Sirius42 wrote:
Well all my SW stuff has finally arrived but tbh i'm so dispondant about the whole affair that i'm considering moving it all on, the only thing stopping me being that I'd make a massive loss and a faint hope that mcvey might turn it all around and make the game actually worth it, any thoughts on if that's actually going to happen or dya think they'll just sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened?

I think if you are willing to follow the FAQ and errata the game will eventually be okay, but that it will also probably be a dead system at that point (no one will be buying it/playing it). We'll see. If McVey can turn out the expansion as a New Game he has a chance of doing okay with it, but there will be a LOT of skeptical folks out there when he tries. The Fan Boys may help tone down their effect but there will be negative noise on any release.

Saw the terrain in-person... looks good, but I can only use so many doors! I wish more of it were walls/barricades, instead.

 RiTides wrote:
Saw the terrain in-person... looks good, but I can only use so many doors! I wish more of it were walls/barricades, instead.

No joke. I bought two boxes with my pledge and now have about 40x the number of doors I'll ever really need for anything.

 CptJake wrote:

 Sirius42 wrote:
Well all my SW stuff has finally arrived but tbh i'm so dispondant about the whole affair that i'm considering moving it all on, the only thing stopping me being that I'd make a massive loss and a faint hope that mcvey might turn it all around and make the game actually worth it, any thoughts on if that's actually going to happen or dya think they'll just sweep it under the carpet and pretend it never happened?

I think if you are willing to follow the FAQ and errata the game will eventually be okay, but that it will also probably be a dead system at that point (no one will be buying it/playing it). We'll see. If McVey can turn out the expansion as a New Game he has a chance of doing okay with it, but there will be a LOT of skeptical folks out there when he tries. The Fan Boys may help tone down their effect but there will be negative noise on any release.

I believe the official word is that the expansion will be useable as a standalone game.

I've been involved in testing/errata, and the amount of changes make it unwieldy with all of the documents, but I feel that the game is pretty sound now- just wish the game had had enough testing then instead of after two pretty serious overhauls...

My problem (and it is mine) is that I hate having to compile sources to have a complete/fixed set of rules. I really like one document, and hate having to make it myself, especially after paying as much for all this as I have.

I know the expansion is supposed to be stand alone. Frankly it would be smart to completely divorce it from this initial effort even if it shares mechanisms. I do think the folks who feel less than satisfied by the initial effort will hurt the follow up.

100% agree. I really hope they'll have the good sense to release a complete updated version of the rules (compared with the rushed partial update they released).

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
100% agree. I really hope they'll have the good sense to release a complete updated version of the rules (compared with the rushed partial update they released).

Unfortunately that is not their stated intent. I am very sure I read they did not intend to update the card or rule PDFs and instead will address issues with the FAQ and errata.

I assume the expansion will get a new rulebook, but now way of knowing if it will be usable for the current set and its scenarios.

Is that expansion still going to happen, though? I mean, I'd very much like to have some of those sculpts shown but given the state the SW IP is in, are they even going to bother anymore?

I'd rather they just make them in resin rather than the stuff they've been using. I don't like resin, but I'll take it over tacky plastic.

Really, though? I'll take a pile of restic just fine, price-wise, thankyouverymuch. Two of those big things are going to cost more than a full boxed game would, if executed in resin. No thanks, really.

And I'll throw in my two cents to say that I'd rather have nothing than have to deal with this PVC stuff ever again. I'm in the process of divesting myself of all my Sedition Wars miniatures, and in point of fact I'm getting rid of all my Privateer Press plastics as well - and I won't ever buy any more of them. Awful, horrible material that totally destroyed my interest in these models. No amount of work can make them look good.

meh. 20min with a *good* knife and they're great. easily worth the savings IMO. does take some getting used to.

There are only three possibilities that can allow a person to be happy with these models:
1. You are a genius with a knife and I need to bow down to your brilliance.
2. You have the same attitude to mold lines that I had a few years ago (I didn't use to remove them).
3. You're not that good at painting and so the horribly carved up models that resulted from your attempts at mold line removal don't really detract from the paint job anyway.

Before I get criticized, I think it's not elitism to say these things. It shouldn't be elitism to admit that there exists a range of painting and modeling skills across the hobby. No-one starts off in this hobby with Golden-Demon quality painting and I'm certainly not a prize-winning painter by any stretch, but after twenty five years I'm finally at a place where mold lines and poor clean up will detract from an otherwise good paint job. I didn't use to be so "discriminating" and (apart from the fact they were more poorly-painted anyway) several of my older models clearly suffer from the sloppy job I did of removing mold lines. I was obviously happy with them at the time though and maybe that's how the satisfied customers of PP and CMON feel about this plastic material.

In my opinion, these models make excellent beginner models as they are cheap and provide quite a nice range of surfaces and textures to practice on, but they simply are not of the quality required by the higher-end of our hobby - and since I keep aspiring to improve my own painting and get better and better, I require miniatures of a higher quality than this PVC can provide. This is why I will never again buy a model made from this material.

Or maybe really everyone is a genius with a knife and I'm just not capable of cleaning these models. I can admit my failings and don't need anyone to sugar-coat their description of my mold line removal (I think it's fair to call it "butchery"). In this case I would urge you to post pictures of your mold line removal skills and I will PAY you to clean up my Converence of Cyriss models, as in the six to ten hours I've spent on them so far I've not been able to get them to a level suitable for painting.

They make crappy beginner models because they don't fit together properly.

Well that was not the rousing "it'll be ok just you Wait" I hoped for, I guess to eBay it is, shame kickstarters don't have a returns policy :p

angryboy2k wrote:
There are only three possibilities that can allow a person to be happy with these models:
1. You are a genius with a knife and I need to bow down to your brilliance.
2. You have the same attitude to mold lines that I had a few years ago (I didn't use to remove them).
3. You're not that good at painting and so the horribly carved up models that resulted from your attempts at mold line removal don't really detract from the paint job anyway.

Before I get criticized, I think it's not elitism to say these things. It shouldn't be elitism to admit that there exists a range of painting and modeling skills across the hobby. No-one starts off in this hobby with Golden-Demon quality painting and I'm certainly not a prize-winning painter by any stretch, but after twenty five years I'm finally at a place where mold lines and poor clean up will detract from an otherwise good paint job. I didn't use to be so "discriminating" and (apart from the fact they were more poorly-painted anyway) several of my older models clearly suffer from the sloppy job I did of removing mold lines. I was obviously happy with them at the time though and maybe that's how the satisfied customers of PP and CMON feel about this plastic material.

In my opinion, these models make excellent beginner models as they are cheap and provide quite a nice range of surfaces and textures to practice on, but they simply are not of the quality required by the higher-end of our hobby - and since I keep aspiring to improve my own painting and get better and better, I require miniatures of a higher quality than this PVC can provide. This is why I will never again buy a model made from this material.

Or maybe really everyone is a genius with a knife and I'm just not capable of cleaning these models. I can admit my failings and don't need anyone to sugar-coat their description of my mold line removal (I think it's fair to call it "butchery"). In this case I would urge you to post pictures of your mold line removal skills and I will PAY you to clean up my Converence of Cyriss models, as in the six to ten hours I've spent on them so far I've not been able to get them to a level suitable for painting.

First of all, use a **new** replaceable knife blade. It needs to be very, very sharp. then, just start slicing (not scraping!). You won't get it all the first pass round because you're just taking mold lines off of large surfaces, so go back to the details. Two to four passes works best for me. Also remember that restic holds great detail on the sides (as in, planes orthogonal to the tool) compared to polystyrene - if you want to keep it all though, you'll be slicing yourself silly. Don't worry cutting off a little detail you don't care about too much rather than spending hours cleaning up corners you'll be skipping over in painting anyway. Alternatively, if you're going to spend a lot of time painting it, spend a lot of time cleaning well. Generally, I find it doesn't distract much - you will have to plan ahead in your cleaning, knowing in advance how well you're going to paint (and however great a painter, everyone has plenty of models he's not going to paint to more than good tabletop level, whatever that means to you ). You're right that if you go in without thinking ahead, you'll end up with sloppy, distracting work.
I find that generally goes for any technique/aspect in the entire bloody hobby, however. Could be just me, though

Fifteen years or so in, I have no problem at all painting to a pretty good standard consistently, or actually painting something I'd like looking at from up close if I were patient enough. There's room for both, though. I love my hyper-detailed high-end (and fething expensive) Mierce stuff - but I find that with a little love, PVC models can go a long way as well. Not quite there, but close. In any case, once you learn to work with it, and work with it well, it can very well provide models superior to anything in polystyrene. No, it's not boutique resin stuff. Pricetag might have told you that (and that goes for the PP stuff as well; it's on the expensive side for PVC but not anywhere near great resin pricing...).

I will however say that when you state "Or maybe really everyone is a genius with a knife and I'm just not capable of cleaning these models. I can admit my failings and don't need anyone to sugar-coat their description of my mold line removal (I think it's fair to call it "butchery")." I'm guessing you've really just not caught on to the 'trick' required for this particular job quite yet. God knows it took me a while
Sit down, with a fresh (and I mean **fresh**) knife blade. This would be a good start, for example (though I'm not too sure about titanium knives, I prefer carbon steel though annoyingly, try getting anything but *&%^&fething stainless in a hobby knife blade and you're SOL...) just to make sure we're talking about the same kind of knife
start slicing. Don't take of the entire line systematically in one go, get the 'big' bits first - I'm sure cutting that away isn't too hard if you have a bit of experience with a knife of any kind
Then, with the tip (or something near it ) start removing material from crevices. just, anything you notice, no pattern whatsoever - it feels less arduous that way keep at it long enough and you'll have a clean model before you know it.
Just don't scrape (can work, but not very well), take it easy, and remember that loss of a little bit of detail you didn't care much for anyway is better than a visible mold line (I want to stress this is an exception, though. especially the 'inner' bit of a leg can often be sufficiently problematic that you just do stuff like that - it saves time ). I can't for the life of me imagine you can't clean a few of those warjacks (vectors, it was?) up to the point where no moldlines whatsoever are visible anymore.
Infantry is where it gets annoying (though the samaritans were actually quite easy IIRC) simply because of fine bitz and the amount of work cleaning a bunch of infantrymen takes.

It is definitely possible, though; plenty of folks manage it just fine. About not buying anything in PVC anymore - that's going to be very, very annoying a few years from now, and I think you'll want to rethink that. You'll pretty much have to at some point, given how popular the material is getting, so better get used to it. Believe me, I've uttered some truly vile things when getting to grips with the stuff but you get to the point where it's not hard at all, anymore.

That method eats up a lot of time and money/blades. I find that restic minis usually aren't worth that kind of effort for me, which is why the medium is frustrating.

Lately, I've just been working on restic minis when I've had to change blades. I'll get big stuff with the blade, small stuff or rounded edges with a plastic sanding stick, and then hope that I can cover up the fuzziness or mold line survivors with liquid green stuff. (Haven't done that last bit yet, so I might be stuck with "good enough".)

Bolognesus is certainly right about using a new blade and cutting away the mold lines.

Another way is to get some good fine diamond coated files. Those take off the mold lines on PVC figures very well from what I've found.

Use a small amount of acetone to knock down the fuzziness and they look good as new.

Just another method.

~Eric

Bob, I managed to get all of both waves done on two blades, and probably about twice as much time as regular mold lines. Not horrible.

Anybody got their DVD with wave 2 shipment?

I got mine. Haven't unwrapped the shrink wrap from it yet.

@Bob
I think you ought to consider switching brand of blades, or something. I got through two Biohazard wave 1 sets on three or four blades, and it could have been done with less, looking back at it now.

You're saying I should spend more than $4 per pack, then?

I don't know... I don't trust a blade that doesn't lose the last 2mm of point in the first day.

Pack of how many? And likely, yeah. Getting what you pay for etc.

Bolognesus, you make a good argument and offer some excellent advice but I'm honestly done with the material. I don't enjoy removing mold lines at the best of times, so you can imagine how I feel about a material that wastes as much of my limited time as this does. That's not even accounting for the fact that (adding insult to injury) I'm not only slow, I suck at it too (though I defy anyone to do a nice job on the Convergene of Cyriss models; the damage you mentioned as an inevitable result of cleaning shows up a mile away on these figures, necessitating resculpting and wasting even more time).

I've actually tried very sharp knives and the diamond-coated files and acetone suggested by another poster above. I'm not doing well with them and maybe I've not got the knack, but I can't be bothered learning. It isn't worth my time for models as cheap as Sedition Wars, and as for PP's plastics... Well I just feel that they've rebalanced the time = money equation such that my precious time wasted cleaning up this garbage = their massive profit increase from moving to this cheap material. It's not really something I think they should be rewarded for and so I'm putting my money where my mouth is and not buying products in PVC anymore - no matter how futile or insignificant such action might be.

As for the future being this material, I'm afraid that just means I won't be buying. I've got many years' worth of metal and styrene models stockpiled that will likely engage me for the rest of my life, and I'm having so much fun playing Netrunner (with smaller time and financial investment) that I question why I'd ever "need" to torture myself in the future by buying more of this stuff.

I agree that the PP models can be frustrating, too... I didn't really care too much about mold lines when I was building some so I was OK with them, but I prefer hard plastic so much more. I'm willing to pay a bit more to not have to deal with this kind of material... there have been such a glut of models made in it recently, and I don't really need MORE models- I need good ones!

That said, I can definitely see a place for it for things such as the base box game figures (here, and especially for something like Zombicide), the scenery, etc. But the homage figures / characters would have been a lot better off in traditional resin, even with the price difference, imo.

 RiTides wrote:
I agree that the PP models can be frustrating, too... I didn't really care too much about mold lines when I was building some so I was OK with them, but I prefer hard plastic so much more. I'm willing to pay a bit more to not have to deal with this kind of material... there have been such a glut of models made in it recently, and I don't really need MORE models- I need good ones!

That said, I can definitely see a place for it for things such as the base box game figures (here, and especially for something like Zombicide), the scenery, etc. But the homage figures / characters would have been a lot better off in traditional resin, even with the price difference, imo.

There is no argument, the special characters and all extra figures we paid for SHOULD have been in resin.

angryboy2k wrote:
Bolognesus, you make a good argument and offer some excellent advice but I'm honestly done with the material. I don't enjoy removing mold lines at the best of times, so you can imagine how I feel about a material that wastes as much of my limited time as this does. That's not even accounting for the fact that (adding insult to injury) I'm not only slow, I suck at it too (though I defy anyone to do a nice job on the Convergene of Cyriss models; the damage you mentioned as an inevitable result of cleaning shows up a mile away on these figures, necessitating resculpting and wasting even more time).

I've actually tried very sharp knives and the diamond-coated files and acetone suggested by another poster above. I'm not doing well with them and maybe I've not got the knack, but I can't be bothered learning. It isn't worth my time for models as cheap as Sedition Wars, and as for PP's plastics... Well I just feel that they've rebalanced the time = money equation such that my precious time wasted cleaning up this garbage = their massive profit increase from moving to this cheap material. It's not really something I think they should be rewarded for and so I'm putting my money where my mouth is and not buying products in PVC anymore - no matter how futile or insignificant such action might be.

As for the future being this material, I'm afraid that just means I won't be buying. I've got many years' worth of metal and styrene models stockpiled that will likely engage me for the rest of my life, and I'm having so much fun playing Netrunner (with smaller time and financial investment) that I question why I'd ever "need" to torture myself in the future by buying more of this stuff.

Hmm. I think that'll come back to bite you, but to each his own. Hobbies are supposed to be relaxing, after all
Would you mind listing what Convergence models are particularly nasty in your opinion? Something as nasty as possible (in your view) while still cheap enough for me to get on a whim would be good - I wanna see this up close, TBH.

So, did anybody got their DVD's with this final shipment? or they quietly forgot them?

If the first is the case I should bother them to send them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd rather they just make them in resin rather than the stuff they've been using. I don't like resin, but I'll take it over tacky plastic.

The material made me miss metal.

And I use to complain about metal.

Never again my precious metal, I will never complain about you again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IdentifyZero wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
I agree that the PP models can be frustrating, too... I didn't really care too much about mold lines when I was building some so I was OK with them, but I prefer hard plastic so much more. I'm willing to pay a bit more to not have to deal with this kind of material... there have been such a glut of models made in it recently, and I don't really need MORE models- I need good ones!

That said, I can definitely see a place for it for things such as the base box game figures (here, and especially for something like Zombicide), the scenery, etc. But the homage figures / characters would have been a lot better off in traditional resin, even with the price difference, imo.

There is no argument, the special characters and all extra figures we paid for SHOULD have been in resin.

There is no argument.

everything in this box should have never been made in the material it was made in.

The loss of crisp detail (I own ever Studio McVey resin miniature both Sedition Wars and LE line), the quality loss is pretty significant.

For the price you paid and the amount you got I will say it is a pretty damn good deal, but the effort it takes to clean them up is painful.

I did get the DVD. I'm in the US though so my shipment was packed at a different location than yours.

EU backer here, shipped from the UK - I had a DVD in the package for each of my Biohazard pledges.

£19.99 delivered! in the uk:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sedition-Wars-Game-board-game-brand-new-sealed-/141104455474?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Games&hash=item20da7b1f32

If you get on with the figures that is a hell of a bargain.

 Bolognesus wrote:

Would you mind listing what Convergence models are particularly nasty in your opinion? Something as nasty as possible (in your view) while still cheap enough for me to get on a whim would be good - I wanna see this up close, TBH.

I bought the battlebox and a heavy vector. I only finished assembling Syntherion and the heavy vector. Bad parts as follows:
Syntherion's spindly arms and weaponry (spinning disc and pointy drill bit with pipes are the worst bits)
Heavy vector legs and weapon arms (gears, off-round distorted missiles)
The light vectors (pretty much the whole thing but pay special attention to the legs, spindly arms, and the lower torso (hip?) that has a systemic molding defect on the piping (no casts exist where this has been molded correctly).

If you buy them and clean them up I would love to see pics.

 rosafari wrote:
£19.99 delivered! in the uk:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sedition-Wars-Game-board-game-brand-new-sealed-/141104455474?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Games&hash=item20da7b1f32

If you get on with the figures that is a hell of a bargain.

Wow, that is quite the bargain!

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
So, did anybody got their DVD's with this final shipment? or they quietly forgot them?

If the first is the case I should bother them to send them.

I got mine, so they were made

probably just forgotten by battlefoam (or maybe they ran out?)

angryboy2k wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

Would you mind listing what Convergence models are particularly nasty in your opinion? Something as nasty as possible (in your view) while still cheap enough for me to get on a whim would be good - I wanna see this up close, TBH.

I bought the battlebox and a heavy vector. I only finished assembling Syntherion and the heavy vector. Bad parts as follows:
Syntherion's spindly arms and weaponry (spinning disc and pointy drill bit with pipes are the worst bits)
Heavy vector legs and weapon arms (gears, off-round distorted missiles)
The light vectors (pretty much the whole thing but pay special attention to the legs, spindly arms, and the lower torso (hip?) that has a systemic molding defect on the piping (no casts exist where this has been molded correctly).

If you buy them and clean them up I would love to see pics.

...That's a bit expensive, lol. Name one model (rather not a heavy vector ) and I'll be happy to oblige

You could see if anyone in your area bought two battle boxes and has an extra Syntherion or light vector to sell. Or buy a box and then return it to PP for being crap.

On topic, yeah I got my DVD with my second wave. Still haven't opened it. I've been too busy selling off the wave two models.

 Slinky wrote:

 rosafari wrote:
£19.99 delivered! in the uk:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sedition-Wars-Game-board-game-brand-new-sealed-/141104455474?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Games&hash=item20da7b1f32

If you get on with the figures that is a hell of a bargain.

Wow, that is quite the bargain!

Agreed, wow... I mean, I know the figures are hard to work with, but there's a price for everything- and that price is insane!

The figures really aren't all that hard to work with. But agreed, that's a nice cost just for the figurs alone.

Comes close to being worth it for the bases...

@angryboy2k "Syntherion or light vector"
Will have a look around
edit and forget about it for now; nothing second hand around here, and they don't sell the *&%( base box models separately as far as I can see...

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
So, did anybody got their DVD's with this final shipment? or they quietly forgot them?

If the first is the case I should bother them to send them.

I got my DVD. Haven't watched it yet. I should also download that HD torrent of the video that they put out awhile back. Anyone still got the link?

It doesnt seem to be seeded, ive been trying since they posted it

 rosafari wrote:
£19.99 delivered! in the uk:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sedition-Wars-Game-board-game-brand-new-sealed-/141104455474?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Games&hash=item20da7b1f32

If you get on with the figures that is a hell of a bargain.

Sweet, bought. Going to see if I can use these minis for Deadzone Plague and Rebs. The Strain are nicer minis than the Plague for that sci-fi zombie/mutant design although the style is so different I might just use them as a generic zombie horde for sci-fi. Mainly interested in the human stuff though, with Rebs the more sculpt variety the better really, they're supposed to be an "everything and the kitchen sink" faction and mine will have minis from deadzone, urban war, sedition wars and even mars attacks (alien tiger corp and mercs) in there.

Had a look at the contents and a little surprised at the number of repeat sculpts... isn't that something that the kickstarter should have funded, making the core game good quality instead of going off and doing a bazillion random KS exclusives that contributed crap all to making it a retail success? Think there's a lesson to be learned there, with a mil of funding they could have done hard plastic modular 3d spaceship interior terrain and made a killing at retail.

If it's one thing I do like about Mars Attacks, it's the fact that while the minis are 1-piece, there are 10 different martian and 10 different US soldier poses to avoid the repetition problem.

Oh well, very glad I didn't back this but on the other hand also very glad to have snagged a ton of cheap minis that are excellent sculpts.

The scale is okay on the base game, right? It's only the wave 2 stuff that went all stick insect?

Also, is the game any good, or should I just keep the minis and bin the rules/ tiles?

yeah,
Almost worth buying just for the cool plastic bases.
40p a base not bad.

Is there a market for reselling the minis without bases?

Panic...

If anyone is looking at this just for the bases and not the minis, I'll happily trade a full set of bases for a full set of minis.

Gotta make the most of these vulture grabs!

Buy a second box, I'll pay 20 quid for two sets of bases shipped to NL with pleasure.

Damn, Bolo - good idea!

Did you guys see that apparently, folks asking for refunds were asked to destroy their models?

Quote from one user on October 18th:

Andreas Øwre wrote:i mailed them about 6 hours ago and asked for a full refund. They sent me a confirmation email stating I would get a returnslip and a full refund about an hour later. Glad to be rid of this terrible product. Poor game, poor quality (tiles and cardboard w1, miniatures w2) Post campain customer service however is top notch.

Followed by this on November 13th:

Andreas Øwre wrote:I was just asked to Destroy the contents. And destroy them I will!

Another user from November 5th:

Guillaume Bernard wrote:I just asked a refund and got an answer the same day telling me to destroy my figs to get the refund. Then it took almost 2 weeks to get the refund by paypal.

Guillaume Bernard wrote:They ask for a picture of the destroyed minis.

Must say was a real pleasure doing that, almost cathartic.

I don't know if this is just for overseas backers as both had interesting names. There was one other user who also said they were asked to destroy theirs, but one just 2 days ago said that they were asked to return theirs to the warehouse in the US (and they were in the UK). So, maybe it depends on what the items are- the backer asked to return the models was for wave 3 (I'm assuming that's just some of the exclusives, whereas maybe the others were the base box).

Certainly interesting... I think Andreas is right in the way he characterizes his disappointment- it was with the tiles in wave 1, and the miniatures in wave 2. If you can snag the base box for a deal, or the terrain, I think that'd be very smart imo.

 Azazelx wrote:
Damn, Bolo - good idea!

I'm perfectly serious about it - anyone interested in more of the minis should drop me a line, I'll gladly buy the bases at somewhere around that rate
PM's open

...I'd actually take the drone tank thing for a few quid, too.

Any idea when we can buy the terrain?

I'd like to know that too, Bob...

I'm about to sell everything on eBay, all wave 1 and wave 2 stuff, and a box of terrain.

If it doesn't sell, I'll PM you guys on the terrain.

...and the bases, perhaps? (would actually take much of the vanguard stuff as well)

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm about to sell everything on eBay, all wave 1 and wave 2 stuff, and a box of terrain.

If it doesn't sell, I'll PM you guys on the terrain.

You don't happen to have the lights out stuff do you?

No, that is one thing I managed to resist.

Which is sad, as I might have actually had a good use for them in INFINITY games!

...Feeling that particular pain here quite sharply, too...

 RiTides wrote:
Did you guys see that apparently, folks asking for refunds were asked to destroy their models?

Quote from one user on October 18th:

Andreas Øwre wrote:i mailed them about 6 hours ago and asked for a full refund. They sent me a confirmation email stating I would get a returnslip and a full refund about an hour later. Glad to be rid of this terrible product. Poor game, poor quality (tiles and cardboard w1, miniatures w2) Post campain customer service however is top notch.

Followed by this on November 13th:

Andreas Øwre wrote:I was just asked to Destroy the contents. And destroy them I will!

Another user from November 5th:

Guillaume Bernard wrote:I just asked a refund and got an answer the same day telling me to destroy my figs to get the refund. Then it took almost 2 weeks to get the refund by paypal.

Guillaume Bernard wrote:They ask for a picture of the destroyed minis.




Must say was a real pleasure doing that, almost cathartic.

I don't know if this is just for overseas backers as both had interesting names. There was one other user who also said they were asked to destroy theirs, but one just 2 days ago said that they were asked to return theirs to the warehouse in the US (and they were in the UK). So, maybe it depends on what the items are- the backer asked to return the models was for wave 3 (I'm assuming that's just some of the exclusives, whereas maybe the others were the base box).

Certainly interesting... I think Andreas is right in the way he characterizes his disappointment- it was with the tiles in wave 1, and the miniatures in wave 2. If you can snag the base box for a deal, or the terrain, I think that'd be very smart imo.

Just to clarify, is this folks requesting a refund for sedition wars stuff? because if so, now that theyve started it could open the flood gates....

 Absolutionis wrote:
So long as they announce a change in materials to something better, I, too, would be willing to back another Studio McVey project so long as CMoN isn't involved.

I own several Studio McVey miniatures and will attest to their excellent quality and good customer service.

I have been leery of CMON ever since I bought an elf on a giant owl because they were 'Limited Edition' and there were only a handful left... and then they changed their minds and kept making and selling more. I spent money leaving me short one week to get that figure, because I feared that once gone, I'd have no opportunity to get it again.

There is something 'off' about CMON and their business ethos.

I will happily continue to purchase from Studio McVey in the future, I will continue to tread with wariness around CMON and continue to refuse participation in any of their projects as I did when it was clear they were involved in this.

 Sirius42 wrote:
Just to clarify, is this folks requesting a refund for sedition wars stuff? because if so, now that theyve started it could open the flood gates....

Does throwing boxes of miniatures into the ocean count as destroying them? Because I reckon you could have some fun with that.

If for any reason CMON does not cooperate with you (after trying to solve it privately) threaten them by reporting them to the BBB.

I have had outstanding service twice after doing so.

David Doust of CMON was reported more than a few times to the BBB when he owned New Wave miniatures ripping people.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Sirius42 wrote:
Just to clarify, is this folks requesting a refund for sedition wars stuff? because if so, now that theyve started it could open the flood gates....

Does throwing boxes of miniatures into the ocean count as destroying them? Because I reckon you could have some fun with that.

Ironically enough I work offshore so I could probably arrange a fairly elaborate version of that.

 Sirius42 wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Sirius42 wrote:
Just to clarify, is this folks requesting a refund for sedition wars stuff? because if so, now that theyve started it could open the flood gates....

Does throwing boxes of miniatures into the ocean count as destroying them? Because I reckon you could have some fun with that.

Ironically enough I work offshore so I could probably arrange a fairly elaborate version of that.

put it on youtube.

After a guarantee of a refund I might.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
So long as they announce a change in materials to something better, I, too, would be willing to back another Studio McVey project so long as CMoN isn't involved.

I own several Studio McVey miniatures and will attest to their excellent quality and good customer service.

I have been leery of CMON ever since I bought an elf on a giant owl because they were 'Limited Edition' and there were only a handful left... and then they changed their minds and kept making and selling more. I spent money leaving me short one week to get that figure, because I feared that once gone, I'd have no opportunity to get it again.

There is something 'off' about CMON and their business ethos.

I will happily continue to purchase from Studio McVey in the future, I will continue to tread with wariness around CMON and continue to refuse participation in any of their projects as I did when it was clear they were involved in this.

About my feeling. I've learned to disbelieve most gaming "limited edition" things, because without a number, it's just "until we stop making it".

I also am definitely steering clear of CMoN since their recent "by signing this, you acknowledge we're not accountable for anything ever" TOS

 spiralingcadaver wrote:


I also am definitely steering clear of CMoN since their recent "by signing this, you acknowledge we're not accountable for anything ever" TOS

Do you have a link to the Tos?

Link 2nd post down, by Orlando, if it doesn't snap correctly. I'm surprised it wasn't re-posted here, so quoting:

We are informing you that the products are in design and as presented are not 100% final and that shipping times are an estimate only, and may ship earlier or later. By clicking the "Checkout with PayPal" button below you agree that the final products may differ significantly in name, appearance, composition, color or other material manner, and that the shipping dates may be earlier or later than the provided estimates, and that you also agree that you will not seek a refund or compensation due to these changes. If you do not agree, do not click "Checkout with PayPal" and instead write kickstarter@coolminiornot.com immediately to cancel your pledge for a refund.

Who was interested in bases, again? I haven't been able to swap my set of strain models, so I can make a deal with you for their bases and just donate the minis themselves to the orphanage.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
So long as they announce a change in materials to something better, I, too, would be willing to back another Studio McVey project so long as CMoN isn't involved.

I own several Studio McVey miniatures and will attest to their excellent quality and good customer service.

I have been leery of CMON ever since I bought an elf on a giant owl because they were 'Limited Edition' and there were only a handful left... and then they changed their minds and kept making and selling more. I spent money leaving me short one week to get that figure, because I feared that once gone, I'd have no opportunity to get it again.

There is something 'off' about CMON and their business ethos.

I will happily continue to purchase from Studio McVey in the future, I will continue to tread with wariness around CMON and continue to refuse participation in any of their projects as I did when it was clear they were involved in this.

All of the things you don't like about the Sedition Wars product were decisions made by studio McVey. Jussayin.

huh? None of those complaints were about SMV/SW

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
huh? None of those complaints were about SMV/SW

No. It was a full fledged support of McVey and condemnation of CMoN based on SW, as that's what this thread is about.

Don't like the model material? That was a Studio McVey decision.

Don't like the cardboard material? That was a studio McVey decision.

Don't like the rules? Those were a studio McVey endeavor.

If you want to dislike CMoN, fine. But if it's due to any of those three things, and you're still going to support SMcV, you're a hypocrite.

 Sirius42 wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Did you guys see that apparently, folks asking for refunds were asked to destroy their models?

Quote from one user on October 18th:

Andreas Øwre wrote:i mailed them about 6 hours ago and asked for a full refund. They sent me a confirmation email stating I would get a returnslip and a full refund about an hour later. Glad to be rid of this terrible product. Poor game, poor quality (tiles and cardboard w1, miniatures w2) Post campain customer service however is top notch.

Followed by this on November 13th:

Andreas Øwre wrote:I was just asked to Destroy the contents. And destroy them I will!

Another user from November 5th:

Guillaume Bernard wrote:I just asked a refund and got an answer the same day telling me to destroy my figs to get the refund. Then it took almost 2 weeks to get the refund by paypal.

Guillaume Bernard wrote:They ask for a picture of the destroyed minis.




Must say was a real pleasure doing that, almost cathartic.

I don't know if this is just for overseas backers as both had interesting names. There was one other user who also said they were asked to destroy theirs, but one just 2 days ago said that they were asked to return theirs to the warehouse in the US (and they were in the UK). So, maybe it depends on what the items are- the backer asked to return the models was for wave 3 (I'm assuming that's just some of the exclusives, whereas maybe the others were the base box).

Certainly interesting... I think Andreas is right in the way he characterizes his disappointment- it was with the tiles in wave 1, and the miniatures in wave 2. If you can snag the base box for a deal, or the terrain, I think that'd be very smart imo.

Just to clarify, is this folks requesting a refund for sedition wars stuff? because if so, now that theyve started it could open the flood gates....

Sorry for the long quote, but I think it's needed for context due to page rollover.

And yep! It's from the comments of the Sedition Wars KS where folks were told to destroy their items to get a refund (in some cases). However, one person was seemingly told to return their items, so I don't know if it just depends on the items in question, or your location, etc.

But it's certainly interesting

 cincydooley wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
huh? None of those complaints were about SMV/SW

No. It was a full fledged support of McVey and condemnation of CMoN based on SW, as that's what this thread is about.

Don't like the model material? That was a Studio McVey decision.

Don't like the cardboard material? That was a studio McVey decision.

Don't like the rules? Those were a studio McVey endeavor.

If you want to dislike CMoN, fine. But if it's due to any of those three things, and you're still going to support SMcV, you're a hypocrite.

His criticism of CMoN was about their past, not SW.

And I've never heard anything specifically addressing material (models, tiles) responsibilities/choices, though it's usually the publisher's field. Impossible to say either, as neither company has (AFAIK) said anything about these.

Rules are on both companies' heads, as BBG was brought in by CMoN though the initial rules were hired by SMV, though only SMV is making an effort to improve them.

You can direct complaints about the small scale of a number of wave 2 models at SMV with certainty, as SMV claimed responsibility for, and disappointment at, the results of the smaller sculpts.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Link 2nd post down, by Orlando, if it doesn't snap correctly. I'm surprised it wasn't re-posted here, so quoting:

We are informing you that the products are in design and as presented are not 100% final and that shipping times are an estimate only, and may ship earlier or later. By clicking the "Checkout with PayPal" button below you agree that the final products may differ significantly in name, appearance, composition, color or other material manner, and that the shipping dates may be earlier or later than the provided estimates, and that you also agree that you will not seek a refund or compensation due to these changes. If you do not agree, do not click "Checkout with PayPal" and instead write kickstarter@coolminiornot.com immediately to cancel your pledge for a refund.

Yeah, wow.. those are pretty one sided. "As long as we give you something, anything... our responsibility is met!" I wonder if legally you're bound to those terms if you *DON'T* checkout with paypal and just add nothing during the pledge manager. Either way, it's an incredibly shady set of disclaimer to try and add *AFTER* a campaign has concluded. I don't see a problem writing that on the front page of the kickstarter campaign from a consumer standpoint so if you pledge you know upfront what you're getting yourself into legally but I don't think it's a good idea to try and shoehorn that in after the fact.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Who was interested in bases, again? I haven't been able to swap my set of strain models, so I can make a deal with you for their bases and just donate the minis themselves to the orphanage.

That's me. PM me and we'll talk...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

And I've never heard anything specifically addressing material (models, tiles) responsibilities/choices, though it's usually the publisher's field. Impossible to say either, as neither company has (AFAIK) said anything about these.

Rules are on both companies' heads, as BBG was brought in by CMoN though the initial rules were hired by SMV, though only SMV is making an effort to improve them.

You can direct complaints about the small scale of a number of wave 2 models at SMV with certainty, as SMV claimed responsibility for, and disappointment at, the results of the smaller sculpts.

Both CMON and McVey are (officially, at least) not making any comments on the produciton quality issues with SW. Which makes sense, given that it would be somewhat unprofessional to start finger pointing in public. The result of course, is that the fans of both companies have been finger-pointing back and forth since the stuff started to arrive...

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
.

And I've never heard anything specifically addressing material (models, tiles) responsibilities/choices, though it's usually the publisher's field. Impossible to say either, as neither company has (AFAIK) said anything about these.

Rules are on both companies' heads, as BBG was brought in by CMoN though the initial rules were hired by SMV, though only SMV is making an effort to improve them.

You can direct complaints about the small scale of a number of wave 2 models at SMV with certainty, as SMV claimed responsibility for, and disappointment at, the results of the smaller sculpts.

Check your mail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warboss wrote:


Yeah, wow.. those are pretty one sided. "As long as we give you something, anything... our responsibility is met!" I wonder if legally you're bound to those terms if you *DON'T* checkout with paypal and just add nothing during the pledge manager. Either way, it's an incredibly shady set of disclaimer to try and add *AFTER* a campaign has concluded. I don't see a problem writing that on the front page of the kickstarter campaign from a consumer standpoint so if you pledge you know upfront what you're getting yourself into legally but I don't think it's a good idea to try and shoehorn that in after the fact.

It's basically an additional notation on top of the one that already exists for KS as a whole.

Thanks for the info

I think CMON is asking for proof of destruction for the LE stuff (like the calamity crew) as there's no real point to having it returned as it isn't really saleable

Where they've asked for return it is (I think) for sealed copies of the game (so they will be able to re-sell them)

I just got my box set delivered off ebay and am wondering what all the fuss is about.

The cardstock isn't thin or poor quality, it is super-thick textured board game material, not far off space hulk in terms of thickness. I'm going to mount my paper deadzone mat on it so it won't go to waste (the reports of CMoN requesting destruction of this stuff is a little disturbing, it's all reasonably good stuff that I can find a use for, there's so much waste in society these days.).

And the minis have minimal flash and good detail, it looks like the same stuff that Mantic's newer restic is made out of, that darker kind of restic that holds sharp detail a little better.

The bases are great, they seem to be hard plastic rather than restic.

I have to admit the scale on the minis is a little varied but for my purposes (deadzone plague and Rebs) a rag-tag look is acceptable.

I think I must have got a second print-run retail box or something because I'm not seeing any of the issues that backers have reported.

Either way, a good buy, still up on ebay for £20 too, the seller went "out of stock" on the original listing but then made a new listing with another 100+ boxes: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sedition-Wars-Game-board-game-brand-new-sealed-/141104455474?pt=UK_Toys_Games_Games&hash=item20da7b1f32

I guess that trader must have about 1000 boxes or so bought at next to nothing from CMoN. Possible sign that they're planning on ditching the game? I was really surprised to get a second printing box delivered from a firesale seller, I would have figured CMoN was getting rid of first printing stock.

If you got a second printing the card stock components were improved over what us KS backers got. As was the packaging of the figures.

Since your seller is UK based I wonder if it is studio McVey dumping stock instead of CMON?

The bases are REALLY nice.

 scarletsquig wrote:

I think I must have got a second print-run retail box or something because I'm not seeing any of the issues that backers have reported.

Second print run boxes had all the figures in a plastic tray. Were yours like that?

Ah, no, they were just bagged, which is fine.

Card tiles are definitely the thick ones though.

Maybe there's three printings? KS backers (bad tiles), second (good tiles) and third (good tiles, vacuum packaging)?

Casting quality is ridiculously good on the minis, there are some where it takes a lot of effort to even see the mould line, and all of the sharp edges and corners are really well-defined, closer to what I'd expect from resin than restic.

I have no idea about the game (any really good reviews of just the gameplay out there?), but I'm enjoying the background parts of the rulebook.

I can confirm after speaking with CMON, that they are very sorry about this entire debacle and that they are willing to refund any kickstarter backer who provides photographic evidence of destroying their product.

Just contact them and ask if you can destroy your stuff for a refund like everyone else.

I was a backer, liked my tiles fine- apparently some got damaged in shipping, and the 2nd printing brightened them up, but I never had an issue with the tiles except for warping (which is both common and easily corrected)


I thought the details were very good, but have never found restic very good at doing edges, and can't stand cleaning them (though that's the material and not the casting).

You KS backers should club together, destroy one set of Sedition Wars minis, take photographs of it in various places with various different cameras, lighting etc. and then each use a different photograph of the same pile of destroyed minis.

Then, get your refunds processed, and donate the (still intact) game sets to a local "xmas toys for poor kids" thing just for the sake of flipping the bird at CMoN's nihilistic approach to refunds.

As a poor kid who grew up not really having much in the way of anything there's something about the whole "You can get your money back if you BURN IT ALL" concept that really bothers me. I think they just want to make anyone asking for a refund feel really bad about it.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I can confirm after speaking with CMON, that they are very sorry about this entire debacle and that they are willing to refund any kickstarter backer who provides photographic evidence of destroying their product.

Just contact them and ask if you can destroy your stuff for a refund like everyone else.

Are you serious?

I'll gladly destroy all of my stuff to get a refund.

Do you have an email for where to direct our request towards?

 Alpharius wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I can confirm after speaking with CMON, that they are very sorry about this entire debacle and that they are willing to refund any kickstarter backer who provides photographic evidence of destroying their product.

Just contact them and ask if you can destroy your stuff for a refund like everyone else.

Are you serious?

I'll gladly destroy all of my stuff to get a refund.

Do you have an email for where to direct our request towards?

I'll second that.

A good email address for this would be appreciated.

~Eric

 Taarnak wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I can confirm after speaking with CMON, that they are very sorry about this entire debacle and that they are willing to refund any kickstarter backer who provides photographic evidence of destroying their product.

Just contact them and ask if you can destroy your stuff for a refund like everyone else.

Are you serious?

I'll gladly destroy all of my stuff to get a refund.

Do you have an email for where to direct our request towards?

I'll second that.

A good email address for this would be appreciated.

~Eric

Thirded

 scarletsquig wrote:
You KS backers should club together, destroy one set of Sedition Wars minis, take photographs of it in various places with various different cameras, lighting etc. and then each use a different photograph of the same pile of destroyed minis.

Then, get your refunds processed, and donate the (still intact) game sets to a local "xmas toys for poor kids" thing just for the sake of flipping the bird at CMoN's nihilistic approach to refunds.

As a poor kid who grew up not really having much in the way of anything there's something about the whole "You can get your money back if you BURN IT ALL" concept that really bothers me. I think they just want to make anyone asking for a refund feel really bad about it.

Honestly, unless I knew the specific kids receiving this could handle the figures and game, I see donating it to a 'xmas toys for poor kids' program as a waste. Almost certainly it would cause frustration and get dumped or forgotten quickly. I say that as someone who donates a lot of stuff to programs like that, and who has given away gaming stuff to folks who will use it.

Hey,

Not sure if this is a secret email, but this is the one I use to get help from CMON and they always reply to me within a few days and are very friendly and helpful:

kickstarter@coolminiornot.com

If you send an email to that email, you will get an automated reply with a support ticket #. Just wait a bit and you will be contacted again. Be patient with them, it's not their fault and they will do their best to help you.

Zero

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Hey,

Not sure if this is a secret email, but this is the one I use to get help from CMON and they always reply to me within a few days and are very friendly and helpful:

kickstarter@coolminiornot.com

If you send an email to that email, you will get an automated reply with a support ticket #. Just wait a bit and you will be contacted again. Be patient with them, it's not their fault and they will do their best to help you.

Zero

This is interesting to me. Identify, weren't you like, really upset about this thing earlier?

 cincydooley wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Hey,

Not sure if this is a secret email, but this is the one I use to get help from CMON and they always reply to me within a few days and are very friendly and helpful:

kickstarter@coolminiornot.com

If you send an email to that email, you will get an automated reply with a support ticket #. Just wait a bit and you will be contacted again. Be patient with them, it's not their fault and they will do their best to help you.

Zero

This is interesting to me. Identify, weren't you like, really upset about this thing earlier?

Yep, but the things I have been upset with for the most part were the fault of Studio McVey. I've not had personal issues with CMON or problems with their service and have defended them repeatedly over this year+ long debacle that Sedition Wars was.

The fact that they are willing to refund backers really says something.

 IdentifyZero wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
Hey,

Not sure if this is a secret email, but this is the one I use to get help from CMON and they always reply to me within a few days and are very friendly and helpful:

kickstarter@coolminiornot.com

If you send an email to that email, you will get an automated reply with a support ticket #. Just wait a bit and you will be contacted again. Be patient with them, it's not their fault and they will do their best to help you.

Zero

This is interesting to me. Identify, weren't you like, really upset about this thing earlier?

Yep, but the things I have been upset with for the most part were the fault of Studio McVey. I've not had personal issues with CMON or problems with their service and have defended them repeatedly over this year+ long debacle that Sedition Wars was.

The fact that they are willing to refund backers really says something.

Cool. Really good to hear they took care of you. Doesn't surprise me in the least.

I just destroyed my stuff today. I was going to post the 29 pictures of me burning it all but then I realized, I'd be opening the floodgates to not only people trying to re-use those photos but maybe even.. flaming me?

Meh, I spent around $500 on this. I got right at 330 mini's. It's a $1.52 per model. And that doesn't account for the fact that I've gotten back around $150 so far in exclusive mini's via ebay. So $350 for 300 models (since I sold a fair number). So now I'm down to 1.17 per model. The model quality is actually really good once I get them cleaned and painted. And contrary to some vocal minorities cleaning them didn't take any more effort than my GW figures. Assembly on the bigger models was slightly more annoying but no more so than Forgeworld models.

And I got a ton of awesome dice. And a ton of cool tiles if friends and I ever wanna do a space station rpg.

Does the game itself suck? Kinda. Did I get my value for me out of it. Certainly. I won't be gleefully burning it anytime soon for a refund. But I'm glad that people that were super upset will be able to do so.

I'm not super upset, but I am disappointed, and if showing a picture of me driving over them all gets me a refund - I'll happily take them up on it.

Is there a link to a post somewhere that explains this offer?

For all of the mistakes SMV made, the offer just plain makes me feel bad imagining my own work going out into the world, then having people talk about disliking it enough that they'd rather explode it or w/e than keep it.

I dunno, I understand it from a business perspective, but it evokes the same feeling as those high end clothing companies that would rather destroy their merchandise than allow people to get it for less money. It makes me feel pretty weird about our economy/culture.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
For all of the mistakes SMV made, the offer just plain makes me feel bad imagining my own work going out into the world, then having people talk about disliking it enough that they'd rather explode it or w/e than keep it.

I dunno, I understand it from a business perspective, but it evokes the same feeling as those high end clothing companies that would rather destroy their merchandise than allow people to get it for less money. It makes me feel pretty weird about our economy/culture.

I don't know, I think it is the only way they can prevent themselves from going broke in paying out refunds.

If they said they would refund anyone who wanted a refund, almost anyone who heard they were giving back their money would jump in, if they were really upset about the project or not, and CMON would likely be unable to pay back the majority of the projects funds, as the money was already spent or used to make it.

By making people destroy it, anyone who has any plans to use the figures or is on the fence about the game will likely decide against destroying them, and genuinely dishonest people who just wanted to get their money back to have the game for free would be turned off.

So overall, I think it is a necessary business decision on their part.

As for me, I think I will destroy it, but likely only if I do not have to burn it. I'd rather not shorten my life from toxic plastic fumes to receive back $100...

That's why I mentioned the business perspective bit.

It's actually not going to prevent people from taking advantage of it, anyways, as you could buy a copy at the discounted rates they're going for, and smash that one for a refund and still come out ahead the difference.

I'll be keeping mine. A table set up with all the minatures, tokens, and terrain kit is quite a thing to see.

For all the difficulty in assembling/cleaning, I'm happy. I'm not painting them, or even taking the game rules real seriously. It's just kind of nice to be able to open up a box and have a full 3-D enviroment.

Though it seems less likely people will sell their games off piecemeal if they can get a full refund. Rather unfortunate.

 scarletsquig wrote:
Ah, no, they were just bagged, which is fine.

Card tiles are definitely the thick ones though.

Maybe there's three printings? KS backers (bad tiles), second (good tiles) and third (good tiles, vacuum packaging)?

Casting quality is ridiculously good on the minis, there are some where it takes a lot of effort to even see the mould line, and all of the sharp edges and corners are really well-defined, closer to what I'd expect from resin than restic.

It sounds like your minis were better castings than mine. Every samaritan had a thick mold line (or even mold slip) on his or her helmet, which made cleaning them all a bit of a pain.

All in all, I'm still mostly happy with what I got from this kickstarter. The Vanguard look great. The bases are great. The strain monsters are awesome. However, cleaning all the restic minis and them dealing with restic from Mantic just killed any enthusiasm I had for the medium. Wave 2 wasn't so good, with the poor $10 homage sculpts and the $15 WTF Suit.

And apparently the background pulled a Thomas Riker Problem, which seems to have Kobayashi Maru'ed the promised novel, so I'm all, "Shaka, when the walls fell."

Haven't even looked at the rules really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scarletsquig wrote:
You KS backers should club together, destroy one set of Sedition Wars minis, take photographs of it in various places with various different cameras, lighting etc. and then each use a different photograph of the same pile of destroyed minis.

Then, get your refunds processed, and donate the (still intact) game sets to a local "xmas toys for poor kids" thing just for the sake of flipping the bird at CMoN's nihilistic approach to refunds.

As a poor kid who grew up not really having much in the way of anything there's something about the whole "You can get your money back if you BURN IT ALL" concept that really bothers me. I think they just want to make anyone asking for a refund feel really bad about it.

I thought it was so they could save on shipping. But I like your interpretation better.

Do you think a toy center would be interested in a baggie full of unassembled strain without bases?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


And apparently the background pulled a Thomas Riker Problem, which seems to have Kobayashi Maru'ed the promised novel, so I'm all, "Shaka, when the walls fell."

This is a nerdy ass sentence.

Hehe, ass sentence.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


And apparently the background pulled a Thomas Riker Problem, which seems to have Kobayashi Maru'ed the promised novel, so I'm all, "Shaka, when the walls fell."

This is a nerdy ass sentence.

"Kiteo, his eyes closed"

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


Do you think a toy center would be interested in a baggie full of unassembled strain without bases?

A little baggie of evil space zombies for the green army men to shoot, or for the plastic dinosaurs to eat?

Sure, why not? Beats the crap out of most stocking filler gifts.

In that case, should I just assemble them quickly first so the kids can play with them out of the box? I'm certainly not going to waste my sanity points cleaning them first.


Folks, this might be your last chance to pay me shipping plus a few bucks for some unassembled, baseless strain minis. First PMed, first served. Don't all rush at once. Don't crowd, don't crowd. No shoving.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:


And apparently the background pulled a Thomas Riker Problem, which seems to have Kobayashi Maru'ed the promised novel, so I'm all, "Shaka, when the walls fell."

This is a nerdy ass sentence.

I'm glad you enjoyed all the references.

Much better than the time the dentist tried to get me to see five lights. (Trueish story.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, I know Matthieu was running a gaming club at one of his schools. Maybe I'll see if he wants them, first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

"Kiteo, his eyes closed"

Sokath, his eyes opened!

Understanding is a three-edged sword.

Does anyone know if they are still giving refunds for the destruction of the set?

I have been at college, so have not had the opportunity to destroy the set yet, and they did not respond to my email about alternate destruction methods other than burning...

all you can do is ask, but I'd say you may have waited to long

(and don't destroy anything without an email from CMON confirming they'll refund if you do... you could easily get left with nothing)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
all you can do is ask, but I'd say you may have waited to long

(and don't destroy anything without an email from CMON confirming they'll refund if you do... you could easily get left with nothing)

I'd probably recommend going a step further and not destroying anything until you see a flood of people posting that they actually GOT the refunds rather than just an email "promise".

 General Seric wrote:
Does anyone know if they are still giving refunds for the destruction of the set?

I have been at college, so have not had the opportunity to destroy the set yet, and they did not respond to my email about alternate destruction methods other than burning...

I asked them that question and got an email back asking where I had seen that information. After replying CMON never got back to me so I assuming they aren't doing it and it is just a rumor someone spread

 warboss wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
all you can do is ask, but I'd say you may have waited to long

(and don't destroy anything without an email from CMON confirming they'll refund if you do... you could easily get left with nothing)

I'd probably recommend going a step further and not destroying anything until you see a flood of people posting that they actually GOT the refunds rather than just an email "promise".

Yes, this is why I am asking, as I need to know I will get a refund before destroying it, and I think I have only heard of 1 or 2 people who even attempted to get a refund, and I don't know if either actually did...

and they never responded to my question a few weeks ago about destruction other than burning...

 General Seric wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
all you can do is ask, but I'd say you may have waited to long

(and don't destroy anything without an email from CMON confirming they'll refund if you do... you could easily get left with nothing)

I'd probably recommend going a step further and not destroying anything until you see a flood of people posting that they actually GOT the refunds rather than just an email "promise".

Yes, this is why I am asking, as I need to know I will get a refund before destroying it, and I think I have only heard of 1 or 2 people who even attempted to get a refund, and I don't know if either actually did...

and they never responded to my question a few weeks ago about destruction other than burning...

I got it via email straight from CMON. I've been advised since I have it in writing and I did as they asked and they then did not follow through, they would in fact be guilty of fraud. I'm going to continue to be patient for my refund, but I can say this much: I will be calling the police in January if I don't have my money they promised me back.

Finally received a reply to my question:

Your request (#7251) has been solved. To reopen this request, reply to this email or click the link below:
https://cmon.zendesk.com/requests/7251

Katherine
Katherine Elmore (CoolMiniOrNot)
Dec 13 13:36 (EST)

Hello Chris,

I apologize for the delay in response. We are only offering refunds on destroyed Wave 2 items. We are aware that burning the items would create fumes, and only ask that you physically destroy them in one way or the other. Cutting them would be fine.

Thanks for your Support

So it sounds like they are only refunding the extras that people bought in Wave 2. So, I think this means they are not refunding any of the base pledge for the free Wave 2 items, only the extra money you spent on extras that shipped in Wave 2?

ok I just bought 4 of the base game for under $90 shipped on a whim, and wondering what is wrong with the game and system and is anything salvageable ?

Asterios wrote:
ok I just bought 4 of the base game for under $90 shipped on a whim, and wondering what is wrong with the game and system and is anything salvageable ?

The bases are phenomenal, and some of the figures can be made to look darned good.

 CptJake wrote:

Asterios wrote:
ok I just bought 4 of the base game for under $90 shipped on a whim, and wondering what is wrong with the game and system and is anything salvageable ?

The bases are phenomenal, and some of the figures can be made to look darned good.

yeah the bases intrigued me, but wasn't sure about the game as a whole, and basically paying less then .50 per mini was a good deal in my eyes.

Asterios wrote:
ok I just bought 4 of the base game for under $90 shipped on a whim, and wondering what is wrong with the game and system and is anything salvageable ?

Here's a (blurry) simple hour paint job I did on one of the Samaritan infantrymen models:





They're more than Salvageable.

 cincydooley wrote:

Asterios wrote:
ok I just bought 4 of the base game for under $90 shipped on a whim, and wondering what is wrong with the game and system and is anything salvageable ?

Here's a (blurry) simple hour paint job I did on one of the Samaritan infantrymen models:





They're more than Salvageable.

ok we know the minis are salvageable but what about the game itself, is it any good or ? reason i'm asking is so far it sounds like the PB's RRT game (maybe even worse).

Asterios wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

Asterios wrote:
ok I just bought 4 of the base game for under $90 shipped on a whim, and wondering what is wrong with the game and system and is anything salvageable ?

Here's a (blurry) simple hour paint job I did on one of the Samaritan infantrymen models:





They're more than Salvageable.

ok we know the minis are salvageable but what about the game itself, is it any good or ? reason i'm asking is so far it sounds like the PB's RRT game (maybe even worse).

Now I have never played it....

But from the discussions I remember, mixing a bit of 1st and the 2nd edition rules and it is alright. From what I remember, 1st edition the Samaritans always won, and in 2nd edition the... bad guys always won, which makes it more of a survival horror game.

If you're playing with rules lawyers either version 1 (that the KS backers and original buyers got) or version 2 (which came with the reprint) will grind to a halt with arguments

but I found both versions fun and playable with friends who are happy to house rule over problems

and if you want to improve balance and remove a bunch of inconsitancies/loopholes you can download the most recent rules, faqs, errata here

http://studiomcvey.com/forums/index.php?/forum/13-battle-for-alabaster/

as they've done a lot to improve stuff over time

appreciate the info.

Wow.. this thread popped up again on my subscribed list! Someone should probably change the title as I'm not sure "full of McVey goodness!" characterizes the last 50+ pages of commentary tone.

 cincydooley wrote:

That is nicely done! Buying clearanced box sets just to make an infantry platoon with sweet plastic bases from is not a bad idea

Asterios wrote:
ok I just bought 4 of the base game for under $90 shipped on a whim, and wondering what is wrong with the game and system and is anything salvageable ?

I'm going to break it down, based on the $100+ I spent in the Kickstarter:

Good
- 100 miniatures for $100 is a tremendous value!
- the Miniatures look good! Well-sculpted with nice proportions, nice detail, good use "restic" PVC for undercuts.
- terrain items look great, well-sculpted widgets.
- very good quality generic dice in the box, large and semi-translucent black.
- faction-specific acrylic dice are beautiful.
- gameboards are pretty, 3-D effect.
- techno-virus mechanic is cool.

Bad
- restic PVC is horrible to clean up. It does not file or scrape clean; more difficult for conversions.
- restic PVC warps with heat, so parts are challenging to glue seamlessly.
- many duplicate poses OOTB - need to boil and bend them for some variety.
- terrain kit items are not really obvious what they do.
- double-sided stat cards in lieu of per-side reference sheets
- shield clips and infection clips are fiddly.
- virus tokens are far too big, do not stack nicely
- some people had board warpage issues (I did not)

Ugly
- rules are unclear
- open-ended "exploding" d6 rolls
- variable damage
- 6+ wounds per model
- grossly-unbalanced scenarios
- SMV charged for the "version 2" (v1.1) rulebook, which is now obsolete.

As-is, the Kickstarter game is basically completely unplayable. It's poorly balanced and far too much work to play.

The game needs a re-write with all new stats built around a Space Hulk-like 1d6 mechanic, but it's really not worth the effort to rewrite it.

However, if you were buying lots of minis for a dirt cheap price, then yeah, this can make a nice 40k-like game.

Was there ever a proper reason given as to why they didn't put together a V3 of the rules, with "everything fixed"? (Even in PDF form?)

I think Sedition Wars has so much negative baggage, even a good ruleset wouldn't salvage it.

Better to move on with "the Others", and make that a success. In this case, it could work. McVey is only sculpting. Others are doing production & rules. It's quite heartening that we don't have people doing things that they are known to do badly.

Does that mean the Sedition Wars expansion set is never coming out?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Does that mean the Sedition Wars expansion set is never coming out?

I don't think that's what it means. I think it does mean that there's going to have to be some significant reworking, though.

I'd guess that depends on the success (or not) of The Others,

Sedition Wars has a lot of baggage and a new game is not going to fly off the shelves (or on KS) unless they can make themselves look a lot better than they do now

which is what a successful project (without the complaints about minis/rules/boards etc) will do

if the others works out they can probably afford to go on to SW 2 either as KS or retail (although a KS will still probably not do as well as the original) as they will once again look worth backing

The artwork, story, game components and miniatures for the Sedition Wars follow up are all finished. Some of the miniatures have already been tooled (by Dust Studios), the Gnosis suits were tooled and finished last August for example. The miniatures will be made from the same PVC as the Blood Rage and The Others miniatures (not all are PVC). Expect a reboot with little or no connection to BfA which will remain it's own thing.

At this point it's a matter of timing both Blood Rage and The Others will go out first at the very earliest it could be mid year but it wouldn't surprise me if it slips later into the year.

If SMV is going to do another game, they will need to publish the complete rules beforehand, along with a sample scenario.

They should also target a $80 "sweet spot", as they haven't earned the right to $100 plus S&H.

I'm not sure if SMV really understands just how much ill will is associated with their game. The sheer glee with which people destroyed SedWars stuff to get 90 cents on the dollar, minus fees was palpable. If they don't come in with a big "mea culpa, we'll fix things", I predict the raging mob comes out with torches and pitchforks to burn it down. Heck, even if SMV does everything right, there are going to be a lot burned ex-backers warning potential backers away.

JohnHwangDD - do you know if it is actually confirmed yet that another game is on the way?

I only played a couple of games of SW. A couple of guys at my club really made an effort with it, painting up all of the minis and plastic-coating the cards etc. - as others have said, the game mechanics themselves were certainly lacking something.

But.. got some fantastic looking minis from it, think these are still the best sci-fi zombies around, and they've made their way into special scenarios for other games.

 Pacific wrote:
JohnHwangDD - do you know if it is actually confirmed yet that another game is on the way?

Yes. Definitely more on the way.

If I was a betting man, I'd say anything that McVey has released in resin will see a release in plastic in an upcoming game/expansion.

Pacific, I believe it's been confirmed that there are two new sets down the line: Firebrand (unclear how they'll be released, but one can only assume they don't stay as resin/PDF only when they're done, and a second set of Vanguard vs. Strain, where the minis released implies faster strain and bulkier vanguard. It's unclear what format this will come out in, other than being previewed with room/hallway tile mockups instead of the large squares from the first release.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:

If I was a betting man, I'd say anything that McVey has released in resin will see a release in plastic in an upcoming game/expansion.

Definitely with any of the newer minis since none have been filed under the "numbered edition" category; with the Firebrand, I expect many will see plastic, but some of the old ones might get reworked (ex: the old Vanguard troopers would look fine with the current plastics, but are definitely not all the same).

 Pacific wrote:
JohnHwangDD - do you know if it is actually confirmed yet that another game is on the way?

I only played a couple of games of SW. A couple of guys at my club really made an effort with it, painting up all of the minis and plastic-coating the cards etc. - as others have said, the game mechanics themselves were certainly lacking something.

But.. got some fantastic looking minis from it, think these are still the best sci-fi zombies around, and they've made their way into special scenarios for other games.

Nothing officially announced, no formal launch date or release dates set, so it's not "confirmed" in a strong sense.

My set is roughly 90% built. How I wish I hadn't done that, but had instead taken the time to build something, anything else... Sinking precious time and extra money into SedWars is easily my biggest gaming regret.

The minis are fine, but there are definitely too many duplicates for how few poses there are, and how difficult the stuff is to convert.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
JohnHwangDD - do you know if it is actually confirmed yet that another game is on the way?

Yes. Definitely more on the way.

If I was a betting man, I'd say anything that McVey has released in resin will see a release in plastic in an upcoming game/expansion.

And then some what got released as resin previews is only a fraction of what's done. 60+ new miniatures have been sculpted across the Vanguard, Strain, Firebrand and Bounty Dogs factions. I wouldn't be surprised to see another round of resin previews for Salute this year.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
...with the Firebrand, I expect many will see plastic, but some of the old ones might get reworked (ex: the old Vanguard troopers would look fine with the current plastics, but are definitely not all the same).

I had it confirmed (publicly hence I can mention it there) that there are new Firebrand Conscripts and that all of the resin previews will have plastic versions.

wait the minis in the sedition wars game are made of Resin ? ugh I hate Resin.

Asterios wrote:
wait the minis in the sedition wars game are made of Resin ? ugh I hate Resin.

No, there were a 'plastic resin' or restic material. Studio McVey did release actual resin figures as limited release type items.

McVey sculpts things that he casts in resin.

Those things get converted to injected models for the game, using cheap & crappy "restic" PVC.

Don't worry, you're not getting any resins in any of the SedWars game box sets. You will be getting a pile of PVC minis, probably even cheaper if you wait for it to hit clearance.

I am honestly looking forward to more 'plastic' Sedition Wars minis. I would love it if they did more non humanoid Strain, and toned down the bewbs on the humanoid ones, because they really work as an alien faction that are not just humans with animal heads or point years.

If anyone has some of the plastic drones or bonecrabs from the original KS that they would be willing to trade away, please let me know. I'd love to be able to make a Deadzone sized force out of the AI tank and drones, and perhaps a larger force of the non-human Strain.

On a similar note, can anyone who has any DZC Scourge walkers or prowlers post a picture of them next to a Strain Brimstone or ..uh, leader bug thing...please?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If SMV is going to do another game, they will need to publish the complete rules beforehand, along with a sample scenario.

This is absolutely true - if they want it to be any kind of success. Of course, they might well stick with the arrogant attitude that they had in the previous campaign, so who knows?

 Azazelx wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If SMV is going to do another game, they will need to publish the complete rules beforehand, along with a sample scenario.

This is absolutely true - if they want it to be any kind of success. Of course, they might well stick with the arrogant attitude that they had in the previous campaign, so who knows?

Was there an arrogant attitude?

It's been so long I really can't rightly recall.

It also surprises me because I have trouble seeing Mike McVey be arrogant about anything. I've only met him a handful of times, but he's by far one of the nicest, most humble people I've ever met in this industry.

Normally, I don't like to ascribe to malice where incompetence is adequate; however, SMV is maliciously incompetent at rules-writing.

SMV was exceptionally tight with the rules, forever.

Upon release, there was excellent feedback over how to improve the rules and balance for units and scenarios. Good input on how to clarify things, how to fix things.

SMV arrogantly ignored pretty much all feedback from the backer community. They just steamrolled ahead with the promise of an improved ruleset and all new cards, which basically did nothing helpful - it just swung the pendulum hard to the other side. No changes to any of the other issues, just completely ignored, because SMV obviously knew better.

Minis? Unilateral change in style and scale for Wave 2, such that minis don't even match Wave 1. Not even the fething courtesy to announce the change(s) in the only part of the game that wasn't gak.

Sure, he might be a nice enough guy in person, but corporately? Tone deaf, maliciously arrogant, ignorant, and unappreciative of the handful of people who put in real effort to try and salvage his fething piece of gak game.

I think it's pretty clear that nothing is going to change any of that.....however, I do think it's important to note that the person that wrote the rules (who was NOT Mike, who has always been pretty adamant about having no interest in writing rules) isn't with Studio McVey anymore, so any changes will come from a different group.

Yes, the past is the past, but a simple ruleset wouldn't have been that difficult to assemble, rather than that overcomplicated monstrosity.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yes, the past is the past, but a simple ruleset wouldn't have been that difficult to assemble, rather than that overcomplicated monstrosity.

Please don't think I'm dismissing your critiques; I'm not, and I think they're valid.

I believe, and Dave C can probably give more info here, that any new Sedition Wars released will be the product of an entirely new rules writing team.

We're good, I have no issues with you.

It's good that there will be new rules, but I'm going to need to see and playtest them before I would consider to commit any money.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Minis? Unilateral change in style and scale for Wave 2, such that minis don't even match Wave 1. Not even the fething courtesy to announce the change(s) in the only part of the game that wasn't gak.

This so much. This above all else bothers me beyond belief. I backed the kickstarter originally for the Serenity crew. Wave 1 gave me good vibes on how they'd turn out. When they arrived I wanted to toss them and burn the game.

Sedition Wars was my first KS, and single-handedly scared me away from any further Kickstarters, especially at that price range. In 20 years of minis gameing, this was by far my largest regret. The 2.0 rules were a complete ripoff, even as cheap as they were, they were barely even a change. 90% of the rulebook remained completely unchanged, even typos and errors in the scenarios. That is unacceptable, on top of the horrendous cleaning times required for restic miniatures to even get the game playable.

Definitely a bad rep that was earned.

I just sent off almost all my KS exclusives and extras I bought during the KS yesterday to a buddy. It felt good to see the stuff going to a guy who wanted it and has a use for it.

I love how the final solo rules were released in the fall and CMON still hasn't bothered to post an update to let people know.

Almost 3 years now and just thinking about this project still makes me a little sad.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think Sedition Wars has so much negative baggage, even a good ruleset wouldn't salvage it.

Better to move on with "the Others", and make that a success. In this case, it could work. McVey is only sculpting. Others are doing production & rules. It's quite heartening that we don't have people doing things that they are known to do badly.

McVey didn't do the rules.

Robert Baxter did,

There were literally dozens of people on board game that begged to do proof reading of the rule book (free of charge) and they were blown off repeatedly.

The only other kickstarter I would say I have been disappointed with is Myth (reading the rules is like chewing shoe leather).

One of the biggest disappointments in all this was the attached name of McVey. I wasn't expecting resin quality but was still expecting great quality, something smooth and easy to put on the table. It's like buying a car that has a benz and getting a Kia.

I bought miniatures and got dollar store army men :(

This kickstarter is the Ryan Leaf of kickstarters.

At least I got nice bases.

I feel like this kid

 Piston Honda wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think Sedition Wars has so much negative baggage, even a good ruleset wouldn't salvage it.

McVey didn't do the rules.

Robert Baxter did,

There were literally dozens of people on board game that begged to do proof reading of the rule book (free of charge) and they were blown off repeatedly.

But McVey selected Robert and approved the rules, right? McVey was "in charge", right?

Not just proofing, but playtesting and balancing. For free. And then version 1.01 was simply released out of nowhere, fixing almost none of the things that the players had noted to be problems.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think Sedition Wars has so much negative baggage, even a good ruleset wouldn't salvage it.

McVey didn't do the rules.

Robert Baxter did,

There were literally dozens of people on board game that begged to do proof reading of the rule book (free of charge) and they were blown off repeatedly.

But McVey selected Robert and approved the rules, right? McVey was "in charge", right?

Not just proofing, but playtesting and balancing. For free. And then version 1.01 was simply released out of nowhere, fixing almost none of the things that the players had noted to be problems.

Yes he did, I was emphasizing he did not write the rules himself.

Not sure what Robert Baxter's background is, IIRC he wrote an RPG book for Privateer?

Honestly, When they do the reboot I can't back it. Not after this disaster. It would feel like twice as much for the game that I expected, paying for a game the couldn't get right that should have. Basically paying several hundred bucks to playtest a game that was DOA.

The game wasn't fun, trying to prep the models was far worse. With WoK is anything like SedWars, no more...

 cincydooley wrote:

Was there an arrogant attitude?
It's been so long I really can't rightly recall.
It also surprises me because I have trouble seeing Mike McVey be arrogant about anything. I've only met him a handful of times, but he's by far one of the nicest, most humble people I've ever met in this industry.

I don't know if it was Mike or one of the other Studio McVey guys, but as I recall, it was on/via BGG when people were asking for them to share the rules, and there was refusal along with an "don't you worry, we know what we're doing - it'll all be just fine" attitude. Not dissimilar to Myth later on down the line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
..aaaand it's been fully answered in the interim.

 Piston Honda wrote:
Honestly, When they do the reboot I can't back it. Not after this disaster. It would feel like twice as much for the game that I expected, paying for a game the couldn't get right that should have. Basically paying several hundred bucks to playtest a game that was DOA.

The game wasn't fun, trying to prep the models was far worse. With WoK is anything like SedWars, no more...

I would like to have a functional rulebook for the $130+ that I spent, rather than having all of my time and money amount to nothing. But based on my experience, I'm not backing anything from SMV on a "trust me" or "have faith" basis - they had a shot and didn't deliver. I'm just glad that I didn't spend any money on exclusives or extras, besides the terrain pack.

The terrain pack was pretty well done. Maybe they could have had a few less doors and more of the other stuff, but I am pretty happy with it.

ok got my games and doing a visual inspection of the minis and such and here are my thoughts:

1: big thick cardboard counters, look nice and sturdy but big

2: Cardboard play mats, nice big play mats got 5 in box double sided printed so a nice selection of scenarios you can use.

3: Game Cards nice playing card size and thickness.

4: Dice, uhh they are dice and can be added to my dozens of pounds of dice I already have.

5:The bases if nothing else, the bases made it worth the money I spent on this game, they have nice engraved designs in similar 40K scale and such and debating if I want to even use them on the Sedition Wars minis or for like 40K ?

6: the miniatures, hmm they look simple to build, not many parts, plastic seems like army men quality but not bad, not great, but not bad, my only real complaint about them is their size they are puny or seem puny to me.

7: base bottoms and tokens, n ice tokens and the base bottoms have so many uses for them with the bases in other games.

8: the game box, not sure what 2 box items on the side are for (miniature storage ?), but the art work is ok but mediocre.

9: Rules haven't read the rules yet but for some reason I keep thinking Doom.

I picked up a box of Sedition Wars several months ago - it was cheap and I liked the the whole nanovirus mechanic...

Downloaded the latest version of the rules and cards. Looked at the miniatures and was pretty impressed - until I assembled them...

I am now a fully paid up member of the Restic Haters Club; whilst I can cope with scraping away and dunking a handful of minis in hot water, several dozen of the buggers starts to wear you down.

The game itself was reasonably enjoyable to play, sort of a cross between Space Hulk and Infinity.

Which is the main problem.

Two or three months later, I discovered Infinity.

*poof*

All my Sedition Wars interest vanished, just like that.

The goo mechanic is, by far, the best part of the game.

The minis are great, but yeah, "restic"...

I'm not surprised you jumped to Infinity - it's a better Sci-Fi minis game, with better minis, and far larger player base

yeah,

 CptJake wrote:
The terrain pack was pretty well done. Maybe they could have had a few less doors and more of the other stuff, but I am pretty happy with it.

I bought 1 of everything offered in the KS.
I kept the terrain pack, I traded everything else for a single copy of FFG Horus Heresy - and I think I did well to be rid of the SW

SO in the end I got the HH and a lot of sexy doors, super alien tech, computer terminals and some crates... The SW terrain pack is fething great!
Actually I will keep an eye on SW2 for it's terrain pack!

Panic...

where do I get the updated rules from ?

http://www.coolminiornot.com/images/kickstarter-sw/Alabaster-Rulebook-2ndEd.pdf

thanks Triple9