Switch Theme:

Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit  [RSS] 



First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/25 23:32:19


Post by: Thargrim


The AT-ST pose is a tad of a bummer, but I understand with that base size the pose of its legs in motion might not work.

The snowspeeder looks good though. Is there more concrete date on when all of this is due out yet?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/25 23:42:24


Post by: H.B.M.C.


AT-STs and Snow Speeders.

What a shock.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/25 23:45:35


Post by: Azreal13


They produce/order half a bajillion metric tonnes a month of transparent plastic for X Wing and the Speeder can't have a clear stem?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/25 23:55:01


Post by: Aeneades


I was expecting it but still disappointed to see new cards being added to these starter duplicate figure sets to force people to buy them over extra copies of the base game.

Also have to agree with the weird decision on the flight base.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 02:49:45


Post by: SonicPara


Aeneades wrote:
I was expecting it but still disappointed to see new cards being added to these starter duplicate figure sets to force people to buy them over extra copies of the base game.

Also have to agree with the weird decision on the flight base.


They also just FAQ'd a X-Wing ship to no longer have certain upgrade slots which means that it can't even use some of the cards included in its packaging.

Marrying miniature to upgrade cards has always been an ugly practice of FFG's but now it is even worse. They really should just sell cards separately and reduce the cost of their models.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 05:23:01


Post by: jake


I'm fairly excited about this, although I'd like to see the T-47 next to some of the infantry, since it looks very small.

I am hoping that we'll see releases more than once a quarter. Every other month would be nice. I also hope that we see something unconventional and unexpected soon. I love classic stuff like speeder bikes and AT-ST, but I'm eager to see weirder stuff.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 05:51:25


Post by: ScarletRose


I am hoping that we'll see releases more than once a quarter. Every other month would be nice


Be careful what you wish for, X-wing is already scraping the bottom of the barrel for new ships and I can't imagine Legion won't run into a similar issue if it catches on. There's only so many different types of storm trooper you can make before it gets out of hand.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 06:12:11


Post by: MajorWesJanson


 jake wrote:
I'm fairly excited about this, although I'd like to see the T-47 next to some of the infantry, since it looks very small.


T-47s are very small. Look at how Luke and Dack stuff themselves into one.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 06:26:11


Post by: GoatboyBeta


 ScarletRose wrote:
I am hoping that we'll see releases more than once a quarter. Every other month would be nice


Be careful what you wish for, X-wing is already scraping the bottom of the barrel for new ships and I can't imagine Legion won't run into a similar issue if it catches on. There's only so many different types of storm trooper you can make before it gets out of hand.


The base game already has a "new" unit with the rebels using a Clone wars AT-RT walker. Just like Armada, Legion is a game that's going to have to lean pretty hard on the expanded universe right from the start.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 06:27:14


Post by: Manchu


Completely agree with Scarlett Rose. AT-RTs are okay because they feel like OT stuff (even though they are PT). But I kinda dread stuff from Rebels showing up.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 07:42:29


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Meh.

Nice enough models, still no excite for the game.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 08:34:53


Post by: jake


 ScarletRose wrote:
I am hoping that we'll see releases more than once a quarter. Every other month would be nice


Be careful what you wish for, X-wing is already scraping the bottom of the barrel for new ships and I can't imagine Legion won't run into a similar issue if it catches on. There's only so many different types of storm trooper you can make before it gets out of hand.


I don't see that as a problem. I love classic Star Wars stuff, but I also love seeing new and different and seldom used stuff. I'd rather have lots of releases with a few of them being a little unoriginal or silly than only a few releases every year. Armada's release schedule is maddening.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 jake wrote:
I'm fairly excited about this, although I'd like to see the T-47 next to some of the infantry, since it looks very small.


T-47s are very small. Look at how Luke and Dack stuff themselves into one.


I know, but these look super small to me. Like, way to small to be in scale with the infantry. I'm betting thats not true, but i'd love to see a photo next to the Infantry so i can get a sense of scale.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Manchu wrote:
Completely agree with Scarlett Rose. AT-RTs are okay because they feel like OT stuff (even though they are PT). But I kinda dread stuff from Rebels showing up.


What are you dreading from Rebels? I feel like the show has done a good job of bridging the gap between Clone Wars and the OT. I'm having trouble thinking of anything from the show I wouldn't want to see in this game.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 09:34:22


Post by: Yodhrin


 Manchu wrote:
Completely agree with Scarlett Rose. AT-RTs are okay because they feel like OT stuff (even though they are PT). But I kinda dread stuff from Rebels showing up.


Strongly disagree, some of the most interesting designs in the Star Wars IP come from the EU material, and considering we've already had confirmation that Legion isn't "official" ie does not have to adhere to the Disneycanon/Legends content split, they can heavily curate the designs we see as models for several years before they have to start barrel-scraping. Besides which Rebels isn't EU, it and the CGI Clone Wars are part of Disneycanon so are as official as the movies, not that it really matters. Not to mention that when they get to the barrel-scraping stage for OT-era material, they can instead go back and do a full Clone Wars range, or a NuTrilogy range, or both, or even go way way back and do several different Old Republic eras. If you think about it, doing a Rebels-to-Endor period justice, with a curated selection of the better EU material, would likely reach the barrel-scraping stage just as a new generation of gamers who's main experience of Star Wars will have been the new films get to the sort of age they'll be asking for models as gifts, so they can shift right into a NuT theme and have multiple films & books worth of stuff to draw on, and by that point probably a new CGI TV show as well(since this is the last Rebels season, and there's no reality in which Disney won't try and replicate its success with the NuT setting next year or the year after).

It's a whole different ballgame from X-Wing, where you have to reach pretty hard beyond the interceptor/fighter/bomber triad for the main factions and a lot of the EU ships are unaligned factions, minor factions, or one-offs; even basic infantry for both main factions can have multiple variations that are distinct visually, mechanically, or both, and there's far more scope for distinctive characters when you can actually, you know, see the character. They'll be able to be much more selective in what they draw from the EU.

I mean, think about just what we've seen in the Disneycanon that they can use:

Rebels: Rebel Troopers with environmental and Alderaanian-style variants, Rebel Commandos, Rebel Intelligence/SpecForce, and within those multiple different types of squad(infantry, heavy infantry, support weapon squads, jump troopers etc), plus Speederbike units, Airspeeders, U-Wings, reprogrammed droids, salvaged Clone Wars gear etc. All the different characters and officers too.

Imperials: Stormtroopers with their environmental variants, Scout Troopers, Shoretroopers, Death Troopers, Naval Troopers, again with all the various actual types/loadouts of squad, also Speederbikes & Airspeeders, both tracked and repulsorlift variants of the TX-225 Occupier, AT-STs, AT-PTs, AT-DPs, also Clone Wars gear but the better stuff and in better condition, combat droids of various types, etc, and also various characters and officer types.

If they're clever with the game mechanics and card abilities they can make even the "shared" units distinct; Imperial versions better maintained and equipped but more expensive, Rebel types cheaper to bring to the table but rag-tag and equipped with whatever they had to hand. Even if they released a unit box each for both factions every single month, there's 2 or 3 years worth of "OT-era" material before they even have to go near the Legends/EU stuff, and they could tack on another year or so of releases on there with just the really good EU stuff. I reckon after four or five years straight most folk would have had their fill of OT-era stuff anyway and then they can jump forward or back as their market research decrees.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 17:54:04


Post by: Manchu


I know it's not a Disney-approved way of thinking but to me anything that doesn't appear in a Star Wars motion picture is EU. My reasoning is, movies scripts tend to trump all else. But that's not really why I'm wary of EU stuff in Legion.

So to give an example, take the HWK-290. The design of that ship is entirely a function of PC graphics in 1995. Similarly, ships from Rebels look the way they do because they are designed for a stylized cartoon. This stuff is Star Warsy enough, I guess, within its own context. But - to my eyes at least - it doesn't fit well with the world of the films, which generally have a much higher level of quality in design.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 18:35:01


Post by: Kriswall


 Azreal13 wrote:
They produce/order half a bajillion metric tonnes a month of transparent plastic for X Wing and the Speeder can't have a clear stem?


I'm assuming that the stem actually is clear. It looks painted. The bases for Rebels start red and the stem looks like the same color as the base, which implies that both were primed at the same time. I'd be absolutely shocked to find out that flight stems are natively a weird blueish color.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 18:44:09


Post by: Platuan4th


 Manchu wrote:
I know it's not a Disney-approved way of thinking but to me anything that doesn't appear in a Star Wars motion picture is EU. My reasoning is, movies scripts tend to trump all else. But that's not really why I'm wary of EU stuff in Legion.

So to give an example, take the HWK-290. The design of that ship is entirely a function of PC graphics in 1995. Similarly, ships from Rebels look the way they do because they are designed for a stylized cartoon. This stuff is Star Warsy enough, I guess, within its own context. But - to my eyes at least - it doesn't fit well with the world of the films, which generally have a much higher level of quality in design.


The Ghost looked perfectly fine translated to film in Rogue One and fit in just fine to the ragtag nature of the Rebel fleet.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 18:52:43


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


 Yodhrin wrote:

I mean, think about just what we've seen in the Disneycanon that they can use:

Rebels: Rebel Troopers with environmental and Alderaanian-style variants, Rebel Commandos, Rebel Intelligence/SpecForce, and within those multiple different types of squad(infantry, heavy infantry, support weapon squads, jump troopers etc), plus Speederbike units, Airspeeders, U-Wings, reprogrammed droids, salvaged Clone Wars gear etc. All the different characters and officers too.

Imperials: Stormtroopers with their environmental variants, Scout Troopers, Shoretroopers, Death Troopers, Naval Troopers, again with all the various actual types/loadouts of squad, also Speederbikes & Airspeeders, both tracked and repulsorlift variants of the TX-225 Occupier, AT-STs, AT-PTs, AT-DPs, also Clone Wars gear but the better stuff and in better condition, combat droids of various types, etc, and also various characters and officer types.


Dark Trooper Phase 1-3, Imperial Super Commandos, Rebel Aligned Super Commandos, Royal Guard of all Flavors.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 19:10:49


Post by: Kalamadea


Good LORD you people are salty! It's an AT-ST and an airspeeder**, that look exactly like an AT-ST and an airspeeder**. The cards in packs thing sucks, but is a surprise to exactly zero people. I'm sure somebody will scan them, which is all I need, I already have 1/48th AT-STs and speeders aplenty, but it's nice to have official ones too.

For myself, I can't wait to see more non-movie troops and vehicles. Star Wars has always been more about the novels and comics and video games to me. Movies are great and all that, but the expanded universe is where it really shines




**I never understood why everyone treats them only as snowspeeders, they even mention in ESB that they were "having trouble adapting them to the cold". But since you only saw them on Hoth they got typecast


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 19:21:57


Post by: warboss


Is the rulebook going to be a free download for this like other FFG games (notably xwing)?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 19:35:41


Post by: LunarSol


I just wish there was an additional commander in the first wave.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 19:39:29


Post by: Azreal13


 Kalamadea wrote:
Good LORD you people are salty!


It's almost like people are taking their experiences with the producing company and other games based on the same property and applying them to this one, isn't it?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 19:44:00


Post by: LunarSol


 Azreal13 wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
Good LORD you people are salty!


It's almost like people are taking their experiences with the producing company and other games based on the same property and applying them to this one, isn't it?


It's really important there isn't cross faction upgrade purchases for this one. Buying everything is a significant issue when painting is required.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 19:45:26


Post by: str00dles1


 Kalamadea wrote:
Good LORD you people are salty! It's an AT-ST and an airspeeder**, that look exactly like an AT-ST and an airspeeder**. The cards in packs thing sucks, but is a surprise to exactly zero people. I'm sure somebody will scan them, which is all I need, I already have 1/48th AT-STs and speeders aplenty, but it's nice to have official ones too.

For myself, I can't wait to see more non-movie troops and vehicles. Star Wars has always been more about the novels and comics and video games to me. Movies are great and all that, but the expanded universe is where it really shines




**I never understood why everyone treats them only as snowspeeders, they even mention in ESB that they were "having trouble adapting them to the cold". But since you only saw them on Hoth they got typecast


Well its the internet, and its DAKKA. So there are endless mountains of saltiness, but its pretty justified. If you've been a FFG customer (not a fanboy) then you realize how bad this game/release is

Card packs is the way to go. FFG has done it for years and now GW is adopting it. It only really hurts your game.

Cool models still, but after Gencon demo its just an abomination of all of FFGs other games


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 19:52:27


Post by: Kriswall


 Azreal13 wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
Good LORD you people are salty!


It's almost like people are taking their experiences with the producing company and other games based on the same property and applying them to this one, isn't it?


Well... it seems like one of your complaints was that the flight stem wasn't clear when it's very obviously painted. Chances are very good that it is clear given that just about every flight stand the company produces for it's various games are clear... including Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada and Star Wars Imperial Assault.

Most of the complaints I've heard about Legion are along the lines of "OMG! This works exactly like everyone expected it to work, but I am going to act shocked and confused and angry anyways."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
str00dles1 wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
Good LORD you people are salty! It's an AT-ST and an airspeeder**, that look exactly like an AT-ST and an airspeeder**. The cards in packs thing sucks, but is a surprise to exactly zero people. I'm sure somebody will scan them, which is all I need, I already have 1/48th AT-STs and speeders aplenty, but it's nice to have official ones too.

For myself, I can't wait to see more non-movie troops and vehicles. Star Wars has always been more about the novels and comics and video games to me. Movies are great and all that, but the expanded universe is where it really shines




**I never understood why everyone treats them only as snowspeeders, they even mention in ESB that they were "having trouble adapting them to the cold". But since you only saw them on Hoth they got typecast


Well its the internet, and its DAKKA. So there are endless mountains of saltiness, but its pretty justified. If you've been a FFG customer (not a fanboy) then you realize how bad this game/release is

Card packs is the way to go. FFG has done it for years and now GW is adopting it. It only really hurts your game.

Cool models still, but after Gencon demo its just an abomination of all of FFGs other games


What a terrible decision on FFG's part. Why would they possibly have wanted to take a highly valued IP and design a rules system for it using parts from other highly commercially successful games? What craziness is this?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 20:05:25


Post by: Azreal13


 Kriswall wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
Good LORD you people are salty!


It's almost like people are taking their experiences with the producing company and other games based on the same property and applying them to this one, isn't it?


Well... it seems like one of your complaints was that the flight stem wasn't clear when it's very obviously painted. Chances are very good that it is clear given that just about every flight stand the company produces for it's various games are clear... including Star Wars X-Wing, Star Wars Armada and Star Wars Imperial Assault.


So, which is it, chances are it's clear or it's very obviously painted? Aside from the fact that I disagree that it's obviously painted, and painting a transparent component for box art is a highly unusual thing to do, it appears you're trying to tell me I'm wrong because your opinion is different, not out of any evidence to the contrary. Not a strong position to argue from.

Most of the complaints I've heard about Legion are along the lines of "OMG! This works exactly like everyone expected it to work, but I am going to act shocked and confused and angry anyways."


Listen harder. Many of the complaints are not this.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 20:07:54


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Shocked confused and angry?

I’m more disappointed.

I’m not at all a fan of the business model of having useful upgrade cards in kits I’m not otherwise fussed for.

X-Wing is particularly bad for this. Not only may I not be especially fussed for a model, but it might even be a model that’s for a different faction.

That to me is just mercenary as a sales tactic.

And worse? Sucky models are made good, but only if you buy a boxed set. Worst offender there is the Imperial Raider. Now it’s a gorgeous model, but it’s flipping expensive. And as it can only be used in Epic play, my chances for using it are somewhat reduced. But if I don’t want my iconic TIE Advanced to fly like a brick and hit like a feather, it’s a purchase I need to make.

That’s just bloody rude.

Armada isn’t quite as bad. From what I gather, the upgrades are kept within the Factions, so I won’t need to buy Imperial Ship X to make Rebel Ship A work properly. Better, but still the chance I may wind up buying ships just for the cards.

Shadespire? Marginally better than Armada, if only due to cost. Time will tell how essential it becomes to buy outside your Warband to get that truly killer card upon which the most flexible combo depends. If we don’t need to buy other Warbands, it may yet get a pass from me. But until we know, I’m not diving in.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 20:09:45


Post by: LunarSol


It's more that it works exactly like everyone expected it to work, but people are disappointed that its not different because they've grown to dislike the way FFG works.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 20:15:57


Post by: His Master's Voice


Ah, at least the AT-ST looks like something I could put together just for fun. Assuming the plastic they used is at least X-Wing levels of quality that is.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 20:18:09


Post by: Manchu


I really hope so. The RW plastics are not very impressive, in terms of the material.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 20:20:37


Post by: Kriswall


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Shocked confused and angry?

I’m more disappointed.

I’m not at all a fan of the business model of having useful upgrade cards in kits I’m not otherwise fussed for.

X-Wing is particularly bad for this. Not only may I not be especially fussed for a model, but it might even be a model that’s for a different faction.

That to me is just mercenary as a sales tactic.

And worse? Sucky models are made good, but only if you buy a boxed set. Worst offender there is the Imperial Raider. Now it’s a gorgeous model, but it’s flipping expensive. And as it can only be used in Epic play, my chances for using it are somewhat reduced. But if I don’t want my iconic TIE Advanced to fly like a brick and hit like a feather, it’s a purchase I need to make.

That’s just bloody rude.

Armada isn’t quite as bad. From what I gather, the upgrades are kept within the Factions, so I won’t need to buy Imperial Ship X to make Rebel Ship A work properly. Better, but still the chance I may wind up buying ships just for the cards.

Shadespire? Marginally better than Armada, if only due to cost. Time will tell how essential it becomes to buy outside your Warband to get that truly killer card upon which the most flexible combo depends. If we don’t need to buy other Warbands, it may yet get a pass from me. But until we know, I’m not diving in.



Star Wars X-Wing requires that you buy every product if you want ALL of the options for your chosen faction.
Star Wars Aramada requires that you buy every product if you want ALL of the options for your chosen faction.
Shadespire requires that you buy every warband if you want ALL of the options for your chosen faction.
Runewars, the most recent of these sorts of games from FFG, only requires that you buy the units from your chosen faction to get all of the options for that factions.

While we are waiting for confirmation, the belief is that Legion will work just like Runewars. If you only want to play Imperials, you'll only have to buy Imperial units. This is based on what we've seen so far from the available options. The neutral card options appear to be available in multiple kits.

For ALL of the above games, you can be quite competitive and win tournaments without owning ALL of the options. Nobody is making you buy anything and blaming a company for coming up with an effective tactic to make you want to buy something seems a little odd. That's literally their job. FFG's core function is to make you buy stuff... not to design games so that you can buy LESS stuff. If you don't like it, don't buy in.

I FAR prefer FFG's tactic of occasionally getting me to buy a box I don't really want for some cards to GW's tactic of forcing me to spend hundreds of dollars on rules just to field one cross faction army.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 20:22:58


Post by: Azreal13


 LunarSol wrote:
It's more that it works exactly like everyone expected it to work, but people are disappointed that its not different because they've grown to dislike the way FFG works.


Yeah, kinda. Not so much how FFG works in a business sense (although the whole "6 expansions in 6 weeks" thing they're now doing with L5R, which was announced just long enough after the starters went out to ensure people had probably picked them up already, hasn't helped me personally) but the fact that if you play a few different FFG games they all start to feel a bit samey is what's cooled my enthusiasm for this release.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 20:41:25


Post by: Kriswall


 Azreal13 wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
It's more that it works exactly like everyone expected it to work, but people are disappointed that its not different because they've grown to dislike the way FFG works.


Yeah, kinda. Not so much how FFG works in a business sense (although the whole "6 expansions in 6 weeks" thing they're now doing with L5R, which was announced just long enough after the starters went out to ensure people had probably picked them up already, hasn't helped me personally) but the fact that if you play a few different FFG games they all start to feel a bit samey is what's cooled my enthusiasm for this release.


The 'a bit samey' feeling is very valid, I think. It's how I feel about GW stuff. It's all the same game with different models. Every release feels like more of the same. Even 8th Edition just feels like more of the same. It's just 7th with some stuff from AoS mixed in. Realistically, it would take an extremely minor amount of house ruling to have a 40k army fight an AoS army.

With FFG, I tend to think of it as being great because I know I'll be able to pick up the rules quickly and that they'll incorporate all the things that worked from previous games plus some new things. The game itself feels completely different. X-Wing doesn't feel anything at all like Armada to me, despite sharing a lot of similar mechanics. 40k feels almost exactly like AoS.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 20:51:34


Post by: LunarSol


My issue is just that I've gotten to a place where I don't really want to manage cards anymore and X-Wing is the worst when it comes to managing a card collection. I really don't want to start something similar with Armada or Legion or Runewars or whatever. I'll be super happy once Malifaux gets their digital app out and would absolutely love something similar for FFG. (Really sad there isn't a better option on iOS in particular)


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 21:00:13


Post by: Yodhrin


I mean I'm pretty much already resigned to buying into this just for the models and actually playing using a saner, less exploitative set of rules, but this idea that it's completely ridiculous and outlandish for people to be annoyed at FFG for using an exploitative business model "bcuz capitalism brah" is just farcical.

Not being able to buy into a game you'd otherwise enjoy with an IP you really like because you don't want to support a company's gakky business practices is an entirely reasonable reason to be annoyed.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 21:02:16


Post by: Kalamadea


[quote}It's almost like people are taking their experiences with the producing company and other games based on the same property and applying them to this one, isn't it?

It's more like people are forgetting how this company releases games and are shocked that these expansion packs are exactly like every expansion pack FFG does

...but its pretty justified. If you've been a FFG customer (not a fanboy) then you realize how bad this game/release is

I am not a FFG fanboy, but I do have Xwing and IA. The cards are available online if you want to go through resellers, and the images are available if you just want to print out your own. DIY cards aren't "legal" at tourneys, but if you put in some effort making em look decent and put everything in sleeves you won't have any issues. Nobody I've ever gamed with is going to go for your throat over a "counterfeit" Advanced Sensors card.

It's more that it works exactly like everyone expected it to work, but people are disappointed that its not different because they've grown to dislike the way FFG works.

I get that, it was repeated so many times in the announcement thread that it's hard to miss. I kinda feel like it's on the official record and understood by this point. Azrael13's complaint about the flight stem not being clear I find to be rather nitpicky, but it's at least a comment about the new figures and not a rehash of the same "cards with minis" issue that people have complained about literally since the first X-wing wave



First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 21:15:42


Post by: Albertorius


 warboss wrote:
Is the rulebook going to be a free download for this like other FFG games (notably xwing)?

From what I know, yes. Also, not in the box.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 21:21:55


Post by: Azreal13


 Kalamadea wrote:
Spoiler:
It's almost like people are taking their experiences with the producing company and other games based on the same property and applying them to this one, isn't it?

It's more like people are forgetting how this company releases games and are shocked that these expansion packs are exactly like every expansion pack FFG does

...but its pretty justified. If you've been a FFG customer (not a fanboy) then you realize how bad this game/release is

I am not a FFG fanboy, but I do have Xwing and IA. The cards are available online if you want to go through resellers, and the images are available if you just want to print out your own. DIY cards aren't "legal" at tourneys, but if you put in some effort making em look decent and put everything in sleeves you won't have any issues. Nobody I've ever gamed with is going to go for your throat over a "counterfeit" Advanced Sensors card.

It's more that it works exactly like everyone expected it to work, but people are disappointed that its not different because they've grown to dislike the way FFG works.

I get that, it was repeated so many times in the announcement thread that it's hard to miss. I kinda feel like it's on the official record and understood by this point. Azrael13's complaint about the flight stem not being clear I find to be rather nitpicky, but it's at least a comment about the new figures and not a rehash of the same "cards with minis" issue that people have complained about literally since the first X-wing wave



Why does it have to be a complaint? It's an observation, I would say a fairly well founded one.

Remarking that it's unusual for a company that already makes a lot of transparent components not to outfit this kit with one being a little odd (or painting it in its publicity photos, which is equally odd) hardly ranks as a complaint!


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 21:34:20


Post by: Manchu


If the flight stem isn't clear, that would be very weird.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 22:02:32


Post by: warboss


 Albertorius wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Is the rulebook going to be a free download for this like other FFG games (notably xwing)?

From what I know, yes. Also, not in the box.


Thanks. So the rules won't be in the box? That's a big change if true.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 22:04:44


Post by: Kalamadea


The flight stem is clearly a separate piece stuck into the base, it might still be in the prototype stages, it might be clear, it might be hard opaque plastic. It's painted the same color as the base rim, so I hadn't given it any thought until I read "They produce/order half a bajillion metric tonnes a month of transparent plastic for X Wing and the Speeder can't have a clear stem?". If that's not a complaint then you have an odd way of "observing" things. It honestly wasn't even meant as an attack on you, I mostly brought it up to point out that you were at least discussing the product itself, and the "nitpicky" remark was mostly because there's really no way to tell from that picture if it is/isn't/won't be clear, and because it's such a minor issue to replace a stem if you prefer a certain look. Like Manchu says, if it isn't clear then it would be odd, but it's not hard to replace it with clear acrylic rod if you really like the clear look. I prefer brass rod or a large steel nail painted black, but that's mostly because I've had so many issues over the years with clear styrene being so damned brittle that I go out of my way to replace it.

As for the rulebook not being in the box, that WOULD be a big change. FFG's big push the last few years has been 2 seperate rulebooks, a "start playing" walkthrough and a "glossary of rules", and it's worked quite well so far. They've been releasing these as PDFs online as well, but not having physical rulebooks in a starter set for ANY miniatures game would be odd, let alone a FFG game. I wonder how much of this is true to retail release and how much is just that we're still seeing what are essentially prototypes previewed.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 23:06:53


Post by: GoatboyBeta


I wonder how they will handle the Luke and Vader models? With Armada and X-Wing releasing everything in the core box individually was not a problem as it was just another ship of the same type with a different pilot or crew. But with Legion the Luke and Vader models are of specific unique individuals so having multiples doesn't really appeal. FFG usual tactic of reboxing with different cards seems like a sure fire way to put off potential fans in this case. Different sculpts could work, especially with Luke who has several different looks(and power levels) through the movies. But the minor differences in Vaders costume probably wouldn't be noticeable in Legions scale(whatever that might be). So would a reposed Vader sell? Or could they keep two of SW most iconic characters as core box exclusives?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 23:15:46


Post by: LunarSol


100% core box exclusive I’d wager. Pretty sure runewars did the same.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 23:34:24


Post by: Vertrucio


None of this being an issue for me since I plan to print all the cards I need.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/26 23:43:28


Post by: AegisGrimm


I understand why they did it, but I don't get why the first Rebel vehicle is a flyer. Such a thing is entirely too fast for this scale of game, no matter what Games Workshop thinks.

Rebels should have got something like the hovertank from Rogue One, or something similar like seen all throughout the Clone Wars. Hell, even a landspeeder with a weapon attached, like the one used on Naboo, would make more sense than an Airspeeder.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 01:33:30


Post by: MrMoustaffa


The costs aren't as high as I expected them to be. Not a steal obviously, but at least they're roughly GW to a bit less, depending on what you use as a reference.

Big question will be how nice the minis are, and if the game can avoid the same fate that X-Wing has in terms of being married to the upgrade card, specialized dice, and movement template systems.

Also curious to see if they're going to release terrain.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 05:26:22


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


 AegisGrimm wrote:
I understand why they did it, but I don't get why the first Rebel vehicle is a flyer. Such a thing is entirely too fast for this scale of game, no matter what Games Workshop thinks.

Rebels should have got something like the hovertank from Rogue One, or something similar like seen all throughout the Clone Wars. Hell, even a landspeeder with a weapon attached, like the one used on Naboo, would make more sense than an Airspeeder.


Not sure what GW has to do with this game?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 07:33:17


Post by: Ancient Otter


 LunarSol wrote:
100% core box exclusive I’d wager. Pretty sure runewars did the same.


Yep, they released a separate Luke Skywalker a few waves later in RoTJ style.

I wonder if they will rebox Imperial Assault models with Legion cards...


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 07:48:37


Post by: Aeneades


Ancient Otter wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
100% core box exclusive I’d wager. Pretty sure runewars did the same.


Yep, they released a separate Luke Skywalker a few waves later in RoTJ style.

I wonder if they will rebox Imperial Assault models with Legion cards...


The Imperial Assault models are a different scale so this is extremely unlikely.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 09:38:15


Post by: Vertrucio


It's highly likely they're reusing the 3D sculpts, but having the molds cut large to preserve more detail, and I'm okay with that.

And that's about as much IA talk I want to stomach because I'm quite tired of the same IA complaints and yadda yadda yadda.

The airspeeder is a bit strange to see, but considering how fast you see the bikes operating at, it's not a stretch. It's certainly a better match up for the AT-ST than AT-ATs.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 09:43:52


Post by: Ancient Otter


 Vertrucio wrote:
It's highly likely they're reusing the 3D sculpts, but having the molds cut large to preserve more detail, and I'm okay with that.

And that's about as much IA talk I want to stomach because I'm quite tired of the same IA complaints and yadda yadda yadda.

The airspeeder is a bit strange to see, but considering how fast you see the bikes operating at, it's not a stretch. It's certainly a better match up for the AT-ST than AT-ATs.



I was't complaining, my apologies.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aeneades wrote:
Ancient Otter wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
100% core box exclusive I’d wager. Pretty sure runewars did the same.


Yep, they released a separate Luke Skywalker a few waves later in RoTJ style.

I wonder if they will rebox Imperial Assault models with Legion cards...


The Imperial Assault models are a different scale so this is extremely unlikely.


Ah, I didn't know that . Ta for that.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 09:48:32


Post by: Yodhrin


 LunarSol wrote:
100% core box exclusive I’d wager. Pretty sure runewars did the same.


I'd be perfectly happy with that TBH, having the movie characters in charge of every single tabletop battle will just get tiresome - they're awesome because we see them do awesome things, I have no desire to reenact the 347th time Luke Skywalker and a squad of Rebels had a minor skirmish with an Empire patrol while on a supply run to Planet Boringstory, or the 95th time Vader effortlessly butchered a minor Rebel cell at their safehouse in the City of Snores.

Special Characters should, by and large, be for awesome special scenarios. For your regular game with a couple of squads and a vehicle on each side skirmishing over some minor objective as part of the larger war, I prefer having more appropriate, "street level" commanders, people who's heroism in that situation actually has some meaning because they're not a Lord of the Sith or the last Jedi Knight or a Princess-General etc.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 10:37:45


Post by: AegisGrimm


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
I understand why they did it, but I don't get why the first Rebel vehicle is a flyer. Such a thing is entirely too fast for this scale of game, no matter what Games Workshop thinks.

Rebels should have got something like the hovertank from Rogue One, or something similar like seen all throughout the Clone Wars. Hell, even a landspeeder with a weapon attached, like the one used on Naboo, would make more sense than an Airspeeder.


Not sure what GW has to do with this game?


They have the same idea of having extremely fast aircraft practically circle-strafing in a game on a 4x6 board (3x4 in the case of legions), where the scales involved would normally mean that such models would enter and exit the board in one turn.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 10:43:12


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


But what's that got to do with FFG going with the Airspeeder?

I mean, I genuinely agree about fliers in 40k. But it's just an odd statement to make when criticising FFG.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 10:48:26


Post by: AegisGrimm


Because its nearly the same as having an X-wing in Legions. Legion really needs more than one squad of troops for each side before introducing flying vehicles.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 11:28:00


Post by: insaniak


GoatboyBeta wrote:
So would a reposed Vader sell?

Probably, particularly if it's packaged with different rules.

For the WotC Star Wars miniatures game, they released either a Vader or an Anakin in every set. The Vaders all had different rules, so tended to be snapped up despite just being the same guy in a different pose.

Legion is a slightly different beast, but people are suckers for variant miniatures, particularly if they're good...


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 14:12:01


Post by: Albertorius


 warboss wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Is the rulebook going to be a free download for this like other FFG games (notably xwing)?

From what I know, yes. Also, not in the box.


Thanks. So the rules won't be in the box? That's a big change if true.

I've been told that's what FFG is doing going forward, and they've actually done it already with other games (L5R LCG for example): Learn to play booklet in the box and full rules as a download.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
Because its nearly the same as having an X-wing in Legions. Legion really needs more than one squad of troops for each side before introducing flying vehicles.

Well, not exactly, as setting-wise an airspeeder is more similar to a copter than to a fighter.

Not that it matters much when they can pull 1,100 kph, though. OTOH it's pretty, it's iconic and game wise it fills a niche much more similar to a landspeeder than to an actual flyer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
I understand why they did it, but I don't get why the first Rebel vehicle is a flyer. Such a thing is entirely too fast for this scale of game, no matter what Games Workshop thinks.

Rebels should have got something like the hovertank from Rogue One, or something similar like seen all throughout the Clone Wars. Hell, even a landspeeder with a weapon attached, like the one used on Naboo, would make more sense than an Airspeeder.


Not sure what GW has to do with this game?


You mean, other than 40k being the main competitor for that thoughtspace?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 14:24:05


Post by: Kriswall


 Albertorius wrote:
You mean, other than 40k being the main competitor for that thoughtspace?


This isn't 40k. Go watch Rogue One. A blind man shoots a TIE Fighter out of the sky. I think it's reasonable to assume that a dozen Stormtroopers can potentially hit an Airspeeder, which again, is slower than a TIE Fighter... especially when trying to hit Infantry. Also, you may not like Flyers, but they work fine in 40k. I don't like them either, but it's not like the game table catches on fire when you try to field one. It just changes the play experience a little because you have a new target type to deal with.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 14:24:48


Post by: LunarSol


The sad thing to me is that I played so much Shadows of the Empire back in the day I just assume that playing the Airspeeder will mostly consist of trying to put enough shots into the AT-ST to take it down, getting a little too greedy and slamming into it instead.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 14:37:40


Post by: sithkhan


Aeneades wrote:
I was expecting it but still disappointed to see new cards being added to these starter duplicate figure sets to force people to buy them over extra copies of the base game.

Also have to agree with the weird decision on the flight base.

It looks like the flight stem is painted ...


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 14:44:15


Post by: Albertorius


 Kriswall wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
You mean, other than 40k being the main competitor for that thoughtspace?


This isn't 40k. Go watch Rogue One. A blind man shoots a TIE Fighter out of the sky. I think it's reasonable to assume that a dozen Stormtroopers can potentially hit an Airspeeder, which again, is slower than a TIE Fighter... especially when trying to hit Infantry. Also, you may not like Flyers, but they work fine in 40k. I don't like them either, but it's not like the game table catches on fire when you try to field one. It just changes the play experience a little because you have a new target type to deal with.

Not sure what part of what I said are you answering to, could you clarify? It looks like there's been a miscommunication somewhere.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 16:07:36


Post by: Kalamadea


 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
 AegisGrimm wrote:
I understand why they did it, but I don't get why the first Rebel vehicle is a flyer. Such a thing is entirely too fast for this scale of game, no matter what Games Workshop thinks.

Rebels should have got something like the hovertank from Rogue One, or something similar like seen all throughout the Clone Wars. Hell, even a landspeeder with a weapon attached, like the one used on Naboo, would make more sense than an Airspeeder.


Not sure what GW has to do with this game?


Seems pretty obvious that he's referring to what is essentially a flyer/attack aircraft in a 32mm ground combat game. They don't belong in 40K but were shoehorned in, and he's arguing that the airspeeder, being an aircraft, doesn't belong in Legions. I'd agree that they're a bit fast for a platoon skirmish game, but as was said they fit the role of attack helicopter more than fighter jets. Also, they're nearly as iconic as X-Wings and have been in every other Star Wars minatures game from West End to WotC, it was pretty much a given that they'd be amongst the first releases for Legion.

That said, I'm excited to see if there will be any hovertanks for either side like that n Rogue One or the Saber Tank


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 16:27:37


Post by: judgedoug


 Kalamadea wrote:
Good LORD you people are salty! It's an AT-ST and an airspeeder**, that look exactly like an AT-ST and an airspeeder**. The cards in packs thing sucks, but is a surprise to exactly zero people. I'm sure somebody will scan them, which is all I need, I already have 1/48th AT-STs and speeders aplenty, but it's nice to have official ones too.


Come for the news, get damp from the tears. Continues the fine tradition of "If only X, I would spend my life savings on it. What a shame. Hard pass" eye-rollers.

Models look fantastic. This game will sell about a bazillion copies to people that actually play miniatures games versus people who just like to hear themselves talk about playing miniatures games

So, question. I notice the ad copy says "In the Stormtroopers Unit Expansion, you’ll find seven Stormtrooper miniatures, identical to the ones included in the Star Wars: Legion Core Set, along with the unit card and upgrade cards that you need to add another unit of Stormtroopers to your army."
I'm trying to find any source where this means 100% that it will include pay-to-win cards that everyone is bitching about? Because the wording seems that it's cards that you use within the confines of listbuilding "that you need to add another unit of Stormtroopers to your army." Like how you can't use one Warjack card to represent two Warjacks in WMH.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/27 18:23:58


Post by: Turnip Jedi


 judgedoug wrote:
 Kalamadea wrote:
Good LORD you people are salty! It's an AT-ST and an airspeeder**, that look exactly like an AT-ST and an airspeeder**. The cards in packs thing sucks, but is a surprise to exactly zero people. I'm sure somebody will scan them, which is all I need, I already have 1/48th AT-STs and speeders aplenty, but it's nice to have official ones too.


Come for the news, get damp from the tears. Continues the fine tradition of "If only X, I would spend my life savings on it. What a shame. Hard pass" eye-rollers.

Models look fantastic. This game will sell about a bazillion copies to people that actually play miniatures games versus people who just like to hear themselves talk about playing miniatures games

So, question. I notice the ad copy says "In the Stormtroopers Unit Expansion, you’ll find seven Stormtrooper miniatures, identical to the ones included in the Star Wars: Legion Core Set, along with the unit card and upgrade cards that you need to add another unit of Stormtroopers to your army."
I'm trying to find any source where this means 100% that it will include pay-to-win cards that everyone is bitching about? Because the wording seems that it's cards that you use within the confines of listbuilding "that you need to add another unit of Stormtroopers to your army." Like how you can't use one Warjack card to represent two Warjacks in WMH.


Putting the 'good' cards in boxes that will sell anyway isn't the FFG way, the best cards are in slightly more niche releases that might struggle to sell without the card, aka the Starviper phenomenon (i think there's an equivalent in Armada too), so expect to see 'crappy droid thing' or 'gungan comedy troupe' holding the whizbang (double bonus if the cards are the 'wrong' faction)


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 11:39:16


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 Kriswall wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
You mean, other than 40k being the main competitor for that thoughtspace?


This isn't 40k. Go watch Rogue One. A blind man shoots a TIE Fighter out of the sky. I think it's reasonable to assume that a dozen Stormtroopers can potentially hit an Airspeeder, which again, is slower than a TIE Fighter... especially when trying to hit Infantry. Also, you may not like Flyers, but they work fine in 40k. I don't like them either, but it's not like the game table catches on fire when you try to field one. It just changes the play experience a little because you have a new target type to deal with.


Just for note, a TIE Fighters maximum speed is 1,200 km/h. That blind man (Chirrut) was using an extremely powerful weapon and is a force sensitive that uses the force to 'see' which allows him to actually shoot like he does, he doesn't exactly fire like a normal stormtrooper would.

The T-47 Airspeeder has a top speed of 1,100 km/h


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 13:40:22


Post by: Mezmaron


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Just for note, a TIE Fighters maximum speed is 1,200 km/h. That blind man (Chirrut) was using an extremely powerful weapon and is a force sensitive that uses the force to 'see' which allows him to actually shoot like he does, he doesn't exactly fire like a normal stormtrooper would.

The T-47 Airspeeder has a top speed of 1,100 km/h

Not much of a difference.

And the bigger question is what is an Airspeeder's minimum speed? It's fixed wing, so it can't really fill the role of a helicopter very easily.

It seems at this scale, the time flying across the 3x3 battlefield would be about a half-second. That is a total guess however - does someone want to do a quick calculation with some math?

Mez


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 14:51:45


Post by: Geifer


 Mezmaron wrote:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Just for note, a TIE Fighters maximum speed is 1,200 km/h. That blind man (Chirrut) was using an extremely powerful weapon and is a force sensitive that uses the force to 'see' which allows him to actually shoot like he does, he doesn't exactly fire like a normal stormtrooper would.

The T-47 Airspeeder has a top speed of 1,100 km/h

Not much of a difference.

And the bigger question is what is an Airspeeder's minimum speed? It's fixed wing, so it can't really fill the role of a helicopter very easily.

It seems at this scale, the time flying across the 3x3 battlefield would be about a half-second. That is a total guess however - does someone want to do a quick calculation with some math?

Mez


Since apparently I don't have anything better to do...

1,100km/h translates to about 305m/s.

36' at a scale of 1/50 (32mm) translates to 45m

So it takes about 0.15 seconds to get from one board edge to the opposite board edge.*



Edit: *Provided I got the scale about right. I'n bit familiar with the Imperial Assault models and they're the only ones I've seen a scale comparison with.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 15:08:37


Post by: MonkeyBallistic


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
 Kriswall wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
You mean, other than 40k being the main competitor for that thoughtspace?


This isn't 40k. Go watch Rogue One. A blind man shoots a TIE Fighter out of the sky. I think it's reasonable to assume that a dozen Stormtroopers can potentially hit an Airspeeder, which again, is slower than a TIE Fighter... especially when trying to hit Infantry. Also, you may not like Flyers, but they work fine in 40k. I don't like them either, but it's not like the game table catches on fire when you try to field one. It just changes the play experience a little because you have a new target type to deal with.


Just for note, a TIE Fighters maximum speed is 1,200 km/h. That blind man (Chirrut) was using an extremely powerful weapon and is a force sensitive that uses the force to 'see' which allows him to actually shoot like he does, he doesn't exactly fire like a normal stormtrooper would.

The T-47 Airspeeder has a top speed of 1,100 km/h


Where did you get these numbers from? I ask because every TIE fighter in every movie actually appears to be moving quite slowly. More like 100km/h than 1000.

The space battles in the films are based on WW1 dogfights because it’s far more exciting than watching a realistic sci fi space combat, which would probably have ships firing at ranges measured in kilometres towards enemies they can’t even see. My point is, don’t get too attached to the concept of realism in sci fi.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 15:24:59


Post by: BobtheInquisitor


 Mezmaron wrote:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Just for note, a TIE Fighters maximum speed is 1,200 km/h. That blind man (Chirrut) was using an extremely powerful weapon and is a force sensitive that uses the force to 'see' which allows him to actually shoot like he does, he doesn't exactly fire like a normal stormtrooper would.

The T-47 Airspeeder has a top speed of 1,100 km/h

Not much of a difference.

And the bigger question is what is an Airspeeder's minimum speed? It's fixed wing, so it can't really fill the role of a helicopter very easily.

It seems at this scale, the time flying across the 3x3 battlefield would be about a half-second. That is a total guess however - does someone want to do a quick calculation with some math?

Mez



What does the fixed wing have to do with anything? Luke's car had no wings, and the hovering probe droid was sort of jellyfish shaped. Repulsorlift technology makes wings completely irrelevant for anything other than high speed maneuvering...in which case, why was the vehicle as aerodynamic as a picnic table?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 16:13:50


Post by: Mezmaron


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

What does the fixed wing have to do with anything? Luke's car had no wings, and the hovering probe droid was sort of jellyfish shaped. Repulsorlift technology makes wings completely irrelevant for anything other than high speed maneuvering...in which case, why was the vehicle as aerodynamic as a picnic table?

Yeah, that is a good point. Who knows - maybe they can hover in place?

But I guess my point is that the Airspeeder in the movies appears to be more "fixed-wingy" than most other craft. The Airspeeder is more aerodynamic than a probe-droid and appears to move more like a typical fixed-wing aircraft. We never get to see for sure if it can hover because, I'm guessing, to avoid getting shot by AT-ATs they were moving pretty quick in ESB.

I still feel that they are slightly out of place in SW:L, but then again I'm a 40K player and don't like flyers in that game either.

I'm just trying to picture an Airspeeder fighting in the Endor Bunker Battle scene. Seems like less of a good fit in a skirmish type battle. Which brings us back to the old scale choice discussion, which I don't want to re-examine.

UPDATE - Based on the latest pictures form Essen, we now know that the game will use a "sliding scale" for some units. So one can imagine that the Airspeeder is really just flying high above the battlefield, not along the ground with the other units. Which makes more sense. Kinda like how Battlefront scales the aircraft differently in Flames of War.



Mez


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 18:15:04


Post by: Albertorius


Mezmaron wrote:And the bigger question is what is an Airspeeder's minimum speed? It's fixed wing, so it can't really fill the role of a helicopter very easily.

Canonically, all Star Wars airspeeders are "powered by a combination of repulsorlift generators and either ion drives or air-breathing jet thrusters" and have stall speeds of zero, meaning they can hover above ground just fine.

MonkeyBallistic wrote:Where did you get these numbers from? I ask because every TIE fighter in every movie actually appears to be moving quite slowly. More like 100km/h than 1000.

The space battles in the films are based on WW1 dogfights because it’s far more exciting than watching a realistic sci fi space combat, which would probably have ships firing at ranges measured in kilometres towards enemies they can’t even see. My point is, don’t get too attached to the concept of realism in sci fi.

The numbers come from Lucas Licensing's Holocron, whose manager is Leland Chee.

As to the TIE/ln Fighter, it's always been at the top end of speed, with the A-Wing and TIE Interceptor above it and basically everything else below it.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 18:28:21


Post by: Yodhrin


Ugh, I hate "sliding scale" even more than I hate "you have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards".

You can *just about* get away with it for a naval combat game when talking about, like, fighter craft, but there is zero excuse for it in a game like this, and less than zero when talking about a vehicle that's only a bit bigger than your average sedan.

*sigh* And I'll bet you a tenner that if a properly-scaled Snowspeeder kit does exist out there somewhere, it'll be one of those monstrously expensive "collector" things. Godammit FFG.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 19:32:02


Post by: Davor


 Yodhrin wrote:
Ugh, I hate "sliding scale" even more than I hate "you have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards".


Well maybe instead of thinking that these types of games are mini games, think of them as card games where you get a mini included. Basically this is what it is. It's a card game like Magic the Gathering with minis as well. Problem solved.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 20:22:57


Post by: jake


I'm REALLY not a fan of sliding scale for vehicles. I though the speeder looked a bit small. now I wonder if the AT ST is as well. I don't see any reason why anything in the game needs to be at a different scale.

Davor wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
Ugh, I hate "sliding scale" even more than I hate "you have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards".


Basically this is what it is. It's a card game like Magic the Gathering with minis as well. Problem solved.


But thats not really what it is at all. It has miniatures which you place on a table top, move and measure distance between. Neither X-Wing or Armada is anything like Magic at all, and I wouldn't expect this to be either.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 20:23:15


Post by: Kalamadea


It's repulsorlift technology, aka anti-grav, so the minimum airspeed needed to maintain flight would be 0. It's like Luke's Landspeeder, it still hovers even when he parks it. Same as the Millenium Falcon or Lambda shuttles, they can go as fast or as slow as needed. Even the speederbikes don't actually need to maintain a minimum speed, they're already floating when Luke and Leia hop on in RotJ.

Inertia's a different matter, once they're going that fast they'll need some time/distance to make their turns or slow down.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 21:06:34


Post by: GoatboyBeta


 Mezmaron wrote:
UPDATE - Based on the latest pictures form Essen, we now know that the game will use a "sliding scale" for some units. So one can imagine that the Airspeeder is really just flying high above the battlefield, not along the ground with the other units. Which makes more sense. Kinda like how Battlefront scales the aircraft differently in Flames of War.


Hopefully there is a bit of perspective shenanigans going on with that Essen pic. The preview on the FFG site https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/10/26/outfitted-for-cold/ has a top down shot next to a AT-ST where it looks about the right size in comparison. It also mentions a compulsory move rule for the T-47.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 21:13:31


Post by: Mezmaron


The sliding scale for models is a bit frustrating. And I know I'm unusual, but for me the "sliding" scale was a big reason I stayed out of Armada.

But the Airspeeder isn't THAT far off on scale. Just slightly small:



Here is the part that really pisses me off - the Airspeeder WOULD be in scale with IA miniatures.



And would it have been difficult to include a transparent stand for it?



Mez


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 21:29:05


Post by: Aeneades


Apparently they do come with transparent stands, the studio painter just painted it.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/28 21:36:46


Post by: Mezmaron


Aeneades wrote:
Apparently they do come with transparent stands, the studio painter just painted it.


Whew! Much easier to have a bad decision on the studio painter's part than on the manufacturer's side!

Mez


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 02:23:02


Post by: Vertrucio


A clear stand can be difficult to mask out in photoshop for preview images, hence being painted, so it may be as much a marketing decision.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 04:07:29


Post by: insaniak


 Mezmaron wrote:


[b]Here is the part that really pisses me off - the Airspeeder WOULD be in scale with IA miniatures.

Which had me thinking 'Ooh, handy!'... and then I remembered that I still have 9 of the WotC speeders anyway


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 04:31:27


Post by: Kalamadea


Right? Plus there's a 1/48th snowspeeder made by bandai, and the troops shown at gencon are consistent with 1/48th compared to 28/32mm

Either way, my concern with scale is humanoid figures, as long as the vehicles are close.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 04:38:18


Post by: Davor


jake wrote:I'm REALLY not a fan of sliding scale for vehicles. I though the speeder looked a bit small. now I wonder if the AT ST is as well. I don't see any reason why anything in the game needs to be at a different scale.

Davor wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
Ugh, I hate "sliding scale" even more than I hate "you have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards".


Basically this is what it is. It's a card game like Magic the Gathering with minis as well. Problem solved.


But thats not really what it is at all. It has miniatures which you place on a table top, move and measure distance between. Neither X-Wing or Armada is anything like Magic at all, and I wouldn't expect this to be either.


I guess I worded it wrong. I know it's a mini game, but what I ment was if you think of it as a card game and you are buying it for the cards and you get the mini included then Yohrin wouldn't have to hate it because 'ou have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards'. "

*edit* for spelling


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 05:04:48


Post by: Kalamadea


I always hated MtG, I couldn't tell which ones were Black Lotus' after I hit em with a coat of primer, they all got mixed around and I think one of them might have been painted up as a Forest


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 08:34:47


Post by: Manchu


If you are a competitive player then winning games matters more to you than saving dollars, right? And if you don't care about competing then having official copies of every single card from FFG doesn't matter to you, right?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 08:51:28


Post by: Yodhrin


Davor wrote:
jake wrote:I'm REALLY not a fan of sliding scale for vehicles. I though the speeder looked a bit small. now I wonder if the AT ST is as well. I don't see any reason why anything in the game needs to be at a different scale.

Davor wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
Ugh, I hate "sliding scale" even more than I hate "you have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards".


Basically this is what it is. It's a card game like Magic the Gathering with minis as well. Problem solved.


But thats not really what it is at all. It has miniatures which you place on a table top, move and measure distance between. Neither X-Wing or Armada is anything like Magic at all, and I wouldn't expect this to be either.


I guess I worded it wrong. I know it's a mini game, but what I ment was if you think of it as a card game and you are buying it for the cards and you get the mini included then Yohrin wouldn't have to hate it because 'ou have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards'. "

*edit* for spelling


Why would I do that though? I like tabletop miniatures games, if I wanted to play a card game I'd go and play MTG.

 Manchu wrote:
If you are a competitive player then winning games matters more to you than saving dollars, right? And if you don't care about competing then having official copies of every single card from FFG doesn't matter to you, right?


Why would you think not having access to the full ruleset wouldn't matter to someone? I mean if GW started releasing codices with half the units and gear missing, then selling cards with the stats for those units and gear in the boxes for other units, sometimes not even for the same subfaction or even race, would you seriously argue that people shouldn't care about that unless they're hyper competitive because, well hey, you don't need to give your Captain a Power Sword to play the game yeah? Christ the GW fandom just about rioted at even the idea of codex supplements for Marine subfactions, and that was back when they cost four quid and codices cost eight.

EDIT: Oh and apparently you can't be a competitive player and short on cash?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 10:29:15


Post by: Manchu


These games either fit in your budget or they don't. The same is true of Magic. The same is true of 40k. I know how irritating it can be not to be able to afford something you want. Most of us have been there/are there. But competitive X-Wing isn't a millionaire's club, either. The price is obviously well supported by the market for the game. Legion seems like it will be similar, in that regard.

The "complete ruleset" ... I disagree with that characterization. The game isn't structured like 40k and that makes sense. GW's printed material is meant to support what they manufacture: miniatures. By contrast, FFG (which doesn't appear to manufacture anything) publishes games made up of components, which can include miniatures. Their lines are structured around an expansion system. Moreover, you can find all the information you need to proxy any option online for X-Wing. No doubt, the same will be true of Legion.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 11:45:31


Post by: Yodhrin


 Manchu wrote:
These games either fit in your budget or they don't. The same is true of Magic. The same is true of 40k. I know how irritating it can be not to be able to afford something you want. Most of us have been there/are there. But competitive X-Wing isn't a millionaire's club, either. The price is obviously well supported by the market for the game. Legion seems like it will be similar, in that regard.


You understand people's frustration, but feel the need to make patronising comments about money management anyway. Hmm. And it will be entirely unsurprising to you to know that I don't give a flying fig about "the market" - some people will buy anything, and a minority of them will do so to a daft degree, the whole F2P videogame model depends on that; humans are not rational actors we're pretentious apes.

The "complete ruleset" ... I disagree with that characterization.


Evidently.

The game isn't structured like 40k and that makes sense. GW's printed material is meant to support what they manufacture: miniatures. By contrast, FFG (which doesn't appear to manufacture anything) publishes games made up of components, which can include miniatures. Their lines are structured around an expansion system. Moreover, you can find all the information you need to proxy any option online for X-Wing. No doubt, the same will be true of Legion.


As far as I'm concerned, the only rational definition for "complete ruleset" is the totality of rules available for the system. That's what "complete" means. What format the rules come in is irrelevant, FFG could be selling games where the components are different coloured jelly babies, the issue is the the business model they've chosen to implement around those components. If FFG were selling the cards as a deck at a reasonable price nobody would have any issue, the problem is them putting superior cards - cards that are often necessary to fix previous releases that FFG either failed or intentionally failed to properly balance - into boxes of models that often people don't even want let alone need because that practice allows them to artificially inflate the price of both items. As for "proxying" cards - fine if your gaming is you and a pal in your house, not so useful if you're stuck gaming in a store, or if you ever want to enter any kind of organised play, since in either case they tend to frown on people pirating rules.

As I said, I've already made my decision; I'll buy the models I want and play a different game with them, the cards thing won't be a direct problem for me, but the system is exploitative garbage and shouldn't be excused or ignored.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 15:05:32


Post by: Davor


 Yodhrin wrote:
Davor wrote:
Spoiler:
jake wrote:I'm REALLY not a fan of sliding scale for vehicles. I though the speeder looked a bit small. now I wonder if the AT ST is as well. I don't see any reason why anything in the game needs to be at a different scale.

Davor wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
Ugh, I hate "sliding scale" even more than I hate "you have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards".


Basically this is what it is. It's a card game like Magic the Gathering with minis as well. Problem solved.


But thats not really what it is at all. It has miniatures which you place on a table top, move and measure distance between. Neither X-Wing or Armada is anything like Magic at all, and I wouldn't expect this to be either.


I guess I worded it wrong. I know it's a mini game, but what I ment was if you think of it as a card game and you are buying it for the cards and you get the mini included then Yohrin wouldn't have to hate it because 'ou have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards'. "

*edit* for spelling


Why would I do that though? I like tabletop miniatures games, if I wanted to play a card game I'd go and play MTG.


Just trying to look at it differently. I guess because I see so much negativity and trying to change, when I saw this and trying to turn a negative into a positive. I ment don't look at it as buying a mini you don't want put for the cards, look at it as buying it for the cards, and getting a mini with it. Perspective. Was just trying to help. I will go hide now under my rock.

Davor


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 19:36:04


Post by: Manchu


It's not patronising to point out that we're talking about budegting disposable income when the complaint is about the price of toys. Whether a given person can afford to buy everything they want cannot form the basis of a valid criticism about how much these toys cost.

Davor makes a good point. Many people are used to thinking about mini games from the perspective of being GW customers: models and rules are largely separate products. This is just not how FFG operates. When you buy a FFG game the box includes all kinds of components: cards, tokens, miniatures, etc. Each expansion box expands the game. It may well be there is only one thing in the expansion you want. That is your issue, however, rather than FFG's.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 22:15:22


Post by: Yodhrin


 Manchu wrote:
It's not patronising to point out that we're talking about budegting disposable income when the complaint is about the price of toys. Whether a given person can afford to buy everything they want cannot form the basis of a valid criticism about how much these toys cost.


It's absolutely patronising, because it relies on the assumption that the rest of us are too thick to have figured it out for ourselves - it's the wargaming equivalent of those cretins who respond to people pointing out that their rent is too high and their wages too low by telling them to eat less avocado toast and open a savings account. Regardless, whether a given person can buy everything they want isn't what's at issue, the issue is FFG's shoddy business model which makes everyone, super-budgeteer and avocado-toast munchers alike, pay more than they should have to.

Davor makes a good point. Many people are used to thinking about mini games from the perspective of being GW customers: models and rules are largely separate products. This is just not how FFG operates. When you buy a FFG game the box includes all kinds of components: cards, tokens, miniatures, etc. Each box expands the game. It may well be there is only one thing in the box you want. That is your issue, however, rather than FFG's.


Davor is talking complete nonsense, as are you. You've ruled out criticising FFG's business model based on affordability, and now you rule out criticising it by comparison to the business models of other companies - out of interest, what would be a valid criticism in your eyes? Because as it stands you're essentially arguing that no criticism of it can be valid.

FFG have chosen to structure their products in a certain way not because it is necessary, nor even because it makes sense, but in order to maximise revenue by requiring players buy expensive boxes to gain access to gameplay advantage-granting additional rules, which once again, are often necessary to fix prior releases which a cynical person might believe were made deliberately underpowered in order to "encourage" additional purchases. You can rationalise that all you like - it's garbage, and I suspect you know fine well it's garbage. Saying "that's just how they operate" when the thing I'm criticising is how they operate is just, epically redundant.



First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 22:23:43


Post by: Manchu


LOL FFG's shoddy business model ... talk about "complete nonsense," you take the cake.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 22:57:41


Post by: Kalamadea


"That's just how FFG operates" isn't a good excuse for their terrible (but effective, for them) marketing. It IS how they sell products however, and complaining about it won't change anything because it IS such a very successful business model for them. End consumers hate it, but like the game enough to put up with it.

I'm all for commiserating about it, but it gets brought up so fething often that it's just annoying at this point and adds nothing to the discussion. People hate the card thing, we get it. But the card thing isn't changing and there's ways around it like resellers breaking apart packs or making your own cards.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 22:57:42


Post by: YouKnowsIt


Since when was criticising the price point of a consumer product irrelevant just because it isn't an essential good?!


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 23:21:17


Post by: Galas


YouKnowsIt wrote:
Since when was criticising the price point of a consumer product irrelevant just because it isn't an essential good?!


Jezz man if you don't want to pay Ferrari prices buy an Honda.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/29 23:27:46


Post by: Kalamadea


Since when was criticising the price point of a consumer product irrelevant just because it isn't an essential good?!

Since first page of the 22 page announcement thread when people were already whining about it, followed by 22 pages of whining about it, and now a 4 page thread of mostly whining about it. And since all the whining in the world won't change how FFG is going to release expansion for Legions or any other FFG miniatures game, you may as well discuss the actual product.

"It is what it is", as they say


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/30 00:30:04


Post by: WUWU


Pardon if this is not an accurate comparison anymore, as I don't follow 40k anymore...

but what is the difference between buying an expansion for x wing to get an upgrade you want, and buying a new codex for the selection of units you own? In fact, I would argue the codex distribution design is actually more annoying, as all my previous codex become irrelevant

At least with FFG you get a miniature to go along with your cards


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/30 00:51:09


Post by: totalfailure


WUWU wrote:
Pardon if this is not an accurate comparison anymore, as I don't follow 40k anymore...

but what is the difference between buying an expansion for x wing to get an upgrade you want, and buying a new codex for the selection of units you own? In fact, I would argue the codex distribution design is actually more annoying, as all my previous codex become irrelevant

At least with FFG you get a miniature to go along with your cards


The comparison does not hold up at all. If you buy a codex for some GW models, it is because you want to have rules to use those units on the battlefield. Fantasy Flight has been guilty way too many times of sticking a good card in a release that is otherwise pretty useless in and of itself, that likely very few would bother buying, if it were not for the latest game breaking card. Thus they have been able to successfully market a bunch of junk X-Wing ships. Kudos to them for exploiting a sales model, but it backfires eventually.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/30 03:45:58


Post by: rabidaskal


The main reason why I got out of X-wing. At the start I didn't mind so much coz hey cool ships, and I didn't mind having rebel scum fighters to display beside my TIEs. As time passed though the cost per wave release seemed to be going higher and higher and the EU ships weren't half as enticing to me. So i got out.

But as Kalamadea said, hey it is what it is. The early days of Xwing were among the most fun I've had with minis, and I still fly casual now and then. FFG also seems to have moved away from this, for Runewars minis and I think Armada, you no longer have to buy out of faction to get all the upgrade cards.

Assuming this holds true for Legion as well, I'll probably buy into the system.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/30 03:50:33


Post by: insaniak


 totalfailure wrote:

The comparison does not hold up at all. If you buy a codex for some GW models, it is because you want to have rules to use those units on the battlefield.

Not really. The point he was making was that in order to get rules to use my dreadnought and tactical squads, I also have to pay for rules for stormravens and landspeeders.

Ultimately, though, the purpose of the game is to sell. This is just one business model amongst many. It could be worse. They could be selling the cards in random, sealed booster packs, for example...


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/30 08:19:25


Post by: Pacific


Think I'll really enjoy getting the airbrush and weathering powders out for these, looks fairly detailed and hopefully make a good job of it.

Does anyone know when the core set is due to be released? Checked a couple of retailers, one is saying sometime next summer, the other just after X-mas. Has there been anything official?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/30 08:47:26


Post by: Azazelx


 Kalamadea wrote:

**I never understood why everyone treats them only as snowspeeders, they even mention in ESB that they were "having trouble adapting them to the cold". But since you only saw them on Hoth they got typecast


I believe that it's largely because for those us who grew up with the films, "Snowspeeder" was all over the toys and merch branding that we had at the time. So through decades of reiteration...


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/30 12:19:04


Post by: YouKnowsIt


 insaniak wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:

The comparison does not hold up at all. If you buy a codex for some GW models, it is because you want to have rules to use those units on the battlefield.

Not really. The point he was making was that in order to get rules to use my dreadnought and tactical squads, I also have to pay for rules for stormravens and landspeeders.


But that comparison still does not hold. A Codex is a one off purchase with a very long time period before the next one is released. The cards however are spread across multiple purchases which are also released in waves that are far more rapid than a Codex refresh.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/30 12:21:49


Post by: Mad Doc Grotsnik


Well, it's all Horses for Courses.

Me, I'm not keen on the card based thing. But I'm not fussed about the book based thing.

I am right and wrong on both at the same time. Job done.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/30 23:06:18


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


The FFG Facebook Page just posted this supposedly in scale image of the AT-ST, a Stormtrooper & Darth Vader.



Assuming the picture from the t-47 article is correct and the Snowspeeder is on the same base as the AT-ST, it seems like it is going to be pretty well-scaled.



Same post also confirms the Core Set won't be out until next year alongside Wave I, rather than a bit earlier like myself and others had hoped.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 11:49:25


Post by: Geifer


Looks good. I want one.

 Pacific wrote:
Think I'll really enjoy getting the airbrush and weathering powders out for these, looks fairly detailed and hopefully make a good job of it.

Does anyone know when the core set is due to be released? Checked a couple of retailers, one is saying sometime next summer, the other just after X-mas. Has there been anything official?


I'd be interested in a somewhat precise release date, too. All I read on Fantasy Flight's website is early 2018, which is a bit vague.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 12:04:56


Post by: Dysartes


 Geifer wrote:
Looks good. I want one.

 Pacific wrote:
Think I'll really enjoy getting the airbrush and weathering powders out for these, looks fairly detailed and hopefully make a good job of it.

Does anyone know when the core set is due to be released? Checked a couple of retailers, one is saying sometime next summer, the other just after X-mas. Has there been anything official?


I'd be interested in a somewhat precise release date, too. All I read on Fantasy Flight's website is early 2018, which is a bit vague.


FFG tend to be fairly vague until they're actually in a position to ship stuff, unfortunately.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 12:16:03


Post by: Geifer


Ah, ok. Thanks. I have basically no experience with Fantasy Flight Games.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 14:51:57


Post by: Kriswall


 Geifer wrote:
Ah, ok. Thanks. I have basically no experience with Fantasy Flight Games.


FFG runs an "Upcoming Product" tracker on their website...

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/upcoming/

Basically, when a product is announced, it will appear and go through the following steps. The boat usually take a month or two and shipping to store take about 2 weeks, on average. You generally don't get a fixed release date until 2-3 weeks before release happens. If you pay attention to when things change status, you can kind of guess. They typically update statuses once a week on Wednesdays... not always, but usually.

* Announced/In Development
* At the Printer <-- Star Wars Legion Core Set is here
* On the Boat
* Shipping Now
* In Stores Now


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 15:00:33


Post by: Geifer


Good to know. Thank you.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 15:06:30


Post by: Kriswall


 Geifer wrote:
Good to know. Thank you.


Yeah. To add one note... essentially, when the core set hits "On the Boat" status, you're looking at about two to two and a half months before it hits the store. I'm not expecting it to hit the boat until mid to late November at the earliest, giving us a mid to late January release. It will probably go later and hit February or March.

For context, Runewars was announced in mid August 2016, just like Legion in mid August 2017. The Runewars core set hit stores in April. I'm expecting Legion to come out quicker, but probably not January quicker.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 15:33:45


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


Since Runewars though FFG/Asmodee have changed their distributer. The recent waves of X Wing & Armada have gone from On Boat in In Stores in a matter of a few weeks.

So Legion might follow suite.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 16:38:24


Post by: Kriswall


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Since Runewars though FFG/Asmodee have changed their distributer. The recent waves of X Wing & Armada have gone from On Boat in In Stores in a matter of a few weeks.

So Legion might follow suite.


True for certain products. In any case, the launch has been announced for Q1 2018, so January is the earliest we'll see anything and we'll still likely have a 2-3 week window before actual launch happens.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 18:30:02


Post by: Pacific


Thanks for the info on that Kriswall, very good to know!

Shame they are missing Xmas, although fortunately I can't be the only one grateful for a bit of extra time on their massive painting pile!


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/10/31 19:13:26


Post by: Kriswall


 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Since Runewars though FFG/Asmodee have changed their distributer. The recent waves of X Wing & Armada have gone from On Boat in In Stores in a matter of a few weeks.

So Legion might follow suite.


The most recent expansion for X-Wing, Guns for Hire, hit On the Boat status on 8/8 and hit stores on 10/26. That's ~11 weeks.
The most recent wave for Star Wars Armada, Imperial Light Carrier and Hammerhead, hit On the Boat status on 4/11 and hit stores on 7/6. That's ~12 weeks.

The last couple of releases actually support the timing of ~2 months on the boat plus ~3 weeks shipping before hitting stores. We're definitely not seeing products hit the boat and then appear in stores a few weeks later.

To be fair, I'm talking US here. It might be better in other parts of the world.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/11/01 01:22:37


Post by: MrMoustaffa


 Yodhrin wrote:
Ugh, I hate "sliding scale" even more than I hate "you have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards".

You can *just about* get away with it for a naval combat game when talking about, like, fighter craft, but there is zero excuse for it in a game like this, and less than zero when talking about a vehicle that's only a bit bigger than your average sedan.

*sigh* And I'll bet you a tenner that if a properly-scaled Snowspeeder kit does exist out there somewhere, it'll be one of those monstrously expensive "collector" things. Godammit FFG.

1/48 Scale star wars stuff exists, I saw some kits at hobby lobby that were around $30 or so. Looked like they had good detail too. I was considering using them for terrain back before I learned more stuff about legion.

I think it's this one https://www.amazon.com/Bandai-Hobby-Star-Speeder-Building/dp/B00U7A8MT4

and the AT-ST https://www.amazon.com/Bandai-AT-ST-Terrain-Transport-Walker/dp/B00RYSAQLY/ref=pd_sim_21_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RB6GRCCXG68GXGM88CFM


Hence why I complain about the game being "X-Wing" cards style rather than just having books. These models, the Star Wars Miniatures game Wizkids ran a while back, heck I've even seen metal 28mm Stormtrooper models, and more. It's just very annoying that these are legit, official models in the correct scale and you can't really use them for the game, at least not in sanctioned events. This is ironically even more stringent than say Games Workshop stores are. At least there I can use the models I picked up in Space Hulk or Silver Tower.

If someone tried this in historicals, or say GW told you you weren't allowed to use Space Hulk Miniatures in 40k, people would have pitchforks out right now.


I'm sure the game will be pretty good and all, I just feel they've unnecessarily restricted it and that is going to hurt it in the long run. Not allowing people to use models they already have from things such as Imperial Assault will inevitably sour some fans moods that would've otherwise bought in. It's a poor strategy for keeping loyalty, and just kind of reeks of trying to squeeze more money out of customers. It's not even like they've got something to worry about. It's star wars, this isn't some niche game system, I think FFG could easily survive people using other models and just buying the books/dice had that been an option. Other systems/manufacturers only cover so many options, so even people who were using things they bought elsewhere would start buying in with time. Historical companies do just fine for example, and you don't see Warlord complaining about people using Plastic Soldier Company, Tamiya, and countless other manufacturers in something like Bolt Action.

I will give FFG some credit, the prices for the models doesn't appear to be too bad. It's definitely at the higher end, especially for no more customization than what the models appear to have, but at least they're in line with something like GW Cadians price wise. I was expecting a squad of stormtroopers to be well over $30 for example. $25 for 7 (which means around $20 with typical 20% off online) means that you're around older GW pricing, and certainly better than say buying squads from a game like Warmachine, but definitely less value than buying historicals or other "non license" type miniatures.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/11/01 13:06:15


Post by: Kriswall


 MrMoustaffa wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
Ugh, I hate "sliding scale" even more than I hate "you have to buy stuff you don't want to get the good cards".

You can *just about* get away with it for a naval combat game when talking about, like, fighter craft, but there is zero excuse for it in a game like this, and less than zero when talking about a vehicle that's only a bit bigger than your average sedan.

*sigh* And I'll bet you a tenner that if a properly-scaled Snowspeeder kit does exist out there somewhere, it'll be one of those monstrously expensive "collector" things. Godammit FFG.

1/48 Scale star wars stuff exists, I saw some kits at hobby lobby that were around $30 or so. Looked like they had good detail too. I was considering using them for terrain back before I learned more stuff about legion.

I think it's this one https://www.amazon.com/Bandai-Hobby-Star-Speeder-Building/dp/B00U7A8MT4

and the AT-ST https://www.amazon.com/Bandai-AT-ST-Terrain-Transport-Walker/dp/B00RYSAQLY/ref=pd_sim_21_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=RB6GRCCXG68GXGM88CFM


Hence why I complain about the game being "X-Wing" cards style rather than just having books. These models, the Star Wars Miniatures game Wizkids ran a while back, heck I've even seen metal 28mm Stormtrooper models, and more. It's just very annoying that these are legit, official models in the correct scale and you can't really use them for the game, at least not in sanctioned events. This is ironically even more stringent than say Games Workshop stores are. At least there I can use the models I picked up in Space Hulk or Silver Tower.

If someone tried this in historicals, or say GW told you you weren't allowed to use Space Hulk Miniatures in 40k, people would have pitchforks out right now.


I'm sure the game will be pretty good and all, I just feel they've unnecessarily restricted it and that is going to hurt it in the long run. Not allowing people to use models they already have from things such as Imperial Assault will inevitably sour some fans moods that would've otherwise bought in. It's a poor strategy for keeping loyalty, and just kind of reeks of trying to squeeze more money out of customers. It's not even like they've got something to worry about. It's star wars, this isn't some niche game system, I think FFG could easily survive people using other models and just buying the books/dice had that been an option. Other systems/manufacturers only cover so many options, so even people who were using things they bought elsewhere would start buying in with time. Historical companies do just fine for example, and you don't see Warlord complaining about people using Plastic Soldier Company, Tamiya, and countless other manufacturers in something like Bolt Action.

I will give FFG some credit, the prices for the models doesn't appear to be too bad. It's definitely at the higher end, especially for no more customization than what the models appear to have, but at least they're in line with something like GW Cadians price wise. I was expecting a squad of stormtroopers to be well over $30 for example. $25 for 7 (which means around $20 with typical 20% off online) means that you're around older GW pricing, and certainly better than say buying squads from a game like Warmachine, but definitely less value than buying historicals or other "non license" type miniatures.


A couple of points.

1. I get that some people don't like that the core rules are free and that unit and upgrade cards are included with the product. This creates a scenario where you're potentially buying a kit for the upgrade cards and not for the models. I've done that with both X-Wing and Armada. What I've NEVER done with X-Wing or Armada, though, is spend even a single penny on rule books. With a game like Warhammer 40k, if you want to play a variety of factions and keep your rules up to date from year to year, there is this passive expectation that you will have to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on rules. 7th Edition was particularly atrocious, with a multi faction army potentially requiring a Core Rulebook, 4-5 different Codexes and a few Campaign Books. I would much rather buy the occasional expansion box I don't really want for an upgrade card versus spending money on yet another rule book... which is normally a copy/paste of the previous edition with updated stats. Overall, I'm certain I've 'wasted' less money on expansion packs than I have on 40k rules that are now worthless.

2. In referencing the Bandai models, you say "these are legit, official models". In the context of Legion, no... they are not. The only official models are the ones that FFG puts out. Those Bandai models are pretty sweet... but they don't come with the bases you need. ...or the tokens you need. ...or the unit cards you need. ...or the upgrade cards you need. Sure, you can purchase the inevitable 3rd party tokens and make photocopies of the unit and upgrade cards, but those bases are going to be hard to find. I suppose you could buy one and make a mold to cast your own, but at some point you look at all the money you're spending on 3rd party stuff and all the time you're spending on replicating parts and you think, "maybe it would be cheaper and easier to just buy this kit from FFG". Also, I don't think the Space Hulk comparison is fair. Those models are in the same scale as the rest of the 40k line. Many of their standalone games use models that are sold separately to be compatible with 40k. FFG never advertised or intended Imperial Assault minis to be compatible with Legion. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

3. Games Workshop has, at best, a rudimentary organized play system. 99% of the events out there are run of the mill store or non-GW tournament events. These events aren't official and aren't sanctioned or supported by Games Workshop. The stores make up whatever house rules they want, with many using one of the various tournament packages. With games like X-Wing and Armada, the overwhelming majority of store events are supported by FFG through Organized Play Kits. There are prizes involved and an expectation that everyone will play by the official rules. This includes having official parts. I play a lot of Armada. When I go to an event, I don't mind if my opponent has modified or otherwise replaced the actual ship, but I do expect to see the official ship base, unit cards and upgrade cards. I expect that if he wants to field a Star Destroyer, that he has purchased (or borrowed) a Star Destroyer. I think Legion will be the same. If you prefer that Bandai AT-ST, great... but it had better be on an FFG base with official unit and upgrade cards. I don't want to play against an army of proxy models with a proxy unit card, proxy tokens and proxy upgrade cards. The way some people talk, it sounds like they want to play Legion without actually buying the game.

4. That rolls me into my last point. Legion isn't free. It doesn't matter if you already own a printer, some Imperial Assault Stormtroopers and a Bandai 1/48 scale AT-ST. Legion is an entirely new game with it's own components. If you want to be able to play in the majority of store events, you're going to need to shell out some money. Legion also isn't expensive. Starting from zero, you can purchase a full sized army with a variety of choices, all the rules you need AND half of a second faction army for about $150-165. With Warhammer 40k, that would be the equivalent of buying core rules, 2000 points of one faction, 1000 points of a second faction, Codexes/Indexes for both factions and all the dice, tape measures, etc. you need to play. I'm not going to price that out, but it would be a hell of a lot more than $165. Compared to 40k, Legion is likely to be comparatively cheap over the long run.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/11/03 22:01:32


Post by: Stormonu


 MrMoustaffa wrote:


If someone tried this in historicals, or say GW told you you weren't allowed to use Space Hulk Miniatures in 40k, people would have pitchforks out right now.



When the '99 version of Space Hulk dropped, GW did not allow people to use the Terminators from Space Hulk in 40K, until a few years later when the terminators went up from being on 25mm to being resculpted as larger models. The genestealers were also illegal as many of the figures would not fit on standard bases.

Overall, I'm not too worried. I intend to buy in this as Imperial, doubt I will pick up the AT-ST, and I still have both my WotC minis and figures from the plastic "force commander" toy line that ended not too long ago if I don't want to buy the current line. Of course, I'm not a competitive player - this gaming stuff is just all for casual fun for me.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/11/04 16:24:31


Post by: Mezmaron


 Stormonu wrote:
...I intend to buy in this as Imperial, doubt I will pick up the AT-ST, and I still have both my WotC minis and figures from the plastic "force commander" toy line that ended not too long ago if I don't want to buy the current line. Of course, I'm not a competitive player - this gaming stuff is just all for casual fun for me.

Yes - you hit the nail on the head here.

Miniature games are a different beast than most and FFG may end up realizing that many Star Wars: Legion players have a different approach than the typical gamer. The X-Wing crowd may be fine with buying a whole expansion simply for a new unit option, but the casual crowd just laughs at that concept.

This means my "casual gamer plan" to play Star Wars: Legion is:
-buy nothing more at retail than the Starter
-get the raw models off of Ebay on the cheap,
-use an army list program for unit composition,
-I'll proxy whatever I want, and
-I'll use whatever damn vehicle model I want to use, thank you.

People will ask - what about tournaments? I've played 40K for twenty years and have only played in one tournament that whole time. So I don't care. Others won't either. Just play casually in store or at a mate's house.

Mez


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/16 19:32:19


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Are there any plans to cover the Sequel Trilogy with the First Order and Resistance?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/16 20:47:34


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Are there any plans to cover the Sequel Trilogy with the First Order and Resistance?
Likely enough given that they introduced First Order and Resistance ships into X-Wing.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/16 21:33:35


Post by: Vertrucio


Also, the RPG recently got a Beginner's Box for Force Awakens, so they'll do more with it. When FFG makes stuff for one thing, they like to reuse all of it for other things of that property.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/16 23:46:24


Post by: griffen127


So FFG is trying to get SWL out by mid feb. I guess we will see.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/17 00:10:11


Post by: Yodhrin


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Are there any plans to cover the Sequel Trilogy with the First Order and Resistance?


If this does even a little bit well, I've no doubt you'll eventually be able to play in all three movie eras and hell, maybe even Knights of the Old Republic or Tales of the Jedi times if it keeps selling well even after they've done all of those main ones.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/17 00:15:06


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Are there any plans to cover the Sequel Trilogy with the First Order and Resistance?


If this does even a little bit well, I've no doubt you'll eventually be able to play in all three movie eras and hell, maybe even Knights of the Old Republic or Tales of the Jedi times if it keeps selling well even after they've done all of those main ones.


Oh feth yes I'd go balls deep in KOTOR

Thanks guys


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/17 10:04:20


Post by: Albertorius


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Are there any plans to cover the Sequel Trilogy with the First Order and Resistance?


If this does even a little bit well, I've no doubt you'll eventually be able to play in all three movie eras and hell, maybe even Knights of the Old Republic or Tales of the Jedi times if it keeps selling well even after they've done all of those main ones.

KOTOR and TotJ are from the old EU. So don't hold your breath. At least not until Disney takes any of it back for Legends, which has been doing for other stuff like Thrawn.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/17 11:39:55


Post by: Aeneades


Fantasy Flight have used HK droids from the KOTOR Games in Imperial Assault since the old EU was retired so seems like not everything is off the table.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/17 13:31:33


Post by: Yodhrin


 Albertorius wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Are there any plans to cover the Sequel Trilogy with the First Order and Resistance?


If this does even a little bit well, I've no doubt you'll eventually be able to play in all three movie eras and hell, maybe even Knights of the Old Republic or Tales of the Jedi times if it keeps selling well even after they've done all of those main ones.

KOTOR and TotJ are from the old EU. So don't hold your breath. At least not until Disney takes any of it back for Legends, which has been doing for other stuff like Thrawn.


The FFG Star Wars games are already confirmed to exist outside the New Canon continuity established by Disney, so there's no reason they can't dip into any part of Legends they feel like. Besides which, by the time FFG get through the Original, Sequel, and Prequel trilogy eras, assuming the game is still going strong enough to justify new development and that by that time Disney hasn't given the license to someone else, years will have passed and they might have re-canonised a big chunk of KotOR/TotJ era stuff or made their own versions of those stories anyway.

I'm not saying it's a dead cert or anything, just that this thing has a lot of legs if it does well even without stepping outside "official" material.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/17 13:44:14


Post by: Replicant253


Last of the Jedi hints has a easter egg that links to Darth Revan. I won't be more specific for fear of spoilers.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/17 14:53:25


Post by: ZebioLizard2


Aeneades wrote:
Fantasy Flight have used HK droids from the KOTOR Games in Imperial Assault since the old EU was retired so seems like not everything is off the table.
The EA game on mobile Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes also dipped into KOTOR with Darth Nihlus and HK-47


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/17 22:40:56


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Replicant253 wrote:
Last of the Jedi hints has a easter egg that links to Darth Revan. I won't be more specific for fear of spoilers.


Please do, there are spoiler tags for a reason. I saw TLJ but didn't pick up on that.



First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/17 23:03:55


Post by: Albertorius


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Are there any plans to cover the Sequel Trilogy with the First Order and Resistance?


If this does even a little bit well, I've no doubt you'll eventually be able to play in all three movie eras and hell, maybe even Knights of the Old Republic or Tales of the Jedi times if it keeps selling well even after they've done all of those main ones.

KOTOR and TotJ are from the old EU. So don't hold your breath. At least not until Disney takes any of it back for Legends, which has been doing for other stuff like Thrawn.


The FFG Star Wars games are already confirmed to exist outside the New Canon continuity established by Disney, so there's no reason they can't dip into any part of Legends they feel like. Besides which, by the time FFG get through the Original, Sequel, and Prequel trilogy eras, assuming the game is still going strong enough to justify new development and that by that time Disney hasn't given the license to someone else, years will have passed and they might have re-canonised a big chunk of KotOR/TotJ era stuff or made their own versions of those stories anyway.

I'm not saying it's a dead cert or anything, just that this thing has a lot of legs if it does well even without stepping outside "official" material.

Actually... yes, and no. Yes, they are allowed to reach out of canon for setting stuff. No, they are not allowed to make any mini that's not from something produced by Disney unless it's negotiated separetely, like they did with the Imperial Raider.

That said, they have already made EU ships in Armada, that from what I'm told have been added to the Legends roster, so...


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/18 00:09:18


Post by: -Loki-


Aeneades wrote:
Fantasy Flight have used HK droids from the KOTOR Games in Imperial Assault since the old EU was retired so seems like not everything is off the table.


They're using the Legends continuity which gives them free reign to include anything.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/20 19:55:15


Post by: usernamesareannoying


how cool are they... nice.
looking forward to their rebel counterparts.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/20 20:00:37


Post by: LunarSol


$13 for that Veers model is neither particularly surprising nor exciting. The Snowtrooper price isn't too bad though, particularly considering what they were charging for multiple figures in Imperial Assault.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/20 20:02:20


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 LunarSol wrote:
$13 for that Veers model is neither particularly surprising nor exciting. The Snowtrooper price isn't too bad though, particularly considering what they were charging for multiple figures in Imperial Assault.


Only $13??? Doesn't seem very steep to me, especially considering the amount of accessories you get with the figure.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/20 20:29:15


Post by: LunarSol


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 LunarSol wrote:
$13 for that Veers model is neither particularly surprising nor exciting. The Snowtrooper price isn't too bad though, particularly considering what they were charging for multiple figures in Imperial Assault.


Only $13??? Doesn't seem very steep to me, especially considering the amount of accessories you get with the figure.


It's just not a tremendously inspiring figure is really what bothers me. I'm also just a tad burned out all of FFGs accessories at this point. There games have just gotten feeling cluttered at this point, where I feel like I'm carrying around more accessories than figures.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/20 21:07:36


Post by: GoatboyBeta


Hmm I was wondering how they would make the Snowtroopers different from the regular Stormtroopers. I don't see any mention of environment rules or restrictions though. So I guess jungle/desert/any environment you can think of Snowtroopers can be a thing in Legion then


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/20 21:13:58


Post by: LunarSol


GoatboyBeta wrote:
Hmm I was wondering how they would make the Snowtroopers different from the regular Stormtroopers. I don't see any mention of environment rules or restrictions though. So I guess jungle/desert/any environment you can think of Snowtroopers can be a thing in Legion then


The article mentions some of the differences. Namely, Snowtroopers are slower, but get to move and shoot in the same action. They also have some different special weapons.

They are one of those things that annoy me in the way games work. Snowtroopers are essentially just Stormtroopers outfitted for cold weather. Rather than let them function that way in a game they have to differentiate themselves somehow, so players will either end up picking whichever one is stronger and putting Snowtroopers in the desert or best case scenario, they'll be well balanced enough that it will be worth fielding both and that's just all sorts of confusing when you stop and think about it.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/20 21:26:10


Post by: Siygess


True. I might be in the minority but I'd enjoy building the same force several times over with appropriately attired Stormtroopers to suit the table I'm playing on.

On an unrelated topic I really hope we don't see the usual FFG problems of keeping products on shelves. We are already seeing a lot of SKUs for what is essentially wave 1, and the prospect of preordering everything in the months leading up to Christmas just to ensure you CAN get hold of it is rather daunting.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/21 00:09:26


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


 LunarSol wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
Hmm I was wondering how they would make the Snowtroopers different from the regular Stormtroopers. I don't see any mention of environment rules or restrictions though. So I guess jungle/desert/any environment you can think of Snowtroopers can be a thing in Legion then


The article mentions some of the differences. Namely, Snowtroopers are slower, but get to move and shoot in the same action. They also have some different special weapons.

They are one of those things that annoy me in the way games work. Snowtroopers are essentially just Stormtroopers outfitted for cold weather. Rather than let them function that way in a game they have to differentiate themselves somehow, so players will either end up picking whichever one is stronger and putting Snowtroopers in the desert or best case scenario, they'll be well balanced enough that it will be worth fielding both and that's just all sorts of confusing when you stop and think about it.

This is partly why I'm surprised we're seeing them so early. Imperials are getting a very similar, secondary Coprs unit before FFG has announced a single Special Forces unit for either faction.
Then again, I suppose it makes sense getting a some what unexciting unit (comparatively) out of the way sooner rather than later.

I'm am excited for Veers though. Vader is cool and all that, but Veers seems like a better fit for my playstyle with his more support-based nature.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/21 11:05:21


Post by: alleus


Trying to find info on release dates for Legion products. Have FFG stated any release dates, specifically for the starter box?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/21 11:17:44


Post by: Sarigar


Early 2018 according to FF website.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 02:34:09


Post by: griffen127


@sarigar I talked to some high ups. The plan is for a Feb release.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 07:20:25


Post by: Grot 6


Any comparison photos of the minis between Legion and Imperial Assault? I want to get some, but am hesitant on the scale...


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 08:32:24


Post by: plastictrees


Couple of images floating around with a quick Google.
Hard to absolutely tell given angles and base sizes but they look somewhere between 'unusable atrocities' and 'ok as long as they aren't right next to each other'.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 09:46:24


Post by: Taarnak


We haven't seen images of release product yet. We've only seen pre production resin pieces. Sizes may be different.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 09:50:30


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Snowtroopers and Veers?

I wonder what wonderfully iconic element of the Rebels extensive ground forces they'll add to match the Imperials.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 09:59:03


Post by: Riquende


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Snowtroopers and Veers?

I wonder what wonderfully iconic element of the Rebels extensive ground forces they'll add to match the Imperials.


Everything you need to refight Hoth with Echo base troopers and Rieekan? Or maybe Leia in her snow gear (it would be nice to have non-slavegirl, non-'buns' Leia figure for once).


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 10:01:18


Post by: H.B.M.C.


My apologies. I was being facetious.

The Rebels don't have any iconic ground forces outside of that blasted Snow Speeder. The Galactic Civil War is exceptionally dull from a ground-combat perspective.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 10:27:03


Post by: Aeneades


 Riquende wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Snowtroopers and Veers?

I wonder what wonderfully iconic element of the Rebels extensive ground forces they'll add to match the Imperials.


Everything you need to refight Hoth with Echo base troopers and Rieekan? Or maybe Leia in her snow gear (it would be nice to have non-slavegirl, non-'buns' Leia figure for once).


Imperial Assault went for Leia in her snow gear rather than the slave costume (thankfully).


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 10:28:43


Post by: Matt.Kingsley


Yeah, sure they do.

They have rebels in forest gear, rebels in snow gear, and the Alderaani resistance!


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 11:13:35


Post by: GoatboyBeta


From the civil war era movies(Ep4-6 plus R1) the Rebellion has fleet, snow and forest troops. As well as the Scarif commandos and partisans from R1, possibly Cloud city guards and lets not forget the Ewoks But IIRC the only ground combat vehicles the movies show them using are Snow speeders a couple of nicked speeder bikes and a AT-ST, and Ewok gliders. Maybe they could also have the Bespin cloud cars, but after that its going to have to be a trip to either the EU(new or old) or the prequel era.

As much as I'd like to see the current sequel trilogy included things are even worse for that era. The First Order gets walkers that are close to 40k battle Titans in size, while the Resistance get some outdated one man speeders that are literally falling apart.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 13:50:20


Post by: Pacific


Damn... was hoping to use existing terrain setups for this game, but thanks to the Snow troopers can see myself attempting to make an associated snow terrain board.

 LunarSol wrote:

It's just not a tremendously inspiring figure is really what bothers me. I'm also just a tad burned out all of FFGs accessories at this point. There games have just gotten feeling cluttered at this point, where I feel like I'm carrying around more accessories than figures.


What did you actually want, something back-flipping or standing with two arms out-stretched and firing a pistol wildly from each hand?

I actually quite like the understated pose, it fits the concept quite nicely.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 14:03:42


Post by: Yodhrin


GoatboyBeta wrote:
From the civil war era movies(Ep4-6 plus R1) the Rebellion has fleet, snow and forest troops. As well as the Scarif commandos and partisans from R1, possibly Cloud city guards and lets not forget the Ewoks But IIRC the only ground combat vehicles the movies show them using are Snow speeders a couple of nicked speeder bikes and a AT-ST, and Ewok gliders. Maybe they could also have the Bespin cloud cars, but after that its going to have to be a trip to either the EU(new or old) or the prequel era.

As much as I'd like to see the current sequel trilogy included things are even worse for that era. The First Order gets walkers that are close to 40k battle Titans in size, while the Resistance get some outdated one man speeders that are literally falling apart.


We've gone through all this previously and HBMC knows it fine well, but for some reason is sticking with the pretense that A: the Empire is actually substantially more diverse than the Rebels, and B: the EU/non-movie New Canon doesn't exist.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 14:22:13


Post by: ZebioLizard2


Wouldn't the rebels get far more aliens given the whole "Imperial speciest xenophobia" outside of a scum faction anyways.

Let's have some Bothans and Wookies!


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 15:14:25


Post by: warboss


 Riquende wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Snowtroopers and Veers?

I wonder what wonderfully iconic element of the Rebels extensive ground forces they'll add to match the Imperials.


Everything you need to refight Hoth with Echo base troopers and Rieekan? Or maybe Leia in her snow gear (it would be nice to have non-slavegirl, non-'buns' Leia figure for once).


My guess is Hoth defense turrets.



First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 15:25:14


Post by: AndrewGPaul


"Iconic" apparently doesn't matter, since General Veers actually commanded the battle from the head of an AT-AT, not from a modified AT-ST.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 16:35:19


Post by: xKillGorex


Have been keeping an eye on this for a while, and would love to do a Hoth or Endor set up I also hope they touch on the clone wars.

Not so bothered about the Droids and such but I would like to get my hands on the clone specialists. Especially later in the clone wars where they are bridging the gap between clones and stormtroopers.
Hell I mean who wouldn’t want to have Sev,Fixer, and the rest of the squad taking down clankers.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 17:35:34


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Yodhrin wrote:
We've gone through all this previously and HBMC knows it fine well, but for some reason is sticking with the pretense that A: the Empire is actually substantially more diverse than the Rebels, and B: the EU/non-movie New Canon doesn't exist.
And, just like last time, none'a that means gak.

There are no iconic or even interesting Rebel ground units. Every SW RTS game has had to make gak up for the Rebels because they just don't have enough stuff to fill a space cruiser, whereas the Imperials just have stuff coming out of their thermal exhaust ports.

Space? No problem. Look at the wealth of options in Armada and especially X-Wing. But on the ground? Not really.

I mean, who wants a mini of a T2-B? Or an HTT-26? Or an AAC-2? Or a PTR-77?




I made one of those four up, BTW.



First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 18:12:28


Post by: ironicsilence


Does this game have a release date? Did they announce expansions before the game has released?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 18:20:32


Post by: Davor


 ironicsilence wrote:
Does this game have a release date? Did they announce expansions before the game has released?


Game is not out yet? I thought the game was out already. Shocked they are talking about expansions when the game is not out yet, if true.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 18:25:14


Post by: ironicsilence


Davor wrote:
 ironicsilence wrote:
Does this game have a release date? Did they announce expansions before the game has released?


Game is not out yet? I thought the game was out already. Shocked they are talking about expansions when the game is not out yet, if true.


i know they demoed it at gen con i believe, but every where ive looked says the starter set is up for pre order with no actual release date published. Ive been out of the hobby for a bit and just returning so maybe ive just completely missed its release?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 19:43:05


Post by: warboss


FFG has typically had a limited release at gencon for their most popular lines as a propomtional event with us peons getting it months later. It was like that with X-wing for it's initial release as well. I assume that happened here although I didn't pay enough attention to this year's con coverage to know for certain. The arbitrary rescaling turned me off to the game.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 20:01:51


Post by: Krinsath


Release is likely mid to late February of 2018; they just updated their release page to "On the Boat" on the 21st of December.

Announcing expansions for unreleased games is standard procedure for FFG; their business model is very much in packaging things into tons of different SKUs. There are a few more than normal for Legion, but not bizarrely so.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 21:12:51


Post by: usernamesareannoying


Is there a summary of the rules anywhere?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 22:06:01


Post by: Grot 6


They will be located here after release.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-legion/


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/23 23:44:56


Post by: Yodhrin


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
We've gone through all this previously and HBMC knows it fine well, but for some reason is sticking with the pretense that A: the Empire is actually substantially more diverse than the Rebels, and B: the EU/non-movie New Canon doesn't exist.
And, just like last time, none'a that means gak.

There are no iconic or even interesting Rebel ground units. Every SW RTS game has had to make gak up for the Rebels because they just don't have enough stuff to fill a space cruiser, whereas the Imperials just have stuff coming out of their thermal exhaust ports.

Space? No problem. Look at the wealth of options in Armada and especially X-Wing. But on the ground? Not really.

I mean, who wants a mini of a T2-B? Or an HTT-26? Or an AAC-2? Or a PTR-77?




I made one of those four up, BTW.



I'm not going through this again. You're wrong, I've illustrated how you're wrong in excruciating detail, but if you get some joy out of insisting that we stick only to OT-movie-screen stuff and from pretending that, by your own chosen measure, the Imperials are somehow so much more interesting than the Rebels because they have, like, one extra vehicle, have at it.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/24 00:17:42


Post by: Tamereth


H.B.M.C is right, while there is tons of stuff from the (now defunct) EU they could use, to the masses that stuff isn't STAR WARS, its just a bunch of sci-fi things.

One of the main problems with x-wing is that if you walk into a tournament it doesn't look like star wars anymore, as nobody uses x-wings / tie fighters - it's all weird EU stuff


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/24 00:19:12


Post by: Thargrim


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
My apologies. I was being facetious.

The Rebels don't have any iconic ground forces outside of that blasted Snow Speeder. The Galactic Civil War is exceptionally dull from a ground-combat perspective.


We already have a rebel riding an AT-RT, I think they will whip up some crazy stuff for the rebel faction. I expect Hoth Leia and cold weather troopers announced next. Next thing you know we'll have rebel zipping around in beat up BARC speeders. And this....though not in that color of course.



Considering the ships they put in Armada and X wing I expect them to bend the rules a bit. Though they need to be careful with balance otherwise just like X wing the iconic stuff won't see enough use.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/24 10:10:37


Post by: daemonish


The AT-RT is a repurposed clone wars vehicle so maybe an AT-TE the there is all these to go to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Rebel_Alliance_vehicles


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/24 10:30:45


Post by: GoatboyBeta


Yeah IIRC the Empire is shown on screen to have(deep breath) Storm troopers, Snow troopers, Desert troopers, Scout troopers, Shore troopers, Death troopers, Imperial army troopers, Imperial guards, Scout troopers on speeder bikes, Desert troopers on Dewbacks, TX-225A Occupier tank(from R1), AT-ST and if FFG ever go epic two types of AT-AT's. It also looks like the Han Solo movie will also include at least one new Storm trooper variant as well.

Still the real meat for the Rebels this game should be the heroes. Despite being called "Legion" it does seem to be more of a small scale(not quite skirmish) game to me.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/24 14:49:45


Post by: ironicsilence


 Krinsath wrote:
Release is likely mid to late February of 2018; they just updated their release page to "On the Boat" on the 21st of December.

Announcing expansions for unreleased games is standard procedure for FFG; their business model is very much in packaging things into tons of different SKUs. There are a few more than normal for Legion, but not bizarrely so.


If this is standard for FFG, is the past when this happens, do they release all the expansions at the same time as when the game goes live to make a larger model splash? Or will it be a true expansion and come months after the game?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/24 14:57:02


Post by: Mr Morden


Wouldn;t the rebels just use captured Imperial stuff ?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/24 16:30:23


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
"Iconic" apparently doesn't matter, since General Veers actually commanded the battle from the head of an AT-AT, not from a modified AT-ST.
Given how long it took before X-Wing got "Huge" ships it'll be a long while yet before they introduce the AT-AT. I imagine they made it seem like he was getting fire support from one through one of his command cards given it seems to output five red dice worth of damage.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/24 16:55:17


Post by: Krinsath


 ironicsilence wrote:
 Krinsath wrote:
Release is likely mid to late February of 2018; they just updated their release page to "On the Boat" on the 21st of December.

Announcing expansions for unreleased games is standard procedure for FFG; their business model is very much in packaging things into tons of different SKUs. There are a few more than normal for Legion, but not bizarrely so.


If this is standard for FFG, is the past when this happens, do they release all the expansions at the same time as when the game goes live to make a larger model splash? Or will it be a true expansion and come months after the game?


It varies with the line. Usually the "core" expansions (i.e. - units that are already in the main box broken out) release at the same time as well as expansions announced at about the same time. That's contingent on the factory though, as sometimes things will take too long to do a normal release and they'll ship ahead cores rather than delay the entire line. Armada springs to mind as a time when core sets were available for a long while before the expansion ships with the core being released in March and the follow-ons not until May.

I think the game did suffer for it as the first quarter of the game's release there were only 3 ships, so I doubt FFG is keen to repeat that model. Most of the Legion "core expansions" show the same status as the core sets while Veers and the Snowtroopers are not listed. I suspect that means those two expansions and their inevitable Rebel analogs will come slightly later, despite the announcement saying first quarter of 2018; FFG's announcement dates are often inaccurate as the latest Armada wave illustrates (announced for Q4 2017, not even on the boat yet).

No inside knowledge or anything; just going on how they've done things previously.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/24 17:05:15


Post by: AegisGrimm


Yeah, FFG really dropped the ball with the Profundity and Chimera for Armada when they didn't even have the ships to display at Gencon, but had demos galore of Legion.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/29 02:52:55


Post by: griffen127


So it says "on the boat." Anyone know the typical time from on the boat to whatever comes next?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/29 02:59:53


Post by: Krinsath


As it says on FFG's page, generally 4-6 weeks. Given that this is a major launch for FFG, it could be as early as January, or as late as March. All boils down to when they think is the best time to release things.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2017/12/29 18:07:12


Post by: Gitzbitah


 daemonish wrote:
The AT-RT is a repurposed clone wars vehicle so maybe an AT-TE the there is all these to go to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Rebel_Alliance_vehicles


Ummm.... your source has a Buick in it. That can't be canon.... right? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Buick


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/03 11:10:48


Post by: alleus


If anyone wants to see some close ups on the models (at least some of them), the wickedly talented Sorastro over on Youtube has painting tutorials for both Luke Skywalker and the Rebel troops.

You can find them here:
Luke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OVnCFq1j04
Rebel troopers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3oXsOeFx2I&t=247s

Hopefully he will get started on the Empire models soon!


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/03 11:20:37


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 Gitzbitah wrote:
 daemonish wrote:
The AT-RT is a repurposed clone wars vehicle so maybe an AT-TE the there is all these to go to http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Rebel_Alliance_vehicles


Ummm.... your source has a Buick in it. That can't be canon.... right? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Buick


Did you read the page?

This article is about an Easter egg.

This article covers a subject that was included as an Easter egg in a Star Wars Legends source and may not have been considered canon within the Legends continuity.

The Buick is a recurring easter egg present throughout every game in the Rogue Squadron series of games, as well as Star Wars: Episode I: Battle for Naboo, as a special unlockable


Also thanks for the model views! I do hope we'll see the opposite to Veers and Snowtroopers soon, as otherwise it seems really limited.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/03 13:27:31


Post by: Grot 6


Those Rebels need to raid a few armories and motor pools and steal some Imperial gear.

No reason that the vehicles can't be used by either side.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/04 07:33:38


Post by: alleus


Another painting tutorial from Sorastro, this time the AT-RT. I am noticing something troubling with this model that I didn't see in the others. It seems like this is not regular "spure" plastic, like I thought it was. This looks more like the "plastic" that is used in Warmachine/Hordes. Not resin, but not really plastic either. This makes me sad. Still, the model is nice, and Sorastros painting is as great as ever. The base looks great!




First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/04 08:15:39


Post by: Albertorius


It's not HIPS, AFAIK it has never been advertised or reported as such either.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/04 13:15:43


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Somebody in the SW Legions Facebook group posted photos showing that the minis use the same "socket and key" system as Runewars, which apparently makes it difficult to assemble. So much so that some people just cut the keys off and superglue it.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/04 16:20:58


Post by: Taarnak


Don't know about assembly, but if that AT-RT is a production piece, the detail is way better than what they put out for Imperial Assault.

Hopefully the QC and scaling between figures is better too.

Watching the two new videos from Sorastro makes me hopeful.

Re: The material: To my knowledge they've never said it would be any material other than the PVC used in all their other figures. Has anyone seen anything different?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/04 19:24:54


Post by: Red_Five


 SonicPara wrote:
Aeneades wrote:
I was expecting it but still disappointed to see new cards being added to these starter duplicate figure sets to force people to buy them over extra copies of the base game.

Also have to agree with the weird decision on the flight base.


They also just FAQ'd a X-Wing ship to no longer have certain upgrade slots which means that it can't even use some of the cards included in its packaging.

Marrying miniature to upgrade cards has always been an ugly practice of FFG's but now it is even worse. They really should just sell cards separately and reduce the cost of their models.


When it comes to X-Wing, people often buy ships just for the cards. Marrying Models and Cards means they sell far more models than they would otherwise sell.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/04 20:30:55


Post by: Stormonu


 Red_Five wrote:
 SonicPara wrote:
Aeneades wrote:
I was expecting it but still disappointed to see new cards being added to these starter duplicate figure sets to force people to buy them over extra copies of the base game.

Also have to agree with the weird decision on the flight base.


They also just FAQ'd a X-Wing ship to no longer have certain upgrade slots which means that it can't even use some of the cards included in its packaging.

Marrying miniature to upgrade cards has always been an ugly practice of FFG's but now it is even worse. They really should just sell cards separately and reduce the cost of their models.


When it comes to X-Wing, people often buy ships just for the cards. Marrying Models and Cards means they sell far more models than they would otherwise sell.


I must be one of the oddballs then, I buy the ships for the sake of the ships themselves. Of course, I’ve been known to also supplement my shipyards with the micromachine ships and the hot wheelsversions (the U-Wing, for example, is the same exact size).

I imagine that the SW legion figures are the same material they use for Runewars for production. I’ve not had any problem with those models assembly-wise, but glue does help keep ‘em together.

I have suspicion the models we’ve seen displayed/painted may be pre-production kits, possibly different from the final material that will be used - unless that’s somehow against the law to use for the paint tutorials?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/05 07:52:00


Post by: Albertorius


 Red_Five wrote:
 SonicPara wrote:
Aeneades wrote:
I was expecting it but still disappointed to see new cards being added to these starter duplicate figure sets to force people to buy them over extra copies of the base game.

Also have to agree with the weird decision on the flight base.


They also just FAQ'd a X-Wing ship to no longer have certain upgrade slots which means that it can't even use some of the cards included in its packaging.

Marrying miniature to upgrade cards has always been an ugly practice of FFG's but now it is even worse. They really should just sell cards separately and reduce the cost of their models.


When it comes to X-Wing, people often buy ships just for the cards. Marrying Models and Cards means they sell far more models than they would otherwise sell.


Well, conversely, there's also a lot of non-gamers (I know some, actually) that just want the ships as collectibles. Being decently prepainted is a big boon for them.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/07 20:23:40


Post by: angel of death 007


Never having played any of FFG's games before and reading through everything to try to sort it all out I have some questions maybe they are answered maybe they are still pending.

1.) Is there a difference between the storm troopers or rebels you get in the core and the ones in the add on boxes?

2.) Is the core game, and addon's being released at the same time?

3.) Is the snow troopers and Veers going to be released at the same time?

Reason I ask is because I want to do a preorder but talk about not being very clear. I don't want to have to wait if i include say Veers in my order for several months after the rest of the stuff is released. If that is the case I will just get him later.

My plan is to order the core, AT ST, T 47 airspeeder, and Veers. Not knowing if ordering more then one core is worthwhile and wanting to play it safe for once.

Any help would be appreciated.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/07 20:27:41


Post by: Aeneades


1. The base units duplicated in the expansion boxes are likely to come with extra cards that are not included within the core box.

2. Usually the expansions come a few weeks or so after the base game.

3. I suspect they will come a while after the first wave of expansions.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/07 20:35:33


Post by: angel of death 007


Thanks for the quick responses. I think i will order the base game AT ST and T47 airspeeder, so i can land free shipping then pick up Veers with whatever else comes out after.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/12 21:53:06


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured




size comparison between Imperial Assault and Legions AT-ST from element games on facebook


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/12 22:10:31


Post by: LunarSol


Curious that they're actually releasing the extra two Imperial expansions without Rebel equivalents.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/12 22:26:41


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


Edit: removed duplicate post, the thread didn't seem to be working yesterday


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/13 03:12:04


Post by: LunarSol


I could swear I posted something earlier. It’s like this thread won’t go past page 7 on my browser....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Huh. Says I’m the most recent post but I can’t see past angels post. Weird....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hey! That fixed it! I can see again!


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/13 14:53:30


Post by: angel of death 007


 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


size comparison between Imperial Assault and Legions AT-ST from element games on facebook


I was wondering what the difference would be and now I am totally glad i preordered the AT-ST.... it is total beefcake over the old one.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/13 15:41:18


Post by: dosiere


I’m impressed by the details on these minis. Runewars is actually very decent, but these look even better. Now if only FFG would give us head, arm, and weapon options for the regular troopers they’d really have my attention.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/13 16:54:55


Post by: Grot 6


How do these AT-ST's stack up to the Wizards AT-AT?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/13 17:39:35


Post by: Stormonu


Oh my, that's quite a dramatic difference. I might get that just to display the model.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/14 09:52:10


Post by: AAN


I am totally disappointed about the scale difference!
I was still hoping to use at least some IA minis.

I can't understand why FFG chooses bigger minis for a game that needs more minis as IA.
If it would be the other way around I might understand it, but this way...


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/14 12:36:55


Post by: Malika2


Sweeeeet


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/14 12:42:09


Post by: ingtaer


That looks damn good, it also looks really big. I still cant work out whether or not to get into this, every new bit of info changes my mind again.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/14 18:54:07


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


 AAN wrote:

I can't understand why FFG chooses bigger minis for a game that needs more minis as IA.
If it would be the other way around I might understand it, but this way...


So they can sell you the same units twice and screw you out of using standard terrain in the process!


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/14 19:29:39


Post by: Vertrucio


You'll complain when things are out of scale, and you'll complain when things are properly in scale.

So, they'll just do this and people will still buy regardless of complaints.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/14 19:55:30


Post by: Grot 6


 Vertrucio wrote:
You'll complain when things are out of scale, and you'll complain when things are properly in scale.

So, they'll just do this and people will still buy regardless of complaints.


Actually, It will just not get bought if it is subpar.


No complaint necessary, but reasonable accommodation would be expected. Especially if you want to increase sales to add to an already established line that would have been sweet to add to budding armies. Heck, FFG looks to me like they shot themselves in the face and lost an opportunity.

You could have used those figures in the RPG, The tabletop, games of IA... But instead, you get to rebuy odd scaled figures that you can't use. Hell, might as well just get some WOTC figures, make squads up and put them on the table, instead since scale doesn't matter. Good call, whoever made it.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/15 01:04:09


Post by: Thargrim


MM sold out of this before I could get an order in. I'm really hoping FFG printed plenty of these and the release won't be a mess. I'll find another seller but i'm gonna be bummed if they end up cancelling my order cause they didn't get enough in to fulfill orders or something.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/15 07:25:33


Post by: alleus


The AT-ST looks great! That scale feels much better than the Imperial Assault one. I'm just a little bummed about the pose. With the type of material they are using for Legion, it feels like they could make it a bit more dynamic.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/15 19:16:05


Post by: Bossk_Hogg


 Vertrucio wrote:
You'll complain when things are out of scale, and you'll complain when things are properly in scale.


No, I'm complaining that they changed the scale of the humans SPECIFICALLY to make them incompatible with what we already bought and terrain we own. And most of what we had was from them! It's not like they missed out on sales. This could have been the 2nd edition for the IA skirmish mode.


So, they'll just do this and people will still buy regardless of complaints.


Of course they'll buy. It's Star Wars. Hell, *I* may buy. But that doesnt change that it's a scummy move designed to sell the same Stormtroopers/Luke/Vader units twice to people who already had them in IA. What's really frustrating is having to wait through a bunch of re-releases to get to new stuff, like Bounty Hunters, Dr. Aphra, Thrawn, Phoenix Squad, etc. They'll probably revise the scale to be 45mm by then though, so get us buying the same crap yet again.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/15 19:44:55


Post by: Theophony


I did not get into imperial assault because I didn’t like the look of the figs. So they didn’t force me to buy both. If you were happy with IA when it came out and you got enjoyment out of it, then great, but it doesn’t have anything to do with this game. We see this same argument with EVERY system that’s out there that revamps. Numarine....oh GW is sticking it to us. They made a new system and need to recoupe their investment. The provided something really nice looking for this system to fund it. You can use the IA figs in this game if you want just like older GW models get used in games where there are new models for the same unit. The only place where it might not be accepted is in tournaments or sponsored events. I haven’t gotten back into Necromunda because A) rules aren’t complete B) all the gangs aren’t out yet. I’d use my old Escher and old buildings, even if they are out of scale.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/15 20:05:14


Post by: LunarSol


Ultimately, there's no real way that FFG was going to release a system that had you using Imperial Assault figures anyway. The Jedi Knight Luke expansion wouldn't contain any of the correct cards or upgrades or anything. I mean, this is a company where you can't even get away with the Stormtroopers in the starter box with expectations you'll buy the standalone expansion.

I'd also be curious if they could even get away with reusing the Imperial Assault stuff. I don't think its quality is competitive with the industry, but even if it was, I'm curious if they can reuse anything Imperial Assault without Hasbro having some of the rights to it. In any case, the real shame to me is just that the quality isn't better still if they were going to bother improving it.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/15 21:45:36


Post by: Vertrucio


There's also the legal matter. Hasbro owns Imperial Assault now, at least partially, or whatever company that sued them.

These, legally, have to be a different scale to avoid further lawsuits.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/15 22:48:56


Post by: Taarnak


 Vertrucio wrote:
There's also the legal matter. Hasbro owns Imperial Assault now, at least partially, or whatever company that sued them.

These, legally, have to be a different scale to avoid further lawsuits.

Source?

That's a new one to me.

These figures look like they will be much closer to 1/48 scale than th3 IA figures. And the quality is much higher if the figures in Sorastoro's videos (2 & 3) are production figures. I'm not terribly excited when companies pull scale changes but if the accompanying quality rises, I'm much more willing to accept it. The IA figures were pretty bad with both quality and scale consistency.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 00:07:06


Post by: ScarletRose


I like the detail, I'm just not sure I want to play another FFG game. I might pick up some of these anyway just to put together, or for when I convince my group to play the RPG.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 01:09:24


Post by: Krinsath


 Taarnak wrote:
 Vertrucio wrote:
There's also the legal matter. Hasbro owns Imperial Assault now, at least partially, or whatever company that sued them.

These, legally, have to be a different scale to avoid further lawsuits.

Source?

That's a new one to me.

These figures look like they will be much closer to 1/48 scale than th3 IA figures. And the quality is much higher if the figures in Sorastoro's videos (2 & 3) are production figures. I'm not terribly excited when companies pull scale changes but if the accompanying quality rises, I'm much more willing to accept it. The IA figures were pretty bad with both quality and scale consistency.


To my knowledge, Hasbro does not own Imperial Assault. What they do own, however, is the license from LucasFilm/Disney to produce any Star Wars board games. Imperial Assault included the skirmish mode to make it "not a boardgame" which evidently Hasbro thought was a load of bunk and took up with the licensor. This in turn lead to an arrangement being worked out which no doubt included money, but also seemingly encompasses that FFG doesn't sell Imperial Assault on their own website.

Likely making Legion's miniatures a different scale and actually not a board game are to make it clear that it's not an end-run on the agreement with Hasbro, along with making them more money than allowing people to re-use IA of course.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 06:32:58


Post by: Collinsas


 Krinsath wrote:

To my knowledge, Hasbro does not own Imperial Assault. What they do own, however, is the license from LucasFilm/Disney to produce any Star Wars board games. Imperial Assault included the skirmish mode to make it "not a boardgame" which evidently Hasbro thought was a load of bunk and took up with the licensor. This in turn lead to an arrangement being worked out which no doubt included money, but also seemingly encompasses that FFG doesn't sell Imperial Assault on their own website.

Likely making Legion's miniatures a different scale and actually not a board game are to make it clear that it's not an end-run on the agreement with Hasbro, along with making them more money than allowing people to re-use IA of course.


I doubt that the lack of availability of Imperial Assault on FFG's website is for any license reasons, if you'll go through their X-Wing range you'll see a number of products which are not available. FFG is notorious for having supply chain issues where items fall out of availability for meany months at a time because they either have not printed enough to meet demand or are waiting for a new batch of production from Asia.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 06:53:19


Post by: Aeneades


 Collinsas wrote:
 Krinsath wrote:

To my knowledge, Hasbro does not own Imperial Assault. What they do own, however, is the license from LucasFilm/Disney to produce any Star Wars board games. Imperial Assault included the skirmish mode to make it "not a boardgame" which evidently Hasbro thought was a load of bunk and took up with the licensor. This in turn lead to an arrangement being worked out which no doubt included money, but also seemingly encompasses that FFG doesn't sell Imperial Assault on their own website.

Likely making Legion's miniatures a different scale and actually not a board game are to make it clear that it's not an end-run on the agreement with Hasbro, along with making them more money than allowing people to re-use IA of course.


I doubt that the lack of availability of Imperial Assault on FFG's website is for any license reasons, if you'll go through their X-Wing range you'll see a number of products which are not available. FFG is notorious for having supply chain issues where items fall out of availability for meany months at a time because they either have not printed enough to meet demand or are waiting for a new batch of production from Asia.


FFG has never sold any Imperial Assault products through its website and they confirmed early on that they were not able to for licencing reasons. This is why the products are listed as “not available” rather than just sold out.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 07:55:13


Post by: Azazelx


 Taarnak wrote:
 Vertrucio wrote:
There's also the legal matter. Hasbro owns Imperial Assault now, at least partially, or whatever company that sued them.

These, legally, have to be a different scale to avoid further lawsuits.

Source?

That's a new one to me.

These figures look like they will be much closer to 1/48 scale than th3 IA figures. And the quality is much higher if the figures in Sorastoro's videos (2 & 3) are production figures. I'm not terribly excited when companies pull scale changes but if the accompanying quality rises, I'm much more willing to accept it. The IA figures were pretty bad with both quality and scale consistency.


I'm not a lawyer, I just play one on forums.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 08:05:58


Post by: Sunny Side Up


/shrug

Whether or not there are licensing issues with Hasbro behind it, FFG didn't do it for Descent/Runewars either. So even without Hasbro in the mix (hypothetical or real), I'd doubt they even considered.

Star War simply because of the name recognition of the licensed brand might have legs on its own. Runewars probably would've desperately needed the "kickstart" of people being able to (easily, with support from FFG to make it smooth) dust off their various Descent goblins and skeletons and what not and start playing Runewars with maybe pdf-rules or 40K-style Index books that have all the rules for all FFG Descent miniatures to launch a somewhat viable Runewars scene.

Instead, despite sharing the same universe and scale, Descent is basically walled-off from Runewars (for all but the most tenacious hobbyists) through the Runewars sales model with cards and dials and all that tied to the miniatures they come with, instead of separate rule/army-books and possibly generic or customizable dials sold separately from miniatures.



First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 10:46:16


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 Krinsath wrote:
 Taarnak wrote:
 Vertrucio wrote:
There's also the legal matter. Hasbro owns Imperial Assault now, at least partially, or whatever company that sued them.

These, legally, have to be a different scale to avoid further lawsuits.

Source?

That's a new one to me.

These figures look like they will be much closer to 1/48 scale than th3 IA figures. And the quality is much higher if the figures in Sorastoro's videos (2 & 3) are production figures. I'm not terribly excited when companies pull scale changes but if the accompanying quality rises, I'm much more willing to accept it. The IA figures were pretty bad with both quality and scale consistency.


To my knowledge, Hasbro does not own Imperial Assault. What they do own, however, is the license from LucasFilm/Disney to produce any Star Wars board games. Imperial Assault included the skirmish mode to make it "not a boardgame" which evidently Hasbro thought was a load of bunk and took up with the licensor. This in turn lead to an arrangement being worked out which no doubt included money, but also seemingly encompasses that FFG doesn't sell Imperial Assault on their own website.

Likely making Legion's miniatures a different scale and actually not a board game are to make it clear that it's not an end-run on the agreement with Hasbro, along with making them more money than allowing people to re-use IA of course.


Is there any actual evidence of this? I mean, every time someone asks for a source, instead all we seem to see is "I heard on a forum that ..." Admittedly, any actual contractual agreement will be confidential, so actually getting a proper source is unlikely.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 11:20:26


Post by: Albertorius


 Krinsath wrote:
This in turn lead to an arrangement being worked out which no doubt included money, but also seemingly encompasses that FFG doesn't sell Imperial Assault on their own website.

That's not actually true, though. At least anywhere not the USA:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.es/juegos/coleccion/star_wars_imperial_assault

So if there's some kind of arrangement, it's only for the USA.

Aeneades wrote:
FFG has never sold any Imperial Assault products through its website and they confirmed early on that they were not able to for licencing reasons. This is why the products are listed as “not available” rather than just sold out.


See above.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 12:43:51


Post by: Krinsath


 Albertorius wrote:
 Krinsath wrote:
This in turn lead to an arrangement being worked out which no doubt included money, but also seemingly encompasses that FFG doesn't sell Imperial Assault on their own website.

That's not actually true, though. At least anywhere not the USA:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.es/juegos/coleccion/star_wars_imperial_assault

So if there's some kind of arrangement, it's only for the USA.

Aeneades wrote:
FFG has never sold any Imperial Assault products through its website and they confirmed early on that they were not able to for licencing reasons. This is why the products are listed as “not available” rather than just sold out.


See above.


Yes, licensing agreements often are for specific territories as international laws vary. As mentioned, FFG has never sold it (to the US) on their own website, and it's not due to "stock issues"; FFG has a status called "Out of Stock" for those situations. Hasbro has the license through 2020, renewed in 2013 for $225 million. Reported on a few forums from a Flight Report about the Imperial Assault/Hasbro question was essentially "It's complicated..." which is about as close to confirmation as we're likely to get.

FFG would have likely changed up the scale regardless because it's more profitable in general, but there are other factors in play at least.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/16 14:01:25


Post by: ZebioLizard2


So we've got some character cards shown.. General Weiss as a Vehicle character makes sense. He's already in an AT-ST in the previous game..

And Wedge as a Repulsor driver, maybe here he'll be more used then in an actual X-wing.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/19 16:40:24


Post by: TalonZahn


So I found this on the Net Tubes today.

https://imgur.com/gallery/vLtE1

Leia and Marines


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/19 17:20:19


Post by: Thargrim


Hmm I was totally ready for Hoth rebels and doing a snowy board. Looks like it's gonna be Endor for me...this kinda sealed the deal.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/19 17:22:59


Post by: TalonZahn


It is kinda weird since the Leia looks like the Hoth Leia, but the Marines kinda throw that off.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/19 18:16:29


Post by: Aeneades


I think it’s Return of the Jedi Leia without the poncho.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/19 18:30:28


Post by: usernamesareannoying


any clue as to why they went with that crazy movement widget?
i wonder if you can just use a tape measure or if the mechanics of the widget change how you move?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/19 18:37:00


Post by: ZebioLizard2


 usernamesareannoying wrote:
any clue as to why they went with that crazy movement widget?
i wonder if you can just use a tape measure or if the mechanics of the widget change how you move?
Because FFG likes you buying their gaming peripherals then anything easy to get outside of it.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/19 21:00:19


Post by: LunarSol


 usernamesareannoying wrote:
any clue as to why they went with that crazy movement widget?
i wonder if you can just use a tape measure or if the mechanics of the widget change how you move?


Two things. One, I assume the game continues to use a variation of Decent dice, which means range part of the dice results and guns naturally get more accurate/do more damage as you get closer. That system doesn't work great for things like inches, so a larger segment makes sense.

Probably more importantly, the vehicles have notches in the front and facing arcs. I assume the movement stick restricts how fast they can turn.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/19 22:09:05


Post by: usernamesareannoying


ah vehicles.
I was strictly thinking about infantry.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/20 03:23:16


Post by: Mezmaron



Over in Europe, it appears that an employee of a French games distributor for Fantasy Flight Games took and posted a photo of two unannounced expansions for Star Wars: Legion on Instagram. This presumably confirms the next unreleased two Rebel expansions as:

Leia Organa (in Endor combat gear)

and

Rebel Fleet Troopers (as seen in ANH)

https://mezmaronslair.blogspot.com/2018/01/star-wars-legion-leak-of-commander-leia.html



First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/23 02:03:12


Post by: angel of death 007


I would like to see some rebels on tauntauns would make for a great Hoth type snow board unit.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/24 21:01:28


Post by: LunarSol


I am just super not excited about the rebel stuff in this game. :(


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/24 21:24:45


Post by: Chairman Aeon


The sculpt for Leia looks soft. If you want to play with the big boys, you better bring your 'A' game.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/24 21:29:45


Post by: Yodhrin


 LunarSol wrote:
I am just super not excited about the rebel stuff in this game. :(


I am. I think I got the Empire mostly out of my system back in my SWG days, and after Rogue One I'm super keen to collect a force of Rebels(even if as is very likely I end up playing them using a game system with a less gratuitously cynical business model). I'm less excited by the "special characters" though, that's one area where Empire have the advantage since outside of Vader most of their characters can easily be used to represent any officer of a similar rank & occupation, while most of the recognisable Rebel officers are "big names" with a fairly unique look.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/24 21:48:37


Post by: JimmyWolf87


On paper, everything about this game should make it an instant buy and a huge success (which it may very well be). I love star wars. I love miniature games. Multi part plastic kits are typically the best way to go from a modelling perspective (for more than a few troops). Yet I find myself increasingly indifferent.

The whole thing just looks... kinda cheap (except the actual price). The boxes and artwork are typical FGG levels of awesome but the actual models.... I don't know. They just don't look good. Maybe the paint job. Maybe the cast quality but they just don't look like their characters. Leia is the worst. Just a pudding face on an awkwardly posed body. Luke is likewise...uncomfortable.

I know we can't expect GW levels of plastics but these don't seem a step up from the Imperial Assault models (which vary massively in terms of scale, cast quality etc.) I might get a set of Stormtroopers just to check them out but I'm really struggling to summon the interest I want to have.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/24 22:30:37


Post by: Thargrim


Well the Leia sculpt is truly horrid, but at least at MM she isn't much more than ten bucks.

Honestly these are the worst models revealed so far. The helmets on the fleet troopers don't even look as accurate as the IA fleet trooper. These look more flat and less rounded at the front. Some questionable poses, but Leia has the worst pose. They should have put the Endor poncho and helmet on her, if you can't sculpt a woman well then at least try and disguise it.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/24 23:48:09


Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured


I wouldn't be surprised if they can't have her looking too much like Leia

Carrie Fisher dying probably complicated getting hold of her image rights. I suspect Disney not doing any cgi of her in the most recent movie wasn't just out of respect even if that was part of it


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/24 23:59:26


Post by: Chikout


It is super weird that neither the article nor the preorder page has closeups of the miniatures for this miniatures game. It really doesn't inspire confidence. I was quite looking forward to this but if this is the quality of the products going forward I will not be buying anything.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/25 00:04:11


Post by: Thargrim


I believe those are all also resin masters, not plastic. The actual plastics have less detail than people might be hoping for. I certainly never expected GW quality, but considering these are larger than IA models I did expect more realism/less stylized look. The paintjobs aren't doing them any favors, the imperials look good because they are hard to mess up. The faces and cloth shading/colors on the rebels could be better. It's pretty much a given that a good painter can do better than these stock paintjobs, which are about tabletop standard.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/29 18:16:39


Post by: Thargrim


https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/1/29/the-imperial-march-1/

March 22nd release date...wish it was Feb...what a bummer.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/01/29 18:22:53


Post by: ZebioLizard2


Wish they had more aliens for Rebels. That way to show that the Rebellion isn't as humancentric as the Empire. Especially after the poorer showing of alien's in the Resistance in the new movies.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/06 01:27:06


Post by: Thargrim


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Wish they had more aliens for Rebels. That way to show that the Rebellion isn't as humancentric as the Empire. Especially after the poorer showing of alien's in the Resistance in the new movies.


I wouldn't mind it if they did a rebel trooper model booster, like a kit of 5 random alien sculpts to sprinke across trooper squads in the army. But that is something they can do down the road. The duplicate sculpts will bother me and that duros one in every squad will get tiresome. But i'm hoping someone out there will do resin 3rd party bits so I can just convert some without having to sculpt myself. I'm working on Endor trees and terrain right now and maybe next month i'll start a hobby log. Since the game isn't out till 40 plus days from now I feel like there isn't a rush, plenty of time to get all the materials and paints that will be needed.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/06 03:32:28


Post by: malfred


Ugh. I can't take Fleet TRoopers seriously.

When they don't remind me of Spaceballs the only other time
I think of them is when Darth Vader is murdering them in a dark corridor.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/06 03:42:08


Post by: rabidaskal


I'm probably gonna skip out on this, but my reason is cause i kinda feel I've been playing iterations of the same broad FFG system ever since Battles of Westeros. You got your alternating terrain placement, semi random objectives decided during setup, unit cards with alternating activations, custom faction deck, etc. Everytime theu do a mechanics reveal, i get flashbacks to BoW, Runewars minis, even that 40K pog game. Xwing was a breath of fresh air, but mechanically this feels very samey to me.

Probably still get a core to paint up cause Star Wars but I think I'll skip the game.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/12 20:38:07


Post by: Thargrim


So it seems numerous unboxings and even gameplay has been put up on youtube in the past 24 hours. With the online rules rumored to be available for download sometime this week.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/12 20:54:15


Post by: warboss


Was SW:Legion just demoed at Gencon last year or was there an initial release as well?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/12 21:01:47


Post by: LunarSol


 warboss wrote:
Was SW:Legion just demoed at Gencon last year or was there an initial release as well?


Demo only. Nothing has been released.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/12 23:49:23


Post by: Yodhrin


 Thargrim wrote:
So it seems numerous unboxings and even gameplay has been put up on youtube in the past 24 hours. With the online rules rumored to be available for download sometime this week.


After five or six attempts, I managed to find an unboxing that spent more than a minute or so vaguely waving the models in front of the camera at arm's length(seriously, almost nobody is watching these to get a detailed look at the fething dice and see a five minute discussion about the fething bases, how do these clowns keep getting sent review copies?), and they actually look fantastic. The plastic is hardened, the level of detail looks great. Some parts look like they'll require a bit of work on the "peg" so they go together seamlessly but I can live with that.

I'm going to have to be careful not to go nuts on this.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/12 23:54:31


Post by: malfred


Links?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/13 00:15:16


Post by: warboss


 LunarSol wrote:
 warboss wrote:
Was SW:Legion just demoed at Gencon last year or was there an initial release as well?


Demo only. Nothing has been released.


Ah, ok, thanks. It's still a larger than normal gap for FFG but not as bad if they didn't prerelease a limited amount early like with Xwing and Armada iirc.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/13 01:23:26


Post by: Thargrim


 Yodhrin wrote:
 Thargrim wrote:
So it seems numerous unboxings and even gameplay has been put up on youtube in the past 24 hours. With the online rules rumored to be available for download sometime this week.


After five or six attempts, I managed to find an unboxing that spent more than a minute or so vaguely waving the models in front of the camera at arm's length(seriously, almost nobody is watching these to get a detailed look at the fething dice and see a five minute discussion about the fething bases, how do these clowns keep getting sent review copies?), and they actually look fantastic. The plastic is hardened, the level of detail looks great. Some parts look like they'll require a bit of work on the "peg" so they go together seamlessly but I can live with that.

I'm going to have to be careful not to go nuts on this.


Yeah they kinda rush their way through things. It boggles me mind they get the game 35+ days earlier than the rest of us and don't even spend time thoroughly looking through the rules booklet. The plastic looks good enough, there are indeed mold lines though. I'm used to dealing with those anyways so not a huge deal. I'm a bit nervous about the stormtroopers cause i've never used white primer before so this'll be interesting. I've already done so much prep work for this game i'll be bummed if I end up disliking the gameplay...thats the only real concern I have left. And I won't really know until it's on the table and i'm trying it for myself.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/13 01:53:22


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


I read this and got excited because it said 'expansions'.

But it looks like by 'expansions' they mean 'additional models'.

And they're pretty hideous. Like, "I left my Mage Knight figures in a hot car for a week" hideous.

Star Wars fanboys will buy this, I'd rather play something with more than two factions in the most ho-hum period of Star Wars.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/13 16:46:25


Post by: Taarnak


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I read this and got excited because it said 'expansions'.

But it looks like by 'expansions' they mean 'additional models'.

And they're pretty hideous. Like, "I left my Mage Knight figures in a hot car for a week" hideous.

Star Wars fanboys will buy this, I'd rather play something with more than two factions in the most ho-hum period of Star Wars.

I can understand the issue with using expansion as the name for additional units. But since these figures include cards and possibly new rules, expansion does fit.

Hideous? Now you are just being disingenuous. The images we've seen so far from unboxing and painting videos shows that these will be every bit as crisp and well detailed as most models out there. Maybe not the absolute highest standard, but really good especially given the material. Now, whether that quality is maintained on a consistent basis or not remains to be seen. Your assertion that they resemble melted figures is completely ridiculous hyperbole.

And the parting shot at "fanboys" drags this very near to troll territory...


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/13 19:30:01


Post by: Enosh


Leia looks kinda bad imho, others are fine
well except the fleet troopers, but that's not FFG fault, they looked stupid since 1977


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/13 19:46:02


Post by: MeanGreenStompa


Christ that Leia mini is gross. This is the face that caused sexual awakening in most of my generation of boys? (not me personally, that was possessed Dana Barrett, Princess Aura and evil Lily).

These look like green army men with paint. After the quality I came to envy in X Wing as I was playing Attack Wing, I know FFG can do better than these offerings.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/13 20:26:41


Post by: Yodhrin


I seriously think people must be looking at different models to the ones I'm looking at.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 01:47:08


Post by: ZebioLizard2


Or it might be that people disagree on the quality of the minature's. It happens y'know.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 02:12:35


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Right, but you can disagree without making personal attacks on people with different opinions to your own.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 02:49:57


Post by: Yodhrin


 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Or it might be that people disagree on the quality of the minature's. It happens y'know.


No, see, you can disagree on whether you like the miniatures, or whether the level of quality they have is sufficient for you, but the actual quality of the models is an objective fact that exists independently of our opinions of them and "they look like green army men" or "'I left my Mage Knight figures in a hot car for a week' hideous" are just wrong. Like, I can look at a picture of these models, and of an army man and a melty(or, indeed, otherwise) Mage Knight figure and see that they're not even remotely equivalent by any sane, rational measure.

I can like chocolate, or dislike chocolate, or think a particular chocolate desert at a restaurant doesn't have sufficient quality to justify it's pricetag, but if I say "that chocolate desert literally looks like a turd on a plate" and it doesn't, in fact, look like a turd on a plate, then I'm wrong.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 03:03:18


Post by: Galas


Are this miniatures HIPS plastic like GW, Malifaux, etc...? Or are they hard plastic like... Mantic? Plastic-Resin hibrids? Or something like that.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 03:35:05


Post by: Thargrim


 Galas wrote:
Are this miniatures HIPS plastic like GW, Malifaux, etc...? Or are they hard plastic like... Mantic? Plastic-Resin hibrids? Or something like that.


I've seen them described as harder plastic, like a less flexible more sturdy version of the runewars stuff. It appears to be better quality than runewars models as well.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 09:42:08


Post by: JimmyWolf87


 Yodhrin wrote:
 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Or it might be that people disagree on the quality of the minature's. It happens y'know.


No, see, you can disagree on whether you like the miniatures, or whether the level of quality they have is sufficient for you, but the actual quality of the models is an objective fact that exists independently of our opinions of them and "they look like green army men" or "'I left my Mage Knight figures in a hot car for a week' hideous" are just wrong. Like, I can look at a picture of these models, and of an army man and a melty(or, indeed, otherwise) Mage Knight figure and see that they're not even remotely equivalent by any sane, rational measure.

I can like chocolate, or dislike chocolate, or think a particular chocolate desert at a restaurant doesn't have sufficient quality to justify it's pricetag, but if I say "that chocolate desert literally looks like a turd on a plate" and it doesn't, in fact, look like a turd on a plate, then I'm wrong.


Ah but that's still a subjective comment as you're then making assumptions about people's relative experiences of turds and chocolate There's no such thing as an 'objective fact' in relation to different perceptions of a creative medium, though the examples we have here of comparison to other models/body matter is exaggerated (re. everything on the internet ever).You're right in that I'd want to kick you in the shins for the use of 'literally' though (bloody millennials...)

I'll admit to being massively underwhelmed with what I've seen thus far of this game. The vehicle sculpts are solid and the artwork is always going to be good from FFG but the character and infantry models have very uncomfortable posing, odd proportions or (in my subjective opinion) are just plain ugly (especially Luke and Leia). Might be the paint jobs contributing.

I could see the models in person and be completely bowled over and my opinion change (I'd actually hope this happens) so I may invest in a box of stormtroopers to test the water.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 10:17:27


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Nothing wrong with the miniatures, IMO. I'd quite like to buy them. Unfortunately, nothing I've seen about the game makes it look like something I'd want to play, and all the extraneous material included in the packages drives the price up too high for me as a collector.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 14:51:39


Post by: EnTyme


I like the vehicle models, but there is just something off about the infantry. It could be that they seem to be using heroic proportions, but everything else about them seems to be going for realism, and the result lands somewhere in the uncanny valley. Watched an unboxing video on the AT-ST yesterday, and I would caution any collectors to weight the base. That thing looks seriously top-heavy.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 14:54:44


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 Taarnak wrote:

Hideous? Now you are just being disingenuous. The images we've seen so far from unboxing and painting videos shows that these will be every bit as crisp and well detailed as most models out there. Maybe not the absolute highest standard, but really good especially given the material. Now, whether that quality is maintained on a consistent basis or not remains to be seen. Your assertion that they resemble melted figures is completely ridiculous hyperbole.


They're plastic toys, not your wife. They don't look great. They look cheap, about like something you'd find in a board game box. That's my opinion of them, you don't have to get upset. If you like them, buy them.

 Taarnak wrote:
And the parting shot at "fanboys" drags this very near to troll territory...


I'm a 40k fanboy.

It's Star Wars. It's not your mother. Please calm down.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Right, but you can disagree without making personal attacks on people with different opinions to your own.


Who was personally attacked? If disparaging a plastic miniature hurts your feelings on a personal level, I strongly recommend contacting a professional as soon as possible.

 Yodhrin wrote:

No, see, you can disagree on whether you like the miniatures, or whether the level of quality they have is sufficient for you, but the actual quality of the models is an objective fact that exists independently of our opinions of them and "they look like green army men" or "'I left my Mage Knight figures in a hot car for a week' hideous" are just wrong. Like, I can look at a picture of these models, and of an army man and a melty(or, indeed, otherwise) Mage Knight figure and see that they're not even remotely equivalent by any sane, rational measure.


No, they look pretty cheap and flimsy. I hope these miniatures are about $15.00 for a pack of 10, otherwise it looks like poor quality. The vehicles are okay.

Saying that someone isn't 'sane' for seeing the same way you do, or having a different measure of quality than you do is a personal attack.

This is why I cringe every time Star Wars makes a foray into gaming like this. There are devotees of Star Wars that take every criticism of the franchise like you walked up into their house and pooped on their family photo and kicked the dog for spite.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 15:40:46


Post by: SnotlingPimpWagon


They look about the same/ a tiny bit better in terms of detail as minis in Mansions of Madness 2nd ed(which is done by FFG as well). And as much as I love MoM2ed, it's not a high praise. Mantic is ahead of the game compared to SW legion, the way I see it.
Imho, FFG are trying to make SW legion as a game suitable for both: war gamers and boardgamers. And it seems to me, CMON are far ahead in this nieche with more impressive minis (for wargamers) and no assembly required (for boardgamers)
Due to the nature of board gaming models, their quality is almost always worse compared to the evergrowing standards of the wargaming world (wyrd, GW, Mierce, Corvus Beli, CMON, even PP). And SW legion quality looks pretty much "boardgame" to me.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 17:20:39


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


CMON produces good board game models. I wouldn't use most for anything else.

I can't blame FFG for taking the cheaper route here for this. If they only do basic "Luke and Rebels vs. Vader and Stormtroopers", I don't really see this having any lasting impact after six months.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/14 20:14:14


Post by: Alpharius


REALLY going to need EVERYONE in this thread to remember to follow RULE #1 in here.

And everywhere on the site too, of course.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/15 22:10:28


Post by: Thargrim


https://blacksixredseven.blogspot.com/2018/02/new-star-wars-legion-unboxing-videos.html

Scale image here of the AT-ST compared with a 40k imperial knight, dreadnought etc. The AT-ST is definitely an impressive centerpiece model, its friggin big....and for it's price it's almost a must have considering it looks more menacing than the imperial knight.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/15 22:23:07


Post by: Galas


Wow! I wasn't expecting it to be that big. How much does it cost?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/15 22:27:28


Post by: Thargrim


 Galas wrote:
Wow! I wasn't expecting it to be that big. How much does it cost?


40 USD from most discount sellers, regular retail with tax might come to around 55 dollars or something like that.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/15 22:27:35


Post by: Aeneades


 Galas wrote:
Wow! I wasn't expecting it to be that big. How much does it cost?


RRP is $50.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/15 22:33:46


Post by: Galas


Wow. Yeah, for that price, in €, and with a Discount... is very tempting, and I don't even like star wars that much


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/15 23:50:27


Post by: warboss


Aeneades wrote:
 Galas wrote:
Wow! I wasn't expecting it to be that big. How much does it cost?


RRP is $50.


Wow, that's surpringly very reasonable for something other than a boxed game from FFG. It's almost the size of the Tantive IV for xwing and that was almost double albeit it comes painted obviously.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/15 23:59:06


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


 Thargrim wrote:
https://blacksixredseven.blogspot.com/2018/02/new-star-wars-legion-unboxing-videos.html

Scale image here of the AT-ST compared with a 40k imperial knight, dreadnought etc. The AT-ST is definitely an impressive centerpiece model, its friggin big....and for it's price it's almost a must have considering it looks more menacing than the imperial knight.


Dear god...imagine how big an AT-AT would be.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 00:09:11


Post by: Thargrim


I'm personally hoping they never make the AT-AT, it would be a pain to play with and use in the game. I'd imagine it would be 1/3rd or even half the length of the playing area. Unless you plan on playing on the entire floor of a room I don't see it having space to move anywhere or do anything. The AT-ST is a fine centerpiece model, i'd rather see the AT-DP, the imperial rogue one tank, etc.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 00:12:46


Post by: warboss


 Thargrim wrote:
I'm personally hoping they never make the AT-AT, it would be a pain to play with and use in the game.


Hold my beer.



Not me in the pic but rather my opponent for the apoc game. I used it as a Tau warlord titan back in 5th ed.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 00:48:25


Post by: Shadow Captain Edithae


Is that a Halo Scarab?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 00:49:00


Post by: angel of death 007


If they make an ATAT then I will probably get one as a display model. I agree it might be a bit big for game play. I am glad I preordered the ATST. After seeing the comparison to the smaller one FFG makes I was sold. Seeing it now with a real comparison makes me happy i pulled the trigger.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 01:01:43


Post by: ncshooter426


Oh man.... that AT-ST is a beast!

Must acquire for shelf.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 01:04:20


Post by: warboss


 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Is that a Halo Scarab?


Yup, it is. It's the most ridiculously impractical and impressive add-on to a Heroclix game of all things in gaming.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 03:10:13


Post by: RedFox


I am impressed by the miniatures quality and size! I think Legion is gonna be a hit, I'll personally stick with Imperial Assault and X-Wing for my SW fix (one wargame, 40k/HH, is well enough for me) but good to see FFG producing quality models.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 06:27:52


Post by: Yodhrin


Honestly with the infantry at this scale, the AT-ST is about as big as you'd want vehicles to go. AT-ATs are more like terrain in 28mm than usable models.

Actually, you know, that would be a great candidate for an MDF kit. AT-AT's are nearly all angles and blocks, lots of flat surfaces with panel detailing, and if you're using it as terrain the legs can be static. Shame it probably won't happen.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 14:15:23


Post by: Kriswall


SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
They look about the same/ a tiny bit better in terms of detail as minis in Mansions of Madness 2nd ed(which is done by FFG as well). And as much as I love MoM2ed, it's not a high praise. Mantic is ahead of the game compared to SW legion, the way I see it.
Imho, FFG are trying to make SW legion as a game suitable for both: war gamers and boardgamers. And it seems to me, CMON are far ahead in this nieche with more impressive minis (for wargamers) and no assembly required (for boardgamers)
Due to the nature of board gaming models, their quality is almost always worse compared to the evergrowing standards of the wargaming world (wyrd, GW, Mierce, Corvus Beli, CMON, even PP). And SW legion quality looks pretty much "boardgame" to me.


I own all of the Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition stuff and have seen the Legion models up close and personal at Gencon. The detail on the Legion minis is much, much better than the MoM minis. I also have a fair amount of Mantic stuff. I would characterize Mantic as below Legion quality. Mantic may have changed, but the models I've purchased have always been disappointing. Maybe it's the scale. Mantic stuff is generally smaller, so it holds less detail.

My opinion, having held the models at Gencon, is that they're below GW's newer stuff in quality, but well above board game level. I think people just need to get their hands on the models and see the quality for themselves.

34 days and counting.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 18:12:59


Post by: LunarSol


If they did an AT-AT I'd expect it to have a removeable top and a handle so it could double as an army transport. Of course, it would also likely cost so many points that you wouldn't have any other models in your army in need of transportation....


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 19:28:18


Post by: Vertrucio


No AT-AT, but if Armada is any indicator, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a Star Wars Battlelore game coming out.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 19:55:12


Post by: Kalamadea


 warboss wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Is that a Halo Scarab?


Yup, it is. It's the most ridiculously impractical and impressive add-on to a Heroclix game of all things in gaming.


I was always more than a bit upset that they made that ing scarab but never a Wraith or Scorpion battle tank

On topic, this stuff is not looking good for the wallet, those unboxings show they're plenty well detailed. REALLY hoping my Infinity escalation league holds my interest away from this long enough to get over New&Shiny syndrome


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 19:59:36


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


So a friend and I are still tentatively looking at this, could be fun.

If we did start it up I think I'd use Snow Troopers mostly. But paint them up in the colors of the Galactic Marines, because old Cannon mentioned the Imperials still having those floating around. That way it makes sense for my Snow Troopers to be everywhere.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 20:11:20


Post by: SnotlingPimpWagon


 Kriswall wrote:
SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
They look about the same/ a tiny bit better in terms of detail as minis in Mansions of Madness 2nd ed(which is done by FFG as well). And as much as I love MoM2ed, it's not a high praise. Mantic is ahead of the game compared to SW legion, the way I see it.
Imho, FFG are trying to make SW legion as a game suitable for both: war gamers and boardgamers. And it seems to me, CMON are far ahead in this nieche with more impressive minis (for wargamers) and no assembly required (for boardgamers)
Due to the nature of board gaming models, their quality is almost always worse compared to the evergrowing standards of the wargaming world (wyrd, GW, Mierce, Corvus Beli, CMON, even PP). And SW legion quality looks pretty much "boardgame" to me.


I own all of the Mansions of Madness 2nd Edition stuff and have seen the Legion models up close and personal at Gencon. The detail on the Legion minis is much, much better than the MoM minis. I also have a fair amount of Mantic stuff. I would characterize Mantic as below Legion quality. Mantic may have changed, but the models I've purchased have always been disappointing. Maybe it's the scale. Mantic stuff is generally smaller, so it holds less detail.

My opinion, having held the models at Gencon, is that they're below GW's newer stuff in quality, but well above board game level. I think people just need to get their hands on the models and see the quality for themselves.

34 days and counting.


Well the repacks of MOM 1st ed stuff is worse, than 2ed (thank god). But if your assesment is on point, I guess FFG should fire their painter, because he did no favours to the Legion minis shown on their website


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 20:38:49


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


Fun fact:

You can now buy Star Wars: The Last Jedi action figures cheaper than you can Legion models.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 20:41:19


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Fun fact:

You can now buy Star Wars: The Last Jedi action figures cheaper than you can Legion models.


Probably because the Legion Models look better than the Last Jedi action figures.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 21:23:13


Post by: Yodhrin


 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So a friend and I are still tentatively looking at this, could be fun.

If we did start it up I think I'd use Snow Troopers mostly. But paint them up in the colors of the Galactic Marines, because old Cannon mentioned the Imperials still having those floating around. That way it makes sense for my Snow Troopers to be everywhere.


That's actually an awesome idea, and as a bonus the Galactic Marines colourscheme is sweet. I might pinch that.


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 21:28:50


Post by: NoggintheNog


A good look at the models painted up in this vid from beats of war




First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 21:30:59


Post by: Adeptus Doritos


 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Probably because the Legion Models look better than the Last Jedi action figures.


Not saying much. Like saying a dog turd is slightly less disgusting than a cat turd.

Has this game even discussed exploring new eras and factions yet?


First Expansions for Star Wars Legions @ 2018/02/16 21:38:40


Post by: VictorVonTzeentch


Yodhrin wrote:
 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
So a friend and I are still tentatively looking at this, could be fun.

If we did start it up I think I'd use Snow Troopers mostly. But paint them up in the colors of the Galactic Marines, because old Cannon mentioned the Imperials still having those floating around. That way it makes sense for my Snow Troopers to be everywhere.


That's actually an awesome idea, and as a bonus the Galactic Marines colourscheme is sweet. I might pinch that.


Have at it my dude.

Adeptus Doritos wrote:
 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Probably because the Legion Models look better than the Last Jedi action figures.


Not saying much. Like saying a dog turd is slightly less disgusting than a cat turd.

Has this game even discussed exploring new eras and factions yet?


They arent that bad of models, I think some if up to the paint.

Not that I have seen.