vipoid wrote: That way I can finally make Doctor Doom and his Doombots.
I have a collection of Doctor Doom/Doom Bots figures from Heroclix and Fistful of Heroes just gathering dust. Fielding them as Necrons could be highly amusing.
In general, rules that saw some thought-work. Not some stupid stuff like Trazyn who got a weapon that only does something against the kind of units it should never engage to begin with.
Sigvatr wrote: In general, rules that saw some thought-work. Not some stupid stuff like Trazyn who got a weapon that only does something against the kind of units it should never engage to begin with.
It's somewhat depressing when you have a HQ who can possess any 'sergeant' or 'special weapon model' (effectively) to come back to life, yet most people's first thought it 'why would I want him back?'.
Also, for a collector of artefacts, it would be nice if he brought a few with him.
Vulgar wrote: Fluff involving the Silent King to be furthered a bit.
More infantry focus play wise, or viability.
A gearset, or specific overlord type (nemesor), that's a backfield buffer, maybe an ordinance shot.
Man, I would love the Silent King to make more of an appearance, or come back as a LoW. I actually really respect him fluff-wise. And how could we be more infantry focused? The depressing thing I've been feeling lately is most of our "supposedly good" shooting comes from standard troops, and Tesla Destructors.
And if they have a generic Bufflord, I will be the happiest person alive. I've actually, admittedly, grown tired of playing Necrons because Overlords have such little you can do with them. Not even just what people SHOULD do with him, he just doesn't have the options to do much. And I feel Necrons lack any real synergy amongst most of their units.
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RunicFIN wrote: I´ve now seen/read rumours stating the book is coming in January, and others saying sooner. Which is it ( if that can be stated for sure anyway ) ?
Well, GW has apparently been a little more airtight with their rumors, so we really have no way of telling, honestly.
Sigvatr wrote: In general, rules that saw some thought-work. Not some stupid stuff like Trazyn who got a weapon that only does something against the kind of units it should never engage to begin with.
That is a good point. I've never been able to use his weapon effectively.
Hopefully the new book will give Necrons some form of focus. Right now, they are all over the place. Are they shooty, are they choppy, are they vehicle heavy, are they elite, are they horde, what are they supposed to be? I'm not saying narrow them down to a single point, but maybe put the focus on a couple of things. That seems to be the way they are doing 7th edition codexes now.
To me, silver tide is the ideal "fluff" build for Necrons. All of the fluff is around vast, unending hordes of robots that just never seem to stay down. Warriors should be in squads of 10 to 30 models.
ClassicCarraway wrote: Hopefully the new book will give Necrons some form of focus. Right now, they are all over the place. Are they shooty, are they choppy, are they vehicle heavy, are they elite, are they horde, what are they supposed to be? I'm not saying narrow them down to a single point, but maybe put the focus on a couple of things. That seems to be the way they are doing 7th edition codexes now.
To me, silver tide is the ideal "fluff" build for Necrons. All of the fluff is around vast, unending hordes of robots that just never seem to stay down. Warriors should be in squads of 10 to 30 models.
I'm guessing the Infinite Phalanx apoc formation will get incorporated into the new codex.
ClassicCarraway wrote: Hopefully the new book will give Necrons some form of focus. Right now, they are all over the place. Are they shooty, are they choppy, are they vehicle heavy, are they elite, are they horde, what are they supposed to be? I'm not saying narrow them down to a single point, but maybe put the focus on a couple of things. That seems to be the way they are doing 7th edition codexes now.
To me, silver tide is the ideal "fluff" build for Necrons. All of the fluff is around vast, unending hordes of robots that just never seem to stay down. Warriors should be in squads of 10 to 30 models.
I'm guessing the Infinite Phalanx apoc formation will get incorporated into the new codex.
Probably won't happen, but I also like the idea of Monoliths becoming a form of drop pod for Necrons. It drops in on Turn 1, can't move after that, but acts as a deployment node for any non-canoptek units in reserve, starting on turn 1. I know they can sort of already be used in that way, but being able to guarantee arrival and deployment on turn 1 is, to me, a good trade off for being immobile (its not like they move that much anyway).
They have to do something to make Monoliths better. I don't care what, I don't care if the go up in points, but they have to get better! They look so friggin cool on the board.
jasper76 wrote: They have to do something to make Monoliths better. I don't care what, I don't care if the go up in points, but they have to get better! They look so friggin cool on the board.
Gauss Flux Arcs become the same statline as a Gauss Blaster. Particle Whip becomes AP2. Special Rule: Advanced Targeting Protocols - Gauss Flux Arcs may still fire at full BS, even if the Particle Whip was fired this turn. Then, take into account whatever they make Living Metal become. Also, allow the portal to not be a shooting attack, but more of an ability, so you can fire it even if you fire Ordnance. Then, increase cost by about 30+ points, and you should be good.
Its mobility is what bothers me. Otherwise perhaps you could have flayed ones actually mildly useful and charging out of it.
Speaking of which, I wonder if and how they're going to solve the Flayed One problem.
Make them I4 and Troops and they wouldn't be terrible.
I still disagree with them being Troops. They're infected with a virus that's making them go insane, therefor, no Overlord would use them to capture objectives. They should still be Elites. It's not like our Elite slot is really crowded with good options right now anyway.
adamsouza wrote: Make them I4 and Troops and they wouldn't be terrible.
I still disagree with them being Troops. They're infected with a virus that's making them go insane, therefor, no Overlord would use them to capture objectives. They should still be Elites. It's not like our Elite slot is really crowded with good options right now anyway.
I concede to your logic about them not being troops.
Initiative 4, Fearless, and a huge maximum squad size (20-30)
adamsouza wrote: Make them I4 and Troops and they wouldn't be terrible.
I still disagree with them being Troops. They're infected with a virus that's making them go insane, therefor, no Overlord would use them to capture objectives. They should still be Elites. It's not like our Elite slot is really crowded with good options right now anyway.
I concede to your logic about them not being troops.
Initiative 4, Fearless, and a huge maximum squad size (20-30)
The Initative I see as unlikely, but would be hella nice to have. Fearless should be an auto include, but I think they would still need a few things. I thought the 6" bubble of -1 LD, combined with Fear, could make them useful for Deep Striking and forcing morale and LD tests a bit easier. Would add more synergy to the army.
I like the idea of flayed ones having the gargoyle rule which lets you regenerate the unit once they are all dead. Make them like zombies that just keep coming.
col_impact wrote: I like the idea of flayed ones having the gargoyle rule which lets you regenerate the unit once they are all dead. Make them like zombies that just keep coming.
While that would be cool in concept, they would still suck at their job.
col_impact wrote: I like the idea of flayed ones having the gargoyle rule which lets you regenerate the unit once they are all dead. Make them like zombies that just keep coming.
While that would be cool in concept, they would still suck at their job.
If they were also troops then that could be enough to see serious play since they deep strike and infiltrate.
As someone pointed out on the last page , fluffwise it doesn't make sense for them to be troops, being crazy and just showing up when they want, or to hold objectives.
adamsouza wrote: As someone pointed out on the last page , fluffwise it doesn't make sense for them to be troops, being crazy and just showing up when they want, or to hold objectives.
Those claws should do something. Didn't they start off as power weapons, back in 3rd ?
Eh, no poison. Doesn't really make sense IMO. And AP3 would be pushing it. They would have to be incredibly expensive per model if that were the case. I'd rather them do something else.
adamsouza wrote: As someone pointed out on the last page , fluffwise it doesn't make sense for them to be troops, being crazy and just showing up when they want, or to hold objectives.
They could have some half-troop status where they can't score objectives themselves but can challenge objectives secured by other troops. Makes them pure disruption units.
adamsouza wrote: As someone pointed out on the last page , fluffwise it doesn't make sense for them to be troops, being crazy and just showing up when they want, or to hold objectives.
They could have some half-troop status where they can't score objectives themselves but can challenge objectives secured by other troops. Makes them pure disruption units.
Ehh, that is a possibility. Give them a special rule like Death Company and Spore Mines that says they cannot score, but in their case, can contest. That would actually fit their fluff very well, and make them decently useful. Dunno if they should be moved to the Troops section though. I feel that having Warriors and Immortals is the backbone of the Necron army, both game and fluff wise.
jasper76 wrote: I'd like a cheap Canoptek troop choice. No Rp, low stat line cheap objective holder
Ummm, I would say Scarabs, but they fit best in Fast Attack. I don't really know what, fluff-wise, would fit in the Troops selection. Since, Canoptek things aren't actually Necrons, but entirely machine. But, I dunno.
Davor wrote: Female Necrons. Something different. Already tired of how all SM are all males. Now Necrons are all males. Be nice to see something that is more than Kill Kill Kill.
Are all Necrons male? Where does it say that? (honest question, I just didn't know this)
Davor wrote: Female Necrons. Something different. Already tired of how all SM are all males. Now Necrons are all males. Be nice to see something that is more than Kill Kill Kill.
Are all Necrons male? Where does it say that? (honest question, I just didn't know this)
They have the generic bodies based on social class.
Lords got nicer, more custom jobs. I don't think it would be out of the question for a Female Lord to have commissioned a female form.
Just saw this model myself and I'm quite tempted to buy one and it as an Overlord
Davor wrote: Female Necrons. Something different. Already tired of how all SM are all males. Now Necrons are all males. Be nice to see something that is more than Kill Kill Kill.
Are all Necrons male? Where does it say that? (honest question, I just didn't know this)
No, there are some female Necrons mentioned in IA12.
Furyou Miko wrote: You can do that with the Maynarkh list, you don't have to upgrade Scarab Swarms to Charnel Scarabs.
With the main codex, I'd like to be able to choose between the machine munching scarabs and the flesh eating variety.
I think it's weird they can chew through ceramite armor and have greater difficulty wounding the flesh underneath. I'd actually prefer scarabs that were good at both, but that would probably bump their points up too much.
Furyou Miko wrote: You can do that with the Maynarkh list, you don't have to upgrade Scarab Swarms to Charnel Scarabs.
With the main codex, I'd like to be able to choose between the machine munching scarabs and the flesh eating variety.
I think it's weird they can chew through ceramite armor and have greater difficulty wounding the flesh underneath. I'd actually prefer scarabs that were good at both, but that would probably bump their points up too much.
A thousand times, this. Give us two options of Scarabs. Plus, your point also brings up another point I like to bring up about inconsistency in this game. Our Gauss rifles can strip a Land Raider with ease, but literally CANNOT touch a Wraithknight, simply because it's not a "vehicle". Something is wrong there.
IHateNids wrote: Ok guys, a friend just pointed out a factor previously overlooked, that the Monolith (RAW) has a DS protection, alongside all other skimmers
There's been an entire thread discussing why, apparently, it doesn't work. I think it does, but most people will argue otherwise. Therefor, no, it doesn't.
A thousand times, this. Give us two options of Scarabs. Plus, your point also brings up another point I like to bring up about inconsistency in this game. Our Gauss rifles can strip a Land Raider with ease, but literally CANNOT touch a Wraithknight, simply because it's not a "vehicle". Something is wrong there.
Yeah,. what's wrong is that when they copy-pasted the Gauss rule from the previous book, they forgot the last sentence that states that it always wounds on a 6 as well.
A thousand times, this. Give us two options of Scarabs. Plus, your point also brings up another point I like to bring up about inconsistency in this game. Our Gauss rifles can strip a Land Raider with ease, but literally CANNOT touch a Wraithknight, simply because it's not a "vehicle". Something is wrong there.
Yeah,. what's wrong is that when they copy-pasted the Gauss rule from the previous book, they forgot the last sentence that states that it always wounds on a 6 as well.
Yeah, would at least help with some things, mainly the Wraithknight.
IHateNids wrote: Ok guys, a friend just pointed out a factor previously overlooked, that the Monolith (RAW) has a DS protection, alongside all other skimmers
There's been an entire thread discussing why, apparently, it doesn't work. I think it does, but most people will argue otherwise. Therefor, no, it doesn't.
Iirc, it's because Deep Striking isn't a move, it's a deployment.
Or something like that, anyway.
Yeah, the same logic that lets Deathmarks use their Hunters from Hyperspace rule when deep striking prevents the Monolith from gaining inherent deepstrike protection.
IHateNids wrote: Ok guys, a friend just pointed out a factor previously overlooked, that the Monolith (RAW) has a DS protection, alongside all other skimmers
There's been an entire thread discussing why, apparently, it doesn't work. I think it does, but most people will argue otherwise. Therefor, no, it doesn't.
Iirc, it's because Deep Striking isn't a move, it's a deployment.
Or something like that, anyway.
It's more that, before you arrive (and have moved) you must mishap. Only one poster was trying to argue that somehow these two events occur St the same time.
Furyou Miko wrote: Yeah, the same logic that lets Deathmarks use their Hunters from Hyperspace rule when deep striking prevents the Monolith from gaining inherent deepstrike protection.
Deathmarks need to not scatter when they deep strike. That would be fluffy.
That is true, it's not really enjoyable when you have mechanics that are ignored by everyone.
Leadership was a big offender in this one: Losing morale is really strong, so most armies are practically immune against it. So why have it in the first place?
In my opinion Deathmarks would be fine if they actually had Interceptor, it would really fit them.
Furyou Miko wrote: Yeah, the same logic that lets Deathmarks use their Hunters from Hyperspace rule when deep striking prevents the Monolith from gaining inherent deepstrike protection.
Deathmarks need to not scatter when they deep strike. That would be fluffy.
I'd only agree to this as long as only THEY get marked, rather then crypteks attached to them with 2+ AP2 flamers.
Problem is, the Abyssal Staff is useless without the cheesy 2+ boost.
Personally, I think the fix for that would be, instead of "wound on a 2+", it was "Rends on a 4+". This A) reduces the need for the flamer because the whole squad is ignoring saves, and B) reduces the impact of the flamer by not having an AP2 weapon that doesn't roll to hit wound on a 2+!
Furyou Miko wrote: Problem is, the Abyssal Staff is useless without the cheesy 2+ boost.
Personally, I think the fix for that would be, instead of "wound on a 2+", it was "Rends on a 4+". This A) reduces the need for the flamer because the whole squad is ignoring saves, and B) reduces the impact of the flamer by not having an AP2 weapon that doesn't roll to hit wound on a 2+!
The abyssal staff is hardly worthless. Its AP1 auto-hit template that IDs T4 models. Very solid tech against horde armies and anything really without a great invul save.
I agree, it's still a good weapon even without wounding on a 2+. Although, I think wounding on a 2+ would be fine were it not for fliers. If it had to deep-strike, then you'd be paying an extra 30ptd for the Veil and you'd have to risk scattering. The problem is when you can use a flier to safely deliver the unit virtually anywhere on the table with negligible risk.
In any case, it might be nice if it was S9 - since there seem to be a lot of high-Ld units around these days.
Also, as an aside, is there any point in the flamer being AP1 when it specifically can't hurt vehicles?
Furyou Miko wrote: Yeah, the same logic that lets Deathmarks use their Hunters from Hyperspace rule when deep striking prevents the Monolith from gaining inherent deepstrike protection.
Deathmarks need to not scatter when they deep strike. That would be fluffy.
I'd only agree to this as long as only THEY get marked, rather then crypteks attached to them with 2+ AP2 flamers.
I specifically never use any Royal Court members with Deathmarks. I don't see how it makes sense fluff wise, and it's dumb IMO. I think they should just remove Deathmarks as a unit that can have them attached.
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vipoid wrote: On the other hand, it might be nice if there was one unit that actually obeyed the deep strike rules.
Considering I've heard people complain that Necrons have so much Deep Striking nonsense, but most other books that can DS things have protection from it, where as we have....hmm....Obyron? Thats it. We have no reduction to scatter, but have a good bit of Deep Striking. But the second we get something like that, everyone complains because only Imperium armies are allowed to have advanced DS-protection technology. Makes perfect sense to me.
Considering I've heard people complain that Necrons have so much Deep Striking nonsense, but most other books that can DS things have protection from it, where as we have....hmm....Obyron? Thats it. We have no reduction to scatter, but have a good bit of Deep Striking. But the second we get something like that, everyone complains because only Imperium armies are allowed to have advanced DS-protection technology. Makes perfect sense to me.
When I said that it would be nice if there was one unit that actually obeyed the DS rules, I actually meant one unit in the game.
It seems like every single sodding race has ways to just ignore the DS and/or Reserve rules - to the point where they seem more like a 'not-being-marines' tax on the few armies that don't have those methods.
I mean, we have utter nonsense drop pods - that can arrive automatically turn 1, can't scatter onto anything dangerous and let their contents move 6" after it deploys (otherwise, they might scatter out of melta range - the horror!). Space Wolves can bring in reserves automatically, GK formation lets them reduce scatter, even the new DE have an item that lets a unit deep strike without error.
I'd like to see this nonsense get removed, rather than every codex adding to it.
Furyou Miko wrote: Problem is, the Abyssal Staff is useless without the cheesy 2+ boost.
Personally, I think the fix for that would be, instead of "wound on a 2+", it was "Rends on a 4+". This A) reduces the need for the flamer because the whole squad is ignoring saves, and B) reduces the impact of the flamer by not having an AP2 weapon that doesn't roll to hit wound on a 2+!
The abyssal staff is hardly worthless. Its AP1 auto-hit template that IDs T4 models. Very solid tech against horde armies and anything really without a great invul save.
It wounds against Leadership, so it would only Instant Death LD4 models, and anything it's worth using on, it's wounding on 5+ or 6+ natively.
Considering I've heard people complain that Necrons have so much Deep Striking nonsense, but most other books that can DS things have protection from it, where as we have....hmm....Obyron? Thats it. We have no reduction to scatter, but have a good bit of Deep Striking. But the second we get something like that, everyone complains because only Imperium armies are allowed to have advanced DS-protection technology. Makes perfect sense to me.
When I said that it would be nice if there was one unit that actually obeyed the DS rules, I actually meant one unit in the game.
It seems like every single sodding race has ways to just ignore the DS and/or Reserve rules - to the point where they seem more like a 'not-being-marines' tax on the few armies that don't have those methods.
I mean, we have utter nonsense drop pods - that can arrive automatically turn 1, can't scatter onto anything dangerous and let their contents move 6" after it deploys (otherwise, they might scatter out of melta range - the horror!). Space Wolves can bring in reserves automatically, GK formation lets them reduce scatter, even the new DE have an item that lets a unit deep strike without error.
I'd like to see this nonsense get removed, rather than every codex adding to it.
Problem is deep striking is so horrifically bad if you need to actually do things, without the pinpoint precision it basically amounts to "How many points do you want to die or be tied up all game?"
Chaos daemons had an entire army of deep striking and were considered the bottom of the totem pole for years as a showing of how bad deep strike is and has been.
Problem is deep striking is so horrifically bad if you need to actually do things, without the pinpoint precision it basically amounts to "How many points do you want to die or be tied up all game?"
So then they should fix the deep-strike rules - not just give some armies the ability to ignore the DS rules, whilst others just get given a middle finger.
I would like Triarch Stalkers to have Dreadnuaght close combat weapons. Those front legs are huge, and should be good at impaling squishy flesh bag things that stand in it's way.
adamsouza wrote: How about a Canoptek Super Heavy that spits out Canoptek Spyders, like Spyders spawn scarabs ?
Think about it GW, a $140 model that spawns $33 model that spawn models from a $36.25 box set.
A Spyder farm would require at least 5-14 spyders and more scarabs than I care to count
That is almost as genius as adding daemon summoning to the game!
Oooooh, make it able to ally with other armies like the knights can and BOOM! Creed is taking notes on your marketing genius!
It could look like one of those giant nasty bugs from starship troopers that shoots into space, but all necrony.
Why not give nights scythes a -6 to deep strike scatter roll? I mean, they do have a freaky teleporter thing on them, that has to count for something. Would be kind of fun to see some necron units having a deep strike rule. Wishlisting out the butt, but here it goes.
"This is our world"
Necron's with this special rule have the "deep strike" special rule. Furthermore, if a necron enters play using this special rule, they cannot scatter onto units or terrain, instead they arrive 1" away from them (just like drop pods) Units that have arrived like this have shrouded on the turn they arrive.
That would represent the battlefield being a tomb world, and necrons just popping up all over... though I am not sure if that is in the fluff anymore. Could be fun, maybe not the most practical, but fun.
@vipoid: Well, it would make them nigh invincible against poison-heavy armies.
Don't Dark Eldar and Nurgle Daemons sort of rely on poison?
Believe me...I'm open to the idea! Nothing would make me smile bigger than the first time someone tried to wound me with a S1 Poison 2+ weapon, and I get to say "Nuh-uh".
You mean besides the fact that poisons also includes Acids?
Oh no! In 5-7 days, My Necrons could be in real trouble.
Okay then, a Chaos Heratek has invented an AI scrambling virus that can penetrate through Necron's, they can now be controlled by the opposing army because they now see the Chaos Lord as their Overlord.
Okay then, a Chaos Heratek has invented an AI scrambling virus that can penetrate through Necron's, they can now be controlled by the opposing army because they now see the Chaos Lord as their Overlord.
Um... Necron Firewall?
nosferatu1001 wrote: Vipoid - which GK formation reduces scatter? They can battle focus when they drop, but that's all I saw.
I might have been thinking of their Warlord Trait that lets them auto-arrive and reroll the deep strike result.
I could have sworn they had something that reduced scatter, but I don't have the book handy to check.
Okay then, a Chaos Heratek has invented an AI scrambling virus that can penetrate through Necron's, they can now be controlled by the opposing army because they now see the Chaos Lord as their Overlord.
Um... Necron Firewall?
nosferatu1001 wrote: Vipoid - which GK formation reduces scatter? They can battle focus when they drop, but that's all I saw.
I might have been thinking of their Warlord Trait that lets them auto-arrive and reroll the deep strike result.
I could have sworn they had something that reduced scatter, but I don't have the book handy to check.
Yep, the trait allows a reroll, but has no protection in terms of reducing deepstrike (no 1D6 less, or intertial guidance style), however there is nothing that lets them reduce scatter bar teleport homers.
Furyou Miko wrote: 'crons don't even get teleport homers, except for Imotekh's Bloodswarm.
But that one is so amazing that we don't need any others.
I mean, for a start, it works with Flayed Ones (easily the strongest unit in the codex). And then, you have the fact that it's entirely random. Now, some people might consider this a down-side (because if removes any element of strategy or tactics), but what do they know? Really, it's a blessing because it means your opponent can't predict Imhotekh's strategy. Therefore, you can Forge the Narrative flawlessly.
Would be funny to just make alllll necrons units a vehicles with Av8 1 hp
I think a better idea would be to just remove all this 'AV' nonsense, and have everything use toughness and saves.
You could then add a 'unliving' or 'construct' rule to all vehicles and the like, which makes them immune to poison but perhaps susceptible to other weapons (like Haywire).
Would be funny to just make alllll necrons units a vehicles with Av8 1 hp
I think a better idea would be to just remove all this 'AV' nonsense, and have everything use toughness and saves.
You could then add a 'unliving' or 'construct' rule to all vehicles and the like, which makes them immune to poison but perhaps susceptible to other weapons (like Haywire).
Furyou Miko wrote: 'crons don't even get teleport homers, except for Imotekh's Bloodswarm.
But that one is so amazing that we don't need any others.
I mean, for a start, it works with Flayed Ones (easily the strongest unit in the codex). And then, you have the fact that it's entirely random. Now, some people might consider this a down-side (because if removes any element of strategy or tactics), but what do they know? Really, it's a blessing because it means your opponent can't predict Imhotekh's strategy. Therefore, you can Forge the Narrative flawlessly.
Overall meh, but perfectly DS'ing units of 20 anything is pretty humorous. Plus, it's not like Flayed Ones are as bad as Praetorians or Lychguard.
Furyou Miko wrote: 'crons don't even get teleport homers, except for Imotekh's Bloodswarm.
But that one is so amazing that we don't need any others.
I mean, for a start, it works with Flayed Ones (easily the strongest unit in the codex). And then, you have the fact that it's entirely random. Now, some people might consider this a down-side (because if removes any element of strategy or tactics), but what do they know? Really, it's a blessing because it means your opponent can't predict Imhotekh's strategy. Therefore, you can Forge the Narrative flawlessly.
Overall meh, but perfectly DS'ing units of 20 anything is pretty humorous. Plus, it's not like Flayed Ones are as bad as Praetorians or Lychguard.
Flayed Ones are as bad. Very much so. Lychguard would see more play if they were cheaper for what they are currently, and Praetorians just need to be cheaper and have a few more attacks. Flayed Ones....even if they made them cheaper they would still be borderline useless.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Overall meh, but perfectly DS'ing units of 20 anything is pretty humorous. Plus, it's not like Flayed Ones are as bad as Praetorians or Lychguard.
I don't see what makes them better. They're not survivable, they're not Fearless, they strike at I2 with no useful melee weapons whatsoever, and a single IG sentinel can tie up said unit of 20 for the entire game.
Also, their combat ability is equivalent to a unit of Necron Warriors rapid-firing into the same target but minus Gauss. So, you have an elite unit that needs to get into melee in order to ape the damage that one of your troop squads can inflict at range.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Overall meh, but perfectly DS'ing units of 20 anything is pretty humorous. Plus, it's not like Flayed Ones are as bad as Praetorians or Lychguard.
I don't see what makes them better. They're not survivable, they're not Fearless, they strike at I2 with no useful melee weapons whatsoever, and a single IG sentinel can tie up said unit of 20 for the entire game.
Also, their combat ability is equivalent to a unit of Necron Warriors rapid-firing into the same target but minus Gauss. So, you have an elite unit that needs to get into melee in order to ape the damage that one of your troop squads can inflict at range.
I'm expecting a nerf and a backlash to rival the Grey Knights new dex. They're leveling the playing field now.
Look at the Orks. Their old codex's power level was pretty much where the designers wanted, so they got a SLIGHTLY better codex (which is pretty decent). But, the necrons level is up there a bit and has for a while. They could fix Flayed Ones etc, but expect to lose a few of your toys.
Grey Knight Janitor wrote: I'm expecting a nerf and a backlash to rival the Grey Knights new dex. They're leveling the playing field now.
Look at the Orks. Their old codex's power level was pretty much where the designers wanted, so they got a SLIGHTLY better codex (which is pretty decent). But, the necrons level is up there a bit and has for a while. They could fix Flayed Ones etc, but expect to lose a few of your toys.
They would have to fix more than just Flayed Ones, otherwise we won't have any toys left that are usable. That's the predicament that the current codex is in. There's only like, 2 builds of like, 4 different units that are even worth their salt against every other army. Everything else is just pretty bad or too expensive. That's why Necrons don't have many viable options currently.
Grey Knight Janitor wrote: I'm expecting a nerf and a backlash to rival the Grey Knights new dex. They're leveling the playing field now.
Look at the Orks. Their old codex's power level was pretty much where the designers wanted, so they got a SLIGHTLY better codex (which is pretty decent). But, the necrons level is up there a bit and has for a while. They could fix Flayed Ones etc, but expect to lose a few of your toys.
Up where? Up in the 55% win-rate?
I wouldn't really call that 'up there a bit' and thus I wouldn't expect too many nerfs.
krodarklorr wrote: They would have to fix more than just Flayed Ones, otherwise we won't have any toys left that are usable. That's the predicament that the current codex is in. There's only like, 2 builds of like, 4 different units that are even worth their salt against every other army. Everything else is just pretty bad or too expensive. That's why Necrons don't have many viable options currently.
I'm forced to agree. The internal balance wasn't particularly good when the book was made, but now it's just abysmal.
We have maybe 1 decent Elite choice, 2 Good FA and maybe 1 HS. It's only really HQ that has a decent selection of usable units (which certainly doesn't include most of the characters).
Then you have the fact that half our wargear is just outright outclassed by the other half. What would you take - a Warscythe or a Voidblade? MSS or a Tesseract Labyrinth? Phylactery or... anything else really? Frankly, you could offer me the opportunity to pay 15pts just to mash my hand with a mallet, and I'd probably still choose it over Phylactery.
Probably the worst part though is that the 10% of our book that's actually usable is also too strong in places - so I have a bad feeling GW will just nerf everything as a precaution.
krodarklorr wrote: They would have to fix more than just Flayed Ones, otherwise we won't have any toys left that are usable. That's the predicament that the current codex is in. There's only like, 2 builds of like, 4 different units that are even worth their salt against every other army. Everything else is just pretty bad or too expensive. That's why Necrons don't have many viable options currently.
I'm forced to agree. The internal balance wasn't particularly good when the book was made, but now it's just abysmal.
We have maybe 1 decent Elite choice, 2 Good FA and maybe 1 HS. It's only really HQ that has a decent selection of usable units (which certainly doesn't include most of the characters).
Then you have the fact that half our wargear is just outright outclassed by the other half. What would you take - a Warscythe or a Voidblade? MSS or a Tesseract Labyrinth? Phylactery or... anything else really? Frankly, you could offer me the opportunity to pay 15pts just to mash my hand with a mallet, and I'd probably still choose it over Phylactery.
Probably the worst part though is that the 10% of our book that's actually usable is also too strong in places - so I have a bad feeling GW will just nerf everything as a precaution.
And I am forced to agree with you as well, ha. Hence why I'm looking forward to/dreading the new book. I feel it may stop me from playing my Necrons...
Hey guys, I'm in the middle of writing up my own fan-made Necron codex for 7th ed. But I have no idea what kind of relics we could possibly have. What would you guys like to see as far as Relics?
- MSS (if you want to keep their current effect, but limit their availability in the army).
- The Black Gauntlets - Gauntlets of Fire, but with Rending on both melee and flamer attacks. Also, count as a pair of CCWs.
- Warscythe with built-in Gauss Blaster.
- Charged Staff of Light - same as a Staff of Light, but counts as a Power Axe in combat (or perhaps a Power Sword?)
- Phylactery - Lord has IWND and passes his first RP roll on a 2+ (is that too good?)
- Phase-generator core - Lord has a 3++ save and ignores terrain.
- Advanced Chassis - Lord gains +1W and EW.
- Holographic Terrain Generator - Lord and any unit he joins have the Stealth special rule.
- Liquid Flux Capacitor - At the beginning of each Necron turn, choose one of the following: +1WS, +1BS, +1S, +2I, or +1A. The Lord gains the selected bonus until the start of your next turn.
- Adaptive Photosensors - Lord is immune to Blind. In addition, the Lord (and any unit he joins) gains Night Vision.
vipoid wrote: Well, some possibilities off the top of my head:
- MSS (if you want to keep their current effect, but limit their availability in the army).
- The Black Gauntlets - Gauntlets of Fire, but with Rending on both melee and flamer attacks. Also, count as a pair of CCWs.
- Warscythe with built-in Gauss Blaster.
- Charged Staff of Light - same as a Staff of Light, but counts as a Power Axe in combat (or perhaps a Power Sword?)
- Phylactery - Lord has IWND and passes his first RP roll on a 2+ (is that too good?)
- Phase-generator core - Lord has a 3++ save and ignores terrain.
- Advanced Chassis - Lord gains +1W and EW.
- Holographic Terrain Generator - Lord and any unit he joins have the Stealth special rule.
- Liquid Flux Capacitor - At the beginning of each Necron turn, choose one of the following: +1WS, +1BS, +1S, +2I, or +1A. The Lord gains the selected bonus until the start of your next turn.
- Adaptive Photosensors - Lord is immune to Blind. In addition, the Lord (and any unit he joins) gains Night Vision.
Any of these useful?
Well, for the most part, most of the wargear, as it is now, stayed the same. The Phylactery I made 5 points more expensive, but it allows you to automatically pass your first RP roll and come back with one additional wound.
MSS I changed to be more expensive, and instead of attacking themselves, they lose a d3 attacks that phase.
All the other ones are actually pretty neat idea that I would not have thought of. >.<
vipoid wrote: Well, some possibilities off the top of my head:
- MSS (if you want to keep their current effect, but limit their availability in the army).
- The Black Gauntlets - Gauntlets of Fire, but with Rending on both melee and flamer attacks. Also, count as a pair of CCWs.
- Warscythe with built-in Gauss Blaster.
- Charged Staff of Light - same as a Staff of Light, but counts as a Power Axe in combat (or perhaps a Power Sword?)
- Phylactery - Lord has IWND and passes his first RP roll on a 2+ (is that too good?)
- Phase-generator core - Lord has a 3++ save and ignores terrain.
- Advanced Chassis - Lord gains +1W and EW.
- Holographic Terrain Generator - Lord and any unit he joins have the Stealth special rule.
- Liquid Flux Capacitor - At the beginning of each Necron turn, choose one of the following: +1WS, +1BS, +1S, +2I, or +1A. The Lord gains the selected bonus until the start of your next turn.
- Adaptive Photosensors - Lord is immune to Blind. In addition, the Lord (and any unit he joins) gains Night Vision.
Any of these useful?
Well, for the most part, most of the wargear, as it is now, stayed the same. The Phylactery I made 5 points more expensive, but it allows you to automatically pass your first RP roll and come back with one additional wound.
MSS I changed to be more expensive, and instead of attacking themselves, they lose a d3 attacks that phase.
All the other ones are actually pretty neat idea that I would not have thought of. >.<
I also had some ideas: -A long-range sniper with Entropic Strike. -Mini-Lightning Storm, like from the Damnos Formation. -Tesla + Haywire-weapon -Phylactery that also let's you reroll Everliving. -6" Resurrection Orb -Obyron's Mantle as a Relic?
I don't think a MSS-relic should be nerfed or reduced in price, probably even buffed so it's actually useful in games where your opponent knows the rules Like a MSS that can't be countered by 'abusing' B2B or the order of challenges/MSS.
vipoid wrote: Well, some possibilities off the top of my head:
- MSS (if you want to keep their current effect, but limit their availability in the army).
- The Black Gauntlets - Gauntlets of Fire, but with Rending on both melee and flamer attacks. Also, count as a pair of CCWs.
- Warscythe with built-in Gauss Blaster.
- Charged Staff of Light - same as a Staff of Light, but counts as a Power Axe in combat (or perhaps a Power Sword?)
- Phylactery - Lord has IWND and passes his first RP roll on a 2+ (is that too good?)
- Phase-generator core - Lord has a 3++ save and ignores terrain.
- Advanced Chassis - Lord gains +1W and EW.
- Holographic Terrain Generator - Lord and any unit he joins have the Stealth special rule.
- Liquid Flux Capacitor - At the beginning of each Necron turn, choose one of the following: +1WS, +1BS, +1S, +2I, or +1A. The Lord gains the selected bonus until the start of your next turn.
- Adaptive Photosensors - Lord is immune to Blind. In addition, the Lord (and any unit he joins) gains Night Vision.
Any of these useful?
Well, for the most part, most of the wargear, as it is now, stayed the same. The Phylactery I made 5 points more expensive, but it allows you to automatically pass your first RP roll and come back with one additional wound.
MSS I changed to be more expensive, and instead of attacking themselves, they lose a d3 attacks that phase.
All the other ones are actually pretty neat idea that I would not have thought of. >.<
I also had some ideas:
-A long-range sniper with Entropic Strike.
-Mini-Lightning Storm, like from the Damnos Formation.
-Tesla + Haywire-weapon
-Phylactery that also let's you reroll Everliving.
-6" Resurrection Orb
-Obyron's Mantle as a Relic?
I don't think a MSS-relic should be nerfed or reduced in price, probably even buffed so it's actually useful in games where your opponent knows the rules Like a MSS that can't be countered by 'abusing' B2B or the order of challenges/MSS.
Yeah, I hate that MSS can be ignored so easily, yet people still complain about it. But everyone thinks the 6" Rez orb is gonna happen, and it makes sense. But an Obyron's Mantle equivalent? I'd be okay with that. Or Orikan's Staff as a Relic.
adamsouza wrote: I'd be happy is Mind Shackle Scarabs were dumbed down to a Hammer of Wrath Attack with the Ablative Strike Special Rule.
Ehh, no. That has no flavor at all, and wouldn't benefit us at all in CC. In fact, no one would probably take it.
While I agree it may not be as popular, I disagree about it not having flavor.
Tiny Scarabs swarming the opponent and stripping his armor is very Necron to me.
I'm pretty sure the book is already written, printed, and sittiing in a warehouse collecting dust waiting to be released at this point, so I'm sure we are safe no one at GW will take my suggestion.
adamsouza wrote: I'd be happy is Mind Shackle Scarabs were dumbed down to a Hammer of Wrath Attack with the Ablative Strike Special Rule.
Ehh, no. That has no flavor at all, and wouldn't benefit us at all in CC. In fact, no one would probably take it.
While I agree it may not be as popular, I disagree about it not having flavor.
Tiny Scarabs swarming the opponent and stripping his armor is very Necron to me.
I'm pretty sure the book is already written, printed, and sittiing in a warehouse collecting dust waiting to be released at this point, so I'm sure we are safe no one at GW will take my suggestion.
Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
The same "techonologically most advanced" race in the universe that puts robots into AI-controlled vehicles and has all vehicles being open-topped?
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
The same "techonologically most advanced" race in the universe that puts robots into AI-controlled vehicles and has all vehicles being open-topped?
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
The same "techonologically most advanced" race in the universe that puts robots into AI-controlled vehicles and has all vehicles being open-topped?
Technologically advanced =/= common sense or good.
Touch pads are an example of this.
Very techy, less ergonomic than a solid interface. Given the choice between a Keyboard + Mouse and a touchpad, I will always choose the former.
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
The same "techonologically most advanced" race in the universe that puts robots into AI-controlled vehicles and has all vehicles being open-topped?
Technologically advanced =/= common sense or good.
Touch pads are an example of this.
Very techy, less ergonomic than a solid interface.
Given the choice between a Keyboard + Mouse and a touchpad, I will always choose the former.
That would be cool if Living metal removed the additional +1 to the Damage chart for being Open Topped...
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
The same "techonologically most advanced" race in the universe that puts robots into AI-controlled vehicles and has all vehicles being open-topped?
Technologically advanced =/= common sense or good.
Touch pads are an example of this.
Very techy, less ergonomic than a solid interface.
Given the choice between a Keyboard + Mouse and a touchpad, I will always choose the former.
That would be cool if Living metal removed the additional +1 to the Damage chart for being Open Topped...
Or if living metal gave necron vehicles "It Will Not Die".
Or if living metal gave necron vehicles "It Will Not Die".
That's what most people I've seen think it will become. It makes sense, but honestly I would come to miss the ignoring Crew shaken and stunned on the Monolith and Doom Scythe.
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
The same "techonologically most advanced" race in the universe that puts robots into AI-controlled vehicles and has all vehicles being open-topped?
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
The same "techonologically most advanced" race in the universe that puts robots into AI-controlled vehicles and has all vehicles being open-topped?
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
The same "techonologically most advanced" race in the universe that puts robots into AI-controlled vehicles and has all vehicles being open-topped?
The being open-topped is part of being technologically advanced. Their vehicles are protected by force fields that are better than physical armor. They don't need armor.
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
The same "techonologically most advanced" race in the universe that puts robots into AI-controlled vehicles and has all vehicles being open-topped?
The being open-topped is part of being technologically advanced. Their vehicles are protected by force fields that are better than physical armor. They don't need armor.
So like a weaker serpent shield
On a related note, in every single codex regardless of whether I play them or not I like to look at relics and if there are any cool ones I buy a HQ and model it on, so I'm hoping for some wicked relics.
What rumours?
I think we can learn what to expect with the release of Exterminatus, since there are Traits, Relics and Formations for Necrons in there.
krodarklorr wrote: So, the codex is RIGHT around the corner guys, what are your thoughts with the current rumors?
I fear I haven't seen any such rumours. Do you have a link?
In any case, regardless of what those rumours say, I am preparing myself for disappointment.
Twice I have allowed myself to get hyped and optimistic about a release - first with the new nid book. and then with the new DE book. Both times I have been sorely disappointed.
So, this time, I am choosing to believe that I will be disappointed by the new book. If I am, well, no surprise there. And, if not, we'll have an enjoyable book.
Formosa wrote: I know this will be contentious but I want a steep power decline, this will bring it in line with the other 7th books, like I said, contentious
To be fair, only a few things (Destroyer Lords, Wraiths, some of the Vehicles) really need to go down in power.
A lot of other stuff is in dire need of a boost in power to bring them up to the 7th edition books.
Although, I guess it depends what level we're really bringing them to. Are we bringing them to the level of GKs with Librarian, Draigo, Terminators and DK spam? or the level of, say, DE Wych Cult units? Because, that's a pretty vast gulf in power levels.
Fair point, I should have been clearer, I mean bring them in line with the general power of marines and guard etc.
I know that you will always get those armies and units that are stupid, but generally codex marines and all the 7th books have been pretty balanced.... Generally
krodarklorr wrote: So, the codex is RIGHT around the corner guys, what are your thoughts with the current rumors?
I fear I haven't seen any such rumours. Do you have a link?
In any case, regardless of what those rumours say, I am preparing myself for disappointment.
Twice I have allowed myself to get hyped and optimistic about a release - first with the new nid book. and then with the new DE book. Both times I have been sorely disappointed.
So, this time, I am choosing to believe that I will be disappointed by the new book. If I am, well, no surprise there. And, if not, we'll have an enjoyable book.
I'm preparing for disappointment as well, although some, and I say SOME of the rumors would be nice. Here is what Faeit 212 says:
Codex Necrons:
Schedule
Crammed into the GW schedule right before the new year.
Pre-orders Dec. 19th
Street date: Dec 26th
Models
Little to no new models (a la Grey Knights)
Rules
Look for Nerfs to the following:
Doom Scythes
Night Scythes
Tesla will get an overhaul to their rules.
Deathray will receive a big overhaul to how it targets models.
Characters remain fundamentally unchanged.
The Stormlord will recieve a Necron themed orbital bombardment of some type once per game.
Warlord Traits are good with some granting individual units USRs, while another listed granted an improved version of Reanimation Protocols
Standard caveats apply, but this is from a very reliable anonymous source.
Formosa wrote: I know this will be contentious but I want a steep power decline, this will bring it in line with the other 7th books, like I said, contentious
I my personal opinion, if they make Necrons like the Ork codex, or the Space Wolves codex, I'll be happy. The main issue I have is the lack of flavor, and most units are not fieldable. I look at every other book and see a lot of flavor and different things you could do (Whether or not the "internet" says they're worth doing). I just want some more special rules and reasons to take other, less used units over other options,
But yes, some thing need to be toned down. Obviously Night Scythes (Not Doom Scythes. 175 points for an 11 armored vehicle with 2 guns is pretty reasonable), the CCB, Wraiths, and Tesla need to be brought in line and fixed and/or nerfed somewhat.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martel732 wrote: As a BA player, I'm hoping for nerfs. It's time to join the rest of us, Necrons, sorry!
Eeeehhh, nerf us all you want, but give us things to fight back against things. Oh, is that a vehicle? Shoot it with Gauss. Oh, is that an MC? Deathmarks. Is it anything else? Just shoot it with Gauss.......nothing ever changes. I just want options, damnit.
Models
Little to no new models (a la Grey Knights) Well, at least we shouldn't be losing characters. Though, it's kinda depressing when that's a positive trait, as opposed to standard practice.
Rules
Look for Nerfs to the following:
Doom Scythes Eh? Are these things OP right now?
Night Scythes Understandable
Tesla will get an overhaul to their rules. I'm having a premonition... I see a word... the word is "Soulfire"... that mean anything to anyone?
Deathray will receive a big overhaul to how it targets models.
Characters remain fundamentally unchanged. Oh goody. If there was anything that really made me love the Necron codex, it was characters who might as well be walking bricks. I enjoy more opportunities to bump into my enemies and mildly inconvenience them.
The Stormlord will recieve a Necron themed orbital bombardment of some type once per game. And the flavour is going... going... gone.
Warlord Traits are good with some granting individual units USRs, while another listed granted an improved version of Reanimation Protocols So long as it doesn't include "The Warlord gains Fear".
Standard caveats apply, but this is from a very reliable anonymous source.
Eeeehhh, nerf us all you want, but give us things to fight back against things. Oh, is that a vehicle? Shoot it with Gauss. Oh, is that an MC? Deathmarks. Is it anything else? Just shoot it with Gauss.......nothing ever changes. I just want options, damnit.
Oh yeah, how could I forget about Tesla. And yeah, why do we not have AP 2? Most advanced race in the galaxy, with badass vehicles and regenerating metal bodies.....little AP 2.
Warriors - 4+ save means they die instantly to anything heavier than a bolter, I2 means they die before attacking in assault
Scythes - On round 2 it's get to enter the board and maybe shoot TWICE before flys of the other side of the board, lots of shots, no AP Telsa - S6 is useful, no AP. I acutally find it more useful against vehicles, since everything gets their saves against it.
Catacom Command Barge - Hard to kill, but crappy damage output.
Sacarbs - unless you farm them, they are a temp tap pit
Praetoreans need a buff
Flayed ones need a buff
Lychguard need a buff
C'tan Shards need a buff
Most of the Necron Characters never see the battlefield
Destroyers need a point reduction, and or a squad size boost
Doomsday Arks are too expensive to be competitive
Monoliths collect dust for anyone who isn't a nostalgic old school Necrons player.
Warriors - 4+ save means they die instantly to anything heavier than a bolter, I2 means they die before attacking in assault
Scythes - On round 2 it's get to enter the board and maybe shoot TWICE before flys of the other side of the board, lots of shots, no AP Telsa - S6 is useful, no AP. I acutally find it more useful against vehicles, since everything gets their saves against it.
Catacom Command Barge - Hard to kill, but crappy damage output.
Sacarbs - unless you farm them, they are a temp tap pit
Praetoreans need a buff
Flayed ones need a buff
Lychguard need a buff
C'tan Shards need a buff
Most of the Necron Characters never see the battlefield
Destroyers need a point reduction, and or a squad size boost
Doomsday Arks are too expensive to be competitive
Monoliths collect dust for anyone who isn't a nostalgic old school Necrons player.
Warriors - 4+ save means they die instantly to anything heavier than a bolter, I2 means they die before attacking in assault
Scythes - On round 2 it's get to enter the board and maybe shoot TWICE before flys of the other side of the board, lots of shots, no AP Telsa - S6 is useful, no AP. I acutally find it more useful against vehicles, since everything gets their saves against it.
Catacom Command Barge - Hard to kill, but crappy damage output.
Sacarbs - unless you farm them, they are a temp tap pit
Praetoreans need a buff
Flayed ones need a buff
Lychguard need a buff
C'tan Shards need a buff
Most of the Necron Characters never see the battlefield
Destroyers need a point reduction, and or a squad size boost
Doomsday Arks are too expensive to be competitive
Monoliths collect dust for anyone who isn't a nostalgic old school Necrons player.
Agreed.
Also, a lot of people seem to hate Tesla, but I just don't see it as remotely OP. If it stops working on Snapshots (as many have suggested), then virtually every tesla weapon becomes worthless, compared to their Gauss equivalents.
Sure, a couple of platforms for the Tesla Destructor are too cheap, but Tesla as a rule is fine.
Warriors - 4+ save means they die instantly to anything heavier than a bolter, I2 means they die before attacking in assault
Scythes - On round 2 it's get to enter the board and maybe shoot TWICE before flys of the other side of the board, lots of shots, no AP Telsa - S6 is useful, no AP. I acutally find it more useful against vehicles, since everything gets their saves against it.
Catacom Command Barge - Hard to kill, but crappy damage output.
Sacarbs - unless you farm them, they are a temp tap pit
Praetoreans need a buff
Flayed ones need a buff
Lychguard need a buff
C'tan Shards need a buff
Most of the Necron Characters never see the battlefield
Destroyers need a point reduction, and or a squad size boost
Doomsday Arks are too expensive to be competitive
Monoliths collect dust for anyone who isn't a nostalgic old school Necrons player.
Agreed.
Also, a lot of people seem to hate Tesla, but I just don't see it as remotely OP. If it stops working on Snapshots (as many have suggested), then virtually every tesla weapon becomes worthless, compared to their Gauss equivalents.
Sure, a couple of platforms for the Tesla Destructor are too cheap, but Tesla as a rule is fine.
Exactly. A non-fast skimmer with a mid-low range, AP - weapon and a secondary weapon that's useless if it moves, and if it Jinks, it has to snapfire. Sure, lets make it so that if it Jinks, it's virtually useless now. That'll make all of our other lackluster HS options more viable, right? >.>
Exactly. A non-fast skimmer with a mid-low range, AP - weapon and a secondary weapon that's useless if it moves, and if it Jinks, it has to snapfire. Sure, lets make it so that if it Jinks, it's virtually useless now. That'll make all of our other lackluster HS options more viable, right? >.>
Well, the thing is, it's main weapon is very mediocre. S7 is average at best for a vehicle weapon, and it has no AP whatsoever. The only thing remarkable about it is that it can get a lot of hits, even when snapshotting. I don't think we need to take that away.
By all means make the barge more expensive, just don't remove the entire reason for fielding one.
The other aspect is that it's basically our only ground unit that stands a decent chance against fliers.
Exactly. A non-fast skimmer with a mid-low range, AP - weapon and a secondary weapon that's useless if it moves, and if it Jinks, it has to snapfire. Sure, lets make it so that if it Jinks, it's virtually useless now. That'll make all of our other lackluster HS options more viable, right? >.>
Well, the thing is, it's main weapon is very mediocre. S7 is average at best for a vehicle weapon, and it has no AP whatsoever. The only thing remarkable about it is that it can get a lot of hits, even when snapshotting. I don't think we need to take that away.
By all means make the barge more expensive, just don't remove the entire reason for fielding one.
The other aspect is that it's basically our only ground unit that stands a decent chance against fliers.
Yeah. Speaking of shooting at fliers, if they add the Obelisk to the codex, give it freaking Skyfire....
Yeah. Speaking of shooting at fliers, if they add the Obelisk to the codex, give it freaking Skyfire....
That would make it even more useless. The fix the Obelisk needs is AV 14 and a rewording to hit FMC too with it's anti-flyer shockwave of narrow applicability.
Warriors - 4+ save means they die instantly to anything heavier than a bolter, I2 means they die before attacking in assault.Completely agree with this
Scythes - On round 2 it's get to enter the board and maybe shoot TWICE before flys of the other side of the board, lots of shots, no APAgain, usually
Tesla - S6 is useful, no AP. I actually find it more useful against vehicles, since everything gets their saves against it.It is effective because of the same reason Scatter Lasers are so effective. Drown in bullets (bolts?)
Catacomb Command Barge - Hard to kill, but crappy damage output.I actually don't get why people like this so much. It's overpriced and does sweet feth all
Scarabs - unless you farm them, they are a temp tap pitOr you throw them at Wave Serpents and laugh as that single surviving base wrecks it
Praetorians need a buffNo arguments there
Flayed ones need a buffAgain, no argument from me here
Lychguard need a buffNot as badly as people make out. Yes, they could use being cheaper, but seeing as how 4 of them can chop up two carnifexes in two turns, they aren't anywhere near useless
C'tan Shards need a buffNot so much a buff as a lower points cost
Most of the Necron Characters never see the battlefieldUnfortuantely, I have to agree. I wish I didn't.
Destroyers need a point reduction, and or a squad size boostPoints reduction. 30 for Destroyer, 10 per HGC Doomsday Arks are too expensive to be competitiveVery much so. However, it is funny to see an ork SloggerBoy list cry when they see one.
Monoliths collect dust for anyone who isn't a nostalgic old school Necrons player.Apart from the fact they are the Bane of Wraithguard.
They had absorbed enough fire to drop them both to 2 wounds the whiffed their own charge
I charged, hit with 5, wounded with 2, while he only hit twice and wounded once, I passed invun. Hit three wounded 3 next turn, and a Lychguard went down.
IHateNids wrote: They had absorbed enough fire to drop them both to 2 wounds the whiffed their own charge
I charged, hit with 5, wounded with 2, while he only hit twice and wounded once, I passed invun. Hit three wounded 3 next turn, and a Lychguard went down.
Ah, I thought you were talking mathematically. If you see what I mean.
That's the issue I have with Lychguard. We pay terminator prices for a 3+ save, and we EITHER have a good weapon but less survivability, or better(ish) survivability but can't get through a 2+ save. Whereas Hammernators have both, and are probably the same cost if not cheaper.
vipoid wrote: The other aspect is that Terminators can take Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Wolves etc., whilst we lack any sort of delivery vehicle.
That as well. We have Night Scythes, which aren't assault vehicles, and we have VoD or Ghostwalk Mantle, which is "Deep Striking". So, kinda screwed on that front.
vipoid wrote: The other aspect is that Terminators can take Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Wolves etc., whilst we lack any sort of delivery vehicle.
The ghost ark. The best vehicle in the 40k universe. Without a shadow of a doubt. 115pts for an assault vehicle, split fire, 10 weapons, repair barge, AV13 and 4HP.
vipoid wrote: The other aspect is that Terminators can take Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Wolves etc., whilst we lack any sort of delivery vehicle.
The ghost ark. The best vehicle in the 40k universe. Without a shadow of a doubt. 115pts for an assault vehicle, split fire, 10 weapons, repair barge, AV13 and 4HP.
That only transports Warriors, which, have Rapid-Fire guns.
vipoid wrote: The other aspect is that Terminators can take Land Raiders, Storm Ravens, Storm Wolves etc., whilst we lack any sort of delivery vehicle.
The ghost ark. The best vehicle in the 40k universe. Without a shadow of a doubt. 115pts for an assault vehicle, split fire, 10 weapons, repair barge, AV13 and 4HP.
If you consider +5 points each to Scythe Lychguard worthwhile for getting Ever Living, then yes. You can take a five man court as "Lychguard" equivalents in a Ghost Ark.
Otherwise you're out of luck.
Don't even try Sheildguard emulation. The invulnerable saves'll sink double their points worth.
Lychguard are really good if you ask me. I just can never justify their 40 points outside of Apocalypse, so they stand around for 11 months until I can actually play them without feeling bad.
With the GK-Terminators and BA-Sanguinary Guard I hope/expect that they also become 33 points. Perhaps even 30. At 30 points they still aren't perfect, but they will surely see more play.
AlexRae wrote: I hope they change the Tesla mechanic so it doesnt proc on Snap Shots.
Hmm, only if they also buff Immortals. The sole reason I take them is to see their overwatch, other than that I prefer Warriors.
Warriors - 4+ save means they die instantly to anything heavier than a bolter, I2 means they die before attacking in assault
Scythes - On round 2 it's get to enter the board and maybe shoot TWICE before flys of the other side of the board, lots of shots, no AP Telsa - S6 is useful, no AP. I acutally find it more useful against vehicles, since everything gets their saves against it.
Sacarbs - unless you farm them, they are a temp tap pit
Warriors - Better than Dire Avengers for the same point cost.
Scythes - The most under costed vehicle in all of 40K is not OP. lol Tesla - Why does it have to do so well when snap shotting ?
Scarabs - Yes but they cost nothing and are a serious threat to many things.
There will be nerfs, and the most guaranteed targets are the 100 point Scythe and the 90 points annihilation barge, because both are way undercosted.
Warriors - Better than Dire Avengers for the same point cost.
Only if you ignore their I5, battle focus (run and shoot), counter atack, plama grenades, and fleet
Scythes - The most under costed vehicle in all of 40K is not OP. lol
Has to deploy from reserves, shoots twice, flys off table, maybe gets another turn or 2 of shooting after re-entering board
Tesla - Why does it have to do so well when snap shotting ?
Why do people get butthurt that it does better than other weapons while snap shotting ?
Necrons have 2 flavors of weapons Gauss and Tesla, both trigger on rolls of 6.
Getting extra hits on 6 is the reason people use Tesla weapons.
Scarabs - Yes but they cost nothing and are a serious threat to many things.
Scarabs cost 15 points per base, and are only a serious threat in large numbers, while backed by 3+, 50+ point Spyders. Devoting 900 points, 3 Fast Attack, and 3 Heavy Slots to run a proper Scarab Farm is not a minimal investment.
Warriors - Better than Dire Avengers for the same point cost. Highly debatable. Warriors are tougher and better against vehicles, but Dire Avengers are better in combat and against non-vehicles (with pseudo-rending on their guns), and are also markedly faster and able to fire even after fleeting.
Scythes - The most under costed vehicle in all of 40K is not OP. lol The most undercosted vehicle in all of 40k is the Wave Serpent. Night Scythes might be second though.
Tesla - Why does it have to do so well when snap shotting ? Because it sucks at everything else? If you take away it's ability to do well on snapshots, what's the point of Tesla over Gauss - which has the same strength, better AP, gets twice the shots at 12", and can hurt any vehicle in the game?
Scarabs - Yes but they cost nothing and are a serious threat to many things. And will die to anything that looks at them funny. There is a lot of S6 in the game right now.
There will be nerfs, and the most guaranteed targets are the 100 point Scythe and the 90 points annihilation barge, because both are way undercosted.
I'm not sure the Barge is way undercosted. I agree 90pts is too cheap, but I really don't think it needs a huge price hike.
The Nightscythe... I have no idea. It seems like you'll end up either make it too expensive to even consider, or still cheap enough that people will carry on spamming it. Maybe the more important factor it its status as a dedicated transport? Perhaps it should just be a FA choice like the IG Valkyrie and Vendetta. Though, frankly, I think the flyer rules in general are in dire need of a drastic redesign.
As a question, what are people's thoughts on Quantum Shielding? Do you think it will stay the same? Do you want it to stay the same? Any changes you'd like to see made to it?
I'm all for Quantum Shielding being changed into something like "downgrade all hits (penetrating->glancing->nothing) on a 4+, but I suspect it's probably just going to turn into Shrouded or a straight-up Invun save.
Warriors - Better than Dire Avengers at killing vehicles for the same point cost. Warriors suck in combat, are not as mobile, and are only good at killing vehicles, plus have no options for squad upgrades. Also, don't have any real synergy options in their codex, unlike Eldar, whom can make DA even better.
Scythes - The most under costed vehicle in all of 40K is not OP. lol Undercosted, yes. That doesn't make it OP. The fact that it has a NON-ignores cover, non-pinning, short-range Serpent shield-esq weapon as it's one and only option does not make it OP.
Tesla - Why does it have to do so well when snap shotting ? Why does the Serpent Shield have to ignore cover? Because that's the selling point of the weapon. Otherwise, Tesla would be nothing.
Scarabs - Yes but they cost nothing and are a serious threat to many things. Again, to vehicles. And that's it. Also, you play Eldar. You have S6 coming out your rectums, whereas Necron's S6+ IS Tesla, that's it.
There will be nerfs, and the most guaranteed targets are the 100 point Scythe and the 90 points annihilation barge, because both are way undercosted.
All I want changed for crons at this point is mss changed to "A model in base contact with a model with Mind Shackle Scarabs must take a leadership test at -2ld before any to hit rolls are made. If successful nothing happens. If failed the model takes 1 automatic hit at its own initiative with one of its weapons used during the fight sub phase."
This way my crons don't completely shut down any and all CC oriented armies free without my poor opponents being unable to actually play the game. I have a massive hatred towards rules and equipment rules that bypass your opponents ability to actually do as he had intended. In this case, sink 3-5 hundred points into something like a Daemon Prince only to have it kill himself. Not to mention the warscythe got a rediculous, and in my opinion, completely unwarrented buff. They are the Tau of melee in my books and with this change it would still make them dangerous, but not "Avoid or forfeit your game".
I wouldn't be surprised if the Warscythe and Hyperphase Sword get the "Phasing Hits" rule ala the Callidus' Phase Sword (basically to wound rolls of 6 ignore Inv saves).
Point reduction for Destroyers... and this is completely wishlisting on my part but Heavy Destroyers returning to Heavy Support OR the max squad size of Destroyers is increased to 10.
I really would love to see Destroyer Wing becoming a viable option once more.
SilverDevilfish wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if the Warscythe and Hyperphase Sword get the "Phasing Hits" rule ala the Callidus' Phase Sword (basically to wound rolls of 6 ignore Inv saves).
No. GW would never give a rule like this to anything but the Imperium, even though it's from a C'TAN phase blade. So, no point in wishlisting.
SilverDevilfish wrote: I wouldn't be surprised if the Warscythe and Hyperphase Sword get the "Phasing Hits" rule ala the Callidus' Phase Sword (basically to wound rolls of 6 ignore Inv saves).
No. GW would never give a rule like this to anything but the Imperium, even though it's from a C'TAN phase blade. So, no point in wishlisting.
It is a wishlisting thread, so... there is a point.
Ironically enough, Warscythes used to ignore invulnerable saves outright before any Imperial was doing it... back in the awful codex nobody played...
I think that to keep the Hyperphase Sword in line with the other two, it should come paired with a Particle Caster automatically. That way it's a choice between +1 attack at S5 AP3 and a short-ranged attack, normal attacks at S7 AP4 Concussive and a better short-ranged attack, or S6 AP1 Armourbane with no ranged attack.
Furyou Miko wrote: Ironically enough, Warscythes used to ignore invulnerable saves outright before any Imperial was doing it... back in the awful codex nobody played...
I think that to keep the Hyperphase Sword in line with the other two, it should come paired with a Particle Caster automatically. That way it's a choice between +1 attack at S5 AP3 and a short-ranged attack, normal attacks at S7 AP4 Concussive and a better short-ranged attack, or S6 AP1 Armourbane with no ranged attack.
Yeah, but combine that with everything they have now, it would be stupidly powerful, and would receive a lot of hate from pretty much every who doesn't play Necrons.
The Internet is for Khorn wrote: Retcon the newcron gak that Matt Ward did and give them back their old fluff as soulless warriors for the C'tan.
Fun fact: The 5th edition fluff is honestly probably more in line with the original 2nd edition Necron Raiders concept than them having no individual personality is.
That aside, the fluff already has plenty of mindless or omnicidal tomb worlds running around. If you play one of those the only thing we're genuinely missing from 3rd edition fluff is the Deceiver messing around with things, and you could easily fix that one simply by making him have a shared consciousness between all his shards, only feigning weakness as a long con.
The Internet is for Khorn wrote: Retcon the newcron gak that Matt Ward did and give them back their old fluff as soulless warriors for the C'tan.
Please no. I don't want an army of mindless robots. As people have said, we don't need metal tyranids. I like the idea behind the new fluff, whether or not you think it was executed properly.
Pyeatt wrote: Hey man... If they could keep everything about the same, but give things proper AP values so I don't have to dig through FAQs... I'd be pretty happy. Also, flayed ones are too cool to be so pathetic.
Also, Plasma. Or a Plasma equivalent. Where is all our AP 2 for being the most advanced race in the galaxy?
Well, to be fair, Necron warfare tech was developed millions of years ago, and they mostly fought against Eldar and Ork/Krork before taking their nap. Neither of those armies are known for heavily armoured infantry, so the Necrons would not have had a need to every develop a large number of AP2 small arms. It makes sense that Necrons can easily deal with enemy vehicle armour and light infantry (two things that feature heavily in Eldar and Ork combat styles) but struggle against heavy infantry.
Since the transferance and awakening, I'd imagine that Necron technology advancements are not that frequent, so adapting to heavy infantry armies like the various marine chapters/legions will take some time. Of course, given GW's love of AP2 (and apparent hatred of terminators), I'd fully expect the new Necron codex to be loaded with AP2 ranged weaponry.
skoffs wrote: I realize this may be crazy talk but,
What if in the upcoming codex
They took the new fluff
and
(now stay with me here)
...
Executed it properly.
That sound right there?
That was the sound of me blowing your mind.
skoffs wrote: I realize this may be crazy talk but,
What if in the upcoming codex
They took the new fluff
and
(now stay with me here)
...
Executed it properly.
That sound right there?
That was the sound of me blowing your mind.
Yes, please.
I wish, otherwise, I'll just be blissfully ignorant of the new fluff and delude myself with my fan fluff
skoffs wrote: No, you fool!
Keep your expectations low!
Low, I say!
This is the key to happiness.
Hope is the breeding ground for disappointment.
This is true, but the next formations and relics look really cool, and still pretty good IMO. Therefor, the codex will most likely have the same feel to it.
I have a friend who works close by the GW teams and is in GW himself he says that most of the codex will be the same there on about making all hq's multi part plastic sets instead of finecast (hooray) we are expected a new troop. Tesla is to be re evaluated so are Wraiths Lychguard and flayed ones reevaluated.
My expectations have been revised from mildly pessimistic to cautiously optimistic about the new Necrons based on the formations. RP is still a thing, mechanics seem familiar in terms of what the buffs are meant to provide. Warlord tables, artifacts and formation buffs are already wicked with that supplement...the new codex can only add to that. I hope it's a sign of good things to come.
Also, have you guys considered that, maybe, since the book is supposed to be hella thick, that maybe they're adding Dynasty "tactics", and possible ways to create your own Dynasty?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I mean, one Dynasty already has it's own formations and relics from that campaign. Just saying....
Yeah dude. I can see it. Chapter Tactics for Crons. From what I've seen already, there is already a dynasty that Id be willing to adopt and consider it a massive improvement. If I get an Orbital Bombardment option, as rumored, I'm gonna flip my gak.
I just hope there is something in there for dealing with T8 Monstrous Creatures, besides the Deathmarks.
My regular opponent always takes a Wraithknight. He only ever takes one, never spamming them, but if you aren't kitted to deal with it, it only takes one Wraithknight to ruin your day. Lol.
I'm hoping for some clarification as to if Anrakyr's MiTM ability can be used from the back of a Command barge.
Seeing as how most of the new formations require a unit of Immortals or two, having them not completely suck would be pretty good. Only thing with Anrakyr is that he isn't very survivable on his own, and the barge gimps his ability.
docdoom77 wrote: I just hope there is something in there for dealing with T8 Monstrous Creatures, besides the Deathmarks.
My regular opponent always takes a Wraithknight. He only ever takes one, never spamming them, but if you aren't kitted to deal with it, it only takes one Wraithknight to ruin your day. Lol.
adamsouza wrote: I always found it a bit odd that Necrons don't have a heavy, or special, weapon option for the troops, other than assigning them a cryptek.
Holdover from 3rd edition fluff.
Being able to have an Immortal sergeant, or indeed sergeant models in any non-warrior unit would be nice, but don't count on it.
I'm not sure if I'd like that.
Having everyone with the same equipment is something I like, it feels like something that works with Necrons.
We cannot take AT-weapons, but that is why we have Gauss.
Lots of people underestimate rending. Oh, and Spyders.
Drones, drones are your Melee section. If you bring the Forge World ones in, you have six (seven with Maynark) drone types, only one of which can't bypass 2+ saves.
And Necrons generally don't want to be in melee at all, yet alone as a method of dealing with the big monsters
With the standard playstyle, maybe.
Perhaps I should have specified: we need more ap2 shooting
I'm cool with what we have, for the most part. A vehicle heavy list will struggle to kill monstrous creatures, but we have plenty of tools for it. And if it's just Terminators, massed fire isn't too bad. Those things are expensive.
Lots of people underestimate rending. Oh, and Spyders.
Perhaps lots of people are using the Necron book, not the Imperial Armour book (or whatever those Rending scarabs are in).
Wraiths, dude. Strength 6 rending. And again, Spyders.
Scarabs aren't too bad at doing a bit of handy assault phase contribution either if you pick targets like Devastators. But that one is quite a bit less relevant to the Monstrous Creatures discussion.
IA12 does have some nice tricks in it, but I don't think many of my FLGS would like fighting a full army of FW rules
If you already have it, see how they feel about you running one or two things. There's fun options in there, a lot of them aren't that hard to convert, and none of them are more broken than Tesla Destructor Spam.
Maybe don't run a large or farmed Charnel unit if you're trying to convince them forge world isn't high powered though. These things can be crazy. Anything else is more or less the same power level as it's equivalent points in main codex stuff.
Though, I wouldn't expect them to retain their current power in our next book.
I'd be surprised if they didn't, actually. They're not the top of their class (that'd be Thunderwolves) and we don't have a lot in the core of our list.
They might take a minor hit to sell buffed Destroyers in the same slot, but otherwise they're probably safe.
Only if they get there. 6" movement means most enemies can just avoid them.
Yeah, you need to commit to a scarab farm to get the best out of them.
I take Particle Beamers. They can contribute more than just Scarab farming on the way across the board, and obliterate a lot of deep strikers with their shoot and assault. Not very good against Storm Shields though.
My book must be different, because I cannot find an entry for Drones - either next to the above or elsewhere.
...Canoptek drones. Wraiths, Scarabs and Spyders. The automated robots who didn't use to be people.
Ahhhh, so when he says "Drones" he means "Canoptek"
Don't know why he didn't just say that from the beginning instead of using misleading terminology (when most people say "drones" in 40k, the first thing to come to mind is Tau).
skoffs wrote: Ahhhh, so when he says "Drones" he means "Canoptek"
Don't know why he didn't just say that from the beginning instead of using misleading terminology (when most people say "drones" in 40k, the first thing to come to mind is Tau).
...What's misleading? They're literally drones. That's the terminology that distinguishes them from the sentient robo-skeletons and non-robotic machines in the army list.
Yes, they're specifically Canoptek Drones, but it seems odd I would need to type that out in full every time.
Honestly I was under the impression I was passive aggressively being asked to point out where in the army book it said they were good in melee.
changemod wrote: ...What's misleading? They're literally drones. That's the terminology that distinguishes them from the sentient robo-skeletons and non-robotic machines in the army list.
Yes, they're specifically Canoptek Drones, but it seems odd I would need to type that out in full every time.
Honestly I was under the impression I was passive aggressively being asked to point out where in the army book it said they were good in melee.
No, I'm asking you to point out where I can find them in the sodding Necron codex.
skoffs wrote: Ahhhh, so when he says "Drones" he means "Canoptek"
Don't know why he didn't just say that from the beginning instead of using misleading terminology (when most people say "drones" in 40k, the first thing to come to mind is Tau).
...What's misleading? They're literally drones. That's the terminology that distinguishes them from the sentient robo-skeletons and non-robotic machines in the army list.
Yes, they're specifically Canoptek Drones, but it seems odd I would need to type that out in full every time.
Honestly I was under the impression I was passive aggressively being asked to point out where in the army book it said they were good in melee.
The majority of players refer to them as "Canopteks" or "Canoptek units" because that is what they are called in the codex.
No one calls them "Drones" because they are not called drones.
skoffs wrote: The majority of players refer to them as "Canopteks" or "Canoptek units" because that is what they are called in the codex.
No one calls them "Drones" because they are not called drones.
They are drones. There's nothing misleading about using the meaning of a word just because there's another type of drone in a completely different codex.
Frankly I'd normally, at least face to face, avoid using the term Canoptek in case my opponent hadn't read the codex in enough detail to remember the barely used word. Avoids confusion the other way. Generally I could expect any non-Necron player to know what a drone is but not necessarily know obscure Necron terminology.
Considering this is a thread of Necron players, calling them drones apparently lead to more confusion than refering to them by the in game name.
It roughly the equivalent of refering to Necrons as Terminators, since non 40K players would likely refer to endoskeleton robots as such, but generate confusion amongst 40K players who associate Termiantors with Space Marine Tactical Dreadnaught Armor.
adamsouza wrote: It roughly the equivalent of refering to Necrons as Terminators, since non 40K players would likely refer to endoskeleton robots as such, but generate confusion amongst 40K players who associate Termiantors with Space Marine Tactical Dreadnaught Armor.
Not even slightly relevant, to be honest. This is more like someone failing to understand the word "Scout" wasn't referring to Space Marine scouts in a thread about an unrelated faction.
skoffs wrote: The majority of players refer to them as "Canopteks" or "Canoptek units" because that is what they are called in the codex.
No one calls them "Drones" because they are not called drones.
They are drones. There's nothing misleading about using the meaning of a word just because there's another type of drone in a completely different codex.
Frankly I'd normally, at least face to face, avoid using the term Canoptek in case my opponent hadn't read the codex in enough detail to remember the barely used word. Avoids confusion the other way. Generally I could expect any non-Necron player to know what a drone is but not necessarily know obscure Necron terminology.
Well, considering how many people here are utterly confused by your terminology, I'd say your strategy of avoiding confusing people is working great.
Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?
JuniorRS13 wrote: Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?
Their army wide rule is Resurrection Protocols. I'm certain that won't change.
changemod wrote: [hey are drones. There's nothing misleading about using the meaning of a word just because there's another type of drone in a completely different codex.
Substitute Terminators for drones.
You used a word that made sense to you, that confused other people because of the context. Instead of acknowledging that and moving on, you attempted to prove how you are right and the anyone who was confused was wrong to be confused.
GW has been keen to avoid using the term robot, or drone, in a broad sense
Tau have Drones
Necrons have Canopteks
Imperials have Automata
Canoptek is probably a lot easier to defend as a copywright
JuniorRS13 wrote: Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?
I don't think they will get Psychic powers, perhaps just Wargear to mimick the effects of Psychic powers.
adamsouza wrote: Considering this is a thread of Necron players, calling them drones apparently lead to more confusion than refering to them by the in game name.
It roughly the equivalent of refering to Necrons as Terminators, since non 40K players would likely refer to endoskeleton robots as such, but generate confusion amongst 40K players who associate Termiantors with Space Marine Tactical Dreadnaught Armor.
Huh that's pretty much the best way to put it
I don't think they will get Psychic powers, perhaps just Wargear to mimick the effects of Psychic powers.
I would hope they get something like the dwarfs power in warhammer, wargear to boot their deny the witch rolls or something.
Like Deny the Witch on 4+ or something army wide would make sense since they have no souls to be effected by warp powers and created the Pariahs
JuniorRS13 wrote: Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?
Necron Psyker Equivalents have been Crypteks and C'Tans in the current codex. I imagine that will remain the case. No clue whether or not we're getting any cards. It would kind of suck if Cryptek and C'Tan powers became randomized by cards or dice rolls. Up to now, Cryptek techno-magic and C'Tan powers have been something you purchase as options, and there is no randomization, nor Perils of the Warp involved. They're not Warp-driven powers so randomization and/or Perils of the Warp wouldn't really fit.
changemod wrote: [hey are drones. There's nothing misleading about using the meaning of a word just because there's another type of drone in a completely different codex.
Substitute Terminators for drones.
Substitute superficial resemblance to a different fictional property to generic category, sure.
You used a word that made sense to you, that confused other people because of the context. Instead of acknowledging that and moving on, you attempted to prove how you are right and the anyone who was confused was wrong to be confused.
Raw disbelief at this point. Drone isn't some arcane word known only to a tiny handful of people, such as if I'd said "Ushabti" to refer to a statue on a tomb world then expected people not to wonder why I was talking about Tomb Kings.
changemod wrote: [hey are drones. There's nothing misleading about using the meaning of a word just because there's another type of drone in a completely different codex.
Substitute Terminators for drones.
Substitute superficial resemblance to a different fictional property to generic category, sure.
You used a word that made sense to you, that confused other people because of the context. Instead of acknowledging that and moving on, you attempted to prove how you are right and the anyone who was confused was wrong to be confused.
Raw disbelief at this point. Drone isn't some arcane word known only to a tiny handful of people, such as if I'd said "Ushabti" to refer to a statue on a tomb world then expected people not to wonder why I was talking about Tomb Kings.
It doesn't matter whether they are or are not drones. What matters is that most people don't associate the word "drone" with those units. Hence, confusion.
JuniorRS13 wrote: Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?
Necron Psyker Equivalents have been Crypteks and C'Tans in the current codex. I imagine that will remain the case. No clue whether or not we're getting any cards. It would kind of suck if Cryptek and C'Tan powers became randomized by cards or dice rolls. Up to now, Cryptek techno-magic and C'Tan powers have been something you purchase as options, and there is no randomization, nor Perils of the Warp involved. They're not Warp-driven powers so randomization and/or Perils of the Warp wouldn't really fit.
Reference cards for wargear could be handy if they're strapped for ideas, I guess.
It'd be more sensible to just give a pack of objective markers with the six tactical objective substitution cards though.
...Honestly, psychic powers being randomised appears to suck pretty hard. Glad we've managed to avoid that pitfall.
jasper76 wrote: Necron Psyker Equivalents have been Crypteks and C'Tans in the current codex. I imagine that will remain the case. No clue whether or not we're getting any cards. It would kind of suck if Cryptek and C'Tan powers became randomized by cards or dice rolls. Up to now, Cryptek techno-magic and C'Tan powers have been something you purchase as options, and there is no randomization, nor Perils of the Warp involved. They're not Warp-driven powers so randomization and/or Perils of the Warp wouldn't really fit.
That is true and I really like it about the Necrons.
They aren't the pure robots some people believe them to be, but in the game they are really calculated and 'organised'.
They don't really have squads where every model has different gear, heavy weapons and special weapons.
If you want some AV in your Warriors, you use their Gauss or your Overlord sends one of his Harbingers of Destruction to aid them.
And if your unit of Warriors will be close to the enemies you simply assign a Lord to the squad.
They also don't rely on the Warp, they use their technology to mimic (or best) what other Psykers can do.
My biggest fear of all is that they mess this up.
I don't want an Immortal-sergeant, I don't want a Heavy Weapon-Warrior and I surely don't want Psychic powers.
I really want to keep my Royal Court that I can assign to units that need their abilities.
JuniorRS13 wrote: Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?
Necron Psyker Equivalents have been Crypteks and C'Tans in the current codex. I imagine that will remain the case. No clue whether or not we're getting any cards. It would kind of suck if Cryptek and C'Tan powers became randomized by cards or dice rolls. Up to now, Cryptek techno-magic and C'Tan powers have been something you purchase as options, and there is no randomization, nor Perils of the Warp involved. They're not Warp-driven powers so randomization and/or Perils of the Warp wouldn't really fit.
Eh, maybe it could fit for C'tan.
They could just say that due to the unstable nature of the shard containment process, the C'tan cannot manifest his powers properly. Or something like that.
Perils would be out of character though.
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Pyeatt wrote: I want all models to have i7, and Flayed Ones to get a Necron Wave Serpent transport option.
That wouldn't be fluffy though. Necrons were always a bit on the slow side.
T7 across the board would be a better fit
JuniorRS13 wrote: Very new to necrons here, only glimpsed through current codex once, but I was curious on how the necrons data cards would work. As necrons have no physkers, I wonder what sort of game mechanic they would receive in place of that, if at all. Maybe something like the DE power from pain?
Maybe something more akin to Acts of Faith for sisters of battle. In function at least.
I understand how resurrection protocols are funny in cases and fit the army but maybe a rule like
"damage limitation-there is limit to how far a necron can be damaged to repair only to find that doing so cripples it more as of such any necron model may only use resurrection protocols twice."
or
"Lasting damage- as damage in combat builds up necrons find it harder and harder to repair damage before they phase out after the first time a model resurrects on a 5+ after that it does so on a 6+.
I only say this because it can get really annoying in a game when some nubey player, new to the hobby, no grasp of tactics. Is wining because I have to kill his squads three times before they stay dead.
Just my opinion but here is imbalances then there is invincible units.
e.earnshaw wrote: I understand how resurrection protocols are funny in cases and fit the army but maybe a rule like
"damage limitation-there is limit to how far a necron can be damaged to repair only to find that doing so cripples it more as of such any necron model may only use resurrection protocols twice."
It wouldn't fit their fluff, and would be a massive pain to keep track of. Can you imagine having to mark every single warrior model who has died at some point?
e.earnshaw wrote: or
"Lasting damage- as damage in combat builds up necrons find it harder and harder to repair damage before they phase out after the first time a model resurrects on a 5+ after that it does so on a 6+.
If this sort of thing were true, I don't think there would be any Necrons left - just a lot of scrap metal somewhere.
I only say this because it can get really annoying in a game when some nubey player, new to the hobby, no grasp of tactics. Is wining because I have to kill his squads three times before they stay dead.
Just my opinion but here is imbalances then there is invincible units.
If you're killing his entire squad, how are they reviving?
e.earnshaw wrote: I understand how resurrection protocols are funny in cases and fit the army but maybe a rule like "damage limitation-there is limit to how far a necron can be damaged to repair only to find that doing so cripples it more as of such any necron model may only use resurrection protocols twice." or "Lasting damage- as damage in combat builds up necrons find it harder and harder to repair damage before they phase out after the first time a model resurrects on a 5+ after that it does so on a 6+.
I only say this because it can get really annoying in a game when some nubey player, new to the hobby, no grasp of tactics. Is wining because I have to kill his squads three times before they stay dead. Just my opinion but here is imbalances then there is invincible units.
It's not really 'funny in cases'. It's just how the Warriors are resilient enough to justify their point-cost.
Yes, it sucks if they resurrect three times. But is it that worse than a Terminator that never fails his Invulnerable-save or a Marine that always manages to get his Armour save? Is that any different from Tau always getting their cover-save, or Blood Angels always succeeding their FNP? Inv, cover and FNP doesn't get any worse every time it saves your model. Why do you want such a thing on RP?
What probably upsets you is that you killed it, and it got back up. People have often said that RP should be replaced with FNP, but trust me: That would make them more resilient! The downside of FNP is that S8-weapons ignore it. The downside of RP is that Sweeping Advance and a failed Moral ignore it. I'd rather have FNP from a 'competitive viewpoint', because I've lost more Warriors to Morale and CC than to S8-weapons.
Once RP happens it's too late to do anything about it, whereas with ordinary saves and FNP you know if you've succeeded withoyt having to commit additional units to destroy your target.
AlmightyWalrus wrote: Once RP happens it's too late to do anything about it, whereas with ordinary saves and FNP you know if you've succeeded withoyt having to commit additional units to destroy your target.
That only applies to characters.
For squads, you know whether the squad is still alive or not. If it is, you can commit more firepower to wipe it out - thereby preventing them from even rolling RPs.
skoffs wrote: Give him a break, guys. He's probably new so doesn't know you're supposed to focus on/wipe the entire unit/force them to retreat to nullify RP.
Not always!
In Apocalypse I am still trying to explain people why they should not focus ALL fire on the Infinite Phalanx that is 60" away from their closest vehicle.
Same goes for Warriors in normal battles, you take them out when they are actually a threat.
The fear of Gauss and RP caused me to win more battles than my own tactical skills.
skoffs wrote: Give him a break, guys. He's probably new so doesn't know you're supposed to focus on/wipe the entire unit/force them to retreat to nullify RP.
Hardly "new", the thing is that until you overkill a Necron unit it's still potentially a threat . If you shoot at 5 Hammernators and kill 4 of them, the last one can probably be safely ignored, as he's probably not a threat. Meanwhile, leaving even a single Necron Warrior standing from a unit could potentially mean that you've barely dented the firepower, forcing you to either spend additional, overkilling firepower to kill one Warrior or to let it live and risk having a threat left on the board.
In a sense, it's Schrödinger's Necron; you don't know how dangerous it is until you've checked the results of the reanimation protocols roll. You also only ever need to pass one roll, which I suppose is balanced out by it getting to roll if the unit is wiped.
You'll note that I'm not passive-aggressively attacking your credibility, so I'd very much prefer if you showed me the same courtesy.
Time to dig up my old "Observations on Reanimation" rant I stuck on my blog back when I started playing then, I guess.
Just figured I'd share my thoughts on this somewhere whilst I had them all in order:
Reanimation Protocols, psychological impact of seeing dead models getting back up aside, is effectively a tweaked Feel No Pain.
The differences are as follows:
Against shooting attacks, Reanimation Protocols is superior to FNP because whilst both are effectively a secondary save on a 5+ (usually), RP allows you to get back up under instant death conditions.
In close combat, RP is vastly inferior because it is made at the end of the assault phase. Anyone who dies doesn't get to attack because they only get back up when it's too late, and as a result the unit is at a significant disadvantage for combat resolution. When (not if, you're going to lose unless you're fighting something like cultists) you run, you abandon everyone who would have got to roll for RP. (And then the remaining sixteen members of the unit are run down and annihilated by three assault marines because initiative 2.)
In a vacuum, these pros and cons probably balance out. Taking into account everyone being initiative 2 as well... I'd say the balance swings in favour of FNP.
But of course, that's not the full story, is it?
When you apply this analogy to multi-wound Overlords, it falls apart entirely. FNP is applied to all wounds, not only the last one. Further, Necron Overlords have three wounds, a pretty low number for a dedicated combat HQ, under the assumption they can gain extra wounds from reanimating. Not exactly untrue, but if Mindshackle Scarabs weren't so dang good they'd be taking substantial beatings from their low initiative more often.
And then there's Orb buffing. Getting a buff to reanimation is definitely nice, particularly against shooting attacks. That said? Still doesn't help in combat. Further, Lords with Orbs are not normal sergeants, they aren't a Warrior tweaked to be a unit leader, but rather a separate, expensive model that fills a completely different role that doesn't synergise with the rest of the unit. If you spend even more points than just getting an orb in there, a Lord is a combat beast... And will not save your twenty man warrior squad from falling back and getting wiped out very often. Oh sure, he'll definitely score a kill or two, but the chances against a dedicated combat unit of winning combat resolution is still very low. As such, I've started to phase Lords out of my Troops choices. The points are better spent elsewhere on a dedicated combat unit which can either countercharge or range out ahead of the foot troops to try to get rid of the worst assaulters in advance.
And finally, there's the issue of Destroyers and Wraiths. Destroyers are a priority target, and will fall foul of the final weakness of Reanimation Protocols: Not getting back up if the unit is wiped out. Reliable heavy firepower aside, this fragility makes their high points cost hard to justify. Wraiths, on the other hand do not have RP... And excel in durability anyhow. Because they have a second wound, which is actually a far better thing to have. Barring instant death only, a Wraith need not roll for reanimation, but instead gets the benefit equivalent to passing it once automatically.
In conclusion, I'm hardly saying RP isn't a great rule to have nearly universally on an army... Because it is. It's just that I'm more than a little tired of people acting like my army is some sort of invincible juggernaut because of it. It really, really isn't. A Necron army will fold like it's made of wet cardboard if you hit it the right way, because the rule doesn't quite live up to the hype it gets and has massive, glaring weaknesses that are easy to exploit.
Wrote this ages ago, but heck if I'm retyping all that to just add a bit of new perspective. It was basically an attempt to refute the idea that Necrons may as well be plague terminators which I came across a few times amongst early opponents.
If they nerfed RP Nerfed Wraiths Nerfed lords/ccb Nerfed Tesla Nerfed AB Nerfed NS Nerfed Destroyers(because why not eveything else is) Nerfed everything in our codex
then made Monolith comparable to an IK i would be happy hahaha
:Edit well happy that i get to use my 3 monoliths again at any rate
The gimmick of the monolith is it being slow and near-invulnerable. It's only the first of those right now, and nearly any army being able to pop it in one turn is what makes it such a joke.
90% sure the original monolith was Melta immune anyhow.
