Can we not? Can we just not? What happened to the fun episodes? When did everything get so damn grimdark! Ugh. I'm skipping this season, as I already can tell I'll hate it
Overlord Thraka wrote: Can we not? Can we just not? What happened to the fun episodes? When did everything get so **** grimdark!?
The Lord of Time and Space rocking out on a guitar is grimdark?
What? What do you mean by that?
I mean that everything is, "Oooh, super duper serious time. Can't have much in the way of comedy this season."
I like Doctor Who because it was always a mix of comedy, drama and action. The last season was almost entirely stupid drama and action.
Seriously? Missy? That stupid afterlife thing? Turning EVERY SINGLE dead human into a Cyberman? The writer just keeps trying to one-up himself.
I haven't really enjoyed a 'story' episode since David Tennant as the 10th Doctor. I've liked alot of the 'one off' episodes, and I did indeed like Mummy on the Orient Express from last season. But that was the only thing I liked about last season. That one episode.
And don't even get me started on Clara. I seriously hope the focus is put back on the Doctor this time. Nothing against Jenna Coleman, but the way last season was "Clara with a little bit of the Doctor thrown in" was AWFUL.
All in all, my hopes are not high. I've nothing against Capaldi, and I think he was good in the last season. But I seriously HATED season 8.
That's pretty much my thoughts on last season and this one. It's all going to hell and I can't wait to see it either drastically changed, or canceled all together.
I used to live near this crazy old women who could not seperate actor from character. Whenever an actor went on another show that wasnt her "Stories" she thought the character itself was on the show
Im gonna do the same here. That isnt a new Character, It is ARYA STARK in my mind
Overlord Thraka wrote: Can we not? Can we just not? What happened to the fun episodes? When did everything get so **** grimdark!?
The Lord of Time and Space rocking out on a guitar is grimdark?
What? What do you mean by that?
I mean that everything is, "Oooh, super duper serious time. Can't have much in the way of comedy this season."
I like Doctor Who because it was always a mix of comedy, drama and action. The last season was almost entirely stupid drama and action.
Seriously? Missy? That stupid afterlife thing? Turning EVERY SINGLE dead human into a Cyberman? The writer just keeps trying to one-up himself.
I haven't really enjoyed a 'story' episode since David Tennant as the 10th Doctor. I've liked alot of the 'one off' episodes, and I did indeed like Mummy on the Orient Express from last season. But that was the only thing I liked about last season. That one episode.
And don't even get me started on Clara. I seriously hope the focus is put back on the Doctor this time. Nothing against Jenna Coleman, but the way last season was "Clara with a little bit of the Doctor thrown in" was AWFUL.
All in all, my hopes are not high. I've nothing against Capaldi, and I think he was good in the last season. But I seriously HATED season 8.
That's pretty much my thoughts on last season and this one. It's all going to hell and I can't wait to see it either drastically changed, or canceled all together.
Really? Cause last season was one of the most highly ratefd among fans, because we finally got rid of GODDAMN 11th docter and his childishness of "DINOSAURS ON A SPACESHIP"
Really? Cause last season was one of the most highly ratefd among fans, because we finally got rid of GODDAMN 11th docter and his childishness of "DINOSAURS ON A SPACESHIP"
...So you go on a rant to explain why he should like last season, while at the same time deriding Matt Smith's run as "childishness"?
Did you never see the Vincent Van Gogh episode? Because seriously, saying that this is "childishness" makes me question if you actually watched his run:
It as alot more childish then anything I have seen then a show for Adults. His jokes, his annoying tendencie to act erractic.
No, Matt Smith is the worst docter
hotsauceman1 wrote: It as alot more childish then anything I have seen then a show for Adults. His jokes, his annoying tendencie to act erractic.
No, Matt Smith is the worst docter
Childish and erratic are make him the worse doctor, you say?
hotsauceman1 wrote: I used to live near this crazy old women who could not seperate actor from character. Whenever an actor went on another show that wasnt her "Stories" she thought the character itself was on the show
Im gonna do the same here. That isnt a new Character, It is ARYA STARK in my mind
Does that mean The Doctor is, in fact, The Cardinal?
hotsauceman1 wrote: It as alot more childish then anything I have seen then a show for Adults. His jokes, his annoying tendencie to act erractic.
No, Matt Smith is the worst docter
Serious question:
Did you actually watch all of Matt Smith's run?
People who think any of the current series are ridiculous should watch the old episodes. Instead of defaulting to glowering stare followed by sonic screwdriver as a way of dealing with foes, he used everything from jelly babies to the "look over there!" trick.
I mean, Matt Smith had some very good one-off episodes (Vincent being one of the best), but the overall arcs for series 6 and 7 were awful, with all the gak about Amy being pregnant or not, and fething in the TARDIS making a pseudo-Time Lord.
Series 8 was much better, because Peter Capaldi is awesome, and the monster-of-the-week episodes were generally fantastic (Flatline was my personal favourite, Mummy & Orient Express was a close runner-up, along with Time Heist). "Forest of the Dead of the Grimdark Night" was the obligatory terrible episode, but the series finale wasn't much better, in my opinion. Nothing in it really made any kind of (Doctor Who relative) sense, and... I've had this rant before, so I won't repeat it. Suffice to say, Clara should probably leave soon, and Doctor Who really needs a management shake-up; Moffat's had his run now, and someone else should probably take over.
As Shouty Tennent carried on and shouted more and more I hated his epeisodes more and more
Matt Smith started well but it replapsed into shout and wave the Sonic screwdriver around and the Dr is Mary Sue invincible to the nth degree
The tedious whining about him "dying" (and regenernating) was pathetic and turned me right off.
Saw some of the recent run - and although I liked the one with the flat entities from a nother dimension - the trees save the world was horrible and the wasted dinosaur espisode. I would agree that the Monstor of the week are usually better than Moffats tired and dreery storyline with his beloved characters repeatedly being showcased ad nausim
Like Clara but rather we had the Cardinal back for Muskateers.
I always loved Christopher Eccleston personally. He's always been my favorite, it's sad he was only for one season though. I do find he seems to be massively unappreciated, because of the massive amount of attention David Tennent got.
Co'tor Shas wrote: I always loved Christopher Eccleston personally. He's always been my favorite, it's sad he was only for one season though. I do find he seems to be massively unappreciated, because of the massive amount of attention David Tennent got.
I REALLY disliked Eccleston to begin with. Watching his run through again at the moment, and while he's still somewhat irritating, he's far better as the Doctor than I had originally given him credit for.
I actually thoroughly enjoyed Matt Smith's run, although not just because of him... (my daughter is named Amelia. Total coincidence, honest ) Sure , it had some silly moments, but I'm not watching Doctor Who for serious, cutting edge scifi.
Having said that , less reliance on the sonic to fix every problem would be nice. I got a big chuckle or of War Doctor's derision of the screwdriver in the anniversary special.
I have liked all of them as Doctor Who, they are all good actors, but there has been a tendency for the over-arching story arc involving the assistant saving the universe to become more bleeding obvious and therefore tedious as the series have stacked up.
It is long past time for Clara to go. I suppose she was held on to provide continuity between Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi.
Somehow I got bored of the Musketeers towards the end of series 1 and I never bothered to watch series 2.
hotsauceman1 wrote: It as alot more childish then anything I have seen then a show for Adults. His jokes, his annoying tendencie to act erractic.
No, Matt Smith is the worst docter
Serious question:
Did you actually watch all of Matt Smith's run?
Yes. And i found it tedious in which it didnt have a plot episode.
With silly things like "I talk horse" and doing things like "And his name is susan and he wants you to respect his life choices
hotsauceman1 wrote: Yes. And i found it tedious in which it didnt have a plot episode.
With silly things like "I talk horse" and doing things like "And his name is susan and he wants you to respect his life choices
I really think you have a weird perspective on Doctor Who. Have you only seen the revised series?
hotsauceman1 wrote: Yes. And I dont CARE about the doctor in the previous incarnations.
The thing is, the 'new' Doctors really aren't any substantial deviation from the way he's always been. He does peculiar things. He behaves as if he knows what's going on, even when he doesn't. He's a font of knowledge... but not averse to just making gak up when it suits him.
They're certainly played up the light-heartedness a bit more in 'New Who', but for me, that's what makes it work, because the old stuff is dated enough that it's really hard (even for someone like me who grew up with it) to take it particularly seriously. So if the modern series had tried to take a more serious approach, it would have felt like a major disconnect for those of us who do still enjoy the old stuff, cheesy as it is by today's standards.
There's plenty of hard scifi out there these days. I'm quite happy that the writers of Dr Who have chosen to give us something a bit fluffier.
I was watching an old interview with Christopher Ecclston from back in 2005 and he was saying that the appeal of Doctor Whos is that it isn't post-modern irony like Buffy but it has actual heart and meaning to it. And it did.
Now, Doctor who is JUST post-modern irony with none of the heart, filled with awful characters and beyond creepy storylines. Matt Smith was amazingly charismatic, but even he couldn't hide the fact that the 11th doctor is a child grooming, sexually assaulting, mass murdering jerk.
I marathoned the last series all at once and it was painful. The new Doctor isn't darker than the last, he's completly uncaring about getting people killed. The plots are the worst they've ever been. The daleks have been ruined, and thats without taking the power ranger daleks into account. Clara is a good actress, but the worst companion yet. I'm not even getting started on Danny.
It's terrible, and unlike Sherlock it hasn't got the whole gay-baiting aspect to stop its fans from realising how terrible it is. Stephen Moffat has ruined this once amazing show.
New season preview trailer was shown on BBC One tonight after the Agatha Christie detective show.
There was a Dalek (2005 pattern) and Zygon and several new looking monsters, as well as a new actress that my daughter says was in Game of Thrones. She looks a bit like the young Amy grown up to the early teens.
Kilkrazy wrote: New season preview trailer was shown on BBC One tonight after the Agatha Christie detective show.
There was a Dalek (2005 pattern) and Zygon and several new looking monsters, as well as a new actress that my daughter says was in Game of Thrones. She looks a bit like the young Amy grown up to the early teens.
I guess you mean Maisie Williams, although based on that description, Sophie Turner seems a better fit. Also glad to see that Moffat seems to have completely given up on the brightly coloured blobs new dalek paradigm (I think that makes it 3 years since we last saw one?).
Kilkrazy wrote: New season preview trailer was shown on BBC One tonight after the Agatha Christie detective show.
There was a Dalek (2005 pattern) and Zygon and several new looking monsters, as well as a new actress that my daughter says was in Game of Thrones. She looks a bit like the young Amy grown up to the early teens.
I guess you mean Maisie Williams, although based on that description, Sophie Turner seems a better fit. Also glad to see that Moffat seems to have completely given up on the brightly coloured blobs new dalek paradigm (I think that makes it 3 years since we last saw one?).
I think the last time we saw one of those Daleks was with their planet/asylum and the eye stalk in the forehead Dalek zombies (first Clara episode as well).
Maisie Williams is (judging from the Comic Con panel), playing some sort of re-envisioning of an old-Who character, like Rani or Romana.
Barring a few outstanding episodes, the Moffat run has been IMO awful.
I stopped watching the show around season 6, as I couldn't stand the Doctor running around committing mass murder while still being praised as some kind of pseudo-Jesus figure.
Bronzefists42 wrote: Barring a few outstanding episodes, the Moffat run has been IMO awful.
I stopped watching the show around season 6, as I couldn't stand the Doctor running around committing mass murder while still being praised as some kind of pseudo-Jesus figure.
Season 7 had some nice stuff (they toned down the godliness the Doctor started to get). Season 8 had a couple good episodes, mostly because those gems are the ones Moffat didn't right. He's writing less for this next season too.
Moffatt should have left two or three years ago. The Clara 'story arc' has been extended well beyond rationality. At least Moffatt has toned down the lovey-dovey stuff. Most of the best episodes have been the one-offs by other writers.
So, in other fantastic news, everyone's favourite character returns to our screens after the inconclusive cliffhanger ending of her story arc!
/sarcasm
Alex Kingston is returning to Doctor Who for this year's Christmas Special.
The British actress plays River Song, a mysterious time-traveller whose encounters with the Doctor occur out of sequence, often leaving the Time Lord mystified. She even married him in 2011.
But her character hasn't been seen in the series for three years, so the Christmas special, which starts filming this week, will be her first appearance with the latest incarnation of the Doctor, aka Peter Capaldi.
"To be honest, I did not know whether River would ever return," says Kingston, "but here she is."
"Steven Moffat is on glittering form, giving us an episode filled with humour and surprise guest castings. I met Peter for the first time at Monday's read through, we had a laugh, and I am now excited and ready to start filming with him and the Doctor Who team. Christmas in September? Why not!"
-Shrike- wrote: So, in other fantastic news, everyone's favourite character returns to our screens after the inconclusive cliffhanger ending of her story arc!
/sarcasm
Take your sarcasm somewhere else. Some of us like River Song.
IÂ saw this on FBÂ this morning and got rather excited.
Kilkrazy wrote: I didn't realise she was gone. I have a habit of missing key wrapup episodes in these new-fangled story arcs.
Well, the "something* of the Doctor" episode made it clear that she was gone, and that was the last we saw of her. She also appeared in some mini-episodes, which included her last night with the Doctor, where he gave her the sonic screwdriver. And, you know, she died on-screen 7 years ago... (still the only episode in which I find her bearable).
*Time, Day, Name, Death, or something like that. I gave up when we had three episodes in a row in that format.
RIVER'S BACK!!!!! I've literally been waiting for the moment we get to see her and Twelve from the moment it was announced Capaldi was taking over. Personally I love the character, and found the episodes including her to be better than many of the other episodes in Matt Smith's run
I'm getting strong Pan's Labyrinth vibes from that brief shot of the field of the hand-eyes - not necessarily a bad thing, mind you. Also glad to see the return of the Supreme Dalek, which I always thought was basically the equivalent of the highest ranked Dalek - i.e. not unique, and we should have seen one again by now (given how many Dalek-based things have cropped up since 2008, including the Time War!). Black Daleks, I'm not so pleased about, beacuse I was under the impression that (post Time War, 2005-present) Dalek Sec was supposedly unique in that respect. I could be wrong, though, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd re-used the same props in some of the later episodes. As for the Missy story arc... I won't care if it's subtle. If it's as blatant and in-our-face as the last few series' plots, well...
... I probably won't be very surprised, to be honest.
I was watching an old interview with Christopher Ecclston from back in 2005 and he was saying that the appeal of Doctor Whos is that it isn't post-modern irony like Buffy but it has actual heart and meaning to it. And it did.
Now, Doctor who is JUST post-modern irony with none of the heart, filled with awful characters and beyond creepy storylines. Matt Smith was amazingly charismatic, but even he couldn't hide the fact that the 11th doctor is a child grooming, sexually assaulting, mass murdering jerk.
I marathoned the last series all at once and it was painful. The new Doctor isn't darker than the last, he's completly uncaring about getting people killed. The plots are the worst they've ever been. The daleks have been ruined, and thats without taking the power ranger daleks into account. Clara is a good actress, but the worst companion yet. I'm not even getting started on Danny.
It's terrible, and unlike Sherlock it hasn't got the whole gay-baiting aspect to stop its fans from realising how terrible it is. Stephen Moffat has ruined this once amazing show.
Really? I know alot of people that came back to the show because it got good with the new doctor and started taking itself seriously again.
Not with stuff like Space Whale and "DINOSAURs, on a space ship"
Watched first episode to see if it had improved - Nope
Another plot story about near how the Dr, oh whine whine a near immortal man might die - or a bit of him - sheesh that story is pathetic
Overblown build up of the Dr as the most dangerous man in the universe yet again - yawn - yeah we get how Mary Sue he is.
standard Star Trek style - given we have time travel - we can kill main characters for shock value - except there isn;t any such value and as they got rid of any not interfering in own time stream - is there actually any point in any plot where the Dr apparently loses - he just goes back and resets.
Jenna looked quite pretty and her interplay with Missy was not bad - indeed - killing the Dr and whaving them too travel together for a bit to get him back would have been more interesting.
I am very sad that I thought the rest of the episode was pretty much crap. I sat there watching it with increasing sadness.
There's no tension in a story line of Doctor Who dying because we know he won't. Stuff was flashed around so quickly, typical modern camera and editing that is meant to distract the viewer's attention from defects in the story. WTF is Dr. Who messing around with a guitar and a tank for? Just to be cool?
I liked the moral dilemma involving Davros but again, we know the Daleks aren't going to get written out of history.
Apparently Steven Moffatt is too busy with Sherlock to do a full Dr. Who series next year. In my view it is time he took a break from it and handed the reins to some people with fresh ideas.
Yeah, Robe Guy was a kind of a cool creature concept, but does not make sense to me as a servant of Davros At All. I don't know much about the old stuff, but has he ever had anyone/thing besides a Dalek working for him?
Kilkrazy wrote: The robe guy was a pretty cool concept, actually.
I am very sad that I thought the rest of the episode was pretty much crap. I sat there watching it with increasing sadness.
There's no tension in a story line of Doctor Who dying because we know he won't. Stuff was flashed around so quickly, typical modern camera and editing that is meant to distract the viewer's attention from defects in the story. WTF is Dr. Who messing around with a guitar and a tank for? Just to be cool?
I liked the moral dilemma involving Davros but again, we know the Daleks aren't going to get written out of history.
Apparently Steven Moffatt is too busy with Sherlock to do a full Dr. Who series next year. In my view it is time he took a break from it and handed the reins to some people with fresh ideas.
I think the point was that if the Doctor is going to die, he's going to have a huge party before he does (hence introducing the electric guitar and "dude" 300 years early).
I liked Missy in the episode, except for the "Hey Ricky" reference. Tickling the Dalek was my favorite bit.
As for Davros: He was one of my guesses for the "he" in the proglogue (the others being the Master and the Face of Boe). I expect that the Doctor is going to save Davros, but the hate he is showing will inspire the creation of the Daleks, leading the Doctor to be the muse of Davros.
Well, I'm glad that episode cleared everything up, with concise, coherent and believable explanations!
/sarcasm
Also, obvious plot hole #1:
Spoiler:
River Song made a Dalek beg for mercy already, as silly as that was. How on earth does that correlate with that totally obvious logical sequence from "Daleks have mercy in their vocabulary" to "I must show Davros mercy!"? Given that Daleks have previously been shown to understand emotions and how they affect lesser beings, that entire plot point just seemed completely bizarre and contrived. Well, even more so than normal.
-Shrike- wrote: Well, I'm glad that episode cleared everything up, with concise, coherent and believable explanations!
Was this your first Doctor Who episode...?
Fortunately not. I just found it have an almost lethal concentration of Handwavium, even in comparison to some of Moffat's other offerings. I don't remember the library or empty child episodes having such garbled explanations, but I'm worried that might just be a tinge of nostalgia.
Dr. What wrote: I liked Missy in the episode, except for the "Hey Ricky" reference. Tickling the Dalek was my favorite bit..
I'm quite glad the Missy is back... really enjoying her character.
I'm rather hoping that we get an episode with Missy and River in the same room...
Christmas, hopefully. Michelle Gomez says she wants to stick around as long as possible and River's coming back.
"Pity, I was feeling quite peckish."
"Can I have a stick too?"
"The last chair on Skaro"
I love the Missy dynamic.
Wasn't there something Missy said about a child?
Hype-powered Daleks? Not so much. But the hunter-vegan relationship of the Doctor and Missy is just amazing.
Spoiler:
I do like how they're continuing the "I'm the Doctor, just accept it, don't let facts get in the way of a good story," but what happened between Missy and Clara towards the end....
I wish Missy and the Doctor had a "hands off Clara" rule. That was too far with the Dalek.
I enjoyed it a lot more than last week, which I found confusing. I don't mind a plot hole about a Dalek with mercy because it set up two good dramatic scenes. Also, the Daleks have existed in so many permutations in space and time that there probably are different strands of Daleks with and without mercy.
I am more disturbed by the idea that a Time Lord can turn their regeneration energy on and off like a flashlight to heal people. In the whole history of Dr Who, regeneration has always been an unconscious response to fatal injury.
Kilkrazy wrote: I enjoyed it a lot more than last week, which I found confusing. I don't mind a plot hole about a Dalek with mercy because it set up two good dramatic scenes. Also, the Daleks have existed in so many permutations in space and time that there probably are different strands of Daleks with and without mercy.
I am more disturbed by the idea that a Time Lord can turn their regeneration energy on and off like a flashlight to heal people. In the whole history of Dr Who, regeneration has always been an unconscious response to fatal injury.
Mr Moffet has no interest in the history and even less in Continuity......
The character interactions were nicely done - enjoyed those Less said about the "plot" the better............
AegisGrimm wrote: Does anyone have a problem with the sound mixing on Doctor Who lately? The dramatic music is so loud, I have a hard time bearing anyone who's talking.
I do. I'm running the tv output through a stereo hi-fi setup, which is perfect for most films. The last two episodes of Doctor Who have had me turn the volume up, turn the treble up, turn the treble down, fiddle with the equalisation, and curse the sound techs, because a good two-thirds of the dialogue is bordering on incomprehensible, no matter what I try.
Nice (I suppose) to know it's not just iview causing that... We've had to watch the first two episodes online, as the hard drive died in our PVR. I had assumed the dodgy sound was just ABC's website.
Rather annoying trying to juggle the volume up and down to hear the dialogue without waking up the 2-year-old sleeping at the other end of the house with all the screaming and exploding and suchlike...
I'm watching it on BBC America, and I echo the child sentiment, except mine's 8 months, and luckily sleeps through thunderstorms and once a suddenly malfunctioning fire alarm that scared the crap out of me instead.
I actually quite liked this week's episode. Sure, the ending was obvious, but it felt much more like a monster of the week(s) affair - no blatant overhanging series story arc to worry about.
Also wasn't really expecting it to be a two-parter, that was quite a nice surprise.
I liked the base commander, it was a pity he was the first to die.
To be frank, the ending wasn't obvious to me.
The non-overhanging-story-arc two-parters are often good, precisely because they aren't driven by the need to advance the overhanging story arc and have more time to develop an idea than a single episode.
I think that two-parters work for Peter Capaldi's Doctor. His stories are a bit slower (but get some nicer development).
The deaf scientist was interesting and I like how the Doctor worked with her. I went to a Uni with a very large deaf population and you very commonly saw new people say they knew sign, sign 2 or 3 words, then fail miserably, but regular people don't even acknowledge the lack of hearing because we're all used to working around it.
This evening, with literally nothing else to watch, I turned back to Dr Who...
And to my surprise, managed to get through all 3 episodes without once wanting to turn it off, which after the monstrously bad ending to last year's series that pretty much killed any interest I had in this year's is quite remarkable.
First two episodes I liked rather more than I expected; the silliness with the guitar and the tank aside, there was very little 'dead' time in the plot (unlike most of last year's episodes that had at least 5-10 minutes of Clara side plot before anything interesting happened) and the scenes with Davros and The Doctor were very good. I also found myself not having as much of a problem with Missy as I did last year, although I still can't bring myself to think of her as The Master. Yeah, parts of the plot were obvious and there were a few holes here and there (and the less said about the sunglasses the better, frankly) but it was perfectly watchable.
The third episode was great. No overhanging plot arc, a classic 'base under siege' plot with a few good twists, a nice, tight cast and script, and a fascinatingly spooky monster... And a 2-parter simply because the story deserved it, rather than because it was a part of the series plot arc. This is what's been slowly going away over the last few years, so it's good to see a comeback here. Long may it continue.
In short, bring on next week's! I'll still be looking at a review or two for future episodes before watching in case there are any stinkers, but so far, I'd say this series is 3 for 3! I can't see myself ever being as much of a fan as I used to be a couple of years ago, but I'm hesitantly optimistic for this series...
It's my view that a lot of the best episodes for the whole new series have been written by 'outsiders', including Moffatt during the Russell T Davies years.
Kilkrazy wrote: Note that episode 3 was not written by Moffatt.
It's my view that a lot of the best episodes for the whole new series have been written by 'outsiders', including Moffatt during the Russell T Davies years.
Agreed. I am generally confident with anything by Toby Whithouse, Jamie Mathieson, Gareth Roberts or Chris Chibnall. Moffat used to be excellent consistently (all his stuff before he became showrunner I think is great. Blink, Girl in the Fireplace, Library, Empty Child, all great) but I think the power has gone to his head slightly, and I wasn't at all a fan of his contributions to the last series. Gatiss and Gaiman are hit-and-miss. I wouldn't mind RTD coming back to do one or two one-offs, actually. I'm also hoping at some point they let Patrick Ness write one- he's just been given a spin-off to replace the Sarah Jane series which I'm not that interested in, but he is one of my favourite authors and I think he could do a good job on the show proper.
That said, I'm not looking up writers or synopses of anything this series; I plan to take each episode on its own merits rather than a) getting my hopes up or b) lowering my expectations based on prior information. The reason I hadn't watched any until yesterday was simply that I couldn't be bothered to be disappointed week-on-week like I was for a lot of last year (there were about 4 last series that I thought were better than mediocre, the rest I can quite happily forget).
Of course, what helps is that the cast at the moment is great. Capaldi may well be the best Doctor there's been (with the right script) and Coleman is sooo much better now than she was when she first appeared (I think she actually fits Capaldi's Doctor much better than Smith's).
Yeah. One one hand, it's written by Patrick Ness... on the other, it's about a class of school kids doing... well, that's all a little vague, probably stuff with aliens...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-34415344
Not terribly excited, but like I say it does mean we might one day get Ness doing a proper episode, which could be great.
-Shrike- wrote: I actually quite liked this week's episode. Sure, the ending was obvious, but it felt much more like a monster of the week(s) affair - no blatant overhanging series story arc to worry about.
Also wasn't really expecting it to be a two-parter, that was quite a nice surprise.
Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and was a little disappointed when I realised it was going to be a two parter.
Only real complaint with this series so far is those bloody sunglasses.
Sarah Jane Adventures were actually rather fun though a bit juvenile, and she made a good return to Dr. Who in a couple of main series adventures.
I am biased by the fact that a young Elizabeth Sladen was the important companion of Jon Pertwee, who was the most important Dr. Who actor for people of my age. So I remember her with affection. Doctor Who itself was more juvenile in those days too.
-Shrike- wrote: I actually quite liked this week's episode. Sure, the ending was obvious, but it felt much more like a monster of the week(s) affair - no blatant overhanging series story arc to worry about.
Also wasn't really expecting it to be a two-parter, that was quite a nice surprise.
Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and was a little disappointed when I realised it was going to be a two parter.
Only real complaint with this series so far is those bloody sunglasses.
-Shrike- wrote: I actually quite liked this week's episode. Sure, the ending was obvious, but it felt much more like a monster of the week(s) affair - no blatant overhanging series story arc to worry about.
Also wasn't really expecting it to be a two-parter, that was quite a nice surprise.
Yeah, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and was a little disappointed when I realised it was going to be a two parter.
Only real complaint with this series so far is those bloody sunglasses.
I fully expect them to be stepped on or smashed like the first fez Smith had.
I have to say, they are really inconsistant with the first 2 parter
I mean, The Daleks have the word Mercy. Ok that means Davros put the word in their vocabulary, But he was still willing to kill the Doctor and Create the Daleks.
But if the Daleks have Mercy, should that not mean that they are capable of mercy?
and one final thing, So, it says that Davros ina way control all Daleks.......Could it be that the only reason the doctor is still alive, and defeats the Daleks constantly is cause Davros wills it?
And, Could it be the Hybrid is not a bad thing? Maybe Davros realized the Daleks are Wrong and that they are not surperior, but still wants to save his people.
Too many questions
Well whaddaya know, another decent one! Standout was the visual design of the alien, and the cameras being given ample time to show that off.
Spoiler:
The guitar thing did bug me slightly. Yeah, we get it, Dr 12 is a bit of a rock god. But the guitar over the opening credits was a bit much, really. And I'm not sure I was a fan of the 'talk to camera' opening/exposition, I could have done without that as it did make parts a little predictable later on.
The scene immediately after O'Donnel's death was a high point, it's always nice to see supporting cast actually challenging the coldness of this Doctor. It was touched on a bit last year, but still works here. The 'list' might have been a tad predictable, as was the resolution with the cradle, but not so much so as to ruin the storyline.
Wonder what O'Donnel was talking about with the 'War Minister'... hopefully just a hint to a future episode, rather than a plot-arcy thing.
There are definite parallels with some of the older Moffat stuff here; this one definitely called to mind things like The Library and City of Angels, especially with the somewhat drastic (but effective) change in tone in the second episode.
Next weeks... hmm, I shall withhold judgement, but I'm not sure what kind of plot they can wring out of 'vikings vs aliens' that hasn't been covered before... still, I'll give it a shot. if we can get 5 episodes in a row that are all decent, I might just start being optimistic again!
Just saw the latest. Not bad.
I like how they explained the Bootstrap Paradox. But man, This is why Time Travel sucks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, Remember the sentiment how the doctor will finally meet River Song who has yet to meet him?
Anyone think that is gonna happen?
hotsauceman1 wrote: Just saw the latest. Not bad.
I like how they explained the Bootstrap Paradox. But man, This is why Time Travel sucks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, Remember the sentiment how the doctor will finally meet River Song who has yet to meet him?
Anyone think that is gonna happen?
I thought they'd covered that in 'let's kill hitler'
I can conceptualise how it is possible for a character from your future to remember having met you before you remember having met them. It is a question of how their two world-lines intersect. Given practical time travel, it is easy to wrap these around like long bits of string to allow it to happen.
Spoiler:
It doesn't explain paradoxes, of course, but Time Lord technology apparently has some way of allowing paradoxes to be created and resolved in situations that are not Fixed Points In Time. That shouldn't be too hard a stretch if you can get a mobile phone signal not only to reach backwards 100 years, but also to reach someone in the Scottish Highlands before mobile phones were even invented.
Looking at the paradox of the hologram ghost, my view is that the ghost is created in a piece of time stream that afterwards separates from the main universe and exists as a short-lived, self-contained bubble universe, and the knowledge created by the ghost is retained in the main universe by morphic resonance.
Also, Remember the sentiment how the doctor will finally meet River Song who has yet to meet him?
Anyone think that is gonna happen?
I thought they'd covered that in 'let's kill hitler'
Yep. First time she meets the Doctor is in LKH, he knows her (once she regenerates) but she doesn't know him as anything other than the target The Silence set her up to kill. Last time from her perspective is The Library, with the 10th Doctor; there, she's seen everything that'll happen to them, he has no idea who she is.
Also, Remember the sentiment how the doctor will finally meet River Song who has yet to meet him?
Anyone think that is gonna happen?
I thought they'd covered that in 'let's kill hitler'
Yep. First time she meets the Doctor is in LKH, he knows her (once she regenerates) but she doesn't know him as anything other than the target The Silence set her up to kill. Last time from her perspective is The Library, with the 10th Doctor; there, she's seen everything that'll happen to them, he has no idea who she is.
Which is honestly why I wish they'd leave her alone. She had her run, she got closure, let's move on to pastures new.
With his resurrecting of the daleks (again), the cybermen (still to come) and the suckerhead zygons (also still to come) and it being a short season, I don't think he has time to be original - let alone I don't think he's capable of it anymore.
I went to school with some deaf kids and they taught me to sign - but they had a nickname for me - "the hick" because I "spoke" so slowly.
chromedog wrote: With his resurrecting of the daleks (again), the cybermen (still to come) and the suckerhead zygons (also still to come) and it being a short season, I don't think he has time to be original - let alone I don't think he's capable of it anymore.
I definitely think there's scope to be original within the framework of those, though. Look at, say, Dalek from series 1, Stolen Earth from series 4 and Victory of the Daleks from series 5, they're all completely different types of story using the same antagonist. Dalek is almost a horror, this one unstoppable creature just making its way through dozens of humans. Stolen Earth is an epic, 'they might actually kill the universe this time so let's get ALL the supporting cast in', and Victory is a suspense, as you work out what exactly Daleks are doing in British Military Greens (a suspense ruined by the look of the teletubby Daleks, but the plot is sound). So yeah, you don't need to invent something entirely new to be original, just do something different with it.
Actually, this series' opener was a good example of that; there were parallels with some older stuff, but ultimately this was a 'new' dalek story.
Of course, what we don't want is a resurrection that completely changes the face of this monsters. The Cybermen have got the short end of the stick here in recent years, firstly with the aptly named 'Nightmare in Silver' with its T-1000-meets-Borg Cybermen reboot, and then last year with the Cyber-zombie-iron-man monstrosities. But even an extensive reboot can work if done well, I loved the almost steampunk Cybermen in 'The Next Doctor'.
With River, though, she's not a seminal part of Dr Who history in the same way the Daleks or Cybermen or The Master are; she had an arc, it was interesting, but it's concluded, and there's not a great deal more you can do with that character. I thought she was great, but her story is told, her mystery solved, and bringing her back now just makes the 'ending' to her story matter less and less.
Moffat himself, though, I agree about; he can write a solid one-off episode from time to time, and when he has a good idea it's typically really good (Weeping Angels, Silence, Vashta Nerada), but in terms of writing characters or plots he suffers when compared to many of the other writers. These days, that is, he used to be consistently great before he got the ego boost of being handed the showrunner position.
Another thing about Moffat is that he is not only in charge of Doctor Who, he is in charge of Sherlock too, and he probably is spreading his energies too thinly.
I just watched the latest episode. The Fisher King has to be the coolest looking monsters they've ever had on the show, both in terms of visuals and design. Plus, how many enemies do you know that are brave enough to chastise timelords?
I really hope he wasn't a one time enemy in the show. All that work on such a cool costume and it's going to collect dust in a closet.
Yeah, the Fisher King was pretty awesome. Loved the episode as a whole.
I don't get the guitar stuff... It's randomness for the sake of randomness. If they had cut it out of the episode, nothing at all would have been lost, and it really adds nothing useful to the character of the Doctor.
Having said that, I did actually quite like the guitared-up opening credits
hotsauceman1 wrote: Just saw the latest. Not bad.
I like how they explained the Bootstrap Paradox. But man, This is why Time Travel sucks.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, Remember the sentiment how the doctor will finally meet River Song who has yet to meet him?
Anyone think that is gonna happen?
We already had that, it was "Let's Kill Hitler."
It would be interesting if this special episode has the Doctor take her to the Singing Towers, then at the end he would hand her a screwdriver and drop her off with that crew headed for the Library.
It would be interesting if this special episode has the Doctor take her to the Singing Towers, then at the end he would hand her a screwdriver and drop her off with that crew headed for the Library.
Pretty sure they've already done that. There were a series of shorts on the series 6 (I think) boxed set called First Night, Last Night, Best Night and Worst Night. I'm certain at least one of those hinted at the Singing Towers.
It would be interesting if this special episode has the Doctor take her to the Singing Towers, then at the end he would hand her a screwdriver and drop her off with that crew headed for the Library.
Pretty sure they've already done that. There were a series of shorts on the series 6 (I think) boxed set called First Night, Last Night, Best Night and Worst Night. I'm certain at least one of those hinted at the Singing Towers.
Last Night, and it was explicit about it. That was quite clearly the last time River saw the Doctor before she died in the library, so we really have seen pretty much all the important bits of River and the Doctor's life together.
Just to drag it out a bit more, River said that Tennant-Doctor looked 'really young', and it sounded as though she'd known him in many forms. Since it was the first time he had met her, River could, and should, appear at any time to come.
I'm often wondering how well the baddies' timelines cross the Doctor's in the correct order.
Eccleston-Doctor had a lot of mention of the Time War, and characters all around him talked about it too. Not much afterwards, and nothing before. Yet, he was in all sorts of times.
It was the the same with the missing planets. They were taken from all kinds of times, yet he only heard about them when it made the story continue.
I know, it has to happen that way for the narrative to work, but just stands out a lot.
I want to see an odd comment or two thrown into a story, which only makes sense a couple of years later.
Skinnereal wrote: Just to drag it out a bit more, River said that Tennant-Doctor looked 'really young', and it sounded as though she'd known him in many forms. Since it was the first time he had met her, River could, and should, appear at any time to come.
I'm often wondering how well the baddies' timelines cross the Doctor's in the correct order.
Eccleston-Doctor had a lot of mention of the Time War, and characters all around him talked about it too. Not much afterwards, and nothing before. Yet, he was in all sorts of times.
It was the the same with the missing planets. They were taken from all kinds of times, yet he only heard about them when it made the story continue.
I know, it has to happen that way for the narrative to work, but just stands out a lot.
I want to see an odd comment or two thrown into a story, which only makes sense a couple of years later.
Time Travel, Whattya gonna do.
When Rose would phone the docter, how would she know she got HER docter a,d how is it at the correct timeline?
hotsauceman1 wrote: When Rose would phone the docter, how would she know she got HER docter a,d how is it at the correct timeline?
I expect that one would be down to the fact that the call routes through the Tardis, and the Tardis is big on enforcing the whole 'no crossing over your own timeline' thing... so would put the call through at the appropriate time to the appropriate Doctor.
Yes, that really is the whole point of the whole of Doctor Who. The Tardis is a time machine that lets people fly around for exciting adventures anywhere in time and space. It has all kinds of capabilities for furthering the plot.
As a show it's pretty good, but there's a lot more they could do with it.
I assume there's some overriding policy to keep things to a single series/story-arc. Only some break through of that, like River and the Master.
If only inconsistencies got caught before hitting the screen. Weeping Angels that can look at each other? Oh well...
As a show it's pretty good, but there's a lot more they could do with it.
I assume there's some overriding policy to keep things to a single series/story-arc. Only some break through of that, like River and the
Master.
The only other notable one was The Silence, that was first mentioned at the start of series 5 and didn't get properly resolved until Trenzalore in Time of the Doctor, 3 series and 3 specials later. To be honest, though, I'd much prefer as little of an 'arc' as possible with the plot, I'd rather see a series that's just 'Monster of the Week' stuff with stories that can stand on their own merits, and a finale that rewards you picking up on stuff without having to beat you around the head with plot arc material at the end of every episode (basically, more 'Bad Wolf', less 'We now interrupt this program to bring you Missy').
And in that regard, this series seems to be doing quite well, unless the plot arc concerns the Doc's mad guitar skills...
If only inconsistencies got caught before hitting the screen. Weeping Angels that can look at each other? Oh well...
When are you thinking? If you're talking about The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone, they only moved when the lights were out, so they couldn't 'see' each other even if they were looking in that direction. Lights come back on, freeze.
Paradigm wrote: When are you thinking? If you're talking about The Time of Angels/Flesh and Stone, they only moved when the lights were out, so they couldn't 'see' each other even if they were looking in that direction. Lights come back on, freeze.
Yeah, that.
In Blink, they couldn't look at each other, or they'd get stuck, even after the lights go out, which is why they covered their faces.
After that, they could recover in darkness.
Huh, I never took it that way. I always figured they had to actually be seen for the Quantum Lock to kick in, and thus, if there's total darkness (for instance, in an underground maze in which you can shut off every electric light source) then they're good to go. In Blink, even at night there would be some degree of ambient light that meant they would be able to 'see' each other and thus needed to cover their faces. At the end of that episode, the light is left on, thus as long as there's power they are stuck.
Tonight's was odd, and not in a particularly good way. A couple of great scenes, but as a episode it seemed to exist entirely to set up
Spoiler:
Ashildr for next week's, which apart from her seems to be entirely unrelated.
I did like the fact that they turned Smith's 'I speak baby' joke into something actually quite poignant, and there were a couple of scenes with the Doctor and Clara that were very good, but that was pretty much cancelled out by the pantomime villain, ludicrous resolution of the main plot and the Doctor as a comedy Drill Sergeant. And something of a misrepresentation of Viking culture, but sadly that's par for the course.
I can't decide whether I liked the 'explanation' about his face or not; on one hand, it kind of added something to his character (that arguably was there already), but at this point I wonder how many people still make the connection between Capaldi and the bit part he had in the show 7 years ago... Or even care? I could have easily done without the scene.
Still, 4/5 is still a more consistent run that they managed last year, and next week's looks decent.
Yeah, my description of the episode would be "odd" as well.
I'm kinda surprised about the Vikings portrayal too. I had kinda figured The BBC being, well, the BBC with their requirement-to-educate or whatever the technical phrase is, I was expecting halfway through to stop halfway through and say, "you really expect me to believe this fantasy?" Before tossing a horned helmet against a wall and revealing it to be some kind of holodeck. Then a rant about how it's all wrong.
To be fair, they did that last year with Robin Hood, the whole 'this is so historically inaccurate it can't be real but it is' thing. But yeah, the horned helmets and the fact they referred to the whole lot as 'vikings' (as opposed to just the seafarers).
Possibly. Although I got the impression that the prophecy referred specifically to a Time Lord-Dalek hybrid from the way Davros was talking about it. I may be wrong, though.
Paradigm wrote: Possibly. Although I got the impression that the prophecy referred specifically to a Time Lord-Dalek hybrid from the way Davros was talking about it. I may be wrong, though.
I took it to be that the prophecy said "great warrior race" and Davros automatically took it to mean his creations. The Fisher King said something similar about the Time Lords, "once they realized they had teeth."
And a splendid return to form this week. The plot itself might have been a little light, but the character work this week was great. I hope we see more of Ashildr in future, she has the potential to be a very interesting recurring character.
I found there was something really weird with this episode. Like the generally production and stuff. EG the sound felt off, the dialogue pacing seemed weird.
And the final dialogue between Maisie and the Doc could have some with being redrafted a few more times. How does offering to be the Doctors cleanup crew be a bad thing, or frenemies?
There was kind of a sense that this was the writer's first script for the show (well, this and last week's) and it wasn't quite as polished as it might have been in places. I honestly think it could have been better if The Lion King had been left out and the episode had just dealt with The Doctor trying to 'fix' the unbelievable mess he made of her life. The darker of immortality has been hinted at a few times between The Doc and Captain 's stories, but I think it was handled better here and I definitely think /hope there's more to this story still to be told.
As for the final exchange, I took that to basically say as long as Ashildr is doing the cleanup, she's representing everything The Doctor fails to do. Despite their 'friendship', I think she still resents him for abandoning her and he is ashamed that he did. So her doing what she's going to do is a constant reminder of his greatest failures and shames.
Okay. So having totally HATED the previous season. (Except for Mummy on the Orient Express) I am finally starting to enjoy Doctor who again. It's FINALLY back to the Doctor being the main attraction. Last season focused way too much on Clara, and I'm glad this is her last season. Capaldi is great as the Doctor, and all the episodes I've seen have been really good (UNderwater stuff and second part of that, 1st episode and the one from 2 weeks ago with the vikings).
Keep up the good work! (I still hate Missy though)
Compel wrote: I found there was something really weird with this episode. Like the generally production and stuff. EG the sound felt off, the dialogue pacing seemed weird.
I agree totally with this, especially the first quarter or so of the episode where I could barely hear the dialogue because the music was so damn loud.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, why was she at a school?
Maybe she decided to have children again?
That was her following Clara around, to show the Doctor "I'm watching you"
Couldn't make my mind up if I liked Maisie Williams. Not being a watcher of GoT is that how she always acts? I couldn't decide if she was acting in a very subtle manner or just not acting at all. It was like there were these flashes of brilliance and long periods of blank.
Maisie Williams is very young. She doesn't seem to have had any formal training. A lot of the best British actors get formal stage training (RADA, etc) and a lot of stage experience, as well as TV and film. The three techniques are very different.
I think Maisie Williams must be a natural actress who has been picking up technique through the stuff she has worked on, and perhaps needs more seasoning to achieve real stature. You often see this in young actors.
To be honest it is refreshing to see a female character who is not 'conventially beautiful'. She has a quirky, interesting face that has the potential to develop a lot of character.
Funny, I thought it was impressively dark without overdoing it. There were definitely a lot of elements that one might not expect from DW, but every now and then I love an episode or two that do bring up some real issues, so long as they're handled well. Which bit in particular did you think was unsuitable?
Great script, great acting, great series of twists at the end, probably the best episode of the Capaldi run in my books. Can't remember if I mentioned it before, but I really do like the fact that this series is comprised of 2-part episodes. Gives things a lot more time to develop, and so far they've all used that time well, there's not been nearly as many unnecessary/tangential scenes this year as last.
Personally, I just don't think that using imagery inspired by an active and real life apocalyptic death cult and then executing people (even if those people are in rubber suits), is appropriate for a family / childrens TV show.
I don't understand what you are talking about. If you feel strongly perhaps you should complain to the BBC.
I felt it had a strong element of reality drawn from the trials and tribulations of immigrants and refugees in modern Europe, which seemed an interesting commentary on social inclusion.
Watched this weeks and thought it was truely dire and franklly offensive
Trying to cover actual deep issues and problems like Immigration, terorism, the brutal civil war in Syria, death cults like ISIL in a childish and frankly pathetic way.
Sad days...............
Maybe they should hire an actual writing team or not try and deal with such things
I'm not sure what was 'childish' about the way those themes were covered. I was actually quite impressed at how they were handled, not rammed down our throats but equally not so lightly trodden that you could ignore them.
I'd also add that covering 'real' issues is not new ground for new or old DW, from the themes of depression in the Van Gogh one a few years ago to fascism and genocide in Genesis of the Daleks.
Honestly, if they'd kept it at the whole migration / integration aspect, I'd have been more for it.
But the whole terrorism aspect of the show, especially the 'execution' scene of the "moderate" zygons, who mere minutes ago looked as young girls / kids. That's just not necessary in a family show
Paradigm wrote: I'm not sure what was 'childish' about the way those themes were covered. I was actually quite impressed at how they were handled, not rammed down our throats but equally not so lightly trodden that you could ignore them.
I'd also add that covering 'real' issues is not new ground for new or old DW, from the themes of depression in the Van Gogh one a few years ago to fascism and genocide in Genesis of the Daleks.
I have absolutely no objection to any show covering difficutl issues - this did not. It make some sweeping, shallow and meaningless statements - likely using the present serious world problems as a obvious and frankly cynical way to try and generate interest and publicity. I am sure they would have made the plane be shot down over Egypt if they had filmed it later - just to make them "seem" relevent and right on.
There was no actual adressing or real discuson of the issues - everything they did was on the same level as "drugs are bad , m'kay" except without the ironic element. If they truely believe the shallow crap they were spouting on the show its no wonder the world is in such a sorry state.
Paradigm wrote: I'm not sure what was 'childish' about the way those themes were covered. I was actually quite impressed at how they were handled, not rammed down our throats but equally not so lightly trodden that you could ignore them.
I'd also add that covering 'real' issues is not new ground for new or old DW, from the themes of depression in the Van Gogh one a few years ago to fascism and genocide in Genesis of the Daleks.
I have absolutely no objection to any show covering difficutl issues - this did not. It make some sweeping, shallow and meaningless statements - likely using the present serious world problems as a obvious and frankly cynical way to try and generate interest and publicity. I am sure they would have made the plane be shot down over Egypt if they had filmed it later - just to make them "seem" relevent and right on.
There was no actual adressing or real discuson of the issues - everything they did was on the same level as "drugs are bad , m'kay" except without the ironic element. If they truely believe the shallow crap they were spouting on the show its no wonder the world is in such a sorry state.
I agree with Mr Morden
They were not covering real world issues. They were poking massive great big holes into the war on terror. The screenwriter was clearly just trying to project his opinion of world events without trying to present any balance and it was just cringeworthy. And what was with the storming of the church? Oh lets stand outside firing our weapons letting them know we are here! WTFF!! For me it was THE worst Dr Who episode I have ever watched.
I don't think I really cared for how they wrapped the Zygons with current events, but I did like the episode (2 part stories work so well with Capaldi's Doctor). I'm curious if any other episodes will have been started by Missy's actions. She killed Osgood and set this stuff off, she's got Daleks (presumably) in her pocket, and she controlled a whole sect of Cybermen. With how Michelle Gomez talked about this season at ComicCon, I'm betting she'll have her hands in a lot of groups/events coming up (as long as the Silence story line doesn't get dredged up again, though what's her face from the Mainframe would be cool to see).
Also, the final 2 episodes are called Heaven Sent and Hell Bent. I'm curious if the cat people will return, as their plot might have been a portal to hell.
I'm assuming the two final episodes will again feature Missy, given the 'Heaven' thing from last year. Really hoping it's just her vs The Doctor, though, no Cybermen or Daleks to get in the way. The will be the true test of whether she's worth of the title of The Master.
Kilkrazy wrote: You do realise it's a science fiction programme, not an episode of Panaroma.
Indeed, and given the how long ago this was probably made and the fact that migration to the UK has been a problem for nearly 2 decades doesn't really seem like the BBC is tapping into and particularly current zeitgeist. If they had drowning Zygon children in the Channel those chaps might have a point.
This episode was intriguing though and worked for me, aside from the terrible church scene and UNITs predilection for having unconvincing middle aged women seeming in all commanding roles. All in all I find UNIT a bit disappoint whenever they are in Dr Who these days.
I have been watching some of the John Pertwee episodes (Terror of the Autons) on Horror and at least in those days the would shot their guns and lob the occasional grenade before dying in droves, these days they just seem to dress like US cops that have gone OTT on the Tacti-Cool gear because the kids from the local estate are giving them some agro.
If they're going to use UNIT then the damn well should be kitted out with some SLR's, GPMG's, millions of grenades and a roister-doyster Brigadier to call in some effective Airstrikes!
I'm not sure if I know how to phrase this, but is anyone slightly relieved that the Doctor is a little more transparent about liking people this season?
I thought it was great that we'd gone from pet-time lord to the cold mad feary Doctor, but I did wonder if we then had a disconnect in understanding for children. Eccentricity and the distracted lack of understanding (play acted or serious) isn't the same as outright coldness occasionally surfacing. I don't think he should be cuddly, but I do always think that he should be understandably approachable to young kids.
A little like how you want a kid to know they can approach a cop if lost.
I did understand the use of it, but with it being a family show, I wondered whether kids picked up on that sensation or not.
notprop wrote: Indeed, and given the how long ago this was probably made ...
I think that a good part of this season's filming was possibly completed as far back as early December, to give an idea. Can't pretend I know which, just that they had finished filming in the TARDIS and opened it (VERY briefly) to public tours.
They couldn't have allowed that if there was a chance it would damage anything or dick with continuity. Not-so-stealth brag that I've been in there (no touching, sadly).
So this is an uncomfortable and coincidental direct comparison with current events, and if course the current crisis did not appear overnight. But they could not have guessed nearly a year ago, that things would have escalated to this level. I too felt strange about watching it.
I wonder if they will receive complaints?
I saw a bunch of blobby shape-shifting aliens disintegrating people by electric blasts from their fingertips, or putting them in pods. It looked pretty much like SF to me.
the brilliant speech from the Doctor in the Black Archive
But one thing bugs me. When did Clara move back to the council estate? In Last Christmas she's shown living in a house, and now she's back in her old flat?
Kilkrazy wrote: I saw a bunch of blobby shape-shifting aliens disintegrating people by electric blasts from their fingertips, or putting them in pods. It looked pretty much like SF to me.
As I thought I made absoluetly clear I had no issue with the sci-fi elements - although as usual the plot holes were more evident than the actual plot.....
its the pathetic attemts at commentry on actual issues that I (and it seems others) found offensive.
statu wrote: I liked the Zygon Inversion, especially
Spoiler:
the brilliant speech from the Doctor in the Black Archive
Yeah, that scene was all kinds of epic. Capaldi's Doctor really hasn't been given enough opportunities in the scripts to go full badass and totally capture the scene just by talking, but when he does get that chance, it is so very awesome. I still feel he's lacking a signature theme like Tennant and Smith had, though, that would have really complemented that scene.
Wait, When has recent Doctor Who been "A Kids Shot" Im sure alot of what they has done isnt kid friendly. Like the pig people.
Anyway. Anyone feeling like this feels like less than the doctor this season?
The Tardis has barely shown up at all the only time it was used was the 3rd episode really. And no Screwdriver :(
Also, the Zygon uprising has happened 15 times so far? You think the doctor after the 6th will have a more permanent solution.
Anyway. Anyone feeling like this feels like less than the doctor this season?
The Tardis has barely shown up at all the only time it was used was the 3rd episode really. And no Screwdriver :(
Which is great. Deus Ex TARIDS/Sonic was getting very, very old, so the fact they're changing it up can only be a good thing. It's hardly new territory, either; Dr 3 did several series without a TARDIS just working at contemporary unit, and Drs 1 and 5 never used a screwdriver at all! 10 and particularly 11 overused them, so I like the fact that 12 isn't.
Also, the Zygon uprising has happened 15 times so far? You think the doctor after the 6th will have a more permanent solution.
I think he meant that conversation has happened 15 times in that room, not that there have been 15 attempted Zygon revolutions in the space of 2 years...
But one thing bugs me. When did Clara move back to the council estate? In Last Christmas she's shown living in a house, and now she's back in her old flat?
That was in the dream sequence, where she a life with Danny Pink.
The only thing that really bothered me was that the Doctor asked Osgood which one was real. He himself stated that they were both Osgood and Zygon at the same time, a Hybrid.I feel like the fact that he asked in the end went directly in the face of him understanding the importance of the Osgoods earlier in the episode.
Interesting article. Clara ASSUMES that the doctors visits are chronological. It is very possible the doctor has already seen Clara die and he visits her out of order and she doesn't know... or hasn't figured it out yet. Like he is trying out experiments in changing time in an attempt to save her.
I think that rather sudden change of mind regarding that might have been the whole 'Hybrid' thing cropping up again, and suddenly realising it was important.
If that does play out like that, then I hope that they
Spoiler:
Actually do kill Clara. Coleman has been great this series, but I think it's high time there was some real tragedy for a companion. Martha and Rose essentially got 'Happily Ever Afters', as did Amy and Rory in a sense, and Donna's mind-wipe, while poignant at the time, still gave her another chance at life. I wouldn't be averse to Clara actually dying, that would work rather well with Capaldi's Doctor's character arc, I think.
Interesting that the article mentioned Episode 11 will be purely The Doctor, with no companion or guest cast, if that's to be taken literally and we get Capaldi on his own for the whole episode in whatever manner, bring it on! I think he could certainly pull off a 100% solo episode with the right writing.
But one thing bugs me. When did Clara move back to the council estate? In Last Christmas she's shown living in a house, and now she's back in her old flat?
That was in the dream sequence, where she a life with Danny Pink.
.
She was also in the house though when the doctor found her at the end though
As was said earlier though, it could have been her Nans or something
But one thing bugs me. When did Clara move back to the council estate? In Last Christmas she's shown living in a house, and now she's back in her old flat?
That was in the dream sequence, where she a life with Danny Pink.
.
She was also in the house though when the doctor found her at the end though
As was said earlier though, it could have been her Nans or something
I just assumed it was her apartment bedroom. I didn't care enough for the special to really pay attention to the details, just the "don't let facts get int he way of a good story" part.
Damn it, BBC, you were doing so well! And then you go and dump that load of rubbish all over us! I am so very, very glad this was a one-off rather than a 2-part like the rest.
Spoiler:
Monsters made out of sleep dust? Who the feth thought that was in any way a compelling or even sane plot device?Dr Who gets away with a lot of ridiculousness, but that is several steps too far. Sentient, living dust feeding images, which continued to look like cameras even when that makes no sense whatsoever, to a man who turned out to be made of sentient, living dust...
And the constant point of view shots were just annoying, a complete gimmick that added absolutely nothing to the episode in my opinion.
There were one or two decent ideas in there, but mired in so much nonsensical junk that they are better off forgotten... Even Capaldi doing Shakespearean monologues couldn't save this!
Ahem, rant over...
Still, next week's looks interesting, and quite possibly provides some significant evidence to the theory linked on the last page. All I'll say is, the suit is back...
The Doctor, Clara and the survivor ran away, the station was destroyed, but that didn't matter, because the baddies won and the human race is doomed to die in the 38th century.
Momotaro wrote: Thought the soldiers had a bit of a Cadian vibe to their uniforms.
That's because it became impossible to imagine a completely original human future soldier in about 1986, after the release of Aliens. At least, if it is possible, no-one seems to have done it yet.
The problem is that a human kitted out for war looks like a human kitted out for war. Soldiers throughout history have had a helmet and armour if they could afford them, a couple of weapons and some equipment slung on a harness, and so on. Thus, our understanding of what a soldier looks like has a very strong bias
I can imagine a soldier in something like Woody Allen's bubble suit from The Sleeper. This soldier would bounce around the battlefield, attacking by jumping on enemies like Super Mario, or squirting corrosive gas at them out of valves on his suit, which is of course bullet-proof and defends against blasts by bouncing away.
But how silly would that look as a representation of a soldier?
The more likely scenario in 100 years is that we will fight wars with semi-autonomous drone robots that won't necessarily even be humanoid in form, controlled remotely by people wearing VR helmets.
The Doctor, Clara and the survivor ran away, the station was destroyed, but that didn't matter, because the baddies won and the human race is doomed to die in the 38th century.
That's what it looked like to me, which seemed a bit of a weird result as it would be a hiccup in human expansion into space, and it was clearly a one-off episode.
Oh god, please not Cybermen... not after last year...
Flatline was probably the best or second best episode from last series, though (along with Mummy on the Orient Express, by the same writer), so that's fine. And more Ashildr is a good thing too.
I really didn't like Flatline anywhere near as much as the Orient Express and Time Heist episodes.
Ashildr/Maisie Wililams has been a very mixed bag for me, but she'll probably be in the 2 part finale and maybe 1 more episode after this. I think she's very restricted by the setting and the writing (which is what was strangling Capaldi and Clara out last season).
Also, apparently the Christmas special will
Spoiler:
Not only feature River, but River won't know this version of the Doctor.
It's perplexing that in a series that has been of quite high quality thus far they left in that one?
It did seem very out of place, firstly just because of the whole tone and the gimmicky 'found footage' style, but also being a single episode in the wake of 4 2-parters (a choice that I love, gives the writers so much more time to develop plots, none of the 'oh, we're out of time, quick Deus Ex TARDIS/Sonic/Macguffin plot resolution' that plagued the last couple of series). Next weeks is also a one-off, but given where it seems this series is going, I imagine there will be a healthy does of setup for the finale.
It was apparently the 'money saver' episode of the series, so that explains the very limited cast and set, but the whole thing just felt like it was part of a totally different show.
Stories through the eyes (literally in this case) of supporting cast have worked well for several of the novels, as writing prose from the Doc's POV is inevitably difficult, but really didn't work on film if you ask me.
Lead writer: Lets come up with a new Bogeyman for Episode 7.
Writer #1: Hmmmm bogeys.......nah kids will like it but that's too gross for adults...Hmmmm, what's like that?
Writer #2's YTS placement lad: How about that gunk when you wake up?
Writer #2: Droolman?
Writer #2's YTS placement lad: Nah, like that but eye gunk!
Moffat: By jingo he's done it! The boys a genius...
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Paradigm wrote: ...It was apparently the 'money saver' episode of the series, so that explains the very limited cast and set, but the whole thing just felt like it was part of a totally different show...
Makes sense.
The whole set looked like it was the same as the recent underwater base they had.
Last night's episode of Doctor Who, Mark Gatiss' Sleep No More, has ignited a fair amount of discussion already, if the comments below our review are anything to go by. We'd argue it's not an entirely successful episode of the show, albeit with interesting ideas bubbling away.
We attended a round table interview with Mark Gatiss ahead of the episode's transmission, and asked him if he had any other ideas for Doctor Who episodes bubbling away.
"Steven's asked me if I'd write a sequel to this one, which I find in a 'yeti' way very exciting", he told us.
He added that "there's a bit of a history of groupings. There's two Mara stories in Peter Davison's time. Two yeti stories. It would be nice to. I'd love to. I think the idea is good and the monsters are great so it would be quite nice. I suppose you'd have to do a Web Of Fear-type thing where you ask where else could they go?
But the Doctor loses in this episode. And that's an unusual place to be. And so it also needs some closure", he said. Our full piece with Mark Gatiss will be live on the site tomorrow.
my emphasis.
... thought there was something a bit ...rushed?... odd about the ending.
Momotaro wrote: Thought the soldiers had a bit of a Cadian vibe to their uniforms.
That's because it became impossible to imagine a completely original human future soldier in about 1986, after the release of Aliens. At least, if it is possible, no-one seems to have done it yet.
The problem is that a human kitted out for war looks like a human kitted out for war. Soldiers throughout history have had a helmet and armour if they could afford them, a couple of weapons and some equipment slung on a harness, and so on. Thus, our understanding of what a soldier looks like has a very strong bias
I can imagine a soldier in something like Woody Allen's bubble suit from The Sleeper. This soldier would bounce around the battlefield, attacking by jumping on enemies like Super Mario, or squirting corrosive gas at them out of valves on his suit, which is of course bullet-proof and defends against blasts by bouncing away.
But how silly would that look as a representation of a soldier?
The more likely scenario in 100 years is that we will fight wars with semi-autonomous drone robots that won't necessarily even be humanoid in form, controlled remotely by people wearing VR helmets.
Errr... I thought the helmets looked a little similar.
But clearly you have a lot to say on the matter. Don't let me stop you, you seem to be having fun...
Besides,we all know that the Cadians would have sent in three armoured divisions for a rescue mission on a space station...
notprop wrote: Shame, it means the Eyegunkmen will be back.
'Hey guys, how do you follow the most ridiculous premise for a Dr Who villain since Absorbaloff (or perhaps the stupidity with the tree invasion last year)?'
'Dunno!'
'Got it! Leave people in suspense! Keep them guessing!'
'How so?'
'Well, they'll be afraid to get too excited next year, as they know that no matter how good the series gets, somewhere along the line they're going to have to sit through Eye-Bogeyman II: This Time It's Personal!'
the Doctor wrote:Shakespeare. He really knew his stuff. They all did. The Ancients. The poets. All those sad songs. All those lullabies. Sneezing is essential to every sentient being in the universe. But to humans. Greedy, filthy, stupid humans. It's an inconvenience to be bartered away. Well, now we know the truth. Sneezing isn't just a function. It's blessed. Every time we dive deep into that inky pool, deep into the folds of our handkerchiefs. After every sneeze, we sniffle and wipe the snot from our nose, and that keeps us safe. Safe from the monsters inside.
Oooh, that was a goodun! Possibly the best in the series so far.
Major spoilery stuff, DO NOT CLICK unless you've watched it.
Spoiler:
So passes Clara Oswald... and if they ruin that pretty much perfect final scene with some Deus Ex Time Travel cop out, it will be an absolute travesty. Fantastic acting from both Coleman and Capaldi and a side of Murray Gold's score catapults that into the ranks of the best scenes in NuWho.
The only thing that slightly confuses me is that the handing over of the confession dial, the suit rather than the hoodie and the script as a whole seemed to suggest that, as per the theory a page or two back, this took place before the rest of the series from the Doctor's perceptive. And yet he already knows about Ashildr, implying that either it's not or just that the chronology is completely random, with her two previous episodes taking place before this (in Doctor-time). Still, I expect the next two weeks will cover that.
The premise of the alien 'refugee camp' was rather neat, especially with the 'misdirection filter' thing. I'd have liked to have seen a few more flashes of the true aliens under the holograms, but it got the point across. The raven thing was cool too.
Maybe a 'previously on' would have been handy then, cause I definitely did not put 2 and 2 together.
Spoiler:
So, presumably no word on the new companion then? I'm guessing we'll have Doctor on his own for the next episode, as advertised. Then probably Doctor+Missy team up, then River Song for Christmas, at which point a new companion will be shown in the last 5 minutes?
I didn't when she started out, partly due to retreading the same sub-plots they had with (insert mid-20s female companions since 2005 here), partly because she was a product of Moffat-esque 'make the companion the plot arc' period. However, with Capaldi I think she's been much better, and I will be sad to see her go (but at the same time, it was done very well, assuming there's no retcon/timey wimey shenanigans to ruin it next week or after).
I was hoping for Ashildr to become the next companion, but I'm pretty sure that's not happening now! Just hopefully not another London-based mid-20s female. Do something different for once!
..think we might have at least one more episode with her in maybe, looking at the cover anyway.
Did you note how casual the Dr was about her hanging out -- and nearly falling from -- the Tardis.
.. and when he was looking through the cards, it was Clara he was looking at when he said there's no easy way to tell someone they're going to die.
She still might have splinters or fragments of herself scattered about through time though yes ?
perhaps in a diner or similar ?
Raven seems to tie quite neatly into Norse mythology... Ahildr's idea or fault perhaps ?
Clara's death was almost the opposite of a timelord death too in some ways -- same stance but no massive burst of light, but a crawling darkness instead.
I didn't when she started out, partly due to retreading the same sub-plots they had with (insert mid-20s female companions since 2005 here), partly because she was a product of Moffat-esque 'make the companion the plot arc' period. However, with Capaldi I think she's been much better, and I will be sad to see her go (but at the same time, it was done very well, assuming there's no retcon/timey wimey shenanigans to ruin it next week or after).
I was hoping for Ashildr to become the next companion, but I'm pretty sure that's not happening now! Just hopefully not another London-based mid-20s female. Do something different for once!
The thing I dislike about Clara is the character arc that involves her returning from the grave to save the universe again and again and again, like some of the previous companions in the new era Dr. Who.
That aside, the character herself is okay, but I note my daughter (age 16) hates Clara so much that she actually wanted her to die in a particularly gruesome, painful way, because of the way she is always running off thinking she can handle things by herself, and being useless, and blaming Dr Who when things g wrong.
In this case Clara has tried to handle things herself -- smug, smug smug -- and made a big mistake.
However I think there is a chance she will return from the grave again, and decide to stop being a companion because finally she has realised it is too dangerous.
I like the actress and she has done a really good job, but she can only perform the part as written for her.
I liked Clara after seeing her in person at Comic-Con.
But yes, please don't pick a modern girl from England. You all of space and time to friggin get a companion and its always modern England.
A serious lack of imagination.
Kilkrazy wrote: They've had a bit of variation in the past. One of the early companions was a Jacobite Rebellion era Highlander, complete with kilt.
Leela (I think her name was something like that) was a barbaric girl from the future. I loved her as the companion because her simple way of looking at things often saw things the Doctor over looked.
Kilkrazy wrote: They've had a bit of variation in the past. One of the early companions was a Jacobite Rebellion era Highlander, complete with kilt.
Leela (I think her name was something like that) was a barbaric girl from the future. I loved her as the companion because her simple way of looking at things often saw things the Doctor over looked.
And spent most of the time trying to stab anything that moved. Time Lords, Sontarons, Service Droids...
But yeah, please let's have a companion that is a) not just another Clara/Amy/Rose and b) doesn't exist at the centre of a plot arc.
Personally I'd be fine with the Doctor going solo and switching up supporting cast from episdoe to episode. If they stick with the 2-part as the norm style definitely think they could build up a convincing supporting cast for each story.
She wasnt that great in Smiths run. Them being both overly cheerful kinda made it Meh.
but with capaldis cynicism at first, it made her a great contrast. And you can see, capaldi slowly grew nicer.
Wow. What an episode. On its own, perfectly written and not just carried off but hit out of the park by Capaldi. The concept was great, the execution practically flawless.
And the implications... well..
Spoiler:
I guess 8's line about being half human wasn't a joke...)
Steve Moffatt has come to believe his own propaganda, and sees himself as the bearer of the great Doctor Who Canon Flame into the future development of the gospel.
This can't be the first time Doctor Who has done a
Spoiler:
Groundhog Day story?
To be honest, I'm getting a bit fed up of it, it seems every popular TV show with a science fictioney / timey wimey / magical bent tries to shoehorn one in nowadays.
WTF did they do to piss him off? Were they responsible for the Raven that killed Clara? What do they have to do with it? I thought this was about the Doctor taking revenge.
Very, very good episode, even if it felt pretty dark overall. The only problem I have is that
Spoiler:
Moffat seems intent to rewrite every canonical/previously established part of the Doctor's timeline. Seriously, we've seen him as a child, where Clara helped him conquer his fears, we've seen Clara throughout his entire timeline, and now we're getting the full lifestory of why the Doctor left Gallifrey. Can he not just write for the Doctor in the present?
WTF did they do to piss him off? Were they responsible for the Raven that killed Clara? What do they have to do with it? I thought this was about the Doctor taking revenge.
well technically, he already did that
probably yes, who else would have a tardis lock lying around to trap the doctor.
I really liked this episode and I felt the writing was a step up from the rest of the season (maybe because they only had to write for 1 character). The Veil was explained nice and quickly and the mind scenes were great (though the first thing my roommate said was "Oh! Like on Sherlock!").
My only real issues:
Spoiler:
The Doctor is.... the Hybrid and will ruin Gallifrey? What? I think this could turn out worse than the Tesselecta cop out and all that.
WTF did they do to piss him off? Were they responsible for the Raven that killed Clara? What do they have to do with it? I thought this was about the Doctor taking revenge.
You mean other than have a direct part to play in getting his best friend killed before imprisoning him in his own personal hell for 2 billion years just to force him to save them?
And I have a theory about the whole Hybrid thing. It's only speculation going off the trailer/some previous lines, but if right it's probably a pretty major spoiler, so click at your own risk:
Spoiler:
I think Ashildr is the Doctor's mother. She's in the trailer for last week, the Doctor is presumably half human, and how else would a human be integrated into Gallifreyan culture than by being immortal? It makes sense when you think about it...
In the last David Tennant episode, where the Time Lords tried to come back, the woman who kept telling Wilfred he needed to save the Doctor was confirmed to be his mother by Russell T. Davies. Of course, Moffat might not care about that at all.
I was under the impression that was said by RTD, but not 'official' canon as it wasn't in the episode... I might be wrong, though. And yeah, I wouldn't put it past Moffat to completely disregard previous episodes, he's done it many times before.
Oh, good one! Hadn't thought of that! He did point out that she was
Spoiler:
'like a Hybrid'
However
Spoiler:
I still think he meant himself, simply as it was implied that a) he already knew about the prophecy and b) it was something directly related to him, hence his willingness to die rather than confess it.
Although it really could be either. This is Moffat, after all, who has a tendency to bluff his double bluffs into triple bluffs and all too regularly get into overly convoluted nonsense, but that seems so far to have been avoided here.
True, I think past series' have just made me look immediately for the double bluff.
Spoiler:
If it is Ishildur then it is kind of directly related to him as he basically created her. There are other possibilities as I assume she still has the second Mire chip that she has not yet given out...so there is another potential Hybrid on the horizon
Ah, no, I meant in her second episode, when she was a highwayman and the lion people invaded... which in hindsight, sounds terrible, which it really wasn't!
I think it's going to end up being a metaphysical thing, not literal. He's not going to become a hybrid or turn into a hybrid, or transform, or whatever. It's all going to come down to one or two quippy lines, with triumphant music behind him.
Something like:
"This is it, don't you understand what the hybrid is? It's not being a full timelord, because I'm not. I'm better than that, I'm more than some aloof, self righteous timelord. My friends, my *human* friends, my time with Clara, Amy, Rory, <list of people>, make me more than that. Those dumb, stupid little apes, they're a part of me, I'm a part of them. I'm The Hybrid. Half timelord, half human and that's why you'll never win."
Might be the first time that I swore out loud at an episode, this week.
I guessed how the skulls had come to be, the first time we saw them. Thought that the rules must not extend outside the building. But I didn't see the ending, bigger plan, etc, coming.
Did anyone see the reveal from early on, and work out what was going on? I'm not too experienced with sci fi, so I didn't.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Might be the first time that I swore out loud at an episode, this week.
I guessed how the skulls had come to be, the first time we saw them. Thought that the rules must not extend outside the building. But I didn't see the ending, bigger plan, etc, coming.
Did anyone see the reveal from early on, and work out what was going on? I'm not too experienced with sci fi, so I didn't.
I figured out a few bits:
Spoiler:
- That the castle was his confession dial. That seemed obvious to me as soon as it became apparent that The Veil stopped when he made a confession.
- I figured it would be Gallifrey on the other side of the wall, but that's in part due to the fact the BBC oh-so-subtly put words to the effect of 'If the Doctor can survive, Gallifrey is waiting' in the episode description... Even without that, I probably would have got it.
- I was thinking the skulls must all be his, and that by extension, it was The Doctor that called himself back via the teleport every time,
But I always think the mark of a good episode is that even when you've figured it out, you're still every bit as interested, and this week certainly lived up to that.
Buttery Commissar wrote: Might be the first time that I swore out loud at an episode, this week.
I guessed how the skulls had come to be, the first time we saw them. Thought that the rules must not extend outside the building. But I didn't see the ending, bigger plan, etc, coming.
Did anyone see the reveal from early on, and work out what was going on? I'm not too experienced with sci fi, so I didn't.
I figured out a few bits:
Spoiler:
- That the castle was his confession dial. That seemed obvious to me as soon as it became apparent that The Veil stopped when he made a confession.
- I figured it would be Gallifrey on the other side of the wall, but that's in part due to the fact the BBC oh-so-subtly put words to the effect of 'If the Doctor can survive, Gallifrey is waiting' in the episode description... Even without that, I probably would have got it.
- I was thinking the skulls must all be his, and that by extension, it was The Doctor that called himself back via the teleport every time,
But I always think the mark of a good episode is that even when you've figured it out, you're still every bit as interested, and this week certainly lived up to that.
Truth there. I hadn't seen the description, since the bbc spoiled the previous episode on Facebook, I've been cagey.
Good spot on the first one, I didn't catch that as I didn't grasp how it physically worked.
I thought that
Spoiler:
the skulls were his from every failure, and that the castle must reset internally but not externally. I also though he'd left himself the spades in the corridor.
I'm frustratingly not going to be home next Saturday until Sunday night. If anyone spoils it for me during the weekend, I'll be so very cross.
Compel wrote: I think it's going to end up being a metaphysical thing, not literal. He's not going to become a hybrid or turn into a hybrid, or transform, or whatever. It's all going to come down to one or two quippy lines, with triumphant music behind him.
Something like:
"This is it, don't you understand what the hybrid is? It's not being a full timelord, because I'm not. I'm better than that, I'm more than some aloof, self righteous timelord. My friends, my *human* friends, my time with Clara, Amy, Rory, <list of people>, make me more than that. Those dumb, stupid little apes, they're a part of me, I'm a part of them. I'm The Hybrid. Half timelord, half human and that's why you'll never win."
he's already a hybrid though, literally, it's been stated he's a 1/2 human 1/2 timelord thus a hybrid.
and Ishildur could end up being is mother, she's immortal after all, and with all the time the master has spent on earth ... now that's a moffat twist, or the doctor becomes his own father just so he can play his guitar and talk about another classic time paradox.
While the skulls were a cool and spooky clue as to what was going on since the exterior of the castle didn't reset by the time the bazillion years were up the pile of skulls in the sea outside should have been up to the top of the battlements where they always fell from
As I understand it, it's from a random line in that terrible film that noone watched, with Paul McGann the 8th Doctor.
Generally people disregard it as "The Doctor lies."
Apparently he's human "on his mothers side." - I'm sure, if they were ever to address that directly, it would just be a case of, "my mother taught me stuff."
I think it was also contradicted in one of the David Tennant specials, anyhow.
The McGann film wasn't that bad. It suffered from being an American take on a quintessentially British show, hence the unnecessary motorbike chase and gunfights, but there have been episode of both the new and old Who that have been much, much worse. McGann himself got the short end of the stick, I think in the right hands he could have been an excellent Doctor (which is why I still hope in vain for a Time War spin-off, with Mcgann for the first series or so and then John Hurt...).
Is anyone else thinking the whole 'the hybrid will stand in the ruins of Gallifrey and destroy a million hearts to fix his own' thing, is actually a reference to the time war, and the way the doctor trapped Gallifrey, which whilst it saved the time lords, must have broke their hearts, in that they were stuck there and unable to do anything? He used/didn't use the moment whilst Gallifrey was largely in ruins, and you could claim he saved Gallifrey so that he wouldn't be the last time lord, and have the guilt of destroying his own people, which would have fixed his heart
Paradigm wrote: McGann himself got the short end of the stick, I think in the right hands he could have been an excellent Doctor (which is why I still hope in vain for a Time War spin-off, with Mcgann for the first series or so and then John Hurt...).
He has done a fair bit of work on Dr Who audio dramas, which are supposedly quite good... I've been meaning to check them out for a while now. Might have to track some down for Christmas.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: While the skulls were a cool and spooky clue as to what was going on since the exterior of the castle didn't reset by the time the bazillion years were up the pile of skulls in the sea outside should have been up to the top of the battlements where they always fell from
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: While the skulls were a cool and spooky clue as to what was going on since the exterior of the castle didn't reset by the time the bazillion years were up the pile of skulls in the sea outside should have been up to the top of the battlements where they always fell from
Currents maybe?
It may be that the skulls just reset like everything else. The skulls are just there to frighten the doctor by showing him that countless people before him have failed to escape.
If they did not reset, the ocean around the castle would have filled up long before the 1,000,000,000+ years had passed, making the doctor's heroic dive out the window a very short and painful action.
Except, if the skulls reset every time, they they should have never been there.
Infact, how, when this first happened, did the doctor see the bird symbol if he wasn't there to write it?
How did he know the first time to.........argh this is so confusing
hotsauceman1 wrote: Except, if the skulls reset every time, they they should have never been there.
Infact, how, when this first happened, did the doctor see the bird symbol if he wasn't there to write it?
How did he know the first time to.........argh this is so confusing
The rooms mostly reset, but obviously not every time or at least not every room. Skulls are outside a room so they wouldn't reset, the clothes were ready for him and didn't reset, bird note was in the teleporter room didn't reset.
Also, I imagine the first time he spent a bit more time figuring things out. Also, a bit more time naked or wet (since there were no dry clothes). The first time was, in fact, probably the hardest since he had very few hints.
Almost certainly. River isn't in next week's as far as we know, but she is in the Christmas episode. There are a fair few fan-made trailers around as opposed to the official ones, are you sure it wasn't one of those you saw?
Well that was... an unexpected direction for them to go in. But other than
Spoiler:
the new sonic, which is ugly as hell, and the idea of Clara and Ashildr flying round time and space in a diner, which is just a rather massive loose end to leave hanging
it was rather good. I think I need to watch it again to really 'get' it though.
Unless The doctor is his own father or something where he has River Song as a wife, and has a hybrid child which ends up being him or something wibbily wobbily.
Loose end, or spin off material? Or maybe, it's just a big universe. Let Ashildr and Clara go off and have their own continuing adventures. Maybe a book or three.
A few loose ends, but I quite like sending off Ashildr and Clara to join the Doctor's Daughter in the vastness of time and space.
It gets them out of the story with dignity and grace.
Well, to be fair, I'd have been perfectly happy with Clara's death from two weeks ago just having stuck. It was pretty much perfect. However, this was handled well enough that I don't mind, and it does complete the arc of her 'becoming' the Doctor. And I guess that as the universe hasn't exploded, she does eventually return to Trap Street to die anyway.
Have to say, that last scene with her and the Doctor in the TARDIS (Time and Relative Diner In Space) was pretty damn fantastic acting from the both of them, one of the most moving scenes in recent years (perhaps even topping Tennant's rage against the dying of the light in End of Time). As far as going out on a high note goes, that was bloody high.
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nkelsch wrote: So... Isn't River Song clearly the Hybrid?
Unless The doctor is his own father or something where he has River Song as a wife, and has a hybrid child which ends up being him or something wibbily wobbily.
The Hybrid (it is suggested) is The Doctor and Clara. By the end, they essentially are each other, one entity, half human, half time lord. I did like the ambiguity surrounding it; like all good prophecies, there are multiple interpretations. Ashildr, half human and half Mire, was standing in the ruins of Gallifrey. It was hinted that the Doctor himself is genuinely half human, and he did conquer it.
Capaldi and Coleman have been my favourite Doctor - Companion duo. I'll be sad to see her gone, though she couldn't have had a better send off. She really is Doctor Clara now.
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: Capaldi and Coleman have been my favourite Doctor - Companion duo. I'll be sad to see her gone, though she couldn't have had a better send off. She really is Doctor Clara now.
Agreed on all counts, although I'm quite surprised to realise it give how little I liked Clara at the start (although that was mostly in the writing). I think a lot of it comes down to the fact that they were something different to the last few. Up until Capaldi, there was always the somewhat out of place romantic element, except with Donna but I wasn't a huge fan of her as a character, and in Amy's later stuff. With Capaldi and Coleman, though, it was just two absolute best friends that, as we saw, would not let anything get between them, time, space or even death. And I think that's far more powerful than any of the Doctor-companion relationship we've had before. The strength of both of them as actors helps a lot too, obviously.
So I do hope they don't try and copy it with whoever comes next, and have the guts to do something different again.
Adric must be feeling a bit pissed off now then eh ?
not sure why you spoiled that part, it's ancient history.
Spoiler:
But no one liked him, not even the doctor he's the doctors version of wesley crusher No one would risk all of time and space for him.
Re: Adric and everyone else. I think that this is the difference between incarnations. Capaldi's doctor is sick of losing, especially people. If Capaldi had lost Adric, chances are he would have destroyed everything to try to get him back.
Also, I thought it was funny that they mentioned how long the doctor spent in the Confession. Technically, it was only probably a couple days for the last clone. For all of them, sure, a bajillion years. But for this doctor, just a couple days.
Also, I thought it was funny that they mentioned how long the doctor spent in the Confession. Technically, it was only probably a couple days for the last clone. For all of them, sure, a bajillion years. But for this doctor, just a couple days.
But didn't the Doctor regain his memory of his past lives/clones and the last bajillion years by the end? IIRC, the wikipedia synopsis' imply that. I skipped through the actual episode itself as I was in a hurry at the time.
Even if he has no memory, he worked it out each time, he knew he had been there that long, pounding away at the wall, and over those years never changes his mind
Also, I thought it was funny that they mentioned how long the doctor spent in the Confession. Technically, it was only probably a couple days for the last clone. For all of them, sure, a bajillion years. But for this doctor, just a couple days.
But didn't the Doctor regain his memory of his past lives/clones and the last bajillion years by the end? IIRC, the wikipedia synopsis' imply that. I skipped through the actual episode itself as I was in a hurry at the time.
You should definitely go back and watch it, it was really a standout episode. And yeah, there's a line in there about how at the same point in each 'cycle', he remembers the last time, and that's how he known what to do each time.
Technically that's nothing new. The Doctor was President of Gallifrey back in the Tom Baker days, in the stories The Invasion of Time andThe Deadly Assassin (which were the first time Gallifreyan culture was actually explored in the show, I believe). Both decent too, worth checking out.
But, as it was left, is he now presidents of both Galifrey and (unofficially) Earth?
The bodyguard was good. Asking first, then another canon-backed change.
I think this is probably the last we'll be seeing of Me and Clara, at least for a long time. This was the Sci Fi equivalent of riding off into the sunset. To bring them back onto the show would undermine that ending.
I wouldn't mind a one off special episode about Me and Claras' adventures before Clara returns to Gallifrey to die. But they should not cross paths with the Doctor again.
But, as it was left, is he now presidents of both Galifrey and (unofficially) Earth?
The bodyguard was good. Asking first, then another canon-backed change.
I think this is probably the last we'll be seeing of Me and Clara, at least for a long time. This was the Sci Fi equivalent of riding off into the sunset. To bring them back onto the show would undermine that ending.
To be honest, I wouldn't be averse to one more Clara episode in a few years time, to kind of do what they did with Rose in Stolen Earth/Journey's End (but better). Have the Doctor meet Clara, who then tells him who she is, he is 'healed' (and thus they can take the character in a new direction) and she finally returns to Gallifrey to die knowing she's saved the Doctor one last time.
reds8n wrote:..when they were in the cloisters did anyone else think one of the sound FX was a TIE-fighter ?
Watching it again, it did sound very much like the classic TIE sound effect.
) Sure , it had some silly moments, but I'm not watching Doctor Who for serious, cutting edge scifi.
Less said about the "plot" the better............
