I apologize if this was mentioned earlier, but I just read this in the new Chaos Daemon codex. On pages 16-17, The section devoted to Slannesh's fluff, it mentions in great detail about a "wandering knight of the Adeptus Astartes whose will was as strong as silvered adamanteum". The section continues to use the moniker of "wanderer" to describe the lone Space Marine's travels through the realm of chaos and towards the very end he falls and is seduced into Slaanesh's whips and servitude. What do you think, is it really Draigo? I hope so, I laughed for about 5 minutes straight.

It has to be. This is awesome!

I do not think Mr. Paladin would be back on a regular basis to toast greater daemons if he fell to Slaanesh.

 Seb wrote:
I do not think Mr. Paladin would be back on a regular basis to toast greater daemons if he fell to Slaanesh.

has he been toasting greater daemons of slaanesh? Seems like he is just an instrument of slaanesh being used against the other gods.

Can't be Draigo... could be... I'll let the vid explain
Note, NSFW

 Ribon Fox wrote:
Can't be Draigo... could be... I'll let the vid explain
Note, NSFW

Spoiler:

Those guys got some great stuff

 Seb wrote:
I do not think Mr. Paladin would be back on a regular basis to toast greater daemons if he fell to Slaanesh.

Draigo could still be in future codexes. Many codexes have characters that are dead at the present time.

A Sister of Battle and now maybe a Grey Knight, how divine.

All hail the Dark Prince

How powerful they made him sound in the GK codex I had him pegged as emperor reborn or at least a primarch. Oh, well moving along... haha

Well, the Grey Knights are not members of the Adeptus Astartes.

I don't recall anyone else being lost in the warp however...

IT'S A MYSTERY! :O

Iranna.

 Ribon Fox wrote:
Can't be Draigo... could be... I'll let the vid explain
Note, NSFW

Spoiler:

Wow, I almost fell outa my chair laughing at points in that vid. Good show.

And I was blown away by the deamon codex entry as it was basically a giant middle finger to Matt Ward's fluff.

Isn't Russ also wandering the warp though? Possibly werewolf form? Searching for the tree of life or some such? I'm not much of a lore nut, correct me if I'm off base here. If these statements are true he could also be seen as a ademantium willed member of the Astartes.

 buddha wrote:

And I was blown away by the deamon codex entry as it was basically a giant middle finger to Matt Ward's fluff.

I liked the Changling's story about how one of the Grey Knights that killed all the innocent refugees had a moment of doubt, possibly enough to allow the Changling to sow the first seeds of corruption in a Grey Knight.

This is Kelly's way of telling Ward "grown-ups are talking now, take your fanwank somewhere else"

Great if true, but it's one of those speculative teasers GW will never answer.

I se this thread is evolving in another Ward hate thread.
I'll sit back and watch the show

Was it 'little does he know he's already fallen' or 'he's already fallen' or 'he will fall into this trap'???

My bet is that this is Lucius.

Yeah, but isn't phil kelly murdering fluff now as well?
Grey Knights have always been incorruptible, that wasn't a matt ward thing. And now one of them gets a bit queasy over killing some innocents? Yeah, not buying it.
I get that people don't like matt ward fluff, but shouldn't those same people get mad at this tidbit for the VERY same reason? Good way to figure out who's just riding the bandwagon...

Grey Knights are not incorruptible. None just have been corrupted... yet.

 Crimson wrote:
Grey Knights are not incorruptible. None just have been corrupted... yet.

...that we know of.

 Exergy wrote:

...that we know of.

That too.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
This is Kelly's way of telling Ward "grown-ups are talking now, take your fanwank somewhere else"

Or the classic way that codexes interpret fluff according to the faction they are written about...

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Was it 'little does he know he's already fallen' or 'he's already fallen' or 'he will fall into this trap'???

More like "he meets Slaanesh face to face, can't bring himself to stab the pretty thing, kneels instead and lets Slaanesh knight him"

 Crimson wrote:
Grey Knights are not incorruptible. None just have been corrupted... yet.

Wasn't that true of the Sisters of Battle for a long time too, until they decided to corrupt some?

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
My bet is that this is Lucius.

Makes more sense.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Grey Knights are not incorruptible. None just have been corrupted... yet.

Wasn't that true of the Sisters of Battle for a long time too, until they decided to corrupt some?

One, so far. Not some.

 pretre wrote:
One, so far. Not some.

I was thinking of some of the content in Inferno too, so that may not be to everyone's taste fluffwise

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
One, so far. Not some.

I was thinking of some of the content in Inferno too, so that may not be to everyone's taste fluffwise

Wasn't Inferno fanfic? (Literally?)

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
My bet is that this is Lucius.

Lucius was well in the thrall of Slaanesh before he began traveling the Realm of Chaos though. This makes it sound like it's referring to someone who maintains their loyalty while traversing the Realm of Chaos until they eventually succumb.

Which definitely points to Draigo.

It could be one of the lost Primarchs.

*Silently leaves thread through the back entrance*

 Avatar 720 wrote:
It could be one of the lost Primarchs.

*Silently leaves thread through the back entrance*

Perhaps, though the use of "knight" is highly suggestive as well.

 Crimson wrote:
Grey Knights are not incorruptible.

"Each Grey Knight is an accomplished, powerful psyker whose psychic presence is anathema to creatures of the Warp. They are trained to channel their psychic energies into a halo of protective wards known as The Aegis. Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption, able to wield forbidden black magic, harness tainted artefacts and scour blasphemous tomes all without risk of being overwhelmed by the cursed power of Chaos. The Grey Knights hold a unique honour among the chapters of the Adeptus Astartes - in over ten thousand years of service, not a single one of their number has ever defected to Chaos."

Fluff disagree with you.

@BCA: That simply indicates that none have fallen yet.

 pretre wrote:
@BCA: That simply indicates that none have fallen yet.

By that logic Emperor can be corrupted too. It's that Chaos Gods just didn't try yet, or maybe they already did but we don't know... ( pointing to the last mission of DoW:Retribution )

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 pretre wrote:
@BCA: That simply indicates that none have fallen yet.

By that logic Emperor can be corrupted too. It's that Chaos Gods just didn't try yet, or maybe they already did but we don't know... ( pointing to the last mission of DoW:Retribution )

Well, we know the step between Emperor and Grey Knight has fallen at least once... So yeah, it is possible for anyone to fall.

Excellent, now give me a proof from fluff that Emperor can be corrupted.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Excellent, now give me a proof from fluff that Emperor can be corrupted.

Why? There's no reason it matters.

The Grey Knights are immune to corruption as long as their Aegis is up (or so the fluff you quoted says). What happens when their Aegis is down? Oh yeah, not immune to corruption.

 pretre wrote:

Why? There's no reason it matters.

The Grey Knights are immune to corruption as long as their Aegis is up (or so the fluff you quoted says). What happens when their Aegis is down? Oh yeah, not immune to corruption.

That is because Emperor cannot be corrupter, he is anathema to all Chaos like all human psykers that can be trained to fight them. Same goes for Grey Knights, the very idea that they are incorruptible is because they are carrying his geen-seed + they have best anti-Chaos training Imperium can provide. Take Garran Crowe for example - he is carrying daemon infested sword at all times and he is doing it with only his very own psychic power, without Aegis.

So please, until the day GW says so - Grey Knights are incorruptible. Sorry, correction - impossible to corrupt ( at least on psychical level, I am not to sure about flesh ).

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
That is because Emperor cannot be corrupter, he is anathema to all Chaos like all human psykers that can be trained to fight them.

Not germane to the argument.

Same goes for Grey Knights, the very idea that they are incorruptible is because they are carrying his geen-seed

You just contradicted your own fluff quote. They are incorruptible because of psychic shielding and their power creating an Aegis.

Take Garran Crowe for example - he is carrying daemon infested sword at all times and he is doing it with only his very own psychic power, without Aegis.

Their psychic power creates the Aegis. Again, read your own quote.

So please, until the day GW says so - Grey Knights are incorruptible. Sorry, correction - impossible to corrupt ( at least on psychical level, I am not to sure about flesh ).

As long as they maintain their Aegis, yes. They are not immune to physical corruption.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, just double checked Crowe, it specifically says he has to psychically battle it constantly. Hence, if he lowers the Aegis of his powers, he could be corrupted. Otherwise there would be no battle.

 pretre wrote:

Not germane to the argument.

It is, because Emperor cannot be corrupted by any means and Grey Knights carry his geen-seed.

You just contradicted your own fluff quote. They are incorruptible because of psychic shielding and their power creating an Aegis.

I didn't I backed it with the fact that they are carrying Emperor's geen-seed. That is a big + to their fight against Chaos corruption.

Their psychic power creates the Aegis. Again, read your own quote.

Not entirely true - 50% psychic powers and 50% power armor battery. But it is also said that grey Knights are trained to use their own psychic powers to protect their minds without the use of Aegis. If ordinary psykers can do that why Grey Knights couldn't?

Yeah, just double checked Crowe, it specifically says he has to psychically battle it constantly. Hence, if he lowers the Aegis of his powers, he could be corrupted. Otherwise there would be no battle.

I did and it says that he is doing psychic battle with the blade at all times, indicating that he is still battling him even when his Aegis is down. And that is why Grey Knights are incorruptible - because with the Aegis they have very strong psychic shield that they create from their own psychic power. The only way for Chaos to corrupt them is to offer them prices if they do - like they did to certain Primarchs to corrupt them. And sice Grey Knights live only for two things - war against Chaos and Emperor, we will never see Grey Knight falling to Chaos mentally.

Now give me a proff of Grey Knight falling to Chaos.
This "mysterious knight" cannot possibly be Draigo, Kelly is not that stupid to wreck some of the basic 40k lore.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

That is because Emperor cannot be corrupter, he is anathema to all Chaos like all human psykers that can be trained to fight them. Same goes for Grey Knights, the very idea that they are incorruptible is because they are carrying his geen-seed + they have best anti-Chaos training Imperium can provide. Take Garran Crowe for example - he is carrying daemon infested sword at all times and he is doing it with only his very own psychic power, without Aegis.

Grey Knights don't have Emperor's geneseed. Emperor was not a Primarch, he doesn't have geneseed. And the fact that the Grey Knights have to use their powers and struggle against corruption contains the possibility that they could also fail.

But this is same sort of gak than in the Primarch thread, people do not only want their heroes to succeed, they want them to do so without an effort or any risk. I do not get this. If you cannot fail, succeeding is not an accomplishment.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Not germane to the argument.

It is, because Emperor cannot be corrupted by any means and Grey Knights carry his geen-seed.

The first part has no fluff backing and the second part is arguable. The codex says it is a new gene-seed and was blessed by the emperor's body and soul. The Emperor doesn't have Gene-Seed however, so it just used parts of him to make it.

I didn't I backed it with the fact that they are carrying Emperor's geen-seed. That is a big + to their fight against Chaos corruption.

It may help, but there is no mention in any of the fluff of that making them immune. Why would Crowe struggle with the blade if he is immune to its corruption? If he was immune, he'd just throw it in a scabbard and call it a day.

Not entirely true - 50% psychic powers and 50% power armor battery. But it is also said that grey Knights are trained to use their own psychic powers to protect their minds without the use of Aegis. If ordinary psykers can do that why Grey Knights couldn't?

Again, contradicting yourself. So without the Power Armor battery, they are 50% corruptible?

I did and it says that he is doing psychic battle with the blade at all times, indicating that he is still battling him even when his Aegis is down. And that is why Grey Knights are incorruptible - because with the Aegis they have very strong psychic shield that they create from their own psychic power. The only way for Chaos to corrupt them is to offer them prices if they do - like they did to certain Primarchs to corrupt them. And sice Grey Knights live only for two things - war against Chaos and Emperor, we will never see Grey Knight falling to Chaos mentally.

Why battle if you can't lose? And you just made my point, if a Grey Knight CAN fall to chaos (even if just by gift) then they are not incorruptible.

Now give me a proff of Grey Knight falling to Chaos.

There isn't any because it hasn't happened yet. Just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it won't happen.

This "mysterious knight" cannot possibly be Draigo,

It could be Draigo, although I find it unlikely. It is also probably just written from the Daemon perspective, as most books are, and is propaganda (just as much of the GK codex is).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
If you cannot fail, succeeding is not an accomplishment.

Exactly.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 pretre wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Grey Knights are not incorruptible. None just have been corrupted... yet.

Wasn't that true of the Sisters of Battle for a long time too, until they decided to corrupt some?

One, so far. Not some.

You could argue that the bloodtide event in the grey knight codex corrupted a good deal of sisters. They instantly turned on their fellow sisters.

So basically this is just another story that GW has come up with that will never be answered and people will always speculate about?

Its more than possible.

Even the Emperor could be corrupted, hence he is feeding on Souls, and that the Chaos Gods havent overpowered him, because he effectively is one.

I also think it would be more than possible for Draigo to fall to Chaos, especially considerring that anything under constant pressure will break eventually.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Why? There's no reason it matters.

The Grey Knights are immune to corruption as long as their Aegis is up (or so the fluff you quoted says). What happens when their Aegis is down? Oh yeah, not immune to corruption.

That is because Emperor cannot be corrupter, he is anathema to all Chaos like all human psykers that can be trained to fight them. Same goes for Grey Knights, the very idea that they are incorruptible is because they are carrying his geen-seed + they have best anti-Chaos training Imperium can provide. Take Garran Crowe for example - he is carrying daemon infested sword at all times and he is doing it with only his very own psychic power, without Aegis.

So please, until the day GW says so - Grey Knights are incorruptible. Sorry, correction - impossible to corrupt ( at least on psychical level, I am not to sure about flesh ).

The GK are not immune to the physical effects of Chaos. If they were, they would not have needed to saw Sisters apart with chainswords to resist the Bloodtide. As it was, however, this was a required component for their continued protection. Also, immune to the effects of corruption means that, for example, a GK can pick up a Daemon Weapon or a grimoire or whatever, and not have his mind immediately ripped asunder by the Daemon contained therein, and can even employ such a thing. However, this does not make a GK immune to such machinations as the Daemon may employ that makes the GK wake up one morning and say, "You know what? Last week, I rammed my chainsword through the chest of a nineteen year old girl who only ever wanted to serve the God-Emperor faithfully, and I said that it was what He required. What the hell am I doing with my life? Is *this* what the God-Emperor wants me to do? Really? You know what? Feth that guy... eight-rayed stars and tentacles all the way!" ... this has not yet happened to a GK, but there is no guarantee that it *won't*.

We also have no idea if the Emperor was immune to corruption, by default, or if He simply was not corrupted because His force of will was such that He resisted the temptations of Chaos.

All Space Marines carried His gene-seed, as did all of the Primarchs (directly)... and yet, fully half of them Fell. One can carry a Daemon Weapon and, assuming one is of sufficient force of will, resist its mind-control, warpy effects... at least, for awhile. A moment of doubt, however...

Does anyone else find it interesting that people keep pointing out the word 'anathema' as proof that the Emperor is both immune to and a threat to Chaos when the word actually means 'sacrifice' or 'exile'?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
kneels instead and lets Slaanesh knight him"

Some kind of innuendo?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Durza wrote:
Does anyone else find it interesting that people keep pointing out the word 'anathema' as proof that the Emperor is both immune to and a threat to Chaos when the word actually means 'sacrifice' or 'exile'?

Sacrifice? Anathema in this context means "contrary to."

Br. Cpt. Alex keeps saying the Emperor cannot be "corrupted" but I'm not sure what that means. The simplest definition of corruption I can think of is "serves, voluntary or otherwise, the Ruinous Powers." In that broad sense, everyone is corrupted inasmuch as experiencing feelings empowers and draws the Chaos Gods -- especially concerning psykers. And the Emperor is a hugely powerful psyker and therefore very strongly draws their attention. TBH, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Imperium was basically just the Emperor's "security system" against the Chaos Gods and he has no other motive than self-preservation.

Anyhow, before anyone can claim that the Emperor or a GK can or cannot be "corrupted" we're going to need a definition of "corrupt."

The Changeling short story shows that it can't be Draigo - or indeed ANY Grey Knight - that fell to Slaanesh in his domain. Reason being, it admits that no Grey Knight has fallen *yet*.
Whether or not one could fall and/or will fall, is down to us as players and storytellers to decide. But for now, none have fallen yet, and that means the one that already fell can't be a Grey Knight.

 Super Ready wrote:
The Changeling short story shows that it can't be Draigo - or indeed ANY Grey Knight - that fell to Slaanesh in his domain. Reason being, it admits that no Grey Knight has fallen *yet*.
Whether or not one could fall and/or will fall, is down to us as players and storytellers to decide. But for now, none have fallen yet, and that means the one that already fell can't be a Grey Knight.

Again, you're falling for the bias of the storyteller. The GK codex tells us that no GK has fallen yet... That we know of... The Changeling tells us a GK has fallen... Or he could be trying to spin positive on Draigo.

Really, you never know until you have the story from an out of universe source, which we hardly ever get.

All this talk of "yet" is also weird. There is no time in the Warp, at least not relative to real space (therefore, it is possible for a ship to reach its destination before leaving, etc), therefore the idea that no GK has fallen "yet" (i.e., as of "now" -- which is when again? what is the specific "present" of a codex? especially one about Chaos) is not really determinative.

 Manchu wrote:

Br. Cpt. Alex keeps saying the Emperor cannot be "corrupted" but I'm not sure what that means.

In a way that the Chaos Gods overpower his will and twist him into becoming Daemon Emperor of Mankind, just like they have done to his Primarchs who have fallen to corruption.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
In a way that the Chaos Gods overpower his will and twist him into becoming Daemon Emperor of Mankind, just like they have done to his Primarchs who have fallen to corruption.

The Chaos Gods didn't overpower the Primarchs. Some of them came willingly.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
In a way that the Chaos Gods overpower his will and twist him into becoming Daemon Emperor of Mankind, just like they have done to his Primarchs who have fallen to corruption.

I am wondering which Primarch achieved daemonhood against their will. The closest case is Fulgrim, but that is highly questionable at this point. Anyway, just assuming that is the case -- are you basically saying that "being corrupted" means being possessed such that you aren't in control of yourself any more? In that sense, you are saying that it is impossible for the Emperor or a GK to be possessed against their will? Are you also saying that it is impossible that a GK or the Emperor could consent to possession? So, for example, let's say a GK was in a scenario like "the Exorcist" where he needed to take a daemonic spirit into himself and then commit suicide to banish it. Would he not be able to do that?

Or, to give you the much shorter version, I don't think your definition is specific enough.

Here's another question: Does corruption require consent?

 Manchu wrote:

Here's another question: Does corruption require consent?

It depends, those who want to be corrupted allow it.
Those who do not have to fight against it and in those kind of scenarios corruption doesn't require consent. That is also the scenario for Grey Knights.

The Grey Knight in the Changeling story wasn't exactly a full blown heretic the moment he saw the innocents getting blown up.

He was a raw recruit who had a doubt for a split second, and then returned to his duties.

But a split second is all Chaos needs to sow the seed.

The story is about the one of the many schemes the Changeling has. It doesn't end with a Grey Knight having a slight doubt about the ethics of his order.

It probably doesn't end with a heretical Grey Knight either, too predictable.

It is just one small piece of an almighty puzzle.


As for Grey Knights being incorruptible in general, they aren't. Holier and stronger willed individuals have fallen to the temptations of Chaos.

That fluff you quoted is old. New fluff is that with Chaos, anything is possible.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Here's another question: Does corruption require consent?

It depends, those who want to be corrupted allow it.
Those who do not have to fight against it and in those kind of scenarios corruption doesn't require consent. That is also the scenario for Grey Knights.

So you think GK do not have to "fight against" being corrupted (you still haven't told me what you mean by corruption) and that means that whether they become corrupted is not a matter of their consent? I don't think I understand your argument.

But here's the closest I can get:

GKs are so pure they do not have to actively guard against corruption; being corrupted is not one of their concerns. They cannot "give in" to corruption because they are not troubled with the matter in the first place. In other words, it is not a question that is on their minds: it is beyond their conception as pure warriors. Therefore, because a GK cannot even conceive of being corrupted any corruption he suffers must ipso facto be against his will.

Is that what you mean?

If so, then you must also be saying that a GK can become corrupted -- just that he cannot willingly do so. Unless you also use the "purity card" to say that they can't even be corrupted against their will ...

My bigger problem with that argument is that it assumes this awesome purity of the GK -- but where does that come from? This ties back to the question of the Emperor and ultimately what the definition of corruption is. We have to know what corruption means to know what pure means OR we have to know what pure means to know what corruption means.

Right now, you haven't defined either with adequate precision.

If this is Draigo, then the GK are lead by Chaos, making Chapter 666 sort of like a traitor chapter, yet they are the most resilient to Daemons, blah blah blah. FETH YOU WARD!

I hope so. Im so sick of the GK super fan boys pleasuring themselves to the Draigo fluff. Its just so over the top its silly.

Unfortunately however it probably isnt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Here's another question: Does corruption require consent?

It depends, those who want to be corrupted allow it.
Those who do not have to fight against it and in those kind of scenarios corruption doesn't require consent. That is also the scenario for Grey Knights.

We have seen time and time again that it does NOT require consent. Primarchs fell to the lure of chaos because it is cunning and doesnt reveal itself until it is too late. Thats what makes it so deliciously eeeviiiil. Anything is possible with chaos.

Put it this way, even if it wasn't true, isn't it the kind of thing Slaaneshi daemons would lie about?

Same with Draigo -- even if all his supposed exploits were false, isn't that the kind of propaganda and legend that grows up in all parts of the Imperium?

So basically, Slaanesh heard the GK were saying these lies about Draigo fething up stuff in the Warp and so he made up some other lies about how Draigo now worships Slaanesh ... and this is closer to what happened IRL as between two codex writers ...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thatguy91 wrote:
it does NOT require consent. Primarchs fell to the lure of chaos ...

I definitely agree that Chaos does not need your consent but the traitor Primarchs aren't the best example of that ...

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Was it 'little does he know he's already fallen' or 'he's already fallen' or 'he will fall into this trap'???

More like "he meets Slaanesh face to face, can't bring himself to stab the pretty thing, kneels instead and lets Slaanesh knight him"

Of all the thing's for slaanesh to do when you kneel in front of him, knighting you was not the one I would expect him/her/it to do.

It's obviously a euphism for what he did with his gun sword of ectoplasmic goo.

The real question is...

Was it a Longsword, an Eviscerator, or just a Powerblade?

You think Slaanesh is only using one sword at a time? Ha!

 Manchu wrote:
(you still haven't told me what you mean by corruption)

Want the simplest answer ( even if I already gave you one ): corruption takes the form of contrasting a pure spiritual form with a corrupted manifestation in the physical world. Also, corruption is the process of ceasing to exist and is closely related to the concept of dying given certain views about the nature of living things. So we have corruption in terms of twisting ideals and turning them into exact opposite of that ( normal man to murderer, painter to lunatic, honorable warrior into butcher etc... ) and corruption in terms that it is something that kills you slowly until you are no more. In 40k terms both cases can be applied as when daemons and Chaos forces "corrupt" you they mutate your body until you are unrecognizable and if they are strong enough they actually kill your personality and claim your soul.

If so, then you must also be saying that a GK can become corrupted -- just that he cannot willingly do so. Unless you also use the "purity card" to say that they can't even be corrupted against their will ...

I meant for their souls, I already know that their bodies can be corrupted. My point was for their souls, Chaos cannot corrupt their souls because they are to pure to be corrupt. Plus, their souls are guided when they die and supposedly go to the Emperor and become one with him. That is what the codex meant, no Grey Knight fell to temptation of Chaos, when he was alive and after he died on the battlefield.

My bigger problem with that argument is that it assumes this awesome purity of the GK -- but where does that come from? This ties back to the question of the Emperor and ultimately what the definition of corruption is. We have to know what corruption means to know what pure means OR we have to know what pure means to know what corruption means.

Geen-seed taken directly from Emperor gives them some bonuses and the fact that they are praying and killing every set of emotions they can for their entire life is what makes them so resistant.

So, they are somehow more pure than the Primarchs, who are all the direct sons of the Emperor... it can even be argued that each of the Primarchs was a clone of the Emperor... and yet half of them willingly turned to Chaos?

To be fair, before the Heresy, there wasn't such a constant threat of Chaos corruption. I'm pretty sure the Primarchs turned partly because they didn't understand what Chaos was exactly and didn't have 10,000 years of training to prevent corruption.

Exactly ,Primarch had no idea about Chaos while GK are constantly to fight it.

While that may be the case, if you can make a guy 100% immune to Chaos and Corruption, isn't a better use of that technology installing them as Planetary Governors, thus ensuring that key Imperial Worlds never fall prey to corruption, greed, and incompetence?

40k has enough massively glaring errors and holes without you poking more into it.

 Psienesis wrote:
While that may be the case, if you can make a guy 100% immune to Chaos and Corruption, isn't a better use of that technology installing them as Planetary Governors, thus ensuring that key Imperial Worlds never fall prey to corruption, greed, and incompetence?

There are ~1.000.000 worlds and only 1.000 Grey Knights ( thank you Ward ), and Grey Knights were made for two things - war and resisting Chaos corruption.
To run a world you fist need to be politician and not solder, furthermore Grey Knights are quite expensive to 'made'. Only one of million psykers survive to become grey Knight, and that only after centuries of training and training and training. It is comon knowledge taht their training is hard even for ordinary Astartes, so I have nothing more to say there.

And why sue them when you have something better - Inquisitors who can also protect their mind with their psychic powers.

IMO, GK are better... as a story-element... if they are 100% immune (by training, through faith, through wargear, through vile ritual preparation) to the physical effects of Chaos, but must remain ever-vigilant against the mental effects, the temptations of Chaos, that can turn all that they've been working towards to ruin.

The temptations of Chaos can be very subtle, and have effects that ripple through centuries, even millennia, long after the person who originally fell has left the mortal plane. Things like "take up this blade, be the greatest of the Emperor's Champions!" seems like a straight-forward sort of deal... but this invites jealousies, rivalries, and all sorts of other issues that can compromise what the GK are about, and so each individual GK must be on guard against these all-too-human frailties.

There's other forms these subtle temptations can take, and I think the fact that the fluff keeps pointing us towards the fact that "in 10,000 years, not one of their number has ever willingly turned to Chaos" indicates that it's *possible*, it just hasn't happened yet.

There are ~1.000.000 worlds and only 1.000 Grey Knights ( thank you Ward ), and Grey Knights were made for two things - war and resisting Chaos corruption.

Then put them on only the most-important worlds. Make them the Overlords of Segmentums. Don't even bother to tell Macragge that they have a new boss. Just drop some GKs off with a sign that says "We're in charge now." Calgar's obviously done a pretty good job running the worlds of Ultramar... maybe he can show these GK nubs how it's done. Or is the GK gene-seed insufficient for bureaucracy and governance? Why, then, was Guilliman's not?

And why sue them when you have something better - Inquisitors who can also protect their mind with their psychic powers.

If Inquisitors are so good, why spend the resources on GK?

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Grey Knights are not incorruptible.

"Each Grey Knight is an accomplished, powerful psyker whose psychic presence is anathema to creatures of the Warp. They are trained to channel their psychic energies into a halo of protective wards known as The Aegis. Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption, able to wield forbidden black magic, harness tainted artefacts and scour blasphemous tomes all without risk of being overwhelmed by the cursed power of Chaos. The Grey Knights hold a unique honour among the chapters of the Adeptus Astartes - in over ten thousand years of service, not a single one of their number has ever defected to Chaos."

Fluff disagree with you.

This is where it falls. Grey knights may be incorruptible to daemons but the knight in this story is not in front of a daemon. He is in front of the chaos god making it quite easily so that anyone could be corrupted

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
corruption takes the form of contrasting a pure spiritual form with a corrupted manifestation in the physical world

You're defining a concept by introducing another concept, the definition of which relies on the first concept. "Dark is the opposite of light because light is not light.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
corruption in terms that it is something that kills you slowly until you are no more

That's getting to a definition but seemingly not a very good one. For example, being corrupted by Nurgle means, in its extreme form, that you are extremely resistant to being killed.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
when daemons and Chaos forces "corrupt" you they mutate your body until you are unrecognizable and if they are strong enough they actually kill your personality and claim your soul

This is your best effort but the term "soul" needs some definition. And by "personality" do you mean, as I said, basically self-control?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Exactly ,Primarch had no idea about Chaos while GK are constantly to fight it.

But if they are so pure why must they fight so hard to avoid corruption? Or is there purity actually just the fact that they fight so hard in the face of their rather unremarkable vulnerability? In that case, GK are only less susceptible to Chaos inasmuch as they spend all their time fighting its influence on them. Of course, by that standard no Black Templar should ever have fallen to Chaos, either.

"Even the purest flame can be extinguished by the tide, in that single moment of doubt the wanderer was lost. He knelt, bowing his head at last.".

This quote pretty much confirms it for me, beyond the other flavor text

He faced a god and lost, Grey knight or not he was corrupted and bowed to Slannesh

It's time for people to just get over their fanboy butthurt, this is 40k, not powerrangers the good guy doesn't win at the end of the episode, the grimdark has no use for your My dude is undefetable mentality, if you can't swallow that fact there is plenty of other childhood games that will suit you better.

I for one am personally glad this occurred, this characters fluff was outta control, all this character has done is cause rage over, his poorly written fluff

 Arthas367 wrote:
"Even the purest flame can be extinguished by the tide, in that single moment of doubt the wanderer was lost. He knelt, bowing his head at last.".

This quote pretty much confirms it for me, beyond the other flavor text

He faced a god and lost, Grey knight or not he was corrupted and bowed to Slannesh

It's time for people to just get over their fanboy butthurt, this is 40k, not powerrangers the good guy doesn't win at the end of the episode, the grimdark has no use for your My dude is undefetable mentality, if you can't swallow that fact there is plenty of other childhood games that will suit you better.

I for one am personally glad this occurred, this characters fluff was outta control, all this character has done is cause rage over, his poorly written fluff

It would actually make his story a lot more interesting if true. He'd make an intriguing special character in the next Daemon codex...

Or replace Abaddon as the big cheese of Chaos Space Marines.

To me, the fact that we don't know whether it is true or false -- the fact that we don't even know if it's Draigo -- is what really makes this interesting. For example, that's what makes this thread possible.

Although, it would be novel if, like Amaya noted, you had Draigo leading the 14th Black Crusade. Novel, certianly ... but novelty is ephemeral.

In before Draigo leads 14th Black Crusade and wreaks havoc upon the Imperium only to have a change of heart and redeem himself by decimating Chaos forces in a suicidal attack.

Perhaps no grey knights had previously fallen because none came face to face with the lord of temptation, in person? Draigo stands before a literal chaos deity, in its own realm. What do you expect to happen. He can either die or be corrupted, and Slaanesh leans heavily towards corruption rather than violence.

 Amaya wrote:
only to have a change of heart and redeem himself by decimating Chaos forces in a suicidal attack.

Leading Craftworld Ulthwe as the most powerful Farseer of all time and the successor of Eldrad Ulthuan ... possibly after carving Eldrad's name on Mephiston's heart.

I was wondering how long it would be before this thread started.

As much as I hate Draigo and wish he would get lobotomized into the Daemonic equivalent of a Servitor, whoever this "knight" is, he cannot be Draigo, because Draigo's sword does not have runes etched into it (and nor does he have a sheath).

It could potentially be some other Grey Knight, but I'm doubtful, given that Grey Knights are explicitly immune to corruption and temptation (and yes, their codex does actually say that; see pages 5 and 7). Moreover, what are the odds of there being two Grey Knights wandering the warp?

On the other hand, it is worth noting that GW has gotten details and such wrong before. It is possible that Phil Kelly meant for it to be Draigo and simply described him incorrectly. However, with the Grey Knights codex asserting that they are immune to corruption and no definitive statements in the Chaos Daemons codex to the contrary (explicit statements trump implicit ones, after all), I find the idea that it was a Grey Knight that fell (Draigo or not) to be dubious at this time.

But we'll see. Hopefully future fluff will expand on this somewhat and give us a more concrete answer.

It'd be awesome to see Abaddon defeated at the end of the 13th Black Crusade (and I say that as an Abaddon fan) as long as he got a proper sendoff, then have Draigo take his place as Warmaster of Chaos. However that would require advancing things that GW just isn't going to do.

Just like the Golden Throne failing, the "warrior in baroque armor" that Trazhin has, just like the Wolf Time/End Time, just like the return of the Daemon Primarchs, just like a million other 40k mysteries and revelations, none of this will ever get answered by GW unfortunately. The only hope for these things lies in BL, and GW won't want them messing with an established gameplay piece like Draigo so drastically as making him a champion of Chaos.

It's quite simple really:

Draigo's a big fan of warp dust, and who else do you go to for the best narcotics in both reality and unreality but Slaanesh?

I mean, really, why else would he be going there in the first place?

Like so much else with 40k, it won't be answered for a very long time, if at all, so take whatever conclusion you like from it. I'd like to point out, in Draigo's fluff, he spends an awful lot of time wrecking Khorne, you know, the Chaos God diametrically opposed to Slaanesh.

 Manchu wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Imperium was basically just the Emperor's "security system" against the Chaos Gods and he has no other motive than self-preservation.

I think that's the most grimdark I've seen condensed into one sentence.

 Psienesis wrote:
The real question is...

Was it a Longsword, an Eviscerator, or just a Powerblade?

I think it might be the Pork one

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Exactly ,Primarch had no idea about Chaos while GK are constantly to fight it.

Really? They might not be aware of the Chaos Gods, but they know the affects of the Warp and that there are denizens that dwell within it. The Alpha Legion inLegion know about Chaos and even call it for what it is. They don't understand the full ramifications of it but they are fully aware of the threat that it presents.

 Harriticus wrote:

Just like the Golden Throne failing, the "warrior in baroque armor" that Trazhin has, just like the Wolf Time/End Time, just like the return of the Daemon Primarchs, just like a million other 40k mysteries and revelations, none of this will ever get answered by GW unfortunately. The only hope for these things lies in BL, and GW won't want them messing with an established gameplay piece like Draigo so drastically as making him a champion of Chaos.

That these things are left as mysteries is a good thing.

Obviously it was left ambiguous for that reason. But I really feel that Kelly put it in as a tongue-in-cheek joke to the knowledgeable fanbase. An 11-12 year old kid may not make the connection (at least, not right away), but surely everyone who's played against Draigo or rolled their eyes to his several pages of fluff will immediately think about him kneeling before Slaanesh's meatsword and grin. C'mon, it's pretty funny. lol.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
It is, because Emperor cannot be corrupted by any means and Grey Knights carry his geen-seed.

Conjecture.

I did and it says that he is doing psychic battle with the blade at all times, indicating that he is still battling him even when his Aegis is down. And that is why Grey Knights are incorruptible - because with the Aegis they have very strong psychic shield that they create from their own psychic power. The only way for Chaos to corrupt them is to offer them prices if they do - like they did to certain Primarchs to corrupt them. And sice Grey Knights live only for two things - war against Chaos and Emperor, we will never see Grey Knight falling to Chaos mentally.

It also says he carries it because he is the "most incorruptible dude out of the most incorruptible dudes from a group of already incorruptible dudes". Once you apply a gradient to something that is absolute, it is no longer absolute.

Now give me a proff of Grey Knight falling to Chaos.
This "mysterious knight" cannot possibly be Draigo, Kelly is not that stupid to wreck some of the basic 40k lore.

Draigo is far from "basic 40K lore", he is one of the setting's most egregious mistakes.

Actually, I think it is a marine of one of the 'Knight' chapters, like the Knights of Blood (although those would be Khornate ).

 pretre wrote:
@BCA: That simply indicates that none have fallen yet.

"making him immune to corruption"

Would this not mean that they would be immune to corruption and therefore, never be corrupted?

Iranna.

It's Draigo, and in the next GK dex when you face an army with a daemon in it he might randomly join your army. When he takes a wound you roll on a random chart to see what slaaneshi power he gains.

 Goat wrote:
It's Draigo, and in the next GK dex when you face an army with a daemon in it he might randomly join your army. When he takes a wound you roll on a random chart to see what slaaneshi power he gains.

If Draigo joins your Daemon army, roll a D6 and consult the following chart:

1 - Lol, jk, Draigo rejoins the GKs.
2 - You get a free Land Raider in your army.
3 - Randomly pick a model in your army and give him a meltagun.
4 - Siesta! Everyone falls asleep for an entire game turn.
5 - You get a free cookie! To redeem, show this chart and your roll to the nearest store that sells cookies*.
6 - You win the game, the game after the game after this game, and the game you'll play 5 years to this day 17 months ago.

*Only redeemable at Games Workshop stores. One redemption gets you a free** Finecookie™.
**£25.99

 Psienesis wrote:

If Inquisitors are so good, why spend the resources on GK?

If Imperial Guard is so good, why spent the resources on SM?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Omegus wrote:

Draigo is far from "basic 40K lore", he is one of the setting's most egregious mistakes.

I didn't meant Draigo - I meant Grey Knight falling to temptation to Chaos.

My guess is Kelly saw what an abomination Draigo is from fluff perspective, and threw the fanbase a bone with this little tidbit that wouldn't get noticed by GW or ruffle feathers even if it did.

I don't have the codex in front of me but I do think it flat out says GKs are incorruptible. Especially Purifiers who are incorrupltible x2.

It was like a minor retcon. Before the last 'dex a GK had never fallen because of the way they live their lives. The sacrifices they make and the strength of their character.
Then in the new codex they're incorrupltible...just cuz they are dude.

Ok I have just read the story and that is definitely not Draigo nor Grey Knight. It sounds like he was Space Marine Captain, probably from Knights of Blood as noobbomb have said ( silver armor after all, Grey Knight armor is not silver ).

It's pretty silver. So the description is a silver knight wandering the warp? I can see why some suspect Mr. Draigo.

Am I blind now? It is silver.

It has been descibed as both steel grey and silver grey.

I can see how someone would call that "silver".

The story goes like this:

-Slaanesh remember many things but the most notable thing he remembers is wandering Adeptus Astartes knight who entered his realm. ( out of all things in existence Slaanesh remembers this most notably ).

-The knight first go trough garden full of genstones and gold coins. He ignores them and go away.

-Next the knight enter a garden full of lakes of vine and a giants that form a bridges with their fans. There he could see many mortals drinking in banquet. He is disgusted to see that they drink even when their insides are already full of vine and food, he continues...

-Next he enters a garden of 'sexual pleasure' ( garden full of hot babes ), there he allowed himself to experience sexual pleasure as he close his eyes and gives up to the temptation while Daemonetes talk to his ear to give up fully for more pleasure that he ca ever dream off, he regain himself shortly after and kill all daemonettes around himself. He continues... Here it is stated that he is "stroking in silver armor"

-Next he enters new garden adn find himself on a balcony, from there in front of him stood Space Marine army so wast that you cannot count it ( Legion? ) calling for him to lead them into conquest. On the other two balconies around him stood various planetary Governors and even High Lords of Terra, praising him for his deeds and asking them to give a speech. He then saw a ruler of his own planet before he became Adeptus Astartes, he get close to him and look into his eyes, in them he only saw what Imperium today is - "eternal nagging paranoia, gnawing suspicion and hidden doubts that were acid to the soul" ( actual quote ), He then 'sadly" ( actual quite ) shake his head and go on...

-Next he goes trough a garden where he see himself battling daemons, he is presented like "shinning saint with his face serene adn his sword bloodied after battle with red-skinned Daemons" ( actual quote ). Here he "turn away, troubled" ( actual quote ). Next he see people getting tortured ( figures staring intently into mirror pools of their own, each held immobile by the undergrowth as whispering thorns insinuated themselves into their flesh ) and he then "turns his mind to the humility of the cell he once called home" ( actual quote )and left.

-Finally, after his body was exhausted and calling for rest he arrives before Slaanesh who took form of "young men possessing androgynous beauty - clean limbed and fresh with the vigor of youth" ( actual quote ), the knight raised his sword and tries to strike him but "the god-prince was disarming in his innocence and utterly beguiling in his manner" ( actual quote ), it was then when the knight knelled before Slaanesh and swore loyalty to him. Grey Knights falling before innocence? Not being able to kill innocent looking person? Good try Kelly....

One more thing: there is also a picture of the knight, seen fro ma distance as he stood before Slaanesh domain. Few things here:
-If it was not stated so I would never call him Adeptus Astartes, he looks more like planetary Governor, Rough Trader or Inquisitor then a Space Marine.
-This picture proves that this is not Draigo as he is probably wearing ordinary power armor ( Draigo is wearing Terminator armor ) as his head is above his shoulders.
-He is wearing robes, witch besides captains and Dark Angels very little Chapters carry.

All in all - this is definitely not Draigo or Grey Knight for this matter. Aldo Kelly trolled us epically with "wandering knight", "pleasures forbidden in his order" and "silver armor".

It should be noted that there's a piece of artwork of the palace of Slaanesh next to this story. Upon closer inspection I notice that the "wandering knight" is in it.

It's a very difficult to make anything out except:
1.) The guy is silver
2.) He has a long dark cloak that drags behind him
3.) He doesn't have any of Draigo's fancy decorations like banners
4.) He has a helmet on
5.) He has a power sword
6.) It's very difficult to make the symbol out on his shoulder. It may be some kind of square with a cross-like thing in the middle. Again very hard to tell.

I have the ipad version so can't save/upload the pic or anything.

I would say the comment about "the cell he once called home" is actually another compelling piece of evidence in favor of it being at least a Grey Knight. As a lengthy portion of their indoctrination takes place in a darkened cell.

@Harriticius:

There is also the part about GK in the deamon codex a few pages further. Which states: ''...strong enough to resist the temptations of Chaos. Incorruptible, the Grey Knights....''. The idea of a fallen GK is interesting but even the codex itself seems to disprove the GK theory a few pages further up. They could have just reworded it into, as far as it its know, no single GK has fallen. But they didnt pick those words.

 Eldarain wrote:
I would say the comment about "the cell he once called home" is actually another compelling piece of evidence in favor of it being at least a Grey Knight. As a lengthy portion of their indoctrination takes place in a darkened cell.

Yeah, that too.
As I said there are many references to Grey Knights here, but the fact how he reacted to various temptations proves that he is one one of them.

At least he is not Draigo for sure, other than that I think this was Kelly's intention from the start. He want us to bust our heads into figuring out who is this lone Astartes.
My best bet is still either Silver Skulls captain or Knights of Blood captain.

That picture is far too obscure to make much definite conclusions. The thing that looks to be head might as well be the arch that goes over their head in GK terminator armours.

I confirmed the paragraph taht Disciple of Fate refereed to, a secton for Grey knights on page 24 of Chaos Daemons codex. They are indeed incorruptible as the sentence says: "All Grey Knights are psykers who have passed the most rigorous tests and training regimes, ensuring they are both the most elite of warriors and also strong enough to resist the temptations of Chaos. Incorruptible, the Grey Knight scour the galaxy for their daemonic nemesis, a line of shining steel protecting Mankind from darkness of the Warp."

It is said even in Chaos own codex that they are incorruptible, there is nothing more to discuss here. That wandering knight is not Grey Knight - Kelly said it himself in that small paragraph.

 Crimson wrote:
That picture is far too obscure to make much definite conclusions. The thing that looks to be head might as well be the arch that goes over their head in GK terminator armours.

I zoomed in on my ipad. Can see it a lot better then there, but still too obscure to make anything definite yes...

How can Slaanesh remember anything when s/he exists outside linear time as we understand it?

 Amaya wrote:
How can Slaanesh remember anything when s/he exists outside linear time as we understand it?

You could use the same argument for Tzeentch's schemes. Its a bit of a hole in the background, but its Chaos, so who knows how it works. Maybe s/he updates here calender with the help of cultists in the materium

That's it - end of imperium is coming, bloody Wolftime - no one can save them from that kind of force....

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
I confirmed the paragraph taht Disciple of Fate refereed to, a secton for Grey knights on page 24 of Chaos Daemons codex. They are indeed incorruptible as the sentence says: "All Grey Knights are psykers who have passed the most rigorous tests and training regimes, ensuring they are both the most elite of warriors and also strong enough to resist the temptations of Chaos. Incorruptible, the Grey Knight scour the galaxy for their daemonic nemesis, a line of shining steel protecting Mankind from darkness of the Warp."

It is said even in Chaos own codex that they are incorruptible, there is nothing more to discuss here. That wandering knight is not Grey Knight - Kelly said it himself in that small paragraph.

Watching people tear apart language and imagery to get at the "truth" of a fictional universe that has been clearly presented in as evocative a manner as possible, with all the compassion and understanding of a RAW vs RAI rules argument, makes the writer in me cry.

 Eldarain wrote:
I would say the comment about "the cell he once called home" is actually another compelling piece of evidence in favor of it being at least a Grey Knight. As a lengthy portion of their indoctrination takes place in a darkened cell.

Actually all space marines live in cells, it's the whole monastic thing (since space marines are "warrior monks" fluff-wise). But yes, the premise that it might be draigo is hilarious.

 Amaya wrote:
How can Slaanesh remember anything when s/he exists outside linear time as we understand it?

How could s/he not remember everything existing like that? He remembers his own birth.

How can you remember something that you are constantly experiencing?

 Amaya wrote:
How can you remember something that you are constantly experiencing?

For a god, it is possible. Your feeble mortal mind just can't grasp it.

If you exist at all times then memory is pointless.

It would be better to say that it is impossible for someone who exists in linear time can not grasp nonlinear existence.

Wait wait wait so The gk fanboys defense has become it can't possibly be Draigo because the guy in the picture has silver armor, cloak, and a helmet....have you guys ever even owned a Draigo model?? Last I checked he posses all of those things.

Their argument has now fallen on that grey knight armor is grey silver not silver silver, IT CANT BE HIM!!! LOL what a joke fanboys are

Or the argument that new fluff overrules old fluff correct? Daemonhunter fluff < GK fluff ? But o wait what's after that.... < Daemon fluff, though I'm guessing most people who actually remember when their was codex Daemonhunters are the ones not agreeing with this fanboy ignorance, and remember a time when gw made ambiguous fluff and not herp Derp Derp my army is invincible fluff you couldn't possibly do anything makes is lose

 Amaya wrote:
How can you remember something that you are constantly experiencing?

Once again, how can you not? Are you not aware of what you're doing right now?

BAH! I'm not a big fan of the Grey Knights, but the Grey Knights codex states that Draigo endures, and until something explicitly states otherwise, then he endures.

 Arthas367 wrote:
Wait wait wait so The gk fanboys defense has become it can't possibly be Draigo because the guy in the picture has silver armor, cloak, and a helmet....have you guys ever even owned a Draigo model?? Last I checked he posses all of those things.

Their argument has now fallen on that grey knight armor is grey silver not silver silver, IT CANT BE HIM!!! LOL what a joke fanboys are

Or the argument that new fluff overrules old fluff correct? Daemonhunter fluff < GK fluff ? But o wait what's after that.... < Daemon fluff, though I'm guessing most people who actually remember when their was codex Daemonhunters are the ones not agreeing with this fanboy ignorance, and remember a time when gw made ambiguous fluff and not herp Derp Derp my army is invincible fluff you couldn't possibly do anything makes is lose

At least the Grey Knight fb give links to fluff to prove their own statements while other people who cannot accept that they are wrong just call them fanboys and blind to the truth when in fact they cannot accept that they are wrong and blame others in any way possible. I still didn't read anywhere that Grey Knight has fallen to Chaos, it is written in both GK and now CD codex that they cannot fall to Chaos. Now can you 'reasonable people' show me a fluff proof that tells us otherwise?

Didn't think so....

From the pic we can see a psychic hood/aegis, a cloak and a big ass sword, the hood matches the style of grey knights, but also matches the style of the dv liby, the cloak doesn't look like draigos but it's possible, the sword is big enough, where is the storm shield?

Some of the first DA were knights, right?

 Formosa wrote:
From the pic we can see a psychic hood/aegis, a cloak and a big ass sword, the hood matches the style of grey knights, but also matches the style of the dv liby, the cloak doesn't look like draigos but it's possible, the sword is big enough, where is the storm shield?

For aslong as he's been in their its quite possible it was destroyed/lost as the same happened to his sword.

As far BCA is concerned your correct no GK had fallen until about 3 days or so ago, don't think gw is going to bother rewriting a 2 year old dex to reflect an ambiguous story about a mostly unused character as of 6th. But I can most definitely give page numbers from the actual Daemonhunters book showing that there's nothing more than faith and will that protects them from the preditations of the warp (and helpinghands from various items, etc.)

The only "evidence" you have provided is rereading excerpts that have been explicitly made ambiguous, so what point or argument are you making besides this says here I'm right your wrong, while you hold your hands infront of your eyes to everything everyone has said or proved?
Your only argument stands that the book says they can't so that must be true, my book also tells me Maugan Ra stopped a tyranid invasion single handedly, and that Imperial Inquisitors are wouldn't dare act up inside our black library for fear of reprisal .

Your cement is nowhere near concrete yet, your going to have to give us more than grey silver doesn't equal silver, upon first glance and further inspection the majority of our community believes it to be Draigo, all signs point to him, find real proof such as a description of iconography , chapter markings, anything that without shadow of a doubt proves it to not be a GK, namely the one who's been wandering the warp
.

And if you can't then you haven't swayed anyone, and the vocal majority will make it Draigo, whether your fanboyism allows you to recognize it or not, so find a new point besides codex say it can't happen because as of now it did,

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Some of the first DA were knights, right?

Dark Angels are knights, albeit rather sinister ones.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Some of the first DA were knights, right?

Dark Angels are knights, albeit rather sinister ones.

Somewhat OT, but those models are beast magnetize them for best effect, I always got the feel that Dark Angels were a mix of Monastic order/ Dark ages European/ with a touch of Spanish inquisition

From all the examination of the picture there is one detail I didn't see anyone mention, that isn't Terminator Armour, the proportions of it fit power armour, but not terminator.

Also as to the Changelings story, it supports the statement that no Grey Knight has ever fallen to Chaos, the seed he planted may one day result in Brother Brutus falling, but so far all available direct data says no GK has ever fallen.

Actually crash it does have the proportions of termy armour from other artwork, go look at the termies in the background of azraels artwork, the aegis on the deamon artwork also matches gk imagery, sorry bud but your wrong on this.

I do agree it's not.draigo though, I just think your reasoning is incorrect as you have not seen the artwork from other books maybe.

 Arthas367 wrote:

As far BCA is concerned your correct no GK had fallen until about 3 days or so ago, don't think gw is going to bother rewriting a 2 year old dex to reflect an ambiguous story about a mostly unused character as of 6th. But I can most definitely give page numbers from the actual Daemonhunters book showing that there's nothing more than faith and will that protects them from the preditations of the warp (and helpinghands from various items, etc.)
The only "evidence" you have provided is rereading excerpts that have been explicitly made ambiguous, so what point or argument are you making besides this says here I'm right your wrong, while you hold your hands infront of your eyes to everything everyone has said or proved?
Your only argument stands that the book says they can't so that must be true, my book also tells me Maugan Ra stopped a tyranid invasion single handedly, and that Imperial Inquisitors are wouldn't dare act up inside our black library for fear of reprisal.
Your cement is nowhere near concrete yet, your going to have to give us more than grey silver doesn't equal silver, upon first glance and further inspection the majority of our community believes it to be Draigo, all signs point to him, find real proof such as a description of iconography , chapter markings, anything that without shadow of a doubt proves it to not be a GK, namely the one who's been wandering the warp.
And if you can't then you haven't swayed anyone, and the vocal majority will make it Draigo, whether your fanboyism allows you to recognize it or not, so find a new point besides codex say it can't happen because as of now it did.

LOL, what's with all the wish to corrupt the stell blue armor guys? Nevermind...
A real proof you say? What about entry for Grey Knights in the same codex just few pages later? The one you didn't bother to read even if I typed it like a page before...

You can clearly see that it is written "incorruptible" in Daemon's own codex, there is nothing more to discuss here.
Now please stop trolling.

Hahaha...you got them there, Captain.

No he hasn't, that bit of fluff isn't written from the gk perspective, therefore it's an opinion of the in universe narrator.

Grey knights are 100% not incorruptible, there own book shows us this with the blood tide, if.they were totally incorruptible, why murder the sisters, also all the gk books would suck as there is no moral dilemma.

I still agree that pic isn't draigo though.

 Formosa wrote:
No he hasn't, that bit of fluff isn't written from the gk perspective, therefore it's an opinion of the in universe narrator.

Who is also the one writing 40k fluff and thus establish official canon so your point is invalid.

Grey knights are 100% not incorruptible, there own book shows us this with the blood tide, if.they were totally incorruptible, why murder the sisters, also all the gk books would suck as there is no moral dilemma.

This was covered ages ago, Bloodtide is a machine from Dark Age of Technology that makes you blood boil and you literally drown in your own blood. The machine was discovered and used by Chaos, twice. First time it was repelled by Raven Guard and second time it was Grey Knights. Grey Kngihts knew that they will not be protected as they probably had reports that machine is able to boil even resistant Astartes blood. So they killed Sistes in hope that their losses will not be great and that they will get to the machine in time. What happened is that didn't;t work and they suffered high casualties before they were able to shut it down and destroy it for good ( it is stated in daemon codex that they suffered high losses ).
What happened is superstition, GK killed Sisters and bathe in their blood in hope that will protect them for good. Unfortunately while that protection is good against Chaos it does almost nothing to technology and as a result they suffered heavy casualties themselves. So Sisters died for nothing, cute Grimdark.

And I think that Lynatta said that everything written count as a fluff and it is valid, GW writers said that themselves. So if this paragraph from the official, newest codex says that then it must be true - until rewritten in the future.

Statements that say "it is not true" just because it destroys your dreams of corrupted GK is quite immature and should be ignored.

In the Grey Knights omnibus, Justicar Alaric spends a lot of time worrying about whether he could be the first grey knight to fall.

If it wasn't possible, he wouldn't have been worried.

All the fluff I've seen makes me think none of them have fallen yet, but that it is possible. If they couldn't fail, they'd be awful to write for.

PredaKhaine wrote:
In the Grey Knights omnibus, Justicar Alaric spends a lot of time worrying about whether he could be the first grey knight to fall.

If it wasn't possible, he wouldn't have been worried.

All the fluff I've seen makes me think none of them have fallen yet, but that it is possible. If they couldn't fail, they'd be awful to write for.

Yeah, except he just goes mad rather than be corrupted. And remember this: "Thras'kleya'thall'gryaa'akthe'landra..."

Yep, he doesn't fall in that book. He does worry about it though.

Ghargatuloth's true name wasn't it? I swear that name took up most of the book

PredaKhaine wrote:
In the Grey Knights omnibus, Justicar Alaric spends a lot of time worrying about whether he could be the first grey knight to fall.

He was worried because he let the daemon invade his mind just so that he could read his, learn daemon's real name and banish him by using it.
It is possible to became corrupted if you willingly give yourself to the corruption, with grey Knights that is almost impossible giving how they are trained to resist every kind of emotion and pleasure that would bind them to ordinary men. Chaos simply has nothing to offer them to corrupt them and that is why they are incorruptible.

At least that is true for their mind and soul, as for their bodies it's totally different story.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
In the Grey Knights omnibus, Justicar Alaric spends a lot of time worrying about whether he could be the first grey knight to fall.

He was worried because he let the daemon invade his mind just so that he could read his, learn daemon's real name and banish him by using it.
It is possible to became corrupted if you willingly give yourself to the corruption, with grey Knights that is almost impossible giving how they are trained to resist every kind of emotion and pleasure that would bind them to ordinary men. Chaos simply has nothing to offer them to corrupt them and that is why they are incorruptible.

At least that is true for their mind and soul, as for their bodies it's totally different story.

In general,I see it as no Grey Knights have fallen as they are vigilant against chaos in all it's forms. If they couldn't be corrupted (as in not possible), then why worry?

Hold up folks! It wasn't Ghargatuloth who invaded his mind, and it's True Name was uncovered by that female Inquisitor who sadly got corrupted in the process. Only Alaric proved willing to take the risk and trust her ravings enough to gamble that said ravings were actually Ghargatuloth's True Name (really long apparently, I just gave the first few syllables which were all that were given by the author). The one who invaded his mind and drove him insane was that small-fry Daemon in the third novel. I especially loves this part:

Tzeentch: Raezazel. You promised me souls. You promised me the faithful. You have failed me.

The fact that old man Tzeentch is so calm while saying this makes it all the more amusing...except for Raezazel of course

PredaKhaine wrote:

In general,I see it as no Grey Knights have fallen as they are vigilant against chaos in all it's forms. If they couldn't be corrupted (as in not possible), then why worry?

He doesn't need to worry, he just does. He's quite young (for an Astartes/Grey Knight), remember? That youth and relative inexperience is why the Grand Masters don't want to make him a Brother-Captain yet despite his talents.

Captain: pot calling.kettle what?

Deathwing terminators are the best terminators in the galaxy.

Gk terminators are the best in the galaxy.

We know gk ones are infact the best, the in universe narrator does not, he does not know gk exist, so from his perspective he is correct.

That fluff snippet is exactly the same, the in universe narrator says gk are incorruptible, we know this is not the case, they can be corrupted, but non have thus far, but as far as he knows they cannot.

Also captain, calling someone immature to try and back your argument.. Well I will leave that with you.

That's the point Incorruptable is used more figuratively, but apparently I'm trolling when theirs specific instances of them worrying about corruption, I noted the sisters incident in my first post

BCA do you have any sort of proof to back up the bloodtide being a machine and not Daemonic reality warping? Because if memory recalls their is a apocolypse formation of old called the Khorne maelstrom of gore which matches this description, and all the talk about it being one and the same as the Dark Age of technogly machine it shares a name with is purely conjecture.

Existence of Purifiers in undeniable proof against the incorruptabilty of Grey Knights. If they all would be utterly incorruptable, it would be impossible for select few among them to be even more incorruptable.

 Arthas367 wrote:

BCA do you have any sort of proof to back up the bloodtide being a machine and not Daemonic reality warping? Because if memory recalls their is a apocolypse formation of old called the Khorne maelstrom of gore which matches this description, and all the talk about it being one and the same as the Dark Age of technogly machine it shares a name with is purely conjecture.

I read the original novel, but to make story short you can read it here.
Off course the Lexicanum is wrong here on one accaunt - the Battle Sisters that Grey Knight killed were not corrupted, it was written that their blood was pure and thus not corrupted.

I call nonsense on the idea that GK are incorruptible. The codex, like all codexs, is written from the point of view of the faction. GK are perfect, Chaos is the only true force and all will fall to it, Eldar are just better than the other weak races, Tau are the one true hope for the world (and don't at all have a bad side. Honest).

The only one without bias is Orks, but only they agree with everyone else that Orks love fighting and that is all they want.

Personaly I think it MIGHT be Draigo. It may not be, but I think there is a good chance it is. It is definitely not a DA, because what kind of story would that be? Mysterious DA falls to chaos (See DA codex and The Fall for full details). I doubt very much it is one of the minor chapters. Again, not realy much of a story.

What points to being Draigo the most to me is the fact that the story is written.

Space Marine falls to chaos. That is a Dog bites Man story.
Draigo falls to chaos. That is a Man bites Dog story.

There is nothing stoping Draigo falling to chaos appart from some GK fluff saying they are incorruptible, yet how can some GKs be more incorruptible than others? The fluff says that incorruptible is not strictly true.

 Crimson wrote:
Existence of Purifiers in undeniable proof against the incorruptabilty of Grey Knights. If they all would be utterly incorruptable, it would be impossible for select few among them to be even more incorruptable.

Purifiers are not literally more corruptible. Just mentally stronger/dedicated to keep whatever it is in that haunted mountain of theirs chained. I bet it's Horus

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Existence of Purifiers in undeniable proof against the incorruptabilty of Grey Knights. If they all would be utterly incorruptable, it would be impossible for select few among them to be even more incorruptable.

Purifiers are not literally more corruptible. Just mentally stronger/dedicated to keep whatever it is in that haunted mountain of theirs chained. I bet it's Horus

Oooooooh I like that idea, lorgar would be better though right?

"Rather, Purifies recruit only from those amongst their Battle-Brothers whose souls are considered to be utterly incorruptible and resistant to the the temptations of the warp – even by the exacting standards of the Grey Knights."

This makes only sense if all of their Battle-Brothers are, in fact, not incorruptible. Further more, note the use of word 'considered'; this is just what the Purifiers think, it is not certain that even they are actually incorruptible.

 Crimson wrote:
"Rather, Purifies recruit only from those amongst their Battle-Brothers whose souls are considered to be utterly incorruptible and resistant to the the temptations of the warp – even by the exacting standards of the Grey Knights."

This makes only sense if all of their Battle-Brothers are, in fact, not incorruptible. Further more, note the use of word 'considered'; this is just what the Purifiers think, it is not certain that even they are actually incorruptible.

Or their incorruptibility has reached the point it becomes a weapon in itself.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Or their incorruptibility has reached the point it becomes a weapon in itself.

...

I am sure that there is some point of view from which that sentence made sense, but I'm not seeing it.

 Crimson wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Or their incorruptibility has reached the point it becomes a weapon in itself.

...

I am sure that there is some point of view from which that sentence made sense, but I'm not seeing it.

Their incorruptibility becomes a battle aura of sorts (shrugs).

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Existence of Purifiers in undeniable proof against the incorruptabilty of Grey Knights. If they all would be utterly incorruptable, it would be impossible for select few among them to be even more incorruptable.

Purifiers are not literally more corruptible. Just mentally stronger/dedicated to keep whatever it is in that haunted mountain of theirs chained. I bet it's Horus

The Purifiers and Draigo went in the tattoo business together and they're just waiting for him to come back and carve stuff into people's oragns, however their next customer has been waiting so long that he's had to be chained down and guarded, and each day is a little bit more mentally taxing for the Purifiers than the last.

This is a pointless discussion. Only characters/things which could not be warp corrupted are C'tans and Necrons, who are just dead, and 'Nids. Rest of species are wholly corruptible, except for the inner resistance of orks. The Emperor is already corrupt (c'mon, you know it!), and humans and eldar can be corrupt, just everybody.

So whatever you pick off existing fluff, truth is that even a GK legendary master can be corrupted. Dammit, look at primarchs...

Nid's can be corrupted too.

One of the space wolf books has them going up against nurgled tyranids.

Nids have no connection to the warp so therefore can't be corrupted

Jayo'r wrote:
Nids have no connection to the warp so therefore can't be corrupted

I don't know about mentalyl, but I can certainly see it possible for a Tyranid to be physically corrupted by Nurgle, and as a result have it's behavious possibly modified somewhat.

What could happen is that 'nids ate some nurgle (hey, A+ at recycling) and incorpored it someways.

Jayo'r wrote:
Nids have no connection to the warp so therefore can't be corrupted

They can and have, the hive mind responds by cutting the hive off from the rest and letting it die off. Falling to chaos is different though, they can be corrupted by it but they cannot fall to it.

DOGGED wrote:
What could happen is that 'nids ate some nurgle (hey, A+ at recycling) and incorpored it someways.

I wouldn't think it would be possibly 'incorporated' as it is more an active infection, the Nid that ate it would probably end up sprouting warps/lumps/fungus stuff, and be prevented from entering the digestion pools by the other, non-corrupted Tyranids. Even if it could be absorbed, nothing would really come of it I'd think, what isn't weird un-eatable daemon bits is just swollen Tyranid if you think about it.

But, the nature of Tyranid corruption is a topic for another thread, so I'll leave it at that.

 Crimson wrote:
"Rather, Purifies recruit only from those amongst their Battle-Brothers whose souls are considered to be utterly incorruptible and resistant to the the temptations of the warp – even by the exacting standards of the Grey Knights."

This makes only sense if all of their Battle-Brothers are, in fact, not incorruptible. Further more, note the use of word 'considered'; this is just what the Purifiers think, it is not certain that even they are actually incorruptible.

No, Grey Knights are incorruptable whereas Purifiers are incorruptible x2. It is proof of nothing more than how badly written the GK codex is.

You don't need a soul to be corrupted by Chaos. Even automatons and machines can be corrupted by Chaos.

Delicious!

I must say I enjoyed that story.

Good bye Draigo. We hardly knew ya.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
You can clearly see that it is written "incorruptible" in Daemon's own codex, there is nothing more to discuss here.

Then why'd they need to kill a bunch of Sisters to stop being corrupted by the Blood Tide?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Then why'd they need to kill a bunch of Sisters to stop being corrupted by the Blood Tide?

For what must be the umpteenth time:

Because they're not immune to having their brains fried by Chaos, they're just not going to willingly turn to serve the Chaos Gods.

Ya huh. And Draigo is just an allegory for mankind's struggle with Chaos. Sure.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ya huh. And Draigo is just an allegory for mankind's struggle with Chaos. Sure.

Good to see you're making a coherent and well-designed argument. That makes me happy.



Back on topic: The fact that the Daemons Codex in multiple places states that Grey Knights are incorruptible/haven't ever fallen should be enough to dismiss the theory that the Wanderer is Draigo. Could a Grey Knight fall? Absolutely. The fact that the Daemon Codex says they haven't yet should be enough.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Excellent, now give me a proof from fluff that Emperor can be corrupted.

Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned, page 185.
Even the Golden Throne cannot keep the cells of the Emperor's dead body alive forever. Over the millennia the link between his soul and body has become increasingly tenuous. Worse of all, the Powers of Chaos have begun to infiltrate his mind, sowing seeds of doubt, dissolution and fear.
It is impossible to say for how long the Emperor can survive in this condition. It is unlikely that even he really knows how much time is left to him before the tenuous hold upon his physical body is broken by weakness or finally rent apart by insanity.

Kisses.

Sounds like GW is hopefully gonna kill off the emperor soon so

 Crimson wrote:
"Rather, Purifies recruit only from those amongst their Battle-Brothers whose souls are considered to be utterly incorruptible and resistant to the the temptations of the warp – even by the exacting standards of the Grey Knights."

This makes only sense if all of their Battle-Brothers are, in fact, not incorruptible. Further more, note the use of word 'considered'; this is just what the Purifiers think, it is not certain that even they are actually incorruptible.

Actually, it makes sense if the Grey Knights don't just assume that they can't possibly be corrupted, since that portrays an in-universe point of view whereas the "incorruptible" nature of Grey Knights has been referenced in multiple books from a narrator style point of view (sure, the narrator can still be biased, but to actually say that they're incorruptible in Daemons Codex rather than just no Grey Knight having ever been turned to Chaos suggests that it is indeed the case).

It could also possibly refer to the brute force corruption and insanity that Chaos can inflict, as opposed to actually falling. Corruption has multiple definitions, and we can't be sure if Ward was only using one of them (and, indeed, which one, especially since corruption in 40K generally refers to the Warp or Chaos). The Purifiers might be even stronger of will than most Grey Knights and as such able to resist worse horrors\Psychic shennanigans\blunt mind control.

 Serevor wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Excellent, now give me a proof from fluff that Emperor can be corrupted.

Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned, page 185.
Even the Golden Throne cannot keep the cells of the Emperor's dead body alive forever. Over the millennia the link between his soul and body has become increasingly tenuous. Worse of all, the Powers of Chaos have begun to infiltrate his mind, sowing seeds of doubt, dissolution and fear.
It is impossible to say for how long the Emperor can survive in this condition. It is unlikely that even he really knows how much time is left to him before the tenuous hold upon his physical body is broken by weakness or finally rent apart by insanity.

Kisses.

Great work. This source invalidates anything and all Matt Ward can come with. So: Emperor can be corrupted (in fact IS being corrupted) - GK can be corrupted - Draigo can be corrupted. C'mon, don't you see the evidence? He's the new Slaaneshi DRAiGo QUEEN! (no offense meant for any drag queen up there)

What if Grey Knights become so incorruptible that they become easily corruptible?

 Amaya wrote:
What if Grey Knights become so incorruptible that they become easily corruptible?

That is the day Tzeentch gets blown apart by Lord Castellan Ursarker E. Creed.

 Serevor wrote:

Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned, page 185.
Even the Golden Throne cannot keep the cells of the Emperor's dead body alive forever. Over the millennia the link between his soul and body has become increasingly tenuous. Worse of all, the Powers of Chaos have begun to infiltrate his mind, sowing seeds of doubt, dissolution and fear.
It is impossible to say for how long the Emperor can survive in this condition. It is unlikely that even he really knows how much time is left to him before the tenuous hold upon his physical body is broken by weakness or finally rent apart by insanity.

Kisses.

This doesn't men that they can corrupt him, only that they can influence him like they influence his sons ( showing him visions, telling him about future etc... ). Not to mention this goes against 6'th edition fluff...

The two have nothing to do with each other. That just shows Draigo is more incorruptable than the Emperor. Draigo is just better than the Emperor.

I hope it is Draigo. To hell with that guy. The lore where he attacked Mortarion makes me want to vomit.

Also this bit of writing is great if only for how upset some GK fanboys are getting

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Serevor wrote:

Realm of Chaos - The Lost and the Damned, page 185.
Even the Golden Throne cannot keep the cells of the Emperor's dead body alive forever. Over the millennia the link between his soul and body has become increasingly tenuous. Worse of all, the Powers of Chaos have begun to infiltrate his mind, sowing seeds of doubt, dissolution and fear.
It is impossible to say for how long the Emperor can survive in this condition. It is unlikely that even he really knows how much time is left to him before the tenuous hold upon his physical body is broken by weakness or finally rent apart by insanity.

Kisses.

This doesn't men that they can corrupt him, only that they can influence him like they influence his sons ( showing him visions, telling him about future etc... ). Not to mention this goes against 6'th edition fluff...

You surely wish. Yet, 6th ed fluff isn't even talking about the state of the emperor that closely. And to be fair, even with all the other editions, that's the closest you'll get. Never been retconed, still 100% canon.
Then, on the corruption, it all depends on the definition you give to "corrupt". The infiltration of the Powers of Chaos in his mind feels like corruption to me.

TBH couldn't it just be a Space Wolf? There's loads of them in the Eye of Terror, couldn't some of the 13th company have made it into the Warp proper? Suppose it's Leman Russ? Didn't he have grey armour?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
TBH couldn't it just be a Space Wolf? There's loads of them in the Eye of Terror, couldn't some of the 13th company have made it into the Warp proper? Suppose it's Leman Russ? Didn't he have grey armour?

He will pay for what Kelly did to the Wolves! By the book Kelly wrote for the Daemons, ofcourse..

Draigo now needs to seek out Fulgrim and slay him to become Slaanesh' greatest champion (well besides a few Keeper of Secrets anyway).

if you have a choice you can be corrupted - but really i think is sigmar

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Good to see you're making a coherent and well-designed argument. That makes me happy.

But I'm not making a coherent and well-designed argument. I'm not even trying to.

I'm just sitting back and watching a bunch of people fall over one another as they try to 'prove' that it's not Draigo, even though it can't really be proven either way because it implies it but gives no specifics.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Was it 'little does he know he's already fallen' or 'he's already fallen' or 'he will fall into this trap'???

More like "he meets Slaanesh face to face, can't bring himself to stab the pretty thing, kneels instead and lets Slaanesh knight him"

I don't think I want to get on my knees in front of Slaanesh......

Pretty sure Slaanesh can violate you in an infinite number of ways from an infinite distance. Kneeling down just means you accept it.

you never know, Draigo could have kneeled only to get Slaanesh close...
I have faith in Draigo, damn...

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I dunno those gods are pretty cocky pricks,
He prob walked up to him all like, "yeah thats right, bow to me!"

and draigo is all like, "just a little closer...."

 Eldarain wrote:
I would say the comment about "the cell he once called home" is actually another compelling piece of evidence in favor of it being at least a Grey Knight. As a lengthy portion of their indoctrination takes place in a darkened cell.

I was going to stay out of this thread, but this statement had to be replied to.

The majority of the Codex Astartes adherent Chapters utilize "cells" for their members. It is supposed to be reflective of the monastic lifestyle that they are expected to live as "warrior-monks". The Grey Knights are not the only ones who do this. The Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Black Templars, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, et al have "cells" for their members at their various fortress monasteries/keeps.

IMO, its either Draigo or Fulgrim...

Paraphrasing the 4th edition Chaos Daemons Codex
It is impossible for mortals to look upon the god without instantly losing their soul, for all who see it become willing slaves to every whim of the Dark Prince

If it was draigo it's an argument between Uncorruptable Vs. Auto-Corrupt

Specific vs general....RAW RAW RAW, hahaha joking

I find this so crazy, so odd, that I love it.

In my canon (even as a loyal Imperial) Im going to say this is canon. Draigo is indeed turned by Slaanesh. (probably with the aid of Tzeentch and his 'just as planned')

It would be a fitting irony for Draigo to be the first-ever Grey Knight to willingly fall to Chaos.

KonTheory wrote:
I dunno those gods are pretty cocky pricks,
He prob walked up to him all like, "yeah thats right, bow to me!"

and draigo is all like, "just a little closer...."

For a moment I was all happy thinking "maybe, just maybe, it's Draigo?"

Now I realize it is Draigo.

His helmet was stifling - it narrowed his vision and he must see far. His shield was heavy - it threw him off balance and his target is far away.
The Old Ones say we Grey Knights are descended from the Emperor himself. Bold Draigo gives testament to our bloodline. His roar is long and loud.

Crap. I guess even a Chaos god can bleed.

Well, if its Draigo,.. the emperors trumph card has failed,... no incorruptable marines for you 'umies! You just got Stomped!

< Taken by the void dragon. >

How does this thread have 7 pages?

 purplefood wrote:
How does this thread have 7 pages?

Because there were too many for 6 pages, and too few for 8 pages

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
How does this thread have 7 pages?

Because there were too many for 6 pages, and too few for 8 pages

Because this is 40K, let's see if we cannot crank it up to 11.

Personally, I kinda would prefer this to be Draigo, for a number of reasons.

One, up until recently, GK did not enjoy an auto-pass against the corruption of Chaos. They were resistant, yes, because of their special gifts, but it was their dedication and prayers and such, including dark rites and rituals, that kept them free from corruption. They weren't immune to it, they just knew the best ways to avoid it, and took the appropriate steps to ensure that they were as defended as possible from it... a virtual immunity, if you will, based on the lengths they were willing to go to ensure it. If this is Draigo, this brings the GK back down to a less-OTT level, and back into the grimdark.

Two, Slaanesh is the Chaos God of Perfection. As they say, pride goeth before the fall, and you can bet that Draigo's own human frailties, in this case, probably his ego, gave Slaanesh the "in" S/he needed to tempt him. One cannot strive for perfection without attracting Hir attention.

Three, it was hoped that Draigo would be the one to put paid to the Ruinous Powers themselves. As the saying goes, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Nietzsche warned about gazing into the abyss... I don't suppose he ever considered having to warn people not to leap willingly into it! He also warned that he who fights monsters must take care that he does not become a monster himself.

Poor Draigo never understood that Nietzsche meant 'don't look at Slaanesh boobs'...

Well...I just wrote a long responce full of humour and interesting points.... then accidently hit refresh.

So to sum up...



Oh wonderful... pic ain't workin' either.

It was my Khorne Knight drawing.

AHAHAHAHA!!! Just read the fluff for Slaanesh's gardens
I love Phill's fluff, it sounds like he's got Draigo corrupted

Selym wrote:
AHAHAHAHA!!! Just read the fluff for Slaanesh's gardens
I love Phill's fluff, it sounds like he's got Draigo corrupted

Hopefully! I don't much care for Chaos. But Draigo is stupid spank. Plain and simple.

I love the idea of Draigo falling to Chaos then attempting to usurp Abaddon's position as Warmaster

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Selym wrote:
AHAHAHAHA!!! Just read the fluff for Slaanesh's gardens
I love Phill's fluff, it sounds like he's got Draigo corrupted

Hopefully! I don't much care for Chaos. But Draigo is stupid spank. Plain and simple.

Yep!
And now I'm off to buy a Draigo model to convert to a Slaaneshi Sorceror, for the hereticals!

Selym wrote:

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

Selym wrote:
AHAHAHAHA!!! Just read the fluff for Slaanesh's gardens
I love Phill's fluff, it sounds like he's got Draigo corrupted

Hopefully! I don't much care for Chaos. But Draigo is stupid spank. Plain and simple.

Yep!
And now I'm off to buy a Draigo model to convert to a Slaaneshi Sorceror, for the hereticals!

Don't forget - he needs to display at least 1 exposed female breast now that he worships Slaanesh. Bonus points for 6 exposed breasts and an adamantium plated thong.

Selym wrote:
And now I'm off to buy a Draigo model to convert to a Slaaneshi Sorceror, for the hereticals!

And thanks to FineCast that's now even easier to do

This is doing exactly what the writer wants,
everyone is getting hyped, and the next thing thats going to be written is the grey knights side of things, and draigo is going to start a fight or something, and its just going to go back and forth and he will never be corrupted..

KonTheory wrote:
This is doing exactly what the writer wants,
everyone is getting hyped, and the next thing thats going to be written is the grey knights side of things, and draigo is going to start a fight or something, and its just going to go back and forth and he will never be corrupted..

Or is corrupted and never knows/admits it . . .

which is another wonderful thing about 40k fluff - you CAN have it both ways!

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

KonTheory wrote:
This is doing exactly what the writer wants,
everyone is getting hyped, and the next thing thats going to be written is the grey knights side of things, and draigo is going to start a fight or something, and its just going to go back and forth and he will never be corrupted..

Or is corrupted and never knows/admits it . . .

which is another wonderful thing about 40k fluff - you CAN have it both ways!

Yes
And the next time I see Draigo on the battlefield, I can enjoy myself regardless of the outcome of the battle

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

KonTheory wrote:
This is doing exactly what the writer wants,
everyone is getting hyped, and the next thing thats going to be written is the grey knights side of things, and draigo is going to start a fight or something, and its just going to go back and forth and he will never be corrupted..

Or is corrupted and never knows/admits it . . .

which is another wonderful thing about 40k fluff - you CAN have it both ways!

Agreed!

Corporal_Reznov wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

KonTheory wrote:
This is doing exactly what the writer wants,
everyone is getting hyped, and the next thing thats going to be written is the grey knights side of things, and draigo is going to start a fight or something, and its just going to go back and forth and he will never be corrupted..

Or is corrupted and never knows/admits it . . .

which is another wonderful thing about 40k fluff - you CAN have it both ways!

Agreed!

Yep +1

 Psienesis wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
How does this thread have 7 pages?

Because there were too many for 6 pages, and too few for 8 pages

Because this is 40K, let's see if we cannot crank it up to 11.

Personally, I kinda would prefer this to be Draigo, for a number of reasons.

One, up until recently, GK did not enjoy an auto-pass against the corruption of Chaos. They were resistant, yes, because of their special gifts, but it was their dedication and prayers and such, including dark rites and rituals, that kept them free from corruption. They weren't immune to it, they just knew the best ways to avoid it, and took the appropriate steps to ensure that they were as defended as possible from it... a virtual immunity, if you will, based on the lengths they were willing to go to ensure it. If this is Draigo, this brings the GK back down to a less-OTT level, and back into the grimdark.

Two, Slaanesh is the Chaos God of Perfection. As they say, pride goeth before the fall, and you can bet that Draigo's own human frailties, in this case, probably his ego, gave Slaanesh the "in" S/he needed to tempt him. One cannot strive for perfection without attracting Hir attention.

Three, it was hoped that Draigo would be the one to put paid to the Ruinous Powers themselves. As the saying goes, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Nietzsche warned about gazing into the abyss... I don't suppose he ever considered having to warn people not to leap willingly into it! He also warned that he who fights monsters must take care that he does not become a monster himself.

I strongly disagree, Grey Knights do not get an "auto-pass", hence [poorly written] stories like the Bloodtide that demonstrate what lengths they go to preserve themselves from the influence of Chaos.

Anyway, as much as the idea of Matthew's latest Marty Stu becoming Slaanesh's butt-boy amuses me, I reject the whole concept of Draigo dancing around in the Warp at all. Even Magnus was not capable of traveling the warp in his physical form, why should some punk-ass Space Marine do so? Like in every other instance of exposure to pure warp energy, Draigo was flayed alive. All the tall tales of his supposed exploits in the Warp are just that, Chapter legends. Him manifesting on the battlefield is no more than a psychic echo, like the ghost knights of that other grand master, or Sanguinor, etc.

 Omegus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
How does this thread have 7 pages?

Because there were too many for 6 pages, and too few for 8 pages

Because this is 40K, let's see if we cannot crank it up to 11.

Personally, I kinda would prefer this to be Draigo, for a number of reasons.

One, up until recently, GK did not enjoy an auto-pass against the corruption of Chaos. They were resistant, yes, because of their special gifts, but it was their dedication and prayers and such, including dark rites and rituals, that kept them free from corruption. They weren't immune to it, they just knew the best ways to avoid it, and took the appropriate steps to ensure that they were as defended as possible from it... a virtual immunity, if you will, based on the lengths they were willing to go to ensure it. If this is Draigo, this brings the GK back down to a less-OTT level, and back into the grimdark.

Two, Slaanesh is the Chaos God of Perfection. As they say, pride goeth before the fall, and you can bet that Draigo's own human frailties, in this case, probably his ego, gave Slaanesh the "in" S/he needed to tempt him. One cannot strive for perfection without attracting Hir attention.

Three, it was hoped that Draigo would be the one to put paid to the Ruinous Powers themselves. As the saying goes, hope is the first step on the road to disappointment. Nietzsche warned about gazing into the abyss... I don't suppose he ever considered having to warn people not to leap willingly into it! He also warned that he who fights monsters must take care that he does not become a monster himself.

I strongly disagree, Grey Knights do not get an "auto-pass", hence [poorly written] stories like the Bloodtide that demonstrate what lengths they go to preserve themselves from the influence of Chaos.

Anyway, as much as the idea of Matthew's latest Marty Stu becoming Slaanesh's butt-boy amuses me, I reject the whole concept of Draigo dancing around in the Warp at all. Even Magnus was not capable of traveling the warp in his physical form, why should some punk-ass Space Marine do so? Like in every other instance of exposure to pure warp energy, Draigo was flayed alive. All the tall tales of his supposed exploits in the Warp are just that, Chapter legends. Him manifesting on the battlefield is no more than a psychic echo, like the ghost knights of that other grand master, or Sanguinor, etc.

Seems fair enough to me.
Though 'ol Wardy probably didn't intend for that to be the "truth" of Draigo... (But screw it, who cares! One way he gets flayed alive, the other, he becomes the new butt-boy of Slaanesh )

This has already been mentioned in the threat but I feel it's necessary to point this out again.

I don't understand why some GK fanboys are so staunchly opposed to the possibility that the Grey Knights might not be as completely infallible as Mr. Ward makes them out to be.

Characters are likable not in spite of their flaws but because of them.

If Grey Knights can be corrupted but the fact they haven't been so far is all the more a testament to their faith and strength of character.

If it required no effort at all from them to shrug off any attempted moral or physical corruption then why the hell should I care about what happens to any of them anyway?

Part of what defines a "hero" are the challenges they have to overcome. However, if the writer just hands over worfs to you so you can effortlessly show off how awesome you are, it sucks out all the likeability and sympathy I might have for any main character.

A more formidable opponent and threatening challenge will make their struggle all the more meaningful and remarkable.

Also:

 Popenfresh wrote:
This has already been mention in the threat but I feel it's necessary to point this out again.

I don't understand why some GK fanboys are so staunchly opposed to the possibility that the Grey Knights might not be as completely infallible as Mr. Ward makes them out to be.

Characters are likable not in spite of their flaws but because of them.

If Grey Knights can be corrupted but the fact they haven't been so far is all the more a testament to their faith and strength of character.

If it required no effort at all from them to shrug off any attempted moral or physical corruption then why the hell should I care about what happens to any of them anyway?

Part of what defines a "hero" is the challenges they have to overcome. However, if the writer just hands over worfs to you so you can effortlessly show off how awesome you are, it sucks out all the likeability and sympathy I might have for any main character.

A more formidable opponent and threatening challenge will make their struggle all the more meaningful and remarkable.

Also:

Spoiler:

+1

 Popenfresh wrote:
This has already been mention in the threat but I feel it's necessary to point this out again.

I don't understand why some GK fanboys are so staunchly opposed to the possibility that the Grey Knights might not be as completely infallible as Mr. Ward makes them out to be.

Probably for the same reason that GK haters ignore the fact that the Daemon Codex states that no Grey Knight has fallen. Both sides are dumb.

Your argument is true, though.

Am I the only one who thinks that repairing the bad fluff only makes it worse???

 DarthMarko wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that repairing the bad fluff only makes it worse???

Depends how you define "repairing bad fluff".

Selym wrote:

 DarthMarko wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that repairing the bad fluff only makes it worse???

Depends how you define "repairing bad fluff".

You know counter balancing, one author writes some bad stuff, then the second author explains it as some alternative.....

The difference being, the Chaos fluff is suggestive and open to interpretation (as 40k fluff should be) whereas Wards's fluff sounds more like a 7 year old's fanwank.

 Popenfresh wrote:
The difference being, the Chaos fluff is suggestive and open to interpretation (as 40k fluff should be) whereas Wards's fluff sounds more like a 7 year old's fanwank.

Yup. When reading about chaos fluff, you get an "artists impression" of things. You know that these could be the insane whispers of Slaanesh, an accurate reporting by an Inquisitor, or a corrupted data-log. Anything can be read into these things.

Ward presents his "fluff" as the only true cannon, and that everything must be good for his new favourite army.

But how is that possible they have the dreaded shield of matt ward fluff writing that makes them incorruptible. JK

In all honesty though you might be right.

He is a follower of Slaanesh. Just watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJUi4cB4oc



Video belongs to Flashgitzanimation

 thenoobbomb wrote:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
My bet is that this is Lucius.

Makes more sense.

thats what i was thinking

 Georgefancy wrote:
He is a follower of Slaanesh. Just watch...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfJUi4cB4oc



Video belongs to Flashgitzanimation

love this vid haha

I don't know if anyone brought it up yet, but the astartes in that fluff piece goes through several temptation trials that a grey knight probably wouldn't go through. For one thing, if I recall correctly (my memory could be wrong), there's a time where he's PUBLICALLY CONGRATULATED IN FRONT OF A ROARING CROWD by the high lords of Terra. The grey knights are a secretive organization that isn't even supposed to officially exist, thus an actual grey knight would never run into a temptation like this.

At another time, he's tempted by visions of his past life BEFORE HE BECAME AN ASTARTES. Grey Knights have their memories of their lives before becoming astartes wiped specifically so they never have to face this sort of temptation against Chaos. I'll admit that this deep in Slaanesh's realm, it's possible that Slaanesh managed to rekindle these memories, but that's kind of a stretch and even if it were true, you'd think that astartes would have realized something was odd when he was suddenly recalling memories that were supposed to have been wiped clean from his brain.

In the end, it probably isn't a grey knight, unless the fluff writers screwed up (which admittingly is possible).

TiamatRoar wrote:
I don't know if anyone brought it up yet, but the astartes in that fluff piece goes through several temptation trials that a grey knight probably wouldn't go through. For one thing, if I recall correctly (my memory could be wrong), there's a time where he's PUBLICALLY CONGRATULATED IN FRONT OF A ROARING CROWD by the high lords of Terra. The grey knights are a secretive organization that isn't even supposed to officially exist, thus an actual grey knight would never run into a temptation like this.

At another time, he's tempted by visions of his past life BEFORE HE BECAME AN ASTARTES. Grey Knights have their memories of their lives before becoming astartes wiped specifically so they never have to face this sort of temptation against Chaos. I'll admit that this deep in Slaanesh's realm, it's possible that Slaanesh managed to rekindle these memories, but that's kind of a stretch and even if it were true, you'd think that astartes would have realized something was odd when he was suddenly recalling memories that were supposed to have been wiped clean from his brain.

In the end, it probably isn't a grey knight, unless the fluff writers screwed up (which admittingly is possible).

It's not about what the GK would actually go through, it's about what he wants when he's in the gardens of slaanesh.
IMO, it's showing that Draigo was feling quite proud of his achievements, and wanted acknowledgement, rather than just being a footnote in the IOM's archives.
Bearing in mind this is the warp, the bit about seeing his past life could still happen. Just because Draigo doesn't remember it, doesn't mean the warp wont show it to him. It may have triggered a recall of his memories, and then had an effect on him. As for thinking it was odd, Draigo was in the warp, and had been for a while. He'd probably already lost all sense of reality and reason, just like when you're in a dream, you don't question the fact that there's a giant bunny eating godzilla, who's on fire and reciting your fictional history.

If you read the Emperor's Gift, the main character of the novel has flashes of his childhood before he became a Grey Knight, it's never much, but he does remember pieces, enough pieces in fact...
.

So it's possible for a Grey Knight to remember bits and pieces of his childhood, it's probably just really rare, and something that the majority of them don't dwell on. Actually there's a fantastic line in Mark of Calth where someone writes about the Legiones Astartes and their past, it's in reference to the Space Marines being simply weapons, but it's a good quote nonetheless.

Mark of Calth, page 293 wrote:To rise into the ranks of the Legiones Astartes means casting all else aside. You family is dead. Your youth is meaningless. As far as the galaxy is concerned, you were never born. You forfeit any lingering pretensions of humanity.

I was also going to include a point about Argel Tal remembering his childhood, as well as Talos from the Night Lords Trilogy...

Actually the more I think about this, the more it seems that Aaron Dembski-Bowden is trying to inject the idea that we as readers seem to forget is that these Astartes were once humans, he makes his Space Marines as human as I've seen... seems strange.

 Popenfresh wrote:
The difference being, the Chaos fluff is suggestive and open to interpretation (as 40k fluff should be) whereas Wards's fluff sounds more like a 7 year old's fanwank.

Which is why people should just ignore his stuff.

We march of matt ward and shall know no game balance.

It is good for Space Marines to feel human, makes them easier to connect to.

Well, this totally changes how I have to finish the series of pictures I've been working on...