I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

They could give them a 2+ save or slash their prize. I have tried praetorians with voidblades, they are like really expensive scarabs. Praetorians with staves are really expensive and risky terminator/space marine killers. Which a lord with some bodies can take care of just as well. Maybe wraiths are too good, but I would not field praetorians if I was not doing it to be nice. 40 points for something with i2 and a 3+ save is just too much. Love the models, though.

Really, I think the i2 is something expensive models cannot afford if they are not crazy strong in some area. It is a massive problem for a lot of necron units countered to some degree with the awesomeness of warscythes and mindshackle combined with other expensive goodies. Perhaps if you could put them in a Ghost Ark? Would become more high risk / high reward thing? Expensive hard hitting unit in a sturdy shell that needs to get up close.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

It seems (on paper anyway) that the entropic strike on the void blades would be very effective on MCs.

Anyway, not meaning to derail this further, but it seems to me that Triarch Praetorians and Wraiths are... pretty much exactly the same unit, only Wraiths are better because they are faster.

Very bad game design to be honest.

Ratflinger wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

They could give them a 2+ save or slash their prize. I have tried praetorians with voidblades, they are like really expensive scarabs. Praetorians with staves are really expensive and risky terminator/space marine killers. Which a lord with some bodies can take care of just as well. Maybe wraiths are too good, but I would not field praetorians if I was not doing it to be nice. 40 points for something with i2 and a 3+ save is just too much. Love the models, though.

Really, I think the i2 is something expensive models cannot afford if they are not crazy strong in some area. It is a massive problem for a lot of necron units countered to some degree with the awesomeness of warscythes and mindshackle combined with other expensive goodies. Perhaps if you could put them in a Ghost Ark? Would become more high risk / high reward thing? Expensive hard hitting unit in a sturdy shell that needs to get up close.

I mean, having actual infantry models with a 2+ save would be nice. Or at least the option to pay for it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alcibiades wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I mean, I've used Praetorians before, with a D-lord. They didn't do nearly as much as my Wraiths do. Now, I would rather have Praetorians go toe to toe with Terminators that my Wraiths, but I would rather have Wraiths do just about anything else. Especially going after MCs.

It seems (on paper anyway) that the entropic strike on the void blades would be very effective on MCs.

Anyway, not meaning to derail this further, but it seems to me that Triarch Praetorians and Wraiths are... pretty much exactly the same unit, only Wraiths are better because they are faster.

Very bad game design to be honest.

Exactly why, as good Necrons as a whole are right now, the overall codex is very badly balanced internally.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I just wish they would make the Phylactery what it is in the Deathwatch rpg. FNP, and IWND. That essentially what it does in fluff.
But yeah, I still think 30 points is a bit much for a res orb, hence why I don't even use Lord anymore. 35 point model and another 30 point upgrade just to give a unit a res orb. A bit expensive to me.
But, I do like your idea for the Phylactery, let you reroll the EL roll one time. Would be pretty sick.

Just thought of another thing!
Wouldn't it be great to have a 'sniper relic'?
Something with AP2 and Entropic Strike would be a great tool.
Vindicare had the possibility to remove Inv-saves for years, so a chance to remove the armour wouldn't be that overpowered, right?

Kangodo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I just wish they would make the Phylactery what it is in the Deathwatch rpg. FNP, and IWND. That essentially what it does in fluff.
But yeah, I still think 30 points is a bit much for a res orb, hence why I don't even use Lord anymore. 35 point model and another 30 point upgrade just to give a unit a res orb. A bit expensive to me.
But, I do like your idea for the Phylactery, let you reroll the EL roll one time. Would be pretty sick.

Just thought of another thing!
Wouldn't it be great to have a 'sniper relic'?
Something with AP2 and Entropic Strike would be a great tool.
Vindicare had the possibility to remove Inv-saves for years, so a chance to remove the armour wouldn't be that overpowered, right?

I mean, I guess? If they had a relic of it, they might as well make it a weapon, or have a deathmark-esq HQ or something.

Alcibiades wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
But with a VB+PC, the Praetorian is striking at AP-. His weapons literally have no effect above a regular CCW on 1w models.

I make it that a Praetorian (Void Blade + Particle Caster) kills 0.444 Marines when charging, while a Wraith (whip coils) kills 1.037 marines when charging. That's without working in the fact that the Marine strikes first against the Praetorian and has a chance of killing him.

The wraith is also striking at AP -....

The Wraith has Rending, the Triarch Praetorian does not.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

The Wraith has Rending, the Triarch Praetorian does not.

I thought Void Blades had rending?

Apparently my Necron book is not on the shelf, so someone else will have to check for certain, but I'm pretty sure they're just Entropic.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Apparently my Necron book is not on the shelf, so someone else will have to check for certain, but I'm pretty sure they're just Entropic.

Void blades are rending and entropic.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Apparently my Necron book is not on the shelf, so someone else will have to check for certain, but I'm pretty sure they're just Entropic.

Just checked, they are Entropic and Rending.

So, a Praetorian with voidblades and particle caster has 2 S5 attacks with rending, as opposed to the wraith's 3 S6 rending attacks.

Hm. That does change things slightly, but the Wraith still has more attacks, at higher strength, striking earlier. Why anyone would take a particle caster over whip coils, I do not know (you can't have both, ever).

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Hm. That does change things slightly, but the Wraith still has more attacks, at higher strength, striking earlier. Why anyone would take a particle caster over whip coils, I do not know (you can't have both, ever).

Wraiths are two attacks with one close combat weapon, right? Triarch Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters also have two attacks because they have two close combat weapons.

Whip Coils are good, but people overestimate them a lot because they overlook that the coils only work against enemies in base contact, allowing enemies to prepare for a charge and get their strongest melee models out of B2B range. Also note that they increase the cost for a Wraith by 5 points / model on average.

IMO GW should go the same direction with crons that they did with tyranids.
Which is to buff certain overcosted underwhelming units and increase the cost and reduce overall power of the more abused, take at all cost units and upgrades.
I really dont see any major buffs coming to crons so this can mean only 1 thing ...

I see crons getting points decreases on many models and certain models getting more special rules (lychguard, praetorians, triarch)

I see tesla being reduced in power, Anni barges costing more, and nightscythes costing more.

New LoW will be a 'non necron' robot from the wraith family of friends.

Flayed ones will go down 2 points in cost, and gain scout or move through cover.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Wraiths are two attacks with one close combat weapon, right? Triarch Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters also have two attacks because they have two close combat weapons.

Wraiths are 3 attacks base.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Hm. That does change things slightly, but the Wraith still has more attacks, at higher strength, striking earlier. Why anyone would take a particle caster over whip coils, I do not know (you can't have both, ever).

Wraiths are two attacks with one close combat weapon, right? Triarch Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters also have two attacks because they have two close combat weapons.

Wraiths are three attacks base with no option for a second close combat weapon (they don't have one normally, so if they take a pistol they still only have one CCW).

A small note of interest: Triarch Praetorians are the only non-Imotekh model in the entire codex capable of using a dual-wield load out. The closest after that is Lychguard with sword and board, but because nobody at GW knows how shields work, they don't count.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Hm. That does change things slightly, but the Wraith still has more attacks, at higher strength, striking earlier. Why anyone would take a particle caster over whip coils, I do not know (you can't have both, ever).

Wraiths are two attacks with one close combat weapon, right? Triarch Praetorians with Voidblades and Particle Casters also have two attacks because they have two close combat weapons.

Wraiths have 3 attacks base.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Whip Coils are good, but people overestimate them a lot because they overlook that the coils only work against enemies in base contact, allowing enemies to prepare for a charge and get their strongest melee models out of B2B range. Also note that they increase the cost for a Wraith by 5 points / model on average.

Whip coils are 10 points per model. =P And if you're not putting them on every wraith, well what are you doing, man?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

blaktoof wrote:
I see crons getting points decreases on many models and certain models getting more special rules (lychguard, praetorians, triarch)

I see tesla being reduced in power, Anni barges costing more, and nightscythes costing more.

New LoW will be a 'non necron' robot from the wraith family of friends.

Flayed ones will go down 2 points in cost, and gain scout or move through cover.

1. I agree, more rules or equipment options hopefully.

2. As I've said in previous posts, if Tesla gets weaker AND they raise the cost of things that can take it, no one, I repeat, no one will use them.

3. LoW will probably be Imotehk, just hopefully they make him a bit more intimidating.

3. Even if they did this, I'd consider taking them.

I put whip coils on two out of three wraiths, since that's usually enough to drop the initiative of every model in B2B with any of my squad and lets me hold some back for supporting attacks.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I put whip coils on two out of three wraiths, since that's usually enough to drop the initiative of every model in B2B with any of my squad and lets me hold some back for supporting attacks.

I run four out of six models with whip coils. Usually at least two die before they get in range and even if they let them all make it through, it is difficult to get all wraiths into base contact without moving them as a great lump, making them vulnerable to s8+ blasts and stuff. Whip coils on all of them is usually just a waste of points.

I also do not think the voidblade praetorians are very good at fighting things. Low initiative coupled with a 3+ makes them rarely earn their points. Wraiths for fighting and scarabs for wrecking vehicles seem a lot more attractive to me. Especially if you put in a destroyer lord for the ap1 and mindshackle with the wraiths.

I would love for praetorians and lychguards to become a thing, though.

Ratflinger wrote:


I would love for praetorians and lychguards to become a thing, though.

As would I, as would I.

$50 Multi part Plastic C'Tan Shard box set, similar to demon prince kit.

 adamsouza wrote:
$50 Multi part Plastic C'Tan Shard box set, similar to demon prince kit.

As much as I love both my C'Tan' right now, I have to say I would buy at least 2 of those if they had it. I haven't heard this idea before, very good.

Dark Eldar is almost out, then Blood Angels soon after. God, Necrons will be here in no time.

We are always last or skipped over.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
We are always last or skipped over.

Well we won't be this time. Every dex will get a new one.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
We are always last or skipped over.

Back when the codex came out, they had to make an entire line of plastic models to support it.

Necrons got one of the best flyers in the game, back in 5th edition before anyone else, and was the most future proof codex to date. It's stood well in 5th, 6th, and 7th edition.

Honestly, aside from Warlord traits, a formation or two, and maybe a tweak here and there the Necron Codex isn't really in a screaming need of an update.

 adamsouza wrote:
Back when the codex came out, they had to make an entire line of plastic models to support it.

Not the entire line. The plastic Necron Warriors, Destroyers and the Monolith date back to 2002 and the 3rd edition codex. They did however receive a larger than usual number of plastic kits with their 5th edition codex in 2011.

 adamsouza wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
We are always last or skipped over.

Back when the codex came out, they had to make an entire line of plastic models to support it.

Necrons got one of the best flyers in the game, back in 5th edition before anyone else, and was the most future proof codex to date. It's stood well in 5th, 6th, and 7th edition.

Honestly, aside from Warlord traits, a formation or two, and maybe a tweak here and there the Necron Codex isn't really in a screaming need of an update.

It's not in need of an update, I know. But, I honestly would really like one. The only decent builds of the book require using a few units and that's it. I want price changes and making more than a few units actually viable.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
We are always last or skipped over.

Back when the codex came out, they had to make an entire line of plastic models to support it.

Necrons got one of the best flyers in the game, back in 5th edition before anyone else, and was the most future proof codex to date. It's stood well in 5th, 6th, and 7th edition.

Honestly, aside from Warlord traits, a formation or two, and maybe a tweak here and there the Necron Codex isn't really in a screaming need of an update.

It's not in need of an update, I know. But, I honestly would really like one. The only decent builds of the book require using a few units and that's it. I want price changes and making more than a few units actually viable.

I think it is funny that you say this about Necrons but in the "How Competitive are Necrons" thread you ask why people think Tyranids suck...

Honestly I expect Necron players to be extremely disappointed when we get a 7th update, if you look at the 7th codices thus far it is all about standardization and removing unique abilities. I would not be surprised to see MSS turn into a relic, Quantum Shielding turn into Stealth, Wraiths go up in points, Night Scythe's turn into AV10 all around, etc.

GW seems to have finally herd the cries of imbalance and decided to play it safe with the updates and make the general power level of the game go down, which I am okay with but at this rate it will be awhile before it is in actual effect.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
We are always last or skipped over.

Back when the codex came out, they had to make an entire line of plastic models to support it.

Necrons got one of the best flyers in the game, back in 5th edition before anyone else, and was the most future proof codex to date. It's stood well in 5th, 6th, and 7th edition.

Honestly, aside from Warlord traits, a formation or two, and maybe a tweak here and there the Necron Codex isn't really in a screaming need of an update.

It's not in need of an update, I know. But, I honestly would really like one. The only decent builds of the book require using a few units and that's it. I want price changes and making more than a few units actually viable.

I think it is funny that you say this about Necrons but in the "How Competitive are Necrons" thread you ask why people think Tyranids suck...

Honestly I expect Necron players to be extremely disappointed when we get a 7th update, if you look at the 7th codices thus far it is all about standardization and removing unique abilities. I would not be surprised to see MSS turn into a relic, Quantum Shielding turn into Stealth, Wraiths go up in points, Night Scythe's turn into AV10 all around, etc.

GW seems to have finally herd the cries of imbalance and decided to play it safe with the updates and make the general power level of the game go down, which I am okay with but at this rate it will be awhile before it is in actual effect.

Umm, because Tyranids don't suck. I've played various types of lists with various units, a lot of which people disregard most of the time, and have done really well. But with Necrons, if I used Destroyers, or Lychguard, or Flayed Ones, I would get my ass beat. They're expensive, and are outdone by most things.

And power level scaling down? Last I heard GK are still pretty stupid, Orks only got better, and so did Space Wolves. The only thing I've noticed is the fact that all the new codexes have really good internal balance, making for more varied lists, or making it harder to have an "auto-include" option. Yeah, they're removing unique abilities, but that's to be expected. It's easier to reference and if GW needs to change something, they change it in the BRB and it changes them across all codexes. Will Necrons lose some unique stuff? Probably. But Dark Eldar didn't lose all that much that we know of yet, and still have some cool, unique wargear. herefor, I have hope for Necrons.

But then, if they do butcher it, I will probably stop playing and this conversation really wouldn't have meant anything anyway.

I am really curious now about possible changes to RP and EL, given the simplification of Power from Pain for Dark Eldar. Now my initial thought of it being turned into a form of FNP suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I am really curious now about possible changes to RP and EL, given the simplification of Power from Pain for Dark Eldar. Now my initial thought of it being turned into a form of FNP suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched.

I hope to god not. It would be ignored by so much, and would nerf the hell out of the entire book.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I am really curious now about possible changes to RP and EL, given the simplification of Power from Pain for Dark Eldar. Now my initial thought of it being turned into a form of FNP suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched.

I hope to god not. It would be ignored by so much, and would nerf the hell out of the entire book.

While its certainly not a popular opinion, I can't help but think the days of RP and EL ignoring ID and removed from game effects are numbered, just judging by the last few codexes.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I am really curious now about possible changes to RP and EL, given the simplification of Power from Pain for Dark Eldar. Now my initial thought of it being turned into a form of FNP suddenly doesn't seem so far fetched.

I hope to god not. It would be ignored by so much, and would nerf the hell out of the entire book.

While its certainly not a popular opinion, I can't help but think the days of RP and EL ignoring ID and removed from game effects are numbered, just judging by the last few codexes.

Probably. Bu if they nerf RP and don't do anything else to Necrons, as far as a buff goes, Necrons will become terrible. They have decent shooting and are tough, but that's it. They suck in combat, and can still be just as easily killed as Space Marines, but without anything to help them out, they will be just plain bad.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I hope to god not. It would be ignored by so much, and would nerf the hell out of the entire book.

A FNP(5+) would be quite overpowered, especially when Orbs buff it to a 4+.

Kangodo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
I hope to god not. It would be ignored by so much, and would nerf the hell out of the entire book.

A FNP(5+) would be quite overpowered, especially when Orbs buff it to a 4+.

But, Instant Death ignores it, whereas currently it doesn't.

 krodarklorr wrote:
But, Instant Death ignores it, whereas currently it doesn't.

That is true, so now we have the following:

Con:
-ID ignores it

Pro:
-Harder to wipe a squad out
-Multi-wound characters are way way way better (2+/3++ with a FNP4+ on a T5, W3-model?)
-You can still hit in combat

Kangodo wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
But, Instant Death ignores it, whereas currently it doesn't.

That is true, so now we have the following:

Con:
-ID ignores it

Pro:
-Harder to wipe a squad out
-Multi-wound characters are way way way better (2+/3++ with a FNP4+ on a T5, W3-model?)
-You can still hit in combat

I suppose? But it would take away from the overall feel of Necrons. Which, I guess, arguably they've been doing with the 7th Ed. codexes anyway.

Ooh, I know!
I really don't want them to change anything about it, but for some reason quite a few people think it is overpowered and should be changed to FNP.
That is ironic because FNP would be a lot stronger unless you shoot with Melta, Krak and Lascannons at Warrior-blobs (in which case it's no wonder Necrons kick your ass all the time).

I've said it often enough: The only nerfs Necrons need are a price-increase on AB's, NS's and Wraiths.
Everything else just sounds strong if you haven't done the math on it.

 Ghaz wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Back when the codex came out, they had to make an entire line of plastic models to support it.

Not the entire line. The plastic Necron Warriors, Destroyers and the Monolith date back to 2002 and the 3rd edition codex. They did however receive a larger than usual number of plastic kits with their 5th edition codex in 2011.

Scarabs too. Those are also the same models.

Wraiths, Spyders and Flayed ones got completely redone

Necron Lords, Destroyer Lords and C'tan got turned into finecast.

Immortals were redone into plastic with a few modifications.

Pariahs got deleted ( )

Everything else is completely new.

Anyway, I would like to see more loadout options for warriors. They actually have fewer wargear options than the 3rd edition book, which is saying something.
Also, did I mention that I want pilots removed? The vehicles can still be open topped, it's just an option for a mechanical core like thing instead of a dude would be nice.
I would do it myself, but It will look like crap, like the time I tried sealing up the flyer's cockpit (which isn't even opentopped, so idk why the pilot is exposed :S)

Massive Nerf across the board.
I hate Necrons.


More seriously though, mindshackle scarabs are going to take a big hit.
Barges for sure, CCB is pure rule abuse (not codex fault though, just v7) and AB is way undercosted.
Flyers will get a nerf / price raise.
Wraith may also get one, they've been in every single list.

Tesla snap fire will go down to one hit on 4+ or maybe one hit but that would already be too kind from GW. It's currently breaking Jink, Hard to Hit and Invisibility (which is broken too but two wrongs don't make a right)
Immotekh's bs lightning will now allow for cover and jink saves. He will be forbidden from entering 2500+ points games.
Deathmarks price increase. Your snipers are the same cost as mine, but wound on 2+ on one target, have a 3+ save and deep strike ? no way.

Flayed ones get a buff for sure, monolith may also get one.

I've talked a lot about MSS with people.
And my prediction is: Lords and Overlords will get a gigantic buff, including MSS, but because it's worded differently people will think they got nerfed.

Deathmarks price-increase?
5 Scouts with Snipers are 60 points.
5 Deathmark are 95.
They gain Deep Strike, Hunters Mark and a 3+ with RP.
And they don't have Scout, Infiltrate, Move Through Cover, ability to take heavy weapons and have 12" less range.
If anything I expect a drop to 18 ppm.

Kangodo wrote:
Ooh, I know!
I really don't want them to change anything about it, but for some reason quite a few people think it is overpowered and should be changed to FNP.
That is ironic because FNP would be a lot stronger unless you shoot with Melta, Krak and Lascannons at Warrior-blobs (in which case it's no wonder Necrons kick your ass all the time).

I've said it often enough: The only nerfs Necrons need are a price-increase on AB's, NS's and Wraiths.
Everything else just sounds strong if you haven't done the math on it.

Its not so much that RP/EL is overpowered, its just the current mechanic is clunky and breaks a few core mechanics and has more than its share of likely unforeseen and unintended advantages. Its already been pointed out that FNP is actually more advantageous but it works better within the framework of the rules.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Scarabs too. Those are also the same models.

Considering that they're a part of the Necron Warriors kit I thought that was a given

Kangodo wrote:


I've said it often enough: The only nerfs Necrons need are a price-increase on AB's, NS's and Wraiths.
Everything else just sounds strong if you haven't done the math on it.

I can agree to this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:
Massive Nerf across the board.
I hate Necrons.


More seriously though, mindshackle scarabs are going to take a big hit.
Barges for sure, CCB is pure rule abuse (not codex fault though, just v7) and AB is way undercosted.
Flyers will get a nerf / price raise.
Wraith may also get one, they've been in every single list.

Tesla snap fire will go down to one hit on 4+ or maybe one hit but that would already be too kind from GW. It's currently breaking Jink, Hard to Hit and Invisibility (which is broken too but two wrongs don't make a right)
Immotekh's bs lightning will now allow for cover and jink saves. He will be forbidden from entering 2500+ points games.
Deathmarks price increase. Your snipers are the same cost as mine, but wound on 2+ on one target, have a 3+ save and deep strike ? no way.

Flayed ones get a buff for sure, monolith may also get one.

What you forget is, nerfing something AND raising the points cost, will limit, if not stop the use of the unit all together. And what army do you even play? Because I'm pretty sure you have plenty of options to deal with Necron's stuff, and are probably just butt hurt about losing a few times to Necrons.

Yes, the Command Barge needs a price increase and some rules changes, sure. MSS will stay, but get worded differently so it actually works decent. Otherwise, 90 points for an Overlord with gakky combat abilities? No. Simply, no.

And Deathmarks are not as amazing as you make them out to be. Yes, they can deep strike, yes they can wound ONE unit on a 2+. They have 24" guns. And will typically be out in the open. They can't act like generic snipers, and will probably get shot to bits as soon as they come out.

Imotehk is also a 225 point named character that is gakky in CC, has a one time use shooting attack, and a flamer. I'm okay with him having ONE good ability. Will they change the wording and effect slightly? Sure. Otherwise, he'll become a LoW and that'll be the end of it.

 krodarklorr wrote:

What you forget is, nerfing something AND raising the points cost, will limit, if not stop the use of the unit all together. And what army do you even play? Because I'm pretty sure you have plenty of options to deal with Necron's stuff, and are probably just butt hurt about losing a few times to Necrons.

Yes, the Command Barge needs a price increase and some rules changes, sure. MSS will stay, but get worded differently so it actually works decent. Otherwise, 90 points for an Overlord with gakky combat abilities? No. Simply, no.

And Deathmarks are not as amazing as you make them out to be. Yes, they can deep strike, yes they can wound ONE unit on a 2+. They have 24" guns. And will typically be out in the open. They can't act like generic snipers, and will probably get shot to bits as soon as they come out.

Imotehk is also a 225 point named character that is gakky in CC, has a one time use shooting attack, and a flamer. I'm okay with him having ONE good ability. Will they change the wording and effect slightly? Sure. Otherwise, he'll become a LoW and that'll be the end of it.

Raising the cost is nerfing something, so it's the same thing, so no need to do it twice.

I have plenty of options and I generally don't care about the Necrons (or any army for that matter).

The Command Barge is utterly broken, MSS are utterly broken, they make just about any real CC threat afraid of a single gakky necron lord. how much sense does that make to you ? for 15 points ?
No point talking about naked overlords, the upgrade to phaeron for example is already a big load of bull, as it unlocks way undercosted units.

Deathmarks are shotguns not snipers, they may not be amazing but their ability to deep strike and one shot MCs isn't too bad. Probably not good enough to be nerfed though you're right.

Imotekh is a problem because his ability ignores most game mechanics AND scales with the size of the battle. On a 90K points Apocalypse battlefield, he's worth 5k points at the very least.
That makes him useless in small games and completely OP in big games.


And I also hope they fix the death ray / reword it so it doesn't just hit invisible / flyers.

That Space Wolf-chariot is way, way better than the CCB. So I wouldn't really expect a nerf if I were you.

Please tell me how a squad of ASM are afraid of a Lord with MSS.
He will just Shackle the worst model of the squad and then you wipe the entire group out.
And what's the deal with Phaeron? It has to be one of the worst upgrades in the entire Codex.

The space wolf chariot looks ridiculous, that's a heavy tax.
The CCB basically gives the lord 6HP plus immunity to small arms fire plus ... come on.

ASM are not good assault troops, that's why they don't really care.

Try a daemon prince or a Kharn or some really violent CC unit, it can't handle D3 + special abilities hits of its own weapons plus the Necron lord.

Phaeron gives you access to royal courts, which have "nice" options.
For 25 points you get a stormtek who has a Voltaic staff (12" S5 Assault 4 Haywire). That's serious bs there.
For 30 points you get a despairtek with an abyssal staff (template S8AP1, wound on leadership, does nothing to vehicles).

Or it can get a Veil of darkness (total 55 points) which allows him to Gate of Infinity for free and without any risk of dispel.

So MSS is only a threat if your single model unit gets charged by a Destroyer Lord with MSS that is always accompanied by 6 Wraiths?
I think MSS would be the least of your worries.

With ASM I was more aiming at any CC-unit that consists of 5 or more models.
You sacrifice the worst model from the unit and then wipe out the entire Necron-blob.
My Blood Angels are never afraid of MSS, but that is probably because I know how easy it is to counter MSS.

No, Phaeron does not give you access to Royal Courts.
Being a (named) Overlord gives you access to Royal Courts, Phaeron gives your unit Relentless.
Despairteks are only an issue when used with Deathmarks and Veil of Darkness is hardly used because it's 60 points in total.
Voltaic Staff could become Assault 3, but they still suffer from the "Overlord-tax", which isn't as bad as it used to be now that we have CCB.

morgoth wrote:
The space wolf chariot looks ridiculous, that's a heavy tax.
The CCB basically gives the lord 6HP plus immunity to small arms fire plus ... come on.

ASM are not good assault troops, that's why they don't really care.

Try a daemon prince or a Kharn or some really violent CC unit, it can't handle D3 + special abilities hits of its own weapons plus the Necron lord.

Phaeron gives you access to royal courts, which have "nice" options.
For 25 points you get a stormtek who has a Voltaic staff (12" S5 Assault 4 Haywire). That's serious bs there.
For 30 points you get a despairtek with an abyssal staff (template S8AP1, wound on leadership, does nothing to vehicles).

Or it can get a Veil of darkness (total 55 points) which allows him to Gate of Infinity for free and without any risk of dispel.

If you don't want to face MSS then perhaps use guns on the model and don't just rely on the melee monster to autowin combat. Without MSS the Necron lord would e utterly useless I feel.
You talk about Royal courts being amazing for their points cost. They may be but Necons can't use paychic powers or even deny the opponents psychic phase really so we have Crypteka which are a joke (even forh eir cost) compared to armies with the ability to use invisibility.

We can gate of Infinity easily? See my above point, so can you.

I guess I misunderstood the overlord / phaeron thingy then my bad.

Yeah it's so easy to counter MSS. Challenge ?
Damn, now your über CC machine is either not fighting or nuking itself / own unit or maybe fighting.

Overlord-tax ? seriously ? you pay a tax to get wildly undercosted units ? .. I think that's fine. That tax is free when taking a CCB lord anyway.

morgoth wrote:

Phaeron gives you access to royal courts, which have "nice" options.

No it doesn't. It just gives relentless.

seism85 wrote:

If you don't want to face MSS then perhaps use guns on the model and don't just rely on the melee monster to autowin combat. Without MSS the Necron lord would e utterly useless I feel.
You talk about Royal courts being amazing for their points cost. They may be but Necons can't use paychic powers or even deny the opponents psychic phase really so we have Crypteka which are a joke (even forh eir cost) compared to armies with the ability to use invisibility.

We can gate of Infinity easily? See my above point, so can you.

I use guns on them, I'm just saying they're broken, not everyone has a chance to dodge that fight.
The Necron lord is nowhere near bad. Want awful HQ choices ? come to codex Eldar, witness the almighty power of a 70 point HQ that can't do gak, has S3/T3 and a pitiful save.
Necrons don't have DTW ?
What do you care about invisibility, you're a Necron, half or more of your weapons do 50% DPS against invisibility and flyers.

morgoth wrote:
I guess I misunderstood the overlord / phaeron thingy then my bad.

Yeah it's so easy to counter MSS. Challenge ?
Damn, now your über CC machine is either not fighting or nuking itself / own unit or maybe fighting.

Use a sergeant to absorb the MSS, murder the rest of the squad with the beatstick.

If he has 2 MSS, then great, he just spent at least 165 points protecting 1 squad from close combat.

But yes, necron lords and overlords aren't terrible. I would like to see some decent ranged options, but other than that they are fine.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

morgoth wrote:
I guess I misunderstood the overlord / phaeron thingy then my bad.

Yeah it's so easy to counter MSS. Challenge ?
Damn, now your über CC machine is either not fighting or nuking itself / own unit or maybe fighting.

Use a sergeant to absorb the MSS, murder the rest of the squad with the beatstick.

If he has 2 MSS, then great, he just spent at least 165 points protecting 1 squad from close combat.

I'm glad you have a sergeant.
It's a valid point for some armies though so why not.

morgoth wrote:

seism85 wrote:

If you don't want to face MSS then perhaps use guns on the model and don't just rely on the melee monster to autowin combat. Without MSS the Necron lord would e utterly useless I feel.
You talk about Royal courts being amazing for their points cost. They may be but Necons can't use paychic powers or even deny the opponents psychic phase really so we have Crypteka which are a joke (even forh eir cost) compared to armies with the ability to use invisibility.

We can gate of Infinity easily? See my above point, so can you.

I use guns on them, I'm just saying they're broken, not everyone has a chance to dodge that fight.
The Necron lord is nowhere near bad. Want awful HQ choices ? come to codex Eldar, witness the almighty power of a 70 point HQ that can't do gak, has S3/T3 and a pitiful save.
Necrons don't have DTW ?
What do you care about invisibility, you're a Necron, half or more of your weapons do 50% DPS against invisibility and flyers.

Hahahahhahaha! Sure i'll use my 6 (maximum) dice to deny the 10 that you just threw at invis. What's that? You passed 5 times because you only need a 4+? Sure i'll DTW with my 6 dice (if i'm lucky) to try for five sixes, oh look i only got one. Damn now that was completley fair.

Sure i can spend my whole turn trying to kill you one invis unit that will most likley survive the onslought anyway while the rest of your army decimates me. Let's see if i have any real solutions that. I could MSS you, oh but you also only hit yourselfselves on sixes. I could throw some auto hit weaponry at you, ah damn can't use those when firing at BS 1. I could use tesla on you, hey look i hit you 12 times WITH EVERYTHING I HAVE. What's that? You just made your armour saves because tesla has no AP? Oh darn i guess i only get 3 wounds through but that's enough to kill what i need to right? Not when you lookout sir you psyker onto those amazing marine armour saves.

To be fair this is only an issue when facing The IoM.

seism85, if your opponent throws 10 dice at invis, you've already won.

You can just run around killing everything else and wait for the time he misses.

morgoth wrote:
I guess I misunderstood the overlord / phaeron thingy then my bad.

Yeah it's so easy to counter MSS. Challenge ?
Damn, now your über CC machine is either not fighting or nuking itself / own unit or maybe fighting.

Overlord-tax ? seriously ? you pay a tax to get wildly undercosted units ? .. I think that's fine. That tax is free when taking a CCB lord anyway.

If you take the charge, you can decide to resolve MSS first.
Tadaaa!

Kangodo wrote:

If you take the charge, you can decide to resolve MSS first.
Tadaaa!

But of course... one of the BRB's very slowed rules. Everything makes sense now.

I don't know if I'll ever think that way tbh. Good to know anyway.

Either way, with your wraith, that's unlikely right

morgoth wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

What you forget is, nerfing something AND raising the points cost, will limit, if not stop the use of the unit all together. And what army do you even play? Because I'm pretty sure you have plenty of options to deal with Necron's stuff, and are probably just butt hurt about losing a few times to Necrons.

Yes, the Command Barge needs a price increase and some rules changes, sure. MSS will stay, but get worded differently so it actually works decent. Otherwise, 90 points for an Overlord with gakky combat abilities? No. Simply, no.

And Deathmarks are not as amazing as you make them out to be. Yes, they can deep strike, yes they can wound ONE unit on a 2+. They have 24" guns. And will typically be out in the open. They can't act like generic snipers, and will probably get shot to bits as soon as they come out.

Imotehk is also a 225 point named character that is gakky in CC, has a one time use shooting attack, and a flamer. I'm okay with him having ONE good ability. Will they change the wording and effect slightly? Sure. Otherwise, he'll become a LoW and that'll be the end of it.

Raising the cost is nerfing something, so it's the same thing, so no need to do it twice.

I have plenty of options and I generally don't care about the Necrons (or any army for that matter).

The Command Barge is utterly broken, MSS are utterly broken, they make just about any real CC threat afraid of a single gakky necron lord. how much sense does that make to you ? for 15 points ?
No point talking about naked overlords, the upgrade to phaeron for example is already a big load of bull, as it unlocks way undercosted units.

Deathmarks are shotguns not snipers, they may not be amazing but their ability to deep strike and one shot MCs isn't too bad. Probably not good enough to be nerfed though you're right.

Imotekh is a problem because his ability ignores most game mechanics AND scales with the size of the battle. On a 90K points Apocalypse battlefield, he's worth 5k points at the very least.
That makes him useless in small games and completely OP in big games.


And I also hope they fix the death ray / reword it so it doesn't just hit invisible / flyers.

Well, most people have talked about Nerfing Tesla AND still raising the cost of Annihilation Barges. No one would take them at that point.

The Command Barge needs reworking, yes. MSS needs to be reworded or something, you're right. But they shouldn't just outright get rid of it, without making Necron Overlords better in CC, or make them shooty, or something. As it stands they're best in CC, which is sad considering they still suck at it. And are you really complaining about Phaeron? The upgrade is useless most of the time.

Deathmarks are, arguably, our only real defense against things like Wraithknights, Trygons, Riptides, Dreadknights, ext. Anything with high Toughness and a good Armor save we suck at killing, and that's where Deathmarks come in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:


Yeah it's so easy to counter MSS. Challenge ?
Damn, now your über CC machine is either not fighting or nuking itself / own unit or maybe fighting.
.

MSS doesn't work as well in challenges anymore. The rules for Challenges says you're counted as being in bas with the opponent, but can still be in base with other models, and therefor you have to randomly determine the target of MSS. Me and my girlfriend swapped armies and I used that against her. I had a Sorcerer and a Termy in base with the overlord. 2/3 of the turns of combat it randomized on the Termy and not the guy in the challenge.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Deathmarks are, arguably, our only real defense against things like Wraithknights, Trygons, Riptides, Dreadknights, ext. Anything with high Toughness and a good Armor save we suck at killing, and that's where Deathmarks come in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

morgoth wrote:


Yeah it's so easy to counter MSS. Challenge ?
Damn, now your über CC machine is either not fighting or nuking itself / own unit or maybe fighting.
.

MSS doesn't work as well in challenges anymore. The rules for Challenges says you're counted as being in bas with the opponent, but can still be in base with other models, and therefor you have to randomly determine the target of MSS. Me and my girlfriend swapped armies and I used that against her. I had a Sorcerer and a Termy in base with the overlord. 2/3 of the turns of combat it randomized on the Termy and not the guy in the challenge.

1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

2. Nope, the BRB says you should move your models:

If a challenge has been accepted, it is time to move the two combatants into base contact with each other. Note that these moves cannot be used to move a character out of unit coherency. If possible, swap the challenger for a friendly model in base contact with the challengee. If this cannot be done, swap the challengee for a friendly model in base contact with the challenger.

morgoth wrote:

1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

2. Nope, the BRB says you should move your models:

If a challenge has been accepted, it is time to move the two combatants into base contact with each other. Note that these moves cannot be used to move a character out of unit coherency. If possible, swap the challenger for a friendly model in base contact with the challengee. If this cannot be done, swap the challengee for a friendly model in base contact with the challenger.

Yes, yes they can. They can do that once, and then die horribly. But GW can get rid of them or nerf them if they want, as long as they do the same to Grav Guns.

And yeah, that is how challenges work now. You can also attack into a challenge, and therefor you're in base contact. It also doesn't say you count as being in base with ONLY the challenger. So, there are a bunch of ways to get around MSS.

Necrons existed in the rogue trader days and as a small army in 2nd edition.m the full Necron codex was the last of the existing armies to get full codex treatment other than Tau which were introduced as a new race. We were not updated in 4th at all and the last codex in 5th, which was also written with 6th edition in mind. It will be no different for 7th edition with regards to getting a new hardback codex. And if you enjoy spamming the small amount of actually useful units than you're in a necron a heaven. If you enjoy using a monoliths, C'tan, and destroyers, you're wasting away in necrons hell with me.

morgoth wrote:
1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

Well, 10 Deathmarks (assuming rapid fire):

20 shots
2/3 to hit
(1/3 wound, MC gets a save, 1/6 rend)
So, ~3 wounds on a MC with a 2+ save, 3.7 wounds on a MC with a 3+ save.
On average, most MCs will survive, albeit injured.
And, that's not counting the possibility of Cover, Invulnerable saves or FNP.

Hardly blasting away any MC in the game, let alone with insane efficiency.

I would love for a C'tan rework. Make it cheaper naked by about 20-35pts and don't give it a mandatory two power requirement and remove the limit of you can only take each power once per army. Still amke it you can only pick up to two different powers though. I want an unbound C'tan shard army dang it!

Oh and give it more weapon options then what it currently has. Make lord of fire have a heavy flamer or two and bump pts accordingly. Give Writhing worldscape a range entropic strike attack S4 ap- assault 3. Maybe make swarm of spirit dust give it invisable instead of stealth or give invisible to grand illusion? And give the thunderbolt tesla?

I feel giving it a strong offensive power to compensate for its very sad armor and invul save

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:
1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

Well, 10 Deathmarks (assuming rapid fire):

20 shots
2/3 to hit
(1/3 wound, MC gets a save, 1/6 rend)
So, ~3 wounds on a MC with a 2+ save, 3.7 wounds on a MC with a 3+ save.
On average, most MCs will survive, albeit injured.
And, that's not counting the possibility of Cover, Invulnerable saves or FNP.

Hardly blasting away any MC in the game, let alone with insane efficiency.

This makes me feel bad about only fielding 5 of them, and rethink the value of 190 points to field 10 of them.

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:
1. Deathmarks will one-turn blast away any MC in the game with insane efficiency. I don't think it's just your only real defense, it's clearly crazy good against tyranids.

Well, 10 Deathmarks (assuming rapid fire):

20 shots
2/3 to hit
(1/3 wound, MC gets a save, 1/6 rend)
So, ~3 wounds on a MC with a 2+ save, 3.7 wounds on a MC with a 3+ save.
On average, most MCs will survive, albeit injured.
And, that's not counting the possibility of Cover, Invulnerable saves or FNP.

Hardly blasting away any MC in the game, let alone with insane efficiency.

...and don't forget about the looming mishap when you're forced to deepstrike 12'' close to your enemy.

Well, those 10 Deathmarks are very good value against competitive units like WK and Riptide, amazing against Tyranids (I guess) but I guess they're not as crazy as some other Necron units.

I just can't help but think I'd rather have them than Eldar Rangers (which I don't feel like fielding).

I apologise - I made a mistake earlier in my maths. I completely forgot about the Deathmark's 'Declare Target' ability (whatever it's called), which lets them wound on 2+.

So, if the MC is their target, then they average 3.7 wounds on a 2+ save MC, and 5 wounds on a 3+ save MC (assuming no FNP, Invulnerable or Cover).

Sorry about that.

morgoth wrote:
Well, those 10 Deathmarks are very good value against competitive units like WK and Riptide, amazing against Tyranids (I guess) but I guess they're not as crazy as some other Necron units.

I just can't help but think I'd rather have them than Eldar Rangers (which I don't feel like fielding).

Yeah, they're really only good at taking out MCs, other than that, eh. But they're also our only defense against them, really. We don't have much else that can easily deal with MCs, especially the Wraith Knight.

Plastic Royal Court Box set
$50 US 5 models (1 overlord and 4 lords/crypteks)

 adamsouza wrote:
Plastic Royal Court Box set
$50 US 5 models (1 overlord and 4 lords/crypteks)

*Shudders*

calling it now

Necron Codex
30 pounds / 39 euros / 49.50 USD // 150zł

Overlord Edition (Limited Edition: 1000)
- Codex Necrons
- Grim Dark Fiction
- 6 akrylowych markerów / 6 objective markers
- karty oddziałów na specjalnym papierze / folio containing units datacards
- sztywne twarde etui na to wszystko / hardback slipcase
110 pounds / 145 euros / 180 USD // 550zł

Trancendant C'Tan Edition (Limited Edition: 500)
- Codex Necrons
- Grim Dark Fiction
- Dark Harvest Supplement
- 6 akrylowych markerów / 6 objective markers
- karty oddziałów na specjalnym papierze / folio containing units datacards
- sztywne twarde etui na to wszystko / hardback slipcase
150 pounds / 200 euros / 250 USD // 750zł

Data Cards
5 pounds / 6.50 euros / 8 USD // 25zł

Obligatory Troop + Transport Bundle
8 Necron Warrios plus Ghost Ark
70 USD

Obligatory Troop + Transport Bundle
5 Immortals plus Night Scythe
70 USD

Deathmarks / Immortals
10 models
35 pounds / 45 euros / 60 USD // 180zł

Lychguard / Triarch Praetorians
10 models
35 pounds / 45 euros / 60 USD // 180zł

New Models ?

Flayed Ones (now multipart Plastic)
10 models
35 pounds / 45 euros / 60 USD // 180zł

Royal Court Box Set
5 Models ( 1 overlord and 4 lords/ crypteks)
$53

Why do i find that painfully easy to believe?

I'm hoping for a Necron update similar to the Dark Eldar one.

As for Lord of War, Necrons already have a plastic lord of war kit that makes 3 options, so I imagine the Obelisk/tesseract Vault to be in the cron book. I'd also love to see the C'Tan shard/Transcendant stan merged to make a LoW choice that is more powerful than a C'Tan shard but not utterly stupid strong like the Tran-C'Tan is now.

So...anyone else wanting lore changes?

I would like the function of the dolmen gates to go from transportation to an offensive weapon.
Think about it: instead of using the webway to travel (which is dumb), the dolmen gates could instead be used as a way of fighting the Eldar's mobility, by opening a breach in the webway and flooding it with a null field, causing it to collapse.

Basically, I want it to become a depth charge.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'm hoping for a Necron update similar to the Dark Eldar one.

As for Lord of War, Necrons already have a plastic lord of war kit that makes 3 options, so I imagine the Obelisk/tesseract Vault to be in the cron book. I'd also love to see the C'Tan shard/Transcendant stan merged to make a LoW choice that is more powerful than a C'Tan shard but not utterly stupid strong like the Tran-C'Tan is now.

Eh, I would kind of like to have two separate models still. I'd like one that's useable in regular games without people complaining about it, though I still wish the regular C'tan could use a boost or something.

I'd like to see Pariahs return as part of the Royal Court.

Being able to add one to each squad would make Necrons the Anti Pysker Army

 adamsouza wrote:
I'd like to see Pariahs return as part of the Royal Court.

Being able to add one to each squad would make Necrons the Anti Pysker Army

Would make sense, and I'd like to see Pariahs come back, regardless of how.

Perhaps they can be an escort for a cryptek? Like, may have 1 pariah for each cryptek in the army?

I don't want them to become necrons though. I want them to be like how they were fluff wise in the old dex; humans with the pariah gene who were turned into a specific type of unit. For extra horror factor they can even have their brain intact.

Personally generally accepting there will be nerfs across the board, IE Grey Knights and DE but if Pariahs come back with a plastic kit and the same rules as Culexus Assassins(minus the gun) I'll be very happy!

Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Personally generally accepting there will be nerfs across the board, IE Grey Knights and DE but if Pariahs come back with a plastic kit and the same rules as Culexus Assassins(minus the gun) I'll be very happy!

Across the board? I'd be upset if more than three, perhaps four, units were nerfed.
That'd be AB's, NS's, Wraiths and perhaps, really perhaps, even Ghost Arks a little.

What I mean is anything perceived to be OP will be nerfed like the DE and GK were nerfed. In general I expect to see point increases on most quality units. I hope that it's not true and they make they low tier units like a Destroyers, Praetorians, Monoliths etc. playable and even desirable again. Just not holding my breath or expecting it in any way. I hope to be pleasantly surprised. Would love to see a return to the mindless no Dynasty nature of the 3rd edition codex. Just not sure how GW can right the narrative ship considering the nature of the 5th edition models.

Oberron wrote:
Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

Yes, please.

Doubling down on the return of Pariahs. Just bought a squad of 10 on EBay.

I'm either going to be ahead of the pack or have 10 new Crypteks

Oberron wrote:
Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

That rule is basically in place because the model doesn't support Immortals aesthetically. They won't be fixing that unless Forge World plans on making a conversion kit(not likely), that model is the biggest PITA of a kit I have ever had to put together, twice. I like the idea of repairing Immortals but carrying them is doubtful, maybe an Immortal transport or deep strike ability?

Kangodo wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Personally generally accepting there will be nerfs across the board, IE Grey Knights and DE but if Pariahs come back with a plastic kit and the same rules as Culexus Assassins(minus the gun) I'll be very happy!

Across the board? I'd be upset if more than three, perhaps four, units were nerfed.
That'd be AB's, NS's, Wraiths and perhaps, really perhaps, even Ghost Arks a little.

CCB's, Doom Scythes, Night Scythes
CCB should get a fix
Night Scythe +50 points cost easily
Doom Scythe Death Ray fix, cost increase.

morgoth wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Personally generally accepting there will be nerfs across the board, IE Grey Knights and DE but if Pariahs come back with a plastic kit and the same rules as Culexus Assassins(minus the gun) I'll be very happy!

Across the board? I'd be upset if more than three, perhaps four, units were nerfed.
That'd be AB's, NS's, Wraiths and perhaps, really perhaps, even Ghost Arks a little.

CCB's, Doom Scythes, Night Scythes
CCB should get a fix
Night Scythe +50 points cost easily
Doom Scythe Death Ray fix, cost increase.

I hate to admit it, but I do agree with the points increases, maybe not to that extent, but something. And, if that's all they do, and otherwise leave Tesla untouched, then I'll be fine with it.

If Orks and Grey Knights are indicators of what we have in store, we can expect all the sub-par units to get a slight point decrease and possible addition of an extra special rule to make them more desireable.

I expect Mind Shackle Scarabs to get better clarification. People who know how they work well, know how to avoid them, and those that are not really familiar with them feel like they are OP when they they get hit with them. Serioulsy, the only time I ever lost a model to MSS was the first time I encountered them, and yes I bitched they were OP when it happened.

I don't expect any major changes to Necron vehicles, other than possible small point bumps

 adamsouza wrote:
If Orks and Grey Knights are indicators of what we have in store, we can expect all the sub-par units to get a slight point decrease and possible addition of an extra special rule to make them more desireable.

I expect Mind Shackle Scarabs to get better clarification. People who know how they work well, know how to avoid them, and those that are not really familiar with them feel like they are OP when they they get hit with them. Serioulsy, the only time I ever lost a model to MSS was the first time I encountered them, and yes I bitched they were OP when it happened.

I don't expect any major changes to Necron vehicles, other than possible small point bumps

I hope they make our mediocre units slightly better and cheaper, as most of them are far too expensive. I also just hope we don't lose that much, and maybe gain some new weapons (Some lower AP weapons could be nice). And yeah, the vehicles I don't see much changing to them besides point changes.

Praetoreans and Lychguard have just get to be buffed some how, they are beautiful models that just no one is fielding.

I've seen more Praetorean/Lychguard models used as Crypteks than what they are intended for.

The more I think about it, the more I'm feeling the return of Pariahs. 7th Edition is the height of Psychic Powers since 2nd edition and Necrons have no dog in that fight. If ANY army should be anti psyker it should probably be Necrons.

I'm also feeling a supplement. All the Xeno armies have a supplemental codex

A reason to field Flayed Ones would be nice. they're so cool!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
maybe a Severed Dynasty supplement.

 Pyeatt wrote:
A reason to field Flayed Ones would be nice. they're so cool!

Initiative 5 ?

 adamsouza wrote:

 Pyeatt wrote:
A reason to field Flayed Ones would be nice. they're so cool!

Initiative 5 ?

That would help. Maybe Rending or some AP value would be nice... There's just so many other things to do with the Elite slot. Stalkers, tomb guard, C'tan shard... I want a reason to field a cool looking unit.

I have resigned myself to the dread that the codex is going to get heavily nerfed for no reason other than the flayer spam domination from yesteryear lingering in people's minds.

I've even stopped painting the pile of necron models I have in the event I sell out of the army.

Reguardless of how the new codex turns out we'll at least a dozen people complaining it's crap here on DakkaDakka and throwing their armies up on Ebay.

I'm kind of looking forward to it, since I only have 2 scythes and could use a few more

 adamsouza wrote:
Reguardless of how the new codex turns out we'll at least a dozen people complaining it's crap here on DakkaDakka and throwing their armies up on Ebay.

I'm kind of looking forward to it, since I only have 2 scythes and could use a few more

Not me, I'm actually looking forward to discussing my two favourite armies instead of the "herp derp, everything sucks and the world will end" that has been infecting both threads

This is what I expect in the next Necron codex:

- RP replaced by IWND.

- Gauss replaced by Shred.

- Entropic Strike replaced by Tank Hunters.

- Flayed Ones become 15pts per model and lose Deep Strike.

- MSS become 'User has the Fear special rule when in a Challenge'.

- Solar Pulse increases to 30pts.

- Deathmarks lose the 'Hunters from Hyperspace' special rule.

- Quantum Shielding becomes Stealth.

- Staff of Light changed to 2 S4 AP5 shots.

Warlord Table:
1) Warlord causes Fear.
2) Warlord gains +1I
3) +1 to the first IWND roll for the warlord.
4) The warlord's shooting weapons gains the Master Crafted special rule.
5) The warlord can make d3 additional WS2 S2 attacks when in combat. These attacks do not benefit from any weapons the Warlord is wielding.
6) The Warlord has +1S.

-RP and IWND are two completely different things and the latter doesn't work on 1W models.
-Entropic Strike and Tank Hunter are also two completely different things and nearly every weapon/model with ES has no use of Tank Hunter.
-Are you really suggesting a NERF to Flayed Ones? Also known as "the worst unit in the entire codex"..
-A nerf to the weapon that we also like to call "not Warscythe"?
-That QS to Stealth would actively destroy the entire vehicle department of the army.
-And no, that Warlord table..

Are you serious or is this just one of the hundred troll-posts in this thread?

Kangodo wrote:
-RP and IWND are two completely different things and the latter doesn't work on 1W models.
-Entropic Strike and Tank Hunter are also two completely different things and nearly every weapon/model with ES has no use of Tank Hunter.
-Are you really suggesting a NERF to Flayed Ones? Also known as "the worst unit in the entire codex"..
-A nerf to the weapon that we also like to call "not Warscythe"?
-That QS to Stealth would actively destroy the entire vehicle department of the army.
-And no, that Warlord table..

Are you serious or is this just one of the hundred troll-posts in this thread?

It's not what I want to happen or what I hope will happen (I believe I've covered both earlier).

I'm saying what I expect GW to do to necrons.

 vipoid wrote:
This is what I expect in the next Necron codex:
- RP replaced by IWND.
- Gauss replaced by Shred.
- Entropic Strike replaced by Tank Hunters.
- Flayed Ones become 15pts per model and lose Deep Strike.
- MSS become 'User has the Fear special rule when in a Challenge'.
- Solar Pulse increases to 30pts.
- Deathmarks lose the 'Hunters from Hyperspace' special rule.
- Quantum Shielding becomes Stealth.
- Staff of Light changed to 2 S4 AP5 shots.
Warlord Table:
1) Warlord causes Fear.
2) Warlord gains +1I
3) +1 to the first IWND roll for the warlord.
4) The warlord's shooting weapons gains the Master Crafted special rule.
5) The warlord can make d3 additional WS2 S2 attacks when in combat. These attacks do not benefit from any weapons the Warlord is wielding.
6) The Warlord has +1S.

You expect GW to competely destroy one of their better and well received codex?

GW may not care about us, but they aren't going to destroy the sales of their Necrons for no reason either.

That list looks like it a wishlist of someone who wants Necrons nerfed into oblivion. It has things on it (Flayed ones, Staff of Light) that are already reguarded as terrible.

 adamsouza wrote:


That list looks like it a wishlist of someone who wants Necrons nerfed into oblivion. It has things on it (Flayed ones, Staff of Light) that are already reguarded as terrible.

It is indeed a Necron hatelist

Aite. Aite I'm gonna blow some minds.

The Monolith as a Lord of War. Price it at ~450 points, give it some Baneblade scale firepower and toughness, and some army wide buffs why not.

 adamsouza wrote:

You expect GW to competely destroy one of their better and well received codex?

Yes. Either intentionally for reasons known only to them, or because they genuinely think rules like Fear are good.

 adamsouza wrote:

GW may not care about us, but they aren't going to destroy the sales of their Necrons for no reason either.

If anything, they'll do it to make you buy either allies or some supplement that's basically Codex: Necrons (good version).

 adamsouza wrote:

That list looks like it a wishlist of someone who wants Necrons nerfed into oblivion. It has things on it (Flayed ones, Staff of Light) that are already reguarded as terrible.

You're right - games workshop is always quick to fix bad units and wargear. Just look at the pyrovore - it went from 'terrible' to 'paperweight'. Or Rough Riders, which went from underpowered to outright terrible. Or, our own flayed ones, which were bad in the last book and... are still bad in this one. Or, most recently, Wyches - which were terrible in combat, but good at taking down tanks. GW 'fixed' them by making them even worse in combat, and removing their ability to take down tanks.

Sorry if I don't have much confidence in GW improving our bad units.

GW seems to have an idea in mind of how each codex is supposed to be played, and has taken to nerfing everything that isn't that:

IG: Tank gunline
Tyranids: Flying monstrous creatures, DLC Endless Swarm
Space Wolves: Wolves riding giant wolves, with a sleigh pulled by giant wolves. And Murder.
Dark Eldar: Coven

They keep one viable route, and nerf the ever living gak out of everything else, stripping customization, flavour of any unique elements along the way. Given how they changed IG orders to be on the same power level, with the same abilities as psychic powers (unlike before where they were noticeably weaker), I'd expect Crypteks to be up for a significant redesign to make them more "consistent" with everything else. Can't confuse little timmy now can we; even when it's not a nerf, GW's done a good job removing unique elements across the books.

See, I just want to see Croissonts taken down a peg and Imhotek to go die in a fire with his lazy and annoying lightning ability, and see the barges upped in points, while the Monolith to be made more attractive, but GW doesn't do things in halves; you either become Eldar or live long enough to see your codex become a hollow shell of its former self.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
GW seems to have an idea in mind of how each codex is supposed to be played

Well, that or they have a specific model range they'd like to sell...

 MajorStoffer wrote:
GW seems to have an idea in mind of how each codex is supposed to be played, and has taken to nerfing everything that isn't that:

IG: Tank gunline
Tyranids: Flying monstrous creatures, DLC Endless Swarm
Space Wolves: Wolves riding giant wolves, with a sleigh pulled by giant wolves. And Murder.
Dark Eldar: Coven

They keep one viable route, and nerf the ever living gak out of everything else, stripping customization, flavour of any unique elements along the way.

I basically agree in any case.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Given how they changed IG orders to be on the same power level, with the same abilities as psychic powers (unlike before where they were noticeably weaker), I'd expect Crypteks to be up for a significant redesign to make them more "consistent" with everything else. Can't confuse little timmy now can we; even when it's not a nerf, GW's done a good job removing unique elements across the books.

Possibly. It might depend on how many buffs they think Necrons need (since we don't have psychic powers or the like). In any case, it would be nice if they did something a bit more interesting than just pinching half the Necron Lord's armoury.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
and Imhotek to go die in a fire with his lazy and annoying lightning ability

Can I sig thig?

raverrn wrote:
Aite. Aite I'm gonna blow some minds.

The Monolith as a Lord of War. Price it at ~450 points, give it some Baneblade scale firepower and toughness, and some army wide buffs why not.

If only...

raverrn wrote:
Aite. Aite I'm gonna blow some minds.
The Monolith as a Lord of War. Price it at ~450 points, give it some Baneblade scale firepower and toughness, and some army wide buffs why not.

We already have the Vault and Obilisk

Yeah, so we need a good one that is larger than a Dreadnought, so at least looks the part

 vipoid wrote:


Can I sig thig?

Hey, go nuts, let all the internet see my abject disgust for Imhotek and his lightning bs of bullshitness.

Him and the warp storm.

feth that gak.


Anyways, to be more on topic, when I think of Necrons, the "iconic" army is a sea of deathless machines and monoliths; 3rd and 4th are the editions where I started paying attention to 40k, even though I didn't play, and the art has stuck with me for a long time. Necrons without monoliths, but all these spindly robot-things have never felt right to me. If there's anything I want to see buffed, it's that.

I don't think that there even still is a theme with NewCrons. TruCrons had the Silver Tide theme that focused on large amounts of bodies on the field, supported by Monoliths.

NewCrons...well...have nothing. They are all over the place with flying croissants, snakes and gun platforms. There is no actual theme anymore and it shows how badly the codex was written.

There is an actual theme, you just don't like it.
Learn the difference.

The Silver Tide is far more alive with the 5th dex than it ever was under the 3e codex.

Under 3e, people seem to have forgotten that Warriors were eighteen points each. Eighteen! Not to mention coming in squads with a maximum size.

Or that Res Orbs were 30 points and just gave us what we now get as default.

Or that Destroyers used to be freaking jetbikes.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Silver Tide is far more alive with the 5th dex than it ever was under the 3e codex.

Under 3e, people seem to have forgotten that Warriors were eighteen points each. Eighteen! Not to mention coming in squads with a maximum size.

Or that Res Orbs were 30 points and just gave us what we now get as default.

Or that Destroyers used to be freaking jetbikes.

This isn't about strength or competitive viability, it's about the theme. The TruCron codex was completely aimed at that theme by drastically limiting the potential units you could bring and working both the rules and the fluff around said lists. As much as Phase Out was a disadvantage, it also perfectly fit the fluff and forced you into taking enough bodies (read: Immortals).

On top of that, you cannot really compare TruCron and NewCron units as the meta has changed a whole lot and points cost as a whole were heavily reduced over the past releases in order to promote more sales.

The problem with the NewCron codex is that there isn't a theme anymore. Most of it was randomly thrown together, promoting variety but, ultimatively, resulting in arbitrariness. While the TruCron codex was aimed at players who wanted to play an army because of the army and its background, the NewCron codex is merely aimed at power creeps who do not are about any fluff but want to skip straight to cherry-picking units. A typical Ward codex.

"Trucron" had an incredibly limited model range. The theme came from not having any other choices to field.

Reverse the awful Newcron fluff

 adamsouza wrote:
"Trucron" had an incredibly limited model range. The theme came from not having any other choices to field.

Yeah, I always find that funny.
Because their theme was really "We're bland and have no theme".
Apparently having no theme is also a theme.
I'm glad they changed the Crapcron into something decent.

It's gonna be real weird to not see Wraiths in every Cron army though.
I guess those are going to be nerfed to the underground with all the tabletop time they got.

 adamsouza wrote:
"Trucron" had an incredibly limited model range. The theme came from not having any other choices to field.

Precisely. The very limited model range (we only had ONE legal 500 pts list!) and Phase Out dictated where your army was going. Nevertheless, this lead to the army having a general theme - everyone knew that TruCrons were all over Silver Tide (mostly Immortals) and had the "Phalanx" image. With the huge amount of different units now available to NewCrons, it certainly is a lot harder to pull of the same. It is, however, possible. Yet the NewCron codex fails at that task and ends up being a Ward-esque power creep codex with no soul. Literally.

My wishes/expectations

Make flayed ones usuable again or delete them. They are CC troops so give em about 3/4 attacks, rending and fear. That is even logical// just look at them. Big slicing claws, they look sharp, real sharp. And fear, hey they are wearing skin for crying out loud.

Barges a bit more expensive.

Phaeron rule makes the attached squad fearless?

Destroyers cheaper.about 5pts per model and jetbikes? :S

Monolith deepstrike mishap prevention

Living metal usefull again?

Probably a price bump on vehicles and a small nerf on tesla.

Damn good warlord traits.

Leader of the tomb world. Bonus on reserves.

Lychguard are fine. Just a little less costly please?

Krumpa wrote:

Make flayed ones usuable again or delete them. They are CC troops so give em about 3/4 attacks, rending and fear. That is even logical// just look at them. Big slicing claws, they look sharp, real sharp. And fear, hey they are wearing skin for crying out loud.

I agree with everything except fear.

If we're trying to make them better, it might be best not to give them the most useless rule in the game.

You can still have that same crap "theme" by only fielding warriors, immortals, destroyers, and scarabs, and just concedeing when your down to 25%

"Necron Raiders" were a stepping stone, not a whole army.

 adamsouza wrote:

You can still have that same crap "theme" by only fielding warriors, immortals, destroyers, and scarabs, and just concedeing when your down to 25%

We reached a misunderstanding here as you do not seem to understand the difference between rules and fluff.

@Flayed Ones: They do not need a lot to be viable. Give them an ability similar to the one Pariahs have: any model within 6-12 '' of a Flayed One is treated as having LD 7.

Just catching up with rumors, which point to Necrons getting the Grey Knight treatment. Nothing really new, and everything released in a single week, just in time for Halloween.

Oberron wrote:
Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

They just need a role in the army that isn't "slightly beefier warrior". Warriors just end up doing the role better because you get more damage and more durability (in the form of shots and wounds) for the points. Immortals don't need the ark because they have the night scythe as a transport (and the repair isn't that big unless you get your guys out before the ark dies which I frankly don't see happen that much). Immortals just need a reason to be taken over warriors.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The Silver Tide is far more alive with the 5th dex than it ever was under the 3e codex.

Under 3e, people seem to have forgotten that Warriors were eighteen points each. Eighteen! Not to mention coming in squads with a maximum size.

Or that Res Orbs were 30 points and just gave us what we now get as default.

Or that Destroyers used to be freaking jetbikes.

This isn't about strength or competitive viability, it's about the theme. The TruCron codex was completely aimed at that theme by drastically limiting the potential units you could bring and working both the rules and the fluff around said lists. As much as Phase Out was a disadvantage, it also perfectly fit the fluff and forced you into taking enough bodies (read: Immortals).

On top of that, you cannot really compare TruCron and NewCron units as the meta has changed a whole lot and points cost as a whole were heavily reduced over the past releases in order to promote more sales.

The problem with the NewCron codex is that there isn't a theme anymore. Most of it was randomly thrown together, promoting variety but, ultimatively, resulting in arbitrariness. While the TruCron codex was aimed at players who wanted to play an army because of the army and its background, the NewCron codex is merely aimed at power creeps who do not are about any fluff but want to skip straight to cherry-picking units. A typical Ward codex.

Actually TruCron didn't force you to take moe bodies, it gave an advantage to having your phase out be 10 models and that allowed you to field multi-Monoliths and C'tan. You then just held 1 of your terribly fragile warrior squads in reserve and phase out didn't matter.

I'm all for phase out coming back also because one of the purposes was supposed to be a discounted price on some of our strong units like Monoliths and C'tan and to counter the 3+ or 4+ WBB by giving the opponents a back door way to defeat the army. I think people would be more accepting of the T. C'tan if phase were put back in place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Oberron wrote:
Maybe a fix to immortals to let them have a seat in the ghost ark or could be healed by them?

They just need a role in the army that isn't "slightly beefier warrior". Warriors just end up doing the role better because you get more damage and more durability (in the form of shots and wounds) for the points. Immortals don't need the ark because they have the night scythe as a transport (and the repair isn't that big unless you get your guys out before the ark dies which I frankly don't see happen that much). Immortals just need a reason to be taken over warriors.

Immortals should have the Ever-living rule.

Sigvatr wrote:
This isn't about strength or competitive viability, it's about the theme. The TruCron codex was completely aimed at that theme by drastically limiting the potential units you could bring and working both the rules and the fluff around said lists. As much as Phase Out was a disadvantage, it also perfectly fit the fluff and forced you into taking enough bodies (read: Immortals).

Uh, what? Nobody took Immortals. Ever. Immortals sucked. They were too many points for a pathetic close combat upgrade that they would never use.

On top of that, you cannot really compare TruCron and NewCron units as the meta has changed a whole lot and points cost as a whole were heavily reduced over the past releases in order to promote more sales.

The problem with the NewCron codex is that there isn't a theme anymore. Most of it was randomly thrown together, promoting variety but, ultimatively, resulting in arbitrariness. While the TruCron codex was aimed at players who wanted to play an army because of the army and its background, the NewCron codex is merely aimed at power creeps who do not are about any fluff but want to skip straight to cherry-picking units. A typical Ward codex.

That is complete and utter bull. The 3e Codex was an extended Necron Raiders list, which was great in itself - but then it had stupid gak like the Monolith in it, which doesn't fit with the Raiders theme at all. In addition, the 5e codex expanded the options. It let you play other themes. For example, it gave me a lot more power to play my Tomb Guardian themed list - and not just by turning Wraiths into Guardian units (by which these days, I mean Canoptek). So no, the 5e codex is not aimed at 'power creeps'. It's aimed at people who like to play the game. Just like the 3e codex.

If the 5e codex was aimed at 'power creeps', they would never have introduced the majority of the new units. In terms of competitive play, the only new units worth taking over the old units are Annihilation Barges and Night Scythes. The other 'standard' Power Units - wraiths, Destroyer Lords - were part of the 3e codex too. Triarch units, Deathmarks without a Veiltek, and Lychguard? Almost as useless as Flayed Ones compared to Wraithwing. Tomb Blades? Doomsday Arks? Are you even reading the same book as me?

Sigvatr wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
"Trucron" had an incredibly limited model range. The theme came from not having any other choices to field.

Precisely. The very limited model range (we only had ONE legal 500 pts list!) and Phase Out dictated where your army was going. Nevertheless, this lead to the army having a general theme - everyone knew that TruCrons were all over Silver Tide (mostly Immortals) and had the "Phalanx" image. With the huge amount of different units now available to NewCrons, it certainly is a lot harder to pull of the same. It is, however, possible. Yet the NewCron codex fails at that task and ends up being a Ward-esque power creep codex with no soul. Literally.

Again with the Immortal thing. Where you get the idea that Immortals were ever the backbone of anyone's 3e Necron army I don't know.

Not to mention the fact that the 'silver tide' army of Warriors with Ghost Arks is one of the Power Lists of the 5e codex.

Then we come to the fact that you somehow think that having options means you have to take them. There is one one thing about the 5e codex that means you have can't play the exact same army as you did under the 3e codex. Just one: The change for Destroyers to Jump Infantry instead of Jetbike. Other than that, just use Immortal rules for your Warriors if you really can't live without the 3+ (I'll admit, I do - but then, my Warriors are metal and plainly too bulky to be 4+ stick figures).

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Uh, what? Nobody took Immortals. Ever. Immortals sucked. They were too many points for a pathetic close combat upgrade that they would never use.

What CC upgrade did immortals have?

I thought their upgrades were improved toughness and a better ranged weapon.

 vipoid wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Uh, what? Nobody took Immortals. Ever. Immortals sucked. They were too many points for a pathetic close combat upgrade that they would never use.

What CC upgrade did immortals have?

I thought their upgrades were improved toughness and a better ranged weapon.

he's thinking pariahs from immortals

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Uh, what? Nobody took Immortals. Ever. Immortals sucked. They were too many points for a pathetic close combat upgrade that they would never use

Huh? Immortals were expensive, but had +1T and, more importantly, Assault weapons, allowing them to move and shoot at 24'' whereas regular Warriors still suffered from the old Rapid Fire weapons that only allowed for 12'' shooting if moving even a single bit. I am not sure what kind of melee upgrade you're talking of - maybe you're mixing units up? Do you mix them up with Pariahs?

/e: 7k, WOOOZAH!

Immortals weren't exactly great due to their price, but they were the best choice in the elite section.

Pariahs were too expensive for a 1W non-necron, and flayed ones were flayed ones.

I believe she might be referring to disruption fields, which were basically the CC version of Gauss.
No idea why you would take fields on immortals though; you are meant to shoot with them, not charge.
The assault stat is for kiting.

Also, scarab please, I got 10k posts

Immortals had +1 S and T, and Assault weapons, but that was it. warriors were significantly better, what with being only 75% of the price and just as mobile. Assault's only really good if you're going to be charging anyway.

The CC upgrade I meant was the +1 Strength and Toughness.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Immortals had +1 S and T, and Assault weapons, but that was it. warriors were significantly better, what with being only 75% of the price and just as mobile. Assault's only really good if you're going to be charging anyway.

The CC upgrade I meant was the +1 Strength and Toughness.

A couple of things:

1) Immortals only had +1T - they were still only S4.

2) Their weapons were S5 AP4 Assault 2, compared to Warriors' Bolters. You say that Assault weapons are only useful if you plan to charge, but that's simply not true. Bear in mind that, in 3rd, a unit could only use a rapid-fire weapon at full range if it stood still. So, Assault gave you a lot more mobility.

raverrn wrote:
Aite. Aite I'm gonna blow some minds.

The Monolith as a Lord of War. Price it at ~450 points, give it some Baneblade scale firepower and toughness, and some army wide buffs why not.

I'm actually ok with that. I would love to see its power being proportional to the giant, bulky, model attached to it. Plus, it would give them a flavorful "super heavy" and help keep other current heavy-support items relevant after they get some inevitable, and probably large point increases (we all know Anni-Barge is definitely getting a big price increase).

Meanwhile, my personal wish is access to some better AP2 shooting. Fluff-wise I have always felt like their narrative technology seems to rarely mesh with the game-mechanic technology, which makes shooting Terminator-equivalents a miserable affair. :-p

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Immortals had +1 S and T, and Assault weapons, but that was it. warriors were significantly better, what with being only 75% of the price and just as mobile. Assault's only really good if you're going to be charging anyway.

The CC upgrade I meant was the +1 Strength and Toughness.

Are you sure you played 3rd / 4th? You don't seem to know / remember why Assault Weapons were vastly superior to Rapid Fire...

Krumpa wrote:

Monolith deepstrike mishap prevention

Living metal usefull again?

The Monolith already has mishap prevention, in the form a rule that most people overlook or forget about. Skimmers don't mishap if they land on a unit, they just reduce the distance like a Drop Pod.

And Living metal, while I would prefer it to be something else, still isn't useless. You ignore half of the Vehicle Damage Chart, pretty much.

Immortals were vastly superior in the 3ed book. Assault shooting was far superior to rapid fire up until 6th edition and immortals could charge after they deep struck. The improved S of their weapon and toughness made them ideal for the original Necron "flying circus" where lords would veil around the board picking off threats to the deep striking Monoliths and the Deciever, which wiped out everything else in the opponents army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Krumpa wrote:

Monolith deepstrike mishap prevention

Living metal usefull again?

The Monolith already has mishap prevention, in the form a rule that most people overlook or forget about. Skimmers don't mishap if they land on a unit, they just reduce the distance like a Drop Pod.

And Living metal, while I would prefer it to be something else, still isn't useless. You ignore half of the Vehicle Damage Chart, pretty much.

Most tournaments ignore the deep striking skimmer protection rules and will rule your monoliths as mi shaping. I've argued the point endlessly here and at Adepticon. Like I've said before rule #1 always rule against the Necron player.