Pacific wrote:
Loki - real shame you couldn't get your group on board with Zombicide, have had so much fun with it it's just a very light-hearted, enjoyable game that doesn't take too much effort to play.

It's not that I can't get the interest, it's just that we play so infrequently that people like to use the miniatures they've been slaving over.

However, because I'm serially indecisive, I've decided to keep my pledge. I'm trying to cut back on how much I spend on Malifaux and Infinity until I get more painted, so sinking the months hobby money into a kickstarter than won't arrive for at least 6 months sounds better now. Also the value.

I might kick in extra for that Cyclops Spearmaiden because phwaor that's nice.

Almost through to the next goal, that shield widen has really brought the money in. We need a few more add ons to really start busting this loose.

Agreed!

CMON must surely see the value in adding on...add-ons!

And theres the bear. Grrr this thing is getting real tempting, which isnt good for someone who is broke :/

So are these things plastic or resin anyway? Looks like a mix or are they just showing resin things cause they havent shipped it off to be produced yet?

'Hard' PVC - see Blood Rage.

Not bad stuff, actually, and CMON has it down now.

Also:

Silence knows that the best course of action in a threatening situation is to move in the shadows, and move quickly! At level 3, he gets an extra Move action as long as he's in Shadow Mode. His attacks rarely miss their mark, since he gets a re-roll for any type of attack he makes. Finally, he may benefit for free from the Bloodmoon Nightrunner skill that stuns his enemy if any of his attacks roll a Bam.

Another $90K stretch goal too - !

So is it just me or are we now unlocking the alternate sex versions of the core boxes. We has whisper the female rogue and now we have silence the male thief .

While 90k stretch goals are annoying, it seems like maybe Black Plague had a little too much value. They might be trying to reign it back in a bit.

But 90k for 2 large wandering monsters and then 90k for a small player character seems a bit much.

Very nice miniature though.

The stretch goals will consistantly get bigger gaps, the more backers there are. We'll eventually get up to 140-175K a goal by the end of it.

Which makes me think there's only a limited amount of figures planned. The only way to find out his hit the goals hard and force them to reveal more. ;D

I think Silence will be the 6th character to fit into a PC-Box that will be for general sale.

CMON always have a fixed number of goals planned, sometimes they won't reach it but they always have them set out and will increase the gap between goals to space them out as needed.

I think CMON added some additional large creatures into Black Plague stretch goals that had not been planned as the sculpter created them with no instructions and offered them to CMON who loved them.

As much as it may seem counter intuitive, I appreciate CMON for doing that.

It means they have their costs exacted, they have their packaging down, and can dial in their expectations pretty accurately. All of this means a smooth roll out for with no hick-ups unless a warehouse floods or containers go into the ocean.

Just got my Black Plague second shipment... any thoughts of not getting MD just went out the window. It's GLORIOUS

I bought mine on ebay and it's going to show up at the office tomorrow.

Knight level + lots of add ons. More than KS price but not horrible. I kinda got lucky with that.

Definitely added the BP add on for MS. Extra play options!

 Theophony wrote:
I like the cyclops, the heroes less so. I think I'll still wait for retail as it will probably be the same or less and no shipping added.

Interesting that you're the opposite of me. I like Heroes a lot; cyclops, not so much. If you were local SoCal, I'd gladly split a box with you.

Spearmaidan Cyclops blog post - http://monster-zer0.blogspot.ie/
Jason designed this one himself and the art was done later from his design.

Rear picture - she's not wearing much (will there be complaints )

Thanks for sharing that. Not. I want the Cyclops even less.

JohnHwangDD wrote:Thanks for sharing that. Not. I want the Cyclops even less.

I want that for the effect its going to have on my friends, when I plonk it down on the table after we've had a few beers

Mymearan wrote:Just got my Black Plague second shipment... any thoughts of not getting MD just went out the window. It's GLORIOUS

It's bloody brilliant isn't it. Board games have moved on so much for the olden days, great times

Monster scale picture!

I like the Shieldmaiden cyclops, but I find it a bit odd that despite her using much more advanced weaponry, and having (somewhat) more clothing then her masculine counterpart, she has a much more 'monstrous' face then the male. It might just be her expression compared to his though.

I'm loving all the monsters they've come up with, and I want more! we have lycanthropes, elementals, and golems already, but would love to see those expanded on. Wereboar, werefox, clay golem, stone golem, smaller elemental entities. Feels like we need more classic dungeon beasts as well. I'm sure there are a bunch of copyrights to dance around from WotC, and such, but Beholder, Otyugh, umber hulk '-esque' creatures would be great!

I'm really pulling for a dragon at the end. We got several with the arcadia quest inferno KS, but would love to see a bunch here too.

Would it kill them to make textured bases? Painters having to rebase 200 minis just seems like a major killer. :(

 skullking wrote:
I'm really pulling for a dragon at the end.

I think CMoN repeatedly said "No Dragons," which I never understood. Everybody wants Dragons.

nkelsch wrote:
Would it kill them to make textured bases? Painters having to rebase 200 minis just seems like a major killer. :(

to give you a textured base would mean they couldn't do the minis as single piece casts anything like as easily (or at all), so either costs go up as assembly is needed in the factory, or boardgamers get sad as they need to glue/slot minis into bases

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Would it kill them to make textured bases? Painters having to rebase 200 minis just seems like a major killer. :(

to give you a textured base would mean they couldn't do the minis as single piece casts anything like as easily (or at all), so either costs go up as assembly is needed in the factory, or boardgamers get sad as they need to glue/slot minis into bases

Only the infantry appear to be single peice casts. They've shown plenty of pictures of the resin masters for the monsters and they're in multiple pieces. It would be unwise to do things like the spider and the snake demon as single piece, as the legs/arms would break taking it out of the mold.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
Would it kill them to make textured bases? Painters having to rebase 200 minis just seems like a major killer. :(

to give you a textured base would mean they couldn't do the minis as single piece casts anything like as easily (or at all), so either costs go up as assembly is needed in the factory, or boardgamers get sad as they need to glue/slot minis into bases

I would have thought this to be true, but considering other companies have done the single-piece boardgame plastic with textured bases, I don't think that holds up anymore.

No joke, I have spent the past hour looking for a base company that makes an appropriate base in all the sizes for this KS and doing the math on what I will need to base all these figures. I can't find a decent dungeon round that is in every size needed. If they all had a basic texture like the DS or NAS Shrine ninja, it would be a non-issue.

I could always gravel and flock instead of cobblestone!

It doesn't have anything to do with the ability to cast; it has everything to do with the primary demographic (boardgamers) not having textured bases as a priority.

Many boardgamers prefer to clip them from the plastic and glue them to clear acrylic.

nkelsch wrote:
Would it kill them to make textured bases?

fwiw, Basius is running a textured base KS right now.

As for MD, yeah, it would drive up costs for separate bases. I'm guessing textured bases on integrated miniatures would be difficult because of undercuts. Dunno.

Myth and Super Dungeon Explore has separate textured bases, but you'd have to fill in the slot with putty. Some slotted models weren't fit into the bases correctly, so would have to be separated.

The Myth slotted textured bases were *bad*. You'd have the slotted tab of the miniature flat, and the textured base wavy. Yeah, that would be fun to fix on every single miniature. SDE sorta had the same problem.

Cthulhu Wars has separate textured bases, but you have to pry them off before painting to paint them a separate color. The pre-glued bases certainly got in the way of removing mold lines.

I liked Sedition War's separate textured bases, but MD is a boardgame, and boardgamers really don't like assembly.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

nkelsch wrote:
I would have thought this to be true, but considering other companies have done the single-piece boardgame plastic with textured bases, I don't think that holds up anymore.

Which ones? Definitely interested. Are the mini's at a cheap price? Want want want!

I know Reaper Bones have textured bases that are integral to the figure, but, I guess, with your Reaper KS pledge, all your money goes into the miniatures. With CMON, some of your money goes into the other boardgame components.

ced1106 wrote:
...but MD is a boardgame, and boardgamers really don't like assembly.

Understatement Of The Year, 2016 Finalist and current leader in the clubhouse!

 Alpharius wrote:

ced1106 wrote:
...but MD is a boardgame, and boardgamers really don't like assembly.

Understatement Of The Year, 2016 Finalist and current leader in the clubhouse!

You know, it's not just boardgamers...

Every miniatures gamer has a stash of unbuilt minis. Piles and stacks, even!

Why, if we were to poll them, the number of miniatures gamers who have built every kit they own, with nothing left to build is probably zero.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 skullking wrote:
I'm really pulling for a dragon at the end.

I think CMoN repeatedly said "No Dragons," which I never understood. Everybody wants Dragons.

I seriously don't understand the logic that they wouldn't want a dragon in the game. Unless they plan on having dragons the focus of a future KS, that would make sense I guess. I feel it needs some sort of REALLY big monster other than the snake demon lady thing.

B-holder!

 skullking wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 skullking wrote:
I'm really pulling for a dragon at the end.

I think CMoN repeatedly said "No Dragons," which I never understood. Everybody wants Dragons.

I seriously don't understand the logic that they wouldn't want a dragon in the game. Unless they plan on having dragons the focus of a future KS, that would make sense I guess. I feel it needs some sort of REALLY big monster other than the snake demon lady thing.

B-holder!

I think I'll freak out my buddies and drop Demogorgon on the board during one game, zombicide zombie for scale purposes.

Edit because I forgot the picture

 skullking wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 skullking wrote:
I'm really pulling for a dragon at the end.

I think CMoN repeatedly said "No Dragons," which I never understood. Everybody wants Dragons.

I seriously don't understand the logic that they wouldn't want a dragon in the game. Unless they plan on having dragons the focus of a future KS, that would make sense I guess. I feel it needs some sort of REALLY big monster other than the snake demon lady thing.

B-holder!

Couple of things to consider.

First, they need to save some stuff for followup campaigns. They don't want to blow their fantasy load in the first campaign. I'm fairly content for them to leave some stuff for the future.

Second, the tiles don't really accommodate anything bigger. A dragon really wouldn't fit on any of the current tiles. We'd be limited to either a baby dragon or something dragon-like.

Tile size is interesting, because even if they added an impressive dragon that needed its own tiles, it would also need its own scenarios to ensure it spawns on the tiles it fits on.

First, a weak initial campaign means a weak follow-up campaign. It's not like there isn't plenty of other stuff to do. Including multiple flavors of dragon.

Second, the tiles are big enough for what appears to be a 75mm base. And it's not like they can't stand the model up. CMoN could easily do dragon the size of the snake-demon-lady -- just add wings!

What's interesting is that they are just completely ignoring what a lot of backers want.

This is hardly a weak campaign. And when I think dragon, I don't think small.

It's hardly setting the world on fire like BP did, and CMoN obviously assumed would happen. This might be the first Zombicide-related KS to pull less revenue than the previous Zombicide KS.

MD's not Zombicide though.

It has different mechanics.
It requires specialty dice.
It lacks the homage characters.
It is not a zombie apocalypse related game.
It exists in a niche with a lot more competition.
It is an unproven title.

MD was specifically marketed as a Zombicide-based game, to ride on the Zombicide wave.

Rather than to stand on its own like the Others or Blood Rage.

I don't see that.

Other than the art style being the same, there's no mention of Zombicide anywhere (until the add-on came about). There's no "celebrity" mimic heros, etc.

It's pretty much been marketed exactly the same way as Blood Rage was. It's pretty much a straight forward dungeon crawler.

Yeah, I haven't seen anywhere there's been comparison or marketing off the back of Zombicide, outside of fans stating it. They've been marketing it as its own game. The BP crossover stuff was very popularly requested, so they did it, but the campaign was well underway by then.

Heck, it didn't even have an undead faction in until the add-on popped up, nor did it say it was set in the same world.

Nope. The early marketing specifically called MD out as a Zombicide successor:

CoolMiniOrNot and Guillotine Games are partnering up again to bring you the ultimate dungeon crawl board game experience with Massive Darkness! Massive Darkness brings the classic fantasy RPG experience to modern board gaming, with an action-packed campaign chock full of gorgeous miniatures and a streamlined system that keeps the focus on the heroes’ actions, with no need for a game master to control the enemies.

Using the popular Zombicide system as a starting point, Massive Darkness adds all the richness of a dungeon crawl RPG. Pick your hero, choose a class, decide on what skills to spend your XP, get loot by searching the dungeon or killing special enemies that can use the equipment against you! Face a multitude of different enemy types, coming in all shapes and sizes, whose behavior is resolved automatically. Or you can try to sneak around enemies by taking advantage of dark areas of the map.

Look for the Kickstarter campaign for Massive Darkness, coming in a few months with plenty of surprises for us to uncover!

That doesn't say what you are saying it does. They just said it uses the mechanics as a starting point. That is like saying the Infinity RPG is a successor to the Achtung! Cthulu RPG, or that the Conan RPG is a successor to the Infinity RPG because they built on the 2D20 system with each successive game.

Agreed. The rules were licensed out and edited into something new, but it was never marketed as a Zombicide.

I totally expected you guys to say that it wouldn't count.

And yet, by specifically saying it's based on Zombicide in the marketing, it's actually marketed under Zombicide.

Otherwise, they'd market it as an all-new game.

But you guys arguing a counterfactual?

No, they're saying they used it as a starting point for the mechanics. That's, like, what they stated. In writing. For English speakers to read. If they were marketing it as a zombicide game, they'd be doinw something more blatant like throwing the Zombicide label on the box above the Massive Darkness name, like they did with Black Plague.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I totally expected you guys to say that it wouldn't count.

And yet, by specifically saying it's based on Zombicide in the marketing, it's actually marketed under Zombicide.

No. It's not. At. All. There's no Zombicide iconography on the box just like this is on ALL THE OTHER ZOMBICIDE PRODUCTS.

Starting mechanics were copied. You drew all the wrong connections from there.

Moving on.

In other news, looks like we'll hit another stretch goal in about 12-16 hours and whisper will be ours! Yay!

Well, thanks to the majority of idiots in my country, it looks like I'll have to back out of this as it's price has just jumped through the roof. Not sure what the implications would be for shipping either, although I'd hope this would ship before we officially leave the EU. Urgh, rubbish day to be english

I'll have to wait and see how things stabilize by the end but I can see myself dropping it too

Same here. EU friendly should be fine still for this project with us as we will still be in the EU when it ships but I will have to think twice about backing any projects unless I am confident they will be delivered in time or they offer separate UK friendly shipping.

CMON used the Zombicide name to get some initial marketing benefit here, but they're not marketing Massive Darkness as a Zombicide game.

I hope the stretch goals past $1.93M (and it is funny to see something that is going to end up at $3M +/- labeled as 'disappointing'!) are a little more impressive.

Like, that start of a new enemy box!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
It's hardly setting the world on fire like BP did, and CMoN obviously assumed would happen.

This is an incorrect assumption.

Hopefully the pound will stabilize before this is over.

Well I'm glad, according to cincy, that CMON is happy with how this is going. And i am too. But i dont feel the ambition and creativity of this campaign that the Zombicide ones had. Add ons were constantly introduced in previous campaigns that introduced new ideas, like archers and doors, new artistic styles, with the guest boxes, and all pulled together well in a relatively consistent visual way by the amazing sculptors employed. I dont just want freebie stretchgoals. I want to pay for addons. And it should be recognized that many of those paid addons were introduced independent of the stretchgoals. I dont know whether CMON built the development cost into the campaign plan and only published about the availability of an addon when certain totals were hit, or whether CMON planned to release them all along regardless of the total. But anyways, the addons really kept me excited in previous campaigns so the general lack here is just really recognizable. My two cents. I recognize not everyone (or anyone?) feels the same way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CMON went out on a limb for many of these addons and paid artists and sculptors probably months before. I just feel that they were a lot more cautious is all, and it's noticeable. I wish they'd been a bit more ambitious.

If they did guest/artist boxes for more (small) monsters i'd love it as I do think they need more of them to keep this as fun and fresh as it could be (especially if we don't get build your own rules)

but i'm far less interested in more heroes especially as paid add ons

I've got plenty of figures I can throw in as proxys if I want to change up the look of things, a few more archetypes (and their dashboards/rules) would be nice, but I don't feel that's where this is lacking

but we'll see in the next couple of weeks if either of us get what we want (and in my case if the pound stabilises enough to keep me in)

Same for me. I hadn't backed it yet but had been leaning towards doing so. Now I have to seriously rethink any KS that isn't UK-based.

Sorry for the money fluctuations for uk-based but us Canadians have seen our dollar go from being valued around $1US to anywhere around $0.70-0.75 with 1-2 years. $1 cdn used to be £0.75 but nowadays its £0.50. Such is the stupidity of currency markets and politicians who constantly tell us its great for the economy.

Im hanging around this campaign until the end before i decide if i want to pay $150cdn for the $120US base game.

Well the drop in the £ could hurt as well with making forgeworld stuff that much cheaper. I'm torn as this looks good, but not great, and CMON has other projects coming like chronicles of HATE.

 greywulf wrote:
Well I'm glad, according to cincy, that CMON is happy with how this is going. A.

Point of fact, the first day and overall estimates have all been outstripped or nearly outstripped.

Ratmen are in!

Ratmen!

That should get the total moving!

Nice, I do wish these things had more than one pose though, I like the idea of adding stuff for games like Kings of War but single pose hurts.

That said, very pretty. First add-on other than the BP one I'm interested in.

I'll take one of those!

I'm hoping for at least 2 poses too...

my skaven just wet themselves...

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
my skaven just wet themselves...

Couple that with the ratbomination from Black Plague......

Looks like that's a 'no' on the multiple poses front:

CMON Team Thiago Aranha about 1 hour ago

@Justin Boehm: Massive Darkness doesn't have alternate poses for the same model. That's the price for having a large variety of enemy types.

3 new tiles and not KS exclusive so there must be another box set/expansion coming up

I asked for more mobs and they've started to deliver

sold

(exchange rate at the end permitting)

I like the rat, though they have surprisingly good posture across the board. Must have spent a lot of time balancing oranges on their heads?

I'm OK with the Lava tiles, but would rather have gotten ratmen instead... maybe there will be another mob that gets bundled in besides the cavemen.

Looks like they could be cut and glued with minor work for more poses. Wouldn't be worth it for MD or some other uses, but for Skaven or whatever might be worthwhile.

Anyone care to venture a guess as to how the Ratmen scale compared to Skaven models?

I'm surprisingly OK with not getting multiple poses here.

As WM360 notes, they won't be too hard to modify anyway, plus they'll serves fine 'as is' for a game of Massive Darkness.

I'm hoping the 'lava tiles' means a Demon Enemy Box is looming!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm OK with the Lava tiles, but would rather have gotten ratmen instead... maybe there will be another mob that gets bundled in besides the cavemen.

Agreed, super disappointed that the rats werent unlocked and the tiles were the addon.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm surprisingly OK with not getting multiple poses here.

As WM360 notes, they won't be too hard to modify anyway, plus they'll serves fine 'as is' for a game of Massive Darkness.

I'm hoping the 'lava tiles' means a Demon Enemy Box is looming!

Here I'm still thinking crossover to the B-Sieged universe. Lava=Molen . They could easily do crossover deck just like the BP ones and then there's the dragon from B-Sieged .

 cincydooley wrote:

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
my skaven just wet themselves...

Couple that with the ratbomination from Black Plague......

Which, people should be aware, is more Hell Pit Abomination than Rat Ogre. It's a bloody lovely model mind, but it overhangs its 70mm base so mine will have to be repurposed from its intended use as a Clan Pestilens Rat Ogre for Mordheim.

Those are some of my favorite Rat-men across the entire industry. Sad they're monopose, but man are they pretty.

Plus, tiles, to me, implies a way of incorporating more tiles into dungeons, which is essentially my last wish-list item.... IE more ways to procedurally generate quests/dungeon layouts for "Story Mode". Hopefully the expansion they will ultimately be part of also means more loot, events, town-phase, stuff.

And we're now into $100K stretch goal territory too...

The gap in stretch goals makes sense, financially. Costs for CMON increase exponentially the more free stuff is added, while the number of backers also increases. I think they learned their lesson on this in past projects.

I know plenty have expressed desire for more tiles, and I am definitely not opposed to them, but in all seriousness there are plenty of combinations to be had for the tiles included in the base game. I know I plan on utilizing various other boardgame or dungeon-crawler tiles in some fashion for MD. I may even splurge and finally get those Hirst Arts molds I've always wanted.

I did a really stupid thing earlier.....visited the KS comments page. Just....yikes. Nearly had to poke my eyes out.

Be nice if there were transition tiles from ZBP to MD. All city tiles are light zones except rooms (which I think is what the lava tiles do as well).

 greywulf wrote:
Well I'm glad, according to cincy, that CMON is happy with how this is going. And i am too. But i dont feel the ambition and creativity of this campaign that the Zombicide ones had. Add ons were constantly introduced in previous campaigns that introduced new ideas, like archers and doors, new artistic styles, with the guest boxes, and all pulled together well in a relatively consistent visual way by the amazing sculptors employed. I dont just want freebie stretchgoals. I want to pay for addons. And it should be recognized that many of those paid addons were introduced independent of the stretchgoals. I dont know whether CMON built the development cost into the campaign plan and only published about the availability of an addon when certain totals were hit, or whether CMON planned to release them all along regardless of the total. But anyways, the addons really kept me excited in previous campaigns so the general lack here is just really recognizable. My two cents. I recognize not everyone (or anyone?) feels the same way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CMON went out on a limb for many of these addons and paid artists and sculptors probably months before. I just feel that they were a lot more cautious is all, and it's noticeable. I wish they'd been a bit more ambitious.

You know, I'm happy with there not being a metric feth ton of paid add-ons. It keeps this campaign managable both in terms of space and finances. I might add-on an additional base pledge and 1-2 of those Trog boxes to make wargaming units with if I'm really feeling a need to add stuff on, but I'm pretty much happy with it as is, and without all of the pop culture KS exclusive add-ons.

Yay Ratlings. Since they're an add-on, I'll wait for them to hit retail. Lava tiles sound interesting, and it's always nice to have more variety in tiles.

I don't think this has been confirmed yet, but the Black Plague tiles are 100% compatible with these.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm surprisingly OK with not getting multiple poses here.

I'm wondering if a pose = it's roll in the game.

All the agents seem to have the same pose so I'm wondering if that helps identify them as agents when stuck in a large group.

It should certainly help, especially when mobs of them are on the board!

More info on the rather lackluster Lava Tiles:

The Lava tiles will probably be double sided, but I'm not sure what will be on the back. There are only really 3 Lava tile artworks we created, and that's it. Most likely the back of each tile will have a repeat of its corresponding core box tile layout.

Jun 24 2016 on Massive Darkness

In essence the Lava tiles only play around with Light/Shadow distribution. But there's nothing stopping either us or you from adding some new effects to them.

Jun 24 2016 on Massive Darkness

I really hope they're part of some larger expansion box effort...

...though that would mean another $400 - $500K worth of 'stretch goals' to fill it up!

Well it leaves room for other tiles if we get that far. Another set of three in another stretch goal could be printed on the reverse.

I'm a bit disappointed they didn't tie them in with the Elementals. Three lava, three water, three air (deep crevices) and three rocky cave. All with different effects on the 'elemental' part of the tile.

They could do some sort of effect card in the random effect deck that there's a lava surge and anyone in the lava areas take 1 damage. This would affect the creatures also. Maybe it could heal the fire type critters while doing it as well, or when the fire elemental is on the board it doubles any damage caused by the surge.

That's a good idea, and also why I wish they'd offer some blank cards as an add-on.

Any chance of even the base game delivering by Christmas? I considered double dipping as a Christmas gift for my nephews but if it's got no chance of delivering by Christmas, well... awkward.

It's not even scheduled till like April, so better plan a different gift.

Also $2million dollars

Hadn't planned it yet, just thought they'd have a blast with it. Might get them Black Plague instead.

Tiles are in.

Next goal.

As someone new to CMON KS, can I ask, do we expect to see any KS exclusive minis outside the main pledge? I'm not too bothered on missing out on KS exclusive dice and as such, but would like to get all the minis that wont be available later.

Though if the £ tanks any further might have to got off this entirely. At least the fact that it turns out there is no plan whatsoever for what we just voted for means we should still be in the EU when this delivers. Even if it's 2018 or something.

Kinda getting cold feet on this. I have about 10 dungeon crawl games already and am wondering if I really need another...

That's... odd looking. Dropped from 100k to 90k for this stretch?

edit - ah, not, 100k. I thought the tiles were 2040k.

 Darkjim wrote:
As someone new to CMON KS, can I ask, do we expect to see any KS exclusive minis outside the main pledge? I'm not too bothered on missing out on KS exclusive dice and as such, but would like to get all the minis that won't be available later.

If there is a full-sized add-on it would probably come with a KickStarter exclusive figure but there's no sign of one of those so far, and I can't think of a time they've introduced one this late in the campaign.

Well, the first Zombicide campaign didn't have an expansion. Toxic City Mall was an expansion in the season 2 campaign. That's the kickstarter to compare to, IMO. CMON and GG are more known, but they're testing the waters with a new property.

The Fomorian is very nice, although I'm not quite sure what distinguishes it from an Ogre, aside from name. Visually, though, I always think Formorians from Bisley's Slaine:

I think of either the actual myths they're based on (they're in Mierce Daklands stuff, rather prominently! ) or this guy:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fomorian_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

Anyway, I rather like the look of this one - and appreciate that he's 'free' too!

The background for that monster is... geez.

Uh, yeah. I hope it doesn't make print.

ecurtz wrote:

 Darkjim wrote:
As someone new to CMON KS, can I ask, do we expect to see any KS exclusive minis outside the main pledge? I'm not too bothered on missing out on KS exclusive dice and as such, but would like to get all the minis that won't be available later.

If there is a full-sized add-on it would probably come with a KickStarter exclusive figure but there's no sign of one of those so far, and I can't think of a time they've introduced one this late in the campaign.

Thanks very much

Random bits to tide us over on this slow Mid-Campaign Monday:

@Paul I.: Well, we're heading towards the final run, so everything is kinda running out. SG look like they will hold, but there are not many add-ons left.

Jun 27 2016 on Massive Darkness

Well, we'd have to hit the mid-campaign slump eventually, and looks like this is it. No reason to panic, we're still chugging along at a very nice pace. I still have a couple of cool optional buys in my pocket, and several stretch goals still to reveal in the 10 days that remain.

Jun 27 2016 on Massive Darkness

@Paul "Honk" Sousa: Not quite. How well Blood Rage did was a bigger surprise, and we had to scramble a lot to keep the campaign going. With MD we knew it could be around the size of a Zombicide campaign, so we are little better prepared for how it's going.

@Christopher Nutt - Incandescent: Yep, I won't forget to put out an add-on soon enough, but we I need to spread them out a little bit now.

While there's been a lot of griping, it's fairly obvious CMON have done a lot of analysis of their previous campaigns and know where this one was likely headed.

In the last few KS that CMON have done there's been a big bad ass or box of bad asses that come out at that the end.

4 Horsemen for The Others
Winter Wolf for Blood Rage
Abominarat (or whatever) for BP

There's some big punches left.

At this point I'll likely only go for an add on with a Kickstarter exclusive. But I'm keen to see what's coming in the final stretch.

The long, slow slog toward the Fomorian continues!

Meanwhile...

Guys, I'm sorry but, as I said from the beginning, there are no dragons lurking in the darkness.

Jun 27 2016 on Massive Darkness

@Pressureman: There might be no dragon, but the shadows still hide some pretty awesome things.

Jun 27 2016 on Massive Darkness

I knew it!

Whether they're unlocks or get repackaged as add ons to generate cash, we'll get to see them.

I don't know what I'd like to see, but generally the last stuff out is super cool (and big!)

 Moopy wrote:
I knew it!

Whether they're unlocks or get repackaged as add ons to generate cash, we'll get to see them.

I don't know what I'd like to see, but generally the last stuff out is super cool (and big!)

Er, we'll get to see what?

Or are you just saying that we'll get some more big stretch goals towards the end?

 -Loki- wrote:
At this point I'll likely only go for an add on with a Kickstarter exclusive.

Same here, Miniature Market/amazon/etc have them the same price as during the campaign, so no real reason to buy 6+ months in advance for no savings. I actually do appreciate the lack of KS exclusives on this. Rum and Bones was a nightmare, with every other add on being exclusive.

Locked down the base pledge + ZBP cards + Doors.

I may double down on the base pledge for the extra figures.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
At this point I'll likely only go for an add on with a Kickstarter exclusive.

Same here, Miniature Market/amazon/etc have them the same price as during the campaign, so no real reason to buy 6+ months in advance for no savings. I actually do appreciate the lack of KS exclusives on this. Rum and Bones was a nightmare, with every other add on being exclusive.

Well, there 'reason' to do so here is to drive up the pledge level, unlock more things, increase the 'value' of the base pledge, etc.

But, I do take your point.

However, if everyone followed that path, far fewer things would get unlocked!

 Alpharius wrote:

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
At this point I'll likely only go for an add on with a Kickstarter exclusive.

Same here, Miniature Market/amazon/etc have them the same price as during the campaign, so no real reason to buy 6+ months in advance for no savings. I actually do appreciate the lack of KS exclusives on this. Rum and Bones was a nightmare, with every other add on being exclusive.

Well, there 'reason' to do so here is to drive up the pledge level, unlock more things, increase the 'value' of the base pledge, etc.

But, I do take your point.

However, if everyone followed that path, far fewer things would get unlocked!

True true. But I got like 20 darklands hosts to buy now lol. Only so much money to throw around right now.

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 Bossk_Hogg wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
At this point I'll likely only go for an add on with a Kickstarter exclusive.

Same here, Miniature Market/amazon/etc have them the same price as during the campaign, so no real reason to buy 6+ months in advance for no savings. I actually do appreciate the lack of KS exclusives on this. Rum and Bones was a nightmare, with every other add on being exclusive.

Well, there 'reason' to do so here is to drive up the pledge level, unlock more things, increase the 'value' of the base pledge, etc.

But, I do take your point.

However, if everyone followed that path, far fewer things would get unlocked!

True true. But I got like 20 darklands hosts to buy now lol. Only so much money to throw around right now.

Its not like they won't release it retail later if not unlocked here. Even if it's a little later or they save it to the next kickstarter. Some big bills just hit, so I might have to back out of this one. Only thing I REALLY want out of it is the ZBP crossover cards, so I might have to hit someone up to add those onto their pledge. I'll hang on as long as I can, there might be another way......

New add on - nice Heroes the Hellephant is a bit of a miss for me though, I think it's the arms.

I like the first hero shown, the sword woman or whatever she is, the hellephant is okay, but I can see what they were going for and missed. The others are eh.

I actually really like the Hellephant relative to a bunch of the roamers. It's in my top third anyway. Heroes are more of the same, although the warrior priestess is a pretty nice sculpt.

These Heroes are also nice, too bad they're not going to be in the base package. I wonder that CMoN is done adding things to the $120 pledge?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
These Heroes are also nice, too bad they're not going to be in the base package. I wonder that CMoN is done adding things to the $120 pledge?

The current SG is for adding to the base pledge...

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
These Heroes are also nice, too bad they're not going to be in the base package. I wonder that CMoN is done adding things to the $120 pledge?

The current SG is for adding to the base pledge...

Yeah I don't see anything big being added....well no expansion boxes, but maybe we will see something large.

Well, we'd have to hit the mid-campaign slump eventually, and looks like this is it. No reason to panic, we're still chugging along at a very nice pace. I still have a couple of cool optional buys in my pocket, and several stretch goals still to reveal in the 10 days that remain.

Jun 27 2016 on Massive Darkness

CMON said the above after the Fomorian was revealed, but before the Hellephant box

so that suggests there's one more optional buy (another box? please let it be another mob set!) to come

and several stretch goals if the money come in (who knows I wouldn't be surprised if the darkness gets personified in some way)

Well Thiago has ruled out a large expansion add on for Massive Darkness so that leaves Enemy box or Hero & Monster box we have 3 Enemy boxes and 3 Hero boxes to date although only 2 Enemy boxes are mob type and there are 3 non KS exclusive heroes not assigned to a set yet.

I will probably get the base game and the Black Plague crossover cards.

If figure that I will wind up getting Zombicide Black Plague before Massive Darkness comes out. Seems like a fun game that my son might enjoy.

That Priest in the add-on the only priest we are getting?

 complex57 wrote:
I will probably get the base game and the Black Plague crossover cards.

If figure that I will wind up getting Zombicide Black Plague before Massive Darkness comes out. Seems like a fun game that my son might enjoy.

This is what I'm doing, for this reason. I've had my eye on Black Plague for a while and I'll probably get it before this ships. Also they're exclusive so there's no chance of getting them later other than at ebay scalper prices.

I really like the Hellephant. They've been knocking these large monsters out of the park. They're just great. Though again I'll wait for retail for these. The only add on I'm considering is the Ratling box for more mobs, and that I might do after the campaign is finished.

I really do want to see just one more box of mobs. We've got bad humans, bad dwarves, ratmen, goblins and orcs. Plus zombies if you get the crossover cards. One more fantasy archetype would be nice to round it out. Maybe, as said, demons to go with the roamer in the set. Or maybe the other way with generic animal trash mobs.

I like the idea of generic animal trash mobs.

Could go well with our new stretch.



CMON mentioned possibly printing lava on the backs of these, as well as crystal tiles on the back of the lava ones, giving us 6 tiles of new artwork.

Seriously more tiles? Near the end of the campaign too, lame.

Also didnt they say they didnt even know what to put on the back of the molten ones and wed just get reprints from the base game?

Makes these even worse imo

Oohh, more tiles.

They could be padding it out a bit with some stuff they didn't plan. Remember, the last 48 hours of a campaign are usually as crazy as the first 48 hours. We'll hit 3 million easily, so they might have decided to throw in an unplanned padding stretch goal.

 xevv wrote:
Seriously more tiles? Near the end of the campaign too, lame.

That'll be an unpopular opinion here. Who doesn't love more tiles?

Different tiles are good in a dungeon crawl. The layout might be rehashing old tiles but the light and shadow mechanics make them unique in how you use shadow mode in them.

 cincydooley wrote:

 xevv wrote:
Seriously more tiles? Near the end of the campaign too, lame.

That'll be an unpopular opinion here. Who doesn't love more tiles?

I wasnt aware only popular opinions were allowed. My mistake.

Ended up dropping out. Got plenty of dungeon crawlers already. I'll be back for BP2 for sure though!

 xevv wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 xevv wrote:
Seriously more tiles? Near the end of the campaign too, lame.

That'll be an unpopular opinion here. Who doesn't love more tiles?

I wasnt aware only popular opinions were allowed. My mistake.

Never said it wasn't allowed. Just that it'd be unpopular (and in the minority).

Lame, right?

 Alpharius wrote:

 Moopy wrote:
I knew it!

Whether they're unlocks or get repackaged as add ons to generate cash, we'll get to see them.

I don't know what I'd like to see, but generally the last stuff out is super cool (and big!)

Er, we'll get to see what?

Or are you just saying that we'll get some more big stretch goals towards the end?

More big critter things toward the end. The Hellephant and such.

The Elephant is paid, not a SG.

True.

I'm saying that there are bigger monsters/crazier sculpts to look forward to at the end of a KS to help push the last minute sales frenzy. They could be SG or add ons.

The Crystal map tiles are interesting becuase they are the inverse of the regular tiles, and free. I don't know if I would have cared enough to pay for a tile pack, but 6 additional tiles Lava/Crystal are enough to create all new maps

...or both!

They'll be both...

Anyway, I'm OK with more tiles - more variety is a good thing there.

I still hold out hope for one more Mob though!

Still hoping they talk a bit more about "Story" mode before the end.

I still feel like an "easy" stretch goal, is just promising to expand Story Mode beyond whatever initial plans they have. Tell me you'll add a dungeon randomizer, promise to greatly expand your between session town/travel phase... whatever.

And of course... more loot cards, considering they double as diversifiers of the enemies, should've been a goal by now. I'm shocked they skipped that one.

Either way, i'm still in for about $300 right now. :-p

I'm honestly on the edge. I kinda want it but I'm pretty sure I'll almost never play it. So it's a bit of a question mark for me. And it doesn't have the residual value that seems to come with zombicide so resale is less likely.

This one will see heavy use on our game table - I'm in for good!

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Still hoping they talk a bit more about "Story" mode before the end.

I still feel like an "easy" stretch goal, is just promising to expand Story Mode beyond whatever initial plans they have. Tell me you'll add a dungeon randomizer, promise to greatly expand your between session town/travel phase... whatever.

And of course... more loot cards, considering they double as diversifiers of the enemies, should've been a goal by now. I'm shocked they skipped that one.

Either way, i'm still in for about $300 right now. :-p

That all sounds good to me, but this:

And of course... more loot cards, considering they double as diversifiers of the enemies, should've been a goal by now. I'm shocked they skipped that one.

sounds like a REALLY good idea too!

I'm going to go post that in the KS comments section and then...watch as it gets drowned out and go unanswered!

Listen, from a logistics POV some items just make sense. The way they've structured loot, each handful of interesting loot cards adds disproportionate gameplay value, as they change up your rewards, and potentially the threat variety of enemies.

If a pile of new minions is financially not viable, you can add just as much diversity with 25 new loot cards, etc... From a business perspective its an easier sell, and for those who can see beyond raw plastic addiction (which I don't begrudge obviously), it adds just as much meaningful play value.

Yeah, I'd love to see an advanced equipment pack that had a bunch more cards and a couple dice that went with them. I think even if there was only one copy of each a third die color for offense and defense would significantly improve the strategy of equipment mixing. They could be less powerful but have extra bams and diamonds or something.

I wish there was an option to buy more of the large roaming monsters we got for free. I would love 2 Nightmare Things, maybe another Ogre Rockbreaker, cockatrix, wearbear, and Fomorian

Chopxsticks wrote:
I wish there was an option to buy more of the large roaming monsters we got for free. I would love 2 Nightmare Things, maybe another Ogre Rockbreaker, cockatrix, wearbear, and Fomorian

Well there sort of is... you just buy another pledge, and then sell everything you dont want on ebay. Its just not a very good option.

Looking at some other kickstarter packages that have made their way to ebay, Id say youll break even, even pulling a few models out. Just be bit till you get your money back.

Was the Priest ever addressed? IS the only priest option a add-on Purchase?

As far as I know, CMON have never added extra equipment/ loot cards in to a game, have they?

Maybe they did with Black Plague and the vault weapons, now that I think of it.

I know Arcadia Quest never got any.

I too would love an expanded Story Mode stretch. Just make it work better than Dungeon Saga's, and we're good!

There were also a few specialty weapons added to the original Zombicide KS weren't there? Some pimped-out shotgun, and some other novelty weapon variation?

Its been a while, but I vaguely recall something like that.

Either way, a Story-Mode stretch would really seal the deal for me, much more so than a few more one-off wandering monsters. Miniatures of random-ass creatures I have for days, thanks to Bones, etc... but a meaningful, co-op RPG dungeon-crawl I do not have. :-p

I'm hovering back to cancelling my pledge. for the same reasons. It'll never see the table. I'm getting tired of trying to get my group to try new stuff and it's just wasted money sitting in the cupboard.

You should stay in.

You like it, its a good deal, it looks to be a lot of fun, and I have faith in your ability to charm your friends into playing!

There's also Operation Red Veil that I'd rather spend my hobby money on. Which actually will see use.

I'm holding at $1. Somehow, it's not entirely compelling. Even though, in theory, it should be a near auto-buy for me.

The models are nice enough. Gameplay mechanics seem simple enough. It looks to be a not-unfair amount of stuff for the money, with decent variety and a interesting light/dark hook.

But then there are gameplay balance issues with how Shadow Mode balances with non-Shadow Mode. The emphasis on big Roaming Monsters is cool and all, but how many are ever going to hit the tabletop compared to Mobs?

And why isn't this leading with the Story Mode campaign that backers really want vs the unfinished one-off gameplay video?

So I hold at $1, and wait and see.

if I drop to $1, do I have the option to go back in for the $120 pledge when the manager goes up? I might do that. I can think of better stuff to spend the money on right now, but in a month or two I might reconsider.

 -Loki- wrote:
if I drop to $1, do I have the option to go back in for the $120 pledge when the manager goes up? I might do that. I can think of better stuff to spend the money on right now, but in a month or two I might reconsider.

Yes, you will.

Thanks, think I might do that then.

 -Loki- wrote:
if I drop to $1, do I have the option to go back in for the $120 pledge when the manager goes up?

From the KS FAQ at the bottom of the page:

Q: Can I make just a $1 pledge now?

A: You can make a $1 pledge now, and when the Pledge Manager goes live after the campaign has ended you can add more funds to get a full pledge and any add-ons you'd like.

If I'm not entirely sold, I toss a buck in to get the updates and decide at the end, or during PM whether or not to back.

I'm doing it to get the minis for my D&D table, If I ever actually play the game it's going to be a double bonus.

Hellephant Blog post

http://monster-zer0.blogspot.ie/2016/06/massive-darkness-hellephant-aka-kevin.html

Thanks, Dave C.

As usual, Hendricks gives a thoughtful, interesting account of how this miniature came to be. Yag-Kosha was an obvious reference (and a much better name.)

I'm still not sure if I like this one or not, but I think Hendricks' account makes it more appealing than the word "Hellephant," which is a typical Zombicide-brand-stupid-name (Abominarat?). Even "Kevin" is better. I guess "Hellephant" sells the figure, but it undersells the intelligence behind it.

Guillotine games monster names are right up there with Masters of the Universe names. Hellephant, Man-E-Faces, Abominarat, Stinkor . . .

As for the campaign in general, I'll be scoping out ebay, or possibly Dakka, to pick up a Nightmare Thing; one sculpt isn't enough to make buying and reselling the KS pledge worth it.

Went down to $1, might go up in the PM.

If I'm reading Kicktraq right, this campaign is going very well. It's only slightly lower than Zombicide Black Plague was at this point in the campaign. So maybe another couple million isn't out of the question?

I still think it will end up between $3 and $4 million.

I recently upped my pledge to include all available add-ons.

We'll have to see what mega addons they put in towards the end. Without any reason to spend another extra $, this one will not go high.

Some of them boardgames are not Zombicide and thus will not go 20394498594854584$.

 Alpharius wrote:
I still think it will end up between $3 and $4 million.

I recently upped my pledge to include all available add-ons.

It will.

So you're at $300, then?

I actually want all the stuff for this game, but I know I can get all the add-ons at retail later for as good if not cheaper than the KS price. Except the ZBP cards...DEFINITELY adding money for those!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I still think it will end up between $3 and $4 million.

I recently upped my pledge to include all available add-ons.

It will.

So you're at $300, then?

I think it is actually $286 for me?

I'm skipping the special dice, and I got an Early Bird.

I think that's right...

I was just ballparking for a non-EB getting all the stuff.

Personally, I'm still holding at $1, maybe looking at just a basic pledge.

Pledge dropped to $1. In a month or two when the pledge manager goes up, I'll likely throw in for a basic pladge and the Black Plague cards again.

$120 gets you quite a bit here.

And CMON does let $1 now get you everything via PM invite later, so that's always a nice option too.

In for $1 atm, I can't remember how Cmon does it but do the pledge manager funds count towards stretch goals?

Typically no, they do not.

Whatever is in the total when the campaign ends is it!

Aw, that's a shame. Maybe I'l up to the base pledge for now then. And add the hero boxes later so I have alt genders for all the classes, except the assassin but she just looks like another thief so not bothered about that one.

Yup. Whereever the campaign closes is where it's at. If you're going to back, do so by the end. If you're not sure, then put a buck in as a placeholder.

New goal.



Resin master:


Which then completes the second actual included expansion!

Lord Tusk is just awesome! I'm definitely going to need that model at some point, so awesome to see it's in an expansion box

I'm also in for $1, is there ever an option to buy add-ons without the base game in the pledge manager? I know it's not as "worth it" if it is possible, of course.

CMoN generally doesn't do that.

You, however, can buy the pledge and try to sell the base game at 50% of MSRP or so.

I would imagine you could sell off the game and all the exclusives for a bit more than you pay now, shipping included.

I'd imagine you'd make even more if you part it out, all provided the game is a hit. Heck, even then, the role players are always on the lookout for cool opponents for the PCs to fight.

He does look pretty cool though, that Lord Tusk.

Wonder if we'll see a Friday add on?

Oh, if you sell the exclusives, you should make a net profit of some sort. The thing is, those retail pledges are going to take the edge off the market, even if they're not supposed to hit eBay... (right)

Lord Tusk is another swing and a miss for me... he looks like he's borrowing his older brother's cleaver in his right hand, not completely effectively, and holding his dad's cleaver in the other due to being unable to wield it.

Yeah I don't like him either, if I pledge in the end I'll probably add the ratmen, doors and BP crossover and nothing else. I don't need even MORE heroes and none of the wandering monsters seem worth the price. I'm really happy about that actually since buying everything would be an absurd amount of money for me! We're up to 5 boxed expansions with new content already and I'm guessing there'll be more to come...´

edit: Oh wait he's free? Well that's that then...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
CMoN generally doesn't do that.

You, however, can buy the pledge and try to sell the base game at 50% of MSRP or so.

Or you can just try to add-on that add-on on to someone's pledge that is pledging for the full game.

Assuming that CMON allows it as an add-on during the PM phase, of course!

I'm also somewhat unimpressed by Lord Tusk.

But I'll happily accept the 'free' gift!

Lord Tusk blog post http://monster-zer0.blogspot.ie/2016/07/massive-darkness-lord-tusk.html

He's a lot smaller than I thought he was

What's the base size on the Ablobination in that size comparison pic? Still looks pretty beefy to me, I'll be after one for anyone who doesn't want to keep theirs

Blob is on a 35mm base and is the same height (35mm approx) as the regular Abominations.

Hes an ok model, if you can get past the cleaver he could never actually wield.

Kinda wish we could have just picked the one 27$ kit we wanted though. Personally would have preferred the hellephant one.

Oh well it coulda have been worse they coulda used that bareassed cyclops one as SG material.

 xevv wrote:
Hes an ok model, if you can get past the cleaver he could never actually wield.

Kinda wish we could have just picked the one 27$ kit we wanted though. Personally would have preferred the hellephant one.

Oh well it coulda have been worse they coulda used that bareassed cyclops one as SG material.

Tusk reminds me of a Trollblood. Not necessarily a bad thing but definitely getting the cartoonishly oversized weapons PP vibe from it.

Lord Tusk is VERY obviously an Ogre Tyrant (even including the weapon options) from GW's Ogre/Ogor line. :-) As a player of said armies... i'm digging it.

Lord Tusk is fine - he's an Ogre with a huge sword and a much huge-er sword.

Thing is, with Conan, SDE Legends and Journey Wave 2 all notionally inbound (for me) between now and when MD might deliver, I'm not sure I need to add a $150 Dungeon Crawler on top of it all. The more I think about it, the more I think I really should just pass on this one.

$1 added to my pledge to cover you dropping out!

Nice!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Lord Tusk is fine - he's an Ogre with a huge sword and a much huge-er sword.

Thing is, with Conan, SDE Legends and Journey Wave 2 all notionally inbound (for me) between now and when MD might deliver, I'm not sure I need to add a $150 Dungeon Crawler on top of it all. The more I think about it, the more I think I really should just pass on this one.

Two out of three ain't bad? I don't think we'll see Jw2 for a long, long time - if ever. Considering that CMON are giving roughly a year to fulfil this, and they're a company with their ducks in a row in terms of sculpts, etc and more importantly - production facilities and shipping/distribution lined up

Yeah, pretty much, although it looks like Conan is closest to delivering. Journey is kinda quiet, but at least the stuff they show is nice; need patience here. SDE is hung up in rules, but will be nice enough when it finally delivers.

MD clearly has rules / balance issues, but CMoN has a history of consistently delivering product. Story mode is still very much an open question, and it could delay the release.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Yeah, pretty much, although it looks like Conan is closest to delivering. Journey is kinda quiet, but at least the stuff they show is nice; need patience here. SDE is hung up in rules, but will be nice enough when it finally delivers.

MD clearly has rules / balance issues, but CMoN has a history of consistently delivering product. Story mode is still very much an open question, and it could delay the release.

It does?

I guess I wasn't really aware of any/many, but I guess I'm also not too worried as there's more than enough time to use this 'open beta' to fine tune/tweak/fix them too.

Same goes for 'Story Mode', though I would like to know more about that before the campaign ends, but I don't think that's happening.

The thing is that MD is one of the first of the CMON KS where they're adding in an additional 3-6 months to fulfilment, since they've finally realised that they can't actually deliver on their previous promises, and it's simply hurting their rep with people who don't take "but kickstarter" as a total and perfect explanation anymore from a company that has run about 4,235 of them. The extra time gives them plenty of time to nut out the rules, and they typically are more open with them than many other companies. SDE is doing well in this regard as well, I have to say - when it finally gets sent out it will have been thoroughly playtested. I just hope it's before June 2017.

Journey I pretty much have no faith in at this point. It's akin to Robotech Tactics, IMO.

@Alphy - to me, Conan looks closer than Journey Wave 2, SDE:Legends or Massive Darkness. Just my opinion, though.

Balance-wise, it seems that Shadow Mode is not balanced against non-Shadow Mode. It was categorically better for non-Melee Heroes, and adding a bonus attack action makes it a no-brainer for non-Melee Heroes. Again, just my opinion.

I don't believe that Story Mode exists at all - it's something that backers wanted, and will need to be created as an alternative to the existing rules.

I agree with Az that the extra time is a good thing, and suspect that Story Mode and playtesting could use a bunch of it. Same with SDE:Legends needing more playtesting, esp. when Legends gets created.

I just hope they DO use the extra time to playtest, tighten everything up AND get a really good story mode developed.

Confidence is high, as Black Plague is a good game - I think they'll be able to pull it off.

I read that Story Mode was originally part of Organized Play.

Speaking of the not-GW Ogre, I'd like to see CMON have a generic fantasy miniatures wargame (cf. Wrath of Kings) that uses the MD miniatures. Seems CMON gets it, that crossovers sell mini's!

And GW's crossovers like SHulk, BaC, IKR, don't sell minis?

ced1106 wrote:I read that Story Mode was originally part of Organized Play.

Speaking of the not-GW Ogre, I'd like to see CMON have a generic fantasy miniatures wargame (cf. Wrath of Kings) that uses the MD miniatures. Seems CMON gets it, that crossovers sell mini's!

CMON has had surprisingly few crossovers using their own properties, for some reason...

I think they want WoK to be their fantasy miniatures wargame, though its decidedly not generic!

JohnHwangDD wrote:And GW's crossovers like SHulk, BaC, IKR, don't sell minis?

Objection - relevance?

Was he not implying that GW did not "get" the crossover effect?

Anyhow, with the bloom off the rose and a cooler head, I went and pulled my MD pledge, not even keeping the $1 in for updates. Not that CMoN will fail to deliver a game with a fair value, but for me:
1. $120 + ~$30 CA S&H is awfully expensive when my friends aren't enthused
2. Basic rules aren't quite right, and Story Mode is tbd
3. I don't need another dungeon / campaign game that directly overlap SDE:Legends / KD:M.
4. I don't need another pile o' minis that overlaps Conan
5. It's not boutique like Journey or KD:M.

I think this is largely similar to my feelings on Ninja All Stars, Blood Rage and the Others, where a favorable minis/dollar ratio doesn't outweigh the fact that I'm just adding to the pile.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Anyhow, with the bloom off the rose and a cooler head, I went and pulled my MD pledge, not even keeping the $1 in for updates. Not that CMoN will fail to deliver a game with a fair value, but for me:

For me, I'm in for the $120 + S&H because this was the game I really wanted and bought Z:BP. If I had a time machine...

Now if it was this OR the KD heroes game, I'd drop this in nano-seconds. But as it is this can sit next to Z:BP and my D&D board games.

Iain.

Oh, no doubt MD is far more compelling than Z:BP. By far. There are more interesting mechanics and tactics available.

I'm actually kinda hoping for KD:Heroes to launch later this year.

I haven't pledged for this yet, but given how popular Zombicide is/was here, along with Black Plague I can see it getting a lot of play, so I'll probably get 2x the base pledge and get a few extras since I can build a KoW army or two out of the models - and I love dual-use.

OT: How do you use your ownminiatures in KoW, anyway? I know I could use an orc grunt mini in KoW, but how would I use a "heroic" miniature or "boss" monster? That is, would I be able to give it special abilities?

I know you can do this with Song of Blade and Heroes, but don't know how you do this with KoW. TIA!

ced1106 wrote:
OT: How do you use your ownminiatures in KoW, anyway? I know I could use an orc grunt mini in KoW, but how would I use a "heroic" miniature or "boss" monster? That is, would I be able to give it special abilities?

I know you can do this with Song of Blade and Heroes, but don't know how you do this with KoW. TIA!

For example on the larger boss figures it depends on what army your using.

I'm using my figs from B-Sieged(the Molen) to counts as an ogre army. I'm using the Avatar (large model) as a mammoth and giving it a ballista upgrade (it breathing fire ). I'm also using some of the large figures from Blood Rage in the same army (the flaming monkey giant and the frost giant painted up as flaming) as Giants.

I'm also building a Herd army using all were creatures (lycans). I'm using figs from CMoN's wrath of Kings Gorsiti and old confrontation line as well as a few other figs from other manufacturers as the tribals. In this army I'm using the Blood Rage Fenrir model to counts as the Avatar of the Father. Also using one of the larger Gorsiti werewolves as a Lyman alpha and giving him a magic upgrade to explain his steam powered armor and weapon.

Each army differs in what you can take and each of those choices has options on what you can give them. Each entry also has a base size for the model, but KOW is also flexible with how many models per base so you can go a little larger figures and just have a few less on the base.

Lord tusks here and the next add-on is a campaign booklet and the fact they will be double siding the Crystal and Lava tiles.

 Llamahead wrote:
Lord tusks here and the next add-on is a campaign booklet and the fact they will be double siding the Crystal and Lava tiles.

Which means 6 tiles total, at least from my reading of the comments section and not 3tiles with the crystal on one side and the lava on the other. Am I right with that? It's late and I find the wording ambiguous

Also if my count is right (once again it's late) that's now 143 miniatures and 25 terrain elements in the base pledge .

Yes it 6 tiles total

On a related note, following backers' suggestions we have decided that the back of the Lava tiles will contain copies of the Crystal tiles, and the back of the Crystal tiles will contain copies of the Lava tiles. And to add even more layout possibilities, we will be mirroring the art on the back of these tiles, thus creating new corridor and room setups in most of the reverse sides!

The reverse of the tiles will have the other environments artwork but not just a copy it will be mirrored - flipped across an axis so it can't be just 3 tiles it must be 6

 Theophony wrote:

ced1106 wrote:
OT: How do you use your ownminiatures in KoW, anyway? I know I could use an orc grunt mini in KoW, but how would I use a "heroic" miniature or "boss" monster? That is, would I be able to give it special abilities?

I know you can do this with Song of Blade and Heroes, but don't know how you do this with KoW. TIA!

For example on the larger boss figures it depends on what army your using.

I'm using my figs from B-Sieged(the Molen) to counts as an ogre army. I'm using the Avatar (large model) as a mammoth and giving it a ballista upgrade (it breathing fire ). I'm also using some of the large figures from Blood Rage in the same army (the flaming monkey giant and the frost giant painted up as flaming) as Giants.

I'm also building a Herd army using all were creatures (lycans). I'm using figs from CMoN's wrath of Kings Gorsiti and old confrontation line as well as a few other figs from other manufacturers as the tribals. In this army I'm using the Blood Rage Fenrir model to counts as the Avatar of the Father. Also using one of the larger Gorsiti werewolves as a Lyman alpha and giving him a magic upgrade to explain his steam powered armor and weapon.

Each army differs in what you can take and each of those choices has options on what you can give them. Each entry also has a base size for the model, but KOW is also flexible with how many models per base so you can go a little larger figures and just have a few less on the base.

Theo explained it well. - Link to your P&M blog with the army pics, makes it easier for people to visualise.

I like the sound of what they're doing with the extra tiles. Now we just need some missions to use them in!

 Azazelx wrote:
I like the sound of what they're doing with the extra tiles. Now we just need some missions to use them in!

Stretch goal that makes them double sided also has a 6 quest mini campaign to use the tiles, and environmental effects for the tiles.

Ah, coolio!

I'm about 90% sure I'll buy back in with a base pledge and the Black Plague cards when the Pledge Manager goes up. The stretch goals are really good.

Just this time of year tends to be a bit clogged with releases since everyone likes doing stuff around Gencon.

 -Loki- wrote:
I'm about 90% sure I'll buy back in with a base pledge and the Black Plague cards when the Pledge Manager goes up. The stretch goals are really good.

Just this time of year tends to be a bit clogged with releases since everyone likes doing stuff around Gencon.

Same here. Just got some B-Day cash from my parents, it's been about 10 years since that has happened. I'm sure the game will be great, but finances have me at $1, but an awesome DD person said I could order the add ons through them, so I'm torn. The money I got could buy a ton of other things now.

I was on the fence about backing up until they released the black plague add on, just as my pledge was being delivered, well played CMON, well played.

Thiago Aranha wrote:
On a related note, following backers' suggestions we have decided that the back of the Lava tiles will contain copies of the Crystal tiles, and the back of the Crystal tiles will contain copies of the Lava tiles. And to add even more layout possibilities, we will be mirroring the art on the back of these tiles, thus creating new corridor and room setups in most of the reverse sides!

Adam Souza wrote: 4 days ago
Six double sided Lava/Crystal map tiles would give us enough of each to make entire maps of either. That would be great.
I would like to suggest that the art be mirrored, to create 6 different tiles. It wouldn't cost any more for additional origial art and would provide more diversity in the tiles.

Coincidence ?

I think not....

You're welcome people.

 adamsouza wrote:

Thiago Aranha wrote:
On a related note, following backers' suggestions we have decided that the back of the Lava tiles will contain copies of the Crystal tiles, and the back of the Crystal tiles will contain copies of the Lava tiles. And to add even more layout possibilities, we will be mirroring the art on the back of these tiles, thus creating new corridor and room setups in most of the reverse sides!

Adam Souza wrote: 4 days ago
Six double sided Lava/Crystal map tiles would give us enough of each to make entire maps of either. That would be great.
I would like to suggest that the art be mirrored, to create 6 different tiles. It wouldn't cost any more for additional origial art and would provide more diversity in the tiles.

Coincidence ?

I think not....

You're welcome people.

Your shoulder okay? I mean patting yourself on the back can really hurt .

But they were all great suggestions, just had to reality check you so your ego doesn't get too big.

That's what the smiley face was for. I figured I'd take credit for it before any else did.

Although, I scanned through the posts from the update and I didn't see anyone else mention it. There is no way I'm going to read through the general comments. That place makes a bad day here look like a walk in the park.

You want tiles, they got tiles



The Tiles Set Optional Buy contains all the Massive Darkness tiles, for you to create any dungeon layout you can dream of, with the possibility of some truly epic maps. This set contains 15 double-sided game tiles, including the same 9 tiles from the Massive Darkness core box, as well as the 3 new Crystal Tiles and 3 new Lava Tiles. It will also contain a copy of the 'Crystal and Lava' campaign booklet.





Sicarius is a very straightforward assassin. He studies his target, finding the best way to take it down, then executes an unbelievably precise attack that kills them before they can utter a sound. His melee attacks are completely lethal, automatically dealing an extra Wound and an extra Hit. His recommended Bloodmoon Assassin class may give those attacks an extra automatic Hit, adding up to +2 Hits and +1 Wound on every Melee attack!

$110K for that...

...OK!

And so begins the 'sprint' of the Final Four days!

 Alpharius wrote:
$110K for that...

...OK!

And so begins the 'sprint' of the Final Four days!

At least the calf/ankle area on the actual model looks better than the picture.

But yea the last several SG's have been lackluster imo.

Hoping to see something else I like before it ends *shrug*

I'm sure that they've got something...


...(puts on sunglasses) massive planned for the last two days.

 Alpharius wrote:
I'm sure that they've got something...


...(puts on sunglasses) massive planned for the last two days.

I'm afraid your humor is too dark for me.

 adamsouza wrote:
That's what the smiley face was for. I figured I'd take credit for it before any else did.

Although, I scanned through the posts from the update and I didn't see anyone else mention it. There is no way I'm going to read through the general comments. That place makes a bad day here look like a walk in the park.

I would of also bro +1 exalted

Interesting that there's basically no final bump so far. No closing buzz to make a big "U" shape like in other projects.

I wouldn't expect a final bump until the 48 hour warning messages go out in 14 hours time.

24 million initial estimate?

Sounds goofy now but one day a table top project will hit it.

 Moopy wrote:
24 million initial estimate?

Sounds goofy now but one day a table top project will hit it.

It's not really an estimate, just a projection based on that day's numbers.

next Stretch Goal is tired of hiding under a bridge, and now wants to join the battle!





The Low Troll is a resilient brute. What it lacks in intelligence, it makes up for in strength and stamina. It wields its heavy hammer with little skill, but if it hits you, it's gonna hurt. The real trick, however, is putting the Low Troll down for good. Even when you think you've dealt it the killing blow, the Low Troll just seems to be too dumb to realize it, and keeps fighting anyway. Whenever it is supposed to be eliminated, you must roll three Yellow dice. If any Bams are rolled, the Low Troll remains in the game with 1 Health!



a nice looking troll

but I still want another Mob Box, paid or free

Aeneades wrote:
I wouldn't expect a final bump until the 48 hour warning messages go out in 14 hours time.

Exactly!

The 'U' shape comes from the first two days and the last two days, typically.

But that's also 'old KS' math - not sure what will happen now, especially with this campaign which, while quite good, feels....different vs. a 'typical' CMON KS.

Curses, I am liking approximately half the new stretch goals we see, which is keeping me almost precisely in the middle of this here fence.

In other news that troll is lovely!

It is kind of annoying - and funny - that CMON is trolling us with that latest stretch goal.

And not just because it is a $130K stretch goal amount, or because it is a troll!

Hail Lightbringers!

Oh, you thought this was an Optional Buy update? Sorry, we're still in Troll mode here, as we're working our way to unlock the Low Troll!

This was from an update sent about 2 hours after the Troll stretch was announced - those crazy kidders!

Here be Lizards - so last minute they aren't sculpted yet.

The Enemy Box: Reptisaurians contains:

1 Reptisaurian Warriors Boss figure
6 Reptisaurian Warriors Minion figures
1 Reptisaurian Blowgunners Boss figure
12 Reptisaurian Blowgunners Minion figures
1 Reptisaurian Agent figure
1 large Reptisaurus Rex figure
13 cards

Sorry Highlord; I couldn't ruin the surprise

Aeneades wrote:
I wouldn't expect a final bump until the 48 hour warning messages go out in 14 hours time.

Actually, in most cases, for a CMoN KS, the thing starts to climb 3 or 4 days before the end, although it's most visible in the final 48.

For this one to go so close to the wire is unusual.

Highlords will now Officially begin to Highlord it up in here!

Happy to see another Minion type - very happy!

I think this one needs another Minion freebie to really get people jumping on during the Final 48 though.

I'm assuming if this had zoomed up like BP, the Lizardmen or Ratlings would have been SG freebies.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm assuming if this had zoomed up like BP, the Lizardmen or Ratlings would have been SG freebies.

Exactly how I feel. I also think they put the current SG's in the wrong order. The tile stuff should have been early on imo. Not near the end when it was already slowing down.

Anyway lizards seem cool enough. But like the rats Ill wait and grab them later maybe. Hopefully a bunch of other people buy them and drive us past some SG's though *poke*

I wanted more Mob and they delivered reptiloids, so I'm a happy backer

pledge raised!

I'll accept another set free if they really want to give one though!

Damn my hangover,migraine, and jet lag.

LIZARDS.

...except no lizard hero.

I will forgive them for now!

Back to recuperating!

YES! Lizardmen or draconian creatures are a must for a dungeon crawl. I too agree there should be a lizardmen or dragonborn hero. If they don't make one, I'll use the armored fella with twin axes in place of the knight with two swords from the core set.

Kudos cmon and gg... kudos. Now I need a second mortgage lol

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm assuming if this had zoomed up like BP, the Lizardmen or Ratlings would have been SG freebies.

This would be an incorrect assumption.

I'm glad Highlord posted... I was sincerely worried for his heart-health when I saw the update in my inbox. :-p

In his honor, Seraphon shall also hit the table today. Meanwhile, that add-on box, in multiples is now the dirt-cheapest way to make a Kings of War Lizard army, ever. :-p

That troll is so oldschool and awesome! I've pledged for a game now (mostly for Wehrkind but I'll find a use for a few of these sweet monsters!).

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Aeneades wrote:
I wouldn't expect a final bump until the 48 hour warning messages go out in 14 hours time.

Actually, in most cases, for a CMoN KS, the thing starts to climb 3 or 4 days before the end, although it's most visible in the final 48.

For this one to go so close to the wire is unusual.

Probably a case of most interested people having backed in the first day or two. Gaming KS from established players especially but also in general have been getting more and more front-loaded in the last year.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I'm assuming if this had zoomed up like BP, the Lizardmen or Ratlings would have been SG freebies.

CMON know exactly what they're doing. I don't think any probable freebies have suddenly become paid add-one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
That troll is so oldschool and awesome! I've pledged for a game now (mostly for Wehrkind but I'll find a use for a few of these sweet monsters!).

It's very much a Perry Troll (who also skipped Leg Day, bigtime). Funny we don't give CMON any gak about it the same way we do Mantic, eh?

Quite frankly, I'm not huge on the particular WOK? big body tiny legs aesthetic here.

 Azazelx wrote:
Funny we don't give CMON any gak about it the same way we do Mantic, eh?

Same way nobody gives Mierce any gak about running half a dozen concurrent KS projects but as soon as Mantic starts one while fulfilling another everyone slags them off

Trolls always have longer arms than legs - GW river trolls, etc. It's not always a good design choice but I think it works well for this model.

That guy is straight up a old-school GW stone troll. That is why we love them over the Mantic ones. Intentional Nostalgia over backup sculptors who can't follow concept art and lack anatomy lessons.

http://the-lost-and-the-damned.664610.n2.nabble.com/file/n6500117/93-36_copy.jpg

Sure. Thing is, that troll is the exception, rather than the rule. The problem is that the the non-trolls also have troll-like anatomy.

 Azazelx wrote:
Funny we don't give CMON any gak about it the same way we do Mantic, eh?

I thought we gave Mantic sh*t because of their inconsistent sculpts, broken miniatures, tiles with thumbprints, running more KS projects than they could handle, $20 for an empty box, poorly written advanced rules (boardgamers only), dumping KS games on the OLGS, and stocky mildly hydroencephalic zombie survivors living in uncanny valley.

ced1106 wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Funny we don't give CMON any gak about it the same way we do Mantic, eh?

I thought we gave Mantic sh*t because of their inconsistent sculpts, broken miniatures, tiles with thumbprints, running more KS projects than they could handle, $20 for an empty box, poorly written advanced rules (boardgamers only), dumping KS games on the OLGS, and stocky mildly hydroencephalic zombie survivors living in uncanny valley.

You forgot random and unexplained material changes too. I am pretty sure of what to expect from CMoN board game plastic so consistency in material is not a concern for me.

Troll is in and the Overseer is next -

SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Funny we don't give CMON any gak about it the same way we do Mantic, eh?

Same way nobody gives Mierce any gak about running half a dozen concurrent KS projects but as soon as Mantic starts one while fulfilling another everyone slags them off

I'd be doing just that if I wasn't staying out of the Maelstrom/Rob Lane KS threads out of respect for those who are enthusiastic about that particular form of gambling...

That Overseer - seriously awesome!

I do love the two Cthuluhu-esque models in this one...

And I can't wait to see what CMON's got in store for the final 48.

Pledging is now accelerating to the close.


I wonder how high it will go before closing.

Wow, I didn't like the concept art but that sculpt is awesome!

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Pledging is now accelerating to the close.

Spoiler:

[img]http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/coolminiornot/massive-darkness/dailypledges.png[/img

So, pretty much as usual?

Are you back in now?

I'm still saying $3 to $4M - unless they unlock a few more Minions as freebies...

I might put a buck in for the updates and PM access, although I really don't "need" it.

It's worth at least a buck now - and maybe a lot more later!

The Overseer reminds me a bit of the Grell:



...with a touch more Lovecraft!

The tally so far:



With Optional Add-ons:



...and I'm sure a lot more to come.

nkelsch wrote:
That guy is straight up a old-school GW stone troll. That is why we love them over the Mantic ones. Intentional Nostalgia over backup sculptors who can't follow concept art and lack anatomy lessons.

http://the-lost-and-the-damned.664610.n2.nabble.com/file/n6500117/93-36_copy.jpg

Pretty sure I called it as a Perry troll. I'm pretty familiar with them, myself.

https://azazelx.wordpress.com/2015/09/13/citadel-stone-troll-with-axe-1992/



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ced1106 wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Funny we don't give CMON any gak about it the same way we do Mantic, eh?

I thought we gave Mantic sh*t because of their inconsistent sculpts, broken miniatures, tiles with thumbprints, running more KS projects than they could handle, $20 for an empty box, poorly written advanced rules (boardgamers only), dumping KS games on the OLGS, and stocky mildly hydroencephalic zombie survivors living in uncanny valley.

That too. It's quite a list. You forgot a bunch of stuff as well, but that's for another thread.

I thought they were trolling me with their troglodytes.. Now I see they were trolling me with their troll and their lizardodytes!

Out of curiousity.. how does a species without lips use a weapon that relies on lips?

Overseer is funded - where is our next SG?

OK, just dropped my $300 into the ring. Hopefully they'll start to bother about updating backers of The Others again soon.

 Azazelx wrote:
OK, just dropped my $300 into the ring. Hopefully they'll start to bother about updating backers of The Others again soon.

It's on the boat. Expected by end of Aug barring any customs delays.

Latest update dropped - playable Ogre hero!

$170K stretch goal though...

The stretch goal does include the hero and a new class (with pad) so I don't mind it too much in this instance.

In spite of what his name might suggest, Lil'Ned is big, very big (he's only little to other ogres). His size doesn't just mean he's extremely strong, but it also gives him amazing reach when swinging his sledgehammer. His melee attacks are able to target enemies standing one zone away from his own! And when those hits land, they land with a thud. His melee attacks always get an automatic hit, and his free Bonecrusher class skill is able to knock his targets to the ground in case he rolls a Bam.







Bonecrushers are designed after bouncers and brutish bodyguards. Their Class Sheet fits their name, as they are fully oriented toward Melee attacks! They have access to classic Skill Lines adding Attack dice and allowing re-rolls. They also have access to more specific Skill Lines aimed toward taunting Enemies (effectively drawing aggro to themselves) and stunning them in Melee Combat. This latter Skill is especially important, as it turns Bonecrushers into living battering rams very early in the game.

As their career progresses, Bonecrushers learn to trigger Melee Enchantments more often (thus stunning more and more Enemies), and enhance their damage potential. They also develop an interesting feature with the ability to lower their foes’ Defense pool (without the need to go into Shadow Mode), thus maxing their own offensive potential and negating Defense Enchantments their victims could trigger.

All in all, Bonecrushers are the violent offsprings of Pit Fighter Berserkers and Bloodmoon Nightrunners: they run into the fray like behemoths, smashing the weak and stunning the strong into submission.



And yes, Lil'Ned's Survivor ID card will be part of the Black Plague Crossover Set.

For the Darkness is Massive, and full of terrors!

170k? O.o
It's almost like they WANT the campaign to slow down ...

Mutter wrote:
170k? O.o
It's almost like they WANT the campaign to slow down ...

Its just that they have a set amount of stuff they are willing to give you, they adjust based on how successful the campaign is.

If it was getting money dumped at it even faster it would be higher yet, if it was getting less they would be lower.

I dont like it either personally. But.. it does prevent them from running out of things to offer. The only real questionable thing at this point is whether or not the rats/lizards could have been SG's if it was doing really well, maybe. Or they just woulda pushed the SG price points even higher and they always woulda been addons *shrug*


Anyway, based on current SG gaps, Im guessing 3.1 3.3 3.5 would all be very possible next ones, Not sure how much past 3.5 Im expecting this to go, So hopefully some good stuff in the next 3. (and that it goes higher than that anyway!)

This campaign had its second best funding day yesterday, so it is still probably on track to end between $3.5M and $4M.

It all depends on those stretch goals and making the deal 'too good to resist NOW' vs. 'Pretty Good, but better at Retail'!

I think it is already too good to pass up now, but another Minion box included in the pledge?

Then it becomes too good to pass up for...most?!?

Mutter wrote:
170k? O.o
It's almost like they WANT the campaign to slow down ...

I think it's been said before, but you have to think about this mathematically to understand why they increase the gaps between stretch goals like this. The more backers that join equals more free stuff CMON has to provide. This increases exponentially every time either a new backer joins or a new SG is reached. It's all about managing their costs.

Watched the gameplay vids, as I was still on the fence, and... I'm out.

In 15 min of play they were still fighting the first monsters in the first room, and it sure looked like all their actions were basically "walk up to monster, hit monster in melee." I want interesting choices, every turn, for every hero, and I want a game that takes significantly less time to play than D&D, if I'm buying a dungeon bash game. Minis are a good deal but I have Bones III on the way.

The Overseer and Nightmare Thing have my attention. Otherwise, most of the other sculpts aren't to my taste. It's interesting that they decided to go more Japanese anime with their oversized weapons on this than they did in Black Plague. That remark might inspire some of you to challenge me on that, but seriously, compare them. You don't even need to look at Lord Tusk, just average characters with swords in Black Plague vs. Massive Darkness - the Black Plague weapons mostly look pretty reasonably proportioned, the Massive Darkness ones not so much.

It's also too bad that Massive Darkness couldn't come up with a plastic character board as elegant as Black Plague's. I get that Massive Darkness is dealing with more variables, so it requires a more complex board with more peg holes, which is harder to integrate with the player card (which is why the two sit side by side, rather than fitting one into the other). But I do love Black Plague's way of putting all the info and cards in one handy place. To do the same, Massive Darkness would have needed larger plastic player boards, maybe the size of a sheet of paper, say. Personally, I think that would have been awesome. Maybe they'll move towards that in a future game. The whole plastic dashboard thing CMON is doing is genius and long overdue for adventure boardgames with loot, skills, life, and other character data to track. Maybe it'll catch on and become an industry standard? It definitely makes going back to messier systems look very unappealing.

Black Plague is great, but I'm starting to wonder if I'm playing it wrong. It seems a little too challenging at the moment - I love games where I can lose, but wins have been scarce - and micromanaging all the zombies that end up on the board by the 2nd half of the game is tremendously time consuming. Which actually leads me to a pertinent question: is Massive Darkness going to have similar amounts of enemies on the board, or will their hordes be smaller? Zombicide is leading us to struggle to fit 20+ zombies on a single square by game's end (and substituting tokens to make it work).

I only have the base game of Black Plague and 2 guest artists I picked up off ebay. The game felt very easy, and then a luck draw of a repulse spell, and our ranged character got dual wield repeater crossbows. It got boring real fast when we spent more time just pushing large hordes of zombies from one tile to another.

I have a feeling Massive Darkness looks to be the same, im hoping not, and at $120 for just the base game, I'll be ok with that.

Zombicide isn't supposed to have that many zombies in the first place - you're supposed to be killing them as they appear, and then getting the heck outta there!

MD likely won't have as many monsters running around, as they're not adding so many extra minions, instead concentrating on Roaming Monsters and Heroes.

I suspect that these games work better when played with some focus, rather than a giant kitchen sink of everything released to date.

Overseer Blog - http://monster-zer0.blogspot.ie/2016/07/massive-darkness-overseer.html

Again another of Jason's own designs that wasn't even commissioned by GG.

The overseer will be a perfect boss for a D&D quest I have planned with lots of Grell and other crazy Aberrations. (I have some of the actual grell models from the D&D boardgame and they're much smaller so would be good minions)

I gotta say.. I have some Skaven.. I have some lizard people.. but I like that these are both off of a whole different mindset than GW clones or other lather rinse repeat designs we've seen before. Yeah, they do kind of have a certain look that is a bit same-y next to other MD figures but I don't see that as a bad thing so long as you're a fan of that style

For anyone looking to take their D&D session physical, you can't beat this. Bones is fine, but the material has some issues and many of the sculpts are dated and disjointed.

These models are like a perfect DM toolkit. Perfect variety and male/female heroes, Mooks with casters and commanders in a bunch of races in numbers which warrant murdering and monsters which can fill any campaign.

If this was on the table against bones 1 from a mini perspective, I think I would have rather had these sculpts in this material.

Anyone have a link to a pledge calc?

nkelsch wrote:
For anyone looking to take their D&D session physical, you can't beat this.

Bones is fine, but the material has some issues and many of the sculpts are dated and disjointed.

These models are like a perfect DM toolkit.

IIRC, D&D is on 1" grid, so you'd have to address the tiles if you wanted to use them directly.

To be fair, CMoN's bendy PVC/PU plastic isn't exactly the best compared to hard HIPS, but I would agree that it's clearly better than the extra-bendy stuff in Bones!

For $150, it's not a bad sandbox. It has good variety of heroes and monsters, although I'd rather have gotten the rats and lizards over the cavemen and dorfs -- I like my monsters non-human whereever possible. Being underground, it's a little disappointing not to have not-Drow. And being a dungeon crawler, it's hugely disappointing not to have any sort of dragon, not even a hatchling / youngling.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
For anyone looking to take their D&D session physical, you can't beat this.

Bones is fine, but the material has some issues and many of the sculpts are dated and disjointed.

These models are like a perfect DM toolkit.

IIRC, D&D is on 1" grid, so you'd have to address the tiles if you wanted to use them directly.

To be fair, CMoN's bendy PVC/PU plastic isn't exactly the best compared to hard HIPS, but I would agree that it's clearly better than the extra-bendy stuff in Bones!

For $150, it's not a bad sandbox. It has good variety of heroes and monsters, although I'd rather have gotten the rats and lizards over the cavemen and dorfs -- I like my monsters non-human whereever possible. Being underground, it's a little disappointing not to have not-Drow. And being a dungeon crawler, it's hugely disappointing not to have any sort of dragon, not even a hatchling / youngling.

You can just measure in 1" increments.. once you can remember that 1" =~ 5' translating to direct measure isn't that hard. If you're playing DDM then yeah.. you kinda need the grids.

That said.. it looks like Secret Weapon, Reaper, and Dark Arts are teaming up to do PVC dungeon tiles.. so add those to this and wowzers..

When I wrote it, I was thinking less DDM and more D&D Tabletop Wargame (i.e. 4E).

But yeah, once could measure . Or overlay grids for DDM.

Or make your own maps.

I'll probably throw a buck in tomorrow to see where Story Mode goes.

They clearly like ogres





Graz & Prug prove that two heads are indeed better than one. They have all the crushing strength natural to ogres, but having two heads means they're never caught off-guard. They never lose Defense when attacked by a hero in Shadow Mode. Plus, if one head is knocked out, the other just keeps on controlling the body, so Graz & Prug can never be stunned.

A wild Ettin appears!

Unless Massive Darkness expands to outdoor environments, or really, really large rooms, a Dragon probably doesn't make much sense.

But I still want one!

Ogre is pretty cool. Not sure if I would have liked him more with only one head, or the fact that he has two makes him more interesting of a model.

As far as dragon... well I think thatll be the expansion down the road. Im actually starting to get a little worried about something "big and awesome" happening before it ends. Im still thinking 2 SG's after this ogre is all that is *likely* to be suprassed.

Hope Im wrong though.

Young Dragonets / Dragonlings would fit fine.

Thiago has said point blank no dragons so I really doubt we'll see anything along those lines

that's next time

If we can have a zillion Ogres, we can have multiple Dragons. Just sayin'

Back in for a $. Hope I can stretch my ramen noodles packs further

Anyone in the us got enough experience with cmon KS's to have an idea what were probably looking at for a shipping cost with this many SG's? Just asking about the basic pledge for now nothing added on.

As Thiago has said, there are no dragons planned for this campaign.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xevv wrote:
Anyone in the us got enough experience with cmon KS's to have an idea what were probably looking at for a shipping cost with this many SG's? Just asking about the basic pledge for now nothing added on.

In PA you should probably expect from $12-$16

That depends on where you are. For California, I'm expecting $25-30

Black Plague was $30 to Cali

That's why I see this as at $150 shipped, taking it squarely out of the "impulse buy" category.

cincydooley wrote:As Thiago has said, there are no dragons planned for this campaign.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 xevv wrote:
Anyone in the us got enough experience with cmon KS's to have an idea what were probably looking at for a shipping cost with this many SG's? Just asking about the basic pledge for now nothing added on.

In PA you should probably expect from $12-$16

Good enough for me.

JohnHwangDD wrote:That depends on where you are. For California, I'm expecting $25-30

Black Plague was $30 to Cali

That's why I see this as at $150 shipped, taking it squarely out of the "impulse buy" category.

Yea I get that, its why I was trying to ballpark the final cost a little more. I like a fair bit of the stuff and its somewhere between good and better than good value. But the simple truth is I just dont need it. I dunno Ill probably end up with it even if that super tempting end of campaign item doesnt appear. *shrug* I have no self restraint

In Penn, you're probably OK to budget $15. I could see you at a "worst case" of $20, but I really doubt it'll be that high for PA.

Honestly, I'm seriously wondering if I should just hold out for MD2, which should have the Dragon that I want.

Yea looks like 20 should cover it for me for sure. found someone in that thread in PA who got BP for 17.

I feel like Im in such a small minority, I'm perfectly fine not seeing a dragon.Im actually kind of glad. Ive already got way too many of them from various places over the last 2 decades.

Plus nothing is going to top the old forge world fire dragon imo

I totally agree that not all games need dragons. I just think it would have been nice for this one. Even if we're definitely not getting one. Because... reasons.

So if you're no longer interested (again), and lack of dragons is a downer, and shipping is too expensive, and the final nail in the coffin...

..see you in the Robotech RPG Tactics thread then?