warboss wrote: Did the mega update ever come out? It's been two days and I didn't see anything in the thread and there is no kickstarter page to check for updates.
Good morning all, let me start this update with a bit of Prodos history. It might not seem necessary, but it will probably help explain some of the wider points.
The company was funded by a team of 3 passionate hobbyists believing that we can really change the industry with the latest 3D technology and an utterly unique resin casting process. Two of us were existing, longtime fans, of Mutant Chronicles and have played the previous incarnation of Warzone when we were kids. Looking at the market, we identified a gap and decided to bring Warzone back onto the market via Kickstarter. That went reasonably well, until the point when we needed to fulfil KS. It was at this point that we began to face many unexpected issues. Due to several poor calculations, the largest of which was shipping in waves, we ended up with a near 60k shortfall. The fact that it was our first Kickstarter, we sought little advice and our calculations was totally incorrect. Luckily for us, the Warzone line was received very well on the market, far exceeding our expectations, and we have managed to make enough profit to cover that initial loss.
As you may know, we are not alone in this struggle and many others have a similar story to tell when trying to break into the miniature gaming market. In fact, many companies are running KS after KS just to fulfil their previous KS. This is the case for us as well, we initially went with AvP on KS to get everything straightened up with Warzone and to make sure that we won’t have to come back on KS again, ever. Not that we don't like Kickstarter, but we don't think it's a great way to continue our business.
The plan was to get AvP, and release the game within 6 to 8 months at the most, the team was working very hard on it to make the product that will WOW our customers. As you can probably remember from our earlier updates, we were making fantastic progress, sharing pictures regularly of concept art, WIPs, samples and even completed figures.
But as it is with any plan, something always goes wrong and for us, it's actually lots of things.
Starting with a huge cost increase in manufacturing, approximately 30% from our original quotes, and ending on the pressure of having a readily available product on the market by a set date.
We decided to take a risk and spend our manpower on casting add-ons for AvP to keep as many of our staff in work for as long as possible, hoping that one day soon the game would go public with all of the add-ons and that, with that in mind, we could make it back quickly. However, constant delays caused us to be sitting on almost 650000 GBP of product in our warehouse just for add-ons alone, that’s 3 times more we need for fulfilling the AvP Kickstarter. This video is a proof for that [link here].
So why is there such slow shipping?
There are two problems we need to solve, the first problem is to cover the cost of shipping (which again, increased by a large amount since the project opened) and the second is to increase capacity on packing and sending the KS out.
After the multiple waves shipping fiasco with the Warzone KS, we decided that shipping in waves is not an option at all. Hence all calculations we have done on KS were taken just in consideration of 1 shipping wave, hoping that we would have the entire product line approved in one go. Nowadays, kickstarter creators give an option to backers to pay for multiple waves of shipping or to just wait until the full product is ready to go, we had not considered such option (check out any of Modiphius Kickstarters, you will see this is the case). However due to the cost of warehousing an approved game, with none of the add-ons approved, in our warehouse, we decided to go, yet again wrongly, in waves. As shipping in waves requires extra funds and we needed contractually to have the game on the market, the AvP board game was released and sold publicly. Also as the cost of manufacturing went up by 30% between 2013 and now, the money we had collected for shipping was used to cover that increase. To cut it short, we are funding the shipping costs from any profit we are making, in some cases to the detriment of our team.
The same goes for profit we are generating on our 3D or casting services for other companies. Some of you might know what we have been making product to cover almost 12 other companies KS, and this profit went into fulfilling the shipping costs of wave 1, wave 2 and now wave 3.
Just to make this clear, we, as Prodos, are not asking anyone to pay more than they have paid via KS. We are explaining the situation in order to hopefully allow you to better understand our situation and with that, kindly asking to a bit more patience and during that time we will solve the issue of speeding up with shipping. Of course, we do not expect you to be happy and we do expect you to be annoyed by this.
We have been considering several ways of making it faster and will gladly take on board any other options that you have that we have not considered (service@prodos.co.uk):
1. Go again on KS with a miniatures product, we really have a proven records of delivering of miniatures to the market. Profit generated on that KS would be assigned for shipping of this KS. Pure miniatures, no cardboard or printed material, no IP hence no delay due to approval.
2. I won’t hide the fact that we have been approached by a much bigger company that is interested in buying Prodos as a whole, along with its licenses, as they are mainly interested in our manufacturing know-how, however we really need to make sure that new owner will fulfil what KS backers have paid for. Until we have this guaranteed we won’t be able to make this call. If this can be guaranteed, then the new company has the capacity and funds available to easily complete the shipping of this range of all 3 waves.
3. Release the add-ons as soon as we have approval on them and use the profit to speed up the shipping and getting more staff for packing. This may mean releasing them to the public before backers which we are loathe to do.
4. Final option is to go public to find investors to speed this up.
So how long it will take to get all games out at this rate if we don’t go with any of the options above?
We have shipped so far 1785 board games + approx. 230 were collected at various shows. We are looking at another 2.5 to 3 months of Prodos profit to clear 1st, 2nd wave and 3rd wave of shipping. Add-on miniatures or cost of board game manufacturing is not an issue as add-ons are manufactured and the KS version of the board game paid for.
We are at Crisis, in Antwerp Belgium, with the Kickstarter version of AvP (for backers only) and a collection of add-ons. If you are visiting us please send us an email (service@prodos.co.uk). Please bring you PM paperwork as we are unable to hand out copies without this.
For any of you who have received KS versions of the game, please contact michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk in regards to returning your boxes, we will cover the cost of this.
The pledge manager will be opened tomorrow morning, you can make any changes you wish to your order there. We also request that you please double or triple check your address and details. You can access the pledge manager here: http://calc.prodos.co.uk/ If you do not wish to make any changes, you can close it, or simply leave it open and we will close it when the time comes.
Also, there are roughly 300 backers who have not updated their details sufficiently, please can you check your addresses? We will look at listing these by postcode next week.
We’d like to reiterate that we have approval on some of the range (Royal Guard, Queen, Crusher, Warriors, Power Loader, Weyland-Yutani Commandos, Predalien and Predator Hell Hounds), we have the stock for the approved stock and are looking to get it to you as fast as possible. All we can say is that we’re sorry that you haven’t got the game at this stage but we are looking at trying to get it to you as fast as possible.
By Friday of next week, we will be dispatching another 500 copies of AvP to Kickstarter Backers. We will make sure to update you on this.
2. I won’t hide the fact that we have been approached by a much bigger company that is interested in buying Prodos as a whole, along with its licenses, as they are mainly interested in our manufacturing know-how, however we really need to make sure that new owner will fulfil what KS backers have paid for. Until we have this guaranteed we won’t be able to make this call. If this can be guaranteed, then the new company has the capacity and funds available to easily complete the shipping of this range of all 3 waves.
The bolded part is commendable. Hope things start smoothing out for you folks.
My timeline is shorter.
Start-
In 2013 I gave you £238
Waiting...
Waiting...
Waiting...
...Annoyed
End.
The new videos do look amazing, and would tempt me to spend loads more money... I bloody love Aliens.
Except your Prodos, you've treated me bad and you deserve no more of my money.
Panic wrote: yeah,
What's happened to the clear predators?
My timeline is shorter.
Start-
In 2013 I gave you £238
Waiting...
Waiting...
Waiting...
...Annoyed
End.
The new do videos look amazing, and would tempt me to spend loads more money... I bloody love Aliens.
Except your Prodos, you've treated me bad and you deserve no more of my money.
Thanks for the explanation. Could you explain why the incorrect retail copies were sent to so many backers in the first place and what precautions you've taken to prevent such huge mistakes from happening again?
warboss wrote: Thanks for the explanation. Could you explain why the incorrect retail copies were sent to so many backers in the first place and what precautions you've taken to prevent such huge mistakes from happening again?
the problem was with manufacturer/ our graphic team, however, they haves covered the manufacturing cost and cost of recall.
Since than point, we are signing off every batch that is manufactured.
It seems to be a given that far too many gamers think that because they've rolled dice for many years and are passionate about the content that they will be able to run a good company/store/etc..
These things have no guaranteed correlation.
I was guilty of this myself, so I speak from experience.
Know and be honest about your limitations and have realistic life goals...
The sad thing is that potential failures like this make those who own beloved IP hesitant to let people use it in the future and thusfuture good ideas/proposed projects never get a fair shake because those before have left a bad taste in IP owner's mouths.
I hope they work this all out and the game survives as I'd love to get my hands on all the AVP models, but based upon what I'm reading I should run away as fast as I can and not look back.
warboss wrote: Thanks for the explanation. Could you explain why the incorrect retail copies were sent to so many backers in the first place and what precautions you've taken to prevent such huge mistakes from happening again?
the problem was with manufacturer/ our graphic team, however, they haves covered the manufacturing cost and cost of recall.
Since than point, we are signing off every batch that is manufactured.
Thanks. I have to say I'm surprised that a small team with such a big product going out (one of only two) that you have so much riding on didn't bother checking the flagship product going out.
warboss wrote: Thanks for the explanation. Could you explain why the incorrect retail copies were sent to so many backers in the first place and what precautions you've taken to prevent such huge mistakes from happening again?
the problem was with manufacturer/ our graphic team, however, they haves covered the manufacturing cost and cost of recall.
Since than point, we are signing off every batch that is manufactured.
Thanks. I have to say I'm surprised that a small team with such a big product going out (one of only two) that you have so much riding on didn't bother checking the flagship product going out.
True and nothing to say to defend to be hones. New process is in place solved the issue.
So I had a thought. Why not make an offer to backers that haven't yet recieved anything to wait until all the final wave stuff is ready to ship. You could offer extra add-on minis, that you have already produced, so it won't cost you anything that way, and you would save a ton on shipping. I realize that a lot of people are wanting this product asap, I'm no different, but realistically even if I got it now, today, I probably wouldn't have a lot of time between now and Christmas to play anyways. Just a thought.
So could you just ship mine please? I'm crazy_cat on KS and my PM has been closed and contains my real name and everything - and has been like this for months.
I like the new stuff, bt until I get what you owe me there is no way on this earth I will give you more money. Deliver on your promises and my KS preorder and then amybe I'll consider it.
Grumpae wrote: So I had a thought. Why not make an offer to backers that haven't yet recieved anything to wait until all the final wave stuff is ready to ship. You could offer extra add-on minis, that you have already produced, so it won't cost you anything that way, and you would save a ton on shipping. I realize that a lot of people are wanting this product asap, I'm no different, but realistically even if I got it now, today, I probably wouldn't have a lot of time between now and Christmas to play anyways. Just a thought.
It's something we have considered, however, the problem is that with every approved wave we will get more heat.
Grumpae wrote: So I had a thought. Why not make an offer to backers that haven't yet recieved anything to wait until all the final wave stuff is ready to ship. You could offer extra add-on minis, that you have already produced, so it won't cost you anything that way, and you would save a ton on shipping. I realize that a lot of people are wanting this product asap, I'm no different, but realistically even if I got it now, today, I probably wouldn't have a lot of time between now and Christmas to play anyways. Just a thought.
It's something we have considered, however, the problem is that with every approved wave we will get more heat.
As far as that goes, I don't see how you could ever afford more than four waves of shipping, these costs are literally killing your business. I can understand a two wave, but 3 or 4? There needs to be a distinction between doing your best for your backers, and hurting your future ability to operate and continue with the license. Lets face it, the heat is already on, and its most likely not going to go away for some time. Shipping in dribs and drabs is still leaving people who haven't recieved everything anyways, so it doesn't really do anything to mitigate the heat, all it really does is kill your ability to get out of this hole. I'm not telling you how to do business, I learned that lesson already, just saying you really need to look at your bottom line and make the best decisions for yourselves as you can going forward.
Good morning all, let me start this update with a bit of Prodos history. It might not seem necessary, but it will probably help explain some of the wider points.
The company was founded by a team of 3 passionate hobbyists believing that we can really change the industry with the latest 3D technology and an utterly unique resin casting process. Two of us were existing, longtime fans, of Mutant Chronicles and have played the previous incarnation of Warzone when we were kids. Looking at the market, we identified a gap and decided to bring Warzone back onto the market via Kickstarter. That went reasonably well, until the point when we needed to fulfil KS. It was at this point that we began to face many unexpected issues.
Due to several poor calculations, the largest of which was shipping in waves, we ended up with a near 60k shortfall. The fact that it was our first Kickstarter, we sought little advice and our calculations was totally incorrect. Luckily for us, the Warzone line was received very well on the market, far exceeding our expectations, and we have managed to make enough profit to cover that initial loss.
As you may know, we are not alone in this struggle and many others have a similar story to tell when trying to break into the miniature gaming market. In fact, many companies are running KS after KS just to fulfil their previous KS. This is the case for us as well, we initially went with AvP on KS to get everything straightened up with Warzone and to make sure that we won’t have to come back on KS again, ever. Not that we don't like Kickstarter, but we don't think it's a great way to continue our business.
The plan was to get AvP, and release the game within 6 to 8 months at the most, the team was working very hard on it to make the product that will WOW our customers. As you can probably remember from our earlier updates, we were making fantastic progress, sharing pictures regularly of concept art, WIPs, samples and even completed figures.
But as it is with any plan, something always goes wrong and for us, it's actually lots of things.
Starting with a huge cost increase in manufacturing, approximately 30% from our original quotes, and ending on the pressure of having a readily available product on the market by a set date.
We decided to take a risk and spend our manpower on casting add-ons for AvP to keep as many of our staff in work for as long as possible, hoping that one day soon the game would go public with all of the add-ons and that, with that in mind, we could make it back quickly. However, constant delays caused us to be sitting on almost 650000 GBP of product in our warehouse just for add-ons alone, that’s 3 times more we need for fulfilling the AvP Kickstarter.
So why is there such slow shipping?
There are two problems we need to solve, the first problem is to cover the cost of shipping (which again, increased by a large amount since the project opened) and the second is to increase capacity on packing and sending the KS out.
After the multiple waves shipping fiasco with the Warzone KS, we decided that shipping in waves is not an option at all. Hence all calculations we have done on KS were taken just in consideration of 1 shipping wave, hoping that we would have the entire product line approved in one go. Nowadays, kickstarter creators give an option to backers to pay for multiple waves of shipping or to just wait until the full product is ready to go, we had not considered such option (check out any of Modiphius Kickstarters, you will see this is the case). However due to the cost of warehousing an approved game, with none of the add-ons approved, in our warehouse, we decided to go, yet again wrongly, in waves. As shipping in waves requires extra funds and we needed contractually to have the game on the market, the AvP board game was released and sold publicly. Also as the cost of manufacturing went up by 30% between 2013 and now, the money we had collected for shipping was used to cover that increase. To cut it short, we are funding the shipping costs from any profit we are making, in some cases to the detriment of our team.
The same goes for profit we are generating on our 3D or casting services for other companies. Some of you might know what we have been making product to cover almost 12 other companies KS, and this profit went into fulfilling the shipping costs of wave 1, wave 2 and now wave 3.
Just to make this clear, we, as Prodos, are not asking anyone to pay more than they have paid via KS. We are explaining the situation in order to hopefully allow you to better understand our situation and with that, kindly asking to a bit more patience and during that time we will solve the issue of speeding up with shipping. Of course, we do not expect you to be happy and we do expect you to be annoyed by this.
We have been considering several ways of making it faster and will gladly take on board any other options that you have that we have not considered (service@prodos.co.uk):
1. Go again on KS with a miniatures product, we really have a proven records of delivering of miniatures to the market. Profit generated on that KS would be assigned for shipping of this KS. Pure miniatures, no cardboard or printed material, no IP hence no delay due to approval.
1. I won’t hide the fact that we have been approached by a much bigger company that is interested in buying Prodos as a whole, along with its licenses, as they are mainly interested in our manufacturing know-how, however we really need to make sure that new owner will fulfil what KS backers have paid for. Until we have this guaranteed we won’t be able to make this call. If this can be guaranteed, then the new company has the capacity and funds available to easily complete the shipping of this range of all 3 waves.
2. Release the add-ons as soon as we have approval on them and use the profit to speed up the shipping and getting more staff for packing. This may mean releasing them to the public before backers which we are loathe to do.
3. Final option is to go public to find investors to speed this up.
So how long it will take to get all games out at this rate if we don’t go with any of the options above?
We have shipped so far 1785 board games + approx. 230 were collected at various shows. We are looking at another 2.5 to 3 months of Prodos profit to clear 1st, 2nd wave and 3rd wave of shipping. Add-on miniatures or cost of board game manufacturing is not an issue as add-ons are manufactured and the KS version of the board game paid for.
We are at Crisis, in Antwerp Belgium, with the Kickstarter version of AvP (for backers only) and a collection of add-ons. If you are visiting us please send us an email (service@prodos.co.uk). Please bring you PM paperwork as we are unable to hand out copies without this.
For any of you who have received KS versions of the game, please contact michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk in regards to returning your boxes, we will cover the cost of this.
The pledge manager will be opened tomorrow morning, you can make any changes you wish to your order there. We also request that you please double or triple check your address and details. You can access the pledge manager here: http://calc.prodos.co.uk/
If you do not wish to make any changes, you can close it, or simply leave it open and we will close it when the time comes.
Also, there are roughly 300 backers who have not updated their details sufficiently, please can you check your addresses? We will look at listing these by postcode next week.
We’d like to reiterate that we have approval on some of the range (Royal Guard, Queen, Crusher, Warriors, Power Loader, Weyland-Yutani Commandos, Predalien and Predator Hell Hounds), we have the stock for the approved stock and are looking to get it to you as fast as possible. All we can say is that we’re sorry that you haven’t got the game at this stage but we are looking at trying to get it to you as fast as possible.
By Friday of next week, we will be dispatching another 500 copies of AvP to Kickstarter Backers. We will make sure to update you on this.
The sad part about that comment is.. Mantic have never made a miniature that comes even close to the quality of these AvP minis.
Having inspected the KS minis up-close and in person they really are that good, the miniatures that every Aliens and Predator fan has been dreaming of for 25 years.
Of course, in an ideal world we would have Mantics speed of KS and the Prodos AvP minis
So I reclosed my pledge manager AGAIN yesterday and the response form prodos is YAY OPEN THE PLEDGE KANAGER AGAIN!!! What a bunch of 'expletive removeds'. Why would I want to pay for more add ons for a game I haven't even received yet? Bunch of fetching morons.
Pacific wrote: Mantic have never made a miniature that comes even close to the quality of these AvP minis.
Quoted for truth.
I've got my AVP models on my desk right now, having just finished assembling and basing them.
They are some of the best quality models I've ever worked with, and I've been at this sort of thing for 30 years.
The level of detail is jaw dropping, I can't wait to paint them.
Mantic, well, I'm reminded of the saying "Cheap, good, fast. Pick two."
Pacific wrote: The sad part about that comment is.. Mantic have never made a miniature that comes even close to the quality of these AvP minis.
Having inspected the KS minis up-close and in person they really are that good, the miniatures that every Aliens and Predator fan has been dreaming of for 25 years.
Of course, in an ideal world we would have Mantics speed of KS and the Prodos AvP minis
Well, you know what they say about quality, price and speed... you can have two out of three. Mantic do the last two. Prodos at least do the first?
edit: damn it can't believe I didn't read the post directly above mine first...
I hope that this concentration on Alien Vs Predator IP and the eventualy acquisition by the mystery company , don't bring warzone resurrection (the game) to a dead end.
I would be happy to pay for shipping from the UK (or Poland) to the US to get my game quicker. I think if you give backers the option to pay for shipping individual waves it could help out everyone in the long run. You could emphasize that backers do not have to send money for extra shipping, and they will receive there games, but need to be patient. Those that don't want to wait and have money to spend should be allowed to do so.
To better sell this idea, you could provide vouchers of products for every dollar spent towards shipping. it sounds like you have plenty of miniatures, but are short on capital. So, if backers spend $30 bucks in shipping, you throw in some extra miniatures. Right now, those miniatures are taking up storage space. If it helps you get through this tough time, than you should consider departing with them.
Another idea is to open up the gates on the miniatures. I would be willing to buy an extra set of the board game miniatures so I can start assembling and painting them right away. It sounds like you have vast stocks of miniatures that you are sitting on. Selling them now would generate income to mail out more KS items.
An update on the shipping container heading to the US / North America would be appreciated.
I've just check my pledge calculator and it says "shipment"...
Does that mean the add ons have been shipped to me or it's just due to the shipment of my retail box ? If it's just because of my retail box, I'll try to see with some friends of mine who will go to crisis and pick my add ons for me...
I've read you update... well, thank you for explanations, I wish you will find a solution in which all backers will get their stuff asap...
Dude is still complaining even though it was his lack of putting his real name in his pledge that caused him not to get his stuff. He is from the UK, so he probably would have one of the first to receive his KS box.
I've been trolling this post for months. If Panic weren't so rude, I'd feel bad for him.
primalexile wrote: Essentially... Prodos is gak and is owning up to being gak...
Sell out your licensing and manufacturing knowledge to this mystery company (Mantic, I believe). Let them clean up your mess and move on.
We think it's Mantic looking to eat them then?
That could be a really good partnership; Mantic/Ronnie Renton's skill of business acumen and logistics, married with Prodos and some of the exceptional sculpts they are able to produce.
Actually, if they get it right... well the mind boggles !
If you do stay independent of a takeover and find yourself in another Kickstarter, I hope you look to your communications over the last day or so (apart from throwing toys out of pram with previous colleague) as a way of keeping people onside with simple, honest updates.
It's the months of being fethed around by ridiculous, contradicting information that have impacted this, as much as the delays themselves.
The thought of Prodos being taken over would actually prevent me from adding to any pledge manager. I'd just worry it was product I'd never see as part of some take over deal where the KS/pledge manager wasn't honoured. I'd just like what I've ordered in my paws. Then, I'd think about it.
Not that I can anyway, my pledge manager has actually stayed at awaiting.
Prodos, I'm guessing that for those of us in countries it's expensive to ship to have zero chance of getting their copies?
That there is no point in us adding to our pledges through the manager, as we won't be receiving anything anytime soon?
mrondeau wrote: WClose the -ing pledge manager and stop re-opening it.
In reference to Pledge manager being opened, closed, opened. You will not have to re-close it, they will do it automatically when they move to shipping items. However verifying that your pledge manager has an actual first name, last name instead of a nickname is a thing and verifying the shipping address is complete.
Whilst I still appreciate Prodos posting here. I still find the maths wierd.
"We have shipped so far 1785 board games + approx. 230 were collected at various shows."
There were only ~2100 KS backers. Sure, some may have ordered more than one core box (real aliens...), but then some won't have ordered one at all (looking good there boss) and some may just be in for the updates.
So, it's still not clear the % of ks backers wanting a core box that have one. It still seems low despite how many boxes have been shipped.
Also - I think there are plenty of ways to reduce shipping. Friends could combine pledges or arrange collections from FLGSs that Prodos is sending retail products to anyway. After the delay there must be plenty of people just after one package which includes the core box and released wave 2 minis.
They opened the KS Packages up after on their site, so one would guess quiet a few bought into it then hence the numbers.
Guessing Fox demanded terms like they had to sell X to certain retail options at a set rate/time so offering to last minute after KS backers it would have allowed them to finance the game license easier.
Though have to agree with Grossey would happily pay postage if it gets the stuff quicker.
Prodos First up apologies if you have answered these questions before.
1. If you need profit to afford to ship KS copies and cover the licence renewal, why were you selling the add ons at Essen for less than Kickstarter prices?
2. How many backers (not boxed game copies) have you shipped the boxed game too. How many backers do you have left to ship too.There were 2093 backers during the campaign (some of these might not have gone in for the boxed game others might have ordered more than one copy.) and then there was the option for others to get in afterwards.
3. Where are you with approval on the rest of the items?
2. Do the above items constitute all of Wave 2?
4. Will Any Kickstarter boxes games sent now be sent with the approved minis that are also in people's pledged items?
5. You've said 2.5 -3 months to finish shipping on all 3 waves. So if your not doing the above when will all the boxed games be shipped?
6. Appreciate if you don't want to answer this, but what is the reminding shipping going to cost you?
Dude is still complaining even though it was his lack of putting his real name in his pledge that caused him not to get his stuff. He is from the UK, so he probably would have one of the first to receive his KS box.
I've been trolling this post for months. If Panic weren't so rude, I'd feel bad for him.
No offense Panic. I'm sure you can handle it.
I was a nice relaxed backer for 18+ months...
But
Seeing the game in my FLGs for the last few months.
Hearing about People receiving/reviewing free copies.
All the copies for sale on their web store and eBay sales...
Prodos saying they have read the KS rules and found a loophole that means the can ship as slow as they like.
and all the god damn lies!
I snapped...
And my noise got them to look at my pledge manager and tell me it had an issue.
It's their fault really if they opened my file, saw no name, closed the file and moved on...
It would have taken 2 minutes to send me an email? that's pretty gakky customer care.
I made noise and now it's getting sorted/processed.
If I get what I paid for?
Maybe in time I will forgive Prodos for being so gak and trust them again...
"Hi all, a quick announcement. As we have a large number of backers collecting the AvP + add-ons at Crisis, we decided to compensate your time and effort ( also pain in your arms after walking with 4+ Kg game whole day) with a free random miniature from our WZR or AvP ranges. It could be a trooper or hero, monster model or even a vehicle (retail value from 5 GBP to 65 GBP!) We will have some out of production model and prototypes as well do be drawn (priceless!) . If you have collected your wave 1 at any of the shows we have attended, you will also receive the random miniature with your 2nd Wave! - Let the Hunt Begins!"
I'll let you decide as to the level of PR chaos this will result in.
Why Chaos? It's the first legitimately nice thing they've done in a long time as opposed to try and clean up their previous messes by finally doing the right thing (like paying for return shipping for faulty/incorrect boxes they sent out). It's a nice gesture.
Big Jim wrote: And from Jarek Ever on the AvP Facebook page...
"Hi all, a quick announcement. As we have a large number of backers collecting the AvP + add-ons at Crisis, we decided to compensate your time and effort ( also pain in your arms after walking with 4+ Kg game whole day) with a free random miniature from our WZR or AvP ranges. It could be a trooper or hero, monster model or even a vehicle (retail value from 5 GBP to 65 GBP!) We will have some out of production model and prototypes as well do be drawn (priceless!) . If you have collected your wave 1 at any of the shows we have attended, you will also receive the random miniature with your 2nd Wave! - Let the Hunt Begins!"
I'll let you decide as to the level of PR chaos this will result in.
Hi there, as always with this stuff, we can't make everybody happy. However we had this question constantly coming back to us via emails "what I will get for my shipping cost I paid you if I collect the game at the show".
I believe it's not only us doing it.
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UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Giving free stuff to people that already have received something whilst sweet feth all for those that have received nothing. Great
Hi there, please read my comment above.
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crazy_cat wrote: So waht does 'In progress' mean compared to 'Awaiting' ?
Sounds good on paper although problems come when people who turned up at shows and were unable to collect Wave 1 still have nothing and still get nothing.
Caught me thinking, "Hell, I'll wait till Expo 2016 if I can get a free £65 vehicle..."
But seriously, it's another case of Prodos having stuff to give away but leaving some backers STILL with nothing.
JoeRugby wrote: Prodos First up apologies if you have answered these questions before.
1. If you need profit to afford to ship KS copies and cover the licence renewal, why were you selling the add ons at Essen for less than Kickstarter prices?
We need profit to split shipping into waves, if you could each wave is approx. 10 GBP a parcel, times this 3000 backers * 3 waves that is 90k GBP. License renewal is in 2017 (Rob was confused).
2. How many backers (not boxed game copies) have you shipped the boxed game too. How many backers do you have left to ship too.There were 2093 backers during the campaign (some of these might not have gone in for the boxed game others might have ordered more than one copy.) and then there was the option for others to get in afterwards.
There was in total 2560 copies of AvP game to be produced and shipped. We have covered 1785 out of that,
3. Where are you with approval on the rest of the items?
All miniatures are approved, we are going with packaging. Next month there is another 6 releases.
2. Do the above items constitute all of Wave 2?
Yes and wave 3 as well.
4. Will Any Kickstarter boxes games sent now be sent with the approved minis that are also in people's pledged items?
Yes, with all released.
5. You've said 2.5 -3 months to finish shipping on all 3 waves. So if your not doing the above when will all the boxed games be shipped?
500 received next week, shipped out asap, remaining games with us by the end of the month/beginning with next one.
6. Appreciate if you don't want to answer this, but what is the reminding shipping going to cost you?
Answered above.
Really unimpressed.
Still nothing shipped and now you've reopened my pledge - can you just get on and ship me something maybe!
As I said before there is no way I'll even consider giving you more money until you deliver what you owe me - and even then I think its a rather big if....
crazy_cat wrote: Really unimpressed.
Still nothing shipped and now you've reopened my pledge - can you just get on and ship me something maybe!
As I said before there is no way I'll even consider giving you more money until you deliver what you owe me - and even then I think its a rather big if....
Hi there, the pledge manager was opened due to several request, if you are not interested just leave it as it is. We cannot selectively do it, thus all pledges must be re-opened.
We are back on shipping next week.
crazy_cat wrote: So waht does 'In progress' mean compared to 'Awaiting' ?
In progress means that can be edited. Thanks.
Mine's listed 'in progress', fairly sure there's no way for me to actually change anything (other than address, of course) in there. Not a big issue, I'm not exactly chomping at the bit to throw more money at this, but I'm fairly sure this isn't quite correct. Error on your side or mine?
Just make sure all your details are correct in the pledge manager and leave it be it will be closed automatically when yours is ready to ship .
Prodos my pledge was for figures only not a box game whats the time frame on deliveries for pledges like that ?
And can we get a clear list of whats in wave 2 and 3 because if theres something holding up people's pledges they should know so they know what the delay could be and if so swap it out .
Hey Warzone Resurrection, I've been waiting a month now to hear back about replacements for the 40+ miscast components in my three boxes. The last I heard was that it would be sorted out "ASAP" but here it is a month on and I don't even know if the stuff is in the mail yet.
Not to mention the mislabeled packaging that meant I had to pay over $200 in import taxes and duty to get my boxes, which you offered to help me sort out and then never got back to me.
Not to mention the mislabeled packaging that meant I had to pay over $200 in import taxes and duty to get my boxes, which you offered to help me sort out and then never got back to me.
Ktulhut wrote: Hey Warzone Resurrection, I've been waiting a month now to hear back about replacements for the 40+ miscast components in my three boxes. The last I heard was that it would be sorted out "ASAP" but here it is a month on and I don't even know if the stuff is in the mail yet.
Not to mention the mislabeled packaging that meant I had to pay over $200 in import taxes and duty to get my boxes, which you offered to help me sort out and then never got back to me.
Hi there, sorry if I remember correctly I offered to sent you amended invoice and you have not come back to me on it?
I definitely got back to you both via the FB thread we discussed it in, and via PM (and I think email too, it was a while ago now). It's too late for that customs stuff to be fixed anyway now so I suppose we'll have to call that water under the bridge.
Looking forward to hearing back about my replacements, it's been quite frustrating having the bodies for 21 Infant Warriors and 8 Marines sitting there that I can't build and paint.
Big Jim wrote: And from Jarek Ever on the AvP Facebook page...
"Hi all, a quick announcement. As we have a large number of backers collecting the AvP + add-ons at Crisis, we decided to compensate your time and effort ( also pain in your arms after walking with 4+ Kg game whole day) with a free random miniature from our WZR or AvP ranges. It could be a trooper or hero, monster model or even a vehicle (retail value from 5 GBP to 65 GBP!) We will have some out of production model and prototypes as well do be drawn (priceless!) . If you have collected your wave 1 at any of the shows we have attended, you will also receive the random miniature with your 2nd Wave! - Let the Hunt Begins!"
I'll let you decide as to the level of PR chaos this will result in.
Hi there, as always with this stuff, we can't make everybody happy. However we had this question constantly coming back to us via emails "what I will get for my shipping cost I paid you if I collect the game at the show".
I believe it's not only us doing it.
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UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Giving free stuff to people that already have received something whilst sweet feth all for those that have received nothing. Great
Hi there, please read my comment above.
So how many of those who picked their copies at a convention paid £65 shipping?, and also how many of those who picked their copy up at a convention still have freebies or add ons still to ship requiring postage costs to be found?
So you feel that those of us who currently have received nothing deserve nothing in compensation for the delay?
As those of us who have received nothing yet will be receiving our rewards in less shipments as the waves combine will we be receiving something for the postage costs saved?
JoeRugby wrote: Prodos First up apologies if you have answered these questions before.
1. If you need profit to afford to ship KS copies and cover the licence renewal, why were you selling the add ons at Essen for less than Kickstarter prices?
We need profit to split shipping into waves, if you could each wave is approx. 10 GBP a parcel, times this 3000 backers * 3 waves that is 90k GBP. License renewal is in 2017 (Rob was confused).
2. How many backers (not boxed game copies) have you shipped the boxed game too. How many backers do you have left to ship too.There were 2093 backers during the campaign (some of these might not have gone in for the boxed game others might have ordered more than one copy.) and then there was the option for others to get in afterwards.
There was in total 2560 copies of AvP game to be produced and shipped. We have covered 1785 out of that,
3. Where are you with approval on the rest of the items?
All miniatures are approved, we are going with packaging. Next month there is another 6 releases.
2. Do the above items constitute all of Wave 2?
Yes and wave 3 as well.
4. Will Any Kickstarter boxes games sent now be sent with the approved minis that are also in people's pledged items?
Yes, with all released.
5. You've said 2.5 -3 months to finish shipping on all 3 waves. So if your not doing the above when will all the boxed games be shipped?
500 received next week, shipped out asap, remaining games with us by the end of the month/beginning with next one.
6. Appreciate if you don't want to answer this, but what is the reminding shipping going to cost you?
Answered above.
Thanks for the answers Prodos but I think here's been a slight misunderstanding of some of my questions
1. I understand why you where selling them at Essen. What I was asking was why were you were selling them at Essen at below retail and Kickstarter price? Surely that's your one opertunity to sell with a monopoly without retailers being able to undercut you?
As your not having to renew your licence till 2017 how will this effect your delivery to us backers? I would think if you don't need to put as much £s aside each month for the licence it should improve delivery times?
2a. Not quite what I was asking for (I was asking backer numbers not boxed game copies)but it's an idea at least. Look forward to hearing that 2285 boxed have been shipped at the end of next week.
3. So all minis are approved including the clear preds and the young bloods? Where are you with approval on the packaging for the rest of the line?
Can I also infer that all remaining items will be released to retail when they are approved and ready to go?
2b. I don't understand your response. Some of these;
Royal Guard, Queen, Crusher, Warriors, Power Loader, Weyland-Yutani Commandos, Predalien and Predator Hell Hounds
Are wave 3 items?
As CURNOW asked can you let us know what minis are in Waves 2 and 3.
@Warzone. Ah, so it's an all or none thing with the PM. That makes some kind of sense. Not going to moan about that, as I took advantage of that very thing a while ago to add to my initial order. I've felt a bit silly for doing it at times, considering the stuff after it, but I was happy enough at having the opportunity.
thanks @ Curnow, for letting us know I can just leave it alone and it will close itself when shipping is due. I was thinking I had to go in to change it.
@ Ktulhut. That's a painful amount of duty. Sorry to hear about that. I hope something can get sorted for you as a compromise. Lots of freebies going around for example for shows...>cough< Just a thought if it does turn out to have been faults at the Prodos end of things.
Maybe there aren't as many backers in the US and Canada as I thought there would be.
Prodos- In the September 11th update you mentioned the boat would hit the shores of North America in 2-3 weeks. Add a couple weeks for customs and the shipping container should have been to the distributer by the first week of October.
Ninja Division took possession of their copies in August and it took them 2 months to ship them out. If we are in North America, should we expect to our AvP KS boxes by the end of the year?
Also, since the shipping container was loaded up before Fox approved "wave 2", the packages bound to backers will not have any of the other miniatures being shipped now, correct?
Tried to post on the forum, but my IP has been blocked! HAHA!
Anyway:
Hey everyone!
It may come as a great surprise for many of you to hear that, due to a number of personal reasons, I have handed in my notice at Prodos Games. My last working day will be at Crisis in Antwerp on the 7th of November.
It's been a ride that's been both enjoyable and rocky in equal measure; teaching me to endure through thick and thin. I've dealt with overjoyed, humble and happy customers; as well as some that have been not quite so pleasant! I like to think that I have had a positive impact on all of Prodos Games' customers in one way or another.
I wish all of my colleagues the best of luck in the future.
Thanks!
Rob
P.s. I do realise communication isn't great, so I do answer emails (even if it takes a bit longer) on my email at robDOTalderman@prodosDOTcoDOTuk. Please feel free to email that address for help.
For the purposes of creating a clear separation between Panzerfauste and Prodos it makes sense for this to happen, especially where there might be - for example - a complaint about the existence of the Panzerfauste KS given the ongoing nature of the AvP KS delivery. So now Prodos are simply producing the Panzerfauste minis for a company they don't have anything to do with, just as they do for several other kickstarter projects out there.
Good luck to ya, Rob!
However, if you were the sort of person who was ****ed off by the connection in the first place and you were in some way invested in AvP then.. well, you just shot yourself in the foot. Rob was kind of like the A-Team. If you could find him (i.e. he was temporarily not drowning and had the capacity to even look at his inbox) and nobody else could help.. Rob would always get things moving for you.
Ho-hum. I'm starting to think I should just buy a copy of AvP from my FLGS..
Siygess wrote: For the purposes of creating a clear separation between Panzerfauste and Prodos it makes sense for this to happen, especially where there might be - for example - a complaint about the existence of the Panzerfauste KS given the ongoing nature of the AvP KS delivery. So now Prodos are simply producing the Panzerfauste minis for a company they don't have anything to do with, just as they do for several other kickstarter projects out there.
Good luck to ya, Rob!
However, if you were the sort of person who was ****ed off by the connection in the first place and you were in some way invested in AvP then.. well, you just shot yourself in the foot. Rob was kind of like the A-Team. If you could find him (i.e. he was temporarily not drowning and had the capacity to even look at his inbox) and nobody else could help.. Rob would always get things moving for you.
Ho-hum. I'm starting to think I should just buy a copy of AvP from my FLGS..
Hi there
Well Rob was like one man army, however for money we have paid him we will have 3 people, I think it's a good move for him, as he has a lot of personal issues and working full time it's not an option for him anymore.
Also I think it's good move for us, as it will unable to consolidate Prodos games group (3 companies) into 1 company, saving a lot on taxes we have to pay in 2 different countries.
I did notice that as I was exploring my profile information, I had to re-enter my full name. Perhaps some people haven't realised this? Might be worth checking if you haven't looked.
Also I assume US customers put their State in the "County" field, right?
Siygess wrote: For the purposes of creating a clear separation between Panzerfauste and Prodos it makes sense for this to happen, especially where there might be - for example - a complaint about the existence of the Panzerfauste KS given the ongoing nature of the AvP KS delivery. So now Prodos are simply producing the Panzerfauste minis for a company they don't have anything to do with, just as they do for several other kickstarter projects out there.
Good luck to ya, Rob!
However, if you were the sort of person who was ****ed off by the connection in the first place and you were in some way invested in AvP then.. well, you just shot yourself in the foot. Rob was kind of like the A-Team. If you could find him (i.e. he was temporarily not drowning and had the capacity to even look at his inbox) and nobody else could help.. Rob would always get things moving for you.
Ho-hum. I'm starting to think I should just buy a copy of AvP from my FLGS..
Hi there
Well Rob was like one man army, however for money we have paid him we will have 3 people, I think it's a good move for him, as he has a lot of personal issues and working full time it's not an option for him anymore.
Also I think it's good move for us, as it will unable to consolidate Prodos games group (3 companies) into 1 company, saving a lot on taxes we have to pay in 2 different countries.
Is he ok with you outing him like this? Even if there are no details it still seems inappropriate...
Siygess wrote: For the purposes of creating a clear separation between Panzerfauste and Prodos it makes sense for this to happen, especially where there might be - for example - a complaint about the existence of the Panzerfauste KS given the ongoing nature of the AvP KS delivery. So now Prodos are simply producing the Panzerfauste minis for a company they don't have anything to do with, just as they do for several other kickstarter projects out there.
Good luck to ya, Rob!
However, if you were the sort of person who was ****ed off by the connection in the first place and you were in some way invested in AvP then.. well, you just shot yourself in the foot. Rob was kind of like the A-Team. If you could find him (i.e. he was temporarily not drowning and had the capacity to even look at his inbox) and nobody else could help.. Rob would always get things moving for you.
Ho-hum. I'm starting to think I should just buy a copy of AvP from my FLGS..
Hi there
Well Rob was like one man army, however for money we have paid him we will have 3 people, I think it's a good move for him, as he has a lot of personal issues and working full time it's not an option for him anymore.
Also I think it's good move for us, as it will unable to consolidate Prodos games group (3 companies) into 1 company, saving a lot on taxes we have to pay in 2 different countries.
Is he ok with you outing him like this? Even if there are no details it still seems inappropriate...
He has put up his own details in posts linked in his Panzerfauste thread about caring for his sick parent. If anything, the part about his pay was more surprising to me personally. Ymmv.
For what its worth, I wish Rob the very best in his future endevours. We've all got issues, there is nothing to be ashamed of. Certainly nothing that can't be overcome, you just need to get up one more time than you've been knocked down!
Warzone Resurrection wrote: ..it will unable to consolidate Prodos games group (3 companies) into 1 company, saving a lot on taxes we have to pay in 2 different countries...
Paying less tax is always a good thing. So does that mean Prodos is now entirely based in Poland, with no UK "office" ?
Just to make it clear, we have agreed to make 100+ sculpts on credit for Hysterical. As for production, nothing is agreed yet.
Let me see if I understand all this.
You went in to debt with the Warzone KS. You ran the AVP KS in part to try to dig out of the Warzone debt hole. That didn't work. You now cannot afford to send out what I and others have paid for quite a while ago.
And now you're doing work for another KS (for a soon to be former employee) on credit.
Just to make it clear, we have agreed to make 100+ sculpts on credit for Hysterical. As for production, nothing is agreed yet.
Let me see if I understand all this.
You went in to debt with the Warzone KS. You ran the AVP KS in part to try to dig out of the Warzone debt hole. That didn't work. You now cannot afford to send out what I and others have paid for quite a while ago.
And now you're doing work for another KS (for a soon to be former employee) on credit.
I think they said it DID work to get them out of the hole for Warzone (in addition to better than expected sales). The problem now is that AVP is troubled and there is no KS to come to its rescue.
Just to make it clear, we have agreed to make 100+ sculpts on credit for Hysterical. As for production, nothing is agreed yet.
Let me see if I understand all this.
You went in to debt with the Warzone KS. You ran the AVP KS in part to try to dig out of the Warzone debt hole. That didn't work. You now cannot afford to send out what I and others have paid for quite a while ago.
And now you're doing work for another KS (for a soon to be former employee) on credit.
I think they said it DID work to get them out of the hole for Warzone (in addition to better than expected sales). The problem now is that AVP is troubled and there is no KS to come to its rescue.
It could not have really worked. It may have worked on paper to transfer debt from one project to another, but as a company they are still in the hole.
If your goal is to spite your face then cutting off your nose is a successful strategy. Of course, it doesn't mean it is a good idea or a long term beauty plan.
Just to make it clear, we have agreed to make 100+ sculpts on credit for Hysterical. As for production, nothing is agreed yet.
Let me see if I understand all this.
You went in to debt with the Warzone KS. You ran the AVP KS in part to try to dig out of the Warzone debt hole. That didn't work. You now cannot afford to send out what I and others have paid for quite a while ago.
And now you're doing work for another KS (for a soon to be former employee) on credit.
I would suggest to re-read the update because this is not what we have stated. Maybe this quick, point by point recap will help :
1. WZR KS generated loss due to WAVE shipping not included in calculation.
2. We needed to close loss gap, thus, profit made on AvP was used to cover the waves shipping.
3. AvP would be perfectly OK if we had all item approved in one go, however as we are now decided to make 3 WAVE shipping that will cost us approx. 90k GBP, we need to use our profit to cover this.
4. Why WAVE shipping? because we are getting approval very very slow on bits of product that needs to be, under contract in shops once green-lighted.
5. We could however say to you: we will ship your product to you, all in one shipping, once full range its approved, because you have paid for one shipping... that would mean you would see product in waves in shops before you have even a core set...
6. So, we said, let's take a bullet of 90k GBP, work hard next 4 months to clear this and ship in waves to bakers to make sure we at lest show some sign of "really sorry for this, but this is real business, and we are doing what we can to not piss you of even more"...
Thanks for understanding.
Also, Just wanted to point out that, WZR KS was in 2013, the Warzone line was on general market for more than 1.5 year now and losses, due to split shipping, where closed with retail profit- just to make this clear.
As for Warzone, it was entirely funded by myself, and in 2013 there was no company like Prodos that could provide services on credit.
Copy from other:
Sir, nowadays retail sales/design/3D printing or any other service that makes revenue stream is always supplied on credit.
We only take upfron payment from customers that are starting business with us and we don't know them. Then it goes to at least 30 days credit.
That does not mean that Hyserical has no internal funds, it's just a normal business approach.
It's very common in this industry.
EDIT:
Also to point out, we have been enough long in this industry to know that once you start on KS, just by a mistake of shipping in waves, you have to make another KS to cover the losses, that's not the case for us with AvP, we want to get out of KS and stay away from it, hence the profit use approach ... Otherwise we would have another KS like last year or even a few of them...
EDIT2: Some just told me " Bismarck once said: "Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." maybe I should not talk that much on business and KS...
EDIT:
Also to point out, we have been enough long in this industry to know that once you start on KS, just by a mistake of shipping in waves, you have to make another KS to cover the losses,
Seriously?
Did KS and Fox both understand that your AvP KS was in part to pay for your WarZone KS shipping?
You sure as hell did not mention that fact to the AvP backers. I can't help but wonder how prone KS would have been to let you start a new project in part to pay for shipping a previous project. And I wonder how happy Fox would have been knowing you were using AvP funds to pay to ship a previous project.
EDIT:
Also to point out, we have been enough long in this industry to know that once you start on KS, just by a mistake of shipping in waves, you have to make another KS to cover the losses,
Seriously?
Did KS and Fox both understand that your AvP KS was in part to pay for your WarZone KS shipping?
You sure as hell did not mention that fact to the AvP backers. I can't help but wonder how prone KS would have been to let you start a new project in part to pay for shipping a previous project. And I wonder how happy Fox would have been knowing you were using AvP funds to pay to ship a previous project.
We could take a bank loan or maybe fund it with my own money.... what difference does it makes? The point is it balanced out with retail sales. End of the story.
HAve you seen any KS stating that the profit ill be used to cover previous KS? No, guess what, in most of the cases they are... ask your self, why a company start 2nd 3rd of 4th KS without clearing obligations from previous KS?
CptJake - You're missing the keyword "profit." They made up a business plan and figured out their profit on running a successful Kickstarter if everything goes according to plan. Prodos planed on using their own profit to pay for shipping of a previous Kickstarter venture.
Now, the fact the AvP business plan went south is more of a problem with working with an IP owned by 20th Century Fox, then trying to cover a KS loss by starting up another.
I give credit to Prodos to continue to stick to try to make backers happy. It is a hopeless battle. For their sake, I hope they receive grace from backers once everyone has received their "wave 1" game box.
I get that everyone is ANGRY, and I'm disappointed that I don't have anything either.
Thank you Prodos for answering our questions and clarifying the issue source!
No, to make it happen we needed 40 models designed 3d printing painting service and all of that - AND PAID FOR THIS upfront from KS you get funds after 60 days...
Well, kudos for engaging backers somewhere outside your own moderated venues, if nothing else.
...we are getting approval very very slow on bits of product that needs to be, under contract in shops once green-lighted.
Could you be more specific? Is this really just packaging as you seemed to suggest some time back, or is there more there that's not ready/approved yet?
No, to make it happen we needed 40 models designed 3d printing painting service and all of that - AND PAID FOR THIS upfront from KS you get funds after 60 days...
No, to make it happen we needed 40 models designed 3d printing painting service and all of that - AND PAID FOR THIS upfront from KS you get funds after 60 days...
14 Days.
KS was 60 days add 14 days to this... + add, pre-KS development of 2 months that was also paid in upfront.
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Bolognesus wrote: Well, kudos for engaging backers somewhere outside your own moderated venues, if nothing else.
...we are getting approval very very slow on bits of product that needs to be, under contract in shops once green-lighted.
Could you be more specific? Is this really just packaging as you seemed to suggest some time back, or is there more there that's not ready/approved yet?
Hi there, all info on approval will be in next update,
JoeRugby wrote: Prodos First up apologies if you have answered these questions before.
1. If you need profit to afford to ship KS copies and cover the licence renewal, why were you selling the add ons at Essen for less than Kickstarter prices?
We need profit to split shipping into waves, if you could each wave is approx. 10 GBP a parcel, times this 3000 backers * 3 waves that is 90k GBP. License renewal is in 2017 (Rob was confused).
2. How many backers (not boxed game copies) have you shipped the boxed game too. How many backers do you have left to ship too.There were 2093 backers during the campaign (some of these might not have gone in for the boxed game others might have ordered more than one copy.) and then there was the option for others to get in afterwards.
There was in total 2560 copies of AvP game to be produced and shipped. We have covered 1785 out of that,
3. Where are you with approval on the rest of the items?
All miniatures are approved, we are going with packaging. Next month there is another 6 releases.
2. Do the above items constitute all of Wave 2?
Yes and wave 3 as well.
4. Will Any Kickstarter boxes games sent now be sent with the approved minis that are also in people's pledged items?
Yes, with all released.
5. You've said 2.5 -3 months to finish shipping on all 3 waves. So if your not doing the above when will all the boxed games be shipped?
500 received next week, shipped out asap, remaining games with us by the end of the month/beginning with next one.
6. Appreciate if you don't want to answer this, but what is the reminding shipping going to cost you?
Answered above.
Thanks for the answers Prodos but I think here's been a slight misunderstanding of some of my questions
1. I understand why you where selling them at Essen. What I was asking was why were you were selling them at Essen at below retail and Kickstarter price? Surely that's your one opertunity to sell with a monopoly without retailers being able to undercut you?
As your not having to renew your licence till 2017 how will this effect your delivery to us backers? I would think if you don't need to put as much £s aside each month for the licence it should improve delivery times?
2a. Not quite what I was asking for (I was asking backer numbers not boxed game copies)but it's an idea at least. Look forward to hearing that 2285 boxed have been shipped at the end of next week.
3. So all minis are approved including the clear preds and the young bloods? Where are you with approval on the packaging for the rest of the line?
Can I also infer that all remaining items will be released to retail when they are approved and ready to go?
2b. I don't understand your response. Some of these;
Royal Guard, Queen, Crusher, Warriors, Power Loader, Weyland-Yutani Commandos, Predalien and Predator Hell Hounds
Are wave 3 items?
As CURNOW asked can you let us know what minis are in Waves 2 and 3.
EDIT:
Also to point out, we have been enough long in this industry to know that once you start on KS, just by a mistake of shipping in waves, you have to make another KS to cover the losses,
Seriously?
Did KS and Fox both understand that your AvP KS was in part to pay for your WarZone KS shipping?
You sure as hell did not mention that fact to the AvP backers. I can't help but wonder how prone KS would have been to let you start a new project in part to pay for shipping a previous project. And I wonder how happy Fox would have been knowing you were using AvP funds to pay to ship a previous project.
To be fair, from what I have heard about a lot of what goes on in the industry, this is a pretty stable platform by comparison..
grossey wrote: CptJake - You're missing the keyword "profit." They made up a business plan and figured out their profit on running a successful Kickstarter if everything goes according to plan. Prodos planed on using their own profit to pay for shipping of a previous Kickstarter venture.
Except, there was NO profit. They didn't even take in enough to cover the AvP project. That is why they sold KS pledges afterwards via their web store to try to cover enough for an initial print run. You can't declare 'profit' on a project then claim 'We can't afford to ship your stuff because costs changed'. And clearly, since they had a similar problem with Warzone, they should have had an inkling of an idea their 'plan' wasn't gonn survive contact.
I finally got my hands on a retail copy just a couple days ago. Overall I'm pretty impressed with it. The tiles are sturdy and the artwork is great; the rule book is big and in full color; the stat/strat/etc cards seem pretty tough, though I wouldn't want to spill anything on them.
As for the minis themselves, I was quite surprised. The predators were chock full of detail and none of it seemed to be lost in the casting process - even the smart disc, which I auto-assumed would have issues even before I opened the box, was nigh perfect. The stalkers were flawless and a breeze to assemble. The infants did have a couple miscasts, once with the hole where the tail inserts, and a lump on a separate tail - both easy fixes though. I've yet to assemble the marines, but I suspect the flamethrower arm might be miscast. The rest appeared good, but I'll know for sure soon enough.
EDIT:
Also to point out, we have been enough long in this industry to know that once you start on KS, just by a mistake of shipping in waves, you have to make another KS to cover the losses,
Seriously?
Did KS and Fox both understand that your AvP KS was in part to pay for your WarZone KS shipping?
You sure as hell did not mention that fact to the AvP backers. I can't help but wonder how prone KS would have been to let you start a new project in part to pay for shipping a previous project. And I wonder how happy Fox would have been knowing you were using AvP funds to pay to ship a previous project.
To be fair, from what I have heard about a lot of what goes on in the industry, this is a pretty stable platform by comparison..
I am pretty sure it is against KS terms to run a campaign to get funds to pay off debts.
n815e wrote: I am pretty sure it is against KS terms to run a campaign to get funds to pay off debts.
Playing a little devils advocate... It isn't per say, it all depends on how you define debts and plan to properly fulfill a KS, as paying a previous debt so that one could fulfill a KS would still meet the criteria. There is nothing that says all funds should or have to be used for Project B and only Project B, they don't enforce, check or audit the fund use. As long progression is made on creating the funded project then they are living up to their agreement. People don't have to agree with the use of the funds or like it, that is part of the users, communication, etc side of things. That is also what determines if they decide to do another KS if backers continue backing.
Most businesses operate in this manner in one method or another. Either they obtain credit or pay out of their pocket the initial prototyping, licensing, etc to start a project. The funding goes to help create a project, make it a reality which could include paying off debt to Project A, so money and profit can be focused to Project B. In some cases creators are paying off debts for what they obtained credit to start a project with as well.
CMoN and Mantic for example all the funds from a KS do not go to just that KS, it is used for other projects and even previous KS. However they have a history to delivering and providing, better communication so people will continue to back them. Some don't because they weren't happy and they won't always agree.
Now if a person only spent the KS funds on paying off debts, but didn't progress or start to fulfill a project then that is where there is an issue and against KS Terms of Use, as well as other issues of possible fraud. In the direction of Prodos, it isn't so much that they have mismanaged funds, that is a given, but also not completely within their control to a degree. They are still actively moving forward attempting to fulfill as seen by people getting pledges. If they were the wrong or right pledges, that is a different story. We don't have to agree or like how they've used it but that comes from not backing them on future projects or other means.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Joyboozer wrote: I honestly dont think kickstarter gives a gak about anything as long as they get they're cut.
Yep pretty much that. They are an agent that introduces Person to Project Creator. Once it is funded they don't care. It could effect future projects but anything beyond that is up to the individuals to determine if it was done properly, not done, delivered, not delivered and what action they will take in the future.
EDIT:
Also to point out, we have been enough long in this industry to know that once you start on KS, just by a mistake of shipping in waves, you have to make another KS to cover the losses,
Seriously?
Did KS and Fox both understand that your AvP KS was in part to pay for your WarZone KS shipping?
You sure as hell did not mention that fact to the AvP backers. I can't help but wonder how prone KS would have been to let you start a new project in part to pay for shipping a previous project. And I wonder how happy Fox would have been knowing you were using AvP funds to pay to ship a previous project.
To be fair, from what I have heard about a lot of what goes on in the industry, this is a pretty stable platform by comparison..
I am pretty sure it is against KS terms to run a campaign to get funds to pay off debts.
Using money from one part of a business to fund another is a normal and healthy business practice. If you don't have liquidity and proper cash flow you end up tying up all your funds and choke your business.
Whether or not KS has it in their TOS may not matter if higher business laws protects what businesses do with their cash flow. If they really want to protect backers they should require escrows and see how far that goes.
I know people are mad about not getting their stuff yet, but I tire of reading KS entitlement posts. Paying money for a product only entitles you to that product and not a say in how a company runs its business. KS actually prohibits real company investment contracts.
carboncopy wrote: I tire of reading KS entitlement posts. Paying money for a product only entitles you to that product and not a say in how a company runs its business. KS actually prohibits real company investment contracts.
And I tire of folks making excuses. Prodos have lied to us. Multiple times. I don't give a gak how they run their business except in that they have failed to provide what I and others have paid for, and been dishonest more than once.
I was entitled to what I paid for, namely a KS exclusive version of the game they were to send out before the retail version hit stores. My version is no longer KS exclusive and was not sent out before the retail version. They then also said we would get the add ons first. And now they've gone back on that. Feeling 'entitled' to what I paid for and what I was told should not be a bad thing. Lying to customers should be a bad thing.
The company has admitted to not having funds to fufill its obligations, having used the funds people gave them for this product to fund another product and has floated the idea of running yet another ks to fund this one.
To be upset over that is not entitlement.
It is not entitlement to want what you paid for.
It is, however, a Defiance style ponzi scheme to take orders/investments for a product and then pay for that with orders for future products, over and over. At what point do you stop calling the customers entitled and start looking at what the company is doing?
Yes, when will people finally learn, no matter what a company promises during a campaign, as a backer you are entitled to nothing. Nothing!
The second nothing should be read in a screeching voice, as the people saying so have trouble being heard, sitting atop their high horse.
Can you tell me WHEN the french translated cards would be online please ? You always say "very soon" "next time" etc etc etc... But nothing happen.
I think it wold not very difficult to publish it no ?
On the other hand, I ask some friends backers of mine : you say that you could not print french cards/rulebook because orders hadn't hit yet the minimum... But you didn't let them choose the french version in their pledge manager... Even you announced several times that "it would be possible next week"...
Joyboozer wrote: Yes, when will people finally learn, no matter what a company promises during a campaign, as a backer you are entitled to nothing. Nothing!
The second nothing should be read in a screeching voice, as the people saying so have trouble being heard, sitting atop their high horse.
Not quite - and not even Kickstarter believes that - they just believe that Kickstarter isn't a part of any...liability concerns.
Kickstarter provides a funding platform for creative projects. When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.
Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers. Here are the terms that govern that agreement:
When a project is successfully funded, the creator must complete the project and fulfill each reward. Once a creator has done so, they’ve satisfied their obligation to their backers.
Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life. At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they’ve failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers. A creator in this position has only remedied the situation and met their obligations to backers if:
they post an update that explains what work has been done, how funds were used, and what prevents them from finishing the project as planned;
they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that’s communicated to backers;
they’re able to demonstrate that they’ve used funds appropriately and made every reasonable effort to complete the project as promised;
they’ve been honest, and have made no material misrepresentations in their communication to backers; and
they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
The creator is solely responsible for fulfilling the promises made in their project. If they’re unable to satisfy the terms of this agreement, they may be subject to legal action by backers.
Of course, trying to enforce your rights is another thing altogether...
In all fairness to Prodos, they have appeared to be trying like buggery to get it sorted. Even if the manner in which it was done was detrimental to their reputation...
The way I see it is that the past is the past. We can't change that, nor can Prodos. The fact that they have been stepping up, here, in the cesspool, and answering questions, etc., is a good thing. I like to encourage positive behaviour. It won't wipe out the transgressions of the past, but it certainly could make the future better. I have moved from very pessemistic, to a more wait and see approach. Here's hoping this is the beginning of a new chapter for Prodos. We'll see.
Joyboozer wrote: Yes, when will people finally learn, no matter what a company promises during a campaign, as a backer you are entitled to nothing. Nothing!
The second nothing should be read in a screeching voice, as the people saying so have trouble being heard, sitting atop their high horse.
It's not that they have trouble being heard from their high horse, it's that they have trouble being heard from this little place some of us call 'reality'.
I expect that problem exists because, from what I've gathered, that place is very, very far from a lot of wargaming kickstarters.
angelofvengeance wrote: In all fairness to Prodos, they have appeared to be trying like buggery to get it sorted. Even if the manner in which it was done was detrimental to their reputation...
And I applaud this change in direction. The key, however, will be to maintain that new course for more than just a week or two. Making promises is easy but keeping them is harder. I sincerely hope they can do both for the long haul.
carboncopy wrote: I tire of reading KS entitlement posts. Paying money for a product only entitles you to that product and not a say in how a company runs its business. KS actually prohibits real company investment contracts.
And I tire of folks making excuses. Prodos have lied to us. Multiple times. I don't give a gak how they run their business except in that they have failed to provide what I and others have paid for, and been dishonest more than once.
I was entitled to what I paid for, namely a KS exclusive version of the game they were to send out before the retail version hit stores. My version is no longer KS exclusive and was not sent out before the retail version. They then also said we would get the add ons first. And now they've gone back on that. Feeling 'entitled' to what I paid for and what I was told should not be a bad thing. Lying to customers should be a bad thing.
n815e wrote:The company has admitted to not having funds to fufill its obligations, having used the funds people gave them for this product to fund another product and has floated the idea of running yet another ks to fund this one.
To be upset over that is not entitlement.
It is not entitlement to want what you paid for.
It is, however, a Defiance style ponzi scheme to take orders/investments for a product and then pay for that with orders for future products, over and over. At what point do you stop calling the customers entitled and start looking at what the company is doing?
CptJake wrote:
carboncopy wrote: I tire of reading KS entitlement posts. Paying money for a product only entitles you to that product and not a say in how a company runs its business. KS actually prohibits real company investment contracts.
And I tire of folks making excuses. Prodos have lied to us. Multiple times. I don't give a gak how they run their business except in that they have failed to provide what I and others have paid for, and been dishonest more than once.
I was entitled to what I paid for, namely a KS exclusive version of the game they were to send out before the retail version hit stores. My version is no longer KS exclusive and was not sent out before the retail version. They then also said we would get the add ons first. And now they've gone back on that. Feeling 'entitled' to what I paid for and what I was told should not be a bad thing. Lying to customers should be a bad thing.
If you read my post you responded to, I said yes we are entitled to what we paid for, but you don't have to go back far to see the KS entitlement and constant complaining. Its not a recent thing either - this whole thread is polluted with it. I wish I could go back in time and buy some of your pledges to save me the time spent slogging through this thread.
I would like my pledge as much as anyone but understand the situation. I don't like it, but understand it. I also don't feel lied to. Having a plan at the beginning and having to change that mid-through is normal for such a large project. I'm sure if they stuck to plan A no one would be getting their stuff. As a business you can't hold up cash flow or stock or your business will choke. It's not a Ponzi scheme, it's a normal business practice. They definitely could have done better, but there's no way they could have forseen everything.
As a backer, no I don't like it and it may prevent me from buying from them again. They may not have been able to control events in the past, but they can control how to "make good" with backers in the future. That ball is in their court.
Yesterday, I've send to Michal and Jarek an MP about the fact that a friend of mine would pick my pledge (wave 2 and others) at Crisis in early November. I would like you to tell me "how to process" please...
And I really would like to answer me about the french cards I told you few posts before...
carboncopy wrote: I wish I could go back in time and buy some of your pledges to save me the time spent slogging through this thread.
I would like my pledge as much as anyone but understand the situation. I don't like it, but understand it. I also don't feel lied to. Having a plan at the beginning and having to change that mid-through is normal for such a large project. I'm sure if they stuck to plan A no one would be getting their stuff. As a business you can't hold up cash flow or stock or your business will choke. It's not a Ponzi scheme, it's a normal business practice. They definitely could have done better, but there's no way they could have forseen everything.
As a backer, no I don't like it and it may prevent me from buying from them again. They may not have been able to control events in the past, but they can control how to "make good" with backers in the future. That ball is in their court.
You don't have to buy anyone's pledge to prevent yourself from 'slogging through this thread'. A tiny bit of self discipline can work for you there. You're lack of it is on you.
As for not feeling lied to, great. When I get lied to I do feel lied to. And Prodos lying isn't in question, they did. Just look at the whole taking down the KS page and what they said. That wasn't 'change of plans', it was being dishonest with their customers. And that is one example. More recent examples about shipping are very easy to see as well. And when they did change the plan, they were NOT honest about it up front, again, they chose deception.
It's amazing how FUBAR this kickstarter was. With a franchise like this, it should have been an amazing and resounding success.
I lucked out by buying 2 sets for $150. In one set I got an extra set of Preds & 2 more reg marines. In another set I got 9 extra aliens without tails though. I sold most stuff on ebay-
3 preds = $30
3 preds = $30
3 preds = $30
1 smart gunner = $20
1 tracker = $20
1 flamer = $20
7 marines = $100
9 aliens without tails = $20
1 boxed game without minis = $50
All other aliens = $135
That's the profit, $455, after ebay/paypal fees and postage!
Still pending on ebay -
20 tiles set $20
20 tiles set $20
20 tiles set $20
20 tiles set $20
20 tiles set $20
20 tiles set $20
Rulebook/templates/dice/markers $28
Just got an email about alien queen, predalien, powerloader, hounds... They are available for preorder. I HOPE that they will ship them to backers too!
Yeah, if nothing else that firm shipping date for the fethers who pay TWO YEARS after we did and will still likely get their stuff first is more than a little offensive.
In all honesty, I'd probably preorder some hell hounds (if it got me the game any sooner) I'm not sure two will be enough.
I'd like to get some more pieces before licence renewal time comes when I think AVP will do a "Starship Troopers". No money for shipping may equal no money for license.
I'd like to get some more pieces before licence renewal time comes when I think AVP will do a "Starship Troopers". No money for shipping may equal no money for license.
Quite true and plausible, tho. Get enough for two viable forces, then you can keep on hosting games and scenarios down the line, while some folk stand off to one side to harrumph and splutter about 'dead games'.
I've been told completed UK orders should be coming out within the next few weeks (my order was also checked at the same time I believe to make sure of no hold-ups).
ah yes - well let me copy the entire post that the above is taken from .....
Jarek Ever Thanks lads, we are on a buiness trip to UK so Friday update may be postpone to Saturday , however the good news is that we have came to conclusion that the only one way to speed things up is to have everything in one place. Prodos is actually 4 companies scattered around the globe and by consolidation in one place we will fix many many issues with communication and organization. It will mean that we will have to loose some good people's and replace them with new comers at New HQ. As for selling the company, New won't-be a owner was not interested in fulfilment of the KS thus it's no go at this stage, we will we what tomorrow's brings as we may just agree to provide services for them, this way our small company will get really serious work. This will mean for you that the shipping will be moving much much faster.
no, he didn't say (and I doubt we could expect him to). The obvious guesses would be CMoN or Mantic, but given the above it's fairly moot speculation now anyway.
Jarek wrote:As for selling the company, New won't-be a owner was not interested in fulfilment of the KS thus it's no go at this stage, we will we what tomorrow's brings as we may just agree to provide services for them, this way our small company will get really serious work. This will mean for you that the shipping will be moving much much faster.
That actually says a lot. The KS fulfillment must be enough of a gak show that it prevents making the purchase of Prodos with that fulfillment obligation included a NO. If it was not too big a deal the value of Prodos would have made it worth assuming the obligation.
well if what Jarek has said is to be believed, whoever it was wanted Prodos' technical skills and knowledge but didn't want the headache that is us lot, so massive kudos to Jarek for not selling us out, but sticking to the difficult task of getting this project finished. I wish him all the luck, and having been massively critical of him and his staff so far, in light of that and in light of the improvement in communication he's made recently, I'm prepared to give him the chance to get it done. It will probably continue to be a rocky ride, but if he keeps up the comms no matter whether things go to his revised plans or not, then I see no insurmountable reason why Prodos can't work through this mess and come out all the stronger for it.
Communication is key here, long may it continue. Delays happen, but as I've said a gazillion times during the KS, an informed backer is a happy backer (at least happier than an uniformed / misinformed backer). In the past he's taken the deception route, now he must walk the honesty path warts and all, and accept that it won't be pretty, but will allow him to find a way forward.
CptJake wrote: I won't read any altruism into any action by Jarek/Prodos. I suspect the contract with Fox makes it impossible to sell off without having fulfilled.
With ^^.
It's an awfully convenient story with, equally conveniently, no possible way for anyone to double-check. Besides that, bad guys everywhere and Prodos comes off minty fresh - I'd say Palladium's communications department is giving workshops here in Europe now
yeah,
For what it's worth my KS ban is over... But I feel I made my point there.
Plus those who are still there backing Rob don't need more agro, IMO that will come in time.
I think the recent spruge of comms from Jarek were great but went off the rails a little so he's reeling it back in!
But I do hope he's not turtled up completely for another year!?
warboss wrote: Did they say why you were banned? Did you swear, flagrantly insult, or something else on Panzerfauste?
KickStarter email wrote:While I understand there are a lot of emotions involved with the fulfillment of this project, it's important to remember our Community Guidelines, which stipulate that messages and comments should be polite and judicious at all times. In addition, it says, "Don’t post personal information."
As for the current limitations on your account, your commenting and messaging restrictions are set to expire on Oct 22nd.
Revealing personal information.
- I linked to Rob's Linkedin page where he said he's a director at Prodos.
- I posted a screenshot of the same info.
krazynadechukr wrote: It's amazing how FUBAR this was. With a franchise like this, it should have been an amazing and resounding success.
*Funding* is the success, managing something else entirely.
After following various KS projects, I'm avoiding those with multiple not-so-interested parties (eg. outside investors, "board of directors", corporate movie suits) involved.
krazynadechukr wrote: It's amazing how FUBAR this was. With a franchise like this, it should have been an amazing and resounding success.
*Funding* is the success, managing something else entirely.
After following various KS projects, I'm avoiding those with multiple not-so-interested parties (eg. outside investors, "board of directors", corporate movie suits) involved.
Given that Fox weren't even mentioned on the original kickstarter and that there was not even a hint of issues between Prodos and Fox until long after they'd been funded, you'd have been hard pushed to identify a problem in this case.
krazynadechukr wrote: It's amazing how FUBAR this was. With a franchise like this, it should have been an amazing and resounding success.
*Funding* is the success, managing something else entirely.
After following various KS projects, I'm avoiding those with multiple not-so-interested parties (eg. outside investors, "board of directors", corporate movie suits) involved.
Given that Fox weren't even mentioned on the original kickstarter and that there was not even a hint of issues between Prodos and Fox until long after they'd been funded, you'd have been hard pushed to identify a problem in this case.
Do we have any proof of those problems with fox? I mean, I never found another source saying that except for Prodos themself. And they lied so many times (especially if it came to excuses for delays and broken promises), that I take everything they say with a lot of salt until I have enough evidence to believe it. Has Fox ever said something that would confirm Prodos Statements that everything is basically Fox fault? Otherwise it sounds pretty convenient for an excuse...
shadowtyrant wrote: Do we have any proof of those problems with fox? I mean, I never found another source saying that except for Prodos themself. And they lied so many times (especially if it came to excuses for delays and broken promises), that I take everything they say with a lot of salt until I have enough evidence to believe it. Has Fox ever said something that would confirm Prodos Statements that everything is basically Fox fault? Otherwise it sounds pretty convenient for an excuse...
Other than if it wasn't true Fox would usually say something, otherwise they tend to not respond. What Prodos has described with approvals, updating and licensed obligations is about normal when dealing with IP products. Even more-so when dealing with Fox traditionally, this is about norm for them.
I agree we've never seen proof that it's Fox at fault, but it does seem incredibly likely that Prodos have struggled to deal with them. Some of that must surely be Fox's doing, but I'd suspect that some of it is also down to the way Prodos have approached it. For example, it would seem they got initial approval on the minis for the board game based on completed and constructed minis (possibly even greens or even 3d sculpts) and then made all 115k minis for the 5000 box print run (2500 more boxes than they had actually sold - causing a future KS exclusivity issue) and only then presented 7-8 part minis to Fox in their final form. Not surprisingly Fox appear then to have rejected them as too many parts for a boardgame, causing months of delay while Prodos redesigned the moulds, got the 2-3 part models re-approved and then had to scrap the original 115k models and remake the lot. I don't see fethups like that as Fox's fault, it's nothing more than bad project management on Prodos' behalf, wasting both time and huge amounts of money (and probably pissing Fox off in the process).
Have Fox been helpful? probably not. But for sure Prodos have attempted to shoot themselves in the foot with their gun of incompetence at practically every turn.
Automatically Appended Next Post: and I think it's hard to blame Fox for the poor communication throughout. It's not Fox's fault that Prodos don't appear to be able to make more than a handful of games per day, that's just poor planning from them.
Fox have a process to be followed. They are not hell bent on making Prodos' life difficult. It's a process. It's up to Prodos to be able to follow that process in full. Their regular failure to do so has been the root of their issues from multiparts to retail shipping to funding goals to misleading communications.
they said the rejected minis had been ground up and recycled. I'm not sure how viable that is, but I'd think at the least it could be used as filler to bulk out further batches of resin.
biggusdoggus wrote: they said the rejected minis had been ground up and recycled. I'm not sure how viable that is, but I'd think at the least it could be used as filler to bulk out further batches of resin.
I didn't think it was possible to "recycle" resin minis like that (unlike metal). Obviously I don't know the exact chemical makeup of the resin nor would I be able to do much with it given my last chem engineering class was about two decades ago but surprising nonetheless and not to be taken without some salt given the suppposed source.
biggusdoggus wrote: Given that Fox weren't even mentioned on the original kickstarter and that there was not even a hint of issues between Prodos and Fox until long after they'd been funded, you'd have been hard pushed to identify a problem in this case.
Not a problem, but something of a yellow flag.
The more fingers in the pie, and all that. Actual problems with third parties, unfortunately, tend to surface after the funding.
A guy on BGG was doing a tutorial on assembling his Queen. Sounds like he paid a premium for a gak product. The resin of the legs does not hold up to the weight of the figure. Hopefully he just got one out of a bad batch...
The KoW Tyrant Blaine had the same problem the resin Prodos is using just isn't able to support the weight of top heavy models it may not be isolated incidence that said the heat in your country may have an impact.
DaveC wrote: The KoW Tyrant Blaine had the same problem the resin Prodos is using just isn't able to support the weight of top heavy models it may not be isolated incidence that said the heat in your country may have an impact.
Is it really REALLY hot in Germany? That is where the guy on BGG is from.
DaveC wrote: The KoW Tyrant Blaine had the same problem the resin Prodos is using just isn't able to support the weight of top heavy models it may not be isolated incidence that said the heat in your country may have an impact.
"Disclaimer: Your country may cause our minis to melt"
Maybe he had the queen near a heat source. I just realised that his queen is pretty blue. It's a known problem with Prodos that they are not able to adequately mix their restics/resine. The composition varies from model to model. You can easily see that by the color. Some models are more gray, and others are more blue, or any mix between gray and blue. In generel, the more blue a prodos miniature appears, the softer and more heat sensitive it is.
I was lucky. My queen is nearly completely gray, with just the slightest glance of blue in it, and it is pretty solid and does not bend. I also have some gray alien warriors which are fine, and some blue ones which are bendy. With Prodos it's the luck of the draw...
But if a model is "too blue" to work, thats a faulty product and I would ask for a new one or a refund.
wow, that was fast. Jarek from Prodos answered me already:
"Hi there, It's caused with 1st casts from a fresh mould, Resin gets into reaction with alcohol, to be honest is should be scrapped at manufacturing, however sometimes it may go through.
Please send us your address for replacement, Agata (in CC) will send you a new model, thanks."
So, this will solve the problem definitely.
So, it is a quality control issue. Not sure how 'sometimes it may go through' happens. If you know the first X out of the mold are gak, you toss out X or even X+1 automatically.
These guys really are a gak show. At least they are going to replace the bad queen for the guy though.
And of course, some of us have yet to get anything...
Did that update, that was supposed to be on Friday, that was delayed, ever get posted up anywhere?
Automatically Appended Next Post: This just up....
Prodos Games Ltd
Prodos Games Ltd
Oct 27 2015
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Hello all,
First things first, we'd like to clear up some confusion regarding our last update. Our intention was not to cause any panic, but to explain that if we split ship AvP, it will cost us money that we have not included in the calculations we made during our KS.
There is no between the lines here, just that we will have to pay some money towards this. Apologies for the lack of clarity!
Shipping of Wave 2 will begin tomorrow. That consists of the Board Game and all available add-ons, plus the Berserker Model, Royal Guard Model and Predator Tiles.
Wave 3 will include all outstanding items – this will begin immediately after Wave 2.
We are predicting that Wave 2 will take 6 weeks to complete, due to the cost of shipping.
As for USA backers, the Board Games have made their way through customs and are now in a dispatch centre, awating the add ons. However, more than 300 backers have not yet updated their Pledge Manager with their real name or surname (using usernames instead). We will update you all with a link to the affected Post Codes in the next few days.
Last week, we visited Fox in London. We have agreed to continue manufacturing AvP as it is, as well as releasing a standalone AvP product that will have less of the 'wargaming' features of the current version – but it will be fast and furious!. More information about this when it comes and, don't worry, it won't be a Kickstarter release!
You can pin the legs of the queen to give it more rigidity. I would expect Wargamers to be able to do this, but it isn't practical for teenage boardgame players.
Questions for Prodos:
Will Wave 2 be shipped out to US / North American backers with their board games? Or, will that be shipped separately?
Will Wave 3 contain the 3D tile board?
I recall speaking to a Prodo's representative at Adepticon and he said that the 3D board pieces will have removable wall segments so you can play it flat(er) or higher. They did this in response to the change of design in making the walls too shallow.
grossey wrote: You can pin the legs of the queen to give it more rigidity. I would expect Wargamers to be able to do this, but it isn't practical for teenage boardgame players.
Seriously? How are you going to fully pin the legs with the bends they have?
How about instead we expect Prodos to cast the damned things correctly and QC their damned product?
DaveC wrote: The KoW Tyrant Blaine had the same problem the resin Prodos is using just isn't able to support the weight of top heavy models it may not be isolated incidence that said the heat in your country may have an impact.
"Disclaimer: Your country may cause our minis to melt"
DaveC wrote: The KoW Tyrant Blaine had the same problem the resin Prodos is using just isn't able to support the weight of top heavy models it may not be isolated incidence that said the heat in your country may have an impact.
"Disclaimer: Your country may cause our minis to melt"
"Yeah but its a dry heat !" - " stow it hudson !"
I watched the movies again the other day and it's genuinely quite hilarious how many quotes can be applied to the KS saga
Prodos can talk about the added expense of shipping in waves but I've still received zero waves. If prodos came out and said to only expect one parcel it'd sound fairly reasonable to me, all things considered. But don't stall and complain to me about how expensive wave shipping is if there isn't the intent to ship in waves.
(I know I cant compare AVP with Kingdom Death Monster, but considering both announced shipping at similar times I have received Wave 1 and 2 from Kingdom Death and sweet FA from Prodos.)
not even an email to say something is on the way :(
I'm in the same boat. Unfortunately, with thier limited shipping funds, I'm sure they would rather make 3 backers less disapointed than one backer getting three copies of the boardgame. Oh well, I've resigned myself to being last, so if I get it before anyone else, I'll be pleasantly surprised. Yeah.... Right...
not even an email to say something is on the way :(
I got a PM from the Prodos chap on here saying the remaining UK will be posted in the next few weeks, that was dated 19th October.
And the US backers can feel good that their box games are sitting at some un-named 3rd party distro company 'waiting for the add-ons'. Who the feth wants to guess when Prodos gets enough money to send those add-ons to link up with the box games and pay the un-named company to actually send us our stuff?
Hmmm torn - I had set myself a mental deadline of 31st October to see progress on delivering my rewards before sending a Letter Before Action to start small claims court proceedings - I think 4 months after retail release is a fair enough time to establish breach of contract. Now there does seem to be activity, do I stretch my patience further and see if I get a shipping e-mail this week, or just say feth it and start the ball rolling?
Wouldn't waste your money on small claims . Delays are something that has president in kickstarters and they are shipping the products just slower than you would like .they are communicating with backers . So as you were aware that delays could be an issue and still completed the contract buy putting your payment details in then you are legally expected to insure you are aware and happy for any inherent risk , and that buy completing the payment part of the transaction you are agreeing with the terms and conditions. Plus even if a judge did ignore all this then you have almost no hope of getting a C.C.J against a company based out of the uk .
And a c.c.j isn't a sure way of getting your money even if you get sheriffs involved ( or the equivalent in Poland )
CURNOW wrote: Wouldn't waste your money on small claims . Delays are something that has president in kickstarters and they are shipping the products just slower than you would like .they are communicating with backers . So as you were aware that delays could be an issue and still completed the contract buy putting your payment details in then you are legally expected to insure you are aware and happy for any inherent risk , and that buy completing the payment part of the transaction you are agreeing with the terms and conditions. Plus even if a judge did ignore all this then you have almost no hope of getting a C.C.J against a company based out of the uk .
And a c.c.j isn't a sure way of getting your money even if you get sheriffs involved ( or the equivalent in Poland )
Small Claims would be £25, a price I'd be happy to pay to be honest, even if what I got from that £25 was a bit of legal clarity around how UK courts would treat Kickstarters. Delays are acceptable - I agree that if that were the entire basis of a claim - "you said you'd deliver by x, it's now x+y months", that it would likely fail. But with Prodos openly saying that they (a) spent AvP money elsewhere, and (b) that they are now out of money to ship everything to backers in one go, I'd argue that they have breached the contract - specifically the term that funds will be spent on the project. This doesn't deal with the multiple falsehoods that they have issued. Further, I added purchases on in the Pledge Manager which is certainly outside the possibly restrictive terms of the Kickstarter project.
It's by no means an open and shut case, but it's a legally interesting one, and one that as someone with some legal standing/ background I'd find very intellectually interesting, aside from the "getting my stuff" motivation.
The KS was based in Lemington and funds were raised in £s. Had the KS been based in Poland and in euros, I may not have backed the same amount. After all, Lemington isn't far away. Poland is.
PomWallaby wrote: The KS was based in Lemington and funds were raised in £s. Had the KS been based in Poland and in euros, I may not have backed the same amount. After all, Lemington isn't far away. Poland is.
The other reason I'm getting twitchy - Jarek has implied (stated would be too strong a word) that once Rob Alderman leaves Prodos, Prodos UK as a company will be merged into the Polish registered companies, making any form of civil proceedings significantly more difficult (I know UK law, I don't know Polish, let alone Polish law).
Quite interestingly (or amusingly, depending on how you look at it) the current Tabletop Gaming magazing has an interview with a 'Prodos Employee' about AvP.
Employee? Or director? Or stock holder? Or owner? It's all so confusing even before you add on the "soon to be ex-" prefix to any or all of the previous titles.
I was always suspicious al the 'soon to be ex' talk coupled with the burst of communication from Jarek was no more than an attempt to squash criticism on the new Not Prodos KS/deflect attention on the KS away from Prodos. Once the criticisms slowed/stopped, so did Prodos' communication with us.
Now, I know this is just tin foil hat type suspicion, but it would fit in with previous Prodos deception patterns.
I certainly link the increased activity from Prodos with the criticism of the new KS, so you're not alone in your tin foil hat bunker. CptJake.
I picked up Tabletop Gaming Mag, but I've still to get to the AvP bit. It will be interesting to see how much of a fluff piece it is. If it is fluffy, I can imagine Prodos making sure that someone at Fox sees it come renewal time. Decent retail sales and positive reviews can only help to cover up some teensy, minor shortcomings earlier on .
So between me and Prodos, there's been 30 emails(the majority of which was me chasing) trying to sort out my KS pledge. Pissed does not describe how I'm feeling about this right now.
Pacific wrote: Quite interestingly (or amusingly, depending on how you look at it) the current Tabletop Gaming magazing has an interview with a 'Prodos Employee' about AvP.
One guess at who that is?
Isn't Roland Berbereich something to do with Table top Gaming? I could be wrong, but it might explain his 'lively' defences of Prodos in the AvP facebook group.
Pacific wrote: Quite interestingly (or amusingly, depending on how you look at it) the current Tabletop Gaming magazing has an interview with a 'Prodos Employee' about AvP.
One guess at who that is?
Isn't Roland Berbereich something to do with Table top Gaming? I could be wrong, but it might explain his 'lively' defences of Prodos in the AvP facebook group.
I was referencing what was going on in the thread earlier with comments that Rob Alderman wasn't a Prodos employee..
.. Then he is introduced as a Prodos employee in the interview of the magazine..
I know he has obviously left Prodos subsequent to the interview in the mag, but it struck me as funny.
Pacific wrote: Quite interestingly (or amusingly, depending on how you look at it) the current Tabletop Gaming magazing has an interview with a 'Prodos Employee' about AvP.
One guess at who that is?
Isn't Roland Berberich something to do with Table top Gaming? I could be wrong, but it might explain his 'lively' defences of Prodos in the AvP facebook group.
Roland Berberich is Prodos fanboy to the core. Any disscussion with him about Prodos faults is pointless because he thinks Prodos are gods of wargaming that can only produce pure awesomness.
timd wrote: Has anyone who has actually rec'd their box played a game yet?
T
I've seen a couple of people posting about it on BGG. Seems to be pretty mixed reviews, between both ends of the spectrum. I think that the lack of more reviews, etc., in and of itself speaks volumes.
Angry Joe iirc as well as Frontline gaming did a video battlereport on youtube. I'm not 100% sure but I think either one or both sources basically said the marines were the worst and predators were OP.
Sorry, couldn't help myself. I was thinking, three weeks? How about the last 18 or so months. I just can not believe that so many of us haven't gotten anything at all yet. How does this even happen by accident? Jarek talks a lot about ks creators lapping projects to fund the one before it, like that isn't exactly what they did with Warzone/AvP? I'm not trying to be unreasonable, or rage out or anything, but better decisions could have and should have been made and seriously you shouldn't have required much forethought to see that. I just don't want to hear excuses anymore. It's time for solutions. It's time to fix what you can and accept the rest. Redemption starts one backer getting their pledges at a time, consistently.
They wont send them out one at a time they will build up sets for a few weeks then send them out on mass to get a postage discount....thats what i keep telling myself anyway lol
I ordered a set before the summer, and it never arrived. They sent a replacement, and after 6 weeks it showed up. I realized I had a "retail version" but had an extra bag of Preds & 2 extra marines! I ended up selling the two sets of 3 Preds on ebay for $37 & $30, and sold the Smart gunner, Tracker, and Flamer for $20 each too! Then sold the boxed game, minus minis for $50. The 10 tailess (yup, no tails, thx Prodos) aliens went for another $20!
I got the original order finally (after the replacement & Prodos got paid by carrier's insurance for lost package), the kickstarter version, and put the stuff on ebay (it's there now), and sold all the aliens for $135!
There are 7 Marines (Smart gunner, flamer, tracker, and 4 pulse rifles), PLUS the boxed game still left there on ebay!
At least it paid off in some way for me, and I can now afford to get into the new Horus Heresy Calth game!
Pacific wrote: It would actually be an interesting wager to guess whether the entire cast of the first Alien film will be dead before wave 1 completes shipping.
This seems a bit more, erm, morbid, then I expected from you
Pacific wrote: It would actually be an interesting wager to guess whether the entire cast of the first Alien film will be dead before wave 1 completes shipping.
George RR Martin will have released his last 2 books for ASOIAF before we see anything lol.
This last week end, a friend of Monsieur H and I took for us our pledge at Crisis in Antwerp (Belgium)...
You'll be happy to know that even if we must inform Jarek/Michal about the name of our friend, send a copy of my ID card, a copy of my pledge manager (same for H) where I wrote that I could have the pred tiles (Jarek/Michal had it before) and our friend must had his own ID card...
The prodos employee didn't check NOTHING (noticed and reported by another friends) so I could have "a lot of friends of mine" who could come for pick my pledge... And he forgot my predalien and a power loader for H...
The boxes our friend got were 2 KS versions and 4 Retail versions...
Obviously it wasn't so difficult to tick what we would have... (our friend din't notice anything he never pledge for AVP)...
Thank you prodos, I'll write you an another mail... Maybe the predalien shipping cost would less than a box so I can expect it very soon...
Nevertheless, I'll not complaining too much when I can see that many other backer didn't see the shadow of any box...
Morikun wrote: This last week end, a friend of Monsieur H and I took for us our pledge at Crisis in Antwerp (Belgium)...
You'll be happy to know that even if we must inform Jarek/Michal about the name of our friend, send a copy of my ID card, a copy of my pledge manager (same for H) where I wrote that I could have the pred tiles (Jarek/Michal had it before) and our friend must had his own ID card...
The prodos employee didn't check NOTHING (noticed and reported by another friends) so I could have "a lot of friends of mine" who could come for pick my pledge... And he forgot my predalien and a power loader for H...
The boxes our friend got were 2 KS versions and 4 Retail versions...
Obviously it wasn't so difficult to tick what we would have... (our friend din't notice anything he never pledge for AVP)...
Thank you prodos, I'll write you an another mail... Maybe the predalien shipping cost would less than a box so I can expect it very soon...
Nevertheless, I'll not complaining too much when I can see that many other backer didn't see the shadow of any box...
Well, thanks for feedback, however not sure you are trying to imply? Shall we stop trusting backers?
It was me in fact issuing the KS out at Crisis (Jarek) and on of my cursed skills is photographic memory... so I looked at your print out email and know what it was about, thus I said "not worries" when you wanted to show me your ID.
Maybe I should be more policing this process and treat all bakers like they would have "a lot of friends of mine"...
Hello Jarek, "as I can discuss with God instead of His Saints" here are some of comments :
- A lot of french friends (and belgium ones) quoted that your control process were not very so serious and several gave the idea that, funnily, they could pick lots of pledges for lots of pledgers... I don't speak about MY pledge in particular but you would agree that it give not a very good image about prodos after all the mistakes... (And I wasn't at Crisis but a friend of mine)
- As you have an eagle eye and you tell me that you personnally looked at my email print... Can you explain me why I miss my (only one) predalien mini please ? And why Monsieur H miss one power loader ?
Today I receive this email :
Hi there!
Your AvP Kickstarter order is now being partially sent
Shipment 1:
Free items:
AVP Game (Box) 1, A Royal Guard x1 1, OK
100k:
A Warrior x5 1, OK
155k:
A Predalien x1 1, NO ! IT'S MISSING !!
Addons:
A Queen x1 1, OK
Shipment 2:
Shipment 3:
Prodos Games team
On the other hand, can you explain me why you gave not to my friend the pred tiles although you let me trust that it could possible to pick it at Crisis ?
As I think that a predalien would cost many much less than a starter box, would you be kind enough to tell me of I can expect it for the next days instead of next months/year please ?
And one more time (after many many many ones) : CAN YOU ALLOW MONSIEUR H, CCCP AND ME TO PUBLISH THE FRENCH VERSION CARDS PLEASE ? You still have not opened the possibility for french backers to order a french version of AVP on your pledge manager !!
Thank you in advance for your answerS...
Serviteur,
Morikun
(P.S : I must confess that your prototypes for Age of Tyrants are very beautifull)
Joyboozer wrote: Oh feth me, one of you either learn French or the other polish, you both arguing in English is just painful!
Excuse my bad english Joyboozer... MAybe I could invite you in the french fora to discuss about the AVP problems ? We could see if your french language is more understandable than my (our) english ones ?
Hello Jarek, "as I can discuss with God instead of His Saints" here are some of comments :
- A lot of french friends (and belgium ones) quoted that your control process were not very so serious and several gave the idea that, funnily, they could pick lots of pledges for lots of pledgers... I don't speak about MY pledge in particular but you would agree that it give not a very good image about prodos after all the mistakes... (And I wasn't at Crisis but a friend of mine)
- As you have an eagle eye and you tell me that you personnally looked at my email print... Can you explain me why I miss my (only one) predalien mini please ? And why Monsieur H miss one power loader ?
Today I receive this email :
Hi there!
Your AvP Kickstarter order is now being partially sent
Shipment 1:
Free items:
AVP Game (Box) 1, A Royal Guard x1 1, OK
100k:
A Warrior x5 1, OK
155k:
A Predalien x1 1, NO ! IT'S MISSING !!
Addons:
A Queen x1 1, OK
Shipment 2:
Shipment 3:
Prodos Games team
On the other hand, can you explain me why you gave not to my friend the pred tiles although you let me trust that it could possible to pick it at Crisis ?
As I think that a predalien would cost many much less than a starter box, would you be kind enough to tell me of I can expect it for the next days instead of next months/year please ?
And one more time (after many many many ones) : CAN YOU ALLOW MONSIEUR H, CCCP AND ME TO PUBLISH THE FRENCH VERSION CARDS PLEASE ? You still have not opened the possibility for french backers to order a french version of AVP on your pledge manager !!
Thank you in advance for your answerS...
Serviteur,
Morikun
(P.S : I must confess that your prototypes for Age of Tyrants are very beautifull)
Hi there, I have already gave you a green light to go ahead with the cards. Thanks
Thanks for feedback regarding our process, we will police a bit more from now on, Thanks.
Joyboozer wrote: Oh feth me, one of you either learn French or the other polish, you both arguing in English is just painful!
Excuse my bad english Joyboozer... MAybe I could invite you in the french fora to discuss about the AVP problems ? We could see if your french language is more understandable than my (our) english ones ?
Serviteur,
Morikun
I only know foul language, sexual innuendo and pick up lines, still up for a chat?
Note 'war zone resurrection' pops in to argue with a backer but doesn't post an update on how shipping is going. Pretty much indicates nothing has been shipped yet.
I only know foul language, sexual innuendo and pick up lines, still up for a chat?
Aucun problème mon Cher Joyboozer : c'est avec plaisir que nous attendons ta visite sur Warmania par exemple ^^
Note 'war zone resurrection' pops in to argue with a backer but doesn't post an update on how shipping is going. Pretty much indicates nothing has been shipped yet.
It's absolutely that !! I would accept arguing... But after 3 times about missing stuff and many much more about shipping wave 1... It's very serious... Really...
Just an FYI for you all, I decided to run an experiment - rather than adding in the last items I wanted when the pledge manager re-opened, I ordered from the Prodos website directly. I pre-ordered well in advance, and the release date/shipping date they gave was the 5th of November.
So of course, here we are a week later, and they have yet to be shipped.
I don't care how much I have to paint, when these finally show up, they will take top priority! I've been spending the last two years getting ready for this. Now I just need to be patient for two more years and then I might get an update as to when they will ship to me!
If you are not a member of closed Facebook page, a bit of an update.
1). Spam from Ninja Division.
Prodos have supplied ND with customer details to action the US delivery. However they also included a fair number of UK customers too. When this was pointed out, as it breaks UK laws on data protection, we had the usual oh so professional response from Jarek and a mini melt down. ND have confirmed to those of us who asked that Prodos supplied UK customer details.
2). Lastest update from Jarek...
Hi there, another quick update.
1st off all, some of you have received a spam email from Ninja Division, this issue is now resolved. Chris from ND has confirmed that all emails of USA backers we have provided to them are now removed from their emailing list.
https://gyazo.com/b35a6cf81993c149aa1751ff68336cbd
2. Shipping this week only 87 parcels went out, Wednesday was a bank holiday here in Poland and we have few staff members off, the good news is that next week we plan to speed up on KS shipping.
3. Another reminder to update your pledge manager with real names please, we still have several accounts not updated (300+)... please make sure that your data is correct otherwise we won't be able to ship your KS.
4. Ninja Division is our USA AvP distributor. However we are handling the 2nd wave of KS, not ND. Some of 2nd wave parcels will have to be shipped from Poland due to a mistake we have made, we have shipped around 10% less add-ons that we should to fulfill all USA/Canada.
5. Australia - they are part of UE shipping, we have them on the list, we would like to however make sure that we ship you KS in no more than 2 waves due ridiculous shipping cost (2 AVP games with addons = 190 Australian dollars). We are also looking to get some local distributor to help us out in fulfilling the KS.
6. Finally, every backer with it's 2nd wave will receive a 25% discount voucher to our online store as a compensation for the issues we have caused. It can be used at any time by you or friend of yours. Thanks.
Unless someone jumps in before I get a chance, I'll go and measure them in a few minutes. The Predators are VERY tall, I can tell you that now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Predator - shooting - 44mm
Predator - spear - 43mm
Predator - disc - 40mm
Marines - average - 35mm
Alien Infant Warrior - 44mm
GW Tactical Marine - 33mm
I used a cheap school ruler so measurements won't be perfect, but that should give you an idea. Measurements do not include bases, and are to the top of each models head.
Having said that, the Colonial Marines don't look half bad next to GW or other "28mm" figures.
So I had thought US/Canada shipping was waiting on the 2nd wave stuff to ship. If that isn't the case, what is going on? Ever notice how their updates tend to cause more confusion than offer usable information? If ND is shipping NA's wave one stuff, and are not shipping the wave 2 stuff, what gives? Is it just that Prodos can't pay ND to ship? Does ND even have the product to ship? Questions man, we've got questions!
As far as I can tell ND sent out everything (180 boxes) that they were provided by Prodos. This lot was collected by the postal service on 25th Sept and should have arrived with everybody who was lucky enough to be on the list
as to whether any of the other boxes due US backers has made it to the 3rd party shipper Prodos decided to use, and if so whether any of it has been sent on it's way or whether they are sitting on it until all of it arrives you'll have to try and dissect Prodos's statements
Prodos said the shipment of game boxes reached the new shipper. They also said they will wait for the 2nd wave to hit that shipper so it can be shipped with the game boxes.
I didn't think there was another way to interpret Jarek/Prodos recent communication.
CptJake wrote: Prodos said the shipment of game boxes reached the new shipper. They also said they will wait for the 2nd wave to hit that shipper so it can be shipped with the game boxes.
I didn't think there was another way to interpret Jarek/Prodos recent communication.
Sorry, temporarily forgot that ND was not shipping the latest round of Wave 1, even though they are still being called the NA distributer. Back to the regular confusion...
Sorry if this has already been asked (219 pages, yo!), but is the hard-plastic edition happening? From what I can gather, the retail box is full-on resin, and I vaguely remember someone mentioning that only the KS version would be resin, to be eventually replaced with HIPS frames. Am I imagining it or is that still the plan?
Grumpae wrote: I'm pretty sure they've abandond the idea of plastic, at least for now, due to the expense. So it will be resin for the forseeable future anyways.
Yep, the KS Exclusive Resin is also what is in the retail version.
Grumpae wrote: I'm pretty sure they've abandond the idea of plastic, at least for now, due to the expense. So it will be resin for the forseeable future anyways.
Yep, the KS Exclusive Resin is also what is in the retail version.
Yeah, I don't see the plastics happening anytime soon (and I was one of the folks who decided not to back last minute and wait for the plastics along with some of what became wave 2 resins). If they're having trouble financially with regards to half the rewards for the backers without dipping into retail profits, I don't see them splurging tens of thousands of GBP or zloty on plastic moulds that will undercut those existing sales.
Grumpae wrote: I'm pretty sure they've abandond the idea of plastic, at least for now, due to the expense. So it will be resin for the forseeable future anyways.
Well then, it's a good thing they reduced the part count for those casual gamers to take full advantage of the widespread appeal of ...resin.
Board gamers come running for the great taste of resin.
Thanks for the info, guys! I would've preferred to wait for the plastic, but it sounds like it might never materialize, so I'll grab the resin box for X-mas.
-DE- wrote: Thanks for the info, guys! I would've preferred to wait for the plastic, but it sounds like it might never materialize, so I'll grab the resin box for X-mas.
You'll probably get yours if you buy it now before half the backers who paid years ago so it's a good time to get it if you absolutely must have the minis.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CURNOW wrote: The resin ones are also looking like they may never materialise for most of us too.
You can order it off the webstore and get it within a week! And remember that for every retail purchase, one backer gets a 10% higher chance of getting some of their rewards fulfilled. :(
New breed of horror is coming! Pre-order now at your friendly local gaming store as we start sending new add-ons 5th of December to the shops!
Alien Stalkers, Infants and Royal Guard are going to clash with Predators' set. Both groups will have to deal human forces - regular USCM Marines and elite Weyland -Yutani Commandos.
Stay tuned for more updates!
Alien vs Predator The Miniatures Game's photo.
CURNOW wrote: Well you know if backers had their stuff we could be painting it up and showing it off and generating sales for them ...but that's a silly idea .
Now thats just crazy talk! Not the painting, showing off and generating interest and sales part, but the backers having their stuff part...
Wow. Looks like I really dodged a bullet when I dropped this one. Sorry to hear that it's become such an awful clusterfeth, guys. I'll be sure and stay away from anything Prodos in future...
After sending a rather snotty email or two, I may actually get my stuff next week. With exception to some Facehuggers, Predator Youngbloods and the objective markers.
I should be getting:
AvP box set w/Royal Guard, Pred Berserker, Pred doggies, Alien Queen, Alien Crusher, 5 Alien "Warrior" and a Pred-Alien.
Thanks for the review, morikun.
I was planning to do some reviews and guides on the oficial prodos forum, but got too frustrated because they don't enable new accounts. I am trying to get access to the prodos forum (i.e. The AvP section), and wrote countless emails to michal, jared and the general service and help mail adresses, but never received any response.
I could at least showcase my finished queen and cruscher, and my custom milliput-bases (i am the low-cost hobbyist type ;-))
Thanks. The background is the battlesystems scifi-terrain which was already mentioned in a previous post as alternative to the boardgame tiles.It's a lot of fun playing AvP with this 3D terrain.
And here is the Alien Crusher. "If it bleeds, we can kill it." ;-)
(the lights make it look kinda odd; I'll try to make a better shot tomorrow, with actual daylight)
I was planning to do some reviews and guides on the oficial prodos forum, but got too frustrated because they don't enable new accounts. I am trying to get access to the prodos forum (i.e. The AvP section), and wrote countless emails to michal, jared and the general service and help mail adresses, but never received any response.
Why am I not surprised ? I must write Michal 3 times (in the 3rd mail I recalled him that I was in the french translate team to put his light on) before getting my confirmation... I could tell you "keep going on dude"... But when I see that they don't put even an eye on the bad comments on the official FB page, they really don't mind having good comments on a forum they obviously gave up since decades...
I could at least showcase my finished queen and cruscher, and my custom milliput-bases (i am the low-cost hobbyist type ;-))
This is exactly my way of hobbyist life !!! It's more intersting according to me... Personnally I really love the Oyumaru stuff (I pledged for 2 battle systems strongolds with lot of medical and alien walls in the view to play with AVP minis... When you are very lucky to get all, it's very cool indeed)
Your Queen Alien and your Crusher are very very fantastic !! Can you give me your Queen Alien blue scheme recipe please ? I'm very curious !! Have you got a blog ?
shadowtyrant wrote: And here is the Alien Crusher. "If it bleeds, we can kill it." ;-)
(the lights make it look kinda odd; I'll try to make a better shot tomorrow, with actual daylight)
With the aliens, I always thought that if it bleeds it kills you!
Fantastic job again though! I like the more browny colour, gives it an 'iron' look and makes you think it probably weighs a lot!
I do love the Battlesystems terrain and have thought about creating a big board setup a number of times, could use it for this and Infinity (any number of games actually!)
Do the AvP rules work on anything other than the official tiles do you know?
Do the AvP rules work on anything other than the official tiles do you know?
@ Pacific : Hum, I really don't know but I think you could adapt it... On the other side, there is a possibility to play like a wargame... AFAIC, I'll use the AVP minis to play at In Her Majesty's Name : My Imperial Japanese Army will meet very soon the xenomorphs and the predators far far away in the Amazonia Jungle ^^
@ prodos/jarek/warzone/other... : Come on !! Would you be kind enough to give us some explanations ? Or must we understand that your "hey, we will speak to each other truly" behaviour was only to avoid some berserker punches in your face at Crisis ?
No answer about my missing minis you forgot to give at Crisis, nothing on your forum (without granting access to new subscribers like Shadowtyrant), nothing on your blog (since october 8th), nothing (aka no answer to the 89 angry posts) on your FB page... Excuse me but it deserves a stand ovation !!!
What would be the excuse this time ? The stairs are late ? Locust invasion ? Obiwan Kenobi ? 42 ?
At least you have something to show for it lots of us haven't.
Absolutely right. That's why I wrote few post ago here and many times in french there that I'll not complain a lot due to the fact that many other backers didn't received anything...
But I represent some french backers who are still waiting without information, no answer from prodos and don't speak english.
A user told me one day that HeroQuest 25th project was the worst of all... I answered that AVP was even worst : for HQ, we don't know anything but for AVP, we know that minis are ready... but not for backers
I have a feeling that the November 2nd shipping emails some of us received were untrue. Been 21 days and nothing has shown. There was a guy on the FB page that received an assurance from Jarek that his stuff would be shipped after giving Jarek quite a bit of grief. He received a notification on the 19th his order was shipped and received his box in the US today. So 4 days from Poland to the US. I'm at 21 days. So I have to guess the emails on the 2nd were just that. An email. And nothing was actually shipped.
I'm pretty sure that despite multiple checks, we'll all have see our kickstarter aliases instead of our real names....
And as for avoiding 3 waves of shipping, they seem to also avoiding 2.
Yes, I have received absolutely nothing to date, and have not heard back ONCE from my emails to Prodos! Does anyone know a more direct channel to contact them than their "Customer Service" email (service@prodos.co.uk)?
Bioptic wrote: Yes, I have received absolutely nothing to date, and have not heard back ONCE from my emails to Prodos! Does anyone know a more direct channel to contact them than their "Customer Service" email (service@prodos.co.uk)?
Ok so they say its 6inch long . That would make the apc around 1:56th scale ie 28mm ish so we may have a usable apc coming out soon .
Would be nice to have some marines to go with it
Real apc was 28ft long if 28mm = 6ft this one should between 26 and 28ft
The Khurasan 'Caiman' works well for 28mm:
They also have it in 15mm, as well as Marines, Hive Warriors and Alien Hunters. Can get enough 15mm figures to easily play any AvP scenario you want really.
I'm thinking when my Prodos crap eventually shows up (see, I can be optimistic!) I am going to sell it off and use different rules and go the 15mm route at this point.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have pictures of my as of yet unpainted Khurasan APC along with a ruler here:
@ me.
Will Wave 2 be shipped out to US / North American backers with their board games? Or, will that be shipped separately?
