So the Blood Angels rumors have been popping in and out for the better part of a year now, and for a faction everyone seems to say is a GW favorite, its hard to tell by looking. The 2 edition changes have not been kind at all, and we are now the last marine codex in soft cover.
Since we have been left in the dust in terms of points cost, warlord traits, psychic powers, etc, its just adding insult to injury that we have had to watch 2 books be updated TWICE before we get our update. If the rumors are true regarding a necron release, that will make codex number 3.
The writing is on the wall, folks. The new editions show without a doubt that GW no longer cares about balancing our book, and the skipping of our codex has really started to point to our army being shelved by the development team indefinitely. Do not expect a new BA book at any point in the next 2-3 years.
th3maninblak wrote: So the Blood Angels rumors have been popping in and out for the better part of a year now, and for a faction everyone seems to say is a GW favorite, its hard to tell by looking. The 2 edition changes have not been kind at all, and we are now the last marine codex in soft cover.
Since we have been left in the dust in terms of points cost, warlord traits, psychic powers, etc, its just adding insult to injury that we have had to watch 2 books be updated TWICE before we get our update. If the rumors are true regarding a necron release, that will make codex number 3.
The writing is on the wall, folks. The new editions show without a doubt that GW no longer cares about balancing our book, and the skipping of our codex has really started to point to our army being shelved by the development team indefinitely. Do not expect a new BA book at any point in the next 2-3 years.
Wouldn't be so sure about that. Most rumors seem to indicate that GW are focussing on releasing every single 40k army and en pour all their effort on into fantasy, since that department has a very low sale and dwindling player base.
Yes, but apparently in October the Necrons will get a Codex-release in a single week.
So we should all take out our pitchforks and torches and burn down GW-headquarters because.. well because he says so.
Meh. I still think that BA could just as well be another chapter i the generic SM codex. They aren't that special and their changes could just as well be covered up with a few USR. Like Salamanders or BT.
Yes, but if necrons are indeed next, then that will push them back to january at the earliest, if they ever get done.
And about them being "boring", thats a matter of opinion. They are (or were, at least) a hugely popular faction. Theyre boring in comparison to everyone else now because everyone else has been updated.
Yes, but if necrons are indeed next, then that will push them back to january at the earliest, if they ever get done.
And about them being "boring", thats a matter of opinion. They are (or were, at least) a hugely popular faction. Theyre boring in comparison to everyone else now because everyone else has been updated.
I always expected them to come out around November.
And I don't see how a Halloween-cron-release is really changing anything.
Blood Angels were more appropriate in the standard Marine codex than BT. And I played both for a time. Chapter tactics blood rage was totally fine, plus some BA specific wargear. The army has the same composition as SM. as opposed to mixing scout and marines into a single squad, no Libby's, Emp's Champ, vows, etc.
Yes, but if necrons are indeed next, then that will push them back to january at the earliest, if they ever get done.
And about them being "boring", thats a matter of opinion. They are (or were, at least) a hugely popular faction. Theyre boring in comparison to everyone else now because everyone else has been updated.
Necrons have a one week release, then 2 weeks of chaos stuff, then probably BA, I've seen.
Sir, let me show you Sisters of Battle... and over here, Exhibit B. B for Bretonnia.
The only thing shelved about Blood Angels is that one off army you have, say all Sanguinary Guard, which is guaranteed to be made invalid by the new book. And any character that doesn't have a model (though I think BA has them all?). You'll still probably see at least two units cut.
Sir, let me show you Sisters of Battle... and over here, Exhibit B. B for Bretonnia.
The only thing shelved about Blood Angels is that one off army you have, say all Sanguinary Guard, which is guaranteed to be made invalid by the new book. And any character that doesn't have a model (though I think BA has them all?). You'll still probably see at least two units cut.
Lol my friend im saying that the BA are joining the ranks of sisters and bretonnians as the forgotten children of GW.
Yes, but if necrons are indeed next, then that will push them back to january at the earliest, if they ever get done.
And about them being "boring", thats a matter of opinion. They are (or were, at least) a hugely popular faction. Theyre boring in comparison to everyone else now because everyone else has been updated.
Necrons have a one week release, then 2 weeks of chaos stuff, then probably BA, I've seen.
If so, it will be interesting to see what will come next.
New edition? Supplements?
Nah, they'll get their codex in short order. Too many BA specific models to sell. Its a model company that sporadically produces rules, right? And despite their (many) poor decisions; deleting a once very popular army (still one of the more popular chapters by Dakka Polls) and rolling it into the big SM book would be a mistake. They could only sell one $50 codex instead of two, which is not the way GW is leaning. Think of all the supplement shenanigans ongoing to increase profits, BA will get a new codex soon, I'll put a shiny $1 on it.
Anpu42 wrote: No, they just not got to them yet. There are only 2 pre-6th edition Codexes left, Blood Angles and Necrons.
Okay. One dex just needs some points adjustments and some unit size tweaks (ABarges and lyche guard). The other has been straight up no-lube fisted by 2 seperate edition changes, pays nearly 50 points too much for most of its units and that's not even going into how its not even bottom tier anymore. Its trash bin tier. Which one should, by any rational sense of logic, be made to wait another month for an update?
Let's not forget, this being the LAST 5th edition dex to be updated, if they screw us over (bets are 4-1 in favour of this at the LGS, no I'm not kidding lol), the whole ruinous cycle starts over for another 2-3 years. I've been playing BA for 11 years. I love every last character and bit of fluff/lore. I think that they have the coolest range of models in all of 40k. Somehow, in spite of this, Greedy Whitemen have broken my will to field my decade long favorite army.*end rant*
But both codices really need an update.
After such a long time with overpaying for everything, another month isn't going to destroy my love for the Blood Angels or the game.
And with Necrons being a 1-week release I think it hardly matters.
Anpu42 wrote: It can work as a back-to-back release. Look at Space Wolves and Grey Knights.
Rumors are saying october 11th and 18th white dwarfs will be chaos end times, then the 25th will be necrons, then back to end times for 3 weeks. After that its the holiday season, which is reserved for special bundle deals. So end times will finish around november 16th, then holiday stuff until the new year, meaning that if crons are next we wont see blood angels until mid january, if they get released at all.
Anpu42 wrote: It can work as a back-to-back release. Look at Space Wolves and Grey Knights.
Rumors are saying october 11th and 18th white dwarfs will be chaos end times, then the 25th will be necrons, then back to end times for 3 weeks. After that its the holiday season, which is reserved for special bundle deals. So end times will finish around november 16th, then holiday stuff until the new year, meaning that if crons are next we wont see blood angels until mid january, if they get released at all.
Anpu42 wrote: It can work as a back-to-back release. Look at Space Wolves and Grey Knights.
Rumors are saying october 11th and 18th white dwarfs will be chaos end times, then the 25th will be necrons, then back to end times for 3 weeks. After that its the holiday season, which is reserved for special bundle deals. So end times will finish around november 16th, then holiday stuff until the new year, meaning that if crons are next we wont see blood angels until mid january, if they get released at all.
Why would they not be released?
Seeing as how the editions have been made completely disregarding balance of the blood angels, it would make sense that the army get shelved entirely for the next several years. My guess is we have a year or two to go until we see an update.
timetowaste85 wrote: Blood Angels were more appropriate in the standard Marine codex than BT. And I played both for a time. Chapter tactics blood rage was totally fine, plus some BA specific wargear. The army has the same composition as SM. as opposed to mixing scout and marines into a single squad, no Libby's, Emp's Champ, vows, etc.
Blood Angels won't get rolled into the main SM Codex, there is too much fluff to actually do any justice to them. Also Blood Angels have quite a lot of different units when compared to SM. It would just get too clunky adding Death Company, Sanguinary Guard, Furioso and Baals. It's bound to start getting little Jimmy confused and start spending all his pocket money on a squad he can't use with his Ultramarines.
th3maninblak wrote: Seeing as how the editions have been made completely disregarding balance of the blood angels, it would make sense that the army get shelved entirely for the next several years. My guess is we have a year or two to go until we see an update.
Seriously? "I'm not having my update now, so that means I'll have to wait another two years despite GW quickly updating everything in a ridiculously and never-before-seen tempo!"? What the feth is wrong with people..
th3maninblak wrote: Seeing as how the editions have been made completely disregarding balance of the blood angels, it would make sense that the army get shelved entirely for the next several years. My guess is we have a year or two to go until we see an update.
Seriously?
"I'm not having my update now, so that means I'll have to wait another two years despite GW quickly updating everything in a ridiculously and never-before-seen tempo!"?
What the feth is wrong with people..
The evidence is there. Particularly since GW is updating newer codices that need it less before us. Im sure you wouldnt be complaining at all if you were in the same position, lol.
So because Necrons get a week of release that is evidence that we'll get our Codex in two years? I don't think GW really cares about the "Codex X needs it harder" and I don't think that is motivation to decide what to do next, otherwise our Codex would have been updated over a year ago.
How do you mean "the same position"? Blood Angels are my favourite army and I have over 7000 points of them. If it weren't for lucky deals where I could get 5000 points at a 30% price, my BA would be my biggest army.
My biggest issue is with all the doomsaying and the widespread panic.
daddyorchips wrote: the blood angels are really boring though. i'm not surprised that GW aren't that interested in them.
This is extremely subjective. Your opinion seems pretty stupid to me as you don't bother to put any arguments to support it and it's really just completely irrelevant...
th3maninblak wrote: Seeing as how the editions have been made completely disregarding balance of the blood angels, it would make sense that the army get shelved entirely for the next several years. My guess is we have a year or two to go until we see an update.
Seriously?
"I'm not having my update now, so that means I'll have to wait another two years despite GW quickly updating everything in a ridiculously and never-before-seen tempo!"?
What the feth is wrong with people..
The evidence is there. Particularly since GW is updating newer codices that need it less before us. Im sure you wouldnt be complaining at all if you were in the same position, lol.
That would make sense if GW had any will to consider it's customers or to accept the horrible inbalance of this game. But because that is hardly so, expecting them to act logically/fairly to players is pretty optimistic...
Most of us aren't doomsaying gak. I'm just frustrated to the point of having given up on playing them since even when the new dex drops, it will be mediocre at best. The GW design team can suck me dry. Thats the only way they're getting me to drop money on the new book in 2027 or whenever it drops.
cyberjonesy wrote: Did nt bother to read through the first replies but has anyone mailed a box of tissues to this guy already?
I feel so sad that blood angels are nt completely overpowered anymore. Cant wait for their vehicles to be reduced in price again so as to make them completely imbalanced in line with wave serpents. This is exactly what 40k needs right now.
Please bother to think before you post... The claim that updating a bottom-tire army will automatically make them OP is pretty ridiculous and I seriously can't say if you're trolling or just ignorant.
BaalSNAFU wrote: Most of us aren't doomsaying gak. I'm just frustrated to the point of having given up on playing them since even when the new dex drops, it will be mediocre at best. The GW design team can suck me dry. Thats the only way they're getting me to drop money on the new book in 2027 or whenever it drops.
Granted, literally ANY kind of update would be better than what we have now.
BaalSNAFU wrote: Most of us aren't doomsaying gak. I'm just frustrated to the point of having given up on playing them since even when the new dex drops, it will be mediocre at best. The GW design team can suck me dry. Thats the only way they're getting me to drop money on the new book in 2027 or whenever it drops.
Even when?
Mediocre at best?
New book in 2027?
I hope you have a trustworthy source for all that doomsaying.
BaalSNAFU wrote: Most of us aren't doomsaying gak. I'm just frustrated to the point of having given up on playing them since even when the new dex drops, it will be mediocre at best. The GW design team can suck me dry. Thats the only way they're getting me to drop money on the new book in 2027 or whenever it drops.
Granted, literally ANY kind of update would be better than what we have now.
No doubt. But even if we get a god tier dex that makes eldar cry, with pulitzer prize quality fluff, that wont be sufficient for me to forgive GW for making me wait almost 3 f*cking years before I could actually enjoy my $800 worth of BA stuff. I mean I had some good times when we still had out powers, but even that was an uphill battle because I was usually handicapped between 200-400 points per game.
BaalSNAFU wrote: Most of us aren't doomsaying gak. I'm just frustrated to the point of having given up on playing them since even when the new dex drops, it will be mediocre at best. The GW design team can suck me dry. Thats the only way they're getting me to drop money on the new book in 2027 or whenever it drops.
Even when?
Mediocre at best?
New book in 2027?
I hope you have a trustworthy source for all that doomsaying.
I was being a smart ass with the 2027 bit, but mediocre at best is in line with the 7th edition releases. A bunch of unnecessary nerfs, a few nifty buffs, across the board points drops, some meh to decent relics and possibly an utterly slowed new kit. No reason to expect they'd break the status quo to give BA a sweet dex (even if we really, really fething deserve one).
Eh, GW probably has their own method of updating codex's. Most likely has to do with where they see the most money, and which will be easiest/faster to put out models for.
Or, you know, they just pick them out of a hat, and the Blood Angels just got picked last.
Guardsmen Bob wrote: Eh, GW probably has their own method of updating codex's. Most likely has to do with where they see the most money, and which will be easiest/faster to put out models for.
Or, you know, they just pick them out of a hat, and the Blood Angels just got picked last.
What happens releasing necrons first: they become unhappy and disenchanted with the nerfs to their book, even if they are justified. The release generates little sales, and may lose a bit of the cron player base. The blood angels players are further alienated.
What happens releasing BA first: sales boost by updating a very popular book, that really needs ANY kind of update. Sales generated are about the same as the space wolves release, if not better. The necron players hold on to a positively recieved codex a little while longer.
BaalSNAFU wrote: I was being a smart ass with the 2027 bit, but mediocre at best is in line with the 7th edition releases. A bunch of unnecessary nerfs, a few nifty buffs, across the board points drops, some meh to decent relics and possibly an utterly slowed new kit. No reason to expect they'd break the status quo to give BA a sweet dex (even if we really, really fething deserve one).
Status quo, slowed new kits, unnecessary nerfs? At this point it seems more that you have some personal grief against GW than a well-thought expectation of what to expect. That line could be used in a dictionary next to the definition of doomsaying.
Don't expect a top-tier codex, they learned their mistake with Eldar and Tau. But it will surely be mid-tier, just like the last few new codices.
th3maninblak wrote: What happens releasing necrons first: they become unhappy and disenchanted with the nerfs to their book, even if they are justified. The release generates little sales, and may lose a bit of the cron player base. The blood angels players are further alienated.
What happens releasing BA first: sales boost by updating a very popular book, that really needs ANY kind of update. Sales generated are about the same as the space wolves release, if not better. The necron players hold on to a positively recieved codex a little while longer.
Positively received codex? Yeah, sure, only if you are a tournament player that enjoys spamming the same three units over and over. But for everyone that wants to field Immortals, Elites, Monoliths or Special Characters.. Don't make up things, many Necron-players are really looking forward to a reason to field the other 66% of their collection!
Poly Ranger wrote: My three main armies are BA, Crons and CSM... I'm winning whichever order these three are coming out :-p!
Automatically Appended Next Post: (Winning as in Charlie Sheen... not winning with BA - pah!)
Exactly. The codex as it stands now is all but unplayable. We actually have several pages that are utterly meaningless. Necrons dont have that. I would love to actually enjoy my favorite army again, but thats not happening for the forseeable future, as it seems thats too much to ask at this point.
Poly Ranger wrote: My three main armies are BA, Crons and CSM... I'm winning whichever order these three are coming out :-p!
Automatically Appended Next Post: (Winning as in Charlie Sheen... not winning with BA - pah!)
Exactly. The codex as it stands now is all but unplayable. We actually have several pages that are utterly meaningless. Necrons dont have that. I would love to actually enjoy my favorite army again, but thats not happening for the forseeable future, as it seems thats too much to ask at this point.
So what, every army his its ups and downs through the editions. You think the Necrons or Dark Eldar had strong codices before they're 5th edition update? Stop relying on rumors so much, we'll have our update eventually.
Poly Ranger wrote: My three main armies are BA, Crons and CSM... I'm winning whichever order these three are coming out :-p!
Automatically Appended Next Post: (Winning as in Charlie Sheen... not winning with BA - pah!)
Exactly. The codex as it stands now is all but unplayable. We actually have several pages that are utterly meaningless. Necrons dont have that. I would love to actually enjoy my favorite army again, but thats not happening for the forseeable future, as it seems thats too much to ask at this point.
So what, every army his its ups and downs through the editions. You think the Necrons or Dark Eldar had strong codices before they're 5th edition update? Stop relying on rumors so much, we'll have our update eventually.
Eventually for such a popular army that has been nerfed into the dust by edition changes isnt good enough.
Poly Ranger wrote: My three main armies are BA, Crons and CSM... I'm winning whichever order these three are coming out :-p!
Automatically Appended Next Post: (Winning as in Charlie Sheen... not winning with BA - pah!)
Exactly. The codex as it stands now is all but unplayable. We actually have several pages that are utterly meaningless. Necrons dont have that. I would love to actually enjoy my favorite army again, but thats not happening for the forseeable future, as it seems thats too much to ask at this point.
So what, every army his its ups and downs through the editions. You think the Necrons or Dark Eldar had strong codices before they're 5th edition update? Stop relying on rumors so much, we'll have our update eventually.
Eventually for such a popular army that has been nerfed into the dust by edition changes isnt good enough.
Oh come on. Our codex is 4 years old, and for 2 of those years it was a very strong army. Stop being so dramatic.
Sir, let me show you Sisters of Battle... and over here, Exhibit B. B for Bretonnia.
The only thing shelved about Blood Angels is that one off army you have, say all Sanguinary Guard, which is guaranteed to be made invalid by the new book. And any character that doesn't have a model (though I think BA has them all?). You'll still probably see at least two units cut.
Lol my friend im saying that the BA are joining the ranks of sisters and bretonnians as the forgotten children of GW.
People have been saying that about Wood Elves as well. But then this past April...
Don't worry, you'll get your chance to give GW a $100 for the new bland codex, required supplement, and whatever stupid idea for a model they decided to attach wings to.
Be glad it isn't like back in 2007 when we got the WD codex after 9 years.Some players really lost their gak over that. The truth of the matter is regardless of which codex you choose you will most likely be behind the power curve for most of it's shelf life because GW doesn't improve rules, they only change them. If you stick with one army then there will short periods where you are strong and even longer periods where you suck. The next book will not be good because we are a close combat army in a shooting edition. That is not to say there won't be a power build in the book, but it will most likely be counter to the fluff.
Crimson Devil wrote: Don't worry, you'll get your chance to give GW a $100 for the new bland codex, required supplement, and whatever stupid idea for a model they decided to attach wings to.
Be glad it isn't like back in 2007 when we got the WD codex after 9 years.Some players really lost their gak over that. The truth of the matter is regardless of which codex you choose you will most likely be behind the power curve for most of it's shelf life because GW doesn't improve rules, they only change them. If you stick with one army then there will short periods where you are strong and even longer periods where you suck. The next book will not be good because we are a close combat army in a shooting edition. That is not to say there won't be a power build in the book, but it will most likely be counter to the fluff.
I remember when it was announced that the Blood Angels were getting their 5th edition codex and people were screaming about how unfair is was the Marines were getting another codex and that Dark Eldar were getting the shaft. Now it has reversed.
what? because we aren't top priority, we are shelved? funny, because they finally updated eldar, the only soft cover books remaining are necrons and blood angels, give it time, and quit being impatient.
The only consistent "fact" about GW update cycles is the core Space Marine book will be updated for every edition, and they loosely follow a scheme where they update older books first, but it's by no means a certainty.
Did Guard need an update before Orks? Absolutely not, did the Space Wolves need an update before DE or BA? Nope, still happens.
They do what they want for whatever reason, BA hold the dubious distinction of being either the last or 2nd to last codex to be updated, and probably won't get a major revamp. I expect new plastic assault marines, and maybe one new unit, and then on to trying to right the sinking Fantasy ship.
doubtlessly with more of the stuff which is wrecking 40k.
MajorStoffer wrote: The only consistent "fact" about GW update cycles is the core Space Marine book will be updated for every edition, and they loosely follow a scheme where they update older books first, but it's by no means a certainty.
Did Guard need an update before Orks? Absolutely not, did the Space Wolves need an update before DE or BA? Nope, still happens.
They do what they want for whatever reason, BA hold the dubious distinction of being either the last or 2nd to last codex to be updated, and probably won't get a major revamp. I expect new plastic assault marines, and maybe one new unit, and then on to trying to right the sinking Fantasy ship.
doubtlessly with more of the stuff which is wrecking 40k.
Ok even as a Blood Angel person I got to call BS on this one. Dark Eldar was a complete Joke and Space Wolf's did not even have a flier in there codex it was so old. Both of those needed an update. I have 3 main armies Blood angels, Space Wolf's and Sisters of Battle. Now if we wish to talk about some real hate from GW Look at that list of those 3 which one do you think gets shafted ever edition. If i need to pull that one out and explain it then please let me know. Does your rock have electricity? Blood Angel had one of the best dexes for a long time I think Eldar was by far the worst when i started and was till 5th even then it was semi good till the latest one which is wtf over powered. Now think about this one if they hit all the other dexes so hard wtf you think is about to happen to tau and eldar. Those 2 are gonna get hit so bad the forums will be screaming till the next edition.
Blood angels were good in 5th ed, okay in 6th until space marines hit, fairly bad after that, and a joke now. I want to be wrong on this, its just a gut feeling backed up by evidence provided by GWs recent releases. If im wrong, and we get BA next month, then i will come back to this thread and apologize. But i highly doubt that we will have our update by the end of january, and if we dont have it by then, well you can kiss your dreams of a new codex goodbye until 8th edition 40k.
No. They'll appear eventually. GW is in a mad dash to release as much stuff as they can to try and keep sales up desperately. They'll give a codex to anything by this point.
MajorStoffer wrote: The only consistent "fact" about GW update cycles is the core Space Marine book will be updated for every edition, and they loosely follow a scheme where they update older books first, but it's by no means a certainty.
Did Guard need an update before Orks? Absolutely not, did the Space Wolves need an update before DE or BA? Nope, still happens.
They do what they want for whatever reason, BA hold the dubious distinction of being either the last or 2nd to last codex to be updated, and probably won't get a major revamp. I expect new plastic assault marines, and maybe one new unit, and then on to trying to right the sinking Fantasy ship.
doubtlessly with more of the stuff which is wrecking 40k.
Ok even as a Blood Angel person I got to call BS on this one. Dark Eldar was a complete Joke and Space Wolf's did not even have a flier in there codex it was so old. Both of those needed an update. I have 3 main armies Blood angels, Space Wolf's and Sisters of Battle. Now if we wish to talk about some real hate from GW Look at that list of those 3 which one do you think gets shafted ever edition. If i need to pull that one out and explain it then please let me know. Does your rock have electricity? Blood Angel had one of the best dexes for a long time I think Eldar was by far the worst when i started and was till 5th even then it was semi good till the latest one which is wtf over powered. Now think about this one if they hit all the other dexes so hard wtf you think is about to happen to tau and eldar. Those 2 are gonna get hit so bad the forums will be screaming till the next edition.
Haha I cannot wait to hear the whimpers of those few eldar players (its not the majority), who have kept claiming the eldar dex is not OP and we just need to 'play better'. It will be worth waiting years for.
Centurions with Blood Claws Scouts with winged jump packs
a new sculpt of Lord Mephiston
So you want to strap young Space Wolves to your arms?
Brain fart on my part, but I think you have something going on there with that idea.
Strapping a young space wolf to your arm should be worth at least a 4++ save
I think BA will come before Christmas.
People will have more money to spend and BA will become a big Christmas deal.
I can see that.
The current release schedule is pure anarchy just releasing things whenever they feel like it. After xmas is usually a guaranteed 40k release but who knows any more, GWs desperate thrashing isn't helping anyone.
Haha I cannot wait to hear the whimpers of those few eldar players (its not the majority), who have kept claiming the eldar dex is not OP and we just need to 'play better'. It will be worth waiting years for.
Centurions with Blood Claws Scouts with winged jump packs
a new sculpt of Lord Mephiston
So you want to strap young Space Wolves to your arms?
Brain fart on my part, but I think you have something going on there with that idea.
Strapping a young space wolf to your arm should be worth at least a 4++ save
Be pretty itchy and mangy though.
Does anyone even know who this "super reliable" belloflostsouls source was?
Blood Angels aren't shelved, just haven't been released yet. There are two armies left with to be updated, Necrons and Blood Angels. Let's start worrying about Blood Angels being shelved when we start seeing the hardcover codexes being replaced without a Blood Angels codex.
diepotato47 wrote: Blood Angels aren't shelved, just haven't been released yet. There are two armies left with to be updated, Necrons and Blood Angels. Let's start worrying about Blood Angels being shelved when we start seeing the hardcover codexes being replaced without a Blood Angels codex.
Which is what im honestly expecting to happen, and what im afraid of.
Yes, GW decided to shelf one of the most popular armies (next to UM probably).. Someone has to be last on the list of codex updates and unfortunately BA made that list.
diepotato47 wrote: Blood Angels aren't shelved, just haven't been released yet. There are two armies left with to be updated, Necrons and Blood Angels. Let's start worrying about Blood Angels being shelved when we start seeing the hardcover codexes being replaced without a Blood Angels codex.
Which is what im honestly expecting to happen, and what im afraid of.
No. Really not.
BA was one of the most popular 40k armies.
In the third edition it was the most successful behind Nids.
Incidently, Space Hulk fields exactly these armies.
I guess that BA will arrive before Xmas.
cyberjonesy wrote: Did nt bother to read through the first replies but has anyone mailed a box of tissues to this guy already?
I feel so sad that blood angels are nt completely overpowered anymore. Cant wait for their vehicles to be reduced in price again so as to make them completely imbalanced in line with wave serpents. This is exactly what 40k needs right now.
Please bother to think before you post... The claim that updating a bottom-tire army will automatically make them OP is pretty ridiculous and I seriously can't say if you're trolling or just ignorant.
Eldar were bottom tier before 6th edition codex dropped. Eldar players were a dying breed like the Eldar themselves now you can't go a week without seeing a serpent spam list (or even a "im not using serpents" eldar player trying to handicap himself by not taking any transports which just so happen to be overpowered tank equivalents for cheap) in the army list section or a thread about how OP or not OP or how to beat Wave Serpents or Wraithknights.
diepotato47 wrote: Blood Angels aren't shelved, just haven't been released yet. There are two armies left with to be updated, Necrons and Blood Angels. Let's start worrying about Blood Angels being shelved when we start seeing the hardcover codexes being replaced without a Blood Angels codex.
Which is what im honestly expecting to happen, and what im afraid of.
Stop being so melodramatic !
The Warhammer Fest event T-shirt is Blood Angels (not Necrons, not Nurgle), I wouldn't be surprised if something was announced there this weekend.
That, coupled with the recent Space Hulk re-release means they're far from shelved.
cyberjonesy wrote: Did nt bother to read through the first replies but has anyone mailed a box of tissues to this guy already?
I feel so sad that blood angels are nt completely overpowered anymore. Cant wait for their vehicles to be reduced in price again so as to make them completely imbalanced in line with wave serpents. This is exactly what 40k needs right now.
Please bother to think before you post... The claim that updating a bottom-tire army will automatically make them OP is pretty ridiculous and I seriously can't say if you're trolling or just ignorant.
Eldar were bottom tier before 6th edition codex dropped. Eldar players were a dying breed like the Eldar themselves now you can't go a week without seeing a serpent spam list (or even a "im not using serpents" eldar player trying to handicap himself by not taking any transports which just so happen to be overpowered tank equivalents for cheap) in the army list section or a thread about how OP or not OP or how to beat Wave Serpents or Wraithknights.
Eldar was a subpar army (not bottom) in 5th.. That's it. All other editions you can care to think of, Eldar was always a top borderline broken power army.
cyberjonesy wrote: Did nt bother to read through the first replies but has anyone mailed a box of tissues to this guy already?
I feel so sad that blood angels are nt completely overpowered anymore. Cant wait for their vehicles to be reduced in price again so as to make them completely imbalanced in line with wave serpents. This is exactly what 40k needs right now.
Please bother to think before you post... The claim that updating a bottom-tire army will automatically make them OP is pretty ridiculous and I seriously can't say if you're trolling or just ignorant.
Eldar were bottom tier before 6th edition codex dropped. Eldar players were a dying breed like the Eldar themselves now you can't go a week without seeing a serpent spam list (or even a "im not using serpents" eldar player trying to handicap himself by not taking any transports which just so happen to be overpowered tank equivalents for cheap) in the army list section or a thread about how OP or not OP or how to beat Wave Serpents or Wraithknights.
Eldar was a subpar army (not bottom) in 5th.. That's it. All other editions you can care to think of, Eldar was always a top borderline broken power army.
At the start of 6th, they were at the bottom until they got their new Dex. Tau, which had been the bottom for most of 5th, actually moved up when 6th released, even before their new Dex.
cyberjonesy wrote: Did nt bother to read through the first replies but has anyone mailed a box of tissues to this guy already?
I feel so sad that blood angels are nt completely overpowered anymore. Cant wait for their vehicles to be reduced in price again so as to make them completely imbalanced in line with wave serpents. This is exactly what 40k needs right now.
Please bother to think before you post... The claim that updating a bottom-tire army will automatically make them OP is pretty ridiculous and I seriously can't say if you're trolling or just ignorant.
Eldar were bottom tier before 6th edition codex dropped. Eldar players were a dying breed like the Eldar themselves now you can't go a week without seeing a serpent spam list (or even a "im not using serpents" eldar player trying to handicap himself by not taking any transports which just so happen to be overpowered tank equivalents for cheap) in the army list section or a thread about how OP or not OP or how to beat Wave Serpents or Wraithknights.
Eldar was a subpar army (not bottom) in 5th.. That's it. All other editions you can care to think of, Eldar was always a top borderline broken power army.
At the start of 6th, they were at the bottom until they got their new Dex. Tau, which had been the bottom for most of 5th, actually moved up when 6th released, even before their new Dex.
And? On the release of 6th edition, Croissant Necrons was god-tier army, followed by the atrociously powerful biomancy Nidzilla monster mashup. Heck, even IG was considered top due to the Vendetta and access to good and very sought after AA to counter the other aircraft a abusers. I find it difficult to see a point in comparing the armies performance in the beginning of an edition, especially if they get updated further in. Your comparison would have merit, if the Eldar was skipped for an update.
Kirasu wrote: Yes, GW decided to shelf one of the most popular armies (next to UM probably).. Someone has to be last on the list of codex updates and unfortunately BA made that list.
There is a 0% chance of BA ever being shelved.
The last blood angel release saw record breaking sales, they sold 6 months worth of product in 3 months. So I highly doubt they are being shelved. Especially with space hulk just released again.
Kirasu wrote: Yes, GW decided to shelf one of the most popular armies (next to UM probably).. Someone has to be last on the list of codex updates and unfortunately BA made that list.
There is a 0% chance of BA ever being shelved.
The last blood angel release saw record breaking sales, they sold 6 months worth of product in 3 months. So I highly doubt they are being shelved. Especially with space hulk just released again.
I wish they would release just the models from Space Hulk, but they just don't want our money that much.
such doom and gloom. I see January at the latest with the current release schedule. BA are one of my armies, and I have been waiting as well. But just because necrons *might* go before us, doesn't mean they are shelving BA.
Hang in there just a few more months, then after january and they aren't released, then you can be worried.
Kirasu wrote: Yes, GW decided to shelf one of the most popular armies (next to UM probably).. Someone has to be last on the list of codex updates and unfortunately BA made that list.
There is a 0% chance of BA ever being shelved.
The last blood angel release saw record breaking sales, they sold 6 months worth of product in 3 months. So I highly doubt they are being shelved. Especially with space hulk just released again.
I wish they would release just the models from Space Hulk, but they just don't want our money that much.
See space hulk is a sore point for me, it means that they have the technology to make really dynamic sculpts and put them on frames like that for less then the cost of what they are charging now, 10 terminators, 1 terminator libby is $150 (the same price of the game) in addition to that you get 22 genestealers, a broodlord and the rest of the game! Personally I think they should remake battle forces into these bundle deals with unique models. It acts as a booster box for people starting.
Kirasu wrote: Yes, GW decided to shelf one of the most popular armies (next to UM probably).. Someone has to be last on the list of codex updates and unfortunately BA made that list.
There is a 0% chance of BA ever being shelved.
The last blood angel release saw record breaking sales, they sold 6 months worth of product in 3 months. So I highly doubt they are being shelved. Especially with space hulk just released again.
I wish they would release just the models from Space Hulk, but they just don't want our money that much.
See space hulk is a sore point for me, it means that they have the technology to make really dynamic sculpts and put them on frames like that for less then the cost of what they are charging now, 10 terminators, 1 terminator libby is $150 (the same price of the game) in addition to that you get 22 genestealers, a broodlord and the rest of the game! Personally I think they should remake battle forces into these bundle deals with unique models. It acts as a booster box for people starting.
Hang in there just a few more months, then after january and they aren't released, then you can be worried.
Not a eeasonable request at this juncture I'm afraid. We have been utter sh*t for well over 2 years. We've been most in need of an updated book yet literally every other army has been given priority. A few even twice. And after all the waiting time, we are going to get the "streamlining treatment" where we get the points adjustments we desperately need, but we lose most of what makes us want to play BA. Look what GW did to GKSW and DE.
Hang in there just a few more months, then after january and they aren't released, then you can be worried.
Not a eeasonable request at this juncture I'm afraid. We have been utter sh*t for well over 2 years. We've been most in need of an updated book yet literally every other army has been given priority. A few even twice. And after all the waiting time, we are going to get the "streamlining treatment" where we get the points adjustments we desperately need, but we lose most of what makes us want to play BA. Look what GW did to GKSW and DE.
And most of us Space Wolf and Grey Knight Players are happy with what we got. The only ones truly complaining are the Inquisition players and it is to soon to for the Dark Eldar to see of it is a bad Dex.
All the reviews of the DE dex i've read are scathing (1d4chan, BoLS, Spikey Bits, indepebdent blogs etc). And I guess some SW players are happy (mostly the tourney guys running the wolf cav list I'd imagine) but if I list all my iconic wargear that's been around since 3rd ed and got a santa claus stand in in return I'd be pretty darn pissed.
Hang in there just a few more months, then after january and they aren't released, then you can be worried.
Not a eeasonable request at this juncture I'm afraid. We have been utter sh*t for well over 2 years. We've been most in need of an updated book yet literally every other army has been given priority. A few even twice. And after all the waiting time, we are going to get the "streamlining treatment" where we get the points adjustments we desperately need, but we lose most of what makes us want to play BA. Look what GW did to GKSW and DE.
And most of us Space Wolf and Grey Knight Players are happy with what we got. The only ones truly complaining are the Inquisition players and it is to soon to for the Dark Eldar to see of it is a bad Dex.
Our new codex will be fine. Ill be absolutely thrilled if its on par with the wolf dex. The problem is unless you love to lose, you cant play BA in their current trashy state.
cyberjonesy wrote: Did nt bother to read through the first replies but has anyone mailed a box of tissues to this guy already?
I feel so sad that blood angels are nt completely overpowered anymore. Cant wait for their vehicles to be reduced in price again so as to make them completely imbalanced in line with wave serpents. This is exactly what 40k needs right now.
Please bother to think before you post... The claim that updating a bottom-tire army will automatically make them OP is pretty ridiculous and I seriously can't say if you're trolling or just ignorant.
Eldar were bottom tier before 6th edition codex dropped. Eldar players were a dying breed like the Eldar themselves now you can't go a week without seeing a serpent spam list (or even a "im not using serpents" eldar player trying to handicap himself by not taking any transports which just so happen to be overpowered tank equivalents for cheap) in the army list section or a thread about how OP or not OP or how to beat Wave Serpents or Wraithknights.
Yes, your point is....?
Seriously, I am not stupid enough to think that it's impossible to an army getting superior by getting a new codex.
But I am also not idiotic enough to assume that it will automatically happen. You had one example of an army going from bad to broken.
I have several exapmles of armies going from medicore to medicore, bad to worse or even bad to medicore.
Oh, and look! They are all from within a year!
Astra Militarum.
Space Wolves.
Tyranids.
Orks.
Grey Knights.
There is not a single reason to assume that they will automatically become the biggest OP-est flavor of the month the second they are updated from the "Bad"-status.
Example: i have been playing blood angels for the better part of 5 years. I win far more often than i lose, by a long shot, but usually its by the skin of my teeth and through me knowing the army like the back of my hand. I spent the last half of 6th and into 7th scraping victories until i decided to make my drop pod crimson fists. My list for them isnt even optimal, but i went from sweating out close games to crushing everyone i played against. Its only when you play a strong army that you learn how bad the weak ones are.
Trust me, I know. I owned an Eldar army after their new dex popped, I own Space Wolves and have played several 1,500 point games (my signature is a bit out of date) and I have played twice my friend's CSM and once GK.
I have seen the other power levels. The power of one Drop Pod squad of Wolves seemed simply great after playing a JP Assault Squad of equal cost and inferior contirbution to the game.
The truth is however that I have never played another army that I handled as well as the BA and even with experience of only two years compared to your five, I can honestly make the claim that I play better with Blood Angels.
And after two years of testing units, honing my skills as a player, meeting new armies, getting experience, I can not accept the claim that BA are in some way unplayable or "trash".
soomemafia wrote: Trust me, I know. I owned an Eldar army after their new dex popped, I own Space Wolves and have played several 1,500 point games (my signature is a bit out of date) and I have played twice my friend's CSM and once GK.
I have seen the other power levels. The power of one Drop Pod squad of Wolves seemed simply great after playing a JP Assault Squad of equal cost and inferior contirbution to the game.
The truth is however that I have never played another army that I handled as well as the BA and even with experience of only two years compared to your five, I can honestly make the claim that I play better with Blood Angels.
And after two years of testing units, honing my skills as a player, meeting new armies, getting experience, I can not accept the claim that BA are in some way unplayable or "trash".
Oh i understand that completely. Someone who just fits the feel and playstyle of the blood angels with exceptional knowledge of the army can pull off some crazy stuff. But have you ever played vs serpent spam with it? Adamantine lance? Triptide? The new GK quad Dreadknight lists? A player who is fantastic with their blood angels will still be fighting an uphill battle (and very well may lose) against some shmuck with a power list.
Its not that we cant win. Its that doing so is extremely difficult, to the point of not being worth it. Why bother with an army that bad when some random kid shows up and beats you with his older brothers white scar grav spam?
But have you ever played vs serpent spam with it? Adamantine lance? Triptide? The new GK quad Dreadknight lists? A player who is fantastic with their blood angels will still be fighting an uphill battle (and very well may lose) against some shmuck with a power list.
Some of these games were at the end of 6th and a few were obviously in 7th. I haven't played as much in 7th but here's my tally against those using BA:
Serpent Spam -
I am 2-1 against it using AV13 wall.
Adamantine lance -
haven't played it, probably wouldn't fare well, but then who would?
Triptide-
Kind of a joke against ... my AV13 wall ...
GK -
1-0 but that one is probably deceptive. I should NOT have won but he had some terrible rolls and forgot about objectives.
So the point is, at least for me, the codex we have has been able to give me at least one list in every edition I've used it that was able to at least compete. In fact, it's a lot easier to play my armored list than it is to try and work out a CSM list without using the Nurgle/Drake combo or Spawn tide/etc.
For me, it's less about power level and more about being ready for a change. While I found a list that seems to do well, I've played it to death so I'm ready for a new book and yes, I'd agree with the person who said that if our new book comes out like the Wolves I'd be generally happy. I mean I don't want "Bloodblood on my blood blood" or the "blood talon" or blood gun" lol but yeah, some new tricks, maybe a new unit or two and some general points adjustments and I'll be good to go!
But have you ever played vs serpent spam with it? Adamantine lance? Triptide? The new GK quad Dreadknight lists? A player who is fantastic with their blood angels will still be fighting an uphill battle (and very well may lose) against some shmuck with a power list.
Some of these games were at the end of 6th and a few were obviously in 7th. I haven't played as much in 7th but here's my tally against those using BA:
Serpent Spam -
I am 2-1 against it using AV13 wall.
Adamantine lance -
haven't played it, probably wouldn't fare well, but then who would?
Triptide-
Kind of a joke against ... my AV13 wall ...
GK -
1-0 but that one is probably deceptive. I should NOT have won but he had some terrible rolls and forgot about objectives.
So the point is, at least for me, the codex we have has been able to give me at least one list in every edition I've used it that was able to at least compete. In fact, it's a lot easier to play my armored list than it is to try and work out a CSM list without using the Nurgle/Drake combo or Spawn tide/etc.
For me, it's less about power level and more about being ready for a change. While I found a list that seems to do well, I've played it to death so I'm ready for a new book and yes, I'd agree with the person who said that if our new book comes out like the Wolves I'd be generally happy. I mean I don't want "Bloodblood on my blood blood" or the "blood talon" or blood gun" lol but yeah, some new tricks, maybe a new unit or two and some general points adjustments and I'll be good to go!
I dunno, spamming AV13 is probably BA's best bet. It offsets their overpriced-everything-else because their AV13 vehicles are either cheaper or slightly more expensive than equivalents in the newer 'Dexes. Plus it's pretty difficult for some lists to deal with if they didn't pack enough AT.
If you expect a jumper-heavy list to deliver though... good luck to ya.
But have you ever played vs serpent spam with it? Adamantine lance? Triptide? The new GK quad Dreadknight lists? A player who is fantastic with their blood angels will still be fighting an uphill battle (and very well may lose) against some shmuck with a power list.
Some of these games were at the end of 6th and a few were obviously in 7th. I haven't played as much in 7th but here's my tally against those using BA:
Serpent Spam -
I am 2-1 against it using AV13 wall.
Adamantine lance -
haven't played it, probably wouldn't fare well, but then who would?
Triptide-
Kind of a joke against ... my AV13 wall ...
GK -
1-0 but that one is probably deceptive. I should NOT have won but he had some terrible rolls and forgot about objectives.
So the point is, at least for me, the codex we have has been able to give me at least one list in every edition I've used it that was able to at least compete. In fact, it's a lot easier to play my armored list than it is to try and work out a CSM list without using the Nurgle/Drake combo or Spawn tide/etc.
For me, it's less about power level and more about being ready for a change. While I found a list that seems to do well, I've played it to death so I'm ready for a new book and yes, I'd agree with the person who said that if our new book comes out like the Wolves I'd be generally happy. I mean I don't want "Bloodblood on my blood blood" or the "blood talon" or blood gun" lol but yeah, some new tricks, maybe a new unit or two and some general points adjustments and I'll be good to go!
Could you post your list? I'm kinda' curious.
Something like this perhaps? (Posted this a couple months ago in the tactics thread for a bit of fun)
HQ Libby (Hand Flamer)
ELITES
Fragnought (Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod)
Fragnought (Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod)
Fragnought (Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod)
TROOPS
5x Assault Marines (Plasmagun, Razorback with Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer)
5x Assault Marines (Plasmagun, Razorback with Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer)
5x Assault Marines (Plasmagun, Razorback with Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer)
5x Assault Marines (Plasmagun, Razorback with Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer)
FAST ATTACK
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters)
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters)
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters)
HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator (Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons)
Predator (Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons)
Predator (Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons)
Well, AV 13 wall is too expensive to be effective.
Tanks and Dreads with too less damage output.
Fast are able to target the Predators side armor.
It IS expensive, and like any other list it has its bad matchups, but I've had plenty of success with it against good players. The biggest trick is moving everything in formation so that it becomes very difficult for the enemy to target the weak points. Yeah, he'll get some, but when you have 6 preds and two AV dreads, or six preds and a LR or 2, who cares if he pops one. Almost nobody brings enough high end dakka to stop that.
But yeah, a lot of people tend to run their tanks right upfield like they're invincible. You wouldn't do that with your troops so why do it with your vehicles? I use a few different "real world" armor formations to protect the weak points. I've even used the old school "circle the wagons" formation on tables with no cover. lol
If you expect a jumper-heavy list to deliver though... good luck to ya.
Jumpers on their own aren't too bad. I have more issues with JSJ. A jump pack army can be somewhat mitigated by positioning and using troops as a deterrent (come within melta range and get charged by my blender naught, etc.), but the two match ups I hate right now are Salamanders (or any melta heavy marine army) in all drop pods, and crisis suit heavy Tau builds as it becomes hard to mitigate the JSJ mechanic.
Could you post your list? I'm kinda' curious
I don't have the final list in front of me (might have some time later to post it in detail), but here's an old thread from 6th ed. where I first started kicking the idea around. Some things have obviously changed (like being able to give "wings" to the dreadnaughts), but its the basic idea.
My list is similar to Andiuls' list, but with a less expensive HQ one fewer dreads and slightly less points spent on troops, but with two Land Raiders added in with what I saved on dreads/HQ/troops.
I dunno, spamming AV13 is probably BA's best bet. It offsets their overpriced-everything-else because their AV13 vehicles are either cheaper or slightly more expensive than equivalents in the newer 'Dexes. Plus it's pretty difficult for some lists to deal with if they didn't pack enough AT.
If you expect a jumper-heavy list to deliver though... good luck to ya.
But have you ever played vs serpent spam with it? Adamantine lance? Triptide? The new GK quad Dreadknight lists? A player who is fantastic with their blood angels will still be fighting an uphill battle (and very well may lose) against some shmuck with a power list.
Some of these games were at the end of 6th and a few were obviously in 7th. I haven't played as much in 7th but here's my tally against those using BA:
Serpent Spam -
I am 2-1 against it using AV13 wall.
Adamantine lance -
haven't played it, probably wouldn't fare well, but then who would?
Triptide-
Kind of a joke against ... my AV13 wall ...
GK -
1-0 but that one is probably deceptive. I should NOT have won but he had some terrible rolls and forgot about objectives.
So the point is, at least for me, the codex we have has been able to give me at least one list in every edition I've used it that was able to at least compete. In fact, it's a lot easier to play my armored list than it is to try and work out a CSM list without using the Nurgle/Drake combo or Spawn tide/etc.
For me, it's less about power level and more about being ready for a change. While I found a list that seems to do well, I've played it to death so I'm ready for a new book and yes, I'd agree with the person who said that if our new book comes out like the Wolves I'd be generally happy. I mean I don't want "Bloodblood on my blood blood" or the "blood talon" or blood gun" lol but yeah, some new tricks, maybe a new unit or two and some general points adjustments and I'll be good to go!
Could you post your list? I'm kinda' curious.
Something like this perhaps? (Posted this a couple months ago in the tactics thread for a bit of fun)
HQ Libby (Hand Flamer)
ELITES
Fragnought (Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod)
Fragnought (Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod)
Fragnought (Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod)
TROOPS
5x Assault Marines (Plasmagun, Razorback with Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer)
5x Assault Marines (Plasmagun, Razorback with Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer)
5x Assault Marines (Plasmagun, Razorback with Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer)
5x Assault Marines (Plasmagun, Razorback with Heavy Bolter or Heavy Flamer)
FAST ATTACK
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters)
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters)
Baal Predator (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolters)
HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator (Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons)
Predator (Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons)
Predator (Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons)
Hehe.. Just got an immense flashback to 5 edition parking lots. The list looks looks like fun though, even if I would just go with the option of taking a captain with a combi-weapon and call it a day.
Well, against an armored tank company or an AV13 wall my Seer Council has a field day.
Once the unit is inside the enemy formation, the army breaks apart.
I've done it several times. It has always worked.
I would replace the regular preds with vindis. Our predators are waaaayyyy overcosted. And we have a woefully weak hq selection. Compare our best list to the best necron lists and youll find us coming up super short. Even just compare the strong units that crons have compared to ours. Command/annihilation barges, ghost arks, night scythes, immortals, big blobs of warriors with res orbs, lords with MSS, etc. And we have baal preds, vindicators, fragnoughts, and ap1 missile storm ravens... and thats about it.
But have you ever played vs serpent spam with it? Adamantine lance? Triptide? The new GK quad Dreadknight lists? A player who is fantastic with their blood angels will still be fighting an uphill battle (and very well may lose) against some shmuck with a power list.
Some of these games were at the end of 6th and a few were obviously in 7th. I haven't played as much in 7th but here's my tally against those using BA:
Serpent Spam -
I am 2-1 against it using AV13 wall.
Adamantine lance -
haven't played it, probably wouldn't fare well, but then who would?
Triptide-
Kind of a joke against ... my AV13 wall ...
GK -
1-0 but that one is probably deceptive. I should NOT have won but he had some terrible rolls and forgot about objectives.
So the point is, at least for me, the codex we have has been able to give me at least one list in every edition I've used it that was able to at least compete. In fact, it's a lot easier to play my armored list than it is to try and work out a CSM list without using the Nurgle/Drake combo or Spawn tide/etc.
For me, it's less about power level and more about being ready for a change. While I found a list that seems to do well, I've played it to death so I'm ready for a new book and yes, I'd agree with the person who said that if our new book comes out like the Wolves I'd be generally happy. I mean I don't want "Bloodblood on my blood blood" or the "blood talon" or blood gun" lol but yeah, some new tricks, maybe a new unit or two and some general points adjustments and I'll be good to go!
The fact that BA are relegated to spamming armor speaks volumes. And I don't know a person anywhere who would buy $400+ worth of vehicles just to have an even chance at winning a non-competitive 40k game.
Well, lords of war gaming, who are a VERY reliable rumor source, said that the necron rumors are completely wrong. Blood angels are the next codex and are scheduled for release in late november/early december.
If this is true, please allow me to humbly eat all of my words.
But have you ever played vs serpent spam with it? Adamantine lance? Triptide? The new GK quad Dreadknight lists? A player who is fantastic with their blood angels will still be fighting an uphill battle (and very well may lose) against some shmuck with a power list.
Some of these games were at the end of 6th and a few were obviously in 7th. I haven't played as much in 7th but here's my tally against those using BA:
Serpent Spam -
I am 2-1 against it using AV13 wall.
Adamantine lance -
haven't played it, probably wouldn't fare well, but then who would?
Triptide-
Kind of a joke against ... my AV13 wall ...
GK -
1-0 but that one is probably deceptive. I should NOT have won but he had some terrible rolls and forgot about objectives.
So the point is, at least for me, the codex we have has been able to give me at least one list in every edition I've used it that was able to at least compete. In fact, it's a lot easier to play my armored list than it is to try and work out a CSM list without using the Nurgle/Drake combo or Spawn tide/etc.
For me, it's less about power level and more about being ready for a change. While I found a list that seems to do well, I've played it to death so I'm ready for a new book and yes, I'd agree with the person who said that if our new book comes out like the Wolves I'd be generally happy. I mean I don't want "Bloodblood on my blood blood" or the "blood talon" or blood gun" lol but yeah, some new tricks, maybe a new unit or two and some general points adjustments and I'll be good to go!
th3maninblak wrote: Well, lords of war gaming, who are a VERY reliable rumor source, said that the necron rumors are completely wrong. Blood angels are the next codex and are scheduled for release in late november/early december.
If this is true, please allow me to humbly eat all of my words.
Iirc the current BA codex is from 2010. That's just 4 years - too early to get desperate.
For your information, 4-th ed ork codex was released in January 2008 - and we've just got an update in June 2014. That's 6.5 years.
Dark eldar are from 2010 too and they've just got a new book. Just wait a bit and you'll be fine. It's not like GW doesn't want to support blood angels no more.
However, i understand that it's severely outdated in terms of being designed to a completely different edition. And note that GW's last 7-th codexes are very kind towards mellee.
koooaei wrote: Iirc the current BA codex is from 2010. That's just 4 years - too early to get desperate.
For your information, our 4-th ed ork codex was released in January 2008 - and we've just got an update in June 2014. That's 6.5 years.
Dark eldar are from 2010 too and they've just got a new book. Just wait a bit and you'll be fine. It's not like GW doesn't want to support blood angels no more.
Pretty much this. It isn't like it has been an eternity since the last codex. Still, most people are clamoring for a new codex because BA are bottom tier. Problem is, I doubt a new codex is going to drastically change that.
koooaei wrote: Iirc the current BA codex is from 2010. That's just 4 years - too early to get desperate.
For your information, our 4-th ed ork codex was released in January 2008 - and we've just got an update in June 2014. That's 6.5 years.
Dark eldar are from 2010 too and they've just got a new book. Just wait a bit and you'll be fine. It's not like GW doesn't want to support blood angels no more.
Pretty much this. It isn't like it has been an eternity since the last codex. Still, most people are clamoring for a new codex because BA are bottom tier. Problem is, I doubt a new codex is going to drastically change that.
7-th books show capability to put out quite decent mellee builds. I guess, BA will find their place in this context.
I mean, they've made footslogging choppaboyz viable! Who could have imagined that judging from a 4-th codex perspective within a 7-th ed ruleset.
koooaei wrote: Iirc the current BA codex is from 2010. That's just 4 years - too early to get desperate.
For your information, 4-th ed ork codex was released in January 2008 - and we've just got an update in June 2014. That's 6.5 years.
Dark eldar are from 2010 too and they've just got a new book. Just wait a bit and you'll be fine. It's not like GW doesn't want to support blood angels no more.
However, i understand that it's severely outdated in terms of being designed to a completely different edition. And note that GW's last 7-th codexes are very kind towards mellee.
The release date of the current BA codex is not the point.
GW has managed to release all codices in a shorter cycle and BA as well as Necrons are the only factions that are missing.
From this pattern we will see both codices updated in short time.
The big question will then be what we could expect next?
koooaei wrote: Iirc the current BA codex is from 2010. That's just 4 years - too early to get desperate.
For your information, 4-th ed ork codex was released in January 2008 - and we've just got an update in June 2014. That's 6.5 years.
Dark eldar are from 2010 too and they've just got a new book. Just wait a bit and you'll be fine. It's not like GW doesn't want to support blood angels no more.
However, i understand that it's severely outdated in terms of being designed to a completely different edition. And note that GW's last 7-th codexes are very kind towards mellee.
The release date of the current BA codex is not the point.
GW has managed to release all codices in a shorter cycle and BA as well as Necrons are the only factions that are missing.
From this pattern we will see both codices updated in short time.
The big question will then be what we could expect next?
I have a feeling that after necrons and BA get updated, theyll move on to fantasy. The last WHFB dex came out in like... april? So updating the last few softcover army books before 2016 would be my bet.
koooaei wrote: Iirc the current BA codex is from 2010. That's just 4 years - too early to get desperate.
For your information, 4-th ed ork codex was released in January 2008 - and we've just got an update in June 2014. That's 6.5 years.
Dark eldar are from 2010 too and they've just got a new book. Just wait a bit and you'll be fine. It's not like GW doesn't want to support blood angels no more.
However, i understand that it's severely outdated in terms of being designed to a completely different edition. And note that GW's last 7-th codexes are very kind towards mellee.
The release date of the current BA codex is not the point.
GW has managed to release all codices in a shorter cycle and BA as well as Necrons are the only factions that are missing.
From this pattern we will see both codices updated in short time.
The big question will then be what we could expect next?
I have a feeling that after necrons and BA get updated, theyll move on to fantasy. The last WHFB dex came out in like... april? So updating the last few softcover army books before 2016 would be my bet.
Well, I hope that after updating BA and Crons the 40k codices stay untouched for a while.
I disagree that Blood Angels are boring or not important. There are unique aspects and units in the BA Army for one, then there is the history of 40K they were involved in if you will. The BA primarch fell in a one on one battle with Horus, Sanguinius in fact, had wounded Horus which allowed the Emperor to kill him. So the Blood Angels were there in the final battle with the War Master. They remained loyal. So there is a bit of important history that is behind them. I think they remain a true 30K Estartes Chapter on through to the 40th millennium.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, I hope that after updating BA and Crons the 40k codices stay untouched for a while.
Care to elaborate?
What I mean is that edition seven should last for a while.
For this, the hard cover codices, all up to BA and Crons, should stay as they are until a new edition is set on stage.
In the meanwhile GW could update all codices and release them "at once" with the new edition.
But I guess this is not a viable option.
Well, I hope that after updating BA and Crons the 40k codices stay untouched for a while.
They really need to tone down eldar too.
The problem with that is that it starts us back down the codex update treadmill. A lot of the Eldar stuff, namely Wave Spam, could be fixed with errata. If they go ahead and update that Codex, why wouldn't they go ahead and update Tau, and C:SM, and so on. I would like it better if they started making new models for those "older" codices and released the rules for them as dataslates. Or even if they released new sculpts of old characters and started retiring the Finecast models.
Of course, this is after they give a good update to the BA, of course.
I'll say what I always say, from one Black Templars player to his bloodcrazed brethren; be careful when wishing for updated rules. You might just get it.
Well, I hope that after updating BA and Crons the 40k codices stay untouched for a while.
They really need to tone down eldar too.
They won't
I think that the cycle will start again chronologically beginning with CSM.
40k is just a game not to be meant for competitive play.
If you want a competitive tabletop, go WMH with steamroller.
Apparently the floodgates have broken open in regards to the angels, with 4 sources in the last 36 hours speaking up about them being slated for somewhere between mid november and early december. I would like to think this thread had something to do with it (i kid, of course).
Soooo... can we get a thread up on the rumor section of this forum?
Well, against an armored tank company or an AV13 wall my Seer Council has a field day.
Once the unit is inside the enemy formation, the army breaks apart.
I've done it several times. It has always worked.
lol ... I'm not sure that really says anything at all about BA ... Congratulations on making one of the most OP units in the game work I guess? I mean if "But SEER COUNCIL!" is the argument, then CSM, DA, DE, IG,and Nids all have issues too and those are new books ... Something isn't "bad" because it can't beat the Council. The Council is "bad" because so little can beat it. Think about that ... lol/jk
The fact that BA are relegated to spamming armor speaks volumes. And I don't know a person anywhere who would buy $400+ worth of vehicles just to have an even chance at winning a non-competitive 40k game.
Anyone who's been playing for a while probably has enough Rhinos that they can proxy what they're missing. Plus, you don't have to buy everything at full price right from GW. There's plenty of discounters and my store even has a bitz box (I picked up two of my dakka preds. for a total of 40 bucks - just had to kit bash a few parts and repaint).
It's also NOT the only list they are relegated to. Drop pd angels works pretty well from what I've seen (I just don't play it for my BA because my Red Hunters are a DP/Airforce army and I want something different for my BA), Dread armies can catch people by surprise and there's several Death Company lists floating around that can be scary. My point wasn't that this was the only list ... just that it's the one I have the models for and it does well, but I'd like a change soon.
Plus, at this point, like I said above, it looks like most of the newer books are also now kind of stuck with mono builds in a lot of cases. There aren't many armies that have multiple "good" lists.
Apparently the floodgates have broken open in regards to the angels, with 4 sources in the last 36 hours speaking up about them being slated for somewhere between mid november and early december. I would like to think this thread had something to do with it (i kid, of course).
That would be cool! Hopefully it's true. While they are not nearly as bad as the web makes out, we do need some points adjustments at the very least.
Tycho wrote: It's also NOT the only list they are relegated to. Drop pd angels works pretty well from what I've seen (I just don't play it for my BA because my Red Hunters are a DP/Airforce army and I want something different for my BA)
I haven't seen this firsthand, but I kind of have a hard time seeing this working well. Either you're taking Tac Squads, which are more expensive than other codices equivalents and lackluster in comparison, or you're taking Assault Squads, which only have half the damage output since they don't get bolters (although can take an extra special weapon if you take 10 models, granted). It might work if you're also dropping some Furiosos with them, but my main problem with non-AV13 wall BA is that by taking their infantry, you're accentuating one of their main weaknesses: most of their models are overcosted due to the Codex's age. That's the main advantage of the AV13 wall IMHO, that it minimizes points inefficiencies in favour of units which are comparably costed to the newer 'Dexes. Not saying that you couldn't make DPBA work, but you're essentially playing with a handicap just due to the Codex itself.
5x Assault Marines w/ 1 meltagun, Sgt as 2x Infernus Pistol - 140 points (in a Pod).
Two of these is a good start. You get 4x ObSec units, two anti-tank drops, and you're a bit of a nuisance for not a lot of points.
Add in three Fragiosos and you've got five Pods for less than 800 points; three for punking troops, and two for tanks.
That leaves 1,000 or so points for the rest of the army (depending on point levels) which is enough to get a force that's not so piddly it will fall right over.
Something like that. It's from the tactics thread on Competitive Blood Angels. Like any other list it def. has its ups and downs and you do have to play carefully and make good choices but it can be pretty good.
