Vermonter wrote: The next add-on is up, and it's very . . . creative?
I don't know what to think about this one yet, honestly.
I think the way that the Kabuki gang looks so out of place reinforces just how dull the setting for this game is. Had they gone for more of a cyberpunk, future city setting, they could have featured all kinds of weird and wonderful gangs. As it is, I like what they’re doing, but I don’t love it. I haven’t yet decided if I like it enough to give them any money.
draugadan wrote: I am excited about this one. So far I've liked just about everything... except the first Abomination. That thing is just awful.
The first Abom is pretty awful, but I like a lot of the stretch goals and the Black Ops guys.
I just don't need another Zombicide game. I've got the first 3 seasons and we haven't even touched the third season yet.
I have most of the original Zombicide materials, and a friend has what I am missing (noisy neighbors, and ... one next to it). I am not into Fantasy so much, so I never bought or played the Fantasy Zombicide. So, leaves me room to be excited about this one.
Anyway, I confirmed with CMON that they will be selling the Invader tiles after the KS.
So I can skip this one. Some of the minis are nice, especially the bigger aliens.
I don’t do KS’s any more, RRT helped burn me of that habit.
However, will still consider picking up the game and maybe the Kabuki gang once it hits retail. I did participate in the first few Zombicide KS’s and they were always good value and fun. ITs just KS is a platform I no longer trust nor wish to deal with, no matter how good the product.
However, will still consider picking up the game and maybe the Kabuki gang once it hits retail. I did participate in the first few Zombicide KS’s and they were always good value and fun. ITs just KS is a platform I no longer trust nor wish to deal with, no matter how good the product.
Only issue with that is the Kabuki gang won't be hitting retail.
I'd say of all the companies that play the Kickstarter game, CMON is probably one of the safest ones to deal with at this point. While there's always hiccups and issues, in my own experience CMON has dealt with all that relatively quickly.
However, will still consider picking up the game and maybe the Kabuki gang once it hits retail. I did participate in the first few Zombicide KS’s and they were always good value and fun. ITs just KS is a platform I no longer trust nor wish to deal with, no matter how good the product.
Only issue with that is the Kabuki gang won't be hitting retail.
I'd say of all the companies that play the Kickstarter game, CMON is probably one of the safest ones to deal with at this point. While there's always hiccups and issues, in my own experience CMON has dealt with all that relatively quickly.
Sorry, I would expect I’d have to e-bay the Kabukis. I do agree with CMON being great KS partners. If they had been the only ones I had done KS’s with, I’d still probably be doing KS. Unfortunately, the risk of KS (and their inability to enforce/do anything when things go sideways) isn’t for me and with the general wait anyways (with the obligatory time delays), I’m better off just picking up what I need once it actual is available. Yeah, I miss out on some great items, but again, the platform, for me, is no longer worth the risk.
Sorry to rant, I’ll try to steer clear of the general KS subject in the future.
I think you don't get the appeal of Kickstarter. Kickstarter is like a feeder bar that you can push when you want a treat, but unlike those other, boring feeder bars Kickstarter doesn't always give us a treat. Sometimes nothing happens. And to make it even worse, we have to wait in a period of uncertainty before we find out if the random feeder bar will deliver the treat. The answer isn't to walk away and look for a lesser feeder bar, but to mash this sucker as hard and often as possible to ensure a near-constant if unreliable delivery of treats. That's what makes lab rats happy, and it can work for you, too.
However, with CMON it seems like the random element occurs before you push the feeder bar.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I think you don't get the appeal of Kickstarter. Kickstarter is like a feeder bar that you can push when you want a treat, but unlike those other, boring feeder bars Kickstarter doesn't always give us a treat. Sometimes nothing happens. And to make it even worse, we have to wait in a period of uncertainty before we find out if the random feeder bar will deliver the treat. The answer isn't to walk away and look for a lesser feeder bar, but to mash this sucker as hard and often as possible to ensure a near-constant if unreliable delivery of treats. That's what makes lab rats happy, and it can work for you, too.
However, with CMON it seems like the random element occurs before you push the feeder bar.
LMAO !! A brilliant observation and the laugh I needed this morning !!
Off to push that feeder bar (but not on Zombicide). Core Space PM closes today.
Doors in Zombicide: Invader are not handled the same way as in previous Zombicide games. Since it is your base that's being invaded, initially all doors are open (unless otherwise required by a mission), which means there are no door tokens on the board, only openings on the tiles. Survivors can decide to close a door next to them, placing a Closed Door on an opening. They can also open them again by simply removing the Closed Door. However, when Xenos try to move past a Closed Door, they bust it open and it becomes a Destroyed Door. Such doors are permanently open and cannot be closed again.
Not bad but I have more sci-fi doors from Sedition Wars (3 sets) and Star Saga than I’ll ever need (plus they look better than these IMO) enough even to create a few destroyed ones where necessary.
Should be a good value for new Z players and backers who like the sculpts, but <cynical> seems like they're earlier than BP moving the free SG's from the lower level to the higher one </cynical>.
Myself, I really with the "bug" sculpts were the main ones. Who knows -- maybe the could be in another sf Zombicide...
This KS is all over the place. Brood mother and flyng tentacle thing look like from xenoshyft universe which is a plus, big minus is everything else...pitty, could have been really something design wise.
I think what this Kickstarter really needs right now is a Doomguy or two. They just need to do classic Doomguy wielding his trusty shotgun. Bonus points if they did a Doom Slayer as well.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Well more of this less (or not at all) of everything else and it would be nice.
Same could be said for your posts in this thread.
Here, let me use me as an example for what you could do to improve your posts in this thread:
1. I don't like the Sea Elves GW is putting out, more specifically I find the "flying fish" concept to be really stupid. I said as much in the thread. Then I left the thread.
2. I think that FFG's new SW skirmish game is incredibly limited with a scope so tiny that it makes it basically worthless. The Clone Wars would be a far more expansive setting for an actual skirmish/wargame. I said as much in the thread. Then I left the thread.
I have the feeling you did not wanted or cared (or waited) for either products, I usually do not go out of my way to comment on products I do not care about, hence you have not for example seen any comment from me in GW threads.
I care about Zombicide franchise and will comment on it, if you enjoy the recent CMON turning to a GW knockoff aesthetic company with Andrian Smith been hired as the overall designer, I do not.
I do not see why the thread needs to be a positive echo chamber for a product that has changed so drastically without warning almost catapulting it to another genre.
So yes, will comment on the things I think they did well and on the things they did wrong.
Broodmother is straight out of Xenoshyft, why couldn't we have this instead of a 40k knockoff.
For the most part, I enjoyed classic Zombicide (Season 1-3), the aesthetic and everything about it.
I did not purchase Black Plague/Green Horde as I had enough fantasy genre board games. It did not bother me that CMON made a fantasy game based on the Zombicide game system as those games are not compatible with classic.
I am backing Invader becuase: 1) I want and am lacking some Sci-Fi theme board games 2) I do like the Zombicide game system. While it bothers me that they called it "Zombicide" (I would prefer that they call it..."Invaders" a game based on the Zombicide game system) and that there was a change in art direction, it is not a deal breaker for me. The reason being that it is not compatible with the other two Zombicide eras.
DaveC wrote: So It's Karl Urbans Dredd but the knee to waist detail spoils it he doesn't need the skirt!
That was my thought precisely. I'm trying to get past it, but the skirt thing just doesn't fit the rest of the mini. It's a Mad Max-style ramshackle rag draped over a pristine, corporate-looking combat suit. Did they add the skirt to the design to throw off 2000 AD lawsuit concerns? There are a bazillion corporate soldier minis out there already that look similar to this design, so I'm not sure why that would be a problem.
I doubt it's worth modding the figure to give him a new pair of legs (it's not as if the top half of the sculpt is outstanding. It's just O.K.,) but as I said, it isn't hard to find Judge Dredd alikes. Or maybe these days there are finally decent official 2000 AD figures? Maybe I'll substitute a different figure for this guy.
You can find JD miniatures online. Mongoose lost it years ago, so the secondary figures have been available on the market. JD looks pretty much like any other JD miniature, so you could pick up a secondary judge and proxy him for JD. No skirt conversion needed!
Warlord Games has the license, but I can't find a catalog of their miniatures, even on their own site?
PsychoticStorm wrote: Well more of this less (or not at all) of everything else and it would be nice.
Same could be said for your posts in this thread.
Here, let me use me as an example for what you could do to improve your posts in this thread:
1. I don't like the Sea Elves GW is putting out, more specifically I find the "flying fish" concept to be really stupid. I said as much in the thread. Then I left the thread.
2. I think that FFG's new SW skirmish game is incredibly limited with a scope so tiny that it makes it basically worthless. The Clone Wars would be a far more expansive setting for an actual skirmish/wargame. I said as much in the thread. Then I left the thread.
Ok. Now it's your turn.
Good luck tilting at that windmill. He has been regurgitating the same complaints page after page, and the mods seem cool with it, so it is what it is.
To be honest, I now look forward to each new reveal because I want to see how PS will moan. The schadenfreude is cranked to 11.
Gives the vibe of the homage without been too blunt about it, looks well in universe and feels like a survivor who found a pristine upper armour and added it to the improvised armour he already wears.
A few of the survivor aliens and the flying aliens, the growler alien from the expansion and the broodmother (and brood) look good credit were it is.
Question now, the artwork looks like he wears "cadian style" carapace armour while the render shows a rib like flexiplate, will this change?
It’s surprising that they haven’t run into this problem since season 1 but the new artwork is just too on the nose I think they’ve got a bit complacent with the designs and I wouldn’t be surprised to see more go.
Not sad to see Dr. White go much better replacement
The new guy is a big upgrade. I hope that they are asked to remove all their homage figures. I just think they are mostly tacky, and not a good fit for the darker tone of Z:Invader.
Love the replacement, but then I’ve never been a fan of Zombicide’s celebrity survivors. I’m definitely leaning more towards backing than not backing now.
They had to slightly change two characters in season one (Eva and Marvin) due to Miramax complaints (both based on Tarantino movies). The final models were still inspired by the same characters but changed enough (added a hat!) to make them so a copy, they also had to change the colour of outfits on the stat cards and since then the Bios have been random rather than based upon the character inspiring the model.
Gallahad wrote: The new guy is a big upgrade. I hope that they are asked to remove all their homage figures. I just think they are mostly tacky, and not a good fit for the darker tone of Z:Invader.
Why would you hope that?
If you don't want to like it then that's fine. You can choose not to use them. But why would you actively hope that they are unable to produce these things? That's absurd.
I am with hbmc, if you don’t like them, ignore them or maybe sell them.
I got most of my Z games more or less for free just by selling the celebrity minis I did not liked...
For some strange reason the renders remind me of prodos products… tacky and crude concepts. Looking at the zombicides I have here this one falls so short of what could have been such a cool zombicide in space… its not even funny. So we got another spacehulk wannabee with nothing interesting.
Ithe art form homages this time seem to be poorly blurred or filtered versions of real celebrity faces rather than art that looks
similar to the inspiration
carlos13th wrote: Ithe art form homages this time seem to be poorly blurred or filtered versions of real celebrity faces rather than art that looks
Is similarly to the inspiration
Automatically Appended Next Post: The art for the homages this time seem to be poorly blurred or filtered versions of real celebrity faces rather than art that looks
Is similarly to the inspiration
I think that comes from Adrian Smith being an artist and trying to make these look lifelike while the older art was cartoonish.
Gallahad wrote: The new guy is a big upgrade. I hope that they are asked to remove all their homage figures. I just think they are mostly tacky, and not a good fit for the darker tone of Z:Invader.
Why would you hope that?
If you don't want to like it then that's fine. You can choose not to use them. But why would you actively hope that they are unable to produce these things? That's absurd.
Because then they get swapped for things that are better designed and visually fit with the setting, creating a more cohesive visual experience.
Karl Kopinski box sculpted by Patrick Masson - you don't see many sci-fi kids
sticking with the $15 for 6 minis nice - I'm guessing these are cheaper as they are KS exclusive and won't have retail packing.
If the renders look odd it's because they aren't renders Patrick Masson is a traditional sculptor and someone has recoloured has sculpts for the images.
Another unusual entry, but I like them. And I really like the $15 price point.
And I heartily second the cheer for including a traditional sculptor in this project. I'm not against digital sculpts / sculptors, but I would like to see more hand-sculpts in the mix here.
The IRIS is a very different Sentry Gun in the game. This is a rogue machine, and it has some very particular mechanics. First of all, it is not deployed during setup as your Sentry Gun for that Mission. No, you use one of the other Sentry Guns normally. The IRIS has Xeno spawn cards, similar to an Abomination, and when its card is drawn, the Sentry Gun is deployed and all Abominations get an extra activation. From then on, the Sentry Gun acts very much like a Xeno, trying to attack the Survivors during the Xenos' Phase. HOWEVER, if a Survivor has the Sentry Gun Remote token or skill, they are able to also control the IRIS Sentry Gun to attack the Xenos during the Players' Phase! The IRIS doesn't receive an Activation token, so it's never attacked by Xenos. It is indeed a very confused machine.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I really like them, but just like the Kabuki gang, they look like characters from the game I wish they’d made.
Hmm, let’s see, just with these 2 boxes you got 2x the Survivors you need to play, what is missing?
I honestly can't believe the negatives on this KS, I am happy so far, Great new ideas, nice minis from a variety of styles and on top I can use many of the minis in other games!
And please remember, if you don’t like it, don’t pledge and move on...
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I really like them, but just like the Kabuki gang, they look like characters from the game I wish they’d made.
Hmm, let’s see, just with these 2 boxes you got 2x the Survivors you need to play, what is missing?
I honestly can't believe the negatives on this KS, I am happy so far, Great new ideas, nice minis from a variety of styles and on top I can use many of the minis in other games!
And please remember, if you don’t like it, don’t pledge and move on...
The sentence you quoted from me literally starts with “I really like them...”
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also get the impression that many on this board think that you can change a lot once a KS started.
IMO it is more like an oceanliner, once on course it is a bit difficult to change course.
And why would CMON change a hugely overpledged KS? Maybe it appeals to some?
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also get the impression that many on this board think that you can change a lot once a KS started.
IMO it is more like an oceanliner, once on course it is a bit difficult to change course.
And why would CMON change a hugely overpledged KS? Maybe it appeals to some?
I can’t talk for everyone, but for me being vocal it hopefully will help them see what we are looking for and improve with the next offering. I’m not going to the comments section of the KS because of all the people that just hang out and talk about breakfast or unicorns. If they don’t bother checking out other online sources for comments then them as I have plenty of great figs from them I can use and plenty more that just add to the mountain of shame.
As to why they would change a hugely successful KS? It’s simple. BRAND. They have a great brand awareness with the Zombicide name, they leveraged it with this non-zombie game to draw in sales, but are they progressing to the same level as previous Zombicide? I doubt as of right now that they will get the sales post KS during the pledgemanager as any of the other seasons. This really just looks like a new crew was given the reigns of control and told your in charge of the space version . They are going through the motions of all the other seasons, but there isn’t a solid draw yet. I’ve been tempted to buy multiple copies of other seasons to get extras of the models I really like, but nothing here has really grabbed me. Rising sun almost got me just for Godzilla. Green Horde got me for the rest of my Monty Python crew and the giants, trebuchet oh and Dragon . They will make big $$$ but not nearly the same as previous Zombicides.
DaveC wrote: Karl Kopinski box sculpted by Patrick Masson - you don't see many sci-fi kids
sticking with the $15 for 6 minis nice - I'm guessing these are cheaper as they are KS exclusive and won't have retail packing.
If the renders look odd it's because they aren't renders Patrick Masson is a traditional sculptor and someone has recoloured has sculpts for the images.
Spoiler:
These would make nice Juves for Necromunda. Are you allowed to get add ons only or do you have to get the base pledge?
I doubt CMON cares about Dakka, since they're going after the boardgame audience (and the BGG threads are more organized). However, with GH making 5M and Invader trending towards 3M, that's a definite drop in funding for the Z franchise. Will CMON blame sf? Will CMON bring back the original artist and art direction? Or has Zombicide finally worn out boardgamer interest without CMON finding its next "big" franchise? Massive Darkness wasn't as well received, at least for its campaign rules. CMON may be hoping Song of Ice and Fire will be a major line, or at least a way into retail stores. At least they have their own name as a major brand of miniatures and boardgames for the boardgamer market.
Honestly like everything about this KS so far, though the original Abomination leaves something to be desired. That's fine though as we have a few others now anyway.
Seems to be a lot of people in the KS comments who whinge about xx mini not being in theme or necessary, and are certain that the things they want to see are money makers.
Personally I'm content to see what CMON come up with. They know what they're doing.
ced1106 wrote: I doubt CMON cares about Dakka, since they're going after the boardgame audience (and the BGG threads are more organized). However, with GH making 5M and Invader trending towards 3M, that's a definite drop in funding for the Z franchise. Will CMON blame sf? Will CMON bring back the original artist and art direction? Or has Zombicide finally worn out boardgamer interest without CMON finding its next "big" franchise? Massive Darkness wasn't as well received, at least for its campaign rules. CMON may be hoping Song of Ice and Fire will be a major line, or at least a way into retail stores. At least they have their own name as a major brand of miniatures and boardgames for the boardgamer market.
All interesting questions. Personally, although I like the look of a lot of what I’ve seen, this KS launched just as I received the first part of my Green Horde pledge. So, I’m looking at it all thinking, “it’s nice, but I just got a Zombicide game”. Maybe their timing could have been better?
ced1106 wrote: I doubt CMON cares about Dakka, since they're going after the boardgame audience (and the BGG threads are more organized). However, with GH making 5M and Invader trending towards 3M, that's a definite drop in funding for the Z franchise. Will CMON blame sf? Will CMON bring back the original artist and art direction? Or has Zombicide finally worn out boardgamer interest without CMON finding its next "big" franchise? Massive Darkness wasn't as well received, at least for its campaign rules. CMON may be hoping Song of Ice and Fire will be a major line, or at least a way into retail stores. At least they have their own name as a major brand of miniatures and boardgames for the boardgamer market.
In business you don’t ignore a market share even if it’s a tangent market. They know people have bought their games to use in other systems, and it’s probably why some look so good for other systems too. They probably DO spend more time on BGG, but if you only listen to one segment of your customer base then your doomed for failure.
I don't know what the other Zombicide campaigns felt like as I didn't back them, but this one sure feels slow and boring for the funding level and number of backers. Most of the stretch goals just feel really ho-hum, with the bright spots being few and far between. Hopefully CMON looks at the numbers and adds something "must have" to the campaign. Things like the orphan and Kabuki gangs are nice, but if for some reason CMON had to backpedal and not release them, I just wouldn't really miss them that much or feel much of a sting.
-Loki- wrote: Green Horde got a dragon near the end. I’m guessing they’ve got something lined up for Invader.
Green horde had a dragon from the get go which was exclusive. The second dragon from green horde is part of an expansion and not exclusive. So the GH was drawing people in with a big bad dragon from the start and got a huge bump from the add on second dragon extra purchase later. Unless they come out with an add on ‘Alien’ aliens set, I don’t think we will see a massive surge.
All those add-ons could have caused complications/costs that CMON doesn't want to deal with. Maybe they just don't add that much to their bottom line to be worth it to them?
But I'd agree with you on the mechs thing - give us more mechs!
-Loki- wrote: Green Horde got a dragon near the end. I’m guessing they’ve got something lined up for Invader.
Think one of the CMON mods said the big dragon-sized mini in Invader was unlikely after looking into the Eightball. I hope to get a big one though and a big robot or mech...
Well I didn't expect that - not just an expansion but a full fledged base game in itself- this got the better xenos designs
For $90 this Optional Buy gives you Zombicide: Dark Side! This is an entirely new standalone core box, including all the content you would expect in a Zombicide base game: Survivors, Machines, Xenos, Tiles, Missions, Equipment, Tokens, etc. While Dark Side is an independent entry point into the Zombicide sci-fi universe, it is also fully compatible with Zombicide: Invader, which means it also acts as an expansion for it, bringing a lot more content to your game.
In Dark Side, players take on the role of the soldiers of Green Squade and delve into the underground mining facilities of PK-L7. There they will face a new breed of Xenos: Drillers! these red devils benefit from the pits that the Driller Abomination digs up, using them for extra protection, and to make surprise attacks on the Survivors. Players will also have to contend with the crushing darkness of the tunnels, which severely hamper ranged combat. With new equipment at their disposal, and new tactics to be learned, Green Squad might just stand a chance to make its way out of the dark!
Dark Side will be produced as a Limited Print Run. This means we will only produce enough quantity to fulfill the backers' orders and any other retail pre-orders, but have no plans to reprint at this time. To be clear, this is not a Kickstarter Exclusive, and will be available at retail. But numbers will be limited, so if you want to guarantee a copy, the safe way is to include it in your pledge.
By purchasing Dark Side in this campaign, you will also get some awesome extras not available in the retail version: A booklet featuring 10 new Missions that mix together elements from both the Invader and Dark Side boxes. These Missions also utilize a new game mechanic: Companions that will help the Survivors in their mission. 3 Kickstarter Exclusive Scientist Companions are included, each granting Survivors a different benefit. These extra elements are explored more in depth towards the end of this Update.
The Driller Abomination is the stuff of nightmares. This huge beast is all claws and horns and other things that skewer and gore. Its attacks deal 3 damage, instantly killing even an armored soldier. Like all Abominations, it gets an extra activation whenever an Abomination card is drawn, or the players run out of a type of Xeno miniatures, so it can be on top of you when you least expect it. Bringing it down requires 3 damage, which can be obtained by using a Seismic Grenade, or concentrating your fire.
Driller Workers are the grunts of this Xeno race. Spawning in large numbers, Workers may quickly surround the Survivors, specially if spawning from Open Pits. While Workers are usually not a big challenge to put down, things could become tricky if you need to eliminate them while entrenched in an Open Pit. Having to deal 2 Damage to kill each Driller Worker is no picnic!
That Hunters are a very real threat, Survivors should already be aware of (2 actions per activation usually means a quick death, even dealing only 1 damage per attack). However, Driller Hunters charging at you under the cover of darkness is a whole other level of terror! Try to draw them into a building, preferably to the corridors, so you may stand a chance of shooting them down a couple Zones away. If you're fighting them in the dark tunnels, you're in deep trouble. Don't even dream of engaging them in a Pit Zone, where it will take 2 Damage to destroy each of them.
Driller Tanks deal 2 damage in a single attack, which is enough to kill most Survivors in one hit. Thankfully they are not very fast, so if you meet them in the dark tunnels you may still be able to position yourself to take them on. But for all that is holy don't allow them to take protection in an Open Pit Zone. Having to deal 3 Damage to take one down means no normal weapon will do the job, it will be like attacking an Abomination!
Those new alien look great ! They are so much better than the ones in the base box (the new survivors still looks like bad 40k knockoff though).
I wish I could pledge for dark side in place of the base box.
You guys complaining about rivets in the soldiers' armor ought to be happier with the new survivors in Dark Side. They have significantly fewer. Personally, I like the fact that even though only one is actually wearing his helmet, almost all of them are at least carrying their headgear with them. They also each appear to have unique designs, which does actually make me disappointed that they aren't wearing them.
The aliens are also a huge improvement. I like the set overall, I'm just not sure about that $90 price tag.
Darkside just makes me feel taken advantage of. CMON basically just announced that they are running another KS campaign within Z: Invader. Why not spend their energy and my money making Invader the best it can be? And I think I will burst a blood vessel if Darkside starts getting unlocks while Black ops continues to languish.
Well, this one is obviously better looking(though that is a bit subjectional), but why give people chance to choose which one they want to buy when you can sell em both? More or less same thing in the end, but hey, more money in CMON pockets.
If this was first box, I could have been tempted to back, since I do like this one more, though, it really looks even more 40k ripp off(SM&nids expansion).
They really wanna milk this franchize...not sure should they change they logo to something more in line with cows...
smurfORnot wrote: Well, this one is obviously better looking(though that is a bit subjectional), but why give people chance to choose which one they want to buy when you can sell em both? More or less same thing in the end, but hey, more money in CMON pockets.
If this was first box, I could have been tempted to back, since I do like this one more, though, it really looks even more 40k ripp off(SM&nids expansion).
They really wanna milk this franchize...not sure should they change they logo to something more in line with cows...
They look similar to GW because the main artist for this ZCide is Adrian Smith, a former GW artist.
I can be an all or nothing kind of chap at times. I just can’t justify the cost of getting the two base games plus the expansion and the add on gangs (around £200 I think), but I know I’ll feel forever dissatisfied if I only got part of it. So, weird as it might seem to some, this latest add on has convinced me not to back at all.
I like it, I don’t love it. I certainly don’t 200 quid like it. Plus, I’m pretty certain that there’ll be another Zombicide along eventually that I might like better. So, I’m out.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I can be an all or nothing kind of chap at times. I just can’t justify the cost of getting the two base games plus the expansion and the add on gangs (around £200 I think), but I know I’ll feel forever dissatisfied if I only got part of it. So, weird as it might seem to some, this latest add on has convinced me not to back at all.
I like it, I don’t love it. I certainly don’t 200 quid like it. Plus, I’m pretty certain that there’ll be another Zombicide along eventually that I might like better. So, I’m out.
I understand your thinking. A lot must be thinking the same. The $$$ rise, but the backers waiver between 11,848-11,852 for the past hour.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I can be an all or nothing kind of chap at times. I just can’t justify the cost of getting the two base games plus the expansion and the add on gangs (around £200 I think), but I know I’ll feel forever dissatisfied if I only got part of it. So, weird as it might seem to some, this latest add on has convinced me not to back at all.
I like it, I don’t love it. I certainly don’t 200 quid like it. Plus, I’m pretty certain that there’ll be another Zombicide along eventually that I might like better. So, I’m out.
I understand your thinking. A lot must be thinking the same. The $$$ rise, but the backers waiver between 11,848-11,852 for the past hour.
I don't even like Darkside but my completionist mentality is telling me to just back the whole game for 0 dollars. I actually quite like the base game Xenos (except the spoiler abom) as I think they will make nice Deep ones for some mythos/Conan gaming. I don't like the Darkside ones much because they suffer from spike overload.
Do I understand this right? They put their worst alien designs in the core box, you have to buy to get the cool stuff? It is like buying the rejects to get the chance to buy something else.
I mean it makes sense, business wise, but it feels like a big scrotum move.
I will wait for a retail version and what it will actually contain. Maybe the ballsack tentacles will be kickstarter exclusive.
I'm late to the party so I'm just catching up at over $1.8mil. Am I correct that they're basically offering three boxes (two variant cores and one expansion)? All with different figs?
Yeah, but like Jacob you first must pledge for the Leah core set and then pledge more for the Rachel core set. I guess the expansion is one of the handmaidens..?
If Dark Side had been the original offering my bet is people would've considered the alien designs adequate, but boring. Now, in comparison to the Invader aliens, they are the pinnacle of monster design. Genius move!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Yeah, but like Jacob you first must pledge for the Leah core set and then pledge more for the Rachel core set. I guess the expansion is one of the handmaidens..?
I'm guessing that's a handmaid's tale reference but that's on the one main streaming service I've never subscribed to. Regardless, the yeah is loud and clear, lol.
It is not a modern city were a variety of characters live in, it is not a medieval city were a ton of adventurers pass through.
It is a mining colony on a far away planet with no indication of any civilian area and we have a kabuki theatre troupe, orphans, more military and scientists than technicians and miners and a ton of odd characters that are not what a mining outpost that is been set up would require and now a space pirate that looks like captain hook (except he does not have a hook just a cybernetic arm) ectr ectr....
Where is the direction in this one?
Also I agree with AzazelX this looks more and more as marketed to be a "not 40k" than anything else, did they not have faith in them building their own sci fi setting and selling it?
Azazelx wrote: Is it just me or is CMON getting more and more cynical each campaign?
It's not just me, is it?
I haven't traditionally followed c'mon campaigns since the original Zombicide; what do you mean? This one feels more grimdark in its setting but I don't have a frame of reference for more than that.
PsychoticStorm wrote: It is not a modern city were a variety of characters live in, it is not a medieval city were a ton of adventurers pass through.
It is a mining colony on a far away planet with no indication of any civilian area and we have a kabuki theatre troupe, orphans, more military and scientists than technicians and miners and a ton of odd characters that are not what a mining outpost that is been set up would require and now a space pirate that looks like captain hook (except he does not have a hook just a cybernetic arm) ectr ectr....
Where is the direction in this one?
Also I agree with AzazelX this looks more and more as marketed to be a "not 40k" than anything else, did they not have faith in them building their own sci fi setting and selling it?
In all fairness, 40k pulls from a lot of different sources. The concept of a militarized force operating in space, with or without heavy armor isn't exactly unique to 40k. The only things that really screams 40k to me (and frankly look out of place) are the "this totally isn't a servo-skull" bits on some of the turrets. Some of the Xenos look vaguely Tyranid... which also means that they look vaguely like they're from the Alien movies... a series of movies about marines in space being sent to check out some mining facilities on other planets?
I would also expect more military/scientists than technicians/miners in a "mining facility has gone dark and we've been sent in to check things out" scenario.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Yeah, but like Jacob you first must pledge for the Leah core set and then pledge more for the Rachel core set. I guess the expansion is one of the handmaidens..?
I'm guessing that's a handmaid's tale reference but that's on the one main streaming service I've never subscribed to. Regardless, the yeah is loud and clear, lol.
Nah, just a reference to Rachel having trouble conceiving and giving Jacob her handmaid to pork on the side.
Although, that is almost certainly what gave the book and the TV series their names.
I've backed the core set because it looks rather fun and I don't have any of the earlier versions. The extra characters are a bit all over the place but i think that's good because they are effectively free and will appeal to a wide range of people. When you invite your friends over they are bound to find something they like the look if. Could do with a few more stompy robots though. I live in hope
OK this could get confusing with stretch goals for Civilian, Soldier and now Dark Side - they are all interspersed with each other so at least the overall SG gaps aren't increasing
I think the biggest problem people are having with this is that it feels like a clown car pulled up at the colony and dumped its passengers before driving off. If it's a remote mining colony it should really be a few soldiers/security guys, some scientists, engineers and the bulk should be the actual miners themselves. The game should be a Dead Space 1&2 analogue really.
Oh sweet, another Xenoshyft looking alien. Cool.
I do find it a little odd we haven't had a survivor that is clearly a miner. Maybe a dude with some kind of driller exoskeleton, like the miner class in Deep Rock Galactic. That could be cool.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Yeah, but like Jacob you first must pledge for the Leah core set and then pledge more for the Rachel core set. I guess the expansion is one of the handmaidens..?
I'm guessing that's a handmaid's tale reference but that's on the one main streaming service I've never subscribed to. Regardless, the yeah is loud and clear, lol.
Nah, just a reference to Rachel having trouble conceiving and giving Jacob her handmaid to pork on the side.
Not nearly enough Old Testament references in the N&R forum. Well done.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I think the biggest problem people are having with this is that it feels like a clown car pulled up at the colony and dumped its passengers before driving off. If it's a remote mining colony it should really be a few soldiers/security guys, some scientists, engineers and the bulk should be the actual miners themselves. The game should be a Dead Space 1&2 analogue really.
I think the biggest problem people are having is that this game doesn't match up with the game in their minds. Everyone seems to want a different sci-fi experience with this set and are upset that CMON didn't follow their unique take exactly.
Regarding all the "incongruent" characters around on this colony who is to say that there aren't entertainers dispatched to up morale. We have that now with FoBs in combat zones, so why not in space? And, this remote colony reminds me of an old West-style frontier town rather than an isolated base in deep space. It seems like a spot that is dangerous, on the fringes of civilization/law, with a lot of lucrative opportunities for those willing to risk the dangers. Mining towns in the old West were full of oddball characters, so this colony seems very plausible in the sense that there would be outsiders and fringe types mixed in with military and scientific staff. Oh, and its a fething board game, so the rule of cool, and otherwise fun ideas shouldn't kill immersion. This is a light hearted shoot 'em up collaborative game, it isn't some deeply immersive RPG experience.
Nostromodamus wrote: Maybe there will be a mining crew add on or SG? Or maybe all the miners were killed when they dug too deep...
I certainly wouldn't complain about having some gritty sci-fi space miners thrown in. If they did a set as a paid add-on, I'd be all over it. Especially if the wound up even remotely similar to the miner designs from Halo 5. I'd love to have those in miniature format.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: I think the biggest problem people are having is that this game doesn't match up with the game in their minds. Everyone seems to want a different sci-fi experience with this set and are upset that CMON didn't follow their unique take exactly.
Yahbut Nemesis pulled in $4M. It's not even part of a franchise (albeit one that may have worn out its viability) and a very different game than Awaken Realm's previous one. Invader's trend is to $3M.
While the main complaints here are about the sculpts of the core game and lack of cohesive theme, Nemesis' "tit window" tempest was as far as the threads got.
Well, yet another KS will be starting soon enough. Then another. Then another. Plenty of competition for my dollar!
The miners are all dead, eaten by the zombies flooding in the mines. It is the administrative and tech support types and the "camp followers" in the topside that are still alive. And the hardcore security force (some of which have been sent to the colony after the incident started). A.k.a. "the survivors".
The mining colony is a civilian colony where the soldiers are sent as security force. This is not a military base. Thus there are all kinds of type of people here, not just soldiers. After the incident started, more soldiers have been sent in (Black squad, Green squad).
Col Hammer wrote: The miners are all dead, eaten by the zombies flooding in the mines. It is the administrative and tech support types and the "camp followers" in the topside that are still alive. And the hardcore security force (some of which have been sent to the colony after the incident started). A.k.a. "the survivors".
The mining colony is a civilian colony where the soldiers are sent as security force. This is not a military base. Thus there are all kinds of type of people here, not just soldiers. After the incident started, more soldiers have been sent in (Black squad, Green squad).
Whilst this makes total sense, I am with Barzam if we can get some awesome hypertech mining engineers I would be a happy backer
Oh, and if anyone in a position of authority is reading this, don't forget more stompy robots!
DarkTraveler777 wrote: I think the biggest problem people are having is that this game doesn't match up with the game in their minds. Everyone seems to want a different sci-fi experience with this set and are upset that CMON didn't follow their unique take exactly.
Yahbut Nemesis pulled in $4M. It's not even part of a franchise (albeit one that may have worn out its viability) and a very different game than Awaken Realm's previous one. Invader's trend is to $3M.
While the main complaints here are about the sculpts of the core game and lack of cohesive theme, Nemesis' "tit window" tempest was as far as the threads got.
Well, yet another KS will be starting soon enough. Then another. Then another. Plenty of competition for my dollar!
I am not following your line of reasoning here. Who cares what Nemesis pulled in dollar-wise? That doesn't impact Invader other than giving people wishing to declare Invader a "failure" a little fuel because it isn't breaking new records in funding. So. What. That has no bearing on the point I was making which is that a lot of people have built up the idea of a sci-fi Zombicide in their heads and nothing CMON puts out will satisfy those people. Look at the posts in this thread. People have very specific interpretations on how CMON could have done this game "right" and anything short of that is "wrong". Ignoring the obvious "donkey-caves and opinions" chestnut, that mindset is so full of narcissism that it has made reading through this thread annoying. Especially when the same arguments crop up page, after page, after page.
So what about those arguments?
I call bogus on the argument that the theme isn't cohesive. It is as cohesive as any other Zombicide campaign I have partaken in (Z1, Z2 and Black Plague). All of those had bizarre characters and shoe-horned celebrity homages. This Zombicide is nothing different.
The complaints with the sculpts also seem like they are coming from a very vocal minority of posters on here hell bent on declaring this game a colossal failure, so while everyone's aesthetic tastes vary, I don't put a lot of stock in their opinions on the matter. Same with the complaints about the art direction. I understand people are unhappy that the art changed, but that alone seems to inform all of the previous complaints. Again, art is subjective just like preferences for miniature designs, but when the same people complaining about the art, and then the models, and then the overall design, well it starts to look like 1) the game isn't for them and 2) the game was NEVER going to be for them. And 3) it looks like their constant presence is just hate-posting as a means of spreading their own disappointment.
And I say that last bit because, despite knowing that CMON campaigns are largely "done" developmentally once they hit Kickstarter, there is still this constant complaining about aspects of the game that won't change. Like the art work. Like the models. Like the theme, mechanics, etc. So, what is the only fall back for those people? To declare the game a failure, to declare it an outlier and "not a true Zombicide" game because of reasons X, Y and Z, and to try and make it look like the campaign is failing.
It isn't.
Even if it "only" pulls in $3 million dollars, that is still a $3 million dollar campaign. If that is what is considered a failure, well, gak, then there haven't been too many successful KS campaigns then.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Col Hammer wrote: The miners are all dead, eaten by the zombies flooding in the mines. It is the administrative and tech support types and the "camp followers" in the topside that are still alive. And the hardcore security force (some of which have been sent to the colony after the incident started). A.k.a. "the survivors".
The mining colony is a civilian colony where the soldiers are sent as security force. This is not a military base. Thus there are all kinds of type of people here, not just soldiers. After the incident started, more soldiers have been sent in (Black squad, Green squad).
That is my take as well. Since there are humanoid Xenos and now lots of non-humanoid ones, I wouldn't be surprised if the humanoid xenos are/were the miners too.
Col Hammer wrote: The miners are all dead, eaten by the zombies flooding in the mines. It is the administrative and tech support types and the "camp followers" in the topside that are still alive. And the hardcore security force (some of which have been sent to the colony after the incident started). A.k.a. "the survivors".
The mining colony is a civilian colony where the soldiers are sent as security force. This is not a military base. Thus there are all kinds of type of people here, not just soldiers. After the incident started, more soldiers have been sent in (Black squad, Green squad).
Whilst this makes total sense, I am with Barzam if we can get some awesome hypertech mining engineers I would be a happy backer
Oh, and if anyone in a position of authority is reading this, don't forget more stompy robots!
Oh, I wouldn't mind at all to get some of the miner types too. Say, a $15 box of 6 miners perhaps?
Most "complainers" raise issue of drastic brand change and hope the complains and the performance of the campaign will give CMON the correct feedback.
It may perform splendid then we as complainers were wrong it may perform bad and CMON decide it is not the art style and backers expectations that were quite obvious before CMON even announced the ZCI, but that sci fi does not sell and not attempt anything else.
Personally I find Andrian Smith art work be too invasive in CMON kickstarters and while the kickstarters CMON did based on his work don't feel out of place since they take his work and put it in a game the other way around taking a game and putting his work on it does not seem to work well, especially if the brand is already established and has created expectations in the consumer base.
Its a feels issue here and this does not feel Zombicide, it feels the others, it feels spacehulk, it feels many things it does not feel Zombicide, every other remark about models, cohesion, why the good starter is the pay extra 90 on top of the original pledge for the one most seem to not like come on top of the basic disappointment.
As many said if the green was the base game and the original pledge was not existing the community reaction would have been better, still looks odd for the brand, but at least it is executed better and of course to stop people wait for retail its a limited run KS exclusive item, yes I can see people feel cynical about it.
Now stompy robots, one (or more) would be nice to have.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: The complaints with the sculpts also seem like they are coming from a very vocal minority of posters on here hell bent on declaring this game a colossal failure, so while everyone's aesthetic tastes vary, I don't put a lot of stock in their opinions on the matter. Same with the complaints about the art direction. I understand people are unhappy that the art changed, but that alone seems to inform all of the previous complaints. Again, art is subjective just like preferences for miniature designs, but when the same people complaining about the art, and then the models, and then the overall design, well it starts to look like 1) the game isn't for them and 2) the game was NEVER going to be for them. And 3) it looks like their constant presence is just hate-posting as a means of spreading their own disappointment.
I'm a bit late to the party and was wondering how the art changed. Could you go into that for a couple sentences? Was it previewed long ago as something other than what they're showing now? Or did I miss a disconnect between the current figs and art shown?
PsychoticStorm wrote: Most "complainers" raise issue of drastic brand change and hope the complains and the performance of the campaign will give CMON the correct feedback.
Sure, the final take of the campaign will give CMON feedback one way or another. But the endless posting of the same complaints? What does that accomplish besides annoying people here? CMON isn't monitoring this thread, and even if they were, they aren't changing the designs of anything in this campaign. The designs are pretty much set. We all know this.
Seems a perfect fit for Zombicide: Invader, then. Sorry I couldn't help grabbing for such low hanging fruit.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Its a feels issue here and this does not feel Zombicide, it feels the others, it feels spacehulk, it feels many things it does not feel Zombicide, every other remark about models, cohesion, why the good starter is the pay extra 90 on top of the original pledge for the one most seem to not like come on top of the basic disappointment.
As many said if the green was the base game and the original pledge was not existing the community reaction would have been better, still looks odd for the brand, but at least it is executed better and of course to stop people wait for retail its a limited run KS exclusive item, yes I can see people feel cynical about it.
All of that is more of the "I want the game my way, and anything different is wrong" type mindset that I referenced earlier. What difference in "execution" with Dark Side versus Invader appeals to you more? Aside from the design of the xenos, they are about the same, no? And you've made it abundantly clear that you don't like the base game's xenos, so is that what you mean by Dark Side being executed better? The xenos are better? Because if so, then that is an aesthetics preference, not an actual change in how the game was presented. Both Invader and Dark Side were executed in the same fashion, with slightly different mechanics (mold vs darkness) and models but otherwise the same end result. If Dark Side was the initial offering instead of Invader you would still have Smith drawing space people with rivets (horror!) and you would still have humans fighting xenos and not zombies (horror!), all things supposedly deal breakers that made this game "not Zombicide" and yet you now insist that the community would have responded better to Dark Side? It seems to me the same problems would have existed if Dark Side was the initial offering that caused people to scoff at Invader. Yes, I'll concede that the much maligned Invader spoiler Abomination wouldn't be a factor, but that Abomination isn't the sole reason for all the angst in this thread, so I remain unconvinced by your assertion.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: The complaints with the sculpts also seem like they are coming from a very vocal minority of posters on here hell bent on declaring this game a colossal failure, so while everyone's aesthetic tastes vary, I don't put a lot of stock in their opinions on the matter. Same with the complaints about the art direction. I understand people are unhappy that the art changed, but that alone seems to inform all of the previous complaints. Again, art is subjective just like preferences for miniature designs, but when the same people complaining about the art, and then the models, and then the overall design, well it starts to look like 1) the game isn't for them and 2) the game was NEVER going to be for them. And 3) it looks like their constant presence is just hate-posting as a means of spreading their own disappointment.
I'm a bit late to the party and was wondering how the art changed. Could you go into that for a couple sentences? Was it previewed long ago as something other than what they're showing now? Or did I miss a disconnect between the current figs and art shown?
The artist behind the previous Zombicide games changed with this edition. Adrian Smith is the new artist, so the aesthetic has changed from a more comic-book style to Smith's decidedly more realistic and "grim dark" style.
DarkTraveler777, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I am in for everything in this kickstarter. Zombicide KS'ers have always been all over the place with the KS exclusive figures, this one is no different. The only complaint I agree with in this entire thread is that the original abomination is just terrible.
Now my only concern is that I've done my math correctly. Has anybody figured out what the total prices if you going in for everything?
Edit: fixed autocorrect issues.
The artist behind the previous Zombicide games changed with this edition. Adrian Smith is the new artist, so the aesthetic has changed from a more comic-book style to Smith's decidedly more realistic and "grim dark" style.
Ok, thanks. I was a big fan of Adrian Smith when he did the old Leviathan minis game but inexplicably not when he switched to GW/40k back in 3rd edition. I'm ambivalent to what I've seen in this campaign of his art. Like I said, I haven't followed Zombicide too closely but my recollection is that this is the first true future scifi version (the others being current and medieval zombie genres instead). As long as its not a bait and switch after funding, I'm fine with a change in artist/asthetics personally.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: Seems a perfect fit for Zombicide: Invader, then. Sorry I couldn't help grabbing for such low hanging fruit.
You must be thrilled with the Tanks. Their fruit can hang no lower.
More seriously, I wonder if they're keeping the Dark Side from being a pledge level to avoid having backers see the numbers. How disheartening must it be to see your limited run expansion outperform the base game you selected as your final product? But to have your customers know, not just suspect, but know that you made such a dramatic error? That would be disastrous. I'd expect at best for there to be a discounted all in pledge added later on. If the demand is really that much higher for Dark Side than Invader- it would take tremendous courage to admit it and change your product.
It is a mining colony on a far away planet with no indication of any civilian area and we have a kabuki theatre troupe, orphans, more military and scientists than technicians and miners and a ton of odd characters that are not what a mining outpost that is been set up would require and now a space pirate that looks like captain hook (except he does not have a hook just a cybernetic arm) ectr ectr....
Where is the direction in this one?
Why are options bad? You dont have to use them all or any if you dont want to.
D&D monster manuals have sold in the millions over the years and I would guess 0% of Dungeon Masters have used every monster profile in the book, does that make the book bad?
As for 'why are they here' justification well....... "There was an alien spacecraft there. A derelict ship. We homed on its beacon..."
@Gitzbitah You're suggesting CMON didn't arrange things this way on purpose? My interpretation is that CMON is exploring the boundaries of FOMO sales psychology.
Gitzbitah wrote: More seriously, I wonder if they're keeping the Dark Side from being a pledge level to avoid having backers see the numbers.
There is no reason why they couldn't let backers choose which starter game they prefer to have for their bundle.
The funding level would drop if they allowed that choise, because many would switch to Dark and leave Invader off altogether. People have already said so. They would prefer to go solely with Dark.
Then would Invader (the main product that will actually go to the stores) even sell enough copies to fund it?
DarkTraveler777 wrote: Sure, the final take of the campaign will give CMON feedback one way or another. But the endless posting of the same complaints? What does that accomplish besides annoying people here? CMON isn't monitoring this thread, and even if they were, they aren't changing the designs of anything in this campaign. The designs are pretty much set. We all know this.
Actually, I've messaged CMON through KS links to this and BGG's Dark Side threads requesting a Dark Side pledge. Invaders is clearly not performing as well as Green Horde -- or even Black Plague. It's up to CMON do decide whether or not to read these complaints or make less money than their previous Zombicide campaign. These comments are pretty much the same over two of their largest target audiences.
Well, this cleared the 2 million mark. Our next stretch goal is Pris, to go along with Roy Batty. Funny enough, I think she looks more like an 80's anime character than she does Pris Stratton. Sadly, she doesn't look too much like Priss Asagiri though. :(
DarkTraveler777 wrote: Sure, the final take of the campaign will give CMON feedback one way or another. But the endless posting of the same complaints? What does that accomplish besides annoying people here? CMON isn't monitoring this thread, and even if they were, they aren't changing the designs of anything in this campaign. The designs are pretty much set. We all know this.
Actually, I've messaged CMON through KS links to this and BGG's Dark Side threads requesting a Dark Side pledge. Invaders is clearly not performing as well as Green Horde -- or even Black Plague. It's up to CMON do decide whether or not to read these complaints or make less money than their previous Zombicide campaign. These comments are pretty much the same over two of their largest target audiences.
Spoiler:
Are you saying that if CMON now changes horses in midstream, it would all of sudden get GH level of funding?
Barzam wrote: Well, this cleared the 2 million mark. Our next stretch goal is Pris, to go along with Roy Batty. Funny enough, I think she looks more like an 80's anime character than she does Pris Stratton. Sadly, she doesn't look too much like Priss Asagiri though. :(
It’s nice to have a Bladerunner set but I think the 3 will do now. The dolls head on the belt is great.
I agree this needs actual miners in the mining colony maybe they will turn up as companions if there are non KS exclusive ones.
Gitzbitah wrote: More seriously, I wonder if they're keeping the Dark Side from being a pledge level to avoid having backers see the numbers.
There is no reason why they couldn't let backers choose which starter game they prefer to have for their bundle.
The funding level would drop if they allowed that choise, because many would switch to Dark and leave Invader off altogether. People have already said so. They would prefer to go solely with Dark.
Then would Invader (the main product that will actually go to the stores) even sell enough copies to fund it?
That drop assumes that everybody who wants Dark was already willing to buy Invader to get it, and yet, you know that is true. The number of die-hards willing to swallow the gak sandwich that is Invader are definitely outnumbered by the people who are sitting on their wallets waiting for a Miner pledge that's fair. If Dark is the better product, they should have led with it, rather than making it an option that you have to buy with Invader. They would have gotten a lot more people on board. In fact, if CMoN didn't tell me about Dark, I wouldn't even be back here at all.
I much prefer the base game. Over equipped space marines against gribbley is much less interesting to me than a motley band of civilians and dregs of a security force.
Like I said, give me a set of gritty space miners in an add-on set and I'll throw down money for them. Toss in another set with some Nortec commandos looking to perform a hostile takeover of the base, and I'll throw down even more money!
Hmm... I wonder if a certain physicist with a penchant for crowbar will be making an appearance at some point
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually that is a good point. We've got back to the future and blade runner but not Gordon Freeman or Isaac or big Jim Raynor.. Maybe there is hope for a decent miner/engineer/scientist set to come
Col Hammer wrote: Are you saying that if CMON now changes horses in midstream, it would all of sudden get GH level of funding?
Would you settle for more backers, more money, and more SG's?
Given the negative reception to the pre-campaign teasers of the sculpts for the original set and positive comments for the Dark Side sculpts, I believe the campaign would do as well or better than GH had the it originally offered either base game as a choice.
Or shelve one of the base games until they need another Zombicide campaign. (And deliver the previous one, first!)
Anyway, tomorrow's another day, and another KS. Hopefully, I won't have to pledge $200 to get $100 worth of stuff I'm interested in.
Azazelx wrote: Is it just me or is CMON getting more and more cynical each campaign?
It's not just me, is it?
I haven't traditionally followed c'mon campaigns since the original Zombicide; what do you mean? This one feels more grimdark in its setting but I don't have a frame of reference for more than that.
I don't mean theme. I mean the way the campaigns are put together. First we're getting ...odd shipping quotes in pledge managers that are WAY higher than the estimates (and don't bs yourself that they don't know what will be in the campaign at it's conclusion). Now we've got an entire additional boxed game as an add-on, when it would usually be it's own campaign with it's own stretch goals and so forth - but featuring Xenos designs that appear to be WAY more popular then the ones offered in the "core" set...
I'll even forgive them calling it Zombicide rather than Xenocide, despite featuring 0% Zombies...
Apart from the game having nothing to do with Orson Scott Card, the "Zombicide" name is for brand recognition. Same reason GW called their sci fi game "Warhammer 40,000".
BobtheInquisitor wrote: @Gitzbitah You're suggesting CMON didn't arrange things this way on purpose? My interpretation is that CMON is exploring the boundaries of FOMO sales psychology.
Wow, that's more cynical than I was willing to go! I'm suggesting they pitched all of these products as the Space Zombie game, and their company overlords chose the one they thought was best- and they were wrong.
As the campaign wore on, they revealed this one in response to backer requests.
Azazelx wrote: I'll even forgive them calling it Zombicide rather than Xenocide, despite featuring 0% Zombies...
Are they some sort of mind-controlled human hosts for a parasitic alien infestation? OK, not exactly Romero-style undead, but close enough for me. Close enough that potential customers who are already fans of Zombicide will have an idea of the basic gameplay - avoid / run away from the ever-growing slow-moving horde.
Much as I'd like to believe they thought they could use the 'better' add on set to sell the 'worse' general release set I don't,
simply because Zombicide actually sells well at retail, and even if they got extra cash in a one off KS way it wouldn't replace the longer term sales of the general release set in stores and on websites
The only reason I could see for them not taking the 'best' set possible to general retail is if they felt it was vunerable to an IP based legal challenge, and despite the look being closer to many film/tv/SF games I don't see anything that really fits the bill there
(if it was a brand new IP with no ongoing sales numbers to back it up, then I probably would agree CMON were doing it)
I'm not even certain that the new add on set is more popular (despite liking it better myself, and seeing many here agreeing), it is clearly more popular with a lot of folk that didn't particularly like the original base game, but in terms of overall numbers who knows
We saw them sell exclusively to Ks with Hate. Do we know that the latest Zombiecide sales numbers are still up? Perhaps each new release has seen diminishing numbers.
Either way, why would they expect the customer base to buy the inferior product at retail instead of not buying at all?
AndrewGPaul wrote:Apart from the game having nothing to do with Orson Scott Card, the "Zombicide" name is for brand recognition. Same reason GW called their sci fi game "Warhammer 40,000".
Azazelx wrote:Yeah, I did consider that. For some reason I'd have expected a Space Zombicide to feature space zombies, though.
Even if it also had not-Xenomorphs.
Zombicide games are about zombies, so calling this a branding recognition thing is deceiving and IMO diluting the brand into something vague.
Personally I was especting zombies in space and not spacehulk for that I have war in 40.000 millenium products covered by GW.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: We saw them sell exclusively to Ks with Hate. Do we know that the latest Zombiecide sales numbers are still up? Perhaps each new release has seen diminishing numbers.
Either way, why would they expect the customer base to buy the inferior product at retail instead of not buying at all?
Good question. I'm curious as well.
fwiw, Here are the KS backer numbers, at least.
Green Horde: 27,236
Black Plague: 20,915
Season 3: 12,011
Season 2: 8,944
Season 1: 5,258
So, they are likely moving to an entirely Kickstart-based sales program. Most of those additional backers likely came from the ranks of retail customers who had made the first two seasons successful for the FLGS's.
CMON may have the network and the name recognition, but I can't help feeling like they got caught halfassing it on this one, especially after competing products have already carved out the KS niche, such as Mantic's Star Saga, Prodos' Chronicle X, and even Sedition Wars to some extent. I don't know the sports, but if I had to make an analogy, I'd say CMON brought their B game midseason.
The preference of the Darkside design over the Invader designs may be overstated on this board. Personally, I much prefer the Invader alien designs to those in Darkside (with the caveat that I find the abominations in both sets to be awful). The aliens in Invader pass my "could natural selection have selected such a thing?" suspension of disbelief threshhold. Those in Darkside look like the designs came out of the notebook of the "edgey" 15 year old from school. They are just corded muscle with claws and armor. They just look silly and try hard to me. They don't even have hands that would work (claws too long). I can imagine them as some sort of demon, purpose built for killing, but not a sentient species
Gallahad wrote: The preference of the Darkside design over the Invader designs may be overstated on this board. Personally, I much prefer the Invader alien designs to those in Darkside (with the caveat that I find the abominations in both sets to be awful). The aliens in Invader pass my "could natural selection have selected such a thing?" suspension of disbelief threshhold. Those in Darkside look like the designs came out of the notebook of the "edgey" 15 year old from school. They are just corded muscle with claws and armor. They just look silly and try hard to me. They don't even have hands that would work (claws too long). I can imagine them as some sort of demon, purpose built for killing, but not a sentient species
I feel the same way. I like the look of the Driller Hunters better than those in Invader, and Green Squad are a slight improvement over the original offering of power armored survivors, but that's it. Beyond that, I really don't see much difference between the two, especially in quality.
I really don't want to delve much into this "Xenocide" thing, so I'll only address it once. Of course when developing this game we considered the name Xenocide, among others. But we soon came to the conclusion that it would still be a Zombicide game, and so should be named as such. Plus, you are fighting zombie aliens, so a name change wasn't really necessary.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, they are likely moving to an entirely Kickstart-based sales program. Most of those additional backers likely came from the ranks of retail customers who had made the first two seasons successful for the FLGS's.
Good point. They'e done it with Rise of Moloch and HATE, as well as one of the Massive Darkness supplements? I'm just surprised they'd do this with their Zombicide franchise, or at least saying they might close the door on retail sales.
OTOH, Monolith went with a KSE model, even with Batman, so it's not like it's a totally new idea...
I really like this one. I'm guessing the fact he isn't exclusive means he must be included in some set alongside Dorian the Grey, Nura Satar, and Captain Warlock. Quite the odd mix.
The number of people deriding this guy as being "too ridiculous" and "silly" are frankly hilarious. Have I gone through a wormhole into a universe where Zombicide was once considered serious?
I find pig guy ridiculous. Previous Zcide campaigns had that sort of humor perhaps, but the art direction definitely makes this one feel more grimdark, making a pigman butcher feel out of place.
Related to this discussion, it's funny trying to figure out who is who on the CMON Invader forum. I'm pretty sure Gallahad is Gallahad. Highlord is Highlord. People know who I am. I think maybe DaveC is Davetypo... Any way... the KS is lots of fun and exciting. Still holding my breath for a not-Bruce Lee.
I'll be pretty sad when it is over in a week or so.
Popsghostly wrote: Related to this discussion, it's funny trying to figure out who is who on the CMON Invader forum. I'm pretty sure Gallahad is Gallahad. Highlord is Highlord. People know who I am. I think maybe DaveC is Davetypo... Any way... the KS is lots of fun and exciting. Still holding my breath for a not-Bruce Lee.
I'll be pretty sad when it is over in a week or so.
My KS backer name is DaveC as well I think I’ve posted 3 times in total on the Invader KS I generally avoid the comments section as it’s 99% woffle (putting it politely) they were interesting to start with back in the day but 6 years and 55 projects later I’m kinda done with them now. I have Thiago’s profile bookmarked so I can pick out just his actual relevant comments.
Popsghostly wrote: Related to this discussion, it's funny trying to figure out who is who on the CMON Invader forum. I'm pretty sure Gallahad is Gallahad. Highlord is Highlord. People know who I am. I think maybe DaveC is Davetypo... Any way... the KS is lots of fun and exciting. Still holding my breath for a not-Bruce Lee.
I'll be pretty sad when it is over in a week or so.
My KS backer name is DaveC as well I think I’ve posted 3 times in total on the Invader KS I generally avoid the comments section as it’s 99% woffle (putting it politely). I have Thiago’s profile bookmarked so I can pick out just his actual relevant comments.
DaveC- You really helped me with that Kicktraq link after I asked on the forum and Davetypo helps me too, so I assumed you were in one in the same lol.
Thiago hasn't been pretty active recently. Maybe something awesome is coming... Or maybe they just put it on autopilot...
Plastic token pack - A bit more expensive than previous versions but there's more in this. I wonder what the mold and pit tokens will look like - probably just flat with the image printed on top anything isn't really practical.
For $25 this Optional Buy gives players 91 plastic tokens so that they don't need to use any cardboard ones in their game! This set contains the various token types found in Invader, Black Ops, and Dark Side, which means you'll have enough plastic tokens to setup any Mission contained in any of these boxes.
What the started bringing up after the dark side is mostly good, I think if invader (and most stretch goals up to dark side) did not exist and it started with Dark side the negativity would not be that bad.
That been said I kinda feel Dark side feels like it was a later campaign pushed into this one.
What the started bringing up after the dark side is mostly good, I think if invader (and most stretch goals up to dark side) did not exist and it started with Dark side the negativity would not be that bad.
Has 'the negativity' been that bad anywhere other than here, which in itself has been limited to a few individuals?
I think on BGG there was a fair amount of grumblings about the design of the aliens and the lack of zombies. Also the usual day one 'is this a failure' kind of posts by doomsayers.
As the campaign has gone on, there has been less negativity and Dark Side has marked a definite swing towards a trend of positive posts.
Grinshanks wrote: I'm 30. I have seen the film, once. I vaguely remember the hype at the time...
I just didn't realise it was still as popular as it is today! Easily one of the most requested models in the KS
The movie had Bruce Willis at the height of his popularity. Probably all those people requesting her are old Gen Xers like me. At least CMON can now fend off some of the nerd rage since she's been included. Others that are strongly desired are Riddick, Samus, Thundercats, Master Chief, which I don't think will make it in there. We'll see.
Driller Blitzers might seem like the Drillers you're already familiar with at first, but they're much, much worse! Ok, so they are basically Tanks, dealing 2 damage per attack, and requiring 2 damage to eliminate. But they're also as fast as Hunters, performing two actions per activation. So yeah, hard to take down, incredibly fast, and will tear your head off when it gets to you.
Oh, and don't forget, as a Driller, it's harder to destroy if it's in a Pit zone. Just thought I'd mention.
I hope these get made into add ons as well I could use them as Plague 2nd Gens they are exactly what I have been looking for.
Yeah this Driller Blitzers are, at least for me, my favourite model of all the ones that have been shown in this kickstarter. I could have great use for a bunch of them.
The scifi homages are strong in this campaign.. and I approve! Are they typically kickstarter only with CMON or are they included for retail copies as well whether in the base game or supplements later on down the line?
The not-vasques is marked as Kickstarter only. The Kickstarter page notes that after the campaign is over the only way to get those minis is at special events while stocks last. So unlikely to be available at retail.
Well that's the driller blitzers funded. I wonder what the next update will bring. Probably a goal for soldier or dark side stuff which doesn't apply to me, but still Quite exciting.
Automatically Appended Next Post: W00t. Not Vasquez also unlocked. The Kickstarter team must be taking Sunday off though. I wonder what the last 3 days will hold.
How has the mini quality changed (if at all) since the very first Zombicide game? That's the only one I have played and the minis were very.. average. Adequate for the board game but nothing I would want to borrow from for RPG or wargaming purposes.
Invader has the expected CMoN value proposition (barring the whole game within a game thing) but right now the deciding factor for me between this and Street Fighter is how useful the models will be outside of the game itself.
Details have improved. I'm fine with using them for RPGs and wargaming, but if you're expecting GW or some of the metals and resins I've seen in some KS, then might as well play it safe and pass.
Siygess wrote: How has the mini quality changed (if at all) since the very first Zombicide game? That's the only one I have played and the minis were very.. average. Adequate for the board game but nothing I would want to borrow from for RPG or wargaming purposes.
Invader has the expected CMoN value proposition (barring the whole game within a game thing) but right now the deciding factor for me between this and Street Fighter is how useful the models will be outside of the game itself.
I'd say you'd be pleasantly surprised, especially if you are mostly excited about using the aliens.
I find their minis only really show their limitations on very slight female minis.
Shorter campaigns are easier to manage (less staff time), and tend to bring in similar amounts of cash especially if it's a heavily advertised/discussed project where a large number of backers come in on day 1 (and even more see the project and hit remind me to check in on the last 2 day to see if its reached 'must have' value)
and as long as you're letting people in via late pledging you pull in even more without KS taking a cut
so there's no real advantage to running longer unless you're a small project that really needs the extra time to get the word out (and even then you're vunerable to people seeing a new shiney KS to switch to during the mid campaign lull)
Edit: longer campaigns are also vulnerable to stretch goals demands (not CMON so much any more, they're putting them out as an when they want rather than really based on cash in) where people expect more stuff every few days at least and if they don't get it they may pull out even if the deal is great anyway and your production slot/cost quote might well have hard limits that you don't want to go over)
I strongly suspect CMON could run them as 2 week project without making any real dent in their total take
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Shorter campaigns are easier to manage (less staff time), and tend to bring in similar amounts of cash especially if it's a heavily advertised/discussed project where a large number of backers come in on day 1 (and even more see the project and hit remind me to check in on the last 2 day to see if its reached 'must have' value)
and as long as you're letting people in via late pledging you pull in even more without KS taking a cut
so there's no real advantage to running longer unless you're a small project that really needs the extra time to get the word out (and even then you're vunerable to people seeing a new shiney KS to switch to during the mid campaign lull)
Edit: longer campaigns are also vulnerable to stretch goals demands (not CMON so much any more, they're putting them out as an when they want rather than really based on cash in) where people expect more stuff every few days at least and if they don't get it they may pull out even if the deal is great anyway and your production slot/cost quote might well have hard limits that you don't want to go over)
I strongly suspect CMON could run them as 2 week project without making any real dent in their total take
See I am not so sure.
BP had $2.371,344 at this point in time and Invader has higher at $2,393,301. BP ended up over the course of the next 9 days reaching $4,000,000+
Invader has only 3 days left, so doubt it will reach the same final total, despite the fact it is trending stronger than Black Plague.
It will be because of time, not pledges, that Invader won't do as well as BP.
I think BP had a stronger draw simply be being fantasy, and thus providing a bucket of minis D&D/Pathfinder players can use in their games (which is a huge plus as Reaper and their Bones line shows), plus of course everybody using them in fantasy tabletop games
The draw of a bucket of SF minis is less strong as you've got far fewer SFRPG players, and SF tabletop stuff is more stongly IP based, or smaller skirmish
but even given that (and the significant number of normal zombicide backers that don't like the aesthetic of the base game) I think you'll be surprised how far this one goes in total
This campaign has had two IP issues already- not-MIB Agent J was removed and not-Vasquez from Aliens (it is believed) repositioned to a less infringing pose.
Appears much easier to get away with parodying sci-fi characters in a fantasy setting than a sci-fi setting.
Anyone know if the other ZCide KS had similar issues?
Popsghostly wrote: This campaign has had two IP issues already- not-MIB Agent J was removed and not-Vasquez from Aliens (it is believed) repositioned to a less infringing pose.
Appears much easier to get away with parodying sci-fi characters in a fantasy setting than a sci-fi setting.
Anyone know if the other ZCide KS had similar issues?
I believe they had issues with a Kill Bill inspired mini and Pulp Fiction inspired mini in the original zombicide.
Not sure about others (though I am sure there have been).
Add dissatisfaction with the base game sculpts to the list. I imagine there's going to be a whiteboard in the CMON meeting room why this project made so much less than two previous Zombicides.
Invader: Trending to 2.8M
Green Horde: 5M
Black Plague: 4M
S3: 2.8M
S2: 2.2M
S1: .8M
The characters are excellent for smaller scale skirmish games like Scrappers and Rogue Stars (by Osprey Games). A friend who doesn't do miniature wargames was interest in Frostgrave after buying Gaslands (to play with his young son), monsters/adventurers aplenty from Heroquest, Descent and Zombicide Black Plague... These kinds of 'mini' games are great, at €10-€15 you can have a whole new fun game where you can reuse your minis. Hell, I suspect you could even play Necromunda or Space Hulk with these.
I suspect that these 'cheap' KS with good minis by CMoN and the like will become more and more popular due to the multiple uses the minis have.
ced1106 wrote: Add dissatisfaction with the base game sculpts to the list. I imagine there's going to be a whiteboard in the CMON meeting room why this project made so much less than two previous Zombicides.
Invader: Trending to 2.8M => 24 days
Green Horde: 5M => 30 days
Black Plague: 4M => 30 days
S3: 2.8M => 30 days
S2: 2.2M => 30 days
S1: .8M => 30 days
That's because the others are 25% longer then all the others.
Why shorter? Maybe CMoN is looking at less stretch goals, less products for retail, just experimenting, or the team is going on vacation next week...
ced1106 wrote: Add dissatisfaction with the base game sculpts to the list. I imagine there's going to be a whiteboard in the CMON meeting room why this project made so much less than two previous Zombicides.
Invader: Trending to 2.8M
Green Horde: 5M
Black Plague: 4M
S3: 2.8M
S2: 2.2M
S1: .8M
Yeah you missed what the data was saying.
Its making money at a faster rate than S1, S2, S3 and BP.
The only reason it won't surpass the final total of BP is because of length.
You would think.it would be worth their while to.run it for another 6 days if that nets them another million dollars. Unless of course they think they can make up that extra revenue through post KS sales.
For big, established Kickstarters like CMON runs most of the money comes in during the first 3 days and the last 3 days. Especially now that they always do late pledges and $1 pledges it makes very little difference how long the campaign lasts.
Flinty wrote: You would think.it would be worth their while to.run it for another 6 days if that nets them another million dollars. Unless of course they think they can make up that extra revenue through post KS sales.
End date is locked in at the start they can't change that now, they've made their choice with the length. I don't think 30 days versus 24 days would make much difference to the funding total the first and last 2 days are all that really matters the bit in the middle is just your "advertising" time and most people who are interested in CMON KS already now about them in advance. Kicktraq us trending towards $2.8 million but cannot take into account last 48 hours upswing so it will end higher than the trend probably headed for $3.2 million which is less than the $3.5m to $4m range it was initially in.
EDIT actually Massive Darkness picked up $1m in the last 3 days and this has been closest to that in funding terms so I'd revise that up to $3.3 to $3.4 million (black Plague got $1.2 million in the last 3 days and GH got $1.35m)
It is true that one offs are much less useful in sci-fi than in fantasy. I am really surprised that we haven't seen some sort of generic soldier add-on for people to get a bucket of alternative Galactic Marines for use in a grimdark IP.
I was in originally for a Soldier pledge plus extras, but I think I'll drop down to a bare Civilian pledge since none of the Soldier extras come in big enough numbers to be useful for anything. One random Brood mother just won't change the game to being more of a "Soldiers vs alien fauna" game ala Xenoshift.
Gallahad wrote: It is true that one offs are much less useful in sci-fi than in fantasy. I am really surprised that we haven't seen some sort of generic soldier add-on for people to get a bucket of alternative Galactic Marines for use in a grimdark IP.
I was in originally for a Soldier pledge plus extras, but I think I'll drop down to a bare Civilian pledge since none of the Soldier extras come in big enough numbers to be useful for anything. One random Brood mother just won't change the game to being more of a "Soldiers vs alien fauna" game ala Xenoshift.
I'm not that familiar with Infinity but it seems like the Invaderminis would make a good few forces for that. Odd mixes of hyper tech super armour and specialist hacker types wearing tights and a crop top.
I'm not that familiar with Infinity but it seems like the Invaderminis would make a good few forces for that. Odd mixes of hyper tech super armour and specialist hacker types wearing tights and a crop top.
You could make a really great Nomad's Bakunin group with the Orphans and several stretch goals but nothing else really fits the aesthetic of the game. That being said if you just want to play the game and not care about the look, ya, there's a lot of options here.
While it may be true that Fantasy may be more popular than sci fi (though I am not so sure) we would have a good test-bed if the art direction was the same, the change of it is a big variable to account.
Somehow I feel this kickstarter is like having both the fantasy ones merged together in one KS.
Realistically, we're probably looking at around 3 or so more survivors (probably soldier-pledge level only, and based on recognizable, popular characters) after the widowmaker is unlocked and a final gribbly abomination at 3 million to finish the campaign with a bang. (I'm a little surprised they didn't save the Widowmaker for that, actually.) CMON has released brand new add-on content in the final 48 hours of KS campaigns before, so one last gang, or maybe some sort of new xeno add-on could still happen, too. If they do another gang, I wouldn't mind if it was something with broader sci-fi appeal. Although the Kabuki and Orphans are cool, I sure would like some good ol' fashioned survivor droids (full-on clunky robots, not androids or cyborgs), but I wouldn't be surprised to see CMON do a cyborg circus clown gang instead at this point. If they don't do any more gangs, and this ends up being Zombicide's one and only foray into sci-fi, then they sure left a lot of prime genre staples untouched.
That will probably be about it for the final 48 unless this campaign somehow rockets much further past 3 million than anyone currently expects. Not bad, but I would've liked to see a few more original xenos and some KS exclusive survivors added to Dark Side. At the moment the Civilian pledge gets you the Invader base pledge and a slew of extras. Dark Side gets you a base game and some extras for $90, but aside from being "limited" and having better looking xenos (who don't dance or have to go potty really bad), it's not nearly as good a deal as Civilian for $100.
On the other hand, although CMON could eventually release Dark Side to retail with additional "retail-exclusive" poses to replace the KS exclusive alternate posed driller workers, hunters, etc.(as Mantic sometimes does), they most likely won't. Black Plague went to retail (and KS) with just two different poses for its fatties and runners. So if you like the Dark Side sculpts enough to want more variety, it'd be better to get them through the KS than wait for a discounted retail release. (Not to mention that Dark Side is, as Homer Simpson would yelp, "LIMITED!", but that's a dumb, manipulative gimmick.)
Popsghostly wrote: This campaign has had two IP issues already- not-MIB Agent J was removed and not-Vasquez from Aliens (it is believed) repositioned to a less infringing pose.
Appears much easier to get away with parodying sci-fi characters in a fantasy setting than a sci-fi setting.
Anyone know if the other ZCide KS had similar issues?
I believe they had issues with a Kill Bill inspired mini and Pulp Fiction inspired mini in the original zombicide.
Not sure about others (though I am sure there have been).
Yeah, Season 1 had those issues.
I assumed the Vazquez mini was changed because they saw folks wanted more action poses... Regardless of the reason, I'l glad to get the action pose.
Popsghostly wrote: This campaign has had two IP issues already- not-MIB Agent J was removed and not-Vasquez from Aliens (it is believed) repositioned to a less infringing pose.
Appears much easier to get away with parodying sci-fi characters in a fantasy setting than a sci-fi setting.
Anyone know if the other ZCide KS had similar issues?
I believe they had issues with a Kill Bill inspired mini and Pulp Fiction inspired mini in the original zombicide.
Not sure about others (though I am sure there have been).
Yeah, Season 1 had those issues.
I assumed the Vazquez mini was changed because they saw folks wanted more action poses... Regardless of the reason, I'l glad to get the action pose.
Grim and Jake I was one of the "whiners" who wanted a different pose but a lot on the CMON board assume it was an IP issue rather than a few people asking for a more action pose.
Thanks for letting us know. Wow Kill Bill and Pulp Fiction characters fighting zombies would be cool...
Popsghostly wrote: This campaign has had two IP issues already- not-MIB Agent J was removed and not-Vasquez from Aliens (it is believed) repositioned to a less infringing pose.
Appears much easier to get away with parodying sci-fi characters in a fantasy setting than a sci-fi setting.
Anyone know if the other ZCide KS had similar issues?
I believe they had issues with a Kill Bill inspired mini and Pulp Fiction inspired mini in the original zombicide.
Not sure about others (though I am sure there have been).
Yeah, Season 1 had those issues.
I assumed the Vazquez mini was changed because they saw folks wanted more action poses... Regardless of the reason, I'l glad to get the action pose.
Grim and Jake I was one of the "whiners" who wanted a different pose but a lot on the CMON board assume it was an IP issue rather than a few people asking for a more action pose.
Thanks for letting us know. Wow Kill Bill and Pulp Fiction characters fighting zombies would be cool...
Jumping into this conversation late, because I haven't had time to focus on the campaign the last few days. For the Jay MiB model that was removed, was it replaced with something? I was aware of the not-Vasquez pose change, but missed the issue with the Jay model.
Popsghostly wrote: This campaign has had two IP issues already- not-MIB Agent J was removed and not-Vasquez from Aliens (it is believed) repositioned to a less infringing pose.
Appears much easier to get away with parodying sci-fi characters in a fantasy setting than a sci-fi setting.
Anyone know if the other ZCide KS had similar issues?
I believe they had issues with a Kill Bill inspired mini and Pulp Fiction inspired mini in the original zombicide.
Not sure about others (though I am sure there have been).
Yeah, Season 1 had those issues.
I assumed the Vazquez mini was changed because they saw folks wanted more action poses... Regardless of the reason, I'l glad to get the action pose.
Grim and Jake I was one of the "whiners" who wanted a different pose but a lot on the CMON board assume it was an IP issue rather than a few people asking for a more action pose.
Thanks for letting us know. Wow Kill Bill and Pulp Fiction characters fighting zombies would be cool...
Jumping into this conversation late, because I haven't had time to focus on the campaign the last few days. For the Jay MiB model that was removed, was it replaced with something? I was aware of the not-Vasquez pose change, but missed the issue with the Jay model.
That Xenium horror is another great reminder of how terrible the base game abomination is. Also, good to see somebody is exited about the floating fat man homage stretch goal.
With only nine hours left in the second to last day of this kickstarter, they've raised a little less than $100K. The second to last day of Massive Darkness they raised $350K. Is there a chance they raise 250K over the next nine hours? Sure. But I don't think this one has much more gas in the tank.
Gallahad wrote: With only nine hours left in the second to last day of this kickstarter, they've raised a little less than $100K. The second to last day of Massive Darkness they raised $350K. Is there a chance they raise 250K over the next nine hours? Sure. But I don't think this one has much more gas in the tank.
They've done roughly $200K in the last 24 hours though... Maybe it'll ramp up for the last 36 hours...
The addition of the counter base pack suggests they are pretty much out of add ons (waits to be proved wrong) CMON generally don’t do add ons on the last day so it’s today or that’s it.
Also worth remembering Chinese retail pledges haven’t been added to the total yet this was done on the last day of HATE and unlocked an extra tribe for all. So there might be another set of minis that could have been an add on waiting to be unlocked by Chinese pledges.
DaveC wrote: The addition of the counter base pack suggests they are pretty much out of add ons (waits to be proved wrong) CMON generally don’t do add ons on the last day so it’s today or that’s it.
Also worth remembering Chinese retail pledges haven’t been added to the total yet this was done on the last day of HATE and unlocked an extra tribe for all. So there might be another set of minis that could have been an add on waiting to be unlocked by Chinese pledges.
I'd really like this to be the case.
Speaking there are no Chinese survivors at all yet (however, two of the Kabuki gang have Chinese names) maybe they'll unlock a Chinese survivor or two.
It does.semm all vaguely anticlimactic so.far. al2ays happy.to.get additional.stuff but the last few unlocks have been underwhelming. Now instead of not ruby rhod it had been Cat, that would have been a different story
Mysterio wrote: "Counter Base Set" is an easy pass, so I don't think that's going to move the needle much at all.
Sad...
If they wanted to move the needle, they would have offered a "Miner" pledge that starts with Dark Side as the core, and adds the Survivor Pack to it.
As it is, they've locked out almost everybody who only wants Dark Side but doesn't want Invader. Huge mistake by not leading with Dark Side as a parallel pledge.
Or they could have used the more popular characters from borderlands instead of using the claptrap.
And this is were this one fails majorly in its conception, it is sci fi but instead of drawing from were sci fi is popular, video games and comics it draws from sci fi movies that are not so popular.
They could have payed homages to mass effect, starcraft, boderlands, gears of war, destiny, titanfall, ghost in the shell even Anthem and count the millions.
Seriously a not mass effect crew and a not GITS crew alone could have brought in the same amount of money, femshep and Motoko alone could bring 1/4th.
Yeah. The choice of Dune, 5th element and blade Runner are pretty niche, if quite nicely done. I wonder if the problem was that half of the stuff had to have the slab armoured aesthetic of the troopers limiting the opportunity to do sleeker armoured designs linked to famous IPs.
A mini titan would have been awesome
On the other hand they may have also run into more aggressive cease and desist orders from the game and comic property owners. No star wars or star trek you notice and the MIB take off got nixed as well.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Or they could have used the more popular characters from borderlands instead of using the claptrap.
And this is were this one fails majorly in its conception, it is sci fi but instead of drawing from were sci fi is popular, video games and comics it draws from sci fi movies that are not so popular.
They could have payed homages to mass effect, starcraft, boderlands, gears of war, destiny, titanfall, ghost in the shell even Anthem and count the millions.
Seriously a not mass effect crew and a not GITS crew alone could have brought in the same amount of money, femshep and Motoko alone could bring 1/4th.
Today I learned science fiction movies like Aliens, Dune, Back to the Future, Fifth Element, District 9, and Blade Runner are less iconic sci-fi fixtures than Titanfall, GoW and Starcraft.
Gosh your posts are amusing! Do you really believe this crap or are you just wish listing again?
And there are comic references in there. I will give you there could be a few more anime references, but the sci-fi CMON is paying tribute to is largely foundation works that are known, and if not loved, at least recognized by most sci-fi fans. Pay me $100 and I couldn't tell you what Anthem is without Googling it. Damn near anyone interested in sci-fi has heard of Aliens. Or Dune. Or Blade Runner.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Or they could have used the more popular characters from borderlands instead of using the claptrap.
And this is were this one fails majorly in its conception, it is sci fi but instead of drawing from were sci fi is popular, video games and comics it draws from sci fi movies that are not so popular.
They could have payed homages to mass effect, starcraft, boderlands, gears of war, destiny, titanfall, ghost in the shell even Anthem and count the millions.
Seriously a not mass effect crew and a not GITS crew alone could have brought in the same amount of money, femshep and Motoko alone could bring 1/4th.
Damn but that sandwich board has got to be getting uncomfortable by now!
Thankfully the end really is near - amirite?!?
Anyway, I really do want something big and inspirational for that $3M goal ~ let's go CMON!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I'm surprised they haven't had some titanic, humanoid ballsack-chinned homage character with a Destiny Glove.
Well at least they didn't go for fricken Aquaman
I also wonder what is so magical about the atmosphere of the planet that stops bullets from working.
Negativity aside it looks like great fun and I'm just annoyed it will only get here a year after paying for it. I should get some impatience pills or something
PsychoticStorm wrote: Or they could have used the more popular characters from borderlands instead of using the claptrap.
And this is were this one fails majorly in its conception, it is sci fi but instead of drawing from were sci fi is popular, video games and comics it draws from sci fi movies that are not so popular.
They could have payed homages to mass effect, starcraft, boderlands, gears of war, destiny, titanfall, ghost in the shell even Anthem and count the millions.
Seriously a not mass effect crew and a not GITS crew alone could have brought in the same amount of money, femshep and Motoko alone could bring 1/4th.
Today I learned science fiction movies like Aliens, Dune, Back to the Future, Fifth Element, District 9, and Blade Runner are less iconic sci-fi fixtures than Titanfall, GoW and Starcraft.
Gosh your posts are amusing! Do you really believe this crap or are you just wish listing again?
And there are comic references in there. I will give you there could be a few more anime references, but the sci-fi CMON is paying tribute to is largely foundation works that are known, and if not loved, at least recognized by most sci-fi fans. Pay me $100 and I couldn't tell you what Anthem is without Googling it. Damn near anyone interested in sci-fi has heard of Aliens. Or Dune. Or Blade Runner.
You have to take into account the target audience they aim for and what they are more likely to know and what fits with the game.
So what we have from Aliens Vasquez and? most iconic elements from alien are missing and we could have colonial marines instead of powered armour marines, Dune? Baron Harconen is distinct, sandworms more so and more iconic, back to the future is neither relevant to this zombicide, nor I saw many excited by the tribute miniatures, also quite dated IP I do not think most backers have nostalgia feelings about it, Fifth element you have Leeloo and that is what everybody cares about this IP, District 9 is not a widely known movie and has one (ok two if you count the mech) iconic things blade runner has two characters? to draw from and they are "iconic" could be in first zombcide and nobody would notice.
When you do the homage miniatures to bring up sales you either target for big nostalgia especially if the nostalgia models are not done by anybody and currently popular and hot IP, aliens ectr has been serviced quite a lot (but still has potential) while the current sci fi demographic is more infused in computer games and there is a lack of CG IP character models than in the old movies that have no contemporary value, even in the comments you see the calls for Half life ectr.
These should be the IP they should be aiming for, instead they went for 40k and old sci fi IP that are not current.
It is not "wish-listing" it is a pragmatic aproach.
Edit I am not sure if 40k is a conscious approach or just Andrian Smith been Andrian Smith
PsychoticStorm wrote: Or they could have used the more popular characters from borderlands instead of using the claptrap.
And this is were this one fails majorly in its conception, it is sci fi but instead of drawing from were sci fi is popular, video games and comics it draws from sci fi movies that are not so popular.
They could have payed homages to mass effect, starcraft, boderlands, gears of war, destiny, titanfall, ghost in the shell even Anthem and count the millions.
Seriously a not mass effect crew and a not GITS crew alone could have brought in the same amount of money, femshep and Motoko alone could bring 1/4th.
Maybe I’m getting old but I don’t know what borderlands is. I’ve never heard of Destiny, Titanfall or Anthem. I do however, know all about Fifth Element, Back to the Future and Dune. I seriously wonder if the people playing whatever Gears of War is, are really the people likely to drop a couple of hundred dollars on a board game.
Maybe? FFG tried it so it probably has potential, could say Halo instead, but the GoW armour is closer to what they have as art design, Doom would be another hot IP they could have tapped.
PsychoticStorm wrote: Or they could have used the more popular characters from borderlands instead of using the claptrap.
And this is were this one fails majorly in its conception, it is sci fi but instead of drawing from were sci fi is popular, video games and comics it draws from sci fi movies that are not so popular.
They could have payed homages to mass effect, starcraft, boderlands, gears of war, destiny, titanfall, ghost in the shell even Anthem and count the millions.
Seriously a not mass effect crew and a not GITS crew alone could have brought in the same amount of money, femshep and Motoko alone could bring 1/4th.
Today I learned science fiction movies like Aliens, Dune, Back to the Future, Fifth Element, District 9, and Blade Runner are less iconic sci-fi fixtures than Titanfall, GoW and Starcraft.
Gosh your posts are amusing! Do you really believe this crap or are you just wish listing again?
And there are comic references in there. I will give you there could be a few more anime references, but the sci-fi CMON is paying tribute to is largely foundation works that are known, and if not loved, at least recognized by most sci-fi fans. Pay me $100 and I couldn't tell you what Anthem is without Googling it. Damn near anyone interested in sci-fi has heard of Aliens. Or Dune. Or Blade Runner.
You have to take into account the target audience they aim for and what they are more likely to know and what fits with the game.
So what we have from Aliens Vasquez and? most iconic elements from alien are missing and we could have colonial marines instead of powered armour marines, Dune? Baron Harconen is distinct, sandworms more so and more iconic, back to the future is neither relevant to this zombicide, nor I saw many excited by the tribute miniatures, also quite dated IP I do not think most backers have nostalgia feelings about it, Fifth element you have Leeloo and that is what everybody cares about this IP, District 9 is not a widely known movie and has one (ok two if you count the mech) iconic things blade runner has two characters? to draw from and they are "iconic" could be in first zombcide and nobody would notice.
So what? You want them to put all the characters from each movie in the game? A character per movie/book/etc. is often enough to pay homage to that license without the game becoming a cheap knock off of the thing to which an homage is being made. As is we have Ripley and Vasquez from Aliens. The mothxenos look like face huggers, anything else and we start Kickstarting a "not-Aliens" game.
Also, Back to the Future isn't relevant? District 9 is not widely known? And Blade Runner is iconic because of the first Zombicide? See that is where your argument loses me. No, actually those are perfect examples of what has made me scratch my head with a lot of your posts about this campaign. You make grand assertions based on your own preferences. It is annoying and it kills any argument you are attempting to put forth.
PsychoticStorm wrote: When you do the homage miniatures to bring up sales you either target for big nostalgia especially if the nostalgia models are not done by anybody and currently popular and hot IP, aliens ectr has been serviced quite a lot (but still has potential) while the current sci fi demographic is more infused in computer games and there is a lack of CG IP character models than in the old movies that have no contemporary value, even in the comments you see the calls for Half life ectr.
Citation needed. Nearly every year there are block buster/large budget sci-fi movies (not including Star Wars/Trek in that statement), and in the last few years there has been an explosion of great sci-fi television. That doesn't even touch on books and comics either. I don't think it is accurate at all to say that sci-fi fans are more "infused" in video games.
Or they could have used the more popular characters from borderlands instead of using the claptrap.
And this is were this one fails majorly in its conception, it is sci fi but instead of drawing from were sci fi is popular, video games and comics it draws from sci fi movies that are not so popular.
They could have payed homages to mass effect, starcraft, boderlands, gears of war, destiny, titanfall, ghost in the shell even Anthem and count the millions.
Seriously a not mass effect crew and a not GITS crew alone could have brought in the same amount of money, femshep and Motoko alone could bring 1/4th
.
Maybe I’m getting old but I don’t know what borderlands is. I’ve never heard of Destiny, Titanfall or Anthem. I do however, know all about Fifth Element, Back to the Future and Dune. I seriously wonder if the people playing whatever Gears of War is, are really the people likely to drop a couple of hundred dollars on a board game.
And this. Based on the IPs being used in Invader, I'd say the target age group is likely in their 30's-50's. You know, folks who can more easily throw $280+ at a board game like MonkeyBallistic points out.
them as I have plenty of great figs from them I can use and plenty more that just add to the mountain of shame.
. They are going through the motions of all the other seasons, but there isn’t a solid draw yet. I’ve been tempted to buy multiple copies of other seasons to get extras of the models I really like, but nothing here has really grabbed me. Rising sun almost got me just for Godzilla. Green Horde got me for the rest of my Monty Python crew and the giants, trebuchet oh and Dragon 
![](https://ksr-ugc.imgix.net/assets/021/087/254/12d2d2e15de5f8b10c3f0d655615c0d2_original.png?w=639&fit=max&v=1525227345&auto=format&lossless=true&s=d619c2f7ebc85ee700d23872ae491295")
