Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

appreciate the info.

Wow.. this thread popped up again on my subscribed list! Someone should probably change the title as I'm not sure "full of McVey goodness!" characterizes the last 50+ pages of commentary tone.

 cincydooley wrote:

That is nicely done! Buying clearanced box sets just to make an infantry platoon with sweet plastic bases from is not a bad idea

Asterios wrote:
ok I just bought 4 of the base game for under $90 shipped on a whim, and wondering what is wrong with the game and system and is anything salvageable ?

I'm going to break it down, based on the $100+ I spent in the Kickstarter:

Good
- 100 miniatures for $100 is a tremendous value!
- the Miniatures look good! Well-sculpted with nice proportions, nice detail, good use "restic" PVC for undercuts.
- terrain items look great, well-sculpted widgets.
- very good quality generic dice in the box, large and semi-translucent black.
- faction-specific acrylic dice are beautiful.
- gameboards are pretty, 3-D effect.
- techno-virus mechanic is cool.

Bad
- restic PVC is horrible to clean up. It does not file or scrape clean; more difficult for conversions.
- restic PVC warps with heat, so parts are challenging to glue seamlessly.
- many duplicate poses OOTB - need to boil and bend them for some variety.
- terrain kit items are not really obvious what they do.
- double-sided stat cards in lieu of per-side reference sheets
- shield clips and infection clips are fiddly.
- virus tokens are far too big, do not stack nicely
- some people had board warpage issues (I did not)

Ugly
- rules are unclear
- open-ended "exploding" d6 rolls
- variable damage
- 6+ wounds per model
- grossly-unbalanced scenarios
- SMV charged for the "version 2" (v1.1) rulebook, which is now obsolete.

As-is, the Kickstarter game is basically completely unplayable. It's poorly balanced and far too much work to play.

The game needs a re-write with all new stats built around a Space Hulk-like 1d6 mechanic, but it's really not worth the effort to rewrite it.

However, if you were buying lots of minis for a dirt cheap price, then yeah, this can make a nice 40k-like game.

Was there ever a proper reason given as to why they didn't put together a V3 of the rules, with "everything fixed"? (Even in PDF form?)

I think Sedition Wars has so much negative baggage, even a good ruleset wouldn't salvage it.

Better to move on with "the Others", and make that a success. In this case, it could work. McVey is only sculpting. Others are doing production & rules. It's quite heartening that we don't have people doing things that they are known to do badly.

Does that mean the Sedition Wars expansion set is never coming out?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Does that mean the Sedition Wars expansion set is never coming out?

I don't think that's what it means. I think it does mean that there's going to have to be some significant reworking, though.

I'd guess that depends on the success (or not) of The Others,

Sedition Wars has a lot of baggage and a new game is not going to fly off the shelves (or on KS) unless they can make themselves look a lot better than they do now

which is what a successful project (without the complaints about minis/rules/boards etc) will do

if the others works out they can probably afford to go on to SW 2 either as KS or retail (although a KS will still probably not do as well as the original) as they will once again look worth backing

The artwork, story, game components and miniatures for the Sedition Wars follow up are all finished. Some of the miniatures have already been tooled (by Dust Studios), the Gnosis suits were tooled and finished last August for example. The miniatures will be made from the same PVC as the Blood Rage and The Others miniatures (not all are PVC). Expect a reboot with little or no connection to BfA which will remain it's own thing.

At this point it's a matter of timing both Blood Rage and The Others will go out first at the very earliest it could be mid year but it wouldn't surprise me if it slips later into the year.

If SMV is going to do another game, they will need to publish the complete rules beforehand, along with a sample scenario.

They should also target a $80 "sweet spot", as they haven't earned the right to $100 plus S&H.

I'm not sure if SMV really understands just how much ill will is associated with their game. The sheer glee with which people destroyed SedWars stuff to get 90 cents on the dollar, minus fees was palpable. If they don't come in with a big "mea culpa, we'll fix things", I predict the raging mob comes out with torches and pitchforks to burn it down. Heck, even if SMV does everything right, there are going to be a lot burned ex-backers warning potential backers away.

JohnHwangDD - do you know if it is actually confirmed yet that another game is on the way?

I only played a couple of games of SW. A couple of guys at my club really made an effort with it, painting up all of the minis and plastic-coating the cards etc. - as others have said, the game mechanics themselves were certainly lacking something.

But.. got some fantastic looking minis from it, think these are still the best sci-fi zombies around, and they've made their way into special scenarios for other games.

 Pacific wrote:
JohnHwangDD - do you know if it is actually confirmed yet that another game is on the way?

Yes. Definitely more on the way.

If I was a betting man, I'd say anything that McVey has released in resin will see a release in plastic in an upcoming game/expansion.

Pacific, I believe it's been confirmed that there are two new sets down the line: Firebrand (unclear how they'll be released, but one can only assume they don't stay as resin/PDF only when they're done, and a second set of Vanguard vs. Strain, where the minis released implies faster strain and bulkier vanguard. It's unclear what format this will come out in, other than being previewed with room/hallway tile mockups instead of the large squares from the first release.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:

If I was a betting man, I'd say anything that McVey has released in resin will see a release in plastic in an upcoming game/expansion.

Definitely with any of the newer minis since none have been filed under the "numbered edition" category; with the Firebrand, I expect many will see plastic, but some of the old ones might get reworked (ex: the old Vanguard troopers would look fine with the current plastics, but are definitely not all the same).

 Pacific wrote:
JohnHwangDD - do you know if it is actually confirmed yet that another game is on the way?

I only played a couple of games of SW. A couple of guys at my club really made an effort with it, painting up all of the minis and plastic-coating the cards etc. - as others have said, the game mechanics themselves were certainly lacking something.

But.. got some fantastic looking minis from it, think these are still the best sci-fi zombies around, and they've made their way into special scenarios for other games.

Nothing officially announced, no formal launch date or release dates set, so it's not "confirmed" in a strong sense.

My set is roughly 90% built. How I wish I hadn't done that, but had instead taken the time to build something, anything else... Sinking precious time and extra money into SedWars is easily my biggest gaming regret.

The minis are fine, but there are definitely too many duplicates for how few poses there are, and how difficult the stuff is to convert.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
JohnHwangDD - do you know if it is actually confirmed yet that another game is on the way?

Yes. Definitely more on the way.

If I was a betting man, I'd say anything that McVey has released in resin will see a release in plastic in an upcoming game/expansion.

And then some what got released as resin previews is only a fraction of what's done. 60+ new miniatures have been sculpted across the Vanguard, Strain, Firebrand and Bounty Dogs factions. I wouldn't be surprised to see another round of resin previews for Salute this year.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
...with the Firebrand, I expect many will see plastic, but some of the old ones might get reworked (ex: the old Vanguard troopers would look fine with the current plastics, but are definitely not all the same).

I had it confirmed (publicly hence I can mention it there) that there are new Firebrand Conscripts and that all of the resin previews will have plastic versions.

wait the minis in the sedition wars game are made of Resin ? ugh I hate Resin.

Asterios wrote:
wait the minis in the sedition wars game are made of Resin ? ugh I hate Resin.

No, there were a 'plastic resin' or restic material. Studio McVey did release actual resin figures as limited release type items.

McVey sculpts things that he casts in resin.

Those things get converted to injected models for the game, using cheap & crappy "restic" PVC.

Don't worry, you're not getting any resins in any of the SedWars game box sets. You will be getting a pile of PVC minis, probably even cheaper if you wait for it to hit clearance.

I am honestly looking forward to more 'plastic' Sedition Wars minis. I would love it if they did more non humanoid Strain, and toned down the bewbs on the humanoid ones, because they really work as an alien faction that are not just humans with animal heads or point years.

If anyone has some of the plastic drones or bonecrabs from the original KS that they would be willing to trade away, please let me know. I'd love to be able to make a Deadzone sized force out of the AI tank and drones, and perhaps a larger force of the non-human Strain.

On a similar note, can anyone who has any DZC Scourge walkers or prowlers post a picture of them next to a Strain Brimstone or ..uh, leader bug thing...please?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If SMV is going to do another game, they will need to publish the complete rules beforehand, along with a sample scenario.

This is absolutely true - if they want it to be any kind of success. Of course, they might well stick with the arrogant attitude that they had in the previous campaign, so who knows?

 Azazelx wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If SMV is going to do another game, they will need to publish the complete rules beforehand, along with a sample scenario.

This is absolutely true - if they want it to be any kind of success. Of course, they might well stick with the arrogant attitude that they had in the previous campaign, so who knows?

Was there an arrogant attitude?

It's been so long I really can't rightly recall.

It also surprises me because I have trouble seeing Mike McVey be arrogant about anything. I've only met him a handful of times, but he's by far one of the nicest, most humble people I've ever met in this industry.

Normally, I don't like to ascribe to malice where incompetence is adequate; however, SMV is maliciously incompetent at rules-writing.

SMV was exceptionally tight with the rules, forever.

Upon release, there was excellent feedback over how to improve the rules and balance for units and scenarios. Good input on how to clarify things, how to fix things.

SMV arrogantly ignored pretty much all feedback from the backer community. They just steamrolled ahead with the promise of an improved ruleset and all new cards, which basically did nothing helpful - it just swung the pendulum hard to the other side. No changes to any of the other issues, just completely ignored, because SMV obviously knew better.

Minis? Unilateral change in style and scale for Wave 2, such that minis don't even match Wave 1. Not even the fething courtesy to announce the change(s) in the only part of the game that wasn't gak.

Sure, he might be a nice enough guy in person, but corporately? Tone deaf, maliciously arrogant, ignorant, and unappreciative of the handful of people who put in real effort to try and salvage his fething piece of gak game.

I think it's pretty clear that nothing is going to change any of that.....however, I do think it's important to note that the person that wrote the rules (who was NOT Mike, who has always been pretty adamant about having no interest in writing rules) isn't with Studio McVey anymore, so any changes will come from a different group.

Yes, the past is the past, but a simple ruleset wouldn't have been that difficult to assemble, rather than that overcomplicated monstrosity.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yes, the past is the past, but a simple ruleset wouldn't have been that difficult to assemble, rather than that overcomplicated monstrosity.

Please don't think I'm dismissing your critiques; I'm not, and I think they're valid.

I believe, and Dave C can probably give more info here, that any new Sedition Wars released will be the product of an entirely new rules writing team.

We're good, I have no issues with you.

It's good that there will be new rules, but I'm going to need to see and playtest them before I would consider to commit any money.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Minis? Unilateral change in style and scale for Wave 2, such that minis don't even match Wave 1. Not even the fething courtesy to announce the change(s) in the only part of the game that wasn't gak.

This so much. This above all else bothers me beyond belief. I backed the kickstarter originally for the Serenity crew. Wave 1 gave me good vibes on how they'd turn out. When they arrived I wanted to toss them and burn the game.

Sedition Wars was my first KS, and single-handedly scared me away from any further Kickstarters, especially at that price range. In 20 years of minis gameing, this was by far my largest regret. The 2.0 rules were a complete ripoff, even as cheap as they were, they were barely even a change. 90% of the rulebook remained completely unchanged, even typos and errors in the scenarios. That is unacceptable, on top of the horrendous cleaning times required for restic miniatures to even get the game playable.

Definitely a bad rep that was earned.

I just sent off almost all my KS exclusives and extras I bought during the KS yesterday to a buddy. It felt good to see the stuff going to a guy who wanted it and has a use for it.