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Not so sure about the spitting acid, although being able to avoid sleep for very long periods of time would be great.

I'm certainly well-informed. Being accused of such grand plagiarism as having ripped it unedited from a Master's thesis would be a lovely compliment if it didn't screw me over so badly.

Although, the interesting thing about teleology is that it does somewhat apply to humans in 40k, what with "becoming a more psychic race". But this is intelligent design by the Old Ones, most likely.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Not so sure about the spitting acid, although being able to avoid sleep for very long periods of time would be great.

I'm certainly well-informed. Being accused of such grand plagiarism as having ripped it unedited from a Master's thesis would be a lovely compliment if it didn't screw me over so badly.

Although, the interesting thing about teleology is that it does somewhat apply to humans in 40k, what with "becoming a more psychic race". But this is intelligent design by the Old Ones, most likely.

Yeah, spitting acid I would decline. Would certainly do my love life no favours.

Sounds like the worst kind of "compliment" you received.

This is a tricky one

I think the necromorphs would be a great faction to throw into 40k, having moons that can move and turning all sentient life into crazy things.

Space skaven would be fun to.

Just going to say that nothing from the halo verse would ever be a threat to the 40k verse. Any space faring race with a basic understanding of quarantine would never be defeated by the flood. I don't understand how a MBT with the top speed of 19mph is an actually ground threat. I don't know how the covenant can defeat the unsc in orbit but can't beat them in a ground war when the unsc has next to zero air/space support and next to zero anti air/space weapons.

Heck the helghast from killzone would the wipe the floor against the covenant because at least they have an understanding of weapons and actual tactics. ( plus from killzone shadow fall they built thousands of warships, giant walkers, support aircraft, drones in less than 30 years under the surface of a destroyed planet).

Yeah I'd like to see how long the helghast would last in the 40k verse, with personal shields, teleporters, and good weapons

 Ninjacommando wrote:
This is a tricky one

I think the necromorphs would be a great faction to throw into 40k, having moons that can move and turning all sentient life into crazy things.

Space skaven would be fun to.

Just going to say that nothing from the halo verse would ever be a threat to the 40k verse.

Forerunners, Precursors and certain versions of the Flood can easily stomp most 40k factions.

Any space faring race with a basic understanding of quarantine would never be defeated by the flood.

The Flood is incredibly virulent, can use tech and even improve it, plus they also are a reality warping disease, they are practically Necromorphs but with less gore and with more magic.

I don't understand how a MBT with the top speed of 19mph is an actually ground threat.

I don't consider game mechanics a valid source.

I don't know how the covenant can defeat the unsc in orbit but can't beat them in a ground war when the unsc has next to zero air/space support and next to zero anti air/space weapons.

The Covenant sucks on the ground and fare badly without orbital support, still the only ground combat in the war was for the rare Forerunner relic, most of the time the Covenant happily glassed the UNSC from orbit.

Heck the helghast from killzone would the wipe the floor against the covenant because at least they have an understanding of weapons and actual tactics. ( plus from killzone shadow fall they built thousands of warships, giant walkers, support aircraft, drones in less than 30 years under the surface of a destroyed planet).

In the ground, sure. Hmm... how it is the Helghast space combat? Because it doesn't matter that you can win on the ground vs the Covenant when they can burn you from orbit.

I don't think the Helghast would do it. Bullets fare poorly against personal shielding. In addition, the Covenant has some nice tech that can burn through all sorts of metal unless the Helghast equip their ships with shields too.

As for the flood, I would see them as an all or nothing threat. Either you end them quickly or you'll have a big, big problem on your hands. Since when can they warp reality?

 Tyran wrote:

Forerunners, Precursors and certain versions of the Flood can easily stomp most 40k factions.

Forerunners = Terrible weapons, Lost to the flood and USNC Mary "infinity" Sue, and john 117
Precursors = why are they gone?
Flood = A organism that requires other races tech (ships) to be a threat, wut?

Halo 4 cutscene went like so

*LOA fleet arrives near a forerunner planet*
Forerunner: "Holy gak humans, Send out the fleet"
Human: "LOA the planet is infested with the flood"
LOA: "Burn the planet down"
HUman: "Shouldn't we warn them?"
LOA: "They won't listen"
Didact: "KILL HUMANS"

How it should of went
Forerunner : "Why are the humans scanning our planet?"
Forerunner#2: "Maybe they are looking for the population centers?"
Forerunner: "they arrived on our night side, any idiot could look out a window and see the cites from orbit
Forerunner#2: "Maybe we should scan our planet:"
*all drones on the planet begin to scan*
Forerunner: "Why is 50%+ of our planet covered in this green sludge gak thats eatting people?
Forerunner#2:"I have no idea, Lets ring up the Lib"
*ring ring*
Forerunner#2: "Hello Lib, there is this wierd Green like sludge on our planet thats eatting people and the humans arrived and are trying to burn it away"
Lib: "send me the scans"
* and in the 5 minutes that followed the Forerunners realised what the humans were doing and so the flood threat had ended*

The Flood is incredibly virulent, can use tech and even improve it, plus they also are a reality warping disease, they are practically Necromorphs but with less gore and with more magic.

When do they warp reality or improve tech? The Flood die to fire really easily and you could just sit in orbit and bombard them until they are gone

I don't consider game mechanics a valid source.

Halo on heroic is considered cannon strength of weapons/abilites/equipment/ people according to the halo designers and authors, (one of the books has the 19 mph MBT and 200M max range Assault rifle, i forgot which one it is though)

The Covenant sucks on the ground and fare badly without orbital support, still the only ground combat in the war was for the rare Forerunner relic, most of the time the Covenant happily glassed the UNSC from orbit.

Every Battle with the humans had a ground war portion, Harvest, Reach, Earth, Halo wars part

In the ground, sure. Hmm... how it is the Helghast space combat? Because it doesn't matter that you can win on the ground vs the Covenant when they can burn you from orbit.

Helghast ship abilites
Energy shielding
Terracide weapons (using a nuclear device on Irradiated petrusite) they haven;t used this ability agian because there are only like 6 earth like planets (breathable atmosphere) that they know of (vekta, helgahn, Earth, Mars, and 2 others)

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I don't think the Helghast would do it. Bullets fare poorly against personal shielding. In addition, the Covenant has some nice tech that can burn through all sorts of metal unless the Helghast equip their ships with shields too.

Covenant Personal shields get droped after being hit by 2 rounds from the DMR (7.62x51 mm modern equivalent) Helghast person shield.. take a lot more to drop them. In killzone shadowfall helghast snipers are equiped with personal teleports that will move around the field to try and get a better shot at you.

From the Killzone 2 Trailer it seems that the cartridges the ISA and helghast use are Sabot rounds, which would allow the bullet to reach a higher velocity then standard round.

Also Helghast have energy weapons that make Covenant energy weapons look like crap.
STA-5X Arc cannon, Vaporizes the target
The production model in Killzone shadowfall is the PNV-06 Petrusite cannon

 ductvader wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 anonymou5 wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 anonymou5 wrote:
The Shrike from Hyperion. Just him. He's the faction.

You deploy your army. Suddenly, the Shrike Tree is standing in the middle of your deployment zone with half your army screaming while impaled. Blink again and the rest of your army is spread out like a fine mist of blood slowly falling to the ground.

Not so sure it'd be a fun army to face.

lol. Well it would be pretty hard to set up a trillion point game anyway, so I'm not sure it would be a fun faction to own either. You buy your one model, spend all that time painting, then can't ever use him because no one owns enough figures to go up against you.

It's possible I suggested the Shrike as a way to gently tease the entire concept of this thread….

Possible, but unlikely. I vote Shrike Tree, even though I don't know what that is. >>

The shrike makes the actual chaos gods look like a bunch of pansies. And it's tree is what it uses to punish everyone it crosses for eternity. Hyperion series is so good...but I sincerely hope I never see that movie made.

Maybe if Special Effects tech becomes a bit cheaper HBO could do something with it. Do each of the tales as an individual hour long block, that may work. But yeah, I don't have high hopes.

On the table top (for fun, obviously unplayable):

The Shrike (Infantry, Character)
WS: 10
BS: 5 (to represent Kassad's skills)
S: 10
T: 10
I: 10
A: 10
Save: 2+ Invulnerable
W: 10

The Void Which Binds: The Shrike does not have to begin the game on the board, the Shrike may come from reserves on Turn 1, he does so automatically with out rolling . When the Shrike enters from reserves he may be placed in base contact with all models simultaneously. This may be achieved with multiple figures, but they all represent one character. The Shrike may not be targeted by interceptor fire. Once he enters reserves he may assault. All models firing overwatch will fire at BS1, and will be forced to re roll successful hits. They may not use wargear or special rules to increase their BS beyond 1. The Shrike may enter and exit close combat as he pleases, with no initiative test. The Shrike may remove and add additional Shrike models to the board, anywhere on the board, during any phase of his turn.

Fast Time: Regardless of the opponent's Initiative value or special rules, the Shrike goes first in close combat.

Avatar of Death: The Shrike is the representation of the sum total of knowledge regarding violence, murder and death of an entire Universe. The Shrike is the ultimate killing machine. His attacks always hit on a 2, and the Shrike may reroll failed attacks. The Shrike always wounds on a 2, and may reroll failed wounds. The Shrike bypasses all armor. The Shrike's opponent's must reroll successful invulnerable saves. For every successfully inflicted wound, regardless of whether or not it is saved, the Shrike generates additional attacks which are resolved before the enemy's attacks. The Shrike's attacks inflict instant death. The Shrike's opponent hits on a 6, regardless of his weapons skill. The opponent must reroll successful hits.

Outside of Time: The Shrike is invulnerable to conventional weaponry. To represent this the Shrike has a 2+ invulnerable save, rerolling failed saves. The Shrike also has a 2+ Feel No Pain, which may be rerolled. The Shrike regenerates to full wounds at the end of every turn.

The Pain Tree: The Shrike may emplace a large Tree at any place on the board, at any time. All models killed by the Shrike may be displayed on the tree for the remainder of time.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I don't think the Helghast would do it. Bullets fare poorly against personal shielding. In addition, the Covenant has some nice tech that can burn through all sorts of metal unless the Helghast equip their ships with shields too.

As for the flood, I would see them as an all or nothing threat. Either you end them quickly or you'll have a big, big problem on your hands. Since when can they warp reality?

Since the Flood turned out to be a form of Precursors, essentially once the infestation reach certain size it stops being space zombies and more like C'tan, Precursor tech is pure space magic.
Also even before that piece of information the Flood was already doing things that should be impossible, one example is the big fungus that was the infestation of High Charity , that thing had like several times more biomass than Earth.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

Forerunners, Precursors and certain versions of the Flood can easily stomp most 40k factions.

Forerunners = Terrible weapons, Lost to the flood and USNC Mary "infinity" Sue, and john 117

I wouldn't call a weapon that can disintegrate a Hunter from head to toe a terrible weapon, plus Forerunners combat doctrine is a combination of cheap expendable fodder and powerful heavy weapons that can bitchslap a Titan.

Precursors = why are they gone?
Flood = A organism that requires other races tech (ships) to be a threat, wut?

Technically Precursors and Flood is the same, just different versions.

Halo 4 cutscene went like so

*LOA fleet arrives near a forerunner planet*
Forerunner: "Holy gak humans, Send out the fleet"
Human: "LOA the planet is infested with the flood"
LOA: "Burn the planet down"
HUman: "Shouldn't we warn them?"
LOA: "They won't listen"
Didact: "KILL HUMANS"



How it should of went
Forerunner : "Why are the humans scanning our planet?"
Forerunner#2: "Maybe they are looking for the population centers?"
Forerunner: "they arrived on our night side, any idiot could look out a window and see the cites from orbit
Forerunner#2: "Maybe we should scan our planet:"
*all drones on the planet begin to scan*
Forerunner: "Why is 50%+ of our planet covered in this green sludge gak thats eatting people?
Forerunner#2:"I have no idea, Lets ring up the Lib"
*ring ring*
Forerunner#2: "Hello Lib, there is this wierd Green like sludge on our planet thats eatting people and the humans arrived and are trying to burn it away"
Lib: "send me the scans"
* and in the 5 minutes that followed the Forerunners realised what the humans were doing and so the flood threat had ended*

Yes, Ancient Humanity was stupid and should have warned the Forerunners, still the Flood was rampaging across all the Human Empire and they were infesting entire planets in matter of hours, according to some (the Librarian) The Flood could have infested the rest of the galaxy and steamrolled the galaxy in matter of years if it had wanted it.

The Flood is incredibly virulent, can use tech and even improve it, plus they also are a reality warping disease, they are practically Necromorphs but with less gore and with more magic.

When do they warp reality or improve tech? The Flood die to fire really easily and you could just sit in orbit and bombard them until they are gone

They improved the In Amber Clad's slipspace drive to make a pinpoint jump inside High Charity. Normal human drives were incapable of making precise jumps inside a solar system, much less inside another ship.

As for the orbital bombardment option, yeah that is the way to go, sadly the IoM always uses it as a last option, giving the Flood time to infiltrate civilian ships and propagate to another systems.

I don't consider game mechanics a valid source.

Halo on heroic is considered cannon strength of weapons/abilites/equipment/ people according to the halo designers and authors, (one of the books has the 19 mph MBT and 200M max range Assault rifle, i forgot which one it is though)

It is considered cannon to determine the strength of weapons over shields, nothing else as, for example, the banshee in both books and cutscenes is far faster than the gameplay banshee.

The Covenant sucks on the ground and fare badly without orbital support, still the only ground combat in the war was for the rare Forerunner relic, most of the time the Covenant happily glassed the UNSC from orbit.

Every Battle with the humans had a ground war portion, Harvest, Reach, Earth, Halo wars part

Harvest: there was Forerunner relics
Reach: more Forerunner relics
Earth: a giant portal to the Ark
Halo wars: There was always a Forerunner relic in the planet in question, plus a Shield World.

In the ground, sure. Hmm... how it is the Helghast space combat? Because it doesn't matter that you can win on the ground vs the Covenant when they can burn you from orbit.

Helghast ship abilites
Energy shielding
Terracide weapons (using a nuclear device on Irradiated petrusite) they haven;t used this ability agian because there are only like 6 earth like planets (breathable atmosphere) that they know of (vekta, helgahn, Earth, Mars, and 2 others)

A Covenant fleet can melt the surface of a planet, and the UNSC has a petaton nuke, your point?

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I don't think the Helghast would do it. Bullets fare poorly against personal shielding. In addition, the Covenant has some nice tech that can burn through all sorts of metal unless the Helghast equip their ships with shields too.

Covenant Personal shields get droped after being hit by 2 rounds from the DMR (7.62x51 mm modern equivalent) Helghast person shield.. take a lot more to drop them. In killzone shadowfall helghast snipers are equiped with personal teleports that will move around the field to try and get a better shot at you.

From the Killzone 2 Trailer it seems that the cartridges the ISA and helghast use are Sabot rounds, which would allow the bullet to reach a higher velocity then standard round.

Also Helghast have energy weapons that make Covenant energy weapons look like crap.
STA-5X Arc cannon, Vaporizes the target
The production model in Killzone shadowfall is the PNV-06 Petrusite cannon

And the Covenant Wraith in one of the books creates a 40 meter large blast were flesh, bone and armor are vaporized. Whatever is outside of the plasma blast is killed by either the thermal or the kinetic wave. Also the Wraith is capable of tanking its own shot (but no 2). Again your point?

 Tyran wrote:

I wouldn't call a weapon that can disintegrate a Hunter from head to toe a terrible weapon, plus Forerunners combat doctrine is a combination of cheap expendable fodder and powerful heavy weapons that can bitchslap a Titan.

You mean heavy weapons that couldn't penetrate the Shields on the UNSC infinity? shields that are utter gak compaired to 40k shields?

Technically Precursors and Flood is the same, just different versions.

Flood are still weak,

Yes, Ancient Humanity was stupid and should have warned the Forerunners, still the Flood was rampaging across all the Human Empire and they were infesting entire planets in matter of hours, according to some (the Librarian) The Flood could have infested the rest of the galaxy and steamrolled the galaxy in matter of years if it had wanted it.

Hours? for a planet? years for the galaxy?

Forerunner-human war was 110,000 BCE, the humans attacked forerunner planets because of the flood
The Flood forerunner war start 98,000 ish 12,000 years after first contact. that is really really freaking slow.

They improved the In Amber Clad's slipspace drive to make a pinpoint jump inside High Charity. Normal human drives were incapable of making precise jumps inside a solar system, much less inside another ship.
As for the orbital bombardment option, yeah that is the way to go, sadly the IoM always uses it as a last option, giving the Flood time to infiltrate civilian ships and propagate to another systems.

Going by Halo 4 human slipspace jumping is very accurate, being able to jump from earth to requiem, and planing on coming out in the center of a Storm Covenant fleet.

By all means let the flood infect a Civilian ship, once the Navigator is dead how does said ship plan on getting to the next planet? Also this is the IOM, They would view the flood as a Nurgle infestation and would probably destory the planet from the get go and shoot any civilian that trys to escape it.




These guys arrive and just blow the planet away just because of the possibility of Chaos

It is considered cannon to determine the strength of weapons over shields, nothing else as, for example, the banshee in both books and cutscenes is far faster than the gameplay banshee.

In game usable banshees = Type 26 ground attack
Fast custscene Banshees/The ones you fight in space in Halo reach = Type 27 Exoatmospheric Multi-role Fighter

Harvest: there was Forerunner relics
Reach: more Forerunner relics
Earth: a giant portal to the Ark
Halo wars: There was always a Forerunner relic in the planet in question, plus a Shield World.

So why bother with the surface ground war when you can burn everything that isnt forerunner away?

[

A Covenant fleet can melt the surface of a planet, and the UNSC has a petaton nuke, your point?

Your right they can melt the surface of a planet.. very slowly over the period of a few days to a few weeks. Helghast (sev and rico) did it in 10 seconds
Unsc had 1 Nova bomb and its gone

And the Covenant Wraith in one of the books creates a 40 meter large blast were flesh, bone and armor are vaporized. Whatever is outside of the plasma blast is killed by either the thermal or the kinetic wave. Also the Wraith is capable of tanking its own shot (but no 2). Again your point?

The wraith is that hover tank that moves faster than its projectile. yeah i think anyone seeing that coming down would just walk/jog out the way. I would rather take an infantry hand held weapon that can vaporize organic targets rather quickly.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

I wouldn't call a weapon that can disintegrate a Hunter from head to toe a terrible weapon, plus Forerunners combat doctrine is a combination of cheap expendable fodder and powerful heavy weapons that can bitchslap a Titan.

You mean heavy weapons that couldn't penetrate the Shields on the UNSC infinity? shields that are utter gak compaired to 40k shields?

The Infinity can't come close to the Mantle's Approach because its Particle Guns will disintegrate her just like they have been disintegrating the UNSC Fleet send to intercept the MA.
And the Particle Cannons are nothing more than the quaternary AA weapon system of the Mantle's Approach.

Technically Precursors and Flood is the same, just different versions.

Flood are still weak,

Yes, Ancient Humanity was stupid and should have warned the Forerunners, still the Flood was rampaging across all the Human Empire and they were infesting entire planets in matter of hours, according to some (the Librarian) The Flood could have infested the rest of the galaxy and steamrolled the galaxy in matter of years if it had wanted it.

Hours? for a planet? years for the galaxy?

Forerunner-human war was 110,000 BCE, the humans attacked forerunner planets because of the flood
The Flood forerunner war start 98,000 ish 12,000 years after first contact. that is really really freaking slow.

That's because the Flood "mysteriously" retreated back to the intergalactic void after the Forerunners started attacking the Humans, hence I write 'if it had wanted it.'

They improved the In Amber Clad's slipspace drive to make a pinpoint jump inside High Charity. Normal human drives were incapable of making precise jumps inside a solar system, much less inside another ship.
As for the orbital bombardment option, yeah that is the way to go, sadly the IoM always uses it as a last option, giving the Flood time to infiltrate civilian ships and propagate to another systems.

Going by Halo 4 human slipspace jumping is very accurate, being able to jump from earth to requiem, and planing on coming out in the center of a Storm Covenant fleet.

That is because post-war vessels have been upgraded with Covenant drives, and the Infinity even has a Forerunner slipspace drive.

By all means let the flood infect a Civilian ship, once the Navigator is dead how does said ship plan on getting to the next planet?

By infecting him/her like they do to everything.

Also this is the IOM, They would view the flood as a Nurgle infestation and would probably destory the planet from the get go and shoot any civilian that trys to escape it.




These guys arrive and just blow the planet away just because of the possibility of Chaos

And I'm supposed to be impressed? the Forerunners were blowing up entire solar systems and that didn't stop the Flood, by the time the not very punctual Imperial Navy arrives to the planet it would have been lost long ago

It is considered cannon to determine the strength of weapons over shields, nothing else as, for example, the banshee in both books and cutscenes is far faster than the gameplay banshee.

In game usable banshees = Type 26 ground attack
Fast custscene Banshees/The ones you fight in space in Halo reach = Type 27 Exoatmospheric Multi-role Fighter

The banshees in the cutscenes don't match the Type 27 design, they match the Type 26 design.

Harvest: there was Forerunner relics
Reach: more Forerunner relics
Earth: a giant portal to the Ark
Halo wars: There was always a Forerunner relic in the planet in question, plus a Shield World.

So why bother with the surface ground war when you can burn everything that isnt forerunner away?
They did that to most Human planets, and they also did that to most planets with Forerunner relics, most of Harvest and Reach was burned except the areas near the relics.

[

A Covenant fleet can melt the surface of a planet, and the UNSC has a petaton nuke, your point?

Your right they can melt the surface of a planet.. very slowly over the period of a few days to a few weeks. Helghast (sev and rico) did it in 10 seconds
Unsc had 1 Nova bomb and its gone

NOVAs aren't cheap, but the UNSC has more that one, Cortana actually requested the deployment of a NOVA on the installation 05.

 Tyran wrote:
I
The Infinity can't come close to the Mantle's Approach because its Particle Guns will disintegrate her just like they have been disintegrating the UNSC Fleet send to intercept the MA.
And the Particle Cannons are nothing more than the quaternary AA weapon system of the Mantle's Approach.

Seeing in halo 4 that they (infinity) say they will do their best to hold off Didact's ship and at the end of it they appear with no damage means that the Didacts ships had horrible weapons. Plus the infinity was able to punch a hole in the Didact's ship with 2 mac rounds (The calcs for such are well below 40k ship based weapons)

That's because the Flood "mysteriously" retreated back to the intergalactic void after the Forerunners started attacking the Humans, hence I write 'if it had wanted it.'

So then the libarian was full of gak then, the only reason it took so long is because the flood is very slow. Also the Halo novels said that the flood stoped attacking the humans because they deserved the mantle and instead went to kill the forerunners who stole the mantle. So why would they wait 12k years when they could of steam rolled them in a year.

That is because post-war vessels have been upgraded with Covenant drives, and the Infinity even has a Forerunner slipspace drive.

Still the point being that the flood didn't improve the Slip space drive because they had no tools to manufacture a new one or remake the one that was aboard the In Amber clad, they just jumped the thing into High charity.

By infecting him/her like they do to everything.

And then what? with no ability to access the warp the ship will be stuck using sublights or until it passes near an Imperial sector and said sector's fleet blows it away because its not where it belongs.

And I'm supposed to be impressed? the Forerunners were blowing up entire solar systems and that didn't stop the Flood, by the time the not very punctual Imperial Navy arrives to the planet it would have been lost long ago

The point being is that the imperium shows up and blows a planet away if it has an infestation on it, unless there is something valuable on said planet.

The banshees in the cutscenes don't match the Type 27 design, they match the Type 26 design.

-■In the opening cutscene of Halo 2, several Banshees are seen flying in space near High Charity. While they would need to be Banshee Interceptors in order to operate in space, they appear identical to normal Banshees. It is possible that they are more advanced version of the Interceptors or that the pilots are Sangheili Rangers. However, the most likely explanation is that Banshee Interceptors had not yet been conceived by Bungie. - from the halo wiki

They did that to most Human planets, and they also did that to most planets with Forerunner relics, most of Harvest and Reach was burned except the areas near the relics.

After they sent hundreds of thousands of troops down to the surface for no reason.

NOVAs aren't cheap, but the UNSC has more that one, Cortana actually requested the deployment of a NOVA on the installation 05.

she requested one but it was never delivered... the UNSC desided to not deliever a NOVA bomb to a location that could kill all sentient life in this section of the galaxy.
That probably ment that they had none left.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
I
The Infinity can't come close to the Mantle's Approach because its Particle Guns will disintegrate her just like they have been disintegrating the UNSC Fleet send to intercept the MA.
And the Particle Cannons are nothing more than the quaternary AA weapon system of the Mantle's Approach.

Seeing in halo 4 that they (infinity) say they will do their best to hold off Didact's ship and at the end of it they appear with no damage means that the Didacts ships had horrible weapons. Plus the infinity was able to punch a hole in the Didact's ship with 2 mac rounds (The calcs for such are well below 40k ship based weapons)

The Infinity's cannons don't look like any other Mac (they seemed to fire a beam instead of a round) and that ship is so heavily modified that we have no idea of the strength of her weapons. And really, the only thing the Infinity does is jump close to fire after Master Chief deactivates 4 Particle Cannons and then gets away, meanwhile the Mantle's Approach is annihilating the UNSC fleet by itself, while controlled by only one crazy guy.

That's because the Flood "mysteriously" retreated back to the intergalactic void after the Forerunners started attacking the Humans, hence I write 'if it had wanted it.'

So then the libarian was full of gak then, the only reason it took so long is because the flood is very slow. Also the Halo novels said that the flood stoped attacking the humans because they deserved the mantle and instead went to kill the forerunners who stole the mantle. So why would they wait 12k years when they could of steam rolled them in a year.

To troll the Forerunners with the idea of a cure, the Flood not only wanted to destroy the Forerunners but also to destroy their ideals.
After the end of the Forerunner-Human war the Flood didn't reentered the galaxy until 300 years before the capital strike against the Ecumeme, and even then it was only minor skirmishes in the galactic border. It was only after the corruption of Mendicant Bias and the destruction of the Capital that the Flood really started attacking the Forerunners.

That is because post-war vessels have been upgraded with Covenant drives, and the Infinity even has a Forerunner slipspace drive.

Still the point being that the flood didn't improve the Slip space drive because they had no tools to manufacture a new one or remake the one that was aboard the In Amber clad, they just jumped the thing into High charity.

The In Amber Clad didn't have those upgrades, it had a normal pre-war slipspace drive.

By infecting him/her like they do to everything.

And then what? with no ability to access the warp the ship will be stuck using sublights or until it passes near an Imperial sector and said sector's fleet blows it away because its not where it belongs.

The ship would still have its warp drive and the Flood can use the now infected Navigator to navigate the ship.

And I'm supposed to be impressed? the Forerunners were blowing up entire solar systems and that didn't stop the Flood, by the time the not very punctual Imperial Navy arrives to the planet it would have been lost long ago

The point being is that the imperium shows up and blows a planet away if it has an infestation on it, unless there is something valuable on said planet.

The banshees in the cutscenes don't match the Type 27 design, they match the Type 26 design.

-■In the opening cutscene of Halo 2, several Banshees are seen flying in space near High Charity. While they would need to be Banshee Interceptors in order to operate in space, they appear identical to normal Banshees. It is possible that they are more advanced version of the Interceptors or that the pilots are Sangheili Rangers. However, the most likely explanation is that Banshee Interceptors had not yet been conceived by Bungie. - from the halo wiki

I was speaking of the opening cutscene of Halo 4 and the Delivering Hope video.

They did that to most Human planets, and they also did that to most planets with Forerunner relics, most of Harvest and Reach was burned except the areas near the relics.

After they sent hundreds of thousands of troops down to the surface for no reason.

NOVAs aren't cheap, but the UNSC has more that one, Cortana actually requested the deployment of a NOVA on the installation 05.

she requested one but it was never delivered... the UNSC desided to not deliever a NOVA bomb to a location that could kill all sentient life in this section of the galaxy.
That probably ment that they had none left.

Or maybe because the UNSC couldn't deliver a NOVA to a place several hundred light years away. The Covenant Slipspace was far faster than the UNSC one back then.

Covenant Shields range in durability depending on rank. A higher ranking elite can take four 14.5 mm sabot rounds to the head before going down and minor elites can take about 16 rounds from a 7.62 assault rifles. The standard issue StA-52 assault rifle fires a weaker 5.56 cartridge. In fact, the standard issue MA5D assault rifle UNSC side has larger rounds than either faction's (ISA/Helghast) main weapon. BTW, I checked those videos and read the wiki and Killzone weapons do not fire Sabot rounds. So, let's just assume for now that a StA-52 is about as good as a MA5D for taking guys down.

Plasma weapons would go right through Helghast armor since they are only good against low caliber weapons (According to the wiki. I would also infer that from the trailers too). It looks like they are more lightly armored than UNSC marines are since Marine BDUs are actually resilient towards modern rounds. Note I am just referencing the wikis so this could be off but try shooting at marines in the chest with your firearms. They don't go down that easy without headshots. So I'd argue that the UNSC marines would do well against the Helghast since they have a bigger round and heavier armor.

And the Covenant has their own equivalent to the StA-5X Arc Cannon: The Fuel Rod gun which can down even spartans in one or two shots. And even lowly grunts (lol puns) have those.

As for the "Flood can't win because they'd be exterminated" I'd disagree with that since this is the Imperium we are talking about. The same Imperium that loses planets just because of a administrative error. Sure, if the Imperium would just bomb the crap out of the infection before it could spread then the Flood would end right there. But if they are just a month or two too late... well, I believe there was a graphic novel written about how the flood can take over ships.

This thread has made me realise just how nerdy we all are. Never fully realised it before.

Carry on.

I think Necromorph are too much like Zombie Tyranids, really. Don't get me wrong, I love Dead Space, and I'm not saying that Tyranids are the most original sci-fi aliens ever written, but they would take up the same niche if they both existed in the same universe.

You massively underestimate the Flood. Both the UNSC and the Covenant fight much better in fluff than in game (it's the same principle as 40k, really; what's fun in the game and what works in the story aren't really the same thing, see this thread), and we never see proper military actions by either in any of the games. Also, the Scorpion tank is built for quantity, not quality, and it's battlefield role is more similar to Terminators (bullying units that are not designed to take it out, but faltering quickly against any kind of anti-armour).

It's also not true that the UNSC "can't" beat them in space and the Covenant "can't" beat them on the ground. It's just that things can go that way a lot of the time.

EDIT: Woah, a whole page happened. All I want to say is that the Flood aren't easy. If something can do something, the Flood can do it. That's the problem that the Forerunner had - Flood Combat Forms were using the very same armour and weapons that their own infantry used, while simultaneously being tougher and controlled by a single intelligence. Any technology held by the host race will be taken and used by the Flood. That, and their intelligence, is what makes them more dangerous than just space zombies.

EDIT 2: Silly Deadshot. You should have known!

EDIT 3: Raiden as of MGRR. Eldar Autarchs wish they were that cool.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:




EDIT: Woah, a whole page happened. All I want to say is that the Flood aren't easy. If something can do something, the Flood can do it. That's the problem that the Forerunner had - Flood Combat Forms were using the very same armour and weapons that their own infantry used, while simultaneously being tougher and controlled by a single intelligence. Any technology held by the host race will be taken and used by the Flood. That, and their intelligence, is what makes them more dangerous than just space zombies.

And their space magic abilities (Star Roads, Logic Plague, Keyminds, plus the standard rapping of both thermodynamics and the law of conservation of mass and energy).

I find it hilarious that the Forerunners, previously the "The Ancient Ones With Superawesome Megatech That Was Basically Magic" of the Halo verse, when looking at anything that is Precursor/Flood they have a moment of: "goddammit that doesn't make any sense, fething space magic!"

Which is basically the same reaction the Necrontyr had to the Eldar.

The interex from the HH books.

 Tyran wrote:

The Infinity's cannons don't look like any other Mac (they seemed to fire a beam instead of a round) and that ship is so heavily modified that we have no idea of the strength of her weapons. And really, the only thing the Infinity does is jump close to fire after Master Chief deactivates 4 Particle Cannons and then gets away, meanwhile the Mantle's Approach is annihilating the UNSC fleet by itself, while controlled by only one crazy guy.

so you send your fleets to stop it but not the Big brand new ship that has Loads of Forerunner tech inside of it. I'm glad the UNSC values the survival of the human species so much

To troll the Forerunners with the idea of a cure, the Flood not only wanted to destroy the Forerunners but also to destroy their ideals.
After the end of the Forerunner-Human war the Flood didn't reentered the galaxy until 300 years before the capital strike against the Ecumeme, and even then it was only minor skirmishes in the galactic border. It was only after the corruption of Mendicant Bias and the destruction of the Capital that the Flood really started attacking the Forerunners.

An Idea dies if everyone from that Race is dead. The Flood had no reason to withdraw when they could of killed every forerunner in a year and then left humanity to its own devices

Forerunner-human war ended in 110,000 bce and the flood forerunner war started in ~98,000 bce and ended in 97,000 bce. there are 12k years between the two,

The In Amber Clad didn't have those upgrades, it had a normal pre-war slipspace drive.

Point being that they just jumped into High charity, not with some new and improved drive

The ship would still have its warp drive and the Flood can use the now infected Navigator to navigate the ship.

So then the flood would use the psyker to access the warp and then be overrun with daemons because the flood has NO ability/training to protect their mind from the warp as a psyker.

I was speaking of the opening cutscene of Halo 4 and the Delivering Hope video.

Delivering hope techinically never happened, the Guy who throws the nuke at the end is the Spartan that you replace in the squad. However the Covenant hadn't arrived on reach until your character has replaced the squads previous memeber.

you are correct with the halo 4 intro, however they are still moving within the "84 mph" in game/manual speed thats listed

Or maybe because the UNSC couldn't deliver a NOVA to a place several hundred light years away. The Covenant Slipspace was far faster than the UNSC one back then.

so then why would cortana request something that could never be sent?

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Covenant Shields range in durability depending on rank. A higher ranking elite can take four 14.5 mm sabot rounds to the head before going down and minor elites can take about 16 rounds from a 7.62 assault rifles. The standard issue StA-52 assault rifle fires a weaker 5.56 cartridge. In fact, the standard issue MA5D assault rifle UNSC side has larger rounds than either faction's (ISA/Helghast) main weapon. BTW, I checked those videos and read the wiki and Killzone weapons do not fire Sabot rounds. So, let's just assume for now that a StA-52 is about as good as a MA5D for taking guys down.

Elite shields are droped by 2 DMR rounds or 15-18 MA5D rounds, elite shields are not that great




Sabot round

Sta 55/409 Keyzer (Helghast current standard issue)
5.56 x45 mm cartridge, same as what we use today except it has 350 years of refinement which means is probably has a higher velocity in their time
18-24 inch barrel
500-800m effective range

MA5D
7.62x51mm NATO cartridge
24+ inch barrel
200meter MAX range

M14 EBR
7.62x51mm NATO cartridge
18 inch barrel
500 meters effective range (ironsights)
800 meters + with optics

So for the halo verse in 500 years weapons went to complete gak?

I'll take the STA 55/409 over the MA5d any day of the week

Plasma weapons would go right through Helghast armor since they are only good against low caliber weapons (According to the wiki. I would also infer that from the trailers too). It looks like they are more lightly armored than UNSC marines are since Marine BDUs are actually resilient towards modern rounds. Note I am just referencing the wikis so this could be off but try shooting at marines in the chest with your firearms. They don't go down that easy without headshots. So I'd argue that the UNSC marines would do well against the Helghast since they have a bigger round and heavier armor.

UNSC marine armour only covers the chest, shoulders and comes with a helmet.

Helghast armour covers the entire body and has an internal breathing apparatus.

Helghast soldiers also have access to Active camouflage, Camouflage that can Copy the exact appearance of an enemy soldier, Personal Teleporters, Personal shields, deployable energy shield walls.

One society thinks that its medicore weapons are good enough to defend it.
Another society constantly develops military tech with the sole purpose of using it to kill of their enemies.

And the Covenant has their own equivalent to the StA-5X Arc Cannon: The Fuel Rod gun which can down even spartans in one or two shots. And even lowly grunts (lol puns) have those.

The fuel rod gun has the range advantage but thats not a large one when you can see the round coming and walk out of the way, Most of the covenant weapons are short ranged allowing the Helghast (or any modern military force) to engage them at range. (Also the higs see anything that isnt helghast as below them and won't be bothered by killing civilians (their own or civilian) or feel remorse at killing aliens)

As for the "Flood can't win because they'd be exterminated" I'd disagree with that since this is the Imperium we are talking about. The same Imperium that loses planets just because of a administrative error. Sure, if the Imperium would just bomb the crap out of the infection before it could spread then the Flood would end right there. But if they are just a month or two too late... well, I believe there was a graphic novel written about how the flood can take over ships.

If the Flood took a ship they would be stuck using its sublight engines (have fun spending the next thousand years moving to the next system.. that probably got nomed on by nids)

Frozen Ocean wrote:I think Necromorph are too much like Zombie Tyranids, really. Don't get me wrong, I love Dead Space, and I'm not saying that Tyranids are the most original sci-fi aliens ever written, but they would take up the same niche if they both existed in the same universe.

You massively underestimate the Flood. Both the UNSC and the Covenant fight much better in fluff than in game (it's the same principle as 40k, really; what's fun in the game and what works in the story aren't really the same thing, and we never see proper military actions by either in any of the games. Also, the Scorpion tank is built for quantity, not quality, and it's battlefield role is more similar to Terminators (bullying units that are not designed to take it out, but faltering quickly against any kind of anti-armour).

The Necromorphs have the advantage of driving their prey species insane to help them achive their goals. If Tzeentch, Nurgle, and the nids had a child it would be the necromorphs

UNSC in fluff are the Fether who though that putting all of your SPARTAN super soldiers on one ship to capture the covenant high command to sue for peace was a good idea. Apparently they missed their history
lesson about how ALL nations have back up chains of command if you kill their leader.........

However Ingame strengths of weapons/shields is the game set to heroic according to the authors and designers.

Faltering agianst anti-armour?
- can be destoryed by DMR (7.62x51mm rounds)
- exposed cockpit with crap armour
- 19 MPH

It's also not true that the UNSC "can't" beat them in space and the Covenant "can't" beat them on the ground. It's just that things can go that way a lot of the time.

except the UNSC wins most of the ground wars and loses most of the space battles

EDIT: Woah, a whole page happened. All I want to say is that the Flood aren't easy. If something can do something, the Flood can do it. That's the problem that the Forerunner had - Flood Combat Forms were using the very same armour and weapons that their own infantry used, while simultaneously being tougher and controlled by a single intelligence. Any technology held by the host race will be taken and used by the Flood. That, and their intelligence, is what makes them more dangerous than just space zombies.

And the Flood are easily defeated by any competent space race that actually watches its populations health, (or in case of the helghast, scans you to see if your full helghast and not a helghast/human halfbreed or human)

LOA could quick scan a Forerunner planet to see the flood but the people living on said planet never noticed it.

The flood were only a threat because the forerunners never advanced themselves or never developed 21st century equipment (during the SARS outbreak in china, the chinese government put thermal cameras everywhere in airports to see if anyone had above average temperatures, those who did were taken aside for testing)

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

The Infinity's cannons don't look like any other Mac (they seemed to fire a beam instead of a round) and that ship is so heavily modified that we have no idea of the strength of her weapons. And really, the only thing the Infinity does is jump close to fire after Master Chief deactivates 4 Particle Cannons and then gets away, meanwhile the Mantle's Approach is annihilating the UNSC fleet by itself, while controlled by only one crazy guy.

so you send your fleets to stop it but not the Big brand new sp that has Loads of Forerunner tech inside of it. I'm glad the UNSC values the survival of the human species so much
hi

It was vaporizing kilometer long ships with single shots, do you have an idea of the energy needed for that? One shot hits the Infinity and it is gone.

To troll the Forerunners with the idea of a cure, the Flood not only wanted to destroy the Forerunners but also to destroy their ideals.
After the end of the Forerunner-Human war the Flood didn't reentered the galaxy until 300 years before the capital strike against the Ecumeme, and even then it was only minor skirmishes in the galactic border. It was only after the corruption of Mendicant Bias and the destruction of the Capital that the Flood really started attacking the Forerunners.

An Idea dies if everyone from that Race is dead. The Flood had no reason to withdraw when they could of killed every forerunner in a year and then left humanity to its own devices

Forerunner-human war ended in 110,000 bce and the flood forerunner war started in ~98,000 bce and ended in 97,000 bce. there are 12k years between the two,

The Flood retreated, no one except the Flood knows the real reason.

The In Amber Clad didn't have those upgrades, it had a normal pre-war slipspace drive.

Point being that they just jumped into High charity, not with some new and improved drive

Something that the In Amber Clad shouldn't be capable of doing.

The ship would still have its warp drive and the Flood can use the now infected Navigator to navigate the ship.

So then the flood would use the psyker to access the warp and then be overrun with daemons because the flood has NO ability/training to protect their mind from the warp as a psyker.

The psyker had training, the Flood now has that training.

Or maybe because the UNSC couldn't deliver a NOVA to a place several hundred light years away. The Covenant Slipspace was far faster than the UNSC one back then.

so then why would cortana request something that could never be sent?

 Deadshot wrote:
This thread has made me realise just how nerdy we all are. Never fully realised it before.

Carry on.

These sorts of threads, as well as "versus" threads, will do that to you. It's why I try to avoid serious participation in them.

 Tyran wrote:

It was vaporizing kilometer long ships with single shots, do you have an idea of the energy needed for that? One shot hits the Infinity and it is gone.

When did it destroy any UNSC ship? During the New pheonix incident the didact just fired the composer at New Pheonix, Casaulties are listed as Cortana and the population of new pheonix, no unsc ship was lost during that fight.

The Flood retreated, no one except the Flood knows the real reason.

So the super fast flood retreated when the people they wanted to kill/infect were weakened from war... right

Something that the In Amber Clad shouldn't be capable of doing.

Why? Earth slipspace has been pretty accurate throughout the events of halo 1-3 (4 with them getting forerunner engines) While the Distance they can travel isn't that grea the accuracy at which they can is pretty good.

The psyker had training, the Flood now has that training.

Except it doesnt work like that with the flood, if it did the the flood would of known the exact locations of every single covenant/human planet from the events of Halo Combat evolved

For vain hope mostly. But then the Covenant attacked Earth.

the Covenant attacked earth before the discovery of 05.

And that wouldn't help vs the Flood.

Agian it was just an example of what a society does when there is the possiblity of an outbreak, With all of the Tech that the forerunners had they were very lazy with it.

 Ninjacommando wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

It was vaporizing kilometer long ships with single shots, do you have an idea of the energy needed for that? One shot hits the Infinity and it is gone.

When did it destroy any UNSC ship? During the New pheonix incident the didact just fired the composer at New Pheonix, Casaulties are listed as Cortana and the population of new pheonix, no unsc ship was lost during that fight.

During the last level there are several UNSC ships flying around, the particle cannons are vaporizing them.

The Flood retreated, no one except the Flood knows the real reason.

So the super fast flood retreated when the people they wanted to kill/infect were weakened from war... right

They retreated giving the Forerunners the idea that the Humans have developed a cure, which led to humanity being devolved instead of being exterminated and political repercussions like the development of the Halos (an affront to the Forerunner ideals), and tensions between the Builders and the Warrior-Servants.

Something that the In Amber Clad shouldn't be capable of doing.

Why? Earth slipspace has been pretty accurate throughout the events of halo 1-3 (4 with them getting forerunner engines) While the Distance they can travel isn't that grea the accuracy at which they can is pretty good.

In the books UNSC slipspace was incredibly inaccurate, one of the main advantages the Covenant had over the UNSC was their ability of precise slipspace jumps.

The psyker had training, the Flood now has that training.

Except it doesnt work like that with the flood, if it did the the flood would of known the exact locations of every single covenant/human planet from the events of Halo Combat evolved

Oh look, the Flood extracting information of Keyes' head.

For vain hope mostly. But then the Covenant attacked Earth.

the Covenant attacked earth before the discovery of 05.

But then they attacked it again with a fleet a thousand times larger after the discovery of Halo 5.

And that wouldn't help vs the Flood.

Agian it was just an example of what a society does when there is the possiblity of an outbreak, With all of the Tech that the forerunners had they were very lazy with it.

It was Humanity fault that the Flood infection gained momentum, when the Forerunner where attacked the Flood already had human fleets. And even then the error of the humans was to use the Flood in their pets, because early Flood was only small inert organic dust that its only effect was to make animals more docile, and it stayed in that form for several centuries until one day it decided to become a zombie virus.

I don't see how the Necromorph "insane cult-worship" tactic is more effective than literally taking information directly from those who have it. Beyond the Feral stage, they become increasingly less reliant on host knowledge, having a store of information readily available to them.

For what it's worth, I do think that the "pet dust" thing was a bit silly as an origin for the greatest threat to life in the galaxy.

Also, I think we should stop talking about Halo vs Killzone (which is what I think Ninjacommando is trying to turn this into).

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
I don't see how the Necromorph "insane cult-worship" tactic is more effective than literally taking information directly from those who have it. Beyond the Feral stage, they become increasingly less reliant on host knowledge, having a store of information readily available to them.

For what it's worth, I do think that the "pet dust" thing was a bit silly as an origin for the greatest threat to life in the galaxy.

Also, I think we should stop talking about Halo vs Killzone (which is what I think Ninjacommando is trying to turn this into).

The "pet dust" thing helps to explain the way the Flood infiltrated Human society.

Well, about the thread, the Helghast, Covenant and UNSC in 40k get murdered the moment any of the main factions notice them.

The Forerunners have a WTF moment when they found themselves teleported to another galaxy, and if they end in current 40k then they beat the crap out of everybody except Chaos by sheer industrial output.

Flood, depends which version, the small outbreaks of the games would be hard pressed to find a place were they can expand, but the galaxy wide infestation at almost the end of the Forerunner-Flood war (before the Halo array fires) would be an unstoppable juggernaut of pain and destruction.

The Precursors have fun in 40k, half of their time they play at the good savages evolving from stone age to interstellar empires, sometimes maybe the want to be fish in some ocean world, and other times they are going to troll the 40k races by moving star systems around, the phrase "(I) Lost (the) Planet" gets a complete new meaning.

Do not use the word "rape" in that context. It is not funny.

Pray tell, how does the Flood spore travel from one planet to another if that planet is subject to Exterminatus and anyone who traveled to it is destroyed in transit to elsewhere?

@Ninjacommando

I did some research and it actually takes around 4-6 DMR rounds to drop an elite's shields depending on rank. Interestingly, the DMR and MA5D have the same cartridge and similiar muzzle velocity yet the effective range is different. I would guess it is because the DMR has a longer barrel and optics but it's still a little weird. Where do you get that the rifle has an effective range of 200 meters? The only hard number was around 300 meters.

I did some digging to see what the MA5 series rifle is based on and they appear to be SCAR-H's with a machine gun round. Just a little fun fact, no other relevancy.

So, the Killzone weaponry have Sabot rounds which means they have greater acceleration. They are still smaller rounds than what the MA5D has and mass is the other half of what makes up the force of a projectile. So I wouldn't say that the StA-55 is all that much more powerful than a MA5D at dropping Covvie shields if at all. Remember, Covenant shielding tech is notable for being able to resist ballistic weaponry. From small arms at least. Maybe the StA-55 has an advantage from the sheer amount of Dakka it can put out since Elite shielding isnt invincible. It's hard to say really since the exact data of these rounds aren't known.

Basic Helghast troopers have about as much coverage as a UNSC marine has. Its just that they have gear meant to resist the conditions of a hostile world. UNSC armor, at least wartime gear, is also much thicker and can actually resist rifle rounds like Helghast armor. That doesn't matter either way, though, since Covenant weaponry will chew through both. Also, the Covenant has personal active camo, gravity whells, deployable shield walls and energy shields. They even have gauntlets that can project an actual shield of energy for personal use.

As for engaging at range, Jackal snipers, Elites with Covenant Carbines, Phantoms, Banshees and Wraiths say hi. The thing about engaging the Covenant at range is that they are very good at closing the gap by using their zippy vehicles.

None of this neither here nor there, though. This is more about throwing something into the realm of Warhammer 40,000 so... as for the Covenant's performance, I'd say they can stand to most of the main factions but they'd be torn apart by wars of attrition. Necrons and Tyranids would give them the most trouble.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Do not use the word "rape" in that context. It is not funny.

Sorry, I edited it.