Think ive played about 15 games or so of 6th edition, only won 1 (result of opponent stupidity having 2 weak and small troop choices in objective game) and had 3 close games, the rest were turn 2 or turn 3 splatterfests.

It just feels like to me every single toy the orks can bring there is a very common and easy to use counter against it.

I have tried everything except solid green tide lists (aint got THAT many boyz) or buggy/kan walls in a 1500pt game. Every single one just feels like the enemy (necrons, any MEQ, Eldar, or Nids) were built to counter it.

Biker boss with bikes or deffkoptas - something with equal or greater speed charges them first and has a higher initiative, crushing majority of them before they can even strike. Earlier 3 wraiths assaulted my bikerboss + 5 deffkoptas and because of that 3+ invul i did nothing and it destroyed the entire group (sweeping bs)

MANz missiles are obvious and just get blasted halfway across the map, even in a BW, which effectively nullifies them since they cant run.

Trukk boyz are the same issue, the trukks die in 1 hit halfway across the table and due to the small groups they wont last 1 maybe 2 more turns before theyre fleeing like little gits.

Lootas in terrain or in wagons just get stabbed by something that deepstriked.

Deff dreads take too long to get to the other side of the board, and even if i get them there theyre usually alone at that point cuz everything else died already.

Biker nobz are the only thing ive found arent easily countered, but their issue is they have limited targets and attack at I1 or have crappy strength. Basically means that theyre horrible for taking out anything with big melee attacks. But im still forced to try because in a 1500pt game i just simply dont have the points to buy 4-5 nob bikers + painboy, bossbiker, 3 scoring units (usually 20+ boyz footslogging it in the back with shootas), and enough of something with range on it to deal with stuff like Dreadnaughts, Wraiths, or Terminators at a distance rather than up close and personal. Usually my spare points goes into some sort of anti-air since majority of the air i come across shootas/bigshootas cant hurt.

Dakkajets, while painful, have the same issue as bikers. Limited targets. Usually they attack and die since theyre so squishy, and due to the crappy str and ap levels they rarely do any harm except against masses of infantry or AV10-11 vehicles. I havent tried Burnabommas yet but except against Nids i dont see a use for them. Blitza bommas are just the lols (roll a 1-6, youre dead on your own turn).

I seriously feel like orks are gimped. Every other race has so many fancy options at their disposal even for the exact same unit. What do orks have? Feet and wheels. Especially with the heavily shooty gameplay now, both countered easily. What else could i try that would be effective?

well, the thing about ork is that they do in fact need mass of numbers...

I dont play orks, and rarely have to fight them, but when I do have to, my two large fears are in their numbers and their charge range(trukk boyz)

I dont know the codex, but I do know that everyone says KFF is good, and I believe that, extra saves on many boyz is always good. So use terrain as well - your lootas were being stabbed you said, well put them in terrain, at least they hit first when charged then.

I can advise you too look at some lists Miniwargames makes, there is an experienced ork player who has a lot of batreps(good ones) and some tactica vids aswell

hope this helped!!!

Sounds like your packing to many gimmicks in a small force. All the bits listed have their use, but all those in just 1500?
Trukk boys can work great, but you need at least 3 of them. If there's only one Trukk it's easy to take out. You need more targets than your opponent can deal with.
Or bulk up, a mob of 30 boys is very hard to shift. 3 units of them is a serious challenge.

that reminds me of my nids tactics in 5th:

COPY PASTE
if one unit is capable of dealing damage, why not take at least two?
I had about everything double back then...

 HumeyKillar wrote:
that reminds me of my nids tactics in 5th:

COPY PASTE
if one unit is capable of dealing damage, why not take at least two?
I had about everything double back then...

You mean every army dont you?

The only thing I pay attention to when playing Orks are Lootaz. Thanks to Tesla, the rest of their forces isn't worth writing home about :/

Two groups of Lootas with babysitting Grots for tarpit purposes is exceptionally annoying. Stick 29 Grots nearby and spread them out. No deep striking today. You can also intercept and hold up even elite assault squads a turn or two. Not bad for 107 points.

Using PKs on bikers is a good way to thrash the enemy, Green Tide works well if you can afford to buy more boyz. On a 1k list I use close to 74 boyz, and 10 nobz. The benefit of the Green Tide is giving them too many models to kill.

I'd just use trial and error. Keep units in your list that are doing well, and switch out the ones that didn't do as well as you would of liked for a new counter to something you've been having trouble with. I personally love battlewagons so all my lists revolve around them.

My few ork tips are to spread them out, use terrain (remember focus fire rules), and target saturation. If there's an av 14 tank constantly shelling you, send a small mob with a PK in it to distract it. 20 boyz + nob + PK is 135 if I recall correctly.

KFF, Shoota Boyz and Lootaz.

That's your army. Take a core of that and fill in with whatever else you like. Big Gunz, Kanz, Bikerz, MANz, allies, whatever. Good Ork armies in 6th are centered around those 3 units.

The KFF is cheap and gives you basically army wide cover saves, even in the open. Now you don't have to slow yourself down mucking through terrain. Shoota Boyz are cheap and extremely effective, point for point, at both shooting and combat. Lootas are incredible fire support for down infantry, light/medium armor and flyers.

Trukk boyz are really the only old trick of orks that doesn't work in this edition that well. Unless they are only shooting. Well that and kommandos...

Anything else works well, you just have to use numbers, which is what orks do.

I've seen the kult of speed wreck face.
2 Warbosses in mega armor
5 units of 3 MANz (2 as troops), all in trukks
10 boyz in trukk with power klaw nob
2x16 boyz with nob
2 battle wagons.

It's enough power klaws and transports to cross the table and usually do enough damage when it arrives.
Basically everything rushes forward and units that get shot to useless run back to their own side for objectives.

-Matt

One of my buddies plays orks, and he does very well in competitive events.

In his 2k list, he has been bringing two truuks with 5 meganobs in each. He puts the ram that lets the reroll diff terrain rolls, and hides them behind ruins. He will burst through terrain when he wants to commit them and rush them 24" forward. Due to the truuk rules, when you shoot them, they are much less likely to be impacted negativly when you shoot the truuk down. The last time we played, I blew up his truck, and he got out and moved 3" closer to me.

In addition to that, he brings 90 or 120 boys on foot. Those he uses to camp objectives and shoot small arms fire.

He brings 3 squads of 10 lootas each. Usually they are spending their time behind an aegis, in area terrain, or on ruins. When I shoot at them, he goes to ground. While it lowers his shooting hits by 50%, it makes then extremely hard to dislodge with a 2+/3+ cover save. Those are his anti-flyer units.

Between the aegis, and careful placing, he almost always is getting a cover save for his boys. He gives me a hard choice in what to shoot when we play. Do I want to shoot at the lootas sporting at 2+/3+ cover save, or do I want to shoot at the truuks full of meganobs in my face, or do I want to take pot shots and hope to kill more than 10 boys a turn.

Sometimes he brings a unit of grots. He often uses them to just rush forward to get linebreaker or camp an objective.

 juraigamer wrote:
Trukk boyz are really the only old trick of orks that doesn't work in this edition that well. Unless they are only shooting. Well that and kommandos...

Anything else works well, you just have to use numbers, which is what orks do.

As for trukk orks iv'e had good success in sixth, there be some benefits from them... KAREEEEEEEEEEEEM, and the str3 instead of str4 hits you take cuz it's a trukk
But swoshing up 13 inches with RPJ jumping out six and charge 2d6 you got a chanse getting them up.

i normally run a battlewagon in the middle having a KFF to benefit the other trukks that are six inches close to it helped me out allot in both 1k and 1,5k games.

and as said go for atleast 3 trukks or more.

AND GOOD LUCK! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!

Use the following handy dandy Ork flow chart.

But swoshing up 13 inches with RPJ jumping out six and charge 2d6 you got a chanse getting them up.

You can't disembark if you've moved more than 6". So 6" vehicle movment +1" for RPJ, then 6" disembark distance, then your 2d6" charge.

Charging out of an open topped though brings up some questions I haven't thought of. I don't know if you can Cruising speed for 13" (RPJ) then flat out another 12" then charge out in the assault phase. That's 25+2D6" but you lose out on the boyz in the trukk shooting before charging I believe.

I've been running an Ork Biker List in 6th with sucsess but its tricky to use and needs a lot of practice to master. I run mine with Wazdakka and a Biker Boss with Nob Bikers and warbikers as troops and supported by Death Koptas and Lootas behind an Agies.

I haven't run my Battle Wagon army in 6th yet but I think it would preform better than in 5th because no one can get lucky kills against my Wagons from Glancing Hits.

 juraigamer wrote:
Trukk boyz are really the only old trick of orks that doesn't work in this edition that well. Unless they are only shooting. Well that and kommandos...

Anything else works well, you just have to use numbers, which is what orks do.

Except that trukk mobs DO work well in 6th. Infact, better so if you were to ask me. 24 (25 with RPJ if thats your thing...its not mine however) inches of movement on turn 1?! Yes.....many times yes. So turn 1 your 24 inches up the table. Whatever survives, which if you play a trukk list the proper way, should be a few or more, move 6 inches, disembark 6 inches, and then charge with a WAAAGH!. The trukks that DO explode, get ramshackled and personally, I love that.

My issue with the trukks is the groups inside are so dang small theyre never big enough to cause an issue. Orks start running like cowards once mob rule is gone, theirleadership blows and so far ive had rotten luck with BP's (i almost always get sixes with it...lol...which anything higher than a 1 on the other dice is a fail then). Ive tried 4 trukks with a kff with 3 groups of lootas behind. He ignored the lootas, 1shooted all 4 trukks in turn 1 (blood angels), then just sat on objectives where i couldnt see him with lootas. This wasnt even a stupid powerful weapon that did it, it was just troops. That game in particular he had everything but 6 troops (3 10man squads split into 5mans cuz of MEQ bs) in reserves intending to swoop in turn 2. DIdnt even need his 3 fliers decked out with even nastier marines.

Like i said i just feel like everything we can do is countered by things other races bring normally whether they need it to counter something or not. Nids are the only one ive faced that seems a bit evenly matched for orks, but they have the best anti-biker answer (hive guard...oww...) so that forces other tactics.

Ive never taken multiple groups of bikers or MANz missiles because theyre soooo expensive and if im facing something they cant touch well fudge....80% of my points cant shoot something. 5 MANz is 200pts, +45 for RPJ/Ram trukk, ive yet to get them even remotely close to the enemy with a trukk so ive been using BW with atleast somewhat better results since it tends to survive a turn. But now its bare minimum 110pts for transport (BW + Ram + RPJ + 1 Bigshoota).
Still cheaper than 5man painboy biker squads with a couple PKs, but unlike the bikes if the trukk/bw dies the nobs are stuck. I havent lost a single meganob yet because of slow n purposeful...they just get kited after theyre too far to charge something.

Maybe i just have horrible rolling lucks, maybe i am moving my stuff wrong, i dunno but whatever im doing wrong i feel like i cant do anything about it. I play to have fun obviously since im orks, but i would like to at least have a fighting chance not get plastered by turn 2-3.

EDIT: My friend suggested an idea so i built a list around it (hes played since....edition 1 i think lol old timer). He doesnt play orks, but he knows what hes doing nontheless. I tried it last night but i lost to insanely bad rolls after bad rolls so i cant say it doesnt work (double sixes every moral check....really...lol)

HQ:
Biker boss w/ Attacksquig, BP, PK, Cybork, Kombi-Schorcha 155pts (5pt discount on cybork due to Grotsnik)
Maddok Grotsnik 165pts

Elites:
5 Meganobs w/ Cyborks 225pts
In a Battlewagon w/ Ram, RPJ, Riggers, 4 Big Shootas, Boarding Planks 130pts

Troops:
2x12 Shooty Boyz w/ 1 Bigshoota
----Nob w/ PK, BP
All in Trukks w/ RPJ/Ram ... 162pts

25 Shootyboyz w/ 2 Bigshootas 160pts

10 Gretchin w/ Runtherder 40pts
In an ADL with Quadcannon 100pts

FA:
5 Deffkoptas w/ TL Shootas and Cyborks 200pts

All comes down to 1499pts.

The idea is to have the trukks be a meatshield for the BW missile while having bikerkopta group flank the side. Basically 2 very nasty missiles flying at him. The large group of footsloggers is a point dump for objective holders.
Two things made me lose by default with this tactic last night, one being the consistant bad rolls i cant do anything about, the other was the terrain bottle-necked at my end so my forking missiles were next to each other for a turn. Me losing the biker boss and 5 deffkoptas to sweeping advance is what made me call it at turn 2 though (literally 1 wound wasnt saved, on my kopta, i roll 6s on EVERY test even the rerolls with the BP then i roll a 1 on initiative so yea...355pts gone to 1 wound).
Barring the horrible rolls, does this sound like it would even pose a threat?

I have played alot of 6thed games with trukk boyz. Typically, its 2 units of lootas, 2 units of lobbas all behind an ADL, a Biker Warboss with 6 elite Biker nobs, 5 trukk Slugga boyz units and 20 shoota boyz. My trukk boyz are 11 slugga plus a PK, BP Nob, the trukk has a big shoota and reinforced ram (I consider the RR absolutely essential, never leave home without).

I dont use the KFF. Here's why, half, literally half of the time, Im going first which means Im getting the turn one 24 inch move. The other half of the time when I dont go first, 50% of that time itll be night fight. Its easy to use terrain for 25% cover, otherwise I dont need it as Im across the table.

So 75% of the time Im happy, Im either going first or its night fight and Im going second. My worst case scenario is playing for KP's or against Dark Eldar - they can steal on a 4+ and ignore night fighting. Thankfully, neither of these are common as Demons, Necrons and Space Wolves are dominant and KP's are only one of 6 missions.

What I like about the list is that on my 2nd turn, all of my forces are hitting your lines - lootas, lobbas, trukk boyz and nob bikers.
The Bikers Nobs I play as elites because it forces a tough decision. Either they focus on the fast non-scoring hard hitting unit ot they focus on the scoring not-so-hard hitting unit. I stack my trukks to one side or the other, the worst thing you can do is attack across a wide front. The Bikers are sacrificial, though I do protect the Warboss, he bullies units he can get away with.

Which ever trukk unit or two get disabled turn one are tasked with holding my deployment zone OBJ. The shoota boy unit I put in reserve for a later game walk-on OBJ claim.

I don't see how your trukks aren't getting near the enemy. If you flat out on turn one, you're already across the whole damn field! If the blow them up, they explode all over their won troops, and they block line of sight to whatever is behind them. Try something like two wagons and 4 trukks. 50 boyz in your face from the start, and roll them sideways to screen the wagons. Then when he's blown the trukks up all over himself, the wagons arrive and clobber stuff.

Well with that list above...It just feels so small for orks.

Orks are cheap..They are all about numbers. If those are the lists you have been running i see why you are having issues.

For your troops you really want all or nothing. You want either ALL trukk boys or ALL 30 boy strong units. If you have a mix of both its to easy to pick off.

2 trukks is easy to deal with..5 trukks isnt.

I also feel grotsnik is a bad HQ at only 1500 pt game.

You can shave some points with your battlewagon. If you are using it as a transport. Always use a deff roll..the str 10 when you ram is awesome. Also drop a few big shootas..Since it will always be moving..You wont be shooting that much.

Meganobs are cool. I like to use them but you really need to have an HQ baby sit them. Or there bad LD will make them run.


General rule with orks is "boys before toyz" You want a strong core of troops before anything else.

hmm, interesting thought occurred. Since its not disembarking or assaulting, you can use boarding planks at max speed (unless im mistaken) which wouldnt that mean i could deffrolla something then plank it? ive yet to get it close enough to try.

Im trying to avoid the green tide list just because its stale. Its stupid that orks need it to do anything because its just dozens of tiny dudes with almost no punch on their own trekking it up.

Maybe if i just swapped the BW out for a trukk, removed Grotsnik (saving 50pts from cyborks as well as the 165pts from him) and modified the 25boyz to just get as many trukks as i can that would work. Trukk army with a MANz missile behind it, bikerkoper flank.
(I dont consider trukk spam the green tide, but its damn close)

EDIT: We play friendly games, majority of the armies used are unpainted and often theres a proxy. My army is the most painted (bout 70+ models painted atm) and its tiny compared to what these guys have collected lol.
Anyway, this is what i have available to me non-proxy wise:

Regular Warboss w/ PK
2x Ghazghull Thrakas (Bought one resin, got a metal one on ebay by accident when buying other stuff...basically got it for free lol)
Biker warboss

15 Bikers, 4 with PKs, 3 with Bigchoppas, a painboy biker, rest standard. Dont have a WAAAGH banner scrapped up yet but im working on that.
14 lootas and a mek
5 Meganobz

100+ Shoota boyz (dont know exact number, ive fielded 3 30mans and still had some spares)
20-30 Slugga boyz (AOBR, mostly unassembled still)
30 Gretchin 3 Runtherders
5 Trukks (3 unassembled)

10 Deffkoptas
3 Dakkajets (Magnetized so i can use them as any of the 3 jets)

3 Battlewagons

I have the pieces to scratch build some lobbas i just havent done it yet. Havent heard anything good about kanz or deffdreads so ive avoided buying them (proxied them before, sad results). Kopta vs Buggie missile platforms sound more like preferences to me than which is really better, so i havent gotten any buggies.

Honestly I've played my fair share of 6th ed games.

I currently have 1 loss with my Orks and that's to Psychic Choir Nids. It was a nasty bloodbath, and taught me an invaluable lesson.

I will almost always run.
2x12 Boyz Nob/PK/BP (shootas)
3x19-20 Boyz Nob/pk/BP (shootas)
3x Battlewagons (sometimes Deffrollas,always 1xBigshoota)
2x Trukks
2x10 Lootas

HQ's will vary from pt values but in general a KFF Mek
and some type of Warboss.
In lower pts I may drop a trukk squad and ditch a loota here or there to shave some pts.
I've experimented with ADL's +Q gun and gretchen. It works alright but nothing to write home about.
The T1 thrust is more than most armies can handle.

Ya that list is just lacking numbers, 56 guys total is less then two full mobs of boyz. Our survivability relies on target saturation. Your opponent must make a choice and you job is to make sure that no matter the choice it is the wrong one. In your list turn one destroy the 2 trucks and kopters, turn two stop the BW, turn three down the shootas. There are no choices there the target priorities are too easy to make, you need multiple threats.

Vineheart01 wrote:


HQ:
Biker boss w/ Attacksquig, BP, PK, Cybork, Kombi-Schorcha 155pts (5pt discount on cybork due to Grotsnik)
Maddok Grotsnik 165pts

Drop Grotsnik. Saves 160 points, doesn't turn one of your units completely insane, and only costs you the Cybork option on a few units which isn't necessary. Unless you're going to run a biker group, drop the biker boss and make him a Warboss in mega armor and bosspole accompanying your Meganobs. Note that this will be a deathstar unit, and if you lose it probably means the end for you.

Elites:
5 Meganobs w/ Cyborks 225pts
In a Battlewagon w/ Ram, RPJ, Riggers, 4 Big Shootas, Boarding Planks 130pts

I'd remove the Big Shootas and Ram, get the Deffrolla. Consider dropping the riggers as well; riggers work in your shooting phase, that means that you have to go through an entire movement phase not moving either the vehicle or the embarked troops, then take another round of shooting from the enemy, and only then do you get to move. Not a fan. Drop the Cybork because of Grotsnik, and consider combi-skorchas for the same amount of points. Might just be me, but I like lighting things on fire. Up to you though. Note that your Warboss makes these guys Troops.

Second; Lootas! Good Lord Lootas. 9 Lootas at 135. Stick them behind the ADL, let them go to ground if fired on, and snap fire at everything that annoys you.

FA:
5 Deffkoptas w/ TL Shootas and Cyborks 200pts

Change this to 4 Koptas with TL Rokkits. Anti-tank, 180 points, and doesn't need Cybork because of cover saves from movement.

Troops:
2x12 Shooty Boyz w/ 1 Bigshoota
----Nob w/ PK, BP
All in Trukks w/ RPJ/Ram ... 162pts

25 Shootyboyz w/ 2 Bigshootas 160pts

10 Gretchin w/ Runtherder 40pts
In an ADL with Quadcannon 100pts

Ok, starting with the Grots; pitch 'em out. You'll be sticking your Lootas behind the ADL, which brings me to: dropping the quadcannon from your ADL. The lootas who will be behind it will be fine, unless you're facing a Necron flyer list or something of the like. Drop the 25 Shoota Boyz mob. They'll be hitting the enemy too late to be effective, and are an expensive tarpit when you could run a 29 Grot unit for so little if you're leaving them on your side. With the savings from above, you can afford 4 Shoota mobs in trukks, 162 points each.

Obviously there's a lot of play left depending on how you want to evolve the list, but trying to stick with what you have that's what I'd consider.

Now, if you want to go completely over to "what I would do" land, I'd drop the Mega Nobz entirely, run multiple Battlewagons with Shootas inside, and just swamp the board with green-in-red!

Orks are one of the more balanced armies in 6th edition. They can put together armies that can deal with just about anything.

The key to success is the humble Shoota Boy. At 6 points, they are a steal. At 1500, I'd advise something like:

Warboss on Bike with Claw, Cybork, Bosspole-140

5 Nob Bikers, 1 Claw, 4 Uge Choppa-270

4 units of 20 Boyz with Nob/PK-620

10 Gretchen with Runtherd-40

2 units of 10 Lootas-300

3 Big Guns (Kannons) with 3 additional Gretchen-69

Aegis Defense Line-50

Total: 1489

You get a durable shooting base behind the Aegis and a good amount of bodies to push forward. The Nob star is the hammer. Remember, Lootas go to ground for a 2+ behind the Aegis and still snap fire. The Kannons are T7 with lots of ablative wounds. The small Gretchen can easily hide for backfield objectives.

To expand, add Shoota Boyz. A Painboy in the Nobstar is nice as well.

Also dont forget that with trukk mobs, its not 1 trukk per whatever unit youre attacking. Its 2 trukks per every unit youre attacking. That means, youre hitting their units with a x22 mob, that has 2 nobz with PK. So just decline any challenges with 1 nob, and slice and dice with the other, no issues there. Its pretty hard to lose combats with all those attacks AND a PK still.

I also still suggest shoota boyz in the trukks. Same logic as above, just shoot the piss out of the same units until its either gone, or will become a push over.

The thing I like about taking Shoota Boyz over Slugga Boyz is if you decide to only go 13" (with RPJ) you can still snap fire the boyz out of the top and soften up your target for a turn 2 charge and if by some chance your trukks get charged you can kill a few guys with Overwatch.

I also like to give my Nob the Big Shoota even though he can get killed easier than in 5th it adds a few more shots to the group.

 KingCracker wrote:
Except that trukk mobs DO work well in 6th. Infact, better so if you were to ask me. 24 (25 with RPJ if thats your thing...its not mine however) inches of movement on turn 1?! Yes.....many times yes. So turn 1 your 24 inches up the table. Whatever survives, which if you play a trukk list the proper way, should be a few or more, move 6 inches, disembark 6 inches, and then charge with a WAAAGH!. The trukks that DO explode, get ramshackled and personally, I love that.

Thats why my buddy has been bringing 2 squads of MANZ.

He can hide them behind terrain and then slam them forward 24" when he wants to commit them. With a ram, he has a 1/36 chance of getting stuck on terrain. Even if you wreck the trucks, they just ramshackle and don't get hurt much. Then on the following turn you have 8 MANZ plus 2 warbosses in your face.

MANZ are great I even ran the in 5th when people hated them. If your going to run more than one squad I'd recomended taking Gaz as his Waaagh!!! Changes there Slow and Purposful into Relentless so you can re-roll your charge distance dice and sweeping advance the squads you chew up.

Finally figured out where people were getting that 2+ save from with ADLs (+2 behind defense line going to ground, not +1) lol im always like WTF its a 4+ that makes it a 3+. Somethin else ive been doin wrong apparently .

Ghaz is cool n all but hes ~100pts more expensive than a meganob warboss and i dont quite see him painful enough to shuck that many points out.

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.
However, against any army with deepstriking units that have templates or a LOT of dakka, this list is krumped instantly. Which i commonly face. Cant bubble wrap with grots because you can see over them and they cut back on my boyz numbers too.
Which goes back to one of my original gripes - every damn army has some instant transport for something useful...orks dont even have a distraction (kommandos 6+ armor ooo wow)

I was watching 2 friends play (Blood angels vs Necrons) and saw something that i literally dont think i could survive even with bad rolls on his end unless i was specifically built to survive it...thus having little else to use.
4 5man Marines with 2 of them having Lascannons scattered across the field for objectives, two Stormravens flying in with marines stuffed inside, 3 droppods 1 of which had Tactical squads, a Priest, and some random bolters - 1 with a Dreadnaught with heavy flamer and ... lots of other toys i forget the name of - and the third was empty.

Literally the only reason the Necron player survived...for the most part...was because the MEQs attacked Wraiths which have a 3+ invul with most of their attacks (after plastering a chariot and 4 scarabs). I just thought.......aside from a sheer bulk of numbers blocking droppod dumps...i literally couldnt face that because 5+ invul is selective for orks and rarely happen anyway, and he runs some kombi flamers in there in case theres terrain to deal with.
There would be nothing i could do against that aside from green tides and hope my 400000 dice wins first. Talk about stale gameplay. And he could just shoot over the boyz at the lootas i'd be protecting and probably take them out regardless.

My best friend plays orks and his favorite and most used unit are lootas. they wreak some havoc. He also gives all his boyz cybork bodies and whatever that armor is that gives them a better save than 6+. Numbers is an awesome tactic of orks because once they get in and tarpit the enemy shooty units its tough to compete with those numbers

I was watching 2 friends play (Blood angels vs Necrons) and saw something that i literally dont think i could survive even with bad rolls on his end unless i was specifically built to survive it...thus having little else to use.
4 5man Marines with 2 of them having Lascannons scattered across the field for objectives, two Stormravens flying in with marines stuffed inside, 3 droppods 1 of which had Tactical squads, a Priest, and some random bolters - 1 with a Dreadnaught with heavy flamer and ... lots of other toys i forget the name of - and the third was empty.

That list shouldn't be particularly scary for Orks. The Stormravens really don't threaten you unless they are kitted out with Hurricane Bolters (lots of points). Assault based MEQ should also lose the war of attrition. Nob Bikers rip that list hard as well.

If you know the pods are coming and deploy behind the Aegis, that list does little damage and then subsequently gets pounded.

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.

The motto for Orks has always been "Boyz before toys." This is even more true in 6th edition. The game is generally won by taking objectives. In order to do that, you need troops. Luckily, the Orks have perhaps the point for point best troop in the game.

In addition, I don't see why you would say that "footslogging is horrible now." Tourneys have been dominated by lists that have a strong foot presence. In fact, it is harder to run a pure mech list now than running a footslogging or hybrid list. The reason is that the Cron Air force hard counters Razor/transport spam.

Orks are one of the best codices in the game now. They are one of the true "stand alone" dexes that don't need allies. Perhaps you are looking for something different in terms of gameplay. If you want to load up on toys, Orks probably aren't the best.

Vineheart01 wrote:

Cant bubble wrap with grots because you can see over them and they cut back on my boyz numbers too.

Vineheart01 wrote:

And he could just shoot over the boyz at the lootas i'd be protecting and probably take them out regardless.

My memory of the cover rules is a bit fuzzy right now, but if I remember correctly you get cover just by virtue of a unit shooting "through" another one. They can't "shoot over" unless they are physically at a higher elevation (up in a ruined building, top of a hill, etc.) or the weapon in question is indirect-fire capable (i.e. Hive Guard).

If you are having trouble with getting shot off the board too early (which it sounds like you are), you might want to see about getting/making some Blocks Line of Sight terrain pieces or maybe acquiring a Kustom Force Field Mek.

Vineheart01 wrote:

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.

I'm not getting the same impression. Most of the suggestions have been to add more bodies/hulls to make for better saturation, not go for a full blown green tide of 120-180 boys.

For instance, here's your the list from before:


And here is a somewhat heavy modification created based on your list of models:


Now the key thing changed between the two is that the second list presents nothing but fast AV10 hulls for your opponent initially, which makes for better target saturation. The Dakka Jets also offer a bit more redundancy than the ADL and Deffkoptas in that they present 3 different targets that require attention and can do the roles of both while also adding to the overall army saturation. Main thing is you want to have everything require the same sort of weaponry to deal with while presenting roughly equal threat, so that the enemy will have to make hard decisions in terms of what to shoot at a given turn with their limited number of shots (this is the hallmark of the green tide-style list you keep bringing up, the enemy only has so much in the way of anti-infantry weaponry that they can use a turn and high strength anti-vehicle guns have no real viable targets).

As for the issue with limited toys, that might just be due to the point value you and your opponents are at. I myself tend to spend most of my points on troops and essential function units and not much in the way of "toys" until 1700/1850 or so. Might not hurt to ask if you can try a few higher point games and see if it helps your enjoyment at all.

Vineheart01 wrote:

Which goes back to one of my original gripes - every damn army has some instant transport for something useful...orks dont even have a distraction (kommandos 6+ armor ooo wow)

What about Boss Zagstruk with his Storm Boyz? They are one of the few units in the entire game that can assault after deep striking and Zagstruk gets to swing an AP2 power klaw at initiative while doing so to boot.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Finally figured out where people were getting that 2+ save from with ADLs (+2 behind defense line going to ground, not +1) lol im always like WTF its a 4+ that makes it a 3+. Somethin else ive been doin wrong apparently .

Ghaz is cool n all but hes ~100pts more expensive than a meganob warboss and i dont quite see him painful enough to shuck that many points out.

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.
However, against any army with deepstriking units that have templates or a LOT of dakka, this list is krumped instantly. Which i commonly face. Cant bubble wrap with grots because you can see over them and they cut back on my boyz numbers too.
Which goes back to one of my original gripes - every damn army has some instant transport for something useful...orks dont even have a distraction (kommandos 6+ armor ooo wow)

I was watching 2 friends play (Blood angels vs Necrons) and saw something that i literally dont think i could survive even with bad rolls on his end unless i was specifically built to survive it...thus having little else to use.
4 5man Marines with 2 of them having Lascannons scattered across the field for objectives, two Stormravens flying in with marines stuffed inside, 3 droppods 1 of which had Tactical squads, a Priest, and some random bolters - 1 with a Dreadnaught with heavy flamer and ... lots of other toys i forget the name of - and the third was empty.

Literally the only reason the Necron player survived...for the most part...was because the MEQs attacked Wraiths which have a 3+ invul with most of their attacks (after plastering a chariot and 4 scarabs). I just thought.......aside from a sheer bulk of numbers blocking droppod dumps...i literally couldnt face that because 5+ invul is selective for orks and rarely happen anyway, and he runs some kombi flamers in there in case theres terrain to deal with.
There would be nothing i could do against that aside from green tides and hope my 400000 dice wins first. Talk about stale gameplay. And he could just shoot over the boyz at the lootas i'd be protecting and probably take them out regardless.

Yea, hes 125pts over a megaboss with no other upgrades. That means you can have 2 megabosses for less then 1 Ghaz........hes very much not worth it.


Also, the only time you can shoot OVER a unit of boyz or grots, is if the unit being shot at, is on a building or a hill, basically anything that literally puts them OVER the unit being shot through/past.

Hey- I'm not an Ork player. And sorry if this is a little off topic but-

Can someone walk through how a truck can move 25" with RPJ on it? (Or have the orks move 25" with it). My younger brother is also struggling with Orks, but I don't know if he's playing his truck movement right. 25" move seems like it would be a game changer!

You start with a 13" move, 6" disembark, then are you guys using 6" average for assault roll? Can Orks assault after going cruising speed?

Thx

In the movement phase the truck moves 12 inches plus one inch for the red paint job. Because its a fast vehicle it can move another 12 inches in the shooting phase. Total distance is 25 inches.

Ohhh yikes. damn ok i'm still new to 6th. That's outrageous. So any fast vehicles can move another 12" in the shooting phase? I need to read me up some BRB.

Fast skimmers can move 18 inches - 30 inch total movement.

Hey I'm sorry to hear that your having so many issues with your Orks... I've been playing my Orks shortly after 6th dropped and I haven't lost a single game. I tossed up some video battle reports of my games if your interested in checking them out.

I noticed you said that foot slogging is useless now, but hats what I have been doing and quite frankly is amazing. I run 5 squads of 30 boyz, a couple Burma wagons, a MANZ wagon with a Warboss and KFF as well as 2 dakka jets... It's been truly nasty... Have fun watching your opponent kill 150 boyz while dealing with 3 av 14 targets that can cause a ton of pain if they reach the lines... And If they don't... Well then you have your 150 boyz to answer any problems.

I knew when i got orks that the motto was "boyz before toyz" but i just never expected it to be to THIS extent lol.

I refuse to give them up because i have easily $1500+ in models, most of which are assembled and a decent chunk painted. Also i am hoping for a new codex so bad...

Zagstruck....i thought he wasnt allowed to assault as well? Like, i thought EVERYTHING got denied assault from reserves or deepstrike in 6th. I know thats why kommandos disappeared heh atleast in 5th they could go at your rear and assault instantly taking something important out then dying vs just dying.

@Strat - that list looks pretty good to me except i dont see why i'd have grotsnik in that one. To me, having him and a meganob boss with meganobs is a waste because he now forces both a warboss and meganobs to go crazy bloodthirsty-like. Actually he wouldnt fit since you suggested a trukk (5x2=10 +2=12, mega armor counts as 2 units in transports) so he'd just be roaming on foot. Now that sounds even more like a waste lol.
However, i could see a SAG in his place and use excess points to get the extra supa shoota on the dakkajets. I think SAG meks were 95pts without anything but a SAG...aint got my codex handy atm to double check. Or for that matter just take a KFF for added protection on my trukk rush.
Also the comment about adding more units, i dont have the points to add more of anything but boyz thats why im saying it feels like "green tide it or nothing"

EDIT: Oh and for the whole over the grot thing, to my knowledge if you can see my physical body you can shoot over units. I will get a 5+ cover, but you can still do it. I'd rather risk a 5+ cover to take out lootas than waste my shots on a bunch of grots. The benefit of grots for ADLs is also their curse for bubblewraps - short little buggers...

Also i finally got to use Boarding planks for once...thats hilarious when attacking squishy vehicles. Went against an Eldar/Dark Eldar allies list and my BW just drove around popping AV10s with boarding plank attacks. Sadly his psycher bikes whatever they were called were unstoppable with the list i posted.

EDIT2: Also, sorry bout the ragyness of my last posts. Bit heated. I am a little too tired right now to be upset though so im nice and caaaaallm....lol...

boss zagstruk actually has a rule that allows you to assault after deepstriking in exchange for d3 stormboyz being removed as crash landing casualties to answer your one question.

Based off the various types of armys you play I would suggest running a list that I have had great success with:

HQ

wazdakka

Troops

5×6 warbikers w/ nob w/ pk and bp

15 grots w/ runtherd

Elites

7 lootas

8 lootas

Fast attack

deffkopta w/ TL rokkit launcha

deffkopta w/ TL rokkit launcha

you could have the deffkoptas as one squad with wazdakka outflank or just keep them seperate or ditch them altogether for more lootas. Grots are kept in reserve for rear objective camping. Nob bikers are good, but are super exspensive and with the reputation they have since 6ed they will be a high target priority. So far I really like mass warbiker squads cause every bike has a TL big shoota and every squad has a pk that can be delivered to the enemy really fast or you can just avoid the opponent and shoot them to death. Plus their T5 and always have a 4+ cover save

Not a bad idea, i dont have even remotely that many bikes but its just friendly gaming so i can proxy to see if i like it.
Is that two single deffkopta groups? I tried that for awhile but i started to not like it because in the event of each unit or FA unit counts as a point if killed thats REALLY easy points for the enemy if they get caught by something with mad range or deepstrike sneakings. 4+ armor goes away fast, 5+ junk is pretty low.

Another trick you can do with bubble wrap units is controlling where deep strikes can come in and blocking units from coming into effective weapon ranges. This has gotten more interesting with pre measuring.

Anyway try to use the edge of your aegis, backfield terrain and any bubble wrap you have around (if you've decided to be that scared of pods or just want some chaff to GTG and score backfield) to either get any podded marines to have to shoot you through the aegis or to have to land and disembark a decent distance away from your lootas.

My friends used to do this a lot to keep units out of melta range of his expensive short ranged vehicles. It's a little more tricky to manipulate double tap range, but you have a lot of control over the board in your end and tend to feel more safe mucking around backfield so try your best to limit their options.

I'm also kinda totes not convinced that drop pop combat squads and lists full of plinker 1of lascannons and storm ravens are giving buggie orks so much trouble! I can see jumpers maybe being frustrating to deal with if they had FNP well spread out and had some support from ML devastators. I know 3+ saves and a lot of attacks that are mobile enough to pick their battles aren't what orks like to play against, but I really expect orks to swamp combat squads that aren't adequately supported despite the new disorganized charges rules.

i havnt faced that list i just witnessed a necron survive solely on 3+ invuls, which orks dont have at all even HQ wise (Ghaz WAAAGH still cant be turn 1).

I do know i have one major flaw in my tactics, i tend to zoom ahead since im mostly pklaws. I still use terrain if i can, but i usually dont hang back and wait a turn or so because most of time im facing weapons that fire at me anyway. For instance the armor barricade of IG Leman Russes and other long range weapons (lacking names here...). Holding back a turn against that would be dumb cuz he shoots across the board anyway and most ignore line of sight.

Right now im working on my dakkajets since im one of those peopel where when i start working on a project i MUST finish it asap, and since theyre a big part of most ork lists theyre kinda important to get done. Think i'll get to work at finishing my boyz next, since im fielding headless support-armless shooty boyz for about 1/3 of the boyz i use lol (easier to paint).

And yea i'd have to agree about the swamping the tactics. Even if i lose furious charge cuz i hit both groups, im still sending 50+ boyz at 10 dudes lol. But what would i do about the stormravens? 20-25 lootas split into 3 groups would hit it hard yea but odds of me taking out both before they cause an issue...sounds risky..theyre AV13 in the front arent they? Or am i horribly mistaken lol

flaming tadpole wrote:
boss zagstruk actually has a rule that allows you to assault after deepstriking in exchange for d3 stormboyz being removed as crash landing casualties to answer your one question.

Based off the various types of armys you play I would suggest running a list that I have had great success with:

HQ

wazdakka

Troops

5×6 warbikers w/ nob w/ pk and bp

15 grots w/ runtherd

Elites

7 lootas

8 lootas

Fast attack

deffkopta w/ TL rokkit launcha

deffkopta w/ TL rokkit launcha

you could have the deffkoptas as one squad with wazdakka outflank or just keep them seperate or ditch them altogether for more lootas. Grots are kept in reserve for rear objective camping. Nob bikers are good, but are super exspensive and with the reputation they have since 6ed they will be a high target priority. So far I really like mass warbiker squads cause every bike has a TL big shoota and every squad has a pk that can be delivered to the enemy really fast or you can just avoid the opponent and shoot them to death. Plus their T5 and always have a 4+ cover save

This is OK, but the biggest problem is this list would fold incredibly fast in combat. Specially to any army that can spam power weapons, which is every single Imperial or Eldar type force out there. But it would be pretty damn fast and all those bigshootas would do some nice damage thats for sure.

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
In the movement phase the truck moves 12 inches plus one inch for the red paint job. Because its a fast vehicle it can move another 12 inches in the shooting phase. Total distance is 25 inches.

They cant disenbark that turn though

Vineheart01 wrote:
that list looks pretty good to me except i dont see why i'd have grotsnik in that one.

When I put the thing together, I was trying to keep the same general gameplan as the first list you presented but with more target saturation, so I left the super MANz unit intact (I assumed you had Grotsnik in the unit for FNP and Fearless - since it now confers to the entire unit if one model has the rule) and just downgraded their transport to add more AV10 saturation (didn't think to check if MANz used up more transport space... ). Thanks kindly for the compliment though, glad you liked it!

Now wiithout needing Grotsnik and his MANz and in keeping with the thoughts you gave, perhaps this might be better?


The Meks and their runts both go in the Grot unit and huddle behind the ADL (ideally in such a way as to let them hold an objective) while everything else operates as prior. I swapped the Quad Gun for com. array, since it lets you have more control over your Dakka Jets and I didn't have quite enough points left for a quad after squeezing in everything else... I wasn't sure what to do with the very last handful of points, so I just put RPJ on the Dakka Jets, could probably use those elsewhere.

I would suggest shoota boyz. A mob of 30 with 3 big shootas and NO nob is 185 points. X 6 = 1110 points.

That is 180 bodies.

Something I have noticed is many Ork players do not realize how insanely good Big Gunz are. 3 cannons are only 60 points. The cannon is T7, 2 wounds and Armor 3. The cannon is the Orkz toughest unit and makes the gretchin crew T7 to gun fire! (sadly T2 to assault). The cannon is range 36, str 8 with ap3. Or frag away. Basically a BS 3 missile launcher.

3 x 3 cannons = 180.

So 6X30 Shoota boys = 1110
3 x 3 cannons = 180.
Add in Big MeK with KFF = 85
Leaves you 125 points for whatever.
Add in an Aegis or drop a group of boys and add in 3 x 5 lootas, whatever your flavor.

at 1500 points trying to kill off almost 200 models could be a challenge.


I would recommend a mix of lootas and kannons backed by boys. If the lootas are behind an aegis line they are hard to kill. The mass of boys provide bubble wrap.

Exalbaru wrote:

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
In the movement phase the truck moves 12 inches plus one inch for the red paint job. Because its a fast vehicle it can move another 12 inches in the shooting phase. Total distance is 25 inches.

They cant disembark that turn though

And? Youre 24-25 inches up, with the typical deployment zone being 12 inches, you WILL be at that line if possible. So really, you start 12 inches away from a 48inch table width. Then move 12-13 inches, then flatout another 12. So ince you moved 24 inches and started 12 inches up, your threat range is really 36inches in 1 movement phase. So even if your opponent wrecks or pops the trukks, you ramshackle and have a decent chance of good things happening for you. If not, then you move 6 inches on turn 2, disembark and charge. Youve more then covered the table by turn 2

The nice thing about storm ravens is that they don't really kill cheap things too effectively and they don't score or anything.

I guess they could be carrying something that scores, or a blender dread... that would be something to worry about, but then he's got some expensive ass investment there and hopefully you can either make it a poor investment by not letting it do enough damage over it's turns to be effective or to just swamp it.

3++ is neat, but I don't know why you are having such problems with wraiths... when I use them I don't think of them as a deathstar or a hammer unit unless they come with a destroyer. I tend to think of them as competent but mainly survivable grabber/harrier units. think of them as 12 assault marines that your power claw wont quite work against and you'll see that the 3++ and rending and initiative modifier are kinda a waste vs a billion boyz. Like 45 points for what comes down to about the survivability of 2 marines isn't amazing. Wraiths are kinda like wyches, they make other enemies investments in killing power kinda wasteful and are great at killing small isolated units or tying up ones you want to stay back or eventually hit with a hammer.

I guess I'd want to be dedicating 2/3 groups of units per target if I were you. I guess that can be hard to coordinate with buggies blowing up around you but it tends to be doable from my experience.

He is running them with a destroyer, forgot to mention that.

@Strat
Cut off 4 Grots, since the whole group gets instapasted by most things that gets them behind that ADL anyway, take off RPJ on the jets and put big shootas in each trukk. A big shoota is a powerful boost for 5pts, 1 per 10 orks. Aside from that...looks promising...
Doesnt comm relay only effect reserves? Would improve chances to get the dang things in the game though, which is important. 3 jets WAAAGH'ing is better than 1 at a time not WAAAGH'ing cuz im tryin to get all 3 lol.

My issue with Big Gunz is with the exception of the Lobba their range stinks. We play on a 5by6 board, usually having plenty of tall terrain too. 36' is the same reason i dislike looted wagons, by the time they can fire theyre so close they can be picked off by a random big weapn i didnt see coming.
How can i not see a big weapon coming? Easy, i dont know other races too well to spot them and MEQs have a bad habit of having a very nasty gun in pistol-appearance.

Reviving post:

Just pushed my hatred for orks even further today. Played 2 games against Nids at 1500pts, both games i felt like i was just waiting for the game to end.

First game:


Second game


Like what the feth? I contributed my first dozen or so loses to me being a newb, but now that i know something of the game i realize its not me its the game. Literally every damn race has something that by default walks over orks that is easy to apply to the game. And it seems like every single answer to these counters is numbers. Well numbers dont mean jack if whats killing you is impossible for you to hurt with 80% of your army.

Not even having fun anymore. I cant even make it to turn 5. Everything either instapastes me, backstabs my elites, shoots as much if not more dakka than me on better BS, or i straight up cant touch as it walks over me. I love this game and i especially love the crafting/painting of your army (hence why i picked orks as they look the coolest) but whats the point in playing if its damn near impossible to even have a fighting chance let alone win? I dont ask to win every game, i ask for a decent match and an occasional win.

How the hell do you people win against a remotely competent opponent?

If you're losing as bad as you say, I'm starting to think your opponent is cheating you. Take some time to look thru some codices perhaps

CYBORK wrote:
If you're losing as bad as you say, I'm starting to think your opponent is cheating you. Take some time to look thru some codices perhaps

It is possible, depends on how well you know him. I've had people try to slip in extra points, claim rules that didnt exist (i was playing SW and this guy i met at FLGS and didnt know I played DE too which is what he had and claimed all his wyches had wychknives which is fleshbane and armourbane) If something feels fishy I'd politly ask to see the codex

The problem h orks is getting caught up in the shiny bits and dodads... Just make it real simple, are you better off taking a Nob with a PK and boss pole or 8 boyz with shootas? Are you better off taking a MANZ or 7 boyz? In most cases, unless you have an absolute need for something, you are always better off with boyz.

Now the problem with boyz is they are unwieldy when en masse and a real pain time-wise to go with a pure green tide.

I have found 3 trukks and 3 battlewagons (at 1500-1850) with a KFF mek gives you the best combination of speed and ability to charge - at worst - on turn 2.

Yes trukk boyz are a tad small but hit him with 2 or 3 trukk boy mobz and he won't feel so healthy. 20 man boyz mobz coming out of wagons seems to be a healthy number to hit a target on its own but it is obviously stronger when it hits enmasse.

The decision when doing a trukk rush army is do you go with burna boyz or lootas. Personnally I like lootas and perhaps a grot unit to cover it and provide a back area objective holder. Dakka jets could substitute for this.

BTW when I am talking nobz, I am talking nob units or MANZ units... you always want the nob in a unit of boyz.

Vineheart01 wrote:
Like what the feth? I contributed my first dozen or so loses to me being a newb, but now that i know something of the game i realize its not me its the game. Literally every damn race has something that by default walks over orks that is easy to apply to the game.

How the hell do you people win against a remotely competent opponent?

If you think that orks are the problem try a different army.

I want to give you a heads up, if your playing against people who have been doing this for a long time, they might just be better players too. It takes a long time to become really good at this game. There are tips to becoming good at it, but their not army specific.

 labmouse42 wrote:

Vineheart01 wrote:
Like what the feth? I contributed my first dozen or so loses to me being a newb, but now that i know something of the game i realize its not me its the game. Literally every damn race has something that by default walks over orks that is easy to apply to the game.

How the hell do you people win against a remotely competent opponent?

If you think that orks are the problem try a different army.

I want to give you a heads up, if your playing against people who have been doing this for a long time, they might just be better players too. It takes a long time to become really good at this game. There are tips to becoming good at it, but their not army specific.

Indeed, it took me over a year before I won my first game(and that was playing twice a week)

You have to hang in there, and skill is a major part of it.

It is kinda a hard truth sometimes. There are several components to winning games, the army, the list, and the player.

You can't really blame the army, Orks are pretty good right now. Sure there are some races that are having some trouble, but not Orks. They have a good flier, great troops, great heavy hitters, and a big advantage in that Snap Shots don't hamper them as much as other armies (proportionally).

The list, people have been giving tons of help there, I won't go into it more. The strengths of Ork lists have been outlined. If you want to take a list style that isn't a strength of the Orks (lots of toys), then just be sure you know you're going in with a handicap.

Last is the player, which is also the more important aspect to winning games. For some people it can take a long time to become a good player. You can't expect to just make a good list, throw it down, start moving stuff around and automatically win half your games. Your opponents are also trying to make good lists, and put a lot of thought into keeping you from winning. You have to practice and put lots of thought into different situations and tactics. It sounds weird, but running through hypotheticals in your head helps you prepare for future games.

My recommendation... Start reading as many tactics articles as you can. Deployment. Movement. Gaining Cover. Ideal Assaulting. Shooting Priority. Playing the Mission. Adaptation and Decision making. There are a ton of aspects to the game that you need to be proficient at before blaming the army.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
My recommendation... Start reading as many tactics articles as you can. Deployment. Movement. Gaining Cover. Ideal Assaulting. Shooting Priority. Playing the Mission. Adaptation and Decision making. There are a ton of aspects to the game that you need to be proficient at before blaming the army.

Excellent advice.

We all start out new at something man. It takes a long time to get good. You also learn more from losing than winning.
This is what I ask myself after any game I play -- especially if I lose.

1) Could I have deployed better?

2) What caused me the biggest problems?

3) What did I do that caused problems to my opponent?

4) How could I have done better on the mission?

5) Did I get sidetracked from the mission?

Break out your smartphone and take pictures of your games. Look at them later and think about them again, and what you did.
I've been playing this game for years. have won more than one tourney. I still ask myself those questions every time I lose. I still take pics and reflect on my games.

Even when you lose, you need to go over the game in your head, point by point, and talk to yourself about how and where you should improve next time. ALWAYS. Even when I win a match, for all of about 5 minutes Im glad I won. Then after that, its back to the same ol grind
Where did I mess up?
How can I improve?
What should I change next time?

Now Im not saying you should pick yourself apart on every single little thing, but these are nice questions to help build your skills up

What model do you like the most? When you ask your friends, do they hate playing against it? Buy lots of that.

And boyz.

And lootaz.

Orks by their very nature are spammy creatures. They find something they like and get a lot of it. Do the same.

Also, don't over-analyze your strategy. If you're having a hard time making a decision, just do what an ork would do and it either turns out good or ends up hilarious. For example: recent apocalypse game, I shot my shokk attack gun dangerously close to my stompa that only had 1 structure point left. I rolled "Oops!" and my opponent instead centered it on my Stompa. The scatter put it back on the models I needed dead. Gork and Mork favored my brashness and they will favor yours too!

I'd make sure to debrief after each game, asking my opponent what they think I did wrong, what I could have done to stop particular attacks from affecting me, etc...
A good player, and friend for that matter should be happy to help you get better. If they wont, I'd find new playing partners since they obviously just want to win, and not help.

If you face monstrous creatures with high toughness bring poisoned weapons. Orks don't have many but they do have them. Pain boys wound on 4+ regardless of toughness.

Just going over your games, i think it probably would have been better to focus your lootas on his hive guard. They are basically the nid's lootas, just fewer but stronger shots. However, if i remember their stats right, a good blasting with lootas should be good enough to take out most of the teeth of hive guard, seeing as they only come in threes. Every loss hurts a whole lot.

EDIT: also, remember that flying monstrous creatures can be grounded by small arms fire. Force it to ground with mass shoota fire at first, then chew it up with pks, or moore accurate loota shooting. Also remember to double assault them with boyz squads or single with nobz or manz. You can't let your pk get challenged, so bring more than one!

CYBORK wrote:
If you face monstrous creatures with high toughness bring poisoned weapons. Orks don't have many but they do have them. Pain boys wound on 4+ regardless of toughness.

Painboyz would be the only place we get them. And normal boyz kill MC just fine


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think short of detailed battle reports, or actually witnessing it via youtube, we honestly cant help you much farther then what has been posted. Just saying you lost badly doesnt really help us help you

 KingCracker wrote:

CYBORK wrote:
If you face monstrous creatures with high toughness bring poisoned weapons. Orks don't have many but they do have them. Pain boys wound on 4+ regardless of toughness.

Painboyz would be the only place we get them. And normal boyz kill MC just fine


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think short of detailed battle reports, or actually witnessing it via youtube, we honestly cant help you much farther then what has been posted. Just saying you lost badly doesnt really help us help you

Well... there is *pause* THE GROT PROD!!! *lightning & thunder*
Except... why would you?

Their are a lot of ork armylists that got a little bit of everything but the truth is:

1: footslogging doesnt cut it anymore because their are better rapid fire weapons , overwatch and a lousy assault range when charging true terrain.
2: Battlewagons are better then trukks but 1 will not cut it...get 3!
2: loota's are your best units...get them!!
3: shootaboyz are better then sluggaboyz.
4: Nobbikers cannot use their wound allocation trick anymore so are not that good. a few of them (with boss) dont cut it and a big unit gets to expensive.

My kind of list:

Mek with KFF and powerclaw
warboss with mega armour etc..

10 gretchins with runtherd
10 gretchins with runtherd
20 shootaboyz with Powerclaw Nob and 2 big shoota's
17 shootaboyz with Powerclaw Nob
20 shootaboyz with Powerclaw Nob and 2 big shoota's

10 loota's
10 loota's
10 loota's

battleweagon with rpj, extra armour, 2 big shoota's and deffrolla
battleweagon with rpj, extra armour, 2 big shoota's and deffrolla
battleweagon with rpj, extra armour, 2 big shoota's and deffrolla

defence line

about 1700 points.

loota's go behind defence line and mek with warboss go in (middle) Battlewagon with 17 shootaboyz. 3 battlewagons with KFF protection go flat out first turn (18 inch) and possible assault turn 2..

quote (Painboyz would be the only place we get them. And normal boyz kill MC just fine)

I was talking about his T8/T9 problem where boyz can't do anything.

Is there a T9 beasty in the game (outside of FW/APOC..not sure about them right now) ?

Only T 8 left that i recall is the Wraithlord.

This is what I ask myself after any game I play -- especially if I lose.

1) Could I have deployed better?

2) What caused me the biggest problems?

3) What did I do that caused problems to my opponent?

4) How could I have done better on the mission?

5) Did I get sidetracked from the mission?

This. After EVERY game, we always sit around and discuss what each of us did well/poorly. My opponents say things like "geeze that lootaz unit WRECKED my blah... but what were you doing with that shoota unit over there? They did nothing all game!"
Constructive criticism is a key point to becoming better at this game; it’s taken me nearly 2 years of lurking on these forums and learning about mathhammer, target priority, target saturation, cover, deployment, tactics, strategy, rules, codices and other important aspects of the game.
To paint it a little differently:
Since the thread started, you've approached the advise with an open mind and made some worthwhile changes, and from what I can tell you have played 2 games and came very close to winning 1 - that sounds like you've started travelling down the right path.
Read the other codices and learn what their army can and cannot do. Talk to people at your FLGS and watch some battles while you paint. Read battle reports posted here. Play more games.

Most of all have fun. There isn't a player on this site that still doesn't get their rear-end handed to them on a plate from time to time. It's what you can take away from the battle that will help you in the next one.

I'd say lootas are the main fear for my opponents. The few games i got where i wasnt relying on them they were like WOOOO. Im still scratchbuilding more of them, im up to 14 atm im still proxying with big shootas lol.

Against Nids i felt like what i needed to do was ditch the trukks, max out my boyz and lootas, and just sit there going "Come at me bro" since i usually have better range than he does. Not my style though, i think that then i dont do it cuz i seriously want to charge forward even if its a bad idea lol.
That first game was Purge the Aliens - it quickly made me not like trukks cuz that was 5 EASY points for him since trukks are usually 1shotted. Against what he brought and what i brought, i'd have to literally wipe him out to win (since points mean nothing if i got EVERYTHING killed).

Question though...if lootas are so powerful how do people bring dakkajets then? getting both is wayyyy too many points, and it seems like dakkajets are just harder to avoid since they basically have table-top range with their movement + guns. I ask cuz i have 3 dakkajets, love the model, cant seem to use them right without having a major flaw in my army (usually strength limitations, since Str6 cant take out much armor or high toughness).

Also on the poison note: Every poison weapon is a Character. Monstrous creatures are still characters, so he just challenges me and i do NOT want that fight as i dont even have enough attacks to kill it let alone survive to my turn. Grot prods would be about it, but if i had a monstrous creature seeing a mass of grots heading for me i'd try my damnest to sidestep that group cuz that would take forever to get out of that tarpit.
Grotsnik: Has a Pklaw so hes I1 and is chaotically insane so i cant control him.
Painboy: Any MC would plaster him before he got a turn.
Runt herder: Tarpit...avoid it NOW! (Granted i think it would work if i actually got them with it).

As for the model i like the most comment: i'd say Meganobz because theyre strong as hell, look awesome, and are hard to take out. Problem is they just dont move lol. The most i'd do in a 1500pt game is 2 groups of 4 split apart enough so i could cover more ground. As i said before my friend keeps trying to have me bring 10 in a BW cuz he thinks theyre nasty as hell - i see that as a kiteable deathstar.

Friday (for me, im in korea so thursday for most in the states) im going to play another game maybe 2. Not sure who im playing since it sounds like a party not a 1on1 match heh. I'll try to keep accurate track of whats going on and get pics so i can give a good battle report. Think im going to try the mass of lootas and shootas with some MANz camping around and just go "come at me bro" this time. EDIT: The reason my flag keeps changing is because if im at work, its an american flag since im military. At home it says korea.

EDIT2: I dont know if theres anything higher than T7 outside FW models, however his Hive Tyrants/Flyrants were using a spell (endurance? forget which) that adds a dice roll more toughness and strength. Think it was a D3 but not 100% sure on that one. It passes long as he doesnt roll higher than 10 on 2D6, then he rolls another to see what it does. Hes usually Str8/T8 instead of Str6/T6, sometimes gets lucky and goes to 9. Thats where my main issue came from, the Tervigons n such i know i can just mob down.

Nids can give my all comers list a problem sometimes one thing I have learned is to send my MANZ at the tervigon if my opponent leaves the opening I have taken them out several times on turn 2. Reason I send them there is the initiative 1 and stopping the free troops they are getting. I plan on losing some but if I get the charge it is usually dead and then my opponent is more worried about the remaining mega nobs than they are my lootas or boys. Flying MC's are a pain for my dakka jet and can take it out but I do try to fire my small arms at them to ground them before I shoot anything big at them and charge em if I have a big enough unit. If the unit nearby is a smaller one I might not charge it as there is a good chance of them getting wiped and I would be better off using them to ground it again in the next turn.

Kremlin wrote:
Read the other codices and learn what their army can and cannot do. Talk to people at your FLGS and watch some battles while you paint. Read battle reports posted here. Play more games.

When a new codex comes out, I make it a point to try and make army lists with it. I think to myself 'were I playing this, what would I do"

Often Illl even proxy a game with my friends. It does not matter is we use 'orks as eldar' or 'blue wolves'. Were testing to see how the new army plays.

Kremlin wrote:
There isn't a player on this site that still doesn't get their rear-end handed to them on a plate from time to time.

If your not gettting you arse handed to you every now and then, change where you play!

One of the biggest problems is getting stuck as 'the biggest fish in the little pond'. If your playing at your FLGS and always winning, you find a new place to play some games.
Check out some of the bigger tournaments like NOVA or the Bay Area Open. You might be really suprised at how much fun to you have and how much better your game gets.

Only reason i havent proxied an entire army with my orks to try another race is i think thatd be confusing as hell lol

Heya Vineheart, I just read through the thread and there's a couple of things that I can add here that have helped to my success with 6th ed Orks.

I had the same problem you're having now and I've gone from a pure mathhammer game to a bit of a shooty game and I owe it to these two units:

1 Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun (stick him with a squad of 11 or 12 boyz in order to soak up casulties and make sure it's in ruins so that he's got a good field of fire and be sure to leave other units away from them. If you're unlucky enough to roll snake eyes on your STR roll for the shot, there goes everything within 6" of him).

and if you have to do any kind of footslogging across the board:

20 Shoota Boys with 'Eavy Armour (1 with a Big Shoota and 1 Nob with a Big Shoota). This gives them a 4+ save and with Mob Rule, they're fearless. I've taken out entire units on Overwatch with them just because my opponent didn't want them assaulting him on the next turn. Their 'Eavy Armour gets them a decent amount across the board if need be and if an objective is in ruins or some other piece of terrain, so much the better!

Mork and Gork have faith in you! Have faith in them and the glory of the WAAAGH!

Ehh...could give it a try. Im usually against heavy armor because that adds up fast on points and in my experience 4+ is nothing. Majority of weapons pen it anyway.

SAGs are awesome though i'll give ya that.

I'd also say no to orks in eavy armor. The best part of boyz is that they are cheap. Eavy armor gives you very little gain for a lot of cost.

I don't know about the exact math of ork lists, but I can see the utility of 4+ armor orks from a BA perspective. It makes them much more survivable in HTH and cover becomes very good for them, as nearly all "ignores cover" weapons don't pen 4+. The 4+ armor squad would really throw off my target prioritization scheme I use for orks. But if it takes away too many points from the list, I wouldn't do it.

Majority of *heavy* weapons penetrate it, but not regular flamers and small arms. I don't know. Try it and see.

It's a 66% increase in price per boy. Makes them as expensive as firewarriors.

The cost increase isn't so bad if its one unit of truck boyz.

But a unit of 12 ard Boyz is no harder to kill than a unit of 24 regular boyz. Assuming you don't break their armor. And there are plenty of weapons with AP4 out there.

If I were making a unit of Boyz Ard, I would make them 20 strong and riding in a Battlewagon.

If i were against the local necron player i would take some 'ard boyz for the sheer fact he LOVES his tesla guns. He usually has so-so results with them against me, but 6+ rarely saves more than 2-3 out of 10 wounds or more lol. Otherwise no point. Just from my Nob having it i learned theres too many AP4 out there to bother. Now, if AP was it must be betterthan the armor youre piercing, it would be damn good as then only larger weapons would pen that (or the typical 1 per squad weapon). MEQs tend to have a crapton of AP4 so forget that.
I dont even take it on my Meks or non-mega armor warboss because if theres any big weapons out there, pretty sure it can pen 4+ and WILL be aimed at my bosses. Meks are usually screwed if it ever is needed anyway, and i dont think ive ever ran a bikeless or armorless boss before.

 DieselJester wrote:
1 Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun (stick him with a squad of 11 or 12 boyz in order to soak up casulties and make sure it's in ruins so that he's got a good field of fire and be sure to leave other units away from them. If you're unlucky enough to roll snake eyes on your STR roll for the shot, there goes everything within 6" of him).

its cheaper to add grotz instead of boyz. A lot of people forget to take a ammo runt. You really want that reroll once you got the right strength for the right enemy unit.

Same here, when I have the SAG out, he has a runt everytime. Its always paid for itself.

Aight, i think i found my issue. Its 1500pts.

I tried to piece together a loota camp lineup with some MANz in the middle to provide something scary to vehicles or tougher units that get close. Problem was i couldnt get the list out without cutting my boyz or my lootas (so NO WAY). So we went to 1750, and i ran this:



Went against Space Wolves drop pod army, so i just spread my boyz all over the place with the MANz in the middle so they could reach which side the drops landed that had the bigger threat. 23 Lootas along with the SAGMek and his Gretchin meat shield sat behind the ADL and a trench while the Kannons sat behind/next to that.

Granted, he bought frost axe termies, so my list was a bit favored since i had a turn of free 100+ dice throw at the 2 groups of 5 termies and blasts at the third group of regular marines with kombiflames and a ... ughhh forgot the bosses name he had a very annoying line attack that made you roll initiative tests.

After i took out the termies and most of his third group he called it cuz all he had left was 2 large troop choices footslogging it. Turn 3.

I say i think my problem was mostly 1500 because, thinking back, i always felt like i had a major flaw in every army being either 1) not enough toyz to make that toy worth it or 2) not enough boyz. It was always either my toyz did nothing, or i had no boyz. This list...damn that feels rock solid.
If i didnt want to camp out i could just ditch the kannons and MANz and get some BW for my 20shoota boyz, ditch the third 20man for nobs with klaws, and get 3 dakkajets and another SAG instead of the meganob boss.

Yea, think im going to avoid 1500 if i can. The closest i could get with a list like this was ~1550, which cutting that 50 hurts really really bad.

Thanks for the help guys, and sorry i got heated a few times.

Just remember, if youre wanting nobz with powerklaws, MANz are that but much better saves and cheaper for a PK platform.



But congrats on your win, sometimes you just suffer because of the game size

I wanted the MANz rather than nob pks in my shootas because they always get challenged out anyway, and most things i dont want to fight. MANz arent characters, the warboss is but you really wanna challenge him? lol unless you have hella good rolls or a LOT of hits you arent winning that challenge.

Grats on the win! The Waaagh is Proud of ya!

So i had an idea today when i learned that even if my psykers had their own abilities i could replace that for ones in the book. Aside from me making 2 fatal mistakes, it worked beautifully.

15 lootas with a Weirdboy sitting within 12 inches with the Divination power Prescience. This gives those 15 lootas twin-link shots provided i dont botch my leadership. Stick him with either grots or lootas and his leadership is 10 so he usually passes.
I failed because of deployment, but that aside it was AWESOME. Those 15 lootas were scaring the everliving crap out of my necron friend since i was landing 60% or more of my shots on average.

I think im going to keep doing that lol that was hilarious. Yea the weirdboy was kinda wasted space otherwise, but 55pts to make 15 lootas twinlinked? Yes please.

Sadly weird boys can't roll for powers from the book codex powers only

Vineheart01 wrote:
I wanted the MANz rather than nob pks in my shootas because they always get challenged out anyway, and most things i dont want to fight. MANz arent characters, the warboss is but you really wanna challenge him? lol unless you have hella good rolls or a LOT of hits you arent winning that challenge.

Against some armies yes. But the Boss is pretty easy to kill in others. Sides Im sure a Guard player would rather sacrifice a lowly Sgt. then let a boss tear ass through his platoon

 KingCracker wrote:

Sides Im sure a Guard player would rather sacrifice a lowly Sgt. than let a boss tear ass through his platoon

You charged my blob with a killy IC? Cool, I have 4 sergeants to sacrifice. So yes. People would challenge the Warboss. Heh, I remember once I challenged Mephiston, the sergeant managed to survive a round. That was som awful rolling on Meph's part.

Exactly my point. 1 Death vs 6

Sinji wrote:
Sadly weird boys can't roll for powers from the book codex powers only

Wait where does it say this?

Vineheart01 wrote:

Sinji wrote:
Sadly weird boys can't roll for powers from the book codex powers only

Wait where does it say this?

Thats not how it works. You must have permission to roll for the rulebook powers, not something that specifically says you can't.

Is there any place that gives orks permission? No, there is not.

Never found anything saying i need permission, and since i only own ork codex ive never read another race to see "Pick from the big rule book" or something like that.

Terrific, find something awesome and its illegal. Gogo idiotic codex

Idiotic codex that was written in 4th edition, long before the current magic crazyness, and that can STILL hang with new codices? Sure bud, idiotic

In the 40k rule book there is a list of races get to use what powers. It also has them listed in the FAQ's. Its fluffy for orks to not get any of the rule book powers because orks get there powers from Waaagh!!! not the warp.

I'm imagining Phil Kelly wrighting the new ork dex. The power of Waaagh!!! will instead of giving fleet for a turn generate Waaagh!!! tokens that will instead give speacial abilitys each turn in regular Phil Kelly Style. If its Ward all Orks will be T8 and have FNP for 3pts per model and will be able to kill Titans single handedly. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'd be pouring through my BRB right now if i wasnt at work, but i found a FAQ in my backpack for some reason. It says nothing about whether he can or cant take BRB spells. I admit since i previously thought he couldnt i only skimmed over Psykers in the BRB so their rules arent very strong in my head atm, but the only thing i remember it mentioning that the ork codex doesnt say is his mastery level (which would be one since he can only cast 1 spell a turn, its just random which one)

This is a permissive rules set. You must be told you can do something for you to be able to do it. The rulebook isn't a list of can'ts, Its a list of cans. If its not listed in the rules, you can't do it.

Just to be clear, each codex that is older than 6th edition will tell you what disciplines your codex's psykers may choose from. Alternativly, there is a handy reference card that comes with the Psychic Cards that GW sells.

Eventually, as codices get updates, they will tell you themselves what disciplines you can take.


Right now, Orks only get their own psychic powers and I forsee it staying that way.

Lame....i think giving Lootas twin-link is way better than any spell from the Waaagh.

Meh loota lines still nasty even without it.

EDIT: Got off work early and started reading the BRB and FAQs regarding psykers.

In the back of the book and the section on Psychic Powers, it says nothing about which race can have what powers. The BRB FAQ says nothing list-wise either. In fact, the ONLY thing i found was:

Q: Can psychic powers be mixed and matched from the psychic
disciplines and those found in the Codexes? (p418)
A: No. You may select from the psychic powers listed in the
Codex as normal or swap them for a number of rolls on the
psychic disciplines tables.

In the 40k rule book there is a list of races get to use what powers. It also has them listed in the FAQ's. Its fluffy for orks to not get any of the rule book powers because orks get there powers from Waaagh!!! not the warp.

Nothing sounds like a list you were talking about Sinji. As Grey Templar said i still cant since i dont have permission to (Nids FAQ states very clearly they can do it, for example), but please dont throw rules or charts at me that dont exist.

EDIT2: On a side note, do Weird boyz take Warp damage for double 1s and 6s? Seeing as how its not from the "warp"

They are a psyker yes?

Vineheart01 wrote:
Lame....i think giving Lootas twin-link is way better than any spell from the Waaagh.

Meh loota lines still nasty even without it.

EDIT: Got off work early and started reading the BRB and FAQs regarding psykers.

In the back of the book and the section on Psychic Powers, it says nothing about which race can have what powers. The BRB FAQ says nothing list-wise either. In fact, the ONLY thing i found was:

In the 40k rule book there is a list of races get to use what powers. It also has them listed in the FAQ's. Its fluffy for orks to not get any of the rule book powers because orks get there powers from Waaagh!!! not the warp.

Nothing sounds like a list you were talking about Sinji. As Grey Templar said i still cant since i dont have permission to (Nids FAQ states very clearly they can do it, for example), but please dont throw rules or charts at me that don't exist

Does this list help it was in a White Dwarf not the main rules

I've been running a Battlewagon with Nobz and a Painboy, 'Ard Boyz in trukks, shoota boyz on the ground, with 300-450 points of Kanz (2 or 3 units of 3 with Rokekts)

130 points for a Dakkajet with stuff. I don't lose many games.

I like to take a Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun and camp some grots on a backfield objective (20 grots for 80 points and 95 points for the mek is a pretty effective unit with a 60" range)

Personally, I think that the Ork Wierdboyz abilities are far cooler than that in the BRB. But that's just me. Seriously: Roll a 6 and you get an extra WAAAGH! in addition to your normal one, even if it's on Turn 1? That's a lot of ground you can eat up with your footsloggers should you so choose.

On another/similar note; has anyone ever ran Old Zogwort? Is he even worth fielding?

If you are going to run a Wierd Boy Zoggy is a decent alternative.

But don't his ranged attacks auto-miss because he has BS 0?
Or did they fix that?

I believe its because of how Wierdboy powers are resolved. They just happen. The "shooting attacks" automatically hit so I think that overrules the automiss from BS0.

I can't recall at the moment, but i believe there was a FAQ stating otherwise. But whatever, i think most of my local players will agree on the stupidity of it and allow him to use his powers..

A buddy of mine plays orks and uses a kan wall in front of a green tide supported by bikes, KFF and /or a looted wagon with boom gun. It's quite effective.

Psykers are a leadership test to see if the power goes off and then its a D6 roll for the opponnent to "Deny The Witch". If the roll is unsuccessful then they Psyker just auto-hits. Lord knows I've been nailed with enough psyker abilities over the past month (I hate Necrons and their Zoggin' Mind Shackles BTW...)

So it's like Grey Templar said; the BS0 is really irrelevant in this case.

Although another question: Does Old Zoggy still get the Wierdboyz psyker abilities in addition to his special rules? The Ork Codex is a bit fuzzy on that.

I believe so. His Squiggy power isn't a psychic power IIRC. Its just something he can do once a turn.

Vineheart01 wrote:
I wanted the MANz rather than nob pks in my shootas because they always get challenged out anyway, and most things i dont want to fight. MANz arent characters, the warboss is but you really wanna challenge him? lol unless you have hella good rolls or a LOT of hits you arent winning that challenge.

A lot of ork players fear the challenge but the forget you can only challenge/except when your "engaged". When I use my 3 battlewagons to rush towards the enemy I got the next units in the middle battlewagon:

-KFF-Mek with powerclaw
- warboss with mega armor
- 17 shootaboys with Powerclaw Nob

First turn flat out 18 inch and second turn I unload the orks in a conga-line with all the powerclaw characters somewhere in the middle. Normal shoota boys assault and characters stay back and dont get engaded so no challenge. With Fleet (waagh) you can alter your assault distance. Enemy got first Initiative step (most times) and moves 3 inch. Ork shoota boyz get their Initiative Step and move 3 inch. Then all powerclaw characters move in and have to get within coherence/engaged! At this time I got 13 powerclaw attacks that will precision strike with every 6 to hit!

Its tricky because it all depends on the Initiative values, terrain, overwatch, charge distance, etc..

Correct me if I'm wrong but only 1 challenge can be issued per combat regardless of how many turns it takes to resolve or if it is accepted. Would this work as a tactic for a Nob in a unit of boyz:

Charge and don't issue challenge. If one is issued deny challenge, don't fight with Nob, then group back into the fight and swing away with PK in subsequent assault phases

Seems like it would be effective especially with his I1 pile in move. Against most opponents you can stick around as long as you have 10 boyz left due to fearless (If you start with 30 you usually have way more). After this point your Nob can come into the fray and start Klawing away (staying at 2" from a B2B model also ensures he won't get knocked out from closest-to-closest casualties either)

On another point raised here, Warpheads are great as a secondary HQ. I play 1 at 1850 with my 2 Dakka Jet list and that extra Waaaagh is so worth it. Additionally, Ere we go is an excellent high-risk/reward power used with 25-30 Boyz that can be used to steal objectives, take linebreaker etc. I've done it a few times now and it's easier to pull off than a lot of people think, you just have to make sure to run and spread out after you land.

Concerning Zogwart I had asked this earlier on here and the tyranid faq was pointed out
Q: Can a Tyranid Broodlord (which has BS 0) use a witchfire psychic
power that doesn’t require a roll To Hit? If not, is he able to re-roll the
psychic power because he cannot use it? (p40)
A: No to both questions.
I think the weird boy powers are withfire as well I think Ol Zogwart needs and FAQ entry.

Oh another point for Warpheads, don't have my Dex with me but I believe Zap state it hits automatically, does this make it crazy powerful against flyers or is it barred from shooting at flyers specifically because it doesn't roll to hit?

Barred from hitting.

pepe5454 wrote:
Concerning Zogwart I had asked this earlier on here and the tyranid faq was pointed out
Q: Can a Tyranid Broodlord (which has BS 0) use a witchfire psychic
power that doesn’t require a roll To Hit? If not, is he able to re-roll the
psychic power because he cannot use it? (p40)
A: No to both questions.
I think the weird boy powers are withfire as well I think Ol Zogwart needs and FAQ entry.

Yeah, but the additional confusing notion about Zogwart is that on page 61 of the Ork Codex it has the special rule of "Warphead" listed for him. Roll back to page 36 for the Warphead Rule for Weirdboyz and it states that "Warpheads have more control over their powers than other Weirdboys. Each turn, a Wierdboy that has been upgraded to a Warphead may re-roll the dice to see which psychic power he uses"

So that tells me that A: Zoggy can use all of the Wierdboys' psychic powers and B: that Frazzle and Zzap do not require a BS roll as both abilities state that "if in range, that unit is automatically hit"

Either way, Zogwort does need more in the FAQs or GW just needs to release a new Ork Codex.

pepe5454 wrote:
Barred from hitting.

Why would Zzap be barred from hitting fliers? its not a template or an attack that follows the ground, its just a heavyduty zzzzap of energy. Frazzle would be barred cuz that is a blast, even if it is also autohit. It does say the unit is hit, not a model, but its still not a template. (Rather annoying these conversations happen when i dont have my books handy lol)

Also @Sinji - Sorry, i dont have a whitedwarf so i never looked in there for that list. I only have a photocopy of the dakkajet stuff from a friend.

From the BRB faq
Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

 DieselJester wrote:
(I hate Necrons and their Zoggin' Mind Shackles BTW...)

you mad, bro?

Well gotta admit even if it is a chance to get zzap it would be a free flier kill. Str 10 would devastate most fliers without even trying, and give a ravenwing one hell of a scare (and usually take it out too)

wfischer wrote:

 DieselJester wrote:
(I hate Necrons and their Zoggin' Mind Shackles BTW...)

you mad, bro?

LOL. Yeah, I got a squiq with your HQ's name on it, mindshackle boy...

But back to the conversation at hand, So psykers can't hit flyers (laaaaame.... ) but they can still wreak havoc with other units from the looks of things. Might be beneficial to run a Weirdboy in future games.

 DieselJester wrote:


So psykers can't hit flyers (laaaaame.... )

Actually... psykers can't use psychic abilities that would "fire" a template, that's clear. But what about non-template psychic abilities?

pepe5454 wrote:
From the BRB faq
Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and novas.

as stated earlier. it says or, not and, so if it autohits it wont work

They only ruled it that way so people still buy their pretty planes instead of us saying "Yea those are cool, but a Librarian can murder it so nevermind"

Sounds logical to me (OMG! Logic in 40k?!?)

I cant think of any spell that does damage that isnt a template or a line effect that wouldnt obliterate a flier lol. The only ones that come to mind with low strength are nova or line effects anyway.

So if you get a mysterious objective and toss a 3 ¨skyfire nexus¨ your unit can choose to use skyfire or not.. does that mean you can use the auto hit on a flyer?

phatonic wrote:
So if you get a mysterious objective and toss a 3 ¨skyfire nexus¨ your unit can choose to use skyfire or not.. does that mean you can use the auto hit on a flyer?

Unfortunately, no. We still have the BRB FAQ that states: "any attacks that use blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them."

So Autohitting Psyker abilities still cannot target flyers regardless of the mysterious objective. But that's ok. Fielding a Wierdboy/Old Zogwort still has the potential to screw with opponent HQ and other units. I'm planning on pairing him up with a SAG MekBoy as my 2nd HQ choice on my next game to see how that turns out. Should be interesting.

 KingCracker wrote:

Vineheart01 wrote:
Finally figured out where people were getting that 2+ save from with ADLs (+2 behind defense line going to ground, not +1) lol im always like WTF its a 4+ that makes it a 3+. Somethin else ive been doin wrong apparently .

Ghaz is cool n all but hes ~100pts more expensive than a meganob warboss and i dont quite see him painful enough to shuck that many points out.

While all these comments are helpful, i still feel like i must result to green tides to even attempt to win. Which is what im trying to avoid because theres no fancy stuff going on with it. Even at 1500pts, max boyz would eat about 800-900 of it if i ran them in BW + Trukks (since footslogging is horrible now) and that pretty much leaves me to 1 additional toy, which would be lootas and maybe a SAG.
However, against any army with deepstriking units that have templates or a LOT of dakka, this list is krumped instantly. Which i commonly face. Cant bubble wrap with grots because you can see over them and they cut back on my boyz numbers too.
Which goes back to one of my original gripes - every damn army has some instant transport for something useful...orks dont even have a distraction (kommandos 6+ armor ooo wow)

I was watching 2 friends play (Blood angels vs Necrons) and saw something that i literally dont think i could survive even with bad rolls on his end unless i was specifically built to survive it...thus having little else to use.
4 5man Marines with 2 of them having Lascannons scattered across the field for objectives, two Stormravens flying in with marines stuffed inside, 3 droppods 1 of which had Tactical squads, a Priest, and some random bolters - 1 with a Dreadnaught with heavy flamer and ... lots of other toys i forget the name of - and the third was empty.

Literally the only reason the Necron player survived...for the most part...was because the MEQs attacked Wraiths which have a 3+ invul with most of their attacks (after plastering a chariot and 4 scarabs). I just thought.......aside from a sheer bulk of numbers blocking droppod dumps...i literally couldnt face that because 5+ invul is selective for orks and rarely happen anyway, and he runs some kombi flamers in there in case theres terrain to deal with.
There would be nothing i could do against that aside from green tides and hope my 400000 dice wins first. Talk about stale gameplay. And he could just shoot over the boyz at the lootas i'd be protecting and probably take them out regardless.

Yea, hes 125pts over a megaboss with no other upgrades. That means you can have 2 megabosses for less then 1 Ghaz........hes very much not worth it.


Also, the only time you can shoot OVER a unit of boyz or grots, is if the unit being shot at, is on a building or a hill, basically anything that literally puts them OVER the unit being shot through/past.

No other upgrades? I mostly play against Necron and Grey Knights and let me tell you, not being insta killed is amazing. Ghaz can't kill himself from MSS in one round if he's at full wounds and fails his inv save (which he can make 2++ at ANY time) and he can't be force weaponed down. Sounds pretty good to me.

So a megaboss will get instakilled over Ghaz. And? Its still 125pts cheaper, not to mention if your boss is in assault with a Lord with MSS, then its your own fault for him tasting his own PK. Think of what you can take with that EXTRA 125pts. Thats a WHOLE squadron of buggies WITH rokkits and enough to give a BigMek a burna. Thats a x5 unit of lootas with 50pts left over. Thats 20 boyz. And so on and so on and so on. Much better in my book, then not worrying about randomly being ID

The megaboss is 125 pts cheaper if he doesn't have an inv save, no bosspole and no attack squig.

The first post of yours I quoted said Ghaz is 125 pts over a normal megaboss (has to be bare bones for that to be true) with no other upgrades. That's wrong.

If you want to spend your points elsewhere, please do, but Ghaz isn't totally worthless just because you don't like taking him.

I like Gaz and aside for the cool fluff behind him he can cut through a Termie mob solo on his Waaagh!!! turn and he can make all the boyz fearless for an entire round which can be worth the extra points.

Aslo while were on topic a warboss with Mega Armour, cybork body, boss pole and attack squig comes in at 130 points and is only 95 points cheaper than Gaz as still has one less WS and W and only gets 1A on the charge and is not Immune to ID not to mention he can't make all the da boyz fearless, all Meganobs Relentless giving them the ability to Overwatch, Run and sweeping advance for a full turn and making hos 2+ save into a 2+ invo. These extras alone are a steal for 95pts. Oh and did I mention Gaz has a big shoota not some crumby little shoota leave that to the boyz.

its not about him being worthless its about his cost vs effectiveness. Hes not much better, but damn near twice the cost

Its not what he does personally but what he can do to the rest of your force. He is really dependent on what the rest of you force can do. So if Gaz is with an army that he doesn't have any mojo with him he will suck. If used right Gaz can be a devistating force multiplier.

Vineheart01 wrote:its not about him being worthless its about his cost vs effectiveness. Hes not much better, but damn near twice the cost

This is correct. To put it in a better, simpler point of view. Which is better? Lootas? Or FlashGits? They can both essentially do the same things to transports, and are able to mow down troops rather nicely. Everyone will most certainly say Lootas, because they cost so much less. Now if FlashGits and Lootas were the same points the argument would very much be harder, because one has a 48inch shot, but those shots are D3, so very random, and an AP that usually goes nowhere. Now the other has a 24inch shot, so 30inch threat range, but always has 2 shots and a random AP, so if you roll AP1 or 2, youre not only ignoring all armor saves, but youre popping transorts even easier.

But they arnt the same, one costs MUCH much more then the other and so is ignored readily. But because we are talking about Ghazzy, its somehow different? If this were 5th, I wouldnt argue, he was a wrecking ball with an excellent special ability. Now hes just a wrecking ball. That costs twice as much as a slightly less heavy wrecking ball, that still brings the building down.

Sinji wrote:Its not what he does personally but what he can do to the rest of your force. He is really dependent on what the rest of you force can do. So if Gaz is with an army that he doesn't have any mojo with him he will suck. If used right Gaz can be a devistating force multiplier.

And this not really. Ghaz doesnt really need to fit into an army build, he really will just smash anything in his way, thats not what Im arguing about. Now I wouldnt suggest slogging him, so a ride is pretty much mandatory, but we wont add that to the cost of the guy because a megaboss also has to have a ride. But either way, regardless of the army build, Ghaz will fit in just fine and kick some major ass. But the question needs to come down to "Is his ass whopping worth that much more then a normal boss?"

And sure you can argue that he is immune to ID and that his save is INV on his WAAAGH! Yes those are nice I spose, you dont have to really worry about what hes going after. BUT! those wont always save you. What if someone easily ties him up in a challenge? Then what? They have wasted your turn that you probably called the WAAAGH! on and now they can ignore his armor just as easily as my MegaBoss. And ID you only have to worry about if you dont pay attention to what youre attacking. If youre the type to blindly jump into assaults and such, then yes take Ghaz, because you obviously cant clearly think past 6inches.

The point isnt that Ghaz sucks compared to a standard MegaBoss, the point is, he is only slightly better than one. You take Ghaz, and Ill take a Stock MegaBoss with whatever extra points I have left in other units and such, and Id bet Id beat your 1 Ghaz everytime.

and that's provided that you even take a warboss. There are other HQ choices out there that can stand in as a warlord and be even more effective. Big Meks, for example.

Agreed. Hell I very rarely ran a Warboss in 5th, it was BigMeks pretty much exclusively. Though now Id probably only take a SAG Mek anymore, as the Warboss (thankfully really) has taken its place at the front of the horde again

A neat trick is to attach the Big Mek with SAG to a squad of MANZ so he move and shoot. If you don't believe me check the rules for Slow and Purposeful.

Sinji wrote:
A neat trick is to attach the Big Mek with SAG to a squad of MANZ so he move and shoot. If you don't believe me check the rules for Slow and Purposeful.

Interesting tactic, but I personally wouldn't want to run the risk of rolling snake eyes and get the "Boom" result. Knowing me and dice that'd be what would happen and suddenly there goes all of my MANZ.

Kind of like how I finally rolled double 6s on mine in a game, and naturally it landed on.....a bike. 1....lowly bike

Sinji wrote:A neat trick is to attach the Big Mek with SAG to a squad of MANZ so he move and shoot. If you don't believe me check the rules for Slow and Purposeful.

What would be the point though? He has a 60inch range...unless youre in a cityscape i dont want him moving around anyway. Have to admit i'd rather have MANz than Grotz being a meatshield but thats an expensive as hell shield for a random weapon. Every time ive fielded him ive had what 3 spots i couldnt shoot at, all 3 of which either bad cover in avoiding the rest of my army or too far to do anything anyway?

KingCracker wrote:Kind of like how I finally rolled double 6s on mine in a game, and naturally it landed on.....a bike. 1....lowly bike

I have had insane luck with double 66s on my sag, but then i scatter off the board and the ammo runt didnt help lol. So annoying!!!
Contemplating not even taking one anymore. Every time i roll good, i miss .

Eh, I'm still fielding the Mek with the SAG just to make my opponent sweat at the possibilities of me rolling boxcars! Not to mention a 60" range means that practically no one is safe on the table. Last game I got a good scatter on him and wiped a Necron transport off the map (made him go boom! when I rolled a 6 on the Vehicle Dmg table) and wound up taking out half the unit next to him in the result!

Oh yea even the possibility forces my opponent to deal with it. Even if i dont roll double 6s, roll a 56, or double 5s it still on average hits pretty damn hard provided i dont miss.

It did win me a game having that AP2 on there too. I centered it on a space wolf captain that dropped in with a bunch of kombi suckers. Rolled Str8, missed, Ammo runted a bullseye and took out the entire group except 1 remaining wound on the captain lol. He was NOT happy.
On the flip side ive had it make me lose lol.

Ran against Grey Knights and i had 2 SAGs. Turn 2, both of them rolled double 1s. I literally wiped out 2/3 my army on my own rofl. Damn you SAG!!!

Yea the SAG is aces in my book. It makes craters where troops once where, regardless of what type of troops, they are just no longer there. And when your luck is just right you can murder some vehicles as well. My best anti vehicle hit was there were 2 riflemen dreads side by side thanks to terrain and how I was moving my army. So I had already blew a hole in a bike squad the previous turn, so they werent a threat, and decided what the hell, and fired at one of the dreads. It scattered just enough to hit both, I rolled a 9 for str and ended up blowing BOTH dreads up in 1 shot. It left me with a smile

LOL, The first game I ran my SAG I rolled snake eyes and vaped my Mek and most of the Shoota Boyz mob he was rolling with!

*edit, it was the very first shot of turn 1 as well

Yea that sorta happened to a local new guy wanting to play orks. I leave my painted and unpainted orked in the cave (thats what we call our game room, its locked so we leave our stuff there a lot. I usually bring my unpainted stuff home) so he can play with them.

Turn 3 he was against Nids and in a 50-50 situation. I suggested use the SAG first since the only thing in sight is also in sight by the rest of your army. He rolled snake eyes and dominated half his lootas, the mek, and the grot meatshield rofl. I just look at him and go "Oops, i shouldht have suggested that"

I have only taken SAG twice both times got double 1's on the first shot. Never taken it since.

That was the same reason I never used lascannons when I played Chaos many moons ago. I couldnt hit ANYTHING with them. Total waste of points if I had a lascannon

 DieselJester wrote:
Eh, I'm still fielding the Mek with the SAG just to make my opponent sweat at the possibilities of me rolling boxcars!

That's cute. Aint nobody afraid of your lil pop gun, sonny.

wfischer wrote:

 DieselJester wrote:
Eh, I'm still fielding the Mek with the SAG just to make my opponent sweat at the possibilities of me rolling boxcars!

That's cute. Aint nobody afraid of your lil pop gun, sonny.

Yeah, so then why were your Necron Warriors in so much of a hurry to kill him after you blew up his ride, eh?

 DieselJester wrote:

wfischer wrote:

 DieselJester wrote:
Eh, I'm still fielding the Mek with the SAG just to make my opponent sweat at the possibilities of me rolling boxcars!

That's cute. Aint nobody afraid of your lil pop gun, sonny.

Yeah, so then why were your Necron Warriors in so much of a hurry to kill him after you blew up his ride, eh?

To prevent him (the last model in range) from contesting the objective.

Just heard a rumor that Ward is working on Orks so it will probley be really overpowered and the fluff will be completly stupid and destroy everything that has been said in past codex's.

Yay Go Team Ward!!!...........Not

With hope, he doesnt make them so broken they turn into the next Necrons where every single strategy they got is viable without really trying.

I want strats to be EASIER not foolproof, big difference. Doesnt matter what your list is you should still be required to pay attention to whats near you so you dont run Terminator equivs into something rippling with AP2 or better.

Orks aren't bad off at all. The only army I can see Orks having huge problem against is IG with AV 14 spam, and Grey Knights. Our lack of reliable high strength is our biggest weakness. We have pretty fair counters to most everything else. This is just my experience / opinion though, assuming you're playing a beer and pretzels type of game. A min / maxed Necron Air Force or something else may just destroy us, but I haven't played anything like that so I wouldn't know.

Any idea when the 6th Ed Ork Codex is due to be out? I heard that rumor too, just not who's writing it.

Any idea when the 6th Ed Ork Codex is due to be out? I heard that rumor too, just not who's writing it.

So far on the horizon that it isn't really worth mentioning. All the rumors point to a pre-play test stage at best. In GW terms, that's a long time.

With hope, he doesnt make them so broken they turn into the next Necrons where every single strategy they got is viable without really trying.

I want strats to be EASIER not foolproof, big difference. Doesnt matter what your list is you should still be required to pay attention to whats near you so you dont run Terminator equivs into something rippling with AP2 or better.

Necrons are the top dog in 6th, but throughout this thread you have constantly underestimated Orks. Seriously, they are one of the best codices right now. They are one of the few that can stand alone without allies. They also make incredible allies.

Obviously, you can't throw a bunch of MSU truck boyz together with SAG Meks and a handful of Flash Gitz and expect to have a competitive army. However, just because you have "bad" and "uncompetitive" choices in your codex doesn't mean that codex as a whole has a low power level.

A core of:

4x30 Shoota Boyz with Nob/Claw
10 Gretchen
3x10 Lootas
Aegis Defense Line

is 1400 points

You can still get 600 points of thrills. This list can go toe to toe with anything Necrons throw at you.

Orks are still in line behind tau, eldar and crusaders in terms of needing a new codex. Really, we ought to be behind tyranids considering how much they need it and how much we don't, but because 'nids are 5th ed, it probably won't go down like that. You never know though. Here's a prayer that Kelly writes the codex and does as well as he did the first time.

Rumours are that:
Kelly has done Eldar
Ward has done Daemons
Cruddence is doing Tau
Ward is on Orks
and Kelly is starting on BT

However these are rumours and I'm no expert

Nids are suppose to geting a WD update like Daemons got

Also rumor is that orks 6+ save is to be replaced with a 6+FNP to show how tough orks are. Does that spell enough Ward for you. Grrrrr

I still thinks orks should have higher Str and Toughness than the standard imperial guard trooper... but that brings up all sorts of game balance issues. 6+ FNP is okay, but the standard 5+ would be better. If they bring the ork codex up to the standards set in the CSM and DA codices just released (warlord traits specific to the army/ IC's, lots of customization options, more units viable in some capacity) I'd be happy.

Sinji wrote:
Rumours are that:
Kelly has done Eldar
Ward has done Daemons
Cruddence is doing Tau
Ward is on Orks
and Kelly is starting on BT

However these are rumours and I'm no expert

Nids are suppose to geting a WD update like Daemons got

Also rumor is that orks 6+ save is to be replaced with a 6+FNP to show how tough orks are. Does that spell enough Ward for you. Grrrrr

6+ feel no pain? if combined with a 6+ armor save and the boy stays the same cost. Yes.. that is ward and over all balanced.

maybe if they get a init boost in addition to it. ward would be working his magic.

The old codex if you rolled equal to or less than the number of boys in the squad everything doubled its Inititave. I'd love to runs boys with I4, Nobs with I6 & a Warboss with I8 again. That would be SWEET!!!!!!

In saying that I'd definatly be running stikk bombs on a lot of things if that was the case

 Wingeds wrote:
I still thinks orks should have higher Str and Toughness than the standard imperial guard trooper... but that brings up all sorts of game balance issues. 6+ FNP is okay, but the standard 5+ would be better. If they bring the ork codex up to the standards set in the CSM and DA codices just released (warlord traits specific to the army/ IC's, lots of customization options, more units viable in some capacity) I'd be happy.

They DO have STR and Toughness higher then a guardsmen. Always T4 and STR4 on the charge. Thats pretty fluffy really. And I dont get how a 6+FNP would make Orks unbalanced. Its a 6 lads.....a 6. Thats like saying "I dont take plasma because of gets hot" Id be happy with Ward writing our dex. He CAN write some incredible dexes, like the current Marine dex is so balanced its kindda unbelievable. Granted, he also screws them up as well....so hopefully we get a nice balanced dex with some flavor in it. And by flavor I dont mean bro fisting Necrons

6+ FNP by default would be nice if its completely free on top of the 6 armor. Two chances to roll a 6 if you have no ap (which, as i face a lot of necrons, is a lot of dice hehe) is fine by me. Even if it replaces armor it would be a slight buff because we'd always have the 6+ save...even if it is just a 6

Yeah, but if everyone got FNP, then what good would Painboyz be anymore?

cuz the painboy gives nobz 5+... maybe a 4+ or some new rules?

 KingCracker wrote:

 Wingeds wrote:
I still thinks orks should have higher Str and Toughness than the standard imperial guard trooper... but that brings up all sorts of game balance issues. 6+ FNP is okay, but the standard 5+ would be better. If they bring the ork codex up to the standards set in the CSM and DA codices just released (warlord traits specific to the army/ IC's, lots of customization options, more units viable in some capacity) I'd be happy.

They DO have STR and Toughness higher then a guardsmen. Always T4 and STR4 on the charge. Thats pretty fluffy really. And I dont get how a 6+FNP would make Orks unbalanced. Its a 6 lads.....a 6. Thats like saying "I dont take plasma because of gets hot" Id be happy with Ward writing our dex. He CAN write some incredible dexes, like the current Marine dex is so balanced its kindda unbelievable. Granted, he also screws them up as well....so hopefully we get a nice balanced dex with some flavor in it. And by flavor I dont mean bro fisting Necrons

Yea, on the charge. From reading a few books you'd think their base STR would be higher and then more on the charge. But you've got to have balance, and a Space Marine seems to be the measuring line for every other race or unit. I'm not complaining XD. I love my orks and I like them how they are, hordey and shooty. It just struck me as odd that they had such similar stats to a guardsman.

Quite frankly im surprised the boyz statline is so good for the cost, my issue was never their toughness or strength it was always getting there or not having the toyz be worthless. Since we rely on numbers, our toyz are always pointless without expelling a lot of points on them which cuts on boyz. Finding the balance is the problem.

Anyway

I think if they gave all orks 6fnp and didnt buff the fnp from the doks to be a 4+ i would never take the painboy again. 30 pts on top of the normal nob cost (20 + 25bike cost) for 5+ instead of a 6+ and that model is basically worthless except for the fnp since hes insta-challenged and doesnt want to fight anything.
That or give him some other rule, like on a 4+ when a nob dies he can reanimate them for a turn or something else silly lol. Actually i think that would be quite nasty....put the zombie orks in front so if they die so what theyre gonna go away anyway.

well if you want to see a bunch of rumors, there was this a while ago:

As long as orks have an MC or two in the next dex I'll be happy, perhaps an awsome looking armoured troll and then an even bigger one with like 10 wounds (or a squiggoth). Also you should be able to strap stormboy rokkit packs all over them to make them flying, and then roll every turn to see if they fritz out and catapult you across the map.

Heavy 20+ gatling gunz would be nice too, especially if you can put them on your MC's.

Bleh, aint got my earbuds and work computer sucks so cant really listen to that, have to try at home tonight.

However i was at least able to understand the Belcher thing. That would be hilarious and possibly be a great hidden missile like MANz usually are - keep them hidden away till turn 3-4 then go chargin at somethin.

EDIT: Have to agree i hope we get a MC of some sort, but more along the lines of a squiggoth i think is possible.....or a gargantuan ork that ate some Weirdboy concoction. Every MC i come across is insanely hard to deal with and often my only luck is relying on the low amount of swings on most of them and just tarpit the damn thing (Tyranids...) while a couple i dont even wanna get close (Tyrants) cuz they lay waste to squishy things en mass.

Would be awesome if we could get a squiggoth transport lol...15 models T6 4 wounds with the options of a trukk with 2 weapons instead of 1 would be cool. Would be slow since its a 6inch move, but a hell of a lot more durable and the boyz in it can fire out too.

Haha or maybe we could have a dakkajet carry a squiggoth and a squiggoth carry a trukk of boyz! and instead of having to hover to unload the dakkajet will just drop them like a missile!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
with a possibilty of them detonating like a nuke when they land!

It would be nice to give us some kind of flier that lets just drop a group of orks WITHOUT the deepstrike or infiltrate rule so they can still do what orks do best - krump somethin. Even if they took D3 wounds per 5 models (allowing armor) to say they didnt roll when they hit the ground, i'd definately do it with a MANz missile rofl (they'd still have to scatter, though, and i'd see some funky rule for that roll since it isnt a deepstrike)