Over in another thread people were discussing reasons that they stopped playing and one poster made the comment that all of our guesses were uneducated.
And I have to agree. We are all just guessing on why everybody else has stopped playing based on our own opinions.
So why not get a bit educated and get a sample of why people who have stopped playing say they have stopped.
I have left it open to multiple choice answers because it typically is not just one reason someone stops playing.
You forgot an option: Do not like sloppy rules with no thought to balance.
For me it was a combination of the increased prices, the company's actions towards everybody (players and others) and the aforementioned not included rules issues.
Rather, I originally stopped playing because the game store near me shut down and there was nobody to play with for years, but the reasons above are the reason I haven't started playing again, so I think they still count.
When 7th dropped, I saw it as a quick moneygrab that would force me to pay for an expensive book that changed very little and what did change were changes I detested, such as psychic phase, LOW's, Unbound and Maelstrom. I realized that GW no longer cares about the game and are only interested in fleecing their shrinking customer base.
It was a combination of rules, company practices and pricing.
MWHistorian wrote: When 7th dropped, I saw it as a quick moneygrab that would force me to pay for an expensive book that changed very little and what did change were changes I detested, such as psychic phase, LOW's, Unbound and Maelstrom. I realized that GW no longer cares about the game and are only interested in fleecing their shrinking customer base.
It was a combination of rules, company practices and pricing.
This +1. I am not totally out of the hobby and do spend time at the FLGS socially. But 7th edition really drove off a lot of people I know, and I haven't been able to bring myself to want to get organized around it again.
I have been playing 40K since RT days (skipped 4th because life happens). I always had hope that GW would fix the problems that plagued the game; balance issues and prices for example. When 7th dropped, I finally realized that not only GW doesn't have any intention to fix these problems, they made it worse. Unbound, Lords of war, psychic phase were the exact opposite of what I thought was fun. What kept me in the game so long was the fluff. I played Word Bearers. In order to have a slight chance of winning, I had to break from their fluff. Now 7th says screw the fluff and everyone can summon demons and be best buddies with their arch nemesis. Destroying the fluff of the game took away the last reason to play. I still have a 2000 PT traitor guard army that I am converting and painting but I won't play it until the game changes. For now, I'm playing Warmachin, Infinity and X Wing and having more fun than I ever did with 40K.
I'm still in 40k but my reasons for leaving Lord of the Rings back in 2008 might still apply.
- Fed up with the costs and apparent price gouging
- No one to play with
- New hobbies
- Game felt like it was going to be abandoned since the movies had all come out and GW could no longer ride their coattails
lustigjh wrote: I'm still in 40k but my reasons for leaving Lord of the Rings back in 2008 might still apply.
- Fed up with the costs and apparent price gouging
- No one to play with
- New hobbies
- Game felt like it was going to be abandoned since the movies had all come out and GW could no longer ride their coattails
Have you seen the new Lego LOTR setups? Much less expensive and much more interesting, if you ask me.
MWHistorian wrote: I realized that GW no longer cares about the game and are only interested in fleecing their shrinking customer base.
This is what I ment by stating a personal view as the universal truth. And I don´t think this is true. I find it quite realistic that there are countless employees working at GW in different roles that care about the game, and like I mentioned in another thread their actions to affect gameplay can ( and most probably are ) affected by their superiors and other factors on some level.
MWHistorian wrote: I realized that GW no longer cares about the game and are only interested in fleecing their shrinking customer base.
This is what I ment by stating a personal view as the universal truth. And I don´t think this is true. I find it quite realistic that there are countless employees working at GW in different roles that care about the game, and like I mentioned in another thread their actions to affect gameplay can ( and most probably are ) affected by their superiors and other factors on some level.
It doesn't matter if individuals care about the game if the company as a whole doesn't and that said company is actively malicious towards its own fans, independent retailers and the tabletop wargame hobby in general.
Hmmm I still play every now and again when someone feels like playing. However I haven't bought anything from GW for about a year now.
Personally the prices and subpar rules have driven down my participation, I also dislike the company believing my favorite part of the hobby is "buying".
DarknessEternal wrote: Thanks for providing me a thread full of people to add to Ignore. It's easier this way.
You go girl. Seriously, why not be open to other people's perspectives on the game? I don't think there's any ragequitting in this thread, this is mostly people offering valid opinions on GW products.
DarknessEternal wrote: Thanks for providing me a thread full of people to add to Ignore. It's easier this way.
Honest question, sincerely asked, what do you get out of posting in the manner that you do?
The only time I ever see you post is this sort of slightly aggressive, confrontational nonsense that isn't even pertinent to the discussion at hand.
Genuinely, don't you think you'd get more out of Dakka by being a little more, well, friendly? Or, maybe, you could dedicate your time to something that doesn't provoke you the way that spending time on this site seems to?
techsoldaten wrote: this is mostly people offering valid opinions on GW products.
As a sidenote, there are around 4 different threads with this subject existing on the forums at almost any given time. I´m curious to as to why so many who have "left" GW/40K are so very active on the 40K forums though. Sincerely. Nothing hidden behind this question.
jasper76 wrote: This question inspires me to ask another, although I don't think it would be a very helpful thing to ask in a dedicated thread.
If you have stopped playing 40k, why do you spend time on a message board devoted to 40k?
Eh just because you've stopped playing the tabletop game itself doesn't mean you can't like the lore and setting. I'd also assume the hope that GW might change, plays a part. Hell if GW released a more balanced and complete version of Kill-Team, I honestly doubt we'll see 40k change directions now, I might go out of my way to try to get people to play the game instead of just playing if asked.
Alternatively maybe they've been posting here for a long time and want to keep talking with people they know through the boards.
Though thinking about it, this thread should probably be in Dakka Discussions.
Or are the burps of Kirby the thing you are gonna go with until the end of time ( like the one about being grateful for miniatures and liking to buy them. )
Kirby is history anyway, and his words, despite "officially" doing so do not in actuality reflect Games Workshop and their views and agendas as a whole. Besides, many of the things Kirby has said have been misinterpreted or he has worded them poorly.
So can we just get over Kirby and his musings? Some of the generic statements made by GW also seem like they are just written a bit hastily. I don´t believe for one second that any employee of GW believes hobbyists are "grateful for buying miniatures." - it was obviously ment in a way that people are happy about good looking ( subjective, inb4 banter) miniatures and they are glad that they can provide such a thing. It was poorly worded, among some other statements, but I wonder how some really can´t see they didn´t intend them all that way.
As a non-native english speaker it´s as clear as day to me as I have to actively think about what the words mean. Perhaps a native english speaker just reads it and goes omg.
jasper76 wrote: This question inspires me to ask another, although I don't think it would be a very helpful thing to ask in a dedicated thread.
If you have stopped playing 40k, why do you spend time on a message board devoted to 40k?
Hahaha. I think there are former 40k players who have common DNA with angry Diablo 3 players that also have a need to go on Blizzard forums and post for months (years!) after they rage quit. They just feel burned and bitter, lol. There are a small number of people who claim to hold out for changes to the game after which they might return, but I think that these are pretty few, and in any case, Dakka is the wrong place to express that (a written letter to GW would be more effective, though probably pointless).
For me, once I leave a game, I don't really look back; I only have so many productive minutes in my life, so I'd rather spend my energy on something I like
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SilverDevilfish wrote: Eh just because you've stopped playing the tabletop game itself doesn't mean you can't like the lore and setting.
Yes, for sure. The number of hours I actually *play* the game is tiny compared to enjoying the lore and working with the models. But a group of people (always the same people ) come off as very angry and bitter about GW, like it's personal.
I mean, to my knowledge, GW has never run over anyone's puppy End of the day, it's just a game, right? You don't like it.. there are so many other ways to entertain yourself, why blow your time complaining about it?
I stopped playing because I had other hobbies. Then I came back and realized I don't like the rules, at all.
So now I am writing my own set of rules based on fusing basic 40K mechanics with elements from far better rule systems. The funny part is, playtesting it has given my old friends and I a reason to play 40K again.
In the meantime, we still play Space Hulk and Necromunda from time to time.
RunicFIN wrote: Has GW treated any one of you badly, though?
Or are the burps of Kirby you are gonna go with until the end of time ( like the one about being grateful for miniatures and liking to buy them. )
Kirby is history anyway, and his words, despite "officially" doing so do not in actuality reflect Games Workshop and their views and agendas as a whole. Besides, many of the things Kirby has said have been misinterpreted or he has worded them poorly.
So can we just get over Kirby and his musings?
While he's still the Chairman and one of the highest single stakeholders (and the highest individual stakeholder by a country mile,) and while the majority of the board are there because they were put there, at least in part, by him, he is, and will remain, an integral part of GW and hold major sway over the company and it's approach.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: I stopped playing because I had other hobbies. Then I came back and realized I don't like the rules, at all.
So now I am writing my own set of rules based on fusing basic 40K mechanics with elements from far better rule systems. The funny part is, playtesting it has given my old friends and I a reason to play 40K again.
In the meantime, we still play Space Hulk and Necromunda from time to time.
Space Hulk is such a good game. Advanced HeroQuest and Bloodbowl are two other GW boardgames my friends and I still play from time to time. If they re-released BB, I'm sure sales would be nuts.
When I quit years ago I was just not that interested anymore. I was just bored with it. Being 16 and having a girlfriend also attributed very strongly, so I went with new hobby.
Though prices did contribute. It was just too expensive to pay for beer, sports equipment and warhammer for me when I was 16.
Combination of "rules suck" and "found a better game". Back in 6th I was already getting tired of the broken rules, poor balance, and GW's attitude that there's nothing wrong because it's a "beer and pretzels" game, so when I discovered X-Wing it was very easy for the new game to take over most of my gaming time. And the games of 7th I've played since mostly quitting 40k have done nothing to make me rethink that decision.
I didn't quit GW but I did pick up WMH. It was mostly the rules that did it for me. I love the setting, aesthetics of the models, quality of the models, the amount of options I have to build a list, and because of all that the price wouldn't bother me at all...if the rules were even halfway decent. PP stuff is just as expensive if not more expensive for lower quality models that don't look as good. However, the rules are infinitely better and the company actually seems like they give a crap about customer satisfaction instead of just how big the next dividend will be.
1. No longer liked the rules or enjoyed playing it.
2. Found a new game that I like more.
3. Can not afford to keep playing "keep up with the joneses".
4. Do not like the company any longer do to their actions against other companies (trying to claim ownership of the phrase "space marines" given they were only one of the LAST to do so).
ChazSexington wrote: When I quit years ago I was just not that interested anymore. I was just bored with it. Being 16 and having a girlfriend also attributed very strongly, so I went with new hobby.
Though prices did contribute. It was just too expensive to pay for beer, sports equipment and warhammer for me when I was 16.
The dreaded teenage female, the end of many a player's tabletop career. Miniatures are supposed to act as a deterrent to their mammary glands, but it sounds your Space Marines failed in this endeavor.
DarknessEternal wrote: Thanks for providing me a thread full of people to add to Ignore. It's easier this way.
Anytime, sunshine! I suspect I'm already on that list, though. Man, I remember when I used to get really mad when people had different opinions than I did... Elementary school was such a long time ago.
Addressing the subject of the thread:
TL;DR: Bad rules, poor value for my money (your mileage may vary), legal bullying, 80's/90's mindset, complete unwillingness to understand the modern hobby game market, general incompetence.
I actually wrote a much, much longer summary, but I'm sure no one cares.
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jasper76 wrote: This question inspires me to ask another, although I don't think it would be a very helpful thing to ask in a dedicated thread.
If you have stopped playing 40k, why do you spend time on a message board devoted to 40k?
If you mean "40K general discussion", well, I don't post here much.
If you mean DakkaDakka, it's because, despite the name, it isn't "devoted" to 40K, and there is quite a lot of general tabletop news and discussion going on here. If you want "devoted to 40K", I know of a different forum that I am not a member of and never visit that fits that description.
jasper76 wrote: This question inspires me to ask another, although I don't think it would be a very helpful thing to ask in a dedicated thread.
If you have stopped playing 40k, why do you spend time on a message board devoted to 40k?
If you mean "40K general discussion", well, I don't post here much.
If you mean DakkaDakka, it's because, despite the name, it isn't "devoted" to 40K, and there is quite a lot of general tabletop news and discussion going on here. If you want "devoted to 40K", I know of a different forum that I am not a member of and never visit that fits that description.
I just meant the 40k boards, and I'm just curious...I'm not judging or anything.
jasper76 wrote: This question inspires me to ask another, although I don't think it would be a very helpful thing to ask in a dedicated thread.
If you have stopped playing 40k, why do you spend time on a message board devoted to 40k?
If you mean "40K general discussion", well, I don't post here much.
If you mean DakkaDakka, it's because, despite the name, it isn't "devoted" to 40K, and there is quite a lot of general tabletop news and discussion going on here. If you want "devoted to 40K", I know of a different forum that I am not a member of and never visit that fits that description.
I just meant the 40k boards, and I'm just curious...I'm not judging or anything.
For me personally, it's because I like to keep tabs on the "state of the union" as it were. I keep a rudimentary knowledge of the game as it allows me to participate in certain conversations with friends down at my FLGS and also, much like Wayne and MWH I would love to get back into the game, but GW seems to want to stymie us at every opportunity and it's better to keep a bit of track than have to start from scratch.
Ah. Well, then I'll go with what Psienesis said. Some people still like the background (I know I do), some people want to keep tabs on what direction the game is going in for whatever reason, some people still like to discuss the miniatures themselves, etc.
Some started playing 40K long ago and like to reminisce about how it used to be, and/or hope that one day maybe 40K will be a game they want to play again, though this will likely not come to pass any time soon.
I imagine a number people have 'quit' 40k, but still hold on to an army or a few for a combination of either occasional gaming with friends who play, painting/modelling projects, or just a love of the universe and ability to use the models with other 40k products, like the RPGs.
Really, it'd probably be more accurate to ask why people have either stopped keeping fully up to date with the latest edition/codex or why they're no longer pouring money into 40k.
@Grimtuff
DMB is just a child seeking attention. Best to ignore his childish and petty posts and hit the triangle of friendship. I'm sure a mod will come in and clean it up. Already happened once this thread.
I started trying other games and found a lot happening elsewhere, whilst 40k got bloated and left me behind a bit. After 20 years of basically the same old stories and settings, it got dull. Sold a load of stuff, still got my original Wolves army I used from 2nd onwards, but just don't play often. Once a year maybe? Not bought anything since Lukas Trickster came out. Still like to keep up on GW general news, but Dakka has other boards than just 40k.
I'm in pretty much the same category as a lot of other posters: the attitude of the company, ranging from suing everyone (including children's book authors and third party bitz makers), making large amounts of the product Direct-Only, and coming up with more and more ways to get money out of players without actually doing things for the game (overpriced books...look at the digital edition costs!! ) has been making me feel like I can't buy from them in good conscience.
Some of these company attitude issues leak into the game itself- the army inflation that has been rampant since 3rd and has hit insane proportions in 6th and 7th has just been too much.
I like to post in the 40k forum because (a) I like the people here , (b) I like to keep in the loop with 40k happenings, and (c) I would honestly *like* to play the game, it still holds my attention now...GW just does such a good job being James Bond villain-esque characters that I just haven't made it back into the game.
I've started playing Dystopian Wars and All Quiet on the Martian Front, so I mainly come to Dakka looking at News (which I feel they have the best of in terms of tabletop games!) and hoping these games will become more popular. Plus 40k chat is always interesting.
feth damn it, and I've been trying for years to get you to quit posting.
Time to double down then, I suppose.
Guess we're going to have to be friends, then!
Ratius wrote: For those of us that still play and enjoy it, is there any point posting in this thread?
I never see people run out of a thread for liking something, it's only when they start getting derogatory that problems arise. I think most of us like 40k, there are just a lot of issues with GW/40k that are attracting the attention of a number of folks.
Ratius wrote: Haha, it'll take more than that to get you on my ignore Dont worry, I was just being sarky. I'll leave yee to it!
Fair enough. I suppose you could always explain what keeps you playing, and maybe any gripes that would get you to reconsider 40k. Or something, I don't know.
Anyhoo, combination of 2/3 the FLGS closing down, nobody wanting to buy 7th and people in the last FLGS all switching to, WMH, Infinity, Malifuex (spelling?) leading the owner to stop stocking 40k and then saying "if I don't stock it I don't want people asking about a game they may see being played and having to say we don't stock it". Which means I won't be getting in any games with the 30k stuff I just bought
I have actually *quit* warmachine, and will probably never go back. 40k is still a nightmare of bad editing and odd rules, so i don't play it. All of that aside, i can still build and paint GW kits vecause they rule despite their ridiculous price.
I never quit. I haven't found a game I'm confident enough in to switch to. Barring collectible minis, I can't think of a single miniature game that has lasted for more than two years in my area. If I'll have to start driving to Chicago to play the game in a couple of months, it just isn't worth my time.
So all the people in this thread that "dumped" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your ex" this way. I wish GW could file restraining orders against you.
Honestly you could have put this in the "general discussion" area but you instead decided to troll the "40k general discussion" area. Got it....
lobbywatson wrote: So all the people in this thread that "dumped" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your ex" this way. I wish GW could file restraining orders against you.
Honestly you could have put this in the "general discussion" area but you instead decided to troll the "40k general discussion" area. Got it....
So all the people that "enjoy" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your GW haters" this way. Dakkadakka could file a restraining order against you.
Honestly yoi could have "not posted in this thread" but instead decided to troll the "thread specifically meant for people to talk about reasons they have left or may leave".
Got it.
Any more insights to share? We'd all be thrilled to hear you whine about a thread you could have, I dunno, maybe ignored. We've to hear you bitch about people bitching, that wouldn't be ironic at all and would be super on topic and productive.
The only one of my reasons that was up there was "Got a new hobby."
Since 2007, I have played World of Warcraft for more than 10,000 hours, not counting time spent on dozens of characters that got deleted or re-rolled for one reason or another. That's over 400 days. I've also been playing Star Trek Online and Planetside 2 since 2013, and have logged more than 2,000 hours on Star Trek Online in under two years. (only about 200-300 hours on Planetside 2 thus far)
Another reason was that I had nowhere to go, in terms of collecting my armies. Barring new units coming out, in 2011 I had pretty much everything I would ever use. At almost exactly the same time, I started to lose interest in WH40k. There was nothing new to try, all my games became just different combinations of the same thing against different combinations of the same thing. In short, I had nothing new and exciting to look forward to trying out in the next game, and it became boring.
Another reason is that I ended up having to move my gaming table to the smallest room in the house, with barely enough room to pull out a chair on either side of the board. I had to move it there because one day when my younger brother was having a party, they'd used my gaming board (with a game still in-progress on it) to put their laptops and drinks on, and had just moved the miniatures out of the way. Anyways, whenever I would play WH40k for a couple of hours in the new location, the inevitable outcome was that I'd be warm and sweaty, my legs would be stiff and in pain from standing up for two hours while frequently leaning forward with arms extended without being able to steady myself on anything (the gaming table was basically a 4x6 sheet of plywood with 4 legs screwed into it, and every time I leaned my 230 pound self against it, it felt like it was about to break), and my throat would be sore from talking so much. Every single time. It made it very unpleasant to even think about playing another round. And it didn't help that the family pets would insist on joining me and my mom in the gaming room EVERY time, and the dog would lie on the floor right where people needed to stand (did I mention the cramped space?)
Also, it was a time when my best Internet friend had gotten a massive hardware upgrade (went from booting up in 45 minutes and crashing when playing Youtube videos to booting up in seconds and being able to play MMOs) and so we were finally able to play video games together.
Put it all together. One of my preferred hobbies was physically unpleasant to partake in, required being in a cramped room with pets getting in the way, and had gotten stale and felt like there was nothing to look forward to. Meanwhile, my other hobby was something that I could do while sitting down, could enjoy with a dear friend, had better-looking visuals, and took place in a part of the world where I'm actually somewhat comfortable interacting with strangers on a regular basis. It's really no wonder why I prefer video games to tabletop gaming.
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FacelessMage wrote: Actually I thought because this was directly about 40K that it belonged here. And that it would get moved if I put it anywhere else.
Also my primary motivation was so that people would have an unscientific poll to reference.
I'm kinda wondering how you'd do a statistically valid poll for something as niche as tabletop gaming.
Toofast wrote: I didn't quit GW but I did pick up WMH. It was mostly the rules that did it for me. I love the setting, aesthetics of the models, quality of the models, the amount of options I have to build a list, and because of all that the price wouldn't bother me at all...if the rules were even halfway decent. PP stuff is just as expensive if not more expensive for lower quality models that don't look as good. However, the rules are infinitely better and the company actually seems like they give a crap about customer satisfaction instead of just how big the next dividend will be.
I like this post. It seems to be a more honest answer that some are willing to give at least.
I'll agree that PP seems to be a better run company from a gaming perspective , they aren't burdened by producing for a stock holder vs a Gamer. I really do hope that GW is bought out one day and no longer has to worry about such things in a business that is as fickle as this one.
That being said , I'm also disappointed in those who come to this board to tell you how much they hate GW in thread after thread (not referring to this one, because in this one the poster was asking a question related to it) and try to convince everyone why they need to quit with them or just in general spread their hate.
There is also a core group who let their hate blind them to anything the company even does that's remotely good,heck it only seems to make them angrier that they did in fact do something that people like, and recently there have been some good trends. (in my opinion and also in a lot of others). I.E. Non-Codex model releases + Free rules online or rules in WD to go along with, Cheap starter boxes (SW vs Orks or Blood Angels vs Tyranids) , re-releasing books in softcover again.
I'm in no way a GW fan boy ( I also play WMH) and wish they would change some of their just ridiculous policies , hell starting with making pricing even remotely make sense would be a good start I.E. $30+ dollars for 1 model but that same price for 10 or more models in one box that are the same size as the individual model thats going for $30+.
My point is things could certainly be better but they aren't always as bad as some want to make it out to be. I've learned that very few people like change, its just human nature.
BlackArmour wrote: There is also a core group who let their hate blind them to anything the company even does that's remotely good,heck it only seems to make them angrier that they did in fact do something that people like, and recently there have been some good trends. (in my opinion and also in a lot of others). I.E. Non-Codex model releases + Free rules online or rules in WD to go along with, Cheap starter boxes (SW vs Orks or Blood Angels vs Tyranids) , re-releasing books in softcover again.
It's not so much being 'blinded by hate' as that so much of what GW gets 'right', they do so in a way that either could be better, or seems geared to annoy people.
Re-releasing books in softcover is great - but not if they're still more expensive than they should be.
Cheap box sets are great - but not if they're a limited release that sells out within 3 minutes of release, with no real advance warning that they're coming or that they will be available only in such small quantities.
There are a lot of us who are more than happy to say so when we see GW do something right. It's just frustrating how often to do something that's almost right, but that in some way manages to miss a mark that could have very easily been hit with a little more thought, or just, you know, communicating with their player base.
RatBot wrote: Elementary school was such a long time ago.
Says the guy who has in the past resulted in the most direct namecalling I´ve seen on the forums...
Anyway, let´s just leave the "Post-GW" people in their own club and peace. It´s not like discussion about why someone quit ages ago and still goes on about after a year is doing anything for us who are playing and enjoying the game just fine.
This is a forum for the discussion of 40k and related games, no? One doesn't have to play something to discuss it, otherwise millions of sports fans would suddenly have nothing to talk about. Likewise, one doesn't have to like something as it stands to talk about it, otherwise everyone would all have the same opinion.
I'm in no way a GW fan boy ( I also play WMH) and wish they would change some of their just ridiculous policies , hell starting with making pricing even remotely make sense would be a good start I.E. $30+ dollars for 1 model but that same price for 10 or more models in one box that are the same size as the individual model thats going for $30+.
My point is things could certainly be better but they aren't always as bad as some want to make it out to be. I've learned that very few people like change, its just human nature.
That's how it starts. Then you play long enough to realize that the changes aren't being made for any positive reason. Then you get called a 'hater'.
I´ll never understand why continously advertise that you have quit doing anything. And byt this I do mean only the individuals who do it continously. You have this same personality type in pretty much any game forum, be it war- or videogames.
So bitter that one needs to go on about it even after months, venting frustration?
Attention seeking?
Trying to achieve some unfathomable goal?
Needing peer support from other quitters?
Feeling a remotely narcissist need to make ones negative issues be known throughout the internet?
Somehow find it fun to talk about quitting with others ( similiar to peer support ) ?
Know most aren´t interested in hearing about it, and do it exactly because of that?
TL;DR: For me personally, it was a combination of burnout, disillusionment with the company attitude and direction, and finding other games that i prefered.
I played 40k extensively, and quite competitively back in third and fourth ed. And like it was for many folks, that abomination of an iron warriors/Chaos codex ultimately killed 4th ed through its mind boggling brokeness. For me, 40k never recovered. For me, ultimately though it was burnout - in the end all the games i played blurred into each other with the same lists and the same moves against the same lists with the same moves. I got bored, and disillusioned and pretty much walked away from active gaming for a year or two. A while later i felt that familiar "itch" to get back into it. looked into fifth ed., and almost in the same heartbeat knew it wasnt right for me. i had a lot of ideas for armies that simply would not perform on the table top because they werent one of the handful of dominant builds, and the prices had jumped to the extent that i did not fancy spending a few hundred quid on display pieces for my shelves. to be honest, it reinforced my belief that GW isnt interested in "improving" the game, merely "changing" it, and frankly, that wasnt good enough. at the same time i glanced up at my khador and cygnar battleboxes and remembered how much fun my few starter games were. Looked into Warmachine, and the Mk2 fieldtest was htting. OK, so here is a company doing a free, open access world wide beta test to iron out their rules set? Had me sold. I decided i'd get a bit serious about warmachine. checked out the RPG material and delved into the lore. found myself hooked, found myself loving the game, and not missing playing 40k.
Now, to be fair, i stayed "interested" (and to an extent, still do) in 40k because of the fluff. unfortunately, the recent fluff - grey knights, codex:comedy robots, chaos etc hasnt been stuff i've enjoyed. I still like the FW books to be fair, but when it comes to the codices etc i just felt it has really been dumbed down. that it was "better in my day". Which amusingly isnt true. the fluff is as it always has been. i've just gotten older. i want different things now. 40k lore was great for me as a teenager. As an adult, i've moved on. And I'm OK with that.
Last issues would be GW as a company. I am sympathetic to a lot of what they intend to do, but i think their implementation is shocking. I think they've burned a lot of bridges with their customer base with embargoes, legal actions, price rices, killing support for the game, and specialist games etc.
jasper76 wrote: This question inspires me to ask another, although I don't think it would be a very helpful thing to ask in a dedicated thread.
If you have stopped playing 40k, why do you spend time on a message board devoted to 40k?
to be fair, "playing" the game isnt the entirety of 40k.
For some, the lore, or painting/modelling is the big thing, and playing the game is an after thought or not done at all, or not that big of a deal. are they allowed to post?
In the same way, as an Irishman living abroad, i like to keep in touch with things that are happening at home on both a national level, and a local level. Im sure its the same for you Jasper. if you move away from your hometown/state, and any time you're back, or chatting to your mates/family who stayed home, you are going to want to stay in touch with whats going on. posting/reading a 40k board is the same for me. Just because i dont play doesnt mean i'm not interested. And if i'm interested, i have a right to get involved. I'm sure its the same for others.
Well, I'm still playing 40k: Necrons in apo games and GK in RTTs.
But I shelved my Eldar, too powerful for my liking.
The new game is WMH. I played Skorne in mk1 and started Cyriss in mk2.
RunicFIN wrote: I´ll never understand why continously advertise that you have quit doing anything. And byt this I do mean only the individuals who do it continously. You have this same personality type in pretty much any game forum, be it war- or videogames.
So bitter that one needs to go on about it even after months, venting frustration?
Attention seeking?
Trying to achieve some unfathomable goal?
Needing peer support from other quitters?
Feeling a remotely narcissist need to make ones negative issues be known throughout the internet?
Somehow find it fun to talk about quitting with others ( similiar to peer support ) ?
Know most aren´t interested in hearing about it, and do it exactly because of that?
I wonder if I should make a poll.
Seriously. For games I have quit I don't even bother with nowadays. My time is spent on the games I still DO play, not posting about why I quit those other games. Why would you even venture into the forums or discussion for games you no longer play or have interest in?
And I don't understand why price would make someone quit. Unless 75% of your army was removed from the codex after the update, your army is still there, and it's still playable. What "the price got too high" really means is "I couldn't afford to cheese anymore" or "they nerfed my army and I didn't want to buy new stuff". Because otherwise, the option should be "the price was too high for me to start playing" and not "the price was too high for me to KEEP playing".
RayND wrote: What "the price got too high" really means is "I couldn't afford to cheese anymore" or "they nerfed my army and I didn't want to buy new stuff".
Not always.
In my case, it just means that I refuse to pay $85 for a codex.
RayND wrote: My time is spent on the games I still DO play, not posting about why I quit those other games. Why would you even venture into the forums or discussion for games you no longer play or have interest in?
Exactly. I´ve quit probably hundreds of videogames before and a few wargames because there weren´t enough players ( like Confrontation ) but which I liked. Even the thought of actively complaining about the games, advertising that I´ve quit, especially for longer than a few days is just laughable.
I just can´t understand what is being achieved with that, or what purpose does it serve.
There are better games that provide a better bang to buck ratio. For £30 I can get 1 dreadought (maybe) that makes 8% of an army.
For £30 I can get a decent malifaux starter or an even more decent infinity starter + blister for a 200 pt game.
The rules are terrible for 40k and WFB. Their decent games (ie specailists) they shelved because NOT ENOUGH MODELS!
I quit towards the tail end of 5th mostly for balance reasons and because I had started playing Fantasy. It simply got to the point where I would show up at the club and look for games of either but it slowly became that every time I played 40k I was using whatever models I thought where cool and my opponent was bringing the same razorback spam led by Mephiston and there was no point actually playing the match out once I knew I was playing that guy.
I simply stopped bringing 40k to the club eventually. I had never considered myself 'out' of 40k but Fantasy was well and truly my main game at that point.
Then 6th edition hit and I thought it would revitalize my love of 40k. I got a demo game in at the then brand new GW store in my area and it just felt so much more clunky and unintuative when you are now trying to play a mass battle but need to remove casualties from the front and issue challenges and crap like that. As well the random terrain I had gotten used to ignoring in fantasy suddenly made a reappearance.
I never did pick up the 6th ed rulebook that day and that was when i considered myself 'out'. From then on it was only Fantasy. Until I tried Dystopian Wars and picked that up as my side game. More and more I enjoyed that and my fleet grew but I played it and Fantasy side by side for a long time.
Probably a year ago now I realized I had lost all enthusiasm for fantasy when the local club leader asked me for the entry fee to a tourney I thought I had paid for months before. As soon as i realized I hadn't I dropped that and paid for the Dyst one that was on the same day and went to that instead.
As for now, I play a lot of games that aren't GW. I come to Dakka in general because it is not a 40k site, or a GW games site, it is a wargaming site and I am still very big into wargaming.
As for visiting this sub forum specifically, I still enjoy the setting and the models but the game is complete rubbish. Some times i just poke my head in here though because I want to get back into 40k. I want it to be good. I'm still holding out hope it can be a game that can stand on the merits of it's mechanics one day instead of those mechanics killing any enthusiasm for the game.
Read that as "Cheap sex bots". What is wrong with me!?!
RunicFIN wrote:I just can´t understand what is being achieved with that, or what purpose does it serve.
How old are you, Runic? How long have you played 40k? I played 40k for about 15 years. I had over 10,000 points worth of models for half a dozen different armies, all of which I painted. Now it's basically all in storage, because after getting more and more disappointed with the rules, the prices, and the overall direction of the company, and spending less and less money on the game, I moved to a new city and I realized I didn't care enough to bring any 40k stuff with me.
But that doesn't mean I completely forgot about a setting I really enjoy, that's been a fairly integral part of my gaming hobby since childhood. I didn't lose my curiosity at what new models will come out (even if I don't like the aesthetic of a lot of them now and I'll never buy them). I'm still a wargamer in general too, and I like tinkering with rules. I get a lot of enjoyment out of seeing what's changed in the game, or trying to make my own 40k rulesets just for fun. I do feel a bit of schadenfreude when I see GW do something idiotic, but I also genuinely enjoy when they put out a good product.
For all those reasons, I still come to dakka to catch the latest in 40k news, offer my opinions on developments, and answer questions about fluff when I can. I do this even if I personally don't think the game is worth playing anymore, and the models aren't worth buying. And when someone makes a thread titled "Why do you still play 40k?" I don't crap all over it. So what's your excuse?
Seriously. For games I have quit I don't even bother with nowadays. My time is spent on the games I still DO play, not posting about why I quit those other games. Why would you even venture into the forums or discussion for games you no longer play or have interest in?
Because, as you say yourself, they might maintain an active interest in the game, regardless of other factors. Just because you don’t play doesn’t mean you can’t stay involved.
And I don't understand why price would make someone quit. Unless 75% of your army was removed from the codex after the update, your army is still there, and it's still playable.
Is it though? It may be playable in the sense that you can put in on the board, make some “pew pew” noises, roll some dice and move models around, but another question to ask is will it be “viable”? Will it be effective? Or will playing it be an exercise in frustration in trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?
My mate had three of his customised armies invalidated by GWs codex, and edition shifts. And I’ve heard horror stories from other people.
During the various edition shifts whole playstyles have been invalidated and made unviable. Third edition boiled down to either “rhino rush”, or “shoot the rhino rush” builds, fourth was 6man las/plas and assault cannon spam if you were marines, skimmer spam for anything else. Oh, and Iron Warriors. The third edition rhino rush builds? Dead, to all intents and purposes, because aside from skimmers, and especially in the case of transports, vehicles were death traps. Fifth, sixth and seventh did the same thing. My tau went from OK in fourth to paperweight by fifth. Still playable? Only in theory.
Then you have the various armies that have been discontinued, models that were removed etc.
What "the price got too high" really means is "I couldn't afford to cheese anymore" or "they nerfed my army and I didn't want to buy new stuff".
No. And you're being short sighted.
In the case of the former, that’s a bit melodramatic of you. Lets be clear: Its OK for people to want new stuff. New edition/expansion etc. new models. Go for it. As players, we all look forward to the new shinies, in any game we play. Equating that with being able to “afford to cheese” is both insensitive and inaccurate. No one buys “an army” and stops. There should always be new projects and expansions to keep you interested. But when those expansions come at the cost of invalidating what you have, it embitters people. Similarly, when expanding what you have comes up against the cynical ploys of halfing the contents of boxes for the same price (eg dire avengers) it gets peoples’ backs up. Frankly, the price is too high when im buying 10 models for £20 one day, and 5 of the same models for £20 the next day. That’s just downright cheeky.
In the case of the latter, yes, it’s a valid complaint. See above edition shifts. Third was rhino rush/shoot the rhino rush. Fourth was skimmer spam. Fifth was tankhammer. Sixth was fortifications, MCs and flyers. Etcetera. Having your army invalidated or nerfed into ineffectiveness is a pathetic and cynical ploy to force the purchase of shiny new models. Why is it a good thing to invalidate whole playstyles and collections? That’s not a clever strategy.
“I didn’t want to buy new stuff”? Yeah, how about we put in the full sentence? “I didn’t want to buy new stuff. I’ve seen GWs track record. They’ve broken,and invalidated armies and playstyles on a whim. I’m not buying into stuff that’s simply going to be made irrelevant in a couple of years, and will have to replace all over again”.
RayND wrote: My time is spent on the games I still DO play, not posting about why I quit those other games. Why would you even venture into the forums or discussion for games you no longer play or have interest in?
Exactly. I´ve quit probably hundreds of videogames before and a few wargames because there weren´t enough players ( like Confrontation ) but which I liked. Even the thought of actively complaining about the games, advertising that I´ve quit, especially for longer than a few days is just laughable.
I just can´t understand what is being achieved with that, or what purpose does it serve.
But why come on to moan about complainers? What purpose does that serve? What gives them any less right to have their say than you?
Or are we just ignoring the fact that people have valid points about the current direction of the game/ pricing and would love to get back into it, if only some issues were cleaned up.
There's more than just the tabletop aspect that keeps people interested as well as the large investment some may have in it.
As I've mentioned before, many people who have stopped playing may be willing to return to regular play, or have just stopped giving GW but continue to play occasionally.
Its not a black and white issue some posters may lead you to believe.
Besides, if these people didn't care, they wouldn't be posting. I'll I'm seeing are a bunch of people who still care about 40k and its universe, but are being put off by the actions of its parent company.
Not to mention the head scratchingly bizarre habit of complaining about people complaining. Its not like the intention of the thread wasn't totally clear from the title.
Blacksails wrote: As I've mentioned before, many people who have stopped playing may be willing to return to regular play, or have just stopped giving GW but continue to play occasionally.
Its not a black and white issue some posters may lead you to believe.
Besides, if these people didn't care, they wouldn't be posting. I'll I'm seeing are a bunch of people who still care about 40k and its universe, but are being put off by the actions of its parent company.
Not to mention the head scratchingly bizarre habit of complaining about people complaining. Its not like the intention of the thread wasn't totally clear from the title.
Yup. The Dakka branch of the GW PDF launches into action as soon as someone dare besmirch fair lady GW in her own board!
I would gladly play 40k again, but GW seems to want to stymie any attempt by doing stupid things and releasing crap rules.
I mean, how many stories have we all read of players who leave the game for a decade and then return to test the waters?
These same people may still enjoy the novels, fluff, video games, and RPGs. And, oddly enough, the 40k boards have the highest concentration of 40k related anything.
Its not weird, or abnormal, or even a bad thing we have discussions about why people have left, may leave, or have returned. It shows there's something more to 40k, and that GW is throwing it away with poor policies that drive consumers away.
The weirdest part is that some of the complaints people have that drove to them other companies are things even the most die hard GW/40k fan would agree would be great things to have or fix.
I just don't understand the divide some posters seem to want to create. An exclusive community of only those who profess an undying love of 40k and would never complain about GW. Its odd.
For me the reasons are many.
I like the idea of 40k but not the delivery. The rules are poor representations of the background, the models are becoming increasingly convolted and just ruin the world for me.
The game is too bloated and not very 'fair' (imbalance).
The price isn't bad for a set but because the game is setup to make models ineffective you have to buy more of them for an army (which is nonsense in its own right).
The fact that instead of improving the product they just keep making more 'crap' to throw on top.
Space Marines - the sheer over abundance of them bugs me
-First off is the forced exclusivity via-price.
If 40k was the only game I was interested in and the only game in town, there's a slim chance I might keep playing, but playing/buying 40k requires all of my gaming dollar (and then some…). I have deveoped more gaming interests than 40k to the point where I'm not willing to have it dominate my gaming hobby. My choice was made even easier when I saw what it would costto get codices and rules for the new edition.
-Second was finding games (emphasis on the plural) I like more.
I now play alot of indie games and skirmish games. I am probably playing and building armies for a half dozen games for what many folks invest in just one GW game. I've got several post apoc and fantasy warbands, alien invaders, a 10mm scale mech army, a 28mm Mecha company, Sci-Fi Romans, etc, etc, many of which see action with more than one ruleset.
-Third was finding other gamers who like these other games.
Forming a club of like minded "indie" gamers completely kicked 40k off my radar. The best thing 40k has going for it is the ubiquity of the system which means you'll always find an opponent. When I have regular opponents for a wider variety of better-and-cheaper games, there's just no point ot40k anymore.
I've held on to my 40k armies (still play Warpath and In The Emperor's Name from time to time) and I'm still slowly working on my squat army, but the current 40k rules are no longer part of my hobby.
RunicFIN wrote: I´ll never understand why continously advertise that you have quit doing anything. And byt this I do mean only the individuals who do it continously. You have this same personality type in pretty much any game forum, be it war- or videogames.
So bitter that one needs to go on about it even after months, venting frustration?
Attention seeking?
Trying to achieve some unfathomable goal?
Needing peer support from other quitters?
Feeling a remotely narcissist need to make ones negative issues be known throughout the internet?
Somehow find it fun to talk about quitting with others ( similiar to peer support ) ?
Know most aren´t interested in hearing about it, and do it exactly because of that?
I wonder if I should make a poll.
I have you on ignore but I saw this quote and had to ask.
Why must you be so insulting to people just because they have different opinions than you?
If you think we're wrong about GW, tell us why we're wrong about GW.
Mozzyfuzzy wrote: But why come on to moan about complainers? What purpose does that serve? What gives them any less right to have their say than you?
Didn´t say anything about rights, and I even excluded people who occasionally mention their reasons and most of the time valid points ( for them ) by underlining the target group. Just wondered what purpose does it serve to make a deal out of you quitting a game a year ago on a continous basis, which is what I wrote.
I have played 40K for 12 years. Next to that, I take it you´re not one of the people who continously advertises that they´ve quit, which I underlined earlier, so nothing I said really affects you.
I believe I articulated it in a perfectly understandable way which type of folk I was referring to.
I have you on ignore but I saw this quote and had to ask.
Why must you be so insulting to people just because they have different opinions than you?
If we´re going with personal questions again, I´ll ask you a few before answering yours:
Why do you state your own opinions and views as universal truths? Why do you usually open up by being rude and condescending? Why do you deliberately misinterpret information and turn discussions into a mess? Why after continously doing all of these things do you find it surprising I act in a negative manner towards you?
How is advertising you´ve quit a game on a regular basis "an opinion?" I haven´t insulted anyone who´s had a different opinion. Opinions haven´t been exchanged to beginwith. I have merely questioned behaviour that just doesn´t make any sense to me and many others, and I believe there are only a few individuals here who belong in said group of people. Occasionally bringing it up is different, like on a thread like this for example, than making a daily parade about it, which is what some people do.
You have now talked about putting me on ignore around 3 times, and also sent me a PM telling me that. Now you announced it once more for reasons unknown. Maybe it´s time to decide, it´s getting a bit confusing. I´d rather you put me on ignore tbh, on a mental level too, as I find we don´t really have anything meaningful to discuss about. You dislike GW, you dislike 40K, and you think GW is pretty much evil. I think none of these things, case closed, let´s go our different ways.
That being said , I'm also disappointed in those who come to this board to tell you how much they hate GW in thread after thread (not referring to this one, because in this one the poster was asking a question related to it) and try to convince everyone why they need to quit with them or just in general spread their hate.
Do you really think people who complain about GW are trying to convince others to quit? I mean, if you put yourself in the shoes of the person who posts something negative about GW - is that why they are posting? They just want to get other people to quit and kill the hobby because they are disaffected for some reason?
The way I look at it, there is (and has been, as long as there has been a 40k) a group of people who care about the game but chose to stop playing for one reason or another. It's hard for me to see why it would be valid to talk about how much you love the game but somehow invalid to talk about why you don't. Does this mean everyone who has a different opinion than you needs to shut up or go away?
It would be hard to call me a GW hater. I don't play 40k right now, but it's not the first time I stopped playing for long stretches and it probably does not mean I won't play again. My perspective on GW stretches back to the late 80s and I am critical of their policies in a number of areas. At the same time, I have mentored dozens of players on all aspects of the game, helped organize local communities that have grown to be hundreds strong, and spent ridiculous amounts of money on models / paints / books / etc. Through my FLGS, I can observe the impact some decisions have on communities of players, which are sometimes good and sometimes bad.
All that said - do I just need to go away because I like to share my thoughts on the latest happenings in Nottingham? If dakka was just a platform for fanboys to profess their love for the latest piece of plastic crack, would it be a better place?
lobbywatson wrote: So all the people in this thread that "dumped" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your ex" this way. I wish GW could file restraining orders against you.
Honestly you could have put this in the "general discussion" area but you instead decided to troll the "40k general discussion" area. Got it....
So all the people that "enjoy" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your GW haters" this way. Dakkadakka could file a restraining order against you.
Honestly yoi could have "not posted in this thread" but instead decided to troll the "thread specifically meant for people to talk about reasons they have left or may leave".
Got it.
Any more insights to share? We'd all be thrilled to hear you whine about a thread you could have, I dunno, maybe ignored. We've to hear you bitch about people bitching, that wouldn't be ironic at all and would be super on topic and productive.
BlackArmour wrote: That being said , I'm also disappointed in those who come to this board to tell you how much they hate GW in thread after thread (not referring to this one, because in this one the poster was asking a question related to it) and try to convince everyone why they need to quit with them or just in general spread their hate.
Why are you complaining about other threads in this thread? Seriously, the OP has a reasonable question and most of the responses have been poignant, and for some reason you felt the need to come in and moan about those bad people who talk bad about GW in other places?
EDIT: again, what is up with all this nastiness from people upset that people are citing their reasons for quitting GW games? Is Tom Kirby your uncle? Were you offered some stock option for defending GW against any and all complaints? I don't get why people can't handle something as simple as a "Why did you [X]?" without feeling the need to start personally insulting other forum members...over a game with plastic models.
I'm curious if the same people who complain about these recurring threads equally complain about the recurring threads about which primarch is the best, or which chapter is the best, or 'hey I'm new, which army should I start'.
Its a forum. Threads happen. No one needs to justify their posting habits or behaviours to anyone else.
EDIT: again, what is up with all this nastiness from people upset that people are citing their reasons for quitting GW games? Is Tom Kirby your uncle? Were you offered some stock option for defending GW against any and all complaints? I don't get why people can't handle something as simple as a "Why did you [X]?" without feeling the need to start personally insulting other forum members...over a game with plastic models.
I´ll emphasise on my behalf, again, that I am only interested in why some folk do it on a regular basis for years. Just answering a thread like this or occasionally letting your opinion known is different afaic.
Blacksails wrote: No one needs to justify their posting habits or behaviours to anyone else.
This is a bit paradoxical coming from you tbh. You´re constantly questioning peoples habits and behaviour yourself. Just saying. I know in the end you´re a good guy.
7th Edition basically did it for me. I didn't like that after only 2 years I had to spend another $85 on rules that hardly changed. I never bothered to pick up the rule book, then slowly became busy doing other things and focused mainly on WFB. Eventually sold my 40k armies and now only have fantasy stuff, and End Times is making me think about stopping that as well. I really didn't like the allies system in 40k and mixing armies in fantasy is just a recipe for disaster. Now I rarely have time to actually go into the shop and get a game in at all.
If you go way back to before 7th ed, you'd see my posts as very pro GW. But when 7th hit and it doubled down on everything I didn't find enjoyable, it was like a floodgate and all of the criticisms I heard about GW made sense.
Is GW evil? No, they're just incompetent.
Is 40k a singularity of suckitude that no fun can escape from? No. It can be a blast in the right group of like-minded people.
Would I go back if GW fixed their mess? Maybe. Plastic Sisters would swing that closer to a 'yes.' But I'm not sure. Like the Star Wars prequels, much of the magic is gone from 40k for me. I'm still curious and I would like to see GW turn around.
Blacksails wrote: I'm curious if the same people who complain about these recurring threads equally complain about the recurring threads about which primarch is the best, or which chapter is the best, or 'hey I'm new, which army should I start'.
Its a forum. Threads happen. No one needs to justify their posting habits or behaviours to anyone else.
Ugh, I hate those type of threads so I just avoid them entirely (though I admit I got a good chuckle out of the one that titled itself knowingly as "another stupid 'who would win?' " )
Trying to delve into my "haters gonna hate" attitude:
1) Too much messing around to get a close game in (that is what I want, a good nail biting scrap not utterly destroy or get destroyed).
The army selection rules are largely to blame (and points cost for "balance" is largely a joke).
2) Found a couple other games that are easy to get into and get the challenge I want. (X-wing, Warmachine, Battletech - Alphastrike, Robotech)
3) It may only be the roll of the dice but the people who play my newly favored games appear more pleasant than my 40k opponents.
4) 40k has not been firing any excitement for me, rules or models have been "meh" the last year... maybe it is just me.
I can work with the rules, I have seen better in the past but it is what I am used to with a new twist (meh!).
5) GW in the past made a "culture" of gaming 40k, all kinds of avenues of interaction an engagement.
Now the expectation is that they produce models, throw some rules/stats out with them and expect us to quietly buy.
The "passive consumerism" does not make the environment they want for a "high-end" product for the customer to be "delighted" and "excited" about.
This is my best stab at my reasoning for turning away from 40k for the first time since Rogue Trader: I always had SOMETHING happening in 40k, not so much now.
Frankly I believe that what we're all seeing right now is a natural progression away from GW being the only game around to it having to compete on a more local scale with smaller, fresher games. Used to be that if you grew tired of playing 40k your options were to play a completely different type of game or just stick it out. Whereas now you have the option to try different games that can be just as much fun or more depending on the person. However, the fact is that GW is still the industry leader for tabletop games and, as such, is going to draw a lot of positive and negative attention from current, former, and potential players.
The reason that people get annoyed with these particular threads, however, is that they feel like people who used to play GW are looking for reasons to justify their departure, which they don't really need to do, especially in a forum dedicated to the enjoyment of the game. In doing so, they both dampen enthusiasm and become slightly insulting to people who do still play, even if that's not the intention. When someone says that they find the rules atrocious, or the company incompetent, or for whatever reason they just couldn't bare to continue playing 40k, they make it sound like those who don't believe there is a problem are somehow fooling themselves. Again, this may not be the intent, but it can be the perception.
The fact is that everyone who left the game has, at some point, decided it simply wasn't worth it to keep playing. Thanks to the wide variety of other games available, it's a lot easier to make that decision. There's nothing wrong with that, people make similar decisions every minute of every day, but ex-40k players do have a tendency to beat the drum rather often and loudly on why they left and why their new game is so much better, so you'll have to forgive people who still are fans of the game from pushing back on threads like this, especially in dedicated 40k forums.
lobbywatson wrote: So all the people in this thread that "dumped" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your ex" this way. I wish GW could file restraining orders against you.
Honestly you could have put this in the "general discussion" area but you instead decided to troll the "40k general discussion" area. Got it....
So all the people that "enjoy" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your GW haters" this way. Dakkadakka could file a restraining order against you.
Honestly yoi could have "not posted in this thread" but instead decided to troll the "thread specifically meant for people to talk about reasons they have left or may leave".
Got it.
Any more insights to share? We'd all be thrilled to hear you whine about a thread you could have, I dunno, maybe ignored. We've to hear you bitch about people bitching, that wouldn't be ironic at all and would be super on topic and productive.
Azrael stalks me... Lol
Yep, must be it, and not that being on the largest wargaming forum in the world talking about the largest (currently) wargame in the world regularly will mean we regularly cross paths.
Or do you think that everyone at the same school as you is stalking you?
lobbywatson wrote: So all the people in this thread that "dumped" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your ex" this way. I wish GW could file restraining orders against you.
Honestly you could have put this in the "general discussion" area but you instead decided to troll the "40k general discussion" area. Got it....
So all the people that "enjoy" 40k I find it rather odd you "stalk your GW haters" this way. Dakkadakka could file a restraining order against you.
Honestly yoi could have "not posted in this thread" but instead decided to troll the "thread specifically meant for people to talk about reasons they have left or may leave".
Got it.
Any more insights to share? We'd all be thrilled to hear you whine about a thread you could have, I dunno, maybe ignored. We've to hear you bitch about people bitching, that wouldn't be ironic at all and would be super on topic and productive.
Azrael stalks me... Lol
Yep, must be it, and not that being on the largest wargaming forum in the world talking about the largest (currently) wargame in the world regularly will mean we regularly cross paths.
Or do you think that everyone at the same school as you is stalking you?
You call for me by name all the time. It's ok buddy I love you too.
Musashi363 wrote: Personally, I want to see Runic answer MWHistorian's questions. He asked you first.
And? In any case I´m shocked, seeing as you two know eachother irl. If you look closely you can also see I partially answered his question already, and if you read the forums you can also perceive I get along fine with 98% of the other users aside from these few individuals I´ve self appointedly trademarked The Four Horsemen.
I must´ve gotten so deep under your skin at some point I must be coming out of the other side of your arm, since you follow me around acting the way you do.
Musashi363 wrote: Personally, I want to see Runic answer MWHistorian's questions. He asked you first.
And? In any case I´m shocked, seeing as you two know eachother irl. If you look closely you can also see I partially answered his question already, and if you read the forums you can also perceive I get along fine with 98% of the other users aside from these few individuals I´ve self appointedly trademarked The Four Horsemen.
Blacksails wrote: So Azrael is Death, I'm War, who's going to be Famine and Conquest?
I´m thinking Grimtuff is Famine. But you´re not a Horseman Blacksails. You don´t fit the quota, which I´m sure you don´t want to fit in anyway. I understand you might be disappointed because hey, who doesn´t like horses.
Okay, lets get away from the whole "Four Horsemen of the GW-pocalypse" thing- it's just meant to dehumanize posters and their arguments, and it does nothing for the conversation. I could think of the reverse-side of these Horsemen, but all that does it flame-bait other posters (unnecessary) and gets further away from the topic at hand.
Blacksails wrote: So Azrael is Death, I'm War, who's going to be Famine and Conquest?
I´m thinking Grimtuff is Famine. But you´re not a Horseman Blacksails. You don´t fit the quota, which I´m sure you don´t want to fit in anyway. I understand you might be disappointed because hey, who doesn´t like horses.
You mean "fit the criteria" Fit the quota doesn't really make sense.
I don't either, BTW, as I still play, but that doesn't seem to be relevant?
Oh @Blacksails, don't forget Explosive Diarrhoea on Binky the Donkey!
Accolade wrote: Okay, lets get away from the whole "Four Horsemen of the GW-pocalypse" thing- it's just meant to dehumanize posters and their arguments, and it does nothing for the conversation. I could think of the reverse-side of these Horsemen, but all that does it flame-bait other posters (unnecessary) and gets further away from the topic at hand.
Admittedly offtopic, but we were just joking around. I think.
Azreal13 wrote: You mean "fit the criteria" Fit the quota doesn't really make sense.
I don't either, BTW, as I still play, but that doesn't seem to be relevant?
Oh @Blacksails, don't forget Explosive Diarrhoea on Binky the Donkey!
I wonder what kind of a person one needs to be to actually continously point out spelling mistakes to someone who isn´t a native English speaker. Humour me anyways, speak some Finnish.
Accolade wrote: Okay, lets get away from the whole "Four Horsemen of the GW-pocalypse" thing- it's just meant to dehumanize posters and their arguments, and it does nothing for the conversation. I could think of the reverse-side of these Horsemen, but all that does it flame-bait other posters (unnecessary) and gets further away from the topic at hand.
Admittedly offtopic, but we were just joking around. I think.
Accolade wrote: Okay, lets get away from the whole "Four Horsemen of the GW-pocalypse" thing- it's just meant to dehumanize posters and their arguments, and it does nothing for the conversation. I could think of the reverse-side of these Horsemen, but all that does it flame-bait other posters (unnecessary) and gets further away from the topic at hand.
Admittedly offtopic, but we were just joking around. I think.
I'd actually argue you tried to do exactly what Accolade suggested, consciously or not, but several posters took ownership of it and made it a joke and now the whole concept is, quite rightly, a source of comedy.
It is interesting to see the number of, shall we say, GW advocates, who felt compelled to enter a thread with a completely unambiguous title in order to tell other users their opinions were wrong and to GTFO of 40K topics if they didn't play though.
Azreal13 wrote: I'd actually argue you tried to do exactly what Accolade suggested, consciously or not, but several posters took ownership of it and made it a joke and now the whole concept is, quite rightly, a source of comedy.
Now he even knows what people think better than they do.
Azreal13 wrote: You mean "fit the criteria" Fit the quota doesn't really make sense.
I don't either, BTW, as I still play, but that doesn't seem to be relevant?
Oh @Blacksails, don't forget Explosive Diarrhoea on Binky the Donkey!
I wonder what kind of a person one needs to be to actually continously point out spelling mistakes to someone who isn´t a native English speaker. Humour me anyways, speak some Finnish.
Theres a world of difference between misspelling a word and using the wrong word entirely, especially when that word, if not exactly a logical choice, could work in the context it was used.
My Finnish is lousy, which is why I don't hang out in Finnish speaking message boards.
Azreal13 wrote: I'd actually argue you tried to do exactly what Accolade suggested, consciously or not, but several posters took ownership of it and made it a joke and now the whole concept is, quite rightly, a source of comedy.
Now he even knows what people think better than they do.
Just an opinion, not an absolute statement, which is why I said "I'd actually argue"
Azreal13 wrote: You mean "fit the criteria" Fit the quota doesn't really make sense.
I don't either, BTW, as I still play, but that doesn't seem to be relevant?
Oh @Blacksails, don't forget Explosive Diarrhoea on Binky the Donkey!
I wonder what kind of a person one needs to be to actually continously point out spelling mistakes to someone who isn´t a native English speaker. Humour me anyways, speak some Finnish.
Theres a world of difference between misspelling a word and using the wrong word entirely, especially when that word, if not exactly a logical choice, could work in the context it was used.
My Finnish is lousy, which is why I don't hang out in Finnish speaking message boards.
Azreal13 wrote: I'd actually argue you tried to do exactly what Accolade suggested, consciously or not, but several posters took ownership of it and made it a joke and now the whole concept is, quite rightly, a source of comedy.
Now he even knows what people think better than they do.
Just an opinion, not an absolute statement, which is why I said "I'd actually argue"
Azreal13 wrote: You mean "fit the criteria" Fit the quota doesn't really make sense.
I don't either, BTW, as I still play, but that doesn't seem to be relevant?
Oh @Blacksails, don't forget Explosive Diarrhoea on Binky the Donkey!
I wonder what kind of a person one needs to be to actually continously point out spelling mistakes to someone who isn´t a native English speaker. Humour me anyways, speak some Finnish.
Theres a world of difference between misspelling a word and using the wrong word entirely, especially when that word, if not exactly a logical choice, could work in the context it was used.
My Finnish is lousy, which is why I don't hang out in Finnish speaking message boards.
Blacksails wrote: Who had the dubious honour of being Explosive Diarrhea?
I gotta admit, I'm a little bummed I apparently am not enough of a hater to be one of the four horsemen.
No no, hating GW or WH40K isn´t a requirement at all. I can appoint you as Azreals horse on which he rides to battle around the fields of DakkaDakka, if you wish to be a part of the Four Horsemen. Maybe you can overthrow him in the future, literally.
SilverDevilfish wrote: Can I be the horseman of "Guys he's pulling you off topic again in yet another predictable attempt to get the thread locked?"
Yeah, its just me messaging myself, nobody else is partaking. Next to that I have no such intention, sorry to disappoint you. The threads point is mostly just the poll anyway, the voters basically tell their stand in the choices already.
I haven't quite quit, but 40k is pretty much by request only for me.
The current edition of the game is godawful. Balance is out the window, any semblance of organization is right behind it, giant robots are everywhere and randumb rules the roost.
GW's pricing and business practices are similarly terrible. $50 for a Codex with less content and a $50 supplement and multiple DLC items to buy it back is unacceptable.
X-Wing and Malifaux are the gamse I play now. They're much easier on the wallet, run by companies that seem to care more about creating a quality product, and are very well balanced games with tons of variety.
I still love the 40k universe, working on my backlog of unassembled models, and playing with my friends. But until things change, I'm not buying 40k stuff or playing much at all.
Dalymiddleboro wrote: If the lich kings horses name was invincible, them how come you could see it?
No. Bad. This isn't Trade Chat, we don't need this level of trolling (and that's exactly what it is, whether joking or not).
Perfect example of things. I jokingly told my brother I was going to get us Shield of Baal: Deathstorm for Christmas and I was going to give him the Tyranids as he used to play them in 2nd edition. His response was "Hell no". I asked why, it would only take like another $200 to get a nice Tyranid army (buying the Hive Mind boxed army they have). Keep in mind he has a small but decent Legion of Everblight army for Hordes (although I bought him some of it), and besides I asked him didn't he like Tyranids.
His answer was that yes, he likes Tyranids but he's not going to play a game where he can play the units he wants and lose because they're bad if he comes against someone who just cheeses out their army and picks the better units, and worse if the units they like/are fluffy are better than his just because reasons.
And I agree with that. Who wants to spend money on things they think are cool, fit their fluff for the army or anything else from a casual/narrative perspective and get curb stomped if you play someone whose fluffy units are better (e.g. Wave Serpents) or who goes all out competitive with their force? Why would he ever do that when he can play Hordes, pay less (although this is mostly due to playing beast-heavy Legion) and in most circumstances pick units he likes and still have a good chance of winning a game if he uses strategy?
He will basically never touch a GW game again because of that, nevermind the fact that I didn't even tell him that he'd have to buy a few codex supplements besides the main Codex (which I wasn't even factoring in).
Blacksails wrote: Who had the dubious honour of being Explosive Diarrhea?
That was Talizvar, who only reckoned himself a minor horseman.
But I got it wrong, his donkey's called Timmy.
Methinks my hypothesis of 40k players or of "former" players is true:
You ARE the reason for quitting the game, first and foremost! Now I will get on my donkey and ride... with slight breaks in-between.
I stopped playing 40k after they completely changed the game concept and scope from a deep and characterful ,(if over complicated ) skirmish game .
With lots of ..'self parody, and over the top silly but awesome fun..' we all seemed to enjoy .
To the bland battle game of 'Grim Dark for kiddies'Which was still over complicated.And in following editions they have just added more and more layers of complication to attract GWs target demographic.(Children and collectors.)
When 40k went to be all about 'selling toy soldiers to children', I was so glad I left GW behind after they dropped the SGs.
My friends and I still play games of 40k, but we use our own rules we converted from other games.
GW seem to be targeting collectors and people who dont think the rules are all that important, but who are wiling to pay an absolute fortune for rules that they have to fix them selves.
No wonder their GW volumes are shrinking at a ever faster rate!
Seventh Edition.
.
I was kinda on my way out already, but it was 7th that gave me the final push. I just didn’t purchase the “upgrade.” Everyone else at the store made the transition. If we were still in 6th edition I would probably still be playing, but focused on the Highlander (or other crazy- limiting) format. I’d play 5th edition today if I could.
The things that were driving me to seriously consider quitting were things that I thought made the game objectively worse: flyers, allies, giant models (riptide, wraithknight, Knight et al) and the further fracturing of rules across so many sources (Tyranid codex in four parts).
I still like the idea of 40K. I like the models, most of the fluff and setting. I’m hanging around to see if GW decides to focus on making the game better as opposed to shredding the game in order to push as much product as possible.
I mean I always knew that the needs of the game were subordinate to the needs to the company to have steady revenue and so we would always have issues with out of date codices and rules that didn’t quite work as intended. But last year when they turned it up to 11 and started cranking out dataslates and slicing the codices up simply to try to prop up a sagging bottom line they made it abundantly clear that they don’t care about the health of the game at all. All that matters is moving product.
I keep hoping that they’ll adopt a Field of Dreams “If you build it, they will come” approach wherein they focus on making the game better and growing the playerbase again. But given all the changes we’ve seen over the last 2 ½ years, I don’t know how they can over go back without alienating even more people.
Hmmm....a relevant sub-topic would be how many people has 7th pushed away?
It should be how many people have left or come back because of 7th. For every post of someone saying that 7th was the final straw, I see one who says that 7th had brought them back and is an improvement over 6th. Personally, I get the impression that most of the people who left at the start of 7th were already on the fence about leaving anyways. It probably didn't help that a lot of the internet started wish listing and talking about how 7th needed to fix every problem 40k has ever had or else it was all over.
Hmmm....a relevant sub-topic would be how many people has 7th pushed away?
Is it worth making the distinction between people who actively dislike the changes in 7th edition and people like me who soured on 6th and simply didn't make the switch when 7th appeared? I think are a lot of people who dropped out in 6th and then came back for 7th.
Blacksails wrote: Well, the next financial report will give us a good idea if 7th was good enough to pull them back out of last year's revenue drop.
IMO it won't be the next one that shows the real situation, since there will be a spike of sales from the 7th edition rulebook. Even people who don't buy much else will buy a new core rulebook so they can keep playing, and I bet a lot of people bought the rules and didn't quit until realizing how bad 7th was. I think the report after the next one is going to be the real test: can GW survive on "normal" sales, or have they lost so many customers that any year that doesn't include a new edition is a failure? Plus there's the WHFB issue, where the "end times" books seem to be popular and might offset some of the weakness in 40k.
True. Weren't the pre orders for 7th on the last year's report? If they were, and factoring in how front loaded their sales are, we could assume that 7th alone may not save them.
I think the biggest seller so far will be BA, being a marine release and all. That and the End Times as you mentioned. There are now rumours 40k could be getting its own End Times, so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw that prior to the end year report. Though didn't we have Knights this time last year?
I'm curious either way. I admit that I'm not hopeful this half year has done anything special for them, but I'll happily be proven wrong.
I think so, 7th released the last weekend that was eligible for that accounting period IIRC, it was discussed pretty widely at the time as a possible sign of how badly GW were casting about to save their year.
There are now rumours 40k could be getting its own End Times, so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw that prior to the end year report. Though didn't we have Knights this time last year?
There are now rumours 40k could be getting its own End Times, so I wouldn't be surprised if we saw that prior to the end year report. Though didn't we have Knights this time last year?
I love playing warhammer 40k, the setting, the armies, if I could be playing right this moment I would be playing a 5th edition game with my friends. Unfortunately that is not so, my friends stopped playing, refuse to play games and have moved on. They briefly moved into WM/H and I followed suit, trading off an army to get models, yet after 2 games in one day, no more games appeared, I like the hobby but my friends are inconsistant, nearly bipolar in their likes. One day it was a card game, i bought into it and researched which deck i liked, I started winning and they dropped it. I cannot be a winner, or I lose.
Friends aside, why dont I play at a flgs, because most of the players I met are annoying, powergaming mommy bought me this deck 20 somethings who loudly express their delight in my losing. No, its not a simple thing to ask me why I stopped playing, because it wasnt one thing.
It was everything the fans did.
Sure its expensive, but I didnt mind buying secondhand.
Sure GW makes weird decisions, but I still like the games.
When my friends quit, I was ok with it, their decision after all.
No, what does it for me, is the playerbase....
Grown ass men bitching about my blue orcs, and my green tau.
Guys bringing extra rulebooks with FAQs and updates for anything I do
The fanbase is poisoned, for every chilled out player we have 4 spam tweakers with massive blocks of cheese. The countless hours spent in combat with absolute idiots that can only play an army after having it professionally painted. The sheer outrage of watching a player be coached during a tournament. No feth the fanbase. Maybe GW will change the rules once people stop buying only the most important, expensive, and good units that other players told them to buy. Balance and strategy are thrown out the window by fans who think strategy is running 6 wave serpents and riptides or 3 fateweavers and 100 pink horrors
So what got me out of 40k...watching the fans ruin it
the balance of the game made me quit and poor rule writing. Also the feeling of being a walking wallet to a company that does not care about its community just is not good business. I rather spend my money on companies that keep open lines of communication with its customers.
Holy balls, I just went through and did the math on what it'd cost to buy the rules for everything.
Assuming you wanted hardcopies of as much as is possible and digitals of everything else, you're looking at ~$1900 (If you go all digital, it's less, I think on the order of $1400) for all the codex books, supplements, core rules, dataslates, stronghold assault and escalation, campaign sets (since they have formations useable in normal games), etc but not counting Apocalypse books, Imperial Armour, or expansions like Planetstrike/Death from the Skies/Kill Teams or White Dwarf sub for when they randomly toss stuff in there. Once you add the Apocalypse/Imperial Armour/Expansion/WD/etc stuff in it's about ~$3000.
To think back to 4th edition or when it was $20/codex and $50/BRB, you could get all the "core" stuff for under $400 (and it'd all fit in a backpack without breaking your spine), maybe a little under $800 with the Imperial Armour books and extra expansions like Cities of Death and Apocalypse and White Dwarf added in on top.
There's just too much stuff priced way too high and spread over way too many sources for the overwhelmingly vast majority of players to keep up with all this stuff anymore.
That's certainly a barrier to both entry and continued play.
Blacksails wrote: Well, the next financial report will give us a good idea if 7th was good enough to pull them back out of last year's revenue drop.
IMO it won't be the next one that shows the real situation, since there will be a spike of sales from the 7th edition rulebook. Even people who don't buy much else will buy a new core rulebook so they can keep playing, and I bet a lot of people bought the rules and didn't quit until realizing how bad 7th was. I think the report after the next one is going to be the real test: can GW survive on "normal" sales, or have they lost so many customers that any year that doesn't include a new edition is a failure? Plus there's the WHFB issue, where the "end times" books seem to be popular and might offset some of the weakness in 40k.
So what you're saying is that GW cannot post positive sales number without it being a "fluke". Got it. However if they post negative sales numbers that's spot on. Is this a correct assumption from your post? If I misread it I apologize.
Vaktathi wrote: Holy balls, I just went through and did the math on what it'd cost to buy the rules for everything.
Assuming you wanted hardcopies of as much as is possible and digitals of everything else, you're looking at ~$1900 (If you go all digital, it's less, I think on the order of $1400) for all the codex books, supplements, core rules, dataslates, stronghold assault and escalation, campaign sets (since they have formations useable in normal games), etc but not counting Apocalypse books, Imperial Armour, or expansions like Planetstrike/Death from the Skies/Kill Teams or White Dwarf sub for when they randomly toss stuff in there. Once you add the Apocalypse/Imperial Armour/Expansion/WD/etc stuff in it's about ~$3000.
To think back to 4th edition or when it was $20/codex and $50/BRB, you could get all the "core" stuff for under $400 (and it'd all fit in a backpack without breaking your spine), maybe a little under $800 with the Imperial Armour books and extra expansions like Cities of Death and Apocalypse and White Dwarf added in on top.
There's just too much stuff priced way too high and spread over way too many sources for the overwhelmingly vast majority of players to keep up with all this stuff anymore.
That's certainly a barrier to both entry and continued play.
Eh to be fair you don't really need everything. Though I do miss being able to just grab a codex I'm interested in for a reasonable price.
That said I can't say I think the codex prices are well set, page for page my University books are cheaper then a codex.
Blacksails wrote: Well, the next financial report will give us a good idea if 7th was good enough to pull them back out of last year's revenue drop.
IMO it won't be the next one that shows the real situation, since there will be a spike of sales from the 7th edition rulebook. Even people who don't buy much else will buy a new core rulebook so they can keep playing, and I bet a lot of people bought the rules and didn't quit until realizing how bad 7th was. I think the report after the next one is going to be the real test: can GW survive on "normal" sales, or have they lost so many customers that any year that doesn't include a new edition is a failure? Plus there's the WHFB issue, where the "end times" books seem to be popular and might offset some of the weakness in 40k.
I dunno... what do you consider "normal" sales for GW? GW do pack the releases in, so I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "normal" year. This year they've had end times and 7th (the rulebook itself was actually released last financial year though). Last financial year they had IK and SM. I'm sure if you go back over the years they usually squeeze something big in, if it's not a new edition for either WHFB or 40k it's a campaign or popular codex/army book.
lobbywatson wrote: So what you're saying is that GW cannot post positive sales number without it being a "fluke". Got it. However if they post negative sales numbers that's spot on. Is this a correct assumption from your post? If I misread it I apologize.
No, you completely misread it. The issue isn't whether the numbers were positive or negative, it's WHY those numbers were positive or negative. Is it a genuine improvement, or is it a one-time spike of people having to get the new rulebook all at once? If it's the second case then that isn't sustainable growth, once it's over you're back to the general trend (which seems to be decline at this point). Similarly, a hypothetical drop in sales might not be very significant if there is a reasonable argument that it was due to temporary circumstances and not long-term decline. But the hypothetical temporary drop isn't relevant to the current discussion.
And the reason for being skeptical about growth is that the trend of GW's sales numbers has been flat to declining for years now. So if we suddenly see a reversal of this trend we should be reluctant to say "GW is back" until GW shows sustained improvement that points to long-term success instead of short-term attempts to fix the financial report and keep the shareholders happy a bit longer.
A year without a new edition, like we've seen before 7th edition. Sure, each year usually had at least one thing that would be popular, but that's not the same thing as getting everyone to buy the new thing. So in previous years we saw that GW could have sustained sales based on the "normal" sequence of army releases combined with people buying stuff outside of the new releases. A new edition was obviously good, but GW didn't depend on it to keep the sales numbers reasonable.
As for the pace of recent releases, yeah, that's the thing that concerns me. GW has got to be making a lot of money off updating so many armies within a single financial year, but they're very quickly burning through their available future releases. If 2015 has 8th edition and a new codex for every army followed by 9th edition in 2016 it will probably kill the game, and GW has to be aware of that. So even if 2014 has decent numbers we still have to ask how the numbers are going to look in 2014 when they can't make as much money off rulebook updates.
Peregrine makes a good point. I think the fact that they released 7th so quickly after 6th shows how desperate they are. I believe this breakneck release pace is an effort to artificially prop the numbers up if you will. Even if their numbers in the next financial report are flat or show a slight increase it's still a bad sign for the future of the company. Considering the pricing, release pace, etc their revenue should show a considerable spike. If it's just a slight boost in revenue, it won't be sustainable without releasing more new editions and codexes at even faster pace, which will alienate even more customers and further threaten the long term stability of the company. At some point GW is going to have to figure out how to generate susustainable growth and keep their customer base happy. They can't keep relying on band aids like a half assed, rushed rule book to prop up their revenue.
I don't really think GW will gain a lot of the 7th edition sales for this financial year. It was actually released last year anyway and I think a lot of people just didn't buy it, waiting for the mini rulebooks to go up on ebay or just pirated the ebook version to see what had changed.
I also tend to think if GW are truly going down the tube (I never like making such predictions, but IF they are) then I don't think they will have another "normal" year of sales. They're just going to keep releasing things, expanding on things, new supplements, expanding the universe and so on until people get bored of it and they go down.
A lot of people say they hope GW goes down so someone else picks up 40k... however I predict that long before GW go down they will have well and truly killed 40k with excessive expansions and cash grabs.
They only need to hang on until kirby retires (i'm predicting 2017-2018ish), then its "someone elses" problem. I'm just hoping they don't totally destroy the prospects of recovery between now and then.
That new epic armageddon game will give them a bump in this year's annual report, but given the nature of the game i doubt it will be a substantial one. But yeah, as the allseeingskink says, it'll be flood the market with releases until something happens, just like TSR did.
I got back into 40k 18 months ago together with some friends, after playing some wmh now and then.
I still like the models, the 40k universe and converting/painting, but the playing is just getting more and more unbalanced and egen in my group of friendly gamers people take it tio seriously, complaining about all new releases, or their own codex which often is worse than any other
And Rhen gw just spams different imperial knights, the newer the codex the more broken the rules, just to get
People to buy the best and expensive stuff.
Even my friends, who claim to play friendly whine about battles löst, bring the worst list possible, writes in our facebook group ~50 times a day, and are really really worried as bout nw releases, base sizes etc.
Its getting too much for me, its just a casual game, and not even that fun anymore. I will continue the painting AMD stuff, maybe play some low point games with a friend but thats it.
Sorry about the language, my tablet has some annoying swedish autospelling
I stop playing because of the cheating abuse rules at all cost waac players that are very commone. like people change digital codexs to fit ther needs when people changs knights to 150a model so the can field more was the last straw. I play just with my brother as he the only one who has same goals in play then other gamers
lobbywatson wrote: So what you're saying is that GW cannot post positive sales number without it being a "fluke". Got it. However if they post negative sales numbers that's spot on. Is this a correct assumption from your post? If I misread it I apologize.
No, you completely misread it. The issue isn't whether the numbers were positive or negative, it's WHY those numbers were positive or negative. Is it a genuine improvement, or is it a one-time spike of people having to get the new rulebook all at once? If it's the second case then that isn't sustainable growth, once it's over you're back to the general trend (which seems to be decline at this point). Similarly, a hypothetical drop in sales might not be very significant if there is a reasonable argument that it was due to temporary circumstances and not long-term decline. But the hypothetical temporary drop isn't relevant to the current discussion.
And the reason for being skeptical about growth is that the trend of GW's sales numbers has been flat to declining for years now. So if we suddenly see a reversal of this trend we should be reluctant to say "GW is back" until GW shows sustained improvement that points to long-term success instead of short-term attempts to fix the financial report and keep the shareholders happy a bit longer.
A year without a new edition, like we've seen before 7th edition. Sure, each year usually had at least one thing that would be popular, but that's not the same thing as getting everyone to buy the new thing. So in previous years we saw that GW could have sustained sales based on the "normal" sequence of army releases combined with people buying stuff outside of the new releases. A new edition was obviously good, but GW didn't depend on it to keep the sales numbers reasonable.
As for the pace of recent releases, yeah, that's the thing that concerns me. GW has got to be making a lot of money off updating so many armies within a single financial year, but they're very quickly burning through their available future releases. If 2015 has 8th edition and a new codex for every army followed by 9th edition in 2016 it will probably kill the game, and GW has to be aware of that. So even if 2014 has decent numbers we still have to ask how the numbers are going to look in 2014 when they can't make as much money off rulebook updates.
That's actually a reasonable well thought out response and clarification. I commend you for not just making up crap.
Actually, we don't know the plans of GW for 2015 and 2016.
One option would be to keep up the pace for releasing eighth edition and beginning to rerelease all codices.
But then they would eventually loose more and more customers.
I hope they find other ways to generate money.
wuestenfux wrote: Actually, we don't know the plans of GW for 2015 and 2016.
One option would be to keep up the pace for releasing eighth edition and beginning to rerelease all codices.
But then they would eventually loose more and more customers.
I hope they find other ways to generate money.
I've got my money on them expanding more rather than just rereleasing stuff.
i quit when one of the three opponents and good friend of mine (Joel) while in University decided he had better things to do with his time than hang out with us. I got tired of playing vs only two guys and while not upset at all with my buddy about not playing warhammer when hes busy, i havnt spoken to Joel in 8 years now, eventually i just got tired of going out of my way to include him in something and him make zero effort to get together with us.
I just came back maybe 8 months ago at our local store, seems like a bunch of good guys there.
I think it comes as no surprise That "we dont like the new editions and rules" has gotten the most votes..
The Fact that prices are comming in on third place shows that this is not the main Issue people have with GW, it has to do with the Rules, and that "we dont like how they treat us", and that also reflects, that the players feel they are getting screwed over somehow (probably by the rules)...
The Number one thing is that RULES make and break games.. And as GW has stated they do not "do market reserch", so they think they are a miniature company first and a gaming company second(if they even think they are a gaming company, I have my doubts about that)..
Mainly social anxiety for me, applying to all the TT games I play, not just 40k. Other things made it easier to stop doing it, but weren't the driving force behind my stopping.
I still enjoy the fluff, but the game itself isn't doing it for me anymore. GW's arrogance has annoyed me, too. They're a shell of what they once were, with most (if not all) of the people who made them great gone.
I'll admit that the models have increased in quality (generally, some of the new stuff is horrid in design/premise, though) but the costs are a turn off too. Not because I can't afford them, but because I don't see value in them anymore.
Like many I've moved on to greener pastures, games run by companies with a clue about what they're doing and, moreover, an actual interest in their own products. Their models may not quite be up to GW's standard yet, but their rules, business sense and customer relations are lightyears ahead.
Funny, I help design systems for doing things in an organization.
I read many comments that some players felt driven out by bad behavior of players.
Some elements of a gaming system should reward behavior we want and punish for behavior we do not.
The system seems to reward playing netlists and "broken" combinations, there is an unevenness in army selection.
The system is flawed and creates flawed behavior more so than just a natural leaning.
I have "stopped" playing in place of other games but am still willing to play 40k, there is just less motivation and opportunity now.
) come off as very angry and bitter about 
End of the day, it's just a game, right? You don't like it.. there are so many other ways to entertain yourself, why blow your time complaining about it?
) has been making me feel like I can't buy from them in good conscience.
