I'm betting it costs at least as much as a Land Raider.
It's pretty big and if it comes as a dual kit with the rumoured side sponsons, it can also serve as a battle tank.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I'm glad to see that the SM codex and Chaos Codex will likely retain the chapters/legion rules. However I am disappointed that:
1.) Grey Knights get their own codex again, rather than being rolled up with the Inquisition and SoBs. I know people would bemoan me bemoaning this but Knights never really had enough going for them to be a standalone force; they're daemon-hunting specialists and should remain so, relying on support from the other aspects of the Imperial Agents to fill in their gaps.
2.) Death Guard getting their own codex. While I do praise that the Sons of Mortarion are finally getting the proper recognition they deserved (something that was only briefly touched upon in the Traitor Legions supplement and was only really seen back in the 3.5 ed dex), getting their own codex only bumps up the MEQ dexes to even more absurd heights. And this is coming from a Death Guard player. I would have been more than satisfied just having my Plague Terminators back and a DG Havoc Squad rather than my own standalone book.
I think that #2 is one of those things that people are going to have to come to terms with. Age of Sigmar has shown that the different Chaos Gods can work quite well as standalone books and forces, and I really hope that they keep that up.
I honestly can't wait to see how they bring the god specific forces they've done for AoS(Rotbringers, Bloodbound, and Disciples) into 40k.
Codex: Children of Nurgle covering Legion, Daemon and Renegade (Guard and Astartes) forces would have been great, fluffy and likely fun as well as providing something for the non marine players and highlighting that the Chaos Gods fight each other as much as anyone else.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'm hoping for lots of little feet rather than tracks similar to those from the community page (although I don't think they're for this, but from an AoS nurgle creature)
Well, we know Maggoths are coming to 40k so why couldn't it be something for both?
How do we know that they're coming? Did I miss a rumour or something?
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I'm hoping for lots of little feet rather than tracks similar to those from the community page (although I don't think they're for this, but from an AoS nurgle creature)
Well, we know Maggoths are coming to 40k so why couldn't it be something for both?
How do we know that they're coming? Did I miss a rumour or something?
Hanskrampf wrote: I'm betting it costs at least as much as a Land Raider.
It's pretty big and if it comes as a dual kit with the rumoured side sponsons, it can also serve as a battle tank.
I'm betting it costs quite a bit more than a Land Raider.
Did we get pricing on that flying Primaris Land Raider yet? I expect they'll be the same.
Hanskrampf wrote: I'm betting it costs at least as much as a Land Raider.
It's pretty big and if it comes as a dual kit with the rumoured side sponsons, it can also serve as a battle tank.
It's kinda hard to do a size comparison of it vs the rhino. It doesn't look that much bigger, when you consider the way it dips in the back and how much of it's width is the sponsons. I'm hoping maybe not quite land raider prices, but.... who knows.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I'm glad to see that the SM codex and Chaos Codex will likely retain the chapters/legion rules. However I am disappointed that:
1.) Grey Knights get their own codex again, rather than being rolled up with the Inquisition and SoBs. I know people would bemoan me bemoaning this but Knights never really had enough going for them to be a standalone force; they're daemon-hunting specialists and should remain so, relying on support from the other aspects of the Imperial Agents to fill in their gaps.
2.) Death Guard getting their own codex. While I do praise that the Sons of Mortarion are finally getting the proper recognition they deserved (something that was only briefly touched upon in the Traitor Legions supplement and was only really seen back in the 3.5 ed dex), getting their own codex only bumps up the MEQ dexes to even more absurd heights. And this is coming from a Death Guard player. I would have been more than satisfied just having my Plague Terminators back and a DG Havoc Squad rather than my own standalone book.
Deathguard aren't MEQ there movement 5, toughness 5 it would be like claiming sisters of MEQ, just because they have power armour.
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I'm glad to see that the SM codex and Chaos Codex will likely retain the chapters/legion rules. However I am disappointed that:
1.) Grey Knights get their own codex again, rather than being rolled up with the Inquisition and SoBs. I know people would bemoan me bemoaning this but Knights never really had enough going for them to be a standalone force; they're daemon-hunting specialists and should remain so, relying on support from the other aspects of the Imperial Agents to fill in their gaps.
2.) Death Guard getting their own codex. While I do praise that the Sons of Mortarion are finally getting the proper recognition they deserved (something that was only briefly touched upon in the Traitor Legions supplement and was only really seen back in the 3.5 ed dex), getting their own codex only bumps up the MEQ dexes to even more absurd heights. And this is coming from a Death Guard player. I would have been more than satisfied just having my Plague Terminators back and a DG Havoc Squad rather than my own standalone book.
Deathguard aren't MEQ there movement 5, toughness 5 it would be like claiming sisters of MEQ, just because they have power armour.
Eh, sort of. Originally the mark of nurgle gave +1T iirc, so technically they are meq with bonus toughness.
Didn't know they were movement 5 though. That's a nice distinction.
Hanskrampf wrote: I'm betting it costs at least as much as a Land Raider.
It's pretty big and if it comes as a dual kit with the rumoured side sponsons, it can also serve as a battle tank.
TBH it looks almost like a Doomwheel to me. Are we sure it's a Nurgle specific vehicle?
Points will change. Rules will change. Some units are NOT in the codex so you will also need your index.
I'm glad they are already fixing points and rules! Maybe some of the new OP units (IG, looking at you) will get fixed asap.
From the community article....
What’s the difference between a codex and an index book?
The indexes let you play with your Warhammer 40,000 army until the codex for your faction is released. The idea being that the rules for units in codexes eventually supersede the rules for them presented in the index books.
Is my index invalid now?
Not at all. Even with the pace we’re planning on releases these new codexes, it’s going to take well over a year to get to all of them. No single codex will cover all the contents of an index book, so you’ll get plenty of use out of all your indexes, don’t worry.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I read this the first FAQ says "No, Indexes will be used until you have a codex." And then the next FAQ question says "Indexes will always be needed."
So, which is it? That's where the confusion is coming from.
Points will change. Rules will change. Some units are NOT in the codex so you will also need your index.
I'm glad they are already fixing points and rules! Maybe some of the new OP units (IG, looking at you) will get fixed asap.
From the community article....
What’s the difference between a codex and an index book?
The indexes let you play with your Warhammer 40,000 army until the codex for your faction is released. The idea being that the rules for units in codexes eventually supersede the rules for them presented in the index books.
Is my index invalid now?
Not at all. Even with the pace we’re planning on releases these new codexes, it’s going to take well over a year to get to all of them. No single codex will cover all the contents of an index book, so you’ll get plenty of use out of all your indexes, don’t worry.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I read this the first FAQ says "No, Indexes will be used until you have a codex." And then the next FAQ question says "Indexes will always be needed."
So, which is it? That's where the confusion is coming from.
Whichever makes you spend the most money on books, obviously. That's been their strategy since 7th.
Points will change. Rules will change. Some units are NOT in the codex so you will also need your index.
I'm glad they are already fixing points and rules! Maybe some of the new OP units (IG, looking at you) will get fixed asap.
From the community article....
What’s the difference between a codex and an index book?
The indexes let you play with your Warhammer 40,000 army until the codex for your faction is released. The idea being that the rules for units in codexes eventually supersede the rules for them presented in the index books.
Is my index invalid now?
Not at all. Even with the pace we’re planning on releases these new codexes, it’s going to take well over a year to get to all of them. No single codex will cover all the contents of an index book, so you’ll get plenty of use out of all your indexes, don’t worry.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I read this the first FAQ says "No, Indexes will be used until you have a codex." And then the next FAQ question says "Indexes will always be needed."
So, which is it? That's where the confusion is coming from.
That's literally not what that second answer says.
Speaking of new things Nurgle, there are a few apparently new unit types listed in the Forces of Chaos lists for the different warzones in the hardback rulebook. Pages 159 and 161.
Ultramar
Sporewalker... Colossal Beast
Cult of Renewal... Seercult
Winged Rotflies... Mutated Fly Swarm
Befoulers... 7 Claw Corps
Seven Blights... 3 Blight Towers
Keepers of the Cauldron... Seercult
Infumers... 3 Chem Legions
Slimehorn Legions... 7 Pestigor Legions
MechaEmperor7000 wrote: I'm glad to see that the SM codex and Chaos Codex will likely retain the chapters/legion rules. However I am disappointed that:
1.) Grey Knights get their own codex again, rather than being rolled up with the Inquisition and SoBs. I know people would bemoan me bemoaning this but Knights never really had enough going for them to be a standalone force; they're daemon-hunting specialists and should remain so, relying on support from the other aspects of the Imperial Agents to fill in their gaps.
I'm really hoping Sisters aren't stuck with Inquisition again, or anyone else. I've been waiting for an actual, real honest to god Sisters codex that updates the army and doesn't include a bunch of rando men and didn't just a cut and paste of the 2nd edition marines codex for literally 20 years. Every Sisters rules release has been a huge disappointment, and I'd hate to see that continued.
timd wrote: Speaking of new things Nurgle, there are a few apparently new unit types listed in the Forces of Chaos lists for the different warzones in the hardback rulebook. Pages 159 and 161.
Ultramar
Sporewalker... Colossal Beast
Cult of Renewal... Seercult
Winged Rotflies... Mutated Fly Swarm
Befoulers... 7 Claw Corps
Seven Blights... 3 Blight Towers
Keepers of the Cauldron... Seercult
Infumers... 3 Chem Legions
Slimehorn Legions... 7 Pestigor Legions
Cadia
The Horned... Pestigor Legion
T
Those aren't unit names, they're the names of various forces.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I read this the first FAQ says "No, Indexes will be used until you have a codex." And then the next FAQ question says "Indexes will always be needed."
So, which is it? That's where the confusion is coming from.
What they're saying is that the codex replaces the index entry for that army, but as the indexes contain more than a single army, each Index book is still 'valid' until all of the armies contained therein receive a codex.
It's just that the amount of valid content in each Index book will steadily decrease as more codexes are released.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I read this the first FAQ says "No, Indexes will be used until you have a codex." And then the next FAQ question says "Indexes will always be needed."
So, which is it? That's where the confusion is coming from.
What they're saying is that the codex replaces the index entry for that army, but as the indexes contain more than a single army, each Index book is still 'valid' until all of the armies contained therein receive a codex.
It's just that the amount of valid content in each Index book will steadily decrease as more codexes are released.
and even then special things likely won't see codex entries, such as the Imperial Space Marine
timd wrote: Speaking of new things Nurgle, there are a few apparently new unit types listed in the Forces of Chaos lists for the different warzones in the hardback rulebook. Pages 159 and 161.
Ultramar
Sporewalker... Colossal Beast
Cult of Renewal... Seercult
Winged Rotflies... Mutated Fly Swarm
Befoulers... 7 Claw Corps
Seven Blights... 3 Blight Towers
Keepers of the Cauldron... Seercult
Infumers... 3 Chem Legions
Slimehorn Legions... 7 Pestigor Legions
Cadia
The Horned... Pestigor Legion
T
Those aren't unit names, they're the names of various forces.
I said unit TYPES, not names in reference to the second part of each listing. We have not seen Pestigors in 40K since the original Realms of Chaos books. Blight towers could be Plague Tower of Nurgle from the old Epic game. 40K has never had a Nurgle Colossal Beast, Seercult, Mutated Fly Swarm, Claw Corps or Chem Legions before, so at least some of these could be new Nurgle unit types that will expand the types of unit available to Nurgle based 40K armies.
I would imagine we are getting Pestigors for sure given the recent release of the Tzaangors for both AoS and 40K. Chem Legions and Seercult could be cultist units as opposed to the zombie Poxwalkers. A mutated colossal beast of some sort (as opposed to demon) and Plague Towers of Nurgle could be great additions as well.
timd wrote: Speaking of new things Nurgle, there are a few apparently new unit types listed in the Forces of Chaos lists for the different warzones in the hardback rulebook. Pages 159 and 161.
Ultramar
Sporewalker... Colossal Beast
Cult of Renewal... Seercult
Winged Rotflies... Mutated Fly Swarm
Befoulers... 7 Claw Corps
Seven Blights... 3 Blight Towers
Keepers of the Cauldron... Seercult
Infumers... 3 Chem Legions
Slimehorn Legions... 7 Pestigor Legions
Cadia
The Horned... Pestigor Legion
T
Pesitgors, poxwalkers, and normal cultists as well? Eh.... dunno, kinda hope they just don't bother with the pestigors as part of the DG stuff. We've already got zombies, and there is a limit to how much non space marine stuff I want in my deathguard.
The rest of it could really be anything. The colossal beast could be FW's chaos spawn variants. Chem units could be anything from cultists with chemical weapons to unique DG units specializing in chemical warfare, to nothing we ever see on the table top. Same with rot flies.
timd wrote: Speaking of new things Nurgle, there are a few apparently new unit types listed in the Forces of Chaos lists for the different warzones in the hardback rulebook. Pages 159 and 161.
Ultramar
Sporewalker... Colossal Beast
Cult of Renewal... Seercult
Winged Rotflies... Mutated Fly Swarm
Befoulers... 7 Claw Corps
Seven Blights... 3 Blight Towers
Keepers of the Cauldron... Seercult
Infumers... 3 Chem Legions
Slimehorn Legions... 7 Pestigor Legions
Cadia
The Horned... Pestigor Legion
T
I saw these lists, too, but I think they are mostly just for flavor. There are similar lists for the other gods as well. I found it rather interesting that poxwalkers are nowhere to be seen in the rulebook, makes you wonder when they came up with the idea to not just name them zombies (who appear in the RB). The Death Guard booklet also names two other versions of DG sorcerers, which I think are more probable to get rules than some of the things in the rulebook lists.
I dunno.. Pestigor seems pretty on the nose.. not really too much that can be confused with tbh. Though.. I dunno.. I like the idea of Chaos Beastmen returning to 40k but Pestigor is probably not where I would've preferred it done I think..
Atia was mentioning Pestigors a few times in addition to zombies. Sounded like a rumor about a future kit to me. See her post in the WoS comment section ~7 months ago
Automatically Appended Next Post: Khorngors are in the fluff section of the 8th ed rulebook, too. It would not surprise me if they will get a kit as well in the future
As mentioned earlier they were both in the Realm of Chaos books
A couple of pages in, in the new rulebook, there is a two page picture of Nurgle forces attacking Ultramarines. (The picture with mortarion floating around.) In the bottom left of the picture you can see some Novamarines being attacked by giant Nurgle creatures. Are these the Maggoths people are talking about?
I don't have my rule book with me at the moment so I can't attach a picture.
Marleymoo wrote: A couple of pages in, in the new rulebook, there is a two page picture of Nurgle forces attacking Ultramarines. (The picture with mortarion floating around.) In the bottom left of the picture you can see some Novamarines being attacked by giant Nurgle creatures. Are these the Maggoths people are talking about?
I don't have my rule book with me at the moment so I can't attach a picture.
I hope so, because I thought it looked like an Ultralisk from starcraft (and they are awesome!)
Marleymoo wrote: A couple of pages in, in the new rulebook, there is a two page picture of Nurgle forces attacking Ultramarines. (The picture with mortarion floating around.) In the bottom left of the picture you can see some Novamarines being attacked by giant Nurgle creatures. Are these the Maggoths people are talking about?
I don't have my rule book with me at the moment so I can't attach a picture.
There was a Rumour Engine picture with what looked like a lot of obese feet crammed together which match closer to the creature on the Ultramar picture.
@aracersss thats the picture. If you look at the W in warhammer community you can just see the spikes on its back. The picture in the rule book doesn't have the text down the side.
Do people really only see value in an index if it has the newest rules for their own army? I view it as a cost-effective way to have rules for the armies I might be facing or preview armies I might be interested in. I only really play my Necrons anymore in 40k, but I plan to have all 5 indices eventually just in case.
Honestly, I'm willing to stick with the indexes for two reasons - primarily, it will be some time before all armies have their own codex (and I still have my old copies for the fluff). Second, if the additions in the codex make it so you can't win with the army without it, GW has failed to keep their game balanced, and I want no part of that. Ideally, the codex should fix any issues with unit costing or add "fun", but not unbalanced, options. If its a case of modifying unit costs or rules, I would hope those changes would also be updated in FAQs/Errata for the indexes - if they're not, I feel completely justified "X'ing out the costs in the back of my book and writing it in either from an army builder app or copying it from looking at a friend's copy.
MLaw wrote: I dunno.. Pestigor seems pretty on the nose.. not really too much that can be confused with tbh. Though.. I dunno.. I like the idea of Chaos Beastmen returning to 40k but Pestigor is probably not where I would've preferred it done I think..
Chaos Beastmen have already returned to 40K in the form of the Tzaangor kit which includes models armed with chainswords and autopistols: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/tzaangors?_requestid=29175676 I'm thinking we will be getting beastmen for all four Chaos gods.
Pesitgors, poxwalkers, and normal cultists as well? Eh.... dunno, kinda hope they just don't bother with the pestigors as part of the DG stuff. We've already got zombies, and there is a limit to how much non space marine stuff I want in my deathguard.
In the background fluff and novels Death Guard are usually seen in small contingents with larger numbers of cultists, renegade guard and zombies as accompanying cannon fodder. Cadian Blood is a great read for Death Guard fans.
Stormonu wrote: Honestly, I'm willing to stick with the indexes for two reasons - primarily, it will be some time before all armies have their own codex (and I still have my old copies for the fluff). Second, if the additions in the codex make it so you can't win with the army without it, GW has failed to keep their game balanced, and I want no part of that. Ideally, the codex should fix any issues with unit costing or add "fun", but not unbalanced, options. If its a case of modifying unit costs or rules, I would hope those changes would also be updated in FAQs/Errata for the indexes - if they're not, I feel completely justified "X'ing out the costs in the back of my book and writing it in either from an army builder app or copying it from looking at a friend's copy.
I avoided buying the GW indexes as I just knew the codexes would be out very quickly. I bought the FW indexes as I know those will update considerably slower. I'm surprised anybody is surprised this is happening, GW have to release new models and new books on an ongoing basis.
I think the codixes vs. indexes brings about a very interesting point in GW's new multiple price points. Casual, budget concious and home gamers (I suppose, like me), might be satified with the indexes, especially with them containing just the rules and multiple armies. Those wanting more depth may only be satified with a Codex, even though it covers only a single army.
I bought the complete set of Indexes - partly so I can play anything I want, but also because they were so cheap.
I would have prefered no Codexes and instead lots of campaign packs focussing on seevral factions each time - big book of fluff and smaller conscise book of rules. That way we get more intersting background stuff, cool new models and not just the same old informaiton I already have in the dozens of Codexes I already have.
Power creep remains a serious concern - if you boost some armies via the Codex and not all - its an issue.
Stevefamine wrote: I'd prefer no codexs - as the Tyranid one is pretty fleshed out but I understand it for chapter specifics. Black Templar and so on
Sorry guy you are getting a new codex with unique hive fleet special rules and stratagems
arent a lot of different hive fleets fairly diverse. like some that use a lot more heavies or gaunts depending on what they fight in a specific region?
Stevefamine wrote: I'd prefer no codexs - as the Tyranid one is pretty fleshed out but I understand it for chapter specifics. Black Templar and so on
Sorry guy you are getting a new codex with unique hive fleet special rules and stratagems
I'm not disappointed in that - but I liked the "everyone is starting fresh" that occurred when the index came out.
Well a fresh start is a fresh start. it was only a matter of time till a fleshed out codex popped up.
i would be more upset if like 4 months passed and suddenly we get Supplements supplements supplements again like angles of death, and sentinels of terra for the second time.
Stormonu wrote: Honestly, I'm willing to stick with the indexes for two reasons - primarily, it will be some time before all armies have their own codex (and I still have my old copies for the fluff). Second, if the additions in the codex make it so you can't win with the army without it, GW has failed to keep their game balanced, and I want no part of that. Ideally, the codex should fix any issues with unit costing or add "fun", but not unbalanced, options. If its a case of modifying unit costs or rules, I would hope those changes would also be updated in FAQs/Errata for the indexes - if they're not, I feel completely justified "X'ing out the costs in the back of my book and writing it in either from an army builder app or copying it from looking at a friend's copy.
I avoided buying the GW indexes as I just knew the codexes would be out very quickly. I bought the FW indexes as I know those will update considerably slower. I'm surprised anybody is surprised this is happening, GW have to release new models and new books on an ongoing basis.
For the most part it's not surprise for any other reason than how quickly they're replacing the indexes.
Stevefamine wrote: I'd prefer no codexs - as the Tyranid one is pretty fleshed out but I understand it for chapter specifics. Black Templar and so on
Sorry guy you are getting a new codex with unique hive fleet special rules and stratagems
arent a lot of different hive fleets fairly diverse. like some that use a lot more heavies or gaunts depending on what they fight in a specific region?
The last Tyranid codex was utter trash, so it hasn't exactly spurred me to want a repeat. IF, however, there is a small chance that if it's somehow impressive, it might be the only one I pick up - but it'd have to be pretty crazy good in a non-unbalancing way.
As for fleet diverisity, I don't remember certain fleets being particularly heavy in one unit or another. Specific mutations (which are gone), maybe. But unit tailoring? That sounds too Eldary/IG/SM for my taste anyways. I'd be more receptive to adaptive strategems that would allow the Tyranid player to alter his army on the fly (maybe from a sideboard reserve) or favor certain biomorph synergies than to simply change around slots.
The Hive Fleets were absolutely different. A lot of it has been retconned at this point to include more stuff because of the changes to the model lines since the inception, but to paint in broad strokes: Behemoth was traditional Gaunts and Synapse beasts footslogging across worlds like a tidal wave, Kraken was the underground horrors with a heavy emphasis on disrupting enemy positions before the main strike and Leviathan emphasized flyers like Shrikes, Flyrants and Harridans.
Stormonu wrote: Honestly, I'm willing to stick with the indexes for two reasons - primarily, it will be some time before all armies have their own codex (and I still have my old copies for the fluff). Second, if the additions in the codex make it so you can't win with the army without it, GW has failed to keep their game balanced, and I want no part of that. Ideally, the codex should fix any issues with unit costing or add "fun", but not unbalanced, options. If its a case of modifying unit costs or rules, I would hope those changes would also be updated in FAQs/Errata for the indexes - if they're not, I feel completely justified "X'ing out the costs in the back of my book and writing it in either from an army builder app or copying it from looking at a friend's copy.
I avoided buying the GW indexes as I just knew the codexes would be out very quickly. I bought the FW indexes as I know those will update considerably slower. I'm surprised anybody is surprised this is happening, GW have to release new models and new books on an ongoing basis.
For the most part it's not surprise for any other reason than how quickly they're replacing the indexes.
I do genuinely find that surprising as for the last couple of years GW have released new products every week. It is very rare that the models for an established gaming system (not a boxed game) are not backed with a book of some sort for GW. As GW needs to make money I couldn't and can't see this model changing. The indexes would only have stayed valid for longer if GW had added rules for models not yet out, but it is even rarer these days for GW to publish rules for something that doesn't have a model...
Rules for the models will be included in the box, with the model, so that's really not much of an issue any more.
What I am most suprised is that GW let it loose pretty early what the first 4 codexes were, and then has been tight lipped about any of them beyond that.
I'm really looking forward to the Xenos codexes in 8th, as I have high hopes they will finally have chapter tactics like abilities, the new strateems, and relics.
Playing Tyranids with 12 Command Points, I've been ending games with CP left over, while my Space Marine opponents can do all kinds of nifty stuff with theirs. Practically salivating over chapter tactics like -1 to be hit over 12", or re-roll charges.
Please, no more of this. Ork shooting gets reduced 50% against these units. Not much fun for your opponent to snap shoot just to shoot!
I feel your pain, as I have more Orks than anyone should legally be allowed to have, but I gave up on them shooting anything effectively a long time ago.
My Tyranids on the other hand have been getting blasted by a plethora of 2+ and 3+ to hit from my opponents lately and a 16% reduction, would be amazing.
On the plus side, Ork Clan Tactics would be sweet !! Maybe I'm just old, but I remember when the Ork Clans actually had some differences, and could actually shoot.
Please let the Blood Axes get +1 to hit !!!
adamsouza wrote: What I am most suprised is that GW let it loose pretty early what the first 4 codexes were, and then has been tight lipped about any of them beyond that.
GW aren't as predictable as they used to be, but being open about these four codices makes sense. We know Marines and Death Guard are coming because they are the starter set armies.
The books wedged in between are a totally unremarkable release because there are no accompanying miniatures, so there's no point in nor enough material for building up excitement.
That said, I believe GW at least hinted at Adeptus Mechanicus and Imperial Guard being among the first ten codices, so it's not complete radio silence (if I remember correctly, that is).
After the grey knight will be death guard, but what about then?
In the last sentence of that warhammer-community article they say:
"soon you’ll have your own tricks and ploys to play, and unique rules for your Traitor Legion, Astra Militarum Regiment or Forge World of choice".
The Death Guard will be available soon, though they still haven´t announced a release date.
Does that in any way mean that among the first 10 codices there are also Thousand Sons, Astra Militarum and Adeptus Mechanicus?
Although in their various articles about codices they have also talked about Aeldari Craftworlds and Necron Dynasties.
What i haven´t found are articles mentioning codices for Tau, Orks, Tyranids and all those i forget to mention here. Does that mean they are on the far edge?
To be honest those 3 are more of major faction than any special CSM Legion or SM Chapter and imho they deserve an own codex earlier.
I fear the remaining 6 can be also very Power Armor-heavy as there are still a lot without a codex:
Thousand Sons
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
adding
Astra Militarum and
Adeptus Mechanicus
Though that would mean no Xenos among the 10!?. I really can´t see it happen.
Especially Orks, Aeldari, Tau and Tyranids seem to be too common to be on the far edge.
So my weak guess based on the articles is:
5. Aeldari Craftworlds
6. Necron Dynasties
7. Thousand Sons
8. Adeptus Mechanicus
9. Astra Militarum
10. Space Wolves (for snow at christmas)
I think they will continue the pattern of forces of the imperium alternating with the enemies of Mankind.
I also think they will save the special flavors of Space Marines until next year, partly not to invalidate most of index 1 so soon, and partly to get all the BA, DA, and SW players to buy the main Space Marine codex while waiting for their proper codexes to drop.
Astra Militarum and Adeptus Mechanicus are top contenders for new codexes without new models.
Also wager that since Eldar were so popular on the tournament seen last edition that they will be the last xenos codex out this edition. It gives all those Eldar players time to be enticed into playing different armies, and enough time to forget about how uber they were when the new Dex drops.
So my guesses
Astra Militarum
Orks
Adeptus Mechanicus
Necrons
They've show a lot of Primaris Deathwatch artwork lately, they'll probably be in one of the modeless book release slots. I'd guess Thousand Sons is in the same boat.
We do know that Custodes/Sisters of Silence aren't going to be getting a book anytime soon, what with the free booklet, so neither they nor Imperial Agents in general will probably be released.
We don't have a lot of good Warhammer Community mystery photo info to have an idea of what's getting new models.
One of the WarCom articles mentioned Guard and Ad Mech by name as coming soon (firefox1 has the link and quote above).
So I figure those two are a given. Probably Deathwatch given the number of primaris units that are being jammed in there. To round out, probably DA, BA and TS.
I can easily see them completely neglecting Xenos. And given the pace of things, another reason to neglect Xenos is so many Xenos armies need model releases to fill out and/or replace finecast still. They can't do the quick and dirty lack of support they've given GK or Chaos.
With the other marines, guard and AdMech they absolutely can. (Though they shouldn't for AdMech).
vipoid wrote: Any idea how they'll do stuff like Ynnari or Harlequins? Even combined it doesn't seem like there's enough stuff to warrant a full codex for them.
They could crow bar in aload of new stuff to justify the stand alone codex - See Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Dark Angels - or go down the Kinghts and Ad MEch initial realease Codex and not bother doing very much at all.
So just relese the Ynnari codex with the three characters and the data sheets for all relevant Eldar units.
Harelquins could go down the route of "clown" class Wraith Kinghts etc.
Yes, Astra Militarum and AdMech according to that WarCom hint. We had rumors from Atia a while ago, the latter may get new models in the future but this was way before 8th.
And it sounds like Orks, Necs and Dark Eldar after December:
Warhammer-Community on Chapter Approved
Since Warhammer 40,000: Dark Imperium was launched, we have released several codexes, but there are still plenty of Factions – Orks, Drukhari, Necrons etc. – that don’t yet have a codex of their own. Chapter Approved gives these players a sneak peek of what many of these factions can expect when their codex is released (we are hard on work to get that done as quickly as we can), but one of the things we wanted to do was give everyone access to ‘objective secured’ right away:
Gamgee wrote: How much you want to bet the Dark Eldar won't get models even though they desperately need them.
How do you figure? Plastic versions of some of our existing models (incubi, mandrakes, grots) would be nice, but other than that I thought we had one of the most up to date, prettiest model ranges in the game.
(Or did you mean we need new models and new units to go with them, like how the Imperium keeps getting new candy every week? Cuz I can get behind that.)
((And EITHER way I'm not taking that bet because it's a sure win for you...))
If every "faction" gets ObjSec, what is the downside to playing "imperium master mix" exactly?
We *think* they meant it only applies to those sub factions where you choose a value, <faction> representing <legion> or <chapter>, but thats just speculative, as it is worded now could mean any faction.
It amazes me gw can't even manage something as simple as keywords tbh.
Grimgold wrote: They had to toss troops a bone otherwise they would never sell another box.
My point (admittedly not clear due to brevity) was that spamming the rule to all troops (like in previous editions) would have been better as a general rule if they were planning on giving it to every battleforged force instead of drip feeding it out will they/won't they in codex books over 6 months potentially. I don't have a problem with the rule itself but GW design team's "bespoke" fetish.
Grimgold wrote: They had to toss troops a bone otherwise they would never sell another box.
My point (admittedly not clear due to brevity) was that spamming the rule to all troops (like in previous editions) would have been better as a general rule if they were planning on giving it to every battleforged force instead of drip feeding it out will they/won't they in codex books over 6 months potentially. I don't have a problem with the rule itself but GW design team's "bespoke" fetish.
I don't have any trouble with Bespoke, only as you suggest that some armies get Bespoken and others get BeShutUp for 12 months.
TbhGW might only be giving the ObSec-like rule only to armies that tend to have more elite Troops, so armies like Guard, Daemons & Orks might not get it?
I don't have any trouble with Bespoke, only as you suggest that some armies get Bespoken and others get BeShutUp for 12 months.
I don't have a problem with bespoke rules but I do think they have their uses as well as limitations. Something was apparently is going to apply the same way to every unit in a basic category in the most common army comp type is better suited IMO to be a general rule. For instance, if they were going to make different versions of deep strike that vary in effectiveness (distance from the enemy, addendums regarding shooting/charging, etc) then that IMO would be suited to the "bespoke" category instead of having a general rule like in 3rd-7th and then an additional unit rule on top of that. YMMV.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: TbhGW might only be giving the ObSec-like rule only to armies that tend to have more elite Troops, so armies like Guard, Daemons & Orks might not get it?
But then CSMs have Cultists so what do I know.
Just saw the Warhammer Comm article and I was completely wrong
Gamgee wrote: No xenos models makes Gamgee a dull dull modeller.
How much you want to bet the Dark Eldar won't get models even though they desperately need them.
I´d say new model are bound to a new codex. I might be wrong but the last time i´ve read about drukhari was in the gathering storm series.
So i guess Drukhari are on the far end (=late 2018).
BrianDavion wrote: it might also be that the objective secured thing was sort of a last minute ".. the additional CPs aren't eneugh incentive for troops" situation
Mhh i think we have 2 kinds of troop types. The first is already taken even without obj. sec. and for the second i´m not sure if that makes them tasty enough to get taken.
Death Guard is the next. As of the alternating between loyalists and traitors and that everything now is on SM vs. CSM another SM codex is likely, it might be Space Wolves followed by Thousand Sons.
Then all traitor legions are done and we could see some non (C)SM-Codices. Hoping for Admech with some new units prior to AM.
Death Guard is the next. As of the alternating between loyalists and traitors and that everything now is on SM vs. CSM another SM codex is likely, it might be Space Wolves followed by Thousand Sons.
Then all traitor legions are done and we could see some non (C)SM-Codices. Hoping for Admech with some new units prior to AM.
You know, or a Xenos Codex. The game actually has Factions other than IoM and Chaos.
Warhammer community has mentioned Astra militarum and Admech twice now when discussing upcoming codices, so it's safe to assume they are coming after DG.
They really weren't kidding about this year focusing on imperium vs chaos.
SilverAlien wrote: Warhammer community has mentioned Astra militarum and Admech twice now when discussing upcoming codices, so it's safe to assume they are coming after DG.
They really weren't kidding about this year focusing on imperium vs chaos.
Necrons have cropped up a couple of times both in the example for the troops rule as above, but also when they first announced the first 4 books.
They also need little to no models for a release so I can see them following up admech maybe.
To my eyes the IG list in the indexes is a mess, with too many sub types and factions, so tidying it into a codex would be good.
Kriswall wrote:You know, or a Xenos Codex. The game actually has Factions other than IoM and Chaos.
Not voting against Xeno codices, i would prefer those way above any sub-facton SM or CSM codex, but i´m just not expecting them.
Though i think the first xeno codices will be for Aeldari and Necrons.
SilverAlien wrote:Warhammer community has mentioned Astra militarum and Admech twice now when discussing upcoming codices, so it's safe to assume they are coming after DG.
They really weren't kidding about this year focusing on imperium vs chaos.
I do expect AdMech and AM to be 2 of the 10 and see AdMech prior to AM with some new models (e. g. legio cybernetica doesn´t consists only of Kastellans).
I hardly can see new models for AM as their ain´t really a type missing.
BoomWolf wrote: IIRC Thousand Sons are supposed to be somewhere in the 5-8th codex slots.
Its as bad as I thought - 5+ Marine Codex's in the first 8.
Rumours I heard ages ago were that it was Marine heavy and then the Xenos coming in last and into early next year. Which does make some sense when you consider that Marines make up an obscene amount of GW sales and collectors. It's not devaluing other factions either as we still have the Xeno books and such to play with. A far cry from the recent past when you had to wait, sometimes years and sometime never got a new codex for a new edition. And during that whole waiting time you had to use the last versions edition.
TS and SW seem like they could be another book + cards only release together, like gk and csm are coming. Say one or two more codices with actual model ranges, interspersed with pairs of book only ones.
I'm actually happy Tyranids are a way aways gives time and hope that they'll give us two new kits - Bio/Pyro vore duel plastic and Death leaper/Lictor duel plastic. Expect them to be like the rest so 3 man boxed sets. That also strips Tyranids of all Finecast barring the Red Terror who'd be icing on the cake if we get a new model for the Terror!
yea... I really hope that if dark eldar are one of the last that we better have some new units and/or get our Special characters back like vect, lady malys, the duke etc.. It would be pretty criminal for them to make us wait so long only to just really give us a couple of stratagems here and there.
Luthon1234 wrote: yea... I really hope that if dark eldar are one of the last that we better have some new units and/or get our Special characters back like vect, lady malys, the duke etc.. It would be pretty criminal for them to make us wait so long only to just really give us a couple of stratagems here and there.
Agreed. Dark Eldar need something big in plastic to compete against the other Lords of War anyway, and Vect could fit the bill
Oh--and it was wrong.
It should have immediately been clear to people that this was wrong seeing as how it had Space Marines releasing on a Thursday but since we need more wrongness...
CSM+GK release on Saturday, August 12th.
That's 2 wrongs, and the person even had the audacity to post it on Friday the 21st--Codex: Space Marines went up for preorder on 7/22...and we even had this WH Community article on July 16th telling you that on July 22nd it would be up for preorder.
warboss wrote: If that's true, I have to say I'm surprised. I'd have thought space wolves would be a definite for the first ten especially over the GK.
Maybe they figure the recent book series makes up for the lack of a SW release? Just a guess.
Oh--and it was wrong.
It should have immediately been clear to people that this was wrong seeing as how it had Space Marines releasing on a Thursday but since we need more wrongness...
CSM+GK release on Saturday, August 12th.
That's 2 wrongs, and the person even had the audacity to post it on Friday the 21st--Codex: Space Marines went up for preorder on 7/22...and we even had this WH Community article on July 16th telling you that on July 22nd it would be up for preorder.
Then, GW or Apple, depending on where it occurred, had the wrong dates on iBooks for the CSM pre-order, so to dismiss the whole thing based on some slightly incorrect info may not be the the smartest idea either. I mean, to have the SM book release on a Thursday is a really stupid thing to do if you're just making dates up and know that Saturday is release day, to the point that some error may actually be more likely.
I suspect that each of Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Dark Angels will be released with just a Primaris upgrade sprue, and will therefore be paired off with someone else. I know they're due new characters, but I reckon they'll come out with future campaign supplements. That's just a hunch, mind you.
If that release schedule is correct, it will probably mean that neither T'au or AM get much in the way of new minis, which would be disappointing. I'm foolishly waiting for plastic Steel Legion
MajorWesJanson wrote: TS and SW seem like they could be another book + cards only release together, like gk and csm are coming. Say one or two more codices with actual model ranges, interspersed with pairs of book only ones.
Actually, I think TS are supposed to have a few more models on the way.
If you compare the size of the DG release to the TS release, the DG is far, far bigger-and justifiyable as a stand-alone codex.
Thousand sons, as long as their unique unit count is so low, do not justify a stand-alone codex too much.
Overread wrote: I'm actually happy Tyranids are a way aways gives time and hope that they'll give us two new kits - Bio/Pyro vore duel plastic and Death leaper/Lictor duel plastic. Expect them to be like the rest so 3 man boxed sets. That also strips Tyranids of all Finecast barring the Red Terror who'd be icing on the cake if we get a new model for the Terror!
New Ravenor kit with optional Red Terror upgrade would be great.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overread wrote: I'm actually happy Tyranids are a way aways gives time and hope that they'll give us two new kits - Bio/Pyro vore duel plastic and Death leaper/Lictor duel plastic. Expect them to be like the rest so 3 man boxed sets. That also strips Tyranids of all Finecast barring the Red Terror who'd be icing on the cake if we get a new model for the Terror!
New Ravenor kit with optional Red Terror upgrade would be great.
MajorWesJanson wrote: TS and SW seem like they could be another book + cards only release together, like gk and csm are coming. Say one or two more codices with actual model ranges, interspersed with pairs of book only ones.
Actually, I think TS are supposed to have a few more models on the way.
If you compare the size of the DG release to the TS release, the DG is far, far bigger-and justifiyable as a stand-alone codex.
Thousand sons, as long as their unique unit count is so low, do not justify a stand-alone codex too much.
Honestly, this is what scares me.
TS have 5 unique options. If we dont see more releases im confident the codex will be a joke.
Oh--and it was wrong.
It should have immediately been clear to people that this was wrong seeing as how it had Space Marines releasing on a Thursday but since we need more wrongness...
CSM+GK release on Saturday, August 12th.
That's 2 wrongs, and the person even had the audacity to post it on Friday the 21st--Codex: Space Marines went up for preorder on 7/22...and we even had this WH Community article on July 16th telling you that on July 22nd it would be up for preorder.
Then, GW or Apple, depending on where it occurred, had the wrong dates on iBooks for the CSM pre-order, so to dismiss the whole thing based on some slightly incorrect info may not be the the smartest idea either. I mean, to have the SM book release on a Thursday is a really stupid thing to do if you're just making dates up and know that Saturday is release day, to the point that some error may actually be more likely.
I actually had the Thursday wrong--so that date was correct--but by the time that post was made on 4chan(Friday July 21st at 1:52pm)--we knew that Space Marines were coming up for preorder the very next day(July 22nd) and thus would be releasing the next Saturday.
We also knew(from the articles posted by GW on the Community page) that CSM+GK were next, with them being mentioned as coming together--and that Death Guard would be "arriving after that".
But the simple fact that they have things listed as August 19th for CSM+GK tells us that it's someone who was going off other people's rumors and then throwing their own into the mix.
MajorWesJanson wrote: TS and SW seem like they could be another book + cards only release together, like gk and csm are coming. Say one or two more codices with actual model ranges, interspersed with pairs of book only ones.
Actually, I think TS are supposed to have a few more models on the way.
If you compare the size of the DG release to the TS release, the DG is far, far bigger-and justifiyable as a stand-alone codex.
Thousand sons, as long as their unique unit count is so low, do not justify a stand-alone codex too much.
The TS release isn't that small is it? Currently we have (TS on the left, DG on the right):
Rubric Marines - Plague Marines
Scarab Occult Terminators - (potential) Deathshroud Terminators
Tzaangors - Poxwalkers
Magnus the Red - Mortarion
Ahriman - (Potential) Typhus
Exalted Sorcerors/Sorcerors on Discs - Lord of Contagion/Malignant Poxcaster/Blightcaster
Granted, DG has three very different characters compared to TS's (basically) one character in different flavours, but release-wise it's still roughly the same. The only thing DG has on TS are the two vehicles; the Bloat Drone and (Potential) Plague Crawler (the Beast of Nurgle thingy might be a Daemon thing instead, and if we're counting that the TS also got everything Tzeentch related in their release too).
You can add the Tallyman to the list of Death Guard HQ's, or possibly an Elite (because if you had shown me what the Noxious Blightbringer does without telling me his FO slot I would have bet money on him being an HQ...). There might be even more stuff that hasn't been unveiled yet since we're pretty sparse on information.
I think the Thousand Sons will probably get stuff ported over from other games. Some of the other Age of Sigmar Tzaangors and the Osiron Contemptor would flesh things out enough for Thousand Sons to be an army unto its own right.
Arachnofiend wrote: You can add the Tallyman to the list of Death Guard HQ's, or possibly an Elite (because if you had shown me what the Noxious Blightbringer does without telling me his FO slot I would have bet money on him being an HQ...). There might be even more stuff that hasn't been unveiled yet since we're pretty sparse on information.
I think the Thousand Sons will probably get stuff ported over from other games. Some of the other Age of Sigmar Tzaangors and the Osiron Contemptor would flesh things out enough for Thousand Sons to be an army unto its own right.
It would be easy for them to port the Vortex Mutalith beast thing from Fantasy into 40K as a massive tzeentch spawn critter. But not all codices are going to be the same size/ include the same number/equivalences of units. Thousand Sons vs Codex CSM is more like Codex GK vs Codex SM, while Death Guard could be more like the Dark Angels book in terms of more overall content and more options.
one thing about 1k Sons is they also kept stuff the death guard lost.
1k sons have lost access too:
Chaos Space Marines/Chosen
Havocs
Chaos Lords,
Dark Apostles
Warp Smith
Possesed
Chaos Terminators
so really once you look at what they lost from the chaos space marine codex the only obvious thing they lost are a lot of the HQs, I could see thus a small scale release with some new special HQ units for the 1k sons, I could also just see 1K sons being given multiple power tres to try and make it os there is more varity in what their sorcs can do. so while a space marine army might have a captain a lt, a chaplain and a libby, 1k sons might have 3 or 4 differant sorcs can be able to use them as buff machines offensive machines etc, with suprising flexability.
Meanwhile when you look at the death guard what they lost becomes a lot more apparent,
They've lost access to all the new deamon engines, as well as vindicators, hence they need a nech vehicle much more then 1k sons.
so yeah I expect the 1k son release if they get one will be pretty small and likely will be simply a few differant varities of HQ.
Well the DG index release didn't have Terminators, but obviously they are getting Terminators of some variety, so it's likely that the index versions are going to be changed up. The only real things we can go by are the releases.
Also I would not count T-sons as having lost Chaos Terminators because the Scarab Occult Terminators are basically unique to them if I recall.
Another thing about the TS releases is that they were combined with Tzeentch Daemons. In the same release they got a new Changling, the Lord of Change, and Brimstone/Blue Horrors. But obviously those are Chaos Daemons units so I didn't count them.
One thing I suspect might happen is that T-Sons will get a squad of sorcerors, which can make the Exalted Sorcerors box pull double duty. Alternatively, they get the Tzaangor casters from AoS. As for DG, I'm kinda expecting the Terminators to come in two flavours (normal with blight launcher upgrade and the Deathshroud CC terminators) while the DG boxset will also pull double duty as normal Plague Marines and Death Guard Havocs.
Kanluwen wrote: I actually had the Thursday wrong--so that date was correct--but by the time that post was made on 4chan(Friday July 21st at 1:52pm)--we knew that Space Marines were coming up for preorder the very next day(July 22nd) and thus would be releasing the next Saturday.
We also knew(from the articles posted by GW on the Community page) that CSM+GK were next, with them being mentioned as coming together--and that Death Guard would be "arriving after that".
But the simple fact that they have things listed as August 19th for CSM+GK tells us that it's someone who was going off other people's rumors and then throwing their own into the mix.
As an aside, this is what I have listed for this one:
PENDING Release Schedule Rumors - August 2017
SM - July 29th ALREADY TRUE CSM + GK - August 19th FALSE DG - September 23rd
Tau and AM - October 7th
Tyranid and BA - November 11th
Necrons and TS - December 9th
4chan is like 95% false in the tracker. And yes, I know 4chan is an amalgamation.
MajorWesJanson wrote: TS and SW seem like they could be another book + cards only release together, like gk and csm are coming. Say one or two more codices with actual model ranges, interspersed with pairs of book only ones.
Actually, I think TS are supposed to have a few more models on the way.
If you compare the size of the DG release to the TS release, the DG is far, far bigger-and justifiyable as a stand-alone codex.
Thousand sons, as long as their unique unit count is so low, do not justify a stand-alone codex too much.
The TS release isn't that small is it? Currently we have (TS on the left, DG on the right):
Rubric Marines - Plague Marines
Scarab Occult Terminators - (potential) Deathshroud Terminators
Tzaangors - Poxwalkers
Magnus the Red - Mortarion
Ahriman - (Potential) Typhus
Exalted Sorcerors/Sorcerors on Discs - Lord of Contagion/Malignant Poxcaster/Blightcaster
Granted, DG has three very different characters compared to TS's (basically) one character in different flavours, but release-wise it's still roughly the same. The only thing DG has on TS are the two vehicles; the Bloat Drone and (Potential) Plague Crawler (the Beast of Nurgle thingy might be a Daemon thing instead, and if we're counting that the TS also got everything Tzeentch related in their release too).
I think there are a few easy adds that could flesh out the Thousand Sons a little more. The Osiron Contemptor is an easy one, as are the Tzaangor options from Age of Sigmar (a straight port with no real remodeling required). Plastic sprues that give you the option to turn Rubric Marines into something similar to the old Khenetai or Ammitara Thousand Sons would also be welcome, and probably not that hard to make.
More than anything, though, I think the Sons will benefit from new rules and options. My biggest suggestion would be giving them a way to circumvent the Rule of One in matched play, so that (for example) different psykers can use Prescience in the same psychic phase. Maybe it's a stratagem or something if there's a concern about abuse (it certainly wouldn't make sense for it to be the legion-wide rule, since it would be useless in narrative and open play). But part of the theory behind the Sons has always been that they so utterly dominate the psychic phase that their army can afford to be smaller and have less "normal" options than other legions. Having most of the psykers in our army effectively be Smite-hurlers (and gimped Smite-hurlers at that with respect to Aspiring Sorcerers) feels a little weak and limiting to me. Putting in rules representing the five ancient Prosperine Cult Arcana would also be a nice way to boost our versatility without having to create new models.
And for God's sake, make Magnus immune to Perils again! He has a hard-enough time surviving while being the enormous red un-hideable target he is!
Assuming an alternating release order between loyalists and traitors, we must be a loyalist release between Death Guard and Thounsand Sons.
My best guess are Space Wolves as they have a little "history" with them. They would also have a full model range available, so GW could make money with each unit in the codex.
Firefox1 wrote: Assuming an alternating release order between loyalists and traitors, we must be a loyalist release between Death Guard and Thounsand Sons.
My best guess are Space Wolves as they have a little "history" with them. They would also have a full model range available, so GW could make money with each unit in the codex.
Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels could all get away with a book + cards release, though all could use some characters shifted into plastic. I'd go with Wolves for the tie-in to Thousand Sons, while Dark Angels could be part of a plot event with Cypher (getting a lone release) and the return of the Lion (loyalist Primarch kit).
Firefox1 wrote: Assuming an alternating release order between loyalists and traitors, we must be a loyalist release between Death Guard and Thounsand Sons.
My best guess are Space Wolves as they have a little "history" with them. They would also have a full model range available, so GW could make money with each unit in the codex.
Wolves, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels could all get away with a book + cards release, though all could use some characters shifted into plastic. I'd go with Wolves for the tie-in to Thousand Sons, while Dark Angels could be part of a plot event with Cypher (getting a lone release) and the return of the Lion (loyalist Primarch kit).
I wouldn't be surprised to see each of the variant chapters released alongside a generic Primaris kit or two(with a PDF on the GW site so they can be used by all) and a chapter upgrade sprue.
Have we gotten a reason for why the DG codex is coming out so late? It feels like GW has been shilling it pretty much since the announcement of 8th edition.
Got to pump those primaris up first. New Marines and all...
Now that they've pretty much gotten done with that DG should follow soon after. I agree that they've left it too long though. It's more frustrating than exciting when you are wanting CSM/DG stuff, and all you see is a sea of marine kits, as usual...
I wonder actually, could it be possible for the Thousand Sons release to include a Start Collecting box? Most of the other armies with their own dedicated codexes have one at this point.
Arachnofiend wrote: I wonder actually, could it be possible for the Thousand Sons release to include a Start Collecting box? Most of the other armies with their own dedicated codexes have one at this point.
Maybe, they certainly should get one as in many ways they're MORE distinct from chaos then say space wovles are from vanilla marines, I can, for example, buy a space marine start collecting box and use that for space wolves, 1K sons however their basic basic troops are distinct from the standard chaos stuff and CANNOT actually make a force from the chaos start collecting set
BlaxicanX wrote:Have we gotten a reason for why the DG codex is coming out so late? It feels like GW has been shilling it pretty much since the announcement of 8th edition.
Maybe problems with the casting of Mortarion? Just kidding and don´t know but wondering also.
Arachnofiend wrote:I wonder actually, could it be possible for the Thousand Sons release to include a Start Collecting box? Most of the other armies with their own dedicated codexes have one at this point.
I guess that there will be such a box for every codex.
Some boxes are already hard to get, so it seems they do some rework on them.
BlaxicanX wrote:Have we gotten a reason for why the DG codex is coming out so late? It feels like GW has been shilling it pretty much since the announcement of 8th edition.
Maybe problems with the casting of Mortarion? Just kidding and don´t know but wondering also.
It doesn't strike me as massively different from GW's normal release strategy. The template you can apply:
New edition is released. A month later, the big faction in the starter set gets a codex. Then there's a release for the other game system. Then the codex for the other starter set faction is released.
What's so different about that now?
Dark Imperium was released in mid June. GW has since learned it's a good idea to release smaller starter sets as well, which causes a slight delay for the Marine codex. There's also a wave of start collecting boxes, which adds another week
This is followed by the Marine codex and around three weeks of model releases for the codex, which is standard.
They fit in Grey Knights and Chaos Marines as book only releases. Adds a week before the Death Guard release. Then basing kits and stuff. Another week. Then, presumably, the combo kits for Age of Sigmar and the General's Handbook, which is another week.
After that we'll get Death Guard for several weeks.
That's a lot of tiny little holdups that of course add up. But aside from the two extra codices, that's about what a full release for Age of Sigmar would take up if they did a Battletome instead of random stuff. We'll still see Death Guard within two and a half months after the starter set, which is hardly a long time. It just feels that way because they teased Nurgle stuff so early and then the endless starter set and Primaris releases happened.
BlaxicanX wrote:Have we gotten a reason for why the DG codex is coming out so late? It feels like GW has been shilling it pretty much since the announcement of 8th edition.
Maybe problems with the casting of Mortarion? Just kidding and don´t know but wondering also.
It doesn't strike me as massively different from GW's normal release strategy. The template you can apply:
New edition is released. A month later, the big faction in the starter set gets a codex. Then there's a release for the other game system. Then the codex for the other starter set faction is released.
What's so different about that now?
Dark Imperium was released in mid June. GW has since learned it's a good idea to release smaller starter sets as well, which causes a slight delay for the Marine codex. There's also a wave of start collecting boxes, which adds another week
This is followed by the Marine codex and around three weeks of model releases for the codex, which is standard.
They fit in Grey Knights and Chaos Marines as book only releases. Adds a week before the Death Guard release. Then basing kits and stuff. Another week. Then, presumably, the combo kits for Age of Sigmar and the General's Handbook, which is another week.
After that we'll get Death Guard for several weeks.
That's a lot of tiny little holdups that of course add up. But aside from the two extra codices, that's about what a full release for Age of Sigmar would take up if they did a Battletome instead of random stuff. We'll still see Death Guard within two and a half months after the starter set, which is hardly a long time. It just feels that way because they teased Nurgle stuff so early and then the endless starter set and Primaris releases happened.
There are no hold-ups, 8th was released at the start of Q2- starter set, indexes, easy build models in the following months. Marine release was Q3 followed by units, some sigmar, smaller codex releases in the following months. DG will be released Q4 in order to finish the year off strong. Then expect the next major release at the start of 2018.
Nice and simple, its all about creating a strong financial year to show investors. No hold-ups, just business strategy.
Geifer wrote: They fit in Grey Knights and Chaos Marines as book only releases.
Very minor correction: they managed to separate Voldus from the Triad kit with Gulliman.
Some new codex comments:
Grey Knights:
I am somewhat surprised some of the evil stuff they did in the GK codex.
Dakka-Dread (Auto-cannon) is not an option, they were all the rage when you could upgrade their ammo (luckily I use magnets...).
Including a couple more flyers seems OK, very little change though.
Funny how they made into psychic powers, abilities units just plain had in prior editions.
It gives some chance at cancelling out some of what they do.
I imagine with Eldar or CSM Thousand Sons could get quite exciting with these guys.
Chaos:
I am oddly, "happy" with the Chaos Codex and being able to do things like summon daemons and stuff.
It has a great deal of variety and a good means of mixing in cult units into armies like the Black Legion.
Even obliterators are interesting how they chose for them to work.
I cry foul on the Iron Warriors getting their own army ability that is an exact match of a different name with the Imperial Fists (makes sense though).
They even included Cypher and his Forsaken friends, I may have to dust off my robed DA miniatures with the CSM backpacks.
A nod of the head to Fabius Bile's interest in the Primaris marines is an obvious but still welcome bit to read.
GK, CSM in regard to the SM codex:
They have kept quite consistent with the stats of shared equipment that is pretty much the same.
Where I notice the biggest difference is the options you can take to add to the vehicles.
Again, there is some rather strong effort for balance at work as best I can see.
Overall impression: Everything is still "making sense" to me and it is both very pleasant and concerning at the same time: to not see anything that looks OP.
I think I still have to go through the various command point rules.
I can see how some people can say these can lack "flavor", I think what they really mean is controversy.
I think this game is even more the "simulator" for all the fluff we read of the 40k universe (reasonable variety of units and composition) and gives some interesting challenges from a competitive viewpoint.
I think the ONLY item out of all of these releases (other than wallet pain) I have is the Primaris Marine future of being a possible replacement for the current size marines.
I expect that may not be an issue for at least another addition change due to all the "original" marine plastic molds out there.
I hate to say, I may be back to buying all the codex's that come out like I used to do from 5th edition and earlier.
BlaxicanX wrote:Have we gotten a reason for why the DG codex is coming out so late? It feels like GW has been shilling it pretty much since the announcement of 8th edition.
Maybe problems with the casting of Mortarion? Just kidding and don´t know but wondering also.
It doesn't strike me as massively different from GW's normal release strategy. The template you can apply:
New edition is released. A month later, the big faction in the starter set gets a codex. Then there's a release for the other game system. Then the codex for the other starter set faction is released.
What's so different about that now?
Dark Imperium was released in mid June. GW has since learned it's a good idea to release smaller starter sets as well, which causes a slight delay for the Marine codex. There's also a wave of start collecting boxes, which adds another week
This is followed by the Marine codex and around three weeks of model releases for the codex, which is standard.
They fit in Grey Knights and Chaos Marines as book only releases. Adds a week before the Death Guard release. Then basing kits and stuff. Another week. Then, presumably, the combo kits for Age of Sigmar and the General's Handbook, which is another week.
After that we'll get Death Guard for several weeks.
That's a lot of tiny little holdups that of course add up. But aside from the two extra codices, that's about what a full release for Age of Sigmar would take up if they did a Battletome instead of random stuff. We'll still see Death Guard within two and a half months after the starter set, which is hardly a long time. It just feels that way because they teased Nurgle stuff so early and then the endless starter set and Primaris releases happened.
There are no hold-ups, 8th was released at the start of Q2- starter set, indexes, easy build models in the following months. Marine release was Q3 followed by units, some sigmar, smaller codex releases in the following months. DG will be released Q4 in order to finish the year off strong. Then expect the next major release at the start of 2018.
Nice and simple, its all about creating a strong financial year to show investors. No hold-ups, just business strategy.
When I say holdups, I mean from the perspective of Death Guard fans eagerly awaiting their turn. Obviously GW has a release plan which they follow (unless something goes catastrophically wrong).
There's no reason to believe that Death Guard will be released in Q4, though. They won't wait until October when we know it's the next codex and they want to release six more until Christmas.
Besides, by GW's financial year (which is divided in halfs, not quarters), September starts the second quarter.
Talizvar wrote: Very minor correction: they managed to separate Voldus from the Triad kit with Gulliman.
Thanks. I keep forgetting that he exists.
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Nicorex wrote: Well I for one am not that happy with GW.
Seems now that most of my Chaos army is now illegal, since they are armed with bolters and chainswords.
Yeah, cutting down on weapon choices on Chaos Marines is just poor. Unsurprising but poor.
When I say holdups, I mean from the perspective of Death Guard fans eagerly awaiting their turn. Obviously GW has a release plan which they follow (unless something goes catastrophically wrong).
There's no reason to believe that Death Guard will be released in Q4, though. They won't wait until October when we know it's the next codex and they want to release six more until Christmas.
Besides, by GW's financial year (which is divided in halfs, not quarters), September starts the second quarter.
Ah, that does make sense, ive never looked at how GW organise their finances, it just seemed apparent to me that they followed a trend of major releases every quarter so i assumed DG would be Q4
I doubt we'll see a Thousand Sons getting started box. The Rubric set is more expensive than the CSM set and they haven't made a plastic Chaos HQ other than the Terminator model. So to make it cost about the same as others it would end up having to be a box of Rubrics, a box of Tzaangors, and a Rhino, with the Terminator Lord.
Would GW do that though? People would end up buying only start collecting boxes instead of multiple rubrics or tzaangors which I'm sure they don't want.
I'm really dying to see how they make Thousand Sons viable. I really don't think a new psychic table is going to be enough.
Nvs wrote: I doubt we'll see a Thousand Sons getting started box. The Rubric set is more expensive than the CSM set and they haven't made a plastic Chaos HQ other than the Terminator model. So to make it cost about the same as others it would end up having to be a box of Rubrics, a box of Tzaangors, and a Rhino, with the Terminator Lord.
Would GW do that though? People would end up buying only start collecting boxes instead of multiple rubrics or tzaangors which I'm sure they don't want.
I'm really dying to see how they make Thousand Sons viable. I really don't think a new psychic table is going to be enough.
They could include one of the plastic sorcerers for the HQ.
Nvs wrote: I doubt we'll see a Thousand Sons getting started box. The Rubric set is more expensive than the CSM set and they haven't made a plastic Chaos HQ other than the Terminator model. So to make it cost about the same as others it would end up having to be a box of Rubrics, a box of Tzaangors, and a Rhino, with the Terminator Lord.
Would GW do that though? People would end up buying only start collecting boxes instead of multiple rubrics or tzaangors which I'm sure they don't want.
I'm really dying to see how they make Thousand Sons viable. I really don't think a new psychic table is going to be enough.
They could include one of the plastic sorcerers for the HQ.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: There's no starter box for Grey Knights. I wonder what it would contain if it did exist.
Or Harlies, which is a damn shame.
Missing Getting started so far:
GSC Harlequins
Grey Knights
Then we have the more specialised
Thousand sons
Dark Angels
Haemonculus Cults (if they still want that kind of thing to exist)
Catachans (though hopefully theyd be updated plastics first)
and lastly SOB, because we really want new plastics for them and it'd be a crime against the Emperor to leave them off the list (though obviously doesn't figure into current released plastic armies)
SM and CSM...I'm ready for some Xenos, please. Upsetting to imagine sub-factions being prioritized prior to full armies, but GKs are out so there you have it.
It is a self-fulfilling prophecy to say "They bring in the money". They have always been prioritized. There is a reason they bring in the $$.
Sorry...this has been a sticking point for me for...17 years.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: There's no starter box for Grey Knights. I wonder what it would contain if it did exist.
Hard choice.
It all has to be plastic.
So the only option I see is:
Grey Knights: (They are targeting $100... this is getting awfully close to the upper limit of deal).
Palladin / Terminator squad: $60 (You get basically a Command Squad out of this). OR DreadKnight HQ? $64.50.
Grey Knight strike squad: $70 (Two 5 man squads)
Total: $130 individual cost. (or $134.50 with the Dreadknight option)
Hard to get a good model count or model difference (command, troop, vehicle) with this expensive army.
For comparison:
Getting started Space Marine box = $100 (Prices are individual model listing)
HQ Terminator Captain (Terminator squad = $60, TS + Captain "Terminator Command" = $70) = $10 (??) This guy appears to not be sold on his own.
Tactical Squad: $50
Venerable Dreadnaught: $55.50
Total: $115.50 individual cost.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: There's no starter box for Grey Knights. I wonder what it would contain if it did exist.
Hard choice.
It all has to be plastic.
So the only option I see is:
Grey Knights: (They are targeting $100... this is getting awfully close to the upper limit of deal).
Palladin / Terminator squad: $60 (You get basically a Command Squad out of this). OR DreadKnight HQ? $64.50.
Grey Knight strike squad: $70 (Two 5 man squads)
Total: $130 individual cost. (or $134.50 with the Dreadknight option)
Hard to get a good model count or model difference (command, troop, vehicle) with this expensive army.
For comparison:
Getting started Space Marine box = $100 (Prices are individual model listing)
HQ Terminator Captain (Terminator squad = $60, TS + Captain "Terminator Command" = $70) = $10 (??) This guy appears to not be sold on his own.
Tactical Squad: $50
Venerable Dreadnaught: $55.50
Total: $115.50 individual cost.
About the best I can do.
Given that you can get the Seraphon box for $85 USD and the Carnosaur itself was $85, the new Fyreslayers box is $85 with a Magamdroth(used to be around ~$110ish)...think bigger.
My own personal speculation:
10x Grey Knights Strike Squad models
5x Grey Knights Terminators
1x Dreadknight
Alternatively, they could place the Terminator Captain you're talking about in--but he's sold in a lot of Start Collecting sets and most people who wanted him got him that way or from splitting the Terminator Command sets.
The lack of a single, stand alone TSHQ model suitable for a GS box is a stumbling point, I think. Ahriman is a special character, and the Exalted Sorcerers are a three man box. I suppose the old Terminator Lord/Sorcerer is possible, though unsatisfying.
Aside from that, box composition would determine whether it had any appeal. Rubrics/Tzaangors would not be as useful to me as Rubrics/Scarab Occult, but R/T is more likely. I'm also at the point that further Rubrics and/or Scarab Occult are really only useful to me if I want to expand my squads to full size 20/10.
Start collecting Grey Knights is easy. Just copy Deathwatch. Ten power armored Grey Knights, a Venerable Dreadnought and a terminator armored HQ. Deathwatch has Artemis, which sets a precedent for including a special character, so it could be Voldus. Alternatively, the terminator armored Librarian has been officially featured with a Grey Knight color scheme, unlike the Terminator Captain (to my knowledge). That's the other, generic choice.
shade1313 wrote: The lack of a single, stand alone TSHQ model suitable for a GS box is a stumbling point, I think. Ahriman is a special character, and the Exalted Sorcerers are a three man box. I suppose the old Terminator Lord/Sorcerer is possible, though unsatisfying.
Aside from that, box composition would determine whether it had any appeal. Rubrics/Tzaangors would not be as useful to me as Rubrics/Scarab Occult, but R/T is more likely. I'm also at the point that further Rubrics and/or Scarab Occult are really only useful to me if I want to expand my squads to full size 20/10.
Captain Artemis is a character too, but that didn't stop him from ending up in the DW box
shade1313 wrote: The lack of a single, stand alone TSHQ model suitable for a GS box is a stumbling point, I think. Ahriman is a special character, and the Exalted Sorcerers are a three man box. I suppose the old Terminator Lord/Sorcerer is possible, though unsatisfying.
Aside from that, box composition would determine whether it had any appeal. Rubrics/Tzaangors would not be as useful to me as Rubrics/Scarab Occult, but R/T is more likely. I'm also at the point that further Rubrics and/or Scarab Occult are really only useful to me if I want to expand my squads to full size 20/10.
Captain Artemis is a character too, but that didn't stop him from ending up in the DW box
Conceded, I had all the DW stuff I need, so I never looked at that box, and didn't know that.
I think price is the main problem. The reason Rubric + Tzaangors make sense is because Rubrics are $10 more than CSM and Tzeengors are $10 less than a helbrute or vehicle.
If GW introduced a power armor generic sorcerer (weren't there rumors a long time ago about a Chaos Sorcerer blister coming out with an alternate Thousand Sons helm?) and it was priced below the Terminator Lord perhaps there would be more wiggle room to include scarabs or a rhino etc.
Nvs wrote: I'm really dying to see how they make Thousand Sons viable. I really don't think a new psychic table is going to be enough.
The Chaos Familiar stratagem would help (I'll be shocked if the Sons don't get that option in their codex). A stratagem or relic that lets Thousand Sons psykers break the Rule of One in matched play for powers other than Smite would also be awesome, although probably too much to hope for. It'll also be interesting to see if the cult armies get bonuses for summoning in daemons of their patron Chaos gods.
Kanluwen wrote: Given that you can get the Seraphon box for $85 USD and the Carnosaur itself was $85, the new Fyreslayers box is $85 with a Magamdroth(used to be around ~$110ish)...think bigger.
My own personal speculation:
10x Grey Knights Strike Squad models
5x Grey Knights Terminators
1x Dreadknight
Alternatively, they could place the Terminator Captain you're talking about in--but he's sold in a lot of Start Collecting sets and most people who wanted him got him that way or from splitting the Terminator Command sets.
I think you may have noticed I was waffling between the termies and the dread: you are targeting the same stuff.
I also stated usually a vehicle is included so then it all works out.
About $300 and you can have a pretty good (complete-ish) GK force if that getting started box was put together.
10x Strike Squads, a Librarian, and a Dreadknight/5 Terminators.
In CAD, thats about 60 dollars savings if in a start collector set. So i doubt we will get a Rhino or Razorback on top of it.
I could mayyyybe see 5 strikes, 5 terminators, a terminator librarian and a razorback.
Also, my bets:
Death Guard, Daemons of Chaos (with a heavy Nurgle slant release, plus a Nurgle AoS release), Astra Militarum, Orks, Khorne, Dark Angels, Ynnari, end the year with Slaanesh. Maybe a 1k sons vs Space Wolves splash release like the GK/CSM book.
Next year, Tyranids, Blood Angels, Necrons, Tau, with IKs in there somewhere. Maybe we will see IKs around Christmas as a flash release this year, since i imagine bigger kits sell more around Christmas. Though Christmas is usually terrain...
Khorne and Slaanesh will be tied to the release of the Demonprimarchs and respective Culttroops similar to DG und 1kSons, so they won't be in this year but rather 2018-2019
From one article of the warhammer community, which i can´t find again, it sounds as there will be "only" a codex for death guard and thousand sons, no world eaters nor emperors children.
Personally i would be glad about that, because i really dislike the release of sub-codices prior to main codices.
Firefox1 wrote: From one article of the warhammer community, which i can´t find again, it sounds as there will be "only" a codex for death guard and thousand sons, no world eaters nor emperors children.
Personally i would be glad about that, because i really dislike the release of sub-codices prior to main codices.
For now, sure, but they're obviously going to keep bringing back Primarchs and their Legions. We'll get both an Emperor's Children and a World Eater's codex at some point in the next couple of years. I look forward to the model ranges that will accompany them.
Leo_the_Rat wrote: There's no starter box for Grey Knights. I wonder what it would contain if it did exist.
Or Harlies, which is a damn shame.
Missing Getting started so far:
GSC Harlequins
Grey Knights
Then we have the more specialised
Thousand sons
Dark Angels
Haemonculus Cults (if they still want that kind of thing to exist)
Catachans (though hopefully theyd be updated plastics first)
and lastly SOB, because we really want new plastics for them and it'd be a crime against the Emperor to leave them off the list (though obviously doesn't figure into current released plastic armies)
Technically speaking, DG don't have a "start collecting" box either...technically neither does SoB, but they don't have models as well...
Haemonculus are not a seperate army list from DE.
Catachans and cadians are the same army list.
