I always thought troglodytes to be more reptilian like the lizard men from land of the lost. The figs are nice, and can be repurposed easily enough. I think they may fit well with my bear clan figs from Blood Rage.
Definitely getting a 13th warrior vibe, maybe we will get a not-Antonio Banderas hero as a stretch goal.
I actually like those hobo dudes. Two poses for the mob would be better, but whatever, still better than sculpted chests or another wandering monster (that s not a Weretiger looking like Rei from Breath of Fire 3).
Well so far we are at 121 figs not counting the 6 pillars and 15 chests, so the value is definitely here. I just got my ZBP pledge (knight+2 add ons) $200 with shipping and got 215 figs, so we're almost at same dollar to dollar value already. I'll wait for the elemental a till retail most likely, but I have to keep reminding myself we are still in the first week of this campaign and everything else is sauce.
Wish list, not in any order
More dice, I don't like to share More tiles, bigger dungeons
More mobs, more variety
A character creator plan, to use existing figs.
Wish list, not in any order
More dice, I don't like to share More tiles, bigger dungeons
More mobs, more variety
A character creator plan, to use existing figs.
If zombicide is any guide to what we'll get
Dice are very likely.
More tiles, as in new tiles and not the ones already in the box, probably isn't going to happen.
More tiles, as in a tile pack of the ones already in the box is possible, although I wouldn't be suprised if they don't. I don't see them sell very well, and it's almost always a better deal to just get a second starter box, when you factor in all the extras of everything else you get doing that.
More mobs seems likely. We already got the Troglodytes.
A character creator seems unlikely. Not only are they insanely easy to custom, but it would be unprecedented, and possibley detrimental to their sales.
It appears that MD characters only have 2 abilities, everything esle is based on the class you choose. So if you have a minaiture you want to use, just pick two abilites from the book and you should be good to go !!
I especially like (having spent ages converting Blood Rage minis so they look vaguely different from each other) how easy they should be to convert. Both arms are well out from the body, and head swaps should be pretty easy too.
The 121 figs would be a no-brainer at $100+$20S&H. At $120+20S&H, I'm still waiting for at least another couple dozen figures to unlock.
I agree on the dice, which I also wished for. The business of passing dice like a peasant gets old, fast.
We'll have 9 tiles, which should be plenty big. The demo showed nearly an hour to clear 1 tile, so 9 hours is a very long game. Even if it's only 40 mins, that's still 6 hours, excluding setup/teardown.
Extra mobs will be great. 2 Hobgoblins, 2 Orcs, 2 Chaos Dorfs, Cavemen so far, so expect another flavor of Cavemen. I assume there will also be Zombie (BP) and Viking (BR) rules.
I also assume Black Orcs and/or Savage Orcs to complete the greenskin forces, and then hopefully, we'll see other species added. I like the idea of Lizardmen. Also Kobolds. And Beastmen. And especially Demons. Drow are always a good choice, now that we've got the High Elf.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The 121 figs would be a no-brainer at $100+$20S&H. At $120+20S&H, I'm still waiting for at least another couple dozen figures to unlock.
I agree on the dice, which I also wished for. The business of passing dice like a peasant gets old, fast.
We'll have 9 tiles, which should be plenty big. The demo showed nearly an hour to clear 1 tile, so 9 hours is a very long game. Even if it's only 40 mins, that's still 6 hours, excluding setup/teardown.
Extra mobs will be great. 2 Hobgoblins, 2 Orcs, 2 Chaos Dorfs, Cavemen so far, so expect another flavor of Cavemen. I assume there will also be Zombie (BP) and Viking (BR) rules.
I also assume Black Orcs and/or Savage Orcs to complete the greenskin forces, and then hopefully, we'll see other species added. I like the idea of Lizardmen. Also Kobolds. And Beastmen. And especially Demons. Drow are always a good choice, now that we've got the High Elf.
I suspect we'll see all that - and more! - before this campaign is over.
After all, it isn't even a week old yet!
I like the idea of Kobolds - Lizardmen - (Non-Goat) Beastmen too!
The cave dudes look great, especially the elder guy with flaming torch. You keep seeing them tribal elders in the movies, but, finally, someone's made a miniature of one!
Still hoping for lizardmen, though. I have some from Reaper which aren't too bad.
A cleric class WILL be in this campaign, eventually.
No painted samples will be show during the campaign.
Loot is reset from quest to quest. Skills you've acquired remain, but the quest needs to reach its level for you to be able to use it. It creates a nice "upwards zigzagging" power increase that makes each quest exciting, and the overall campaign involving.
That seems...odd.
You find a magic sword and then...misplace it next time out?
No, the numbers don't rise that much during the PM. Most people get what they initially pledge for.
That's not how I do CMON campaigns!
Probably 20 sheets per pad (still haven't decided whether making them double-sided would be a good or bad thing). I don't think we'll sell separate packs of sheets, but we'll make print PDFs available for download.
Spells in MD? Well, not quite in the same way as BP has straight-up Spell Cards. MD is more about Magic Weapons that have Enchantments they can unleash. There are a few cases of direct spells, though, like Elias' Special Skill "Zap".
If there's one thing you shouldn't worry about is a shortage of equipment cards. There are 5 levels of them, each of them with 35 cards. On top of that you have 18 starting equipment cards and 6 artifact cards. I believe that comes to a whopping 188 treasure cards!
Also please keep in mind this is a month-long campaign, and we are only in the 4th day. We need to pace ourselves. In time, there will be other kinds of Stretch Goals, other optional buys, rules, in-depth updates, etc. We have only started to explore the darkness.
So you find an uber-sword and lose it by the next dungeon, as well as forgetting any abilities you've learned until a certain point in the current quest, at which point you remember "oh yeah, I know this awesome move, I should probably do it".
The concept seems counter intuitive from a Role Playing persepective, but from a board game's balance perspective it's the right call.
Using Zombicide for comparison, if you luck into an ideal equipment combination, it's all gravy for the rest of that game. Taking that same combo into all subsequent games in that campaign would make it too easy.
Also, remember that if you adamantly disagree with that, it is incredibely easy to remedy with a house ruling that you keep your equipment between games.
That is a good point, adamsouza - we can certainly try that out and see how it goes.
I can see how it can be potentially game-breakingly too good in a campaign, but on the other hand, it would suck to lose that magic weapon you got when you killed the Boss in the last mission!
We only live a few towns apart - I'll bring my fully leveled up and kitted out Massive Darkness character over to your game night next year and we can see how it plays out!
Any thoughts on if CMON will react to the [alleged] disappointment with the Elementals Box and offer something a bit more...attractive with the next add-on?
As a boardgamer, it is super frustrating to play 2 missions of AQ this week, and next week have a new player and others drop, or go from 3 to 4 players.
We can progress a story, swap people out and every game is from scratch? Yes please!
This isn't designed to replace my D&D campaigns over the next 12 weeks. It is designed to toss dice and have fun on Board game night, and if we play it next week, we can enjoy a new quest with no one being 'too late' to join in.
Forced Progression is not a 'good thing'. MYTH went through this same thing where people were all butthurt over lack of forced progression, but after playing it a lot, the game is really good without it. We can drop in and start playing at any point.
Any thoughts on if CMON will react to the [alleged] disappointment with the Elementals Box and offer something a bit more...attractive with the next add-on?
Honestly, I don't they will. It looks like a set a price point in their minds for $10 for a wandering Monster and I think they'll stick to their guns about it. This kickstarter will fund them either way, and completionists will buy them in any case.
nkelsch wrote: As a boardgamer, it is super frustrating to play 2 missions of AQ this week, and next week have a new player and others drop, or go from 3 to 4 players.
We can progress a story, swap people out and every game is from scratch? Yes please!
This isn't designed to replace my D&D campaigns over the next 12 weeks. It is designed to toss dice and have fun on Board game night, and if we play it next week, we can enjoy a new quest with no one being 'too late' to join in.
Forced Progression is not a 'good thing'. MYTH went through this same thing where people were all butthurt over lack of forced progression, but after playing it a lot, the game is really good without it. We can drop in and start playing at any point.
Sounds as if you'll be happy then?
I was, however, hoping for more. But yes, this will be more 'boardgame' and less 'roleplaying'.
Alpharius wrote:Any thoughts on if CMON will react to the [alleged] disappointment with the Elementals Box and offer something a bit more...attractive with the next add-on?
Honestly, I don't they will. It looks like a set a price point in their minds for $10 for a wandering Monster and I think they'll stick to their guns about it. This kickstarter will fund them either way, and completionists will buy them in any case.
I tend to agree with you there.
(Case in point - I'm probably going to pick up the Elementals anyway!)
Well, i'm right there with you Alph, as you know. I really wanted this to have a proper RPG mode, and instead it looks like what I feared, which is a board-game with only the most rudimentary notion of "campaign".
I particularly hate the "forget skills... for a while" notion which just seems particularly stupid a thing to require SOOOOOO much suspension of disbelief.
As it stands, its roughly on par with Silver Tower for apparent depth, and while I did really enjoy that game a ton, I did hope at least one of the two would do something closer to original WHQ.
I agree that the "forget your skills" and "loose your equipment" seems lame. A progressive toughness increase in the adversaries rather than a game-to-game neutering of the players is much better, IMO. Give the monsters levels that coincide with player levels and have powerful equipment contribute to the total level score to balance things out.
Myrthe wrote: I agree that the "forget your skills" and "loose your equipment" seems lame. A progressive toughness increase in the adversaries rather than a game-to-game neutering of the players is much better, IMO. Give the monsters levels that coincide with player levels and have powerful equipment contribute to the total level score to balance things out.
I like that idea - but I'm worried that would be considered 'too complex' here...
I threw your comments up on the KS comments section for what it's worth!
Hmmm...
Alpharius just now
@ Thiago - can you confirm the 'mechanic' of losing items and temporarily forgetting skills between campaign missions?
Probably in for 'game balance' reasons, but still kinda lame and kills suspension of disbelief too...
Thiago Aranha - CMON 2 minutes ago
@Alpharius: Will get more into the campaign progression aspect of the game in an update coming the next few days.
I hope I'm not reading too much into that 'answer', but I'm thinking I not going to like the details!
Thiago Aranha - CMON 19 minutes ago
I'm leaving to chance whether there's an add-on today or not.
The Frost Dice are semi-translucent, with a cloudy interior and a little bit of glitter.
The Marble Dice mix a little bit of black to the main dice color to create a random marbled texture. Note that this set is a Kickstarter Exclusive and will not be available for general retail sale.
Nostromodamus wrote: So you find an uber-sword and lose it by the next dungeon, as well as forgetting any abilities you've learned until a certain point in the current quest, at which point you remember "oh yeah, I know this awesome move, I should probably do it".
Sounds weird...
Voltron Rules in effect! Like how each episode they farted around before getting into their lions before farting around until they form Voltron, then farting around even more before they finally call down the sword and stomp whatever monster they were fighting.
I'm pretty happy with a self-acknowledged boardgame -- I have dozens of RPG systems I could run if that was what I wanted. I'm not really a huge fan of mechanical-based character advancement in RPGs anyway (it is fraught with problems). My absolute ideal campaign is something more like the old Space Hulk Campaigns Book, where previous scenarios influence the current one (in terms of opposition, resources available, starting position, etc.) but where you don't expect to go from teen wizard to Gandalf in the course of a few weeks of play.
Myrthe wrote: I agree that the "forget your skills" and "loose your equipment" seems lame. A progressive toughness increase in the adversaries rather than a game-to-game neutering of the players is much better, IMO. Give the monsters levels that coincide with player levels and have powerful equipment contribute to the total level score to balance things out.
I thought that the reason the roaming monsters came with multiple cards was because they had a second level they could be used at to make them more suitable for leveled up heroes?
Alpharius wrote: Any thoughts on if CMON will react to the [alleged] disappointment with the Elementals Box and offer something a bit more...attractive with the next add-on?
How about the option to buy the custom dice that should have been thrown in as a Stretch Goal??
As was done in every single Zombicide before. I got a dozen bonus dice with Z2, and another dozen bonus dice with Z3. BP would have given me 6 more, but I didn't back it.
And we're getting *none* with MD?
Yeah, this is CMoN just fething milking the backers on top of the $120 buy-in.
Nostromodamus wrote: So you find an uber-sword and lose it by the next dungeon, as well as forgetting any abilities you've learned until a certain point in the current quest, at which point you remember "oh yeah, I know this awesome move, I should probably do it".
Sounds weird...
Voltron Rules in effect! Like how each episode they farted around before getting into their lions before farting around until they form Voltron, then farting around even more before they finally call down the sword and stomp whatever monster they were fighting.
Not a bad analogy - and I can freely admit to having that bother me even as a kid!
Myrthe wrote: I agree that the "forget your skills" and "loose your equipment" seems lame. A progressive toughness increase in the adversaries rather than a game-to-game neutering of the players is much better, IMO. Give the monsters levels that coincide with player levels and have powerful equipment contribute to the total level score to balance things out.
I thought that the reason the roaming monsters came with multiple cards was because they had a second level they could be used at to make them more suitable for leveled up heroes?
I think that might just be for the number of players in the game.
Nostromodamus wrote: So you find an uber-sword and lose it by the next dungeon, as well as forgetting any abilities you've learned until a certain point in the current quest, at which point you remember "oh yeah, I know this awesome move, I should probably do it"..
Sounds like those lazy plotlines where, after the heroes save the world in the previous story arc, we next see them all poor and in need of cash in the next episode.
I'm sure fans will find some way of toughening up the monsters. In zombicide, you have Survivors stronger than others, so can modify the zombie deck accordingly. With MD, you can use the more difficult 4-5 player monster against a 3-player party.
Unless you have an actual campaign (eg. Descent or HeroQuest), it's tough to design a game system that scales with the number of players *and* their "power levels". D&D does this with modules that tell you what levels should be playing it. Maybe CMON should have half the scenarios be standalone, and the other from a campaign?? Or CMON could release campaigns as a separate product or free download, possibly from another fan design competition. (EDIT: I'm defining campaign as we use it, not as how CMON is using it.)
I've tried staying active in the KS Comments section today, hoping to glean some more gameplay info from it but...
...yeah, no more!
I'm done!
It has to be one of the worst formats for...well, getting anything useful at all...that I've ever seen.
And it is filled to the brim with people spamming like hell, possibly in an effort to be noticed by CMON and...elevated somehow? Maybe get made into a miniature?
I think they did that before - and now we're all going to have to pay the price!
Almost at $1.3M, so hopefully some more interesting stretch goals soon...
It reminds me of playing the old D&D adventures from SSI on the PC way back in the day. You saved the kingdom but the next game starts and for some reason you end up passed out and wake up with all your items gone and have to start over.
Alpharius wrote: I've tried staying active in the KS Comments section today, hoping to glean some more gameplay info from it but...
...yeah, no more!
I'm done!
It has to be one of the worst formats for...well, getting anything useful at all...that I've ever seen.
And it is filled to the brim with people spamming like hell, possibly in an effort to be noticed by CMON and...elevated somehow? Maybe get made into a miniature?
I think they did that before - and now we're all going to have to pay the price!
One of those constantly spamming is the one who did the same in the Walking Dead All Out War Kickstarter and was rewarded for it with a zombie sculpted after him in the game. He is trying exactly the same thing this time around.
This campaigns Brian Blessed appears to be a Unicorn.
Fortunately, CMoN should have already finalized all of the stuff, so fan homages shouldn't be in play. But it is stupid, and I would hope CMoN can shut it down faster than the insistence on the Elementals.
Hmmm... well I will try to chime in with some constructive criticism.
First, I am a zombicide super fan, and have pledged for several copies of all GG/CMON games in the series or their similar games. I love the speed and ease of play, the gorgeous minis, art, etc. The best part is solo or coop play.
Zombicide was great, black plague was better. I was super excited for this as a dungeon crawl holds a lot of potential (and suggested cross compatability).
I liked the single pledge, and the price isn't bad considering there are a few very large figures. I was not a fan of the art, as it isnt their zombicide art. It is a copy of their wrath of kings art, which i am not a fan of - but can live with. However the stretch goals have practically stalled this campaign. I didn't mind the large gaps between goals, assuming they only had a limited amount and planned on raising a large sum of cash. However, many of the goals were more of the same, and there weren't many hero unlocks or things to spur large interest.
I think they would have done better to give a boss, minions, and cards as a single goal... maybe just with a higher dollar value between goals then. Otherwise folks see minute goals, sit and wait to see what else will be unlocked.
I was super excited but the campaign has slowed to a crawl. This is fixable! Bigger or better stretch goals please! More interesting add ons! How about an add on that gives cards to use all black plague heroes and zombie types? I would pay for that, and I'm sure others would too. A large dragon add on? You know all would pledge for that.
455_PWR wrote: I was super excited but the campaign has slowed to a crawl. This is fixable! Bigger or better stretch goals please! More interesting add ons! How about an add on that gives cards to use all black plague heroes and zombie types? I would pay for that, and I'm sure others would too. A large dragon add on? You know all would pledge for that.
CMoN has already ruled out Dragons, which is disappointing, because there is a LOT of money to be made selling Dragons as add-ons, even for those who won't ever play your game. It's like they don't understand Fantasy gaming...
The BP crossover is a given, they just haven't announced it. The thing is, with the way they bungled the dice, you might have to pay an extra $25 to get the BP crossover content.
The art has not struck me well either, and as 455 pointed out it is WOK art style, which I am not a fan of either. I'm still in because I know the value will eventually come, but I find myself thinking of limited hobby funds and saying "just wait for ZBP2".
And it is filled to the brim with people spamming like hell, possibly in an effort to be noticed by CMON and...elevated somehow? Maybe get made into a miniature?
I think they did that before - and now we're all going to have to pay the price!
And it is filled to the brim with people spamming like hell, possibly in an effort to be noticed by CMON and...elevated somehow? Maybe get made into a miniature?
I think they did that before - and now we're all going to have to pay the price!
I think that was Mantic and TWD?
CMoN has succumb to fanservice spam.
AQ:I had 'Sarya', who was a piece of random art used to sell add-ons which people wanted a hero of.
AQ;Masmorra had a pervert who kept spamming for sewers and sewer jacks, so the last stretch was a 'sewer' epic tile.
But this has become the norm in almost all KS it seems. People literally re-spam the same 'Make this!' over and over and over. What people don't realize is they want fanservice greymarket IP, but then don't want exclusives. The only reason we have Batman, Maleficant, Voldemort and Sheldon Cooper is because CMoN doesn't 'sell' them. They are free exclusives so it makes it harder to sue about.
I am kinda happy about the lack of blatant pop culture characters, and people who hate exclusives should be happy as most add-ons in recent campaigns seem to lack bundled exclusives to force the sale. If the Elementals box had an exclusive attached, people would be buying it regardless. So it shows exclusives do sell add-ons.
Also: I think the major reason we are not seeing dragons is because that is the logical IP for the expansion. Massive Darkness: Dragonwrath or something. They can fill it with kobolds, lizarmen, Snakemen, Dragonborn and so on and all the wandering monsters can be dragon/lizard themed. (Wyvern, Chimera, Dinosaur, Dragons, Wyrm, Snake, Basilisk, And so on) So I think they are intentionally keeping that genie in the bottle for now.
OK, I'm probably the only one who thinks this, but...
I pledged on this at the lowest level. Luckily for me this was the only level. I said I would not buy expansions or add-ons, because money is tight, but I really want this game--no, this is the game I wanted ZBP to be. I pledged on the the base game as first shown. I knew they'd throw in some stuff. i knew at some point my will would be tested. But if the total stalled where it it now it's hard not to see the value or that the campaign was successful. (Unless you keep comparing it to Zombicide.)
I think the guys at Guillotine were conservative. I don't see the same grand vision that Black Plague or the other Zombicide campaigns had out of the gate. And I'd rather they not cobble something together if they didn't have it planned before hand. It may be that this game was a cautious dip the toe in the dungeon crawl board game. They might not have been sure if there was any room left especially since BP ate a bunch of money in that market. The weak SG might be that GG and CMoN might not have a lot up their sleeve. It would be hard for me to think they had really cool stuff they were holding back until the $3M mark. No expansion out of the gate and small SGs stretched out. Seems they were worried MD might not ride on the coat tails of Zombicide.
Than again it could be other reasons for the perceived weak SGs.
nkelsch wrote: But this has become the norm in almost all KS it seems. People literally re-spam the same 'Make this!' over and over and over.
I am kinda happy about the lack of blatant pop culture characters, and people who hate exclusives should be happy as most add-ons in recent campaigns seem to lack bundled exclusives to force the sale. If the Elementals box had an exclusive attached, people would be buying it regardless. So it shows exclusives do sell add-ons.
Also: I think the major reason we are not seeing dragons is because that is the logical IP for the expansion. Massive Darkness: Dragonwrath or something. They can fill it with kobolds, lizarmen, Snakemen, Dragonborn and so on and all the wandering monsters can be dragon/lizard themed. (Wyvern, Chimera, Dinosaur, Dragons, Wyrm, Snake, Basilisk, And so on) So I think they are intentionally keeping that genie in the bottle for now.
Yes. We had this in the SDE:Legends KS; it was annoying.
I am glad there won't be stupid pop culture items, which become dated very quickly.
nkelsch wrote: But this has become the norm in almost all KS it seems. People literally re-spam the same 'Make this!' over and over and over.
I am kinda happy about the lack of blatant pop culture characters, and people who hate exclusives should be happy as most add-ons in recent campaigns seem to lack bundled exclusives to force the sale. If the Elementals box had an exclusive attached, people would be buying it regardless. So it shows exclusives do sell add-ons.
Also: I think the major reason we are not seeing dragons is because that is the logical IP for the expansion. Massive Darkness: Dragonwrath or something. They can fill it with kobolds, lizarmen, Snakemen, Dragonborn and so on and all the wandering monsters can be dragon/lizard themed. (Wyvern, Chimera, Dinosaur, Dragons, Wyrm, Snake, Basilisk, And so on) So I think they are intentionally keeping that genie in the bottle for now.
Yes. We had this in the SDE:Legends KS; it was annoying.
I am glad there won't be stupid pop culture items, which become dated very quickly.
So they're saving Dragons for MD2? Awesome. Not.
I think it would be better for CMoN if they had a lizard themed expansion rather than wait for MD2. Money now is worth more than money later. Making this campaign as big and successful as possible is the best way to ensure a sequel does well and it's not like they'll run out of stuff from the monstrous compendium to put in sequels to the game anytime soon.
I'm not fond of games using specialty dice, other than Herscape and Heroquest, so I wasn't thrilled to see this game using them, but two things just occured to while reading up on them. There is a hard cap of rolling three of any type. That is a big departure from Zombicide. Secondly, the 12 dice set for $12 is cheaper than the Zombicide dice have been (6 for $10), at least per die.
Also, since the dice are color coded we won't be getting a dozen different colored sets to choose from. That's the reasoning behind the marble and frost, because they can't change the colors.
The difference being that Zombicide, you can substitute ordinary d6s for the Zombicide dice. For MD, I think you basically need to use the custom dice.
Also, they absolutely can change the colors, if they use colored ink. They could do white dice with red / yellow / green / blue ink. Or black dice. Or grey dice. Or clear dice. As long as the ink is of the appropriate color.
JohnHwangDD wrote: The difference being that Zombicide, you can substitute ordinary d6s for the Zombicide dice. For MD, I think you basically need to use the custom dice.
You are correct.
My point was the zombicide dice had to be cheaper to produce, only having a single custom side, but cost twice as much, and they weren't as valuable since, yes, you could just use regular dice instead.
Also, they absolutely can change the colors, if they use colored ink. They could do white dice with red / yellow / green / blue ink. Or black dice. Or grey dice. Or clear dice. As long as the ink is of the appropriate color.
I wouldn't count on that, or even think it's a good idea. Colored specialty dice is about as dumbed down as you can get for a game. Dice of other colors is a completely different approach, they didn't take.
I'll be happy if they at least offer translucent dice. I don't care for the Frost or Marble myself. With 24 more days to go, I'm hoping they'll toss in a second set as freebie along the way.
The Zombicide dice use unique faces on all 6 sides:
I assume the per-dice price is higher, due to the lower volume sold.
While you might not like alternate dice, producing color on white (or whatever) is no more difficult than white (or whatever) on color. It is totally feasible.
Different coloured dice probably isn't something they will do since the dice are specifically colour coded in game - red and yellow for different strength hits, blue for defence.
Once they go into custom colour territory, it starts getting confusing in game. Different finishes like the marble and frosted dice can be done while keeping the colour coding.
Being color-coded does NOT preclude different colored dice.
I can have a set of white dice as follows:
- White dice with Red Swords (replaces red dice w/ white swords)
- White dice with Yellow Swords (replaces yellow dice w/ white swords)
- White dice with Green Shields (replaces green dice w/ white shields)
- White dice with Blue Shields (replaces blue dice w/ white shields)
Then a black set. Then a clear set.
Same color coding, and there is no reason to be confused.
It's not a matter of being feasible, it's a matter of it not really being a good idea. The color of the ink is no where near as easily instantly recognizable as the color of the dice from across a table.
Could you hand me 3 red dice ?
I don't see any red dice.
Those right there.
Those dice are White dude.
Yeah, but they have red ink !!
The entire point of extra dice is so that we each have our own dice, so we're not passing one set across the table. Nubs can use the original dice. I'll use the white dice. It's OK, I can handle it.
I think they can leave the extra custom dice like those for a third party because there won't be enough call for them. I just want to see more of the basic dice so there's no pass the dice please going on.
As for Zombicide dice, I have a ton of the red basic dice, but we have also added all the black basic dice from my multiple copies of Sedition Wars. We have enough for each of us to have 12+ dice in a 4 person game. We've ever only needed to utilize that on a hand full of occasions. We've never used the custom zombicide dice as I could see arguments over is the skull a 1 or a 6 .
Also the slow pace really isn't helping this project be massive. Somethings got to get moving shortly or this will be a really long month.
Also the slow pace really isn't helping this project be massive. Somethings got to get moving shortly or this will be a really long month.
Agreed. The troglodyte boss should get unlocked today and then hopefully CMoN reveals better stretch goals and add on otherwise the next 3 weeks are going to be very dull for the campaign.
While I never understood the "Don't touch mah dice' thought process, why do they need to be different?
If everyone needs 5 dice, why does it matter if you have 5 dice of different color opposed to 5 dice of the same color? The dice by me, rolled by me are my results. The same colored dice by you, rolled by you are your results.
In AQ:Masmorra, it at least made sense as there is a fixed dice pool size. No one will ever need more or less than 6 dice. But for games like this, the dice pool is variable and forever growing. Why the need for player-specific-designated dice opposed to just a massive pool people can keep for themselves?
Sure, Zombicide works just fine with plain black pips on white dice. It's just a bit more colorful and fun when each player can pick their "own" dice and have their own personal set to use. Just because.
Also, it does slow down play when players are passing dice around.
Played Warhammer Quest Silver tower, only had 5 purple dice we all had to take turns sharing. No way, we ended up in a knife fight and 3 of us in the hospital....
For those worried about 5 levels of chest stretch goals the contents only lists level 1 x30 and level 2 x4 so at most there would only be 1 more SG for the level 2s
Story Mode details
Massive Darkness is designed to be easy to get into and have fun – there are 10 Quests in the campaign, which at 1 hour+ each means it’s going to be difficult for most groups to sit through all 10 sessions together. You can pop in at any stage of the campaign and get all the fun of the levelling and monster slaying experience, even if your group can’t meet regularly. However, for the dedicated heroes amongst you, you’ll be happy to hear that we’re also including a Story Mode, which tweaks the balance and other aspects of the existing campaign so that heroes persist in a more constant fashion from Quest to Quest.
Story Mode features:
∙ Slower experience gain, heroes evolve over multiple adventures.
∙ All unlocked Skills are available at the start of each Quest, but Enemies are all the more dangerous.
∙ Equipment access and use is also scaled : Equipment cards can only be used if the Hero is powerful enough. The Inventory size is limited. Equipment cards also have a Gold value and may be sold and bought (with the merchant's markup, of course).
∙ The Story Mode also features a Town Phase. Heroes may buy and sell Equipment, heal and train.
This of course will require a truly committed group of players to see through to the end, and we look forward to seeing your tales of epic adventure in 2017! We will give you more information about the Story Mode as those rules are crystallized during the development process.
But even if you have 'your own dice' why do they need to be different from other people? Why not just have like 50 dice and let people grab a fist full to use?
Im not sure how I feel about the story mode. Was this well thought out and planned from the start, or is this rushed because everyone wanted it and they didnt think so..
Well, there's no rulebook WIP for story mode, so it's less developed and could be on the "back of a napkin" phase. If MD really is like Z, it's sandboxy enough to mod, and the GG folks have several years of Z experience to make design changes.
Can anyone read the Event cards in the rulebook? Wonder if there's a way to add the crazy old Warhammer Quest-style event cards to MD! (:
"Trap. Someone falls into it. This is not a brave way to die."
2 unlocks at $1.4M: Trogoldyte Agent & Bloodseeker Minotaur.
The horns on the minotaur make it look rather stupid. Actually, the entire sculpt is pretty bad. It boggles the mind how any sculptor can do such a bad job on a classic, archetypical monster like a minotaur.
I won't lie... I'm thrilled. The game is so far out that even if it was done as a response to fan desires, they still have plenty of time to make it work. Its an option, and options are terrific. If it turns out solid, I will be over the moon, but even knowings its there, there's a town phase, etc... is EXACTLY what I wished for.
I'm genuinely hoping they bake in an "ongoing" way to keep randomly generating plays for story-mode, even if you out-pace the challenge in time.
I won't lie... I'm thrilled. The game is so far out that even if it was done as a response to fan desires, they still have plenty of time to make it work. Its an option, and options are terrific. If it turns out solid, I will be over the moon, but even knowings its there, there's a town phase, etc... is EXACTLY what I wished for.
I'm genuinely hoping they bake in an "ongoing" way to keep randomly generating plays for story-mode, even if you out-pace the challenge in time.
I know - right?!?
I thought of you when I saw that 'Story Mode' announcement!
Did you catch the "Town Phase" reference too?!?
This has been a good day for the campaign - that announcement, and the new stretch goals too.
In unsurprising news CMoN still clearly hasn't hired a copy editor, so if you care about things like poor grammar and word choice that don't actually break the game please post suggestions in the rules preview update.
Now, I don't necessarily expect it, but i'd love a couple "paper" stretch-goals to augment story-mode during some campaign lulls, especially if they see a big response from fans to said campaign mode.
Things like more town events, more objectives for random dungeons, or modifiers which make dungeons somehow feel "different" than a previous run.
Since its all in the mists right now its a cost effective way to go, "we'll significantly bulk out how in depth we're willing to make this mode."
I guess my only other wish... slow down some on wandering miniboss types, and add more generic enemy groups. Though I expect other "expansion" add ones will check that box.
Minotaur is fantastic IMO. Nice bit of Paul Bonner referencing.
Themed groups would be high on my wishlist. It sounds like the mechanics wouldn't really work to tie a wandering monster in with an agent/group but it would be something I'd like to see especially in the context of Story Mode.
In our latest efforts to support FLGS, CMON is pleased to announce that for the first time we will be introducing a retail pledge option to our current Kickstarter Campaign.
As of Tuesday June 14th, and up till the end of the pledge manager, you, the retailer, will be able to be part of the Massive Darkness Campaign and receive the game and all unlocked stretch goals 2 weeks prior to the release date, which is expected to be summer of 2017.
Only retailers with a brick and mortar store in the USA are eligible to the retailer pledge.
The retail discount will be 40% off the Lightbringer pledge.
Retailer pledges will contain all the Stretch Goals unlocked during the campaign, and will be delivered at the same time as normal backers.
A commitment deposit of $100.00 is required for the bundle packs (6, 9 or 12). The balance will be due right before shipment.
Each retailer backer will be limited to 12 pledges at the most.
Please consult our Massive Darkness Kickstarter page and be part of this project. Please use email mdretailer@cmon.com to contact us with your order or any questions you may have.
I guess they feel they're doing it outside of the KS tos, but it seems a bit daft to risk offering 12 (when KS would limit things to 10), since they are limiting it anyway
* fwiw, I've seen other KS, including Reaper, have retailer pledge levels. Some KS will tell you to mail them directly for retailer terms.
* I know Wizards won't let some retailers sell outside of the USA, so there may be some sort of agreement with non-USA retailers and distributors that prohibits non-USA retailers from this retail pledge option. Or it could just be a pilot and they'll open retail pledges later. Or it could any sort of courier or customs-fee related issue that CMON doesn't want to deal with (yet).
The Minotaur reminds me of the log GW stone trolls .
Will we see an add on which has all the Troglodytes (minions, boss and agent) along with the Minotaur? Or will it be a couple heroes and the troglodytes?
highlord tamburlaine wrote: ...so how about them doors?
Looking over the rules, we need some doors up in here.
Official Massive Darkness doors. Not Zombicide ones.
I predict repacked Zombicide Black Plague doors, with pillars and treasure chests.
I'm just going to post this once, as I don't want to rain on everyone's parade.
But quite honestly, I think Cmon should ditch the cartoonish monster design and hire Jason Hendricks to do their sculpting, as well as executing their best monster sculpts (which he already does, for Black Plague and Blood Rage, among others.)
Zombicide Black Plague put out some really extraordinary monster sculpts. The Abominataur (which is the best large demon sculpt I've ever seen), the Abominarat, the Ablobination, the Abominatroll. Have a look at these if you get the chance, they're pretty amazing, and each one of them was not only sculpted but also designed by Hendricks himself. The Ablobination and Abominataur were actually sculpts he did on his own time and initiative, then showed to Cmon, who knew a good thing when they saw it and subsequently incorporated them into the Black Plague campaign (the BP concept artists did drawings / paintings of the sculpts after Hendricks submitted them, in fact, turning the usual flow of things completely around). Hendricks creatures are worlds more impressive and better designed than the Abominalpha, which Hendricks sculpted after someone else's cartoony concept drawing.
Having participated in Black Plague and been really wowed by the sculpts that came out of it (not just the monsters, either), I've found Massive Darkness really underwhelming so far. Hendricks is involved in Massive Darkness too (he sculpted the stone-chucking cyclops, not his design, but given his sculpting talent not surprisingly it's one of the best creature sculpts so far), so his creative input may find its way in sooner or later. I'm not disappointed, exactly, as I love Black Plague and don't need another game like Massive Darkness, but even from the peanut gallery, I'd like to see Cmon capitalize on their strengths more.
Vermonter wrote: I'm just going to post this once, as I don't want to rain on everyone's parade.
But quite honestly, I think Cmon should ditch the cartoonish monster design and hire Jason Hendricks to do their sculpting, as well as executing their best monster sculpts (which he already does, for Black Plague and Blood Rage, among others.)
Zombicide Black Plague put out some really extraordinary monster sculpts. The Abominataur (which is the best large demon sculpt I've ever seen), the Abominarat, the Ablobination, the Abominatroll. Have a look at these if you get the chance, they're pretty amazing, and each one of them was not only sculpted but also designed by Hendricks himself. The Ablobination and Abominataur were actually sculpts he did on his own time and initiative, then showed to Cmon, who knew a good thing when they saw it and subsequently incorporated them into the Black Plague campaign (the BP concept artists did drawings / paintings of the sculpts after Hendricks submitted them, in fact, turning the usual flow of things completely around). Hendricks creatures are worlds more impressive and better designed than the Abominalpha, which Hendricks sculpted after someone else's cartoony concept drawing.
Having participated in Black Plague and been really wowed by the sculpts that came out of it (not just the monsters, either), I've found Massive Darkness really underwhelming so far. Hendricks is involved in Massive Darkness too (he sculpted the stone-chucking cyclops, not his design, but given his sculpting talent not surprisingly it's one of the best creature sculpts so far), so his creative input may find its way in sooner or later. I'm not disappointed, exactly, as I love Black Plague and don't need another game like Massive Darkness, but even from the peanut gallery, I'd like to see Cmon capitalize on their strengths more.
Anyhow, critique done. Enjoy the KS.
I second all that you said . I just painted my abominarat this morning and the others have been primed and are awaiting their turn.
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see cards for Zombie Boss and Minions (BP Fatty and Walkers), Zombie Agent (Necromancer) and Zombie Roaming Monster (abomination). But miniatures, probably not.
Would be a nice incentive for people to also pick up Black Plague if they didn't already.
I don't mind the more cartoony aesthetics. Zombicide has it to some degree as well, and seems to be more on the interpretation of the sculptor. Looking at my Season 2 and Toxic City Mall stuff I can really see the influence.
I agree with Vermonter that, although I like these minis OK, overall this KS makes me think more of Bones in terms of quality (in that some of the sculpts are great but the variability is high; it's a real mixed bag) rather than Blood Rage, which had consistently amazing minis. I'm painting my Blood Rage big monsters now and they're a real joy to paint, as well as looking legitimately scary rather than cartoony.
Vermonter wrote: I'm just going to post this once, as I don't want to rain on everyone's parade.
But quite honestly, I think Cmon should ditch the cartoonish monster design and hire Jason Hendricks to do their sculpting, as well as executing their best monster sculpts (which he already does, for Black Plague and Blood Rage, among others.)
Zombicide Black Plague put out some really extraordinary monster sculpts. The Abominataur (which is the best large demon sculpt I've ever seen), the Abominarat, the Ablobination, the Abominatroll. Have a look at these if you get the chance, they're pretty amazing, and each one of them was not only sculpted but also designed by Hendricks himself. The Ablobination and Abominataur were actually sculpts he did on his own time and initiative, then showed to Cmon, who knew a good thing when they saw it and subsequently incorporated them into the Black Plague campaign (the BP concept artists did drawings / paintings of the sculpts after Hendricks submitted them, in fact, turning the usual flow of things completely around). Hendricks creatures are worlds more impressive and better designed than the Abominalpha, which Hendricks sculpted after someone else's cartoony concept drawing.
Having participated in Black Plague and been really wowed by the sculpts that came out of it (not just the monsters, either), I've found Massive Darkness really underwhelming so far. Hendricks is involved in Massive Darkness too (he sculpted the stone-chucking cyclops, not his design, but given his sculpting talent not surprisingly it's one of the best creature sculpts so far), so his creative input may find its way in sooner or later. I'm not disappointed, exactly, as I love Black Plague and don't need another game like Massive Darkness, but even from the peanut gallery, I'd like to see Cmon capitalize on their strengths more.
Anyhow, critique done. Enjoy the KS.
Yep, I agree with everything you said. The sculpts are technically good, but the style is really not to my taste, way too cartoonish.
I love a good dungeon crawl, I own all of the Zombicides including BP, generally speaking I like Edouard Guiton's artwork (but prefer his "darker" stuff), yet I have little interest in Massive Darkness.
It's not just the style or the perceived lack of cohesion with the miniatures, it just feels like it has all been thrown together at the last minute, which I know is not the case.
My statement above makes a lot more sense this way, as I intended to write it:
"But quite honestly, I think Cmon should ditch the cartoonish monster design and hire Jason Hendricks to do their miniature designs, as well as executing their best monster sculpts (which he already does, for Black Plague and Blood Rage, among others."
A bit dopey to argue that Hendricks should do Cmon's miniature sculpting when he already does it. I meant to say the man's own original concepts have serious chops, that his work put Black Plague over the top in my opinion, and that they should hire him as a designer as well as a sculptor.
There are certainly a few of the wandering monsters I don't really like (the mummy and minotaur leap to mind) but I'd rather have a few bad monster sculpts than the wonky character sculpts that The Others had.
It's just a different style of cartoony look. I prefer the Zombicide look much more than the MD look, but yo each their own.
Back to the elemental so for a moment. I know we were saying $40 was too much, but then I rebooked at m ZBP figs and you get 3 large guys for $30 retail, and the Ablobination isn't too large of a model, so if they are the size of the abominotaur then the prices are good in my opinion.
I agree that Hendricks' original designs from ZBP are really ace! Not a fan of the monsters here so far, which is a bummer as I was really tempted to pledge just by the concept of this game.
I was referring to the discussion above about the Black Plague sculpts he made on his own initiative, that concept art was then created to match (which is awesome in its own weird way ).
Id like to see the guest hero boxes from Zombicide, alot of those looked really good and I wish I had backed just to get those models. I cannot find any of the final sculpts online, are they not due to ship here soon?
Chopxsticks wrote: Id like to see the guest hero boxes from Zombicide, alot of those looked really good and I wish I had backed just to get those models. I cannot find any of the final sculpts online, are they not due to ship here soon?
Retailers just haven't received theirs yet, but soon....except the Jovem Nerd set which was an exclusive.
I would normally skip a paid plastic token set, but as they added my dream campaign... I kind of feel obligated. Plus, they'll hold up better during the million games of this I expect to play. :-p
If we manage to unlock the Troglodyte Warriors, we will have unlocked all the content of the Enemy box "Troglodytes", which also includes the Bloodseeker Minotaur. Backers will get these figures in its own box, which will also be available later on in retail for an estimated MSRP of $35.
I was hoping the game wouldn't just be all Goblins and Orcs. Fully fleshing out the Troglodytes adds some nice enemy variety. Can't wait to see the next enemy type.
And now building a troglodytes army becomes possible by buying multiple boxes @$35 (or $28 from miniature market) 20 humanoid figs and the Minotaur for 35.
Theophony wrote: And now building a troglodytes army becomes possible by buying multiple boxes @$35 (or $28 from miniature market) 20 humanoid figs and the Minotaur for 35.
21 humanoids
12 warriors + 6 minions + agent + shaman + warrior boss
+ Minotaur to make it 22 total
Can't wait to see what the next few "Enemy Box" stretch goals will be after this one - the campaign has the potential to deliver quite a few more of them.
I'd bet one for...Dark Elves...and...Beastmen of some sort...and...?
I do hope as some others have said for the artist packs. I absolutely love the Kopinski brothers ones from Black Plague so I'd love to see another here.
I find it a little strange that the Trogs come with a Minotaur yet the bosses helmer is shaped like a wolf you'd think that he'd have horns or something.....right?
I love those troglodytes. Fantastic design, and great sculpting. They look like they will be really fun to paint. I'll look forward to picking up the box at retail! Not enough in the base pledge that catches my eye currently.
I'm sure there's a market out there for men that look like rats.
I'm actually curious as to how Guiton- designed ratlings would look. They never had any for Confrontation, but the Goblins there had such a rat theme going on, I had always half expected to see a were-rat-goblin.
Alpharius wrote: I'd bet one for...Dark Elves...and...Beastmen of some sort...and...?
We've got a High Elf hero now, so some Dark Elf enemies would make sense. Also might be a chance for get a more serpentine roaming monster without going full dragon.
Alpharius wrote: I'd bet one for...Dark Elves...and...Beastmen of some sort...and...?
We've got a High Elf hero now, so some Dark Elf enemies would make sense. Also might be a chance for get a more serpentine roaming monster without going full dragon.
Alpharius wrote: I'd bet one for...Dark Elves...and...Beastmen of some sort...and...?
We've got a High Elf hero now, so some Dark Elf enemies would make sense. Also might be a chance for get a more serpentine roaming monster without going full dragon.
Alpharius wrote: I'd bet one for...Dark Elves...and...Beastmen of some sort...and...?
We've got a High Elf hero now, so some Dark Elf enemies would make sense. Also might be a chance for get a more serpentine roaming monster without going full dragon.
That's a great idea!
A basilisk maybe?
A hydras not a dragon is it? I mean technically
Given the size of the tiles and the minis shown to date I don't think it would make sense to have a hydra. It would likely have to be smaller than the Reaper Bones hydra and being that small would make it pretty unimpressive. I think a half coiled snake or big lizard would be more lkely since they can fit within the base size more easily.
Alpharius wrote: I'd bet one for...Dark Elves...and...Beastmen of some sort...and...?
We've got a High Elf hero now, so some Dark Elf enemies would make sense. Also might be a chance for get a more serpentine roaming monster without going full dragon.
That's a great idea!
A basilisk maybe?
A hydras not a dragon is it? I mean technically
Given the size of the tiles and the minis shown to date I don't think it would make sense to have a hydra. It would likely have to be smaller than the Reaper Bones hydra and being that small would make it pretty unimpressive. I think a half coiled snake or big lizard would be more lkely since they can fit within the base size more easily.
We disagree. The base size for the abominatroll and abominarat fill the base and the models overflow the bases and the heights are amazing. They could do a dragonfly be lair which could be the size of a whole tile to itself and just mark off areas like in zombicide with sidewalks to give the movement allowances for humanoids but allow the dragon or other no steroid sized creatures to move 2-3 squares in one action. Or do like x-wing with epic ships, and have seperate damage areas for front (head), middle (body) and tail. That would allow them to use the beasts outside of just a cave area as well, have shrubbery deciding the zones like they did in zombicide, or rocky outcroppings or any other sort of features to guide movement but not restrict it. That way adventurers could sneak into an enemy encampment to rescue a captured noble or steal plans or even try to locate the enemy general and cut the head off the snake.
But all is really moot on the dragon point as Thiago has already said "No Dragons"
Alpharius wrote: I'd bet one for...Dark Elves...and...Beastmen of some sort...and...?
We've got a High Elf hero now, so some Dark Elf enemies would make sense. Also might be a chance for get a more serpentine roaming monster without going full dragon.
That's a great idea!
A basilisk maybe?
A hydras not a dragon is it? I mean technically
Given the size of the tiles and the minis shown to date I don't think it would make sense to have a hydra. It would likely have to be smaller than the Reaper Bones hydra and being that small would make it pretty unimpressive. I think a half coiled snake or big lizard would be more lkely since they can fit within the base size more easily.
We disagree. The base size for the abominatroll and abominarat fill the base and the models overflow the bases and the heights are amazing. They could do a dragonfly be lair which could be the size of a whole tile to itself and just mark off areas like in zombicide with sidewalks to give the movement allowances for humanoids but allow the dragon or other no steroid sized creatures to move 2-3 squares in one action. Or do like x-wing with epic ships, and have seperate damage areas for front (head), middle (body) and tail. That would allow them to use the beasts outside of just a cave area as well, have shrubbery deciding the zones like they did in zombicide, or rocky outcroppings or any other sort of features to guide movement but not restrict it. That way adventurers could sneak into an enemy encampment to rescue a captured noble or steal plans or even try to locate the enemy general and cut the head off the snake.
But all is really moot on the dragon point as Thiago has already said "No Dragons"
All the abominations are bipedal. I think it would be tough to get a hydra's 4 legs on say the abominatroll's base. Maybe a hydra rearing on hind legs? I was disappointed in the DS dragon because of the way they had to pose it, I prefer monsters to be monstrous. I would very happy if they managed to fit a big monster into the base pledge but like you said it's unlikely.
Theophony wrote: And now building a troglodytes army becomes possible by buying multiple boxes @$35 (or $28 from miniature market) 20 humanoid figs and the Minotaur for 35.
21 humanoids
12 warriors + 6 minions + agent + shaman + warrior boss
+ Minotaur to make it 22 total
That's a bloody good deal. Just painting up some of the ZBP miniatures and for board games they are absolutely stunning, made this one an auto-pledge for me that's for sure!
Theophony wrote: And now building a troglodytes army becomes possible by buying multiple boxes @$35 (or $28 from miniature market) 20 humanoid figs and the Minotaur for 35.
21 humanoids
12 warriors + 6 minions + agent + shaman + warrior boss
+ Minotaur to make it 22 total
That's a bloody good deal. Just painting up some of the ZBP miniatures and for board games they are absolutely stunning, made this one an auto-pledge for me that's for sure!
I just bought ZBP to see what PVC minis were like and how they painted, and yeah, they are brilliant, really easy to paint, superb value for money. Another auto-pledge here.
I can't link images from phone but the Black Plague addon is now available. Only $8 and a very impressive about of contents. Only obvious thing missing for me was the Crowz but don't really see many Crows in dungeons so not a big omission.
The Black Plague Crossover Set is a Kickstarter Exclusive Optional Buy that brings you over 50 cards to allow you to use a lot of the retail content from Zombicide: Black Plague in Massive Darkness. It will also allow you to use all of the Massive Darkness Heroes as Survivors in Zombicide: Black Plague!
Of course, a Zombicide: Black Plague core box is necessary to use this content, and some of it requires a few of the expansion boxes. Please note this Crossover Set will not be available on retail.
Black Plague Survivors as Massive Darkness Heroes
The Crossover Set comes with 15 Hero Cards to bring the main Black Plague Survivors as Heroes in Massive Darkness.
6 Heroes from the Black Plague core box
4 Heroes from the Wulfsburg expansion
5 Heroes from the Hero Box-1 expansion
Converting all 50 Survivors from the 13 Special Guest Boxes, and 23 Kickstarter Exclusive Survivors would not be possible, so we focused on these Survivors that are easily available at retail.
Black Plague Survivors as Massive Darkness Heroes.
Black Plague Zombies as Massive Darkness Enemies
The Crossover Set includes 19 Guard cards to bring many Zombies as Mobs and Agents:
Walkers from the Black Plague core box are a Mob, with a Fatty as the Boss.
Runners from the Black Plague core box are a Mob, with the Abomination as the Boss.
Necromancer from the Black Plague core box is an Agent.
Wolfz from the Wulfsburg expansion are a Mob, with the Wolfbomination as the Boss.
Deadeye Walkers are a Mob, using one sculpt as the Minions, and another as the Boss.
There are also 6 Roaming Monster cards to use the Abominations from the Zombie Bosses Abomination Pack:
Abominatroll
Ablobination
Abominotaur
Again, we are not including the Kickstarter Exclusive Abominations in the set, only those available on retail.
Black Plague Zombies as Massive Darkness Enemies.
Massive Darkness Heroes as Black Plague Survivors
Finally, the Crossover Set will allow you to bring ALL the Massive Darkness Heroes to Black Plague as Survivors.
6 Survivors from the Massive Darkness core box
5 Survivors from unlocked Stretch Goals
ANY other characters we reveal during this campaign!
Massive Darkness Heroes as Black Plague Survivors.
If you're interested in purchasing any of this optional buy, please just click the "Manage Your Pledge" button on the Massive Darkness Kickstarter page and in the pledge manager add the amount of the items you'd like to get. We'll sort out what your extra money is going towards after the campaign has closed and we've sent out our Pledge Manager.
usernamesareannoying wrote: so im not 100% on how kickstarters work.
does this mean that I could pledge at $1 and then throw in $8 for this optional buy?
There's only one pledge level for MD, it's $120. You pledge $120 now and at the end of the campaign Kickstarter bills your credit card for $120 (plus shipping) and then CMoN sends you the game when it's ready. If you want the ZBP cards you need to add $8 to your pledge for a total of $128 plus shipping. I don't think CMoN allows you to buy optional add ons without first buying a base pledge.
usernamesareannoying wrote: so im not 100% on how kickstarters work.
does this mean that I could pledge at $1 and then throw in $8 for this optional buy?
not in this case (although some KS would allow you to),
CMON require you to pledge for the main game before you can get any add ons so if just want the BP conversion cards your best bet is to get a friend (or helpful dakka member in your country) to add them to their pledge for you
I'm not sure if they're allowing "add-on only" pledges this time?
In the past they have - and they have not, meaning that even later on, after the campaign, you'll still have to buy the actual pledge and then add in your...add-ons.
So, back for just $1 now, get access to the Pledge Manager later, and then buy the game and any additional content you want.
I'm thinking that's most likely the case here this time too, but I'm not 100% on it!
If we reach $1,510k all backers will get 4 sculpted Level 2 Treasure Chests! These rare chests hold the best treasure Heroes can find lying about the dungeon. If they want anything better than that, they'll have to kill Guardians, find Artifacts, or collect so much treasure they can transmute it into something better.
The Nightmare Thing is truly a nightmare for heroes. This mass of amorphous appendages is able to mimic its enemies in order to defeat them. The Nightmare Thing has no combat stats of its own, instead it gets as many Attack and Defense dice as the best stats among the heroes. The stronger YOU get, the stronger IT gets!
It still seems to have a lot of momentum from the Z:BP add-on. Weekends are always slo anyway, so I don't see them "using up" another add-on before next week.
I like the BP add on and will add in $8 for it. But overall the campaign feels underwhelming. I think part of that is obviously that we're not getting unique heroes or fun heroes. Just some exclusive enemy sculpts. But we'll see how it turns out.
Nightmare thing is really sweet! Style does seem a bit different, but it's an awesome looking monster, imo. Almost a black plague vibe to it, which is definitely a good thing!
I wonder if Nightmare is something that didn't quite make The Others (or was done on spec by a sculptor and offered) rather than specifically commissioned for this
Very nice that's a lot of added content for only $8 (if you have BP)
Looking at the cards
Nelly has recommend class of Shadow Barbarian
Theo is a Nightshade Ranger
Glynda is a Paladin of Fury
and Morrigan is a Warrior Priest - a class that hasn't shown up yet
Chests unlocked today's add ons have given this a good boost but it will run out of steam long before another $80k is raised.
Also it appears KS has now given creators the option to create sub accounts as Thiago is posting from his own account but now has the blue box and is CMoN team.
DaveC wrote: Very nice that's a lot of added content for only $8 (if you have BP)
Looking at the cards
Nelly has recommend class of Shadow Barbarian
Theo is a Nightshade Ranger
Glynda is a Paladin of Fury
and Morrigan is a Warrior Priest - a class that hasn't shown up yet
I also see nothing here that indicates you need components from Black Plague to use these new heroes and monsters. Any given proxy will do, which is nice considering I have no desire to own Black Plague!
DaveC wrote: Very nice that's a lot of added content for only $8 (if you have BP)
Looking at the cards
Nelly has recommend class of Shadow Barbarian
Theo is a Nightshade Ranger
Glynda is a Paladin of Fury
and Morrigan is a Warrior Priest - a class that hasn't shown up yet
I also see nothing here that indicates you need components from Black Plague to use these new heroes and monsters. Any given proxy will do, which is nice considering I have no desire to own Black Plague!
I am almost considering buying a second Black Plague for more figs and boards, now I could unload the character figs to someone I your situation.
I don't have Black Plague yet, but it's on the list. So cards added. It's higher on the list now that there's dual use in Massive Darkness for Zombies and the awesome heroes, and use of the heroes in Black Plague.
Great cross promotion, CMON and GG.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like a lot of people are grabbing the Black Plague cards. We're already only $30k off the Nightmare Thing.
Alpharius wrote: The BP cards are the only 'true' add-on, unless you're going for multiple Trog boxes?
Other than the elementals and the dice?
Azazelx wrote:Shows how forgettable the elementals pack is? They could make it more attractive by adding some KS-exclusive stretch goals to it.
Ha!
What I meant by that was 'new add-ons that would get the needle moving as the Elementals and Dice have, presumably, already made their impact on the pledge total' - but yeah, they clearly weren't very inspiring either...
Still, that little $8 add-on of Black Plague crossover stuff was more successful than I thought it would be!
We're less than $1K from the Nightmare Thing!
Automatically Appended Next Post: And it is in!
But now we've got another $80K stretch, this time for a hero:
Sarah's noble lineage makes her a true leader. When she moves, she can take one her companions along with her for free. She's also no slouch in battle, rolling an extra yellow die in melee combat. Her recommended Noble Warrior class also grants her an extra blue Defense die in order to protect herself.
Sarah miniature.
PS: And yes, Sarah's Survivor ID Card will be added to the Black Plague Crossover Set.
Sining wrote: Looks more like a human to me. Armor is not really what I would associate with elven armor
I figured it was an elf because of the armour. What threw me was the sword which looks like a typical fantasy human short sword.
Regarding the campaign, I really hope after Sarah we get another selection of enemy types. Zombicide sort of needed to go overboard with survivors, because the game focuses so much on Zombies. Massive Darkness is different, since it's a generic dungeon crawler. Enemy types are the lifeblood of the experience as well as heroes, and we've got a good selection of heroes already. Right now backers have got a huge amount of Roaming Monsters, and there's a bit more there if you have Black Plague as well as a couple of mob types. We need another base enemy type or two like the Ratlings they've teased to get that dungeon crawl feel.
I want Ratlings before generic dungeon trash mostly to see their take on rat men. Also there's room there for some rat trash mobs. Rats and Ratling Handler boss. Ratling Warriors and Ratling Warrior boss. Ratling agent of some type. Giant Rat/Ratling Ogre Roaming Monster.
Theophony wrote: 161 figs in the base pledge now for $120, many big ones, so value is here already.
The whole thing is almost at the point where I'd be willing to pay those 120 bucks to gamble on, say, a 50% recovery rate for models. Some of the big ones should not have any issues transitioning into PVC and those would probably be worth the asking price alone.
Theophony wrote: 161 figs in the base pledge now for $120, many big ones, so value is here already.
The whole thing is almost at the point where I'd be willing to pay those 120 bucks to gamble on, say, a 50% recovery rate for models. Some of the big ones should not have any issues transitioning into PVC and those would probably be worth the asking price alone.
Not sure if you've seen their other models (Blood Rage,b-sieged, zombicide and the Black Plague) but if you like the style of them these guys come out great. The monster sized guys from the ZBP Kickstarter are amazing. I'm not even questioning the elemental a box price anymore as I think the models size and shown definitions will easily justify them later. My only issue is getting the cash together as I'm strapped now and wondering if I'll get a better discount later from miniature market and not have to tack on the extra shipping fees to the Kickstarter.
Agreed with Theophony on model quality. I have maybe one badly moulded piece in my Black Plague stuff out of abut 200 models. Some weapon bending but nothing too bad.
I'm quite vocal how much I dislike Kickstarters in all shape and form. In all these years I only backed one and even if it was a positive experience I have seen to many good people burned by it, both developers and clients.
Call me a oldfashioned guy but my money goes to the companies that put their money upfront and sculpt, cast and then put live stock for sale. Concepts, ideas, preorder mechanisms do not get my investment. If the creators do not believe their projects enough to invest in it why should I? I dont preorder anything as principle too.
NAVARRO wrote: I'm quite vocal how much I dislike Kickstarters in all shape and form. In all these years I only backed one and even if it was a positive experience I have seen to many good people burned by it, both developers and clients.
Call me a oldfashioned guy but my money goes to the companies that put their money upfront and sculpt, cast and then put live stock for sale. Concepts, ideas, preorder mechanisms do not get my investment. If the creators do not believe their projects enough to invest in it why should I? I dont preorder anything as principle too.
Fair enough. I just look st CMoN as a glorified preorder with benefits though. All the stuff I've gotten from them (brick and mortar or Kickstarter) has been top notch, and would have been produced anyway. I see this just as a way of not taking on any additional bank loans to get production going, and that is good business sense to me.
I have seen your other posts, but I just prefer seeing why people are against it instead of just a statement of "not backing". It gives others more info to make their decisions instead of guesswork.
Totally understandable I just opted not to post my dislike for KS's again. I mean I see no wrong with this KS in particular and its almost a sure success that will be delivered... also the minis look quite nice.
As much as I would like that spawn I can live without if it means supporting another KS.
Without going to much on a tangent I find it really annoying to see so many companies doing KS after KS and with a backlog of minis still not produced for the general public. I know 6 months or 1 year down the path they will probably be there, but by then I have different projects.
There's another problem with those sorts of crossovers - who holds the IP. CMoN is a publisher for these games, but may not necessarily hold the IP rights to do crossovers. Guillotine Games are the developers of Zombicide and now Massive Darkness, so doing a crossover with their own game doesn't have any legal issues.
Rum and Bones was made by... Five Houses? That's the other company on the box. They simply might not be allowed to do crossovers with other games.
-Loki- wrote: Rum and Bones was made by... Five Houses? That's the other company on the box. They simply might not be allowed to do crossovers with other games.
Which might rule out a Wrath of Kings crossover, as that was also Five Houses
NAVARRO wrote: I'm quite vocal how much I dislike Kickstarters in all shape and form. In all these years I only backed one and even if it was a positive experience I have seen to many good people burned by it, both developers and clients.
Call me a oldfashioned guy but my money goes to the companies that put their money upfront and sculpt, cast and then put live stock for sale. Concepts, ideas, preorder mechanisms do not get my investment. If the creators do not believe their projects enough to invest in it why should I? I dont preorder anything as principle too.
That's understandable. I got burned on the Dust Tactics kickstarter.
However, I've backed many and had just that one problem. Not only that C'MON has a transparent trackrecord of delivering exactly what's ordered. They've had may big successes and have gotten the process down pat. From Zombicide up sculpts are great, and the quality is great. I've had no complaints.
Just like Blood Rage, I'm getting this for my D&D group. If I actually get to play the game, it's going to be a double bonus.
I think you would be completely safe if you wanted to take a risk on this.
this is a resin copy of the original green. they make a few of these and then chop them up if needed to find the best way to mold the model for plastic production. It would be much more expensive if all the models were resin instead of plastic, but resin usually keeps more of the detail.
The Oni is nice, but his ankles look like he skipped out early on leg day. I was hoping by the updates texts that we were getting more demons......even though I love Oni.
You wanted demons, but we got Oni? But I thought Oni were Japanese demons?
For me, the Cyclops, Oni, and Nightmare thing make this KS worth a look. But they're also far and away my favorite sculpts so far, and all of them are KS exclusive. If I were Cmon, I'd put in some more awesome stuff like this in the retail box to drive post-KS sales. (But then, that's just my taste. And I admit, the spider in the box is pretty awesome.)
Chopxsticks wrote: I have not watched the game play videos, could someone explain the need for 15 treasure chests let alone an add on for an additional 15?
When you open a door you draw door cards for each chamber (room) in the area opened (like how you draw spawn cards in Zombicide). These cards tell you whats in the room. The rulebook shows an example of 5 door cards, there are 10 in total. 1 card reveals 6 lvl 1 chests, 2 cards reveal 5 lvl 1 chests, 1 card reveals 4 lvl 1 chests and 1 card reveals 3 lvl 1 chests. So depending on how many rooms an area you just opened contains then the number of chests drawn could use all 15 or more in one go. Plus you might leave some behind in a room and then reveal more in a later chamber requiring more chests to be placed on the board. There are 30 chest tokens in the base game.
The 3D doors are an easy pass I have the BP (and Dungeon Saga) ones and the bridge is probably better as a tile. I have loads of other chests should the need arise. I've only an extra $8 in so far this might not be too expensive.
-Loki- wrote: Rum and Bones was made by... Five Houses? That's the other company on the box. They simply might not be allowed to do crossovers with other games.
Which might rule out a Wrath of Kings crossover, as that was also Five Houses
-Loki- wrote: Rum and Bones was made by... Five Houses? That's the other company on the box. They simply might not be allowed to do crossovers with other games.
Which might rule out a Wrath of Kings crossover, as that was also Five Houses
Probably not the case
Yeah if you look at the Black Plague Kickstarter exclusive abominalpha it's clearly a WOK figure which is a CMON product but a different companies game.
So just watched the game play video, first room they spawn 5 chests and then a Leader who spawned 8 minions with him. The room didnt fit the minions let alone 5 plastic treasure chests. The extra Pillers might be nice though.
-Loki- wrote: Rum and Bones was made by... Five Houses? That's the other company on the box. They simply might not be allowed to do crossovers with other games.
Which might rule out a Wrath of Kings crossover, as that was also Five Houses
Probably not the case
Oooooo....count me as very interested! Already pledging for MD, but already have loads of WoK and would love some crossover there!
DaveC wrote: The 3D doors are an easy pass I have the BP (and Dungeon Saga) ones and the bridge is probably better as a tile. I have loads of other chests should the need arise. I've only an extra $8 in so far this might not be too expensive.
I was actually thinking of using the bridges for my other games, with my river tiles from Terra Tiles or something.
Does anyone know where else I can get 3D generic fantasy bridges? Chests and doors are pretty common, but I haven't seen inexpensive bridges though I haven't been looking for them. I've wanted them ever since Advanced HeroQuest.
There's a "$1.50 for two" bridge set on eBay, but the bridges are 2 inches long.
Chopxsticks wrote: I have not watched the game play videos, could someone explain the need for 15 treasure chests let alone an add on for an additional 15?
You might not need them for MD, but you'll want the pillars for your game tiles. If you're going to have a "King's Hall" setup, you're going to want 12+ *matching* pillars. Whee.
I'm not going to shame any individuals, but this is some of what it comes across as:
I don't own anything Black Plague, but I want all the Black Plague Cross over heroes, and I don't want to actually support CMON or GG by buying Black Plague to get those heroes. CMON must be money grubbing evil Nazis for not offering all the crossover heroes as an add on
I already have doors from another game, but I want the bridges. Why isn't there a Bridge only add on? CMON must be money grubbing evil Nazis for not offering just bridges as an add on
I've never backed a kickstarter before and I don't want to pay for add-ons. CMON must be money grubbing evil Nazis for not making all the add on items free and permanent upgrades to the box set
Related, a few BGG folks wanted crossovers with The Others and an urban-slash-WWII Castle Wolfenstein version of Massive Darkness (because stealth and darkness and stuff) *would* involve Nazis.
*Zombie* Nazis so we could do a Zombicide crossover.
After not having seen any artist packs for heroes yet, and after having checked to see when they were introduced in Black Plague (10 days into the campaign), and realizing that we're definitely past that mark now with no signs, i'm getting less hopeful that any such packs will show up. The troglodyte pack is great, and I hope we see more of that kind of thing and less of the wandering monsters, but I'm finding myself less and less excited about this campaign. I've pledged $200 with little i want to spend it on right now. Some hard-hitting add-ons are needed and I'd be more than willing to pay. Anyways, I'll be sticking around to the end to see where we get.
Not that it helps, but those artist packs are starting to pop up on Ebay. Im watching quite a few to pick up for the models alone. Unrelated but people are also parting out just the item cards from the Wulfburg expansion which is pretty awesome.
The Oni looks nice, but I'm getting a bit tired of Roaming Monsters. I get it might be something they want to 'get out of their system' (making nice large monsters after endless zombie hordes must be cathartic for their sculptors) but we've just got so many huge Roaming Monsters now. Some more enemy minions for variety would be really nice. I'm buying the BP cards and BP games just for exactly that.
Either that or a nice expansion, which would obviously come with some new minions. An expansion would be super nice.
Damned if they do damned if they don't the biggest complaint about BP and later Zc seasons is that there were to many survivors added and not enough minions/monsters now the complaints are going the opposite way MD now has 12 heroes (plus 15 crossovers) and will probably have upwards of 20 by the end but I agree that it probably has enough Roaming monsters now and it would be nice to see some new minion types rather than heroes
I don't want to seem ungrateful, as I like the monsters. Just thinking that there could be more addons/characters/content by 1.75 million (we'll hit that within 12 hours of this post). Possibly special encounter rooms like Shadows over Brimstone had. 1-2 unique tiles and a few themed villains to live there.
Moopy wrote: I don't want to seem ungrateful, as I like the monsters. Just thinking that there could be more addons/characters/content by 1.75 million (we'll hit that within 12 hours of this post). Possibly special encounter rooms like Shadows over Brimstone had. 1-2 unique tiles and a few themed villains to live there.
Have they ever done unique tiles though? I've never seen any. I just wonder if they are holding back an expansion add on till late in the KS to give a huge push. I wouldn't be against even an add on for each of the mob types we have so far.
(even if they are add ons rather than free I'd be interested)
as to tiles I'd hope they were an add on by themselves (as there's certainly demand) as those suckers are heavy and will impact on shipping for those of us outside the 'cheap' countries
but I begin to think this is going to be a 'cheaper' CMON project where they aren't going to have that big expansion in this time round, perhaps we'll have a separate KS for it next year?
(there has been a bunch of push on the cost of CMON projects by folk who insist they have to back for everything and even though it doesn't seem to stop the cash rolling in they may be seeing how far a smaller project can go now)
@Theophony- I don't know if they have, as I haven't backed most of their kickstarters. Black Plague did have extra tile sets for an add on purchase those were already existing.
I was using the Shadows over Brimstone example as a cool idea, but to be honest, figures seem to be CMoN's strong suit. Probably easier to market due to smaller packaging/combining packaging and are much lighter to ship.
I'm not going to shame any individuals, but this is some of what it comes across as:
I don't own anything Black Plague, but I want all the Black Plague Cross over heroes, and I don't want to actually support CMON or GG by buying Black Plague to get those heroes. CMON must be money grubbing evil Nazis for not offering all the crossover heroes as an add on
I already have doors from another game, but I want the bridges. Why isn't there a Bridge only add on? CMON must be money grubbing evil Nazis for not offering just bridges as an add on
I've never backed a kickstarter before and I don't want to pay for add-ons. CMON must be money grubbing evil Nazis for not making all the add on items free and permanent upgrades to the box set
That's eerily accurate. You could probably find those quotes word for word in the comments right now.
I do understand the first point. I'm backing Massive Darkness, but don't own anything Black Plague. If I want to add the extra heroes, it's not $8. It's $8 + whatever I have to pay for Black Plague/Wulfsburg/Hero Box 1. In that sense, it's not a very good value given that I'm not really interested in playing Black Plague. I have Zombicide Season 3 and it was a big fail with my group. I'd love it if they offered the heroes along with the conversion kit, but I get that's not going to happen. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to say "I like the idea of a crossover, but don't actually want to buy TWO games today. Can you sell me just the parts I need and can use with this new game you're actively trying to talk me into buying right now?"
It pushed existing ZBP players who were on the fence, about backing Massive Darkness, over it. Even if you don't like Massive Darkness turns out, it's okay because it's the new ZBP expansion.
Backing Massive Darkness, and you would like additional heroes ? Just pick up ZBP and it's expansions because now they are Massive Darkness expansions as well.
I bought backed the B-Sieged Kickstarter, a game I have zero intention of ever playing, mostly for the Zombicide Black Plague Crossover Heroes.
I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to say "I like the idea of a crossover, but don't actually want to buy TWO games today. Can you sell me just the parts I need and can use with this new game you're actively trying to talk me into buying right now?"
But it is. First off, you don't need anything from ZBP to play MD. Secondly, the crossover covers the heroes and the monsters. There is no reason you couldn't use the tiles as well. The only thing that isn't useful to a striclty MD player from ZBP is the dice and counters. Finally, It also defeats half the purpose of the crossover, which is to get more people to buy and play ZBP.
Im pretty happy with the size of this KS as is, Maybe they deliver sooner because they didnt try to do more than they anticipated. Having been a backer of Kingdom Death, I dont ever want to revisit that type of campaign again.
I'm happy for the expansion deck because it allows me to use the hordes of generic fantasy heroes and zombies I already own, without having to pay for redundant models! Much better for rules completionists than individual $10 characters.
Kriswall wrote: I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to say "I like the idea of a crossover, but don't actually want to buy TWO games today. Can you sell me just the parts I need and can use with this new game you're actively trying to talk me into buying right now?"
The additional cost of repackaging content, including the rigmarole of a separate packing line at the factory, pulling out components from the main line, and lower demand for the product cost the Cthulhu Wars folk more than the costs of buying the miniatures separately from the game. I think you're better off buying the $8 add-on and proxying with your own miniatures, or even trading it later to late BGG'ers who somehow won't have pledged in time for a modest profit.
Even with just the Z:BP base game, you're getting 71 miniatures for $80. That's not a bad price, but should go lower and you can find a sale. It's not like you need Z:BP now, since MD isn't arriving any time soon and you haven't played through all the MD content yet. Z is selling on Amazon for $60, and Z:RM is already selling for $60. So Z:BP may do so as well. Also, I've seen good prices on Battle Bin for Zombicide mini's, so watch for a Z:BP one. You may also find the mini's sold on eBay, or from a BGG'er who doesn't believe in plastic.
I do understand the first point. I'm backing Massive Darkness, but don't own anything Black Plague. If I want to add the extra heroes, it's not $8. It's $8 + whatever I have to pay for Black Plague/Wulfsburg/Hero Box 1. In that sense, it's not a very good value given that I'm not really interested in playing Black Plague. I have Zombicide Season 3 and it was a big fail with my group. I'd love it if they offered the heroes along with the conversion kit, but I get that's not going to happen. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to say "I like the idea of a crossover, but don't actually want to buy TWO games today. Can you sell me just the parts I need and can use with this new game you're actively trying to talk me into buying right now?"
Well, it's a boardgame, not an a la carte miniatures game. I don't think it's especially feasable to sell "just parts" unless you want to go via bits vendors. You're also being just a little disinegenuous. The $8 ZBP conversion kit is a bit of a crossover/friendly nod to ZBP players and owners. On the other hand, if you're not a ZBP player/owner/fan, it's still piss-easy to sort it out.
To get the extra heroes, it's $8 for the cards plus whatever Reaper Bones/Citadel/Reaper/Otherworld/Ral Partha/WotC/etc models you want to use for the extra heroes - and undead as well for that matter!
This is simply great for a D&D dungeon master. I can run so many campaigns with these figures alone and so many interesting monsters. Same for Z:BP.
I know people are like 'why so many roaming?' I feel like CMoN knows what they are doing in regard to that as this has a BONES-Like appeal in figure count and theme. And this material and sculpts are better than Bones.
After a lot of thinking, I'm probably going to drop my pledge. Nothing to do with the campaign or game, just the face that it'll never see the table. I haven't had much luck getting my group into big box board games. I've got Zombicide season 2 and Toxic City Mall, which has seen the table once. I have Imperial Assault, which has likewise seen the table once. Both of which I want to play more before adding more board games to my collection.
The value is huge, but other board games will come along, I'm sure. Right now, it just doesn't seem like a wise expenditure of hobby money
I don't get why people are complaining about the roaming monsters. What you encounter in rooms is random
More roaming monsters means more diversity in those encounters.
A lot of these roaming monsters are also exclusive. I'm willing to wager that it costs CMON / GG less to produce 1 big cool roaming monster than a half dozen cannon fodder minions.
As a collector and gamer I rather get big impressive exclusive miniatures than small minions that will so be available for sale later.
They already gave us more of all the starter box minions.
They gave us a $35 box worth of Troglodytes.
My point is that it much more likely, and fiscally responsible, for CMON to offer us single wandering monsters than hordes of minions.
Zombicide always offered us a few boxes of minions types. Even ZBP offered us wolves and NPCs.
We'll likely see another minion box or two before this is over, and likely some more free minions, but every time they give us free minions they are cannibalizing potential box set sales. Where every time they give us an exclusive wandering monster, it's a further incentive to back the KS that doesn't hurt future potential sales.
As Alpha said, no one is asking for free minions but add-ons, and the artist packs I'd like have traditionally been add-ons as well. The fact that CMON hasn't introduced them yet is what's both puzzling and worrisome to me, since I was hoping for some of a more ambitious campaign than what we've seen so far.
and the artist packs I'd like have traditionally been add-ons as well. The fact that CMON hasn't introduced them yet is what's both puzzling and worrisome to me, since I was hoping for some of a more ambitious campaign than what we've seen so far.
I don't think well be seeing many (any?) 'Guest Artists Packs' this time around.
And I'm really surprised there haven't been more larger, more substantial paid add-ons like campaign expansions or minion boxes yet,
BUT, there's still over two weeks to go - so there's time!
adamsouza wrote: My point is that it much more likely, and fiscally responsible, for CMON to offer us single wandering monsters than hordes of minions.
How so?
The cost of the molds is expensive compared to the plastic. Once the mold is paid for, the cost per miniature is negligible, pennies for the plastic pellets. Based on that, it's less expensive to have SG's providing more copies of existing mini's.
Likewise, some of the SG's *have* been in quantity, such as the trogs, chests, and pillars.
OTOH, I'd like to know what else goes into the cost of making a miniature. I know pre-assembly costs Reaper about a penny per mini. Multi-piece molds cost more, I think because each part is sorta equivalent to an individual single-piece miniature. Dunno about retail packaging.
I'm fine either way. Reaper's charging $6 for a large Bones miniature. We already have almost 20 Roaming Monsters, so that's $120 of miniatures already. The terrain add-ons are also great deals. Hard to find bridges and matching pillars at those prices!
nkelsch wrote: This is simply great for a D&D dungeon master. I can run so many campaigns with these figures alone and so many interesting monsters. Same for Z:BP.
AMEN! Even if this game never sees the light of day, the minis are going to be plaguing my players for years to come!
FMPOV: CMON designs games around shipping packaging and they've gotten VERY clever at it. When my KSs from them show up, they arrive in one box per wave and it's jammed packed to the gils in a way that makes Tetris proud. All the stretch goals get wrapped up into boxed sets (ala the Trogs in this one) or they get put into 1 sheet (ala BP and other Zombicides). So it's just a matter of how they are going to package up the KS extras into those boxes that will effect the total variety.
Toward the end of Blood Rage (Spelling?) they unlocked the Ragnarok wolf and said "that's it! no more"- there was an end goal in site. Not sure if that's the same here.
I like the idea of more factions, as that gives more variety to play. Undead (BP), Trogs, Goblins, Dwarves is a good mix, but I think we could do a 5th or 6th faction. More minons the better!
So conflicted about buying this! I've got a pretty huge LotR haul that hit me for an unexpected ~$200, and I've also got both Darklight and Dark Souls coming in the future as far as dungeon crawlers go... and I'm currently playing through Silver Tower as well. Might be a bit much... on the other hand I do have Black plague so that would be a nice crossover. what do you guys reckon?
Mymearan wrote: So conflicted about buying this! I've got a pretty huge LotR haul that hit me for an unexpected ~$200, and I've also got both Darklight and Dark Souls coming in the future as far as dungeon crawlers go... and I'm currently playing through Silver Tower as well. Might be a bit much... on the other hand I do have Black plague so that would be a nice crossover. what do you guys reckon?
Unless you've run out of shelf space you don't pass up on this. Even if you don't get to it for a while you still are saving big and getting your (enter your countries monatary form here) worth.
Mymearan wrote: So conflicted about buying this! I've got a pretty huge LotR haul that hit me for an unexpected ~$200, and I've also got both Darklight and Dark Souls coming in the future as far as dungeon crawlers go... and I'm currently playing through Silver Tower as well. Might be a bit much... on the other hand I do have Black plague so that would be a nice crossover. what do you guys reckon?
Unless you've run out of shelf space you don't pass up on this. Even if you don't get to it for a while you still are saving big and getting your (enter your countries monatary form here) worth.
Sure, but every CMON KS is a huge savings, and they'll probably do BP season 2 and MD season 2 in a couple of years... eventually I'll have to skip one anyway eh, who am I kidding... I'll probably buy it :(
Acceptance is the last stage.... It's healthy to work through it.
"Dungeon crawlers are boss!" *barely has time to play one game let alone several, and never campaigns*
"But maybe I can use those minis with Frostgrave/Song of Blades and Heroes" *doesn't play Frostgrave/Song of Blades and Heroes*
"Ooooh all those fantasy minis might be useful in Age of Sigmar" *uses completely different scale*
"Screw it I just want them in my closet to think about and fondle because I like spending money" *brain finally accepts reality*
What you have to think as well Mymearan is when this game arrives, and that you might well have a gap in your gaming and painting schedule at that time
At least that's how I am rationalising it to myself!
Loki - real shame you couldn't get your group on board with Zombicide, have had so much fun with it it's just a very light-hearted, enjoyable game that doesn't take too much effort to play.
Pacific wrote: What you have to think as well Mymearan is when this game arrives, and that you might well have a gap in your gaming and painting schedule at that time
At least that's how I am rationalising it to myself!
Loki - real shame you couldn't get your group on board with Zombicide, have had so much fun with it it's just a very light-hearted, enjoyable game that doesn't take too much effort to play.
Luckily I have no ambition to paint any of my board games, which is good because I have 700+ unpainted wargame minis
Pacific wrote: What you have to think as well Mymearan is when this game arrives, and that you might well have a gap in your gaming and painting schedule at that time
At least that's how I am rationalising it to myself!
Loki - real shame you couldn't get your group on board with Zombicide, have had so much fun with it it's just a very light-hearted, enjoyable game that doesn't take too much effort to play.
Luckily I have no ambition to paint any of my board games, which is good because I have 700+ unpainted wargame minis
Well then there's no reason not to buy if you have less than a thousand minis to paint .
Mymearan wrote: Luckily I have no ambition to paint any of my board games, which is good because I have 700+ unpainted wargame minis
You should learn how to paint! That way, you'll only have 6000+ unpainted mini's!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mymearan wrote: "Dungeon crawlers are boss!" *barely has time to play one game let alone several, and never campaigns*
"But maybe I can use those minis with Frostgrave/Song of Blades and Heroes" *doesn't play Frostgrave/Song of Blades and Heroes*
"Ooooh all those fantasy minis might be useful in Age of Sigmar" *uses completely different scale*
"Screw it I just want them in my closet to think about and fondle because I like spending money" *brain finally accepts reality*
"These will be great to paint" *owns thousands of unpainted plastic, resin, and lead miniatures, as well as backed 500+ KS miniatures through other projects*
The Heroes & Monster Set: Warrior Priests vs The Spearmaiden Cyclops is an Optional Buy box that brings you a plethora of new additions to the game. It introduces the Warrior Priest class, represented by Malleus, along with two other Heroes, as well as the humongous Spearmaiden Cyclops Roaming Monster!
In total, this set includes: •3 Hero figures •1 Large Spearmaiden Cyclops figure •5 Cards •1 Warrior Priest Class Sheet Pad
it's keenly priced ($27), but I wish it was a mob box rather than wandering monster and heroes
THere used to be a time when big monsters like this one were only available in metal and like 60$ or so. Now they're cast in much easier to use material for a quarter of the price..
I think im riding out the base pledge till the end. People are always willing to sell things at a lose or below value on ebay for some reason. I just got 2 of the artist boxes from Black Plague that retail for $20 off ebay for $15 w/ free shipping!
Chopxsticks wrote: I think im riding out the base pledge till the end. People are always willing to sell things at a lose or below value on ebay for some reason. I just got 2 of the artist boxes from Black Plague that retail for $20 off ebay for $15 w/ free shipping!
Several of the Guest boxes for Black Plague were included "free" as stretch goals, so a lot of people have them that wouldn't have bought them if they were optional.
Jesus, how big is that thing?? Soon CMON will do Ghurk-sized boardgame pieces. As much as I love the BP troll with its huuuge hands and arms that just won't quit, sometimes less is more. Nothing you actually shuffle arouns on a cramped board should be bigger than that (and that's pushing it).
Binabik15 wrote: Jesus, how big is that thing?? Soon CMON will do Ghurk-sized boardgame pieces. As much as I love the BP troll with its huuuge hands and arms that just won't quit, sometimes less is more. Nothing you actually shuffle arouns on a cramped board should be bigger than that (and that's pushing it).
Guess you haven't seen 40K Knights or AOS heroes then . Bigger is the new black . Does anyone else think this was supposed to be one of those free add ons like how they broke up the cockatrice box into 4 stretch goals? Not that I really mind as its really pushed the $$$$ today and we might hit our stretch goal by tonight.
After having watched the game play video and seeing them cram 9 models onto a room tile and then try and squeeze a hero in to start killing them, I am also of the mind set that bigger is not better right now. Its a cool center piece for sure, but I wonder if at some point using tokens is going to become the norm when your trying to cram patrol after patrol into the same corridor..
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you'd think that he'd have horns or something.....right?
. Almost a black plague vibe to it, which is definitely a good thing!
