does he have any specific Legion markings sculpted on, or is he suitably generic anyone can use him?

mithril2098 wrote:
does he have any specific Legion markings sculpted on, or is he suitably generic anyone can use him?

He's meant to be generic, but definitely fits the IF best

muuum can I have some Blade Guard veterans.

We have Blade guard at home...

This is the vibe I am getting from that 40k looking model, its the tabard.

 GaroRobe wrote:

mithril2098 wrote:
does he have any specific Legion markings sculpted on, or is he suitably generic anyone can use him?

He's meant to be generic, but definitely fits the IF best

Agree - he 'feels' Templar-y:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sure hoping for something more than Solar Aux pre-pre-teaser

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Sure hoping for something more than Solar Aux pre-pre-teaser

How about a MKIII pre-teaser? After all we already got the pre-pre-teaser with that artwork a while back

 GaroRobe wrote:

mithril2098 wrote:
does he have any specific Legion markings sculpted on, or is he suitably generic anyone can use him?

He's meant to be generic, but definitely fits the IF best

The open neck is perfect for big beards, so he is clearly SW related.

 Matrindur wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Sure hoping for something more than Solar Aux pre-pre-teaser

How about a MKIII pre-teaser? After all we already got the pre-pre-teaser with that artwork a while back

Is it artwork? I thought it was the actual models with a fancy background. Isn’t that what forgeworld does in their books?

Plastic malcador or disapointment.
And before people claim that that is more tanks, yes, but we are talking about solar auxilia not marines.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Plastic malcador or disapointment.
And before people claim that that is more tanks, yes, but we are talking about solar auxilia not marines.

And one where it would make even more sense than Marines to do infantry first.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Plastic malcador or disapointment.
And before people claim that that is more tanks, yes, but we are talking about solar auxilia not marines.

And one where it would make even more sense than Marines to do infantry first.

obviously i expect standard infantry and command squad naturally.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Plastic malcador or disapointment.
And before people claim that that is more tanks, yes, but we are talking about solar auxilia not marines.

And one where it would make even more sense than Marines to do infantry first.

Or a nifty little army set...

 Kanluwen wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Plastic malcador or disapointment.
And before people claim that that is more tanks, yes, but we are talking about solar auxilia not marines.

And one where it would make even more sense than Marines to do infantry first.

Or a nifty little army set...

honestly when we got a spartan in the starter in AoD, i can see an box like command terrcio, 2 infantry tercios eg. 40-60 rifleman, malcador and if it comes in plastic the dracosn since it is based on the malcador chasis.

GW is prepping for next week, and the old MKIII kit has been delisted from the GW site. RiP to the best Space Marine kit.

We knew this was coming.

Deredeo's still up.

£27.50!

Every time I think about giving Forgeworld some more money...

 Golgotha wrote:
GW is prepping for next week, and the old MKIII kit has been delisted from the GW site. RiP to the best Space Marine kit.

Thanks for the heads-up. I thought there would still be plenty of time to get an extra box, but at least ebay had a few left.

Though I like how the new kit looks, it just isn't as brutal.

Deredeo! Deredeo! Deredeo!

Sing it with me, brothers!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Deredeo! Deredeo! Deredeo!

Sing it with me, brothers!

Deredeo Figaro, Fantastico!

Happy I snagged enough old MK3 heads but I wish I'd grabbed some more of their unhanded chainswords

Since the old kit is completely gone now it will be interesting how they will do the Legion specific forgeworld kits that use the old MKIII as base such as the Templar Brethren.

I would be surprised if the new MKIII are different than the MKVI and have a split legs/torso so you won't be able to use the resin kits with the new kit.
The question is whether they redo the resin kits so they fit the new MKIII or they just throw out half the kit like with the Contemptors and only sell the arms now

So new mk3 is finally happening. I wonder how long until new mk4, or new Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminators?
But most importantly, is everyone ready for the Heresy reveals to be nothing but shoulder pads and heads for the next few months?

GoatboyBeta wrote:
So new mk3 is finally happening. I wonder how long until new mk4, or new Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminators?
But most importantly, is everyone ready for the Heresy reveals to be nothing but shoulder pads and heads for the next few months?

Don't forget the resin weapons for all Legions

NOOOOO

The old MKIII kit was the only known GW bits source for Umbra Bolter magazines I know of. Now I will never be able to build more than a single tac squad, I'll run out of spare mag accessories..

EDIT: Found a bunch of those mags bits on ebay and bought 30 - get em while they last!

I wouldn't expect too much. I guess it's either another Cerastus Knight variant (remember the leaked Acheron sprue, so that can't be far away) or the rumoured new box with MkIII and the Deredeo.

 tauist wrote:
NOOOOO

The old MKIII kit was the only known GW bits source for Umbra Bolter magazines I know of. Now I will never be able to build more than a single tac squad, I'll run out of spare mag accessories..

EDIT: Found a bunch of those mags bits on ebay and bought 30 - get em while they last!

I've taken a quick look at that bit; if 3d printing isn't an option, are you familiar with Oyomaru? Because this looks like the ideal candidate for press-molding a bunch of copies using that (I've certainly reproduced far larger, more complex parts years ago). I'd recommend miliput rather than GS (just more malleable, works better for these purposes). Seeing how these things mount to the legs you could basically do a *one* sided Oyomaru mold and pressfit it straight onto the mini, in many cases.

 stahly wrote:
I wouldn't expect too much. I guess it's either another Cerastus Knight variant (remember the leaked Acheron sprue, so that can't be far away) or the rumoured new box with MkIII and the Deredeo.

They actually previewed the two other Knights, so they've acknowledged that they're coming.

I mean, at least it's new infantry rather than yet another tank. That's something to be happy about, right?

Deredeo is still in the shop

So it's probably not "the box"

Probably the pre-pre-announcement of Mk3 with one silhouette or if we are really lucky a rotation shot of one model and then 5 minutes of Troke having a stroke over how it's the best model ever

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Deredeo is still in the shop

So it's probably not "the box"

Probably the pre-pre-announcement of Mk3 with one silhouette or if we are really lucky a rotation shot of one model and then 5 minutes of Troke having a stroke over how it's the best model ever

Yes to the latter, coupled with some swooning over how great they will look painted as Dark Angels. But we've already seen how the Mk.III Marines look, so none of this pre-pre-nonsense or silhouettes. If we see Mk.III Marines, we'll see the full models, possibly get some info on weapon upgrade sprues for them and in the Warhammer Community post there will be a couple of slides showing off the five poses. We're past the teaser of a teaser point.

MkIII confirmed to use the existing weapon kits. Called it.

Also, a number of rivetless bolter hands in the kit.

Battlegroup box with 30 MkIII, Proteus, Dorito, and Special Weapons sprue.

Did anyone else catch that Deredeo is apparently pronounced "Dorito"? It wasn't just me... right?

What were the reveals for Heresy? I missed out on them.

Snake Fulgrim looks fething awesome though.

No mention of the mark 6 assault marines in the preview stream but they are explicitly mentioned in the end of the article on warcom, makes me wonder if they will be a heresy tuesday soon.

Snrub: mark 3 armour and deredeo dreadnought oh and daemon fulgrim.

I have to say, as someone who has just finished assembling a SoH army using the current Mk III Marines, the new ones are actually a lot better. And they are compatible with the assault and heavy weapon sets.

As someone with a ton of MKIII marines, I like the new ones but I feel like MKII & V woulda been a better release.

Fulgrim on the other hand, that's one beautiful model!!!

Maybe it's the paint scheme but I'm not really feeling the new Mk III. Something about them seems more subdued, less rivet-y

I'll take the deredeo though, that looks great.

Yeah, I feel the paint scheme isn't doing it any favours. That plus some of the helms without the grille look weird.

Fulgrim really stole the show though for HH. Looks soooo much better than his non-DP version.

40k is going to have a tough time beating that when he inevitably shows up as a plastic kit for EC.

Sorry not going to touch that Fulgrim model with a ten foot pole, those wings will snap like biscuits.

Got baited by Fulgrim so hard. Thought he was 40K until they showed the HH logo.

 Rolsheen wrote:
Sorry not going to touch that Fulgrim model with a ten foot pole, those wings will snap like biscuits.

He's probably been designed just for HH like this so they can eventually release a smaller version for Epic too.

Looking forward to seeing the other daemon primarchs get updated too

Those assault marines wer..... oh. Wait. : /

We really REALLY don't need a 4th box of tac squad! Yea yea, it replaces the existing one, but still... come on...

I actually really like the new MkIII armour. I’m not sure about the grill-less helmets but the half grill one is very cool.

I’m surprised by Daemon Fulgrim, I’m hoping 40k Emperors Children aren’t many years away, and I don’t see the plastic Fulgrim looking this good. Genuinely incredible model. Dread the price though.

 ImAGeek wrote:
I actually really like the new MkIII armour.

I like them except for the helmets and shoulder pads- I prefer the old styles there.

Just really hard getting together a jump pack heavy army without having to pay a lot for 5 resin dudes at a time.

Deredeo is a fine looking kit but is unsurprisigly only half a kit. There will no doubt have a 2nd ones sooner or later that includes the Falconet, the Lascannon battery and the Boreas missiles. and maybe even the Atomanic Pavaise




Anyway, still not super enthusiastic about the new MkIII. They just don't look right. Will of course reserve absolute final judgement for once i've seen the sprues, but if they're anything like the MkVI ones it'll be a mild disappointment.
Also not sure if it's been mentioned yet or not, but it looks like "upgrades" frame from the MkVI is just a generic fit-all for any future power armour kits. As they use the same power fist, bare heads, vox and vexilla on these new models. Hooray, we've compromised the aesthetic integrity of the heresy power armour Mk's for ease of kit reuseability.
As it is, i'll probably skip this kit and try and get my hands on a few more of the BoP kits.



New battle group box is nice way of expanding your force though. It combined with the AoD box gives you upwards of 2500pts depending on what upgrades you take. A solid start to any Heresy force.

I wouldn't call Sergeant arms and a few bare heads "compromising aesthetic integrity".
Headswaps are the most common conversion out there and nobody cares what arms a model uses.

 Platuan4th wrote:
MkIII confirmed to use the existing weapon kits. Called it.

Also, a number of rivetless bolter hands in the kit.

Battlegroup box with 30 MkIII, Proteus, Dorito, and Special Weapons sprue.

Are they... the same five poses as they had for the Corvuses? Hm.

Fulgrim looks cool. He also looks like they converted Morathi and called it a day. And yeah, those wings are not gonna stay unbroken for more than a hot minute.

I actually like the MKIII quite a bit, to the point where I'm contemplating on getting a box of them and kitbashing with the old MKIIi box bitz (using the old accessories, heads and shoulderpads on the new bodies, something like that?)

Disappointed by the Deredeo plastic version, it doesn't look like a 1:1 port of the resin one, but I'll get some anyway for the posability, maybe bash the best resin bitz on the plastic frame to get the best of both worlds

 Gert wrote:
I wouldn't call Sergeant arms and a few bare heads "compromising aesthetic integrity".

I would. Now all (and I'm preemptively assuming any MkII and redone MkIV kit will be the same) Mk's of power armour will have the same style of power fist. Same style of power sword. Same style of Lightning Claw. Same strange arm with a big knobbly elbow joint that has never been a thing previously. Where as before each Mk was distinct (less so Mk's II and III as they purposefully had shared elements.) in it's style.

Headswaps are the most common conversion out there and nobody cares what arms a model uses.

People will care. It's a noticeable thing.

You care. Meanwhile arms and heads been swapped decades

Fulgrim bloody rocks!

Honestly I'd have preferred some Mk2 but I don't think that's going to return.
It was never going to be Mk5 though. Waaaaaaay to many studs. People must give up on that dream.

That new box really gives the vibe of the Great Crusade.

Really keen for the Deredeo. Not personally fussed for MkIII as I’ve plenty MkVI I’m perfectly happy with. But it is good for the overall aesthetic of the game. Choice is good, even if I choose not to.

Fulgrim is gorgeous. Resin, yes, so not something I’ll ever buy. But a gorgeous model all the same.

Hopefully it won’t be long before the 40K version comes along,

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Fulgrim is gorgeous. Resin, yes, so not something I’ll ever buy. But a gorgeous model all the same.

Hopefully it won’t be long before the 40K version comes along,

I bet on the end of this edition with some Arcs like pointless books.

I’ve quite enjoyed the Ark and Psychic Awakening books myself.

If you’re going to have an advancing narrative (and we do, and even back around 2001 I was telling Portent “be careful what you wish for” there) then having the main story plod forward in dedicated command books, rather than stashed away in Codexes, including armies you don’t play, seems the better way.

But this is the Heresy thread so I’ll arrest my wibbling there!

Good stuff today

I'll probably pick up two of those boxes, I specifically avoided getting the plastic Proteus because it was on the speculated box cover and it paid off.

Genuinely surprised they're giving up on the knuckle rivets for the sake of special/heavy weapon cross compatibility, but it's better than the next 4 releases being marginally retooled upgrade sprues. Sad that the core Mk3 sprues are as barebones as Mk6 tho.

Yeah the box is mighty tempting. Wonder what price point it’ll come in at.

Oh, a thought... those Primaris Scouts will probably be too tall, right? Cause HH could use some Scouts...

Still don't understand why they are redoing mkiii instead of giving us plastic mkii or mkv. And the posing being the same limited 5 poses of the mkvi is another disapointment.

Still need three of the deredeo's. I also haven't picked up the new land raider yet so might just get that new box set.

Because MK III is more popular than II and easier to cast than V? Making the new poses match the MK VI also means the modular special weapons be reused.

I do wonder if there will be a MK III arm sprue for heavy weapons, and if the melee weapons coming out next year will be the same format of weapons sprue plus separate arm sprue.

Love love love the new MkIII Marines.

Poses are the same as the MkVI Corvus Marines so that the special and heavy weapon packs fit these as well (on the special weapon sprue, each gun is included five times and each fits a specific arm pair from the MkVI sprue, so the arms of the MkIII Marines have to match the exact same positions).

It also seems that the accessories sprue is the same as the one that came with the MkVI kit, as the vexilla, plume on the Sergeant, vox unit, and power fist all look to be the same.

Bit of a bummer, as I'd liked to have some variety, especially on the vexillas, but this means that each mark of armour will only need the production of a single new sprue, which hopefully allows them to crank out redesigns of MkIV and V sooner than later. Would be great to get at least one new mark of armour each year.

Now with MKIII on the table I cannot wait for the updated MKIV thus having both of my favourite HH armour marks updated.

Yay for embiggened Mk.III Marines! I hate the Dorito, but if the discount on the bundle box is good, and it happens to be in stock, I think I might just buy one.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh, a thought... those Primaris Scouts will probably be too tall, right? Cause HH could use some Scouts...

Hard to say. The modern HH marines are quite tall. If you have new plastic marines, the new primaris scouts will probably be a better match than the old scouts.

 Fayric wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Oh, a thought... those Primaris Scouts will probably be too tall, right? Cause HH could use some Scouts...

Hard to say. The modern HH marines are quite tall. If you have new plastic marines, the new primaris scouts will probably be a better match than the old scouts.

We already have Primaris Scouts for the Black Templars so I would look there for the size comparison with HH updated Firstborn.

 stahly wrote:
Love love love the new MkIII Marines.

Poses are the same as the MkVI Corvus Marines so that the special and heavy weapon packs fit these as well (on the special weapon sprue, each gun is included five times and each fits a specific arm pair from the MkVI sprue, so the arms of the MkIII Marines have to match the exact same positions).

I mean, then it only means the pose and size of the arms have to be the same, the distance from one side of the torso armour to the other doesn't change no matter what pose the legs are in. The body poses are the exact same (As opposed to similar but clearly different) because it was cheaper. They have disguised it a little by reversing the ratios of squatting to upright poses with uprights being the majority in this kit as opposed to the Mk6 where squatting marines carried the day.

Ascended Fulgrim is, fittingly, absolutely perfect, however I can't help but wonder how both versions of Fulgrim would look if their faces were swapped...it would definitely improve the 'regular' version.

Thank god I stocked up on the older MKIII, while I love the new proportions I'm not a fan of the new helmets at all

I hate that mk.III re-design. It's every bit as bad as the recent plastic mk. VI. I don't understand why they're deviating so much from the established designs.

tneva82 wrote:
You care. Meanwhile arms and heads been swapped decades

I’m someone who cares and I’m trying to break that lol. Especially since it’s not uncommon for marines to have different armor marks, different backpacks, etc. the forge world books are full of examples of ramshackle marines. I wish the chaos marines had less uniformity

The way they've limited everything to the same 5 poses just so the weapon upgrades will work across the 2 armour marks is really frustrating.

Billicus wrote:
The way they've limited everything to the same 5 poses just so the weapon upgrades will work across the 2 armour marks is really frustrating.

Especially since it didn't need to be the same poses. The arm-positions had to be the same so the weapons fit but the body could have been different. Even just having slightly different leg positions would have been fine so they don't just look like MKVI with a MKIII costume on top. But that is probably exactly what happened.

Deredeo : nice to see it make the transition to plastic

MkIII : not a fan of the new look or the "lazy" approach (same leg stances and sarge options as MkVI). I also
note that not a single MkIII has a bayonet, so I wonder if those bits are even included/compatible with the kit).

Best bit of the WarCom article is:

"This boxed set will arrive for pre-order sooner than you think"

So pre order in September possibly then?

Could be this weekend.

Aye, could be as early as announced the 3rd and pre order on the 10th for release on the 17th.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Could be this weekend.

I can quarantee no preorder this weekend but announcement could be. Wouldn't be first time something announced for preorder same week as previews were.

Fulgrim is simply glorious.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Good stuff today

I'll probably pick up two of those boxes, I specifically avoided getting the plastic Proteus because it was on the speculated box cover and it paid off.

Genuinely surprised they're giving up on the knuckle rivets for the sake of special/heavy weapon cross compatibility, but it's better than the next 4 releases being marginally retooled upgrade sprues. Sad that the core Mk3 sprues are as barebones as Mk6 tho.

Not that I was going to get the MkIII anyway, but you're right. If they had gone with dedicated upgrade sprues for each armor mark, it would probably mean another 3 or 4 years before all of them get released. This way they are all ready to go right now.

IMNSHO, MkVI is the bestest armor anyway, so I'll just stick with that.

 SgtEeveell wrote:


IMNSHO, MkVI is the bestest armor anyway, so I'll just stick with that.

Absolutely! The original and best. The new mark III bodies look cool though. I’m loving the inset skull at the waist. I’m planning on seeing if I can snag a single sprue from eBay. I really want to see what they look like with MkVI heads and shoulders/arms. See if they give something a bit more like that Wil Rees, chunky, brutal Rogue Trader illustration vibe.

 BertBert wrote:
Fulgrim is simply glorious.

Absolutely. Terrible shame about it being FW resin... I don't expect most of it to survive even light handling.

 Albertorius wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
Fulgrim is simply glorious.

Absolutely. Terrible shame about it being FW resin... I don't expect most of it to survive even light handling.

Yes, Fulgrim looks like an amazing display piece rather than a playing piece. I think it’s interesting that the first demon Primarch for HH is one that doesn’t have a 40K mini. I wonder how this will work for others. Will there be a HH demon Angron that’s different from the 40K one (and how many people will just use the 40K mini anyway)? How will 40K Fulgrim (it’s got to be a when, not an if) differ from this one? More monstrous? More mutated perhaps?

I can hear the Fulgrim model break every time I look at the picture.

I just think GW doesn’t think people actually play with these so makes them display pieces.
Very cool tho!

I think most people who are going to spend the money on centerpiece resin models are the type to take decent care of them, even while gaming. The ones who just 3D print scanned copies won't really care.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 BertBert wrote:
Fulgrim is simply glorious.

Absolutely. Terrible shame about it being FW resin... I don't expect most of it to survive even light handling.

Yes, Fulgrim looks like an amazing display piece rather than a playing piece. I think it’s interesting that the first demon Primarch for HH is one that doesn’t have a 40K mini. I wonder how this will work for others. Will there be a HH demon Angron that’s different from the 40K one (and how many people will just use the 40K mini anyway)? How will 40K Fulgrim (it’s got to be a when, not an if) differ from this one? More monstrous? More mutated perhaps?

I think it's notable that he's described as 'Fulgrim Transformed', rather than 'Fulgrim, Daemon Primarch of Slaanesh'. So, I'd expect 'Transformed' versions of the other Traitor Primarchs, as well as an eventual Daemon Primarch (10,000 years later) version of Fulgrim.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I think most people who are going to spend the money on centerpiece resin models are the type to take decent care of them, even while gaming. The ones who just 3D print scanned copies won't really care.

I have buy too much second hand forge world to agree with this.
Got almost all the tau air stuff second hand, and the amount of shoddy work I seen on some is crazy.
Like $1000+ model, person building must have just learned what glue was.

It’s crazy.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/01/forge-world-pre-orders-all-aboard-the-arvus-lighter/

Apple fox wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I think most people who are going to spend the money on centerpiece resin models are the type to take decent care of them, even while gaming. The ones who just 3D print scanned copies won't really care.

I have buy too much second hand forge world to agree with this.
Got almost all the tau air stuff second hand, and the amount of shoddy work I seen on some is crazy.
Like $1000+ model, person building must have just learned what glue was.

It’s crazy.

Yeah I’ve seen some of those YouTube model rescue videos. Like I get that everyone starts somewhere; my first ever Airfix Spitfire was a mess… but some people seem to start on expensive super-projects, get frustrated when they’re not instantly at the level of a master with a decade or two of experience under their belt, then just throw it away in n disgust (and/or spread malicious hyperbole about how terrible {thing} is).

 Mr_Rose wrote:
(and/or spread malicious hyperbole about how terrible {thing} is).

To be fair, it is terrible, that's why you need that decade or two of experience, to fix everything that comes fethed up out of the box.

I feel like people are stuck in the past with FW. There's this enduring idea that FW models are rubbish because they're resin when the resin from FW's early days isn't the same resin being used now.

Funnily enough, as mainline GW models have gotten better in quality so have FW ones.

People only complain about the pricing because they have this idea in their heads that FW models will definitely have defects and I can count on one hand the number of defective FW models my entire gaming group has received over the last decade.

I honestly believe that what people are seeing the most these days aren't genuine FW products but recasts.

have found with some of the stuff I had that you could generally tell the recasts as the quality was higher and less warping

mostly just looked like they hadn't been yanked from the mould too quickly

FW stuff defects I've had are invariably warped parts that have not been supported right as it cured

 Gert wrote:
I feel like people are stuck in the past with FW. There's this enduring idea that FW models are rubbish because they're resin when the resin from FW's early days isn't the same resin being used now.

Funnily enough, as mainline GW models have gotten better in quality so have FW ones.

People only complain about the pricing because they have this idea in their heads that FW models will definitely have defects and I can count on one hand the number of defective FW models my entire gaming group has received over the last decade.

I honestly believe that what people are seeing the most these days aren't genuine FW products but recasts.

I challenge your point about price complaints.

I don't think you have to have any particular opinion on casting quality to take exception to prices like 41€ or 50€ respectively for the latest two Imperial Fist Terminator characters. That's already silly GW prices as a base with Forge World tax on top and made up currency conversion thrown in for good measure. Might be easier to justify if you're in the UK and at least escape one of those things, but for me Forge World resin means 99% of the time I won't give the miniature the time of day before I even start to think about matters like shipping, stock issues or material quality.

 Geifer wrote:

 Gert wrote:
I feel like people are stuck in the past with FW. There's this enduring idea that FW models are rubbish because they're resin when the resin from FW's early days isn't the same resin being used now.

Funnily enough, as mainline GW models have gotten better in quality so have FW ones.

People only complain about the pricing because they have this idea in their heads that FW models will definitely have defects and I can count on one hand the number of defective FW models my entire gaming group has received over the last decade.

I honestly believe that what people are seeing the most these days aren't genuine FW products but recasts.

I challenge your point about price complaints.

I don't think you have to have any particular opinion on casting quality to take exception to prices like 41€ or 50€ respectively for the latest two Imperial Fist Terminator characters. That's already silly GW prices as a base with Forge World tax on top and made up currency conversion thrown in for good measure. Might be easier to justify if you're in the UK and at least escape one of those things, but for me Forge World resin means 99% of the time I won't give the miniature the time of day before I even start to think about matters like shipping, stock issues or material quality.

Nope, can confirm they seem pricey here too, albeit the gap between the FW price and a GW plastic terminator captain might be smaller maybe?

I don’t buy recast, if I want it I buy official even if second hand.

My worst one was direct from forgeworld, so can’t be recast. But I don’t have an issue working with resin minis, and even prefer it as a material.
I more just disappointed when I get a forge world mini and it was $20 more than a competition mini and at no point did they use a $1-2 to check if it was good enough.

Like missing a foot is something I expect to be seen ahead of boxing honestly for a single mini >.< why do mine always miss feet.

Dont know why i would have a arvus lighter transport.

Agreed that a lot of the hate towards FW resin comes from people who have either unknowingly purchased recasts on the second hand market (of which there are many), people who haven't purchased directly from FW in a decade or more (back when their casting could often be a bit iffy), or younger hobbyists who simply aren't used to working with resin.

Then you get the people who simply parrot what they hear other people saying.

These days, Forge World resin is both good quality and usually cast well.

It's hard to defend them on pricing though, especially in recent times.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skeleton wrote:
Dont know why i would have a arvus lighter transport.

Because you like the model?

I don't understand people who buy expensive models because of rules.

Edit: RE FW pricing, the Arvus lighter is £85, or approx 2.5 Imperial Fist Praetors. The individual HQ minis are way overpriced

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Agreed that a lot of the hate towards FW resin comes from people who have either unknowingly purchased recasts on the second hand market (of which there are many), people who haven't purchased directly from FW in a decade or more (back when their casting could often be a bit iffy), or younger hobbyists who simply aren't used to working with resin.

Then you get the people who simply parrot what they hear other people saying.

These days, Forge World resin is both good quality and usually cast well.

It's hard to defend them on pricing though, especially in recent times.

Last year i ordered a malcador.

Before that some years , i have ordered both R&H command and stubber teams, aswell as a decimator.

No. For the price they demand and the quality deliverd directly from FW. No, The stubbers to this day are still bent, the command squad and assault upgrade kit had the optional chaos star completly fethed, the autogun on the command squad had a broken muzzle, the malcador main body and i wanna say right side with tracks are horrendously bent, the Sponson also were fubar. Nvm that i still had to saw off the mold block on a 160 $ model, sans tarrifs.

And don't get me started on my decimators shoulder just don't.

Meanwhile i also ordered significantly from Anvil industry and kromlech. No bent parts. Clean for cheaper.

Meanwhile in a distance of 7 years i have not seen any quality increase in FW resin and casting justifying the price, which is one of the main reasons why i don't own lerna terminators for my 30k force despite loving their looks.

The Renegade and Heretics kits are not recent. At all.

RE the Malcador, large resin parts will be more prone to warping than smaller parts are. It's very easy to fix them with the hot water/cold water trick.

You haven't described the Decimator problem in any detail so I can't comment

yes, FW resin improved over time, yes the smaller models are better now than in the past

but also the rest of the market evolved over time and got better
making FW resin models still below average on the market, they have improved but everyone else as well

and what GW sells you for that price is just not acceptable

PS: and for recast, they are easy to spot as the quality is usually better
so it is rather the other way around, if you got good quality FW resin, chance is high you unkowingly purchased a recast

Forge World has gotten tons better in recent years. I have both a Fellblade and a Glaive from the original releases...both came with all kinds of warped parts and tool several hot baths followed by cold showers to sit straight. I have a small host of Vorax and Thallax that are about 90% perfect but had to rework the weapons (every single Photon Thruster was a warped mess).

More recently, the Esoterist Consul and the Vigilator were amazing pieces, with hardly any cleanup needed. The same is true of the new assassins...but damn those are fiddly kits.

I am super happy that the Deredeo is being released in plastic...those old one were just bad. I've got a pair of them, and those missle batteries were ROUGH.

 kodos wrote:
yes, FW resin improved over time, yes the smaller models are better now than in the past

but also the rest of the market evolved over time and got better
making FW resin models still below average on the market, they have improved but everyone else as well

and what GW sells you for that price is just not acceptable

PS: and for recast, they are easy to spot as the quality is usually better
so it is rather the other way around, if you got good quality FW resin, chance is high you unkowingly purchased a recast

LOL, yes, a copy of a copy is "usually" going to be better than the original

Having just bought the lotr diorama, the cast was flawless and the resin was so clean I didn't even bother to wash it. It's built and basecoated waiting in the painting line. Quality was excellent. Price, well that's always up to the individual.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
The Renegade and Heretics kits are not recent. At all.

RE the Malcador, large resin parts will be more prone to warping than smaller parts are. It's very easy to fix them with the hot water/cold water trick.

You haven't described the Decimator problem in any detail so I can't comment

That's my point. Regardless when i bought stuff from FW, the resin quality was always bad. And no a badly cut baseline side you are not fixing up with hot and cold water. Sorry.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
The Renegade and Heretics kits are not recent. At all.

RE the Malcador, large resin parts will be more prone to warping than smaller parts are. It's very easy to fix them with the hot water/cold water trick.

You haven't described the Decimator problem in any detail so I can't comment

That's my point. Regardless when i bought stuff from FW, the resin quality was always bad. And no a badly cut baseline side you are not fixing up with hot and cold water. Sorry.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick but I don't understand what you mean by 'a badly cut baseline side'.

A large resin piece that needs to be straightened is not 'bad'...it just needs to be straightened. It's the nature of larger resin components

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
The Renegade and Heretics kits are not recent. At all.

RE the Malcador, large resin parts will be more prone to warping than smaller parts are. It's very easy to fix them with the hot water/cold water trick.

You haven't described the Decimator problem in any detail so I can't comment

That's my point. Regardless when i bought stuff from FW, the resin quality was always bad. And no a badly cut baseline side you are not fixing up with hot and cold water. Sorry.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick but I don't understand what you mean by 'a badly cut baseline side'.

A large resin piece that needs to be straightened is not 'bad'...it just needs to be straightened. It's the nature of larger resin components

I think it's in reference to when the mould slips and you get an offset in the product which you either need to partially then resculpt or cut a chunk away to smooth it out?

 Gert wrote:
I honestly believe that what people are seeing the most these days aren't genuine FW products but recasts.

Or we got fed up a decade ago and haven't checked back since. But duly noted that it might now be worth it.

Dudeface wrote:


I think it's in reference to when the mould slips and you get an offset in the product which you either need to partially then resculpt or cut a chunk away to smooth it out?

Oh, okay. Any significant mold slips would need to be returned, sure, but I've not seen one on any of my FW purchases over the (many!) years.

No amount of improvement will have fixed the inherent shortcomings of the material. It's just something one has to accept when committing to a purchase. I won't be getting Fulgrim for this reason alone. That spear will invariably bend out of shape.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I think most people who are going to spend the money on centerpiece resin models are the type to take decent care of them, even while gaming. The ones who just 3D print scanned copies won't really care.

I believe you assume a bit too much.

Plus, with 3d printing you can use a bendable resin.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:
I feel like people are stuck in the past with FW. There's this enduring idea that FW models are rubbish because they're resin when the resin from FW's early days isn't the same resin being used now.

Funnily enough, as mainline GW models have gotten better in quality so have FW ones.

People only complain about the pricing because they have this idea in their heads that FW models will definitely have defects and I can count on one hand the number of defective FW models my entire gaming group has received over the last decade.

I honestly believe that what people are seeing the most these days aren't genuine FW products but recasts.

I've had on hand some of the small HH late figures. Other than now having layer lines, I can't say the resin felt any different when handling it.

Plus, the misalingment on the armigers was crazy.

I haven't bought a single FW item that had any serious issues on them. Sure enough, some flash here and there, and perhaps a few air bubbles on some of the details, thin straight pieces that are warped, but those have all been quite easy to correct.

But since I can only speak from my own experiences, YMMV

To me, the biggest issue is, GW owns their IP, and if I can haz a genuine GW product I like the look of, I will never settle for a "clone" or a proxy that is clearly made to represent it but cannot look 100% identical in fear of CND. The prices are absurd for both plastic and resin models by this stage, as long as I feel I can live with the pricetags I will keep on buying. Some people pay silly money for far more boring things (but I'm never buying a 28mil scale FW resinWarlord, thats taking things too far LOL)

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
LOL, yes, a copy of a copy is "usually" going to be better than the original

yeah, this is how bad FW resin actually is
that a 3rd party making a copy if it actually improves the model (mainly because they do all the modelling to correct the issues and than proper casting because a 3rd party cannot sell a bad model)

there is a reason why most HH players by China copies, not just because they are cheaper but also because they are better

Citation needed there big man.

 kodos wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
LOL, yes, a copy of a copy is "usually" going to be better than the original

yeah, this is how bad FW resin actually is
that a 3rd party making a copy if it actually improves the model (mainly because they do all the modelling to correct the issues and than proper casting because a 3rd party cannot sell a bad model)

there is a reason why most HH players by China copies, not just because they are cheaper but also because they are better

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that copies made of copies, usually by Chinese/Russian people working for very low pay, who are doing it purely for money, are better than Forge World originals?

You think that these people "do all the modelling" to make the sculpt better, because (presumably unlike FW), they "cannot sell a bad model"?

You actually believe this?

I remember having this exact same discussion with somebody else on Dakka, they told me that recasters resculpt the models before they cast them "to make the straight parts straighter".

He was just as daft as you

Thanks for giving me a good laugh

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that copies made of copies, usually by Chinese/Russian people working for very low pay, who are doing it purely for money, are better than Forge World originals?

Doesn't matter who believes what, that is the real life experience of many hobbyists.

As an aside, what do you think the minimum wagers at FW who do the casting work for? just the sheer gratifying joy of imagining how I'm trying to bang the 4 bananas they sent me into a straight Storm Eagle?

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
LOL, yes, a copy of a copy is "usually" going to be better than the original

yeah, this is how bad FW resin actually is
that a 3rd party making a copy if it actually improves the model (mainly because they do all the modelling to correct the issues and than proper casting because a 3rd party cannot sell a bad model)

there is a reason why most HH players by China copies, not just because they are cheaper but also because they are better

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that copies made of copies, usually by Chinese/Russian people working for very low pay, who are doing it purely for money, are better than Forge World originals?

You think that these people "do all the modelling" to make the sculpt better, because (presumably unlike FW), they "cannot sell a bad model"?

You actually believe this?

I remember having this exact same discussion with somebody else on Dakka, they told me that recasters resculpt the models before they cast them "to make the straight parts straighter".

He was just as daft as you

Thanks for giving me a good laugh

I mean I have seen it in person. The worst case was it was just as bad as the FW Original, the average was its better and the best case was it was miles better.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

Do you actually believe this?

You believe that copies made of copies, usually by Chinese/Russian people working for very low pay, who are doing it purely for money, are better than Forge World originals?

Doesn't matter who believes what, that is the real life experience of many hobbyists.

As an aside, what do you think the minimum wagers at FW who do the casting work for? just the sheer gratifying joy of imagining how I'm trying to bang the 4 bananas they sent me into a straight Storm Eagle?

The Storm Eagle was the worst kit to produce because of the design, rather than the casting quality. IIRC FW made some improvements to the kit at some point to make it easier to assemble. This isn't really relevant though? If somebody recasting a long, thin part then that same part will still be prone to warping because it's long and thin.

I do believe that someone who works for FW will, most likely, have a stronger attachment to the hobby than the average recaster in China, yeah, although I obviously can't provide any proof of that!

From my FW purchases:
Lotr minis in 28mm are easily on par with the best on the market like ArtelW.

I also got a quite recent DG Contemptor which I'd compare to Kromlech resin. Not perfect, but workable. Little work needs to be done.

I also got a Plague Hulk and Necrosius about... 12 years ago? They're not on that level. Detailing is still far superior to anything plastic can do to this day, but the resin is brittle, there are large mold blocks and there are some miscast areas. Also bending, those resin parts needed a lot of green stuff to fit on the plastic defiler Chassis.

Good to know about the LotR minis, TBH. I hope that newer stuff like that scrumptious bretonnian lady on unicorn is that good.

The price will still most probably make me cough blood, though.

Recaster absolutely can afford to sell bad quality. Their profit comes from cutting all the expenses and selling cheaper than fw ever could without running red.

Price is selling point. Recaster can"t afford to spenm resources resulting inw price increasn.

 Albertorius wrote:
The price will still most probably make me cough blood, though.

I think FW will accept that as payment TBF.

 Gert wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
The price will still most probably make me cough blood, though.

I think FW will accept that as payment TBF.

I hope not. They should save their blood and other bodily fluids for painting the model

tneva82 wrote:
Recaster absolutely can afford to sell bad quality. Their profit comes from cutting all the expenses and selling cheaper than fw ever could without running red.

Price is selling point. Recaster can"t afford to spenm resources resulting inw price increasn.

This is very obvious to anybody that has a basic understanding of how the casting process works, and what the motivation for recasters is.

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who refuse to accept it, regardless of the logic behind it.

I'm not going to try and convince anybody else, I've realised that these conversations are a bit pointless. People will believe what they will, logic and reason be damned.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I'm not going to try and convince anybody else, I've realised that these conversations are a bit pointless. People will believe what they will, logic and reason be damned.

You stated today that the business you like puts in high effort because they want to make money, and that the business you don't like puts in low effort because they want to make money.

The voice of logic and reason, everybody

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
I'm not going to try and convince anybody else, I've realised that these conversations are a bit pointless. People will believe what they will, logic and reason be damned.

You stated today that the business you like puts in high effort because they want to make money, and that the business you don't like puts in low effort because they want to make money.

The voice of logic and reason, everybody

Quote me where I said that

You can't, because You've just made it up.

I never once mentioned "high effort" from FW or "low effort" from anybody else.

I don't mind a genuine discussion, but you are embarrasing yourself

Edit: I also never said that I like or dislike any company. Are you high, dude?

This is nothing to do with companies that I like or dislike, it's about how a copy of a copy is not going to be better than the original

If you want to tell me why this statement is wrong, go ahead

you claimed that the low paid GW worker does his job with a passion
while the low paid chinese one does not

also recasters do not care about quality because they are cheap and they are making money by selling more

yet the logic does not apply because you are not selling more at a lower price if the models are bad
who wants to pay 50% of GW prices if you cannot use the models

and yes a lot of regular other companies have learned that lessons over time that "cheap" does not sell models in the long run if the quality is bad

and there is not a single recaster were people can buy, so if you are the one with bad quality, they by from someone else

those claims just tell me you never

 kodos wrote:
you claimed that the low paid GW worker does his job with a passion
while the low paid chinese one does not

What I said was "I do believe that someone who works for FW will, most likely, have a stronger attachment to the hobby than the average recaster in China, yeah, although I obviously can't provide any proof of that!"

Instead of you and Lord Blackfang putting words in my mouth, why don't you actually use the quote function? It has the feature of being way more accurate

 kodos wrote:
also recasters do not care about quality because they are cheap and they are making money by selling more

Show me where I said that "recasters don't care about the quality". Again, try using the quote function instead of warping my comments like a Storm Eagle side panel.
I implied that their main motivation was money, which is why they don't "re-model" or re-sculpt before they make every cast. Regardless, my whole argument was a copy isn't going to be better than the original, everything else is minor detail, IMHO

 kodos wrote:
yet the logic does not apply because you are not selling more at a lower price if the models are bad who wants to pay 50% of GW prices if you cannot use the models

Again, I never said they were bad, I refuted your ridiculous notion that usually copies are better than the original. How often am I going to have to repeat this? Also, stop it with the strawmen, it's tiresome

 kodos wrote:
and yes a lot of regular other companies have learned that lessons over time that "cheap" does not sell models in the long run if the quality is bad

and there is not a single recaster were people can buy, so if you are the one with bad quality, they by from someone else

those claims just tell me you never

Honestly, this last bit doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and the part that does is, once again, strawman argument.

Regardless, it's getting late, you're probably tired, I forgive you.

Can we get back to Horus Heresy News & Rumors please instead of the annual Forgeworld complaint marathon

Not really a news or rumor related thing, but the pre-orders for that new old flyer are up. Why does the GW instagram story say "Proof, that at last pigs can fly"?

Does Arvus mean pig in some language? Is it nicknamed the pig? Are the Solar Auxillia considered police?

Probably just alluding to the old "handles like a pig"/"Handles like a pig in gak" saying

tneva82 wrote:
Recaster absolutely can afford to sell bad quality. Their profit comes from cutting all the expenses and selling cheaper than fw ever could without running red.

Price is selling point. Recaster can"t afford to spenm resources resulting inw price increasn.

I would think that Forgeworld can’t afford to sell bad quality either, yet my naive forgeworld purchase of a MkIV dreadnought in my youth revealed to me a model straight from the designers that absolutely would not come close to fitting together.

There are absolutely recasters that are bad quality, worse than FW. But there is also cheap, good quality, potentially better than FW.

Lets get back to discussing the actual news and rumours for HH.

Exemplary Battles, Vol 1.

So..... Here's our new book. It features all the some of the Exemplary Battle stuff that we've been releasing as PDF but now you pay for it. And you get Fulgrims rules. And a new mission. And it's in book form. Money pls.

Revamped scenarios is nice and rules for the kinkier IIIrd Legion efficianados among you.
I'm interested to see the new rules for the Salamanders one because currently they're crap.

With a book this thick it could have been all of them with 100 pages to spare, not a random selection of 5 legions and no guarantee the ultra gakky units got fixed. What even is the rest of the book?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
What even is the rest of the book?

Pretty pictures?

Be nice if we knew what ‘special squads’ we’d get rules for, and whether or not they’re as pants-on-head dumb as the PDF iterations.

Most of that book will be lore and pictures, which is 100% cool in my books (hehe).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 morganfreeman wrote:
Be nice if we knew what ‘special squads’ we’d get rules for, and whether or not they’re as pants-on-head dumb as the PDF iterations.

Considering the article mentions the Salamander unit and shows the Nemesis Destroyers, its very likely going to be redoes of the current EB stuff.

Yeah I'm cool with it being mostly art, as long as it's good art. If it's just the same battle-scapes as they use on in the Libers/Rulebook, i'll pass. Some new stuff would be nice.

FWIW, page count of the 2022 PDF Exemplary Battles included in this book :

Defence of Sotha (10 pages)

Siege of Hydra Cordatus (14 pages)

Battle of Armatura (15 pages)

Battle of Calth (15 pages)

Give or take a couple of pages, that's about half the book.

Adding a new scenario and Fulgrim, some painting and kitbashing (hey, the WarCom article says so..), some art/diorama spreads..

The wording in the article leads me to think that we'll get the exact same formations as in the PDF, but updated (except Sallies) :

These represent storied or elite formations specific to their Legion, with updated rules for the new edition – and entirely new rules for the Salamanders Sanctifier Squads.

Maybe they will make the Atramentar not be completely overcosted trash now that we have to buy their rules.

Are there any new units or armies coming out for this, or is this game just a half hearted attempt?

When I got in, I jumped in with both feet after picking up a couple of board games that had the mini's.

When I read through the book, there were snippets of ideas, that had a lack of discussion. THEN, when I picked up my Hereticus book, I was even more disappointed when there wasn't anything about the demon attachments.


Somewhere along the line, other then Space marines, there was a divergence of discussion.


Or is it just me. There's a full compliment book out there with Plastics, cultists, Demons, Titans, etc.. somewhere?

I'm almost ready to start playing 2d edition again with these mini's, and as much as I like some of these lickies and chewies, the game's lacking in a vision of a direction forward.

Snrub wrote:Yeah I'm cool with it being mostly art, as long as it's good art. If it's just the same battle-scapes as they use on in the Libers/Rulebook, i'll pass. Some new stuff would be nice.

Well, the WC article does say

They’re accompanied by modelling, kitbashing, and painting guides to complete the look.

Looks like the kind of stuff they used to have in the codices, eons ago.

They do point out there are special rules and Rites for Corrupted Emperor's Children in the book as well. So not just Fulgrim and a new Mission for the EC and then reprints of those select special units.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Or is it just me. There's a full compliment book out there with Plastics, cultists, Demons, Titans, etc.. somewhere?

Rules for Mechanicum, Knights, Titans, Custodes, Sisters of Silence, Solar Auxilia, and Militia are all out and available.

For HH1 armies, all that is missing are Shattered Legions, Blackshields (both of which are Legion army themes), and Daemons of the Ruinstorm.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Are there any new units or armies coming out for this, or is this game just a half hearted attempt?

Salamanders Sanctifiers and Fulgrim Transfigured. Also corrupted Emperor's Children rites of war if you count that.

Updates to the exemplary battle units too.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Maybe they will make the Atramentar not be completely overcosted trash now that we have to buy their rules.

Don't jinx it!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Maybe they will make the Atramentar not be completely overcosted trash now that we have to buy their rules.

Don't jinx it!

litmus test ain't it.

Bit surprised that the existing EC vs WS exemplary battle (Kalium Gate) isn't included. Does this mean that Sunkillers are going to be printed separately another volume, or have they been put in here alongside the new exemplary battle and EC rules?

Fulgrim's release not being accompanied by the EC headlining an actual campaign book is a bit of a silly decision imo, though it may happen down the track. Very typical FW mixed bag release this.

Overall though absolutely ecstatic to be receiving later heresy EC rules, which is exactly how I want to play the legion - can't wait.

Bit annoying that this is totally different from the last supplement like GW can't even decide which horrible form of DLC treadmill to stick us on

I may pick it up, 3rd is my main so new ROWs for us,missions and fulgrim is enough for me to justify it at least.

Maybe cut out a few pages for mates who want their stuff.

Can't say I'm please about fulgrim being resin, those wings look super fragile. and it'll be the only deamon primarch in resin to... that's... annoying.

isn't the transformed fulgrim model being done by Forgeworld? i'd have been really surprised if it wasn't in resin given that. and it is in keeping with forgeworld's other HH primarch figures.

the other demon primarchs have been for 40K not HH, and thus could be more easily done in plastic.

I don't think we knew it was being done by FW previously. Due to the other primarchs I was under the assumption it would have been in plastic. Trends and all that. Besides which, you make a plastic demon primarch, it can easily be used for both systems. Same cost of production, more return.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Bit annoying that this is totally different from the last supplement like GW can't even decide which horrible form of DLC treadmill to stick us on

I would guess that this will be followed by another campaign book or another "Liber" book for the mystery army. These exemplary battles compendiums seem like a good "filler" release for GW to mine and exploit. Republish previously free content with some modifications and new editions, slap a $50-60 pricetag on it, and profit while the team is plugging away at the next thing.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Bit annoying that this is totally different from the last supplement like GW can't even decide which horrible form of DLC treadmill to stick us on

I would guess that this will be followed by another campaign book or another "Liber" book for the mystery army. These exemplary battles compendiums seem like a good "filler" release for GW to mine and exploit. Republish previously free content with some modifications and new editions, slap a $50-60 pricetag on it, and profit while the team is plugging away at the next thing.

especially since they've started with the older ones, where iirc the material was written for the 1.0 version of HH

Based off the cover, looks like Fulgrim comes with a weapon option (an additional sword instead of the spear we were shown in the preview).

cody.d. wrote:
I don't think we knew it was being done by FW previously. Due to the other primarchs I was under the assumption it would have been in plastic. Trends and all that. Besides which, you make a plastic demon primarch, it can easily be used for both systems. Same cost of production, more return.

They mentioned that it was FW in the reveal back at NOVA. And the HH 2.0 release calendar mentioned they were releasing a new resin primarch soon. It will be interesting to see if Magnus, Angron, and Mortarion get resin daemon primarch models, though maybe they'll be from super specific moments in the heresy, to add some variety.

 GaroRobe wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
I don't think we knew it was being done by FW previously. Due to the other primarchs I was under the assumption it would have been in plastic. Trends and all that. Besides which, you make a plastic demon primarch, it can easily be used for both systems. Same cost of production, more return.

They mentioned that it was FW in the reveal back at NOVA. And the HH 2.0 release calendar mentioned they were releasing a new resin primarch soon. It will be interesting to see if Magnus, Angron, and Mortarion get resin daemon primarch models, though maybe they'll be from super specific moments in the heresy, to add some variety.

I think from a previous article they already mentioned that they're going to be revisiting the primarchs, to show them at the height of the heresy when the fighting was fiercest for them.

 SgtEeveell wrote:

They’re accompanied by modelling, kitbashing, and painting guides to complete the look.

Looks like the kind of stuff they used to have in the codices, eons ago.

Ah, totally missed that. Well that's promising then I suppose. Guess it'll really come down to the price point then.

I'm happy for some corrupted EC alongside ascending Fulgrim. Kinda worried Sunkillers will somehow be lame....or lose the defense line as an option.

To a lesser extent, I'm hopeful my Salamanders get something other than "here are some combi-flamers" for the Adherents. I like the unit but they're just 40k Vets armed w same weapon...

drbored wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
I don't think we knew it was being done by FW previously. Due to the other primarchs I was under the assumption it would have been in plastic. Trends and all that. Besides which, you make a plastic demon primarch, it can easily be used for both systems. Same cost of production, more return.

They mentioned that it was FW in the reveal back at NOVA. And the HH 2.0 release calendar mentioned they were releasing a new resin primarch soon. It will be interesting to see if Magnus, Angron, and Mortarion get resin daemon primarch models, though maybe they'll be from super specific moments in the heresy, to add some variety.

I think from a previous article they already mentioned that they're going to be revisiting the primarchs, to show them at the height of the heresy when the fighting was fiercest for them.

yeah it'll proably be more then just the traitor ones too. Dorn is described using a sword and shield in seige of terra so I imagine Dorn'll get a varient with a sword and sheild, etc. it also gives FW an excuse to update some of the older minis that they feel have started to look "a touch dated"

cody.d. wrote:
I don't think we knew it was being done by FW previously. Due to the other primarchs I was under the assumption it would have been in plastic. Trends and all that. Besides which, you make a plastic demon primarch, it can easily be used for both systems. Same cost of production, more return.

They said it was resin on the stream where it was announced. We've always known it was FW.

Horus Ascended was also resin and this is the same range. It's not a 40k model.

GW don't want the Primarch models to be usable for both systems, they'd rather sell you two Primarch models, or indeed three in Fulgrim's case.

Yep, it was always Forgeworld, always resin. There was no indication at all that it would not be.

They flat out said FW release.

Roadmap also had Primarch listed on the Resin side of the chart, with new Armour Mark and New Dreadnought and more Lords of War as the plastic release

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Maybe they will make the Atramentar not be completely overcosted trash now that we have to buy their rules.

Don't jinx it!

Indeed. And also: Don't get my hopes up.

Though, I will admit, if they do fix the Atramentar in this book, I'll buy it. If they don't? I won't. No matter how good the additional material is.

There. "Voting with your wallet" personified. Ball is in your court, GW.

Racerguy180 wrote:
I'm happy for some corrupted EC alongside ascending Fulgrim. Kinda worried Sunkillers will somehow be lame....or lose the defense line as an option.

To a lesser extent, I'm hopeful my Salamanders get something other than "here are some combi-flamers" for the Adherents. I like the unit but they're just 40k Vets armed w same weapon...

I’m more worried the Sunkillers won’t be in the book, seeing as their exemplary battle isn’t even one of the included ones, as Marshal Loss pointed out.

Corrupted Knights Exemplary Battles.

Had a quick look through and they seem pretty neat. I like that these things are still getting added to start giving Traitors some flavoured allies like Loyalists.

 Snrub wrote:
Corrupted Knights Exemplary Battles.

Interesting article, especially this part:

In fact, it doesn’t even begin to become fully manifest until well into the Siege of Terra – a period of the civil war described in great detail in the Black Library novels, but not yet explored in the game.* It’s for that reason that the example Knights we show in the article aren’t the Chaos Knights you see in Warhammer 40,000, as they wouldn’t be displaying anything like that level of mutation for many years (in most cases millennia) to come.

Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but all corrupted stuff we see in the HH game(s) isn’t full blown Chaos. It might hint at more Ascended Traitor Primarchs and yes…a 40k version of Daemon Fulgrim (11th edition?).

Angron is the second Primarch to hit Daemonhood so the chances are he'll show up in an Exemplary Battles PDF or Compendium.
By the time GW reaches the Siege we will get Mortarion and possibly Magnus alongside rules to represent corrupted Death Guard.

I would like to point out that the actual descriptions for the various upgrades do have more detail that I would argue shows proper corruption I.E. weird fleshy growths and the such.

 Gert wrote:
Angron is the second Primarch to hit Daemonhood so the chances are he'll show up in an Exemplary Battles PDF or Compendium.
By the time GW reaches the Siege we will get Mortarion and possibly Magnus alongside rules to represent corrupted Death Guard.

I would like to point out that the actual descriptions for the various upgrades do have more detail that I would argue shows proper corruption I.E. weird fleshy growths and the such.

Plus an upgrade that's just the Abominant's tentacle weapon.

Very true. Regardless I'm pretty chuffed with this PDF and I'm already thinking about adding a Knight to my Sons of Horus who only have 11 models lol.

Hmmm....I like this. Knight Atropos with Rapturous Sensation for a Night Lords ally? Yessssss.

Expensive sidegrades mostly, but it's something.

Wow, they got me. I saw the House Vyronii emblem and the mention of Felweather and got excited.

Knights desperately need a boost in 30k. This is cool, but doesn't fix their inherent weakness.

Has anyone heard anything on a FAQ/Errata for HH2.0?

I would be surprised to see anything for a while.

From what I've seen from Necromunda and Titanicus, it seems that FAQ/Errata will come in the form of the next expansion book including rules to replace those found in previous publications
.

Nah it'll be a regular errata it'll just be ages because that's how Heresy rolls. Broken stuff for eons and no FAQs for years.

 Gert wrote:
Nah it'll be a regular errata it'll just be ages because that's how Heresy rolls. Broken stuff for eons and no FAQs for years.

That was old Heresy. This is supposed to be HH2.0... so... it should be different.

Traitor Legion Champion.





Holy gak do I need this guy! He's awesome.

Even if some people don't like the new MKIII at least it means we are getting non-MKVI characters again.
And it was worth waiting for this beauty.

That is one chunky boy. I must have him.

 Matrindur wrote:
Even if some people don't like the new MKIII at least it means we are getting non-MKVI characters again.
And it was worth waiting for this beauty.

Agreed! The MkVI was getting a touch stale.


I'd actually really like to see this model painted up as an Iron Warrior. I think it'd look really good in silver and hazard stripes.

So what makes this one a 'traitor legion' champion? Is it just the circles with three prongs and the belt buckle?

Pretty much just the Eye of Horus.

Depending on how the model is assembled, should be easy enough to scrape off. Or just paint it as an entirely metallic detail.

Either way, I want one!

I get that the eye of Horus may have been used to show loyalty to Horus, but I still feel like it’s pretty clearly meant to be from that legion. Just like the generic champion has strong IF vibes

Ultimately I'd argue this works well as a generic Champion. I could easily see this model as an Iron Hand or Imperial Fist for Loyalists and it would look superb for Death Guard and Iron Warriors.

I think I found my next Dreadwing consul. Just needs a headswap to one of the old upgrade heads.

It's not even the Eye of Horus, it's just a red eye, which mostly shows on Sons of Horus specific models but also, strangely, shows on Sanguinius.

Is Sanguinius also a traitor?

 Snrub wrote:
Traitor Legion Champion.



Holy gak do I need this guy! He's awesome.

Indeed he is. Artificer Mk.III the Brutalist way. Will look amazing in Death Guard colours.

Very nice!

Badass guy indeed.

Shame it's not in plastic :(

Was also really hoping for a release date for the box set shown at NOVA, guess it's more of a sunday announcement.

Not a fan, looks like a fairly basic 3rd party sculpt.

Could be worse. At least it's not Mk.VI.

Tittliewinks22 wrote:
Shame it's not in plastic :(

Was also really hoping for a release date for the box set shown at NOVA, guess it's more of a sunday announcement.

I think we're past the point of extra mentions. In the Nova article they said it'll go on pre-order sooner than you think. Which is a lie. Sooner than I think would have seen the pre-order announced on the following Sunday. Clearly GW doesn't know my thoughts, so they shouldn't say dumb stuff like that. Anyway, to me that suggests that GW is done talking about the box until it pops up during the pre-order announcement.

Which will hopefully happen soon. Preferably this weekend.

That's a damn good looking model.

It's also fairly standard for good quality 3rd party, which says a lot about the snail's pace at which GW releases even basic stuff.

The MkVI line isn't finished. I want MkVI assault marines. Kinda baffled as to why people are already tired of the original space marine armour. I've been waiting for a MkVI space marine set since... well, probably since the original plastic Imperial Space Marine kit was discontinued! So yeah, give me all the options before moving on to other armour mark kits (I mean, ideally, the assault variants would just be another weapons upgrade kit like the special and heavy weapons boxes so they can be used by the other Mark plastic kits as they come out).

Aren’t they releasing mk vi assault marines and weapon upgrades next year? That’s confirmed from months back

 ekwatts wrote:
The MkVI line isn't finished. I want MkVI assault marines. Kinda baffled as to why people are already tired of the original space marine armour. I've been waiting for a MkVI space marine set since... well, probably since the original plastic Imperial Space Marine kit was discontinued! So yeah, give me all the options before moving on to other armour mark kits (I mean, ideally, the assault variants would just be another weapons upgrade kit like the special and heavy weapons boxes so they can be used by the other Mark plastic kits as they come out).

Because it really doesn't fit the Heresy despite GW's retconning/shilling.

 Rihgu wrote:
It's not even the Eye of Horus, it's just a red eye, which mostly shows on Sons of Horus specific models but also, strangely, shows on Sanguinius.

Is Sanguinius also a traitor?

Those aren't eyes on Sanguinius

FlubDugger wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:
It's not even the Eye of Horus, it's just a red eye, which mostly shows on Sons of Horus specific models but also, strangely, shows on Sanguinius.

Is Sanguinius also a traitor?

Those aren't eyes on Sanguinius

Depends on what we're talking about. Some art? Blood drops. The painted model on FW? Eyes. They are thin slits, they don't widen at the bottom (not even slightly, as most artistic depictions it's such a narrow widening that you have to zoom in at high res to even notice they widen).

But, the official FW model, one of the most recent depictions, is 4 round eyes and a heart with a slit. Not tear/blood drops. They even taper on the bottom.

The most famous bit of artwork of Sanguinius has them depicted as drops.

The cover of Lost and the Damned has them as drops. "It's an eye" is a common misconception that gets translated to the minis

 Rihgu wrote:
It's not even the Eye of Horus, it's just a red eye, which mostly shows on Sons of Horus specific models but also, strangely, shows on Sanguinius.

Well, the article says

And although he has been painted in the colours of the Sons of Horus, the Traitor Champion Consul is Legion-agnostic and may be used by any of the nine Traitor Legions.

Being as it's a resin model, maybe there are alternate belt buckles? Does look nice though

 ekwatts wrote:
The MkVI line isn't finished. I want MkVI assault marines. Kinda baffled as to why people are already tired of the original space marine armour.

Because VI isn't iconic to some legions. Those wanting to assemble classic IW, DG, IF, and (imo) WE armies are left out in the metaphoric cold by a pure MKVI experience.

With that said.

The fact that it's taking almost two fething years to get something as basic as an assault squad out the door in MKVI is bat-gak insane. A competent company would've had it come out in the initial release wave or within three (MAYBE six) months of the AoD box drop, then pivoted into the other armor marks to continue driving the hype train and developing an eager customer base.

The traitor champion consul is so much better than the loyalist one. They aren't even in the same league, kind of blown away.

JSG wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:
The MkVI line isn't finished. I want MkVI assault marines. Kinda baffled as to why people are already tired of the original space marine armour. I've been waiting for a MkVI space marine set since... well, probably since the original plastic Imperial Space Marine kit was discontinued! So yeah, give me all the options before moving on to other armour mark kits (I mean, ideally, the assault variants would just be another weapons upgrade kit like the special and heavy weapons boxes so they can be used by the other Mark plastic kits as they come out).

Because it really doesn't fit the Heresy despite GW's retconning/shilling.

Its weird, here we have people bitching about MK6 being included in HH, but then in another thread we have people arguing that Mk7 should be included.

 Rihgu wrote:

But, the official FW model, one of the most recent depictions, is 4 round eyes and a heart with a slit. Not tear/blood drops. They even taper on the bottom.

None of those eyes is part of an eight-pointed star like the one on the new model, though. That's what pins it as a traitor.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:

But, the official FW model, one of the most recent depictions, is 4 round eyes and a heart with a slit. Not tear/blood drops. They even taper on the bottom.

None of those eyes is part of an eight-pointed star like the one on the new model, though. That's what pins it as a traitor.

So the sword wielding praetor from the Age of Darkness box (painted as an Imperial Fist) is a Traitor, because his iron halo has 8 points? Or is it specifically the combo of 8 points around a circle + a red eye that constitutes Traitor allegiance?

 ekwatts wrote:
The MkVI line isn't finished. I want MkVI assault marines. Kinda baffled as to why people are already tired of the original space marine armour. I've been waiting for a MkVI space marine set since... well, probably since the original plastic Imperial Space Marine kit was discontinued! So yeah, give me all the options before moving on to other armour mark kits (I mean, ideally, the assault variants would just be another weapons upgrade kit like the special and heavy weapons boxes so they can be used by the other Mark plastic kits as they come out).

I'd look at it with a little more positivity. Realistically one armor mark had to be first and Mk.VI ended up being it. That's genuinely great for all you guys who like Mk.VI armor. But people like what they like. There are plenty who want the other marks and have to wait their turn. I and like-minded people get to count ourselves lucky, getting the unquestionably, objectively and scientifically proven best armor mark just over a year after Mk.VI was released. Yay, go us! But that still leaves fans of Mk.II, IV and V out in the cold. I like to think of seeing the Mk.III kit so soon as a good sign, that GW wants to get out different armor marks sooner rather than later. Even if that has to be taken in relative terms, considering it might mean that one or two marks take longer to release than a typical GW game edition lasts. But at least it looks like there is commitment there on GW's part. I'm not sure how I'd feel if GW's stance was to do everything in Mk.VI, let it settle for a while and then after who knows how many years release the next armor mark. Not very happy, I'd guess.

The Assault Marine issue is no doubt a mind-boggling error in judgment, but it doesn't look like it has anything do with the particular mark of armor. Close combat Marines should have been available a year ago, but while fixing that lamentable state should be a priority, GW is big enough that it doesn't have to get in the way of releasing a kit for another armor mark as well.

I really like this model, but prefer the 'loyalist' champion for my traitor EC. Not sure if I'll pick this one up.

For the awareness of some, the eyes on the model are not Eyes of Horus, they're 'Eyes of the Serpent', whether mounted in a star or not:

Note the 'Eye of the Serpent' icon mounted on the Legionary's chest armour, which was used as a signifier of the bearer's allegiance to the Warmaster, a dark mirror of the Loyalists' increased use of the 'Imperialis' as their own totem.

From Book 4: Conquest. There's examples through the FW books of SOH, DG, EC etc all using it in various forms. Suits SOH more than the others of course but I like it as an explanation for why traitors become so eye-heavy even when not BL down the road.

Re: continuing Mark VI, I still expect it to be the main mark for 2.0 going forward - assuming that the Command Squad slated for next year will be in Mark VI on top of the already announced assault marines.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
I really like this model, but prefer the 'loyalist' champion for my traitor EC. Not sure if I'll pick this one up.

For the awareness of some, the eyes on the model are not Eyes of Horus, they're 'Eyes of the Serpent', whether mounted in a star or not:

Note the 'Eye of the Serpent' icon mounted on the Legionary's chest armour, which was used as a signifier of the bearer's allegiance to the Warmaster, a dark mirror of the Loyalists' increased use of the 'Imperialis' as their own totem.

From Book 4: Conquest. There's examples through the FW books of SOH, DG, EC etc all using it in various forms. Suits SOH more than the others of course but I like it as an explanation for why traitors become so eye-heavy even when not BL down the road.

Re: continuing Mark VI, I still expect it to be the main mark for 2.0 going forward - assuming that the Command Squad slated for next year will be in Mark VI on top of the already announced assault marines.

Thank you, I had spent much of this morning trying to figure out what that symbol was if not the Eye of Horus/Terra (which it clearly isn't, but I wasn't finding any other reference).

What I really like about is that it’s a Space Marine that most definitely doesn’t need to bother with such mundane items as mere doors.

Because he’s coming straight through the wall. And there’s not a damned thing you can do about it.

JSG wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:
The MkVI line isn't finished. I want MkVI assault marines. Kinda baffled as to why people are already tired of the original space marine armour. I've been waiting for a MkVI space marine set since... well, probably since the original plastic Imperial Space Marine kit was discontinued! So yeah, give me all the options before moving on to other armour mark kits (I mean, ideally, the assault variants would just be another weapons upgrade kit like the special and heavy weapons boxes so they can be used by the other Mark plastic kits as they come out).

Because it really doesn't fit the Heresy despite GW's retconning/shilling.

Hmm. The original Space marine game set in the Horus Heresy (you may know later editions as Epic) was entirely Mk6 and Mk7 armor.
So, no, it isn't a retcon. Its the original.

Mark 6 was the new armor at the time of the Horus Heresy....

It shouldn't have been out in this great a number, and mixed in along with the other armor ranges. There was discussion in Rogue Trader, 2d edition, and other sources when they talk about the Mark VI availability, and the upkeep.

Here's a snack, to get you going on learning about the armor/ armour.

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Power_Armour#Mark_V_.22Heresy_Armour.22

"Chaos Space Marines can be seen in this armour despite its association with Imperial Space Marines; they captured a significant quantity of the suits on Mars during the Heresy, as well as Mechanicum production facilities, and were therefore able to produce their own Mark VI suits.[1]

Mark VI armour was first issued during the later stages of the Great Crusade, and it was in wide service by the time of the Horus Heresy. And while it may be most associated with forces who employed stealth and infiltration tactics such as the Raven Guard or the Alpha Legion, every Legion was issued with this mobile, relatively lightweight armour mark – even the Iron Warriors, who were well-known for their preference for heavier armour.[51]

By the time of the Siege of Terra, Mark VI was the most numerous pattern in service, the Loyalist Legions defending the Imperial Palace had whole Chapters equipped with Mark VI armour, while the Dark Mechanicum hacked the data vaults of those still loyal to the Emperor to provide the designs to Horus and his forces. With countless Forge Worlds under the control of the Warmaster, production of Mark VI armour continued apace, and the Emperor’s Children in particular used it en masse during the Siege of Terra. The predominance of the Corvus armour would continue well into the Scouring and the present age. [48][51]"

So to be clear, MkVI is a Heresy armour and has always been a Heresy armour.
So glad this topic comes up every single release for HH.

Wait until they remember MkII and MkIII had fixed helmets.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wait until they remember MkII and MkIII had fixed helmets.

And MkIII is too heavy to use a jump pack

Which is why you strap one to each ankle as well.

Probably.

GW is going for the throat of third party sculpts by making their own sculpts look like non IP infringing not-Marines

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Wait until they remember MkII and MkIII had fixed helmets.

Right? It's almost as if the fluff for this is both inconsistent AND YET easily explained in a satisfying in-universe way.

Mk6 was a heresy armour because there was only mk6 at the time, and the original 6mm armies that came in the Epic-scale Space Marine box set were entirely composed of Mk6 armour.

Sculpting standards being what they were, regular 25-28mm Space Marine power armour was kind of all over the place. Mk6 was kind of a baseline, and the sculptors went wild with different shoulder pads, helmets, greaves, stud placement, etc. Some of this could be retrospectively considered to represent "earlier" marks of armour, like Mk5 and Mk4 (I don't think a "proper" Mk3 or Mk2 was sculpted until a while after the fluff had really solidified around the in-universe evolution and development of power armour).

Mk6 was (MUCH MUCH) later (kind of?) retconned as being a particularly modern and up-to-date, sparkly new version of power armour by the time the Heresy really kicks into gear. I didn't pay too much attention to the Forgeworld range at the time, but I guess this was to give all of the different armour marks they made (or wanted to make, depending on which order the fluff and the resin armour kits came out) a fair chance.

There are hundreds of ways in which you can retrospectively explain anyone being able to get their hands on the new Mk6 suits, heretics or loyalists. I mean, I imagine that the suits were extensively field-tested. In fact, even with the way the Imperium works at the time of the Heresy, you could still imagine the conceptual and testing processes taking decades. Mk2 and 3 suits would be the standard at the outset of the Great Crusade, with Mk4 being the new standard, but Mk6's would have been seeping into the hands of all chapters for years before being rushed through the final stages of development in order to become a new standard during the Heresy itself.

I think the real travesty is that Mk5 in fluff terms has become kind of a "lost" mark, in that it's meant to be kind of a catch-all term for bodged together suits, even though the Mk5 concept is actually pretty solid for most of us who have been in the game for a while. The reason, I suspect, that so many people are so convinced that Mk6 is meant to be this super-rare sight in the Heresy era is the fact that Forgeworld, understandably, really bigged up the Mk2-3-4 suit sets it made, and while the M6 was part of that range, it never seemed as visible. But it was still produced as part of the range, as was the very uniform-looking Mk5 resin kit, too.

So I'd say that, even when the fluff-writers and model-makers were working far more closely together even at Forgeworld, you still had a pretty blatant inconsistency between the fluff for the Mk5 suits, too. But, again, gotta point out: the Mk6 suit was still part of the Horus Heresy V1 resin range, too, so.... it's always been there!

I don't have my Black Books with me, but according to Deliverance Lost, the Raven Guard is the first legion to get issued MKVI, and that is post Istvaan. At the end of the day, it depends of if you respect Alan Blight 's fluff (the big black books that basically codified the Horus Heresy and gave it a real existence), archaeological lore (when MKVI was the Epic amor), or the new retcon made to sell the new boxes
But yeah, MKVI is definitely a Horus Heresy armor, no one should deny that and I don't believe I ever met someone pretending that, the only point is : when did it become widespread ? Well, depends of the version of the lore

That new champion could be a third party sculpt. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it doesn't have the feel of MKIII. I think it's so far away from MKIII that it feels like another blinged MKVI sculpt or a resculpt of one.

Dont need new characters, need my jumpers.

 godardc wrote:
I don't have my Black Books with me, but according to Deliverance Lost, the Raven Guard is the first legion to get formally issued significant numbers of MKVI, and that is post Istvaan.

Four words is all it takes to change the context. I don't even see any of this as all that much of a retcon. I'm not dissing Alan Bligh, he had a perfectly good reason to write the fluff the way he did, but since 40k is just layers of retcon over retcon, with some retcons re-retconning things and retconning retcons, I really don't see why this is all that much of an issue. MkVI being more widespread than Bligh suggested in that one line isn't doing the guy any disrespect at all. I'm pretty sure Bligh was pretty clear and in touch with the spirit of 40k in that regard. The thing with 40k/30k is that we're talking about scales that are kind of absurd and difficult to fully quantify, so making a hard-and-fast statement on how "widespread" something is becomes kind of irrelevant. A minority within thousands upon thousands, if not millions, is still pretty sizeable, right? The Raven Guard receives a legion-wide rollout of a new form of armour? Sure thing. That doesn't mean that the Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Salamanders or *cough* Alpha Legion cannot/wouldn't already have had several huge divisions of warriors wearing field-tested prototypes, full production models, etc.

Especially for 28mm scale battles that are tiny skirmlsh inside tiny skirmish with epic only barely bigger

 ekwatts wrote:
I think the real travesty is that Mk5 in fluff terms has become kind of a "lost" mark, in that it's meant to be kind of a catch-all term for bodged together suits, even though the Mk5 concept is actually pretty solid for most of us who have been in the game for a while. The reason, I suspect, that so many people are so convinced that Mk6 is meant to be this super-rare sight in the Heresy era is the fact that Forgeworld, understandably, really bigged up the Mk2-3-4 suit sets it made, and while the M6 was part of that range, it never seemed as visible. But it was still produced as part of the range, as was the very uniform-looking Mk5 resin kit, too.

The status of Mk5 is a bit of a bugbear for very many people. Theres a faction here that are erroneously convinced that MK5 was not a real armor mark and was composed of a hodge podge of parts taken from other armor marks and therefore should not get its own kit because the "proper" mk5 is a mix and match of mk 2, 3, 4, and 6. This is despite the fact that most official depictions of mk5 armor its clearly shown that the various components of the armor suit are distinctly different from any of those other armor marks (yeah, the iconic mk5 helmet - which other mark over power armor was that taken from, exactly?). This is despite GW writing and publishing in multiple places (hell, not to long ago they basically dedicated a whole ass article that explicitly made it a point to clarify this) that while MK5 wasn't necessarily fully "standardized" it was in fact a distinctly and separately manufactured mark of power armor with its own separate assembly lines and not just a hodgepodge of pieces cobbled together in the field.

 ekwatts wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I don't have my Black Books with me, but according to Deliverance Lost, the Raven Guard is the first legion to get formally issued significant numbers of MKVI, and that is post Istvaan.

Four words is all it takes to change the context. I don't even see any of this as all that much of a retcon. I'm not dissing Alan Bligh, he had a perfectly good reason to write the fluff the way he did, but since 40k is just layers of retcon over retcon, with some retcons re-retconning things and retconning retcons, I really don't see why this is all that much of an issue. MkVI being more widespread than Bligh suggested in that one line isn't doing the guy any disrespect at all. I'm pretty sure Bligh was pretty clear and in touch with the spirit of 40k in that regard. The thing with 40k/30k is that we're talking about scales that are kind of absurd and difficult to fully quantify, so making a hard-and-fast statement on how "widespread" something is becomes kind of irrelevant. A minority within thousands upon thousands, if not millions, is still pretty sizeable, right? The Raven Guard receives a legion-wide rollout of a new form of armour? Sure thing. That doesn't mean that the Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Salamanders or *cough* Alpha Legion cannot/wouldn't already have had several huge divisions of warriors wearing field-tested prototypes, full production models, etc.

I don't even really understand the point people are trying to make here. The Raven Guard were the *first* legion to be issued Mk6. That doesn't mean they were the only or the last. Raven Guard were issued it early on in the Heresy, that leaves another what 10+ years for other legions to also receive Mk6 issue? The supposed "retcon" isn't a retcon. Theres fluff saying that Mk6 was in use during the heresy, the original heresy era product line launched with mk6 in the first place, there was clearly no change in fluff or direction that created a "change" in continuity that would be needed to justify calling it a retcon.

chaos0xomega wrote:


I don't even really understand the point people are trying to make here. The Raven Guard were the *first* legion to be issued Mk6. That doesn't mean they were the only or the last. Raven Guard were issued it early on in the Heresy, that leaves another what 10+ years for other legions to also receive Mk6 issue? The supposed "retcon" isn't a retcon. Theres fluff saying that Mk6 was in use during the heresy, the original heresy era product line launched with mk6 in the first place, there was clearly no change in fluff or direction that created a "change" in continuity that would be needed to justify calling it a retcon.

Not to mention that even with Alan Bligh's work on the Black Books and the novels, there's still massive amounts of conflicts, missions, and story gaps that GW can fill in that explains stuff like this. Just because one event is going on at a specific time doesn't mean that's the only thing that is.

I actually quite like the Mk III character, visually different and working well as Mk III "Artificer" armour, that or armour worn by someone who has spent a little too long at the all you can eat breakfast

I also like the lack of bling, looks like armour worn by someone who means business and isn't on a parade

chaos0xomega wrote:

I don't even really understand the point people are trying to make here. The Raven Guard were the *first* legion to be issued Mk6. That doesn't mean they were the only or the last. Raven Guard were issued it early on in the Heresy, that leaves another what 10+ years for other legions to also receive Mk6 issue? The supposed "retcon" isn't a retcon. Theres fluff saying that Mk6 was in use during the heresy, the original heresy era product line launched with mk6 in the first place, there was clearly no change in fluff or direction that created a "change" in continuity that would be needed to justify calling it a retcon.

especially since even in the older versions of the lore, the ravenguard were just the ones who proved how effective it can be, and that other Legions had trialed it before them. all the new lore does is establish exactly how fast it proliferated.

ekwatts wrote:
Sculpting standards being what they were, regular 25-28mm Space Marine power armour was kind of all over the place. Mk6 was kind of a baseline, and the sculptors went wild with different shoulder pads, helmets, greaves, stud placement, etc. Some of this could be retrospectively considered to represent "earlier" marks of armour, like Mk5 and Mk4 (I don't think a "proper" Mk3 or Mk2 was sculpted until a while after the fluff had really solidified around the in-universe evolution and development of power armour).

Mk6 was (MUCH MUCH) later (kind of?) retconned as being a particularly modern and up-to-date, sparkly new version of power armour by the time the Heresy really kicks into gear. I didn't pay too much attention to the Forgeworld range at the time, but I guess this was to give all of the different armour marks they made (or wanted to make, depending on which order the fluff and the resin armour kits came out) a fair chance.

Not that much later. The first White Dwarf article about the history of armour marks was during the Rogue Trader era, with the release of the "historical" set at pretty much the same time.
It's in either the Compendium or the Compilation.

I’m pretty sure I’ve got that White Dwarf, and definitely have its collected version.

Will dig one or both out in a bit.

I'm going to publicly admit that my search-fu isn't strong. I'm working on it, but in the mean time, has there any ANYTHING further about assault marines?

GW showed off a couple rinders awhile back and the road map shows things developing right about now. Have I missed something?

Nothing. As they were slated for winter still to go.

Primarch, dreadnougqt and armour upgrade for autumn.

 Tyranid Horde wrote:
That new champion could be a third party sculpt. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it doesn't have the feel of MKIII. I think it's so far away from MKIII that it feels like another blinged MKVI sculpt or a resculpt of one.

It has a lot of the design cues of the previewed mk.III resculpt, but those resculpts are very different from the mk.III (first resin and then plastic) that defined its look for the entirety of the HH up to this point.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/09/17/sunday-preview-knights-vampires-and-classic-warhammer-40000-terrain/

Variant knights next week.

Archeron and Castigator on pre order next Saturday





Hopefully clears the way for the Mark III/Deredeo box and Fulgrim.

Well the Mk3 box certainly did not come "sooner than I thought"

Nice to have the two of them take up only one release slot tho. Now to choose which to get...

I'd get the flamer one if I had space for something like a knight but alas, knee deep in stuff already.. saving space for Epic Imperialis and KT21S3

Guessing they don't do two 30k weeks in a row so probably 7 October preorder earliest for Fulgrim. So much for the "sooner than you think" "shortly" and "very soon" for the spate of 30k previews over the past few weeks!

Well I made a spreadsheet and Castigator wins hands down as the least bad of the three, bringing almost the firepower of a Sicaran Punisher for only slightly more than twice the cost. Preordered.

Did not expect the Cerastus variants to drop so soon after the Lancer, will have to dig into the reserves for my Acheron then, before it inevitably sells out.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Guessing they don't do two 30k weeks in a row so probably 7 October preorder earliest for Fulgrim. So much for the "sooner than you think" "shortly" and "very soon" for the spate of 30k previews over the past few weeks!

Fulgrim is 30k FW, so seperate from the plastic kit releases. Hopefully he comes out soon alongside the mk III champ.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Guessing they don't do two 30k weeks in a row so probably 7 October preorder earliest for Fulgrim. So much for the "sooner than you think" "shortly" and "very soon" for the spate of 30k previews over the past few weeks!

Fulgrim is 30k FW, so seperate from the plastic kit releases. Hopefully he comes out soon alongside the mk III champ.

Possible but unlikely. AFAIK every FW full-resin preview has also taken up one of our ‘slots’ as opposed to being treated as it’s own thing, which is a little disappointing but absolutely makes sense.

Building the Cerastus Knights Acheron and Castigator Including Awesome Flexible Ammo Feed



Individual links for the Ammo Feeds - that's going to be fun...

Those two sprues of ammo feed could have been an assault squad.

Gonna be fun when you accidentally bump it and the paint crumbles.

You'd need to fix the links hard in place with loads of plastic glue once you'd got it hooked up or yeah, that would happen. Bit of an iffy design

A pox. An honest to god pox on which ever galaxy brain melon-fether thought that was a perfectly acceptable design choice. I'm all for kit modularity and poseability, but how many people are honestly going to utilize this to it's full advantage? An underwhelming minority is who. The people who do will be the people who already have the skill and patience to convert and customise anyway.



I also like the fact that they bang on about flexible the kit is and then only show the arm is it's "standard" slightly extended out pose. Why to really sell the kit ya boneheads.

Honestly this plastic design is infinitely better than the resin one, especially as these massive plastic kits will be picked up more by hobbists with less overall experience than people who bought the resin knights.

 Snrub wrote:
A pox. An honest to god pox on which ever galaxy brain melon-fether thought that was a perfectly acceptable design choice. I'm all for kit modularity and poseability, but how many people are honestly going to utilize this to it's full advantage? An underwhelming minority is who. The people who do will be the people who already have the skill and patience to convert and customise anyway.



I also like the fact that they bang on about flexible the kit is and then only show the arm is it's "standard" slightly extended out pose. Why to really sell the kit ya boneheads.

Looks like a solid design to me?

Slightest modicum of care when assembling the feed should leave it all loosey goosey. Then, once you’ve fiddled around with positioning, a little tactical glue, and you’re good to go.

Beats arsing around with near boiling water, a hair dryer and superglue only to find its now stuck to your forehead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Those two sprues of ammo feed could have been an assault squad.

Gonna be fun when you accidentally bump it and the paint crumbles.

You mean the Assault Squad we already know is coming?

A pox on me then for looking forward to this. Leagues better than trying to bend gakky resin into place and you only need a little bit of glue to hold it all in place once you've posed the model the way you want it, just a drop of extra thin cement on each link and you're good.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Gonna be fun when you accidentally bump it and the paint crumbles.

GW models are designed to be display models first, not gaming pieces. You are not supposed to move that thing around once it is painted

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
leave it all loosey goosey.

Right well I missed the part about it being a no-glue-required deal on my initial read through. That mollifies my bewilderment some.

Beats arsing around with near boiling water, a hair dryer and superglue only to find its now stuck to your forehead.

But this is what I mean, why not just make it a pre-shaped moulded piece and be done with it? Christ, for all the space it would have saved on those sprues, they could have thrown a couple of different shapes on there to keep the everyone happy. Rather then having you dick around trying to line up little free-sitting parts that will scatter the first time some fat-fingered fool tries to assemble them. (I am aforementioned fat-fingered fool)


I dunno, clearly I'm alone in this and therefore wrong, so I guess i'll go grumble to myself over in the corner, but jeez that looks like not the best way of having done the kit.

 kodos wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Gonna be fun when you accidentally bump it and the paint crumbles.

GW models are designed to be display models first, not gaming pieces. You are not supposed to move that thing around once it is painted

That's why all play armies are grey.

Tbh this is the same Level vibe i got from the rogal "no bottom plate" Dorn and the smart person splitting the bottom plate of the spartan with its clownish build plan...

The flexible design sounds like a sensible solution to me. Beats being stuck with only one or two poses.

Of course it beats heat bending resin. But let's not pretend it's not going to be arduous. Would have preferred 2 or 3 preset whole belts.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Would have preferred 2 or 3 preset whole belts.

Thankyou. This is the point I was driving at, just said with actual words rather then my own confused gibberish.

Well, I for one applaud the approach they have taken here. The resulting model will be far better for it. Derpy looking cables with nearly impossible to remove mold lines are something I hate with a passion, this build looks a bit laborous, but at least the result can look perfect and 100% moldline free

 tauist wrote:
Well, I for one applaud the approach they have taken here. The resulting model will be far better for it. Derpy looking cables with nearly impossible to remove mold lines are something I hate with a passion, this build looks a bit laborous, but at least the result can look perfect and 100% moldline free

How do you figure? Each link will still have a mold line. Two actually. It just won't snake around and swap edges as it would on a twisty whole piece belt?

yes, but you need to paint them before you build them to look good and stay flexible

 kodos wrote:
yes, but you need to paint them before you build them to look good and stay flexible

Wait, why would you want them to stay flexible? The arm will be fixed anyway. I'm guessing the intended use is to pose the arm, assemble the belt, let it settle in a natural gravity induced droop, then add a bit of glue as deep as possible into each link so it doesn't gunk up the surface. Then paint a solid model as normal.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Well, I for one applaud the approach they have taken here. The resulting model will be far better for it. Derpy looking cables with nearly impossible to remove mold lines are something I hate with a passion, this build looks a bit laborous, but at least the result can look perfect and 100% moldline free

How do you figure? Each link will still have a mold line. Two actually. It just won't snake around and swap edges as it would on a twisty whole piece belt?

Removing mold lines from rectangular pieces is trivial and you can achieve a 100% clean result without scarring the details.. on ribbed single piece cabling, notsomuch..

That's an awesome design and such a good idea. Bodes well for plastic mechanicum down the line too with the mauler bolt cannon feeds 😍

beast_gts wrote:Building the Cerastus Knights Acheron and Castigator Including Awesome Flexible Ammo Feed

Spoiler:

Individual links for the Ammo Feeds - that's going to be fun...

If you're playing Traitors, just leave them off and say that the ammo comes from warp sorcery.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 kodos wrote:
yes, but you need to paint them before you build them to look good and stay flexible

Wait, why would you want them to stay flexible? The arm will be fixed anyway. I'm guessing the intended use is to pose the arm, assemble the belt, let it settle in a natural gravity induced droop, then add a bit of glue as deep as possible into each link so it doesn't gunk up the surface. Then paint a solid model as normal.

you can do it that way, but it won't look good any more as you are going to see the glue (and with not enough glue so you don't see it, it won't stay fixed anyway)

point is, for those links to look good painted, it is a lot of work, and I don't think it is less work than removing mould lines on on part belts (as you still have to remove them here as well)

but as I said, display model level of work, not a gaming piece

"HH is unplayable because everything is expensive FW resin."
*GW makes plastic Cerastus"
"Oh my god, I can't believe this specific design choice was made. This kit is completely awful and unusable."

Folks, you just can't win with these people.

beast_gts wrote:
Building the Cerastus Knights Acheron and Castigator Including Awesome Flexible Ammo Feed

Spoiler:

Individual links for the Ammo Feeds - that's going to be fun...

It's not gluing the model together that's the issue. It'll be moldline scraping for every. tiny. fething. part.
Ugh I'm going to skip getting this model. The thought of trying to hold all those tiny pieces in my sausage fingers and scraping them is making me angry already.

With the crazy prices GW is asking for their models, everything might as well be treated as a display puece IMHO

It is curious that GW have the capacity to dedicate multiple entire sprues to ammo feeds, but putting an extra sprue in the Chaos Terminators kit so that you can have a whole units-worth of weapon? Pft! Impossible!

some people like to buy display models and put them on the shelf
others like to play games and buy gaming pieces

don't see a problem here if those that want to play the game say that they don't like display models to work with

not everyone is a model builder and the more complicated and time consuming model building is, the less excited those people will be

 kodos wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 kodos wrote:
yes, but you need to paint them before you build them to look good and stay flexible

Wait, why would you want them to stay flexible? The arm will be fixed anyway. I'm guessing the intended use is to pose the arm, assemble the belt, let it settle in a natural gravity induced droop, then add a bit of glue as deep as possible into each link so it doesn't gunk up the surface. Then paint a solid model as normal.

you can do it that way, but it won't look good any more as you are going to see the glue (and with not enough glue so you don't see it, it won't stay fixed anyway)

point is, for those links to look good painted, it is a lot of work, and I don't think it is less work than removing mould lines on on part belts (as you still have to remove them here as well)

but as I said, display model level of work, not a gaming piece

You won’t see any glue? Glue each link together, leaving it flexible. Pose and glue each end in, and then run some plastic glue into each link.

It's not resin?

 JNAProductions wrote:
It's not resin?

No, they’re plastic.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
It's not resin?

No, they’re plastic.

Ah. Neat!

Not gonna get it, but neat.

I think this method for the ammo feeds is genius. I absolutely want one of the Castigators eventually.

Now imagine they scale this up for a plastic Warhound Titan?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Now imagine they scale this up for a plastic Warhound Titan?

10 sprues of 4 links each

Heresy Thursday – Space Wolves Get a Predatory Praetor and New Mark VI Heads

Finally, a decent Horus Heresy Space Wolf sculpt! Now they need to replace the invert bolters, Terminator Praetor and the Varagyr

Well those heads are certainly a great step forward for the wolves. The others were just comical.
Praetor's nice enough. Not the best praetor they've done, but neither is it the worst. They really need to go back to hand sculpting fur. Digitally sculpted fur just lacks.

That's not fair I have just properly started Sons of Horus and now FW releases this beauty?

Guess they finally figured out that folks werent that much into the Wolfy McWolf heads :p

It's so weird seeing a Space Woof who doesn't look comical.

THOSE ARE MILES BETTER, HOLY gak.

They really walked back on those SW heads huh?
But that also gives us a timescale how long GW needs for a small new resin upgrade set. The old ones where revealed on August 4th last year so a bit more than 13 months for just 11 small heads that are just pre-existing ones with different decorations. Probably less than that as they wouldn't have started right when the old ones where revealed but still

Hahahah it’s funny but I also feel better for whoever sculpted the wolf heads

If this is the glow up from the old to new SW sculpts, I cant wait to see the Iron hands Praetors

So should we buy the wolf heads since they’ll be a collectors item now?

 GaroRobe wrote:
So should we buy the wolf heads since they’ll be a collectors item now?

FW stopped selling them a while back.