Those Vindicators are very tempting. As adorable as the Arvus Lighters...

I'm standing by for a soft relaunch of the game, keeping with the Saturnine thing. Maybe announced at Nova, if we're lucky...

ill pick up the book and the tokens, thats probably it at least for now.

My one big hope (which seems unlikely but not entirely out of the question) is that they include support formations or whatever to include SA as part of Legiones Astartes forces (similar to what they did for Mechanicum)

 xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ceirqemh/sunday-preview-miao-ying-raises-a-storm-in-the-old-world/

'ere we go 'ere we go 'ere we go

My wallet just melted. Finally!

I’ll be getting One of Everything I think.

So happy to finally get marine artillery

chaos0xomega wrote:
ill pick up the book and the tokens, thats probably it at least for now.

My one big hope (which seems unlikely but not entirely out of the question) is that they include support formations or whatever to include SA as part of Legiones Astartes forces (similar to what they did for Mechanicum)

Oh, yes, that’d be good. They had the combined SA and Legion company they could include

So had a bit of a look through the info on the cards.

The Astartes pack contains 47 datasheet cards including Detachment upgrades, and 17 Formation cards. Im not sure what a detachment upgrade is, but I count 35 current detachments and 13 formations (12 if you dont count the Brethren of Iron Mechanicum support formation, 11 if you also cut the augmented spearhead). Looks like we'll be getting at least 4 new Astartes formations, possibly 5 or 6 depending on how they handle the support formations and augmented spearhead formation - if you add an SA support formation the spearhead kinda becomes redundant. Adding the new astartes units brings us to 40 detachments - 41 if whirlwinds and scorpius are separate (ala basilisk/medusa in SA). If I were to guess, id say detachment upgrades will be palisade drop pod, leviathan upgrades for contemptor talons, terminator and assault marine upgrades for tacticals, which brings us to 45. Taking a stab in the dark, number 46 is separating sicaran omegas into a separate detachment from sicarans, and 47 is an additional detachment upgrade card for plasma/missile marines.

The SA pack contains 40 datasheet cards including Detachment upgrades, and 16 Formations. Current count is 11 formations, 10 if you cut Iron Cohort support - so either 5 or 6 new ones. I count 30 detachments, current upgrades are Veltarii/Charonite Ogryns for Tercios, and Marauder Pathfinder, Colossus, and Destroyer upgrades for Marauder Bombers which brings us to 35. Not sure how we get to 40, but if the split leman russ strike into battle and vanquisher, and superheavy tanks to baneblade and hellhammer that gives us 37. Auxiliaries w flamers for 38. Still dont know how we get to 40.

The Mechanicum pack contains 39 datasheet cards including Detachment upgrades, and 27 Formation cards. Currently they have 13 formations including dark mech and the 2 support formations. If you add the other mechanicum support formations for the other factions that gets you to 18, leaving 9 unaccounted for. With the other two packs im figuring they are mainly support formations for inclusion with other factions, but as the Mechanicum already have those im guessing we are looking at about 4-5 new formations each for mechanicum and dark mechanicum, unless they are including the current 10 titanicus/questoris formations, which means i either miscounted or we are losing a formation. Possible they are merging the loyalist/traitor taghma sub-covenant formations since they are identical aside from allegiance? Detachment wise I count 34 if you double count mechanicum vs dark mechanicum, otherwise its 23. There are currently no upgrades. If you add knights and titans you get 34 by my count, plus 5 upgrades (armiger, moirax, atropos, styrix, megaera) which seems to support the inclusion of knight/titan stuff in this set and the taghma sub-covenants are being merged.

So - likely new stuff:

Astartes - 6 new formations, im guessing a couple will be for arty/heavy tank focused purposes, the remainder will probably be support formations for some combination of SA/Mechanicum/Knights/Titans. If I were to guess not every faction will get one or there will be a common formation shared by multiple factions, or they just say astartes are good on arty and superheavies with the currently available formations and just do one support formation per factiom. Possible one or two new unannounced detachments as well (Vindicator laser destroyer?) Or they are separating up a couple things.

Auxilia - 6 new formations, im guessing all support (one per faction including auxilia). Some stuff is gstting split and/or theres some new detachments in there currently unannounced.

Mechanicum - Nothing new, loyalist/traitor taghma formations merged, includes knight/titan cards.

Rulebook, Tokens, and the card sets (which at least hopefully have the errata integrated)...

Liber designers notes

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/kamqgjvb/legions-imperialis-designers-notes-how-the-liber-strategia-shakes-up-the-whole-game/

Designer article up: https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/kamqgjvb/legions-imperialis-designers-notes-how-the-liber-strategia-shakes-up-the-whole-game/

@chaos0xomega looks like you're thinking on the cards lines up pretty well - split Leman Russes and and Malcadors (given as examples), so looks likely that's where the additional cards come from.

Bit of a shame as pretty much indirectly confirms there's nothing else new coming.

Otherwise the balance changes look like they might be positive, not much detail but the examples are I think in the right direction, e.g. extra dice for assault cannon Contemptors and points reductions for Titans and Knights...

How does it confirm nothing new is coming? I mean, GW could milk it out by releasing an updated version of this book and then another, and then compile them into another compendium, and so on.

Seems like wider changes than expected, this could effectively be LI v1.5

 Malika2 wrote:
How does it confirm nothing new is coming? I mean, GW could milk it out by releasing an updated version of this book and then another, and then compile them into another compendium, and so on.

Indeed. Spesh with…

Warhammer Community Article wrote: Alongside these, you can expect to see legendary Formations such as the Theta-Garmon ‘Deathless’ Sub-Cohort and the White Scars Chogorian Warband. These open up exciting new opportunities for additional content in the future…

 Malika2 wrote:
How does it confirm nothing new is coming? I mean, GW could milk it out by releasing an updated version of this book and then another, and then compile them into another compendium, and so on.

They mean nothing else within this book, i.e. it probably doesn't contain rules for Fellblades or other unannounced models.

 Malika2 wrote:
How does it confirm nothing new is coming? I mean, GW could milk it out by releasing an updated version of this book and then another, and then compile them into another compendium, and so on.

As in nothing else new (e.g. unpreviewed) in the compendium. Some folks had speculated the card numbers meant there were other new models in the book that hadn't been previewed yet - stuff like Fellblades. Instead looks like chaos0xomega maths was right and the extra cards are just split out of old detachments and upgrades.

I hope there is more to follow later, but who knows! Though if they're planning any more it wouldn't be hard (and surely would make sense?) to drop a little line at the end of one of the articles about the new book (assuming we get any others in addition to todays) saying some kind of "more to come in the future!" (hadn't clocked the below at this point!)

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
How does it confirm nothing new is coming? I mean, GW could milk it out by releasing an updated version of this book and then another, and then compile them into another compendium, and so on.

Indeed. Spesh with…

Warhammer Community Article wrote: Alongside these, you can expect to see legendary Formations such as the Theta-Garmon ‘Deathless’ Sub-Cohort and the White Scars Chogorian Warband. These open up exciting new opportunities for additional content in the future…

Ah, good catch! Missed that, curious how legendary formations open up opportunities for additional content themselves - unless they include slots for as yet unreleased options or something...? Curious!

It's coming with a good chunk of new models for the Space Marines so feels like a solid 1.5 update book. Just the kind of thing to lower the weight and bloat carrying and referencing to games and leaving them in an ideal position for the next book to add more new things.

And even at a casual glance we an all spot things for the Solar and Mechanicum that need models. Solar can easily have a bunch more tanks and at least one more troop boxed set - probably one themed around scouting and fast attack with rough-riders, regular sentinels and a few more infantry types.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Piousservant wrote:

I hope there is more to follow later, but who knows! Though if they're planning any more it wouldn't be hard (and surely would make sense?) to drop a little line at the end of one of the articles about the new book (assuming we get any others in addition to todays) saying some kind of "more to come in the future!"

Something like

Alongside these, you can expect to see legendary Formations such as the Theta-Garmon ‘Deathless’ Sub-Cohort and the White Scars Chogorian Warband. These open up exciting new opportunities for additional content in the future…

I’d still like to see alternative infantry sets for expanding specialist units. Like Assault Marines and Terminators.

I’ve no problem buying multiple sets to get decent sized units, but right now I’m gonna end up with a lot of Taccies I won’t often use.

One nice little thing I notice is, for example in the siege formation, one of the tactical stands has an apothecary on it - a way for us to use those redundant HQ pieces. Hopefully, we’ll see veteran stands that mix in those spare plasma gunners and missile launchers

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’d still like to see alternative infantry sets for expanding specialist units. Like Assault Marines and Terminators.

I’ve no problem buying multiple sets to get decent sized units, but right now I’m gonna end up with a lot of Taccies I won’t often use.

That's just getting you read for the 3rd edition where army size is double what it is now for a standard game.



And considering how big 40K armies are now compared to 2nd and even 3rd edition 40K and how big epic 40K and titan legion armies were - yeah its not a huge stretch ^^

Many Titans and Knights have seen significant points drops, as well as adjustments to Ion Save characteristics, while Armigers are now a Detachment of their own.

Hopefully this means that Armigers are finally on their way to plastic.

Also a very important Information:

These open up exciting new opportunities for additional content in the future…

I really, really hope that does means new models in the future; but being a bit of an Eeyore given the context in which it is used it could be that future "content" could literally just be a bunch of PDFs with extra "Iconic Detachments", a bit like the HH Exemplary Battles...

If the new book were on its own without any new models I'd be more concerned; but with it coming with a nice chunky update of SM models and the comments in the article all sound positive that there's more around the corner.

How long that corner is is anyone's guess but we might see another expansion much later in the year if we are lucky. It's still only August, we've got 3 full regular months to go beyond this and even just a Christmas bundle set would be sweet

With this book covering all existing units & detachments it makes me wonder if this is clearing the way for an updated rulebook / starter set and soft relaunch of LI as the next release. Likely not a full new edition of the game, just a revised book that incorporates the FAQ changes from earlier this year while also being thinner / lighter.
A new starter set can try and bring in more players by offering a different selection of models, such as pure marines like in Age of Darkness / Saturnine.

 xttz wrote:
With this book covering all existing units & detachments it makes me wonder if this is clearing the way for an updated rulebook / starter set and soft relaunch of LI as the next release. Likely not a full new edition of the game, just a revised book that incorporates the FAQ changes from earlier this year while also being thinner / lighter.
A new starter set can try and bring in more players by offering a different selection of models, such as pure marines like in Age of Darkness / Saturnine.

This does feel like the next step for the game. There's not much point in continuing with the current rule book with mostly outdated content.

I'm wondering if they'll announce it at Nova...

If its any hope Firestorm are apparently sitting on LOADS of kits right now for LI so they at least either over-ordered like mad or see it as a very strong selling game with a future

 Overread wrote:
If its any hope Firestorm are apparently sitting on LOADS of kits right now for LI so they at least either over-ordered like mad or see it as a very strong selling game with a future

Looking at their prices, it’s no wonder they’re sat on a load of kits. Can get them for cheaper elsewhere

 zedmeister wrote:

 Overread wrote:
If its any hope Firestorm are apparently sitting on LOADS of kits right now for LI so they at least either over-ordered like mad or see it as a very strong selling game with a future

Looking at their prices, it’s no wonder they’re sat on a load of kits. Can get them for cheaper elsewhere

Yeah, they look to generally be a couple of quid more expensive than most other places.

Surely it's at most LI 1.1 if it is the first significant revision?

I am a little disappointed that they seem to be balancing titans by making them cheaper. I would prefer to make them stronger so they still feel titanic. On the other hand, this does make it easier to field them, and I do so like the models.

The Warmaster stood out the most as being way too cheap compared to the other Titans, but to have free weapon options was also bizarre. Coming in from AT it just didn't feel right at all.

 sigkill wrote:
Surely it's at most LI 1.1 if it is the first significant revision?

I am a little disappointed that they seem to be balancing titans by making them cheaper. I would prefer to make them stronger so they still feel titanic. On the other hand, this does make it easier to field them, and I do so like the models.

As I see it the issue is that the game is "new" so armies are numerically smaller; which means you end up not being able to take many titan models because they get pointed up for their higher power.

Which is not as fun for those wanting to run titan forces or even to splice in a few allied titans to a regular army.

So bringing them down makes some sense in the short term. Long term if the game remains healthy is we should see the number of models in a standard game go up (just like we see in most others as the mature). I noted earlier somewhere that typical Epic 40K games and such would have a lot more individual models on the table.

Back in the Titan Legions and Epic 40,000 days my regular opponent and I were playing huge games with several warlords and a Imperator (or two) on one side. It'll be a while before we get to those heady days again.

Yeah but I think if the game continues to grow it can get there. Though we might not get an Imperator.

But yeah even the boxed starter set for the game came with a LOT of models.

Nice thing is by modern pricing LI is priced really nicely - esp once you factor in 3rd party stores.

If an Imperator or other Emperor Class titan is suited to any game? Its Combined Arms Epic.

First, you will hopefully be able to scuttle some troops inside its leg bastions and punch it right in the gyros.

Second, as with all Titans in Epic? It’s the smaller tanks rapidly knocking your shields down you need to worry about, as when well orchestrated, it can leave you vulnerable to Titans or things like Shadowswords doing the big damage.

In AT? I fear any such battle would rapidly boil down to just killing that big honking Titan.

It is very convenient that most boxes cost the same. Makes planning easy.

Unrelated to pricing, I also like that there's other rule sets that can be played with the same models. I look forward to trying both Epic 40000 and Epic Armageddon.

Kinda?

In the game, infantry is super duper cheap compared to tanks. And the main Marine infantry set doesn’t bring a lot of specialist troops (just two stands of plasma, missile, assault and Terminators).

Where I might only want a box of Predators to field a squadron? When it’s infantry, I kinda need multiples.

Hence I’d love to see a second one focussing on the specialist infantry units.

I feel like we've certainly scope for more infantry boxed sets.

What will be really interesting though is not just adding to current armies with stuff we know exists; but if GW gets bold enough to expand way beyond 32mm HH model lines. Heck perhaps something like the Sisters of Silence getting their army.

I wish they would releases Boxes with Mk2, Mk3 & Mk4 Armour and Tartaros Terminators.

Honestly I personally hope they don't. At this scale is there really that much difference on the infantry models to make it worth doing different marks of space marine power armour?

I mostly want more Assault Marines.

Dark Angels get Phosphex alongside your standard Jump Pack. Which means when assaulting an enemy held building? I’m going in one window, and they’re rapidly exiting via the next.

But I don’t find another four boxes of infantry to get another full sized unit (essential for building bouncing and eviction services) just to get them especially attractive right now.


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If they do then in different armour marks I wouldn’t be mad about it.

 Overread wrote:
I feel like we've certainly scope for more infantry boxed sets.

What will be really interesting though is not just adding to current armies with stuff we know exists; but if GW gets bold enough to expand way beyond 32mm HH model lines. Heck perhaps something like the Sisters of Silence getting their army.

Adding Sisters would require moving the timeline ahead by thousands of years, to the Age of Apostasy. I think that is unlikely. The most likely thing is probably that LI dies without moving past the Heresy, but if it gets further than that, then it is probably into the Scouring timeline, as that will be covered by a new book series, and most likely also the 32mm HH game. That does leave room for things like Orks and Eldar depending on how the stories unfold, and of course proper Chaos Space Marines.

I could see it maybe on dreadnoughts but for the infantry I feel like the tiny differences just really wouldn't be worth it to do different marks at this scale.

The only thing they could do is perhaps consider doing different marks for tanks and such which is more difficult at HH Scale. So keep the infantry the same and do themed tanks and such if they really wanted to over-sell on Marines.


Though honestly I hope they don't even do that - whilst its cool it always feels like creative death when GW starts on the "and here's 101 different space marines with tiny detail differences on the model"

When there are at least other factions, forces and designs that are entirely different and add more to the game.

Sister of Silence, not Sisters of Battle

 Overread wrote:
I could see it maybe on dreadnoughts but for the infantry I feel like the tiny differences just really wouldn't be worth it to do different marks at this scale.

The only thing they could do is perhaps consider doing different marks for tanks and such which is more difficult at HH Scale. So keep the infantry the same and do themed tanks and such if they really wanted to over-sell on Marines.

Though honestly I hope they don't even do that - whilst its cool it always feels like creative death when GW starts on the "and here's 101 different space marines with tiny detail differences on the model"

When there are at least other factions, forces and designs that are entirely different and add more to the game.

There's plenty of Heresy folk who would be put off LI because they think that their legion should use / avoid a specific armour mark. I have seen people say they don't want to start Heresy marines with MkVI, so I think it's absolutely worth adding another sprue of space marine infantry. However beyond two would likely be diminishing returns.

Personally I hope they do a new starter box with more infantry options, then switch focus to the units that Epic scale does best. Stalkers were a step into something unique for LI, give us more of that please James. Capitol Imperialis, Ordinatus Engines, more knights & titans, Imperator...

I think there are other priorities to fill out the game than do more infantry. The current infantry boxes are irritating yes, but prints are a valid option these days.

They sound like positive changes. The big FAQ in April made a ton of good corrections and this is the second half so to speak. Knights and Titans being cheaper was very much hoped for and points hikes for infantry also seem on the cards.

I’d like if formation spamming was addressed in some way, just to hard code in the combined arms of the game, which is the best part of it.

If for example pintel mount weapons on Rhinos are in addition to the twin linked bolter as its modelled, 8 plasma marines with assault in 4 Rhinos with bolters and meltas actually sounds like cool devastating short ranged fire. That’s two relatively small changes that make for big gameplay.

Being able to Apothearys to regular infantry bases is at least interesting even if it’s a small modelling nightmare if all your guys are built.

This seems very much the LI 1.5 treatment after a launch where the game was slightly undercooked.


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 xttz wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I could see it maybe on dreadnoughts but for the infantry I feel like the tiny differences just really wouldn't be worth it to do different marks at this scale.

The only thing they could do is perhaps consider doing different marks for tanks and such which is more difficult at HH Scale. So keep the infantry the same and do themed tanks and such if they really wanted to over-sell on Marines.

Though honestly I hope they don't even do that - whilst its cool it always feels like creative death when GW starts on the "and here's 101 different space marines with tiny detail differences on the model"

When there are at least other factions, forces and designs that are entirely different and add more to the game.

There's plenty of Heresy folk who would be put off LI because they think that their legion should use / avoid a specific armour mark. I have seen people say they don't want to start Heresy marines with MkVI, so I think it's absolutely worth adding another sprue of space marine infantry. However beyond two would likely be diminishing returns.

Personally I hope they do a new starter box with more infantry options, then switch focus to the units that Epic scale does best. Stalkers were a step into something unique for LI, give us more of that please James. Capitol Imperialis, Ordinatus Engines, more knights & titans, Imperator...

The stalkers were a very encouraging sign that things could get wild. Epic was the scale to do the wildest units and I’d love to see that back.
Shocked the Imperator hasn’t been printed yet, I wonder does the cathedral on the back clash too much with the HH visuals? My suggestion would be to make a more sensible top and then make it big enough to mount the Civitas Imperialis spire terrain on it.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Sister of Silence, not Sisters of Battle

Oh right, I misread. GW is hinting that they will do something about Custodes/Sisters in the HH soon, so it's possible that LI will also receive some attention. It's perhaps the single most obvious extension. It's also a chance to make Custodes truly like they are in the stories, because the scale allows it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

HidaO-Win wrote:

Shocked the Imperator hasn’t been printed yet, I wonder does the cathedral on the back clash too much with the HH visuals? My suggestion would be to make a more sensible top and then make it big enough to mount the Civitas Imperialis spire terrain on it.

Imperators supposedly didn't have the cathedrals during the HH, although the cover of the Mortis novel depicts the Dies Irae and that sure as the Warp looks like a castle on its back to me.

Anyone have the prices yet? Interested to know how much the thicc af Liber is going to be (which will give an estimate prive for the epub, being slightly less than that.. if its even coming as epub)

 tauist wrote:
Anyone have the prices yet? Interested to know how much the thicc af Liber is going to be (which will give an estimate prive for the epub, being slightly less than that.. if its even coming as epub)

The book is €51 / $62.50 (which I assume will be £40 like the main rulebook).

Tokens are €25 / $35. Cards weren't listed so will probably be direct-only.

Thanks!

That makes the epub somewhere in the 40-50€ range then. Still hoping we'll see an epub version.

Tokens and whirlwinds will set me back 66€

 xttz wrote:
There's plenty of Heresy folk who would be put off LI because they think that their legion should use / avoid a specific armour mark. I have seen people say they don't want to start Heresy marines with MkVI, so I think it's absolutely worth adding another sprue of space marine infantry. However beyond two would likely be diminishing returns.

Personally I hope they do a new starter box with more infantry options, then switch focus to the units that Epic scale does best. Stalkers were a step into something unique for LI, give us more of that please James. Capitol Imperialis, Ordinatus Engines, more knights & titans, Imperator...

I am hoping for new infantry boxes but with alternative loadouts. For example, Lascannons on MkIV with Meltaguns, Plasma Cannons on MkIII and so on. Mix in different dreadnought weapons, troop types, etc, it should give people enough to go for a different infantry set

I raged a bit at how frustrating those missile launcher marines were to put together, but it does mean they could replace the missile launcher part with some other weapon, without having to make a completely new sprue for the marine as well.

RazorEdge wrote:
I wish they would releases Boxes with Mk2, Mk3 & Mk4 Armour and Tartaros Terminators.

This, except swap Mk5 for Tartaros. Im fine with termies being passengers on the core infantry sprues. At this point they can put Saturnine on mk2, tartaros on mk4 and idk make up two more patterns of termie armor for 3/5. Save indomitus for the mk7 box.

The Imperator Titan in Titan Legions slowed that game, which was otherwise really fast to play, to a crawl with all of the plasma tracking and other gubbins.
If they tried to add this to Legions, the way the rest of the game is, you might get a turn in before the heat death of the universe

 xttz wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I could see it maybe on dreadnoughts but for the infantry I feel like the tiny differences just really wouldn't be worth it to do different marks at this scale.

The only thing they could do is perhaps consider doing different marks for tanks and such which is more difficult at HH Scale. So keep the infantry the same and do themed tanks and such if they really wanted to over-sell on Marines.

Though honestly I hope they don't even do that - whilst its cool it always feels like creative death when GW starts on the "and here's 101 different space marines with tiny detail differences on the model"

When there are at least other factions, forces and designs that are entirely different and add more to the game.

There's plenty of Heresy folk who would be put off LI because they think that their legion should use / avoid a specific armour mark. I have seen people say they don't want to start Heresy marines with MkVI, so I think it's absolutely worth adding another sprue of space marine infantry. However beyond two would likely be diminishing returns..

Absolutely anecdotal, but the few AoD players I spoke to at my local club who didnt want to play Legions because it was another big expenditure of time/money, on top of an already demanding game system at 28mm. A lot of AoD players are older with other time commitments, so I wouldn't be surprised if this was part of a larger trend.

 Pacific wrote:
The Imperator Titan in Titan Legions slowed that game, which was otherwise really fast to play, to a crawl with all of the plasma tracking and other gubbins.

Because with Chaos Power cards, seeing who was hit by 18+Wave Serpent wave attacks, titan up/down/left/right dice+armour save+critical hit die roll, rolling for 40+ regenerating troops laying down and getting back up, scattering templates, rolling for blast markers that stay on the table, the addition of a few seconds to allocate some plasma made all the difference. :-) I would hazard that the admin time/points spent ratio was quite favourable.

I could see GW making an alternate infantry kit, with MKIII or MKII marines on it... but I dont think it would make lots of sense for them to do all marks in Epic scale. One sleeker more high tech one, and other, more trimmy one and the small scale will do the rest..

So, we could see the "other" armour mark infantry coming with the other Terminator plate, and similarly with a separate Heavy waepon bit (Lascannon?), and two more Contemptor weapon loadouts.. but be more or less similar to the old kit in other respects. This way, there'd be some overlap, but still some reason for fans of either "mark" to buy the other kit as well..

Alternatively, they will go all Saturnine on us and make an infantry kit with MKII and Saturnine termies.. to match the 28mil setting

I’m not sure I’d want granular infantry weapons rules wise. Just feels unnecessarily detailed.

I'm sure we will get more infantry heavy weapon options down the line though. Perhaps not all of them, but probably at least Lascannons and HBs

That I think would probably be OK. But I don’t think I’d enjoy having to be reminded which tiny stand of tiny dudes is Volkite, and thus safe for my Landraiders to squish, and which are Multi-Meltas, every turn.

An exaggeration, yes. But still based on a genuine concern.

Just like we dont have all the sponson options for the vehicles, we probably wont have all the heavy weapon options for infantry. Otherwise, you could take Rhinos with flamers and plasma, and predators with volkite sponsons

Heck the sponson weapons we have now are almost impossible to tell apart. A Multilaser and Lasgun look basically identical unless you are right up close to the model.

Plus unlike 40K or HH you can't magnetize them . It makes sense on the main guns for tanks and on titans, but yeah supersmall weapons become basically so hard to tell modelling them is almost not worth it and even if you do there's a good chance most people won't want more models that look 99.9% the same etc...

Plus lets face it rather than going wide on individual model variety; LI should go wide on whole model variety.

Yup. Opposite of 40K and Inquisitor.

Epic Scale? Bolter is a Bolter is a Bolter. Your Support stands all have Plasma and a single ranged profile (bloody handy one too). Heavy Support is just Missile Launchers.

There? I don’t mind stylistic and sculpting differences. But would greatly prefer single weapon profiles.

40K? Now I’m more interested in the correct application of a given special weapon. But a Bolter is still a Bolter in your army.

Inquisitor/RPG? Ah, I see you are packing a Cantrell Pattern Lasgun, I myself favour the Birmingham Pattern Lasgun. Yes it’s a trade off against the Cantrell’s variable shot settings, but I find the Birmingham’s intensity settings applicable to a wider range of threats. I mean dear boy, why would I want three individual shots, when at the flick of the switch I can fire a single shot with four times the power? Truly, the Birmingham Pattern is the choice of all true Gentlemen.

They said, they want to make all Armour Mks recognizable in a possible Epic reboot, back when they announced AT.

High number of Vehicle Spnsoon option varity is OTT. Heavy Bolter and Lascanons are enough if you ask me..

RazorEdge wrote:
High number of Vehicle Spnsoon option varity is OTT. Heavy Bolter and Lascanons are enough if you ask me..

I'd like to see different sponsons for certain vehicles. For example, if they ever do the predator infernus, have them have heavy flamer sponsons, etc

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Inquisitor/RPG? Ah, I see you are packing a Cantrell Pattern Lasgun, I myself favour the Birmingham Pattern Lasgun. Yes it’s a trade off against the Cantrell’s variable shot settings, but I find the Birmingham’s intensity settings applicable to a wider range of threats. I mean dear boy, why would I want three individual shots, when at the flick of the switch I can fire a single shot with four times the power? Truly, the Birmingham Pattern is the choice of all true Gentlemen.

I think I can take a guess as to your preferred character in The Chaos Engine...

Honestly?

I’ve heard an old computer game of that name, but I’ve never played it.

That is a SHAME.

But yeah, they have a few steam-punk victorian-era characters to choose from, and one of them...is...THE GENTLEMAN. If you ever get to play one Amiga game in your life then make it The Chaos Engine.

I have played The Chaos Engine, and while it is in the dim and distant past I remember enjoying greatly.

SamusDrake wrote:
That is a SHAME.

But yeah, they have a few steam-punk victorian-era characters to choose from, and one of them...is...THE GENTLEMAN. If you ever get to play one Amiga game in your life then make it The Chaos Engine.

Ah, the Mad Baron Fortesque!

I miss the 90s video games. That one was a blast! I played the hell out of the Scientist with his laser. Super fast, super squishy.

I think he was called the Preacher elsewhere?

He certainly was! I think he was renamed the Scientist for the Megadrive and Snes ports. I'll have to load up Retropie to double check...

Absolutely, think granular details with weapon profiles slows things down way to much. It isnt needed at this scale.
Legions is already plagued by it, and it is one of the reasons why Epic Armageddon is a much better-designed game

MarkNorfolk wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
The Imperator Titan in Titan Legions slowed that game, which was otherwise really fast to play, to a crawl with all of the plasma tracking and other gubbins.

Because with Chaos Power cards, seeing who was hit by 18+Wave Serpent wave attacks, titan up/down/left/right dice+armour save+critical hit die roll, rolling for 40+ regenerating troops laying down and getting back up, scattering templates, rolling for blast markers that stay on the table, the addition of a few seconds to allocate some plasma made all the difference. :-) I would hazard that the admin time/points spent ratio was quite favourable.

Touche Not saying that was the only time-intensive part of the game (some of the Ork Mech vehicles are other good examples), but that part always seemed quite onerous. We used to play massive multiplayer games and it always seemed to be the guy operating the Imperator that had everyone else waiting.
Organising a massive participation game a few years ago the Imperator was the bit we dropped, as it had so many special rules and other gubbins, almost a game within itself (which it kind of was, as it was the centrepiece of the new Titan Legions Epic release, and I guess they had to justify that).

It did serve an important purpose. Preventing the Imperator from just Being A Win Button.

The power management stuff did add more to be done, turn to turn. But simple errors, like forgetting to put Plasma into your VSG’s could cost you heavily.

I don't know. Run the basics on 'green', First Fire if you can, and save up to fire a hefty salvo with the Annihilator on Maximal. Not too hard.

If you rolled well for your Plasma.

There are benefits of the more diversified LI weapon lists. It keeps the game interesting when playing smaller 1,000 to 1,500 point games which is what a lot of people can manage as most people don't have big armies to start.

In addition lascannon vs heavy bolter sponsons are a major tactical choice for tanks in the combined arms section of the game.

My issue is from a model perspective.

bolters and lasguns on the sponsons and such are utterly tiny details. Visually there's so little to tell them part compared to main weapons.

Furthermore they aren't something you can magnetize so either you have a fixed loadout; or proxy forever or you've got a huge number of tanks that you'll never field all at once.


So I'd rather have different tanks with different roles by weapon design than one core tank with a dozen different sponsons.



In the end sponsons are well into that region of where the more choice you create the more you will have players relying on proxies.

I remember having this argument, probably in this very thread, prior to the games release and im pretty sure sone of the folk complaining about weapon granularity now were the same people who shat on me for arguing against granularity then.

My take - at this scale man-portable and secondary weapons can and should have been reduced to archetypes. Lasguns and bolters are small arms. Heavy bolters, multilasers, and heavy stubbers are heavy anti-personnel weapons. Autocannons and plasma guns are anti-materiel weapons, missile launchers and lascannons are anti-tank weapons, etc. Cleaner, less to keep track of, still provides sufficient degrees of granularity between different options.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I remember having this argument, probably in this very thread, prior to the games release and im pretty sure sone of the folk complaining about weapon granularity now were the same people who shat on me for arguing against granularity then.

My take - at this scale man-portable and secondary weapons can and should have been reduced to archetypes. Lasguns and bolters are small arms. Heavy bolters, multilasers, and heavy stubbers are heavy anti-personnel weapons. Autocannons and plasma guns are anti-materiel weapons, missile launchers and lascannons are anti-tank weapons, etc. Cleaner, less to keep track of, still provides sufficient degrees of granularity between different options.

So, Epic: Armageddon, pretty much. Sounds good to me. Just needed a touch more granularity on the titans so they weren’t just a big ol’ sack of hit points and not much else but otherwise still the best Epic ruleset.

Ive never touched any of the past iterations of epic so i wpuldnt really know

Yep that's Armageddon you're describing there chaos0xomega. I was once fortunate enough to speak to one of the game's developers. He said they couldn't get the shooting mechanics nailed down, and at the 11th hour Jervis Johnson came up with the idea of splitting 'anti-tank' and 'anti-armour' in the unit weapon profiles. At that scale you don't need to know if its armour piercing shells or phased plasma death rays if they have a similar effect. It basically just means that the game is vastly more straightforward to play, and you're not stood there with a rulebook throughout the game.

Yeah Epic scale games should be all about having massive fights with loads of units on the table. At that scale you want some granular elements but not too much that it slows down.

If you simulate too much it ends up a skirmish rule-set and then it just slows everything down way too much.

On the flipside if you don't have enough niches you can end up with everything being the same as everything else; which can let it be simple but can also make it harder to add more units. But you can still find a few niches, esp as you get much more of a combined arms experience in a standard game.

AT/AP, and indeed LI’s third of Light AT opens up just the right amount of design room for Epic scale if you ask me.

You can have super accurate infantry stands, which can’t realistically bother tanks ever.

You’ve honking great anti-tank weapons which barely tickle infantry.

You’ve a few rare weapons which are traitless, and so can tackle anything.

Light AT is the sneaky one. Sure, I can’t inflict weapon stat armour modifiers on your tanks and Titans…..but if you let me round your flank or rear? Those modifiers are fair game.

I thought having Light, Anti-tank and Light AT as disadvantages was actually pretty good game design for siloing off weapons into niche rolls.

LIs big mistake was doing too many weapon keywords that people can't memorise in the base set.

If it was Light, Anti-tank, Light AT, Accurate, Assault, Demolisher, Point Defense, Skyfire, No cover, Engine Killer, Rend, Blast and Firestorm to start it would have come off better as a single page of text.

But then the rulebook isn't comprehensive

Honestly, whilst I appreciate they wanted a more old-school ruleset, I can't fathom why they didn't at least lift the AT/AP approach from EA. Would have removed the need for the Light and AT keywords and actually allowed for some more nuanced options with weapons having different modifiers for AT/AP as well, plus you could still have a Light AT keyword layered on it as well.

I think the challenge is in getting the level of granularity right - given the intended scale of the game, too much is clearly an issue but I suspect they understand their audience in liking having "missile launcher" infantry vs just "AT infantry". Though it does come with risks as a more abstracted "AT infantry" option would mean you could do a future MK3 infantry set and have them with lascannons, without needing new rules, whilst still giving different cosmetic options (which would be nice).

I do like having the AT vs anti-infantry options for sponsons on all the tanks though. And just to counter those who say magnetising at this scale isn't possible...



Ian Malcom might question whether you should, but you definitely could...!

It is a toss up.

EA of course gave all (I think!) weapons both an AT and AP score. A rare few (Imperial Guard Infantry) would have AT-, showing they can’t attack vehicles at all.

Light, Light AT and AT does the same thing, just in a different way.

On balance I do prefer the LI way. By having the three (and the fourth No Trait), we get different options with different applications.

On Tanks? Sure, Heavy Bolter Sponsons can only impact infantry. But thanks to defensive fire rules? They’re still somewhat desirable on otherwise dedicated anti-armour platforms. Helps dissuade Infanty from going Tank Tipping, which can be highly effective due to how outnumbering works. Heck, if you can get enough quality infantry mobbing a Titan, you can tip those too.

Either way I still think flamethrower sponsons should add +1 CAF to tanks. That’s kind of the whole point of them.

I also don’t know how much GW branding requires all the weapons to have unique trademarkable names to with unique unit titles.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It is a toss up.

EA of course gave all (I think!) weapons both an AT and AP score. A rare few (Imperial Guard Infantry) would have AT-, showing they can’t attack vehicles at all.

Light, Light AT and AT does the same thing, just in a different way.

On balance I do prefer the LI way. By having the three (and the fourth No Trait), we get different options with different applications.

On Tanks? Sure, Heavy Bolter Sponsons can only impact infantry. But thanks to defensive fire rules? They’re still somewhat desirable on otherwise dedicated anti-armour platforms. Helps dissuade Infanty from going Tank Tipping, which can be highly effective due to how outnumbering works. Heck, if you can get enough quality infantry mobbing a Titan, you can tip those too.

Yeah, except the EA way gives you the same options and applications as the LI way (in fact actually more - given you have a weapons with variations like AP -1 / AT -3 etc) and does so without using keywords, it is just more elegant and has lower cognitive load to achieve exactly the same (and actually better) set of options/abilities.

E.g. Using AP/AT; A weapon with no traits could be -3 / -3, a weapon with AT would just be 0 / -3, a weapon with Light AT would just be -1 / 0 and a Light weapon would be 0 / -

And variants on the above, such as -1 / -4 for some of the bigger AT guns, getting at least a little bit against infantry (if you wanted) or vice versa some of the heavier anti-infantry weapons that you don't want to be too good against tanks could be -3 / -1 and so on, or even AT weapons that can't target infantry at all (if there was something like that, e.g. - / -2 etc) all things you just can't have in the LI approach...

As expected, the Old Books disappeared from the Warhammer Site.

The Dark Mechanicum Book wasn't that old.

I wonder if we will see a "Tallarn Part 2" Book in the future.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/7qdvbegj/legions-of-the-mechanicum-four-fancy-forge-world-forces/

I like the blue Warhound with the ye'olde armour. I wonder if that's a new FW upgrade kit on the way.

Both the Warhound Conversion Beam Dissolutor and the Graviton Destructor dropped off warhammer.com in May 2025, new plastic kit maybe?

I think existing kits can build every other weapon.

That or a 3D print and conversion
Battlebling have done a couple of armours like that

https://battleblingstore.co.uk/products/oldeus-pattern-conversion-kit-compatible-with-adeptus-titanicus-warhound-titans-pack-of-2

SamusDrake wrote:
I like the blue Warhound with the ye'olde armour. I wonder if that's a new FW upgrade kit on the way.

I thought it was the Battle Bling Oldeus kit, but the spikes are wrong.

EDIT - Ninja'd ;-)

No! We're holding Warcom to this!

New Warhound incoming!!!

Considering I just bought BB upgrade kits it would stand to reason that GW would then turn around and make them

Given: Valrak = "Hunchback"

We'll see what the Hunchback has to say about this!

HidaO-Win wrote:
Both the Warhound Conversion Beam Dissolutor and the Graviton Destructor dropped off warhammer.com in May 2025, new plastic kit maybe?

I think existing kits can build every other weapon.

All bar the Reaver graviton cannon has gone sold out. With any luck, we'll see a new kit


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SamusDrake wrote:
Given: Valrak = "Hunchback"

We'll see what the Hunchback has to say about this!

The hunchback says many things

I hope the warlord gets a third weapon sprue as well if the warhound and reaver are getting new ones again. Lot of warlord options missing in plastic. And poor warbringer is missing its second main gun and 2 arms still. Plus the lucius warlord and mark delta warbringer heads

Honestly, I’d love some alternative heads, armour plating and the like alongside the weapons.

I would love to see a Banelord upgrade kit

I might have missed the news but was I the only one under the assumption that the new book would also include the core rules to be a all in one book? But that doesn't seem to be the case since it says a copy of the rulebook is also necessary for play

some, like me, hoped that it will replace the core rules, but it was never really mentioned before

at least for me this is kind of a deal breaker as updated rules at least as download to go with the new book would be good

It's not possible to order the cards from the French webstore...

And one of everything. But not the cards, not fussed for those.

GW were pretty clear the new book is basically a combined version of the previously released expansion/campaign books with just the game content.

It compliments rather than replaces the core rule book so think of it like a 1.5 addon book.


If you've already got the previous expansion books its probably not worth picking up unless you just want one book to carry for that expansion content. It's ideally placed for people newer jumping on board or those who want one single book to carry instead of several.


If this were a full new rulebook compendium GW would likely have bundled it with a bigger more showier launch. Though to be fair the Space Marines are getting a very chunky update alongside this book.

 Matrindur wrote:
I might have missed the news but was I the only one under the assumption that the new book would also include the core rules to be a all in one book? But that doesn't seem to be the case since it says a copy of the rulebook is also necessary for play

When this was announced they said "With this and the core rules to the game, you have everything you need to build Legions Imperialis armies, and use them on the tabletop". I'm taking that to mean we'll eventually see a new revised core rules book similar to the softback A5 book they put out a couple of years into Adeptus Titanicus. There's no point in leaving the current rulebook in print when around half of it is superseded by this Liber and recent FAQs. The rules & points changes affect a majority of detachments in the game, and I don't see how GW can make a viable errata for the old rulebook & cards as it would need to be huge.

For anyone curious Goonhammer have a pretty thorough review of the rules changes across multiple articles linked here:
https://www.goonhammer.com/goonhammer-reviews-liber-strategia-for-legions-imperialis/

Key points:
Lots of small tweaks to marine units, like Armoured on terminators or a 5++ on contemptors
Big outliers like Ogryns and missile marines have been reigned in
Solar armour gets more durable, with 2+ save on more tanks and 3 wounds on super-heavies
Knights get improved armour & ion saves plus significant points cuts
Titans get point cuts and most gain an extra wound. Warlords gain 2 voids while warmasters are the only ones to get a needed points hike.

Ogryns got reigned in by a points increase and 'Bulky', but the 2 wounds per stand will come in handy.
Plasma blastguns getting an extra shot is nice. Might field some stormblades now.

The only change that I think is a little painful is the choice to take the once decorative top-gun and make it an upgrade. Nice to get them represented but complicates builds a bit.

Overall feels like points have come down in general and survivability went up. Also nice to see the Stormhammer lose that baffling "front arc" on its turreted gun.

The increased survivability on a lot of things kind of hints that we are looking at them growing the game to larger armies without ending up with everything being killed off in two turns.

 Overread wrote:
GW were pretty clear the new book is basically a combined version of the previously released expansion/campaign books with just the game content.

It compliments rather than replaces the core rule book so think of it like a 1.5 addon book.


If you've already got the previous expansion books its probably not worth picking up unless you just want one book to carry for that expansion content. It's ideally placed for people newer jumping on board or those who want one single book to carry instead of several.


If this were a full new rulebook compendium GW would likely have bundled it with a bigger more showier launch. Though to be fair the Space Marines are getting a very chunky update alongside this book.

It's definitely still worth picking up even if you have the expansions, as they've done quite a significant balance pass across almost everything. The Goonhammer reviews give a pretty thorough account of all the changes, and from that there actually looks like GW have actually done quite a good job of it. Not perfect - IMO not doing more to tweak/balance the Legion traits is a shame - but overall a lot of really good changes from points drops on Knights and smaller titans (and all the titans also get an extra wound) through to the changes to plasma and missiles and also fixing a few of the little niggles like proteus speeders actually being able to take a unit of just meltas and Auxilia tarantulas unit sizes being consistent with the models.

I have to say I was undecided on pre-ordering, but after reading the Goonhammer articles I've just put my pre-order in with my FLGS. And the changes also make me more positive about the future of LI, I was wondering how much this would just be a low-effort amalgam of the previous expansions but it isn't just that and looks like a pretty comprehensive fix for the game. In an ideal world shouldn't have been needed (this is what the launch edition of LI should have been rules/balance-wise), and I do begrudge GW for basically making us pay to beta test the game but it is what it is.

New model-wise, I think it's a shame the Vindicators weren't half and half with the laser destroyers - the same as the whirlwinds and I think I'd have also preferred both vehicles to have be six to a box with a full set of both options (same as predators) but that's just me. Going to leave model purchases for now, but definitely in for some Cerberus' in the future and probably some whirlwinds.

Quite surprised the neither of the whirlwind variants got Skyfire as a form of attack.

Maybe the "no one ever bought it" anti-air model is going to come back for the Marines in 30K

 Overread wrote:
Maybe the "no one ever bought it" anti-air model is going to come back for the Marines in 30K

The Hunter?

Two detachments of missile Tarantulas and a single one of Deredos was enough to clear 3 Thunderbolts and 3 Marauders of the table, but now Marauders a 2 wounds each...

Really solid update for me, only one questionable decision was Domitar loosing a missile shot. Otherwise everything looks fantastic. Would have liked a more thorough redo of Legion traits but can't have everything. Solid update.

Wow, quite the update. Some standouts for me:

Palisades getting their own detachment is a nice little choice
Alpha Legion can't inilftrate or ourflank vehicles anymore (Booo!)
Leman Russ variants now vary in points stopping Vanquishers from being the autotakes
Malcadors getting improved as well as points drop
Warmaster up in points to 850
Knights universal points drop
Outrider points drop

MarkNorfolk wrote:
Quite surprised the neither of the whirlwind variants got Skyfire as a form of attack.

That's the Hyperios. We may see it

AA dedicated units in general are missing - SA don't have the hydra (or 30K equivalent). I do wonder if part of that is how air works right now and if perhaps more AA might come along if air gets an adjustment to become a larger component of armies

I’d just like to take this moment to once again nod my approval for the Whirlwinds taking design inspiration from the original Epic ones, and the 40K conversion offered in White Dwarf.

Amazing what you can do with a 40mm base and some plasticard.

It looks like the bottom of a lego.

 JB wrote:
It looks like the bottom of a lego.

So pinning checks?

Hey guys, the maker of the warhound commented...

No conversion kit, unfortunately.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 JB wrote:
It looks like the bottom of a lego.

So pinning checks?

Definitely, but now that I look again, MarkNorfolk is right. That is half of a 40mm square base. I just got a couple of them with some Chaos Spawn. Maybe I need to make a Whirlwind.

 JB wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 JB wrote:
It looks like the bottom of a lego.

So pinning checks?

Definitely, but now that I look again, MarkNorfolk is right. That is half of a 40mm square base. I just got a couple of them with some Chaos Spawn. Maybe I need to make a Whirlwind.

No great wisdom. I was there, 3000 years ago…..

Well, the Saturday pre-release article now mentions "* These cards will not be available in France."

Thanks for making us second class citizens, GW... Note that I wasn't asking for a translation.

I'm not from France, so I COULD not even care...

But why, that so Stupid and makes no sense!

Do you think we could become future expansions in Journal Format?

Yes, we should see the journal format going forward.

TOW, HH and MESBG are already there, and with so many games on the go the journal format is more cost effective than hardbacks.

I think we wont see journals until 2nd edition.

There's also still campaign books as a focus and the line between "journal" and "campaign book" is basically just a marketing one for the most part.

I feel like HH 1.0 must be at a kind of mid-point for GW to be releasing the compendium which I'm hoping suggests that they've a bunch more books coming before a 2.0 edition.

Perhaps a bunch more kits for SA and Mechanicum; maybe a new plastic upgrade sprue for the warhounds and other titans which have lost some resin weapon choices.

Then a new edition perhaps with a new faction launch alongside it to really boost interest.

They could easily just spend the next LI release wave on updating existing things that don't require any rules changes.
Two plastic armiger kits, more titan weapon sprues, terrain, and starter / battlegroup sets to draw in new players before Xmas.

Then pick up with new units again in 2026.

 xttz wrote:
They could easily just spend the next LI release wave on updating existing things that don't require any rules changes.
Two plastic armiger kits, more titan weapon sprues, terrain, and starter / battlegroup sets to draw in new players before Xmas.

Then pick up with new units again in 2026.

Agreed, maybe focus on Dark Mechanicum for Traitors and Talons/Custodes for Loyalists, and cover some of the missing units- macrocarids, aurox, carnodons, saturnine, fellblades, ordinatus minoris

I could see a new Infantry Set with MK2,

why them and not Mk4, or Mk3?

-New 28mm HH Kits
-Early Heresy compatible (Istvaan V Setting, analog to "Big HH")
-Wide Spread to all Legions
-Better fitting design and narrative wise for some Legions
-Usable for a Creat Crusade Expansion

SamusDrake wrote:
Yes, we should see the journal format going forward.

TOW, HH and MESBG are already there, and with so many games on the go the journal format is more cost effective than hardbacks.

Journals could be a blessing, allowing smaller releases more regularly despite the DLC feeling of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 xttz wrote:
They could easily just spend the next LI release wave on updating existing things that don't require any rules changes.
Two plastic armiger kits, more titan weapon sprues, terrain, and starter / battlegroup sets to draw in new players before Xmas.

Then pick up with new units again in 2026.

Agreed, maybe focus on Dark Mechanicum for Traitors and Talons/Custodes for Loyalists, and cover some of the missing units- macrocarids, aurox, carnodons, saturnine, fellblades, ordinatus minoris

Yeah, and hopefully we'll see some of the smaller corrupted dæmon engines like the Greater Brass Scorpion or Decimators and the like for Dark Mechanicum. Maybe even see the return of the Hell Blade/Talon or even the Harbinger Bomber

Was there another Campaign which Custodes involved except Prosperos and Terra?

Would say Custodes could come as Part of Prospero Themed Journals.

Custodes are perhaps the only alternative Marine forces that could come with LI in a serious way. Since their tanks, vehicles and even warriors are all armed and designed differently to standard Marines.

So GW could certainly launch them with a mechanicum sized release.

Gawd, I've been tempted to make a travel version of Burning of Prospero with just a box of Astartes Infantry. Some Custodes would be appreciated!

I think they could introduce a new boxed game that's a mix up of Saturnine and Custodes. That would be soooo sweet!

Have we had any sneaky peakys at the new unit rules?

Hoping to have a peep, and decided if perhaps I want more than one box of the shiny new toys.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Have we had any sneaky peakys at the new unit rules?

Hoping to have a peep, and decided if perhaps I want more than one box of the shiny new toys.

Perhaps!

Oooh! Nice one!

Think I’m good with a box of each for now. But I may want to double up on Whirlwind and Scorpius

Agreed, whirldwind seem pretty good for the points.They're getting released next saturday, right? Might even warrant an excursion to my LGS.. And a set of plastic tokens, obviously.. After the Whirlwinds I think I have every model which ever got rules for Epic Space Marine 1st edition/AT, and can stop collecting LI stuff further, until I can decide if I indeed want to be playing LI and not just play old Epics with the models..

As I get older, I am starting to feel that perhaps I just want to play the old 1st editions of these games.. If I want to keep playing a current game, maybe just stick to Kill Team. Us old timers dont enjoy edition churn as much as the whippersnappers..

Yup, next Saturday.

Think I will indulge in a second Whirlwind box.

Not entirely convinced I’d want a squadron larger than four for either. Their main appeal is Barrage, so no need for LoS, and they’ve a decent rate of fire at two shots regardless of flavour.

But I think I’d be interested in fielding a couple of squadrons of each or either,

 xttz wrote:

Perhaps!

Interesting that the Imperial Fists rules still talk about Plasma Cannons, Autocannons and Heavy Bolters on infantry units which still don't exists yet if I remember correctly.
This was the biggest indicator for further infantry releases back when the game released but since nothing happened until now I was thinking it was just a mistake but since they left it in that doesn't seem to be the case?

IIRC the original rule only only mentioned the plasma cannons, lascannons, and autocannons. The heavy bolter line was added for Liber Strategia, implying that they are still planning to add stuff.

That’s a nice spot all the same.

More infantry pls.

chaos0xomega wrote:
IIRC the original rule only only mentioned the plasma cannons, lascannons, and autocannons. The heavy bolter line was added for Liber Strategia, implying that they are still planning to add stuff.

This was actually supposed to be there since day one. If you check out the following page on Night Lords, the paragraph randomly begins with "heavy bolters". That was fixed in the digital version of the rulebook but anyone with a print copy can still see it.

 tauist wrote:
Agreed, whirldwind seem pretty good for the points.They're getting released next saturday, right? Might even warrant an excursion to my LGS.. And a set of plastic tokens, obviously.. After the Whirlwinds I think I have every model which ever got rules for Epic Space Marine 1st edition/AT, and can stop collecting LI stuff further, until I can decide if I indeed want to be playing LI and not just play old Epics with the models..

Despite the new book fixing and rebalacing most units, Whirldwinds seem quite powerful, and way better and more efficient than SAX Basiliks.

 xttz wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
IIRC the original rule only only mentioned the plasma cannons, lascannons, and autocannons. The heavy bolter line was added for Liber Strategia, implying that they are still planning to add stuff.

This was actually supposed to be there since day one. If you check out the following page on Night Lords, the paragraph randomly begins with "heavy bolters". That was fixed in the digital version of the rulebook but anyone with a print copy can still see it.

My latest Box with Rulebook had this fixed. But yes, the first Runs had that Error.

Picked my pre order copy of the book this morning from my local Warhammer store but was a little surprised none of the new releases were on the shelves.
When I asked was informed none had been sent nor any of the books.

I appreciate my local WH store only has the LI box set in and very few Age of Darkness kits in stock (only 2 tanks and 2 Marine boxes no other factions) but thought they may have had a few of the new items in.

GW has finite stock so it might be they prioritise based on regional sales amounts. If your local doesn't tend to sell much it might be their allotment just went to another store with a higher sales turnover/more pre-orders.

My Local Store has 2 Starter Sets and up to 4x SM Infantry, 2x Drop Pods, 4x Rhinos, 2x Kratos and 2x Baneblade.

With new Releases, they "could" have 1x the newest Book 3-4x of random new Boxes.

 Overread wrote:
GW has finite stock so it might be they prioritise based on regional sales amounts. If your local doesn't tend to sell much it might be their allotment just went to another store with a higher sales turnover/more pre-orders.

I can tell you all store stock is centrally allocated. My guess is except for the largest stores, it’s the main games that are prioritised, with the “virtual warehouse” covering everything else.

Me? I now need to dig out my glue. I’ve got teeny tiny tanks to build!

I visited my local GW yesterday, and while at least 90% of the store space was dedicated 40k/AoS, it did seem like they specifically attempted to have 2-3 boxes of every current GW game, including LI (but not including AT). Specifically they had the intro box, as well as I think a box of Baneblades and a box of Rhinos, which seems pretty random. It's a tiny GW but in a rather central location with heavy foot traffic, so it is pretty clear to me that its main purpose is to attract new customers, not to service established ones playing niche games.

It’s a bit of both. Instore ordering terminal and free delivery to store (think that’s still a thing? Been ages since I used test facility) serves those already involved. But the stores are geared to showing newcomers the ropes. From the intro game and painting a model to show what it’s about, to Sunday Beginners to help coach those first few weeks.

 sigkill wrote:
I visited my local GW yesterday, and while at least 90% of the store space was dedicated 40k/AoS, it did seem like they specifically attempted to have 2-3 boxes of every current GW game, including LI (but not including AT). Specifically they had the intro box, as well as I think a box of Baneblades and a box of Rhinos, which seems pretty random. It's a tiny GW but in a rather central location with heavy foot traffic, so it is pretty clear to me that its main purpose is to attract new customers, not to service established ones playing niche games.

I would say this is pretty typical of a lot of GW stores. The point of entry has always been 40k or AoS. Even at the Warhammer shop in Tottenham Court Road, you have to specifically ask for AT and they dig out a box from their store room for you to sift through!

Wanted to buy the (German) Liber Mechanicum and Questoris for big HH on release day, and neither the local GW nor the FLGS had it (and still don't). Had to order it.

My local WH-Store even had 2x the AT Starter Box, few weeks before the Launch of LI....

Both sold shorty before LI, of couse.

I still dont see any mention of the new Liber on Warhammer Digital.

Does this mean LI became "dead trees only" out of the flocking blue, mid edition?!

SUPER DISAPPOINTING if so..

I read on Discord that the EU recently changed rules for digital publications, requiring them all to be handicap accessible.

GW may either not be ready to comply with that, or don't sell enough epub rulebooks for it to be worth doing.

Edit: some were speculating that LI will move to the softback journal format after this compendium, which would at least mean slightly less less paper to carry around.

But what does that even mean for a digital publication? You can already change the size on the screen using whatever reader you've got.

And I can't see companies re-writing and formatting every digital book to be wildly different to physical print ones.

The European Accessibility Act (EAA) takes effect at the end of June 2025. This law mandates that digital products (including ebooks) meet minimum accessibility standards for all consumers

The key to making your EPUB ebook accessible lies in the file structure and data included. Here is a short list of the most important features of an accessible EPUB.

- Reflowable Text: This allows your content to adjust to different screen sizes and orientations.
- Semantic HTML: Use properly structured HTML to organize your content, making navigation easier for screen readers.
- Alt Text for Images: Include descriptive text for every image. This makes visual content meaningful for readers with visual impairments.
- Accessible Navigation: Create a comprehensive table of contents and clearly define reading order.
- Metadata: Add metadata like the title, language, and accessibility features (e.g., "screen reader compatible") to your EPUB.
- Font Adjustability: Use fonts and formatting that accommodate visually impaired readers. Fonts like OpenDyslexic can make a significant difference.

Pdfs are not included in the EAA and the above key notes are handled automatically by most programms to create ebooks

So if this is the reason GW doesn't want to make digital content it is more like an excuse rather than any technical problem

 kodos wrote:

The European Accessibility Act (EAA) takes effect at the end of June 2025. This law mandates that digital products (including ebooks) meet minimum accessibility standards for all consumers

The key to making your EPUB ebook accessible lies in the file structure and data included. Here is a short list of the most important features of an accessible EPUB.

- Reflowable Text: This allows your content to adjust to different screen sizes and orientations.
- Semantic HTML: Use properly structured HTML to organize your content, making navigation easier for screen readers.
- Alt Text for Images: Include descriptive text for every image. This makes visual content meaningful for readers with visual impairments.
- Accessible Navigation: Create a comprehensive table of contents and clearly define reading order.
- Metadata: Add metadata like the title, language, and accessibility features (e.g., "screen reader compatible") to your EPUB.
- Font Adjustability: Use fonts and formatting that accommodate visually impaired readers. Fonts like OpenDyslexic can make a significant difference.

Pdfs are not included in the EAA and the above key notes are handled automatically by most programms to create ebooks

So if this is the reason GW doesn't want to make digital content it is more like an excuse rather than any technical problem

This might actually be it. I've peeked inside GWs epubs at times.. the code looks nasty.. perhaps even made deliberately obtuse so as to make ripping the stuff more difficult.. Could certainly make "accessibility" a problem..?

I only got one once when they first came out and it was one of the worst digital products I have seen and not using any advantage of the epub format but being worse than a straight pdf

If they haven't improved over the years and now just chancel it because making an actual good product is too much, there is not much to say

And as long GW doesn't go after new recruit, battlescribe and wahapedia, any argument about easy ripping off isn't really one (as if you need a bad ebook to get the rules and lore, you get better quality elsewhere)

 tauist wrote:


This might actually be it. I've peeked inside GWs epubs at times.. the code looks nasty.. perhaps even made deliberately obtuse so as to make ripping the stuff more difficult.. Could certainly make "accessibility" a problem..?

Given how many day 1 rulebook PDFs originated as epub files I'm not surprised they've been stopped. I have just checked and noticed that the most recent epubs for TOW were in March, while Cathay released in June didn't get one.

To get back on topic slightly, I wonder if this compendium means that LI will also move to the same cheaper journal format as TOW & HH instead of hardback expansions.

Dunno who designed the Heavy Flamers for the Mastodon. But they’re a sadist.

A sadist, I tells ya!

 xttz wrote:


To get back on topic slightly, I wonder if this compendium means that LI will also move to the same cheaper journal format as TOW & HH instead of hardback expansions.

They're also going that route with MESBG, so I'd say that's very likely. But more interesting is that the current core rule book is now heavily outdated and worth replacing...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno who designed the Heavy Flamers for the Mastodon. But they’re a sadist.

A sadist, I tells ya!

What, you don’t regularly assemble models using a binocular magnifier, two pairs of No. 7 forceps, and a foot-switch activated polystyrene cement micro-dispenser?

No. I usually rely on sosig fingers, the left set having nerve damage. And swearing.

Ah, I see the problem. Try swearing in mandarin. If that doesn’t work, ancient Celtic curses are a good fallback, but beware of accidentally calling up your ancestors.

To be fair, it’s the first LI kit I’ve struggled with. Gonna cop out on the second one and just use the Heavy Bolters.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno who designed the Heavy Flamers for the Mastodon. But they’re a sadist.

A sadist, I tells ya!

100% agree. The contact points for the flamers are tiny and it's hard to tell if the pieces are properly joined. While painting I discovered that one of them hadn't stuck properly and managed to knock it off with light drybrushing.

The upper turret was also a bit annoying, as when components get that small it's easy to glue them a fraction out of position and not notice.