GaroRobe wrote: Wait is the liche priest only going to be $15 usd? The NZ price is $30, so I’m guessing it’s only half of that
Yup. It's a single human-sized metal model without any bells and whistles, so quite fairly priced imo. The only ray of hope in a sea of darkness when it comes to GW's pricing of metal miniatures.
Well if GW is happy to harm two games just to stop people double dipping with one set of models, more power to them.
Looks like Kirby era bean counters have regained power, maybe they will once again start pursuing their end goal of producing one box of Space Marines per year and selling it for 100 million pounds.
Had not noticed how disappointing the Bretonnian transfers are, just axes and fleur-de-lis. I do not know if it is the NZ dollar confusing my brain but compared to the metals dare I say that some of the resin miniatures are *reasonably* priced?
Ogres, lizardmen and chaos dwarves old models had these racial stereotypes that I guess wont be missed or rereleased by nuGW.
Daemons as a single faction was always a bit offlore and then that whole 7th edition AB made them cancer.
I dont see why Skaven and VC are not released though, they were top sellers IIRC.
My best guess is that GW saw Old World turning into vaporware around 2021 and cut the game in half (size) and forged ahead, skipped kislev and kathai and notions of new models.
I'll just pull up my old Thorek Gunline while you still can get away with being a dick for the first few months (huh, didnt expect it to be that effective bla bla).
triplegrim wrote: Ogres, lizardmen and chaos dwarves old models had these racial stereotypes that I guess wont be missed or rereleased by nuGW.
Daemons as a single faction was always a bit offlore and then that whole 7th edition AB made them cancer.
I dont see why Skaven and VC are not released though, they were top sellers IIRC.
Of those armies Ogres, Lizardmen, Skaven and VC are all being sold by GW right now in AoS. The very same models - heck Lizardmen just got an update; Flesheaters (part of the Death and old VC) also got an update. Heck the Vampire faction is basically most of the Death Grand Alliance spliced out and expanded upon. Meanwhile a reliable rumour source on the AoS forums has suggested that Skaven are set for the next big edition release update for AoS.
So all those armies are in a healthy state - just in a different game. It's clear GW want to avoid, as much as possible, duplicating armies/designs/themes across both games.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: Someone was having a little bit of a laugh when they chose this as a focal image for the box
Wait.... Are those gills on his face?
FISHMEN CONFIRMED FOR TOW! ?
One thing I was surprised about whilst watching the GW batrep was that they decided to stick with Tomb Kings not being able to march their units. It seems like a unit with a character in can choose between several buffs, after passing a leadership test, one of which is d3 extra movement.
To my mind, that's a disappointing choice. I appreciate that the army is no longer held to a slowed movement by the fickle nature of dispel dice, which was a pain in previous editions, but it's still going to be painful when you fail those leadership tests. A small area effect for marching based around characters, or simply removing the no march rules would have been more fun. My will be done could have then had a positive effect, like allowing you to march, even when the enemy was close, instead of simply removing a painful handicap.
I'll wait to see some rules and batreps before I judge it too harshly but it feels like the game designers were stuck in the previous edition rules instead of thinking about player experience.
At the moment I'm really not appreciating the direction of the tomb king launch. Crappy old plastics, a dragon that has no basis in previous lore (that I'm aware of) and shonky rules. I found some nice stls to use, but if the rules aren't fun either, I'm not sure any of my time king minis (new or old) would ever see the table.
Hopefully, in a few hours I can see a few more rules, find that my pessimism was misplaced and I can turn my frown upside down.
Im not terribly familiar with old warhammer, but aside from the Leader on the Pegasus are any of the other units in the starter box new sculpts? And does the USD conversion really come out to $360 USD for old plastic skeletons?
So, how many years with no Kislev or Cathay release before we can finally admit the scope changed from the early announcements and they were cut? 3? 5?
If you don’t expect to see Kislev in 3 to 5 years please also don’t smugly state GW wasn’t pulling a bait and switch, because it’s clear they totally were. Those promised factions were the only reason some of us have kept following this ferkakte thread.
A few minutes until the Australian release. I don't know why they use AWST to define the Australian release time now when only about 10% of the population live in the western timezone and over 80% live in the eastern states.
Anyway... my prediction, the big boxed sets sell out almost instantly at discounters, and hang around for a while at stores that charge full price.
Even more weird since they used to use AEST (or AEDT? I can't remember) until a few years ago, and as far as I can tell the Australian Head Office is still in NSW...
Looks like they are selling out, but not super fast. When other big launches happened the sites that show stock levels they they go from 10's or even 100's of stock to zero in a few minutes, in this case it didn't look like stores had much stock to begin with.
$435AUD for the Bret box, $490AUD for the TK one.
I'll be sitting this one out though.
I would like a set of dice, mainly to get another artillery dice... but $74 for a set of 20 dice? Ouch. Don't want them THAT much.
“Magnus the Pious isn’t a featured character just yet,”
…it looks like the timeline will eventually advance to the Great War against Chaos. That’s 100 years from where The Old World is starting out at. So maybe the plan is to do with those other armies what they did with the Cities of Sigmar? Redo the army into AOS style and then shuffle the older models back over to TOW once the new range can stand on its own two feet?
For instance, Skaven are supposed to be the big starter army for AOS 4th edition. That would be a good opportunity to redo the whole army. Once they’ve done that, there’s no need to hang on to the older sculpts, and they can go be moved over to TOW. As they’ve indicated, they’re moving up to the Great War, and that’s the time period when the Skaven come back out and make their presence felt again. So that would actually be a perfect time to reintroduce them as a playable army. The Lizardmen, likewise, recently got a huge range refresh for AOS. So maybe we might see their return with their older models sooner than later?
Chopxsticks wrote: Im not terribly familiar with old warhammer, but aside from the Leader on the Pegasus are any of the other units in the starter box new sculpts?
For Bretonnians? No. They couldn't possibly have made any more new models, as this is a brand new and completely original game, and no one currently at GW knows how to sculpt comparatively grounded fantasy models any more. Or so I've been told.
Chopxsticks wrote: And does the USD conversion really come out to $360 USD for old plastic skeletons?
Yup. Nostalgia is expensive, apparently.
Cyel wrote: I am currently watching the battle report from GW and it doesn't look too great. It looks like they move units pretty quickly and then the dice autopilot turns on and they roll and roll and re-roll, and roll again, charge range, fear tests, hits, wounds, saves, regeneration, wards... Looks terribly boring tbh to see a game where players are needed for like 20% of playing time, and the rest of the time they just perform the menial role of being living random number generators for the game.
Hmm not surprised at all that in Aus not even 20mins in and can't seem to find any online retailers I normally use have any Old World left. For all the talk and doubts etc they really did go quick. FOMO is strong with this release.
Even though I calculated prices from other GW stores world wide with their currencies, USA and UK, there were a few kits that were priced higher than expected. I wonder if this is another little stealth price increase or just what I will now call 'the nostalgia tax'.
Anyway like many I now wonder how long reprints take and wave 2 with the foot knights and trebuchet etc.
lost_lilliputian wrote: Hmm not surprised at all that in Aus not even 20mins in and can't seem to find any online retailers I normally use have any Old World left. For all the talk and doubts etc they really did go quick. FOMO is strong with this release.
It's always hard to say how much is FOMO and how much is just low stock levels. It didn't seem like they were selling fast, just that there wasn't much there to begin with.
Books have gone, the boxed sets are still available on some sites I frequent.
When I checked The Combat Company a few minutes after launch, they still had 7 sets of Bretonnian boxes, and it took maybe 10 minutes for those 7 sets to disappear. They still have 6 sets of the Tomb Kings 55 minutes after release (had 21 when I first checked). Given the volume that TCC sells, I don't think this is particularly exceptionally fast sales. I believe them and GapGames are the two largest etailers out here.
An interesting one is 3 different stores I checked that I've bought from in the past don't even have them listed? As in, not sold out, but never even put up. Maybe the site operators are on holidays or something, lol, a lot of Australians take holidays around this time. That might certainly contribute to other online stores selling out faster.
The actual GW site itself still had stock of everything when I last checked, but I tried to check again and got dumped back into a queue.
EDIT: Just got in on the GW site again, an hour after launch and nothing has sold out on the official store. So I doubt they're moving huge volumes of stock. Legions Imperialis started running out faster than that (though I'd think LI also was suffering from low stock levels). It's certainly not like Leviathan where was literally hundreds of boxes on online retailers that disappeared in minutes. Though it is hard to compare, because in the case of Leviathan several places didn't honour their pre-pre-order-reservations, though it gives some indication of the order of magnitude we're talking about.
lost_lilliputian wrote: Hmm not surprised at all that in Aus not even 20mins in and can't seem to find any online retailers I normally use have any Old World left. For all the talk and doubts etc they really did go quick. FOMO is strong with this release.
Even though I calculated prices from other GW stores world wide with their currencies, USA and UK, there were a few kits that were priced higher than expected. I wonder if this is another little stealth price increase or just what I will now call 'the nostalgia tax'.
Anyway like many I now wonder how long reprints take and wave 2 with the foot knights and trebuchet etc.
Mperor still has some Tomb Kings and Bret models left if you're quick, but all the books and the Bret Box are already sold out
^Possibly low stock levels, or short supplies as much as FOMO agreed.
Sometimes there's delays with online sites available quantities left, regardless The Combat Company has no Bretonnian boxes left. I'm not really worried if they sold out in the first five minutes or if it took ten minutes, they still sold out. People are prepared to pay huge amounts for this product line, even more so than other GW games.
I do believe though The Combat Company does a pre-order pre-order for customers interested, they take details through their Facebook page before they even put what stock they have online. Meaning possibly the available stock online at launch is less because they've already allocated some to their regular customers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That queue system is pretty frustrating at times.
Just wondered, is this the first time a launch (re-launch) rulebook sold out online?
I don't know if currently GW has any left but the online retailers seem to have no books left.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: EDIT: Just got in on the GW site again, an hour after launch and nothing has sold out on the official store. So I doubt they're moving huge volumes of stock. Legions Imperialis started running out faster than that (though I'd think LI also was suffering from low stock levels). It's certainly not like Leviathan where was literally hundreds of boxes on online retailers that disappeared in minutes. Though it is hard to compare, because in the case of Leviathan several places didn't honour their pre-pre-order-reservations, though it gives some indication of the order of magnitude we're talking about
Given GW said they'd make additional sets as required, I wouldn't be shocked if pre-orders were left open even if all the stock was sold already.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: EDIT: Just got in on the GW site again, an hour after launch and nothing has sold out on the official store. So I doubt they're moving huge volumes of stock. Legions Imperialis started running out faster than that (though I'd think LI also was suffering from low stock levels). It's certainly not like Leviathan where was literally hundreds of boxes on online retailers that disappeared in minutes. Though it is hard to compare, because in the case of Leviathan several places didn't honour their pre-pre-order-reservations, though it gives some indication of the order of magnitude we're talking about
Given GW said they'd make additional sets as required, I wouldn't be shocked if pre-orders were left open even if all the stock was sold already.
Historically when GW have done something like that, they go out of stock when the physical stock goes, then they go back up with the preorder description changed from "preorder ships <insert date for next week>" to a message saying preorders may ship in as much as 180 days (or whatever). Currently, the Bret box still says shipping on the 10th, so I'm going to guess they're still selling physical stock rather than MTO.
Although, the new GW site is very crap, maybe you're right and they just haven't updated the date. I'd be pretty unhappy if I preordered something with a date of the 10th, my card was charged, then I was told it'll be 6 months.
I wont be surprised if a lot of stuff sells out. There are plenty of Tomb King and Bretonnia fanboysandgirls out there, and there are plenty of models in both ranges that people would want for other purposes and conversions as well.
There's also plenty of people that will use this as an opportunity to finish off collections that have been collecting dust since 8th edition WHFB so they can continue playing their chosen version of WHFB with their chosen faction.
The big question that we will never know is: how much was produced and will GW see it as a success? The answers are probably "not much" and "yes" regardless of anyone's personal feelings.
drbored wrote: The big question that we will never know is: how much was produced and will GW see it as a success? The answers are probably "not much" and "yes" regardless of anyone's personal feelings.
It's really hard to say. But when Leviathan came out, I made this post in the 40k thread....
Managed to get one (a Leviathan set) from an online store (the combat company) at a little more than 20% off, but it went from ~100 available to 0 available in a minute or so. Gap Games was funny, saw 600+ available when I first clicked on it, refreshed a few seconds later and it was 300 available, a minute or two later and it was gone. Several other online stores went straight to "sold out" as soon as they refreshed.
This is in spite of those stores having limits of 1 per customer.
So when TCC had 21 sets of TK remaining a few minutes after launch, and an hour later they still had 6 sets (sold out now though) and took 10 minutes to sell the 7 remaining sets of Bretonnian sets... we're talking 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less sales than Leviathan. Of course I don't expect TOW to sell as much as Leviathan, but 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less? I don't think we're talking big numbers of kits being shifted.
It is interesting that GW listed The Old World as a main game on their website instead of "Other Game" like they did with Legions Imperialis.
Remember that Brets and TK were among the least popular WHFB factions, so... it might just be that all the TWW hype hasn't moved the needle.
Actuve wrote: I am not going to assume Beasts are going anywhere for the time being. Removing them from AoS seems like a terrible move.
White fang seemed to say that this was where things were heading on TGA, also said chorfs coming next edition of AoS.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, how many years with no Kislev or Cathay release before we can finally admit the scope changed from the early announcements and they were cut? 3? 5?
If you don’t expect to see Kislev in 3 to 5 years please also don’t smugly state GW wasn’t pulling a bait and switch, because it’s clear they totally were. Those promised factions were the only reason some of us have kept following this ferkakte thread.
“Magnus the Pious isn’t a featured character just yet,”
…it looks like the timeline will eventually advance to the Great War against Chaos. That’s 100 years from where The Old World is starting out at. So maybe the plan is to do with those other armies what they did with the Cities of Sigmar? Redo the army into AOS style and then shuffle the older models back over to TOW once the new range can stand on its own two feet?
For instance, Skaven are supposed to be the big starter army for AOS 4th edition. That would be a good opportunity to redo the whole army. Once they’ve done that, there’s no need to hang on to the older sculpts, and they can go be moved over to TOW. As they’ve indicated, they’re moving up to the Great War, and that’s the time period when the Skaven come back out and make their presence felt again. So that would actually be a perfect time to reintroduce them as a playable army. The Lizardmen, likewise, recently got a huge range refresh for AOS. So maybe we might see their return with their older models sooner than later?
The start date is 25 yrs prior, but the times pan of the narrative era they are playing in starts 75 years befire that. They were quite clear the plan is not to work towards the Great War, and instead to hop around and cover a bunch of events, and that the great War is a long way off and not coming anytime soon.
drbored wrote: The big question that we will never know is: how much was produced and will GW see it as a success? The answers are probably "not much" and "yes" regardless of anyone's personal feelings.
It's really hard to say. But when Leviathan came out, I made this post in the 40k thread....
Managed to get one (a Leviathan set) from an online store (the combat company) at a little more than 20% off, but it went from ~100 available to 0 available in a minute or so. Gap Games was funny, saw 600+ available when I first clicked on it, refreshed a few seconds later and it was 300 available, a minute or two later and it was gone. Several other online stores went straight to "sold out" as soon as they refreshed.
This is in spite of those stores having limits of 1 per customer.
So when TCC had 21 sets of TK remaining a few minutes after launch, and an hour later they still had 6 sets (sold out now though) and took 10 minutes to sell the 7 remaining sets of Bretonnian sets... we're talking 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less sales than Leviathan. Of course I don't expect TOW to sell as much as Leviathan, but 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less? I don't think we're talking big numbers of kits being shifted.
It is interesting that GW listed The Old World as a main game on their website instead of "Other Game" like they did with Legions Imperialis.
Not a bad way to get a temperature on things, but as long as the stuff sells out, it's a success. It means GW and many of their trade accounts went through all the stock they produced within a day or even a weekend. That all looks good on paper. Now, the big tell will be if many physical locations get a bunch of boxes of stuff and then they... sit on them.
My local store does a lot of volume of just about everything, but we still have a couple of Flesh Eater Courts Launch Boxes on the wall that don't seem to want to move. Eventually, they will sell, but it's one of those hints that the demand outside of potentially scalpers and hardcore fans might not be there.
That's been the case with many of the AoS sets, at least in the US. It seems they do better in the UK (or GW comparatively underallocates to the UK vs the US).
As a temperature check though, it really depends how GW forecasts sales and scales production. I'd like to assume that based on industry norms and GWs own known means of operating and expected ROI horizons that their initial production wave is meant to achieve initial profitability for a new product launch, but sometimes the estimated numbers on these launch waves just seem suspiciously low
Ok I am genuinely sick of GW's site (haven't really had the need to use it until now), what a mess to navigate. This is beating a dead horse, but I genuinely thought nothing would make me miss the previous one.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Ok I am genuinely sick of GW's site (haven't really had the need to use it until now), what a mess to navigate. This is beating a dead horse, but I genuinely thought nothing would make me miss the previous one.
It is truly awful. I too miss the pretty bad iteration before this one.
Yeah, I still find the gw site less intuitive, less functional, less convenient, more difficult to navigate, etc than what it replaced. Honestly, as a long time customer I have a lot of difficulty finding anything on it, browsing seems almost nonexistent as a function, etc. I can't imagine how a new less experienced customer would be able to research the product range and find things to purchase on it.
They apparently have an (overpriced) map of the Empire, Bret & the Badlands online, but you'd only know about it if you went to the terribly organised "New & Exclusives" tab or if it appeared in the "Related Items" section of something you're looking at.
Spent a while trying to see if I could find it elsewhere out of curiousity when I discovered it - couldn't find it anywhere else on the store
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, how many years with no Kislev or Cathay release before we can finally admit the scope changed from the early announcements and they were cut? 3? 5?
If you don’t expect to see Kislev in 3 to 5 years please also don’t smugly state GW wasn’t pulling a bait and switch, because it’s clear they totally were. Those promised factions were the only reason some of us have kept following this ferkakte thread.
They never promised them on launch. If you were silly enough to lnvent such promise out of your head that's on you. You don't command gw.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Looks like they are selling out, but not super fast. When other big launches happened the sites that show stock levels they they go from 10's or even 100's of stock to zero in a few minutes, in this case it didn't look like stores had much stock to begin with.
$435AUD for the Bret box, $490AUD for the TK one.
I'll be sitting this one out though.
I would like a set of dice, mainly to get another artillery dice... but $74 for a set of 20 dice? Ouch. Don't want them THAT much.
Dunno. Thanks to queue leviathan was available for hours
drbored wrote: The big question that we will never know is: how much was produced and will GW see it as a success? The answers are probably "not much" and "yes" regardless of anyone's personal feelings.
It's really hard to say. But when Leviathan came out, I made this post in the 40k thread....
Managed to get one (a Leviathan set) from an online store (the combat company) at a little more than 20% off, but it went from ~100 available to 0 available in a minute or so. Gap Games was funny, saw 600+ available when I first clicked on it, refreshed a few seconds later and it was 300 available, a minute or two later and it was gone. Several other online stores went straight to "sold out" as soon as they refreshed.
This is in spite of those stores having limits of 1 per customer.
So when TCC had 21 sets of TK remaining a few minutes after launch, and an hour later they still had 6 sets (sold out now though) and took 10 minutes to sell the 7 remaining sets of Bretonnian sets... we're talking 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less sales than Leviathan. Of course I don't expect TOW to sell as much as Leviathan, but 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less? I don't think we're talking big numbers of kits being shifted.
It is interesting that GW listed The Old World as a main game on their website instead of "Other Game" like they did with Legions Imperialis.
Everything it sells an order of magnitude less than 40k, no point in comparing to it
I think there is also a bit of extra hesitancy surrounding this than Leviathan. Most people in 9th were going to jump to 10th due to it being the new supported 40k edition and would 100% be massively played so not much of a reason not jump into it.
Even if I would be interested in both bretonnia and TK, and I am (I bought a huge Empire of Dust army cause i missed out on TK before), I am not going to buy anything from GW until I have tried the rules and been able to accurately gauge the interest locally. Might be that the people who play the old editions, 9th age or KoW jump over to this after trying it out and the community is once again united in playing a single version of the game and people who have been hesitant to start now joins in as well. If that is the case I will start spending money but if not I will just continue to play mesbg and once a year dust of my old wfb 7th empire army and play a game of KoW/9th/WFB before putting it back on the shelf.
I know a few others at the club that is in the same situation. We are hesitant and hope it is good but we won't splurge until we feel confident that it is worth. We have been burned badly by GW before when it comes to this.
It is obviously too early to gauge success or failure regarding TOW. However, there are a number of issues I see for trying to get new and younger players into the system:
1. Mixed plastic/resin/metal armies. To us older hobbyists it is mostly not an issue but to younger ones metal miniatures, and to a lesser extent resin, is a scary and unknown prospect. If all you have ever dealt with is sprued plastic a new material that requires new techniques to deal with construction could be seen as a barrier to entry. Then you see the cost of this "exotic" material...ouch.
2. Potential opponents/WHFB fans already have a head start with old armies and entire collections of miniatures. That is a scary prospect to try and catch up with in terms of time and expense. If all your opponents have to do is rebase and buy and paint the odd new character or unit you are going to have to really invest time into it.
3. A catch all for old and new players, it is literally the worst possible time financially to be launching a new game. Post Christmas and New Year, at a time when a lot of people live paycheck to paycheck a financial investment of probably hundred(s) of whatever your currency is may be a stretch in the first weeks of January. Obviously the truly hyped will have been budgeting and saved but that is a luxury that a lot of people do not have.
That said still very early, I hope this succeeds long term as I think that Warhammer is a lot richer with a form of old school Fantasy Battles around.
TwilightSparkles wrote: GW haters “there’s not much demand for this”
Gw website “I’ll hold your beer whilst you join the queue for the queue for the website, cheers”
?
GW's website: is a nonfunctional piece of gak
GW fanboys: "This just means it's too popular!"
As I posted earlier, from what I've heard from retailers, stock is low, and I expect to sell out a lot of products this weekend, like with the Legions Imperialis release.
As I posted earlier, from what I've heard from retailers, stock is low, and I expect to sell out a lot of products this weekend, like with the Legions Imperialis release.
Great work as ever Stahly. No Bretonnian set for you then? A shame they could not get some of the new minis out to you.
As I posted earlier, from what I've heard from retailers, stock is low, and I expect to sell out a lot of products this weekend, like with the Legions Imperialis release.
Could you please post here (or on your website) the high res pics of all skeletons (on foot) sprues?
As I posted earlier, from what I've heard from retailers, stock is low, and I expect to sell out a lot of products this weekend, like with the Legions Imperialis release.
Great work as ever Stahly. No Bretonnian set for you then? A shame they could not get some of the new minis out to you.
No, just the Tomb Kings. But next week I'll post a closer look at the book and all of its section
Weird that the dice were not discounted from them. Travelling Man still have most dice in stock at the time of writing and even with shipping is less than Wayland or GW at full RRP.
I didn't realise the cards were direct only. That's the only reason I'm sat in GW's stupid queue yet. I've been in it since it opened at twenty to ten ish - still estimating I'll get in at 10:47.
What a joke. God help us when something like The End and the Death volume 3 ships.
Weird that the dice were not discounted from them. Travelling Man still have most dice in stock at the time of writing and even with shipping is less than Wayland or GW at full RRP.
I didn't realise the cards were direct only. That's the only reason I'm sat in GW's stupid queue yet. I've been in it since it opened at twenty to ten ish - still estimating I'll get in at 10:47.
What a joke. God help us when something like The End and the Death volume 3 ships.
Wayland don't seem to have discounted anything of the major releases beyond the books. I got a copy of the Bretonnian box at Firestorm for 10% off and that was the best I could find - we'll see if it actually turns up.
drbored wrote: The big question that we will never know is: how much was produced and will GW see it as a success? The answers are probably "not much" and "yes" regardless of anyone's personal feelings.
It's really hard to say. But when Leviathan came out, I made this post in the 40k thread....
Managed to get one (a Leviathan set) from an online store (the combat company) at a little more than 20% off, but it went from ~100 available to 0 available in a minute or so. Gap Games was funny, saw 600+ available when I first clicked on it, refreshed a few seconds later and it was 300 available, a minute or two later and it was gone. Several other online stores went straight to "sold out" as soon as they refreshed.
This is in spite of those stores having limits of 1 per customer.
So when TCC had 21 sets of TK remaining a few minutes after launch, and an hour later they still had 6 sets (sold out now though) and took 10 minutes to sell the 7 remaining sets of Bretonnian sets... we're talking 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less sales than Leviathan. Of course I don't expect TOW to sell as much as Leviathan, but 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less? I don't think we're talking big numbers of kits being shifted.
It is interesting that GW listed The Old World as a main game on their website instead of "Other Game" like they did with Legions Imperialis.
Everything it sells an order of magnitude less than 40k, no point in comparing to it
I would never expect it to sell more than 40k, but at its peak Warhammer was quite popular in Australia, and we're talking its first edition in almost 14 years, I'd be hoping it to sell reasonably well. It's not like Epic/Legions Imperialis that was only ever a niche within a niche.
It would be interesting to know what the cross section of old WHFB think of the new edition. 8th edition itself was not well received. Would be impossible to know though, because lots of old WHFB players don't frequent forums so it'd be nearly impossible to poll them.
Obviously if GW sell out, then GW can be happy with their results, but selling out I don't think is a great measure of general success as the community might measure it (especially if we're only talking online discounters in Australia where online discounters almost always sell out quickly).
I see the queue is back up again on the GW site, so I guess we'll see how it goes in the rest of the world now.
TwilightSparkles wrote: GW haters “there’s not much demand for this”
Gw website “I’ll hold your beer whilst you join the queue for the queue for the website, cheers”
?
I don't really trust the GW queue system, located on one of the worst designed sites I've seen, is representative of anything much.
Animosity was a big topic a few weeks ago and it's now confirmed that it is gone completely but some Orcs have a rule that they have a 50% chance of being forced to charge if able, and characters mitigate that.
Am I understanding correctly, the starter sets do NOT come with an artillery dice, but the dice sets sold separately do? Does the game use an artillery dice, or no?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Am I understanding correctly, the starter sets do NOT come with an artillery dice, but the dice sets sold separately do? Does the game use an artillery dice, or no?
Nothing in the starter needs one, however it’s likely that artillery will and various races have equivalents to that.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Am I understanding correctly, the starter sets do NOT come with an artillery dice, but the dice sets sold separately do? Does the game use an artillery dice, or no?
Nothing in the starter needs one, however it’s likely that artillery will and various races have equivalents to that.
That's what I figure, it just seems odd they'd have every dice you'd need in the starter except that one, then you need to buy an entire separate dice set to get the 1 extra dice you need.
Were the foot knoghts not part of this week's release? Haven't seen them showing up for order
Shadow Walker wrote: Judging solely from that one pic, it looks like there are only regular gobbos, which could mean night ones are AoS only.
Iirc they gave us base sizes for nightgoblins on fb, so unless there's an orcs and goblins legacy unit pdf that we weren't told about I expect them to show up
chaos0xomega wrote: Were the foot knoghts not part of this week's release? Haven't seen them showing up for order
Shadow Walker wrote: Judging solely from that one pic, it looks like there are only regular gobbos, which could mean night ones are AoS only.
Iirc they gave us base sizes for nightgoblins on fb, so unless there's an orcs and goblins legacy unit pdf that we weren't told about I expect them to show up
The foot knights were called out in their article as not coming this week but coming soon. They were in the price lists weirdly but yeah not this week.
The Phazer wrote:Managed to get a rulebook from Wayland.
Weird that the dice were not discounted from them. Travelling Man still have most dice in stock at the time of writing and even with shipping is less than Wayland or GW at full RRP.
I didn't realise the cards were direct only. That's the only reason I'm sat in GW's stupid queue yet. I've been in it since it opened at twenty to ten ish - still estimating I'll get in at 10:47.
What a joke. God help us when something like The End and the Death volume 3 ships.
That will be the last BL book I bother to order. Been sick of the way they deal with new released for a long time now and spending an hour in a virtual queue for books once ever few months is still more time than I'm willing. I was too far into collecting the SoT series at the point it got to much.
Shadow Walker wrote:Judging solely from that one pic, it looks like there are only regular gobbos, which could mean night ones are AoS only.
I was worried about this, but its been confirmed now that night goblins are there!
Went to the GW site at 9:35. Put in a queue for the queue.
When the queue went live, my time was over an hour. I just got on the store at 11:05am.
Rulebook sold out.
So now a 3 month plus wait for a reprint from China?
Awesome work at p155ing off your customers again GW.
Gimgamgoo wrote: Went to the GW site at 9:35. Put in a queue for the queue.
When the queue went live, my time was over an hour. I just got on the store at 11:05am.
Rulebook sold out.
So now a 3 month plus wait for a reprint from China?
Awesome work at p155ing off your customers again GW.
Far from ideal buy I'm sure that ebay will be awash with them in a fortnight. Also if you have a local Warhammer/GW store they almost always have stock held over to send to their stores. Should you have to do this? Of course not. But if you want the physical book without the inevitable wait for restock then this may be your best bet.
Shadow Walker wrote:Judging solely from that one pic, it looks like there are only regular gobbos, which could mean night ones are AoS only.
I was worried about this, but its been confirmed now that night goblins are there!
Do you mean actual pictures of Night Goblin minis are in the book?
There is artwork and rules for night goblins in ravening hordes. No idea if anything is in colour sections of the mainrule book. But they won't have added rules for anything they don't intend to sell.
Whelp without too much panic grabbed the Brets boxed set of Firestorm Games and the Forces of good book off Wayland.
Can't justify GW's price on dice and I'm not spending near £100 on cards on the GW website. Cards are neat; they are good reference but darn if GW aren't insane with the price on them once you add it up.
I'll likely grab the Brets expansion book at some stage, but I think that's enough to keep me busy.
Shadow Walker wrote:Judging solely from that one pic, it looks like there are only regular gobbos, which could mean night ones are AoS only.
I was worried about this, but its been confirmed now that night goblins are there!
Do you mean actual pictures of Night Goblin minis are in the book?
There is artwork and rules for night goblins in ravening hordes. No idea if anything is in colour sections of the mainrule book. But they won't have added rules for anything they don't intend to sell.
Yeah, it'd be odd to include rules and artwork, but not show models because those are staying in AoS.
Guerilla Miniature Games reviews are up! Knew he had already had everything for awhile since he had specifically mentioned he couldn't do another studio tour because he had too many projects lying around he cant show off yet.
Commodus Leitdorf wrote: Guerilla Miniature Games reviews are up! Knew he had already had everything for awhile since he had specifically mentioned he couldn't do another studio tour because he had too many projects lying around he cant show off yet.
I know what I'm watching today as I paint!
TableTopTime commented they only got it 2 days before release, but they are in Australia so maybe they got it later than folks in other countries.
Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote: …it looks like the timeline will eventually advance to the Great War against Chaos. That’s 100 years from where The Old World is starting out at.
The Great War Against Chaos is in 2301-2304. the game setting starts in 2276. It's 25 years apart.
kodos wrote: units do not block line of sight, models do
That sounds complicated, surely it makes more sense to have units block LOS and then have different unit classes to decide what blocks what? Having models block LOS makes more sense in a video game where the engine handles the hit boxes.
Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote: …it looks like the timeline will eventually advance to the Great War against Chaos. That’s 100 years from where The Old World is starting out at.
The Great War Against Chaos is in 2301-2304. the game setting starts in 2276. It's 25 years apart.
Yes. But also no. As was explained in one of this week's interviews, they are not going linearly forward towards the Great War, and do plan on hopping backwards, as far back as 2201.
kodos wrote: units do not block line of sight, models do
That sounds complicated, surely it makes more sense to have units block LOS and then have different unit classes to decide what blocks what? Having models block LOS makes more sense in a video game where the engine handles the hit boxes.
it is still Warhammer, not Kings of War, you also check for each individual model if it has line of sight to the target to decide if it can shoot or not. Almost everything in GW games is model based, not unit based
Well, that GMG review is confirmation that you can't Army of Infamy your way into a Tomb Kings army that doesnt require you to use the old kits. Was really hoping one of them would let you fill out your core using Tomb Guard or one of the newer kits but no such luck.
Wow! Confirmation that we are getting Forsaken back is awesome. There are so many old kits I regret not picking up before their demise and I am glad to have another shot beyond scouring eBay.
Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote: …it looks like the timeline will eventually advance to the Great War against Chaos. That’s 100 years from where The Old World is starting out at.
The Great War Against Chaos is in 2301-2304. the game setting starts in 2276. It's 25 years apart.
kodos wrote: you can always just buy the tomb guard and use bits from the skeletons to turn them into core infantry (as suggest multiple times on reddit)
That just makes skeletons twice as expensive while still being mediocre
AllSeeingSkink wrote: [
I would never expect it to sell more than 40k, but at its peak Warhammer was quite popular in Australia, and we're talking its first edition in almost 14 years, I'd be hoping it to sell reasonably well. It's not like Epic/Legions Imperialis that was only ever a niche within a niche.
That will be the last BL book I bother to order. Been sick of the way they deal with new released for a long time now and spending an hour in a virtual queue for books once ever few months is still more time than I'm willing. I was too far into collecting the SoT series at the point it got to much.
Well I'm sure whole stock sold to scalpers instead of queue would be so much better
I've got my preorder in with my usual US online supplier for the basics at a discount (Bret box, books, and pegasus standard). Now I've got an alarm set to start checking the GW online store a half hour before launch time, depending on when the queue system turns on. Or do y'all think I should start checking it earlier than that? To this day, selling off my Bretonnians years ago is among my very few gaming regrets, as they were also the original release Bretonnians. Still have all my Dwarves, though.
Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.
Tannhauser42 wrote: I've got my preorder in with my usual US online supplier for the basics at a discount (Bret box, books, and pegasus standard). Now I've got an alarm set to start checking the GW online store a half hour before launch time, depending on when the queue system turns on. Or do y'all think I should start checking it earlier than that? To this day, selling off my Bretonnians years ago is among my very few gaming regrets, as they were also the original release Bretonnians. Still have all my Dwarves, though.
I feel you there. I had a 3,000 point army in 5th Ed. Bret models. Now that I'm back to 6th I have to start every army over except for the 4 armies I didn't sell.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.
Not sure would it be much cheaper to go for whatever resin the FW use?
Looking at Bretonnia specifically, you could pretty easily kitbash most of the metal kits anyway.
Do Grail Knights look all that different than the plastic ones? Stick some fancy gubbins on them and paint them a bit differently.
Heck, in TW: WH the big difference is the Grail Knights have shiny magic lances because you can't actually tell them apart otherwise.
The only real issue I can see is Yeoman Cavalry.
Tomb Kings obviously Ushabti aren't exactly something you can make so that sucks.
Gert wrote: Tomb Kings obviously Ushabti aren't exactly something you can make so that sucks.
One skeleton riding piggyback on another, either with a skeleton archer's equipment or use the spear shaft combined with a random weapon to make a great weapon. When challenged on it, respond that models will become reasonable when prices become reasonable.
Holy gak I just saw the rules for gyrocopters. 60pts/model and can be taken in units of 6! They fly (9) and have a steam gun (breath template that does S3 AP-1). Imagine placing 6 templates over a unit!!
Shadow Walker wrote: Judging solely from that one pic, it looks like there are only regular gobbos, which could mean night ones are AoS only.
Not gonna lie i'll be happy to finally get a box of plain ole vanilla gobbos Dang things never ever seemed to pop up on ebay and if they did they'd be stupidly expensive lol.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.
Because they want to reuse the old models/moulds and everyone hates finecast.
All the new stuff and the larger kits is FW resin.
I think its also because they likely need this project to get into the open and start earning money so that the staff can justify spending on it. Old kits revised taps into the nostalgia element but also likely requires less investment to polish up and get going again than totally new kits.
So if they can get a LOT of armies out at once in a very short span of time compared to trying to get multiple fully new armies out which might well just be pushing the release date further and further away and creating a bigger investment bubble that has to be satisfied.
WorldEdgePlayer wrote: Holy gak I just saw the rules for gyrocopters. 60pts/model and can be taken in units of 6! They fly (9) and have a steam gun (breath template that does S3 AP-1). Imagine placing 6 templates over a unit!!
NinthMusketeer wrote: Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.
Because they want to reuse the old models/moulds and everyone hates finecast.
All the new stuff and the larger kits is FW resin.
Good old Pb82 has held steady for the last 10 years.
Wayniac wrote: The price of the tomb king box 8s ridiculous given most of those are 20+ year old sculpts. More if they never redid the horses.
pricing generally has put me off bothering, not so much the price of the models, I have plenty of them, but the whole pricing means far less likely to get much traction locally so becomes a waste of time bothering
GW changed from lead to a tin based white alloy around 1997, 1998. (Probably because lead a was a wee bit poisonous and they were trying to market to younder audiences. Might also explain my hair loss.)
WorldEdgePlayer wrote: Holy gak I just saw the rules for gyrocopters. 60pts/model and can be taken in units of 6! They fly (9) and have a steam gun (breath template that does S3 AP-1). Imagine placing 6 templates over a unit!!
NinthMusketeer wrote: Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.
Because they want to reuse the old models/moulds and everyone hates finecast.
All the new stuff and the larger kits is FW resin.
Good old Pb82 has held steady for the last 10 years.
WorldEdgePlayer wrote: Black orcs with shields have 3+ armor save. "Look at me. I am the knight now."
I did wonder who all was getting 'full plate.' It got mentioned in the promo video that the dragon had the equivalent of full plate at least a half a dozen times, and that made me start pondering.
The low Initiative armies have to have something with no step up. Not sure trying to tough it out will work, but at least they realized that black orcs (& etc) just wouldn't work without changes
I watched someone at my FLGS order 2 Bret core sets, the new Pegasus bsb, and a handful of characters. So there’s definitely people willing to buy some older kits lol
WorldEdgePlayer wrote: Black orcs with shields have 3+ armor save. "Look at me. I am the knight now."
I did wonder who all was getting 'full plate.' It got mentioned in the promo video that the dragon had the equivalent of full plate at least a half a dozen times, and that made me wonder.
The low Initiative armies have to have something with no step up. Not sure trying to tough it out will work, but at least they realized that black orcs (& etc) just wouldn't work without changes
Black orcs worked before step up was a thing though. When game lethality isn't up the roof front rank doesn't die generally anyway.
1 a, 3+ 3+ stats will generally mean front rank doesnt die(indeed less than half). That's before save. If you don't hit or wound on 3+...
Gert wrote:Looking at Bretonnia specifically, you could pretty easily kitbash most of the metal kits anyway.
Do Grail Knights look all that different than the plastic ones? Stick some fancy gubbins on them and paint them a bit differently.
Heck, in TW: WH the big difference is the Grail Knights have shiny magic lances because you can't actually tell them apart otherwise.
The only real issue I can see is Yeoman Cavalry.
Tomb Kings obviously Ushabti aren't exactly something you can make so that sucks.
I found several STLs of Anubis style statues on thingiverse that could easily work with a little bit of weathering.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Considering the price of tin (major ingredient in pewter) has more or less tripled from 30 years ago I consider GW prices on metal to not be that out of line on one hand, whereas on the other I don't see why they are still producing in metal at all if the cost has gone up so much.
Because they want to reuse the old models/moulds and everyone hates finecast.
All the new stuff and the larger kits is FW resin.
I wonder why they can't make new molds for resin casting. They have the master models and molds for metal casting have to be replaced every so often.
I assume it's a bit of work and the initial investment, but it just seems silly to bother people with metal models when GW effectively dropped the material years ago and only really keeps it around for Lord of the Rings and made to order runs.
GW changed from lead to a tin based white alloy around 1997, 1998. (Probably because lead a was a wee bit poisonous and they were trying to market to younder audiences. Might also explain my hair loss.)
WorldEdgePlayer wrote: Black orcs with shields have 3+ armor save. "Look at me. I am the knight now."
I did wonder who all was getting 'full plate.' It got mentioned in the promo video that the dragon had the equivalent of full plate at least a half a dozen times, and that made me wonder.
The low Initiative armies have to have something with no step up. Not sure trying to tough it out will work, but at least they realized that black orcs (& etc) just wouldn't work without changes
Black orcs worked before step up was a thing though. When game lethality isn't up the roof front rank doesn't die generally anyway.
1 a, 3+ 3+ stats will generally mean front rank doesnt die(indeed less than half). That's before save. If you don't hit or wound on 3+...
I played dark elves and chaos too much in the old days. '1 attack' wasn't ever a thing in my armies, at least not in my real combat units. Frenzy, hydra banner, two hand weapons, etc, etc.
While the price of tin and the other metals used in the pewter mix have gone up, it's only GW that charges astronomical prices for the metal models "just because". Other metal companies like Reaper and the Perry brothers still charge reasonable prices.
Anyway, idiot that I am got busy with lunch and stuff around the house, lost track of time, and now here I am trying to access the GW site 40 minutes after the preorders started, and I currently have an estimated 33 minute wait. Doubt I'll be able to get anything at all from the GW site, so I'll probably have to wait several weeks for the restock. I may swing by the Warhammer Cafe on launch day to see if they have any of the stuff available to the general public.
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zombie_sky_diver wrote: Did I miss something? Are the FW Bret characters not up for pre-order in the US?
You might have to go to the New and Exclusive section to find them separately. Someone mentioned something like that earlier.
Well here is BIG surprise. there are NO savage orcs in O&G army list. There are night goblins and spider goblins but no savage orcs. There goes the rumor that AoS is squating Bonesplitaz.
WorldEdgePlayer wrote: Well here is BIG surprise. there are NO savage orcs in O&G army list. There are night goblins and spider goblins but no savage orcs. There goes the rumor that AoS is squating Bonesplitaz.
I think I heard Savage orcs were an upgrade to the Boar Boyz in the previous video posted here?
There's more than just savage orc boar riders though, they have infantry and a number of other units. Anyway, surprising they went with night and spider gobbos but not fully featured savage orcs.
Had 1 of my Bret boxes tentatively canceled as the retailer I ordered my second box from oversold their inventory and are apparently being told no more will be made or provided, which is contrary to what GW said previously but I guess we'll see what happens.
Yeah, I was imagining the other options might be upgrades to other unit entries in a similar fashion. I don't know where folks are seeing the Army lists and can't really make anything out on the video, so I only know what's read out.
Animosity is gone from the greenskins, but the orcs and goblins (but not night goblins) have mini-frenzy in that they have to declare a charge on a 4+ if in range (impetuous), which the Black Orcs can limit to some degree.
Savage orcs are still in, just under the same entry as regular boyz - you can give regular boyz frenzy which then unlocks the savage orcs weapons like big stikkas etc.
Well, I finally got in to the US webstore. Nothing left I want. But it looks like some stuff was just straight up never available on the US webstore at all. Comparing a search on the word "Bretonnia" between US and UK, we didn't get the mounted Yeomen (just the command), no Handmaiden, no Questing Knight on foot, no dice, and no combo pack of mounted and foot standard bearer.
Holy crap, it's like this website is specifically designed to keep you from finding anything you might want to buy. I can't believe how poorly designed this is - are they trying to drive people away?
Matt.Kingsley wrote: They apparently have an (overpriced) map of the Empire, Bret & the Badlands online, but you'd only know about it if you went to the terribly organised "New & Exclusives" tab or if it appeared in the "Related Items" section of something you're looking at.
Spent a while trying to see if I could find it elsewhere out of curiousity when I discovered it - couldn't find it anywhere else on the store
Map sold out in UK but scalpers on Ebay have it for £75.
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Tannhauser42 wrote: Well, I finally got in to the US webstore. Nothing left I want. But it looks like some stuff was just straight up never available on the US webstore at all. Comparing a search on the word "Bretonnia" between US and UK, we didn't get the mounted Yeomen (just the command), no Handmaiden, no Questing Knight on foot, no dice, and no combo pack of mounted and foot standard bearer.
Thanks so much for wasting my time, GW.
Never fear, no dice left? You can get them on Ebay already for £60 for Brets. Bit more for Tomb Kings
Tannhauser42 wrote: Well, I finally got in to the US webstore. Nothing left I want. But it looks like some stuff was just straight up never available on the US webstore at all. Comparing a search on the word "Bretonnia" between US and UK, we didn't get the mounted Yeomen (just the command), no Handmaiden, no Questing Knight on foot, no dice, and no combo pack of mounted and foot standard bearer.
** These products have been delayed in the USA and Canada. Please note that while the regular Mounted Yeomen are delayed, the Command Squad will be available on schedule – they’re getting the lay of the land early.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Well, I finally got in to the US webstore. Nothing left I want. But it looks like some stuff was just straight up never available on the US webstore at all. Comparing a search on the word "Bretonnia" between US and UK, we didn't get the mounted Yeomen (just the command), no Handmaiden, no Questing Knight on foot, no dice, and no combo pack of mounted and foot standard bearer.
** These products have been delayed in the USA and Canada. Please note that while the regular Mounted Yeomen are delayed, the Command Squad will be available on schedule – they’re getting the lay of the land early.
Was that footnote added later? I don't recall seeing that when it first was posted.
"We are disappointed to report that stock allocations are very low for all products in this release. Therefore we will not be able to offer them for online sale, and will have very limited stock in our physical stores. We have been made aware that most of the products are planned to be restocked in the future, but we haven’t yet been given a firm date.
"
Missing another release yet again. Not sure what to believe now since Christmas army deals ended up online after similar communicate from them back then...
Tannhauser42 wrote: Well, I finally got in to the US webstore. Nothing left I want. But it looks like some stuff was just straight up never available on the US webstore at all. Comparing a search on the word "Bretonnia" between US and UK, we didn't get the mounted Yeomen (just the command), no Handmaiden, no Questing Knight on foot, no dice, and no combo pack of mounted and foot standard bearer.
** These products have been delayed in the USA and Canada. Please note that while the regular Mounted Yeomen are delayed, the Command Squad will be available on schedule – they’re getting the lay of the land early.
Was that footnote added later? I don't recall seeing that when it first was posted.
Don't know. I visited the site shortly after it went online, scrolled down to the Tomb Swarm, saw the too asterisks, scrolled down further to read a comment but it was just the delayed note.
WorldEdgePlayer wrote: Uff. Get your free hopium here. (Also is that just a screen capture shot from the total war game?)
Impossible! I was told they changed their plans and Cathay were no longer going to be in the game because if GW doesn't mention it every other sentence it means it's canceled!
Geifer wrote: I wonder why they can't make new molds for resin casting. They have the master models and molds for metal casting have to be replaced every so often.
I assume it's a bit of work and the initial investment, but it just seems silly to bother people with metal models when GW effectively dropped the material years ago and only really keeps it around for Lord of the Rings and made to order runs.
My guess is that when they did that (with the Finecast models) their sales suffered. The Old World is obviously intended to appeal to the older gaming demographic who came up when metal models were popular. Personally, I dislike resin models and usually avoid them, but would be happy to buy metal castings of old miniatures from GW that I want for my collection. I'd love to finish my collection of Jes Goodwin ogres, for example, but I wouldn't even consider buying resin castings of those figures.
For me I don't even know if its FOMO or Nostalgia. I never really wanted a knights in armour army way back when Brets were on sale. If anything they were the army I had some of the least interest in at the time as they didn't have many "fantasy" things in them. Almost no fantasy monsters or mounts and what few they had were taken in small numbers. They were almost the most "realistic" army of all the Old World with their knights, serfs, peasants and soforth.
I've had a chat with my FLGS manager today and he says basically it's all FOMO. People have a "wait and see" attitude until the moment that product shortages are reported, and then everybody needs one right now.
Is that Cathay art actually a reuse of a video game asset?
If we see Cathay minis released in the next year, I’ll admit I was wrong. They were some of the first reveals, and the main reason to care about this game, the bait that was switched for Tomb Kings and Brets. If we don’t see them in 3 years, I’m going to go ahead and assume that’s because they didn’t have any completed minis designed at launch—and apparently no original artwork. I doubt we’ll even see them in five years, though.
Here are some of the returning dwarf range. Note the bases on the artillery, and the returning metal engineers and runesmith (the plastic runesmith is still there, hopefully Burlok D is as well)
The bigger bases on the models looks off. They’ve got so much space between them
I'm not sure my take has changed on seeing a few battle reports and some people talking with the book. (Alas, no scantily clad ladies).
I think two friends playing in the spirit of things will have fun with this edition. Its classic fantasy as that goes.
I do however see no reason why at a more competitive level this isn't going to devolve into 6-7th edition cavalry hammer. Admittedly the worst culprits of previous editions are not in this (well, except HE) - which may help.
Not tempted by Brets/TK. Have an O&G army gathering dust. If some friends are up for it I might eventually go HE or WE. Sort of tempted by Beastmen but it just feels too one dimensional.
GaroRobe wrote: Here are some of the returning dwarf range. Note the bases on the artillery, and the returning metal engineers and runesmith (the plastic runesmith is still there, hopefully Burlok D is as well)
The bigger bases on the models looks off. They’ve got so much space between them
What's up with the Slayers. Yes, same old models with heads as large as the torso. But not much red hair.
Oh, wait: At this time, the Dwarves mined not enough ferric oxides, so they had to battle the Wood Elves to steal their dye plants.
Wayniac wrote: And GW continues with the trend of having such low stock everything sells out immediately on pre-order.
This is beyond ridiculous at this point.
Well. I'm sure you are willing to pay for new factory for them
GW should have plenty of factories/income to do way more than they do, being as large as they are...
My understanding is the problem is the real estate and infrastructure. They opened the new factory last year I think? Which took a year or longer of haggling with the local government bodies for the increased power supply to the area.
I remember it was noted somewhere they intended a slow rollout of the increase production, but the demand post pandemic was higher than estimated and they were flat out again despite higher capacity and more space.
There's a lot of risk and uncertainty in terms of property and land prices in the UK alongside the inflation etc. They might have ended up buying overcosted land and paying above the odds for a new factory again, only to have demand drop as the outside world went back to normal.
There's still plenty of "is 40k dying" posts and comments out there to suggest that buying a new factory right now would be seen as questionable.
I’m watching the review videos of a channel someone posted a few pages back and I like what I see so far. I’m looking to mainly enjoy games with friends and play classic fantasy so for me it will be great.
Competitive wise we will see but for fantasy I’m personally more about having fun and hoping my opponent does too.
Big problem I have right now is I have no WHFB army anymore, and I dont' know which faction I am interested in :(
But that and it seems really weird they're delaying the releases here, so like if you don't have an army and are wanting let's say O&G or High Elves, what, you'll have to wait a few months for your army to get its models re-released, or else go to eBay and get ripped off or look for 3d prints (at which point why bother with GW stuff anyway, especially when so many of these are a decade or two old)? It seems really strange they didn't have all the main units at least ready to be re-released at once, so people doing armies not Bretonnia/TK and without an existing army can actually play. Makes me question just who this is aimed at: people with existing WHFB armies? new players?
I understand that delaying it just going to push people away from GW models in general, if they're told "sorry you have to wait a few months to play unless you kept you army from 10 years ago"
Overread wrote: For me I don't even know if its FOMO or Nostalgia. I never really wanted a knights in armour army way back when Brets were on sale. If anything they were the army I had some of the least interest in at the time as they didn't have many "fantasy" things in them. Almost no fantasy monsters or mounts and what few they had were taken in small numbers. They were almost the most "realistic" army of all the Old World with their knights, serfs, peasants and soforth.
Platuan4th wrote:Yes, let's just drop ~1000 new SKUs on every independent stockist on a single week.
Do you actually not understand how massive a prospect that is for GW much less anyone looking to carry the game?
Wayniac wrote:I understand that delaying it just going to push people away from GW models in general, if they're told "sorry you have to wait a few months to play unless you kept you army from 10 years ago"
The alternative is 3rd party stores having stocking issues for ages anyway because they'd not be able to justify ordering the entire game in one go; plus GW having huge storage costs; plus customers running out of money and time to justify buying more and more. So some armies might see insanely small sales simply because people run out of cash and the stock isn't moving for them, which could develop into armies getting entirely passed over and ignored (low sales; to low stocking; to lower sales to less investment etc...).
I'm very much in agreement that dropping the entire game would be neat, it would be a financial, logistical and marketing nightmare to handle.
Wayniac wrote: I understand that delaying it just going to push people away from GW models in general, if they're told "sorry you have to wait a few months to play unless you kept you army from 10 years ago"
You can always proxy till stuff gets dropped that way you know what to buy when things are available and aren’t wasting money on models you don’t need. I’ve done that far too many times in my gaming career.
Wayniac wrote: I understand that delaying it just going to push people away from GW models in general, if they're told "sorry you have to wait a few months to play unless you kept you army from 10 years ago"
You can always proxy till stuff gets dropped that way you know what to buy when things are available and aren’t wasting money on models you don’t neeId. I’ve done that far too many times in my gaming career.
I mean, I don't have a WHFB army at all anymore, and if I go the 3d print route there's no point in even bothering with GW b/c it's going to be cheaper/probably better quality than the old models they're putting back. Just feels odd that they're doing a delayed release for something that they seem to want to attract new people to, not just be there for the old grogs.
Staggering releases is how you keep a product line going. Releasing every single thing at once is a logistical nightmare and doesn't broker long-term spending.
Take TV shows as an example. Shows with a traditional release schedule (i.e. an episode a week) pull in higher viewing numbers over a longer period of time while the more "modern" approach (dump it all at once) has a spike in interest that then practically disappears overnight.
GW wants to keep interest going by releasing Bretonnia and TKs as the ultimate nostalgia opener and then releasing the other old factions over the following months. Certain factions can also still get a bunch of their models from the AoS range with just some base swaps *cough*Beastmen*cough*.
Once all the old factions have been done, we'll probably see a campaign book then it's onto the new stuff like Cathay or Kislev.
That's what HH has done so far, releasing Legion kits in year one with Solar Aux coming in year two.
Gert wrote: Staggering releases is how you keep a product line going. Releasing every single thing at once is a logistical nightmare and doesn't broker long-term spending.
Take TV shows as an example. Shows with a traditional release schedule (i.e. an episode a week) pull in higher viewing numbers over a longer period of time while the more "modern" approach (dump it all at once) has a spike in interest that then practically disappears overnight.
GW wants to keep interest going by releasing Bretonnia and TKs as the ultimate nostalgia opener and then releasing the other old factions over the following months. Certain factions can also still get a bunch of their models from the AoS range with just some base swaps *cough*Beastmen*cough*.
Once all the old factions have been done, we'll probably see a campaign book then it's onto the new stuff like Cathay or Kislev.
That's what HH has done so far, releasing Legion kits in year one with Solar Aux coming in year two.
A thing I find odd about this thread is that people in here don't seem to get this very fact.
Regarding the releases being staggered, they could at least do the core army boxes for the 9 races. Then do waves of the rest of a races units several months apart. That way it give people a chance to buy now and paint up what they have while they wait for the full model range to be released.
amazed the armies are the two they picked really, Bretonnia can be done easily with other model ranges, just sprinkle a few heros in and there are enough skeletons out there to do a basic skeleton army of the undead
makes it more surprising the models for these two initial boxes are not "all new" with either more fantastical elements or just really high quality sculpts that really sell the premium price tags
leopard wrote: amazed the armies are the two they picked really, Bretonnia can be done easily with other model ranges, just sprinkle a few heros in and there are enough skeletons out there to do a basic skeleton army of the undead
makes it more surprising the models for these two initial boxes are not "all new" with either more fantastical elements or just really high quality sculpts that really sell the premium price tags
Designing new models, then producing the casts takes a lot of time and money. GW already have the old casts for all of WFB. So this way it is minimal effort for maximum gain.
leopard wrote: amazed the armies are the two they picked really, Bretonnia can be done easily with other model ranges, just sprinkle a few heros in and there are enough skeletons out there to do a basic skeleton army of the undead
makes it more surprising the models for these two initial boxes are not "all new" with either more fantastical elements or just really high quality sculpts that really sell the premium price tags
Designing new models, then producing the casts takes a lot of time and money. GW already have the old casts for all of WFB. So this way it is minimal effort for maximum gain.
for sure, but also maximises ways to avoid actually buying GW models, especially when they have other moulds they could use, I mean heck dig up Island of Blood and just use that with a few new bits, and at least its less easy to raid historical ranges
the other way would be more cut down army lists that only cover the models being re-released for now, which also discourages "alternative sourcing" to a level and perhaps could have kept the print costs down with initial lists?
either way, curious to see how many locally bother with this, local shop has bits for pre-order but not sure how much allocated
I mean, I don't have a WHFB army at all anymore, and if I go the 3d print route there's no point in even bothering with GW b/c it's going to be cheaper/probably better quality than the old models they're putting back. Just feels odd that they're doing a delayed release for something that they seem to want to attract new people to, not just be there for the old grogs.
In answer to your previous question, The Old World has been made with persuading existing rank'n'file players to return to the Warhammer brand. If they wanted new players then this would have launched with a 2-player launch box.
I don't think GW wanted to return to rank'n'file but their customers took their money elsewhere for their rules and models, and in retail you have to go where the money is. Thats why we had development coverage over the last few years, to reassure customers that another rank'n'file game is on the way, square-bases an'all.
stonehorse wrote: Regarding the releases being staggered, they could at least do the core army boxes for the 9 races. Then do waves of the rest of a races units several months apart. That way it give people a chance to buy now and paint up what they have while they wait for the full model range to be released.
With 9 factions in TOW that's 45 kits getting added to the range in a single go, at minimum with at least 9 new plastic models in the mix.
For comparison of other launch boxes, 40k 10th Ed was 16 new kits, AoS 3rd was 12, and HH2 was 5. More importantly, the kits that usually get added in a launch box are push-fit minis rather than the full article. That's not the case with TOW.
The make-or-break will be the length of time it takes for the other 7 factions to get at least an army box.
Dystopian Wars (heck the whole Spartan games roster) has had a similar issue. In the end if the game is good and the models popular it will survive a slow roll out.
Games or companies closing down and then restarting takes time. Warcradle are only now just about to release a 2nd game and they've not even touched on any of the Firestorm or Uncharted Seas material.
Yes GW are bigger than WC, but they still can't just throw a whole game onto the market like it was nothing.
It's a huge pain if the army/game you want is last on the list; but at the same time, as noted, slower steadier managed growth is always more sustainable and healthy over super fast expansion.
stonehorse wrote: Regarding the releases being staggered, they could at least do the core army boxes for the 9 races. Then do waves of the rest of a races units several months apart. That way it give people a chance to buy now and paint up what they have while they wait for the full model range to be released.
With 9 factions in TOW that's 45 kits getting added to the range in a single go, at minimum with at least 9 new plastic models in the mix.
For comparison of other launch boxes, 40k 10th Ed was 16 new kits, AoS 3rd was 12, and HH2 was 5. More importantly, the kits that usually get added in a launch box are push-fit minis rather than the full article. That's not the case with TOW.
The make-or-break will be the length of time it takes for the other 7 factions to get at least an army box.
Totally agree Gert. 45 kits and around double that in sprues. There are 18 odd sprues in the 2 core sets on pre order today. I just don't think GW have the capacity to have done that in any reasonable volume. We also have the complete x factor of not knowing if there was any repairs/refinement needed for the old moulds or the time and expense needed to create replacement/new moulds where needed.
even if GW could throw it all out, as noted by others that doesn't mean the retailers can or will carry it all, nor does it mean players have the cash for it
especially with Legions recently released I decided I could afford one or the other, and went with cute ickle tanks
stonehorse wrote: Regarding the releases being staggered, they could at least do the core army boxes for the 9 races. Then do waves of the rest of a races units several months apart. That way it give people a chance to buy now and paint up what they have while they wait for the full model range to be released.
With 9 factions in TOW that's 45 kits getting added to the range in a single go, at minimum with at least 9 new plastic models in the mix.
For comparison of other launch boxes, 40k 10th Ed was 16 new kits, AoS 3rd was 12, and HH2 was 5. More importantly, the kits that usually get added in a launch box are push-fit minis rather than the full article. That's not the case with TOW.
The make-or-break will be the length of time it takes for the other 7 factions to get at least an army box.
No, it would be:
Rulebook,
Forces of Fantasy
Ravening Hordes
Then 9 starter sets.
So 12 things to add.
Edit.
Then add in the rest of the things for a race later on, spread them out to keep the game alive along enough.
This way, people can play straight away, as those starter sets are small forces. So can be used to whet people's appetite.
GaroRobe wrote: Here are some of the returning dwarf range. Note the bases on the artillery, and the returning metal engineers and runesmith (the plastic runesmith is still there, hopefully Burlok D is as well)
The bigger bases on the models looks off. They’ve got so much space between them
The change to base sizes really does piss me off, for a product aimed at getting old players back via a huge dose of nostalgia this is an odd move.
Just don't forget Starter Sets are not single sprue products. Even if all the contents are plastic they typically come on several sprue unless they were part of a major edition launch.
The Old World stuff is a mix of old and new plastic sprues, each one is individual. That means a machine has to be set to print just that sprue, then all the others for the boxed set. So 1 boxed set might be several run cycles of a single machine or several machines running concurrently to build up stock for just 1 box.
So 9 starter sets is way more than just running 9 moulds.
GaroRobe wrote: Here are some of the returning dwarf range. Note the bases on the artillery, and the returning metal engineers and runesmith (the plastic runesmith is still there, hopefully Burlok D is as well)
The bigger bases on the models looks off. They’ve got so much space between them
The change to base sizes really does piss me off, for a product aimed at getting old players back via a huge dose of nostalgia this is an odd move.
I don't get what the up side of it is?
In fairness as most units are on movement trays you can just size a tray to the right size and then adapt it to fit the old bases. A pain for leaders/heroes and monsters; plus a pain for any who moved to AoS.
But GW and bases are always at odds. I figure in part its because newer sculpts might end up being more elaborate and bigger and thus a larger base helps with that (some old stuff was very "stiff" in pose)
Overread wrote: Just don't forget Starter Sets are not single sprue products. Even if all the contents are plastic they typically come on several sprue unless they were part of a major edition launch.
The Old World stuff is a mix of old and new plastic sprues, each one is individual. That means a machine has to be set to print just that sprue, then all the others for the boxed set. So 1 boxed set might be several run cycles of a single machine or several machines running concurrently to build up stock for just 1 box.
So 9 starter sets is way more than just running 9 moulds.
Well yeah obviously... hence I didn’t say 9 new moulds.
Do we know the other 7 races are getting a new plastic? In the video reviews of the force lists, does it mention any new models? I haven't heard any talk of new things. As both Tomb Kings and Bretonnians had little to no plastic character models, it makes sense they get new ones.
So, the 7 other races starter sets will be made from old models which GW already have the moulds for... it would cost them peanuts to get them done. Think the box art/print would be the biggest cost for them.
Didn't 8th edition have very complex/specific tournament tweaks to rules and/or listbuilding to "fix" it anyway? Swedish comp was that it? Surely the same will be done for TOW.
RustyNumber wrote: Didn't 8th edition have very complex/specific tournament tweaks to rules and/or listbuilding to "fix" it anyway? Swedish comp was that it? Surely the same will be done for TOW.
None of which were official and ended up with every single community having their own set of comp rules meaning players that moved had to learn an entirely new set of additional rules.
Tannhauser42 wrote: Well, I finally got in to the US webstore. Nothing left I want. But it looks like some stuff was just straight up never available on the US webstore at all. Comparing a search on the word "Bretonnia" between US and UK, we didn't get the mounted Yeomen (just the command), no Handmaiden, no Questing Knight on foot, no dice, and no combo pack of mounted and foot standard bearer.
** These products have been delayed in the USA and Canada. Please note that while the regular Mounted Yeomen are delayed, the Command Squad will be available on schedule – they’re getting the lay of the land early.
Was that footnote added later? I don't recall seeing that when it first was posted.
It was not, nor was it posted on the preorder preview article on Sunday.
GaroRobe wrote: Here are some of the returning dwarf range. Note the bases on the artillery, and the returning metal engineers and runesmith (the plastic runesmith is still there, hopefully Burlok D is as well)
The bigger bases on the models looks off. They’ve got so much space between them
The change to base sizes really does piss me off, for a product aimed at getting old players back via a huge dose of nostalgia this is an odd move.
I don't get what the up side of it is?
You can just ignore the new bases. The rules don't favor models with smaller bases anymore, so there's no significant advantage to be gained by using smaller bases. I have no intention of rebasing my armies if I take up TOW.
Speaking of high elves, the rule book shows off the plastic swords masters of hoeth, which were exclusive to isle of blood. The lothern sea guard as well, though a few guard were available separately. Hmmm…
Wayniac wrote: I understand that delaying it just going to push people away from GW models in general, if they're told "sorry you have to wait a few months to play unless you kept you army from 10 years ago"
You can always proxy till stuff gets dropped that way you know what to buy when things are available and aren’t wasting money on models you don’t neeId. I’ve done that far too many times in my gaming career.
I mean, I don't have a WHFB army at all anymore, and if I go the 3d print route there's no point in even bothering with GW b/c it's going to be cheaper/probably better quality than the old models they're putting back. Just feels odd that they're doing a delayed release for something that they seem to want to attract new people to, not just be there for the old grogs.
Respectfully, pretty sure you could build a warriors of chaos army mostly with the Slaves to darkness army in AoS. I think with the change to base size even, ranking the newer more dynamic models shouldn't be a problem as much although I don't know. Beastman you could definitely build and a savage orc O&G army looks doable too granted you'd be limited there.
Looks like all the dwarf stuff under CoS is out of stock right now, wonder if that means they are repackaging and going to rerelease for TOW soon.
Looking at the changes for Orcs, I generally speaking really like it. The choice for the army to have lots of Impetuous units is a decent replacement for animosity, even if it isn't quite as flavourful, but without making it a time waster and having to balance around a "lose more" mechanic that you have to actively pay points to ignore with the old Black Orc "Quell Animosity" rules. I also like that we have I3 now so we don't just last behind pretty much everyone except Dwarves and charging is actually meaningful for us with Furious Charge and how choppas work now. Black Orcs in particular just look like a proppa elite unit now and I'm just happy seeing the army want to take Orc units like Boar Boyz for once rather than just spamming one large block of Savage Orc Big Un units till the end of days.
RustyNumber wrote: Didn't 8th edition have very complex/specific tournament tweaks to rules and/or listbuilding to "fix" it anyway? Swedish comp was that it? Surely the same will be done for TOW.
Not just 8th, every edition of Fantasy needed aftermarket listbuilding rules.
GaroRobe wrote: Speaking of high elves, the rule book shows off the plastic swords masters of hoeth, which were exclusive to isle of blood. The lothern sea guard as well, though a few guard were available separately. Hmmm…
Thats a real headace to deal with. IoB elves look nice, but they are not convenient as a standard release because of the sprues joined with skaven, and you also must build full command for every 10 models.
Got 16 old metal swordmasters and 20 from IoB, and currently debating with myselfif I should repaint the metal guys or focus on the plastics.
Wayniac wrote: Big problem I have right now is I have no WHFB army anymore, and I dont' know which faction I am interested in :(
But that and it seems really weird they're delaying the releases here, so like if you don't have an army and are wanting let's say O&G or High Elves, what, you'll have to wait a few months for your army to get its models re-released, or else go to eBay and get ripped off or look for 3d prints (at which point why bother with GW stuff anyway, especially when so many of these are a decade or two old)? It seems really strange they didn't have all the main units at least ready to be re-released at once, so people doing armies not Bretonnia/TK and without an existing army can actually play. Makes me question just who this is aimed at: people with existing WHFB armies? new players?
How many people can go and buy out multiple armies at once?
They aim to sell people multiple armies. But people don't have unlimited wallets. Spreading out helps tempt for many times.
I know the legacy faction pdf's are not officially out yet but I was wondering if anyone happened to find any content creators bigger or smaller who were willing to share any meaningful stats for the units from those pdf's since I am seeing that some larger creators have gotten them and mentioned a few things in passing. I know it probably breaks NDA's of course and most creators just want to avoid any issues but if the pdf's are going to be free for the community anyway it seems ridiculous to hold off on releasing them for another week or two. If you were interested in the new ranges for the core factions and the core rules you would get those products whether you have a pdf for a legacy army you already have or not.
If anyone happens to know if any of the legacy pdf's are out in some form right now or can be viewed then please let me know if you feel comfortable doing so. I understand if people want to keep quiet on it though or if there just isn't anything out about them right now.
Skaven is legacy, so I don't see it happening. All of the high elf side is seen in the books though so maybe they are finally getting a separate release
Skaven is legacy, so I don't see it happening. All of the high elf side is seen in the books though so maybe they are finally getting a separate release
The original sprues were mixed with Skaven, but I think they’re CAD era are they not? Perhaps they’re using the files to make new sprues with just the elves?
Still quite a bit of outlay for the new moulds, but presumably cheaper than whole new sculpts.
The video claims they are already available for their Patron subs, though the comments contradict that and I'm not a supporter so I don't know which is correct. Possibly they have rowed back and the GW NDA says they can only make those videos available after it's released?
I'd that's the case I imagine some stuff will leak soon.
GaroRobe wrote: Speaking of high elves, the rule book shows off the plastic swords masters of hoeth, which were exclusive to isle of blood. The lothern sea guard as well, though a few guard were available separately. Hmmm…
The dwarf army photo shows a bunch of Skull Pass minis too. I suspect those sets will get re-released or at least some kind of battleforce with one specific side to it.
GaroRobe wrote: Speaking of high elves, the rule book shows off the plastic swords masters of hoeth, which were exclusive to isle of blood. The lothern sea guard as well, though a few guard were available separately. Hmmm…
The dwarf army photo shows a bunch of Skull Pass minis too. I suspect those sets will get re-released or at least some kind of battleforce with one specific side to it.
Skaven is legacy, so I don't see it happening. All of the high elf side is seen in the books though so maybe they are finally getting a separate release
The original sprues were mixed with Skaven, but I think they’re CAD era are they not? Perhaps they’re using the files to make new sprues with just the elves?
Still quite a bit of outlay for the new moulds, but presumably cheaper than whole new sculpts.
Oh wow! I had not realized the sprues were mixed that way. I am surprised they did that, even at the time.
GaroRobe wrote: Speaking of high elves, the rule book shows off the plastic swords masters of hoeth, which were exclusive to isle of blood. The lothern sea guard as well, though a few guard were available separately. Hmmm…
The dwarf army photo shows a bunch of Skull Pass minis too. I suspect those sets will get re-released or at least some kind of battleforce with one specific side to it.
I don’t see any skull pass miniatures, though I’d love to get that box
Anyone else making mini dioramas on their bases where there is lots of extra space? For the empire mortar especially, where there is lots of extra room, I think I’ll buy some of the new cities of sigmar cannon bits to throw on their to give my mortars some flavor. Should look good I think.
Well yeah obviously... hence I didn’t say 9 new moulds.
Do we know the other 7 races are getting a new plastic? In the video reviews of the force lists, does it mention any new models? I haven't heard any talk of new things. As both Tomb Kings and Bretonnians had little to no plastic character models, it makes sense they get new ones.
So, the 7 other races starter sets will be made from old models which GW already have the moulds for... it would cost them peanuts to get them done. Think the box art/print would be the biggest cost for them.
I would suspect we might finally see the dwarf lord sprue (or a new variation of). I don't think dwarves have a plastic lord suitable for a starter set, if they are doing the same as per the TK & Bret ones. We might not see these sets for other forces, perhaps just a start collecting for the other core factions now.
But I have hopes we get a new plastic lord for dwarves, as otherwise we will end up with either forgeworld models or just older metals (better than forgeworld models at least). Plus isn't the only dwarf BSB the old forgeworld command set? Maybe we will see those old resin models return.
GaroRobe wrote:Speaking of high elves, the rule book shows off the plastic swords masters of hoeth, which were exclusive to isle of blood. The lothern sea guard as well, though a few guard were available separately. Hmmm…
Wasn't there a small set of hoeth finecast to expand the IoB units? Maybe they will be released instead. I'd be surprised if IoB comes back for a MTO again, it already got two re-releases during AoS. Plus with skaven being legacy.
Not that I'd complain. I'd love to pick up a few more IoB sets as I don't care about their 'Legacy are banned' rubbish.
triplegrim wrote:Having seen the army lists reviewed on YT, I dont frankly see what took 4 (5?) Years to develop.
GaroRobe wrote: Speaking of high elves, the rule book shows off the plastic swords masters of hoeth, which were exclusive to isle of blood. The lothern sea guard as well, though a few guard were available separately. Hmmm…
The dwarf army photo shows a bunch of Skull Pass minis too. I suspect those sets will get re-released or at least some kind of battleforce with one specific side to it.
I don’t see any skull pass miniatures, though I’d love to get that box
Oh! I thought the miners and cannons from this photo were from Skull Pass. Looking again, it seems I was mistaken, though. that's a shame.
Grimskul wrote: Looking at the changes for Orcs, I generally speaking really like it. The choice for the army to have lots of Impetuous units is a decent replacement for animosity,
Forced charges, pursuits and overruns used to be a death sentence in WFB. I remember the type of player me and my friends used to describe as "kid with Khorne", although sometimes it wasn't an actual kid. Basically a type of player who brought a fully Khornate army, "because so many attacks must kill all!!!" and after the first turn wasn't even needed at the table anymore, as you could play their army for them, forcing their units into charges at perfect angles while knowing exactly where they are going to end up, ready to receive flank charges or enfilading fire or getting stuck in a forest for the rest of the game...
triplegrim wrote: Having seen the army lists reviewed on YT, I dont frankly see what took 4 (5?) Years to develop.
Nothing, this was all done in the past 12 months at most.
Lol. Yet more people who don't know what lead times mean.
Project plan:
Year 1: Panic about the joke an intern posted about the square bases aimed at mantic
Year 2: Show off loads of stuff to do with a computer game
Year 3: Argue with AoS bosses about which mini's they can't use
Year 4: Dig out the old moulds and put together a rulebook based on 8 existing rulebooks
One nice thing about the larger bases: I suspect I can reposition the thunderers and quarrelers to actually be aiming forward now instead of holding their weapons at an angle.
Year 1: Panic about the joke an intern posted about the square bases aimed at mantic
Year 2: Show off loads of stuff to do with a computer game
Year 3: Argue with AoS bosses about which mini's they can't use
Year 4: Dig out the old moulds and put together a rulebook based on 8 existing rulebooks
Year 5: create a FOMO scheme based on artificial scarcity to sell old models at premium prices in a matter of hours
Year 1: Panic about the joke an intern posted about the square bases aimed at mantic
Year 2: Show off loads of stuff to do with a computer game
Year 3: Argue with AoS bosses about which mini's they can't use
Year 4: Dig out the old moulds and put together a rulebook based on 8 existing rulebooks
In seriousness, though: Was there anything from AoS excluded besides "legends only" lists? Not to minimize those, mind you. But I think all the Orcs and Goblins are still available, plus all the Dwarfs and the dryads/treemen. Is that everything for shared kits now?
I can't imagine using the old slayers instead of just building the new ones. Same with Chaos Warriors.
Grimskul wrote: Looking at the changes for Orcs, I generally speaking really like it. The choice for the army to have lots of Impetuous units is a decent replacement for animosity,
Forced charges, pursuits and overruns used to be a death sentence in WFB. I remember the type of player me and my friends used to describe as "kid with Khorne", although sometimes it wasn't an actual kid. Basically a type of player who brought a fully Khornate army, "because so many attacks must kill all!!!" and after the first turn wasn't even needed at the table anymore, as you could play their army for them, forcing their units into charges at perfect angles while knowing exactly where they are going to end up, ready to receive flank charges or enfilading fire or getting stuck in a forest for the rest of the game...
Year 1: Panic about the joke an intern posted about the square bases aimed at mantic
Year 2: Show off loads of stuff to do with a computer game
Year 3: Argue with AoS bosses about which mini's they can't use
Year 4: Dig out the old moulds and put together a rulebook based on 8 existing rulebooks
In seriousness, though: Was there anything from AoS excluded besides "legends only" lists? Not to minimize those, mind you. But I think all the Orcs and Goblins are still available, plus all the Dwarfs and the dryads/treemen. Is that everything for shared kits now?
I can't imagine using the old slayers instead of just building the new ones. Same with Chaos Warriors.
Curiously, it looks like the Chaos Warshrine didn't make it.
In seriousness, though: Was there anything from AoS excluded besides "legends only" lists? Not to minimize those, mind you. But I think all the Orcs and Goblins are still available, plus all the Dwarfs and the dryads/treemen. Is that everything for shared kits now?
some units are out like the newer tree spirits or the wizard wagons
though the Beastman part in the books is a little short on pictures and we don't know what will be cut from AoS 4th in summer
The issue for Khorne was that you could make super killy units which were mega expensive, so yes, fairly easy to just lead away to the point they'd never achieve what they needed to. A quick check for instance suggests a tricked out Chaos Lord and 7 Chosen Knights will be 600-700 points in this edition.
Whereas 10 boar boys is going to set you back 200 points or so. I mean I don't want them chasing say a Great Eagle all game - but if they catch it and then do anything else its not the end of the world.
Grimskul wrote: Looking at the changes for Orcs, I generally speaking really like it. The choice for the army to have lots of Impetuous units is a decent replacement for animosity,
Forced charges, pursuits and overruns used to be a death sentence in WFB. I remember the type of player me and my friends used to describe as "kid with Khorne", although sometimes it wasn't an actual kid. Basically a type of player who brought a fully Khornate army, "because so many attacks must kill all!!!" and after the first turn wasn't even needed at the table anymore, as you could play their army for them, forcing their units into charges at perfect angles while knowing exactly where they are going to end up, ready to receive flank charges or enfilading fire or getting stuck in a forest for the rest of the game...
It's a joke because your post can be construed as bragging. "Oooh, you're hard!", hard as in tough. Imagine someone saying it on a south east of England accent.
Ah, yes, I get it Not bragging, though, it was pretty obvious for anyone with even a little experience that Frenzy=trouble (hence "kids with Khorne" because only newbies could fall into that trap).
Even if I could brag about some of my experiences back than, beating a Khorne army is like the complete opposite of anything even remotely "braggable" More a synonym of taking a lollypop from a kid, so a bit embarassing, really, when you needed to do it at a tournament for example...
I kind of remember some ambitious projects from really good players, who were trying to work around the problem by carefully corraling (by blocking LOS or charge corridors) these frenzied Khornate Knights with non-frenzied units until they were ready to charge, but I don't think I have ever seen it actually work. It was jumping thorugh a lot of hoops for a very unreliable result.
Yeah, all Khorne was not a very fun list to play or to play against back then.
Tbh though, old school animosity also wasn't the best fun ever. Any sort of forced movement out of the player's control on their turn made it pretty hard to do well in Fantasy.
Tbh though, old school animosity also wasn't the best fun ever. Any sort of forced movement out of the player's control on their turn made it pretty hard to do well in Fantasy.
Certainly. I can imagine making a failed Animosity roll result in an interesting choice for the O&G player (for example lose boys but get a bonus/override penalty), but at that time the completely passive, mechanical process of roll dice-consult table-perform compulsory action was the name of the game.
Well Minotaurs certainly get an upgraded Frenzy but in a roundabout way but which is not that complicated. In short if they get double on Primal Fury roll they get Frenzy but which is then modified to give A2 instead of A1 but only pursue D6.
Also, Doombull/Gorebull also gives Frenzy to any unit they joined if they get Frenzied. So Gors could benefit from this.
Scottywan82 wrote: One nice thing about the larger bases: I suspect I can reposition the thunderers and quarrelers to actually be aiming forward now instead of holding their weapons at an angle.
I'm looking forward to building an Old World-legal movement tray for my Empire spearmen just so they're easier to rank up - on 20s the first two ranks were a bit of a nightmare and only went together one way. I have a full block of 20 on painted and flocked bases so I figure the easiest way will be just 3D printing or scratchbuilding a tray that has extra 5mm spacers built in.
Suppose I can be mildly happy that the fact Dark Elves are 'legacy' means they won't have much of an opportunity to focus on the stupid 'he was the rightful Phoenix King' nonsense from End Times. Also this might be some kind of Astra Militarum/Imperial Guard thing, where he has two names.
Suppose I can be mildly happy that the fact Dark Elves are 'legacy' means they won't have much of an opportunity to focus on the stupid 'he was the rightful Phoenix King' nonsense from End Times. Also this might be some kind of Astra Militarum/Imperial Guard thing, where he has two names.
I'll still call him Malekith, just as Age of Sigmar has Dwarves and Trolls.
triplegrim wrote: Having seen the army lists reviewed on YT, I dont frankly see what took 4 (5?) Years to develop.
Nothing, this was all done in the past 12 months at most.
Utterly ridiculous if you really think that, when we've been told it takes 2-3 years just to go from designing miniatures to releasing them normally, that they came up with the lore and narrative for a different setting/time period, designed and made multiple brand new miniatures, found and retooled old stuff, figured out what the rules would be, and managed to manufacture all this stock within just 12 months to do all that, at best....
I figure early on it will be 1K and 1.5K as people build up armies. If your area already has established players with armies then 2K and 2.5K might well be where people gravitate toward.
triplegrim wrote: Having seen the army lists reviewed on YT, I dont frankly see what took 4 (5?) Years to develop.
Nothing, this was all done in the past 12 months at most.
Lol. Yet more people who don't know what lead times mean.
Project plan:
Year 1: Panic about the joke an intern posted about the square bases aimed at mantic
Year 2: Show off loads of stuff to do with a computer game
Year 3: Argue with AoS bosses about which mini's they can't use
Year 4: Dig out the old moulds and put together a rulebook based on 8 existing rulebooks
If only I could exalt a post more than once.
I just want to point out for all the apologists in the audience that in the latest article the rules team says "If you want to come on this long-term journey with us, the factions in the Forces of Fantasy and Ravening Hordes books are the ones to collect and play – and we want to be pretty clear about that."
Oh wait but we are missing Kislev and Cathay in that book....so weird......
triplegrim wrote: Having seen the army lists reviewed on YT, I dont frankly see what took 4 (5?) Years to develop.
Nothing, this was all done in the past 12 months at most.
Utterly ridiculous if you really think that, when we've been told it takes 2-3 years just to go from designing miniatures to releasing them normally, that they came up with the lore and narrative for a different setting/time period, designed and made multiple brand new miniatures, found and retooled old stuff, figured out what the rules would be, and managed to manufacture all this stock within just 12 months to do all that, at best....
That's why he's wrong. He just thinks things happen with snap of the finger. Snap and magically books appear out of thin air, moulds are created, sprues cast and distributed.
And never mind all this was done for launch during fall(LI pushed it back) so 12 months is even less GW supposedly had.
triplegrim wrote: Having seen the army lists reviewed on YT, I dont frankly see what took 4 (5?) Years to develop.
Nothing, this was all done in the past 12 months at most.
Utterly ridiculous if you really think that, when we've been told it takes 2-3 years just to go from designing miniatures to releasing them normally, that they came up with the lore and narrative for a different setting/time period, designed and made multiple brand new miniatures, found and retooled old stuff, figured out what the rules would be, and managed to manufacture all this stock within just 12 months to do all that, at best....
Yeah seriously. Just because it looks like about 2 months worth of work didn't mean it didn't take 4 years to do. And yes, sitting around waiting for stuff to get mailed to you from a factory, so you can approve it, is a form hard work.
Just Tony wrote: I saw an argument over whether or not you had to use the "correct" table size for games. Is that what we've become now?
Reliance on official GW and event rules for every little thing about playing with your dudes has killed any creativity or problem-solving amongst a large portion of the general player base. It's a far cry from looking at old GW publications that open with statements like 'these rules are a framework, if you don't like something or want to try something different, go nuts.' I'll be figuring out how to use content from The General's Compendium in my TOW hobbying, it's easily my new favorite GW book after recently discovering it.
Hasn't even been 24 hours since pre-order and already seen multiple articles on it being a failure or that it is such a resounding success it is going to replace AoS. Crazy.
triplegrim wrote: Having seen the army lists reviewed on YT, I dont frankly see what took 4 (5?) Years to develop.
Nothing, this was all done in the past 12 months at most.
Lol. Yet more people who don't know what lead times mean.
Project plan:
Year 1: Panic about the joke an intern posted about the square bases aimed at mantic
Year 2: Show off loads of stuff to do with a computer game
Year 3: Argue with AoS bosses about which mini's they can't use
Year 4: Dig out the old moulds and put together a rulebook based on 8 existing rulebooks
If only I could exalt a post more than once.
I just want to point out for all the apologists in the audience that in the latest article the rules team says "If you want to come on this long-term journey with us, the factions in the Forces of Fantasy and Ravening Hordes books are the ones to collect and play – and we want to be pretty clear about that."
Oh wait but we are missing Kislev and Cathay in that book....so weird......
Kislev and Cathay are literally presented in the core rulebook as major factions/powers.
Just a thought but considering how many people have legacy armies or want a legacy army GW might have paused and gone "hey if we release two brand new armies the first thing our social media will get is bombardment by people with or wanting old armies going nuts over how we've abandoned them"
So it might well be a very tactically sound choice to not release the utterly brand, totally new armies into the "retro nostalgia" game first. Instead push out the door a huge bunch of older models and a few updated sculpts for armies for people who have those armies; or had those armies or wanted those armies. Ergo maximise the popularity by feeding that side of the market first and then when Cathay and Norsca come along BOOM they are able to be new popular things in the game that's selling really well.
Now granted Norsca are not technically a new force, but they had a curious history where they kind of jumped in and out of the Empire book as a subfaction and soforth. So the reworking of them, as presented and as in the video game, is basically all new.
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Just Tony wrote: I saw an argument over whether or not you had to use the "correct" table size for games. Is that what we've become now?
It's the internet - people will argue over ANYTHING to fill an hour.
Also for some people they want to just know the official line on how things work. Perhaps they want to make a super detailed highly elaborate board and they just want to know the dimensions that will most times work without ending up with a board that isn't functional and such.
Also I've always found it odd how people hold up praise for GW putting "just play stuff how you want" in their rules. You don't need a company to tell you to do whatever the heck you want. You don't pay them £30-50 for a rulebook and then half as much for an army book plus additional stuff to go "eh just do what you feel is right". You pay them and ask them for the formal "here's how it 'should be'". You can then freely accept that or go your own way.
So yes people do want to know the official limits and factors and elements in the game. That's the base-line things work with. Beyond that you can agree or disagree and in the real world many games will happen on all kinds of tablesize. Perhaps defined by fancy boards premade by firms; or just because its the amount of tablespace they've got to play with.
RustyNumber wrote: Didn't 8th edition have very complex/specific tournament tweaks to rules and/or listbuilding to "fix" it anyway? Swedish comp was that it? Surely the same will be done for TOW.
Not just 8th, every edition of Fantasy needed aftermarket listbuilding rules.
I remember the comp score packs from 6th Ed. WFB and 3rd/4th Ed. 40K, and I can't seem to find ANYONE who has PDFs of those sheets. I'd sacrifice one of at least 9 nonvital organs to get those.
frankelee wrote: Yeah seriously. Just because it looks like about 2 months worth of work didn't mean it didn't take 4 years to do.
The work isn't even all done by the same people with the same availability. They very likely had designs sitting for months or even years before getting time allocated from toolmakers or packaging designers, who had to schedule TOW things in between other projects like AOS or HH. The same applies to production planning; there was no way 40k 10E launch injection molding would get scheduled behind Bone Dragons or flying Dukes.
Not to mention a big chunk of the last 4-5 years will have been spent developing products that are still yet to release, like the remaining 7 factions.
Skaven is legacy, so I don't see it happening. All of the high elf side is seen in the books though so maybe they are finally getting a separate release
The original sprues were mixed with Skaven, but I think they’re CAD era are they not? Perhaps they’re using the files to make new sprues with just the elves?
Still quite a bit of outlay for the new moulds, but presumably cheaper than whole new sculpts.
If they were to make a battleforce with full 20 man units with command for the IoB Elven infantry I would buy multiple boxes in a heartbeat, no matter how much of a PITA it would be to get enough 20mm bases for them. I've wanted to run 4 blocks of Swordmasters ever since I saw Blind Eltharion's rules, and I know my niece was wanting to start a High Elf army from scratch, and the SOC Seaguard force might just entice her.
Scottywan82 wrote:
GaroRobe wrote: Speaking of high elves, the rule book shows off the plastic swords masters of hoeth, which were exclusive to isle of blood. The lothern sea guard as well, though a few guard were available separately. Hmmm…
The dwarf army photo shows a bunch of Skull Pass minis too. I suspect those sets will get re-released or at least some kind of battleforce with one specific side to it.
Skull Pass and Isle of Blood were both incredible starter sets hampered by both armies occupying the sprue frames. It they'd had the foresight to make them separate on the frames, then they would have had the fundamentals for incredible battalion/army boxes.
No doubt it's been a long process with many authors. Hence why we got a WarCom article about Kislev and Cathay tying in to Total Warhammer before an accountant slammed a DENIED stamp down on their budget, and it became four new models for two factions. And I also would not be surprised that GW makes a very small team of designers do everything and just let them take four or five years because they can't focus on anything. And then production bottlenecks on top.
Ahtman wrote: Hasn't even been 24 hours since pre-order and already seen multiple articles on it being a failure or that it is such a resounding success it is going to replace AoS. Crazy.
Idiots gonna idiot and clickbaiters gonna clickbait.
Just Tony wrote: I saw an argument over whether or not you had to use the "correct" table size for games. Is that what we've become now?
Now? Its happened every edition of every game for the last couple decades.
I don't remember there EVER being that sort of discussion about table sizes when I started playing up til recently. In fact the only times I found table size requirements gamewise in 6th/7th WFB or 3rd-5th 40K it was tied solely to deployment zones, objectives, and "no man's land" spaces.
xttz wrote:
frankelee wrote: Yeah seriously. Just because it looks like about 2 months worth of work didn't mean it didn't take 4 years to do.
The work isn't even all done by the same people with the same availability. They very likely had designs sitting for months or even years before getting time allocated from toolmakers or packaging designers, who had to schedule TOW things in between other projects like AOS or HH. The same applies to production planning; there was no way 40k 10E launch injection molding would get scheduled behind Bone Dragons or flying Dukes.
Not to mention a big chunk of the last 4-5 years will have been spent developing products that are still yet to release, like the remaining 7 factions.
I have a feeling there was some feedback about which edition things were being pulled from which caused some rolling changes until they finally landed on Super 8th, which then led to the info releases in earnest.
Lets also not forget Covid, Global shipping disaster and Cost of Living all reared their heads during the life of this project.
It might well be what GW envisioned at the start of this project is VERY different to what they have now. Perhaps at one time they were going to re-design all the core armies and then BOOM a bunch of delays and cost increases and suddenly those resources are eaten up by other elements of their company.
It's one reason GW rarely lets us know things are in development until they are at the point of starting marketing to build up toward sales. Because so so sooo much can happen over a products development cycle that can change the product from what was pitched at the start.
Even though GW are big they are not without budget limits and their size is spread over many product lines. Each one screaming for more resources.
frankelee wrote: No doubt it's been a long process with many authors. Hence why we got a WarCom article about Kislev and Cathay tying in to Total Warhammer before an accountant slammed a DENIED stamp down on their budget, and it became four new models for two factions. And I also would not be surprised that GW makes a very small team of designers do everything and just let them take four or five years because they can't focus on anything. And then production bottlenecks on top.
Cathay was last mentioned in 2022. Over 2 years after the project was announced and you think they still had no idea what the budget was, what they'd actually be doing for the project, or what they had the capacity for and were therefore just spouting whatever in articles because it was somehow still some completely undecided thing?
I really don't know why people think 4 or so years for a project like this, especially with covid during that, is some absurdly long development time for it that means they did nothing for years or it just went terribly. We had rumours of Horus Heresy Epic being playtested back in 2021 even before it was properly announced in 2023. Things like this just take years.
Overread wrote: So it might well be a very tactically sound choice to not release the utterly brand, totally new armies into the "retro nostalgia" game first. Instead push out the door a huge bunch of older models and a few updated sculpts for armies for people who have those armies; or had those armies or wanted those armies. Ergo maximise the popularity by feeding that side of the market first and then when Cathay and Norsca come along BOOM they are able to be new popular things in the game that's selling really well.
Now granted Norsca are not technically a new force, but they had a curious history where they kind of jumped in and out of the Empire book as a subfaction and soforth. So the reworking of them, as presented and as in the video game, is basically all new.
I take it you mean Kislev in the above, not Norsca?
Overread wrote: So it might well be a very tactically sound choice to not release the utterly brand, totally new armies into the "retro nostalgia" game first. Instead push out the door a huge bunch of older models and a few updated sculpts for armies for people who have those armies; or had those armies or wanted those armies. Ergo maximise the popularity by feeding that side of the market first and then when Cathay and Norsca come along BOOM they are able to be new popular things in the game that's selling really well.
Now granted Norsca are not technically a new force, but they had a curious history where they kind of jumped in and out of the Empire book as a subfaction and soforth. So the reworking of them, as presented and as in the video game, is basically all new.
I take it you mean Kislev in the above, not Norsca?
Just Tony wrote: I saw an argument over whether or not you had to use the "correct" table size for games. Is that what we've become now?
Going by what Ash said in his GMG review of the rulebook, the standard table size is 6x4 as it has always been. However the book does contain options on playing with the smaller, more modern game board size (Like 60x44).
Basically it just provides the option as not many people necessarily have a 6x4 board to play on outside a gaming club or game store.
If they were to make a battleforce with full 20 man units with command for the IoB Elven infantry I would buy multiple boxes in a heartbeat, no matter how much of a PITA it would be to get enough 20mm bases for them. I've wanted to run 4 blocks of Swordmasters ever since I saw Blind Eltharion's rules, and I know my niece was wanting to start a High Elf army from scratch, and the SOC Seaguard force might just entice her.
Techically there is a good chance we see Bellanaer as a special character once we get to the elves. He accompanied Finubar on his travels to the old world (around the time of this game) and was the master of the white tower. Would be cool to see him unlock a swordmaster list.
I feel the debate on lead times is one that isn't going to be resolved - but I think its reasonable to say that different things are.. different.
GW have limited production capacity - which we know has been a problem for years now (partly due to a massive increase in demand). Making all these kits (and also shipping them round the world etc) is an either-or. See much bleating that they aren't producing enough of just about everything - whether from customers or from FLGS who want to sell to customers.
To a degree that applies to everything - but its not really the same bottleneck. Writing rules is relatively straight forward - especially when, for the most part, these are the same as before. Art and layout of the books etc will take time - but you can hire more artists. Printing them is easier than printing models. Its not something you'd do in 5 minutes - but its also not something that would take 4-5 years.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Utterly ridiculous if you really think that, when we've been told it takes 2-3 years just to go from designing miniatures to releasing them normally, that they came up with the lore and narrative for a different setting/time period, designed and made multiple brand new miniatures, found and retooled old stuff, figured out what the rules would be, and managed to manufacture all this stock within just 12 months to do all that, at best....
And that was all done by one person doing one thing at a time, in sequence.
frankelee wrote: Yeah seriously. Just because it looks like about 2 months worth of work didn't mean it didn't take 4 years to do.
The work isn't even all done by the same people with the same availability. They very likely had designs sitting for months or even years before getting time allocated from toolmakers or packaging designers, who had to schedule TOW things in between other projects like AOS or HH. The same applies to production planning; there was no way 40k 10E launch injection molding would get scheduled behind Bone Dragons or flying Dukes.
Not to mention a big chunk of the last 4-5 years will have been spent developing products that are still yet to release, like the remaining 7 factions.
You make it sound like GW is one of those TV shop advertisement women who just fumbles everything and its so complicated to carry two dishes from counter to kitchen table.
This was a low effort army book release.
I'm happy we have the old world. But this has not been worked on for 4 years. More like 2 months. Thays the time they made gorkamorka from skratch in, I believe. In 1997. With far fewer tools and digital aids. This is just a reprint more or less.
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chaos0xomega wrote: What's absurd is the insistence that Cathay and kiskev were canceled or aren't coming, etc. Just because they weren't available on launch.
So maybe a 2028 release for those, if so? Being serious here.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Utterly ridiculous if you really think that, when we've been told it takes 2-3 years just to go from designing miniatures to releasing them normally, that they came up with the lore and narrative for a different setting/time period, designed and made multiple brand new miniatures, found and retooled old stuff, figured out what the rules would be, and managed to manufacture all this stock within just 12 months to do all that, at best....
And that was all done by one person doing one thing at a time, in sequence.
Oh right, because having multiple people working on it means that they could do things out of sequence and just go straight to getting to to work on manufacturing the miniatures that they hadn't designed yet, without having to wait for the toolings needed to actually make those miniatures that they'd have needed those non-existent designs to actually do, and just skip the whole idea of first having established just what the setting is and what they need to make which designing, tooling and manufacturing would have depended on doing in the first place...
Yeah, 12 months seems reasonable when they can just magic things up out of nowhere and don't have to take into account reality.
Just Tony wrote: I saw an argument over whether or not you had to use the "correct" table size for games. Is that what we've become now?
Reliance on official GW and event rules for every little thing about playing with your dudes has killed any creativity or problem-solving amongst a large portion of the general player base. It's a far cry from looking at old GW publications that open with statements like 'these rules are a framework, if you don't like something or want to try something different, go nuts.' I'll be figuring out how to use content from The General's Compendium in my TOW hobbying, it's easily my new favorite GW book after recently discovering it.
The internet, fb groups and social media has made playing strangers more common. The reach of my games early 2000s was my friends and the odd tournament. Have to be honest it felt like a chore to meet a new fellow nerd and listen to him rattle off all his 'brilliant house rules'. Half of which were not fixing half the problems they were creating.
Having strict and clear rules pregame reduces endless feelbad arguments at the table with strangers, mostlynin situ where both wants to jockey for the immediate reward and where the more socially normal player usually ends up bending over for the more socially inept (removed - no, just no.), setting awful precedents.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Utterly ridiculous if you really think that, when we've been told it takes 2-3 years just to go from designing miniatures to releasing them normally, that they came up with the lore and narrative for a different setting/time period, designed and made multiple brand new miniatures, found and retooled old stuff, figured out what the rules would be, and managed to manufacture all this stock within just 12 months to do all that, at best....
And that was all done by one person doing one thing at a time, in sequence.
Oh right, because having multiple people working on it means that they could do things out of sequence and just go straight to getting to to work on manufacturing the miniatures that they hadn't designed yet,
These Tomb Kings were designed in 1999 or close to it. The Old World has had one heck of a development time.
chaos0xomega wrote: What's absurd is the insistence that Cathay and kiskev were canceled or aren't coming, etc. Just because they weren't available on launch.
So maybe a 2028 release for those, if so? Being serious here.
I expect Kislev within a year, maybe 18 months on the longer end.
Just Tony wrote: I saw an argument over whether or not you had to use the "correct" table size for games. Is that what we've become now?
Reliance on official GW and event rules for every little thing about playing with your dudes has killed any creativity or problem-solving amongst a large portion of the general player base. It's a far cry from looking at old GW publications that open with statements like 'these rules are a framework, if you don't like something or want to try something different, go nuts.' I'll be figuring out how to use content from The General's Compendium in my TOW hobbying, it's easily my new favorite GW book after recently discovering it.
The internet, fb groups and social media has made playing strangers more common. The reach of my games early 2000s was my friends and the odd tournament. Have to be honest it felt like a chore to meet a new fellow nerd and listen to him rattle off all his 'brilliant house rules'. Half of which were not fixing half the problems they were creating.
Having strict and clear rules pregame reduces endless feelbad arguments at the table with strangers, mostlynin situ where both wants to jockey for the immediate reward and where the more socially normal player usually ends up bending over for the more socially inept (removed), setting awful precedents.
Mentlegen324 wrote: Utterly ridiculous if you really think that, when we've been told it takes 2-3 years just to go from designing miniatures to releasing them normally, that they came up with the lore and narrative for a different setting/time period, designed and made multiple brand new miniatures, found and retooled old stuff, figured out what the rules would be, and managed to manufacture all this stock within just 12 months to do all that, at best....
And that was all done by one person doing one thing at a time, in sequence.
Oh right, because having multiple people working on it means that they could do things out of sequence and just go straight to getting to to work on manufacturing the miniatures that they hadn't designed yet,
These Tomb Kings were designed in 1999 or close to it. The Old World has had one heck of a development time.
The old stuff was. But the new Tomb Kings miniatures that they needed ready to be released alongside those were not designed in 1999.
As expected, I asked GW if they had any idea of the release for other factions, and got the standard "When we have info we'll post it to warcom!" marketing BS answer.
So who knows when people not interested in TK or Bretonnia but don't have existing WHFB armies laying around will get anything.
3D printed stuff looking better and better, especially when you factor in that most of the models are 15+ years old, some even 20+ (TK came out the end of 2002) and the skeleton horses are the same garbage from fething 1993 (proven by looking at the picture of the sprue, it says (C) 1993 on it) so those are over 30 years old
chaos0xomega wrote: I expect Kislev within a year, maybe 18 months on the longer end.
this we should now rather soon
would mean we see every 2-3 months a new release with journal+models for the remaining core factions
depending what happens this and next month, if the 2nd wave is going to pre-order next week or not and if the next release is again 2 factions happening sooner than later, it might be possible
yet adding that the designers said they are going to release Kislev when they reach Praag and now have said that this event is rather far in future
Wayniac wrote: As expected, I asked GW if they had any idea of the release for other factions, and got the standard "When we have info we'll post it to warcom!" marketing BS answer.
So who knows when people not interested in TK or Bretonnia but don't have existing WHFB armies laying around will get anything.
3D printed stuff looking better and better, especially when you factor in that most of the models are 15+ years old, some even 20+ (TK came out the end of 2002) and the skeleton horses are the same garbage from fething 1993 (proven by looking at the picture of the sprue, it says (C) 1993 on it) so those are over 30 years old
Those horses are even older than that. They were on a different sprue in 1991, maybe even older.
Snotlings are included in books and if they have rustled up the full mixture of snotlings that were only discontinued a few years ago, some are even older yet again.
chaos0xomega wrote: I expect Kislev within a year, maybe 18 months on the longer end.
this we should now rather soon
would mean we see every 2-3 months a new release with journal+models for the remaining core factions
depending what happens this and next month, if the 2nd wave is going to pre-order next week or not and if the next release is again 2 factions happening sooner than later, it might be possible
yet adding that the designers said they are going to release Kislev when they reach Praag and now have said that this event is rather far in future
Necromunda releases quarterly, so I’d anticipate at least that. Maybe faster initially since it got pushed back 3 mths by the Li issue.
My prediction is that we’ll get all the initial AJs in this BP sandbox, then probably Kislev since they have factions in the BP sandbox, possibly followed by a campaign focus in Kislev itself or maybe the northern Empire as well.
After than a new sandbox focussing on Cathay, probably the Time of Darkness and Disharmony leading up to the Monkey King’s conquest since that’s the situation described for Cathay in the Rulebook.
Then probably a new mini setting, perhaps the Affair of the False Grail? Or some Empire focussed squabble?
