Latro_ wrote: If real (might actually add credence to it being real) is that heavy weps seems to have two costs one for infantry and one for vehicles, this would support the fact tanks can now move and fire them without -1.
Also lascannons and missile launchers are the same cost giving the whole blast weapons going up thing.
However they are 15/20!
So a lascannon is 10pts cheaper?! because its currently 25 <--- that makes me call a bit of fake.
Also its a grainy pic but a twin-heavy bolter looks to be 30pts, that cant be right. might be my eyes but its defo not a 10 because they have listed a normal heavy bolter as a 10 and clearly isnt a 2...
EDIT: Unless! heavy bolters are now much much better (like 4-5 shots) (didnt think of this) <--- but even then why are they then the same cost for infantry as now... IT MAKE NO SENSSE I TELL YOU either GW blunder or the romulan memes are coming out
From a quick look: Twin Multi-melta entry, weapon only: 50 pts.
Eradicator model, assault twin multimelta + tough infantry body + advance and shoot = 40 pts.
I don't know what to think about the leaks honestly.
tneva82 wrote: So is twin lascannon that isn't going up.
Maybe it's GW's bone it throws for hordes that are getting otherwise murdered in 9th
well if to be believed assault cannons went down in pts (and you see a lot more of those) so die gribblies i guess
So from these rules a laspred goes from 175 DOWN to 170 and its much much better with new move and fire buffs
A land raider goes from 277 UP to 285 and is exactly the same mocing and shooting wise
There is no way GW wouldn't give the new Primaris Captain and Lieutenant a special name or at least call them something like Primaris Captain in Bladeguard Armour like with the Gravis version
And they shouldn't be the old ones as there is no reason to have them together with the Indomitus stuff
nfe wrote: My gut feeling is it's genuine but well out if date. Primaris Chaplain on Bike in the box?
Doesn't have to be in the box, the Invader ATV and the Firestrike Servo-Turret are also listed there.
I think thats more of a Indomitus release window stuff
(Necron Lokhust Destroyer and Canoptek Doomstalker are also listed in the Necron half going from the letters we can see)
So for the funs i took this possible leak pts list and applied it to my somewhat balanced common or garden non tournament bit of everything marine army i run.
Goes up 124pts so actually, kinda as expected.
red = up by more than 20ish pts
orange = up by less than 20ish pts
green = down
jivardi wrote: I really hope the leak about SC detachment allowing a free detachment if the HQ is a warlord pans out. 6 CP for Morty to be held in SR is a lot. I'd rather not start the game with 4 or 5 CP.
You could just, ya know, not use Primarchs in a Matched Play game. If you want to use Primarch, you pay a CP penalty, it's that simple.
Weren't you one of the posters who was complaining about having to pay for extra detachments?
If you want to soup you pay a penalty, it's that simple.
No, I wasn't? I actually proposed a fixed CP per game size system a while back. The change was to make stratagems more limited though rather than souping.
I like this change. I like it a lot. I like that it heavily hurts bringing Primarchs and other Lords of War. I dislike that it special snowflakes Knights to avoid the drawbacks, but overall the system is good.
You're seriously saying Guilliman Castle didn't warp the meta? Or how Knights alone destroy any notion of "TAC" lists since every list has to be tooled to handle a Knight on the off chance you come across someone with pure knights, which in turn warps the meta to making vehicles such as Rhinos or Leman Russes (aka no 4++ save) unviable?
BaconCatBug wrote: I like that it heavily hurts bringing Primarchs and other Lords of War.
Why?
BaconCatBug wrote: I dislike that it special snowflakes Knights to avoid the drawbacks...
It has to. Knights are an army unto themselves, unlike Bobby G or Magnus. They have to function as an army and thus need special rules to allow them that as they are not normal units.
Hey wait a sec... why isn't the Particle Whip on the list of blast weapons?
And the more I think about it, the more it seems that this edition of 40K was written for the tournament crowd. It has smaller boards, ITC-style secondary objectives, 5 turn hard-limit for matched play games, rules that punish any unit above 5 models, a strat that gets you out of tri-pointing, more command points (and everyone starts with the same amount of command points). New rules that make hordes less viable. Everything's going up on points to make smaller games.
Really overall this edition is a fantastic example of two common GW phenomena:
1. Pendulum swinging - They've swung the pendulum hard to tournament gaming, so much so that everything is too focused on it. 2. Hanlon's Razor - Again GW prove that they are not evil, just stupid, or rather gullible and too trusting in this instance, as they brought on a lot of big name tournament players for play testing and then apparently just reformed the game to suit their preferred way of playing.
All we need now is a big FAQ to change things out of this mess to demonstrate GW's third major attribute (changing horses mid-race) and we'll have completed the cycle). In the meantime we have to suffer through what should best be called Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition for a little while longer.
Now I'm certain some big brain is going to come in here and say "But HBYMCA! Haven't you always said that the game should be geared towards tournaments? Now you're complaining about the thing you wanted!!!eleven" to which the answer of course is no, what I've always said is that a balanced game with a tight set of rules benefits everyone. Never said that writing the game for tournaments would benefit everyone. Certainly doesn't benefit horde armies, as we've seen. Or really anyone who isn't a Marine (and I'm a Marine player!!!).
tneva82 wrote: Maybe GW figures necrons are miserable enough without such a nerf.
To be fair we're getting a new monolith, with new rules which will likely change the particle whip. The new version might end up being a blast weapon, but no reason to mess with the old one when it's only gonna exist for a month or two into 9th.
The Bolt Sniper Rifle is on the list of blast weapons.
Seems that from GW's perspective that anything that can fire an explosive round is now a "blast" weapon, even if its other firing mode/s are decidedly not explosive (Krak, Executioner Rounds, etc.). Par for the course really...
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Bolt Sniper Rifle is on the list of blast weapons.
Seems that from GW's perspective that anything that can fire an explosive round is now a "blast" weapon, even if its other firing mode/s are decidedly not explosive (Krak, Executioner Rounds, etc.). Par for the course really...
probably just got someones kid to find all weapons with random numbers and said - yeah that will do
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Bolt Sniper Rifle is on the list of blast weapons.
Seems that from GW's perspective that anything that can fire an explosive round is now a "blast" weapon, even if its other firing mode/s are decidedly not explosive (Krak, Executioner Rounds, etc.). Par for the course really...
So you would have preferred them to list them by weapon mode?
Bolt rifle - hyperfrag round...
Seeing it fires basically frag grenades which are blast weapons not that weird it's blast weapon too.
tneva82 wrote: So is twin lascannon that isn't going up.
Maybe it's GW's bone it throws for hordes that are getting otherwise murdered in 9th
Is your middle name stretch armstrong? Or did you forget lascannons were kind of meh? Or do you not realize heavy bolters are way up? Did you also see the WW went from 65 to 125?
If it came from someone who maybe got his hands on a copy of indomitus, that could be a thing, but:
1) It's too early for someone to have a copy.
2) The watermarks clearly say that this is not the indomitus book.
We are looking at the images of a random document that could be or could not be official.
Forging something like that would be extremely easy.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Hey wait a sec... why isn't the Particle Whip on the list of blast weapons?
And the more I think about it, the more it seems that this edition of 40K was written for the tournament crowd. It has smaller boards, ITC-style secondary objectives, 5 turn hard-limit for matched play games, rules that punish any unit above 5 models, a strat that gets you out of tri-pointing, more command points (and everyone starts with the same amount of command points). New rules that make hordes less viable. Everything's going up on points to make smaller games.
Really overall this edition is a fantastic example of two common GW phenomena:
1. Pendulum swinging - They've swung the pendulum hard to tournament gaming, so much so that everything is too focused on it.
2. Hanlon's Razor - Again GW prove that they are not evil, just stupid, or rather gullible and too trusting in this instance, as they brought on a lot of big name tournament players for play testing and then apparently just reformed the game to suit their preferred way of playing.
All we need now is a big FAQ to change things out of this mess to demonstrate GW's third major attribute (changing horses mid-race) and we'll have completed the cycle). In the meantime we have to suffer through what should best be called Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition for a little while longer.
Now I'm certain some big brain is going to come in here and say "But HBYMCA! Haven't you always said that the game should be geared towards tournaments? Now you're complaining about the thing you wanted!!!eleven" to which the answer of course is no, what I've always said is that a balanced game with a tight set of rules benefits everyone. Never said that writing the game for tournaments would benefit everyone. Certainly doesn't benefit horde armies, as we've seen. Or really anyone who isn't a Marine (and I'm a Marine player!!!).
But that is good right? Narrative will have different missions, will probably still be played on 6x4 tables, not worry too much about CPs (I often played solo games with fixed 10CP per side so that it didn't hamstring my list building and I could theme accordingly)
A ruleset designed for tournament play needs to be tighter, and that should trickle down as a better result for casual/narrative play. I'm all on board for that.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
BrianDavion wrote: another reason to be skeptical is the ATV and turret are listed as part of the indomatus set, but they're specificly NOT from the indomatus set and are something else coming down the line (presumably with a codex and a multipart release of the indomatus units)
diepotato47 wrote: Interesting that the ATV and Turret are listed with the Indomitus box...
makes me IMMEDIATLY skeptical about that being legit
Warhammer Community wrote:Oh, you thought we were done showing you awesome stuff for today? Think again. Now that you’ve seen all the amazing miniatures crammed into the best Warhammer 40,000 boxed set ever made, we wanted to show you some of the other goodies that we couldn’t fit in…
Warhammer Community wrote:Who do you think is winning the battle of the big guns? All of these kits will be available as push fit models – which is good because you’re going to want a lot of them. We can safely say these are hardly the last new kits you’ll see for both Primaris Space Marines and Necrons, including multipart kits, big centrepiece models, and more vehicles. Stay tuned for more information as soon as we have it!
I'd be shocked if these things weren't available at the same time as the Indomitus set. The points values are likely contained within the "Edge of Silence" booklet that is in the Indomitus set as well.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
Well, now you have my attention. Test brackets?
Playtester groups. Mournival is one of two(Infinity Circuit being the other) that tend to get a "Thanks to..." note in the front of books.
If it came from someone who maybe got his hands on a copy of indomitus, that could be a thing, but:
1) It's too early for someone to have a copy. 2) The watermarks clearly say that this is not the indomitus book.
We are looking at the images of a random document that could be or could not be official.
Forging something like that would be extremely easy.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
Thank you for the info, this confirms that this is a fake.
You just need to apply a bit of logic and it is clear at this point.
Applying a watermark with the name of a testing group is a nice move from a forger to lend credibility to the fake document but...
If GW is really sending watermarked versions to each different test group to avoid leaks, it means that she is doing a different print run of these for each testing group? Lol, seriously?
This is clearly impossible. What could be is that they only distribute the test rules digitally to the groups and apply a watermark to each different file sent to trace leaks. This is more likely, but...
... our nice forger here thought that it was cool to send the leaks as photos of printed documents, Printed in colors to booth.
If the leak had been a digital image, then I could still have a doubt, but since the leak is a photo then this is 100% fake, because for it to exist it implies the existence of a print run for that specific watermark.
BrianDavion wrote: another reason to be skeptical is the ATV and turret are listed as part of the indomatus set, but they're specificly NOT from the indomatus set and are something else coming down the line (presumably with a codex and a multipart release of the indomatus units)
diepotato47 wrote: Interesting that the ATV and Turret are listed with the Indomitus box...
makes me IMMEDIATLY skeptical about that being legit
Warhammer Community wrote:Oh, you thought we were done showing you awesome stuff for today? Think again. Now that you’ve seen all the amazing miniatures crammed into the best Warhammer 40,000 boxed set ever made, we wanted to show you some of the other goodies that we couldn’t fit in…
Warhammer Community wrote:Who do you think is winning the battle of the big guns? All of these kits will be available as push fit models – which is good because you’re going to want a lot of them. We can safely say these are hardly the last new kits you’ll see for both Primaris Space Marines and Necrons, including multipart kits, big centrepiece models, and more vehicles. Stay tuned for more information as soon as we have it!
I'd be shocked if these things weren't available at the same time as the Indomitus set. The points values are likely contained within the "Edge of Silence" booklet that is in the Indomitus set as well.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
Well, now you have my attention. Test brackets?
Playtester groups. Mournival is one of two(Infinity Circuit being the other) that tend to get a "Thanks to..." note in the front of books.
Mournival is the narrative focused group I believe as well
If it came from someone who maybe got his hands on a copy of indomitus, that could be a thing, but:
1) It's too early for someone to have a copy.
2) The watermarks clearly say that this is not the indomitus book.
We are looking at the images of a random document that could be or could not be official.
Forging something like that would be extremely easy.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
Thank you for the info, this confirms that this is a fake.
You just need to apply a bit of logic and it is clear at this point.
Applying a watermark with the name of a testing group is a nice move from a forger to lend credibility to the fake document but...
If GW is really sending watermarked versions to each different test group to avoid leaks, it means that she is doing a different print run of these for each testing group? Lol, seriously?
This is clearly impossible. What could be is that they only distribute the test rules digitally to the groups and apply a watermark to each different file sent to trace leaks. This is more likely, but...
... our nice forger here thought that it was cool to send the leaks as photos of printed documents, Printed in colors to booth.
If the leak had been a digital image, then I could still have a doubt, but since the leak is a photo then this is 100% fake, because for it to exist it implies the existence of a print run for that specific watermark.
Or they printed the digital document out for ease of reference? Not saying it isn't a fake but the amount of mental backflips you needed to do there is a bit extreme.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Bolt Sniper Rifle is on the list of blast weapons.
Seems that from GW's perspective that anything that can fire an explosive round is now a "blast" weapon, even if its other firing mode/s are decidedly not explosive (Krak, Executioner Rounds, etc.). Par for the course really...
So you would have preferred them to list them by weapon mode?
Bolt rifle - hyperfrag round...
Seeing it fires basically frag grenades which are blast weapons not that weird it's blast weapon too.
The introduction at the top covers multiple mode weapons, saying that those models that make a random number of attacks gain blast. I don't see the problem.
If it came from someone who maybe got his hands on a copy of indomitus, that could be a thing, but:
1) It's too early for someone to have a copy.
2) The watermarks clearly say that this is not the indomitus book.
We are looking at the images of a random document that could be or could not be official.
Forging something like that would be extremely easy.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
Thank you for the info, this confirms that this is a fake.
You just need to apply a bit of logic and it is clear at this point.
Applying a watermark with the name of a testing group is a nice move from a forger to lend credibility to the fake document but...
If GW is really sending watermarked versions to each different test group to avoid leaks, it means that she is doing a different print run of these for each testing group? Lol, seriously?
This is clearly impossible. What could be is that they only distribute the test rules digitally to the groups and apply a watermark to each different file sent to trace leaks. This is more likely, but...
... our nice forger here thought that it was cool to send the leaks as photos of printed documents, Printed in colors to booth.
If the leak had been a digital image, then I could still have a doubt, but since the leak is a photo then this is 100% fake, because for it to exist it implies the existence of a print run for that specific watermark.
All the images are photos of screens or did I miss something?
Besides, getting copies printed for the different groups is one digital printrun. Did you never receive a mailed ad with your name on it? This is pretty basic.
If it came from someone who maybe got his hands on a copy of indomitus, that could be a thing, but:
1) It's too early for someone to have a copy.
2) The watermarks clearly say that this is not the indomitus book.
We are looking at the images of a random document that could be or could not be official.
Forging something like that would be extremely easy.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
Thank you for the info, this confirms that this is a fake.
You just need to apply a bit of logic and it is clear at this point.
Applying a watermark with the name of a testing group is a nice move from a forger to lend credibility to the fake document but...
If GW is really sending watermarked versions to each different test group to avoid leaks, it means that she is doing a different print run of these for each testing group? Lol, seriously?
This is clearly impossible. What could be is that they only distribute the test rules digitally to the groups and apply a watermark to each different file sent to trace leaks. This is more likely, but...
... our nice forger here thought that it was cool to send the leaks as photos of printed documents, Printed in colors to booth.
If the leak had been a digital image, then I could still have a doubt, but since the leak is a photo then this is 100% fake, because for it to exist it implies the existence of a print run for that specific watermark.
What are you talking about? The leaks are photos of a computer screen. Because impr screen doesnt exist or something.
Thank you for the info, this confirms that this is a fake.
You just need to apply a bit of logic and it is clear at this point.
Applying a watermark with the name of a testing group is a nice move from a forger to lend credibility to the fake document but...
If GW is really sending watermarked versions to each different test group to avoid leaks, it means that she is doing a different print run of these for each testing group? Lol, seriously?
This is clearly impossible. What could be is that they only distribute the test rules digitally to the groups and apply a watermark to each different file sent to trace leaks. This is more likely, but...
... our nice forger here thought that it was cool to send the leaks as photos of printed documents, Printed in colors to booth.
If the leak had been a digital image, then I could still have a doubt, but since the leak is a photo then this is 100% fake, because for it to exist it implies the existence of a print run for that specific watermark.
Spoiler:
That isn't a "printed document". There's a toolbar from a computer screen down at the bottom, and it's literally a picture of a computer screen.
Is there a specific image you're referring to? Because all the ones I've looked at in this thread have that kind of look to them--just some crop out the toolbar.
jivardi wrote: Watched the Vanguard Tactics video about "coherency". Took me 5 minutes to understand it.
They did a very good job covering various conga lines, how terrain interacts with the coherency rules and what the best method is to remove models without breaking coherency.
I think people are screeching harder than they need to.
Skared Cast also put up a bat rep using the new coherency rules. Didn't seem to make the game slower or harder to understand.
that video was aweful... "hey no problem loosing 4 models cause of one casualty. rule works really great, no downside at all AND you can still congoline. really fantastic"
and also look at this: "i've trapped 5 scions with 12 Deathguards with jumpacks by perfectly surrounding them. coherency isnt a problem cause look: i've managed the charge and pile in so perfectly, i can alternate between a thunderhammer and a regular marine... and i've also made sure the Thunderhammers are exactly 2" apart from each other. now i can take losses without worrying about coherancy! See?! no problem at all, works really good. You just have to make this perfect charge in a vacuum and make certain 10 things are done in the right way and VOILA! gud rul"
BrianDavion wrote: another reason to be skeptical is the ATV and turret are listed as part of the indomatus set, but they're specificly NOT from the indomatus set and are something else coming down the line (presumably with a codex and a multipart release of the indomatus units)
diepotato47 wrote: Interesting that the ATV and Turret are listed with the Indomitus box...
makes me IMMEDIATLY skeptical about that being legit
Warhammer Community wrote:Oh, you thought we were done showing you awesome stuff for today? Think again. Now that you’ve seen all the amazing miniatures crammed into the best Warhammer 40,000 boxed set ever made, we wanted to show you some of the other goodies that we couldn’t fit in…
Warhammer Community wrote:Who do you think is winning the battle of the big guns? All of these kits will be available as push fit models – which is good because you’re going to want a lot of them. We can safely say these are hardly the last new kits you’ll see for both Primaris Space Marines and Necrons, including multipart kits, big centrepiece models, and more vehicles. Stay tuned for more information as soon as we have it!
I'd be shocked if these things weren't available at the same time as the Indomitus set. The points values are likely contained within the "Edge of Silence" booklet that is in the Indomitus set as well.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
Well, now you have my attention. Test brackets?
Playtester groups. Mournival is one of two(Infinity Circuit being the other) that tend to get a "Thanks to..." note in the front of books.
Mournival is the narrative focused group I believe as well
If it came from someone who maybe got his hands on a copy of indomitus, that could be a thing, but:
1) It's too early for someone to have a copy. 2) The watermarks clearly say that this is not the indomitus book.
We are looking at the images of a random document that could be or could not be official.
Forging something like that would be extremely easy.
The warter mark is "mournival" which is the name of one of the GW test brackets, it could add some credibility to it and means it's not related to the indomitus box.
Thank you for the info, this confirms that this is a fake.
You just need to apply a bit of logic and it is clear at this point.
Applying a watermark with the name of a testing group is a nice move from a forger to lend credibility to the fake document but...
If GW is really sending watermarked versions to each different test group to avoid leaks, it means that she is doing a different print run of these for each testing group? Lol, seriously?
This is clearly impossible. What could be is that they only distribute the test rules digitally to the groups and apply a watermark to each different file sent to trace leaks. This is more likely, but...
... our nice forger here thought that it was cool to send the leaks as photos of printed documents, Printed in colors to booth.
If the leak had been a digital image, then I could still have a doubt, but since the leak is a photo then this is 100% fake, because for it to exist it implies the existence of a print run for that specific watermark.
Or they printed the digital document out for ease of reference? Not saying it isn't a fake but the amount of mental backflips you needed to do there is a bit extreme.
You wouldn't print them in color.
By the way, upon closer inspection they ARE digital. You can see a cursor on the second image, so the image was a photo of a screen. You can also read the page number "5", so it is a document which starts straight with the points.
Spoletta wrote: [
If the leak had been a digital image, then I could still have a doubt, but since the leak is a photo then this is 100% fake, because for it to exist it implies the existence of a print run for that specific watermark.
Now i don't know where you live but here we have these things called "printers". And colour ones at that.
jivardi wrote: Watched the Vanguard Tactics video about "coherency". Took me 5 minutes to understand it.
They did a very good job covering various conga lines, how terrain interacts with the coherency rules and what the best method is to remove models without breaking coherency.
I think people are screeching harder than they need to.
Skared Cast also put up a bat rep using the new coherency rules. Didn't seem to make the game slower or harder to understand.
that video was aweful... "hey no problem loosing 4 models cause of one casualty. rule works really great, no downside at all AND you can still congoline. really fantastic"
and also look at this: "i've trapped 5 scions with 12 Deathguards by perfectly surrounding them. coherency isnt a problem cause look: i've managed the charge and pile in so perfectly, i can alternate between a thunderhammer and a regular marine... and i've also made sure the Thunderhammers are exactly 2" apart from each other. now i can take losses without worrying about coherancy! See?! no problem at all, works really good. You just have to make this perfect charge in a vacuum and make certain 10 things are done in the right way and VOILA! gud rul"
"Want to know what's coming on Day 1 of #New40K? Want to know when Day 1 even is? Tune in from 3:30pm (BST) to find out! We'll also be looking at the Thousand Sons in new edition but you don't need to be psychic, it's all on Warhammer TV."
Sounds like they're outlining the release date today and maybe the launch materials/item list.
Dudeface wrote: "Want to know what's coming on Day 1 of #New40K? Want to know when Day 1 even is? Tune in from 3:30pm (BST) to find out! We'll also be looking at the Thousand Sons in new edition but you don't need to be psychic, it's all on Warhammer TV."
Sounds like they're outlining the release date today and maybe the launch materials/item list.
So help me god if they only preview stratagems again...
Sasori wrote: Possible Necron leaks. This adds up pretty close to the Napkin math I did the other day, but this person could have done the same thing.
Spoiler:
I always feel a bit sorry for them when stuff like this happens and things get out just before they get to reveal things themselves, but if they didn't drip feed it for so goddamn long it might not happen.
I think the fact that we are seeing the "aftershow" models indicates that these are likely going to be in a starter set or something that gets released right after Indomitus.
Sasori wrote: I think the fact that we are seeing the "aftershow" models indicates that these are likely going to be in a starter set or something that gets released right after Indomitus.
Or that they're putting all of the Easy to Build stuff into one easy to find place and they'll be placed in displays alongside of Indomitus or whatever starter set comes.
I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
I'll still be buying both books though. For once I wont be getting the new box as I dont collect either army (and have too many others to start a new one!)
Spoletta wrote: I could be wrong here, but when they said that they would release new points for all the factions, I didn't think that we would have to pay for them.
They said they'd be available in the app, so does the app cost money or does it just render the field manual obsolete out the gates?
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
The rulebook is in the box set, the chapter approved includes tournament circuit matched play missions (could have put them in the rule book imo) and points updates.
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
Nope. That's just missions and objectives.
The rules... so far its the box or nothing. Unsurprising, else why do the 'launch box' this way?
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
The rulebook is in the box set, the chapter approved includes tournament circuit matched play missions (could have put them in the rule book imo) and points updates.
well that sucks.
rememebering back to 8th launch they did charge for points then as well thinking about it - we all had to buy the indexes. My Renegades and Heretics are still using theirs
Way to starter a new edition - "new fabulous edition with streamlined and improved rules - just buy these 4 books to play"
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
The rulebook is in the box set, the chapter approved includes tournament circuit matched play missions (could have put them in the rule book imo) and points updates.
well that sucks.
rememebering back to 8th launch they did charge for points then as well thinking about it - we all had to buy the indexes. My Renegades and Heretics are still using theirs
You had to buy the Indexes for 8th edition because the 7th edition codexes wouldn't work with the game...
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
The rulebook is in the box set, the chapter approved includes tournament circuit matched play missions (could have put them in the rule book imo) and points updates.
well that sucks.
rememebering back to 8th launch they did charge for points then as well thinking about it - we all had to buy the indexes. My Renegades and Heretics are still using theirs
You had to buy the Indexes for 8th edition because the 7th edition codexes wouldn't work with the game...
neither will the points of the current 'dexs work with 9th
As i recall regarding the app, they said if you purchase the physical rules you get a code or some way of unlocking the content in the app. So, buy chapter approved for 17 quid and then tell the app you bought it and boom, your app is updated with the most up to date points values.
I mean, we are meant to find out more about the app this week so we will see i guess.
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
The rulebook is in the box set, the chapter approved includes tournament circuit matched play missions (could have put them in the rule book imo) and points updates.
well that sucks.
rememebering back to 8th launch they did charge for points then as well thinking about it - we all had to buy the indexes. My Renegades and Heretics are still using theirs
You had to buy the Indexes for 8th edition because the 7th edition codexes wouldn't work with the game...
neither will the points of the current 'dexs work with 9th
It is entirely possible to play a game of 9th edition with the 8th edition points, just like it is possible to play 8th edition without the points updates in Chapter Approved.
Necronmaniac05 wrote: As i recall regarding the app, they said if you purchase the physical rules you get a code or some way of unlocking the content in the app. So, buy chapter approved for 17 quid and then tell the app you bought it and boom, your app is updated with the most up to date points values.
I mean, we are meant to find out more about the app this week so we will see i guess.
So you can rock up to a GW event with GW app with a list sanctioned by GW with incorrect points because you didn't but chapter approved?
Rinion wrote: Didn't they say the rules would be free?
The "rules" will be free, yes. If it's anything like 8th edition the free rules don't actually give you enough material to play the game in the way the vast majority play it. The rules for detachments and missions were missing from the free 8th edition rules, for example.
Im probably not going to bother getting the extra books. The missions will be handy to have, but they will be endlessly reviewed online - not to mention the points will be easy enough to find anyway.
Will likely just wait to get the app (depending on value) and go from there.
As for the rulebook... If i dont get the box set i might get a digital copy of it later down the line once it is released separately.
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
The rulebook is in the box set, the chapter approved includes tournament circuit matched play missions (could have put them in the rule book imo) and points updates.
well that sucks.
rememebering back to 8th launch they did charge for points then as well thinking about it - we all had to buy the indexes. My Renegades and Heretics are still using theirs
You had to buy the Indexes for 8th edition because the 7th edition codexes wouldn't work with the game...
neither will the points of the current 'dexs work with 9th
It is entirely possible to play a game of 9th edition with the 8th edition points, just like it is possible to play 8th edition without the points updates in Chapter Approved.
Sure - there's nothing to stop you doing that in the comfort of your own home with mates - doubt you'd get much truck playing someone in a pick-up game whos using 9th pts though
Due to the nature of Open War cards, the existing ones will still work fine, or you can shuffle the old and new decks together to get a lot more variety.
I've had a lot of great games with the 8th ed. Open War deck, so I'll happily pick up the 9th one to expand that. It's one of the few GW products that won't get replaced by a new version in a year.
Not sure how necessary the core rulebook will be - hopefully the appendix will be included with the basic rules in the app.
So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
Points values and a tournament mission pack.
Asmodai wrote: Due to the nature of Open War cards, the existing ones will still work fine, or you can shuffle the old and new decks together to get a lot more variety.
I'm sure the current ones will work fine, but these ones will probably be different, and have a different design which makes them less random when mixed in with the old ones.
Asmodai wrote: I've had a lot of great games with the 8th ed. Open War deck, so I'll happily pick up the 9th one to expand that. It's one of the few GW products that won't get replaced by a new version in a year.
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
The rulebook is in the box set, the chapter approved includes tournament circuit matched play missions (could have put them in the rule book imo) and points updates.
well that sucks.
rememebering back to 8th launch they did charge for points then as well thinking about it - we all had to buy the indexes. My Renegades and Heretics are still using theirs
You had to buy the Indexes for 8th edition because the 7th edition codexes wouldn't work with the game...
neither will the points of the current 'dexs work with 9th
It is entirely possible to play a game of 9th edition with the 8th edition points, just like it is possible to play 8th edition without the points updates in Chapter Approved.
Sure - there's nothing to stop you doing that in the comfort of your own home with mates - doubt you'd get much truck playing someone in a pick-up game whos using 9th pts though
And yet again, you've missed the entire point. You literally could NOT play 8th edition with a 7th edition codex because THE RULES WERE NOT COMPATIBLE
Asmodai wrote: Due to the nature of Open War cards, the existing ones will still work fine, or you can shuffle the old and new decks together to get a lot more variety.
I'm sure the current ones will work fine, but these ones will probably be different, and have a different design which makes them less random when mixed in with the old ones.
True.
Mine are sleeved anyway to protect against shuffle wear.
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
Kinetochore wrote: I get the splitting of the points and missions in the CA updates but it looks like a bit of a cash grab with a new Edition.
Honestly, I'm a bit more puzzled by why the main rulebook isn't dropping separately.
Is there a main rulebook though? I'm a bit confused - I was interpreting it as the tournament book had all the rules in it, the other book the points and the narrative one the rules for the campaign stuff
The rulebook is in the box set, the chapter approved includes tournament circuit matched play missions (could have put them in the rule book imo) and points updates.
well that sucks.
rememebering back to 8th launch they did charge for points then as well thinking about it - we all had to buy the indexes. My Renegades and Heretics are still using theirs
You had to buy the Indexes for 8th edition because the 7th edition codexes wouldn't work with the game...
neither will the points of the current 'dexs work with 9th
It is entirely possible to play a game of 9th edition with the 8th edition points, just like it is possible to play 8th edition without the points updates in Chapter Approved.
Sure - there's nothing to stop you doing that in the comfort of your own home with mates - doubt you'd get much truck playing someone in a pick-up game whos using 9th pts though
And yet again, you've missed the entire point. You literally could NOT play 8th edition with a 7th edition codex because THE RULES WERE NOT COMPATIBLE
I totally get where you are coming from. it is entirely possible to play 9th with 8th rules and impossible to play 8th with 7th rules. You are indeed correct. If you ever want to play with someone else and have a balanced game you will need the new points though.
Im going to stop being a pedant and clogging up the discussion now
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
I foresee the core rulebook launching the week after Indomitus.
So, of course, GW muddies the water with the word "can". Is "This detachment can only include one PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH or SUPREME COMMANDER unit, and this unit must be selected as your WARLORD" exclusive or inclusive? In other words, if I take this detachment, can I include a random Baneblade in the Lord of War slot or not? Does it have to be my WARLORD? If it was only limited to PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH, or SUPREME COMMANDER units, would it not say "must"?
Also the lack of Oxford Comma and semicolons upsets me.
BaconCatBug wrote: So, of course, GW muddies the water with the word "can". Is "This detachment can only include one PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH or SUPREME COMMANDER unit, and this unit must be selected as your WARLORD" exclusive or inclusive? In other words, if I take this detachment, can I include a random Baneblade in the Lord of War slot or not? Does it have to be my WARLORD? If it was only limited to PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH, or SUPREME COMMANDER units, would it not say "must"?
Also the lack of Oxford Comma and semicolons upsets me.
I think you're trying way too hard.
"Can only include unit X, this unit must be your warlord" leaves little to guess.
So, of course, GW muddies the water with the word "can". Is "This detachment can only include one PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH or SUPREME COMMANDER unit, and this unit must be selected as your WARLORD" exclusive or inclusive? In other words, if I take this detachment, can I include a random Baneblade in the Lord of War slot or not? Does it have to be my WARLORD? If it was only limited to PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH, or SUPREME COMMANDER units, would it not say "must"?
Also the lack of Oxford Comma and semicolons upsets me.
*shrug* I guess if you want to make a BB your warlord.
Why is a multimelta more expensive than a lascannon? What possible reason is there for that? S9 is way more valuable than an additional point of AP (in practice) And 48" range is way more valuable than the melta rule no one can ever get in range to use.
Tyran wrote: Supreme Detachment is basically the Primarch Detachement.
Is Ghaz a LoW? Because he could go in there if so.
It has both the LoW and HQ icon doesn't it? So potentially they could FAQ units like Ghaz or the Swarmlord into having the SUPREME COMMANDER keyword too.
Not only does the Supreme Command Detachment make it so you can take the Primarchs as your Warlord and still get a free Patrol/Battalion/Brigade but if you for whatever reason didn't want to take one of these detachments you can st least still get the Primarchs without a CP cost this way when they are your Warlord
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
I told all y'all to stop buying their printed material because of crap like this. They saw they could sell things in total fluctuation of quality like the whole Psychic Awakening series. Now they think they're gonna make a decent amount of money this way.
Oh they will make a whole lump of money this way, them being dumb is no excuse for pirating still.
BaconCatBug wrote: So, of course, GW muddies the water with the word "can". Is "This detachment can only include one PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH or SUPREME COMMANDER unit, and this unit must be selected as your WARLORD" exclusive or inclusive? In other words, if I take this detachment, can I include a random Baneblade in the Lord of War slot or not? Does it have to be my WARLORD? If it was only limited to PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH, or SUPREME COMMANDER units, would it not say "must"?
Also the lack of Oxford Comma and semicolons upsets me.
I think you're trying way too hard.
"Can only include unit X, this unit must be your warlord" leaves little to guess.
Exactly, really can vrs must?
It's pretty clear for a unit to be in a supreme command detachment it is required to have Primarcch, Demon Primarch or Supreme Commander keyword to be taken in this detachment, Don't remeber seeing any of those on a Baneblade datasheet, but keep tilting at those straw men dude
Given the situation with Covid 19 you would hope for those ordering in GW/Warhammer stores will be given a heads up on price and some form of waiting list to prevent overcrowding on the actual pre order day. I very much doubt that will happen though.
Doohicky wrote: I always play matched play with my friends but it is far from competitive
Exactly. Playing with points, or "matched play" has been the standard way of playing 40K for decades. The idea that matched play is suddenly competitive only is silly.
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
I told all y'all to stop buying their printed material because of crap like this. They saw they could sell things in total fluctuation of quality like the whole Psychic Awakening series. Now they think they're gonna make a decent amount of money this way.
Oh they will make a whole lump of money this way, them being dumb is no excuse for pirating still.
You give GW an inch and they take well over a mile. That's all buying their printed material does. They're not the ones being dumb here.
"I want to buy a rulebook"
"we're locking it behind a box set for now"
"ok I have to wait 2 weeks"
You either wait a hypothetical 2 weeks or pirate it, it's dumb of GW to present their customers with those options, not the consumer for wanting to support a company.
I can see GK and Tzeentch having a field day with psychic objectives. Would be messed up for Tau and Necron since the only way to interact with them is to kill the psyker outright.
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
I told all y'all to stop buying their printed material because of crap like this. They saw they could sell things in total fluctuation of quality like the whole Psychic Awakening series. Now they think they're gonna make a decent amount of money this way.
Oh they will make a whole lump of money this way, them being dumb is no excuse for pirating still.
You give GW an inch and they take well over a mile. That's all buying their printed material does. They're not the ones being dumb here.
"I want to buy a rulebook"
"we're locking it behind a box set for now"
"ok I have to wait 2 weeks"
You either wait a hypothetical 2 weeks or pirate it, it's dumb of GW to present their customers with those options, not the consumer for wanting to support a company.
It's likely launching a week later just to split it from the Indomitus release window. Core rules will likely be up day one, so waiting a whole week to buy expanded rules doesn't exactly rustle my jimmies.
Oh they will make a whole lump of money this way, them being dumb is no excuse for pirating still.
Not an excuse, but it is a natural consequence of such a release schedule. Who can afford to play when they have to buy a ~$300 box for rules? Or why make them wait a week or more for an actual book and only people able to afford the box have rules?
So, of course, GW muddies the water with the word "can". Is "This detachment can only include one PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH or SUPREME COMMANDER unit, and this unit must be selected as your WARLORD" exclusive or inclusive? In other words, if I take this detachment, can I include a random Baneblade in the Lord of War slot or not? Does it have to be my WARLORD? If it was only limited to PRIMARCH, DAEMON PRIMARCH, or SUPREME COMMANDER units, would it not say "must"?
Also the lack of Oxford Comma and semicolons upsets me.
Do you honestly try to parody yourself harder with each post?
It literally uses the phrase can only which is another way of saying must.
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
I told all y'all to stop buying their printed material because of crap like this. They saw they could sell things in total fluctuation of quality like the whole Psychic Awakening series. Now they think they're gonna make a decent amount of money this way.
Oh they will make a whole lump of money this way, them being dumb is no excuse for pirating still.
You give GW an inch and they take well over a mile. That's all buying their printed material does. They're not the ones being dumb here.
"I want to buy a rulebook"
"we're locking it behind a box set for now"
"ok I have to wait 2 weeks"
You either wait a hypothetical 2 weeks or pirate it, it's dumb of GW to present their customers with those options, not the consumer for wanting to support a company.
I don't defend GW's decision to make the core rules not separately available on release week, however if you can't wait (presumably) an extra week or two to get the book then that reflects a lot worse on you than GW.
If the separate book release is over a month then I can sympathize.
parakuribo wrote: I can see GK and Tzeentch having a field day with psychic objectives. Would be messed up for Tau and Necron since the only way to interact with them is to kill the psyker outright.
Not really since Mental Interrogation really sucks (Your character foregoing any psychic abilities and within 18" of an enemy character is extremely punishing). We have to see other if other Psychic Actions are worth to take
So, maybe I'm a crazy person, but the best way to use Magnus is to keep him off the table in strategic reserve bothers me as a concept.
I get the whats and whys involved here (because you don't want him summarily executed by alpha-strike), but if this is the best option your 'playtester and top-tier tournament player' can come up with for your centerpiece models, you've done game design wrong.
Same with supreme command detachment (and the knight rule). Hey, in the interest of strategy and tactics, we want multiple detachments to have a cost; here are multiple ways to get around the costs.
parakuribo wrote: I can see GK and Tzeentch having a field day with psychic objectives. Would be messed up for Tau and Necron since the only way to interact with them is to kill the psyker outright.
Maybe? Currently the one we know of requires a character nearby. If we're not pushing disc sorcerers hard we'll be out of range with smart movement from the opponent. It doesn't seem to require LOS so that's good at least.
So, maybe I'm a crazy person, but the best way to use Magnus is to keep him off the table in strategic reserve bothers me as a concept.
I get the whats and whys involved here (because you don't want him summarily executed by alpha-strike), but if this is the best option your 'playtester and top-tier tournament player' can come up with for your centerpiece models, you've done game design wrong.
Same with supreme command detachment (and the knight rule). Hey, in the interest of strategy and tactics, we want multiple detachments to have a cost; here are multiple ways to get around the costs.
If you deploy him on the table then you risk not going first and making him a big target. Drop him in turn two where he can charge up with psychic powers however, and then he's a walking wrecking ball.
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
I told all y'all to stop buying their printed material because of crap like this. They saw they could sell things in total fluctuation of quality like the whole Psychic Awakening series. Now they think they're gonna make a decent amount of money this way.
Oh they will make a whole lump of money this way, them being dumb is no excuse for pirating still.
You give GW an inch and they take well over a mile. That's all buying their printed material does. They're not the ones being dumb here.
"I want to buy a rulebook"
"we're locking it behind a box set for now"
"ok I have to wait 2 weeks"
You either wait a hypothetical 2 weeks or pirate it, it's dumb of GW to present their customers with those options, not the consumer for wanting to support a company.
It's likely launching a week later just to split it from the Indomitus release window. Core rules will likely be up day one, so waiting a whole week to buy expanded rules doesn't exactly rustle my jimmies.
Guess you both missed the new Chapter Approved there.
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
I told all y'all to stop buying their printed material because of crap like this. They saw they could sell things in total fluctuation of quality like the whole Psychic Awakening series. Now they think they're gonna make a decent amount of money this way.
Oh they will make a whole lump of money this way, them being dumb is no excuse for pirating still.
You give GW an inch and they take well over a mile. That's all buying their printed material does. They're not the ones being dumb here.
"I want to buy a rulebook"
"we're locking it behind a box set for now"
"ok I have to wait 2 weeks"
You either wait a hypothetical 2 weeks or pirate it, it's dumb of GW to present their customers with those options, not the consumer for wanting to support a company.
It's likely launching a week later just to split it from the Indomitus release window. Core rules will likely be up day one, so waiting a whole week to buy expanded rules doesn't exactly rustle my jimmies.
Guess you both missed the new Chapter Approved there.
Chapter Approved has points and tournament missions, but that's not the same as full rulebook.
Unless it's replacing the rulebook ala the General's Handbook.
So, maybe I'm a crazy person, but the best way to use Magnus is to keep him off the table in strategic reserve bothers me as a concept.
I get the whats and whys involved here (because you don't want him summarily executed by alpha-strike), but if this is the best option your 'playtester and top-tier tournament player' can come up with for your centerpiece models, you've done game design wrong.
Same with supreme command detachment (and the knight rule). Hey, in the interest of strategy and tactics, we want multiple detachments to have a cost; here are multiple ways to get around the costs.
If you deploy him on the table then you risk not going first and making him a big target. Drop him in turn two where he can charge up with psychic powers however, and then he's a walking wrecking ball.
I get the whats and whys involved here (because you don't want him summarily executed by alpha-strike), but if this is the best option your 'playtester and top-tier tournament player' can come up with for your centerpiece models, you've done game design wrong.
As much as I love my current Magnus model, taking him on the tabletop right now feels like a Handicap. Hopefully there is some rules to help with this, but besides putting him in reserve I am doubtful.
So, maybe I'm a crazy person, but the best way to use Magnus is to keep him off the table in strategic reserve bothers me as a concept.
I get the whats and whys involved here (because you don't want him summarily executed by alpha-strike), but if this is the best option your 'playtester and top-tier tournament player' can come up with for your centerpiece models, you've done game design wrong.
Same with supreme command detachment (and the knight rule). Hey, in the interest of strategy and tactics, we want multiple detachments to have a cost; here are multiple ways to get around the costs.
If you deploy him on the table then you risk not going first and making him a big target. Drop him in turn two where he can charge up with psychic powers however, and then he's a walking wrecking ball.
I get the whats and whys involved here (because you don't want him summarily executed by alpha-strike), but if this is the best option your 'playtester and top-tier tournament player' can come up with for your centerpiece models, you've done game design wrong.
I'm not exactly disagreeing. I'm feeling like they should just give characters the same rule they gave Ghaz so they can take a punch better.
Sasori wrote: As much as I love my current Magnus model, taking him on the tabletop right now feels like a Handicap. Hopefully there is some rules to help with this, but besides putting him in reserve I am doubtful.
To be fair the same is looking true of all LoW in 9th, unless GW is hiding something crazy like the roumered LoW can not loose more than 50%of their wounds a turn they'll be alpha struck off the table, just like they are in 8th.
One thing that concerns me from the stream is what when they started talking about "Warp Charge" they acted as if it was a big upcoming change.
"Remember Warp Charge?" was the line.
Of course Warp Charge is a regular term in 8th, so maybe they forgot that (wouldn't be the first some someone at GW has forgotten how their own rules work), but I do hope they're not about to over-complicate the psychic phase with More Rules™.
H.B.M.C. wrote: One thing that concerns me from the stream is what when they started talking about "Warp Charge" they acted as if it was a big upcoming change.
"Remember Warp Charge?" was the line.
Of course Warp Charge is a regular term in 8th, so maybe they forgot that (wouldn't be the first some someone at GW has forgotten how their own rules work), but I do hope they're not about to over-complicate the psychic phase with More Rules™.
Psychic tests now require you to run an obstacle course for time before rolling the dice.
Sasori wrote: As much as I love my current Magnus model, taking him on the tabletop right now feels like a Handicap. Hopefully there is some rules to help with this, but besides putting him in reserve I am doubtful.
To be fair the same is looking true of all LoW in 9th, unless GW is hiding something crazy like the roumered LoW can not loose more than 50%of their wounds a turn they'll be alpha struck off the table, just like they are in 8th.
At least it will be harder to alpha strike a LoW with smaller armies on both sides. It's.... something.
So, a workaround for free Primarchs as well. Now we're just waiting for a net 0 cost faction mixing special rule and this new detachment system will be left with exactly 0 impact on anything.
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
I told all y'all to stop buying their printed material because of crap like this. They saw they could sell things in total fluctuation of quality like the whole Psychic Awakening series. Now they think they're gonna make a decent amount of money this way.
Oh they will make a whole lump of money this way, them being dumb is no excuse for pirating still.
You give GW an inch and they take well over a mile. That's all buying their printed material does. They're not the ones being dumb here.
"I want to buy a rulebook"
"we're locking it behind a box set for now"
"ok I have to wait 2 weeks"
You either wait a hypothetical 2 weeks or pirate it, it's dumb of GW to present their customers with those options, not the consumer for wanting to support a company.
It's likely launching a week later just to split it from the Indomitus release window. Core rules will likely be up day one, so waiting a whole week to buy expanded rules doesn't exactly rustle my jimmies.
Guess you both missed the new Chapter Approved there.
Chapter Approved has points and tournament missions, but that's not the same as full rulebook.
Unless it's replacing the rulebook ala the General's Handbook.
The Generals' Handbook does NOT replace the rulebook.
Games Workshop wrote:Okay, so we’ve seen all of the awesome stuff that is going to be available at launch, and we know that there are completists out there who are eagerly anticipating everything! The good news is that you don’t have to wait long – Indomitus, Chapter Approved, the Crusade Journal and the Open War cards will all be available to pre-order from the 11th of July. Then, they will all be in-store from the 25th of July.
No mention of a standalone rulebook. Would they not release the rulebook at the same time to push Indomitus sales? Certainly not, right? Right!?
I foresee a lot of pirating popping up in the future.
I told all y'all to stop buying their printed material because of crap like this. They saw they could sell things in total fluctuation of quality like the whole Psychic Awakening series. Now they think they're gonna make a decent amount of money this way.
Oh they will make a whole lump of money this way, them being dumb is no excuse for pirating still.
You give GW an inch and they take well over a mile. That's all buying their printed material does. They're not the ones being dumb here.
"I want to buy a rulebook"
"we're locking it behind a box set for now"
"ok I have to wait 2 weeks"
You either wait a hypothetical 2 weeks or pirate it, it's dumb of GW to present their customers with those options, not the consumer for wanting to support a company.
It's likely launching a week later just to split it from the Indomitus release window. Core rules will likely be up day one, so waiting a whole week to buy expanded rules doesn't exactly rustle my jimmies.
Guess you both missed the new Chapter Approved there.
Not at all, people were buying those annually for updated points anyway, likewise people didn't object to buying an index at the start of 8th. They're making a mistake releasing the individual book after the box set, but pirating still isn't a valid response to not wanting to spend money or not being able to wait a short period longer.
Edit - they can get it day 1, there is no reason you can't legitimately acquire the rules day 1 and piracy can now be avoided.
Mr Morden wrote: Sooo Marines and Chaos Marines get CP boost from bringing great big models....anyone else or just Marines....
That will depend on who gets the Supreme Commander keyword. Off the top of my head I'd at least expect Shadow Sun (who is literally the Supreme Commander of the Tau), Farsight and the Swarmlord to get it.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
The chapter approved books are combined. Just like this year. But Chapter Approved is generally $40 and the regular rulebook is $60 so still $100. That said though the transition from 7th to 8th was more if you had more than a single faction or used FW.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
The chapter approved books are combined. Just like this year. But Chapter Approved is generally $40 and the regular rulebook is $60 so still $100. That said though the transition from 7th to 8th was more if you had more than a single faction or used FW.
Yeah, but you got new rules for all your models in those ala a codex, because it was a total reboot. Not that that wasn't pushing it a bit itself, mind you.
But here, it just seems a bit shameless to charge people for updating points costs when you're already charging them for the new rules. How are the updated points costs for 9th edition not a fundamental part of the new rules for 9th edition?
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
The chapter approved books are combined. Just like this year. But Chapter Approved is generally $40 and the regular rulebook is $60 so still $100. That said though the transition from 7th to 8th was more if you had more than a single faction or used FW.
Unless they just changed it (it's on Last Chance to Buy) it was $35.
Apparently it's in the same book as the points costs, so you get it either way. But even if it wasn't, I find it hard to believe they're using totally different missions for tournaments as for all other competitive play.
yukishiro1 wrote: Apparently it's in the same book as the points costs, so you get it either way. But even if it wasn't, I find it hard to believe they're using totally different missions for tournaments as for all other competitive play.
To bad:
The Grand Tournament 2020 Mission pack is … well, packed with new missions, alongside guidance for running and playing in tournaments, special Secondary Objectives, and loads more.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyran wrote: The TS faction focus also mentions that psykers can no longer cast psychic powers if they fall back.
The psychic secondary looks terrible too, you gotta have an enemy character within 18" of a psyker of yours every turn of the game and can't use your psyker's powers at all for the whole game in order to max it.
But it is starting to look like all the secondaries are designed to be virtually impossible to max, so maybe it's just the direction they went with them. If they're all equally hard to max, I guess it just becomes a different design philosophy.
At least until we see a kill secondary that's super easy to max out. Then we'll know it's vintage gee-dubs at work.
This edition presents some new challenges and opportunities now that Psykers can no longer manifest powers after Falling Back. While not as concerning to us as it may be to some – after all, a Daemon Prince can handle itself in combat, and the Black Staff of Ahriman isn’t just for show – it’s important to know that you’ll need to properly protect your Characters when the need for their powers outweighs their ability to scrap. If you don’t think your Sorcerers are up for the fight, you’ll want them safely behind a line of devoted bodyguards to ensure your Psychic phase isn’t disrupted.
yukishiro1 wrote: Apparently it's in the same book as the points costs, so you get it either way. But even if it wasn't, I find it hard to believe they're using totally different missions for tournaments as for all other competitive play.
To bad:
The Grand Tournament 2020 Mission pack is … well, packed with new missions, alongside guidance for running and playing in tournaments, special Secondary Objectives, and loads more.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyran wrote: The TS faction focus also mentions that psykers can no longer cast psychic powers if they fall back.
Not true. That's Psychic Actions.
The article explicitly says:
“Psykers can no longer manifest powers after falling back.”
The limitation on powers is kinda weird with how it interacts with stuff like harles that can literally now do everything after falling back except psychic powers. Hopefully that gets a day-1 FAQ so your shadowseer doesn't have to stay behind while everyone else jumps off somewhere else if he wants to be able to cast any powers. Otherwise it's just yet another reason to bubble-wrap him so it's impossible to get him engaged in combat.
So I made a spreadsheet of the points so far and averaged out the total point differential across all models(minus wargear) and it came out to about a 19% increase across the board.
HOWEVER, a good chunk of this is due to some massive outliers where a lot of a units cost was moved from their weapons to their bodies (i.e. Plasma inceptors increased 60% but their gun decreased by 15 points so they actually end up being 15% CHEAPER than they were.
With the majority of weapons decreasing in price, in some cases very significantly, I would say that on the whole you're likely only going to be seeing about a 10% increase in the points across most lists.
You also have equipment that isn't shown here that I would bet became cheaper or free as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Grav Chutes and CamoCloaks become free, just based on the way eliminators and scouts changed.
Centurion Devs most common loadouts only went up between 10-15%, Repulsor Executioner only went up about 10%, Suppressors went up 3%, The Invictor went up 25% for some reason. So glad I have 3 of those. Flamer Aggressors went up 15% Assault Centurions got hosed at a 34% increase,
Almost across the board Plasma saw a cost reduction. Combi-weapons were normalized which is nice for everything except Combi-Flamers who went UP despite already being the worst combi-weapon.
Heavy Bolters and multimeltas got hosed, especially on vehicles. RIP to Sisters who have mandatory HBs on their vehicles. Taking either of these was already a last resort option, now you'll never see them voluntarily again.
Lascannon went down which is BS with MM going up. In fact, with Lascannons at 15, I can't see a good reason to ever run a basic meltagun on troops unless you're an army that doesn't have lascannons.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
I'm getting either the box or the book and my buddy is getting the field manual whatever and we'll hack through the new edition together. I wonder if it will come with a digital copy like they said with codexes?
But here, it just seems a bit shameless to charge people for updating points costs when you're already charging them for the new rules. How are the updated points costs for 9th edition not a fundamental part of the new rules for 9th edition?
It definitely would have been nice to see points be free at the start. It begs the question if the chapter approved will be in June now or if we'll get another in December.
Seeing lascannons go down while mutli-meltas went up (for the vehicle version, I think they went down by 2 points for infantry?) is what makes me think that leak is a fake. Even I am not cynical enough to think that GW would actually do something that pants-on-head silly. Everyone already knew MMs were terrible compared to lascannons, and this doubles down on that by making them even worse.
Daedalus81 wrote: It definitely would have been nice to see points be free at the start. It begs the question if the chapter approved will be in June now or if we'll get another in December.
Both the points and the scenarios should be in the rule book. There is no need to add to the rules or update them the same day you release them.
It's just bad practice.
ERJAK wrote: So I made a spreadsheet of the points so far and averaged out the total point differential across all models(minus wargear) and it came out to about a 19% increase across the board.
HOWEVER, a good chunk of this is due to some massive outliers where a lot of a units cost was moved from their weapons to their bodies (i.e. Plasma inceptors increased 60% but their gun decreased by 15 points so they actually end up being 15% CHEAPER than they were.
With the majority of weapons decreasing in price, in some cases very significantly, I would say that on the whole you're likely only going to be seeing about a 10% increase in the points across most lists.
You also have equipment that isn't shown here that I would bet became cheaper or free as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Grav Chutes and CamoCloaks become free, just based on the way eliminators and scouts changed.
Centurion Devs most common loadouts only went up between 10-15%, Repulsor Executioner only went up about 10%, Suppressors went up 3%, The Invictor went up 25% for some reason. So glad I have 3 of those. Flamer Aggressors went up 15% Assault Centurions got hosed at a 34% increase,
Almost across the board Plasma saw a cost reduction. Combi-weapons were normalized which is nice for everything except Combi-Flamers who went UP despite already being the worst combi-weapon.
Heavy Bolters and multimeltas got hosed, especially on vehicles. RIP to Sisters who have mandatory HBs on their vehicles. Taking either of these was already a last resort option, now you'll never see them voluntarily again.
Lascannon went down which is BS with MM going up. In fact, with Lascannons at 15, I can't see a good reason to ever run a basic meltagun on troops unless you're an army that doesn't have lascannons.
Thanks for doing that. This was my gut feeling. Bodies up and weapons down. I'm miffed they didn't leak melee weapons - that's the real interesting part.
I feel like Tac Marines (and Scouts) got murdered. You'd have to take special weapons now to make them worthwhile.
This edition presents some new challenges and opportunities now that Psykers can no longer manifest powers after Falling Back. While not as concerning to us as it may be to some – after all, a Daemon Prince can handle itself in combat, and the Black Staff of Ahriman isn’t just for show – it’s important to know that you’ll need to properly protect your Characters when the need for their powers outweighs their ability to scrap. If you don’t think your Sorcerers are up for the fight, you’ll want them safely behind a line of devoted bodyguards to ensure your Psychic phase isn’t disrupted.
That's my bad then. Really need to stop having my eyes glaze over when I read those faction focus articles.
Daedalus81 wrote: It definitely would have been nice to see points be free at the start. It begs the question if the chapter approved will be in June now or if we'll get another in December.
Both the points and the scenarios should be in the rule book. There is no need to add to the rules or update them the same day you release them.
It's just bad practice.
Separate is ok for me. Gives them more time to adjust rather than forcing it with the print run of the big book.
It's not a coincidence that both non-primaris troops choices got seriously hosed in the points department. This is Phase II of the Primaris Project, where they start obsoleting all the Oldmarine choices by making the Primaris ones better in every way. To do that you gotta make them unattractive in points as well as stats.
Primaris was intended from the start to completely replace the Marine line and make everybody rebuy their Marine armies. They couldn't do that all in one edition because of the uproar, but now that they got people used to the idea in 8th, 9th is where they really start the full-scale replacement project.
ERJAK wrote: So I made a spreadsheet of the points so far and averaged out the total point differential across all models(minus wargear) and it came out to about a 19% increase across the board.
HOWEVER, a good chunk of this is due to some massive outliers where a lot of a units cost was moved from their weapons to their bodies (i.e. Plasma inceptors increased 60% but their gun decreased by 15 points so they actually end up being 15% CHEAPER than they were.
With the majority of weapons decreasing in price, in some cases very significantly, I would say that on the whole you're likely only going to be seeing about a 10% increase in the points across most lists.
You also have equipment that isn't shown here that I would bet became cheaper or free as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Grav Chutes and CamoCloaks become free, just based on the way eliminators and scouts changed.
Centurion Devs most common loadouts only went up between 10-15%, Repulsor Executioner only went up about 10%, Suppressors went up 3%, The Invictor went up 25% for some reason. So glad I have 3 of those. Flamer Aggressors went up 15% Assault Centurions got hosed at a 34% increase,
Almost across the board Plasma saw a cost reduction. Combi-weapons were normalized which is nice for everything except Combi-Flamers who went UP despite already being the worst combi-weapon.
Heavy Bolters and multimeltas got hosed, especially on vehicles. RIP to Sisters who have mandatory HBs on their vehicles. Taking either of these was already a last resort option, now you'll never see them voluntarily again.
Lascannon went down which is BS with MM going up. In fact, with Lascannons at 15, I can't see a good reason to ever run a basic meltagun on troops unless you're an army that doesn't have lascannons.
It's worth noting that those are playtester points and the final numbers may be higher or lower than what we have hear.
They also baked weapons into points costs which is really stupid since it makes it harder to balance that stuff properly individually.i sincerely hope they didn't leave it that way in thee final release.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Presumably the narrative missions will be in the main book. It's not really clear whether the matched play missions will be.
In any case, it doesn't really matter, since to play matched play (come on, nobody uses PL for matched play) you have to buy the other half of the same book anyway.
yukishiro1 wrote: Presumably the narrative missions will be in the main book. It's not really clear whether the matched play missions will be.
In any case, it doesn't really matter, since to play matched play (come on, nobody uses PL for matched play) you have to buy the other half of the same book anyway.
Only true if GW is making tournament missions the only way to play matched.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Thats GW trying to define what a competitive player is.
It's still shady as Feth charging for the point adjustments upon release. I am fine with it so long as they release a digital update for free, but going by past precedent we can assume they won't.
Good luck finding a matched play game that uses PL instead of points, even if you are right that there will be two different sets of matched play missions, one in the main book and one in the CA book.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
I'm getting either the box or the book and my buddy is getting the field manual whatever and we'll hack through the new edition together. I wonder if it will come with a digital copy like they said with codexes?
But here, it just seems a bit shameless to charge people for updating points costs when you're already charging them for the new rules. How are the updated points costs for 9th edition not a fundamental part of the new rules for 9th edition?
It definitely would have been nice to see points be free at the start. It begs the question if the chapter approved will be in June now or if we'll get another in December.
Considering how off the wall some of the point changes we've seen in the preview are (MM at 20 despite lascannon at goddam 15) We better get another one in december. Marines only went up maybe 10%, that's not a whole lot of wiggle room for them to increase other armies point values. Gak, a 3 point increase on a Basic SoB model (like what tac marines got) would be enough to put SoB out of the edition entirely if you combine it with the HB and MM bumps that are coming in. That'd be every competitive model in the army nerfed 20% minimum. A standard SoB squad with 2 stormbolters would go from 49 points to 66,a 34% increase compared to intercessors 15ish?. 10pt Meltaguns wouldn't be anywhere near enough to save us.
And while SoB is the only army I'm familiar with enough to give explicit examples, I bet there are plenty of other players seeing this and thinking "damn, if these 2-3 things eat a 20% nerf, that's all she wrote".
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Thats GW trying to define what a competitive player is.
It's still shady as Feth charging for the point adjustments upon release. I am fine with it so long as they release a digital update for free, but going by past precedent we can assume they won't.
Depends what happens witbh the app, it has points based list building, so if that's a subscription at a small fee I'd prefer that to buying chapter approved all the time.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Thats GW trying to define what a competitive player is.
It's still shady as Feth charging for the point adjustments upon release. I am fine with it so long as they release a digital update for free, but going by past precedent we can assume they won't.
Remember the Warhammer 40,000 App is coming on the 11th:
On the same day that the Warhammer 40,000 pre-orders go live, a new app will be launched alongside it, providing several cool features to help you, including a full matched play army builder. The new app will do a number of things to assist players with their games, but one of the most useful will be the ability to build army lists using the updated points values and Detachments. We’ll have more on the Warhammer 40,000 app soon, so watch this space!
Am I right in thinking the Supreme command detachment would allow me to take Magnus in a Tzeentch demon army without messing with subfaction rules?
Or, say, Gulliman in a Custodes force? Or, potentially, Abbadon with Word Bearers (assuming he get Supreme Commander at some point)?
Secondly, does anyone else feel the disparity between lascannons and multimelta is caused by the perceived effects of the new terrain rules and smaller board sizes? GW may feel confident that the game will be played at much smaller ranges now. Whether it does or not remains to be seen, but that could be the thought process.
It's a pretty safe bet that whatever options GW gives you for buying their new stuff, there isn't going to be one that's a lot cheaper than the others. The idea that they're going to release a free digital points update, for example, is a bit fanciful. GW isn't in the business of free.
Daedalus81 wrote: It definitely would have been nice to see points be free at the start. It begs the question if the chapter approved will be in June now or if we'll get another in December.
Both the points and the scenarios should be in the rule book. There is no need to add to the rules or update them the same day you release them.
It's just bad practice.
Scenarios should be.
Points shouldn't be, with the way they're updated. You don't want to sell a core rulebook to someone in a year or two with the wrong point values.
Selling updates and errata is bad practice- they should be part of the free FAQ/errata process.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Thats GW trying to define what a competitive player is.
It's still shady as Feth charging for the point adjustments upon release. I am fine with it so long as they release a digital update for free, but going by past precedent we can assume they won't.
Remember the Warhammer 40,000 App is coming on the 11th:
On the same day that the Warhammer 40,000 pre-orders go live, a new app will be launched alongside it, providing several cool features to help you, including a full matched play army builder. The new app will do a number of things to assist players with their games, but one of the most useful will be the ability to build army lists using the updated points values and Detachments. We’ll have more on the Warhammer 40,000 app soon, so watch this space!
By that logic they shouldn't be selling them at all, just putting a pdf on their website.
Yeah, the business of selling points updates has always been really questionable, which is why they nominally bundle them in with other stuff - even GW recognizes the PR hit that would come from directly selling points updates.
Considering how off the wall some of the point changes we've seen in the preview are (MM at 20 despite lascannon at goddam 15) We better get another one in december. Marines only went up maybe 10%, that's not a whole lot of wiggle room for them to increase other armies point values. Gak, a 3 point increase on a Basic SoB model (like what tac marines got) would be enough to put SoB out of the edition entirely if you combine it with the HB and MM bumps that are coming in. That'd be every competitive model in the army nerfed 20% minimum. A standard SoB squad with 2 stormbolters would go from 49 points to 66,a 34% increase compared to intercessors 15ish?. 10pt Meltaguns wouldn't be anywhere near enough to save us.
And while SoB is the only army I'm familiar with enough to give explicit examples, I bet there are plenty of other players seeing this and thinking "damn, if these 2-3 things eat a 20% nerf, that's all she wrote".
SoB are close enough to 9th that they may be ok. Necrons went up only 1 after all.
So, whilst being able to use Magnus and then get the battlion for free, i for one will probably never ever do this outside of a very fluffy, friendly list.
Magnus can put in work, but, i'd never use him as my warlord in a serious game.
I'm really hoping the basic marines are not so close in points to primaris marines.
Whilst it may work well to push Primaris within the codex, it's also going to have a detrimental knock on with CSM.
CSM points are always very close to basic marines, so if basic marines get overcosted, more than likely CSM will too and without even having the cool bonus's.
Considering how off the wall some of the point changes we've seen in the preview are (MM at 20 despite lascannon at goddam 15) We better get another one in december. Marines only went up maybe 10%, that's not a whole lot of wiggle room for them to increase other armies point values. Gak, a 3 point increase on a Basic SoB model (like what tac marines got) would be enough to put SoB out of the edition entirely if you combine it with the HB and MM bumps that are coming in. That'd be every competitive model in the army nerfed 20% minimum. A standard SoB squad with 2 stormbolters would go from 49 points to 66,a 34% increase compared to intercessors 15ish?. 10pt Meltaguns wouldn't be anywhere near enough to save us.
And while SoB is the only army I'm familiar with enough to give explicit examples, I bet there are plenty of other players seeing this and thinking "damn, if these 2-3 things eat a 20% nerf, that's all she wrote".
SoB are close enough to 9th that they may be ok. Necrons went up only 1 after all.
To be fair, if they only go up 1-2 they'll still be fine. Even though heavy bolters going up on vehicles sucks, some drops in meltas and flamers counter basic troops going up a little.
It's if they edge into that 3 range, even for Seraphim and Zephyrim who would see a lower overall percentage increase, it would still be a scary way to start an edition.
No idea why Stern is going up a month after release though, lol.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Thats GW trying to define what a competitive player is.
It's still shady as Feth charging for the point adjustments upon release. I am fine with it so long as they release a digital update for free, but going by past precedent we can assume they won't.
Remember the Warhammer 40,000 App is coming on the 11th:
On the same day that the Warhammer 40,000 pre-orders go live, a new app will be launched alongside it, providing several cool features to help you, including a full matched play army builder. The new app will do a number of things to assist players with their games, but one of the most useful will be the ability to build army lists using the updated points values and Detachments. We’ll have more on the Warhammer 40,000 app soon, so watch this space!
Sure I approve and have advocated for an app for ages now. But an app definitely should not be a requirement either. The fact remains that GW sells codex that are now out of date, and with incorrect data to play their game. Points fixes should just be listed online for free. It's the reason I didn't bother with CA2019 this last year, I couldn't bring myself to buy points updates when GW is admitting they got them wrong and sold them to me to begin with. Points updates are no different then FAQ and only now do I realize it's probably only a matter of time before they start selling FAQ and Errata as well (points changes are errata so I guess they already do).
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Thats GW trying to define what a competitive player is.
It's still shady as Feth charging for the point adjustments upon release. I am fine with it so long as they release a digital update for free, but going by past precedent we can assume they won't.
Remember the Warhammer 40,000 App is coming on the 11th:
On the same day that the Warhammer 40,000 pre-orders go live, a new app will be launched alongside it, providing several cool features to help you, including a full matched play army builder. The new app will do a number of things to assist players with their games, but one of the most useful will be the ability to build army lists using the updated points values and Detachments. We’ll have more on the Warhammer 40,000 app soon, so watch this space!
Hmm...ok...so points are "free" and its just the tournament crowd buying those books.
yukishiro1 wrote: It's a pretty safe bet that whatever options GW gives you for buying their new stuff, there isn't going to be one that's a lot cheaper than the others. The idea that they're going to release a free digital points update, for example, is a bit fanciful. GW isn't in the business of free.
I am not suggesting they should be. There is a huge difference between fixing a mistake and charging the customer for one though. GW has always sucked royally at PR and building good will.
Kdash wrote: So, whilst being able to use Magnus and then get the battlion for free, i for one will probably never ever do this outside of a very fluffy, friendly list.
Magnus can put in work, but, i'd never use him as my warlord in a serious game.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
yukishiro1 wrote: Pretty funny that it looks like you have to buy three books to get the new missions, rulebook, and points costs.
Looking at over $100 just to get the paper stuff you need to play the new edition competitively.
Nah, you only need those missions for tournament play.
No. The game needs missions in order to play, it's a core element to WHY your playing the game.
Also, it's getting real old having points patched and sold for profit repeatedly. They literally just charged the community 6 months ago for the munitorum field manual. Now they are doing it again.
Whats worse is they are selling printed codexes with out of date points, which is bad enough, but they are charging for the current points.
They specifically calles out the stuff in Chapter Approved as being for "competetive players".
Missions will still be in the core rules, but tournament missions and the like are seperate for people who play that subset of matched play.
Thats GW trying to define what a competitive player is.
It's still shady as Feth charging for the point adjustments upon release. I am fine with it so long as they release a digital update for free, but going by past precedent we can assume they won't.
Remember the Warhammer 40,000 App is coming on the 11th:
On the same day that the Warhammer 40,000 pre-orders go live, a new app will be launched alongside it, providing several cool features to help you, including a full matched play army builder. The new app will do a number of things to assist players with their games, but one of the most useful will be the ability to build army lists using the updated points values and Detachments. We’ll have more on the Warhammer 40,000 app soon, so watch this space!
Hmm...ok...so points are "free" and its just the tournament crowd buying those books.
I will be the first to salute GW if they finally stop charging for points. But I'll have to see it to believe it. An app doesn't mean it's free, it could mean for example that you get the new points for the army builder only if you buy the CA2020 book, or it could have a monthly fee for that feature, or something like that.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
Right-which is why 40k doesn't work very well for narrative.
Name the customization DE have.
Or most Primaris units.
Or Harlequins.
Or Necrons.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
Right-which is why 40k doesn't work very well for narrative.
Name the customization DE have.
Or most Primaris units.
Or Harlequins.
Or Necrons.
Nah, 40k works perfect for narrative. Remember all those times that AdMech would get T1 and shoot a bunch of Tau off the table and they don't shoot back for some inexplicable reason? OH and remember how it was super in fluff for certain units to not be equivalent in points because that's not how a narrative is forged, because heaven forbid Gaunts be able to do anything close to what Infantry can do!
Narrative people can make up whatever they want, regardless of a tight rule set. A tight rule set means they don't have to do GW's job for a good game though.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
Right-which is why 40k doesn't work very well for narrative.
Name the customization DE have.
Or most Primaris units.
Or Harlequins.
Or Necrons.
Nah, 40k works perfect for narrative. Remember all those times that AdMech would get T1 and shoot a bunch of Tau off the table and they don't shoot back for some inexplicable reason? OH and remember how it was super in fluff for certain units to not be equivalent in points because that's not how a narrative is forged, because heaven forbid Gaunts be able to do anything close to what Infantry can do!
Narrative people can make up whatever they want, regardless of a tight rule set. A tight rule set means they don't have to do GW's job for a good game though.
Remember when Skitarii would have their tireless march represented on the tabletop via the Scout rule?
M8" WS4+ BS4+ S5 T5 W6 A4 LD10 SV3+
Atomiser (he got those 2x) 12" Assault 3 S6 AP-2 D1
Melee S user AP-2 D1
living metal
in your command phase, select a friendly dynasty unit within 9" of this model, add 1 to reanimation protocoll rolls for that unit
last is necron warriors and scarabs, profiles havent changed, warriors only got that one new weapon that was allready leaked.
Destroyer lord & Overlord stuff:
h e got a trachionarrow 120" assault 1 S12 Ap-5 D D6 one use only and
Hyperphase Scythe S+2 AP-3 D D3
Skorpekh Lord
M8" WS2+ BS2+ S6 T6 W6 A4 LD10 SV3+
Anihilator: 19" Assault 2d3 S6 Ap-1 D1 Explosive (the new auto hit mechanic vs hordes)
Claws: S user Ap-1 D1 can do 2 attack rolls instead of 1 for each attack
Scythe S+2 AP-4 D3 -1 to hit
living metal
friendly destructor cult units within 6" gain reroll 1 on wound rolls
4+ invul
he can reroll hit rolls of 1
skorpekh destructors
M8" WS3+ BS3+ S5 T5 W3 A3 LD10 SV3+
Plasmacyte:
M8" WS4+ BS4+ S4 T5 W1 A1 LD10 SV4+
Their Twin CC weapons: Suser AP-3 D2 the user can make 1 additional attack with that weapon
Their big CC weapon S+2 AP-4 D3
Plasmacyte: Suser AP-1 D1
reanimation protocolls (see codex necrons)
weapon infusion. if a unit has a plasmacite it can roll a d6 at the start of the close combat phase. if a 1 is rolled, 1 destructor gets removed. in any case the whole unit gains +1S and +1A
yukishiro1 wrote: Lol if Judicars get a free vexator mask built in, they really are going all-in on the "Imperium gets everything Xenos get, except better" theme.
They get a free vex mask according to that, i.e. a free, CP-less version of one of the very best relics in the entire game.
Being able to put always-strikes-last on something is game-changing against any combat army.
He does it to one unit within range though. This edition does not look melee friendly based on what has been shown. Granted, with the strike last, he's still better than the Chaos dudes that are supposed to be challenge monsters, but that's a given. Chaos aren't allowed to be good at anything with their base units!
Vex mask is also one unit within 6". A targeted ASL that you don't even need to be in combat to use (unlike Armor of Russ) is incredibly powerful against a combat army. A lot of armies just have no real answer to it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So I was 100% right about 9th actually being Warhammer 40,000: Tournament Edition.
What did you expect, with all the highly-lauded input they got from tournament organizers on how this game should be played?
Umm. Crusade?
Yeah, that. But also just crack open a codex and tell me that dozens of unit options, 'bespoke rules', stratagems, layers of faction rules, etc. is how anyone would go about building a competitive game. The game has many times more narrative-y depth than it had a few editions ago. And power levels are still front and center, and yes people use them when they plop down the models they own without worrying about what's optimal. We all started playing that way.
GW seems to be pushing hard on both sides to better fuel both the narrative gamers and the competitive crowd...which is certainly an interesting approach.
Bad for competitive=/=good for narrative.
Bad for competitive =/= bad for narrative
And also
Good for competitive =/= good for narrative
Both philosophies can occasionally overlap, but more often than not they are completely at odds.
Competitive at its idealized extreme will always value very tight rules design with little room for argument, purpose built units to create strategic options, and no bloat.
Narrative at its end point wants as much customization as possible, as many options imagined by the setting, and rules which facilitate storytelling as well as mimicking the cinematic moments you hear about in the fluff.
Right-which is why 40k doesn't work very well for narrative.
Name the customization DE have.
Or most Primaris units.
Or Harlequins.
Or Necrons.
There was plenty of customization in every rules edition prior to 8th. Rogue Trader basically used modified pen and paper RPG stats.
Harlequins are a "faction" spun out of what used to be a handful of Eldar character options.
Necrons have historically never had much in the way of options for regular units but had a massive variety of wargear for Lords. It also played a little to hard into it's theme of being mysterious (where even now their lore is just a lot of "Who knows what horrors lie unawakened in the darkest depths of their tombs?")
Primaris still don't have their full range and only released in 8E, which let's address for a second:
The only reason we have a lack of options now is because 7E, after being the fourth rules set on top of the foundation 4E build, had started to turn into an unorganized morass of USRs that weren't universal, rules bolted on in later editions which invalidated original core rules, and multiple changes in design philosophy within the company which lead to horribly mismatched design goals all over the game.
8E in its attempt to fix all of that "started from the ground up" (except for all those core designs it kept from past editions ) by throwing out the rules to nearly everything that didn't come on a sprue. That included anything which used to be represented by painting rank indicators (DE Trueborn) or which could be easily kitbashed.
Probably not even because of Chapterhouse as much as Dakka likes to claim so. More than likely it was because it's bad sales to tell a new hobbyist that they need to buy 5 kits just to make a single veteran squad loadout or that your Trueborn will look gakkier than that other guy's just because he's had 14 more years of hobby experience than you. (Also likely the reason that the current art is so close to the models themselves.)
So yeah, no. This is only a problem since 8E which has slowly been changing as time has gone on and codexes started adding options back for relics, subfractions, etc. But 40k has always had a rich history of customization running through its veins.
I was hoping they wouldn't do that here. AoS was bad enough.... Even though I'm pretty happy with my ziggurat in the looks department.
Going to be honest: here it actually makes more sense. Webway Gates, the Tidewalls, etc all make a kind of sense. Webway Gates are kinda like the Idoneth piece though in that they really should be tied to a 'specific' kind of warzone.
These drop turrets, as much as I loathe them being Marines, at least kinda/sorta make sense in the same way that Tarantulas do: speedy deployment of defensive perimeters. But we damn well better see stuff for the Guard and AdMech. And none of that Sacristan Shrine garbage, GW! That's a Knight faction piece and you know it!
Another tank-replacement fixed position for a mobile army that has tanks which fill the exact same role.
I love that it can shoot 360, but in 8 specific positions, the turret can't tilt back fully because one launcher or the other will hit the fins. Which creates gaps in its fire coverage. Well done, GW. Unnecessary model with unnecessary flaws.
Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
Voss wrote: Another tank-replacement fixed position for a mobile army that has tanks which fill the exact same role.
I love that it can shoot 360, but in 8 specific positions, the turret can't tilt back fully because one launcher or the other will hit the fins. Which creates gaps in its fire coverage. Well done, GW. Unnecessary model with unnecessary flaws.
The missiles are guided, they don't care where the turret is aiming when they shoot.
WTAF? Were is a Whirlwind +++, made into a building with what is that 8 Flamers but not just any flamers these are new improved Primaris Flamer rifles, comes with an 18 inch range S6, Ap-2 D3, benifits from doctorines and is Flat 8 shots.
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
I mean it's fair he hits on a 3+ with a D3 weapon but it's only S7, which is pretty lame.
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
Gotta remember that's 105 probably in todays money for the points.
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
Better shooting attack, option of anti-horde Claw or better Damage 3 weapon, Reroll of 1's to hit, reroll of 1's to wound for all destroyer cult.
Darsath wrote: Honestly, those new Necron rules don't look particularly great. Could be wrong, and the points values we've been shown could be wrong, but it certainly doesn't look very good.
Skorpekh Lord and Destroyers look pretty good.
Plasmancer doesn't make a lot of since, I feel like there is more to him than this profile.
The Reanimator is the only thing that really strikes me as pure bunk right now.
The new Skorpekh lord is very similar to the current Destroyer Lord, so he's easier to judge. Honestly doesn't look particularly good, especially as he still hits on 3's with his main weapon still. Plus little support ability and a whopping 120 points to boot. Yikes.
I mean it's fair he hits on a 3+ with a D3 weapon but it's only S7, which is pretty lame.
It's Strength 8, not 7. But yeah, pretty poor overall. 4 Attacks and 6 wounds is actually a little lower than you'd expect at 120 points. I was hoping for a 2+ save as the least anyways.
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
I mean when has 40k ever really cared about safety? They have guns that might explode on the user.
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
I mean when has 40k ever really cared about safety? They have guns that might explode on the user.
The guns in question are often more valuable than the person holding them so who cares? Buildings are expensive though.
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
I mean when has 40k ever really cared about safety? They have guns that might explode on the user.
The guns in question are often more valuable than the person holding them so who cares? Buildings are expensive though.
Load bearing walls are canonically heresy in 40k so maybe making OSHA cry is a design goal?
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
I mean when has 40k ever really cared about safety? They have guns that might explode on the user.
'Brother Techmarine! All of those rocket-flamer-drop-bunkers you ditched our perfectly serviceable Deathwind pods for have exploded in the air or as soon as they landed!'
'Fear not brother. The Omnissiah cares not for safety.'
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
I mean when has 40k ever really cared about safety? They have guns that might explode on the user.
The guns in question are often more valuable than the person holding them so who cares? Buildings are expensive though.
Load bearing walls are canonically heresy in 40k so maybe making OSHA cry is a design goal?
What? What's that from? That seems odd even for 40k, I mean the load needs bearing somewhere right? Do they magic it all somewhere else???
Orbital drop brick is now the dumbest design in the marine arsenal. On account of being a brick with no deceleration anything, some random nonfunctional fins just to visually tie it to the drop pod, and nonfunctional legs that apparently come collapsed and then deploy to do absolutely nothing.
lord_blackfang wrote: Orbital drop brick is now the dumbest design in the marine arsenal. On account of being a brick with no deceleration anything, some random nonfunctional fins just to visually tie it to the drop pod, and nonfunctional legs that apparently come collapsed and then deploy to do absolutely nothing.
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
I mean when has 40k ever really cared about safety? They have guns that might explode on the user.
'Brother Techmarine! All of those rocket-flamer-drop-bunkers you ditched our perfectly serviceable Deathwind pods for have exploded in the air or as soon as they landed!'
'Fear not brother. The Omnissiah cares not for safety.'
Last line should've been "The Omnissiah wills it" and you'd have been pretty correct.
lord_blackfang wrote: Orbital drop brick is now the dumbest design in the marine arsenal. On account of being a brick with no deceleration anything, some random nonfunctional fins just to visually tie it to the drop pod, and nonfunctional legs that apparently come collapsed and then deploy to do absolutely nothing.
Annoyingly the concept could have worked - have them deployed via Thunderhawk Transporter, and then have the legs lift if off the ground slightly in order to level it.
(Plus ditch the non-functional fins and presumably pointless vision ports).
lord_blackfang wrote: Orbital drop brick is now the dumbest design in the marine arsenal. On account of being a brick with no deceleration anything, some random nonfunctional fins just to visually tie it to the drop pod, and nonfunctional legs that apparently come collapsed and then deploy to do absolutely nothing.
Annoyingly the concept could have worked - have them deployed via Thunderhawk Transporter, and then have the legs lift if off the ground slightly in order to level it.
(Plus ditch the non-functional fins and presumably pointless vision ports).
It would take as little as putting a Repulsor grav plate on each corner instead of the legs to make it at least in-universe sensible, if not real world sensible. But it's not even that. Or ideally it would look like something that transformed into a turret from a Drop Poddy shape after touchdown.
I wonder if we’re effectively only seeing the “top” of the turret and the idea is that it doesn’t decelerate, buries itself and then the “legs” pull it up level.
If that’s how it works, it’s not been executed very well but.... maybe?
yukishiro1 wrote: Vex mask is also one unit within 6". A targeted ASL that you don't even need to be in combat to use (unlike Armor of Russ) is incredibly powerful against a combat army. A lot of armies just have no real answer to it.
I mean, it's on a mediocre close combat character in an army that isn't great a close combat in general (or at the very least prefers shooting quite a bit). It'll feth up something like a unit of Boyz or Banshees, but most real CQC units won't care all that much.
jivardi wrote: Dang. Psykers and psyker units that kill themselves due to Perils cause D3 mortal wounds to all units within 6" of them.
Hehe, the Daemon stratagem that causes psykers to take 2d3 mortal wounds for perils instead of a D3 is now more valuable.
That's the only change I see to psychic.
Thought they always did that.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr Insomniac wrote: I wonder if we’re effectively only seeing the “top” of the turret and the idea is that it doesn’t decelerate, buries itself and then the “legs” pull it up level.
If that’s how it works, it’s not been executed very well but.... maybe?
I kinda love it, not gonna lie. Unless those are flamers on the outside of it, then it's just kinda stupid.
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
I mean when has 40k ever really cared about safety? They have guns that might explode on the user.
The guns in question are often more valuable than the person holding them so who cares? Buildings are expensive though.
Load bearing walls are canonically heresy in 40k so maybe making OSHA cry is a design goal?
What? What's that from? That seems odd even for 40k, I mean the load needs bearing somewhere right? Do they magic it all somewhere else???
Lord Damocles wrote: How do you drop that through an atmosphere without it all exploding..?
DoW just has everything drop from orbit.
Which is kind of dumb, but concessions have to be made for the sake of gameplay. Even then, the Marine structures have drop rigs around them, whereas this thing has the stabilisation vanes from the top of a drop pod built into it half way up; with a bunch of rockets strapped to the top, and it's filled with promethium!
I mean when has 40k ever really cared about safety? They have guns that might explode on the user.
The guns in question are often more valuable than the person holding them so who cares? Buildings are expensive though.
Load bearing walls are canonically heresy in 40k so maybe making OSHA cry is a design goal?
What? What's that from? That seems odd even for 40k, I mean the load needs bearing somewhere right? Do they magic it all somewhere else???
From "Death of Antagonis":
Wow, they forgot how walls work. Mind you that is on brand. Although if he is dead then Dorn must be spinning in his grave.
I actually proposed a fixed 
