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almostreal wrote:

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby and all of the background and is making alot of money, which allows them to continue to make more models.

Just out of curiosity how many of the people currently making decisions at GW were around when it started?

 jonolikespie wrote:

almostreal wrote:

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby and all of the background and is making alot of money, which allows them to continue to make more models.

Just out of curiosity how many of the people currently making decisions at GW were around when it started?

None, the OG founders were bought out by management in the early 90's I do believe. How many people at your work are still there from 1975?

Right, so the people running it didn't create the hobby or the fluff, they just bought it out and started selling toys to kids.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Right, so the people running it didn't create the hobby or the fluff, they just bought it out and started selling toys to kids.

good point. For the record, I am no longer a kid and still buy a ton of toys...and probably always will. You got me tho...

almostreal wrote:
I guess I just don't get it, I consider GW a company that makes table top games and mini's. You want the games and mini's but want it to be a different company, without one I don't think you can have the other.

Of course you can have both. A smart investor buying the remains of GW would understand that the model design is (generally) good, the fluff is awesome, the rules are a good starting point to improve on (with designers who understand both general game design and miniature wargaming), and that the biggest room for improvement in marketing/retail/etc rather than the products themselves. End result: the game stays the same in the areas that it's doing well in, improves in the areas where it needs work, and the business aspects are done with a lot more competence.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
You mean like how Disney bought Lucas Arts and Star Wars?
We will see how good thing turn that out to be...

Actually that's a great example. Disney provides effectively unlimited financial support and a vast marketing and sales system, while so far they've demonstrated the ability to avoid interfering with the existing studios they've bought as long as they keep making quality (and profitable) movies. I think that the paranoia of some fans is entirely unjustified, and the result in the long run will probably be no worse than what we've already had from the Star Wars IP.

Or the new owner might just decide to scrap everything and go with a more extreme version of GW's current strategy, "marines versus marines while marines fight marines with marines and marined marines marining marines in the marine".

Can't entirely say which strategy a potential buyer might use until afterwards.

 Aerethan wrote:
How does one go from "Forceful sodomy" down to misdemeanor assault?

Somebody shop the scumbag steve hat onto a pic of Mark!!!

Post that link as a reply to his FB post on the GW page...

almostreal wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

almostreal wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

almostreal wrote:
Why do people who explicitly say "The sooner GW goes out of business the better" care enough to even post? if I don't like something I don't participate...like I don't buy GW glue anymore, but I don't make threads about it.

because disliking Games Workshop doesn't necesarily mean you dislike Warhammer 40k or Fantasy. It's quite possible to enjoy the games, fluff, models, or anything else about the games themselves and dislike the business decisions GW is making.

it's kind of like saying you don't like Lebron James, but you like the points he scores...right? you can dislike the guy but enjoy what he brings to the table. Ok, that kind of makes sense.

At the end of the day though...Liking Lebron means you have to take the bad with the good. If you enjoy the points, you have to accept the man. Like dude said above, you can't say "I hope Lebron falls in a hole, so that someone else can score his points and play his game that I like better". Well, nobody can play like lebron...GW isn't perfect but they are responsible for creating and expanding the hobby. You can't have your frosting if you don't order the cake fellas.

Bad analogy, because if he dies, then he's no longer playing.

Games Workshop have IP that can, and very likely will, live on if the company dies. They might get bought by a company which treats their customers better, which is what people hope for.

Of course, they could also get bought by a company that treats it worse than GW themselves. I personally just wish GW would do a managment changover and keep their current studio.

I guess I just don't get it, I consider GW a company that makes table top games and mini's. You want the games and mini's but want it to be a different company, without one I don't think you can have the other.

Of course you can, because IP can be traded. If GW decided to sell the Warhammer 40k rights to, say, Wizards of the Coast (god help us), then you'd have Warhammer 40k without Games workshop.

If you want to continue your analogy, instead think of the player as the Warhammer 40k IP, and the team as Games Workshop. Then it works.

Basically, people want to keep playing 40k and Fantasy and other Games Workshop games with a competent managment team in charge. If that means GW 'cleaning house', so to speak, or the Warhammer 40k or Fantasy rights transferring to another company, same thing. The company doesn't matter - as long as the product that winds up on the shelf improves in whatever ways it needs to.

Same as a sports team might transfer a player who sucks (basically the event of GW cleaning house), or die outright and someone else taking over with the current lineup (in the case of GW dying outright and the IP being bought).

Of course you can, because IP can be traded. If GW decided to sell the Warhammer 40k rights to, say, Wizards of the Coast (god help us), then you'd have Warhammer 40k without Games workshop.

If that were to happen I would immediately call up my broker and buy up shares in Hasbro.

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby and all of the background and is making alot of money, which allows them to continue to make more models.

um, wut? GW didn't create gaming, tabletop or otherwise. They didn't create models as a concept, they didn't create sci fi, they didn't even create Chaos or space marines. And those who did design the origins of the games and stories are long gone from the company. Tom Kirby deserves credit for nothing other than price hikes.

GW's recent sins are starting to outweigh their good deeds of ages past.

I honestly do think that you should consider that this same company that hates you and your hobby has also created the hobby

Wow, Games Workshop created miniature wargames? They better build a time machine and go sue HG Wells!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Wars

Also those dirty sauerbraten-eating Prussians, too!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsspiel_(wargame)

Also, as stated, the people who are at GW now sure as hell didn't create GW's games and universes.

 scipio.au wrote:

 Aerethan wrote:
How does one go from "Forceful sodomy" down to misdemeanor assault?

Somebody shop the scumbag steve hat onto a pic of Mark!!!

Post that link as a reply to his FB post on the GW page...

Is the original post still up? I'll do it.

I don't really care if he is still working for GW or not, the thing that annoys me is the fact that he was clearly insulting a lot of the long-time hobbyists, I know plenty who dislike the one-man stores because it's basically GW turning around and saying 'hey, we are are going to stop supporting our own games and downsize stores, only having one staff run them'. Also the fact that he wouldn't even have a wage if it wasn't for us hobbyists buying GW's product.

Imagine you're not into anything geeky. You're a normal dude who went to business school and nothing about you is outside of the mainstream. You end up working at a company that happens to make little plastic soldiers that are meant to be sold to 12 year olds. It's got a yes-men corporate culture and that's okay by you because you know how to get along. And then you keep encountering people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond who also buy your product. You'd probably have little or no sympathy or understanding for them. At best you'd probably consider them sad and at worst you'd consider them rubes that the company you work for gets to fleece.

I think GW has a lot of contempt for it's customers that are not part of the target demographic.

agustin wrote:
Imagine you're not into anything geeky. You're a normal dude who went to business school and nothing about you is outside of the mainstream. You end up working at a company that happens to make little plastic soldiers that are meant to be sold to 12 year olds. It's got a yes-men corporate culture and that's okay by you because you know how to get along. And then you keep encountering people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond who also buy your product. You'd probably have little or no sympathy or understanding for them. At best you'd probably consider them sad and at worst you'd consider them rubes that the company you work for gets to fleece.

And I'd also consider the hypothetical "you" an idiot who didn't bother to learn about the company you're working for or the products they produce, and therefore "you" should be fired and replaced with someone who isn't an idiot. And you'd really deserve it because, in a world where video games are big business, even "mainstream" people have at least heard about D&D, etc, you have to be deliberately ignorant to miss the fact that older people buy and play wargames.

Now, I understand that GW's primary role is to act as a charity and provide employment for idiots who wouldn't last 15 minutes at a real company, but even they should have limits.

Send a screenshot to their HQ, asking them if that was considered proper behavior.

 Ugavine wrote:
Not very professional, but he has a point, this hobby is overflowing with whiners.

Complaining about a huge drop in 3rd party store support (orders being wrong or failing to arrive) when a GW opens up in town is whining?

I really don't believe GW fans are any more likely to whine than any other group of people.

 -Loki- wrote:
[

Of course, they could also get bought by a company that treats it worse than GW themselves.

Unless they start to torture people not buying their stuff, I highly doubt that's possible

jonolikespie wrote:Right, so the people running it didn't create the hobby or the fluff, they just bought it out and started selling toys to kids.

In a nutshell.

agustin wrote:Imagine you're not into anything geeky. You're a normal dude who went to business school and nothing about you is outside of the mainstream. You end up working at a company that happens to make little plastic soldiers that are meant to be sold to 12 year olds. It's got a yes-men corporate culture and that's okay by you because you know how to get along. And then you keep encountering people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond who also buy your product. You'd probably have little or no sympathy or understanding for them. At best you'd probably consider them sad and at worst you'd consider them rubes that the company you work for gets to fleece.

I think GW has a lot of contempt for it's customers that are not part of the target demographic.

Some years ago the collective pejorative I heard was 'sheep', although there have been other, less kind expressions thrown around. But yes, you're absolutely right.

 Pacific wrote:


Some years ago the collective pejorative I heard was 'sheep', although there have been other, less kind expressions thrown around. But yes, you're absolutely right.

They certainly have. It has cropped up a number of times. To quote myself:

 filbert wrote:
This has come up before in another discussion about things GW have said. Here's what they have previously said about their customers:

filbert wrote:...GW call their customers things like "Geek, Gomer, Sheep, and Pleb"....

From the following threads:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/420/369325.page#2981277

http://www.infinitythegame.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=5052&pid=96428#pid96428

Edit: Boo, the Infinity forum with the original quotes has disappeared. +1 Internets to anyone that can find it!

You mean this one?
http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/5023-are-you-a-faction-whore/page__st__120__hl__gomer#entry95927

That's the one - +1 internets to you then.

Just to address a previous comment (sorry for the slight detour)

The social networking of games workshop has so much disdain on it for a few reasons, I'll compare to PP because I'm more familiar with them and I think they have done very well.

Firstly... there is nothing to be excited about on the GW page, we get the occasional "Oh look, here is a crap video saying were going to release something next month... but we wont actually tell you what"

PP shows pre released models on their site early on. People think how cool they look and are happy about them. They don't really need a huge amount of censorship because when a negative comment is posted the community will tell them why they are wrong, and it ends their.

When asked earlier "do you expect them to have a 24 hour mod on facebook" last i checked this comment was up for over ten hours? even if it is not 24 hours a day to neglect a site for this amount of time, for any business is awful policy. Even if he is an ex employee games workshop should have at least removed the post, and clarified that this was not their position, they have however neglected it and will put any more talk about it down too "Whiney fans"

I posted my own angry reply to the same GW post, but I went ahead and deleted it myself. Let's face it, anything negative won't stay up for long anyway and I basically said "I would bet money GW management thinks the same way, or worse."

agustin wrote:
Imagine you're not into anything geeky. You're a normal dude who went to business school and nothing about you is outside of the mainstream. You end up working at a company that happens to make little plastic soldiers that are meant to be sold to 12 year olds. It's got a yes-men corporate culture and that's okay by you because you know how to get along. And then you keep encountering people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and beyond who also buy your product. You'd probably have little or no sympathy or understanding for them. At best you'd probably consider them sad and at worst you'd consider them rubes that the company you work for gets to fleece.

I think GW has a lot of contempt for it's customers that are not part of the target demographic.

I dunno. Hasbro found itself in a situation similar to that and they responded by engaging and making things intended for that unexpected demographic.

Also... they have a target market of kids?
I don't know about other people, but assuming the current points that Games workshop works towards in 40k being around 2000 points. When I was 14 I didn't have £400 to spend...

 Sigvatr wrote:
Send a screenshot to their HQ, asking them if that was considered proper behavior.

I thought it was established he no longer works there (whatever he may claim on FB)

So one guy vents on Facebook about his work. Who cares?

I'm more concerned about the overall policies of the company towards their customers than this one guy spouting off on FB.

Are twelve year olds really the target demographic? I actually did start at that age and I remember that Games workshop Nottingham and Warhammer world used to be very much dominated by people my age but now I'm 22 and I feel I'm usually the youngest person in store.

Ivan Issaccs wrote:
Are twelve year olds really the target demographic? I actually did start at that age and I remember that Games workshop Nottingham and Warhammer world used to be very much dominated by people my age but now I'm 22 and I feel I'm usually the youngest person in store.

Thats the thing everyone was a "little timmy" at one point, however little timmy became big timmy. Big timmy could afford more so GW increased the price while thinking it was still little timmy they were selling to (so to speak, very awkwardly styled )