They treat FLGS like . That, and the ridiculous cost of their products now, is annoying.

That being said...I still collect and play.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

You're, of course, assuming that if GW does go under, they don't ask an outrageous sum when people try to buy out and save their product. Let's face it, it would be typical MO for GW.

I also recently came into news earlier today that GW is intending to cut product to FLGS's: basic lines only, no more individual models or anything outside of the basic lines. These will also only be granted to partnership stores, game stores that sell GW product but aren't partnership stores will no longer be able to get product from GW. I won't list my source, sorry guys, so don't ask. I trust the guy quite a bit, but it still sounded outrageous to me, so take with a pinch.

Can a public company going under do that? Would they not be forced to get what they can for it and share that among the investors before dieing?

Also the FLGS thing sounds like typical GW, they want to control supply and get everything to you directly because 'online retailers are freeloaders' and all that jazz (also it's my understanding they sell to 3rd parties for 75% oc the RRP, they rather sell to you for 100%).

The remaining investors would demand the sale of the IP to recoup losses by the company folding. I've not heard of a public company going under and not selling it's IP to someone. Like when a judge forces a couple that is divorcing to sell any property that they refuse to give up and both demand ownership.

If GW PLC holds the IP and that entity ceases to exist, it's holdings must be transferred somewhere.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

You're, of course, assuming that if GW does go under, they don't ask an outrageous sum when people try to buy out and save their product. Let's face it, it would be typical MO for GW.

I also recently came into news earlier today that GW is intending to cut product to FLGS's: basic lines only, no more individual models or anything outside of the basic lines. These will also only be granted to partnership stores, game stores that sell GW product but aren't partnership stores will no longer be able to get product from GW. I won't list my source, sorry guys, so don't ask. I trust the guy quite a bit, but it still sounded outrageous to me, so take with a pinch.

Can a public company going under do that? Would they not be forced to get what they can for it and share that among the investors before dieing?

Also the FLGS thing sounds like typical GW, they want to control supply and get everything to you directly because 'online retailers are freeloaders' and all that jazz (also it's my understanding they sell to 3rd parties for 75% oc the RRP, they rather sell to you for 100%).

Too be honest that's standard operating procedure for most producers to operate on at least a 50% mark up if they can get away with it. My last job we took orders to design clothes for high street brands, and generally if we paid the Indian producers £1.50 (And lets not forget they made a profit too) for a garment we'd get paid £4-5 for it and it'd go onto the high street at around £10-15. I would not be surprised if the manufacturing cost of a tactical squad of marines is about £2.

 Peregrine wrote:

Because GW going out of business is a good thing for their games. The IP and existing games/communities are too valuable to be left to die, so when GW finally goes out of business someone else will buy everything and hopefully do a better job of running things.

You mean like how Disney bought Lucas Arts and Star Wars?
We will see how good thing turn that out to be...

I am surprised that GW has not been bought by now, seeing how entire company and it's investments are worth only around 300 million Euros.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

Because GW going out of business is a good thing for their games. The IP and existing games/communities are too valuable to be left to die, so when GW finally goes out of business someone else will buy everything and hopefully do a better job of running things.

You mean like how Disney bought Lucas Arts and Star Wars?
We will see how good thing turn that out to be...

I am surprised that GW has not been bought by now, seeing how entire company and it's investments are worth only around 300 million Euros.

Because they are barely profitable for how much it would cost to acquire them. There are far more lucrative investments out there. It is far cheaper to wait for a company to fail, buy it and then fix it, rather then buy it running and trying to fix it.

 -Loki- wrote:

almostreal wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

almostreal wrote:
Why do people who explicitly say "The sooner GW goes out of business the better" care enough to even post? if I don't like something I don't participate...like I don't buy GW glue anymore, but I don't make threads about it.

because disliking Games Workshop doesn't necesarily mean you dislike Warhammer 40k or Fantasy. It's quite possible to enjoy the games, fluff, models, or anything else about the games themselves and dislike the business decisions GW is making.

it's kind of like saying you don't like Lebron James, but you like the points he scores...right? you can dislike the guy but enjoy what he brings to the table. Ok, that kind of makes sense.

At the end of the day though...Liking Lebron means you have to take the bad with the good. If you enjoy the points, you have to accept the man. Like dude said above, you can't say "I hope Lebron falls in a hole, so that someone else can score his points and play his game that I like better". Well, nobody can play like lebron...GW isn't perfect but they are responsible for creating and expanding the hobby. You can't have your frosting if you don't order the cake fellas.

Bad analogy, because if he dies, then he's no longer playing.

Games Workshop have IP that can, and very likely will, live on if the company dies. They might get bought by a company which treats their customers better, which is what people hope for.

Of course, they could also get bought by a company that treats it worse than GW themselves. I personally just wish GW would do a managment changover and keep their current studio.

I guess I just don't get it, I consider GW a company that makes table top games and mini's. You want the games and mini's but want it to be a different company, without one I don't think you can have the other.

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby and all of the background and is making alot of money, which allows them to continue to make more models.

No, I don't agree with all of the choices they make...but man, you guys are sure full of venom, it does seem that you'll slam GW regardless of the facts just based on the fact they "wronged" you somehow. Just something to think about, thx for the explanation

almostreal wrote:

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby and all of the background and is making alot of money, which allows them to continue to make more models.

Just out of curiosity how many of the people currently making decisions at GW were around when it started?

 jonolikespie wrote:

almostreal wrote:

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby and all of the background and is making alot of money, which allows them to continue to make more models.

Just out of curiosity how many of the people currently making decisions at GW were around when it started?

None, the OG founders were bought out by management in the early 90's I do believe. How many people at your work are still there from 1975?

Right, so the people running it didn't create the hobby or the fluff, they just bought it out and started selling toys to kids.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Right, so the people running it didn't create the hobby or the fluff, they just bought it out and started selling toys to kids.

good point. For the record, I am no longer a kid and still buy a ton of toys...and probably always will. You got me tho...

almostreal wrote:
I guess I just don't get it, I consider GW a company that makes table top games and mini's. You want the games and mini's but want it to be a different company, without one I don't think you can have the other.

Of course you can have both. A smart investor buying the remains of GW would understand that the model design is (generally) good, the fluff is awesome, the rules are a good starting point to improve on (with designers who understand both general game design and miniature wargaming), and that the biggest room for improvement in marketing/retail/etc rather than the products themselves. End result: the game stays the same in the areas that it's doing well in, improves in the areas where it needs work, and the business aspects are done with a lot more competence.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
You mean like how Disney bought Lucas Arts and Star Wars?
We will see how good thing turn that out to be...

Actually that's a great example. Disney provides effectively unlimited financial support and a vast marketing and sales system, while so far they've demonstrated the ability to avoid interfering with the existing studios they've bought as long as they keep making quality (and profitable) movies. I think that the paranoia of some fans is entirely unjustified, and the result in the long run will probably be no worse than what we've already had from the Star Wars IP.

Or the new owner might just decide to scrap everything and go with a more extreme version of GW's current strategy, "marines versus marines while marines fight marines with marines and marined marines marining marines in the marine".

Can't entirely say which strategy a potential buyer might use until afterwards.

 Aerethan wrote:
How does one go from "Forceful sodomy" down to misdemeanor assault?

Somebody shop the scumbag steve hat onto a pic of Mark!!!

Post that link as a reply to his FB post on the GW page...

almostreal wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

almostreal wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

almostreal wrote:
Why do people who explicitly say "The sooner GW goes out of business the better" care enough to even post? if I don't like something I don't participate...like I don't buy GW glue anymore, but I don't make threads about it.

because disliking Games Workshop doesn't necesarily mean you dislike Warhammer 40k or Fantasy. It's quite possible to enjoy the games, fluff, models, or anything else about the games themselves and dislike the business decisions GW is making.

it's kind of like saying you don't like Lebron James, but you like the points he scores...right? you can dislike the guy but enjoy what he brings to the table. Ok, that kind of makes sense.

At the end of the day though...Liking Lebron means you have to take the bad with the good. If you enjoy the points, you have to accept the man. Like dude said above, you can't say "I hope Lebron falls in a hole, so that someone else can score his points and play his game that I like better". Well, nobody can play like lebron...GW isn't perfect but they are responsible for creating and expanding the hobby. You can't have your frosting if you don't order the cake fellas.

Bad analogy, because if he dies, then he's no longer playing.

Games Workshop have IP that can, and very likely will, live on if the company dies. They might get bought by a company which treats their customers better, which is what people hope for.

Of course, they could also get bought by a company that treats it worse than GW themselves. I personally just wish GW would do a managment changover and keep their current studio.

I guess I just don't get it, I consider GW a company that makes table top games and mini's. You want the games and mini's but want it to be a different company, without one I don't think you can have the other.

Of course you can, because IP can be traded. If GW decided to sell the Warhammer 40k rights to, say, Wizards of the Coast (god help us), then you'd have Warhammer 40k without Games workshop.

If you want to continue your analogy, instead think of the player as the Warhammer 40k IP, and the team as Games Workshop. Then it works.

Basically, people want to keep playing 40k and Fantasy and other Games Workshop games with a competent managment team in charge. If that means GW 'cleaning house', so to speak, or the Warhammer 40k or Fantasy rights transferring to another company, same thing. The company doesn't matter - as long as the product that winds up on the shelf improves in whatever ways it needs to.

Same as a sports team might transfer a player who sucks (basically the event of GW cleaning house), or die outright and someone else taking over with the current lineup (in the case of GW dying outright and the IP being bought).

Of course you can, because IP can be traded. If GW decided to sell the Warhammer 40k rights to, say, Wizards of the Coast (god help us), then you'd have Warhammer 40k without Games workshop.

If that were to happen I would immediately call up my broker and buy up shares in Hasbro.

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby and all of the background and is making alot of money, which allows them to continue to make more models.

um, wut? GW didn't create gaming, tabletop or otherwise. They didn't create models as a concept, they didn't create sci fi, they didn't even create Chaos or space marines. And those who did design the origins of the games and stories are long gone from the company. Tom Kirby deserves credit for nothing other than price hikes.

GW's recent sins are starting to outweigh their good deeds of ages past.

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby

Wow, Games Workshop created miniature wargames? They better build a time machine and go sue HG Wells!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Wars

Also those dirty sauerbraten-eating Prussians, too!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsspiel_(wargame)

Also, as stated, the people who are at GW now sure as hell didn't create GW's games and universes.

 scipio.au wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
How does one go from "Forceful sodomy" down to misdemeanor assault?

Somebody shop the scumbag steve hat onto a pic of Mark!!!

Post that link as a reply to his FB post on the GW page...

Is the original post still up? I'll do it.

I don't really care if he is still working for GW or not, the thing that annoys me is the fact that he was clearly insulting a lot of the long-time hobbyists, I know plenty who dislike the one-man stores because it's basically GW turning around and saying 'hey, we are are going to stop supporting our own games and downsize stores, only having one staff run them'. Also the fact that he wouldn't even have a wage if it wasn't for us hobbyists buying GW's product.

Imagine you're not into anything geeky. You're a normal dude who went to business school and nothing about you is outside of the mainstream. You end up working at a company that happens to make little plastic soldiers that are meant to be sold to 12 year olds. It's got a yes-men corporate culture and that's okay by you because you know how to get along. And then you keep encountering people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond who also buy your product. You'd probably have little or no sympathy or understanding for them. At best you'd probably consider them sad and at worst you'd consider them rubes that the company you work for gets to fleece.

I think GW has a lot of contempt for it's customers that are not part of the target demographic.

agustin wrote:
Imagine you're not into anything geeky. You're a normal dude who went to business school and nothing about you is outside of the mainstream. You end up working at a company that happens to make little plastic soldiers that are meant to be sold to 12 year olds. It's got a yes-men corporate culture and that's okay by you because you know how to get along. And then you keep encountering people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond who also buy your product. You'd probably have little or no sympathy or understanding for them. At best you'd probably consider them sad and at worst you'd consider them rubes that the company you work for gets to fleece.

And I'd also consider the hypothetical "you" an idiot who didn't bother to learn about the company you're working for or the products they produce, and therefore "you" should be fired and replaced with someone who isn't an idiot. And you'd really deserve it because, in a world where video games are big business, even "mainstream" people have at least heard about D&D, etc, you have to be deliberately ignorant to miss the fact that older people buy and play wargames.

Now, I understand that GW's primary role is to act as a charity and provide employment for idiots who wouldn't last 15 minutes at a real company, but even they should have limits.

Send a screenshot to their HQ, asking them if that was considered proper behavior.

 Ugavine wrote:
Not very professional, but he has a point, this hobby is overflowing with whiners.

Complaining about a huge drop in 3rd party store support (orders being wrong or failing to arrive) when a GW opens up in town is whining?

I really don't believe GW fans are any more likely to whine than any other group of people.

 -Loki- wrote:
[

Of course, they could also get bought by a company that treats it worse than GW themselves.

Unless they start to torture people not buying their stuff, I highly doubt that's possible

jonolikespie wrote:Right, so the people running it didn't create the hobby or the fluff, they just bought it out and started selling toys to kids.

In a nutshell.

agustin wrote:Imagine you're not into anything geeky. You're a normal dude who went to business school and nothing about you is outside of the mainstream. You end up working at a company that happens to make little plastic soldiers that are meant to be sold to 12 year olds. It's got a yes-men corporate culture and that's okay by you because you know how to get along. And then you keep encountering people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond who also buy your product. You'd probably have little or no sympathy or understanding for them. At best you'd probably consider them sad and at worst you'd consider them rubes that the company you work for gets to fleece.

I think GW has a lot of contempt for it's customers that are not part of the target demographic.

Some years ago the collective pejorative I heard was 'sheep', although there have been other, less kind expressions thrown around. But yes, you're absolutely right.

 Pacific wrote:


Some years ago the collective pejorative I heard was 'sheep', although there have been other, less kind expressions thrown around. But yes, you're absolutely right.

They certainly have. It has cropped up a number of times. To quote myself:

 filbert wrote:
This has come up before in another discussion about things GW have said. Here's what they have previously said about their customers:

filbert wrote:...GW call their customers things like "Geek, Gomer, Sheep, and Pleb"....

From the following threads:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420/369325.page#2981277

http://www.infinitythegame.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5052&pid=96428#pid96428

Edit: Boo, the Infinity forum with the original quotes has disappeared. +1 Internets to anyone that can find it!

You mean this one?
http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/5023-are-you-a-faction-whore/page__st__120__hl__gomer#entry95927

That's the one - +1 internets to you then.

Just to address a previous comment (sorry for the slight detour)

The social networking of games workshop has so much disdain on it for a few reasons, I'll compare to PP because I'm more familiar with them and I think they have done very well.

Firstly... there is nothing to be excited about on the GW page, we get the occasional "Oh look, here is a crap video saying were going to release something next month... but we wont actually tell you what"

PP shows pre released models on their site early on. People think how cool they look and are happy about them. They don't really need a huge amount of censorship because when a negative comment is posted the community will tell them why they are wrong, and it ends their.

When asked earlier "do you expect them to have a 24 hour mod on facebook" last i checked this comment was up for over ten hours? even if it is not 24 hours a day to neglect a site for this amount of time, for any business is awful policy. Even if he is an ex employee games workshop should have at least removed the post, and clarified that this was not their position, they have however neglected it and will put any more talk about it down too "Whiney fans"

I posted my own angry reply to the same GW post, but I went ahead and deleted it myself. Let's face it, anything negative won't stay up for long anyway and I basically said "I would bet money GW management thinks the same way, or worse."

agustin wrote:
Imagine you're not into anything geeky. You're a normal dude who went to business school and nothing about you is outside of the mainstream. You end up working at a company that happens to make little plastic soldiers that are meant to be sold to 12 year olds. It's got a yes-men corporate culture and that's okay by you because you know how to get along. And then you keep encountering people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond who also buy your product. You'd probably have little or no sympathy or understanding for them. At best you'd probably consider them sad and at worst you'd consider them rubes that the company you work for gets to fleece.

I think GW has a lot of contempt for it's customers that are not part of the target demographic.

I dunno. Hasbro found itself in a situation similar to that and they responded by engaging and making things intended for that unexpected demographic.

Also... they have a target market of kids?
I don't know about other people, but assuming the current points that Games workshop works towards in 40k being around 2000 points. When I was 14 I didn't have £400 to spend...

 Sigvatr wrote:
Send a screenshot to their HQ, asking them if that was considered proper behavior.

I thought it was established he no longer works there (whatever he may claim on FB)

So one guy vents on Facebook about his work. Who cares?

I'm more concerned about the overall policies of the company towards their customers than this one guy spouting off on FB.

Are twelve year olds really the target demographic? I actually did start at that age and I remember that Games workshop Nottingham and Warhammer world used to be very much dominated by people my age but now I'm 22 and I feel I'm usually the youngest person in store.

Ivan Issaccs wrote:
Are twelve year olds really the target demographic? I actually did start at that age and I remember that Games workshop Nottingham and Warhammer world used to be very much dominated by people my age but now I'm 22 and I feel I'm usually the youngest person in store.

Thats the thing everyone was a "little timmy" at one point, however little timmy became big timmy. Big timmy could afford more so GW increased the price while thinking it was still little timmy they were selling to (so to speak, very awkwardly styled )

Thats the thing everyone was a "little timmy" at one point, however little timmy became big timmy. Big timmy could afford more so GW increased the price while thinking it was still little timmy they were selling to (so to speak, very awkwardly styled )

agreed. When I was 12 ( 8 years ago) I could go into a games workshop with my dad, and he would buy me something for behasving well or something , i mean an eldar jetbike for around fiver... those were the days...

Now my brother plays and he is ten... there is no way outside of a special occasion that he could afford to buy anything there...

And Im inclined to agree, my models went into the attic at 16 because I was burned out on painting them then I restarted my hobby last year and I definately could not have afforded to restart at current prices if I was still little timmy.
Shame head office doesn't seem tuned in enough to realise that.

AaronMint wrote:

Thats the thing everyone was a "little timmy" at one point, however little timmy became big timmy. Big timmy could afford more so GW increased the price while thinking it was still little timmy they were selling to (so to speak, very awkwardly styled )

agreed. When I was 12 ( 8 years ago) I could go into a games workshop with my dad, and he would buy me something for behasving well or something , i mean an eldar jetbike for around fiver... those were the days...

Now my brother plays and he is ten... there is no way outside of a special occasion that he could afford to buy anything there...

Actually I started after I was old enough to drink-which probably helped.. I was never "little timmy." At this point, I hate kids. I know thats a surprise. Frankly those children are eating valuable food that could be used to strengthen the wiener dog legions even further.

 Easy E wrote:
So one guy vents on Facebook about his work. Who cares?

I'm more concerned about the overall policies of the company towards their customers than this one guy spouting off on FB.

It's not just that. It's an individual who may or may not be GW's manager for growth in the community attacking their owncustkmers on their official FB page.

It's not hard to understand why this is very bad.

I genuinely don't understand that comment >.<
I am glad however i seem to have stemmed the "games workshop are all Satan" bashing.

I do think its fair to say that the people in charge and those setting pricing are out of touch with the market ( I mean come on ... I now look at a £50 forgeworld avatar and think its cheap...)

But not all of their employees are evil... I mean even through some of their flaws all of the writers and designers enjoy the game. I just don't see why a company would hire people with those kinds of opinions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I genuinely don't understand that comment >.<
I am glad however i seem to have stemmed the "games workshop are all Satan" bashing.

I do think its fair to say that the people in charge and those setting pricing are out of touch with the market ( I mean come on ... I now look at a £50 forgeworld avatar and think its cheap...)

But not all of their employees are evil... I mean even through some of their flaws all of the writers and designers enjoy the game. I just don't see why a company would hire people with those kinds of opinions.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
So one guy vents on Facebook about his work. Who cares?

I'm more concerned about the overall policies of the company towards their customers than this one guy spouting off on FB.

It's not just that. It's an individual who may or may not be GW's manager for growth in the community attacking their owncustkmers on their official FB page.

It's not hard to understand why this is very bad.

Yeah, as much as I might agree that FB and the internet in general is a huge den of whiners sometimes, a professional individual does not go out and insult his customers. If he worked at any company with a respect for the customer and an understanding of social media, he would be let go.

 pretre wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
So one guy vents on Facebook about his work. Who cares?

I'm more concerned about the overall policies of the company towards their customers than this one guy spouting off on FB.

It's not just that. It's an individual who may or may not be GW's manager for growth in the community attacking their owncustkmers on their official FB page.

It's not hard to understand why this is very bad.

Yeah, as much as I might agree that FB and the internet in general is a huge den of whiners sometimes, a professional individual does not go out and insult his customers. If he worked at any company with a respect for the customer and an understanding of social media, he would be let go.

He probably thought that nobody would notice that he works/has worked at GW... well his plan backfired

I didn't see it in the previous pages (probably missed it) but did anyone see Tasty's article about his previous 'exploits' as a police officer?

I read about the one where he sodomized a woman (IE raped/sexually assaulted/etc), yes.

 pretre wrote:
I didn't see it in the previous pages (probably missed it) but did anyone see Tasty's article about his previous 'exploits' as a police officer?

Yep forced sodomy down to a misdemeanor of some form, what of it? Guys a scumbag it seems who is used to having his backside covered

 doc1234 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I didn't see it in the previous pages (probably missed it) but did anyone see Tasty's article about his previous 'exploits' as a police officer?

Yep forced sodomy down to a misdemeanor of some form, what of it? Guys a scumbag it seems who is used to having his backside covered

What I don't get is why GW hired him when he has done what he has done, don't they check for criminal records?

 MetalOxide wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I didn't see it in the previous pages (probably missed it) but did anyone see Tasty's article about his previous 'exploits' as a police officer?

Yep forced sodomy down to a misdemeanor of some form, what of it? Guys a scumbag it seems who is used to having his backside covered

What I don't get is why GW hired him when he has done what he has done, don't they check for criminal records?

Misdemeanors don't often carry a ton of weight. Now considering that his DNA and fluids where found at the scene of this chick, I don't see how any DA would agree to lower the charges. It's not like she can falsify that evidence... at least not easily.

Either way, he was more or less forced out of his job, but I feel criminal penalties should apply.

 Aerethan wrote:

 MetalOxide wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I didn't see it in the previous pages (probably missed it) but did anyone see Tasty's article about his previous 'exploits' as a police officer?

Yep forced sodomy down to a misdemeanor of some form, what of it? Guys a scumbag it seems who is used to having his backside covered

What I don't get is why GW hired him when he has done what he has done, don't they check for criminal records?

Misdemeanors don't often carry a ton of weight. Now considering that his DNA and fluids where found at the scene of this chick, I don't see how any DA would agree to lower the charges. It's not like she can falsify that evidence... at least not easily.

Either way, he was more or less forced out of his job, but I feel criminal penalties should apply.

You would think they would, but as cliche as it sounds wouldn't surprise me if bribes were applied and shenanigans had so the department could save face.

As I said, Blue Shield of Silence. Many cops love covering up criminals, as long as those criminals are cops.

 doc1234 wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:

 MetalOxide wrote:

 doc1234 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I didn't see it in the previous pages (probably missed it) but did anyone see Tasty's article about his previous 'exploits' as a police officer?

Yep forced sodomy down to a misdemeanor of some form, what of it? Guys a scumbag it seems who is used to having his backside covered

What I don't get is why GW hired him when he has done what he has done, don't they check for criminal records?

Misdemeanors don't often carry a ton of weight. Now considering that his DNA and fluids where found at the scene of this chick, I don't see how any DA would agree to lower the charges. It's not like she can falsify that evidence... at least not easily.

Either way, he was more or less forced out of his job, but I feel criminal penalties should apply.

You would think they would, but as cliche as it sounds wouldn't surprise me if bribes were applied and shenanigans had so the department could save face.

But that is the thing, by doing all this shady crap, it sheds a worse light on the department than if they had admitted it, and thrown the book at the guy. I'd respect a police department that admits it's mistakes, and takes action to correct them far more than one that just tries to cover them up and let scumbags off with little recourse.

I think perhaps that police departments forget who they work for. They are not above the law, if anything they have far less wiggle room with it than most other people. I feel for cops in rough areas where their life is threatened daily, but it seems more often that the scumbags who get away with gak are in areas where they don't have anything more important to do than try to blackmail people out of their arrest warrants.

Shouldn't the law come down harder on cops? I mean killing a cop is seen to be 'worse' by that same extension of logic a cop doing despicable things for corrupt reasons should be shown the full extent of the law.

Also GW sux

 Melissia wrote:
As I said, Blue Shield of Silence. Many cops love covering up criminals, as long as those criminals are cops.

Reminds me of the film Magnum Force with rogue cops who went about shooting suspected criminals whilst being protected by the police Lt.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
So one guy vents on Facebook about his work. Who cares?

I'm more concerned about the overall policies of the company towards their customers than this one guy spouting off on FB.

It's not just that. It's an individual who may or may not be GW's manager for growth in the community attacking their owncustkmers on their official FB page.

It's not hard to understand why this is very bad.

I know my company has a pretty interesting policy about what we can say or do onOnline as "official" or "unofficial" company representatives about our company. I wonder what GW's is?

 Revengeancer wrote:
Funny story about Mark Bolger...
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/alt.thebird.copwatch/lWRfPw3P82U

GW was impressed how Marc forced things down people's thoats and got away with it. So they hired him
BTW his US boss (if he is still with GW, as some internet sources say) is a woman.

Groan. That might have been over the line.

lol

almostreal wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:

almostreal wrote:

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby and all of the background and is making alot of money, which allows them to continue to make more models.

Just out of curiosity how many of the people currently making decisions at GW were around when it started?

None, the OG founders were bought out by management in the early 90's I do believe. How many people at your work are still there from 1975?

jonolikespie wrote:Right, so the people running it didn't create the hobby or the fluff, they just bought it out and started selling toys to kids.

The fact that these two comments came so close together is Endemic of the blind hatred and ignorance that infects GW hate spam.
Sure GW's original owners were boughtout by management in the 90's. The same fething management that developed the games we now play. Bryan Ansell, the co creator of WHFB, fething led the buyout and still works at GW. JJ obviously still works at GW you may remember him from 40k, the only game I give two gaks about, in fact of the creators of the various GW franchises the earliest that left was Andy Chambers, who was never management in the first place. In fact when Rick Priestley left in 2010 was the first time a game created and decision maker left the company. And all our woes began in 2010 right? No the feth the did not.








You have no idea what the feth you are talking about.

So wait... an EX-employee trolled haters on facebook? And now we have 5 pages of 'well, even though he doesn't work there, if he did, it would be awesome, I mean terrible, so let's act outraged as if he did!'

Say it ain't so. It is like when someone made up a fake policy about finecast returns saying one person said it and dozens of contrary evidence from other employees saying it is not the policy only to find out that it was never a policy.

With all the manufactured outrage based upon hypotheticals and lies... no wonder GW hates us.

 AustonT wrote:
Bryan Ansell, the co creator of WHFB, fething led the buyout and still works at GW.

No he sold it to the current management and went on to start Wargames Foundry.

 Easy E wrote:
So one guy vents on Facebook about his work. Who cares?

I'm more concerned about the overall policies of the company towards their customers than this one guy spouting off on FB.

Well the thing is it's representative of a general attitude - from the posts made on this thread this is endemic of what the upper management thinks of their customer base.

The kind of 'yes men' attitude, of not giving a crap about existing customers, Finecast being crap, lack of marketing etc. - all of these are linked factors.

Wait.... so does this guy currently work for GW, or not?

 azazel the cat wrote:
Wait.... so does this guy currently work for GW, or not?

It would appear not, but it's not too far a leap to conclude that the attitude he expressed is one he held while in the job, and that others at the top of GW still think. Not that it should be a huge surprise really.

 azazel the cat wrote:
Wait.... so does this guy currently work for GW, or not?

Sounds like not.

Peregrine wrote:And I'd also consider the hypothetical "you" an idiot who didn't bother to learn about the company you're working for or the products they produce, and therefore "you" should be fired and replaced with someone who isn't an idiot. And you'd really deserve it because, in a world where video games are big business, even "mainstream" people have at least heard about D&D, etc, you have to be deliberately ignorant to miss the fact that older people buy and play wargames.

Absolutely. It's obvious to me and it's obvious to you, but not to GW. To GW, we're contemptible.

Pacific wrote:Some years ago the collective pejorative I heard was 'sheep', although there have been other, less kind expressions thrown around. But yes, you're absolutely right.

It's shocking to hear about the sheer contempt GW has for its customers. Well, it was shocking. Now it's sort of not really surprising at all.

AduroT wrote:
I dunno. Hasbro found itself in a situation similar to that and they responded by engaging and making things intended for that unexpected demographic.

I think it's a massive difference in corporate culture. One the one hand you have Hasbro, a company that is interested in any and all customers and any and all sources of revenue. They embrace adult collectors of Star Wars and GI Joe, and they embraced the adult following of MLP as best they could, though not perfectly. They even saw the value of Magic:The Gathering and bought WotC years ago. GW on the other hand... Well, let's just say just because something is smart, doesn't mean GW will do it.

 filbert wrote:

They certainly have. It has cropped up a number of times. To quote myself:

GW call their customers things like "Geek, Gomer, Sheep, and Pleb"....

The rapist who made the first facebook post may not be a current GW employee, but he did demonstrate a level of contempt that is pretty indicative of GW's culture.

A smart company wants their customers choosing them to be the smart and correct choice and doesn't see them as sheet to be fleeced or plebs to be ruled.

.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Wait.... so does this guy currently work for GW, or not?

It would appear not, but it's not too far a leap to conclude that the attitude he expressed is one he held while in the job, and that others at the top of GW still think. Not that it should be a huge surprise really.

So Dakka pulled out the old 'jump to conclusions' mat and made a hypothetical thing to be mad about, acts as if it is true then devolves into a 'Why I hate GW talking points' thread with a side of Internet Lynch mob. We have no idea what he thought while on the job, if anyone at GW agreed with him or maybe he was let go for spouting his anti-fandom speech? No one knows but who cares about what actually happens when you can forge a narrative and discuss how smart we all are without facts.

A productive thread to say the least.

nkelsch wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Wait.... so does this guy currently work for GW, or not?

It would appear not, but it's not too far a leap to conclude that the attitude he expressed is one he held while in the job, and that others at the top of GW still think. Not that it should be a huge surprise really.

So Dakka pulled out the old 'jump to conclusions' mat and made a hypothetical thing to be mad about, acts as if it is true then devolves into a 'Why I hate GW talking points' thread with a side of Internet Lynch mob. We have no idea what he thought while on the job, if anyone at GW agreed with him or maybe he was let go for spouting his anti-fandom speech? No one knows but who cares about what actually happens when you can forge a narrative and discuss how smart we all are without facts.

A productive thread to say the least.

No. No-one knows whether he is employed by GW or not. As has been stated previously, his Facebook and Linkedin status say he does; according to one poster from speaking to his GW manager, he does not. So, who knows.

Anyone else notice this post from the 80s Chaos interview thread?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/499039.page#5179181

'Also,' David Pringle recalls, 'I think there was some pulling two ways between Bryan Ansell (who was all for the books) and Tom Kirby (who tended to be against them — I remember him telling me that he hated fantasy and that his favourite writer was Jane Austen).'

GW is run by someone who hated fantasy as a genre (and possibly still does). Just think about that for a second.

An ex-employee trolls people on his ex-employers Facebook page and people are treating it like gospel.

Keep classy Dakka.

I don't know, man. It kind of reinforces what people have said before.

This just smacks of "things I thought, but couldn't say before I left". I don't doubt their are passionate people that care for GW systems still working at GW but the ones with the power and say are probably a majority of profit pushing condescending asshats.

Can't remember who or where the quote from somebody who works for GW/has a friend who does expressing the Management's attitude to "veteran" gamers.

agustin wrote:
Anyone else notice this post from the 80s Chaos interview thread?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/499039.page#5179181

'Also,' David Pringle recalls, 'I think there was some pulling two ways between Bryan Ansell (who was all for the books) and Tom Kirby (who tended to be against them — I remember him telling me that he hated fantasy and that his favourite writer was Jane Austen).'

GW is run by someone who hated fantasy as a genre (and possibly still does). Just think about that for a second.

I dunno, Give me kirbys position, shareholding and the dividends I would get each year and I would loathe fantasy with a passion.

 d-usa wrote:
An ex-employee trolls people on his ex-employers Facebook page and people are treating it like gospel.

Keep classy Dakka.

Indeed, some random feller makes a massive over statement accusing gamers of being whiners generates 6 pages of whining on Dakka.

Doesn't seem like much of an overstatement now does it.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

agustin wrote:

GW is run by someone who hated fantasy as a genre (and possibly still does). Just think about that for a second.

I dunno, Give me kirbys position, shareholding and the dividends I would get each year and I would loathe fantasy with a passion.

/slowclap

Was the post eventually deleted?

 Compel wrote:
Was the post eventually deleted?

It's gone now

Hmm, Tom Kirby says he hates fantasy then says how his favorite author is Jane Austen. I'll tell you this my dear Mr. Kirby, Jane Austen IS fantasy!. What else do you call all the unrequited love, sighing, heaving breasts, unsaid feelings, and batting of eyelashes that go on in her insipid novels. She is selling a fantasy about love.

Umm. I think you know that he wasn't talking about fantasy in that particular context. You could replace Fantasy in the statement with 'Swords and Sorcery' or 'Warhammer Fantasy Battles'.

 notprop wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
An ex-employee trolls people on his ex-employers Facebook page and people are treating it like gospel.

Keep classy Dakka.

Indeed, some random feller makes a massive over statement accusing gamers of being whiners generates 6 pages of whining on Dakka.

Doesn't seem like much of an overstatement now does it.

QFT.

Methinks you miss my point.

Being that it is no less ridiculous to enjoy Swords and Sorcery than it is to be enraptured by Georgian era Romance fantasy.

 notprop wrote:


Indeed, some random feller makes a massive over statement accusing gamers of being whiners generates 6 pages of whining on Dakka.

Doesn't seem like much of an overstatement now does it.

You've not spent much time on the internet have you? The Wargaming community is positively tame compared to the average MMO playerbase.

He was definitely talking about literary genres. But one of the things you'll here again and again is about the rich fiction and backgrounds developed for 40k and WFB. The genre matters and the fact that Kirby hated it means his interest in it is entirely in terms of how much money he can suck out of it. It's more contempt from a company that calls its customers derogatory things like sheep and pleb.

Agustin, what article did the Priestly quote in your sig come from?

Guys, guys, I think we're all missing the bigger picture here.

Look at the post right below Mark Bolger's.

...how do I get me some Leman Russ Battle Tang?

http://blogs.redding.com/mbeauchamp/archives/Tang.gif

 Lalochezia wrote:
Guys, guys, I think we're all missing the bigger picture here.

Look at the post right below Mark Bolger's.

...how do I get me some Leman Russ Battle Tang?

http://blogs.redding.com/mbeauchamp/archives/Tang.gif

Frankly, I think this is a [/thread] moment, here. Guy didn't work for GW, but I do want some Battle Tang.

The guy raped someone and people are complaining about his attitude towards the player base? In that case it makes you wonder if his contempt was deserving.

What, you mean that we have contempt for him? Well in that case you are absolutely correct.

 Micky wrote:
Agustin, what article did the Priestly quote in your sig come from?

It's from an interview with the Realm of Chaos blog:

http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.nl/2013/01/rick-priestley-interview-from-realms-of.html

That's even better than my 'front for drugs' Jervis quite!

I'm not familiar with that one.

Jervis once said that when he saw the numbers for space marine sales he thought it looked more like a front for drugs


Automatically Appended Next Post:

agustin wrote:

 Micky wrote:
Agustin, what article did the Priestly quote in your sig come from?

It's from an interview with the Realm of Chaos blog:

http://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.nl/2013/01/rick-priestley-interview-from-realms-of.html

Its just above the warhammer seige part

"Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!"

If that isnt damning I dont know what is.

Ah right. That quote.

Lately I've been revisiting my RT and 2nd edition 40k stuff and my 3rd, 4th and 5th edition WFB books and they just ooze genuine love for the hobby (though by late 5th, the books get more sterile). It's sort of sad that it's gone now and instead we have people who hold the hobbyist in contempt profiting off of all those creative people's hard work put in over decades.

Palindrome wrote:

 notprop wrote:


Indeed, some random feller makes a massive over statement accusing gamers of being whiners generates 6 pages of whining on Dakka.

Doesn't seem like much of an overstatement now does it.

You've not spent much time on the internet have you? The Wargaming community is positively tame compared to the average MMO playerbase.

Because computer nerds being a bunch of whiny girls makes wargaming nerds less whiny or girly?

I think folks are taking this a bit too far here. I don't think the opinion of one man can be said to indicate the overall opinion of the company, no matter what position he holds.

I do not even think one frustrated comment can indicate the overall tenor of that individuals feelings on the GW playerbase.

I don't think that the fact the company refers to their customers as sheep means much, since I have never known any position that deals with customers which doesn't refer to them in derogatory ways on occasion. That's part of the built in relationship between provider and customer - retail workers do it, chefs do it, bands do it, CEO's of gaming companies do it. They also probably like most of their customers/fnas/playerbase just fine, that's just the way you talk about the people putting pressure on you, especially when it is the pain-in-the-ass one's who take up most of your time (this is always the case).

I think liking Jane Austen more than an entire literary genre is silly, but liking Jane Austen more than the vast majority of fantasy writers is just good taste. I don't care for Austen, but she is a far superior writer to the run of the mill fantasy writers out there.

Last, I think cops who use their position to take advantage of scared women should be strung up and beaten like a pinata.

-D

 Melissia wrote:
Frankly, I think this is a [/thread] moment, here. Guy didn't work for GW, but I do want some Battle Tang.

That guy certainly has been a high up manager at GW USA. Only uncertainty is, does he still work for GW. Some internet sources including his facebook profile say yes, one poster here says no. That's all we got ATM.

 Kroothawk wrote:

That guy certainly has been a high up manager at GW USA. Only uncertainty is, does he still work for GW. Some internet sources including his facebook profile say yes, one poster here says no. That's all we got ATM.

Said the same thing about a page ago but apparently there is now a trend of whining about whining

 d-usa wrote:
An ex-employee trolls people on his ex-employers Facebook page and people are treating it like gospel.

Keep classy Dakka.

So this guy doesn't even work for GW anymore.

Tempest in a teapot.

 Easy E wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
An ex-employee trolls people on his ex-employers Facebook page and people are treating it like gospel.

Keep classy Dakka.

So this guy doesn't even work for GW anymore.

Tempest in a teapot.

NO!

As has been said before, the only person claiming that is 1 guy in this thread. According to Google, LinkedIn etc. the guy still works for GW. It is still up for debate as to whether he is still employed by GW.

Does it really matter? I mean even if he dosnt it still just about roughly sums up how the up top at GW feel about the average gamer nerd......

Somebody COULD call GW and verify...if they care enough. I don't buy from GW anymore-I couldn't care less. But somebody who is hurt/upset/angry should call and get an answer. Otherwise we are all just whining about GW without doing anything. Once somebody gets an answer though, if he is working there still, we can grab the torches, pitchforks, tar, feathers and rubber chickens! We can erect a gibbet!!

Hehe, I said 'erect' on a nerd site.

Palindrome wrote:
You've not spent much time on the internet have you? The Wargaming community is positively tame compared to the average MMO playerbase.

"We are not the absolute worst people on the internet." isn't really a very good boast, if you .stop and think about it.

 Elemental wrote:

Palindrome wrote:
You've not spent much time on the internet have you? The Wargaming community is positively tame compared to the average MMO playerbase.

"We are not the absolute worst people on the internet." isn't really a very good boast, if you .stop and think about it.

I disagree. I think it's a pretty damn good boast when I stop and think about it.

I don't think the general dakka community really wants to find out if he's still employed by GW. It''s far more fun for them to assume and gossip. Like seriously, I pointed out pages ago how to confirm this and no one has done so and reported back.

 Elemental wrote:

"We are not the absolute worst people on the internet." isn't really a very good boast, if you .stop and think about it.

As forums go wargaming ones tend to be relatively friendly places. Given that this is the internet that doesn't really mean all that much but there are far, far (far) worse communities out there.

All forums are full of whiners but that is down purely to the anonimity that the internet offers as well as its very broad potential audience coupled with the ease of expressing opinons. Saying that wargamers are excessively whiney is unfair when looked at in perspective.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Somebody COULD call GW and verify...if they care enough. I don't buy from GW anymore-I couldn't care less. But somebody who is hurt/upset/angry should call and get an answer. Otherwise we are all just whining about GW without doing anything. Once somebody gets an answer though, if he is working there still, we can grab the torches, pitchforks, tar, feathers and rubber chickens! We can erect a gibbet!!

Hehe, I said 'erect' on a nerd site.

I have a feeling they're not going to say whether someone is employed with them or not to some person calling in.

Someone should ask on that same facebook page, if he still is GW manager.

We're just fleshy cheeto dusted money sacks to them. Learn your place!

Palindrome wrote:

 Elemental wrote:

"We are not the absolute worst people on the internet." isn't really a very good boast, if you .stop and think about it.

As forums go wargaming ones tend to be relatively friendly places. Given that this is the internet that doesn't really mean all that much but there are far, far (far) worse communities out there.

All forums are full of whiners but that is down purely to the anonimity that the internet offers as well as its very broad potential audience coupled with the ease of expressing opinons. Saying that wargamers are excessively whiney is unfair when looked at in perspective.

I have to be honest, I think the general atmosphere these days isn't as congenial as it once was, at least as far as the 'big two' (Dakka and Warseer) are concerned.

Why is that? Well, I have to be honest and say that pretty much most of the negative feeling comes from comments surrounding a single manufacturer, who just happens to be the biggest player in the market. You get the odd comment in the sections of other gaming systems, but by and large these are isolated, and I would even go as far as to say they are a 'spill over', if you like, from the 'GW has done x' threads that seem constantly to be in the top 10 Dakka discussion threads.

Thinking back over the years, of time spent on the old Relic forums, Warseer and others I think the atmosphere has dipped as the number of 'red marks' against GW have increased. Of course there have always been complaints against price rises, the odd upset customer who was treated badly, but absolutely nothing on the scale of the negative reaction that Finecast and the RoW embargo generated (to give two examples). These customer relation 'faus pas' necessarily drive a wedge into the community and set people against each other, depending on whether you agreed with them or not, but I think more generally it seems to have steam-rolled into a kind of general feeling of ill-will, so even when GW does something positive (the move towards digital codecies recently, for instance) it is often derided or criticised.

Go and take a look at the Infinity and Mantic forums. Practically zero ill will and arguments between the members there, and instead the community is focused almost entirely towards enjoyment of the game - of course you still get the occasional head-case or troll, but absolutely nothing like on the same scale.

So I don't think that the 'well you will just whine about everything' statement is valid - evidence from other (non-GW) forums proves to the contrary.

nkelsch wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Wait.... so does this guy currently work for GW, or not?

It would appear not, but it's not too far a leap to conclude that the attitude he expressed is one he held while in the job, and that others at the top of GW still think. Not that it should be a huge surprise really.

So Dakka pulled out the old 'jump to conclusions' mat and made a hypothetical thing to be mad about, acts as if it is true then devolves into a 'Why I hate GW talking points' thread with a side of Internet Lynch mob. We have no idea what he thought while on the job, if anyone at GW agreed with him or maybe he was let go for spouting his anti-fandom speech? No one knows but who cares about what actually happens when you can forge a narrative and discuss how smart we all are without facts.

A productive thread to say the least.

Hear, Hear!

 Pacific wrote:
Thinking back over the years, of time spent on the old Relic forums, Warseer and others I think the atmosphere has dipped as the number of 'red marks' against GW have increased. Of course there have always been complaints against price rises, the odd upset customer who was treated badly, but absolutely nothing on the scale of the negative reaction that Finecast and the RoW embargo generated (to give two examples).

In times, when GW advertised in other Wargames magazines, there was less bitching about GW not advertising. (BTW that's how I learned about GW).

In times, when WD was a magazine covering all tabletop and RPG games, there was less bitching about GW ignoring everyone else in the business.

In times, when GW and MB worked together to make TV-ads for an introductory game (Space Crusade/Heroquest) in standard toy stores just to double the number of customers the classic way, there was no bitching about GW not caring about a diminishing customer base.

In times when GW and De Agostini worked together to get the LOTR tabletop going with TV-ads and standard newspaper stores distribution of magazine-plus-sprue bundles, there was no bitching about high hurdles entering the HHHHobby.

In times, when GW supported the bloodbowl scene and their websites instead of sueing the hell out of them, there was no bitching about lack of fan support.

In times of full support for Specialist Games, there was no bitching about lack of support for them.

In times of rich bits service, there was no bitching about lack of support for converters.

In times of a Codex costing 12€ (3rd edition 40k, 15 years ago) instead of 39€ (+225%, 6th edition 40k), there was no bitching about Codices costing too much.

In times, GW had a forum, ...
I could go on and on like that, but you get the picture.

You are right, much more bitching today
Maybe because GW is not run by hobbyists like us anymore, but by managers and lawyers only interested in dividends.

Hate is the wrong word. Disdain might be a better one.

Contempt fits too...

Not to mention Disappointment.

I agree more with disappointment, the things we loved about GW are gone - shoved out by the bean counters, money men, and sycophants.

Opening day sales - GONE

Anniversary sales - GONE

Bundles and special promos - GONE

Official tournament and outreach programs - GONE

I could go on and on like this.

t's not contempt or hate. Its frustration and disappointment that comes out as rage on forums like this one.

GW drove me away with pricing and IMHO bad rules.

Does that mean I hate GW? Nope I am frustrated that the game that got me into the hobby has gone to crap, I am more angry that with the advent of even more sloppy loose rules the cost went up dramatically.

I hope that someday GW returns to its former glory, decides to embrace its customer base and puts out a good tight rules set. Maybe then I'll come back to the game. Until then I will take some small delight in watching them burn.

 darefsky wrote:

I hope that someday GW returns to its former glory, decides to embrace its customer base and puts out a good tight rules set. Maybe then I'll come back to the game. Until then I will take some small delight in watching them burn.

There's always the Gates of Antares kickstarter... It's an attempt to find the glory of GW again from Rick Priestley, as opposed to the current corporate rubbish.

 Compel wrote:

 darefsky wrote:

I hope that someday GW returns to its former glory, decides to embrace its customer base and puts out a good tight rules set. Maybe then I'll come back to the game. Until then I will take some small delight in watching them burn.

There's always the Gates of Antares kickstarter... It's an attempt to find the glory of GW again from Rick Priestley, as opposed to the current corporate rubbish.

I had seen that, Its a bit steep in the pledge department, but definitely keeping an eye on it.

 Compel wrote:

 darefsky wrote:

I hope that someday GW returns to its former glory, decides to embrace its customer base and puts out a good tight rules set. Maybe then I'll come back to the game. Until then I will take some small delight in watching them burn.

There's always the Gates of Antares kickstarter... It's an attempt to find the glory of GW again from Rick Priestley, as opposed to the current corporate rubbish.

This is a joke, right?

Rick Priestley was with the company until relatively recently. He was part of "the current corporate rubbish".

 Compel wrote:

 darefsky wrote:

I hope that someday GW returns to its former glory, decides to embrace its customer base and puts out a good tight rules set. Maybe then I'll come back to the game. Until then I will take some small delight in watching them burn.

There's always the Gates of Antares kickstarter... It's an attempt to find the glory of GW again from Rick Priestley, as opposed to the current corporate rubbish.

Can ya provide a link?

So that I can at least judge it for myself.

Sure thing. Beyond The Gates of Antares

And that's the thing, he *was* part of it. There's an interview here that's good.

Dunno, the only thing that interests me there is the reverse-joint walker...

In the Tasche we Trust.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Compel wrote:

 darefsky wrote:

I hope that someday GW returns to its former glory, decides to embrace its customer base and puts out a good tight rules set. Maybe then I'll come back to the game. Until then I will take some small delight in watching them burn.

There's always the Gates of Antares kickstarter... It's an attempt to find the glory of GW again from Rick Priestley, as opposed to the current corporate rubbish.

This is a joke, right?

Rick Priestley was with the company until relatively recently. He was part of "the current corporate rubbish".

He was one of the vets who helped make the hobby what it was and would have tried to stick with it because that's what you do when you've invested so much time and effort into something like this, the problem is that most of the vets who actually care about the hobby have been driven out by the corporate guys.

 d-usa wrote:
An ex-employee trolls people on his ex-employers Facebook page and people are treating it like gospel.

Keep classy Dakka.

Exalted!

Now I am off to change my Facebook page and linked in profile....because the internet never lies.

Not to stick the knife in whilst the wound is still fresh, but I have to say (now that I'm out) when I worked for GW there was a great, yawning divide between the guys on the ground (like me!) and those in corporate.

Whenever the regional manager came through, or we got an email from higher up, there seemed to be a complete disconnect between what we were trying to do (create a wargaming community in which customers felt comfortable hanging out, playing games, painting, modelling, etc) and what corporate wanted us to do (sell people plastic crack at as a prodigious a rate as humanly possible)

As such, just before I left, we were receiving instructions along the lines of asking people to leave if they weren't planning on buying anything, never working on anything in store (that is, no personal or store painting); either you were standing up selling something to someone, or quietly waiting for a customer to walk by so you could start selling them something.

As such, I have no trouble believing that a corporate individual is entirely dismissive of us as group, simply because in his mind we don't make him money, we stand around in stores, wasting his employee's time with questions about things like "tactics" and "cool army ideas", instead of doing the courteous thing and just dropping $400 and leaving immediately.

Its also because GWs image is so tarnished and the opinion on thier practices so low that any number of people hanging around in a store will eventually start talking to each other and realize how badly they are being treated by the company.

A vast majority of 40k players have no idea what goes on, they just come in buy stuff and leave completely ignorant to GW polices and underhandedness. The second people have access to that information they start thinking about what they are buying and make informed purchases, and GW HATES that with a burning fury. Why do you think they are getting rid of gaming spaces? Or asking "loiters" to leave? Why do you think they hit the sue button so often? I've said it once and I'll say again, GW is at war with its customers, and the fact they cant see that just proves how disconnected they are.

Its all about keeping people quiet and stupid, either that or GW is so ashamed of its customers they dont want people scared off by the neck beards in thier stores. Either way we'll see what the next generation of GW store looks like.

Just to sum up the original point of this thread, so people ironically whining about people whining dont ned to read all 7 pages;

1) This guy is an ass hat

2) If he is an employee or not the fact that this post was left up for so long on the official games workshop page was ridiculous and unprofessional.

3) It showed a complete underestimation of its player bases reaction too the comment. Yes some people over react... but in fairness I played in the Guildwars 2 Beta test and people were flaming about it being buggy... This is a genuine insult from a man who states himself that he works for games workshop. This being the case or not games workshop only had to post a comment saying "we apologies ect... we would like to clarify that "Ass hat" doesn't work here and has not for x time" instead they deleted it not realizing that in the last ten years people actually use the internet to discuss hobbies... shocking...

 Ravenous D wrote:

GW is at war with its customers, and the fact they cant see that just proves how disconnected they are.

Its all about keeping people quiet and stupid, either that or GW is so ashamed of its customers they dont want people scared off by the neck beards in thier stores. Either way we'll see what the next generation of GW store looks like.

GW's relationship with it's customers is no more adversarial than any other company. They are a big company, so they can get away with more than the competition. Nonetheless, no company is at war with it's customers, especially not in a market where just ceasing to buy is an option. In any such conflict, the customers win. They walk away. Every company knows that, and every company finds exactly how predatory they can be before they lose too many people, and hovers around that line.

-D

 Ravenous D wrote:
Its also because GWs image is so tarnished and the opinion on thier practices so low that any number of people hanging around in a store will eventually start talking to each other and realize how badly they are being treated by the company.

A vast majority of 40k players have no idea what goes on, they just come in buy stuff and leave completely ignorant to GW polices and underhandedness. The second people have access to that information they start thinking about what they are buying and make informed purchases, and GW HATES that with a burning fury. Why do you think they are getting rid of gaming spaces? Or asking "loiters" to leave? Why do you think they hit the sue button so often? I've said it once and I'll say again, GW is at war with its customers, and the fact they cant see that just proves how disconnected they are.

Its all about keeping people quiet and stupid, either that or GW is so ashamed of its customers they dont want people scared off by the neck beards in thier stores. Either way we'll see what the next generation of GW store looks like.

Exalted for truth. People that know anything know GW does some pretty stupid (keeping it PG here) stuff. GW doesn't want their ignorant 13 year olds getting wind of any of that.

 Hollowman wrote:


GW's relationship with it's customers is no more adversarial than any other company. They are a big company, so they can get away with more than the competition. Nonetheless, no company is at war with it's customers, especially not in a market where just ceasing to buy is an option. In any such conflict, the customers win. They walk away. Every company knows that, and every company finds exactly how predatory they can be before they lose too many people, and hovers around that line.

So thats why they go out of there way to screw its customers? They felt the aussies were abusing their right to order from another country so they dropped the embargo on them. They dont like changing their prices so they say they use "historical exchange rates" from the 80's it seems. For some reason everything is compared to the british pound despite all of north americas models coming from the memphis factory. They've gone out of their way to strip information away from people as much as humanly possible, and if you've gone into their stores lately they stare at you like you're a criminal, and god forbid you actually voice an opinion there. They flat out tell us they are moving to a material that is 1/10th the cost of pewter and then add a 15 to 200% price rise on the kits because they need to pay for the machines, then a month later hit us with another price rise just because they can. A box of guardsmen was $40 for 20 3 years ago, then it was $25 for 10, then $30 a year later, now its $35, that is so far ahead of inflation that it is not even funny.

Should I go on? I cant name any other company that plays a roll in my life that has such bile for its customers, they go above and beyond to make you not want to spend money there.

We wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
An ex-employee trolls people on his ex-employers Facebook page and people are treating it like gospel.

Keep classy Dakka.

Exalted!

Now I am off to change my Facebook page and linked in profile....because the internet never lies.

In a world where potential employers actively stalk your facebook and other online profiles, keeping your information up to date and inoffensvie is actually fairly important.

RavenousD, there are a few companies that treat Thier customers like utter gak. Have you ever been to a Ford dealership? You may as well be a piece of gak on the sole of the salesmans' shoe...
"Ahhh, sir wants a car?, may I suggest the auction?" That's a true story btw.

But GW really take the cake frankly. 15-16 years ago, I could pop in to my local store and spend the whole day chatting with the 3-4 staffers there, and not just about GW products. Cars, Films and Football were all on the agenda then. I even helped them paint a few minis for an Ice World diarama that they were working on at the time....And all without threats from HQ.

Now I have no inclination to stay in a one man store for longer than I absolutely need too. And that's a shame. Honestly, I avoid GW stores like I do Ebola.... I buy from my FLGS unless they have nothing in stock that I need. They have gone from a Customer Oriented Business to a Soulless Destroyer Of Worlds. And all in 15 years! Not bad eh?

Clarence wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

Clarence wrote:
Just got word from a friend of mine who is a current store manager in Toronto, Mark Bolger hasn't worked for GW in over a year.

Are you sure, because it says not only on his Facebook profile, but also his Linkedin profile, and several other online resume websites that he is currently working for GW. Not to mention several directories still list him as working for GW.

I'm as sure as I can be. I'm still close friends with many GW staff, including my old Director for Growth. I literally just asked a GW store manager who's been with the company for over 5 years. But believe what you will. Facebook says it so it must be true, right?

Fafnir, why don't you call GW customer service and ask them if Mark Bolger is still employed with GW. Here's the number.

1-800-394-4263

As a former executive he was fairly well known. If for whatever reason the guy doesn't know, ask for Dave Swann, the customer service manager. He would know for sure.

Clarence

Dave Swann is one cool dude. We chatted it up for a while drinking beer at throne of skulls.

Its also because GWs image is so tarnished and the opinion on thier practices so low that any number of people hanging around in a store will eventually start talking to each other and realize how badly they are being treated by the company.

Y'see, whilst I've only got my personal experience here, I have to say that I'd never experienced this for the entire time I was working there (3 and half years)

People who came into the store spoke about stuff they were working on, painting advice, you know, product stuff. Sometimes someone would complain about the rules of a unit, or that an army was OP, but it would never escalate to the outright loathing or hatred you see expressed on the internet (whether that hatred is justified or not is irrelevant)

Sometimes they'd start talking about stuff that wasn't GW related, though, like what movies they'd seen recently, or video games they'd been playing. Now, I (and my manager) were fine with letting them do that, just hanging out and talking, but we received instructions on many occasions telling us to either ask the person to start discussing GW things, or leave the store.

So, I don't think it's because Corporate are terrified of the people in their stores gathering for any length of time, lest they collectively uncover the dark secret that GW is terrible, I just think Corporate has no understanding of what it takes to develop and maintain a positive gaming community.

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:
RavenousD, ... Have you ever been to a Ford dealership? You may as well be a piece of gak on the sole of the salesmans' shoe...

Since Ford's drive like a pos on the sole of your shoe it only fits.

 Dr. Delorean wrote:

Its also because GWs image is so tarnished and the opinion on thier practices so low that any number of people hanging around in a store will eventually start talking to each other and realize how badly they are being treated by the company.

Y'see, whilst I've only got my personal experience here, I have to say that I'd never experienced this for the entire time I was working there (3 and half years)

People who came into the store spoke about stuff they were working on, painting advice, you know, product stuff. Sometimes someone would complain about the rules of a unit, or that an army was OP, but it would never escalate to the outright loathing or hatred you see expressed on the internet (whether that hatred is justified or not is irrelevant)

Sometimes they'd start talking about stuff that wasn't GW related, though, like what movies they'd seen recently, or video games they'd been playing. Now, I (and my manager) were fine with letting them do that, just hanging out and talking, but we received instructions on many occasions telling us to either ask the person to start discussing GW things, or leave the store.

So, I don't think it's because Corporate are terrified of the people in their stores gathering for any length of time, lest they collectively uncover the dark secret that GW is terrible, I just think Corporate has no understanding of what it takes to develop and maintain a positive gaming community.

Something to consider is that a store where people are seen just "loafing around", to some people, appears to be a cliquey place to someone who is new.

The FLGS I used to frequent had a policy that the regulars were expected to adhere to, where they didn't just sit around doing nothing when someone new entered the shop. They were to introduce themselves, engage the customer a bit and see what they were looking for in particular or if they were just browsing and then point the prospective customer to the staff member who would be able to help them best.
It was a nice system as it prevented the whole "the employees won't leave me alone" and the perception of cliques at the shop.

Having parsed the thread, I feel that people are simply missing the underlying reality. The term "Occam's Razor" means that the simplest solution is usually the correct one.

There is no 'hatred of customers' here. There is nothing even remotely of the sort. No conspiracy.

The largest GW stockholder is also the head honcho of the company. All he cares about is getting as much money as possible from his investment. That's it. I guarantee you that he 'sees the future' of self-printed miniatures products, and is rushing to cash in on GW's IP. Intellectual Property rights are the only thing GW will have in 5-10 years, and the company is clearly orienting itself in this direction.

Again, no conspiracy, no evil plans, no hatred.

Just a company moving to maximize short term profits. Not unlike the rest of the corporate world.

---

You want to make a difference? Stop buying product. Get your friends to stop buying product. Get THEIR friends to stop buying product. Start a nation-wide protest. Convince parents that there's better things to spend their money on. Convince tournament throwers to stop running 40K tournaments (good luck with that one). Etc.

May the force(tm) be with you.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:
Confirmed non-troll or photoshop? That's ridiculous.

Been on his profile too:

"I spent my childhood growing up in Bayonne N.J. I went to Bayonne High school. I went into the U.S.M.C. in 1990 and got out in 1994. I became a law enforcement officer in the city of Richmond Virginia from 1995 until 2004. I now work for Games Workshop North America as a Director for Growth and travel a lot!"

An ex-cop who's a jerk. Absolutely shocking.

as the guy(top facebook poster in OP's picture) who evidently received the facebook hate from the former GW employee... he fails utterly at argument discourse. They asked how the service is, skeptical review can be handed a few different ways. I wish GW had owned this situation, denouncing this former employee, and addressing the issues presented.

People in all aspects of the company dislike wargamers. I remember one of the top sculptors replied to a gaming question at UK gamesday with "Don't know, gaming is for geeks mate."

 Glorioski wrote:
People in all aspects of the company dislike wargamers. I remember one of the top sculptors replied to a gaming question at UK gamesday with "Don't know, gaming is for geeks mate."

I'm sure the gross majority of people who work for McDonald's central management would say that their restaurants are for obese benefit queens.

Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

 Glorioski wrote:
Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

Man I used to work for a food allergin company. About 10% of people who used our site had actual allergies, but 90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

 Glorioski wrote:
People in all aspects of the company dislike wargamers. I remember one of the top sculptors replied to a gaming question at UK gamesday with "Don't know, gaming is for geeks mate."

This sounds more like dry British humour, something Jes Goodwin would do

 BryllCream wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

Man I used to work for a food allergin company. About 10% of people who used our site had actual allergies, but 90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

I've been working in a variety of different fields for the past 15 years (none of which include gaming), and I can say I have never liked customers. They suck. It doesn't supprise me that GW customers suck too.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
People in all aspects of the company dislike wargamers. I remember one of the top sculptors replied to a gaming question at UK gamesday with "Don't know, gaming is for geeks mate."

This sounds more like dry British humour, something Jes Goodwin would do

I don't think it was Jes Goodwin and it wasn't a joke. It might not be true, I didn't hear it myself it was just a story doing the rounds a few years back. However it's not really hard to believe there are people who have those opinions working as sculptors etc. in GW.

 Radiation wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

Man I used to work for a food allergin company. About 10% of people who used our site had actual allergies, but 90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

I've been working in a variety of different fields for the past 15 years (none of which include gaming), and I can say I have never liked customers. They suck. It doesn't supprise me that GW customers suck too.

I think it's a matter of gauging customers in large numbers to get a proper feel for where things are at. Every single company that has more than 1 customer(most all of them) will have a few customers who are never happy. My company has a few, despite those employee's bosses loving us.

So you could write off a few complaints as being part of the job. But when an entire online community such as ours has such a high population of unhappy customers or potential customers, something needs to be done about it.

To ignore customer complaints on a large level is to straight up say that you don't need/want those sales. Now, go find me an investor who is ok with companies declining sales just because they don't want to improve X.

Perhaps that is why Mark Wells stepped down. Perhaps the board told him to piss off because of this attitude and his skeevy ways of showing profits that aren't really increased revenue, just cutting costs. Companies generally don't want volume to drop and have to hike up prices to make up for it. They'd rather grow. Then again, that is all logic, and Sigmar knows that GW ignores that as much as possible.

Perhaps that is why Mark Wells stepped down. Perhaps the board told him to piss off because of this attitude and his skeevy ways of showing profits that aren't really increased revenue, just cutting costs. Companies generally don't want volume to drop and have to hike up prices to make up for it. They'd rather grow. Then again, that is all logic, and Sigmar knows that GW ignores that as much as possible.

I doubt that was the reason for Wells stepping down. Wells was hired and placed into a position where he really did not have that much authority. Kirby has been calling the shots and Wells implements his edicts. I think it is a good thing for Wells to step down and save his career.

People with vast amounts of money generally tend to have a disconnect to those with lesser fortune. That unfortunately comes from first hand experience in dealing with large corporations and those people who run it. Corporations want Sheeple to buy there product where it is good or a load of crap. Corporations do not want people who actively think about their finances and/or researching the product best for their needs.

There is one thing that I do know that after 40+ years working with models (all sorts, from RC to historicals, to miniatures) there are a lot of smart people, in all ways of life, doing similar things that I do for enjoyment.

They generally do their research on what they want before purchasing.

 BryllCream wrote:
90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

And I don't even get this. Gluten is awesome. Hell, there's a good chance that I am celiac, but one of the reasons I specifically don't get tested is because then I would have to cut wheat out.

I don't know what gluten is, but apparently it's delicious!

Gluten is the main protein component of most cereals, basically its what makes bread chewy.

 Fafnir wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

And I don't even get this. Gluten is awesome. Hell, there's a good chance that I am celiac, but one of the reasons I specifically don't get tested is because then I would have to cut wheat out.

Why? You'd keep on doing the same thing you're doing now- whatever side effects you're experiencing obviously aren't severe enough to make it worth the effort to change your diet.

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:
90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

And I don't even get this. Gluten is awesome. Hell, there's a good chance that I am celiac, but one of the reasons I specifically don't get tested is because then I would have to cut wheat out.

Why? You'd keep on doing the same thing you're doing now- whatever side effects you're experiencing obviously aren't severe enough to make it worth the effort to change your diet.

It gets worse over time, the more you consume over time, wears away your stomach lining or something. I know my father used to be able to eat bread and other gluten products just fine a few years ago, but now he gets violently ill at just the slightest bit of it.

 Aerethan wrote:

 Radiation wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
Absolutely. Case in point I work somewhere where our main customer is people who own horses. I think their hobby is ridiculous and their pet Ned would serve humanity better as an ingredient in glue.

Man I used to work for a food allergin company. About 10% of people who used our site had actual allergies, but 90% of them were whinging hypochondriacs who considered themselves too delicate to eat gluten and didn't even bother going to their GP before cutting wheat out of their diet. Suffice that to say I had nothing but contempt for those pretentious spankers

I've been working in a variety of different fields for the past 15 years (none of which include gaming), and I can say I have never liked customers. They suck. It doesn't supprise me that GW customers suck too.

I think it's a matter of gauging customers in large numbers to get a proper feel for where things are at. Every single company that has more than 1 customer(most all of them) will have a few customers who are never happy. My company has a few, despite those employee's bosses loving us.

So you could write off a few complaints as being part of the job. But when an entire online community such as ours has such a high population of unhappy customers or potential customers, something needs to be done about it.

To ignore customer complaints on a large level is to straight up say that you don't need/want those sales. Now, go find me an investor who is ok with companies declining sales just because they don't want to improve X.

Perhaps that is why Mark Wells stepped down. Perhaps the board told him to piss off because of this attitude and his skeevy ways of showing profits that aren't really increased revenue, just cutting costs. Companies generally don't want volume to drop and have to hike up prices to make up for it. They'd rather grow. Then again, that is all logic, and Sigmar knows that GW ignores that as much as possible.

Stop buying the product, that's what can be done about it. Either enough people will stop buying and GW will change or go bankrupt. However enough people keep buying the products so they have no need to change.

<Insert counter argument about GW sales declining>

Yea you have no proof, ad they are still the largest miniatures manufacturer so they must be doing something right.

The states still have the largest economy, so they must be doing something right. Er... Hmm.

A company used to turn over £340M a year, (adjusted for price inflation.)
And had appx 85% of the available market share.

Now it turns over £131M a year.
And has appx 45% of the available market share...

Just because its still the biggest company in the market , it must be doing 'something right' according to some.

Kirby is simply focusing short term profit for his own personal gain.And is not concerned about the long term future of GW plc.
No hate but definatley indifference and maybe contempt....

So, apparently this dude doesn't actually work for the company anymore, and hasn't for 12 months.

 McNinja wrote:
So, apparently this dude doesn't actually work for the company anymore, and hasn't for 12 months.

welcome to like 5 pages ago.

Still, GW should make an effort to distance themselves from him, given his attitude towards the player base and his vocal manner about said attitude.

Also, local GW manager insists that the rape/assault charges thing is some kind of pointless hoax and that Bolger is currently an officer in TX.