I wondered why the Regimental Standard episode mentioned ghostwarriors for Eldar
Viglius stands on the precipice. War has shaken it from without and within, as Genestealer Cults wage a shadowy war against the Space Wolves and the Adeptus Mechanicus, while Ork warbands patrol the wastes between cities. This planet – a fragile thread that joins the sundered halves on the Imperium – is on the verge of collapse.
A mission of salvation by the warriors of Saim-hann has turned into a blood feud between the Imperium and that craftworld – and now, upon the streets of Vigilus, the Ultramarines prepare for urban war with the vengeful Aeldari…
Wake the Dead is a new battlebox that continues the developing story of Vigilus, as the guerrilla war beneath the planet’s surface tilts into global conflict. Inside, you’ll find two armies – a conclave of Craftworlds warriors and an elite strike force of Primaris Space Marines.
Each of these armies is led by a brand-new plastic Character, with a Primaris Lieutenant and a Spiritseer:
Thanks to the campaign book in the box, you’ll be able to play through this chapter in the developing story of Vigilus yourself with a series of narrative missions, datasheets and matched play points included in the set. If you’re looking to get a friend started with Warhammer 40,000 or want to learn yourself, this is a great way to begin.
Like the Tooth and Claw and Forgebane battleboxes before it, Wake The Dead will save you a huge chunk of money compared to getting the models inside separately, making it a great way to expand your collection or begin a new one.
Super boring box, but nice to see a plastic Spirit Seer (though it dashes my hopes of a genuine multi-part psyker kit for Eldar). Even the Primaris Lieutenant model is pretty boring.
I do hope it'll be a decent deal though for people who need/want those models.
Not the most impressive release, but I do like that Spiritseer. The Lieutenant is thoroughly boring, and looks almost entirely convertable with minimal effort.
I'm guessing this will be £90-£95, like Forgebane or Tooth and Claw? I'll probably just wait till the Spiritseer is release alone, for Killteam or something.
I wondered why the Regimental Standard episode mentioned ghostwarriors for Eldar
So why didn't you put any of the pictures in your post?
Did I miss a rule where I have to post photos?
While not a rule, it is helpful to have both a proper thread title and an OP with plenty of information for those too scared or lazy to click the link.
Elbows wrote: Super boring box, but nice to see a plastic Spirit Seer (though it dashes my hopes of a genuine multi-part psyker kit for Eldar). Even the Primaris Lieutenant model is pretty boring.
I do hope it'll be a decent deal though for people who need/want those models.
GW has gone way of no generic multi part plastic characters so not sure why anybody would be still hoping for those. Might just as well hope for win from lottery >D
Elbows wrote: Super boring box, but nice to see a plastic Spirit Seer (though it dashes my hopes of a genuine multi-part psyker kit for Eldar). Even the Primaris Lieutenant model is pretty boring.
I do hope it'll be a decent deal though for people who need/want those models.
GW has gone way of no generic multi part plastic characters so not sure why anybody would be still hoping for those. Might just as well hope for win from lottery >D
Other than the Space Marine Commander and Chaos Terminator Lord, were there ever any others which might engender such expectations this many years after the first two?
The actual design elements on the primaries aren't bad, but christ is that pose dull and pointless.
Elbows wrote: Super boring box, but nice to see a plastic Spirit Seer (though it dashes my hopes of a genuine multi-part psyker kit for Eldar). Even the Primaris Lieutenant model is pretty boring.
I do hope it'll be a decent deal though for people who need/want those models.
GW has gone way of no generic multi part plastic characters so not sure why anybody would be still hoping for those. Might just as well hope for win from lottery >D
There are still some relatively recent examples of multi-part HQs as options within unit kits, like the Tempestor Prime in the Scions kit, or the Big Mek in mega armour from the Mega armoured Nobs kit. I suppose hoping for another kit like that is still reasonable.
Kits like the old Space Marine Commander or Chaos Lord in Terminator armour is definitely unrealistic with recent releases. I don't think one of those have been released for decades even?
I wasn't actually thinking it would happen, I'm still pretending that GW will see the light and realize that $25-40 single plastic figures are fething stupid, and that a multi-part hero kit for Eldar would be shockingly simple to do.
Elbows wrote: Super boring box, but nice to see a plastic Spirit Seer (though it dashes my hopes of a genuine multi-part psyker kit for Eldar). Even the Primaris Lieutenant model is pretty boring.
I do hope it'll be a decent deal though for people who need/want those models.
GW has gone way of no generic multi part plastic characters so not sure why anybody would be still hoping for those. Might just as well hope for win from lottery >D
Other than the Space Marine Commander and Chaos Terminator Lord, were there ever any others which might engender such expectations this many years after the first two?
The actual design elements on the primaries aren't bad, but christ is that pose dull and pointless.
Tyranid Hive Tyrant would be the only other example I can think of.
Plastic Spiritseer is nice to have, but the Lieutenant is underwhelming. They could have at least given him a different loadout that what's already available as that seems to be any way to get any new options.
Crimson wrote: Plastic Spiritseer is nice to have, but the Lieutenant is underwhelming. They could have at least given him a different loadout that what's already available as that seems to be any way to get any new options.
The Lieutenant seems to be the Ultramarines equivalent to the BA, DA, and Wolves ones--and it'd be a way to acquire one of the two Primaris LT profiles that are in the Dark Imperium set without buying it.
Also, he's exceedingly underwhelming. Even for an Ultramarine model.
I wondered why the Regimental Standard episode mentioned ghostwarriors for Eldar
So why didn't you put any of the pictures in your post?
Did I miss a rule where I have to post photos?
No, but if your thread is going to be 'the' thread--it doesn't hurt you to make an effort.
Actually, after I saw the one that followed mine...thought, hmm, his is better. However, I didn't see a thread about it initially so posted a simple link. Figured with it being an official GW page, people wouldn't be concerned about click bait.
Actually, after I saw the one that followed mine...thought, hmm, his is better. However, I didn't see a thread about it initially so posted a simple link. Figured with it being an official GW page, people wouldn't be concerned about click bait.
It's not concern with clickbait--it just makes it a heck of a lot easier for people to have one consolidated area to see the pictures.
Actually, after I saw the one that followed mine...thought, hmm, his is better. However, I didn't see a thread about it initially so posted a simple link. Figured with it being an official GW page, people wouldn't be concerned about click bait.
It's not concern with clickbait--it just makes it a heck of a lot easier for people to have one consolidated area to see the pictures.
No worries. Too bad the box isn't inspiring enough to post really good photos, lol. I'm actually surprised they put the Wave Serpent in there instead of the Webway Gate. Figured they'd try to sell more of them.
However, with the start collecting box and this one, it's a pretty good starter for ghost warrior Eldar. 2 Spiritseers, 1 unit of Guardians, 2 units of wraithguard, 1 serpent, 1 wraithlord, 1 warwalker. Not the strongest Eldar units, but relatively fluffy.
I am excited that Spirit Seer is going to be plastic and that we are getting a box set like this with Craftworld. Only problem is that I don't need any of this that much except maybe the Spirit Seer and Wraithguard. Well, I could turn the Guardians into Storm Guardians so there is that.
I've said it before, GW need to release a Ynnari codex with unique units (they can be themed on traditional aspects, but called differently so they can be pointed differently for Soulburst). Then these new units share components with traditional Aspect Warriors so you hit up regular Eldar too. Would sell really well IMHO.
bullyboy wrote: I've said it before, GW need to release a Ynnari codex with unique units (they can be themed on traditional aspects, but called differently so they can be pointed differently for Soulburst). Then these new units share components with traditional Aspect Warriors so you hit up regular Eldar too. Would sell really well IMHO.
Somebody mentioned on a Facebook group that this box set might be leading up to an Ynnari release considering that each box set so far has been hinting at an upcoming release(Forgebone: Ad Mech / Necron, Tooth and Claw: Space Wolves, Genestealer Cults).
bullyboy wrote: I've said it before, GW need to release a Ynnari codex with unique units (they can be themed on traditional aspects, but called differently so they can be pointed differently for Soulburst). Then these new units share components with traditional Aspect Warriors so you hit up regular Eldar too. Would sell really well IMHO.
The longer we go without actual plastic Aspect Warrior kits the more I believe Ynnari will be some kind of awful Primaris-styled Eldar re-design. I really do think GW is attempting to re-do the majority of their older lines with far more obscure and specialized styles. I think we'll see CSM disappear slowly as it's replaced by four proper books for each God, etc.
It's fortunate that I love old Eldar metals (though for convenience sake I'd be fine with a quality plastic kit for most models), because Eldar are in such a fething bizarre place right now, I could never advise someone to start an army of them.
-Aspect Warriors are finecast, expensive, unavailable, and a general mess.
-Characters are stupidly now in plastic with zero options.
-Some of the characters are no longer being produced
-The Falcon is the same it's been since release in 1997(?), but you can't buy it anywhere other than GW (or occasionally eBay)
-Basic troop box is old and ugly (and you can't make Storm Guardians without expensive/crappy resin kits)
-Little to no support from 3rd party manufacturers (outside of the occasional Farseer/Warlock alternate sculpt)
-Some designs actual date from 1993 - and while I think they're attractive, they're in finecast and not likely to attract new players.
-Dire Avengers have a decent kit but were kicked in the teeth when GW decided $35 was appropriate for five plastic troop models. (reducing that box from a previous 10)
Luckily their small plastic release within the past ten years was decent, great Wraithlord, great Wraithguard, ugly new tank, but versatile. The War Walker is ugly as feth, and the Vyper molds are so worn out the kit is pretty poor now.
If Eldar were not consistently strong army-wise, they'd be absolutely abandoned and you'd never see them. They're just in a very very bizarre place right now. Again, if my army wasn't 80% 2nd edition metals recovered from eBay I wouldn't have an Eldar army, and I've been an Eldar player since I started in the early-to-mid 90's.
-Aspect Warriors are finecast, expensive, unavailable, and a general mess.
-Characters are stupidly now in plastic with zero options.
-Some of the characters are no longer being produced
-The Falcon is the same it's been since release in 1997(?), but you can't buy it anywhere other than GW (or occasionally eBay)
-Basic troop box is old and ugly (and you can't make Storm Guardians without expensive/crappy resin kits)
-Little to no support from 3rd party manufacturers (outside of the occasional Farseer/Warlock alternate sculpt)
-Some designs actual date from 1993 - and while I think they're attractive, they're in finecast and not likely to attract new players.
-Dire Avengers have a decent kit but were kicked in the teeth when GW decided $35 was appropriate for five plastic troop models. (reducing that box from a previous 10)
Luckily their small plastic release within the past ten years was decent, great Wraithlord, great Wraithguard, ugly new tank, but versatile. The War Walker is ugly as feth, and the Vyper molds are so worn out the kit is pretty poor now.
Huh, can't say I agree with you.
The Guardians are a decent kit, no problems for me.
The falcon and variants likewise. Still look better than most other vehicles out there. Falcon just needs better rules.
Dire Avenger cost is ridiculous, but good kit.
wraith models excellent.
personally think the HQs are good too, they just need to redo character models, especially the Phoenix Lords.
Basically, for me, it's all about the Aspects. Only thing that needs to change with new models IMHO.
Eldarsif wrote: I am excited that Spirit Seer is going to be plastic and that we are getting a box set like this with Craftworld. Only problem is that I don't need any of this that much except maybe the Spirit Seer and Wraithguard. Well, I could turn the Guardians into Storm Guardians so there is that.
I'll probably end up buying a box.
I just wish they'd release a Harlequin box again.
Wait for the spirit seer to pop up on ebay once the box is out or wait longer for an inevitable later release either solo or bundled with some Wraithguard (like captain Solaq and the SM command squad).
The fluff for this set is lazy and doesn't make sense. Eldar care about the fate of the universe enough to save the Imperium's ass and resurrect a Primarch for them, but here they are fighting the Imperium again on a world that's touted as being a fragile thread that's holding the Imperium together. The Ultramarines should also be way more tolerant of the Eldar.
Guess every faction has to have a stake in the events that take place on Vigilus.
Elbows wrote: Super boring box, but nice to see a plastic Spirit Seer (though it dashes my hopes of a genuine multi-part psyker kit for Eldar). Even the Primaris Lieutenant model is pretty boring.
I do hope it'll be a decent deal though for people who need/want those models.
GW has gone way of no generic multi part plastic characters so not sure why anybody would be still hoping for those. Might just as well hope for win from lottery >D
Other than the Space Marine Commander and Chaos Terminator Lord, were there ever any others which might engender such expectations this many years after the first two?
The actual design elements on the primaries aren't bad, but christ is that pose dull and pointless.
Tyranid Hive Tyrant would be the only other example I can think of.
Well, it sounds like it's time for Plan B: buy some Idoneth Deepkin, slap on some Dark Eldar weapons, and name them the Punishing Piranhas Aspect. Never heard of them? Khaine has some aspects that are more personal, more difficult to express, until he is ready to be vulnerable with you.
zend wrote: The fluff for this set is lazy and doesn't make sense. Eldar care about the fate of the universe enough to save the Imperium's ass and resurrect a Primarch for them, but here they are fighting the Imperium again on a world that's touted as being a fragile thread that's holding the Imperium together. The Ultramarines should also be way more tolerant of the Eldar.
Guess every faction has to have a stake in the events that take place on Vigilus.
Shrug. To me it just reads as standard THE PLANET IN THIS BOOK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT EVER hype, where every conflict is a dire struggle for the fate of the universe even when it's a backwater mining colony. It's dumb, but it's just standard for GW.
There are a few things I could use in there (reivers, spirit seer, WS) Some I wouldn’t mind (inceptors) and others which would just pad out the shelf (intercessors, guardians, WG). Nothing is useless per se, but a whole lot of meh.
I wanted some WG and another WS, but bought them fairly recently. Not that the concept of 3 mechanized squads of WG doesn’t appeal to me; but seems a little excessive. How many guardians does one craftworld need? I rarely field more then 10-120 in a list (and own 30)
2 DI boxes set me up pretty well for primaris. Sure, these are full kits, but generally the non-DI options are the bad ones. Might find some use in fun builds as wacky options.
Low enough price I’ll grab it just to flesh out my armies a bit. But no major draws here for me.
It's like gw want to justify ninety quid for these sets but in the majority of cases folks want one faction and the savings have to be enough to justify trading the other half. A quick ebay search for tooth and claw netted quite a few results for the genestealer half but no whole sets for the SW half. I can't help but conclude that a better set would have been both primaris halves from this new set and tooth and claw which would make a pretty good starting box.
zend wrote: The fluff for this set is lazy and doesn't make sense. Eldar care about the fate of the universe enough to save the Imperium's ass and resurrect a Primarch for them, but here they are fighting the Imperium again on a world that's touted as being a fragile thread that's holding the Imperium together. The Ultramarines should also be way more tolerant of the Eldar
Having the Ultras vs Saim Hann does seem less about what fits the fluff and more about what armies the studio already has painted up The Kill team background mentions the Iron Hands being present on Vigilus. They would IMO be a much better fit for this story.
That said, it was the Ynnari who helped to bring Roboute back not the Craftworlders. The majority of the Eldar factions see them at best as misguided, at worst as dangerous fanatics. Likewise Guilliman(and by extension the Ultras) is not daft enough to assume that all the different Eldar groups are on board with his secret alliance of convenience with Yvraine and her flock.
Pretty disappointed this will be the first release out in "Orktober" to be honest. We've waited long enough, GW is really trying my patience now and by the looks of facebook I'm not the only one with this opinion.
I also think its a poor business move on GWs part, to release another box set so soon after the last. At least speed freeks is a new game. This is just wolf & claw 2.0.
I imagine that it will sell. People like Eldar and they like marines so they will probably move more copies of this than the space wolves one. I'm not personally interested in it, but it's not a bad idea to have these rotating starter sets with different armies. They also price them pretty well which might encourage someone to buy the box because they wanted one half and had a mild interest in the second half.
zend wrote: The fluff for this set is lazy and doesn't make sense. Eldar care about the fate of the universe enough to save the Imperium's ass and resurrect a Primarch for them, but here they are fighting the Imperium again on a world that's touted as being a fragile thread that's holding the Imperium together. The Ultramarines should also be way more tolerant of the Eldar
Having the Ultras vs Saim Hann does seem less about what fits the fluff and more about what armies the studio already has painted up The Kill team background mentions the Iron Hands being present on Vigilus. They would IMO be a much better fit for this story.
That said, it was the Ynnari who helped to bring Roboute back not the Craftworlders. The majority of the Eldar factions see them at best as misguided, at worst as dangerous fanatics. Likewise Guilliman(and by extension the Ultras) is not daft enough to assume that all the different Eldar groups are on board with his secret alliance of convenience with Yvraine and her flock.
GW hates the Iron Hands though, and unless the Primaris geneseed stock for them prevents their habit of replacing their body parts with cybernetics, GW would've had to put a little effort into making an upgrade pack and making a unique character for them.
zend wrote: The fluff for this set is lazy and doesn't make sense. Eldar care about the fate of the universe enough to save the Imperium's ass and resurrect a Primarch for them, but here they are fighting the Imperium again on a world that's touted as being a fragile thread that's holding the Imperium together. The Ultramarines should also be way more tolerant of the Eldar.
Guess every faction has to have a stake in the events that take place on Vigilus.
Shrug. To me it just reads as standard THE PLANET IN THIS BOOK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT EVER hype, where every conflict is a dire struggle for the fate of the universe even when it's a backwater mining colony. It's dumb, but it's just standard for GW.
Vigilus is the new Cadia, the world that stands between the two halves of the Imperium. Used to be a backwater, but is no the most important system in the galaxy.
zend wrote: The fluff for this set is lazy and doesn't make sense. Eldar care about the fate of the universe enough to save the Imperium's ass and resurrect a Primarch for them, but here they are fighting the Imperium again on a world that's touted as being a fragile thread that's holding the Imperium together. The Ultramarines should also be way more tolerant of the Eldar.
Guess every faction has to have a stake in the events that take place on Vigilus.
I dunno about that, the only fluff we have right now is
A mission of salvation by the warriors of Saim-hann has turned into a blood feud between the Imperium and that craftworld – and now, upon the streets of Vigilus, the Ultramarines prepare for urban war with the vengeful Aeldari
this to me sounds like a case of Eldar show up to help the Imperium and something happens to get them fighting, there is a case or two on record where the eldar showed up helped a space marine chapter and at the victory party translation errors lead to outright war. this could be a case like that.
an ultramarines box makes some sense, the new mini in the Box is a Leuitenant and they now have with this release a Lt. styled for each of the "big 4" (the dark Imperium Leuitenants are gonna be exclusives)
that said I'm gonna be passing on this box, tooth and claw JUST came out, and I thought that set was better then this anyway, the Leuitenant in Wake the dead is somewhat uninspiring, and the only thing in it that I don't have eneugh of from earlier sets is reavers. I can just buy a box of reavers.
Tooth and Claw had aggressors and the dread, so their was minimal overlap with dark Imperium.
So basically, we are getting more of the same, in stereo. Whoever was responsible for this needs to take it back, take out those Sam Hain NON wild riders eldar, and put in the tried and true Dark Eldar figures.
tneva82 wrote: So. People complain about GW prices, GW gives discount boxes out and people complain about that. Heh.
Less overpriced is still overpriced. Maybe people would like to be able to pick up individual kits at reasonable prices, instead of dumb $120 sets with two factions that may have limited appeal to new players, which then have exclusive-to-this-box-for-6 months characters included in a weak attempt to make them sell.
Feth these boxes and this "spend even more money to get less ripped-off" strategy.
bullyboy wrote: I've said it before, GW need to release a Ynnari codex with unique units (they can be themed on traditional aspects, but called differently so they can be pointed differently for Soulburst). Then these new units share components with traditional Aspect Warriors so you hit up regular Eldar too. Would sell really well IMHO.
The longer we go without actual plastic Aspect Warrior kits the more I believe Ynnari will be some kind of awful Primaris-styled Eldar re-design. I really do think GW is attempting to re-do the majority of their older lines with far more obscure and specialized styles. I think we'll see CSM disappear slowly as it's replaced by four proper books for each God, etc.
It's fortunate that I love old Eldar metals (though for convenience sake I'd be fine with a quality plastic kit for most models), because Eldar are in such a fething bizarre place right now, I could never advise someone to start an army of them.
-Aspect Warriors are finecast, expensive, unavailable, and a general mess. -Characters are stupidly now in plastic with zero options. -Some of the characters are no longer being produced -The Falcon is the same it's been since release in 1997(?), but you can't buy it anywhere other than GW (or occasionally eBay) -Basic troop box is old and ugly (and you can't make Storm Guardians without expensive/crappy resin kits) -Little to no support from 3rd party manufacturers (outside of the occasional Farseer/Warlock alternate sculpt) -Some designs actual date from 1993 - and while I think they're attractive, they're in finecast and not likely to attract new players. -Dire Avengers have a decent kit but were kicked in the teeth when GW decided $35 was appropriate for five plastic troop models. (reducing that box from a previous 10)
Luckily their small plastic release within the past ten years was decent, great Wraithlord, great Wraithguard, ugly new tank, but versatile. The War Walker is ugly as feth, and the Vyper molds are so worn out the kit is pretty poor now.
If Eldar were not consistently strong army-wise, they'd be absolutely abandoned and you'd never see them. They're just in a very very bizarre place right now. Again, if my army wasn't 80% 2nd edition metals recovered from eBay I wouldn't have an Eldar army, and I've been an Eldar player since I started in the early-to-mid 90's.
I'm also rather sure that CE won't really get updated from now on, and they'll put pretty much all of their attention on the Ynnari from now on.
And yes, these guardians are really starting to show their age. The CE range is such a mess
You Eldar are the Empire/Dwarfs for 40K these days? They'll be there... but that's kinda it?
tneva82 wrote: Impressive how you manage to miss all the complains about how boring release and how it's cash grab. Lol. Dakka white knight in action
It is a boring release. Your complaint is a non-sequitur. You're acting as if people should be happy/grateful when GW releases a box like this because it's cheaper.
You're also acting like the complaints are contradictory (ie. first they complain about prices, now they complaint when the price is cheap!) when, firstly, that isn't contradictory (contradictory would be complaining that the price is now too low) and secondly the people making the first complaint aren't necessarily the same as the people making the second complaint.
yeah it's boring as frag. I usually buy all of these discount boxes, even if I don't play any of the armies, but I have no desire to buy this one. Even the new characters are bland
One way or another it'll be a cheap way of getting Inceptors. Outside of the Ancient from the Dark Imperium box, the Inceptors are the one Primaris unit I really like the look of.
The new Primaris character is actually in the exact pose as the Emperor's Champion, and his helmet has the wreath crown as well (I know there's a name for it but I can't remember). This model is begging for kitbashing as a primaris emperor's champion.
ultimentra wrote: The new Primaris character is actually in the exact pose as the Emperor's Champion, and his helmet has the wreath crown as well (I know there's a name for it but I can't remember). This model is begging for kitbashing as a primaris emperor's champion.
Reminiscent, but not exact, The Emperor Champion have a more firm and balanced pose, while the Primaris one lean forward a bit too much
The Eldar options for this seem like a mess. Do they just have a ton of guardians and wraithguard that they need to sell? It makes me wonder, especially because the Eldar Start Collecting set also has 5 wraithguard.
Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt that nobody was asking for that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYGGW.
Finally, there's the lore - Saim-Hann as a guardian- and wraithguard- force? Why not go Ulthwe or Iyanden, if that's the case? Hell, or Ynnari - that would certainly fit the "death" theme.
HuskyWarhammer wrote: Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt that nobody was asking for...
The current one is FineCost, so this gets rid of that with a new plastic one. No one out here might've been asking for it, but GW wants to rid themselves of everything non-plastic.
HuskyWarhammer wrote: Finally, there's the lore - Saim-Hann as a guardian- and wraithguard- force? Why not go Ulthwe or Iyanden, if that's the case? Hell, or Ynnari - that would certainly fit the "death" theme.
Whilst I can't explain why they went with Saim-Hann and made it a Wraith force (with no Wild Riders!), I doubt we'll se Ynnari until they get a full Fish Elves style release, complete with new models for just about everything.
Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt that nobody was asking for that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYGGW.
And the spiritseer's the most interesting part! Though I'm not sure why you're confused by the sword; it's model first THEN rules, like the cryptek we got. So no deviation on policy there.
Anyway, this box would have been 1000X more interesting with a plastic aspect unit. Maybe shining spears for the saim-hann bike theme. Or dark reapers for the "harvester of souls" thing.
But there may be some hope yet:
GW has been releasing sets in doubles:
- Necrons vs admech (forgebane)
- admech vs gene cults (kill team)
- gene cults vs marines (tooth and claw)
- marines vs eldar (wake the dead)
So what's next? My bet is on eldar vs orks (after speed freeks), specifically yrnari vs trike boss. Perhaps a new aspect dedicated to ynnead and synergizing with soulburst? It would be a neat lead up to the ynnari codex.
If they made new Aspect warrior, they would let you know many months before release. They would shout at you with a megaphone and sound the loudest air horn you've ever heard.
Considering that this box set came out of nowhere with no announcement until the week before preorder... it's hard to say what they would do. But you are probably right to be skeptical. That said, we are still waiting for the gunslinger cultist to be released, which makes me think that GW tries to hold back a few releases for a while, so it's certainly plausible.
HuskyWarhammer wrote: The Eldar options for this seem like a mess. Do they just have a ton of guardians and wraithguard that they need to sell? It makes me wonder, especially because the Eldar Start Collecting set also has 5 wraithguard.
Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt that nobody was asking for that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYGGW.
Finally, there's the lore - Saim-Hann as a guardian- and wraithguard- force? Why not go Ulthwe or Iyanden, if that's the case? Hell, or Ynnari - that would certainly fit the "death" theme.
I just don't get what they're aiming for.
tend to agree here.
I'm OK with the spirit seer model, but why not push Iyanden? Both the start collecting box and this panted red is just odd.
Also wonder what this means going forward, it's not like this release was needed. Is there something else around the corner?
GW is simply realizing that they probably sell more "Start Collecting" and discounted boxes like this than normal kits because - gasp - they're occasionally a good deal. After all, GW does not do sales...ever (well they have in the past, about twenty years ago). When you get these boxes, the ones I've seen are just a large printed box, a heap of sprues and a couple pamphlets.
That costs GW very little while giving some interesting starting options for new players, and "big box" kits to send to retailers for a short while. They generate topics like this one, and are basically stupid easy/cheap to set up and throw out in limited quantities.
The "mess" that is the Eldar side was discussed earlier - GW has only a handful of plastic Eldar kits, so they very quickly run out of things to put in them. You very quickly see a trend...
There's nothing wrong with a boring release, especially if it's a package deal that nets a decent discount. I'd be on board for grabbing this if I hadn't just bought a Dark Imperium and Eldar SC myself. Unfortunately, I'm sitting on too large of a pile of minis as it is, as they are both armies I'm interested in.
I just wish they would make it more than an "discounted" box set.
What does frustrate me is the lack of effort put into the campaign book. The one for Forgebane had two pages of (bad) fluff, 3 scenarios and outdated-at-the-time-of-print statblocks. I really wish GW would put some effort into the story and campaign portions rather than the obvious throwaway "something to do with your discounted miniatures" stuff they're tossing in the box. They ought to do something like the old days - throw in something like Renegade, Calth and Prospero and put *some* effort into a mini-game to even more use out of the minis put in the box and components worth more than binning five seconds after pulling out the sprues.
Have to concur with the underwhelmingness generally said here, though to be fair I could actually get some use out it if it had inspired me (though ironically the new spiritseer and lieutenant would probably be surplus!). But money is an issue right now and my socks remain un-knocked off.
Also - please beware of flanderising. It's almost an occupational hazard in gaming, but while Saim-Hann may be best known for the Riders, they do have the full suite and besides, the codex explicitly mentions the clans going to war mounted in Wave Serpents; a bit hard to do with a bike!
The salvation aspect is most likely to liberate some soulstones, as usual the Imperium wonders why the Eldar are robbing a museum and equally trope-fully the desperate seer sticks the stones into those mysterious statues in the exhibit... It's a desperate cliché but it is rather cinematic now that I've typed it out.
I agree this one is a little underwhelming, but I might still pick it up for the Inceptors, it'll also give me the starting of a CWE army should I ever want to build one up. We can't be angry at this, it's just a discount box. They can't all be relevant to everyone.
phillv85 wrote: I agree this one is a little underwhelming, but I might still pick it up for the Inceptors, it'll also give me the starting of a CWE army should I ever want to build one up. We can't be angry at this, it's just a discount box. They can't all be relevant to everyone.
Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt [...] that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYGGW.
.
err not at all, this is pretty consistant actually. think back to Forgebane... "a new cryoptic model.. WITH AWESOME NEW WAR GEAR!" then Tooth and Claw.. "A new space wolf Battleleader mini... WITH AWESOME NEW WARGEAR!" it's a little trick to make the mini more desirable. by giving it a new wargear option that was previously unavaliable. it gives a bit of a push to sales from people whom otherwise might shrug is off and say "meh I got a finecast one already"
It is what it is, a discount box probably more aimed at beginners or people interested in something a bit removed from their usual stuff but at a massive discount so snatching up this box isn't as massive an investment or loss. The flimsy linked missions and fluff are a bonus.
dan2026 wrote: If they really don't care about Aspect Warriors they should do away with them. It's silly at this point. We have:
Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Swooping Hawks
Warp Spiders
Dark Reapers
Fire Dragons
Rangers
Shining Spears
That's 8 units that they barely acknowledge exist anymore.
I think they indeed want to forget those ever existed - the Aspects were great in the days when nearly everything was a metal model, as every model could be unique, so no problem that every aspect is completely different in looks from all the others. Nowadays though, Eldar would need another 8 plastic boxes on top of the plastics they already have. If there'd been like 2-4 aspects besides the Dire Avengers, and those had broadly similar looks so they could do combined boxes, I'd say we'd have seen them in plastic already.
I'm willing to bet a lot of money that Jes had the designs and probably sculpts of new Aspects done years ago and they just haven't had the opportunity to release them yet. They've said that when they released the updated Wraithguard, it was either those or new jetbikes, they couldn't do both. Then they released the jetbikes a year or so later when they had an appropriate release slot. Guess what the next candidate is? Aspects. However, the aspects need to be a big release considering how many kits they'll need (4-5 at a minimum if they do dual kits) and how weird it would be to leave some out. So it's probably not the easiest thing to find a spot in the production schedule for them. I don't think Eldar are the biggest sellers either so would take a back seat to Imperium stuff for example.
Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the entire range has still very good sculpts
Then we have the spiritseer, a new sculpt [...] that's armed with a weapon (sword) that's nowhere on its profile as an option, which is a pretty significant deviation from an increasingly-WYSIWYGGW.
.
err not at all, this is pretty consistant actually. think back to Forgebane... "a new cryoptic model.. WITH AWESOME NEW WAR GEAR!" then Tooth and Claw.. "A new space wolf Battleleader mini... WITH AWESOME NEW WARGEAR!" it's a little trick to make the mini more desirable. by giving it a new wargear option that was previously unavaliable. it gives a bit of a push to sales from people whom otherwise might shrug is off and say "meh I got a finecast one already"
Even more he's not wielding a sword but a knife, it's not even the 1st model depicting like that (there is a previous Farseer model with such a knife) wich it's more for cosmetic and pose than just a general weapon per se if i'm not right
Warhams-77 wrote: Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the entire range has still very good sculpts
Does a plastic Farseer not count as redoing already available models?
Ill definitely pick the Lieutenant up, as the primaris line is so small its nice to have new base models for character conversions etc.
One thing i will say though- they have a posing issue, all of the characters they've done so far are incredibly lacking in any sort of dynamism, the wolf one is maybe the exception but still, none of the models done so far have been better than something you could build yourself using older marine arms and weapons, i could link to at least 5 ive done myself to prove this point.
Im not moaning about getting new models, its awesome, but I am still waiting for that "knock your socks off" primaris model that i dont instantly think "Now what should i chop off first to improve this model?"
I think the reason they use Saim-hann is because they are the poster people for Aeldari much as Ultramarines are for Space Marines.
Regarding sculpts I think they could combine some of the kits a bit. The Aspect sculpts don't all need to be separate kits.
However, as someone mentioned, they will probably focus more on the Ynnari. What would be interesting is if they make dual kits for Ynnari that could be used by Craftworlds as their own Aspect kits.
Process wrote: Ill definitely pick the Lieutenant up, as the primaris line is so small its nice to have new base models for character conversions etc.
One thing i will say though- they have a posing issue, all of the characters they've done so far are incredibly lacking in any sort of dynamism, the wolf one is maybe the exception but still, none of the models done so far have been better than something you could build yourself using older marine arms and weapons, i could link to at least 5 ive done myself to prove this point.
Im not moaning about getting new models, its awesome, but I am still waiting for that "knock your socks off" primaris model that i dont instantly think "Now what should i chop off first to improve this model?"
the Primaris Space Wolf Battle leader is head and shoulders the best of the Primaris Lt models. although he's basicly just a upscaled old style marine. the bolt carbine is just a boltgun basicly.
the Primaris Space Wolf Battle leader is head and shoulders the best of the Primaris Lt models. although he's basicly just a upscaled old style marine. the bolt carbine is just a boltgun basicly.
Well, the stat line variation on all of the new and old bolt weapons has been incredibly poorly executed (why is there 2 completely diff weapons with a 24" A2 S4 profile?), but thats a rules conversation.
Atleast with the wolf leader it seems they thought just a little about posing- instead of doing yet another walking forward, weapon held high in front with trailing arm holding ranged weapon- see gravis captian, BA lieutenant, chaplain, new lieutenant- its literally the same pose for all 4. Who is signing off on this gak? As a designer its killing me
lord_blackfang wrote: Easiest way to do plastic aspects would be a starter set. 3-4 monopose squads on the cheap.
Well if the Sisters plastic is anything to go by its about 2 years from drawings to reality so if they have not yet started its going to be a long time.
Stormonu wrote: What does frustrate me is the lack of effort put into the campaign book. The one for Forgebane had two pages of (bad) fluff, 3 scenarios and outdated-at-the-time-of-print statblocks. I really wish GW would put some effort into the story and campaign portions rather than the obvious throwaway "something to do with your discounted miniatures" stuff they're tossing in the box. They ought to do something like the old days - throw in something like Renegade, Calth and Prospero and put *some* effort into a mini-game to even more use out of the minis put in the box and components worth more than binning five seconds after pulling out the sprues.
It would be nice, yes, but you can probably thank morons who at the time of release of these were gloating loudly en masse how genius they are because they seen past GW 'marketing ploy' and bought the box just for minis, tossing the (quite nice) board games without even trying it. After second or third time of seeing that, would you really be giving a damn anymore if you were a GW, especially seeing the games were made out of good, certainly not cheap materials? This is probably why these were discontinued, cheap sets sell just as well, so why try so hard?
BrianDavion wrote: err not at all, this is pretty consistant actually. think back to Forgebane... "a new cryoptic model.. WITH AWESOME NEW WAR GEAR!" then Tooth and Claw.. "A new space wolf Battleleader mini... WITH AWESOME NEW WARGEAR!" it's a little trick to make the mini more desirable. by giving it a new wargear option that was previously unavaliable. it gives a bit of a push to sales from people whom otherwise might shrug is off and say "meh I got a finecast one already"
Then why they didn't give lieutenant anything new? Like, I don't know, at least frakking plasma pistol? There are at least 3 other Primaris character minis with the exact same loadout now, and that's just counting vanilla primaris, 5 if you put tiny bit of effort into converting BA/DA one...
dan2026 wrote: If they really don't care about Aspect Warriors they should do away with them. It's silly at this point. We have:
Howling Banshees
Striking Scorpions
Swooping Hawks
Warp Spiders
Dark Reapers
Fire Dragons
Rangers
Shining Spears
That's 8 units that they barely acknowledge exist anymore.
Yeah, it's not like most of these had broken OP rules for at least, what, three editions now, selling like hotcakes and being present in virtually every Eldar army, eh?
If they really wanted to forget about them, they could have pried Phil "why is everyone mad I buffed already borderline OP codex into stratosphere?" Kelly pen from these, and told someone actually competent to tone them down into being average, then they would really rarely see play...
Stormonu wrote: There's nothing wrong with a boring release, especially if it's a package deal that nets a decent discount. I'd be on board for grabbing this if I hadn't just bought a Dark Imperium and Eldar SC myself. Unfortunately, I'm sitting on too large of a pile of minis as it is, as they are both armies I'm interested in.
I just wish they would make it more than an "discounted" box set.
What does frustrate me is the lack of effort put into the campaign book. The one for Forgebane had two pages of (bad) fluff, 3 scenarios and outdated-at-the-time-of-print statblocks. I really wish GW would put some effort into the story and campaign portions rather than the obvious throwaway "something to do with your discounted miniatures" stuff they're tossing in the box. They ought to do something like the old days - throw in something like Renegade, Calth and Prospero and put *some* effort into a mini-game to even more use out of the minis put in the box and components worth more than binning five seconds after pulling out the sprues.
actually ya know what the campaign book in Fang and Talon reminds me of? the little "learn to play" scenerios from dark vengence so that might be the idea behind em
Irbis wrote: It would be nice, yes, but you can probably thank morons who at the time of release of these were gloating loudly en masse how genius they are because they seen past GW 'marketing ploy' and bought the box just for minis, tossing the (quite nice) board games without even trying it. After second or third time of seeing that, would you really be giving a damn anymore if you were a GW, especially seeing the games were made out of good, certainly not cheap materials? This is probably why these were discontinued, cheap sets sell just as well, so why try so hard?
Or it could be that these are just you know discount boxes for models? That GW has had habit of releasing past few editions. 2 forces, full sprues, then one specific leader for both(later released on it's own), simple campaign. Since GW is hell bent on making sure they don't reduce existing price only way they CAN make it cheaper is release new boxes like these. It also works as casting sprues is basically free for GW and this way they can get people buy models they might not intend. Some might even end up starting specific army! Certainly I had no particular interest in getting ad mech or necron models but then came forgebane with nice discounts as well as the armigers. So now I have still mechanicum(still undecided what to do) and necrons(which I did indeed start into full army...).
Maybe these are these because GW has been doing these kind of boxes for a long time and it works doing what they are doing. These aren't even supposed to be stand alone games.
Nor are they starters sets despite people refering them as such. It doesnt' have rulebook and hell even GW doesn't claim they are starter sets and instead refer this as battle box.
the Primaris Space Wolf Battle leader is head and shoulders the best of the Primaris Lt models. although he's basicly just a upscaled old style marine. the bolt carbine is just a boltgun basicly.
Well, the stat line variation on all of the new and old bolt weapons has been incredibly poorly executed (why is there 2 completely diff weapons with a 24" A2 S4 profile?), but thats a rules conversation.
Atleast with the wolf leader it seems they thought just a little about posing- instead of doing yet another walking forward, weapon held high in front with trailing arm holding ranged weapon- see gravis captian, BA lieutenant, chaplain, new lieutenant- its literally the same pose for all 4. Who is signing off on this gak? As a designer its killing me
Probably because they have two cool models for these weapons with no compelling reason to call them the same thing or give them different profiles.
Irbis wrote: It would be nice, yes, but you can probably thank morons who at the time of release of these were gloating loudly en masse how genius they are because they seen past GW 'marketing ploy' and bought the box just for minis, tossing the (quite nice) board games without even trying it. After second or third time of seeing that, would you really be giving a damn anymore if you were a GW, especially seeing the games were made out of good, certainly not cheap materials? This is probably why these were discontinued, cheap sets sell just as well, so why try so hard?
Or it could be that these are just you know discount boxes for models? That GW has had habit of releasing past few editions. 2 forces, full sprues, then one specific leader for both(later released on it's own), simple campaign. Since GW is hell bent on making sure they don't reduce existing price only way they CAN make it cheaper is release new boxes like these. It also works as casting sprues is basically free for GW and this way they can get people buy models they might not intend. Some might even end up starting specific army! Certainly I had no particular interest in getting ad mech or necron models but then came forgebane with nice discounts as well as the armigers. So now I have still mechanicum(still undecided what to do) and necrons(which I did indeed start into full army...).
Maybe these are these because GW has been doing these kind of boxes for a long time and it works doing what they are doing. These aren't even supposed to be stand alone games.
Nor are they starters sets despite people refering them as such. It doesnt' have rulebook and hell even GW doesn't claim they are starter sets and instead refer this as battle box.
My personal theory is that these boxes are shelf clearers paired with a mold payment device. You pair some in demand models, with some out of demand models, with some new to the range "exclusives".
People are drawn for the new shinies (crypteck, armigers, wolf guy, abberants/abomminant) and the "in demand" units (wraiths, redemptor/aggressors, metomorph hybrids, wave serpents, inceptors) but also get the "tax" units (pretty much all of the troop choices).
The tax units have likely long since made their costs back but bump the box value up, the in demand units also have likely already made their costs back but serve as an additional draw, the exclusives sure will get added to the range later- but this way their tooling and development costs are likely covered within the set's initial run- so when they're released down the line as an "overpriced" standalone they're basically pure profit.
My personal theory is that these boxes are shelf clearers paired with a mold payment device.
Do they need to do this? Is it cheaper to write, layout and print the booklet, design, print and manufacture the boxes and fit it into the release schedule, than to just toss unsold sprues into the grinder and make something else? It's not like these are resin models or carved wooden pieces that are non-recyclable. Every time a box like this comes out, someone claims it's just a way to get rid of inventory, and no-one has ever justified that assertion.
As someone who only has a handful of Eldar models I have to say this box set is actually pretty appealing to me. Particularly since I'm going for Iyanden.
The primaris will give a nice little boost to my vanilla marines and Blood Angels, as well.
I was on the fence about the Kill Team starter (mainly interested in the terrain which, even then, I didn't technically *need*) but I'm probably going to have to track down one of these.
Eldarsif wrote: I think the reason they use Saim-hann is because they are the poster people for Aeldari much as Ultramarines are for Space Marines.
Regarding sculpts I think they could combine some of the kits a bit. The Aspect sculpts don't all need to be separate kits.
However, as someone mentioned, they will probably focus more on the Ynnari. What would be interesting is if they make dual kits for Ynnari that could be used by Craftworlds as their own Aspect kits.
The Saim hann is just continuity I think, kinda like you mentioned. They've been the Craftworld of choice on all the boxsets so they want the army to be quickly identifiable from a glance to a customer. makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Let's say Mommy comes into store looking for new gift and she has bought Eldar for Timmy before. She may not know exactly what she is looking for, but she may identify the colours on the box to think "I think he plays with these guys". Can't fault them on that.
Eldarsif wrote: I think the reason they use Saim-hann is because they are the poster people for Aeldari much as Ultramarines are for Space Marines.
Regarding sculpts I think they could combine some of the kits a bit. The Aspect sculpts don't all need to be separate kits.
However, as someone mentioned, they will probably focus more on the Ynnari. What would be interesting is if they make dual kits for Ynnari that could be used by Craftworlds as their own Aspect kits.
The Saim hann is just continuity I think, kinda like you mentioned. They've been the Craftworld of choice on all the boxsets so they want the army to be quickly identifiable from a glance to a customer. makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Let's say Mommy comes into store looking for new gift and she has bought Eldar for Timmy before. She may not know exactly what she is looking for, but she may identify the colours on the box to think "I think he plays with these guys". Can't fault them on that.
I may still be expanding my Eldar with this set
Saim-Hann are also the focus of the upcoming "Wild Rider" novel discussing the Rise of the Ynnari.
Eldarsif wrote: I think the reason they use Saim-hann is because they are the poster people for Aeldari much as Ultramarines are for Space Marines.
Regarding sculpts I think they could combine some of the kits a bit. The Aspect sculpts don't all need to be separate kits.
However, as someone mentioned, they will probably focus more on the Ynnari. What would be interesting is if they make dual kits for Ynnari that could be used by Craftworlds as their own Aspect kits.
The Saim hann is just continuity I think, kinda like you mentioned. They've been the Craftworld of choice on all the boxsets so they want the army to be quickly identifiable from a glance to a customer. makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Let's say Mommy comes into store looking for new gift and she has bought Eldar for Timmy before. She may not know exactly what she is looking for, but she may identify the colours on the box to think "I think he plays with these guys". Can't fault them on that.
I may still be expanding my Eldar with this set
True true. Hell, I'll be expanding both my Craftworlds and Dark Angels with this, even if I am a bit overflowing with gray ocean right now.
I’m kinda interested in picking this up myself as well. I have an Eldar force (and who wouldn’t say no to another Wave Serpent? ) and I also have a growing collection of Primaris. However, I couldn’t care less about the Guardians.
I also agree with Lemondish. The 10 Guardians are in the set, simply to give the Marine player a sense of achievement when they kill them – cos those units sure as hell aren’t going kill the Wave Serpent and will just get melted by the Wraith Guard waiting patiently inside.
My personal theory is that these boxes are shelf clearers paired with a mold payment device.
Do they need to do this? Is it cheaper to write, layout and print the booklet, design, print and manufacture the boxes and fit it into the release schedule, than to just toss unsold sprues into the grinder and make something else? It's not like these are resin models or carved wooden pieces that are non-recyclable. Every time a box like this comes out, someone claims it's just a way to get rid of inventory, and no-one has ever justified that assertion.
Poor word choice on my part, I meant more these are used as vehicle to sell units that likely don't sell well individually but that, when you look at their life cycle, probably offer quite a high profit margin;
Necron warriors, Eldar guardians, genestealers are all very old models that likely made their development costs back years ago.
Not saying its a way of getting rid of inventory- just saying its a great way of shifting models that wouldn't sell nearly as well on their own, adding maximum value to a box at minimum cost,
Kawauso wrote: As someone who only has a handful of Eldar models I have to say this box set is actually pretty appealing to me. Particularly since I'm going for Iyanden.
The primaris will give a nice little boost to my vanilla marines and Blood Angels, as well.
I was on the fence about the Kill Team starter (mainly interested in the terrain which, even then, I didn't technically *need*) but I'm probably going to have to track down one of these.
This is the case for me, as well. Been focusing on getting a ton of Deathwatch Primaris stuff ready to go (so I can stop proxying my Blood Ravens in their place...). Boxes like this are PERFECT.
Just need to find someone to split the Eldar half with, haha
My personal theory is that these boxes are shelf clearers paired with a mold payment device.
Do they need to do this? Is it cheaper to write, layout and print the booklet, design, print and manufacture the boxes and fit it into the release schedule, than to just toss unsold sprues into the grinder and make something else? It's not like these are resin models or carved wooden pieces that are non-recyclable. Every time a box like this comes out, someone claims it's just a way to get rid of inventory, and no-one has ever justified that assertion.
While I'm not in the habit of making such claims, not the least because I don't know or care why and how GW selects the models they put into these kinds of boxes, with the recent production bottlenecks they had to deal with it might be convenient to put units into boxed sets that they have excess stock of, to ease pressure on their production.
I'm happy to have a release coming up that I don't really want. I feel as though I've been getting hit in the wallet by a lot of recent releases. I'll probably just pluck that Power Sword Marine off eBay or something since it is (to my knowledge) the only Primaries to come with a Power Sword (sans Dark Imperium Gravis Armor Captain.)
TheGreatBeard wrote: I'm happy to have a release coming up that I don't really want. I feel as though I've been getting hit in the wallet by a lot of recent releases. I'll probably just pluck that Power Sword Marine off eBay or something since it is (to my knowledge) the only Primaries to come with a Power Sword (sans Dark Imperium Gravis Armor Captain.)
Dark Angels Primaris Lieutenant Zakariah and the BA lieutenant also have them.
TheGreatBeard wrote: I'm happy to have a release coming up that I don't really want. I feel as though I've been getting hit in the wallet by a lot of recent releases. I'll probably just pluck that Power Sword Marine off eBay or something since it is (to my knowledge) the only Primaries to come with a Power Sword (sans Dark Imperium Gravis Armor Captain.)
Dark Angels Primaris Lieutenant Zakariah and the BA lieutenant also have them.
TheGreatBeard wrote: I'm happy to have a release coming up that I don't really want. I feel as though I've been getting hit in the wallet by a lot of recent releases. I'll probably just pluck that Power Sword Marine off eBay or something since it is (to my knowledge) the only Primaries to come with a Power Sword (sans Dark Imperium Gravis Armor Captain.)
Dark Angels Primaris Lieutenant Zakariah and the BA lieutenant also have them.
Spoiler:
And one of the Dark Imperium lieutenants.
And technically the 30th Anniversary Veteran Sergeant, though his is sheathed.
And I suppose this also includes the upcoming Conquest one.
TheGreatBeard wrote: I'm happy to have a release coming up that I don't really want. I feel as though I've been getting hit in the wallet by a lot of recent releases. I'll probably just pluck that Power Sword Marine off eBay or something since it is (to my knowledge) the only Primaries to come with a Power Sword (sans Dark Imperium Gravis Armor Captain.)
Dark Angels Primaris Lieutenant Zakariah and the BA lieutenant also have them.
Spoiler:
And one of the Dark Imperium lieutenants.
And technically the 30th Anniversary Veteran Sergeant, though his is sheathed.
And I suppose this also includes the upcoming Conquest one.
Also the Dark Angels and Ultramarines Primaris upgrade sprues.
My personal theory is that these boxes are shelf clearers paired with a mold payment device. You pair some in demand models, with some out of demand models, with some new to the range "exclusives".
People are drawn for the new shinies (crypteck, armigers, wolf guy, abberants/abomminant) and the "in demand" units (wraiths, redemptor/aggressors, metomorph hybrids, wave serpents, inceptors) but also get the "tax" units (pretty much all of the troop choices).
The tax units have likely long since made their costs back but bump the box value up, the in demand units also have likely already made their costs back but serve as an additional draw, the exclusives sure will get added to the range later- but this way their tooling and development costs are likely covered within the set's initial run- so when they're released down the line as an "overpriced" standalone they're basically pure profit.
Doubtful they really clear shelves. GW is unlikely to have big pile of sprues enough to make up these kind of boxes. Storage costs money so they try to keep their storage to minimum needed. This is why stuff periodically go out of stock. Ideally they would be producing stuff at exact same rate as they keep ordered.
However out of demand is likely playing effect in that they don't want to put all the good selling items to discount boxes. That way there would be hard to sell anything for full price! However old kit(remember kits sell most of their lifetime sales in first few months...) that isn't selling all that much is good candinate to pad discount box. It gives nice discount done by casting plastic sprues that is practically free and wasn't going to sell anything anyway.
Those clampack sprues for the new characters are interesting. They look to be considerably easier to convert than some of the early examples. Could be kitbashed with a Farseer to achieve some extra variety in poses.
Haighus wrote: Those clampack sprues for the new characters are interesting. They look to be considerably easier to convert than some of the early examples. Could be kitbashed with a Farseer to achieve some extra variety in poses.
I have a sneaking suspicion that showing us the sprue is meant to suggest this very thing.
Unless I'm mistaken and totally missed when they showed sprues for all the new special box set only characters, which admittedly I could have missed in my eternal drunken stupor.
Would it really kill GW to include two heads in their character sprues. I;d love to see some weapon choices, but I'm not silly enough to expect that, but even the ETB Stormcast have some choices in building.
Haighus wrote: Those clampack sprues for the new characters are interesting. They look to be considerably easier to convert than some of the early examples. Could be kitbashed with a Farseer to achieve some extra variety in poses.
The marine LT is also as close to perfect as we are likely to see for conversion options. Both arms are flat mounts with the torso, shoulder pads and head separate. Real easy to change him up a lot.
Chairman Aeon wrote: Would it really kill GW to include two heads in their character sprues. I;d love to see some weapon choices, but I'm not silly enough to expect that, but even the ETB Stormcast have some choices in building.
Two heads and two weapon options isn't unheard of. Space Marine ones usually have a helmeted and unhelmeted option. I don't know of any other examples, but the IG Commissar has a bolt pistol and a plasma pistol as options.
I don't play any of the faction, but at least price wise the deal seems to be very good.
I do have a question of sorts tha relates to those dual faction boxs, is there something like a timetable for them? So someone who plays GK like me or some other less often update faction could see when stuff for his army is going to be for sale.
Haighus wrote: Those clampack sprues for the new characters are interesting. They look to be considerably easier to convert than some of the early examples. Could be kitbashed with a Farseer to achieve some extra variety in poses.
The marine LT is also as close to perfect as we are likely to see for conversion options. Both arms are flat mounts with the torso, shoulder pads and head separate. Real easy to change him up a lot.
Yes, you can give him different looking power sword! (Converting is way more fun if you actually have a selection of weapons to choose from.)
Haighus wrote: Those clampack sprues for the new characters are interesting. They look to be considerably easier to convert than some of the early examples. Could be kitbashed with a Farseer to achieve some extra variety in poses.
The marine LT is also as close to perfect as we are likely to see for conversion options. Both arms are flat mounts with the torso, shoulder pads and head separate. Real easy to change him up a lot.
Yes, you can give him different looking power sword! (Converting is way more fun if you actually have a selection of weapons to choose from.)
With a little work from a bits box, he could be a captain. Some fancy shoulderpads go a long way for that. Probably easier to fit a ‘fist and plasma pistol on him then get your hands on that captain. Primaris arms can be swapped in from other kits like the intercessors, of you want him playing with a wrist com or pointing.
I’m not saying it’s perfect, but it’s not one of those monobuild kits where you get half an arm as part of the torso etc. Arm, head, shoulder swaps make for a lot of play on how you build him. Even just posing should make it look like they are not all the same.
I’ve use DA swords, relic blades, and terminator swords to gear up primaris sergeants. Plenty of options out there.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire.
But at least you can personalize you guy to match your chapter and tastes, or use the parts to kit-bash other units (like captains which have a few (but not many) options. So many of the mono-build kits have zero options for personalization unless you are fluent with a hobby knife.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire
I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.
Consider all there Primaris chapter upgrade sprues. They could easily make one generic Primaris upgrade sprue which comes with some extra weapons to customise your characters and sergeants with. You could easily fit a good selection of weapons in one small sprue of similar size than the chapter upgrade sprues.
I can't help but feel that GW is putting so many of these box sets together thanks to the relative raging success of Forgebane. But, let's all remember that Forgebane had two huge Knight models in it that a LOT of people were excited to try. I saw people sell the Admech and Necron parts of those box sets for pennies just so they could have an excuse to get more of the Warglaives.
Tooth and Claw had Abberrants. Neat. Much awaited for GSC players. The Space Wolf Battle Leader was cool, too.
This one has the same Primaris stuff we've seen for a year and a half and Eldar stuff that is not new at all... all so they can eek out an excuse to update the Spiritseer to plastic. The Lieutenant wasn't needed. Just plain and simple, though I'm sure lots of people will be happy to have that extra option for some variety.
This is clearly the weakest of the box sets. I really hope it doesn't become the pattern into the future. I want the Lieutenant, but I have to wait months before it releases separately, because I see zero point in going through the trouble of trying to hock a bunch of Eldar and Space Marine models I don't need.
Yeah. Just really don't want this trend to continue. If you're going to give us big box sets to sell new models, make them more significant. If they're just characters, just release the characters.
Crimson wrote: Consider all there Primaris chapter upgrade sprues. They could easily make one generic Primaris upgrade sprue which comes with some extra weapons to customise your characters and sergeants with. You could easily fit a good selection of weapons in one small sprue of similar size than the chapter upgrade sprues.
I think the upgrade sprues are an under-utilised concept, and a great way of adding little upgrades to already serviceable kit. An example being heavy stubbers- I think Guard infantry units should be able to take heavy stubbers as a special weapon option (instead of a flamer etc.), which allows for some thematic squad builds. However, this will never happen whilst there is no model. An upgrade sprue could provide that model, and all is sorted. They also can provide a lot more variety to model collections, like with the Space Marine examples (I am dissappointed they never rounded out the First Founding Chapter sprues).
drbored wrote: I can't help but feel that GW is putting so many of these box sets together thanks to the relative raging success of Forgebane. But, let's all remember that Forgebane had two huge Knight models in it that a LOT of people were excited to try. I saw people sell the Admech and Necron parts of those box sets for pennies just so they could have an excuse to get more of the Warglaives.
Tooth and Claw had Abberrants. Neat. Much awaited for GSC players. The Space Wolf Battle Leader was cool, too.
This one has the same Primaris stuff we've seen for a year and a half and Eldar stuff that is not new at all... all so they can eek out an excuse to update the Spiritseer to plastic. The Lieutenant wasn't needed. Just plain and simple, though I'm sure lots of people will be happy to have that extra option for some variety.
This is clearly the weakest of the box sets. I really hope it doesn't become the pattern into the future. I want the Lieutenant, but I have to wait months before it releases separately, because I see zero point in going through the trouble of trying to hock a bunch of Eldar and Space Marine models I don't need.
Yeah. Just really don't want this trend to continue. If you're going to give us big box sets to sell new models, make them more significant. If they're just characters, just release the characters.
I think the fact this LT model can be used in every marine army makes it superior to the GSC box. Not to mention how hot Eldar are. This box is better than Tooth and Claw in that way. I don't think it's fair to say it's "clearly" anything.
And why can't we have both? Big box sets for beginners or people looking to seriously upgrade their collection, and then toos out the individual characters in a separate release later on. Everyone wins.
Crimson wrote: Consider all there Primaris chapter upgrade sprues. They could easily make one generic Primaris upgrade sprue which comes with some extra weapons to customise your characters and sergeants with. You could easily fit a good selection of weapons in one small sprue of similar size than the chapter upgrade sprues.
I'd like to see a "Primaris Commander" kit ala the lcassic SM commander box, which was easily one of the best HQ packs GW ever put out
drbored wrote: I can't help but feel that GW is putting so many of these box sets together thanks to the relative raging success of Forgebane. But, let's all remember that Forgebane had two huge Knight models in it that a LOT of people were excited to try. I saw people sell the Admech and Necron parts of those box sets for pennies just so they could have an excuse to get more of the Warglaives.
.
Umm these boxes are not new idea in 8th...there have been these kind of boxes coming up steadily long time now
drbored wrote: I can't help but feel that GW is putting so many of these box sets together thanks to the relative raging success of Forgebane. But, let's all remember that Forgebane had two huge Knight models in it that a LOT of people were excited to try. I saw people sell the Admech and Necron parts of those box sets for pennies just so they could have an excuse to get more of the Warglaives.
.
Umm these boxes are not new idea in 8th...there have been these kind of boxes coming up steadily long time now
they HAVE been coming at a much more rapid pace but that can be said about anything in 8th edition
This box is actually a good buy if you also add a few Deathwatch upgrade sprues (actually, you only need 1 and can just sell the Primaris Lt). Deathwatch vs Eldar seems good to me.
drbored wrote: I can't help but feel that GW is putting so many of these box sets together thanks to the relative raging success of Forgebane. But, let's all remember that Forgebane had two huge Knight models in it that a LOT of people were excited to try. I saw people sell the Admech and Necron parts of those box sets for pennies just so they could have an excuse to get more of the Warglaives.
.
Umm these boxes are not new idea in 8th...there have been these kind of boxes coming up steadily long time now
they HAVE been coming at a much more rapid pace but that can be said about anything in 8th edition
True but point is forgebane didn't cause. These have been selling well long.
Indeed lead times makes that theory impossible. These were in design cycle when fb was released. Gw does these because they work. Adding some old kits is essentially free for them so easy discount box that can be used to get people start new armies or buy more than they would have due to discount.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire
I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.
But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire
I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.
But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.
I'm not averse to bits buying myself. I wouldn't necessarily agree with it being inexpensive though. £1 here, £2 there, and befoe you know it you've spent £20 (enough to buy a whole squad of great minis, 10+ in number, with multiple gear choices, and you've just spent that amount to convert two minis, which you've already bought at some reasonable expense already).
Warhams-77 wrote: Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the entire range has still very good sculpts
Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?
Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...
Mymearan wrote: Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...
Mymearan wrote: Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...
Thanks for the roundup . Yeah, I remember the "not Goodwin" resculpts and... yeah, not good. I'd like to believe that we could see redone "Goodwin-style" plastic Aspects as part of the KT line myself.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire
I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.
But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.
I'm not averse to bits buying myself. I wouldn't necessarily agree with it being inexpensive though. £1 here, £2 there, and befoe you know it you've spent £20 (enough to buy a whole squad of great minis, 10+ in number, with multiple gear choices, and you've just spent that amount to convert two minis, which you've already bought at some reasonable expense already).
But that's an extreme scenario and you know it. Most of the time all we're talking about is the opportunity to choose one weapon from a selection for one or two characters, which is a couple of quid, and a lot of the time not even that since anyone who's been hobbying for more than a year or two should have a reasonable bitz box to draw upon. Sure if you want to push things as far as you can it's possible to blow loads of money on bitz - I've done it for INQ28 and Mordheim projects before - but that's not typical. It's certainly not a common enough occurrence to provide a sound argument that No Model, No Rules is a positive thing, or even the lesser of two evils.
Warhams-77 wrote: Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the entire range has still very good sculpts
Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?
Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire
I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.
But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.
I'm not averse to bits buying myself. I wouldn't necessarily agree with it being inexpensive though. £1 here, £2 there, and befoe you know it you've spent £20 (enough to buy a whole squad of great minis, 10+ in number, with multiple gear choices, and you've just spent that amount to convert two minis, which you've already bought at some reasonable expense already).
But that's an extreme scenario and you know it. Most of the time all we're talking about is the opportunity to choose one weapon from a selection for one or two characters, which is a couple of quid, and a lot of the time not even that since anyone who's been hobbying for more than a year or two should have a reasonable bitz box to draw upon. Sure if you want to push things as far as you can it's possible to blow loads of money on bitz - I've done it for INQ28 and Mordheim projects before - but that's not typical. It's certainly not a common enough occurrence to provide a sound argument that No Model, No Rules is a positive thing, or even the lesser of two evils.
Sure. No models no rules is absolutely not the way to go as far as I'm concerned. I've spent many an hour converting minis, back in the days of white metal and even lead (dremels, jewel saws, and many blisters). My conversions were a source of pride. They were actually difficult to do and quite uncommon, not like with plastics, we have it easy now. Just saying, bits can get expensive
But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.
It absolutely IS expensive. I'm starting with an expensive model kit already (unless you think this is a cheap hobby), over half of which won't actually be used, and I need to support it with another series of expensive secondary purchases. These are purchases made outside of my local hobby scene, or whose selection and quality are always suspect, or whose use disqualifies me from tournaments in my immediate area, all in order to equip a single unit with the basic, standard loadout that is most effective for the points. The cost very easily blooms to 1.5 to 2x the cost for the actual model kit, let's not even factor in the time needed to gather these items. That is unacceptable. Supporting that is unacceptable.
Drop the price of the base kit to represent the missing bits and maybe we can start talking about what is or is not cost effective.
I could maybe support loosening the rules on this for characters because, after all, they're but one model. That would honestly be an acceptable middle ground. But I will vehemently fight against any suggestion that matched play wargear be loosened to include bits not found in that model kit, or readily available via an upgrade sprue. I sincerely hope GW continues with the direction they're going here and is careful to not alienate their new players this way. The last thing I want to see is people abandoning the hobby because they need three kits to make one viable unit, or forever be locked to a subpar unit build.
This is ultimately a rules issue to a large extent. Upgrade sprues could absolutely resolve many of these issues, but absent any change in direction, I support rigid wargear options until models and bits are available.
Now, upgrade sprues that give you all these options and more? Flippin' love that idea.
But aside from fancy shoulder pads, upgrade sprues rarely include weapons.
But, why though? I mean, you list right there multiple ways to get just about any part you could want or need(and most of them are even legal), it's not difficult or expensive, so what's wrong with being "forced" to order a weapon option from a bitz seller or a third party component maker? I could understand being against it if it was even remotely difficult to do simple weapon swaps or acquire the parts to do so, but it isn't and it's not.
It absolutely IS expensive. I'm starting with an expensive model kit already (unless you think this is a cheap hobby), over half of which won't actually be used, and I need to support it with another series of expensive secondary purchases. These are purchases made outside of my local hobby scene, or whose selection and quality are always suspect, or whose use disqualifies me from tournaments in my immediate area, all in order to equip a single unit with the basic, standard loadout that is most effective for the points. The cost very easily blooms to 1.5 to 2x the cost for the actual model kit, let's not even factor in the time needed to gather these items. That is unacceptable. Supporting that is unacceptable.
Drop the price of the base kit to represent the missing bits and maybe we can start talking about what is or is not cost effective.
I could maybe support loosening the rules on this for characters because, after all, they're but one model. That would honestly be an acceptable middle ground. But I will vehemently fight against any suggestion that matched play wargear be loosened to include bits not found in that model kit, or readily available via an upgrade sprue. I sincerely hope GW continues with the direction they're going here and is careful to not alienate their new players this way. The last thing I want to see is people abandoning the hobby because they need three kits to make one viable unit, or forever be locked to a subpar unit build.
This is ultimately a rules issue to a large extent. Upgrade sprues could absolutely resolve many of these issues, but absent any change in direction, I support rigid wargear options until models and bits are available.
Now, upgrade sprues that give you all these options and more? Flippin' love that idea.
But aside from fancy shoulder pads, upgrade sprues rarely include weapons.
The thing is, bits sellers know what people want (it's pretty obvious to them, they're the ones selling bits, and they see which of their stock doesn't sell, and what flys off the shelf. They're good at putting a premium on bits that you actually want. So that special bit you need, it's not necessarily cheap or easy to source. It's actually sold out, and if it isn't, it's expensive. Another thought I had whilst remembering how tricky it used to be to make unique models when they were all white metal and didn't come with options - I just can't be bothered any more. It's far more easy to pay £2 for an autocannon than it it is to buy some plastic tube, brass rod, plasticard, whatever I need to build it myself (and this kind of speaks to the opposite of what I've just said. Cutting plastic is so much easier that often I'll prefer to just buy a bit. And that can be expensive or it can be cheap - there's no consistency).
What you say about the middle ground approach though - who gets to decide what is and isn't "readily available on a bits sprue" - as you point out, not everyone has equal access to the same stuff. So doesn't this necessitate a hard line one way or the other, making a middle ground unbelievable?
+1 to this. I think we have diverged a bit from the main topic. I personally quite like this box and will purchase it, but I can see why some people feel it’s a little lacklustre
+1 to this. I think we have diverged a bit from the main topic. I personally quite like this box and will purchase it, but I can see why some people feel it’s a little lacklustre
I think I'll get it too. I need more Primaris. Forgebane was great, but I only wanted the Armigers. T&C was great, but I only wanted the Dreadnought. This looks great, and I think I actually want 40% of the contents here. Hopefully I can sell the Eldar and the paper and come out ahead. It's got enough value that I'll happily take the risk, and if I can't unload what I don't need I'll just chuck them on the sprue pile.
Mymearan wrote: Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...
Yeah, a lot of the Goodwin sculpts are pretty timeless. My reaction to the 3rd ed sculpts is a bit mixed - the Scorpions and Fire Dragons were pretty awful, but I like the Hawks and Banshees. I think in the case of the Banshees it's because when I first got into Eldar I got a copy of White Dwarf from when around they were released, and the models in that issue formed my idea of how the eldar should look - so it's the old 2nd ed aesthetic for most things, with the brand new at the time spade-head Banshees and plastic guardians. I never got my hands on any aspect warriors at the time and it's only recently that I've started to build the Biel-Tan army that I always intended to - so in order to avoid Finecast I've been buying up the metals on ebay. The most recent sculpts for most since they're pretty much just updates of the original ones, with the 3rd ed banshees. Generally the most recent sculpts still hold up really well, I think, it's just the material. They barely need to do any sort of redesign, just recreate the models on a plastic sprue and I'd be happy - though I wouldn't say no to more dynamic posing.
I worry that we won't see it though, that they'll go down their recent route of introducing entirely new things rather than redoing kits for old models - so in this case that would be new stuff for Ynnari while leaving the Craftworlds model line to slowly die. Which would be a real shame from my perspective because I love the Craftworlds aesthetic and generally dislike the look of the Dark Eldar and the Ynnari triumvirate models. If the new stuff follows the design cues of the triumvirate, I'm not going to be interested. So it's nice to see the new Spiritseer, even if it's just the tip of the iceberg as far as replacing finecast Eldar goes. If this guy can get a plastic upgrade, maybe we will eventually see new releases for the others too.
Anyway, on topic for this box set - yes it's pretty dull for the most part, but then I don't think it's really pretending to be any more than it is, just a discount box. Great if you want both armies or know somebody who wants to split a set with you, a bit 'meh' otherwise. I haven't picked up any of the other recent box sets, but since I could happily use more of all the craftworlds units, clearly need the spiritseer for my ridiculous Biel-Tan seer collection and could use the Primaris to reinforce my Dark Imperium dudes when I finally get around to picking a chapter and painting them, I'll probably pick one up.
Mymearan wrote: Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...
Yeah, a lot of the Goodwin sculpts are pretty timeless. My reaction to the 3rd ed sculpts is a bit mixed - the Scorpions and Fire Dragons were pretty awful, but I like the Hawks and Banshees. I think in the case of the Banshees it's because when I first got into Eldar I got a copy of White Dwarf from when around they were released, and the models in that issue formed my idea of how the eldar should look - so it's the old 2nd ed aesthetic for most things, with the brand new at the time spade-head Banshees and plastic guardians. I never got my hands on any aspect warriors at the time and it's only recently that I've started to build the Biel-Tan army that I always intended to - so in order to avoid Finecast I've been buying up the metals on ebay. The most recent sculpts for most since they're pretty much just updates of the original ones, with the 3rd ed banshees. Generally the most recent sculpts still hold up really well, I think, it's just the material. They barely need to do any sort of redesign, just recreate the models on a plastic sprue and I'd be happy - though I wouldn't say no to more dynamic posing.
I worry that we won't see it though, that they'll go down their recent route of introducing entirely new things rather than redoing kits for old models - so in this case that would be new stuff for Ynnari while leaving the Craftworlds model line to slowly die. Which would be a real shame from my perspective because I love the Craftworlds aesthetic and generally dislike the look of the Dark Eldar and the Ynnari triumvirate models. If the new stuff follows the design cues of the triumvirate, I'm not going to be interested. So it's nice to see the new Spiritseer, even if it's just the tip of the iceberg as far as replacing finecast Eldar goes. If this guy can get a plastic upgrade, maybe we will eventually see new releases for the others too.
Anyway, on topic for this box set - yes it's pretty dull for the most part, but then I don't think it's really pretending to be any more than it is, just a discount box. Great if you want both armies or know somebody who wants to split a set with you, a bit 'meh' otherwise. I haven't picked up any of the other recent box sets, but since I could happily use more of all the craftworlds units, clearly need the spiritseer for my ridiculous Biel-Tan seer collection and could use the Primaris to reinforce my Dark Imperium dudes when I finally get around to picking a chapter and painting them, I'll probably pick one up.
I hated those first plastic guardians. 10 mono-pose identical models with lasguns instead of surikens. The redshirt gave me the hard sell though and I bought them cos I was about 14 and he managed to convince me. I think they were the only models in the 2nd edition Eldar range that I didn't paint and add to my army, they remained perpetually on the sprue and ended up getting chucked.
/edit - btw if you want to split the box I'll probably put my Eldar up on the dakka trade thread before I try ebay.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire
I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.
You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire
I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.
You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?
$500 is certainly a bit of an exaggeration, but I can see where he is coming from DW vets have the option to have everyone in the squad with the exception of the Sgt equipped with a frag cannon, but only get one in the box or a popular load-out for gaming I've seen is the whole squad equipped with storm bolters and chainswords, neither of which come with the kit. mostly this can be fixed with a bit of bits box diving and buying the rest from b-bay bits sellers. Not $500 worth but still a fair bit more than the cost of the kit on it's own.
What you say about the middle ground approach though - who gets to decide what is and isn't "readily available on a bits sprue" - as you point out, not everyone has equal access to the same stuff. So doesn't this necessitate a hard line one way or the other, making a middle ground unbelievable?
I apologize I wasn't clearer - I meant to say that the middle ground would be to tolerate this "bit hunt" for one off, character models rather than whole squads.
There are so many moving parts to this it's really not feasible to say there's a sufficient middle ground, if I'm to reassess my position here - good point.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire
I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.
You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?
I'm not sure if saying it once is "keep saying it", but it's the extreme example. 1 Kill Team 10 man box, 5 Sternguard boxes for the storm bolters, and two assault squads for the chainswords.
Comes to $484 CAD at my local GW - the owner helped me price it out as the extreme option.
It was a shocking extreme example meant to highlight the lack of official bit support for common builds caused by the reality that one time, at one point, this option was supported on something, so it should always be supported. Don't get too hung up on the number if that's what's bothering you
I think we've pretty clearly beaten this topic to death, though.
What you say about the middle ground approach though - who gets to decide what is and isn't "readily available on a bits sprue" - as you point out, not everyone has equal access to the same stuff. So doesn't this necessitate a hard line one way or the other, making a middle ground unbelievable?
I apologize I wasn't clearer - I meant to say that the middle ground would be to tolerate this "bit hunt" for one off, character models rather than whole squads.
There are so many moving parts to this it's really not feasible to say there's a sufficient middle ground, if I'm to reassess my position here - good point.
Crimson wrote: Yeah, but the problem never was that the models are hard to convert, it is that there is no weapon options to give them to.
I’ll agree to that. No model, No rules needs to go die in a fire
I vehemently disagree with this on account of having to deal with the opposite extreme - DW vets. Because a model exists, somewhere, it's an option - and it hurts twice as much when that option is the absolute best wargear choice, hands down...but the bits are spread out across $500 worth of kits.
I'd support loosening the rules, but if I had to choose which extreme to lean towards, I would much rather prefer being in a spot with limited choices that are included in the kit versus a myriad of choices that force one to turn to eBay, recasters, third party sources, or dark forbidden magics.
You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?
I'm not sure if saying it once is "keep saying it", but it's the extreme example. 1 Kill Team 10 man box, 5 Sternguard boxes for the storm bolters, and two assault squads for the chainswords.
Comes to $484 CAD at my local GW - the owner helped me price it out as the extreme option.
It was a shocking extreme example meant to highlight the lack of official bit support for common builds caused by the reality that one time, at one point, this option was supported on something, so it should always be supported. Don't get too hung up on the number if that's what's bothering you
I think we've pretty clearly beaten this topic to death, though.
AndrewGPaul wrote:I would have thought two Terminator Squad boxes for the storm bolters would be a better option.
As AndrewGPaul said, you could probably just use the Terminators and cut the hands off the Storm Bolters. Or, just use the Sternguard kits, mixed with the Assault Marine kits as your Deathwatch Veterans.
You keep saying this - what is this $500 option, specifically?
$500 is certainly a bit of an exaggeration, but I can see where he is coming from DW vets have the option to have everyone in the squad with the exception of the Sgt equipped with a frag cannon, but only get one in the box or a popular load-out for gaming I've seen is the whole squad equipped with storm bolters and chainswords, neither of which come with the kit. mostly this can be fixed with a bit of bits box diving and buying the rest from b-bay bits sellers. Not $500 worth but still a fair bit more than the cost of the kit on it's own.
Ah I see. He's doing the "anything but the most absolutely optimised/OP build is garbage" thing. Ah well, more power to him, but I'm not terribly sympathetic. Better more options than NMNR. And feth the idea of invalidating my existing models because some people want to min-max in a new version of the rules and/or can't/won't go to the effort of converting a few figures.
Warhams-77 wrote: Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the entire range has still very good sculpts
Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?
Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.
Yeah, if you want "current, plastic sculpts of power armored models holding bolters" you've got
But those whiny xenos players are allllllllllways asking for MORE plastic sculpts, I mean, GOD, isn't 2/4 of your troops choices in plastic at all good enough? Bunch of entitled jerks.
Warhams-77 wrote: Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the entire range has still very good sculpts
Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?
Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.
Yeah, if you want "current, plastic sculpts of power armored models holding bolters" you've got
But those whiny xenos players are allllllllllways asking for MORE plastic sculpts, I mean, GOD, isn't 2/4 of your troops choices in plastic at all good enough? Bunch of entitled jerks.
I can imagine the pain of having to look at finecast models and wondering whether or not to buy them. Luckily I'm a loyal Imperial and won't ever have this problem.
Warhams-77 wrote: Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the entire range has still very good sculpts
Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?
Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.
Yeah, if you want "current, plastic sculpts of power armored models holding bolters" you've got
But those whiny xenos players are allllllllllways asking for MORE plastic sculpts, I mean, GOD, isn't 2/4 of your troops choices in plastic at all good enough? Bunch of entitled jerks.
I can imagine the pain of having to look at finecast models and wondering whether or not to buy them. Luckily I'm a loyal Imperial and won't ever have this problem.
Wondering whether or not...no, the answer is don't buy them. Ever. Metal miniatures last for decades, every finecast miniature I was ever stupid enough to purchase (i got a couple of the new necrons when the line re-launched) has crumblemelted on the shelf.
Finecast as a material has approximately the same properties as those little clay snowman toys you can get from toy stores, where you sculpt a thing and come back the next day to find it melted into a puddle. it's worse than the sketchiest jankiest resin you can get from a guy with a russian email address selling suspiciously cheap Worldforge miniatures.
I don't care if I have to pay twice as much for the real metal mini on ebay, it's worth it to me because it'll be a miniature that I still have in two years.
Warhams-77 wrote: Plastic models for Ynnarii are likely. Craftworld Eldar have been finished a while ago. Jes said in an interview a year or two ago that they want to focus on new models for the Aeldari and won't redo those already available (mentioning Aspect warriors specificially) for the x-th time. If someone can provide newer info about redoing the Craftworlders I'm interested in hearing them.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I think the entire range has still very good sculpts
Interesting... how many times have they redone the SM plastics, again? As to the Aspects, I think they've had... what, two metal/finecast incarnations each, except for the Dire Avengers?
Marines always get everything - plus then snowflake chapter versions of them.
Yeah, if you want "current, plastic sculpts of power armored models holding bolters" you've got
But those whiny xenos players are allllllllllways asking for MORE plastic sculpts, I mean, GOD, isn't 2/4 of your troops choices in plastic at all good enough? Bunch of entitled jerks.
I can imagine the pain of having to look at finecast models and wondering whether or not to buy them. Luckily I'm a loyal Imperial and won't ever have this problem.
Wondering whether or not...no, the answer is don't buy them. Ever. Metal miniatures last for decades, every finecast miniature I was ever stupid enough to purchase (i got a couple of the new necrons when the line re-launched) has crumblemelted on the shelf.
Finecast as a material has approximately the same properties as those little clay snowman toys you can get from toy stores, where you sculpt a thing and come back the next day to find it melted into a puddle. it's worse than the sketchiest jankiest resin you can get from a guy with a russian email address selling suspiciously cheap Worldforge miniatures.
I don't care if I have to pay twice as much for the real metal mini on ebay, it's worth it to me because it'll be a miniature that I still have in two years.
This seems like a wise choice. I've bought dozens of fine miniatures cast in resin from the likes of Studio McVey, Mierce, Forgeworld etc. I've never once been tempted to buy into finecast. In fact I bought several duplicate classic white metal miniatures like this guy https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99800101006_TerminatorChaplainNEW01.jpg and plenty more when I saw the road GW were headed down during the (continuing) finecast debacle.
Mymearan wrote: Warp Spiders and Shining Spears have 1 sculpt (2nd ed and 3rd ed respectively). Fire Dragons, Banshees, Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions have 3 (2nd, 3rd and... 4th or 5th for the latest ones?). Dire Avengers I think only have 2, with the second set being plastic. Swooping Hawks have 2 (2nd and 3rd ed). The 3rd ed resculpts were not done by Jes Goodwin, and suffice to say better stick to either the 2nd ed or the latest ones...
Dire Avengers had 3. They had a metal/plastic hybrid kit in 3rd that used 8 plastic Guardians and added metal Dire Avenger heads and sashes as well as a metal arm with shuriken pistol and one with power sword.
The day they release each Aspect unit in plastic is the day I start an Eldar army! Howling Banshees or Warp Spiders designed up with today's standards would make some very sharp looking units
NurglesR0T wrote: The day they release each Aspect unit in plastic is the day I start an Eldar army! Howling Banshees or Warp Spiders designed up with today's standards would make some very sharp looking units
I loved how those different aspects filled a different CC niche. Banshees were devastaing on the charge, whereas SS could take a charge and stick around to deal some counter damage if they didn't manahe to get the charge in themselves. Plus mandibles
With the pitiful damage that SS do now, I really wish that their mandibles would proc on a 5+ instead of a 6. I love the models so damn much, but their price (both $$ and in game) has basically kept me from running them ever, except in the rare case where I go against my friends GSC, they can do ok there.
That's gotta be old, unrelated art. That's a chaos dreadnought and Angron doesn't look like a generic Daemon Prince, and certainly doesn't use a sword.
Edit: I read the blurb of fluff. The Sam-Hainn succeed in stopping that Chaos uprising, and this boxset takes place after that has already happened.
zend wrote: That's gotta be old, unrelated art. That's a chaos dreadnought and Angron doesn't look like a generic Daemon Prince, and certainly doesn't use a sword.
Edit: I read the blurb of fluff. The Sam-Hainn succeed in that Chaos uprising, and this boxset takes place after that has already happened.
zend wrote: That's gotta be old, unrelated art. That's a chaos dreadnought and Angron doesn't look like a generic Daemon Prince, and certainly doesn't use a sword.
Edit: I read the blurb of fluff. The Sam-Hainn succeed in that Chaos uprising, and this boxset takes place after that has already happened.
I thought he used a black sword.
Apparently he did, but it was broken by Grey Knights during the first War for Armageddon. I assume hes back to using an axe, as most art depicts him with one and GW has most likely modelled him with one. Either way, hes not going to look like the generic $40 DP kit.
Call it nit picking but even with a small side event such as this box set, why the feth does everything have to involve the zogging Ultramarines. You have six 1st founding chapters represented in the Space Marine Codex along with their countless numbers of successor chapters to use in your setting and yet Ultras are involved in basically every narrative event.
Call it nit picking but even with a small side event such as this box set, why the feth does everything have to involve the zogging Ultramarines. You have six 1st founding chapters represented in the Space Marine Codex along with their countless numbers of successor chapters to use in your setting and yet Ultras are involved in basically every narrative event.
Because they are the fashionably late Cavalry? It’s been their schtick since the Horus Heresy - miss the main fighting and show up afterwards to kick in the head of the side that’s already blown its wad on the enemy. If I didn’t know better, I’d think Roboute does it on purpose...
BrianDavion wrote: I imagine it's in part because Ultramarines are what the studio vanilla marines primaris army is
Yeah. I probably would have bought Tooth and Claw but I can't really be bothered scraping the SW iconography off the marines, so this looks a bit more attractive to me (and if I'm stuck with the opposing faction I'd prefer Eldar over stealers, but that's just a bonus).
BrianDavion wrote: I imagine it's in part because Ultramarines are what the studio vanilla marines primaris army is
Yeah. I probably would have bought Tooth and Claw but I can't really be bothered scraping the SW iconography off the marines, so this looks a bit more attractive to me (and if I'm stuck with the opposing faction I'd prefer Eldar over stealers, but that's just a bonus).
Just a heads-up, but the marines in Tooth and Claw are multi-part, and all the Wolves iconography is part of the included upgrade sprue. With the exception of the specifically Space Wolf Haldor Icepelt, all the other models can be built as not-Wolves without any conversion straigth out the box.
It could have been any other chapter of space marines. Why did they have to go with Ultramarines? Now that the Ultramarines are there, there's zero conflict. GW would never have the blue boys lose.
drbored wrote: It could have been any other chapter of space marines. Why did they have to go with Ultramarines? Now that the Ultramarines are there, there's zero conflict. GW would never have the blue boys lose.
They probably "had to go with Ultramarines" because the Ultramarines are currently out there trying to reinforce the various lynchpin worlds. Guilliman's going to send his boys, end of story.
drbored wrote: It could have been any other chapter of space marines. Why did they have to go with Ultramarines? Now that the Ultramarines are there, there's zero conflict. GW would never have the blue boys lose.
*Eyeroll* yeah because the presence of Ultramarines at Cadia stopped Cadia from falling. Ultramarines suffer plenty of defeats (Honor and Iron for example had the third company suffer a devestating loss)
BrianDavion wrote: I imagine it's in part because Ultramarines are what the studio vanilla marines primaris army is
Yeah. I probably would have bought Tooth and Claw but I can't really be bothered scraping the SW iconography off the marines, so this looks a bit more attractive to me (and if I'm stuck with the opposing faction I'd prefer Eldar over stealers, but that's just a bonus).
Just a heads-up, but the marines in Tooth and Claw are multi-part, and all the Wolves iconography is part of the included upgrade sprue. With the exception of the specifically Space Wolf Haldor Icepelt, all the other models can be built as not-Wolves without any conversion straigth out the box.
Really? I checked the sprue pics and I saw glyphs and neck charms on the models, but I guess I didn't pay close attention (I did notice the shoulder pads are additional, but I thought some of the chest pieces and legs are unique). I'll go check again. Do you have the set?
/edit - hmm. I believe you're right. This may change things. I prefer the WtD leader and eldar, but I also prefer the the T&C dread and flamer infantry. Decisions to be made.
Yeah, Tooth and Claw is just normal Primaris with upgrade sprues. The character is SW, but easy to trade. Fortunately, the wolves are one of the many chapters I have, so I am the target audience for most of their Imperium releases.
Except for Blood Angels.
And I’m splitting my Wake boxes with a buddy...he needs more Wave Serpents and Guardians. But he wants new Aspect Warriors sculpts too.
Call it nit picking but even with a small side event such as this box set, why the feth does everything have to involve the zogging Ultramarines. You have six 1st founding chapters represented in the Space Marine Codex along with their countless numbers of successor chapters to use in your setting and yet Ultras are involved in basically every narrative event.
How many chapters they have PAINTED UP in the studio army? That's the question. Guess their painters are too busy painting other stuff to do other chapters in sufficient quantities.
Call it nit picking but even with a small side event such as this box set, why the feth does everything have to involve the zogging Ultramarines. You have six 1st founding chapters represented in the Space Marine Codex along with their countless numbers of successor chapters to use in your setting and yet Ultras are involved in basically every narrative event.
How many chapters they have PAINTED UP in the studio army? That's the question. Guess their painters are too busy painting other stuff to do other chapters in sufficient quantities.
I am under the impression that other forces tend to be personal armies of one of the staff, which are sometimes used if they are of sufficient quality.
Call it nit picking but even with a small side event such as this box set, why the feth does everything have to involve the zogging Ultramarines. You have six 1st founding chapters represented in the Space Marine Codex along with their countless numbers of successor chapters to use in your setting and yet Ultras are involved in basically every narrative event.
How many chapters they have PAINTED UP in the studio army? That's the question. Guess their painters are too busy painting other stuff to do other chapters in sufficient quantities.
I am under the impression that other forces tend to be personal armies of one of the staff, which are sometimes used if they are of sufficient quality.
looking carefully in the vanilla marine codex BTW, the codex has a raven guard army with reavers inceptors, and Intercessors, so had they wanted to they could have gone with raven guard.
drbored wrote: It could have been any other chapter of space marines. Why did they have to go with Ultramarines? Now that the Ultramarines are there, there's zero conflict. GW would never have the blue boys lose.
*Eyeroll* yeah because the presence of Ultramarines at Cadia stopped Cadia from falling. Ultramarines suffer plenty of defeats (Honor and Iron for example had the third company suffer a devestating loss)
the ultramarines hate is getting old people
Maybe when their eye-roll inducing ubiquity in the setting tails off, so will the antipathy.
drbored wrote: It could have been any other chapter of space marines. Why did they have to go with Ultramarines? Now that the Ultramarines are there, there's zero conflict. GW would never have the blue boys lose.
*Eyeroll* yeah because the presence of Ultramarines at Cadia stopped Cadia from falling. Ultramarines suffer plenty of defeats (Honor and Iron for example had the third company suffer a devestating loss)
the ultramarines hate is getting old people
Maybe when their eye-roll inducing ubiquity in the setting tails off, so will the antipathy.
sure, proably because most of the hate for the Ultramarines are people doing it to be cool and contrary, basicly hipster 40kism.
drbored wrote: It could have been any other chapter of space marines. Why did they have to go with Ultramarines? Now that the Ultramarines are there, there's zero conflict. GW would never have the blue boys lose.
*Eyeroll* yeah because the presence of Ultramarines at Cadia stopped Cadia from falling. Ultramarines suffer plenty of defeats (Honor and Iron for example had the third company suffer a devestating loss)
the ultramarines hate is getting old people
Maybe when their eye-roll inducing ubiquity in the setting tails off, so will the antipathy.
sure, proably because most of the hate for the Ultramarines are people doing it to be cool and contrary, basicly hipster 40kism.
This. I remember my cousin bashing them all the way back in 2nd edition, purely because they were the "poster boys". Used to call them smurfs and everything.
drbored wrote: It could have been any other chapter of space marines. Why did they have to go with Ultramarines? Now that the Ultramarines are there, there's zero conflict. GW would never have the blue boys lose.
*Eyeroll* yeah because the presence of Ultramarines at Cadia stopped Cadia from falling. Ultramarines suffer plenty of defeats (Honor and Iron for example had the third company suffer a devestating loss)
the ultramarines hate is getting old people
Maybe when their eye-roll inducing ubiquity in the setting tails off, so will the antipathy.
sure, proably because most of the hate for the Ultramarines are people doing it to be cool and contrary, basicly hipster 40kism.
This. I remember my cousin bashing them all the way back in 2nd edition, purely because they were the "poster boys". Used to call them smurfs and everything.
Ironically, they were the least of the 4 to see play. Who want's vanilla instead of Angels of Blood / Darkness, or Wolves? They were the only of those lot that I never painted an army for (though I still like them).
Nice fluff summary of the Eldar gods on WHC. It could be nothing as the Eldar are not exactly spoilt for choice these days when it comes to live deity's, but GW do keep mentioning Isha in there background
Nice fluff summary of the Eldar gods on WHC. It could be nothing as the Eldar are not exactly spoilt for choice these days when it comes to live deity's, but GW do keep mentioning Isha in there background
They seem to be slowly building up a pantheon of major heroes for each faction, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see a couple more Aeldari Avatars in the next few years (and hopefully a plastic Avatar of Khaine). I think we will also see more Primarchs, both Imperial and Daemon, as well as some enormous Orks and 'Nids (we already have the Swarmlord as an equivalent). It really just leaves Tau and Necrons out of the party.
Nice fluff summary of the Eldar gods on WHC. It could be nothing as the Eldar are not exactly spoilt for choice these days when it comes to live deity's, but GW do keep mentioning Isha in there background
Yeah very nice fluff basically the old Eldar fluff, along with art work from RT era to 4 ed era. I love the old artwork and I am glad they went with it....god I miss the old hand drawn artwork not the CAD crap now a days.... and get offa my lawn you little bastards!
Nice fluff summary of the Eldar gods on WHC. It could be nothing as the Eldar are not exactly spoilt for choice these days when it comes to live deity's, but GW do keep mentioning Isha in there background
They seem to be slowly building up a pantheon of major heroes for each faction, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see a couple more Aeldari Avatars in the next few years (and hopefully a plastic Avatar of Khaine). I think we will also see more Primarchs, both Imperial and Daemon, as well as some enormous Orks and 'Nids (we already have the Swarmlord as an equivalent). It really just leaves Tau and Necrons out of the party.
Well the Necrons already have their shards of Star Gods. Now make me an avatar of Gork (or Mork).
Nice fluff summary of the Eldar gods on WHC. It could be nothing as the Eldar are not exactly spoilt for choice these days when it comes to live deity's, but GW do keep mentioning Isha in there background
They seem to be slowly building up a pantheon of major heroes for each faction, so I wouldn't be surprised if we see a couple more Aeldari Avatars in the next few years (and hopefully a plastic Avatar of Khaine). I think we will also see more Primarchs, both Imperial and Daemon, as well as some enormous Orks and 'Nids (we already have the Swarmlord as an equivalent). It really just leaves Tau and Necrons out of the party.
Well the Necrons already have their shards of Star Gods. Now make me an avatar of Gork (or Mork).
Totally forgot about those That just leaves Tau needing a few battlesuit heroes, and we are set
The Kill team background mentions the Iron Hands being present on Vigilus. They would 
) and I also have a growing collection of Primaris. However, I couldn’t care less about the Guardians.
