CURNOW wrote:$50 for 32 extra figs is a good buy plus im sure they would look amazeing half painted as if there phaseing out of view ...

Now that is a bloody good idea!

Or

Some coloured washes used strategically to give them the kind of feel of a cloaked Predator.

Update: Camo soldiers and GiD Strain now available separately for $30 a set.

"Based on feedback, we're making these two optional packs available separately too!

Model counts are the same for the full Lights Out Campaign Pack, and the stretch goal for $240k will get either the glow in the dark Strain or Opticamo Kara and officers depending on whether you pledge for the Opticamo Pack or the GITD Strain Pack."

Also, it dropped from $224,325 to $224,150 right after it was announced.

Platuan4th wrote:Update: Camo soldiers and GiD Strain now available separately for $30 a set.

"Based on feedback, we're making these two optional packs available separately too!

Model counts are the same for the full Lights Out Campaign Pack, and the stretch goal for $240k will get either the glow in the dark Strain or Opticamo Kara and officers depending on whether you pledge for the Opticamo Pack or the GITD Strain Pack."

Also, it dropped from $224,325 to $224,150 right after it was announced.

Great to see how quickly they reacted to that. If I have some free cash, I think I'll get the camo set.

edit: too bad about the dip, but catering to fans (intelligently) should pay off for them, in the long run. I hope it will, anyways, since they seem like good people.

Platuan4th wrote:

That'd be awesome, actually.

We did a 40K Night Fight game under black light before, was pretty fun. I bet that'd give the same feel, very atmospheric.

Ohh...now that sounds good. For some reason I imagine you guys played a desert setting....urban would probably kick up too many shadows.

That said, the board would probably be too shiny, so you'd lose all the board detail....bummer.....maybe the next stretch target could be a fully detailed set of 3D space corridors, in plastic vac formed sections of course!!!

Who'd like that!

zedmeister wrote:
Reading through the SW thread on Boardgamegeek is quite irritating. The amount of people commenting on the line of (and I may be exaggerating slightly) "Well, if the rules aren't free, then I'm NEVER going to buy or play it. I can't believe that a company in this day and age expects me to pay for the rules!" I bet they get really heated if someone mentions monopoly.

That's really interesting given that this is a boardgame that uses miniatures. What do they think of Space Hulk or Dwarf King's Hold? Even Dust Tactics, Bloodbowl, all of those collectable miniatures games like World of Warcraft, Star Wars, Axis and Allies, et al....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Platuan4th wrote:Update: Camo soldiers and GiD Strain now available separately for $30 a set.
Also, it dropped from $224,325 to $224,150 right after it was announced.

I'm sure they'll make up that $175 with people just going for the camo figures pretty quickly...
(checks)
ahyup - $224,435 now.

He needs to add the 270k goal to the front page too. More people might throw in with a second tank as an option. Especially since at this rate we'll hit the 240k goal by tomorrow evening. Since he's already added over 15k today.

Ok, I've got a question and maybe I'm not thinking about this right. It's about the glow in the dark minis/pledge level.

So, the pledge level was met to get the solo campaign. That's what? And additional $30k? That's some designer/play tester time but no new sculpts- just glow in the dark plastic. My question is: does it make sense to pay extra money for the glowing minis when money was already paid to get it past the stretch goal; double dipping? I can understand having to pay extra for shipping if you wanted these figures or pay for new sculpts (I shelled out for the terrain and Dr Susan). Am I going about this wrong?

Please refrain from 'Just don't buy them derpity-derp lolololomnop!" responses please, this is an honest question.

I don't really see it as double dipping myself.

Bear in mind 90% of people are only contributing their level and whatever they prefer. This means that you'll have to entice to you to increase your support. So while somethings are free add-ons to get more people to donate the initial large amount or to encourage them to double up the rest are going to be bonuses they can convince people to buy. Without this it would stall out a bit as only new blood was enticed.

At least that's the way I see it.

ok just put in another $30 for the clear set .. so for just over £100 its
the game
1x limited ed kara
2x kara {one clear}
2xmorgan
2xakosha
2xbarka zosa
2xtank

41xtroopers {11 clear} so 50 infantry and 2 tanks ..

phase1 x24
phase2 x10
phase3 x8
phase4 x1
phase5 x1 so 54 strain,,
this is biohazard plus the optcamo set once it beats the 270k mark ...wow

Delephont wrote:I guess you could rig the board with LEDs, hell that would be super atmospheric....and play the aliens FX track in the background.....wow, could be a good themed night actually.

The Aliens soundtrack is great for that sort of thing. Did that during a Dark Heresy game where the players were hunting someone through an area that had been overtaken by Genestealers. The violin stings in that soundtrack make everyone jump!

Even when they know it's coming!

Guh, moment of weakness, getting the Lights Out pack.
If nothing else it's another what, 30 minis for 50 bucks?

I was going to drop to the $30 camo pack, but figured if I don't like the glowy boys, I'll just paint them. May change mind on other stretches later.

I've upped my support to $150.00 to get the dice, terrain, and Dr. Ridley.

I will definitely be getting the Biohazard level and the Ridleys, and for the $30 price I'm seriously thinking of getting the Optical Camo Vanguard instead of the terrain, especially if it ships with the Kickstarter in November (which I'm not sure ATM if it does an would love to know).

If I could figure out a good way to use the Glowing Strain as a troop-type/upgrade, I would be thinking more about the combo pack. Something akin to Lambent enemies in GoW, perhaps, that self-destruct in an AOE when you kill them.

My (pencilled in) wantlist is a "we've got movement", 2x scenery, 2x Ripley and 1x Lights Out pack.

Of course, with new additions all the time, I'll get to the stage where I stop adding and start subbing.

What is the Strain model with the gun-arm thing in the bottom right hand of the advert pic? that guy is awesome.

I think I'm on the Biohazard and possibly the extra figs. I think these guys could make some pretty cool Tyranids.

I mentioned this before. If anyone is looking to trade their Strain for some of the good guy models...

I think if I hate 6th I'll keep this as a board game/possibe skirmish. If i like 6th, these guys may form the basis of a Nid force!

Well I finally caved and pick pledged for the Biohazard and the scientist survivor. Really hope I don't end up getting screwed on import duty with all the cool extras. Fingers crossed

MunkeyKungFu wrote:Well I finally caved and pick pledged for the Biohazard and the scientist survivor. Really hope I don't end up getting screwed on import duty with all the cool extras. Fingers crossed

You won't, European orders will be shipped from the UK.

Well, I went biohazard 24 hours in to the kick for the game alone, so im stunned by how much gak we are getting anyway, AND they sorted the shipping out.. I dont think people have any grounds to whinge.

I am really pleased with how it looks and the value, even if we don't hit the second tank.

I'm Looking forward to painting my first non GW mini's too!

Went with the Biohazard too. This looks like a game I could actually get other people I know to play too!

I'm in on the Biohazzard, plus dice, Ridley and Terrain. Personally I'm not into the new Cammo and Glow models, a bit gimicy for my liking.

I can see how fun it would be. We used to play Necromunda with tea lights on the board in a blacked out room. It was great because you could actually hide your models in the shadows from your opponent, whereas in daylight you could see them and therefore shoot. The problem came when you actually 'lost' your model in the darkness to which at the end of the game we wrote the model off as MIA and striped them from the Gangs rooster sheet with all their equipment. Great Fun.

more details of the design process of the strain
http://studiomcvey.blogspot.de/

BrookM wrote:

MunkeyKungFu wrote:Well I finally caved and pick pledged for the Biohazard and the scientist survivor. Really hope I don't end up getting screwed on import duty with all the cool extras. Fingers crossed

You won't, European orders will be shipped from the UK.

This has made my day

For some reason, I am getting more and more tempted by the translucent miniatures.

Also, something for the wish list that has been mentioned before, a future goal or more likely an add on that I'd like to see would be some sort of plastic board section set. Potentially expensive to produce, but also potentially very lucrative. I can hear the sobbing of wallets already!

CURNOW wrote:more details of the design process of the strain
http://studiomcvey.blogspot.de/

That thing is awesome! And that's a seriously awesome paint job too!

This thing is getting more and more tempting daily...

How do these minis scale up against the Predator minis from heroclicks, or the one from hasslefree?

Are we getting the clear guys and glow in the darks as a add on, or are they in line with the terraign set, and you buy them seperate?

Grot 6 wrote:How do these minis scale up against the Predator minis from heroclicks, or the one from hasslefree?

Are we getting the clear guys and glow in the darks as a add on, or are they in line with the terraign set, and you buy them seperate?

No idea on Heroclix scale


Glow guys are separate

It's a 2 players game...but is there any informations about if it's possible to play with more players ?

Grot 6 wrote:How do these minis scale up against the Predator minis from heroclicks, or the one from hasslefree?

Are we getting the clear guys and glow in the darks as a add on, or are they in line with the terraign set, and you buy them seperate?

It is all pretty clearly stated on the Kickstarter page - those figures are all extra.

Yeah, it's actually a lot clearer than the Mantic one currently is.

And its on pace to hit the $240k mark by this afternoon/evening. Then on to the extra Tank!!!

I just upped and said the hell with it.

280 for a 190.00 pledge, plus all of the snacks I wanted, minus the dice.




the quality of this stuff to me is the point.

Mike comes out of left field, pushes a whole new level of badass, and-

Gets my money.


Isn't it funny how another unnamed "Boardgame" couldn't have done this vary same thing and added even more then just a "movie pitch"...

Von Skyfury wrote:It's a 2 players game...but is there any informations about if it's possible to play with more players ?

I haven't heard anything beyond 2 players, aside from the obvious ability to split the sides with a friend for 2-on-2.

scipio.au wrote:My (pencilled in) wantlist is a "we've got movement", 2x scenery, 2x Ripley and 1x Lights Out pack.

Of course, with new additions all the time, I'll get to the stage where I stop adding and start subbing.

At this point I am just going to wait and see what the final offers are before I add more money. I might just get two sets and not worry about other stuff.... but who knows.

According to one of Mike's posts over on the Studio McVey forum, the solo rules that we're getting for free will most likely be improved upon and added into the first expansion set, along with multiplayer rules.

Guess I'll have to add sigourney weaver to my pledge. can't resist. What about the extra dice, from the video I got the idea that we only need 3D6 to play.. is it worth getting extras or is it really just for folks that wanna collect em? If they're just extra then I'll be fine with the set that comes with the pledge

You'll need more than 3 dice each as any sixes give you another dice. The video wouldn't play for me, so I don't know if the extra dice also explode

I have to admit - exploding d6's are not something I'm fond of...

Might just be my anti-Rackham bias shining through though!

OK dumbass question coming up..

im going in for biohazard.. do i include the $25 shipping to UK in the pledge amount or is it calculated later?

You add it into your pledge, but tick the $100 level. At the end of the campaign they will send out a questionnaire to see what you wanted to spend your money on from the bonuses

yes, include it now.

edit everything gets ninja'ed nowadays.

Cheers guys,

I have to admit - exploding d6's are not something I'm fond of...

Yeah, but exploding d6's are how you do more than shoot a guy and do minimal damage, because even with rolling 3D6, you might be trying to hit a "17". Plus each "6" is what adds extra damage above the base value from an attack, because it looks like most of the time a "normal" hit isn;t going to kill the guy you are shooting at, just wound them.

I really like their method for figuring out an attack+wound with just one roll of the dice.

The cool thing is that now we are getting the 6 special D6's in addition to the dice that the game already was going to have. And (if) the attack mechanic means that only the 6's on the initial three D6 matter for damage, it'll be a kind of cool way to track what explodes by rolling that side's 3 special dice, and then for every one that explodes you can roll one of the regular D6.

it would be more fun if the dice exploded for real. They could make a lot of extra cash selling new dice to replace our blow'd up ones

Security googles sold separately.

Right im in for biohazard..

ill probably upgrade with some options later though....

Nice !
250k goal :

If we hit this stretch, Mike and Ali will put together a short painting tutorial to get your Battle for Alabaster miniature windfall into decent shape! Every Biohazard set will receive a DVD (region free) with a short tutorial specifically for this Kickstarter. Depending on space limitations, a HD version you can play on your computer will either be included or downloadable.

Newest stretch goal seems a stretch. Keep the painting DVD, send me more minis.

I'm okay with a DVD actually, could do with some pro painting tips.

yeah depending on what techniques are in it .could be quite good :]

Just caved in and got me Biohazard, Ridley and Scenery...

McVey was pretty much the main Eavy Metal dude in the days. His work is second to none I really find on the net. A painting DVD by him is actually a damn good stretch goal.


** In fact, he is one of the people who got me into painting so, I look forward to it.

Assuming it's moderate to advanced, that'll certainly be welcome. If it's more basic than that, I'm not very interested...

Like the dvd idea, but personally I'd prefer a HD download

Just wondering why my credit card wasn't charged for kickstarter..? Do they charge at the end? I forget and if so.. what happens if they don';t get the cash on the first try does it cancel out your pledge or do you have a chance to still pay the cash?

IdentifyZero wrote:Just wondering why my credit card wasn't charged for kickstarter..? Do they charge at the end? I forget and if so.. what happens if they don';t get the cash on the first try does it cancel out your pledge or do you have a chance to still pay the cash?

Yes, the charge at the end. If they don't reach their goal then no money is substracted from your account.

BrookM wrote:

IdentifyZero wrote:Just wondering why my credit card wasn't charged for kickstarter..? Do they charge at the end? I forget and if so.. what happens if they don';t get the cash on the first try does it cancel out your pledge or do you have a chance to still pay the cash?

Yes, the charge at the end. If they don't reach their goal then no money is substracted from your account.

Thanks. What happens if for some reason a payment doesn't go through right away? VISA @ my bank tends to lock my visa anytime an online purchase is attempted to be charged especially if it is at an odd hour.

I can see that we might eventually need a "This is How Kickstarter Works" sticky... for all the good that does, as no one reads stickies either!

kickstarter gives you about a week to remedy a failed payment, which acts much more like a "regular" CC transaction.

...you'll be fine, really. don't worry

Thanks for the helpful replies guys. I just wanted to make sure I can afford the things I want haha.

I like to pay for things full and up front immediately to avoid the money dissapearing later to lol. I also would have read a sticky!


I'm really looking forward to SW coming out, even just to paint the guys plus it seems like an easy game to introduce people to.

Alpharius wrote:I can see that we might eventually need a "This is How Kickstarter Works" sticky... for all the good that does, as no one reads stickies either!

What's a sticky?

boom 240k passed !

IdentifyZero wrote:McVey was pretty much the main Eavy Metal dude in the days. His work is second to none I really find on the net. A painting DVD by him is actually a damn good stretch goal.


** In fact, he is one of the people who got me into painting so, I look forward to it.

I totally agree to this

IdentifyZero wrote:McVey was pretty much the main Eavy Metal dude in the days. His work is second to none I really find on the net. A painting DVD by him is actually a damn good stretch goal.
** In fact, he is one of the people who got me into painting so, I look forward to it.

This.

A post on the OptiCamo sets:

For the stretch characters, that's the base characters included in the base set, and Barker as he's now part of the base set (not the resin Kara).

No Glow in the Dark Grendlr or Cthonian though

IdentifyZero wrote:McVey was pretty much the main Eavy Metal dude in the days. His work is second to none I really find on the net. A painting DVD by him is actually a damn good stretch goal.
** In fact, he is one of the people who got me into painting so, I look forward to it.

If it is up to his level of painting/instruction - I would agree.

If not, to each his own.

I'm hoping the next stretch goal will give us a second Cthonian. Two of those and two tanks would be fantastic!

Anything else is gravy I think. Lots of cool stuff for sure.

Went for Biohazard plus scenery a couple of days ago. Bumped to to $150 for Lights Out instead of the scenery. Green glowy Necromunda sump creatures FTW!

I'm hoping the next stretch goal will give us a second Cthonian. Two of those and two tanks would be fantastic!

I'm not sure if that will happen, as they said the highest Stain Types (of which I a ssume the Cthonian is one) are the Strain's "characters". It'd be about as useful as getting a second Barker, as only one at a time likely hits the table.

That's a shame. I saw that one as more the equivalent of the tank. Ah well.

Still, maybe there's hope. We are getting two Kara's after all!

I thought so too, but the latest Blog from McVey (specifically about the Cthonian) said that they are their characters, so "only one".

It's possible that the Stain "tank" is the Brimstone, with it's main chest-gun. You get more than one Brimstone with the game vs. one tank, though so I assume it's probably "lighter weight" than a tank. Maybe it's a Strain tactic to engage something like that with multiple Brimstones?

H.B.M.C. wrote:That's a shame. I saw that one as more the equivalent of the tank. Ah well.

Still, maybe there's hope. We are getting two Kara's after all!

A limited edition Resin Cthonian would be pretty cool

I'm still not sold on the game itself, but the Opticamo Vanguard set looks good: nine female Vanguard for $31 is better than nineteen for $125. I'll probably paint the faces normally and leave the armour and weapons transparent.

@Mike McVey: does the transparent or glow in the dark material take casts of equal quality to the normal models?

That is $250,000 now... Now to $270,000 and another tank!

AlexHolker wrote:I'm still not sold on the game itself, but the Opticamo Vanguard set looks good: nine female Vanguard for $31 is better than nineteen for $125. I'll probably paint the faces normally and leave the armour and weapons transparent.

@Mike McVey: does the transparent or glow in the dark material take casts of equal quality to the normal models?

At this point even if the game sucks I can at least use the Strain for my Dark Mechanicus army.

I am in for a Biohazard, scenery plus Ridley.

My poor credit card - only just pledged a similar amount to Mantic

And near the end of June of the year 2012 we heard the outrcy of a million wallets!!

Looks like the mayans were not so much into announcing the end of the world but rather the advent of some really great kickstarts.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:And near the end of June of the year 2012 we heard the outrcy of a million wallets!!

Looks like the mayans were not so much into announcing the end of the world but rather the advent of some really great kickstarts.

Nice, and sig worthy!

Alpharius wrote:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:And near the end of June of the year 2012 we heard the outrcy of a million wallets!!

Looks like the mayans were not so much into announcing the end of the world but rather the advent of some really great kickstarts.

Nice, and sig worthy!

...yeah. just about needed one of those, too.

That 2nd tank is drawing ever closer :-D

Hey - can someone doublecheck with Mike or his Kickstarter to make sure we can get multiples of the extras?

I'd like to get 2x of the terrain sets, and when I think about it, I'd also like to get 2x of the Ripley sets as well... maybe more dice..

I want ALL the Ripleys!

AFAIK You can order as many of each as you want as they are extras. You could, if you wanted, order 20 sets of the transparent Vanguard

Sidstyler wrote:I want ALL the Ripleys!

Even the body horror Ripleys?

Good luck with getting any "Ripleys"....especially seeing as thats not even an option for this Kickstarter

Pedantry is not cool!

Alpharius wrote:Pedantry is not cool!

Now now, Alpharius.

Being an ass is the right of all sentient beings.







Or is that freedom?

Platuan4th wrote:

Alpharius wrote:Pedantry is not cool!

Now now, Alpharius.

Being an ass is the right of all sentient beings.

Or is that freedom?

You know, it's always heart warming to be reminded about the gaming community's response to humour.........

Because that type of stuff translates so well on the Internet on a forum full of...let's just say...assertive individuals.

Anyway, tracking towards $450K, though I still think the right stretch goals will push this into Zombicide territory!

Alpharius wrote:Because that type of stuff translates so well on the Internet on a forum full of...let's just say...assertive individuals.

I thought that was why they created

On point. Considering the original goal was a mere $20K, I wonder what the extra monies will be used for! I mean, if $20K was required for the basic game, at a push $80K would probably cover all the extras that are the stretch goals......

I mean, I don't care if it's all profit that goes towards paying off the McVey's mortgage although it would also be cool if the money was going to be used to fund the next stage and progress the I.P. to the next level

Think some good stretch goals would kick this into overdrive. Last couple have been ok but nothing exciting!

what could they do ?

IdentifyZero wrote:Think some good stretch goals would kick this into overdrive. Last couple have been ok but nothing exciting!

Agreed-- this is some top-notch stuff, in my opinion. I'd hate to see this one stall out (as it's feeling like it's doing), and some exciting stretch goals and/or supplements seem like they'd be the ticket.

I'd be interested in additional physical tiles, rather than what appears to be downloadable additional tiles for the DL campaigns...

Additional tiles would be good.. or all new ones, but I'm guessing they want to save new tiles for expansion packs.

Additional minis from their existing range being included would be a nice incentive, a new one for every next 10k / 20k reached.

BrookM wrote:Additional minis from their existing range being included would be a nice incentive, a new one for every next 10k / 20k reached.

But they seem pretty adamant on keeping the Firebrand for their next expansion, so theres not that much sedition wars wise. And the rest of their stuff is limited resin

I could see why we probably haven't seen new tiles yet as a stretch.

The way he said they are made has to be VERY expensive. The whole thing is made up in 3D, then a top view shot is taken, then things added via photoshop.

There is no way that can be cheap nor quickly done. Getting a mold made up and casting for say a token or figure probably can be done in an afternoon (once the design is done)

kenshin620 wrote:
But they seem pretty adamant on keeping the Firebrand for their next expansion, so theres not that much sedition wars wise. And the rest of their stuff is limited resin

It'd be nice to get my hands on some of the limited SW resin range. Or perhaps another stretch would be for us to get rules to include the current metal vanguard troops as some sort of light troops.

sparkywtf wrote:I could see why we probably haven't seen new tiles yet as a stretch.

The way he said they are made has to be VERY expensive. The whole thing is made up in 3D, then a top view shot is taken, then things added via photoshop.

There is no way that can be cheap nor quickly done. Getting a mold made up and casting for say a token or figure probably can be done in an afternoon (once the design is done)

Actually that isn't correct, that can indeed be done pretty cheaply and quickly, and is a very rapid way to output and iterate concept art. I do this all the time, set up the object or environment in 3D, render, use that as the lighting guide, overpaint the rest in photoshop... The objects and textures in the tiles are absolutely perfect for this method, and it is a very productive way of getting from A to B quickly without compromising results. I could, without exaggeration, output a board section in a few hours, certainly no more than a workday.

That is not to cheapen the results mind you, it takes a bit of training, practice and expensive programs and a lot of experience to do that, so please don't misread that I am implying 'the boards are easy anyone can do it'. At a professional level though, then yes, the boards are pretty easy and if you already have the software necessary, very, very cheap to create. It's a great workflow!

The printing and shipping costs however could be quite expensive comparatively as the weight of stock, size and lamination would cost a few bucks (mitigated by the every increasing quantity)... Probably not that big a deal in the grand scheme though taking everything into account.

I see it also looks like we will be seeing the 270k stretch hit in the next hour or two!

$400-ish to go for an extra tank!

Delephont wrote:You know, it's always heart warming to be reminded about the gaming community's response to humour.........

Oh so that's what that was. Right.

And we've got an extra tank!

Yay, double the tanks double the fun! (for vanguard that is!)

On the topic of the future, I hope the Firebrand Expansion comes with a lot of carapace armor. I could easily use +6 of them or so....

They just posted, another Grendlr is the $300k mark.

spiralingcadaver wrote:They just posted, another Grendlr is the $300k mark.

Cool. I get the feeling that might have been the reason they showed Grendlr off with their little talk about how the sculpting process works

I take it back. The zombiecide kickstarter did very well and had horrible stretch goals with bad packing, some over $100k apart just to unlock an alternative sculpt! Since everyone is comparing the two, I think SW is going to kick some ass.

We'll make it to that I'm sure.

IdentifyZero wrote:I take it back. The zombiecide kickstarter did very well and had horrible stretch goals with bad packing, some over $100k apart just to unlock an alternative sculpt! Since everyone is comparing the two, I think SW is going to kick some ass.

Well to be fair, Zombicide was the first of the bunch to get really up there compared to all the other board games (until Ogre), they probably had no idea they would get that high and lot of their stretch goals are completely new/were meant for a future expansion. Most of the stuff here is already made, just needs to be converted to plastic and plus I think zombiecide really kinda set the foundations to stretch goals in the board game section. Other game developers could easily look at zombiecide's success and how they ran their kickstarter and find ways to make their own even better. Or it could be me just giving them too much credit

15 days is still a long way to go... plenty of time for folks to keep on pledging .. betcha it tops 400k in the end.

Necros wrote:15 days is still a long way to go... plenty of time for folks to keep on pledging .. betcha it tops 400k in the end.

More like over $500K!

And again, with the right stretch goals (which they seem to be doing with free miniatures), I wouldn't be surprised to see it finish up near Zombicide's $700K.

Fingers crossed for a female medic next.

Remember that Zombicide made $400K+/- in the last three days of its drive. Up until that point it was making about half what Sedition Wars is making per day (roughly). I'm not sure what drove the sudden interest in Zombicide - it could be that there were a lot of people late to the party (myself included), but it seems that people are onboard with Sedition Wars from the word go, so we mightn't see such a huge rush at the end.

Additionally a lot of the latter Zombicide stretch goals were kind've "We'll never make it this high, but..." style stretch goals. When they put up not-Ash at $700k they weren't expecting to make that in a day. Then they did...

This is just looking better and better, though I think I will wait until the last few days to pledge just to see exactly what I will get. But it already looks just as good of a deal as Zombicide, so I am almost certain I will be pledging.

This looks interesting. Will probably pick this up just to paint it. Anyone know how the game plays?

Avariel wrote:This looks interesting. Will probably pick this up just to paint it. Anyone know how the game plays?

Theres a short gameplay intro video. Tons of dice rolling to see things get vaporized

CURNOW wrote:what could they do ?

Personally I would like some more sprues of troops but a good goal would be some more kickstarter specific characters. That is what seemed to do it for zombicide.

General Seric wrote:This is just looking better and better, though I think I will wait until the last few days to pledge just to see exactly what I will get. But it already looks just as good of a deal as Zombicide, so I am almost certain I will be pledging.

There is an inherent flaw in that plan.

Let's say there is 200 people who think the same way as you (not entirely out of the question) who also want to get the $100 game but are waiting for the last day "to see exactly what I will get."

Well that means on the last day approx $20,000 gets dumped in by those 200 people. 20k is not an unusual amount for a stretch goal so you might have achieved a last minute rush to get a whosit or a whatsit.

HOWEVER if those 200 people were happy getting the insane value that is already available and put in the pledges a week or so in from the end (or earlier, whenever they feel it is of sufficient value) then you get to jump the total and another Stretch goal might be posted which gives even more people incentive to put their money down and those 200 people might get even more value for the $100 they put down.


TL;DR - If you think you want to pledge, do so when the starter hits a level you like. If you are worried you might miss out on cool extras, don't worry! You can ammend your pledge until the end of the starter.

Hey guys,

I am normally on Boardgamegeek mostly nowadays and only now saw this game being offered on Kickstarter via this thread.

I only mention this because the membership at Boardgamegeek is tremendous, to put it lightly. It's member list is staggering.

This game has sort of fallen through the cracks there. The success of many Kickstarter games can, in part, be attributed to promotion on that site.

In an effort to help promote the game, I recommend everyone who wants to get those stretch goals filled in a big way, the likes of which would even shame Zombicide, then go to Boardgame geek and check out the following link.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/125326/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster

Just spending time perusing that site is enough to get the game into the "Hotness" list on that site which just further adds exposure to the game.

Even better is to register there if you are not already a member and become part of the community discussing such there.

I am not trying to siphon off members from here to go there, just to spend a bit of time perusing the discussions/pictures and other info on that page in order to help in some small way.

Thanks Dakka. Lets beat the record set by Steve Jacksons OGRE and show them how to really add content to a game.

Hellfury wrote:Lets beat the record set by Steve Jacksons OGRE and show them how to really add content to a game.

Ehhh I doubt we can beat Ogre, they got a two in one with their Carwars thingy. And Steve Jackson imo is a tad more known with casual board gamers thanks to things like Munchkin. And theres the nostalgia factor.

Great suggestion Hellfury, I will do just that.

I don't think anyone here would take your message as 'syphoning' off membership, it's a big internet with broad interests, I think I can speak for all the Dakka staff when I say we do not feel competitive with other sites, it's about doing good things for the community, if you are doing something positive, your members will stay. Being members of one forum doesn't make you the enemy of another in our eyes. Hell, I am a member at B&C, 40kRadio and Coolmini, doesn't make me love Dakka any less! In fact, it's a great way to share good ideas and info

Anyhow, the point is you have presented a great suggestion that could help Mike and Ali, and I for one applaud you for the effort and considered tone in which it was presented, Cheers!

Understood.

I know the powers at be at Dakka are big boardgamers themselves for a long time.
I just didnt want anyone feeling like I was trying to siphon and wanted to cut that off at the bud.

Vain wrote:

General Seric wrote:This is just looking better and better, though I think I will wait until the last few days to pledge just to see exactly what I will get. But it already looks just as good of a deal as Zombicide, so I am almost certain I will be pledging.

There is an inherent flaw in that plan.

Let's say there is 200 people who think the same way as you (not entirely out of the question) who also want to get the $100 game but are waiting for the last day "to see exactly what I will get."

Well that means on the last day approx $20,000 gets dumped in by those 200 people. 20k is not an unusual amount for a stretch goal so you might have achieved a last minute rush to get a whosit or a whatsit.

HOWEVER if those 200 people were happy getting the insane value that is already available and put in the pledges a week or so in from the end (or earlier, whenever they feel it is of sufficient value) then you get to jump the total and another Stretch goal might be posted which gives even more people incentive to put their money down and those 200 people might get even more value for the $100 they put down.


TL;DR - If you think you want to pledge, do so when the starter hits a level you like. If you are worried you might miss out on cool extras, don't worry! You can ammend your pledge until the end of the starter.

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of it that way. I will now likely pledge 2-3 days before the end to allow the pledge to impact stretch goals. Good suggestion

If you're already insterested in the game, what do you gain by waiting rather than pledging now and showing your interest as soon as possible?

insaniak wrote:If you're already insterested in the game, what do you gain by waiting rather than pledging now and showing your interest as soon as possible?

Some people just really want to wait for a stretch goal to push them I guess

Pledge early.

The reason being is that if enough pledges are made prior to the end, then the ending stretch goals will be all the more bountiful (assumption based on previous performance of other notable kickstarter games).

Pledging late is the paranoid way out and everybody's rewards are potentially less for it.

[edit]
And if you think what you are getting by the end sucks, then you can always pull your pledge. Not recommended but still a possibility.

kenshin620 wrote:

insaniak wrote:If you're already insterested in the game, what do you gain by waiting rather than pledging now and showing your interest as soon as possible?

Some people just really want to wait for a stretch goal to push them I guess

I am very interested, but I would like to wait until near the end to make my final decision. This is mainly because I have been making a lot of wargaming purchases recently, ($100 for Zombicide, >$100 for my German army for FoW) and would like to really consider this purchase. I will like to see what other extras I will get with this and then make my final decision on whether I want to spend another $100 or not.


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Hellfury wrote:
And if you think what you are getting by the end sucks, then you can always pull your pledge. Not recommended but still a possibility.

You can do that? I hadn't realized that, this was the main reason I was not putting down my money, because I feared I might regret the purchase as an impulse buy later on.

Though I could see why this could be a bad thing for the company doing the kickstarter too...

That's why it's not recommended, but still a possibility.

The ethical thing to do (IMO) is if you pledge to stick with it. But the project is way past being funded so I doubt there is any if much worry that funds will be withdrawn be pledgers.

However, extenuating circumstances may arise to where you may need to save the funds by that time.
I think the cut off point for withdrawing a pledge is 48 hours before the project on kickstarter is ending, IIRC.

How does BGG figure out if a game is hotness or notness? SW has 73 likes, but the last one on their hotness list has like 14...

Necros wrote:How does BGG figure out if a game is hotness or notness? SW has 73 likes, but the last one on their hotness list has like 14...

Oddly enough, the time visitors spend on specific game pages figures in to what is in the hotness list. Dont ask me why, this is just what the mods there have revealed.

This is why Star wars epic duels is currently in the hotness list, despite low internal intrest in the game. An external site linked to that page and it is rather high in the hotness there, much to the confusion of many users on BGG.
The hotness list is a constantly evolving thing, showing general interest of visitors of that site and what they visit there and for how long.

This is why simply visiting this link...
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/125326/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster
...can help elevate it if enough unique users hit that link.

Necros wrote:How does BGG figure out if a game is hotness or notness? SW has 73 likes, but the last one on their hotness list has like 14...

The first game on the list has 12 likes, seems a bit odd...

Oh .. and here I always thought it was based on sales figures and stuff

Alpharius wrote:

Necros wrote:15 days is still a long way to go... plenty of time for folks to keep on pledging .. betcha it tops 400k in the end.

More like over $500K!

And again, with the right stretch goals (which they seem to be doing with free miniatures), I wouldn't be surprised to see it finish up near Zombicide's $700K.

I dunno. that's close to (and more than) doubling their current pledge level. They'd need an awful lot of new blood to come in and pledge to get that high. I mean, I hope they do, but I wouldn't count on it. They'd have to keep adding more optional extras, which I'm less keen on since I'm pretty much at max right now, and I'm surer a lot of others are already at the end of their stretch funds for Kickstarters...


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H.B.M.C. wrote:Remember that Zombicide made $400K+/- in the last three days of its drive. Up until that point it was making about half what Sedition Wars is making per day (roughly). I'm not sure what drove the sudden interest in Zombicide - it could be that there were a lot of people late to the party (myself included), but it seems that people are onboard with Sedition Wars from the word go, so we mightn't see such a huge rush at the end.

Additionally a lot of the latter Zombicide stretch goals were kind've "We'll never make it this high, but..." style stretch goals. When they put up not-Ash at $700k they weren't expecting to make that in a day. Then they did...

Hm, so Mike needs to put up a ton of space-versions of Ash, Shaun, Dutch, John, John, Alice, and some Cyberdyne, Winston and Hans-Rudi -inspired models in the next week and a half to go with Ellen.

Hm, that might be a good idea, actually. Best get Kev White busy, quicksmart!


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insaniak wrote:If you're already insterested in the game, what do you gain by waiting rather than pledging now and showing your interest as soon as possible?

Making sure I can afford what I'd like to pledge. For me, we're talking hundreds each for SW and Mantic a week apart. If I could pay them and be done, it'd be one thing. Since I need to pledge and then have the money available in the appropriate account on the "charge" day, I need to look out for exchange rates (see what our dollar did a couple of weeks ago?) and also other bills, emergencies etc that unfortunately have a higher priority than toy soldiers and may wipe away the discretionary funds that get used for this stuff.. e.g.: I had to get the grill and oven fixed recently - $320 gone, just like that.

Moreso, if something happens and I forget that I've pledged, then my account might end up overdrawn - if you or a loved one gets sick, you might have to pay extra bills and be so preoccupied and forget that Kickstarter is going to charge your account $300 on this or that specific day...

if McMantic et al want to cover people like me who hold out for the last minute, put several stretch goals up at once. Not one at a time. (Mantic has been doing this reasonably well at times).

Alice would work nicely with all those Strain around. The infected version would have to look identical and you could have multiples of her in play at once*

*Though that game will end in defeat for the Alice player, with only one survivor

scipio.au wrote:Moreso, if something happens and I forget that I've pledged, then my account might end up overdrawn - if you or a loved one gets sick, you might have to pay extra bills and be so preoccupied and forget that Kickstarter is going to charge your account $300 on this or that specific day...

Ok now stop. Now you're just being hysterical/pedantic. This kickstarter sends you 2 E-mails a day. You won't forget. And you can cancel a pledge at any time before the end, and after its over. Calm down.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

scipio.au wrote:Moreso, if something happens and I forget that I've pledged, then my account might end up overdrawn - if you or a loved one gets sick, you might have to pay extra bills and be so preoccupied and forget that Kickstarter is going to charge your account $300 on this or that specific day...

Ok now stop. Now you're just being hysterical/pedantic. This kickstarter sends you 2 E-mails a day. You won't forget. And you can cancel a pledge at any time before the end, and after its over. Calm down.

I'm plenty calm. I have no intention of pledging until the last day. If this dissatisfies you, you're more than welcome to pledge on my behalf and pay for my toys. I've given several reasons - and it does happen that I can spend days away from my computer for various reasons (gasp!) and I have forgotten things like "important" eBay auctions plenty of times. And frankly, the dollar is a major concern right now. How much are you pledging between the two, Mr. Big Shot? My potential spend between the two is around $600 within two consecutive weekends. Plenty of things can blow a hole in that.

Above all else, I'm reserving my right to change my mind at the last minute for any reason I might have.

If you can't accept that, you're welcome to STHU.

That's not a nice thing to say. Unless it's some sort of fruity acronym.

Yeah, I agree HMBC's post was uncalled for. Shall we move on now?

Awww, that's so cute, you removed it. Good boy.

I think they've pretty much exploited all the figures with their stretch goals up to this point. We have double of the the good guys/bad guys, and now, the tank.

If they're going to push farther (A LOT) farther, you're going to have to see new sculpts, and/or new characters (plus the strain version if possible) with scenarios based around them. I'd be willing to wait on the newest sculpts, even if they didn't ship with the game right away.

BrookM wrote:Awww, that's so cute, you removed it. Good boy.

Well, I changed it. Twice, actually. Once before I posted and once after. You're welcome to do any or all of the three though if you want to carry on butting in with pointless trolling.

Moopy wrote:I think they've pretty much exploited all the figures with their stretch goals up to this point. We have double of the the good guys/bad guys, and now, the tank.

If they're going to push farther (A LOT) farther, you're going to have to see new sculpts, and/or new characters (plus the strain version if possible) with scenarios based around them. I'd be willing to wait on the newest sculpts, even if they didn't ship with the game right away.

Agreed. I listed some tongue-in-cheek ones earlier. The problem as I see it more realistically though is that with the amount of stuff already being given away at $100, additional stretch goals will either have to be more "add-ons" like the "Lights Out" stuff and scenery packs, which costs an extra $30/50 a pop or stretch goals that affect add-ons - like the Ripley figure. The painting DVD and solo campaign are both nice "out of the square" rewards, but for both, a lot of people just bleated about not getting more figures for the same money they'd already pledged. I mean, how many extra $30 and $50 add-ons will people be willing to cough up for before the extras start to cannibalise themselves?

Really though, unless they come up with more "outside the square" rewards that people value, it's probably going to have to be Mantic-(or AoW) style shortly where people are pledging based on concept images. Actually, Ridley was already one of those, and a "buy me" add-on, so there we go...

The only extras that I can think of as easy stretches are to either offer extra packs of the same boards, make the boards single sided so you can have larger/more complex maps... or new boards.

I guess there's also the possibility of turning the other card counters into plastic chits as well, or art books.

After that you're into new model/expansion territory which isn't really stretch goals as such as they would have to be bought separately.

Can't wait to see what they come up with though as we're already a third of the way towards the $300k goal in 10 hours.

scipio.au wrote:I'm plenty calm.

Your blathering after that seems to indicate otherwise.

Additional stuff could be easy to do.
Some examples being:

* Additional map tiles. Making one or two new map tiles is purely a graphic design hurdle and easier to do than milling a new mold for models.

* Release the terrain simultaneously with the game. This is a no brainer really by bumping production up. Who wants to wait another half a year before they can add that to their games? I imagine half of the people will have moved on from the game by that point making the terrain set a huge loss at the retail level. Best to strike while the iron is hot.

* Alternate unit abilities on cards for models already provided. Don't need many. Perhaps just variant rules for the character models.

* Additional scenario book. This would especially be needed if new tiles were made.

* Throw the Sharro model into the plastic mold. The sculpting is already done. May as well use it if it fits within the Vanguard background.

* Throw in previously made models like the one in this link of Kara: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HCPanLbUnrc/TKt50Nr_76I/AAAAAAAADEM/6lylOzRHQA8/s1600/kara_group.jpg


Ideas I am not fond of include stuff like the battlefoam insert from Zombicide. That stretch goal caused me to yawn for days.
Actually, I am not fond of any reward level for additional stuff that I have to buy. Yay! We have unlocked the ability for me to spend more money! No thanks.
I imagine I am not alone because I doubt the majority of people are buying more than just the game. Are the clear plastic glowey models really that cool? From a modelling perspective I find that hard to beleive.

Sharro and that Kara are too big to fit into this range as they were part of the larger scale collector models. Both would need to be redone, or scanned and shrunk digitally.

Ahh. I was not aware of that. Thanks for the clarification.

I guess a second Zosa would be useful so we can have one flamer and one pulse canon to swap between. Currently we get the bits for both weapons, but only one body.

You can cancel your pledge if you like with no charge whatsoever.

There is zero reason to not get in early with these kickstarter thingies.

A note on Sharro - she is 30mm in height and Rob Baxter confirmed she is part of the Sedition Wars universe. However, she isn't Vanguard or Firebrand...

the only extra ive go for is the clear plastic and then only as i want to paint them up as if there phaseing out of there camo cloak ..

im not that interested with the stuff that i have to wait till early next year tbh.

so im looking for stuff like a short story novela or something that adds gameplay .

the thing is anything free they add now has to be something that isnt going to eat that far into the profit margin ..especialy as they would need to give away 2000+ of them ..

Which is usually off set by the larger amount of $100+ sets they then sell!

Exhibit A: Zombicide!

Hellfury wrote:Oddly enough, the time visitors spend on specific game pages figures in to what is in the hotness list. Dont ask me why, this is just what the mods there have revealed.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/125326/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster

So just opening that link and leaving it open would work?

Hellfury wrote:* Additional map tiles. Making one or two new map tiles is purely a graphic design hurdle and easier to do than milling a new mold for models.

Or doing the boards single-sided, or releasing the boards separately as an added extra. Or both!

I'd buy both... I'm a complete tile'o'phile...

I think it's much more likely to be the level of activity on a page, rather than how long you have the page open; so it would be the number of hits a product page gets as well as how active the sub-forum is.


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H.B.M.C. wrote:I'd buy both... I'm a complete tile'o'phile...

Is that a known medical condition?

Actually - it is!

Sadly, there is no cure, so to speak, only means to lessen the suffering...

So WotC are actually secretly a pharmaceutical company? it explains a few things...

A nice post from Mike. Especially prudent for those with existing Vanguard minis:

Mike wrote:
We definitely have plans for rolling those original Vanguard miniatures into the game, at the very least we'll provide stats for them, so they are playable. We see them as a different type of Vanguard trooper - obviously without the protection of the Prophet armour though.

If you're already insterested in the game, what do you gain by waiting rather than pledging now and showing your interest as soon as possible?

If it were a year ago, absolutely.

The only reason I am waiting so far with my Kickstarter pledge is that it's all well and good to be able to drop hundreds of dollars on miniatures, multiple Kickstarters, and Forgeworld Titans. Those that are well-off enough to do that in this economy, I applaud them. But I'm a bit hesitant about the extras I want to get with SW.

Because unfortunately, I also have a "pledge" of my own, it's called "getting married" on the day the Kickstarter ends. I would love to get the Biohazard level, the terrain, Ridley and the Opticamo Vanguard- but it hurts when that's $170 on a day that I am already "in" for $5,000 on something else...........

I'm excited personally about the second Grendlr. I think the two of them will make awesome plastic Tyrand Guard w/whips. Add in the Brimstones as my new Hive Guard and I'm a happy camper.

I would like the option to buy additional Lvl 3 Strain sets (similar to the stretch goal) and grav tanks. Just from a personal perspective as I'd like to have 9 Brimstones or at least 6 and currently without buying two full boxsets I can only get 4

im sure there will be plenty of people looking to swap there strain for vanguard then they recive them so you shouldnt have much of a problem getting more brimstones.

But I want my Vanguard too

I'd also like to pick up more Hurley's on the side for some conversion ideas I have

lol greedy

Pretty models means I wanna use them

Having read through all this, it's important to note that the biggest grossing Kickstarters usually make 20-25% of their total gross in the last 3-4 days of their time. I think this one will most likely be the same.

Stretch goals to accomplish that, and ratchet up the "social excitement", which this site is explicitly for, is the way to do that. However, free items for the base cost are not necessarily the way to do it. These provide great value for the investor, but do not ratchet up the actual investment for the company.

Here are some stretch goals that might actually do this:

1. As some of these models/goals aren't shipping until next year already, why not offer the next expansion, at $60-$75, as it's already been stated to be a smaller expansion. This would cover the angst that some feel over wanting more boards, as well as introduce the Fire Brand. Another goal beyond that would be to add more Fire Brand to that Kickstarter set. This would also segue funds towards that expansion, allowing it to be developed earlier.

2. Since we have a plethora of figures now, how about some Necromunda-esqe Skirmish Rules, where your figures grow and are persistent. Strain start out as level 1s, and you gain abilities or can put those points towards morphing into the bigger Strains. Vanguard start out as grunts, working up to being famed captains, snipers and medics. I'd prefer this much more than multiple one off games, and we have enough minis to support 4 or 5 people playing with just the base game. Releasing these rules digitally would mean low actual cost, but provide maximum return to investors. A further stretch goal would be a "customization" pack, of things like tentacles, claws, etc for the Strain, pistol arms, HTH arms etc for Vanguard, so that players can upgrade their figures as they gain skills and abilities. This is the perfect avenue to entice players to have the camo and GiTD figures, as these are now viable upgrades in a persistant skirmish system. Opticamo means stealthy movement, minuses to hit (or a plus to the armor rating). GiTD can mean that they are super Strain, more resilient, higher amor, etc etc. More sales of these means more goals reached.

3. If all we want is to go for an overall dollar figure, then visualizing and offering more one-off figures like Ripley and her strain double are the way to go. This adds more money to the overall Kickstarter, while delivering value to pledger. The dice they offered were ok on this one, I just don't the designs really captured everyone. I've read where a lot of people are clamoring for GiTD dice. This is another easy way to up the pledges, as it is what your gaggle of pledgers are asking for. On another Kickstarter, an additional Die was added to your game with each $ dollar level reached. This Kickstarter could easily do this in $50k, $75k or $100k increments. Also, I personally am not nostalgic about the numbers on the Dice, as 1980s D&D dice don't do it for me. I'd prefer to see regular dice, with one or two graven images on them, as in this game it's really just the 6s that count.

4. McVey Studios keeps hinting that there will be larger models for both the Strain and Vanguard. Why not offer these up for sale? They won't be any good til the tabletop game is released, but why not introduce them now, when they'll make the most splash. The Vanguard will probably have some kind of techy looking suits. Maybe the Strain have a Hulk or four armed Behemoth.

5. Looking at other Kickstarters, and their pledging levels, this one hasn't opened up an avenue that I think a lot of people would jump at. Why not have a pledge level where people can be incorporated into the game. I.E. At this $ amount, you will be written into the fluff as an elite Vanguard Lieutenant/Sniper/Engineer/Scientist etc, or why not have alt copies of the Strain, kind of like patient zero's, where the pledger works with the Studio to reach the end model. Or you could be a Fire Brand revolutionary. These are all ways to up their operating capital while giving value to those pledgers. Offer to make someone the evil corporate head that Kara was talking about in one of the fiction pieces that we got. This is the most cost efficient way to get people to become invested in your universe, to kick the feeling of your game and its setting into overdrive for some people, as they become immortalized in word and print. Plus, it will help drive the background and fluff, as the Studio writes more, in turn making more people want to immerse themselves in the broader and deeper universe that you are giving them.


Etc. CMoN should really be on top of this. I know that the middle period is usually sluggish, but why cater to that with sluggish goals? You only get your fixed shot at this, so why not bring your A game to the table. I know that this Kickstarter is still garnering a large amount of attention each day, but there have been some lackluster goals lately. The AI Drone and Grendlr are great, but the other stuff has been kind of ho hum. I am wanting more content, something to broaden it. No, not content as in physical figures, but CONTENT. Make the game better, make it continue. Follow up where GW delivered big time with Space Hulk, but couldn't be bothered to deliver anything else. Super Dungeon Explore is fantastic. But if you can't deliver expansion, new rules or anything else within 6 months, then the excitement has moved on to something else. Given a choice, I really want a persistent skirmish game, and this looks like it has all the hallmarks to be one.

Well said.

I'd agree that the One-off figures at this point would probably be one of only two ways to get me to increase my intial amounts. The one-offs with their strain versions would be amazing. I'd point out that one of the largest surges so far was when Ripley and the Terrain set came out.

I'd also agree that there is nothing wrong with starting to use this for the expansion. If you have ideas and concepts then you can run wild as the funding will be there for you. Get the expansion set-up with model types and characters (allowing more one-off type characters since they could be for other factions) while the iron is hot.

This would allow you to focus on getting the expansion ready to launch within 6ish months of Sedition Wars and the next Kickstarter could be for the skirmish/tabletop game which I think would explode for it.

I agree. I think you have to keep putting out new content, or you are going to lose some of your customer base. Just look at all the big companies, they continually offer new "things" for their games, to keep the interest up. I think in this digital age though, that taking more of what your customer base wants to see and delivering it is a much smarter idea. Giving the public what the company thinks is a great idea, isn't always a great idea. Just look to GW and whatever they call the new SM mini flyer.

Also, some character growth would be great. Super Dungeon Explore is great, and gives us the video game feel of loot grabbing, but it doesn't deliver the character evolution. I want my cute little chibi guy to get better, to go from armor toting knight to paladin to cavalier. Instead, I get to loot grab. And the extreme wait between expansions is already shedding customer base. No content hits on their website, no real bleeps on the radar minus at a convention or two, and then not any big splashes of information hyping anything to keep the interest up.

I just hope that this board game feeds into a much deeper, richer gaming experience. Tabletop, Persistent Skirmish, Novels. Hell, they're foolish if they don't have someone doing short multi-page fluff pieces to sprinkle liberally across the internet and their site. They should do it 1940s era newspaper Serial style. Keep a running story going, giving out a page or three every other day or so, sinking that hook deeper and deeper into the mouths of all the ravenous fish, er, gamers that are already hooked on their setting. What better way to keep the current interest going, drum up new interest in people being exposed for the first time, and to generally just spread the word about theit project and game. Digital media is the ultimate expression for today. Being able to get that media to move about the internet on its own should be their goal. That would attract more backers and investors. Unfortunately, through no fault of their own, as the Studio is a miniatures design company, their cooperative partner is not marketing their brand as functionally and effectively as is possible, especially with the level of response noted since this Kickstarter began.

Salacious Greed wrote:I just hope that this board game feeds into a much deeper, richer gaming experience. Tabletop, Persistent Skirmish, Novels.

You may well get the novels:

Rob Baxter wrote:"If we hit $500,000 I'll write a novel. I'm going to regret saying that."
"If we hit a million, I'll write a trilogy."

Hellfury wrote:* Additional map tiles. Making one or two new map tiles is purely a graphic design hurdle and easier to do than milling a new mold for models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Or doing the boards single-sided, or releasing the boards separately as an added extra. Or both!

Since the boards are double sided (presumably with no duplication) and they are already printing them, they could simply offer an extra set of boards, which would double the size of the game board.

T

I'd be happy with that.

timd wrote:

Hellfury wrote:* Additional map tiles. Making one or two new map tiles is purely a graphic design hurdle and easier to do than milling a new mold for models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Or doing the boards single-sided, or releasing the boards separately as an added extra. Or both!

Since the boards are double sided (presumably with no duplication) and they are already printing them, they could simply offer an extra set of boards, which would double the size of the game board.

T

Almost need it with all the miniatures, that would also make it far easier to do skirmish type games.

Not that I wouldn't love more tiles, but as far as I know the squares are inches, so go grid-less and just convert the "squares" to inches and set up a free-form battlefield like you would for other skirmish games.

That's what I'm gonna be doing. Doing the exact same thing with my copy of Tyranid Attack (the US version of Advanced Space Crusade) is what got me into WH40K (and all tabletop wargaming in general) all those years (17 of them!!) ago.

Half the reason I want this game with all it's extra stretch goal minis is to do that all over again now that I'm 30.

AegisGrimm wrote:Not that I wouldn't love more tiles, but as far as I know the squares are inches, so go grid-less and just convert the "squares" to inches and set up a free-form battlefield like you would for other skirmish games.

That's what I'm gonna be doing. Doing the exact same thing with my copy of Tyranid Attack (the US version of Advanced Space Crusade) is what got me into WH40K (and all tabletop wargaming in general) all those years (17 of them!!) ago.

Half the reason I want this game with all it's extra stretch goal minis is to do that all over again now that I'm 30.

THAT would be a good extra: tiles without grid, $25 or so added extra.
then next up a lot more 3D terrain to go with it for $lots it would be a nice boost

AlexHolker wrote:

Rob Baxter wrote:"If we hit $500,000 I'll write a novel. I'm going to regret saying that."
"If we hit a million, I'll write a trilogy."

Rob won't be the only one regretting that, I'm sure.

I know it has been mentioned a few times, but I think a set of Phase 1 infected versions of the four Vanguard characters as an add-on would be a good goal - gives you "custom" Strain to use when a notable hero goes down...

AlexHolker wrote:

Salacious Greed wrote:I just hope that this board game feeds into a much deeper, richer gaming experience. Tabletop, Persistent Skirmish, Novels.

You may well get the novels:

Rob Baxter wrote:"If we hit $500,000 I'll write a novel. I'm going to regret saying that."
"If we hit a million, I'll write a trilogy."

Persistent Skirmish (necromunda-style) rules would be fab. I don't give two hoots about the fluff though. I'm just over "new and not-at-all-unique" campaign settings for various tabletop games. Same deal with videogames, really. There are just too many new IPs for me to care about any of them in terms of IP. Just as with computer and video games, I'll happily play the games if they're fun, but it's going to be very hard to make me actually care about the characters in Sedition Wars, just as I don't care about Marcus Fenix or Master Chief or whoever the protaganists are in the Resistance series.

It's a rare IP indeed that interests me beyond the game. 40k really only gets a pass due to it being created in my formative years and having grown up with it. Warcraft gets a pass because I've spent a lot of time deep in there over the last decade. While I liked Medal of Honor, do I care about Rabbit? Can I remember which one he is? Does the atmospheric intro to Sedition Wars really do anything amazing or new or is it just paragraph of recycled Aliens-wannabe fluff? Where's that LEVEL 7 [Escape] thread?

So yeah. Nice miniatures, great value, hopefully the game kicks arse. Don't care about the fluff in the slightest, and if the game turns out to be gakky I've gotten a great value deal on a huge pile of very good quality miniatures that I can use for anything else I like. I've got no problems with SW at this stage, but I don't think they need to rush out an expansion either.




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timd wrote:

Hellfury wrote:* Additional map tiles. Making one or two new map tiles is purely a graphic design hurdle and easier to do than milling a new mold for models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Or doing the boards single-sided, or releasing the boards separately as an added extra. Or both!

Since the boards are double sided (presumably with no duplication) and they are already printing them, they could simply offer an extra set of boards, which would double the size of the game board.

They're already giving away pretty much a full set of extra models and dice. An extra set of freebie boards would basically be giving away a second set of each game. Besides, floor tiles and boards on any decent kinds of cardstock are heavy as all hell. As a pay-for extra, sure. But if you want them that bad you can always buy a second Biohazard set (ie "We've got Movement"), which is what I plan to do at this stage. I mean, I want lots of stuff as much as the next guy, but I want them to have much success with this, so I ironically wouldn't want them giving too much more away for free in terms of stuff you already get in the box. That's why the painting DVD and extra campaign work so well.

OTOH, I wouldn't be willing to pay an extra $60 or $70 sight unseen for an expansion for a game I haven't played, don't know if I'll like and won't even have in my hands until Sept-Oct.

Personally I enjoy fluff, and think that it helps give a game a context and depth beyond the likes of Monoploy or Connect 4.

I'd go as far as saying, IMHO, a game in the Tabletop wargaming and RPG genre NEEDS fluff in order to generate growth and further development, otherwise, in this case, if Studio McVey does go forward to create expansions and other game formats, what would be the context??

I love playing Chess and Risk, these are games that are "largely" devoid of any fluff, and they're great pick up and put down games.....

Delephont wrote:Personally I enjoy fluff, and think that it helps give a game a context and depth beyond the likes of Monoploy or Connect 4.

I'd go as far as saying, IMHO, a game in the Tabletop wargaming and RPG genre NEEDS fluff in order to generate growth and further development, otherwise, in this case, if Studio McVey does go forward to create expansions and other game formats, what would be the context??

I love playing Chess and Risk, these are games that are "largely" devoid of any fluff, and they're great pick up and put down games.....

I understand where you're coming from - I used to really be interested in fluff, but over the years (between RPGs, Miniatures games and video/computer games) I've seen so many generic fantasy and sci-fi worlds/universes that are pretty much all 90% similar to one another that I've stopped caring about almost any of them. Fluff burnout maybe? Remember Warzone? I've got books and books of rules and fluff from that game that noone will ever care about again. I'm thinking a bunch of those models will see some new life with Incursion, though.

Since this is a boardgame, so at the moment it doesn't really need much fluff beyond the very basic level this one has. When they go to expand it, I'll grant that it'll need more of it then, but I'd much prefer they stick to making games than getting too distracted by doing things like writing derivitive sci-fi novels. I'm not saying game-based fluff is a particularly bad thing or anything like that - just that I'm personally never going to care about another game's worth of derivative hack sci-fi or fantasy writing. Because there are too many of these "universes" around, and most really aren't much different to one another, so I'm pretty much over them all. SW's universe from what I can tell may as well be the same as the Alien franchise.

@Scipio.au

I understand what you mean, and to a large extent I agree, most of the Sci Fi fluff really just mirrors everything else....

I disagree that a company needs to focus on the Game or the fluff exclusively, the two could be done in parallel if the investment is there to "outsource" the writing etc, leaving the original company to focus on its core competence - in this case for Studio McVey that may be the games development.

Another thing to consider, when we think about fluff, "we" I guess figure on the fluff somehow supporting the game directly, so what I mean is, because it's a war game, the books should all be about war and the bearing of arms.....this is generally the format that companies like GW have explored.

I'd like to see companies thinking outside the box, as it were, fluff IMHO is an opportunity to explore the particular games setting away from the drudge of constant conflict, maybe focusing on politics, everyday life, entertainment, basically all the other interesting stuff that makes up a society, of which war is only really a small part.

Just going slightly off topic, Infinity is a setting that could really explore this, imagine a book focused on the production , politics and suspense surrounding the Silk drug used for their reincarnation program....sure there would be aspects of the book that discussed "fighting" but the book wouldn't be a big war-fired extravaganza that GW seems obsessed with producing.

I dare say the same could be said about Sedition Wars......now that would be fluff worth getting into, and I think it would make the game so much richer for its creation.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "exclusively". I'm not averse to having a bunch of fluff text within the rulebook (similar to a GW codex), and if they were to produce a tabletop RPG, then of course all that stuff is useful and needs to be explored. But for miniatures and especially boardgames.. not so much. Fluff within the rules is plenty for those, I'd think.

I know next to nothing about Infinity, so I'll decline from specific comment, but it seems to be yet another sci-fi setting where the earth has broken up into new factions that aren't called America and Russia and China and are simply somewhat kind of based on them (see, Warzone, WarMachine, et al). I do like their non-GrimDark visual style, but even if I invested in a force and had people to play against I doubt I'd get too far into the Pan-Oceanic federation's reasons for being. But for SW, I just see the finances needed to write and publish a book and then get it into book distribution channels to be a bit of a big undertaking for a very small, 2-person company about to release their very first game. I wonder how much (wasted) effort is going into LEVEL 7 on PP's part? I'd like to see Mike work on what he does well and slowly expand that - which is what he's doing now. Books and such can come later, but while the kickstarter is a runaway success, the game is not yet one, so that's where the focus should be for the next however long it needs to be...

Just though I would tell everyone that SW has made it on to "The Hotness" list for Board Game Geek. Hopefully this will give it more attention and interest, and help achieve some more stretch goals.

Wow... if they had the option for the whole thing to be glow in the dark, I don't think I'd be able to resist

Luckily, I don't think they will!

@Scipio.au

I agree with you about this being a board game. However, I believe that the entire intent with this enterprise is to end at a tabletop wargame. So, they should be striving towards that end. I don't believe they were ready for the runaway success that this Kickstarter is. It is kind of evident with the stretch goals. I believe that we're already past the point of diminishing returns on their box set. They've pretty much already doubled every miniature in the game, so just counters and tiles remain to be doubled, and they've already upgraded the counters.

Saying that they can better market their game by giving us a better understanding about their universe isn't something they COULD do. It's something they should be doing! Strike while the iron is hot. Cash in on the branding. And talking about fluff in context to the characters in this game, I am with you. I won't be attached to any of these characters. I was talking about being attached to characters as they grow in a persistent skirmish environment, meaning characters I've made, that I attach value to over the course of the skirmish games I play. And come on, you know there's going to be one zombie that just doesn't die in your games that you'll become attached to, or being on the other side, you'll start sacrificing guys just to kill him during your skirmish games. But this being JUST a boardgame, where I can queue up the same figures in the next scenario regardless, just doesn't do it for me. 40k allows me to use real tactics. This game seems to devolve into chokepoints on a fixed board. I'm not seeing any depth of play right now, and this Kickstarter seems to be more about an initial figure grab for a later tabletop game.

But back to the main point. With the success of this Kickstarter, they should have someone write a novel in parallel, so that it can hit the market shortly after this game ships. Because right now, all we really know about their setting is that it is a rebellion on the fringes of Human space, and the Strain has just started as an infection in the middle of the Vanguard putting down the Firebrand rebellion. We don't know anything about the actual Core Corporate Army, or any of the alien species encountered in the Human expansion. So they could give us a novel detailing the rebellion, and how this viral infection grows into a plague, but seems to have a focus and goals. It could also set the overall atmosphere of the setting, and how star systems and planets are governed, and whether there are competing corporations, or just the one. Etc ad nauseum. But they should actually be spoon feeding us some of this stuff DAILY! Hell, how do you have something this successful, and we don't hear from you or your distributor every day?

As to you saying that the focus should be on the game. How? They can't give us anything more on the game until it's in our hands. The game is complete. It was most likely finished when they began the kickstarter. The Studio demo'd it in 2011 at GenCon. There can't be anymore focus on the game. I agree that the game isn't a runaway success. We haven't played it. I think it will end up like Space Hulk. Something that was fun for a bit. But leave us all wanting something a bit more. Give me more rules, make it mean something. There isn't anything in Space Hulk that broadens the gameplay, or makes it deeper. Nothing that makes it meaningful or enduring. Playing Risk isn't about the board or the pieces, it's about who you're playing against, and your tactics given a random start. It seems, from reading the playtesters remarks on the Studio forums, that this game will really become about controlling choke points on the few maps that can be made. So, regardless of finding new opponents, games will become repetitive, just like space hulk. See, space hulk doesn't even deserve capital letters anymore. It gathers dust on a shelf, because GW one-offed it and couldn't find its way to making money by expanding its gameplay. Having rabbit-holed away from your point though, Studio McVey has nothing but other things to devote their time to. This game is ready to be printed, QC'd, boxed, wrapped and shipped. There is no more gameplay to be figured out. To be a success beyond the close of this Kickstarter, they should be viewing goals and hurdles that are 6 and 12 months out. A company that is only focused on the Now is a company that is failing or already has. Good novels take 9-12 months to see the light of day. A game of this level takes at least 12 months, if not 18 or more. If these guys don't already have more things in the pipeline, already on paper, waiting to go, then I think they'll fall into the same pitfalls that Super Dungeon Explore did, and we won't hear anything from them and the success of this Kickstarter will fizzle out.

Hire some Marketing. Prod your producer! This is like getting a free kick in soccer, you weren't expecting this level of success. Bend it like Beckham, don't kick it in the crowd. Certainly don't slink off the field and let the goalie take the free kick. Nobody wants to see that.

If sedition wars gets popular enough, maybe we'll get an OVA

Hey it worked for Starship Troopers!

Starship Troopers was around for just a little while before the games and got the OVA on the IP

I'd rather not see this franchise go all Matt Wilson and think that it needs a crapton of tie-in media to work. Novels? Yes, but let's leave it at that.

Agreed. It's way easier to write a decent, low-budget novel (all you need is decent writing, proofing, editing, and preferably cover art) vs. a decent, low-budget film (roughly in order, writing, editing, casting, prop/set design, set construction, coordination, directing, lighting, acting, (film) editing, special effects, score, etc. etc.).

I also want to throw in that fluff is easily a third of why I play any given game.

Warmachine is a great example of this: they have a very solid rules set, and mostly nice minis, which I like painting, but, within weeks of getting annoyed with the writing style, I started dumping any excess bits of my collection and playing less frequently.

Space Hulk is enhanced by having no space marine grunts; Malifaux is enhanced by the personalities its characters have; etc. etc.

I'm not saying that all games need the best stories, or even need stories, but I'll state that, if Risk had a 1-paragraph story instead of just "the blue pieces," I'd connect to the game more.

I still play Space Hulk. I haven't touched Risk since I was a child. I really hope Studio McVey continues expanding the background.

I'd definitely buy a novel for SW, even if I wouldn't expect it to be very good. There are a lot of decent authors doing tie-n novels these days. Peter David, Alan Dean Foster or Simon Green could bang out a really fun story in a couple of months. Maybe if they hired a BL author or someone from Angry Robot it could be pretty decent. If they go with some hack like Karen Traviss or Kevin J Anderson, I'll keep my money.

Simon Green could probably knock it out pretty easy. Some of his creatures from his Deathstalker series are pretty similar

Either way I'm excited to see how far this goes. I've got about $250 max I can dump into this so I'm looking forward seeing what extras I can add

I am looking forward to this, and I think at least some online fluff for the major characters would be a boost to interest in the game. The mini's look good, and right now the game play appears to be solid. I am in.

6k to go and we're another gribbly richer.

FLUFF IS EXCITING!!!!!!

The fact that you're all sitting here talking about fluff says how boring the kickstarter goals are :(

I dunno, that's pretty subjective my Ontarian friend... IMO it's been going pretty damn well so far

I'll give you that it, other then the good Dr., it lacks the pop-culture-palooza that Zombiecide had going for it, but I don't think boring is quite right. We are kinda in the middle now, where the initial excitement has worn off, and before the crazy "if we hit $1,000,000 we will do a barrel roll" type stretchs. I'm sure Mike and Cmon are dreaming up some cool things for us. They have to know that the KS exclusive minis are what will push it further faster than anything else. I anticipate some ballin minis in about a 9 or 10 days during the final leg of it all.

I anticipate more of the "give us (x) additional funds and we'll give you (y)" type of goals vs. 'more free stuff'.

We might get another one or two 'free things' to entice more people to jump in for the $100 option, but nothing generates the extra revenue like the "for only $10 more" 'deals'!

Alpharius wrote:I anticipate more of the "give us (x) additional funds and we'll give you (y)" type of goals vs. 'more free stuff'.

We might get another one or two 'free things' to entice more people to jump in for the $100 option, but nothing generates the extra revenue like the "for only $10 more" 'deals'!

I would really like some more characters. Especially for the Strain, the scythe witch is begging for some more poses

@MajorTom

Our views must differ. I think that CMoN has just been along for the ride on this one, going to garner a nice slice of the KS $$s for not really doing anything to fuel the KS. Its been very hohum. The lack of fuel being added to the fire seems to point to a lackluster marketing campaign. I'll use a cliche to give my point of view: When given the option of $hit or get off the pot, they seem to have opted for getting off the pot.

On the point of what will be offered next, I also think the smart thing is to offer new miniatures for $$, as they will still get more new pledgers for the $100 level, but their odds are better to offer new spending opportunities. I just hope that Studio McVey is researching a lot of the other Most Successful KS's, and can use what worked for them here.

Y'know i was looking at the amount of backers just now. Mikes got an awful lot of prints to sign.....

Alpharius wrote:I anticipate more of the "give us (x) additional funds and we'll give you (y)" type of goals vs. 'more free stuff'.

We might get another one or two 'free things' to entice more people to jump in for the $100 option, but nothing generates the extra revenue like the "for only $10 more" 'deals'!

I guess either works for me. One way they might add enough stuff I want to the Biohazard deal to make it worthwhile, the other they might add stuff that I can buy anyway.

I do like the suggestion someone made of adding Shepard from Mass Effect as one of those "for only $X more" characters. On the other hand, I don't see much point in adding Infected versions of characters, if the Ridley one is anything to go by. Zombicide's zombified characters worked well, but the infected equivalent is pretty much unrecognisable.

MajorTom11 wrote:I dunno, that's pretty subjective my Ontarian friend... IMO it's been going pretty damn well so far

Oh it's going great man and I knew SW would do well from the first time I saw stuff from the range but I just have found the kickstarter to be kind of drying out a little. It's by all means incredibly successful without doing anything else. I just think more bonuses would be a great way to get more cash, as it stands this is already going to be taking a big chunk of cash of mine and it has the potential to take more if it starts to really become a boatload of extras.

It's already 30+ extra minis for $100 pledge. Imagine when another 10-20 miniatures are added to that how many people will probably up to the $190 pledge!!!

It would not be hard to give some of the LE resin miniatures in 28mm format I would think.... the ones no longer available but in SW in 28mm would probably drive backing up.

Salacious Greed wrote:@MajorTom

Our views must differ. I think that CMoN has just been along for the ride on this one, going to garner a nice slice of the KS $$s for not really doing anything to fuel the KS. Its been very hohum. The lack of fuel being added to the fire seems to point to a lackluster marketing campaign. I'll use a cliche to give my point of view: When given the option of $hit or get off the pot, they seem to have opted for getting off the pot.

On the point of what will be offered next, I also think the smart thing is to offer new miniatures for $$, as they will still get more new pledgers for the $100 level, but their odds are better to offer new spending opportunities. I just hope that Studio McVey is researching a lot of the other Most Successful KS's, and can use what worked for them here.

Since CMON was involved with the second highest funded board/card game ever on Kickstarter, I think they'll end up doing OK.

General Seric wrote:Just though I would tell everyone that SW has made it on to "The Hotness" list for Board Game Geek. Hopefully this will give it more attention and interest, and help achieve some more stretch goals.

Heh. I've had a BGG window for SW open for the last 4 days or whenever it was posted above.

Salacious Greed wrote:@Scipio.au
I agree with you about this being a board game. However, I believe that the entire intent with this enterprise is to end at a tabletop wargame. So, they should be striving towards that end. I don't believe they were ready for the runaway success that this Kickstarter is. It is kind of evident with the stretch goals. I believe that we're already past the point of diminishing returns on their box set. They've pretty much already doubled every miniature in the game, so just counters and tiles remain to be doubled, and they've already upgraded the counters.

I agree with everything you've said there. Several of us have wondered aloud what they can do from this point on, and the best we can come up with has been selling extra tilesets and making a bunch more characters inspired by sci-fi and zombie films - like "Ridley".

I won't be attached to any of these characters. I was talking about being attached to characters as they grow in a persistent skirmish environment, meaning characters I've made, that I attach value to over the course of the skirmish games I play. And come on, you know there's going to be one zombie that just doesn't die in your games that you'll become attached to, or being on the other side, you'll start sacrificing guys just to kill him during your skirmish games. But this being JUST a boardgame, where I can queue up the same figures in the next scenario regardless, just doesn't do it for me. 40k allows me to use real tactics. This game seems to devolve into chokepoints on a fixed board. I'm not seeing any depth of play right now, and this Kickstarter seems to be more about an initial figure grab for a later tabletop game.

Sure, you're after tabletop rules and Necromunda-style or Necrominda-lite campaign rules. I personally love that sort of thing, but there comes a point of giving too much of that stuff away for free. If they give us campaign rules for the sake of a kickstarter then that's one thing less they can sell an expansion box with - and we don't know if the actual rulebook already has something like that in it. An option would be some Necro-Lite rules and then expand on them for a later supplement. And obviously if the game is a success once it hits the real world retail channels then they want it to become a tabletop game, though I'm personally not getting too fussed about getting miniatures ruleset #764798. There's almost 2k of us on Kickstarter now, which is actually a lot of units for something like this - but I have no idea how many boxes of a boardgame you'd sell of something without the D&D or Warhammer logos on them.

But back to the main point. With the success of this Kickstarter, they should have someone write a novel in parallel, so that it can hit the market shortly after this game ships. Because right now, all we really know about their setting is that it is a rebellion on the fringes of Human space, and the Strain has just started as an infection in the middle of the Vanguard putting down the Firebrand rebellion. We don't know anything about the actual Core Corporate Army, or any of the alien species encountered in the Human expansion. So they could give us a novel detailing the rebellion, and how this viral infection grows into a plague, but seems to have a focus and goals. It could also set the overall atmosphere of the setting, and how star systems and planets are governed, and whether there are competing corporations, or just the one. Etc ad nauseum. But they should actually be spoon feeding us some of this stuff DAILY! Hell, how do you have something this successful, and we don't hear from you or your distributor every day?

I'll answer your second point first - they presumably have jobs(!) MCVey is just Mike and Aly, and I assume they're busy as all hell running their own small business and doing commission work to keep food on the table and fulfull their other committments. Mike is in that Photo on the Mantic blog meeting with Ronnie to draw up concepts for the new Mantic figures for their Kickstarter which also exploded in popularity. So they'd need someone to write the fluff, proof it, edit it as writing, edit it as fitting in with their "canon" and sign off on it, then post it. The stuff we saw posted the other week just looked like some "it was a dark and stormy night"-type stuff written in an hour or two including editing time. (Even though it was probably lifted from the rulebook).

I'll tell you my main problem with a novel though - cost. I mean, who is going to actually buy a sci-fi novel based on a new game that no-one knows about? Besides you, I mean? It just seems like quite a risky venture to produce, that can have mediocre returns at best. There's no 10-25 years of Space Marines or Horus Heresy or Ravenloft or Azeroth to fall back on and get people interested here - nor are there x-million units of Mass Effect or even Assassins Creed games shipped (over a half-dozen years).

As to you saying that the focus should be on the game. How? They can't give us anything more on the game until it's in our hands.
----
A company that is only focused on the Now is a company that is failing or already has. Good novels take 9-12 months to see the light of day. A game of this level takes at least 12 months, if not 18 or more. If these guys don't already have more things in the pipeline, already on paper, waiting to go, then I think they'll fall into the same pitfalls that Super Dungeon Explore did, and we won't hear anything from them and the success of this Kickstarter will fizzle out.

Heh, SDE went quiet because they completely sold out. My 2nd-run copy was pre-ordered for 4 months and I only got it this week. There's no point in "maintaining hype" for a game that you can't actually buy at the time - it just pisses people off and/or they get sick of the no steak/all sizzle. When they announce the expansion it will sell like no-one's business. You know that as well as I do.

But perhaps I didn't communicate my point effectively in the last post - I'm sure they (McVey) are working on stuff - they would be silly not to. But they'd be just as silly to pull the trigger fully on SW: The Expansion without seeing what kinds of reviews and reaction the first box gets in the marketplace. I'm sure they've got concepts and draft rules and so forth for the expansion(s) lined up, but if they preview those for us now, they're kinda shooting themselves in the foot. They need to keep our focus on this product, this game. Not the next one.

And we'll have to agree to disagree on a novel. I can't see it being anything but a waste of time and resources for what will at best be more derivitive c-grade sci-fi - and end up in bargain bins or RTP everywhere.






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BobtheInquisitor wrote:I still play Space Hulk. I haven't touched Risk since I was a child. I really hope Studio McVey continues expanding the background.

I'd definitely buy a novel for SW, even if I wouldn't expect it to be very good. There are a lot of decent authors doing tie-n novels these days. Peter David, Alan Dean Foster or Simon Green could bang out a really fun story in a couple of months. Maybe if they hired a BL author or someone from Angry Robot it could be pretty decent. If they go with some hack like Karen Traviss or Kevin J Anderson, I'll keep my money.

A name author would also give them a fast way to get rid of a big chunk of the huge pot of money they'll be getting. Along with production costs for all the stuff they'll be obligated to ship, maybe they could even break even!

scipio.au wrote:
Sure, you're after tabletop rules and Necromunda-style or Necrominda-lite campaign rules. I personally love that sort of thing, but there comes a point of giving too much of that stuff away for free. If they give us campaign rules for the sake of a kickstarter then that's one thing less they can sell an expansion box with - and we don't know if the actual rulebook already has something like that in it. An option would be some Necro-Lite rules and then expand on them for a later supplement. And obviously if the game is a success once it hits the real world retail channels then they want it to become a tabletop game, though I'm personally not getting too fussed about getting miniatures ruleset #764798. There's almost 2k of us on Kickstarter now, which is actually a lot of units for something like this - but I have no idea how many boxes of a boardgame you'd sell of something without the D&D or Warhammer logos on them.

I agree with you also. They should totally offer a necromunda-style set of skirmish rules for a monetary value. That would greatly enhance their KS.

I'll answer your second point first - they presumably have jobs(!) MCVey is just Mike and Aly, and I assume they're busy as all hell running their own small business and doing commission work to keep food on the table and fulfull their other committments. Mike is in that Photo on the Mantic blog meeting with Ronnie to draw up concepts for the new Mantic figures for their Kickstarter which also exploded in popularity. So they'd need someone to write the fluff, proof it, edit it as writing, edit it as fitting in with their "canon" and sign off on it, then post it. The stuff we saw posted the other week just looked like some "it was a dark and stormy night"-type stuff written in an hour or two including editing time. (Even though it was probably lifted from the rulebook).

I'll tell you my main problem with a novel though - cost. I mean, who is going to actually buy a sci-fi novel based on a new game that no-one knows about? Besides you, I mean? It just seems like quite a risky venture to produce, that can have mediocre returns at best. There's no 10-25 years of Space Marines or Horus Heresy or Ravenloft or Azeroth to fall back on and get people interested here - nor are there x-million units of Mass Effect or even Assassins Creed games shipped (over a half-dozen years).

Again, I agree, but there are all kinds of writers who can be brought in for this type of freelance work, both on novels and stuff to enhance this KS and periodically until the game ships. The turn around on writing can be very short, especially when it is needed quickly.

Heh, SDE went quiet because they completely sold out. My 2nd-run copy was pre-ordered for 4 months and I only got it this week. There's no point in "maintaining hype" for a game that you can't actually buy at the time - it just pisses people off and/or they get sick of the no steak/all sizzle. When they announce the expansion it will sell like no-one's business. You know that as well as I do.

But perhaps I didn't communicate my point effectively in the last post - I'm sure they (McVey) are working on stuff - they would be silly not to. But they'd be just as silly to pull the trigger fully on SW: The Expansion without seeing what kinds of reviews and reaction the first box gets in the marketplace. I'm sure they've got concepts and draft rules and so forth for the expansion(s) lined up, but if they preview those for us now, they're kinda shooting themselves in the foot. They need to keep our focus on this product, this game. Not the next one.

I think that SDE will sell fewer expansions than they did the main game. Too much time in between.

As far as SW, they can market the expansion on this KS because what most people will buy it for is the figures, they can figure out rules and changes as it won't ship til 2013 sometime anyhow, and they'll have more than enough time to receive feedback and waffle on what to change or include. The biggest seller of an expansion is going to be which faction they'll introduce, most likely the Firebrand, but who knows. Law of Marketing says to keep the fire stoked, not let it go out and try to live off the coals. I understand that they're a small company. That's why my slant on all of this has been that the bulk of this falls on the shoulders of the Distributor. The Distributor, in a normal Developer - Distributor relationship, takes a finished product and: Markets it, gets it in stores, when it is a hit, they beg the Developer to let them bring in other venues of media to get it out to further potential buyers. In a multi-response to Alpharius also, I wouldn't contend that CMoN made both of these KS's the over the top successes that they've been. The actual game has done that. Hell, Rich Burlew of Order of the Stick raised 1.2 Million dollars. Making up his own stretch goals. So, I find, purely from a Distributor/Marketing point of view, that CMoN is rather lackluster. I caveat by saying that I am viewing from the outside looking in. Saying that it made %$ is it being super successful, I agree. But with proper KS feeds and marketing, this could have been even better.


Edited to fix the quotes.

AlexHolker wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I anticipate more of the "give us (x) additional funds and we'll give you (y)" type of goals vs. 'more free stuff'.
We might get another one or two 'free things' to entice more people to jump in for the $100 option, but nothing generates the extra revenue like the "for only $10 more" 'deals'!

I guess either works for me. One way they might add enough stuff I want to the Biohazard deal to make it worthwhile, the other they might add stuff that I can buy anyway.

I reckon the biohazard deal is already pretty worthwhile, even if you never intend to play the game and just want some miniatures. For US$100 + $25 shipping (AU$123 today) you get

50 highly detailed 28mm miniatures
50 Scenic miniature bases
5 double sided full colour expandable game boards

A resin limited edition Kara,
12 additional Vanguard troopers
12 additional Strain Phase 1 and Phase 2
2 additional Phase 3 Brimstone
2 additional Phase 3 Scythe Witch
1 additional AI Drone (2 in a day or less)
Six custom dice
- I assume these figures also come with scenic bases. Scenic bases aren't cheap by themselves.

So.. 90 plastic miniatures, 90 scenic bases, 1 resin figure (with another scenic base?)

Basically 45 high-tech Imperial Guard and the same number of Tyranid bio-0creatures if you play 40k. All with scenic bases, for a little over a dollar a pop (including the big ones & characters)


edit - fixed quotes


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Salacious Greed wrote:
I think that SDE will sell fewer expansions than they did the main game. Too much time in between.

Expansions always sell fewer copies than the base game. It's the nature of games. I think they'll sell a healthy amount, though, as SDE still seems to have a lot of buzz around it.

As far as SW, they can market the expansion on this KS because what most people will buy it for is the figures, they can figure out rules and changes as it won't ship til 2013 sometime anyhow, and they'll have more than enough time to receive feedback and waffle on what to change or include. The biggest seller of an expansion is going to be which faction they'll introduce, most likely the Firebrand, but who knows. Law of Marketing says to keep the fire stoked, not let it go out and try to live off the coals.

I disagree. This is not the time to start talking about the expansion in any detail. The base game isn't even out yet. All you do is set up expectation and people will be bored with what you've already shown them a year ago in terms of concept. This stuff needs to be teased out slowly, at minimum a month after the game has hit shelves and started to generate retail buzz. It might get them a it more interest for the Kickstarter, but it would be less useful long-term since we're talking about boxed games with static models. With videogames they still wait but they can also pump out a lot more hype then tabletop games in terms of screenshots and cinemas to generate and maintain buzz. You notice, though, we're not seeing a lot of hype for (say) Assassins Creed 4 right now - because the martketting focus is on the present product.

Your video game analogy is a bit off. What they'll be talking about at the release of Assassin's Creed 3 is the DLC that's already in the pipeline. Assassin's Creed 4 probably isn't even being worked on yet. But they already know the first couple DLCs for the current release. In fact, some games ship with DLC as an upgraded edition. The game is supposed to carry itself upon release, because the marketing led up to the release. The product either lives up to the hype or it doesn't.

Salacious Greed wrote:Your video game analogy is a bit off. What they'll be talking about at the release of Assassin's Creed 3 is the DLC that's already in the pipeline. Assassin's Creed 4 probably isn't even being worked on yet. But they already know the first couple DLCs for the current release. In fact, some games ship with DLC as an upgraded edition. The game is supposed to carry itself upon release, because the marketing led up to the release. The product either lives up to the hype or it doesn't.

I won't be rude, but this shows a degree of ignorance on how the VG industry works. The next AC game would be well into development right now, and AC4 will be deep into planning and concepts as well. (The next game will be an AC3: Revelations/Brotherhood type thing. AC4 will be about 2 years out) At the date of release of AC3 they'll mention the DLC. The release isn't for several months, and so they're not talking about any DLC now. DLC in special release editions is an attempt to milk the game for extra money on release, since videogames have the majority of their sales in the first month. It's also an attempt to combat secondhand sales from retailers (Gamestop etc) - neither of which is quite the same as this hobby. Day-1 DLC is also often content that would/should be in the base game that gets chopped out at the last minute, and is often even actually on the retail disc.

Of course, within a year, there's also a GOTY which will often have all the DLC for that game packed into it at a reduced price, as it's a last ditch chance to squeeze sales out as we move into the timeframe for the next sequel - which is where the marketing will be concentrating.

DLC is also not exactly comparable to an expansion pack for a game (in the old days, video games had real expacks - now they have the equivalent of a character pack for, say, Dust Tactics) It's very rare that you see a proper expansion pack in videogames with a comparative amount of content to a miniature or boardgame expansion/supplement. Think Lost and Damned, or Gay Tony, or Undead Nightmare.

Either way, Rockstar isn't talking about the Max Payne 3 expansion now, or even mentioning that it (will) exist. All their energy and focus is on the game that's out now. The one they need to sell now. Not what might be out in 6 or 8 or 12 months time.

scipio.au wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Alpharius wrote:I anticipate more of the "give us (x) additional funds and we'll give you (y)" type of goals vs. 'more free stuff'.
We might get another one or two 'free things' to entice more people to jump in for the $100 option, but nothing generates the extra revenue like the "for only $10 more" 'deals'!

I guess either works for me. One way they might add enough stuff I want to the Biohazard deal to make it worthwhile, the other they might add stuff that I can buy anyway.

I reckon the biohazard deal is already pretty worthwhile, even if you never intend to play the game and just want some miniatures.

Absolutely - if you're a fan of both futuristic infantry and biomechanical mutants. Since I like the former more than the latter, the 45 Strain models do not yet carry enough weight to tip the balance from just buying the Opticamo pack to buying the full game.

I guess the other two things that might potentially add value for you are the game itself (might be fun!) or being able to "split" a Biohazard set with someone else located in Australia, or whichever city you're in?

scipio.au wrote:I guess the other two things that might potentially add value for you are the game itself (might be fun!) or being able to "split" a Biohazard set with someone else located in Australia, or whichever city you're in?

Again, I agree: there is value in having a standalone board game with which I can use the models without first inflicting a 50+ page rulebook on my opponent.

Only $910 to go before we're finally past the Grendlr. It hasn't been as slow as the dice were, but still, it will be good to see what's up next.

300k broken!

*ding!* $300K has been met. Roll on next update..

Darnit. Beaten to it by seconds

There's a good blog post from Mile about the design process on Kickstarter : http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster/posts/248254

Any bets on what the next thing is? I'm going with extra Cthonian, though I hope I'm wrong at this point.

Update #32: Paging Mr Banks. We seem to have a leak in one of the vents....
Posted 2 minutes ago
What happens when an unstable conscript maintenance engineer has to cut his way into Alabaster station because someone forgot to leave an airlock open?



"Killed in action while fighting Firebrand rebels in the Salazar interdiction, Niven Banks, Tech Officer 1st class was uploaded to a battlefield transponder. Under severe viral attack, the transponder suffered catastrophic failure while parts of Banks persona were still reaching engrammatic resolution. Safety interlocks failed due to a Firebrand virus in Vanguard systems and Banks resuscitated to re-enter the battlefield while suffering a massive psychotic break. Combat triggered hallucinations led to a lethal friendly fire incident involving nine other Vanguard."



On permanent hazard duty, Niven was "lucky" enough to be doing external maintenance in standard issue space armor when the outbreak occurred. Now armed to the teeth with whatever he's managed to jury rig, Engineer Banks is going to do anything it takes to get off this &@^#(!ing station!

Get Niven for $10! This version of him will only be available during this Kickstarter and at conventions. We have big plans for the character though, expect to see more of him later! Expected to ship March 2013.

And of course....



If we hit this stretch, it looks like Mr Banks won't make it off this tub after all. Every one who purchase Niven Banks gets his Strained version free! Ships the same time as Niven.

Ok that's a cool stretch goal.

Thinking outside the box there Mr. McVey!

*adds $10 to pledge*

Dang, makes me wish I had more money now.

$30k for that?

Are you upset about the typos?

No, about Infected Isaac Clarke. That's going to be one ugly model.

I think that's the point of strain-infected, erm, I mean starin-infected models.

I don't recognize the reference of Niven Banks. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Hm, I like the Isaac Clarke. 30k stretch to get the second version of it is pretty unexciting, though.

angryboy2k wrote:I don't recognize the reference of Niven Banks. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Isaac Clarke from Dead Space.

Nice looking concept, but another pop culture reference I'd rather not see in the game. I think I'll pass on that like Dr Ripley. Also, I've seen a few comments on kickstarter "Can we have a Zombicide cross over"? For me - no thanks.


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Oh, new update on the OptiCamo characters have appeared:

AlexHolker wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:I don't recognize the reference of Niven Banks. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Isaac Clarke from Dead Space.

Thanks. Never heard of it, so the crossover doesn't bother me in the least. Mini concept looks awesome, hope we get the strained version too.

angryboy2k wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:I don't recognize the reference of Niven Banks. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Isaac Clarke from Dead Space.

Thanks. Never heard of it, so the crossover doesn't bother me in the least. Mini concept looks awesome, hope we get the strained version too.

I wonder if the name is a combination of Larry Niven and Ian M. Banks. For that extra sci-fi reference goodness.

You're clearly correct.

Nice. I'd not thought of that game as a source of inspiration... but now I stop and think about it.. it's perfect

The "Starin" version of him is also a heck of a lot better than the Ridley infected.

Vetric wrote:I wonder if the name is a combination of Larry Niven and Ian M. Banks. For that extra sci-fi reference goodness.

It is, just as the original name is a combination of Isaac Asimov and Arthur C. Clarke.

BrookM wrote:I think that's the point of strain-infected, erm, I mean starin-infected models.

I get that, but I don't see the appeal - if you're a fan of Ripley, how does that translate into wanting a model of Ripley and Newt after being mutilated and turned into an unholy abomination? Themed pairs that don't necessarily represent the same character - like FemShep and MaleShep (or an Infected , if it wouldn't cause legal trouble), or the protagonist of System Shock 2 and SHODAN - seem like a better way to go.

Oh joy, I was ABOUT to say "Hmm they could easily do a 'not Dead Space' character in this"

Kinda agree though that the zombiefied/strainfied are kinda weird though. Not really sure if they're gonna be all that good. And why do they have them for these promo people and not the actual SW characters?


I wonder when they're gonna make a "Not Master Chief" or a "Not Doom Guy"

As Zombicide has shown, pop culture sells better.

kenshin620 wrote:And why do they have them for these promo people and not the actual SW characters?

IIRC, they decided any non-canon stuff (like Ripley or Isaac Clarke) will not be added to the Biohazard deal. Infected versions of named characters would also be non-canon.

I'm not into Dead Space but I think the model looks cool. I've added one for me.

I like both the unique if you can call them that characters, looking forward see what they offer at next stretch.

The Isaac character is cool but honestly... all these pay $10 more and get characters are fine. Having them as the stretch goals to be infected versions is just lazy, going to legitimately bitch here in that regard.

Isaac guy for $10 fine.

Isaac Strain version for free in Biohazard if we hit 330K, would have been nicer. As it stands, we have to pay another $10 to even get any use out of the next stretch. The Ridley one was only a 20k goal and clearly would have garnered more interest. The extra money SW was going to get from me is slowly being moved into other projects, not because it isn't quality, not because it isn't a great bargain but simply put; if all they keep adding is extras they don't need a few hundred dollars more from me. I don't need to spend $10 for plastic character figures, that is almost as much as he charged for the LE Resin 28mm and Metal 28mm for SW!

Either way, sure the figure is going to be cool but justifying another $10 spend on a mini is eh

I didn't get in on Zombicide till it was almost over, but was the reaction the the stretch goals there the same? It was the same thing for most of their later ones, buy the pop culture icon, get the zombie version if goal gets hit.

I'm up to $200 for my biohazard at this point. Dang extras get me every time.

I would like to see a stretch goal that is like the one from OGRE, where we would get all the tiles from the game, but single-sided.

That eliminates the fact that besides the characters, they would be giving us a second set of the game for the price of one, but at the same time we could use all of the tiles in the game at the same time for ten-tile battlefields, or home-brew scenarios where you might want both sides of a certain tile on the table at the same time.

I like the not-Dead Space character, and will definitely be getting him. Especially since SW is basically "nano-virus Dead Space" (and I'm OK with that!).

I do hope that the stats of Niven Banks incorporate his boots of +5 to stomping.

AegisGrimm wrote:I would like to see a stretch goal that is like the one from OGRE, where we would get all the tiles from the game, but single-sided.

That eliminates the fact that besides the characters, they would be giving us a second set of the game for the price of one, but at the same time we could use all of the tiles in the game at the same time for ten-tile battlefields, or home-brew scenarios where you might want both sides of a certain tile on the table at the same time.

I like the not-Dead Space character, and will definitely be getting him. Especially since SW is basically "nano-virus Dead Space" (and I'm OK with that!).

The tiles thing is my biggest issue! It makes me want to get two copies just to make use of all the minis but then I'll have like 200ish. It's not an issue of the value here, the biohazard level is too good to pass up even we got movement is.

Upped by 10. I have a feeling it's just begun...

Here's hoping they make strain versions of the main heroes.

Are the strain versions of characters "playable"?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Thinking outside the box there Mr. McVey!

I dont know. At this point it seems rather formulaic.

Zombicide did the same thing, yet seemed more relevant for that game.

But stretch goals just so I can spend more money? Nope. I think I shall stand firmly seated in the $100 plan thanks. Come up with something better than a sci fi version of zombicide (Character and their techno zombie counterpart) and we might have something outside the box.

I also am not a fan of the +$10 to get 1 more model. I did make the stretch to $30 for the extra terrain, as that plus the biohazard deal is just freaking awesome.

I can't go the nickel and dime on the extra toons though.

It's a rough justification.

I almost went for the terrain (as it is sexy after all and not many games since heroquest has that sort of attention been made) yet it will be available in retail and I likely will be able to get it for cheaper than the KS price... so why tie up $30 for something we wont see for another 9 months at the earliest?

I want the terrain, but unless it gets released at the same time as the game, I have no interest in preordering. I'll wait for it to hit my FLGS or amazon.

Hellfury wrote:I dont know. At this point it seems rather formulaic.

Zombicide did the same thing, yet seemed more relevant for that game.

But the guy from Dead Space is relevant. It makes sense, and of all the characters people brainstormed a few pages back, he wasn't one of them, because all of us were thinking of movie cliches.


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Uriels_Flame wrote:I can't go the nickel and dime on the extra toons though.

Then... don't?

Sorry, but I don't see the big deal here. These are options, options that you are not required to buy. What's the big deal?

New fig is nice, but I'm just gonna stick with the regular $100 level. But if they make a not-geth mini I might have to get that one

If you guys are down for the hundred and don't plan on moving your bar that is fine. Though at this point I doubt that the $100 level pledge is going to be getting anything additional. It's already a insane deal with 82 mini's to go with the game so it's not like you're not getting your monies worth.

As it is it's a decent way to raise money during the slow period of the kickstarter and it's still trending ridiculously high for where it's at with 12 days left. Personally I'm down for the equivelant of 2 additional models highly sculpted for $10 in plastic. If anything they'll be fun showcase type models since they're pulpy fun

Uriels_Flame wrote:I also am not a fan of the +$10 to get 1 more model.

Actually, effectively $10 for 2 more models, but I tend to agree. Getting the first b/c I'm a big Aliens fan, may get the 2nd b/c I've got friends who are Dead Space fans and will probably plat, but not sure...

Hulksmash wrote:If you guys are down for the hundred and don't plan on moving your bar that is fine. Though at this point I doubt that the $100 level pledge is going to be getting anything additional. It's already a insane deal with 82 mini's to go with the game so it's not like you're not getting your monies worth.

As it is it's a decent way to raise money during the slow period of the kickstarter and it's still trending ridiculously high for where it's at with 12 days left. Personally I'm down for the equivelant of 2 additional models highly sculpted for $10 in plastic. If anything they'll be fun showcase type models since they're pulpy fun

The $100 pledge level is where the majority of the backers are from and will come from though in the next few days. There are many people probably waiting until the last minute unfortunately, to see all the extras they will get. Having stretch goals up ahead of time would help that, I see zombiecide did a crapload of characters to but the quality of the sculpts don't compete with studio McVey.

I am personally waiting on the terrain, as I can get that when it release later, and I am on a serious budget at the moment.

Right now the thing I am hugely on the hedge about is a set of the Opticamo Vanguard, because they will make a really cool squad/character option for any skirmish-style games that is impossible to replicate otherwise, while having the the radioactive green of the GitD Strain represent some kind of upgrade (while cool as a material) can really just be replicated color-wise with paint, especially since the Biohazard level contains so freaking many of them.

It might just be the case that they can't afford to add any more free stuff to the biohazard level.

The Mantic one has reached this point, although they're still giving out a unit of 5 models to $175+ backers with every stretch goal.

Maybe a new $150 or $175 pledge level would be best, something that gets you biohazard + all the extra stuff like the terrain, camo packs and any hero models that get produced as a result of hitting stretch goals?

I think a lot of people on the fence about buying anything above the $100 level would go for it if there were savings to be had rather than having to pay full RRP for the stuff, might as well just wait until next year and buy it from a discount webstore if there isn't going to be a discount or incentive within the kickstarter itself.

If they can't give away all these new heroes at the $100 level, then they should set the bar a little higher and start giving stuff away at that point instead... I don't think Zombicide would have gone down as well if Chuck Norris and friends were sold as $10 single figures rather than a freebie.

Uriels_Flame wrote:I also am not a fan of the +$10 to get 1 more model. I did make the stretch to $30 for the extra terrain, as that plus the biohazard deal is just freaking awesome.

I can't go the nickel and dime on the extra toons though.

It's a rough justification.

I'm looking at it as $10 for two cool-looking models (that happen to be somewhat limited), since it's unlikely that the stretch won't be hit. As long as the models for this sort of thing look good, I'll be in for them. Any meh ones, I'll pass on.


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IdentifyZero wrote:
The $100 pledge level is where the majority of the backers are from and will come from though in the next few days. There are many people probably waiting until the last minute unfortunately, to see all the extras they will get. Having stretch goals up ahead of time would help that, I see zombiecide did a crapload of characters to but the quality of the sculpts don't compete with studio McVey.

I agree. they should have two (different in nature) goals up at once, to appeal to different types of people. I'm going to wait until the 11th hour, but that's to make sure I can actually afford what I'd like to get - or as close as possible to it.

Hellfury wrote:
I dont know. At this point it seems rather formulaic.

How is this a bad thing? New characters to play the game differently? I mean... if it works and people continue to like it then do it.

Im sorry but its late and my brain went to bed some time ago. I just found this thread and love the way the game looks, but im a noob about pledging. I want the ridley model and Niven Banks models with my boxed game, what do I do?

They got another $10 from me. But I'm not still sold on the Light's Out pack. This is getting really expensive. A lot of stuff there, but expensive xD


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Fishborne wrote:Im sorry but its late and my brain went to bed some time ago. I just found this thread and love the way the game looks, but im a noob about pledging. I want the ridley model and Niven Banks models with my boxed game, what do I do?

Have you already pledged for your game? If you have, you can click on the 'Manage your pledge' blue icon, and there you can change the amount you have pledged, so you can add $20 for those two minis. If you haven't pledged anything, pledge for $100 (Quarantine pack + both characters) or $120 (Biohazard level + both characters). Biohazrd level is really worthy now, for a $20 difference.

Once you have pledged, you have to choose your level (Quarantine or Biohazard). When the Kickstarter finishes in 12 days, they'll make a survey to each one of us. Then, you will be able to tell them "I want a Biohazard+Dr Ridley+Niven Banks with my $120 pledge". Or whatever applies

scarletsquig wrote:
If they can't give away all these new heroes at the $100 level, then they should set the bar a little higher and start giving stuff away at that point instead... I don't think Zombicide would have gone down as well if Chuck Norris and friends were sold as $10 single figures rather than a freebie.

4 of them were exactly $10 for 2 figures (survivor and zombie versions), which helped get to the free Chuck and Ash, as well as CTS. The Bride, Sam Jackson, Angelina Jolie and other chick were $10 with stretch goals of the zombie versions.

I doubt you will get the terrain pack way cheaper later. Since it is being sold at 40$ later and you pay now 30$, even the most insane LGS or OGS would have a hard time selling it below that.

Hellfury wrote:I dont know. At this point it seems rather formulaic.

Zombicide did the same thing, yet seemed more relevant for that game.

Yep, I'm feeling exactly the same way. Although the concepts look good, it seems a little lazy to crowbar in these pop-culture references and for me it cheapens the universe background a little. I have no problem with $10 boosters, but personally, I'd like to see something more original. Other options to consider is to make the boards single sided, replace other cardboard counters in the box with plastics, consider making plastic versions of the boards which people can plump for as an option, maybe even consider allowing the purchase of some of the sedition wars resin figures for collectors or even alternative troop types for the game (such as the current line of metal SW vanguard troopers), etc.

Do you mean make the boards double-sided?

scipio.au wrote:Do you mean make the boards double-sided?

The boards are already double sided. Various people have asked if they could make them single sided as this effectively doubles the map size and flexibility without any extra design work

Ah okay.
Trouble with that is if the boards are decent, that doubles the amount of heavy cardboard and thus, the adds significantly to shipping weight of every set of the game from now until forever and kind of goes against the replacement of card markers with plastic ones (which are lighter and can be reused in anything). They'd be better off offering another set of boards for $40, but I doubt many would bite on that. (thinking about the game being RRP$80 though, the board got to be at least half the value of the box...)

I'm buying 2x Biohazard to get my double-boards. And a million figures.

scipio.au wrote:I'm looking at it as $10 for two cool-looking models (that happen to be somewhat limited), since it's unlikely that the stretch won't be hit. As long as the models for this sort of thing look good, I'll be in for them. Any meh ones, I'll pass on.

And that's just the thing right - those who want it, will buy it. Those who don't, won't. I'm failing to see why people are making such a big deal out of this. Like you said, any 'meh' ones can be ignored.


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Duncan_Idaho wrote:I doubt you will get the terrain pack way cheaper later. Since it is being sold at 40$ later and you pay now 30$, even the most insane LGS or OGS would have a hard time selling it below that.

I'm amazed it's that cheap, given how much stuff's in there.

And that's just the thing right - those who want it, will buy it. Those who don't, won't. I'm failing to see why people are making such a big deal out of this. Like you said, any 'meh' ones can be ignored.

That's what I see, too. I fail to see why some people are raw about some of the stretch goals affecting the stuff that is bought separately, as if they are missing out because what the Biohazard level gives you as extras isn't completely insane enough anyway. Any more product and they'd be giving away Sedition Wars "two for the price of one".

Several people are also mad about these figures being 10 dollar for each one, but each of the pledges that affect them gives you two figs for that same price, and $5 for a figure is damn good in this market nowadays.

i take it the special figs are resin ?

Who's making a big deal out of anything?

Its a public forum for the sharing of opinions. As a backer I am sure as hell going to make my opinion known and could care less what anyone other than the producers of the game thinks of mine.

As for the terrain being available later: Proposed retail is $40. They are preordering at $30. Typically I can find gaming products online that retail for $40 discounted to $25ish. Way cheaper? Its only around $5, but I don't have to cough up the dough 9 months before the fact and several months after the game is released. Which to me is the big deal.

And if everyone would think like you the game would never be made that fast and good.

Hellfury wrote:Who's making a big deal out of anything?

Its a public forum for the sharing of opinions. As a backer I am sure as hell going to make my opinion known and could care less what anyone other than the producers of the game thinks of mine.

As for the terrain being available later: Proposed retail is $40. They are preordering at $30. Typically I can find gaming products online that retail for $40 discounted to $25ish. Way cheaper? Its only around $5, but I don't have to cough up the dough 9 months before the fact and several months after the game is released. Which to me is the big deal.

You get minis/terrain at nearly 40% discount? Where, if you don't mind me asking? That's around wholesale price my local gets on most things

Duncan_Idaho wrote:And if everyone would think like you the game would never be made that fast and good.

That sentence doesn't even make sense, old bean.

Jeez. I like the terrain. I am going to buy it. The only point of critique I have about it is that it is shipping 4 months after the release of the game.

I don't mind expansions coming later. But the terrain components I personally view as compulsory to the game. Sitting down to paint the game, then sitting down four months later to paint it again in the form of dorrs and whatnot is a pretty big turnoff for me. I like to get stuff over with instead of dragging it out when and where possible.

So if it doesn't ship with the game then I have no reason to preorder it with quite reasonable explanations as to why exactly I feel that way.

Yet because I have a point of critique, suddenly comments like yours are made. I am not kicking your puppy. I am not kicking you in the junk. I am not slapping your ugly wife across the face. I am making a minor criticism known that has absolutely no effect on you other than you wanting to grind an old ax.

Seriously Duncan. Haven't you gotten over yourself yet?

Hellfury wrote:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:And if everyone would think like you the game would never be made that fast and good.

That sentence doesn't even make sense, old bean.

Jeez. I like the terrain. I am going to buy it. The only point of critique I have about it is that it is shipping 4 months after the release of the game.

I don't mind expansions coming later. But the terrain components I personally view as compulsory to the game. Sitting down to paint the game, then sitting down four months later to paint it again in the form of dorrs and whatnot is a pretty big turnoff for me. I like to get stuff over with instead of dragging it out when and where possible.

So if it doesn't ship with the game then I have no reason to preorder it with quite reasonable explanations as to why exactly I feel that way.

Yet because I have a point of critique, suddenly comments like yours are made. I am not kicking your puppy. I am not kicking you in the junk. I am not slapping your ugly wife across the face. I am making a minor criticism known that has absolutely no effect on you other than you wanting to grind an old ax.

Seriously Duncan. Haven't you gotten over yourself yet?

Really no need to be so offensive about things. Sheesh it is just a game relax and enjoy a little more.

And the terrain is certainly nor compulsory to play the game.

@Hellfury

Then stop whining and insulting others that merely state a fact!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

scipio.au wrote:I'm looking at it as $10 for two cool-looking models (that happen to be somewhat limited), since it's unlikely that the stretch won't be hit. As long as the models for this sort of thing look good, I'll be in for them. Any meh ones, I'll pass on.

And that's just the thing right - those who want it, will buy it. Those who don't, won't. I'm failing to see why people are making such a big deal out of this. Like you said, any 'meh' ones can be ignored.

@ H.B.M.C,

I don't think that understanding why people are making a big deal is beyond you, as you are one of the more intelligent posters on the forum. I think the sentiment that you are noticing but disagreeing with is that all these 10$ a pop stretch goals should be included in the Bioshock Level, not added on after the fact.

Whether or not YOU think it should or shouldn't be added isn't going to stop other posters from complaining like they feel forced to keep throwing money at the kickstarter. (Again, whether or not they are being forced isn't the issue, it's that they feel like they are because they want the complete set of uniques.)

Orginally the 100$ backing was appreciated enough to get you everything special that was being offered. You might only get one set, but it was good enough for McVey. Now, you have to almost double that pledge to stay on top of all the extras. If they had told me upfront that in order to get all the extras I would need to drop a 200$ pledge instead I probably wouldn't have gone in at all.

It's the way these newer KS's are flowing;

Step 1: Moderately affordable goal that seems to be the minimum pledge for all the goodies outside of lunches and trips and stuff. This stage of the KS pulls in LOTS of this pledge level.

Step 2: Once we have a large enough base of pledgers in the former premier amount, start nickel and diming them all so that they keep up with the Joneses and get a "complete" KS set of all the promo stuff. Who cares that we manage to squeeze double their original planned donation for everything special?

Myself? I want the Ripleys and such but I won't buy them because they probably won't have any special stat cards wrote into the game. Then again, it's likely that I'm not even going to be playing the game much as I'm still looking for a full on trade of all my humans for someone elses Strain. I see some neat Tyranids here! I donated 100 and I'm staying at 100.

Again, you shouldn't stress yourself out trying to convince everyone that feels this way that they are wrong. Just accept that's where their thought process is at.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:@Hellfury

Then stop whining and insulting others that merely state a fact!

What "fact"?

Has the definition of fact changed to reflect personal opinions now?

@thunderfrog
i agree with you ,but mike has said that all the extra figures will come with stat cards for use in the game .

Hellfury wrote:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:@Hellfury

Then stop whining and insulting others that merely state a fact!

What "fact"?

Has the definition of fact changed to reflect personal opinions now?

Totally agree, I thought this thread was created to not only bring news about the product but also to generate debate. As far as I can tell you explained the issue you have with the "product offer" quite clearly....I don't think that really counts as whining.

If the idea is to bring a news thread into being but not discuss the pros and cons with the deal, why not lock it after the first post....all the FACTs one needs to know are right there.

CURNOW wrote:@thunderfrog
i agree with you ,but mike has said that all the extra figures will come with stat cards for use in the game .

Well poop.

Still, I won't play extra for what I think should be included with the Biohazard level.

Ok, ok, enough going around at each other for a thread that's been cool for so long.

A good question I didn't think about but thanks to Thunderfrog for bringing it up-

Does anyone know if the extra characters actually come with a card to make them playable in the base game? As far as i know, Zombiecide's did, and I think that would definitely be a huge mark in their favor.

(Edit: CURNOW beat me to the Submit button )

I especially like the Isaac Clarke figure all the more if he's playable, as he really meshes into the game story, even if the Dead Space link wasn't there. But his "Mcguyver Engineer surviving the takeover" story is one that I always like when it shows up in Sci-fi stories.

I don't see it as nickel & diming personally. I see it as things that got added because they didn't think they'd hit this level. The additional models are neat addition but not required for the base game.

I do feel a bit like some posters feel entitled to free stuff just for what is basically pre-ordering. And not just free stuff, but tons and tons of free stuff. You're already getting nearly 1.5 boxes worth of mini's in 1. Isn't that enough?

AegisGrimm wrote:

Does anyone know if the extra characters actually come with a card to make them playable in the base game? As far as i know, Zombiecide's did, and I think that would definitely be a huge mark in their favor.

(Edit: CURNOW beat me to the Submit button )

I especially like the Isaac Clarke figure all the more if he's playable, as he really meshes into the game story, even if the Dead Space link wasn't there. But his "Mcguyver Engineer surviving the takeover" story is one that I always like when it shows up in Sci-fi stories.

Yes - all the extra and promotion pieces will have their own card and be playable in the game. With Niven Banks he will be a part of the ongoing universe, but this is the only time he's be dressed in that pressure suit.

Sorry I haven't been on this thread much lately - it's just hard to find the time at the moment...

mike

Hulksmash wrote:I don't see it as nickel & diming personally. I see it as things that got added because they didn't think they'd hit this level. The additional models are neat addition but not required for the base game.

I do feel a bit like some posters feel entitled to free stuff just for what is basically pre-ordering. And not just free stuff, but tons and tons of free stuff. You're already getting nearly 1.5 boxes worth of mini's in 1. Isn't that enough?

I agree, it's getting a bit hard to justify getting more free stuff already!


Now that doesnt mean I dont want more free stuff......

Hulksmash wrote:I don't see it as nickel & diming personally. I see it as things that got added because they didn't think they'd hit this level. The additional models are neat addition but not required for the base game.

I do feel a bit like some posters feel entitled to free stuff just for what is basically pre-ordering. And not just free stuff, but tons and tons of free stuff. You're already getting nearly 1.5 boxes worth of mini's in 1. Isn't that enough?

Have to agree with the above, and also mention not to mention all the other non-mini upgrades too.

And on the optional stuff, the fact that even those get upgraded eventually makes them more than worth it as well!

I have a question though, I have been incrementally upping my commitment whenever I want to elect for some of the options... I just want to confirm, you have to specify what you want after the fact right? You leave your selected package at biohazard, then you state I want Ridley, The camo guys etc etc after the fact?

Just want to make sure I am ordering right, it sure would be nice if there was a secondary 'extras' list to click on and get concrete totals though.

Looks like we'll hit 330k today, wonder what's next! Go-go plastic tiles, sedition wars 'paperclip' and more sculpts Mike!

@Majortom11

You've got it right. You just select the standard level and then put in the pledge amount. The survey at the end asks how you want that extra money used (i.e. additional $60 could be Ridley, Nevin, Dice, Vanguard Light Pack or it could be Lightsout & Ridley).

I just put up for $210 so that my wife doesn't keep getting emails daily stating $160+ dollars have been pledged and think we're being charged multiple times

lol I gotcha... I'm basically taking everything so far... this is a great, great deal when you break it down, and I will be very happy to see Mike succeed with this!

@Majortom11

I hear that. I've put enough in for both characters, lightsout, terrain, and an extra set of dice. Though I'm currently torn between the $60 for the dice & lights our and the $90 for an entire extra set....

It can get a bit pricey, but every time I say maybe I should hold out some bonus is added to the extra cost, making it worth it again.

Let's face it, no one NEEDS glow in the dark or clear models, they aren't forcing anything on us, nor is it in any way neccesary to gameplay... it's just a nice option for those interested, nothing more, nothing less.

I just don't think people should be upset 'Arrg! He is giving me choices for cool stuff that doesn't detract in any way shape or form from the tons of extra stuff I already got or effect my ability to play the game! How COULD they!???'

I mean.... c'mon lol.

On the other hand, if my budget was tight, it could be frustrating if I wanted these things but couldn't afford them. When it is all just bonus extras, then you can sit back and enjoy. If you need to pay and can't, ok, that's frustrating. Still, while it is understandable to be frustrated by circumstance, I don't see how it reflects badly on the project catering to people willing to spend more and who can either... It's not a cash grab, just good business.

Bearing all that in mind, it's best just to remain supportive and excited for the incoming bonuses I am sure will be free and to the benefit of all, and to accept there might be be a options you can't get if you are younger or on a tight budget.

Hulksmash wrote:I do feel a bit like some posters feel entitled to free stuff just for what is basically pre-ordering. And not just free stuff, but tons and tons of free stuff. You're already getting nearly 1.5 boxes worth of mini's in 1. Isn't that enough?

Of course what comes in the $80 or $100 deal is enough. If I didn't like what was being offered for that price then I would not have pledged.

I think you misread the criticism about the stretch goals as entitlement though.
While I think any new stretch goal is great to promote it, I also feel if one has an opinion as to where they would like to see stretch goals go they should speak up or forever hold their peace if the stretch goals are not something that they think is beneficial.

While I am not a fan of pledging to the project in order unlock an option for that option to only be to buy more stuff, I think options that benefit everyone in the project like single sided maps or more online scenario content, etc. are better promotional incentives. Especially if they can be accomplished with minimal resources devoted to them for maximum profit. We all want free stuff. And we all want it yesterday. But I am sure the majority of us are reasonable enough sorts to not expect every last thing to be free. hence why I think you are mistaken when using such labels as entitlement.

My only wish is that the terrain could be released with the game itself if at all possible.

I completely understand how this might not be made a reality as there is considerable sculpting to be done for those items (is there even anything sculpted yet? I think it is all just sketches right now and not even all of them have been sketched or at least shown), so I am not hazing this KS project as a fail if such a request cannot be met.

I just fail to see the incentive to buy the very nice terrain now if I have to wait so long after release to get them. Taking away the majority of the tokens and replacing them with the terrain is genius. I hope to taste that genius before I potentially lose interest in the game. I may not like the game after I receive it (which can easily happen in games where you buy them with only a minimal amount of info i.e. no rulebook). My opinion of the game might be vastly improved with more thematic elements present to suspend my disbelief.

Generally I don´t have problems with discussing things. Where I start to get angry is when people say things are compulsory when they are clearly not and are getting personal, etc.

But what really causes me to get snappish is when I see people commenting that they will get stuff at rates that normally only LGS get when they buy such stuff. I do know people that do such deals and I am clearly no friend of them cause in the end they hurt everyone with this attitude. If they also show an attitude that says: "I am entiteld to all I want or else the other side is the bad guy" then I am normally hitting the ignore-button. Also: Posting that people on Dakkadakka are not capable of knowing good rules and that only folks on BGG do in another thread really does not help and causes me to be harsher than usual.

@SW
Thanks to heavens the $ > € rate is in my favor or else my wife would kill me .

Hellfury wrote:

I just fail to see the incentive to buy the very nice terrain now if I have to wait so long after release to get them. .

Helps getting the higher stretch goals

Though yes I highly doubt they'll be off by $30. But it does add up. Even if 50 people thought that way thats $1500 not going towards the stretches just because they would rather save $5 or so.

But I suppose that money is money, I know several people that could use $5 or so right now as opposed to pre ordering a product not coming out in a year. Especially in these uncertain times. Even I'm quite guilty of waiting for savings than here and now

@Duncan Idaho -
The form in general does not need to know who is on your ignore list, and it is rude to say so... I will be editing that out.

@Hellfury -
My above comments were not directed at you or anyone in particular, in fact, you have made what in my view may be one of the biggest contributions to Sedition Wars by pointing out that people could help promote it on Boardgame Geek, so I certainly never thought you or your position were unsupportive and or entitled.

We all have diff opinions guys, and that is perfectly ok. My long message a post or two back doesn't make me 'right' or 'wrong', it is just my view on the matter is all.

Now, let's all get along!

kenshin620 wrote:But I suppose that money is money.

I think you misunderstand me again. it's not about the money. it about spending money on a product that I may find I do not enjoy only to find 4 months after I get the game that I now possess another part for a game I could potentially dislike.

MajorTom11 wrote:@Duncan Idaho -
The form in general does not need to know who is on your ignore list, and it is rude to say so... I will be editing that out.

Agreed, I find people who inform others of their ignoring are just trying to rile up the other side

Hellfury wrote:I think you misunderstand me again. it's not about the money. it about spending money on a product that I may find I do not enjoy only to find 4 months after I get the game that I now possess another part for a game I could potentially dislike.

Ah thats also true I suppose. I always keep forgetting that line of thinking, which is why I have so many useless products in my house

Nope, just being honest with them, else they write and write and wonder why the other never responds, which could be seen as even more rude.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Nope, just being honest with them, else they write and write and wonder why the other never responds, which could be seen as even more rude.

Tis true! Letting someone know they have offended you enough that you now wish to ignore them is a very polite way of avoiding a flame war, and making a solid statement....this is how I have used the ignore function in the past and see nothing wrong with it.......am I on that list?!?

On topic. I was just about to leap in and get this, but found out that the "gaming group" I frequent just isn't into it.......god I hate being such a slave to the whim of others, but what do you do when the only people you'd use it with don't want to play......it's one of the big detractors of wargaming in general I find.

What are others doing? Buy now and hope to find a gaming partner later or is everyone more or less convinced this won't be an issue?

I'm buying now because I really want to paint those models, it looks like a cool game and I want to support someone whose work I've followed avidly for years. I strongly suspect that I won't actually play it other than as single player unless I suddenly start going to a local gaming group

Yes. I'm buying now because I believe.

yeah i dont have anyone to play ,but getting it anyway

CURNOW wrote:yeah i dont have anyone to play ,but getting it anyway

We salute thee!

Seriously, same situation here really.

BrookM wrote:Yes. I'm buying now because I believe.

That made me burst out laughing at work.


I upped my pledge to 150, but may lower it or readjust to see what bonuses I want. I may just wait on a terrain pack for something I can get more now.

CURNOW wrote:yeah i dont have anyone to play ,but getting it anyway

No worries. I think you missed the fine print on the game that says:

"Purchaser of this game shall find themselves with more friends than they could ever hope to shake off of them and more persons of sexual interest than they could ever satisfy. Signed: Mike McVey"

So you got 'em waiting for you at the end of the KS tunnel.

Doesn't matter if your friends don't buy it .. if you do, you'll have everything you need for them to play too.. so, get them to play with your copy, they like it and then want their own, and you can brag about how you got it through the kickstarter and got all the extra stuff that they didn't.

Hellfury wrote:

CURNOW wrote:yeah i dont have anyone to play ,but getting it anyway

No worries. I think you missed the fine print on the game that says:

"Purchaser of this game shall find themselves with more friends than they could ever hope to shake off of them and more persons of sexual interest than they could ever satisfy. Signed: Mike McVey"

So you got 'em waiting for you at the end of the KS tunnel.

woohooo i'll have to remember to wash all the paint off my hands from my furious strain painting if theres going to be a chance of boobies

BrookM wrote:

CURNOW wrote:yeah i dont have anyone to play ,but getting it anyway

We salute thee!

Seriously, same situation here really.

You think you have it bad???? I've been stuck in Saudi Arabia for 3 years now where I've amassed a huge Ork Army, Painted up a full set of SDE, Dust Tactics, and I've not played a game since I've been here! I suspect the local Muttawa (Religous Police) would quickly string me up if they read some of the games background.......

As for SW, I'm in at Biiohazzard, Terrain, Dice, Ridley. The Glowy and transucent models and the new one don't float my boat, so there not for me. My ultimate wish list is some 3D plastic corridor and room terrain.

endtransmission wrote:I'm buying now because I really want to paint those models, it looks like a cool game and I want to support someone whose work I've followed avidly for years. I strongly suspect that I won't actually play it other than as single player unless I suddenly start going to a local gaming group

I know why you're trying to convince me to buy......Shame on you!!

Hey, I'm not trying to convince you to buy it... just because I already own your other Sedition Wars models

TheSecretSquig wrote:My ultimate wish list is some 3D plastic corridor and room terrain.

1,000 times this. There are tons of games (not the least of which is SW) that I'd be interested in using some nice plastic space terrain for, and, so far, it's all been too generic or too expensive...