I'm fairly sure the link is a breach of data protection and I recognise at least 2 Dakka members on that list EDIT they've removed it I've PMd the 2 members to let them know they need to update their pledge manager
Prodos Games Ltd says:
Hi there, another update.
We are going to bring back Kickstarter page after Christmas.
Shipping, continues, as per our previous update, we plan to finish it within 3 moths, thus there is no need of sending us emails asking if your KS was sent out. You will be notified via automated email once our packing team print out copy of your pledge manager to be processed.
This week along with last one we got 232 parcels out (shipped Monday and Today). Approximately 650 in total of 2nd wave is out.
Another call: to update update your PM! PLEASE.
For example, out of first 200 backers we have 29 with "nicknames" instead real names, we simply can't ship it as the parcel must be sign in.
Especially USA and Canadian Backers, as we are getting ready for your 2nd wave to be shipped soon...
EXAMPLE LINK:,
https://gyazo.com/879c1f1797e2a80bd706bd4d88a9f24a Please go and update the data in the pledge manager at calc.prodos.co.uk Additionally we have 81 backers, not "activated" yet, meaning their Pledge Manager is not filled in, if you one of them please contact us: service@prodos.co.uk https://gyazo.com/38193ddb13862c14ccd2057ee02b0974 Notification at 2nd Nov and still no arrived:
These parcels are mainly 2nd wave only (add-ons), they are being processes gradually, packing team simply allocated their capacity on backers that have not received 1st wave yet at all. Please expect them to come shortly (within a week or two at max).
Nothing else has changed from last (14th November) update, shipping continues, we have been given more approval on addons, meaning that more parcels with more models will go out.
Regards
PG
Yeah come on guys stop wanting to know where the 2yrs overdue product is !!! We are on track to deliver it all out in the next 12wks at 115 parcels a week thats a grand total of 1380 parcels .....um yeah even tho 99% of all our backers have received their pledges ...um i guess its just happens to be people you dont know or have no internet ..um yeah thats what it is ...um how many backers did we have ??
Anyway its all your fault for having names we dont count as names and because of this excus....um i mean reason we cant send you anything untill you make it past our imagery moving goalposts
Prodos Games Ltd says:
Hi there, another update.
We are going to bring back Kickstarter page after Christmas.
Especially USA and Canadian Backers, as we are getting ready for your 2nd wave to be shipped soon...
Nothing else has changed from last (14th November) update, shipping continues, we have been given more approval on addons, meaning that more parcels with more models will go out.
Regards
PG
What the feth would be the point of bringing back the KS page at this time?
Does this imply US and Canadian backers should have already received Wave 1?
And more 'approved add-ons' and yet no specifics or pictures.
And to add to the hilarity, I'm one of the two dakkanauts DaveC just PM'ed. Funnily enough, I also happen to be 100% certain that I checked whether I had entered my real name in the PM last time they brought this up. Turns out I already had. Just now, it magically showed my nic in that very same name+surname field.
Bolognesus wrote: And to add to the hilarity, I'm one of the two dakkanauts DaveC just PM'ed.
Funnily enough, I also happen to be 100% certain that I checked whether I had entered my real name in the PM last time they brought this up.
Turns out I already had.
Just now, it magically showed my nic in that very same name+surname field.
Kind of a new level of fething with us, IMO.
There was definitely something fishy with that pledge manager. Anytime I changed something, such as dropping the non-existant 3D terrain, I had to also re choose the optional freebies, every time. So its no surprise that the nic names re-appear, probably everytime they re-open the pledge manager... sigh.
Ok ffs so i just went and changed mine .it was open again and even tho i checked it last time to make sure it had my full name in it now only had my surname . They need to get the gak together and email everyone with issues and tell them what they are .
Yeah, happened to me as well. After the pledge manager got reopened, my name was replaced by the kickstarter nick again. Happened not every time, but several times, so I made screenshots to prove that I already entered the correct data, and the last time the Pledge manager was reopened, I had to change the nick again, even though I definitely filled it out correctly before.the whole system is a big mess and seems to overwrite some data on it's own, whenever Prodos reopens it.@Prodos: JUST STOP THAT gak AND GET YOURSELF TOGETHER!
I don't want to go on about it too much as I know a lot of people are still waiting for theirs, but just thought UK posters might take some heart from it. FYI mine included some wave 2 (the hounds) which I'm assuming is why it was delayed that long.
A couple of things I will mention. Firstly, feth me the box is heavy (6kg), secondly feth me those are some beautiful sculpts. Honestly, I wish the child language filter wasn't in place on the forum in this instance; the word 'feth' should be read as 'feth' - I don't swear that often, but they really are that good.
I don't want to go on about it too much as I know a lot of people are still waiting for theirs, but just thought UK posters might take some heart from it. FYI mine included some wave 2 (the hounds) which I'm assuming is why it was delayed that long.
A couple of things I will mention. Firstly, feth me the box is heavy (6kg), secondly feth me those are some beautiful sculpts. Honestly, I wish the child language filter wasn't in place on the forum in this instance; the word 'feth' should be read as 'feth' - I don't swear that often, but they really are that good.
Congrats! I don't know about everyone else, but I'm always happy to see another backer get their stuff! Happy hunting!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alex C wrote: On the topic of PM accuracy, it said on mine "Paid: £0"
I have paid already, and assume the "£0" means "no credit left to spend", right?
Does everyone else's say that?
Or is it weird because I'm a late backer?
Or does Prodos think I haven't paid yet?
I'm an original backer (lucky me...) and mine says the same. I'm also assuming that means you have no credit left. Your reciept should have the totals of everything you choose, and paid for. As long as you have that, you should be fine. Mostly...
Bolognesus wrote: And to add to the hilarity, I'm one of the two dakkanauts DaveC just PM'ed.
Funnily enough, I also happen to be 100% certain that I checked whether I had entered my real name in the PM last time they brought this up.
Turns out I already had.
Just now, it magically showed my nic in that very same name+surname field.
Kind of a new level of fething with us, IMO.
I've noticed this happening quite often, and, despite messaging Prodos to check my pledge manager was good, and being assured it was, continued to find changes.
Do we actually have a list of whats in wave 2 / 3 and what we are waiting for I've got stuff like the sqt and the head pack and if they arnt even ready yet i will just ditch them
i JUST WENT INTO MY PLEDGE MANAGER AND IT ASKED ME TO CLOSE IT. feths SAKE, WHY!
My real name is in the blue box at the top so i assume thats the name they use for shipping. Where do i look to see if its my real name on the shipping section??
Go to your details section in the top right . It should list your email address , full name , and the paypal you used . Then there is a separate tab for your address
The funny thing is there has never been any issue with my name yet I still haven't been shipped anything. It's almost like it's an excuse to cover up how pathetic they are as an organisation.
I just like how people who didn't pledge via the Kickstarter will not have the opportunity to see their message of "please don't ask us where your pledge is". Complete coincidence I stumbled across it on Dakka. Haven't once heard a peep out of them since I handed over my money.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: The funny thing is there has never been any issue with my name yet I still haven't been shipped anything. It's almost like it's an excuse to cover up how pathetic they are as an organisation.
Yeah same here. (Oh and hi, long time lurker finally bothered to register an account!).
What gets me is that the "don't bother us" update also says that the dispatch-type email (which seems like a lot of other people got on 2 Nov) actually is means "we might be dispatching it sometime... Soon!". I'm assuming that it isn't followed by an actual dispatch email so have no way of know when or if anything has really been posted. Just so fed up with the blatant lies and crap they keep coming out with, I just want my models!!
Soteks Prophet wrote: Well I bought my copy in my flgs 2 months ago and played it about 3 times as it's imbalanced as hell.
Also my FLGS now has alien queen/loader/etc in stock so I question why people bothered to kickstart it...
I question why I bothered too, but sadly my psychic vision was clouded two years ago and I didn't expect things to turn out the way that have. If I had known then... Well... I doubt anyone would have backed it if they'd known how useless prodos were going to be.
Soteks Prophet wrote: Well I bought my copy in my flgs 2 months ago and played it about 3 times as it's imbalanced as hell.
Also my FLGS now has alien queen/loader/etc in stock so I question why people bothered to kickstart it...
Were the predators overpowered and the marines under? I've never played but that is the impression I got from a few youtube playthroughs.
Ive been told Predators -> Marines -> (then some way) Aliens. There are some suggestions to up-power the aliens though. Just reading through the rules now, although Dungeon Saga is going to get most of my gaming time until I can do a good job of painting up the AvP figs.
TBH I got the game for the figs, high quality Alien and Predator miniatures being a dream of mine since as long as I can remember, the game will be a nice bonus if its at least playable. Although I know that's not the same for everyone, hopefully Prodos will continue to support the rules and release some FAQs if the game doesn't play cleanly.
Are you sure ?
Once you CLOSE the Kickstarter Survey, you wont be able to increase number of add-ons. Kickstarter Survey will be automatically CLOSED in April by Prodos Games Team.
Am I sure? Surer every single time I have to go into the same page, make sure that the data hasn't changed at all from the last time and then reclose awaiting Prodos pretending that this is the reason it hasn't shipped.
Am I sure? Utter...utter muppets...
pleased you got your order Pacific!
3 months?! When did they start saying they had begun shipping? Perhaps using a carrier pigeon relay team to deliver individual minis to the awaiting snail army, with their sloth riders, has not gone as planned. Muppets.
Yeah,
Not happy about the public flogging I got for having my screen name in the pledge manager.
Something I was sure I hadn't done and it now turns out I didn't.
Just to rub salt in the wound... The AVP box set price was slashed in my FLGs Black Friday sale.
I should have never backed them.
The first thing we had to do with the pledge manager was fill out our details. Pretty sure none of us were stupid enough to put our alias where it asked for name, the only way for that to be possible is its how Prodos designed their manager, to grab the alias and place it in that field. Problem seems to be it keeps grabbing it. Or they are deliberately replacing it.
The fact is I have receipts from each time I had to close it again showing my real name and I have communications stating that everything with my pledge manager was correct and that it was closed, yet checked it and found my name had been replaced and it had been opened again.
Like everything else with this project Prodos is to blame.
CURNOW wrote: As i will never see my pledge ,im tempted to change my name on the pledge manager to "jarek is a c**t " and see if that gets any attention
Got my replacement copy of AvP yesterday. All seems to be in order. Just need the Pred Youngbloods, Obj. markers annd face huggers. I put a little bit of an overview on my P&M blog- click my sig. (shameless plug there sorry). No pics just yet but so far as I can tell, the only thing wrong with my stuff, is the lack of a pair of vestigial arms for the Queen.
CURNOW wrote: As i will never see my pledge ,im tempted to change my name on the pledge manager to "jarek is a c**t " and see if that gets any attention
You just made a successful spot check to find them. Given the track record this kickstarter has, I'd say Prodos has a significant wisdom stat penalty to their spot skill. Ergo, the cloaked predators remain hidden.
There are a few people on Facebook reporting receiving their stuff today, including some that have received both their game box and their wave 2 minis in the one package (at least the wve 2 minis that have been released do far).
biggusdoggus wrote: There are a few people on Facebook reporting receiving their stuff today, including some that have received both their game box and their wave 2 minis in the one package (at least the wve 2 minis that have been released do far).
Not heard of any yet. The last I heard was that wave 2 was in transit to the third party distributor (ie NOT Ninja Division) in the US, and only when that arrives will things start trickling out to US backers. In addition they admitted they'd not sent enough wave 2 stuff in their first shipment, so there's more on the way. I don't think anybody managed to squeeze any credible timescales out of them though.
One Canadian got his wave 1 and 2 a week or so ago, but he was very much a special case as he was a vanity pledge backer - ie he ordered 100 sculpts of his own head. So far the recent arrivals all seem to be in mainland Europe, but given they'd be the shortest routes for delivery, probably not surprising.
I went in on a pledge with Forlorn and he just got a tracking number PM'ed to him on Facebook this morning from Jarek. We live in Jersey, fingers crossed it shows up.
Bellygrub wrote: I went in on a pledge with Forlorn and he just got a tracking number PM'ed to him on Facebook this morning from Jarek. We live in Jersey, fingers crossed it shows up.
They're using facebook to disseminate tracking numbers?
If that's the case it Sounds like they might only be sending out to Facebook friends first to try and get some people saying nice things on their page again.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: If that's the case it Sounds like they might only be sending out to Facebook friends first to try and get some people saying nice things on their page again.
Forlorn is definitely a squeaky wheel on the Facebook page. So they might just be sending it to him to shut him up
I received a PM on Facebook this morning from Jarek with a UPS tracking number. Have my fingers crossed that something is really shipped. I also used the opportunity to move funds around. I removed the rulebook that I highly doubt we will ever see or won't see for quite a while.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It's legit!
Summary: WARSAW,PL 12/3/2015 5:42 PM Arrival Scan
Details:
1 - WARSZAWA,PL 12/3/2015 5:30 PM Departure Scan
2 - WARSZAWA,PL 12/3/2015 4:45 PM Origin Scan
3 - WARSZAWA,PL 12/3/2015 2:48 PM Pickup Scan
4 - PL 12/2/2015 6:30 AM Order Processed: Ready for UPS
So why, if NA backers are supposed to be getting their stuff shipped by this mysterious (and entirely likey ficticious) third party distributer, is yours being shipped from Poland? I mean, congrats, but it doesn't set a good example for the rest of us. Should we all become a pain to Prodos? (I mean more than just being backers in the first place...)
Grumpae wrote: So why, if NA backers are supposed to be getting their stuff shipped by this mysterious (and entirely likey ficticious) third party distributer, is yours being shipped from Poland? I mean, congrats, but it doesn't set a good example for the rest of us. Should we all become a pain to Prodos? (I mean more than just being backers in the first place...)
I don't believe there is a shipment. I believe they held everything knowing wave 2 was coming. I received an email notice on November 2nd but nothing was ever shipped. I'm still mystified by this. Why send out notifications and then do nothing. None of this makes sense.
Hi there, Prodos is attending Dragonmeet in London this weekend. If you would like to collect your pledge at Dragonmeet please visit our stand, booth 5. Please bring with you a print out from your Pledge Manager. You may collect pledge for your friend however this will need an emial confirmation to Service@prodos.co.uk.
Another call to backers: please update you pledge manager with missing data. Please make sure that your name and surname is correct.
We haven't heard nothing from 81 backers that have not activated their pledge managers yet.
2nd November notifications are cleared out, please expect your parcels shortly.
We are waiting on wave 3 packaging approvals (Sentry Guns, Female Predator, Facehuggers, Colonial Marines Sergeant). Once we have a green light we will include them in 2nd wave shipping.
Remaining items for January approval: Resin Terrain set, Young Bloods,
and hopefully AvP Wargame.
That will be 100% of KS products!
2nd Wave parcels sent to date: 1271.
Next week plan: 200-250
Expecting finish date, if we get approval on time: End of Jan, beg Feb.
We are closed from 23rd Dec to 3rd of Jan. Thus, there will be nothing to update.
CU at Dragonmeet and have a nice weekend.
What about cloaked predators ? The alien ship and the pred youngblood had never been seen...
I don't know what thinking about this so optimistic update at all... All the mess cleaned in February ? Really ?
Does it seem to anyone else that Prodos is now going to make us wait even longer until the Wave 3 stuff catches up with the first two waves before they ship anything in the US?
Another odd detail. People are receiving the wave 2 figures in baggies and not the retail packaging. Odd considering we've always been told that releases were on hold because everything had to have packaging that was approved per Fox...
"We haven't heard nothing from 81 backers that have not activated their pledge managers yet."
That's what happens when you have stretch goals unlocked by backer numbers, lots of minimum pledges with no intension of pledging more.
With some stretch goals being per backer rather than per pledge this must have also increased their shipping costs.
So yes, I'm one of those who's paid for two pledges as two backers and have still recieved nothing on either account.
The BS of waiting a month of Sundays for packaging approval only to not be sent that packaging anyway (presumably to save a couple of bucks) is contemptible if that is what is happening.
When / If this game arrives it's going to be checked for screw ups, then gather dust till I'm interested in the game (possibly when Prodos lose the license). In the meantime I'm gonna paint and play Starship Troopers instead. Nothing about the AVP experience has been fun.
If you are receiving any items that should be in retail packaging which would carry fox's licensing logo I suggest you send an email to fox's licensing department as I'm sure they won't be happy about it as it's probably a contractual requirement. Let's face it prodos definitely deserves a quality kicking over how they have acted so far, anything which draws greater scrutiny of this debacle from fox is worthwhile.
And for the record I still have nothing and received no shipping notification.
12/04/2015 5:00 P.M. Lawnside,NJ,United States Arrival Scan
Edit:
It's incredible just how fast this stuff can arrive to us. It left Poland 12/3 and it's 10 miles from my house on 12/4.
When they *actually* ship it. Iirc, there are a few a shipping notification sent month(s) ago nothing received backers in the thread in addition to all those folks that were promised they were shipped back in early spring.
I'll just requote this and leave it here since it's proof that Prodos made an offer of a free model to every single backer who has collected at a Con. We wouldn't want them "forgetting" about that would we?
Big Jim wrote: And from Jarek Ever on the AvP Facebook page...
"Hi all, a quick announcement. As we have a large number of backers collecting the AvP + add-ons at Crisis, we decided to compensate your time and effort ( also pain in your arms after walking with 4+ Kg game whole day) with a free random miniature from our WZR or AvP ranges. It could be a trooper or hero, monster model or even a vehicle (retail value from 5 GBP to 65 GBP!) We will have some out of production model and prototypes as well do be drawn (priceless!) . If you have collected your wave 1 at any of the shows we have attended, you will also receive the random miniature with your 2nd Wave! - Let the Hunt Begins!"
I'll let you decide as to the level of PR chaos this will result in.
Hi there, as always with this stuff, we can't make everybody happy. However we had this question constantly coming back to us via emails "what I will get for my shipping cost I paid you if I collect the game at the show".
I believe it's not only us doing it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Giving free stuff to people that already have received something whilst sweet feth all for those that have received nothing. Great
Hi there, please read my comment above.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
crazy_cat wrote: So waht does 'In progress' mean compared to 'Awaiting' ?
Well I sent my letter before action 2 weeks ago to the 2 UK addresses I have, and it was signed for at the company registered address, but not at the address listed on their website. Today I have emailed it to Jarek and posted it in the closed AVP group - I will commence proceedings on the 14th December if I have had no satisfactory reply from them. If anyone really wants to read 2 pages of legal waflle, it's spoilered.
Spoiler:
Letter before small claims court claim
<Redacted>
<Redacted>
<Redacted>
<Redacted>
Prodos Games Ltd
Unit 1 Victoria Business Centre,
Neilston Street,
Leamington Spa,
Warwickshire, CV31 2AZ
23rd November 2015
Dear Sir/ Madam
Reference: Aliens vs Predator Kickstarter Non-Delivery
Due to Prodos Games Ltd’s failure to deliver the goods ordered via the Kickstarter project and subsequent extra purchases via the Pledge Manager, and the company’s repeated refusal to issue refunds, it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.
In November 2013, Prodos Games Ltd (hereafter “Prodos” or “the Company”) ran a funding campaign via the Kickstarter website (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/alien-vs-predator-the-miniatures-game) to raise funding to develop and produce a board game and range of miniatures set in the Aliens vs Predator IP universe. I (Richard Davies – also using the online name of richred_uk) pledged £155.00 to support this project, in return for which I would be sent various products to be produced by Prodos. Payment of this amount was debited to my credit card on 29th November 2013 via Amazon payments/ the Kickstarter platform, to be forwarded to Prodos less relevant fees. A further payment of £28.00 to pay for extra purchases of goods made via the “Pledge Manager” process was made by Paypal on 3rd May 2014. The total that I have spent is therefore £183.00.
Prodos have not delivered any part of the physical goods that I contracted to receive in exchange for these payments to me at the date of this letter. Prodos have repeatedly communicated via their corporate Facebook pages (https://www.facebook.com/groups/829340957162333/&https://www.facebook.com/Alien-vs-Predator-The-Miniatures-Game-1430433530510297/?ref=br_rs ) that they will not issue refunds to backers of the project.
The initial game was produced and sent to general retail release (available to purchase from Prodos directly and via various retail partners) at the end of June 2015. Further additional products have also been released to public retail as of the 5th November 2015 and a further selection of products has been announced for release on the 5th December 2015.
The company has made numerous statements that have proved to be false in terms of the delivery of the products, and have stated publicly that they used funds raised on the Aliens vs Predator project to deliver on outstanding goods from a previous project.
It is my position that the ongoing delay for Prodos to deliver my goods, the use of funds on an unrelated project and numerous false statements have put Prodos in breach of their contract with me.
From you I am claiming £183.00 plus any court fees, expenses or collection fees associated with this action. I do not intend to claim interest from the dates of my payments until now, but will apply for statutory interest from the date of judgement on any awards. I have calculated this sum as the total of the payments I have made to Prodos Games as detailed above.
Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:
E-mail communications receipting the payments made
Screenshots of Prodos’ “Pledge Manager” ordering system, detailing my purchases
Screenshots of online communications made by employees of Prodos Games Ltd
Screenshots of various retail websites listing the goods for retail
In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:
Records of my orders from Prodos Games for these goods
Records of any attempts to deliver these goods to me
Detailed Project records showing how monies from the funding campaign have been spent
A documented list of deliveries received Kickstarter backers by territory against a list of those outstanding in order to establish whether good faith efforts are being made by the company to fulfil outstanding obligations
Evidence that the outstanding obligations to Kickstarter backers are properly reflected in the company accounts
I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts. I would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.
In closing, I would draw your attention to section II (4) of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.
I look forward to hearing from you by the 14th December 2015.
Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.
This letter has also been mailed to: Prodos Games Ltd, Warwick Business Centre, Hawkes Drive, Warwick, CV34 6LX – showing as the company’s registered address.
Yours faithfully,
Good for you, richred. As posted above, I suspect that you'll likely be either bumped up completely to the top of the actual one backer per week shipping list or right to the bottom.. hopefully the former.
I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
Forlorn wrote: I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
Huh.. I got everything barring the young bloods, resin face huggers and objective markers. Feels like they botched yours. Glad you finally got SOMETHING though lol
Forlorn wrote: I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
Huh.. I got everything barring the young bloods, resin face huggers and objective markers. Feels like they botched yours. Glad you finally got SOMETHING though lol
Exactly. I'm disappointed but at least something arrived. I've emailed them about the order. Hoping my luck holds.
Forlorn wrote: I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
Huh.. I got everything barring the young bloods, resin face huggers and objective markers. Feels like they botched yours. Glad you finally got SOMETHING though lol
Exactly. I'm disappointed but at least something arrived. I've emailed them about the order. Hoping my luck holds.
Just confirming, your stuff came directly from Prodos, and was not part of the load of stuff sent to that anonymous distributor most US backers (including myself) are waiting on, right?
Forlorn wrote: I have gone through the contents of my order that arrived. I received the KS version of the box sets. It looks like none of the stretch goal freebies other than the KS exclusive Berserker were sent. Only the addon items that I paid for were included. As it stands I am missing 4 100k stretch goal freebies. So in total I am missing 4x Alien Warriors and 2X Hellhounds (2 models) and 2X Predalien. It's odd these weren't included.
Huh.. I got everything barring the young bloods, resin face huggers and objective markers. Feels like they botched yours. Glad you finally got SOMETHING though lol
Exactly. I'm disappointed but at least something arrived. I've emailed them about the order. Hoping my luck holds.
Just confirming, your stuff came directly from Prodos, and was not part of the load of stuff sent to that anonymous distributor most US backers (including myself) are waiting on, right?
That is correct. Like others I received a Nov 2nd shipping email with no tracking information. Just an itemized list of contents being shipped. Nothing ever arrived. Then on Dec 3rd I received a PM on Facebook messenger from Jarek. All it said was the shipping number and ups. It came directly from Poland. It was in the US, 10 miles from my house in 1 day. 4 days in total due to the weekend.
I was able to track the progress of the package through the UPS website.
It is my belief there is no container. And they have waited to ship both "Wave 1" and "Wave 2" together, as was my case. I am grateful to have received anything at all, but disappointed it wasn't all the approved items including freebies.
It's almost like a tease.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh. In addition I received a business card with a coupon code for 25% off to their store as well as a letter from Jarek. Nothing personal, but a letter of thanks. I can post if you're interested in its contents.
Just thought I'd add a comment here, not being a backer I picked up a copy from an online store here in the uk, love the models although still sat in the box but here's the but after watching the way you guys have been treated there's no way on the earth that prodos will be getting any more future custom from me be it through themselves or an independent store.
Yep, to be fair, I'm totally burnt by this whole shambles and only blame Prodos for gross mismanagement of the entire process. Having said that, they produce beautiful miniatures and I have seen them in the flesh (or resin...) and would buy more if any were to take my fancy. I've also had the pleasure to speak with Jarek and he's just your average gamer who happened to have a dream but little to no business acumen - or was badly advised along the way by his business partners... I have no doubt that he once had a noble dream for AvP, but it's sure headed south since those days hasn't it...
BTW, I'm still waiting for my pledge plus add-ons...
Its like picking a wound, there's this temptation to check my pledge manager again. I know what I'll find, it'll be mysteriously open again, some detail will have changed, I'll fix it, close it, get a conformation including all the correct details...why do I bother, its becoming clear my order will not be shipping until everything is complete
I emailed Prodos - replied to my Pledge Manager receipt and copied Michal Pawlaczyk - and stated that my name and address where correct. Asked, politely, when I'd receive a shipping notification. Kept the email very polite as thought it would be a good way to start... before I launched into a tirade. But blow me, within minutes Michal responded and said that my pledge would be packed the next day and posted... I now have my 'pledge being partially sent' email in my inbox...
So, my advice to you all still waiting is to send your Pledge Manager receipt to them and ask for a status update on delivery... Can't hurt...
richred_uk wrote: Well I sent my letter before action 2 weeks ago to the 2 UK addresses I have, and it was signed for at the company registered address, but not at the address listed on their website. Today I have emailed it to Jarek and posted it in the closed AVP group - I will commence proceedings on the 14th December if I have had no satisfactory reply from them. If anyone really wants to read 2 pages of legal waflle, it's spoilered.
Spoiler:
Letter before small claims court claim
<Redacted>
<Redacted>
<Redacted>
<Redacted>
Prodos Games Ltd
Unit 1 Victoria Business Centre,
Neilston Street,
Leamington Spa,
Warwickshire, CV31 2AZ
23rd November 2015
Dear Sir/ Madam
Reference: Aliens vs Predator Kickstarter Non-Delivery
Due to Prodos Games Ltd’s failure to deliver the goods ordered via the Kickstarter project and subsequent extra purchases via the Pledge Manager, and the company’s repeated refusal to issue refunds, it is apparent that court action may be necessary, I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.
In November 2013, Prodos Games Ltd (hereafter “Prodos” or “the Company”) ran a funding campaign via the Kickstarter website (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/alien-vs-predator-the-miniatures-game) to raise funding to develop and produce a board game and range of miniatures set in the Aliens vs Predator IP universe. I (Richard Davies – also using the online name of richred_uk) pledged £155.00 to support this project, in return for which I would be sent various products to be produced by Prodos. Payment of this amount was debited to my credit card on 29th November 2013 via Amazon payments/ the Kickstarter platform, to be forwarded to Prodos less relevant fees. A further payment of £28.00 to pay for extra purchases of goods made via the “Pledge Manager” process was made by Paypal on 3rd May 2014. The total that I have spent is therefore £183.00.
Prodos have not delivered any part of the physical goods that I contracted to receive in exchange for these payments to me at the date of this letter. Prodos have repeatedly communicated via their corporate Facebook pages (https://www.facebook.com/groups/829340957162333/&https://www.facebook.com/Alien-vs-Predator-The-Miniatures-Game-1430433530510297/?ref=br_rs ) that they will not issue refunds to backers of the project.
The initial game was produced and sent to general retail release (available to purchase from Prodos directly and via various retail partners) at the end of June 2015. Further additional products have also been released to public retail as of the 5th November 2015 and a further selection of products has been announced for release on the 5th December 2015.
The company has made numerous statements that have proved to be false in terms of the delivery of the products, and have stated publicly that they used funds raised on the Aliens vs Predator project to deliver on outstanding goods from a previous project.
It is my position that the ongoing delay for Prodos to deliver my goods, the use of funds on an unrelated project and numerous false statements have put Prodos in breach of their contract with me.
From you I am claiming £183.00 plus any court fees, expenses or collection fees associated with this action. I do not intend to claim interest from the dates of my payments until now, but will apply for statutory interest from the date of judgement on any awards. I have calculated this sum as the total of the payments I have made to Prodos Games as detailed above.
Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:
E-mail communications receipting the payments made
Screenshots of Prodos’ “Pledge Manager” ordering system, detailing my purchases
Screenshots of online communications made by employees of Prodos Games Ltd
Screenshots of various retail websites listing the goods for retail
In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:
Records of my orders from Prodos Games for these goods
Records of any attempts to deliver these goods to me
Detailed Project records showing how monies from the funding campaign have been spent
A documented list of deliveries received Kickstarter backers by territory against a list of those outstanding in order to establish whether good faith efforts are being made by the company to fulfil outstanding obligations
Evidence that the outstanding obligations to Kickstarter backers are properly reflected in the company accounts
I can confirm that I would be agreeable to mediation and would consider any other system of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) in order to avoid the need for this matter to be resolved by the courts. I would invite you to put forward any proposals in this regard.
In closing, I would draw your attention to section II (4) of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.
I look forward to hearing from you by the 14th December 2015.
Should I not receive a response to my letter within this time frame then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.
This letter has also been mailed to: Prodos Games Ltd, Warwick Business Centre, Hawkes Drive, Warwick, CV34 6LX – showing as the company’s registered address.
Yours faithfully,
Richard Davies
Just to update - I had this email exchange with Jarek this week I first emailed him the Letter Before action on the 7th Dec as well as posting it in the Facebook group:
9th Dec Me to Jarek "Dear Sir/ Madam
re-send to ensure that you have received these letters and a reminder that the deadline to reply is before the 14th December. If I have heard nothing from you by this point I will issue proceedings with no further notice. I would prefer to close this matter without going to court but I am perfectly prepared to do so if no response is forthcoming.
Yours respectfully
Richard Davies (copies of the letters attached again)"
9th Dec - Jarek to me "Hi there, thanks for your mail.
In regards to fulfilling KS, as per our weekly updates, we are aiming to have all shipped our by end of Jan.
We are shipping parcels in random order.
Thanks"
9th Dec Me to Jarek "Dear Jarek
I'm sorry to say, but this is not an acceptable reply to prevent me from issuing proceedings - I am afraid that I no longer believe your assertions of a date that shipments will be completed by due to the numerous times that similar assertions have proven to be false. With 'Wave 3' items still to be approved, and a 2 week Christmas shut down, I do not believe that there is any chance that all remaining items will be with all backers by the end of January.
Unless there is some form of binding agreement as to a delivery date with cast iron guarantees should it be breached, or a refund in full, then I will be taking things to the courts as I believe that Prodos is already in breach of contract.
I do thank you for the reply, and would ask you to think again about how to progress.
Yours sincerely
Richard Davies "
Since then, radio silence. I guess I will be spending the weekend filling out some claims forms and being in a position to submit them on Monday.
BrookM wrote: Prodos has been aggressively trying to directly contact several FLGS in the Netherlands for some time now getting them to sell AVP, I do wonder why.
Maybe they have too many starter set copies occupying space in the warehouse? If only there was something (they're obligated) to do about it...
Further update - on Friday (I'm sure coincidentally ), just after posting in the AvP group that my Letter before Action didn't get me any faster delivery, I received a shipping notification for the following items:
"Free items:
A Royal Guard x1 1, KS P Berserker 1, AVP Game (Box) 1,
Addons:
Predator ship (Extra tiles) 1, P Predator Hellhounds x2 1, A Queen x1 1, A Predalien x1 1, Weyland-Yutani Commandos 2, M Power Loader x1 1,"
This should leave me outstanding:
Facehuggers x7( 1 )
Picked 100k stretch item/s:
A Warrior x5
Picked 155k stretch item/s:
M Sentry guns x2
Picked 310k stretch item/s:
A Eggs (Obj. Marker) x4
M Colonial Marines x5 (Add-on)( 1 )
P Cloaked Berserker x1( 1 )
P Cloaked Pred x1 (Spear)( 1 )
M Sergeant x1( 1 )
I will be treating this as enough to put my legal steps on hold - bearing in mind shipping delays at this time of year, I'm happy to wait until the New Year before I would start it up again if nothing arrives. If I do not see this parcel/ tracking number proof it was lost by then, it will start up again - if they mess around further with the outstanding items I will re-consider whether I'd run up the court fees for that value of stuff, but I'm happy enough that the legal threats do seem to have got some action out of Prodos (I mean I'm happy that I just happened to be in this week's lucky 127 people).
Funnily enough I'm not in that lucky 127, I'm guessing it's because my pledge manager hasn't been closed or I haven't filled it in correctly, and not because shipping more than one wave to me is expensive...
Apologies for having to set-up a new account for this but there was a rather... heated, argument that occured on the AVP-Wargamer group yesterday.
I'm of the opinion that if Prodos cannot/will not give us any information at this point then it perhaps Fox will, to that end I have sent an email and given others the details to do so.
This basically resulted in Jarek threatening to give my personal details out to backers who had not received their product if Fox took the licence from Prodos.
I've since been banned from that group and the threads have been deleted (and much of it has been reported to Facebook if I'm honest) but It has come to my attention that many people there have the opinion that I have been 'harrassing' Jarek and insulting him for a long time (and bad-mouthing me for doing so when I am unable to respond) Therefore I thought it only fair I post up the entirety of the PM conversation between us so people can make up their own minds.
Andy Hawkes
Is there any particular reason why all of the updates and comments have been deleted from the official AvP group?
And why are Prodos wasting time and resources on freebies for retailers that should be directed towards fulfilling previous obligations towards AvP backers?
I do apologise for messaging you direct but you do not seem to want to reply otherwise to these concerns
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:19pm
Jarek Ever
I own you no explanation
Non of your damn business
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:21pm
Andy Hawkes
Seeing as you have my money for the kickstarter I'd dispute that somewhat
Just stop lying to people Jarek. Doesn't matter how bad the truth of the situation is it can't be worse than all the different stories we keep getting on a week by week basis
I've asked politely for comments on many occasions - your response is always to go straight on the defensive in an aggressive manner.
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:25pm
Jarek Ever
You are not polite at all and questioning stuff like this is on of order ... Maybe question that we have a toilet paper as well
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:28pm
Andy Hawkes
Everything i've stated has been in a professional and business like manner, the same could not be said of yourself unfortunately.
And you're comparing wildly different things. Necessities are just that, and yes, toilet roll is one of those.
Spending resources on freebies when claiming to us all the company is cash-strapped and can't afford shipping however is completely different.
Also you've not said anything on the subject of the deleted posts.
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:29pm
Jarek Ever
Can you please stop harassing me ?
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:30pm
Andy Hawkes
I'm asking questions Jarek, on social media. Under no definition of harassment would you find this is covered by that.
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:30pm
Jarek Ever
You are harrying me now by sending PM leave me alone
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:32pm
Andy Hawkes
Once again, that isn't harassment.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/stalking_and_harassment/#a02a I'm merely requesting information on a public forum. All you need to do is provide some kind of answer
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:34pm
Jarek Ever
No I don't have to, you may asks , but you have me statements about me , personally me Jarolie?? That is harassing , delete this or I'll take actions
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:35pm
Andy Hawkes
I'm sorry. Is that a threat Jarek?
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:36pm
Jarek Ever
Am I calling you a lier ? You have made a public statement , that is harassing under the definition you just sent me , as I said this is gone or I'll report it
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:38pm
Andy Hawkes
I'll offer a counter proposal. Renew the updates on the group (the comments dont need to be present). Give an official response explaining what is going on and I will remove any comments you want.
Jarek Ever
12/13, 1:41pm
Jarek Ever
What? You have called me a lier, you are harassing me and now you demand something for me , are you serious ? Stop sending me pm and delete this now.
Andy Hawkes
12/13, 1:42pm
Andy Hawkes
A proposal, not a demand. They are different things. I'll not delete anything I'm afraid.
You and me both Morikun. If he conducts all business communications the way he speaks to us it's no wonder they have had problems with Fox approving things.
Personnally I was very lucky to get my boxes and other stuffs by a friend of mine who gone to Crisis (Belgium)...
But when I see that after too much time, many backers don't get even their boxes, it sucks a lot !!
Jarek forgot my predalien and pred tiles... But I was notified that all were delivered... After several MP to michal/jarek... Nothing but a big silence... Really marvellous indeed !
I fear in response to the post above that BOLS will report tomorrow a rumor that Prodos had to stop work on fulfilling their AVP kickstarter obligations due to an ongoing lack of of toilet paper.
warboss wrote: I fear in response to the post above that BOLS will report tomorrow a rumor that Prodos had to stop work on fulfilling their AVP kickstarter obligations due to an ongoing lack of of toilet paper.
And can we get explanations about Jarek has stopped talking to us on Dakka Dakka ? XD
Serviteur,
Morikun
Hi there, to be hones I had no time.
As per Andy's post the full story is that he called me openly a lair, that was spotted by my son, I asked him to stop harass me as it was clearly affecting my family now.
And can we get explanations about Jarek has stopped talking to us on Dakka Dakka ? XD
Serviteur,
Morikun
Hi there, to be hones I had no time.
As per Andy's post the full story is that he called me openly a lair, that was spotted by my son, I asked him to stop harass me as it was clearly affecting my family now.
To be fair, we can list examples where either yourself or another Prodos employee has lied to us backers. Don't like being called a liar? Don't lie.
That there being the crux of the argument.
Remember kids, it's not slander when it's true..
There are indeed lies in the latest post that state Jarek has been threatened. That's simply not true. In fact, the only threat made was by Jarek himself when he threatened to give my details to backers and blame me for the whole project failing.
And can we get explanations about Jarek has stopped talking to us on Dakka Dakka ? XD
Serviteur,
Morikun
Hi there, to be hones I had no time.
As per Andy's post the full story is that he called me openly a lair, that was spotted by my son, I asked him to stop harass me as it was clearly affecting my family now.
To be fair, we can list examples where either yourself or another Prodos employee has lied to us backers. Don't like being called a liar? Don't lie.
To personal FB account? To my family? no, I don;t thinks so, he called my a liar on something not AvP related and then moved to other stuff.
As for Me personal lied, sorry we have been giving as much info as possible. We have been providing updates with the best knowledge we had, for instance if we have been assured that approval will be in a week time! (yay superb lets get peoples excited as well) and it came after 3 months... then how much of that is our lie?
Our fault was that we are too excited about this project and wanted to share our excitement with backers. It took us a long time to understand that we need to have it on paper before we say anything otherwise our words are twisted around and we look like a bunch of lairs.
Jesus., if this project was independent to other company we would have it 1,5 year ago out. But is not, and we play the game as we have been told to play.
As per Andy's post the full story is that he called me openly a lair, that was spotted by my son, I asked him to stop harass me as it was clearly affecting my family now.
I can understand, when family is in the buiseness they can take bad things, so i understand you and it's not good at all. Sorry for you son.
In same time, because you lie all times, my son too is very sad, he is waiting his box for play since many months now. He saw other people with the box, he saw last day in a shop a box.
So what can i say to him........My son spotted the game many times and he is so sad, and christmas is coming, i promise to him for christmas. I dont have money for buy another box.
So jarek we are father you and me, our son are sad, because of you. Not of us. Think that. Now i wait apologies for my son from you.
Hi there, we are working towards Jan/ end of Feb as long as we get an approval on remaining items on time (full KS)
As for shipping wave 2 we are doing it on daily basis (USA as well).
It's only estimated (complete fulfilment) , can't promise anything until we got it confirmed.
My wife and I fought over the money I spent on kickstarters that don't deliver and she's not my wife anymore, so now I can't play AvP with my kid. Not that I actually have my AvP.
Thanks Jarek, you want to make out you've been hard done by, you want sympathies because your son saw someone call you a liar? You put us all in this position.
Hi there, we are working towards Jan/ end of Feb as long as we get an approval on remaining items on time (full KS)
As for shipping wave 2 we are doing it on daily basis (USA as well).
It's only estimated (complete fulfilment) , can't promise anything until we got it confirmed.
Ok great
So as I haven't had my Wave 1 yet, I should expect my Wave 1 and Wave 2 to arrive together, in a single package/delivery?
Hi there, we are working towards Jan/ end of Feb as long as we get an approval on remaining items on time (full KS)
As for shipping wave 2 we are doing it on daily basis (USA as well).
It's only estimated (complete fulfilment) , can't promise anything until we got it confirmed.
Ok great
So as I haven't had my Wave 1 yet, I should expect my Wave 1 and Wave 2 to arrive together, in a single package/delivery?
Hi there, we are working towards Jan/ end of Feb as long as we get an approval on remaining items on time (full KS)
As for shipping wave 2 we are doing it on daily basis (USA as well).
It's only estimated (complete fulfilment) , can't promise anything until we got it confirmed.
Ok great
So as I haven't had my Wave 1 yet, I should expect my Wave 1 and Wave 2 to arrive together, in a single package/delivery?
Again Jarek, if you don't want your son to know you are a liar, don't lie.
Seems pretty easy. Yet you've failed to do it.
Making excuses and whining like a 3 year old after the fact doesn't garner any sympathy either. Man the feth up, fix your mistakes, and decide to be honest from here on out. You'll still have lost a lot of customers (for very good reason) but then maybe your kid can grow up with an honest father from here on out.
CptJake wrote: Again Jarek, if you don't want your son to know you are a liar, don't lie.
Seems pretty easy. Yet you've failed to do it.
Making excuses and whining like a 3 year old after the fact doesn't garner any sympathy either. Man the feth up, fix your mistakes, and decide to be honest from here on out. You'll still have lost a lot of customers (for very good reason) but then maybe your kid can grow up with an honest father from here on out.
Hello Jarek, as you come back, can you at least answer me about my predalien and pred tiles you forgot to give to my friend at Crisis... that you notified me it was delivered ?
I would be a little grateful indeed if you could tell me something here as you didn't answered me (you or Michal indeed)
warboss wrote: Wouldn't it not be libel in this case? *ducks fellow grammar nazis who notice the double negative*
Yes - postings on the internet are treated as libel rather than slander as they have a permanence.
I knew someone would do it ;-). Slander is the better known term though (even though it isnt officially correct in this instance)and I thought I'd keep things as simple as possible for Prodos, apparently they need that (given their complete and utter lack of understanding of the term 'harassment'.) .
I can categorically say I have never called anyone a 'lair' as well.
;-)
The fact is that outright lies have been told, it can be dressed up however. The latest 'official statement' contains at least one - no-one threatened you Jarek, you issued the threats.
And again, when you use your personal account for business expect people to contact your personal account. It's unfortunate your son saw it but at the end of the day as others have said, the best way to not be called a liar is simply not to be one.
Morikun wrote: Hello Jarek, as you come back, can you at least answer me about my predalien and pred tiles you forgot to give to my friend at Crisis... that you notified me it was delivered ?
I would be a little grateful indeed if you could tell me something here as you didn't answered me (you or Michal indeed)
Serviteur,
Morikun
Hi there, Yes, we have this noted in 3 places : Redmine ticket is created, physically on your order form, your email is printed out and sits with packing team. We are aware, no worries
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PomWallaby wrote: From what I hear the rules could be used as toilet paper.
Automatically Appended Next Post: (I wouldn't know from experience since Prodos haven't sent me any)
Hi there, the rules are available for free on our website prodosgames.com.
Hi there, Yes, we have this noted in 3 places : Redmine ticket is created, physically on your order form, your email is printed out and sits with packing team. We are aware, no worries
Thank you very much, Jarek, for your answer !
Can I expect something before Christmas or late in January ?
warboss wrote: Wouldn't it not be libel in this case? *ducks fellow grammar nazis who notice the double negative*
...
Mr. Andy maybe you should post up full conversation, including the topic of the post I commented to?
My answer was directed to you when you post up a link to FOX and asked others to join "lets call fox" train, on purpose trying to damage Prodos... What you haven't told others is that you had your wave 1 and 2 and if we get, for instance, affected by your actions, let's say Fox will pull the plug, then the only affected people are other backers that still waiting for it, not your self, a bit selfish right? I am under impression that you have been just waiting to get your pledge to start this one.
I think other people were trying to explain you this one in the same topic, but you have not been interested in what they are saying.
Also, you are twisting the facts here, 1st off all I asked you to stop harassing me via PM on Sunday afternoon, and stop calling me a liar, but you keep demanding an answer regarding something not related to AvP anyway in the first place, after I blocked you, you continued harassment and you had my account reported? the this idiotic Fox post went up? Now you are posting some random screen shot taken out of full conversation? LOL
Regardless, I think I am too old for this and we are too busy at this stage.
Hi there, Yes, we have this noted in 3 places : Redmine ticket is created, physically on your order form, your email is printed out and sits with packing team. We are aware, no worries
Thank you very much, Jarek, for your answer !
Can I expect something before Christmas or late in January ?
Serviteur,
Morikun
Can't promises anything, however I think we have to send you anyway some sample miniatures from our customers for review ?
So I don't see any reason why we could not add the missing items to the same parcel (please don't take this as favouritism...).
Mr. Andy maybe you should post up full conversation, including the topic of the post I commented to?
My answer was directed to you when you post up a link to FOX and asked others to join "lets call fox" train, on purpose trying to damage Prodos... What you haven't told others is that you had your wave 1 and 2 and if we get, for instance, affected by your actions, let's say Fox will pull the plug, then the only affected people are other backers that still waiting for it, not your self, a bit selfish right? I am under impression that you have been just waiting to get your pledge to start this one.
I think other people were trying to explain you this one in the same topic, but you have not been interested in what they are saying.
Also, you are twisting the facts here, 1st off all I asked you to stop harassing me via PM on Sunday afternoon, and stop calling me a liar, but you keep demanding an answer regarding something not related to AvP anyway in the first place, after I blocked you, you continued harassment and you had my account reported? the this idiotic Fox post went up? Now you are posting some random screen shot taken out of full conversation? LOL
Regardless, I think I am too old for this and we are too busy at this stage.
Well I would but that was deleted - majority of it was people trying to prove to you how threatening to release personal information to incite people to violent acts is illegal (criminal) on two counts however. I can however happily put up the wording of the suggestion to contact Fox for information though:
Ladies, gentlemen and Robots.
I'm sure many of us are rather annoyed with the way we've been treated by Prodos with the AvP kickstarter, and with information increasingly difficult to come by (and often then found to be different when the next update comes about). I propose that we may have another solution.
It's not too hard to imagine that this kind of negative feeling towards the Board Game will impact on the Alien Vs Predator franchise in its entirety. Therefore if enough people contact them perhaps they can apply more pressure to Prodos? The link for Fox UK is below.
Any thoughts from people?
You don't actually understand harassment Jarek, the fact that you repeatedly replied prevents it from being harassment. Also the fact that you blocked me and then proceeded to unblock me so that you could threaten to release my personal information as a threat (while you've been attempting to cite legalities go check up on that one) isn't going to help that case any.
Further I have addressed all accusations you have levelled at me - your response? Ban me from any groups whereby I can defend myself.
I've also been completely clear on several occasions that I have received wave 1 and 2 - once again, in areas that you have conveniently deleted, you know this as you have commented on them yourself (and actually sent me a tracking number via PM due to this)
So yes, after again your baseless accusations I think it safe to say that you are again lying to try to cover your tracks.
But hey, how about I inform everyone who purchased extras from you outside the kickstarter to investigate Distance Selling Regulations, as you've not yet delivered a product that was effectively on pre-order (not ordered through kickstarter) you'd be obliged to refund that.
In fact I believe part of my order was purchased afterwards through paypal - I'd like that refunded under self same regulations - that was nothing to do with kickstarter and ran through your 'personal' pledge manager.
Can't promises anything, however I think we have to send you anyway some sample miniatures from our customers for review ?
So I don't see any reason why we could not add the missing items to the same parcel (please don't take this as favouritism...).
I understand you. To be absolutely honest, I've already received from you all the sample miniatures announced by your customer and I already started my reviews.
But If there is more samples left, please, feel free to send my predalien + pred tiles with it.
Don't worry I don't take this as favouristism but I would thought that sending 1 predalien mini + pred tiles would cost you pretty less than AVP boxes.
CURNOW wrote: Hang on people are getting free sample minis ?
It's not favouritism, they are just more important than us, we don't deserve anything at all. I guess because we didn't throw Morikun level hissy fits over every little thing. Nice painted miniatures though.
CURNOW wrote: Hang on people are getting free sample minis ?
It's not favouritism, they are just more important than us, we don't deserve anything at all. I guess because we didn't throw Morikun level hissy fits over every little thing. Nice painted miniatures though.
No. Don't think that please.
To be clear, we speak about free samples about a game absolutely different from AVP : it's Age of Tyrants by John Robertson and his Dream Team.
They are customers of Prodos are preparing their own game and Prodos is molding for them. I work with John Robertson as volunteer (you can see the result in the AoT Topic and in my Temple) and I have a double-cap :
- me as early backer of Prodos and like you, I'm still waiting for my stuff (but I confess I was very lucky to get my stuffs from Prodos BEFORE being touched by John Robertson, having some friends of mine who picked my AVP stuffs at Crisis, Belgium for me) ;
- me as AoT volunteer and I was promised by John that Prodos would send me some samples of his game.
That's all. No lies, no hidden things.
Please, feel free to ask John Robertson if you need to;
I hope things are absolutely clear (it is so for me).
Come on guys! Do we really need to fight amongst ourselves? Who does that serve? I know we are all frustrated with the way things are progressing, I myself am very frustrated, but I really don't see how we benefit by slamming other backers. There have been a few vocal backers that were able to get their stuff quicker by complaining loudly (and apparently to the right people), a few of whom have posted about that success here. I don't blame them, I blame those that capitulated to them. Most of my life I have watched this type of behaviour be rewarded and yet have always felt that it was entitled behaviour. I don't want to be treated better than any other backer, I don't feel I should have to raise a gak storm to get what I want.. I want all backers to get their stuff. I want clear and reliable and honest information. I want a community where we can be happy for each backer that gets thier pledges, without people making attacks / insulting those that got theirs first. If you have to be upset with someone, look not to the person who makes the most noise, but to the one that rewards them. JMHO.
I don't begrudge any KS backer who got their stuff. If threats or loud public complaining work, so be it.
I put the blame square on Prodos' shoulders for putting us backers in the position where we have to engage in that behavior just to get what we paid for.
Good for all the backers who have time/energy to piss off/scare Prodos enough that they get their stuff. I just don't have it in me at this point.
My policy is to do what every archetypal Englishman does when faced with appallingly bad service : form an orderly queue whilst grumbling occasionally under my breath and internalising the rage in an unhealthy manner.
But sure, I guess I can't blame people for doing all they can to get their pledges. I will be pretty annoyed if they bring this whole poop-house down before I get anything though! >__>
Lets face it, if anything gets brought down it's due to the inadequacies of Prodos management.
If the company's plan is that reliant on people not asking questions of them then it's a pretty poor company plan
CURNOW wrote: Hang on people are getting free sample minis ?
I would suggest to re-ready my post about what we are sending to whom... the Samples miniatures I mentioned are not AvP related...
Nowhere in your previous posts did you state that the free sample minis weren't avp ones and the fact we are in a avp topic one could safely assume that you ment avp ones its also not the first time that free promo samples and copies of the game to reviews has been mentioned.
Maybe you can answer me a question on here as you dont answer emails as my pledge doesn't include a copy of the game its just minis am i in the queue as normal or am i at the back of it due to you getting box games out first ?
Promotional products aren't free to produce or distribute. Whilst I understand spending some resources to promote Prodos' range. What I do struggle with is the logic of leaving so many backers with nothing causing significant damage to their reputation. I can't see why the shops down the road have multiple "kickstarter exclusive" boxes sat on shelves and I'm left waiting on "weekly" updates which aren't very weekly.
I've said before, I'd possibly have ordered more, had I a copy of the game. In the meantime, I've seen copies of the game sell for as little as £40.
(My comment of using the rules as toilet paper was only in jest. I don't intend on using the rules, I don't think they were play tested enough but eventually there may be a fix. I laughed at the suggestion of printing them out, envisaging printing them out on some luxuriously soft and absorbent toilet paper)
I don't want to see Prodos fail, I'm a backer because I wanted them and the AVP range to do well. But months down the line, it's still the familiar faces here when this topic could have been full of win. I hope that the lastest estimate is accurate, but I'm prepared for disappointment.
"I've seen copies of the game sell for as little as £40. "
Ouch. That's painful to see. When I saw the chance to back this after the KS, I really thought I was helping to support the range. I even went on to order extras later on. But both actions were a complete mistake, and I could have just waited to get it cheaper in the shops.
Since I 've not received any e-mails from Prodos, I checked my pledge manager again. Still at awaiting. Awaiting the fall of civilisation and the end of mankind at this rate. As the last light flickers, an e-mail will appear from Prodos...
...telling me that they've opened the pledge managers again, on the off chance some of the mutant zombies that have replaced mankind want to jump on board. Muppets.
Yep i can walk 20ft across the road to my flgs and pick up everything thats in my pledge that im still waiting for off the shelf for less than i paid on the kickstarter ok we got some freebies chucked in but i would of rather of spent the extra £50 or so and buy those bits now and had the money in my account for the last 2yrs .
I've seen loads of great new kickstarers complete since this one started and i know that most have issues but this one is starting to be one of the worse.
Regardless, I think I am too old for this and we are too busy at this stage.
The typical answer of someone who knows they are in the wrong yet are too much of a coward to admit it while ignoring half of the accusations put towards you.
You didn't answer me so, you complain about tour child because he is broken, but mine it's not important he can be broken but, only you is important.
The problem jarek is, you cannot give apologiz to my son, but if you had finish the AVP KS at time,
YOUR SON HAD NEVER READ FB, IF YOU HAD FINISH KSAT TIME !!!!!!!!!!
And your son is too young for read...............Lies again
I think you are getting really confused here.
If you have an issue with AvP please direct your anger towards Prodos Games not my person , that's my issue.
If I am not happy with a company I make a complaint to the company not to their employees and I would not attack any of its employees or make it really personal with any one from the company.
Let me give you an example, you make miniature videos, if I wouldn't like I would make a comment about Video not his creator or his family and I would not keep sending you Personal messages demanding to change something ,answers or call you a liar....
As for my son he is 14y old in 1 week time, knows 2 languages fluently and I can assure you he can read.
You ARE the company for all intents and purposes, you are the public face. You are the spokes person, self anointed or not. You use the same account for personal and Prodos business.
Complaining to 'Prodos' as some entity is fething stupid, Prodos is (as you and other employees like to remind us) is small employee run company. 'Prodos' is not at fault, you and a small number of other people operating under the umbrella of Prodos are the fault.
As much as i hate to say it .... but this isn't helping anyone can we get back to not screaming at him so he may actually want to give us some news or updates ?
CptJake wrote: You ARE the company for all intents and purposes, you are the public face. You are the spokes person, self anointed or not. You use the same account for personal and Prodos business.
Complaining to 'Prodos' as some entity is fething stupid, Prodos is (as you and other employees like to remind us) is small employee run company. 'Prodos' is not at fault, you and a small number of other people operating under the umbrella of Prodos are the fault.
Actually Prodos is 32 employees for you information, many decisions have been made or agreed by several key peoples in Prodos that are still in or have gone some time ago...
I may be the face of the company at this stage, however I wont accept personal attacks nor an attack on my family, and in all fairness I don't expect you to understood this, if it easer for you this way they feel free to say whatever you want about my person but how this will change anything?
Really creative and intelligent approach to the situation - lets make a personal attack ... clap, clap, clap...
CptJake wrote: You ARE the company for all intents and purposes, you are the public face. You are the spokes person, self anointed or not. You use the same account for personal and Prodos business.
Complaining to 'Prodos' as some entity is fething stupid, Prodos is (as you and other employees like to remind us) is small employee run company. 'Prodos' is not at fault, you and a small number of other people operating under the umbrella of Prodos are the fault.
Actually Prodos is 32 employees for you information, many decisions have been made or agreed by several key peoples in Prodos that are still in or have gone some time ago...
I may be the face of the company at this stage, however I wont accept personal attacks nor an attack on my family, and in all fairness I don't expect you to understood this, if it easer for you this way they feel free to say whatever you want about my person but how this will change anything?
Really creative and intelligent approach to the situation - lets make a personal attack ... clap, clap, clap...
Except again, you are lying. The Jarek Ever account Facebook Account was used by you as a business account - the fact you used it to PM out UPS numbers proves as much. There were no 'attacks' on your family either, or personal attacks on you, you were accused of lying on your business used account. Simple.
You have been lying to backers, you've been caught in the act on several occasions, You made the threats, there has been evidence submitted to prove this and now you're attempting to act like you're the hurt victim in the whole AvP fiasco while still ignoring valid points made by people and not acknowledging everything you've been accused of.
You speak of creativity and intelligence yet have shown a complete lack of either. Man up, accept that you've done wrong, tell people the answers that they want to know. You want to 'reinvent the wheel?' Try actually being honest.
A public apology for threatening to reveal my personal details and blame me for AvP potentially failing wouldn't go amiss either, but I severely doubt I'll see that.
Yes my vote is for more real info on the status of this project please. What items still need approval, etc?
I don't really care to have to filter out or decipher drama that is being caused by personally provoking people, or "liar" accusations based on partial bits of information, or people standing on their morality soapboxes judging people and shaking their finger at them, or how good their grammar/spelling is, etc.
Ok i see, you cannot be honnest with you, so you couldn't be honest with people.
The best for you is now, silent and work for the stuff we paied, we gave to your company money so now make your job and stop complain about your family, we dont care.
Can you understand is for the future of company or not? Because many people stop KS with your name inside (prodos).
I just wanted to let you know that the AVP kickstarter 25% off codes are all on display when you check out of the Prodos Games shop. This means any visiting customer could use them. You may want to hide those codes.
Oh no! He better get right on that as soon as possible or a bunch of customers might rush through some orders to take advantage and overspend without thinking, and thus filling up the rewards shipping coffers. Tout suite.
A little less personal attacks, a little more dicussion please ? I haven't received my pledge either, and I'm not happy with it.
Still, this isn't PB, and Jarek's had the courage to walk into the "wolf's den".
I don't think attempts at communication should be shot down that viciously. You don't have to be nice and happy, but at least be polite folks.
Yes indeed, all I'm really interested in at this point is:
- When the remaining core game boxes are due to ship out (which last I heard was by the end of January).
- Whether these boxes are going to be the original 'Kickstarter' versions or the later 'Reduced Retail' versions.
- If the latter, how I can submit my request for the free Predator Ship tiles to be shipped with my package.
- What models have been approved for release and will be shipped by the end of January in the same package. I'm assuming at least everything currently being sold at retail, but there may be others.
I would be grateful if someone in the know, which includes Jarek, could give answers about these, since I have not officially received a single email or communication from Prodos since backing the project post-Kickstarter in September 2014. The less direct information I have, the more I end up having to trawl through arguments and hearsay to get an idea of what is going on.
Bioptic wrote: Yes indeed, all I'm really interested in at this point is:
- When the remaining core game boxes are due to ship out (which last I heard was by the end of January).
- Whether these boxes are going to be the original 'Kickstarter' versions or the later 'Reduced Retail' versions.
- If the latter, how I can submit my request for the free Predator Ship tiles to be shipped with my package.
- What models have been approved for release and will be shipped by the end of January in the same package. I'm assuming at least everything currently being sold at retail, but there may be others.
I would be grateful if someone in the know, which includes Jarek, could give answers about these, since I have not officially received a single email or communication from Prodos since backing the project post-Kickstarter in September 2014. The less direct information I have, the more I end up having to trawl through arguments and hearsay to get an idea of what is going on.
Hi there, thanks for questions :
- When the remaining core game boxes are due to ship out (which last I heard was by the end of January).
End of January is our estimation for Wave 2, we would like to make in the same Wave 3 as long as we will get approval on still-to-approved items.
- Whether these boxes are going to be the original 'Kickstarter' versions or the later 'Reduced Retail' versions.
One of the mistakes we have made was to release Retain (different to KS version. This decision was driven due to huge increase of manufacturing costs (30% up) to the cost we have been quoted in 2013 during KS.
Thus, manufacturer capacity was divided to produce the revised Retail and Kickstarter version at the same time, causing delays. However, all backers are receiving only KS version, we have made optionally available game in Spanish OR German (retail version) to backers, only if they are happy to receive such copy instead of KS one.
- If the latter, how I can submit my request for the free Predator Ship tiles to be shipped with my package.
Tiles are part of wave 2, thus if you have not received wave 1 as of yet it will come with the board game and all available add-ons.
- What models have been approved for release and will be shipped by the end of January in the same package. I'm assuming at least everything currently being sold at retail, but there may be others.
January approval is pending: https://gyazo.com/ba5839422624d71854da14afdf950d16 , Duch, Lin and Young Bloods are still to be approved for Jan: Sentry Guns, Predator Female just been reviewed and awaiting the final green light (samples tick off).
Thanks and sorry for lack of communication, please sing up to newsletter at shop.prodosgames.com for latest news regarding KS releases. Thanks.
- What models have been approved for release and will be shipped by the end of January in the same package. I'm assuming at least everything currently being sold at retail, but there may be others.
January approval is pending: https://gyazo.com/ba5839422624d71854da14afdf950d16 , Duch, Lin and Young Bloods are still to be approved for Jan: Sentry Guns, Predator Female just been reviewed and awaiting the final green light (samples tick off).
Thank you very much for the answer Jarek.
Does that means tokens (aliens/predators/CM ones) + cloaked predators + facehuggers are already and definitely approved by FOX ?
If yes, are they in the wave 2 too or will be shipped with Wave 3 ?
Bioptic wrote: Yes indeed, all I'm really interested in at this point is:
- When the remaining core game boxes are due to ship out (which last I heard was by the end of January).
- Whether these boxes are going to be the original 'Kickstarter' versions or the later 'Reduced Retail' versions.
- If the latter, how I can submit my request for the free Predator Ship tiles to be shipped with my package.
- What models have been approved for release and will be shipped by the end of January in the same package. I'm assuming at least everything currently being sold at retail, but there may be others.
I would be grateful if someone in the know, which includes Jarek, could give answers about these, since I have not officially received a single email or communication from Prodos since backing the project post-Kickstarter in September 2014. The less direct information I have, the more I end up having to trawl through arguments and hearsay to get an idea of what is going on.
Hi there, thanks for questions :
- When the remaining core game boxes are due to ship out (which last I heard was by the end of January).
End of January is our estimation for Wave 2, we would like to make in the same Wave 3 as long as we will get approval on still-to-approved items.
- Whether these boxes are going to be the original 'Kickstarter' versions or the later 'Reduced Retail' versions.
One of the mistakes we have made was to release Retain (different to KS version. This decision was driven due to huge increase of manufacturing costs (30% up) to the cost we have been quoted in 2013 during KS.
Thus, manufacturer capacity was divided to produce the revised Retail and Kickstarter version at the same time, causing delays. However, all backers are receiving only KS version, we have made optionally available game in Spanish OR German (retail version) to backers, only if they are happy to receive such copy instead of KS one.
- If the latter, how I can submit my request for the free Predator Ship tiles to be shipped with my package.
Tiles are part of wave 2, thus if you have not received wave 1 as of yet it will come with the board game and all available add-ons.
- What models have been approved for release and will be shipped by the end of January in the same package. I'm assuming at least everything currently being sold at retail, but there may be others.
January approval is pending: https://gyazo.com/ba5839422624d71854da14afdf950d16 , Duch, Lin and Young Bloods are still to be approved for Jan: Sentry Guns, Predator Female just been reviewed and awaiting the final green light (samples tick off).
Thanks and sorry for lack of communication, please sing up to newsletter at shop.prodosgames.com for latest news regarding KS releases. Thanks.
- When the remaining core game boxes are due to ship out (which last I heard was by the end of January).
End of January is our estimation for Wave 2, we would like to make in the same Wave 3 as long as we will get approval on still-to-approved items.
- Whether these boxes are going to be the original 'Kickstarter' versions or the later 'Reduced Retail' versions.
One of the mistakes we have made was to release Retain (different to KS version. This decision was driven due to huge increase of manufacturing costs (30% up) to the cost we have been quoted in 2013 during KS.
Thus, manufacturer capacity was divided to produce the revised Retail and Kickstarter version at the same time, causing delays. However, all backers are receiving only KS version, we have made optionally available game in Spanish OR German (retail version) to backers, only if they are happy to receive such copy instead of KS one.
- If the latter, how I can submit my request for the free Predator Ship tiles to be shipped with my package.
Tiles are part of wave 2, thus if you have not received wave 1 as of yet it will come with the board game and all available add-ons.
Well that's interesting. Mine was dispatched last week (got emailed a tracking number last weds) and it turned up on Monday. Haven't had a chance to look at it properly yet and go through the contents in detail, as I've had a busy week, but I'm almost certain the box is the "slimline" retail one. :/
crazy_cat wrote: What is the difference between the KS box and the retail - and how do i tell them apart?
Mine is unopened as yet since I collected it from Dragonmeet and lugged it all the way home.
IIRC the main difference is the card stock for all the tiles, etc is thinner and there are less of them in the "retail" version. The box is also correspondingly less deep I think?
Took a quick pic of mine, anyone able to confirm KS or retail version?
Were can i find the 25% Voucher and wy havent everyone got it? I need to buy som new models, so Prodos can earn a little money and mayby then they can ship my KS pledge
I love how there's been a huge delay and most people are constantly waiting for their stuff then others come along and go ...yeah had mine for weeks I've not opened it yet though! Lol mine would be opened glued and undercoated before the postman got back in his van ! Lol
CURNOW wrote: I love how there's been a huge delay and most people are constantly waiting for their stuff then others come along and go ...yeah had mine for weeks I've not opened it yet though! Lol mine would be opened glued and undercoated before the postman got back in his van ! Lol
I know right, it's like I'm really looking forward to this one, but it just never gets sent!
Besides Mierce it's the only Kickstarter I've backed that actually has quality miniatures!
Thanks for the answers, Jarek, I do have a better understanding of the situation now. While it is a little frustrating to see the AvP core box in every games store I go into (both in the UK and continental Europe!) while still waiting for my own copy, at this point I'm happy enough to wait for it.
Hah, my only regret is that I was at the UK Games Expo back in early JUNE, and passed up the chance to claim my copy because it was "too heavy to take back home, and my copy would be arriving in 1-2 months anyway". Hindsight eh?
CURNOW wrote: I love how there's been a huge delay and most people are constantly waiting for their stuff then others come along and go ...yeah had mine for weeks I've not opened it yet though! Lol mine would be opened glued and undercoated before the postman got back in his van ! Lol
Well I'll probably spend a bit more time and care putting them together than that! I've only had it a couple of days not weeks lol and it's the week before Christmas, work has been busy and I haven't had a free evening yet so it's going to have to wait for the weekend.
Quick update, my delivery turned up this morning - 1x box set and several add-ons as well via UPS. The add-ons box was crushed, but luckily looks to escaped any major breakages. The Crusher looks to have a couple of the vestigial appendage things snapped, but a spot of glue will fix that, if I can't fix it will fire of another email to Prodos ...
Haven't opened the box yet, will do that tomorrow morning
Seriously? We've got to put up with broken stuff of what's currently on the shelves?! Why can't I be given a voucher to collect stuff (in good condition) from my FLGS?
As messed up as this is, I actually see the shipping damages as a positive thing. Things can't get broken during shipping, unless they are shipping! They tend not to get broken sitting in boxes in Prodos' warehouse.
If i was a store why would i give you a replacement? You come in give me a voucher i give you a free mini that costs me the retail price i paid plus any margin i wouldbmake from selling it ?
I then have to go through the hassle of contacting prodos ( good luck with that !) To get them to send me a replacement so not only am i missing stock for how ever many weeks or months it takes them to deliver it out to me im also down on my time thats taken plus for all i know i could of sold that mini at full retail price in that time .
My voucher comment was quite an "off the cuff" remark. Bet retail packages don't look sent in bin bags. That said, I think Dust Studios and Battlefront had an option to collect from a FLGS. But the Dust Kickstarter model isn't a good example to follow either... (glad to hear Dust sounds back on track btw)
To answer the question on packaging - there's no branded blister packs / clamshells or boxes with this lot - which was reported as a hold up many moons ago IIRC. The paid for add-ons are in clear plastic bags with a card and counter(s) as per my pic. Still haven't opened the main box - maybe in the morning. Got 4 hours of Games of Throne to watch now...
You could be right Alex C - maybe it was 'printed material' which could well be the cards and/or tokens - sounds reasonable to me.
I don't imagine that this far in, Prodos would risk the license by breaking contractual agreements in place so can only presume that branded packaging is for retail only? Only Prodos and Fox will know that though...
There was also the recent picture of retail packaged expansions with some statement to the effect "Here is all the stuff ready to ship" and it was implied at least some of it was to go to us backers.
Come on Jarek, why not explain all this so we don't have to speculate?
Why are you not sending us the packaged items?
Did Fox approve you sending items NOT in the retail packaging to us backers? If so, why did you claim one of the hold ups was waiting for Fox to approve the packaging?
I had thought at one time, to list chronologically all the things Prodos told us, and then reneged on, straight out lied about, and other snafus they have presented us with. Then, I realized that I don't need to be that depressed. Seriously, how can we realistically expect anything they tell us is true? Every step of the way there has been deception, mis-stated facts, and overly obtuse comunication. My ability to have any faith in their efforts, or even belief that they are capable of handling this project, is long gone. I don't even know if there is anything that they could do at this stage of the game to even break even with me anymore. I've wanted this for too long to just sell it when I get it, so that for me isn't an option, but I will never buy another product by them, unless its at my flgs, in stock.
JoeRugby wrote: [..] but who would give them any money after this sham?
I know, probably rhetorical, but... unfortunately, as all too often happens, a whole new batch of those utterly ignorant of past goings on and a varying number of those who should know better led by those of a faithful bent who choose to willfully ignore that any misdeeds ever occurred at all - because what problems did crop up were all just, misunderstandings, or no one's fault.
Also, when things eventually get too bad reputation-wise, a company can simply reincorporate in some fashion to ''change'' their identity before the subsequent round of funding towards [X] product and eventually play the ''Who, us? That so totally wasn't, we promise.'' card down the road.
Off topic I know, but if I saw unsecured pallets of boxes stacked atop one another in one of my production facilities, I'd push the top pallet over onto the offender as they walked past to demonstrate why you don't do that.
I didn't know Prodos held the Trademark for "Space Crusade". But it certainly appears so. I'll speculate we'll see a Heroquest 25 thing for Space Crusade, but not on kickstarter. Being honest, true scale "Space Crusaders" could tempt me discounted at retail.
But honestly, the company has had enough cash to invest in new product lines, but not fulfil pledges? I'll hold off the bashing though since the latest update looked like things were going to arrive "soon".
On another note, a mate has ordered AVP recently so perhaps I'll finally see a game.
And finally, how come an APC hasn't been sculpted? That would have sold like hot cakes. One of the few things that would make me add to the re-re-re-reopenned pledge manager.
"And HOLY gak it all kicks off again on the FB page. Now Jarek is threatening to delay peoples packages until everything is approved because people have been mean to him and his family.
For feths sake I absolutely agree there is no need or call for attacking peoples family, but he got told to stop using his personal FB account so many times it even got flagged to them.
But of course it has nothing to do with the months of deceit and lying he has been taking an active part in."
I don't use facebook, so can anyone please copy the relevant parts and/or tell us non-FB-users what is currently going on there?!? It's hard to stay up to date without a real/official communication channel... So we have to gather our infos from around the net ourselves.
CptJake wrote: I would love to see Jarek engage folks on Frothers. It would be quite entertaining.
You'd tend to see a duplicate to the pattern of postings that occurs when Khurasan posts their announcements over there, only it would be me and a couple of others taking Pete's role on that one.
"And HOLY gak it all kicks off again on the FB page. Now Jarek is threatening to delay peoples packages until everything is approved because people have been mean to him and his family.
For feths sake I absolutely agree there is no need or call for attacking peoples family, but he got told to stop using his personal FB account so many times it even got flagged to them.
But of course it has nothing to do with the months of deceit and lying he has been taking an active part in."
I don't use facebook, so can anyone please copy the relevant parts and/or tell us non-FB-users what is currently going on there?!? It's hard to stay up to date without a real/official communication channel... So we have to gather our infos from around the net ourselves.
It was a little late coming to Frothers (like many modern things ) but it was regarding the post that Jarek made implying people had threatened his family and were bullying him (sidenote: Jarek is very, very good at written English for the social media age - he posts that he is being harrassed and insulted while waving words like family and threats around the vicinity of the conversation, and lazy facebookers turn that into posting that backers are directly threatening his family members which he never corrects). I've copied his original posting into the spoiler below in case you missed it:
Spoiler:
Hi there all, another update, rather long one.
Future communication:
I am afraid that it will be last update posted from my personal account, in last few days I've faced personal harassment and offensive language towards my person from one of the backers. Unfortunately, my family was involved, as it was firstly spotted by my son... I think I don't have to explain any more why I am not going to be posting more updates nor I'll be answering any questions regarding AvP via my personal account. With this experience in mind we've decided to create a Company Account, run by Prodos sales team members, that will be posting future updates, it seems that doing something innovative (non other Wargamig company does that) like using personal FB accounts turned against us big time, to the horrible level when our families are being damaged, our words twisted around and we have to now accept abuse just because our personal FB accounts are taken as Prodos ones.
Well, reinventing the wheel went wrong for us, I am afraid.
We will gather questions under each update and provide answers with following update, meaning that we won't answer question in no time as it used to be.
About Complains:
We had been under impression that we would get full list of products (as on KS) approved in one go. This, obviously did not happen. We have been told, later in the process, that we'll be given an approval on a Board game and then slowly on more pieces. As stated many times, the product once approved needed to go through sales regardless of what we have been wishing or thinking, there was no other option. It was our decision to take a bullet and ship it in waves to backers, once we have the game and later bits of addons approved, in fact there was no other option neither. As much as I totally understand the reasons for complains, we as company won't tolerate any offensive attacks directed towards Prodos employees or their families. We've lost few good members of Prodos due this already, thus, if you really want to offend us personally or our families then please continue to do so, we will make sure that you product will be shipped as agreed initially in one parcel after everything is approved, after all, the wave shipping is coming out of Prodos pocket so why Prodos should pay for it to those that are making personal attack towards Prodos employees or their families? There are more patient and understandable backers that deserve it more, in my opinion, than someone constantly going against our families or threatening us via personal messages or taking actions to damage Prodos.
We are really doing all we can to fulfil it as soon as possible.
About pledge manager:
Please, another call to backers to double check their names in PM.
Also, we got 21 undelivered parcels coming back to us in last month, you should be getting a tracking number on your KS emial address once parcel is shipped. I had a chat with our packing team and they will make sure that courier company is given your KS emial for tracking purposes.
Holidays
Final words: we wish you happy and peaceful holidays. Today 41 parcels left the house out of 250+ planned for this week and we are sure that they will be delivered before Christmas.
Thanks again.
Regards J.
"And HOLY gak it all kicks off again on the FB page. Now Jarek is threatening to delay peoples packages until everything is approved because people have been mean to him and his family.
For feths sake I absolutely agree there is no need or call for attacking peoples family, but he got told to stop using his personal FB account so many times it even got flagged to them.
But of course it has nothing to do with the months of deceit and lying he has been taking an active part in."
I don't use facebook, so can anyone please copy the relevant parts and/or tell us non-FB-users what is currently going on there?!? It's hard to stay up to date without a real/official communication channel... So we have to gather our infos from around the net ourselves.
What is frothers? I did a google search and got a bunch of crap on amazon pop up on the first page.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So now replying to stuff on Facebook with your personal account instead of creating a company account is innovative instead of just easier/lazy? In that case, I innovated last week when I put hot cocoa in my coffee because I was out of sugar and didn't want to drive to the grocery store. I call this reinvention of the wheel that I created "mocha".
Also, wasn't the previous meltdown also in the lead up to christmas when they shutdown the facebook account for dubious reasons after being criticized fairly? Can anyone post a link to the actual "attack" on the family members of Prodos employees? There are the obvious comments about Prodos employess themselves being called liars but I haven't seen anything here on dakka (not on facebook myself) about family members other than recommendations that you shouldn't be both screwing up AND using personal accounts for business if you don't want your family to witness the former.
Their forums are not moderated and language can be a bit rough. Some very talented folks there, and some of the resources (like minis available by period) are damned good.
Their forums are not moderated and language can be a bit rough. Some very talented folks there, and some of the resources (like minis available by period) are damned good.
Ah, thanks. I was apparently also mentally mispronouncing it as well.
It's not based on the word "brother" but rather "froth" as in to froth at the mouth. And, yeah, if this is the reception they get here on dakka where it is actually moderated then I can see why folks would be surprised about them going to a site where there is no moderation (doubly so when you add in the fact of them shutting down their KS page for false IP reasons just to avoid uncomfortable questions about rolling delays).
It's got a very retro look from the 1990's as well kind of like TMP. I don't know if that is just because they're innovators like Prodos or just because they haven't bothered updating it.
"And HOLY gak it all kicks off again on the FB page. Now Jarek is threatening to delay peoples packages until everything is approved because people have been mean to him and his family.
For feths sake I absolutely agree there is no need or call for attacking peoples family, but he got told to stop using his personal FB account so many times it even got flagged to them.
But of course it has nothing to do with the months of deceit and lying he has been taking an active part in."
I don't use facebook, so can anyone please copy the relevant parts and/or tell us non-FB-users what is currently going on there?!? It's hard to stay up to date without a real/official communication channel... So we have to gather our infos from around the net ourselves.
What is frothers? I did a google search and got a bunch of crap on amazon pop up on the first page.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So now replying to stuff on Facebook with your personal account instead of creating a company account is innovative instead of just easier/lazy? In that case, I innovated last week when I put hot cocoa in my coffee because I was out of sugar and didn't want to drive to the grocery store. I call this reinvention of the wheel that I created "mocha".
Also, wasn't the previous meltdown also in the lead up to christmas when they shutdown the facebook account for dubious reasons after being criticized fairly? Can anyone post a link to the actual "attack" on the family members of Prodos employees?
It got deleted from Facebook, but I've put the gist up from page 225(ish) of this thread.
I basically called him a liar. There's copy/pastes of conversations that went on and a few screenshots etc. His family wasn't threatened at all throughout any of it.
So to summarise, a member of liar's (or representative of company that has regularly lied) family sees a mail that mentions the word "liar." Liar (or representative of company that has regularly lied), gets upset presumably to divert attention from 1) being daft enough to be using a personal account for business, 2) as a way of deflecting flak from product that still hasn't gone anywhere 3) most recent fib of things being held up due to packaging, but which are shipped without branded packaging.
Is that it? really?
I know it's an emotive word, but it's not an inaccurate one. Perhaps if more people in society were held to account for it, things would be better all round. That's my Christmas thought. I have extra time for thinking, as we've no AvP to play, thanks to Prodos.
thothkins wrote: That's my Christmas thought. I have extra time for thinking, as we've no AvP to play, thanks to Prodos.
Actually, Prodos claimed back in October of 2014 that they would have everything (that's a single wave shipping of ALL components) to us by Christmas (2014). Quite possibly their biggest and most obvious lie, it does mean that in fact this is now your second Christmas of not playing AvP.
I think that at this stage for many people there will be no Christmases of playing AvP regardless of having received their product, Prodod have destroyed their own reputation.
It got deleted from Facebook, but I've put the gist up from page 225(ish) of this thread.
I basically called him a liar. There's copy/pastes of conversations that went on and a few screenshots etc. His family wasn't threatened at all throughout any of it.
Yeah, the stuff posted here I'm aware of but thanks (and to thotkins for the recap). I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything dastardly from outside of this hive of scum and villainy that we shamefully post on.
The frothers avp page is nothing like the tony reidy /wargames factory one ...if jarek is worried about people having ago /moaning he should read them and take some lessons lol
thothkins wrote: So to summarise, a member of liar's (or representative of company that has regularly lied) family sees a mail that mentions the word "liar." Liar (or representative of company that has regularly lied), gets upset presumably to divert attention from 1) being daft enough to be using a personal account for business, 2) as a way of deflecting flak from product that still hasn't gone anywhere 3) most recent fib of things being held up due to packaging, but which are shipped without branded packaging.
Is that it? really?
Apparently his son read it before he did and that constitutes a threat on his family.
Goes to show the kind of person who is running the company really.
biggusdoggus wrote: Actually, Prodos claimed back in October of 2014 that they would have everything (that's a single wave shipping of ALL components) to us by Christmas (2014). Quite possibly their biggest and most obvious lie, it does mean that in fact this is now your second Christmas of not playing AvP.
Waaaah!
Sorry, I sound like Prodos hysterically overreacting to something on Facebook.
PomWallaby wrote: I didn't know Prodos held the Trademark for "Space Crusade"..
I only found the US Space Crusade trademark and its status was "ABANDONED-FAILURE TO RESPOND OR LATE RESPONSE 1/15/2015". But I don't know more, and would appreciate additional info!
Filing Date: 3/17/2014
The correspondent of the SPACE CRUSADE is JAROSLAW GRZEGORZ E; JAROSLAW GRZEGORZ E of 33 EDEN COURT; SERVICE@PRODOS.CO.UK, LEAMINGTON SPA, CV327PG UNITED KINGDOM .
Prodos games ltd towers !!!
Obviously the site of a international company !
Also as rob isn't part of them anymore shouldn't that be changed ?
And not for one moment would i state that ether rob lied or they are just using this as a proxie adress for tax and legal purposes in the uk and it has nothing to do with uk insolvency laws and the fact the actual stuff wouldn't be able to be collected by sheriffs. ...
But as per ced1106's post, the 'Space Crusade' trademark is registered to Prodos it seems and described as;
SPACE CRUSADE
By: Jaroslaw Grzegorz Ewertowski
Game equipment, namely, three-dimensional modular pieces for assembly to resemble miniature terrain; Gaming paper, namely, paper printed with regular grid and hexagon patterns for use in playing war games, role playing games and miniature games; Playing pieces in the nature of miniature action figures and toy model vehicles for use with table top hobby battle games in the nature of battle, war and skirmish games, and fantasy games
Apparantly to be one of Prodos' "Space Crusaders" :
"You must own enough painted Prodos Games material to run a game of Warzone Resurrection or AvP."
I expect most of us own enough AVP to run several games. I certainly do. Most of it is however unpainted as it is sitting in a warehouse, awaiting shipping, yet to be cast or yet to be boxed or simply does not exist depending on which (if any) of the lies is the truth!
Prodos are now notably late in filing their accounts that cover the year through to 31 January 2015 (should have been by 31 October 2015 I think). As a result, an application has been started by Companies House (the UK Government agency that manages company filings etc) to strike off the company (basically dissolve it and take ownership of any property (physical or intellectual) that it has). They have 2 months to act.
I'll try and attach the PDF - if that fails I'll put up a link so you can access it yourself.
That's certainly concerning news for those still awaiting pledges (most of us at least for wave 3 - much worse for those that haven't received wave 1 and wave 2 though
PomWallaby wrote: It might not be as bad as it sounds since I don't think there's any British part of Prodos left.
The entire company is Prodos Games Limited - while the physical stuff has been moved to Poland, the legal entity (that holds the licence with Fox) is in the UK.
PomWallaby wrote: It might not be as bad as it sounds since I don't think there's any British part of Prodos left.
The entire company is Prodos Games Limited - while the physical stuff has been moved to Poland, the legal entity (that holds the licence with Fox) is in the UK.
Thanks for your concern, however as stated on FB, the issues is with late paperwork... we have always been late with paperworks...
This is getting sort out by our accountant asap, Thanks.
As for the Prodos, there are 3 other companies that are owned by Prodos, one of them is based in Poland (stand alone company with 99% shared sold to Prodos) that is handling manufacturing and so on.
As we are based in Poland most of the time, we may (at some point) sell Prodos Games LTD (brand) and all of its assets to company in Poland to make sure that paperwork is done on time and so on.
@warzone do you have any idea how dodgy it sounds when you cant fulfil obligations to customers, don't file accounts properly and use multiple shell companies?
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: @warzone do you have any idea how dodgy it sounds when you cant fulfil obligations to customers, don't file accounts properly and use multiple shell companies?
Hi there, not sure what is your understanding of business law in Europe, so let me explain you : We cannot have Prodos Games LTD operation in Poland as it's UK based company, thus for tax purposes, we needed to have another company set up (to pay taxes, insurance and wages for employees ect).
Why we have moved manufacturing out of UK: Manufacturing need a massive floor space that we could not get in UK for reasonable price + it's cheaper so that we can keep cheap prices for resin products.
I think , Dell and Cadburry had the same reason to move out from UK.
99% of shares of the company in Poland belongs to Prodos.
Prodos also own 2 other companies (100% of their shares) we have purchased for their equipment and know-how this year.
As for filling out paperwork, yes we are late. This is being sort out and to be hones we are not the only one being late with it.
@warzone citing cadburys who have been lambasted for their business practices in the UK is not the greatest starting point. These businesses also file their accounts on time. Also when you buy a chocolate bar from cadburys you actually get what you paid for, not an ever increasing lists of excuses and overly aggressive public responses.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: @warzone citing cadburys who have been lambasted for their business practices in the UK is not the greatest starting point. These businesses also file their accounts on time. Also when you buy a chocolate bar from cadburys you actually get what you paid for, not an ever increasing lists of excuses and overly aggressive public responses.
Thanks for your comment, please note our issue is with fulfilling KS not other business we are conducting (retail sales).
As stated the KS should be out by Feb, reason for delays where stated many times.
Sorry if you have taken my comment as aggressive, I was just explaining the issue behind having a company in Poland and legal reasons bonded with it. Thanks
for all their issues, Cadbury (owned by Kraft) do still manufacture in the UK at the Bournville site near Birmingham.
Dell have NEVER manufactured products in the UK. I suspect you're confusing Limerick in the Republic of Ireland with the UK - Eire is not part of the UK.
but let's not let made up facts regarding other companies get in the way of your own incompetence eh?
The issue here for me is not that you have a company under the Prodos umbrella in Poland (that does make perfect sense to me) but rather that your failure to complete the most basic of legal tasks within the remit of your UK operation, given that it's that that holds the licence, makes you look very unprofessional and could be enough for other companies looking to do business with you (maybe give you lucrative contracts for design and manufacturing) to think twice. Not complying with UK law stinks of unprofessional-ism and that in turn further damages your reputation within the market.
biggusdoggus wrote: ....I suspect you're confusing Limerick in the Republic of Ireland with the UK - Eire is not part of the UK.
....
As far as Prodos AvP deliveries go that might explain something - although they did manage to deliver to the main gaming store here a few months ago lots of copies sitting unsold but no delivery here
Tbh they cant have much of a footprint left in the uk . Just robs flat ...i wonder if being uk based was a prerequisite for the fox licence? So the only reason they are keeping up the uk thing is to keep the licence.
But then rob still says he isn't a partner /director for them anymore just an employee as he's trying to distance himself from them so he can get more money from his weird war 2 kickstarter (thats being made and designed by prodos )
So yeah if they dont get the returns sorted on time the fictional part of prodos in the uk could end up losing them the licence to produce and sell avp
biggusdoggus wrote: for all their issues, Cadbury (owned by Kraft) do still manufacture in the UK at the Bournville site near Birmingham.
Dell have NEVER manufactured products in the UK. I suspect you're confusing Limerick in the Republic of Ireland with the UK - Eire is not part of the UK.
but let's not let made up facts regarding other companies get in the way of your own incompetence eh?
The issue here for me is not that you have a company under the Prodos umbrella in Poland (that does make perfect sense to me) but rather that your failure to complete the most basic of legal tasks within the remit of your UK operation, given that it's that that holds the licence, makes you look very unprofessional and could be enough for other companies looking to do business with you (maybe give you lucrative contracts for design and manufacturing) to think twice. Not complying with UK law stinks of unprofessional-ism and that in turn further damages your reputation within the market.
Hi there, thanks for your comments, as you can see by the paperwork above we have 2 months to file it.
Regardless, we've used external accounting services for this kind of work. Not shielding here behind anyone, however I have been told last week that the accountant was late with paperwork because he was "busy" and it's on his list to do after Christmas. I think I have to give him some credit of trust as he haven't failed us before (3y of trading???)... I've not questioned why he was "busy" (not my business, maybe some personal issues) but I have been assured that it won't happen again and it will be sort out asap.
I don't really see any reason why we should carry on this discussion about late paperwork it doe's not affect Prodos in any way or yourself.
BTW only one reason to get company strike off is to not trade for 3 months... the reason why we get this automated letter is because we have not filed paperwork on time (annual return- provide address of HQ and other stuff) and automated machine sent us a generic letter, which only shows gaps in the system as we have been posting VAT returns on time showing that we are trading... Anyway. We are going too deep into this pointlessly, so as stated above : thanks, we know about the issue and we are working on a fix.
Thanks
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CURNOW wrote: Tbh they cant have much of a footprint left in the uk . Just robs flat ...i wonder if being uk based was a prerequisite for the fox licence? So the only reason they are keeping up the uk thing is to keep the licence.
But then rob still says he isn't a partner /director for them anymore just an employee as he's trying to distance himself from them so he can get more money from his weird war 2 kickstarter (thats being made and designed by prodos )
So yeah if they dont get the returns sorted on time the fictional part of prodos in the uk could end up losing them the licence to produce and sell avp
Hi there, licenses are bonded to the company, we could buy off Prodos Games LTD with all it's licenses and assets by Polish company, but we decided to keep the status quo for now as we have UK based employees.
You can be late for more than 2y, we are late 2 months thus 350GBP fine will be applied unless we make an appeal : quote: "it was your accountant’s (or anybody else’s) fault" or "the directors live or were travelling overseas".... Thanks
biggusdoggus wrote: for all their issues, Cadbury (owned by Kraft) do still manufacture in the UK at the Bournville site near Birmingham.
Dell have NEVER manufactured products in the UK. I suspect you're confusing Limerick in the Republic of Ireland with the UK - Eire is not part of the UK.
but let's not let made up facts regarding other companies get in the way of your own incompetence eh?
The issue here for me is not that you have a company under the Prodos umbrella in Poland (that does make perfect sense to me) but rather that your failure to complete the most basic of legal tasks within the remit of your UK operation, given that it's that that holds the licence, makes you look very unprofessional and could be enough for other companies looking to do business with you (maybe give you lucrative contracts for design and manufacturing) to think twice. Not complying with UK law stinks of unprofessional-ism and that in turn further damages your reputation within the market.
Hi there, thanks for your comments, as you can see by the paperwork above we have 2 months to file it.
Regardless, we've used external accounting services for this kind of work. Not shielding here behind anyone, however I have been told last week that the accountant was late with paperwork because he was "busy" and it's on his list to do after Christmas. I think I have to give him some credit of trust as he haven't failed us before (3y of trading???)... I've not questioned why he was "busy" (not my business, maybe some personal issues) but I have been assured that it won't happen again and it will be sort out asap.
I don't really see any reason why we should carry on this discussion about late paperwork it doe's not affect Prodos in any way or yourself.
BTW only one reason to get company strike off is to not trade for 3 months... the reason why we get this automated letter is because we have not filed paperwork on time (annual return- provide address of HQ and other stuff) and automated machine sent us a generic letter, which only shows gaps in the system as we have been posting VAT returns on time showing that we are trading... Anyway. We are going too deep into this pointlessly, so as stated above : thanks, we know about the issue and we are working on a fix.
Thanks
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CURNOW wrote: Tbh they cant have much of a footprint left in the uk . Just robs flat ...i wonder if being uk based was a prerequisite for the fox licence? So the only reason they are keeping up the uk thing is to keep the licence.
But then rob still says he isn't a partner /director for them anymore just an employee as he's trying to distance himself from them so he can get more money from his weird war 2 kickstarter (thats being made and designed by prodos )
So yeah if they dont get the returns sorted on time the fictional part of prodos in the uk could end up losing them the licence to produce and sell avp
Hi there, licenses are bonded to the company, we could buy off Prodos Games LTD with all it's licenses and assets by Polish company, but we decided to keep the status quo for now as we have UK based employees.
Thanks.
As I said in the Facebook group Jarek - it is more likely to be that Prodos haven't posted their annual financial accounts rather than their annual return that is the issue.
Prodos' Annual return is not late - the usual date for having to file an annual return is the anniversary date of when the company was incorporated. Prodos was incorporated on 24th January 2013 - the first Annual return was filed on 10th March 2014 (late, but no notice to strike off was raised), the second Annual return was filed on 26th January 2015 (pretty much bang on time), the third annual return is not due for 3 - 4 weeks. It is not late.
Prodos' Financial Accounts are late. The first year's accounts were filed on 24th October 2014 (I believe that they would have been due by 31st October 2014, so they were filed a week early). No other accounts have been filed. Unless Prodos' financial year has been changed, the accounts are due 9 months after the company's Financial Year ends - assuming that is 31st January, the Accounts should have been filed 31st October 2015, and any corporation tax should have been paid by 1st November 2015. As no accounts have been filed, I assume that no Corporation Tax return has been filed and no Corporation Tax due has been paid (if any). This is much more likely a reason as to why the notice to strike off will have been issued.
TL : DR - Annual Return is NOT LATE, Annual Accounts ARE LATE.
EDIT: I believe that Rob Alderman is no longer an employee with Prodos (although I could be mistaken).
EDIT 2: just noticed the bit about appealing the late filing penalty - you should re-read the rules Jarek (my bolding/ italics) -
You can’t appeal by claiming:
your company is dormant
you can’t afford to pay
it was your accountant’s (or anybody else’s) fault
you didn’t know when or how to file your accounts
your accounts were delayed or lost in the post
the directors live or were travelling overseas
CURNOW wrote: Prodos towers !!!
Obviously the site of a international company !
...
Hi there, you got a bit confused Prodos LTD was set up by me, it is my personal company started long time before Prodos Games LTD and was needed when I worked as an engineer in automotive industry....
As for Space Crusaders and Space Crusade.
Space Crusaders is a line of miniatures that we had in mind to release last year, initial release was scheduled for end of 2015 (post AvP KS), however due to delays with AvP, we have postpone release to beg of 2016.
Currently the range consist of 65 models and the plan is to expand it to 120 in 2016.
As for Space Crusade, our TM is active and a board game will be released mid this year.
Non of this releases is KS. We don't have any plans for any KS in future, for us is a bad experience and a trap that may cost you a lot. We plan to be KS free from February.
I wish other companies, to be KS free as well, however I know it's really difficult to break free once you've started.
@ richred_uk: ohhh yes you are right, well as I said, this is why we have left accounting to professionals. Regardless, I think I have gave enough answer to this topic, it will be sorted out just after Xmas. Thanks.
Non of this releases is KS. We don't have any plans for any KS in future, for us is a bad experience and a trap that may cost you a lot. We plan to be KS free from February.
I think that would be best for everyone involved as long as you don't take pre-orders too far in advance or try some sort of personal crowdfunding like Palladium Books did on their website.
Non of this releases is KS. We don't have any plans for any KS in future, for us is a bad experience and a trap that may cost you a lot. We plan to be KS free from February.
I think that would be best for everyone involved as long as you don't take pre-orders too far in advance or try some sort of personal crowdfunding like Palladium Books did on their website.
Thanks, no pre-orders, once the product is ready will be in shops.
Miniatures, should be out in next few weeks.
Hi Warzone Res:
Adam Chaszczewski here.
My pledge manager has status as 'awaiting'.
Is that awaiting for you to send my stuff or awaiting for me to do something?
Cheers.
bubber wrote: Hi Warzone Res:
Adam Chaszczewski here.
My pledge manager has status as 'awaiting'.
Is that awaiting for you to send my stuff or awaiting for me to do something?
Cheers.
Hi there, all is good. No need to do anything. As per update by Feb you should receive it, Thanks.
@warzone so you are using factory capacity to produce this new range of miniatures rather than pack the outstanding AvsP parcels for kickstarter backers? Or are all the kickstarter packs complete and ready for shipping?
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: @warzone so you are using factory capacity to produce this new range of miniatures rather than pack the outstanding AvsP parcels for kickstarter backers? Or are all the kickstarter packs complete and ready for shipping?
Thanks for your question, no, these models are not in mass production yet, so no capacity is used. As stared we plan to have KS AvP out in next few months meaning that we can then use capacity to produce other line of models. Thanks
Non of this releases is KS. We don't have any plans for any KS in future, for us is a bad experience and a trap that may cost you a lot. We plan to be KS free from February.
I think that would be best for everyone involved as long as you don't take pre-orders too far in advance or try some sort of personal crowdfunding like Palladium Books did on their website.
Thanks, no pre-orders, once the product is ready will be in shops. Miniatures, should be out in next few weeks.
Small sneaky peek:
Interesting... and great news about no more KS - I'm totally burned out by all the KSs
bubber wrote:Hi Warzone Res: Adam Chaszczewski here. My pledge manager has status as 'awaiting'. Is that awaiting for you to send my stuff or awaiting for me to do something? Cheers.
My advice - close out your Pledge Manager so that you get the receipt e-mailed to you, then forward that to michal.pawlaczyk@prodos.co.uk and ask politely for confirmation on delivery date. I did just this on Tue, 8 Dec and received a reply within minutes from Michal to say he'd get my Wave 1 out the next day. Received package on Mon, 21 Dec
Oh and the models are a pure joy to behold - I had a small breakage on the Crusher as the add-ons box was damaged in transit -but nothing I can't fix with a spot of superglue...
@ Warzone. I just have a few quick questions for you. What is the status of the 3D terrain? I ask because I have 2 sets as part of my pledge. I have not received anything yet and wonder if it will be sent as well by February. Is it possible to get any kind of update on this? Would it be better for me to replace this with other items to help get my stuff/ anything out the door?
bubber wrote: Hi Warzone Res:
Adam Chaszczewski here.
My pledge manager has status as 'awaiting'.
Is that awaiting for you to send my stuff or awaiting for me to do something?
Cheers.
Hi there, all is good. No need to do anything. As per update by Feb you should receive it, Thanks.
I get the feeling that those of us who have received nothing so far can expect all of our stuff in Feb and not before. :/
Cool, maybe if they ever ever deliver what they owe me I'll eventually be able to purchase a set of board game rules that are worth actually using to go along with the board game!
Having just read the latest Prodos KS update in my inbox, i am a tad confused.
How can prodos be making a game called 'space crusade' with Crusades in space miniatures.
Genuinely have no idea what the story is, but wont someone at GW be on a phone to a lawyer already? or is prodos allowed to use the name 'space crusade' for a miniatures based game???
Dear jarak i would like to apply. Could you post me a application form ? And maybe as your at it pop my stuff in with it ? You know the stuff that i paid for 2yrs ago and has been sat gathering dust in your warehouse? The stuff that all you had to do was pick it out of tubs and put in a cardboard box ...the stuff that was waiting on retail packaging that you hve now decided it isn't going to have . The stuff that was waiting on card parts and because my pledge is for models only it doesn't include ? My pledge that you keep opening and deleting my real name then saying its my fault because my pledge is open and doesn't have my name ? The pledge that only includes stuff thats been signed off since the beginning of new year ? ....oh maybe just leave it till feb cos tbh i dont think i will ever paint these figs as ive grown to slowly hate them and my plans for a huge theamed tablebwith 100s of xenos and marines has now been spent on something more tangible.
3 months ago we have set up a "saving" account to secure cash for shipping 2nd and 3rd wave of AvP. We have some really exciting news. Our sales team has really done an extremely good on sales of Prodos games products and casting services in the past 3 months and we have secured 42K+ GBP for Wave shipping (see attached picture http://imgur.com/l6P2PyZ ). This only means that we have in plans to ship out ALL KS items by end of January. We will also set up an email account for queries regarding only the KS - KS@prodosgames.com, this email will be active from mid February. IF you have not received your rewards by END February please contact us immediately on the email above.
A small BUG.
We have found a small issue with pledge manager.. The pledge manager was linked to our online shop and run on the same platform, if a KS backer have made any purchase in our shop (Warzone for instance) the PM in some cases marked off KS pledge as shipped and shop purchase tracking number was recorded in KS box as well. This have been now resolved. However if you plan to make any purchases in our shop or you have done it in last week or so please emial us on service@prodos.co.uk, we will check every individual case. I hope my words wont get twisted around, but so security (to make sure that we can actually provide you with KS tracking number) if you made any purchase in our shop and if you have not shipped your KS rewards, we will have to do it in one parcel with one tracking number (shop order + KS rewards). At this stage this is the only solution without interfering into source code of PM... the last thing we need at this stage is total fallout with PM.
Prodos Games LTD
Last year for Prodos was like a ride on roller coaster. Although, we are ashamed of decisions we have made, like getting retail out and so on (to some degree we had no option anyway) in a long run our it shows that the decisions we have made secured KS and Prodos Games future.
Prodos Games in now 30 employees we are providing services for many companies, some of you may even have models made by us not even knowing that Prodos was the manufacturer, 12 KS run by other companies went through our hands, either in the form of 3D sculpting, 3d Printing or casting. In last 6 months (we track numbers for last 6 months only) we have made 109237 sprues of miniatures for external customers! That's 100k sprues!
We totally understand that for many of you Prodos is the worse company that you could have a pleasure to deal with, frankly, a lot, and I mean a lot of delays where due to lack of our experience with the big boys and 3rd party delays that affect us personally and Prodos.
What we can assure that the product you will receive is the top quality in terms of casting as well as design- we are a bunch of engineers and the quality for us is the top goal.
I said many times that for us AvP KS was like an open wound, that was bleeding out us slowly, and only what we could do last year was to put some plasters to reduce the bleeding... now, we are in the stage of stitches that stop the bleeding however we are aware that AVP KS scar will stay for ever on Prodos Games face. The root cause of all issues was the decision to go KS with this project. Looking back we should get it out slowly, starting with a board game and then add more.. but, we have a new future, a KS free future, this decision for us, in a long term, I believe is the best decision we could make. We know, for fact, how difficult is to run a KS, we know how many companies must go from KS to KS to fulfil previous commitments and we know how many companies are struggling because we have been helping them out. So no-KS projects are the future for us.
New NO-KS Projects.
We are happy to announced that in February we are releasing a new line of miniatures called Space Crusaders. We have already 60 models designed, cast and all going through painting at this stage, this will follow with Space Crusade Board Game mid year... and the range of the models will be increased to 120 by the end of 2016. Sign up for a newsletter in our shop for more information if you are interested.
In May+, Prodos is releasing Warzone 2.0 and new faction Illian. Some really new innovative Wargaming solutions will be put in place.
June/July is a new add to AvP Board Game (stand alone game + expansion to the current game, with additional rules) and focus will be put on war-gaming side of the AvP (more models)
AvP range also will expand. We have in plans to get out another 15 types of models, 5 for each faction! (collecting references). And if plastic work out for us we will have as well Dropship as well.
Hope that one day we can forget the issues we have been going through with AvP KS and Prodos will become your favourite company. We will work very very hard to regain your trust and KS backers will always have a spot in our hart regardless of personal attack or other issues. As long as Prodos exist we are ready to give you, from mid year once the facility is developed, a lifetime 5% off on our products sold via Prodos Games webstore.
Well hopefully Prodos has more success in future. Glad to hear there is enough money to ship all rewards, I look forward to seeing mine show up at some point.
Has there been any word on the Wargame rules? I pledged for the book and haven't heard much about it until this statement about middle of next year. Is that when I will receive my book?
Has there been any word on the Wargame rules? I pledged for the book and haven't heard much about it until this statement about middle of next year. Is that when I will receive my book?
From their update:
Jarek as Prodos wrote:This only means that we have in plans to ship out ALL KS items by end of January.
Clearly the books are printed and bing packed as I type this. No way ALL KS items can be translated another way, right?
So the 3d Terrain, Predator tiles, clear/cloaked minis, hard cover rulebook, alternate (not boxed game version) marines, the marine sergeant and so on will be included in the January shipment.
Or maybe Jarek is setting himself up to be called less than honest again...
Can't wait to hear the whining when he is called out on it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: By the way, is that as of yet un-named shipper in the US still sitting on the boxed games? If so, are you (Prodos) shipping them all the rest of the stuff in time for them to deliver our packages by this February deadline?
Or will they be sending our boxed games ASAP while Prodos ships all our add ons directly?
Or is everything shipping directly from Prodos (and this other shipper and the tales that they had our boxed games just a myth)?
CURNOW wrote: So if i order something from the prodos store tonight as a backer they will have to send my pledge out with that order ? ? ....worth a go
I read it as they will ship both in one package, not necessarily that you will get your KS stuff any earlier, might be that your retail order gets held back.
Yeah but under EU law they only have 28days to deliver it to you ....so maybe get it faster but then it would involve giving more money to them and im not going to do that
Prodos Games in now 30 employees we are providing services for many companies, some of you may even have models made by us not even knowing that Prodos was the manufacturer, 12 KS run by other companies went through our hands, either in the form of 3D sculpting, 3d Printing or casting. In last 6 months (we track numbers for last 6 months only) we have made 109237 sprues of miniatures for external customers! That's 100k sprues!
So, thanks to Alien Assimilation Host and AvP, I'll add another KS guideline: Don't back a company that makes mini's for other companies.
I don't get it with the US Space Crusaders trademark, although Prodos is in the UK. The status is "ABANDONED-FAILURE TO RESPOND OR LATE RESPONSE 1/15/2015".
Does Prodos have the trademark somewhere (eg. UK, Poland, EU?) so have some sort of rights to put out their own SC game? Someone tell Dionisius!
Thats the thing they aren't in the uk . According to their own records all they have registered in the uk as a business address is a small one bedroom flat in a residential area . (Probably robs ) but then they also state that he isn't a partner anymore . So i think they are just paying him so they can keep the legal foothold in the uk to be classed as a uk firm even tho 100% of their holdings and staff are poland based .
CURNOW wrote: Thats the thing they aren't in the uk . According to their own records all they have registered in the uk as a business address is a small one bedroom flat in a residential area . (Probably robs ) but then they also state that he isn't a partner anymore . So i think they are just paying him so they can keep the legal foothold in the uk to be classed as a uk firm even tho 100% of their holdings and staff are poland based .
Please leave Rob out of this. He is no longer anything to do with Prodos. I can confirm that this is not his home, but it was (approx 2 years ago) the UK abode of one of the current directors of Prodos Games. There are 2 directors of Prodos UK, both live in Poland (like 100% of employees) - the UK involvement (team) have been systematically removed, via one means or another.
CURNOW wrote: Thats the thing they aren't in the uk . According to their own records all they have registered in the uk as a business address is a small one bedroom flat in a residential area . (Probably robs ) but then they also state that he isn't a partner anymore . So i think they are just paying him so they can keep the legal foothold in the uk to be classed as a uk firm even tho 100% of their holdings and staff are poland based .
I'm assuming that the address you are referring to is the Eden Court one - that isn't their company registered address - I think it's one that Jarek used for the trademark application in 2013 (?). The registered address is: Warwick Business Centre Hawkes Drive, Heathcote Industrial Estate, Warwick, CV34 6LX. I believe that this is just a mail box - the Warwick Business Centre website shows that it is multiple offices for small companies and I think they provide mail box services so that you can register a company there - Prodos dont show on the current office tenants list - http://www.warwickbusinesscentre.co.uk/floorplans.html.
The Prodos website now shows the Warwick Business Centre address as their place of business, but it used to show "Unit 1 Victoria Business Centre, Neilston Street, Leamington Spa, Warwickshire CV31 2AZ" and you may find this address elsewhere on the web, but I believe that this is no longer an active address for them.
CURNOW wrote: Thats the thing they aren't in the uk . According to their own records all they have registered in the uk as a business address is a small one bedroom flat in a residential area . (Probably robs ) but then they also state that he isn't a partner anymore . So i think they are just paying him so they can keep the legal foothold in the uk to be classed as a uk firm even tho 100% of their holdings and staff are poland based .
Please leave Rob out of this. He is no longer anything to do with Prodos. I can confirm that this is not his home, but it was (approx 2 years ago) the UK abode of one of the current directors of Prodos Games. There are 2 directors of Prodos UK, both live in Poland (like 100% of employees) - the UK involvement (team) have been systematically removed, via one means or another.
Yikes!
Sounds ominous...
Anyway, I look forward to the day when all pledges have finally been shipped and received.
By most accounts the miniatures themselves are quite nice and most will certainly be happy with them...
Rick_1138 wrote: Having just read the latest Prodos KS update in my inbox, i am a tad confused.
How can prodos be making a game called 'space crusade' with Crusades in space miniatures.
Genuinely have no idea what the story is, but wont someone at GW be on a phone to a lawyer already? or is prodos allowed to use the name 'space crusade' for a miniatures based game???
On a side note can I ask where you heard about the Space Crusade game?
Just read about the plastic drop-ship as well! Would love to get my hands on one of those.
The wargames rules seem like a nice idea, but not sure how possible its going to be to get the 'feel' of the movies into a wargame. How do you get the predators moving about the board secretly, and only hunting according to their own code? Or the aliens coming out from absolutely no-where, but utterly lethal?
As much as I like the miniature boardgame miniatures the game itself feels more like a computer game, rather than making you feel like you're playing the game of the movies. I'm not sure if its possible to trap that into a game to be honest, and some stuff (being killed by a facehugger then another fully grown warrior-type bursting out and rushing into play) is ridiculously canon-breaking.
Alex C wrote: For those who received product already, what mail carrier was used?
Postal service? UPS? Fedex? DHL?
I picked mine up in person and carried the (very heavy) box back from Dragonmeet as I had no reason to believe they were actually going to ship me anything
As much as I like the miniature boardgame miniatures the game itself feels more like a computer game, rather than making you feel like you're playing the game of the movies. I'm not sure if its possible to trap that into a game to be honest, and some stuff (being killed by a facehugger then another fully grown warrior-type bursting out and rushing into play) is ridiculously canon-breaking.
I have barely touched mine, mainly cause it sickens me to look at it. This Kickstarter has been a complete farce, in my opinion. I unboxed it all, to find that the clips are so bloody snug, that when you try to slot them in(gently), it tears the facings of the card. The models are nice and that's about the only positive thing I have to say about it.
angelofvengeance wrote: I unboxed it all, to find that the clips are so bloody snug, that when you try to slot them in(gently), it tears the facings of the card.
From my experience and what I've learned with dealing with a lot of 'card' terrain like Battle Systems that first test dry fit. If the dry fit is too snug, don't force it, trim the card with a blade. Then once the fit is good seal with superglue to make it firm and hard like plastic, then you never have to worry about tearing. It also greatly increases the life of the boards. I do these with my cardboard tokens as well from any board game these days. With X-Wing I highlighted the edges first with a paint sharpie, then sealed them with superglue so they look really nice.
CURNOW wrote: Im yet to see a single thing .serves me right for going in for loads .
You're not alone! I feel the same way every time I hear anything about this project. How much did I spend on this again. Head shake, sigh, depression ensues.
angelofvengeance wrote: I unboxed it all, to find that the clips are so bloody snug, that when you try to slot them in(gently), it tears the facings of the card.
From my experience and what I've learned with dealing with a lot of 'card' terrain like Battle Systems that first test dry fit. If the dry fit is too snug, don't force it, trim the card with a blade. Then once the fit is good seal with superglue to make it firm and hard like plastic, then you never have to worry about tearing. It also greatly increases the life of the boards. I do these with my cardboard tokens as well from any board game these days. With X-Wing I highlighted the edges first with a paint sharpie, then sealed them with superglue so they look really nice.
These aren't the same as Battle Systems. These are more like Space Hulk doors except there's no fancy plastic clip. It's a gakky round piece of black plastic, with a slot on top of it for the card to go in. There's no trimming involved. Either the slot is too narrow for the card, or the card is too thick for the slot.
I de-carded (is that a word?) all my pieces (one box) yesterday and got to say that the card quality is as good as the '09 Space Hulk with the pieces cleanly punched and easy to remove without any tears as can happen. The artwork on the 'green' side is well done, the 'red' side though is really dark and difficult to make out the details. Worse though, the design is all so damned repetitive.... Sheets of the same corridors over and over and over...
Haven't tried fitting the door holders yet, will take care when / if I do...
Dark Severance wrote: From my experience and what I've learned with dealing with a lot of 'card' terrain like Battle Systems that first test dry fit. If the dry fit is too snug, don't force it, trim the card with a blade. Then once the fit is good seal with superglue to make it firm and hard like plastic, then you never have to worry about tearing. It also greatly increases the life of the boards. I do these with my cardboard tokens as well from any board game these days. With X-Wing I highlighted the edges first with a paint sharpie, then sealed them with superglue so they look really nice.
That idea is inspired will try that.
How do you get the predators moving about the board secretly, and only hunting according to their own code? Or the aliens coming out from absolutely no-where, but utterly lethal?
Pacific The wargames rules seem like a nice idea, but not sure how possible its going to be to get the 'feel' of the movies into a wargame. How do you get the predators moving about the board secretly, and only hunting according to their own code? Or the aliens coming out from absolutely no-where, but utterly lethal?
In the Kryomek wargame you had counters both representing actual monsters and blank ones, so the controlling player could move tokens around and it created tension, they could try that option with the Preds, as well as Trophy taking. Would give some feel, but they could go with the books and graphic novels style of games.
These aren't the same as Battle Systems. These are more like Space Hulk doors except there's no fancy plastic clip. It's a gakky round piece of black plastic, with a slot on top of it for the card to go in. There's no trimming involved. Either the slot is too narrow for the card, or the card is too thick for the slot.
That's odd. My doors fit quite nicely into the plastic holders. Do you have an accurate way to measure the thickness of the door card (calipers)?
Got the infants and stalkers mostly painted for our first game on Saturday. Still need to do a bit of detail and something with the bases... (BTW I prefer chamfered bases.)
