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Feels rather consistent with other releases, terrain would have been neat.

Chopstick wrote:

 skullking wrote:

I’m sure it’s been brought up before. But GW has said on several occasions, one of the reasons the 40k squats got cancelled was that tiny dwarf bikers was a silly aesthetic . Yet, strapping dwarfs to balloons, and giving them metal top hats & battle monocles is fine..? Not saying I don’t love the look of KO, but, c’mon GW...

That was old GW from decade ago, and one can't simply talk about silly aesthetic dwarf without mentioning the naked one with weird looking axes, that'd make KO look miles better in comparison.

Then again, the new dwarf aesthetic has a steam punk inspiration, which I believe is still cool? Certainly was when they were released. It is silly, but it’s a silly the current zeitgeist embraces.

I’m pretty sure hairy bearded bikers on Harley’s stopped being ‘cool’ in the early 90s. Cool silly trumps lame silly.

Love the new disc dude.

It wasn't just that dwarves in space were "too silly" it was also that basically no one in the design studio wanted to nor had the inspiration to make them. So they got dropped mostly cause no one at GW cared to make them enough at the time.


It's a worrying downside to a "studio design led team" that I'm sure might be part of the reason why some armies get ignored for insanely long periods of time before they get resurrected.

I feel like the tzeentch endless spells were a kissed opportunity to make a rather large upscale version of single brimstone horror or a duo..
Oh well

dogfender wrote:
I feel like the tzeentch endless spells were a kissed opportunity to make a rather large upscale version of single brimstone horror or a duo..
Oh well

So you wanted a generic fire elemental model? Thank goodness GW went with something that was at least a little bit more original.

I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...

 Sqorgar wrote:
I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...

That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.
2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.

It also pushes the prices down on eBay too.
Would have been nice to see arkonauts in this set just for that reason alone.

So Tzeentch is left as the only Chaos God without a scenery?
Slaanesh the one without dices...

I think Nurgle doesn't have spells.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...

It's not an inflated cost if it's cheaper than the contents are individually? If so then your ire should be directed at the original kit, not the discount box.

Jackal90 wrote:

That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.

First of all, I don't think this is the primary way people consume these sets. Some do, sure, but I doubt even the majority of purchasers are splitting sets. If I had to guess, I'd say the majority of consumers here are either hoarders (like me) who just collect models in easily digestible bundles, or someone interested in starting or adding to both the armies included in the box. Of the ones who split them, probably the biggest group is people who split it with a friend. Then the people who buy the box for (the popular) half of the models and end up selling the (less popular) other half for a significant discount. Then there's the guys who want to unpopular half and get a great deal on them, and finally, players who actually try to use these things as two player starter boxes, despite being far too expensive and obtuse for such a goal.

Basically, only the people who want the unpopular half are actually getting a good deal, and everybody else is dealing with an acceptable discount that is far less than advertised.

Second, these sets tend to be much more worthwhile when you can add a Start Collecting set onto the two player box. For instance, Looncurse was great for Sylvaneth players because you could take the Looncurse and Start Collecting boxes and have a good start on an army with no overlap.

2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.

It only gives a discount if you were actually planning on buying those exact models. The reason why bundling works is that it allows you to sell things which aren't great selling along with the stuff that is, making the customer believe that they got a great discount when they actually spent more than they would've in the first place. The reason why Blood of the Phoenix was bs was because it included a bunch of big, expensive crappy models in with the nice, new ones, making the discount basically the equivalent of a tank nobody even wanted for free.

The discount only matters if you were going to buy it anyway. If you weren't, then you are spending more money to save money on buying the thing you wouldn't have bought otherwise, which is a uniquely human mind trick.

Personally, I'd like to see GW make a bigger effort at making these boxes into actual two-player starter products rather than eBay fodder for people enamored with buying time-limited items they dont' need because GW never gives them enough time to actually consider not buying it.

Since these models are about to go on pre order, it makes me feel like the Christmas reveal was pointless.

I sort of feel like KO got the lesser straw. No endless spell equivalents, no dice. And neither get terrain? Interesting.

 Sqorgar wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:

That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.

First of all, I don't think this is the primary way people consume these sets. Some do, sure, but I doubt even the majority of purchasers are splitting sets. If I had to guess, I'd say the majority of consumers here are either hoarders (like me) who just collect models in easily digestible bundles, or someone interested in starting or adding to both the armies included in the box. Of the ones who split them, probably the biggest group is people who split it with a friend. Then the people who buy the box for (the popular) half of the models and end up selling the (less popular) other half for a significant discount. Then there's the guys who want to unpopular half and get a great deal on them, and finally, players who actually try to use these things as two player starter boxes, despite being far too expensive and obtuse for such a goal.

Basically, only the people who want the unpopular half are actually getting a good deal, and everybody else is dealing with an acceptable discount that is far less than advertised.

Second, these sets tend to be much more worthwhile when you can add a Start Collecting set onto the two player box. For instance, Looncurse was great for Sylvaneth players because you could take the Looncurse and Start Collecting boxes and have a good start on an army with no overlap.

2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.

It only gives a discount if you were actually planning on buying those exact models. The reason why bundling works is that it allows you to sell things which aren't great selling along with the stuff that is, making the customer believe that they got a great discount when they actually spent more than they would've in the first place. The reason why Blood of the Phoenix was bs was because it included a bunch of big, expensive crappy models in with the nice, new ones, making the discount basically the equivalent of a tank nobody even wanted for free.

The discount only matters if you were going to buy it anyway. If you weren't, then you are spending more money to save money on buying the thing you wouldn't have bought otherwise, which is a uniquely human mind trick.

Personally, I'd like to see GW make a bigger effort at making these boxes into actual two-player starter products rather than eBay fodder for people enamored with buying time-limited items they dont' need because GW never gives them enough time to actually consider not buying it.

A set that contains 2 armies plus all of the rules to play them against each other.
That’s a 2 player set.
It doesn’t matter what you want it to be, that won’t change what it is.

It’s a deal for both players.
The “less popular” half has literally 0 meaning if someone actually wants it and splits the set with another person.

Overlap isn’t a bad thing at all.
The new Battletome is also landing and judging by the new hero, I’d say riggers/wardens have a battle line option.
If that is the case then the overlap for them is actually a good thing.

Now, considering the set is actually based as battles in the air, what other KO units would you prefer in this set?
I’m not seeing any that will fit the criteria while remaining reasonable.

I get that you don’t like the contents, but it is what it is.
There is still a decent discount for players that want the stuff.

The Tzeentch spells are fun. I like the icon and the book.

Wish they'd do ones for the Skydorfs though - "Mechanical Machinations" would work - as well as terrain for them (and everyone who doesn't yet have terrain).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The Tzeentch spells are fun. I like the icon and the book.

Wish they'd do ones for the Skydorfs though - "Mechanical Machinations" would work - as well as terrain for them (and everyone who doesn't yet have terrain).

I prefer “Aethermantic Emanations” myself - they already have a wizard and priest equivalents in the aetheric navigators and aether-khemists so why not roll with that?
They could even be unique in that they require the Khemist to “cast” them (dispersing the appropriate gas from his anatomiser) but the Navigator to control them (by manipulating the winds) because they aren’t “real” living spells but self-sustains alchemical reactions.

Jackal90 wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...

That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.
2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.

It also pushes the prices down on eBay too.
Would have been nice to see arkonauts in this set just for that reason alone.

That assumes that the hauler is worth something. Given how universally "meh" those cheap-ish monster units are (see Allopex), I have doubts. As it is, getting the hero off ebay will be the best course of action for an established KO player. Unless he's just bad, in which case ignore him and the whole box too.

Cronch wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
I know the KO don't have a ton of units to choose from, but the KO half of Aether War has a 50% overlap with the Start Collecting box, and has less models. It'll be hard for GW to convince potential KO players that whatever excessively inflated cost they choose to charge for this box will be worth it...

That would be because a 2 player set and a start collecting set are entirely different.
Generally you will go halves with someone or just buy the half you want.
2 sets of riggers plus the hauler come in at £80 right away.
The character is likely to be another £20.
Even if the set is £140 (Phoenix cost) half of the set still gives a big discount.

It also pushes the prices down on eBay too.
Would have been nice to see arkonauts in this set just for that reason alone.

That assumes that the hauler is worth something. Given how universally "meh" those cheap-ish monster units are (see Allopex), I have doubts. As it is, getting the hero off ebay will be the best course of action for an established KO player. Unless he's just bad, in which case ignore him and the whole box too.

And you are assuming that units roles and abilities won’t change either.
As it appears, there is now a new battle line option in the army depending on the general.
So straight away that’s an entirely new build option for lists.
The hauler is currently “meh” levels, but so it almost everything for KO.
Judging by book release patterns, KO should get a solid book as StD got an average-decent one.

And these sets aren’t for established players, that’s the whole idea for a 2 player starter set.
So what would you change for the KO in this set?

I'd say 90% ish of the two-army sets bought in my community are split between two players.

Like the endless spells but was expecting the Tzeentch ones to be an order of magnitude greater than normal ones. For Tzeentch specifically they seem a bit... Tame?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:


Like the endless spells but was expecting the Tzeentch ones to be an order of magnitude greater than normal ones. For Tzeentch specifically they seem a bit... Tame?

Well, let's see what they do, first. Personally, I'm hoping that an army so heavily dependent on its magic will see a huge bump in that area, given all the anti-magic we've been seeing this year.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:


Like the endless spells but was expecting the Tzeentch ones to be an order of magnitude greater than normal ones. For Tzeentch specifically they seem a bit... Tame?

Well, let's see what they do, first. Personally, I'm hoping that an army so heavily dependent on its magic will see a huge bump in that area, given all the anti-magic we've been seeing this year.

I was referencing visuals. Obviously the effects could still be crazy, and even if they weren't Tzeentch's ability to cast spells reliably makes them comparatively stronger.

Or, in plain English: Aether Wars is a good set unless you are part of the minority tournament players in which case it isn’t , but you willl still buy it anyway for the two exclusive characters through fear either or both unlock some kind of netlist.

I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.

Jackal90 wrote:
I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.

That's already been addressed.

Chikout wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.

That's already been addressed.

How the hell did I miss that? Lol.
Where about sis that please?

Jackal90 wrote:

Chikout wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.

That's already been addressed.

How the hell did I miss that? Lol.
Where about sis that please?

In the designers commentary for core rules.

Chikout wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:

Chikout wrote:

Jackal90 wrote:
I’m just hoping they update the more recent FAQs.
I’d love to see a full steam tank army but behemoth limits prevent it currently.
FEC can pull this so it’d be nice to see another army get it for fluff reasons alone.

That's already been addressed.

How the hell did I miss that? Lol.
Where about sis that please?

In the designers commentary for core rules.

Thank you!
I’d never checked that for some reason.
Guess I’m now ordering 9 steam tanks lol.

Faction Focus for the Overlords article up.

Cherry picking a big bit:

Skyvessels have been tweaked considerably. Now, units embarked upon them count as a garrison.

Eh. The aether-share system is annoying from a fluff perspective. They describe it as a desperation move when the 'chips are down,' but since it's granting rerolls and what not it's obviously best used early when at full strength so you get the most value out of it.

Sounds like they got a lot of customization options though. Hope those aren't as open to sheninangans as I imagine.

Wow are those Tzeentch spells seriously all just parts of the Lord of Change digital file with extra flame thrown in? Setting new records for a half-assed release here.