Why do necrons never get released and never get new models. I thought a recent ish rumour engine was necron but no necrons have been released. Why would we ever need a new release of space marines ever for the rest of our lives. And yet necrons the best army in 40k get nothing for years.its a real disgrace.
Icegoat wrote: Why do necrons never get released and never get new models. I thought a recent ish rumour engine was necron but no necrons have been released. Why would we ever need a new release of space marines ever for the rest of our lives. And yet necrons the best army in 40k get nothing for years.its a real disgrace.
They do, they've had 1 more model in 8th than Harlequins, Nids, Thousand Sons & Grey knights off the top of my head to be pedantic.
In short the question is what would you expect them to release? They need to slot in some crons somewhere but they have a pretty complete range bar 1-2 resculpts and I doubt you want to pay more for less models to replace existing units.
Necrons have from a modeling perspective a fairly complete and modern range. Honestly with my undead space robots I wdon't want to many mroe kits because then GW will do what they do and nerf older stuff to push the new stuff. As fro resculpts i wouldn't mind more cthan options. i like the models but given the tesserect vault I would love to see them evolve to more like that 9the radiating energy)
I more hope what they get in the psychic awakening is some buffs to make them more able to compete. we know they will probably not see points adjustments but some changes to options and new stratagems or relics would be good.
Necrons don't need new kits. What they need is an overhaul of their Codex. The amount of points cuts that Necrons have received is enormous, and yet they still perform terribly. What else could they do.
Only the Warriors and Monolith were carried over. Everything else was redone, reinvented or added entirely new. Oh. And the Destroyers
New stuff was, off the top of my head.....erm.....Tomb Blades, Triach Praetorians, Triarch Stalkers, Crypteks, Ghost Ark, Doomsday Ark, Doom Scythe, Night Scythe. Annihilation Barge, Command Barge, Tesseract Vault, Obelisk and the special Characters (all but the characters in plastic).
Reinvented? Wraiths, Tomb Spyders and Lychguard.
Redone? Immortals (kit also makes the Snipers).
That was a massive undertaking. 13 entirely new units. And other than characters, only one unit not in plastic.
That’s within the last 10 years. So, they got a lot of attention at that point, so it’s arguable GW don’t need to do much for them at the moment.
Necrons are honestly in a good spot. The only real finecast they've got is leaders and flayed ones and some of the destroyer stuff. Basically they are pretty up to date. And they even got a freaking titan from Forgeworld recently too.
There area good few armies worse off - Take Eldar who have all their signature aspect warriors in resin (except for Howling Banshees) and are running around with plastic guardians which I believe I'm right in saying are older than the entire Necron model range- and really show their age compared to more modern sculpts.
By all means more necrons is good, but right now they are in a strong spot model wise with a pretty diverse and wide ranging model line that's almost all up to date.
Plastic Aspect Warriors came out not long after 3rd Ed, less a minor repacking to include the grav platform.
So yeah, they’re what, 22 years old now? Looking good for it if you ask me, but defo a refresh would be welcome.
Even Ork Boyz got a more significant refresh since then. Used to be no ‘Eavy Weapons, Nobz sold separately, and most ‘fun’ of all? The Shootas were, pointlessly separate pieces.
They are $18 USD for 1, you need 2 to make 1 unit, if you play them you need at least 12, thats $216 for 140pts. It's 18 DOLLAR for a set of tiny birds! Literally 5 other games sell plastic, metal, or resin birds for a couple dollars a set. Zombicide are the same size and its $20 for 15 of them.
Not counting the other Beasts, Grotesques. So you want 1 unit of 10 Grots? well thats $250 and they are all 1 pose as Finecast.
Then, there is the fact that DE has only had stuff taken away, we have not had a new unit entire in 10yrs.
Sorry to take away from your anger, i'm mad too lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Want to know the worst part.... GW MAKES PLASTIC BIRDS
Int he beast of chaos Endless spell box, there are 3 plastic bird sets for $35... its cheaper to buy this set, throw away the other 2 spells than it is to buy 3 of the Finecast birds, you save $20 that way.
I feel "sit down young one, Necrons got a re-release 2012 (?) so you shouldn't expect anything" is a bit weird in the modern version of the game (and the general need to be more responsible dating from about 2012 due to growing competition).
On the other hand there is an argument that they do have a reasonably complete range when you look at most unit archetypes, so really you would be adding duplication for duplications sake.
But then this doesn't tend to be an issue with other ranges, so I'm not really sure its that compelling.
I mean do people "need" say a mini-floating monolith pointed and gunned somewhere between an annihilation barge and doomsday ark? Not really, but if the model was cool, why not?
They are $18 USD for 1, you need 2 to make 1 unit, if you play them you need at least 12, thats $216 for 140pts. It's 18 DOLLAR for a set of tiny birds! Literally 5 other games sell plastic, metal, or resin birds for a couple dollars a set. Zombicide are the same size and its $20 for 15 of them.
Not counting the other Beasts, Grotesques. So you want 1 unit of 10 Grots? well thats $250 and they are all 1 pose as Finecast.
Then, there is the fact that DE has only had stuff taken away, we have not had a new unit entire in 10yrs.
Sorry to take away from your anger, i'm mad too lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Want to know the worst part.... GW MAKES PLASTIC BIRDS
Int he beast of chaos Endless spell box, there are 3 plastic bird sets for $35... its cheaper to buy this set, throw away the other 2 spells than it is to buy 3 of the Finecast birds, you save $20 that way.
Well that's categorically wrong, the voidraven was released in 2014, as were plastic wracks, succubus, haemonculus and archon. Not like drazhar or incubi were released in 2019 either. There was also a large release wave in 2011.
None of those are new units except the voidraven which I'm not sure about. DE have definitely lost far more than they gained in terms of models.
Personally I feel the less Necrons get attention from GW beyond rules the better. New models are just going to make crons as bloated as Marines are with their model range so complete and more lore in the world of newcrons is only going to be bad.
They are $18 USD for 1, you need 2 to make 1 unit, if you play them you need at least 12, thats $216 for 140pts. It's 18 DOLLAR for a set of tiny birds! Literally 5 other games sell plastic, metal, or resin birds for a couple dollars a set. Zombicide are the same size and its $20 for 15 of them.
Not counting the other Beasts, Grotesques. So you want 1 unit of 10 Grots? well thats $250 and they are all 1 pose as Finecast.
Then, there is the fact that DE has only had stuff taken away, we have not had a new unit entire in 10yrs.
Sorry to take away from your anger, i'm mad too lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Want to know the worst part.... GW MAKES PLASTIC BIRDS
Int he beast of chaos Endless spell box, there are 3 plastic bird sets for $35... its cheaper to buy this set, throw away the other 2 spells than it is to buy 3 of the Finecast birds, you save $20 that way.
Well that's categorically wrong, the voidraven was released in 2014, as were plastic wracks, succubus, haemonculus and archon. Not like drazhar or incubi were released in 2019 either. There was also a large release wave in 2011.
NEW UNIT ENTIRE not new kit for current rules, the new unit was release in 2010 DE 5th edit codex.
And we only got plastic b.c the fine cast was so bad it was financially better to go plastic, we did a pole on a DE forum, 2 out of 3 units was so bad GW sent new free ones, i bought 5 ficecast units and got 9 free ones, it was that bad. And now all 80 something models are broken, literally everyone is broke.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Plastic Aspect Warriors came out not long after 3rd Ed, less a minor repacking to include the grav platform.
So yeah, they’re what, 22 years old now? Looking good for it if you ask me, but defo a refresh would be welcome.
Even Ork Boyz got a more significant refresh since then. Used to be no ‘Eavy Weapons, Nobz sold separately, and most ‘fun’ of all? The Shootas were, pointlessly separate pieces.
You're thinking Guardians. Aspects don't have Grav Platforms (unless you count jetbikes or a spaceplane).
I'd disagree about the Guardian kit looking good. Crack one open, then crack open a Tac Marine/Guardsman/FireWarrior/etc kit. It's incredibly barebones. Incredibly meh. You can feel it's age if you assemble one.
The Dire Avenger kit, though, is quite good (despite only one model having actual options). And that was updated for the 6E Codex release! .... By halving the sprues in the box.
They are $18 USD for 1, you need 2 to make 1 unit, if you play them you need at least 12, thats $216 for 140pts. It's 18 DOLLAR for a set of tiny birds! Literally 5 other games sell plastic, metal, or resin birds for a couple dollars a set. Zombicide are the same size and its $20 for 15 of them.
Not counting the other Beasts, Grotesques. So you want 1 unit of 10 Grots? well thats $250 and they are all 1 pose as Finecast.
Then, there is the fact that DE has only had stuff taken away, we have not had a new unit entire in 10yrs.
Sorry to take away from your anger, i'm mad too lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Want to know the worst part.... GW MAKES PLASTIC BIRDS
Int he beast of chaos Endless spell box, there are 3 plastic bird sets for $35... its cheaper to buy this set, throw away the other 2 spells than it is to buy 3 of the Finecast birds, you save $20 that way.
Well that's categorically wrong, the voidraven was released in 2014, as were plastic wracks, succubus, haemonculus and archon. Not like drazhar or incubi were released in 2019 either. There was also a large release wave in 2011.
NEW UNIT ENTIRE not new kit for current rules, the new unit was release in 2010 DE 5th edit codex.
And we only got plastic b.c the fine cast was so bad it was financially better to go plastic, we did a pole on a DE forum, 2 out of 3 units was so bad GW sent new free ones, i bought 5 ficecast units and got 9 free ones, it was that bad. And now all 80 something models are broken, literally everyone is broke.
PS: Necrons got a new character not to long ago.
Ok, what brand new units do you think the range needs that is missing from their line up? Maybe a lord of war but that's about it, all the other unit stereotypes are covered.
Ok, what brand new units do you think the range needs that is missing from their line up? Maybe a lord of war but that's about it, all the other unit stereotypes are covered.
Named characters, and transport options for Archons, Succubi, and Haemonculi.
Ok, what brand new units do you think the range needs that is missing from their line up? Maybe a lord of war but that's about it, all the other unit stereotypes are covered.
Named characters, and transport options for Archons, Succubi, and Haemonculi.
I get maybe including special characters for completion against the fluff but it's not something they need, it's a nice to have at best. Raiders and venoms exist as transports though?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sorry I appreciate I'm being very devils advocate but there are a lot of payers who complain their factions don't get anything but then couldn't actually say what it is they wanted, nor be able to justify it. They're just used to seeing marines get stuff and want some new shinies without thinking why.
Unpopular opinion: marines needed the new models because the primaris line wasn't fleshed out enough to replace the squatty marines (and still isn't yet), likewise some factions need a release as their factions lack diversity or options. Neither dark eldar nor necrons fall under this umbrella, they have some older finecast units to replace but that's about it.
Argive wrote: As usual the xenos crowd tearing at eachother over scraps of attention and plastic from sm table..
basically the most accurate statement on the subject. I mostly have xenos armies and like them more for the flavors they offer. my space marines rarely if ever see the tabel and are mostly purchased used at deep dicounts jsut to have the models and paint them for fun.
Overall I feel like GW shoudl have a disclaimer on all xenos armies that you will get less new release models, less ruels updates, and while you may have short periods of being on top of a meta most of the time will eb spent with weaker rules and be at a strength disadvantage to any imperial or chaos faction.
At least thier website has it right. you click on the 40k section and first is Imperium, second chaos and last xenos which is pretty accurate to thier priorities.
I don't really so much care about the fewer models part I just wish they would address power imbalances more. My Orks, Tau, Harliquins, and Necrons just feel like they are at a significant disadvantage opposite codex marines, knights, and guard.
They are $18 USD for 1, you need 2 to make 1 unit, if you play them you need at least 12, thats $216 for 140pts. It's 18 DOLLAR for a set of tiny birds! Literally 5 other games sell plastic, metal, or resin birds for a couple dollars a set. Zombicide are the same size and its $20 for 15 of them.
Not counting the other Beasts, Grotesques. So you want 1 unit of 10 Grots? well thats $250 and they are all 1 pose as Finecast.
Then, there is the fact that DE has only had stuff taken away, we have not had a new unit entire in 10yrs.
Sorry to take away from your anger, i'm mad too lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Want to know the worst part.... GW MAKES PLASTIC BIRDS
Int he beast of chaos Endless spell box, there are 3 plastic bird sets for $35... its cheaper to buy this set, throw away the other 2 spells than it is to buy 3 of the Finecast birds, you save $20 that way.
Well that's categorically wrong, the voidraven was released in 2014, as were plastic wracks, succubus, haemonculus and archon. Not like drazhar or incubi were released in 2019 either. There was also a large release wave in 2011.
NEW UNIT ENTIRE not new kit for current rules, the new unit was release in 2010 DE 5th edit codex.
And we only got plastic b.c the fine cast was so bad it was financially better to go plastic, we did a pole on a DE forum, 2 out of 3 units was so bad GW sent new free ones, i bought 5 ficecast units and got 9 free ones, it was that bad. And now all 80 something models are broken, literally everyone is broke.
PS: Necrons got a new character not to long ago.
Ok, what brand new units do you think the range needs that is missing from their line up? Maybe a lord of war but that's about it, all the other unit stereotypes are covered.
Easy, give us back Mounted Heroes, we had them, they took them away. B.c of how our transports work and auras, 99% the time your hero is walking, even tho we are the "fast" army (not really anymore...) out Haemonculusand Archons are walking most the time. Its not fun, its not fluffy, we had mounted heroes before, just give them back.
Also a lot of our named characters are taken away, At least give us Vect and The Baron back... why is it that DE is the ONLY ARMY without its main named character? (well maybe GSC? But idk if they even have one), everyone loved the Baron and wants Vect. .
They are $18 USD for 1, you need 2 to make 1 unit, if you play them you need at least 12, thats $216 for 140pts. It's 18 DOLLAR for a set of tiny birds! Literally 5 other games sell plastic, metal, or resin birds for a couple dollars a set. Zombicide are the same size and its $20 for 15 of them.
Not counting the other Beasts, Grotesques. So you want 1 unit of 10 Grots? well thats $250 and they are all 1 pose as Finecast.
Then, there is the fact that DE has only had stuff taken away, we have not had a new unit entire in 10yrs.
Sorry to take away from your anger, i'm mad too lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Want to know the worst part.... GW MAKES PLASTIC BIRDS
Int he beast of chaos Endless spell box, there are 3 plastic bird sets for $35... its cheaper to buy this set, throw away the other 2 spells than it is to buy 3 of the Finecast birds, you save $20 that way.
Well that's categorically wrong, the voidraven was released in 2014, as were plastic wracks, succubus, haemonculus and archon. Not like drazhar or incubi were released in 2019 either. There was also a large release wave in 2011.
NEW UNIT ENTIRE not new kit for current rules, the new unit was release in 2010 DE 5th edit codex.
And we only got plastic b.c the fine cast was so bad it was financially better to go plastic, we did a pole on a DE forum, 2 out of 3 units was so bad GW sent new free ones, i bought 5 ficecast units and got 9 free ones, it was that bad. And now all 80 something models are broken, literally everyone is broke.
PS: Necrons got a new character not to long ago.
Ok, what brand new units do you think the range needs that is missing from their line up? Maybe a lord of war but that's about it, all the other unit stereotypes are covered.
Easy, give us back Mounted Heroes, we had them, they took them away. B.c of how our transports work and auras, 99% the time your hero is walking, even tho we are the "fast" army (not really anymore...) out Haemonculusand Archons are walking most the time. Its not fun, its not fluffy, we had mounted heroes before, just give them back.
Also a lot of our named characters are taken away, At least give us Vect and The Baron back... why is it that DE is the ONLY ARMY without its main named character? (well maybe GSC? But idk if they even have one), everyone loved the Baron and wants Vect.
.
Increase venom capacity to 6, maybe make an archon/succubus on bike kit and sorted. Was it the fluff of the Baron? Would you be happy to only ever play the relevant subfaction to play him, because he would be locked to one, much as Vect would.
Venoms are meant to be small, i would like them to be 6, but i and most DE players would rather just get Bikes/Wings/Skyboards back as options for the heroes.
The Baron was just stupidly fun to play, he is an Archon of Skyboard with lots of tricks, he is suppose to be a tactical genius. He used to give +1 to picking sides, gave units stealth and hit and run, plus gave hellions some movement bonuses that are no longer in the game.
Also the problem with DE is the whole subfactions crap, Baron is an Archon that works with hellions.... He is actually a high ranking Archon. DE needs to remove this crap and let us just mix and match again. Let us work together for once as an army.
Could you imagine if marines had to take a detachment if they wanted TFC's and then another detachment to take Scouts, and a 3rd to take Primaris? No one would allow that and riot GW, but its ok when its DE b.c no one cares about the red headed step child.
I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
It's not the responsibility of the consumers to develop product on GW's behalf. I didn't see any SM players suggesting Primaris and since their release people have effectively asked for Primaris versions of existing things, rather than something wholly new. Furthermore this topic isn't an exercise in suggesting new units for Necrons. The OP is frustrated at the lack of releases for his faction while suffering through a glut of marines.
More on topic Necrons may well be getting their Silent King that I think will be their "Primarch" tier character. That should be pretty exciting if it's true.
An Actual Englishman wrote: It's not the responsibility of the consumers to develop product on GW's behalf. I didn't see any SM players suggesting Primaris and since their release people have effectively asked for Primaris versions of existing things, rather than something wholly new. Furthermore this topic isn't an exercise in suggesting new units for Necrons. The OP is frustrated at the lack of releases for his faction while suffering through a glut of marines.
More on topic Necrons may well be getting their Silent King that I think will be their "Primarch" tier character. That should be pretty exciting if it's true.
Agreed and exciting to see him if it is the case, my issue with many of the posts in here is "I don't know what I want, why I want it or what for. But marines got something and people complain so I should get something too!". If GW released necron turd burglars at £30 for a box of 5 and their rules were just warriors that had a -1 to hit for 20 points a head, would that be enough?
Actually you're a good example AAE, as much I don't think we should be spamming out supplements for everyone, your want for speed freaks units is a valid request. You can example a unit that exists in the fluff, why it would work on the tabletop and how it gives a new kit opportunity. Rather than just wanting more orks.
An Actual Englishman wrote: It's not the responsibility of the consumers to develop product on GW's behalf. I didn't see any SM players suggesting Primaris and since their release people have effectively asked for Primaris versions of existing things, rather than something wholly new. Furthermore this topic isn't an exercise in suggesting new units for Necrons. The OP is frustrated at the lack of releases for his faction while suffering through a glut of marines.
More on topic Necrons may well be getting their Silent King that I think will be their "Primarch" tier character. That should be pretty exciting if it's true.
Eh, I'm not thrilled by the prospect of seeing yet more primarch level special snowflakes in the game, especially one that's emblematic of necrons going from T-800 murderbots to Egyptian Walt Kowalski in space. I'd like it more if Necron got some actual heavy vehicles (a proper tank would be nice) and a canoptek hq and troops unit, so you can field proper robot armies. Oh, and rules for the Severance would be nice too. Throw in pariahs and a generic C'tan model that doesn't require buying a 100+ euro kit too and that would pretty much be everything I want to see.
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
What 20 new units do necrons need?
I don't think we need 20 new units, but here are a few ideas...
1. Give us Canoptek HQ and Troops choices so that we can build a "Tomb World that is in maintenance mode" list. There are plenty of good Canoptek choices, but we're missing the critical ones. I'd love to be able to put together a Canoptek Patrol Detachment to represent Tomb World defenses.
2. Give us some more Triarch Praetorian options. Right now we have the basic dudes and the due riding a Stalker. We could definitely use a Triarch Praetorian HQ to add buffs and maybe something like a Triarch Heavy Weapons Team. Again, I'd love to be able to put together a proper Triarch Patrol Detachment.
3. Give us a proper transport. I'd love to be able to have a unit of Immortals AND their buff HQs disembark together.
4. Give us a proper battle tank equivalent with consistent damage output. The Annihilation Barge feels more like a fancy Land Speeder. I want a Predator equivalent. We definitely have some high damage output options, but D6 hits with D6 damage each can have crazy damage output or can be worse than a single Marine with a Boltgun.
5. Bring back Pariahs.
6. Add a generic "Flayed One" HQ or Elite that supports the Flayed Ones.
7. Either recut the Warriors kit to add more options, or add new kits featuring Warriors doing different things. They can ride bikes and pilot Annihilation Barges, so why can't they operate heavy weapons or use melee weapons?
There are a TON of new options you could add. Part of the Necron issue is that new units would be really nice. Part of the issue is that some of the units we have seem unusable because the rules aren't great.
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
What 20 new units do necrons need?
I don't think we need 20 new units, but here are a few ideas...
1. Give us Canoptek HQ and Troops choices so that we can build a "Tomb World that is in maintenance mode" list. There are plenty of good Canoptek choices, but we're missing the critical ones. I'd love to be able to put together a Canoptek Patrol Detachment to represent Tomb World defenses.
2. Give us some more Triarch Praetorian options. Right now we have the basic dudes and the due riding a Stalker. We could definitely use a Triarch Praetorian HQ to add buffs and maybe something like a Triarch Heavy Weapons Team. Again, I'd love to be able to put together a proper Triarch Patrol Detachment.
3. Give us a proper transport. I'd love to be able to have a unit of Immortals AND their buff HQs disembark together.
4. Give us a proper battle tank equivalent with consistent damage output. The Annihilation Barge feels more like a fancy Land Speeder. I want a Predator equivalent. We definitely have some high damage output options, but D6 hits with D6 damage each can have crazy damage output or can be worse than a single Marine with a Boltgun.
5. Bring back Pariahs.
6. Add a generic "Flayed One" HQ or Elite that supports the Flayed Ones.
7. Either recut the Warriors kit to add more options, or add new kits featuring Warriors doing different things. They can ride bikes and pilot Annihilation Barges, so why can't they operate heavy weapons or use melee weapons?
There are a TON of new options you could add. Part of the Necron issue is that new units would be really nice. Part of the issue is that some of the units we have seem unusable because the rules aren't great.
I appreciate the time you put into this and there's some merit in some of those, I don't think they'll get that much. It also reads a lot like you want marine options in a lot of cases rather than pushing the faction in a unique direction. Nevertheless that's subjective and I thank you for constructive input.
Icegoat wrote: Why do necrons never get released and never get new models. I thought a recent ish rumour engine was necron but no necrons have been released. Why would we ever need a new release of space marines ever for the rest of our lives. And yet necrons the best army in 40k get nothing for years.its a real disgrace.
Necrons were effectively almost entirely rebooted, in terms of model range, about 8 years ago. This makes them, as a whole, one of the newest factions in terms of average age of the line.
Now, they haven't gotten too much new since then, but before the end of 2011 the only vehicle they had the the Monolith and otherwise all they had were Pariahs (gone now), Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers, Wraiths, Tomb Spiders, Scarabs, Lords/Destroyer Lords, the Deceiver and the Nightbringer. Every other Necron unit was created since then, and even many of these older units got model updates/refreshes.
They have one of the most complete and comprehensive lines, without too many orphaned units and few major gaps in unit type, and in fact already have issues of units essentially displacing each other (destroyers were originally Jetbikes when introduced in 2E, they got updated to their current model in 3E, then GW decided to make Destroyers Jet Infantry like Tau Suits for whatever reason so they could make a new Jetbike unit, Tomb Blades). Not that new Necron units couldn't be cool, but they're not missing major critical capabilities (like say, Harlequins) or tools that they really need in the toolkit, while armies like Space Marines that get new stuff seemingly every few months just because are increasingly having issues of internal balance/differentiation/bloat/obsoleting of old units/etc. A lot of other armies haven't gotten much more attention either, and not just Xenos armies.
well the canoptek suggestions are great and definitely should happen at the moment they are like the pets of necron lords .guard dogs.but taking their range and expanding it would be great. Main thing I want is pariahs. Maybe re do their background maybe don't but cool looking pariah models are severely missing in the new necron range.
Icegoat wrote: well the canoptek suggestions are great and definitely should happen at the moment they are like the pets of necron lords .guard dogs.but taking their range and expanding it would be great. Main thing I want is pariahs. Maybe re do their background maybe don't but cool looking pariah models are severely missing in the new necron range.
The canoptek are guard dogs and maintenance drones, its exactly what they're written to be. Happy to see more options for them but they need to keep that fluff.
Old pariahs became what are now lychguard, I'd be happy to see them again but they'd need a different look.
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
What 20 new units do necrons need?
I don't think we need 20 new units, but here are a few ideas...
1. Give us Canoptek HQ and Troops choices so that we can build a "Tomb World that is in maintenance mode" list. There are plenty of good Canoptek choices, but we're missing the critical ones. I'd love to be able to put together a Canoptek Patrol Detachment to represent Tomb World defenses.
2. Give us some more Triarch Praetorian options. Right now we have the basic dudes and the due riding a Stalker. We could definitely use a Triarch Praetorian HQ to add buffs and maybe something like a Triarch Heavy Weapons Team. Again, I'd love to be able to put together a proper Triarch Patrol Detachment.
3. Give us a proper transport. I'd love to be able to have a unit of Immortals AND their buff HQs disembark together.
4. Give us a proper battle tank equivalent with consistent damage output. The Annihilation Barge feels more like a fancy Land Speeder. I want a Predator equivalent. We definitely have some high damage output options, but D6 hits with D6 damage each can have crazy damage output or can be worse than a single Marine with a Boltgun.
5. Bring back Pariahs.
6. Add a generic "Flayed One" HQ or Elite that supports the Flayed Ones.
7. Either recut the Warriors kit to add more options, or add new kits featuring Warriors doing different things. They can ride bikes and pilot Annihilation Barges, so why can't they operate heavy weapons or use melee weapons?
There are a TON of new options you could add. Part of the Necron issue is that new units would be really nice. Part of the issue is that some of the units we have seem unusable because the rules aren't great.
I appreciate the time you put into this and there's some merit in some of those, I don't think they'll get that much. It also reads a lot like you want marine options in a lot of cases rather than pushing the faction in a unique direction. Nevertheless that's subjective and I thank you for constructive input.
It sounds like you view having options period as having "Marine options". I don't think that's the case; Marines don't corner the market on different loadouts or incarnations of units. This is a great list, and I think somebody could make a list like this for any Xenos faction (I could certainly do it for Tyranids right now.)
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
What 20 new units do necrons need?
I don't think we need 20 new units, but here are a few ideas...
1. Give us Canoptek HQ and Troops choices so that we can build a "Tomb World that is in maintenance mode" list. There are plenty of good Canoptek choices, but we're missing the critical ones. I'd love to be able to put together a Canoptek Patrol Detachment to represent Tomb World defenses.
2. Give us some more Triarch Praetorian options. Right now we have the basic dudes and the due riding a Stalker. We could definitely use a Triarch Praetorian HQ to add buffs and maybe something like a Triarch Heavy Weapons Team. Again, I'd love to be able to put together a proper Triarch Patrol Detachment.
3. Give us a proper transport. I'd love to be able to have a unit of Immortals AND their buff HQs disembark together.
4. Give us a proper battle tank equivalent with consistent damage output. The Annihilation Barge feels more like a fancy Land Speeder. I want a Predator equivalent. We definitely have some high damage output options, but D6 hits with D6 damage each can have crazy damage output or can be worse than a single Marine with a Boltgun.
5. Bring back Pariahs.
6. Add a generic "Flayed One" HQ or Elite that supports the Flayed Ones.
7. Either recut the Warriors kit to add more options, or add new kits featuring Warriors doing different things. They can ride bikes and pilot Annihilation Barges, so why can't they operate heavy weapons or use melee weapons?
There are a TON of new options you could add. Part of the Necron issue is that new units would be really nice. Part of the issue is that some of the units we have seem unusable because the rules aren't great.
I appreciate the time you put into this and there's some merit in some of those, I don't think they'll get that much. It also reads a lot like you want marine options in a lot of cases rather than pushing the faction in a unique direction. Nevertheless that's subjective and I thank you for constructive input.
It sounds like you view having options period as having "Marine options". I don't think that's the case; Marines don't corner the market on different loadouts or incarnations of units. This is a great list, and I think somebody could make a list like this for any Xenos faction (I could certainly do it for Tyranids right now.)
Point 4 is literally asking for something like a predator, wanting basic foot troops with heavy weapons = devastators, basic foot troops with melee weapons = assault marines.
I'm all for some of those that refine the necron imagery, but giving warriors more option to better look and behave like marines is a bad idea.
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
What 20 new units do necrons need?
I don't think we need 20 new units, but here are a few ideas...
1. Give us Canoptek HQ and Troops choices so that we can build a "Tomb World that is in maintenance mode" list. There are plenty of good Canoptek choices, but we're missing the critical ones. I'd love to be able to put together a Canoptek Patrol Detachment to represent Tomb World defenses.
2. Give us some more Triarch Praetorian options. Right now we have the basic dudes and the due riding a Stalker. We could definitely use a Triarch Praetorian HQ to add buffs and maybe something like a Triarch Heavy Weapons Team. Again, I'd love to be able to put together a proper Triarch Patrol Detachment.
3. Give us a proper transport. I'd love to be able to have a unit of Immortals AND their buff HQs disembark together.
4. Give us a proper battle tank equivalent with consistent damage output. The Annihilation Barge feels more like a fancy Land Speeder. I want a Predator equivalent. We definitely have some high damage output options, but D6 hits with D6 damage each can have crazy damage output or can be worse than a single Marine with a Boltgun.
5. Bring back Pariahs.
6. Add a generic "Flayed One" HQ or Elite that supports the Flayed Ones.
7. Either recut the Warriors kit to add more options, or add new kits featuring Warriors doing different things. They can ride bikes and pilot Annihilation Barges, so why can't they operate heavy weapons or use melee weapons?
There are a TON of new options you could add. Part of the Necron issue is that new units would be really nice. Part of the issue is that some of the units we have seem unusable because the rules aren't great.
I appreciate the time you put into this and there's some merit in some of those, I don't think they'll get that much. It also reads a lot like you want marine options in a lot of cases rather than pushing the faction in a unique direction. Nevertheless that's subjective and I thank you for constructive input.
It sounds like you view having options period as having "Marine options". I don't think that's the case; Marines don't corner the market on different loadouts or incarnations of units. This is a great list, and I think somebody could make a list like this for any Xenos faction (I could certainly do it for Tyranids right now.)
Point 4 is literally asking for something like a predator, wanting basic foot troops with heavy weapons = devastators, basic foot troops with melee weapons = assault marines.
I'm all for some of those that refine the necron imagery, but giving warriors more option to better look and behave like marines is a bad idea.
Battle Tank could also mean Leman Russ or FIre Prism though. Same with heavy weapon troops. I think it's fair to say that your posts are very Marine-centric. More than you might realise.
Dudeface wrote: Agreed and exciting to see him if it is the case, my issue with many of the posts in here is "I don't know what I want, why I want it or what for. But marines got something and people complain so I should get something too!". If GW released necron turd burglars at £30 for a box of 5 and their rules were just warriors that had a -1 to hit for 20 points a head, would that be enough?
Necron Turd Burglars are obviously £50 a box! C'mon, the sculpting work that went into those models is worth at least that much.
Actually you're a good example AAE, as much I don't think we should be spamming out supplements for everyone, your want for speed freaks units is a valid request. You can example a unit that exists in the fluff, why it would work on the tabletop and how it gives a new kit opportunity. Rather than just wanting more orks.
You're making me blush now! In seriousness not everyone has the time nor the inclination to put as much thought into this stuff as some of us. I could probably think of some new Necron units in a pinch (apart from the legendary Turd Burglars of course). Those people who don't have the time or inclination to come up with new model ideas shouldn't have their faction punished for that though, right?
An Actual Englishman wrote: It's not the responsibility of the consumers to develop product on GW's behalf. I didn't see any SM players suggesting Primaris and since their release people have effectively asked for Primaris versions of existing things, rather than something wholly new. Furthermore this topic isn't an exercise in suggesting new units for Necrons. The OP is frustrated at the lack of releases for his faction while suffering through a glut of marines.
More on topic Necrons may well be getting their Silent King that I think will be their "Primarch" tier character. That should be pretty exciting if it's true.
Eh, I'm not thrilled by the prospect of seeing yet more primarch level special snowflakes in the game, especially one that's emblematic of necrons going from T-800 murderbots to Egyptian Walt Kowalski in space.
I'd like it more if Necron got some actual heavy vehicles (a proper tank would be nice) and a canoptek hq and troops unit, so you can field proper robot armies.
Oh, and rules for the Severance would be nice too. Throw in pariahs and a generic C'tan model that doesn't require buying a 100+ euro kit too and that would pretty much be everything I want to see.
I'm just the messenger man!
If you want my 2 cents though (apologies, I know you didn't ask for it) I like the idea of each faction receiving a Primarch level character because it raises them to the standard of Marines. It raises the stakes and in the case of Orks and Necrons it makes their threat far more legitimate.
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
What 20 new units do necrons need?
I don't think we need 20 new units, but here are a few ideas...
1. Give us Canoptek HQ and Troops choices so that we can build a "Tomb World that is in maintenance mode" list. There are plenty of good Canoptek choices, but we're missing the critical ones. I'd love to be able to put together a Canoptek Patrol Detachment to represent Tomb World defenses.
2. Give us some more Triarch Praetorian options. Right now we have the basic dudes and the due riding a Stalker. We could definitely use a Triarch Praetorian HQ to add buffs and maybe something like a Triarch Heavy Weapons Team. Again, I'd love to be able to put together a proper Triarch Patrol Detachment.
3. Give us a proper transport. I'd love to be able to have a unit of Immortals AND their buff HQs disembark together.
4. Give us a proper battle tank equivalent with consistent damage output. The Annihilation Barge feels more like a fancy Land Speeder. I want a Predator equivalent. We definitely have some high damage output options, but D6 hits with D6 damage each can have crazy damage output or can be worse than a single Marine with a Boltgun.
5. Bring back Pariahs.
6. Add a generic "Flayed One" HQ or Elite that supports the Flayed Ones.
7. Either recut the Warriors kit to add more options, or add new kits featuring Warriors doing different things. They can ride bikes and pilot Annihilation Barges, so why can't they operate heavy weapons or use melee weapons?
There are a TON of new options you could add. Part of the Necron issue is that new units would be really nice. Part of the issue is that some of the units we have seem unusable because the rules aren't great.
I appreciate the time you put into this and there's some merit in some of those, I don't think they'll get that much. It also reads a lot like you want marine options in a lot of cases rather than pushing the faction in a unique direction. Nevertheless that's subjective and I thank you for constructive input.
It sounds like you view having options period as having "Marine options". I don't think that's the case; Marines don't corner the market on different loadouts or incarnations of units. This is a great list, and I think somebody could make a list like this for any Xenos faction (I could certainly do it for Tyranids right now.)
Point 4 is literally asking for something like a predator, wanting basic foot troops with heavy weapons = devastators, basic foot troops with melee weapons = assault marines.
I'm all for some of those that refine the necron imagery, but giving warriors more option to better look and behave like marines is a bad idea.
Battle Tank could also mean Leman Russ or FIre Prism though. Same with heavy weapon troops. I think it's fair to say that your posts are very Marine-centric. More than you might realise.
"I want a Predator equivalent." Was the wording used?
I'd be all for some cooky stuff, how about a necron walking alongside a multi limbed beamer weapon, attached to their head by a big optics cable. Or perhaps a swarm esque unit made of robot tentacle limbs, really high wound count but with rubbish toughness/saves. Something different, something necrontyr, not just a warrior holding a bigger gun.
Everyone has an idea for what would be cool for different factions, getting more stuff for everyone is always nice, fully encourage it!
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
What 20 new units do necrons need?
I don't think we need 20 new units, but here are a few ideas...
1. Give us Canoptek HQ and Troops choices so that we can build a "Tomb World that is in maintenance mode" list. There are plenty of good Canoptek choices, but we're missing the critical ones. I'd love to be able to put together a Canoptek Patrol Detachment to represent Tomb World defenses.
2. Give us some more Triarch Praetorian options. Right now we have the basic dudes and the due riding a Stalker. We could definitely use a Triarch Praetorian HQ to add buffs and maybe something like a Triarch Heavy Weapons Team. Again, I'd love to be able to put together a proper Triarch Patrol Detachment.
3. Give us a proper transport. I'd love to be able to have a unit of Immortals AND their buff HQs disembark together.
4. Give us a proper battle tank equivalent with consistent damage output. The Annihilation Barge feels more like a fancy Land Speeder. I want a Predator equivalent. We definitely have some high damage output options, but D6 hits with D6 damage each can have crazy damage output or can be worse than a single Marine with a Boltgun.
5. Bring back Pariahs.
6. Add a generic "Flayed One" HQ or Elite that supports the Flayed Ones.
7. Either recut the Warriors kit to add more options, or add new kits featuring Warriors doing different things. They can ride bikes and pilot Annihilation Barges, so why can't they operate heavy weapons or use melee weapons?
There are a TON of new options you could add. Part of the Necron issue is that new units would be really nice. Part of the issue is that some of the units we have seem unusable because the rules aren't great.
I appreciate the time you put into this and there's some merit in some of those, I don't think they'll get that much. It also reads a lot like you want marine options in a lot of cases rather than pushing the faction in a unique direction. Nevertheless that's subjective and I thank you for constructive input.
It sounds like you view having options period as having "Marine options". I don't think that's the case; Marines don't corner the market on different loadouts or incarnations of units. This is a great list, and I think somebody could make a list like this for any Xenos faction (I could certainly do it for Tyranids right now.)
Point 4 is literally asking for something like a predator, wanting basic foot troops with heavy weapons = devastators, basic foot troops with melee weapons = assault marines.
I'm all for some of those that refine the necron imagery, but giving warriors more option to better look and behave like marines is a bad idea.
Battle Tank could also mean Leman Russ or FIre Prism though. Same with heavy weapon troops. I think it's fair to say that your posts are very Marine-centric. More than you might realise.
"I want a Predator equivalent." Was the wording used?
I'd be all for some cooky stuff, how about a necron walking alongside a multi limbed beamer weapon, attached to their head by a big optics cable. Or perhaps a swarm esque unit made of robot tentacle limbs, really high wound count but with rubbish toughness/saves. Something different, something necrontyr, not just a warrior holding a bigger gun.
Everyone has an idea for what would be cool for different factions, getting more stuff for everyone is always nice, fully encourage it!
I would agree, and as I have said in this thread, I actually don't want any new models. Just a new Codex. But there's plenty of people who will dismiss that outright anyways.
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
What 20 new units do necrons need?
I don't think we need 20 new units, but here are a few ideas...
1. Give us Canoptek HQ and Troops choices so that we can build a "Tomb World that is in maintenance mode" list. There are plenty of good Canoptek choices, but we're missing the critical ones. I'd love to be able to put together a Canoptek Patrol Detachment to represent Tomb World defenses.
2. Give us some more Triarch Praetorian options. Right now we have the basic dudes and the due riding a Stalker. We could definitely use a Triarch Praetorian HQ to add buffs and maybe something like a Triarch Heavy Weapons Team. Again, I'd love to be able to put together a proper Triarch Patrol Detachment.
3. Give us a proper transport. I'd love to be able to have a unit of Immortals AND their buff HQs disembark together.
4. Give us a proper battle tank equivalent with consistent damage output. The Annihilation Barge feels more like a fancy Land Speeder. I want a Predator equivalent. We definitely have some high damage output options, but D6 hits with D6 damage each can have crazy damage output or can be worse than a single Marine with a Boltgun.
5. Bring back Pariahs.
6. Add a generic "Flayed One" HQ or Elite that supports the Flayed Ones.
7. Either recut the Warriors kit to add more options, or add new kits featuring Warriors doing different things. They can ride bikes and pilot Annihilation Barges, so why can't they operate heavy weapons or use melee weapons?
There are a TON of new options you could add. Part of the Necron issue is that new units would be really nice. Part of the issue is that some of the units we have seem unusable because the rules aren't great.
I appreciate the time you put into this and there's some merit in some of those, I don't think they'll get that much. It also reads a lot like you want marine options in a lot of cases rather than pushing the faction in a unique direction. Nevertheless that's subjective and I thank you for constructive input.
It sounds like you view having options period as having "Marine options". I don't think that's the case; Marines don't corner the market on different loadouts or incarnations of units. This is a great list, and I think somebody could make a list like this for any Xenos faction (I could certainly do it for Tyranids right now.)
Point 4 is literally asking for something like a predator, wanting basic foot troops with heavy weapons = devastators, basic foot troops with melee weapons = assault marines.
I'm all for some of those that refine the necron imagery, but giving warriors more option to better look and behave like marines is a bad idea.
Battle Tank could also mean Leman Russ or FIre Prism though. Same with heavy weapon troops. I think it's fair to say that your posts are very Marine-centric. More than you might realise.
"I want a Predator equivalent." Was the wording used?
I'd be all for some cooky stuff, how about a necron walking alongside a multi limbed beamer weapon, attached to their head by a big optics cable. Or perhaps a swarm esque unit made of robot tentacle limbs, really high wound count but with rubbish toughness/saves. Something different, something necrontyr, not just a warrior holding a bigger gun.
Everyone has an idea for what would be cool for different factions, getting more stuff for everyone is always nice, fully encourage it!
I would agree, and as I have said in this thread, I actually don't want any new models. Just a new Codex. But there's plenty of people who will dismiss that outright anyways.
Oh I definitely agree, the current system for res protocols is an impossible task to balance and barely useful a lot of the time. Theres some real changes to be made to their special flavour that could help.
Icegoat wrote: I mean all xenos armies are very much in a terrible place when it comes to releases. But necrons could do with about twenty new units and of all shapes and sizes. I firmly believe dark eldar and eldar are dead as they currently are and will be reformed in a few years to something new. How many people are buying clawed fiends and haemonculus on a daily basis.not many that's for sure.
What 20 new units do necrons need?
I don't think we need 20 new units, but here are a few ideas... 1. Give us Canoptek HQ and Troops choices so that we can build a "Tomb World that is in maintenance mode" list. There are plenty of good Canoptek choices, but we're missing the critical ones. I'd love to be able to put together a Canoptek Patrol Detachment to represent Tomb World defenses. 2. Give us some more Triarch Praetorian options. Right now we have the basic dudes and the due riding a Stalker. We could definitely use a Triarch Praetorian HQ to add buffs and maybe something like a Triarch Heavy Weapons Team. Again, I'd love to be able to put together a proper Triarch Patrol Detachment. 3. Give us a proper transport. I'd love to be able to have a unit of Immortals AND their buff HQs disembark together. 4. Give us a proper battle tank equivalent with consistent damage output. The Annihilation Barge feels more like a fancy Land Speeder. I want a Predator equivalent. We definitely have some high damage output options, but D6 hits with D6 damage each can have crazy damage output or can be worse than a single Marine with a Boltgun. 5. Bring back Pariahs. 6. Add a generic "Flayed One" HQ or Elite that supports the Flayed Ones. 7. Either recut the Warriors kit to add more options, or add new kits featuring Warriors doing different things. They can ride bikes and pilot Annihilation Barges, so why can't they operate heavy weapons or use melee weapons?
There are a TON of new options you could add. Part of the Necron issue is that new units would be really nice. Part of the issue is that some of the units we have seem unusable because the rules aren't great.
I appreciate the time you put into this and there's some merit in some of those, I don't think they'll get that much. It also reads a lot like you want marine options in a lot of cases rather than pushing the faction in a unique direction. Nevertheless that's subjective and I thank you for constructive input.
It sounds like you view having options period as having "Marine options". I don't think that's the case; Marines don't corner the market on different loadouts or incarnations of units. This is a great list, and I think somebody could make a list like this for any Xenos faction (I could certainly do it for Tyranids right now.)
Point 4 is literally asking for something like a predator, wanting basic foot troops with heavy weapons = devastators, basic foot troops with melee weapons = assault marines.
I'm all for some of those that refine the necron imagery, but giving warriors more option to better look and behave like marines is a bad idea.
Yeah, because predators are the only tanks in the game Also, pretty sure every faction except necrons can take basic infantry with special / heavy weapons / melee options. Though it shouldn't be warriors that have extra options; that should be an immortal thing. Immortals should also be able to mix and match like everyone else.
I'd be all for some cooky stuff, how about a necron walking alongside a multi limbed beamer weapon, attached to their head by a big optics cable. Or perhaps a swarm esque unit made of robot tentacle limbs, really high wound count but with rubbish toughness/saves. Something different, something necrontyr, not just a warrior holding a bigger gun.
Everyone has an idea for what would be cool for different factions, getting more stuff for everyone is always nice, fully encourage it!
Yeah, those ideas are pretty cool. Necrons should take a little inspiration from War of the Worlds, but it should be mostly chthonic.
So is this an attempt to bring something positive out of this (admittedly) negative thread? I'm in. Bear in mind I don't play Necrons so my knowledge of their lore and where the army is lacking isn't up to speed. That said, some humble suggestions as follows;
I could think of like 3 more C'tan variants right now without breaking a sweat;
- C'tan shard of the Lifegiver (If there's a "Deathbringer", there must be the opposite, right?) Spawns weird organic stuff.
- C'tan shard of the Void. Psychic shutdown for the enemy. Uses C'tan power to make enemy psychic tests more risky and/or fail within an aura. Bonus damage vs Psykers. Can cast (to really rub salt in))
- C'tan shard of the Corruptor - turns enemy units against their own faction in some way.
Each of these is presented in a new C'tan multpart kit that can build all 3 variants. Equivalent to a Greater Daemon kit. Approximately as big as a Greater Daemon.
A new Necron Vehicle that is basically a load of warriors and the corpses of their enemies mashed together to make a horrible, big chimera. Call them a random Egyptian God or something, I don't know, Anubis (Anuubs plural). Ranged primarily. Aesthetic to fit in with the flayed ones.
Is Necron metal supposed to be able to liquify to repair itself? Why not some T1000 style half liquid, half solid style creation? Dreadnought or Terminator sized, close combat specialist. Liquid impaling blades like the T1000.
A stealth unit that can (in the lore) disguise itself as another race. Hides in plain sight. Disrupts enemy CP generation and/or deployment.
Funnily enough, in the 3rd ed codex there were 2 other C'tan mentioned.
Void Dragon - The most powerful of the C'tan. It had such a mastery over physics that soldiers belonging to it were practically invincible, and also had a nasty habit of being able to channel lightning. Also implied to have some sort of affinity with machinery and was the creator of those anti-warp pylons on Cadia. The Black Stone Fortresses were created specifically to counter it.
The Outsider - Basically a C'tan in exile. Hangs out in a Dyson sphere on the edge of the galaxy, and generates a general field of "nope" that invokes madness. Not even nids want to be near it.
The necrons didn't actually have an Egyptian naming convention or even pure Egyptian theming; their theme was sepulchral or chthonic, with a touch of rebirth in there was well. There was some Egypt in there, but that's because the Egyptians were well known for their mortuary cults. Necrons also took themes from European ghost stories and horror (a Wraith is a scottish ghost, spiders being associated with the dead is a western thing, iirc) and even the Aztecs (Flayed Ones are based off of Xipe Xotec priests. They would wear the skins of their human sacrifices, and Xipe Xotec was the god of death and rebirth, which are necron themes).
As such, I'd like to see necrons move away from Egypt in space and back to horror / death in space. Maybe a type of support unit called a necromantek, that's basically several crypteks fused to a large mechanical construct. Basically, think Gravelord Nito crossed with a big bug.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I did indeed mean Guardians. Kit shows it’s age in terms Of contents, but the assembled models really don’t look their age.
And you're still wrong - on the date. Plastic Guardians have existed since at least 2e, and possibly the RT days.
Originally they came armed with lasguns. At some point the box was ugraded to include shurikin catapults as well.
Necrons are one of those factions that are borderline "everyone who would be interested in this, are already playing it"
The exception would be if they made Wraiths and Triarch Stalkers good and added more similar-aesthetic things to those, and give them synergy, then people who are into that kind of thing could become interested in Necrons.
It's really bizarre how cool Wraiths and Triarch Stalkers are with such garbage rules and no synergy, and being divorced from the rest of the faction aesthetically.
I'm a pulp junkie and old crons were perfect pulp.
New crons have a different flavour; one I half like while the other half remembers how metal they were.
Anyway, crons are pretty (sadly) complete unless they expand Crypteks (Hello cryptek artefacts, give us those back thanks) or push other "corrupted" crons like destroyers or flayed ones.
Here's a list of things off the top of my head they can do:
- Dragon corrupted necrons
- Pariahs (But this time from Primaris, Primiahs?)
- Nobles who have tried to create synthetic bio bodies
- Silent King
- Silent King's retinue
- Re-imagining of the monolith
- More Ctan (The outsider)
- Melee Deathmark assasins with Hyperphase swords
- Alien reinforcements from beyond the galaxy (thanks, silent king)
- Actual Necrontyr found from beyond the galaxy (thanks, silent king)
- Xenos bio-weapons derived from tyranids (thanks, silent king)
- Pokemon from Trazyn (thanks, sile - trazyn)
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I did indeed mean Guardians. Kit shows it’s age in terms Of contents, but the assembled models really don’t look their age.
And you're still wrong - on the date. Plastic Guardians have existed since at least 2e, and possibly the RT days.
Originally they came armed with lasguns. At some point the box was ugraded to include shurikin catapults as well.
My own initial boxes, bought within the 1st year of 2e, had only the lasguns.
Without even looking I can tell you Guardians got a revamped box during 3rd. That is what MDG is referring to, not the plastic ones that came with lasguns and later metal shuriken catapults.
Oh yeah? And DA, BA, SW, GK are just Spooky, Vampire, Viking, Shiny Space Marines, respectively. Except even MORE alike than Crons were to Nids. Hmmm. . . ? Not to mention Chaos Marines. Or that Tau are just Gundam Eldar.
The reason Necrons don't get releases is because they are a fourth class army, like all Xenos armies.
Tier 1: Space Marines
Tier 2: Other Imperials
Tier 3: Chaos
Tier 4: Xenos
Xenos factions don't need development because they only exist to provide foils for the Space Marines to beat up. They are not "real" factions and GW does not care about them because they know the majority of the playerbase hates them the same way they hate all Xenos. After all, what are bunch of pee wee robots gonna do against a 12 foot tall Marine badass?
Nothing, that's what. Take your licks and like it, that is your role as a Xenos player. You are only in the game to make the marine players feel cool.
Snark aside, Da Boss is, more or less, correct. GW recognizes that it makes more money off Marines than off of the other Factions. So, they devote more time, energy, and resources towards what makes them the most profit. It's kind of a vicious cycle.
Da Boss wrote: The reason Necrons don't get releases is because they are a fourth class army, like all Xenos armies.
Tier 1: Space Marines
Tier 2: Other Imperials
Tier 3: Chaos
Tier 4: Xenos
Xenos factions don't need development because they only exist to provide foils for the Space Marines to beat up. They are not "real" factions and GW does not care about them because they know the majority of the playerbase hates them the same way they hate all Xenos. After all, what are bunch of pee wee robots gonna do against a 12 foot tall Marine badass?
Nothing, that's what. Take your licks and like it, that is your role as a Xenos player. You are only in the game to make the marine players feel cool.
Historically you could probably shuffle Other Imperials, Tau, and Xenos around quite a bit in terms of studio priority.
Tau are nothing but Xenos scum anyway. No way are they more important than other Imperials.
There are 21 Imperial factions in the game, 12 of them some form of Space Marine. There's your studio focus.
Xenos players just need to accept that they are background characters in the Space Marines story. If they got updates it would upset the Marine players, and they are just more important people.
I'd like to point the amount of Tau and Eldar hate out there. They are both well treated Xenos armies. Conversely I do feel Necrons and Tyranids are less updated but tend to get larger lump upgrades.
Necrons do kinda need a new book. If you were given a dual flayed one/pariah kit and plasticized characters. Plus a never seen kit it would do much to quell angst
Da Boss wrote: Tau are nothing but Xenos scum anyway. No way are they more important than other Imperials.
Sisters from ~2003 through 2018 say hi.
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captain collius wrote: I'd like to point the amount of Tau and Eldar hate out there. They are both well treated Xenos armies. Conversely I do feel Necrons and Tyranids are less updated but tend to get larger lump upgrades.
Necrons do kinda need a new book. If you were given a dual flayed one/pariah kit and plasticized characters. Plus a never seen kit it would do much to quell angst
The Tyranid model range is pretty dang up to date and almost completely plastic, too.
flandarz wrote: Snark aside, Da Boss is, more or less, correct. GW recognizes that it makes more money off Marines than off of the other Factions. So, they devote more time, energy, and resources towards what makes them the most profit. It's kind of a vicious cycle.
I'd be curious how popular 'crons are, given their massive 5th editioning retconned history did GW do that because 'crons wheren't selling well and they hoped to reinvigorate intreast?
honestly it'd be intreasting to see the sales figures for 40k across the various lines. I suspect we'd see some suprises
I think we'd like to see those numbers regardless, Brian. I'm curious as to how successful each range really is, and if some products we think are popular are losing traction (or vice versa, going up in sales).
The Tyranid model range is pretty dang up to date and almost completely plastic, too.
It's actually rather maddening that GW still hasn't replaced the last two main line models with plastic updates. A combined plastic biovore/pyrovore and combined plastic lictor/deathleaper kit would basically remove all the finecast from the range in the regular unit slots, leaving only the special character Red Terror. Honestly I fully expect those two kits to come and be sets of 3 just like the other elite packs GW did. That it hasn't happened yet (and that one or both didn't appear in the Awakening releases) is still a big surprise and point of confusion for me.
It would basically leave Tyranids only needing to update old plastics (termagaunts with single part heads PLEASE) or releasing new ideas.
I for one am almost constantly on the edge of starting Crons, but the 5th Ed. treatment irks me, and one of my favorite models, the Monolith, just doesn't seem very viable, game-wise.
If I could run an old style Warrior, Immortal, Monolith phalanx, and get a little more lore-support that called back to the character of the 3rd Ed. book. I'd start buyin.
New Flayed-Ones, too.
Wishlist, pump Warrior and Immortal stats to be more like their earlier versions as well.
The Tyranid model range is pretty dang up to date and almost completely plastic, too.
It's actually rather maddening that GW still hasn't replaced the last two main line models with plastic updates. A combined plastic biovore/pyrovore and combined plastic lictor/deathleaper kit would basically remove all the finecast from the range in the regular unit slots, leaving only the special character Red Terror. Honestly I fully expect those two kits to come and be sets of 3 just like the other elite packs GW did. That it hasn't happened yet (and that one or both didn't appear in the Awakening releases) is still a big surprise and point of confusion for me.
It would basically leave Tyranids only needing to update old plastics (termagaunts with single part heads PLEASE) or releasing new ideas.
I just finished some metal Lictors and, ohh, how I wish they were plastic instead.
captain collius wrote: Necrons do kinda need a new book. If you were given a dual flayed one/pariah kit and plasticized characters. Plus a never seen kit it would do much to quell angst
A dual Flayed One/Warrior recut would make more sense IMO. You would really just have to replace the arms, head, and back.
As such, I'd like to see necrons move away from Egypt in space and back to horror / death in space. Maybe a type of support unit called a necromantek, that's basically several crypteks fused to a large mechanical construct. Basically, think Gravelord Nito crossed with a big bug.
This.
I sighed up for 'soulless, undying alien terminators', not 'Tomb Kings IN SPAAAAAAACE'.
Units which exist but don't have models (not an exhaustive list):
- Lychguard with different weapons (scythe/shield, axe/shield, ranged weapons
- Destroyers with different weapons (tesla cannon)
- non-Canoptek Wraiths
- heavy/builder Scarabs
- four-winged Canoptek flyer
- lesser Dynasts and/or Lords with different weapons; spyder-Lords/quadroped-Lords/squid-Lords, flayer Lords, etc.
- Triarch Judicator
- Pariahs
- Annointed Immortal
Units/models which need plastic kits:
- Flayed Ones
- Heavy Destroyers
- A C'tan which doesn't leave you with a spare Obelisk
- Cryptek on foot
- Destroyer Lords
(- new Warriors/Scarabs)
Stuff to take from Forge World:
- Sentry Plylons (1/3 varaiants unavailable currently)
- Gauss Pylon
- Acanthrites
- Tomb Stalkers/Sentinels
- Tesseract Ark
Other options:
- a revision of the warbarque concept (medium/heavy troop 'transport')
- return of the original Obelisk concept (light Particle Whip platform)
- larger canoptek construct between a Tomb Spyder and Seraptek (robo-carnifex)
- Setekh level Lord construct (Knight equivalent)
- mindshackle scarab zombies
- Harvester (Baneblade size scarab monster/vehicle)
- expand on Royal Court theme with Cryptek covens, lesser attendant Dynasts, Vargards, Nemessors etc.
- the floaty head that everyone remembers from that time Kal Jericho boarded a space hulk with his Inquisitor mother...
- miniature version of the AEonic Orb
- Necron drop pods (thanks Hellforged (not!))
- Lord walker-thing from Mephiston's Super Fun Necron Adventure
Honestly, I find myself wondering whether Necrons need new models or just better rules.
(Just to be clear, I'm talking about models the army desperately needs, not just stuff that might be nice to have.)
For example, it seems like the Destroyer Lord should be buffing stuff like Wraiths, Scarabs and Praetorians - i.e. other fast melee units. But instead he's locked into a ridiculous niche of only being able to buff one specific ranged unit.
Then you've got Spyders being incredibly fragile whilst lacking any meaningful role.
Every Tesla weapon not being carried by an Immortal is garbage . . . which is bad news for the Annihilation Barge as it's the only option available for its main gun.
The whole transport system for Necrons is still a hot mess.
I don't know, it just seems to me that a big part of the problem is that so many Necron models are currently being under-utilised.
If I was going to ask for one new model it would probably be in the Troop department. Which is your favourite Necron troop choice - the slow, footslogging shooty unit or the other slow, footslogging shooty unit?
vipoid wrote: If I was going to ask for one new model it would probably be in the Troop department. Which is your favourite Necron troop choice - the slow, footslogging shooty unit or the other slow, footslogging shooty unit?
I still don't understand why Flayers or Scarabs can't be troops. Necrons in 8th were an effort in frustration to play. I just couldnt do it anymore and shelved mine.
I think having a medium/heavy tank in between a Predator and a Leman Russ would be a desirable option. Right now the choices are a light tank equivalent, a tank destroyer equivalent and the Monolith, and that feels a little limited to me.
Flayers moving to Troops and being made plastic would be great, and bring in the Slayer King would bring in some options to have some fun with.
Da Boss wrote: The reason Necrons don't get releases is because they are a fourth class army, like all Xenos armies.
Tier 1: Space Marines
Tier 2: Other Imperials
Tier 3: Chaos
Tier 4: Xenos
Xenos factions don't need development because they only exist to provide foils for the Space Marines to beat up. They are not "real" factions and GW does not care about them because they know the majority of the playerbase hates them the same way they hate all Xenos. After all, what are bunch of pee wee robots gonna do against a 12 foot tall Marine badass?
Nothing, that's what. Take your licks and like it, that is your role as a Xenos player. You are only in the game to make the marine players feel cool.
Yeah, Marines are the favorites, the flagship product line. That said, Chaos Marine stuff is typically distinctly afterthought in nature while Daemons tend to get irregular attention. With respect to the other Imperial armies, Sisters were still using the same Battle Sisters kit that came out in 2E until literally weeks ago, and got their first real actual codex release, on par with other main factions, for the first time since 3E. Guard have been hot garbage in terms of rules through most editions of the game (even if they aren't now) and have largely the same product line they did in 3E (the tanks got slightly redone in 2009 to remove the road wheels, add Russ turret variants, slightly rework the geometry on the flank sides and turrets, and removed the Vehicle Accessory Sprue, but that's it) with almost as many outright removals (e.g. Griffon, Rough Riders) as additions. It's hard to see where this list is coming from.
Likewise, with respect to competitiveness, Xenos armies have their own haves and have nots. Eldar are generally top tier every edition, with Tau and Necrons historically being highly capable in most through the history of the game, whatever one considers their status to be now. Orks, DE, and Tyranids on the other hand...have not been so.
vipoid wrote: Honestly, I find myself wondering whether Necrons need new models or just better rules.
(Just to be clear, I'm talking about models the army desperately needs, not just stuff that might be nice to have.)
For example, it seems like the Destroyer Lord should be buffing stuff like Wraiths, Scarabs and Praetorians - i.e. other fast melee units. But instead he's locked into a ridiculous niche of only being able to buff one specific ranged unit.
Then you've got Spyders being incredibly fragile whilst lacking any meaningful role.
Every Tesla weapon not being carried by an Immortal is garbage . . . which is bad news for the Annihilation Barge as it's the only option available for its main gun.
The whole transport system for Necrons is still a hot mess.
I don't know, it just seems to me that a big part of the problem is that so many Necron models are currently being under-utilised.
If I was going to ask for one new model it would probably be in the Troop department. Which is your favourite Necron troop choice - the slow, footslogging shooty unit or the other slow, footslogging shooty unit?
It's weird, because while I agree with the analysis of the army, in 6E/7E they were so tightly written around the core rules (enhanced rear armor for defense against CC attacks, extra HP's on basic transports, quantum shielding protecting against HP stripping spam attacks, flyer transports that didn't risk passengers, weapons that worked almost as well on Snapshots as they did normally, tons of units able to make use of Jink, etc), and had so many overlapping synergistic abilities, that they were a constant dominating force through both editions despite not having any particularly standout raw killing power. One the one hand, I'm glad they're not *that* powerful (although the game in general seems on insisting on heading back in the 7E direction these days), but it also seems like they just never quite translated right into 8E rules-wise.
Da Boss wrote: The reason Necrons don't get releases is because they are a fourth class army, like all Xenos armies.
Tier 1: Space Marines
Tier 2: Other Imperials
Tier 3: Chaos
Tier 4: Xenos
Xenos factions don't need development because they only exist to provide foils for the Space Marines to beat up. They are not "real" factions and GW does not care about them because they know the majority of the playerbase hates them the same way they hate all Xenos. After all, what are bunch of pee wee robots gonna do against a 12 foot tall Marine badass?
Nothing, that's what. Take your licks and like it, that is your role as a Xenos player. You are only in the game to make the marine players feel cool.
Yeah, Marines are the favorites, the flagship product line. That said, Chaos Marine stuff is typically distinctly afterthought in nature while Daemons tend to get irregular attention. With respect to the other Imperial armies, Sisters were still using the same Battle Sisters kit that came out in 2E until literally weeks ago, and got their first real actual codex release, on par with other main factions, for the first time since 3E. Guard have been hot garbage in terms of rules through most editions of the game (even if they aren't now) and have largely the same product line they did in 3E (the tanks got slightly redone in 2009 to remove the road wheels, add Russ turret variants, slightly rework the geometry on the flank sides and. turrets, and removed the Vehicle Accessory Sprue, but that's it) with almost as many outright removals (e.g. Griffon, Rough Riders) as additions. It's hard to see where this list is coming from.
But at the same time Imperial Armies have seen entire releases that you've not really mentioned. Excluding the full Sisters revamp there's been Custodes, IK and Ad Mech all recently added to the game. They're full lines. Ad Mech continue to get a glut of releases from GW. Chaos have received not only generic updates but full lines in the cases of TS and DG. The daemon faction is virtually complete with very little finecast remaining.
The tier list is probably more like;
1. Space Marines.
2 & 3. Chaos and other Imperial Armies.
4. Xenos.
As for rules; excluding Eldar very few Xenos factions have been competitively viable for the majority of the game's existence.
Da Boss wrote: The reason Necrons don't get releases is because they are a fourth class army, like all Xenos armies.
Tier 1: Space Marines
Tier 2: Other Imperials
Tier 3: Chaos
Tier 4: Xenos
Xenos factions don't need development because they only exist to provide foils for the Space Marines to beat up. They are not "real" factions and GW does not care about them because they know the majority of the playerbase hates them the same way they hate all Xenos. After all, what are bunch of pee wee robots gonna do against a 12 foot tall Marine badass?
Nothing, that's what. Take your licks and like it, that is your role as a Xenos player. You are only in the game to make the marine players feel cool.
Yeah, Marines are the favorites, the flagship product line. That said, Chaos Marine stuff is typically distinctly afterthought in nature while Daemons tend to get irregular attention. With respect to the other Imperial armies, Sisters were still using the same Battle Sisters kit that came out in 2E until literally weeks ago, and got their first real actual codex release, on par with other main factions, for the first time since 3E. Guard have been hot garbage in terms of rules through most editions of the game (even if they aren't now) and have largely the same product line they did in 3E (the tanks got slightly redone in 2009 to remove the road wheels, add Russ turret variants, slightly rework the geometry on the flank sides and. turrets, and removed the Vehicle Accessory Sprue, but that's it) with almost as many outright removals (e.g. Griffon, Rough Riders) as additions. It's hard to see where this list is coming from.
But at the same time Imperial Armies have seen entire releases that you've not really mentioned. Excluding the full Sisters revamp there's been Custodes, IK and Ad Mech all recently added to the game. They're full lines. Ad Mech continue to get a glut of releases from GW. Chaos have received not only generic updates but full lines in the cases of TS and DG. The daemon faction is virtually complete with very little finecast remaining.
Eh, sorta, Custodes and IK aren't particularly full lines, IK is really 3 units with some weapons swaps, Custodes have a few more, but both combined have fewer datasheets than Necrons do. With respect to the AdMech, I'd argue that's because they're still being fleshed out. They were an incomplete (of all factions the AdMech doesn't launch with a transport option...?) and incomprehensibly broken up faction when first introduced (Skitarii as a distinct force from the rest of the AdMech) that they've been trying to patch them up ever since. Daemons indeed have little finecast remaining and a very complete product line, but that's a process that started 12 years ago at the end of 4th edition with a line that often stretched back to the early-mid 1990's and the era of 2E (for example the Greater Daemons). In that same timespan, Necrons and DE both got almost entirely new product lines themselves.
The tier list is probably more like;
1. Space Marines.
2 & 3. Chaos and other Imperial Armies.
4. Xenos.
As for rules; excluding Eldar very few Xenos factions have been competitively viable for the majority of the game's existence.
To me, in general this way of classifying faction in respect to model releases misses too much. There's lots of disparate factions with wildly differing product line ages and support levels, and lots of releases that aren't relevant to many different factions (e.g. Thousand Sons and Death Guard stuff means absolutely nothing for my Iron Warriors for example, for which I've bought 5 models in the last decade despite playing them through each edition). As things currently stand today, I think it's a lot more simply "Space Marines" and "everyone else".
As for Xenos being competitive through the games existence, in my experience, and not counting RT/2E, Eldar and Tau have been highly competitive in every edition except 5th, Necrons were likewise in everything but 5th and 8th, Tyranids have at least had limited competitive builds through most editions (even if it was just flyrant spam, though admittedly often have had issues making much of the codex work and significant design philosophy problems), pretty much only Orks and Eldar have had consistent below average performance. By the same token, the non-SM Imperial armies tended to not get much competitive love over the editions (e.g. IG have historically been pretty mid-garbage level except 5th and 8th, not much needs saying about Sisters, etc) until GW decided entire armies of superheavies were going to be a thing
If I could run an old style Warrior, Immortal, Monolith phalanx, and get a little more lore-support that called back to the character of the 3rd Ed. book. I'd start buyin.
Yup same here.
Bought a semi fluffy Cron list around mid 7th hoping that 8th would improve a few things.
Two Monoliths still sitting on the shelf :(
DudleyGrim wrote: I still don't understand why Flayers or Scarabs can't be troops. Necrons in 8th were an effort in frustration to play. I just couldnt do it anymore and shelved mine.
Scarabs as troops would be a really nice alternative, giving us a fast moving chaff/melee unit.
It would also make a lot of sense, given that the art frequently depicts Necron armies as having hordes of the things, so they hardly seem rare.
Vaktathi wrote: It's weird, because while I agree with the analysis of the army, in 6E/7E they were so tightly written around the core rules (enhanced rear armor for defense against CC attacks, extra HP's on basic transports, quantum shielding protecting against HP stripping spam attacks, flyer transports that didn't risk passengers, weapons that worked almost as well on Snapshots as they did normally, tons of units able to make use of Jink, etc), and had so many overlapping synergistic abilities, that they were a constant dominating force through both editions despite not having any particularly standout raw killing power. One the one hand, I'm glad they're not *that* powerful (although the game in general seems on insisting on heading back in the 7E direction these days), but it also seems like they just never quite translated right into 8E rules-wise.
Oh, I think that's very fair.
Personally, I wasn't even a fan of Necrons in 7th because, whilst they were certainly effective, they were also very boring to play and to play against.
Units which exist but don't have models (not an exhaustive list):
- Lychguard with different weapons (scythe/shield, axe/shield, ranged weapons
- Destroyers with different weapons (tesla cannon)
- non-Canoptek Wraiths
- heavy/builder Scarabs
- four-winged Canoptek flyer
- lesser Dynasts and/or Lords with different weapons; spyder-Lords/quadroped-Lords/squid-Lords, flayer Lords, etc.
- Triarch Judicator
- Pariahs
- Annointed Immortal
Most of these I've not read of in the fluff but a destroyer with a Tesla gun is reasonable as a suggestion, so are a few more characters. Non-canoptek wraiths are a dead concept sorry, likewise the entire design point of lychguard is they don't have ranged weapons.
Units/models which need plastic kits:
- Flayed Ones
- Heavy Destroyers
- A C'tan which doesn't leave you with a spare Obelisk
- Cryptek on foot
- Destroyer Lords
(- new Warriors/Scarabs)
This is full on lala land stuff now, 1 fortification is fine, just listing every building from DoW isn't helping.
Stuff to take from Forge World:
- Sentry Plylons (1/3 varaiants unavailable currently)
- Gauss Pylon
- Acanthrites
- Tomb Stalkers/Sentinels
- Tesseract Ark
Leave them with forgeworld for now, let gw expand the range rather than recycle.
Other options:
- a revision of the warbarque concept (medium/heavy troop 'transport')
- return of the original Obelisk concept (light Particle Whip platform)
- larger canoptek construct between a Tomb Spyder and Seraptek (robo-carnifex)
- Setekh level Lord construct (Knight equivalent)
- mindshackle scarab zombies
- Harvester (Baneblade size scarab monster/vehicle)
- expand on Royal Court theme with Cryptek covens, lesser attendant Dynasts, Vargards, Nemessors etc.
- the floaty head that everyone remembers from that time Kal Jericho boarded a space hulk with his Inquisitor mother...
- miniature version of the AEonic Orb
- Necron drop pods (thanks Hellforged (not!))
- Lord walker-thing from Mephiston's Super Fun Necron Adventure
And there's the fun stuff I'd love to see them make.
I think to some extent the Necron issue is "rules" - but also a lack of imagination.
Unlike the bigger factions, there doesn't seem to be alternate conceptions of how a Necron force should be put together.
Some people hate this because its canned strategy/limiting - but going with ye olde Eldar, you can see - Ulthwe=Psychic+Guardians, Saim Hann=Jetbikes, Iyanden=Wraithguard etc. The rules don't really work for this, but that was the idea.
The Necron dynasties do not - imo anyway - work on this basis. Ignoring it isn't competitive - but if you wanted to play a silver tide, with loads of basis Necron Warriors, backed up by Ghost Arks, you would think that you should go "Right, I want to be Dynasty A or B, not Dynasty X, Y or Z". By contrast if you wanted to run a vehicle list (with what limited vehicles you have) maybe you would want Dynasty X.
Instead lists end up looking very similar, and playing a fairly similar way, because the pool of good units is small.
Basically so many ideas are not fleshed out to the point where you can "make an army" of out them. Destroyers, Triarch stuff, Canoptek units, flayed ones. All these concepts could be fleshed out into a mini-3/4 unit+character release.
The whinge I would issue isn't "Space Marines, oh GW only cares about Space Marines" - its Ad Mech.
Most of these I've not read of in the fluff but a destroyer with a Tesla gun is reasonable as a suggestion, so are a few more characters. Non-canoptek wraiths are a dead concept sorry, likewise the entire design point of lychguard is they don't have ranged weapons.
As relatively recently as Crossed Swords non-canoptek Wraiths are explicitly described. Note that The World Engine features the canoptek version, so they are clearly co-existing.
Mephiston: Revenant Crusade describes ranged Lychguard. Given that we have seen warscythes with built-in Gauss blasters, I don't see the concept as entirely outlandish.
This is full on lala land stuff now, 1 fortification is fine, just listing every building from DoW isn't helping.
You're aware that this is all pie in the sky lala land dream time?
Besides which, the Imperium and Tau both have multiple fortifications, and the Forge World Tomb Citadel was essentially like five Necron terrain peices bolted together.
Lord Damocles wrote: ...Besides which, the Imperium and Tau both have multiple fortifications, and the Forge World Tomb Citadel was essentially like five Necron terrain peices bolted together.
Lord Damocles wrote: ...Besides which, the Imperium and Tau both have multiple fortifications, and the Forge World Tomb Citadel was essentially like five Necron terrain peices bolted together.
Do you know anyone who bought any of them?
The idea of a 2' square terrain peice is dumb to start with, even without worrying about potential warping. Then add on the fact that since you didn't get given weapons for the turret platforms, you needed to also purchase two Command Barges or Sentry Pylons...
Short of introducing entirely new units with new rules and stat lines, I'm not sure what you could give Necrons, because, well...
...and this is entirely my own opinion...
I think Necrons, as a concept, are cool. However, as contradictory as it sounds... it's an army I'd never buy, because they're also the most aesthetically boring army in the game.
You can only do so much with "Egyptian Robot Skeletons". The only real difference between one guy's Necrons and another guy's Necrons is sometimes nothing more than one or two detail colors, if even that. I can't even tell two Necron named characters apart, except for the spider-leg guy.
I can't say I 100% agree with you, though. I'm not saying they should be forgotten, or that any new additions would be a bad idea... but 'adding to Necrons' should come after:
-Aeldari/Drukhari finecast models produced in plastic
-Updated Ork infantry kits
-New Imperial Guard regiments (or new versions of regiments they stopped producing)
-Renegades and Heretics GW Codex
I'm just saying, in terms of where an army sits... Necrons might be boring, but it's hard to say that it lacks something special that stands out.
Most of these I've not read of in the fluff but a destroyer with a Tesla gun is reasonable as a suggestion, so are a few more characters. Non-canoptek wraiths are a dead concept sorry, likewise the entire design point of lychguard is they don't have ranged weapons.
As relatively recently as Crossed Swords non-canoptek Wraiths are explicitly described. Note that The World Engine features the canoptek version, so they are clearly co-existing.
Mephiston: Revenant Crusade describes ranged Lychguard. Given that we have seen warscythes with built-in Gauss blasters, I don't see the concept as entirely outlandish.
Non canoptek wraiths were also present in the 3rd ed codex, and were the only type of wraith available. I dunno why they changed them into drones. Seeing them return would be great though. Lore wise they were pretty scary; they were basically assassins and surgeons, who would harvest organs by phasing into their victims and extracting it. In one of the white dwarfs it said they were originally serial killers.
I guess if they were to return they would have to be called specters or phantoms. Specter would be kind of weird though because in French wraiths are called spectres.
Adeptus Doritos wrote: it's an army I'd never buy, because they're also the most aesthetically boring army in the game.
You can only do so much with "Egyptian Robot Skeletons". The only real difference between one guy's Necrons and another guy's Necrons is sometimes nothing more than one or two detail colors, if even that. I can't even tell two Necron named characters apart, except for the spider-leg guy.
Is that so different to faceless dudes in power armour though?
Crispy78 wrote: Is that so different to faceless dudes in power armour though?
Opinions may vary, but I'd say that Marines in power armor are still something you can make more variable that 'skeleton robots'. And it's considerably easier to write variations of a semi-human faction in fiction- even if they wear the same suit. One of the advantages of Marines is that there's Mongol Marines, Viking Marines, Dragon Marines, Knight Marines, Pyschic Knight Marines that look more like Knights, Bathrobe Marines, Evil Satan Priest Marines, Evil Murder-Gladiator Marines, Evil Reptile Spy Marines, Pervert Keytaur Marines, and 'basic' versions of them for both alignments.
Aeldari can have a few variations, but not much (at least their plastic kits are compatible, so you can give them some aesthetic differences if nothing else), and Orks can have all kinds of absurdity depending on how serious/silly you want to be. Necrons got kinda screwed by having a pretty specific and limited theme with "Egyptian Robo-skeletons", kinda like Tau with "dumb aliens that aren't important".
And if sales are any indication, I'd say that there's enough variety to keep a lot of customers buying the power-armored boys. Even still, if there's any faction that doesn't get nearly enough releases to reflect their wide array of diverse themes... it's Imperial Guard. Because as it stands now, your only options are "generic soldier", "jungle guys", "Slightly better armor/gun guys that aren't actually guardsmen", or "that Forge World army you can't afford anyway".
Necrons got two new models not to long ago. The cryptek with canoptek cloak and the seraptek heavy construct. Both are pretty useless. The seraptek is overpriced, and unable to move around the battlefield, unless you play with almost no terrain.
p5freak wrote: Necrons got two new models not to long ago. The cryptek with canoptek cloak and the seraptek heavy construct. Both are pretty useless. The seraptek is overpriced, and unable to move around the battlefield, unless you play with almost no terrain.
That construct is deceptively huge on a tabletop. Also, with something that's supposed to be a "knight equivalent" for Necrons, you'd think they'd have given more weapons or loadout variants for it instead of what it comes with.
Crispy78 wrote: Is that so different to faceless dudes in power armour though?
Opinions may vary, but I'd say that Marines in power armor are still something you can make more variable that 'skeleton robots'. And it's considerably easier to write variations of a semi-human faction in fiction- even if they wear the same suit. One of the advantages of Marines is that there's Mongol Marines, Viking Marines, Dragon Marines, Knight Marines, Pyschic Knight Marines that look more like Knights, Bathrobe Marines, Evil Satan Priest Marines, Evil Murder-Gladiator Marines, Evil Reptile Spy Marines, Pervert Keytaur Marines, and 'basic' versions of them for both alignments.
Aeldari can have a few variations, but not much (at least their plastic kits are compatible, so you can give them some aesthetic differences if nothing else), and Orks can have all kinds of absurdity depending on how serious/silly you want to be. Necrons got kinda screwed by having a pretty specific and limited theme with "Egyptian Robo-skeletons", kinda like Tau with "dumb aliens that aren't important".
And if sales are any indication, I'd say that there's enough variety to keep a lot of customers buying the power-armored boys. Even still, if there's any faction that doesn't get nearly enough releases to reflect their wide array of diverse themes... it's Imperial Guard. Because as it stands now, your only options are "generic soldier", "jungle guys", "Slightly better armor/gun guys that aren't actually guardsmen", or "that Forge World army you can't afford anyway".
I do have to disagree with the idea that Necrons are and have to be nothing but egyptian robot-skellingtons. There are already underdeveloped ideas for other things that could be expanded in their lore.
Things like the flayed ones, who in the current lore have a virus that's warping them in to an image of the dead C'tan Flayer, I mean that downright Lovecraftian, a disease that slowly twists its victims become more and more like a dead god.
Or the Destroyer Cults, who alter their bodies(taboo for Necrons) in every which way in a quest to better their nihilistic quest to destroy. Different schools of though could easily exist and the full use of Necron science unrestaint by the codes, morals and the general desire to have something to rule over that restrict saner Necrons opens up the door for modelers to go wild.
Triarch Preatorians on the other hand never went to sleep like the rest, choosing to hide and watch over their kin, wandering the galaxy and teaching chosen younger races bits of Necron culture to prepare the young for eventual subjucation, or at least to keep their culture alive should Necrons be destroyed. Servant races selectivly bred over millions of year for various purpoces easily be written in, to liven up the range, or new tech developed over the long years to meet the demands of changing times and not just old stuff brought back online like that of the awakening Necrons.
There are other factions that need new plastics models more than Necrons at the moment, but to say that Necrons have no room to expand upon is not true either.
p5freak wrote: Necrons got two new models not to long ago. The cryptek with canoptek cloak and the seraptek heavy construct. Both are pretty useless. The seraptek is overpriced, and unable to move around the battlefield, unless you play with almost no terrain.
That construct is deceptively huge on a tabletop. Also, with something that's supposed to be a "knight equivalent" for Necrons, you'd think they'd have given more weapons or loadout variants for it instead of what it comes with.
It is huge, and the "virtual" base rule is ridiculous. It either has a base, or not. Its a melee monster, but cant get into melee because something like a simple container stops it dead in its tracks.
While I understand that the army had a reboot in 2011 and is relatively modern and complete, it's still pretty lame to be looking at a just about a decade with nearly no new model releases.
Would like to have seen the Silent King, Void Dragon avatar, Valgul the Fallen Lord, and so on, and that's what just what I came up with in 30 seconds.
"We don't have any ideas, and the model range is already pretty good" would never fly with space marines. Hell, they started a whole new space marines just so they could crank out slightly different versions of existing space marines.
Morgasm the Powerfull wrote: I do have to disagree with the idea that Necrons are and have to be nothing but egyptian robot-skellingtons. There are already underdeveloped ideas for other things that could be expanded in their lore.
Things like the flayed ones....
Or the Destroyer Cults...
Triarch Preatorians...
Disagree if you like, that's fine. The lore for those things is interesting for sure. However, let's be real...
...those are Egyptian robot skeletons with scissor fingers and skin hanging off, Egyptian robot skeletons with hoverbutts and big gun arms and an angry monocle, and Egyptian robot skeletons with a bubble cage on their backs. When it comes down to the tabletop, no amount of interesting background fluff makes those models more than what the eye can see of them.
And the thing about them being more than Egyptian robo-skeletons? Well, yeah. But the problem is... that's what they were. The concept wasn't as vague as "Superhuman in heavy armor" or "Infantry Soldier from across the Imperium". You can take those vague concepts and add quite a bit of aesthetics to them and make them interesting and varied.
GW went a bit too specific with Necrons for them to be flexible. I mean, without a considerable retcon or reboot of their background (and a whole new line of models), they're stuck being Egyptian Robot Skeletons with glowstick guns, Egyptian Robot Skeletons with bigger shoulders and double glowstick gun or zapper gun, Egyptian Robot Skeleton with shovel stick or smaller shovel stick and serving tray, Egyptian Robot Skeleton wearing people as hats, Egyptian Robot Skeleton with hovercraft butt and big glowstick gun arm, and King Egyptian robot skeleton with baseball and scythe (sometimes on spider legs or hoverbutt). And also Egyptian Robot Bugs.
Could it have been done better? Yeah, it could. I'm not sure if it's too late. I mean, if you could ignore the modern aesthetics... the idea of a mechanized army of living machines inhabited by the ancient sentience of a dead race... well, that could go bonkers. I mean, you don't even have to go with a humanoid aesthetic. It could have been the big cool modular army, full of just these different robots that built themselves all sorts of different ways with ancient alien technology.
The models could have been insane, but when it comes to GW- they get so close to brilliant ideas, and drop the ball. It's like someone inventing the cure for cancer... and then they add ammonia to it, ruin the formula, and market it as toilet cleaner.
Morgasm the Powerfull wrote: I do have to disagree with the idea that Necrons are and have to be nothing but egyptian robot-skellingtons. There are already underdeveloped ideas for other things that could be expanded in their lore.
Things like the flayed ones....
Or the Destroyer Cults...
Triarch Preatorians...
Disagree if you like, that's fine. The lore for those things is interesting for sure. However, let's be real...
...those are Egyptian robot skeletons with scissor fingers and skin hanging off, Egyptian robot skeletons with hoverbutts and big gun arms and an angry monocle, and Egyptian robot skeletons with a bubble cage on their backs. When it comes down to the tabletop, no amount of interesting background fluff makes those models more than what the eye can see of them.
And the thing about them being more than Egyptian robo-skeletons? Well, yeah. But the problem is... that's what they were. The concept wasn't as vague as "Superhuman in heavy armor" or "Infantry Soldier from across the Imperium". You can take those vague concepts and add quite a bit of aesthetics to them and make them interesting and varied.
GW went a bit too specific with Necrons for them to be flexible. I mean, without a considerable retcon or reboot of their background (and a whole new line of models), they're stuck being Egyptian Robot Skeletons with glowstick guns, Egyptian Robot Skeletons with bigger shoulders and double glowstick gun or zapper gun, Egyptian Robot Skeleton with shovel stick or smaller shovel stick and serving tray, Egyptian Robot Skeleton wearing people as hats, Egyptian Robot Skeleton with hovercraft butt and big glowstick gun arm, and King Egyptian robot skeleton with baseball and scythe (sometimes on spider legs or hoverbutt). And also Egyptian Robot Bugs.
Could it have been done better? Yeah, it could. I'm not sure if it's too late. I mean, if you could ignore the modern aesthetics... the idea of a mechanized army of living machines inhabited by the ancient sentience of a dead race... well, that could go bonkers. I mean, you don't even have to go with a humanoid aesthetic. It could have been the big cool modular army, full of just these different robots that built themselves all sorts of different ways with ancient alien technology.
The models could have been insane, but when it comes to GW- they get so close to brilliant ideas, and drop the ball. It's like someone inventing the cure for cancer... and then they add ammonia to it, ruin the formula, and market it as toilet cleaner.
Yeah I know GW most like will never be spending the time or the effort necessary to make Necrons range of themes and models more interesting or expansive. But they could and in my opinion should... or squat them as a tabletop faction if they can't be bothered to do anything with them. Better that than leaving them gathering dust with aging models and boring rules that where clearly written out of oblications rather than inspirations.
Ouze wrote: While I understand that the army had a reboot in 2011 and is relatively modern and complete, it's still pretty lame to be looking at a just about a decade with nearly no new model releases.
Now imagine how it feels to have gone a decade with no new units, even after half the old ones were stripped out of your codex.
Morgasm the Powerfull wrote: Yeah I know GW most like will never be spending the time or the effort necessary to make Necrons range of themes and models more interesting or expansive. But they could and in my opinion should... or squat them as a tabletop faction if they can't be bothered to do anything with them. Better that than leaving them gathering dust with aging models and boring rules that where clearly written out of oblications rather than inspirations.
I don't think they'd squat them. I mean, from their perspective- it's a fairly limited bunch of models that don't require a whole lot of creative effort- every now and then, they'll just add two or three new little rules in a $40.00 book, and these rules will make them 'good' for a while and people will rush to go and buy them again. Rinse and repeat.
I mean, it's kind what they do with Imperial Guard- not only the same outdated models, but Imperial Guard have actually lost 5 of the 8 guardsmen regiment models... and IG will still go through bursts of popularity and competitive validity until they move on to the next thing they can squeeze a few more bucks from, come back and revisit as necessary.
I mean, overall if there's an army that GW doesn't really care about- I'd say it's Renegades & Heretics. The few models they had were Forge World exclusives- most of them were just 'upgrades' that required you to go and buy Imperial Guardsmen (and the upgrades cost as much, if not more than the box of guardsmen)- the rest had to be built from scratch (which sounds fun, but can be quite the lengthy project when it's guardsmen). The closest thing the army has gotten as 'new' were the Traitor Guard that come in Blackstone Fortress- 7 monopose models on the sprue, and that sprue by itself is $40.00. While this sounds like just complaining, let me put it this way: Of all the enemies of the Imperium, the one that is least likely going to be fighting the Imperium at any given time would be Renegades and Heretics- it is quite possibly the most commonly-featured enemy for Imperium protagonists in 40k fiction... and it doesn't even have a real Codex or line of models.
Tyel wrote: I think to some extent the Necron issue is "rules" - but also a lack of imagination.
Unlike the bigger factions, there doesn't seem to be alternate conceptions of how a Necron force should be put together.
Some people hate this because its canned strategy/limiting - but going with ye olde Eldar, you can see - Ulthwe=Psychic+Guardians, Saim Hann=Jetbikes, Iyanden=Wraithguard etc. The rules don't really work for this, but that was the idea.
The Necron dynasties do not - imo anyway - work on this basis. Ignoring it isn't competitive - but if you wanted to play a silver tide, with loads of basis Necron Warriors, backed up by Ghost Arks, you would think that you should go "Right, I want to be Dynasty A or B, not Dynasty X, Y or Z". By contrast if you wanted to run a vehicle list (with what limited vehicles you have) maybe you would want Dynasty X.
Instead lists end up looking very similar, and playing a fairly similar way, because the pool of good units is small.
Basically so many ideas are not fleshed out to the point where you can "make an army" of out them. Destroyers, Triarch stuff, Canoptek units, flayed ones. All these concepts could be fleshed out into a mini-3/4 unit+character release.
The whinge I would issue isn't "Space Marines, oh GW only cares about Space Marines" - its Ad Mech.
Not really sure what you are on about. Nephrekh has a number of units that are supported more and some that are supported less by it, just because it overlaps with Sautekh and Mephrit does not mean it does not exist.
Nephrekh has Scarabs, Wraiths, Destroyers, Immortals, Warriors, Lychguard.
Sautekh has Immortals, Warriors, Tomb Blades, Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers, Ghost Arks, Doomsday Arks, Annihilation Barges, Night Scythes and Doom Scythes. Lychguard and Flayed Ones have some synergy with unique HQs.
Mephrit has Warriors, Immortals, Deathmarks, Ghost Arks, Tomb Blades, Annihilation Barges, Night Scythes, Doom Scythes.
Nihilakh has Doomsday Arks, Wraiths, Lychguard, Sentry Pylons and Lords of War (especially Gauss Pylon).
Novokh has Lychguard, Wraiths, Scarabs, Flayed Ones.
It's not hard to find a netlist, if you have trouble coming up with new lists I can share some with you. As far as balance goes, Necrons are as internally balanced as they have ever been, if you are not attending a tournament you have no reason to not experiment and have fun. I have played every Dynasty extensively throughout 8th and it shapes the way I build my lists, I have also played every unit at least a couple of times and I always choose different dynasties based around what units I want to bring. If you build Silver Tide you're never going to play Nihilakh for example, making it work with Novokh requires Anrakyr the Traveller and Nephrekh silver tide is more silver teleport than silver tide, having two solid options as far as Silver Tide goes is about the minimum you can ask for and I'd argue Mephrit Silver Tide is quite a bit better, so next time you're doing Silver Tide go Mephrit. If you are taking 3 DDAs you don't take them as Novokh or Nephrekh and Mephrit would be a bit of odd choice (although they are still good enough that I think it's better than putting something else in your Mephrit list). Look at Craftworld Eldar on the other hand, your army becomes stronger if you take a less fluffy Craftworld, thank god it isn't fluff that Nihilakh spams Scarabs.
I don't think Necrons need more models, just continue supplying what is currently there. More HQs (including the SIlent King) and HQ updates along with a Titanic or near-Titanic flyer are the only wishes I have. Give us some fluffy Stratagems, Relics and WL traits and I will be happy.
Ouze wrote: While I understand that the army had a reboot in 2011 and is relatively modern and complete, it's still pretty lame to be looking at a just about a decade with nearly no new model releases.
Now imagine how it feels to have gone a decade with no new units, even after half the old ones were stripped out of your codex.
That also shouldn't happen either, though? It's not a race to be Oliver Twist.
GWS should either do a better job supporting their non-astartes factions, or be honest and call it Space Marines The Tabletop Game.
Ouze wrote: While I understand that the army had a reboot in 2011 and is relatively modern and complete, it's still pretty lame to be looking at a just about a decade with nearly no new model releases.
Now imagine how it feels to have gone a decade with no new units, even after half the old ones were stripped out of your codex.
That also shouldn't happen either, though? It's not a race to be Oliver Twist.
GWS should either do a better job supporting their non-astartes factions, or be honest and call it Space Marines The Tabletop Game.
Might as well just do the latter at this point. I'm not convinced they can even recover from the level of Marine-bloat they've introduced into the game.
Something they could do is plan a "do a Necron/Ork/Dark Eldar/foo unit" for every year. With some research, there should be no problem to find out what the players of any given faction find lacking and plan accordingly.
Sadly, they still seem to be stuck on the "model company" mindset in that regard - they only do new models when a designer find the inspiration to do that, and we all know how much inspiration is reserved for armies you don't actually play.
Ouze wrote: While I understand that the army had a reboot in 2011 and is relatively modern and complete, it's still pretty lame to be looking at a just about a decade with nearly no new model releases.
Now imagine how it feels to have gone a decade with no new units, even after half the old ones were stripped out of your codex.
That also shouldn't happen either, though? It's not a race to be Oliver Twist.
GWS should either do a better job supporting their non-astartes factions, or be honest and call it Space Marines The Tabletop Game.
Might as well just do the latter at this point. I'm not convinced they can even recover from the level of Marine-bloat they've introduced into the game.
Jesus, they released some supplements for the marine codex, not put marines into all the xenos codex or annexed them on.
Ouze wrote: While I understand that the army had a reboot in 2011 and is relatively modern and complete, it's still pretty lame to be looking at a just about a decade with nearly no new model releases.
While I agree with the sentiment this is factually incorrect.
Necrons have had a new character model in Forgebane and a new super heavy Forgeworld unit. Its been about a year since the last model release, possibly less.
Apart from several characters still in finecast Necrons actually have a pretty decent range in plastic. I'd rather see other armies get some attention first (looking at you aspect warriors)
Ouze wrote: While I understand that the army had a reboot in 2011 and is relatively modern and complete, it's still pretty lame to be looking at a just about a decade with nearly no new model releases.
While I agree with the sentiment this is factually incorrect.
Necrons have had a new character model in Forgebane and a new super heavy Forgeworld unit. Its been about a year since the last model release, possibly less.
It also looks like the Silent King is on his way.
Yes, that's what i said "nearly". It's only factually inaccurate if you didn't read what I actually said
Even if the line is mostly complete, it's a lot easier for GWS to make single characters than it used to be. People like having stuff to look forward to so even a single limited edition character per year would be awesome.
It's weird GWS doesn't embrace that since in their own stated opinion, the primary point of the hobby is collecting models.
LoftyS wrote: Necrons are one of those factions that are borderline "everyone who would be interested in this, are already playing it"
Yes, because obviously there's never any new players....
GW doesn't market anything other than Space Marines.
But that's besides the point. What I meant is, most players will branch out into second, third, fourth etc. factions. I have 7 and I don't know anyone who play less than 3. So established players make up the majority of future sales. Recruitment to 40K is very slow. People who are playing 40K and haven't already seen Necrons and gone "oh geez, those are the bees knees" are never going to get into Necrons. Because Necrons is that faction that is instant love or hate, alongside sisters and GSC. Hell even Tyranids has the potential to "grow on you". The exception that could fix that, that I can think of, is if they did more with the Wraith/ Triarch Stalker aesthetic and being able to make an army exclusively from that. That would convert me at least, since the rest of their range is pretty boring and pastiche.
They are basically a NPC race for Imperium to beat up.
See 40k has a class system:
Imperium
Chaos
Eldar
All the rest of the xenos factions in some random order of worst to least based on no reasoning at all.
Eldar sometimes jump Chaos, and the only reason they are not with the rest of the xenos is because an iconic veteran of the 40k Design studio supports them, the rest of the xenos don't have significant development support from within GW,
Someone might come in and tell "MARINES SELL" yeah because they have models with really good rules and low points cost. This is a game, if you make one of the xenos factions have new cool models, with really good rules, and they cost way under what they should points wise. They will sell.
They are basically a NPC race for Imperium to beat up.
See 40k has a class system:
Imperium
Chaos
Eldar
All the rest of the xenos factions in some random order of worst to least based on no reasoning at all.
Eldar sometimes jump Chaos, and the only reason they are not with the rest of the xenos is because an iconic veteran of the 40k Design studio supports them, the rest of the xenos don't have significant development support from within GW,
Someone might come in and tell "MARINES SELL" yeah because they have models with really good rules and low points cost. This is a game, if you make one of the xenos factions have new cool models, with really good rules, and they cost way under what they should points wise. They will sell.
What's your excuse for the last 2 years where marines sucked?
They are basically a NPC race for Imperium to beat up.
See 40k has a class system:
Imperium
Chaos
Eldar
All the rest of the xenos factions in some random order of worst to least based on no reasoning at all.
Eldar sometimes jump Chaos, and the only reason they are not with the rest of the xenos is because an iconic veteran of the 40k Design studio supports them, the rest of the xenos don't have significant development support from within GW,
Someone might come in and tell "MARINES SELL" yeah because they have models with really good rules and low points cost. This is a game, if you make one of the xenos factions have new cool models, with really good rules, and they cost way under what they should points wise. They will sell.
What's your excuse for the last 2 years where marines sucked?
wow you totally dived right into that head first.
I said Imperium was the top army- which it has been for 100% of 8th edition- even when Ynnari where insane Imperium was a top tier army, then commented someone would come in here with "marines sell" because people always bring up marines not being top tier for the middle of 8th as we know as being meaningful for some nebulous thing.
The above is about models, GW is slow to do multiple model updates for xenos because they seem to purposefully make them lower in quality than Imperium/Chaos. Less people buy them, ergo less interest in GW making more, and the cycle continues for another edition. Which is why there are not significant necron releases. GW Miniature releases are tied to sales, which are tied to rules.
They are basically a NPC race for Imperium to beat up.
See 40k has a class system:
Imperium
Chaos
Eldar
All the rest of the xenos factions in some random order of worst to least based on no reasoning at all.
Eldar sometimes jump Chaos, and the only reason they are not with the rest of the xenos is because an iconic veteran of the 40k Design studio supports them, the rest of the xenos don't have significant development support from within GW,
Someone might come in and tell "MARINES SELL" yeah because they have models with really good rules and low points cost. This is a game, if you make one of the xenos factions have new cool models, with really good rules, and they cost way under what they should points wise. They will sell.
What's your excuse for the last 2 years where marines sucked?
wow you totally dived right into that head first.
I said Imperium was the top army- which it has been for 100% of 8th edition- even when Ynnari where insane Imperium was a top tier army, then commented someone would come in here with "marines sell" because people always bring up marines not being top tier for the middle of 8th as we know as being meaningful for some nebulous thing.
The above is about models, GW is slow to do multiple model updates for xenos because they seem to purposefully make them lower in quality than Imperium/Chaos. Less people buy them, ergo less interest in GW making more, and the cycle continues for another edition. Which is why there are not significant necron releases. GW Miniature releases are tied to sales, which are tied to rules.
Except the regularly release units with god awful rules, for all factions. There is such a self replicating poor little me attitude now a days, they don't release fewer crons models because they have poor rules, the last time they did a big crons release they instantly jumped to the top of the meta and defined the "decurion" situation whilst selling loads.
If you're suggesting they make the rules worse as sales drop off, or to prevent having to release units, I think you need to take the foil hat off.
Crons haven't had a big release as they don't need one desperately and they likely are struggling to find a niche in the army for new units.
I feel like this goes a lot towards anti marine feelings. It's hard to say marines haven't gotten the golden boy treatment as of late. I honestly feel like eventually they will just change warhammer to Space Marine the game. It's hard to dispute Marines of some flavor being in like every single release but a few at this point and getting a lions share of releases aside from the whole new line for Sisters most currently.
I mean I know I'm quite pleased with my two guard characters over a few years. One of which being a useless forgeworld commissar and one being Marbo. I mean, hold me back boys.
As to why no new models for Necrons ? Easy, they are sleeping, don't wake DaddyCron.
I really can't remember a time when Space Marine releases didn't vastly outnumber any other faction, and I've been in the game since the end of 4th. Sure those marines sometime change colors or grew fur, but the vast majority of releases have always been Space Marines.
Jidmah wrote: I really can't remember a time when Space Marine releases didn't vastly outnumber any other faction, and I've been in the game since the end of 4th. Sure those marines sometime change colors or grew fur, but the vast majority of releases have always been Space Marines.
This, basically, what we see now is not new or different. The proliferation of over hyped tournament focus has left people oddly fixated on it, while simultaneously ignoring the last 20 years of release frequencies.
I've been around since 3rd and I do remember bits of time you didn't see marine releases totally eclipse others by this much. They are literally in just about every supplement and seem to get a new unit every few weeks. I know I'm not crazy in thinking there were stretches of time there weren't marine releases. Even with the amount of sub factions they have.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I've been around since 3rd and I do remember bits of time you didn't see marine releases totally eclipse others by this much. They are literally in just about every supplement and seem to get a new unit every few weeks. I know I'm not crazy in thinking there were stretches of time there weren't marine releases. Even with the amount of sub factions they have.
i member time were ork boyz were brown and had bs 4+.
Marines had allways an upper hand on other factions for releases, however, this recent wave quite frankly is just the snowballing having reached critical mass.
Further GW has gak all common sense, instead of asking WHY a range doesn't sell they just soft squat them via desinverstment cycle, cue SoB, which needed an overwhelming custommer asking to even be delievered.
Quite a lot of smaller factions don't have that support and the small margin that marines had just got consecuetivly larger due to them beeing better supported.
the same can be said about FW which get's ressources aswell which made f.e. R&H probably one of the least selling armies due to them beeing literally 40£ for 30 pts, and instead of realisng that FW more or less got few ressources and had to focus on other stuff, cue bleigh designing IA13 and bam, suddendly the army is on the map again and has customizable rules to boot, making conversions actually pretty common place. Didn't stop gw to gak the bed a second time with 8th though respectively the lack of communication and look now at the threads, more or less consisting out of the 5-6 hold outs and that's it. Rules can very much improve sales.
Then we had the outlier dexes. Dexes for factions that literally were in use for 10 + years. In case of the crons, however, their redesign, i can only assume, failed and didn't bring in enough support i assume. (and to be fair the newcrons are pretty hit and miss and for oldcrons not necessarily a " upgrade" they wanted, due to crons having an extremely specific faction identity.)
This is also why i am nearly sure that we will not see more plastic aspect warriors soonish due to the box not selling. Out of gw's perspective that is the proverbial Blood in the water for the sharks to invest, yet they don't and i can only assume they don't know why many eldar players of all stripes don't want them, because to them that is a market box which probably sell quite well normally that just doesn't get out of shops, ergo they assume mostlikely that DE and CW are not worth the effort.
Marines always had more model love sure, but other factions got some time in the sun without marines being ever present in their spot light. Like ok, the marine book would drop, new models with it, but that would at least be the last marine release for a few month stretch at least and another faction would get a book and new models.
This rapid fire release pace just feels like marines every week, even if it isn't true it's almost true and that leads to marine fatigue and resentment. Which is why I say there was a time it wasn't marines every new releases you actually had to wait awhile for new marine models. That time existed, I know I lived through it. Now however is not that time.
Anyone with half a cup of good sense would have said that box was DOA, most of us called it out here as a piss poor offering and we were not wrong. GW would need a head clearly up own Butt to not see what they did wrong.
I get what they wanted to maybe try and do with Ynnari but not every eldar player plays all the factions at once or is brand new or wants sub par units just starting out, regardless of how " Wow sale " they believe the box to be. So if all they get from that is " Eldar players don't want new stuff " they are royally twisted in how they view the skewed data they put out.
Edit: I can only assume they feel Necrons are at a good place and have no openings that need addressed but really GW take a million years to update or fix any other model line than marines at t his point. How long did it take for them to replace the Dark Eldar awful line ? A long time, Sisters ? Just happened and they needed it for awhile too. They've made and proceed to flesh out new factions at a faster pace than they go back and fix up or add into ranges they consider to be good. Which I guess is where they assume Necrons to be and say Tyranids for instance. Which is where I assume Guard sit at, workable if ancient for some of their kits, most of the Eldar line, and with all the kits Orks got, they probably feel they are very well served but for maybe a character or two, hence the Ghaz model but no updated Ork Boyz.
Anyone with half a cup of good sense would have said that box was DOA, most of us called it out here as a piss poor offering and we were not wrong. GW would need a head clearly up own Butt to not see what they did wrong.
I get what they wanted to maybe try and do with Ynnari but not every eldar player plays all the factions at once or is brand new or wants sub par units just starting out, regardless of how " Wow sale " they believe the box to be. So if all they get from that is " Eldar players don't want new stuff " they are royally twisted in how they view the skewed data they put out.
gw' s half cup of good sense has broken a long time ago.
Trust me, they WILL use it in marketing and use it against allocating the ressources to the spots needed because the Buisness part of the company seriously lacks any hobby perspective.
How else do you assume the desinvestment cycles of the past happened.
Then the customers need to pay them back in kind and cut back on spending to make it hurt for them as that is the only thing they will dig deeper into apparently but I'd like to think they have someone with more than two brain cells to rub together to say " Hey, this plan was bad, we should adjust it next time. "
AngryAngel80 wrote: Then the customers need to pay them back in kind and cut back on spending to make it hurt for them as that is the only thing they will dig deeper into apparently but I'd like to think they have someone with more than two brain cells to rub together to say " Hey, this plan was bad, we should adjust it next time. "
Why do you think AoS happened?
Also the new GW is just old GW but with a social media presence, not even communication with their custommers. just a presence.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Then the customers need to pay them back in kind and cut back on spending to make it hurt for them as that is the only thing they will dig deeper into apparently but I'd like to think they have someone with more than two brain cells to rub together to say " Hey, this plan was bad, we should adjust it next time. "
Hard to do that when GW will just focus more on marines, in the knowledge that people will buy them. That was tried with WHFB anyway and it failed. Voting with your wallet isn't a surefire solution. That only works if the majority is unsatisfied. If you aren't the majority, and play a niche faction that gets infrequent updates, then you are screwed.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Then the customers need to pay them back in kind and cut back on spending to make it hurt for them as that is the only thing they will dig deeper into apparently but I'd like to think they have someone with more than two brain cells to rub together to say " Hey, this plan was bad, we should adjust it next time. "
Hard to do that when GW will just focus more on marines, in the knowledge that people will buy them. That was tried with WHFB anyway and it failed.
Voting with your wallet isn't a surefire solution. That only works if the majority is unsatisfied. If you aren't the majority, and play a niche faction that gets infrequent updates, then you are screwed.
Ding ding ding.
Candidate has gained 100 pts.
Preciscly this, add to that snowballing of marine support and you are now in this Situation here.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I've been around since 3rd and I do remember bits of time you didn't see marine releases totally eclipse others by this much. They are literally in just about every supplement and seem to get a new unit every few weeks. I know I'm not crazy in thinking there were stretches of time there weren't marine releases. Even with the amount of sub factions they have.
The Marine release was necessary, the flagship faction wasn't doing too hot and Guilliman was in every list. Marines got a huge boost, that's unfair for the other Marine factions so they need updates fast. Before that Ynnari need a book to hold their rules so they can be more than just a White Dwarf faction. Once Ynnari have been upgraded to have a hardcover book with their rules GW can move on to updating all the SM factions. They start with the grumbliest and saltiest sort first, the CSM. CSM need an enemy, Black Templars need rules outside White Dwarf. 7 pages of SM get thrown in there, is that really a big deal? Now GW moves on to TS, GK, DA and BA. Tyranids, one of the worst factions in the current meta get updated after the edgeboys, makes perfect sense.
Everything makes perfect sense so far to me. The only mistake I see is how GW went about the whole thing from the start, but yanking another xenos PA book in for the purpose of fanservice when not!Marines need and deserve it more? I'd be furious if I had to be playing Dark Angels for a year while Marines got free buffs. In my opinion, it's the free buffs and spreading Marines across too many books that are the problem. If it was just Specialist Detachments it wouldn't be so bad and GW could take their time getting to the last of the SM factions, but because they decided to slather more rules on the rule cake they now cannot.
I played a game against Grey Knights the other day, despite bringing a really soft list I still crushed him with his new fancy rules and Stratagems and lowered costs, he was new but I am happy that I don't have to walk as much on egg-shells list-building as I would when playing against pre-PA Grey Knights. Necrons won't be fixed by PA anyway, the core that was designed with the index was flawed.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Then the customers need to pay them back in kind and cut back on spending to make it hurt for them as that is the only thing they will dig deeper into apparently but I'd like to think they have someone with more than two brain cells to rub together to say " Hey, this plan was bad, we should adjust it next time. "
Hard to do that when GW will just focus more on marines, in the knowledge that people will buy them. That was tried with WHFB anyway and it failed.
Voting with your wallet isn't a surefire solution. That only works if the majority is unsatisfied. If you aren't the majority, and play a niche faction that gets infrequent updates, then you are screwed.
Ding ding ding.
Candidate has gained 100 pts.
Preciscly this, add to that snowballing of marine support and you are now in this Situation here.
Whilst there is a lot of truth to this regards the minority factions and voting with wallets etc. the snowballing thing is really getting my goat now. They released primaris marines with onset of 8th, beyond a smattering of one off characters they had 1 new kit before their 2.0 codex.
They then were presented with a sleuth of supplement books, which as the name suggests are optional rules extra you purchase to flavour. Marines are getting more printed rules for parity since it's the same faction split into multiple books, not more model releases necessarily than they've had historically.
If you were a white scars player then much like any xenos player you don't care about the rules for the other chapters, you take your 1 supplement and move on. Until the community can realise that just because there are multiple "marine" books, that doesn't mean all those releases are for the same people.
AngryAngel80 wrote: Then the customers need to pay them back in kind and cut back on spending to make it hurt for them as that is the only thing they will dig deeper into apparently but I'd like to think they have someone with more than two brain cells to rub together to say " Hey, this plan was bad, we should adjust it next time. "
Hard to do that when GW will just focus more on marines, in the knowledge that people will buy them. That was tried with WHFB anyway and it failed.
Voting with your wallet isn't a surefire solution. That only works if the majority is unsatisfied. If you aren't the majority, and play a niche faction that gets infrequent updates, then you are screwed.
Ding ding ding.
Candidate has gained 100 pts.
Preciscly this, add to that snowballing of marine support and you are now in this Situation here.
Whilst there is a lot of truth to this regards the minority factions and voting with wallets etc. the snowballing thing is really getting my goat now. They released primaris marines with onset of 8th, beyond a smattering of one off characters they had 1 new kit before their 2.0 codex.
They then were presented with a sleuth of supplement books, which as the name suggests are optional rules extra you purchase to flavour. Marines are getting more printed rules for parity since it's the same faction split into multiple books, not more model releases necessarily than they've had historically.
If you were a white scars player then much like any xenos player you don't care about the rules for the other chapters, you take your 1 supplement and move on. Until the community can realise that just because there are multiple "marine" books, that doesn't mean all those releases are for the same people.
Lol no, most non special marines (e.g. those with limited arsenals and the same holds true with Chaos) that got supplements, share the same arsenal. and Historically, SM allways got more stuff then contemporaries over time.
That IS snowballing, no MATTER how you look at it.
And in this case it turned bad.
(for the record i am talking about the history from 3rd to-8th not just now.)
AngryAngel80 wrote: Then the customers need to pay them back in kind and cut back on spending to make it hurt for them as that is the only thing they will dig deeper into apparently but I'd like to think they have someone with more than two brain cells to rub together to say " Hey, this plan was bad, we should adjust it next time. "
Hard to do that when GW will just focus more on marines, in the knowledge that people will buy them. That was tried with WHFB anyway and it failed.
Voting with your wallet isn't a surefire solution. That only works if the majority is unsatisfied. If you aren't the majority, and play a niche faction that gets infrequent updates, then you are screwed.
Ding ding ding.
Candidate has gained 100 pts.
Preciscly this, add to that snowballing of marine support and you are now in this Situation here.
Whilst there is a lot of truth to this regards the minority factions and voting with wallets etc. the snowballing thing is really getting my goat now. They released primaris marines with onset of 8th, beyond a smattering of one off characters they had 1 new kit before their 2.0 codex.
They then were presented with a sleuth of supplement books, which as the name suggests are optional rules extra you purchase to flavour. Marines are getting more printed rules for parity since it's the same faction split into multiple books, not more model releases necessarily than they've had historically.
If you were a white scars player then much like any xenos player you don't care about the rules for the other chapters, you take your 1 supplement and move on. Until the community can realise that just because there are multiple "marine" books, that doesn't mean all those releases are for the same people.
Lol no, most non special marines (e.g. those with limited arsenals and the same holds true with Chaos) that got supplements, share the same arsenal. and Historically, SM allways got more stuff then contemporaries over time.
That IS snowballing, no MATTER how you look at it.
And in this case it turned bad.
(for the record i am talking about the history from 3rd to-8th not just now.)
You'll recall that blood angels, dark angels, space wolves and black templars were once upon a time supplements originally then? We've gone from having "blood angels tactical squad" and "grey hunters" being released with each book to just having core units with small conversion sprues. They use far less releases for marines than they ever did previously.
You're talking purely about updated rules which are unavoidable to keep parity between factions, which is the issue if anything is.
Snowballing is stacking things endlessly, please tell me how ritual of the damned & captain lazarus coming out helps a raven guard player.
No, i mean snowballing in the cycle of releases, pay attention:
Marines had allways an upper hand on other factions for releases, however, this recent wave quite frankly is just the snowballing having reached critical mass.
For some editions many an army didn't even get a Codex. Marines allways were guaranteed one, just as Marines allways were guaranteed a model release mmore or less.
This is the snowbaling i am speaking off, it was and is the most supported faction of GW by a longshot.
Supplement marines ARE NOT a seperate faction, they DON'T have arsenal differences, yet (BT were at one point a seperate codex with differences)
my point is, the support rendered to marines foremost, over time escalted. Marines SHARE their models, thereefore MARINES SELL for the marketing, ergo the MARKETING PUSHES mariness above other factions.
Whole subfactions got supplements f.e yet all Chaos legions got cramed in one book (non special ones excluded because that is nonsense anyways regardless.)
Not Online!!! wrote: No, i mean snowballing in the cycle of releases, pay attention:
Marines had allways an upper hand on other factions for releases, however, this recent wave quite frankly is just the snowballing having reached critical mass.
For some editions many an army didn't even get a Codex. Marines allways were guaranteed one, just as Marines allways were guaranteed a model release mmore or less.
This is the snowbaling i am speaking off, it was and is the most supported faction of GW by a longshot.
Supplement marines ARE NOT a seperate faction, they DON'T have arsenal differences, yet (BT were at one point a seperate codex with differences)
my point is, the support rendered to marines foremost, over time escalted. Marines SHARE their models, thereefore MARINES SELL for the marketing, ergo the MARKETING PUSHES mariness above other factions.
Whole subfactions got supplements f.e yet all Chaos legions got cramed in one book (non special ones excluded because that is nonsense anyways regardless.)
I am paying attention, release can mean literally anything without context, but you're all over the place. I know what you're trying to say but you admit supplements aren't a different faction, they're nestled inside of that "codex marines" umbrella, they're options for codex space marines, but those have stopped and are done. They had 1 stretched out marine release wave in 2019, this is the fastest turn around for a space marine codex but they're evidently trying to refresh/expand the range with primaris.
If they do the same thing again this year, without binning off squatty marines, then you might have a point. But at present they're simply filling out a new range and this "constant marine release" issue people have is because they're not differentiating them by seperate armies or just realising it was a single 3 month long release window.
No you aren't paying attention, again but you probably just don't want to pay attention, fun fact there's a reason why the marine dex has more unit entries than any other.
Not really on topic but to the supplement chat I say; "where's my evil sunz supplement book?" Where are the Craftworld Ulthwe, Hivefleet Leviathan, Wych Cult supplement books too?
Or are only Marines special enough to get supplement rules for their sub factions?
An Actual Englishman wrote: Not really on topic but to the supplement chat I say; "where's my evil sunz supplement book?" Where are the Craftworld Ulthwe, Hivefleet Leviathan, Wych Cult supplement books too?
Or are only Marines special enough to get supplement rules for their sub factions?
Tbh I'd rather nobody did, but we've hashed that out before, but at least you've a grounded argument.
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Not Online!!! wrote: No you aren't paying attention, again but you probably just don't want to pay attention, fun fact there's a reason why the marine dex has more unit entries than any other.
Because they've added too many redundant options and not been able to prune them out because of people resisting change, combined with shoe-horning 30k units in?
I think a lot of Marine (and other Faction) units could share a single datasheet, with the minor differences between them represented by wargear options. As an Ork player, the first example that comes to mind from my own Codex is Boyz/Stormboyz. The "jump packs" could have just been a wargear option.
where is my new novhok mephrit etc release.as if one group of a thousand marines need their own bloody book. absolute nonsense. Space marine bloat is disgusting and going to eventually kill the hobby that's when it will all come crashing down and gw will cease to exist. Necrons are just as worthy as frigging white scars to get sub faction supplements but they don't because gw hate them.the eldar are likely to be squatted next year.i reckon all xenos will be gone in three years and we are going to have hours heresy two.marine vs marine forever.
Icegoat wrote: where is my new novhok mephrit etc release.as if one group of a thousand marines need their own bloody book. absolute nonsense. Space marine bloat is disgusting and going to eventually kill the hobby that's when it will all come crashing down and gw will cease to exist. Necrons are just as worthy as frigging white scars to get sub faction supplements but they don't because gw hate them.the eldar are likely to be squatted next year.i reckon all xenos will be gone in three years and we are going to have hours heresy two.marine vs marine forever.
The problem with marines is the subfactions. Because GW has put more and more into them and made them armies on their own, not just a few rules addendums and a different paint scheme; it means that what was once one army is now closer to 5 or 6 or however many armies. They might all share the same design ethos and also share the same core army models; but they've all got their own market. A Blood Angles player might only play Blood Angels. So any marine releases that are generic or specifically BA are not releases for them.
So Xenos can appear undersupported only because marines have about as many forces of their own as there are Xenos armies.
It's a bit of a trap GW is in because they clearly want Xenos armies and customers clearly want them; however Marines just sell so well and KEEP selling so well that GW can't ignore what is basically their biggest model purchasing market.
