In your mind what do you think this means?

both the Orks and Space Wolves codexes will be absolutely packed with new content for your games. If you’ve been looking on enviously as other factions get their time in the sun, your patience will soon be rewarded.

Source: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/01/codexes-kings-cawdors-and-more/

Could it mean new models, or just new relics and warlord traits? But you bets down below, fight it out! Beat each other up until one of you sounds better! Who ever picks the right answer gets a virtual cookie!

New ork stuff, nothing new model wise for wolves. Its just buzz words.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Its just buzz words.

Yep.

dont get your hopes up otherwise you will be let down

otherwise it will come as a pleasant surprise if something does happen.

Win win.

It does sound like a subtle hint of a wolves vs orks boxset to me in the vein of forgebane.

It means you will get a codex full off Games™ Workshop™ Citadel™ FineRules™, packed with 110% Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Goodness™. You won't believe how much content will be in your new Games™ Workshop™ Codex™. We've really outdone ourselves this time. We copy/pasted the same relics and warlord traits from the Ultramarines™, but now with 110% MORE WOLVES™. Give your Wolf™ Lord™ on Citadel™ Thunderwolf™ and Wolf™ Sword™ and Armor™ Of™ The™ Space™ Wolf™, or use the new BORK BORK I SEE A FOOD™ stratagem to have your Space™ Puppies™ get that scrap of food on the floor on a 2+. PACKED™ WITH™ CONTENT™.

Codex will have new stratagems, relic rules, traits and I won't get my RENAMING OF THE STUPID UNITS LIKE CANIS.

 Peregrine wrote:
It means you will get a codex full off Games™ Workshop™ Citadel™ FineRules™, packed with 110% Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Goodness™. You won't believe how much content will be in your new Games™ Workshop™ Codex™. We've really outdone ourselves this time. We copy/pasted the same relics and warlord traits from the Ultramarines™, but now with 110% MORE WOLVES™. Give your Wolf™ Lord™ on Citadel™ Thunderwolf™ and Wolf™ Sword™ and Armor™ Of™ The™ Space™ Wolf™, or use the new BORK BORK I SEE A FOOD™ stratagem to have your Space™ Puppies™ get that scrap of food on the floor on a 2+. PACKED™ WITH™ CONTENT™.

Lololol this, 100% this.

It means GW has you by the nuts and isn't gonna let you go till you part with your hard earned.

I can totally see some new Space Wolf kits so they take Primaris with the proper amount of claws and pelts on them.

Orks do have the benefit of an already established Ork Kulture and we'll routed Clans to work with, compared to some GSC, Dark Eldar Kabals, T'au Septs etc. They already have 6 major Clans plus Free Bootaz!

I can see the Ork book being one of the larger codex books for 8th.

Someone posted about models coming with the Ork codex. I'll drag it up when i can go find it again. Source was from the speakers at the expo.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Someone posted about models coming with the Ork codex. I'll drag it up when i can go find it again. Source was from the speakers at the expo.

There's a rumor engine featuring what is quite clearly an ork tire that we still don't have a model for, so this isn't altogether unsurprising.

If space furries get Russ forget anyone else getting viable spacemarines before 9th edition.

 Peregrine wrote:
It means you will get a codex full off Games™ Workshop™ Citadel™ FineRules™, packed with 110% Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Goodness™. You won't believe how much content will be in your new Games™ Workshop™ Codex™. We've really outdone ourselves this time. We copy/pasted the same relics and warlord traits from the Ultramarines™, but now with 110% MORE WOLVES™. Give your Wolf™ Lord™ on Citadel™ Thunderwolf™ and Wolf™ Sword™ and Armor™ Of™ The™ Space™ Wolf™, or use the new BORK BORK I SEE A FOOD™ stratagem to have your Space™ Puppies™ get that scrap of food on the floor on a 2+. PACKED™ WITH™ CONTENT™.

Dont forget the ability to Forge A Narrative™ with 100% more randomness for the sake of randomness for orks

I doubt it means anything at all. GW says every book is packed with new content, that's how you market a codex.

"packed with content" could just mean "containing pages between the two covers"

I hope there's more Space wolf units with Wolf in the title

I think it means they are saying they haven't printed the data sheets in quite this format before, so they are new content, and there will be all new photographs of the same old models.

I'm not expecting and new fluff thats worth the time to read it though or art work that actually adds anything.

Wish they would take the Orks back to the days of "ere we go"

 fraser1191 wrote:
I hope there's more Space wolf units with Wolf in the title

Stormwolffrostfang - everything in the SW codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Someone posted about models coming with the Ork codex. I'll drag it up when i can go find it again. Source was from the speakers at the expo.

I'd love to see that, personally.

 deathwinguk wrote:
"packed with content" could just mean "containing pages between the two covers"

Moreover, I bet it contains enough pages to fill the binding between those two covers!

Well 2 new models apiece would make them second only to knights. So...

Suspect Wolves are getting a couple primaris options and the orks are getting their new walker and the rumored Deffkopter variant.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Suspect Wolves are getting a couple primaris options.

That would be pretty significant. We haven't seen any truly unique Primaris units for any other chapters. Just an upgrade sprue and the odd alternate Lieutenant sculpt.

...It means "meaningless marketing language"?

I'm excited for the Ork codex, but one thing that makes me think we might not get a big model release is the recycled art on the cover. IIRC every codex that was accompanied by a major model release had new art. Am I wrong about that?

There's a good chance we'll maybe get a new model or two. Who knows, I'd be pleasantly surprised if we got a bunch of new kits.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'm excited for the Ork codex, but one thing that makes me think we might not get a big model release is the recycled art on the cover. IIRC every codex that was accompanied by a major model release had new art. Am I wrong about that?

There's a good chance we'll maybe get a new model or two. Who knows, I'd be pleasantly surprised if we got a bunch of new kits.

Imperial Knights got reused cover art so no. so far best I can tell only space marines have gotten new cover art.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'm excited for the Ork codex, but one thing that makes me think we might not get a big model release is the recycled art on the cover. IIRC every codex that was accompanied by a major model release had new art. Am I wrong about that?

There's a good chance we'll maybe get a new model or two. Who knows, I'd be pleasantly surprised if we got a bunch of new kits.

Imperial Knights got reused cover art so no. so far best I can tell only space marines have gotten new cover art.

:eyeroll:

Defanitly new models for both. I suspected the wolves would get a primaris size remake because next to new models they look like squats and primaris conversions are harder because of the detail the wolves have already. Orks defanitly getting new vehicles like buggies, possibly a walker probanly a new unit.

fe40k wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'm excited for the Ork codex, but one thing that makes me think we might not get a big model release is the recycled art on the cover. IIRC every codex that was accompanied by a major model release had new art. Am I wrong about that?

There's a good chance we'll maybe get a new model or two. Who knows, I'd be pleasantly surprised if we got a bunch of new kits.

Imperial Knights got reused cover art so no. so far best I can tell only space marines have gotten new cover art.

:eyeroll:

:Eyeroll:

fe40k wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'm excited for the Ork codex, but one thing that makes me think we might not get a big model release is the recycled art on the cover. IIRC every codex that was accompanied by a major model release had new art. Am I wrong about that?

There's a good chance we'll maybe get a new model or two. Who knows, I'd be pleasantly surprised if we got a bunch of new kits.

Imperial Knights got reused cover art so no. so far best I can tell only space marines have gotten new cover art.

:eyeroll:

the point is that the "new cover art = new models" is demonstrably false. Space Marines got new cover art because they're shifting the focus to Primaris Marines

BrianDavion wrote:

the point is that the "new cover art = new models" is demonstrably false. Space Marines got new cover art because they're shifting the focus to Primaris Marines

You're right, Imperial Knights is getting several new models but the same cover art. Also, Daemons appears to have the same cover art (I thought they got new art, but I was confusing it with the AoS Nurgle release). The other armies that got major model releases were getting their codexes for the first time, so they don't count.

To be clear I was not trying to say I thought that old art meant no new models, but rather that if they were re-vamping the line with a lot of new kits I thought they'd have new art to highlight them (like with Primaris Marines on the SM codex). Still, you are right that there have been significant releases without new art and I was wrong to draw a connection between those two things.

Is kinda cheap how they reused all the cover art... kinda wanted new stuff. In the old days the new cover art is what people looked forward too!

And how they could tell the editions apart.

My son bought me a codex for my birthday, turned out to be a 7-E copy. Luckily, the FLGS let me trade it for the right one.

 Peregrine wrote:
, but now with 110% MORE WOLVES™. Give your Wolf™ Lord™ on Citadel™ Thunderwolf™ and Wolf™ Sword™ and Armor™ Of™ The™ Space™ Wolf™, or use the new BORK BORK I SEE A FOOD™ stratagem to have your Space™ Puppies™ get that scrap of food on the floor on a 2+.

This is a gem.

Also, Storm, the new ones have a border on the cover around them to differentiate....

But no one unfamiliar with the game will fething know that.

 Stormonu wrote:
And how they could tell the editions apart.

My son bought me a codex for my birthday, turned out to be a 7-E copy. Luckily, the FLGS let me trade it for the right one.

Eye, I've almost done the same thing twice now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
New rule! Orks are now part of the imperium and have the imperial keyword! All models must be replaced by primaris marines painted blue and withe the ultramarine symbol. Any old Ork models from before the codex is now banned, punishable by excommunication by our holy lord GeDubs.

 vaklor4 wrote:
New ork stuff, nothing new model wise for wolves. Its just buzz words.

I'd prefer zero new SW models thant new SW primaris

Well...on a limb I reckon they will get the following:

Orks - Primork Ghaz and some mega mega nobz bodyguard ala Morty and Deathshroud (or whoever they are)

SWs - Russ and some ludicrously even hairier Wolfen (for arguments sake let's call them the Rogain)

Also copy paste strategems from previous codices....so much so that the intern cocks up and both factions get webway assault.

You have to buy the new cover art with the collectors edition.

I don't know what it costs elsewhere but in Canada it's generally $50+ or more for what a different cover and a tassle? My friends bought them and I just didn't understand, I love unique things but that's too much of a price hike. I can get quite a variety of kits for $50

Haha, would be funny if they do not even change the same and says it is for eldar only. XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fraser1191 wrote:
You have to buy the new cover art with the collectors edition.

I don't know what it costs elsewhere but in Canada it's generally $50+ or more for what a different cover and a tassle? My friends bought them and I just didn't understand, I love unique things but that's too much of a price hike. I can get quite a variety of kits for $50

Do you get anything else or is it just new cover art? Cus that's BS if it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just had a look. You don't even get the data cards for a cheaper price! They advertise them together but it's the same as if you bought them apart!

 fraser1191 wrote:
You have to buy the new cover art with the collectors edition.

I don't know what it costs elsewhere but in Canada it's generally $50+ or more for what a different cover and a tassle? My friends bought them and I just didn't understand, I love unique things but that's too much of a price hike. I can get quite a variety of kits for $50

I bought the Drukhari and Deathwatch collectors editions with data cards and they were £60 each. So you can mark up your price estimate quite a bit.

Yep, all you get is a bookmark ribbon and different artwork on the front with a soft touch cover.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Orks - Primork Ghaz and some mega mega nobz bodyguard ala Morty and Deathshroud (or whoever they are)

Models for Ghazzy's Bully Boyz would be cool.

This is just wishlisting, but for a more lore-friendly army I'd like it if they released Bully Boyz as an HQ choice that was a unit of 1-5 models. In the older Apocalypse books the Bully Boyz weren't specific to Ghaz, they were a warboss' toughest and most trusted underlings that would sometimes take command of parts if the warband individually and sometimes be formed into a unit to wreck stuff. I remember Orks used to have a lieutenant-type HQ choice a long time ago and I'd like to see it come back.

I think the current Warboss model and rules do a good job of representing an 'average' warboss, but it would be nice to get one a little smaller to represent a subordinate boss or leader of a small band, and one bigger to represent a warlord leading a Waaaagh! Again, this is more of a narrative thing than something I think is necessary from a competitive standpoint.

it means the codex has a lot of pages.
there wont be any new models released.

Mainly I just hope they won't cut a bunch of stuff from the Ork codex.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Mainly I just hope they won't cut a bunch of stuff from the Ork codex.

If they removed mega armour, kff and biker HQs then it would really be the end of a lot of Ork armies. Luckily my speed freak is a warboss in a wagon (I like the idea of a mad max warboss rather than a biker boss) but I would really feel for other armies.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Mainly I just hope they won't cut a bunch of stuff from the Ork codex.

If they removed mega armour, kff and biker HQs then it would really be the end of a lot of Ork armies. Luckily my speed freak is a warboss in a wagon (I like the idea of a mad max warboss rather than a biker boss) but I would really feel for other armies.

Doubt it because the biker warboss had a new rule in the last big faq faq/errata update. I have heard for ages that they have new warbuggy models for orks.

I'm not at all convinced we're going to see any new models with the Ork release. When the Knight codex was announced there was that awesome video with a preview of the new Knight. There's also been a ton of rumours around the new Knight releases. We were shown a new GSC model, so why not show a new Ork model, if there was one?

We've had a new Ghazzy model rumoured and a new vehicle possibly from the rumour engine pic. That's it.

I don't know, it all seems a bit quiet to me and GW have been absolutely forgetting about the Xenos in terms of model releases so far in 8th. I can't see it changing.

This would to me tie in to the Gorka Morka rumor I keep seeing.
We get a codex and then they run that boxed game to bring in the cash, we either just keep the models or keep and play everything and they are kinda off the hook for models for a little while. If it takes off they drop more models..
Who knows.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm not at all convinced we're going to see any new models with the Ork release. When the Knight codex was announced there was that awesome video with a preview of the new Knight. There's also been a ton of rumours around the new Knight releases. We were shown a new GSC model, so why not show a new Ork model, if there was one?

We've had a new Ghazzy model rumoured and a new vehicle possibly from the rumour engine pic. That's it.

I don't know, it all seems a bit quiet to me and GW have been absolutely forgetting about the Xenos in terms of model releases so far in 8th. I can't see it changing.

I feel this as well. I'm super scared they will just forget about orks and laugh at us... like "I can't believe you actually thought we were going to give you new models!"

Still... look at our codex and check off all the models we have that we do not officially have on the store.
Warboss on bike is a fw model (and the update might suggest we might not even get him or they would have waited)
Big mek on bike,
Piainboy on bike
Big mek with kff
Mega armour warboss

Now look at the units from like 3rd edition and metal
Buggy
Wartrack
Kopta
Big guns
Tank bustas
Kommandos

I forgot the rest...

But these are all unit that could vanish soon enough. But the hqs especially coukd vanish soon enough... we could l8se more than we get.

What would be worse is if we got some new boyz models and again leave out the none footslog Ork players.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
it means the codex has a lot of pages.
there wont be any new models released.

Of course not. The modeling people are putting in 75 hour weeks ramping up plastic Sisters.

it would be surprising if orks received a slew of new models. I doubt they will flesh out the HQ/character model line.

if they release new space wolf models, I'm sure they will have stupid haircuts and be terrible looking models. the best they can do is just add claws and markings. I'll never get people who like the aesthetic of space wolves without helmets.

And about the topic as a whole: I imagine that the codecies will be absolutely packed with relics and warlord traits and a bit of very topical fluff.


seriously, the worst model line.

All I know is that I'm totally looking forward to more frost and wolf references. Maybe we'll get "Frost Bolters" or "Wolf Bolters"? Oh, Frost ammunition! Yeah! Because nothing says Space Wolf like adding "Wolf" or "Frost" to a noun in the Space Wolf codex to differentiate it from regular Space Marines Codex!

 Tamwulf wrote:
All I know is that I'm totally looking forward to more frost and wolf references. Maybe we'll get "Frost Bolters" or "Wolf Bolters"? Oh, Frost ammunition! Yeah! Because nothing says Space Wolf like adding "Wolf" or "Frost" to a noun in the Space Wolf codex to differentiate it from regular Space Marines Codex!

It reminds me of the 5th edition blood angels codex where they changed absolutely all the wargear to include blood; blood strike missiles, bloodfist for dreds. It was truly obnoxious, like what a four year old would have named everything.

 lolman1c wrote:
I feel this as well. I'm super scared they will just forget about orks and laugh at us... like "I can't believe you actually thought we were going to give you new models!"

Still... look at our codex and check off all the models we have that we do not officially have on the store.
Warboss on bike is a fw model (and the update might suggest we might not even get him or they would have waited)
Big mek on bike,
Piainboy on bike
Big mek with kff
Mega armour warboss

Now look at the units from like 3rd edition and metal
Buggy
Wartrack
Kopta
Big guns
Tank bustas
Kommandos

I forgot the rest...

But these are all unit that could vanish soon enough. But the hqs especially coukd vanish soon enough... we could l8se more than we get.

What would be worse is if we got some new boyz models and again leave out the none footslog Ork players

It's all good, if they do this I'll just continue not to buy any of the old models and probably won't be spending any more money with GW for a while.

The thing that will really piss me off if this is the case is that it makes no sense to leave the codex, which is undoubtedly one of the larger factions, until last. It would be the equivalent of the two finger salute from GW and we've had enough of them in our time.

Kommmandos are from 3rd ? Kommandos are among the most beautiful models currently avaible !

 godardc wrote:
Kommmandos are from 3rd ? Kommandos are among the most beautiful models currently avaible !

No, they are younger than that, the end of 4th when that codex came out. 06'-07'ish.

Given how 8th is developing I've very little faith sw will not be DoA, they've fixed it so elite melee armies don't work.

hobojebus wrote:
Given how 8th is developing I've very little faith sw will not be DoA, they've fixed it so elite melee armies don't work.

Nah, they'll be at least ok what with getting all the Primaris stuff and still having core marine things. Not that that alone will let them consistently win tournaments or anything, but they won't be Grey Knights tier.

It wouldn't take much at all to make them semi competitive even, just looking at Blood Angels.

Yeah... if we did get nothing new and the codex seems very lazy then it would be absolutely insane to leave Orks (the second major faction in 40k! They come even before chaos because they were invented first! This is all I got as an Ork player so let me do my elitism) until 2nd to last. Like it would really highlight GeNubs true feelings towards Ork and Ork players. But if it was an amazing codex then it would be understanding.

This is probably meaningless, but I've been noticing the Big Gunz (Kannons, Lobbas and Zzap Gunz) slowly disappearing from the GW store over time. Not just being marked as sold out, but rather they straight up don't appear on the store at all. At first I noticed it in the U.S. store, but I could still find them in some other countries. A little while back I couldn't find them after checking about half the countries.

I really like the Big Gunz. Don't get me wrong, Mek Gunz are really cool, but for some reason I find the regular old Big Gunz more appealing. In my wildest fantasies I'm hoping they're releasing a kit with three gun carriages, one of each weapon, and maybe some vehicle mounts. Heck, an additional whole new gun that is visually more like the old Hop-Splats and Splatta Kannons would be rad, but would probably do the same thing as Lootas.

I'd hope for some ork releases given the rumours - but given June is presumably going to be all AOS I can't see it unless the codex isn't released until mid/late July.

Also I'd have thought there would be a warhammertv get hyped video - although I guess there is still time if we are looking 6-8 weeks out.

If it was next month then it means there is nothing new to show off.

 lolman1c wrote:
If it was next month then it means there is nothing new to show off.

yeah as someone who wants to see goodies for both codices I DON'T want a june release. a June releassde is a garenteer of "nothing enw ehre"

I think it's a pretty much guaranteed that space wolves will get some kit to introduce primaris into their lines. It's a certain at this point, whether their release is in June or not.

Orks are guaranteed nothing though.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I think it's a pretty much guaranteed that space wolves will get some kit to introduce primaris into their lines.

Primaris Close Combat Weapons.

Although in reality it will probably just be a bunch of heads with crazy hair.

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
it means the codex has a lot of pages.
there wont be any new models released.

They've literally said there will be new models.

CassianSol wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
it means the codex has a lot of pages.
there wont be any new models released.

They've literally said there will be new models.

Where? You have a source?

Most playtested edition ever.

Stux wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Suspect Wolves are getting a couple primaris options.

That would be pretty significant. We haven't seen any truly unique Primaris units for any other chapters. Just an upgrade sprue and the odd alternate Lieutenant sculpt.

Agreed. If any IoM faction would get unique primaris it would be wolves. Their codex/index almost shuns 'normal' models in the past. I'm guessing some kind of flanker that'll be 'reviers but different' and I'm privately hoping for some Cav since somebody at GW really, really wants to make SW some kind of non-bike cav force. I mean seriously, there are a lot of giant wolf calvary in that faction. I'm also dreaming of some kind of 'Ork Hunters' like the Tyrannic veterans of Ultramar.

Overall I'm thinking they decided wolves would get a couple new models and I suspect anything not a resculpt for marines will be primaris by default.

 Billagio wrote:

Dont forget the ability to Forge A Narrative™ with 100% more randomness for the sake of randomness for orks

I very much doubt that. Unless they have:

Units which roll on a random table to see which other random table you roll on to see what they do each turn

Random tables for Shokk Attack Guns (one for light infantry, one for heavy infantry, one for vehicles)

Random tables to determine what's in the warboss' kombi-weapon

Rules to represent your vehicles and heavy weapons breaking down, and your Mekboyz having limited resources to repair them

Warbikes facing a random direction every time they fire their bike cannon

Field guns firing randomly across the battlefield (bouncing a random number of times, each in a random direction)

Psykers firing their powers in a random direction, and getting an amount of powers partly determined by how many Orks are nearby at the time

then you're doing well. I pity anyone who ever tried to play Orks using all the rules in 1st edition.

It will be 4 whole chickens for one and dry white toast for the other.

zerosignal wrote:
Most playtested edition ever.

You are confusing 40K with WM/H.

"Absolutely Packed" is just hyperbole and marketing. Come on!

I'm sure the Space Wolves will get a new Primaris Troop box set that will be Intercessors with a Space Wolf upgrade sprue containing SW shoulder pads, a couple SW bolter rifles, SW bling, and a couple wild hair, bearded heads and pig tails, because nothing says SW like wild hair, beards, and pig tails.

For the Orks- who knows. I hesitate to say anything is better then what they have now, because GW in the past has proven how wrong that statement can be.

 lolman1c wrote:

CassianSol wrote:

 FrozenDwarf wrote:
it means the codex has a lot of pages.
there wont be any new models released.

They've literally said there will be new models.

Where? You have a source?

The GW panel at UK Games Expo. I was there for it.

Nothing was shown on screen, but someone got there before me to ask if Orks were going to get new kits. The answer was that that was the panel for Codexes now, or something like that - though given the Harlequins model release was a terrain kit, take from that what you will.

On the other hand, the majority of their answers were very politician-like, so aside from the odd "Look at Warhammer Community in roughly X period of time", most things didn't get firm answers.

Some Ork terrain would be cool, although the BS 5+ of Imperial terrain works pretty well for making Orky equivalents of Imperial models.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Some Ork terrain would be cool, although the BS 5+ of Imperial terrain works pretty well for making Orky equivalents of Imperial models.

If Orks only get a terrain feature I'll be seriously disappointed. The webway gate is the perfect example of what I would not want from GW in terms of new models.

I'm pretty sure you're going to be disappointed regardless of what orks get, so...

I know there is the infamous out of focus windmill-model pick - but if they were going Prime Ork Ghaz, rivalling a Daemon Primarch in scale, I feel something would have appeared somewhere if it was going to be coming out in 6-8 weeks. There are a few rumour engine posts that could maybe qualify - but the new GW is rarely that shy about their kits.

I guess if its late July that is still someway off and they are busy with the AoS hype (and probably Primaris with hair hype too) but still.

A new Ghaz, a new weirdboy, a new Tankbustas/kommandos kit and a buggy/trakk/scorcha kit would seem a reasonable set of units. Perhaps chuck in something entirely new.

After all GW doesn't seem inclined to re-release old kits these days (although I am probably missing an obvious one) so if they were to do say Tankbustas, it would probably be alongside a new unit X so the older collectors have something to buy. Or the unit would be changed so it can take new wargear or something like that.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm pretty sure you're going to be disappointed regardless of what orks get, so...

How's that? I'd take any actual models of y'know, something other than a structure.

I'll be picking up any new models too, even if they don't necessarily belong in my army (aka - a new Ghazzy model). Your assumption is both unfounded and incorrect.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Orks are guaranteed nothing though.

Even I'm not THAT pessimistic, and just look at my signature.

Last edition's ork codex came out with, what, 4 new model box sets? And that codex was basically a train wreck smashing into a dumpster fire. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they tossed something new our way.

I don't think it's likely at ALL that ghaz will get anything like a primork status, but a new model for him wouldn't shock me.

 Peregrine wrote:
It means you will get a codex full off Games™ Workshop™ Citadel™ FineRules™, packed with 110% Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Goodness™. You won't believe how much content will be in your new Games™ Workshop™ Codex™. We've really outdone ourselves this time. We copy/pasted the same relics and warlord traits from the Ultramarines™, but now with 110% MORE WOLVES™. Give your Wolf™ Lord™ on Citadel™ Thunderwolf™ and Wolf™ Sword™ and Armor™ Of™ The™ Space™ Wolf™, or use the new BORK BORK I SEE A FOOD™ stratagem to have your Space™ Puppies™ get that scrap of food on the floor on a 2+. PACKED™ WITH™ CONTENT™.

I had to exalt this post. You said this perfectly.

It is unusual for GW to hide new models for this long. Although, forgive me if i am wrong, the webway crap did kinda co e out of nowhere like a week kr so before the model came out.

 lolman1c wrote:
It is unusual for GW to hide new models for this long. Although, forgive me if i am wrong, the webway crap did kinda co e out of nowhere like a week kr so before the model came out.

in fairness though we've got AOS 2.0 coming out in June, so they could simply not wanna steal it's thunder by say announcing "primeork Gazzakul" that said it seems that GW is introducing new character models more via events then simple codex releases so..

 lolman1c wrote:
It is unusual for GW to hide new models for this long. Although, forgive me if i am wrong, the webway crap did kinda co e out of nowhere like a week kr so before the model came out.

The one rumor I heard about new models was for Orks, and it was that the Codex would include an entry for Looted Tanks.

So, maybe there's a model that already exists that can now be used for Orks.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
It is unusual for GW to hide new models for this long. Although, forgive me if i am wrong, the webway crap did kinda co e out of nowhere like a week kr so before the model came out.

The one rumor I heard about new models was for Orks, and it was that the Codex would include an entry for Looted Tanks.

So, maybe there's a model that already exists that can now be used for Orks.

I could see that, even if it was just a rules set for a few specific looted tanks it could really expand the Ork arsenal if you gave them a handfull of looted imperium tanks they could use. Looted Lemen russes for example would fill a pretty solid niche for orks I suspect

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Orks are guaranteed nothing though.

Even I'm not THAT pessimistic, and just look at my signature.

Last edition's ork codex came out with, what, 4 new model box sets? And that codex was basically a train wreck smashing into a dumpster fire. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they tossed something new our way.

I don't think it's likely at ALL that ghaz will get anything like a primork status, but a new model for him wouldn't shock me.

I think you misunderstand what I mean because you've taken a sentence completely out of context.

My point is that Space Puppers are guaranteed new models by virtue of Primaris marines existing. Orks are not. We might get new models but it's by no means a guarantee (assuming you ignore everything those who attended the games expo told us).

If SW are not getting anything else than a Primaris upgrade sprue I'm going to be fethin' red with rage. They could have just released the codex with BA/DA and be done with it. The late release is at least to me a slight indication that SW might be getting something new altogether. My hopes are on Russ but who knows, they haven't even teased anything yet.

For Orks I really don't need any new models, I just want a bloody playable army!

 Weazel wrote:
If SW are not getting anything else than a Primaris upgrade sprue I'm going to be fethin' red with rage. They could have just released the codex with BA/DA and be done with it. The late release is at least to me a slight indication that SW might be getting something new altogether. My hopes are on Russ but who knows, they haven't even teased anything yet.

For Orks I really don't need any new models, I just want a bloody playable army!

I don't understand why you'd be upset if wolves released late without anything but not if Orks released late without anything? They could have released the Ork Dex with Craft world and Nids and be done with it.

BrianDavion wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
It is unusual for GW to hide new models for this long. Although, forgive me if i am wrong, the webway crap did kinda co e out of nowhere like a week kr so before the model came out.

The one rumor I heard about new models was for Orks, and it was that the Codex would include an entry for Looted Tanks.

So, maybe there's a model that already exists that can now be used for Orks.

I could see that, even if it was just a rules set for a few specific looted tanks it could really expand the Ork arsenal if you gave them a handfull of looted imperium tanks they could use. Looted Lemen russes for example would fill a pretty solid niche for orks I suspect

It would make a Blood axes army very much viable. Like in epic where I use looted bloodaxe rhinos (they are real official GW units). The, an ork player who already has every model and buy more models!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
If SW are not getting anything else than a Primaris upgrade sprue I'm going to be fethin' red with rage. They could have just released the codex with BA/DA and be done with it. The late release is at least to me a slight indication that SW might be getting something new altogether. My hopes are on Russ but who knows, they haven't even teased anything yet.

For Orks I really don't need any new models, I just want a bloody playable army!

I don't understand why you'd be upset if wolves released late without anything but not if Orks released late without anything? They could have released the Ork Dex with Craft world and Nids and be done with it.

This is what makes ork so hitt and miss. If there is nothing new then why didn't it come out along side the other major factions? Why was it left until last (alongside the dlc factions as i call them. Nit saying they're not good factions just extention bonus factions if you get me).

 lolman1c wrote:
It is unusual for GW to hide new models for this long. Although, forgive me if i am wrong, the webway crap did kinda co e out of nowhere like a week kr so before the model came out.

Entire faction came out of nowhere in this spring so....Stealer cults also came in rather sneaky. GW has come hard down on rumours outside what they let out past few years

Oh and there's tons of sneak peeks from community no matching models have yet been released...

This as well... but maybe they might not come out with the codex...

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
If SW are not getting anything else than a Primaris upgrade sprue I'm going to be fethin' red with rage. They could have just released the codex with BA/DA and be done with it. The late release is at least to me a slight indication that SW might be getting something new altogether. My hopes are on Russ but who knows, they haven't even teased anything yet.

For Orks I really don't need any new models, I just want a bloody playable army!

I don't understand why you'd be upset if wolves released late without anything but not if Orks released late without anything? They could have released the Ork Dex with Craft world and Nids and be done with it.

Well they have already confirmed there will be new models for Orks. I just said I don't particularly _need_ anything but if we're getting stuff I'll take it! Updated rules and buffs for both factions is what I'm more interested in, because my enjoyment and willingness to play 40k has dwindled because I cannot field a decently competitive army with either faction.

I'd be super happy and amazed if we get both Ghazghkull "Primork" Thraka and Leman Russ models, but if we at least get something exciting then I guess it might have been worth the wait. If it's just a primaris sprue for wolves I am disappoint.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
If SW are not getting anything else than a Primaris upgrade sprue I'm going to be fethin' red with rage. They could have just released the codex with BA/DA and be done with it. The late release is at least to me a slight indication that SW might be getting something new altogether. My hopes are on Russ but who knows, they haven't even teased anything yet.

For Orks I really don't need any new models, I just want a bloody playable army!

I don't understand why you'd be upset if wolves released late without anything but not if Orks released late without anything? They could have released the Ork Dex with Craft world and Nids and be done with it.

Because Orks at least can be argued to need a fair bit of work, space Wolves if they get nothing new, and just the standard primaris stuff, it's like "why wait so long?"

I kinda felt that all chapter specific stuff would be pushed either super early or last... when I saw grey knights I thought that was the start but by spreading it all out they have done a few things.
Created a very uneven playing feild where half of marine players have a pretty good army and half of them have an army that had the same units but at a widely different price.
Yet, you ahve also made sure not all imperial players codecies suck because they came first.

I'm, surprised with how much negativity there is in these threads. Every codex released is unique, fluffy and has some competitive builds in them and I see no reason orks will be any different. IMO GW has been doing an amazing job with every recent codex dropped and every time i listen to a review im tempted to go out and buy some.... I think this knight release did me in, im gonna have to pick one up.

Asmodios wrote:
I'm, surprised with how much negativity there is in these threads. Every codex released is unique, fluffy and has some competitive builds in them and I see no reason orks will be any different. IMO GW has been doing an amazing job with every recent codex dropped and every time i listen to a review im tempted to go out and buy some.... I think this knight release did me in, im gonna have to pick one up.

2 Things.

1: orks have a long track record of having uninspired, bad for the sake of bad, garbage codexes. Seriously, I own all the ork books, and let me tell you, they were only good in 4th edition. The Matt Ward Era was not kind to xenos....

2: You're on a forum that's starting to become synonymous with whining. Most of the people having fun are just playing the game, and not spending hours online dissecting people's comments to destroy them in an argument. Dakkadakka is a very small minority of overall players. I know its not the ENTIRE forum, but the negativity here is a lot worse than other warhammer forums by a large margin. http://www.tga.community is 100% age of sigmar stuff, but the amount of butthurt there is practically nonexistent. We're all on the same side here guys and gals.

Overall GW has been on top of things, but the knights release has me a little worried for orks. GW apparently just forgot that they invented renegade knights and didn't think anyone would ever play them so they get no rules....? The people running their facebook seem to not even play their own game or use the internet for that matter and seem so baffled that anyone would want anything besides Imperium stuff. I don't want my warboss in mega armor to be squatted for index only. Just make some new clamshells because orks desperately need it.

edit: It doesn't even make sense from a business standpoint. Wouldn't you want the increased revenue of chaos players in your model line consisting of 180 dollar kits that you have to buy multiples of?

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
If SW are not getting anything else than a Primaris upgrade sprue I'm going to be fethin' red with rage. They could have just released the codex with BA/DA and be done with it. The late release is at least to me a slight indication that SW might be getting something new altogether. My hopes are on Russ but who knows, they haven't even teased anything yet.

For Orks I really don't need any new models, I just want a bloody playable army!

I don't understand why you'd be upset if wolves released late without anything but not if Orks released late without anything? They could have released the Ork Dex with Craft world and Nids and be done with it.

Because Orks at least can be argued to need a fair bit of work, space Wolves if they get nothing new, and just the standard primaris stuff, it's like "why wait so long?"

That makes no sense.

If Orks need a fair bit of work then they need new models even more.

Isn't one of the advantages of playing Orks, making your own stuff?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
If SW are not getting anything else than a Primaris upgrade sprue I'm going to be fethin' red with rage. They could have just released the codex with BA/DA and be done with it. The late release is at least to me a slight indication that SW might be getting something new altogether. My hopes are on Russ but who knows, they haven't even teased anything yet.

For Orks I really don't need any new models, I just want a bloody playable army!

I don't understand why you'd be upset if wolves released late without anything but not if Orks released late without anything? They could have released the Ork Dex with Craft world and Nids and be done with it.

Because Orks at least can be argued to need a fair bit of work, space Wolves if they get nothing new, and just the standard primaris stuff, it's like "why wait so long?"

That makes no sense.

If Orks need a fair bit of work then they need new models even more.

not what I mean, Orks need completely new stratigiums etc. Space Wolves will likely get a number of old space marine stratigiums and a handfull of unique ones. barring anything new, space wolves where about 75% complete when the Marine 'dex dropped

Do not mention Matt Ward here... his name is banned in the Ork language!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Don Savik wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
I'm, surprised with how much negativity there is in these threads. Every codex released is unique, fluffy and has some competitive builds in them and I see no reason orks will be any different. IMO GW has been doing an amazing job with every recent codex dropped and every time i listen to a review im tempted to go out and buy some.... I think this knight release did me in, im gonna have to pick one up.

2 Things.

1: orks have a long track record of having uninspired, bad for the sake of bad, garbage codexes. Seriously, I own all the ork books, and let me tell you, they were only good in 4th edition. The Matt Ward Era was not kind to xenos....

2: You're on a forum that's starting to become synonymous with whining. Most of the people having fun are just playing the game, and not spending hours online dissecting people's comments to destroy them in an argument. Dakkadakka is a very small minority of overall players. I know its not the ENTIRE forum, but the negativity here is a lot worse than other warhammer forums by a large margin. http://www.tga.community is 100% age of sigmar stuff, but the amount of butthurt there is practically nonexistent. We're all on the same side here guys and gals.

Overall GW has been on top of things, but the knights release has me a little worried for orks. GW apparently just forgot that they invented renegade knights and didn't think anyone would ever play them so they get no rules....? The people running their facebook seem to not even play their own game or use the internet for that matter and seem so baffled that anyone would want anything besides Imperium stuff. I don't want my warboss in mega armor to be squatted for index only. Just make some new clamshells because orks desperately need it.

edit: It doesn't even make sense from a business standpoint. Wouldn't you want the increased revenue of chaos players in your model line consisting of 180 dollar kits that you have to buy multiples of?

Also complaining for us is fun and stress relief. In reality we're not really this sad... gw and 40k is such a small part of my life... but a good complaint and debate can go amlong way in feeding mah boredom when I'm sat on the buss!

But yes... you are correct. For a long period of time most our our units never had models. We had to make our own! Thus, orks became linked with kit bashing. However, 8th edition has destroyed and basically delted any kit bashing. Therefore, for some people, a lot of their ork army might become useless and unusable when the codex comes out. And don't say we have the index because we all know that the index won't last forever and soon they will be delted forever. This is what we fear. Our HQ's were already cut in half this edition (mega armour and bike were basically upgrades not new characters) and if our mega boss, warbike mek, kff mek (the most important hq to our army), bike painboy vanish then we are screwed like a squig in a cannon.

lolman1c wrote:
But yes... you are correct. For a long period of time most our our units never had models. We had to make our own! Thus, orks became linked with kit bashing. However, 8th edition has destroyed and basically delted any kit bashing. Therefore, for some people, a lot of their ork army might become useless and unusable when the codex comes out. And don't say we have the index because we all know that the index won't last forever and soon they will be delted forever. This is what we fear. Our HQ's were already cut in half this edition (mega armour and bike were basically upgrades not new characters) and if our mega boss, warbike mek, kff mek (the most important hq to our army), bike painboy vanish then we are screwed like a squig in a cannon.

This concern terrifies me, and I’m not even an Ork player. The current direction GW is taking of ‘if it doesn’t have a dedicated kit with that exact loadout it’s not a legal option’ is just utter misery, and I can’t even see a good business case for it.

Also, yes, this board is certainly the home of the whinging. The only forum I know of that’s worse is Bell of Lost Souls’ comments, which are so toxic I gave up on the site completely. If you want to see a healthy community of happy 40k players, go to Bolter and Chainsword’s Black Templars sub forum; a group of some of the hardest-done-by people in the hobby that have overcome that adversity to create an enthusiastic and positive environment.

Asmodios wrote:I'm, surprised with how much negativity there is in these threads. Every codex released is unique, fluffy and has some competitive builds in them and I see no reason orks will be any different. IMO GW has been doing an amazing job with every recent codex dropped and every time i listen to a review im tempted to go out and buy some.... I think this knight release did me in, im gonna have to pick one up.

To be fair, this is only true of the post-Astra Militarum Codexes. The five pre-AM books (Marines, Chaos Marines, Grey Knights, AdMech and to a slightly lesser extent Death Guard) are lacking the love shown in the depth of the later books. That they happen to be the first books seems to speak to the problem being their being finished before the launch of 8th Ed. All the books since have been consistently much better written so you’d hope no more will be as bad as the early ones this Edition, but there is still a genuine concern that Orks could turn out like Grey Knights...

 Don Savik wrote:
2: You're on a forum that's starting to become synonymous with whining. Most of the people having fun are just playing the game, and not spending hours online dissecting people's comments to destroy them in an argument. Dakkadakka is a very small minority of overall players. I know its not the ENTIRE forum, but the negativity here is a lot worse than other warhammer forums by a large margin. http://www.tga.community is 100% age of sigmar stuff, but the amount of butthurt there is practically nonexistent. We're all on the same side here guys and gals.

And TGA has a reputation of quashing any dissenting opinion - of the two, I'll take the one where you can express your opinion with minimal chances of it getting nuked from orbit for dissenting from the groupthink...

Yes, I'm super careful on tga... i try to ac5 as happy as possible so i don't get banned. XD

Didn't TGA start with that exact purpose? Whe AoS just released it was a near unplayable mess due to lack of points but you couldn't discuss it anywhere without getting drowned in hatred do the forum began with a zero tolerance rule for negativity. You can find that everywhere alse but here.

Also the reason for if no model = no rules is the chapterhouse court case, tough we do not know the details of it.

lolman1c wrote:Yes, I'm super careful on tga... i try to ac5 as happy as possible so i don't get banned. XD

Jasper from the Simpsons: “Happy thoughts... happy thoughts... boy, I’m getting mighty sick of this-‘ *pop*

Earth127 wrote:
Also the reason for if no model = no rules is the chapterhouse court case, tough we do not know the details of it.

For the damage that guy has done to this hobby I’m sorta glad they ruined his livelihood.

Yeah he found the line, and a lot of people don't like the result.

After that GW had little choice due to tm laws. They know what they have to do to enforce and not weaken their tm .

 lolman1c wrote:
And don't say we have the index because we all know that the index won't last forever and soon they will be delted forever.

Do we? Are we expecting codex price increased to incorporate price of index? Because if there's something we can count it's GW being greedy. Why sell only codex when you can sell codex AND index to player of some army...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Earth127 wrote:
Yeah he found the line, and a lot of people don't like the result.

After that GW had little choice due to tm laws. They know what they have to do to enforce and not weaken their tm .

Only real effect that had is the no model no rule. Alternative models comes just as easily. All design changes and name changes and whatnot are irrelevant. So GW basically decided we'll hurt players rather than compete with others.

I don't know if we should put all the blame on the chapter house thing... i mean i know what they did was wrong but gw outright would rather mkae more marines and remove units people were playing for years than actually make models to fill in missing holes.

I mean I would honestly rather have a dedicated mega armour warboss model just so I can keep the data sheet than a prime ork boy.

Don't forget that we are in Age of Th Primarch now and its been a good amount of time since Morty was released. If there was going to be a new primarch you'd expect it to be a loyalist one and only one loyalist marine book left to come...
Russ vs SuperGhaz

GW were in the wrong with chapter house just like they were with dot the space marine.

It's stupid to try and crush third party companies if they had any business sense they'd make a license deal and let other people make the capes and tabards they wont.

Calling your armies stupid names won't stop people making stuff for them.

Recently I built a deathsworn unit I used mk iv as the base but to arm them I had to go for another companies products to get melee arms and axes and a different one to that for helms.

If gw won't make the stuff people want other companies will that's just business.

That's why they limit what others can make that they don't.

 Earth127 wrote:
Yeah he found the line, and a lot of people don't like the result.

After that GW had little choice due to tm laws. They know what they have to do to enforce and not weaken their tm .

TBH though. If GWs universe was just getting off the ground in this day and age. They wouldnt exist. Theyd have been raped into the ground by tm lawyers.

My buddy has been waiting for Space Wolves since the beginning of 8th. He almost cried when they moved on from all the chapters and starting working on the xenos.

I'm sure it'll have some awesome artwork and updated unit rules and some cool stratagems and powers and artifacts, and so long as it doesn't suck, I'm sure he'll consider that "absolutely packed" and be happy.

Archebius wrote:
My buddy has been waiting for Space Wolves since the beginning of 8th. He almost cried when they moved on from all the chapters and starting working on the xenos.

I'm sure it'll have some awesome artwork and updated unit rules and some cool stratagems and powers and artifacts, and so long as it doesn't suck, I'm sure he'll consider that "absolutely packed" and be happy.

Funny. Our Xenos players were crying too for very different reasons. I can understand Orks, but Space Wolves still have BJorn to carry them until he inevtibly gets nerfed in the codex release. Maybe he doesn't like playing with dreadnaughts?

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Archebius wrote:
My buddy has been waiting for Space Wolves since the beginning of 8th. He almost cried when they moved on from all the chapters and starting working on the xenos.

I'm sure it'll have some awesome artwork and updated unit rules and some cool stratagems and powers and artifacts, and so long as it doesn't suck, I'm sure he'll consider that "absolutely packed" and be happy.

Funny. Our Xenos players were crying too for very different reasons. I can understand Orks, but Space Wolves still have BJorn to carry them until he inevtibly gets nerfed in the codex release. Maybe he doesn't like playing with dreadnaughts?

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

fe40k wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

Archebius wrote:
My buddy has been waiting for Space Wolves since the beginning of 8th. He almost cried when they moved on from all the chapters and starting working on the xenos.

I'm sure it'll have some awesome artwork and updated unit rules and some cool stratagems and powers and artifacts, and so long as it doesn't suck, I'm sure he'll consider that "absolutely packed" and be happy.

Funny. Our Xenos players were crying too for very different reasons. I can understand Orks, but Space Wolves still have BJorn to carry them until he inevtibly gets nerfed in the codex release. Maybe he doesn't like playing with dreadnaughts?

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

How DARE they!? Wanting to use their army!? Not wanting to proxy everything!? People are just ridiculous.

Orks will likely get a standard new edition Codex - so new rules, points drops, relics Strategms etc. Likely make a much better army list but doubt any new models.

Wolves will get the same plus Wolfy Wolf Primaris because marines get new Marines..

hobojebus wrote:
If gw won't make the stuff people want other companies will that's just business.

To some degree since it happened yes but GW don't have to like it. Their concern has always been that you would just go and buy "not Space Marines" and "not Orks" from "discount mould store" rather than their products. After all what does the raw plastic really cost?

The reason why this probably won't happen is that that "not Space Marines" have typically looked awful (with certain exceptions who bought lots of Mantic stuff for instance?) - but the fear is there, especially if manufacturers can get very close to the aesthetic - which is a clear breach of intellectual property.

Cynically around 2010, when they started to really go for this stuff, GW's lead over the competition was rapidly declining. Their products were not much better than say Warmahordes.
From about 2015 onwards - tying in with the Rountree era - their models have become dramatically better than most competitors.

Yeah and with FW clearing out mu h of their stock it just encourages 3rd part crap.

But yeah, orks are more likely to lose more units than we will gain... while wolves will just get an upgrade and be fine... their warboss can ride on a giant wolve until they die, our Mek on bike will have to retire his speed and use the crappy shock attack gunl

 Mr Morden wrote:
Orks will likely get a standard new edition Codex - so new rules, points drops, relics Strategms etc. Likely make a much better army list but doubt any new models.

Wolves will get the same plus Wolfy Wolf Primaris because marines get new Marines..

Except gw alreadv hinted at modeis

As much as I want to hope, you til I see an official post or video from a dev or official GW account, then I will not give 100% trust. GW has broken many an Orks hearts before.

fe40k wrote:

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

Wow, thanks! That’s super helpful! Now I realise how I can just counts-as my Thunderwolf Cavalry! And my Ravenwing Black Knights! And my Sanguinary Guard! And my Crusader Squads!

If you’re going to be snarky at least be right.

For what it's worth, someone brought up the fact that if "No model, no rules" sticks, Orks won't have much to work with - and the Facebook team attempted to assuage their fears, and told them that it wouldn't be a problem; and there'd be plenty of units to work with (in terms of rules).

That said, we'll see when the codex comes out...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kombatwombat wrote:

fe40k wrote:

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

Wow, thanks! That’s super helpful! Now I realise how I can just counts-as my Thunderwolf Cavalry! And my Ravenwing Black Knights! And my Sanguinary Guard! And my Crusader Squads!

If you’re going to be snarky at least be right.

Tell me what those units bring to the table that's so unique they can't be represented by other model's rules; I'm curious.

kombatwombat wrote:

fe40k wrote:

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

Wow, thanks! That’s super helpful! Now I realise how I can just counts-as my Thunderwolf Cavalry! And my Ravenwing Black Knights! And my Sanguinary Guard! And my Crusader Squads!

If you’re going to be snarky at least be right.

That works lot better than using say orks with blood angel rules. Point being wolf player# have that option to get codex power while waiting for wolf codex and indeed using different marine codexes with same marine models is this age normal

It's not even that we will just lose half our HQ's (as mentioned above) we will eventually lose half our codex unless things get upgraded. The no model no rules will have a major effect on Orks over the next few years. You can already see GW slowly removing all metal and fail cast models.

If they removed metal models we would lose our Tank bustas and Kopptas.

Then fail cast goes. We lose our warboss, weirdboy, kommandos, big guns, buggies, trakks and more hqs...

Hell what would even be left in our codex? Because right now our big mek only has 1 model even on sale unless you buy a £40 mega nob set (then you get two useless models and have to buy another £40 set. So we could potentially end up with only 1 hq left in the next few years unless they are updated!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:

fe40k wrote:

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

Wow, thanks! That’s super helpful! Now I realise how I can just counts-as my Thunderwolf Cavalry! And my Ravenwing Black Knights! And my Sanguinary Guard! And my Crusader Squads!

If you’re going to be snarky at least be right.

That works lot better than using say orks with blood angel rules. Point being wolf player# have that option to get codex power while waiting for wolf codex and indeed using different marine codexes with same marine models is this age normal

On one hand, yes. There is nothing to stop wolf players splitting up their force and dedicating their marine to one chapter (be it ultra or blood) and then have their wolves be a different detachment and still have space wolves keywords.
One the other, we cannot expect players to spend £30 on a rule book they won't even use in the future. That's just a scummy gw move.

However, as i keep saying with my sign that says "the end is neigh". Space wolves players don't have to worry about half their army disappearing. Hell, as i keep saying, two of the primary HQ for 90% of ork armies (big mek with kff and mek on bike with kff) don't have models! There is a very likely chance (given the evidence) our only defence is about to vanish forever unless we fork out £40 or spend big bucks on a Morkanaut. Gw could outright remove one of the most iconic units of our codex unless it gets a model! This is why i don't give a squig about prime orks or beast ghaz... because right now our units that we already own are in danger of being useless and left behind in an index that will one day be out dated.

You know you can still use the index for non-codex models right?

phillv85 wrote:
You know you can still use the index for non-codex models right?

You know that the index point costs and weapon options are wildly outdated compared to their codex counterparts right?

What they mean is: Space Wolf Primaris and a new pure Primaris Chapter that fights Orks.

 Bloviator wrote:
What they mean is: Space Wolf Primaris and a new pure Primaris Chapter that fights Orks.

There is at least one SW Primaris Chapter in the Dark Imperium Novel - Wolfspear

 lolman1c wrote:

However, as i keep saying with my sign that says "the end is neigh". Space wolves players don't have to worry about half their army disappearing. Hell, as i keep saying, two of the primary HQ for 90% of ork armies (big mek with kff and mek on bike with kff) don't have models! There is a very likely chance (given the evidence) our only defence is about to vanish forever unless we fork out £40 or spend big bucks on a Morkanaut. Gw could outright remove one of the most iconic units of our codex unless it gets a model! This is why i don't give a squig about prime orks or beast ghaz... because right now our units that we already own are in danger of being useless and left behind in an index that will one day be out dated.

Orks need models for KFF Big Mek, Big Mek on Bike, Painboy on Bike, Warboss on Bike, and Mega Armored Warboss. I highly doubt they are going to release 5 HQ kits in one go so it will be interesting to see how they handle their whole "no model, no codex entry" trend. Either they are going to have to break that position or the internet is going to WAAAGH!!!

SW gets Russ to stand against Magnus again. The empire then have 2 primarchs against 2 traitor primarchs. Then they will save further primarchs for future editions, for suspense.

SW will get wolfy primaris units that are unique to the SW. Especially a SW form of reivers (better CC options, but no grav chute), intercessors (better at CC) and hellblasters (with helfrost weapon option). They wont get inceptors or aggressors.

And/or

SW primaris characters (wolf lord, rune priest and wolf priest).

For the record, I'm pretty sure they said Gang War 2 was going to be 'absolutely packed', too.

 lolman1c wrote:
It's not even that we will just lose half our HQ's (as mentioned above) we will eventually lose half our codex unless things get upgraded. The no model no rules will have a major effect on Orks over the next few years. You can already see GW slowly removing all metal and fail cast models.

If they removed metal models we would lose our Tank bustas and Kopptas.

Then fail cast goes. We lose our warboss, weirdboy, kommandos, big guns, buggies, trakks and more hqs...

Hell what would even be left in our codex? Because right now our big mek only has 1 model even on sale unless you buy a £40 mega nob set (then you get two useless models and have to buy another £40 set. So we could potentially end up with only 1 hq left in the next few years unless they are updated!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:

fe40k wrote:

SM players of a certain color marine: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? It’s not like I could use any of the 9 other colors of marine rules to represent my army. Heck, I can’t even use any of the other imperial armies rules and fluff them into my army either!
Xenos players: Man, why hasn’t my army come out yet? Look at these ZERO other books I can use to represent my armies rules, or draw my units from.

Seriously; no offense, everyone wants their army to come out - but just tell your friend to use a different chapters book, and paint his Marines gray.

Space Wolves are winter melee/close range shooting units - just use feting blood angels rules for the core, man. Frothy, rage-overtaken melee centered army? Basically what your friend is looking for.

People have zero creativity or adaption.

Wow, thanks! That’s super helpful! Now I realise how I can just counts-as my Thunderwolf Cavalry! And my Ravenwing Black Knights! And my Sanguinary Guard! And my Crusader Squads!

If you’re going to be snarky at least be right.

That works lot better than using say orks with blood angel rules. Point being wolf player# have that option to get codex power while waiting for wolf codex and indeed using different marine codexes with same marine models is this age normal

On one hand, yes. There is nothing to stop wolf players splitting up their force and dedicating their marine to one chapter (be it ultra or blood) and then have their wolves be a different detachment and still have space wolves keywords.
One the other, we cannot expect players to spend £30 on a rule book they won't even use in the future. That's just a scummy gw move.

However, as i keep saying with my sign that says "the end is neigh". Space wolves players don't have to worry about half their army disappearing. Hell, as i keep saying, two of the primary HQ for 90% of ork armies (big mek with kff and mek on bike with kff) don't have models! There is a very likely chance (given the evidence) our only defence is about to vanish forever unless we fork out £40 or spend big bucks on a Morkanaut. Gw could outright remove one of the most iconic units of our codex unless it gets a model! This is why i don't give a squig about prime orks or beast ghaz... because right now our units that we already own are in danger of being useless and left behind in an index that will one day be out dated.

maybe just maybe stop fretting? so far the things that are being removed are things like "X on a bike" I can't think of any say... troop options that are codex only.

as for space wolves, they are pretty differant from the other marine chapters. easily the most divergent. so no you can't really just run them as vanilla marines. not without losing a lot of what makes space wolves space wolves. I'm curious how primaris HQs will be handled, partiuclarly chapolains/apocatharies

 Vankraken wrote:
Orks need models for KFF Big Mek, Big Mek on Bike, Painboy on Bike, Warboss on Bike, and Mega Armored Warboss. I highly doubt they are going to release 5 HQ kits in one go so it will be interesting to see how they handle their whole "no model, no codex entry" trend. Either they are going to have to break that position or the internet is going to WAAAGH!!!

Then the internet will be sad.
The odds of there being a bike character are low - the odds of a multi kit which covers a warboss, big mek, painboy - and weird boy (because... why not) are almost none.
So yeah, no models, no codex entry.

 Vankraken wrote:

Orks need models for KFF Big Mek, Big Mek on Bike, Painboy on Bike, Warboss on Bike, and Mega Armored Warboss. I highly doubt they are going to release 5 HQ kits in one go so it will be interesting to see how they handle their whole "no model, no codex entry" trend. Either they are going to have to break that position or the internet is going to WAAAGH!!!

This probably won't happen, but the could make one big HQ multi-part kit. Include the following:
4x nob-sized torsos, 4x nob walking legs, 1x nob biker legs
1x warboss torso, 1x warboss walking legs, 1x warboss biker legs
1x large warbike

Then have the bits to make the following:
Big Mek (with optional KFF)
Painboy
Weirdboy
Nob with Waaagh Banner
Warboss

That way we could make one of each of manyof our HQ and Elite characters, and have the option of putting them on bikes. They could even give us options that weren't in the Index, like a Weird Boy or Banner Nob on a bike. Heck, throw in a few more bits and we could have all sorts of things like giving HQs and Elite characters with jump packs, or things that have never existed before.

They could charge a lot of money for such a kit and the would still be a good value.

What’s the deal with space wolves being “different”?

I mean - as a Xenos player, I don’t know, so I’m asking; what makes the wolves so unique amongst SM chapters that you can’t make do just using the rules for another? What is lost in that transition?

fe40k wrote:


Tell me what those units bring to the table that's so unique they can't be represented by other model's rules; I'm curious.

Yeah in hindsight that came out way rougher than intended. Moving on...

The point stands though. Thunderwolf Cavalry with Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields - a common loadout since it’s been powerful for a while - bring a fast, tough delivery system for the TH/SS plus the extra attacks from the wolf.

Ravenwing Black Knights bring veteran bike models with a hammer and plasma weapon.

Sanguinary Guard bring Jump Pack Veterans with a 2+(/5++?), unique pistols and the ability to have a flying banner.

Crusader squads bring the ability to give Marine troops a mixed ranged/close combat loadout and the combination of 3+ and 4+ armoured models in one unit.

Those were the low-hanging fruit but there are plenty of others like Baal Predators and Cenobyte Servitors.

maybe just maybe stop fretting? so far the things that are being removed are things like "X on a bike" I can't think of any say... troop options that are codex only.

X on bike is all our hqs for our evil sunz armies! It would be like white scars but worse because there would be 0 hq options.

fe40k wrote:
What’s the deal with space wolves being “different”?

I mean - as a Xenos player, I don’t know, so I’m asking; what makes the wolves so unique amongst SM chapters that you can’t make do just using the rules for another? What is lost in that transition?

The overwhelming majority of Chapters follow a structure outlined in the Codex Astartes. It basically says they’ll have ten companies of a hundred active Marines each. Five of those will be the main fighting companies, one will be veterans, one will be junior/scouts, and the remaining three will be reserve/specialist companies.The fighting companies are made up of 10 units of 10 men. The 10 units are made up of a mix of Tactical, Devastator and Assault Squads.

Some Chapters don’t follow this structure. The two that famously deviate the most are Space Wolves and Black Templars (there are others, but those two are the famous ones that really diverge). First up, they don’t use Tactical, Assault and Devastator Squads, so on a unit level the structure breaks down for them. They don’t use a Scout Company or a Veteran Company, so on a company level it breaks down. They don’t have ten companies, so on a Chapter level it breaks down. Furthermore, they have unique units like Thunderwolf Cavalry that other Chapters don’t have an equivalent for.

fe40k wrote:
What’s the deal with space wolves being “different”?

I mean - as a Xenos player, I don’t know, so I’m asking; what makes the wolves so unique amongst SM chapters that you can’t make do just using the rules for another? What is lost in that transition?

The Wolves don't have the traditional unit roles of Vanilla Marines. Their entry level units are Bloodclaws (on foot), Skyclaws (Jump Packs), and Swiftclaws (Bikes) which are generally close combat focused infantry in power armor who typically lack the expert melee and shooting skill of the more experienced/disciplined space marines. Their main infantry are grey hunters which are similar to tactical marines except they can take two specialist weapons but no heavy weapons plus they can also take chainswords along with their bolt gun and pistol. Scouts and Long Fangs (Devastators) are basically veterans where as in vanilla marines they are typically the lesser experienced marines. In gameplay terms scouts have a veteran marine stat line while for long fangs they basically at like vanilla devs but can't take as many "bodies" to soak wounds but had a split fire rule back in earlier editions. The elite wolves are called Wolf Guard and are generally a lot more customizable than their vanilla equivalent but lacked the special issue ammo of Sternguard, the characters found in command squads, or the charge benefits that vanguard vets got. Wolves also don't have many of the HQs that vanilla marines get so instead of having a chaplain or apothecary, the wolves have a wolf priest which is a bit of both. The wolves don't have a "chapter master" but had basically two types of captains with the Wolf Lord being the expensive one while the Wolf Guard Battle Leader being the mini captain.

In general the Wolves lack a lot of the variants in vehicles that vanilla marines have as well as lacking any access to grav weapons. The wolves do have additional variants of melee weapons with the wolf claw typically being a better version of the lightning claw while also having frost axe/swords that where two handed and slighting more powerful versions of power axes/swords. On top of that they have completely new units such as Thunder Cav, Wulfen, Fenresian wolves, Santa's sled (Logan Grimnar's chariot thing), and the Stormwolf/Stormfang. (Notice the massive amount of wolf and wolf related things in their naming conventions).

 lolman1c wrote:

On one hand, yes. There is nothing to stop wolf players splitting up their force and dedicating their marine to one chapter (be it ultra or blood) and then have their wolves be a different detachment and still have space wolves keywords.
One the other, we cannot expect players to spend £30 on a rule book they won't even use in the future. That's just a scummy gw move.

Actually they can use those codexes later. Just as there's people codex hopping between games now they can do that as well.

Switching codex on what is most beneficitial for next army list is what GW designed marines for for few editions now.

My expectation:

Orks and Space Wolves get their Codexes over the next couple of months. They have a bunch of stratagems, points changes, weapon updates, warlord traits, relics, etc. Orks get no new models. Space Wolves get a Primaris Lieutenant kit.

Done. No Russ. No Primeork. Nada. It'll be just like the Blood Angels/Dark Angels release for the Space Wolves, and just like the myriad xenos for the Orks.

Then Genestealer Cult will get about 5-6 new kits with their new Codex and that'll be it, GW will have fulfilled their promise in updating all of the 7th edition Codexes into 8th, and then some.

Then we'll roll right into a Slaanesh release, mixed in with a few things for Age of Sigmar, and that'll take us all the way to the end of the year and Ork and Space Wolf players will be sitting there like "Wait... seriously? We waited all this time... for this?"

And then 2019 we'll get Sisters of Battle.

No I think there will be a new starter box.

Hasn't AoS gotten a new starter box every year?

Then again I don't know when it came out but "Soul wars" is the 3rd starter set for AoS.

So it might not be out of the question for there to be a SW VS Ork box. But it's also pretty close to forge bane, but that's a whole other mess.

My expectations are a new wave of primaris, then Ghazgul and maybe russ. And there's no way there'll be a Slaanesh release in the fall lol. Mainly because Guilliman fighting off 3 Daemon Primarchs is laughable and I love my Ultramarines

I'm going to indulge in some mostly baseless speculation:

We're not going to get an Orks vs Spacewolves boxed set. We're going to get an Orks vs GSC "Octarius" boxed set that's more along the lines of Forgbane and Renegade.

They mentioned that Space Wolves and Orks are next, but GSC are after that. They could include a GSC upgrade sprue for every Ork kit. That way it could be assembled as a two-player game, but if a person is really looking to collect one army or the other they won't have to bother with splitting the box. It would also give them a whole nother faction (Ork GSC) in one fell swoop.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
You know you can still use the index for non-codex models right?

You know that the index point costs and weapon options are wildly outdated compared to their codex counterparts right?

Yes, but they're still there. Other factions have to make do. I was making the point that you're not 'losing' them. Nothing is even confirmed yet and people are complaining about losing units.

phillv85 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
You know you can still use the index for non-codex models right?

You know that the index point costs and weapon options are wildly outdated compared to their codex counterparts right?

Yes, but they're still there. Other factions have to make do. I was making the point that you're not 'losing' them. Nothing is even confirmed yet and people are complaining about losing units.

If something is so outdated that it's not playable then it might as well be lost. People are voicing their worries about losing models, they aren't complaining about losing them because that is impossible until the codex is released and entries are cut.

As lolman said above, this might not mean much for you Imperial players but if we don't get representation for our HQs in bikes it throws out a very popular army faction in Evil Sunz.

Also if we get no new models after such a long wait it'll only confirm what GWs thoughts are regarding Orks and it'll push many Ork players away. If 'new' GW treats Orks exactly the same as old GW nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned. Which will leave a nasty taste in the mouth given all those promises.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
I'm going to indulge in some mostly baseless speculation:

We're not going to get an Orks vs Spacewolves boxed set. We're going to get an Orks vs GSC "Octarius" boxed set that's more along the lines of Forgbane and Renegade.

They mentioned that Space Wolves and Orks are next, but GSC are after that. They could include a GSC upgrade sprue for every Ork kit. That way it could be assembled as a two-player game, but if a person is really looking to collect one army or the other they won't have to bother with splitting the box. It would also give them a whole nother faction (Ork GSC) in one fell swoop.

A detailed analysis of the Octarius campaign would be amazing! Tyranids vs Orks! A real xenos fight! Two horde armies fighting untilmone of them comes out tpp with each faction designed to adapt! I was actually disappointed with the octaris campaign ending... Orks are meant to adapt and grow just as much as tyranids but they often made orks look like mindless idiots... when really, as the war would go on, Orks would increase in intelligence and strategy as well as numbers as their genetics kick in to fight against a real enemy for once. So hope to see something like this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

phillv85 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
You know you can still use the index for non-codex models right?

You know that the index point costs and weapon options are wildly outdated compared to their codex counterparts right?

Yes, but they're still there. Other factions have to make do. I was making the point that you're not 'losing' them. Nothing is even confirmed yet and people are complaining about losing units.

If something is so outdated that it's not playable then it might as well be lost. People are voicing their worries about losing models, they aren't complaining about losing them because that is impossible until the codex is released and entries are cut.

As lolman said above, this might not mean much for you Imperial players but if we don't get representation for our HQs in bikes it throws out a very popular army faction in Evil Sunz.

Also if we get no new models after such a long wait it'll only confirm what GWs thoughts are regarding Orks and it'll push many Ork players away. If 'new' GW treats Orks exactly the same as old GW nothing has changed as far as I'm concerned. Which will leave a nasty taste in the mouth given all those promises.

In my mind, if we also lose our mega armour warboss we also lose a lot of Bad Moonz armies. I'm not saying we will... i'm saying that it's very likely. The odds of GW replacing every HQ is very unlikely but the odds of GW removing them in high. You guys do maths all the time... and the maths say we should prepare for the worst and if we do get anything that would just make us more happy. Let me say it this way, as English suggested, if the codex doesn't have these units then they're ticking time bombs. At any moment the Index could become widely outdated to the point we cannot even use it. Hell, for all we know in 2 years GW could bring out 9th edition and boom, index gone forever along with the majority of our armies. Plus, you wait all this time and find out just because you picked units that gw previously encouraged you to pick, suddenly you don't get an update while every other ork player does.

And shut up with the whole "other armies have to deal with this". This in no way excuses GW if they do this! If anything it would proves there is a huge flaw right now in GW that needs to be fixed! They would rather delte units that people used for years just so a 3rd party doesn't make a few extra £££ than make anything other than primaris marines.

That sounds a lot like complaining to me.

phillv85 wrote:
That sounds a lot like complaining to me.

And? I want to complain in hopes that what is say is wrong. You got a problem with that?

Complaining about GW removing white scar units from a codex is also a valid complaint. I personally have s friend who spent weeks making custom white scar units that are jo longer in the codex. He knows that soon these units will disappear for good. Is that wrong to complain about that?

 lolman1c wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
That sounds a lot like complaining to me.

And? I want to complain in hopes that what is say is wrong. You got a problem with that?

you're fixating so hard on the negitives you'r going to ensure dissappointment IMHO.

BrianDavion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
That sounds a lot like complaining to me.

And? I want to complain in hopes that what is say is wrong. You got a problem with that?

you're fixating so hard on the negitives you'r going to ensure dissappointment IMHO.

How? If I fix on negatives and I actually don't lose my units then I and many ork players will be happy.

As you can tell from my profile picture I am an Evil Sunz player. The idea my army could be hit hard just because GW decided to make a new knight rather than an essential Ork HQ does make me a worried. And there is plenty of evidence to suggest this might happen. Hell, even if we did get a plastic version of every model in our entire codex, that still doesn't excuse the fact other armies lost units because GW didn't want to make new models for them.

phillv85 wrote:
That sounds a lot like complaining to me.

You sound a lot like a troll to me. Care to leave the discussion to people who actually want to discuss the topic?

 lolman1c wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
That sounds a lot like complaining to me.

And? I want to complain in hopes that what is say is wrong. You got a problem with that?

Complaining about GW removing white scar units from a codex is also a valid complaint. I personally have s friend who spent weeks making custom white scar units that are jo longer in the codex. He knows that soon these units will disappear for good. Is that wrong to complain about that?

If I had a problem with complaining I wouldn't be on this forum. If you read who I quoted, they said nobody was complaining....

phillv85 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
That sounds a lot like complaining to me.

And? I want to complain in hopes that what is say is wrong. You got a problem with that?

Complaining about GW removing white scar units from a codex is also a valid complaint. I personally have s friend who spent weeks making custom white scar units that are jo longer in the codex. He knows that soon these units will disappear for good. Is that wrong to complain about that?

If I had a problem with complaining I wouldn't be on this forum. If you read who I quoted, they said nobody was complaining....

No, I said nobody was complaining about losing models, as you incorrectly stated.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
That sounds a lot like complaining to me.

You sound a lot like a troll to me. Care to leave the discussion to people who actually want to discuss the topic?

You mean people who want to get wound up about a codex that hasn't been released yet? Sure, have at it, I'll leave you to your unwarranted outrage.

Didn't he qoute me? I never said I wasn't complaining and I also used a lot of Ifs in my sentence. I msde sure to put the ifs in in case people said I was complaining right now. I'm preparing mah complaining so I can be hapoy if we get something and say sorry to yall... or say 'i told you so'. Win win for me...

Also it's my thread. If people do not get needlessly wound up in my thread the it's not a very good dakkadakka thread! But what we should complain about is the game, not each other. If you want to counter our argument to give us hope then show us ways gw might give us new models... don't just yell at us to stop typing.

phillv85 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
That sounds a lot like complaining to me.

You sound a lot like a troll to me. Care to leave the discussion to people who actually want to discuss the topic?

You mean people who want to get wound up about a codex that hasn't been released yet? Sure, have at it, I'll leave you to your unwarranted outrage.

Nah, I mean people who want to discuss the contents of the codex and their hopes/concerns with it. Y'know, the topic.

So aparntly (according to this rumour here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347927-heavy-salt-rumors-gene-stealer-cult-reddit-rumors/)

The GSC will lose most their units as well. People on that thread are totally okay with it but I have no idea why. Screw balance and lore... it it means people will lose hundreds of pounds worth kf models then it's just not fair for those people who had fun and never harmed anyone untill GW decided they want to ruin their fun. Really super hope this is a rumour.

I'm actually mainly complaining about people's reactions here. They're okay with this but would love to see their reaction if Gw came in and said ig troops could never be taken because they're painted blue.... or if GW said every marine but ultramarines painted like Ultramarines were now banned.

People are more cool with it because they understand that making an army called ‘Imperial Guard’, and then making another army ‘Imperial Guard + 1’ isn’t a spectacularly good idea. It’s an uncharacteristically good balance decision by GW over sheer profiteering and it’s being rightly praised.

Also, that board isn’t as dauntingly negative as this one...

 lolman1c wrote:
So aparntly (according to this rumour here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/347927-heavy-salt-rumors-gene-stealer-cult-reddit-rumors/)

The GSC will lose most their units as well. People on that thread are totally okay with it but I have no idea why. Screw balance and lore... it it means people will lose hundreds of pounds worth kf models then it's just not fair for those people who had fun and never harmed anyone untill GW decided they want to ruin their fun. Really super hope this is a rumour.

I'm actually mainly complaining about people's reactions here. They're okay with this but would love to see their reaction if Gw came in and said ig troops could never be taken because they're painted blue.... or if GW said every marine but ultramarines painted like Ultramarines were now banned.

Isnt it mostly "competetive" players that takes ogryns and baneblades with their gsc? My stealer cult didnt lose choce.

Back on topic, i am sure orks will lose a number of option ant that the codex will suck, on the other hand there is always hope i guess...

kombatwombat wrote:
People are more cool with it because they understand that making an army called ‘Imperial Guard’, and then making another army ‘Imperial Guard + 1’ isn’t a spectacularly good idea. It’s an uncharacteristically good balance decision by GW over sheer profiteering and it’s being rightly praised.

Also, that board isn’t as dauntingly negative as this one...

Isn't the Imperial Guards +1 the Marine codex? You don't see them been banned from taking a baneblade.

How the hell is destroying people's armies a "spectacularly good idea"? People worked hard and spent a lot of money on those armies! And they suddenly lose all that because at tournaments maybe a few GSC brought units you wouldn't even see at a tournament anyway? To me (If gw did this) it would be like GW suddenly announcing tomorrow that half of your army was now illegal dispite you playing it for years.

This would be an overly lazy move! you can make it where you don't just have a IG clone army but at the same time don't make hundreds of pounds worth of people's collections illegal. Gw advertised these models as playable but now they have the money it's just gone?

 lolman1c wrote:


How the hell is destroying people's armies a "spectacularly good idea"? People worked hard and spent a lot of money on those armies! And they suddenly lose all that because at tournaments maybe a few GSC brought units you wouldn't even see at a tournament anyway? To me (If gw did this) it would be like GW suddenly announcing tomorrow that half of your army was now illegal dispite you playing it for years.

How is this any different from someone who went and bought as many storm ravens as possible and now they can't cap objectives and are limited to 3?

If you want to use whatever you want stay out of matched play.

kombatwombat wrote:
People are more cool with it because they understand that making an army called ‘Imperial Guard’, and then making another army ‘Imperial Guard + 1’ isn’t a spectacularly good idea. It’s an uncharacteristically good balance decision by GW over sheer profiteering and it’s being rightly praised.

Also, that board isn’t as dauntingly negative as this one...

You're right, GSC+IG+Tyranids is so much more +1 than;

IG+Admech+SM+BA+DA+Deathwatch+GK+SW+Custodes+SoB+IK+Assassins+misc.

Tyranids taking a Baneblade or some Leman Russ' wasn't busted; otherwise you'd see it at all the top tables - no, it was just fun, and fluffy.

I'm against removing options just for the sake of "diversity" - because that just doesn't make any sense. If you're talking about "balance", well - are you really trying to claim GW knows ANYTHING about balance or design?

fe40k wrote:
are you really trying to claim GW knows ANYTHING about balance or design?

They've hit quite a few good notes. How many codexes have been absolutely bad? Do you see where making a hyperbolic blanket claim like that might cause you to paint yourself in a corner?

 lolman1c wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:
People are more cool with it because they understand that making an army called ‘Imperial Guard’, and then making another army ‘Imperial Guard + 1’ isn’t a spectacularly good idea. It’s an uncharacteristically good balance decision by GW over sheer profiteering and it’s being rightly praised.

Also, that board isn’t as dauntingly negative as this one...

Isn't the Imperial Guards +1 the Marine codex? You don't see them been banned from taking a baneblade.

How the hell is destroying people's armies a "spectacularly good idea"? People worked hard and spent a lot of money on those armies! And they suddenly lose all that because at tournaments maybe a few GSC brought units you wouldn't even see at a tournament anyway? To me (If gw did this) it would be like GW suddenly announcing tomorrow that half of your army was now illegal dispite you playing it for years.

This would be an overly lazy move! you can make it where you don't just have a IG clone army but at the same time don't make hundreds of pounds worth of people's collections illegal. Gw advertised these models as playable but now they have the money it's just gone?

given what we know about the reasoning behind why GSC can take guard limiting them to basic guard and not letting them take comissars and scions makes perfect sense to me.

Kerep your army thematic to the fluff and you're less likely to have issues

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:


How the hell is destroying people's armies a "spectacularly good idea"? People worked hard and spent a lot of money on those armies! And they suddenly lose all that because at tournaments maybe a few GSC brought units you wouldn't even see at a tournament anyway? To me (If gw did this) it would be like GW suddenly announcing tomorrow that half of your army was now illegal dispite you playing it for years.

How is this any different from someone who went and bought as many storm ravens as possible and now they can't cap objectives and are limited to 3?

If you want to use whatever you want stay out of matched play.

Are you insane? There is so much difference! For one, you can still use the storm ravens.. They're not an illegal troop in matched play. Secondly, the 3 rule thing is for tournaments not matched play. Finally, you can sell you ravens and still keep 3 to be used... if a GSC IG army become illegal then you ain't gunu be able to shift that.

Now any GSC player (if these rule come out) can't use most of the stuff they painted. This is not even about baneblades... it's about common units every GSC army probably had. This is even bigger than our hq crap because GW does sell conversion sprues! They encourage it! I saw someone on that forums who just painted a fun fluffy scions cult army. Basically, at this point, he just wasted his money and time if this comes 8ut.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:
People are more cool with it because they understand that making an army called ‘Imperial Guard’, and then making another army ‘Imperial Guard + 1’ isn’t a spectacularly good idea. It’s an uncharacteristically good balance decision by GW over sheer profiteering and it’s being rightly praised.

Also, that board isn’t as dauntingly negative as this one...

Isn't the Imperial Guards +1 the Marine codex? You don't see them been banned from taking a baneblade.

How the hell is destroying people's armies a "spectacularly good idea"? People worked hard and spent a lot of money on those armies! And they suddenly lose all that because at tournaments maybe a few GSC brought units you wouldn't even see at a tournament anyway? To me (If gw did this) it would be like GW suddenly announcing tomorrow that half of your army was now illegal dispite you playing it for years.

This would be an overly lazy move! you can make it where you don't just have a IG clone army but at the same time don't make hundreds of pounds worth of people's collections illegal. Gw advertised these models as playable but now they have the money it's just gone?

given what we know about the reasoning behind why GSC can take guard limiting them to basic guard and not letting them take comissars and scions makes perfect sense to me.

Kerep your army thematic to the fluff and you're less likely to have issues

Yes... because my pink ultramarins scout army with imperial fist logos taking Gull face man is fluffy and thematic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Next up... Grey knights.... don't like um, basically custodes -1. Might as well get rid of them... you kmow... for balance reasons. Huh, those Emperor's Children are basically Khorne Marines... might as well cut them out to cut down the chaos codex.

Hell, let's just remove every faction but ultramarines. Everything not a marine and not painted bluenis jow illegal so we can balance this game! Also Papa Smurf is now 27 points.

 fraser1191 wrote:
I hope there's more Space wolf units with Wolf in the title

What about Murderfang, who is armed with murderclaws?

Ice_can wrote:
If space furries get Russ forget anyone else getting viable spacemarines before 9th edition.

To be fair, Wolves are so bottom of the barrel right now that you literally have to scrape them off the floor.

Also I would consider Dark Angels more than viable, to be honest, while BAs are still more than decent.

 sfshilo wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I hope there's more Space wolf units with Wolf in the title

What about Murderfang, who is armed with murderclaws?

Does he still have murderlust?

I think GW hate Space Wolves but don't want to squat them.

I definitely feel sympathy for Space Wolf players when it comes to having to wait so long for a codex. I also agree to an extent with Space Wolves getting more unique units than other chapters. My reason for the latter statement is that in an interview one of the GW writers (Gave Thorpe, I think) explained that Blood Angles, Dark Angles, Ultramarines and Space Wolves got the most attention because they exemplified certain dichotomies. It went something like this:
Blood Angels are spiritually pure, but physically corrupt.
Dark Angels are physically pure, but spiritually corrupt.
Ultramarines are completely conventional.
Space Wolves are completely unconventional.

The above statement does make a certain amount of sense to me, and following that Space Wolves getting more unique units makes sense if they are supposed to be the exemplars of being uncoventional Space Marines.
(This is just one off-hand statement I hear in a podcast. I'm not trying to say it's definitive, just that the logic of it makes sense to me.)

However, it does drive me a bit crazy when some SM players from the special snowflake chapters say something along the lines of "[insert chapter/csm legion] doesn't need their own codex. They're too vanilla for that."* I'm definitely not super-familiar with every SM chapter and CSM legion, but the ones I have dug into have tons of cool unique stuff in the lore that never makes it to the tabletop. I'm most familiar with the Iron Warriors and they could easily fill out a book and model range of their own.
*Nobody in this thread said that, it's just something I've seen a bunch of times.

Of course the Xenos factions and IG should have way more diversity than the myriad different flavors of power armored super humans that we get, if we were going closer to the lore. Power armored super humans are the most popular, and therefore the most profitable, and therefore get the most attention from GW. I'm mostly fine with that, but I do think that attention from GW in terms of rules, stories and especially models does itself drive popularity to an extent. I do think this has caused a bit of a feedback loop in terms of sales and new releases.

 lolman1c wrote:


Are you insane?

Quite literally not.

There is so much difference! For one, you can still use the storm ravens.. They're not an illegal troop in matched play. Secondly, the 3 rule thing is for tournaments not matched play. Finally, you can sell you ravens and still keep 3 to be used... if a GSC IG army become illegal then you ain't gunu be able to shift that.

What's the difference between 6 stormravens and 3 stormravens? 3 models you had to sell.
What's the difference between 1 shadowsword and 0 shadowswords? 1 model you had to sell.

Now any GSC player (if these rule come out) can't use most of the stuff they painted.

Common units like infantry, LRBTs, tank/company commanders, sentinels, and chimeras? Because all of those are there.

This is not even about baneblades... it's about common units every GSC army probably had. This is even bigger than our hq crap because GW does sell conversion sprues! They encourage it!

Yea, it pretty much is. The one scions guy who is your standard bearer for this (which is absolutely not fluffy) can still use his models as neophytes or play stylized AM.

Those units were not in the GSC codex - I am suspect people rushed out and built entire IG armies based on the index.

And if they did just play full guard instead. Problem solved.

With that said I have quite a bit of salt. Lets say you have the GSC codex - is this shot of brood brothers really the thing you would leak?

Okay first off stop saying that something is illegal due to its paint job, that's the weakest argument you can make.
Second, everyone's (except maybe Eldar and necrons?) been burned by the transition. I lost access to some bike options, I bought bikes ready to make some biker characters. Granted I still can but have to use the index, which is on borrowed time.

But frankly I feel nothing for you if you went out and bought a bunch of units you didn't have access to from guard in 7th and now you're not going to have access to them after the change to 8th.

Tyel wrote:
With that said I have quite a bit of salt. Lets say you have the GSC codex - is this shot of brood brothers really the thing you would leak?

The person probably doesn't have the codex. Sharing other more detailed info could point out who leaked the info and get them into trouble.

 fraser1191 wrote:
But frankly I feel nothing for you if you went out and bought a bunch of units you didn't have access to from guard in 7th and now you're not going to have access to them after the change to 8th.

Really dude?. Take someone like me, i've played Orks since 3th Edition, that is 10 years of collecting Orks right?
If his fears are correct, and GW are following the trend with 'No miniature, no codex entry' my 'Evil Sunz' army would loose way too much of their HQ options to be viable. I would actually end up with a ton of figurines that i can never use.

I understand peoples fears, it's really not fun to think that the army you worked countless hours, and spend a huge load of money on, can end up being wasted. Because of bad decisions.

I don't feel the same fear as many do, but i can understand it. I think the Ork release will be good for us, but GW have of course disappointed us in the past. But i choose to believe. What more can we do?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Tyel wrote:
With that said I have quite a bit of salt. Lets say you have the GSC codex - is this shot of brood brothers really the thing you would leak?

The person probably doesn't have the codex. Sharing other more detailed info could point out who leaked the info and get them into trouble.

Sure, usually people get the codex (I guess a week before pre-order, hence the day 0 previews), shares a couple of screenshots with a small circle and one of them leaks.
See for instance the Harlequin points leaks a few days before the original release as a good example.

Since I wouldn't have thought GSC are coming out for 2 months this would imply someone near the printers - but again, is this really the thing you would leak?

Also 3rd edition came out 20 years ago - and I can sympathise a bit with "I can't use my models" but I don't really get why GW alone is meant to resist obsolescence.
If you built that biker painboy in 2008 for 4th edition nob biker abuse then you have had a good run even if they finally say "its over" come 9th edition.

So back to the topic.

I know it was a long shot but the rumoured "new" Ghazzy/walker pic in the most recent White Dwarf has now been confirmed to be a conversion beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Makes me worried Orks are getting sweet FA this release apart from a book that could've been delivered 6 months ago.

Where's all the rumours at? We had rumours of new Knights way before they dropped. We also had rumours of rules for most other codexes way before they dropped (remember Necron entire dex leak), where is the noise around Orks?

All I'm seeing is wish listing from one camp and pessimism from another. Absolutely nothing concrete.

The not-knowing is killing me!

E - for those struggling with the issue around removing our models for which there is no official model. Imagine if they just removed Blood Angels or Deathwing or whatever from the codexes. That is the equivalent if Evil Sunz are not made playable.

Tyel wrote:
Also 3rd edition came out 20 years ago - and I can sympathise a bit with "I can't use my models" but I don't really get why GW alone is meant to resist obsolescence.
If you built that biker painboy in 2008 for 4th edition nob biker abuse then you have had a good run even if they finally say "its over" come 9th edition.

True, i had fun back in 4th Ed when Orks were pretty strong and i had my bikes with a Warboss and Painboy on them, without a doubt.
But the issue here is not that i want them to be as strong again nor viable, i can live with them being mediocre, even below mediocre. I just want to field them again because they are fun, instead of them never being in my codex and never play them again.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Where's all the rumours at? We had rumours of new Knights way before they dropped. We also had rumours of rules for most other codexes way before they dropped (remember Necron entire dex leak), where is the noise around Orks?

All I'm seeing is wish listing from one camp and pessimism from another. Absolutely nothing concrete.

The not-knowing is killing me!

Thats what im saying. I check the news and rumors section frequently hoping for a thread about ork rumors to no avail :(

That being said we havnt heard anything about SW either and dont know which codex will be first...

 Billagio wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Where's all the rumours at? We had rumours of new Knights way before they dropped. We also had rumours of rules for most other codexes way before they dropped (remember Necron entire dex leak), where is the noise around Orks?

All I'm seeing is wish listing from one camp and pessimism from another. Absolutely nothing concrete.

The not-knowing is killing me!

Thats what im saying. I check the news and rumors section frequently hoping for a thread about ork rumors to no avail :(

That being said we havnt heard anything about SW either and dont know which codex will be first...

Yup, it's kind of worrying....

Also doing the same thing lol.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
So back to the topic.

I know it was a long shot but the rumoured "new" Ghazzy/walker pic in the most recent White Dwarf has now been confirmed to be a conversion beyond any shadow of a doubt.

Makes me worried Orks are getting sweet FA this release apart from a book that could've been delivered 6 months ago.

Where's all the rumours at? We had rumours of new Knights way before they dropped. We also had rumours of rules for most other codexes way before they dropped (remember Necron entire dex leak), where is the noise around Orks?

All I'm seeing is wish listing from one camp and pessimism from another. Absolutely nothing concrete.

The not-knowing is killing me!

E - for those struggling with the issue around removing our models for which there is no official model. Imagine if they just removed Blood Angels or Deathwing or whatever from the codexes. That is the equivalent if Evil Sunz are not made playable.

was the ghazzy/walker belived to be anything more then a conversion by anyone other then BOLS?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Where's all the rumours at? We had rumours of new Knights way before they dropped. We also had rumours of rules for most other codexes way before they dropped (remember Necron entire dex leak), where is the noise around Orks?

All I'm seeing is wish listing from one camp and pessimism from another. Absolutely nothing concrete.

The not-knowing is killing me!

Thats what im saying. I check the news and rumors section frequently hoping for a thread about ork rumors to no avail :(

That being said we havnt heard anything about SW either and dont know which codex will be first...

Yup, it's kind of worrying....

Also doing the same thing lol.

It kind of is, but I just got back into 40k after a hiatus so I havnt really been following how quickly rumors pop up for a codex after its been announced. If the Ork codex wont come out until early July, thats still a good month or so away, plenty of time to get rumors. If its the second codex then were probably looking at late July or August, in which case thats almost two months, a bit early for concrete rumors, right?

 Warboss ZanZag wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
But frankly I feel nothing for you if you went out and bought a bunch of units you didn't have access to from guard in 7th and now you're not going to have access to them after the change to 8th.

Really dude?. Take someone like me, i've played Orks since 3th Edition, that is 10 years of collecting Orks right?
If his fears are correct, and GW are following the trend with 'No miniature, no codex entry' my 'Evil Sunz' army would loose way too much of their HQ options to be viable. I would actually end up with a ton of figurines that i can never use.

I understand peoples fears, it's really not fun to think that the army you worked countless hours, and spend a huge load of money on, can end up being wasted. Because of bad decisions.

I don't feel the same fear as many do, but i can understand it. I think the Ork release will be good for us, but GW have of course disappointed us in the past. But i choose to believe. What more can we do?

Wow. That's in the context of a GSC player buying scions cause he had access to them in the index then losing them when the codex drops. Yeah it sucks but GSC never had them before and they had a short lived codex in 7th so I would have played it safe and not got unit like that

But as far as Orks losing warbosses on bikes, it blows. White scars players lost their named HQ on a bike because the model wasn't on one. No tech marine on bike, apothecaries, librarians, chaplains so again. Yes it sucks that warbosses on bikes are probably gonna disappear given the trend, but a GSC player losing out on something he gained from a keyword, nothing.

Overall I'm optimistic for the Ork codex. I think that there will be at least one (and probably several) viable builds for competitive play. I think there will also be flavorful rules for most units for more narrative play.

I do have concerns about things being cut. I think they are valid concerns, but I'm not going to flip out before seeing what's in the actual book.

I have two other concerns that I thought about making a thread about.

One concern is that while new models would definitely be welcome, I hope they don't change the style so radically that previous models and art are jarringly out of place. I like the Ork aesthetic they been going with for the last twenty years or so.

My other concern is that I hope they don't remove the humor from the Orks. I've heard a lot of people say they don't like the humorous aspects of the Orks, but to me that's one of the most interesting things about them and without it they're just dumb Dark Eldar.

The thing that makes it interesting (and also pretty grimdark) is that the humor is all from the Ork's point of view (and the reader's point of view, depending in the story). To the average person in the galaxy the Orks aren't funny at all. They are big dumb Dark Eldar whole come in massive numbers to kill, torture, enslave, defile and eat everything in their path.

Shokk Attack Gunz are funny, but a Guardsman doesn't get to see the snotlings being sucked up. The Guardsman just sees his friends dying horribly as they are ripped apart from the inside. The Guardsman doesn't see the hilarious malfunction causing the SAG to explode. He migjt be dimly aware of an explosion in the distance but he's probably too focused on the four hundred pound bellowing green gorilla swinging a clever at his head to really know what happened let alone find the humor in the situation.

Orks certainly find it all funny. In many of the stories the humans think the Orks are roaring in anger, only to get closer and realize they are laughing. The Orks aren't taking themselves seriously and being laughed at by the reader and the Imperials. The Orks think it's all a gas and they're laughing at themselves (and everyone else). A core part of40k has been absurdist humor, and the Orks are in on the joke.

Ork humor is also incredibly grimdark, and almost always revolves around pain and death. An Ork will do things like slowly pull the limbs off a child because the Ork thinks the squirming and screaming are funny. The when it's finished the Ork will throw the child on the barbecue. It's really not funny. It's pretty horrifying. By our standards Orks are all violent sociopaths. They are the epitome of "it's just a prank, bro!" douchebags. It's fine to laugh at a lot of the humor in the Ork books. I laugh at it. It's often written in a way to make it more palatable. But when you really think about it, it should make you uncomfortable.

So I don't like it when I hear people wish that the comic relief aspect of Orks would be eliminated. To me that's kind of like saying Hannibal Lecter would be a better character if they got rid of his intelligence and charisma. One of the things that makes Orks interesting is that in some ways they are (intentionally) being goofballs out for a good time, but at the same time they are horrifying monsters.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Overall I'm optimistic for the Ork codex....snip....monsters.

I agree with this, one of the most horrifying aspects of Orks is their dark sense of humour and lack of self concern.

A core part of Ork representation is the humour and contrary to what many people think it's possible to have both their frightening power/animal savagery and their jovial, dark humour represented on the same model without it becoming ridiculous.

I also hope they don't take this away from the range, assuming we get any new models.

If you're deep on Ork lore hou know they're anything but savages. This is the joke.. people always under estimate them when they are just as advanced (if not more)than the Eldar because they're designed to already have an advanced tecknolgy knowhows before they are even born. People think that Ork meks ajust automatically have the trukk blue prints in his head but if this was the casr the every ork trukk in the lore woukd be the same... it isn't. Orks are very creative. They just have the lessons in their head not the blue prints. The old ones, korks or what ever the lore says now adays invented a weapon that in some way adapted to become self aware.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Overall I'm optimistic for the Ork codex....snip....monsters.

I agree with this, one of the most horrifying aspects of Orks is their dark sense of humour and lack of self concern.

A core part of Ork representation is the humour and contrary to what many people think it's possible to have both their frightening power/animal savagery and their jovial, dark humour represented on the same model without it becoming ridiculous.

I also hope they don't take this away from the range, assuming we get any new models.

I think the key is looking at the Orks as a race that is deadpan in their troll logic because to them it is what works and what makes sense to them. Orks don't see the universe the same way as other races and their reality bending collective beliefs allow them to operate in a way that wouldn't really work for other races. Those other races see the orks as a serious threat and don't find their quirks and crazyness to be comical because to them the Orks are a brutal threat. Its only through the lens of somebody not in the 40k universe do we get to see the humor of the Orks thinking red trukks go fasta instead of through the lens of a guardsman seeing said red trukk drive up and unload a small mob of hulking brutes ready to rip some heads off or fill everyone (and all the air around them) full of lead.

I find it funny how Orks can do anything they believe in but make their planes actually plausible. The Imperium make freaking flying babies and brick shaped aircraft.

I have a theory that most everything the Imperium does is made possible by latent psychic power, just like the Orks.

Edit: Which isn't to say that I don't believe that Orks don't make functional machines. I fall more into the "psychic grease" camp than the camp that thinks all Ork tech is totemic and none of it actually works. It's late and I'm having a hard time writing.

 lolman1c wrote:

kombatwombat wrote:
People are more cool with it because they understand that making an army called ‘Imperial Guard’, and then making another army ‘Imperial Guard + 1’ isn’t a spectacularly good idea. It’s an uncharacteristically good balance decision by GW over sheer profiteering and it’s being rightly praised.

Also, that board isn’t as dauntingly negative as this one...

Isn't the Imperial Guards +1 the Marine codex? You don't see them been banned from taking a baneblade.

How the hell is destroying people's armies a "spectacularly good idea"? People worked hard and spent a lot of money on those armies! And they suddenly lose all that because at tournaments maybe a few GSC brought units you wouldn't even see at a tournament anyway? To me (If gw did this) it would be like GW suddenly announcing tomorrow that half of your army was now illegal dispite you playing it for years.

This would be an overly lazy move! you can make it where you don't just have a IG clone army but at the same time don't make hundreds of pounds worth of people's collections illegal. Gw advertised these models as playable but now they have the money it's just gone?

Okay so what YOU would make so that genestealer cults would have access to same units and not be just IG "but with better thanks to tyranids they can now take".

Ie why take regular IG if you can take IG+tyranids.

tneva82 wrote:
Okay so what YOU would make so that genestealer cults would have access to same units and not be just IG "but with better thanks to tyranids they can now take".

Ie why take regular IG if you can take IG+tyranids.

Off topic slightly but this right here is a summary of the problem with Imperial soup.

Why take just X when I can take X + Y + Z and make my force better?

 lolman1c wrote:
I find it funny how Orks can do anything they believe in but make their planes actually plausible. The Imperium make freaking flying babies and brick shaped aircraft.

Theoretically anything that produces more lift than downforce will fly regardless of crappy aerodynamics if you just make the engines gratuitously powerful. If those engines can angle upwards like the Stormtalon or have additional vertical thrusters like the Stormraven then it’s much easier.

Which I think is a delightfully Imperial way of thinking.

‘You’re mad, that thing’ll never fly.’
‘It will if we put EVEN MOAR ENGINES ON IT!!’
‘...praise be to the Omnissiah!’

kombatwombat wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I find it funny how Orks can do anything they believe in but make their planes actually plausible. The Imperium make freaking flying babies and brick shaped aircraft.

Theoretically anything that produces more lift than downforce will fly regardless of crappy aerodynamics if you just make the engines gratuitously powerful. If those engines can angle upwards like the Stormtalon or have additional vertical thrusters like the Stormraven then it’s much easier.

Which I think is a delightfully Imperial way of thinking.

‘You’re mad, that thing’ll never fly.’
‘It will if we put EVEN MOAR ENGINES ON IT!!’
‘...praise be to the Omnissiah!’

Or! The only reason the universe is even held together is because of Orks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Okay so what YOU would make so that genestealer cults would have access to same units and not be just IG "but with better thanks to tyranids they can now take".

Ie why take regular IG if you can take IG+tyranids.

Off topic slightly but this right here is a summary of the problem with Imperial soup.

Why take just X when I can take X + Y + Z and make my force better?

Exsactly, why take IG when I can take IG with amazing Blood Angel CC units? I geuss he just doesn't want Xenos players to play with his plastic toys.
If it was up to me I'd say screw balance and just let any army ally with any army just their buffs can never effect each other. Because right now i don't know how any of your are Okay with GW letting armies like GK stay the way they are but are not okay with people who spent a lot of money on a lot of troops suddenly unable to use those troops. Hell, how are these people okay with gullfaceman backing up assassins only, or the 1k points of IG brought in every "marine list" for the last few tournaments and not be okay with GSC bringing a few extra toys?

It seems many of you forget that GSC players have brought things like baneblades and Orgyns in last edition as well... I just don't know what has happened to the community. Happy to see half a faction have a bad day just so they can't play with your toys.

LOOK AT THIS! Don't you ever dare skipp this spoiler!

This is what 40k is about! Not your stupid win streaks... 40k is about imagination and bringing cool space crap to a table to sit around and have some actual fun for once in our dull, depression and pathetic lives! Are you honestly going to sit there and look me in my virtual eyes and say these amazing peices of artwork were only ever made by waac players who never won anyway? Are you going to sit down at a game and go "pfft... you GSC players shouldn't be allowed to take that. That's my model!" As your unpainted blood angels deploy on the feild alongside your IG? I would rather! And i mean this! I would rather have a full year of horrible broken games vs the countless grey ultramarine armis I fight if it means that one day i can fight someone who makes something as amazing as those! Hell, I would rather GSC become top teir and thrash every other army if it means the people who put their heart and soul into those models can continue to play them and make more models just like it. It sems a lot of you in this community have forgot about what 40k even is anymore or why anyone started playing it back in the 90s anyway.

people haven't forgotten this, thing is, GW has an entire ruleset for that now called Narritive play.

BrianDavion wrote:
people haven't forgotten this, thing is, GW has an entire ruleset for that now called Narritive play.

You know deep down that's not correct. You just don't want to sound like an Ork whose limiting his grots creativity. Narrative play is an extremely rare game mode (especially in my area). It requires a lot of pre planning, time organisation and limits you to a close player base. I've never had a single narrative game in my life because I play at stores in which I only get an hour or so on a table before I have to move on. In addition, you play mainly strangers you might not see again. However, matched play! You say hi to a guy, open up your codex and just play. No fuss, no debating over rules, no explaining needed. These are the games you're always going to play and games we were always happy playing for years. I once asked a player at my store if I could bend the rules for fluffy reasons and he looked at me like i was insane, looked at his holy gw bible and told me to F off. In addition, who wouldn't want an opponent at their table in a tournament to have an amazing beautifully converted army? I'd rather losr to him than win to the same lists i see over and over. But no seriously, let's take all the players you don't like who were happily playing the game and just isolate the player base so all the creativity is limited to basements so the "serious big boy" players can play the game they want.

 lolman1c wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
people haven't forgotten this, thing is, GW has an entire ruleset for that now called Narritive play.

You know deep down that's not correct. You just don't want to sound like an Ork whose limiting his grots creativity. Narrative play is an extremely rare game mode (especially in my area). It requires a lot of pre planning, time organisation and limits you to a close player base. I've never had a single narrative game in my life because I play at stores in which I only get an hour or so on a table before I have to move on. In addition, you play mainly strangers you might not see again. However, matched play! You say hi to a guy, open up your codex and just play. No fuss, no debating over rules, no explaining needed. These are the games you're always going to play and games we were always happy playing for years. I once asked a player at my store if I could bend the rules for fluffy reasons and he looked at me like i was insane, looked at his holy gw bible and told me to F off. In addition, who wouldn't want an opponent at their table in a tournament to have an amazing beautifully converted army? I'd rather losr to him than win to the same lists i see over and over. But no seriously, let's take all the players you don't like who were happily playing the game and just isolate the player base so all the creativity is limited to basements so the "serious big boy" players can play the game they want.

not relevant, narrative play is by design that "wide open catch all use your creativity" method of play.

 lolman1c wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
people haven't forgotten this, thing is, GW has an entire ruleset for that now called Narritive play.

You know deep down that's not correct. You just don't want to sound like an Ork whose limiting his grots creativity. Narrative play is an extremely rare game mode (especially in my area). It requires a lot of pre planning, time organisation and limits you to a close player base. I've never had a single narrative game in my life because I play at stores in which I only get an hour or so on a table before I have to move on. In addition, you play mainly strangers you might not see again. However, matched play! You say hi to a guy, open up your codex and just play. No fuss, no debating over rules, no explaining needed. These are the games you're always going to play and games we were always happy playing for years. I once asked a player at my store if I could bend the rules for fluffy reasons and he looked at me like i was insane, looked at his holy gw bible and told me to F off. In addition, who wouldn't want an opponent at their table in a tournament to have an amazing beautifully converted army? I'd rather losr to him than win to the same lists i see over and over. But no seriously, let's take all the players you don't like who were happily playing the game and just isolate the player base so all the creativity is limited to basements so the "serious big boy" players can play the game they want.

If you want to make wierd and wacky stuff, exercise your creativity and have fluffy homebrew then play with friends.

Pick up gaming will and should be limited to the vanilla default since you're playing with strangers.

Why would a stranger be willing to indulge your homebrew rules when he doesn't know you and doesn't have time to properly consider those rules?

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
people haven't forgotten this, thing is, GW has an entire ruleset for that now called Narritive play.

You know deep down that's not correct. You just don't want to sound like an Ork whose limiting his grots creativity. Narrative play is an extremely rare game mode (especially in my area). It requires a lot of pre planning, time organisation and limits you to a close player base. I've never had a single narrative game in my life because I play at stores in which I only get an hour or so on a table before I have to move on. In addition, you play mainly strangers you might not see again. However, matched play! You say hi to a guy, open up your codex and just play. No fuss, no debating over rules, no explaining needed. These are the games you're always going to play and games we were always happy playing for years. I once asked a player at my store if I could bend the rules for fluffy reasons and he looked at me like i was insane, looked at his holy gw bible and told me to F off. In addition, who wouldn't want an opponent at their table in a tournament to have an amazing beautifully converted army? I'd rather losr to him than win to the same lists i see over and over. But no seriously, let's take all the players you don't like who were happily playing the game and just isolate the player base so all the creativity is limited to basements so the "serious big boy" players can play the game they want.

If you want to make wierd and wacky stuff, exercise your creativity and have fluffy homebrew then play with friends.

Pick up gaming will and should be limited to the vanilla default since you're playing with strangers.

Why would a stranger be willing to indulge your homebrew rules when he doesn't know you and doesn't have time to properly consider those rules?

You just proved my own point for me. Why would a stranger be willing to indulge in your homebrew rules? Thus, by removing the ability to use many troops that hsd official matched play rules (like the baneblades for GSC) you are splitting the community and making sure a lot of players can never play pick up games with their full army unless they go out there and buy more units to replace the hundreds of points they lost. This is why removing data sheets and abilities that were previously available to players in matched play is wrong and also lazy on GW's end. They need to make a way for people to still use these units in matched play while also encouraging players to not just make a tyranid IG force.

People payed for these rules and models (sometimes they saved up for a full year for these things). Why should they be forced out of a community (matched play and tournament community) because GW changed their minds. Why should theybhave to write their own rules after paying for them? This would be like buying a bike and painting it pink and suddenly the bike company makes it illegal to ride this bike anywhere but your back garden. Saying GW ows these players nothing is wrong and cruel! These were dedicated players who went out there and loved the hobby so much they spent a little extra money on it. Even if gw doesn't legally ow them anything I say theybhave a moral obligation to let them use the rules that were already there.

Your realise that when the indexes go away (and they will) loads of units will dissappear from all of the armies?

That there are FW models that didn't even make the index?

That two previous editions had vehicle design rules that were then dropped?

That codexes have had units that were later deleted?

Things change. Every unit isn't going to exist forever, that's never been the case. I've been playing since first edition, this is just something that happens. As for your moral obligation comment, no they really don't have to include and support every unit forever as you're suggesting. I'm quite comfortable with the idea that units get sacrificed during a streamlining and balancing of the ruleset.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Your realise that when the indexes go away (and they will) loads of units will dissappear from all of the armies?

That there are FW models that didn't even make the index?

That two previous editions had vehicle design rules that were then dropped?

That codexes have had units that were later deleted?

Things change. Every unit isn't going to exist forever, that's never been the case. I've been playing since first edition, this is just something that happens. As for your moral obligation comment, no they really don't have to include and support every unit forever as you're suggesting. I'm quite comfortable with the idea that units get sacrificed during a streamlining and balancing of the ruleset.

How is any of this a good thing? Just because it happens to other armies and continues to happen doesn't make it a good thing! If anything we should make a stand now to stop this from happening more often in the future! Or what is even the point of buying GW products if next week it could suddenly be made useless? (I'm not talking nerfed I'm talking full on doesn't have any rules at all useless). Don't use your age to try and argue you're correct. I'm sure there are a lot of older people in the world who argue for stuff we clearly know is wrong just because they experienced it.

How can you be comfortable with this? It's like saying " I'm happy for half the population on earth to be killed it it means I get to own a mansion and live a life of luxury. As long as it isn't my own country, friends or family of course."

I tell you what... Grey Knights. Clearly unbalanced and need a lot of work to make them a solid army. However, let's just remove them from the game. There we go, problem solved! The game has now been balanced and people can stop complaining about how uncompetitive they are. I'm sure they can make their own rules up to make them strong in narrative play. I'm so happy people lost something they cared about so I can have a happy gaming experience. Sure the 40k devs won't use this method in the future to just quick solve all their issues rather than sitting down and actually doing something creative, fun and balanced.

So is your plan is to just let the rules get more and more bloated over time or to have no more new units?

Frankly 40K already has way too many units. A paring down would be a good thing for the game.

If that means that some models that I have now need to be used as something else or not used it really isn't a big problem.

Lots of people (including myself) that built vehicles for the 3rd edition vehicle design rules weren't best pleased when we couldn't use them anymore but getting rid of the VDR was a VERY good idea.

I would rather people didn't suffer so I can have a fun time when I'm already having a fun time with the current ruleset. Especially when these models can be half of somebodies army and are a pretty new choice in terms of overall 40k rule history.

This is some off topic shenanigans but I think the key point is that in matched play Imperial players can ally with almost half of the model range, Chaos players can ally with about a quarter of the range, Aeldari players can ally with each other, GSC, Nids and IG can ally with each other and every other xeno is stuck with only themselves.

This leads to huuuuuuge imbalances.

Compare the Knight to the Stompa for reference.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:


Compare the Knight to the Stompa for reference.

The IK book doesn't give me a ton of hope for the Stompa simply because they seem to have done a great job with knights. I can't see them dedicating the design space for it in the codex. Enough point drops might do it, but it will still feel lackluster without IK style stratagems.

Hence, let's just remove all Xenos factions... will cut down a lot on models and make everything balanced. Good ol Marines vs Marines!

 lolman1c wrote:
I would rather people didn't suffer so I can have a fun time when I'm already having a fun time with the current ruleset. Especially when these models can be half of somebodies army and are a pretty new choice in terms of overall 40k rule history.

How about not dodging the question?

You believe that units should never be removed.

So, is your plan is to just let the rules get more and more bloated over time or to have no more new units?

So what do you do with the redundant models?

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I would rather people didn't suffer so I can have a fun time when I'm already having a fun time with the current ruleset. Especially when these models can be half of somebodies army and are a pretty new choice in terms of overall 40k rule history.

How about not dodging the question?

You believe that units should never be removed.

So, is your plan is to just let the rules get more and more bloated over time or to have no more new units?

Dodge the question? You have dodged everything I have said over and over...given me one sentenced answers ignoring 99% of what I'm saying. You honestly sound like a robot and it scares me people are like this.

So here we go. Here is a clear and none dodged answer so you can't twist my words into your answer:

Yes, units should never be removed. Gw should spend time developing new models and adjusting rules to make existing units work before replacing them with new units. This would take up a lot of development and hold us over with new models for old rules. However, you have given a fake un researched answer you have just presumed. If gw spent time focusing on balancing everything that is already there (and not "bloat the codex" with an entire new army of primaris marines) then they can happily make new units as the old units are all balanced and can be left alone. I mean look at D&D, we're still using spells that were created almost 50 years ago. This is a hobby and a game after all not a competitive sport... I feel like in 40k I have to train, adapt and spend a fortune to keep up just playing friendly games. What happened to a bunch of mates having a laugh with some awesome looking models.... the only reason i dislike narrative play is because nobody wants to play it so i can't play it. I can't even bring my beers to gw anymore. XD now we have people happy for us to lose our armies so this fantasy idea of balance can be achieved. Balance couldn't be achieved when they had 10 models in each army. XD

Where are the Indexes going? The secret GW police are gonna confiscate everyone's copy as soon as the last codex is done with?

The indexes will continue to be used for Legacy options. Let's stop saying Index like it's a bad word....

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Where are the Indexes going? The secret GW police are gonna confiscate everyone's copy as soon as the last codex is done with?

The indexes will continue to be used for Legacy options. Let's stop saying Index like it's a bad word....

If the GSC rumour is true it would make the units illegal to use index or not.

Removing units is fine, as long as they are poorly designed units or unpopular. Some of the current ork models that dont have official models or are metal/finecast and would need plastic boxes are some of the best and most popular ones (Big Mek w/ KFF, Warboss in MA, Warboss on Bikes, Big Mek on bike, Weirdboy, Tankbustas, Gazzy) Most of these units are staples of the Ork army and would need something to fill the gap (no psyhics without weirdboy, not much AT without tankbustas, NO GAZZY, All HQs can only footslog/no armor upgrades)

This is why i feel for GSC. I know if I don't speak up for them now that some of our most staple units that every Ork army builds their entire force around might disappear (I'm talking units we still have but are ancient). You're and idiot and a fool if you think the index will last forever. It is there to keep you happy until you're all distracted by the next pretty marine and all us Ork players lose what gives us joy.

 lolman1c wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
I would rather people didn't suffer so I can have a fun time when I'm already having a fun time with the current ruleset. Especially when these models can be half of somebodies army and are a pretty new choice in terms of overall 40k rule history.

How about not dodging the question?

You believe that units should never be removed.

So, is your plan is to just let the rules get more and more bloated over time or to have no more new units?

Dodge the question? You have dodged everything I have said over and over...given me one sentenced answers ignoring 99% of what I'm saying. You honestly sound like a robot and it scares me people are like this.

So here we go. Here is a clear and none dodged answer so you can't twist my words into your answer:

Yes, units should never be removed. Gw should spend time developing new models and adjusting rules to make existing units work before replacing them with new units. This would take up a lot of development and hold us over with new models for old rules. However, you have given a fake un researched answer you have just presumed. If gw spent time focusing on balancing everything that is already there (and not "bloat the codex" with an entire new army of primaris marines) then they can happily make new units as the old units are all balanced and can be left alone. I mean look at D&D, we're still using spells that were created almost 50 years ago. This is a hobby and a game after all not a competitive sport... I feel like in 40k I have to train, adapt and spend a fortune to keep up just playing friendly games. What happened to a bunch of mates having a laugh with some awesome looking models.... the only reason i dislike narrative play is because nobody wants to play it so i can't play it. I can't even bring my beers to gw anymore. XD now we have people happy for us to lose our armies so this fantasy idea of balance can be achieved. Balance couldn't be achieved when they had 10 models in each army. XD

You don't think that constantly growing the unit selection is creating an ongoing problem where new units and rules changes create more and more unintended interactions and it becomes unmanageable?

As to: what happened to a bunch of mates having a laugh? That's still happening. The problem you have is that you're playing games with strangers. If you were playing with your mates then bringing a GSC Baneblade after it gets removed from the GSC codex probably isn't going to be a problem (depending on you and your mates). The point of tightening the rules for matched play is precisely so that you can rock up and play a game with a stranger with the minimal of negotiation. This was a huge complaint (rightly) with the last couple of editions - that it just wasn't possible. It's not perfect now but it's much better. That was always going to involve reducing the options available. Play narrative with your friends (or just selectively ignore the matched play restrictions) and you can take anything you want.

Your D&D example is a very relevant one. Almost no-one plays D&D exactly as it's written in the rulebook (lots of groups play a game that isn't even especially close...). Setting up a game involves a bunch of conversation about which rules will be used, which will be ignored, which will be altered, which new rules will be added. Clearly this is not something that should be emulated for matched play.

I feel pretty confident that GW is going to make official models for units like tech marine on bike and such. It's just a matter of time really

 fraser1191 wrote:
I feel pretty confident that GW is going to make official models for units like tech marine on bike and such. It's just a matter of time really

a "Bike mounted HQ" would be a pretty easy kit to produce and likely sell pretty well.

BrianDavion wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
I feel pretty confident that GW is going to make official models for units like tech marine on bike and such. It's just a matter of time really

a "Bike mounted HQ" would be a pretty easy kit to produce and likely sell pretty well.

Absolutely, the whole "X" not appearing in the codex is from that one really good 3rd party company that made all those bike hq rip offs and such.

It's a pretty obvious move really. Remove the unit and totally cut off all sales to that company. Then when official models are released, reintroduce the data sheets back into the game

It just blows for the armies that require such HQs

I'd pay good money for an HQ similar to the white scars biker from kill team Cassius

kombatwombat wrote:
People are more cool with it because they understand that making an army called ‘Imperial Guard’, and then making another army ‘Imperial Guard + 1’ isn’t a spectacularly good idea. It’s an uncharacteristically good balance decision by GW over sheer profiteering and it’s being rightly praised.

Yeah, they got their money from people, great time to stuff them with rules that say they can't use them.

I mean hell, I have a slowly growing pile of GSC leaders and parts I was intending to use to convert a full guard army out of. If that's not viable that's a lot of fun ideas that are no longer board viable.

 Peregrine wrote:
It means you will get a codex full off Games™ Workshop™ Citadel™ FineRules™, packed with 110% Games™ Workshop™ Hobby™ Goodness™. You won't believe how much content will be in your new Games™ Workshop™ Codex™. We've really outdone ourselves this time. We copy/pasted the same relics and warlord traits from the Ultramarines™, but now with 110% MORE WOLVES™. Give your Wolf™ Lord™ on Citadel™ Thunderwolf™ and Wolf™ Sword™ and Armor™ Of™ The™ Space™ Wolf™, or use the new BORK BORK I SEE A FOOD™ stratagem to have your Space™ Puppies™ get that scrap of food on the floor on a 2+. PACKED™ WITH™ CONTENT™.

So totally this.