X-wing with movable s-foils excites me, everything else worries me.
Don't 't get me wrong x-wing has enough FAQ's and changes to warrant a new edition, but recent experience has jaded me of such things.
Star trek attack wing has recently had a second edition and it has effectively killed the game locally. The odd thing is most of the changes are subtle and for the better. Of all the rules changes there is only one I don't think helps the game (having to place maneuver dials in skill order) but for no reason they have decided to drop the cost of all new ships which makes all existing one unplayable in a competitive environment. Image if the x-wings in the new starter set are 7 points cheaper than the current ones for no reason, that sort of change.
I can't see an edition change without a bunch of cards being invalidated, or at least completely re-worded meaning the actual card is pointless.
All upgrade cards are invalidated, but your ships are still OK if you get the conversion kit. Points costs and upgrade slots handled by an app allows for much better balance.
Conversion kits will provide everything you need to bring your first edition ships into second. In addition, any new ship cards and pilots from section edition will also be included."
“All wings report in!”
–Red Leader, Star Wars: A New Hope
From the skies of Scarif in Rogue One to the climatic clash above Endor in Return of the Jedi, starfighters have played a pivotal role in almost every defining battle of the Galactic Civil War. During these confrontations, the brave members of the Rebel Alliance faced seemingly insurmountable odds, squaring off against the merciless forces of the Galactic Empire in intense, ship-to-ship space combat.
Since its release, X-Wing™ Miniatures Game has invited you to enter the Star Wars galaxy and play out your own battles with some of the series’ most iconic starfighters. Leading custom-built squadrons into fast-paced, high-stakes battles, you’ve flown with the Galactic Empire, the Rebel Alliance, and the Scum and Villainy of the galaxy in countless battles. You’ve modified your ships for every scrap of speed, maneuverability, and firepower. Now, it’s time for a new chapter in your X-Wing journey.
Today, Fantasy Flight Games is excited to announce the next evolution of your interstellar dogfights: X-Wing™ Second Edition, a game of daring space combat for two players! With three fully assembled and beautifully pre-painted ships, and all the cards, movement tools, tokens, and dice that you need to get flying with the second edition, the X-Wing Second Edition Core Set is the perfect way to introduce yourself to the new mechanics or experience X-Wing for the first time.
While the X-Wing Second Edition Core Set provides everything you need to get started with your first space battles in the new edition, it isn’t all that will be on offer. You can bring your full collection of first edition ships into the new edition with Conversion Kits for the Galactic Empire, Rebel Alliance, and Scum and Villainy. What’s more, a full hangar bay of expansions will launch alongside the Core Set, giving you plenty of options for creating your squadrons and customizing your X-Wing Second Edition experience.
Click these links to read more about the Rebel Alliance, Galactic Empire, and Scum and Villainy content that will be available at launch! Then, click here to learn more about the Organized Play program for X-Wing Second Edition.
Why Second Edition?
Since 2012 and the release of the game, X-Wing Miniatures Game has grown and expanded to become a massive bestseller. Fourteen waves and fifty-eight distinct starships provided a massive library of ships and tactical possibilities, giving you the chance to field hundreds of unique squadrons in their space battles across the Star Wars saga.
Despite the massive success of the game’s first edition, we believe that by advancing the game to a second edition, X-Wing can offer an even better experience! There are four primary places where we believe X-Wing Second Edition will offer a renewed and improved experience:
With X-Wing Second Edition, gameplay has been refined across the board, implementing minor tweaks and changes to improve the game’s flow, clean up interactions, and refocus the game on the physical act of flying starships. For more information about the gameplay tweaks implemented in X-Wing Second Edition, click here to read our FAQ!
The Force is a crucial part of the Star Wars galaxy that has historically played a smaller role in the game of X-Wing. With the release of X-Wing Second Edition, we have the chance to implement the Force as an important part of the game, affecting how you fly your ships and the choices that you make in the heat of battle. For more information about the Force and how it plays out in your games of X-Wing, just keep reading!
Faction identities have been strengthened in X-Wing Second Edition, giving each faction more unique tactics and strategies. Flying a squadron of Scum and Villainy starships should feel very different from flying an Imperial squadron, and with the game’s second edition, those differences are more present than ever before. What’s more, the First Order and Resistance have been reformed into their own distinct factions, separate from the Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire, with their own themes, strengths, and weaknesses.
An official X-Wing squad builder app / website will be implemented, bringing a new level of dynamic play to Organized Play and casual games alike. This X-Wing squad builder gives players an easy way to assemble their squadrons and manage their collection, and it also allows the Organized Play team to explore dozens of new possibilities with alternate formats for the game. The point cost of ships and upgrades and the upgrade slots available to ships can be adjusted for the course of a single event, a tournament series, or an entire season of the game. Ultimately, the X-Wing squad builder app creates dynamic and constantly evolving Organized Play unlike anything that was possible before. For more information about the X-Wing squad builder app, read on.
Fly into the Fray
“I know a few maneuvers. We’ll lose ‘em!”
–Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope
X-Wing Second Edition puts you in command of your own squadron of advanced starfighters locked in thrilling, tactical space combat. Following in the footsteps of the first edition, the second edition refines the intuitive and exciting core formula of maneuvering your ships into position by placing a central focus on the visceral thrill of flying starships in the Star Wars galaxy.
During a battle, you’ll use your squadron’s unique capabilities to give yourself an advantage in the thick of combat. Each X-Wing ship flies differently, with its own set of maneuvers ranging from gentle banks to aggressive Koiogran turns. As in the game’s first edition, you’ll need to use every ship’s maneuvering capabilities to the fullest in order to strategically position your ships. A round begins with players secretly selecting a maneuver on each of their ships’ unique maneuver dials. Once you’ve decided how each of your ships is going to fly, you’ll begin revealing the dials and moving your ships, starting with the lowest skilled pilots.
As you move, you’ll enter a tense duel with your opponent as you both try to line up the perfect shot. Before you can open fire on an opponent’s ship, however, they must be in your firing arc and within range. By carefully selecting your maneuvers, you can get enemy ships in your sights, and once you’ve locked onto your target, you’re free to choose your plan of attack. You might pepper the enemy with blaster fire to whittle away their shields. Or, you could go for massive damage and launch a devastating volley of proton torpedoes. No matter how you approach the battle, you have complete control of your squadron. One player wins when all of their opponent’s ships are destroyed!
Slick flying is certainly important, but it isn’t the only consideration you’ll have to make in the midst of a dogfight. As in the first edition of X-Wing, once your ships have completed a maneuver, you can also perform an action to gain the upper hand. Whether you choose to acquire a target lock on a rival ship or barrel roll out of an enemy’s firing arc, the actions you take affect the course of the battle and determine the fate of your squadron.
Now, in the second edition of the game, your actions offer greater strategic depth than ever before. Some actions are red and induce stress when they are used. Other actions may be linked, allowing you to chain two actions together and push the limits of how your ship can handle in a dogfight! We’ll be covering every part of X-Wing Second Edition gameplay in much more detail in a series of in-depth previews. Stay tuned to our website for more information!
Use the Force
“For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is.”
–Yoda, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
The Force is an iconic part of the Star Wars galaxy, and some of the best pilots, including Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader, have been able to use this energy source to push themselves—and their starfighters—to the limits of their capabilities.
Fittingly then, X-Wing Second Edition introduces Force powers into the game, giving Force-sensitive pilots an extra edge in the heat of battle. Pilots with the ability to exert their influence over the Force have Force charges that they can spend to perform awe-inspiring feats, far beyond the abilities of normal pilots.
At their most basic, these charges can be spent to improve a pilot’s aim or give them an extra push to avoid incoming fire. Using a Force charge lets you change a single focus result on attack or defense to a hit or evade result! When paired with upgrade cards, however, Force-sensitive pilots become even more versatile. Upgrades that require Force charges can make Force-sensitive pilots more perceptive of their surroundings, give them supernatural reflexes, or even grant them the ability to reach out and sense where their opponent will move next.
While the Force can be a powerful ally in the midst of battle, it is also a finite resource. You must choose the right moment to spend your charges to ensure they have the greatest impact on the battle. Trust your feelings and let the Force flow through you!
Iconic Ships
“We’ll have to destroy them ship to ship. Get the crews to their fighters.”
–Darth Vader, Star Wars: A New Hope
X-Wing is known for bringing starships from across the Star Wars galaxy to life in beautifully-detailed miniatures. On top of the T-65 X-wing and two TIE fighters included in the X-Wing Second Edition Core Set, the many X-Wing Second Edition expansions give players plenty of options for building a squadron that fits your playstyle.
Whether you prefer the versatile starfighters of the ragtag Rebel Alliance, the speed and overwhelming numbers of the Galactic Empire, or the unpredictability of the galaxy’s most wretched Scum and Villainy, all three factions will be represented at launch. New players can expand their collections with X-Wing Second Edition ship expansions while veterans can use each faction’s conversion kit to bring their entire collection of first edition ships into the game’s second edition.
Each conversion kit contains a massive array of second edition cards, tokens, and maneuver dials for the ships previously released in the game’s first edition. Between the conversion kits and the support offered by the X-Wing squad builder app, you’ll have everything that you need to completely customize your squadron and play with all of your existing ships in the game’s second edition. You can follow these links for more information on all of the products coming out for the Galactic Empire, Rebel Alliance, and Scum and Villainy factions. For more information about the X-Wing squad builder app, read on!
Furthermore, the X-Wing Second Edition Dice Pack will be available alongside the release of the Core Set. This accessory includes three red attack dice and three green defense dice, identical to those found in the Core Set. With this tool of convenience at your side, your battles can keep up with even the fastest starfighter.
Of course, the Star Wars saga encompasses more than just the Galactic Civil War. The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi continue the story, dramatizing the struggle between the Resistance and First Order. Rather than continue as sub-factions of the Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire, the Resistance and the First Order are being expanded into their own complete factions in X-Wing Second Edition! These factions will be introduced during the second wave of expansions, with their own conversion kits for veteran players to bring their existing First Order and Resistance ships into the game.
Build Your Squad
“Man your ships!”
–General Dodonna, Star Wars: A New Hope
Once you’ve chosen a faction, it’s time to build your squadron. X-Wing Second Edition gives you a massive amount of freedom to select the ships, pilots, and upgrades that you want to fly. Ace pilots such as Luke Skywalker and Iden Versio bring special abilities to the fray, giving them an advantage over other pilots. On top of the tricks that your pilots can bring to the battle, aces and rank-and-file pilots alike can customize their ships with modifications, secondary weapons, astromech droids, and special skills that add new variety and tactical depth to every game. In the second edition, however, the exact upgrades which each ship can equip are determined by the X-Wing squad builder app, which we’ll explore more below!
The upgrade cards that you choose give your pilots special abilities or alternative ways to attack, giving you more flexibility in the middle of a battle. You’ll choose your upgrades using the Quick Build cards or the official X-Wing squad builder app before the game starts, as part of assembling your squadron. Once equipped, the new, horizontally-aligned upgrade cards are tucked partially beneath the ship card or another equipped upgrade—allowing you to clearly view the text and any new icons that the upgrade adds to your ship.
When you’re pulling together a squadron to battle against a friend, X-Wing Second Edition offers two excellent ways to assemble your squadrons. If you want to jump into action right away, you can use the Quick Build cards for each ship to easily put together balanced squadrons. These cards include predefined selections of pilots and upgrades, with a threat level that represents the strength of that particular combination. All you have to do to get playing is choose a threat level, select a combination of Quick Build cards that add up to that threat level, and start playing!
If you want full control over the pilots and upgrades in your squadron, however, X-Wing Second Edition introduces the X-Wing squad-builder app. In the first edition of X-Wing, a ship’s upgrade slots and the point costs of ship cards and upgrade cards were printed directly on the card. With the advent of X-Wing Second Edition, these point values and upgrade slots will be governed by the app! Rather than using point values printed on the ship cards and upgrade cards, the squad-builder tracks all point values and the upgrade slots available to a ship at any time. What’s more, this app explains the rules of squad-point building and enforces these rules so that players do not accidentally build illegal squads.
Not only does the X-Wing squad builder app enable fast, accurate list-building, the versatility of the X-Wing squad builder app means that it will be easy to support multiple formats of play, creating a more dynamic play environment. Whether you’re playing at a tournament or around your table at home, the squad builder can be used to create specific formats that test all of your squad-building abilities. The point costs or upgrade slots available to certain ships could be easily adjusted for the course of a single event, a series of tournaments, or a season of the game.
The dynamic approach to X-Wing formats given by the X-Wing squad builder app gives the Organized Play team an opportunity to create unforgettable and unique tournament formats. You can even use the X-Wing squad builder app to create your own custom formats if you’re playing at home or running your own tournament in a local store! By restricting certain cards, you can create a tournament format that’s as unique as the game experience you want to explore.
Future previews will explore the Quick Build cards and the squad builder app in much more detail, showing you just how you’ll be able to pick your pilots, outfit their ships, and jump into the thick of battle!
A New Beginning
“The Force will be with you. Always.”
–Obi-Wan Kenobi, Star Wars: A New Hope
Enemy ships are on your scanners and you only have a few seconds to issue your commands. Experience the next era of interstellar Star Wars battles with X-Wing Second Edition!
Look for X-Wing Second Edition (SWZ01) to be sold early at Gen Con 2018, with a wide release on September 13th, 2018. Pre-order your copy at your local retailer or online through our website today!
Nope. Not chasing that dragon again. Its a super fun casual game, but I made the mistake of thinking it could be a good tournament game that was also affordable.
Unless this new app gives you unlimited access to all upgrades in infinite amounts, I don't want to be involved with stuff like buying four terrible K-wings, just for a given card, etc...
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Nope. Not chasing that dragon again. Its a super fun casual game, but I made the mistake of thinking it could be a good tournament game that was also affordable.
Unless this new app gives you unlimited access to all upgrades in infinite amounts, I don't want to be involved with stuff like buying four terrible K-wings, just for a given card, etc...
In all fairness, a second edition allows FFG to correct this aspect of X-Wing. Both Runewars and Legion are a lot better about upgrade distribution (though not completely perfect).
The game has been in dire need of this for several years now. I'm really excited about it.
Best of all, most of the changes really feel like they're decoupling the game from physical components. That should greatly improve their ability to design and grow the game.
All in all, it looks like everything people have been asking for for years now. I know 3-4 of my specific wishlist items are specifically called out here, so I'm pretty happy.
First I really looking forward to the new edition
especially because I don't need to get that U-Wing Box to get an X-Wing Fix
But it will be expensive as I would need 2 upgrade packs and I doubt that there will be enough inside to get all my X-Wings and Tie Fighters Upgraded
Much as I’m scornful for FFG’s ‘make it suck, make them pay more later’ business model, at least they’re doing the upgrade boxes, rather than making you wait for ship’s to be released.
Wonder how well their sales on the U-Wing and other new sets are going to do in the meantime? On one hand, you’ll still need the ships. On the other? How many will prefer to wait and see how 2nd Ed is received?
So, what's the incentive for veteran players here? We get to enjoy the privilege of paying yet more money for stuff we already paid for? A cost that new players won't have to pay, at that.
Seriously, what the hell happened at FFG? Is there something I'm missing here? This game was already kind of scummy and greedy, but this is so grossly egregious; it punishes you for being a player already! It doesn't make any sense. Instead of doing something to retain exsting players, the idea seems to be that we're idiots who will buy anything they put out, so literally just charge them some extra cash money to keep playing the game they already bought.
Unfortunately for me it doesn't seem like they've corrected one of my biggest issues with the game - all the TIEs are noticeably oversized.
I can just about get on board with the argument for a "sliding scale" when talking about the big, Epic Play ships, but the fact they employ it even for things like TIEs and U-Wings is just bizarre to me.
Also, looking at video, looks like the Falcon at least, and by extrapolation quite possibly most turrets will have that spinnywidgetydoodah on their base. My guess is you select which fire arc a given turret is covering.
Falcon of course, classically, has two turret guns, top and bottom. So for now, I’m not reading too much into the two point nature - front and back/left and right. That could be unique to the Falcon for the aforementioned observation.
Either way, that’s at least bringing a bit more skill to using turrets, in the same way as Imperial Knights previously had to assign their shield to a quadrant.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jambles wrote: So, what's the incentive for veteran players here? We get to enjoy the privilege of paying yet more money for stuff we already paid for? A cost that new players won't have to pay, at that.
Seriously, what the hell happened at FFG? Is there something I'm missing here? This game was already kind of scummy and greedy, but this is so grossly egregious; it punishes you for being a player already! It doesn't make any sense. Instead of doing something to retain exsting players, the idea seems to be that we're idiots who will buy anything they put out, so literally just charge them some extra cash money to keep playing the game they already bought.
Bye, X-Wing.
Whoa their Pedro. Again, I’m normally scornful of FFG’s business model here. But, is the upgrade/conversion box really any different to a new Codex when all is said and done?
Jambles wrote: So, what's the incentive for veteran players here? We get to enjoy the privilege of paying yet more money for stuff we already paid for? A cost that new players won't have to pay, at that.
Seriously, what the hell happened at FFG? Is there something I'm missing here? This game was already kind of scummy and greedy, but this is so grossly egregious; it punishes you for being a player already! It doesn't make any sense. Instead of doing something to retain exsting players, the idea seems to be that we're idiots who will buy anything they put out, so literally just charge them some extra cash money to keep playing the game they already bought.
Bye, X-Wing.
/flounce
Seriously, so should FFG just foot the cost of printing and distributing all the upgrade boxes themselves? I don't think there was any other option that wouldn't piss off current players more (re-buy all the ships? App only junk that would cut out the people who just want a wargame without any tablets?)
Expected I guess. They have pretty much done all they can with the first version.
I have to admit, Star Wars X-Wing was a pleasant surprise. I had more fun with less miniatures that I didn't have to paint and yet looked awesome than any other game I've played. But regardless of what v2 brings, I already have all that I need from v1, and don't consider it broken or anything.
So FFG finally bit the bullet and went for a full overhaul. Depending on the price of the conversion kits I might give this a go, even if its just to satisfy my slightly ocd urge to keep my models "current" even though I rarely play.
The 2nd ed X-Wings are a new model, any indication if the other ships are new sculpts or repacked versions of the existing sculpts?
The mention of making the Resistance and the First Order into there own factions makes me think that FFG may be leaving the door open for the addition of the Republic and Separatist forces in the future.
Jambles wrote: So, what's the incentive for veteran players here? We get to enjoy the privilege of paying yet more money for stuff we already paid for? A cost that new players won't have to pay, at that.
Seriously, what the hell happened at FFG? Is there something I'm missing here? This game was already kind of scummy and greedy, but this is so grossly egregious; it punishes you for being a player already! It doesn't make any sense. Instead of doing something to retain exsting players, the idea seems to be that we're idiots who will buy anything they put out, so literally just charge them some extra cash money to keep playing the game they already bought.
Bye, X-Wing.
Do you drop every game when a new edition is released or are you making a special exception for X-Wing
Jambles wrote: So, what's the incentive for veteran players here? We get to enjoy the privilege of paying yet more money for stuff we already paid for? A cost that new players won't have to pay, at that.
Seriously, what the hell happened at FFG? Is there something I'm missing here? This game was already kind of scummy and greedy, but this is so grossly egregious; it punishes you for being a player already! It doesn't make any sense. Instead of doing something to retain exsting players, the idea seems to be that we're idiots who will buy anything they put out, so literally just charge them some extra cash money to keep playing the game they already bought.
Bye, X-Wing.
I feel like you're coming off as a little unreasonable here. This is no different than any other game coming out with a new edition. When 40k 8e came out, I had to buy a rulebook ($60), three Indexes ($75) and now three Codexes ($130) for my TWO armies. I had to spend $265 to cover the new edition rules for my TWO armies... Necrons and Space Marines w/AdMech support. The idea of having to spend $50 to upgrade my existing X-Wing Scum fleet to be 2.0 compliant isn't exactly a dealbreaker. With 40k, you had to buy new rules. With X-Wing, the rules are free and you'll instead buy new components.
Game has been in need of a new edition, but I’m not too sure about the direction with the app - I use an app to build my list now, but the app controlling which upgrades you can assign to ships is a bit worrisome to me. I’ll have to see a faction unboxing I believe before I’ll know this is for me.
Should be a great time to get cheap ships off e-bay though from those who are going to dump instead of upgrade.
Yodhrin wrote: Unfortunately for me it doesn't seem like they've corrected one of my biggest issues with the game - all the TIEs are noticeably oversized.
I can just about get on board with the argument for a "sliding scale" when talking about the big, Epic Play ships, but the fact they employ it even for things like TIEs and U-Wings is just bizarre to me.
They're really not. We've just had years of TIEs in games and stuff being too small for a person to fit inside the cockpit.
Game has been in need of a new edition, but I’m not too sure about the direction with the app - I use an app to build my list now, but the app controlling which upgrades you can assign to ships is a bit worrisome to me. I’ll have to see a faction unboxing I believe before I’ll know this is for me.
Should be a great time to get cheap ships off e-bay though from those who are going to dump instead of upgrade.
Even if you're not dumping the game wholesale, I expect a lot of people will take the opportunity to prune their collections a bit and drop factions now that the game has grown to a point where there's a pretty overwhelming number of options for everyone.
Yodhrin wrote: Unfortunately for me it doesn't seem like they've corrected one of my biggest issues with the game - all the TIEs are noticeably oversized.
I can just about get on board with the argument for a "sliding scale" when talking about the big, Epic Play ships, but the fact they employ it even for things like TIEs and U-Wings is just bizarre to me.
They're really not. We've just had years of TIEs in games and stuff being too small for a person to fit inside the cockpit.
Yeah IIRC there was an article ages ago about how FFG used the original ep4 Tie models to get the scale "right".
Subscribed. I was a big fan in the beginning despite the Pokemon style collecting. While I still liked the ships and was buying two of each anyways, I didn't mind the catch'em all release schedule. Once the ships mainly turned to repaints and EU ones I didn't want, my interest waned as I wasn't going to buy a ship just for a card to keep up with her metas and power creep. Plus, two of three years in, it already felt bloated to me. YMMV. If the upgrades really do out new/returning players on equal footing with completionists, I might try it again.
I have all three factions..so I will be in for a chunk of money when it comes out..
But what worries me the most is the App.. I have a few player friends that live in the middle of no where.
They are lucky to get reception if not on wifi.. and most game shops don't supply wifi that I know of.
Am I reading this wrong?? So to make a list you will need the app, otherwise without it you have no way
of knowing your points total?? I know GW made their points that they can change when needed, but online
only concerns me for people that might not have access all the time.
Other thing is the new design of the dials.. The window allowed you to clearly see what the arrow you were on..
Now it just a marker, so no more quick glances to see what your opponent is doing.. Step backward on this...
warboss wrote: Subscribed. I was a big fan in the beginning despite the Pokemon style collecting. While I still liked the ships and was buying two of each anyways, I didn't mind the catch'em all release schedule. Once the ships mainly turned to repaints and EU ones I didn't want, my interest waned as I wasn't going to buy a ship just for a card to keep up with her metas and power creep. Plus, two of three years in, it already felt bloated to me. YMMV. If the upgrades really do out new/returning players on equal footing with completionists, I might try it again.
I got lucky - I liked about 99% of the ships in the game (Hound’s Tooth and Hawk being the two off the top of my head I didn’t like), so I never felt the “gotta buy this ship to get that card” because I was going to get the ship anyway. The last few waves though I have found myself passing on, the ships had gotten to the point I wasn’t familiar with them (and I realized I was probably never going to fly a Scum faction list, so stopped buying for that faction), so my purchases had really slowed down. I think the last thing I picked up was the imperial missile boat - none of the others in that wave, and just imperials for the prior two or three.
I certainly want to give the new rules a try, but at this point I’m doubtful I’ll pick up new models, and therefore new cards past the initial release. Can’t imagine I’ll be the only one.
Yodhrin wrote: Unfortunately for me it doesn't seem like they've corrected one of my biggest issues with the game - all the TIEs are noticeably oversized.
I can just about get on board with the argument for a "sliding scale" when talking about the big, Epic Play ships, but the fact they employ it even for things like TIEs and U-Wings is just bizarre to me.
They're really not. We've just had years of TIEs in games and stuff being too small for a person to fit inside the cockpit.
Yeah IIRC there was an article ages ago about how FFG used the original ep4 Tie models to get the scale "right".
They also claim they got the A-Wing scale "right", and that's nonsense as well. Basing the scales on the relative sizes of the actual shooting props is a moronic way to determine the scale since the shooting props were not built to a consistent scale themselves - even ILM themselves know that, which is why when they were prepping for Rogue One they went back and scaled every single digital prop for the film properly based on the pilot, giving a TIE/ln length of 7.24m, or about 26mm in X-Wing scale, while FFG's TIEs are 33mm. That's a ~22% size difference which of course is replicated in all dimensions, meaning the TIE series are more like 1/220-1/230 scale than 1/270-1/275 as they should be.
And it's not as if it was impossible for FFG to come to a similar measurement before R1 - the guy on the RebelScale website managed to get an estimate for TIE length of 7.3m just by eyeballing behind-the-scenes pictures of the cockpit set relative to the canopy.
Now of course at this point typically people who don't care about scale will just claim it's trivial - but if it's trivial, there's no reason not to get it right.
EDIT: And the app apparently will require an internet connection for some inexplicable reason, since they stated they're providing a PDF with all the points listed for people who prefer doing it oldschool and for those with intermittent 'net access.
EDIT: And the app apparently will require an internet connection for some inexplicable reason, since they stated they're providing a PDF with all the points listed for people who prefer doing it oldschool and for those with intermittent 'net access.
The app will require an internet connection to get updates I'm sure, but the existence of the latter isn't much reason to assume it will require an active connection for use. None of FFG's other apps do and it would actually take a fair amount of effort to add it to something like this. They're just adding the PDF option because there's always people that insist their flip phone is good enough. PP does the same thing and people actually show up with laminated copies of those card db printouts for some reason.
2 – Alpha-class Star Wing
3 – Inquisitor’s TIE
2 – Lambda-class Shuttle
2 – TIE Advanced
3 – TIE Aggressor
3 – TIE Bomber
2 – TIE Defender
4 – TIE Fighter
3 – TIE Interceptor
2 – TIE Phantom
2 – TIE Punisher
3 – TIE Striker
3 – VT-49 Decimator
When an existing ship is re-released or re-packaged or whatever they're going to call it, will they put in a sneaky new card or 2 that weren't in the conversion box? Forcing people to re-buy all the models again for a card?
I'm out if that happens.
Also sucks that in a game called X-Wing, they only saw fit to put 2 X-wings in the conversion pack but 2 versions of a unique design like Sabine's TIE.
When an existing ship is re-released or re-packaged or whatever they're going to call it, will they put in a sneaky new card or 2 that weren't in the conversion box? Forcing people to re-buy all the models again for a card?
I'm out if that happens.
Also sucks that in a game called X-Wing, they only saw fit to put 2 X-wings in the conversion pack but 2 versions of a unique design like Sabine's TIE.
The upgrade box's just don't work, one won't cover my collection because I have multiple copies of some ships (i.e 4 x-wings) and buying multiple copies means I paying for lots of duplicates I don't need.
They would have to sell upgrade cards packs for each ship already released indiviually, and they would need to be super cheap for me to even consider moving to 2nd edition.
Everyone in my small gaming group has had the same reaction, I'm out. So we already know we will stick with the original edition, I just don't see what the new edition can offer that would make me justify the expense of upgrading my collection to the new rules.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Going by the descriptions in the news articles the first waves of 2nd ed ship blisters have the same cards that are in the upgrade boxes.
They have aluded to the fact that this will not be the case (for ships releasing alongside the 2.0 core box) but I suspect they will be very lawyery about the wording.. and that this WILL happen from Wave 2 of the reprints onwards.
Just watched the Team Covenant video and the key take away points for me (YMMV!) are the following..
1) Points costs are going off of the card into an app and maybe a pdf file. Not a fan of that change as I build my lists with the cards not an app. I don't see how that single number was somehow daunting to new players of any age old enough to fit their own recommended demographics (14 and up according to FFG).
2) Pilot stats are also disappearing off of the cardboard inserts you put on the bases of ships in order to put more complex firing arcs on there with less clutter. Again, not a fan of that either. When teaching new players, it was infinitely easier to tell them to look at the actual model's base to find a stat than to have them hunt for a card out of dozen(s) in front of them.
3) Upgrade cards will apparently be faction based. If you're a pure Rebel player, you don't have to buy multiples of an Imperial fighter to get multiple "I have you now!" cards or somesuch. If you want to catch'em all, you just have to buy your own faction. A positive change in my book despite my own previous history of buying multiples of everything for the first half dozen waves or so (I quit buying everything around the time the TIE Defender came out).
4) The buy in to convert your existing collection (cardboard compenents, cards, dials) to the new edition will be $40 for the core set + $50 per faction update box. If you're an Imp and Rebel player, you'll need to fork out $140+tax/shipping. There are luckily according to Red's listing on page 1 at least two dials per ship (more for spammable ones like TIE fighters) but $50 for some card components is a bit of sticker shock for me personally but still within the realm of fair overall. YMMV.
5) There will be 5 factions as resistance and new order instead of just 3. I can see why they did that and why they wouldn't do Separatists and Old Republic as well since those likely won't be getting new stuff.
6) X wing models will have moveable wings to put them into attack position!
Stormonu wrote: I got lucky - I liked about 99% of the ships in the game (Hound’s Tooth and Hawk being the two off the top of my head I didn’t like), so I never felt the “gotta buy this ship to get that card” because I was going to get the ship anyway. The last few waves though I have found myself passing on, the ships had gotten to the point I wasn’t familiar with them (and I realized I was probably never going to fly a Scum faction list, so stopped buying for that faction), so my purchases had really slowed down. I think the last thing I picked up was the imperial missile boat - none of the others in that wave, and just imperials for the prior two or three.
Yeah, me too. The Imperial missile boat (or gunboat?) was my last and the only ones in the past couple years prior to that were the U-wing and two of the Force Awakens X-wings. I don't want to send out the wrong message and have folks think I didn't like the idea of including EU stuff (I did!) but I only bought the EU stuff that I had nostalgia for and felt no need to chase after cards in ships that I couldn't even identify despite my 30+ years of Star Wars fandom. I only wish they came out with an official TIE Predator but given the era that its from it's understandable they didn't.
Regarding point 3, what they said specifically was that you wouldnt have to buy, say, the Imperial Conversion pack if you are a Rebel player (on the basis that there were cards in it that you could use in your Rebel fleet, but did not come in your Rebel Conversion pack). What this means - I suspect - is that the packs will consist of 30ish cards that are only useable in that faction.. so your YT-1300 title cards etc.. and 120ish generic cards like Proton Torpedos, Heavy Laser Cannon etc, and the generic cards will be the same in each Conversion pack.
This also ties in with what was said about the initial wave of releases - so I don't think the 2.0 X-wing will include cards that were not in the Rebel Conversion pack (nor generic cards that were absent from the Imperial and Scum packs) but going forwards with Wave 2 etc I think it will be business as usual.
Wow; that's a sticker shock. For a game I casually play with small collections for each of the factions, there's no way I'm keeping current with that. I'm used to $10-20 faction deck updates... I don't care how many do-dads they added; that's not a practical change, in my book.
Having read through the contents of the conversion packs I'd need 5, plus the new starter. The cost of which could buy me entire army's of MODELS for basically any other game system you can name.
Not going to happen FFG.
Also the must use app - playing Wargames is something I do to get away from staring at a screen all day. I hope this doesn't catch on with other games.
So Turrets have changed,
ordnance is now multi shot with the number of uses on the card, force abilities are in,
squadron abilities maybe in,
medium bases are in,
all ships gain the bullseye arc,
the phases have been renamed to make things clearer (hopefully).
Upgrades are now limited to specific pilots.
Multi actions at once are a thing without cards like PTL.
Actions can now cause stress.
Wave 14 stuff is multi edition.
Reserves are now a thing with new placement options.
Some titles and abilities are now baked into the ship.
Scuurg and Firespray are now Scum only.
Looks like regenerate is now an action.
Pilot skill have gone down accross the board.
Resistance and FO are now their own uniqu factions.
New templates are easier to sort bumps.
Revamp of the organised play system (mostly just renaming stuff seemingly).
200pts system, though we cant tell that because nothing is costed on the card because that's now on the app only (except for GW like power levels).
New Y-Wing and Fang fighter models with the core set X-Wing being the new moveable wings one.
Lambda finally gets a rear arc!
And a new damage deck so the new core is a must.
Sure it is. GW rules you buy in a book and you're done. You don't have to buy the rules with miniatures or get 'upgrades' to replace all your useless cards.
Well the upgrade boxes per faction are going to be $50, the new core set is $40 (both USD). They contain everything you need to upgrade from V1 to V2, including all the cards. That seems pretty comparable to GW.
TBF, I started X Wing because I was sick of 40K, and it's only really recently this has ever been a problem, largely because there wasn't sufficient design space to do anything new, but huge commercial pressure to release new product. So you got Malibu Stacey with a new blaster turret.
I played almost exclusively X Wing for 3 years+ and had a blast most of the time, happily buying all the new stuff because the new stuff meant more fun.
If I never play a game of second and sell my stuff, I won't regret a single minute or £ spent on the game.
Yeah the second edition is very needed, especially in the competitive scene. There is no need to rebuy individual ships to get all the stuff (unless you want the upgraded models) as the conversion packs are stated to contain all the exact same cards.
I guess some people just need an excuse to whine? May as well just carry on playing V1 if its a problem, FFG haven't installed self destruct devices into it.
For those interested here is a vid from Team Covenant that goes into detail for content and game play, including a demo game by the designer.
Sure it is. GW rules you buy in a book and you're done. You don't have to buy the rules with miniatures or get 'upgrades' to replace all your useless cards.
As someone noted elsewhere, to move into 40k 8th edition you needed the rulebook, then the indexes, and then the codices. And even then some options for specific models.had been removed invalidating elements of individual model collections. The companies have different methods of disseminating rules, but in either system upgrading to a new version requires a lot of paper products at significant expense.
I'm not complaining as I think the new version sounds interesting and will bring new fun and discoveries, but I can see why.some people.would be put off.
I guess some people just need an excuse to whine? May as well just carry on playing V1 if its a problem, FFG haven't installed self destruct devices into it.
]
Lol. Just when 3-4 years of people arguing this point about WHFB/AoS was about to quiet down a bit.
Flinty wrote: As someone noted elsewhere, to move into 40k 8th edition you needed the rulebook, then the indexes, and then the codices. And even then some options for specific models.had been removed invalidating elements of individual model collections. The companies have different methods of disseminating rules, but in either system upgrading to a new version requires a lot of paper products at significant expense.
And as I noted, it's not the same.
You buy the rules and a book, and you're done. X-Wing you have to keep buying miniatures, sometimes ones you already have, to get more cards. That's never been an issue in 40K. The rules are separated from the pieces needed to play the game. With X-Wing the two are intrinsic, and now they've switched to another edition so all the cards you got are useless and you have to start again. Plus if you don't think there will be new things packaged only with existing miniatures (let alone new miniatures) then I have a bridge to sell you.
But from what I see all the upgrades will be available through the App, so all you really need to play your existing collection are the maneuver dials. Theoretically you need the base inlays but they can be proxied easily enough. If you then want to buy new shinies then that is a personal decision.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Much as I’m scornful for FFG’s ‘make it suck, make them pay more later’ business model, at least they’re doing the upgrade boxes, rather than making you wait for ship’s to be released.
IIRC, they've done that ever since Descent 2 was released - that had a conversion pack available with all the cards for all the heroes and monsters from 1st edition (and they subsequently did new versions of the miniatures and cards for those later on, but you didn't need to buy them). Mansions of Madness 2nd edition includes the conversion kit in the box (because there's significantly fewer bits of card required there, I suppose.
The Quick Builds thing appeals to me; that's how I've played my last few games. Give each player the choice of a 50-point squad of a pair or trio of ships with minimal upgrades, and have a big furball. If the app gives me access to all the upgrade card texts, then great. If not, then the game will still do what I want it to do, but I'm not necessarily the target audience.
I wonder if the dice and movement templates have changed? I don't really need another Core Set.
The downside, for me, is that they'll be re-releasing the same ships as before; hopefully they'll be quicker at it, or include more ships in a wave, or it's going to be hard on new players trying to take on the huge variety of 1st ed ships with only X-Wings and Y-Wings for a while.
I watched the video above (and normally I find "battle reports" too boring to watch), and I saw a lot that I liked overall with the updated game.
However, I'm not thrilled with the idea of buying $100 to $150 worth of cardboard to keep up. Hopefully they will offer a "just the rules"/essentials sort of package like they did with Runewars - I already have 11 ties and nearly as many X-Wings; not really interested in more. And I'd really like to keep my acrylic templates.
Flinty wrote: As someone noted elsewhere, to move into 40k 8th edition you needed the rulebook, then the indexes, and then the codices. And even then some options for specific models.had been removed invalidating elements of individual model collections. The companies have different methods of disseminating rules, but in either system upgrading to a new version requires a lot of paper products at significant expense.
And as I noted, it's not the same.
You buy the rules and a book, and you're done. X-Wing you have to keep buying miniatures, sometimes ones you already have, to get more cards. That's never been an issue in 40K. The rules are separated from the pieces needed to play the game. With X-Wing the two are intrinsic, and now they've switched to another edition so all the cards you got are useless and you have to start again. Plus if you don't think there will be new things packaged only with existing miniatures (let alone new miniatures) then I have a bridge to sell you.
No you don't have to buy ships just for the cards. Why on earth would any one do that? You proxy them using one of the many squad builders, if you need specific cards for a sanctioned event then you buy them separately (or borrow/trade them).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormonu wrote: I watched the video above (and normally I find "battle reports" too boring to watch), and I saw a lot that I liked overall with the updated game.
However, I'm not thrilled with the idea of buying $100 to $150 worth of cardboard to keep up. Hopefully they will offer a "just the rules"/essentials sort of package like they did with Runewars - I already have 11 ties and nearly as many X-Wings; not really interested in more. And I'd really like to keep my acrylic templates.
Think I am just going to buy the Scum stuff to start and trade what I don't need from that for what I do from other factions. I just hope someone will be selling the new damage deck separately. As for the templates I am just going to mark my Black Sun ones with marker as far as I can make out its just the end mark for the barrel roll that is vital.
Edit; Though the medium bases could be an issue to get hold of, its my understanding that they come with some sort of adaptor to fit large or small pegs. I presume that FFG will update their bases packs but not keen on buying a ton more surplus little and big ones.
Stormonu wrote: I watched the video above (and normally I find "battle reports" too boring to watch), and I saw a lot that I liked overall with the updated game.
However, I'm not thrilled with the idea of buying $100 to $150 worth of cardboard to keep up. Hopefully they will offer a "just the rules"/essentials sort of package like they did with Runewars - I already have 11 ties and nearly as many X-Wings; not really interested in more. And I'd really like to keep my acrylic templates.
If the dice and templates are unchanged, then all you will need, I think, will be the base inserts and dials - in the conversion kits - and rulebook - available online.
edit - forget that, I forgot about the damage cards. :(
This is a cash grab. You can tell from the redesigned dials. They went out of their way to make all old components obsolete, down to the plastic dial covers. If they wanted to fix the game, all that was needed was a polished book and a handful of fixed cards.
What’s the betting they’ll make good ships crap, then ‘spot their mistake’ with yet another, more expensive version?
I'd rather that way round than the GW version of dump out overpowered boswellox to push sales then nerf it to push sales of something else (eg sorry we nerf hammered your Wraithknight best buy these Fire Prisms to replace it)
Mildly optimistic, bit concerned regarding the app but if it breaks the LCG approach to upgrades that might be good
lord_blackfang wrote: This is a cash grab. You can tell from the redesigned dials. They went out of their way to make all old components obsolete, down to the plastic dial covers. If they wanted to fix the game, all that was needed was a polished book and a handful of fixed cards.
That's a load of nonsense. The plastic dial covers are being still the same (you picked pretty much the only component that is!) and the game needed a lot more of a fix than that. The FAQ is 26(?) pages long and they had run out of design spaces, fixes released have been loads of text on new cards (which people will complain about buying as a cash grab), turrets have been a massive problem since wave 3 etc. etc.
Right out of the gates the upgraded ships are coming the new cards:
"The T-65 X-Wing Expansion Pack includes a beautifully-painted T-65 X-wing miniature for you to add to your squadron, a maneuver dial, and all the ship and upgrade cards you need to fly this iconic starfighter into battle. We'll explore the T-65 X-wing's capabilities and contents of this expansion pack in much more detail in a future preview!
In addition, the T-65 X-Wing Expansion Pack contains a few entirely new cards that have never before appeared in the game's first edition. These new cards and associated punchboard are also included in the Rebel Alliance Conversion Kit for the benefit of veteran players!"
What’s the betting they’ll make good ships crap, then ‘spot their mistake’ with yet another, more expensive version?
I'd rather that way round than the GW version of dump out overpowered boswellox to push sales then nerf it to push sales of something else (eg sorry we nerf hammered your Wraithknight best buy these Fire Prisms to replace it)
Mildly optimistic, bit concerned regarding the app but if it breaks the LCG approach to upgrades that might be good
That’s only really a problem if someone picks only what are considered to be ‘the best’ units in search of cheap wins. The Wraithknight being nerfed doesn’t make it useless, just not as blindingly overpowered as it was. World of difference there.
FFG? I dropped out when I found the internet claims of it being well balanced we’re flat out wrong. I quickly grew tired of ‘the ship is a tenner, but to make it not suck, that’ll be £80 for this Epic Play ship you’ll use once in a blue moon’.
Just too mercenary in my eyes. Then there was the constant ‘but this new ship does it better!’ type nonsense. Or packaging highly desirable cards with hideous, Old EU ships. Like the moronic looking K-Wing. Seriously. Just look at the original design. It doesn’t look like it belong in Star Wars at all. And what’s with the extrernal missile racks! (Fault there is the original artist, not FFG).
Something that I don’t think people have really picked up on? New, ‘medium sized bases’. What’s the betting they’ll be dished out to existing ships, such as the aforementioned K-Wing and that ridiculous TIE Heavy Bomber? Because that’s another purchase you’ll need to make to keep your original collection up to date! And I suspect there’ll be sod all else in those new packs you actually want beyond said base, because FFG.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sure it is. GW rules you buy in a book and you're done. You don't have to buy the rules with miniatures or get 'upgrades' to replace all your useless cards.
Except when a new edition arrives every couple years and you have to buy a new core rulebook and new codex or three. Don't pretend that GW's rules updates are any cheaper than this one.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Sure it is. GW rules you buy in a book and you're done. You don't have to buy the rules with miniatures or get 'upgrades' to replace all your useless cards.
Except when a new edition arrives every couple years and you have to buy a new core rulebook and new codex or three. Don't pretend that GW's rules updates are any cheaper than this one.
True, but you never have to buy the same codex for Xth edition more than once because there were only enough words in that one book to apply to half your army
Peregrine wrote: Except when a new edition arrives every couple years and you have to buy a new core rulebook and new codex or three. Don't pretend that GW's rules updates are any cheaper than this one.
Firstly I never said they were cheaper, but more importantly you're still missing the point.
When GW does a new edition you buy a few new books. Done.
With this, you've got to buy all new cards, and a lot of those cards (even for things you already own) will only come with new miniatures. There are these expensive upgrade packs, but sooner or later you're going to need other cards that only come with miniatures. Meanwhile, all the cards you've already got are worth diddly, as they don't work the new game. It's not like an old Codex that you can still pick up for the fluff, artwork and minis.
Siygess wrote: True, but you never have to buy the same codex for Xth edition more than once because there were only enough words in that one book to apply to half your army
Only because the edition doesn't last long enough to make a second version of the codex before GW drops another edition and another cycle of buying new books.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Firstly I never said they were cheaper, but more importantly you're still missing the point.
If they aren't cheaper then what's your point? You're making a big deal about some abstract principle about buying upgrade cards when the actual financial cost is no worse.
and a lot of those cards (even for things you already own) will only come with new miniatures
Not true. The upgrades up front, including all of the replacements for stuff you already own, are in the conversion packs. The only reason you'd be forced to buy new miniatures is for new content, which isn't the same as the edition change requiring a new purchase.
Meanwhile, all the cards you've already got are worth diddly, as they don't work the new game.
So what? Those cards were worthless already. Remember, in X-Wing the only purpose for the cards is a proof of purchase at FFG's official events. If you're just playing for fun you don't need any of the cards. The only thing you need to buy from 2.0 is the cardboard base inserts, which are really part of the ship model and not a rules component.
It's not like an old Codex that you can still pick up for the fluff, artwork and minis.
As long as you're talking about a 5th edition codex or earlier. Anything from a more recent edition is trash as soon as a new edition hits, the fluff and art are just stripped down versions of what you used to get in the older codices and have no more value than old X-Wing cards.
Peregrine wrote: Except when a new edition arrives every couple years and you have to buy a new core rulebook and new codex or three. Don't pretend that GW's rules updates are any cheaper than this one.
Firstly I never said they were cheaper, but more importantly you're still missing the point.
With this, you've got to buy all new cards, and a lot of those cards (even for things you already own) will only come with new miniatures. There are these expensive upgrade packs, but sooner or later you're going to need other cards that only come with miniatures. Meanwhile, all the cards you've already got are worth diddly, as they don't work the new game. It's not like an old Codex that you can still pick up for the fluff, artwork and minis.
The conversion packs contain replacements for all the cards for each faction. What's more, they also contain copies of the cards for the ships that will be released for that faction in wave 1 so you don't need to buy the TIE Advanced or Y-Wing expansion if you get the relevant conversion kit. Yes, for future cards after the initial wave you'll need to buy new miniatures but that's no different from how things are now.
I feel like FFG can't win here. There have been an increasing number of calls for a 2nd edition and a lot of complaints about the state of the game at the moment. Then FFG announce a 2nd edition and people are shocked it might cost money to buy into it. No other game system I can think of has had an edition change that hasn't required spending money to transition between editions. Given the contents of the conversion packs I think FFG have taken a reasonable approach to this. It's really no different to the change from 7th-8th edition 40k.
Slipspace wrote: . No other game system I can think of has had an edition change that hasn't required spending money to transition between editions.
Age of Sigmar.
And there was A LOT of whining that 40K 8th didn't provide at least the Index books for free online. So if whining was justified there, it is here, doubly so because each 25 Dollar Index covered 100 times as many miniatures as exist in X-Wing in its entirety and one index gives you rule for Space Marines, irrespective of whether you have just 5 or 50.000. The same is not true for conversions for, say, TIE-Fighters here, where conversion costs to the new edition perversely increase with the size of your collection and how much money you spend on the game previously.
Slipspace wrote: . No other game system I can think of has had an edition change that hasn't required spending money to transition between editions.
Age of Sigmar.
And there was A LOT of whining that 40K 8th didn't provide at least the Index books for free online. So if whining was justified there, it is here, doubly so because each 25 Dollar Index covered 100 times as many miniatures as exist in X-Wing in its entirety and one index gives you rule for Space Marines, irrespective of whether you have just 5 or 50.000. The same is not true for conversions for, say, TIE-Fighters here, where conversion costs to the new edition perversely increase with the size of your collection and how much money you spend on the game previously.
Of course with AoS you didn't even get game. To get that took good year and...guess what? Book you needed to buy. And then you still need other book(s) as well.
Zach wrote: LOL my kid and I picked a bad time to start playing and buying a lot of Xwing stuff the past few months.
I see our Silencers will have to wait.
On the flip side Zach, it might be the perfect time if people are going to be dumping stuff on ebay. V1 is still playable and I doubt your daughter is a hardcore tourney player. Just don't by over the amounts in the conversion sets...
Depending how this goes down I'm cautiously optimistic. I have a huge X-Wing collection and the endless FAQs were taking the game away from what I wanted. As long as whatever is in the upgrade kits is boxed with the new ships I can see myself being happy. Plus if the proposed app has all the rules and cards then I feel that's a good step forward.
Slipspace wrote: . No other game system I can think of has had an edition change that hasn't required spending money to transition between editions.
Age of Sigmar.
Of course with AoS you didn't even get game. To get that took good year and...guess what? Book you needed to buy. And then you still need other book(s) as well.
It's not a game unless it has an officially available point system? That's a bit misleading, don't you think? Moving goalposts is an internet tradition, but come on...
With X-Wing, it requires physical components. These must be printed, collected, distributed, warehoused, shipped, and sold. It is not free for FFG, so it won't be free for the users either. It is impossible for FFG to meet the needs of every collection out there with a single product. It's tough, but it is understandable. Generally speaking, a sheet of cardboard is worth about $10 to FFG (based on their other products), and these upgrade kits seem to have at least 5 of them, so the price may even be a little bit less than they would normally charge for other products.
455_PWR wrote: Hmmm... reminds me of mage knight and it's upgrade to 2.0. Upgrade was better but cost the game everything. This won't be as drastic though.
I've only been following miniature games for a few years, but every version change I've seen has followed basically the same process:
1) There's a cost associated with moving to this new system? Spend money? In my hobby? feth that, I'm out.
2) I've been playing game X forever and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm sticking with the last version.
3) Hey guys who are wavering, might I suggest this other (similar/cheaper/better) game that I like better which I'm hoping to steal some players for?
4) Oh my gosh, they changed this exceedingly minor thing and I'm so upset that I'm going to boycott all of this company's products forever.
5) New version comes out. There's growing pains, but it is objectively an improvement.
6) It's taking too long to build up the new edition. The old edition has 10 years of models, but this new one only releases a ton of stuff every couple months. Bah. I'll wait until it is all out.
7) I like it but I like things the previous version did too, so I'm going to create my own amalgamated version, which will be mediocre at best - but I will bring it up in EVERY SINGLE THREAD.
8) New version is fine. People like it. It sells well. It is largely an improvement to the health of the game and will help the game last another 10 years through continued support.
9) Grumble, grumble, it's all been downhill since Rogue Trader.
Something that I don’t think people have really picked up on? New, ‘medium sized bases’. What’s the betting they’ll be dished out to existing ships, such as the aforementioned K-Wing and that ridiculous TIE Heavy Bomber? Because that’s another purchase you’ll need to make to keep your original collection up to date! And I suspect there’ll be sod all else in those new packs you actually want beyond said base, because FFG.
I thought the conversion pack comes with medium bases and all the other relevant kit for the Punisher.
ingtaer wrote: Well the upgrade boxes per faction are going to be $50, the new core set is $40 (both USD). They contain everything you need to upgrade from V1 to V2, including all the cards. That seems pretty comparable to GW.
Not everything, it seems like they carefully selected which ones people would have more of and ensured that they would have less to be able to convert over. Seriously who decided people used three or more Decimators is my question..
Some one who really, really likes Decimators. It would have made sense for them to do what would have been 100pts of each ship in V1. I hope the quantities they have put forward are just estimates (or the infamous FFG article error).
Pretty surprising, i thought a new edition might roll out in a year or so at least.
The changes they made are great for the long term health of the game. No points values printed on the cards, and forcing people to create their competitive lists at a single source... brilliant.
This is one of the tools they need to balance the game through crowd-sourcing. If they see that people are exclusively favoring one upgrade/ship over another, they can just turn up the dial on the cost.
I'm one of those people that has an embarassingly large xwing collection. Not looking forward to upgrading all those ships and shelling out for that. But giving it a second thought, hmm, how often do i play with those ships? well they sit on the shelf for an embarassingly long time. If you have more than 4+ of any kind of ship, of every faction, beside TIE fighters the chances are you are not using them often. If you are using them, it is in a casual setting. In a casual setting, you can print stuff out at home and wing it with a lot of the components, probably just make something on the printer and glue it to the top of your cardboard, and you're good to go.
It remains to be seen, but I am so much more happier that my embarassingly large collection is now likely to be useful in the competitive game again. With all the content getting wiped and giving everything a playing field, with plenty of mechanics baked in to keep the game balanced in the future. Of course, that requires some following up, but i think we've maybe got a year or two after release before serious power creep is a thing again.
When xwing 1.0 came out, it was revolutionary, its why it was successful and now it seems 2.0 is ahead of the curve. I'm just hoping they're able to keep all the ships relevant in the game using the new points system.
Meade wrote: Pretty surprising, i thought a new edition might roll out in a year or so at least.
The changes they made are great for the long term health of the game. No points values printed on the cards, and forcing people to create their competitive lists at a single source... brilliant.
This is one of the tools they need to balance the game through crowd-sourcing. If they see that people are exclusively favoring one upgrade/ship over another, they can just turn up the dial on the cost.
I'm one of those people that has an embarassingly large xwing collection. Not looking forward to upgrading all those ships and shelling out for that. But giving it a second thought, hmm, how often do i play with those ships? well they sit on the shelf for an embarassingly long time. If you have more than 4+ of any kind of ship, of every faction, beside TIE fighters the chances are you are not using them often. If you are using them, it is in a casual setting. In a casual setting, you can print stuff out at home and wing it with a lot of the components, probably just make something on the printer and glue it to the top of your cardboard, and you're good to go.
It remains to be seen, but I am so much more happier that my embarassingly large collection is now likely to be useful in the competitive game again. With all the content getting wiped and giving everything a playing field, with plenty of mechanics baked in to keep the game balanced in the future. Of course, that requires some following up, but i think we've maybe got a year or two after release before serious power creep is a thing again.
When xwing 1.0 came out, it was revolutionary, its why it was successful and now it seems 2.0 is ahead of the curve. I'm just hoping they're able to keep all the ships relevant in the game using the new points system.
Honestly, I'm definitely looking to cut some of my early excess and simultaneously help other people get into the game. I probably own 2 Rebel conversion kits worth of X/Y/B wings, but do I really need 4 of each of those ships in a game that routinely only sees 3 models in a squad period? All the early stuff I have tons of, but the later stuff I only have 1 generally because the game had grown to where duplicates became unnecessary. Seems like a good chance to sell that second conversion kits worth of stuff to someone looking to start playing.
I was really excited thinking cards would no longer be needed, if you could just use the app. But it sounds like it's just for list building, and you'll still have to buy multiples of ships just to get cards?
That's a deal breaker for me if so. I don't mind buying a ship, but the need to get multiples kills the game for me...
They should go totally digital with the cards and I'd jump right back in!
Zach wrote: LOL my kid and I picked a bad time to start playing and buying a lot of Xwing stuff the past few months.
I see our Silencers will have to wait.
On the flip side Zach, it might be the perfect time if people are going to be dumping stuff on ebay. V1 is still playable and I doubt your daughter is a hardcore tourney player. Just don't by over the amounts in the conversion sets...
Its not the worst thing to have happen. One thing Im not in the know about, is that we were getting ready to start playing Armada as well since the new house will have a dedicated game room. I wonder if Armada is up for a 2.0-ing soon.
FrothingMuppet wrote: Right out of the gates the upgraded ships are coming the new cards:
Yeah, of course they would be, why wouldn't they? I even pointed out 3 new pilots for the TIE earlier in the thread; Gideon Hask, Del Meeko and Iden Versio.
Gimgamgoo wrote: I've only skim read through most of the stuff but not seen anything about the dice?
Are the dice the same or do we need a load of new dice too?
I hadn't thought of that. Lets just say that I own six lambda shuttles (just for arguments sake). They are made good in the new edition.. I can pair one with an upgrade kit and sell it off for ten bucks to Johnny the new guy at the club who keeps on complaining everything is too expensive.
I don't see why they'd change the dice. They tweaked the balance of attack/defense slightly just by changing actions and the dice look identical in their trailer video.
Looks good so far. Despite the annoyance of needing to buy new cardboard and cards, this was absolutely 100% necessary to make the game approachable to new players again.
The new power level system they have looks neat for casual players like myself as well. I think if GW did something similar it would make PL make more sense in 40k.
455_PWR wrote: Hmmm... reminds me of mage knight and it's upgrade to 2.0. Upgrade was better but cost the game everything. This won't be as drastic though.
I've only been following miniature games for a few years, but every version change I've seen has followed basically the same process:
1) There's a cost associated with moving to this new system? Spend money? In my hobby? feth that, I'm out.
2) I've been playing game X forever and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm sticking with the last version.
3) Hey guys who are wavering, might I suggest this other (similar/cheaper/better) game that I like better which I'm hoping to steal some players for?
4) Oh my gosh, they changed this exceedingly minor thing and I'm so upset that I'm going to boycott all of this company's products forever.
5) New version comes out. There's growing pains, but it is objectively an improvement.
6) It's taking too long to build up the new edition. The old edition has 10 years of models, but this new one only releases a ton of stuff every couple months. Bah. I'll wait until it is all out.
7) I like it but I like things the previous version did too, so I'm going to create my own amalgamated version, which will be mediocre at best - but I will bring it up in EVERY SINGLE THREAD.
8) New version is fine. People like it. It sells well. It is largely an improvement to the health of the game and will help the game last another 10 years through continued support.
9) Grumble, grumble, it's all been downhill since Rogue Trader.
3 – Alpha-class Star Wing
3 – Inquisitor’s TIE
2 – Lambda-class Shuttle
2 – TIE Advanced
3 – TIE Aggressor
3 – TIE Bomber
2 – TIE Defender
4 – TIE Fighter
3 – TIE Interceptor
2 – TIE Phantom
2 – TIE Punisher
3 – TIE Striker
2 – VT-49 Decimator
Man... FFG could earn a lot of good-will (but probably won't) if they allow upgrade cards to not require a physical presence at organized play levels. If I could buy one/two of a given release, and not find myself wishing I had one more upgrade card of "x", I would be a lot less hard on them.
Sunny Side Up wrote: The same is not true for conversions for, say, TIE-Fighters here, where conversion costs to the new edition perversely increase with the size of your collection and how much money you spend on the game previously.
This is what's really bugging me about it, it just feels like a huge tax depending on the size of your collection and it's certainly a huge middle finger if you have to buy two sets because you own say 4 x-wings but don't need the rest of the second set. The thing that people seem to be glossing over about GW's updates is that you aren't taxed based on the size of your army, you buy the codex/index and you're set, it doesn't matter whether you have 10 models or 100 models, yes if you own more than one army then you'll have to buy more than one codex but my point is that you don't have to buy more than one codex per army based on the size of your army.
FFG held another briefing and someone on the FFG forum collected the info, thought I would post it here as well
(spoilered for size)
Spoiler:
Calculate was confirmed today to be a droid based action. It is a weaker focus, only can change 1 focus result to a hit or evade, but there will likely be ways to get multiples of them through abilities and upgrades.
Force charges regenerate 1 at the end phase.
Vader's ability is that he can use a force charge to perform another action, and can keep doing this so long as he has force charges. So he could at most perform 4 actions a turn if you want him to.
Good tokens (green and blue) are beneficial, bad tokens (red and orange) are harmful. Blue and Red tokens (Ex. Cloak and Stress) stay on the ship through the rounds until gotten rid of while Green and Orange tokens (Ex. Focus/Evade and Weapons Disabled) are removed at the end of the round. Noted that Round tokens are removed at the end of the round.
Wave 2 and beyond will include new upgrades and cards but some of the stuff in the conversion packs will be in them. BUT, there will be upgrade sets for the rereleased ships for existing players so you don't need to buy the new ship. They haven't come out with any details but they mentioned the possibility to have stuff packed together for the wave in a conversion pack/new ship cards + token pack.
They are readdressing how epic works in 2.0, they want to give it the same amount of love and refinement they have what they have for standard. Mentioned possibly reworking energy or how it works to make it feel more right or more refined. I'd guess we won't be seeing epic 2.0 for a year or more while they do that.
Quick Build Cards will only include upgrades and cards from the expansion they come in and the core set.
Seen in the TC video the core set will come with a template to hold your ship's space for when another ship might go through past them or otherwise be difficult do with the ship there.
Afterburner - After you fully execute (Don't bump) a maneuver speed 3 to 5 you can spend a charge to perform a Boost action even while stressed.
Turrets and Cannons get range bonuses while ordnance doesn't.
Can still use old acrylic templates, but will likely need a speed 1 straight for the barrel rolls. Acrylic tokens are still allowed (so long as same color as new tokens though mostly for ease for new players) Range Rulers are the same too.
Talon Rolls like barrel rolls use the line on the template for the placement of the ship.
NEED A NEW CORE SET. Pilots in the core set don't come in the conversation set, the new damage deck is needed, and the X-Wing in the Core Set is the one seen in the preview, a Red Five - Luke's X-wing.
Asked about different dice, they thought to change it but they wanted to keep the game as simple/steamlined as possible. One where children can learn how to play easily.
No more action bombs/mines.
Medium Base uses large pegs, there are conversion pegs for the smaller ships to be placed on them. Arc-170s confirmed to be Medium ships.
Resistance and First Order Conversion sets will cost less and have more conversions for the ships that are in the faction.
For linked actions, if you cannot perform the linked action you don't get the stress action. Example being the Focus into a Boost and you can't perform the Boost you do the focus action but don't get the stress token. Don't have to say you are doing linked actions, just if you can link into something you get to go into it if you want to.
Evade Tokens convert one die to an evade rather than adding an evade result.
App is free, thought that was pretty obvious but still.
No plan to redo the world champ cards but some ideas from them might be used later on.
Falcon got a significant rework. New mobile double arc like most turrets. But is cheaper, and gotten some things that most large ships won't have access to. It has the Boost action. Dial changed, swapped 1 turns for 3 turns but has more blue maneuvers. Pilot abilities reworked. Han (I think they mentioned involving obstacles) and Lando buffed and Chewie nerfed a little so he can take on crits.
Boost action can't be added to ships as a mod anymore.
Subtitles are there to separate characters. IE Fen Rau for Rebels vs Scum. This allows them to give them new pilot abilities. Garven mentioned to be a ARC-170 pilot. And the possibility to add a new Vader down the line.
Bullseye Arc are only there for abilities and don't have an ability of themself.
Ships that needed help were reworked, ones that were doing fine were mostly fine.
Vader can force charge to perform a different action even if he fails his first action.
New damage deck is the only damage deck for 2.0, old ones can't be used.
Half points on all ships in tournament play, app will show the half points on the list as a reminder.
Obstacles, or at least the asteroids from 1.0 are perfectly fine for 2.0.
Proton Bomb is said to be similar to classic Seismic charge but a Critical damage instead of a normal damage. Bombs and Mines all do automatic damage.
Cloaking pretty much the same as before (+2 Evade, can't attack), decloaking happens during the system phase same as when bombs are dropped.
Deploying ships (Phantom) done during the system phase.
Tie Interceptor is the closest ship to PTL ships in the game, it will have a after you perform an action you can either boost or barrel roll. Can't focus into evade. Fel costs a whole bunch more than base interceptor.
Only a few dials stayed the same. Lambda and Tie fighter dials are the same. Some dials got worse.
Factions will get the same upgrades in the conversion sets, aside from unique ones like named characters and slots that aren't supported by that faction like Astromechs and Illicit Slots.
Won't resculpt most craft, ones they feel need updating will be done or ones that can be given moving mechanics might be updated too.
Core Set comes with 3 Asteroids and 3 Debris Fields.
B-Wings have T-rolls and their dials have been reworked.
YV-666 Party bus is still a thing, but 4-LOM and Zuckuss have been reworked, given charges and limits. YV-666 can reinforce.
Generic named characters "Blue Ace" and the like now have names for Resistance and First Order.
Certain paint schemes will not be the same in reprints, mostly aces stuff it seems.
Scurg isn't a Rebel option anymore. Already said elsewhere but Firespray will no longer be an Imperial option. Scum will likely become the largest faction in the game due to all the options.
Either 3 IG-88s bareboned or 2 IG-88s with a friend can fit into a list.
Resistance will be predominately 2 - 3 ship lists while First Order will likely fly elite smaller swarms.
Reinforce, uses the dashes on the side of the ship. Reduces the total damage by one to a minimum to one.
A-Wings, like the Interceptor can link into a red boost but not link to a barrel roll. They have a native barrel roll. Same stats for their attack, evade, hull, and shields.
TLT, isn't in 2.0.
E-wing said to have some good linked actions, with Corran Horn still likely there.
(Damage card) Damaged Power Regulator - Before you engage you gain an ion token.
Ion tokens make it so the only action you can take is a Focus action, meaning that Droids get hit harder by ion tokens.
R5 astromechs deal with damage cards, discarding damage cards.
Most ships with lots of shields have their shield count reduced and were given more hull.
If a ship is destroyed in the engagement phase it isn't removed until after that initiative has gone. So say your 3 Initiative ship is destroyed by a 3 Initiative ship then you can still attack with it.
Mines can't be reloaded. Reload action reloads one ordnance upgrade rather than everything. Reload only recovers 1 charge for the ordnance you choose.
Sense - Force Ability, lets you see a maneuver dial at range 1, but if you use a force charge can look up to range 3.
Crew with a Force Ranking adds it to the ship flying it, so ships that are Force Sensitive get 1, while FS pilots can increase their value allowing it to refresh at the end of the round.
Some kind of Battle of Yavin bit has been talked about, be it just a classic format for a tournament or the like.
No more Harpoon missiles.
K2S0 hinted at as a pilot.
Total number of attack dice reduced for attack abilities. Some Tie Fighter abilities add one (2 to 3 dice), but crazy ones adding extra dice now add rerolls or the like.
HWK has a primary weapon value.
Jam strips a green token or when you next get a green token you lose it. If you have multiple tokens the person who jams your ship gets to choose which is discarded.
180 degree arcs are still in the game.
Numbers for the ships in the conversion set are based around the number of ships you can run (I assume at best pilots) for standard points. Conversion sets likely taking into account the X-Wing and Tie Fighters that come with the Core Set since you have to buy that for the new damage deck. So feel free to start theory crafting max numbers for standard games.
Barrel roll is to the front, middle or back of the ship using it. Dashes on the side of the 1 straight for Medium and Large ships to use when barrel rolling.
Hue changed slightly for the ship cards to help color blind people distinguish the difference between red and green.
As a small note from an X-Wing unboxing, R2 Astromech doesn't have a restriction while R4 Astromech are limited to small ships. Also, R2 Astromech has R2-D2's ability but limited to 2 charges instead of 3, while R4 Astromech makes your 1-2 basic (turn, bank, straight) maneuvers easier.
Not sure if I mentioned it before, but not all ships will get new sculpts, depends how they feel about it. Possible new paint jobs for existing ships.
Tie Advanced V1s, there is a generic Inquisitor that has a Force Point. Possibility that there might be other generic pilots with Force Points. But generally no upgrades that add Force Points to ships aside from crew.
Points will always be adjusted instead of text adjustments moving forward with pilots, upgrades and the like. They want to keep the text on the cards the same if at all possible.
Fel's ability has been changed. He gets his focus token by getting you in his bullseye arc.
R5 Astromech lets you spend a charge to repair (flip) a crit, or spend an action and charge to remove a (facedown?) damage. 2 Charges.
Expert Handling turns your Red Barrel Rolls actions white.
Ions seems to be a 1 blue straight. So prevents the stress + ion lock on a ship.
Arval can now boost into another ship/bump it and still attack now.
Tie Silencer is getting a resculpt because it was too big and will stay on a small base.
Firespray has a slightly different paint job (brighter green) but same sculpt.
Lambda has new actions, including a Coordinate action.
Y-Wing new sculpt and paint, X-Wing slightly new sculpt with opening/closing S-foils. Core Set is painted up as Red Five, Expansion is painted up as a Red Squadron ship.
Asteroid and Debris obstacles all still work the same as before.
2 new pilots for the Firespray, in the conversion kit.
2 New Y-Wing pilots in the conversion kit, Norra Wexly and one who starts with an E (I think the pilot who replaced Keyan as the survivor at Yavin).
6 languages at launch.
Zach wrote: LOL my kid and I picked a bad time to start playing and buying a lot of Xwing stuff the past few months.
I see our Silencers will have to wait.
On the flip side Zach, it might be the perfect time if people are going to be dumping stuff on ebay. V1 is still playable and I doubt your daughter is a hardcore tourney player. Just don't by over the amounts in the conversion sets...
Its not the worst thing to have happen. One thing Im not in the know about, is that we were getting ready to start playing Armada as well since the new house will have a dedicated game room. I wonder if Armada is up for a 2.0-ing soon.
Probably not- Armada has only had half as many waves, which have been generally smaller.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Man... FFG could earn a lot of good-will (but probably won't) if they allow upgrade cards to not require a physical presence at organized play levels. If I could buy one/two of a given release, and not find myself wishing I had one more upgrade card of "x", I would be a lot less hard on them.
Exactly =/. I don't know if the extra sales they get from hardcore players buying multiples offsets the number of us who would've kept buying singles, but didn't because of this...
clively wrote: Now would be the best time for GW to release an updated battlefleet gothic.
I’d rather put $200 into a new game then have to buy $150 worth of cardboard.
This is me as well, actually a bit worse as i have all existing factions, and for my imps a single box wouldn't really cover it, but would be close. So im at $190 which kinda blows and makes me strongly consider just cutting things off as they are which i'm not super happy about but the idea of dropping that much on x-wing just to pretty much stay in isnt sitting so well with me. am i right in thinking we need a new core box mainly just for the damage deck?
clively wrote: Now would be the best time for GW to release an updated battlefleet gothic.
I’d rather put $200 into a new game then have to buy $150 worth of cardboard.
This is me as well, actually a bit worse as i have all existing factions, and for my imps a single box wouldn't really cover it, but would be close. So im at $190 which kinda blows and makes me strongly consider just cutting things off as they are which i'm not super happy about but the idea of dropping that much on x-wing just to pretty much stay in isnt sitting so well with me. am i right in thinking we need a new core box mainly just for the damage deck?
According to the team covenant interview. EVERYONE requires the new core box for the damage deck, the new 1 straight template, and the fact pilots and upgrades in the core box are NOT in the conversion box. So that's an extra $50. I actually have 2-4 of most ships and 8 tie/ln and 4 t65 xwing and I stopped buying after 9th wave and I still see no reason to buy new obscure ships few people recognize.
Right now I am looking at 2 imperial boxes, 2 rebel boxes, 1 box of scum and that covers all my ships, I need the core box apparently as well. This is $300 just for ships I already own and im stuck with 2 extra tie/ln I cant use because the game caps ships at 8 models.
This does not include the future conversion boxes for first order or empire. To be fair all I have of this faction so far is 2 t-70 xwings and 3 TIE/FO. So maybe I can find someone I can trade these ships to for some models I can actually use from the original trilogy. It is a shame because ffg forced us to buy this new starter for the then required damage deck and then about faced and made that damage deck not required.
I also need to buy a future epic conversion set because I do like these narrative battles. Lets hope they don't take 1-2 years to do this like it sounded like in the interview.
Lets hope the app is flawless too because if that thing crashes constantly and is bug filled the entire game is screwed since it centers around that app. And the reference card power level system is very predefined setups at best this would be great for some type of narrative game or epic game hwoever FFG has completely ignored this aspect of the game on release to focus on competitive organized play. Id likely be buying most of what I need regardless probably off some online 20% retailer but this is a really expensive update and im sure a lot fo people will not be spending the 100-300 they need to update their ships. FFG screwed up by not including all the core set required gear in the conversion boxes (aka damage deck and 1 straight) and sold all these conversion kits closer to cost then trying to make a profit.
clively wrote: Now would be the best time for GW to release an updated battlefleet gothic.
I’d rather put $200 into a new game then have to buy $150 worth of cardboard.
If GW would do it without the drip-feed garbage they've done with BB and Necromunda, I would be right there with you.
However, and I say this as a recent GW returnee, their specialist games release approach feels almost designed to tick people off.
On topic with the 2.0 release, our casual group has one player who owns enough for us all to play.
He's our X-Wing guy. I doubt very much we'll be buying into the new edition.
Sticking with the current one seems like the way we'll probably be headed.
According to the team covenant interview. EVERYONE requires the new core box for the damage deck, the new 1 straight template, and the fact pilots and upgrades in the core box are NOT in the conversion box. So that's an extra $50.
The core box is still $39.95 USD.
But, yeah, they should have put the damage deck and other new bits in the conversion boxes.
But if they had done that then everyone who buys more than one box would complain that they were being ripped off for having to buy multiple templates/damage decks...
Not sure if it has been posted here but for anyone who is needing a couple of damage decks if you preorder the core from FFG then you get a second deck that it is the same size as the other new cards (and with some sweet X-Wing technical art.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/upgrade-your-damage-deck/
This offer is also being made to those who preorder from FFG or from participating stores, but I have not seen any info if that includes international.
Nother little bit of fun info, FFG are remaking the Silencer mould because the current model is too big.
ingtaer wrote: But if they had done that then everyone who buys more than one box would complain that they were being ripped off for having to buy multiple templates/damage decks...
Not sure if it has been posted here but for anyone who is needing a couple of damage decks if you preorder the core from FFG then you get a second deck that it is the same size as the other new cards (and with some sweet X-Wing technical art.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/upgrade-your-damage-deck/
This offer is also being made to those who preorder from FFG or from participating stores, but I have not seen any info if that includes international.
Nother little bit of fun info, FFG are remaking the Silencer mould because the current model is too big.
A 1 straight and damage deck is hardly an issue especially since most people need 2 damage decks and 1 straight templates. It’s a money grab plain ad simple. If it wasn’t then ffg would have made any preorder get the free damage deck so people using the conversion would have less of a reason to buy the core. Nope instead you need to preorder the core set for the promo damage deck. I’m still
Going to upgrade my set though becuase this update is a closed and completely balanced system on day 1. I can quit buying and have everything I need to play with friends.
ingtaer wrote: But if they had done that then everyone who buys more than one box would complain that they were being ripped off for having to buy multiple templates/damage decks...
Not sure if it has been posted here but for anyone who is needing a couple of damage decks if you preorder the core from FFG then you get a second deck that it is the same size as the other new cards (and with some sweet X-Wing technical art.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/upgrade-your-damage-deck/
This offer is also being made to those who preorder from FFG or from participating stores, but I have not seen any info if that includes international.
Nother little bit of fun info, FFG are remaking the Silencer mould because the current model is too big.
My local store asked their distributor and were told they were able to be on of the participating stores getting the pre-order bonus, though the details still need to be finalised.
So it would seem FFG do want this to be an international thing and not North America only.
ingtaer wrote: But if they had done that then everyone who buys more than one box would complain that they were being ripped off for having to buy multiple templates/damage decks...
Not sure if it has been posted here but for anyone who is needing a couple of damage decks if you preorder the core from FFG then you get a second deck that it is the same size as the other new cards (and with some sweet X-Wing technical art.
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2018/5/1/upgrade-your-damage-deck/
This offer is also being made to those who preorder from FFG or from participating stores, but I have not seen any info if that includes international.
Nother little bit of fun info, FFG are remaking the Silencer mould because the current model is too big.
My local store asked their distributor and were told they were able to be on of the participating stores getting the pre-order bonus, though the details still need to be finalised.
So it would seem FFG do want this to be an international thing and not North America only.
That is really good to hear.
Another thing of interest to people, all of the wave 1 expansion cards are included in the conversion sets (maybe wave 2 as well put its unclear). After that as FFG rerelease ships the cards/punch will be included in separate packs done per faction and there will not be any cross faction stuff included.
Right now I am looking at 2 imperial boxes, 2 rebel boxes, 1 box of scum and that covers all my ships, I need the core box apparently as well. This is $300 just for ships I already own and im stuck with 2 extra tie/ln I cant use because the game caps ships at 8 models.
No, you are looking at $70 bucks tops. Less if you are thrifty and have a an xwing community around you. My god man, don't go out and spend $300. Just buy the conversion set of the faction you want to play... you will have more than enough ships to play with. You can probably find the parts you need from the core set elsewhere (damage deck, other few random things) which would probably bring the cost down to $50. These things will be parted out on ebay and on forums. Have you tried calculating the actual MSRP cost of the ships you own?
Not only that, it's not $$ to 'keep on playing with the ships you own', it's closer to a new game. It's not an old GW style update where they just rejigger a few rules, throw up an $80 rulebook but keep the same broken points costs. They've altered the gameplay... it's like they've gone down a list and catered to every wish of the community (well, besides that people always want something for nothing). Just get one conversion set, play the game and if you actually enjoy it, buy into another faction, or not. At that point it will probably seem like a bargain.
-Living ruleset with constantly adjusted points costs
-All turrets are mobile firing arcs/ range bonuses
-Pilot skill nerfed
-Red dice rerfed
-Medium size bases
-Rules Bloat nerfed
etc, etc. These are things people have been complaining about for awhile. They're are not perfect and we all know that, but now that they have the app controlling points costs they at least have the tools to create a more balanced game than anything really that we see out there in the world of miniatures games. It is so much easier to turn a dial on an app than to fix with an faq, or a product that has to go through a whole production cycle.
Right now I am looking at 2 imperial boxes, 2 rebel boxes, 1 box of scum and that covers all my ships, I need the core box apparently as well. This is $300 just for ships I already own and im stuck with 2 extra tie/ln I cant use because the game caps ships at 8 models.
No, you are looking at $70 bucks tops. Less if you are thrifty and have a an xwing community around you. My god man, don't go out and spend $300. Just buy the conversion set of the faction you want to play... you will have more than enough ships to play with. You can probably find the parts you need from the core set elsewhere (damage deck, other few random things) which would probably bring the cost down to $50. These things will be parted out on ebay and on forums. Have you tried calculating the actual MSRP cost of the ships you own?
Not only that, it's not $$ to 'keep on playing with the ships you own', it's closer to a new game. It's not an old GW style update where they just rejigger a few rules, throw up an $80 rulebook but keep the same broken points costs. They've altered the gameplay... it's like they've gone down a list and catered to every wish of the community (well, besides that people always want something for nothing). Just get one conversion set, play the game and if you actually enjoy it, buy into another faction, or not. At that point it will probably seem like a bargain.
-Living ruleset with constantly adjusted points costs
-All turrets are mobile firing arcs/ range bonuses
-Pilot skill nerfed
-Red dice rerfed
-Medium size bases
-Rules Bloat nerfed
etc, etc. These are things people have been complaining about for awhile. They're are not perfect and we all know that, but now that they have the app controlling points costs they at least have the tools to create a more balanced game than anything really that we see out there in the world of miniatures games. It is so much easier to turn a dial on an app than to fix with an faq, or a product that has to go through a whole production cycle.
Not if you want to be competitive. The cards are more important than the ships in this game. You will need cards from the other faction to make your crappy ships not suck. The only saving grace here would be if they allow you to not have a physical card and use the app for sanctioned play. So far, there has been no mention of it.
soooooo my 5 sets of FFG dice are obsolete now to? This is the problem with the FFG way of doing games, with special dice and 5 million cards tokens a chits, in for GW books are bad enough but it limited to books, FFG's way you have to buy almost everything again. still cheaper than starting from scratch but if i were really to convert over everything i have (some of which we wont even be able to do day one i guess) i definitely could just start from scratch again in another game and have a pretty serious chunk to do it.
knighthaunter wrote: soooooo my 5 sets of FFG dice are obsolete now to? This is the problem with the FFG way of doing games, with special dice and 5 million cards tokens a chits, in for GW books are bad enough but it limited to books, FFG's way you have to buy almost everything again. still cheaper than starting from scratch but if i were really to convert over everything i have (some of which we wont even be able to do day one i guess) i definitely could just start from scratch again in another game and have a pretty serious chunk to do it.
The dice aren't changing at all - the only difference is that they'll be fewer effects that add additional dice.
Right now I am looking at 2 imperial boxes, 2 rebel boxes, 1 box of scum and that covers all my ships, I need the core box apparently as well. This is $300 just for ships I already own and im stuck with 2 extra tie/ln I cant use because the game caps ships at 8 models.
No, you are looking at $70 bucks tops.
Not if you want to be competitive. The cards are more important than the ships in this game. You will need cards from the other faction to make your crappy ships not suck. The only saving grace here would be if they allow you to not have a physical card and use the app for sanctioned play. So far, there has been no mention of it.
You won't need cards from other factions and won't even be able to use them. They said in the Team Covenant video that cards are faction specific so you'll only need the upgrade sets of the factions you actually play. That said, Meade's $70 "estimate" is absolutely bonkers. There are some posts in this thread with the number of dials included for each ship and that will generally tell you how many you have to buy based on how many ships you have. I myself bought 2 of every ship from the first half dozen or so waves except for TIE fighters and X-wings (have four each of those). From the posted lists, I guess I'll not be able to use my extra X-wings as iirc the lists posted here only have two dials for those. What rubs me the wrong way a bit is that they didn't include the core components in with the conversion set making it effectively a starter without the minis but with all the extra dials. $50 per faction as an upgrade cost per faction is reasonable IMO but adding the core to that pushes it over the line. It's not as bad as it could be though so I'll give them credit for that although I think that they'd decimate the community overnight if they tried requiring everyone to rebuy every fighter at full cost.
Price annoys me, but my real concern is the proliferation of actions. I really think this edition’s bane is going to be the number of actions you can stack on some ships. I’m expecting it will become the #1 problem of the new game.
Stormonu wrote: Price annoys me, but my real concern is the proliferation of actions. I really think this edition’s bane is going to be the number of actions you can stack on some ships. I’m expecting it will become the #1 problem of the new game.
Huh? The devs have said the exact opposite is happening. Multiple actions, and especially multiple mods, will be very difficult to come by. Similarly, there won't be nearly as many ships with double repositioning actions either. All the linked actions we've seen so far give you stress too.
The most I have heard is three (kind of four) on Vader and that is pretty exceptional, 2 appears to be common enough on ace type craft. Have you heard different?
Stormonu wrote: Price annoys me, but my real concern is the proliferation of actions. I really think this edition’s bane is going to be the number of actions you can stack on some ships. I’m expecting it will become the #1 problem of the new game.
Huh? The devs have said the exact opposite is happening. Multiple actions, and especially multiple mods, will be very difficult to come by. Similarly, there won't be nearly as many ships with double repositioning actions either. All the linked actions we've seen so far give you stress too.
The video posted above shows the opposite, with X-wings having chained actions and the U-Wing handing out extra actions like candy.
Jek Porkins + U-Wing: U-Wing passes Focus to Jek. Jek does focus + boost, gains a stress. Rolls die to remove stress, takes another action, say, barrel roll. 4 actions right there.
That’s just one combo. I’m sure players will find many, many more - and far more elaborate combinations.
Not if you want to be competitive. The cards are more important than the ships in this game. You will need cards from the other faction to make your crappy ships not suck. The only saving grace here would be if they allow you to not have a physical card and use the app for sanctioned play. So far, there has been no mention of it.
That's a potential, I'll give you. But they have stated that cards are faction-specific, you get a buttload of cards in the conversion set and a lot of stuff is just built into the ships, like action type stuff.
I think it's too early to tell for competitive play, we need to see what actually turns out to be competitive versus the things that are provided. If they follow through with using the points adjustments on the app then there shouldn't be a must-have card that you need 4 of to play, because there will be other options and you've essentially bought a couple years worth of expansions in one shot. But, it's nothing you haven't already been dealing with if you are a competitive player. I think most truly competitive players are used to spending money on this game and are just grinning from ear to ear with this announcement. The tradeoff is perfectly reasonable, to get a newly playable game rather than a next umpteen wave with all the fixes tacked on, all your previous waves just shot.
I am not saying people are wrong here. I just want to understand where they are coming from. How many people who are complaining also play 40K? I am just curious because as was said in 40K there is a new edition ever 2 years (really 18 months) and 4-5 years. Then you have to buy codices and other books for rules as well.
Also now in with GW you also have to pay for errata when points are changed. So I don't see what the problem is over here. It's the same just with GW we are paying for dead trees to play a new edition. So if you play 40K current edition and complaining about Xwing, I just don't get it.
I can understand people who quit GW because of this tactic and went to Xwing, but to continue with 40K and complain about Xwing, I just don't get it.
Is it a business decision? Yes. FFQ or Asmodee or who ever it is, saw that Xwing is not growing and this could be a way they think it's a good way for Xwing to grow again.
Does it suck? Yes. Thing is, we don't need to buy everything at once. Is FFG doing the GW treatment and being a limited release? If so, I guess we can complain then. If not, we buy when we can afford it.
Also there is no difference in buying this pack just for the cards. How many people buy packs for the cards and not the ship? So this is not any different. If anything wouldn't this be cheaper, paying $50 for the box instead of buying individual ships for the cards?
Yes I know, it's like rebuying the same ships again just for the cards. Then again, it's not any different that people had to buy new minis for 40K when new editions come out.
So just like to understand why people are complaining when they continue to play 40K but complain about it for Xwing.
Stormonu wrote: Price annoys me, but my real concern is the proliferation of actions. I really think this edition’s bane is going to be the number of actions you can stack on some ships. I’m expecting it will become the #1 problem of the new game.
Yeah that was my immediate thought as well. You do sort of have that problem already, and I think stress will still be an issue that mitigates it... since some of the actions are red now. Also the actions themselves in general seem to be nerfed. But i also saw that using force points is another way to get extra actions? We shall see.
Also while the ships themselves have chained actions, I still expect that cards which grant bonus actions like PTL will be more rare or at least nerfed in this edition.
To all the people saying that they absolutely need to buy multiple conversion boxes:
Do you guys really play consistently with enough stuff that you won't be able to just play with one? I mean, I'm not sure, but with that plus the core box, I don't think there's much you can't play with what's in there...
Stormonu wrote: Price annoys me, but my real concern is the proliferation of actions. I really think this edition’s bane is going to be the number of actions you can stack on some ships. I’m expecting it will become the #1 problem of the new game.
TBH, I haven't even looked in detail at any of the posts/videos detailing the actual rules changes. In a gaming version of the hierarchy of needs, rules come after value for me personally. If I don't feel the cost to upgrade/continue is worthwhile regardless of whether or not I can afford it (like when I stopped buying x-wing boosters to chase cards when I stopped liking the ships they came with), I generally don't get to the personal satisfaction that rules may give me. For x-wing, I'm on the fence because of that. It's not unreasonable at $140 for me as my final upgrade cost (core, rebel and imperial upgrade sets) but it's also more than I consider to be a value for a game that I probably won't play often. If I only had to get a conversion set and not the starter in addition to it, I'd definitely jump in at $50 for one faction to test the water with the rules and, if I liked the changes, spend another $50 to upgrade my other faction. But $140 out of the gate? That's 10 ships worth of purchases and rightfully gives me pause. YMMV.
So just like to understand why people are complaining when they continue to play 40K but complain about it for Xwing.
Because there's a double standard when it comes to GW and other companies. Games Workshop fans are so used to them being screwed over that practising a basic PR presence was considered revolutionary and a sign of a whole new company.
You see this when Privateer Press started making less-than-ideal decisions and the amount of smug, overjoyed remarks from the GW Defence Force was flowing like water. "Yeah, now your company nearly sucks as much as ours! Haha!"
Right now I am looking at 2 imperial boxes, 2 rebel boxes, 1 box of scum and that covers all my ships, I need the core box apparently as well. This is $300 just for ships I already own and im stuck with 2 extra tie/ln I cant use because the game caps ships at 8 models.
No, you are looking at $70 bucks tops. Less if you are thrifty and have a an xwing community around you. My god man, don't go out and spend $300. Just buy the conversion set of the faction you want to play... you will have more than enough ships to play with. You can probably find the parts you need from the core set elsewhere (damage deck, other few random things) which would probably bring the cost down to $50. These things will be parted out on ebay and on forums. Have you tried calculating the actual MSRP cost of the ships you own?
Not only that, it's not $$ to 'keep on playing with the ships you own', it's closer to a new game. It's not an old GW style update where they just rejigger a few rules, throw up an $80 rulebook but keep the same broken points costs. They've altered the gameplay... it's like they've gone down a list and catered to every wish of the community (well, besides that people always want something for nothing). Just get one conversion set, play the game and if you actually enjoy it, buy into another faction, or not. At that point it will probably seem like a bargain.
-Living ruleset with constantly adjusted points costs
-All turrets are mobile firing arcs/ range bonuses
-Pilot skill nerfed
-Red dice rerfed
-Medium size bases
-Rules Bloat nerfed
etc, etc. These are things people have been complaining about for awhile. They're are not perfect and we all know that, but now that they have the app controlling points costs they at least have the tools to create a more balanced game than anything really that we see out there in the world of miniatures games. It is so much easier to turn a dial on an app than to fix with an faq, or a product that has to go through a whole production cycle.
sorry this is just completely dumb by any intelligent standard. Unless I want $800 worth of useless models it costs much more then $70. I hope this is just a troll because it is just a dumb comment.
To be fair I didn’t go around buying multiple of each ship just to have half a dozen ships of some. Certainships they keep putting in new packages with cards you want and need. This was the ffg ass model of sales. Most people recommended 2 core boxes to start. This gave you 2 templates and damage decks so you could teach someone and the core set was regularly on clearance at Barnes and Noble. That’s 2 xwing and 4 ties, next you were encouraged to pick up the blister to get Luke and howlrunner that’s 3 and 5, then they put an xwing in the epic ship and 2 ties in the carrier, that’s 4 and 7. Now we are required to buy the new core set that’s 5 and 9. I also picked up an extra tie expansion I think to make a swarm and for HOTAC. and at one point we had to order the xwing second core set to get the then required damage deck before they backtracked that decision due to backlash. I’ve resigned myself to giving away the first order and empire ships cause I have no intention of playing those factions. That’s only a loss of 2 t70 xwing and 3 tie/fo. This is great for new players starting out now. This completely screws over existing people unless they want to dump thier ships into the garbage.
I think one thing I've not seen mentioned much is that the new system will not require out of faction purchases to have access to all upgrade cards for a given faction. It sounds very much like X-Wing 2.0 will be like Legion and Runewars in that respect.
Under X-Wing 1.0, I purchased a ton of Rebel and Scum ships so that I could have more options for my Imperials. I don't think I ever used the Rebel ships and I might have used the Scum ships maybe 5 times total.
X-Wing 2.0 sounds great for someone like me who is really only interested in one faction. I can buy the new Core Set for $40 and then buy an Imperial Upgrade for $50. That'll give me everything I need to run my Imperial ships. I should only have to buy Imperial releases going forward to get all available options for my Imperial ships.
Albertorius wrote: To all the people saying that they absolutely need to buy multiple conversion boxes:
Do you guys really play consistently with enough stuff that you won't be able to just play with one?
That is the problem, for most people it is just 1 or 2 ships that are missing
those that fly 3 T-65 are missing 1 and need another Kit for just 1 ship, or buy the single ship (or core set) and throw the old model away
the same with some Tie models, the problem is not that the Kit is bad value (it is not) but that you end up with models you cannot use any more unless you buy another kit (as the other option come with a model)
So just like to understand why people are complaining when they continue to play 40K but complain about it for Xwing.
Because there's a double standard when it comes to GW and other companies. Games Workshop fans are so used to them being screwed over that practising a basic PR presence was considered revolutionary and a sign of a whole new company.
You see this when Privateer Press started making less-than-ideal decisions and the amount of smug, overjoyed remarks from the GW Defence Force was flowing like water. "Yeah, now your company nearly sucks as much as ours! Haha!"
I use the same imperial guard models since third edition release 1989 and added more over time they are all still usable. In 30 years I bought 5 rulebooks and 6 codecs, a supplement in 3rd edition as well. The books ranged anywhere from $20 to $60. That is NO WHERE in the ballpark of $300 just to use the models I currently own in xwing.
So just like to understand why people are complaining when they continue to play 40K but complain about it for Xwing.
Because there's a double standard when it comes to GW and other companies. Games Workshop fans are so used to them being screwed over that practising a basic PR presence was considered revolutionary and a sign of a whole new company.
You see this when Privateer Press started making less-than-ideal decisions and the amount of smug, overjoyed remarks from the GW Defence Force was flowing like water. "Yeah, now your company nearly sucks as much as ours! Haha!"
I use the same imperial guard models since third edition release 1989 and added more over time they are all still usable. In 30 years I bought 5 rulebooks and 6 codecs, a supplement in 3rd edition as well. The books ranged anywhere from $20 to $60. That is NO WHERE in the ballpark of $300 just to use the models I currently own in xwing.
You're comparing apples and oranges here. Let's call a duck a duck. You're talking about a SINGLE faction in 40k. You're talking about larger collections of ALL of the factions in X-Wing. Let's even things out and say you have three factions in 40k and have had them since 1989. You're going to be a hell of a lot higher than $300.
Also... I think your math HAS to be off. I've spent $160 for the rules to play Necrons under 8e. This is what I've needed to always be up to date with Necrons in the CURRENT EDITION. I might be a little off on the 7e pricing, but with just 7th and 8th Edition, I'm already over $300 in rules to have all of my options for a SINGLE 40k faction.
1. $60 - 8e Core Rules
2. $25 - 8e Index Xenos 2
3. $40 - 8e Codex Necrons
4. $35 - 8e Chapter Approved 2017
5. $85 - 7e Core Rules
6. $35? - 7e Codex Necrons
7. $50? - 7e Campaign Supplement feat. Necrons (Shield of Baal?)
7. $85? - 6e Core Rules
8. $60? - 5e Core Rules
9. $25? - 5e Codex Necrons
etc, etc...
To update X-Wing 1.0 to 2.0 will require $40. No getting around this. To upgrade an average collection of a single faction will cost $50. To upgrade a large collection of a single faction will instead cost $100. To upgrade the system AND large collections of everything that has ever been released for the game will obviously cost quite a bit, just as it would with 40k. Currently, if you want a "full rule set" for 40k 8e, you're well over $1000. The non-Forgeworld books alone cost $870 as of right now with more Codexes coming soon.
ingtaer wrote: I suppose this isn't the time to mention that individual small ship prices are going up as well...
I didn't notice that. :(
They've been the same price for a long time, but the cost to manufacture has probably gone up and the value of the dollar has gone down (gotta love inflation). FFG generally does a good job at keeping prices low/the same versus some other companies... cough, cough... GW. LCG pricing hasn't changed... ever?
Albertorius wrote: To all the people saying that they absolutely need to buy multiple conversion boxes:
Do you guys really play consistently with enough stuff that you won't be able to just play with one? I mean, I'm not sure, but with that plus the core box, I don't think there's much you can't play with what's in there...
TIE swarm horde was *THE* competitive meta for a while (albeit in the beginning). On a more personal note, I frequently played 3-4 x-wings myself in normal games because Star Wars. I own 6.. two boosters, two starters, and two upgraded Force Awakens versions.
ingtaer wrote: I suppose this isn't the time to mention that individual small ship prices are going up as well...
I didn't notice that. :(
They've been the same price for a long time, but the cost to manufacture has probably gone up and the value of the dollar has gone down (gotta love inflation). FFG generally does a good job at keeping prices low/the same versus some other companies... cough, cough... GW. LCG pricing hasn't changed... ever?
While I was fine with the $15 price point when the game debuted (and $30 for the large ships), I did find that when I was trying to get folks into the game that it game them a bit of pause. It was on the upper end of reasonable for one miniature for me because the paint job and detail was quite good so I could justify paying as much for one fighter as I did for 5-6 other prepaints in a random box. $20 is fine for the slightly larger and more complex ships that followed (like the ARC or gunboat) but I do understand that costs go up. That said.. it's putting the cart before the horse for me personally as I don't think I'll be expanding much beyond my current collection. I've already got almost all the ships that I want from both canon and the abandoned EU (TIE predator, Sith Infiltrator, and Jedi Starfighter notwithstanding). I've never been a fan of comparing prices to industry leaders in fleecing gamers like GW though personally. Getting screwed less isn't a positive in my book.
p.s. I do freely admit that GW does now offer tons of value in large boxed games though like starters and HH boxes unlike their more traditional purchases/expansions and will give them credit for that in recent years.
Stormonu wrote: Price annoys me, but my real concern is the proliferation of actions. I really think this edition’s bane is going to be the number of actions you can stack on some ships. I’m expecting it will become the #1 problem of the new game.
The game's core failing is that the dice curve pushes towards zero if you don't focus. Multiple actions were essentially necessary to let ships do anything interesting and contribute to combat. They definitely got out of hand (hi Soontir!) but the single action limit was a big reason the game needed so many dice fixing cards before it hit its stride.
I'm actually glad I sold my small collection late last year. I had 4 rebel and 4 scum ships just for casual games every now and again. $40 for the starter plus $100 for the upgrade kits is slightly more than I payed for the 8 ships in the first place.
So just like to understand why people are complaining when they continue to play 40K but complain about it for Xwing.
Because there's a double standard when it comes to GW and other companies. Games Workshop fans are so used to them being screwed over that practising a basic PR presence was considered revolutionary and a sign of a whole new company.
You see this when Privateer Press started making less-than-ideal decisions and the amount of smug, overjoyed remarks from the GW Defence Force was flowing like water. "Yeah, now your company nearly sucks as much as ours! Haha!"
I use the same imperial guard models since third edition release 1989 and added more over time they are all still usable. In 30 years I bought 5 rulebooks and 6 codecs, a supplement in 3rd edition as well. The books ranged anywhere from $20 to $60. That is NO WHERE in the ballpark of $300 just to use the models I currently own in xwing.
I am not saying you are wrong, again trying to understand. In 40K you are talking about one army. Are you talking about one army for Xwing as well?
On another note, why do people need all the cards? I mean can't we print them out? Or are we talking about tournament players here and they need to be official cards only. Also I am curious if so, how many armies do you bring to a tournament? After all don't you just field one army? So why would you need all 5 factions at once then? Can't we just buy what we need at the time?
Yes I know it sucks to spend more money on something we already bought. Thing is, we have upgrade packs or box set don't we? So we don't have to rebuy the minis just for the cards, we can buy the cards. To me this is just like buying a new rule set for a new edition like 40K or Fantasy/Age of Sigmar/what ever other Fantasy game. Same went for Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit and Warmahordes. For Xwing not to go through a new edition for what over 5 years, seems pretty good. Not like they do it all the time unlike other companies do.
That said, I can see where we are not getting value for our money. At least when we buy a new codex and rule set from GW, it seems we get more. We get Fluff. We get pictures and we get rules in the codices and rule books. We don't get that with Xwing or from Privateer Press now since we have to buy not real cards on the internet now.
So paying $50 for just cards, does seem like it's not worth it because we don't get pictures, or stories or fluff. So the value doesn't seem there. That I can understand and see why people would be complaining. Worth it for some and not worth it for others.
S
You need the new dials, but I am of the opinion that its best to just start with the conversion set for one faction and decide if you want to upgrade other later.
Most people own everything because the game essentially demanded it. Now's a good time to focus on a faction and offload the rest to someone else.
ingtaer wrote: I suppose this isn't the time to mention that individual small ship prices are going up as well...
Yeah, I saw this and that's what really ticked me off. I don't care about the upgrade costs, but every ship is $5 more. If anything is a money grab, it's that.
The more I think on this, the more conflicted and confused I become.
So... if the Conversion Kits mass-drop upgraded versions of every pilot and every upgrade, then the game really isn't a great opportunity for new players. An overwhelming amount of content will exist, and players might feel obliged to immediately buy a wide swathe of content.
But.... older players have already been told from Wave 2 onward of re-releases, that new cards will be included with existing/updated ships now repackaged. At that point as older ship packaging is phased out, will entire cards disappear from existence beyond their presence in Conversion Kits? How will the competitive community deal with this?
I'm actually going to entertain returning to this game, IF (and a big if), they remove the need for physical cards at organized play. As said elsewhere in this thread, the removal of that one petty item, would make this new edition so much more inviting. Even so, as someone who sold all my (massive) collection a year back, I am conflicted on how to buy back in, even if I want to. Are Conversion Kits functionally mandatory for competitive players who will want options, even if they're starting a new model collection from zero again?
ingtaer wrote: I suppose this isn't the time to mention that individual small ship prices are going up as well...
Yeah, I saw this and that's what really ticked me off. I don't care about the upgrade costs, but every ship is $5 more. If anything is a money grab, it's that.
Well, that’s a bit annoying, but I think I have just about all the ships I could ever need anyway.
Also, from what I saw of a shot of the new packaging, don’t they come with the “deluxe” plastic dials now?
The game has gone quite a long time without a price increase. Prepaints are expensive enough to produce I'm kind of surprised prices have held as long as they have.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: The more I think on this, the more conflicted and confused I become.
So... if the Conversion Kits mass-drop upgraded versions of every pilot and every upgrade, then the game really isn't a great opportunity for new players. An overwhelming amount of content will exist, and players might feel obliged to immediately buy a wide swathe of content.
But.... older players have already been told from Wave 2 onward of re-releases, that new cards will be included with existing/updated ships now repackaged. At that point as older ship packaging is phased out, will entire cards disappear from existence beyond their presence in Conversion Kits? How will the competitive community deal with this?
I'm actually going to entertain returning to this game, IF (and a big if), they remove the need for physical cards at organized play. As said elsewhere in this thread, the removal of that one petty item, would make this new edition so much more inviting. Even so, as someone who sold all my (massive) collection a year back, I am conflicted on how to buy back in, even if I want to. Are Conversion Kits functionally mandatory for competitive players who will want options, even if they're starting a new model collection from zero again?
I think there is a zero percent chance that FFG removes the requirement for physical cards during FFG supported organized play events. FFG wants you to buy more toy space ships. They don't want to make it easier for you to buy fewer toy space ships. I think everyone would prefer to not have to actually pay for our toys, but that's not how the world works.
As to the new player thing... I think the Conversion Kits are a really solid opportunity. They give a new player the opportunity and all game mechanic required components necessary to play test pretty much every currently available model for their faction without having to commit to any purchases. The only thing they wouldn't have are the ships... which aren't actually required for game play. They look pretty, but X-Wing is, and always has been, a game of bases. They MIGHT have to buy one of the base packs to have enough to work with. Maybe not. Depends on what's in the box. I don't think these new players will think "Oh man, I need to go out and buy the 50 ships that this upgrade pack can support." I think, instead, that they'll try out different ships and buy the ones they like. It's really no different than a new player getting in towards the end of 1.0. There are currently an "overwhelming" number of options, yet somehow new players cope just fine. Not everyone buys in one day one and not every player buys 3+ of every ship.
LunarSol wrote: The game has gone quite a long time without a price increase. Prepaints are expensive enough to produce I'm kind of surprised prices have held as long as they have.
Price increase for what? Once you make a mold that's all of your upfront cost. Once that's done, the miniatures are cheaper to produce than the box it comes in. Not to mention most of the models from 1st edition to 2nd edition aren't changing and are using the same molds. So it's not like miniature costs have increased.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: The more I think on this, the more conflicted and confused I become.
So... if the Conversion Kits mass-drop upgraded versions of every pilot and every upgrade, then the game really isn't a great opportunity for new players. An overwhelming amount of content will exist, and players might feel obliged to immediately buy a wide swathe of content.
But.... older players have already been told from Wave 2 onward of re-releases, that new cards will be included with existing/updated ships now repackaged. At that point as older ship packaging is phased out, will entire cards disappear from existence beyond their presence in Conversion Kits? How will the competitive community deal with this?
I'm actually going to entertain returning to this game, IF (and a big if), they remove the need for physical cards at organized play. As said elsewhere in this thread, the removal of that one petty item, would make this new edition so much more inviting. Even so, as someone who sold all my (massive) collection a year back, I am conflicted on how to buy back in, even if I want to. Are Conversion Kits functionally mandatory for competitive players who will want options, even if they're starting a new model collection from zero again?
I've thought about it too, and it is much better for a new player overall.
Currently to get into X-wing, and want to have say 2 decent Rebels lists you need to get a core set, 5/6 rebel ships to use in those lists but then 8 to 10 empire/scum ships for the upgrade cards you want. That's a horrible proposition for a new player.
In 2.0, you need to get the core set (same), 5/6 rebel ships to use (same) and 1 $50 conversion pack to give you every single upgrade card in existence for your faction. $50 is way less $$$ than the 8 to 10 random other ships, you get all upgrades not just some of them, and it's far easier to actually select - you just buy the conversion pack, you don't have to figure out *which* other random ships you need to get.
Even better, if you know you want a few rebel ships, you can get em on ebay (just the ship model and plastic stand) now for bugger all $$, just get the new core & conversion kit for $90 and be ready to rock.
$90 to have all the core rules/bits and all upgrades for your faction i do not find excessive. It compares fine to most other wargames edition changes.
LunarSol wrote: The game has gone quite a long time without a price increase. Prepaints are expensive enough to produce I'm kind of surprised prices have held as long as they have.
Price increase for what? Once you make a mold that's all of your upfront cost. Once that's done, the miniatures are cheaper to produce than the box it comes in. Not to mention most of the models from 1st edition to 2nd edition aren't changing and are using the same molds. So it's not like miniature costs have increased.
Almost certainly the licencing costs to Disney have gone up in the past 6/7 years.
Of course they've increased, inflation dictates that they've done so.
Plus being prepaints you've got ongoing material costs in the paint and masks, and I'm not sure how much is automated or done by hand, but there'll be maintainence costs and/or wages, all of which steadily creep up over time too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, there's been a round of price increases in the U.K. due to "currency fluctuations" (apparently) in the last few years, despite sterling weakening vs the dollar, and FFG have that nasty habit of 1:1 $>£ conversion, so I wonder what impact it'll have over here.
Case in point, UK RRP for the conversion packs turned back into dollars is nearly US$70.
Albertorius wrote: To all the people saying that they absolutely need to buy multiple conversion boxes:
Do you guys really play consistently with enough stuff that you won't be able to just play with one? I mean, I'm not sure, but with that plus the core box, I don't think there's much you can't play with what's in there...
TIE swarm horde was *THE* competitive meta for a while (albeit in the beginning). On a more personal note, I frequently played 3-4 x-wings myself in normal games because Star Wars. I own 6.. two boosters, two starters, and two upgraded Force Awakens versions.
That's me on the center/left.
Understood ^^. Still, the core plus the booster will give you 3 X-Wing dials, which yes, is less than you have, but I'd say it's not that bad. You'll also have 6 TIE dials with the core. As to the Force Awakens ones, well, those will have their own conversion packs, IIRC.
They've been the same price for a long time, but the cost to manufacture has probably gone up and the value of the dollar has gone down (gotta love inflation). FFG generally does a good job at keeping prices low/the same versus some other companies... cough, cough... GW. LCG pricing hasn't changed... ever?
While I was fine with the $15 price point when the game debuted (and $30 for the large ships), I did find that when I was trying to get folks into the game that it game them a bit of pause. It was on the upper end of reasonable for one miniature for me because the paint job and detail was quite good so I could justify paying as much for one fighter as I did for 5-6 other prepaints in a random box. $20 is fine for the slightly larger and more complex ships that followed (like the ARC or gunboat) but I do understand that costs go up. That said.. it's putting the cart before the horse for me personally as I don't think I'll be expanding much beyond my current collection. I've already got almost all the ships that I want from both canon and the abandoned EU (TIE predator, Sith Infiltrator, and Jedi Starfighter notwithstanding). I've never been a fan of comparing prices to industry leaders in fleecing gamers like GW though personally. Getting screwed less isn't a positive in my book.
p.s. I do freely admit that GW does now offer tons of value in large boxed games though like starters and HH boxes unlike their more traditional purchases/expansions and will give them credit for that in recent years.
I have been told that it was an unavoidable move to keep the level of profit per ship they had when they started releasing the game, back in the day.
Azreal13 wrote: Of course they've increased, inflation dictates that they've done so.
Plus being prepaints you've got ongoing material costs in the paint and masks, and I'm not sure how much is automated or done by hand, but there'll be maintainence costs and/or wages, all of which steadily creep up over time too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, there's been a round of price increases in the U.K. due to "currency fluctuations" (apparently) in the last few years, despite sterling weakening vs the dollar, and FFG have that nasty habit of 1:1 $>£ conversion, so I wonder what impact it'll have over here.
Case in point, UK RRP for the conversion packs turned back into dollars is nearly US$70.
Fair enough, but price increases on old models using the same molds is crap. Majority of the upfront costs are the molds. GW does the same thing all the time. When the Stormraven came out it was $45. Now it's what, $80? The sprues still cost pennies to produce. Granted FFG has other costs involved with prepaints and all of that, but I still don't think it's right. It's all a stop gap to try and not lose profits from all the customers they are going hemorrhage from going to 2nd edition. They will call it inflating costs, but that's just a small part of it. Like any company they just care about the bottom line. And I'm not saying that's wrong and they shouldn't, but charging higher prices for the same sculpts is just greed in my book. I'd be fine paying $20 for the new Y-Wing, X-Wing, and Fang Fighter sculpts. I have a problem with a $5 increase across the board. $15 was the sweet spot. $20 is just pushing it IMHO.
Fair enough, but price increases on old models using the same molds is crap. Majority of the upfront costs are the molds.
And people have blown up when new models with new molds are priced higher than old models.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Albertorius wrote: To all the people saying that they absolutely need to buy multiple conversion boxes:
Do you guys really play consistently with enough stuff that you won't be able to just play with one? I mean, I'm not sure, but with that plus the core box, I don't think there's much you can't play with what's in there...
I actually just did the math on this. The conversion kits cover 100% of the models I own after Wave 3. I've got some stuff not covered Wave 3 and prior (my poor TIEs :( ) but they're almost entirely things I had too much of already and then got one more via a repaint pack.
theharrower wrote: Fair enough, but price increases on old models using the same molds is crap. Majority of the upfront costs are the molds.
From what I have read over the years, molds wear out. Quality declines to a level where the detail starts to suffer, and a new mold is needed. A lot of Tie fighters have been made since wave 1, for instance, with maybe 10 (total guess) made in every batch?
So, "make the molds once and that's it" doesn't sound quite right.
The design costs though. They'll have been spent and don't wear out. That part of the manufacture process doesn't need to be done again.
Some of it is due to the new models, X-Wing, Y-Wing and Fang are all new. Firespray and TIE/ln are new paint jobs (maybe new model for TIE/ln). There is also going to be a new Silencer model and we have no info on any other stuff though the devs did say that they will be replacing stuff when they think it is deserved.
theharrower wrote: Fair enough, but price increases on old models using the same molds is crap. Majority of the upfront costs are the molds.
From what I have read over the years, molds wear out. Quality declines to a level where the detail starts to suffer, and a new mold is needed. A lot of Tie fighters have been made since wave 1, for instance, with maybe 10 (total guess) made in every batch?
So, "make the molds once and that's it" doesn't sound quite right.
The design costs though. They'll have been spent and don't wear out. That part of the manufacture process doesn't need to be done again.
Also, the cost to make something is only part of what determines the cost. What the customers are willing to pay is another (that's why generally monopolies aren't allowed); presumably FFG think that their customers will pay more for an X-Wing pack than they currently do.
(For example, in the 70s or 80s, British Airways asked its business customers how much they thought a ticket on Concorde cost. The average answer was significantly higher than what the price actually was - so they raised the price to match.)
Are we still debating about molds? I mean come on that is a GW excuse. Mold costs have nothing to do with how much something costs. "It's the price of doing business".
After all what about all the car companies, manufacturing companies, cups, dishes, everything, basically come from molds. If we have to use the GW excuse of "mold costs" then a $20 000 car would cost about a $100 000 then.
No molds is the "cost of doing business" and I am sure FFG is not using that excuse for the price increase like GW use to do. Also if molds cost so much, how come GW loves doing 1000 limited runs of minis then?
No, molds are not the reason why for the price increase. Inflation, prices not being raised for years, prices of plastic and paints and people's wages go up. Those are the reasons why the price increase as others have already said.
That said, yes it sucks for the prices going up, but if it's still a great game then the price increase should be well worth it. After all we don't have to buy everything all at once.
I now I couldn't afford all the ships for my collection so had to buy it here and there. That is a my problem, not FFGs fault.
So the $5 price increase is what a 25% increase does suck, look at it from how much fun you are going to still have. If you are not going to have fun, then it's time to move on and find a new game or something else you will have fun with.
Davor wrote: Are we still debating about molds? I mean come on that is a GW excuse. Mold costs have nothing to do with how much something costs. "It's the price of doing business".
After all what about all the car companies, manufacturing companies, cups, dishes, everything, basically come from molds. If we have to use the GW excuse of "mold costs" then a $20 000 car would cost about a $100 000 then.
No molds is the "cost of doing business" and I am sure FFG is not using that excuse for the price increase like GW use to do. Also if molds cost so much, how come GW loves doing 1000 limited runs of minis then?
No, molds are not the reason why for the price increase. Inflation, prices not being raised for years, prices of plastic and paints and people's wages go up. Those are the reasons why the price increase as others have already said.
That said, yes it sucks for the prices going up, but if it's still a great game then the price increase should be well worth it. After all we don't have to buy everything all at once.
I now I couldn't afford all the ships for my collection so had to buy it here and there. That is a my problem, not FFGs fault.
So the $5 price increase is what a 25% increase does suck, look at it from how much fun you are going to still have. If you are not going to have fun, then it's time to move on and find a new game or something else you will have fun with.
"The cost of doing business" is passed on to the customer in the price of the product. I assure you that the cost of a car, a cup, a dish, all include the cost of the mould too. But yes, I don't think tooling costs are the only thing behind this price increase. Apparently there'll be more cards included in the packs from now on, which is part of it (and before you repeat yourself, no, the additional cost of the cards doesn't make up the entirety of the price rise, but putting more things into the package is a good way to explain away a price increase). Some of the increase will be due to costs, some will be because they think they'll get away with it.
For me, the biggest issue with this is that it drops 2 months too late. My sons have recently started getting into games like this. when I heard version 2 was coming, my thought was that it would help while away the summer holidays. I don't see any point in starting version 1 now, but they will be back at school by the time this arrives.
ElvisJuice wrote: Well September puts it in time for Christmas, and also knowing FFG it'll get delayed for months anyway
And I can see a massive shortage of the new starter and the conversion kits, so loads of people will be behind with the new v2 system for months. Here's hoping FFG make enough.
Rodzaju wrote: For me, the biggest issue with this is that it drops 2 months too late. My sons have recently started getting into games like this. when I heard version 2 was coming, my thought was that it would help while away the summer holidays. I don't see any point in starting version 1 now, but they will be back at school by the time this arrives.
No reason not to get into v1, y'know. The current game is fine, and when 2.0 drops if you have a small collection it will be easy to skip over to the new version - or stay with the old and get it at dirt cheap prices. The game does not suddenly suck or burst into flames because it's old.
-----------
A thought did strike me about 2.0. With Fett and the Scurg going to scum, what is going to happen to the Y-Wing and Z-Wing? I can definitely see the Y-Wing going to the Rebels and the Z going to scum (due to Nashtap Pup) - but will they do that or leave them available to both factions?
Yeah, I very reluctantly bought the HWK, haven’t ever run it outside of a campaign game. Hopefully they do a lot to make it a better ship thats fun to play.
Azreal13 wrote: Of course they've increased, inflation dictates that they've done so.
Plus being prepaints you've got ongoing material costs in the paint and masks, and I'm not sure how much is automated or done by hand, but there'll be maintainence costs and/or wages, all of which steadily creep up over time too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: However, there's been a round of price increases in the U.K. due to "currency fluctuations" (apparently) in the last few years, despite sterling weakening vs the dollar, and FFG have that nasty habit of 1:1 $>£ conversion, so I wonder what impact it'll have over here.
Case in point, UK RRP for the conversion packs turned back into dollars is nearly US$70.
Fair enough, but price increases on old models using the same molds is crap. Majority of the upfront costs are the molds. GW does the same thing all the time. When the Stormraven came out it was $45. Now it's what, $80? The sprues still cost pennies to produce. Granted FFG has other costs involved with prepaints and all of that, but I still don't think it's right. It's all a stop gap to try and not lose profits from all the customers they are going hemorrhage from going to 2nd edition. They will call it inflating costs, but that's just a small part of it. Like any company they just care about the bottom line. And I'm not saying that's wrong and they shouldn't, but charging higher prices for the same sculpts is just greed in my book. I'd be fine paying $20 for the new Y-Wing, X-Wing, and Fang Fighter sculpts. I have a problem with a $5 increase across the board. $15 was the sweet spot. $20 is just pushing it IMHO.
I think you are overlooking the material needed for these models.
The prices on the material is also subject to change and can also affect the prices of the models.
So while they may use the same molds, only so many times, they have other expenses that will go into making these that get factored in at the end.
On topic:
I really like what I am hearing for 2.0.
Stormonu wrote: Yeah, I very reluctantly bought the HWK, haven’t ever run it outside of a campaign game. Hopefully they do a lot to make it a better ship thats fun to play.
I played a game where he had a stack of like 8 Focus, which he could dole out like candy to his friends. That was fun.
