My usual opponent always uses these lists. I play Necrons, and he always beats me with Unbound and solo vehicle stupidity.
(Running vehicles in seperate squads and putting them next to each other prevents high RPM AV weapons from doing damage to more than one with a single volley)
He allies ALL THE THINGS together.
His Lists:
Tau:
Fireblade, 2 Hammerheads, Riptide, 3 Solo Piranhas, 36 fire warriors, 3 Suits (One proxied as Farsight), all drones are marker drones.
Orks:
Solo Kans, Deff Dreads and Lootas. As many KMBs as possible.
Chaos:
Just about everything.
GK List
HQ- Terminator Librarian
-ML3 (Rolling on Telepathy for invisibility)
Troops- Strike Squad (10x GKs) with 2x Psilencers and 2x Daemonhammers
Purifier Squad w/ Psilencer
Elites Paladins w/ Psycannon, Nemesis Banner, 5 Daemonhammers, Apothecary, and Land Raider.
Librarian and Paladins are in Land Raider together.
Heavy Support Dreadknight w/ Heavy Psycannon and DOOMHAMMER.
SGTPozy wrote: It's hard to beat IoM ally shenanigans as Xenos as we lack a battle brother ally (except for space pansies).
Gauss is probably your best bet against his baneblade and maybe spam flyers?
The only way to beat IoM cheese (especially Grey Knight cheese) is through using your own cheese.
Tried Flyer spam last game. I almost got wiped as soon as the game started, any unit that dropped out of the flyers was instagibbed by tons of pie plates, and the Flyers couldn't do anything to AV14.
The only other thing that I could suggest would be going going unbound yourself and ally in some stuff. Get some Tau allies as they're allies of convenience (I believe), as although they aren't upper tier anymore they do work well against Grey Knights and mech heavy lists +through deep striking fusion blaster suits).
Or another option is to do what most other IoM players do and ally in an Imperial Knight or two.
The way to beat him is to play Maelstrom missions, take plenty of troops in transports, preferably Nightscythes since he has no anti-flyer. Stay Battle-forged, so that your troops get Objective Secured. You don't need to kill the enemy, you just need to score more victory points than him. Play to the objectives all the time.
Oh, and also in the game I played there was only one peice of terrain and he wouldn't let me place any more. All of my terrain is at his house. Please help.
Verviedi wrote: Oh, and also in the game I played there was only one peice of terrain and he wouldn't let me place any more. All of my terrain is at his house. Please help.
Tell him to go feth him self because thats bullgak.
one person having full control of terrain placement is just asking for trouble
Verviedi wrote: Oh, and also in the game I played there was only one peice of terrain and he wouldn't let me place any more. All of my terrain is at his house. Please help.
Why didn't you start with this in the first place. This is a huge problem
Verviedi wrote: Oh, and also in the game I played there was only one peice of terrain and he wouldn't let me place any more. All of my terrain is at his house. Please help.
Why didn't you start with this in the first place. This is a huge problem
Yeah this is "stop playing him and find better opponents" territory
Verviedi wrote: Oh, and also in the game I played there was only one peice of terrain and he wouldn't let me place any more. All of my terrain is at his house. Please help.
Why didn't you start with this in the first place. This is a huge problem
Yeah this is "stop playing him and find better -Friends-" territory
Verviedi wrote: Oh, and also in the game I played there was only one peice of terrain and he wouldn't let me place any more. All of my terrain is at his house. Please help.
Why didn't you start with this in the first place. This is a huge problem
Yeah this is "stop playing him and find better -Friends-" territory
Doing this would bring my net total of friends who play 40k to 0.
Also, whenever I ask for more LOS blocking terrain because Gunline Tau are broken on open fields, he just says I'm whining because he can beat me.
Verviedi wrote: Oh, and also in the game I played there was only one peice of terrain and he wouldn't let me place any more. All of my terrain is at his house. Please help.
Why didn't you start with this in the first place. This is a huge problem
Yeah this is "stop playing him and find better -Friends-" territory
Doing this would bring my net total of friends who play 40k to 0. Also, whenever I ask for more LOS blocking terrain because Gunline Tau are broken on open fields, he just says I'm whining because he can beat me.
I'm aware of this. My FLGS is a GW with about 3 regular gamers. The nearest independent is a dingy craphole. Every other store is ~45 minutes away.
You are not sub 17" and have access to a motor vehicle right? 45 min isnt that bad.. and a local Geedubs arnt that bad ether so long as you are not rocking 3rd parties or actively trying to provoke them.
I'm aware of this.
My FLGS is a GW with about 3 regular gamers.
The nearest independent is a dingy craphole.
Every other store is ~45 minutes away.
You are not sub 17" and have access to a motor vehicle right?
45 min isnt that bad.. and a local Geedubs arnt that bad ether so long as you are not rocking 3rd parties or actively trying to provoke them.
He's a tool... Shake that dude off your friends list and take the time to connect with the 3 at the store... Use the down time to paint or assemble more stuff and even make some terrain. Playing against an donkey-cave like that isn't productive or fun so ditch him and enjoy the other great elements of this game while you locate better opponents.
Thick Styrofoam sheet.
Use steak-knife to cut (Hot wire is easier).
Sand, gouge, hack as you see fit.
Spray with watered down white glue. <to prevent primer melting it... unless you want it to!>
Let dry.
Prime as you wish.
Spray or smear on glue where you wish.
Drop on flocking.
Dust off excess.
Done! Nice happy terrain hill or canyon bit...
Repeat!!
Verviedi wrote: Any actual terrain making or tactical ideas?
Terrain Oh god the amount of stuff you can do on the cheap. it depends on how much work you are willing to put into it. just look at some of the infinity stuff
Also you should just paint your stuff in your spare time. school properly, get a job, get a car, go drive to whatever FLG you want to and ditch this foo.
Kinda painful when a person will pass judgment on what is "crap".
He better accept a black-primed shoebox as far as I am concerned (Make sure it is Nike or something so it is not "crap").
I can only go to GW on weekends and he usually asks to go with me.
Go to GW and don't tell him that you're going. After reading through all these posts, this guy you're talking about sounds hostile and obnoxious.
Also you mentioned that he doesn't want "Crap Terrain", all I can say is what the heck!? Homemade terrain is awesome. I make mine out of styrofoam leftover from shipped items. Carve it, build it up, paint it, use it! Or as others mentioned, feel free to use cardboard or any other material you find suitable.
All in all... this guy does not sound like a nice person to play against. I'd recommend starting to go to some public tables and play against other people.
Verviedi wrote: Ok, he said if I had actual terrain I could use it. He just doesn't want to use crap terrain.
Yeah, this guy is definitely a douchebag. As far as terrain goes: this was made in about an hour with sprue, a hot glue gun and a box I stole from work:
While it may not look as pretty as a GW terrain kit, it serves the same purpose and if he refuses it I'd ditch him lol.
Thanks! I think OPs friend is TFG through and through. I played with a few of those types when I first started, maybe that's why it get's me so aggravated. If he has to bully a newer player into playing a skewed game to get a win, he's already mentally conceded the win to OP, at least IMO.
Im sure we can point out that in reality he is ruining the game not only for himself but also for you. winning purely because you have setup an auto win situation isn't really winning, fun nor does it make you a better player.
Do what the other poster suggested, swap armies, swap armies for 10 games. then once you've made him cry over and over, tell him that together your going to make a real board, use cardboard boxes, bits of plastic bottles, whatever. Just show him that a real game is 100x more fun, and engaging.
The game your playing; you may as well just take 2 dice, roll, see who gets highest and declare them the winner. with no terrain its just a dice off, and why dice off with hundreds of dice over 3-4 hours, when you can do it in 10 seconds?
The Paladins were invisible and Hammerhanded the whole game. I didn't want to say that every turn.
Deployment:
He went first. Paladins and Libby were in Land Raider.
Turn 1-
Lootas fired and killed the Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer on the Purplenator squad. Things moved. Not much happened.
My Purplenator squad moved out of the Lootas LOS, and the Land Raider moved towards the enemy line.
Turn 2 and 3
The Land Raider arrived from reserves and fired at my Land Raider, doing nothing. The Berzerkers moved, and the Purifiers DSed in near a building.
Everything Deep Struck. My Tactical Terminators killed 2 Strike Squad GKs, and my Assault terminators ran to spread out. My Land Raider advanced and fired it's Lascannons, stunning the enemy LR.
The Khorne Berzerkers moved around my Assault Terminators, the Land Raider moved (I know it was stunned, but didn't call him on this because I was preoccupied with asking a fluff question to the manager) and the Paladins disembarked. The Land Raider shot my Land Raider with both of it's Lascannons, doing 2 HP and immobilising it. Everything shot, killing 5 Assault Termies, and then all units but the Lootas charged the Assault Termies. The Assault Termies killed a single Paladin, but died horribly. The Strike Squad charged the Tactical Termies, killing 3 and taking 9 casualties.
My 5-man unit of Assault Termies charged the Purifiers, killing 4. My Purplenators shot at some random unit (Can't remember), and the Tactical Termies finally killed the last Strike Squad guy. The Land Raider fired at the enemy Land Raider, doing nothing.
Turn 4-
Paladins charged the Assault Termies, wiping them out and taking 1 casualty. The Chaos Terminators charged my Purplenators. Mutually assured destruction happened, both units died.
The Zerkers and Dreadknight moved towards the Tactical Terminators.
My Tactical Terminators shot at the Berzerkers, killing 1.
Turn 5-
I said GG and painted for 2 hours.
What I learned-
Don't take Terminators
Don't let opponent use CTA allies.
DayOne916123 wrote: He's a tool... Shake that dude off your friends list and take the time to connect with the 3 at the store... Use the down time to paint or assemble more stuff and even make some terrain. Playing against an donkey-cave like that isn't productive or fun so ditch him and enjoy the other great elements of this game while you locate better opponents.
I agree with this.
If you can connect with the people at your local GW, odds are pretty damned good that the ones who can drive (and own a car) would be willing to pick you up once a week for game night, or take turns doing it. You could also go to the "Looking for game" forums and try there. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few players super close to you that you didn't know about.
DayOne916123 wrote: He's a tool... Shake that dude off your friends list and take the time to connect with the 3 at the store... Use the down time to paint or assemble more stuff and even make some terrain. Playing against an donkey-cave like that isn't productive or fun so ditch him and enjoy the other great elements of this game while you locate better opponents.
I agree with this.
If you can connect with the people at your local GW, odds are pretty damned good that the ones who can drive (and own a car) would be willing to pick you up once a week for game night, or take turns doing it. You could also go to the "Looking for game" forums and try there. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few players super close to you that you didn't know about.
The carpooling is not an option. There is no Game Night, and there are not many people there to warrant this.
Definately not anyone I would want to burden with picking up an almost stranger that lives 30 minutes away and taking them to the game store to play a game.
CTA and desperate allies have to roll a die before doing anything in a phase. If a one is rolled, they can't act that phase because they arepreoccuped with making sure they aren't getting stabbed in the back... Just like you have been playing against this joker. Also, CTA can't be deployed w/in 12" of each other.
Welp I'm an idiot, that's what I get for not using the Aegis for over 2 years.
EDIT: wait a minute this table... and background of the pics... it looks familiar. I remember seeing something similar except it was about a player who was playing against a Tau who refused to set up LoS-blocking terrain.
The aegis can set up however it wants to, as long as each piece is touching at least one other piece. Nowhere in the rules does it say it has to be set up so that it makes one line.
Pyeatt wrote: Rulebook and codex man... you gotta read them
I do, but I don't usually use allies...
Also, he doesn't own a rulebook, he says it's too expensive and since other people have them he doesn't need them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quickjager wrote: Welp I'm an idiot, that's what I get for not using the Aegis for over 2 years.
EDIT: wait a minute this table... and background of the pics... it looks familiar. I remember seeing something similar except it was about a player who was playing against a Tau who refused to set up LoS-blocking terrain.
Same advice as before, don't play him. Use the player finder to get some games where you live.
I know almost all the rules, except for that one and maybe some stuff about buildings.
I view looking at stuff like that when you'll never use it like reading a Codex for an army nobody in the store has.
^at the very least, use this. Ebay some starter set rules. Having a ridiculous unbound army is too expensive, but $25 for a starter rulebook is too much. C'mon man, leave this guy behind before he drives you out of the hobby.
I know almost all the rules, except for that one and maybe some stuff about buildings.
I view looking at stuff like that when you'll never use it like reading a Codex for an army nobody in the store has.
No offense, but that point of view clearly doesn't stand, and the way you're saying it is quite.. prickish.
"I know almost all the rules.. except some stuff about buildings, oh and that one."
I highly doubt this is the only non-building rule in the entire BRB that you don't know, and despite what you may have thought about rules you wouldn't use, it clearly came into play. No one is saying memorize the whole BRB so you can write it down on a sheet of paper, but glancing at bits as a game is getting setup ("Oh you're using allies? Let me just take a quick gander at the allies matrix and rules, just to make sure there's nothing I'm missing.") will only help you, never harm.
EDIT: To restate my earlier point, and to once-again spout off what other people are say: Lose him and use the tools provided / networking to find some other people to play with. You say that "carpooling is not an option" and I ask why - probably parents honestly. But even without that, wargamers tend to be a pretty friendly bunch. You could probably find some people in short driving distance who'd be willing to pop in / meet you somewhere neutral in order to get a few games off here and there... If you'd only stop telling us why you can't play with anyone but that guy, and actually dedicated some time to trying to find people to play with other than that guy, you may get surprisingly good results.
^at the very least, use this. Ebay some starter set rules. Having a ridiculous unbound army is too expensive, but $25 for a starter rulebook is too much. C'mon man, leave this guy behind before he drives you out of the hobby.
I printed FAQs and got "The Internet Is Lies"ed until the GW store manager said that they were 100% true. There is no way he would let me use Arbitorian's stuff.
Is there at least a way to rehabilitate him?
He is literally my only personal friend and has been for ~7 years.
Do what others suggested, demand army swap for a dozen games. Either demand he buys a rulebook, or buy him one for Christmas. At the end of the day, losing a friend over game is a fething slowed way to lose a friend. If he refuses to play the game in an honest and fun way, just don't play the game.
^at the very least, use this. Ebay some starter set rules. Having a ridiculous unbound army is too expensive, but $25 for a starter rulebook is too much. C'mon man, leave this guy behind before he drives you out of the hobby.
I printed FAQs and got "The Internet Is Lies"ed until the GW store manager said that they were 100% true. There is no way he would let me use Arbitorian's stuff.
Is there at least a way to rehabilitate him?
He is literally my only personal friend and has been for ~7 years.
If hes that close of a friend, buy a rulebook, and let him use it during games. Don't be a doormat to his cheating just cause he's a buddy, and maybe do some non-40k stuff together. Who knows, maybe his gaming attitude will be different if you guys grab lunch beforehand?
A) He complains about terrain not looking right but doesn't even prime his models? Demand all models used are fully painted. BAM.
B) Does he actually own codexes for anything? I doubt it if he doesn't have a rulebook. No codex=can't play because he doesn't actually know the rules. As for the rulebook, I highly doubt he knows the rules unless he's playing elsewhere too.
C) Unless he has invisibility active that turn, his paladins should get mulched by your terminators in CC since they both go at the same initiative but his have no invul (also the apothecary would be worthless since FNP doesn't work on instant death).
D) Don't tell him what army you're bringing anymore. "Surprise" him every time.
E) Is he actually even a decent friend? If he treats you like that, it may be worth asking yourself that. I've seen way too many people stuck with a friend or friendgroup because it was easier to stay with them than go, but who were dragged down terribly by them.
C) Unless he has invisibility active that turn, his paladins should get mulched by your terminators in CC since they both go at the same initiative but his have no invul (also the apothecary would be worthless since FNP doesn't work on instant death).
I know almost all the rules, except for that one and maybe some stuff about buildings. I view looking at stuff like that when you'll never use it like reading a Codex for an army nobody in the store has.
Just a quick note; if neither of you know the rules your not really playing 40k. If you don't know the rules that are going to be a major impact in your game (in this instance the allies rule) then you can't really complain about him being the way he is as neither of you are taking the time to understand the game. But saying that its quite obvious he's being a bit of a douche.
1) he has all these armies and models..... but cant afford a rulebook? yeh.... right.... bullpoo 2) He is proxying, lootas? painboy? I saw a mumbojumbo of orks in a unit, unpainted, thats fine for a few games, heck its fine forever. But not when he's simply ruining the hobby for you. Tell him he can't proxy, make him make a list with what he actually has, not only will that limit his his WAAC powers, but he'll be forced to actually think about his units; instead of grabbing cheese, cheese, cheese. 3) None of his stuff is painted? tell him can only play whats painted, then when he can't actually play any longer adjust the parameters of your gaming relationship so you have more power and control over the fact he is exploiting you. 4) Read up on your rules. just spend a little time here and there. You need to be actively aware in your games, start by rules lawyering him, pick him up on his mistakes. Allies rules, moving a stunned LR... and im sure all the other horrendous rules hes abusing and making up. In honesty it actually sounds like hes actively cheating, or simply knows none of the actual rules. In general, the problem will be if he's cheating, he won't stop, ever. Even if he got a rule book i have a feeling he'd simply continue where he can, because winning is whats important to him, beyond your friendship; that much is clear.
And most importantly 1) Help yourself! We can come on this forum every day, every week, explain what rules you missed, explain why he couldn't do X or Y, but in reality, nothing will change unless you make moves to change them. There has been plenty of good advice here on how to find new gamers, how to suggest he changes and how to have an enjoyable game. Work with it
2) Next game, dont bring any models, bring a box of cheese. Some stilton, cheddar and maybe some pamasean. Put them in your deployment zone and when he asks what they are tell him there your Imperial Knights, or your wave spam list, whatever you want your flavour of cheese to be. When he complains; ask him where his rulebook is. If he don't want to play then say lets go home. When he does play, Cheat, lie and annhilate him, tell him that your D str weapons actually allow you to bring a mallet and hit his units, whatever breaks is whats dead. When he complains ask him to prove its not a rule with "his" rulebook. At the end of the game as he sits there crying, casually walk over to him, push him to his knees, gently cup his chin and lift his head so you can see his salty tears streaming down his face and tell him he is now your she-dog and this is his life from now on.
troa wrote: Several things, so just listing them out.
A) He complains about terrain not looking right but doesn't even prime his models? Demand all models used are fully painted. BAM.
B) Does he actually own codexes for anything? I doubt it if he doesn't have a rulebook. No codex=can't play because he doesn't actually know the rules. As for the rulebook, I highly doubt he knows the rules unless he's playing elsewhere too.
C) Unless he has invisibility active that turn, his paladins should get mulched by your terminators in CC since they both go at the same initiative but his have no invul (also the apothecary would be worthless since FNP doesn't work on instant death).
D) Don't tell him what army you're bringing anymore. "Surprise" him every time.
E) Is he actually even a decent friend? If he treats you like that, it may be worth asking yourself that. I've seen way too many people stuck with a friend or friendgroup because it was easier to stay with them than go, but who were dragged down terribly by them.
A)This will not work. This person will never paint a single model. His excuses are the following:
1. Unpainted looks better than painted because it is clean and all the detail is exposed. Paint just makes the model messy.
2. Painting isn't fun, and I don't have any money to get them painted.
Saying all models must be painted will just screw things up and make him mad.
B) He has the Codexes.
C) The Assault Termies got mulched by the Berzerkers, and Dreadknight first. There was only one left at I1.
D) Good idea, and I will do it. I <3 opague boxes.
E) Usually. I go to his house and we play CoD or something a lot.
A)This will not work. This person will never paint a single model. His excuses are the following:
1. Unpainted looks better than painted because it is clean and all the detail is exposed. Paint just makes the model messy.
2. Painting isn't fun, and I don't have any money to get them painted.
Saying all models must be painted will just screw things up and make him mad.
its fair enough that you can say, ok I understand painting isn't required, but then alteast say 'look ..insert name...., I get you dont want to paint and so forth, that it takes alot of itme, but in that respect can you alteast sit down with me and go through the rules?
Last game we missed a couple important rules, they didn't "make" you win, but if were gona play this game we need to play it right. Would you play CoD against a guy who could walk through walls and would constantly headshot you? You'd leave and find another game. I currently feel like I don't want to play anymore because we aren't playing fairly, im not blaming you, but in general we both need to take a little more time so that we can truly get into this game and get it right.
how do you feel about this ....insert name....?'
Every human being is capable of a calm and open discussion, but if he really gets mad even when you are in your calmest most flexible mood, in honesty, he may be your only friend, but you are worth more than that. In school from like age like 11-17 I had 2 best friends, we walked to school together, we walked back, we played together every lunch with another 2-3 people. Yet outside of school they never once (maybe like 2-3 times in total) asked to do anything with me, but they hungout together almost everyday at one of their houses; which was less than 200m from mine. When I hit 6th form (school from like 17-18) I decided I wanted a change, I simply went out and talked to other people, someone who became a good friend hadn't even realised id been at that same school with him for 6 years I was that unknown. I now have an amazing friends group, it changed a few times, but i've never looked back. I now have more friends than I can imagine and with my GF its actually difficult to see them all.
All in all, be yourself and push for what you want, don't simply stick yourself with the idea that your current situation is the only situation.
Personally I don't think his army is that cheesy. In fact it's very beatable. You must be getting sucked into shooting at invisible paladins. DO NOT DO THIS. I don't know a lot about necrons but I know an army with heavy wraiths would crush this army. Get into CC with those vehicals and then you have nothing to worry about.
My army would be 10 times cheesier at this point lvl.
Id have 2 imperial knights 3 dreadknights and a draigo star.
OP, maybe I should make this gaming relationship a bit more clear based on my own experience:
The time you beat him 2-3 games in a row is probably when you will not hear from him again. Until that time, he will cheese, mis-read the rules and out and out cheat to prevent that.
You are only there to feed his ego, when you no longer perform that function it will be over.
Look up "narcissist" it may provide some clarity:http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.ca/
My "friend" I learned this stuff from started printing out pictures of models and pasting them to hardboard to "try stuff out" that became his stock army.
I threatened to plunk down a picture/hardboard Warhound one day, he almost lost his mind... I told him I had access to a 4' long printer so I could go bigger...
Funny how it was OK for him to run to a lower standard but my stuff had to look awesome.
Just look at what he gives himself permission to do and do the same, that at least can provide some amusement until the fateful day arrives.
It is rather maddening to hear you submit yourself to this person, you are enabling him, basically rewarding him for bad behavior because you are letting it happen so it must be OK (and he thinks you deserve what you get if you do not stand up for yourself).
I am sure the person seems nice enough usually, try taking a break and socialize only, pursue hobby stuff, no gaming for a while and see him start gnashing at the teeth for his next "win" fix.
If this person is a proper "friend" time spent doing stuff other than competitive gaming should be enough right?
Xenomancers wrote: Personally I don't think his army is that cheesy. In fact it's very beatable. You must be getting sucked into shooting at invisible paladins. DO NOT DO THIS. I don't know a lot about necrons but I know an army with heavy wraiths would crush this army. Get into CC with those vehicals and then you have nothing to worry about.
My army would be 10 times cheesier at this point lvl.
Id have 2 imperial knights 3 dreadknights and a draigo star.
I know who I'm not playing against if I encounter them.
Xenomancers wrote: Personally I don't think his army is that cheesy. In fact it's very beatable. You must be getting sucked into shooting at invisible paladins. DO NOT DO THIS. I don't know a lot about necrons but I know an army with heavy wraiths would crush this army. Get into CC with those vehicals and then you have nothing to worry about.
My army would be 10 times cheesier at this point lvl.
Id have 2 imperial knights 3 dreadknights and a draigo star.
I know who I'm not playing against if I encounter them.
Is it QuickJager? He's the poster child of Grey Knight related cheese.
Xenomancers wrote: Personally I don't think his army is that cheesy. In fact it's very beatable. You must be getting sucked into shooting at invisible paladins. DO NOT DO THIS. I don't know a lot about necrons but I know an army with heavy wraiths would crush this army. Get into CC with those vehicals and then you have nothing to worry about.
My army would be 10 times cheesier at this point lvl.
Id have 2 imperial knights 3 dreadknights and a draigo star.
I know who I'm not playing against if I encounter them.
Is it QuickJager? He's the poster child of Grey Knight related cheese.
Who's worrying? Also, you're cheese so that's cannibalism.
Automatically Appended Next Post: The relationship between the OP and his opponent is a bit like Quckjager's and mine; we both think that the other can be a sometimes, but we still love each other!
Verviedi, this has got to be like the fourth thread you started about this guy. First there was the Tyranids/Tau thread, then another thread about replacing your army because he wouldn't play your Tyranids again after you got a second Flyrant and started beating him, then there was the "internet is lies" thread where you told us he said all formations are fake, and now you have your new Crons and he just plays the most unfluffy, spamtastic list imaginable (Berzerkers, Grey Knights and Lootas... together? WTF?).
I know you are still in high school, and I had a hard time finding good friends to play against in high school too. But seriously, you are really setting yourself up for continued disappointment here. It's time to move on - there are definitely other gamers out there, most of whom are cool folks who like to meet new opponents. I'm sure there are even a few in your area. Try posting on the local GW's facebook page or something, and resist the urge to let him come along. If he's stalking your facebook feed and calls you on it, just be like "dude, I thought it would be fun if we did some 2v2, but we need some fresh blood, so I thought it might be best if I go on this one alone."
Asmodas wrote: Verviedi, this has got to be like the fourth thread you started about this guy. First there was the Tyranids/Tau thread, then another thread about replacing your army because he wouldn't play your Tyranids again after you got a second Flyrant and started beating him, then there was the "internet is lies" thread where you told us he said all formations are fake, and now you have your new Crons and he just plays the most unfluffy, spamtastic list imaginable (Berzerkers, Grey Knights and Lootas... together? WTF?).
I know you are still in high school, and I had a hard time finding good friends to play against in high school too. But seriously, you are really setting yourself up for continued disappointment here. It's time to move on - there are definitely other gamers out there, most of whom are cool folks who like to meet new opponents. I'm sure there are even a few in your area. Try posting on the local GW's facebook page or something, and resist the urge to let him come along. If he's stalking your facebook feed and calls you on it, just be like "dude, I thought it would be fun if we did some 2v2, but we need some fresh blood, so I thought it might be best if I go on this one alone."
Perhaps its time to put the toys away, work out, get a chick and go party. dont miss out on that childhood
Asmodas wrote: Verviedi, this has got to be like the fourth thread you started about this guy. First there was the Tyranids/Tau thread, then another thread about replacing your army because he wouldn't play your Tyranids again after you got a second Flyrant and started beating him, then there was the "internet is lies" thread where you told us he said all formations are fake, and now you have your new Crons and he just plays the most unfluffy, spamtastic list imaginable (Berzerkers, Grey Knights and Lootas... together? WTF?).
I know you are still in high school, and I had a hard time finding good friends to play against in high school too. But seriously, you are really setting yourself up for continued disappointment here. It's time to move on - there are definitely other gamers out there, most of whom are cool folks who like to meet new opponents. I'm sure there are even a few in your area. Try posting on the local GW's facebook page or something, and resist the urge to let him come along. If he's stalking your facebook feed and calls you on it, just be like "dude, I thought it would be fun if we did some 2v2, but we need some fresh blood, so I thought it might be best if I go on this one alone."
Perhaps its time to put the toys away, work out, get a chick and go party. dont miss out on that childhood
Haha, exactly! Life is too short, and 40K is something that you can always come back to in the "extended adolescence" that some folks for some reason call "being an adult."
Asmodas wrote: Verviedi, this has got to be like the fourth thread you started about this guy. First there was the Tyranids/Tau thread, then another thread about replacing your army because he wouldn't play your Tyranids again after you got a second Flyrant and started beating him,
Is that how that ended? Oh dear, he got the flyrant started to win and the dude made 'you' change army... oh my days if that was the case I dunno what to say.
Asmodas wrote: Verviedi, this has got to be like the fourth thread you started about this guy. First there was the Tyranids/Tau thread, then another thread about replacing your army because he wouldn't play your Tyranids again after you got a second Flyrant and started beating him,
Is that how that ended? Oh dear, he got the flyrant started to win and the dude made 'you' change army... oh my days if that was the case I dunno what to say.
Further evidence of what I said: when he starts beating the guy there are two choices: change and start losing again and all is well, or the guy drops him like a hot rock since his ego is getting pummeled.
Asmodas wrote: Verviedi, this has got to be like the fourth thread you started about this guy. First there was the Tyranids/Tau thread, then another thread about replacing your army because he wouldn't play your Tyranids again after you got a second Flyrant and started beating him,
Is that how that ended? Oh dear, he got the flyrant started to win and the dude made 'you' change army... oh my days if that was the case I dunno what to say.
Further evidence of what I said: when he starts beating the guy there are two choices: change and start losing again and all is well, or the guy drops him like a hot rock since his ego is getting pummeled.
Which is a shame because smooth, warm rocks are nice to hold against your cheek.
Relevant to the topic, I am selling my IG and possibly Necrons, depending on the viability of the new codex.
Is there any army that can wreck this guy? I am not really interested in Eldar or Tyranids, and Daemon are hard to paint.
I can't speak for him, but I've had some mental sighs reading this. The thing is, at this point, the answer to the question "How do I beat this?" is "You don't." When people pointed out that he was cheating, you explained how he cheated and the amount of effort to get him to stop, rather than work with suggested strategies to stop the cheating. When they said that playing with someone like that is a poor choice, you said he's your only choice.
There's two perspectives to this, the strategic and the social. From the social perspective, unless this person is doing amazing things for your happiness in other situations, he's not your friend. He's your bully. He puts you in a situation where he can socially smack you around, intimidates you into compliance, and keeps you in awe of his nonexistent armybuilding/WH40K tactical skills. If he's the only person you would qualify as a close personal friend, then at least one sigh is this: you don't have any close personal friends that you acknowledge. I sincerely hope that you have some people in your life-- even if they don't play Warhammer 40K and might tempt you away from the hobby (or at least into diversions of time)-- that you can build bridges with, because this sort of thing is going to have you keep asking 'why' then coming up with Reasons when people explain solutions that don't fit into continued association with your bully.
From the strategic, there is no strategy (other than "cheat more" or "beg Games Workshop Employees for rules that work only for you", I guess) that's going to win if you let him define the context under which you play. If he determines the terrain, the validity of most rules, how rules interact... if he "relies" on other people for the rules but then arbitrates how they can be used, if he can openly violate rules-- secret lists are not OK-- then he is going to win barring an absurd amount of bad luck, at which point he will tell you that it didn't count because it was just luck.
Of course, from the flipside to that, it sounds like this guy has never actually beaten you. Played without One Eye Open? Refused to permit table terrain? Refused to exchange sheets? Doesn't have the rules for reference? All of those fall under "cheating" which functionally is a forfeit. So at least your win record is actually the better, even if it doesn't feel that way.
To put it another way, Sun Tzu and other strategists did advise that under most circumstances you should try to place your forces in the most advantageous arrangement possible relative to terrain, your opponent in the weakest, to conceal from your enemy, etc. But Warhammer 40K assumes that both parties are meeting on more or less equal ground-- what's sometimes called Death Ground or Deadly Ground depending-- where there is no choice but to fight and neither side can claim an immediate, overwhelming advantage in the press of numbers, position, equipment, and so on-- or at least it tries to, legendary poorly thought out rules aside. If he's determining that context, your bully isn't playing Warhammer 40K (and hence, neither are you).
If you want to give him more chances, rather than seek out other friendships or perhaps even other hobbies (which can be depressing, expensive in both cash and energy, etc. so I can kind of understand), you have to take more control of the situation; functionally, you have to risk losing interaction with him to see whether or not he can become a friend rather than a bully. Start putting it bluntly in terms of game balance. If he wants to nix terrain as 'crap' - fine, but he gets to pay a 100 point handicap, either in his points lost or in twice that you gain per terrain piece less than 6 on the table. He wants to keep his list secret? Okay, that's a new special ability he's paying 100 points for or giving you 200 points for. If he's going to hobble you, the only fair thing, the only way you get any chance at all, is if there is some compensation. He doesn't want to "bother" with having the rules the way the rules, you know, require? Handicap, and you get a +1 to the dice off (which he can't dismiss) on arguing the rules. And the first time he says "the internet lies" or "I don't like playing it that way," you tell him you're taking 3 victory points plus one for every additional time after he tries that without actual rules to back it up.
If he won't? Or if he still tries to cheat? Then he not only isn't your friend, but he isn't going to be.
Verviedi wrote:
Which is a shame because smooth, warm rocks are nice to hold against your cheek.
Relevant to the topic, I am selling my IG and possibly Necrons, depending on the viability of the new codex.
Is there any army that can wreck this guy? I am not really interested in Eldar or Tyranids, and Daemon are hard to paint.
I can't speak for him, but I've had some mental sighs reading this. The thing is, at this point, the answer to the question "How do I beat this?" is "You don't." When people pointed out that he was cheating, you explained how he cheated and the amount of effort to get him to stop, rather than work with suggested strategies to stop the cheating. When they said that playing with someone like that is a poor choice, you said he's your only choice.
There's two perspectives to this, the strategic and the social. From the social perspective, unless this person is doing amazing things for your happiness in other situations, he's not your friend. He's your bully. He puts you in a situation where he can socially smack you around, intimidates you into compliance, and keeps you in awe of his nonexistent armybuilding/WH40K tactical skills. If he's the only person you would qualify as a close personal friend, then at least one sigh is this: you don't have any close personal friends that you acknowledge. I sincerely hope that you have some people in your life-- even if they don't play Warhammer 40K and might tempt you away from the hobby (or at least into diversions of time)-- that you can build bridges with, because this sort of thing is going to have you keep asking 'why' then coming up with Reasons when people explain solutions that don't fit into continued association with your bully.
From the strategic, there is no strategy (other than "cheat more" or "beg Games Workshop Employees for rules that work only for you", I guess) that's going to win if you let him define the context under which you play. If he determines the terrain, the validity of most rules, how rules interact... if he "relies" on other people for the rules but then arbitrates how they can be used, if he can openly violate rules-- secret lists are not OK-- then he is going to win barring an absurd amount of bad luck, at which point he will tell you that it didn't count because it was just luck.
Of course, from the flipside to that, it sounds like this guy has never actually beaten you. Played without One Eye Open? Refused to permit table terrain? Refused to exchange sheets? Doesn't have the rules for reference? All of those fall under "cheating" which functionally is a forfeit. So at least your win record is actually the better, even if it doesn't feel that way.
To put it another way, Sun Tzu and other strategists did advise that under most circumstances you should try to place your forces in the most advantageous arrangement possible relative to terrain, your opponent in the weakest, to conceal from your enemy, etc. But Warhammer 40K assumes that both parties are meeting on more or less equal ground-- what's sometimes called Death Ground or Deadly Ground depending-- where there is no choice but to fight and neither side can claim an immediate, overwhelming advantage in the press of numbers, position, equipment, and so on-- or at least it tries to, legendary poorly thought out rules aside. If he's determining that context, your bully isn't playing Warhammer 40K (and hence, neither are you).
If you want to give him more chances, rather than seek out other friendships or perhaps even other hobbies (which can be depressing, expensive in both cash and energy, etc. so I can kind of understand), you have to take more control of the situation; functionally, you have to risk losing interaction with him to see whether or not he can become a friend rather than a bully. Start putting it bluntly in terms of game balance. If he wants to nix terrain as 'crap' - fine, but he gets to pay a 100 point handicap, either in his points lost or in twice that you gain per terrain piece less than 6 on the table. He wants to keep his list secret? Okay, that's a new special ability he's paying 100 points for or giving you 200 points for. If he's going to hobble you, the only fair thing, the only way you get any chance at all, is if there is some compensation. He doesn't want to "bother" with having the rules the way the rules, you know, require? Handicap, and you get a +1 to the dice off (which he can't dismiss) on arguing the rules. And the first time he says "the internet lies" or "I don't like playing it that way," you tell him you're taking 3 victory points plus one for every additional time after he tries that without actual rules to back it up.
If he won't? Or if he still tries to cheat? Then he not only isn't your friend, but he isn't going to be.
It's not that you did something wrong, its that you keep asking if there is something to beat this guy?
What the above poster said; short story is you'll never beat this guy. So sell your armies, buy another army, spend even more time and effort into something you can't win.
Verviedi wrote:
Which is a shame because smooth, warm rocks are nice to hold against your cheek.
Relevant to the topic, I am selling my IG and possibly Necrons, depending on the viability of the new codex.
Is there any army that can wreck this guy? I am not really interested in Eldar or Tyranids, and Daemon are hard to paint.
I can't speak for him, but I've had some mental sighs reading this. The thing is, at this point, the answer to the question "How do I beat this?" is "You don't." When people pointed out that he was cheating, you explained how he cheated and the amount of effort to get him to stop, rather than work with suggested strategies to stop the cheating. When they said that playing with someone like that is a poor choice, you said he's your only choice.
There's two perspectives to this, the strategic and the social. From the social perspective, unless this person is doing amazing things for your happiness in other situations, he's not your friend. He's your bully. He puts you in a situation where he can socially smack you around, intimidates you into compliance, and keeps you in awe of his nonexistent armybuilding/WH40K tactical skills. If he's the only person you would qualify as a close personal friend, then at least one sigh is this: you don't have any close personal friends that you acknowledge. I sincerely hope that you have some people in your life-- even if they don't play Warhammer 40K and might tempt you away from the hobby (or at least into diversions of time)-- that you can build bridges with, because this sort of thing is going to have you keep asking 'why' then coming up with Reasons when people explain solutions that don't fit into continued association with your bully.
From the strategic, there is no strategy (other than "cheat more" or "beg Games Workshop Employees for rules that work only for you", I guess) that's going to win if you let him define the context under which you play. If he determines the terrain, the validity of most rules, how rules interact... if he "relies" on other people for the rules but then arbitrates how they can be used, if he can openly violate rules-- secret lists are not OK-- then he is going to win barring an absurd amount of bad luck, at which point he will tell you that it didn't count because it was just luck.
Of course, from the flipside to that, it sounds like this guy has never actually beaten you. Played without One Eye Open? Refused to permit table terrain? Refused to exchange sheets? Doesn't have the rules for reference? All of those fall under "cheating" which functionally is a forfeit. So at least your win record is actually the better, even if it doesn't feel that way.
To put it another way, Sun Tzu and other strategists did advise that under most circumstances you should try to place your forces in the most advantageous arrangement possible relative to terrain, your opponent in the weakest, to conceal from your enemy, etc. But Warhammer 40K assumes that both parties are meeting on more or less equal ground-- what's sometimes called Death Ground or Deadly Ground depending-- where there is no choice but to fight and neither side can claim an immediate, overwhelming advantage in the press of numbers, position, equipment, and so on-- or at least it tries to, legendary poorly thought out rules aside. If he's determining that context, your bully isn't playing Warhammer 40K (and hence, neither are you).
If you want to give him more chances, rather than seek out other friendships or perhaps even other hobbies (which can be depressing, expensive in both cash and energy, etc. so I can kind of understand), you have to take more control of the situation; functionally, you have to risk losing interaction with him to see whether or not he can become a friend rather than a bully. Start putting it bluntly in terms of game balance. If he wants to nix terrain as 'crap' - fine, but he gets to pay a 100 point handicap, either in his points lost or in twice that you gain per terrain piece less than 6 on the table. He wants to keep his list secret? Okay, that's a new special ability he's paying 100 points for or giving you 200 points for. If he's going to hobble you, the only fair thing, the only way you get any chance at all, is if there is some compensation. He doesn't want to "bother" with having the rules the way the rules, you know, require? Handicap, and you get a +1 to the dice off (which he can't dismiss) on arguing the rules. And the first time he says "the internet lies" or "I don't like playing it that way," you tell him you're taking 3 victory points plus one for every additional time after he tries that without actual rules to back it up.
If he won't? Or if he still tries to cheat? Then he not only isn't your friend, but he isn't going to be.
It's not that you did something wrong, its that you keep asking if there is something to beat this guy?
What the above poster said; short story is you'll never beat this guy. So sell your armies, buy another army, spend even more time and effort into something you can't win.
I've already played Nids and Eldar.
My collection situation is this:
Eldar- Sold (Fully Painted)
Tyranids- Almost Sold. I have 2 Flyrants, a ton of Gaunts, a Tervigon, and a Carnifex left if anyone wants to buy them. (Fully Painted)
IG- Selling as soon as I get the money from my buyers (Fully Painted)
Necrons- Selling if new dex is crap (Fully Painted)
SM- All-Terminator army. (Almost halfway to Fully Painted)
His collection:
SM- Sold a year ago (A quarter painted)
Tyranids- Sold (Primed and half-Painted)
Tau- Selling. Fire Warrior Focused (Unpainted)
GK- Nemesis Vanguard + Terminator Libby (Unpainted)
Orks- Unbound Walker Spam. (All Kans are solo so a single unit can't shoot at more than one) (Unpainted)
CSM- Mech/Random. (Unpainted)
Can a thread be locked solely on the basis of an OPs refusal to listen?
Seriously though, since you only seem to read or reply to bullet points I will try and sum up some of the better advice here which you are sorely in need of following:
1) You cannot beat your 'friend' if he cheats and refuses to play in the spirit of the game.
2) Buy rules + Read Rules + Use Rules in games = happy balanced (ish) gaming experience.
3) If he wont comply, there must be other people to play at your FLGS. It cannot survive on you and your 'friends' patronage alone
4) Stop selling armies. You will regret it in years to come, and they are not the basis of your Issues. You cannot buy victory over your 'friend'.
5) Don't be so obsessed with 'winning'. Your opponent probably thrives off your pain and anguish, and you will never love the hobby if it is all you care about.
Just for fun I am going to preempt your responses below:
Verviedi wrote: 1) He wont listen as he thinks the rulebook is lies from the interweb, and he doesn't like the format / cover art / page numbering / binding
2) Too expensive
3) Only three guys play at my FLGS on the day we go (presume Saturday?), and they don't like the way we smell
4) I am only selling the armies I cannot win with / are crap.
5) I'm not obsessed with winning.
To which, I will further respond in an effort to moves things along and save time / my breath / the will to live.
1) This is the only way to rehabilitate your 'friend' in 40K. If he still refuses, I would suggest that he may be entering foil hat territory and your efforts are futile
2) You have bought and sold whole fully-painted armies (something I have only managed once in 30 years!) but cannot afford to buy a second hand rulebook (or even go online and find a free copy.....)
3) Cannot possibly be true. More people must play / buy there or it would go under. Look on social media, post on the shop message board, go on Sunday or a weeknight and find other people. Give us the store name and we will find you more ways to meet other players.
4) If you cannot win with Eldar/Tyranids/Necrons then you might as well give up. Also, how do you know the new crons dex is crap? It is not even out and you have already decided to sell your army?
5) Yes you are, I too have read most of your posts (mainly for the lulz) and it is the one overriding theme that comes through in all of them. I suspect you might be WAAC player in the making, but it is not too late for you my son..... you can still turn away from the dark side...
If none of this works for you, then I think you need to take a break away from 40K of about... 10 years. That's what I did - I followed this advice when I was about 14
Desubot wrote: Perhaps its time to put the toys away, work out, get a chick and go party. dont miss out on that childhood
I packed all my models away in the attic, went out and got a life for 15 years - messed around in school, went to uni, traveled, met my wife, had a family - and then one day passed a FLGS and popped in for a bit of nostalgia. Two days later I was pulling all my (now very rare) rouge trader stuff out of the attic and was right back into it. The difference was that this time I was much more confident and comfortable with myself as a person and had no problem meeting other like minded people to play with. I remember the horror of playing against other immature pre-pubescent teens, and am forever glad I got away from it before it killed my love for the hobby. Perhaps you need to do likewise.
And if not, this really is the only real course of action left to you
Solar Shock wrote: Next game, dont bring any models, bring a box of cheese. Some stilton, cheddar and maybe some pamasean. Put them in your deployment zone and when he asks what they are tell him there your Imperial Knights, or your wave spam list, whatever you want your flavour of cheese to be. When he complains; ask him where his rulebook is. If he don't want to play then say lets go home. When he does play, Cheat, lie and annhilate him, tell him that your D str weapons actually allow you to bring a mallet and hit his units, whatever breaks is whats dead. When he complains ask him to prove its not a rule with "his" rulebook. At the end of the game as he sits there crying, casually walk over to him, push him to his knees, gently cup his chin and lift his head so you can see his salty tears streaming down his face and tell him he is now your she-dog and this is his life from now on.
I like Solar's reply.
Completely different note, but I am going to a Kill Team tourney on Saturday.
Any tips for Kill Team in general? I have no idea what to bring.
Iapedus wrote: Can a thread be locked solely on the basis of an OPs refusal to listen?
Seriously though, since you only seem to read or reply to bullet points I will try and sum up some of the better advice here which you are sorely in need of following:
I am reading everything in this thread.
1) You cannot beat your 'friend' if he cheats and refuses to play in the spirit of the game.
2) Buy rules + Read Rules + Use Rules in games = happy balanced (ish) gaming experience.
3) If he wont comply, there must be other people to play at your FLGS. It cannot survive on you and your 'friends' patronage alone
There are, but the problem is that they usually don't bring models. They usually just go there to paint and buy stuff.
There are some extremely good opponents, but they are rarely there.
4) Stop selling armies. You will regret it in years to come, and they are not the basis of your Issues. You cannot buy victory over your 'friend'.
This is true. I just desperately need money to pay off shipping costs/paints and do not need armies I don't use.
5) Don't be so obsessed with 'winning'. Your opponent probably thrives off your pain and anguish, and you will never love the hobby if it is all you care about.
I used to not care about winning or losing. I ran strictly fluff lists (I played Eldar in 5th), and never even went on wargames forums. But eventually, the press of losing over and over got to me. I was so sick of saying "GG, nice victory" every game, and seeing my opponent's ~entire army on the board after mine was tabled. I was sick of my opponent shouting "Winner!" After every single game.
My opponent played Tyranids at the time. He moved all of his MCs 12", never had the Codex, and instead used the Internet and "Memory" to find out his points and the back of the 5th ed rulebook to find out his stats. He never knew any of his special rules. I realize that he probably ran about 500 points more than I did. I had no LGS. The only options to play games were his folding white plastic tables or my kitchen table. They were so small that he was guaranteed to get into combat turn 2.
Eventually, I finally found a game store. I played a few games, and still lost every single time to Necrons and Chaos with my 5th ed Eldar dex.
I started the hobby in 2011. I gained my first win in late 2012. I beat my opponent's CSM army with my Guard.
Finally, I felt happy. I toned down my lost because my opponent said that game wasn't fun, and then kept losing. I never asked my opponent to to e down his list for fear of whining.
Eventually, the 6th edition Eldar uberddex came out. I was beaten again and again by illegal Ork walker armies (6 solo kans and 2 solo dreads) I spammed as many Bright Lances as possible, but my tanks always got wrecked by all of his Kustom Mega Blastas and his Kan close combat attacks, which he said were Str10 AP1. Even my Wraithknight couldn't hurt his army, as I had built him with a Suncannon and didn't want to proxy. Meanwhile, half of my opponent's army (10 lootas and 3 Kans) was empty bases.
I quit the game for a few months.
In August 2014, I bought the Tyranid Swarm and a Hive Tyrant. I asked my opponent for a friendly game. Walker Spam. I couldn't damage anything of his except with the Flyrant and was tabled. I played a game against a DE player and won objectives with my horde on turn 4. It felt so good, and when I shook hands after the match I had felt that I actually achieved something and worked hard for it.
My opponent started playing Tau. Next game I played with him, he brought his Tau.
The entire series of events involving his Tau are written here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/617853.page
I kept playing Nids, and finally bought another Flyrant with 4 weeks of savings. After the first game I played with dual Flyrants, he said playing against dual Flyrants wasn't fun, and said he wouldn't play against them any more.
I stopped playing for a few weeks, but went back to the game store eventually. I played a series of games against a guy named Kyle, who, I learned, was just starting with his Ultramarines.
I played 2 games against him. The first game was the shame of my career. I brought 3 Wave Serpents and a Wraithknight. He brought a foot army that didn't synergize well. I crushed him on turn 2. It was no fun whatsoever. I realised that I had turned into my opponent. Instead of saying GG, I asked to play a game using my Tyranids against him. It was a much more fair game, and he eventually won at the end. It was incredibly fun.
After the game, I gave him some tips. I told him about Chapter Master Smashfucker, and how he could kill Wraithknights. I told him about Crav Centurions, and how they were better for the points than Assault Centurions.
Now, he is running Grav Centurions and other units skillfully. I realised that instead of crushing his soul, saying GG, and not giving him help, I had actually helped him improve his game.
Then, my opponent started GKs. It was !!Fun!!. He rolled EVERY ONE OF HIS SAVES one by one, and as a result almost never failed one. He beat me again and again using them. I beat him once. For Christmas, I decided that I wanted a small Necron army. To fund it, since I was out of money from buying stuff, I began trading my stuff away. A Haruspexocrine and Mawloc for a Monolith and Ghost Ark. A Flyrant and Genestealers for a Night Scythe and Spyder. I amassed a mighty army, but let my Eldar and Tyranid armies rot. As I type this epic, my last Tyranids and Guard are up for sale.
(If any of you want to buy a Dakkafex and Tervigon, let me know )
Now, it is the end times. I posted this thread. In 2 days, I am going to my LGS to play Kill Team. May god have mercy on my soul.
Just for fun I am going to preempt your responses below:
1) This is the only way to rehabilitate your 'friend' in 40K. If he still refuses, I would suggest that he may be entering foil hat territory and your efforts are futile
2) You have bought and sold whole fully-painted armies (something I have only managed once in 30 years!) but cannot afford to buy a second hand rulebook (or even go online and find a free copy.....)
3) Cannot possibly be true. More people must play / buy there or it would go under. Look on social media, post on the shop message board, go on Sunday or a weeknight and find other people. Give us the store name and we will find you more ways to meet other players.
4) If you cannot win with Eldar/Tyranids/Necrons then you might as well give up. Also, how do you know the new crons dex is crap? It is not even out and you have already decided to sell your army?
5) Yes you are, I too have read most of your posts (mainly for the lulz) and it is the one overriding theme that comes through in all of them. I suspect you might be WAAC player in the making, but it is not too late for you my son..... you can still turn away from the dark side...
Tried WAAC. Nobody liked me and I still didn't win, so I started fluffing again.
If none of this works for you, then I think you need to take a break away from 40K of about... 10 years. That's what I did - I followed this advice when I was about 14
I probably will... It's no fun anymore...
Desubot wrote: Perhaps its time to put the toys away, work out, get a chick and go party. dont miss out on that childhood
I packed all my models away in the attic, went out and got a life for 15 years - messed around in school, went to uni, traveled, met my wife, had a family - and then one day passed a FLGS and popped in for a bit of nostalgia. Two days later I was pulling all my (now very rare) rouge trader stuff out of the attic and was right back into it. The difference was that this time I was much more confident and comfortable with myself as a person and had no problem meeting other like minded people to play with. I remember the horror of playing against other immature pre-pubescent teens, and am forever glad I got away from it before it killed my love for the hobby. Perhaps you need to do likewise.
I probably will stop gaming. It isn't fun playing against the same guy every game, and the constant crushing losses are horrible for my morale.
And if not, this really is the only real course of action left to you
Solar Shock wrote: Next game, dont bring any models, bring a box of cheese. Some stilton, cheddar and maybe some pamasean. Put them in your deployment zone and when he asks what they are tell him there your Imperial Knights, or your wave spam list, whatever you want your flavour of cheese to be. When he complains; ask him where his rulebook is. If he don't want to play then say lets go home. When he does play, Cheat, lie and annhilate him, tell him that your D str weapons actually allow you to bring a mallet and hit his units, whatever breaks is whats dead. When he complains ask him to prove its not a rule with "his" rulebook. At the end of the game as he sits there crying, casually walk over to him, push him to his knees, gently cup his chin and lift his head so you can see his salty tears streaming down his face and tell him he is now your she-dog and this is his life from now on.
I couldn't make somebody cry, nor destroy anyone's stuff... It just isn't in me...
you should have a talk with your friend not during the game.
Talk about how the game is supposed to be fun, and can be competitive but rules should be followed so its fun.
I would try and get other people involved playing, like team things.
I mean ultimately you have to have a sincere talk with this person, about the rules and fun. It's either a fun game for both people because rules are followed- or its fun for just one person because they cheat. Then based on their response you need to either not play this person again, or they agree to change somehow and play them.
I would reccomend playing some small points games like scenarios from various books that are not standard missions with them. Then go back to larger points if it works out.
Your friend is clearly the toxic element in your gaming experience. Either move on from him, or move on from the game until you find others to play.
Alternatively - ditch the friend, enjoy the painting and modeling aspect at home, play games against yourself and post them up on dakka so you can 'play with the community' through our C&C and review of your tactics (this last part is not so strange, even jy2 does it occasionally - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/627273.page)
I wish you all the best, but the time for endless discussion and anguish are over.
That guy sounds like a total ass using his logic I going to go to my games work shop and tell every tau that I could possibly lose to that, fire warriors are banned and if you complain you are just a loser and if you bring vehicles you are a terrible player and that includes any hq except the hq ethereal which shall not be named, then I'll only spam imperial knights and a reaver Titan
dragoonmaster101 wrote: That guy sounds like a total ass using his logic I going to go to my games work shop and tell every tau that I could possibly lose to that, fire warriors are banned and if you complain you are just a loser and if you bring vehicles you are a terrible player and that includes any hq except the hq ethereal which shall not be named, then I'll only spam imperial knights and a reaver Titan
Wait... What?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
Nice, Double usage of the GW stuff! all you need do now is throw in some use of the sprue and you are getting every bang for your buck possible interested and looking forward to seeing what ya make!
Just a quick question to OP with regard to unit placement, as a lot of those are not battle brothers (i believe some are desperate if not Come the apocalypse) are you making sure that he is abiding by the rules for model placement.
Even though he is unbound he still cannot ignore the allies’ matrix.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
Nice, Double usage of the GW stuff! all you need do now is throw in some use of the sprue and you are getting every bang for your buck possible interested and looking forward to seeing what ya make!
I've made some nob cybork fingers out of sprues. Not that it's a 100% material usage but at least he has fingers now. Lost original ones in a fall-off-table-holding-a-rokkit-pack accident
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
Nice, Double usage of the GW stuff! all you need do now is throw in some use of the sprue and you are getting every bang for your buck possible interested and looking forward to seeing what ya make!
I've made some nob cybork fingers out of sprues. Not that it's a 100% material usage but at least he has fingers now. Lost original ones in a fall-off-table-holding-a-rokkit-pack accident
Is it possible to melt down sprues and cast things with the plastic?
Automatically Appended Next Post: In case I play him again.
Is this list good?
I would highly advise against melting the plastics, especially if you're under 17. Those fumes are toxic (I'm pretttyyyy sure) and hot plastic can burn you bad. On top of that, no it's not really possible to melt plastic and cast things, it's better to use resin in molds and it can get expensive.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
Nice, Double usage of the GW stuff! all you need do now is throw in some use of the sprue and you are getting every bang for your buck possible interested and looking forward to seeing what ya make!
I've made some nob cybork fingers out of sprues. Not that it's a 100% material usage but at least he has fingers now. Lost original ones in a fall-off-table-holding-a-rokkit-pack accident
Is it possible to melt down sprues and cast things with the plastic?
Automatically Appended Next Post: In case I play him again.
Is this list good?
Anyone know where I can get tons of LOS blocking terrain for cheap? I don't have much money and suck at making terrain.
Find some paperhammer/ other paper based terrain online. preferably already coloured.
Colour print it onto card.
Cut out the shapes.
Go to your next game with a ton of foldable scenery.
Give half to your opponent to deploy one one side, and half for you to deploy on the other. 25% coverage with lots of LoS breakers provides a better game.
Real time talk - much like many others have done in this thread.
I was in a fairly similar situation when I was your age (started probably younger actually) and the friendship ended in a bad way - but far overdue for the friendship to end.
He was my friend in middle school 7th grade - and up thru my 1st year of college. Each year he got worse but my sense of loyalty wouldn't let me see it until the situation was far too toxic.
It started with Magic the Gathering and as we moved over to warhammer, he was the same guy that your friend is now.
Back then it was my Old One Eye he refused to play against (there were no flyrants at the time)
When I found other gamers and expanded the group, none of my new friends liked him. He was my friend longer and one of my first gamer friends so I defended him, even though everyone was right.
He had the "I have to win" attitude, even if it meant cheating and ruining the fun for others. If things started to go south for him in a game, he would just get mad, complain about how things were overpowered and quit playing.
Eventually this attitude spread to outside of gaming and into the rest of the friendship. I made the mistake of helping him out after he made some dumb decisions in life and well, in the end I am out of a good chunk of money that he refused to pay back and the friendship ending due to him just being a fething scum bag.
Some people never grow out of bad behavior, it gets worse as they don't suffer any consequences, or at least don't understand the consequences of their behavior.
If your friend refuses to see that he is ruining your fun just so he can be the one to win, it is time to find a higher quality of friend. It will save you a lot of headache and heartache in the future.
I feel like every point you needed to hear has been said multiple times, but if you still want to play warhammer40k with this guy you just need to bring your rulebook and literally look up every single thing he tries to do. Moving his squad? look up their unit type. Shooting you? look up the weapons stats. Shooting him? look up his saves/toughness. It will make the game take forever but i promise you that you will see hes breaking so many rules its not even funny. I started playing right when 6th edition came out with my only warbuddy having been playing/collecting since 3rd edition..
Literally everytime I tried to do something he would call me out and be like "whoa man you cant do that.. ive been playing for 10+ years and not a single person has done that. I don't believe you, showme the rules" I show him the rules allowing me to do it. "ohh... guess they changed that in 7th edition, you used to not be able to do that."
I had lost so many games to this "veteran" because i was apparently breaking the rules and let him talk me into not doing it. Eventually I just straight up told him ,"no you're wrong. feth off. look up the rules yourself i know im right." Now i'm the one reminding him of the rules most games. We are still friends and still game every week but the games are tense and sometimes frustrating with True Line of Sight and movement. I put my WAAC effort into my listbuilding/army synergy then just deploy on the battlefield "roleplaying" as my squads. He builds fluffy lists but goes WAAC on the table strategy wise. I can use this to my advantage though, literally every game involves him deploying in or going straight to the closest ruins and camping in there til turn 4 to cap objectives. So whenever we place Obj markers I always place mine outside the ruins in the open within 12" of the ruins. This stops him from putting an obj in some of the ruins.
OP your only chance to keep gaming with this guy is to bust out your rulebook for literally every single thing. Even deployment/scouts/when to actually roll for warlord traits.. EVERYTHINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG. I promise you that you will find out that you only knew half of the rule most of the time. Or that the rule specifically states "Models" or "Unit" The way the rules are worded are extremely important and can be misunderstood even as you are reading them.
Also you need to force him to write his list down before you play so he can't add/change gak on the fly. You should also go through each of your armies describing their wargear/available template/blasts/special rules. I can't tell you how many games I've just lost cause I didn't know a unit had Blasts or Stealth/Shrouded or some other special rule.
Everything the OP needs to hear about how to deal with his "friend" has been said (repeatedly), so I'll just add one observation. You're not playing WH40K with this guy. You're playing Calvin Ball. WH40K has actual rules, written down in books that have to be followed. Calvin Ball is just each player making up stuff as they go. Until you both start playing the same game, your experience won't change. Essentially, you're bringing a bowling ball to a tennis court and then wondering why you can't seem to knock any pins down.
Tau: Fireblade, 2 Hammerheads, Riptide, 3 Solo Piranhas, 36 fire warriors, 3 Suits (One proxied as Farsight), all drones are marker drones.
As a tau player can someone please explain how this list is OP?
His Lists are irrelevant, because he plays by his own rules. This thread is simply a giant repeat loop. Can we get it locked? Or agree it no longer needs comments? Not trying to be harsh to Verv, but many people have put alot of input in, taking quite a bit of time to write extensive posts and replies. Obviously if people want to spend time doing this then ofc it is your life and your time. But I am just trying to save you all a little of it I get that I am contributing to the giant loop as we speak, But after this I will be unsuscribing to make sure it dont appear in my list of threads I check
Verv, I loom forward to seeing your terrain, but make it a new topic in the P&M section when you get some pics. GL and best wishes
greytalon666 wrote: It's op because hge plays guard w/ 5+ armor, and his opponent refuses to play with terrain, so every wound is a dead guard.
I don't play Guard. I play SM Terminators and Necrons.
It does not matter what you play. You do not know the game other than what your cheater friend tells you.
This is a repeat thread. Your opponent has a crap list. There is nothing OP about it.
Stop playing him or accept the fact you are nothing more than a punching bag for him.
I acknowledge the last line.
Did I ever say "OP" ANYWHERE in this thread? I generally believe every -normal- unit except Riptides and Wave Serpents are balanced.
Jeez. It's threads like this that make me glad I play at a club with a whole bunch of members. If someone tried this here they would absolutely not get away with it.
the_scotsman wrote: Jeez. It's threads like this that make me glad I play at a club with a whole bunch of members. If someone tried this here they would absolutely not get away with it.
Quick question- how did you find a gaming club?
I just want to play against painted stuff.
People have told you this a couple of times, but you want this type of people out of your life. He's not your friend. He's an asshat. Go look for real friends, who are not asshats. If you meet a person like him in the future, stay away from that one too. Your life will be happier.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Verviedi wrote: Playing person again tomorrow. I will provide a battle report.
•Keeping my list secret
Just a note: you can't keep your list secret after the game started.
Sounds like he's got you by the short-and-curlies, and he knows it. He's not a friend; he's a user. It's up to you to decide whether sucking up his abuse is worth playing 40k.
OP's friend is a card carrying Narcissist, OP is the favored chew-toy. OP is also in denial thinking that somehow by magic he can win a game by following the rules while buddy has no such compulsion and will make it up as he goes. OP has no other friends and thinks he cannot get any so he is in thrall of a not very nice person.
This is called an ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP and our host here is in bad need of relationship therapy and needs to upgrade his feeling of self-worth.
It is TRULY a waste of time to discuss various tactics because the buddy is not playing the actual game, only his, which is rigged, which he will change, on a whim, because people let him.
Please let us end this with:
This is a toxic relationship that at the bare minimum needs a break.
Please look at spending time with people who share, respect, are polite and most of all have a sense of fun.
I cannot quite bring myself to call a MOD to close this because I must applaud the efforts of a few patient people genuinely trying to help: good stuff!! you know who you are.
Or he just spends moments of his life away from the computer.
The best advice I can give to the OP is to learn what the units that his opponent plays actually do. That way, you know what they can and can't do, and he can't cheat you. Borrow one of his codecies and give it a read, specifically what different wargear does. The allies matrix in the BRB, as has been stated, plays a huge role in his army comp. Come the Apocalypse allies can't even deploy within 12" of each other, which is a big time restriction.
Any time you feel like getting a win, use this line:
"Hey I wanted to try a list with some wraiths, but they're expensive so would you mind if I proxy them to see if the list is any good?" Proceed to faceroll him with 12-18 wraiths w/whip coils. Necron codex is great - you can play pretty much whatever you want and it's fine as long as you build a list around it.
I would also echo the call to stop selling models. If you can trade them, that works out fine because it's basically retail for retail, but selling them is really bad. You lose a ton of money and your collection keeps getting smaller. Always worth waiting to get new models. Save up and if you have no money, go make some. Even if you can't legally work yet, there are still tons of ways to make some money with your time.
I would worry less about which army is good and can beat his hodge podge army. All you really need are objective missions and fair terrain placement. Play what you love and don't apologize for it. If he thinks a unit or two is OP, maybe he's right. Flyrants may be appropriately costed (FYI I don't think they are) but even if they are, they are just so versatile and durable. But if you love a certain army, play it. When he says he doesn't want to play this or that, use his own logic against him - "I don't have the money to get a bunch of new models right now". It's the truth, and it sounds like he has a much larger collection than you do. Plus, he really shouldn't be worrying since Broadsides and Riptides eat Flyrants and Flyrants just can't kill them effectively. But that's another thing for another time.
Best of luck with this guy, and hopefully you're able to connect with some other players.
There a lot of good options mentioned on here so far. One option no one has mentioned yet is.... Vassal. Free computer program that allows you to get a game of 40k, WFB, etc. from home against new players as long as you have a screen name. Yes, I will admit it is not enjoyable as seeing your opponent's fully painted army in front of you. But much better than traveling to a location and losing and having to have the hang dog head enroute.
Also, MODS, please close this thread. Everything has been said way too many times.
From the description of him I would rather play league and become one of the raging NOOOOOOB people then stand in a room with this person for over 30 seconds and in that time I would tell him he is a terrible person and he should say this 100000 times to repent his sins, "Lugft Huron" and he has to say it with correct pronunciation or it doesn't count and he has to start over from .56456456 of what he had and he has to do all of the math to determine that or he will have to say it with ice on one side of his mouth and ULTRA SPICY chicken wings on the other side of his mouth sending him into shock giving you time to save his poor mistreated Berzerkers.
But, in all seriousness that sounds really sad man... I would actually recommend talking to him not about Warhammer 40k, but about your relationship with each other in general because he is starting to sound really abusive and you are just taking it which really isn't healthy.Yes actually also please close this thread its getting to a point where I read it every day and I just makes me hate the American people more and more everyday...
But, in all seriousness that sounds really sad man... I would actually recommend talking to him not about Warhammer 40k, but about your relationship with each other in general because he is starting to sound really abusive and you are just taking it which really isn't healthy.Yes actually also please close this thread its getting to a point where I read it every day and I just makes me hate the American people more and more everyday...
Don't worry, it's a human thing, not American. Both OP and his donkey-cave "friend" needs to think a lot about what are they doing and why they are doing it. While the guy is clearly an donkey-cave, he has problems too.
sometimes, but we still love each other! 
