Looks to me like Ye Olde Psychic Awakening all over again. I don't play AoS, but I hope I'm wrong, because if I'm not? You've got a year or so of "mandatory" new rules that will be written with what I'm sure will turn out to be next year's new edition, supposedly "in mind"...
On the plus side the first book has 5 factions and I do hope that if this turns out to be "PA, but for AoS" that they keep the books packed with factions.
Likely to be followed with a new edition. I wonder if GW's plan might be to alternate years for a new edition - 40K one year, AoS the next. Intereving year gets a campaign expansion...
Eldarsif wrote: On the plus side the first book has 5 factions and I do hope that if this turns out to be "PA, but for AoS" that they keep the books packed with factions.
Not only does the first book have 5 factions...it actually features subfactions as a focus!
Anvils of the Heldenhammer are an interesting Stormhost. There's been a little love their way, but not a whole heck of a lot.
Anvilgard is similarly an interesting city, primarily Aelf-ran but with a bit of everyone in there. This is the first time we're seeing 'minor' cities as well, with a focus on Darkling Covens.
Stormonu wrote: I wonder if GW's plan might be to alternate years for a new edition - 40K one year, AoS the next. Intereving year gets a campaign expansion...
Obviously too few years have passed to know for absolute certain, but it does seem like each new ruleset will have a three year shelf life. AoS 3.0 in 2021 would more or less confirm the pattern.
We have been discussing it a little in the AOS thread. The first book and the battlebox were announced back in August.
The website also shows the previously advertised 38 model battlebox coming for Daughters of Khaine.
The following tabs also seem to confirm there are 4 more boxes covering the other factions in the book, along with the contents (Cities of Sigmar and Stormcast have quite a large model count with Idoneth Deepkin and Slaves to Darkness have sets of 3 mounted models).
Stormonu wrote: I wonder if GW's plan might be to alternate years for a new edition - 40K one year, AoS the next. Intereving year gets a campaign expansion...
Obviously too few years have passed to know for absolute certain, but it does seem like each new ruleset will have a three year shelf life. AoS 3.0 in 2021 would more or less confirm the pattern.
It does seem to be the cadence they are aiming for. The only thing we can say for certain, though, is that each new edition is preceded by a campaign book series.
Looks like DoK will finally have a non-Morathi standalone hero out side of the cauldron. The picture is kinds of small, but the Slannesh hero looks like it might be mortal?
bsharitt wrote: Looks like DoK will finally have a non-Morathi standalone hero out side of the cauldron. The picture is kinds of small, but the Slannesh hero looks like it might be mortal?
You can see full size images in the preview event (they are the bottom of the page) -
Stormonu wrote: Likely to be followed with a new edition. I wonder if GW's plan might be to alternate years for a new edition - 40K one year, AoS the next. Intereving year gets a campaign expansion...
We just had AOS 2nd edition two years ago, I can't imagine we are due for a new edition yet. But who knows. I'm always keen to see the lore expanded.
Aeneades wrote: We have been discussing it a little in the AOS thread. The first book and the battlebox were announced back in August.
The website also shows the previously advertised 38 model battlebox coming for Daughters of Khaine.
The following tabs also seem to confirm there are 4 more boxes covering the other factions in the book, along with the contents (Cities of Sigmar and Stormcast have quite a large model count with Idoneth Deepkin and Slaves to Darkness have sets of 3 mounted models).
So that we're clear...
Spoiler:
This is a box of Judicators(10 models), a box of Gryph-Hounds(6), a Lord-Veritant(2 since it also includes a Gryph-Hound), and the Easy Build Castigators set(3 Castigators and a Gryph-Hound). Gryph-Hounds are the doorprize of Stormcast at this point, jammed into every discount box they do...and never actually given rules to work best with the Vanguard they're supposed to be in tune with. Shame they didn't do it as a good Vanguard set and bring out some updated warscrolls for the Knight-Zephyros to get a Gryph-Hound with them though.
Spoiler:
Black Dragon Sorceress and 2x boxes of Dark Elf Warriors.
Spoiler:
3x Chariots is nothing to sneeze at, sizewise. Can't comment on how effective it is.
Spoiler:
This one is less than impressive, unless the updated rules for the Allopex are something huge. Mount traits for the Deepmare will be cool, the Leviadon is a headscratcher and the Eidolons...I have zero ideas what they're doing there. I have a sinking(no pun intended) feeling that it's going to just be tacking 'Unique' and 'Monster' onto them.
Although I will add that I really like this art: Gryph-Hounds lend themselves so well to such interesting color schemes.
Stormonu wrote: Likely to be followed with a new edition. I wonder if GW's plan might be to alternate years for a new edition - 40K one year, AoS the next. Intereving year gets a campaign expansion...
We just had AOS 2nd edition two years ago, I can't imagine we are due for a new edition yet. But who knows. I'm always keen to see the lore expanded.
Pace same as 1st to 2nd ed and 40k 8 to 9. Believe it.
On flipside new starter with lots of new models for 2 factions. Will they double on chaos or death opposing stormcast or is it time for destruction? (jackpot for me would be ogors but ironjaws more likely)
The newsletter short story certainly has me thinking that something big is in the works for destructions narrative. If there is a new edition on the horizon it would be nice for them to step away from Stormcast for the starter set. Orks vs Kurnothi would be on my personal wish list for included factions.
We'll see about the story, but the rules seem to be more interesting than the PA was?
I am glad they used this as an opportunity to fix the obvious stinkers in the IDK line, I hope they do these fantastic models justice this time.
GoatboyBeta wrote: The newsletter short story certainly has me thinking that something big is in the works for destructions narrative. If there is a new edition on the horizon it would be nice for them to step away from Stormcast for the starter set. Orks vs Kurnothi would be on my personal wish list for included factions.
Non-stormcast would be nice(though having just started sc wouldn'" mind) but alas odds are bad. Would myself love tyrion half of lumineth vs ogors though could live with ironjaw" as well.
Or maybe malerioth(?) Eltes are anti-order and are against stormcast
GoatboyBeta wrote: The newsletter short story certainly has me thinking that something big is in the works for destructions narrative. If there is a new edition on the horizon it would be nice for them to step away from Stormcast for the starter set. Orks vs Kurnothi would be on my personal wish list for included factions.
I'd love the Kurnothi to show up [although not with Lumineth prices!] ,Kurnoth returning fits a bit with the shake up of realms/gods/powers, but I'll not hold my breath.
Looks interesting though..
ingtaer wrote: Looking forward to seeing what they have in store for the IDK, that box is an interesting choice though.
There was a rumor going around that Eidolons were going to get their own lore and both would be Wizards, but that remains to be seen.
Biggest hope is that the darn harpoons for the Allopex and Leviadon actually see some real oomph and that the Aspect of the Storm gets some range added.
lord_blackfang wrote: It's AoS End Times, it even follows the same naming convention for the book. Goodbye realms, hellow Old World.
I must confess, that was my first thought too.
In Broken Realms: Kroak the Mortal Realms will be destroyed by the Old ones. Kroak, revived, follows them on an unnamed planet, where they setlle. The souls of many beings will be reincarnated - somewhere, someday - but without any memory of the past.
And after two editions of WHFB, the cycle begins anew.
Or there's a WH40k Crusade Mission Pack: Mortal Realms as a worthy end of the Age of Sigmar saga.
Fixing harpoons would be great, I would hope for a new unit or two but as the box has been shown I guess that is right out.
Not sure how I would feel about Eidolons both becoming wizards but something has to change with them in my view as they just dont seem a very attractive option (bar the cool looking models).
I think the most exciting part about the new Broken Realms books is the fact that AoS seems to be more open to meaningful lore changes and story progressions since the setting isn't held to the same baggage as 40.000. It's one of the points that draws me to AoS: I can see the story I am engage in evolve and progress, hopefully without it keeping the eternal status quo.
ingtaer wrote: Looking forward to seeing what they have in store for the IDK, that box is an interesting choice though.
One thing, they haven't said they would release boxsets for these factions. For all we know the picture just shows the batelion contents(or at least the minimum required)
ingtaer wrote: Looking forward to seeing what they have in store for the IDK, that box is an interesting choice though.
One thing, they haven't said they would release boxsets for these factions. For all we know the picture just shows the batelion contents(or at least the minimum required)
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Either way it will lead to a battalion though wont it? As I have three sharks and two Kings I can get behind that idea.
ingtaer wrote: Looking forward to seeing what they have in store for the IDK, that box is an interesting choice though.
One thing, they haven't said they would release boxsets for these factions. For all we know the picture just shows the batelion contents(or at least the minimum required)
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Either way it will lead to a battalion though wont it? As I have three sharks and two Kings I can get behind that idea.
ingtaer wrote: Looking forward to seeing what they have in store for the IDK, that box is an interesting choice though.
One thing, they haven't said they would release boxsets for these factions. For all we know the picture just shows the batelion contents(or at least the minimum required)
Ah, thanks for the clarification. Either way it will lead to a battalion though wont it? As I have three sharks and two Kings I can get behind that idea.
yeah, it sounds like it
The wording next to each image says "Combine this set with the rules from..." so would seem to imply but not quite confirm that they are coming out as boxsets.
Eldarsif wrote: I think the most exciting part about the new Broken Realms books is the fact that AoS seems to be more open to meaningful lore changes and story progressions since the setting isn't held to the same baggage as 40.000. It's one of the points that draws me to AoS: I can see the story I am engage in evolve and progress, hopefully without it keeping the eternal status quo.
It hasnt been around long enough to be drowned in it’s own fluff yet. It will get to a point where nothing major will change. After all 40K has changed greatly over the years.
tneva82 wrote: If things change units and armies gets invalidated. If not it's saturday cartoon village.
I think armies won't be invalidated, but some warscrolls will clearly be. Pretty sure the new ones for Morathi will replace the previous one - and will represent her new status or whatsoever after the events of the book.
Pretty obvious the heavy focus on mirrors in the video is part of the scheme leading to these two warscrolls. Either she'll use her reflection to invoke her two aspects at the same time, or she'll manage somehow to separate her monstruous form that she dislikes so much and make it a distinct entity.
The difference between AoS and 40k is that there is much more space to change things, since it's still not that detailed even now. Even so, I believe the changes will mainly focus on the "main" characters and see how they evolve. If Morathi is finally a goddess, that's quite the big change for her faction.
Nah that’s just one book, by the fifth or so we will be somewhere completely different then Tyrion will pop up randomly.
They won’t have it tie in so nicely surely
In AoS they do not necessarily invalidate armies, but they might change them by combining existing factions. They have done that with several factions and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd continue that tradition with some of the older armies like FEC and Nighthaunt. The difference between AoS and 40k is that in AoS you don't have many factions that have an overbearing amount of unit entries. This means that in the future I wouldn't be surprised if Nighthaunt would be combined with Legion of Nagash and Soulblight joins with Flesh-Eater Courts to make a more combined and meatier tomes.
I am at least more optimistic about actual changes in the AoS fluff compared to 40k.
AoS has had a very abnormal life as a wargame, partly because it began not as a wargame and got torn up by management choices in isolation from the customerbase.
As a result we saw really odd choices at the start - armies retired, armies shattered; armies randomly put together and a whole host of odditites. Mostly this is because AoS at launch wasn't a wargame, by that time it had warped into a boutique model line that happened to have some rules and a history of being a wargame; but its primary focus was just to be cool models to sell, build and paint.
I fully suspect that many of the fragmented army ideas were so that GW could "create" a new army with a halfdozen releases of models; but also retire armies just as fast. With the idea being that with no formal rules or armies and with the four grand alliances, players would collect a "grand alliance". If you "lost your army" in terms of models removed you'd just use the rules as printed and keep going since you were collecting it as part of a GA. Plus because it had no rules it didn't matter.
Thankfully saner heads prevailed and AoS changed. However it wasn't really until 2.0 that things have settled. I would not expect from now to see the same kind of changes repeated. I would expect armies as they are now to remain for the medium if not long term. I'm not expecting to see armies retired/combined/fragmented etc... It would not serve in GW's interests to start destabilising the game community and fanbase like that.
The only army that MIGHT shift and change in a bigger way is Cities of Sigmar. I could see that faction fragmenting or perhaps doing what Legions of Nagash has done in that it remains, but parts of it get teased out into their own army with their own identity and a larger roster of models unique to that army.
Otherwise the fluff changes will be just that, fluff changes. Morathi becoming a God won't remove her force; merge it; shatter it or anything.
Otherwise the fluff changes will be just that, fluff changes. Morathi becoming a God won't remove her force; merge it; shatter it or anything.
Well it will change the way she works as a unit in the game, that's already something big.
And if she becomes a goddess, she clearly won't need to work in the shadows of a dead god anymore. It won't be the Daughters of Khaine anymore, but the Daughters of Morathi. That can lead to quite big changes to the faction rulewise...even if the miniatures stay the same. Maybe even a schism between the new believers and the old ones refusing to leave Khaine ?
Otherwise the fluff changes will be just that, fluff changes. Morathi becoming a God won't remove her force; merge it; shatter it or anything.
Well it will change the way she works as a unit in the game, that's already something big.
And if she becomes a goddess, she clearly won't need to work in the shadows of a dead god anymore. It won't be the Daughters of Khaine anymore, but the Daughters of Morathi. That can lead to quite big changes to the faction rulewise...even if the miniatures stay the same.
It's unlikely she can just declare herself a God like that. Her people aren't just believers, they are a fanatical religious army. You don't just get to kick their god out from under them and tell them to change gods. If she did declare herself a god and take down Khaine chances are her faction would fragment very fast. She already has to turn Queens to Bloodwracks to maintain order and prevent them spotting that Khaine isn't around or trying to take too much power for themselves. Plus she siphons the belief in Khaine to gain power, if her people don't believe in her then she's still got to do that otherwise she doesn't get the power. Only then she's also got to fight her own religious armies as they try to retake the Heart of Khaine from a corrupted Oracle. One thing we have seen several times in AoS is that the gods are powerful, but they are not all-powerful. They can be struck down and weakened and even killed.
It's far more likely that if she ascends to god-hood it would change her relationship with the other gods and aelf gods; but wouldn't change the structure of her religious cult army. Or if it did she'd introduce it not as her replacing Khaine, but becoming the consort of Khaine or such. Basically for her its easier to maintain the lie than it is to cast it down.
Morathi appearing in both forms appears to be some form of illusion/shadow magic that she's tapped into to project herself in two places at once on the battlefield. It might also hint that she's been experimenting trying to create others of the same physical form like herself - not just half-way creations. Or its her vanity trying to tear out the Slaanesh infection from herself.
Of course lets not get ahead of ourselves; her plan could well fail. It's not as if Nagash's Black Pyramid worked.
It would be interesting if the way her plan backfired was by breaking the final chain holding Slaanesh prisoner, something which even sounds wonderfully Tzeentchian in terms of the irony.
Only rumor I've heard so far from some sources linked to GW is that Morathi does get her godhood in the new book, but I take it with some salt.
Regarding fluff/game changes and how static the game might be now I do think there is room for a lot of development. Cities of Sigmar is perhaps the only faction that can be properly fragmented, but in return there are a few factions that can be joined and with the Grand Alliance system I can well imagine that some factions might move between Grand Alliances.
Thing is GW encourages you to take armies with allies - heck many Order factions have theme battalions with Stormcast Allies. If they left Order that would leave disgruntled customers.
Plus lore wise you don't have to move between Grand Alliances to ally; we have orruks and trolls and goblins living in Free Cities. Death is full of cities where humans and the undead live side by side or at least tolerate each other.
Eldarsif wrote: Only rumor I've heard so far from some sources linked to GW is that Morathi does get her godhood in the new book, but I take it with some salt.
Regarding fluff/game changes and how static the game might be now I do think there is room for a lot of development. Cities of Sigmar is perhaps the only faction that can be properly fragmented, but in return there are a few factions that can be joined and with the Grand Alliance system I can well imagine that some factions might move between Grand Alliances.
Realisitically...why would she be getting a new warscroll if she didn't? It's not like current morathi is some huge design issue GW needs to correct. In fact, they've been adding Morathi's mechanic to TONS of things in 40k they liked it so much.
Morathi is absolutely going to achieve godhood, the question is what kind of consequences do the DoK and Order by extension face as a result?
Overread wrote: Thing is GW encourages you to take armies with allies - heck many Order factions have theme battalions with Stormcast Allies. If they left Order that would leave disgruntled customers.
Plus lore wise you don't have to move between Grand Alliances to ally; we have orruks and trolls and goblins living in Free Cities. Death is full of cities where humans and the undead live side by side or at least tolerate each other.
Depends on how much allies are used by customers. Even then I'd say that even if they were to switch Grand Alliances they could still retain much of the Alliances. If Idoneth were to move to Death or something there isn't really anything stopping Sylvaneth working with them except in cases of some major war. Would really only affect people who are playing Grand Alliances as factions and I doubt there are many of them.
Allying also just tends to be much more restrictive in AoS that I wonder how many people actually use them considering the fact that allies lose their faction traits. I've only thought about allying Sylvaneth with my Idoneth to fill in the Hero gap that Idoneth has and much of the allying I see in tourneys is a single hero from another faction that has some game vital ability.
Either way I am excited to see what the future of AoS holds.
Eumerin wrote: If Morathi kicks this thing off, then hopefully her long-absent (from gameplay) son is set to finally make his appearence with his faction.
Although I'd like to see what they do with them, I wouldn't mind seeing some more.. non-Elves. There are still (some) remnants around from the High Elves, Dark Elves and Wood Elves, we've had more of Morathi's snake-elves, new Idoneth fish-elves, some Kurnothi in Underworlds and now new Lumineth light-elves. I'd prefer to see some humans (vaguely normal humans if such a thing is possible). Maybe new undead - though we have quite some variants of those already. Or a completely new race. But maybe not yet more Elves. And I say that as someone who quite likes Elves...
Eumerin wrote: If Morathi kicks this thing off, then hopefully her long-absent (from gameplay) son is set to finally make his appearence with his faction.
Although I'd like to see what they do with them, I wouldn't mind seeing some more.. non-Elves. There are still (some) remnants around from the High Elves, Dark Elves and Wood Elves, we've had more of Morathi's snake-elves, new Idoneth fish-elves, some Kurnothi in Underworlds and now new Lumineth light-elves. I'd prefer to see some humans (vaguely normal humans if such a thing is possible). Maybe new undead - though we have quite some variants of those already. Or a completely new race. But maybe not yet more Elves. And I say that as someone who quite likes Elves...
I don't think you're going to get a completely new race at this point, unless they do something like bring back the fimir or zoats. The problem right now is that Malekith/Malerion's elves are the only major group that's still completely missing (short of reintroducing either the Tomb Kings or "Neo-Bretonnians", which isn't going to happen anytime soon). We got a couple of early hints about his elves with the Quest models. But there's been nothing since, and they've become a bit conspicuous in their absence. Plus, Malekith has a long and complicated history with Morathi, and one would expect at least a token appearance on his part if his mother is pulling a particularly ambitious scheme. Since she's no longer backing him, I would expect that appearance to involve a carefully placed spanner in Morathi's scheme (much like what the Skaven used to inevitably do to Nagash in the Old World).
However, if the third edition is incoming next summer as many suspect, then chances are that any sort of roll-out of Malerion's elves is still at least a year away.
I think the problem with the Aelves - and I say this as an aelf aficionado - is that they all got lumped into the Grand Alliance Order which makes Grand Alliance Order closer to being Grand Alliance Aelf than anything else. If anything they should have divided the aelves between the Grand Alliances to make things a bit more balanced and give players more options.
If I were to do some rearranging I'd think the following would be nice:
- Order: Lumineth Realmlords
- Chaos: Morathi. She becomes "new" Slaanesh.
- Destruction: Sylvaneth.
- Death: Idoneth Deepkin since they are all about soul harvesting and could easily be paying tithes to Nagash.
I still find it odd when people say Morathi should become the new Slaanesh - because all the lore for DoK is fevered hate of chaos and Slaanesh in particular.
I could see Sylvaneth entering Destruction, but then I'd rather Destruction be renamed into "The Wilds" or somesuch representing more wild forces of the world rather than just purely destructive/raiding forces. Which Sylvaneth don't really fit into the latter part.
Idoneth in Death I think would work if Death was more than "factions who are ruled by Nagash".
Honestly I've no problem with Aelves being dominant in Order. If anything its a welcome change to see a fantasy race in a fantasy game be superior to humans. In most other fantasy settings we'd likely just have a dozen different human factions and then everything else. I think having imbalance and having more aelf than human is perfectly fine. If anything it highlights how fantastical and fantasy the setting is. Plus its refreshing to have a major fantasy line where elves and such are not ancient races steadily heading into extinction whilst being very haughty about it all.
It's unlikely she can just declare herself a God like that. Her people aren't just believers, they are a fanatical religious army. You don't just get to kick their god out from under them and tell them to change gods. If she did declare herself a god and take down Khaine chances are her faction would fragment very fast. She already has to turn Queens to Bloodwracks to maintain order and prevent them spotting that Khaine isn't around or trying to take too much power for themselves. Plus she siphons the belief in Khaine to gain power, if her people don't believe in her then she's still got to do that otherwise she doesn't get the power. Only then she's also got to fight her own religious armies as they try to retake the Heart of Khaine from a corrupted Oracle. One thing we have seen several times in AoS is that the gods are powerful, but they are not all-powerful. They can be struck down and weakened and even killed.
It's far more likely that if she ascends to god-hood it would change her relationship with the other gods and aelf gods; but wouldn't change the structure of her religious cult army. Or if it did she'd introduce it not as her replacing Khaine, but becoming the consort of Khaine or such. Basically for her its easier to maintain the lie than it is to cast it down.
Well you forget there are factions inside of the Daughters of Khaine who are fully committed to Morathi, especially her creations with the souls stolen from Slaanesh.
I think Morathi's pride will drive her to show herself in her full glory if she becomes a goddess - maybe even saying that she's the new Khaine ressurected now. She longed for too long for that power to stay hidden in the shadows if she finally gets a grip on it.
The faction could work the same with her being a goddess, for sure - she'll just directly answer the prayers of her followers, even if she still lies to them about the true fate of Khaine.
Yes there would certainly be a schism, but the power she'll gain from it will be enough to wipe the traitors and build a full faction devoted to her. After all, she will be a goddess, not a scheming high priestess lieing about the fate of their dead god.
Morathi appearing in both forms appears to be some form of illusion/shadow magic that she's tapped into to project herself in two places at once on the battlefield. It might also hint that she's been experimenting trying to create others of the same physical form like herself - not just half-way creations. Or its her vanity trying to tear out the Slaanesh infection from herself.
I don't know, the video is more focused on her reflection in the mirror, not her actually using magic to be a two points on the battlefield.
And we know Morathi is ashamed of her true form reminding her of her time spent in Slaanesh's stomach, that she takes when she's unable to control her emotions. I think they will play more on that.
Of course lets not get ahead of ourselves; her plan could well fail. It's not as if Nagash's Black Pyramid worked.
It worked at least partially - and it was enough to drown the realms with this wild death magic disrupting how magic works.
That was a pretty big change at the time, even if Nagash didn't manage to rule all the realms.
Here, Morathi's goal is to become a goddess. It's not to rule all the realms. She'll certainly have that ambition later once she's one, but so far, the story can be built with her succeeding being a goddess. It would certainly shift the balance of power between the gods.
But you're right ! Better to see what GW has the guts to do or if it will be another PA / Wrath of the Everchosen disappointment.
Eldarsif wrote:I think the problem with the Aelves - and I say this as an aelf aficionado - is that they all got lumped into the Grand Alliance Order which makes Grand Alliance Order closer to being Grand Alliance Aelf than anything else. If anything they should have divided the aelves between the Grand Alliances to make things a bit more balanced and give players more options.
If I were to do some rearranging I'd think the following would be nice:
- Order: Lumineth Realmlords
- Chaos: Morathi. She becomes "new" Slaanesh.
- Destruction: Sylvaneth.
- Death: Idoneth Deepkin since they are all about soul harvesting and could easily be paying tithes to Nagash.
I quite like the sound of that!
Overread wrote:I could see Sylvaneth entering Destruction, but then I'd rather Destruction be renamed into "The Wilds" or somesuch representing more wild forces of the world rather than just purely destructive/raiding forces. Which Sylvaneth don't really fit into the latter part.
Wild Hunt-style evens are pretty blindly destructive. And now I'm just dreaming of more of the lovely Wood Elf range being retained and kept as their own faction instead of lumped into Cities of Sigmar, and subsequently mostly dropped...
Honestly I've no problem with Aelves being dominant in Order. If anything its a welcome change to see a fantasy race in a fantasy game be superior to humans. In most other fantasy settings we'd likely just have a dozen different human factions and then everything else. I think having imbalance and having more aelf than human is perfectly fine. If anything it highlights how fantastical and fantasy the setting is. Plus its refreshing to have a major fantasy line where elves and such are not ancient races steadily heading into extinction whilst being very haughty about it all.
I don't mind seeing more Elven factions than Human ones, but I'd rather see at least 1 actual Human faction instead of yet another new Elven one. Cities of Sigmar in my eyes won't be an AoS faction until they get any new sculpts, something to give them direction and cohesive visuals, something that makes them more than just remnanants of the Empire (and other races). German Landsknechte just don't fit AoS, for all the reasons you outlined above. Although I feel the Lumineth are hardly that innovative; perhaps they're recovering now, but they very much play the traditional "remnants of an ancient empire" thing, now combined with a history of excess their space cousins patented years ago.
Eldarsif wrote: I think the most exciting part about the new Broken Realms books is the fact that AoS seems to be more open to meaningful lore changes and story progressions since the setting isn't held to the same baggage as 40.000. It's one of the points that draws me to AoS: I can see the story I am engage in evolve and progress, hopefully without it keeping the eternal status quo.
Sure, it's been the most exciting part of AOS since it launched. We've had a massive amount of campaign books and story advancement, to the point when someone's like "AOS has no story" I believe they're willfully ignorant or just a poe.
The Sigmarines are supposed to be a (more or less) human faction. But yes, I agree that the game could probably use an updated "baseline" human faction. And after giving it some thought, I think a lot could also be done with the Neo-Brettonian idea that I largely made in jest. A human heavy cavalry faction with "evolved" barding, and possibly even mounts, could look pretty spectacular.
One other item - while I'm not averse to spreading the aelves out across the Grand Orders, I think keeping them out of Chaos is appropriate. Also, the list leaves out the aelf faction that started this entire digression.
Eumerin wrote: The Sigmarines are supposed to be a (more or less) human faction. But yes, I agree that the game could probably use an updated "baseline" human faction. And after giving it some thought, I think a lot could also be done with the Neo-Brettonian idea that I largely made in jest. A human heavy cavalry faction with "evolved" barding, and possibly even mounts, could look pretty spectacular.
Having seen GW's mounts as of late I'd REALLY love them to give us such an army. A more classic fantasy army that perhaps includes more classic creatures, yet at the same time has its own AoS flare to the designs. A kings, queens and knights type army would be great to see on the battlefields.
Eumerin wrote: The Sigmarines are supposed to be a (more or less) human faction. But yes, I agree that the game could probably use an updated "baseline" human faction. And after giving it some thought, I think a lot could also be done with the Neo-Brettonian idea that I largely made in jest. A human heavy cavalry faction with "evolved" barding, and possibly even mounts, could look pretty spectacular.
Having seen GW's mounts as of late I'd REALLY love them to give us such an army. A more classic fantasy army that perhaps includes more classic creatures, yet at the same time has its own AoS flare to the designs. A kings, queens and knights type army would be great to see on the battlefields.
Mr Morden wrote: I wonder if Morathi has found a way to actually become Khaine - that way she gets her godhood and also keeps her massive Realm spanning cult.
It also depends if you actually have to have worshippers to be a God. Different fantasy worlds have different takes on this.
It appears not as Sigmar was still a god when alone in the void?
Isn't that Flesh Eater courts
Far as we can tell belief does generate power for the gods, but it isn't the old source and it seems to vary a lot. Sigmar seems to have persisted partly on the power and belief from the Old World that was before entering the Realms. Meanwhile Morathi has to harvest belief that is originally heading toward Khaines heart. Demons from the Warp also seem to desire/feed from belief and believers to swell their ranks. Meanwhile we have Nagash who has innate magical talents even before the worship of the undead.
Suffice to say I think belief is a powerful boon for Gods and likely a cornerstone of what sets them apart from simply being very powerful wizards/magical users.
and yeah technically the FEC see themselves as knights; but its a theme that does not translate to their models one bit. Which I sort of like because it means we don't get quirky models like a vampire riding an undead pig thinking he's going to war on a nobel steed etc... Instead you have a larger vampire who is just bigger and can move faster who thinks he's on a horse.
Yeah I think you are right re belief as a power source but I still wonder if Morathi can become Khaine in the same way as Nagash has devoured myriad gods of the dead.
Khaine is explicitly a god of murder. Morathi's schtick has never really been exclusively focused on bloodshed. She might be able to absorb his power, but she wouldn't become him.
Someone suggested that Idoneth should be in Death because of soulstealing. It makes no sense. Nagash haaates them
Nagash hates everyone - always has done....
but yeah - soul stealing is not something exclusive to Death - Sigmar did an awful lot of it - annoyed a lot of people - lving and dead in Syish when they found out where all their heroes went in their time of need.
Indeed those heroes who might have stood and prevailed against Nagash's legions were lost and thus Nagash was and is able to sweep across the Realm of Death, corrupting and twisting all to his will.
Interestingly Skaven appear not to be losing the war against Nagash and are instead standing strong against his legions from what little lore we've seen. So who knows perhaps Sigmar traded victory for the living with loss for the dead and hoped Nagash would not betray him. Or at least not so swiftly .
Overread wrote: Indeed those heroes who might have stood and prevailed against Nagash's legions were lost and thus Nagash was and is able to sweep across the Realm of Death, corrupting and twisting all to his will.
Interestingly Skaven appear not to be losing the war against Nagash and are instead standing strong against his legions from what little lore we've seen. So who knows perhaps Sigmar traded victory for the living with loss for the dead and hoped Nagash would not betray him. Or at least not so swiftly .
It was more against Chaos than Nagash as Chaos was defeating the broken pantheon and its varied disparate forces.
The Skaven can defeat pretty much anyone - but they always will spend more time scheming and fighting each other. Nagash is also directly attacking the Skaven Aferlife - which appears to be as bad or worse than their mortal existance or is that what you were refering to?
Overread wrote: Indeed those heroes who might have stood and prevailed against Nagash's legions were lost and thus Nagash was and is able to sweep across the Realm of Death, corrupting and twisting all to his will.
Interestingly Skaven appear not to be losing the war against Nagash and are instead standing strong against his legions from what little lore we've seen. So who knows perhaps Sigmar traded victory for the living with loss for the dead and hoped Nagash would not betray him. Or at least not so swiftly .
It was more against Chaos than Nagash as Chaos was defeating the broken pantheon and its varied disparate forces.
The Skaven can defeat pretty much anyone - but they always will spend more time scheming and fighting each other. Nagash is also directly attacking the Skaven Aferlife - which appears to be as bad or worse than their mortal existance or is that what you were refering to?
I mean that in Sigmar's desire to beat Chaos he took souls from the dead realms. Weakening them and leaving them more vulnerable to Nagash. At least the human realms of the dead.
And yes I meant the dead Skaven in their afterlife; prevailing against Nagash's Legions. a Stalemate that I'd expect to persist.
Eldarsif wrote: I think the most exciting part about the new Broken Realms books is the fact that AoS seems to be more open to meaningful lore changes and story progressions since the setting isn't held to the same baggage as 40.000. It's one of the points that draws me to AoS: I can see the story I am engage in evolve and progress, hopefully without it keeping the eternal status quo.
Sure, it's been the most exciting part of AOS since it launched. We've had a massive amount of campaign books and story advancement, to the point when someone's like "AOS has no story" I believe they're willfully ignorant or just a poe.
Agreed. And for the overwhelming majority of it I have really liked the stories & direction too, where as in 40k there are parts I simply tolerate.
Skaven defeating Nagash is simply what they do. The Skaven had a hand in almost all of Nagash's big screw-ups in the Old World, including the creation of the Tomb Kings. Off the top of my head, the inly notable defeat that the Skaven weren't involved in was when mortal Sigmar beat him.
Skaven in AoS are a bit like Orks in 40K - got a problem with the plot going nuts? Got someone about to win - throw the Skaven/Orks at em and mess up their plans real good like! Yes Yes!
Overread wrote: I still find it odd when people say Morathi should become the new Slaanesh - because all the lore for DoK is fevered hate of chaos and Slaanesh in particular.
Her becoming the new Slaanesh basically just means she would usurp their power which would be in line with her end goal. She likes power and becoming a god, even a chaos one, wouldn't be beneath her.
Idoneth in Death I think would work if Death was more than "factions who are ruled by Nagash".
There is a certain Nagash problem in Death and I feel like GW needs to change that by changing the power balance. It's why I kinda want Soulblight and FEC to stand together and bring some other power that could potentially resist Nagash's influence. Currently GA: Death is kind stuck being the only Grand Alliance that has one all powerful ruler whereas other GA tend to have shakier grounds.
It is hinted in the novels that some of the Mortarchs aren't really all about Nagash and I'd love for GW to expand upon them and have some split from his Legion.
The last time Morathi tried to use Chaos for her own power she lost. She lost her mind, her body, her people and her whole world. She lost almost every single thing except her life and that she had to pull from the belly of Slaanesh. Tearing herself out of the horror before being dropped into the darkness of the Realm of Shadow. Wandering alone, her beautiful body mutated into a horror fitting for a creature of Slaanesh.
No I can't see her wanting to become Slaanesh or entertaining the infernal Chaos powers. She lost so much last time, to do so again would not be a bid for power but a move of sheer madness; if anything it would be like admitting that Slaanesh won and that she has no option but to bow to Chaos and become one with it.
Nope I'd wager as important as gaining power and godhood is to her; she'd not want to become Slaanesh or anything Chaos.
There is a certain Nagash problem in Death and I feel like GW needs to change that by changing the power balance. It's why I kinda want Soulblight and FEC to stand together and bring some other power that could potentially resist Nagash's influence. Currently GA: Death is kind stuck being the only Grand Alliance that has one all powerful ruler whereas other GA tend to have shakier grounds.
It is hinted in the novels that some of the Mortarchs aren't really all about Nagash and I'd love for GW to expand upon them and have some split from his Legion.
Neferata and Mannfred hate and fear Nagash but Neferata manages him (as always) better - but its also not certain if they even can exist without him or that they are anything more than his memories of them from the old world. However if they could get rid of him and get freedom - they would in a instant.
Arkhan and the Bonereaper Mortarch seem to be content to serve and Arkhan is even trying to steer Nagash and Sigmar towards a reconciliation - the dead think long term!
Morathi and Neferata work in similar ways behind the scenes - and Neferata would even likely be in a similar place in the cities if Nagash had not arisen.
I am intertested to see what role Morathi's son has in this.
Eldarsif wrote: We don't always get what we want as the fates have a cruel jest in their mind. Even Morathi is vulnerable to what the fates have in store.
Or we could have her draw enough power from the heart of Khaine to ascend, and since the power came through the heart, she'd most likely take an aspect of goddess of murder. Not turn into Khaine, but a deity of the same type. Much easier to sell to the witch-elves too, as new incarnation of Khaine rather than brand new goddess. Which fits her far more, and makes nice shift from old morathi to AoS morathi.
Would a God of Murder have to commit to a godly murder to ascend? Perhaps her plan is to stab and kill one of the other gods to attain a rise to power that way.
Morathi ends the Age of Sigmar and ushers in the Age of Morathi as she kills the Storm God
No one is going to replace Slaanesh. The hedonite battletome even explains why quite bluntly; replacing Slaanesh means becoming part of the Great Game, and anyone who tried would be obliterated by the other three in short order--they wouldn't even come close. But more importantly, that just isn't a plot thread GW can reasonably work with. That theory is just the new version of 'they are squatting Slaanesh!'
As for Idoneth in Death, I would respectfully say that someone who suggests that does not understand Idoneth or Death very well. "Harvests souls" fits into the overall Death theme well but it is not monopolized by Nagash (the Soul Wars are about him trying to), nor does every Death faction even do so.
Eldarsif wrote: We don't always get what we want as the fates have a cruel jest in their mind. Even Morathi is vulnerable to what the fates have in store.
Or we could have her draw enough power from the heart of Khaine to ascend, and since the power came through the heart, she'd most likely take an aspect of goddess of murder. Not turn into Khaine, but a deity of the same type. Much easier to sell to the witch-elves too, as new incarnation of Khaine rather than brand new goddess. Which fits her far more, and makes nice shift from old morathi to AoS morathi.
Indeed - it might be that the worship and the heart are changing her as well into what Khaine's worshippers believe her to be.....
Be interesting to see if DoK still stay as GA Order or something else - however they are (currently) more part of society and less predators on the edge than the deepkin - despite what likely some Stormcast and the Order of Azyr want.
Also how the Scourge and other more dodgy factions react.
There is a certain Nagash problem in Death and I feel like GW needs to change that by changing the power balance. It's why I kinda want Soulblight and FEC to stand together and bring some other power that could potentially resist Nagash's influence. Currently GA: Death is kind stuck being the only Grand Alliance that has one all powerful ruler whereas other GA tend to have shakier grounds.
It is hinted in the novels that some of the Mortarchs aren't really all about Nagash and I'd love for GW to expand upon them and have some split from his Legion.
Bring back the Tomb Kings (there's mention of them within the setting, so they do exist), and give them a mechanic that allows them to stay out from under Nagash's thumb. Maybe their priestly rituals somehow still work. That would solve the problem.
It could also add some internal conflict to the Death faction since some of the Mortrarchs would no doubt start causing intrigues to try and figure out how the Tomb Kings are able to stay free, and whether their methods could be used by the Mortrarchs themselves.
As for the official topic -
Morathi isn't afraid of spilling blood. But she was always linked to pleasure, not murder. Malekith was the publicly proclaimed Avatar of Khaine in Druuchii society (note that was merely a proclamation to keep Khaine's Cult under control; he wasn't actually linked to Khaine), while Morathi led the Cult of Pleasure. Even given her new-found revulsion for Slaanesh, actively becoming the God of Murder would seem out of character for her. Also, fully embracing murder as her portfolio might risk the problem that Khaine has always had - namely, becoming too closely linked to Khorne.
I see that the Morathi book will be available as an eBook. That does annoy me. If 40K was still available as eBooks I’d have bought the rule book, space marine codex, Necron codex and preordered Death Watch by now.
It's all up for grabs next sunday! Shadow and Pain; the starter sets for the Cities of Sigmar, Stormcast, Idoneth and Slaves to Darkness themes and the Morathi book!
Now to await the price fairies to see what its all going to cost. Right now I'm down for at least one duel set and the Morathi book. I'd sort of like 2 of the set (since I collect both forces); but I'm not heavily pressured. At the very least this gets most of my November spending out of the way in the first week. Just got to wait for the 5th Gotrek and Felix Omnibus later this month
I would love for Tomb King to return but I do fear they would lose some of the old cool aesthetics if they were to be updated. There is also a chance that the Ossiarch Bonereapers might have shut the door on future Tomb King releases as they are strangely close aesthetically.
I'd love to see the Carrion King return and maybe create a power with some of the other Vampire Lords to resist some of the all consuming influence Nagash has over the realm.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I see that the Morathi book will be available as an eBook. That does annoy me. If 40K was still available as eBooks I’d have bought the rule book, space marine codex, Necron codex and preordered Death Watch by now.
I fear that when 3.0 hits we'll lose the option to buy AoS books as eBooks as well. This seems to be the path GW wants to take.
Even given her new-found revulsion for Slaanesh, actively becoming the God of Murder would seem out of character for her.
she seemingly had the most of a character growth arc of all the goofs that make up the survivors of Old world, it would be out of character for the pre-Slaanesh digested Morathi, not the post-digested one.
It's all up for grabs next sunday! Shadow and Pain; the starter sets for the Cities of Sigmar, Stormcast, Idoneth and Slaves to Darkness themes and the Morathi book!
Now to await the price fairies to see what its all going to cost. Right now I'm down for at least one duel set and the Morathi book. I'd sort of like 2 of the set (since I collect both forces); but I'm not heavily pressured. At the very least this gets most of my November spending out of the way in the first week. Just got to wait for the 5th Gotrek and Felix Omnibus later this month
Meh. Those faction boxes are uninspired (basic dark elf infantry, 3xchariots, 2xsharks+seapony). At least, once I found them on the revolving thing on the broken realms page, no idea why they just didn't put the contents on the WarCom article...
Not quite sure how they'll tie these 'factions' into a narrative either.
Shadow and Pain would be a lot more appealing without those terrible marauders on steeds models.
Went to the Broken Realms site and from there to the AoS faction site and read this:
Lithe, cruel and swift of blade, the Daughters of Khaine are a religious order of matriarchal aelves hailing from Ulgu, the Realm of Shadow. They live for the thrill of open war and spilt blood, with a special hatred for the forces of Chaos. Led by the goddess Morathi, their many cults across the Mortal Realms revel in slaughter – and on the tabletop, the more blood they spill, the more dangerous they become.
So, yeah, she did it. Move along, folks. Nothing to see here.
I don’t know, she has always been very schemy and more often than not her plots and plans involved betrayal and murder of her allies and enemies.
Regardless, Her change into AOS has certainly severed her old ties to Slaanesh as a few centuries in his gullet has corrupted her body and made herself completely opposed to Slaanesh. Hence how she has become much more of a shadow queen in her latest incarnation - using bloodshed and plots to fuel her apotheosis. She uses the Heart of Khaine to protect herself and certainly empower her abilities - what’s to say the Heart is not changing her as well?
Dryaktylus wrote: Went to the Broken Realms site and from there to the AoS faction site and read this:
Lithe, cruel and swift of blade, the Daughters of Khaine are a religious order of matriarchal aelves hailing from Ulgu, the Realm of Shadow. They live for the thrill of open war and spilt blood, with a special hatred for the forces of Chaos. Led by the goddess Morathi, their many cults across the Mortal Realms revel in slaughter – and on the tabletop, the more blood they spill, the more dangerous they become.
So, yeah, she did it. Move along, folks. Nothing to see here.
/shrug. Everybody else got to be a god anyway.
It doesn't seem to matter if they show up on the tabletop to get punched in the face or not, so...
It feels... kinda irrelevant?
It's all up for grabs next sunday! Shadow and Pain; the starter sets for the Cities of Sigmar, Stormcast, Idoneth and Slaves to Darkness themes and the Morathi book!
Now to await the price fairies to see what its all going to cost. Right now I'm down for at least one duel set and the Morathi book. I'd sort of like 2 of the set (since I collect both forces); but I'm not heavily pressured. At the very least this gets most of my November spending out of the way in the first week. Just got to wait for the 5th Gotrek and Felix Omnibus later this month
Meh. Those faction boxes are uninspired (basic dark elf infantry, 3xchariots, 2xsharks+seapony). At least, once I found them on the revolving thing on the broken realms page, no idea why they just didn't put the contents on the WarCom article...
Not quite sure how they'll tie these 'factions' into a narrative either.
Shadow and Pain would be a lot more appealing without those terrible marauders on steeds models.
I'm not a fan of the mortal riders either (its why its one of the few models I don't yet own); however a chance to get them at discount is good for me. Plus if you save up spare bodies from chariots the mount riders from them can fit onto regular seekers so you could likely get a few regular demons on seekers out of it .
Dryaktylus wrote: Went to the Broken Realms site and from there to the AoS faction site and read this:
Lithe, cruel and swift of blade, the Daughters of Khaine are a religious order of matriarchal aelves hailing from Ulgu, the Realm of Shadow. They live for the thrill of open war and spilt blood, with a special hatred for the forces of Chaos. Led by the goddess Morathi, their many cults across the Mortal Realms revel in slaughter – and on the tabletop, the more blood they spill, the more dangerous they become.
So, yeah, she did it. Move along, folks. Nothing to see here.
/shrug. Everybody else got to be a god anyway.
It doesn't seem to matter if they show up on the tabletop to get punched in the face or not, so...
It feels... kinda irrelevant?
Well getting both versions of her on the table at the same time for probably like 20% price increase matters somewhat
Khaine was god of more than just murder, there was way more depth than that. The Dark Elf interpretation of him was just one side of the coin. As for Morathi following Slaanesh, that was a thing in the retconned Storm of Chaos campaign. In End Times there was never any hint of her worshipping Slaanesh.
Even given her new-found revulsion for Slaanesh, actively becoming the God of Murder would seem out of character for her.
she seemingly had the most of a character growth arc of all the goofs that make up the survivors of Old world, it would be out of character for the pre-Slaanesh digested Morathi, not the post-digested one.
It is pretty in-line with her power-hungry self in End Times: Khaine.
As I recall Khaine also had a lot of rules on murder, it had to be done in certain ways and to certain standards. He was never about just mindless slaughter.
The DoK I think have abandoned some of those teachings as they've given themselves almost fully into the blood magic; then again Morathi is purely after power and Khaine is reduced to an Iron Heart.
Overread wrote: As I recall Khaine also had a lot of rules on murder, it had to be done in certain ways and to certain standards. He was never about just mindless slaughter.
The DoK I think have abandoned some of those teachings as they've given themselves almost fully into the blood magic; then again Morathi is purely after power and Khaine is reduced to an Iron Heart.
Khaine did not seem to speak much to his worshippers in the Warhammer World and most was different interpretations - even then for thousands of years, Morathi was the chosen of Khaine (and Slaanesh and other gods) - she was the one with the Culdrons and only she was eternally renewed by them much to the chargain of Helleborn and others who were true believers in Khaine.
Morathi was always power hungry with her love for Anarion and to a lesser extent their son being some of the few selfish elements of her character.
The Witch Elves were all about the blood frenzy/killing. Always have been If anything the AOS version is civilised - alhought thats one main kult tasked with providing the public face of the DoK.
Overread wrote: As I recall Khaine also had a lot of rules on murder, it had to be done in certain ways and to certain standards. He was never about just mindless slaughter.
The DoK I think have abandoned some of those teachings as they've given themselves almost fully into the blood magic; then again Morathi is purely after power and Khaine is reduced to an Iron Heart.
He was the God of Murder (at least for the Dark Elves), and this was explicitly identified as one of the reasons why he was separate and distinct from Khorne.
Presumably the Witch Elf frenzies on the battlefield managed to fit within that description even in the Old World.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Khaine was god of more than just murder, there was way more depth than that. The Dark Elf interpretation of him was just one side of the coin. As for Morathi following Slaanesh, that was a thing in the retconned Storm of Chaos campaign. In End Times there was never any hint of her worshipping Slaanesh.
Even given her new-found revulsion for Slaanesh, actively becoming the God of Murder would seem out of character for her.
she seemingly had the most of a character growth arc of all the goofs that make up the survivors of Old world, it would be out of character for the pre-Slaanesh digested Morathi, not the post-digested one.
It is pretty in-line with her power-hungry self in End Times: Khaine.
It was in her background from the start she was rescued from a Slaaneshi warband but there was suspicion she was not really a captive.
She started and ran the Pleasure Cults in Ulthuan and later in Naggaroth - now was that for Atharti (goddess of pleasure and seduction) or for Slaanesh - not sure.
What I would really like to see is Morathi expect herself to ascend as a Goddess of Shadow - but end up as the Goddess of Murder instead. She is highly capable with the powers of Ulgu and goes out of her way to build Temples on fonts of Ulgu realm magic - but we know Malerion is the true God of the Shadow Realm.
A way Ulgu subverts Morathi's ambitions and influence is when Doomfire Warlocks are born - Ulgu magic seeks out male Khainanites and imbues some with mastery over it - which Morathi takes offense to and brands all of her Doomfire Warlocks with runes that gives her control over them should they try to rebel.
Its just a theory but I feel either Malerion or the Realm-Spirit of Ulgu is going to throw a wrench into Morathi's plans one way or another...
I am excited for the big box to be released. I’ve been after one hellstrider whip and one sword arm for a long time! Hopefully bits suppliers will be selling!
It's all up for grabs next sunday! Shadow and Pain; the starter sets for the Cities of Sigmar, Stormcast, Idoneth and Slaves to Darkness themes and the Morathi book!
Now to await the price fairies to see what its all going to cost. Right now I'm down for at least one duel set and the Morathi book. I'd sort of like 2 of the set (since I collect both forces); but I'm not heavily pressured. At the very least this gets most of my November spending out of the way in the first week. Just got to wait for the 5th Gotrek and Felix Omnibus later this month
Meh. Those faction boxes are uninspired (basic dark elf infantry, 3xchariots, 2xsharks+seapony). At least, once I found them on the revolving thing on the broken realms page, no idea why they just didn't put the contents on the WarCom article...
Not quite sure how they'll tie these 'factions' into a narrative either.
Shadow and Pain would be a lot more appealing without those terrible marauders on steeds models.
I'm not a fan of the mortal riders either (its why its one of the few models I don't yet own); however a chance to get them at discount is good for me. Plus if you save up spare bodies from chariots the mount riders from them can fit onto regular seekers so you could likely get a few regular demons on seekers out of it .
I for one kind like the hellstriders.
I would like to have a (regular/not mutated) version of them with swords and shields.
They have been the only (granted half) half mortals we have for Slaanesh for years.
Not quite sure how they'll tie these 'factions' into a narrative either.
The Stormcast and the Cities of Sigmar units are both from the city of Anvilgard.
The others don't have an obvious connection without seeing the lore.
The Idoneth King is from Ionrach and a trusted second to Volturnos, who has...issues with Morathi.
To be fair a lot of people have issues with the Idoneth stealing souls - including the Sylvaneth and DoK - where is the specific issue between the King and Morathi?
As long as the Morathi book doesn't end in a status quo or a fething cliffhanger leaving all events described in the book unresolved, I'll be happy.
If Morathi does indeed become a goddess at the end of the book, that's already not PA material.
As for Khaine, he always was the God of Murder, War and Wrath for the elves. There is a (good) reason why High Elves forbid his cult along with the other "dark elven gods" in the World that Was - even if he was part of the elven pantheon.
Egyptian Space Zombie wrote: Interesting that they are pushing another Slaanesh box after how well Wrath and Rapture did.
I find it hard to tell if Wrath and Rapture really sold badly or if GW just flooded their own market with way too much because it was joint 40K and AoS and so produced way more behind the scenes. It might be its sold as well/better than some of hte other duel boxes. I'd also note that it probably would have done a bit better if GW hadn't doubled down on basically making the AoS Slaanesh tome into just wanting to take Keepers of Secrets and the odd other leader.
So about £55-60 in oppression bucks, I could do that - for the dark elves one that's a decent saving - basically makes one of the two troop boxes free ish
Huh, so from comparison shopping, looks like 185USD. That is...surprisingly low for GW. I was expecting well over 200 considering the snek girls are 108usd for 10 and the flying ones are 52usd - factoring in the new HQ (which will inevitably be too expensive), and the Daughters of Khaine side alone is retail at about 180.
Irbis wrote: 80 euro for SCE? 22 miniatures, including 14 primaris sized ones. For comparison, DW patrol is 110 for 15 primaris.
Yup, AoS starts looking more and more like primary GW game that gets all the love and competent crew
Something to keep in mind is those models are OLD. New boxes are more expensive than comparable. Thus the judicators are cheaper than primaris infantry on the virtue of being older. And they can't exactly price the box like it would contain primaris as that would make making box more expensive than separately.
Counterpoint - all the primaris in patrol are old too. 7th edition DW upgrade sprues (DW didn't even got primaris one like all the other chapters, SMH), almost all minis are first wave primaris who aren't exactly young either, newest one is single late 2017 Lieutenant. GW priced almost exactly the same models much lower early 2020 when they were put in SW primaris SC...
Irbis wrote: Counterpoint - all the primaris in patrol are old too. 7th edition DW upgrade sprues (DW didn't even got primaris one like all the other chapters, SMH), almost all minis are first wave primaris who aren't exactly young either, newest one is single late 2017 Lieutenant. GW priced almost exactly the same models much lower early 2020 when they were put in SW primaris SC...
Stormcast came 2015. Primaris 2017. Now remind me. Is model released in 2017 newer than one in 2015? I could swear it's pretty easy to say 2017 is newer but guess it's not as clear after all.
So? It's not matter of difference. It's matter of new sku. If gw repacks rhino with new sku that's reason for gw to up price.
In case you haven't been following gw releases for years gw ups price of comparable models. Technology, sprue count etc is irrelevant.
They started this when they stopped raising price of every item each year. Likely their way of dealing with inflation since yearly range wide price hikes were proving unpopular plus seeing year old models are already trickle profit age price increase in new models is more profitable anyway.
Huh, so from comparison shopping, looks like 185USD. That is...surprisingly low for GW. I was expecting well over 200 considering the snek girls are 108usd for 10 and the flying ones are 52usd - factoring in the new HQ (which will inevitably be too expensive), and the Daughters of Khaine side alone is retail at about 180.
These boxes have generally been a really good deal. The last two were 180, looks like the same here as well.
I just find it funny how elusive they attempt to be about her ascension and then they reveal the contents page of the book.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In other exciting news the Idoneth are getting mount traits.
"The question is, does Morathi succeed in her quest, or is she thwarted at the last by her rivals? Well, we’re not going to confirm anything one way or the other, so you’ll have to pre-order the book on Saturday to find out!"
Don't know if people have noticed it but the Slaves to Darkness battalion is listed under the Idoneth rules. Either somebody forgot to add a Slaves to Darkness header or Idoneth are now officially chaos.
(I suspect this is a typo and they forgot to add a format to the Idolators name above)
I just find it funny how elusive they attempt to be about her ascension and then they reveal the contents page of the book.
Automatically Appended Next Post: In other exciting news the Idoneth are getting mount traits.
Thing is we don't know if it worked. Or if it worked the way she wanted. It's called Morathi-Khaine. We've no idea if its a reflection of Morathi; if she's gone totally insane with her mind being merged with khiane; if its actually Khaine running things; we've no idea. It could also be that she totally fails in her quest and as "reward" her body gets somehow split into two; now there's two Morathi in the realms!
After all which half of her will live in the other's shadow
"The question is, does Morathi succeed in her quest, or is she thwarted at the last by her rivals? Well, we’re not going to confirm anything one way or the other, so you’ll have to pre-order the book on Saturday to find out!"
Yes, that's what is funny. It's like they didn't read what they posted in the article.
Come on, if you call yourself "Morathi-Khaine", it's certainly not because you failed a ritual to achieve godhood.
I think my theory about her dividing her essence in two and separating herself from the monstruous form inherited from Slaanesh is gaining more ground now !
I'm actually super excited about this because my Cauldrons are all converted to have Morathi standing atop a shattered statue of Khaine. It was my headcanon that this was going to happen and it came true! Go complete blind luck!
ERJAK wrote: I'm actually super excited about this because my Cauldrons are all converted to have Morathi standing atop a shattered statue of Khaine. It was my headcanon that this was going to happen and it came true! Go complete blind luck!
Ah, give yourself more credit; your headcanon was well-predicted.
Bet Morathi will use her monstruous form as the new avatar of Khaine to keep deceiving the Daughters of Khaine, and her "normal self" as the Shadow Queen.
"The question is, does Morathi succeed in her quest, or is she thwarted at the last by her rivals? Well, we’re not going to confirm anything one way or the other, so you’ll have to pre-order the book on Saturday to find out!"
Yes, that's what is funny. It's like they didn't read what they posted in the article.
Come on, if you call yourself "Morathi-Khaine", it's certainly not because you failed a ritual to achieve godhood.
I think my theory about her dividing her essence in two and separating herself from the monstruous form inherited from Slaanesh is gaining more ground now !
I think the "-Khaine" part may imply some sort of symbiosis, which knowing Morathi probably wasn't part of the plan. Though it could be just a title to placate her forces, them being Khaine's daughters and all.
Sarouan wrote: Bet Morathi will use her monstruous form as the new avatar of Khaine to keep deceiving the Daughters of Khaine, and her "normal self" as the Shadow Queen.
Which from a gameplay perspective means that shadowqueen will see much more play unless MKUltra has super OP rules.
Considering that right now Morathi is 480points on her own where she shifts between the two forms. Where in theory she could remain in her first form for an entire battle; I wonder how GW will split her for the book
If they just straight up let her take both forms at once with minimal changes to the warscroll and mostly just removing the transformation step then taking both might be legal, but might cost close to 900points just to put on the table. Making it quite impractical outside of special situations and greater than 2K battles.
The other option is one or both forms become weaker so that they can have a lower points cost.
WE also don't know if they'll have a synergy between them and boost each other. That if combined with lower points might make them an almost "every time" duel combo.
It's a curious situation and a rare one as GW rarely does the kind of move where you have one model transform to another (I think the only other time they did that is with mounts and riders in old world)
Right now the best way to use Morathi is immediately transform turn 1, so were the forms split her monstrous form could stay at the same cost and her aelf form cost (considerably) less. But I imagine there will be rules changes.
Overread wrote: Considering that right now Morathi is 480points on her own where she shifts between the two forms. Where in theory she could remain in her first form for an entire battle; I wonder how GW will split her for the book
If they just straight up let her take both forms at once with minimal changes to the warscroll and mostly just removing the transformation step then taking both might be legal, but might cost close to 900points just to put on the table. Making it quite impractical outside of special situations and greater than 2K battles.
The other option is one or both forms become weaker so that they can have a lower points cost.
WE also don't know if they'll have a synergy between them and boost each other. That if combined with lower points might make them an almost "every time" duel combo.
It's a curious situation and a rare one as GW rarely does the kind of move where you have one model transform to another (I think the only other time they did that is with mounts and riders in old world)
My guess is shadowqueen will be current mini-morathi at a cheaper price(which would be a HUGE buff for DoK armies) and MK Ultra will be big morathi only but with buffed up rules to compensate for the loss of her smaller forms very large value add. Honestly they could keep her at 480 with better melee and a nicer degrade table.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Right now the best way to use Morathi is immediately transform turn 1, so were the forms split her monstrous form could stay at the same cost and her aelf form cost (considerably) less. But I imagine there will be rules changes.
There's a lot of nuance in using Morathi effectively and even when transforming Morathi turn 1, the Transformation itself is hugely valuable as it essentially results in an extra 3 to 4 inch move.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Right now the best way to use Morathi is immediately transform turn 1, so were the forms split her monstrous form could stay at the same cost and her aelf form cost (considerably) less. But I imagine there will be rules changes.
There's a lot of nuance in using Morathi effectively and even when transforming Morathi turn 1, the Transformation itself is hugely valuable as it essentially results in an extra 3 to 4 inch move.
I am aware, but that value is offset by the ability of certain army builds to shoot/spell her top of 1, meaning the damage is effective doubled. I figure they largely even out, with snek form perhaps being worth 10-20 pts less on its own.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Right now the best way to use Morathi is immediately transform turn 1, so were the forms split her monstrous form could stay at the same cost and her aelf form cost (considerably) less. But I imagine there will be rules changes.
There's a lot of nuance in using Morathi effectively and even when transforming Morathi turn 1, the Transformation itself is hugely valuable as it essentially results in an extra 3 to 4 inch move.
I am aware, but that value is offset by the ability of certain army builds to shoot/spell her top of 1, meaning the damage is effective doubled. I figure they largely even out, with snek form perhaps being worth 10-20 pts less on its own.
Yes, against armies that have a reliable ability to damage morathi turn one(which is harder than you might think given she's at least -2 to hit in shooting) it's much more valuable to transform her immediately and slingshot her out, against armies that don't she can land every spell in her arsenal all the way across the board turn one AND often slip under an opponents notice until she takes over the board turn 3ish.
In a Kharadron, Tzeentch, Seraphon meta, her small form is of limited utility, yes. But in a FEC, Khorne, Deepkin meta her small form can potentially be the more useful of the two.
I wouldn't pay more than maybe 380 for the snake form by itself. The lack of flexibility really, really emphasizes just how lackluster her snake form's stats actually are.
Well it's the stats being really good coupled with a unique durability, but the form IS rather straightforward. It is just really good at being straightforward. At any rate, a straight snek form warscroll would obviously not be worth more than the combined one currently costs, nor would the humanoid form be worth nearly as much.
Overread wrote: Considering that right now Morathi is 480points on her own where she shifts between the two forms. Where in theory she could remain in her first form for an entire battle; I wonder how GW will split her for the book
Rumour I read is: "DoK are getting the Zainthar Kai temple which has battalions and two warscrolls that let you use both versions of Morathi on the tabletop at the same time".
H.B.M.C. wrote: So the box is the same cost as Teclis. So not another AUD$350 albatross/boondoggle like that Eldar/DE box.
Hopefully they burned themselves bad on that box.
They definitely won't be burning themselves on THIS box.
I actually think people actually aren't really looking at how ridiculous the value of that box set is. It's got a good selection of very frequently used units including characters you can't get anywhere else for 170USD.
The DoK side is 161 USD WITHOUT the new character. Figure a standard 35$ character sprue and you're looking at it being a discount if you throw the slaanesh half into the garbage.
This combined with Indomitus mean that post Blood of the Pheonix we've seen two of the absolute best value box sets GW has ever done. Circumstantial evidence suggests they learned some kind of lesson from it.
Admittedly at the cost of good Start Collecting style boxes but...GW gonna GW.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So looking at the rules they posted, I'm IMMEDIATELY much less interested in the book.
The rules are useless. Not bad, useless. +1 bravery means literally nothing, even accounting for mindrazor, the +1 attack buff is nowhere near as good as reroll all to hit rolls from HaggNarr.
The battalion is actively detrimental to bring. It's literally a handicap. It requires TWO shrines, which are already bad models, for the sake of allowing you to sacrifice khinerai or melusai to heal itself. BOTH khinerai and Melusai are wound for wound FAR more valuable. If the OPPOSITE was true, that you could sacrifice the SHRINE'S wounds to bring back melusai it might be useful, as is it's worse than bringing nothing at all.
Maybe GW is experimenting with negative point battalions. Take this battalion and you can take 2200pts to a 2000 point game to pay for how terrible it is.
So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Man, Stormcasts look really good in Anvils of the Heldenhammer colours.
Black Legion is always a really striking color scheme (when done correctly). Simplicity and contrast always helps models stand out.
Voss wrote: So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.
Wha-Mu-077 wrote: Man, Stormcasts look really good in Anvils of the Heldenhammer colours.
Black Legion is always a really striking color scheme (when done correctly). Simplicity and contrast always helps models stand out.
Nice that they're showing off converted stormcast on the website. GW could benefit from being more open about conversions. I get that they're afraid of 3rd party influence, but still
Voss wrote: So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.
They may have existed on a map or something in the fluff, but they did not have rules. Also unlike Psychic Awakening these are not 'upgrade' rules; they are additional options that can be taken instead of the normal ones. That's a big reason why I like the AoS campaign books so much. For someone not interested in these additional options the only thing they would need from the book is the updated warscrolls, which will be free in the app.
Voss wrote: So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.
Not in any capacity I remember. Which is good, they're expanding the lore!
As for how they interact, the same as any other Free City? A Free City is just allegiance abilities and unit selection for CoS book, plugging a new City into it is literally the easiest thing ever since it doesn't invalidate or amend any actual warsrcolls.
Voss wrote: So.. did Misthaven and Har Kuron even exist before? I don't recognize the names from what people have said about the Cities of Sigmar book. How do they interact with the City-specific special rules of that faction?
I don't get GW's obsession with making factions and subfactions more complicated.
Not in any capacity I remember. Which is good, they're expanding the lore!
As for how they interact, the same as any other Free City? A Free City is just allegiance abilities and unit selection for CoS book, plugging a new City into it is literally the easiest thing ever since it doesn't invalidate or amend any actual warsrcolls.
As mentioned above, Misthaven was in the Soulbound rpg but yeah new lore is usually a good thing in AOS.
Am I missing something? Is the Lord of Pain missing the back part of the statue head he's standing on or is it intentionally hollow? I don't see a part for it on the sprue
Unless its an odd angle and that's the underside we can see? It would be a pretty big blunder to have left the part off. Very easy to fix (just stuff some greenstuff into the back of it and hide it with some basing), but a bit of a blunder if true.
What I find both sad and amusing is the Lord of Pain's signature ability of negating wounds means that any wound negated doesn't generate depravity. Granted this is fine if its going toe to toe with a stormcast or other multi-wound model and can reflect back on the enemy a wound that doesn't kill; but it won't work as well against any single wound enemies. Still at least it helps keep him around to deal out more damage, but might well mean that statistically he's not as interesting as keepers still.
Overread wrote: What I find both sad and amusing is the Lord of Pain's signature ability of negating wounds means that any wound negated doesn't generate depravity. Granted this is fine if its going toe to toe with a stormcast or other multi-wound model and can reflect back on the enemy a wound that doesn't kill; but it won't work as well against any single wound enemies. Still at least it helps keep him around to deal out more damage, but might well mean that statistically he's not as interesting as keepers still.
I feel like the critical mistake in design was depravity being based on the number of wounds survived. While it makes sense thematically it is not viable as a game mechanic. They should have made it based off the number of units that suffer wounds without dying in a given phase or turn. So a keeper that survives 8 wounds in a given combat phase generates the same depravity as a hellstrider that survived 1 in that phase.
But anyways, in melee there is a counterbalance to the lord of pain where him negating a wound is also inflicting one. So the depravity may still be generated anyways.
GaroRobe wrote: Am I missing something? Is the Lord of Pain missing the back part of the statue head he's standing on or is it intentionally hollow? I don't see a part for it on the sprue
I wouldn't be suprised if GW just cheaped out and intentionally made it hollow to reduce costs by like 0.01 Pounds for every 10 boxes they make.
So looking at the rules they posted, I'm IMMEDIATELY much less interested in the book.
The rules are useless. Not bad, useless. +1 bravery means literally nothing, even accounting for mindrazor, the +1 attack buff is nowhere near as good as reroll all to hit rolls from HaggNarr.
The battalion is actively detrimental to bring. It's literally a handicap. It requires TWO shrines, which are already bad models, for the sake of allowing you to sacrifice khinerai or melusai to heal itself. BOTH khinerai and Melusai are wound for wound FAR more valuable. If the OPPOSITE was true, that you could sacrifice the SHRINE'S wounds to bring back melusai it might be useful, as is it's worse than bringing nothing at all.
If I recall correctly there are a few other rules for DoK, this one only being one of them.
Although not a fan of the DoK revealed rules I am liking the other ones and imagine I might have to buy myself another Idoneth Shark.
Personally when I see rules previews and people go "meh" I'm somewhat enthusiastic!
See if we were all going "OMG That's so OP" it would mean that GW had clearly messed it up and updated the armies with super-powered auto-take models that would be broken in the game. Ergo its bad for internal batteltome balance and game balance in general.
Middle of the row stats that provide new options, but don't turn into game changers is just what you want from one new model. You want the snake leader to compliment a snake list, not suddenly define the snake list and also make it an auto-take situation for every DoK army.
Really wish they'd previewed the Eidolon changes. Net launcher is loooooooong overdue for a change. Not sure on the Void Drum or Harpoon changes though.
Far as I recall Idoneth, DoK and Nurgle all had 2.0 compatible books. They were certainly part of the 2.0 production and design sweep, even if they lacked some of the latter almost default options (eg endless spells). Idoneth even got one of the early faction terrains.
That said they were earlier books and a revision is good for them. Plus I'd wager Idoneth, DoK and a good few others are ripe for a second wave of models at some stage to update them properly with more diverse options and variety.
Overread wrote: Far as I recall Idoneth, DoK and Nurgle all had 2.0 compatible books. They were certainly part of the 2.0 production and design sweep, even if they lacked some of the latter almost default options (eg endless spells). Idoneth even got one of the early faction terrains.
That said they were earlier books and a revision is good for them. Plus I'd wager Idoneth, DoK and a good few others are ripe for a second wave of models at some stage to update them properly with more diverse options and variety.
DOK already has a confirmed new model (hero snakelady from shadow and pain)
Overread wrote: Far as I recall Idoneth, DoK and Nurgle all had 2.0 compatible books. They were certainly part of the 2.0 production and design sweep, even if they lacked some of the latter almost default options (eg endless spells). Idoneth even got one of the early faction terrains.
That said they were earlier books and a revision is good for them. Plus I'd wager Idoneth, DoK and a good few others are ripe for a second wave of models at some stage to update them properly with more diverse options and variety.
DOK already has a confirmed new model (hero snakelady from shadow and pain)
Aye, but when I say second wave I mean something closer to what Genestealer Cults got or what Necrons got recently. Ergo several new kits.
OF course GW can do both; they might expand some armies with a big chunky wave of new models and others with a drip-fed supply. DoK have had two recently - the new Shadow team from Warcry (which has yet to be sold on their own) and the new snake lady leader in Shadow and Pain.
Overread wrote: Far as I recall Idoneth, DoK and Nurgle all had 2.0 compatible books. They were certainly part of the 2.0 production and design sweep, even if they lacked some of the latter almost default options (eg endless spells). Idoneth even got one of the early faction terrains.
That said they were earlier books and a revision is good for them. Plus I'd wager Idoneth, DoK and a good few others are ripe for a second wave of models at some stage to update them properly with more diverse options and variety.
DOK already has a confirmed new model (hero snakelady from shadow and pain)
Aye, but when I say second wave I mean something closer to what Genestealer Cults got or what Necrons got recently. Ergo several new kits.
OF course GW can do both; they might expand some armies with a big chunky wave of new models and others with a drip-fed supply. DoK have had two recently - the new Shadow team from Warcry (which has yet to be sold on their own) and the new snake lady leader in Shadow and Pain.
Pretty much every army that got a battletome in 2018 or early 2019 needs at least a handful of new kits.
Overread wrote: Far as I recall Idoneth, DoK and Nurgle all had 2.0 compatible books. They were certainly part of the 2.0 production and design sweep, even if they lacked some of the latter almost default options (eg endless spells). Idoneth even got one of the early faction terrains.
That said they were earlier books and a revision is good for them. Plus I'd wager Idoneth, DoK and a good few others are ripe for a second wave of models at some stage to update them properly with more diverse options and variety.
DOK already has a confirmed new model (hero snakelady from shadow and pain)
Aye, but when I say second wave I mean something closer to what Genestealer Cults got or what Necrons got recently. Ergo several new kits.
OF course GW can do both; they might expand some armies with a big chunky wave of new models and others with a drip-fed supply. DoK have had two recently - the new Shadow team from Warcry (which has yet to be sold on their own) and the new snake lady leader in Shadow and Pain.
Pretty much every army that got a battletome in 2018 or early 2019 needs at least a handful of new kits.
AoS has 3 army types
1) Smaller armies like Daughters of Khaine, Flesheaters, Idoneth, Lumineth, Ossiarchs and others which work well ,but have very small model ranges. Most of these are either brand new armies or cut down armies so they have wound up very limited in choices in comparison to bigger forces. Most would greatly benefit a good solid second wave of models at least. We actually know that Lumineth at least has room for another 3 temple style units and likely associated avatars (not all need to be huge models).
2) Big armies that have a modern diverse range of models. Stormcast and Nighthaunt would sit here. I'd say Khorne is doing pretty well model diversity wise too.
3) Big armies that are mostly full of older sculpts and need more of a revision and update than new models. Skaven and Lizardmen fit in here. Both have good ranges of models - heck Skaven have a fantastic range of models; but they have a lot of old plastics, finecast and even metals kicking around. There's room to consolidate (eg skaven weapon teams could easily be multi-part plastics in one set) and improve (eg the rat ogres!) without needing to add options.
The majority are in section 1, then 3 then 2. The bonus is that AoS doesn't have Space Marines and whilst early marketing tried, its clear that GW is no loner trying to emulate marine releases and popularity through stormcast.
Kanluwen wrote: Idoneth hit shortly before Soul Wars and that swapover. It's never gotten a full updated book. DoK did.
Idoneth definitely needed something, we'll see how this shakes out!
Idoneth came out...AFTER DoK tho? DoK have only had one book.
And DoK, when they came out, were considered to be a 'full updated book'. They went from being a piddly faction in GA: Order to a fairly strong army in their own right.
Idoneth came later but had a lot of concepts that were outdated by the time the book dropped. Looking at you, Eidolons.
Kanluwen wrote: Idoneth hit shortly before Soul Wars and that swapover. It's never gotten a full updated book. DoK did.
Idoneth definitely needed something, we'll see how this shakes out!
Idoneth came out...AFTER DoK tho? DoK have only had one book.
And DoK, when they came out, were considered to be a 'full updated book'. They went from being a piddly faction in GA: Order to a fairly strong army in their own right.
Idoneth came later but had a lot of concepts that were outdated by the time the book dropped. Looking at you, Eidolons.
I don't see it. Idoneth used either the same sort of template DoK used (army wide bonuses that accumulate turn by turn) or more advanced ones (like their 'chapter tactics' being more in line with modern books). DoK was a STRONGER army on release than idoneth was (especially in the meta that existed at that time) but it wasn't any more advanced. Just look at the fact that EVERY DoK command ability requires the model to be the general and offers no bonuses outside of the hero phase. Or the multiple dead in the water model options; slaughter queen on foot who no one takes, bloodstalkers who are 40pts cheaper now, after everything else got more expensive and STILL don't see any play, avatar of khaine, the barely usable but extremely expensive battalions, etc.
Can someone please go on the community site read the leaked rules for Morathi and explain them please as I’m pretty sure they’ve done the biggest set of typo mistakes in one rule ever!
No wolves on Fenris wrote: Can someone please go on the community site read the leaked rules for Morathi and explain them please as I’m pretty sure they’ve done the biggest set of typo mistakes in one rule ever!
yep Looks like its cocked up and should be Morathi-Khaine replacing Shadow Queen in the first occurance.
No wolves on Fenris wrote: Can someone please go on the community site read the leaked rules for Morathi and explain them please as I’m pretty sure they’ve done the biggest set of typo mistakes in one rule ever!
yep Looks like its cocked up and should be Morathi-Khaine replacing Shadow Queen in the first occurance.
I think we’re seeing the rule out of context. If you assume that this is a special rule possessed by Morathi Khaine, then the rule makes perfect sense.
Which really shouldn't need to be explained in the first place, since all the conditionals have to deal with The Shadow Queen being on the battlefield.
What's stealth about it? Psychic Awakening went on for at least a year, everyone knows it was essentially mandatory codex updates and this will be the same.
The void drum changes are nice, I'm a bit confused about leviadon having mount options seeing it's no a hero mount? I guess it could change, but it's a bit weird calling it a mount...
The net update is actually useful and might be worth taking it on the allopexes
What's stealth about it? Psychic Awakening went on for at least a year, everyone knows it was essentially mandatory codex updates and this will be the same.
Ah, you missed the litany upthread where this isn't like PA because AoS is different.
Stealth was probably the wrong word anyway, yes. Paid DLC upgrades is more accurate, rather than the errata process they've already got.
Is it really "paid DLC upgrades" if the warscrolls are updated free anyways?
Assuming that they stick to literally everything else they've done for AoS, naturally. Even the GHB changes when dealing with warscrolls have been free.
Yup, totally free. I suppose the mount traits could be considered a 'dlc upgrade' but the sub-faction stuff is all alternate options, not upgrades. And so far they do not look to be out of the normal power range for stuff that is in the battletome, so missing out will not be a handicap. AoS campaign books are not at all like Psychic Awakening.
What's stealth about it? Psychic Awakening went on for at least a year, everyone knows it was essentially mandatory codex updates and this will be the same.
Ah, you missed the litany upthread where this isn't like PA because AoS is different.
Stealth was probably the wrong word anyway, yes. Paid DLC upgrades is more accurate, rather than the errata process they've already got.
Nobody who thinks logically for a moment would claim this isn't aos's pa.
Bunch of battletome updates and some new models over several supplements, new edition on summer.
Only thing I hope is that BR books have more factions per books than PA. Only book I have fond memories of in PA is the War of the Spider as it contained a lot of rules for various factions and models, making the price of entry not as bad. Then you have Blood of Bhaal that was basically just updating BA to have Primaris and 2 pages of Tyranid rules. As long as we get something like WotS for every BR book I am a happy woman.
It makes me a bit sad that DoK and Idoneth are not getting a proper update in this book as I feel there is so much more that can be done with these factions to put them on par with the newer tomes. I do feel like Namarti will be relegated to narrative/friendly games for now considering that they are not seeing any updates in the book.
Since DoK are getting at least one new model and the Morathi-Khaine rules, their Battletome is probably going to be one of the earlier 3.0 ones at least.
Idoneth were never going to be an 'easy fix' like DoK are though. There's a lot that needs addressing...and Namarti is a big part of that. We lack a cheap-ish Akhelian Hero(thankfully, Soulbound has granted us a concept for one in the form of the Emissary!) and any real synergy between Reavers and anyone else.
What's stealth about it? Psychic Awakening went on for at least a year, everyone knows it was essentially mandatory codex updates and this will be the same.
Ah, you missed the litany upthread where this isn't like PA because AoS is different.
Stealth was probably the wrong word anyway, yes. Paid DLC upgrades is more accurate, rather than the errata process they've already got.
Nobody who thinks logically for a moment would claim this isn't aos's pa.
Bunch of battletome updates and some new models over several supplements, new edition on summer.
One of the main (but not the only) problems with PA was that dozen of pages were devoted to printing the same marine data sheets - again and again. We should not have this issue with AOS and looking forward to reading the lore elements
Well, the best part could be the end of the book...
"The followers of Slaanesh are drawing closer to their goal, and the forces of Order cannot hold them back forever. Pre-order Broken Realms: Morathi this weekend to find out what happens! https://bit.ly/351m4D6"
What for? Like seriously, what would you even use one for? I'd much rather make Lotann not garbage.
Lotann is amazing.
Namarti aren't competitive compared to the eels, hence Lotann (and to an extent, Soulrenders) are "garbage".
Why a cheap-ish Akhelian Hero? So that we can have options that aren't just Kings. Same reason the Daughters are getting Ironscales in addition to Bloodwrack Medusae.
What's stealth about it? Psychic Awakening went on for at least a year, everyone knows it was essentially mandatory codex updates and this will be the same.
Ah, you missed the litany upthread where this isn't like PA because AoS is different.
Stealth was probably the wrong word anyway, yes. Paid DLC upgrades is more accurate, rather than the errata process they've already got.
Nobody who thinks logically for a moment would claim this isn't aos's pa.
Bunch of battletome updates and some new models over several supplements, new edition on summer.
This isn't AoS's PA. They are both a series of campaign books collectively covering all the armies. That's it. That's the only similarity.
And its up on New Zealand website, for those who spotted it the statue head on the base of the new Slaanesh hero is now clearly intentionally hollow with some broken rocks inside it
What's stealth about it? Psychic Awakening went on for at least a year, everyone knows it was essentially mandatory codex updates and this will be the same.
Ah, you missed the litany upthread where this isn't like PA because AoS is different.
Stealth was probably the wrong word anyway, yes. Paid DLC upgrades is more accurate, rather than the errata process they've already got.
Nobody who thinks logically for a moment would claim this isn't aos's pa.
Bunch of battletome updates and some new models over several supplements, new edition on summer.
This isn't AoS's PA. They are both a series of campaign books collectively covering all the armies. That's it. That's the only similarity.
They're both series of campaign books covering current time line events with army updates. They're nigh on the exact same concept.
I'd say in all probability 3rd ed next year as well.
Kanluwen wrote: Have we still got no idea what they did to my Eidolons of Mathlaan?
All we have right now are the details from the warscroll cards from Shadow and Pain.
After that we still likely won't know any book details until tomorrow when the "person flips through book on youtube" videos tend to go up.
Also its been spotted in the photos of warscroll cards in Shadow and Pain - that the Bloodstalkers (archer melusai) now have 2 shots with their bow not 1
What's stealth about it? Psychic Awakening went on for at least a year, everyone knows it was essentially mandatory codex updates and this will be the same.
Ah, you missed the litany upthread where this isn't like PA because AoS is different.
Stealth was probably the wrong word anyway, yes. Paid DLC upgrades is more accurate, rather than the errata process they've already got.
Nobody who thinks logically for a moment would claim this isn't aos's pa.
Bunch of battletome updates and some new models over several supplements, new edition on summer.
This isn't AoS's PA. They are both a series of campaign books collectively covering all the armies. That's it. That's the only similarity.
They're both series of campaign books covering current time line events with army updates. They're nigh on the exact same concept.
I'd say in all probability 3rd ed next year as well.
That's what campaign books for wargames are. That is all of GW's campaign books.
If AoS 3rd edition comes next year is mostly irrelevant; to me it seem like the "point" of broken realms is to bring back Slaanesh more than it is to pave the way to a new set of rules.
I think a point that doesn't get translated well between 40k players and AoS is that its a lot easier to introduce new factions into AoS than it is 40k, given that 40k already has a ton of factions (it just doesnt seem like it since a third of them are different flavors of marines, or plays with Marine concepts like SoB and Custodes)
- Two new sets of allegiance abilities for the Cities of Sigmar, representing the newly-annexed Anvilgard – now known as Har Kuron – and the shadowy domain of Misthåvn, each with their own abilities, artefacts, command traits, and more.
Har Kuron is its new name, now. Praise Morathi-Khaine !
Sarouan wrote: Lorewise, Anvilgard is off Sigmar's dominion :
- Two new sets of allegiance abilities for the Cities of Sigmar, representing the newly-annexed Anvilgard – now known as Har Kuron – and the shadowy domain of Misthåvn, each with their own abilities, artefacts, command traits, and more.
Har Kuron is its new name, now. Praise Morathi-Khaine !
Looking forward to reading about this - and if/how it ties into the Soulbound campaign.
I said early on and will repeat: it was a mistake to restrict them to crossbows. Never made sense for their 'hunters, rangers, and woodsmen' to use a weapon that can't be easily replenished in the field. Add to it that crossbows just aren't seen as iconic for those concepts.
Eidolon changes seem...interesting, but still don't address one of the bigger problems which is Storm has no real place while Sea lets you ignore Tidecaster restrictions.
Kanluwen wrote: Lack of Vanguard interest from GW is killing me.
I said early on and will repeat: it was a mistake to restrict them to crossbows. Never made sense for their 'hunters, rangers, and woodsmen' to use a weapon that can't be easily replenished in the field. Add to it that crossbows just aren't seen as iconic for those concepts.
Eidolon changes seem...interesting, but still don't address one of the bigger problems which is Storm has no real place while Sea lets you ignore Tidecaster restrictions.
To be fair, the Stormcast theme of the book is about the force that holds the Cities themselves, as well as buffing Liberators back up.
No doubt Vanguard will get their love in another book.
There's a literal group of monster hunters roaming the wilderness in the form of Ven Brecht's Blackwatch. I take back what I said here, there's no mention of the monster hunter bit that was shown earlier. We'll have to wait and see on that.
Here's the full product info though:
The grim Lord-Veritant Keiser Ven Brecht has assembled an elite band of Stormcast sharpshooters in order to track down servants of darkness operating in the shadows of Sigmar’s free cities. Known as the Black Watch, this retinue employs keen-scented Gryph-hounds to run heretics and traitors into the open before riddling them with a storm of lightning arrows. Guided by Ven Brecht’s centuries of bitter experience, there is no foe that can evade their relentless pursuit.
Defend the realms of Sigmar with this warscroll battalion in a box! This set allows you to hunt the enemies of Order across the realms with a variety of ranged troops, led in battle by a bold Lord-Veritant. Combine this set with the rules found in Broken Realms: Morathi, and you’ll be able to use the Ven Brecht’s Black Watch warscroll battalion – a detachment of hunters from the Anvils of the Heldenhammer capable of outflanking the foe – to your advantage! This set also saves you money compared to getting the contents inside separately.
So rather than use any of the hunters or hunter-adjacent stuff...they just gave outflank instead to Warrior and Sacrosanct Chamber stuff. And let's not forget that Gryph-Hounds are, for whatever reason, not synergized with Vanguard at all despite being pushed in their SC and also the Chamber box a few years back.
Kanluwen wrote: Lack of Vanguard interest from GW is killing me.
I said early on and will repeat: it was a mistake to restrict them to crossbows. Never made sense for their 'hunters, rangers, and woodsmen' to use a weapon that can't be easily replenished in the field. Add to it that crossbows just aren't seen as iconic for those concepts.
Eidolon changes seem...interesting, but still don't address one of the bigger problems which is Storm has no real place while Sea lets you ignore Tidecaster restrictions.
The ammunition magically replenishes so it's cool.
Kanluwen wrote: [s]So rather than use any of the hunters or hunter-adjacent stuff...they just gave outflank instead to Warrior and Sacrosanct Chamber stuff. And let's not forget that Gryph-Hounds are, for whatever reason, not synergized with Vanguard at all despite being pushed in their SC and also the Chamber box a few years back.
As I'm not playing AoS, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I am assembling war-bands for Warcry. One I intend to get is the Vanguard box because I like rangers, so I'd like the Vanguard developed further. Fluffwise, it makes sense that recon specialists would be sneaking into enemy territory like the Eightpoints. You can't mount Operation Overlord until you get more intel on the enemy. Once you've solid intel, then the Warrior Chambers can go in.
Also, giving abilities to units who thematically are an odd fit has precedence. Primaris Reivers supposedly are the CC experts, but with 9th, Assault Intercessors are introduced instead of giving the better ccw options to the reivers. So what gives? Probably a desire to force marine players to buy yet more figures since reivers are so pathetic in their intended role.
Mothman wrote: So when we all placed bets on plot, who put money on slaanesh getting pregnant and having a baby
EDIT- wait, does this make slaaneshmas canon lol
Could you mark things like this as spoilers in the future for those of us who want to read the story ourselves--you completely ruined the surprise for me.
I love how they looked at Melusai and were like 'Oh no! We gave them too many impractical expensive buffs nobody's going to use, better nuke their mortal wound attack so they're not even good solo anymore!
Mothman wrote: So when we all placed bets on plot, who put money on slaanesh getting pregnant and having a baby
EDIT- wait, does this make slaaneshmas canon lol
Could you mark things like this as spoilers in the future for those of us who want to read the story ourselves--you completely ruined the surprise for me.
Ditto. Thankfully didn’t open the other spoilered posts further explaining what this actually means.
Sarouan wrote: Lorewise, Anvilgard is off Sigmar's dominion :
- Two new sets of allegiance abilities for the Cities of Sigmar, representing the newly-annexed Anvilgard – now known as Har Kuron – and the shadowy domain of Misthåvn, each with their own abilities, artefacts, command traits, and more.
Har Kuron is its new name, now. Praise Morathi-Khaine !
So with Daughters of Khaine and CoS Dark Elves reunited...aren't they basically the old WHFB Dark Elves again? All that's basically missing now is momma's boy himself - could Har Kuron serve as a stepping stone for a fully re-imagined Dark Elf faction under Malerion's and Morathi's joint command (similar to how the pointy cowboys are re-imagined High Elves)?
Danny76 wrote: Where was Death Guard coin confirmed for December?
(The book is then, so one would assume).
In the photo with the coins you can see that the right one is a 40k one and that the faction name ends in guard, the only faction currently called guard in 40k is death guard(imperial guard has been renamed to astra militarum)
Sarouan wrote: Lorewise, Anvilgard is off Sigmar's dominion :
- Two new sets of allegiance abilities for the Cities of Sigmar, representing the newly-annexed Anvilgard – now known as Har Kuron – and the shadowy domain of Misthåvn, each with their own abilities, artefacts, command traits, and more.
Har Kuron is its new name, now. Praise Morathi-Khaine !
So with Daughters of Khaine and CoS Dark Elves reunited...aren't they basically the old WHFB Dark Elves again? All that's basically missing now is momma's boy himself - could Har Kuron serve as a stepping stone for a fully re-imagined Dark Elf faction under Malerion's and Morathi's joint command (similar to how the pointy cowboys are re-imagined High Elves)?
I doubt it, most of the lore so far suggested Morathi is very much done with the "boys".
I see GW had a cunning scheme when they released CoS; make the Anvilguard abilities truly awful so no one would play them, that way there is no one to be offended when it gets replaced!
Sarouan wrote: Lorewise, Anvilgard is off Sigmar's dominion :
- Two new sets of allegiance abilities for the Cities of Sigmar, representing the newly-annexed Anvilgard – now known as Har Kuron – and the shadowy domain of Misthåvn, each with their own abilities, artefacts, command traits, and more.
Har Kuron is its new name, now. Praise Morathi-Khaine !
So with Daughters of Khaine and CoS Dark Elves reunited...aren't they basically the old WHFB Dark Elves again? All that's basically missing now is momma's boy himself - could Har Kuron serve as a stepping stone for a fully re-imagined Dark Elf faction under Malerion's and Morathi's joint command (similar to how the pointy cowboys are re-imagined High Elves)?
I doubt it. Malekith only barely got along with his mother back in the day. There was a sort of twisted love/hate relationship going on between the two in which both knew that he required her support to stay at the top of Druuchi society, but both knew that he also hated and resented her constant manipulations of him. And family ties mixed into it as well. Unless it's shown that he still needs her for some reason, I doubt he feels any particular loyalty to her. He might show up to help her out if she was in actual danger of being completely destroyed (she is his mother, after all), but even that's not certain. And without that, I can't see him lifting a finger to help her.
Danny76 wrote: Where was Death Guard coin confirmed for December?
(The book is then, so one would assume).
In the photo with the coins you can see that the right one is a 40k one and that the faction name ends in guard, the only faction currently called guard in 40k is death guard(imperial guard has been renamed to astra militarum)
No I was asking where it was confirmed they were December, I’ve seen the coins
December is death guard ASSUMED, the logical thing would be that the third coin corresponds to the third month.
then it may be nothing, or nothing new, or just a morathi-style book without miniatures.
Oh I’m 100% with you that they are the first three. Not in question imo.
Though by the logic, the third coin would be back right, thus they’d be in January.
Assuming left to right for the second row (generally how it would be done).
When is the Death Guard book though, it is meant to be this year isn’t it. So it would make sense.
Though It would be annoying if hedonites were central in a second book as well in January.
Danny76 wrote: Where was Death Guard coin confirmed for December?
(The book is then, so one would assume).
In the photo with the coins you can see that the right one is a 40k one and that the faction name ends in guard, the only faction currently called guard in 40k is death guard(imperial guard has been renamed to astra militarum)
No I was asking where it was confirmed they were December, I’ve seen the coins
You mean codex? Warhammer community when they showed road map for this year codex releases. Blood angels and death guard for december and if schedule is same as before available right away first up in december.
Danny76 wrote: Where was Death Guard coin confirmed for December?
(The book is then, so one would assume).
In the photo with the coins you can see that the right one is a 40k one and that the faction name ends in guard, the only faction currently called guard in 40k is death guard(imperial guard has been renamed to astra militarum)
No I was asking where it was confirmed they were December, I’ve seen the coins
Sarouan wrote: Lorewise, Anvilgard is off Sigmar's dominion :
- Two new sets of allegiance abilities for the Cities of Sigmar, representing the newly-annexed Anvilgard – now known as Har Kuron – and the shadowy domain of Misthåvn, each with their own abilities, artefacts, command traits, and more.
Har Kuron is its new name, now. Praise Morathi-Khaine !
So with Daughters of Khaine and CoS Dark Elves reunited...aren't they basically the old WHFB Dark Elves again? All that's basically missing now is momma's boy himself - could Har Kuron serve as a stepping stone for a fully re-imagined Dark Elf faction under Malerion's and Morathi's joint command (similar to how the pointy cowboys are re-imagined High Elves)?
I doubt it. Malekith only barely got along with his mother back in the day. There was a sort of twisted love/hate relationship going on between the two in which both knew that he required her support to stay at the top of Druuchi society, but both knew that he also hated and resented her constant manipulations of him. And family ties mixed into it as well. Unless it's shown that he still needs her for some reason, I doubt he feels any particular loyalty to her. He might show up to help her out if she was in actual danger of being completely destroyed (she is his mother, after all), but even that's not certain. And without that, I can't see him lifting a finger to help her.
When you look at the general Pantheon of Gods AoS has, these two stand out. They aren't really "good" gods compared to the others and they've a long history of basically not getting along, on even fundamental levels, with the others. The don't get on with the High Elf brothers, they don't get on with Sigmar, they don't get on with Alarielle. So basically they are a thorn stuck out on their own.
Whilst they might not love or like each other, they are bound by blood and by circumstance. If one falls the other is at greater risk; if one rises the other can catch on the coat tails and advance their own game. They will fight over what they have, but have greater to gain standing with each other against threats from the outside.
There's a Malign Portents short story which shows them having a cordial conversation and even revelations that Malarion seems to be aware of Morathi's twist of the souls from Slaanesh - though he seems unconcerned about it if I recall right. Likely because he rules most of the Shadow Realm and she's in a tiny corner.
though could live with ironjaw" as well.
