GrimDork wrote: @Squall if those peacekeepers go the distance and look good at production... my marines will be dead to me, terminators are the only *cool* thing the space marines do that I don't like something else better.
Holy crap! That peacekeeper on the bike is amazing I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it's so full of win. Zero-cheesecake, totally serious, sick-ass monobike
Automatically Appended Next Post: Are these pictures in the survey or is my internet being wonky about registering the update?
I'm a huge fan too. Thats why these stuck out. I would use those in my 40k games and love every second of it. All that being said, we still need to see the final product before we get TOO far ahead of ourselves. Still pretty exciting.
The monobike is not for me. You are right on it not being cheesecake, but the idea of a monobike in a warzone has always struck me as silly. How stable can that thing be. I understand thats just as silly, coming from a man who plays with space marines, but its just a personal hang up. Its not bad looking for what it is though.
@nkelsch I think their fantasy zombie sprue has more packed in, although it *is* for a fantasy game where you tend to have movement trays and a bit of spare space to put casualties, extra shields, and the like.
Hey there was a page flip, did you guys notice this?
With the time/quality constraints we face, we are going to make both the Asterians and Forge Fathers in Resin Plastic as we first announced during the Kickstarter. We did suggest at one point they would go hard plastic too, but with the amount of hard plastic we’d need to do now we’ve seen the Zombies, the delays would be unacceptable.
GrimDork wrote: Hey there was a page flip, did you guys notice this?
With the time/quality constraints we face, we are going to make both the Asterians and Forge Fathers in Resin Plastic as we first announced during the Kickstarter. We did suggest at one point they would go hard plastic too, but with the amount of hard plastic we’d need to do now we’ve seen the Zombies, the delays would be unacceptable.
About par for the course at this point, unfortunately.
I was in for "one of everything" as it was, so I ordered and intend to keep both faction starters and boosters, though I don't think I'll be getting any extras.
@ToT it is the enforcer recon on infiltrator bike. She's meant to be more along the lines of Recon N-whatever, than a standard peacekeeper in full body armor.
With the time/quality constraints we face, we are going to make both the Asterians and Forge Fathers in Resin Plastic as we first announced during the Kickstarter. We did suggest at one point they would go hard plastic too, but with the amount of hard plastic we’d need to do now we’ve seen the Zombies, the delays would be unacceptable.
I get people are all about timetables, I suppose it is the only thing left Mantic can claim... But it seems wasteful to produce the same model in multiple processes and materials.
I don't know about you guys, but I would always choose 'delay with superior end product' over 'on time, less quality product'. I wonder if they gave people an option of 'wait for hard plastic' how many backers would choose that over restic?
GrimDork wrote: I was in for "one of everything" as it was, so I ordered and intend to keep both faction starters and boosters, though I don't think I'll be getting any extras.
I will probably end up buying them as well, but it would have been SO MUCH COOLER if they had done them in hard plastic. I kind of expected this though.
GrimDork wrote: @nkelsch I think their fantasy zombie sprue has more packed in, although it *is* for a fantasy game where you tend to have movement trays and a bit of spare space to put casualties, extra shields, and the like.
Nope, it's actually quite light on components, the warpath sprue has more with 5 different legs and bodies, 7 heads and 10 seperate arms:
Plague Zombie sprue is awesome, million times better than the men-at-arms.
I'd wait for sure. Besides the fact that it would let them have the hard plastic frames to sell at a later date (freeing up some space in the future WP kickstarter), I do prefer HP over restic.
@SS you are correct, maybe it was the ghoul sprue... or no.. probably the skeleton sprue that I was really thinking of when I said zombies. I clipped all of them out ages ago so I was remembering incorrectly, thanks for setting me straight
GrimDork wrote: Hey there was a page flip, did you guys notice this?
With the time/quality constraints we face, we are going to make both the Asterians and Forge Fathers in Resin Plastic as we first announced during the Kickstarter. We did suggest at one point they would go hard plastic too, but with the amount of hard plastic we’d need to do now we’ve seen the Zombies, the delays would be unacceptable.
Yeah, that is disappointing, but it just means I'll end up saving money here, and waiting to see what happens during the inevitable Warpath KS.
Oh! Oh oh oh! Those fugging zombies DON'T HAVE THE FUGGING INTEGRATED BASES!!! Zomg WIN!
I think the missing integrated bases alone have sold me on the 80 zombie bundle! And the 2 for $20 striders too.
Squall said
I will probably end up buying them as well, but it would have been SO MUCH COOLER if they had done them in hard plastic. I kind of expected this though.
I'm just glad the zombies and peacekeepers, and enforcers are going through. The other two kits would have been great, but at least they're doing 3 kits out of potential 5, instead of none.
You're right Grim, I didn't even notice that. I wonder what the bases will look like or if they will expect you to just flip the regular base over and use the bottom.
My big mech is pretty sharp. I realize it's a new tool or whatever, but I'm not concerned about that point at all.
Holy crap at the new stuff not pictured yet: Sorak Swordspawn Plague enforcer (saves me the effort!) fusion/thermal gun enforcer couple of other things.
And I suspect you would just flip the standard mantic base, it's easy and doesn't require any more work.
Hey there's a thought, did we ever ask if the crazy 80 zombies for $45 included bases?
I think they did say, 'might' for those two, though. So, I, personally, am not too upset about that. I can certainly understand if others were miffed though. - They're coming right out and offering a refund though.
In other news... To echo a half dozen other people. HOLY CRAP.
An extract from my survey:
Light Support Vehicles
Female Enforcer Pathfinder on Infiltrator Bike and on Foot - $20: 1
Corporation Strider (usable by Rebs or Enforcers in Deadzone) - $20: 2
Plague Strider - $20: 1
Marauder Stuntbot - $20:
Forge Father Iron Ancestor (Deadzone Version) - $20:
--------
6 support vehicles. 6! And I already have 2 dreadball Big Mechs. Flipping heck.
Redacted. I thought it said the compendium was 3 books now, but I think that's only at release, I think the proper limited edition compendium is still all one piece.
I am just so happy with this update. Only downer is no hard plastic forgefathers/ asterians, which is a bit of a shame since that's $100 I was going to spend (on FF/ Asterian starters and boosters). I.. just can't deal with anymore restic piles right now!
Oh well, maybe the Warpath KS will make it happen.
Compel wrote: I think they did say, 'might' for those two, though. So, I, personally, am not too upset about that. I can certainly understand if others were miffed though. - They're coming right out and offering a refund though.
In other news... To echo a half dozen other people. HOLY CRAP.
An extract from my survey:
Light Support Vehicles
Female Enforcer Pathfinder on Infiltrator Bike and on Foot - $20: 1
Corporation Strider (usable by Rebs or Enforcers in Deadzone) - $20: 2
Plague Strider - $20: 1
Marauder Stuntbot - $20:
Forge Father Iron Ancestor (Deadzone Version) - $20:
--------
6 support vehicles. 6! And I already have 2 dreadball Big Mechs. Flipping heck.
@SS Yeah, I think for the FF, at least they were elite/limited units that didn't make the plastic cut. I would have really liked to see the cyphers in HP. I'm sure those we get will still be nice enough.
And someone with a better eye for words read over that compendium bit, maybe they just mean there will be three books for normal orders that didn't order the compendium, and the big book itself is unchanged. I got lost in the words, better go paint instead.
So you double both strider variants but not the stunt bot or the iron ancestor? The bargain makes me happy to order the first two, but a bit reluctant to get a mech for the latter two factions =/
GrimDork wrote: So you double both strider variants but not the stunt bot or the iron ancestor? The bargain makes me happy to order the first two, but a bit reluctant to get a mech for the latter two factions =/
Yes. Corp/Reb/Plague Strider is 2 for 1. The rest are not. They said a lot of people ordered the Strider so they are able to do a deal.
Same with the bike, the render is great but $20 may be a bit too much. pretty much the worst value on the survey, but then again it is packed with massive value elsewhere.
The Strider is now being made in PVC restic where as the Stunt bot, Pathfinder and Iron Ancestor upgrades are being made from "premium resin" hence the prices.
How the hell is this gals foot touching the ground flat footed?
I'm worried about the big things in restic. If the Marauder gun track is any indication, we are in for soft detail and bad mold lines. That is really going to distract from what should be a center piece for an army.
CptJake wrote: How the hell is this gals foot touching the ground flat footed
She's extending her leg. If you notice, she's leaning onto her right leg that is on the ground and her left leg is bent. She's also at an angle on the seat pointed down to the right side.
DaveC wrote: The Strider is now being made in PVC restic where as the Stunt bot, Pathfinder and Iron Ancestor upgrades are being made from "premium resin" hence the prices.
I would rather a higher price and a higher quality. 2 soft detailed lumps of mold line covered restic is not better than one nicely cast resin in my opinion.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Anyone know if the two free compendiums are additive? I.e. if I pledge +$750, do I get a free hardback and a free softback?
CptJake wrote: How the hell is this gals foot touching the ground flat footed
She's extending her leg. If you notice, she's leaning onto her right leg that is on the ground and her left leg is bent. She's also at an angle on the seat pointed down to the right side.
Her right leg has to be a lot longer than her left. The left is not bent much and that bike is straight up.
I'll say again that I like my DZ big mechs, and they're fairly large.
@CptJake hmm... good question. The seat is actually lower than it looks perhaps? It's a digital sculpt it seems like it would be difficult to get two different leg lengths if they checked... at all.
The stuntbot and IA are in resin? Excellent, guess I'll get one each then as well.
Question dakka, based on the wording about missing bits survey and so on, do you think I should go ahead and submit the missing bits survey for my entire order, even though I've already been in contact with mantic about it and had responses? The wording makes me think that maybe I should, though I'm pretty sure they were supposed to be planning on sorting my order before the missing pieces survey responses got filled. Thoughts?
The Dreadball PVC Big Mech turned out fine no issues with soft details or mold lines on either of mine. I wasn't going to order any striders but at 2 for $20 I'll get a set.
DaveC wrote: The Strider is now being made in PVC restic where as the Stunt bot, Pathfinder and Iron Ancestor upgrades are being made from "premium resin" hence the prices.
Is that confirmed/really going to happen/not going to change later, unannounced?
GrimDork wrote: I'll say again that I like my DZ big mechs, and they're fairly large.
@CptJake hmm... good question. The seat is actually lower than it looks perhaps? It's a digital sculpt it seems like it would be difficult to get two different leg lengths if they checked... at all.
The stuntbot and IA are in resin? Excellent, guess I'll get one each then as well.
Question dakka, based on the wording about missing bits survey and so on, do you think I should go ahead and submit the missing bits survey for my entire order, even though I've already been in contact with mantic about it and had responses? The wording makes me think that maybe I should, though I'm pretty sure they were supposed to be planning on sorting my order before the missing pieces survey responses got filled. Thoughts?
Submit it via the form to make sure you are covered.
As for the bike, the right foot looks over sized compared to the smaller though closer (to the viewer) left foot. Something is very off about that.
DaveC wrote: The Strider is now being made in PVC restic where as the Stunt bot, Pathfinder and Iron Ancestor upgrades are being made from "premium resin" hence the prices.
Is that confirmed/really going to happen/not going to change later, unannounced?
Because if so, I'll get a few extra...
That's the wording on the Survey Alpharius
Light Support Vehicles are a great way to expand your force in bigger games, allowing your faction to hit hard and fast where it's needed most! These are supplied in premium resin unless marked with a *
* 2 Corporation/Plague/Rebs Striders- $20
Plastic Figure with options to build 3 variants.
@SS it depends on how you parse out your zombie models! The zombie units go through a lot of bodies without a whole lot of cost IIRC, but if you take the weaponized zombies and combine them with the 3rd gens... yeah woohoo. $45 add-on to my current pledge to have another warpath army is a pretty easy pill to swallow
Mantic let me know I was sorted, shortly after I sent the form to cover my butt anyway
For anyone curious... here's a 1200 point Warpath army you can make using just the Plague starter + $45 of Plague zombies. (and the 5 free you get anyway).
Take 85 zombies, build 25 with guns as 3rd gens and you're sorted.
There's even 2 dogs left over at the end of it!
Even by Mantic standards, throwing in an extra $45 to end up with a full army with nearly 100 models is an absolute bargain.
And there's the Plague Striders as well, which are a steal at 2 for $20 if you want to round it out.
I was actually going to ask this.
Are plague zombies different than 3As?
Yep, but no-one is going to mind if you use a bunch of zombies with guns as the 3A's instead.. you could even stick to the armoured military torsos and legs for the 3As if you wanted.
Hm the female enforcer looks nice, but would love to see more shots, only comment I can possibly give is the chest armour seems to need a bit more consideration of the female form, NO that does not mean boob armour, it means that it feels at least from this angle as wider than it should be.
Does that mean they'd consider switching some of these new figures to a different material if there's enough interest?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Don't give them any ideas!
I don't have any interest in building a Warpath army at the moment (or should I say, not enough marital latitude to do so?), but that is a very good deal Squig's describing. For me, it's looking like I'll have my 3rd gen problem (namely, I can't stand most of them) sorted with one zombie sprue. They should go nicely with my Chaos cultists.
Only thing is the sprue contains a couple of guns, but no guns with arms and hands attached. So it's either lego weapon hands or weapon hand swaps for those who want zombies as 3rd gens.
Especially if you added ANY (real) Plastic Zombies in Survey 1 - any you add now count towards getting the 'deal', so, yeah, this one is kind of an easy decision!
I'm just so glad we're avoiding another men-at-arms thing.
Note the slide-core tooling on the legs to create a ball and socket join for the torso, and compatibility with the KoW zombies. Hard plastic *can* have undercuts.
I do think, to some extent the sheer amount of noise on the topic that the internet (and especially Dakka) makes on the topic has pushed Mantic in the right direction. Without that persistent and repeated request for quality sprues who knows what the zombie sprue might have looked like?
Mantic do listen and try to do what they can, and eventually they get it sorted. It has always been the case with the company, they land on their feet.
Regarding the Zombie guns and hands 2 of the arms have no hand I think the hand might be molded to the guns at least it was in an earlier version.
You can also see they split the "zombie eating guts" torso into 2 parts as well - 2nd body from top with plug hole in it and 3rd piece in the centre row.
EDIT ah 1 of the guns goes on the back - the top gun has a peg to insert on the torso - so it's not meant to be held in the hand that means if you buy 4 sets plus your extra sprue you get 17 zombies holding a gun one handed and 17 with it on their back.
Quick semi-related note since clear plastic bases were discussed earlier - I've just had a chat with Renedra and they're quite interested in/ curious about the idea of running their 25mm round base sprue in clear plastic (although they're so busy at the moment it'll probably have to wait until after Salute to experiment with it)
Would anyone here be interested in buying something like that from them?
I've been inspired by GrimDork's project log and a similar topic in the DZ section of the Mantic forums to base *everything* sci-fi/ skirmish on clear plastic from now on, and I'm loving it.. the only holdup is the expense of laser cut acrylic (and it's not the ideal material either, scratches too easy, have to peel off smelly burnt plastic film from each side). Quite keen to buy around 1000 clear round bases myself (prep for the WP KS ).
The zombie sprue looks like a step in the right direction, since they're broken up into more pieces and don't have those stupid bases. They could still improve things by doubling up on cavities per "box" since they currently have zero options for arms and the sculpts themselves are still Plague crap, but they're getting there.
Well I obviously love clear acrylics. What's this about smelly burnt parts?
I've been taking my photos on sedition wars play mats and it totally enforces my love for clear bases. Wherever you go, there you are definitely applies to the bases.
I really like the thin bases though, I would have to see normal/standard clear bases in action. That said... I will be needing more so I'm potentially interested (though across the pond).
I think plague get it best when making a force from the ks. Zombies mean HP troop options, a lot of big scary characters and elites from the s2 and terrortons. And it should be reasonably easy to scrounge up some gribblies to round out a unit of plague swarms and any old mortar looking bit with a couple of s3...
Well, sad that the FF's are back to resin plastic, but I pledged for them back when they were, so it is hardly going to change much about it. And vehicles going to two for $20 means I now have four Iron Ancestors coming my way (among a load of others). So I'm not too perturbed by any of this.
The zombies look fantastic as well.
Not decided on what (if anything) I'll be adding for the second survey. At the very least the new FF vehicle, maybe a few connector sprues and perhaps a few more packs of the plastic Peacekeepers (and maybe some more Enforcers in general). That and whatever any of my friends end up ordering (it has become fairly popular with the rest of the group, so much that we've played it several weeks in a row. That's a rare thing for my group).
pretre wrote: Dammit, no option for additional pledge levels. (i.e. no '+1 Strike team package')
Now that is interesting. Especially since I'm certain they said that everything would be available again in the survey. Oversight, or more Mantic Bait-and-Switch?
Anyone know if they're allowing people to add on individual figures in the comments section? Losing the ability to buy single figures would sting a bit for people that wanted to, say, bulk out a force of Rebs Kraaws etc. Without the ability to buy figures individually, customizing your force will get very expensive very fast (and basically make some force configurations financially out of reach altogether).
Souleater wrote: All the models are available - not all of the deals.
I was expecting this, tbh.
Yeah, letter of the word, but not the spirit.
Ah well, I might grab a few more figures like the Zombies, but looks like I'll be skipping DZ as a game in that case. It also makes it easier to not spend more money on Mars Attacks - I think I'll skip getting the $300 one-click and buying a ton of scenery as extras and just spend all my credit on terrain. Saves me from getting a ton of figures in restic, I guess!
I'm getting a ton of figures in restic. My approach will be to assemble things and then paint them. I don't get a lot of games (read: none) around here at the moment, so I can go through and build things for the purpose of painting them, rather than churning out the whole retail box or strike team in as few sittings as possible so I can get gaming.
Which is probably the only reason I won't be going mad when my stuff finally does arrive and there's enough models to choke multiple consecutive beasts of burden. Hell, by the time I'm done I'll probably have scrapped off enough restic/plastic to choke a small breed dog. What a way to go =/
@Solkan I saw that :( I forced myself to drop the AW bundles of awesome and amazing for a larger number of accessory sprues (probably still less $ overall). I have the fact that battle systems has a lot of cool terrain for scattering about... but I'm still sorely tempted.
Aw man, I was gonna get a couple more Ripper Suits just because, but we can't order them individually this time around, and I don't want a whole other booster pack to go with them. Guess I have to hope the ripper suits come separately in blisters at retail.
scarletsquig wrote: Quick semi-related note since clear plastic bases were discussed earlier - I've just had a chat with Renedra and they're quite interested in/ curious about the idea of running their 25mm round base sprue in clear plastic (although they're so busy at the moment it'll probably have to wait until after Salute to experiment with it)
Would anyone here be interested in buying something like that from them?
I would buy at least 500 of them immediately. 25mm, 40mm, 60mm.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the most exciting thing about this is how great the space zombies look... and they are a mixture of hard lines and organics.
This means Mantic has a clear pathway for the Warpath release to be huge. and possibly at Space Zombie prices.
scarletsquig 502i957 6496889 77386c402334cf342362cc45ec26b172.png wrote:Quick semi-related note since clear plastic bases were discussed earlier - I've just had a chat with Renedra and they're quite interested in/ curious about the idea of running their 25mm round base sprue in clear plastic (although they're so busy at the moment it'll probably have to wait until after Salute to experiment with it)
Would anyone here be interested in buying something like that from them?
I've been inspired by GrimDork's project log and a similar topic in the DZ section of the Mantic forums to base *everything* sci-fi/ skirmish on clear plastic from now on, and I'm loving it.. the only holdup is the expense of laser cut acrylic (and it's not the ideal material either, scratches too easy, have to peel off smelly burnt plastic film from each side). Quite keen to buy around 1000 clear round bases myself (prep for the WP KS ).
Hm, I'm not sure - While I theoretically think clear bases might look good, I'm afraid there'll be ugly misting from the glue. Did you have any problems with that? Furthermore, I usually like to pin my models to the base, so I don't know how that'll look.
On the other hand - peeling off plastic film is to me one of the MAJOR assets of laser-cut acrylic. I love doing that as much as other people on the internet love popping bubble wrap - so maybe I should simply buy a thousand of those just for fun!
^ That's one of the other benefits that a proper clear polystyrene sprue would offer, besides a lower price point.
Acrylic fogs with superglue (unless you're very careful and use a small amount), with polystyrene you could use plastic glue which doesn't. Well, on hard plastics, anyway.
Thanks for the feedback everyone, had some PMs, feel free to send me more if a clear round sprue is something you'd jump on (don't want to divert this thread too much) and eventually I'll collect them up and quote you all in a big email.. at the moment the main issue for them would be volume, they would need to make a bulk purchase of crystal HIPs pellets to make it work, and they don't tool anything else in the material currently so they would need to be sure of good sales first.
Anyway, back to the Mantic stuff, it definitely does bode well for the Warpath KS that's coming later this year.
If they have $50k stretch goals per each one of those sprues, and sell them at the same ridiculous price point (almost 50 cents per mini! what more could you want? ), maybe throwing in a free sprue of 5 each time as the stretch reward... it will go nuts.
But yes, they do need to triple their customer service staff before then!
I imagine it's a bit nuts for the company at the moment since they're also moving their premises into an abandoned hospital which needs a complete refit of all the plumbing and electrics.
Acrylic fogs with superglue (unless you're very careful and use a small amount), with polystyrene you could use plastic glue which doesn't. Well, on hard plastics, anyway.
My experience from making mistakes on hobby kit models of aircraft tells me that plastic cement can and does fog up clear polystyrene, which means you would need to be just as careful as you would have using superglue on acrylic.
Alpharius wrote: Thanks Dave - I guess I'll roll the dice on them.
This:
* 2 Corporation/Plague/Rebs Striders- $20
Plastic Figure with options to build 3 variants.
Makes me nervous though, as we know those things aren't 'plastic' in the sense that everyone NORMALLY uses that word.
I promise you its not everyone, it is a small subset of wargamers who don't consider PVC a plastic.
To the rest of the world plastic covers more than grey injection molded hard polystyrene.
OK?
But you will concede the point that the target customers for Mantic, and the vast majority of readers here on Dakka Dakka don't think of 'restic' or 'PVC' when they see the word "Plastic" though, right?
Alpharius wrote: Thanks Dave - I guess I'll roll the dice on them.
This:
* 2 Corporation/Plague/Rebs Striders- $20
Plastic Figure with options to build 3 variants.
Makes me nervous though, as we know those things aren't 'plastic' in the sense that everyone NORMALLY uses that word.
I promise you its not everyone, it is a small subset of wargamers who don't consider PVC a plastic.
To the rest of the world plastic covers more than grey injection molded hard polystyrene.
OK?
But you will concede the point that the target customers for Mantic, and the vast majority of readers here on Dakka Dakka don't think of 'restic' or 'PVC' when they see the word "Plastic" though, right?
I can't really comment on dakka dakka readers word association results but what really matters is what they understand by the term. Personally I think of shampoo bottles or plastic bags. I don't however consider it a negative that mantic models are not polyethylene or assume they are.
In the context of miniature models, most of us use the word for material that can be glued with plastic cement.
We do actually know that other sorts of plastic are also plastic.
I am trying to be a smartass but I'm principally trying to point out the originally quoted post is factually incorrect and that makes it an very unfair criticism to make.
@Fenris - Thanks for the tip! I've also had someone recommend aquarium sealant as a good clear glue to use. Some things for me to try.
Looks like the comments on the latest KS update are primarily a lot of "we'd rather wait for hard plastic ff/asterians" which is interesting. I threw in my 2 cents on the topic as well since I strongly agree.
It is probably too late to change anything for Deadzone, but it might be worth making your opinion heard if you agree since it could benefit the quality of the product in future if Mantic realises that it has patient backers who would prefer to wait for quality.
Certainly, Kingdom Death backers had no problems with the delays there to upgrade restic to hard plastic. I think Mantic just needs a little reassurance that we won't eat them alive if they miss a ship deadline by a month or two.
@drag- Actually, what's unfair is for Mantic to continually, arbitrarily use the term "plastic". Call it a unicorn, call it whatever you like. But you need to distinguish between the various materials you sell models in. They use injection molded polystyrene (glueable with plastic cement), hand cast resin, and PVC. Call the three whatever you like, but for goodness sake be consistent. They've done a "bait and switch" with these terms a number of times now, and it has created a distrust with the company's statements.
@squig- It should be obvious by now to them that people vastly prefer quality product slightly late to poor product exactly on-time. If it isn't yet, please pass that along for, you know, all of us
scarletsquig wrote: Quick semi-related note since clear plastic bases were discussed earlier - I've just had a chat with Renedra and they're quite interested in/ curious about the idea of running their 25mm round base sprue in clear plastic (although they're so busy at the moment it'll probably have to wait until after Salute to experiment with it)
Would anyone here be interested in buying something like that from them?
I've been inspired by GrimDork's project log and a similar topic in the DZ section of the Mantic forums to base *everything* sci-fi/ skirmish on clear plastic from now on, and I'm loving it.. the only holdup is the expense of laser cut acrylic (and it's not the ideal material either, scratches too easy, have to peel off smelly burnt plastic film from each side). Quite keen to buy around 1000 clear round bases myself (prep for the WP KS ).
I'd be interested in something like that. I'd need 40mm bases though.
Initially I was sad to see the deals weren't all available on the second survey, as my pledge had been screwed up initially. However after viewing a friends Deadzone bundle I wasn't all that enthused and I don't think they were too impressed either.
Hopefully Mantic will do some nice hard plastic Warpath kickstarter funded figures without a plethora of snafus.
RiTides wrote: @drag- Actually, what's unfair is for Mantic to continually, arbitrarily use the term "plastic". Call it a unicorn, call it whatever you like. But you need to distinguish between the various materials you sell models in. They use injection molded polystyrene (glueable with plastic cement), hand cast resin, and PVC. Call the three whatever you like, but for goodness sake be consistent. They've done a "bait and switch" with these terms a number of times now, and it has created a distrust with the company's statements.
@squig- It should be obvious by now to them that people vastly prefer quality product slightly late to poor product exactly on-time. If it isn't yet, please pass that along for, you know, all of us
"Plastic" is a catch all it applies to all of them, it existed before mantic and will more than likely be around long after them. The problem is certain people have added a context specific meaning to the word that is both non-universal and technically inaccurate, While is is common practice is just foolish to expect others to use the word the same way especially when they have to communicate with a far wider audience and the term is so ambiguous.
I'd rather have hard polystyrene asterians and FF even if there was a wait, even if that wait wassay 6 months. I can only imagine the gak storm that would commence if mantic announced a delay of that length.
Right, it is about time someone listed the contents of the survey *outside* of the survey, so everyone can plan properly.
I'll edit this post with all things Survey 2, and then copy+paste into the OP and the mantic subforum thread to make it easier for everyone than navigating the form and trying not to accidentally submit it. Feel free to copy + paste to any forum you want.
Deadzone Survey 2 Contents
Note: New stuff is picked out in red.
Page 1
Faction Starters - $35 each or 2 for $50 (Must have pledge of scout and up to qualify for the 2 for $50).
Faction Boosters - $20 each or any 4 for $60
Faction Booster Bundles - $50 each (BUY ONE GET ONE FREE)
Plague Zombies - $15 for 20, or $45 for 80 (stacks with previous survey, if you ordered 1 then, order another 3 to qualify for the deal)
4 Metal Dead Figures (1 Enforcer, 1 Plague, 1 Rebs, and 1 Marauders) - $15
Page 2
Resin Female Enforcer Pathfinder on Infiltrator Bike and on Foot - $20
2 Restic Corporation/Plague/Rebs Striders - $20
Resin Marauder Stuntbot - $20
Hybrid Restic/Resin Forge Father Iron Ancestor (Deadzone Version) - $20
Metal The Helfather - $8
Metal Chovar Psychic - $10
Metal Boomer, Hobgoblin Grenadier - $8
Restic The Survivor (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Metal Alternate Survivor - $8
Doctor Gayle Simmonds - $8
Recon Unit N32-19 - $8
Nastanza, Twilight Huntress - $8
Wrath - $8
Blaine (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Codename: Oberon (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Freya (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Metal special character bundle (all 6 minis below) - $45
Enforcer Sergeant Howlett - $8
Kish, 3rd Generation Plague Sphyr - $8
Eddak P'mera, Yndij Hunter - $8
Chief Radgrad - Orc Warlord in Ripper Suit - $12
Nem-Rath, Asterian Shuutavar - $8
Bjarg Starnafall, Forge Father in Orbital Drop Armour - $8
Page 3(fnarr fnarr)
NEW! Warpath Enforcer with Thermal Rifle/Fusion Gun (1 Metal Figure) - $5
Hard Plastic Enforcers in Peacekeeper Armour x 5 - $10
Warpath Enforcer Captain - $10
NEW! Plague Enforcer with Experimental Weapon - $5
NEW! Rebs Sorak Swordspawn with Combat Knives - $5
Rebs Sorak - $2
NEW! Marauder Upgrade Pack (5 Metal Helmeted Heads + BFGs + Special Weapons) - $5
NEW! Mawbeast - $5
Warpath Marauder Warlord - $10
NEW! Asterian Pulse Bombard Weapon Drone Upgrade - $5
NEW! Forge Father Jotunn Urban Demolisher - $15
Warpath Forge Father Huscarl - $8
Warpath Forge Father Thorgarim Hero - $8
Page 4
Urban Fight - One BattleZone: $25
Urban Skirmish - Two BattleZones: $50 (contains a free accessory sprue)
Urban Battle - Four BattleZones: $95 (contains two free accessory sprues)
Urban War - Eight BattleZones: $185 (contains four free accessory sprues)
Urban Apocalypse - Twelve BattleZones: $280 (contains six free accessory sprues)
I have also curtailed my order of FF and Asterians as a result of the switch back to restic, and have chipped in my two cents on KS as well. Thing is, we all know that they'll do those factions in hard plastic eventually when they launch Warpath, so I'd rather wait for that.
I'm not up in arms about it as I don't need an excuse to spend more money at the moment; I never intended to buy any light vehicles, and the recently confirmed-to-be resin models inflated my budget some. But there isn't any question that Mantic is going to lose sales over this stop-gap measure. I wonder how many people would vote to cast the FF and Asterians in restic to get them sooner?
Yep. If I put anymore money into this it will be for terrain. I was going to go heavy on the ff plastics but have no reason not to wait for the warpath ks. Oh well.
scarletsquig wrote: Right, it is about time someone listed the contents of the survey *outside* of the survey, so everyone can plan properly.
Spoiler:
I'll edit this post with all things Survey 2, and then copy+paste into the OP and the mantic subforum thread to make it easier for everyone than navigating the form and trying not to accidentally submit it.
Deadzone Survey 2 Contents
Note: New stuff is picked out in red.
Page 1
Faction Starters - $35 each or 2 for $50 (Must have pledge of scout and up to qualify for the 2 for $50).
Faction Boosters - $20 each or any 4 for $60
Faction Booster Bundles - $50 each (BUY ONE GET ONE FREE)
Plague Zombies - $15 for 20, or $45 for 80 (stacks with previous survey, if you ordered 1 then, order another 3 to qualify for the deal)
4 Metal Dead Figures (1 Enforcer, 1 Plague, 1 Rebs, and 1 Marauders) - $15
Page 2
Resin Female Enforcer Pathfinder on Infiltrator Bike and on Foot - $20
2 Restic Corporation/Plague/Rebs Striders - $20
Resin Marauder Stuntbot - $20
Hybrid Restic/Resin Forge Father Iron Ancestor (Deadzone Version) - $20
Metal The Helfather - $8
Metal Chovar Psychic - $10
Metal Boomer, Hobgoblin Grenadier - $8
Restic The Survivor (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Metal Alternate Survivor - $8
Doctor Gayle Simmonds - $8
Recon Unit N32-19 - $8
Nastanza, Twilight Huntress - $8
Wrath - $8
Blaine (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Codename: Oberon (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Freya (Kickstarter Exclusive) - $8
Metal special character bundle (all 6 minis below) - $45
Enforcer Sergeant Howlett - $8
Kish, 3rd Generation Plague Sphyr - $8
Eddak P'mera, Yndij Hunter - $8
Chief Radgrad - Orc Warlord in Ripper Suit - $12
Nem-Rath, Asterian Shuutavar - $8
Bjarg Starnafall, Forge Father in Orbital Drop Armour - $8
Page 3
(fnarr fnarr) NEW! Warpath Enforcer with Thermal Rifle/Fusion Gun (1 Metal Figure) - $5
Thanks. I sure hope we get pictures of all the still unseen stuff before this closes.
As for plastic vice restic elves and dwarves, Mantic are shooting themselves in the foot on this one. They will lose sales of these because of the switch, had they stayed with plastic they would have gained sales. They eventually are going to do these in plastic anyway, so they are in effect wasting resources and losing sales, and yet in their closed and silly minds the decreased orders will justify the use of restic. Again, "almost".
As for plastic vice restic elves and dwarves, Mantic are shooting themselves in the foot on this one. They will lose sales of these because of the switch, had they stayed with plastic they would have gained sales. They eventually are going to do these in plastic anyway, so they are in effect wasting resources and losing sales, and yet in their closed and silly minds the decreased orders will justify the use of restic. Again, "almost".
I too would rather have plastic cylons and squats (were there also space elves?)
But since you know how their business runs and their financial forecasts, are privy to their business meetings and obviously have pillow talk with Ronnie in the afterglow, and aren't just someone who only posted this just to add another random barb against Mantic on the News thread, please do provide us with more of your hot and juicy insider information
RiTides wrote: @drag- Actually, what's unfair is for Mantic to continually, arbitrarily use the term "plastic". Call it a unicorn, call it whatever you like. But you need to distinguish between the various materials you sell models in. They use injection molded polystyrene (glueable with plastic cement), hand cast resin, and PVC. Call the three whatever you like, but for goodness sake be consistent. They've done a "bait and switch" with these terms a number of times now, and it has created a distrust with the company's statements.
@squig- It should be obvious by now to them that people vastly prefer quality product slightly late to poor product exactly on-time. If it isn't yet, please pass that along for, you know, all of us
"Plastic" is a catch all it applies to all of them, it existed before mantic and will more than likely be around long after them. The problem is certain people have added a context specific meaning to the word that is both non-universal and technically inaccurate, While is is common practice is just foolish to expect others to use the word the same way especially when they have to communicate with a far wider audience and the term is so ambiguous.
I'd rather have hard polystyrene asterians and FF even if there was a wait, even if that wait wassay 6 months. I can only imagine the gak storm that would commence if mantic announced a delay of that length.
@DQIS: You are technically correct here, but you really are just muddying the waters. "Plastic" in this industry is a term nearly universally applied to Polystyrene alone.
"Restic" is a term that never should have been used in the first place. "Restic" in fact has no resin in it, and is just PVC. I really wish they would have just used "PVC" from the get go.
Also, remember, and argument could be made for calling "Resin" by the name "Plastic" as well...
@Squig: Regarding the clear plastic bases: Yes! A million times YES! Lol. I had actually wanted to ask Ken @ Proxy what it would cost for him to make those, but if this pans out it will save me the time and money.
@Anyone else: Have Mantic ever said anything about making the faction decks available separate from the Starter Packs? If so, that will solve my ForgeFather and Asterian dilemma. If not, oh well.
RiTides wrote: @drag- Actually, what's unfair is for Mantic to continually, arbitrarily use the term "plastic". Call it a unicorn, call it whatever you like. But you need to distinguish between the various materials you sell models in. They use injection molded polystyrene (glueable with plastic cement), hand cast resin, and PVC. Call the three whatever you like, but for goodness sake be consistent. They've done a "bait and switch" with these terms a number of times now, and it has created a distrust with the company's statements.
@squig- It should be obvious by now to them that people vastly prefer quality product slightly late to poor product exactly on-time. If it isn't yet, please pass that along for, you know, all of us
"Plastic" is a catch all it applies to all of them, it existed before mantic and will more than likely be around long after them. The problem is certain people have added a context specific meaning to the word that is both non-universal and technically inaccurate, While is is common practice is just foolish to expect others to use the word the same way especially when they have to communicate with a far wider audience and the term is so ambiguous.
I'd rather have hard polystyrene asterians and FF even if there was a wait, even if that wait wassay 6 months. I can only imagine the gak storm that would commence if mantic announced a delay of that length.
@DQIS: You are technically correct here, but you really are just muddying the waters. "Plastic" in this industry is a term nearly universally applied to Polystyrene alone.
"Restic" is a term that never should have been used in the first place. "Restic" in fact has no resin in it, and is just PVC. I really wish they would have just used "PVC" from the get go.
Also, remember, and argument could be made for calling "Resin" by the name "Plastic" as well...
@Squig: Regarding the clear plastic bases: Yes! A million times YES! Lol. I had actually wanted to ask Ken @ Proxy what it would cost for him to make those, but if this pans out it will save me the time and money.
@Anyone else: Have Mantic ever said anything about making the faction decks available separate from the Starter Packs? If so, that will solve my ForgeFather and Asterian dilemma. If not, oh well.
~Eric
PVC is a synthetic resin,
I believe Restic is a trade-name for a particular formulation of PVC. I see no issue with "restic", plastic-resijn however was the really unhelpful term they bandied about at one point..
That hand poured two part resin small run minis are often made from......also a plastic.
I expect the sales advantage of polystyrene FF + asterians would be offset by the sales lost by not having them on the market earlier, not only that but the risk of them coming out crap and late would be one I wouldn't want to take.
I believe Restic is a trade-name for a particular formulation of PVC. I see no issue with "restic", plastic-resijn however was the really unhelpful term they bandied about at one point..
That hand poured two part resin small run minis are often made from......also a plastic.
I expect the sales advantage of polystyrene FF + asterians would be offset by the sales lost by not having them on the market earlier, not only that but the risk of them coming out crap and late would be one I wouldn't want to take.
So, you have absolutely no understanding of the issue that multiple people have pointed out to you, and no interest in anything other than being "right". Gotcha.
dragqueeninspace wrote: not only that but the risk of them coming out crap and late would be one I wouldn't want to take.
Which is really the largest risk for Mantic here because of their... *cough* track record. As has been mentioned here and by Kickstarter backers...you know, the people that funded this whole thing since Mantic didn't go through a bank, is that late and awesome is much better than now and sucky.
Your point on the types of plastic and how that affects Mantics decisions to not go "hard plastic" is off-set by the sheer cost of tooling involved between the two material types. This indicates to me that Mantic has no faith in their own product OR that they don't have long-term plans for the models being produced by this KS. If they had long-term plans for the models, they would go ahead and take it to hard plastic as it will save a great deal of money and effort later down the road on a Warpath KS.
That assumes that Ronnie and company have the ability to plan further than the next money-grab, I mean Kickstarter, into the future which they certainly have shown no penchant for thus far. They have shown a disturbing willingness to change material types as it suits them which is fitting considering there is no transparency with Kickstarters to see where the money's gone. If you keep changing things and making confusing declarations about materials and units, it makes it harder for people to pin you down later to anything you've said.
I'm not saying they're criminals but they do play fast and loose with the truth and have a sharply pronounced inability to remain consistent to any degree; this combined with an obvious distaste of communication with people who are paying their bills, does skirt close to that mark. We'll leave out the obvious bait and switch tactics and the fact that they somehow seem incapable actually getting items that people have paid for them out of the equation for the moment; because we all love Mantic and how they bumble about all random-like and haphazard, they're just the lovable buffoons of the tabletop hobby...
Does anyone have any of the Antenociti stuff? I wasn't expecting it to be available second time round, so now I'm tempted. Is it good value for money for skirmish game scatter terrain, or am I better off spending my money on Micro Art stuff or the like?
I'll take one last shot at this- we are all well aware that "plastic" is a generic term. This is exactly why companies need to be more specific if they are using it to apply to multiple different types of plastic, as Mantic is doing... unless they mean the "standard" injection molded polystyrene. They are extremely well aware of the differences, but they choose to be unclear on them until after raising funds
Ah well. I think everyone basically gets this, so I'll stop responding to what is a really obvious point now...
Really a bummer that the Forgefather exo-suits are being backed down to Restic, but I guess I can deal with it. I'm only getting a single set of the starter and the boosters, so a total of 6 restic figures (5 starter, 1 from booster) to make up a complete "unit" is not that big a deal to clean up, as long as they try to keep improving their casting qualities.
The Iron Ancestor is not a bad price, but is pretty much a newly minted rip-off compared to the Strider deals. A single Restic arm and a backpack piece is now deemed to be worth an entire strider model? That sucks. For my personal purposes I want these to be not-Squats for 40K. If I didn't want the Iron Ancestor imagery because it meshes to well with the other Forgefathers, I would definitely just use the strider for their "Dreadnought" because the deal is incredibly better for the same price giving you two figures (and assorted variant pieces!).
I definitely need to see the Jotunn Urban Demolisher before I would think about paying 15 dollars for a single figure, though, when even an Enforcer Captain is only $10.
Because Squats are supposed to use re-purposed mining vehicles, The above strider would be awesome using a Space Marine Dreadnought profile with Plasma Cannon and Close Combat weapon. Not sure I understand the random missiles on the shoulder, though. They wouldn't even be able to fire with the straps holding them down- it looks downright Orky.
I would assume that the Jotunn heavy demolisher is one of the tracked Jotunn cannons. Gonna go with that assumption and cross my fingers.
I still wonder if those missiles aren't akin to extra magazines strapped to his legs. I'm not sure what he has that would fire missiles though. Maybe it's an extra bit? Or the BFG the other variant has includes an underslung missile/rocket/grenade launcher that those would fit?
You've made me remember to go check out the army deals on the mantic site before they die off. Tomorrow I think. If the forge father 1 player battle set comes with a Jotunn and IA.. may consider it... though I have quite a few forge fathers atm as it is...
Another person more than willing to wait for hard plastic over restic here. Dont care if its 6 months later tbh.
Also quite liked this comment on the kickstarter
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the songs of angry men
It is the music of a people
who will not buy restic again
When the beating of your heart
echoes the beating of the drums
there is a life about to start
when hard plastic comes
I have no interest in the Forgefathers or Astarians but I'd still like them to be done in hard plastic rather than restic, just because restic is a much poorer quality material. I'm selling off most of my restic Deadzone stuff just because I can't be bothered to deal with it (just keeping the rebs). I'd rather wait 6 months and FWIW pay more (hell, I still buy GW) for hard plastic sprues.
GrimDork wrote: I would assume that the Jotunn heavy demolisher is one of the tracked Jotunn cannons. Gonna go with that assumption and cross my fingers.
I've been assuming it was one of those kits plus a new metal weapon, probably a large single barrel cannon that goes in instead of the standard quad gun
I've decided to hold back on the forge fathers and astarians due to them being restic, they were to be the start of new armies for Warpath but I'll hold back on them till their hard plastic.
I do think I may have a severe zombie addiction tho, ive slightly mentally pledged for far too many, well over a hundred coming now.
Mantic ought to run a vote just to see what everyone thinks.
I'm sure most would be overwhelmingly supportive of getting that stuff on hard sprues.
It does bug me that Mantic seems unable to run a poll to save their lives. Something like that would give them a far more accurate view of what people want in terms of type of plastic instead of going off of the loudest voices in the Kickstarter threads
Thing is for a poll to work and help create hard plastic it would need a unanimous yes, that is not going to happen and as a result there would be at least a few hundred people left wanting their FF/Asterians. Then, in spite of Mantic's previous stellar KS delivery date record, that would soon be forgotten and they would have more negative publicity to deal with.
I would prefer Hard plastic, but I think Mantic are set on restic for the two races for now. I assume for two reasons. Firstly they are already going down the restic route so that would be a lot of money and time wasted and secondly it would mean income arriving quicker.
That said I have no real issue with restic (@ Pretre my comment on the Mercs was somewhat tongue in cheek) as I have been through the full restic cycle. This saw the original KOW kits in the material (Revenant knights/ Wraiths etc) being great to deal with moved onto the much harder to deal with KOWKS formulation and back to the newer Deadzone formulation which is easier to deal with than the KOWKS era material.
I can see the arguments of both sides, the only way to suceed would be for Mantic to make it in both materials. Simply this is not going to happen as it would be a daft waste of money and resources.
I think they can work towards doing it in the future. The thing that surprises me is that they didn't go for the Plague in hard plastic. Making the main box all in hard plastic seems like a no-brainer.
I thought the Plague Terraton was supposed to be purchasable by itself? I don't see that in the survey option. I mean, I'm buying bundles, for sure: I went in fairly lightly the first time around, so time to splurge now as I'm very impressed with what I've seen, but I'm still curious how it's missing.
Maybe a learning curve from the delivery issues of the first wave so they have tried to cut down on single miniatures? It may also be because the minis are delivered in baggies of mixed models so they are trying to cut down on the hassle?
That said this is Mantic, email them with a request and they will probably sort it for you. I just think they are hoping that not many people do.
Checking that poll out now, thanks Squig! Normally I'd actually be in the camp of wanting my stuff faster, as I really haven't had any issues or mold lines that have bothered me in restic (again, except the nightmare that is the Sister set). However, as busy as I am with work, I still haven't even put together everything from shipment 1: so I can wait, and if I get improved product from waiting longer, hell, I'd be an idiot not to.
Nearly 30 votes and a 4:1 split in favour of hard plastic. As a non mantic forum member I will be joining just to put my two penneth in. I hope as many people as possible vote to get the sample size up. Has the link been put up on the Kickstarter page?
To hell with a poll, if Mantic haven't realised by now that their manure to plastic ratio is still not working they deserve to suffer the financial consequences.
Widdershinz wrote: Does anyone have any of the Antenociti stuff? I wasn't expecting it to be available second time round, so now I'm tempted. Is it good value for money for skirmish game scatter terrain, or am I better off spending my money on Micro Art stuff or the like?
At the KS prices its very good value for money - we're about to launch the retail packs of Deadzone scenery and they'll cost a fair bit more than the KS prices.
Joyboozer wrote: To hell with a poll, if Mantic haven't realised by now that their manure to plastic ratio is still not working they deserve to suffer the financial consequences.
So Mantic made mention early on that they were going to TRY to get the Asterians and FFs in hard plastic. They didn't promise that it WOULD happen, only that they would TRY. It comes down to the second survey and hard plastic wasn't an option with how long it took to get the zombies the way they want (which are awesome, by the way, as is the popular opinion on here). So with their deadlines, they tell us that what they hoped for just wasn't going to be possible, and offer a refund to anyone who put money in on that hope already (remember, people put forth money on something that wasn't PROMISED in any given material, so a refund is NOT a requirement as any company could easily tell customers they knew what they were getting themselves into). Mantic did not do this-they offered refunds in order to keep on their scheduled deadline with no false promises. Now, some enterprising young chap (or possibly old and crotchety, whatever) decided to post a poll on Mantic's site, trying to show them how many people are willing to wait in order for them to make their hopes into a promise, instead of the lesser choice happening on time.
TL;DR-next time you want to make a manure-post, think about the subject you're upset with. Mantic does have screw ups to answer for. This isn't one of them. Pick your battles better next time.
Joyboozer wrote: To hell with a poll, if Mantic haven't realised by now that their manure to plastic ratio is still not working they deserve to suffer the financial consequences.
So Mantic made mention early on that they were going to TRY to get the Asterians and FFs in hard plastic. They didn't promise that it WOULD happen, only that they would TRY. It comes down to the second survey and hard plastic wasn't an option with how long it took to get the zombies the way they want (which are awesome, by the way, as is the popular opinion on here). So with their deadlines, they tell us that what they hoped for just wasn't going to be possible, and offer a refund to anyone who put money in on that hope already (remember, people put forth money on something that wasn't PROMISED in any given material, so a refund is NOT a requirement as any company could easily tell customers they knew what they were getting themselves into). Mantic did not do this-they offered refunds in order to keep on their scheduled deadline with no false promises. Now, some enterprising young chap (or possibly old and crotchety, whatever) decided to post a poll on Mantic's site, trying to show them how many people are willing to wait in order for them to make their hopes into a promise, instead of the lesser choice happening on time.
TL;DR-next time you want to make a manure-post, think about the subject you're upset with. Mantic does have screw ups to answer for. This isn't one of them. Pick your battles better next time.
Hopefully they've learned from this little experience as well. Tell everyone Restic and then, later if they're able to go plastic they're suddenly the 2nd coming of Christ when they announce a bump up in material rather than creating a false hope in the minds of backers in the obvious attempt to drag in more money during the middle of a Kickstarter by mentiong "hard plastic!". They knew people would jump on it and buy it and anyone can tell you that most people will forget the "try" part in all the excitement. There's no reason at all to even mention it if you're not going to do it, unless you have a reason....
Joyboozer wrote: To hell with a poll, if Mantic haven't realised by now that their manure to plastic ratio is still not working they deserve to suffer the financial consequences.
So Mantic made mention early on that they were going to TRY to get the Asterians and FFs in hard plastic. They didn't promise that it WOULD happen, only that they would TRY. It comes down to the second survey and hard plastic wasn't an option with how long it took to get the zombies the way they want (which are awesome, by the way, as is the popular opinion on here). So with their deadlines, they tell us that what they hoped for just wasn't going to be possible, and offer a refund to anyone who put money in on that hope already (remember, people put forth money on something that wasn't PROMISED in any given material, so a refund is NOT a requirement as any company could easily tell customers they knew what they were getting themselves into). Mantic did not do this-they offered refunds in order to keep on their scheduled deadline with no false promises. Now, some enterprising young chap (or possibly old and crotchety, whatever) decided to post a poll on Mantic's site, trying to show them how many people are willing to wait in order for them to make their hopes into a promise, instead of the lesser choice happening on time.
TL;DR-next time you want to make a manure-post, think about the subject you're upset with. Mantic does have screw ups to answer for. This isn't one of them. Pick your battles better next time.
"Good news ladies and gentlemen – we’re going to be producing hard plastic sprues for the Enforcers, Asterian Cyphers and Forge Father Forge Guard!"
Of course, they have offered refunds for anyone who pledged just because of that, so I'm okay with the reversal.
I must have missed that update and must hang my head in shame. All I ever saw was "try" in the past, and most people on here mentioning they were going to try for it. Whelp, I guess they should have picked their wording better: "Good news, guys! Chances are looking even better that these'll be in plastic. This is not yet set in stone, but as long as the zombies come back looking good, these'll happen in plastic." Problem solved.
Apologies, Joyboozer. Guess you can't believe everything you read on the 'Net!
"Good news ladies and gentlemen – we’re going to be producing hard plastic sprues for the Enforcers, Asterian Cyphers and Forge Father Forge Guard!"
Of course, they have offered refunds for anyone who pledged just because of that, so I'm okay with the reversal.
Crap. I just remembered that you wanted my fleabag riders and I've just sent them off to someone else today. Sorry, Pretre, I hope you weren't looking for more of them.
I didn't want fleabags. You sure you got the right guy? I ditched my whole KoW pledge. (Not because of quality, but because I had bought it for D&D minis and Reaper filled that in better.)
pretre wrote: I didn't want fleabags. You sure you got the right guy? I ditched my whole KoW pledge. (Not because of quality, but because I had bought it for D&D minis and Reaper filled that in better.)
Hmm.. Guess it wasn't you after all. Well, good I don't need to feel badly then.
timetowaste85 wrote: I thought the Plague Terraton was supposed to be purchasable by itself? I don't see that in the survey option. I mean, I'm buying bundles, for sure: I went in fairly lightly the first time around, so time to splurge now as I'm very impressed with what I've seen, but I'm still curious how it's missing.
I didn't see the Plague Teraton, The Plague Big Guy (1st Gen? 1A? Kraka-doom?), the plastic standard enforcers, or a couple of other things I would have bought. Oh well. Guess I'll just get them during a holiday sale next year, if I still feel like buying them by then.
I'm not too upset by the news that the Asterians and FOrge Fathers won't be in hard plastic - I'll just save money now, and wait for them to show up in the Inevitable Warpath KS later this year.
Maybe there's a bit of a concept change too, for example, deciding that in warpath terms, the Cyphers would be somewhat less common than normal infantry, so it isn't a good idea to invest in both poly cement plastic for both.
Ditto for the Forge Guard, when they have normal infantry.
Forge guard are currently like 200 points for 5 with what I'm assuming is a standard game size of 2k and you can only take them in 5 strong units. Probably the most elite warpath unit ATM so restic tracks. Maybe the cyphers will be the same.
carlos13th wrote: Another person more than willing to wait for hard plastic over restic here. Dont care if its 6 months later tbh.
Also quite liked this comment on the kickstarter
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the songs of angry men
It is the music of a people
who will not buy restic again
When the beating of your heart
echoes the beating of the drums
there is a life about to start
when hard plastic comes
I'm guilty of that one. Comparing the restic revolt to the French revolution was so deliciously absurd that I couldn't resist.
MkultraStudios wrote: Besides the fantastic pics posted in KS by Mantic, here's a little video I made about our work with the Asterians... I hope you'll enjoy it...
I was entirely too critical of your work the first time it was posted; I'm warming up to it. Also love your Questron logo and seeing the two old Archon characters making an appearance.
MkultraStudios wrote: Besides the fantastic pics posted in KS by Mantic, here's a little video I made about our work with the Asterians... I hope you'll enjoy it...
I was entirely too critical of your work the first time it was posted; I'm warming up to it. Also love your Questron logo and seeing the two old Archon characters making an appearance.
Thanks for your praises , but, what were your critics for? I think that there's only three samples of our work in this forum... and I didn't see any comments from you (or any other negative comments) about it
Good eye with the Troll and the Knight from Archon!
MkultraStudios wrote: Thanks for your praises , but, what were your critics for? I think that there's only three samples of our work in this forum... and I didn't see any comments from you (or any other negative comments) about it
Hi MkultraStudios,
It's not worth searching for my first response. I have an unfortunate tendency to descend into stupid snark, and I rescind my earlier comments. I have one remaining constructive criticism - all my other critique has since been rethought and has mutated into praise.
Critique:
1. The Prime Asterian with the sword should guard himself with his shield as he readies his sword to strike; as it is, he's carelessly leaving himself open to attack. Solving this issue is just a matter of changing the pose. I do hope you'll consider this one, as that figure has a lot of potential.
Praise:
2. I had a critique about the integrated scenery with the flying Asterian, but I've completely rethought it. I really like the figure's composition with the rubble so much that I'd actually be happy if it stayed just as it is. Very nice work - I can tell you really spent time on that one.
3. Had a critique about figures aiming their guns, and rethought that too. You accomplished that handily - it's evident that most of the units are clearly aiming at specific targets. Good job.
4. The Gravbike is excellent!
5. Love the dynamism of the running Asterian. It gives the faction a shot of energy and is a nice contrast with the other figures. In fact, you might consider giving one or two of the other units more dynamic, action-oriented poses. The Asterians already look alike, so a few more varied poses helps enhance the group's visual interest. The majority should stay as they are, in my opinion.
Overall I like what you've done and look forward to seeing what you do with the remaining drone units. I worry a little bit about Mantic's intention to cast the figures you rendered in resin plastic, as the figures are on the thin side (as per the concept drawings you were given), which doesn't always turn out well when cast in that material. That production concern has nothing to do with you, and is not a criticism of your work.
I can't really explain my previous grouchiness - I don't drink or use drugs, so it must be old age creeping in.
Speaking of old age, I have many good memories of playing Archon on the C64 back in the day. Is the troll doing what I think it's doing?
MkultraStudios wrote: Besides the fantastic pics posted in KS by Mantic, here's a little video I made about our work with the Asterians... I hope you'll enjoy it...
Welcome to the forums, your digital sculpting is amazing, especially the work on Mars Attacks, it is brilliant.
carlos13th wrote: Another person more than willing to wait for hard plastic over restic here. Dont care if its 6 months later tbh.
Also quite liked this comment on the kickstarter
Do you hear the people sing?
Singing the songs of angry men
It is the music of a people
who will not buy restic again
When the beating of your heart
echoes the beating of the drums
there is a life about to start
when hard plastic comes
I'm guilty of that one. Comparing the restic revolt to the French revolution was so deliciously absurd that I couldn't resist.
MkultraStudios wrote: Besides the fantastic pics posted in KS by Mantic, here's a little video I made about our work with the Asterians... I hope you'll enjoy it...
I was entirely too critical of your work the first time it was posted; I'm warming up to it. Also love your Questron logo and seeing the two old Archon characters making an appearance.
Thanks for your praises , but, what were your critics for? I think that there's only three samples of our work in this forum... and I didn't see any comments from you (or any other negative comments) about it
Good eye with the Troll and the Knight from Archon!
I personanlly said I don't have the same enthusiasm for them as I did for the original sketches. I pointed out there was nothing I could pin point as a reason for that and it may very well just be my disappointment with the quality of the models received so far rubbing off on my opinion of them. Others notes that if their are changes possibly they were likley nessecary in order to ensure they can actually be sculpted.
They still look nice but I don't have the same excitement for them I once did, espeically in light of mantic reversing their position on hard plastic.
The more I see of the Asterians, the more I like them. Picking a colour scheme might be interesting - don't see them suiting an elder scheme. Something to think about.
Literally the only complaint I have about the Forgefathers being restic (and this in one of the first times in 20 years I am saying this) is that the rendered image of them had wayyyyy to much detail packed onto the figure, in my opinion. Maybe after painting will be a difference, or having them in hand versus the render, but they are almost to baroque for my tastes.
As for waiting even longer for hard plastic versus restic, I'm sorry, but no. At this point I will have already waited until this summer to even have them in-hand, now I would have to wait even longer? I may be the oddball, but I only want a single squad of these guys, not ten. Needing to clean 6 restic figures for an elite unit that you won't have many of is not that bad.
I want to play with them this summer, not next Christmas.
AegisGrimm wrote: Literally the only complaint I have about the Forgefathers being restic (and this in one of the first times in 20 years I am saying this) is that the rendered image of them had wayyyyy to much detail packed onto the figure, in my opinion. Maybe after painting will be a difference, or having them in hand versus the render, but they are almost to baroque for my tastes.
As for waiting even longer for hard plastic versus restic, I'm sorry, but no. At this point I will have already waited until this summer to even have them in-hand, now I would have to wait even longer? I may be the oddball, but I only want a single squad of these guys, not ten. Needing to clean 6 restic figures for an elite unit that you won't have many of is not that bad.
I want to play with them this summer, not next Christmas.
It's a fair point. There's a stronger case for the Asterian Cyphers in hard plastic than the Forge Guard, mainly because the Forge Guard are elites, whereas the Cyphers are the core troops of the Asterians.
While Peacekeepers did get a sprue, it's pretty clear there's going to be an effort to sell them as not-terminators for 40k just by looking at the parts on the sprue.
While I'm not KS-backer, only retail, I would say that I don't mind not having the FF and Asterians in HP. Having built and painted well over 100 restic models, I've never really had a problem with the material. They take paint fine, clean up pretty easily on the whole, and the finished result is not really that different from HP models. I can see why people are annoyed with the change of policy on them, but had they said that they would be restic in the first place, I doubt as many people would be complaining. Remember all of the first-wave sculpts were in restic and were generally well-received, so I think a lot of the backlash is more about the reversal of the decision rather than the material itself. In fairness, Mantic have I believe offered refunds for those not happy, what more can they do?
The renders themselves still look awesome, and I can't wait for these to hit retail.
Saxon wrote: The more I see of the Asterians, the more I like them. Picking a colour scheme might be interesting - don't see them suiting an elder scheme. Something to think about.
I'm thinking they are just crying out for something metallic, maybe even chrome. Other than that, some kind of muted ceramic grey might work.
These guys look pretty close, I think the scheme would work with some modification:
I'm kind of torn right now. I want the Iron ancestor and the Jotunn. I don't necessarily care if they're the urban versions or not. The 1 player battle set in it's current sale-enhanced (until midnight today, which is probably 6 hours before midnight for me ) form includes both the IA and Jotunn cannon. It also has 10 more steel warriors and a whopping 20 stormrage veterans. I'm not sure what you even do with 20 stormrage veterans (especially when you've already got 15!!), but basically I'm looking at spending $35 to get the two vehicles from the KS and waiting some time (not really an issue) or spending $15 more dollars to get 20 more dwarfs. But do I need those dwarfs? Maybe the third option is best, wait for the kickstarter?
They should be painted like the old Z-Bot robots: there was one with a shadow grey/orange scheme, one with a dark red and one with a grey and red design. Hmm, that's how mine will be.
Paint em Orange, like Cogs from AT-43. Those are also models who it looks like the Cyphers heavily drew from (Other than Cogs are deceptively huge, those are 40mm bases!).
I'm seriously thinking of doing it to any Forgefathers I get, just to be different.
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While Peacekeepers did get a sprue, it's pretty clear there's going to be an effort to sell them as not-terminators for 40k just by looking at the parts on the sprue.
I echo this. It's pretty obvious that Peacekeepers were designed to get people to buy 100 of, but that's not the same with Forgefathers. I mean, they are also obviously direct- tactical Terminator analogs, but without all the options that Peacekeepers get. There's a reason that Forfathers don't get any kind of weapons options, but Peacekeepers get an absolute ton (that are analogs to every single Terminator option) for the same price.
The attention lavished on the Peacekeepers was an obvious cry to get people to make the gut reaction to throw their money at them. Forgefather exo-suits are simply part of a faction, no more than Ripper Suits are to Marauders, and frankly so far have gotten less attention than even those.
I genuinely like the Forge Fathers now, but ever since I realized the Iron Ancestor was bearded and smiling I've lost all interest in getting one.
I wanted to keep my second Deadzone survey investment low, but with the high quality resin mechs, bargain priced restic Striders, and my born-again joy-joy-joy in the Asterians that's clearly not happening. I was never going to buy multiple duplicates of anything for Warpath, and while I would prefer to wait for hard plastic (I have plenty of Deadzone figures and terrain to work on as it is), if Mantic issues the Forge Fathers and Asterians sooner in restic I'm fine with that too.
For me Deadzone has been an outstanding deal from an outstanding company; a company that is understaffed in certain areas and needs to grow their workforce in proportion to their success, but a company whose current staff politely, enthusiastically, and determinedly work their butts off for us. I don't discount anyone's legitimate concerns or problems; they should speak up and have them addressed. And it's pretty clear from studying the internet history of Mantic's previous KS campaigns that Mantic has flopped a few times, not on entire projects, but on fulfilling aspects of them. It's always good to be an informed customer, and thanks mostly to the education I've received on these forums from you guys, I entered the Deadzone KS with my eyes wide open. But it also seemed clear that Mantic was on an upward curve, and that Deadzone would mark a turning point for the better. I respect that we all have different opinions on how well Deadzone has done so far, but for me it is has fulfilled expectations to a ridiculous degree. The few areas where the product has come up short (building connector issues, I find a small percentage of the figures unusable) haven't been anything I couldn't work around.
I get a little melancholy thinking about how Mantic will be in 20 years, when Ronnie sells the company and retires to Bermuda, the Warpath / Kings of War universes become repetitive and stagnant, and Hewitt Games is eating them alive. But right now I'm excited about them and for them, and I haven't felt that way about a company since the only way for a kid in Missouri to get a snotling pumpwagon was to have Dad make an international call to GW headquarters in England.
(I still crack up when I remember him saying "I'd like one Snotling pumpwagon" into the phone.)
I also agree the peacekeepers have been built and designed to replace terminators. I'm okay with this though. The renders have been far superior to GW's terminators. Renders, mind you, as that's all we've seen. If the hard plastics are as good as the renders, I'll be ordering a lot more than 10. Maybe 30 or 40.
MkultraStudios wrote: Thanks for your praises , but, what were your critics for? I think that there's only three samples of our work in this forum... and I didn't see any comments from you (or any other negative comments) about it
Hi MkultraStudios,
It's not worth searching for my first response. I have an unfortunate tendency to descend into stupid snark, and I rescind my earlier comments. I have one remaining constructive criticism - all my other critique has since been rethought and has mutated into praise.
Critique:
1. The Prime Asterian with the sword should guard himself with his shield as he readies his sword to strike; as it is, he's carelessly leaving himself open to attack. Solving this issue is just a matter of changing the pose. I do hope you'll consider this one, as that figure has a lot of potential.
Hehehe... well, my studio is a freelancing studio... Mantic send us the concept, and sometimes we can't get a bit out of there I think that the critics about fence would go to them hehehehe...
2. I had a critique about the integrated scenery with the flying Asterian, but I've completely rethought it. I really like the figure's composition with the rubble so much that I'd actually be happy if it stayed just as it is. Very nice work - I can tell you really spent time on that one.
Thanks! Well, in the other part, that was an idea of mine... We didn't (and neither Mantic) know how to solve the issue of having a big figure landing in a micro-inch... so I decided to add some ruins to make some support and Mantic liked the idea... In fact, originally, the ruins were bigger
3. Had a critique about figures aiming their guns, and rethought that too. You accomplished that handily - it's evident that most of the units are clearly aiming at specific targets. Good job.
That was a work of us and Mantic... Our sculpter decided to give a really robotic poses to some of the miniatures, that mantic didn't see it to work (for example, feet facing north, while torso, head and weapon aiming east, and things like that)... this was a coop work between mantic and us...
5. Love the dynamism of the running Asterian. It gives the faction a shot of energy and is a nice contrast with the other figures. In fact, you might consider giving one or two of the other units more dynamic, action-oriented poses. The Asterians already look alike, so a few more varied poses helps enhance the group's visual interest. The majority should stay as they are, in my opinion.
Thanks... but Again, that's in hands of Mantic, not us
Overall I like what you've done and look forward to seeing what you do with the remaining drone units. I worry a little bit about Mantic's intention to cast the figures you rendered in resin plastic, as the figures are on the thin side (as per the concept drawings you were given), which doesn't always turn out well when cast in that material. That production concern has nothing to do with you, and is not a criticism of your work.
Well, first, we've done with Dead Zone for now (We've done the last plague zombies released and the Asterians) ... we are in another games now, so no drones are out from our hands About the "thin" side... Mantic specifically ask us to increase the thickness of the Asterians' wings precisely to avoid problems...
Speaking of old age, I have many good memories of playing Archon on the C64 back in the day. Is the troll doing what I think it's doing?
You are not the first one that ask me that question.... NO, he's not taking a gold-gak hahahahaha... It's simple an ingot from Pitfall II that suddenly appeared in the scene... each adventure need to have a hero, a monster and a treasure
MkultraStudios wrote: Besides the fantastic pics posted in KS by Mantic, here's a little video I made about our work with the Asterians... I hope you'll enjoy it...
Welcome to the forums, your digital sculpting is amazing, especially the work on Mars Attacks, it is brilliant.
Thanks!!!
I've posted another video from Mars Attack in another thread (I think it was the Heroquest one or something...) Now I'm working in the second part of that video
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carlos13th wrote: I think I will paint them largely ceramic white kind of colour, or metallic.
Ceramic would be my choice too...
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timetowaste85 wrote: I also agree the peacekeepers have been built and designed to replace terminators. I'm okay with this though. The renders have been far superior to GW's terminators. Renders, mind you, as that's all we've seen. If the hard plastics are as good as the renders, I'll be ordering a lot more than 10. Maybe 30 or 40.
Oh! Thanks! I forgot to mention that the last Peace Keepers also are our work
Looks like Mantic pulled the Kindle and Epub versions of the dreadball stuff from Mantic Digital - i guess because like i reported earlier, they were kinda broken and the links didn't work. Instead they've got PDF versions - a low-res version and a high-res version. I'm downloading them right now to check them out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alright, looks like the PDFs arent that great. They're just the PDF versions of the rulebooks with a table of contents, but no interactive links or rule tooltips or anything. So at this stage, the web versions are gonna be the ones you'll want to stick with.
If these can somehow be released with an 'offline' version or web app version, that would be pretty cool.
Don't know if this has been mentioned yet, here the latest bit of news regarding delays and mispacks from the Mantic blog
In short, we’re a bit busier than normal.
However, there’s light at the end of the tunnel. Sarah and Chris are ploughing through the large piles of emails in the customer service inbox at a very impressive rate, and the warehouse team are working flat-out to sort out those few mispacked deliveries, send out big piles of web orders and dispatch huge boxes of lovely stock to retailers and distributors. However, there’s still a bit of a delay, so please bear with us. We really appreciate your patience!
Here’s a quick FAQ that might answer a few questions and save you waiting for an answer:
Q) I’ve received a delivery but it’s missing some pieces! What do I do?
A) Please follow this link to complete an Order Query Form so we know all the details. Our warehouse will be sorting through these forms on a regular basis and will sort out your missing parts as soon as possible.
Q) I’m waiting on an order I made through www.manticgames.com. When can I expect it?
A) You can check the status of your order by going to “My Orders” in the “My Account” section of the website. (You will need to be logged in to see this.) Due to the large volume of orders being made through our website, there is currently a delay of 5-10 working days between orders being received and being dispatched. If it has been longer than this and your order is not yet marked as “dispatched”, please contact us using the form on our Contact Page.
Q) I sent you an email / filled in an Order Query form / messaged you on Facebook / sent a message by flying monkey / etc. but I haven’t had a response. What gives?
A) As we said above, wow, we’re really busy at the moment. We’re getting through our messages as quickly as we can, though! Although there are many ways of contacting Mantic, the only way to guarantee a response is to contact us using the Contact Us form. This will go straight to our customer services team, who will respond to all messages in the order they are received (unless some investigation is required, in which case they will be sent as soon as we’ve found the answer). If you have already filled in the form, we will respond to you – please don’t send us another message to chase up a response, as it won’t be answered until after we’ve already answered the first one!
Again, we really, really appreciate your patience in this busy period.
I love how "those few mispacked deliveries" are generating "large piles of emails in the customer service inbox " which are causing a backlog two folks can't keep up with.
CptJake wrote: I love how "those few mispacked deliveries" are generating "large piles of emails in the customer service inbox " which are causing a backlog two folks can't keep up with.
Shhhh. Quiet you, we're not going to have any of your reality crashing down in here.
CptJake wrote: I love how "those few mispacked deliveries" are generating "large piles of emails in the customer service inbox " which are causing a backlog two folks can't keep up with.
What wasn't included was the part where they claim the backlog is due to them being to awesome with their deals.
Not a chance! If anything, we've been busier than ever this month. Admittedly, it's probably our own fault for putting up such awesome sale deals in the Mantic Store (so popular that you guys crashed the website when they first went up) then shutting up shop for a couple of weeks over the festive period. It's resulted in a stack of pending orders in the warehouse so big it's like dispatching Deadzone all over again!
I actually made two separate orders because their awesome deals were pretty awesome. Got one and waiting on the other (couldn't resist the Forge Father one player starter with the bonus $40+ worth of figures)
@Judgedoug, I *almost* got the FF one player battle set. I wasn't sure what I could possibly do with 35 stormrage vets and am kind of short on the cash atm, or I might have.
Speaking of those Stormrage vets... really nice for restic. The older style lighter restic, which I'm wondering now if that isn't different still from what they made the DB stuff out of. I really like it, at least that I've seen on my corporation marines and these dwarfs. Cleaned up really quick, hard plastic quick imo, only rough bit is cutting off those damn integrated bases, using hot water to soften the material helps a lot though, just gotta watch bending the feet out of line when you do that. The pegs are good, and everything is lining up such that I shouldn't need the HWT to reshape any basic poses.
Speaking of the hot water trick... how do you guys keep a reliable supply of hot water? I've got a little glass storage bowl about the size of my painting water cup, keep it on a Mr Coffee coffee warmer while working on restic.
GrimDork wrote: @Judgedoug, I *almost* got the FF one player battle set. I wasn't sure what I could possibly do with 35 stormrage vets and am kind of short on the cash atm, or I might have.
Speaking of those Stormrage vets... really nice for restic. The older style lighter restic, which I'm wondering now if that isn't different still from what they made the DB stuff out of.
I'm a bit befuddled about restic. The corp and veer-myn I bought have almost zero mold lines and crisp detail. My earlier restic purchases were all fine, too, such as the Gore Riders. Here's hoping the FF stuff is just as good.
Speaking of the hot water trick... how do you guys keep a reliable supply of hot water? I've got a little glass storage bowl about the size of my painting water cup, keep it on a Mr Coffee coffee warmer while working on restic.
I actually use a hairdryer and a cup of cold water. Just hit the model with the hot air until pliable, and it's less messy and easier to keep "ready" than a cup of hot water
Speaking of the hot water trick... how do you guys keep a reliable supply of hot water? I've got a little glass storage bowl about the size of my painting water cup, keep it on a Mr Coffee coffee warmer while working on restic.
I actually use a hairdryer and a cup of cold water. Just hit the model with the hot air until pliable, and it's less messy and easier to keep "ready" than a cup of hot water
I like the Stormrage vets. I think the Gorilla arms aren't so bad except on the one holding a pistol and hammer / pointing hand, where it's distracting.
I really wanted to swap my Christmas box Vets into the Deadzone Forge Father team, but after wrangling with sanity (when will I ever paint all this stuff?), my financial conscience, and reversing course on the Asterians, something had to go, so I won't be picking the FF up on the survey after all. I'm not entirely happy about that, but I'm finding it hard to justify buying the starter at full MSRP by itself, and I just don't need an additional starter from any other faction for the 2 for $50 deal.
Interesting that they priced the starters so poorly as individual purchases; the $20 boosters are a better deal than their retail counterparts even before you start with the 4-for-3 and BOGOFing.
Ah well, something to pick up later at a discounted retail price. Unless, of course, Mantic releases a Helfathers team, in which case the goody-goody Dwarfs can kiss Abyssal boot.
GrimDork wrote: @Judgedoug, I *almost* got the FF one player battle set. I wasn't sure what I could possibly do with 35 stormrage vets and am kind of short on the cash atm, or I might have.
Speaking of those Stormrage vets... really nice for restic. The older style lighter restic, which I'm wondering now if that isn't different still from what they made the DB stuff out of.
I'm a bit befuddled about restic. The corp and veer-myn I bought have almost zero mold lines and crisp detail. My earlier restic purchases were all fine, too, such as the Gore Riders. Here's hoping the FF stuff is just as good.
I honestly think it has to do with the KS. I think they pushed the factory to produce too much too fast and the quality suffered for the KS deliveries. It sure was not consistent, some folks got a particular figure with no issues, others got the same one looking really bad, some got a mix.
Meh the house isn't too small and we're at opposite ends. I *could* use the hairdryer but damn if I'm gonna jeopardize my precious hour a day of peace!
Truth be told though... probably will use the heat gun stuck on stun for models that already have glue on them..
I used a lighter. I don't smoke but keep long lighters around for candles and the BBQ grill.. Worked quickly and noiselessly but you have to be careful not to melt the restic.
GrimDork wrote: I've used a hairdryer on hard plastic, given how quiet is golden when you have a sleeping toddler.. I will stick to my coffee warmer
Coffee warmer it is, then. Much obliged for the tip.
You can also microwave a bowl/mug of water for 20-30 seconds.
Not a constant source but it lets you focus on a couple of models (that you can fix then run under the cold tap).
Alpharius wrote: You must have a small house, a loud hair dryer (with 1 setting?) or a light sleeper for a baby!
Or - all three?
Your baby must sleep like a rock. For my toddler, hairdryers fit in the set of all things that make scary noises. He would be able to hear it from upstairs behind a closed door.
Mine isn't afraid of hairdryers or the like, but god help me if she's woken up before she wants to be =/
I tell you though, the sooner mantic get rid of these infernal integrated bases... Went through all of those skeletons (didn't need to remove them) and 13 sedition wars minis, no cuts, within the first 5 restic dwarves I manage to gouge my thumb. No blood, but it's a hair away and it's irritating as heck. Hacking those bases off and carving the feet back into non moon-shoes is such a pain.
GrimDork wrote: Mine isn't afraid of hairdryers or the like, but god help me if she's woken up before she wants to be =/
I tell you though, the sooner mantic get rid of these infernal integrated bases... Went through all of those skeletons (didn't need to remove them) and 13 sedition wars minis, no cuts, within the first 5 restic dwarves I manage to gouge my thumb. No blood, but it's a hair away and it's irritating as heck. Hacking those bases off and carving the feet back into non moon-shoes is such a pain.
What are you cutting with? I use Xacto sawblades in the same shape as the standard #11, and apart from all the restic dust it's been no problem.
Hmm I should try that. Whenever I use my hobby saw I end up taking too much off of one of the feet or something, so I just clip the bulk of the base away until it's essentially big chunky platform shoes, then I slice those off. Usually, my thumb is imperiled during the last step when I'm trying to even out the feet and have trouble getting a good smooth cut at the right angle if I'm bracing against the desk, so those cuts I make towards my thumb. Next time I'm in a hobby shop of some kind though, I'll have to look into those.
I am fine with the integrals for fantasy, hate them for sci fi.
Also who the hell thought it would be a good idea for certain models to keep the integrals but give them platform shoes for the poses that don't fit on an integral base properly. That has do be the worse solution possible for that issue.
We've seen some great Deadzone photos online from people who either backed the game through Kickstarter or picked it up during the November pre-release period, but now it's time to start seeing what you guys can *really* do.
We want to see your photos of painted miniatures - and the best ones might even feature in an upcoming publication! We're starting off with the Enforcers, and we'll look at the Plague tomorrow.
Comment on this post with your a photo of your best Enforcer miniature or miniatures, and we'll pick our favourites at the end of the week!
Don't know if it's been mentioned but quick tip for people removing the integrated bases. Use the hot water technique. After a dip in hot water the restic becomes very soft and is super easy to cut, will save you alot of time and wounds
I can confirm, even though I did nick myself in spite of this technique, it makes cutting the restic at least twice as easy. Doesn't last very long though, so I usually get a few models to that point and round-robin them until they're all done. Seems like I only get the "like butter" ease of use for the first cut or so. And watch bending their feet!
You might have noticed the image above popping up in a few places around the web. It's turned up in a blog post, a status update, a tweet, and various other places to boot. It's pretty cryptic, and it's had a lot of people wondering! There's even a thread on the Mantic Forums where people are gathering to discuss theories.
Well, it's time to come clean!
We're Kickstarting a rather awesome project at the end of this month (February 2014, i.e. 02/14, or "0214" in the image above, see?) and this image is the first step in a series of clues that we're releasing online. A lot of you will already know what the project is, but I won't spoil the fun for you! However, even if you do know what's coming, there's something very cool waiting at the end of the trail. Trust me, this is a puzzle you want to solve.
A series of clues with something awesome at the end. It's basically a treasure hunt!
Best of luck finding what you're looking for - why not report your results in the comments below?
James M. Hewitt | February 4, 2014 at 1:00 pm | URL: http://wp.me/p3UoRi-2BS Comment See all comments
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It's Dreadball Extreme launching 21st February not exactly a secret the image is a stylised version of the cross pattern on a Dreadball ball which hapens to look like an X.
I think its like unofficial/fight club style dead ball. Like Jean Claude van damne underground pit fight style db. With convict team and so on. At least that's part of it.
Jake covered it on his blog it may have evolved a bit (this is over a year old) but the basics are there and recent news hasn't changed much they are looking to add some sort of scatter terrain features as well as the games are played in Warehouses, Cargo bays etc.
You pick a team sponsor that allows access to various different players and you have a number of credits to spend to build your team.
Scoring zones are the same but there are lots of obstacles on the pitch.
Base game Convicts and Asterians - new Asterian team more brutal than the current one.
6-8 new MVPs
KS will fund new teams that can be used in regular Dreadball as well.
Possibly 3 new Seasons 4,5,6 - 4 new teams each (12 total) - depends on funding.
Aiming for 24 teams in total over 6 seasons (not including MA team)
Dreadball Extreme pitch will be like the Ultimate pitch (mouse pad type) also possible that the original pitch will be done like this as a stretch goal.
I may go in for a token pledge to give support and so I can troll the comments . Maybe if there's something cool I'll nab it on the survey. Same with the next KoWks.
Id be interested in the base game but ive got far too much restic to wade through from deadzone before I go big on another mantic ks. Although I'll prob go big on the abyssal ks later in the year
I might get more than a token pledge if those two armies are cool enough, or if any kind of undead become available. It'll be running while I'm in season so there will be funds to throw at it if ii am impressed.
GrimDork wrote: I may go in for a token pledge to give support and so I can troll the comments . Maybe if there's something cool I'll nab it on the survey. Same with the next KoWks.
GrimDork wrote: I may go in for a token pledge to give support and so I can troll the comments . Maybe if there's something cool I'll nab it on the survey. Same with the next KoWks.
That's a dollar more than they deserve. Until Mantic proves that they are willing and able to fulfill their end of the bargain, you should not give them another cent of Kickstarter money.
I'll probably pledge a dollar and see where it goes, but I doubt I'll be spending much if anything on this one. I'm not really sure what they could offer me at this point that I'd be more excited about than what I've already received for Deadzone, and what I'll be getting from the second Deadzone survey and Mars Attacks.
Well, a Nameless, Z'zor, or Veer-myn Deadzone faction would get me on board pretty quick, but I'm obviously not going to get any of those from a Dreadball campaign.
GrimDork wrote: I may go in for a token pledge to give support and so I can troll the comments . Maybe if there's something cool I'll nab it on the survey. Same with the next KoWks.
That's a dollar more than they deserve. Until Mantic proves that they are willing and able to fulfill their end of the bargain, you should not give them another cent of Kickstarter money.
They've proven it to me, which is enough for my money
Though it's extremely unlikely I'll be backing DBX, for reasons of time and available funds.
The map gives it away.
1. Start company.
2. Release miniatures.
3.??????
4. Profit.
Unfortunately step 3 was on the torn out piece of map, and the missing piece said "quality".
The only thing I can see the map giving away is that it has to do with quarter four down in the bottom right, suggesting it may well be a teaser/clue for something yet to happen that also isn't DBX, since that's happening soon and Q4 is a ways off yet.
Maybe a pirate skirmish game? Meh, probably save me money if it is and takes the place of something else they may put up on KS.
GrimDork wrote: The only thing I can see the map giving away is that it has to do with quarter four down in the bottom right, suggesting it may well be a teaser/clue for something yet to happen that also isn't DBX, since that's happening soon and Q4 is a ways off yet.
Maybe a pirate skirmish game? Meh, probably save me money if it is and takes the place of something else they may put up on KS.
Maybe it will be Bloodfleet like everyone was predicting when Dreadball was announced.
GrimDork wrote: The only thing I can see the map giving away is that it has to do with quarter four down in the bottom right, suggesting it may well be a teaser/clue for something yet to happen that also isn't DBX, since that's happening soon and Q4 is a ways off yet.
Maybe a pirate skirmish game? Meh, probably save me money if it is and takes the place of something else they may put up on KS.
Maybe it will be Bloodfleet like everyone was predicting when Dreadball was announced.
GrimDork wrote: The only thing I can see the map giving away is that it has to do with quarter four down in the bottom right, suggesting it may well be a teaser/clue for something yet to happen that also isn't DBX, since that's happening soon and Q4 is a ways off yet.
Maybe a pirate skirmish game? Meh, probably save me money if it is and takes the place of something else they may put up on KS.
Maybe it will be Bloodfleet like everyone was predicting when Dreadball was announced.
They've been saying for months now that they'll only pull the trigger on Warpath if they see that people are happy with the quality of the plastic sprues.
They've been saying for months now that they'll only pull the trigger on Warpath if they see that people are happy with the quality of the plastic sprues.
@Scarletsquig - Well, the last time we disagreed, my defeat resulted in having my Goblin Stuntbot cast in resin. So my wisest course of action is to pronounce you wrong, and then get my comeuppance in the form of a Warpath KS debuting in the fourth quarter later this year.
So you're wrong, Scarlet Squig, so very, very, absolutely wrong, wrong beyond all possible dimensions of wrongitude.
Joyboozer wrote: The map gives it away.
1. Start company.
2. Release miniatures.
3.??????
4. Profit.
Unfortunately step 3 was on the torn out piece of map, and the missing piece said "quality".
I admit it - I LOL'd at that one!
Also, a Dreadball KS will be EASY for me to resist, and it will give me a chance to sit on the sidelines and see how Mantic does on yet another Kickstarter, because by now they have GOT to have this whole Crowd Funding thing figured out.
Sorry to hash over some old ground here, but I've been away from posting for a bit so...
-DeadZone I'd be more bothered by the news of the FF and Asterians not making it into hard plastic if I'd been aiming to get lots of them. Thinking on it further though, space dwarves are an "eh" concept for me and the Cyphers, while neat, aren't enough to make me want a full force like the Enforcers. it just means I probably won't be getting boosters for the two starters I'm getting. I'll wait to see if pictures appear to change my mind, but that seems doubtful at this point.
I like the look of the zombies, but with 95 on the way I think I'm good there.
The alternate terrain piques my interest, though my tub of DeadZone terrain is pretty full as it is with 11 BattleZones in it and 3 more on the way (and I finally finished cutting it all out! Yaaaaaaaaaaaay! *rub sore cutting hand while bandaging fingers from knife cuts*). That might get added though, along with a few more Landing Pads.
The new models I'd like to see pictures of, particularly the Plague Enforcer and Sorak. I might grab a couple of "normal" Soraks as well, because they're very characterful and I like the work shown earlier with using the hot water trick for conversions. Could be a couple sales there.
-DreadBall Extreme I like almost all the DreadBall stuff I have, so I'll be keen to see what's on offer here. Honestly, I'm more likely to go for stuff here due to the smaller model count in DB.
-"Battlefleet Mantic" Yes, yes...a thousand times yes. While fitting in with the Mantic's business model so far of "make money on the genres GW dropped out of due to a dislike of said money", it was something I thought of just this morning looking at a DeadZone box. The ships looked somewhat nifty, and I'd like to see models of them pushed around a table.
Now you're all caught up, and no you can't have those minutes of your life back.
CURSES! I demand a money back guarantee! And I want it five minutes ago!
I never got into BFG, but given all of the mantic stuff I'm accruing... I think it would be delightful to have a ship combat game to go with it. Especially since after battle systems I'll have wonderful terrain for ship interiors for boarding actions I could definitely see working out some kind of multi-game campaign across their various lines.
I'd probably want official manticverse (Ronnieverse?) ships though as I like the aesthetic put forth (so far) and dunno where else I'd look.
Looking over mantic's store today, I noticed the zombie apokalypse (or however they spell it, it's funny somehow) mega army/deal/whatever. I had forgotten it included enforcers for you to zombify. At this point, I think I'd just about wait for the second survey's deployment of fancy Scifi zombies, but I think I know what I'm gonna do with my 10 warpath enforcers from deadzone
If there really is a ManticFleet game in the works, please be sure to discuss it over in the Mantic "Fantasy" thread, and not here in the Mantic "SF" thread.
Alpharius wrote: If there really is a ManticFleet game in the works, please be sure to discuss it over in the Mantic "Fantasy" thread, and not here in the Mantic "SF" thread.
Thanks!
Well, you're just assuming that the potential fleet game isn't a space fleet game, right?
You all can have your boats in space, give me the proper ManticQuest game system.
Or pictures of more of those new metal DZ figures.
If it's just DB Extreme, I probably will also toss in my token pledge just to see how things roll. Family has absolutely no interest in trying a tabletop sports game, no matter how violent it may turn into.
HOWEVER- if we see Deadzone stat card addons for teams, or variations where the teams can just slug it out, ball be damned, I might be persuaded into checking out what Extreme is all about.
Maybe we'll end up seeing a few new terrain pieces on sprues in the form of obstacles?
Wasn't DKH4 supposed to be along the lines of this Manticquest of which you speak? I think its somewhere in the pipes.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmm stupid dbx. I can't get myself to buy DB at retail for some reason.. but I'm a sucker for KS.... makes me wonder if maybe i shoud get the martian db team in case I do buy in to dbx and get a pitch and rules...=/
highlord tamburlaine wrote: You all can have your boats in space, give me the proper ManticQuest game system.
Or pictures of more of those new metal DZ figures.
If it's just DB Extreme, I probably will also toss in my token pledge just to see how things roll. Family has absolutely no interest in trying a tabletop sports game, no matter how violent it may turn into.
HOWEVER- if we see Deadzone stat card addons for teams, or variations where the teams can just slug it out, ball be damned, I might be persuaded into checking out what Extreme is all about.
Maybe we'll end up seeing a few new terrain pieces on sprues in the form of obstacles?
Wow, you've just described the one thing that could get me interested as well... Deadzone decks for the minis and possibly a melee-combat focused expansion for DZ with extra actions for melee etc?
That would be brilliant. It could represent street gangs fighting it out to earn the rights to star in the next big game.
I'd also be quite keen to see some more sci-fi terrain sprues that could integrate with the deadzone stuff. Wrecked hovercars, street furniture, obstacles... kinda like the stuff that mars attacks had but for the warpath IP.
What about a murder ball scenario for dz? Either no shooting.. or shooting I dunno. Standard dz terrain maybe preferant to thepaintball aesthetic... goal is to run the ball to opposite end, probably would have to steal from or outright use the db rules but with cubes like dz.
The necromunda/gangsofnewyorkbuttheyplayfootball would be awesome too
Wow, you've just described the one thing that could get me interested as well... Deadzone decks for the minis and possibly a melee-combat focused expansion for DZ with extra actions for melee etc?
That would be brilliant. It could represent street gangs fighting it out to earn the rights to star in the next big game.
I'd also be quite keen to see some more sci-fi terrain sprues that could integrate with the deadzone stuff. Wrecked hovercars, street furniture, obstacles... kinda like the stuff that mars attacks had but for the warpath IP.
Guys, stop it. No more %%#^! Deadzone compatibility. That's what got me suckered into Mars Attacks. Which I loved.
Not feeling very tempted yet, though. I'm not wowed by the convict team sculpts, and while the Brokkr team looks good, I'd rather have Deadzone Brokkrs.
ScarletSquig, that's EXACTLY what I had been thinking.
Why wouldn't I want to run around with a band of escaped convicts, fighting off the plague or just fighting over turf with knives and chainsaws?
Not every battle needs Peacekeepers and Striders deployed.
DZ stats for everything and some new scatter terrain would probably end up pulling in people that might not necessarily be interested in a sports game, but could get some more bang for their skirmishing bucks.
I think I just sold myself on it.
I am also well aware of DKH4. I am also incredibly impatient and want it RIGHT NOW, since none of my other big boy dungeon crawl KS games have bothered to ship out yet.
Heaven forbid I play a game I already own though, right?
I've developed my own Dreadfleet and Battlefleet Gothic-scale games a year or so back for use with Mantic rules (Modified, of course), called, respectively Bloodfleet and Battle Fleet Mantic (BFM)
Hi everyone, the pathfinders have been passing on everyone's feedback about hard plastic Asterians/Forgefathers directly to Mantic. Ronnie has given us an update (with permission for us to pass it on) that they are looking again at the hard plastics due to the feedback. There will be an official update coming when they've worked things out.
At the moment it has to be stressed that IT IS FAR FROM CERTAIN THAT THE PLASTICS CAN BE DONE. While Mantic are looking at it again, the timescales were not the only reason why they were changed to restic. There were other concerns that I'll leave up to Mantic to disclose when they make their update.
At the moment it's about a 50:50 chance of the HP Forgefathers/Asterians happening. They'd love to make them happen but they need to overcome other factors first.
Thank you everyone for your patience. Please feel free to spread this around to other forums.
Zond wrote: I doubt it's going to happen and I think this is just an acknowledgement of fans concerns to shut them up in time for the next kickstarter.
Which, even in a worst-case where all they're doing is going through the motions of acknowledging fan feedback, is more than a lot of companies bother to do.
I wouldn't hold my breath either, but at least they said they'd take another (heavily conditional) look at it.
Yeah, pretty much the reaction I expected Dakka to have.
Keep in mind that only 2 weeks ago, this thread was full of "I bet the plague zombies are going to be crap quality and so will the enforcers and we will be blind-shipped mishapen blobs, they should just stick with restic if they can't hack it".
Now, fast-foward to a sprue that is actually really good quality having been shown off and it's still pretty much ignored in favour of focusing on the negatives.
Not that I don't agree with the points on the negatives, it's just that this place is extremely one-track with it's opinions.
Company CEO listens to recent customer feedback and issues a temporary response within a few days pending a more detailed one?
Must be lying to take the heat off, no way is the scumbag company going to listen to its customers, it just wants to distract its mewling low-IQ fanbois so they buy into the next KS like lemmings.
Personally, I'm mainly just happy that the plague zombies are good. FF/Asterians are secondary. If I don't want them in restic I don't have to pay for them and neither does anyone else (even those who already have in the first survey are offered blanket refunds). As it stands from my own perspective that simply means $100 less spent on survey 2 and I'm okay with that.
News of a good quality sprue far outweighs the minor negatives in this case. Mantic has not released a good miniatures sprue since the middle of 2011, when the KoW Orc army was released... when the plague zombies get their retail release it'll have been three whole years of nothing really hitting the right quality/ price point from the company.
I've been waiting for them to get out of that rut for a long time now, I think the inability to do hard plastic has been the main reason behind their focus on skirmish games rather than mass battle, 2014 should see them getting back to (and surpassing) their much better 2010 levels of release quality. The KoW 2.0 KS with hard plastic infantry for the Abyssal and Nature armies should be a lot of fun.
Sure I would like a good quality plastic sprue, but for the purposes of playing Deadzone, I'm "fine"* with restic.
*Not a fan of the material itself, but in the context of the number of models involved and expecting everything to be restic anyway, I'm ambivalent in this case.
The big deal for me is that core units for Warpath get quality plastic sprues.
I think it's a shame they haven't revealed what the issues are, just from a general PR point of view, I think that would help reduce the level of cynicism this move attracts.
Careful Squiggy or you'll end up embittered and repeating yourself over and over ad nauseum (with little variation) like the very posters you decry.
There is no "Dakka", as nobody ever speaks for the whole community. GW has people who defend the most loathsome of business practices here, despite there also being a very strong anti-GW contingent here. You pay attention to this thread, so you see the complainers, but it tends to be the same group of people taking everything Mantic does and intentionally adding near-conspiratorial motives to everything. Some people just need more to do with their days... /shrug
My take is "if the plastics quality wasn't good enough for Mantic's leadership, it sure as hell isn't good enough for the customers." It's a bit of an indictment of Mantic's quality issues with releases, but it's not one they haven't earned either. After all, every sprue of M@As is a testament to this until more good sprues come out. Hence why I'm fine with them coming back with a no for an answer; I'd rather decent restic than terrible plastic.
scarletsquig wrote: News of a good quality sprue far outweighs the minor negatives in this case. Mantic has not released a good miniatures sprue since the middle of 2011, when the KoW Orc army was released... when the plague zombies get their retail release it'll have been three whole years of nothing really hitting the right quality/ price point from the company.
I've been waiting for them to get out of that rut for a long time now, I think the inability to do hard plastic has been the main reason behind their focus on skirmish games rather than mass battle, 2014 should see them getting back to (and surpassing) their much better 2010 levels of release quality. The KoW 2.0 KS with hard plastic infantry for the Abyssal and Nature armies should be a lot of fun.
If the "other concerns" are that they want to make sure these space zombies actually bloody work before blowing their load on four sprues that might turn out to be crap, I'm fine with that. That's the only thing the space zombies have going for them, as far as I'm concerned. There are space zombie concepts that I think work well, but these aren't it.
my suspicion is one of the hurdles is their supplier
for the zombies (& enforcers?) I belive they agreed that mantic did not have to pay if they were not happy with the results and have therefore redone (to what degree is not clear) things at least a couple of times
I suspect the supplier would not carry on operating under those terms... They now have better idea of what mantic need so will be more likely to get things right first time but even so
so Manitc & the Supplier probably need to negotiate over who pays what if they had to re-do future spues
Company CEO listens to recent customer feedback and issues a temporary response within a few days pending a more detailed one?
Must be lying to take the heat off, no way is the scumbag company going to listen to its customers, it just wants to distract its mewling low-IQ fanbois so they buy into the next KS like lemmings.
I wish I'd typed this as my response. It's got all the vitriol and hate I missed, and lacks a wee sticky out tongue to take the edge off. Reading it I can feel the outcry of a million Mantic fans, suddenly silenced by disappointment upon seeing their KoW rewards.
scarletsquig wrote: Yeah, pretty much the reaction I expected Dakka to have.
Keep in mind that only 2 weeks ago, this thread was full of "I bet the plague zombies are going to be crap quality and so will the enforcers and we will be blind-shipped mishapen blobs, they should just stick with restic if they can't hack it".
Now, fast-foward to a sprue that is actually really good quality having been shown off and it's still pretty much ignored in favour of focusing on the negatives.
Not that I don't agree with the points on the negatives, it's just that this place is extremely one-track with it's opinions.
Company CEO listens to recent customer feedback and issues a temporary response within a few days pending a more detailed one?
Must be lying to take the heat off, no way is the scumbag company going to listen to its customers, it just wants to distract its mewling low-IQ fanbois so they buy into the next KS like lemmings.
I don't think my comments represent the overall sentiments of Dakka or even this thread. I admit that I am vocal in my disappointment with Mantic as a company as well as the products and service that I have received from them. I also don't believe that anyone, myself included, has characterized you or any other Mantic fan as "mewling low-IQ fanbois".
What I take issue with is a company that says, "We're going to do X!!" while they're trying to drum up more money then later says "We're actually going to do Y." I will grant that this is a step up for Mantic as a year ago they'd just ship the Asterians and Forgefathers as restic without telling anyone. I don't know how you perceive this but to me it's lying. You promised X and are now saying you never promised it; you're saying you actually said you'd look into when the record shows you PROMISED it. That's a lie. Not a misunderstanding, not a miscommunication, a lie.
As a consumer, it's not my problem that Mantic is in bed with a low-cots supplier which is appears completely incapable of making simple kits like the M@As without screwing the pooch. It was their decision to cut corners and save costs, not mine. As a consumer I'm only concerned with getting the product that was promised to me. I don't want 5 free of this or 10 free of that, I want what I paid for, plain and simple. Mantic drew my money by promising certain services and merchandise and then failed to deliver in the KoW campaign and are now doing the same thing with DeadZone. I'm not OK with this and noone should be. If you're OK with it, that doesn't make you a fanbois, but I might just have some prime swampland that you'd be interested in; the castle on it has only fallen into the swamp twice now. I don't owe Mantic anything; they owe me the product they promised. I'm willing to wait for my product if need be while they work things out with their supplier but delays are a part of Kickstarters.
I like the zombies. I am tempted to go back on my initial word of not giving Mantic any more money and actually buy some since I didn't pledge for any initially but they're not God's gift to plastic; that gets reserved for things produced by WGF, a Chinese manufacturer that actually does things correctly. The one pose with the zombie holding a wrench out seems uninspired to me; it's like he's trying to hand me a tool while I'm working on my car. But hey, to each his/her own; if people think they're the bees knees, more power to them.
And what's with the communication through non-official channels? Why are we getting such big word from a Pathfinder? Ronnie should be on KS but the fact is that Mantic has been a non-presence on the KS page for some time now outside of the recent update.
Also, Chinese New Year ended a day ago so that excuse has reached its limit. Not expecting immediate answers but it should have been a non-issue anyway considering, you know, they promised plastic to begin with.
I wasn't sure about agnosto's promise quote so I went back and checked and he's correct
Update 117
If the method works well on the zombies I will ensure everyone gets all of the Enforcers they ordered in their second shipment, along with the Forge Guard and the Asterian Cyphers in hard plastic. If it is not up to the quality we expect, I will keep all those kits in resin plastic as was originally planned in the Kickstarter, and we will put the Peacekeepers into Resin Plastic as well.
So on the basis that the zombies worked well then that looks like Asterians and FF should be hard plastic as well.
At this stage I expect restic and will be very surprised by HP if it happens.
@agnosto: That's fair enough. Different perceptions and all. However I don't see a change of plan due to unforseen events as a slight or a "break of promise".
To me:
- Men-at-arms situation of blind shipping 200 of the things to me without showing the sprues first, knowing that we'd probably think they were terrible = pretty much the worst thing the company has ever done. So, there's one thing we can agree on since we're both KoW backers.
- Dreadball teams should have been restic, not metal. Major u-turn that was only discovered when people opened their boxes. Massive fail from Mantic since they gave people no options to deal with that before shipping.
- FF/Asterian situation of saying hard plastic, but then saying restic and offering a full refund IN ADVANCE if you bought based on hard plastic = totally fine, and what they should have been doing in their other kickstarters.
For me, I don't mind if they screw up, as long as I'm not stuck with the screwup. I have 200 screwups in a drawer and don't want anymore! The final price/quality of the minis that I've chosen to invest in the production of via KS is my only concern. If, on the other hand I'd spent $100 on what I thought was hard plastic FF/Asterians and they turned up terrible quality, or as restic instead when I opened the box with bugger all word from Mantic about it, I'd be annoyed.
Good point about Chinese new year, this should get sorted fairly quickly then.
Krinsath wrote: I'd rather decent restic than terrible plastic.
And that is part of the problem, the restic figures delivered for DreadBall and Deadzone kickstarters have been of mixed quality, even among the same figure.
What I'm guessing is that Mantic there is a measurable drop in second survey pledges due to restic (and metal) and that has given Mantic some new motivation to have another look at hard plastic.
While I would be "okayish" with restic A/FF I appreciate that other people are willing to vote with their wallets in a big enough way to possibly affect the decision.
lord_blackfang wrote: What I'm guessing is that Mantic there is a measurable drop in second survey pledges due to restic (and metal) and that has given Mantic some new motivation to have another look at hard plastic.
While I would be "okayish" with restic A/FF I appreciate that other people are willing to vote with their wallets in a big enough way to possibly affect the decision.
The way I heard it, they're doing it because feedback in every channel was so heavily in favour of hard plastic that they were compelled to explore it in depth again so that they could carefully explain why not if all of the different numbers still don't work, nothing to do with survey results.
agnosto wrote: What I take issue with is a company that says, "We're going to do X!!" while they're trying to drum up more money then later says "We're actually going to do Y."
Was the announcement about the HP switch during a survey? I can't be sure but I thought the first survey had closed at that point. And didn't we know about the restic switchback before the second survey? Honest questions, I don't recall the timeline of events.
Regardess, I'm okay with restic Asterians as I picked them way, way back before any of the HP talk had started. However, I will be cancelling any plans that I may have formulated since to get them in Warpath-suitable numbers, and they'll be staying solely the preserve of Deadzone.
scarletsquig wrote: @agnosto: That's fair enough. Different perceptions and all. However I don't see a change of plan due to unforseen events as a slight or a "break of promise".
To me:
- Men-at-arms situation of blind shipping 200 of the things to me without showing the sprues first, knowing that we'd probably think they were terrible = pretty much the worst thing the company has ever done. So, there's one thing we can agree on since we're both KoW backers.
- Dreadball teams should have been restic, not metal. Major u-turn that was only discovered when people opened their boxes. Massive fail from Mantic since they gave people no options to deal with that before shipping.
- FF/Asterian situation of saying hard plastic, but then saying restic and offering a full refund IN ADVANCE if you bought based on hard plastic = totally fine, and what they should have been doing in their other kickstarters.
For me, I don't mind if they screw up, as long as I'm not stuck with the screwup. I have 200 screwups in a drawer and don't want anymore! The final price/quality of the minis that I've chosen to invest in the production of via KS is my only concern. If, on the other hand I'd spent $100 on what I thought was hard plastic FF/Asterians and they turned up terrible quality, or as restic instead when I opened the box with bugger all word from Mantic about it, I'd be annoyed.
Good point about Chinese new year, this should get sorted fairly quickly then.
Why wouldn't I want to run around with a band of escaped convicts, fighting off the plague or just fighting over turf with knives and chainsaws?
Not every battle needs Peacekeepers and Striders deployed.
You mean, why not just basically remake Necromunda?
Mantic got too cute trying to make their own world, and making the DZ factions warpath compatible, and IMO dropped the ball a bit. Making an "arcology" expansion, with multiple human gangs, would be awesome. I think they might be too worried about looking at only mining GW's ideas, but frankly, as Dreadball shows, somebody needs to run with those ideas.
Kow shows that people want simple, elegant, ranks and flanks fantasy. Dreadball shows a huge market for sportsball games. There are markets for gang-fighting skirmish, and fantasy skirmish, and probably even naval combat.
Decided to use the shields and spears for converting some perry foot knights to look more "fantasy" when they're released (to use as basilean MAA). Also they come with bases which I'll need for the perrys.
The minis cost $0.62 each, and a mantic base bought separately costs $0.17.. so that's a quarter of the loss refunded already, leaving it at $0.45 for a fancy fantasy spear and shield bit.. cheaper than a bitz site for GW stuff, anyway.
Also, the crossbowmen look pretty good (they replace the arms which is the main thing that's horrible about the mantic MAA), so I may bitz order some crossbow arms from Mantic at some point and get a bunch of them to put on the spare torsos. The minis will do okay for converting war machine crew too.
scarletsquig wrote: @agnosto: That's fair enough. Different perceptions and all. However I don't see a change of plan due to unforseen events as a slight or a "break of promise".
To me:
- Men-at-arms situation of blind shipping 200 of the things to me without showing the sprues first, knowing that we'd probably think they were terrible = pretty much the worst thing the company has ever done. So, there's one thing we can agree on since we're both KoW backers.
- Dreadball teams should have been restic, not metal. Major u-turn that was only discovered when people opened their boxes. Massive fail from Mantic since they gave people no options to deal with that before shipping.
- FF/Asterian situation of saying hard plastic, but then saying restic and offering a full refund IN ADVANCE if you bought based on hard plastic = totally fine, and what they should have been doing in their other kickstarters.
For me, I don't mind if they screw up, as long as I'm not stuck with the screwup. I have 200 screwups in a drawer and don't want anymore! The final price/quality of the minis that I've chosen to invest in the production of via KS is my only concern. If, on the other hand I'd spent $100 on what I thought was hard plastic FF/Asterians and they turned up terrible quality, or as restic instead when I opened the box with bugger all word from Mantic about it, I'd be annoyed.
Good point about Chinese new year, this should get sorted fairly quickly then.
Fair points all and this is why I respect you SS; you've maintained a balanced perspective while I've decidedly gone the bitter route. I had high hopes for Mantic, they let me down, continue to let me down and now I just want done with them. As soon as this KS is over, I'm walking away whistling and will give the several thousand I spend each year on hobby purchases to another company.
The concern I have about a refunds is that I recall one backer who took them up on the refund and was still trying to get it two months later while three different Mantic staff gave him the run around; he posted all over the KS page about it. I think he eventually opened a dispute with his credit card company. So, no, I'll take whatever product they produce in whatever material they throw out and try to make do rather than chance their corporate culture on a refund.
agnosto wrote: What I take issue with is a company that says, "We're going to do X!!" while they're trying to drum up more money then later says "We're actually going to do Y."
Was the announcement about the HP switch during a survey? I can't be sure but I thought the first survey had closed at that point. And didn't we know about the restic switchback before the second survey? Honest questions, I don't recall the timeline of events.
Regardess, I'm okay with restic Asterians as I picked them way, way back before any of the HP talk had started. However, I will be cancelling any plans that I may have formulated since to get them in Warpath-suitable numbers, and they'll be staying solely the preserve of Deadzone.
Update 103 on July 19, 2013 -
Mantic wrote:Sunday is your last chance to get your finalized survey into us.
Mantic wrote:Good news ladies and gentlemen – we’re going to be producing hard plastic sprues for the Enforcers, Asterian Cyphers and Forge Father Forge Guard!
So yes, they had that bit of news before the 1st survey closed.
They announced the change to restic at the same time they released survey 2. Interesting how the survey doesn't have a "give me my money back" option next to the Asterians and ForgeGuard.
Update 130, January 31:
Mantic wrote:We did suggest at one point they would go hard plastic too
Suggest? What a bunch of $#*! liars, you outright said it!
Usual Mantic bait and switch.
Mantic wrote:Plastic....plastic....Restic! Sucker, I can't believe you actually trusted us again!
Mantic got too cute trying to make their own world
Are you seriously suggesting Mantic should never have bothered making their own world, and just made a bunch of stuff you can play Necromunda with?
Me, I've never played Necromunda, not ever planning to either. I like that the Deadzone and Warpath factions are the same, and have an amount of interchangeability with the models, I think it adds immensely to the universe they're trying to build.
I'm pretty sure that the success so far, that being that Deadzone is now their highest selling item, indicates there was plenty of market for what they made.
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agnosto wrote: [
They announced the change to restic at the same time they released survey 2. Interesting how the survey doesn't have a "give me my money back" option next to the Asterians and ForgeGuard.
You mean aside from the "we will give you a full refund" announcement with it?
I haven't been here all that long, but the people were right, Dakka
Mantic got too cute trying to make their own world
Are you seriously suggesting Mantic should never have bothered making their own world, and just made a bunch of stuff you can play Necromunda with?
Me, I've never played Necromunda, not ever planning to either. I like that the Deadzone and Warpath factions are the same, and have an amount of interchangeability with the models, I think it adds immensely to the universe they're trying to build.
I'm pretty sure that the success so far, that being that Deadzone is now their highest selling item, indicates there was plenty of market for what they made.
I'm happy with Deadzone, I'm just surprised they didn't more actively go after the gangfighting die hards. It's not that they shouldn't; make a world, they just should have broadened the appeal a bit. My two cents.
I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it's so full of win. Zero-cheesecake, totally serious, sick-ass monobike 
).
