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The changes to boat interactions make sense. Making them garrisons not only forces the attacker to split attention, but also...you know, makes damn sense given the boats were the main focus of the army. All that remains to be seen is if the weapons and armor of the army got fixed so they can actually be a threat now, or if the little le quirks are going to be replacement for that...

If the rules end up decent I may dust my dwarfs off and have them head back to the sky.

My biggest worry are still the stupid flight stands. They kept breaking! Were there any decent 3rd party solutions out there?

Especially on the ships. The Endrinriggers seemed alright.

The best solution I've found with regards to the flight stands is to use stuff like the Azyrite Ruins and pinning/magnets.

Or, if you don't want to pay GW terrain prices for fancy basing, you can just order thicker straight clear acrylic rods off ebay for a fraction of the price.

Voss wrote:
Eh. The aether-share system is annoying from a fluff perspective. They describe it as a desperation move when the 'chips are down,' but since it's granting rerolls and what not it's obviously best used early when at full strength so you get the most value out of it.

For the battle to be taking place the chips are already down; the KO are up against an enemy force of similar strength, victory is far from guaranteed, and most importantly they weren't able to beat them into submission with preliminary bombardment.

The KO rules seem really cool right now. Fly High looks really strong.

Hopefully they fixed some of the other warscroll issues, but as of right now it seems like they put in some of the effort.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Or, if you don't want to pay GW terrain prices for fancy basing, you can just order thicker straight clear acrylic rods off ebay for a fraction of the price.

The ships, in and of themselves, seem to stay on the bases fairly well once glued.

The balloons are the issue, and a single set of Azyrite Ruins can be used for something like 9 of them provided someone is willing to use a hacksaw.
I did similar using the Suppressors and a single box of the 40k ruins.

I hope they're still kind of glass-cannons. Turn 1 sky highs across the board to fill you full of holes feel problematic. But it might not be that big a deal depending on what exactly changes.

I'm happy that they made a sub faction that allows inclusion of other dwarf models. Would hope they do the same for the elves.

 Knight wrote:
I'm happy that they made a sub faction that allows inclusion of other dwarf models. Would hope they do the same for the elves.

There's not really any Elves to bring in anymore.

With that snarkiness out of the way, most Elf factions are in Cities of Sigmar now. The others(Daughters of Khaine and Idoneth) aren't really on friendly terms with the other Elf factions, and Sylvaneth aren't Elves.

We'll see what they'll do. Personally don't see the Hysh Elves working together with IDK, unless there's another End Times event. The Court of the Blind King did portray the IDK as rather fluid and pragmatic, however, how much can that be taken as an indicator is a different matter.

I do hope Phoenix Temple and Sisters of the Watch are allies to the Hysh Elves and follow the same restrictions as SCE in CoS. It's simply more elegant and allows more playful compositions.

I'll be honest in regard to Sylvaneth, the more lore I read the less I understand how they can be allies to anyone.

Sisters of the Watch are Wanderers units. They're not a standalone faction.

Aether War is £110 €145 $185

 DaveC wrote:
Aether War is £110 €145 $185

That’s pretty decent to be fair.
Was expecting BoTP pricing on this one or there abouts any way.
The sky stunties side is around £100 alone (assuming the bigger character has the typical £20+ price)

Jackal90 wrote:
Was expecting BoTP pricing on this one or there abouts any way.

Blood of the Phoenix obviously overstepped in pricing, and GW dialed it back to $185 for the next two army release - which is just enough to irritate, but not enrage. This will be the new standard box price until 40k's new starter set comes out at BotP pricing, which will break the $200 barrier and still be successful. This will allow them to raise the boil a little more, and this time next year, BotP pricing will be the new standard and GW fans will still be telling us that we should be thankful for such a great deal.

Blood of the Phoenix has other issues though.

AoS has a bit of a buffer in that whilst AoS has been out for around 5 years, its only in the last year and a half that its had the full marketing, community and rules swing going into full effect. So for many these aren't just battleboxes to expand their army with 1 or 2 new models; they are starting points for new armies for either new gamers or those who have eyed up wanting to start an army (perhaps for many of those 5 years) and finally getting a chance too.

So getting a battlebox with a smattering of good units and something unique and new really works well for them.



Pheonix has the issue that both armies are quite "old" in 40K (Eldar especially) so whilst there certainly are new people starting up both; I'd wager as a percentage of those interested its smaller than for AoS. So lots of those who want the new models already have the falcon and the viper and the other stuff. In fact they've got loads of them. So there's far less desire for them to want those models - it also makes them harder to pass on second hand because the armies are so much more popular for so long that those models have been floating around for a good while now.

Of course it also doesn't help that the new models are also troops not leaders so those interested want 10 or 20 or however many rather than just 1. In fact geting a set with only 5 almost feels more like a tease so theres more pressure to get them on ebay or only if you can find a person who wants the other half and is getting their own set to swap over.


Add all that to a price that was a fair bit higher than previous duel boxies and, yeah, it all came together to lower sales interest. I think the best thing is that we hope to see the new models from those boxed sets start to appear much sooner. I'm really hoping that, AoS at least, gets some news on this in the New Year reveal event. Skaven and FleshEaters have had new models held in limbo for nearly a whole year now. That's a whole year where its ebay stupidly high price or blind luck getting a decent deal.

 Overread wrote:
Blood of the Phoenix has other issues though.

AoS has a bit of a buffer in that whilst AoS has been out for around 5 years, its only in the last year and a half that its had the full marketing, community and rules swing going into full effect. So for many these aren't just battleboxes to expand their army with 1 or 2 new models; they are starting points for new armies for either new gamers or those who have eyed up wanting to start an army (perhaps for many of those 5 years) and finally getting a chance too.

So getting a battlebox with a smattering of good units and something unique and new really works well for them.



Pheonix has the issue that both armies are quite "old" in 40K (Eldar especially) so whilst there certainly are new people starting up both; I'd wager as a percentage of those interested its smaller than for AoS. So lots of those who want the new models already have the falcon and the viper and the other stuff. In fact they've got loads of them. So there's far less desire for them to want those models - it also makes them harder to pass on second hand because the armies are so much more popular for so long that those models have been floating around for a good while now.

Of course it also doesn't help that the new models are also troops not leaders so those interested want 10 or 20 or however many rather than just 1. In fact geting a set with only 5 almost feels more like a tease so theres more pressure to get them on ebay or only if you can find a person who wants the other half and is getting their own set to swap over.


Add all that to a price that was a fair bit higher than previous duel boxies and, yeah, it all came together to lower sales interest. I think the best thing is that we hope to see the new models from those boxed sets start to appear much sooner. I'm really hoping that, AoS at least, gets some news on this in the New Year reveal event. Skaven and FleshEaters have had new models held in limbo for nearly a whole year now. That's a whole year where its ebay stupidly high price or blind luck getting a decent deal.

The AoS version of conquest features limit characters like the arch reagent, so that should floor the prices nicely with any luck.
Besides, the amount I’ve been tormented by the damn things I’m kind of glad they aren’t everywhere.
Only limited hero I grabbed was the loonboss on giant cave squig as none of the others interested me as I can always convert those.

Do we have any more word on the Hysh Rumors? I’m thinking that we will see something at LVO, but do we know what we might be seeing? With the hints of something big I wonder if it might not be our first ‘knight’ sized army for AoS. Maybe some of the distant relative of the Sky titans the Ogors didn’t eat.

Its all very hysh hysh at the moment.

 Sqorgar wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
Was expecting BoTP pricing on this one or there abouts any way.

Blood of the Phoenix obviously overstepped in pricing, and GW dialed it back to $185 for the next two army release - which is just enough to irritate, but not enrage. This will be the new standard box price until 40k's new starter set comes out at BotP pricing, which will break the $200 barrier and still be successful. This will allow them to raise the boil a little more, and this time next year, BotP pricing will be the new standard and GW fans will still be telling us that we should be thankful for such a great deal.

That is how inflation works, yes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
Its all very hysh hysh at the moment.

Have an exalt good sir!

Kendo wrote:
Do we have any more word on the Hysh Rumors? I’m thinking that we will see something at LVO, but do we know what we might be seeing? With the hints of something big I wonder if it might not be our first ‘knight’ sized army for AoS. Maybe some of the distant relative of the Sky titans the Ogors didn’t eat.

Remember we have an Open Day this weekend.

 Sqorgar wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
Was expecting BoTP pricing on this one or there abouts any way.

Blood of the Phoenix obviously overstepped in pricing, and GW dialed it back to $185 for the next two army release - which is just enough to irritate, but not enrage. This will be the new standard box price until 40k's new starter set comes out at BotP pricing, which will break the $200 barrier and still be successful. This will allow them to raise the boil a little more, and this time next year, BotP pricing will be the new standard and GW fans will still be telling us that we should be thankful for such a great deal.

If you feel the price is too high, don't buy it. That's what "voting with your wallet" means. If others are still buying it, sorry to say you've been outvoted. That's capitalism for ya.

NinthMusketeer wrote:That is how inflation works, yes.

The US inflation rate for 2019 was about 2%, but the price increase from Looncure to Blood of the Phoenix was about 70% in just a few months. GW must be an overachiever! Just like they are at currency exchange rates!

There's plenty of things to defend GW on, but the constant, obscene price raises that have taken us from $100 big boxes to $230 big boxes in a few years is NOT "how inflation works", nor is it defensible as a consumer. GW has gone from "it's a bit expensive" to "it is literally cheaper to have a cocaine addiction".

EnTyme wrote:If you feel the price is too high, don't buy it. That's what "voting with your wallet" means. If others are still buying it, sorry to say you've been outvoted. That's capitalism for ya.

As far as Blood of the Phoenix is concerned, others weren't buying it. Saw it on a Black Friday say for $150 and it still didn't sell out. So much so that it returned as a deal of the day at GameNerdz last week... and still didn't sell out. The price was, objectively, too high. Which is why Feast of Bones was cheaper. That they'd choose to make $185 the new normal means that $185 was, objectively, not too high - though I think GW is skating the razor's edge with it.

GW is expensive, and I get that. But I'd have far less of a problem with them if their "inflation" was 5% a year, rather than 20%. I think $230 is going to be just as expensive next year as it is this year, but GW desperately wants to break the $200 barrier. As customers, I don't think we should let them, or else the boxes will be $285 in 2021.

 Sqorgar wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:That is how inflation works, yes.

The US inflation rate for 2019 was about 2%, but the price increase from Looncure to Blood of the Phoenix was about 70% in just a few months. GW must be an overachiever! Just like they are at currency exchange rates!

There's plenty of things to defend GW on, but the constant, obscene price raises that have taken us from $100 big boxes to $230 big boxes in a few years is NOT "how inflation works", nor is it defensible as a consumer. GW has gone from "it's a bit expensive" to "it is literally cheaper to have a cocaine addiction".

EnTyme wrote:If you feel the price is too high, don't buy it. That's what "voting with your wallet" means. If others are still buying it, sorry to say you've been outvoted. That's capitalism for ya.

As far as Blood of the Phoenix is concerned, others weren't buying it. Saw it on a Black Friday say for $150 and it still didn't sell out. So much so that it returned as a deal of the day at GameNerdz last week... and still didn't sell out. The price was, objectively, too high. Which is why Feast of Bones was cheaper. That they'd choose to make $185 the new normal means that $185 was, objectively, not too high - though I think GW is skating the razor's edge with it.

GW is expensive, and I get that. But I'd have far less of a problem with them if their "inflation" was 5% a year, rather than 20%. I think $230 is going to be just as expensive next year as it is this year, but GW desperately wants to break the $200 barrier. As customers, I don't think we should let them, or else the boxes will be $285 in 2021.

Agreed on all counts.

Very much so. I'm always shocked to see people whiteknight for corporations, they have lawyers to do that, and they get paid to do it.

I’m sorry, but how are you using 2 entirely different products to show inflation?

Also, inflation would level or keep going, yet the prices just yo-yo.

I think it’s more just GW seeing how far they can push things before having to back off again.

An example of inflation would be forgeworld prices that jump a few £ each year.
And by that I mean the same model going up in price.

Comparing 2 different sets from different systems really doesn’t help or show anything.
Compare it to previous AoS sets for that.

it is GW's inflation

they raise the prices until they find the limit of margin vs sales

if they sell less but still earn more, the prices will go up with the next set until the sales are low enough to affect the earnings

multiple different starter boxes are the perfect way to test the price limit

 kodos wrote:
it is GW's inflation

they raise the prices until they find the limit of margin vs sales

if they sell less but still earn more, the prices will go up with the next set until the sales are low enough to affect the earnings

multiple different starter boxes are the perfect way to test the price limit

Sure because nothing says showing a great example like comparing an apple to an orange.
Feast of bones, looncurse etc are the best comparisons as it’s from the same line and designed to be the exact same thing with swapped out armies.

"I bought something I wanted"

"I DON'T LIKE THAT THING!"

"Then don't buy it."

"WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING A CORPORATION?!?"

 EnTyme wrote:
"I bought something I wanted"

"I DON'T LIKE THAT THING!"

"Then don't buy it."

"WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING A CORPORATION?!?"

Pretty much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sqorgar wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:That is how inflation works, yes.

The US inflation rate for 2019 was about 2%, but the price increase from Looncure to Blood of the Phoenix was about 70% in just a few months. GW must be an overachiever! Just like they are at currency exchange rates!

There's plenty of things to defend GW on, but the constant, obscene price raises that have taken us from $100 big boxes to $230 big boxes in a few years is NOT "how inflation works", nor is it defensible as a consumer. GW has gone from "it's a bit expensive" to "it is literally cheaper to have a cocaine addiction".

EnTyme wrote:If you feel the price is too high, don't buy it. That's what "voting with your wallet" means. If others are still buying it, sorry to say you've been outvoted. That's capitalism for ya.

As far as Blood of the Phoenix is concerned, others weren't buying it. Saw it on a Black Friday say for $150 and it still didn't sell out. So much so that it returned as a deal of the day at GameNerdz last week... and still didn't sell out. The price was, objectively, too high. Which is why Feast of Bones was cheaper. That they'd choose to make $185 the new normal means that $185 was, objectively, not too high - though I think GW is skating the razor's edge with it.

GW is expensive, and I get that. But I'd have far less of a problem with them if their "inflation" was 5% a year, rather than 20%. I think $230 is going to be just as expensive next year as it is this year, but GW desperately wants to break the $200 barrier. As customers, I don't think we should let them, or else the boxes will be $285 in 2021.

If you take the time to compare historical box set pricing in line with inflation instead of cherry-picking results you'll find the price increases become quite reasonable given the massive improvement of product quality. If you want to criticize GW pricing, box sets are the worst possible place to do it.

Of course you are the same person who assured me I would have buyers remorse over the last starter set, where at the end of the day I spent $90 for 8 ironguts, 8 leadbelchers, 2 ironblasters, and 2 tyrants.