I can't buy more than one battlegroup + vehicle right now, but I'm trying to talk more people into splitting those bigger pledges... just so it lowers my cost.
I hope we get to the 6th army. I think they will be popular.
I want to see more Asterian stuff too. I could easily see me proxying some for Combined Army in Infinity like a cheapskate.
lord_blackfang wrote: Looks like there really were plenty of people waiting for this. It jumped 10k since the update, which is more than like the last 3 days.
A $235 Total Warfare pledge nets you more than most would be able to paint in a year, it is good to see the total rolling again.
Plenty of tyrant pledges are shifting, so if you want a lesser spend on the KS take advantage of the early birds that are becoming available again.
MLaw wrote: did we have missile launchers for Enforcers previously?
Yeah we did, one of the restic Enforcer specialists from Deadzone 1 was a rocket or missile guy, he came in the bag with the sniper, engineer and sentry gun turrets
Also this new Asterian drone seems to the equivalent of strapping a missile onto one of your normal guys in the other armies, whereas the old drone was a big thing more akin to the Mining Laser, Jotun, Goblin Guntrak, and Veermyn Weapons Platform
So, it's more like the hovering support platform that comes with Eldar Troops rather than the heavy weapon that comes in its own box? That's how I understand it.
winterwolf wrote: New pledges get the vehicle prices down $20 if you back out the cost of early bird AW, so good job on that, Mantic.
Ultimate tyrant - BGs are $62 (AW @115 + 5BGs@310)
Even better deal at Total Warfare if you wanted 3 battlegroups and rules - BGs are $60 (AW@115 + 2BGs@120)
I'm sorry, but are you saying the vehicles are $20 so long as we buy a lot of other things that aren't vehicles and subtract their undiscounted value from the whole deal? Because, that's not really a solution to vehicle pricing issues.
winterwolf wrote: New pledges get the vehicle prices down $20 if you back out the cost of early bird AW, so good job on that, Mantic.
Ultimate tyrant - BGs are $62 (AW @115 + 5BGs@310)
Even better deal at Total Warfare if you wanted 3 battlegroups and rules - BGs are $60 (AW@115 + 2BGs@120)
I'm sorry, but are you saying the vehicles are $20 so long as we buy a lot of other things that aren't vehicles and subtract their undiscounted value from the whole deal? Because, that's not really a solution to vehicle pricing issues.
10 vehicles for $235 (then shipping) is pretty good @ $23.50 each if you want that many.
But his analysis at $20 each for extra vehicles is spot on *if you wanted an early bird AW pledge regardless*, which is what he stated.
MLaw wrote: did we have missile launchers for Enforcers previously?
Yeah we did, one of the restic Enforcer specialists from Deadzone 1 was a rocket or missile guy, he came in the bag with the sniper, engineer and sentry gun turrets
Also this new Asterian drone seems to the equivalent of strapping a missile onto one of your normal guys in the other armies, whereas the old drone was a big thing more akin to the Mining Laser, Jotun, Goblin Guntrak, and Veermyn Weapons Platform
So, it's more like the hovering support platform that comes with Eldar Troops rather than the heavy weapon that comes in its own box? That's how I understand it.
If they eventually reveal some new Rebs stuff, I would probably buy in on some sort of "Deadzone Upgrade" Pledge level: new Rebs plus some of the new Plague 3rd gens. Maybe include Steel Warriors for anyone that skipped Infestation, and the new Asterians (although I skipped that faction in DZ1, myself). For Deadzone you really don't need more than a sprue (maybe two) of each.
Otherwise there's not much here that calls my name. Although I would like to see a shot of the Interceptor sitting on top of a Landing Pad battlezone.
winterwolf wrote: New pledges get the vehicle prices down $20 if you back out the cost of early bird AW, so good job on that, Mantic.
Ultimate tyrant - BGs are $62 (AW @115 + 5BGs@310)
Even better deal at Total Warfare if you wanted 3 battlegroups and rules - BGs are $60 (AW@115 + 2BGs@120)
I'm sorry, but are you saying the vehicles are $20 so long as we buy a lot of other things that aren't vehicles and subtract their undiscounted value from the whole deal? Because, that's not really a solution to vehicle pricing issues.
10 vehicles for $235 (then shipping) is pretty good @ $23.50 each if you want that many.
But his analysis at $20 each for extra vehicles is spot on *if you wanted an early bird AW pledge regardless*, which is what he stated.
I guess I'm not enough of a wargamer, then. I can't even imagine dropping $235 on a kickstarter just to save a few bucks each on five or six vehicles beyond what I need or want, vehicles that might not even appeal to me in their final forms. I guess I must not be one of Mantic's real customers, wanting a deal on terms that won't end in marital strife.
Give me enough variety to bump up my current forces (of which I have near enough of most to be comparable to the battle groups) and I'd be all over it.
I'm much more likely to finish painting a DZ squad than everything included in a battleforce sadly.
Mantic Games: Plans for other races...been asked a few times so here's an answer....
Marauders and res are top of the list for their own entries. They can both use the dz figures and the hard plastic from here - such as the corporation vehicle and the rest can use the Corp troops to bulk out their army. Also both of those armies have really strong IPS and they are cool smile emoticon
The marauders will 100% be a merchant faction if they don't get their own army.
But I am also thinking that maybe once these first rise are out a cross over book with a few new armies would be a great way of using aliens etc in wp. I just don't want to promise took any armies and then they are not balanced or tested properly..prefer them to be spot on a d then an expansion with more - when we could support them with plastics too.
Love to see so. Of the pure aliens in the rebs army but getting g a interesting army without 10 tools is the challenge, but I am sure we can solve
When will we see firefight rules (Alpha)?
Mantic Games: Hopefully in next few days. Mark (writer) has been working on them this week
Got any more Corporation teasers?
Mantic Games: There might be a few coming. You never know perhaps the vehicle is actually sculpted!
Will we see any renders for the gcps?
Mantic Games: Yep we are really hopeful these are just around the corner
Are there any plans for bases for Warpath?
I would like the multi bases even if something added at retail like the kow ones
Mantic Games: Yes there are a group of people who want to use the bases to speed up their huge games so well see them at some post but they are not mandatory because we know some people really don't like them
Seems like it was typed up on a cellphone with autowreck.
What I gather from that are a bunch of non-answers and a few very loose milestones. Within a few days = Firefight Alpha
Rebs and Marauders seem to be Dogs of War style merc units. Given how few factions there are, I'm confused at the prospect of having 2 (not just 1) floater lists.
Well, I'd rather have the floater lists for now to hold us over until we get full lists and product releases down the road. Sure, it isn't as amazing as having 12 armies fully kited out with hard plastic kits and rich backstory, but this is still a relatively new thing.
agnosto wrote: Surprising about revs since they're really the only original faction that Mantic has put together so far. Oh well, my wallet appears safe.
You have seen Star Wars, the Last Starfighter, Defiance, etc right?
The old saying about original ideas is ever steady.
I personally feel like Asterians are a Tau twist on an Eldar idea, making them likable by me without feeling like I'm playing proxyhammer.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also.. a side question..
Are the dog drone's form Pathfinders legs poseable at the middle or just at the connection to the body?
Looking at 4 of them like that they seem super static and boardgamish.
I doubt bits that small and thin will be articulated and I'm glad of it, even if they end up a bit samey. Having said that, it looks like they switched the spot where the legs mount to the body to look more like enforcer shoulder/arms which may mean they've got ball joints which might give some more wiggle room.
Sounds like Mantic is looking for feedback as to whether people wanna see the Asterian flyer next or a GCPS/Plague(/rebs?) vehicle next.
It would be super easy to articulate though. A disc on either side creates an opening for a little ball joint. The door gun mounts on the Valkyrie heavy bolters are done that way and I've seen quite a few others as well. I don't want it to move just some kind of freedom. Is it at least HIPS so it can be trimmed off and reposed like Crisis suit legs? Come to think of it, Wave makes little disks like that. Worst case scenario I can just trim the legs down, add my own disks and articulate at will. Wow that was easy
agnosto wrote: Surprising about revs since they're really the only original faction that Mantic has put together so far. Oh well, my wallet appears safe.
You have seen Star Wars, the Last Starfighter, Defiance, etc right?
The old saying about original ideas is ever steady.
I assume he meant original from a TTG perspective, which is mostly valid.
The only 2-player set will be Operation Heracles right? The wording is a little vague and I haven't been following super closely, there is no intent to introduce a different 2-player set in this KS?
insaniak wrote: I have to say, I like the look of the render considerably more than the sketch... The 'face' is more of a suggestion, rather than an actual head stuck on the front of the tank, and that works much better, IMO.
I don't mind the smaller gun, but I do like the big fuel tank on the sketch turret.
While I don't love it, I have to say I prefer the sketch rather than the render. I think I'm better off skipping these entirely until there's a final render or even a prototype.
@Vermonter, It should. I mean 2x total war pledge is very similar to Tyrant. I think i'd rather do the 2x TW myself for the books and tank for 45 bucks. If I need 6 battlegroups, still thinking.
I mean, I doubt we necessarily do another 20-30k tomorrow.... but I think we should maybe see a steadier trickle than we have been since they added value to a lot of battlegroups and made getting more stuff easier/cheaper.
@plastictrees I'm like 95% sure there's just the operation heracles and battlegroups, though you could quite readily make your own 2 player game set by getting total war and picking stuff out you wanted to use. Third battlegroup may stick out a little funny but maybe not.
GrimDork wrote: @Vermonter, It should. I mean 2x total war pledge is very similar to Tyrant. I think i'd rather do the 2x TW myself for the books and tank for 45 bucks. If I need 6 battlegroups, still thinking.
Yeah, I see that 2 x total war reasoning appearing a lot right now. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me, though, as I don't want the extra books.
Also, I expect by the end that Tyrant will have exclusive items / perks that distinguish it from 2x total war.
I've decided to ride the Tyrant roller coaster for now, since I'm not beholden to anything until it ends, and there was very little chance that I was going to buy into the early bird pledge I had anyway. I tried costing out my ideal "a la carte" pledge, and while its contents weren't identical to Tyrant's, they were pretty close, and the price was about the same. (My needs for Deadzone are basically already met, but I'm looking to buy all the Mantic hard plastic soldiers I'll ever need for conversions and experimentation.) Whether or not I stick with Tyrant depends on what it turns into. In the meantime, it's a fun seat to ride at the fair. If I'm not convinced by the end, a smaller, purely a la carte order makes more sense than any early bird for me, and that option won't expire.
agnosto wrote: Surprising about revs since they're really the only original faction that Mantic has put together so far. Oh well, my wallet appears safe.
You have seen Star Wars, the Last Starfighter, Defiance, etc right?
The old saying about original ideas is ever steady.
I assume he meant original from a TTG perspective, which is mostly valid.
The only 2-player set will be Operation Heracles right? The wording is a little vague and I haven't been following super closely, there is no intent to introduce a different 2-player set in this KS?
Yes, that is what I meant and I'm glad that you all understood that I was talking about Rebs after spellcorrect on my phone mangled it.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: Those are some value packed pledge levels right there.
I do not really understand the difference in levels though:
Total Warfare = 3 x battle groups = $225. Other stuff = $10
Ultimate Tyrant =5 x battle groups = $375. Other stuff (same as total warfare iirc =) $50. So the "free" battle group is $40 free.
Still good savings to be made.
Might be worth pointing that out to them? In the regular comments as well as the update comments. Perhaps they'll correct it in some way
I do wonder why they haven't added the MA terrain to the offers? Unless they're doing a 40k and deciding that smashed bricks have no place in space warfare.
I'm just going to let my dollar ride and sort it all out in the pledge manager phase.
I did my Zombicide Black Plague this week, so I'm done until a few days after this ends. We'll see if I can make a loan to let my EB ride and look at other options once we get to the PM instead of dropping to a buck.
The Ultimate Tyrant pledges went very quickly this time around, thankfully they made sure to make 150 of the pledge level, rather than 5 like KoW.
It's a pretty great deal, reducing the cost of each battlegroup down to $62.50.
And you can get multiple Ultimate Tyrants in the pledge manager too, if you picked it during the campaign.
Some quick calculations on Operation:Heracles show it has $150 minimum retail value, so that's about a 60% discount.
If vehicles get an RRP of $40, then it's a 50% discount on vehicle battlegroups, with Ultimate Tyrant.
Hopefully they open up some more! Was really popular and resulted in a massive $45k surge in one day.
Upgrading from AW to UT adds $300 to the total, 150 x $300 = $45k.
It's a good way to encourage people to go big during the KS itself rather than the pledge manager... which is good since this time there won't be any pledge manager stretch goals.
scarletsquig wrote: If vehicles get an RRP of $40, then it's a 50% discount on vehicle battlegroups, with Ultimate Tyrant.
Hopefully they open up some more! Was really popular and resulted in a massive $45k surge in one day.
Upgrading from AW to UT adds $300 to the total, 150 x $300 = $45k.
It's a good way to encourage people to go big during the KS itself rather than the pledge manager... which is good since this time there won't be any pledge manager stretch goals.
If the vehicles are well produced, I assume $40 per vehicle would be a killer price vs. GW's stuff? I don't really pay attention to their vehicle line / prices. $40 RRP discounted would probably mean that the $30 per vehicle KS price isn't much of a deal at all, though.
I hope they add more, too, for the good of the campaign. If they don't, their having teased the possibility of doing so was pointlessly snarky.
And I think they do need some way of encouraging people to commit money during the actual campaign. I know $1 pledges aren't bad for them, since KS doesn't get a cut of what pledgers add-on in the PMs, but there won't be much to add-on if it never gets funded in the first place. And this thing about not adding stretch goals during the PM seems ridiculous to me. It's hard to imagine them not doing the GCPS at this point, whether or not it gets funded during the campaign, as long as it's close. But maybe it's better to say there won't be PM stretches even if they change their minds later, again, just to encourage people to pledge now.
I'm currently sitting on a Tyrant pledge. It's not worth my while yet, due to my particular needs rather than it's actual value, but it's getting darned close. By the end it could be worth the trouble of selling off / trading away all the redundant things I won't need.
I think that pledge manager expectations are being factored into the campaign itself this time.
With 10 Kickstarters under their belt, Mantic will have a pretty good idea of a typical minimum % extra that will be added via pledge manager for any given campaign.
The latest stretch goals have been funding quite a lot of stuff for only $10k or $20k stretches, so it is likely that those are lowball stretches that don't quite cover the manufacturing cost, but with Mantic factoring in some future pledge manager additions (with their own healthy capital to fall back on).
Doing it that way keeps the campaign more exciting and funds more stuff, which people can then add-on right away.
scarletsquig wrote: I think that pledge manager expectations are being factored into the campaign itself this time.
With 10 Kickstarters under their belt, Mantic will have a pretty good idea of a typical minimum % extra that will be added via pledge manager for any given campaign.
The latest stretch goals have been funding quite a lot of stuff for only $10k or $20k stretches, so it is likely that those are lowball stretches that don't quite cover the manufacturing cost, but with Mantic factoring in some future pledge manager additions (with their own healthy capital to fall back on).
Doing it that way keeps the campaign more exciting and funds more stuff, which people can then add-on right away.
It could also cause some rather serious problems down the road, if their formulas and assumptions (!) are a bit off...
scarletsquig wrote: I think that pledge manager expectations are being factored into the campaign itself this time.
With 10 Kickstarters under their belt, Mantic will have a pretty good idea of a typical minimum % extra that will be added via pledge manager for any given campaign.
The latest stretch goals have been funding quite a lot of stuff for only $10k or $20k stretches, so it is likely that those are lowball stretches that don't quite cover the manufacturing cost, but with Mantic factoring in some future pledge manager additions (with their own healthy capital to fall back on).
Doing it that way keeps the campaign more exciting and funds more stuff, which people can then add-on right away.
I think you've nailed it, that makes a lot of sense. I knew they were doing some funny juggling with those low stretch goals for hard plastic.
This would be the reason why they can't even consider doing more hard plastic factions (beyond GCPS) until they get beyond $750k.
Vector Strike wrote: Hey guys, just curious... is there a way to get only the jetbikes? And do they have a similar size to 40k Eldar Jetbikes?
If you pledge for $1, you can just add another $39 plus shipping in the pledge manager to get the 10 bikes for $40 add on.
That's a 3D print of the Jetbike next to a guy on a 25mm base. Should be easy to guess the length of it - I don't have any new Eldar jetbikes so I don't know how big they are.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: Those are some value packed pledge levels right there.
I do not really understand the difference in levels though:
Total Warfare = 3 x battle groups = $225. Other stuff = $10
Ultimate Tyrant =5 x battle groups = $375. Other stuff (same as total warfare iirc =) $50. So the "free" battle group is $40 free.
Still good savings to be made.
Might be worth pointing that out to them? In the regular comments as well as the update comments. Perhaps they'll correct it in some way .
I assume I have missed something there especially as if you double up on TW you get 2x vehicles and 2x rulebooks etc. A great way to introduce a gaming group/friends too. Will be great to see this smash 300k this weekend.
Can't believe I'm saying this, but those pathfinders actually look like really nice sculpts. Might have to pick those up at retail. When are we expecting the items from this kickstarter to hit retail?
The Pathfinders were actually funded by the Deadzone: Infestation KS. Word seems to be a retail release of the DZ: Infestation miniatures for first quarter 2016, so not too long to wait. As for the other stuff funded by this KS they say a delivery date of September 2016, as for retail maybe some for Xmas 2016 but more than likely 2017.
As for this KS, am I ok to drop a $1 pledge and then upgrade to Total War in the pledge manager? And any firm dates on when the pledge manager will run?
They've opened up another 150 Ultimate Tyrants exact same as before plus up next heavy weapons for the Veermyn Tunneler. It also looks like the Ajax Siege Strider is next.
The Alpha rules have place holder entry for a siege Strider the "Ajax" it remains to seen exactly what it is but its likely to be upgrade parts for the current strider
Huh. Just had a look on Amazon to see what discounted GW vehicles go for. There are a lot of them that are in the $30-$40 range. Then there are a few presumably larger ones that run around $60.
I don't generally pay attention to GW vehicles, but I have to admit that I was expecting prices to be much higher.
Whether or not $30 a vehicle is a comparably good price basically depends not only on the production quality, but also on how large these models are, then. Because if they're mostly small to medium sized, I can't see the RRP on these vehicles being higher than Squig's $40 idea, and discounting that will bring it very close to $30.
Yes those are the Deadzone restic ones which are getting added to the Asterian Battlegroup, the other smaller drones are new and have already been funded and added to the Asterian Infantry sprue and by default to the Battlegroup
scarletsquig wrote: The Ultimate Tyrant pledges went very quickly this time around, thankfully they made sure to make 150 of the pledge level, rather than 5 like KoW.
It's a pretty great deal, reducing the cost of each battlegroup down to $62.50.
And you can get multiple Ultimate Tyrants in the pledge manager too, if you picked it during the campaign.
It's a good way to encourage people to go big during the KS itself rather than the pledge manager... which is good since this time there won't be any pledge manager stretch goals.
The thing is, I might possibly be tempted to get an UT in the pledge manager, but with a three week campaign and grown-up bills to pay (as well as other things that came first) the chances of me and others in my situation jumping from $150 to $425 simply isn't going to happen. Now I know you for example have been saving for this WP KS, but that's not exactly a normal situation - it's more of a unique one since you're a rather big Mantic fan. I don't think many people outside of the biggest fans of various companies - who also have some insider knowledge or so forth save up for Kickstarters for months in advance. I mean, I know there's going to be a Zombicide Black Plague Season 2 in 6-8 months, but there's no point saving up for it when there are other things to pay for in the meantime. So Mantic creating a new sweet spot with a week to go in a 3-week campaign is great for some, but not realistic for a whole lot of others.
I dunno they sold those 150 out in hours, and then are nearly 1/3 through a second batch. Nearly 8% of backers have globbed onto those pledges so somebody's buying them.
I still resolve 2x Total Warfare as a better deal where you trade $45 in extra cost to buy a vehicle and all of the books/dice/counters. I'm not for sure that you could toss the spare books on eBay and recoup the whole $45 in a hurry after you get them, but probably for enough to make the 20th theoretical vehicle (you could be buying infantry battlegroups, it's just easier to math with vehicles as the units...technically valuewise the heracles starter is probably highest of any of them) and extra command dice and counters pretty comparatively cheap.
I'm not fussed about the asterian battle group getting an extra big drone thing, but the tunneler laser things are freaking awesome. Does that concept art also then suggest that there's a kind of iris style opening behind the drills for the disgorgement of troops once the drills are raised?
I was going to question the Veer-myn's "chem laser", but I did a Google search first and apparently chemical lasers are a real thing. You learn something every day!
Yeah, I don't think chemical lasers are exactly a proven technology at this point but they are, apparently, a thing. I think there's more science backing those (since they made at least one that at least worked to some degree) than stuff like plasma guns and so on.
If I back that value, it will probably be 2xTW. Would like to stay down at a single TW but we'll see. Corporation may ruin my plans..
Man I wasn't going to say anything but now I think I need to Azazelx my pledge... damn material substitution!
Anyways.... Total did pretty well today. Not as mad-dash as the first load of Ultimate Tyrants, but still a pretty good pickup for what would normally still be the doldrums. I'm hoping we can get past this one and however other many small/less exciting (for some anyway, I mean I'm happy about the chem laser upgrade but it's not *quite* a new faction etc etc) additions and have the GCPS/more vehicles/something unlocked by the 48 hour window.
GrimDork wrote: I dunno they sold those 150 out in hours, and then are nearly 1/3 through a second batch. Nearly 8% of backers have globbed onto those pledges so somebody's buying them.
Sure, and I've got no problem with that. Just with the idea that it'll be "off-limits" to people who didn't grab one during the KS proper. I don't know what I'm worried about really. Mantic is always happy to take on some more funds, and artificial scarcity is an old, established marketing tactic. I guess Squig's post just set me off there. All good now.
I'm not convinced those rules and other junk will have any real value if you get 2x of TW. We're basically all just pledging for miniatures and a possibility of a ruleset that any of us actually like. 2 sets of rules in that kind of
I'll have a good look at this during the PM phase. I don't have any extra cash to throw at this beyond my 1.5 EB, and maybe (?) some of the DZ2 stuff will be in hand by then anyway. Unless they plan to do a combined shipping wave to save on postage? There's a lot of stuff already produced, after all.
One thing that has continued to actually bother me though is the "not" seam-line on the Enforcer dropship.
Take a good, close look. That does not look like "a piece that's been placed on top that's been edge highlighted int he centre." It looks absolutely like a seam line down the middle of the model. Including over and through every panel and texture, including the canopy windscreen.
Beasts of War weekender Warpath coverage starts at 45 minutes. Nothing new in it a good close up look at the Interceptor, the crew compartment has a detailed interior and the GCPS concept is of a ranger so it remains to be seen if they will have different head and weapon options on the sprue for different types of infantry
I don't see the 'seam' across the blue cockpit area in that picture. Given that every aspect of that paint scheme seems designed to repulse the viewer I'm betting the rest is painted on 'highlights'.
Baby poop colored guns? Really?
GrimDork wrote: Yeah, I don't think chemical lasers are exactly a proven technology at this point but they are, apparently, a thing. I think there's more science backing those (since they made at least one that at least worked to some degree) than stuff like plasma guns and so on.
If I back that value, it will probably be 2xTW. Would like to stay down at a single TW but we'll see. Corporation may ruin my plans..
Plasma guns are real. They're called flamethrowers. They just don't behave the way sci-fi would make you expect them to work.
Given that the model in the BoW video is 3d printed I almost wonder if they painted that central line onto the ship to show you where the seam will be on the plastic kit.. because you can bet the main body comes in two halves.
The BOW video gives a great look at the Interceptor, I am a lot more interested in the model as a result of the video. I am sure that a similar video from Mantic on the KS page would drum up a bit more support.
So if I pledge $1 am I able to increase to a Total Warfare pledge in the pledge manager stage? I know that it does not help contribute to any stretch goals but real life bills get in the way.
Of course, the more people that pledge during the campaign, the more we will be able to create, but unfortunately life gets in the way sometimes and you can't afford everything at once.
Not to worry - you will have the chance to add more in the pledge manager following the Kickstarter - can you add more items or even change your reward level. Just back at what you can afford for now.
We'll keep the pledge manager open for a few months to give you a chance to work out exactly what you want.
Excellent, cheers Dave. A forge father and Plague battle group with the FF tank set would suit me down to the ground. And more than makes up for spending a grand to take the missus to Euro Disney in the new year.
I don't know what to make of the seam anymore. It's clear that the painter highlighted it, though, which would be a strange thing to do if it's an artifact of manufacturing and not a design choice. And it's easy not to do that with your own, of course. The dropship in the video doesn't appear to have a seam down the middle of the "glass" cockpit, either, although that might be because of the paint job.
Having seen the video, I do like the design better overall.
I'll never understand Mantic. Sometimes they put out really nice sculpts that I'd love to use in other games, and sometimes they put things out like that gunship. It looks like a cheap generic action figure playset. I kept expecting them to demonstrate its spring-loaded missile action.
Also, that line down the middle is either a super obvious mold line, or a deliberate detail that was engineered to look exactly like a super obvious mold line. It runs across every bit of detail down the length of the craft.
Guildsman wrote: Can't believe I'm saying this, but those pathfinders actually look like really nice sculpts. Might have to pick those up at retail. When are we expecting the items from this kickstarter to hit retail?
Man, I agree! They look excellent. I know they were funded in the Deadzone campaign, but did a different sculptor do the pathfinders... and does Mantic have them sculpting anything else? These days I feel like I need to know the sculptor to pledge based on concept art, and that sculptor is one I'd feel confident pledging towards upcoming work for.
Also, that line down the middle is either a super obvious mold line, or a deliberate detail that was engineered to look exactly like a super obvious mold line. It runs across every bit of detail down the length of the craft.
1) It's a 3D print, which don't have mould lines.
2) On the actual mould, that top panel is a single separate flat piece that sits on top of the two halves.
It's ridged down the middle.
Since it's one piece sits flat (like a Battlezone tile), so it also can't have a mould line.
The grey line is painted on. You can see the ridge in the render above that's been used to compare the ship too.
I think it's weird that people are seeing it as a mold line.
I also think it's weird that the sculptor carried the angled panels across the whole upper portion. The ridged section at the back could have stayed flat.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: The Pathfinders were actually funded by the Deadzone: Infestation KS. Word seems to be a retail release of the DZ: Infestation miniatures for first quarter 2016, so not too long to wait. As for the other stuff funded by this KS they say a delivery date of September 2016, as for retail maybe some for Xmas 2016 but more than likely 2017.
As for this KS, am I ok to drop a $1 pledge and then upgrade to Total War in the pledge manager? And any firm dates on when the pledge manager will run?
Yes. PM will run approx. four weeks after the campaign finishes, closes mid-end of February.
2) On the actual mould, that top panel is a single separate flat piece that sits on top of the two halves.
Much obliged for this clarification.
You seem to know your stuff - have you seen the actual mold? Are you a Mantic employee or pathfinder? You seem better informed than us average Nahasapeemapetilons.
Also, that line down the middle is either a super obvious mold line, or a deliberate detail that was engineered to look exactly like a super obvious mold line. It runs across every bit of detail down the length of the craft.
1) It's a 3D print, which don't have mould lines.
2) On the actual mould, that top panel is a single separate flat piece that sits on top of the two halves.
It's ridged down the middle.
Since it's one piece sits flat (like a Battlezone tile), so it also can't have a mould line.
The grey line is painted on. You can see the ridge in the render above that's been used to compare the ship too.
Fine then. Why did they decide to put a ridge across every detail on the top of the ship? Regardless of what it actually is, it makes the kit look like it has a poorly-hidden seam down the middle.
Those bikes are freaking huge. You know how long enforcers are, and that bike dwarfs it's rider. I think I have maybe 4 coming from DZ:I. I kind of want a few more because of how cool they are but I'm undecided as to if I need a whole whopping 10 more. I'd consider heracles/enforcer battle group but TBH the only thing I need out of heracles is the bikes (and characters I guess). Same for the enforcer group, I don't think I need 8 striders at this point... Its a further conundrum that heracles doesn't have the drop armor dwarfs but they're in the dwarf group.
Meep. Guess I'll figure it out before February
Total is doing pretty well. Almost got the next upgrade thing done.
@Lord Blackfang. Agreed, I think it is a combination of the bloke flying around with the Interceptor in his hand, the better idea of scale and the close up shots.
Azazelx wrote: Take a good, close look. That does not look like "a piece that's been placed on top that's been edge highlighted int he centre." It looks absolutely like a seam line down the middle of the model. Including over and through every panel and texture, including the canopy windscreen.
Look at the panel lines, though- not possible unless it's a separate piece due to the limitations of standard two part steel molds.
Azazelx wrote: Take a good, close look. That does not look like "a piece that's been placed on top that's been edge highlighted int he centre." It looks absolutely like a seam line down the middle of the model. Including over and through every panel and texture, including the canopy windscreen.
Look at the panel lines, though- not possible unless it's a separate piece due to the limitations of standard two part steel molds.
Yup. Gotta be a separate piece. For some reason they put a little ridge on most of it.
So. It's a little ridge. I'm assuming if we don't like it on our own personal models we could fairly easily scrape or file it away (y'know, hard plastic and all)?
I mean I get it that some of you will consider it a design flaw and that you don't buy models to change them to your liking but, meh, certainly doesn't seem like something I'll be concerned over. The real question is can I get by with just one...
GrimDork wrote: So. It's a little ridge. I'm assuming if we don't like it on our own personal models we could fairly easily scrape or file it away (y'know, hard plastic and all)?
I mean I get it that some of you will consider it a design flaw and that you don't buy models to change them to your liking but, meh, certainly doesn't seem like something I'll be concerned over. The real question is can I get by with just one...
Nope. You need 7. One isn't enough. I need like 10.
I suggest getting a quality set of sanding stick and break up that ridge over the panels you don't like it on by using circular motions. I personally think that ridge was a bad call but I think the amount of attention it's gotten is comical.
After seeing the BoW video, the Interceptor is pretty much the size I thought it was. It looks like it could hold *maybe* 5 or 6 models. In a game where you need to field triple digits.. that's not really gonna cut it IMO.
But it *can* apparently carry around peace keepers and it's still a gunship. I don't think it's so much of a dedicated transport as it is a flying tank that can also shoot. But I could be wrong.
I got some sanding sticks. They're pretty nice but I found that the grit wore off of the tip of the stick absurdly quickly and left me resorting to my usual methods instead. If I wanted to buy a couple hundred of them to have on hand...they'd be pretty useful.
Getting dangerously close to beating the current stretch goal tonight, wonder if the mantic lad(s) is(are) around.
Are we at that point that every 40k transport discussion reaches at one point where people don't understand that real soldiers don't have 5 feet of personal space each like minis do?
Quite possibly. Though that bay on the Interceptor does look pretty small to hold very many enforcers. And peace keepers will be crammed in like sardines to fit 5 in that space, maybe if they hug the walls and one lays out on the floor Well, ehh, it's not that tight, but standing room only for peacekeepers for sure. Meh, it's power armor, either unit type is probably magnetically latched to the walls or something. 700 monies to stretch, go go gooooO!
Probably, there's also the skewed perception you get when all of the models are on 25-32mm bases that are 3mm thick (often more so with textured basing) lined up next to vehicles which are not on similarly large bases. Often makes appropriately scaled vehicles like cars and what not from other lines end up looking awfully smaller than they should when they're 'technically the right scale'.
But yeah, they're probably smaller than they ought to be too.
I like the interceptor thingies anyhow. The Enforcers are really cool looking overall. And once I re-wrote the plague into Fallout style Super Mutants in my head, I like them too. I think this could be a slow burning success for Mantic.
But I am thinking maybe I will wait til it's all on retail. 2016 is a long way away. I could get a bunch of battlezones right now and paint them up in preparation.
Having been inside numerous military helicopters and having helped design CBTs for them, people do need a bit of personal space. Especially if you're festooned with gear in a vehicle that's tossing about in the air dodging fire while your mates are getting their guns ready. You need even more space when you're getting back on. As for actual scale.. I'm a pretty staunch supporter of using 1/43-1/56 scale vehicles etc. I am not a fan of most "heroic" proportions as I've felt for a few years that it looks clownish and cartoony.
I have removed a bunch of off-topic chatter. For the record, discussion of potential kits for other games has nothing to do with this kickstarter.
Edit: and if you want to discuss whether or not something is relevant to the thread, maybe try PMing a mod, rather than derailing the thread to discuss whether or not something would be on topic...
Welp glad I wasted my time typing up that response and being so thoughtful as to spoiler the images so as to not bother anyone who wasn't interested in looking. Oh well, off topic is off topic.
Total still gravitating roughly 700 away from current goal for most of the evening, suspect breakage when the sun dawns on whichever group is next. Excited to see what we can hit before the 48 hour warning.
NEW! $330,000 Reinforcements 4 - Free Ajax Siege Strider and Iron Ancestor
Developed during the Trotanic war, the GR95 model Strider, commonly known as the ‘Ajax’ variant, was developed to help corporate forces break through armoured chokepoints. The Ajax has been up-armoured and uses smoke rounds and a heavy ‘Aggressor’ shield, essentially a reinforced and upscaled version of the Defender, to help it survive extended time under fire. Its grav-ram spear can deliver a colossal amount of force to a defined area or launch individual spearheads a short distance against moving targets. Given time, the Ajax can reduce even the strongest structure or armour to rubble and wreckage.
If we hit this goal, we will produce the Ajax Siege Strider and include it free in the Enforcer Battlegroup.
The Ajax upgrade kit allows you to arm the Strider with an enlarged Defender Shield and a Grav-ram Spear, which can be used in combat or as a ranged weapon.
We will include 1 upgrade kit free in with the Strider Formation...
... and you can add-on individual Ajax Siege Striders for $18.
But that’s not all…
One good walker goal deserves another, so we’ll also include a free Iron Ancestor in with every Forge Father Battlegroup when we hit this goal, giving the force some extra hitting power.
Coming Soon:
Asterian Flyer, Plague/GCPS Vehicle or GCPS Troopers - which should be our next hard plastic kit?
Our next hard plastic kit is coming up: which would you want to see and why?
More Iron Ancestors is always a good thing, and the new Strider variant looks pretty cool to me...
I do think we will see some Plague/Asterian grumbles though. One of the problems with basically 5 armies on the go is that people are going to have reason to complain with every update.
A week to go and I have no real idea of the kind of total funding this will end up with.
Not sure about the Grav-ram weapon I might get one but it can wait for the PM. It also depends if they do it in resin or metal - metal would cause a lot of weight and connection issues.
As for the final total KoW2 did $130k in it's last week and WP has always been a bit ahead of it so this one seems to be in $500k range depending on the last 48 hours which for KoW2 was good but not stellar.
RoninXiC wrote: Are there any swappable parts on the Iron Ancestors or will they all be exactly the same?
The Urban Pattern Iron Ancestor has a different backpack, a different gun, and a claw hand instead of a hammer, and the rules have weapon swaps for double melee and double range weapons. They already make a hailstorm autocannon right arm for the Doomstorm, I presume they'll start making a left melee arm for the Thor.
I wonder if The Thor Pattern will get a variant as the DBX version pretty much fits the look of the Assault Weapon only Thor pattern. It's a good stand in for now anyway. I was hoping to rekit the DBX one but he arms are welded on tight.
plastictrees wrote: I think it's weird that people are seeing it as a mold line.
I also think it's weird that the sculptor carried the angled panels across the whole upper portion. The ridged section at the back could have stayed flat.
It looks like a seam. Like the seam where the two halves are glued together. If it's not, it's a really poor design choice to have it run the entire length of the model, since it makes it look like the seam down the middle of the two halves that you might find on a cheap toy. And even modern toys tend to avoid things like seam lines right down the middle.
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GrimDork wrote: So. It's a little ridge. I'm assuming if we don't like it on our own personal models we could fairly easily scrape or file it away (y'know, hard plastic and all)?
I mean I get it that some of you will consider it a design flaw and that you don't buy models to change them to your liking but, meh, certainly doesn't seem like something I'll be concerned over. The real question is can I get by with just one...
Having it as a ridge means that the two "sides" aren't flat, so it'll never look "right" even if you scrape it off. Like a child's drawing of the roof of a house - though at a much less extreme angle. But still, you can scrape the "line" off, but then you end up with an awkwardly "rounded off" piece instead of a flat one.
A massive shield on a strider? Yes please! The group looks good but you only get one upgrade kit and doesn't say what material the upgrades are made from.
Bull0 wrote: The scenery add-ons are more expensive than direct from mantic's store (and are available from third parties for cheaper still). Bold strategy there
The general trend here to peddle so much of existing/previously funded stuff through Kickstarter is gonna be a major blow to any future retailer-strategy by Mantic.
Funding stuff with Kickstarter, later to be sold through retail, is one thing (though not entirely without drawbacks, given retailers miss the "new & shiny" phase of any new product).
The prospect of having Mantic-stock sitting in your store, while Mantic themselves are selling it again through Kickstarter, bundled along with the new & shiny, will make many LFGS think twice before taking up Mantic.
Bull0 wrote: The scenery add-ons are more expensive than direct from mantic's store (and are available from third parties for cheaper still). Bold strategy there
The general trend here to peddle so much of existing/previously funded stuff through Kickstarter is gonna be a major blow to any future retailer-strategy by Mantic.
Funding stuff with Kickstarter, later to be sold through retail, is one thing (though not entirely without drawbacks, given retailers miss the "new & shiny" phase of any new product).
The prospect of having Mantic-stock sitting in your store, while Mantic themselves are selling it again through Kickstarter, bundled along with the new & shiny, will make many LFGS think twice before taking up Mantic.
The existing product like battlezones are priced higher in the project than they are on a regular retail discount, plus at retail you get them now, rather than 6 months from now. Mantic has put the items in the project because so many people have demanded them, but at a price and delay that should be saying "be smarter about this, backer".
Mantic has been on a pro-retailer drive since Dungeon Saga with their retail exclusives, you sound like you haven't really been following much lately.
Bull0 wrote: The scenery add-ons are more expensive than direct from mantic's store (and are available from third parties for cheaper still). Bold strategy there
The general trend here to peddle so much of existing/previously funded stuff through Kickstarter is gonna be a major blow to any future retailer-strategy by Mantic.
Funding stuff with Kickstarter, later to be sold through retail, is one thing (though not entirely without drawbacks, given retailers miss the "new & shiny" phase of any new product).
The prospect of having Mantic-stock sitting in your store, while Mantic themselves are selling it again through Kickstarter, bundled along with the new & shiny, will make many LFGS think twice before taking up Mantic.
The existing product like battlezones are priced higher in the project than they are on a regular retail discount, plus at retail you get them now, rather than 6 months from now. Mantic has put the items in the project because so many people have demanded them, but at a price and delay that should be saying "be smarter about this, backer".
Mantic has been on a pro-retailer drive since Dungeon Saga with their retail exclusives, you sound like you haven't really been following much lately.
Nope. I haven't been following this much lately. Should I, to make sense of this? Should a retailer? I doubt most store-owners have time to calculate things like this through, assuming your account of things is right.
They see the very same stuff the sales-guy is trying to get them to stock on the kickstarter page, likely without in-depth knowledge of the fictional background, the company-history or a detailed price-comparison calculation (and no reason to start one), and thus (likely) decide to invest in M:tG or X-Wing stock instead.
If, what you say is true, it's laudable, but unlikely to register with people having to make the decision, unless they also have a personal strong commitment/interest in Mantic-stuff that makes them "follow stuff closely".
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: Just saw in the KS comments that the Mantic Studio Forge Fathers were painted using GW paints, is that enough for a cease and desist?
Lol. Don't think so. The majority of shots for Kings of War 2nd Ed. Kickstarter was done on Citadel Realm of Battle boards.
Any thoughts on what a GCPS battlegroup is likely to contain?
There really isn't much to draw on. Partially for that reason, I'm inclined to think the group would have 40 hard plastic soldiers, like the Plague group. Maybe even 60 if they're really short of things to put in.
Then there's whatever extra might come on the sprue, along the lines of the enforcer dog, plague dog, mortar, asterian drone thing, etc.
Then probably 2 striders. 2 because there's not much else to put in. If they're really desperate for stuff to stock the battlegroup with, maybe that'll be their answer: 60 hard plastic troopers, three striders, and a metal character.
I hope not, though. I have too many striders as it is. One would be plenty for me.
Then what?
They can't use the old PVC troopers since the hard plastic guys are replacing them.
They used to sell some large Corp. guns with a crew. The don't sell those anymore on their website, but if they reserved their remaining stock for the KS, maybe? On the other hand, if they're phasing them out, not much point in getting new Corp players started with them. And would they really want to do them all in metal, since resin isn't something they're comfortable with, and they don't use PVC anymore? Maybe. A lot of the larger Veer-myn units were done in metal. I don't see that competing very well with hard plastic alternatives readily available already, though. Guns with crews are pretty easy to find, unlike Veer-myn brood mothers.
There's a metal GCPS commander, but a KS-exclusive new character would have a lot more appeal.
If they go for hard plastic troopers they can have added options, and stretch goals, for Corp Rangers, Marines and Veterans. and heavy weapons teams 60 of them, a character, some striders and a new HIPS Corporation tank and the battlegroup would be good to go.
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: If they go for hard plastic troopers they can have added options, and stretch goals, for Corp Rangers, Marines and Veterans. and heavy weapons teams 60 of them, a character, some striders and a new HIPS Corporation tank and the battlegroup would be good to go.
If it's still in production, the PVC heavy weapon would be a good choice.
I think if it's just Corp troopers, a strider or two, and a metal character, I'll pick up some 20/$20 sets of the sprues instead of the battle group. I have enough striders.
Nope. I haven't been following this much lately. Should I, to make sense of this? Should a retailer? I doubt most store-owners have time to calculate things like this through, assuming your account of things is right.
They see the very same stuff the sales-guy is trying to get them to stock on the kickstarter page, likely without in-depth knowledge of the fictional background, the company-history or a detailed price-comparison calculation (and no reason to start one), and thus (likely) decide to invest in M:tG or X-Wing stock instead.
If, what you say is true, it's laudable, but unlikely to register with people having to make the decision, unless they also have a personal strong commitment/interest in Mantic-stuff that makes them "follow stuff closely".
If a retailer looks at that KS and can't immediately tell that the existing product is being sold for much higher than the stock on their shelves, they probably shouldn't be running a small business. No fictional knowledge required.
Nope. I haven't been following this much lately. Should I, to make sense of this? Should a retailer? I doubt most store-owners have time to calculate things like this through, assuming your account of things is right.
They see the very same stuff the sales-guy is trying to get them to stock on the kickstarter page, likely without in-depth knowledge of the fictional background, the company-history or a detailed price-comparison calculation (and no reason to start one), and thus (likely) decide to invest in M:tG or X-Wing stock instead.
If, what you say is true, it's laudable, but unlikely to register with people having to make the decision, unless they also have a personal strong commitment/interest in Mantic-stuff that makes them "follow stuff closely".
If a retailer looks at that KS and can't immediately tell that the existing product is being sold for much higher than the stock on their shelves, they probably shouldn't be running a small business. No fictional knowledge required.
You're clutching at straws here.
I don't think so. The individually priced add-ons are at the very bottom of the page. Lots of the existing stuff is wrapped up in bundles and deals of the pledges (say, the existing Enforcer-stuff, which for the most isn't actually cheaper than store-stuff, now that I DID do the calculation (so the very claim this is intentionally overpriced is wrong anyhow). In addition, it's all in a wierd ex-Colonial currency ( ) .
I think you're over-estimating the time people running a small business would sink into this for what would only ever be a supplementary stock to carry. If a store-owner goes through all the effort for Mantic-stock kudos to them. 99% simply will not.
The GCPS heavy weapons guys are identical to the rest though. Just different arms. If they're replacing that line (did they ever actually confirm that?) Then using the existing HWTs would be... I dunno backwards?
Definitely curious to see what they come up with. I want some tanky battle drones lugging the heavier weapons. We talk about GCPS having combat robots, own up to it and include some!
.. then add some extras to finish. Striders look like a good buy, as do the jetbikes. Will probably grab a few GCPS rangers as well since I'm not too keen on the current ones.
Still sitting on my EB AW for now, just in case some other stuff gets added to it.
lord_blackfang wrote: To be honest, I haven't seen all that many aircraft with a flat roof.
How many aircraft have you seen made of flat planes and sharp angles?
As for the Ajax strider, I think the spear gun is awesome, but I'm really hoping to be able to arm one with a boomerang or slingshot by the time I reach the bridge level.
I've no problem with sharp angles. (F-117 Nighthawk)
The Dropship reminds me a little of the Bell AH-1 Cobra
Attack helicopter. I like the current model.
Mort wrote: I snagged one of the Tyrant pledges... but I am wondering if I shouldn't just switch to two TW pledges instead.
Sure, it's an extra $45, but that gets me extra dice, extra counters, and an extra set of books to loan out or sell. Or am I missing something?
Also an extra vehicle!
It's definitely worth another $45 if you want/need extras of those things, and Mantic said extra dice and counters would be a likely needed thing if you plan on using a lot of command/suppression.
I just couldn't get Tyrant to meet my needs, particularly since I only want a single vehicle of each type. I could get five vehicle battlegroups and have three of each, of course, but that would leave me with 10 vehicles I'd never use instead of the hard plastic troopers etc I actually want. Or leave the vehicles off and buy them singly, which leaves me with having to choose trooper battlegroups I don't need (have all the Veer-myn I need coming, all the FF I need, all the Asterian PVC troops). It also leaves me with having to add $30 vehicles onto an expensive base pledge of $425. If I'm spending $425 on a pledge and I can't work it to get the troops I want and one of each vehicle without spending more money, it isn't a deal for me.
Basically, I'm too well stocked from previous campaigns, and my needs are too modest for large vehicle battalions. So no Ultimate Tyrant for me this time around.
If the GCPS battlegroup looks good, then I'm sticking with Total Warfare. TW's a good value, and it's flexible enough for my needs, so I'm hoping the GCPS battlegroup will justify keeping it. If it's chock full of stuff I don't need, maybe I'll go back to a la carte.
I may not be representative of the average Warpath backer, but it's clear from the KS comments that there are a number of people in my position. I hope once the final vehicle is unlocked that they'll finally consider doing some sort of bundle deal on getting one of all six. (or five?) That would definitely get me to put more money on the table. At the moment I'm only planning to get three: one FF tank, one tunneler, and one of the dropships. (If they do a GCPS one, I'm hoping it's better than the Enforcer version. But Seamgate aside, I'm not leaving this KS campaign without some sort of dropship, dammit!)
TW is a good place to be. UT is great for some people too.
I'm set in at TW+shipping and unless I go *nuts* for the GCPS I will probably be staying close. Adding on stuff like you suggested. Maybe even a vehicle battlegroup (if I was gonna add two, it would be better to bump up to TWx2).
I feel like I'm closer to Vermonter but that's really only true for my Enforcers. My FF do have enough Infantry (probably?) but they could use a tad more and the only heavy weaponry I have is the mining laser thing from the faction starter, so I can definitely afford to go in on a BG and a tank group if I can scratch up that kinda cash. The basic 2 player set has me doing math though because with the added stuff it feels like it might be sitting at a sweet spot for what I am looking for.
I kinda wish that half the Enforcers in that starter set were the shotgun guys though.
Just noticed the plague hounds are in the plague BG.. that's bad news for DZ.. hate those things.. Are they part of the new 3rd gen sprue or did Mantic forget to add them to the contents for the BG?
With the Asterians, can the Kalyshi be built as either bows or fighting staff thingies? ..cause.. yeah, I don't like the bows.
The poses on the infantry seem to be loosened up a bit too, they looked really rigid in those first images.
On the Tunneler.. those new upgrades seem to be in the place that I thought the crew were supposed to disembark from. Does that mean it changes the tunneler into a weapon platform only with that option? I could see the gun being on a rail in the center as well and sliding back after firing so the rats in the sides can pile out but either way makes sense to me.
The 5 heavy weapons Enforcers image shows 4 missile launchers and something else.. anyone know what that is? Is it just a regular gun kinda like a Space Marine Dev Squad isn't all just heavies?
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GrimDork wrote: TW is a good place to be. UT is great for some people too.
I'm set in at TW+shipping and unless I go *nuts* for the GCPS I will probably be staying close. Adding on stuff like you suggested. Maybe even a vehicle battlegroup (if I was gonna add two, it would be better to bump up to TWx2).
Any word on what the shipping will be like for the options you've chosen? Another reason I'm hesitant to go big on this is I don't want to get hit with a $50 shipping bill. I have had more than a few "good deals" through KS turned around during PM shipping passes. HINT shipping was brutal.
I share your concerns about shipping. Maybe it's just because this kickstarter has so much old material in it, but I really don't get the impression that we're getting more stuff to compensate for paying shipping. That's one of my problems with vehicles at $30, because it seems likely you'll be able to pick them up discounted retail for just a little above that.
I'm far from boycotting, because I think even with shipping 20 for $20 deals are going to be hard to beat, and since the pledges have bulk discounts built in, I'm hoping those will be a good deal, too.
But here's the problem. On the one hand, they really do have to release a shipping estimate for Ultimate Tyrant before the campaign closes. If they don't, people will worry about it and some will drop their pledges. On the other hand, if they do put out the price and it turns out to be a very fair but expensive actual cost, you'll see some people reevaluating their UT pledges and dropping out. The higher the shipping charge, the more this will happen.
I'm not concerned for myself, as I'm pretty firmly decided on going Total Warfare, and I don't anticipate being put off by whatever the charge is on that. That's a particularly handy deal for me, as I'm not really interested in paying for the rulebooks, and the discount is so good that you effectively get those for free and you're still saving with the battlegroups (as long as you need them. Believe it or not, the ones I need are Enforcers and Plague, the two most people have way too much of.)
One thing that made Deadzone Infestation's Lockdown such a good deal was that they also locked down the shipping price, making sure that it wouldn't exceed what they charged for the standard "sweet spot" pledge below it. That removed my last reservation. If I were them, I'd consider doing the same with Ultimate Tyrant. This KS depends on those high-level pledges. You don't want to give people any reason to drop them on the final day.
Some hints of bigger things to come to get the pledge total rolling again, as it has stalled a bit the past two days:
"@ Mantic: In an ideal world we'd do hard plastic all the time, but we can't, so we do have to mix up the goals a bit. It'd make for a really dull end if we did all our tooling in the middle and end on the Ajax for example. We just have to careful to not over-stretch overselves, it's a marathon after all, not a sprint
However, that doesn't mean we can't kick off the week without some excitement, right? > "
So, I broke down, and made the ultimate "split the baby" decision: I backed this for $1, and I'm going to see how the pledge manager looks in a few months.
I'm happy to get digital only rules if it comes to that, but I'm looking forward to the Corporation Rangers, if they are even close to the artwork.
Here's hoping today's update is something substantive. Thus far, from a biased Deadzone player's point of view, the Deadzone Infestation Lockdown pledge was a much, much better value than what we've seen so far, with less than a fifth of the repetition of older product.
Caveat: If you want vehicles, are new to Mantic, want to work for Mantic, or want a lot more of what you already have to build armies for Warpath, ymmv. And I respect that going into this expecting a Deadzone-style deal is unrealistic, given this is a different kind of game. So please take my complaint with a huge grain of salt and my complements to the chef.
Still, my takeaway is that I'd rather see more Deadzone KS campaigns than Warpath ones in the future, if they decide to do any more kickstarters at all. Of necessity, there's just a whole lot more original product generated during Deadzone KSes.
Also, I regret that Mantic got stung doing so many resins and have had a hard time getting them all produced. Which is why, I take it, that all of their specialists etc. are metal this time around. Deadzone Infestation got you three kickstarter exclusive characters in resin. Not exclusive as in, a reposed version will be sold at retail later, but exclusive as in exclusive. In resin. Such a deal! I hope they get their resin production worked out for future kickstarter campaigns. I'm not exactly looking forward to bolting metal arms onto a PVC strider to make the Ajax. (And given the resin problem and Mantic's refusal to answer questions about the Ajax material on the comments - there's a pesky guy who's asked them repeatedly (not myself) - I think we can be pretty sure the Ajax arms will be metal.)
So Mantic has my sympathies for resin production problems, and they have my monetary support for the 20/$20 hard plastic deals. But I look forward to a future sci-fi campaign of some sort that's at least 85% new, with less metal parts, and more resin ones. Or heck, for Striders, go back to PVC. Or for a Project Pandora boardgame, use Dreadball Xtreme plastic and give us a load of cool characters and obscure races.
I expect the Ajax parts to be metal as well, which is a pity as it's a no go for me for parts like that. Mantic have to out source their resin production and it seems they have been unable to find a company that can do the amounts they need in the time frame they require. They tried out Prodos for KoW casting Blaine but even though the casts are good they couldn't meet the time frames needed (and that was just for a single figure) and they seem to still be searching so in the meantime metal seems to be the most likely as they can do that in house.
I'm not sure Ed has the capacity for that and I'd rather he finished up what he owes us first (which is down to his lack of sculpting time more than anything else). Trollforged is also under going changes with the Foundry being separated into it's own business backed by some industry partners who no doubt will have first call on the casting time. But anyway more a topic for the Trollforged thread.
Vermonter wrote: Here's hoping today's update is something substantive. Thus far, from a biased Deadzone player's point of view, the Deadzone Infestation Lockdown pledge was a much, much better value than what we've seen so far, with less than a fifth of the repetition of older product.
Agreed. The Enforcer booster was the only real stinker - a Strider and 5 Peacekeepers, IIRC? If you could swap boosters I'd have taken an extra ratmen artillery piece or plague abomination any day.
DaveC wrote: I expect the Ajax parts to be metal as well, which is a pity as it's a no go for me for parts like that.
Same. I'm really hoping they're in resin though, the new weapon arms and backpack for the Urban Pattern Iron Ancestor were in resin and they came up a treat. Likewise Strider arms are integral to the weapons, so to do new weapons they have to replace the entire arm - that's just too damn big for metal, not to mention a giant metal shield.
Yanked this out of the comments for people who were a bit iffy on the size of the vehicles
@ Remesis - vehicle size comparison coming this week. In short, the FF Sturnhammer is the slightly bigger than a Rhino, the interceptor is wide but 1" shorter than the Valyrie (though I'm trying to persuade the Studio to make that one inch.) Tunneler isn't sculpted yet, so we don't know.
30 GCPS Troopers.
2 tripod mounted Heavy Weapon Teams, which includes an additional 5-man plastic sprue and some metal parts to make the crew and an Engineer
1 Corporation Major-General figure
1 Strider (that can be built in Corporation, Enforcer, Plague or Rebs varieties)
And very quickly afterwards, a $15 Corporation Mule Transport
I've been waiting the whole campaign for the GCPS to get funded and seeing what their vehicle was going to look like. I was SUPER excited when I saw the mule, then lost that excitement very quickly when I saw it wasn't in hard plastic. I assumed (incorrectly it seems) that all the vehicles were in hard plastic and that was the point of this KS.
Oh well. I'm going to be patient and wait till the end, but I think I'm going to be dropping to 1$ until I can see some sculpts, etc.
There will be a hard plastic vehicle for the GCPS, most likely going to be a flyer called the TAD-56 Hornet.
It appears in the Plague army list.
With the Plague vehicles I probably won't get the custom plague-ified versions and will just use the GCPS ones, unless magnetizing between the two is an option, like it is with the striders (going to get at least 6 of those and go mag-happy to use the same models for 4 armies).
They're gearing up nicely for the Kickstarter endgame at this point, we will probably get plenty of extra things in the GCPS battlegroup, asterian and gcps vehicles, then special characters to finish.
I'll be happy to see all 6 factions nicely fleshed out, and will be getting them all.
Hmmm with the Mule being Resin and not part of a Battlegroup I no longer need the Ultimate Tyrant pledge as I was getting it for the 6 Battlegroups made up of each armies vehicle group but now I might only need 4 plus 2 Mule formations so Total Warfare plus extras is the way to go. I'll hold on before I change until the last day just in case a 3rd GCPS vehicle shows up but I hope that doesn't backfire on them.
GCPS has a MBT in the Alpha list, so even if it doesn't make it in, you can proxy one (plague too). From that alone FF shouldn't be the only tank out there.
That said, I could easily see Enforcers dropping in with a fusion gun and multi-melta...err.. fusion gunning the FF tanks for easy VPs or whatever.
The Asterian craft looks like it can be used like Eldar vehicles as well.. a hover tank of sorts (Falcon) or a transport.
scarletsquig wrote: Yep, $20 for 20 GCPS troops, $40 for 3 of the resin vehicles.
In other words, for $5 more you can skip all the old filler in the battlegroup and get 40 troopers + three mules instead.
So, for +$5 you gain 5 more HIPS troopers and 2 Mules, lose only 2 tripod weapons, a strider and a (presumably old) character model. Sounds good so far, yes. But I expect Mantic to sweeten the Battlegroup before the end.
scarletsquig wrote: Yep, $20 for 20 GCPS troops, $40 for 3 of the resin vehicles.
In other words, for $5 more you can skip all the old filler in the battlegroup and get 40 troopers + three mules instead.
So, for +$5 you gain 5 more HIPS troopers and 2 Mules, lose only 2 tripod weapons, a strider and a (presumably old) character model. Sounds good so far, yes. But I expect Mantic to sweeten the Battlegroup before the end.
With more than sprue upgrades you'll get anyway and maybe a single metal character? It'll take more than that to rope me back in.
I can see them adding Rangers as a sprue option, and hopefully special/ heavy weapons too.. hybrid metal isn't better than the restic that currently exists.
Wouldn't be surprised to see something like 50-60 GCPS in there by the time it's done rather than the current 35 + metal bits.
I love striders but that love has already played out into 6+1 from dzi. I was thinking 40+3 would be the way to go too. Leaves me wanting 4 battlegroup though which is an odd spot. Especially when I want a couple of individual vehicles. We'll see...
Looking at the best price ($1 per dude, $13.33 per strider or mule), you pay about $20 for the heavy weapons teams and character. The battlegroups are bundled at a deal in some pledge levels, so you do slightly better there.
One thing that bugs me is the GW-ness of having your force commander running around with a sword. In this kind of setting that really does not make much sense. I would more expect some kind of cool armor, a better gun, a protective drone, a pair of pistols.. something.. but.. a sword? It works for 40k because in that universe stabbing tanks with combat knives makes sense..whatever. For the real world though, I just don't envision leaders standing around waiting to hack stuff up with a freaking saber.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That said..
Thanks for doing the math folks.
At this level, I'm in for 3x Mules and a box of 20 sci-fi humans I probably don't need (definitely).
lord_blackfang wrote: To be honest, I haven't seen all that many aircraft with a flat roof.
I don't know if picking that one thing out of the aerodynamic look of the dropship is the best path to take that argument down. My only objection is that the line down the entirety of the middle of the thing makes it look like a cheap toy. If it was only on part of it, then fine.
I've seen a couple of people mention that they feel 2x Total Warfare breaks down as "better" than Ultimate Tyrant - what's the breakdown on that and why?
Azazelx wrote: I've seen a couple of people mention that they feel 2x Total Warfare breaks down as "better" than Ultimate Tyrant - what's the breakdown on that and why?
You get an extra vehicle ($30 value) and another set of books, counters, etc ($50). It makes it easier if you are splitting with a friend or have rules to get another friend playing too. For $45 you get another vehicle, books, etc. Sure you could go Ultimate Tyrant and add a vehicle for $30 more instead, but $15 technically for what is the $50 pledge isn't a bad deal either.
MLaw wrote: One thing that bugs me is the GW-ness of having your force commander running around with a sword. In this kind of setting that really does not make much sense. I would more expect some kind of cool armor, a better gun, a protective drone, a pair of pistols.. something.. but.. a sword? It works for 40k because in that universe stabbing tanks with combat knives makes sense..whatever. For the real world though, I just don't envision leaders standing around waiting to hack stuff up with a freaking saber.
He was made in the previous generation, when they were trying to boost sales by maximising their compatibility with 40k, hence the Corp troops hitting all the same generic notes the GW Cadians touched on. Thought they might go for a new sculpt, but I guess not.
lol, that picture ...ugh.. I think I'll just use a character from Sedition Wars or .. lol anything else. That's definitely not their best work.
Gotta say though, as much as I was all like "bah, more sci-fi humans" I'm in for a bit of them.. when I thought for sure FF were going to be the silver bullet that got me in.
scarletsquig wrote: I can see them adding Rangers as a sprue option, and hopefully special/ heavy weapons too.. hybrid metal isn't better than the restic that currently exists.
Wouldn't be surprised to see something like 50-60 GCPS in there by the time it's done rather than the current 35 + metal bits.
They'll have 35 GCPS soon. The metal bits will add another 5 man sprue. If they go to 50-60, I'm in for the battlegroup. Otherwise, I'll probably just get 3 bikes and five more troopers instead of the leftovers.
It may only be 17 dollars for the rest of the battlegroup, but if i don't want the rest, why should I waste 17 dollars? I wouldn't if I were ordering from a store or buying at a shop.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like today's exciting GCPS announcement was enough to stop a retreat, but not enough to carry us very far forward. Pretty low income.
I think they're too hampered by returning fans who already have stuff and don't want more of it. That, and the pledge deals really don't compare to what Infestation offered. Nice hardcover, lots of exclusive resins, it had new hard plastic troops too, metal one-off characters, locked-in shipping price, new terrain, new battlemat, very little recycled old stock, all of the above for $215 . . .
It looks like they really don't want to be boxed into doing Mars Attacks / Lockdown again by improving their deal. But if they don't, it's not currently looking like they're going to get to launch all the products they want to. The last day spike isn't guaranteed in Mantic Kickstarter campaigns anymore: Dreadball Xtreme ran into a brick wall and Mantic stood their ground, and while overall the KS was a success, that tactic cost them a lot of money on the final day. If Ultimate Tyrants start deciding their deal isn't what they'd hoped it would be, we could get another backslide.
I really think they need to unveil the 2-for-$30 HIPS vehicle deal I'm sure they've got waiting in the wings. That pricepoint just strikes me as oddly high otherwise, especially when compared to the 20-for-$20 infantry deals. It reminds me a lot of the initial $10-each price for jetbikes for the DZ:I kickstarter, and I think the sooner they show us the "real" pricepoint for the vehicles, the better for the campaign.
Ideally, they'll unleash that deal ASAP, hopefully later today, since I think once the GCPS get funded we'll see another surge in funding. Right now, though, we're 22K away from it, and the immediate stretch goal isn't lighting the fire I think they thought it would to bump up to GCPS being funded (I would guess due to the vagueness in material for the Ajax upgrade)
darkPrince010 wrote: I really think they need to unveil the 2-for-$30 HIPS vehicle deal I'm sure they've got waiting in the wings. That pricepoint just strikes me as oddly high otherwise, especially when compared to the 20-for-$20 infantry deals. It reminds me a lot of the initial $10-each price for jetbikes for the DZ:I kickstarter, and I think the sooner they show us the "real" pricepoint for the vehicles, the better for the campaign.
Ideally, they'll unleash that deal ASAP, hopefully later today, since I think once the GCPS get funded we'll see another surge in funding. Right now, though, we're 22K away from it, and the immediate stretch goal isn't lighting the fire I think they thought it would to bump up to GCPS being funded (I would guess due to the vagueness in material for the Ajax upgrade)
I'm not as sure that they have that waiting in the wings, but it sure would sell this KS campaign. I know some here will argue that $30 is a fine price for the vehicles, and 3 of only the same ones for $75 is quite the deal. I also think it's fairly obvious that $500,000 to $1,000,000 worth of absent backers don't agree and won't be showing up anytime soon.
Don't forget, with shipping it will be $30+ per vehicle anyway. That should get you pretty close to discounted retail value.
As for the Ajax, I think it proves that you can shift to hybrid metals if it's more convenient, but don't expect the same level of interest or purchases. For a sizable percentage of backers, that thing with metal arms is a swing and a miss.
darkPrince010 wrote: I really think they need to unveil the 2-for-$30 HIPS vehicle deal I'm sure they've got waiting in the wings. That pricepoint just strikes me as oddly high otherwise, especially when compared to the 20-for-$20 infantry deals. It reminds me a lot of the initial $10-each price for jetbikes for the DZ:I kickstarter, and I think the sooner they show us the "real" pricepoint for the vehicles, the better for the campaign.
Ideally, they'll unleash that deal ASAP, hopefully later today, since I think once the GCPS get funded we'll see another surge in funding. Right now, though, we're 22K away from it, and the immediate stretch goal isn't lighting the fire I think they thought it would to bump up to GCPS being funded (I would guess due to the vagueness in material for the Ajax upgrade)
I'm not as sure that they have that waiting in the wings, but it sure would sell this KS campaign. I know some here will argue that $30 is a fine price for the vehicles, and 3 of only the same ones for $75 is quite the deal. I also think it's fairly obvious that $500,000 to $1,000,000 worth of absent backers don't agree and won't be showing up anytime soon.
Don't forget, with shipping it will be $30+ per vehicle anyway. That should get you pretty close to discounted retail value.
As for the Ajax, I think it proves that you can shift to hybrid metals if it's more convenient, but don't expect the same level of interest or purchases. For a sizable percentage of backers, that thing with metal arms is a swing and a miss.
I like the Striders because they remind me of the APUs from Avatar. I don't like the AJAX because it reminds me of Warmachine but with an egg.. hmm.. Eggmachine. It's the same thing with the space elves.. I don't like the ones with bows. I don't know why but there's just some things in sci-fi that seem weird to me.
Also, apparently Marauders are going to be part of the GCPS list. That actually makes sense, since in this setting the Orx achieved spaceflight by being hired and trained by humans as troops.
TheWaspinator wrote: Also, apparently Marauders are going to be part of the GCPS list. That actually makes sense, since in this setting the Orx achieved spaceflight by being hired and trained by humans as troops.
On BOW they were said to be a merchant class.. it was implied that they would be basically for hire. I'd be a bit bummed if they were exclusive to Corp :/
This might sound crazy, but I wonder if they made Total Warfare too good of a deal. Mantic Kickstarters have a strong reputation for being something these days to put a dollar into and sort out in the pledge manager. The Early Birds and "limited, can't upgrade to in the pledge manager" tyrants encourage people to put in money now, but if many are finding the not limited Total Warfare level to be best for them then the best bet is to just pledge a dollar now and upgrade to Total Warfare later. I know I've got a tyrant right now that would be a dollar pledge upgrading to double Total Warfare in the PM if this ended today, so if I'm not alone the backslide possibility is certainly there.
I like the Striders because they remind me of the APUs from Avatar. I don't like the AJAX because it reminds me of Warmachine but with an egg.. hmm.. Eggmachine. It's the same thing with the space elves.. I don't like the ones with bows. I don't know why but there's just some things in sci-fi that seem weird to me.
The ones with the bows are incredibly silly-looking. The rest of the faction looks -great-... but those bow-dudes.... UGH. I'd probably go nuts with them if not for those guys - maybe I still will, and just pawn those off.
And while I sure wouldn't mind seeing vehicle deals at 3 for 60 or 50 or whatever, I am one of those guys who thinks 3 for $75 is still pretty good, especially because I like many of them.
Crossing my fingers there are some more 'good deals' from Mantic on this one as it winds down - I am prepared to toss more money at them, but it's gotta be -good-.
TheWaspinator wrote: Also, apparently Marauders are going to be part of the GCPS list. That actually makes sense, since in this setting the Orx achieved spaceflight by being hired and trained by humans as troops.
On BOW they were said to be a merchant class.. it was implied that they would be basically for hire. I'd be a bit bummed if they were exclusive to Corp :/
That might be true. This is what the KS says:
The GCPS force list also includes Marauder Auxiliaries such as Commandos, Ripper Suits, Goran Stalkers and the Stunt-Bot, making it an incredibly interesting and varied force on the tabletop.
That doesn't rule out the possibility that they will be allowed as allies to other armies, it just says they're part of the GCPS list. As of right now, I don't think we know how allies are going to work in this edition. It's possible that they will be available as mercenaries to multiple armies, subject to whatever limitations allies have, but that GCPS armies can take them natively without them suffering ally limitations.
MLaw wrote: One thing that bugs me is the GW-ness of having your force commander running around with a sword. In this kind of setting that really does not make much sense. I would more expect some kind of cool armor, a better gun, a protective drone, a pair of pistols.. something.. but.. a sword? It works for 40k because in that universe stabbing tanks with combat knives makes sense..whatever. For the real world though, I just don't envision leaders standing around waiting to hack stuff up with a freaking saber.
Mort wrote: And while I sure wouldn't mind seeing vehicle deals at 3 for 60 or 50 or whatever, I am one of those guys who thinks 3 for $75 is still pretty good, especially because I like many of them.
I wish there were more people like you. Go out and get your buddies to pitch in!
But honestly, 3 for $75 isn't very good if you don't want three of the same thing. That's the problem. And from the comments, it seems that a number of people would be happy to buy more vehicles if there could be an assorted bundle like a deal on getting one of all five, or get any combination of three for $75. If you really want just one Forge Father tank, you're not going to crack and decide to buy three for $45 more just because of the price structure. You'll either buy it at $30+ shipping, or figure that since that's likely not much different from retail, wait and see how they turn out and pick it up later, probably for around the same price but with no risk.
Personally I don't buy this line that picking and choosing vehicles makes shipping too complicated. It's no more complicated than putting an individually ordered hacker half-tail in this guy's box, and 80 extra plague 3rd gens in that guy's box, because both guys got the same pledge level but added on different things. My order is already going to cause someone a headache with all the random add-ons that will be in it.
MLaw wrote: One thing that bugs me is the GW-ness of having your force commander running around with a sword. In this kind of setting that really does not make much sense. I would more expect some kind of cool armor, a better gun, a protective drone, a pair of pistols.. something.. but.. a sword? It works for 40k because in that universe stabbing tanks with combat knives makes sense..whatever. For the real world though, I just don't envision leaders standing around waiting to hack stuff up with a freaking saber.
IIRC that kit comes with multiple arm options.
Yeah I saw the boxing glove.. fist..thingy The sculpt in general is from their early weak stuff. That guy's legs are super thin and the head is huge.. it's just not a good sculpt in general and the weapon options are the last little bit to put me off. Unless they spruce up that BG I'll be going for 2 of the 20 troop deals and 3x Mules.
Yeah, he has the pistol all the time but he gets the commissar/guardsman style energy cutlass, or the energy fist. Which.. well... it's still a melee weapon but at least it's not a sword? I mean, sure he's the commander but what about assassins? Plus, when he points with it... people will damn well know which way they should be going.
I hope the let us know who will be making the mules. I mean their resin so far has turned out well. As long as they stay resin. I hope they don't get huge demand on them and decide restic is more efficient, because then they should have made it a proper sized stretch goal and hard plastic-ed them. For reals. Kind of baffled as to why they didn't.
The concept for the GCPS are for the rangers so the basic troops shouldn't end up looking like the concept. Would be nice to see concept for the basic troops plus renders.
But honestly, 3 for $75 isn't very good if you don't want three of the same thing. That's the problem. And from the comments, it seems that a number of people would be happy to buy more vehicles if there could be an assorted bundle like a deal on getting one of all five, or get any combination of three for $75. If you really want just one Forge Father tank, you're not going to crack and decide to buy three for $45 more just because of the price structure. You'll either buy it at $30+ shipping, or figure that since that's likely not much different from retail, wait and see how they turn out and pick it up later, probably for around the same price but with no risk.
This is basically my problem. I'm not in love with anything enough to get 3 of a kind, except probably the FF tanks, but at the same time I'm not loving the vehicles enough to pay $30 for a single tunneller/dropship/tank. A one-of-everything vehicle bundle would be fantastic, and I'd definitely pick up one if they were to offer it.
A vehicle variety bundle might get me to add more. If not now, certainly later.
I don't want 3 of the same thing. I doubt I'll ever convince anyone I know to play in something of that scale (especially since we won't play unless it's painted).
I'm still unsure about the resin. My dino Blaine is now at the point where his dino is lurching towards the ground, leaning on its paws. Maybe its just the sculpt being too top heavy that's caused it to bend like that? Not sure.
Gonna need to see more concept/ renders for the basic GCPS grunts though.
overtyrant wrote: The concept for the GCPS are for the rangers so the basic troops shouldn't end up looking like the concept. Would be nice to see concept for the basic troops plus renders.
I agree. I love the concept art for the GCPS, but I need to see renders before I add money for them.
overtyrant wrote: The concept for the GCPS are for the rangers so the basic troops shouldn't end up looking like the concept. Would be nice to see concept for the basic troops plus renders.
I agree. I love the concept art for the GCPS, but I need to see renders before I add money for them.
Like the sculpts will look anything like the concepts.. sculpts are what you want to see my friend
Why is the Mule's tray at an angle? Why is the door either tiny or eight feet off the ground? Why is the front half and only the front half stupidly over-engineered if it's just a glorified technical?
TheWaspinator wrote: As of right now, I don't think we know how allies are going to work in this edition.
I don't think anyone has thought about that yet, but I was playing around with a Rebs list at the weekend, so I'll be posting in the RC forum to try and address that today
I like the Striders because they remind me of the APUs from Avatar. I don't like the AJAX because it reminds me of Warmachine but with an egg.. hmm.. Eggmachine. It's the same thing with the space elves.. I don't like the ones with bows. I don't know why but there's just some things in sci-fi that seem weird to me.
The ones with the bows are incredibly silly-looking. The rest of the faction looks -great-... but those bow-dudes.... UGH. I'd probably go nuts with them if not for those guys - maybe I still will, and just pawn those off.
I picture the bows as some sort of badass Hunger Games style sci-fi/ fantasy blend. Plus, there are certain advantages to the trajectory of an arrow vs. a bullet that a really good archer could make use of, with airburst or explosive tips.
I picture the bows as some sort of badass Hunger Games style sci-fi/ fantasy blend. Plus, there are certain advantages to the trajectory of an arrow vs. a bullet that a really good archer could make use of, with airburst or explosive tips.
In hunger games, the bow wasn't chosen because it was bad ass, it was chosen because the typical folks did not have access to firearms.
As for trajectory advantages, I guess that is why every army today has at least 2-3 bow equipped guys per infantry squad. Sorry, your 'airburst' and 'explosive tips' are fulfilled by the modern day grenade launcher.
You heard it here first (or perhaps on the KS comments), ladies and gentlemen: The GCPS now comes with 9, count 'em, 9 sprues of troopers. Not 8 sprues. Not 40 troopers.
9 sprues, 45 troopers.
Because it's 40 troopers + an additional 5-man sprue of troopers for the heavy weapons team. As clarified by Mantic:
@ Vermonter - 30 Troopers goes to 40 Troopers. Plus there's a 5-man sprue used for the crew of the Heavy Weapons, which wasn't included in the original count of 30. So 9 spurs total.
As long as they meant "sprues," of course. Otherwise you're getting some extra riding gear.
So 45 sprues + 1 mule = I'm now taking this battle group a little more seriously. Still not sure if I wouldn't rather have 2 more mules for an extra $5, but we'll see.
I'll be swimming in striders if I do get the battlegroup. We need more alternate weapon loadouts for them than the base options and the Ajax upgrade.
Actually heard it in the GCPS update first, because it said the heavy weapons come with an additional sprue of 5 troopers to make the crew and an engineer, and then they added 10 extra guys in the latest update.
Alex C wrote: Actually heard it in the GCPS update first, because it said the heavy weapons come with an additional sprue of 5 troopers to make the crew and an engineer, and then they added 10 extra guys in the latest update.
Well yeah, ok, you got me there. I just asked them for clarification to be sure.
I guess if I got the deal and went to 9 striders I could probably just glue them together instead of bothering to magnetize... Resin mules for $13.33 though...... Need many. Plague will love them and so will troopers so they can shoot w/O hoofin it.
I quite like bows on the Asterians. They're "tech so advanced it's indistinguishable from magic" tier, so it doesn't really matter if they look like bows.
Being bothered by them because they're anachronistic is about the same as a person from 200 years ago being bothered by a car because it mostly looks like a carriage.
In hunger games, the bow wasn't chosen because it was bad ass, it was chosen because the typical folks did not have access to firearms.
In the third book the tech wizard guy and the engineers in district 13 make her up a fancy composite bow with hi tech stuff in it like voice commands, range finders, special arrows, etc as a way of giving her sufficient firepower while retaining the well known propaganda image of her with bow and arrow.
GrimDork wrote: I guess if I got the deal and went to 9 striders I could probably just glue them together instead of bothering to magnetize... Resin mules for $13.33 though...... Need many. Plague will love them and so will troopers so they can shoot w/O hoofin it.
Yeah, on reviewing everything, I think I'll stick with two extra mules + 40 troopers for $5 more than the battlegroup. I don't need more striders, and the weapons team is nice, but probably not much compared to the mules. The metal commander is a poor old sculpt. If they added 20 more troopers I might change my mind, but they won't.
Truthfully I think we've got "stick it out" Mantic firmly in control at this point, with "wheel and deal" Mantic imprisoned in the back seat. From their comments, I don't expect any fundamental changes to deals, and I don't expect anything significant to be added to any pledge levels either (just to battlegroups), at least until the final 48, and perhaps not even then.
I think that's a big mistake. Particularly when it comes to locking in the pledges that matter most because they have to be paid up front, the ones that have driven much of campaign's recent gains: Ultimate Tyrant.
I won't be getting Ultimate Tyrant regardless, but Mantic need to put something in it to stop people from jumping off it en masse for other options on the last day. Because a fair number of those people are currently backing it speculatively, and if they aren't given a good reason to stay, they will jump off and just pledge $1, as all other equivalent options will remain open on the pledge manager.
That means that unless they shore up Tyrant with something that 2x TW won't get you, Mantic are setting themselves up for a last-day Tyrant jumping backslide.
I'm planning on tuning out of all this for a few days to let some significant things actually happen on the KS without all the grinding waiting much ado about nothing. So let me pre-emptively say that if you're backing at Tyrant and think people will stay simply because of the deal it already is, good for you. I hope you are right and will be pleased to be wrong, because I really hate it when these campaigns implode at the end.
You know what I'd really like to see? I'd like to see Deadzone 1 happen again. I'd really like to see a Mantic sci-fi campaign like Deadzone, or even Dreadball, that rakes in a ton of money and stretch goals without feeling like it's treading on eggshells the entire time, or sucking dubious life support from a too-small backer base by getting them to speculate on ultra-high pledges like Frenzy or Tyrant, risking an endgame collapse when too many pull out. I'd like to see a sci-fi Mantic campaign where such tactics aren't necessary because the deals, promotion, and the game itself are raking in truckloads of new pledgers. Maybe that means I'm waiting for a Project Pandora / Dungeon Saga boardgame?
There's not a whole lot of GCPS to really have an impact. That's the faction I was waiting on and it was a total disappointment. We have a picture of a guy and a picture of a resin vehicle.
I totally get that the point of KS is to fund new things, but two pictures just isn't anything to get excited about, much less make any kind of impact.
squall018 wrote: There's not a whole lot of GCPS to really have an impact. That's the faction I was waiting on and it was a total disappointment. We have a picture of a guy and a picture of a resin vehicle.
I totally get that the point of KS is to fund new things, but two pictures just isn't anything to get excited about, much less make any kind of impact.
Yeah, the sketch is cool. Seeing how it translates to a sprue of 5 troopers in plastic, and how much of that detail stays or disappears and what the poses look like could get me to pledge. I'm not spending money on a Mantic sketch though.
Worth remembering as well that GCPS isn't actually funded yet and while some people will pledge in advance a lot more take a wait and see approach and only go in once funded or in the last day when it's clear what's available.
It has stalled a bit much of yesterday was in negative territory until the GCPS update. I agree with Vermonter about Ultimate Tyrant I think it could see an exodus in the last 48 hours I know I'll probably drop mine back to Total Warfare and cut the funds as well as I'll hold off on the GCPS stuff until the PM when hopefully there will be renders available. Ultimate Tyrant just doesn't really have enough going for it to justify putting in $425 now when you can put in half now and then half later for 2xTW
Truthfully I think we've got "stick it out" Mantic firmly in control at this point, with "wheel and deal" Mantic imprisoned in the back seat. From their comments, I don't expect any fundamental changes to deals, and I don't expect anything significant to be added to any pledge levels either (just to battlegroups), at least until the final 48, and perhaps not even then.
You pick and choose which Battlegroup you want as part of the pledge level therefore improving the Battlegroups does improve the pledge level.
I think there are some incredible deals there. The Ultimate Tyrant and Total Warfare are both fantastic, aren't they? 3 GW sized vehicles for $75, 20 infantry for $20, 10 freaking jetbikes for $40.
What more do you want?!
You know what I'd really like to see? I'd like to see Deadzone 1 happen again. I'd really like to see a Mantic sci-fi campaign like Deadzone, or even Dreadball, that rakes in a ton of money and stretch goals
Maybe in your future-land down-under, but Mantic still have over 9 hours to go, and I doubt they'll put the add on's up at midnight, so likely another 24 hours to go...
GrimDork wrote: I guess if I got the deal and went to 9 striders I could probably just glue them together instead of bothering to magnetize... Resin mules for $13.33 though...... Need many. Plague will love them and so will troopers so they can shoot w/O hoofin it.
Yeah, on reviewing everything, I think I'll stick with two extra mules + 40 troopers for $5 more than the battlegroup. I don't need more striders, and the weapons team is nice, but probably not much compared to the mules. The metal commander is a poor old sculpt. If they added 20 more troopers I might change my mind, but they won't.
With 35 guys ($35 at best deal), metal bits for heavy weapon teams, 2 striders (best deal $13.33 each), a mule (best deal $13.33 each) and a character, you're paying $10 for heavy weapon bits and a character. Comes down to what you need (if you don't want more striders, it's not worthwhile, but several of the battlegroups are like that), but it seems like a very solid deal to me.
squall018 wrote: There's not a whole lot of GCPS to really have an impact. That's the faction I was waiting on and it was a total disappointment. We have a picture of a guy and a picture of a resin vehicle.
I totally get that the point of KS is to fund new things, but two pictures just isn't anything to get excited about, much less make any kind of impact.
Yeah, the sketch is cool. Seeing how it translates to a sprue of 5 troopers in plastic, and how much of that detail stays or disappears and what the poses look like could get me to pledge. I'm not spending money on a Mantic sketch though.
This. Well, both of these, actually.
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Kirasu wrote: It's very tempting to just replace all my Cadians with GCPS as their scale looks much more realistic when compared to space marines and such.
Can't really see anything regarding their scale or proportions. A sketch doesn't mean much, and we don't even have a clue how the buggy will scale to the troopers yet.
Maybe in your future-land down-under, but Mantic still have over 9 hours to go, and I doubt they'll put the add on's up at midnight, so likely another 24 hours to go...
Just realised my computer says Wednesday because it's 10 past midnight. I lose track of the days so easily
You know what I'd really like to see? I'd like to see Deadzone 1 happen again. I'd really like to see a Mantic sci-fi campaign like Deadzone, or even Dreadball, that rakes in a ton of money and stretch goals
Didn't they both lose the company money?
And everyone loved all of the miniatures and the pvc material from Deadzone 1
right guys
NTRabbit wrote: Also, GCPS troops are going to have gender neutral torsos, and come with heads for men and women on the sprue, confirmed in the comments.
There's no such thing, and Mantic's failure to understand this is why the Pathfinders look like arse. At least if this was another all-male kit it wouldn't actively hurt the chances of getting a competently designed female kit in the future.
NTRabbit wrote: Also, GCPS troops are going to have gender neutral torsos, and come with heads for men and women on the sprue, confirmed in the comments.
There's no such thing, and Mantic's failure to understand this is why the Pathfinders look like arse. At least if this was another all-male kit it wouldn't actively hurt the chances of getting a competently designed female kit in the future.
Odd viewpoint considering there are specific female torsos on the Pathfinders sprue.
But they are right for bucking their own trend and making a neutral torso, as females in body armor look like males in body armor, no matter how much people want armored breast cones and 12 inch heels and electro whips.
edit: instead of this weird desire to have giant exaggerated hips/boobs on miniatures wearing bulky body armor, how about someone finally actually make models with different heights? So far the Terminator resistance fighters are the only plastic kit that exists that have models of various heights on the sprue.
NTRabbit wrote: Also, GCPS troops are going to have gender neutral torsos, and come with heads for men and women on the sprue, confirmed in the comments.
There's no such thing, and Mantic's failure to understand this is why the Pathfinders look like arse. At least if this was another all-male kit it wouldn't actively hurt the chances of getting a competently designed female kit in the future.
Human torsos in regular flak jacket style body armour from neck to groin. Try doing a google search, even with the new body armour the US army is using designed specifically to fit women, from the outside the torso is still straight up and down solid. Not everything needs to be cheesecake and jiggly tits.
Here's a few images, please tell me how these real life women soldiers, in body armour, with no apparent bust or hips, look like arse and need to be resculpted
I'd like them to go gender neutral, but have one or two of the minis on the sprue be shorter than the rest as that is one decent way of spotting women in todays military, they do tend to be shorter on average than the men
(they'd also be fine for shorter men too)
but I can't see it being a popular choice so it's not going to happen
We also have no idea of who would be dealing with the resin production of the Mule. We assume not Prodos because of the delays we saw with Blaine from KOW 2.
I have zero knowledge about computerised miniature production, how long would a GCPS soldier render take to make?
NTRabbit wrote: Also, GCPS troops are going to have gender neutral torsos, and come with heads for men and women on the sprue, confirmed in the comments.
There's no such thing, and Mantic's failure to understand this is why the Pathfinders look like arse. At least if this was another all-male kit it wouldn't actively hurt the chances of getting a competently designed female kit in the future.
Human torsos in regular flak jacket style body armour from neck to groin. Try doing a google search, even with the new body armour the US army is using designed specifically to fit women, from the outside the torso is still straight up and down solid. Not everything needs to be cheesecake and jiggly tits.
I wonder why, with that hi-tech helmet, they need 'female' and 'male' heads. If they're in combat, that helmet, coupled with the body armor, is going to hide the sex of the trooper pretty well.
And another picture proving your point (my wife on a little trip overseas a couple of years ago):
The guy they used for the Plague Zombies could do a single 28mm sculpt digitally in 2 days (he worked for Impact! as well that's how I know that) so a 5 miniature multipart kit requires more work obviously but you will be using parts already sculpted your probably looking at no more than 2 weeks work. Not sure who's doing the current digital stuff as they have an in house digital sculptor now.
MLaw wrote: One thing that bugs me is the GW-ness of having your force commander running around with a sword.
It's an old model back from when the only reason they existed was as a cheap IG substitute.
MLaw wrote:I like the Striders because they remind me of the APUs from Avatar. I don't like the AJAX because it reminds me of Warmachine but with an egg.. hmm.. Eggmachine. It's the same thing with the space elves.. I don't like the ones with bows. I don't know why but there's just some things in sci-fi that seem weird to me.
Aye, that! If the commander with a sword is only a throwback to 40K-styled 'old' Warpath, it's a bit odd that they're now doubling down with spears, shields, bows, chainsaws and whatnot.
CptJake wrote:
In hunger games, the bow wasn't chosen because it was bad ass, it was chosen because the typical folks did not have access to firearms.
As for trajectory advantages, I guess that is why every army today has at least 2-3 bow equipped guys per infantry squad. Sorry, your 'airburst' and 'explosive tips' are fulfilled by the modern day grenade launcher.
Exalt.
lord_blackfang wrote:I quite like bows on the Asterians. They're "tech so advanced it's indistinguishable from magic" tier, so it doesn't really matter if they look like bows.
Being bothered by them because they're anachronistic is about the same as a person from 200 years ago being bothered by a car because it mostly looks like a carriage.
Any indication that they're 'tech so advanced', though? Not that the distinction matters too much. They're still armed with things that look like bows. They are armed with bows. We've got this business that is apparently trying to distance itself from the 40K 'fantasy in spaaace' bit, but it seems more in word (of forum defenders, at least... or at most) than deed, when someone at Mantic HQ is whipped up into such a fervour of inertia and unoriginality that the best they can come up with is elves in spaaace with bows in spaaace. 'Cos elves have bows, yeah? Everybody does elves with bows. Everyone knows you gotta have a side of bow with your elf. That's what makes them recognisable as elves, same way orcs gotta have bucket jaws and underbites, and women gotta have chainmail bikinis and boob windows. Even when you put them in a futuristic space war they gotta have bows. Hurrr.
Shuriken catapults are a stroke of genius in comparison. And those are what, a thirty year old idea? Give or take?
And the carriage-to-car comparison is a bit false. A better one might be the transition from horse-drawn vehicles to steam to the internal combustion engine. Our old friend the wheel is still grand, the basic principle is recognisable, it's that the purely biological power and exertion has been replaced with a lot of technological developments. You might say the same about firearms from crossbows to arquebusses to semi automatic rifles. With these space elves and their space bows, it's the throwback to something even earlier and less efficient that's the consternation. The space bows might be firing energy bolts or something (which is nothing like fantasyat all, right?) but they're still dependent on the space elves holding the whole thing out at arm's length to aim and fire, and using a wide motion of their other arm to draw... something back between the limbs.
A different comparison might be someone from two hundred years ago wondering why we developed the internal combustion engine to propel our vehicles, then decided to get rid of wheels and go back to the good old drag-along-the-ground sled.
I like the look of the corp guys way more than the enforcers. I may have to get some of those Mules too. They're probably the only faction where I like everything, the others have bits and pieces of coolness mixed with meh.
Asterians have cloaked planetkiller ships littered throughout the galaxy. They have man-portable fission and dark matter weaponry. I don't see why it would be a problem for them to pack a highly advanced form of weapon into the shape of a bow and arrow simple because they like the shape. You know, just like 300 years from now, human nerds will glue cogs and brass pipes all over their laser rifles, right?
I wonder why, with that hi-tech helmet, they need 'female' and 'male' heads. If they're in combat, that helmet, coupled with the body armor, is going to hide the sex of the trooper pretty well.
And another picture proving your point (my wife on a little trip overseas a couple of years ago):
Spoiler:
The current restic Rangers have fully enclosed helmets, so you wouldn't see either way, but the Marines have open face helmets, so could be done noticeably but not over the top. Depends how many kinds of troops they want to make from the one sprue, how the Rangers are going to visually differ, and how many heads they can fit on it really.
@DaveC :Thanks for the info. So there is a possibility that we may not see GCPS troop renders, that may further hurt the momentum of this one. Ultimately I think the $350,000 and $365,000 goals will be met quite easily.
The funding of so many factions is pretty cool, but we also see people to backing on a faction specific basis. It is their money after all. The last update dealt with GCPS and a bit of Plague, so Asterian, Enforcer, Veermyn and FF fans all hold off. You also have a lot of "No Marauders? I will pull my pledge" brigade, even though Mantic has been clear that they will not be dealt with unless this hit a stupid total.
So, Lord Blackfang, you are suggesting the Asterians are throwing their equivalent of otaku into the jaws of battle while the rest of their soldiers remote pilot drones?
lord_blackfang wrote: Asterians have cloaked planetkiller ships littered throughout the galaxy. They have man-portable fission and dark matter weaponry. I don't see why it would be a problem for them to pack a highly advanced form of weapon into the shape of a bow and arrow simple because they like the shape. You know, just like 300 years from now, human nerds will glue cogs and brass pipes all over their laser rifles, right?
The problem is, Bows are massive. Liking the shape enough to give yourself a disadvantage? Come on.. Combining that with the inefficiency of having to draw back your ammunition.. of which, you are only able to carry like 30... unless it's magic space faerie arrows that appear notched in the bow like in that old Dungeons and Dragons cartoon.. Trying to argue that there are scientific reasons for them to use bows is like trying to argue that there are scientific advantages to having faces on your tanks and aircraft or ears on your robots (or boobs on your armor). Mantic has made a campy "spaaaace elves" decision and I think it's really as simple as that. I personally dislike them..
I'm half wondering if we're going to see vehicle commander torsos with swords to play out the old "Drive me closer" meme.
Well, the bow and glaive thing is done more for cultural reasons rather than battlefield effectiveness.
If the Kalyshi wanted to be efficient, they wouldn't be on the battlefield at all, they'd be piloting cyphers and drones from orbit like the rest of the Asterians, the unit wouldn't even exist.
Overall, the Asterians work quite well in terms of background, I really like the fact that they are advanced enough to almost 100% make use of robotic constructs rather than putting their own lives on the line.. with the Kalyshi being the exception that do it more for religious/ cultural reasons rather than any real need to.
Makes a bit more sense than swarms of critically-endangered, thousands-of-years-old 40k Eldar housewives, gardeners and poets carrying peashooter guns and tinfoil armour dying in droves because they're too angsty to put their dead grandpa in a (massively well armed and armoured) ghost bot.
^ Probably. I'm personally thinking of converting the Dreadball figures with some melee weapons (basilean men-at-arms spears) and counting the dreadball glove as a wrist-mounted energy weapon.
The sculpts are better than the renders for the metal ones and the thongs just don't look quite as good on the ripped abs dudes. Dark Eldar Wych mankinis all over again.
Also, they're plastic and I already have 16 of them that I wasn't doing anything with. Will use the metals in the battlegroup as team leaders to get a unit of 20.
lord_blackfang wrote:Asterians have cloaked planetkiller ships littered throughout the galaxy. They have man-portable fission and dark matter weaponry. I don't see why it would be a problem for them to pack a highly advanced form of weapon into the shape of a bow and arrow simple because they like the shape. You know, just like 300 years from now, human nerds will glue cogs and brass pipes all over their laser rifles, right?
I'll just quote my edit here.
Vermis wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:I quite like bows on the Asterians. They're "tech so advanced it's indistinguishable from magic" tier, so it doesn't really matter if they look like bows.
Being bothered by them because they're anachronistic is about the same as a person from 200 years ago being bothered by a car because it mostly looks like a carriage.
And the carriage-to-car comparison is a bit false. A better one might be the transition from horse-drawn vehicles to steam to the internal combustion engine. Our old friend the wheel is still grand, the basic principle is recognisable, it's that the purely biological power and exertion has been replaced with a lot of technological developments. You might say the same about firearms from crossbows to arquebusses to semi automatic rifles, with the stock/sighting/trigger combo. With these space elves and their space bows, it's the throwback to something even earlier and less efficient that's the consternation. The space bows might be firing energy bolts or something (which is nothing like fantasyat all, right?) but they're still dependent on the space elves holding the whole thing out at arm's length to aim and fire, and using a wide motion of their other arm to draw... something back between the limbs.
A different comparison might be someone from two hundred years ago wondering why we developed the internal combustion engine to propel our vehicles, then decided to get rid of wheels and go back to the good old drag-along-the-ground sled...
... because we 'liked' the shape.
Basically what MLaw said, only taking a bit longer to get there. I especially agree that the rationalisation of the space bows boils down to:
MLaw wrote:Mantic has made a campy "spaaaace elves" decision and I think it's really as simple as that.
I'm gonna be honest, 'modern steampunk nerds that might exist 300 years in the future and be allowed anywhere near a real gun is a sound basis for a society's military R&D' is not one of the more convincing of those rationalisations I've heard.
Thinking about it, if these space elves have to be on the ground with a thing shaped like a bow, why not go with the remotely-operated drone thing that asterians already have? Each space elf has a wee short-range mind-impulse unit or something hooked up to their head, somehow, and connected to a personal, crescent-shaped, antigrav gun-bot. It'd up the model count and it might be a bit reminiscent of Tau drones, among other things, but it might look a fair bit less obvious and goofy.
I like this because blah blah blah, well I don't like this because of blah blah blah, seriously people everyone has opinions and expressing it is fine and all but trying to force your opinions on others is....well.....dull....
overtyrant wrote: I like this because blah blah blah, well I don't like this because of blah blah blah, seriously people everyone has opinions and expressing it is fine and all but trying to force your opinions on others is....well.....dull....
I don't think anyone was 'forcing' anything. Folks just gave the reasons they held their opinion.
scarletsquig wrote: Makes a bit more sense than swarms of critically-endangered, thousands-of-years-old 40k Eldar housewives, gardeners and poets carrying peashooter guns and tinfoil armour dying in droves because they're too angsty to put their dead grandpa in a (massively well armed and armoured) ghost bot.
One flavor of unimaginative space elves doesn't excuse another... especially if the second is much newer and should know better.
scarletsquig wrote: ^ Probably. I'm personally thinking of converting the Dreadball figures with some melee weapons (basilean men-at-arms spears) and counting the dreadball glove as a wrist-mounted energy weapon.
The sculpts are better than the renders for the metal ones and the thongs just don't look quite as good on the ripped abs dudes. Dark Eldar Wych mankinis all over again.
Also, they're plastic and I already have 16 of them that I wasn't doing anything with. Will use the metals in the battlegroup as team leaders to get a unit of 20.
Wait. Are the Kahlesses metal? I thought they were restic.
If they're metal, I'll just sneak them into any outgoing mail I can.
And I agree that the Dreadball gloves make for great sci fi weapons, something along the lines of a Goa'uld hand device, or a Lens, or a Green Lantern ring at the upper end of the tech scale.
DaveC wrote: The BoW article also has a scale image for the Mule next to a current corp trooper
Spoiler:
Thanks.
So kind of a cross between a technical and a SOF Polaris variant. I'm not sure why they would have the cargo compartment sloped towards the cab like that. It would make loading/securing the cargo/unloading it a bitch and a half, but I can see getting one or two.
Yeah doesn't look quite big enough unless 3-4 guys are in the cab or something. I still want a few, but if they aren't bigger I'll just house it to hold 5 guys or something.
GrimDork wrote: Yeah doesn't look quite big enough unless 3-4 guys are in the cab or something. I still want a few, but if they aren't bigger I'll just house it to hold 5 guys or something.
3 or 4 guys in the cab doesn't seem unreasonable. 6 guys in the back, seems a bit over done, but not too much... - I mean, that is only 3 lines of two
How am I going to fit my multibased units on the back of that?
Seriously though, I'm not sold on it from the pictures so far. It might turn out okay, but I wouldn't pledge on it unseen.
Resin is a bit of an odd choice as well (not odd overall, just in the context of this plastic-filled KS). Antenociti making it? Sort of reminiscent of their designs, and they've worked with Mantic before.
GrimDork wrote: Yeah doesn't look quite big enough unless 3-4 guys are in the cab or something. I still want a few, but if they aren't bigger I'll just house it to hold 5 guys or something.
3 or 4 guys in the cab doesn't seem unreasonable. 6 guys in the back, seems a bit over done, but not too much... - I mean, that is only 3 lines of two
You're not fitting 6 guys in the back of that, especially without seats to secure them on that sloped floor. Not if that picture with the trooper is actually to scale.
Well, that's why there's a tilt to the deck, innit? The front row of guys leans on the back of the cabin, the next row leans on the first row, and so on. You could pack 20 on there and they would be very stable.
MLaw wrote: Wow.. that thing is tiny.. hopefully that's just a case of the person doing the scale shot being daft.
If you look at the pintle mounted weapon, and assume it is meant to be fired by so hero standing in the bed, the scaling he used seems to be pretty close.
Again, I like it as a small SF Polaris/DPV type vehicle(though the down tilted bed is dumb). It just does not work as a transport vehicle for a whole squad of guys/10 man transport thing. Since I am not likely to use it in WarPath anyway, a couple may come in handy for other things.
It reminds me of my daughter's Polaris ACE, but with an armored cab.
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