Tiberius501 wrote: I’m not seeing any FAQ’s yet other than Maggotkin, bases and the General’s Handbook.
Alot of it is getting pieced together from translated pages that already have it updated.
Also, You can see the Beasts of Chaos updates if you filter "Z-A" on the English site. BoC will pop up first under that filtering but not show up otherwise.
Tiberius501 wrote: I’m not seeing any FAQ’s yet other than Maggotkin, bases and the General’s Handbook.
Alot of it is getting pieced together from translated pages that already have it updated.
Also, You can see the Beasts of Chaos updates if you filter "Z-A" on the English site. BoC will pop up first under that filtering but not show up otherwise.
fething horrendous rollouts.
Oh dear haha, I hope they fix this soon. Must be having some pretty heinous issues.
The glaring omission of any changes for Hedonites of Slaanesh is a pretty big bummer.
Competitively speaking, it's pretty much ruined the game for the year, unfortunately. This is like the 3rd time I've been shocked to see there isn't any change.
EnTyme wrote: I don't even see a Hedonites FAQ up yet. Is it up for other regions? If not, then we really don't know whether or not anything has changed.
Yeah, I've been thinking that all day. Perhaps something will come down the pipe soon. I just figure if it was coming, we'd have seen some chatter from folks with inside sources.
EnTyme wrote: I don't even see a Hedonites FAQ up yet. Is it up for other regions? If not, then we really don't know whether or not anything has changed.
It's not in the list of armies receiving an errata so I wouldn't expect one.
It's getting increasingly more obvious that "chatter from inside sources" is just the things that GW intentionally leaks to generate buzz. I don't think this is the sort of thing they leak.
EnTyme wrote: I don't even see a Hedonites FAQ up yet. Is it up for other regions? If not, then we really don't know whether or not anything has changed.
It's not in the list of armies receiving an errata so I wouldn't expect one.
That list is of armies receiving point changes. Slaanesh could still receive changes.
EnTyme wrote: I don't even see a Hedonites FAQ up yet. Is it up for other regions? If not, then we really don't know whether or not anything has changed.
Hm, well a solid 2/3 of those point changes make sense. About what I'd expect. As compared to previous points updates I'd say there's a higher number of units which should be addressed but weren't.
Wow, my minotaurs just gained 300pts to spend. OK not played them in a long time and I think there may have been a points increase at some point since I first played them. That is a good chunk of points though!
EnTyme wrote: I don't even see a Hedonites FAQ up yet. Is it up for other regions? If not, then we really don't know whether or not anything has changed.
It's not in the list of armies receiving an errata so I wouldn't expect one.
That list is of armies receiving point changes. Slaanesh could still receive changes.
This made so much sense I forgot to reply and say it makes sense. Also, apparently what happened.
Page 276 – Wild Riders, Description Add:‘Some units of Wild Riders carry Wild Rider Shields.’
Page 276 – Wild Riders, Abilities Add:‘Wild Rider Shields: You can re-roll save rolls of 1 for attacks that target a unit carrying Wild Rider Shields. In addition, subtract 2 from the Move characteristic of a unit carrying Wild Rider Shields.’
Why is it so difficult for them to add a meaningful rule to the Wild Rider's shields?
Manfred von Drakken wrote: Tzeentch appears to be the only Chaos faction that didn't see any changes. Evidence of a new book incoming?
That's the current speculation. Apparently Tzeentch, Overlords, and Seraphon didn't see updates.
Yep now that Slaves to Darkness are updated; moving into 2020 those three armies are the only ones that don't have a 2.0 Battletome at this stage. Considering the speed at which GW has been releasing them I'd expect them to all have a Tome by March, excluding any major new army release, which I honestly don't expect as there's Sisters of Battle to put out and also the fact that Ossiarchs only just went out the door. Of course for all three of those forces there's argument for updated/new models (esp for Overlords in terms of new models and Seraphon in terms of updated); however you can make such a justification for a lot of AoS armies so right now its impossible to predict if any will get anything more than spells+terrain+book. Which has been the standard roll out save for Cities of Sigmar and Orruks (with Orruks being rather the oddity in getting neither as they weren't like cities)
That's pretty exciting. I don't see the Seraphon or KO Battletome unavailable, so it probably won't be a Fec/Skaven or Gloomspite/Sylvaneth style release.... Pity. Either of those faction's would have been cool to get in a double box with Tzeentch.
Of course this could both be GW stopping sales because they are about to update in January and/or because GW hasn't ordered any stock of them in ages and they've run out.
That said its not really a huge surprise. Those last 3 factions are all that remains not on 2.0 and with a new army only just out the door the only thing left is to address the Tzeentch, Overlords and Seraphon.
Tzeentch REALLY wants to envelop Chamon where the Overlords are based from the same way Khorne wants Aqshy, Nurgle wants Ghyran, and Slaanesh Hysh/Ulgu. That was part of the original Realmgate Wars plot with Ghal-Maraz.
Seraphon are the Order version of Just As Planned. Cold, calculated logic versus the insidious scheming/plots of Tzeentch.
H.B.M.C. wrote: "The Giants of Hysh" actually sounds pretty cool.
Of course, in GW-speak that'd be the "Gargants™ of Hysh", which isn't as cool...
Surely you mean Gitstomper Tremorwalkers
I feel like if we spent a day coming up with every possible whacky combination that GW could come up with, they'll be forced to stop using those names. Or come up with even worse things.
Eh, most aren't that bad. Made-up names will always sound silly to some extent since they are nonsense we have not encountered before. There are plenty of videos where the comedy comes from people just speaking in a different language that the viewer does not understand. Now obviously GW pushes it beyond that in many places, but "gargant" and "formoroid" are pretty benign.
Remember that ripperdactyls, bloodsecrators, and deadwalkers exist.
I keep hoping that one of these days, y'all realize you're far more obsessed with the names than GW is. Half the time, GW still uses the Old World names in social media.
*edit* And to add on to what Ninth is saying, the entire Khorne line was obviously named by Nathan Explosion.
oh man please don't tease me with the possibility of Seraphon and Kharadron Overlord battletomes. My two favorite armies in AoS!
My wife wanted to play Seraphon and the local store still had last year's battleforce box (which was a ridiculous deal) so I was like "YEP". Bought them and had the whole thing plus a couple boxes of skinks, a slann, and some chameleons (wife thought they were cute) painted in about 2 months. Only trouble was (and is) their lack of battletome and reliance on summoning, which is powerful, but pretty boring IMO. Oh, and a couple key units are failcast, but luckily the slann is chunky enough that it's not brittle.
And I specifically did not buy into KO because while I LOVE their models, it was pretty obvious just reading their rules that, well, they're terrible. Instead I bought Stormcast, which I deeply regret because they A) aren't good and B) just don't have flavor at all. I can live with A, but B is a deal breaker, as they just don't inspire me to paint them at all.
I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and ebay most of the Stormcast aside from a few units that can be useful as allies, and go all in on KO and Cities (love a bunch of the old empire and dwarf stuff like steam tanks and gyrocopters!).
Now if they'd come out with new and better versions of witch hunters and warrior priests, I'd be in heaven.
Well, if you want go Cities, you don't actually have to deal with allies, as they can all take Sigmarines as native units in limited quantities, and one can take Overlords as well.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Eh, most aren't that bad. Made-up names will always sound silly to some extent since they are nonsense we have not encountered before. There are plenty of videos where the comedy comes from people just speaking in a different language that the viewer does not understand. Now obviously GW pushes it beyond that in many places, but "gargant" and "formoroid" are pretty benign.
Remember that ripperdactyls, bloodsecrators, and deadwalkers exist.
I agree. A large portion of these names sound silly because they are new. As much as I like to joke about the Chaos Lord on Kayak Lizard, Karkadrak isn't inherently bad. Good number of the names are the same. They just don't have the decades of momentum with them like anything Tolkien, Gygax or ancient folklore and myth does. And yes, most all of them were done for trademark purposes. As a child of the 1980's practically every toy I had was from that same vein. So I am not going to suddenly throw stones now.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Eh, most aren't that bad. Made-up names will always sound silly to some extent since they are nonsense we have not encountered before. There are plenty of videos where the comedy comes from people just speaking in a different language that the viewer does not understand. Now obviously GW pushes it beyond that in many places, but "gargant" and "formoroid" are pretty benign.
Remember that ripperdactyls, bloodsecrators, and deadwalkers exist.
I agree. A large portion of these names sound silly because they are new. As much as I like to joke about the Chaos Lord on Kayak Lizard, Karkadrak isn't inherently bad. Good number of the names are the same. They just don't have the decades of momentum with them like anything Tolkien, Gygax or ancient folklore and myth does. And yes, most all of them were done for trademark purposes. As a child of the 1980's practically every toy I had was from that same vein. So I am not going to suddenly throw stones now.
Are you saying you were born in the 80s and talking about 90s toys? Because 80s toys really weren't named that way. Many were just really simple puns, like 'Soundwave,' 'Shipwreck' and 'Venger.' There was a strong emphasis on each toy having a unique 'identity' as marketing ploy.
Generic Nounverb Adjectivenoun (and its variations) is a very 21st century thing tried by a lot of a gaming companies. You can see WotC do it during D&D 3rd edition as they went from Monster Manual 3 to MM 4, and their collectible minis during the same period.
The Karkadrak is just confusing, since Krakadrak is an Old World dwarfhold.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Eh, most aren't that bad. Made-up names will always sound silly to some extent since they are nonsense we have not encountered before. There are plenty of videos where the comedy comes from people just speaking in a different language that the viewer does not understand. Now obviously GW pushes it beyond that in many places, but "gargant" and "formoroid" are pretty benign.
Remember that ripperdactyls, bloodsecrators, and deadwalkers exist.
I agree. A large portion of these names sound silly because they are new. As much as I like to joke about the Chaos Lord on Kayak Lizard, Karkadrak isn't inherently bad. Good number of the names are the same. They just don't have the decades of momentum with them like anything Tolkien, Gygax or ancient folklore and myth does. And yes, most all of them were done for trademark purposes. As a child of the 1980's practically every toy I had was from that same vein. So I am not going to suddenly throw stones now.
Are you saying you were born in the 80s and talking about 90s toys? Because 80s toys really weren't named that way. Many were just really simple puns, like 'Soundwave,' 'Shipwreck' and 'Venger.' There was a strong emphasis on each toy having a unique 'identity' as marketing ploy.
Generic Nounverb Adjectivenoun (and its variations) is a very 21st century thing tried by a lot of a gaming companies. You can see WotC do it during D&D 3rd edition as they went from Monster Manual 3 to MM 4, and their collectible minis during the same period.
The Karkadrak is just confusing, since Krakadrak is an Old World dwarfhold.
I am saying things in the 1980s were given names for trademark purposes like now. Not that they are following 21st century game naming conventions which probably exist since it is easier to trademark those names while not being letter salad every time. I think in the case of D&D it more of thing that they were running out of monster name ideas. I never bothered with anything beyond the first one, but weren't there a lot of Lesser, Greater, switching the nouns around (as in wolfwere which I know is from at least 2nd ed too), different material/element or some variation on existing monsters with a twist in the latter D&D monster manuals? I remember skimming through one and that being the case.
I am sure Karkadrak is less confusing that anything Vampire the Requiem did. Which is how I largely view AoS. The designers took things they liked from the world that was and bring it into Age of Sigmar which may or may not be the same as it was. Maybe Karkadraks were first encountered in the ruins of Krakadrak and called something like lizards of Krakadrak. Over time, the name of the ruins faded from memory but the lizards became an ever present threat now are only associated with the name Krakadrak.
karkadrak seems more like smashing together "Karcharos" and "drakon" from greek to mean "shark dragon" which isnt the worst (or the best) description of the thing.
for what is worth I like the name, and as Im not familiar with the old hammer.dwarf.holds (always and forever a Tilean dog of.war!) don't find it confusing.
Carlovonsexron wrote: karkadrak seems more like smashing together "Karcharos" and "drakon" from greek to mean "shark dragon" which isnt the worst (or the best) description of the thing.
for what is worth I like the name, and as Im not familiar with the old hammer.dwarf.holds (always and forever a Tilean dog of.war!) don't find it confusing.
Actually I think it may also take some inspiration from the Karkadann, which is a mythical creature that is described as a scaly rhinoceros with a poisonous/medicinal horn. It even has the rhino horn. So maybe Karka- from the mythical scaled rhinoceros, and -drakk from dragon.
Carlovonsexron wrote: karkadrak seems more like smashing together "Karcharos" and "drakon" from greek to mean "shark dragon" which isnt the worst (or the best) description of the thing.
for what is worth I like the name, and as Im not familiar with the old hammer.dwarf.holds (always and forever a Tilean dog of.war!) don't find it confusing.
Actually I think it may also take some inspiration from the Karkadann, which is a mythical creature that is described as a scaly rhinoceros with a poisonous/medicinal horn. It even has the rhino horn. So maybe Karka- from the mythical scaled rhinoceros, and -drakk from dragon.
That does make sense. Reminds me of the Idoneth Allopex, which is a combination of allopus (scientific name for thresher shark) and apex.
Fun fact - over on the TGA forums someone noticed that several of the recent "model hint rumour images" could be linked together and appears t obe as ramshackle and have a big stump leg rather like a certain walking skeleton ship from Vampire Coast in TW Warhammer (which took its source from an old GW White Dwarf and FW model army years back)(.
Overread wrote: Fun fact - over on the TGA forums someone noticed that several of the recent "model hint rumour images" could be linked together and appears t obe as ramshackle and have a big stump leg rather like a certain walking skeleton ship from Vampire Coast in TW Warhammer (which took its source from an old GW White Dwarf and FW model army years back)(.
I'd go with it being something for the Grotbag Scuttlers rather than Pirate Vampires (in AoS Nagash has the undead pretty much under his bony thumb).
Overread wrote: Fun fact - over on the TGA forums someone noticed that several of the recent "model hint rumour images" could be linked together and appears t obe as ramshackle and have a big stump leg rather like a certain walking skeleton ship from Vampire Coast in TW Warhammer (which took its source from an old GW White Dwarf and FW model army years back)(.
I'd go with it being something for the Grotbag Scuttlers rather than Pirate Vampires (in AoS Nagash has the undead pretty much under his bony thumb).
There has been a pirate vampire fleet referenced in the lore, plus the undead - especially the vampires always chaff under his grip.
Overread wrote: Fun fact - over on the TGA forums someone noticed that several of the recent "model hint rumour images" could be linked together and appears t obe as ramshackle and have a big stump leg rather like a certain walking skeleton ship from Vampire Coast in TW Warhammer (which took its source from an old GW White Dwarf and FW model army years back)(.
I'd go with it being something for the Grotbag Scuttlers rather than Pirate Vampires (in AoS Nagash has the undead pretty much under his bony thumb).
There has been a pirate vampire fleet referenced in the lore, plus the undead - especially the vampires always chaff under his grip.
Yeah, but I want to see the Grotbag Scuttlers first...
Carlovonsexron wrote: karkadrak seems more like smashing together "Karcharos" and "drakon" from greek to mean "shark dragon" which isnt the worst (or the best) description of the thing.
for what is worth I like the name, and as Im not familiar with the old hammer.dwarf.holds (always and forever a Tilean dog of.war!) don't find it confusing.
Actually I think it may also take some inspiration from the Karkadann, which is a mythical creature that is described as a scaly rhinoceros with a poisonous/medicinal horn. It even has the rhino horn. So maybe Karka- from the mythical scaled rhinoceros, and -drakk from dragon.
Overread wrote: Fun fact - over on the TGA forums someone noticed that several of the recent "model hint rumour images" could be linked together and appears t obe as ramshackle and have a big stump leg rather like a certain walking skeleton ship from Vampire Coast in TW Warhammer (which took its source from an old GW White Dwarf and FW model army years back)(.
I'd go with it being something for the Grotbag Scuttlers rather than Pirate Vampires (in AoS Nagash has the undead pretty much under his bony thumb).
There has been a pirate vampire fleet referenced in the lore, plus the undead - especially the vampires always chaff under his grip.
Yeah, but I want to see the Grotbag Scuttlers first...
That's a common misconception. You actually want Vampirates first. It's a scientifically proven fact.
Ever since the sky dwarfs got their big ship I've been considering converting it with an undead crew. Though as with most other projects involving GW models that never happened. I wouldn't mind if I successfully procrastinated so long that GW releases the real deal.
Plus, I wouldn't mind if they released a new undead faction I actually like.
Aw yeah. I wonder if the contents of the box mean Skywardens or Riggers are now battleline.
I hope and pray they learned their lessons, and KO will be at least as functional as everyone else.
Baloon doctor octopus looks great!
Probably limited release unavailable if you dont preorder right at the preorder weekend.
Great to see AoS keeping up with the non stormcast centered releases though.
I think there’s more than meets the eye.
The video shows larger units than the basic 3 per box, so I wouldn’t mind betting we see quite a bit in there.
The character, 6 endrinriggers and a gunhauler is fairly cost heavy, so could be a nice discount box more than anything.
I wouldn’t mind betting the tzeentch stuff has more than a character, 3 screamers and 3 skyfires either to boost it.
Really love that Endrin Master! Looking forward to getting the box but Jesus that will be the 3rd one in a month..- sisters army box, Nid bioswarm and then this ..might sell the sisters box.. and I need to find someone to take the Tzeentch stuff from the box..
Looks like there might be KO terrain/model -there is the rugby ball shaped Endrin behind the riggers in one clip.. hoping the box set isn't stupidly priced ...
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Jackal90 wrote: I think there’s more than meets the eye.
The video shows larger units than the basic 3 per box, so I wouldn’t mind betting we see quite a bit in there.
The character, 6 endrinriggers and a gunhauler is fairly cost heavy, so could be a nice discount box more than anything.
I wouldn’t mind betting the tzeentch stuff has more than a character, 3 screamers and 3 skyfires either to boost it.
Looks like 6 skyfires which would balance it out model wise..
silverstu wrote: Really love that Endrin Master! Looking forward to getting the box but Jesus that will be the 3rd one in a month..- sisters army box, Nid bioswarm and then this ..might sell the sisters box.. and I need to find someone to take the Tzeentch stuff from the box..
Looks like there might be KO terrain/model -there is the rugby ball shaped Endrin behind the riggers in one clip.. hoping the box set isn't stupidly priced ...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jackal90 wrote: I think there’s more than meets the eye.
The video shows larger units than the basic 3 per box, so I wouldn’t mind betting we see quite a bit in there.
The character, 6 endrinriggers and a gunhauler is fairly cost heavy, so could be a nice discount box more than anything.
I wouldn’t mind betting the tzeentch stuff has more than a character, 3 screamers and 3 skyfires either to boost it.
Looks like 6 skyfires which would balance it out model wise..
Yeah, one of the stills shows the two heroes, the gunhauler, 6 riggers, 3 screamers, and 6 skyfires. I'm assuming that's all of it for this box.
Hopefully some endless spells in the books. Or maybe terrain piece for KO.
Yes, I'll just chime in with another observation that cheaper enlightened via third parties is the only positive I take out of this release.
Especially if the set is priced the same as the last Bonereapers v Ogres box which didn't tempt me for £100 and I really liked the models from that one...
Hopefully we'll see the box-exclusive models released at some point next year. Looncurse was released in March and we're still waiting for the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig and Arch-revenant to drop.
Ghaz wrote: Hopefully we'll see the box-exclusive models released at some point next year. Looncurse was released in January and we're still waiting for the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig and Arch-revenant to drop.
Hell, we're still waiting on the models from the Skaven and Flesh-Eaters box.
I've wanted and unnamed Brokk since KO first came out, but it's hard to get excited about any of these new heroes since they're all stuck in limited edition expensive box sets with no individual releases in sight. So while I would theoretically love more stuff for my long suffering KO army, this gets more of a yawn than a yay from me. And if the new guy is as important to the army as the new ghoul hero was for flesheaters, I'll probably not even worry about the new book and just let my KO army continue collect dust which means I won't be doing my planned expansion of that army either, so that's probably at least a good $300 GW just saved me while I go see what's going on with Kings of War or if Oathmark looks any good.
Not going to lie, I feel this was a very lame Christmas reveal. We get two neat models for AoS (one for a new unit), notification that we are getting tomes for two factions everyone knew were getting tomes and yet another space marine character (because their aren’t 100 of them already). Oh and a made to order.
I would have hoped for at least a Scions of Flame or new Underworlds warband reveal. Or at least a new unit box for something.
Ghaz wrote: Hopefully we'll see the box-exclusive models released at some point next year. Looncurse was released in January and we're still waiting for the Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig and Arch-revenant to drop.
Hell, we're still waiting on the models from the Skaven and Flesh-Eaters box.
Yeah, I play Gloomspite Gitz so that plastic Loonboss is all that matters...
Sabotage! wrote: Not going to lie, I feel this was a very lame Christmas reveal. We get two neat models for AoS (one for a new unit), notification that we are getting tomes for two factions everyone knew were getting tomes and yet another space marine character (because their aren’t 100 of them already). Oh and a made to order.
I would have hoped for at least a Scions of Flame or new Underworlds warband reveal. Or at least a new unit box for something.
The boxed set seems something of a surprise. Christmas reveals aren't necessarily big. Last year was just a video, if a fun one,
I wonder if the "missing" character models for AoS will get rolled into new Start Collecting boxes. Seems like the new StD box may be the approach to some of this stuff moving forward.
Chopstick wrote: Gotta hold those models hostage longer so people feel the need to buy these new increased price battle box more. It's all business.
What battle boxes? Looncurse sold out on the first day and has not had any further production runs.
That's the really frustrating part. At least if they were pushing sales of battle boxes by holding the new heroes hostage, it'd at least make sense even if I didn't like it.
Chopstick wrote: Gotta hold those models hostage longer so people feel the need to buy these new increased price battle box more. It's all business.
What battle boxes? Looncurse sold out on the first day and has not had any further production runs.
All of them from now on, with the knowing that these may or may not be available on the store for a very long time based on previous boxes, people'd want to buy them sooner now. And many of these boxes being sold out (including Feast of Bone with higher price) is an indicator for GW on how to price these box.
Neat concept for a new set, but I’m gonna pass. Looking at it makes me realize I only really wanted more of the ground units for these factions, but, that’s fine.
From the artwork at the end of the video, I assumed the tzneetch sorcerer was a woman, which I thought was cool, since we don’t see many female chaos characters (outside of Slasnesh, & warcry). But it’s a dude...
Also, sidebar: I’m sure it’s been brought up before. But GW has said on several occasions, one of the reasons the 40k squats got cancelled was that tiny dwarf bikers was a silly aesthetic . Yet, strapping dwarfs to balloons, and giving them metal top hats & battle monocles is fine..? Not saying I don’t love the look of KO, but, c’mon GW...
I’m sure it’s been brought up before. But GW has said on several occasions, one of the reasons the 40k squats got cancelled was that tiny dwarf bikers was a silly aesthetic . Yet, strapping dwarfs to balloons, and giving them metal top hats & battle monocles is fine..? Not saying I don’t love the look of KO, but, c’mon GW...
That was old GW from decade ago, and one can't simply talk about silly aesthetic dwarf without mentioning the naked one with weird looking axes, that'd make KO look miles better in comparison.
I already love the balloon units, and I only have one gunhauler, so this is definitely a double-buy for me. I can trade one Tzeentch half and keep the other for warhammer quest. I've always gotten a lot of value out of these boxed sets and I am still kicking myself for not getting Looncurse when it dropped.
bsharitt wrote: I've wanted and unnamed Brokk since KO first came out, but it's hard to get excited about any of these new heroes since they're all stuck in limited edition expensive box sets with no individual releases in sight. So while I would theoretically love more stuff for my long suffering KO army, this gets more of a yawn than a yay from me. And if the new guy is as important to the army as the new ghoul hero was for flesheaters, I'll probably not even worry about the new book and just let my KO army continue collect dust which means I won't be doing my planned expansion of that army either, so that's probably at least a good $300 GW just saved me while I go see what's going on with Kings of War or if Oathmark looks any good.
Someone sold half their BoneOgre box to the FLGS and I got my Tyrant second hand
Equinox wrote: I wonder if the "missing" character models for AoS will get rolled into new Start Collecting boxes. Seems like the new StD box may be the approach to some of this stuff moving forward.
Equinox wrote: I wonder if the "missing" character models for AoS will get rolled into new Start Collecting boxes. Seems like the new StD box may be the approach to some of this stuff moving forward.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Little birdie told me that the Bonetithe Nexus is going Direct Only.
Not sure if this was known previously, or if this is the fate of all faction-specific non-modular terrain pieces, but I thought I should pass it on.
They are good sized kits that would take up a decent amount of shelf space, yet players would only need one for their army so it wouldn't have a quick turnover on stock. It makes sense that they would be Direct Only just so long as the independents can still get them for their customers.
drbored wrote: Tbh the main thing I'm excited about from this Aetherwar release is that it means there's only one major battletome left to update:
Seraphon.
Aw yeah, the gloomspite treatment
Range refresh? Please.
Plastic everything. New big dino, awesome terrain, flavorful rules, wonderful background, so much could and should be done.
But I have to say, I really like the boxset too. I was looking for an excuse to start KO.
I was referencing seraphon. I'm looking forward to properly realized saurus/
H.B.M.C. wrote:Little birdie told me that the Bonetithe Nexus is going Direct Only.
Not sure if this was known previously, or if this is the fate of all faction-specific non-modular terrain pieces, but I thought I should pass it on.
Good thing i got it for christmas!
As was I, I was just commenting on what we have that's coming/concrete. The Aetherstorm box.
I have a sneaking suspicion our SC box will be gone, and we will see either a skink themed sc or a brand new push-fit/easy to build sauras box with knights, warriors and a scar vet/oldblood of some kind. Maybe foot, maybe on cold one.
But like the S2D, they'll keep the old plastic infantry and knights.
Did anyone else notice the ship behind the skywardens in the video? It has an endrin that is not a sphere but more like an oval. At first I thought it was just a trick of the shot but watching it again you can see a mast that is not on any ko ship. Could this be a 'sneak peak'? It also is very weird that they obscured the ship the way they did. Why hide it behind a hill that way?
Pael wrote: Did anyone else notice the ship behind the skywardens in the video? It has an endrin that is not a sphere but more like an oval. At first I thought it was just a trick of the shot but watching it again you can see a mast that is not on any ko ship. Could this be a 'sneak peak'? It also is very weird that they obscured the ship the way they did. Why hide it behind a hill that way?
yeah, given how lumpy it looks, and how the release schedule looked for revamped books this year, I'd not expect anything beyond book, warscroll cards and the actual 2-player box for either army.
Cronch wrote: yeah, given how lumpy it looks, and how the release schedule looked for revamped books this year, I'd not expect anything beyond book, warscroll cards and the actual 2-player box for either army.
Tzeentch had better get endless spells and faction terrain; I guess I could live without terrain, but I'll be damned if KHORNE gets endless spells and Tzeentch doesn't.
I’m sure it’s been brought up before. But GW has said on several occasions, one of the reasons the 40k squats got cancelled was that tiny dwarf bikers was a silly aesthetic . Yet, strapping dwarfs to balloons, and giving them metal top hats & battle monocles is fine..? Not saying I don’t love the look of KO, but, c’mon GW...
That was old GW from decade ago, and one can't simply talk about silly aesthetic dwarf without mentioning the naked one with weird looking axes, that'd make KO look miles better in comparison.
Looking at an old WD, The old dwarves had a perfect aesthetic. A gleam in the eye, a middle finger, sass and crass, tough lil bastards. The sculpts were awesome.The new KOs never appealed to me like the old dwarves did. I want sass and crass bearded bad-asses with a grudge and a mug.. not steam punk dwarves.
The old dwarves were fine, if lacking flair, but they suffered from being sculpted like actual barrels with limbs, no hips or shoulders to let them move like humanoids.
I had a feeling Aether War and the new battletomes were going on pre-order next week since they didn't save the reveal for the New Year Open Day next Saturday.
I’m sure it’s been brought up before. But GW has said on several occasions, one of the reasons the 40k squats got cancelled was that tiny dwarf bikers was a silly aesthetic . Yet, strapping dwarfs to balloons, and giving them metal top hats & battle monocles is fine..? Not saying I don’t love the look of KO, but, c’mon GW...
That was old GW from decade ago, and one can't simply talk about silly aesthetic dwarf without mentioning the naked one with weird looking axes, that'd make KO look miles better in comparison.
Then again, the new dwarf aesthetic has a steam punk inspiration, which I believe is still cool? Certainly was when they were released. It is silly, but it’s a silly the current zeitgeist embraces.
I’m pretty sure hairy bearded bikers on Harley’s stopped being ‘cool’ in the early 90s. Cool silly trumps lame silly.
It wasn't just that dwarves in space were "too silly" it was also that basically no one in the design studio wanted to nor had the inspiration to make them. So they got dropped mostly cause no one at GW cared to make them enough at the time.
It's a worrying downside to a "studio design led team" that I'm sure might be part of the reason why some armies get ignored for insanely long periods of time before they get resurrected.
dogfender wrote: I feel like the tzeentch endless spells were a kissed opportunity to make a rather large upscale version of single brimstone horror or a duo.. Oh well
So you wanted a generic fire elemental model? Thank goodness GW went with something that was at least a little bit more original.
I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...
Sqorgar wrote: I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...
That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.
2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.
It also pushes the prices down on eBay too.
Would have been nice to see arkonauts in this set just for that reason alone.
Sqorgar wrote: I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...
It's not an inflated cost if it's cheaper than the contents are individually? If so then your ire should be directed at the original kit, not the discount box.
That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.
First of all, I don't think this is the primary way people consume these sets. Some do, sure, but I doubt even the majority of purchasers are splitting sets. If I had to guess, I'd say the majority of consumers here are either hoarders (like me) who just collect models in easily digestible bundles, or someone interested in starting or adding to both the armies included in the box. Of the ones who split them, probably the biggest group is people who split it with a friend. Then the people who buy the box for (the popular) half of the models and end up selling the (less popular) other half for a significant discount. Then there's the guys who want to unpopular half and get a great deal on them, and finally, players who actually try to use these things as two player starter boxes, despite being far too expensive and obtuse for such a goal.
Basically, only the people who want the unpopular half are actually getting a good deal, and everybody else is dealing with an acceptable discount that is far less than advertised.
Second, these sets tend to be much more worthwhile when you can add a Start Collecting set onto the two player box. For instance, Looncurse was great for Sylvaneth players because you could take the Looncurse and Start Collecting boxes and have a good start on an army with no overlap.
2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.
It only gives a discount if you were actually planning on buying those exact models. The reason why bundling works is that it allows you to sell things which aren't great selling along with the stuff that is, making the customer believe that they got a great discount when they actually spent more than they would've in the first place. The reason why Blood of the Phoenix was bs was because it included a bunch of big, expensive crappy models in with the nice, new ones, making the discount basically the equivalent of a tank nobody even wanted for free.
The discount only matters if you were going to buy it anyway. If you weren't, then you are spending more money to save money on buying the thing you wouldn't have bought otherwise, which is a uniquely human mind trick.
Personally, I'd like to see GW make a bigger effort at making these boxes into actual two-player starter products rather than eBay fodder for people enamored with buying time-limited items they dont' need because GW never gives them enough time to actually consider not buying it.
That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.
First of all, I don't think this is the primary way people consume these sets. Some do, sure, but I doubt even the majority of purchasers are splitting sets. If I had to guess, I'd say the majority of consumers here are either hoarders (like me) who just collect models in easily digestible bundles, or someone interested in starting or adding to both the armies included in the box. Of the ones who split them, probably the biggest group is people who split it with a friend. Then the people who buy the box for (the popular) half of the models and end up selling the (less popular) other half for a significant discount. Then there's the guys who want to unpopular half and get a great deal on them, and finally, players who actually try to use these things as two player starter boxes, despite being far too expensive and obtuse for such a goal.
Basically, only the people who want the unpopular half are actually getting a good deal, and everybody else is dealing with an acceptable discount that is far less than advertised.
Second, these sets tend to be much more worthwhile when you can add a Start Collecting set onto the two player box. For instance, Looncurse was great for Sylvaneth players because you could take the Looncurse and Start Collecting boxes and have a good start on an army with no overlap.
2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.
It only gives a discount if you were actually planning on buying those exact models. The reason why bundling works is that it allows you to sell things which aren't great selling along with the stuff that is, making the customer believe that they got a great discount when they actually spent more than they would've in the first place. The reason why Blood of the Phoenix was bs was because it included a bunch of big, expensive crappy models in with the nice, new ones, making the discount basically the equivalent of a tank nobody even wanted for free.
The discount only matters if you were going to buy it anyway. If you weren't, then you are spending more money to save money on buying the thing you wouldn't have bought otherwise, which is a uniquely human mind trick.
Personally, I'd like to see GW make a bigger effort at making these boxes into actual two-player starter products rather than eBay fodder for people enamored with buying time-limited items they dont' need because GW never gives them enough time to actually consider not buying it.
A set that contains 2 armies plus all of the rules to play them against each other.
That’s a 2 player set.
It doesn’t matter what you want it to be, that won’t change what it is.
It’s a deal for both players.
The “less popular” half has literally 0 meaning if someone actually wants it and splits the set with another person.
Overlap isn’t a bad thing at all.
The new Battletome is also landing and judging by the new hero, I’d say riggers/wardens have a battle line option.
If that is the case then the overlap for them is actually a good thing.
Now, considering the set is actually based as battles in the air, what other KO units would you prefer in this set?
I’m not seeing any that will fit the criteria while remaining reasonable.
I get that you don’t like the contents, but it is what it is.
There is still a decent discount for players that want the stuff.
The Tzeentch spells are fun. I like the icon and the book.
Wish they'd do ones for the Skydorfs though - "Mechanical Machinations" would work - as well as terrain for them (and everyone who doesn't yet have terrain).
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Tzeentch spells are fun. I like the icon and the book.
Wish they'd do ones for the Skydorfs though - "Mechanical Machinations" would work - as well as terrain for them (and everyone who doesn't yet have terrain).
I prefer “Aethermantic Emanations” myself - they already have a wizard and priest equivalents in the aetheric navigators and aether-khemists so why not roll with that?
They could even be unique in that they require the Khemist to “cast” them (dispersing the appropriate gas from his anatomiser) but the Navigator to control them (by manipulating the winds) because they aren’t “real” living spells but self-sustains alchemical reactions.
Sqorgar wrote: I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...
That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.
2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.
It also pushes the prices down on eBay too.
Would have been nice to see arkonauts in this set just for that reason alone.
That assumes that the hauler is worth something. Given how universally "meh" those cheap-ish monster units are (see Allopex), I have doubts. As it is, getting the hero off ebay will be the best course of action for an established KO player. Unless he's just bad, in which case ignore him and the whole box too.
Sqorgar wrote: I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...
That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.
2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.
It also pushes the prices down on eBay too.
Would have been nice to see arkonauts in this set just for that reason alone.
That assumes that the hauler is worth something. Given how universally "meh" those cheap-ish monster units are (see Allopex), I have doubts. As it is, getting the hero off ebay will be the best course of action for an established KO player. Unless he's just bad, in which case ignore him and the whole box too.
And you are assuming that units roles and abilities won’t change either.
As it appears, there is now a new battle line option in the army depending on the general.
So straight away that’s an entirely new build option for lists.
The hauler is currently “meh” levels, but so it almost everything for KO.
Judging by book release patterns, KO should get a solid book as StD got an average-decent one.
And these sets aren’t for established players, that’s the whole idea for a 2 player starter set.
So what would you change for the KO in this set?
I'd say 90% ish of the two-army sets bought in my community are split between two players.
Like the endless spells but was expecting the Tzeentch ones to be an order of magnitude greater than normal ones. For Tzeentch specifically they seem a bit... Tame?
Like the endless spells but was expecting the Tzeentch ones to be an order of magnitude greater than normal ones. For Tzeentch specifically they seem a bit... Tame?
Well, let's see what they do, first. Personally, I'm hoping that an army so heavily dependent on its magic will see a huge bump in that area, given all the anti-magic we've been seeing this year.
Like the endless spells but was expecting the Tzeentch ones to be an order of magnitude greater than normal ones. For Tzeentch specifically they seem a bit... Tame?
Well, let's see what they do, first. Personally, I'm hoping that an army so heavily dependent on its magic will see a huge bump in that area, given all the anti-magic we've been seeing this year.
I was referencing visuals. Obviously the effects could still be crazy, and even if they weren't Tzeentch's ability to cast spells reliably makes them comparatively stronger.
Or, in plain English: Aether Wars is a good set unless you are part of the minority tournament players in which case it isn’t , but you willl still buy it anyway for the two exclusive characters through fear either or both unlock some kind of netlist.
I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.
Jackal90 wrote: I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.
Jackal90 wrote: I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.
That's already been addressed.
How the hell did I miss that? Lol.
Where about sis that please?
Jackal90 wrote: I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.
That's already been addressed.
How the hell did I miss that? Lol.
Where about sis that please?
Jackal90 wrote: I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.
That's already been addressed.
How the hell did I miss that? Lol.
Where about sis that please?
In the designers commentary for core rules.
Thank you!
I’d never checked that for some reason.
Guess I’m now ordering 9 steam tanks lol.
Eh. The aether-share system is annoying from a fluff perspective. They describe it as a desperation move when the 'chips are down,' but since it's granting rerolls and what not it's obviously best used early when at full strength so you get the most value out of it.
Sounds like they got a lot of customization options though. Hope those aren't as open to sheninangans as I imagine.
Wow are those Tzeentch spells seriously all just parts of the Lord of Change digital file with extra flame thrown in? Setting new records for a half-assed release here.
The changes to boat interactions make sense. Making them garrisons not only forces the attacker to split attention, but also...you know, makes damn sense given the boats were the main focus of the army. All that remains to be seen is if the weapons and armor of the army got fixed so they can actually be a threat now, or if the little le quirks are going to be replacement for that...
Or, if you don't want to pay GW terrain prices for fancy basing, you can just order thicker straight clear acrylic rods off ebay for a fraction of the price.
Voss wrote: Eh. The aether-share system is annoying from a fluff perspective. They describe it as a desperation move when the 'chips are down,' but since it's granting rerolls and what not it's obviously best used early when at full strength so you get the most value out of it.
For the battle to be taking place the chips are already down; the KO are up against an enemy force of similar strength, victory is far from guaranteed, and most importantly they weren't able to beat them into submission with preliminary bombardment.
Yodhrin wrote: Or, if you don't want to pay GW terrain prices for fancy basing, you can just order thicker straight clear acrylic rods off ebay for a fraction of the price.
The ships, in and of themselves, seem to stay on the bases fairly well once glued.
The balloons are the issue, and a single set of Azyrite Ruins can be used for something like 9 of them provided someone is willing to use a hacksaw.
I did similar using the Suppressors and a single box of the 40k ruins.
I hope they're still kind of glass-cannons. Turn 1 sky highs across the board to fill you full of holes feel problematic. But it might not be that big a deal depending on what exactly changes.
Knight wrote: I'm happy that they made a sub faction that allows inclusion of other dwarf models. Would hope they do the same for the elves.
There's not really any Elves to bring in anymore.
With that snarkiness out of the way, most Elf factions are in Cities of Sigmar now. The others(Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth) aren't really on friendly terms with the other Elf factions, and Sylvaneth aren't Elves.
We'll see what they'll do. Personally don't see the Hysh Elves working together with IDK, unless there's another End Times event. The Court of the Blind King did portray the IDK as rather fluid and pragmatic, however, how much can that be taken as an indicator is a different matter.
I do hope Phoenix Temple and Sisters of the Watch are allies to the Hysh Elves and follow the same restrictions as SCE in CoS. It's simply more elegant and allows more playful compositions.
I'll be honest in regard to Sylvaneth, the more lore I read the less I understand how they can be allies to anyone.
That’s pretty decent to be fair.
Was expecting BoTP pricing on this one or there abouts any way.
The sky stunties side is around £100 alone (assuming the bigger character has the typical £20+ price)
Jackal90 wrote: Was expecting BoTP pricing on this one or there abouts any way.
Blood of the Phoenix obviously overstepped in pricing, and GW dialed it back to $185 for the next two army release - which is just enough to irritate, but not enrage. This will be the new standard box price until 40k's new starter set comes out at BotP pricing, which will break the $200 barrier and still be successful. This will allow them to raise the boil a little more, and this time next year, BotP pricing will be the new standard and GW fans will still be telling us that we should be thankful for such a great deal.
AoS has a bit of a buffer in that whilst AoS has been out for around 5 years, its only in the last year and a half that its had the full marketing, community and rules swing going into full effect. So for many these aren't just battleboxes to expand their army with 1 or 2 new models; they are starting points for new armies for either new gamers or those who have eyed up wanting to start an army (perhaps for many of those 5 years) and finally getting a chance too.
So getting a battlebox with a smattering of good units and something unique and new really works well for them.
Pheonix has the issue that both armies are quite "old" in 40K (Eldar especially) so whilst there certainly are new people starting up both; I'd wager as a percentage of those interested its smaller than for AoS. So lots of those who want the new models already have the falcon and the viper and the other stuff. In fact they've got loads of them. So there's far less desire for them to want those models - it also makes them harder to pass on second hand because the armies are so much more popular for so long that those models have been floating around for a good while now.
Of course it also doesn't help that the new models are also troops not leaders so those interested want 10 or 20 or however many rather than just 1. In fact geting a set with only 5 almost feels more like a tease so theres more pressure to get them on ebay or only if you can find a person who wants the other half and is getting their own set to swap over.
Add all that to a price that was a fair bit higher than previous duel boxies and, yeah, it all came together to lower sales interest. I think the best thing is that we hope to see the new models from those boxed sets start to appear much sooner. I'm really hoping that, AoS at least, gets some news on this in the New Year reveal event. Skaven and FleshEaters have had new models held in limbo for nearly a whole year now. That's a whole year where its ebay stupidly high price or blind luck getting a decent deal.
Overread wrote: Blood of the Phoenix has other issues though.
AoS has a bit of a buffer in that whilst AoS has been out for around 5 years, its only in the last year and a half that its had the full marketing, community and rules swing going into full effect. So for many these aren't just battleboxes to expand their army with 1 or 2 new models; they are starting points for new armies for either new gamers or those who have eyed up wanting to start an army (perhaps for many of those 5 years) and finally getting a chance too.
So getting a battlebox with a smattering of good units and something unique and new really works well for them.
Pheonix has the issue that both armies are quite "old" in 40K (Eldar especially) so whilst there certainly are new people starting up both; I'd wager as a percentage of those interested its smaller than for AoS. So lots of those who want the new models already have the falcon and the viper and the other stuff. In fact they've got loads of them. So there's far less desire for them to want those models - it also makes them harder to pass on second hand because the armies are so much more popular for so long that those models have been floating around for a good while now.
Of course it also doesn't help that the new models are also troops not leaders so those interested want 10 or 20 or however many rather than just 1. In fact geting a set with only 5 almost feels more like a tease so theres more pressure to get them on ebay or only if you can find a person who wants the other half and is getting their own set to swap over.
Add all that to a price that was a fair bit higher than previous duel boxies and, yeah, it all came together to lower sales interest. I think the best thing is that we hope to see the new models from those boxed sets start to appear much sooner. I'm really hoping that, AoS at least, gets some news on this in the New Year reveal event. Skaven and FleshEaters have had new models held in limbo for nearly a whole year now. That's a whole year where its ebay stupidly high price or blind luck getting a decent deal.
The AoS version of conquest features limit characters like the arch reagent, so that should floor the prices nicely with any luck.
Besides, the amount I’ve been tormented by the damn things I’m kind of glad they aren’t everywhere.
Only limited hero I grabbed was the loonboss on giant cave squig as none of the others interested me as I can always convert those.
Do we have any more word on the Hysh Rumors? I’m thinking that we will see something at LVO, but do we know what we might be seeing? With the hints of something big I wonder if it might not be our first ‘knight’ sized army for AoS. Maybe some of the distant relative of the Sky titans the Ogors didn’t eat.
Jackal90 wrote: Was expecting BoTP pricing on this one or there abouts any way.
Blood of the Phoenix obviously overstepped in pricing, and GW dialed it back to $185 for the next two army release - which is just enough to irritate, but not enrage. This will be the new standard box price until 40k's new starter set comes out at BotP pricing, which will break the $200 barrier and still be successful. This will allow them to raise the boil a little more, and this time next year, BotP pricing will be the new standard and GW fans will still be telling us that we should be thankful for such a great deal.
Kendo wrote: Do we have any more word on the Hysh Rumors? I’m thinking that we will see something at LVO, but do we know what we might be seeing? With the hints of something big I wonder if it might not be our first ‘knight’ sized army for AoS. Maybe some of the distant relative of the Sky titans the Ogors didn’t eat.
Jackal90 wrote: Was expecting BoTP pricing on this one or there abouts any way.
Blood of the Phoenix obviously overstepped in pricing, and GW dialed it back to $185 for the next two army release - which is just enough to irritate, but not enrage. This will be the new standard box price until 40k's new starter set comes out at BotP pricing, which will break the $200 barrier and still be successful. This will allow them to raise the boil a little more, and this time next year, BotP pricing will be the new standard and GW fans will still be telling us that we should be thankful for such a great deal.
If you feel the price is too high, don't buy it. That's what "voting with your wallet" means. If others are still buying it, sorry to say you've been outvoted. That's capitalism for ya.
NinthMusketeer wrote:That is how inflation works, yes.
The US inflation rate for 2019 was about 2%, but the price increase from Looncure to Blood of the Phoenix was about 70% in just a few months. GW must be an overachiever! Just like they are at currency exchange rates!
There's plenty of things to defend GW on, but the constant, obscene price raises that have taken us from $100 big boxes to $230 big boxes in a few years is NOT "how inflation works", nor is it defensible as a consumer. GW has gone from "it's a bit expensive" to "it is literally cheaper to have a cocaine addiction".
EnTyme wrote:If you feel the price is too high, don't buy it. That's what "voting with your wallet" means. If others are still buying it, sorry to say you've been outvoted. That's capitalism for ya.
As far as Blood of the Phoenix is concerned, others weren't buying it. Saw it on a Black Friday say for $150 and it still didn't sell out. So much so that it returned as a deal of the day at GameNerdz last week... and still didn't sell out. The price was, objectively, too high. Which is why Feast of Bones was cheaper. That they'd choose to make $185 the new normal means that $185 was, objectively, not too high - though I think GW is skating the razor's edge with it.
GW is expensive, and I get that. But I'd have far less of a problem with them if their "inflation" was 5% a year, rather than 20%. I think $230 is going to be just as expensive next year as it is this year, but GW desperately wants to break the $200 barrier. As customers, I don't think we should let them, or else the boxes will be $285 in 2021.
NinthMusketeer wrote:That is how inflation works, yes.
The US inflation rate for 2019 was about 2%, but the price increase from Looncure to Blood of the Phoenix was about 70% in just a few months. GW must be an overachiever! Just like they are at currency exchange rates!
There's plenty of things to defend GW on, but the constant, obscene price raises that have taken us from $100 big boxes to $230 big boxes in a few years is NOT "how inflation works", nor is it defensible as a consumer. GW has gone from "it's a bit expensive" to "it is literally cheaper to have a cocaine addiction".
EnTyme wrote:If you feel the price is too high, don't buy it. That's what "voting with your wallet" means. If others are still buying it, sorry to say you've been outvoted. That's capitalism for ya.
As far as Blood of the Phoenix is concerned, others weren't buying it. Saw it on a Black Friday say for $150 and it still didn't sell out. So much so that it returned as a deal of the day at GameNerdz last week... and still didn't sell out. The price was, objectively, too high. Which is why Feast of Bones was cheaper. That they'd choose to make $185 the new normal means that $185 was, objectively, not too high - though I think GW is skating the razor's edge with it.
GW is expensive, and I get that. But I'd have far less of a problem with them if their "inflation" was 5% a year, rather than 20%. I think $230 is going to be just as expensive next year as it is this year, but GW desperately wants to break the $200 barrier. As customers, I don't think we should let them, or else the boxes will be $285 in 2021.
they raise the prices until they find the limit of margin vs sales
if they sell less but still earn more, the prices will go up with the next set until the sales are low enough to affect the earnings
multiple different starter boxes are the perfect way to test the price limit
Sure because nothing says showing a great example like comparing an apple to an orange.
Feast of bones, looncurse etc are the best comparisons as it’s from the same line and designed to be the exact same thing with swapped out armies.
NinthMusketeer wrote:That is how inflation works, yes.
The US inflation rate for 2019 was about 2%, but the price increase from Looncure to Blood of the Phoenix was about 70% in just a few months. GW must be an overachiever! Just like they are at currency exchange rates!
There's plenty of things to defend GW on, but the constant, obscene price raises that have taken us from $100 big boxes to $230 big boxes in a few years is NOT "how inflation works", nor is it defensible as a consumer. GW has gone from "it's a bit expensive" to "it is literally cheaper to have a cocaine addiction".
EnTyme wrote:If you feel the price is too high, don't buy it. That's what "voting with your wallet" means. If others are still buying it, sorry to say you've been outvoted. That's capitalism for ya.
As far as Blood of the Phoenix is concerned, others weren't buying it. Saw it on a Black Friday say for $150 and it still didn't sell out. So much so that it returned as a deal of the day at GameNerdz last week... and still didn't sell out. The price was, objectively, too high. Which is why Feast of Bones was cheaper. That they'd choose to make $185 the new normal means that $185 was, objectively, not too high - though I think GW is skating the razor's edge with it.
GW is expensive, and I get that. But I'd have far less of a problem with them if their "inflation" was 5% a year, rather than 20%. I think $230 is going to be just as expensive next year as it is this year, but GW desperately wants to break the $200 barrier. As customers, I don't think we should let them, or else the boxes will be $285 in 2021.
If you take the time to compare historical box set pricing in line with inflation instead of cherry-picking results you'll find the price increases become quite reasonable given the massive improvement of product quality. If you want to criticize GW pricing, box sets are the worst possible place to do it.
Of course you are the same person who assured me I would have buyers remorse over the last starter set, where at the end of the day I spent $90 for 8 ironguts, 8 leadbelchers, 2 ironblasters, and 2 tyrants.
lord_blackfang wrote: Wow are those Tzeentch spells seriously all just parts of the Lord of Change digital file with extra flame thrown in? Setting new records for a half-assed release here.
Pretty close, yea.
I look forward to cheap bits for LoC heads though.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lords of Change have a means to get around the "one per turn casting" limit on spells. Perhaps even a signature spell that they can chain cast without limit. This would allow them to generate enough fury to summon more to the table; which in turn also feeds into the whole idea of summoning more Lords of Change.
It might be a near repeat of the Slaanesh depravity trick, only with even more of a focus on the Lords of Change as the vector and summoning subject.
Kanluwen wrote: You'll get Slaanesh mortals when Slaanesh can exert its power again.
Also, don't complain when Maggotkin get revised. It's probably going to be soon given that KO and Tzeentch are getting done now.
Perhaps, but they don't need a whole lot of work to be 2.0 compliant, so it might just be a tome release alongside another faction.
On the topic of Tzeentch, what they've shown looks fluffy to me. The Tzeentch player locally is already looking at Acolytes instead of Horrors as his filler.
I was under the impression that the Nurgle Battletome was already 2.0 compliant and that, like a few others, the only real outstanding element is terrain and/or endless spells. Neither of which requires a new book to be released in order to be added to the army.
It should be noted also that terrian and spells, whilst very common, are not guaranteed to be released for 2.0 Battletomes. Idoneth, Nurgle, Daughters of Khaine, Ogors, Orruks, Cities and KO all lack endless spells or similar mechanic spells. Meanwhile many of those forces also lack a terrain feature (and it seems that Tzeentch will also lack a terrain feature).
The next army to be updated will be either a new army (not all that likely considering Sisters of Battle are to be launched soon and Ossiarchs were only recently launched) or (far more likely) Seraphon .
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Kanluwen wrote: You'll get Slaanesh mortals when Slaanesh can exert its power again.
.
Slaanesh hasn't actually stopped. See the majority of the mortal interaction with Chaos is most often done through the Greater Demons rather than the actual God. Even Skaven follow the same pattern with the Great Horned Rat having notably hardly appeared at all to the Skaven. The same is true of the other Chaos Gods, most times its Greater Demons pulling the strings of the mortals.
So as long as the Greater Demons are around, Slaanesh can keep going as normal. Demons corrupting the innocent to form a powerbase for themselves. Heck some might even be more active now as they seek to usurp the empty throne and impose their own will upon all of Slaanesh whilst the actual Prince is imprisoned
Brian888 wrote: Doesn’t Nurgle already have terrain (the Feculent Gnarlmaw)?
It does. Nurgle is lacking Endless Spells and potentially subfaction rules. There's also the door for maybe an unridden Maggoth and Pestigors. We've had art of a Maggoth like beast in 40k accompanying the Death Guard and Pestigors got a prominent mention in the Death Guard plaguefleet mentions.
Eh. Some of the changes sound interesting, but that's a lot more book-keeping and accounting than I want to do over the course of a game.
Announcing 'hidden agendas', destiny dice, fate points, unit abilities changed to spells just for a minor buff (which might actually be a nerf if they stay at 5+ to hit with no way to get a hit bonus).
(And the example agenda is... unlikely. Hope the others aren't worse)
I look forward to how many extra models people will need to drop all those chaos spawn and lords of change on the table, however.
But not necessarily Horrors. Those seem better as mortal wound bombs, than putting increasingly ineffective infantry models on the field. Though I could see an argument for pink to double blue and then to mortal wounds.
Voss wrote: Eh. Some of the changes sound interesting, but that's a lot more book-keeping and accounting than I want to do over the course of a game.
Announcing 'hidden agendas', destiny dice, fate points, unit abilities changed to spells just for a minor buff (which might actually be a nerf if they stay at 5+ to hit with no way to get a hit bonus).
(And the example agenda is... unlikely. Hope the others aren't worse)
I look forward to how many extra models people will need to drop all those chaos spawn and lords of change on the table, however.
But not necessarily Horrors. Those seem better as mortal wound bombs, than putting increasingly ineffective infantry models on the field. Though I could see an argument for pink to double blue and then to mortal wounds.
Each Pink Horror takes 5 wounds to fully remove from the battle. 10 is a 50-wound unit. Good luck chewing through that whole thing. Oh, and that '1' in my Destiny pool? That's another d6 Pink Horrors.
Overread wrote: I was under the impression that the Nurgle Battletome was already 2.0 compliant and that, like a few others, the only real outstanding element is terrain and/or endless spells. Neither of which requires a new book to be released in order to be added to the army.
That's correct. Nurgle, Daughters of Khaine, and Idoneth were released in 1.5, but they were designed for 2nd Edition. At most, they could use subfactions and endless spells, but those don't necessarily need a new battletome to implement.
DoK and Idoneth both have subfactions and Idoneth has terrain too. In general many of these additions can be done without a new book. Going forward from after Seraphon I'd not expect to see any AoS armies get a new book unless they also get a BIG model update in terms of adding new models to the range.
Replacing old ones (like replacing lots of old skaven ones) wouldn't need a new book since you're just replacing models. The addition of one or two new models also doesn't need a whole new book - esp as GW now makes the warscrolls free and includes them on the website, app and in the box
What would be a good idea would just be to put out Endless Spells for those 3 armies and put the rules and points on the sheets within the box like they did for Slaanesh updated models in 40k. No new books, just $35 Endless Spell boxes and happy customers. Well, DoK need terrain too.
Nurgle's issue is the Cycle of Contagion allegiance ability is really bad. It tends to only be useful 2-3 turns of the game, and forces spellcasts by an army already hurting for wizards to make it work. The reason Nurgle actually performs decently is due to a handful of exploits, blightkings being undercosted, and summoning giving free extra stuff.
Anyways, looks like Tzeentch will have a number of new exploits to cheese out with. Can hardly believe I'm saying this but I'm actually glad because losing to Tzeentch OP is a hell of a lot less boring than losing to the current front-runners, and it will be satisfying seeing said front runners get blasted.
Voss wrote: Eh. Some of the changes sound interesting, but that's a lot more book-keeping and accounting than I want to do over the course of a game.
Announcing 'hidden agendas', destiny dice, fate points, unit abilities changed to spells just for a minor buff (which might actually be a nerf if they stay at 5+ to hit with no way to get a hit bonus).
(And the example agenda is... unlikely. Hope the others aren't worse)
I look forward to how many extra models people will need to drop all those chaos spawn and lords of change on the table, however.
But not necessarily Horrors. Those seem better as mortal wound bombs, than putting increasingly ineffective infantry models on the field. Though I could see an argument for pink to double blue and then to mortal wounds.
I played agaisnt a Tzeentch list that literally had ALL endless spells. The amount of bookeping he had to do was insane. I ended nearly with a headache just by looking at him play his list. He had like 3-4 papers full of anotations to keep track of what unit had what spells, his pink horror points, his summon points, etc...
I played agaisnt a Tzeentch list that literally had ALL endless spells. The amount of bookeping he had to do was insane. I ended nearly with a headache just by looking at him play his list. He had like 3-4 papers full of anotations to keep track of what unit had what spells, his pink horror points, his summon points, etc...
Which is why Ogres are such a joy to play! Run, hit,and eat things! No things left now? Find another thing!
Fortunately endless spells still cost points, so armies without them aren't at a disadvantage. Yes an endless spell can be overpowered, but so can any other option. That is one point where I am very glad GW did it the way they did.
Now if they could make all endless spells works like the Ossiarch ones do, save they become uncontrolled when the wizard dies.
Yeah. I love endless spells , as they cost points, maybe they are too good, maybe they are too weak, but you can tweak points to adjust them. And if you don't take them, well, you have those points vs a player that has taken them. They aren't different from any kind of unit.
Terrain in the other hand as it is "free", it becomes mandatory and becomes an extra purchase on top of your battletome, or you are losing some of your alligance habilities.
I can see why GW pushed terrain - GW wanted to break into the terrain market in a serious way. Faction terrain was one approach, the other has been games like Warcry and Killteam - Warcry especailly basically makes it so that buying a £40-50 ish block of terrain off GW gives you terrain and a game in one box for your warcry models. They've even interfaced the cards so that different terrain kits can "add together" which adds a bit of a collecting aspect to them.
The only army without native access to endless spells/equivalent I can think of would be Kharadron. Everyone else has access to wizards which can use generic endless spells, or prayers/rituals which are in effect the same thing.
So even if Ogres don't have their own endless spells,they still have access to every endless spell in Malign Sorcery and Forbidden Power expansions. Which is why I think they stopped giving every faction ES- there's only so many ways you can write "move 6" and do D3/D6MW" that most spells amount to.
It's worth noting that the two burning sigil results shown are not conditional (no if or can statements) and don't distinguish friend/enemy
for the first result, if only you have units in 12" you take mortal wounds and for the second if enemies only are in 12" you have to give them +1 attack.
This is potentially game-able except for the lol!random nature of effects.
Voss wrote: The tzeentch endless spells are up.
Quirky.
It's worth noting that the two burning sigil results shown are not conditional (no if or can statements) and don't distinguish friend/enemy
for the first result, if only you have units in 12" you take mortal wounds and for the second if enemies only are in 12" you have to give them +1 attack.
This is potentially game-able except for the lol!random nature of effects.
The way I took it is you roll to see what the sigil does first, then you select the target.
Voss wrote: The tzeentch endless spells are up.
Quirky.
It's worth noting that the two burning sigil results shown are not conditional (no if or can statements) and don't distinguish friend/enemy
for the first result, if only you have units in 12" you take mortal wounds and for the second if enemies only are in 12" you have to give them +1 attack.
This is potentially game-able except for the lol!random nature of effects.
The way I took it is you roll to see what the sigil does first, then you select the target.
Yep. But using the effect isn't optional (at least not once you roll). So if the enemy spent last turn running away and are all out of range and you roll the MW result, you have to apply it to one of your units, as they're the only available target. And it doesn't specify enemy unit, so they are a valid target.
Similarly the attack buff will effect enemy units if they wipe out nearby friendlies. You can't not choose a target.
It's very fitting for a tzeentch spell, but you really have to babysit the thing and keep it near the scrum. If you put it on the flanks and movement or combat results happen it can easily random it's way to being a detriment.
Anyone had or seen similar? Apparently it came to the store from GW just like that. Could be a worrying sign regarding things like Endless Spells and Faction terrain!
Anyone had or seen similar? Apparently it came to the store from GW just like that. Could be a worrying sign regarding things like Endless Spells and Faction terrain!
Local GW store has a shelf that they put stock on with those stickers on them usually just to clear out stock, it's not an indication of a product being discontinued, at worst it will go direct only. The product might not sell well at that store so they've decided not to carry it anymore , there's one or 2 left and when it's gone from the store they won't be restocking it.
I suspect a GW store had an over stock and sent them back sticker and all and it got redistributed as part of another order.
Voss wrote: The tzeentch endless spells are up.
Quirky.
It's worth noting that the two burning sigil results shown are not conditional (no if or can statements) and don't distinguish friend/enemy
for the first result, if only you have units in 12" you take mortal wounds and for the second if enemies only are in 12" you have to give them +1 attack.
This is potentially game-able except for the lol!random nature of effects.
The way I took it is you roll to see what the sigil does first, then you select the target.
Yep. But using the effect isn't optional (at least not once you roll). So if the enemy spent last turn running away and are all out of range and you roll the MW result, you have to apply it to one of your units, as they're the only available target. And it doesn't specify enemy unit, so they are a valid target.
Similarly the attack buff will effect enemy units if they wipe out nearby friendlies. You can't not choose a target.
It's very fitting for a tzeentch spell, but you really have to babysit the thing and keep it near the scrum. If you put it on the flanks and movement or combat results happen it can easily random it's way to being a detriment.
Chaos spawn aren't great but killing off d3 blue horrors or kairics to get one for free does sound nice...
That we got another trio of rules that just cause Mortal Wounds in slightly different ways? Yep. Very proud.
Overread wrote: Anyone had or seen similar? Apparently it came to the store from GW just like that. Could be a worrying sign regarding things like Endless Spells and Faction terrain!
My local GW here in the UK now offers next day delivery for stuff ordered for delivery to the store. That would mean less of a wait for stuff they don't have sitting on the shelves.
Prepare for the ultimate Evil vs Evil mega Chaos-Death fight in “Wrath of the Everchosen".
This new book tells the story of the Ossiarch Bonereaper invasion of the Eightpoints and the battle for the Varanspire.
There will be loads of fun stuff for every gamer in the Age of Sigmar too, with new rules for wandering monsters, roaming endless spells and even siege warfare!
Chaos players will get especially spoilt, with a host of new army options to represent the myriad forces under Archaon’s command – mortal, monster and daemonic alike.
Hmmm Siege Warfare coming back will that mean some of the larger Fortress type kits as well or a new one?
I only find it odd that GW isn't teasing wall terrain whilst releasing that book unless they are holding that back. Otherwise the siege book looks very neat. It will be a wait to see if the new chaos legions are "expansion only" or general "matched play" legal. Otherwise it sounds like a very nice overall boost to the game in rules.
Yes, this is exactly what Aos needed, more random monsters, spells and guff to clutter the board. Oh, and StD players, hope you don't mind buying two books to get a full battletome.
So done with GW's horrible "books as DLC" expansion concept.
On the other hand, the ogre hunter is really nice.
Cronch wrote: Yes, this is exactly what Aos needed, more random monsters, spells and guff to clutter the board. Oh, and StD players, hope you don't mind buying two books to get a full battletome.
So done with GW's horrible "books as DLC" expansion concept.
On the other hand, the ogre hunter is really nice.
Actually I rather like the idea of NPC elements on the table. Sure its not going to be your tournament matched play game element; but it can add a nice flavour to more open/casual gaming. Plus sometimes it also allows you to buy one or two models that you might otherwise never buy because you don't want to buy the whole army to go with them and still get to put that model on the table and make use of it. Heck I'd like to own a Zombiedragon, but I don't want to build any army that has an actual Zombiedragon in it. So chances are I won't end up buying one - but if I can put one as a wandering monster into games then heck I might get one even if it only sees the table a few times a year =.
That's the "market" GW is going after. And yes nothing stops you doing wandering monsters without the official book, however its always a lot easier to convince people to try something ify ou have one (and sometimes even basic rules are better than no rules that you have to make up yourself - not everyone is even half good at making up their own rules for things)
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Is that Hunter a "legal" loadout for use in AOS? That Frost Sabre is such an upgrade from the old ones.
He has throwing spears, a club and can take the bow.
So stick a few extra parts on him and good to go.
The “holstered” club from the ogres set would work well.
You could also just make a holstered spear from a banner pole plus a weapon tip.
A few YT channels have KO reviews up. It's...whelming. Boats were fixed, infantry either stayed the same or actively got worse (hi Arkanauts, you're now dead weight), and aether gold has penalty of -1 Bravery when used. I must say, its always refreshing to have an army whose allegiance ability penalizes you for using it, when every other army has no downside to using theirs- really keeps things fresh!
The Code is just reworded and cut down selection of existing code options, so nothing too exciting. I doubt the army will be doing much better than now, but maybe it won't be so one-sided when they lose.
Cronch wrote: Yes, this is exactly what Aos needed, more random monsters, spells and guff to clutter the board. Oh, and StD players, hope you don't mind buying two books to get a full battletome.
So done with GW's horrible "books as DLC" expansion concept.
On the other hand, the ogre hunter is really nice.
Agreed. When they showed off the start collecting kit for chaos, I was tempted, but now I'm very glad I didn't give in.
Very disappointed to see the 'and now buy the rest of your rules' book sales coming to AoS.
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It doesn't help that I don't care about a Megadeth fight in the chaos citadel. Are there even any stakes or consequences to that fight?
Wrath of the Everchosen looks like it could have some interesting stuff in it. I actually like the idea of randomly wandering monsters. Although, I could probably come up with at least as good of rules and be able to convince an opponent that would be open to that sort of game to try them. Still nice to have some official ones to make it easier to add to games. I could easily be convinced to play siege game every now and again even though it isn't even an favorite game type of the attacker/defender variety. I am just bad at them. I almost lost the Battle of Bunker (Breed's) Hill as the Continentals bad at sieges.
On the one hand, I agree I don't like this add-on rules thing Games Workshop is bringing back. Doubly so if my Slaves to Darkness army gets a better Damned Legion option. At the moment, none of the options really fit a Chaos Warrior/Knight heavy army (Ravagers being a workable fit). Given the prices of the Psychic Awakening books, I just see Wrath of the Everchosen being more money than I want to spend on the content provided. I get why GW does this though as no one/less people probably bothers books that don't include this sort of stuff. Depending on the Price, I wouldn't mind picking up some Dreadhold pieces.
So I doubt I will be picking this book up. At the same time, the FLGS has a bunch of OBR players so maybe one of them will get it, and I can still get in S2B vs. OBR battleplan games. Funnily enough the games of AoS look like they are fitting right in with this narrative as my S2D Defenders of the Mortal Realms army have been constantly pushed back (I haven't come close to a win) by all enemy particularly the OBR. I guess my failures have led to a siege of the Varanspire.
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: Is that Hunter a "legal" loadout for use in AOS? That Frost Sabre is such an upgrade from the old ones.
WYSIWYG isn't really a thing in Sigmar like it is in 40k. The finecast hunter model has no crossbow but it's still on the warscroll. As for the models, I think it's a joke to only get one frostsaber, and I don't love that hunter model. It just seems a bit off to me.
Ohh they hired the Leviathan Warships trailer guy (ok not really but the same voice acting style)
Honestly REALLY happy to see this. It looks like GW is both creating a new army, but also going back to the roots for the new Light Aelves. I can bet a lot of high elf players are feeling rather happy that they might get to use their old models in a new line of war and if they've sold them off in a fit of sad rage; they can get really shiny really up to date new sculpts!
Overall very nice news! Sure its not until Spring, but that fits with GW steadily teasing us with hints and trailer spoilers for a good few months until then, which fits well with how they typically release a fresh force. Hopefully they put a little more up front, I felt with Ossiarchs that they held back a little early on, which makes sense as it was a good sized, but not massive force so there was a limited range to show. But I think a bit more early on really gets people excited for the right things.
Great news, very happy to hear about it. Shame there was no Seraphon news, but honestly I can't imagine that we'll have to wait long to hear about them.
I wonder if they will bolster order with another aelf army, or surprise us.
Also, I really hope this afternoon has a small annoncment for Seraphon. Even if it's just more of an acknowledgement. That answer given at the panel was... Frustrating.
Overread wrote: Ohh they hired the Leviathan Warships trailer guy (ok not really but the same voice acting style)
Honestly REALLY happy to see this. It looks like GW is both creating a new army, but also going back to the roots for the new Light Aelves. I can bet a lot of high elf players are feeling rather happy that they might get to use their old models in a new line of war and if they've sold them off in a fit of sad rage; they can get really shiny really up to date new sculpts!
Overall very nice news! Sure its not until Spring, but that fits with GW steadily teasing us with hints and trailer spoilers for a good few months until then, which fits well with how they typically release a fresh force. Hopefully they put a little more up front, I felt with Ossiarchs that they held back a little early on, which makes sense as it was a good sized, but not massive force so there was a limited range to show. But I think a bit more early on really gets people excited for the right things.
Great news, very happy to hear about it. Shame there was no Seraphon news, but honestly I can't imagine that we'll have to wait long to hear about them.
Kinda makes sense I guess.
The main new stuff for AoS has been, well, new. Very new. A distinct departure from Tolkeinesque. But we’ve also seen Orcs and Gobbos largely unchanged, Chaos and Cities of Sigmar too. So to give some Elves in the classical style does make sense.
I wonder if they will bolster order with another aelf army, or surprise us.
Also, I really hope this afternoon has a small annoncment for Seraphon.... Even if it's just more of an acknowledgement. That answer given at the panel was... Frustrating.
I wonder if they will bolster order with another aelf army, or surprise us.
Also, I really hope this afternoon has a small annoncment for Seraphon.... Even if it's just more of an acknowledgement. That answer given at the panel was... Frustrating.
This elf tease is the afternoons news.
My mistake. Good on them though.
Guess my wallet it safe for a little while longer.
Don't matter. 'Pointy elves' is gonna stick. (as is the pronunciation. It isn't the same without the drawl). It's going to stick so hard its going to be retroactively applied to Warhammer Classic as well.
Nice appeal to nostalgia, though.
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I look forward to actual photographs at some point to see if its worth getting into. But not today.
So, teclis is now a god, so I’m assuming a morathi style model for him with a price tag to match.
More importantly, pointy elves always have dragons.
The DE dragon is an abomination, the plastic HE dragon was better but still terrible.
The stardrake is just a thing.
Hoping we get something like a plastic Carmine style dragon.
Don’t want the elves, but another dragon is never bad.
Super excited for that Wrath of the Everchosen - we haven't had a proper campaign book for AOS in a while. My group's chat is pretty stoked about tons of new scenarios and fun rules, especially for sieges.
Cronch wrote: Yes, this is exactly what Aos needed, more random monsters, spells and guff to clutter the board. Oh, and StD players, hope you don't mind buying two books to get a full battletome.
So done with GW's horrible "books as DLC" expansion concept.
So to defend GW on this one;
-The current uncontrolled monster rules aren't very good; they just randomly pick a player to control them for a turn. The definitely need an upgrade, we'll see if these are any good but they aren't 'new' so to speak.
-StD are already a full battletome, they totally work as an army now.
-The way the previous forbidden power book worked was new allegiance options that could be taken with xyz models, NOT extra options for an existing allegiance. Using Defenders of Lethys or Legion of Grief means no rules from any battletome are being used at all, they are totally separate. This is completely different to, say, the 40k approach where it is just free extra stuff. Obviously they could go either way, but it is too early to make that call.
In regards to new content, I got a lot of mileage out of the empowered artifacts from the last one as well as modifying scenarios for my own use. As with most GW campaign books it was a useful toolbox to adapt for one's own group.
Ultimately, Forbidden Power =/= Psychic Awakening, at least so far.
That we got another trio of rules that just cause Mortal Wounds in slightly different ways? Yep. Very proud.
Make a list of the army-specific packs that actually do that. It's very short. Hell, only one of the three Tzeentch ones is a damage-dealer. The other two have a chance to deal mortal wounds, but one is only 1/6 and the other is a miscast mechanic that hurts you. I might as well say "All of HBMC's posts criticize GW in slightly different ways." and it would be equally (un)true.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm surprised there is no mention of any scenery to go alongside the siege rules.
Yeah that surprised me too unless GW is holding back on it. Even a bog standard wall with nothing fancy about it would be pretty much expected from them. Then again at the same time a LOT of AoS armies don't even have any siege weapons and GW shut down dwarven siege mercenaries when they axed the cannon set (and the human great cannon too). Indeed whilst Siege is most welcome its a really odd time to release it being as GW isn't selling any complete wall systems (save for the Rohan one) and isn't selling siege weapons for more than half their AoS armies.
Teclis elves is potentially exciting. Too many tassles is not exciting- I've had a handful of flimsy tassles break on my idoneth, so I'd rather have more...compact models. That's the one thing I really do miss from the old world- the models were much sturdier in overall design.
Ironically, none of the many nighthaunts I've put together for a friend broke in any way, but the number of tiny stormcast spikes and danglies on idoneth that disappeared mysteriously is legion.
GoatboyBeta wrote: I'm surprised there is no mention of any scenery to go alongside the siege rules.
Yeah that surprised me too unless GW is holding back on it. Even a bog standard wall with nothing fancy about it would be pretty much expected from them. Then again at the same time a LOT of AoS armies don't even have any siege weapons and GW shut down dwarven siege mercenaries when they axed the cannon set (and the human great cannon too). Indeed whilst Siege is most welcome its a really odd time to release it being as GW isn't selling any complete wall systems (save for the Rohan one) and isn't selling siege weapons for more than half their AoS armies.
The Las Vegas Open is in three weeks and GW has done previews from the LVO the last two years, so its a good bet that something is being held back for that preview.
Jackal90 wrote: So, teclis is now a god, so I’m assuming a morathi style model for him with a price tag to match.
Sadly GW got rid of their BEST dragon the awesome Magmadragon only a week or two ago (I'd have panic bought one but I don't run any destruction army and coudln't think of another I could run it in without starting a whole new army :()
As for Teclis actually he and many of the big Aelves from the Old World are now gods. His bother, Morathi's son - they are all gods. Morathi though, she got "betrayed" and eaten by Slaanesh. So whilst the other major Aelves were gasping at power as the Old World fell apart, she was being slowly digested in the belly of the Prince of Excess.
However she managed to escape that living hell. Her body though, was corrupted. Her soul survived intact, but her body was warped by the experience. Many times its original size and the great Queen of Beauty and Pleasure became, basically, a Gorgon. A head of snake hair; dragon wings; the lower body a mighty serpent. She also did not get anywhere near any great powers from her entrapment and escape. She's still a formidable magic user, but she's got nothing on the actual gods. Indeed she later found the last part of Khaine, his Iron Heart, which survived the end of the Old World.
In theory Khaine could be reborn from it and she used it to help found her people, the Daughters of Khaine. However she instead syphons the power from the prayers offered up to Khaine. Letting her gain powers that she otherwise would not have. Far as I can gather this makes her strong, but perhaps not as strong as Sigmar, Nagash etc... Ergo the other "true gods" of the AoS era.
As for a model I've a feeling he'll be more like the Everqueen, so rather than being a huge model himself, he'll be astride some great beast or platform or such (like a huge dragon one might hope!). The one that I think will be a beast in size is Malarion (Morathi's son) who has fashioned his Aelven people more after dragons in appearance - indeed the small amount of art we have shows him off looking VERY demonic (even though he's not demonic in the chaos sense) with wings, horns and claw hands.
Jackal90 wrote: So, teclis is now a god, so I’m assuming a morathi style model for him with a price tag to match.
Sadly GW got rid of their BEST dragon the awesome Magmadragon only a week or two ago (I'd have panic bought one but I don't run any destruction army and coudln't think of another I could run it in without starting a whole new army :()
As for Teclis actually he and many of the big Aelves from the Old World are now gods. His bother, Morathi's son - they are all gods. Morathi though, she got "betrayed" and eaten by Slaanesh. So whilst the other major Aelves were gasping at power as the Old World fell apart, she was being slowly digested in the belly of the Prince of Excess.
However she managed to escape that living hell. Her body though, was corrupted. Her soul survived intact, but her body was warped by the experience. Many times its original size and the great Queen of Beauty and Pleasure became, basically, a Gorgon. A head of snake hair; dragon wings; the lower body a mighty serpent. She also did not get anywhere near any great powers from her entrapment and escape. She's still a formidable magic user, but she's got nothing on the actual gods. Indeed she later found the last part of Khaine, his Iron Heart, which survived the end of the Old World.
In theory Khaine could be reborn from it and she used it to help found her people, the Daughters of Khaine. However she instead syphons the power from the prayers offered up to Khaine. Letting her gain powers that she otherwise would not have. Far as I can gather this makes her strong, but perhaps not as strong as Sigmar, Nagash etc... Ergo the other "true gods" of the AoS era.
As for a model I've a feeling he'll be more like the Everqueen, so rather than being a huge model himself, he'll be astride some great beast or platform or such (like a huge dragon one might hope!). The one that I think will be a beast in size is Malarion (Morathi's son) who has fashioned his Aelven people more after dragons in appearance - indeed the small amount of art we have shows him off looking VERY demonic (even though he's not demonic in the chaos sense) with wings, horns and claw hands.
I wasn’t going that deep with this one buddy, just taking a poke at GW and the way hero’s get a model size based on their status was all :p
The magma dragon was ace, I do have one but I’ve not even assembled it yet.
I panicked and grabbed one plus a 3rd Carmine dragon when it went to last chance.
One of the best dragons I regret never owning was the big FW chaos dragon.
Absolutely stunning but wasn’t in a position to drop £250 back then.
Same with the emperor fire dragon.
Smaug is tempting, but having seen a lot of reviews and unboxings of the more recent casts, the quality is falling away and it’s hardly a cheap investment.
Just a shame that GW currently don’t make any dragons I like.
Their last one for me was the Forest dragon with the sisters of twilight kit.
As a former HE player I want to believe, but knowing GW rush to make everything look like video game characters, I'm going to guess that the Elves will be dragon flies from the waist down or have faces on both sides of their heads or something.
Jackal90 wrote: So, teclis is now a god, so I’m assuming a morathi style model for him with a price tag to match.
Sadly GW got rid of their BEST dragon the awesome Magmadragon only a week or two ago (I'd have panic bought one but I don't run any destruction army and coudln't think of another I could run it in without starting a whole new army :()
As for Teclis actually he and many of the big Aelves from the Old World are now gods. His bother, Morathi's son - they are all gods. Morathi though, she got "betrayed" and eaten by Slaanesh. So whilst the other major Aelves were gasping at power as the Old World fell apart, she was being slowly digested in the belly of the Prince of Excess.
However she managed to escape that living hell. Her body though, was corrupted. Her soul survived intact, but her body was warped by the experience. Many times its original size and the great Queen of Beauty and Pleasure became, basically, a Gorgon. A head of snake hair; dragon wings; the lower body a mighty serpent. She also did not get anywhere near any great powers from her entrapment and escape. She's still a formidable magic user, but she's got nothing on the actual gods. Indeed she later found the last part of Khaine, his Iron Heart, which survived the end of the Old World.
In theory Khaine could be reborn from it and she used it to help found her people, the Daughters of Khaine. However she instead syphons the power from the prayers offered up to Khaine. Letting her gain powers that she otherwise would not have. Far as I can gather this makes her strong, but perhaps not as strong as Sigmar, Nagash etc... Ergo the other "true gods" of the AoS era.
As for a model I've a feeling he'll be more like the Everqueen, so rather than being a huge model himself, he'll be astride some great beast or platform or such (like a huge dragon one might hope!). The one that I think will be a beast in size is Malarion (Morathi's son) who has fashioned his Aelven people more after dragons in appearance - indeed the small amount of art we have shows him off looking VERY demonic (even though he's not demonic in the chaos sense) with wings, horns and claw hands.
I wasn’t going that deep with this one buddy, just taking a poke at GW and the way hero’s get a model size based on their status was all :p
The magma dragon was ace, I do have one but I’ve not even assembled it yet.
I panicked and grabbed one plus a 3rd Carmine dragon when it went to last chance.
One of the best dragons I regret never owning was the big FW chaos dragon.
Absolutely stunning but wasn’t in a position to drop £250 back then.
Same with the emperor fire dragon.
Smaug is tempting, but having seen a lot of reviews and unboxings of the more recent casts, the quality is falling away and it’s hardly a cheap investment.
Just a shame that GW currently don’t make any dragons I like.
Their last one for me was the Forest dragon with the sisters of twilight kit.
The Khornate dragon FW currently sells is an incredible centerpiece model. Highly recommend it if you don’t have it. I do wish FW would bring back the War Mammoth and Chaos Dragon though, it’s hard as hell to find even decent recasts of them.
Gallahad wrote: As a former HE player I want to believe, but knowing GW rush to make everything look like video game characters, I'm going to guess that the Elves will be dragon flies from the waist down or have faces on both sides of their heads or something.
Who know? Last time I thought the Sea Elves suppose to be normal, but turned out they all had cancer. Even the "healthy" one are bald because they had cancer but not as bad.
I can not have the pointy elves arrive soon enough. I am super excited to see what they look like. I always wanted to collect a high elf army back in the day, and had a couple units, but I won’t miss out a second time.
Pointy Aelves all the way.
Kendo wrote: I can not have the pointy elves arrive soon enough. I am super excited to see what they look like. I always wanted to collect a high elf army back in the day, and had a couple units, but I won’t miss out a second time.
Pointy Aelves all the way.
I'm definitely curious. The video smashed the nostalgia button really hard, but if they're too similar to high elves, there isn't much point in doing a new line. Especially with a few things still lurking in Cities of Sigmar, and Classic lurking over the horizon's horizon.
Threading recognizable but distinct while not looking goofy is going be a trick.
I think the one from September third is from the staff- a pointy tip and tassles to the side of the large gourd shape. (though its photographed from the other side of the model, given the direction things are facing.)
Jackal90 wrote: So, teclis is now a god, so I’m assuming a morathi style model for him with a price tag to match.
Sadly GW got rid of their BEST dragon the awesome Magmadragon only a week or two ago (I'd have panic bought one but I don't run any destruction army and coudln't think of another I could run it in without starting a whole new army :()
As for Teclis actually he and many of the big Aelves from the Old World are now gods. His bother, Morathi's son - they are all gods. Morathi though, she got "betrayed" and eaten by Slaanesh. So whilst the other major Aelves were gasping at power as the Old World fell apart, she was being slowly digested in the belly of the Prince of Excess.
However she managed to escape that living hell. Her body though, was corrupted. Her soul survived intact, but her body was warped by the experience. Many times its original size and the great Queen of Beauty and Pleasure became, basically, a Gorgon. A head of snake hair; dragon wings; the lower body a mighty serpent. She also did not get anywhere near any great powers from her entrapment and escape. She's still a formidable magic user, but she's got nothing on the actual gods. Indeed she later found the last part of Khaine, his Iron Heart, which survived the end of the Old World.
In theory Khaine could be reborn from it and she used it to help found her people, the Daughters of Khaine. However she instead syphons the power from the prayers offered up to Khaine. Letting her gain powers that she otherwise would not have. Far as I can gather this makes her strong, but perhaps not as strong as Sigmar, Nagash etc... Ergo the other "true gods" of the AoS era.
As for a model I've a feeling he'll be more like the Everqueen, so rather than being a huge model himself, he'll be astride some great beast or platform or such (like a huge dragon one might hope!). The one that I think will be a beast in size is Malarion (Morathi's son) who has fashioned his Aelven people more after dragons in appearance - indeed the small amount of art we have shows him off looking VERY demonic (even though he's not demonic in the chaos sense) with wings, horns and claw hands.
I wasn’t going that deep with this one buddy, just taking a poke at GW and the way hero’s get a model size based on their status was all :p
The magma dragon was ace, I do have one but I’ve not even assembled it yet.
I panicked and grabbed one plus a 3rd Carmine dragon when it went to last chance.
One of the best dragons I regret never owning was the big FW chaos dragon.
Absolutely stunning but wasn’t in a position to drop £250 back then.
Same with the emperor fire dragon.
Smaug is tempting, but having seen a lot of reviews and unboxings of the more recent casts, the quality is falling away and it’s hardly a cheap investment.
Just a shame that GW currently don’t make any dragons I like.
Their last one for me was the Forest dragon with the sisters of twilight kit.
The Khornate dragon FW currently sells is an incredible centerpiece model. Highly recommend it if you don’t have it. I do wish FW would bring back the War Mammoth and Chaos Dragon though, it’s hard as hell to find even decent recasts of them.
Skaloth is a gorgeous model but too much work.
I’d fill in and remove all of the embedded skulls as to me it kills the models look.
Edit:
The one thing that gets me is their reasonings.
Tomb kings likely won’t be back as OBR are very similar.
Brets though, we have nothing like them.
Seems as if GW is slowly purging mounted units, especially those on horseback.
While their line is fairly well aged, the models would still fit right in and they could easily make them unique from other armies.
Guessing they will become the sisters of AoS now.
Slaves to Darkness literally just got new Chaos Knights on horseback and the ability to summon Marauder Horsemen. If GW is purging mounted units on horseback, they forgot to tell Chaos.
And bone reapers. And underworld gobbos. And declined to take out a giant pile of Cities of Sigmar cavalry during the pre-Battletome purge (which devoured 30-odd units, so was pretty extensive)
Slowly purging units, I didn’t say they were wiping them out entirely.
Read the context before trying to gain ground.
So we have those, but have lost:
The entire brettonian line.
Tomb kings cavalry (along with their line)
Regular boarboys.
Dragon princes.
Silver helms.
Elryian (sp?) reavers.
Glade riders.
Empire knights/knights of the white wolf.
Wolf riders (the special unit hardly counts as it’s a unique unit)
That’s from the top of my head, there are plenty of armies I didn’t know enough about to really remember their units.
Jackal90 wrote: Slowly purging units, I didn’t say they were wiping them out entirely.
Read the context before trying to gain ground.
So we have those, but have lost:
The entire brettonian line.
Tomb kings cavalry (along with their line)
Regular boarboys.
Dragon princes.
Silver helms.
Elryian (sp?) reavers.
Glade riders.
Empire knights/knights of the white wolf.
Wolf riders (the special unit hardly counts as it’s a unique unit)
That’s from the top of my head, there are plenty of armies I didn’t know enough about to really remember their units.
I've noticed this too, but for the life of me can't think what kind of apocalyptic event could precipitate such changes.
Moonclans are not regular plains-gobbos and the old models were atrocious. Expect wolf er, snarlfang-riders to appear whenever they get around to a regular goblin book (i.e. one with doom-divers and pump wagons and all that good stuff) or start exploring chaos dwarves again.
Heck, the way the fluff for Rippa’s Snarlfangs goes, there are entire roving warbands of nothing but Snarlfang riders out there…
As for the horse-elves, check back after codex: pointy aelves drops.
Jackal90 wrote: The one thing that gets me is their reasonings.
Tomb kings likely won’t be back as OBR are very similar.
Brets though, we have nothing like them.
Seems as if GW is slowly purging mounted units, especially those on horseback.
While their line is fairly well aged, the models would still fit right in and they could easily make them unique from other armies.
Guessing they will become the sisters of AoS now.
Untrue, GW has cut a large number of units but the ratio has not particularly favored cavalry.
Mr_Rose wrote: Moonclans are not regular plains-gobbos and the old models were atrocious. Expect wolf er, snarlfang-riders to appear whenever they get around to a regular goblin book (i.e. one with doom-divers and pump wagons and all that good stuff) or start exploring chaos dwarves again.
Heck, the way the fluff for Rippa’s Snarlfangs goes, there are entire roving warbands of nothing but Snarlfang riders out there…
As for the horse-elves, check back after codex: pointy aelves drops.
I said nothing about moon clan.
I was talking about wolf riders, I made no mention of squigs.
It’s a 3 goblin unit that’s unique, so that’s limited straight away.
Any speculation currently of more than that is just that, speculation.
Ninth- I’d assume the most cut option would be hero’s, special characters at that.
I was simply stating that a lot of cav type units had gone now, with no real reasoning as to why.
I’m hoping the pointy elves pull this back as they had 3 of the squatted units I mentioned.
I am pointing out that the theory GW is specifically cutting cavalry more than other units doesn't hold up to the reality of which units they have actually cut. I think anyone who likes/relies on cavalry models GW is still selling, or looks forward to new cavalry models in the future, doesn't need to worry.
They were often either old (wolf riders) or part of culled faction (HE, Orc piggy riders)? There's really no nefarious plot to eliminate old, tiny cavalry models from the game.
Kendo wrote: I was initially hoping the pointy Aelves were coming back riding pointy dragons again, but at this point I kind I hope they do something different.
They might, let's see what they do. Part of me wonders if removing the Asur remnants had anything to do with making more design space for the Pointy ears. We could see older ideas under new wrapping or something that's entirely new. Teclis has been making pacts and alliances with the native spirits of Hysh (and cats ), I feel we're going to see some of those in the army roster.
So...Chaos/Slaves to Darkness kept their horsies. Chaos Knights and mounted Marauders are both still on top of horses. In fact, knights even got a SECOND kit on top of horses.
GW has never hated horsies. You just can't put a stormcast on a horse without breaking the horse! Dwarves are also pretty rubbish at riding horses (ponies are whole other matter of course); whilst Idoneth have yet to find seahorsies. So basically of those "new" armies most just weren't equine compatible!
Jackal90 wrote: I was simply stating that a lot of cav type units had gone now, with no real reasoning as to why.
The reasoning for most of the ranges that have been killed off is fairly likely to be the same thing: Chapterhouse. In the wake of that debacle (and it was a dumb idea from the outset to try and exert non-existent rights mind you), GW has taken a look at removing anything that was not distinctive enough to be copyrighted. Tomb Kings were skeletons with Egyptian trappings. Brettonians were fairly close to actual medieval historicals in styling. Empire Knights were very similar to actual Renaissance-era knights. None of those things could be fully copyrighted, so they were axed as GW wants protect-able IP as that is what their business model is reliant on. There are exceptions to that, as GW is not going to discard every single tool, but in the main that would seem to be their pattern.
Similarly, the "generic" fantasy races have kind of taken a back burner to the dramatically more stylized ones. Chaos, which was shown to have the strongest distinct styling and thus strongest protection has certainly seen far more focus since launch alongside the Stormcast (also unique). Nearly all of the "new" factions released for AoS have also doubled down on the "you don't see these anywhere else" idea. That the Witch Elves became an entire faction unto themselves is unlikely to be coincidental with the fact they're the most distinct "GW" addition to the Dark Elf archetype. Ditto the Fyreslayers; once part of a larger army but the most unique additions to it suddenly becoming a standalone faction.
So no, it's not real likely they're trying to kill off cavalry, but they will take a hard look at dropping anything that they can't readily claim copyright on.
Wasn't it stated multiple times by now that both TK and Brets were killed off due to having abysmal, even for Fantasy, sales? Why chop the empire knights, when empire troops were just as historical (if perhaps a bit barefoot in some cases)?
The same with the factions that did survive- DoK witch elves are in no way more unique than Darkling Covens or Scourge Privateers which are still almost fully untouched Dark Elf range and available in CoS. If anything, athletic elven warrior lady is much more of a stereotype (at least in RPGs) than armor-plated elfs riding raptors.
and all of those still don't slow down making 3rd party alternatives. What does hurt 3rd party sales is selling so little in the first place you don't want to make alternatives as customer base is too small or changing your products regularly so that alternatives don't fit...which would piss off gw customers as well with invalidated models periodically.
Trying to fight 3rd party alternatives except by making your products appealing enough on their own is fool's errand.
Jackal90 wrote: I was simply stating that a lot of cav type units had gone now, with no real reasoning as to why.
Half of the Idoneth range is riding something. New Chaos SC not only has cavalry, but new mounted lord. Empire/Freeguild kept both Griffons and Demigryphs, not to mention tons of horse auxilliaries. Are you sure you're not trying to pigeonhole square anecdata into round conspiracy theory? Especially seeing vast majority of cut units (95% of Tomb Kings for one) were not mounted...
Jackal90 wrote: I was simply stating that a lot of cav type units had gone now, with no real reasoning as to why.
Half of the Idoneth range is riding something. New Chaos SC not only has cavalry, but new mounted lord. Empire/Freeguild kept both Griffons and Demigryphs, not to mention tons of horse auxilliaries. Are you sure you're not trying to pigeonhole square anecdata into round conspiracy theory? Especially seeing vast majority of cut units (95% of Tomb Kings for one) were not mounted...
They inexplicably cut the Imperial General on Warhorse... *pokes the conspiracy theorists with a stick*
Never heard the theory that cavalry would somehow be phased out - that clearly isn't happening.
There is some reason to say somewhat normal cavalry (i.e. riding horses) is becoming rather scarce, as new units tend be be riding more fantastical creatures and the more typical ones (or indeed large tracts of their entire ranges) have disappeared. Funny how among the various factions, it is the twisted and incomprehensible ranks of the Hordes of Chaos that you can find various troops who prefer steeds of the equine variety to riding big lizards, bird/mammal hybrids or ravenous fungal monstrosities (as I think squigs are).
Jackal90 wrote: I was simply stating that a lot of cav type units had gone now, with no real reasoning as to why.
Half of the Idoneth range is riding something. New Chaos SC not only has cavalry, but new mounted lord. Empire/Freeguild kept both Griffons and Demigryphs, not to mention tons of horse auxilliaries. Are you sure you're not trying to pigeonhole square anecdata into round conspiracy theory? Especially seeing vast majority of cut units (95% of Tomb Kings for one) were not mounted...
They inexplicably cut the Imperial General on Warhorse... *pokes the conspiracy theorists with a stick*
Maybe humans are getting squatted . Or old horse models are being killed off to give humans horses that weren’t around during the battlemasters board game days. A complete line of old models got trashed for AOS, free guilds was the next step, but I think we will see the different cavalry coming back riding various animal hybrids.
Coenus Scaldingus wrote: Never heard the theory that cavalry would somehow be phased out - that clearly isn't happening.
There is some reason to say somewhat normal cavalry (i.e. riding horses) is becoming rather scarce, as new units tend be be riding more fantastical creatures and the more typical ones (or indeed large tracts of their entire ranges) have disappeared. Funny how among the various factions, it is the twisted and incomprehensible ranks of the Hordes of Chaos that you can find various troops who prefer steeds of the equine variety to riding big lizards, bird/mammal hybrids or ravenous fungal monstrosities (as I think squigs are).
It kinda makes sense, in a weird way.
Remember that the Hordes of Chaos had dominated most of the Realms for awhile. They've had the space for the horses to actually be able to have herds and large populations of them, even (nerdery afoot!) accounting for predation from the weirder critters of the Realms while Order hasn't exactly had that same spread.
They inexplicably cut the Imperial General on Warhorse... *pokes the conspiracy theorists with a stick*
Maybe humans are getting squatted . Or old horse models are being killed off to give humans horses that weren’t around during the battlemasters board game days. A complete line of old models got trashed for AOS, free guilds was the next step, but I think we will see the different cavalry coming back riding various animal hybrids.
The Imperial General on Warhorse was a newer kit, with a unique horse. It was the double kit of general on horse and foot.
I wouldn't be shocked if a good chunk of the Empire line had gotten cut because of stuff that couldn't be removed saying "KARL FRANZ" in huge letters.
Jackal90 wrote: I was simply stating that a lot of cav type units had gone now, with no real reasoning as to why.
Half of the Idoneth range is riding something. New Chaos SC not only has cavalry, but new mounted lord. Empire/Freeguild kept both Griffons and Demigryphs, not to mention tons of horse auxilliaries. Are you sure you're not trying to pigeonhole square anecdata into round conspiracy theory? Especially seeing vast majority of cut units (95% of Tomb Kings for one) were not mounted...
They inexplicably cut the Imperial General on Warhorse... *pokes the conspiracy theorists with a stick*
Dual kit with a guy on foot, clearly GW is trying to phase out infantry! Just look at all the new kits that are mounted!
. Or old horse models are being killed off to give humans horses that weren’t around during the battlemasters board game days. A complete line of old models got trashed for 
