For whomever was wondering the other day, the Tunneler's prow weapon does replace its transport bay. You can still add up to two extra transport bays, though.
I think of it more as a transport for 5 guys plus the 2 crew, that has the capacity for 5 extra guys to throw themselves in the back and scream THEY'RE COMING GET US THE feth OUT OF HERE and still accelerate and go over bumps if they all hold on to handles and tethers!
Really glad they made multi-basing standard. It differentiates the ruleset and its never good to try and please everyone at once! For those who don't like it there is always firefight!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also maybe they can fund some attractive stands for multi-basing now?
I think the bed is a large electro magnet that activate when it's moving, and the troopers who use it have attachment plates in their parts of their armour
I think that's how it transports cargo too, firmly stuck down by magnets
DaveC wrote: The BoW article also has a scale image for the Mule next to a current corp trooper
Spoiler:
Sigh... So close, Mantic, so close...
The tray is on a much sharper angle than I had thought from the initial isometric sketch. Which makes it look thoroughly impractical for a troop transport. Or for a cargo vehicle, for that matter.
Really glad they made multi-basing standard. It differentiates the ruleset and its never good to try and please everyone at once! For those who don't like it there is always firefight!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also maybe they can fund some attractive stands for multi-basing now?
The tray is on a much sharper angle than I had thought from the initial isometric sketch. Which makes it look thoroughly impractical for a troop transport. Or for a cargo vehicle, for that matter.
You know, the bed of the truck could actually be flat and it's just the outer section that's angled. The profile image shows that there's potentially enough room for it to be flat.
MLaw wrote: Wow.. that thing is tiny.. hopefully that's just a case of the person doing the scale shot being daft.
If you look at the pintle mounted weapon, and assume it is meant to be fired by so hero standing in the bed, the scaling he used seems to be pretty close.
Again, I like it as a small SF Polaris/DPV type vehicle(though the down tilted bed is dumb). It just does not work as a transport vehicle for a whole squad of guys/10 man transport thing. Since I am not likely to use it in WarPath anyway, a couple may come in handy for other things.
It reminds me of my daughter's Polaris ACE, but with an armored cab.
The Mule has the same problem as the rules. Should be designed for less models. Not suited for mass combat. Just sayin I really like the design philosophy behind it but I can't get behind 10 fully geared troops piling off of that thing.
Barzam wrote: You know, the bed of the truck could actually be flat and it's just the outer section that's angled. The profile image shows that there's potentially enough room for it to be flat.
The panel lines in the bed of the truck do not aim towards the vanishing point, so the bed of the truck is either tilted or designed as a test, a leap of faith from the lion's head.
MLaw wrote: Wow.. that thing is tiny.. hopefully that's just a case of the person doing the scale shot being daft.
If you look at the pintle mounted weapon, and assume it is meant to be fired by so hero standing in the bed, the scaling he used seems to be pretty close.
Again, I like it as a small SF Polaris/DPV type vehicle(though the down tilted bed is dumb). It just does not work as a transport vehicle for a whole squad of guys/10 man transport thing. Since I am not likely to use it in WarPath anyway, a couple may come in handy for other things.
It reminds me of my daughter's Polaris ACE, but with an armored cab.
Looking at the pintle weapon (which I assumed was a crew-served weapon not a combine on a pintle) I would have suspected the infantry to be about 3/4 the size of the one they showed. Look at the driver compartment.. he's got no leg room.. One ditch too hard and his knees are gone. Then the poor guy is on disability.. and nobody wants that!
The slope on the back is only for when the troop launcher is in the upward position. It lowers flat while the troops are getting in. When it's time to launch them into battle it springs into action!
DaveC wrote: The BoW article also has a scale image for the Mule next to a current corp trooper
Spoiler:
Sigh... So close, Mantic, so close...
The tray is on a much sharper angle than I had thought from the initial isometric sketch. Which makes it look thoroughly impractical for a troop transport. Or for a cargo vehicle, for that matter.
And it should have been around twice that size.
One more for the 'Almost...' pile.
Yup. I had both thoughts when I saw it.
On top of that, Warpath has gone with multibasing, so that, the "detailed" sketch and the lack of renders for the Corp figures (hooray for rushed campaigns) means I'm much more indifferent to the whole thing. Looks like I'll probably drop to a dollar or so at the end of this and see how the PM plays out. Probably get a bunch of $1 infantry and might get a 3-pack of these buggies for conversion.
Re Mule: we've already said that it will be scaled appropriately to carry two squads of troopers and are open to the idea of dropping the back/adding a cover to it, if it really needs it.
Re Mule: we've already said that it will be scaled appropriately to carry two squads of troopers and are open to the idea of dropping the back/adding a cover to it, if it really needs it.
Y'all can stop now.
Mantic has said a lot of things in the past.. I really don't feel like them hand-waving the concern away is a concrete answer/fix..
Because a note in the comments of the KS saying that they're open to fixing the issues fixes everything and will always be adhered to. You're right. /sarcasm
You don't think that the more feedback they get on the size and shape the more likely they are to fix it? Because that's how this works.
If no-one said anything, you'd get whatever they showed. All the time, except when they changed the materials or whatever else in the deal and told you later.
They also said they're painting over the highlight on the dropship ridge so people stop complaining about seams.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azazelx wrote: Because a note in the comments of the KS saying that they're open to fixing the issues fixes everything and will always be adhered to. You're right. /sarcasm
You don't think that the more feedback they get on the size and shape the more likely they are to fix it? Because that's how this works.
If no-one said anything, you'd get whatever they showed. All the time, except when they changed the materials or whatever else in the deal and told you later.
Posting here isn't feedback, though. You can post your opinion, but repeating it beyond a certain point it just becomes some sort of forum masturbation.
Yeah, which also doesn't fix the toy-like design of having a ridge down the middle of the flyer that looks like a seam. But then, if you're easily satisfied by half-arsed solutions...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lord_blackfang wrote: They also said they're painting over the highlight on the dropship ridge so people stop complaining about seams.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Azazelx wrote: Because a note in the comments of the KS saying that they're open to fixing the issues fixes everything and will always be adhered to. You're right. /sarcasm
You don't think that the more feedback they get on the size and shape the more likely they are to fix it? Because that's how this works.
If no-one said anything, you'd get whatever they showed. All the time, except when they changed the materials or whatever else in the deal and told you later.
Posting here isn't feedback, though. You can post your opinion, but repeating it beyond a certain point it just becomes some sort of forum masturbation.
You mean like your endless water carrying and handwaving here? You must be getting close to"finishing" by now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: FWIW, I'd stopped bothering to post about the "seam line" until you decided to bring it up again along with their non-solution.
So well done you!
Posting here isn't feedback, though. You can post your opinion, but repeating it beyond a certain point it just becomes some sort of forum masturbation.
Ronnie posted earlier in the thread. This place is much more coherent than the KS comments and much more populous than the Mantic forum. Unless Mantic is incompetent, they will be reading this thread.
I learned several Mantic KS projects ago to avoid their comment sections. Between dumb ass Brian Blessed gak/rally stupid insider joks and folks attempting to stifle legit criticisms, I had enough.
I kind of thought Dakka was a place where I could point out what I consider valid points.
Posting here isn't feedback, though. You can post your opinion, but repeating it beyond a certain point it just becomes some sort of forum masturbation.
I am really interested in seeing at least renders of the GCPS , and ideally test runs of them next to the Mules. I can see why they led with the Asterians now- this army doesn't even look ready for kickstarter campaigning right now.
Well, all the information that we have says that this "KS slot" was meant to be the licensed product, with WP meant for early next year, so it makes sense. If this campaign launched in Feb, etc we would probably have seen renders for the Imperial Guard infantry models and probably some of the Skaven tunneller, Eldar dropship, Squat APC and IG Valkyrie and resin buggy as well. Possibly even 3-d prints of some of them.
Really glad they made multi-basing standard. It differentiates the ruleset and its never good to try and please everyone at once! For those who don't like it there is always firefight!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also maybe they can fund some attractive stands for multi-basing now?
Are they also staying with specialty dice (or are the dice I've been seeing just used as counters to show battlefield effects)?
To give an Order, declare which Order you are giving,
which Commander is giving it, and to which unit, and decide how many Command dice you want to roll for the Order.
Roll the dice, and check your result. Every O [to be replaced with a symbol] icon that you roll counts as a single success. Every blank face rolled is a failure – the Order has been misunderstood or didn’t get through to your
troops. Every + [ to be replaced with a symbol ] icon means that the die can be returned to your pool after determining the result of the roll, even if the Order was unsuccessful
.
privateer4hire wrote: I think the specialty dice plus the multibasing will really set the game apart in the 28mm world.
Well yes, but not in a good way.
Specialty dice present a barrier to entry. And the reasons multi-basing is a bad idea have been hashed out elsewhere... nothing has changed there.
Everybody's tired of the way 40k (AKA GW) does things. Multibasing will allow players esp. those who like horde armies to really get all their toys on the table.
What KoW did for WFB, looks like WP will do for 40k.
Everybody's tired of the way 40k (AKA GW) does things.
Even if that's true, it doesn't make any alternative a good one.
There are better ways, IMO, to handle larger scale battles without just counting each group of 5 guys as a single model, and I think that going that route is going to cost them players.
And that's speaking as someone who plays a horde army. The idea of maneouvering any sizable ork army around the table on 5-model-sized bases kills any interest for me... It's hard enough at times with them based separately. Kill off the flexibility of being able to place individual models around obstacles and it just becomes completely unworkable.
Totally disagree. 300+ special snowflakes is what bogs down large scale 28mm. 50 fire teams sounds much more manageable. I wasn't actually that interested in playing so but now I have read the rules I'm really enthusiastic. Making another 28mm skirmish game in an already packed marketplace doesn't serve any purpose than to quell dissension. My next task is to decide if I hold my EB and pad at the PM or upgrade to a total warfare now.
Huh. I kind of like the idea of moving teams of dudes around while maintaining their coherency to the larger squad. I mean you move them all around at once so it's not more tactical or anything but idunno.. I just don't mind the idea of moving my little dudes around in batches.
Total seems to be going up pretty solidly lately. I mean it's not gone up a lot by any means, but neither has it halted today. Good stuff.
Everybody's tired of the way 40k (AKA GW) does things.
Even if that's true, it doesn't make any alternative a good one.
There are better ways, IMO, to handle larger scale battles without just counting each group of 5 guys as a single model, and I think that going that route is going to cost them players.
And that's speaking as someone who plays a horde army. The idea of maneouvering any sizable ork army around the table on 5-model-sized bases kills any interest for me... It's hard enough at times with them based separately. Kill off the flexibility of being able to place individual models around obstacles and it just becomes completely unworkable.
I agree with your points and I would add the fact that multi basing works very well in KoW because from ancient times up through most of the 19th century armies fought in troop formations. Roman Legions, the New Model Army, the Napoleonics wars etc you can use all kinds of models with KoW from different eras and multi based troop formations make sense. The technological advances in weaponry in modern warfare made fighting in large formations on the battlefield suicidal. In a scifi setting multi based formations don't make sense. Limiting the multi based units to small squads doesn't really make the game easier to play than individual basing and incurs similar drawbacks to individual basing.
Everybody's tired of the way 40k (AKA GW) does things.
Even if that's true, it doesn't make any alternative a good one.
There are better ways, IMO, to handle larger scale battles without just counting each group of 5 guys as a single model, and I think that going that route is going to cost them players.
And that's speaking as someone who plays a horde army. The idea of maneouvering any sizable ork army around the table on 5-model-sized bases kills any interest for me... It's hard enough at times with them based separately. Kill off the flexibility of being able to place individual models around obstacles and it just becomes completely unworkable.
I agree with your points and I would add the fact that multi basing works very well in KoW because from ancient times up through most of the 19th century armies fought in troop formations. Roman Legions, the New Model Army, the Napoleonics wars etc you can use all kinds of models with KoW from different eras and multi based troop formations make sense. The technological advances in weaponry in modern warfare made fighting in large formations on the battlefield suicidal. In a scifi setting multi based formations don't make sense. Limiting the multi based units to small squads doesn't really make the game easier to play than individual basing and incurs similar drawbacks to individual basing.
Agree that tight packed formations are senseless in a sci-fi setting with futuristic weapons. But that's not what these movement deals are going to do. They're going to be just as spread out as a 40k unit except you'll be able to pick up the unit in one action instead of individually picking up each model separately to move them. It'll speed things up and still look just as spread out as 40k.
Everybody's tired of the way 40k (AKA GW) does things.
Even if that's true, it doesn't make any alternative a good one.
There are better ways, IMO, to handle larger scale battles without just counting each group of 5 guys as a single model, and I think that going that route is going to cost them players.
And that's speaking as someone who plays a horde army. The idea of maneouvering any sizable ork army around the table on 5-model-sized bases kills any interest for me... It's hard enough at times with them based separately. Kill off the flexibility of being able to place individual models around obstacles and it just becomes completely unworkable.
Hopefully, they'll also adopt a scaled up version of the deadzone 8 x 8 board. That way you can ditch rulers and just focus on one or two space moves (getting rid of the terrain/model conflict in large part).
I really like that GCPS bundle. The concept art looks great. Unfortunately, having gotten burned by the MAA from KOW1, I remain unwilling to pledge for Mantic miniatures sight unseen. I guess I could always go in for a dollar and see how it turns out right?
Gallahad wrote: I really like that GCPS bundle. The concept art looks great. Unfortunately, having gotten burned by the MAA from KOW1, I remain unwilling to pledge for Mantic miniatures sight unseen. I guess I could always go in for a dollar and see how it turns out right?
That would be your best bet, but to be honest there HIPS have been getting better at every corner.
I like the idea if little movement trays. One thing I learned to hate playing with my nids was the movement phase. I think it would be fun to make little scenic bases for squads or mini dioramas.
AlexHolker wrote: There's no such thing, and Mantic's failure to understand this is why the Pathfinders look like arse. At least if this was another all-male kit it wouldn't actively hurt the chances of getting a competently designed female kit in the future.
judgedoug wrote: Odd viewpoint considering there are specific female torsos on the Pathfinders sprue.
But they are right for bucking their own trend and making a neutral torso, as females in body armor look like males in body armor, no matter how much people want armored breast cones and 12 inch heels and electro whips.
edit: instead of this weird desire to have giant exaggerated hips/boobs on miniatures wearing bulky body armor, how about someone finally actually make models with different heights? So far the Terminator resistance fighters are the only plastic kit that exists that have models of various heights on the sprue.
NTRabbit wrote: Human torsos in regular flak jacket style body armour from neck to groin. Try doing a google search, even with the new body armour the US army is using designed specifically to fit women, from the outside the torso is still straight up and down solid. Not everything needs to be cheesecake and jiggly tits.
Here's a few images, please tell me how these real life women soldiers, in body armour, with no apparent bust or hips, look like arse and need to be resculpted
Spoiler:
As I have said before, the problem is the rigging - the skeleton. A woman's skeleton is not the same shape as a man's skeleton, particularly the ribcage and consequentially the distance between the shoulders. A model of a man, exaggerated for 28mm, will not have proportions that are adequate for a woman. At the very least you need to make the torso narrower and if you're using two handed weapons you need to also redo the arms so they still fit.
On multi-basing: I think the least bad approach would be to have the rules work at the fire team level, and use line multibases rather than clump multibases, so that it's possible to put the fire team against a piece of cover like a wall or the edge of a rooftop.
I certainly hope Mantic does -not- make Warpath's battlefield one set out by 'squares', ala Deadzone. I prefer an open table and tape-measures, thanks.
I am totally fine with multibasing, as well. I envision it working the same as other games, only instead of moving ~50-100 figs, you'll move ~10-15 bases. True, things could get interesting when you reach area terrain/buildings and such, but I have faith they'll address those situations one way or another. Hoping for a 'mass battles' 28mm game, but then hoping you can spread your guys out in a 'realistic manner' so that they can avoid deadly area-effect weapons, is a bit counter-intuitive. You have finite space to work with, and 'mass battles' will likely mean a lot of figs with only so much to room to put between them. I'm fine with multibases, whether it's 'unrealistic' or not.
I also really don't care about other 'real world' stuff in my sci-fi make-believe game. Obviously some people want the game to be more 'life-like' or 'plausible', and that's cool... but we're dealing with dwarves and ratmen and robots and space-elf-like-beings shooting lazer-gunz and using massive earth-drills and drop ships, etc. I frankly prefer female figs that LOOK female - whether 'realistic' body armor would make them look androgynous or not. That doesn't mean I want female figs with boobs as big as five-gallon buckets, but I am all for 'hips and curves'. But suspending one's sense of disbelief is far easier for some than others, and that's just part of what makes all of us a little more different from one another.
I don't think Warpath is meant to be a 'simulation' of real life or modern warfare, just like 40K isn't, or Warmachine. I like what I see so far (for the most part), though, and am eager to see more renders for sure before I toss any more $ on my pledge.
Mort wrote: but then hoping you can spread your guys out in a 'realistic manner' so that they can avoid deadly area-effect weapons, is a bit counter-intuitive.
I don't think that anyone had actually mentioned immunity from blasts as a reason against multibasing, so I'm a little puzzled as to where this came from...
Mort wrote: I certainly hope Mantic does -not- make Warpath's battlefield one set out by 'squares', ala Deadzone. I prefer an open table and tape-measures, thanks.
It won't be a grid system. Open table and tape measures.
Have found time to play a quick test game, the rules work great, very fluid, alternate activation and the actions system makes things move back and forth very quickly between players.
Overwatch is handled very well, with it being an excellent anti-assault deterrent, and handled much more cleanly than in other systems.
Suppression system is great, pretty much Epic:Armageddon blast markers in terms of functionality, with some unique additions.
scarletsquig wrote: Overwatch is handled very well, with it being an excellent anti-assault deterrent, and handled much more cleanly than in other systems.
Suppression system is great, pretty much Epic:Armageddon blast markers in terms of functionality, with some unique additions.
As I have said before, the problem is the rigging - the skeleton. A woman's skeleton is not the same shape as a man's skeleton, particularly the ribcage and consequentially the distance between the shoulders. A model of a man, exaggerated for 28mm, will not have proportions that are adequate for a woman. At the very least you need to make the torso narrower and if you're using two handed weapons you need to also redo the arms so they still fit.
Which doesn't mean gak on a person wearing combat level protective body armour over an always baggy field uniform. I even gave you real life photos proving that. How broad a person's shoulders are is as variable in women as it is for men, and it's very possible for a woman to be broader than a man at the same height.
And FYI, I think the Pathfinders are a great representation of a genetically modified, highly athletic woman soldier wearing a more scifi style of armour on the torso. Great proprtions, wouldn't change a thing about them.
MLaw wrote: I sincerely hope FF doesn't have specialty dice.
They are shoehorning them even into Deadzone 2, and they hadn't even thought of them by the time the KS ended, so there wasn't even an option to buy any.
MLaw wrote: I sincerely hope FF doesn't have specialty dice.
They are shoehorning them even into Deadzone 2, and they hadn't even thought of them by the time the KS ended, so there wasn't even an option to buy any.
Well, Deadzone 1 had the whole command points and abilities thing in already, it just used regular d8s rolling for I think 3+ or 4+, rather than special d8s with symbols. Not a huge change.
MLaw wrote: I sincerely hope FF doesn't have specialty dice.
They are shoehorning them even into Deadzone 2, and they hadn't even thought of them by the time the KS ended, so there wasn't even an option to buy any.
I think from the DZ2 blog post yesterday, they work like Coaching Dice in DBO, ie spend one to boost a single action (in a particular way depending on the action). The system in WP is much more like casting a spell/psychic power in WHF/40k.
privateer4hire wrote: I think the specialty dice plus the multibasing will really set the game apart in the 28mm world.
Well yes, but not in a good way.
Specialty dice present a barrier to entry.
Yyyup. Seems like every other game has to have extra-speshul unique dice to stock up on, these days. If the order system gives one of three results, what's the problem with D3?
The order dice have more than one thing on them, there are blanks, 1 success, 2 successes and 3 successes. In addition to that, there is another symbol that determines whether or not the command dice is returned to the pool.
You can just use d8's and a chart, the dice are there for convenience rather than necessity.
If they're going to whip up a sci-fi make-believe game, they had a lot of scope and freedom to play with. Instead they took the same old medieval-fantasy races and tropes and dropped sci-fi guns into their hands, again.
See, I don't actually have a problem with that, particularly given how hard GW have tried to steer 40K away from it. I love the 'fantasy in space' trope. It's one of the big things that appealed to me when I first discovered 40K, and so someone else picking up that ball and running with it is great, in theory.
In Soviet dakka, the forums bane You! Or something.
Good stuff, I like news.
Looks like a small gain overnight (from my timezone perspective) but still positive traction. Closing with the GCPS goal somewhat which is both good and expected for the last few days. Looking g forward to the new HP vehicles and hopefully a surprise or two towards the end.
Somewhat related tangentially, but I do hope we see those new command dice included in Infestation pledges. Seems like kind of a big deal in how the game is played. I won't miss the cards that much.
I also hope we see at least one new thing put up for the last add on Wednesday Not a huge fan of just rehashes of already available items. At least give me a metal hero to add on or something!.
I think they have a choice, and have made that clear on the KS comments, with a fair bit of support.
They can put up some pick-and-mix or get-one-of-every-vehicle deals, and pick up a lot more sales. There are many people who'd like to get one of each. It's not uncommon. You often find shoppers like that on these Ks campaigns. Painters, skirmish players, people who want to field EVERY army, completionists, etc. Some of them are never going to be Warpath players, but they still put a lot of money into these campaigns for other reasons.
Or Mantic can stick to their guns by only offering deals on three of the same vehicle. If they offer mixed vehicle deals, I guarantee that it will net them additional money, money this campaign could use if they want to fund more than the mule and maybe one more hard plastic vehicle. Even putting up a battlegroup of three different but set vehicles would make an impact, and move more people into higher level pledges. I guarantee that sticking with vehicle bundles as they are will not push people who want one vehicle of each type into buying three of the same type, or push skirmish players into becoming mass warfare players. Would mixing up vehicles make packing more difficult? Will offering so many varied add-on deals for everything else making packing difficult? Why should vehicles be any different? Packing isn't the issue, strategy is. But how would offering mixed vehicle deal hurt the campaign?
Anyhow, the ball's in their court. This is the last add-on Wednesday; I think if they are going to change this and make a splash, now would be the time. If they don't, we'll see how this finishes, but I don't expect any big surge.
My other recommendation would be to drop something exclusive and too-good-to-resist into those Ultimate Tyrant pledges to lock them down. Much of the campaign's progress has hung on those. Having gone through the Frenzy backslide with Dreadball Xtreme already, they should know better than to leave that level without an anchor during the final 24.
privateer4hire wrote: I think the specialty dice plus the multibasing will really set the game apart in the 28mm world.
Well yes, but not in a good way.
Specialty dice present a barrier to entry. And the reasons multi-basing is a bad idea have been hashed out elsewhere... nothing has changed there.
While I also dislike multi-basing, the specialty dice are not really a barrier... Bolt Action has exploded in the last couple of years, and that requires you to have a special order die per unit (that cost about $1.25 each)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AlexHolker wrote: particularly the ribcage and consequentially the distance between the shoulders. A model of a man, exaggerated for 28mm, will not have proportions that are adequate for a woman.
That's the problem; over-exaggeration, GW-style, forms the basis of this. The 90's cartoon sculpt aesthetic of GW, I-Kore, Medge, etc, with large heads and hands and no waists, would definitely require exaggerated female anatomy.
However, Mantic's humans have all been more lithe, with smaller heads and hands, closer to Perry aesthetics than GW - at least for their humans. Without this hyper-exaggerated form, you don't need to model proportional changes that would shrink to fractions of a millimeter at this scale.
Edit: dammit, sorry Alpharius, I always post before I see your warning :(
Well my will snapped and I joined the KS at the advance warfare level. I read someplace that the pledges will continue open for a while after the campaign ends in case people want to add something extra right?
Joyboozer wrote: Will we see GCPS renders before the campaign ends?
I doubt we will before the end of the campaign, but we will for certain before the PM. Confidence for $1 backers, but not much in the way of total driving during the project.
I still have to bounce from an early bird to a total warfare pledge. Might add a second TW in the manager. Because reasons. And I need plenty of tanks. Screw Asterians, I want those Corp! (I also already have a boatload. Full IG army worth)
Gonna have to skip, can't get the funds together to get what I want.. so I'd rather wait till retail and then I'll probably start with a few corp guys and a couple of mules.
If they're going with the multibase thing, it might be cool if they could do some big resin bases / movement trays with 5 hole slots to put your guys, with some rubble and stuff all around. Kinda like those old gale force 9 movement trays, only not plain.
They need to do plastic bases to support the game. I'm honestly shocked that was not included in the basic set/pledge and that units bought for the game do not have them included.
I want some (cheap) plastic movement trays, both for this and Kings of War. I too am shocked that Mantic hasn't gotten something put together themselves to remedy this.
Of course, I want trays with spots 40mm round bases so I can send my Trollbloods off to fight in Kings of War, but my Scattergunners, Highwaymen, and Sluggers wouldn't mind having a go in Warpath either. Use 'em as counts as Marauders or some such.
The movement tray idea is a no brainer. It allows for use of the minis in other games/ Firefight/ Deadzone rather than diorama bases that pretty much mean your minis have to be used in Warpath (if glued onto the bigger base) or takes up a fair degree of hobby time.
The trays would be easy to design, and a guaranteed money maker. If they want us to play 100+ miniatures a side games that is a hell of a lot of movement trays and thus additional funding.
MLaw wrote: Looks like Mantic is searching for ideas about what to add for Add-On Wed.
I'm betting it ends up being paint or something.
Already had paint in the terrain one.
Whatever it is, it will be anti-climactic, because ever since Mantic started "add-on wednesday" they've almost always been overhyped duds.
Very true.
On the other hand, to their credit, Mantic haven't really hyped this one at all. I'm not expecting anything game-changing, but whatever brings in more backers and $ is fine with me. They really should put the Veer-myn hard plastics up, though, as I think they're the only faction featured that still doesn't have their troopers up as add-ons.
I'm really glad we're ending with the GCPS and not the Asterians. If it were the Asterians and things were lagging, the message might have been interpreted as these aliens are too niche, nobody likes them.
Since it's the GCPS instead, which should have very broad appeal, any drag won't be read that way. As an Asterian fan, I'm glad, as I don't want Mantic getting signals that they need to lay off of those alien races for awhile and play it safer. The alien races are precisely where my interest is.
Parts-wise, I would like to see the Asterian drones torsos separated from their hips / legs, though. If the only variation possible is the turn of their heads and arms, 5 fixed poses isn't much variation for an army.
Well the Kickstarter comments are always good for a laugh:
William B:
"Do you have any 3d break downs of parts for the Forgefathers Steel Warriors? Intrested in seeing how they will be on spruce."
Me:
"The Steel Warriors are coming on Spruce? Is this another Mantic material swap? I thought they were hard plastic? There was no reference to wood as a material."
It is odd how Mantic have never really tested the full possibilities of add on wednesday, that said I was pleasantly shocked by the backer numbers of scenery only pledges.
Over night we passed a major milestone – 2,500 backers – and it doesn’t look like we’ve stopped there as we’re now up to 2570 backers at the time of writing.
Thank you so much to everyone for your support!
Like you guys, we just want to get on and get the GCPS unlocked - so let's introduce a little Mantic Madness to proceedings!
$350,000 Stretch Goal Updated
When we hit our next stretch goal, we will be funding the GCPS Troopers and GCPS Battlegroup.
But we wanted to give a little bit more away than that, so...
When we hit the goal, we will also upgrade both Ultimate Tyrant pledge levels by adding:
-- One extra Warpath Counter Set worth $15
-- One extra Warpath Command Dice worth $8
AND
-- Unlocking the option to pick a second $30 hard plastic vehicle for FREE!
This means that with Ultimate Tyrant you could choose TWENTY hard plastic vehicles for $425, and you’ll have extra counters and dice should you choose to pick say two 2,000 points armies as your 6 Battlegroups.
There are only 80 of these left and they will not be available on the pledge manager, (though if you’re already at Ultimate Tyrant you can choose to add a second Ultimate Tyrant pledge level if you want) – so please get one before they are gone.
Total Warfare Limited!
Whilst we do offer a facility for people to change their pledge levels up during the pledge manager, we want to offer a little something extra to those who are pledging during the campaign to help drive through some of these stretch goals.
So, the Total Warfare $235 pledge level is now limited to just 400 available.
If we sell out of these before the campaign ends we will open up a new Total Warfare pledge level at $250. The $250 version of the pledge level will be the one available on the Pledge Manager. This means that if you pledge for it during the campaign, you will get $15 off.
For $235, you can choose any three $75 Battlegroups from the faction and vehicle bundles we have available. Those three battlegroups separately come to $225, and for the remaining $10 you get:
-- A choice of any $30 hard plastic vehicle
-- The Warpath and Firefight Rulebooks
-- Warpath Source Book
-- Digital versions of all three books
-- A free set of $8 Command Dice
-- A free $10 Warpath Counter Set
Note: If you’re at the $235 level and want a second one on the Pledge Manager, you will be able to add additional ones for same amount you paid for the first one.
Add-on Wednesday
Add-on Wednesday is the update where we offer some cool optional add-ons we thought you might like to get. It might be scenery for your wargames table – or even an actual wargames table! – or it might be accessories or bundles on miniatures.
Let’s get started…
Tritonic Wastes 6’x4’ Warpath Deluxe Battlemat (Not final artwork)
Making a wargame table can be hard work, so in addition to the hard plastic Tablescapes board, we are also offering a beautifully detailed full-colour sci-fi gaming mat.
This durable mat is crease and tear resistant, folds away neatly for easy storage, and featured a non-slip backing.
You can find out more about deluxe rubber gaming mats in this video with former community manager James M. Hewitt, who took the Mars Attacks battle mat out for a test spin (filmed in 2013).
Faction Dice
Always a popular choice – get customized 16mm fancy six-sided dice with an etched faction logo on the ‘6’ for your faction of choice. You can also get all six sets for $75 - getting you one set free.
Mantic Tape Measure
A Tape Measure is an essential item for almost any wargame, and for the first time you can get one with the iconic Mantic Splat branded on the side.
The tape measure is designed for easy-use, and the tape will stay extended without having to hold the button in down - quite the reverse in fact, the button actually retracts the tape.
Plague Formation
About The 1st Gen Aberration
For one of the greatest threats facing it, the Galactic Co-Prosperity Sphere knows little about the Plague.
Two of the biggest questions posed by the ETCU is ‘How can the Plague be so comprehensibly virulent?’ and, ‘Why do not all first contact creatures become First Generation Infected?’ Because not all do. Whether it be a flaw in the subject’s genetic code, or some kind of switch within the Plague itself, limiting the number of First Gen Infected, some of those in first contact with a Plague Artefact do not mutate into a Stage One. Their fate is much worse.
Post Containment studies have found that the individuals who change into what have become known as Aberrations, show signs that the mutation followed the same initial stages as those who turn into First Generations; the massive stature and chitinous skin the most telling factors. But at some undefined stage the transformation ceases and begins to fall apart.
Though the victim continues to grow, the mutation forces the host to a hunched, almost quadrupedal stature (it bears noting that Stage One Infected will follow the host’s locomotive nature in all other cases). The end result is an immense, infected creature which does not demonstrate the purposeful nature within the rest of an Infected population. That is to say, it does not seek to spread the Plague, instead it seems to be driven by rabid ferocity and nothing more. One aspect of the Aberration which has sparked some interest in GCPS scientists is the creature seems not to be a vector for the Plague; it cannot infect other creatures. Given that any creature it comes across usually does not survive may or may not be a factor in this.
Standing on a 60mm circular base, the resin Aberration is a beast of a miniature – and with this formation you get two of them!
We’ve also included 2 Plague Teratons, giving you a squad of 3 if you combine this add-on with a Plague Battlegroup. Plague Teratons give the Plague vital Command points – don’t understand their usefulness.
Veer-myn Night-Crawlers
Perhaps one of the most persistently asked for sets, the basic Veer-myn hard plastic kit can either build Veer-myn Night-Crawlers or close-combat Veer-myn Stalkers.
There are also enough components to build a Maligni specialist with either Heavy Ray Guy or Chem-Thrower heavy weapon.
Here are the first sample sprues from the manufacturer:
And for a bit of fun…
Ack-ack-ack Att-ack!
Over the course of the last two years we created the Mars Attacks Miniatures Game – a fast-paced, board-game hybrid, with simple figures and awesome vehicles.
Mars Attacks is strictly not canon and is not included in the Warpath Universe – but there’s no harm in offering Force Lists for the Martians and Human for Warpath is there? These will be digital downloads when the game hits retail, and we thought you might like the opportunity to pick up some of these fun models now…
There are three Mars Attacks Battlegroups below. Each one is $75 and, the same deal as with all of the different Battlegroups, you can choose them as part of your pledge of Advanced Warfare, Total Warfare and Ultimate Tyrant, or simply add them on top.
Martian Battlegroup
They came from another planet and now they want ours! This is the day that the people of Earth will remember forever more. This is the day that Mars Attacks!
Martian Robot Battlegroup
While not a robot in the truest sense, this isn’t a distinction that matters a great deal to those on the receiving end of these gigantic death machines. Designed by the Science Division as a shock and awe vehicle, Giant Robots are an inelegant but powerful weapon in the Martian invasion effort. Standing over twenty feet tall, their weapon arms are almost a secondary consideration on Earth, their size and bulk allowing them to simply stomp on or through most human forces with relative ease. When they do power up their arm weapons, the forces of humanity have learned to run, and quickly.
Human Battlegroup
The first wave of the invasion is over, and General Tor is determined to wipe all resistance - but the invaders aren’t having it all their own way. The mysterious Novas Vira have arrived to rally the survivors and help them in taking the fight back to the Martians, bringing exotic weaponry and equipment to even the balance.
With both sides bringing new weapons and tactics to the conflict, things can only get uglier!
2015 The Topps Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. MARS ATTACKS is a Registered Trademark of The Topps Company, Inc. Licensed by The Topps Company.
AND FINALLY…
No Mantic Kickstarter adventure is complete without this guy…
This is Blaine – an inter-dimension traveller and effectively Mantic’s Kickstarter mascot. Might we see a new version before the end?
Do we think we should have a fully kitted out Mercenary Leader Blaine in a custom suit of Powered Peacekeeper Armour, or do we want to see Walker Blaine, our mighty mercenary laid low thanks to the highly infectious Plague?
Let us know in the comments.
Edit: Adding pictures shortly... I know Alpharius has complained about the lack of pictures ^_^
Vermonter wrote: I'm really glad we're ending with the GCPS and not the Asterians. If it were the Asterians and things were lagging, the message might have been interpreted as these aliens are too niche, nobody likes them.
Since it's the GCPS instead, which should have very broad appeal, any drag won't be read that way. As an Asterian fan, I'm glad, as I don't want Mantic getting signals that they need to lay off of those alien races for awhile and play it safer. The alien races are precisely where my interest is.
Parts-wise, I would like to see the Asterian drones torsos separated from their hips / legs, though. If the only variation possible is the turn of their heads and arms, 5 fixed poses isn't much variation for an army.
I agree with you. I think the Asterians are the strongest range for Warpath, even more than the Enforcers, with only one disappointing unit. The designs could easily be used to proxy robot drones or aliens in a number of settings, and their vehicle will be the most distinctive of the campaign. In contrast, the USPS Rangers have one nice sketch going for them, but suffer due to Mantic's poor reputation for human sculpts and uncomfortable comparisons to the controversial Enforcer Pathfinders. The market just saw a glut in HIPS humans this year, so that might also be a factor. Too bad Mantic didn't try to test the waters for a Z'zor or Nameless plastic kit.
So, if anyone wants the TL;DR version, Total Warfare is now limited. I just switched to it myself. There are just over 100 left. If you buy one at the $235, it stays at $235 if you get a second in the PM. If you wait and miss out, they'll go up to $250. Get it now if you really want it.
Even more TLDR: Ultimate Tyrant is now very likely strictly better than 2x total warfare. They added in 23 dollars worth of counters and command dice, as well as a second vehicle pick, bringing the total for that up to potentially 20 vehicles just like TWx2. So now double TW costs you $45 to get an extra copy of the three books, which should put ultimate tyrant as clearly better.
Of course, UT will not be offered in PM if I read correctly, whereas a more expensive late-bird version of TW will. I guess I'm gonna lock in an ultimate tyrant and decide on the last day if I'm happy affording that now or not.
Does jiff some people who wanted to lock in UT now and get a TW later but only by 15 monies.
Also the Mars Attacks bundles almost ensure that I'll have *something* to get with the six battle groups of ultimate tyrant.
Honestly, I much prefer $235 now for the TW package, then another $235 in another couple months (re: after christmas), instead of all of it right now. Makes TW better for me, even if it's a couple bucks more.
Yeah, I agree, that's why I was on it before. But now it's like 45 more monies for nothing. Effectively. Besides I have the money now and I won 't come the holiday season between working less and buying other people stuff. And I doubt the pledge manager will ride deep enough into February for my birthday, it tends not to.
But I totally understand your stance on it
And if I decide I can't do UT come judgement day, I'll just have to back down to a dollar and cherry pick my favorite addons instead. So in a way, it's almost more freeing for me personally to be at UT. Or my brain is addled and it's hobby center decided this was a great way to lock in as much goodness as possible. Tricky brain.
This is Blaine – an inter-dimension traveller and effectively Mantic’s Kickstarter mascot. Might we see a new version before the end?
Do we think we should have a fully kitted out Mercenary Leader Blaine in a custom suit of Powered Peacekeeper Armour, or do we want to see Walker Blaine, our mighty mercenary laid low thanks to the highly infectious Plague?
timetowaste85 wrote: So, if anyone wants the TL;DR version, Total Warfare is now limited. I just switched to it myself. There are just over 100 left. If you buy one at the $235, it stays at $235 if you get a second in the PM. If you wait and miss out, they'll go up to $250. Get it now if you really want it.
Yes that is the biggest piece you should take away from this.
Although I understand part of the reason. They want to drive people to upgrade now vs later, they also want to drive funds to the campaign which is what gets Stretch Goals unlocked... however I am sort of torn. I'm not sure I like that it was changed mid-campaign and you are now charged more for going to the pledge manager later and adding funds. Although I'm starting to see this become more of a thing.
timetowaste85 wrote: So, if anyone wants the TL;DR version, Total Warfare is now limited. I just switched to it myself. There are just over 100 left. If you buy one at the $235, it stays at $235 if you get a second in the PM. If you wait and miss out, they'll go up to $250. Get it now if you really want it.
Yes that is the biggest piece you should take away from this.
Although I understand part of the reason. They want to drive people to upgrade now vs later, they also want to drive funds to the campaign which is what gets Stretch Goals unlocked... however I am sort of torn. I'm not sure I like that it was changed mid-campaign and you are now charged more for going to the pledge manager later and adding funds. Although I'm starting to see this become more of a thing.
I haven't missed a Blaine yet. Don't intend to start now! Also, I'd prefer Peacekeeper Blaine. Plague Infested Blaine seems wrong-hes supposed to be "untouchable", gaining new gears and toys, but succumbing to the plague? No...no, no, no, no, no.
Sweet. Their Mars Attacks plastics are really good quality, especially the Tiger Corps, which Blaine looks the most like.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
timetowaste85 wrote: I haven't missed a Blaine yet. Don't intend to start now! Also, I'd prefer Peacekeeper Blaine. Plague Infested Blaine seems wrong-hes supposed to be "untouchable", gaining new gears and toys, but succumbing to the plague? No...no, no, no, no, no.
That's my reading of Blaine, too. I would prefer if he had some distinctive power armor of his own, though.
Yeah, the trick for me though is that now UT clearly trumps TWx2 unless you think getting the three books for $45 is superior. It does offer additional payment flexibility but at the interest rate of $45 (and some extra books).
So I think I'm gonna go UT and end up with lots of vehicles or fall back to a dollar and get single vehicles at a slightly expanded price, the 20/$20 options, and some other misc tidbits (Mules!), and still end up less than I would have before, though a bit less efficiently.
The Tiger Corps are the shining gem production value wise to come from Mars Attacks, nice stuff.
The MA stuff was coming and we knew it was. I didn't anticipate it being presented in an official BG though. Is there a pdf with the preliminary lists for those or is that forthcoming?
Does anyone know how the Martian deals stack up compared to the MAKS?
Kudos on the 6'x4' battlemat.. but.. it's of the easiest tabletop we could make. I think most people might've been looking for something more urban or ...I dunno.. more involved than a big dusty rock field? I know that probably just sounds like a pointless complaint but I'd have liked to have seen something more enticing ... I dunno.. (almost Mantic.. almost)
Noticed a possible error/typo too. They mention the counters and dice in two places and in one they say $8 and $10 and in the other $8 and $15.. which we can figure out by looking at the add-ons but wanted to point it out in case someone was reading the values from those spots.
This project is pulling away from me. As a DZ1 backer I have a small Enforcer, Rebs, Ork, Plague, Forge Father and Space Elf force. The Pathfinders and Space skaven of DZ2 didn't appeal.
Operation Hercules seemed good, reinforcements for 2/6 of the forces I have. But I'm not looking for things Battlegroup sized. To the point where I'm tempted to have a minis only pledge picking up the 20 for $20 deals instead.
Looks like right now I'm in for a buck, and after payday I'll bump my pledge to account for my add-ons. Going to convince the missus, as I'm planning on getting a 20-for-20 of the GCPS, the new Plague 3rd gens, and the Asterians. I might get a lone FF tank, Dropship, or an Ajax strider, but barring a bundle deal I'm probably sitting pretty at a single vehicle for right now.
However, if they sweeten the GCPS battleforce (Or offer some renders of the trooper designs) or start offering 2-for$30 vehicle deals, I think I might end up splurging quite a bit higher.
I cannot see them adding 2 for 30 vehicles. Compared to a battlegroup that would be an extra kit and a 20% ish discount on top. Backers would flip as the pledges became worse value than addons. Rebalancing pledges with four days to go sound flat masochistic. The changes to UT have convinced me to upgrade. I'm not sure what I will do with all the stuff.
I'm in at the Warfare. We've been using Warpath 1.0 for occasional apocalypse-sized battles with our rarely-used 40k armies and I'm eager for a new version. I'll also give the skirmish version a shot. They look good, but I've got little interest in the Warpath minis. I've already got Blood Angels (enforcers) and IG (Corporation) and am working on a Squat (ForgeFathers) army. 28mm Company size warfare (what some call "mass Battle) is truely ridiculous, but I like a bit of ridiculous, especially when I'm breaking out my 40k figs.
I'm a fan of the less-is-more Mantic rules like KoW -which the club also uses with a variety of figs- so this should be good.
I missed the first 30 pages of this so can someone let me know what has been said about multibasing?
-Is it optional?
-Is there a specific size multibase?
Alright so I'm using Miniature Market because they tend to have a healthy discount on most everything, here's what we're looking at.
Giant stompy robot battlegroup 75 bucks, $25/robot. Retail for $40, MM has for 32. So 96 at retail NOW or 75 when the project delivers. I can't judge the value of the wait for anyone but myself, but they do come up cheaper, neat.
Human army battlegroup. Hmm... Almost identical contents to the human army expansion available right now at Miniature market. That goes for $80 and sells on MM for $64. yes I'm rounding up that penny to save typing a bunch of 99s. Now before you start hemming and hawing, they do seem to have tacked on 3/4 the contents of an ATTACK FROM SPAA'AACE box which sells on MM for $20. They left out the martian, makes sense. Given that the flea rider guy is as big as the other three combined.. meh still call it $15 retail value. So the battle group comes in barely better at $75 for what you could get at retail NOW for $84(since you don't have the option to not buy that extra martian). Not as good of a margin as the robots, still a little something.
The Martian battle group doesn't have quite as analogous of an existing offering, but we'll take a look at the martian army expansion on MM as it's the closest match (80/64 dollars). The sets both have the 20 grunts, 5 stealth martians, 5 martian marines, and one saucer. The army expansion has one more saucer whereas the martian battlegroup has the box of science division and both bug handler sets. If you call the extra saucer and the science division equal value (which they are on MM), the main difference is the two bug handler sets which come up to $32 total on MM. So basically buy it from Warpath to lock in $32 more dollars worth of bugs, IF you're willing to trade out a saucer for the science division AND wait for the WP to ship as opposed to getting it NOW.
GrimDork wrote: Alright so I'm using Miniature Market because they tend to have a healthy discount on most everything, here's what we're looking at.
Giant stompy robot battlegroup 75 bucks, $25/robot. Retail for $40, MM has for 32. So 96 at retail NOW or 75 when the project delivers. I can't judge the value of the wait for anyone but myself, but they do come up cheaper, neat.
Human army battlegroup. Hmm... Almost identical contents to the human army expansion available right now at Miniature market. That goes for $80 and sells on MM for $64. yes I'm rounding up that penny to save typing a bunch of 99s. Now before you start hemming and hawing, they do seem to have tacked on 3/4 the contents of an ATTACK FROM SPAA'AACE box which sells on MM for $20. They left out the martian, makes sense. Given that the flea rider guy is as big as the other three combined.. meh still call it $15 retail value. So the battle group comes in barely better at $75 for what you could get at retail NOW for $84(since you don't have the option to not buy that extra martian). Not as good of a margin as the robots, still a little something.
The Martian battle group doesn't have quite as analogous of an existing offering, but we'll take a look at the martian army expansion on MM as it's the closest match (80/64 dollars). The sets both have the 20 grunts, 5 stealth martians, 5 martian marines, and one saucer. The army expansion has one more saucer whereas the martian battlegroup has the box of science division and both bug handler sets. If you call the extra saucer and the science division equal value (which they are on MM), the main difference is the two bug handler sets which come up to $32 total on MM. So basically buy it from Warpath to lock in $32 more dollars worth of bugs, IF you're willing to trade out a saucer for the science division AND wait for the WP to ship as opposed to getting it NOW.
Gotta factor in shipping too.
You're already close to the $99 margin for free MM shipping.
Thanks for the number crunching.
I missed the first 30 pages of this so can someone let me know what has been said about multibasing?
-Is it optional?
-Is there a specific size multibase?
There was some talk about including the Hub rule for as an optional rule for those who don't want to multibase... essentially multibasing without the base.
I don't believe there's been anything said about appropriate sizes for the base yet.
lord_blackfang wrote: Looks like a LOT of people who were happy to pledge a buck now to get TW later were convinced by the $15 Pledge Manager tax.
I had been planning to do it when I was not at work (wanted time to relax as I went through and made decisions, but having every intention to upgrade. Limiting to 400 just forced me to do a day early what I intended to do tomorrow. Hope it didn't piss off too many people.
There's some grumbling but generally it's just out of vocal minorities. I mean in the KS comments half of the people that post actively every day are in for a buck at this point but aggressively demand their requests and heard and initiated, or like to complain over and over even though they're barely invested. A few people seem to have groused, but from the look of the total, the hivemind that wants a bunch of minis/the rules/SOMETHING seems to be in agreement that value has been shown and urgency is in place. Already almost 1/3 of the way through the Mule stretch which means we may well have cleared it by the time we hit the 48 hour email. WOots.
Also on shipping, yes, MM will have free shipping after just a little added to any of those comparative deals.
It looks like you get a pretty good deal on the asterian battlegroup, kids are up so I'd have to math it out later.
Lukez wrote: Limiting total warfare seems like a dick move to me to artificially boost pledges now.
Yep. It's Passive-aggressive Wednesday.
I was going to let the EB stay. Might be time to drop to a $1 PM pledge and see if I give a gak later. I won't be going for TW at all now, since I'm not emotionally invested in their world or background and there's no game that I'm interested in at this point. Shame, I'd fully intended to keep my EB and go TW (or two) later, now they've managed to piss me off by being desperate dicks.
I am admittedly a $1 vocal minority. That's how this works though.
If you want to see something, mention it. There's a good chance they'll bite. People complaining about aspects of the Mule are supposedly leading to a few changes to it.
$1 does not equal a minimal investment, it equals a potential investment. Especially while the KS is still active.
$1 does not equal a minimal investment, it equals a potential investment. Especially while the KS is still active.
Exactly. The folks with the multi-hundred dollar pledges who think everything Mantic offers is fantastic, well their $$$s don't go away. Those $1 pledges? That is money Mantic can potentially earn, or decide it is not worth their effort and leave it on the table so to speak.
Seems silly to believe Mantic should ignore all that and only cater to the folks who are a sure bet.
And sometimes those 'vocal minority' guys have some damned good points. The original 'robot dog' concept sucked. The composition of a US squad in Mars Attacks get a LOT better because of input.
MLaw wrote: Yeah, I think 2 for $30 is pushing it a bit. I'd jump at 2 for $40 as add-ons though (not that I wouldn't jump at $30 just doesn't seem realistic)
I would probably go for 2-for-$40. I'm just looking at the pricing for their 20-for-$20, of the # of unique sprues vs cost, for getting my 2-for-$30 idea being reasonable.
Frankly, even more than a cheap twofer deal, I'd just want a 1-of-everything vehicle variety pack, so I can get a deal on the vehicles without getting a bunch of excesses if I hate them or they're for a faction I rarely use.
On the other hand three people can azazel their EBs for the same amount a me upping my pledge and I don't give a gak if the top of the flier is highlighted or if the pathfinders legs are unisex.
I'll admit, I'm one of those dollar pledges. Looks like I will be for a good long while, too. If you can believe it, I still haven't received my Dreadball Xtreme stuff. They said they sent it and that they sent out replacements, but still nothing. I'm giving them until the end of the week before I contact them again about it, but until I get what I paid for, they aren't getting any extra cash from me.
dragqueeninspace wrote: On the other hand three people can azazel their EBs for the same amount a me upping my pledge and I don't give a gak if the top of the flier is highlighted or if the pathfinders legs are unisex.
I'm not entirely clear on your point, but if it is something along the lines of "quite whining" then it deserves a response. Clearly, backers like you are happy to give Mantic money no matter what they give you. However, there are a lot of people who will only give Mantic money on the condition that Mantic gives them a product of reasonable value in exchange for said money. Now, it seems to me Mantic would like to include the second pile of money along with their safe first pile, so it is in Mantic's interest to listen to the people who are trying to tell Mantic how to take their money. The backers win because Mantic is forced to make products that hold value for the maximum number of people (within Mantic's ability).
So, in essence, if we all just shut up, we all lose.
Barzam wrote: I'll admit, I'm one of those dollar pledges. Looks like I will be for a good long while, too. If you can believe it, I still haven't received my Dreadball Xtreme stuff. They said they sent it and that they sent out replacements, but still nothing. I'm giving them until the end of the week before I contact them again about it, but until I get what I paid for, they aren't getting any extra cash from me.
Fair points, it wasn't an attack, probably a poor choice of wording.
As an act of contrition here's that breakdown of the value of the Asterian battle group that was asked for:
It's going to be hard to get *exactly* what's in the battle group through retail. But let's look at the 15 cyphers, overseer, 2 drones, pair of bikes, and a guess at the kalyshi...
The starter is 28 dollars and has 7 cyphers and the black talon (not in the army deal, consider him equivalent to a cypher in value?) plus two heavy weapon drones and the overseer. Good start. But now where do we get the other 7-8 cyphers we need to have an equivalent amount? There are 5-packs of cyphers for $16 and boosters that include 3 cyphers, a black talon, and a skyrazor for $20. I guess we should get two of those to cover the skyrazors.
So... 28 for the starter, 40 more for two boosters (out of stock atm) gets us 16 cyphers (three are black talons, may even be considered an advantage here), the overseer, two weapon platforms, two skyrazor bike things.. so that's all of the restic duplicated for 68 dollars. The kalyshi.. hmm... gonna call those at least 20 bucks as they're both metal and given the fact that even the restic stuff from the kickstarters usually comes in that much or more. And of course the 20/$20 plastic dudes you'd have to order during the campaign.
So... 75 dollars now buys you what I'm estimating to be 108 dollars worth of Asterians at retail, and a long wait to get the majority of it. Not a bad markdown, from 3rd party retail discount. Also note that the NOW method involves 12 cyphers and 3 cypher black talons, which is theoretically better, possibly just a sidegrade, but IS different. Was as close as I could get.
Is it just me, or does the tunneler battlegroup look like the best value so far? I mean they haven't added any bonus bits to the tanks, or well lots but nothing specific to the battle group like they did the other two, and a couple of guns for ONE of the dropships is kind of boring. Still solid deals, but the tunneler crew compartment bonus in the sketch art is as big as the other tunnelers and looks the same minus maybe the front where it goes on. Am I reading too much into this or does it really look like with a little hobby work, maybe, that you're getting something more like *four* tunnelers in that bundle? Even if the tunneler compartment ends up being shorter or something, I'm willing to bet you could still tack one of the chemthrower/laser bits to the front and have a slightly short gunneler.
On the other hand if all that pandering doesn't result in an increase in income the the forum opinions are just that and you all know the sayings about opinions. Some of the criticism has a lot of merit but a lot of it is just people getting upset things were not done the way they wanted it done. Yes the old dog drone looked dumb but there was never a problem with the flier (Did anyone really think a professional painter had hard edge highlighted a mould line?) Both these thing consume time and effort on Mantics part but only one of them brought a positive change.
I think the tunnellers may be the best deal, but they are also the highest risk with no sculpting on show, and mantics variable ability to do justice to the art.
My suspicion is that the nose section will end up bigger than the art in order to let them do the fancy detaiing on the drills etc, and the transport compartment will end up smaller (after all the transport element of the drop ship and mule both look too small for what they're meant to contain)
so the spare compartment will probably end up just too small be believable as a 4th tunneler without significant hobby work
Edit: and as to no mix and match on the vehicles, either they're saving it for a last 24 hour surge,
or they just don't trust their packers to get it right and having to ship lots of $30 (theoretical value) replacements looks unappealing (compared to any other sprue with a nominal $8-10 value).. my personal guess
Fair points, though we shall have to wait and see I guess. I doubt the compartments will look too small for the nightcrawlers or whatever you call the basic veermyn troops, what with rat tropes about being able to flatten out and pack in and all that.
Like the limited pledges or hate them, we're already nearly down to 5k to Mules.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: or they just don't trust their packers to get it right and having to ship lots of $30 (theoretical value) replacements looks unappealing (compared to any other sprue with a nominal $8-10 value).. my personal guess
Wow, great hypothesis. That actually makes sense. ("Wow" makes that read as sarcasm - it isn't.)
I still think it's a big mistake if they don't ever offer some sort of get-one-of-each vehicle pledge, even if it was set so that you got one of each type and couldn't change the mix. (So if you hate the Asterian flyer, tough, you'll get one anyway if you take the deal.) I'd buy into that, and I definitely won't buy the undiscounted equivalent of one of each for $30, and I'm far from the only one to say so. So that's money left on the table. If I stick with Total Warfare, my current plan is maybe to buy one more vehicle.
I think adding stuff to Ultimate Tyrant so it was fully equal to 2x Total Warfare at a better price had to be done. They were courting a big last day bailout on that, and boy am I tired of those. After the Frenzy debacle, that was a wise move.
Making Total Warfare limited all of a sudden, on the other hand, was a sucker punch. So they feel that they're maxed out and don't want to sweeten the deal or make it more customizable, so instead, they make it limited after the fact. Gutsy. As a pledger I think it will help the campaign, but there's no question that it won't be on all of our minds the next time they run a campaign. It's another thing to add to the "distrust / almost" pile. It will be cited here again and again, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. And as sick of that as I will quickly get, even as a Mantic fan, I'm not going to challenge it. They brought it on themselves.
I have to look over my calculations again, but there's a good chance they'll keep me at Total Warfare. That's a bit of luck, really, considering how much of their material I already have from backing previous campaigns. I don't really need as many HIPS grunts as I'll get in the battlegroups, or extra 2nd / 3rd gens, etc. But while I'm not a wargamer, I am a guy who loves to modify and mess around and tinker with miniatures, and having extras for that purpose is great. 20 to 40 of every type of HIPS grunt will suit my purposes for years on that front. And while I'll be the first to admit that the 2nd Gens are highly flawed models, I've really enjoyed modifying them, and have gotten great results. I actually want more to mess with now. Strange, but true.
But as a Deadzone skirmish player, and even as a modder, this Warpath approach of stuffing old product into a new kickstarter is a one-trick pony for me. I'm loving the $75 deals on Enforcers and Plague, because I love modding those guys. But if they run a Marauder / Rebs Warpath campaign and trick out all the pledge levels with tons of old stuff again, I'll be in for a few add-ons only. This campaign isn't the best Mantic deal I've seen - everyone is always forgetting to add shipping costs into their estimations and comparisons with retail - but all in all I'm good with it. It does not make me eager to see any more KS Warpath KS campaigns, though.
I'd much rather have more KS Deadzone campaigns like Infestation, which came chock full of brand new stuff at a truly great value, and I'd much rather get new HIPS sprues for Marauders / Rebs in that context than this one, because in Infestation most of the old stuff was limited to add-ons. Pledge levels contained very little that was pre-funded, and that made their bundled discounts very attractive.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, have they put up the Asterian flyer stretch goal yet? Will that even be funded this campaign?
Judging by the flex in the post-update jumps, I'd say there's probably room in the final 48 to squeak in the last couple of kits they have mentioned for Asterians, GCPS, Plague etc..
Bundle deals like that will probably be stop-gap goals to pick up slack.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, have they put up the Asterian flyer stretch goal yet? Will that even be funded this campaign?
Judging by the flex in the post-update jumps, I'd say there's probably room in the final 48 to squeak in the last couple of kits they have mentioned for Asterians, GCPS, Plague etc..
Bundle deals like that will probably be stop-gap goals to pick up slack.
As far as expensive HIPS goes there's just two vehicles left, right? The Asterian flyer and the GCPS / Plague / maybe even Rebs flying thing.
I know people have talked about a GCPS tank too, but Mantic never has during the campaign, so they may not feel that committed to it at this point.
As long as the end's not a bleedout - and after today I don't think it will be - I think just two more HIPS vehicles should be very attainable. And I think it's pretty clear that Mantic really wants to launch Warpath with all of these factions fully supported, and that means they all need access to a large vehicle. One way or another, I think they'll do these.
There are several things in the alpha rules that haven't been mentioned officially. There's a corporation Lancer MBT, the TAD ##(forget) Hornet drop/gunship for the corp/plague (we're expecting that), the Hultr (spelling maybe) half-track forge father thing, some Marauders stuff under the GCPS army list. Probably a couple I've forgotten.
Yeah, I think we've got plenty of momentum coming for the 48 hour warning, plus who knows they may do some value-boosting final days stuff too. I think several of our "achieved" goals still have some "hidden unlocks" before they're "complete" or maybe that last one didn't need quotes. But the GCPS troops probably need some kind of aditional mini/heavy weapons/unit conversion sprue add-ons like most of the other kits. Asterian drone guys got them as did the plague, and the other units made in DZ:I. Still seems like the Sturnhammer battlegroup hasn't gotten its battlegroup bonus item yet. I'm not sure what else along those lines, but I'm thinking there are a few things from when we were getting short little stretches. I expect if it's pumping along those last two days we're gonna see more of those 20-30-50k sized goals to keep getting new stuff but also make up for old stuff.
I did like the 'reinforcements' compliment-sandwich style stretch goals where they gave us a thing that was always meant to be in an existing stretch, added a couple of models to a battle group, and gave us another thing that was probably always meant to be within an existing stretchgoal. Like a bunch of concurrent mini stretches but themed on a bigger stretchgoal. More likely that at least one of the facets is something you want, obscures exactly how much they think each of those bits are worth, and so on.
New update.. character looks good. Glad she is recognizable as a female without the need for her to have boobs, thighs, or other overt anatomy on display. Hopefully the sculptor carries that through.
Not so sure if we'll get any more HIPS vehicles. The padding from fake stretch goals seems to have been used up. HIPS is expensive and vehicles probably need at least 2-3 unique sprues each.
Consider:
1st HIPS was Dropship at 100.000
2nd HIPS was Beardtank at 175.000
3rd HIPS was Plague S3 at 225.000
4th HIPS was Tunneler at 240.000
5th HIPS was Mannequins at 250.000
6th HIPS was GCPS Troops at 350.000
Padding it at the start to shorten the goals in the traditionally slow middle is obvious.
But given that it took 100k to get one infantry sprue at the end (for which we haven't even reached any upgrade goals yet), and that the Mule is resin when it should have been a prime candidate for plastic, covering 2-3 factions, makes me think they took a loss in the middle and had to cover it with the 100k gap. That means they're well out of padding money and we're looking at more 100k gaps between plastics.
They could be pacing it for the final 48. I don't think they're hitting money issues just yet. I think they also would be willing to make concessions on the total, knowing that it'll grow in PM too. Either way we're both exercising in conjecture. Only Mantic (possibly) knows what's going on behind the curtain. We'll see how it plays out.
I estimate, we'll close around $650k (maybe). Low side though, i don't see us being lower than 500k. Gaming mat, plastic kits, upcoming value bundle, 48 hour reminder.. there's still plenty of cards to play.
Well, let's say we don't fund the vehicles. Then Mantic can either a) Fund and market them themselves, b) save them for a future kickstarter, or c) maybe partially fund them, maybe not, but at the very least lock in a bunch of pre-order sales on the PM.
They want Warpath to be a strong launch, fully supported, so b) is really inconvenient as some factions would launch weaker, making the whole thing look worse. C) is better than a), because at least that way they can pre-sell a bunch of them.
Personally, I think they'll find a way to make the two vehicles happen, but probably with priority on the GCPS one first. If anything is dropped, it'd be the Asterian flyer, much as I hate to say it.
Upgrading the GCPS trooper sprue should also be a lock. Would they put out a reduced product that they know won't sell as well, especially when it's a potentially huge seller like standard sci-fi soldiers? They'll want it to compete well on the market. If they originally intended to have ranger upgrades, jumppacks, do a two sprue set like the enforcers, etc., then I think we'll see it happen. They won't shoot themselves in the foot with a substandard release.
Mind you, they'll fiercely deny that any of these things are assured if certain posted targets aren't reached. As they should. That's how this game is played.
As for getting the other rulebook vehicles in hard plastic, though, I wouldn't pin any hopes on it. Mantic would have to be absolutely convinced they could carry it off, which would mean they're not already accepting any hidden deficits in producing the five vehicles they really want for this release, and that any additional non-essential releases were in fact fully covered by the campaign without smoke and mirrors. The later would probably boil down to exceeding their closing expectations by at least 200,000+ or so with plenty of momentum and time to spare.
lord_blackfang wrote: Option D, do some stupid Almost thing like releasing the vehicles in restic or metal.
restic Mules probably wouldn't upset me too much.. maybe..
having owned metal vehicles.. just.. no... that would kill them on shipping anyway..oh.. wait.. we have to eat the shipping..
lol, I can see them switching the whole line over to metal now and everyone gets slapped with $200 shipping..
You and me both SS... you and me both. I'm not gonna link them again because my last post that did so was disappeared.... but I've stockpiled a trio of classic tanks with a scifi paint job that will get some scifi weapons and bits slapped onto them. Even if they fund a GCPS tank later on, I figure these can still work as Ranger Joe's Marine Surplus Shop special buys, cheap and cheerful, these tanks won't break the bank (unless they're shooting at it!).
GrimDork wrote: You and me both SS... you and me both. I'm not gonna link them again because my last post that did so was disappeared.... but I've stockpiled a trio of classic tanks with a scifi paint job that will get some scifi weapons and bits slapped onto them. Even if they fund a GCPS tank later on, I figure these can still work as Ranger Joe's Marine Surplus Shop special buys, cheap and cheerful, these tanks won't break the bank (unless they're shooting at it!).
Yeah, I'll always have room for well priced tanks. I wonder if Mantic would have rethought their pricing if they were as aware as their customers are of cheap scale model tanks, cheap Robogear tanks or clearance DUST tanks. $30 beard? My wallet doesn't need straightening out that badly.
Hey! Guys! I just came up with a reason for Mantic to do a one-of-all-vehicles bundle that isn't self-centered and whiny! One that's for the good of the many!
Okay, here it is. How do you fund stuff that fewer people will want in an expensive material? You bundle it in with more popular stuff, of course! It's a kickstarter tradition!
So let's say Mantic is worried about how much the Asterian flyer, for example, will really pay off their / our investment with enough PM purchases, but they're really confident about the FF tank and the dropship.
Make a bundle of all three, one of each, as a standard-discounted battlegroup ($75). You'll get a lot more people who would've passed those Asterian flyers by at full price who will be happy to fund them through the discounted deal. Or if you're wrong and its the FF tank that's the dog at the PM box office, the Asterian flyer and Enforcer dropship in the deal help offset low interest in the tank.
The interesting thing about this particular pledge system is that even at the most expensive pledge tier, very little common customer purchase ground is guaranteed beyond the rulebooks. You can ensure people can only buy three of the same vehicle at a discount, but that doesn't guarantee that that particular vehicle will sell very well relative to the other battlegroups.
I'm wrong, aren't I? Why is that?
This seems like pretty basic Kickstarter bundling logic to me, and the fact that it would benefit me personally has no influence at all on that outlook. This is purely altruistic and objective thinking.
Vermonter, you have to understand that the customers need a strong hand. They crave discipline. If you let them buy whatever they want, they will buy the wrong things. If you Punish them, they will learn.
At least, that is what the other wargame manufacturers tell me.
I'd go for a vehicle 3 pack similar to that. So I end up with a vehicle for a faction I'm not interested in? Then I trade it off to someone else, put it up on Bartertown/ Ebay, or start looking in to getting some troops for that faction.
Want an easier way to get me to spend money on a faction I wasn't planning to buy originally? Mantic could do what they did with the Asterian and Forge Father starters in Deadzone and with the Steel Warrior freebies in Lockdown pledges in Infestation. Offer a few pieces for free to whet our appetites.
Sadly Mantic are not yet in a position where they can offer and produce HIPS for single character sculpts which is a shame. However, their metal production is done in house with good casts and quality control although the metal can be a bit soft. But I do understand that for some metal is a no-go material, so to each their own.
Overall a great day for the KS, around 25k+ added in 24 hours with the GCPS and Mule funded.
I just realized that $1 gets me the rulebook and sourcebook PDFs. I was going to wait for retail, but I'm definitely in for $1 now. I can decide if I want to add anything else later, during the pledge manager.
A "sampler pack" of one of each of the vehicles is a good idea. Not too difficult to pack, caters to collectors and to people who are on the fence about Warpath and want to see what the various lines are like.
If we hit this goal, we will produce GCPS Major Chard, a new commander miniature exclusive to this Kickstarter.
She will be available to add on for $8, and we will include this exclusive variant of Major Chard free in the GCPS Battlegroup.
You can choose the GCPS Battlegroup:
As your choice of single Battlegroup as part of an Advanced Warfare ($125) pledge. As any number of the THREE Battlegroups included in the Total Warfare pledge As any number of the SIX Battlegroups included in the Ultimate Tyrant pledge.
I'm in for a dollar, but it seems like little point as a lot of the pledge levels will be locked out post kickstarter. Shame really. Guess I'll be getting most of what I want at retail.
Zond wrote: I'm in for a dollar, but it seems like little point as a lot of the pledge levels will be locked out post kickstarter. Shame really. Guess I'll be getting most of what I want at retail.
The only ones locked out will be Ultimate Tyrant and the limited Total Warfare. The rest will be available, including a $250 Total Warfare.
Yarp. A good bit of the value is in addons like the 3/$40 sets and especially the 20/$20. Don't expect things to hit that cheap at retail, even with 3rd party discount retailers. Probably more than double that until you get into army bundles. Striders are 20/16 or so right now so $13.33 is a bit better, possibly not worth the wait, depends on what else one is getting. The $1 pledge is a very viable alternative to the big stuff, depending on interest. The battlegroups have a lot of value in them, but only if you want everything.
I may drop out to a dollar myself, or simply pick a dollar pledge over my UT. I'm in an odd position compared to most backers as I'm inclined to spend my money up front and figure out what to do with it later, as i may not have it laying around still if I wait for the PM later on.
Apologies for the off hand expression of "a lot". The two pledge levels I want, or more accurately two post kickstarter Ultimate Tyrants. No need to get picky on semantics.
One Dollar is all I can spend right now. I hope to have some money for an Asterian battlegroup later and tbh I want to see more of the rules first before committing to Warpath. While also having a Spacemarine army I could use and more games to play with then I will ever have the time. And without the Asterian flyer in HiPs the faction isn't as complete as the others. I wish they would have gone for the Asterian flyer first though I understand their approach.
I want to see (at least) renders of the Corps plastics, hope they adjust the Corp dune buggy a bit, and will likely get a few sprues of the plastic 3rd Gen plague critters, and maybe some Corps troops. May add the metal Corp female leader fig. If they can put out a decent draft of Firefight, and I like it, I may add a copy of that too. A 4x4 mat (6x4 is too big for my current place) would be cool.
EDIT: Oh, and as just mentioned, I want to see what my stuff from the last DZ KS looks like.
I'm also in for 1$. I want to see actual pictures of the GCPS stuff before I fork over any real money. I know I won't during the campaign, and I'm ok with that. But I'm not handing money over sight unseen either.
Man, I love this stuff so far. I know this is probably heresy, but anyone else think Mantic should add a new warpath faction of holy female warriors? Couldn't hurt pledge levels.
The fact is, nobody knows how much $1 backers are actually in for. Some of them could be sitting on a couple of those 20 for 20 infantry deals or a few mules or the battlemat. Or they could be waiting like the rest of us. I imagine there's a few who just want updates too.
MLaw wrote: That's the Corp character locked. Looks like they decided to go with the Asterian transport next after all.
They locked the Corp Character in favor of the Asterian transport?
That's weird...
Sorry.. pre-coffee posting. She was up next anyway.. she's locked in now. The Asterian Transport is up next. For a while Mantic was asking if people wanted the Asterian flyer thingy or a GCPS/Plague vehicle kit. Maybe the Mule was what they meant but I thought it was in reference to the dropship or main battle tank.
pretre wrote: I know this is probably heresy, but anyone else think Mantic should add a new warpath faction of holy female warriors? Couldn't hurt pledge levels.
The idea I once suggested for this was the Order of the Shield - a militarised Salvation Army, basically, founded to protect established human colonies after the Corporation's own invasion forces move on.
pretre wrote: I know this is probably heresy, but anyone else think Mantic should add a new warpath faction of holy female warriors? Couldn't hurt pledge levels.
The idea I once suggested for this was the Order of the Shield - a militarised Salvation Army, basically, founded to protect established human colonies after the Corporation's own invasion forces move on.
That would be awesome and make them a bunch of cash. Hard plastic not-SOB.
I'm most likely dropping down to a dollar as well.
I'm much more interested in Fire Fight than Warpath itself, and honestly, I'm really only looking to supplement my Deadzone stuff.
I still wish for a Deadzone sampler pledge at roughly the same price as Advanced Warfare, with a few of the new plastics for each faction, maybe some of the metal characters, toss in a vehicle... it wouldn't break the bank for Mantic, especially if they locked in what you got.
Guess I'll just go in for add ons in the PM. Wouldn't have minded still getting the book and all the bonuses with the pledge levels though.
so it's $1 only for mantic (although I'd want to see at least early renders of the GCPS troops & Mule, and the Veer-myn tunneller before I'd have done more than that anyway)
I wonder what they're waiting for/need to see before upping?
I'm at $115 but I personally may need to drop to $1 depending on my budget (which sucks as I will have a bunch of free money a few days after the KS ends). Three week surprise kickstarter didn't give me enough time to budget, honestly.
Probably going to go in for a dollar, too, actually. Didn't realize that the lowest level pledge comes with PDFs of the rules. On the off-chance they actually turn into something good, I can use them for something. And when the pledge manager rolls around, I might add on some odds and ends, again depending on how the concept art translates into actual models.
pretre wrote: I know this is probably heresy, but anyone else think Mantic should add a new warpath faction of holy female warriors? Couldn't hurt pledge levels.
The idea I once suggested for this was the Order of the Shield - a militarised Salvation Army, basically, founded to protect established human colonies after the Corporation's own invasion forces move on.
That would be awesome and make them a bunch of cash. Hard plastic not-SOB.
Stop triggering my BTSD... Basilean traumatic stress disorder.
I'm currently in for $115 but the base pledge isn't really that great so I'm likely to drop down to $1 and then just go in on the hard plastic 20-man bundles. That's pretty much the best place for my money considering the shipping costs.
lord_blackfang wrote: It's a universe where people aren't stupid, so it seems unlikely to make a combat unit suck on purpose.
Maybe they have to use certain weapons and tactics to maintain their tax exempt status?
Sonic and microwave weapons. Dial them down to non-lethal levels for peacekeeping duties, dial them up when the Forgefathers show up wanting their planet back.
I wonder what they're waiting for/need to see before upping?
I'm at $115 but I personally may need to drop to $1 depending on my budget (which sucks as I will have a bunch of free money a few days after the KS ends). Three week surprise kickstarter didn't give me enough time to budget, honestly.
You have up to seven days to pay the balance otherwise they cancel your transaction so you should be good for the 115
DaveC wrote: No one posted the Asterian Chira Transport WIP yet?
Spoiler:
Off to a good start just hope the small wings can support the side pods properly.
And a clue to the next stretch goal: The Wheels of Squeal
It's HIPS, so those engines are hollow (and light) and the wall thickness on those wings is probably 1-2mm all round. I'm pretty sure those will be fairly robust.
DaveC wrote: No one posted the Asterian Chira Transport WIP yet?
Spoiler:
Off to a good start just hope the small wings can support the side pods properly.
And a clue to the next stretch goal: The Wheels of Squeal
It's HIPS, so those engines are hollow (and light) and the wall thickness on those wings is probably 1-2mm all round. I'm pretty sure those will be fairly robust.
for display I wouldn't worry, but I think Bolognesus has a point when it comes to a gaming model being pulled in and out of foam cases, they could end up a weak point if mantic isn't careful
If there's going to be a problem with it, it will be the center of gravity and not structural strength. It does not look like it will be possible to put the flying stand directly underneath the center of gravity (because there's nothing there), and if that is true, it will exert some torque on the top of the stand. GW used to use flying stands with a small peg on top that was prone to snapping, and if Mantic uses the same method an off-center flying stand would be more vulnerable.
I wonder what they're waiting for/need to see before upping?
For me it's my Kings of War 2 pledge to arrive. I got the Blaine figure, but not my living legend pledge. Nothing but auto responses from the missing order forms. I posted in the warpath Kickstarter and THAT got a response. Too bad they don't care anymore after the ship everything (well enough of everything to call it everything) to listen to complaints and take care of their customer base. There are plenty of others waiting at the $1 pledge level also. Plus why put in the money up front when I can wait till the pledgemanager arrives? Are they really not going to unlock the fake stretch goals?
Signed up as a $1.00 backer for now. Dakka posts and my general unfamiliarity with Mantic are leading me to air on the side of caution. I usually go for GW models, how does Mantic stack up detail/quality wise? I've never done a KS before, so I'm a little leery.
Their new HIPs stuff is getting there, but not up to the latest GW levels of sharpness/detail, but pretty good,
their metals are pretty good (although some stuff that the QC department should spot does get through but you can get this replaced if you're unluck enough to get them)
Their older restic stuff is either OK, or horrible depending on how prepared you are to work with the material (cleaning it us is a pain)
Mantic's hard plastic sci-fi models are excellent, details, extra parts and overall quality are just as good as GW.
Here are some good hi-res pics of the Enforcer sprue, equips 5 models with rifles and/or assault weaponry and has 2 heavy weapon options too, if you zoom in you can get a feel for how fine the detailing is on some parts like the guns and wristblades:
grumpy_newenglander wrote: Signed up as a $1.00 backer for now. Dakka posts and my general unfamiliarity with Mantic are leading me to air on the side of caution. I usually go for GW models, how does Mantic stack up detail/quality wise? I've never done a KS before, so I'm a little leery.
Well, the thing with a kickstarter is that you aren't making a purchase. You are making a pledge, and they almost certainly will provide you the "rewards" associated with that pledge, but don't think that any consumer protections apply. If they fail to deliver, or deliver late, or deliver something very different... you are stuck with it. Mantic has always delivered, and has a good track record for timely delivery. Individual packages can often be short (or plus!) items, and it can take a while to get it corrected. One of the biggest frustrations with Mantic is that every kickstarter has a huge error rate, and then they say "we have so many complaints it will take us too long to fix them all." In short, Mantic is reliable, but not strictly professional when compared to other major companies.
Mantic's models are a mixed bag. The technical quality isn't bad, and generally runs roughly at the level of early 2000's GW sprues. Compared to modern GW, Malifuax, or Warlord sprues, they are a bit underdetailed and lack posability. The aesthetic quality is a matter of taste, some like their stuff, some don't.
However, they look good painted up, and are generally cheap enough to make up for some of their downsides. here are some painted corporation troopers (the older, restic models), that I think look quite nice in a very simple color scheme.
Spoiler:
If you have the cash, and don't mind waiting a year for your toys, it's not a bad thing to take a flier on.
The HIPS zombies and photos of Veer-myn sprues say that their HIPS are not all up to those standards SS.
While not horrible, they are not super sharp or crisp like the aforementioned GW sprues.
found some pics of Pathfinder sprues too
I have Enforcers and Forgefathers and yes, for the most part those HIPS are very very sharp. I also have zombies though and there's some unwanted softness there.
MLaw wrote: I have Enforcers and Forgefathers and yes, for the most part those HIPS are very very sharp. I also have zombies though and there's some unwanted softness there.
The zombies (and ghouls, and skeletons, and elves, and dwarves) are done by Renedra, which, amusingly, is the former head of GW's plastics division (and whose company GW bought to start their plastics)
Sculpted traditionally (3up) and tooled in the UK.
The Enforcers and Forge Guard are newer sprues, 3D designed and tooled in China.
grumpy_newenglander wrote: Signed up as a $1.00 backer for now. Dakka posts and my general unfamiliarity with Mantic are leading me to air on the side of caution. I usually go for GW models, how does Mantic stack up detail/quality wise? I've never done a KS before, so I'm a little leery.
Well, the thing with a kickstarter is that you aren't making a purchase. You are making a pledge, and they almost certainly will provide you the "rewards" associated with that pledge, but don't think that any consumer protections apply. If they fail to deliver, or deliver late, or deliver something very different... you are stuck with it. Mantic has always delivered, and has a good track record for timely delivery. Individual packages can often be short (or plus!) items, and it can take a while to get it corrected. One of the biggest frustrations with Mantic is that every kickstarter has a huge error rate, and then they say "we have so many complaints it will take us too long to fix them all." In short, Mantic is reliable, but not strictly professional when compared to other major companies.
Mantic's models are a mixed bag. The technical quality isn't bad, and generally runs roughly at the level of early 2000's GW sprues. Compared to modern GW, Malifuax, or Warlord sprues, they are a bit underdetailed and lack posability. The aesthetic quality is a matter of taste, some like their stuff, some don't.
However, they look good painted up, and are generally cheap enough to make up for some of their downsides. here are some painted corporation troopers (the older, restic models), that I think look quite nice in a very simple color scheme.
Spoiler:
If you have the cash, and don't mind waiting a year for your toys, it's not a bad thing to take a flier on.
Non-delivers are now being investigated by various law enforcement agencies (there have been numerous articles about it). I agree with delivery of substandard items though. What can you actually do if what's delivered ends up sucking???
MLaw wrote: I have Enforcers and Forgefathers and yes, for the most part those HIPS are very very sharp. I also have zombies though and there's some unwanted softness there.
The zombies (and ghouls, and skeletons, and elves, and dwarves) are done by Renedra, which, amusingly, is the former head of GW's plastics division (and whose company GW bought to start their plastics)
If they have the Mantic logo on them and it's what you get when you buy Mantic, then it doesn't matter who is doing the tooling.
scarletsquig wrote: Mantic's hard plastic sci-fi models are excellent, details, extra parts and overall quality are just as good as GW.
I respectfully disagree. Comparing two of both companies' best kits, GW's Dark Eldar Kabalites and Mantic's Enforcers (Mantic's most varied soldier kit so far with two sprues of parts), it's clear that GW's products have more sharpness, and at least in their best kits, more variety.
HOWEVER, that said, Mantic is getting a lot closer, and I'm a big, big fan of that Enforcer sprue. True, it's not up to the level of the Kabalites, but it's still very good. I have plenty of hard plastic enforcers and will be buying more without regret or hesitation. I'd field them against my Dark Eldar with no comparative embarrassment, and both forces would look excellent on the table. Furthermore, Dark Eldar notwithstanding (one of GW's strongest lines in terms of sculpt quality, IMHO), I often prefer Mantic's designs to GW's. Again, compare the Enforcers to GW's Space Marines. The Enforcers aren't without flaws - their helmets are smaller than they should be to have heads proportional to their bodies inside them - but GW's Space Marines still look frankly cartoonish and childish next to them. (If you consider the Enforcers robots / androids and the helmet IS their head, or if you replace the heads with larger ones from another line, you're good to go. Or you can do what I do and just go with the aesthetic. It doesn't bother me anymore, and I love the Enforcer line. And truthfully, GW's Kabalites don't have believable head to body proportions either.)
The guff you sometimes hear about bad Mantic hard plastic is entirely rooted in a couple of old fantasy kits - Men-at-Arms and Goblins - that they made years ago. The new sci-fi stuff has been consistently good. Personally I'm buying all of the new hard plastic trooper kits, because you won't find better deals on them anywhere else ($1 per figure at 20 for $20), and Mantic has won my trust on hard plastic figures.
I'm not quite as sure about their hard plastic vehicles, as they've done less in that area up to now. But the signs are good enough that I plan to bite; their hard plastic terrain is great.
Vermonter wrote: The Enforcers aren't without flaws - their helmets are smaller than they should be to have heads proportional to their bodies inside them -
MLaw wrote: What can you actually do if what's delivered ends up sucking???
Nothing. That's the catch with Kickstarter in general. You may get a great deal on something awesome, or you may get junk. The project could implode, and then you get nothing. It's a real gamble.
Has there really been a huge problem with rewards not being delivered? If so, that's deeply troubling and one more reason to steer clear of buying anything Mantic before it hits retail.
Vermonter wrote: The Enforcers aren't without flaws - their helmets are smaller than they should be to have heads proportional to their bodies inside them -
Is it fair to say Mantic ALMOST got them right?
I guess so, but by the same token, I'd say GW ALMOST got the Dark Eldar Kabalites right.
I find both the Enforcers and Kabalites excellent, with Kabalites having a noticeable but not damning edge in quality of production and variety on the sprue. But I'm not sure any company makes perfect kits aesthetically / proportionally. At some juncture you always have to choose to "suspend your disbelief" and go with the aesthetic of the product, or not.
Vermonter wrote: The Enforcers aren't without flaws - their helmets are smaller than they should be to have heads proportional to their bodies inside them - but GW's Space Marines still look frankly cartoonish and childish next to them.
This is kind of a matter of opinion. I'm a huge fan of truescale - Hasslefree Modern/PostApoc, Fife & Drum, Perry, etc, and the Mantic Enforcers look dead on to me. I frankly can't stand the 90's hamfist/melonhead aesthetic anymore that GW has a death grip on (though the Stormcast Eternals are basically truescale 1/35 models, which I love)
For example I have several units of Hasslefree's sci-fi infantry, which are truescale, and look pretty much perfect next to the Enforcers - though the Enforcers have thicker abdomens, which I attribute to the hard armor and integral jetpacks.
But I also recognize that some people like larger heads on their plastic soldiers, so I understand the complaint (for those that are looking for a nice alternative, Pig Iron Productions makes great sci fi head sprues)
MLaw wrote: What can you actually do if what's delivered ends up sucking???
Nothing. That's the catch with Kickstarter in general. You may get a great deal on something awesome, or you may get junk. The project could implode, and then you get nothing. It's a real gamble.
Has there really been a huge problem with rewards not being delivered? If so, that's deeply troubling and one more reason to steer clear of buying anything Mantic before it hits retail.
OK, two issues here:
STUFF MISSING:
Speaking for myself, I've always considered Mantic one of the safer Kickstarter bets in terms of actually delivering. They're an existing company, for one thing. They have capital and a product line to fall back on, so a kickstarter campaign won't bankrupt them, or see them tootling off to the Bahamas with other people's money. And kickstarter funding is ultimately too important to them to allow them to just screw people over and never deliver product at all. Too much of that would damn their reputation and their future campaigns.
That said, I'm still waiting to get some items from Dreadball Xtreme that were never delivered. In my case, they shipped one team I didn't want for one that I did, and two individual figures just weren't sent at all.
Things like that have happened to me in the past with Mantic, and I've always followed up, let them know, and gotten my stuff in the end. The DBX wait has been the longest yet, and I'm not sure why. I guess the person in charge is swamped for some reason or another, and frankly they need to work on improving their response time. But I'm not concerned that I'll never get my missing items. I'm just annoyed that it has taken as long as it has this time.
STUFF SUCKING:
I'd say Mantic's hit to miss ratio, and faithfulness to concept art, has dramatically improved, to the point where I often pledge for things based on concept art and am rarely disappointed. But anytime you pledge based on concept art particularly, there is a bit of a gamble that the product won't measure up or even resemble it. On kickstarters, the safest bets are always the sculpts that are already made and shown, although even then production can let you down by not producing them to the same quality as the master resins. Here too, I don't have an issue with Mantic anymore. They've come a long way.
The larger head quibble sometimes is more about the fact that helmets are freakin big. Otherwise I agree about the clownish proportions sentiment. I wouldn't say Mantic is spot on in proportions and anatomy but they certainly have reeled in the "heroic" scale thing to a level that doesn't feel absurd.
It's a shame that GW has taught people to expect such odd anatomy.. they're like the Rob Leifeld of wargames. I am very happy that Mantic is taking noticeable efforts to step out of the GW knockoff shadow.
Vermonter wrote: The Enforcers aren't without flaws - their helmets are smaller than they should be to have heads proportional to their bodies inside them - but GW's Space Marines still look frankly cartoonish and childish next to them.
This is kind of a matter of opinion. I'm a huge fan of truescale - Hasslefree Modern/PostApoc, Fife & Drum, Perry, etc, and the Mantic Enforcers look dead on to me. I frankly can't stand the 90's hamfist/melonhead aesthetic anymore that GW has a death grip on (though the Stormcast Eternals are basically truescale 1/35 models, which I love)
For example I have several units of Hasslefree's sci-fi infantry, which are truescale, and look pretty much perfect next to the Enforcers - though the Enforcers have thicker abdomens, which I attribute to the hard armor and integral jetpacks.
But I also recognize that some people like larger heads on their plastic soldiers, so I understand the complaint (for those that are looking for a nice alternative, Pig Iron Productions makes great sci fi head sprues)
I was trying to be honest about what many have regarded as the Enforcer's most significant flaw. Personally, I see what they're saying, but it doesn't bother me. I definitely didn't mean to imply that GW's unrealistic take on large heads was better. If I had my druthers, I'd make the Enforcer heads slightly larger, but nowhere near as big as GW's. But that's a pretty minor quibble for me.
Actually, Judgedoug, maybe we can reach a consensus after the Deadzone Infestation plastics arrive. If the Peacekeeper heads are proportional to their bodies and not over-sized, but those heads turn out to be the same size as a standard Enforcer helmet head (and therefore couldn't fit inside one), would we then agree that the helmet head proportions aren't spot-on?
If I'm just speaking for myself, my biggest issue with the HIPS Enforcer heads is that they aren't quite as crisply detailed as Mantic's PVC Enforcer heads were. But they get so very close that, again, even that's not a big issue for me.
Bottom line, we both love the kit. Personally I find the heads require some suspension of disbelief, which I'm happy to provide, but nowhere near the level of disbelief required for a GW space marine, which I just can't swallow anymore.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MLaw wrote: It's a shame that GW has taught people to expect such odd anatomy.. they're like the Rob Leifeld of wargames. I am very happy that Mantic is taking noticeable efforts to step out of the GW knockoff shadow.
That's a brilliantly apt and very sad analogy. I'd exhalt it if it didn't depress me.
I love it when Mantic steps away from GW's aesthetic. I'm disappointed when they decide not to, as with their Orx Marauder Commandos, but I do understand that it probably makes financial sense in some cases.
I must have gotten a bad casting (on both bags) on my DZ PVC enforcers. Sharp isn't even close to being what I would use to describe those Enforcers. I am happy I hadn't built half of them because I can put the HIPS parts on there to shore up some of the softness.
MLaw wrote: What can you actually do if what's delivered ends up sucking???
Nothing. That's the catch with Kickstarter in general. You may get a great deal on something awesome, or you may get junk. The project could implode, and then you get nothing. It's a real gamble.
Has there really been a huge problem with rewards not being delivered? If so, that's deeply troubling and one more reason to steer clear of buying anything Mantic before it hits retail.
OK, two issues here:
STUFF MISSING:
Speaking for myself, I've always considered Mantic one of the safer Kickstarter bets in terms of actually delivering. They're an existing company, for one thing. They have capital and a product line to fall back on, so a kickstarter campaign won't bankrupt them, or see them tootling off to the Bahamas with other people's money. And kickstarter funding is ultimately too important to them to allow them to just screw people over and never deliver product at all. Too much of that would damn their reputation and their future campaigns.
That said, I'm still waiting to get some items from Dreadball Xtreme that were never delivered. In my case, they shipped one team I didn't want for one that I did, and two individual figures just weren't sent at all.
Things like that have happened to me in the past with Mantic, and I've always followed up, let them know, and gotten my stuff in the end. The DBX wait has been the longest yet, and I'm not sure why. I guess the person in charge is swamped for some reason or another, and frankly they need to work on improving their response time. But I'm not concerned that I'll never get my missing items. I'm just annoyed that it has taken as long as it has this time.
STUFF SUCKING:
I'd say Mantic's hit to miss ratio, and faithfulness to concept art, has dramatically improved, to the point where I often pledge for things based on concept art and am rarely disappointed. But anytime you pledge based on concept art particularly, there is a bit of a gamble that the product won't measure up or even resemble it. On kickstarters, the safest bets are always the sculpts that are already made and shown, although even then production can let you down by not producing them to the same quality as the master resins. Here too, I don't have an issue with Mantic anymore. They've come a long way.
I really should have clarified better. The first part was more of a general comment/critique on Kickstarter, not Mantic. While most miniature kickstarters work out fine, there aren't any real codified protections for backers if things go pear-shaped. For better or worse, backers are taking a risk when they pledge. As for Mantic, this is the first I've heard about people not getting rewards, to the point of involving law enforcement. As a potential customer, this is a hugely important issue to me.
As for stuff sucking, that's a subjective issue. For me, some new kits are very nice. Some, however, stand out as obvious failures. Personally, I don't feel confident enough to pledge money for models that currently only exist as concept art.
New Blaine mini at 2808 Backers - added free to Ultimate Tyrant and Total Warfare - $8 otherwise Ks exclusive. Speaking of Total Warfare they added another 150 at the $235 price.
Blaine looks neat. That looks like some kind of Plague infected weapon. How does that work? Tunnel Runners are neat as well. Remind me of the Cobra Buzz Boar. I would've preferred to see the GCPS Hornet though first since they don't have a HIPS vehicle.
Yeah, I'll catch this stuff on clearance. Mantic holding Blaine hostage for TW and up is that little thing that tipped me over into ambivalence. The TW tax had already put me at the edge. Everyone else enjoy.
MLaw wrote: Yeah, I'll catch this stuff on clearance. Mantic holding Blaine hostage for TW and up is that little thing that tipped me over into ambivalence. The TW tax had already put me at the edge. Everyone else enjoy.
What are you talking about? I'm just adding $8 onto my normal $115 pledge to get him
Like you're upset he's not free at pledges lower than TW?
That would be awesome and make them a bunch of cash. Hard plastic not-SOB.
Hey! They can't do that until AFTER I get my Toughest Girls in the Galaxy sisters!
I dropped to the rulebook pledge and will reconsider when the pledge manager appears. Not too fussed about an army deal, but a lot of bits and pieces appeal, and we may have a better idea what the Pathfinders, Steel Warriors, jetbikes and Nightcrawler plastics look like.
Barzam wrote: Tunnel Runners are neat as well. Remind me of the Cobra Buzz Boar.
An asymmetrical design like the Buzz Boar would be a good idea. Sticking the cockpit in the middle of the wheel has obvious problems with regard to visibility, so having the driver in a sponson makes more sense.
NTRabbit wrote: Disappointed Blaine is just in peacekeeper armour, a let down after the dinosaur and the jetbike.
I'm just glad we didn't get Blaine shrunken to tiny size so he'd fit inside a Strider. I am not a fan of those things when they have open cockpits to display their mini-me drivers.
NTRabbit wrote: Disappointed Blaine is just in peacekeeper armour, a let down after the dinosaur and the jetbike.
I'm just glad we didn't get Blaine shrunken to tiny size so he'd fit inside a Strider. I am not a fan of those things when they have open cockpits to display their mini-me drivers.
Strider my arse, he'd have been in a complete custom job, just like his bike
I was actually hoping the AJAX would be something closer to this. A more advanced, more humanoid version of the Strider with a proper head and a vaguely Enforcer-like appearance.
Yeah they haven't confirmed anything though we know it won't be hard plastic. Pretty sure the last HP thing coming up is the hornet and that towards the end .
How was the resin Stuntbot and Pathfinder bike for Deadzone backers? Good casting quality, easy to work with? Have never had any proper resin from Mantic so would like to know what to expect if I opt for Mules etc.
Didn't get the stuntbot but the pathfinder on bike was pretty good. Some weird transparent resin used for certain parts iirc but in no way does that negatively affect the model, that was just more of a peculiar thing
It's the space-future, weapons should be smaller. I'm not particularly impressed either though, I'll probably just tack some of those explosive looking things on the eisenkern accessory sprue onto some regular assault enforcers, I've got one of those apparently rare metal tberm gunners.
Ahhhhh the squeel wheels are awesome, probably going with space rats now, unless dorfs get a trouble bubble or something. Fun stuff! Throw one in the battlegroup already.
I'd like to issue a warning to anyone pledging on Mantic Kickstarters.
I have been working in Mantic's design studio as a sculptor for almost 2 years (and you can easily figure it didn't end well) and would like to share some of my experience here for you to consider if you want to pledge blindly or not. I read many people prefer to get in for 1$ and wait to see the final product before commiting more, and that's probably wise.... (assuming you can see the final product before paying, but sometime they conveniantly won't show anything before you have to pay...)
Mantic isn't about doing good miniatures and do very little effort in this direction. In 2 years I have seen a lot done in the financial, commercials and marketing departements, but very little done in the artistic departement. There is no artistic direction, no one in charge at mantic has any artistic background or is in position to see the difference between a good miniature and a bad one and anyway they just don't think good miniatures will sell better or are the reason why people pledge so won't do much effort to improve the quality of their ranges. Really they just want to do things for cheap and sell as much as they can without caring too much about the quality of the product.
I'm not saying they don't do any good ones, but generaly it means the sculptor has been zealous. Mantic is happy to have better miniatures this way but will make no effort to get consistant quality. You can not consider the quality of some previous miniatures to judge the quality of what you'll get next as you don't know who will do them and in which conditions.
They have little respect for their customers, and there is a lot of bs in mantic KS. I have been told on several occasion that something was added at the end of a kickstarter to make some extra cash and that the quality didn't matter (I'm sorry if you bought some of those minis unseen, I tried to make them good anyway when I could...). They prefer to avoir showing wip or greens from fear people won't like them and may requiere change they don't want to make... I have an interesting anecdote about the deadzones marauders I'll have to tell you....
I have seen a lot of amateurism at all levels and have a lot of horrors story about mantic to tell but this post is already long enough, I'll develop that later.
Just keep in mind there have been a lot of mistakes and deceptions in the past, and you can expect a lot more in the future.
I'm not saying you shouldn't buy anything from mantic, if you like everything they do, good for you, but if you have some doubt about what you got from them in the past be carefull and wait for the final product.... (anyway the same minis will be at the same price or cheaper in the next kickstarter in a few months, that's the company buisness model).
MLaw wrote: I have Enforcers and Forgefathers and yes, for the most part those HIPS are very very sharp. I also have zombies though and there's some unwanted softness there.
The zombies (and ghouls, and skeletons, and elves, and dwarves) are done by Renedra, which, amusingly, is the former head of GW's plastics division (and whose company GW bought to start their plastics)
Sculpted traditionally (3up) and tooled in the UK.
The Enforcers and Forge Guard are newer sprues, 3D designed and tooled in China.
I think they are talking about the deadzone zombies, which are also made in china by the same manufacturer. Same for the vermyn sprue.
Spoiler:
MLaw wrote: The HIPS zombies and photos of Veer-myn sprues say that their HIPS are not all up to those standards SS.
While not horrible, they are not super sharp or crisp like the aforementioned GW sprues.
found some pics of Pathfinder sprues too
I have Enforcers and Forgefathers and yes, for the most part those HIPS are very very sharp. I also have zombies though and there's some unwanted softness there.
doing high tech armor and organic creatures is very different, from both plastic casting and 3D sculpting, and I suspect both aspects are taken at fault here.
You shouldn't expect enforecers quality on all the new sprues...
Maybe wait to see what is coming for the KoWKS as an indication of what to expect from Mantic in the future....
I'm not sure about these new specialist enforcer upgrades, would much rather see the weapons as conversion kits on their own without needing to buy another sprue of enforcers as like many others I already have loads of plastic Enforcers anyway.
I really like the Veer-myn concepts though, if they turn out nice I will definitely get some at some point.
Sounds like sour grapes to me. They could definitely use more QC but to saying they don't care about their customers or the quality of ther minis is BS, they are a small company that deal with ALOT of customers so some fall through the cracks (funny I've never had a problem with them in getting any issues resolved...) and their minis are getting better and better every time!
As for the new Enforcer stretch goal I would prefer the upgradesto be in resin (wont go near metal upgrade components) and would prefer one of the other races to get some attention as there is enough Enforcer bits for people to play around with....
Yeah the Asterians are still very short, have been since Deadzone, they lack something in the class of a Strider, they still need the tank variants of the transport, a lighter vehicle between the tank and the sky razor bikes, and something in the large infantry weight category.
The Asterian Strider equivalent was asked about and they said they didn't want to do something that was just a larger Cypher and that the weapon drones fulfil that role to some extent so something else is going in the slot in the army
DaveC wrote: The Asterian Strider equivalent was asked about and they said they didn't want to do something that was just a larger Cypher and that the weapon drones fulfil that role to some extent so something else is going in the slot in the army
Even if it's not just a larger robit, they do need something - Enforcers have the Strider and Ajax, FF have 4 patterns of Iron Ancestor, GCPS have the Strider and (for the moment) Marauder Stuntbot, the Plague has the Strider, 1st Gen, Teraton and the Aberration, and the Veermyn have the Night Terror.
If the weapons drone is meant to be in that class, then it means the Asterians lack an equivalent to the Goblin Guntrack, FF Jotunn and Surtr, Veermyn Rumbler, Marine Heavy Weapon Support Teams, and maybe the DOG drone?
In any event, the Asterians and the Veermyn both have a pretty short army list in the alpha compared to the Enforcers and Plague.
Mantic isn't about doing good miniatures and do very little effort in this direction. In 2 years I have seen a lot done in the financial, commercials and marketing departements, but very little done in the artistic departement. There is no artistic direction, no one in charge at mantic has any artistic background or is in position to see the difference between a good miniature and a bad one and anyway they just don't think good miniatures will sell better or are the reason why people pledge so won't do much effort to improve the quality of their ranges. Really they just want to do things for cheap and sell as much as they can without caring too much about the quality of the product.
To be honest I suspected all that when they let the Basilean sisters and lion riders through. This KS seems an improvement, but mostly because of existing enforcer stuff, and not by much. If the veermyn doomwheel isn't a final-straw indication that their creative side is kinda moribund, then I dunno.
Mantic isn't about doing good miniatures and do very little effort in this direction. In 2 years I have seen a lot done in the financial, commercials and marketing departements, but very little done in the artistic departement. There is no artistic direction, no one in charge at mantic has any artistic background or is in position to see the difference between a good miniature and a bad one and anyway they just don't think good miniatures will sell better or are the reason why people pledge so won't do much effort to improve the quality of their ranges. Really they just want to do things for cheap and sell as much as they can without caring too much about the quality of the product.
To be honest I suspected all that when they let the Basilean sisters and lion riders through. This KS seems an improvement, but mostly because of existing enforcer stuff, and not by much. If the veermyn doomwheel isn't a final-straw indication that their creative side is kinda moribund, then I dunno.
The other two concepts were far better and not doomwheely but apparently the doomwheel is the one the community wanted when asked to vote via the comments on the ks. The cynic in me reckons they would have picked the doomwheel one anyway, but who knows.
Taaloc wrote: The other two concepts were far better and not doomwheely but apparently the doomwheel is the one the community wanted when asked to vote via the comments on the ks. The cynic in me reckons they would have picked the doomwheel one anyway, but who knows.
I dunno, if I can't see the rat driving the bike then what's the point? They did indicate they liked the idea that one backer proposed, of optional pieces that attach to the guns to make an almost complete sphere again, best of both worlds to satisfy both camps.
Taaloc wrote: The other two concepts were far better and not doomwheely
The sketches on the previous page here, or something else? If the former, I know the monowheel vehicle is a popular thing in sci-fi and even some potential real world imaginings... but even the other designs, applied to space rodents, that are clearly based on GW's fantasy rodents who have their own highly distinctive and notorious hamster-wheel vehicle...?
but apparently the doomwheel is the one the community wanted when asked to vote via the comments on the ks. The cynic in me reckons they would have picked the doomwheel one anyway, but who knows.
I'll guess this why Ronnie or whoever allegedly feels confident in throwing anything out. (Honestly, a choice between these concepts is basically a choice between hamster wheels and hamster balls)
Agree to disagree, I think the veermyn tunnel runners *are* nice. Of course they're just concept art at the moment, but if I end up getting the other two veermyn battlegroups (looking more and more likely unless they give in and do battlegroups for stuff like Mules), I'll definitely want a set to round out my force. Always liked bike/buggy sized vehicles, for some reason.
I think at this point, already having a substantial Enforcer army and a good number of corporation troopers, I'm looking to get. - Corporation battlegroup, Plague Battlegroup, interceptors battlegroup. Although, I'm half tempted to drop the plague battlegroup in favour of the 20 plague troopers for 20 minis deal, which opens up another battlegroup choice if anything particularly appeals to me in the final stages.
Yeah the Asterians are getting the short end of the stick again, just like in Deadzone. They're an incomplete army, while the Enforcers and Plague keep getting more and more. Not really any point in getting an Asterian battlegroup until they take them seriously.
Asterian BG is quite bit off retail. I think I had it tabbed up to at least 100-110 buying the restic now with a 20/20 infantry bundle during the KS. Three more cyphers is even better. I realize they have no big unit but that sounds kind of like a design choice ATM.
Autocannon suggests FF? What about a GCPS sprue upgrade?
GrimDork wrote: Asterian BG is quite bit off retail. I think I had it tabbed up to at least 100-110 buying the restic now with a 20/20 infantry bundle during the KS. Three more cyphers is even better. I realize they have no big unit but that sounds kind of like a design choice ATM.
There's a difference between not opting to go with large units, and not having units at all - Asterians have a distinct lack of choice compared to other armies.
And passing on the Asterian battlegroup is nothing to do with the value for money, and everything to do with the Asterians being badly undersupported by Mantic for three KS projects in a row. If they're going to deprive the army of the unit support it needs in favour of dogpiling ever more Enforcer and Plague stuff, then there's no point in selecting it until they take them seriously. Even the rats are feeling it a little, they're not hugely well off for selections either.
I haven't been paying that close of attention to the alpha rules but if you're seeing a problem I won't contradict you.
The human and once human armies have some kits in common which certainly helps a bit.
Total moving but not as rapidly as it does sometimes. Either we get an extra big push at the end or we won't be getting too terribly much further. As long as they do the hornet I'll be pleased with the progress.
Had a look through the Firefight draft rules, really good stuff.
Broadly very similar to Warpath (Alternate Activation, Orders, Shooting/Melee/Suppression etc.), but with more in common with 40k or the previous version of Warpath in terms of the way units move, army lists are formed, proper per-model interaction and individual model removal. Similar mechanics, re-tooled for individual models in a proper fashion.
Teams/ Hubs are gone completely from both rulesets. Warpath is strict multibase, Firefight is strict individual model.
I know some of you were waiting on Firefight rules before deciding to pledge. Hopefully Mantic can put them up soon, but if not, I'd just like to reassure everyone that they're good.
Taaloc wrote: The other two concepts were far better and not doomwheely
The sketches on the previous page here, or something else? If the former, I know the monowheel vehicle is a popular thing in sci-fi and even some potential real world imaginings... but even the other designs, applied to space rodents, that are clearly based on GW's fantasy rodents who have their own highly distinctive and notorious hamster-wheel vehicle...?
but apparently the doomwheel is the one the community wanted when asked to vote via the comments on the ks. The cynic in me reckons they would have picked the doomwheel one anyway, but who knows.
I'll guess this why Ronnie or whoever allegedly feels confident in throwing anything out. (Honestly, a choice between these concepts is basically a choice between hamster wheels and hamster balls)
This is why we can't have nice things.
Or... This is why the vocal folks in this Dakka thread do not represent the actual target audience of the Warpath KS?
scarletsquig wrote: Had a look through the Firefight draft rules, really good stuff.
Broadly very similar to Warpath (Alternate Activation, Orders, Shooting/Melee/Suppression etc.), but with more in common with 40k or the previous version of Warpath in terms of the way units move, army lists are formed, proper per-model interaction and individual model removal. Similar mechanics, re-tooled for individual models in a proper fashion.
Teams/ Hubs are gone completely from both rulesets. Warpath is strict multibase, Firefight is strict individual model.
I know some of you were waiting on Firefight rules before deciding to pledge. Hopefully Mantic can put them up soon, but if not, I'd just like to reassure everyone that they're good.
that sounds reassuring (although I could have lived with no more than one hub per unit)
scarletsquig wrote: Had a look through the Firefight draft rules, really good stuff.
Broadly very similar to Warpath (Alternate Activation, Orders, Shooting/Melee/Suppression etc.), but with more in common with 40k or the previous version of Warpath in terms of the way units move, army lists are formed, proper per-model interaction and individual model removal. Similar mechanics, re-tooled for individual models in a proper fashion.
Teams/ Hubs are gone completely from both rulesets. Warpath is strict multibase, Firefight is strict individual model.
I know some of you were waiting on Firefight rules before deciding to pledge. Hopefully Mantic can put them up soon, but if not, I'd just like to reassure everyone that they're good.
I was assured directly in the KS messager that suppression will factor in less to Firefight as there is less emphasis on psychology. I was also told Forgefather's new light vehicle will be similar in size to the Mule.
After those messages I can also tell you that the very vocal part of this thread is exactly Mantic's target audience. That has been thoroughly impressed upon me.
Total is molasses today. They're gonna have to do something or be content with a lower total. Hopefully last day shenanigans and the Hornet have enough of an impact to get the hornet locked. I think all that artificial scarcity/pledge pressure pulled money in that usually shows up on the last days.
MLaw wrote: After those messages I can also tell you that the very vocal part of this thread is exactly Mantic's target audience. That has been thoroughly impressed upon me.
I'm not sure I follow your meaning. What is the very vocal part of this thread? The people who are most critical? Everyone here? Whatever demographic Dakka represents?
Wouldn't be surprised if they took one look at this thread then wandered off. Seems like it was a response that you get from automated messages, 'please hold your call is important to us'....
MLaw wrote: After those messages I can also tell you that the very vocal part of this thread is exactly Mantic's target audience. That has been thoroughly impressed upon me.
I'm not sure I follow your meaning. What is the very vocal part of this thread? The people who are most critical? Everyone here? Whatever demographic Dakka represents?
The people who have offered criticism. It has been expressed to me that a lot of the concerns are being addressed (fairly specifically) and those are in line with the things I've heard voiced here. For gameplay the biggest thing I've heard is people looking for FIrefight and they are hearing that and it's reflecting that the expectations for FF are in fact leaning towards a similar experience to a more classical 40k match. Criticisms from here about the Mule, materials used, purchasing options, etc are also all being heard. They added the breacher add-on after people requested it, they've taken in other feedback. Obviously they can't give everyone everything they want..that's just not feasible.
On a more personal level, they saw my specific complaints and communicated with me personally to try to understand where I was coming from. Even if they don't meet the exact expectations I was hoping for, the fact that they're willing to reach more than their immediate diehards is reassuring. It denotes to me that the underpinnings of a gamer company do in fact still exist.
I'm glad to hear that Mantic is willing to listen to the undecideds. Will the new Forgefather vehicle be a flyer or skimmer? Will Blaine be in resin?
overtyrant wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if they took one look at this thread then wandered off. Seems like it was a response that you get from automated messages, 'please hold your call is important to us'....
Are you saying this thread is particularly negative or difficult for a professional business to deal with? If so, have you ever worked with the public before?
Apparently I know 4th graders who could put Mantic into a nervous breakdown.
Also, it was not explicitly said or even implied (directly) but I believe that we will see both the light FF vehicle and the GCPS flyer unlocked regardless of the total. That's really just a hunch but I would plan accordingly. I would also anticipate the FF vehicle having the same price point as the mule and the Hornet the same as the Interceptor.
On another note, they mention a backer stretch goal to hire a professional writer to write a Deadzone novel. That's pretty exciting for me. Hope they don't hire Alastair Reynolds, though; that would be super awkward.
If Mantic is reading this, I hope they choose an established tie-in fiction writer who can handle the background while moving the story. James Luceno, David Mack, Aaron Dembski Bowden, Drew Karpyshyn, brian Daley, James Swallow, or Timothy Zahn would be a coup for them. Graham McNail or Christopher Bennett would be great for compiling and adding elegance to the background. If Mantic hires Karen Traviss, there will be much suffering.
DaveC wrote: Yep confirmed that it's the Magma Cannon Turret added to the image early by accident.
I guess it could be a half track trike
If it was like, a stylised Kettenkrad sort of vehicle it'd be cool. I just don't see the need for a trike when we already have biker gang brokkrs, it's not something that seems to need doubling down on.
I guess the total isn't terribly slow today, just not exploding. Probably more tomorrow. Mantic around to field questions seems to help not insignificantly.
20 minis for $20 for the add on packs sounds almost too good to be true. Are mantis models super low detail/crappy? KS pics look nice, and at that rate I would like to stock up.
grumpy_newenglander wrote: 20 minis for $20 for the add on packs sounds almost too good to be true. Are mantis models super low detail/crappy? KS pics look nice, and at that rate I would like to stock up.
All of the new hard plastic sprues from Mantic are really good, and getting better with each new attempt
e: Mantic could hire Dan Abnett to write it, I hear GW are having real trouble getting him to write anything for them anymore
Its just a really good price, they get more expensive at retail. I have the latest released HP kits, the enforcers, peacekeepers, zombies, and forge guard. They may not be quite up to the nicer gw kits but they're very usable and paint up fine.
