A separate human faction would be cool. Maybe the Earth Alliance from B5, keeping a lot of old tech and seeing themselves as the true inheritors of the legacy of the human race. Or if they arent dark enough, how about the shadows or the Vorlons, masters of technology and absolutely ruthless when it comes to dealing with lesser races. Shadow clouds or Vorlon Planet killers anyone?
Andalites from Animorphs (the books not that cruddy attempt at a tv series). The Yerks wouldn't be a bad shout either since they are parasites who have taken over the taxxons, hork baj'ir, gedd and humans amongst other races.
Selym wrote: I''d put in the Daleks, because it'd be rather comical to see them rage about how ineffective the'll be in the 40k universe
They might still have the moulds (from where they used to make the models in plastic) laying around in a warehouse somewhere.
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X-men? I'm sure mutants would go over real well. "WAIT, We are the GOOD guys!"
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I would like to see the armies of Granbreton come into play. I know they used to make the Hawkmoon model, but I always loved the whole granbreton imagery. Gonna make a unit of Baron Malaidious's wolf knights using the wolf helms from the pups set.
I would like to see the Scourge from DZC thrown into the mix. Parasitic body-snatching aliens with insectile skimmers armed with virulent plasma weaponry and powerful active countermeasures.
The Marine vs Spartan debate was pretty conclusively settled by an article (Which half an hour's searching has failed to turn up now :() that went through their respective enhancements and pointed out that while both are powerful, the Spartan is basically "human but with tougher bones and better recover", while a Space Marine is not only tougher, he has a built-in chestplate (which the spartan lacks) and not only recovers from anaerobic exercise faster than a human, but can stave off becoming anaerobic for longer because of having super-effective blood and two hearts (as opposed to the Spartan's normal blood and one heart).
Furyou Miko wrote: The Marine vs Spartan debate was pretty conclusively settled by an article (Which half an hour's searching has failed to turn up now :() that went through their respective enhancements and pointed out that while both are powerful, the Spartan is basically "human but with tougher bones and better recover", while a Space Marine is not only tougher, he has a built-in chestplate (which the spartan lacks) and not only recovers from anaerobic exercise faster than a human, but can stave off becoming anaerobic for longer because of having super-effective blood and two hearts (as opposed to the Spartan's normal blood and one heart).
They did say that Spartans don't have the entire pride thing going on though, and are entirely willing to do sneaky sabotage type actions, so that was like, 1 point for spartans who aren't going up against raptors.
They did say that Spartans don't have the entire pride thing going on though, and are entirely willing to do sneaky sabotage type actions, so that was like, 1 point for spartans who aren't going up against raptors.
They did say that Spartans don't have the entire pride thing going on though, and are entirely willing to do sneaky sabotage type actions, so that was like, 1 point for spartans who aren't going up against raptors.
Or any other Chapter with Scouts.
Well scouts are actually killable with conventional firearms a spartan would have. Add on the fact they're super veterans fighting new guys, Spartans probably have a serious edge on scouts.
E.g lots of diffrent races who huddle togeather to not be whiped out by the rest of the universe/ us. who dont buy into the tau's greater good or who arnt wanted by the tau.
On that line something like the Covenant from halo, combine from half life or council races from mass effect.
I think the Dominion from Star Trek: Deep Space 9 could be interesting. Even if you don't include their servant races, the shapeshifting Founders alone would make for an interesting dynamic.
Another vote for the Covenant. It'd be interesting to see a faction with light, zippy craft, Hordes of disposable infantry, and powerful ships. Not to mention they are all armed with Plasma weapons.
If nothing else, because it would be hilarious to watch them eat everything until the very second everyone realises that you can kill them with ropes and swords, at which point everyone stops panicking and roflstomps them.
They did say that Spartans don't have the entire pride thing going on though, and are entirely willing to do sneaky sabotage type actions, so that was like, 1 point for spartans who aren't going up against raptors.
Or any other Chapter with Scouts.
Well scouts are actually killable with conventional firearms a spartan would have. Add on the fact they're super veterans fighting new guys, Spartans probably have a serious edge on scouts.
Maybe for some chapters, but not mine. I would love seeing Spartans Vs Wolf Scouts
I'd go with the Zentrati from Macross / Robotech. They have tech so you wouldn't be hurting for tanks / armor. As a military faction you would have ground troops, air cav, armor core etc. I could see them as a faction that would actually fit into the table top without having to force too many things.
madtankbloke wrote: A separate human faction would be cool. Maybe the Earth Alliance from B5, keeping a lot of old tech and seeing themselves as the true inheritors of the legacy of the human race. Or if they arent dark enough, how about the shadows or the Vorlons, masters of technology and absolutely ruthless when it comes to dealing with lesser races. Shadow clouds or Vorlon Planet killers anyone?
The Shadows. Oh yes, and their minion races like serving them like Kroot and Vespids do the Tau.
I agree. I like the idea, but have never liked the name. Mantic has it right with "Forgefathers". They basically have made Squats fit back into the 40K setting, better than they did originally. (Especially if the Deadzone stuff pans out like the concept art)
I have a race that would actually challenge the 40K universe unlike any other. A sort of mix of all of the races to date, but unique and far far worse.
The Necris from Unreal Tournament.
Not to be confused or even likened to the Necrons and their fleshmetal of such. No. This race employs Nanoblack, a substance I ripped for an Multiverse styled RP on another forum ages ago. Essentially, and this isn't exactly how it works for the Necris, but certainly how it would if we were being realistic, it's nanotech that essentially acts like a cancer in whoever hosts it. It converts everything it touches into more nanoblack and the nanoblack itself generates an unprecedented amount of energy on its own, so that when pooled in mass quantities, nanoblack has the capacity of overthrowing systems, fleets, armies and such.
In Unreal Tournament, the Necris attack planets by opening portals over the worlds they choose to invade and deploy massive cables from their universe that latch onto the planet and effectively convert it into a Nanoblack planet. The race itself deploys fast attack vehicles and energy based weaponry, fueled by the nanoblack in the people themselves. Their troops act like religious zealots towards the spreading of Nanoblack and their culture. Because of the nature of Nanoblack, it is ridiculously adaptive, to the qualities of the Borg (another race that would be ridiculous to see in 40k).
But yes. Definitely the Necris. And if you would entertain an even more obscure reference, my Gebrochen Zahlen from the Multiverse, an experimental group of people who have been subject to the mutagenic effects of Nanoblack. +__+
But those are stories for another place and time. Needless to say, I'll bet if I were given the chance, the Zahlen and their Technocracy masters could totally change the face of the 40k universe forever.... mostly because they existed in a multiverse. lol Far worse things on a far greater scale of time under far more mind boggling circumstances.
We had Orks though! XD Seriously. They are everywhere.
And there should totally be Squats! Damn the stupid name and all! Bring'em back!! I'll field an army of Angry Space Midgets!!! >D
Another edit: The Krall from Unreal wouldn't be bad either, but they'd need to be fleshed out a lot more. Or perhaps a "Beast" race? Combines the Fantasy Skaven, Giants, and other exotic races into one? Maybe even led by the Squats?
TheRedWingArmada wrote: And there should totally be Squats! Damn the stupid name and all! Bring'em back!! I'll field an army of Angry Space Midgets!!! >D
I have a feeling that the reason they were killed off is because all the other factions laughed at their name and they died of embarrassment.
Bringing them back just so that could happen again would be counter-productive.
TheRedWingArmada wrote: And there should totally be Squats! Damn the stupid name and all! Bring'em back!! I'll field an army of Angry Space Midgets!!! >D
I have a feeling that the reason they were killed off is because all the other factions laughed at their name and they died of embarrassment.
Bringing them back just so that could happen again would be counter-productive.
That name is no worse than Gretchin! So unless we're getting rid of all the Grots, the Squats should stay! And they should be drunk! In fact, I feel like the Space Wolves was GW's compromise with the Squats for some reason. There should be no compromise. If the Orks get tech that wins because they believe in it, then the Squats should win despite being physiologically unsound. Explain that their planet has insane gravity or something and so they're super dense and super strong. So laughing at them will get you killed. +__+
And their stellar vessels are made out of casks and kegs!
TheRedWingArmada wrote: And there should totally be Squats! Damn the stupid name and all! Bring'em back!! I'll field an army of Angry Space Midgets!!! >D
I have a feeling that the reason they were killed off is because all the other factions laughed at their name and they died of embarrassment.
Bringing them back just so that could happen again would be counter-productive.
That name is no worse than Gretchin! So unless we're getting rid of all the Grots, the Squats should stay!
Yes, because Gretchin are obviously so threatening, fearsome, and especially dignified.
* Runs and hides in a corner wearing protective clothing and prepares for the oncoming flaming *
Or why not combine the squats with the earlier mentioned wookies and go for Ewoks?
I think Morlocks and Eloi might be a fun and well rounded addition. Morlocks for close combat and stealthy sneaky stuff and the Eloi for long ranged combat.
Hey, I support the squats too. VERY fluffy and fun.Especially the bikers and guilds. Just as long as they leave their easter eggs at home I totally give them a vote.
Special rule: They never start a battle without being 7 to 1, so your army size depends on what your enemy fields.
Oh god yes!
Weapon: "You fink its funny bruv!? You fink its funny!? I f****d yer mum!"
Range: 3", Melee
Str 1
Ap -
Type: Useless verbal insult [causes a Ld test, rolled on a 1D6]
TheRedWingArmada wrote: No joke, my mothers name is Gretchin. I laughed my ass off when I figured out what Grot meant for the first time.
..and then I told her. XD
Who gives a crap?! Squats all the way! Laugh as I beat you into a carpet stain with Squats!!
Can they have miniature Leman Russ'?
But how are they supposed to win battles when they're busy squatting taking a dump? My Bloodthirster could slay a thousand of them with one swing of his axe.
Avatrass wrote: The Combine from half-life 2. They are pretty much more advanced tau.
Hey, they can be taken down by a scientist with a crowbar, how strong can they be?
Dude, Freeman is not you traditional scientist
All I know is that after 3 hours of trying to escape a Helicopter I came very close to breaking the disk out of annoyance. Thankfully I did not as the Orangebox also had Team Fortress and Portal on it.
I wonder how a matchup between the Reapers from ME and some of the 40K races would fair.
In Mass Effect the Reapers primary soldiers were their corrupted/enslaved enemies. They used Protheans for an entire army, humans for husks, Asari for Banshees, and a hybrid of Turian and Krogan for brutes. So the base for a Reaper army could be an enslaved variant of a current 40K race, or several. Then actual Reapers could form the heavy support/titans.
It would be kind of cool to think up how a corrupted Hybrid between an Ork and Tyranid would rampage through a battlefield, or what sort of powers a corrupted Eldar warlock would bring to the fight.
It would be fun to see some diversity in the human race, some that obviously don't agree with the concepts of the government and weren't eradicated to a man through war or Exterminatus. The current state of the 'humans' in 40k is hard to relate to and I feel would never come to fruition. We're far too individualistic.
It would be fun to see some diversity in the human race, some that obviously don't agree with the concepts of the government and weren't eradicated to a man through war or Exterminatus. The current state of the 'humans' in 40k is hard to relate to and I feel would never come to fruition. We're far too individualistic.
I agree, but it is rather unfortunate that a commissar with a pistol tends to sstrip all sense of mercy for aliens from your mind.
And governments who disagree with the IOM tend to be murderized...
But at least we still have the Tau-Humans and the "heretics" to go with
TyCorny wrote: The Flood for me. Picture it: a swarm of blob bugs that can turn killed enemy models into zombies.
I just don't see these mind control/zombie enemies as working. Be it the Reapers, Flood, or Half Life aliens...I feel that throughout 40k most armies have an innate or psychological defense that is much too powerful to succumb to this.
You could count out Daemons, Eldar, GKs, Tyranids, Necrons, and possibly even Orks.
And then what? We've just recreated Chaos Space Marines? And maybe some offshoots like zombie tau...not scary...and zombie deldar...oh no...now they're uncoordinated ninjas.
I think the two/three armies that need to exist in 40k should be built from fantasy counterparts.
40k Beastmen (Wookies) 40k Wood Elves (Altoic could already be this?) 40k Dwarves
I just don't see these mind control/zombie enemies as working. Be it the Reapers, Flood, or Half Life aliens...I feel that throughout 40k most armies have an innate or psychological defense that is much too powerful to succumb to this.
I didnt think of it as mind control, so much as corpse re-purposing. anything with nerves could potentially be overtaken after death. so basically just no Necrons
I just don't see these mind control/zombie enemies as working. Be it the Reapers, Flood, or Half Life aliens...I feel that throughout 40k most armies have an innate or psychological defense that is much too powerful to succumb to this.
I didnt think of it as mind control, so much as corpse re-purposing. anything with nerves could potentially be overtaken after death. so basically just no Necrons
I just don't see these mind control/zombie enemies as working. Be it the Reapers, Flood, or Half Life aliens...I feel that throughout 40k most armies have an innate or psychological defense that is much too powerful to succumb to this.
I didnt think of it as mind control, so much as corpse re-purposing. anything with nerves could potentially be overtaken after death. so basically just no Necrons
I see the nurgle-ness a bit. but instead of rot, its, what, plant based? almost seems anti-nurgle to me. in fact that sounds like quite the matchup. extreme plant growth vs extreme death rot
TheRedWingArmada wrote: No joke, my mothers name is Gretchin. I laughed my ass off when I figured out what Grot meant for the first time.
..and then I told her. XD
Who gives a crap?! Squats all the way! Laugh as I beat you into a carpet stain with Squats!!
Can they have miniature Leman Russ'?
But how are they supposed to win battles when they're busy squatting taking a dump? My Bloodthirster could slay a thousand of them with one swing of his axe.
Hey! That Bloodthirster may win with his ax, but let's just see what happens after a few beers and some arm wrestling! >D
It would be fun to see some diversity in the human race, some that obviously don't agree with the concepts of the government and weren't eradicated to a man through war or Exterminatus. The current state of the 'humans' in 40k is hard to relate to and I feel would never come to fruition. We're far too individualistic.
This. So much of this. Yes, I know, there are enough human armies already but what I wouldn't give to be able to play humans that aren't either cannon fodder for the machine or steroid super soldiers. An army that could be played as rebels, mercenaries, or pirates would be amazing and a niche completely unfulfilled. Surely there has to be some option on the spectrum between total authoritarian compliance and gibbering chaos worship?
Failing that, I will second beast men. Think guild war's Charr, but in space. They already look and act like they belong in 40K, in stark contrast to the glimmering pretty humans, token norse, tiny crystal peddlers and tree worshipping plant people.
ductvader wrote: 40k Beastmen (Wookies)
(SNIP)40k Wood Elves (Alaitoc could already be this?)(SNIP)
40k Wood Elves would be a solid representation of the Exodites as opposed to those following the Path of the Outcast. I've seen some AMAZING conversions of Wood Elf models into Exodites using a few different Codexes.
TheRedWingArmada wrote: No joke, my mothers name is Gretchin. I laughed my ass off when I figured out what Grot meant for the first time.
..and then I told her. XD
Who gives a crap?! Squats all the way! Laugh as I beat you into a carpet stain with Squats!!
Can they have miniature Leman Russ'?
But how are they supposed to win battles when they're busy squatting taking a dump? My Bloodthirster could slay a thousand of them with one swing of his axe.
Hey! That Bloodthirster may win with his ax, but let's just see what happens after a few beers and some arm wrestling! >D
TheRedWingArmada wrote: No joke, my mothers name is Gretchin. I laughed my ass off when I figured out what Grot meant for the first time.
..and then I told her. XD
Who gives a crap?! Squats all the way! Laugh as I beat you into a carpet stain with Squats!!
Can they have miniature Leman Russ'?
But how are they supposed to win battles when they're busy squatting taking a dump? My Bloodthirster could slay a thousand of them with one swing of his axe.
Hey! That Bloodthirster may win with his ax, but let's just see what happens after a few beers and some arm wrestling! >D
Because they would have so much fun in the Imperium of Man, I'm going to offer up:
The Minmatar of Eve. Rebellious tribes of pirates, thieves and criminals flying around on ships made of rust and duct tape. They would be the only people who could salvage ork technology and make it work.
Psienesis wrote: The Flood is already in-game. Nurgle Zombie Plague.
Most other sci-fi factions are, basically, already present in 40K with a different paint job.
Actually, the Flood is more like the Tyranids than anything else. At first they function as a Hivemind (Ex. If a Marine that knows how to drive a Warthog gets infected then all of the flood will know how to drive), they reproduce by absorbing Biomass though they require actual biological matter and they are capable of rapid change in forms.
The difference is is that they don't work by stripping planets. They instead convert planets to accomodate the flood (In the level "The Library" 343 Guilty Spark says that they alter the atmopshere). They also don't require a huge invasion force to take over a world. All it takes is one Infection Form and you can lose a planet.
Also, I believe the Flood can infect the Tyranids if they do have a CNS which they most likely do. I do wonder what would happen if a Gravemind would interact with the Hivemind. Would it depend on how many Tyranids are infected?
anonymou5 wrote: The Shrike from Hyperion. Just him. He's the faction.
So...the future son/daughter of tzeentch, khorne and slaanesh?
Surely his tree would represent Nurgle somewhat to?
I tell you what, the introduction of his faction would end all the cries of "assault is dead"
Assault and Shooting would both be dead...and fluffwise the only hope we have is Eldar navigating through time to put an end to it. And even that's a small hope.
Oh here is another good nominee! The Vault Hunters from Borderlands and their affiliated companies! ^Guy above reminded me with Hyperion^
That'd be a bit harder since a lot of the bad guys bite the dust, but then you've got 4 tough as nails, 1 man armies as HQ choices and not much else. Maybe the company tech as troops, elites and such.
Saturn from Hyperion would make a good Titan.
Also, for all you Halo fans out there, I'm sorry. Nearly every other sci-fi race in existence absolutely crushes the Covenenant....and the Spartans.....maybe not the Flood because of their mechanisms, but surely everything else in that abysmal universe. Such a 2d flop-fest as far as I'm concerned. But then I'm an old school Unreal Tournament player and I can't help but feel a little ripped off there. lol
TheRedWingArmada wrote: Oh here is another good nominee! The Vault Hunters from Borderlands and their affiliated companies! ^Guy above reminded me with Hyperion^
That'd be a bit harder since a lot of the bad guys bite the dust, but then you've got 4 tough as nails, 1 man armies as HQ choices and not much else. Maybe the company tech as troops, elites and such.
Saturn from Hyperion would make a good Titan.
Also, for all you Halo fans out there, I'm sorry. Nearly every other sci-fi race in existence absolutely crushes the Covenenant....and the Spartans.....maybe not the Flood because of their mechanisms, but surely everything else in that abysmal universe. Such a 2d flop-fest as far as I'm concerned. But then I'm an old school Unreal Tournament player and I can't help but feel a little ripped off there. lol
Really it would be a Crimson Lance army that is similar to Stormtroopers.
Psienesis wrote: Eh... the Vault Hunters aren't *that* tough though.
I mean, I have a level 50 Mechromancer, and it doesn't take a whole lot of incoming fire to put her down if my bot's not up.
Key words there. If you're mega-bot isn't down pwning face before you can get a shot off, you're not doing it right. XD
And Axton's Turret is nothing to sneeze at. Neither is Salvador. In fact, I believe Salvador to be the strongest. Maya...meh. She's can be strong...but meh.
Yeah. I've got 50's on all of them too (except Krieg, which I want) and Salvador kicks all their @zz's. lol
TheRedWingArmada wrote: Oh here is another good nominee! The Vault Hunters from Borderlands and their affiliated companies! ^Guy above reminded me with Hyperion^
That'd be a bit harder since a lot of the bad guys bite the dust, but then you've got 4 tough as nails, 1 man armies as HQ choices and not much else. Maybe the company tech as troops, elites and such.
Saturn from Hyperion would make a good Titan.
Also, for all you Halo fans out there, I'm sorry. Nearly every other sci-fi race in existence absolutely crushes the Covenenant....and the Spartans.....maybe not the Flood because of their mechanisms, but surely everything else in that abysmal universe. Such a 2d flop-fest as far as I'm concerned. But then I'm an old school Unreal Tournament player and I can't help but feel a little ripped off there. lol
Maybe its worth pointing out that the Covenant has plasma weapons out the wazoo. And they are just as deadly as youd imagine theyd be. Their vehicles on the other hand...
Psienesis wrote: Eh... the Vault Hunters aren't *that* tough though.
I mean, I have a level 50 Mechromancer, and it doesn't take a whole lot of incoming fire to put her down if my bot's not up.
Key words there. If you're mega-bot isn't down pwning face before you can get a shot off, you're not doing it right. XD
And Axton's Turret is nothing to sneeze at. Neither is Salvador. In fact, I believe Salvador to be the strongest. Maya...meh. She's can be strong...but meh.
Yeah. I've got 50's on all of them too (except Krieg, which I want) and Salvador kicks all their @zz's. lol
Dont't forget Illic...I mean Zero.
And the Mecromancer can kill most enemy with a single shot if you get her stacks up. Maybe the strength on her weapon increases as she accumulates kills with it?
Psienesis wrote: Eh... the Vault Hunters aren't *that* tough though.
I mean, I have a level 50 Mechromancer, and it doesn't take a whole lot of incoming fire to put her down if my bot's not up.
Key words there. If you're mega-bot isn't down pwning face before you can get a shot off, you're not doing it right. XD
And Axton's Turret is nothing to sneeze at. Neither is Salvador. In fact, I believe Salvador to be the strongest. Maya...meh. She's can be strong...but meh.
Yeah. I've got 50's on all of them too (except Krieg, which I want) and Salvador kicks all their @zz's. lol
But none of them are Space Marines. I mean, seriously. These people would be crushed, instantly, by a Deathwatch Kill-Team, let alone an actual Battle Company.
Psienesis wrote: Eh... the Vault Hunters aren't *that* tough though.
I mean, I have a level 50 Mechromancer, and it doesn't take a whole lot of incoming fire to put her down if my bot's not up.
Key words there. If you're mega-bot isn't down pwning face before you can get a shot off, you're not doing it right. XD
And Axton's Turret is nothing to sneeze at. Neither is Salvador. In fact, I believe Salvador to be the strongest. Maya...meh. She's can be strong...but meh.
Yeah. I've got 50's on all of them too (except Krieg, which I want) and Salvador kicks all their @zz's. lol
But none of them are Space Marines. I mean, seriously. These people would be crushed, instantly, by a Deathwatch Kill-Team, let alone an actual Battle Company.
If a space Marine can die to a shoota boy...then many space marines can die to the lead wind that is Salvador.
Psienesis wrote: Eh... the Vault Hunters aren't *that* tough though.
I mean, I have a level 50 Mechromancer, and it doesn't take a whole lot of incoming fire to put her down if my bot's not up.
Key words there. If you're mega-bot isn't down pwning face before you can get a shot off, you're not doing it right. XD
And Axton's Turret is nothing to sneeze at. Neither is Salvador. In fact, I believe Salvador to be the strongest. Maya...meh. She's can be strong...but meh.
Yeah. I've got 50's on all of them too (except Krieg, which I want) and Salvador kicks all their @zz's. lol
But none of them are Space Marines. I mean, seriously. These people would be crushed, instantly, by a Deathwatch Kill-Team, let alone an actual Battle Company.
If a space Marine can die to a shoota boy...then many space marines can die to the lead wind that is Salvador.
Have an exalt.
And I'm wondering about everyone's Mechromancers. Are ya'll not Elemental Snipers with Elemental/Def Bot? So you shoot him, he gets element, then chucks ball and kills everything while still having "the Clap >D" among other things I can't remember right this second? (so peaved about my PS3 burning out before I could finish the Borderlands 2 DLC). Because with that build, I get Clappy back before he even goes away and nobody is worrying about whether or nor my OP electric sniper shots are killing you or not. XD She's so ridiculous, it's not even funny. Although I'm sure with the lvl upgrades, she was even worse.
Still though...Salvador wins. Gear for Gear, pound for pound, bullet for bullet, Salvador freaking wins. Why? Because Double Grenades. Double Exploding Guns. Double everything that is everyone. He takes all of his buffs internally and becomes a Squat Titan-Killer, no joke. My friends hate me if I'm Salvador in a challenge. Zero included (how did I forget him). Oh you're stealth? My explosions don't care. Advance towards me, brethren!
Who here had double Infinity pistols and raped Terramorpheos! Show of hands? XD
Edit: You're right. I forgot about Covenant plasma (twice). So even if it was as good as Tau they're still as flimsy as Orks. Lack of armor and all that, plus they got taken over by Brutes who were even dumber than the Covy's...particular their Squats. See?! Bring back Squats! They are in everyones army for a reason!!
Definatly the daleks ,the rebooted ones not the old crappy ones. The daleks would fit right in with 40k and maybe there the race that the tyranids are running from. Seriously dont judge the new daleks until you see them in action. The christpher eccleston dalek episodes show them best also mat smith's episode day of the doctor.
Covenant Plasma is described and portrayed as being very lethal to most targets. You will be seriously hurt even if narrowly misses. It chews through most personal armor except for Hunters. It doesnt melt you but it kills what it hits. So its at least stronger than a lasgun. I would give them S4 AP4 as a general statline.
TheCustomLime wrote: Covenant Plasma is described and portrayed as being very lethal to most targets. You will be seriously hurt even if narrowly misses. It chews through most personal armor except for Hunters. It doesnt melt you but it kills what it hits. So its at least stronger than a lasgun. I would give them S4 AP4 as a general statline.
Sounds about right. You would need to do something for the secondary fire, kind of like the overcharge on ion rifles (+1 str Hev1 blast).
TheRedWingArmada wrote: No joke, my mothers name is Gretchin. I laughed my ass off when I figured out what Grot meant for the first time.
..and then I told her. XD
Who gives a crap?! Squats all the way! Laugh as I beat you into a carpet stain with Squats!!
Can they have miniature Leman Russ'?
But how are they supposed to win battles when they're busy squatting taking a dump? My Bloodthirster could slay a thousand of them with one swing of his axe.
Hey! That Bloodthirster may win with his ax, but let's just see what happens after a few beers and some arm wrestling! >D
The servants of Khorne only drink bloody marys.
Fixed that for ya
There's a reason why they call it Blood-thirst-er.
The problem with porting factions into other settings is not thinking how they would integrate with that setting. As the Covenant have been brought up many times, I will use them as an example. They would have existed in the 40k universe for a considerable amount of time, and given their conquering nature they would undoubtedly come into conflict with the various high-powered factions of 40k at some point. It would be like putting Wood Elves into a near-future sci-fi and assuming that they would still be using essentially Medieval technology. This is also kind of why the SPARTAN vs Space Marine argument is inherently flawed; it's comparing things from vastly different settings that are incompatible.
By this logic I would look to the Tau as the ideal template for how a civilisation would be when ported to 40k, as far as technology level goes. They are fairly unique in 40k in that they, unlike the other races, are not suffering from a 'fall' or Dark Age or any other form of technological stagnation. In effect, I'm saying that we think "what would [insert faction] be like if they had time to develop their technology to a level adequate for the 40k universe, like the Tau did?". Covenant plasma would therefore be compared to Tau plasma. Not that their weapons would directly match the Tau's, just like saying that the Aztecs in the modern age could have ballistic weapons that are not carbon copies of existing ones.
So, while SPARTANs and Space Marines are pretty much the same relative to their own setting, there are obvious issues when they are compared cross-setting like this. To that end, it becomes very "My fandom can beat up your fandom", which is just completely silly and arbitrary. Don't get me wrong, I am definitely an enormous Halo fanboy, but knowing the capabilities of both warriors, I know that a Space Marine is superior when compared directly, and any argument to the contrary is just blind and based in personal preference (just like an Uncharted fan saying that Drake could beat up Superman, or something). However, what would a SPARTAN be like if it existed in the 40k universe? It would have been, like the Space Marine, designed to fit the setting. So really we have to think about "What if the Tau created a unit designed for the same purposes as SPARTANs were in the Halo setting?". In essence, "What if the Tau made SPARTANs?".
TL;DR: When porting something into a different setting, think about what that thing is in its own setting, and think about what it would be like when changed to suit.
There's a reason why they call it Blood-thirst-er.
What about Blood-crush-ers?
EDIT2: I realise that this has gone on long enough, but bear with me. Really what I am saying is that it is very much like nature. Something that is thriving in one ecosystem will not necessarily thrive in another, so two creatures from widely different ecosystems can't really be favorably compared. What's better, a rat or a tiger? Sure, a tiger is physically superior, but one of those is endangered, and it's not the rat. But what would a rat be like if it had evolved to fit the same ecological niche as a tiger? Would this predatory rat-beast be superior to a tiger? Hard to tell.
Psienesis wrote: The Flood is already in-game. Nurgle Zombie Plague.
Most other sci-fi factions are, basically, already present in 40K with a different paint job.
Actually, the Flood is more like the Tyranids than anything else. At first they function as a Hivemind (Ex. If a Marine that knows how to drive a Warthog gets infected then all of the flood will know how to drive), they reproduce by absorbing Biomass though they require actual biological matter and they are capable of rapid change in forms.
The difference is is that they don't work by stripping planets. They instead convert planets to accomodate the flood (In the level "The Library" 343 Guilty Spark says that they alter the atmopshere). They also don't require a huge invasion force to take over a world. All it takes is one Infection Form and you can lose a planet.
Also, I believe the Flood can infect the Tyranids if they do have a CNS which they most likely do. I do wonder what would happen if a Gravemind would interact with the Hivemind. Would it depend on how many Tyranids are infected?
Curiously when the Flood infestation grows enough they start to be less Tyranid and more C'tan.
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TheRedWingArmada wrote: Oh here is another good nominee! The Vault Hunters from Borderlands and their affiliated companies! ^Guy above reminded me with Hyperion^
That'd be a bit harder since a lot of the bad guys bite the dust, but then you've got 4 tough as nails, 1 man armies as HQ choices and not much else. Maybe the company tech as troops, elites and such.
Saturn from Hyperion would make a good Titan.
Also, for all you Halo fans out there, I'm sorry. Nearly every other sci-fi race in existence absolutely crushes the Covenenant....and the Spartans.....maybe not the Flood because of their mechanisms, but surely everything else in that abysmal universe. Such a 2d flop-fest as far as I'm concerned. But then I'm an old school Unreal Tournament player and I can't help but feel a little ripped off there. lol
True, but the Covenant and the UNSC are hardly the weakest sci-fi races, for example they are still above most things in Mass Effect and I'm sure there are many other weaker sci-fi races.
Also the Halo universe includes the Forerunners, the Precursors and the Flood, which are quite powerful (several OOM above the Covenant and the UNSC).
As for which race to include in 40k, I really don't know as it would be difficult to integrate a sci-fi race that adds something completely new and important but doesn't curbstomps the 40k (like the Daleks, those guys are universe busters).
The Forerunner are an excellent means to display what I mean, actually. In Halo, they serve as "The Ancient Ones With Superawesome Megatech That Was Basically Magic" common to sci-fi. They do this well in Halo, but as displayed in the Halo universe, they would not be so formidable when directly ported into 40k. The races that serve this purpose in 40k (The Old Ones, the Necrons, pre-Fall Eldar) are much more powerful than the Forerunner have been displayed in Halo, though. This is for obvious reasons - Halo is a game, after all, and it would suck for every Forerunner foe to be insurmountable. Still, if we were to translate them to 40k, we would have to put them on par with the races that function as the "Superawesome Ancientrace" in 40k. Porting them to Babylon 5, for example, would mean that we would have to put them on par with at least the Vorlons/Shadows/etc, and so on.
Frozen Ocean wrote: The Forerunner are an excellent means to display what I mean, actually. In Halo, they serve as "The Ancient Ones With Superawesome Megatech That Was Basically Magic" common to sci-fi. They do this well in Halo, but as displayed in the Halo universe, they would not be so formidable when directly ported into 40k. The races that serve this purpose in 40k (The Old Ones, the Necrons, pre-Fall Eldar) are much more powerful than the Forerunner have been displayed in Halo, though. This is for obvious reasons - Halo is a game, after all, and it would suck for every Forerunner foe to be insurmountable. Still, if we were to translate them to 40k, we would have to put them on par with the races that function as the "Superawesome Ancientrace" in 40k. Porting them to Babylon 5, for example, would mean that we would have to put them on par with at least the Vorlons/Shadows/etc, and so on.
That's debatable, the Forerunners as described in the terminals and the books have capacities similar to the War in Heaven Necrons (but without the C'tans) but with an industrial capacity that is quite crazy. For example both races use extremely fast FTL, space-time manipulation, lots of technobbable weapons, super-weapons capable of decimating a galaxy, heavy use of automated war machines, etc.
Yeah, but you'd expect their robots to take more than a single charged plasma pistol shot to kill on Legendary (Combat Evolved), and you'd expect Promethean Knights (given how they are described, there is little to suggest that they are massively inferior to actual Forerunner technology) to be a lot more formidable (Halo 4). Granted, they're bloody irritating enemies, but being able to fight them at all is a bit of an issue. Not to mention that the Light Rifle has identical stats to both the Battle Rifle and DMR (depending on firing mode). Again, obviously that is simply a gameplay mechanic for balance, but it is extremely necessary to the plot that Chief dispatched a great many of them.
EDIT: What I mean is, both universes treat them the same, but if we were, for example, to port Promethean Knights into 40k, we'd have to give them stats similar to or greater than War in Heaven Necrons.
Seriously? Space cowboys. My 2 cents. And I m not from the us. But who wouldn't love guys with hats and space revolvers. Come on we ve got space fishes, space mushrooms, space marines, bad space marines, daemons from the warp, arnold wannabes, zerg err I meant tyranids, space puppies, flying raiders and dreadnoughts, dark robes in space, space women in space??, mel brooks inquisition. Oh and IG. Why not space cowboys from hell?
avedominusnox wrote: Seriously? Space cowboys. My 2 cents. And I m not from the us. But who wouldn't love guys with hats and space revolvers. Come on we ve got space fishes, space mushrooms, space marines, bad space marines, daemons from the warp, arnold wannabes, zerg err I meant tyranids, space puppies, flying raiders and dreadnoughts, dark robes in space, space women in space??, mel brooks inquisition. Oh and IG. Why not space cowboys from hell?
That's the DEldar, and if they were more aligned to CSM's. Let's call it CSM's with Anti-Grav tech. Maybe tool them a bit a better and give them cowboy hats, but essentially the (dark) raider position is taken by the DEldar.
To the Halo fans, all I have to say is "armor" and ya'll don't stack up right there. lol. I can't get into all the Forerunner, Precursor, Guys from the Before Time discussion because I don't know a lot about it, but it sounds like the Old Ones, C'tan, Chaos Gods, Gork and Mork, the Oprah, and D/Eldar gods.
That said...who has experience killing those God's relics? Who can take out entire armies with a single clip? Who can infiltrate and murder a leader without waking the dog? Who's got the gazzongga's to flatten a Baneblade!?
Do not underestimate the Vault Haunters.... New or Old. +__+ And the corporations of Borderlands 2 could easily be scaled to fit in 40k. Perhaps they're not outright conquering. Perhaps they're more politicking their way across the universe for resource excavations and such. Perhaps that's already going on since Borderlands only spans 1 planet...so far. Perhaps the Vault Hunters stumble into the WH40K universe looking for Vaults. :O New alien tech on the edge of the universe, that has yet to be discovered by the Imperium, but is a well guarded secret amongst the Necrons, Eldar and perhaps even Chaos. "There are worlds out there even you have not conceived," kind of scenario. Welcome to planet Toilet. lol
I also strongly encourage ya'll to look at the Necris from Unreal. I know I'm a fanboy for it and all that, but their Tech, battle doctrine, leadership and all such could easily carry them through the 40k universe as a new race falling on the sector from unknown origins (which would be killer if it were some kind of crazy dimensional lock thing but then they'd need to be written properly since Unreal has them pegged as "corporate owned"). It is something that would scare the hell out of both Tyranid and Necron, that's for sure, and their zealotry would obliterate the Imperium. Think of them like the Necromongers from Chronicles of Riddick, but they don't suck. "All are converts to be awakened to the Truth, that Death is never the End."
Unreal also has them written as taking the bodies of fallen enemies and converting them to Necris tech, then reanimating them with all of their skills, talents and memories through the use of Nanoblack, however they are completely devoted to the collective of undead. Imagine them pumping a Necron full of this stuff (which is both biological, technological and energy generating in and of itself) and waking up some latent memory of it's previous existence before it was enslaved to the Living Metal. Or if a Tyranid Swarm Lord was suddenly turned into a nanoblack marionette on the field. They are like the Borg but without being devoid of personality, which is kinda creepy. I'd say Invasion of the Body snatchers aliens, but the Necris don't drone on quiet as much as they did. It's not that kind of void-collective.
Edit: Oh yeah! Did I mention they have anti-grav, tripods and those squiddly things from the matrix?
anonymou5 wrote: The Shrike from Hyperion. Just him. He's the faction.
You deploy your army. Suddenly, the Shrike Tree is standing in the middle of your deployment zone with half your army screaming while impaled. Blink again and the rest of your army is spread out like a fine mist of blood slowly falling to the ground.
Frozen Ocean wrote: Yeah, but you'd expect their robots to take more than a single charged plasma pistol shot to kill on Legendary (Combat Evolved), and you'd expect Promethean Knights (given how they are described, there is little to suggest that they are massively inferior to actual Forerunner technology) to be a lot more formidable (Halo 4). Granted, they're bloody irritating enemies, but being able to fight them at all is a bit of an issue. Not to mention that the Light Rifle has identical stats to both the Battle Rifle and DMR (depending on firing mode). Again, obviously that is simply a gameplay mechanic for balance, but it is extremely necessary to the plot that Chief dispatched a great many of them.
EDIT: What I mean is, both universes treat them the same, but if we were, for example, to port Promethean Knights into 40k, we'd have to give them stats similar to or greater than War in Heaven Necrons.
If you only have played the games, then you would be right, but if you have read the novels, then you will know that the Promethean Knights (and the Halos' Sentinels) are actually inferior to any actual Forerunner combat technology. For example, a known Forerunner combat machines are the Onyx Sentinels, this version of the Sentinel is armed with a beam that is incredible powerful (the concentrated fire of a dozen Onyx Sentinels destroyed a mesa in a megaton explosion, and 50 were capable of destroying a Covenant ship) and are relatively expendable (Onyx had at least one factory that built one Onyx Sentinel each 6 seconds) and the planet crust was composed of trillions, maybe even quadrillions of Onyx Sentinels.
anonymou5 wrote: The Shrike from Hyperion. Just him. He's the faction.
You deploy your army. Suddenly, the Shrike Tree is standing in the middle of your deployment zone with half your army screaming while impaled. Blink again and the rest of your army is spread out like a fine mist of blood slowly falling to the ground.
Not so sure it'd be a fun army to face.
lol. Well it would be pretty hard to set up a trillion point game anyway, so I'm not sure it would be a fun faction to own either. You buy your one model, spend all that time painting, then can't ever use him because no one owns enough figures to go up against you.
It's possible I suggested the Shrike as a way to gently tease the entire concept of this thread….
anonymou5 wrote: The Shrike from Hyperion. Just him. He's the faction.
You deploy your army. Suddenly, the Shrike Tree is standing in the middle of your deployment zone with half your army screaming while impaled. Blink again and the rest of your army is spread out like a fine mist of blood slowly falling to the ground.
Not so sure it'd be a fun army to face.
lol. Well it would be pretty hard to set up a trillion point game anyway, so I'm not sure it would be a fun faction to own either. You buy your one model, spend all that time painting, then can't ever use him because no one owns enough figures to go up against you.
It's possible I suggested the Shrike as a way to gently tease the entire concept of this thread….
Possible, but unlikely. I vote Shrike Tree, even though I don't know what that is. >>
Tyranids don't really have a central nervous system, what with being exoskeletal creatures.
In fact, it's worse than that - what they do have is a dispersed nervous system. Not just in the normal insect type way, but in the psychic Hive Mind kind of way. Even if a Flood Infection Form got into, say, a Termagant... the moment that Termagant moved within synapse range, it would be a Tyranid-controlled Flood War Form.
Furyou Miko wrote: Tyranids don't really have a central nervous system, what with being exoskeletal creatures.
In fact, it's worse than that - what they do have is a dispersed nervous system. Not just in the normal insect type way, but in the psychic Hive Mind kind of way. Even if a Flood Infection Form got into, say, a Termagant... the moment that Termagant moved within synapse range, it would be a Tyranid-controlled Flood War Form.
Tyranids...with Flood Powers? Dear God! It would own everything so easily.
Tyran wrote:
If you only have played the games, then you would be right, but if you have read the novels, then you will know that the Promethean Knights (and the Halos' Sentinels) are actually inferior to any actual Forerunner combat technology. For example, a known Forerunner combat machines are the Onyx Sentinels, this version of the Sentinel is armed with a beam that is incredible powerful (the concentrated fire of a dozen Onyx Sentinels destroyed a mesa in a megaton explosion, and 50 were capable of destroying a Covenant ship) and are relatively expendable (Onyx had at least one factory that built one Onyx Sentinel each 6 seconds) and the planet crust was composed of trillions, maybe even quadrillions of Onyx Sentinels.
Promethean Knights are regarded as competent infantry by Forerunner standards. Being outclassed by Onyx Sentinels (who are, as far as we know, unique) doesn't mean that all Forerunner technology conveniently faced by Master Chief is therefore terrible by their own standards (Also, anything written by Eric Nylund is of dubious accuracy). If they were as powerful as the old races of other settings (like 40k), the minimum power level of even their basic Sentinels would be much higher. Not relatively fragile machines with mediocre beam weapons, that's for sure.
Tyran wrote:
Furyou Miko wrote: Tyranids don't really have a central nervous system, what with being exoskeletal creatures.
Having a skeleton has nothing to do with having a nervous system.
And a second because Tyranids have both an exoskeleton and an endoskeleton.
^ This. I might add that the Flood may not be able to successfully infect Tyranids, as it is highly possible that the Tyranids would simply adapt themselves to be immune to infection. Also, the nervous system is hijacked by the Infection Form - there is no reason why it would fall under the influence of the Hive Mind. Otherwise, Mindshackle Scarabs wouldn't work on Tyranids in Synapse.
EDIT: And yes, I have read many of the Halo novels.
anonymou5 wrote: The Shrike from Hyperion. Just him. He's the faction.
You deploy your army. Suddenly, the Shrike Tree is standing in the middle of your deployment zone with half your army screaming while impaled. Blink again and the rest of your army is spread out like a fine mist of blood slowly falling to the ground.
Not so sure it'd be a fun army to face.
lol. Well it would be pretty hard to set up a trillion point game anyway, so I'm not sure it would be a fun faction to own either. You buy your one model, spend all that time painting, then can't ever use him because no one owns enough figures to go up against you.
It's possible I suggested the Shrike as a way to gently tease the entire concept of this thread….
Possible, but unlikely. I vote Shrike Tree, even though I don't know what that is. >>
The shrike makes the actual chaos gods look like a bunch of pansies. And it's tree is what it uses to punish everyone it crosses for eternity. Hyperion series is so good...but I sincerely hope I never see that movie made.
Tyran wrote:
If you only have played the games, then you would be right, but if you have read the novels, then you will know that the Promethean Knights (and the Halos' Sentinels) are actually inferior to any actual Forerunner combat technology. For example, a known Forerunner combat machines are the Onyx Sentinels, this version of the Sentinel is armed with a beam that is incredible powerful (the concentrated fire of a dozen Onyx Sentinels destroyed a mesa in a megaton explosion, and 50 were capable of destroying a Covenant ship) and are relatively expendable (Onyx had at least one factory that built one Onyx Sentinel each 6 seconds) and the planet crust was composed of trillions, maybe even quadrillions of Onyx Sentinels.
Promethean Knights are regarded as competent infantry by Forerunner standards. Being outclassed by Onyx Sentinels (who are, as far as we know, unique) doesn't mean that all Forerunner technology conveniently faced by Master Chief is therefore terrible by their own standards (Also, anything written by Eric Nylund is of dubious accuracy). If they were as powerful as the old races of other settings (like 40k), the minimum power level of even their basic Sentinels would be much higher. Not relatively fragile machines with mediocre beam weapons, that's for sure.
Ok, for another example of Forerunner war machines lets take a look at the War Sphinx, their description is very vague, but it is essentially a 10 meters tall mecha that is drooped from orbit and proceeds to annihilate cities and sweep continents. And yet they are considered obsolete when the Forerunner-Flood war started.
I must admit that Forerunner infantry is weak compared with the rest of their war gear, but the truth is that Forerunner military doctrine don't use infantry. They use a combination of cheap expendable swarms and powerful war engines that are capable of leveling the landscape, there is no place for infantry in battles where entire continents are razed to the ground.
I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)
Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.
Pouncey wrote: I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)
Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.
I think this may be pretty close to what you're looking for:
Pouncey wrote: I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)
Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.
I believe anthros exist as mutants on certain Imperial worlds. But they are usually burned/shot/melted as with all who bastardize the holy form of humanity.
Pouncey wrote: I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)
Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.
I think this may be pretty close to what you're looking for:
Pouncey wrote: I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)
Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.
I think this may be pretty close to what you're looking for:
Those remind me of the helmets of the Goa'uld.
That's because they're both influenced by egyptian imagery.
Stand users from JoJo (feth you bloodthirster, oraoraoraora)
Cybertronians from Transformers
Monsters from Monster Hunter to spice things up.
Umbran Witches and Lumen Sages from Bayonetta.
This is just off the top of my head.
Pouncey wrote: I know we don't have any say in the matter, but my vote still goes to some sort of furries. Preferably foxes and dragons. But I'd be even more content with conversion bitz for Sallies that included a dragon helm. (The Space Wolves Wolf Helm bitz are sufficient for foxes, but a proper fox helm would be better)
Seriously, you do not even know the kind of non-sexual joygasm of bliss I would have at having a dragonhelm and foxhelm bit available. Either I'm looking in the wrong spots, or no one makes them. I've had to resort to using Saurus Warrior heads for my Marines, Skink heads for my Scouts and Space Wolf Wolf Helms for my fox Marines.
I believe anthros exist as mutants on certain Imperial worlds. But they are usually burned/shot/melted as with all who bastardize the holy form of humanity.
Suffer not the furry to live.
The funny part is that if humanity manages to survive long enough, evolution will change what our species looks like, to the point where eventually we won't recognize people from the 21st century as part of the same species. ^_^
The funny part is that if humanity manages to survive long enough, evolution will change what our species looks like, to the point where eventually we won't recognize people from the 21st century as part of the same species. ^_^
Hardly. Recognisably human animals are over 50,000 years old, and those ancestors lived in what was effectively the wild (natural selection being a great driving force for change). In our artificial environment, we have no true evolutionary pressure. Almost all forms of mutation are passed on (whether we consider them good or bad) because of medicine. As science develops more, this will only become truer. Even people born with genetic conditions that would have killed them before their tenth birthday two hundred years ago can live perfectly normal lives today. Even sexual selection doesn't really apply to us. Of course, if this situation ever results in serious issues, by that time it will probably be ethically acceptable to eradicate the problem with genetic manipulation (remember, any modifications done to an organism's DNA will be replicated in their offspring). Of course, voluntary genetic manipulation (as in designer babies) may become commonplace, but the result won't be becoming less 'human', it'll be a rise in average attractiveness, intelligence, health, et cetera (qualities we subjectively perceive as positive).
The short version is that the normal model of evolution doesn't effect us as a species living in an artificial environment. Of course, we are evolving, because it is a process of random mutation that will never end, but it is happening at a rate so slow (even by the evolutionary standard) because of our interference (coupled with our long generation time) that we'll likely be extinct by the time we have become unrecognisable to humans from 2013. However, it is entirely possible that we'll get more races, especially when/if we colonise other planets. Nothing as extreme as Ogryn, but something new. Maybe subtle, race-specific bone structures or skin colours. That sort of thing. But not turtle shells and fire breath (although that'd be cool).
ductvader wrote: Not to mention that in many way we've effectively stopped evolution by superior adaptation.
You confuse evolution with natural selection. Evolution is essentially the idea that organisms are constantly mutating with each generation. This will never stop as long as we keep reproducing. Natural selection, on the other hand, is "survival of the fittest". For example, human populations in Africa were under environmental/evolutionary pressure to develop a resistance to the sun. Those born with such mutations survived better, and therefore reproduced more, passing on the "sun-resist" trait. Eventually, over many generations, the skin of those people darkened. The sun was causing natural selection - in short, anyone with a resistance to it was better at surviving. Note; these examples refer to pre-technological populations.
This raises the question; why aren't all humans dark-skinned, and why are there many variations of dark skin, as surely everyone should just have the darkest possible skin? The answer is no. Darker skin needs more resources (proteins) to maintain. Furthermore, it inhibits the production of Vitamin D (which needs sunlight). So, when a population is not in a detrimental sunlight condition, their skin will lighten.
This does not happen in society. Not because evolution or mutations have stopped, but because of how we deal with these problems. Nobody in the modern world is going to die of vitamin D deficiency. Nobody in the modern world is going to have their lives hindered by the tiny amount of extra protein they require for their skin. While these tiny changes make a huge difference in nature, they are completely inconsequential to us in our artificial environment. Unlike organisms that live in nature, the three core aspects of life (sustenance, shelter, reproduction) are trivial matters to humans in modern society. We suffer not the brutal lives of the wild, where every day is a day where you might starve or be preyed upon by some beast you have no hope of defending yourself against. We worry about taxes, little plastic soldiers, and what sort of shirt to wear. Natural selection has stopped for us, but evolution never will.
ductvader wrote: Not to mention that in many way we've effectively stopped evolution by superior adaptation.
You confuse evolution with natural selection. Evolution is essentially the idea that organisms are constantly mutating with each generation. This will never stop as long as we keep reproducing. Natural selection, on the other hand, is "survival of the fittest". For example, human populations in Africa were under environmental/evolutionary pressure to develop a resistance to the sun. Those born with such mutations survived better, and therefore reproduced more, passing on the "sun-resist" trait. Eventually, over many generations, the skin of those people darkened. The sun was causing natural selection - in short, anyone with a resistance to it was better at surviving. Note; these examples refer to pre-technological populations.
This raises the question; why aren't all humans dark-skinned, and why are there many variations of dark skin, as surely everyone should just have the darkest possible skin? The answer is no. Darker skin needs more resources (proteins) to maintain. Furthermore, it inhibits the production of Vitamin D (which needs sunlight). So, when a population is not in a detrimental sunlight condition, their skin will lighten.
This does not happen in society. Not because evolution or mutations have stopped, but because of how we deal with these problems. Nobody in the modern world is going to die of vitamin D deficiency. Nobody in the modern world is going to have their lives hindered by the tiny amount of extra protein they require for their skin. While these tiny changes make a huge difference in nature, they are completely inconsequential to us in our artificial environment. Unlike organisms that live in nature, the three core aspects of life (sustenance, shelter, reproduction) are trivial matters to humans in modern society. We suffer not the brutal lives of the wild, where every day is a day where you might starve or be preyed upon by some beast you have no hope of defending yourself against. We worry about taxes, little plastic soldiers, and what sort of shirt to wear. Natural selection has stopped for us, but evolution never will.
Just wanted to say that is a wonderful post. The other big bugbear I come across is teleology. Which is the idea that evolution has a purpose / direction. If we keep discussing evolution, that will be the next one to come up, I bet.
Aw, thank you! I'm sort of a biology student. Sort of meaning that I'm currently unemployed and desperately trying to get a job to raise money to go to university to do genetics. Not doing well so far. Combined with various problems I'm having with my college still (like not giving me any results for my work because they lost half of it -.-), things aren't going so well. This random sharing of information has reminded me that I need to send an email to someone about this issue, so thanks for that!
Anyway, I usually have a lot of difficulty in explaining things. So much so that I got into a huge drama with a teacher because they were convinced that my essay was stolen from a thesis (one of my college issues).
Back on topic; yes, teleology (although I had never heard of the term before, I am all too familiar with the concept) is definitely an enormous bugbear (I am now going to use 'bugbear' in place of 'pet peeve', because I absolutely detest that phrase).
Frozen Ocean wrote: Aw, thank you! I'm sort of a biology student. Sort of meaning that I'm currently unemployed and desperately trying to get a job to raise money to go to university to do genetics. Not doing well so far. Combined with various problems I'm having with my college still (like not giving me any results for my work because they lost half of it -.-), things aren't going so well. This random sharing of information has reminded me that I need to send an email to someone about this issue, so thanks for that!
Anyway, I usually have a lot of difficulty in explaining things. So much so that I got into a huge drama with a teacher because they were convinced that my essay was stolen from a thesis (one of my college issues).
Back on topic; yes, teleology (although I had never heard of the term before, I am all too familiar with the concept) is definitely an enormous bugbear (I am now going to use 'bugbear' in place of 'pet peeve', because I absolutely detest that phrase).
Sorry to hear about the problems. You come across as fairly well-informed to me. Hopefully so long as you can keep a dialogue open with your college, you'll be able to work things out with them. Genetics is a very promising field and whilst it's hard work to get your start, it's a great destination. Einstein was stuck as a patent clerk for some time. You do get out of it if you stick with it. I had a number of problems with mine also. Was a sucky time.
You're not the only one who is unfamiliar with the term teleology - here's an amusing anecdote (true). A professor of biology stuck a note up in their department admonishing students saying "there was a worrying outbreak of teleology in the department". A number of students and one cleaner, went to their doctor to get checked.
Good luck with the genetics. I want that second heart and the reinforced bone structure!
Not so sure about the spitting acid, although being able to avoid sleep for very long periods of time would be great.
I'm certainly well-informed. Being accused of such grand plagiarism as having ripped it unedited from a Master's thesis would be a lovely compliment if it didn't screw me over so badly.
Although, the interesting thing about teleology is that it does somewhat apply to humans in 40k, what with "becoming a more psychic race". But this is intelligent design by the Old Ones, most likely.
Frozen Ocean wrote: Not so sure about the spitting acid, although being able to avoid sleep for very long periods of time would be great.
I'm certainly well-informed. Being accused of such grand plagiarism as having ripped it unedited from a Master's thesis would be a lovely compliment if it didn't screw me over so badly.
Although, the interesting thing about teleology is that it does somewhat apply to humans in 40k, what with "becoming a more psychic race". But this is intelligent design by the Old Ones, most likely.
Yeah, spitting acid I would decline. Would certainly do my love life no favours.
Sounds like the worst kind of "compliment" you received.
I think the necromorphs would be a great faction to throw into 40k, having moons that can move and turning all sentient life into crazy things.
Space skaven would be fun to.
Just going to say that nothing from the halo verse would ever be a threat to the 40k verse. Any space faring race with a basic understanding of quarantine would never be defeated by the flood. I don't understand how a MBT with the top speed of 19mph is an actually ground threat. I don't know how the covenant can defeat the unsc in orbit but can't beat them in a ground war when the unsc has next to zero air/space support and next to zero anti air/space weapons.
Heck the helghast from killzone would the wipe the floor against the covenant because at least they have an understanding of weapons and actual tactics. ( plus from killzone shadow fall they built thousands of warships, giant walkers, support aircraft, drones in less than 30 years under the surface of a destroyed planet).
Yeah I'd like to see how long the helghast would last in the 40k verse, with personal shields, teleporters, and good weapons
I think the necromorphs would be a great faction to throw into 40k, having moons that can move and turning all sentient life into crazy things.
Space skaven would be fun to.
Just going to say that nothing from the halo verse would ever be a threat to the 40k verse.
Forerunners, Precursors and certain versions of the Flood can easily stomp most 40k factions.
Any space faring race with a basic understanding of quarantine would never be defeated by the flood.
The Flood is incredibly virulent, can use tech and even improve it, plus they also are a reality warping disease, they are practically Necromorphs but with less gore and with more magic.
I don't understand how a MBT with the top speed of 19mph is an actually ground threat.
I don't consider game mechanics a valid source.
I don't know how the covenant can defeat the unsc in orbit but can't beat them in a ground war when the unsc has next to zero air/space support and next to zero anti air/space weapons.
The Covenant sucks on the ground and fare badly without orbital support, still the only ground combat in the war was for the rare Forerunner relic, most of the time the Covenant happily glassed the UNSC from orbit.
Heck the helghast from killzone would the wipe the floor against the covenant because at least they have an understanding of weapons and actual tactics. ( plus from killzone shadow fall they built thousands of warships, giant walkers, support aircraft, drones in less than 30 years under the surface of a destroyed planet).
In the ground, sure. Hmm... how it is the Helghast space combat? Because it doesn't matter that you can win on the ground vs the Covenant when they can burn you from orbit.
I don't think the Helghast would do it. Bullets fare poorly against personal shielding. In addition, the Covenant has some nice tech that can burn through all sorts of metal unless the Helghast equip their ships with shields too.
As for the flood, I would see them as an all or nothing threat. Either you end them quickly or you'll have a big, big problem on your hands. Since when can they warp reality?
Forerunners, Precursors and certain versions of the Flood can easily stomp most 40k factions.
Forerunners = Terrible weapons, Lost to the flood and USNC Mary "infinity" Sue, and john 117
Precursors = why are they gone?
Flood = A organism that requires other races tech (ships) to be a threat, wut?
Halo 4 cutscene went like so
*LOA fleet arrives near a forerunner planet*
Forerunner: "Holy gak humans, Send out the fleet"
Human: "LOA the planet is infested with the flood"
LOA: "Burn the planet down"
HUman: "Shouldn't we warn them?"
LOA: "They won't listen"
Didact: "KILL HUMANS"
How it should of went
Forerunner : "Why are the humans scanning our planet?"
Forerunner#2: "Maybe they are looking for the population centers?"
Forerunner: "they arrived on our night side, any idiot could look out a window and see the cites from orbit
Forerunner#2: "Maybe we should scan our planet:"
*all drones on the planet begin to scan*
Forerunner: "Why is 50%+ of our planet covered in this green sludge gak thats eatting people?
Forerunner#2:"I have no idea, Lets ring up the Lib"
*ring ring*
Forerunner#2: "Hello Lib, there is this wierd Green like sludge on our planet thats eatting people and the humans arrived and are trying to burn it away"
Lib: "send me the scans"
* and in the 5 minutes that followed the Forerunners realised what the humans were doing and so the flood threat had ended*
The Flood is incredibly virulent, can use tech and even improve it, plus they also are a reality warping disease, they are practically Necromorphs but with less gore and with more magic.
When do they warp reality or improve tech? The Flood die to fire really easily and you could just sit in orbit and bombard them until they are gone
I don't consider game mechanics a valid source.
Halo on heroic is considered cannon strength of weapons/abilites/equipment/ people according to the halo designers and authors, (one of the books has the 19 mph MBT and 200M max range Assault rifle, i forgot which one it is though)
The Covenant sucks on the ground and fare badly without orbital support, still the only ground combat in the war was for the rare Forerunner relic, most of the time the Covenant happily glassed the UNSC from orbit.
Every Battle with the humans had a ground war portion, Harvest, Reach, Earth, Halo wars part
In the ground, sure. Hmm... how it is the Helghast space combat? Because it doesn't matter that you can win on the ground vs the Covenant when they can burn you from orbit.
Helghast ship abilites
Energy shielding
Terracide weapons (using a nuclear device on Irradiated petrusite) they haven;t used this ability agian because there are only like 6 earth like planets (breathable atmosphere) that they know of (vekta, helgahn, Earth, Mars, and 2 others)
TheCustomLime wrote: I don't think the Helghast would do it. Bullets fare poorly against personal shielding. In addition, the Covenant has some nice tech that can burn through all sorts of metal unless the Helghast equip their ships with shields too.
Covenant Personal shields get droped after being hit by 2 rounds from the DMR (7.62x51 mm modern equivalent) Helghast person shield.. take a lot more to drop them. In killzone shadowfall helghast snipers are equiped with personal teleports that will move around the field to try and get a better shot at you.
From the Killzone 2 Trailer it seems that the cartridges the ISA and helghast use are Sabot rounds, which would allow the bullet to reach a higher velocity then standard round.
Also Helghast have energy weapons that make Covenant energy weapons look like crap.
STA-5X Arc cannon, Vaporizes the target
The production model in Killzone shadowfall is the PNV-06 Petrusite cannon
anonymou5 wrote: The Shrike from Hyperion. Just him. He's the faction.
You deploy your army. Suddenly, the Shrike Tree is standing in the middle of your deployment zone with half your army screaming while impaled. Blink again and the rest of your army is spread out like a fine mist of blood slowly falling to the ground.
Not so sure it'd be a fun army to face.
lol. Well it would be pretty hard to set up a trillion point game anyway, so I'm not sure it would be a fun faction to own either. You buy your one model, spend all that time painting, then can't ever use him because no one owns enough figures to go up against you.
It's possible I suggested the Shrike as a way to gently tease the entire concept of this thread….
Possible, but unlikely. I vote Shrike Tree, even though I don't know what that is. >>
The shrike makes the actual chaos gods look like a bunch of pansies. And it's tree is what it uses to punish everyone it crosses for eternity. Hyperion series is so good...but I sincerely hope I never see that movie made.
Maybe if Special Effects tech becomes a bit cheaper HBO could do something with it. Do each of the tales as an individual hour long block, that may work. But yeah, I don't have high hopes.
The Void Which Binds: The Shrike does not have to begin the game on the board, the Shrike may come from reserves on Turn 1, he does so automatically with out rolling . When the Shrike enters from reserves he may be placed in base contact with all models simultaneously. This may be achieved with multiple figures, but they all represent one character. The Shrike may not be targeted by interceptor fire. Once he enters reserves he may assault. All models firing overwatch will fire at BS1, and will be forced to re roll successful hits. They may not use wargear or special rules to increase their BS beyond 1. The Shrike may enter and exit close combat as he pleases, with no initiative test. The Shrike may remove and add additional Shrike models to the board, anywhere on the board, during any phase of his turn.
Fast Time: Regardless of the opponent's Initiative value or special rules, the Shrike goes first in close combat.
Avatar of Death: The Shrike is the representation of the sum total of knowledge regarding violence, murder and death of an entire Universe. The Shrike is the ultimate killing machine. His attacks always hit on a 2, and the Shrike may reroll failed attacks. The Shrike always wounds on a 2, and may reroll failed wounds. The Shrike bypasses all armor. The Shrike's opponent's must reroll successful invulnerable saves. For every successfully inflicted wound, regardless of whether or not it is saved, the Shrike generates additional attacks which are resolved before the enemy's attacks. The Shrike's attacks inflict instant death. The Shrike's opponent hits on a 6, regardless of his weapons skill. The opponent must reroll successful hits.
Outside of Time: The Shrike is invulnerable to conventional weaponry. To represent this the Shrike has a 2+ invulnerable save, rerolling failed saves. The Shrike also has a 2+ Feel No Pain, which may be rerolled. The Shrike regenerates to full wounds at the end of every turn.
The Pain Tree: The Shrike may emplace a large Tree at any place on the board, at any time. All models killed by the Shrike may be displayed on the tree for the remainder of time.
TheCustomLime wrote: I don't think the Helghast would do it. Bullets fare poorly against personal shielding. In addition, the Covenant has some nice tech that can burn through all sorts of metal unless the Helghast equip their ships with shields too.
As for the flood, I would see them as an all or nothing threat. Either you end them quickly or you'll have a big, big problem on your hands. Since when can they warp reality?
Since the Flood turned out to be a form of Precursors, essentially once the infestation reach certain size it stops being space zombies and more like C'tan, Precursor tech is pure space magic.
Also even before that piece of information the Flood was already doing things that should be impossible, one example is the big fungus that was the infestation of High Charity , that thing had like several times more biomass than Earth.
Forerunners, Precursors and certain versions of the Flood can easily stomp most 40k factions.
Forerunners = Terrible weapons, Lost to the flood and USNC Mary "infinity" Sue, and john 117
I wouldn't call a weapon that can disintegrate a Hunter from head to toe a terrible weapon, plus Forerunners combat doctrine is a combination of cheap expendable fodder and powerful heavy weapons that can bitchslap a Titan.
Precursors = why are they gone? Flood = A organism that requires other races tech (ships) to be a threat, wut?
Technically Precursors and Flood is the same, just different versions.
Halo 4 cutscene went like so
*LOA fleet arrives near a forerunner planet* Forerunner: "Holy gak humans, Send out the fleet" Human: "LOA the planet is infested with the flood" LOA: "Burn the planet down" HUman: "Shouldn't we warn them?" LOA: "They won't listen" Didact: "KILL HUMANS"
How it should of went Forerunner : "Why are the humans scanning our planet?" Forerunner#2: "Maybe they are looking for the population centers?" Forerunner: "they arrived on our night side, any idiot could look out a window and see the cites from orbit Forerunner#2: "Maybe we should scan our planet:" *all drones on the planet begin to scan* Forerunner: "Why is 50%+ of our planet covered in this green sludge gak thats eatting people? Forerunner#2:"I have no idea, Lets ring up the Lib" *ring ring* Forerunner#2: "Hello Lib, there is this wierd Green like sludge on our planet thats eatting people and the humans arrived and are trying to burn it away" Lib: "send me the scans" * and in the 5 minutes that followed the Forerunners realised what the humans were doing and so the flood threat had ended*
Yes, Ancient Humanity was stupid and should have warned the Forerunners, still the Flood was rampaging across all the Human Empire and they were infesting entire planets in matter of hours, according to some (the Librarian) The Flood could have infested the rest of the galaxy and steamrolled the galaxy in matter of years if it had wanted it.
The Flood is incredibly virulent, can use tech and even improve it, plus they also are a reality warping disease, they are practically Necromorphs but with less gore and with more magic.
When do they warp reality or improve tech? The Flood die to fire really easily and you could just sit in orbit and bombard them until they are gone
They improved the In Amber Clad's slipspace drive to make a pinpoint jump inside High Charity. Normal human drives were incapable of making precise jumps inside a solar system, much less inside another ship.
As for the orbital bombardment option, yeah that is the way to go, sadly the IoM always uses it as a last option, giving the Flood time to infiltrate civilian ships and propagate to another systems.
I don't consider game mechanics a valid source.
Halo on heroic is considered cannon strength of weapons/abilites/equipment/ people according to the halo designers and authors, (one of the books has the 19 mph MBT and 200M max range Assault rifle, i forgot which one it is though)
It is considered cannon to determine the strength of weapons over shields, nothing else as, for example, the banshee in both books and cutscenes is far faster than the gameplay banshee.
The Covenant sucks on the ground and fare badly without orbital support, still the only ground combat in the war was for the rare Forerunner relic, most of the time the Covenant happily glassed the UNSC from orbit.
Every Battle with the humans had a ground war portion, Harvest, Reach, Earth, Halo wars part
Harvest: there was Forerunner relics Reach: more Forerunner relics Earth: a giant portal to the Ark Halo wars: There was always a Forerunner relic in the planet in question, plus a Shield World.
In the ground, sure. Hmm... how it is the Helghast space combat? Because it doesn't matter that you can win on the ground vs the Covenant when they can burn you from orbit.
Helghast ship abilites Energy shielding Terracide weapons (using a nuclear device on Irradiated petrusite) they haven;t used this ability agian because there are only like 6 earth like planets (breathable atmosphere) that they know of (vekta, helgahn, Earth, Mars, and 2 others)
A Covenant fleet can melt the surface of a planet, and the UNSC has a petaton nuke, your point?
TheCustomLime wrote: I don't think the Helghast would do it. Bullets fare poorly against personal shielding. In addition, the Covenant has some nice tech that can burn through all sorts of metal unless the Helghast equip their ships with shields too.
Covenant Personal shields get droped after being hit by 2 rounds from the DMR (7.62x51 mm modern equivalent) Helghast person shield.. take a lot more to drop them. In killzone shadowfall helghast snipers are equiped with personal teleports that will move around the field to try and get a better shot at you.
From the Killzone 2 Trailer it seems that the cartridges the ISA and helghast use are Sabot rounds, which would allow the bullet to reach a higher velocity then standard round.
Also Helghast have energy weapons that make Covenant energy weapons look like crap. STA-5X Arc cannon, Vaporizes the target The production model in Killzone shadowfall is the PNV-06 Petrusite cannon
And the Covenant Wraith in one of the books creates a 40 meter large blast were flesh, bone and armor are vaporized. Whatever is outside of the plasma blast is killed by either the thermal or the kinetic wave. Also the Wraith is capable of tanking its own shot (but no 2). Again your point?
I wouldn't call a weapon that can disintegrate a Hunter from head to toe a terrible weapon, plus Forerunners combat doctrine is a combination of cheap expendable fodder and powerful heavy weapons that can bitchslap a Titan.
You mean heavy weapons that couldn't penetrate the Shields on the UNSC infinity? shields that are utter gak compaired to 40k shields?
Technically Precursors and Flood is the same, just different versions.
Flood are still weak,
Yes, Ancient Humanity was stupid and should have warned the Forerunners, still the Flood was rampaging across all the Human Empire and they were infesting entire planets in matter of hours, according to some (the Librarian) The Flood could have infested the rest of the galaxy and steamrolled the galaxy in matter of years if it had wanted it.
Hours? for a planet? years for the galaxy?
Forerunner-human war was 110,000 BCE, the humans attacked forerunner planets because of the flood
The Flood forerunner war start 98,000 ish 12,000 years after first contact. that is really really freaking slow.
They improved the In Amber Clad's slipspace drive to make a pinpoint jump inside High Charity. Normal human drives were incapable of making precise jumps inside a solar system, much less inside another ship.
As for the orbital bombardment option, yeah that is the way to go, sadly the IoM always uses it as a last option, giving the Flood time to infiltrate civilian ships and propagate to another systems.
Going by Halo 4 human slipspace jumping is very accurate, being able to jump from earth to requiem, and planing on coming out in the center of a Storm Covenant fleet.
By all means let the flood infect a Civilian ship, once the Navigator is dead how does said ship plan on getting to the next planet? Also this is the IOM, They would view the flood as a Nurgle infestation and would probably destory the planet from the get go and shoot any civilian that trys to escape it.
These guys arrive and just blow the planet away just because of the possibility of Chaos
It is considered cannon to determine the strength of weapons over shields, nothing else as, for example, the banshee in both books and cutscenes is far faster than the gameplay banshee.
In game usable banshees = Type 26 ground attack
Fast custscene Banshees/The ones you fight in space in Halo reach = Type 27 Exoatmospheric Multi-role Fighter
Harvest: there was Forerunner relics
Reach: more Forerunner relics
Earth: a giant portal to the Ark
Halo wars: There was always a Forerunner relic in the planet in question, plus a Shield World.
So why bother with the surface ground war when you can burn everything that isnt forerunner away?
[
A Covenant fleet can melt the surface of a planet, and the UNSC has a petaton nuke, your point?
Your right they can melt the surface of a planet.. very slowly over the period of a few days to a few weeks. Helghast (sev and rico) did it in 10 seconds
Unsc had 1 Nova bomb and its gone
And the Covenant Wraith in one of the books creates a 40 meter large blast were flesh, bone and armor are vaporized. Whatever is outside of the plasma blast is killed by either the thermal or the kinetic wave. Also the Wraith is capable of tanking its own shot (but no 2). Again your point?
The wraith is that hover tank that moves faster than its projectile. yeah i think anyone seeing that coming down would just walk/jog out the way. I would rather take an infantry hand held weapon that can vaporize organic targets rather quickly.
I wouldn't call a weapon that can disintegrate a Hunter from head to toe a terrible weapon, plus Forerunners combat doctrine is a combination of cheap expendable fodder and powerful heavy weapons that can bitchslap a Titan.
You mean heavy weapons that couldn't penetrate the Shields on the UNSC infinity? shields that are utter gak compaired to 40k shields?
The Infinity can't come close to the Mantle's Approach because its Particle Guns will disintegrate her just like they have been disintegrating the UNSC Fleet send to intercept the MA. And the Particle Cannons are nothing more than the quaternary AA weapon system of the Mantle's Approach.
Technically Precursors and Flood is the same, just different versions.
Flood are still weak,
Yes, Ancient Humanity was stupid and should have warned the Forerunners, still the Flood was rampaging across all the Human Empire and they were infesting entire planets in matter of hours, according to some (the Librarian) The Flood could have infested the rest of the galaxy and steamrolled the galaxy in matter of years if it had wanted it.
Hours? for a planet? years for the galaxy?
Forerunner-human war was 110,000 BCE, the humans attacked forerunner planets because of the flood The Flood forerunner war start 98,000 ish 12,000 years after first contact. that is really really freaking slow.
That's because the Flood "mysteriously" retreated back to the intergalactic void after the Forerunners started attacking the Humans, hence I write 'if it had wanted it.'
They improved the In Amber Clad's slipspace drive to make a pinpoint jump inside High Charity. Normal human drives were incapable of making precise jumps inside a solar system, much less inside another ship. As for the orbital bombardment option, yeah that is the way to go, sadly the IoM always uses it as a last option, giving the Flood time to infiltrate civilian ships and propagate to another systems.
Going by Halo 4 human slipspace jumping is very accurate, being able to jump from earth to requiem, and planing on coming out in the center of a Storm Covenant fleet.
That is because post-war vessels have been upgraded with Covenant drives, and the Infinity even has a Forerunner slipspace drive.
By all means let the flood infect a Civilian ship, once the Navigator is dead how does said ship plan on getting to the next planet?
By infecting him/her like they do to everything.
Also this is the IOM, They would view the flood as a Nurgle infestation and would probably destory the planet from the get go and shoot any civilian that trys to escape it.
These guys arrive and just blow the planet away just because of the possibility of Chaos
And I'm supposed to be impressed? the Forerunners were blowing up entire solar systems and that didn't stop the Flood, by the time the not very punctual Imperial Navy arrives to the planet it would have been lost long ago
It is considered cannon to determine the strength of weapons over shields, nothing else as, for example, the banshee in both books and cutscenes is far faster than the gameplay banshee.
In game usable banshees = Type 26 ground attack Fast custscene Banshees/The ones you fight in space in Halo reach = Type 27 Exoatmospheric Multi-role Fighter
The banshees in the cutscenes don't match the Type 27 design, they match the Type 26 design.
Harvest: there was Forerunner relics Reach: more Forerunner relics Earth: a giant portal to the Ark Halo wars: There was always a Forerunner relic in the planet in question, plus a Shield World.
So why bother with the surface ground war when you can burn everything that isnt forerunner away? They did that to most Human planets, and they also did that to most planets with Forerunner relics, most of Harvest and Reach was burned except the areas near the relics.
[
A Covenant fleet can melt the surface of a planet, and the UNSC has a petaton nuke, your point?
Your right they can melt the surface of a planet.. very slowly over the period of a few days to a few weeks. Helghast (sev and rico) did it in 10 seconds Unsc had 1 Nova bomb and its gone
NOVAs aren't cheap, but the UNSC has more that one, Cortana actually requested the deployment of a NOVA on the installation 05.
Tyran wrote: I
The Infinity can't come close to the Mantle's Approach because its Particle Guns will disintegrate her just like they have been disintegrating the UNSC Fleet send to intercept the MA.
And the Particle Cannons are nothing more than the quaternary AA weapon system of the Mantle's Approach.
Seeing in halo 4 that they (infinity) say they will do their best to hold off Didact's ship and at the end of it they appear with no damage means that the Didacts ships had horrible weapons. Plus the infinity was able to punch a hole in the Didact's ship with 2 mac rounds (The calcs for such are well below 40k ship based weapons)
That's because the Flood "mysteriously" retreated back to the intergalactic void after the Forerunners started attacking the Humans, hence I write 'if it had wanted it.'
So then the libarian was full of gak then, the only reason it took so long is because the flood is very slow. Also the Halo novels said that the flood stoped attacking the humans because they deserved the mantle and instead went to kill the forerunners who stole the mantle. So why would they wait 12k years when they could of steam rolled them in a year.
That is because post-war vessels have been upgraded with Covenant drives, and the Infinity even has a Forerunner slipspace drive.
Still the point being that the flood didn't improve the Slip space drive because they had no tools to manufacture a new one or remake the one that was aboard the In Amber clad, they just jumped the thing into High charity.
By infecting him/her like they do to everything.
And then what? with no ability to access the warp the ship will be stuck using sublights or until it passes near an Imperial sector and said sector's fleet blows it away because its not where it belongs.
And I'm supposed to be impressed? the Forerunners were blowing up entire solar systems and that didn't stop the Flood, by the time the not very punctual Imperial Navy arrives to the planet it would have been lost long ago
The point being is that the imperium shows up and blows a planet away if it has an infestation on it, unless there is something valuable on said planet.
The banshees in the cutscenes don't match the Type 27 design, they match the Type 26 design.
-â– In the opening cutscene of Halo 2, several Banshees are seen flying in space near High Charity. While they would need to be Banshee Interceptors in order to operate in space, they appear identical to normal Banshees. It is possible that they are more advanced version of the Interceptors or that the pilots are Sangheili Rangers. However, the most likely explanation is that Banshee Interceptors had not yet been conceived by Bungie. - from the halo wiki
They did that to most Human planets, and they also did that to most planets with Forerunner relics, most of Harvest and Reach was burned except the areas near the relics.
After they sent hundreds of thousands of troops down to the surface for no reason.
NOVAs aren't cheap, but the UNSC has more that one, Cortana actually requested the deployment of a NOVA on the installation 05.
she requested one but it was never delivered... the UNSC desided to not deliever a NOVA bomb to a location that could kill all sentient life in this section of the galaxy.
That probably ment that they had none left.
Tyran wrote: I
The Infinity can't come close to the Mantle's Approach because its Particle Guns will disintegrate her just like they have been disintegrating the UNSC Fleet send to intercept the MA.
And the Particle Cannons are nothing more than the quaternary AA weapon system of the Mantle's Approach.
Seeing in halo 4 that they (infinity) say they will do their best to hold off Didact's ship and at the end of it they appear with no damage means that the Didacts ships had horrible weapons. Plus the infinity was able to punch a hole in the Didact's ship with 2 mac rounds (The calcs for such are well below 40k ship based weapons)
The Infinity's cannons don't look like any other Mac (they seemed to fire a beam instead of a round) and that ship is so heavily modified that we have no idea of the strength of her weapons. And really, the only thing the Infinity does is jump close to fire after Master Chief deactivates 4 Particle Cannons and then gets away, meanwhile the Mantle's Approach is annihilating the UNSC fleet by itself, while controlled by only one crazy guy.
That's because the Flood "mysteriously" retreated back to the intergalactic void after the Forerunners started attacking the Humans, hence I write 'if it had wanted it.'
So then the libarian was full of gak then, the only reason it took so long is because the flood is very slow. Also the Halo novels said that the flood stoped attacking the humans because they deserved the mantle and instead went to kill the forerunners who stole the mantle. So why would they wait 12k years when they could of steam rolled them in a year.
To troll the Forerunners with the idea of a cure, the Flood not only wanted to destroy the Forerunners but also to destroy their ideals.
After the end of the Forerunner-Human war the Flood didn't reentered the galaxy until 300 years before the capital strike against the Ecumeme, and even then it was only minor skirmishes in the galactic border. It was only after the corruption of Mendicant Bias and the destruction of the Capital that the Flood really started attacking the Forerunners.
That is because post-war vessels have been upgraded with Covenant drives, and the Infinity even has a Forerunner slipspace drive.
Still the point being that the flood didn't improve the Slip space drive because they had no tools to manufacture a new one or remake the one that was aboard the In Amber clad, they just jumped the thing into High charity.
The In Amber Clad didn't have those upgrades, it had a normal pre-war slipspace drive.
By infecting him/her like they do to everything.
And then what? with no ability to access the warp the ship will be stuck using sublights or until it passes near an Imperial sector and said sector's fleet blows it away because its not where it belongs.
The ship would still have its warp drive and the Flood can use the now infected Navigator to navigate the ship.
And I'm supposed to be impressed? the Forerunners were blowing up entire solar systems and that didn't stop the Flood, by the time the not very punctual Imperial Navy arrives to the planet it would have been lost long ago
The point being is that the imperium shows up and blows a planet away if it has an infestation on it, unless there is something valuable on said planet.
The banshees in the cutscenes don't match the Type 27 design, they match the Type 26 design.
-â– In the opening cutscene of Halo 2, several Banshees are seen flying in space near High Charity. While they would need to be Banshee Interceptors in order to operate in space, they appear identical to normal Banshees. It is possible that they are more advanced version of the Interceptors or that the pilots are Sangheili Rangers. However, the most likely explanation is that Banshee Interceptors had not yet been conceived by Bungie. - from the halo wiki
I was speaking of the opening cutscene of Halo 4 and the Delivering Hope video.
They did that to most Human planets, and they also did that to most planets with Forerunner relics, most of Harvest and Reach was burned except the areas near the relics.
After they sent hundreds of thousands of troops down to the surface for no reason.
NOVAs aren't cheap, but the UNSC has more that one, Cortana actually requested the deployment of a NOVA on the installation 05.
she requested one but it was never delivered... the UNSC desided to not deliever a NOVA bomb to a location that could kill all sentient life in this section of the galaxy.
That probably ment that they had none left.
Or maybe because the UNSC couldn't deliver a NOVA to a place several hundred light years away. The Covenant Slipspace was far faster than the UNSC one back then.
Forerunners, Precursors and certain versions of the Flood can easily stomp most 40k factions.
Forerunners = Terrible weapons, Lost to the flood and USNC Mary "infinity" Sue, and john 117
Precursors = why are they gone?
Flood = A organism that requires other races tech (ships) to be a threat, wut?
Halo 4 cutscene went like so
*LOA fleet arrives near a forerunner planet*
Forerunner: "Holy gak humans, Send out the fleet"
Human: "LOA the planet is infested with the flood"
LOA: "Burn the planet down"
HUman: "Shouldn't we warn them?"
LOA: "They won't listen"
Didact: "KILL HUMANS"
How it should of went
Forerunner : "Why are the humans scanning our planet?"
Forerunner#2: "Maybe they are looking for the population centers?"
Forerunner: "they arrived on our night side, any idiot could look out a window and see the cites from orbit
Forerunner#2: "Maybe we should scan our planet:"
*all drones on the planet begin to scan*
Forerunner: "Why is 50%+ of our planet covered in this green sludge gak thats eatting people?
Forerunner#2:"I have no idea, Lets ring up the Lib"
*ring ring*
Forerunner#2: "Hello Lib, there is this wierd Green like sludge on our planet thats eatting people and the humans arrived and are trying to burn it away"
Lib: "send me the scans"
* and in the 5 minutes that followed the Forerunners realised what the humans were doing and so the flood threat had ended*
The Flood is incredibly virulent, can use tech and even improve it, plus they also are a reality warping disease, they are practically Necromorphs but with less gore and with more magic.
When do they warp reality or improve tech? The Flood die to fire really easily and you could just sit in orbit and bombard them until they are gone
I don't consider game mechanics a valid source.
Halo on heroic is considered cannon strength of weapons/abilites/equipment/ people according to the halo designers and authors, (one of the books has the 19 mph MBT and 200M max range Assault rifle, i forgot which one it is though)
The Covenant sucks on the ground and fare badly without orbital support, still the only ground combat in the war was for the rare Forerunner relic, most of the time the Covenant happily glassed the UNSC from orbit.
Every Battle with the humans had a ground war portion, Harvest, Reach, Earth, Halo wars part
In the ground, sure. Hmm... how it is the Helghast space combat? Because it doesn't matter that you can win on the ground vs the Covenant when they can burn you from orbit.
Helghast ship abilites
Energy shielding
Terracide weapons (using a nuclear device on Irradiated petrusite) they haven;t used this ability agian because there are only like 6 earth like planets (breathable atmosphere) that they know of (vekta, helgahn, Earth, Mars, and 2 others)
TheCustomLime wrote: I don't think the Helghast would do it. Bullets fare poorly against personal shielding. In addition, the Covenant has some nice tech that can burn through all sorts of metal unless the Helghast equip their ships with shields too.
Covenant Personal shields get droped after being hit by 2 rounds from the DMR (7.62x51 mm modern equivalent) Helghast person shield.. take a lot more to drop them. In killzone shadowfall helghast snipers are equiped with personal teleports that will move around the field to try and get a better shot at you.
From the Killzone 2 Trailer it seems that the cartridges the ISA and helghast use are Sabot rounds, which would allow the bullet to reach a higher velocity then standard round.
Also Helghast have energy weapons that make Covenant energy weapons look like crap.
STA-5X Arc cannon, Vaporizes the target
The production model in Killzone shadowfall is the PNV-06 Petrusite cannon
Covenant Shields range in durability depending on rank. A higher ranking elite can take four 14.5 mm sabot rounds to the head before going down and minor elites can take about 16 rounds from a 7.62 assault rifles. The standard issue StA-52 assault rifle fires a weaker 5.56 cartridge. In fact, the standard issue MA5D assault rifle UNSC side has larger rounds than either faction's (ISA/Helghast) main weapon. BTW, I checked those videos and read the wiki and Killzone weapons do not fire Sabot rounds. So, let's just assume for now that a StA-52 is about as good as a MA5D for taking guys down.
Plasma weapons would go right through Helghast armor since they are only good against low caliber weapons (According to the wiki. I would also infer that from the trailers too). It looks like they are more lightly armored than UNSC marines are since Marine BDUs are actually resilient towards modern rounds. Note I am just referencing the wikis so this could be off but try shooting at marines in the chest with your firearms. They don't go down that easy without headshots. So I'd argue that the UNSC marines would do well against the Helghast since they have a bigger round and heavier armor.
And the Covenant has their own equivalent to the StA-5X Arc Cannon: The Fuel Rod gun which can down even spartans in one or two shots. And even lowly grunts (lol puns) have those.
As for the "Flood can't win because they'd be exterminated" I'd disagree with that since this is the Imperium we are talking about. The same Imperium that loses planets just because of a administrative error. Sure, if the Imperium would just bomb the crap out of the infection before it could spread then the Flood would end right there. But if they are just a month or two too late... well, I believe there was a graphic novel written about how the flood can take over ships.
I think Necromorph are too much like Zombie Tyranids, really. Don't get me wrong, I love Dead Space, and I'm not saying that Tyranids are the most original sci-fi aliens ever written, but they would take up the same niche if they both existed in the same universe.
You massively underestimate the Flood. Both the UNSC and the Covenant fight much better in fluff than in game (it's the same principle as 40k, really; what's fun in the game and what works in the story aren't really the same thing, see this thread), and we never see proper military actions by either in any of the games. Also, the Scorpion tank is built for quantity, not quality, and it's battlefield role is more similar to Terminators (bullying units that are not designed to take it out, but faltering quickly against any kind of anti-armour).
It's also not true that the UNSC "can't" beat them in space and the Covenant "can't" beat them on the ground. It's just that things can go that way a lot of the time.
EDIT: Woah, a whole page happened. All I want to say is that the Flood aren't easy. If something can do something, the Flood can do it. That's the problem that the Forerunner had - Flood Combat Forms were using the very same armour and weapons that their own infantry used, while simultaneously being tougher and controlled by a single intelligence. Any technology held by the host race will be taken and used by the Flood. That, and their intelligence, is what makes them more dangerous than just space zombies.
EDIT 2: Silly Deadshot. You should have known!
EDIT 3: Raiden as of MGRR. Eldar Autarchs wish they were that cool.
EDIT: Woah, a whole page happened. All I want to say is that the Flood aren't easy. If something can do something, the Flood can do it. That's the problem that the Forerunner had - Flood Combat Forms were using the very same armour and weapons that their own infantry used, while simultaneously being tougher and controlled by a single intelligence. Any technology held by the host race will be taken and used by the Flood. That, and their intelligence, is what makes them more dangerous than just space zombies.
And their space magic abilities (Star Roads, Logic Plague, Keyminds, plus the standard rapping of both thermodynamics and the law of conservation of mass and energy).
I find it hilarious that the Forerunners, previously the "The Ancient Ones With Superawesome Megatech That Was Basically Magic" of the Halo verse, when looking at anything that is Precursor/Flood they have a moment of: "goddammit that doesn't make any sense, fething space magic!"
The Infinity's cannons don't look like any other Mac (they seemed to fire a beam instead of a round) and that ship is so heavily modified that we have no idea of the strength of her weapons. And really, the only thing the Infinity does is jump close to fire after Master Chief deactivates 4 Particle Cannons and then gets away, meanwhile the Mantle's Approach is annihilating the UNSC fleet by itself, while controlled by only one crazy guy.
so you send your fleets to stop it but not the Big brand new ship that has Loads of Forerunner tech inside of it. I'm glad the UNSC values the survival of the human species so much
To troll the Forerunners with the idea of a cure, the Flood not only wanted to destroy the Forerunners but also to destroy their ideals.
After the end of the Forerunner-Human war the Flood didn't reentered the galaxy until 300 years before the capital strike against the Ecumeme, and even then it was only minor skirmishes in the galactic border. It was only after the corruption of Mendicant Bias and the destruction of the Capital that the Flood really started attacking the Forerunners.
An Idea dies if everyone from that Race is dead. The Flood had no reason to withdraw when they could of killed every forerunner in a year and then left humanity to its own devices
Forerunner-human war ended in 110,000 bce and the flood forerunner war started in ~98,000 bce and ended in 97,000 bce. there are 12k years between the two,
The In Amber Clad didn't have those upgrades, it had a normal pre-war slipspace drive.
Point being that they just jumped into High charity, not with some new and improved drive
The ship would still have its warp drive and the Flood can use the now infected Navigator to navigate the ship.
So then the flood would use the psyker to access the warp and then be overrun with daemons because the flood has NO ability/training to protect their mind from the warp as a psyker.
I was speaking of the opening cutscene of Halo 4 and the Delivering Hope video.
Delivering hope techinically never happened, the Guy who throws the nuke at the end is the Spartan that you replace in the squad. However the Covenant hadn't arrived on reach until your character has replaced the squads previous memeber.
you are correct with the halo 4 intro, however they are still moving within the "84 mph" in game/manual speed thats listed
Or maybe because the UNSC couldn't deliver a NOVA to a place several hundred light years away. The Covenant Slipspace was far faster than the UNSC one back then.
so then why would cortana request something that could never be sent?
Covenant Shields range in durability depending on rank. A higher ranking elite can take four 14.5 mm sabot rounds to the head before going down and minor elites can take about 16 rounds from a 7.62 assault rifles. The standard issue StA-52 assault rifle fires a weaker 5.56 cartridge. In fact, the standard issue MA5D assault rifle UNSC side has larger rounds than either faction's (ISA/Helghast) main weapon. BTW, I checked those videos and read the wiki and Killzone weapons do not fire Sabot rounds. So, let's just assume for now that a StA-52 is about as good as a MA5D for taking guys down.
Elite shields are droped by 2 DMR rounds or 15-18 MA5D rounds, elite shields are not that great
Sabot round
Sta 55/409 Keyzer (Helghast current standard issue)
5.56 x45 mm cartridge, same as what we use today except it has 350 years of refinement which means is probably has a higher velocity in their time
18-24 inch barrel
500-800m effective range
MA5D
7.62x51mm NATO cartridge
24+ inch barrel
200meter MAX range
M14 EBR
7.62x51mm NATO cartridge
18 inch barrel
500 meters effective range (ironsights)
800 meters + with optics
So for the halo verse in 500 years weapons went to complete gak?
I'll take the STA 55/409 over the MA5d any day of the week
Plasma weapons would go right through Helghast armor since they are only good against low caliber weapons (According to the wiki. I would also infer that from the trailers too). It looks like they are more lightly armored than UNSC marines are since Marine BDUs are actually resilient towards modern rounds. Note I am just referencing the wikis so this could be off but try shooting at marines in the chest with your firearms. They don't go down that easy without headshots. So I'd argue that the UNSC marines would do well against the Helghast since they have a bigger round and heavier armor.
UNSC marine armour only covers the chest, shoulders and comes with a helmet.
Helghast armour covers the entire body and has an internal breathing apparatus.
Helghast soldiers also have access to Active camouflage, Camouflage that can Copy the exact appearance of an enemy soldier, Personal Teleporters, Personal shields, deployable energy shield walls.
One society thinks that its medicore weapons are good enough to defend it.
Another society constantly develops military tech with the sole purpose of using it to kill of their enemies.
And the Covenant has their own equivalent to the StA-5X Arc Cannon: The Fuel Rod gun which can down even spartans in one or two shots. And even lowly grunts (lol puns) have those.
The fuel rod gun has the range advantage but thats not a large one when you can see the round coming and walk out of the way, Most of the covenant weapons are short ranged allowing the Helghast (or any modern military force) to engage them at range. (Also the higs see anything that isnt helghast as below them and won't be bothered by killing civilians (their own or civilian) or feel remorse at killing aliens)
As for the "Flood can't win because they'd be exterminated" I'd disagree with that since this is the Imperium we are talking about. The same Imperium that loses planets just because of a administrative error. Sure, if the Imperium would just bomb the crap out of the infection before it could spread then the Flood would end right there. But if they are just a month or two too late... well, I believe there was a graphic novel written about how the flood can take over ships.
If the Flood took a ship they would be stuck using its sublight engines (have fun spending the next thousand years moving to the next system.. that probably got nomed on by nids)
Frozen Ocean wrote:I think Necromorph are too much like Zombie Tyranids, really. Don't get me wrong, I love Dead Space, and I'm not saying that Tyranids are the most original sci-fi aliens ever written, but they would take up the same niche if they both existed in the same universe.
You massively underestimate the Flood. Both the UNSC and the Covenant fight much better in fluff than in game (it's the same principle as 40k, really; what's fun in the game and what works in the story aren't really the same thing, and we never see proper military actions by either in any of the games. Also, the Scorpion tank is built for quantity, not quality, and it's battlefield role is more similar to Terminators (bullying units that are not designed to take it out, but faltering quickly against any kind of anti-armour).
The Necromorphs have the advantage of driving their prey species insane to help them achive their goals. If Tzeentch, Nurgle, and the nids had a child it would be the necromorphs
UNSC in fluff are the Fether who though that putting all of your SPARTAN super soldiers on one ship to capture the covenant high command to sue for peace was a good idea. Apparently they missed their history
lesson about how ALL nations have back up chains of command if you kill their leader.........
However Ingame strengths of weapons/shields is the game set to heroic according to the authors and designers.
Faltering agianst anti-armour?
- can be destoryed by DMR (7.62x51mm rounds)
- exposed cockpit with crap armour
- 19 MPH
It's also not true that the UNSC "can't" beat them in space and the Covenant "can't" beat them on the ground. It's just that things can go that way a lot of the time.
except the UNSC wins most of the ground wars and loses most of the space battles
EDIT: Woah, a whole page happened. All I want to say is that the Flood aren't easy. If something can do something, the Flood can do it. That's the problem that the Forerunner had - Flood Combat Forms were using the very same armour and weapons that their own infantry used, while simultaneously being tougher and controlled by a single intelligence. Any technology held by the host race will be taken and used by the Flood. That, and their intelligence, is what makes them more dangerous than just space zombies.
And the Flood are easily defeated by any competent space race that actually watches its populations health, (or in case of the helghast, scans you to see if your full helghast and not a helghast/human halfbreed or human)
LOA could quick scan a Forerunner planet to see the flood but the people living on said planet never noticed it.
The flood were only a threat because the forerunners never advanced themselves or never developed 21st century equipment (during the SARS outbreak in china, the chinese government put thermal cameras everywhere in airports to see if anyone had above average temperatures, those who did were taken aside for testing)
The Infinity's cannons don't look like any other Mac (they seemed to fire a beam instead of a round) and that ship is so heavily modified that we have no idea of the strength of her weapons. And really, the only thing the Infinity does is jump close to fire after Master Chief deactivates 4 Particle Cannons and then gets away, meanwhile the Mantle's Approach is annihilating the UNSC fleet by itself, while controlled by only one crazy guy.
so you send your fleets to stop it but not the Big brand new sp that has Loads of Forerunner tech inside of it. I'm glad the UNSC values the survival of the human species so much hi
It was vaporizing kilometer long ships with single shots, do you have an idea of the energy needed for that? One shot hits the Infinity and it is gone.
To troll the Forerunners with the idea of a cure, the Flood not only wanted to destroy the Forerunners but also to destroy their ideals. After the end of the Forerunner-Human war the Flood didn't reentered the galaxy until 300 years before the capital strike against the Ecumeme, and even then it was only minor skirmishes in the galactic border. It was only after the corruption of Mendicant Bias and the destruction of the Capital that the Flood really started attacking the Forerunners.
An Idea dies if everyone from that Race is dead. The Flood had no reason to withdraw when they could of killed every forerunner in a year and then left humanity to its own devices
Forerunner-human war ended in 110,000 bce and the flood forerunner war started in ~98,000 bce and ended in 97,000 bce. there are 12k years between the two,
The Flood retreated, no one except the Flood knows the real reason.
The In Amber Clad didn't have those upgrades, it had a normal pre-war slipspace drive.
Point being that they just jumped into High charity, not with some new and improved drive
Something that the In Amber Clad shouldn't be capable of doing.
The ship would still have its warp drive and the Flood can use the now infected Navigator to navigate the ship.
So then the flood would use the psyker to access the warp and then be overrun with daemons because the flood has NO ability/training to protect their mind from the warp as a psyker.
The psyker had training, the Flood now has that training.
Or maybe because the UNSC couldn't deliver a NOVA to a place several hundred light years away. The Covenant Slipspace was far faster than the UNSC one back then.
so then why would cortana request something that could never be sent?
For vain hope mostly. But then the Covenant attacked Earth.
The flood were only a threat because the forerunners never advanced themselves or never developed 21st century equipment (during the SARS outbreak in china, the chinese government put thermal cameras everywhere in airports to see if anyone had above average temperatures, those who did were taken aside for testing)
It was vaporizing kilometer long ships with single shots, do you have an idea of the energy needed for that? One shot hits the Infinity and it is gone.
When did it destroy any UNSC ship? During the New pheonix incident the didact just fired the composer at New Pheonix, Casaulties are listed as Cortana and the population of new pheonix, no unsc ship was lost during that fight.
The Flood retreated, no one except the Flood knows the real reason.
So the super fast flood retreated when the people they wanted to kill/infect were weakened from war... right
Something that the In Amber Clad shouldn't be capable of doing.
Why? Earth slipspace has been pretty accurate throughout the events of halo 1-3 (4 with them getting forerunner engines) While the Distance they can travel isn't that grea the accuracy at which they can is pretty good.
The psyker had training, the Flood now has that training.
Except it doesnt work like that with the flood, if it did the the flood would of known the exact locations of every single covenant/human planet from the events of Halo Combat evolved
For vain hope mostly. But then the Covenant attacked Earth.
the Covenant attacked earth before the discovery of 05.
And that wouldn't help vs the Flood.
Agian it was just an example of what a society does when there is the possiblity of an outbreak, With all of the Tech that the forerunners had they were very lazy with it.
It was vaporizing kilometer long ships with single shots, do you have an idea of the energy needed for that? One shot hits the Infinity and it is gone.
When did it destroy any UNSC ship? During the New pheonix incident the didact just fired the composer at New Pheonix, Casaulties are listed as Cortana and the population of new pheonix, no unsc ship was lost during that fight.
During the last level there are several UNSC ships flying around, the particle cannons are vaporizing them.
The Flood retreated, no one except the Flood knows the real reason.
So the super fast flood retreated when the people they wanted to kill/infect were weakened from war... right
They retreated giving the Forerunners the idea that the Humans have developed a cure, which led to humanity being devolved instead of being exterminated and political repercussions like the development of the Halos (an affront to the Forerunner ideals), and tensions between the Builders and the Warrior-Servants.
Something that the In Amber Clad shouldn't be capable of doing.
Why? Earth slipspace has been pretty accurate throughout the events of halo 1-3 (4 with them getting forerunner engines) While the Distance they can travel isn't that grea the accuracy at which they can is pretty good.
In the books UNSC slipspace was incredibly inaccurate, one of the main advantages the Covenant had over the UNSC was their ability of precise slipspace jumps.
The psyker had training, the Flood now has that training.
Except it doesnt work like that with the flood, if it did the the flood would of known the exact locations of every single covenant/human planet from the events of Halo Combat evolved
Oh look, the Flood extracting information of Keyes' head.
For vain hope mostly. But then the Covenant attacked Earth.
the Covenant attacked earth before the discovery of 05.
But then they attacked it again with a fleet a thousand times larger after the discovery of Halo 5.
And that wouldn't help vs the Flood.
Agian it was just an example of what a society does when there is the possiblity of an outbreak, With all of the Tech that the forerunners had they were very lazy with it.
It was Humanity fault that the Flood infection gained momentum, when the Forerunner where attacked the Flood already had human fleets. And even then the error of the humans was to use the Flood in their pets, because early Flood was only small inert organic dust that its only effect was to make animals more docile, and it stayed in that form for several centuries until one day it decided to become a zombie virus.
I don't see how the Necromorph "insane cult-worship" tactic is more effective than literally taking information directly from those who have it. Beyond the Feral stage, they become increasingly less reliant on host knowledge, having a store of information readily available to them.
For what it's worth, I do think that the "pet dust" thing was a bit silly as an origin for the greatest threat to life in the galaxy.
Also, I think we should stop talking about Halo vs Killzone (which is what I think Ninjacommando is trying to turn this into).
Frozen Ocean wrote: I don't see how the Necromorph "insane cult-worship" tactic is more effective than literally taking information directly from those who have it. Beyond the Feral stage, they become increasingly less reliant on host knowledge, having a store of information readily available to them.
For what it's worth, I do think that the "pet dust" thing was a bit silly as an origin for the greatest threat to life in the galaxy.
Also, I think we should stop talking about Halo vs Killzone (which is what I think Ninjacommando is trying to turn this into).
The "pet dust" thing helps to explain the way the Flood infiltrated Human society.
Well, about the thread, the Helghast, Covenant and UNSC in 40k get murdered the moment any of the main factions notice them.
The Forerunners have a WTF moment when they found themselves teleported to another galaxy, and if they end in current 40k then they beat the crap out of everybody except Chaos by sheer industrial output.
Flood, depends which version, the small outbreaks of the games would be hard pressed to find a place were they can expand, but the galaxy wide infestation at almost the end of the Forerunner-Flood war (before the Halo array fires) would be an unstoppable juggernaut of pain and destruction.
The Precursors have fun in 40k, half of their time they play at the good savages evolving from stone age to interstellar empires, sometimes maybe the want to be fish in some ocean world, and other times they are going to troll the 40k races by moving star systems around, the phrase "(I) Lost (the) Planet" gets a complete new meaning.
Pray tell, how does the Flood spore travel from one planet to another if that planet is subject to Exterminatus and anyone who traveled to it is destroyed in transit to elsewhere?
I did some research and it actually takes around 4-6 DMR rounds to drop an elite's shields depending on rank. Interestingly, the DMR and MA5D have the same cartridge and similiar muzzle velocity yet the effective range is different. I would guess it is because the DMR has a longer barrel and optics but it's still a little weird. Where do you get that the rifle has an effective range of 200 meters? The only hard number was around 300 meters.
I did some digging to see what the MA5 series rifle is based on and they appear to be SCAR-H's with a machine gun round. Just a little fun fact, no other relevancy.
So, the Killzone weaponry have Sabot rounds which means they have greater acceleration. They are still smaller rounds than what the MA5D has and mass is the other half of what makes up the force of a projectile. So I wouldn't say that the StA-55 is all that much more powerful than a MA5D at dropping Covvie shields if at all. Remember, Covenant shielding tech is notable for being able to resist ballistic weaponry. From small arms at least. Maybe the StA-55 has an advantage from the sheer amount of Dakka it can put out since Elite shielding isnt invincible. It's hard to say really since the exact data of these rounds aren't known.
Basic Helghast troopers have about as much coverage as a UNSC marine has. Its just that they have gear meant to resist the conditions of a hostile world. UNSC armor, at least wartime gear, is also much thicker and can actually resist rifle rounds like Helghast armor. That doesn't matter either way, though, since Covenant weaponry will chew through both. Also, the Covenant has personal active camo, gravity whells, deployable shield walls and energy shields. They even have gauntlets that can project an actual shield of energy for personal use.
As for engaging at range, Jackal snipers, Elites with Covenant Carbines, Phantoms, Banshees and Wraiths say hi. The thing about engaging the Covenant at range is that they are very good at closing the gap by using their zippy vehicles.
None of this neither here nor there, though. This is more about throwing something into the realm of Warhammer 40,000 so... as for the Covenant's performance, I'd say they can stand to most of the main factions but they'd be torn apart by wars of attrition. Necrons and Tyranids would give them the most trouble.
Frozen Ocean wrote:I don't see how the Necromorph "insane cult-worship" tactic is more effective than literally taking information directly from those who have it. Beyond the Feral stage, they become increasingly less reliant on host knowledge, having a store of information readily available to them.
For what it's worth, I do think that the "pet dust" thing was a bit silly as an origin for the greatest threat to life in the galaxy.
Also, I think we should stop talking about Halo vs Killzone (which is what I think Ninjacommando is trying to turn this into).
Necromorphs work like so
1.) Black markers are thrown across the universe
2.) Sentient species discovers black markers
3.) Species is compelled by the black markers to make Red markers
4.) Red markers are spread through the species territory
5.) Red Markers cause necrotic tissue to reanimate (necromorphs) as well as causing people to go insane and start killing each other (to make necrotic flesh)
6.) Once enough of a planet is dead, a Convergeance Event occurs
7.) All necrotic flesh and necromorphs are thrown into the Stratosphere and combine into a brethren moon
8.) Brethren moon consumes all organic life aswell as parts of the planet
9.)Brethren moon sends out a signal to other moons and Markers
10.) Brethren moon moves to next planet to consume all life
Halo vs killzone point was just about weapons and what one society did vs another (more along the lines of "how the heck did the UNSC win these battles with weapons that are way worse than their 21st century Ancestors, and If they won)
Don't get me wrong, I love the Halo games and verse.... it just that the UNSC needed to send their engineers to pic up copies of the Jane's Weapons Infantry (coldwar era +) and Jane's Armour and Artillary (Cold war era +), Also books about War economy
The Pet Dust was a pretty lame way to start the flood.
Tyran wrote:
The "pet dust" thing helps to explain the way the Flood infiltrated Human society.
Well, about the thread, the Helghast, Covenant and UNSC in 40k get murdered the moment any of the main factions notice them.
The Forerunners have a WTF moment when they found themselves teleported to another galaxy, and if they end in current 40k then they beat the crap out of everybody except Chaos by sheer industrial output.
Flood, depends which version, the small outbreaks of the games would be hard pressed to find a place were they can expand, meanwhile the galaxy wide infestation at almost the end of the Forerunner-Flood war (before the Halo array fires) would be an unstoppable juggernaut of pain and (mental) rape.
The Precursors have fun in 40k, half of their time they play at the good savages evolving from stone age to interstellar empires, sometimes maybe the want to be fish in some ocean world, and other times they are going to troll the 40k races by moving star systems around, the phrase "(I) Lost (the) Planet" gets a complete new meaning.
Forerunners would get destroyed by Chaos the moment they start to make large portions of humanity disappear (no humans no chaos, well except for slaanesh)
Precursors lost to the forerunners which in turn lost to the flood and then lost to 1 man, his Nuclear Football, and his Spaz AI....
Forerunners Amazing tech but never left the galaxy
Ancient humans ^
What the hell is so important about the Milky way?
Proto-Gravemind to do that task by merging as many hosts as possible with that knowledge, such as former pilots and officers. Rather than completely destroying a victim's consciousness, as a normal Flood form generally does, it interrogates its victims slowly, allowing their consciousnesses to feed it information. The form tortures the host's mind with a loud buzzing sound, thus erasing all thought. Only after the host is stripped of all knowledge is the host killed by the Proto-Gravemind, although it is sometimes possible for a host to die before the Flood form has a chance to assimilate all of its memories
The only psykers on ships (well any that aren't hidding) in the imperium are ones that have an extremely strong will, others get sent to terra to get nom'd on by the Big E. If the Regret could fight off the infestion (mentally) for a few days I'm thinking a person who is constantly bombarded by Evil space magic and the things that live there, will last a lot longer, open himself up to chaos, Blow his own brains up.
I did some research and it actually takes around 4-6 DMR rounds to drop an elite's shields depending on rank. Interestingly, the DMR and MA5D have the same cartridge and similiar muzzle velocity yet the effective range is different. I would guess it is because the DMR has a longer barrel and optics but it's still a little weird. Where do you get that the rifle has an effective range of 200 meters? The only hard number was around 300 meters.
I did some digging to see what the MA5 series rifle is based on and they appear to be SCAR-H's with a machine gun round. Just a little fun fact, no other relevancy.
So, the Killzone weaponry have Sabot rounds which means they have greater acceleration. They are still smaller rounds than what the MA5D has and mass is the other half of what makes up the force of a projectile. So I wouldn't say that the StA-55 is all that much more powerful than a MA5D at dropping Covvie shields if at all. Remember, Covenant shielding tech is notable for being able to resist ballistic weaponry. From small arms at least. Maybe the StA-55 has an advantage from the sheer amount of Dakka it can put out since Elite shielding isnt invincible. It's hard to say really since the exact data of these rounds aren't known.
Basic Helghast troopers have about as much coverage as a UNSC marine has. Its just that they have gear meant to resist the conditions of a hostile world. UNSC armor, at least wartime gear, is also much thicker and can actually resist rifle rounds like Helghast armor. That doesn't matter either way, though, since Covenant weaponry will chew through both. Also, the Covenant has personal active camo, gravity whells, deployable shield walls and energy shields. They even have gauntlets that can project an actual shield of energy for personal use.
As for engaging at range, Jackal snipers, Elites with Covenant Carbines, Phantoms, Banshees and Wraiths say hi. The thing about engaging the Covenant at range is that they are very good at closing the gap by using their zippy vehicles.
None of this neither here nor there, though. This is more about throwing something into the realm of Warhammer 40,000 so... as for the Covenant's performance, I'd say they can stand to most of the main factions but they'd be torn apart by wars of attrition. Necrons and Tyranids would give them the most trouble.
Sorry its the Battle rifle that has the 200meter max range from Contact Harvest.
from the Bungie website the assault rifle has a 300 meter max range
Both the DMR and MA5D use the same round, similar barrel lengths yet one can hit a target far away and has a really short range
Covenant plasma rifle has a max range of 50 meters.......
Covenant carbine has max range of 600 meters
if going by Weapon calcs from BL books and halo books, the Covenant would get destroyed by all 40k factions, All 40k infantry rifles are stronger than halo infantry heavy weapons
Lasgun is calced between 24-30 megejoules, the sabot fired from the 120mm gun on the abrams produces 18 megajoules
Covenant plasma rifle produces 8 kilojules per shot
the meltagun is calced at 25-29 Gigajoules
none of the covenant ship weapons can harm the 40k ships (covenant weapons are high mega to low gigaton range while 40k weaponsare high teraton to mid peta ton range, with shields that can deflect them) The weakest shields are on tau vessals and they can handle the teraton weapons fine.
Psienesis wrote: Pray tell, how does the Flood spore travel from one planet to another if that planet is subject to Exterminatus and anyone who traveled to it is destroyed in transit to elsewhere?
It depends of the version of the flood, the small oubreaks of the games would have problems moving around and would depend on captured ships and the knowledge of its victims to avoid militarized planets.
But the big infestation of the Forerunner-Flood war has control of Precursor tech plus several Forerunner fleets and planets, it isn't going to be nice for anything that isn't Chaos.
Oh, I agree that the UNSC has crappy tech. Case in point, the Scorpion. It has a 90mm tungsten AP shell as it's main method of destruction. And the equivalent of a souped up PTRS-41 can take it out. And it's crew are very much exposed to snipers. How this tank beat anything is a marvel. An T90 can take this thing out.
I think the reason the UNSC did as well as they did was... well, they really didn't. They lost most of their engagements and were on the verge of total loss. The only reason they won was because of Truth being a dick. The only stories we read about were the ones in which the humans didn't stomped.
"What the hell is so important about the Milky way?"... I think this question applies to 40k morel, IMO. You'd think this galaxy was at the center of the Universe.
The Forerunners did build the biggest Anti-SOB machines ever made, you know. Halo can destroy all complex life... however it does that. That's something the Necrons don't have.
Oh, I agree that the UNSC has crappy tech. Case in point, the Scorpion. It has a 90mm tungsten AP shell as it's main method of destruction. And the equivalent of a souped up PTRS-41 can take it out. And it's crew are very much exposed to snipers. How this tank beat anything is a marvel. An T90 can take this thing out.
I think the reason the UNSC did as well as they did was... well, they really didn't. They lost most of their engagements and were on the verge of total loss. The only reason they won was because of Truth being a dick. The only stories we read about were the ones in which the humans didn't stomped.
"What the hell is so important about the Milky way?"... I think this question applies to 40k morel, IMO. You'd think this galaxy was at the center of the Universe.
The Forerunners did build the biggest Anti-SOB machines ever made, you know. Halo can destroy all complex life... however it does that. That's something the Necrons don't have.
Necrons could make every star in the galaxy go supernova if they wanted to.
Ahh, the Celestial Orrery. Thank you Mr. Ward for that weird piece of fluff. Yes, that is an impressive feat of technology but Halo is better from a strategic point of view especially for the Necrons. It can destroy your enemies and you get to keep the galaxy to boot. The Orrery is far more advanced in terms of mastery of the Universe to be fair to the crons.
Oh, I agree that the UNSC has crappy tech. Case in point, the Scorpion. It has a 90mm tungsten AP shell as it's main method of destruction. And the equivalent of a souped up PTRS-41 can take it out. And it's crew are very much exposed to snipers. How this tank beat anything is a marvel. An T90 can take this thing out.
I think the reason the UNSC did as well as they did was... well, they really didn't. They lost most of their engagements and were on the verge of total loss. The only reason they won was because of Truth being a dick. The only stories we read about were the ones in which the humans didn't stomped.
"What the hell is so important about the Milky way?"... I think this question applies to 40k morel, IMO. You'd think this galaxy was at the center of the Universe.
The Forerunners did build the biggest Anti-SOB machines ever made, you know. Halo can destroy all complex life... however it does that. That's something the Necrons don't have.
Necrons could make every star in the galaxy go supernova if they wanted to.
A dynasty has that device, but they protect it from everyone else, even other Necrons. There is also a Necron with time travel tech, but he keeps it a secret. Necrons aren't very good when it comes to sharing.
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TheCustomLime wrote: Ahh, the Celestial Orrery. Thank you Mr. Ward for that weird piece of fluff. Yes, that is an impressive feat of technology but Halo is better from a strategic point of view especially for the Necrons. It can destroy your enemies and you get to keep the galaxy to boot. The Orrery is far more advanced in terms of mastery of the Universe to be fair to the crons.
Both are crazy pieces of tech. For example a side effect of the Halo array is that it burns deformations of space-time, also it ignores both causality and special relativity.
Lasgun is calced between 24-30 megejoules, the sabot fired from the 120mm gun on the abrams produces 18 megajoules
Covenant plasma rifle produces 8 kilojules per shot
the meltagun is calced at 25-29 Gigajoules
none of the covenant ship weapons can harm the 40k ships (covenant weapons are high mega to low gigaton range while 40k weaponsare high teraton to mid peta ton range, with shields that can deflect them) The weakest shields are on tau vessals and they can handle the teraton weapons fine.
Warhammer 40k calcs are all over the place and varies a lot depending on the source and the author.
Thank you. I appreciate it. It might seem harmless, but it isn't. Besides, it's a completely irrelevant trivialisation and misuse of the word and it is unnecessary. Really, though, I am thankful. I've had people start throwing around words like "rights", "freedom of speech", and "censorship" at me in this situation, which is just absurd. The fact that you took it like a mature person is a welcome glimmer of 'human decency' in the absolute disgust I view my fellow man. In other words, that you are a victim of society rather than an actual proponent of it (which is all too common, especially in the wargaming community) is a happy thing.
Anyway, Ninjacommando, having previously stated that I am a huge fan of Dead Space, you don't need to explain to me how the Necromorph work.
As for the question "What the hell is so important about the Milky Way?", it's pretty simple. It's our galaxy. It's like asking why the majority of fiction has humans as central characters.
EDIT: Also, as I said before, comparing the Covenant, Helghast, UNSC, Coalition of Ordered Governments, etc, to 40k is unfair. It is the same as comparing Medieval infantry to power armoured supersoldiers of the year 4000. Therefore, we must scale them appropriately to their time.
Suffer not the furry to live.
