Azreal13 wrote:
We have confirmation that they're own thing. They can't be both.

They are reinforcements for the dwindling Marine Chapters. As attrition takes its toll and only NuDudes are produced...narrative could easily go that way. We don't have the proof you state, only that for now they are distinct.

Ok, combine that with the fact that they can't reach half the galaxy then.

If there's replacement on the horizon, it's so far off that it isn't really worth spending energy on any more than people wake up every day freaking out over the heat death of the universe.

I think this will also help GW separate the Horus Heresy stuff (which is Space Marine centric) from 40k, which will move to having the Nu-Marines eventually replace the previous marine range.

Backfire wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Mark the date, today is when you realized that Roboute Guilliman putting on a leather jacket and jumping over a shark pool wasn't actually cool.

When you have a brand, one of the most important rules is that you don't water down the brand. Lets take James Bond. It is well estabilished that double-oh agents are Her Majesty's finest operatives, and James Bond is the most legendary of them all. Now imagine that MGM expands the franchise with triple-oh agents who are even more skilled and special, and best of them is 0001 Mary Sue who is stronger, smarter, suavier and just generally superior to James Bond every way. And the studio explains "oh, you can still enjoy James Bond movies, they are not going anywhere, we are just expanding the brand with something even better".

How well would that go over?

Its not the same thing at all. One is a character being replaced by another character.

You need to read more carefully - my analogy was not about James Bond being retired, he would still exist in the movies, just being inferior to Agent Sue.

I read just fine, thanks. You said a character would be introduced that was superior, ergo replaced. I did not mention retired.

If a new more powerful Marine unit makes people feel their armies are inferior, then once again, ain't the first time this has happened. If the exact narrative framing of this latest New Uber Toy is what's rankling, then eh, what can you do? It's happening. It's not massively different to "GUYS WE FOUND A NEW LAND RAIDER" but I've beaten that drum already.

 Melissia wrote:
The MarineMarines are explicitly stated to be reinforcements for your regular Marines, not replacements.

Which implies replacement. Reinforcements are replacing nothing with something. Reinforcing marine ranks with better super marines means you are replacing the recruitment process for marines.

Reinforcement means replacements.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Ok, combine that with the fact that they can't reach half the galaxy then.

If there's replacement on the horizon, it's so far off that it isn't really worth spending energy on any more than people wake up every day freaking out over the heat death of the universe.

It's more that we won't see releases for marines of the current scale continuing for much longer. I believe Hastings mentioned something to this effect as well (as few releases here and there but not much.)

Episode IX - Yoda returns from the dead! And in the shadows he has mastered Ancient Secrets of the Force and trained a new breed of warriors called...the Zedi! Faster and more powerful than the old Jedi, armed with 3-bladed Brightsabers, they are the ones who will really take the fight on Snoke. Move over, Luke and Rey, you're obsolete!

 Accolade wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Ok, combine that with the fact that they can't reach half the galaxy then.

If there's replacement on the horizon, it's so far off that it isn't really worth spending energy on any more than people wake up every day freaking out over the heat death of the universe.

I believe it's more that we won't see releases for marines of the current scale continuing for much longer. I believe Hastings mentioned something to this effect as well (as few releases here and there but not much.)

Agree. This is the most logical take.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
The MarineMarines are explicitly stated to be reinforcements for your regular Marines, not replacements.

Which implies replacement. Reinforcements are replacing nothing with something. Reinforcing marine ranks with better super marines means you are replacing the recruitment process for marines.

Reinforcement means replacements.

Reinforcements need not be replacements, they are reinforcements. If you're reinforced with an anti-tank platoon, you're not replacing your AA section or your infantry assault losses for example, you're gaining a new anti-tank capability.

By that logic, if a part of the lore says a Space Marine force is being reinforced by elements of the Imperial Guard, that means Space Marines are being replaced by the Imperial Guard and we'll have no more Space Marines, just Imperial Guard.

Ridiculous logic being thrown around here.

That's a semantic cul-de-sac not worth pursuing, as the video says they are reinforcing dwindling Chapters with the new Marines. So it's both.

We still don't have enough information about how these NuMarines are going to fit with the existing Astartes organization and how the two groups interact.
Are they going to be a stand alone force or a supplement to existing army's?
Will the NuMarines be led by existing Marine veterans and if so at what level?
How do the two types of Marine see each other, and what does the wider Imperium think about the situation?

Maybe they will replace the god awefull centurion armour
I don't play marines so can't say it bothers me apart from the one small detail and here it is.

Why in all hell does an overlay saturated army get even more new stuff come on what about us xeno players with out us there would be no battles.

Some one in gw please stop the madness of the space marines they already had so many codec's that it's insane just on the face of it to start this new game with yet what more marines .

Sucks

 JohnnyHell wrote:

If a new more powerful Marine unit makes people feel their armies are inferior, then once again, ain't the first time this has happened. If the exact narrative framing of this latest New Uber Toy is what's rankling, then eh, what can you do? It's happening. It's not massively different to "GUYS WE FOUND A NEW LAND RAIDER" but I've beaten that drum already.

Land Raider Crusader did not make basic Land Raider obsolete or useless. It is a different weapon with different purpose. Grey Knights are specifically made and trained to special mission, and they are not making other Marines pointless any more than SEAL is making Rangers pointless. Even Centurions, daft as they are, don't make other Marine unit types obsolete or useless.

Hypothetically, one might imagine if say, Tau, get a new type of super powerful suit which does all same things as tanks better than the tanks, and all same thing as Battlesuits better than the battlesuits, that might be a comparable situation and I dunno, might incite a complaint or two from the fanbase.
Hypothetically, of course.

Wow so much negativity in this thread!

I love the idea of a second crusade through the galaxy with armies of marines backed up by their new souped up brothers.

It seems like a very natural progression of the storyline to me. With RG back in play it seems like we will have a newly energised Imperium counterattacking against all the foes that are coming in from every corner.

The grimdark aspect of 40K is still there after all, Cadia has fallen and the Fenris system is in flames. Time mankind got some revenge methinks!

Also thanks to that video I finally know how to pronounce that darned primarch's name...

 Melissia wrote:
By that logic, if a part of the lore says a Space Marine force is being reinforced by elements of the Imperial Guard, that means Space Marines are being replaced by the Imperial Guard and we'll have no more Space Marines, just Imperial Guard.

Ridiculous logic being thrown around here.

Except the following line to reinforcement is rebirth. They are intented to replace space marines. The true legacy of the primarch etc etc. The language is there.

Your logic is off because you are omitting information to fit your point. Your context with Imperial Guard is a different concept of reinforcements, that is to reinforce a battle line. The Numarines are to reinforce battle loss. The reinforcement is the kind of reinforcement of new recruits to a unit.

If a military unit recieves reinforcments for a battle (imperial guard joining marines) that is reinforcing the battle line. If a unit is receiving reinforcements of new recruits its replacing. Its a simple concept with a simple logic.

 Accolade wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Ok, combine that with the fact that they can't reach half the galaxy then.

If there's replacement on the horizon, it's so far off that it isn't really worth spending energy on any more than people wake up every day freaking out over the heat death of the universe.

It's more that we won't see releases for marines of the current scale continuing for much longer. I believe Hastings mentioned something to this effect as well (as few releases here and there but not much.)

Exactly- is there much left for a substantive release for the current marines or are they just "slight better/different armour marks" sets, or chapter specific squads. The marine range is pretty full- this is the only way they can keep it going- by bringing in new stuff.
I'm not a marine player but it looks reasonable- Cawl has been working on a project for 10,000 years with access to the geneseed banks and who knows what else. They seem to be talking about new reinforcements for chapters and even the restoration of chapters that have been destroyed. Darker times calls for better super soldiers and the current marines become the old school vets..plus there is plenty of scope for chapters not taking too fondly to these new guys.

Backfire wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

If a new more powerful Marine unit makes people feel their armies are inferior, then once again, ain't the first time this has happened. If the exact narrative framing of this latest New Uber Toy is what's rankling, then eh, what can you do? It's happening. It's not massively different to "GUYS WE FOUND A NEW LAND RAIDER" but I've beaten that drum already.

Land Raider Crusader did not make basic Land Raider obsolete or useless. It is a different weapon with different purpose. Grey Knights are specifically made and trained to special mission, and they are not making other Marines pointless any more than SEAL is making Rangers pointless. Even Centurions, daft as they are, don't make other Marine unit types obsolete or useless.

Hypothetically, one might imagine if say, Tau, get a new type of super powerful suit which does all same things as tanks better than the tanks, and all same thing as Battlesuits better than the battlesuits, that might be a comparable situation and I dunno, might incite a complaint or two from the fanbase.
Hypothetically, of course.

Why is anything 'obsolete'? This hyperbole is the issue. Nothing is becoming obsolete - you get a new option is all.

 Melissia wrote:
By that logic, if a part of the lore says a Space Marine force is being reinforced by elements of the Imperial Guard, that means Space Marines are being replaced by the Imperial Guard and we'll have no more Space Marines, just Imperial Guard.

Ridiculous logic being thrown around here.

He's right though. They are being replaced, only with other marines. The same as always!

Seriously this bigger, faster, stronger thing is just a way to justify the size increase. If they have slightly better rules it will only be to encourage uptake of the new minis.

In reality all that's happening is GW are providing nicer models to play with. The idea that we have things called space marines that look like space marines, are organised like space marines and are the new recruits for the space marines chapters, yet are totally different from space marines and their own faction in a little bit mental.

The rebirth comment was "to the chapters lost". There's no evidence that all chapters are going to be lost and replaced by these.

In 5 years we all be enjoying our new Supermarines and all the Space Marines of old will be forgotten, to only be enjoyed by those extrange geeks that call themselves "oldhammers". Like those Beakies.

The process culminationg will be the Men in Black of GW erasing our collective memories of the old-Space Marines, and rebranding all this new breed of Supermarines into normal Space Marines.

All marines will die in battle and with the story moving forward only supermarines will remain, that reached that point have nothing about them Super, because the Normal Marines are no more! A perfect plan. Only a master mind like the one of Tom Kirby with the aid of Matt Ward could have planet that!

I won't be. If the replacement hyperbolists are correct, this actually makes me like Marines even less, for the same reason I like Sisters and Guard over current Space Marines.

I'm glad they're not just Marines, but a different kind of Marines.

My concern however is that this means we're never getting another 'regular' Marine release again, and that everything from hereon in will be a nuMarine, until, much like in the fluff, they replace all the existing Marines.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm glad they're not just Marines, but a different kind of Marines.

My concern however is that this means we're never getting another 'regular' Marine release again, and that everything from hereon in will be a nuMarine, until, much like in the fluff, they replace all the existing Marines.

Did normal marines even need more releases? What can they need, besides... scout bikes? new terminators? Really, they have reached a point where they have just... everything.

Not a big deal. Size creep- well they already did it over the years. They won't replace current marines right away and it's just a slow 'boiling frog' scenario. If you really love the current marine range, there will be no short supply of them for many many years and I'm sure you could just use them instead of these new ones coming out in a game. But eventually down the road it will all be NuMarines. just like AOS.

If you're like me, and you hate the current marine range because of their outdated proportions and the discrepancies between the tabletop models and the fluff, then you are happy as a clam.

If you're a competitive player, and you don't care what models look like at all and I'm sure that GW will make the rules good and you can buy 10 boxes of them and kick ass on the table. And you can also probably get away with proxying most of the time.

for every one guy that is turned off by this, there will be another guy that loves it.

One of my favourite aspects of the 30k lore is the interactions between the Terran born legionaries and the subsequent generations from the primarch's homeworld.

I hope the new marines have some of those interesting interactions with the existing marines too.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm glad they're not just Marines, but a different kind of Marines.

My concern however is that this means we're never getting another 'regular' Marine release again, and that everything from hereon in will be a nuMarine, until, much like in the fluff, they replace all the existing Marines.

I do believe this is what's happening, minus some releases over the next six months, and I can certainly sympathize with SM players if they're going this route.

Did anyone post/see the trailer where it is said that the Imperium has bred new soldiers? Are these marines supposed to be them, or is that trailer the confirmation people are talking about? I'm behind the times, and I only bothered reading the last two pages.

 Melissia wrote:
The rebirth comment was "to the chapters lost". There's no evidence that all chapters are going to be lost and replaced by these.

So we will get whole space marine chapters replaced by a new type of space marine, with other chapters replacing battle loss with a new type of space marine but they are not actually replacing old space marines they are just there to reinforce their battle line until they can get more of the inferior old marine?

You see how your own logic isn't actually holding up to your own scrutiny?

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Why is anything 'obsolete'? This hyperbole is the issue. Nothing is becoming obsolete - you get a new option is all.

They are obsoleted from the lore point, as I tried to explain through my analogies. (In fact they probably will be obsoleted rules-wise too, otherwise why would people buy NuMarines if they aren't meaningfully better?).

 Galas wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm glad they're not just Marines, but a different kind of Marines.

My concern however is that this means we're never getting another 'regular' Marine release again, and that everything from hereon in will be a nuMarine, until, much like in the fluff, they replace all the existing Marines.

Did normal marines even need more releases? What can they need, besides... scout bikes? new terminators? Really, they have reached a point where they have just... everything.

Everything now yes, but no more Centurions, Storm Ravens, Storm Talons, Storm Hawks etc etc as new 12" Malibu Stacey will get all the hats.

Arms race with Fabius Bile to create Monster Chaos Marines, please!

 silverstu wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Ok, combine that with the fact that they can't reach half the galaxy then.

If there's replacement on the horizon, it's so far off that it isn't really worth spending energy on any more than people wake up every day freaking out over the heat death of the universe.

It's more that we won't see releases for marines of the current scale continuing for much longer. I believe Hastings mentioned something to this effect as well (as few releases here and there but not much.)

Exactly- is there much left for a substantive release for the current marines or are they just "slight better/different armour marks" sets, or chapter specific squads. The marine range is pretty full- this is the only way they can keep it going- by bringing in new stuff.
I'm not a marine player but it looks reasonable- Cawl has been working on a project for 10,000 years with access to the geneseed banks and who knows what else. They seem to be talking about new reinforcements for chapters and even the restoration of chapters that have been destroyed. Darker times calls for better super soldiers and the current marines become the old school vets..plus there is plenty of scope for chapters not taking too fondly to these new guys.

look at it this way, we could start to see space wolf sucessors!

 Medium of Death wrote:
Arms race with Fabius Bile to create Monster Chaos Marines, please!

I'm sure Chaos marines will soon contend size-wise with their Imperial counterparts. Heck, I wouldn't t be surprised if it was retconned that the Warp always made them bigger! This will probably be visible with the upcoming starter release: with Nurgle, it's easy to excuse an increase in size.

Really, the story is mirroring that of Warhammer Fantasy at the End Times.

This reminds me when people were insisting that Stormcast had replaced generic humans, who would be phased out and become an unimportant sidenote. Turns out the opposite happened with normal humans becoming more important as the fluff went on, but hey nothing quite like whining ceaselessly over change. There is absolutely nothing GW could have done that would not have whole swathes of people saying it was the worst thing ever.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
This reminds me when people were insisting that Stormcast had replaced generic humans, who would be phased out and become an unimportant sidenote. Turns out the opposite happened with normal humans becoming more important as the fluff went on, but hey nothing quite like whining ceaselessly over change. There is absolutely nothing GW could have done that would not have whole swathes of people saying it was the worst thing ever.

Er, what new human releases have come out for AoS? As far as I've seen, it's Stormcasts that have come to dominate the model releases for that game (minus the appearance of the more zealous units of the old Empire).

I think we'll continue to see Imperial Guard releases, but current Space Marines will be set on the wayside.

 Accolade wrote:
I think this will also help GW separate the Horus Heresy stuff (which is Space Marine centric) from 40k, which will move to having the Nu-Marines eventually replace the previous marine range.

See, that's wierd, because if they wanted to keep 30K and 40K distinct there was a fairly simple thing they could have done to achieve that: leave Primarchs in 30K where they belong.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Except it isn't being forced into the setting, the setting is being altered and they're part of that.

"Forced into the setting" as in, were not something that was hinted at in the past, just suddenly appeared out of almost nowhere and have been done in a way that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can't resist responding to this...this..strange post.

It's as if you have never read a book or watched a TV show or movie ever. Seriously? Your suggesting it is bad form not to telegraph future developments? I, I have no words to rightly epxress how idiotic this is.

With regards the production of new marines (existing) plenty of chapters will be stuck on the wrong side of the warp tear, with no access to the new marines and recruitment.

The new marines are also only made on Mars at present, so I'd hazard their rate of production combined with demand vs supply means recruiting standard marines will be a necessity.

There's also no hints that the new marines can be continually created, this may just be a 1 large batch of reinforcements and done (unlikely).

It's certainly no fluff abomination, new marines have existed once before thanks to the Ravenguard, which from memory the alpha legion stole the tech for? So maybe they lent a hand #plottwist

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Except it isn't being forced into the setting, the setting is being altered and they're part of that.

"Forced into the setting" as in, were not something that was hinted at in the past, just suddenly appeared out of almost nowhere and have been done in a way that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can't resist responding to this...this..strange post.

It's as if you have never read a book or watched a TV show or movie ever. Seriously? Your suggesting it is bad form not to telegraph future developments? I, I have no words to rightly epxress how idiotic this is.

Wait, whut? "Telegraphing future developments" is the defining quality of a great story - foreshadowing. The best story is one that tells you absolutely everything you need to know to figure out the ending, but still manages to surprise you without making you feel thick for not having done so. Stories that rely on "surprise, motherfether!" twists or "suddenly: Jesus saved everyone" deus ex machina are derided as cheap pulp nonsense. Seriously, take a creative writing course sometime.

That's enough from everyone.

RULE #1.

Or it will be significant time off from this forum.

Foreshadowing is a creative device, it's not the sole one, it isn't an obligation and it certainly isn't an indicator of quality unless done well, just like pretty much every other storytelling technique.

I do think it's odd to have super humans, super humans born from the emperor, super humans made from the emperor but not labeled as sons, and now super humans who are from the people made from the emperor but more super but below the emperors' super humans that are not labeled his sons.

Yet they aren't replacing the current line of marines, you'll still be able to get your Blood Claw packs and Black Templar Upgrades, but these new marines are a way of letting you bring new elite squads to your existing line or (in my opinion) the reason they intended, they let us finally have true-scale marines so it's a choice to either use them as the new guys or to make your current marines more true-scale, it's a win win, nothing's going away only new stuff on top of everything.

What a time to be alive.

So... Guilliman just became Justinian and started a new Crusade in order to restore the Imperium from the barbaric tribes and rebel generals.

I am however conflicted as everyone else. New Marines sounds nice but I cannot comprehend how will they work in fluff. First major problem they will face is Chaos corruption, and if that problem is fixed then Grey Knights will lose their reason for existing. Second major problem is introducing them to other Chapters who have other Primarch, but I can see this being avoided if they somehow improved the body but left geen-seen unchanged - as in they were not using Guilliman's geen-ssed at all but improved body instead.

In any case I am exited to see where they will go next with this. With new marines incoming and Armageddon daemon invasion in progress I cannot wait to see what more will happen in meantime.

As the owner of over 10,000pts of painted marines (mostly 2nd and 3rd edition models) last I bothered to count them up, I support the move by GW. Would I have preferred just a new model role out to replace the 1998 tactical marine kit? Yeah, probably. I could do with newer better proportioned models without the change in the fluff. I'm a fan though of the truescale trend that was popular a few years back and I relish the chance to buy a squad or two and paint them up as ultras as well as convert some to space wolves with the plethora of bits available. If they actually have better stats that reflect the fluff of Astartes more than the 44441483 that marines had relative to other models then even better as long as they're costed approrpiately and meant to be fielded in smaller numbers.

Game mechanics-wise, I don't see any issue with folks just playing counts as with their old marines as the new malibu marines with new hats. Space Marines have never been the absolute top skim cream of the crop (Thunder Warriors, Custodes, Primarchs, and Grey Knights being the obvious examples) although I will admit that this is the most upfront Iphone'ing of Astartes that GW has ever done.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Except it isn't being forced into the setting, the setting is being altered and they're part of that.

"Forced into the setting" as in, were not something that was hinted at in the past, just suddenly appeared out of almost nowhere and have been done in a way that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can't resist responding to this...this..strange post.

It's as if you have never read a book or watched a TV show or movie ever. Seriously? Your suggesting it is bad form not to telegraph future developments? I, I have no words to rightly epxress how idiotic this is.

W40K is a setting where there is very little technological development, things on a grand scale are mostly unchanging, and there is overall little hope, especially not for the Imperium. That's the way it's been for 10,000 years since the Horus Heresy. This is Deus Ex Machina that's appeared out of nowhere that'll supposedly suddenly save everything, goes against the themes for the past 10,000 years of the Imperium and undermines the core tenants of the setting as a whole. The lack of foreshadowing and how it's just came out of absolute nowhere is the problem here, it's poor storytelling and it's done just so they can shove these new super Marines into the setting in a way that doesn't actually fit in with the setting, based on what we know so far.

While foreshadowing/telegraphing things is not entirely necessary all the time (e.g. new Land Raider Variants were suddenly discovered, or Stormravens suddenly being introduced) when it's on such a grand scale and something so important, it feels a bit cheap to do it like this. Obviously we've yet to see exactly how this would turn out so it might end up being alright, but from what's been shown so far it doesn't sound overly good to me.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
I do think it's odd to have super humans, super humans born from the emperor, super humans made from the emperor but not labeled as sons, and now super humans who are from the people made from the emperor but more super but below the emperors' super humans that are not labeled his sons.

Yet they aren't replacing the current line of marines, you'll still be able to get your Blood Claw packs and Black Templar Upgrades, but these new marines are a way of letting you bring new elite squads to your existing line or (in my opinion) the reason they intended, they let us finally have true-scale marines so it's a choice to either use them as the new guys or to make your current marines more true-scale, it's a win win, nothing's going away only new stuff on top of everything.

What a time to be alive.

They are the new grandchilds of the Emperor. I'll see if I can make a squad or two of Supermarines to my Dark Angels force and give them proper robes! They will make my characters look a litte odd, but meh. Nothing that conversion can't fix to make them Supermarines and not just SpaceMarines but bigger.

I'm not sure I'm a fan of 'New Bigger Marines'.

It's probably the laziest idea I've seen. TBH, all we needed was someone to do something about the legs of the existing models.

And I'm not sure if the rumors of He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named coming back to GW. Rumors crop up that he's been re-hired and suddenly we're seeing our SPIRITUAL LIEGE lead the damned imperium, oh shocker there.

If GW hasn't changed enough, we'll see no updated Chaos Marines for another decade.

I'm hearing scuttlebutt that a picture of the new boxed game has been sighted.

Can anyone provide a link or a picture?

A new faction of bigger better marines to take alongside and bolster other imperial forces is how I see it going.

This would be the best way to maximise sales and would fit with the " Two new factions out at the release of 8th ed " statement that was made. ( Death guard and Mega marines )

 Galas wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
I do think it's odd to have super humans, super humans born from the emperor, super humans made from the emperor but not labeled as sons, and now super humans who are from the people made from the emperor but more super but below the emperors' super humans that are not labeled his sons.

Yet they aren't replacing the current line of marines, you'll still be able to get your Blood Claw packs and Black Templar Upgrades, but these new marines are a way of letting you bring new elite squads to your existing line or (in my opinion) the reason they intended, they let us finally have true-scale marines so it's a choice to either use them as the new guys or to make your current marines more true-scale, it's a win win, nothing's going away only new stuff on top of everything.

What a time to be alive.

They are the new grandchilds of the Emperor. I'll see if I can make a squad or two of Supermarines to my Dark Angels force and give them proper robes! They will make my characters look a litte odd, but meh. Nothing that conversion can't fix to make them Supermarines and not just SpaceMarines but bigger.

Im gonna have to practice my green stuff skills. I'd love to get those new Assault Marines and turn them into taller tabard wearing Crusaders.

I'll be keeping my all marine armies as they are but just using these new marines for my mixed lists, just for that visual representation of proper super humans on the field. Gonna be sweeeeeeeeet.

Edit: I am looking forward to future dioramas that show the Guard doing their thing and then amongst them will be these towering giants. Armies on Parade should be good.

 Galas wrote:
In 5 years we all be enjoying our new Supermarines and all the Space Marines of old will be forgotten, to only be enjoyed by those extrange geeks that call themselves "oldhammers". Like those Beakies.

The process culminationg will be the Men in Black of GW erasing our collective memories of the old-Space Marines, and rebranding all this new breed of Supermarines into normal Space Marines.

All marines will die in battle and with the story moving forward only supermarines will remain, that reached that point have nothing about them Super, because the Normal Marines are no more! A perfect plan. Only a master mind like the one of Tom Kirby with the aid of Matt Ward could have planet that!

Meanwhile Sisters will still use the same model as when originally released. Because we all know what 40k needs is more marines…

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
This reminds me when people were insisting that Stormcast had replaced generic humans, who would be phased out and become an unimportant sidenote. Turns out the opposite happened with normal humans becoming more important as the fluff went on, but hey nothing quite like whining ceaselessly over change. There is absolutely nothing GW could have done that would not have whole swathes of people saying it was the worst thing ever.

They should replace the loyal/nurgle marine with this quote as the logo for 40K.

Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

I can get behind new Squats! I love the AOS dwarves they just introduced. I always heard they dumped squats because they couldn't think of anything cool. STEAMPUNK DORFS ARE COOL!

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

This line of thinking assumes that sales of one increases resources available to another line. There is no such direct link, GW selling tons of Space Marines doesn't necessarily mean another line is going to get greater support or anything like that beyond the very indirect result of GW keeping its doors open. That's just really not how these things work, particularly at a publicly traded manufacturing firm like GW.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

Yep, the more factions, the merrier !

I am not liking the recent fluff, but lots of people are and good for them, the new stuff is selling like hot cakes and these new marines will too !

 Vaktathi wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

This line of thinking assumes that sales of one increases resources available to another line. There is no such direct link, GW selling tons of Space Marines doesn't necessarily mean another line is going to get greater support or anything like that beyond the very indirect result of GW keeping its doors open. That's just really not how these things work, particularly at a publicly traded manufacturing firm like GW.

No, Johnny is dead right. Your big sellers are what give you the security and resources to experiment and explore. The tighter the purse strings get, the more conservative you have to be with your resources.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

W40K is a setting where there is very little technological development, things on a grand scale are mostly unchanging, and there is overall little hope, especially not for the Imperium. That's the way it's been for 10,000 years since the Horus Heresy. This is Deus Ex Machina that's appeared out of nowhere that'll supposedly suddenly save everything, goes against the themes for the past 10,000 years of the Imperium and undermines the core tenants of the setting as a whole. The lack of foreshadowing and how it's just came out of absolute nowhere is the problem here, it's poor storytelling and it's done just so they can shove these new super Marines into the setting in a way that doesn't actually fit in with the setting, based on what we know so far.

"Save everything?"

...um...look at the map of the galaxy again. The conflict has just escalated on BOTH sides. Add in the main tyranid fleet (if it truly is coming), more Necrons waking up and the greenskins getting all frisky with all the fighting going on, all the Imperium has gotten is a means to maybe hold the line a bit longer.

And you can't tell me that Primarchs returning hasn't been telegraphed for decades. Gulliman wasn't locked in a stasis bubble just so GW could NOT bring him back eventually. Vulcan promised to come back when the Salamanders found all his relics. Somebody at GW had the brass to actually pull the trigger on it.

Rowboat won't sweep the galaxy with his NuMarines. He'll secure a portion of the galaxy before numbers of enemy grinds him to a halt. The Tau get to secure some space, Necrons grab swaths of territory, and everybody is busy fighting greenskins/tyranics/chaos because they're all over the place. Endless war, nothing has really changed.

my take on the current scale of marines:
they're already 'true-scale'. it's all the other human minis that are too big!

 Azreal13 wrote:
We have confirmation that they're own thing. They can't be both.

They can totally be both.

"Hey guys, here are your reinforcements!"

*3 months later, have a 3 month campaign*

"Hey guys, all the old Marines are dead, but don't worry the new Marines have filled out all their roles now! (i.e. we've released enough new Marine kits to remove the old Marines from the shelves)"

I'm not saying that's definitely what's going to happen, but it didn't pass me by that they gave the line "To the Chapters lost in valiant duty or driven to destruction, we offer rebirth" while showing a picture of a Space Wolf... a Chapter that already has a fully fleshed out line up of models but just recently got brought nearly to annihilation in a campaign.

It may have just been a coinkydink, but it certainly struck me as rather convenient.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
By that logic, if a part of the lore says a Space Marine force is being reinforced by elements of the Imperial Guard, that means Space Marines are being replaced by the Imperial Guard and we'll have no more Space Marines, just Imperial Guard.

Ridiculous logic being thrown around here.

Isn't it usually the other way around, Space Marines reinforce the Imperial Guard?

But either way, it's a false equivalency because IG have never as far as I know been labelled as something that "offers rebirth" to Space Marine chapters. Also IG and SM have always existed alongside each other and the setting has historically never advanced, the setting is now advancing.

This is super lame. So much for my Deathwatch ever getting the missing models they needed. Probably have super deathwatch.

All my rpg adventures feel like a let down. Like I wasn't running a game with the best of the best, but just regular joe shmoe marines now. This retroactively feths up my opinion of the rpg and fluff in a bad way.

The only other rumors of stuff that I've see recently are of more primarchs for both sides. So I'm guessing non-eldar xenos are just not getting anything? Okay then. I know there are rumors of xenos stuff from eons ago, but I don't think they were form hastings or a reliable rumormonger. Just the ork buggy thing.

All they got to do to shut me up is say xenos races are getting models sometime this year and I'll be happy. They don't have to elaborate on anything else.

30k Mk 2 incoming. *Sigh* Looks like jumping ship to Sigmar is the wisest course of action still.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Every Marine sale give them funds to make the cooler toys. No one would have predicted GS Cult a few years ago! Let's hope the NuMarines sell like mad so we get Sisters, Squats, Slaaneshi dudes, every mini faction they can throw at us.

This line of thinking assumes that sales of one increases resources available to another line. There is no such direct link, GW selling tons of Space Marines doesn't necessarily mean another line is going to get greater support or anything like that beyond the very indirect result of GW keeping its doors open. That's just really not how these things work, particularly at a publicly traded manufacturing firm like GW.

Of course it does, you must not be living in the same GW world if you think that Space Marines are not the SOLE reason 40k still exists. Without Space Marines there is no 40k (or GW for that matter) so its easier to just suck it up and wait for other models. As others have pointed out there have been a massive amount of non-SM models released in 7th ed.

 Accolade wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
This reminds me when people were insisting that Stormcast had replaced generic humans, who would be phased out and become an unimportant sidenote. Turns out the opposite happened with normal humans becoming more important as the fluff went on, but hey nothing quite like whining ceaselessly over change. There is absolutely nothing GW could have done that would not have whole swathes of people saying it was the worst thing ever.

Er, what new human releases have come out for AoS? As far as I've seen, it's Stormcasts that have come to dominate the model releases for that game (minus the appearance of the more zealous units of the old Empire).

It has to do with the fluff in the advancing story, suffice it to say that the Stormcast were set in role of super-elite-badass dudes on the battlefield but incapable of actually building civilization or managing average threats. When a nasty enemy shows up they are there, but they can't be everywhere at once so for the 99 other battles in between they have to rely on regular scrubs to keep the peace. I would expect to see something similar in 40k, where the nu-marines reinforce the regular chapters (who at this point are battered and worn) against the surge of threats from chaos but for every one of those the chapter still needs a dozen regular marines to back them up and the Imperium still needs a billion guardsman to fend off ork attacks. GW isn't going to suddenly make the whole Space Marine line unimportant.

At first... but as new marines sell more and more and outpace regular marines. They are destined to be SOB'ed and IG'ed. No model support and as the molds slowly break they won't replace them.

The space marines doom is at hand from their own allies. If I was a loyalist space marine at this point it's a lot like they are tossing out soldiers like defective old models in my eyes. Especially after hundreds of years of service.

I wouldn't stand for that gak. I would leave and take as many of them with me as possible and start out own small empire with as many as who could come with me and really start thinking about how to survive the inevitable super marines coming to execute the faithful.

This feels like the movie soldier from 1998 where the super soldiers that have served for decades are being put out of service for the new ones.

I'd imagine that will be part of the evolving plot. A schism in the Imperium, deeper than any Warp rift.

Sweet new fluff use for my old 4th edition 13th Company force- they are a force of Space Wolves who refuse to be outmoded by these new replacements, but because they refuse to work with this new Crusade, they are forced to use captured Chaos gear to replace their damaged equipment in their war against Magnus and his Thousand Sons.

 Gamgee wrote:
At first... but as new marines sell more and more and outpace regular marines. They are destined to be SOB'ed and IG'ed. No model support and as the molds slowly break they won't replace them.

Molds break? There are model kit molds from the '60s and '70s still pushing out plastic. Somewhere the original molds for the beanies are lying around. Marines pay back their molds quickly so can be replaced with new stuff. Eldar Guardians, apparently not so much.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Except it isn't being forced into the setting, the setting is being altered and they're part of that.

"Forced into the setting" as in, were not something that was hinted at in the past, just suddenly appeared out of almost nowhere and have been done in a way that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can't resist responding to this...this..strange post.

It's as if you have never read a book or watched a TV show or movie ever. Seriously? Your suggesting it is bad form not to telegraph future developments? I, I have no words to rightly epxress how idiotic this is.

W40K is a setting where there is very little technological development, things on a grand scale are mostly unchanging, and there is overall little hope, especially not for the Imperium. That's the way it's been for 10,000 years since the Horus Heresy. This is Deus Ex Machina that's appeared out of nowhere that'll supposedly suddenly save everything, goes against the themes for the past 10,000 years of the Imperium and undermines the core tenants of the setting as a whole.

People keep saying this like the appearance of Nu marines will suddenly end the conflicts of the 40K universe or something. This is moving the story forward to set up new, unresolved future conflicts for the universe.

Seriously is it better if we left it with Abaddon shaking his fist from the Eye of Terror and never having actually launched another crusade? How many more editions of staying on that precipice would people willingly endure before saying, "just get on with it already."

The universe being a setting and not a story is all well and good so long as that setting doesn't grow stale. After the last 10-15 years being relatively the same, I'm all for something new.

I wonder if these new marines will have lower weapon and ballistic skill? The current marines have been fighting for a long time. Some for hundreds of years. These mega marines while physically superior are still technically green as grass.

Also. I wonder if then they will make mega terminators? While I'm behind that I hope they then put out some mega grey Knights (my main army) or I'm going to be rocking the smaller marines for a while

I've always been a strong advocate for the "setting, not a story" argument.

However, 40K is way out in front of every single one of the competitors in terms of how long it's been around, so it is having to cut its own trail at this point.

On balance, I'd probably have preferred them to have dug around a bit in the known setting for material that's only been lightly touched on, but if this is what GW creatives feel they need to do to free themselves up to keep things fresh, I'd rather that than a half arsed attempt to explore a little known corner of the galaxy that nobody at GW was really excited about and ended up being a limp wristed boot on that nobody cared about.

Frankly, as long as the game plays well, I'll be a lot more forgiving of any liberties taken with the fluff.

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
At first... but as new marines sell more and more and outpace regular marines. They are destined to be SOB'ed and IG'ed. No model support and as the molds slowly break they won't replace them.

Molds break? There are model kit molds from the '60s and '70s still pushing out plastic. Somewhere the original molds for the beanies are lying around. Marines pay back their molds quickly so can be replaced with new stuff. Eldar Guardians, apparently not so much.

They do now, but the new super marines are going to be getting the majority of support from here on out if the rumors that backed this release up and were clearly right are any indication. They said it would be very rare for older marines to get anything. Sounds like outdated IG SOB to me who get nothing. The space marines are old news friendo. GW wants them all gone eventually to sell the next generation. Just cannon fodder now really.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I've always been a strong advocate for the "setting, not a story" argument.

However, 40K is way out in front of every single one of the competitors in terms of how long it's been around, so it is having to cut its own trail at this point.

On balance, I'd probably have preferred them to have dug around a bit in the known setting for material that's only been lightly touched on, but if this is what GW creatives feel they need to do to free themselves up to keep things fresh, I'd rather that than a half arsed attempt to explore a little known corner of the galaxy that nobody at GW was really excited about and ended up being a limp wristed boot on that nobody cared about.

Frankly, as long as the game plays well, I'll be a lot more forgiving of any liberties taken with the fluff.

In some ways I would agree with this. The problem is that, without its setting, 40k as a game would have ceased to exist long ago. Nobody gets into 40k because the gameplay is amazing with awesome rules and gripping gameplay. The game, as a ruleset, has always been mediocre at best and often simply awful. People get into it for the IP and deal with the game as a way to have fun with that IP in an interactive way with others. Mucking about in subpar ways with that IP is potentially even more damaging than mucking with the rules in terrible ways.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Except it isn't being forced into the setting, the setting is being altered and they're part of that.

"Forced into the setting" as in, were not something that was hinted at in the past, just suddenly appeared out of almost nowhere and have been done in a way that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I can't resist responding to this...this..strange post.

It's as if you have never read a book or watched a TV show or movie ever. Seriously? Your suggesting it is bad form not to telegraph future developments? I, I have no words to rightly epxress how idiotic this is.

Wait, whut? "Telegraphing future developments" is the defining quality of a great story - foreshadowing. The best story is one that tells you absolutely everything you need to know to figure out the ending, but still manages to surprise you without making you feel thick for not having done so. Stories that rely on "surprise, motherfether!" twists or "suddenly: Jesus saved everyone" deus ex machina are derided as cheap pulp nonsense. Seriously, take a creative writing course sometime.

Um, what is right? Those are YOUR criteria for story telling maybe, but I myself and many others find foreshadowing annoying if over done. Maybe I have a higher comprehension then some but having every fething plot point "hidden" is obnoxious. A great story does not require foreshadowing for every fething development lol. Another hyperbolic out from space line of reasoning. I mean, a setting with super soldiers in armor and your telling me you are surprised by bigger more super soldiers being released? Bahahahaha... I am sorry but..hahahahahaha

The fact that you sit on a high horse and tell me to "learn to write brah!" is even more hilarious. Appeal to authority much? Holy crap mate!

 Gamgee wrote:
At first... but as new marines sell more and more and outpace regular marines. They are destined to be SOB'ed and IG'ed. No model support and as the molds slowly break they won't replace them.

The space marines doom is at hand from their own allies. If I was a loyalist space marine at this point it's a lot like they are tossing out soldiers like defective old models in my eyes. Especially after hundreds of years of service.

I wouldn't stand for that gak. I would leave and take as many of them with me as possible and start out own small empire with as many as who could come with me and really start thinking about how to survive the inevitable super marines coming to execute the faithful.

This feels like the movie soldier from 1998 where the super soldiers that have served for decades are being put out of service for the new ones.

The badab war was started for less. Heck that is the motivation for the fallen... I can't see all space marine chapters being OK with this.

At first... but as new marines sell more and more and outpace regular marines. They are destined to be SOB'ed and IG'ed. No model support and as the molds slowly break they won't replace them.

The space marines doom is at hand from their own allies. If I was a loyalist space marine at this point it's a lot like they are tossing out soldiers like defective old models in my eyes. Especially after hundreds of years of service.

I wouldn't stand for that gak. I would leave and take as many of them with me as possible and start out own small empire with as many as who could come with me and really start thinking about how to survive the inevitable super marines coming to execute the faithful.

This feels like the movie soldier from 1998 where the super soldiers that have served for decades are being put out of service for the new ones.

Soldier, starring Kurt Russell excellent movie. I hope this backfires just as hard.

Granny think they can't possibly sell more marine models, so they decide they will make bigger marines and make them BIGGER, STRONGER, FASTER in universe.

If that is'nt the definition of Derp, I don't know what is...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a serious note, how is that even going to look right on the table top?

That would be like me buying Peter Pig 15mm ACW figures, and figuring I can mix Blue Moon 18mm ACW on the same stand.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I've always been a strong advocate for the "setting, not a story" argument.

However, 40K is way out in front of every single one of the competitors in terms of how long it's been around, so it is having to cut its own trail at this point.

On balance, I'd probably have preferred them to have dug around a bit in the known setting for material that's only been lightly touched on, but if this is what GW creatives feel they need to do to free themselves up to keep things fresh, I'd rather that than a half arsed attempt to explore a little known corner of the galaxy that nobody at GW was really excited about and ended up being a limp wristed boot on that nobody cared about.

Frankly, as long as the game plays well, I'll be a lot more forgiving of any liberties taken with the fluff.

In some ways I would agree with this. The problem is that, without its setting, 40k as a game would have ceased to exist long ago. Nobody gets into 40k because the gameplay is amazing with awesome rules and gripping gameplay. The game, as a ruleset, has always been mediocre at best and often simply awful. People get into it for the IP and deal with the game as a way to have fun with that IP in an interactive way with others. Mucking about in subpar ways with that IP is potentially even more damaging than mucking with the rules in terrible ways.

Mediocre or not, for probably 20 years it was the only game in town. The network effect has been its biggest asset, and despite looking a little rocky for a few years, probably still is. This compensates for a lot of terrible.

You're also making a lot of assumptions about what people are attracted to in the lore, I'd wager more than a few are drawn in by the primary colored, power armoured super humans kicking ass and taking names. In that regard, little looks set to change.

I think new marines is a good idea. The static fluff is not compatible with a company that needs to make new products. Previously we have had new stcs found under sofa cushions or retcons. Did all the Razorbacks with a marine operating the gun get mysteriously destroyed?
By moving the timeline forward to accommodate these guys it at least makes the appearance of these guys more believable, unlike the centurions.
If you don't like the new marines or new fluff, just set your games before they turned up.
There are hundreds of years of history in a massive universe to play with.
There is a new Gaunts ghost novel coming this year with more on the way. The characters in that series are all long dead at the time of the gathering storm.
Even official game material will come that is set before this time. The deathwatch overkill game being a good example of this.
I will wait to see the final pics of the new models, but as someone who is not a massive fan of the marine aesthetic my only complaint is that the design is not different enough. I would have preferred more of the Adeptus Mechanicus style to show in the models.

 bound for glory wrote:

On a serious note, how is that even going to look right on the table top?

That would be like me buying Peter Pig 15mm ACW figures, and figuring I can mix Blue Moon 18mm ACW on the same stand.

It'll look no better or worse than gangly RTB-01 marines next to chunky 2nd ed monopose starter plastics next to 1998 tactical marines.... you know... stuff that already happens and has happened for decades. Marines have never been one particular shape and size until the 3rd-7th edition era and even at the tail end of that were tweaked recently with the Deathwatch box. People will get over it.

 John Prins wrote:
Somebody at GW had the brass to actually pull the trigger on it.

I want to find this person an tickle them for 1.2 seconds.
(That's the equivalent of killing him, but for a silly miniature game that nobody should ever take too seriously, let alone issue death threat about. In other words, it shows how incredibly outraged at them I am. I may even tickle them for 1.3 seconds.)

 Starfarer wrote:
How many more editions of staying on that precipice would people willingly endure before saying, "just get on with it already."

An unbound number. Like, ok, we are at edition 1290810980921 of 40k, the universe is still staying on that precipice, I'm okay with this. On the other hand we would know all the details of the Age of Apostasy and stuff. But no, rather bring the derpmarines.

Ok, ok, ok. Deep breath. Bigger marines, that's dumb. I think that's really dumb, and a tasteless move by gw.

Unless...

They can now be female, too.

In which case I will give them props. Because that would be a clever way to do it.

 Insectum7 wrote:
They can now be female, too.

This is the part where I duck out and just hide for the inevitable insanity.

I'd completely forgive them for Nu marines if that were the case.

Female marines are even more Derp.

Some of the largest and broadest themes within the Imperium of the WH40k universe is that of "pride goes before the fall" and "the best laid plans o' mice an' men go oft awry."

Though Guilliman's intentions may be good, I wouldn't put it past GW to throw a "these new and improved space marines are showing some oddities in their mental and physical stability..." in ways that only someone 10000+ years old and who lived through Terra might recognize to be associated with the likes of Thunder Warriors.

The NuMarines could easily end up in the middle ground between Thunder Warriors, Custodes, and Space Marines - more difficult to produce than Space Marines, but not as much as Custodes; more powerful than Space Marines, but not as much as Custodes and Thunder Warriors; more stable than Thunder Warriors, but less stable than Space Marines and Custodes.

As a side note, the integration of NuMarines into the Space Wolves seems like it would present some serious lore issues (though it really is one of the few ways that Chapter has to return to its former strength).

I can't wait to see the first of these Nu-Marines broken/corrupted/fall to Chaos.

At least this doesn't invalidate the older marks of marine armor in scale or backstory. Its a relief to know that we can still use mk III and IV models for Horus Heresy games. Not that it wasn't always an option...

Leave these oversized things for 40k games.

It all seems pretty obvious to me.

NuMarines are the upscaled replacement models for the current space marine line. New edition, new space marine look. The lore justification is there to ease the fact that armies will look weird with two different scales of models during the transition period to the new kits. No new rules, just different models. Over the next few years there will be a NuMarine Tactical Squad, Assault Squad, Devastator Squad, etc kit to replace the current ones. The current line of space marines will be a quaint relic of the past - much like tiny 2nd ed Terminators with their bumblebee stripe powerfists and fire hose nozzle heavy flamers - justified in lore as the old space marines who haven't died off yet. Eventually NuMarines will just be regular marines, both in the lore and in the store and the current line will be ebay fodder.

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Some of the largest and broadest themes within the Imperium of the WH40k universe is that of "pride goes before the fall" and "the best laid plans o' mice an' men go oft awry."

Though Guilliman's intentions may be good, I wouldn't put it past GW to throw a "these new and improved space marines are showing some oddities in their mental and physical stability..." in ways that only someone 10000+ years old and who lived through Terra might recognize to be associated with the likes of Thunder Warriors.

The NuMarines could easily end up in the middle ground between Thunder Warriors, Custodes, and Space Marines - more difficult to produce than Space Marines, but not as much as Custodes; more powerful than Space Marines, but not as much as Custodes and Thunder Warriors; more stable than Thunder Warriors, but less stable than Space Marines and Custodes.

As a side note, the integration of NuMarines into the Space Wolves seems like it would present some serious lore issues (though it really is one of the few ways that Chapter has to return to its former strength).

Sure they could go that route but it wouldn't make much sense.

If the Imperium has the resources to send Nu-marines to reinforce the ranks of the beleaguered and out numbered Astartes that means that Nu-marines are logistically easier to produce than Astartes. There would never be a reason to use Astartes ever again, just let them slowly be phased out because they are obviously too difficult to make.

Its like the movie Soldier.

Furthermore, unless the starter plaguemarines are as big as nu-marines then chaos players can be secure in knowing that they will be playing littler angry baddie marines of the setting.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Some of the largest and broadest themes within the Imperium of the WH40k universe is that of "pride goes before the fall" and "the best laid plans o' mice an' men go oft awry."

Though Guilliman's intentions may be good, I wouldn't put it past GW to throw a "these new and improved space marines are showing some oddities in their mental and physical stability..." in ways that only someone 10000+ years old and who lived through Terra might recognize to be associated with the likes of Thunder Warriors.

The NuMarines could easily end up in the middle ground between Thunder Warriors, Custodes, and Space Marines - more difficult to produce than Space Marines, but not as much as Custodes; more powerful than Space Marines, but not as much as Custodes and Thunder Warriors; more stable than Thunder Warriors, but less stable than Space Marines and Custodes.

As a side note, the integration of NuMarines into the Space Wolves seems like it would present some serious lore issues (though it really is one of the few ways that Chapter has to return to its former strength).

Sure they could go that route but it wouldn't make much sense.

If the Imperium has the resources to send Nu-marines to reinforce the ranks of the beleaguered and out numbered Astartes that means that Nu-marines are logistically easier to produce than Astartes. There would never be a reason to use Astartes ever again, just let them slowly be phased out because they are obviously too difficult to make.

Its like the movie Soldier.

Furthermore, unless the starter plaguemarines are as big as nu-marines then chaos players can be secure in knowing that they will be playing littler angry baddie marines of the setting.

Maybe these Nu Marines are clones? Or something like clones.

Vat grown soldiers with blank slates to imprint doctrines and such into. More cost effective than marines with similar power, but with some sort of down-side.... there is always one.

 Carnikang wrote:
I can't wait to see the first of these Nu-Marines broken/corrupted/fall to Chaos.

HYDRA DOMINATUS

What makes you think they aren't already?

The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

Happens in politics all the time.

numarines, sigmarines, guillimarines. doesent really bother me and my totally awesomes White Scar biker army!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

I'm convinced people here just have a thing for crying and moaning. Like it's their side hobby.

*biases - no apostrophe needed.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

If they just made bigger space marine models then I would be vaguely annoyed but probably on board. They took the worst path to their goal from my point of view. As a consumer I can choose not get on board with this decision and keep my Tau and Necrons and HH Iron Warriors, while I shoot to rehome my Dark Angels. I can just not like 40k space marines anymore and join the ranks of a lot of people who have never liked space marines.

Its pretty simple. I then can sit on my highest horse and say nu-marines are for diaper babies lol.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

If they just made bigger space marine models then I would be vaguely annoyed but probably on board. They took the worst path to their goal from my point of view. As a consumer I can choose not get on board with this decision and keep my Tau and Necrons and HH Iron Warriors, while I shoot to rehome my Dark Angels. I can just not like 40k space marines anymore and join the ranks of a lot of people who have never liked space marines.

Its pretty simple. I then can sit on my highest horse and say nu-marines are for diaper babies lol.

So, you like your Space Marine army. Numarines are released that you in no way have to use in your army at all. You now dislike the army you previously liked, despite it being the exact same army.

I don't think it matters how they did it. We have a simple decision, buy them or not. I'm leaning towards not. It was the same decision when GW changed the base size. Do it or don't.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
numarines, sigmarines, guillimarines. doesent really bother me and my totally awesomes White Scar biker army!

here's something that should bother you... Jinx saves are proably a thing of the past. *walks off while the white scars player screams in terror* my work here is done*

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

If they just made bigger space marine models then I would be vaguely annoyed but probably on board. They took the worst path to their goal from my point of view. As a consumer I can choose not get on board with this decision and keep my Tau and Necrons and HH Iron Warriors, while I shoot to rehome my Dark Angels. I can just not like 40k space marines anymore and join the ranks of a lot of people who have never liked space marines.

Its pretty simple. I then can sit on my highest horse and say nu-marines are for diaper babies lol.

So, you like your Space Marine army. Numarines are released that you in no way have to use in your army at all. You now dislike the army you previously liked, despite it being the exact same army.

Its not the same though. Adeptus Astartes were mankind's premier fighting force. With Nu-marines that isn't the case anymore. Narrative is shot now, if I the exact same army I will need to get Nu-marines. Besides I actually dislike scale creep...in every game system.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
[snip for space]

Nope. Because you're basically assuming marines won't continue to follow their traditional geneseed based reproduction. Which is complete and utter pants-on-head bollocks.

Did anyone consider these guys may have flaws? Guilliman describes them in a grandiose way in the trailer... but of course he would, it's basically a propaganda speech. Thunder Warriors had a very short lifespan. What if these super marines are the same? What if they are too aggressive? There are a number of interesting ways GW could go with this without impacting sales (these guys will sell regardless). Schisms forming in the current chapters as some support super marines and some don't. Some see them as dangerous. Some may even try to sabotage the whole program. Power struggles on Terra as High Lords oppose Guilliman's megalomaniacal plan to re-conquer the galaxy. I see a lot of potential here for interesting storylines, of which none need be "the super marines are here, they replace all old marines and the galaxy is at peace".

 Mymearan wrote:
Did anyone consider these guys may have flaws? Guilliman describes them in a grandiose way in the trailer... but of course he would, it's basically a propaganda speech. Thunder Warriors had a very short lifespan. What if these super marines are the same? What if they are too aggressive? There are a number of interesting ways GW could go with this without impacting sales (these guys will sell regardless). Schisms forming in the current chapters as some support super marines and some don't. Some see them as dangerous. Some may even try to sabotage the whole program. Power struggles on Terra as High Lords oppose Guilliman's megalomaniacal plan to re-conquer the galaxy. I see a lot of potential here for interesting storylines, of which none need be "the super marines are here, they replace all old marines and the galaxy is at peace".

It could be true, we don't know yet. But this is exactly the sort of reason why people shouldn't freak out yet. I know, I know, internet, but still...

Sigh, pretty un happy about this, as someone with like 10,000 pts of Painted Blood Ravens/Blood Angels.

Guess they can live the rest of their lives out in glass cases. I detest this 'new marine' stuff.

Time to look into playing just 30k I suppose.

Tangential to this but I saw a whole lotta folk in the other thread repeating the claim that the Emperor created the Space Marines so Guilleman and Cawl making a spacer, marineier version was impossible, and I'm trying to figure out how they got this idea into their heads?

The Space Marine project was commissioned by the Emperor at around the same time that he was working on the Primarchs. He had little direct involvement except to suggest using His Primarch work to stabilise the organs. The rest of the project was the work of a bunch of regular humans working together to create the perfect complement to thunder armour (e.g. the sensory organs are redundant in power armour but Thunder Armour with its open helm would benefit greatly from a dude able to selectively filter his own hearing etc) and the resulting set of organs still bears the names of a couple of those otherwise lost geniuses (Lyman's Ear, Larraman's Organ) - the Emperor's personal handiwork, however, they are not.

 Mymearan wrote:
Did anyone consider these guys may have flaws? Guilliman describes them in a grandiose way in the trailer... but of course he would, it's basically a propaganda speech. Thunder Warriors had a very short lifespan. What if these super marines are the same? What if they are too aggressive? There are a number of interesting ways GW could go with this without impacting sales (these guys will sell regardless). Schisms forming in the current chapters as some support super marines and some don't. Some see them as dangerous. Some may even try to sabotage the whole program. Power struggles on Terra as High Lords oppose Guilliman's megalomaniacal plan to re-conquer the galaxy. I see a lot of potential here for interesting storylines, of which none need be "the super marines are here, they replace all old marines and the galaxy is at peace".

Totally agree, there's just not enough info yet. Just like the codex blurbs the trailer is hugely one sided. No doubt the Death guard version will go on and on about how unbeatable plague marines and there new toys are as well.

Spartan117xyz wrote:
I wonder if these new marines will have lower weapon and ballistic skill? The current marines have been fighting for a long time. Some for hundreds of years. These mega marines while physically superior are still technically green as grass.

Also. I wonder if then they will make mega terminators? While I'm behind that I hope they then put out some mega grey Knights (my main army) or I'm going to be rocking the smaller marines for a while

I doubt they will have lower physical and ability stats. But as you say they will probably be relatively green, so I could see them having slightly lower leadership or not having the ATSNKF rule or chapter tactics.

A few thoughts.

I wonder how long it will take for Super Marines to get their own codex: Legionnaire. Deathwatch, Sisters of Silence and Adpetus Custodes spring to mind. Of course, not everyone gets this treatment, of course.

Timmy buys the new Starter. He builds and paints his Dudesmen. Does he look at the smaller, less heroic Marines and find himself a tad disappointed? Wouldn't it be perfectly natural for him to want to continue with an entire force of Super Marines?
(Or will the Superines take the place of Terminators in the Starter?)

This leads me to wonder if Age of Gulliman is going to see an initial release schedule similar to AoS, substituting Submarines with Super Marines.

Super Marines also get around the idea of no female Space Marines. If part of the de-nastification of the Imperium is to get more players to identify with an heroic faction why not tap into female gamers at the same time? I mean people have asked for plastic Sisters of Battle for over a decade. What they didn't know they really wanted was SuperLadyMarines!! NuFeMarines? ;-)

Which could lead to new chapters or whatever they might call them?

Chaos Marines can easily get larger Dudesmen by Gift of their gods.

I'm happy we're getting NuMarines.

Yes I know that GW's eventual aim is to have these completely replace their full Marine line over time, but I'd much rather take an "Skrull Invasion" style change from the old to the new than a "Independence Day" style change.

Whatever else happens, I really hope they tell us what to call them sooner rather than later, and hopefully they decided to take their own IP seriously instead of naming them after a shade of blue.

Starcast?

I might've gone for "Stormtossed," but either or.

Stormborn? Draw in the GoT crowd?

I do hope they get a sensible name. Please let GW have moved past 'DarkBloodWolf' naming conventions.

Excellent. Done.

 Azreal13 wrote:

You're also making a lot of assumptions about what people are attracted to in the lore, I'd wager more than a few are drawn in by the primary colored, power armoured super humans kicking ass and taking names. In that regard, little looks set to change.

But that's part of the problem. Those people now feel cheated because their toys are no longer kick-assiest, name-takiest boys in town.

at least it will take a while before we see fully painted armies of the rescaled marines, im using this as an opportunity to have an end point to my army so i can finally get my painting finished without buying new things. As long as you don't mix and match i think an army will still look good and now our armies are on the way to being vintage.

my guess would be Indomatables. from whence we get the Indomadius crusade

 warboss wrote:
As the owner of over 10,000pts of painted marines (mostly 2nd and 3rd edition models) last I bothered to count them up, I support the move by GW. Would I have preferred just a new model role out to replace the 1998 tactical marine kit? Yeah, probably.

Current Tactical Marine kit was released 2013...

BrianDavion wrote:
my guess would be Indomatables. from whence we get the Indomadius crusade

Ooh...I like that!

 bound for glory wrote:
Female marines are even more Derp.

I don't understand this. Can you explain to me why?

Your all crazy if you think this isn't the first Nu-40k army release like 40k. They'll get books beyond count too. Regular marines being left in the dust.

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ok, ok, ok. Deep breath. Bigger marines, that's dumb. I think that's really dumb, and a tasteless move by gw.

Unless...

They can now be female, too.

In which case I will give them props. Because that would be a clever way to do it.

I don't really have an issue with the move anyway, but actually, I'd be pretty happy with that.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 bound for glory wrote:
Female marines are even more Derp.

I don't understand this. Can you explain to me why?

It usually boils down to girls being icky and having cooties I doubt that GW will introduce female Marines with this release. But the NuMarines don't have the all male fluff inertia that existing Marines have so its not impossible.

The easier solution always was just to slowly reduce the size of the AM and other human. Marines IMO are appropriately scaled to Eldar (tall as them but not as built) and Orks. Tau should probably look a bit more squishy as well.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The easier solution always was just to slowly reduce the size of the AM and other human. Marines IMO are appropriately scaled to Eldar (tall as them but not as built) and Orks. Tau should probably look a bit more squishy as well.

Except this isn't changing the scale of the current Marines, they're a new type of Marine.

Ok, with these new marines I really cant see the existing space marine chapters being happy about this.

If another primarch returns, disagrees with this idea of super marines, could Guilliman end up leading these super marines against fellow primarch(s) and the current space marines?

With approx half the space marines in existence using Ultramarine geneseed, that could seriously tear the space marine forces apart, Half join with Guilliman, the other half resenting these new super marines. Especially if another Primarch (The Lion maybe?) turned up to lead these dissatisfied marine chapters.

Could Guilliman become the new Horus?

Will be interesting to see where these numarines rank compared to the Custodes and Thunder Warriors?

Also, what genetic material has been used - Just Guillimans, various, other? It would be interesting to know.

Another (or though less likely given everything else out there) thought was what if this is the continuation of the project that the raven guard were working on after Istvan? Would be cool if they had a faster way to create marines and have a larger genetically compatible base of humans to work from.

icn1982 wrote:
Ok, with these new marines I really cant see the existing space marine chapters being happy about this.

If another primarch returns, disagrees with this idea of super marines, could Guilliman end up leading these super marines against fellow primarch(s) and the current space marines?

With approx half the space marines in existence using Ultramarine geneseed, that could seriously tear the space marine forces apart, Half join with Guilliman, the other half resenting these new super marines. Especially if another Primarch (The Lion maybe?) turned up to lead these dissatisfied marine chapters.

Could Guilliman become the new Horus?

Will be interesting to see where these numarines rank compared to the Custodes and Thunder Warriors?

Also, what genetic material has been used - Just Guillimans, various, other? It would be interesting to know.

Another (or though less likely given everything else out there) thought was what if this is the continuation of the project that the raven guard were working on after Istvan? Would be cool if they had a faster way to create marines and have a larger genetically compatible base of humans to work from.

Going by what we've seen and he's said (we offer rebirth) my guess is that Guilliman's used the gene-seed of all chapters from the vaults of Mars. Basically he's using the last reserves in the galaxy in a desperate attempt.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

Or maybe shock horror just because you like it doesn't mean others like it too. What a novel concept! But no. Obviously since you like others are jupt inventing justifications

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So, you like your Space Marine army. Numarines are released that you in no way have to use in your army at all. You now dislike the army you previously liked, despite it being the exact same army.

Lets be clear here, we're talking about (massively overpriced) hunks of plastic that we push around a table make pew pew sounds.

Basically the only thing that makes it "cool" or "fun" or "interesting" is the player's imagination, the story behind it, the narrative.

THAT is what's changing. They're the same hunks of plastic, but with a different narrative, and that narrative is what elevated it beyond a hunk of plastic.

If the narrative changes in a way the hobbyist doesn't like, the only real option is to block your ears and go "lalala I'm not listening!!!", which isn't good enough for some people.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 bound for glory wrote:
Female marines are even more Derp.

I don't understand this. Can you explain to me why?

Female physique is weaker. Unless the NuMarines breed via natural means, what would be the point of manufacturing female Marines?

there not hunks of plastic , to me there hours of investment creating somthing that im proud of, ive never really followed the lore so my only concern is my model looking small on the battle field compared to the new marines, but things change and move on i much prefer the new rhinos. no narrative will please everyone and its even harder to please vets

ian wrote:
...no narrative will please everyone...

Of course not.... but largely the reason existing hobbyists picked 40k Space Marines is because they like that specific narrative, so it's best not to feth with core elements of that narrative.

You generally avoid trying to piss off existing customers before trying to please people who are currently your customers. If you want to attempt to capture new customers who might like a different narrative it's better to try and cater to them without pissing off the existing ones. That's why you invent new armies or new settings instead of messing with the ones you currently have.

As time goes on, the new audience that the game has been attracting thinks much differently regarding to fluff than a lot of us, the older players do.
I can totally understand why people are getting upset about it, but I also see that GW need to try new things to get more money flooding in and it is impossible to keep everyone happy !

All these recent story lines have been pretty poor in my opinion and devoid of imagination for the most part, but still a massive part of the player base is really enjoying it and getting pretty excited about the changes, good for them !

I think it will pay off for GW to focus on change and attracting newer players with a different views regarding the background ( or story lines as it seems to be more like now ) even if quite a few of the old guard are not happy.

I think that I am just going to have to keep my fingers in my ears for the next year or two, while sticking to SWA and the HH, and see how it goes.

I can cope with that as long as they keep bringing out funky new stuff like they have recently with the Mechanicus and the GSC.

Despite them being declared a seperate thing, I still believe they are meant to replace the current range eventually.

It's definitely better for everyones wallet to have them phased them out incrementally then just have them replaced all at once, so that's fine with me.

Right now they are portrayed as reinforcements, but further down the road they will inevitably become the mainstay of most marine forces, giving those a slight bump in power in order to make them even more attractive as a playable faction.

GW can round the whole thing out with a few novels in which they explore the oldmarines' perspective on what it is like to be replaced and to accept one's own inferiority (something Marines usually don't have to deal with – sweet irony).

Maybe there's even room for a final uprising and a Horus Heresy Light somewhere down the line, who knows. In any case, I'll be glad to finally shoot properly sized marines in the future.

Backfire wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 bound for glory wrote:
Female marines are even more Derp.

I don't understand this. Can you explain to me why?

Female physique is weaker. Unless the NuMarines breed via natural means, what would be the point of manufacturing female Marines?

Ohhhh no you didn't.

 Rayvon wrote:
As time goes on, the new audience that the game has been attracting thinks much differently regarding to fluff than a lot of us, the older players do.

I'd be interested to hear how many new players are liking the idea of their Space Marines becoming 2nd tier superhumans.

I can't imagine even new players being overly happy about the narrative basis changing under their recent investment of hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours assembling/painting models.

I'm an old player and I mostly don't give a crap because as a Space Wolves player I've already watched my army turn in to a clown show and thus stopped caring about them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 bound for glory wrote:
Female marines are even more Derp.

I don't understand this. Can you explain to me why?

Female physique is weaker. Unless the NuMarines breed via natural means, what would be the point of manufacturing female Marines?

Ohhhh no you didn't.

Oh please god no, lets not turn this in to another female Space Marine thread. I don't want to wake up tomorrow and find 10 pages added to the thread, thinking it's a new rumour but finding it's just 10 pages of bitching about/against female Space Marines (likely from the same handful of people bitching about it every other female Space Marine thread).

Lord Kragan wrote:

icn1982 wrote:
Ok, with these new marines I really cant see the existing space marine chapters being happy about this.

If another primarch returns, disagrees with this idea of super marines, could Guilliman end up leading these super marines against fellow primarch(s) and the current space marines?

With approx half the space marines in existence using Ultramarine geneseed, that could seriously tear the space marine forces apart, Half join with Guilliman, the other half resenting these new super marines. Especially if another Primarch (The Lion maybe?) turned up to lead these dissatisfied marine chapters.

Could Guilliman become the new Horus?

Will be interesting to see where these numarines rank compared to the Custodes and Thunder Warriors?

Also, what genetic material has been used - Just Guillimans, various, other? It would be interesting to know.

Another (or though less likely given everything else out there) thought was what if this is the continuation of the project that the raven guard were working on after Istvan? Would be cool if they had a faster way to create marines and have a larger genetically compatible base of humans to work from.

Going by what we've seen and he's said (we offer rebirth) my guess is that Guilliman's used the gene-seed of all chapters from the vaults of Mars. Basically he's using the last reserves in the galaxy in a desperate attempt.

it's worth noting that if these new Marines represent mostly a new founding, this wouldn't be the first time geneseed has been tinkered with for a new founding.

I'll wait to see what the full fluff on the new marines is before making up my mind....

But all that trailer makes me think is that their super duper marines and that idea doesn't float my boat. Marines are already a group of "captain America" level super soldiers in power armour they don't need to be more super, leave that to the Custodes and Primarchs.

Interestingly it's making me think of the kurt Russel film "Soldier" (watch it if you haven't already)

Whichever way this goes, replacements, reinforcement or new faction, it will be interesting how chapter masters/characters will take it. As whichever way they will be affected ( not so much by a new faction, "oh here's another marine based Army that is better than us") how will they take having newbs that are potentially better than them, or if it is a gradual replacement, what happens to characters, slowly killed off?

People shouldnt worry- every time a primarch is found his chapters will reap the benefits of fresh access to his sweet sweet man juice gene seed.

Loyalists of traitor chapters (blood ravens, and a few other official chapters and ubtold scores of homebrew chapters) are stuffed, though. :(

I hope these space marines 2.0 bigger badder and better, don't have broken and overpowered rules so people don't buy them but that's just me being selfish. I really don't like this and hope they go away by popular demand via the democratic process of no one buying them.

I hope this means they'll be bringing back Corvus Corax. I'd love to see what he thinks about delving into the Emperor's original research in the Empire's darkest hour to develop a new breed of quick grown astartes using genetic data from all the primarchs.

Don't wanna read all 25 pages So, are these BigMarines supposed to just be like special new guys like the vanguard of vanguards? or replacing all of the current marines with more truer-scale models?

 Necros wrote:
Don't wanna read all 25 pages So, are these BigMarines supposed to just be like special new guys like the vanguard of vanguards? or replacing all of the current marines with more truer-scale models?

Yes, and eventually.

In that order.

The official fluff so far is that it's Gulliman's new marines, and rumors indicate that they will be true scale or larger marines, but a lot of people seem to think that it's a ploy so that in the fluff after all the other marines die except these new marines then the not quite new as these new marines will stop being supported and these new marines will be what you have to build future marine armies out of.

I hope they're not all Gullimarines and we still get the variety offered by the different primarchs.

Its the most unoriginal idea in the history of unoriginal ideas.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 bound for glory wrote:
Female marines are even more Derp.

I don't understand this. Can you explain to me why?

Female physique is weaker. Unless the NuMarines breed via natural means, what would be the point of manufacturing female Marines?

Ohhhh no you didn't.

What possible lore justification there could be for female Astartes? Now, female Sigmarines do make sense as they are recruited from mortal heroes and it's perfectly plausible some of them would be female. But Space Marines are actually beyond whole male/female thing.

Any they feel like. It's a new story; write it differently. Nothing to stop anything being possible in a SF universe.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Any they feel like. It's a new story; write it differently. Nothing to stop anything being possible in a SF universe.

And then it's not the same story any more, not the same universe any more and you have driven away the people who came in because they liked that universe. Now, perhaps you draw in more people to replace those who you drove away, but it's a big risk for little gain.

Backfire wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Any they feel like. It's a new story; write it differently. Nothing to stop anything being possible in a SF universe.

And then it's not the same story any more, not the same universe any more and you have driven away the people who came in because they liked that universe. Now, perhaps you draw in more people to replace those who you drove away, but it's a big risk for little gain.

Hardly. Stories evolve. This one is, demonstrably. Sad that this would be a stumbling block for some.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Any they feel like. It's a new story; write it differently. Nothing to stop anything being possible in a SF universe.

And with ALL the possibilities that come with such an new expanded story, their hot new idea is marines...but slightly bigger.

Until such time as GW actually says that there will be Female Space Marines, please leave that speculation out of this thread.

It tends to lead the conversation down ridiculous paths which almost inevitably lead to Thread Lock.

Thanks!

 Grinshanks wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Any they feel like. It's a new story; write it differently. Nothing to stop anything being possible in a SF universe.

And with ALL the possibilities that come with such an new expanded story, their hot new idea is marines...but slightly bigger.

It honestly is the least interesting decision they could have made.

Any "play" with how old marines feel is going to be unoriginal at best. Mostly because that was basically already used in 40k between loyalist chapter space marines and traitorous legion space marines.

Its similar to the movie Soldier but instead of Kurt Russell going on to show what the old guard can do, he instead becomes a background extra that really isn't mentioned again past the first 10 minutes of the movie.

Are they REALLY gonna have a Numarines vs old marines rebelion to somehow get rid of they older models?

*snip* Reds8n

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Any they feel like. It's a new story; write it differently. Nothing to stop anything being possible in a SF universe.

And then it's not the same story any more, not the same universe any more and you have driven away the people who came in because they liked that universe. Now, perhaps you draw in more people to replace those who you drove away, but it's a big risk for little gain.

Hardly. Stories evolve. This one is, demonstrably. Sad that this would be a stumbling block for some.

Of course it will. People are drawn to Warhammer because its own distinct way of doing things. If you do away with those features, you will lose the people. I, for example, was big fan of the Old World, and do not at all like AoS universe. So I do not play that game.

Also, it is an enormous error to assume that fantasy universe needs not rules or internal consistency. They do and if you start breaking those rules on a whim, people are going to desert them because they start to feel "wrong".

We've been given the "move on", dude. Best not pursue that discussion.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
We've been given the "move on", dude. Best not pursue that discussion.

Why? It's a topic discussion - very relevant to why many people don't like the idea of new SuperMarines.

I suppose it could be a simple case of over the centuries the Space Marines have gotten weaker due to the degradation of the Geneseed (think making a copy of a copy thousands of times). In each generation of space marines, it was barely noticeable, but to Gulliman who had been asleep for 10k years, the difference would be very noticeable if we are talking decrease in muscle mass, speed etc.

After all, fluff wise space marines of the Horus Heresy were giants and insanely powerful. Given how popular the Horus Heresy series is (even with non gamers) maybe that is what GW is trying to turn the new marines into, but they cant just say, right, all old marines are wrong - they need a transitional phase

Yo dog, I heard you liked Space Marines so I put a Space Marine inside your Space Marine you can Marine while you Marine!

What a lazy and silly idea. As others have pointed out the Marines +1 idea has already been done to death with Custodes, Grey Knights, etc.

Personally I prefer games that are settings, not stories. I like to tell my own stories with the game and I like to get a feel for the mood and attitude of the setting. But games that are stories invalidate both of those things, taking away control from the player and giving it to the game developer. That's much, much less fun.

I imagine now there's a new process to make marines - presumably faster than the 6-8 years it takes to fully implant a Space Marines, seeing as they're battle-ready so soon after the project began - it will become more time and resource-efficient to replace Marine casualties with NuMarines than fully-implanted Space Marines

so if they were going to entirely replace Space marines with NuMarines, they wouldn't need a civil war, just attrition

 Saber wrote:
Yo dog, I heard you liked Space Marines so I put a Space Marine inside your Space Marine you can Marine while you Marine!

What a lazy and silly idea. As others have pointed out the Marines +1 idea has already been done to death with Custodes, Grey Knights, etc.

 Saber wrote:
Yo dog, I heard you liked Space Marines so I put a Space Marine inside your Space Marine you can Marine while you Marine!

What a lazy and silly idea. As others have pointed out the Marines +1 idea has already been done to death with Custodes, Grey Knights, etc.

Personally I prefer games that are settings, not stories. I like to tell my own stories with the game and I like to get a feel for the mood and attitude of the setting. But games that are stories invalidate both of those things, taking away control from the player and giving it to the game developer. That's much, much less fun.

It does seem lazy, but at the same time why would thry reinvent the wheel? Especially when the setting has a precedent of marines +1.

So, with bigger marines, will they make bigger vehicles for them? Or will they be treated like terminators when it comes to capacity in rhinos, land raiders, etc...?

Yeah. Good point.

Will they replace all the vehicles with large capacity vehicles?

I'm sure they will eventually. If they are making NuMarines to be the main models, that means they will have to make NuTerminators and NuEverythingElse so you can keep buying stuff. Make everything 10% bigger and charge 20% more

 bound for glory wrote:
Yeah. Good point.

Will they replace all the vehicles with large capacity vehicles?

I guess this depends on how 'all in' they are with the new scale marines, and if they really are 'super noticeably bigger', and not just 'annoyingly bigger' like the new scale Deathwatch, etc.

My bet is on no, they will not be replacing all of the vehicles...but this is based purely on my own speculation!

They will probably just be bulky, or whatever the new editions version of bulky is.

 bound for glory wrote:
Are they REALLY gonna have a Numarines vs old marines rebelion to somehow get rid of they older models?

Warhammer 40,000: Civil War

Finally my friend's Deathwatch character, Captus Americus* will have a place he can thrive!





*He's really bad at names.

I want to weigh in on this, but I can't express my opinion without using language that's likely to get me banned from the forum for a bit.

The idea of super marines is just absurd and ruins the fluff in so many ways. I DO NOT LIKE THIS.

I'm off to scream into a pillow now.

 Tamereth wrote:
I want to weigh in on this, but I can't express my opinion without using language that's likely to get me banned from the forum for a bit.

The idea of super marines is just absurd and ruins the fluff in so many ways. I DO NOT LIKE THIS.

I'm off to scream into a pillow now.

That's the spirit!

(Well, it did make me laugh, and exalt a post too!)

Meanwhile - more on topic, less LULZ please.

I also wonder about gameplay aspect of these SuperMarines. So they are bigger and stronger with better weapons - S5 T5 with S5 Boltgun and priced accordingly lest they become overpowered.
What's the point? What role they could possibly play in a Marine army? They already have Veterans and Terminators (oh and Centurions - groan) if they need more punch at some point. Having a regular Marine army with one unit of NuMarines thrown in is not going to do anything for anyone.

Or is the point to reverse dilution of 'elite' which we have seen so that 90% of armies are now 'elite' and regular Marines are just everyday GI Joes. Are GW calculating that many people will play their current Marine armies as "count as SuperMarines" so they feel like an elite army once again? This I can somewhat understand, but since they already redid ALL the codices, they could have tuned things to make regular Marines relatively more powerful.
But maybe that route would have sold less models?

I am still convinced that it was GWs intention to make this new scale marine to undo the wrong scale issue that has been present all along. Deathwatch and Custodes started the bigger marine trend. Most likely a litmus test in the 40k community/sales. More to the point, they saw an opportunity to sell new shiny products to the new incoming players attracted to the new 40k, and also get cash from the old players who don't want to be left behind playing with antiquated miniatures. After all, how many of us are still using our rogue trader era minis to play games these days? Then there's the new stats. Why play an inferior SM army when you can super size them and get better stats? Wether you play them as NuMarines or use them for real scale marines of a current legion. Do not get me wrong, I am happy for the bigger marines and emperor bless GW for making money. It's what companies do afterall. That's not my point(s). The fluff was a well thought out sales strategy to justify selling new stuff and getting a % of current players to "restart" their armies. Brilliant, but don't insult me (GW) by disguising a sales ploy with smoke and mirror fluff.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Backfire wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Any they feel like. It's a new story; write it differently. Nothing to stop anything being possible in a SF universe.

And then it's not the same story any more, not the same universe any more and you have driven away the people who came in because they liked that universe. Now, perhaps you draw in more people to replace those who you drove away, but it's a big risk for little gain.

Hardly. Stories evolve. This one is, demonstrably. Sad that this would be a stumbling block for some.

Except W40K is not a story. It's a setting with very distinct and iconic themes, one of which is the Imperium being a slowly crumbling empire due to it's own internal faults as well as the outside threats. The lack of hope and everything being pretty much stagnant is a core aspect of that setting, and these new Marines suddenly coming out of almost nowhere with the intention of saving everything goes against that whole idea. The stories that take place within that setting are perfectly fine to change thing slightly (e.g. the previous 13th Black Crusade progressed things somewhat while still keeping the setting pretty much the same), but this is a different level of that, this is actually changing one of the important traits of the Imperium and the setting itself. If this had been done in a way that fit in with the lore and wasn't "We found a way to make perfect Marines that are better in every way! And we found out how to make them better armour! And there are lots more of hem so we can send them to all the Chapters and rebuild old ones! And they'll get new vehicles and equipment as well!" and were something that wasn't just Space Marines 2.0, that wouldn't be as much of a problem.

I don't see how this is a good thing in the slightest. For those people who want True Scale Marines it's great, but that isn't what these are really intended for from what we've seen of them. How is it a good thing to remove a critical part of the setting (the lack of hope and progress) to force in a new faction that's pretty much the same in intent and purpose as the previous most popular faction? They're redundant, the setting already had 'better' Marines but they were alright because they had downsides.

Perhaps this will end up going very badly for the Imperium and Roboute, but considering it's being done specifically to sell new models, that seems highly unlikely.

Backfire wrote:
I also wonder about gameplay aspect of these SuperMarines. So they are bigger and stronger with better weapons - S5 T5 with S5 Boltgun and priced accordingly lest they become overpowered.
What's the point? What role they could possibly play in a Marine army?

Actually playing like fluff marines instead of just moderately better? Marines were dumbed down opposite of their fluff for both game balance but especially $$ reasons so GW could sell whole armies instead of just a few combat squads. I'd welcome numarine tacticals that are somewhere between "normal" marines and the old white dwarf "movie" marines. The tabletop guys just simply didn't fit their fluff versions nor the video games nor the rpg variants. Obviously they should be appropriately costed in points (unlike with formations for the past 4 years) to represent that as well. YMMV but I never felt that the range of abilities was wide enough within the 3rd-7th ed 40k game mechanics especially once they started narrowing it down further in late 5th (characters losing higher stats). Hopefully that will change in nuhammer.

 Saber wrote:
Personally I prefer games that are settings, not stories. I like to tell my own stories with the game and I like to get a feel for the mood and attitude of the setting. But games that are stories invalidate both of those things, taking away control from the player and giving it to the game developer. That's much, much less fun.

Ditto. I don't mind them telling stories within the setting, or even advancing the timeline as long as the setting doesn't really change.

I know some people have been crying for the story to be advanced, but I reckon there's a good chance those people are just a noisy minority.

For all these years 40k and WHFB existed as settings wherein stories were told, not stories within themselves, and I was totally fine with that.

Oh yay. The story/setting thing. We haven't had that in any threads ever.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Oh yay. The story/setting thing. We haven't had that in any threads ever.

If you don't have a worthwhile response, how about just not responding?

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Saber wrote:
Yo dog, I heard you liked Space Marines so I put a Space Marine inside your Space Marine you can Marine while you Marine!

What a lazy and silly idea. As others have pointed out the Marines +1 idea has already been done to death with Custodes, Grey Knights, etc.

And people apparently keep buying them....

 Azreal13 wrote:
Foreshadowing is a creative device, it's not the sole one, it isn't an obligation and it certainly isn't an indicator of quality unless done well, just like pretty much every other storytelling technique.

Again - take a creative writing course. If you're writing standard fiction rather than pretentious arthouse nonsense, foreshadowing is completely critical to producing a coherent result - you make the reader promises, and then you give them a payoff. Properly executed twists are not about springing stuff on the reader out of nowhere, but about carefully obfuscating the promises so that the payoff still surprises - the ideal reaction should be the reader slapping their forehead and exclaiming "aha, of course!" not "Eh, whut? Where'd that come from?". Or at the very least, it requires that you're capable enough to go back and retroactively tie things together in a way that makes it look like the outcome was intended all along.

So, for example, rather than the story of the nuMarines essentially being "Hey I'm Cawl, 10,000 years ago I was set a task by the Big Man himself to build nuMarines, but then everything went to gak so I stopped and have been fannying about doing my own thing for 10 millennia. Now the Big Man's son is back and annoyed at my slacking off, so I've somehow finished my work in a hilariously short amount of time and SURPRISE! Happy rebirthday Rowboat!" they could have dug into the old material and inserted Cawl into it as the shadowy, borderline-Heretekal mastermind behind the disatrous Cursed Founding, the Homo Sapiens Novus incident, had him be a backer for radical genecraft projects within the Inquisition like the Elysian D-99 and so forth, all part of his 10,000 year quest to achieve the goal he was set without direct access to the Emperor's knowledge, and that he was finally able to make his work semi-viable when given the chance to sample Rowboat's biology first-hand(personally I'd have still had them be seriously flawed in some way but deployed by Rowboat regardless out of desperation, maybe bring back some of the Rogue Trader-era characertisation of Space Marines as monstrous thugs, but I expect that wouldn't be noblebright enough for nuGW). Hell, throw some Fabius into the mix, explain the escaped Novus subject signalling him as being the result of infiltrators working for Fabius worming their way into Cawl's operations, have them be adversaries both trying to unlock the Emperor's genius for different reasons and coming into direct & indirect conflict over the years.

Basically, anything but "we need to sell these new Marine models - just say that Cawl guy we made up five minutes ago did it the weekend after Rowboat woke up".

 Yodhrin wrote:
they could have dug into the old material and inserted Cawl into it as the shadowy, borderline-Heretekal mastermind behind the disatrous Cursed Founding, the Homo Sapiens Novus incident, had him be a backer for radical genecraft projects within the Inquisition like the Elysian D-99 and so forth, all part of his 10,000 year quest to achieve the goal he was set without direct access to the Emperor's knowledge, and that he was finally able to make his work semi-viable when given the chance to sample Rowboat's biology first-hand(personally I'd have still had them be seriously flawed in some way but deployed by Rowboat regardless out of desperation, maybe bring back some of the Rogue Trader-era characertisation of Space Marines as monstrous thugs, but I expect that wouldn't be noblebright enough for nuGW). Hell, throw some Fabius into the mix, explain the escaped Novus subject signalling him as being the result of infiltrators working for Fabius worming their way into Cawl's operations, have them be adversaries both trying to unlock the Emperor's genius for different reasons and coming into direct & indirect conflict over the years.

GW should hire you.

After many years to me is pretty obvius that normally, the fans are more dedicated and know more of a universe/history/setting, etc... that even their creators. And if we are talking about a universe like 40k, built by dozens of people, with different objetives and visions of it, even more.

I can't see GW creating a new type of space marine that are bigger and badder because of a longing for a certain scale that isn't entirely accurate either. I just don't see a pet project mindset being cleared through all the levels of GW to greenlight for a scale switcher-roo with fluff tacked on that really is just normal space marines but temporarily going to be new space marines until such a time as the entire plastic space marine line has been updated into a new scale that some felt space marines should be in.

More likely some guys in sales told some guys on the model design team to replicate the Sigmarine sales with new minis and the design team interpreted that as bigger space marine models. But then the fluff writers wanted to tie that into their hack job gathering storm story and turned those bigger space marine models into a new type of space marine because there had to be a reason.

Long story short, we are experiencing the full circle of space marines affecting fantasy's revamp and now fantasy's sigmarines affecting 40k's revamp.

krazynadechukr wrote:
I am still convinced that it was GWs intention to make this new scale marine to undo the wrong scale issue that has been present all along.

How many times does this need repeating? Space Marines are not out of scale. The normal humans are.

Also bigger models are easier to paint by GW newbs and the design studio can cram more intricate detail (and more detail in general) than they can on smaller minies (not to mention that they're easier to spot from distance). Lore reasons and the strive for an in lore accurate scale are, ofcourse, laughable as reasons for the new marines to exist. It is pretty obvious to anyone in the thread - no use on threading about why there are new marines

Hopefully that will be the last time it needs to be repeated?

(Well, on this page anyway!)

All kidding aside, GW's messed up on a lot of issues, scale-wise.

This might be attempt to 'fix'...something, but more likely is an attempt to sell more things to Marines players - players that represent the largest portion of their customer base.

Indeed, this is the scale "fix" that also happens to be the most lucrative.

 Accolade wrote:
Indeed, this is the scale "fix" that also happens to be the most lucrative.

Right? If they wanted scale fix they should have started with the rhino chassis.

Ruin wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:
I am still convinced that it was GWs intention to make this new scale marine to undo the wrong scale issue that has been present all along.

How many times does this need repeating? Space Marines are not out of scale. The normal humans are.

I never said SM were (originally) out of scale, I said the new scale of space marines are an answer to remedy the scale issue in 40k. However, with the humans that threw off the scale, the marines have become out of scale as a result. I agree with you in regards to humans being made too big and when introduced into 40k with the existing miniatures, threw off the scaling. That being said, GW saw an opening to fix the problem by making bigger marines (instead of redoing guard, which is a huge blunder because many want new guard multi-option plastic kits, Valhallans for example...), that are now true to scale with the existing human models. It would be great if they released new guard at 85-90% the size they are now because the current models are a little odd looking, IMHO.

 D6Damager wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Saber wrote:
Yo dog, I heard you liked Space Marines so I put a Space Marine inside your Space Marine you can Marine while you Marine!

What a lazy and silly idea. As others have pointed out the Marines +1 idea has already been done to death with Custodes, Grey Knights, etc.

And people apparently keep buying them....

to be fair, Custodes are not marines, Grey knights are kinda marines but not marines. Marines dont have an Actual marine +1

Grey Knights kind of are Marines+1, but it is not as bothersome since they are specialised anti-demon fighters, they are secret, and they are extremely limited in their numbers. As such, they don't really compete with Marines in the same way.

The nu-marines, on the other hand, just seem to be designed as Marines but better in every way and more useful in every situation, which feels... less than ideal.

Someone on 4chan did this scaling shot. They're not truescale or giant, just have legs that look kinda different.

Anyone thinking granny is doing this for the LULZ?

The legs are the least proportionate part of the current models so I can see why they would change them. It looks much better in my opinion.

HOWEVER, if this welcome change is accompanied by a new faction of WardMarines I'm going to be sorely disappointed!

 Yodhrin wrote:
Again - take a creative writing course. If you're writing standard fiction rather than pretentious arthouse nonsense, foreshadowing is completely critical to producing a coherent result

Hollywood loves you! You bought a formula and now can't see anything but that formula.

But better still 40K is build on the back of retconning rather than clever foreshadowing and misdirection. Not surprising since comics were a big inspiration to the early designers. If Aspect Warriors and new races can appear whole cloth out of no where or orgs can ceasing being Reavers and become animate psychotic mushrooms then Cawl can appear with his 10K years of work after reviving a Primarch with a bunch of other characters that just appeared out of no where. At least GW has been telegraphing (foreshadowing) the return of Primarchs to 40K.

I just want to see these bad boys and find out if their Ultramarines only or...

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Again - take a creative writing course. If you're writing standard fiction rather than pretentious arthouse nonsense, foreshadowing is completely critical to producing a coherent result

I just want to see these bad boys and find out if their Ultramarines only or...

Video actually says, paraphrasing here, for the chapters that are depleted we offer a rebirth... at 1:12 on video...

Chairman Aeon wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Again - take a creative writing course. If you're writing standard fiction rather than pretentious arthouse nonsense, foreshadowing is completely critical to producing a coherent result

Hollywood loves you! You bought a formula and now can't see anything but that formula.

But better still 40K is build on the back of retconning rather than clever foreshadowing and misdirection. Not surprising since comics were a big inspiration to the early designers. If Aspect Warriors and new races can appear whole cloth out of no where or orgs can ceasing being Reavers and become animate psychotic mushrooms then Cawl can appear with his 10K years of work after reviving a Primarch with a bunch of other characters that just appeared out of no where. At least GW has been telegraphing (foreshadowing) the return of Primarchs to 40K.

I just want to see these bad boys and find out if their Ultramarines only or...

The video implies any chapter can take them. Def not Ultramarines only.

Ruin wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:
I am still convinced that it was GWs intention to make this new scale marine to undo the wrong scale issue that has been present all along.

How many times does this need repeating? Space Marines are not out of scale. The normal humans are.

Honestly, that argument just doesn't wash. You could point at any random faction in the 40k range and say, "that's the one that's the correct scale!"

The fact remains that most of GW's recent human(ish) releases ( genestealer cults, sisters of silence, Adeptus Mechanicum) are beautiful miniatures and pretty much correctly scaled to each other. Space marines are the exceptions, badly proportioned and with weird anatomy. I know which one I'd rather GW replaced.

I'm in the camp of those who've never wanted a marine army before because they're dome of GW's worst miniatures (imho). Now, I'm cautiously optimistic that these new marines may finally be the marines I've been waiting for.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

Ruin wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:
I am still convinced that it was GWs intention to make this new scale marine to undo the wrong scale issue that has been present all along.

How many times does this need repeating? Space Marines are not out of scale. The normal humans are.

Honestly, that argument just doesn't wash. You could point at any random faction in the 40k range and say, "that's the one that's the correct scale!"

The fact remains that most of GW's recent human(ish) releases ( genestealer cults, sisters of silence, Adeptus Mechanicum) are beautiful miniatures and pretty much correctly scaled to each other. Space marines are the exceptions, badly proportioned and with weird anatomy. I know which one I'd rather GW replaced.

I'm in the camp of those who've never wanted a marine army before because they're dome of GW's worst miniatures (imho). Now, I'm cautiously optimistic that these new marines may finally be the marines I've been waiting for.

Can we put this whole debate of scale to rest now?

Bigger marines are coming, some people's opinion is that it'll look more realistic with the existing miniatures on the table, and it is what it is.

I hope new guard will come soon. Plastic kit that can be made into one of several famous guard armies. That'd be nice.

This is awesome! After that nonsense with the primarch returning I decided I no longer have any interest in any of the fluff they produce from now on. And since my games are all going to be set pre-Gathering Storm I can skip these Bigmarines too! If all the new releases are going to be for stuff that only exists in this new awful setting going forward, I'm gonna save so much money! Maybe I'll actually finish my Pile of Shame!

Too bad we're never getting plastic techmarines though...

just a thought - what if they aren't a new space marine faction
but rather rules wise an 'up-grade' to normal Space Marine Squads something along the lines of any space marine squad can be upgraded to Indominable Marines (given that is called the Indomidus crusade, this name works as well as any) for x points

icn1982 wrote:
just a thought - what if they aren't a new space marine faction
but rather rules wise an 'up-grade' to normal Space Marine Squads something along the lines of any space marine squad can be upgraded to Indominable Marines (given that is called the Indomidus crusade, this name works as well as any) for x points

This is most definitely what is going to happen. They will be a unit not a faction. That's where i've put my bet.

 warboss wrote:
Actually playing like fluff marines

They already do, unless your definition of "fluff marines" is "unbeatable boring-ass mary sues who get to treat everyone else as nothing more than punching bags for marine players to get their jollies off on".

Space Marines are badass. So's everyone else. And that upsets you, I get it. Doesn't make it unfluffy.

This thread probably lasted longer than many thought, but since Rule #1 seems to be in constant danger here...


...see you all when GW releases more (any? actual?) details!