26225
Post by: General Seric
str00dles1 wrote: AegisGrimm wrote:I got all my stuff today, and while everything is there and in good condition (aside from heavy flash) I am still not sure if I want to keep my copy. Kinda worried about how little it would go for on Ebay, though. I'd like at least 50% or more of what I originally paid into the Kickstarter, but I'm not sure the demand is there for even that.
As a related note....man, those wave 2 figures are absolutely tiny. Beyond heads, Ridley's arms are about the thickness of the back banner poles Space Marines use to come with.
Not sure how much you pledged, but Biohazard with the wave 2 stuff goes for 130-140. Saw a few sell with bids so I put mine up and ended up going for 155$ but mine was 80% painted.
Note Wave 2 for me was whatever extra stuff I got for free, I didn't spend any extra money on more guys, just the 100 for Biohazzard.
It seems that the Wave 2 stuff is certainly very popular on Ebay, unopened copies of the base game only go for $40-50, but some of the Wave 2 figures go for $20-30 each.
The THI suits also seemed to be going for $15, so those that want to get rid of theirs can make their money back.
EDIT: actually, looking at the current listing, the high prices seem to have ben on only the first few Wave 2 listings on, but the demand seems to have already been satisfied, as the current group is not going for nearly as high (except for a few of the $10 add-on figures).
Wish I had been able to put my wave 2 stuff on when it came 2 weeks ago, I could have close to made my money back...
23558
Post by: zedmeister
Yeah, homage miniatures are keeping their prices but they are slowly decreasing. The other Wave 2 minis are definitely dropping in price. Gnosis Armour Kara is already going for less than £10 on many auctions
Good for me as I'll wait until the prices are low before I grab my homage miniatures
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
I'm selling a couple of extra homage characters myself. Just the extras. Didn't bother with the basic set models as I figured they wouldn't get a value back I would consider worth the effort of Ebay.
I'm more annoyed they haven't responded to my messages via kickstarter or email yet about my missing items.
47462
Post by: rigeld2
 Hulksmash wrote:I'm more annoyed they haven't responded to my messages via kickstarter or email yet about my missing items.
Was about to ask that...
I'm pretty annoyed - I have a friend that loves the Riddick story and I was going to paint up not-Riddick for him... but I have to have the mini first.
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
Yeah, I'm doing the same with the Serenity crew for a buddy who got me into it. He'll dig it. At least I have those though.....
At this point I'd be happier after seeing the models to just have them shift the difference back into Wrath of Kings, which is one of the options I'm going to give them if they ever get back to me.....
19136
Post by: Forlorn
Wait. Were we supposed to get an updated rule book? Because I didn't get one in my WAVE 2 order.
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
 Forlorn wrote:
Wait. Were we supposed to get an updated rule book? Because I didn't get one in my WAVE 2 order.
Only if you paid for it.
61979
Post by: DaveC
I thought I would post about the comments if the size/scale of the miniatures. Apologies for not doing this sooner, but the past few weeks have been pretty full-on.
I have to say right off the bat, that I am unhappy with the shrinkage of some of the casts - it is certainly disappointing to me, and I'm sure it is to some of you too. Unfortunately, the ones that are the worst effected are the ones that were the thinnest to start with - the ones with a more chunky design have not suffered in the same way. It seems that the process is not kind to finer designs. I don't think the miniatures are ruined - but they are not quite how I had envisioned them coming out.
I can only apologies, and learn from it.
As for the scale... Well as anybody who has been in the hobby for a while knows - discussions on scale and proportions are likely to open up a huge can of worms and polarise opinions. But here we go...
The first Sedition Wars human miniatures (Vanguard) were mainly sculpted by one person, and when that person was not available to work on the wave two material, I had to give the commissions to other sculptors. The people I am working with on SW now, are of the more realistic school of proportion when it comes to humans - so smaller heads compared to bodies, and generally a little finer. They are the same people who have been working with on the bulk of my LE resin line for the past few years, and the proportions there lead to absolutely no complaint . I had to make a decision about the future of the SW range - and who was going to be sculpting the bulk of it going forward, and I decided the more realistic approach was going to be the one that would lead to the best consistency in the future.
You most likely think I should have had the new sculptors work to a style that matched more closely with the original miniatures - but that wasn't really a workable solution. When you try and get creative people to work in a style they are not comfortable with - the results are never good in the long term, and you end up with more problems with quality and consistency. We tried for a half-way house - and if characters were going to be in units with the older miniatures (like Ramirez), we tried to match more closely.
The other factor here, is the subject matter. Some of the wave two characters are supposed to be closely inspired by 'real' subjects, so to get an accurate representation I thought it best to go down the realism route - that was particularly the case with Hexen and Ridley, and the Calamity crew. I didn't want 'war-games' versions of those characters - with large heads and chunky bodies. That was the decision I took at the time - was that the right choice? Given how they suffered in shrinkage terms, I'm no so sure now - but that was my choice, and I'll have to live with it.
Overall I'm not as happy with Wave 2 as I had hoped to be - but they are by no means terrible, and I think many of the miniatures came out very well.
mike
1464
Post by: Breotan
So, about this Wave 2 stuff. How do we wait before it's all sent out?
4402
Post by: CptJake
I think I remember CMON saying it would take 2-3 weeks to get it all sent out once they had the terrain packs. I think that means this coming week would be the final week of sending stuff out so hopefully by the following week we get our stuff.
54790
Post by: DiabolicAl
 DaveC wrote:I thought I would post about the comments if the size/scale of the miniatures. Apologies for not doing this sooner, but the past few weeks have been pretty full-on.
I have to say right off the bat, that I am unhappy with the shrinkage of some of the casts - it is certainly disappointing to me, and I'm sure it is to some of you too. Unfortunately, the ones that are the worst effected are the ones that were the thinnest to start with - the ones with a more chunky design have not suffered in the same way. It seems that the process is not kind to finer designs. I don't think the miniatures are ruined - but they are not quite how I had envisioned them coming out.
I can only apologies, and learn from it.
As for the scale... Well as anybody who has been in the hobby for a while knows - discussions on scale and proportions are likely to open up a huge can of worms and polarise opinions. But here we go...
The first Sedition Wars human miniatures (Vanguard) were mainly sculpted by one person, and when that person was not available to work on the wave two material, I had to give the commissions to other sculptors. The people I am working with on SW now, are of the more realistic school of proportion when it comes to humans - so smaller heads compared to bodies, and generally a little finer. They are the same people who have been working with on the bulk of my LE resin line for the past few years, and the proportions there lead to absolutely no complaint . I had to make a decision about the future of the SW range - and who was going to be sculpting the bulk of it going forward, and I decided the more realistic approach was going to be the one that would lead to the best consistency in the future.
You most likely think I should have had the new sculptors work to a style that matched more closely with the original miniatures - but that wasn't really a workable solution. When you try and get creative people to work in a style they are not comfortable with - the results are never good in the long term, and you end up with more problems with quality and consistency. We tried for a half-way house - and if characters were going to be in units with the older miniatures (like Ramirez), we tried to match more closely.
The other factor here, is the subject matter. Some of the wave two characters are supposed to be closely inspired by 'real' subjects, so to get an accurate representation I thought it best to go down the realism route - that was particularly the case with Hexen and Ridley, and the Calamity crew. I didn't want 'war-games' versions of those characters - with large heads and chunky bodies. That was the decision I took at the time - was that the right choice? Given how they suffered in shrinkage terms, I'm no so sure now - but that was my choice, and I'll have to live with it.
Overall I'm not as happy with Wave 2 as I had hoped to be - but they are by no means terrible, and I think many of the miniatures came out very well.
mike
Well this is looking like a total cluster from the ground up really isnt it? I really regret bakcing this now, and when i FINALLY get wave 2 (i've had 2 shipping notifications from CMON 4 weeks apart but BOTH say the label is just printed) it's probably going to languish in a box somewhere and ill gaze at it disappointedly from time to time. Those THI suits are a total rip too.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Yeah, I'm pretty much done with Sedition Wars and McVey moving forward.
Very, very disappointing.
4402
Post by: CptJake
 DiabolicAl wrote:
Well this is looking like a total cluster from the ground up really isnt it? I really regret bakcing this now, and when i FINALLY get wave 2 (i've had 2 shipping notifications from CMON 4 weeks apart but BOTH say the label is just printed) it's probably going to languish in a box somewhere and ill gaze at it disappointedly from time to time. Those THI suits are a total rip too.
At least you got a shipping notice. I'm still waiting for that.
21131
Post by: Gomez
 Alpharius wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty much done with Sedition Wars and McVey moving forward.
Very, very disappointing.
I'm not quite at that point yet as I quite like the game, the universe, and most of the minis. But I agree that this thing has been wildly disappointing and has virtually killed SW's future prospects. I just can't see myself working with restic ever again, I loved the original minis and have no interest in seeing the scale shift, and I don't want to give CMON another dollar of mine...
47402
Post by: ThaneCawdor
 CptJake wrote: DiabolicAl wrote:
Well this is looking like a total cluster from the ground up really isnt it? I really regret bakcing this now, and when i FINALLY get wave 2 (i've had 2 shipping notifications from CMON 4 weeks apart but BOTH say the label is just printed) it's probably going to languish in a box somewhere and ill gaze at it disappointedly from time to time. Those THI suits are a total rip too.
At least you got a shipping notice. I'm still waiting for that.
Could be worse- I received a shipping notice on the 12th.. .showing the Shipping Info Received on the 10th.... and it still hasn't been updated.
So apparently they packaged & labeled my box 10 days ago and still haven't bothered giving it to the postman
19136
Post by: Forlorn
DaveC wrote:I thought I would post about the comments if the size/scale of the miniatures. Apologies for not doing this sooner, but the past few weeks have been pretty full-on.
I have to say right off the bat, that I am unhappy with the shrinkage of some of the casts - it is certainly disappointing to me, and I'm sure it is to some of you too. Unfortunately, the ones that are the worst effected are the ones that were the thinnest to start with - the ones with a more chunky design have not suffered in the same way. It seems that the process is not kind to finer designs. I don't think the miniatures are ruined - but they are not quite how I had envisioned them coming out.
I can only apologies, and learn from it.
As for the scale... Well as anybody who has been in the hobby for a while knows - discussions on scale and proportions are likely to open up a huge can of worms and polarise opinions. But here we go...
The first Sedition Wars human miniatures (Vanguard) were mainly sculpted by one person, and when that person was not available to work on the wave two material, I had to give the commissions to other sculptors. The people I am working with on SW now, are of the more realistic school of proportion when it comes to humans - so smaller heads compared to bodies, and generally a little finer. They are the same people who have been working with on the bulk of my LE resin line for the past few years, and the proportions there lead to absolutely no complaint . I had to make a decision about the future of the SW range - and who was going to be sculpting the bulk of it going forward, and I decided the more realistic approach was going to be the one that would lead to the best consistency in the future.
You most likely think I should have had the new sculptors work to a style that matched more closely with the original miniatures - but that wasn't really a workable solution. When you try and get creative people to work in a style they are not comfortable with - the results are never good in the long term, and you end up with more problems with quality and consistency. We tried for a half-way house - and if characters were going to be in units with the older miniatures (like Ramirez), we tried to match more closely.
The other factor here, is the subject matter. Some of the wave two characters are supposed to be closely inspired by 'real' subjects, so to get an accurate representation I thought it best to go down the realism route - that was particularly the case with Hexen and Ridley, and the Calamity crew. I didn't want 'war-games' versions of those characters - with large heads and chunky bodies. That was the decision I took at the time - was that the right choice? Given how they suffered in shrinkage terms, I'm no so sure now - but that was my choice, and I'll have to live with it.
Overall I'm not as happy with Wave 2 as I had hoped to be - but they are by no means terrible, and I think many of the miniatures came out very well.
mike
Nothing like a half ass admission that the figures are of poor quality and are small compared to WAVE 1. Love it. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. Never again.
115
Post by: Azazelx
Alpharius wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty much done with Sedition Wars and McVey moving forward.
Very, very disappointing.
Yeah. He's got to live with it. So do we. I spent/wasted a lot of money on those pieces of gak that I could have spent on any number of better models. "I'm so sad the expensive figures I sold you are gakky" doesn't really do it for me.
60720
Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
come on $5 per figure is not that expensive
(THI suits aside)
37728
Post by: IdentifyZero
You're joking right? We paid $10 an optional figure for the most part. I didn't pay for the strain versions of them, those came as a free bonus.
Let's face it, in any other kickstarter, these bonus figures would have likely been resin given the prices.
Long story short, hope Mike enjoyed his share of that million dollars.. likely the last major sum of money he will ever see in his life now that he's tanked his business to the gaming community.
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
 IdentifyZero wrote:You're joking right? We paid $10 an optional figure for the most part. I didn't pay for the strain versions of them, those came as a free bonus.
That's a pretty nit-picky semantic argument. Yes, they were technically sold as $10 minis that happened to get bonus minis, but they were all sold under the same structure of ultimately being $5/mini because they wanted to make each deal more desirable, and IIRC none were at any risk of not getting the bonus minis.
It's like saying buy1-get1 deals are bad deals because the first one's full price.
A slightly more serious complaint to make would be that the above structure limited your flexibility/the granularity of what you could choose to buy, but even that's not much of an argument: minis most often come in set packs where you can't pick and choose.
There are plenty of real problems with this KS/process, but "I technically was paying $10 for one mini and nothing for another" isn't one of them.
Also, please, cite a KS that has had $5 resin LE minis, other than the anomaly that was Bones. (Or $10 ones and free ones, if you really want to hold on to that weird argument.) Seriously, this isn't a joke or a dig or challenge or anything: I want to be informed on what games did that, because it's kind of impressive and I haven't seen it.
37728
Post by: IdentifyZero
 spiralingcadaver wrote: IdentifyZero wrote:You're joking right? We paid $10 an optional figure for the most part. I didn't pay for the strain versions of them, those came as a free bonus.
That's a pretty nit-picky semantic argument. Yes, they were technically sold as $10 minis that happened to get bonus minis, but they were all sold under the same structure of ultimately being $5/mini because they wanted to make each deal more desirable, and IIRC none were at any risk of not getting the bonus minis.
It's like saying buy1-get1 deals are bad deals because the first one's full price.
A slightly more serious complaint to make would be that the above structure limited your flexibility/the granularity of what you could choose to buy, but even that's not much of an argument: minis most often come in set packs where you can't pick and choose.
There are plenty of real problems with this KS/process, but "I technically was paying $10 for one mini and nothing for another" isn't one of them.
Also, please, cite a KS that has had $5 resin LE minis, other than the anomaly that was Bones. (Or $10 ones and free ones, if you really want to hold on to that weird argument.) Seriously, this isn't a joke or a dig or challenge or anything: I want to be informed on what games did that, because it's kind of impressive and I haven't seen it.
Comment removed. Reds8n , the strain versions of the miniatures were FREE unlocks. Purchasing those miniatures had nothing to do with the unlocks. If you want to apply that logic in other places as well, it's not going to do you any good.
Also, you know who was selling $10 resin miniatures.. wait for it.. oh... Studio McVeys Sedition Wars lineup when they came out.
You know who did $15 resin miniatures in a larger scale as add-ons? Kingdom Death.
Please Spiral, stop defending Studio McVey and this project altogether. You're the only one who still seems to be there trying to defend them, or is it you have a hard on for replying to only my posts/ I've seen a lot worse stuff posted since Wave 2 was announced than I ever posted on these topics, the difference is, you only and the fanbois seem to like to appear when I post. Is your problem with what I said or just with me? Seems like your problem is with me because you have a twisted obsession, verging on something that gives you pleasure in trying to defend Sedition Wars from my comments but not others.
(P.S. On the resin miniatures for $10, I can give you about a dozen more manufacturers who sell products of high quality resin sculpts for $10 each. This restic gak isn't worth $1 a miniature, let alone $5 or $10. Give it up Spiral).
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Post by: Alpharius
I don't think there's much good to come from getting down to that level of detailing the problem that many have with this Kickstarter.
It is all rather obvious and sad at this point.
For me, once my Wave 2 stuff comes in, it is all going up on eBay and I hope to get back some of what I put into this thing, and then just move on.
37728
Post by: IdentifyZero
Alpharius wrote:I don't think there's much good to come from getting down to that level of detailing the problem that many have with this Kickstarter.
It is all rather obvious and sad at this point.
For me, once my Wave 2 stuff comes in, it is all going up on eBay and I hope to get back some of what I put into this thing, and then just move on.
I'm going to box all mine up and ask Mike McVey if he is willing to buy it back for what I paid. No Joke.
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Thanks for the assumptions and inferences about what I said, plus some insults and misinformation. It's been fun.
37728
Post by: IdentifyZero
spiralingcadaver wrote:Thanks for the assumptions and inferences about what I said, plus some insults and misinformation. It's been fun.
Thanks for attacking everything I post no matter how factual it is.
54729
Post by: AegisGrimm
I don't think there's much good to come from getting down to that level of detailing the problem that many have with this Kickstarter.
It is all rather obvious and sad at this point.
For me, once my Wave 2 stuff comes in, it is all going up on eBay and I hope to get back some of what I put into this thing, and then just move on.
Same here. I don't really want to take the time required just to prep the base game figures for priming, let alone paint them all after all of this. Much less the extras from the Biohazard level. Other than the clear opticamo Vanguard (which are really cool), I completely regret buying Ridley and a THI suit. The suit is way too small for a 15 dollar figure, and the strain model of Ridley is horrid compared to the artwork.
This single campaign has actually colored me towards other campaigns that are using Restic as their material of choice.
It's unfortunate that backing this campaign was a complete splurge made just before the (relative) chaos of my wedding, as I can think of many other games I could have made better use of spending $150 on. If I could get $100 dollars for it on Ebay, I'd do it right now, and buy more X-Wing ships, or something-or even better, put it towards Deadzone minis to use for 40K.
65077
Post by: Triple9
I view SW as a cautionary tale. It's definitely taught me to be much more conservative with my pledges as well as with pledge managers. My 250 pledge here has saved me at least 4X that since January.
37597
Post by: sparkywtf
Triple9 wrote:I view SW as a cautionary tale. It's definitely taught me to be much more conservative with my pledges as well as with pledge managers. My 250 pledge here has saved me at least 4X that since January.
Very much this.
Also I figure even if it isn't the top quality stuff we all were promised, I am not too upset. I also look at it as a way to expand my skillset with a different material and technique, and as a newer painter, plenty of fodder for the paint brush.
42144
Post by: cincydooley
IdentifyZero wrote:, .
(P.S. On the resin miniatures for $10, I can give you about a dozen more manufacturers who sell products of high quality resin sculpts for $10 each. This restic gak isn't worth $1 a miniature, let alone $5 or $10. Give it up Spiral).
I'd actually love to know this.....
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
Yep, agreed that it would be a good resource. I've never seen a $10 resin I've wanted (I find Bones's line which I find generic and not the best sculpts, and GW has some for non-uniques but characters are around $20 +/- $5), which is why I asked hoping for a useful resource, and got the snarky response of SMV's own resins (which are currently around $20... don't know what price they were before years of inflation and fluctuation of exchange rates) and KD's (which are $25+).
37728
Post by: IdentifyZero
spiralingcadaver wrote:Yep, agreed that it would be a good resource. I've never seen a $10 resin I've wanted (I find Bones's line which I find generic and not the best sculpts, and GW has some for non-uniques but characters are around $20 +/- $5), which is why I asked hoping for a useful resource, and got the snarky response of SMV's own resins (which are currently around $20... don't know what price they were before years of inflation and fluctuation of exchange rates) and KD's (which are $25+).
Nocturna, Black Scorpion Miniatures just to name two off the top of my head.
You earned the snarky response you got. SMVs resins were $10 CDN when they were new.
37597
Post by: sparkywtf
IdentifyZero wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote:Yep, agreed that it would be a good resource. I've never seen a $10 resin I've wanted (I find Bones's line which I find generic and not the best sculpts, and GW has some for non-uniques but characters are around $20 +/- $5), which is why I asked hoping for a useful resource, and got the snarky response of SMV's own resins (which are currently around $20... don't know what price they were before years of inflation and fluctuation of exchange rates) and KD's (which are $25+).
Nocturna, Black Scorpion Miniatures just to name two off the top of my head.
You earned the snarky response you got. SMVs resins were $10 CDN when they were new.
Since we are being snarky, I didn't find anything close to $10 from Nocturna.
Edit: I looked further at Black Scorpion, lots of good deals there actually.
19136
Post by: Forlorn
sparkywtf wrote:Triple9 wrote:I view SW as a cautionary tale. It's definitely taught me to be much more conservative with my pledges as well as with pledge managers. My 250 pledge here has saved me at least 4X that since January.
Very much this.
Also I figure even if it isn't the top quality stuff we all were promised, I am not too upset. I also look at it as a way to expand my skillset with a different material and technique, and as a newer painter, plenty of fodder for the paint brush.
So Sparky you're the type of personality that if punched square in the nuts would look at it as way to expand your pain threshold for future punches to the nuts? 
37597
Post by: sparkywtf
Forlorn wrote:sparkywtf wrote:Triple9 wrote:I view SW as a cautionary tale. It's definitely taught me to be much more conservative with my pledges as well as with pledge managers. My 250 pledge here has saved me at least 4X that since January.
Very much this.
Also I figure even if it isn't the top quality stuff we all were promised, I am not too upset. I also look at it as a way to expand my skillset with a different material and technique, and as a newer painter, plenty of fodder for the paint brush.
So Sparky you're the type of personality that if punched square in the nuts would look at it as way to expand your pain threshold for future punches to the nuts?
Something like that.
42144
Post by: cincydooley
IdentifyZero wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote:Yep, agreed that it would be a good resource. I've never seen a $10 resin I've wanted (I find Bones's line which I find generic and not the best sculpts, and GW has some for non-uniques but characters are around $20 +/- $5), which is why I asked hoping for a useful resource, and got the snarky response of SMV's own resins (which are currently around $20... don't know what price they were before years of inflation and fluctuation of exchange rates) and KD's (which are $25+).
Nocturna, Black Scorpion Miniatures just to name two off the top of my head.
You earned the snarky response you got. SMVs resins were $10 CDN when they were new.
That nocturna joint definitely doesn't have a thing under $10. Neat little site with the black scorpion stuff, but I'm not convinced based on their pictures that those resins are anywhere near KD or McVey resin quality. Honestly, based solely on the pictures it looks like my plastic Sedition Wars stuff has more detail than everything save their collectors line.
I guess I'm just not convinced there's a bevy or cheap resin lines out there.....
37728
Post by: IdentifyZero
 cincydooley wrote: IdentifyZero wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote:Yep, agreed that it would be a good resource. I've never seen a $10 resin I've wanted (I find Bones's line which I find generic and not the best sculpts, and GW has some for non-uniques but characters are around $20 +/- $5), which is why I asked hoping for a useful resource, and got the snarky response of SMV's own resins (which are currently around $20... don't know what price they were before years of inflation and fluctuation of exchange rates) and KD's (which are $25+).
Nocturna, Black Scorpion Miniatures just to name two off the top of my head.
You earned the snarky response you got. SMVs resins were $10 CDN when they were new.
That nocturna joint definitely doesn't have a thing under $10. Neat little site with the black scorpion stuff, but I'm not convinced based on their pictures that those resins are anywhere near KD or McVey resin quality. Honestly, based solely on the pictures it looks like my plastic Sedition Wars stuff has more detail than everything save their collectors line.
I guess I'm just not convinced there's a bevy or cheap resin lines out there.....
It seems their prices went up, the 30mm resins used to be $10. The detail blows KD & Studio McVey away on the actual models, no such thing as mould lines.
I can tell you the Black Scorpion stuff is also of extremely high quality as well, prefer it to any Kingdom Death model I owned, which to be fair are pretty gimmicky and lifeless.
Also check out Kabuki miniatures, the first line of any 21st century pinup goes for $10 & under in resin. Oh, have you guys heard of this website called COOL MINI OR NOT? They have tons of resin figures for $10 or less. Insanity right?
Or is it just the desire to try and prove me wrong when you all know I am right?
58873
Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I think all the jibber-jabber about $10 resin is missing the point now: are any of you willing to argue that these restic characters are worth $10? (Keep in mind that the dog-poop-shaped strain versions were not a selling point for many of us, and are really just bits box ballast.)
Even if you want to say that the strain versions are worth $5 (with a straight face, even), we still ended up with some severely disappointing models of about Reaper metal cost and quality in a medium that makes Reaper's metals feel like ice cube mouth-pleasure in comparison. This KS really gave me a new hatred for restic.
Okay, I'm still really, really bitter over paying $15 for the THI suits. Really bitter.
8617
Post by: Hulksmash
Yeah, the THI suits stings. I'm pissed about how much I spent on them.
I'm ebaying the some of the extra models I bought for completionists out there and those are at least getting their money back plus some (not much). I'll probably keep the actual "games". The boards will be excellent for any skirmish type games I wanna do the in the future and the standard game models aren't bad to work with at all for me.
Basically, am I happy with this? Nope. Would I buy from McVey again on this scale? Nope. Has it made me super reserved on what I back and for how much? Yep.
Honestly, between this and mantic's KoW (which I didn't back) I was super reserved on my Deadzone purchase (basically bought a bunch of scenery). I was also pretty reserved with my Wrath of Kings by CMoN.
Oh well, I'll sell all my stuff I can, recoup some of that $515 I spent on this and have enough models for 2 full IG platoons and a full armies worth of Plague Zombies.
123
Post by: Alpharius
Upon further review...
Since I probably won't be able to even come close to recouping my $250 here, I might just keep the bases and use them for my Infinity stuff, and then see what I can salvage from the rest.
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Post by: cincydooley
IdentifyZero wrote: cincydooley wrote: IdentifyZero wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote:Yep, agreed that it would be a good resource. I've never seen a $10 resin I've wanted (I find Bones's line which I find generic and not the best sculpts, and GW has some for non-uniques but characters are around $20 +/- $5), which is why I asked hoping for a useful resource, and got the snarky response of SMV's own resins (which are currently around $20... don't know what price they were before years of inflation and fluctuation of exchange rates) and KD's (which are $25+).
Nocturna, Black Scorpion Miniatures just to name two off the top of my head.
You earned the snarky response you got. SMVs resins were $10 CDN when they were new.
That nocturna joint definitely doesn't have a thing under $10. Neat little site with the black scorpion stuff, but I'm not convinced based on their pictures that those resins are anywhere near KD or McVey resin quality. Honestly, based solely on the pictures it looks like my plastic Sedition Wars stuff has more detail than everything save their collectors line.
I guess I'm just not convinced there's a bevy or cheap resin lines out there.....
It seems their prices went up, the 30mm resins used to be $10. The detail blows KD & Studio McVey away on the actual models, no such thing as mould lines.
I can tell you the Black Scorpion stuff is also of extremely high quality as well, prefer it to any Kingdom Death model I owned, which to be fair are pretty gimmicky and lifeless.
Also check out Kabuki miniatures, the first line of any 21st century pinup goes for $10 & under in resin. Oh, have you guys heard of this website called COOL MINI OR NOT? They have tons of resin figures for $10 or less. Insanity right?
Or is it just the desire to try and prove me wrong when you all know I am right?
I'm intimately familiar with CMoN. They don't carry any resin lines that offer consistent $10 character models in resin. The only thing you get is scibor, and even then only their smaller models are still $11.
Additionally, Kabuki doesn't offer anything close to that price range either.
I'm not trying to prove you're wrong. I just know you're grossly overspeaking about this abundance of "$10 resins" and don't think you need to go to that length of hyperbole to make your point the Sedition Wars restic stuff is "overpriced."
With all that being said, I'd still probably pay $30 for a box of 10 of the "regular" sedition wars troopers. I think they're quite nice ,and they are, IMO, significantly nicer than the only similar thing on the market, the Mantic Corporation models.
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Post by: Alpharius
cincy - I'll sell you my Sedition Wars stuff if you'd like! 
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Post by: rigeld2
I might buy the vanguard from a couple people - I really like those sculpts and sizes.
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Post by: cincydooley
Yeah, I may take you up on some of the Vanguard.
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Post by: Alpharius
Just let me know!
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Post by: Hulksmash
Yeah, I think if you are looking for some sweet looking IG and are a decent hand at converting (for specials and heavies) the Vanguard models are excellent. I don't have any complaints really about the initial wave I got.
My complaints are the time it took to get this thing completed, the THI suits that aren't even close to worth $15, and the shrinkage on the exclusive mini's.
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Post by: rigeld2
Yeah - I'm really upset at the shrinkage the Serenity crew got. They're frikkin tiny compared to what I was expecting. River is shockingly small imo.
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Post by: Target
rigeld2 wrote:Yeah - I'm really upset at the shrinkage the Serenity crew got. They're frikkin tiny compared to what I was expecting. River is shockingly small imo.
Truth.
And you laughed at me initially Hulksmash for saying this, EAT IT
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Post by: Hulksmash
Target wrote:rigeld2 wrote:Yeah - I'm really upset at the shrinkage the Serenity crew got. They're frikkin tiny compared to what I was expecting. River is shockingly small imo.
Truth.
And you laughed at me initially Hulksmash for saying this, EAT IT
Indeed I must. It feels like all 4 are at different scales. Jane is the right size for the game, the captain is close enough. Zoey is pretty close but distinctly smaller than she should be (especially considering she is not a tiny lady), and River is just ridiculous.
I'll go microwave it up and have it for lunch Target 
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Post by: Target
Oh well, at the end of the day my biohazard investment of 100 or 150 or whatever it cost me paid dividends - I learned to be much more skeptical and untrusting of kickstarters.
In the long run, this was probably well worth the lost money. Now these minis are left to languish in my closet until one day maybe I want some alternative guardsmen, or decide to try and paint up the game to play.
I'll probably try to paint up the serenity crew at some point, but I find myself most disappointed by these. The rest of the minis require a bit more cleanup than I wanted, but their main failing is that I'm not sure I have a use for them, and that's my fault. But the Serenity crew looked really good (pre-shrinkage) and I was going to spend a lot of time painting these up proper for a display case. After seeing mini-river, I'm having trouble getting motivated to bother.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:Even if you want to say that the strain versions are worth $5 (with a straight face, even), we still ended up with some severely disappointing models of about Reaper metal cost and quality in a medium that makes Reaper's metals feel like ice cube mouth-pleasure in comparison. This KS really gave me a new hatred for restic.
Nope. They aren't. However, they're limited edition, and most companies sell LE minis for more than their non- LE counterparts, as a result of them being in higher demand and the company not being able to reuse the mold indefinitely to recoup its costs more.
The problem isn't that they sold expensive or even overpriced LE minis (because that's pretty common), but that they weren't up to the standards of nice LE stuff or (from what I gather, I don't have them yet) the rest of the game.
And yeah, restic is pretty terrible stuff. I've never enjoyed working with it. I'm really hoping SMV eventually makes the shift to hard plastic.
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Post by: RiTides
Yeah, the problem is those exclusive and homage minis really drove up the final total of the kickstarter, and people added on significant funds for them, and they seem like they sucked.
Funny exchange, Target / Hulk
I almost backed this just to get the Serenity crew for a few friends. Glad that didn't happen since they seem to be among the most disappointing to folks.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Hmm, seems so many of us are thinking of ebaying this stuff, the prices are going to tank. Do'h.  Ah well.. live and learn.
Hell I still haven't broken the seal on my second box, tbh I think it'll be staying that way.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Heh, haven't even gotten my shipping confirmation but from the looks of it, I could make a bunch of THI suits work for me. Only ordered one, but prices on those tanking real bad would be a good thing for me. Not gonna pay over $8,25 per, shipped, for a bunch though and I don't think they'll go quite that low.
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Post by: Forlorn
BobtheInquisitor wrote:I think all the jibber-jabber about $10 resin is missing the point now: are any of you willing to argue that these restic characters are worth $10? (Keep in mind that the dog-poop-shaped strain versions were not a selling point for many of us, and are really just bits box ballast.)
Even if you want to say that the strain versions are worth $5 (with a straight face, even), we still ended up with some severely disappointing models of about Reaper metal cost and quality in a medium that makes Reaper's metals feel like ice cube mouth-pleasure in comparison. This KS really gave me a new hatred for restic.
Okay, I'm still really, really bitter over paying $15 for the THI suits. Really bitter.
Bob,
I am bitter over the entire venture. I am so tired of people attempting to defend this it makes me seriously want to find them and give them a pain threshold punch to the nuts. From having to put parts in hot water to bend them back into place, to warped boards, to off center tokens, to missing parts, to a rulebook that doesn't seem to have been play tested, to mold lines that chew up blades faster than a fat kid on candy, to Wave 2 figures that aren't even comparable in size to Wave 1, to having to buy a rulebook for the updated rules if I don't want a PDF. Seriously?
This will forever be stuck with me...
A Deep Space Horror board game with 50 amazing miniatures from Mike McVey!
What a god damn disappointment.
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Post by: Breotan
Forlorn wrote:This will forever be stuck with me...
A Deep Space Horror board game with 50 amazing miniatures from Mike McVey!
What a god damn disappointment.
This pretty much sums it up and serves as a warning for any other kickstarter I might consider getting involved with. PVC is not a good material to be making tiny figurines out of and I really wish miniatures companies would stop pretending it is. Still, the first run of models weren't as crappy as Mantic's Kings of War line but that really isn't a high bar to hurdle. I'm still waiting for my stuff to arrive and that's nearly as irritating as getting bad figures. :/
Yea, I likely won't invest in any more McVey kickstarters.
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Post by: Piston Honda
 Breotan wrote: Forlorn wrote:This will forever be stuck with me...
A Deep Space Horror board game with 50 amazing miniatures from Mike McVey!
What a god damn disappointment.
This pretty much sums it up and serves as a warning for any other kickstarter I might consider getting involved with. PVC is not a good material to be making tiny figurines out of and I really wish miniatures companies would stop pretending it is.
This.
I will never ever complain about metal again and take everything I said about Infinity being made in metal.
I know metal will eventually be a thing of the past, just don't want restic to be the common future of minis.
Regarding nocturna miniatures... Holly hell are those some sexy minis.
And yes, the bases will be great for infinity or any scifi game. 
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
The wave 1 vangard were awesome models. If Studio McVey released them in "real" plastic--or, hell, in Bonesium--I'd buy a ton more of them. They looked great with a super simple paint job, and they really feel science fictiony. Well, I would prefer for the ladies to be reposed a bit, but otherwise they are fantastic sculpts. It's a shame the restic and Wave 2 really brought down the rest of the kickstarter.
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Post by: endtransmission
My "Wave 2" box just got delivered and it is missing almost all of the paid for additions (Ridley, Niven, Hexen, Ramirez, Calamity Crew, 5 THI and an extra Gnosis). Not a happy bunny. I strongly recommend checking your packages as they arrive :/
I did get my terrain set though, so that's something. It's nicely detailed, though some cleanup will need to be done as there are clear lines of flash on some pieces, mostly the mutated pieces of terrain. The box says hard plastic and it certainly sounds like it though I can't confirm this at the moment though as I'm in work.
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Post by: zedmeister
 endtransmission wrote:My "Wave 2" box just got delivered and it is missing almost all of the paid for additions (Ridley, Niven, Hexen, Ramirez, Calamity Crew, 5 THI and an extra Gnosis). Not a happy bunny. I strongly recommend checking your packages as they arrive :/
I did get my terrain set though, so that's something. It's nicely detailed, though some cleanup will need to be done as there are clear lines of flash on some pieces, mostly the mutated pieces of terrain. The box says hard plastic and it certainly sounds like it though I can't confirm this at the moment though as I'm in work.
Are any of the pieces pre-glued? I've seen reports of some sets coming with some parts having been glued together at the factory
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Post by: Bacms
endtransmission wrote:My "Wave 2" box just got delivered and it is missing almost all of the paid for additions (Ridley, Niven, Hexen, Ramirez, Calamity Crew, 5 THI and an extra Gnosis). Not a happy bunny. I strongly recommend checking your packages as they arrive :/
I did get my terrain set though, so that's something. It's nicely detailed, though some cleanup will need to be done as there are clear lines of flash on some pieces, mostly the mutated pieces of terrain. The box says hard plastic and it certainly sounds like it though I can't confirm this at the moment though as I'm in work.
Did you get a tracking number?
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Post by: rigeld2
 zedmeister wrote:Are any of the pieces pre-glued? I've seen reports of some sets coming with some parts having been glued together at the factory
O.o
That doesn't make sense at all...
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Post by: Azazelx
$100 worth of gak is $100 no longer in my pocket, and instead replaced with gak. I'm happy to sell them to you (or anyone else) at cost if you think they're fine.
Still no shipping information anyway. For this, or for Zombicide.
Heh, I notice that we haven't heard anything from CMON on either since a couple of days before WoK finished.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
endtransmission wrote:My "Wave 2" box just got delivered and it is missing almost all of the paid for additions (Ridley, Niven, Hexen, Ramirez, Calamity Crew, 5 THI and an extra Gnosis). Not a happy bunny. I strongly recommend checking your packages as they arrive :/
I did get my terrain set though, so that's something. It's nicely detailed, though some cleanup will need to be done as there are clear lines of flash on some pieces, mostly the mutated pieces of terrain. The box says hard plastic and it certainly sounds like it though I can't confirm this at the moment though as I'm in work.
Did you get caught by a customs charge end?
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Post by: Bacms
 Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote: endtransmission wrote:My "Wave 2" box just got delivered and it is missing almost all of the paid for additions (Ridley, Niven, Hexen, Ramirez, Calamity Crew, 5 THI and an extra Gnosis). Not a happy bunny. I strongly recommend checking your packages as they arrive :/
I did get my terrain set though, so that's something. It's nicely detailed, though some cleanup will need to be done as there are clear lines of flash on some pieces, mostly the mutated pieces of terrain. The box says hard plastic and it certainly sounds like it though I can't confirm this at the moment though as I'm in work.
Did you get caught by a customs charge end?
They are shipped by Battlefoam UK so no customs charges
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Ah cool.. and yeah getting wires crossed with Game Salute and the Necros' Wild West game.
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Post by: rigeld2
USA & Rest of world shipping complete Wednesday - EU shipping soon after
Update #114 · Sep 24, 2013 · 2 comments
We've been informed by our warehouse that the USA shipping will be complete Wednesday, and EU shipping will also be done soon after. We'll update again once we receive word that everything is out the door from both warehouses.
If you've received a mispacked package or a failed delivery attempt please send an email to support@coolminiornot.com and we'll make sure you get any missing items.
Sent them an email. We'll see what happens.
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Post by: Catyrpelius
rigeld2 wrote: USA & Rest of world shipping complete Wednesday - EU shipping soon after
Update #114 · Sep 24, 2013 · 2 comments
We've been informed by our warehouse that the USA shipping will be complete Wednesday, and EU shipping will also be done soon after. We'll update again once we receive word that everything is out the door from both warehouses.
If you've received a mispacked package or a failed delivery attempt please send an email to support@coolminiornot.com and we'll make sure you get any missing items.
Sent them an email. We'll see what happens.
Their pretty good about getting problems solved. With the original Zombicide I got a tracking email but according to UPS the package never left their facility. Turns out my package got lost somewhere and as soon as I contacted them they had a new set shipped out to me the same day.
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Post by: Azazelx
 Azazelx wrote:
Still no shipping information anyway. For this, or for Zombicide.
Heh, I notice that we haven't heard anything from CMON on either since a couple of days before WoK finished.
I stand corrected on the Updates. No shipping info still, though.
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Post by: Bolognesus
I can somewhat understand not posting "yyyup, still sending gak" day in, day out - not really newsworthy and those updates go out to everyone, if it gets annoying they click "receive no further updates for this project" and CMoN loses an avenue to approach backers properly; that's not something you want.
Aside from that they stated it would take several weeks to send everything; I don't think we're past those deadlines yet (okay, SW is close at least but they're updating, so that's good) so IMO they're communicating sufficiently now.
What else would you have wanted them to post during these weeks?
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Post by: gunslingerpro
So I should have my Wave 2 email tomorrow?
Why do I sense this won't be happening? And where is my Zombicide 2?
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Post by: DiabolicAl
Well i just got my SW wave 2 in the post. (looks like all of it)
Aaaand........ its not a complete waste.
Not as nice as i'd hoped. Not as bad as i'd feared. some bits are quite nice. As SMV minis they are disappointing, as board game minis they are fine. It all pales in comparison to the Resin Kara though.
Once thing i WILL give props to SMV/CMON for is arranging shipping within the EU. (these were actually sent from 5 min down the road) it may have been a somewhat arduous process but i am about to get hammered for customs charges for my Reaper Bones stuff so i really appreciate being spared that for Sedition Wars.
Still unlikely ill back AOS though i have to say.
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Post by: endtransmission
Nope. It just turned up without warning. There's no tracking information in the pledge manager either, though I did get an email afterwards saying it had been delivered and signed for. Most helpful.
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Post by: Azazelx
Someone got their terrain on the McVey boards. It's apparently partially pre-assembled. With the usual Sedition Wars attention to detail and quality control...
Link to thread..
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Post by: CptJake
As I commented on that thread, the terrain was what was keeping me positive about the project. I have two sets of it (hopefully) on the way. Seeing those pictures has really pissed me off.
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Post by: Alpharius
CptJake wrote:As I commented on that thread, the terrain was what was keeping me positive about the project. I have two sets of it (hopefully) on the way. Seeing those pictures has really pissed me off.
I was wrong - I guess it can get worse for this Kickstarter.
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Post by: Catyrpelius
CptJake wrote:As I commented on that thread, the terrain was what was keeping me positive about the project. I have two sets of it (hopefully) on the way. Seeing those pictures has really pissed me off.
I have two sets of the terrain coming to me...
I will say this about the McVey forums. Only a handful of people seem to have received Wave 2 with terrain yet, of those people only one of them has had a really bad experiance with it, and even then with only one peice from the kit. I get the feeling that the actual problem might be alittle overblown.
I'm also suprised by the number of positive comments about the Wave 2 stuff on their forums. It gives me some hope that the models aren't as bad as some people are making them out to be. Maybe if my stuff ever ships I'll get to see for myself.
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Post by: DiabolicAl
Just had a look at mine and they are a little wonky but nowhere near that bad. I guess Chinese assembly lines are not the most circumspect when it comes to miniature terrain assembly.
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Post by: Bacms
Got my shipping notification just now. The only think I was looking for was my two sets of terrain...after those pictures it might as well not show up
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Post by: DiabolicAl
One thing i will comment on is the photo for the terrain box. ITS SHOCKING! i dunno if its just the print but its very dark and overly contrasted and it looks like a KO in all honesty.
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Post by: cincydooley
Sigh, at this point I'm not expecting any kind of shipping notification. For this or my Zombicide 2 Stuff. Getting a lil frustrating.
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Post by: Target
If it makes you feel any better, while I did get mine a week or two ago, I got my shipping notice almost a full week after my package arrived. So lack of shipping notice doesn't mean it hasn't already been sent out
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Post by: CptJake
cincydooley wrote:Sigh, at this point I'm not expecting any kind of shipping notification. For this or my Zombicide 2 Stuff. Getting a lil frustrating.
I'm there with you. For the original Zombicide I did not get a shipping notice, but knew they were shipping. Mail delivery person pulled up to the house and was bringing a box that was the right size to be my order, and I was stoked! Couldn't wait to get it inside and rip it open. But it seemed a little lighter than I expected. That is because instead of a box of undead goodness it was some lame ol' purse my wife had ordered. I was sad.
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Post by: Slinky
CptJake wrote: cincydooley wrote:Sigh, at this point I'm not expecting any kind of shipping notification. For this or my Zombicide 2 Stuff. Getting a lil frustrating.
I'm there with you.
For the original Zombicide I did not get a shipping notice, but knew they were shipping. Mail delivery person pulled up to the house and was bringing a box that was the right size to be my order, and I was stoked! Couldn't wait to get it inside and rip it open. But it seemed a little lighter than I expected. That is because instead of a box of undead goodness it was some lame ol' purse my wife had ordered. I was sad.
Last week I got a UPS shipping notice with the reference "Zombicide".
Then it arrived in a tiny little envelope.
It turned out to be the extra Sedition Wars figure they hadn't sent first time.
Except it was wrong.
So a double whammy of disappointment
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Post by: Catyrpelius
cincydooley wrote:Sigh, at this point I'm not expecting any kind of shipping notification. For this or my Zombicide 2 Stuff. Getting a lil frustrating.
I just got a shipment notification with a fedex tracking number...
Looks like my stuff was shipped out on Monday and it should be here any day now.
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Post by: cincydooley
 Catyrpelius wrote: cincydooley wrote:Sigh, at this point I'm not expecting any kind of shipping notification. For this or my Zombicide 2 Stuff. Getting a lil frustrating.
I just got a shipment notification with a fedex tracking number...
Looks like my stuff was shipped out on Monday and it should be here any day now.
Just got the same thing, coincidentally.
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Post by: zedmeister
I got my Wave 2 finally (after having received a duplicate of my Wave 1 order!)
(I didn't go for any homages as I never wanted them)
The THI suit is impressive at first glance. Not bad as people have been making out, but close to how the resin version looks
All my characters are decently molded, though one of barkers roll cages looks to have been damaged in transit
Jada is slim but similar in size to Damaged Akosha
The only thing I am slightly disappointed with is the quality of the terrain set though. Plastic and molding itself is fine. However, it is pre-glued (who on earth thought that pre-gluing it was a good idea). Doors are nice though.
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Post by: CptJake
zedmeister wrote:I got my Wave 2 finally (after having received a duplicate of my Wave 1 order!)
Not fair! You got a second shipment to correct a messed up first shipment and some of us haven't even gotten our messed up first shipment yet! Darn you! 
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Post by: RiTides
zedmeister wrote:The only thing I am slightly disappointed with is the quality of the terrain set though. Plastic and molding itself is fine. However, it is pre-glued (who on earth thought that pre-gluing it was a good idea). Doors are nice though.
Bummer on the terrain! Glad the figs are okay for you, though.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Is there any set of instructions for assembling the THI suit? Either I'm missing some pieces, or using any of the optional arms will require some serious cutting and chopping.
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Post by: gunslingerpro
Finally got my confirmation this afternoon. At it was already at my folks house!
May have to make a trip up and snag it and Zombicide 2 when it comes in. Not in any rush, however
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Post by: Catyrpelius
zedmeister wrote:I got my Wave 2 finally (after having received a duplicate of my Wave 1 order!)
(I didn't go for any homages as I never wanted them)
The THI suit is impressive at first glance. Not bad as people have been making out, but close to how the resin version looks
All my characters are decently molded, though one of barkers roll cages looks to have been damaged in transit
Jada is slim but similar in size to Damaged Akosha
The only thing I am slightly disappointed with is the quality of the terrain set though. Plastic and molding itself is fine. However, it is pre-glued (who on earth thought that pre-gluing it was a good idea). Doors are nice though.
I had a talk with one of the CMoN/Sodapop guys awhile back when all of the Super Dungeon Explore stuff went to pre-assembled. It basically came down to there being two different camps in the arguement. There are people from this thread that look at it primarily for the minatures and the hobby side. Then there are the boardgamers that want a product they can play right out of the box. The sales figures work out to be that they can sell more of a preassembled product because they have a larger prospective audiance. The amount of minature guys that won't buy a preassembled game is small when compared to the amount of boardgamers that will buy a preassembled game.
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Post by: CptJake
That argument falls apart when you realize that not ALL the parts of the terrain set are preassembled though.
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Post by: cincydooley
Naw, those of us that would prefer to assemble on our own lose out to boardgamers everytime, because--and this is shocking--they're a more bitchy and entitled bunch than dakka could ever be.
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Post by: zedmeister
Catyrpelius wrote:
I had a talk with one of the CMoN/Sodapop guys awhile back when all of the Super Dungeon Explore stuff went to pre-assembled. It basically came down to there being two different camps in the arguement. There are people from this thread that look at it primarily for the minatures and the hobby side. Then there are the boardgamers that want a product they can play right out of the box. The sales figures work out to be that they can sell more of a preassembled product because they have a larger prospective audiance. The amount of minature guys that won't buy a preassembled game is small when compared to the amount of boardgamers that will buy a preassembled game.
I'd accept that if the main game miniatures were single pose or push fit. But if the main game pieces require cleanup and assembly beyond what you'd expect for boardgame pieces, I'd expect the terrain sets to be the same.
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Post by: Breotan
How is the terrain pre-glued? Cement? Superglue? Hot glue gun?
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
zedmeister wrote: Catyrpelius wrote:
I had a talk with one of the CMoN/Sodapop guys awhile back when all of the Super Dungeon Explore stuff went to pre-assembled. It basically came down to there being two different camps in the arguement. There are people from this thread that look at it primarily for the minatures and the hobby side. Then there are the boardgamers that want a product they can play right out of the box. The sales figures work out to be that they can sell more of a preassembled product because they have a larger prospective audiance. The amount of minature guys that won't buy a preassembled game is small when compared to the amount of boardgamers that will buy a preassembled game.
I'd accept that if the main game miniatures were single pose or push fit. But if the main game pieces require cleanup and assembly beyond what you'd expect for boardgame pieces, I'd expect the terrain sets to be the same.
Yeah :/ I feel like push fit models would have been a very strong middle ground, since there's nothing there that you couln't twist off a sprue if you were lazy, and I've seen some pretty good push fit work done in the material (including the SW characters). Without it, we're looking at some terribly glued models, I expect- those samaritan arms needed some TLC to fit right, and all of the more complex pieces would be very hard to break apart if put together incorrectly and/or would be likely to have some terrible gaps.
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Post by: Bacms
Just look at my package now.
First the packaging was terrible, there was a blister that was open and the mini drones plastic has ripped, meaning I had to hunt for small pieces in the middle of the polystyrene.
Second they actually didn't send my $3 rulebook that is completely useless even though they tricked me to buy it.
Third the plastics don't look too bad apart from the issues with the scale. The models are indeed ridiculous tinny, don't know how they accepted the samples for production as fair.
Fourth the terrain is actually still the best part, still looks great, and even with the annoyance of the preglued pieces it is probably the best value I got out of all this kickstarter
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I love the part where it took him 45 minutes to clean the mold lines, and then he admitted there were still some bits of mold line left that needed to be sanded off. Totally worth it, right?
Come on Bones 2....
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Post by: Alpharius
I hope that this whole debacle hasn't sunk McVey in terms of every getting the things off the ground that we'd hoped he would.
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Post by: Azazelx
CptJake wrote:As I commented on that thread, the terrain was what was keeping me positive about the project. I have two sets of it (hopefully) on the way. Seeing those pictures has really pissed me off.
I have three sets coming. Still, I'm less pissed off about those than I am the three THI suits.
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Post by: Triple9
I'll say the end results look fantastic, but reading between the lines, sounds like there were more than a few PITA steps. I'm guessing he was working from the pick of the litter as well.
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Post by: Azazelx
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I love the part where it took him 45 minutes to clean the mold lines, and then he admitted there were still some bits of mold line left that needed to be sanded off. Totally worth it, right?
Mike McVey wrote:
It took me about 45 minutes to clean all the parts and get them ready for assembly. There were still little tiny bits of mould line showing here and there - but I'd consider it more than adequate for a gaming miniature. Another 15 miniatures and I would have had it really well finished.
So an hour worth of clean up is acceptable? By someone as talented as McVey? (who I'm sure works faster and better than most of us). No.
Alpharius wrote:I hope that this whole debacle hasn't sunk McVey in terms of every getting the things off the ground that we'd hoped he would.
I dunno. I don't think I'd be willing to buy into much of anything that he puts out again. I don't think it would be such a bad thing for them to be set back a couple of years after their performance here. Perhaps he might do things a little bit better next time. The McVey forums are full of water-carriers who blame CMON for everything wrong with Sedition Wars of course (including even borked rules(, but despite my distaste for CMON, I think that's far too simplistic and convenient.
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Post by: AlexHolker
Alpharius wrote:I hope that this whole debacle hasn't sunk McVey in terms of every getting the things off the ground that we'd hoped he would.
I'm half hoping it has sunk him. I'd rather Studio McVey become a cautionary tale about what happens when you sell out on your own reputation for quality than proof that you can get away with murder.
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Post by: sparkywtf
 AlexHolker wrote: Alpharius wrote:I hope that this whole debacle hasn't sunk McVey in terms of every getting the things off the ground that we'd hoped he would.
I'm half hoping it has sunk him. I'd rather Studio McVey become a cautionary tale about what happens when you sell out on your own reputation for quality than proof that you can get away with murder.
If only there was some middle of the ground option. (although Alpharius' is more middle in terms of good vs bad).
I hope SMV has learned from this. They need to pull a WGF and show that they can do it right, they just need to kick out their Tony (which in my opinion is CMoN).
Would be great if they can improve and expand the line, since most of us are so committed already what with the value tanking, it would be even worse if the whole plug was pulled.
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Post by: Alpharius
Exactly!
We're all kind of 'stuck' now, as trying to sell it will at best get you .50 cents on the dollar, if you're extremely lucky.
I'd love for the next step to be him proving us all wrong or something along those lines!
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Post by: Catyrpelius
My package just arrived and I cracked it open!
I honestly don't see what you guys are complaining about. For the money everything has exceeded my expectations.
Pictures will be incoming once my phone charges enough to use it's flash.
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Post by: sparkywtf
Catyrpelius wrote:My package just arrived and I cracked it open!
I honestly don't see what you guys are complaining about. For the money everything has exceeded my expectations.
Pictures will be incoming once my phone charges enough to use it's flash.
It may have exceeded the expectations for the money, but it does not exceed (or meet) the expectations of what was promised.
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Post by: Catyrpelius
sparkywtf wrote: Catyrpelius wrote:My package just arrived and I cracked it open!
I honestly don't see what you guys are complaining about. For the money everything has exceeded my expectations.
Pictures will be incoming once my phone charges enough to use it's flash.
It may have exceeded the expectations for the money, but it does not exceed (or meet) the expectations of what was promised.
If you really expected McVey LE Resin Quality Miniatures in a $90 board game I've got a bridge you might be interested in.
When you look at these models compared to their closest competition... A Board game... They are some of the best I've ever seen.
When you compare these models to stuff miniature companies are putting out then I'd put them right up there with Mantic stuff.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
sparkywtf wrote:It may have exceeded the expectations for the money, but it does not exceed (or meet) the expectations of what was promised.
That's a pretty good way of putting it. I don't regret having bought in to this, though wish it had been done better. CMoN promised a lot and, having gotten a few SMV resins, I was hoping they'd do those sculpts more justice with casting/rules (no, I wasn't expecting gorgeous resins for $1/mini, but was hoping for a material that did edges well and didn't (from what I've heard) shrink some sculpts dramatically). The rules at least are improving (and I've actually been involved in testing them post-v2 and things have been going okay), but there's still a lot to work out... I'm still hoping the next release is done in a better medium.
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Post by: sparkywtf
Catyrpelius wrote:sparkywtf wrote: Catyrpelius wrote:My package just arrived and I cracked it open!
I honestly don't see what you guys are complaining about. For the money everything has exceeded my expectations.
Pictures will be incoming once my phone charges enough to use it's flash.
It may have exceeded the expectations for the money, but it does not exceed (or meet) the expectations of what was promised.
If you really expected McVey LE Resin Quality Miniatures in a $90 board game I've got a bridge you might be interested in.
When you look at these models compared to their closest competition... A Board game... They are some of the best I've ever seen.
When you compare these models to stuff miniature companies are putting out then I'd put them right up there with Mantic stuff.
We weren't expecting LE resin quality, but we were expecting high quality models.
Also putting them on the same level as mantic is probably not the best place to be. Even if their dreadball stuff is good, and deadzone is looking great, the material is still horrible, and KoW did not help their image. So maybe is a good comparison after all. Automatically Appended Next Post: spiralingcadaver wrote:sparkywtf wrote:It may have exceeded the expectations for the money, but it does not exceed (or meet) the expectations of what was promised.
That's a pretty good way of putting it. I don't regret having bought in to this, though wish it had been done better. CMoN promised a lot and, having gotten a few SMV resins, I was hoping they'd do those sculpts more justice with casting/rules (no, I wasn't expecting gorgeous resins for $1/mini, but was hoping for a material that did edges well and didn't (from what I've heard) shrink some sculpts dramatically). The rules at least are improving (and I've actually been involved in testing them post-v2 and things have been going okay), but there's still a lot to work out... I'm still hoping the next release is done in a better medium.
I don't regret the purchase either, but it does feel like we (being miniatures people) we cheated a bit.
The whole campaign is a great example of how to quickly kill your name in an industry where that is the most important thing going for you.
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Post by: Catyrpelius
The terrain... Both sets of my terrain were pretty much perfect. Lots of detail very little mold lines. After seeing them I'm not bothered by them being glued at the factory, with the way they are packaged it actually works well. There is also a large bag of doors that go with this tray.
Srinkage... I'm not seeing it, sorry the models aren't assembled but I haven't actually assembled anything for Sedition Wars other then the lights out campaign. This is the Not Serenity Crew. The female models are a little on the thin side but not as bad as I was lead to believe.
The THI suits, not as good as I was hoping for but not really bad either. With some cleanup and paint this should come out looking pretty good.
Maybe I just got lucky and got an extremely good batch of everything? Who knows, but I'm happy with what I got. If anyone wants more pictures of something let me know.
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Post by: IdentifyZero
Catyrpelius wrote:
The terrain... Both sets of my terrain were pretty much perfect. Lots of detail very little mold lines. After seeing them I'm not bothered by them being glued at the factory, with the way they are packaged it actually works well. There is also a large bag of doors that go with this tray.
Srinkage... I'm not seeing it, sorry the models aren't assembled but I haven't actually assembled anything for Sedition Wars other then the lights out campaign. This is the Not Serenity Crew. The female models are a little on the thin side but not as bad as I was lead to believe.
The THI suits, not as good as I was hoping for but not really bad either. With some cleanup and paint this should come out looking pretty good.
Maybe I just got lucky and got an extremely good batch of everything? Who knows, but I'm happy with what I got. If anyone wants more pictures of something let me know.
Did Mike McVey clean those for you himself? If they came out of the bag like that, you got lucky.. very lucky.
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Post by: Catyrpelius
My two sets of everything were exactly like that.
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Post by: Bacms
Pretty similar to mine in terms of mould lines as well
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Post by: AegisGrimm
Second they actually didn't send my $3 rulebook that is completely useless even though they tricked me to buy it.
What do you mean by that? I haven;t really cracked open the 2.0 rulebook. Is there something wrong with it?
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Post by: Azazelx
It's a reference to the fact that it's essentially still unfinished, and that it will require further internet errata and so forth.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Catyrpelius wrote:
The terrain... Both sets of my terrain were pretty much perfect. Lots of detail very little mold lines. After seeing them I'm not bothered by them being glued at the factory, with the way they are packaged it actually works well. There is also a large bag of doors that go with this tray.
Srinkage... I'm not seeing it, sorry the models aren't assembled but I haven't actually assembled anything for Sedition Wars other then the lights out campaign. This is the Not Serenity Crew. The female models are a little on the thin side but not as bad as I was lead to believe.
The THI suits, not as good as I was hoping for but not really bad either. With some cleanup and paint this should come out looking pretty good.
Maybe I just got lucky and got an extremely good batch of everything? Who knows, but I'm happy with what I got. If anyone wants more pictures of something let me know.
Okay, that terrain is getting some free drinks and a foot rub. Very classy.
As for the THI suit, the artwork made it look much larger than it was, and the metal one on McVey's website was misleading due to how audacious the pricing was. (Seriously,$30 for a metal model the size of a terminator? Outrageous!) Keep in mind that Mantic had released or at least announced a dreadnaught-sized model for $20 by then, and you have to admit it's a seasonable assumption that the $15 restic exo-suit should be too large to pilot the $20 one. They should be more like brothers in size, or even Twins, if the McVey model is the Danny Devito of the pair. $15 and a handful of change could buy me an entire box of WGF plastic models that I could clean and assemble in less time and with more joy than the THI suit.
I would probably be a lot happier with the characters if I hadn't burnt myself out trying and failing to finish my Wave 1 SW minis. And that was after I decided the strain models had so much detail mishegoss that the mold lines would blend in like Marcus Brody.
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Post by: Azazelx
Got my shipping notice. Which at least means this will all be over soon. No word yet on the one I'm more interested in (Zombicide)...
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Post by: Catyrpelius
The terrain sets really are awsome, the set comes with alot of other stuff but my phone was giving me odd issues last night.
The THI suit was the only thing that I might be disappointed by, but I'm going to hold off my final judgement until I get it cleaned and assembled which I'm going to try and get done this weekend. I agree that it's smaller then I thought it was going to be but once assembled I'm pretty sure its going to be atleast as tall as a terminator. I did only buy one, so its much less of an issue for me then some I guess.
I didn't really have many problems with the few things I've cleaned so far... A sharp knife and a diamond file works wonders, it's the same process I use for super dungeon explore.
To be honest from what I read about the wave two stuff I was expecting small roughly human shaped lumps of plastic poorly glued together. What I actually got were some pretty nicely detailed models that I belive all fit in size wise. Sure their not Studio McVey LE Resin casts but at the price I never expected them to be and as far as I'm conserned I got great value for my money.
My advice to people is that if some of the stuff you got is really as bad as your describing send CMoN an email and get some replacements. I've never had any problems getting replacements from them for anything.
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Post by: cincydooley
Catyrpelius wrote:The terrain sets really are awsome, the set comes with alot of other stuff but my phone was giving me odd issues last night.
The THI suit was the only thing that I might be disappointed by, but I'm going to hold off my final judgement until I get it cleaned and assembled which I'm going to try and get done this weekend. I agree that it's smaller then I thought it was going to be but once assembled I'm pretty sure its going to be atleast as tall as a terminator. I did only buy one, so its much less of an issue for me then some I guess.
I didn't really have many problems with the few things I've cleaned so far... A sharp knife and a diamond file works wonders, it's the same process I use for super dungeon explore.
To be honest from what I read about the wave two stuff I was expecting small roughly human shaped lumps of plastic poorly glued together. What I actually got were some pretty nicely detailed models that I belive all fit in size wise. Sure their not Studio McVey LE Resin casts but at the price I never expected them to be and as far as I'm conserned I got great value for my money.
My advice to people is that if some of the stuff you got is really as bad as your describing send CMoN an email and get some replacements. I've never had any problems getting replacements from them for anything.
I'm in the exact same boat as you. I got my stuff yesterday and was wholly pleased. I'll be doing a full review with pictures this weekend, but a few points overall:
1. The shrinkage on the Not-Serenity crew has been pretty well overstated. I'm going to post some comparison photos in my comprehensive, but the only "small" figure is River, and well, she's a 16-year old girl. If we assume the Standard model is about 6'0" an Jayne, who is a bit taller, is about 6'4" then River is around a head and a half shorter, or 5'4". Which is exactly like she should be. The limbs are definitely a bit thinner on the unarmored female models...but they should be. I'm really not seeing it. If anything, the free Vokker model that everyone got may actually be a touch large. While most of the SW stuff is in the same scale as, say, Infinity, Vokker looks like he fits in more with Warmachine or even 40k with his proportions.
2. The mould lines you see in Caty's picture are pretty much the exact same as what I experienced. I know there were some flippant comments about "if Mike McVey took 45 mins to clean Barker, then for the average person it should take around 90" and, having sat next to McVey and watched him clean a model, I can tell you he's pretty slow and meticulous. It took me about 25 mins to clean and assemble Barker. I had a slight bit of warpage on the roll cage which was shockingly fixed in 35 seconds with hot water. Keegan Kor required the most cleanup for me so far, as both of his arms needed some mould line trimming.
3. The terrain pack is fantastic. It really is. It's going to work REALLY well for Infinity terrain and objectives as well, and came packaged in some really great looking packaging. I've got a shot of that that I'll have up too.
4. I guess I sort of wish the THI suits were larger, but I like the models a lot and they went together really easily. I have a sneaking suspicion if SMV had decided to put them on 40mm bases instead of 60mm bases, we'd be seeing a lot less anger over their size. Is $15 a bit high? Maybe. But I don't think grossly so.
5. My only real irritation is that the revised card set they threw in for us only includes what is in the base set. They probably mentioned that somewhere, but I don't have enough cards for all of the models I received with Biohazard.
With that in mind, for those of you that are interested in dumping stuff, here's what I'm looking for:
Another Revised Card Set
1x Bone Crabs Set
1x Vanguard Opticamo Set
30-40x Bases
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Post by: DaveC
If your in the UK/ EU and have issues with your shipping or mispacks go direct to Battlefoam the contact is Jemma and the email address is jemma@battlefoam.com (apparently CMoN are just issuing this as a response to any UK/ EU backers so best to cut out the middle man) I assume it's the same for Zombicide.
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Post by: RiTides
Catyr, it sounds like you had the right expectations, and thus were not disappointed. I agree that this is the expectation people should have had... but if Studio McVey / CMON had been honest and upfront about the quality level (if they had known) they likely would not have raised so much from the campaign. They set the expectations really high!
I was sounding off a bit about PVC and all these campaigns claiming they could deliver the moon when it hadn't been proven yet... and I did the same for Kingdom Death when he was leaning towards PVC. But luckily, that campaign raised enough funds to go full-on polystyrene! So, the sharp edges should be maintained, and the samples have looked stellar.
I just think there was too much hype and not enough information about this material that so many campaigns were rushing to produce in (and still are). CMON itself has even learned it's lesson, by planning to have Wrath of Kings made with bodies in PVC (which are more organic) and weapons in polystyrene (which can hold a sharp edge).
But when campaigns in the future are promising amazing detail in PVC, you'll know to expect something more like this.
I believe Privateer Press can get away with it, because their sculpts are more organic and have oversized detail (and are bigger, 32mm from what I can tell). But for small figures needing sharp detail (almost the very definition of Studio McVey's scifi sculpts!) it is a very poor material to use.
But I think it should really be fine for terrain, so I'm glad you are pleased with that part in particular Catyr!
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Post by: Forlorn
Catyrpelius wrote: CptJake wrote:As I commented on that thread, the terrain was what was keeping me positive about the project. I have two sets of it (hopefully) on the way. Seeing those pictures has really pissed me off.
I have two sets of the terrain coming to me...
I will say this about the McVey forums. Only a handful of people seem to have received Wave 2 with terrain yet, of those people only one of them has had a really bad experiance with it, and even then with only one peice from the kit. I get the feeling that the actual problem might be alittle overblown.
I'm also suprised by the number of positive comments about the Wave 2 stuff on their forums. It gives me some hope that the models aren't as bad as some people are making them out to be. Maybe if my stuff ever ships I'll get to see for myself.
Don't be surprised. There are people that will take a caramel covered turd and think its great but it's still a turd. Automatically Appended Next Post: Alpharius wrote:I hope that this whole debacle hasn't sunk McVey in terms of every getting the things off the ground that we'd hoped he would.
I hope this sinks him. Automatically Appended Next Post:  RiTides wrote:Catyr, it sounds like you had the right expectations, and thus were not disappointed. I agree that this is the expectation people should have had... but if Studio McVey / CMON had been honest and upfront about the quality level (if they had known) they likely would not have raised so much from the campaign. They set the expectations really high!
I was sounding off a bit about PVC and all these campaigns claiming they could deliver the moon when it hadn't been proven yet... and I did the same for Kingdom Death when he was leaning towards PVC. But luckily, that campaign raised enough funds to go full-on polystyrene! So, the sharp edges should be maintained, and the samples have looked stellar.
I just think there was too much hype and not enough information about this material that so many campaigns were rushing to produce in (and still are). CMON itself has even learned it's lesson, by planning to have Wrath of Kings made with bodies in PVC (which are more organic) and weapons in polystyrene (which can hold a sharp edge).
But when campaigns in the future are promising amazing detail in PVC, you'll know to expect something more like this.
I believe Privateer Press can get away with it, because their sculpts are more organic and have oversized detail (and are bigger, 32mm from what I can tell). But for small figures needing sharp detail (almost the very definition of Studio McVey's scifi sculpts!) it is a very poor material to use.
But I think it should really be fine for terrain, so I'm glad you are pleased with that part in particular Catyr!
Wasn't the terrain and drone made from a different material than the figures? That's why the quality is cleaner I believe.
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Post by: cincydooley
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Post by: Gomez
Was about to ask the exact same thing. Being disappointed in the guy's product is a bit different than actively hoping he fails in his industry.
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Post by: Alpharius
Schadenfreude sucks - seriously!
I hope McVey recovers from this, learns from this, and delivers something awesome next time out.
I just won't be per-ordering it though!
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Post by: cincydooley
Alpharius wrote:Schadenfreude sucks - seriously!
I hope McVey recovers from this, learns from this, and delivers something awesome next time out.
I just won't be per-ordering it though!
I think there's a lot to learn, and that's my hope as well.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Well my shipping email is in, delivery's due Monday
I'll get to see what all the fuss is about
(excited ? calm? afraid? I'm just not sure this gosh darn internet's got me all confused)
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Post by: sparkywtf
Alpharius wrote:Schadenfreude sucks - seriously!
I hope McVey recovers from this, learns from this, and delivers something awesome next time out.
I just won't be per-ordering it though!
It is almost lucky that it happened to SMV not some small first time company. McVey will be able to recover from this.
That being said, he will have to learn a few lessons from this. All companies should look at SW and KoW to see what will go wrong and try to eliminate that.
The next few releases will have to be on time and on target as far as molding goes. And don't expect most of the previous backers to put much faith into you until it is PROVEN that it can be good.
Am I mad at SMV? No, more disappointed. I still see the value in what the final product was. I still have tons of models to paint and play with. I still have a game to play (questionable rules, but there are rules at least).
That being said, SW was oversold and under delivered. I would have rather have gotten a product that was undersold and over delivered. Also don't expect me to back another SMV KS (or CMoN, not that they have much I am interested in). Even preorders are going to be a tough sell.
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Post by: CptJake
I'm not sure he did learn, at least not completely. I base that off of a note he had on their forums where he acknowledged he was not happy with the second wave stuff. Yet, they produced them and sent them to all of us.
That really bothers me.
He said:
I have to say right off the bat, that I am unhappy with the shrinkage of some of the casts - it is certainly disappointing to me, and I'm sure it is to some of you too. Unfortunately, the ones that are the worst effected are the ones that were the thinnest to start with - the ones with a more chunky design have not suffered in the same way. It seems that the process is not kind to finer designs. I don't think the miniatures are ruined - but they are not quite how I had envisioned them coming out. ... Overall I'm not as happy with Wave 2 as I had hoped to be
Now, at some point someone saw the test casts and approved them for production. That just doesn't sit right with me.
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Post by: sparkywtf
CptJake wrote:I'm not sure he did learn, at least not completely. I base that off of a note he had on their forums where he acknowledged he was not happy with the second wave stuff. Yet, they produced them and sent them to all of us.
That really bothers me.
He said:
I have to say right off the bat, that I am unhappy with the shrinkage of some of the casts - it is certainly disappointing to me, and I'm sure it is to some of you too. Unfortunately, the ones that are the worst effected are the ones that were the thinnest to start with - the ones with a more chunky design have not suffered in the same way. It seems that the process is not kind to finer designs. I don't think the miniatures are ruined - but they are not quite how I had envisioned them coming out. ... Overall I'm not as happy with Wave 2 as I had hoped to be
Now, at some point someone saw the test casts and approved them for production. That just doesn't sit right with me.
But you are forgetting that there is a middle man here. There is CMoN as the producer. We don't really know the role they had and Mike had, as that was a business agreement between them, and those details are private.
CMoN may have been the ones approving the casts, not Mike. If that is the case, shame on Mike for having it set up that way, but it is something to learn of. This is the problem when a 3rd party produces. We assume Mike has/had full control, when he doesn't.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Yep, I've mentioned it before, but I've read and heard some horror stories about how much creative control you give up when you get a contract with a publisher.
It might be that Mike said "good enough, the fans can't tell the difference" or he might have decided to pick his fights with the CMoN, or he might have needed to say there isn't time to correct it, or he might have had no control over the casting process whatsoever. Given how high the standards are with his resin line, I'd tend to assume it was not his choice, but don't know any more than the rest of you.
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Post by: sparkywtf
I would wager on he didn't have control over the casting process, and once it was caught, it was probably too late/too expensive to fix.
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Post by: CptJake
You're right, we don't know who approved the figures. I do know McVey's name is all over the packaging though.
I do know no one from CMON held a gun to his head and forced him to sign an agreement he really didn't think was in his best interest.
I don't hope he fails, but again, I'm not sure all the appropriate lessons were learned to the level they should have been. Wave 2 being a charlie foxtrot seems to indicate I'm on track,
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Post by: sparkywtf
Wave 2 is not enough time to learn the lessons from wave one though.
To see if the appropriate lessons were learned, we have to wait for what is next.
For all we know, wave 2 was released to cut the losses and just get the project done. The angry people can be dealt with after the fact, but most backers are probably at least okay with what they got.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
If you've never accidentally gotten into a bad contract, you've never been in a creative industry...
edit: that was in response to the "gun to his head" comment if that isn't clear.
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Post by: CptJake
Contracts work differently in creative industries from the rest of the world? I didn't know that. I guess I learn something new each day.
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Post by: cincydooley
sparkywtf wrote:
CMoN may have been the ones approving the casts, not Mike. If that is the case, shame on Mike for having it set up that way, but it is something to learn of. This is the problem when a 3rd party produces. We assume Mike has/had full control, when he doesn't.
The first production casts were approved by Studio McVey. "What I envisioned" is often different than what is "aceceptable" given financial restraints.
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Post by: RiTides
Well that answers that question...
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Post by: sparkywtf
Well I will eat my words on that one.
Sounds like they didn't have the money to fix the shrinkage. Which for some limited edition models, is understandable.
(I know I am going to catch from flak for that, but looking for a business stand point, you have to be reasonable)
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Post by: cincydooley
I think the best move forward for them, since any new product would include the firebrand, would be to do whatever is possible to get multip part plastic troops. If the Samaritan armor was in multi part plastic, it would be incredibly popular.
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Post by: AlexHolker
 Gomez wrote:
Was about to ask the exact same thing. Being disappointed in the guy's product is a bit different than actively hoping he fails in his industry.
Because we don't want Sedition Wars-style debacles to be a viable business strategy. We want other manufacturers to think, "We better not foist a crappy product on our paying customers or we will burn, just like Studio McVey". We want screwing over your customers by subcontracting to incompetents to hurt.
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Post by: cincydooley
Aside from the reputational damage it's already done?
Or the customers that definitely won't Kickstart or pre order a new product without seeing it first?
If you think folks haven't already learned a great deal from this project, you're daft.
Besides, no one was saying it is a viable business strategy. Not a single person
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Post by: warboss
Agreed. While I'm really glad I chickened out on this and Mantic's KOW at the last minute, even if I hadn't I wouldn't be screaming to figurately "burn the witch!". I'd reserve that level of rhetoric for a company that repeatedly does something disappointing like this and doesn't learn from their own lessons or if the company simple didn't deliver substantially on their promise ("sorry.. I know we promised you 100 different minis but we only could make 50... oops!").
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Post by: Piston Honda
cincydooley wrote:Aside from the reputational damage it's already done?
Or the customers that definitely won't Kickstart or pre order a new product without seeing it first?
If you think folks haven't already learned a great deal from this project, you're daft.
Besides, no one was saying it is a viable business strategy. Not a single person
More than likely I will not be kickstarting another CMON sponsored product. Only way to really retaliate against CMON is by not giving money to them, only one person understand thousands will continue to lineup and give 'em the old "Shut up and take my money" attitude. David Doust won't mind taking it...
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Post by: warboss
And that is a completely reasonable response to being disappointed with this whole KS endeavor. Wishing for the multiple companies involved in it to fail completely is a bit much.
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Post by: Piston Honda
 warboss wrote:And that is a completely reasonable response to being disappointed with this whole KS endeavor. Wishing for the multiple companies involved in it to fail completely is a bit much.
I wish for no companies to fail.
But I will put my money on a product I like or on a new company with a reputation. Sure I might take a bit of a risk, such as red republic games, but at least I knew what artists they had lined up.Still a risk.
CMON's reputation, to me, is damaged.
Wanting to buy product based on quality and or expectations is different than wanting them to fail. I would think others would follow this formula as well. If not than CMON will think it is ok if they deliver a sub par product. If buyers react to a poor quality product than CMON and crew will change or they will fail because of cutting corner.
MIERCE miniatures is a company I knew delivers a great quality product, but didn't trust them on past events. Since he delivered product promised on KS, I do regret not kick starting. However, that is how kicstarter and any product outside of KS works.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
CptJake wrote:Contracts work differently in creative industries from the rest of the world? I didn't know that. I guess I learn something new each day.
I have no idea if you're being sarcastic or not.
To elaborate- you will always be giving up a lot of autonomy in a creative field when working with a publisher to make something (vs. sometimes publishers picking up finished products), even if you're a pretty big name. The question is how much you'll need to fight them and how much you're capable of fighting them. The latter is a matter of personality and reputation, the former is something you can't necessarily prepare for, and depending on the mix, you'll give up anywhere from superficial stuff to complete control of a project (to the point where a publisher can take it from you if they don't like what you're doing and you signed a bad contradt).
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Post by: cincydooley
 Piston Honda wrote: warboss wrote:And that is a completely reasonable response to being disappointed with this whole KS endeavor. Wishing for the multiple companies involved in it to fail completely is a bit much.
I wish for no companies to fail.
But I will put my money on a product I like or on a new company with a reputation. Sure I might take a bit of a risk, such as red republic games, but at least I knew what artists they had lined up.Still a risk.
CMON's reputation, to me, is damaged.
Wanting to buy product based on quality and or expectations is different than wanting them to fail. I would think others would follow this formula as well. If not than CMON will think it is ok if they deliver a sub par product. If buyers react to a poor quality product than CMON and crew will change or they will fail because of cutting corner.
MIERCE miniatures is a company I knew delivers a great quality product, but didn't trust them on past events. Since he delivered product promised on KS, I do regret not kick starting. However, that is how kicstarter and any product outside of KS works.
So what did the on time delivery of Zombicide S1 do for you I terms of CMoNs reputation? Or how about the early delivery of their only 100% in house KS so far, Guilds of Cadwallon? Or the on time delivery of Zombicide S2?
Honestly, I think there needs to be a point where people begin to look objectively at the projects and the fact that CMoN is merely a publisher and not the designer, and realize that if the designers make poor decisions or don't meet deadlines, there's very little the publisher can do if they're unwilling to throw the design teams under the bus.
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Post by: Taarnak
My wave 2 should be here on Tuesday the 1st. Looking forward to seeing it finally. Sorta...
Do we have a trades thread up for this stuff yet? I'll have a few extras, and didn't get the Barker in Aphid suit for some reason.
~Eric
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Post by: Bolognesus
Isn't barker in aphid suit one of the freebies? You should get at least one from a biohazard pledge IIRC.
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Post by: ephrael
 Taarnak wrote:My wave 2 should be here on Tuesday the 1st. Looking forward to seeing it finally. Sorta...
Do we have a trades thread up for this stuff yet? I'll have a few extras, and didn't get the Barker in Aphid suit for some reason.
~Eric
If you have extras that you want to trade or sell, send me a pm. I missed this kickstarter and there are some minis from this that I'm looking for.
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Post by: Piston Honda
cincydooley wrote:
So what did the on time delivery of Zombicide S1 do for you I terms of CMoNs reputation?
That was great.
But what about throwing the Soda Pop backers under the Bus? I don't mind waiting a few months for a company to deliver a quality product, but CMON royally screwed RK backers.
Or how about the early delivery of their only 100% in house KS so far, Guilds of Cadwallon? Or the on time delivery of Zombicide S2?
GoC was garbage. Opinion, I know. I have yet to receive my copy of ZS2.
Not sure how a delivery time frame compensates for another product that was botched.
Honestly, I think there needs to be a point where people begin to look objectively at the projects and the fact that CMoN is merely a publisher and not the designer, and realize that if the designers make poor decisions or don't meet deadlines, there's very little the publisher can do if they're unwilling to throw the design teams under the bus.
Objectively?
CMON/SM got a million dollars to produce a game.
They delivered what we got. A sub par product. Their a good aspects about the game and product but should have been far better.
Most of the issues with the game I have are with the printing and manufacturing of the game, not the design. A lot of the blame I put on CMON.
Ultimately I wish Mike McVey would have played small ball with the Sedition Wars property.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I received wave 2 today. Not sure if everything is in the box.
My first impressions of the terrain is fantastic. The doors and crates/contains are awesome.
Interested in buy another 2 packs of the terrain. The doors are thick and durable, could be used easily for making scifi buildings if you trim them with a band saw or scroll saw.
Glad they didn't go with resin for the terrain pack as originally thought to be made of by Mike during the kickstarter comments. Think the doors would easily snap.
Would love to buy a big bag of the containers as they are THAT cool and would love to have a stock pile of them to make it look like a ammo dump or military storage.
Have not taken a good look all all the minis... yet. In the middle of cooking but off hand their seems to be a mix on this batch of miniatures. Wave 1 have had roast beef thick mold line on them. This batch varies from no where near as bad to just as bad.
Only one part is warped so far and it is the sword on the Gnosis suit. Perhaps I am use to Infinity and Anima miniatures, but the rather thin models don't bother me. Though I have never really been a fan of heroic scale, it does work for some models from time to time, but not my brand of root beer.
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Post by: Gomez
Piston Honda wrote:
Ultimately I wish Mike McVey would have played small ball with the Sedition Wars property.
There it is - I agree with this 100%. IMO less money would have meant a lower profile, higher quality game that satisfied fewer people but a much higher percentage than SW actually did.
I'd love to buy Mike a few beers at the pub to hear his honest take on how the whole thing went down.
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Post by: cincydooley
Piston Honda wrote:
But what about throwing the Soda Pop backers under the Bus? I don't mind waiting a few months for a company to deliver a quality product, but CMON royally screwed RK backers.
How did CMoN "throw soda pop backers under the bus"? Please, elaborate. The tardiness of the Relic Knights KS is on Soda pop, not CMoN.
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Post by: Piston Honda
cincydooley wrote: Piston Honda wrote:
But what about throwing the Soda Pop backers under the Bus? I don't mind waiting a few months for a company to deliver a quality product, but CMON royally screwed RK backers.
How did CMoN "throw soda pop backers under the bus"? Please, elaborate. The tardiness of the Relic Knights KS is on Soda pop, not CMoN.
CMON should have given backers the real reason why everything was delayed, CMON decided it was ok to continue to endorse Soda Pop working on another project before completing another promised product. Does CMON deserve the blame for the delay? Probably not, unless CMON is handling manufacturing of the Robotech minis (which I have told they are not), but they have made it clear running a business like a drunken shop keep is OK, much how they ran Sedition Wars.
2 peas in a pod.
CMON basically gave other companies the OK to do the same thing.
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Post by: cincydooley
Just sent you a PM Piston. A lot of the facts regarding Relic knights haven't been publicly disclosed.
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Post by: Piston Honda
cincydooley wrote:Just sent you a PM Piston. A lot of the facts regarding Relic knights haven't been publicly disclosed.
I figured as much.
Gratitude.
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Post by: Alpharius
Can I get that info PM too?
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Post by: Azazelx
RiTides wrote:Catyr, it sounds like you had the right expectations, and thus were not disappointed. I agree that this is the expectation people should have had... but if Studio McVey / CMON had been honest and upfront about the quality level (if they had known) they likely would not have raised so much from the campaign. They set the expectations really high!
Let's remember the context, though. We've got Mike McVey promising awesome models and really doing more hyping of the quality than anything else (I should point out, yet again, that I wasn't expecting LE resin quality), Kickstarter is relatively new to many of us. It's also well before a 6-12 month delay on every Kickstarter was just expected by us all. The "right" expectations of the time were those set by the producers. Maybe now that we're all a year older and more cynical that it's the expectation we "should" have with pretty much everything moving forward, but at the time? No.
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Post by: Piston Honda
We should prevent the spread herpes
Probably moot to do this since people have already received theirs or will be in the next few days.
The doors have really great recessed lines that will be easy to fill in with inks, shades or paint for shadows. Also makes it that much easier to create various lighting effects on certain part of the doors.
Sorry for the poor images
Sounds odd getting excited over doors, but these are great and get a A+
I could see these being popular with Tyranid players or terrain.
The cargo is probably my favorite aspect of all this. Great for any scifi game, quick easy terrain for Infinity and Mercs. Best part about them is the have little ball joints that all you to stack them fairly high without them falling like a Jenga game. gives you a few options to build you battle field setup.
Resin VS the Restic
Keep in mind it is not exactly fair to compare the qualities of the 2 and not consider the price point. Overall for the price and quantity you got SedWars was a good deal. The biggest issue is the mold lines, be it the amount or how difficult they are to remove, made this project the least fun of any project I have done. I personally would have gone for a lower count of models and get them printed in the fashion Malifaux is doing. Quality over quantity, that's my game.
A bit of shrinkage. This material is not to kind to bulky pieces. When comparing resin to restic counterparts, smaller models like Akosha do not show any shrinkage. But beefy models should some considerable amount of shrinkage, a few mm.
didn't post everything, if you want to see something in particular, I can post it.
Saw the first few minutes of the DVD, great video quality.
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Post by: Azazelx
Let's change that one to partial at best, shall we? October is the day after tomorrow and a great many of us haven't even got a shipping note yet, let alone arrival. Aren't all the Wave 1 parcels missing a bunch of stuff as well? (Necessitating a Wave 1.5?)
cincydooley wrote:Just sent you a PM Piston. A lot of the facts regarding Relic knights haven't been publicly disclosed.
I'd be interested in seeing this as well, actually.
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Post by: cincydooley
One of the things that struck me was how different the levels of flash were per model. Some had quite a bit, some had barely any I could find. Automatically Appended Next Post: Azazelx wrote:
Let's change that one to partial at best, shall we? October is the day after tomorrow and a great many of us haven't even got a shipping note yet, let alone arrival. Aren't all the Wave 1 parcels missing a bunch of stuff as well? (Necessitating a Wave 1.5?)
.
I think, and don't quote me here, that they eliminated 1.5 and held off shipping wave 1 because all the stuff did come in, or something like that.
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Post by: Azazelx
Thanks for the photos, Piston Honda. Hardly moot, as mine (and I'm sure any other overseas backers) will probably be at least another 2 weeks away from seeing their W2 stuff yet.
Looks like the proportions on those THI suits suffers just as much from Terminator-itis, though.
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Post by: Piston Honda
A h, shoot.
Forgot this
Kara's Gnosis suit in restic compared to the resin Grist, there are som slight difference to them also some minor aesthetic similarities.
there is a significant difference in size, but not sure if it is due to shrinkage or if they are sculpted to be 2 different classes of armor? Obvious there is shrinkage, but not sure if the extra size difference is due to being different armor.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I really hope that's not shrinkage as if it it it's terrible
I'll belive the armour is custom sized to each vanguard and Grist is just a bigger dude (or it's a different Mk of armour)
I wonder how the THI's compare to the metal version ?
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Post by: Taarnak
Bolognesus wrote:Isn't barker in aphid suit one of the freebies? You should get at least one from a biohazard pledge IIRC.
I honestly don't remember. I will go digging later today to see. Meantime: Anyone know off hand if this is true?
ephrael wrote: Taarnak wrote:My wave 2 should be here on Tuesday the 1st. Looking forward to seeing it finally. Sorta...
Do we have a trades thread up for this stuff yet? I'll have a few extras, and didn't get the Barker in Aphid suit for some reason.
~Eric
If you have extras that you want to trade or sell, send me a pm. I missed this kickstarter and there are some minis from this that I'm looking for.
As soon as I get it and inventory it I'll shoot you a PM.
~Eric
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Post by: Hulksmash
Yeah, you should have gotten and Aphid Barker with each Biohazard.
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Post by: ephrael
Taarnak wrote:Bolognesus wrote:Isn't barker in aphid suit one of the freebies? You should get at least one from a biohazard pledge IIRC.
I honestly don't remember. I will go digging later today to see. Meantime: Anyone know off hand if this is true?
ephrael wrote: Taarnak wrote:My wave 2 should be here on Tuesday the 1st. Looking forward to seeing it finally. Sorta...
Do we have a trades thread up for this stuff yet? I'll have a few extras, and didn't get the Barker in Aphid suit for some reason.
~Eric
If you have extras that you want to trade or sell, send me a pm. I missed this kickstarter and there are some minis from this that I'm looking for.
As soon as I get it and inventory it I'll shoot you a PM.
~Eric
Thank you Eric, I sent you a pm so that you and I can discuss a deal at your convenience. I really appreciate your reply to my request.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Okay, I've been a fairly vocal defender of SMV, finally got my second wave... reactions with some pretty mixed feelings.
-Terrain: bulky but not heavy, mostly very nice. No assembly problems though I still wish I could have put them together myself. The box suggests that the crates and barricades are actually meant to have special rules, but I've never heard amy mention of 1x1 obstructions or 2x1 cover. The corpses were a little small and lame, but over all the set was very nice. I'd recommend this to anyone who wanted some sci-fi terrain as even the doors can decently stand alone as barriers. I wish they'd used this material for the regular models.
-Drones: kind of dorky, but cute and nicely made. My only complaint is the lack of bases and (again) why they didn't use the harder plastic elsewhere
-Crabs: these things are huge (much bigger than many of the human models) and have some really thick mold lines on some very fiddly details. Also, I don't really like the concept- they feel early 90's. Not a fain.
-Niven, Ramirez, Ridley (strain version), Barker, Kara, Vokker, Keegan, Vade: all fine to good. If they came with the core game, I probably wouldn't have looked twice at their scale or quality. They fit right in.
-Ridley (human), Jade, (not) Jayne/Mal/Zoe, Akosha: a little disappointingly small/thin, particularly because they're heroes and you don't really want them tiny, but still within reason. The medium doesn't suit them well, but if they were in a different game I probably wouldn't have complained. Not going to throw a fit because they're not perfect.
-(not) River, Hexen: tiny little blobs. River is about the same size as a Reaver's gun. They're very disappointing. When on a timetable (and running late), you can't necessarily be a perfectionist so I'm fine with the above "not great" list not getting sent back, but I found these three models looked like they didn't belong in the game. Hexen is a little skeleton, and River looks like she's actually a different scale- if she were bulkier, she might pass as short, but the fact that she's also so thin really makes her look like she's not part of the same line. These were both big disappointments, and I think they should have never been given the go-ahead.
I didn't get a THI and haven't cracked open the DVD so can't comment on those...
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Post by: CptJake
spiralingcadaver wrote: O
-Ridley (human), Jade, (not) Jayne/Mal/Zoe, Akosha: a little disappointingly small/thin, particularly because they're heroes and you don't really want them tiny, but still within reason. The medium doesn't suit them well, but if they were in a different game I probably wouldn't have complained. Not going to throw a fit because they're not perfect.
Just out of curiosity, how does the new Akosha scale against her Wave 1 counterpart. I know the poses are very different but arm length and thickness, head and foot size should give an indication as to how close they are, right?
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
CptJake wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote: O
-Ridley (human), Jade, (not) Jayne/Mal/Zoe, Akosha: a little disappointingly small/thin, particularly because they're heroes and you don't really want them tiny, but still within reason. The medium doesn't suit them well, but if they were in a different game I probably wouldn't have complained. Not going to throw a fit because they're not perfect.
Just out of curiosity, how does the new Akosha scale against her Wave 1 counterpart. I know the poses are very different but arm length and thickness, head and foot size should give an indication as to how close they are, right?
Her legs are similar, a little thinner with higher knees. Her arms are smaller (shorter and smaller hands, slightly thinner), her torso and head are definitely narrower. She's a similar height. Definitely not that close...
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Post by: Andrew1975
Got my stuff. You know, I think people make too much of the miniatures. They are not going to win any awards, but for the most part they are pretty good, especially for the price. What makes me regret getting into this kickstarter is that the game doesn't work! The rules need work and now they didn't give me enough cards for my bio-hazard extras.
Oh and the scenery is really nice, mine came preassebled but with no mishaps.
Going to watch the video.
Now I have to go through everything and send my requests for replacements. I know there are a few things missing from my original sets, but now I have to go over these with a fine toothed comb.
Got to say I'm dissapointed with the project in general, but the miniatures themselves are fine for what I paid. Especially now that I've seen what GW is charging for their new Dark Elves. HOLY GAK!
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Post by: Azazelx
 Andrew1975 wrote:Got my stuff. You know, I think people make too much of the miniatures. They are not going to win any awards, but for the most part they are pretty good, especially for the price.
I'm willing to not bitch too much about the minis in the core set, due to the price, but the extra add-ons weren't cheap, and we were led to believe they'd be a lot better than they appear to be. When SC has a problem with them, you know there's a solid problem.
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Post by: CptJake
Azazelx wrote: Andrew1975 wrote:Got my stuff. You know, I think people make too much of the miniatures. They are not going to win any awards, but for the most part they are pretty good, especially for the price.
I'm willing to not bitch too much about the minis in the core set, due to the price, but the extra add-ons weren't cheap, and we were led to believe they'd be a lot better than they appear to be. When SC has a problem with them, you know there's a solid problem.
Mike McVey expressed disappointment with how the wave 2 stuff came out. If the guy selling the product admits it didn't turn out as intended I don't think customers should be admonished for being disappointed as well.
I think some of the excuse making for the product, taken in light of the fact that the creator expressed disappointment in the product, is getting silly.
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Post by: Andrew1975
CptJake wrote: Azazelx wrote: Andrew1975 wrote:Got my stuff. You know, I think people make too much of the miniatures. They are not going to win any awards, but for the most part they are pretty good, especially for the price.
I'm willing to not bitch too much about the minis in the core set, due to the price, but the extra add-ons weren't cheap, and we were led to believe they'd be a lot better than they appear to be. When SC has a problem with them, you know there's a solid problem.
Mike McVey expressed disappointment with how the wave 2 stuff came out. If the guy selling the product admits it didn't turn out as intended I don't think customers should be admonished for being disappointed as well.
I think some of the excuse making for the product, taken in light of the fact that the creator expressed disappointment in the product, is getting silly.
Whoow hold on there sparky. I'm not making excuses for the product. I've said I was dissapointed with the product, just not so much with the miniatures for the most part, especially for the price when I look at it as a whole. Yes they were promised to be the "best miniatures ever" which is plain false and aggravating especially considering that I got basically 2 of everything available including the limited sets. Now even though they were advertising it as such, I never really expected McVey quality resin for $1.00 (on average) a miniature.
It was not the outright WIN it was supposed to be. But I got like 250 (for the most part good, interesting) miniatures, some nice scenery and maps for somewhere around $300. Not too shabby.......if only the game were playable (sigh)
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Heh, thanks for the confidence Azelex
Also, Andrew brought up the part I forgot to respond to- the rules.
The Visitor rule is unnecessary in a light weight skirmish game- it's not like the game is so finely tuned that the presence of some of the characters (seems somewhat arbitrary) would break the prefect balance of the tournament scene.
The Infectious rule is also unnecessary- in a game where maps, forces, and sometimes win conditions are based on your army size, it leads to all sorts of weird problems, and I haven't been able to figure out how it could be worth the trouble of making a backwards rule.
The special infected models are never going to see play: I've played the game quite a lot, and it's always in the vanguard player's best interest to kill infection 3 pieces, and there are almost no circumstances when you'll let a model reach infection 4 (and it'll die to friendly fire anyways).
The cards seem to have had little to no playtesting put in: several are basically worse and more expensive versions of existing models; the alternate resin Kara clearly has not been updated since last edition; there is still no card for the promised Cthonian Drone (not that I'm crying over not having another presumably cheaper walking pile of armor)
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Post by: CptJake
No solo rules yet either.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Yep, that's also annoying, but I consider it less frustrating than things that were promised as printed media (in part because of the money involved: it's going to probably be a lot harder to get correct copies of anything).
As a playtester (no, I had nothing to do with testing 2nd edition rules or these cards), I'll say we haven't touched solo rules: fixing core rules and Outbreak have been declared the priority right now, so I believe it's fair to say you should expect those and Quarantine to still be a while.
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Post by: Alpharius
At the end of the day, I got some nice (and expensive) custom bases out of this one...
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Post by: Hulksmash
The regular models are excellent as well. And they paint up extremely well. Some of the larger models are bit of a pain to get together but the basic grunts are awesome.
And a ton of custom bases. Pretty sure the custom bases alone are actually worth what I spent per biohazard were I to purchase similar resin ones.
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Post by: RiTides
Piston Honda wrote:The doors have really great recessed lines that will be easy to fill in with inks, shades or paint for shadows. Also makes it that much easier to create various lighting effects on certain part of the doors.
Sorry for the poor images
Sounds odd getting excited over doors, but these are great and get a A+
I could see these being popular with Tyranid players or terrain.
The cargo is probably my favorite aspect of all this. Great for any scifi game, quick easy terrain for Infinity and Mercs. Best part about them is the have little ball joints that all you to stack them fairly high without them falling like a Jenga game. gives you a few options to build you battle field setup.
Resin VS the Restic
Keep in mind it is not exactly fair to compare the qualities of the 2 and not consider the price point. Overall for the price and quantity you got SedWars was a good deal. The biggest issue is the mold lines, be it the amount or how difficult they are to remove, made this project the least fun of any project I have done. I personally would have gone for a lower count of models and get them printed in the fashion Malifaux is doing. Quality over quantity, that's my game.
A bit of shrinkage. This material is not to kind to bulky pieces. When comparing resin to restic counterparts, smaller models like Akosha do not show any shrinkage. But beefy models should some considerable amount of shrinkage, a few mm.
didn't post everything, if you want to see something in particular, I can post it.
Saw the first few minutes of the DVD, great video quality.
This was a fantastic post, thanks! Those doors do look really good, glad the terrain turned out okay
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Well seems I got some extra Zombicide figs from my add on characters. 
Really. I don't care who's at fault at this point, that will be the last thing I ever buy from McVey or CMON on Kickstarter.
edit - to really ram it home how bad it is, just going through my extras bag... and due to the mix up the 1st wave Kara was held back in the EU so it also came today. Putting her next to the trash they sent in the second wave really shows how fething awful it is. 
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Post by: RiTides
Do you have pics, MDS? I'm liking the terrain, but as you say it seems a lot of the wave 2 characters in particular don't pass muster for most folks.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
I actually thought the box contents painted up quite well once you clean off those horrible mold lines- not a 1:1 comparison since the helmeted resin one is the alt sculpt, but pretty close to the same model: the torso and legs are the same (and the sword arm is very close to the same sculpt), and other than very slight rounding they look very close
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Post by: Bolognesus
Nice. Your work?
And yes, clean them well, spray thinly, and make sure to paint with care and there's a surprising amount of detail in the restics.
"hard" armour edges aren't as hard as they'd be in resin but they paint up pretty well, both to manual highlights and drybrushing.
Organics are ideal for this material anyway so no issue there.
Biggest issue I had was cleaning god-awfully annoying mold lines off the strain mooks, and the (lack of) sculpted detail in the faces everywhere. (I'm used to painting overdetailed flesh though - I'm horrible at flesh tones, lol)
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Yeah, thanks.
Agreed, it keeps detail well but doesn't do crisp worth a damn.
Also, yes, I hate cleaning the mold lines.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Y/W
Do you really have issues with painting 'crisp' edges, though? I thought it'd be bad but it turned out not to be much of a problem to get a decent look out of it. I generally feel it's sharp enough to take a crisp highlight but yeah, other materials do work better for hard edges.
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Post by: DiabolicAl
Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Well seems I got some extra Zombicide figs from my add on characters.
Really. I don't care who's at fault at this point, that will be the last thing I ever buy from McVey or CMON on Kickstarter.
edit - to really ram it home how bad it is, just going through my extras bag... and due to the mix up the 1st wave Kara was held back in the EU so it also came today. Putting her next to the trash they sent in the second wave really shows how fething awful it is.
Although i thought some of the stuff was alright (poor for McVey but excellent for a boardgame) comparing it to the resin Kara did make me think there was a massive missed opportunity.
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
RiTides wrote:Do you have pics, MDS? I'm liking the terrain, but as you say it seems a lot of the wave 2 characters in particular don't pass muster for most folks.
Aye, just put a load of the 2nd wave specials/stretch characters out alongside the Kara limited, considering these are meant for the same game, its a total fail.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Bolgnesus, no, I don't have trouble painting it, but I don't think I should need to- you can freehand anything with enough patience, but that doesn't mean the original model is worth it...
MDS, I'm not sure that's a very appropriate photo to compare with: Kara's still got her base tab so looks huge (not that the models aren't undersized, but it exaggerates the problem) and restic looks terrible unpainted- I'm not sure what's wrong with the material but it always looks less detailed unpainted than even primed. I think it has to do with it being just slightly translucent...
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
It's not the height its the overall scale, they are way too small mass wise, it obvious on a glance, thus useless to me. They are literally on scale with the Zombicide figs.
Although river breaks that with height as well. Just awful.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Agreed on both of those counts- yean, they are too small and River looks incredibly out of scale regardless.
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Post by: DiabolicAl
I noticed the size discrepancy as well, but figured it was just because Samaritans are chunky
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
That's where I was leaning when I saw photos, but in person a it's pretty huge discrepancy on some. Some can live with it, but that was pretty disappointing for me, esp. since some have pretty nice masters.
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Post by: Breotan
I got my box today. Seems like a lot of people in the US are getting their stuff this week. I'll have to go back and check to make sure I have everything.
Anyone check out the painting DVD yet?
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Post by: ephrael
Breotan wrote:I got my box today. Seems like a lot of people in the US are getting their stuff this week. I'll have to go back and check to make sure I have everything.
Anyone check out the painting DVD yet?
I'm hoping that the Zombicide boxes are close behind. Please let us know what you think of the painting DVD as well. I was going to purchase one if it seemed worth it. And remember I'm interested in the KS exclusive minis if anyone is looking to sell theirs. Send me a pm.
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Post by: Breotan
One more question. Are the cards sent in Wave 2 replacements or additional?
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Post by: Andrew1975
I thought the DVD was ok. It definitely would have been nice to have when I first started painting. You get so much more out of the video than you get from pictures. That being said it's pretty basic, McVey says right in the beginning that he is only painting to a table ready level, so no really advanced techniques. For the early painters though this could bring you to table ready pretty quickly.
One more question. Are the cards sent in Wave 2 replacements or additional?
Yeah, well. They were supposed to be replacements with fixed wording and stats for the revised rules. However like much of the rules parts of this game, these new cards already have problems. Also they did not give you enough of them to match up with the biohazard level pledges.  Not that it matters, the way the rules are written you will NEVER use all the miniatures anyway.
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Post by: TheSecretSquig
Anyone have an email address for CMON complaints? I tried through the Kickstarter emailing them, but have had no response. From my Wave2 I'm missing a Jada figure, Calamity Crew, and I've a badly assembled turret which means its pointing to the floor and very wonky!
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
support@coolminiornot.com
Worked for me. Be advised that they will ask you for a photo...of your missing pieces.
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Post by: warboss
BobtheInquisitor wrote:support@coolminiornot.com
Worked for me. Be advised that they will ask you for a photo...of your missing pieces.
LOL, it would be very difficult to avoid sending them a very sarcastic photo of an empty tabletop but that likley would remove the little sympathy they likely have for replacing the missing pieces.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I think it's some kind of anti-scammer technique that just comes across as a hassle. I told them what I was missing and I got tweo responses. The first response was basically, "Sure! What's your address?" The second email was all, "I'm going to need to see a photo." So I sent them a photo of what I actually got in the box.
To be fair, I suppose it could just be that they want to be able to know which pieces not to send me. With the PP "we're a big boy company, honest" customer service page, I had to send them photos, too, and they still got it wrong.
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Post by: Breotan
Wyrd asks for photos when you get the wrong sprue in your box. Not sure what this accomplishes as you can fake stuff easily enough, I suppose, but it seems fairly standard these days.
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Post by: TheSecretSquig
Sure I can send them a picture of missing models?!?!!?
I can also send a picture of the wonky turret due to it being badly assembled.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Well I got my stuff this morning and snapped some pics for those who are interested.
Now I didn't bother getting any shots of the figures as I think they have been covered pretty well on this thread but we seem to be lacking terrain so I figure I might as well do it!
First off let me say this, the terrain is AMAZING. Great details, plenty of variety and more doors than I have in my own house.
Okay, here are said doors plus all the various consoles with some figs for scale.. Please note that all of these pictures are prior to any cleanup.
Next up are the barricades and crates. My only complaint about the barricades is that they only go up to the hips of the troopers, not much protection there.
Some drone mayhem. (Note, mini drones didn't come with bases)
Any ideas why there drones are blue plastic? All I can say is that this was what I was expecting all the models to be like, no mold lines and easy push-fit as is common for a board game.
Next up, the Strain terrain (huh, that rhymes!) Seeing as I am going to use it for Tyranid stuff I included some existing 'nid stuff for comparison.
Aaand finally a shot of all the sci-fi stuff that you get in the box. I am going to be using it all in conjunction with the Mantic Dreadzone terrain to make some seriously cool looking battle boards. (And yes, there are 36 individual doors to save you all the counting..)
On the subject of the figures I have to say that the scaling IS a problem, the females faces have become tiny compared to the troopers and I'm glad I only picked up one of the exo-suits rather than three.
Overall though that terrain set was well worth the money I spent and has actually made this whole ks an enjoyable experience again. For those worrying about the pre-assembled nonsense everything I received was put together perfectly with the teensy exception of a superglue fingerprint on one of the computers, not the end of the world right?
So there we are, my terrain review. Sorry for the sub-par photos, Dakka fuzzed them up so there was not much I could do about it..
Cain
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Post by: CptJake
Great pictures. Thanks.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Does anyone know when the terrain hits retail? And the drones? (My son LOVES the drones.)
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Post by: warboss
The terrain looks nice especially when posed with a few figures and not just alone in a close up.
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Post by: rigeld2
Now I'm sad I skipped on the terrain pack.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Glad you like the pictures folks! If you need any other comparison pictures of anything feel free to ask. I am off to class now though and won't be back until tonight (astronomy, wohoo!).
I also forgot to take a picture of the casualties, three male and three female though there is only one pose for each.
Nice details actually although the woman appears not to have a face. Good for decorating larger bases perhaps?
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Post by: Andrew1975
I just wish they had not glues the crates closed. Would have been nice to be able to model them open. I'm sure I can get them open though with some effort.
I wonder what the process was for making the terrain?I'm confused as it seams like hard polly plastic, but there are some undercuts on some of the single piece models that I can't figure out how they would have done with injection molding.
The drones are hard plastic from injection molds, very rudimentary and lacking in much detail. Not much time spent on those in the cad program.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Some of the big pieces are 3-4 part molds, which might account for it. There were also some fairly cleverly built 2-part pieces.
The drones look just about like the sketches- they're not very detailed but I'm fine with that: they look pretty appropriate and in the same style as Hurley
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Post by: AegisGrimm
Here's my largest gripe with the game (other than the mold line cleanup of restic). Does anyone have trouble getting their models to make strong lasting glue joins with their bases? Seems to me that texture and tiny little feet don't mix well, and it's even more ludicrous on the new shrunken stuff.
Wouldn't it have been so much stronger to have every base have a hole, and a single foot on each model with a peg that could be glued in the hole? I guess it's that after nearly two decades of slottabases (or hard plastic + cement) I find the whole thing far too fragile for gaming pieces. It still would have kept the great textured bases.
You could even keep the under-base tokens, by only engineering the pegs to be the length of the thickness of the base-top.
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Post by: Andrew1975
AegisGrimm wrote:Here's my largest gripe with the game (other than the mold line cleanup of restic). Does anyone have trouble getting their models to make strong lasting glue joins with their bases? Seems to me that texture and tiny little feet don't mix well, and it's even more ludicrous on the new shrunken stuff.
Wouldn't it have been so much stronger to have every base have a hole, and a single foot on each model with a peg that could be glued in the hole? I guess it's that after nearly two decades of slottabases (or hard plastic + cement) I find the whole thing far too fragile for gaming pieces. It still would have kept the great textured bases.
You could even keep the under-base tokens, by only engineering the pegs to be the length of the thickness of the base-top.
Eh, I just roughed up everything with some fine sandpaper, superglue is holding great.If it becomes a deal I can always pin them. Most scenic bases come like this.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
I'm with Aegis- painted Hexen and she popped off her base 3 times between start to varnish and is too small to pin. A few of them could have really used a peg. People who didn't want/need it could cut it off, while those who wanted it could have left it.
On the bright side, all painted up, Hexen actually looked close enough in scale that I'm less aggravated about that part (though she's still tiny and skinny)
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Post by: Fenriswulf
Received my Wave 2 today here in Australia. Love the doors and a lot of the scenery elements. The figures do leave a bit to be desired.
I am now wondering what I can use the miniatures for, since the game itself seems to be unfinished. What would be a good proxy for them in Infinity?
The scenery elements will help make some nice terrain for Infinity, so that's good. I am hoping I can pull out a win for the game itself though. But the way it's sounding from other peoples reports...
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Post by: Bolognesus
...Vanguard infantry and mini-drones make for good enough PanO auxilia - Neoterra sectorial would get you quite a way.
I'm already using the doc, and as soon as wave two comes in here the engineer, as their respective PanO equivalents regularly; if you **really** wanted the hurleys could qualify as remotes but they're a bit too big for that so you're kind of handicapping yourself (and don't forget to put them on 40 instead of 50mm!)
Akosha will work nicely enough as a Nisse, if you really wanted barker could pass for some HI (reaaaally tough muscles...  but it's clear enough by size).
Throw in a single fusilier and a Swiss Guard with missile launcher (if you're above abusing barker that badly) and it's exactly what I just played, actually
From what I hear, here and there, the "big" models aren't all that, like, actually big? So perhaps they could qualify as bulky HI; alternatively there's always the option of putting one of them on a somewhat higher scenic base (to equal model bulk, for LoS purposes!) and counting it as a TAG of your choosing.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Most of the big models can actually fit comfortably on a 40mm base and actually look better on them, SMV just didn't make a plastic one (presumably because the board is done on 1" grids)
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Post by: RiTides
Is the terrain for sale at retail yet, or will it be soon?
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
The terrain, THI suits, Crabs, and Drones are supposed to eventually be sold generally; terrain is already packaged for sale (in a box with advertising etc); some of the other stuff not listed as LE is supposed to be available at conventions; no dates on any of it.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
If I were McVey, I'd be desperate to get that terrain on the shelves.
If I were CMON, I'd hold it back for as long as it takes until McVey crumbles from the strain of debt and signs over his company and all its assets, Tony Reidy-style.
I wonder which will happen.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
I don't think they're in debt- that's what the kickstarter and publisher are there to protect them from. They're still making LE resins on their own... about the only thing that I'd expect could crush them is if they don't protect themselves similarly for future expansions and said expansions don't do well.
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Post by: RiTides
spiralingcadaver wrote:The terrain, THI suits, Crabs, and Drones are supposed to eventually be sold generally; terrain is already packaged for sale (in a box with advertising etc); some of the other stuff not listed as LE is supposed to be available at conventions; no dates on any of it.
Got it... I think that terrain will be extremely popular, they should definitely put it out for general sale.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
 Bolognesus wrote:...Vanguard infantry and mini-drones make for good enough PanO auxilia - Neoterra sectorial would get you quite a way.
I'm already using the doc, and as soon as wave two comes in here the engineer, as their respective PanO equivalents regularly; if you **really** wanted the hurleys could qualify as remotes but they're a bit too big for that so you're kind of handicapping yourself (and don't forget to put them on 40 instead of 50mm!)
Akosha will work nicely enough as a Nisse, if you really wanted barker could pass for some HI (reaaaally tough muscles... but it's clear enough by size).
Throw in a single fusilier and a Swiss Guard with missile launcher (if you're above abusing barker that badly) and it's exactly what I just played, actually
From what I hear, here and there, the "big" models aren't all that, like, actually big? So perhaps they could qualify as bulky HI; alternatively there's always the option of putting one of them on a somewhat higher scenic base (to equal model bulk, for LoS purposes!) and counting it as a TAG of your choosing.
Cool. I was hoping I could use them as ALEPH, but I will see how I can go. I don't know much about Infinity to be honest. I am sure I will be able to shoe-horn them in somewhere, so long as each one is individual enough looking to tell who has what weapon.
Cheers!
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
spiralingcadaver wrote:I don't think they're in debt- that's what the kickstarter and publisher are there to protect them from. They're still making LE resins on their own... about the only thing that I'd expect could crush them is if they don't protect themselves similarly for future expansions and said expansions don't do well.
Does McVey have another source of income outside of the Studio? Either that, or he's selling a lot more LE resins than I thought. I just can't imagine him getting by on Sedition Wars sales...
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Post by: Bolognesus
 Fenriswulf wrote: Bolognesus wrote:...Vanguard infantry and mini-drones make for good enough PanO auxilia - Neoterra sectorial would get you quite a way.
I'm already using the doc, and as soon as wave two comes in here the engineer, as their respective PanO equivalents regularly; if you **really** wanted the hurleys could qualify as remotes but they're a bit too big for that so you're kind of handicapping yourself (and don't forget to put them on 40 instead of 50mm!)
Akosha will work nicely enough as a Nisse, if you really wanted barker could pass for some HI (reaaaally tough muscles... but it's clear enough by size).
Throw in a single fusilier and a Swiss Guard with missile launcher (if you're above abusing barker that badly) and it's exactly what I just played, actually
From what I hear, here and there, the "big" models aren't all that, like, actually big? So perhaps they could qualify as bulky HI; alternatively there's always the option of putting one of them on a somewhat higher scenic base (to equal model bulk, for LoS purposes!) and counting it as a TAG of your choosing.
Cool. I was hoping I could use them as ALEPH, but I will see how I can go. I don't know much about Infinity to be honest. I am sure I will be able to shoe-horn them in somewhere, so long as each one is individual enough looking to tell who has what weapon.
Cheers!
It depends. Do you want to use *just* the SW stuff or is using a bunch of CB models as well acceptable? That would open options. Maybe start a thread in the Infinity subforum though, this might derail a callously negative thread
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
BobtheInquisitor wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote:I don't think they're in debt- that's what the kickstarter and publisher are there to protect them from. They're still making LE resins on their own... about the only thing that I'd expect could crush them is if they don't protect themselves similarly for future expansions and said expansions don't do well.
Does McVey have another source of income outside of the Studio? Either that, or he's selling a lot more LE resins than I thought. I just can't imagine him getting by on Sedition Wars sales...
I believe he paints for other studios?
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Post by: Azazelx
Anyone know what happened to have him leave Privateer? It all happened when I was on gaming hiatus. PM is fine if it's not "nice" to discuss it openly.
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Post by: gunslingerpro
Azazelx wrote:Anyone know what happened to have him leave Privateer? It all happened when I was on gaming hiatus. PM is fine if it's not "nice" to discuss it openly.
I'm vaguely recalling a blow out about pay/working conditions and issues with Matt Wilson's wife?
I may be misremembering, but there is some familiarity with it.
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Post by: Taarnak
spiralingcadaver wrote: BobtheInquisitor wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote:I don't think they're in debt- that's what the kickstarter and publisher are there to protect them from. They're still making LE resins on their own... about the only thing that I'd expect could crush them is if they don't protect themselves similarly for future expansions and said expansions don't do well.
Does McVey have another source of income outside of the Studio? Either that, or he's selling a lot more LE resins than I thought. I just can't imagine him getting by on Sedition Wars sales...
I believe he paints for other studios?
Isn't (wasn't) he also doing the Art Director duty for Mantic as well? I'm sure I remember reading that somewhere.
~Eric
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Mantic has an art director??
Must be extremely part-time.
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Post by: RiTides
Mantic's art is fine... it's the sculpts that are hit-or-miss!
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Post by: Taarnak
RiTides wrote:Mantic's art is fine... it's the sculpts that are hit-or-miss!
That's true, but the sculpts should also fall under the Art Director's purview.
If McVey is still the AD for Mantic, he has been seriously slacking at the job. I'm not sure he is still at the post though.
~Eric
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Post by: sparkywtf
From when it was posted he was the AD to now, the only projects he could really make changes on is Deadzone and MA, and maybe like 1/3 of dreadball.
So far, Deadzone and MA are looking great...
(this is from what I remember, I don't know the dates when it was announced and stuff, so I am probably completely wrong)
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Post by: Azazelx
Taarnak wrote: RiTides wrote:Mantic's art is fine... it's the sculpts that are hit-or-miss!
That's true, but the sculpts should also fall under the Art Director's purview.
If McVey is still the AD for Mantic, he has been seriously slacking at the job. I'm not sure he is still at the post though.
~Eric
I read/heard somewhere (In one of the Dakka KoW threads, probably) that he was the AD for Mantic, but only in a part-time capacity. It did however cross-over with the first few months of the KS phase.
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Post by: AlexHolker
I finally received my wave 2 stuff. I'll be doing a proper stocktake later, but I've already discovered they misassembled the sentry guns and teleporter controls. Idiots.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
My stuff arrived last week. The terrain pack is really cool. The rest... rather tiny.
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Post by: Azazelx
Opening mine now. At a glance, I see a bunch of tiny figures with soft detail that I got charged $10-a-pair for. Utter garbage. Just at a glance, one of my Hexens has a broken ankle. I'm going to be too pissed off with this gak to do a proper inventory this weekend.
I honestly wouldn't be sad to see Studio McVey go under as a result of this - or certainly never again go beyond producing limited resins. It appears that Mike doesn't have the capacity to produce quality products on a larger scale than his boutique resin range, so he should either stick to that or work for other companies who can take care of the quality control.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
What exactly is supposed to be inside the "Biohazard Wave 2" pack? Is there a link to a list/images somewhere?
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Does this work?
It looks much more impressive on a green background, apparently. Automatically Appended Next Post: The gnosis suit in that picture is not to scale. Next to Niven Banks, it should appear 30% smaller by volume. Right?
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Post by: Makaleth
I will agree... I am shocked at the size of these $10 minis. They are closer to 15mm scale... not 28mm
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Post by: Azazelx
BobtheInquisitor wrote:Does this work?
It looks much more impressive on a green background, apparently.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
The gnosis suit in that picture is not to scale. Next to Niven Banks, it should appear 30% smaller by volume. Right?
I think I worked it out, though I was after something more like photos of someone's (correct) extras in hand, so I could see if I got everything.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Azazelx, that would require someone to have the enthusiasm to open, line up and photograph their Sedition Wars minis without collapsing into tears.
If such a person doesn't get help at Charter, I hope they get help somewhere.
...So, after that sales pitch, does anyone want one complete set of Strain models? Make me an offer!
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Post by: Alpharius
Agreed.
I'll be cataloging my "Biohazard" Sedition Wars stuff (including the terrain pack), leaving it all in shrink/unopened and then listing it on eBay sometime this week.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
 Alpharius wrote:Agreed.
I'll be cataloging my "Biohazard" Sedition Wars stuff (including the terrain pack), leaving it all in shrink/unopened and then listing it on eBay sometime this week.
I don't suppose you'd be open to trading for that terrain pack..? I've got some Dreadball Veermyn with your name on them. Or maybe a Mantic Troll.
Come back!
We make deal!
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Post by: Catyrpelius
BobtheInquisitor wrote: spiralingcadaver wrote:I don't think they're in debt- that's what the kickstarter and publisher are there to protect them from. They're still making LE resins on their own... about the only thing that I'd expect could crush them is if they don't protect themselves similarly for future expansions and said expansions don't do well.
Does McVey have another source of income outside of the Studio? Either that, or he's selling a lot more LE resins than I thought. I just can't imagine him getting by on Sedition Wars sales...
In addition to all the other things mentioned he also setup the current paint line for PP as well as the prior paint line for GW. He's had a hand in alot of stuff over the years.
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Post by: Azazelx
Yeah, though the question is more about his current income than his (impressive) pre-SW history.
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Post by: Fenriswulf
If you got a Ridley you don't want, I would be happy to take her off your hands dude. Let me know.
As for the 2nd wave stuff, I believe it's the lights out pack, the terrain pack, and the following figures;
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coolminiornot/sedition-wars-battle-for-alabaster/posts/513262
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Lights out came in the first wave
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Post by: Morathi's Darkest Sin
Well I've put my sealed 2nd copy in the shop for £55 on the vain hope it sells and I recoup some money. Would never have got much from eBay for it, and now with the shipping 10% charge eBay brought in I'm done as a seller there, with the increased P&P costs its just not worth it for small gain sales.
I sold a load of GW this past month in there close to retail, never considered using the shop that way before, set it up so the shop gets 6-10% and I still get between 80-90% of my money back, that's not too bad.
Still ticked over the 2nd wave, still not sure what the heck I'm going to do with it.
40919
Post by: spiralingcadaver
And you thought CMoN was done upsetting fans on this one...
Apparently sighted in the KS comments:
Bad news, folks. I just got back from the Battlefoam UK warehouse where I was told they are not currently packing Sedition Wars stuff. What they are packing is Zombicide. So, if you backed that KS, the one that started nearly a year after SW did, you're in luck. Battlefoam said they were acting on CMON's instructions so it would seem that means to prioritize Zombicide over SW. If you got your Wave 2 already - congrats. The quality might suck, but at least you got it. For the rest of us EU customers, no delivery for the foreseeable future. At this point I'm thinking of asking for my money back so I can put it in another KS.
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Post by: Absolutionis
Ouch. So CMoN is seeing SW as a lost cause, throwing Studio McVey under the bus, and prioritizing Zombicide to at least save their own brand.
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Post by: Alpharius
That seems like what's going on, doesn't it?
Ouch.
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Post by: CptJake
 Absolutionis wrote:Ouch. So CMoN is seeing SW as a lost cause, throwing Studio McVey under the bus, and prioritizing Zombicide to at least save their own brand.
It is probably a good business decision. Sedition Wars is already a very damaged brand at this point where as Zombicide is doing well. The numbers of Zombicide orders (and customers needing to be kept happy) is higher, and a higher priority than the smaller number of Sedition Wars customers (many whom are not going to be happy anyway).
I suspect this also indicates we won't see CMON involved in the Sedition Wars expansion (if McVey goes forward with that).
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
If he does, he will need a hell of a public relations campaign behind him.
That been said, do we have anything official?
38860
Post by: MrDwhitey
I just ordered on amazon a copy of the core boxed set, with zero intention of taking it any further than that, for £30.
After reading the last few pages it seems it's a good idea not to take it any further, but I'm not doing wrong just for the core set, am I? I have no expectations of second wave stuff/terrain because I didn't even see the KS!
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Being pretty actively involved including some playtesting, I'd say that there are absolutely no bonus models that I'd consider integral to playing (I feel they actually are mostly a little under powered and not particularly well balanced), and that you don't spare non-characters (it mostly just enables spamming).
While I'm a completionist and was expecting better minis, I'd say that you're really not missing out on much unless there's a specific mini you like (and the stealth Vanguard are gorgeous, though you can just use chits for those). The extra minis' rules are in a downloadable PDF so if you want the rules they're there.
...which reminds me- be sure your copy has the current rules. The easiest way to tell is if some abilities on cards have "attack action" or "movement action" bolded on them then you've got the current set. There's also a fair amount of downloadable content and errata.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
On the plus side, CMON finally shipped out replacements for my missing parts I contacted them about a month ago.
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Post by: zedmeister
spiralingcadaver wrote:And you thought CMoN was done upsetting fans on this one...
Apparently sighted in the KS comments:
Bad news, folks. I just got back from the Battlefoam UK warehouse where I was told they are not currently packing Sedition Wars stuff. What they are packing is Zombicide. So, if you backed that KS, the one that started nearly a year after SW did, you're in luck. Battlefoam said they were acting on CMON's instructions so it would seem that means to prioritize Zombicide over SW. If you got your Wave 2 already - congrats. The quality might suck, but at least you got it. For the rest of us EU customers, no delivery for the foreseeable future. At this point I'm thinking of asking for my money back so I can put it in another KS.
So, CMON have taken a new approach to dealing with SW backers:
I am, unbelievable as some of you might think, looking forward to future Sedition Wars games and minis. Though I hope to God CMON is no-where near any future attempts.
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Post by: sparkywtf
I look forward to the non CMON future of SW. I think it would have been a better project without them.
Shame for the UK backers who have to wait even longer for their items.
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Post by: Absolutionis
So long as they announce a change in materials to something better, I, too, would be willing to back another Studio McVey project so long as CMoN isn't involved.
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Post by: Alpharius
Absolutionis wrote:So long as they announce a change in materials to something better, I, too, would be willing to back another Studio McVey project so long as CMoN isn't involved.
That might get me back in, but I think it is too late for me where SW and McVey are concerned.
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Post by: CptJake
Alpharius wrote: Absolutionis wrote:So long as they announce a change in materials to something better, I, too, would be willing to back another Studio McVey project so long as CMoN isn't involved.
That might get me back in, but I think it is too late for me where SW and McVey are concerned.
I would want to see a plan up front for quality control along with a plan to address potential issues. Add in a promise of continued communication even when the news is bad. Hell even then I would be reluctant to back a project instead of buy existing vetted/reviewed product.
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Post by: Bolognesus
As far as lacking in communication, McVey proper isn't actually any better than CMoN are. Personally, and of course only going by wave 1 because it seems wave two will take another month or two to get here at least, I don't mind the material at all; fine to work with (with practice, and a good knife) and good enough quality-wise. I'm happy with the models, so far. Really want some of those sculpts previewed for AoS, too. I hope McVey sees some way to regain some of the lost goodwill but since they're seemingly sitting by and letting BF not do anything with the SW Wave 2 stock, without really doing anything about it, I'm sceptical at best. At this point I don't think McVey is equipped to handle a project as complex as this, TBH.
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Post by: CptJake
I did not mean to imply I thought McVey was better than CMON at comms. They both were crap at it, and I posted to that effect on the Studio McVey boards, often to be derided by those for whom McVey could do no wrong. Mike, by all accounts and from my personal experience dealing with him, is a good guy, but HIS name is all over this, and he rightfully shoulders a big chunk of the blame in my opinion.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Sure he's a good guy, wouldn't mind having a pint or two with him - but he's proven himself incapable with dealing like something like this pretty clearly now. I mean, at least keep up communications: that's pretty much the easiest bit. Feth that up and I know pretty well just how it's going to go on the tricky parts.
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Post by: zedmeister
Bolognesus wrote:Sure he's a good guy, wouldn't mind having a pint or two with him - but he's proven himself incapable with dealing like something like this pretty clearly now. I mean, at least keep up communications: that's pretty much the easiest bit. Feth that up and I know pretty well just how it's going to go on the tricky parts.
Definitely. For any future big box releases, he'll need a partner to help push it out. Though I think Warlord Games or similar would probably suit him better. He definitely needs to put his neck out there more. He has been posting on his forums occasionally to get the game rules sorted, though I get the feeling that he's reluctant to do on the KS as he'd get a lot awkward questions and comments directed at him (which he would as well).
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Post by: sparkywtf
I wouldn't be shocked if he can't post on the KS because he doesn't have access to it.
CMON ran the project, meaning they are in control on the page. They obviously at this point do not care about the game they signed on board to produce.
It doesn't excuse the lack of posting on his own forum, but you can't hold the KS communications against him.
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Post by: Alpharius
Heads up!
Update #115
Oct 23, 2013
Wave 2 shipping complete
13 comments
4 likes
We've completed shipping from both USA and EU warehouses for wave 2, and are shipping replacement parts or short shipped items now. If you should have received wave 2 but have not gotten a tracking number or your package AT ALL (possibly due to an oversight on our end), please contact us as soon as possible at support@coolminiornot.com so we can trace the issue and get you your wave 2 items.
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Post by: Piston Honda
If true, I feel better NOT backing wrath of kings.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
 MrDwhitey wrote:I just ordered on amazon a copy of the core boxed set, with zero intention of taking it any further than that, for £30.
After reading the last few pages it seems it's a good idea not to take it any further, but I'm not doing wrong just for the core set, am I? I have no expectations of second wave stuff/terrain because I didn't even see the KS!
It depends on what you want out of it.
The minis are mostly very attractive, if a bit small. However, they are a real pain to clean up to "tabletop" level, and will take a lot of time to assemble. The good news is that the Samaritans and the Strain paint up very well with simple techniques like drybrushing and washes. The core set of minis are the best to come out of the kickstarter, in my experience.
The rules have some issues. The balance seems to be off, and there is a lot of ambiguity in the poorly worded sections. From what I understand, this changes the game from "survival horror" into "the carnival from Zombieland", which will ruin the game for serious gamers. I fully expect to enjoy the game when I finally get to play it in ten years or so, but my gaming group is more silly than competitive.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Bob, I've been involved in testing the rules errata- the game is quite a ways from where it was, and getting to the point of reasonably balanced. I wish it had happened at very least before the second print run, but if you're willing to tolerate a game that's still in flux then it's pretty good.
BTW, don't understand the Zombieland comment.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Battlefoam obviously lost a bunch of stuff down the back of the sofa
Update
Missing shipments from EU warehouse - out tomorrow
For those of you who got in touch with us on this matter yesterday, sorry for the delay, there was an oversight at the EU warehouse and some packages were not sent - we've located the pledges that need to be completed and these will be sent out on Friday (and Monday if there is overflow).
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Post by: MrDwhitey
Thanks for replies, the game I got had the models in 2 special vacformed plastic box things, and the cards have bolded [MOVE ABILITY] tags, so I assume second?
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Post by: Bolognesus
MrDwhitey wrote:Thanks for replies, the game I got had the models in 2 special vacformed plastic box things, and the cards have bolded [MOVE ABILITY] tags, so I assume second?
would you have a pic or two of that? thanks! sure does sound like 2nd run, yeah.
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Post by: MrDwhitey
Here it is:
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Post by: rigeld2
Yeah - I wish mine came like that.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
Oh, that's new. The 1st edition ones just came in bags. And yes, that's definitely 2nd edition, though (I forget if I mentioned it before), you'll want to DL the errata, load outs, etc. from the site- particularly the rulebook has seen a lot of changes even since 2nd edition.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Thanks.
That looks a lot tidier than how we got our stuff, tbh...
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Post by: MrDwhitey
Well, I've put it all together now. That was a fun few hours!
There were only a few models with noticeable mould-line (the female with a sword, the robot Cthonian, and the hoverdroid tank). Each model had around one point where it had obviously been on a sprue and I had to clean it up a little, but nothing major. Only issue besides that was the four legged big beast, it didn't really fit so well when going together, but it's not too bad, especially as the major gaps are hidden once the legs are on. So from the sounds of it I lucked out, or they really did fix up the kit for second.
I absolutely love the models though, and if nothing else, I now have a collection I can use for Dead Space horror stories.
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
You saw they did a dead space reference model, right?
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Post by: Azazelx
Though that was a KS-exclusive add-on...
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Post by: Bacms
Which you can find on eBay for cheap
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Post by: Breotan
So, except for the BF bags is delivery basically done then?
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
And a bunch that are still supposed to head out in Europe that they missed (or, according to a potential leak, de-prioritized)
re: add-on, yeah, meant that it should be easy to find.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
They indeed seem to have forgot a few of the EU backers.....
"we have shipped everything" a few emails alter mine included, "we have not shipped to everybody"
Consistency FTW.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Maybe Battlefoam just has a Really big sofa in the warehouse,
and a bunch of boxes fell down behind it and got lost until they went looking for the TV remote control ?
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I'm not letting them off the hook until I see that promised Sedition Wars tie-in novel.
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Post by: Azazelx
Oh yes, I forgot about that. I suspect that particular KS promise/stretch won't ever eventuate. Though it reminds me - aren't we supposed to get a Kings of War Digital Art Book at some stage?
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
They did send out the KoW art book. It even had in it some of the "real" design sketches that were sent to sculptors in lieu of the designs we pledged to support.
And it's a shame about the novel. The universe has a lot of promise in terms of being entertaining...and I already have the toys.
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Post by: AegisGrimm
The book? Hah!
I'm STILL waiting for the campaign that lets us use all the Biohazard-level figures we got. Don't think that'll ever happen either, though.
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Post by: CptJake
AegisGrimm wrote:The book? Hah!
I'm STILL waiting for the campaign that lets us use all the Biohazard-level figures we got. Don't think that'll ever happen either, though.
Or the promised solo rules...
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Post by: spiralingcadaver
As a tester, I can confirm we're working on the quarantine campaign (albeit slower than I'd like) though there hasn't been anything about the solo rules.
I kinda' thought the book thing was a joke. Either way, yeah, I don't expect to see that, though was never inspired by the SW writing.
I'm championing actually getting rules for the cthonian drone, so hopefully they'll eventually get to that.
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Post by: AlexHolker
spiralingcadaver wrote:I kinda' thought the book thing was a joke. Either way, yeah, I don't expect to see that, though was never inspired by the SW writing.
I would have been more interested in the book if they hadn't ruined the most interesting thing about the setting.
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Post by: Alpharius
What was that?
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Post by: AlexHolker
That the Solar Conglomerate had the technology to cheat death. Instead they just find a replacement and act like that's the same thing. Even if a woman like canon!Kara could exist - someone who knows from first-hand experience the pain of being presumed dead while nobody else cares that she died because they created a clone to live her life, yet has not the slightest qualms about subjecting the men under her command to the same treatment - I don't want to read a novel about her.
You could still write an interesting story about the "replacement goldfish" technology, but it wouldn't look like this.
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Post by: Alpharius
I remember that now - and you're right, that's not good.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Got my tracking number yesterday; at least this time they shipped from the UK, not from the US.
Jokers managed to adress it to "bolognesus" rather than my real name, though. This could be fun when the package gets here. I'm kind of thinking I might sign with a little cross rather than my usual signature though - only fitting
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Post by: Sirius42
Well all my SW stuff has finally arrived but tbh i'm so dispondant about the whole affair that i'm considering moving it all on, the only thing stopping me being that I'd make a massive loss and a faint hope that mcvey might turn it all around and make the game actually worth it, any thoughts on if that's actually going to happen or dya think they'll just sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened?
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