Switch Theme:

New chaos rumours  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Fresh-Faced New User




This was hard to go through the last pages to find a little stuff...:

If I forgot something I'm sorry PM please for info forgotten to be added

Will be edited to add rumours

Rumours:

ARMY LIST
HQ:
Lord :
WS 6 | BS 5 | S 4 | T 4 | W 3 | I 5 | A 3 | Ld 10 | Sv 3+/5+
-Fearless
-Daemonic Aura (5+ invulnerable) as standard
-Can have an Icon
-Can have Terminator Armour, Bike, Wings, or Steed
-The Daemonic Steed options are:
.....-Palanquin of Nurgle: +1 A, +1 W; count as 2 models in Land Raider
.....-Juggernaut of Khorne: +1 A, +1 S; may not be transported
.....-Disc of Tzeentch: +1 A, Jump Pack
.....-Steed of Slaanesh: +1 A, Cavalry
-Can be marked
-The Chaos Lord is equiped with a Bolt Pistol and CCW. You can purchase a Combi-Weapon for him.
-According to the source of these rumours, the Chaos Lord entry is similar to the Carnifex entry, with nearly 3/4's of the page given over to all the options he can take. Chaos Lords have apparently just as much choice as before if not a little more.
-Daemon weapon are cheaper if in Terminator Armour.
-Cannot be saved from instant death (no rune or whatnot)
-Comes with Bolt Pistol, CCW, frag and krak grenades
-Can have:
...Icons;
...-Plasma Pistol
...-Power Weapon
...-Power Fist
...-Deamon Weapon
...-Lightning Claw
...-Pair of Lightning Claws
...-Melta Bombs

Daemon Prince:
WS 7 | BS 3 | S 6 | T 5 | W 4 | I 5 | A 4 | Ld 10 | Sv 3+/5+
-110 points
-Fearless
-Daemonic Aura (5+ invulnerable) as standard
-Very few options
-Can have an Icon
-Can have Wings
-Can have psychic powers
-Monstrous Creature
-Is immune to instant death
-May be marked
-May have pychic powers

Sorcerer:
WS 5 | BS 5 | S 4 | T 4 | W 2 | I 5 | A 3 | LD 10 | SV 3+/5+
-Fearless
-Daemonic Aura (5+ invulnerable) as standard
-Can have an Icon
-Can have Terminator Armour, Bike, Wings, or Steed
-Force Weapons as standard
-Sorcerers with an Icon of Tzeentch may use two powers per turn

Greater Daemon
WS 9 | BS ? | S 8 | T 6 | W 4 | I 5 | A ? | LD 10 | SV -/4+
-1 per army max
-100 points
-Does not take up a FOC slot, very cheap for its stats
-Fearless
-Daemonic Aura (4+ invulnerable) as standard
-Monstrous Creature
-Moves as Infantry (no option for wings)
-Can’t be marked
-Possession: When a Greater Daemon becomes available from Reserve, it can replace any friendly character model (aspiring champion, sorcerer, etc) you choose. There is no need to designate a Daemonvessel ahead of time.

ELITE:
Possessed:
WS 4 | BS 4 | S 5 | T 4 | W 1 | I 4 | A 2 | LD 10 | SV 3+/5+
-Cheaper than 22 Pts
-Daemonic Strength and Daemonic Aura (5+ invulnerable) as standard
-Can have an Icon
-Random Power Table. Roll d6 after deployment:
.....1: Scouts
.....2: Furious Charge
.....3: Fleet of foot
.....4: Rending
.....5: Feel no pain
.....6: Power weapons

Chosen:
-One attack
-Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Frags, Kraks
-Can have an Icon
-Huge amount of options (like Dark Angel company veterans)
-May have one heavy weapon and multiple special weapons
-Infiltrate as standard
-5 to 10 models a squad.
-Chosen are not fearless.

Terminators:
-30 Points
-Unit size 3-10
-Combibolter and power weapon
-Can have an Icon
-Any number of models can be upgraded to champions (+1A) for 10 pts
-One heavy weapon per squad, two if the squad is 10 models strong
-Reaper Autocannon is unchanged
-May always Deep Strike

Dreadnoughts:
-Can have Multi-Melta
-May be given 2 DCCW.
-Frenzy table still exists but is slightly changed: If no viable frenzy, count as sane.

TROOPS
Chaos space marines:
-Can have Icon
-Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Krak and Frag Grenades Standard.
-If 10 or more models, may take Heavy or second Special weapon.
-Aspiring champion limited to basic wargear upgrades (PW, PF, PP)
-5 to 20 squad size.

Khorne Berzerkers:
-Have the +1A over normal marines, WS5 and furious charge
-No chainaxes
-They are armed with CCW and BP, and have the option for plasma pistols as they do now.
-Fearless
-No more Blood Frenzy (so no more bonus movement, but also no more uselessly chasing Land Speeders around the table)

Plague Marines:
-Initiative 3
-T4(5)
-Blight grenades (-1A to enemies engaged in hth).
-Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Krak and Frag Grenades Standard.
-Fearless.
-Feel no Pain.
-Can take 2 Special weapons under 10 models.

Noise Marines/Emperors children:
-Access to sonic weapons (replaces bolter)
-Doomsiren AP3, only for Aspiring Champion
-1 blastmaster per squad
-Noise Marines are the cheapest of the Cult marines (before Sonic weaponry)
-Noise Marines can take a heavy weapon with only 6-strong squad
-no more Combat Drugs
- Bolter, Bolt Pistol, CCW, Krak and Frag Grenades Standard.
-Fearless
-Icon of Slaanesh (+1 I)
-One model may have a Blastmaster (blast mode now AP3)

Thousand Sons:
-Slow and purposeful on 1 dice
-Only 1 wound
-Sorcerer sergeant with 2 psychic powers, but no power fist option, and allows 2d6 for slow and purposeful
-No BP or CCW.
-Fearless
-Icon of Tzeentch (4+ Invulnerable)
-All models have AP3 Inferno bolts for their bolters
-Mandatory Sorcerer (comes with Force weapon)
-No more extra wound
-The only CSMs (cult or otherwise) that come with an Aspiring (you have to pay for him tho)
-Asprin Champion has Force Weapon and Bolt Pistol as standard.

Generic Lesser Daemons (Daemon Pack):
WS 4 | BS 4 | S 4 | T 4 | W 1 | I 4 | A 2 | LD 10 | SV -/5+
-Do not take up a troop slot
-5 to 20 in one squad
-No instability
-Can’t take marks
-13 Points
-Summoning: Daemon Packs enter play via Deep Strike, but MUST be placed within 6" of an Icon. Since Icons act like Teleport Homers, this means Daemons will never scatter! They may not move on the turn they arrive, but they CAN assault.

FAST ATTACK:
Raptors
-20 Points
-Less special weapons than before
-Can have an Icon
-May Deep Strike
-No more hit and run
-Can take 20 in one squad
-May take melta bombs

Bikes
-Can have an Icon
-3 to 10 in a squad
-Don't give +1 attack and can't use 2 CCW
-Can get 2 special weapons

Chaos Spawn:
-Does not take up a FOC slot
-About 40 Pts
-Worse save than before
-Slow and Purposeful & Beasts (this means they move 2d6-pick-highest, fleet 1d6, charge 2d6-pick-highest x2)

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Obliterators:
WS 4 | BS 4 | S 4 | T 4 | W 2 | I 4 | A 2 | LD 10 | SV 2+/5+
-Fearless
-75 points
-Slow and Purposeful
-Can morph Plasma cannon, Lascannon, twin-linked plasma gun, twin-linked flamer, twin-linked melta and MULTI-MELTA!!!
-Multimelta and plasma cannon added to available weapons
-Can’t be marked
-Power fists

Predator

Vindicator
-125 points

Land Raider
-Cheaper than before (220 points)
-No more Infernal Device
-Smoke Launcher and Search Light free

Defiler
-150 points
-Fleet
-WS3
-A3
-May exchange Reaper Autocannon and/or Heavy Flamer for additional CCW having up to 6A
-No longer a Monstrous Creature, has Dreadnought CCWs now (bringing its Strength up to 10)
-No more indirect fire

Havocs
-Can take Icons
-Havocs do not have combat squads. Kind of CSM squads that can take 4 special/heavies.
-15 points each
-Can be up*to 20 in one squad

VEHICLES:
-Smoke Launchers and Searchlights as standard on all vehicles
-Extra Armour is 15 points
-Combi-weapon upgrades are still possible.
-Mutated Hull is gone.
-Daemonic Possession no longer negates transport capacity, but reduces BS to 3.
-Rihno is 35 points
-There are still Dirge Casters, Pintle Mounted Weapons, Dozer Blades and Havok Launchers available for vehicles. Not all of those are available to all vehicles.
-Havoc Launcher is like a Typhoon Missile Launcher (+1 STR, - AP, -1 Shot and TL form the current one)


MARK OF CHAOS (Icons)
-These now take the form of Icons that most units can take. The cost of an Icon is fixed for each unit, regadless of unit size. This means larger units essentially pay less points per model for the same Icon.
-All units except vehicles, Obliterators and Cult units can purchase one of the following Icons (listed from least to most expensive):
-Icon of Chaos Glory: The new name for Mark of Chaos Undivided. Grants morale re-rolls. Not available to ICs as they are all Fearless anyway.
-Icon of Slaanesh: +1 initiative
-Icon of Khorne: +1 attack
-Icon of Tzeentch: Grants a 5+ invulnerable, or improved existing invulnerable by 1 (so Termies go up to 4+, for example)
-Icon of Nurgle: +1 tougness (does not count towards instant death)
-These Icons are the only way to align a non-Cult unit to a particular god. They grant no other benefits than what is listed above (Icon of Slaanesh does not grant access to Sonic weaponry, for example)
-All Icons also act as Teleport Homers for Daemons, Terminators and Obliterators.

PSYCHIC POWERS
-Some major powers still exist (Wind of Chaos, Gift of Chaos, Doombolt)
Doombolt changes to S4 AP3
-Warp Time is a new psychic power that allows the caster to re-roll failed rolls to hit and to wound in close combat
-Each god except Khorne also has one specific power:
-Nurgle: Nurgle's Rot; Range 12", all models in target unit take a S3 hit on 4+. Saves -allowed.
-Slaanesh: Lash of Submission; If target unit fails Ld test, you may move it 2d6"
-Tzeentch: Bolt of Change; as before but AP1
-No more mass mutation

UNIT LIST:
HQ: Chaos Lord, Chaos Sorcerer, Daemon Prince, Generic Greater Daemon*
Elites: Chosen, Terminators, Dreadnought, Possessed
Troops: Chaos Space Marines, Berserkers, Plague Marines, Thousand Sons, Noise Marines, Generic Daemons*
Fast: Raptors, Bikes, Chaos Spawn*
Heavy: Havocs, Defiler, Vindicator, Land Raider, Predator, Obliterators

Units marked with (*) do not actually use up slots on the Force Organisation Chart
There are no 0-1 or similar limits anymore except for Greater Daemons whoa re 0-1. Your unit choices are only limited by the FOC. Yes, you can have two Daemon Princes.

GENERAL:
-Veterans skills are mostly gone. A few units still have a predetermined skill, but you may no longer pick and choose.
-There are no cult units beyond those listed in the troops section. For example, the only plague marines are the "plague marines" unit entry in the troops section. You cannot take plague marine havocs or plague marine terminators. You can give terminators the mark of Nurgle, but they only gain +1T, they do not get FNP or blight grenades. This is true for all 4 gods.
-The only way to get a 2+ Save is via Terminator Armor.
-No way to counter psychic powers

DAEMON WEAPONS:
- Daemon Weapons cost 40 pts.
-Grants D6 extra attacks, but if a 1 is rolled for the number of attacks, the model takes a wound and can't make ANY attacks in that combat phase.
-Power Weapon
Two-Handed
- In addition the following marks will have the effect on the Weapon (Mark is determined by what has been applied to the Lord/Sorc):
…-No Mark - +1 STR
…-Khorne - Bloodfeeder - Additional D6 (total of 2D6 Attacks) if a 1 is rolled on either dice, you lose a wound and may not attack. Double 1s is not cumulative, you only lose 1 wound.
…-Nurgle - Plaguebringer - Poisoned attacks that always wound on a 4+.
…-Tzeentch - Deathscreamer - Can be used a shooting weapon with the following profile: 24", S4, AP3, Assault D6 - if a 1 is rolled for number of shots, lose a wound and no shots are fired.
…-Slaanesh - Blissgiver - Causes instant death

SPECIAL CHRACTERS:
-All are HQ choices

Typhus:
-Manreaper is a Nurgle Daemon Weapon that is also a Force weapon
-Has Nurgle's Rot psychic power, does not need to pass psychic test to use it, and may also use the Force weapon in the same turn

Abaddon:
-Has the benefits of all Icons (+1A, +1I, +1T, 4+ invulnerable)
-Drachnyen and the Talon now count as a single Daemon Weapon, which grants +1d6 attacks, doubles strength, and re-rolls all dice to hit and to wound!
-Immune to instant death
-Most expensive SC.

Ahriman:
-Knows all psychic powers except the Slaanesh and Nurgle specific ones
-Force Weapon
-May use up to three psychic powers (including the force weapon) per turn
-He is REALLY expensive. Aside from Abaddon he is the most expensive special character.
-His bolt pistol has inferno bolts not that you will use it all that much.

Kharn:
WS 7 | BS ? | S 5 | W 4 | W ? | I 5 | A ? | LD 10 | SV 3+/5+
-Gorechild gains 2D6 for armour penetration against vehicles
-Immune to all psychic powers
-Furious Charge
-Still hits allies on a 1

Fabius Bile:
-Not too bad. He has a decent amount of attacks. He has Feel No Pain now in addition to a 5+ Invulnerable. Can still enhance models.

Lucius:
-Ddecent for his points. He has a Doom Siren, removes attacks from enemies in BtB with him and does wounds whenever he makes a save in CC.

Huron Blackheart:
-Tyrant's claw is a powerfist with built in heavy flamer.
-Hamadyra grants him the "Warp Time" psychic power

Man people loved to whine please keep this thread free of that...

TheEndIsHere

Taken from me at libriarium online and warseer

 

TheEndIsHere


MyBrute a free addicting game. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

Posted By TheEndIsHere on 06/22/2007 3:22 PM

Man people loved to whine please keep this thread free of that...



Oops?

Seriously though, thanks for compiling this.  I know what hell it is to scour through Warseer rumor threads.

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)







Uh, Greater Demons appear to be no brainers.

Stats are very good, 110 pts is very cheap, can be summoned into ANY Aspiring Champion on the board with no need to designate a vessel....and doesn't take up a FOC slot.  Pretty good bang for your buck there.

Generic Lesser Demons...well look generic.  I'm not so up in arms over the summoning.  Normally you would place the marker, which gave you roughly 4 inches, then moved 6 + 6 for assault....so a total of 16....barring a bad scatter.  Now you place them within 6 inches of any unit with a Icon (Which appears to be about the entire Chaos army), then they assault 6....so you lose 4 inches of movement in exchange for no scatter.  Not a deal breaker when they are 13 points.  I'll still be looking forward to the Demon Dex. 

New Spawn...models = good, rules look bad.  I'll buy them because I like the models...but probably will only see friendly games.

Overall, it will make me field a Khorne army again.  I couldn't bring myself to play all Letters w/ Zerks on bike summoning...and Zerks were a "fun" but worthless unit.  Overall they stayed about the same in doing wounds against MEQ it appears (Trade WS for Chainaxes)...but you can control the damn things, actually shoot your pistols as you charge in AND ride in a 35 pt rhino they won't jump out of.  Plus a Khorne Lord appears to be able to put some serious smackdown.

I imagine we will see Chaos Space Marine armies actually have Chaos Space Marines now.  I don't consider that a bad thing.  Just have to wait and see if the actual dex matches up...

 


Adepticon TT 2009---Best Heretical Force
Adepticon 2010---Best Appearance Warhammer Fantasy Warbands
Adepticon 2011---Best Team Display
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







Wow, just... wow.

Well, guess it is time to put the old Alpha Legion in the underground bunker and wait for Codex: Chaos Space Marines from the next edition.

Shouldn't be too long before they're playable... Say, 5 to 8 years or so?

Wow.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

Plus a Khorne Lord appears to be able to put some serious smackdown.


Don't give him a demon weapon. It looks great (+2d6 attacks!), but 11/36 of the time, you won't get to swing, AND you'll hurt yourself. Ick.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot




In your house, rummaging through your underwear drawer

Rats. I would have loved to see the look on my opponents' face when I had my Juggernaut mounted Lord pop out of a Land Raider.

It would have been priceless.

As much as I want to continue with the Blood God, I'm afraid I'll have to try Thousand Sons this time. I can't believe I just typed that.

"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow"~Oscar Wilde 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





It's a mad mad world.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)







Posted By Janthkin on 06/22/2007 4:08 PM
Plus a Khorne Lord appears to be able to put some serious smackdown.


Don't give him a demon weapon. It looks great (+2d6 attacks!), but 11/36 of the time, you won't get to swing, AND you'll hurt yourself. Ick.



But..but...but....I have a 2%(Almost 3!) chance of getting 17 attacks!   Seriously speaking, I imagine one of those negatives about Demon weapons to be false....they probably floated both around until they decided on one.  I wouldn't be shocked if it was lose 1 wound on 1's or not attack on 1's...but not both.  Archaon being the template.

I hope Abaddon costs an arm and a leg.  The trend being, special chars allowed, he looks to be an absolute beast.  5 + d6 attacks at Str 8 and Ini 6.  Yes please.

 

*Edit  Here are some pics of the new Chaos models painted:

http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/

The possessed freaking rock.  Compare them to the seizure boys we had before....


Adepticon TT 2009---Best Heretical Force
Adepticon 2010---Best Appearance Warhammer Fantasy Warbands
Adepticon 2011---Best Team Display
 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Anyone want to explain how a Daemon Weapon that wounds you 1/6th of the time and also stops you from attacking is worth fourty points.

BYE

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




So I'm just curious, how does everyone feel about the upcoming Chaos book overall? Not too long ago there were alot of complaints about too many MEQ codexes being released, but that seems to have died down abit.

Are people excited that Chaos is getting balanced? Did Chaos even need balancing?

Are people going to appreciate a codex that doesn't make you flip back and forth constantly as you are writing an army list to check rules/stats/armoury? Or is streamling a Chaos codex taking the fun out of the book?

Are people bemoaning the loss of cultists and Basilisks? Are they excited about units and options that seem pretty competitive with each other?

Is the Chaos codex too bland? If yes, how so?

Obviously, we only have rumours to go off of, but most of them seem pretty feasible.

So what does everybody think? Just curious.
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






South NJ/Philly

When you go through what is required to actually get the demons direclty in combat, you realize exactly how terribly designed they are. In every scenario for delivery, you're better off spending the points on more of the delivery unit instead of the new sucktacular demons.

And this is from someone who thought Chaos Demon Bomb armies needed a bit of nerfing, but this is rediculous.

Oh well at least in true GW fashion, there's a few stand outs in most slots that scream "TAKE ME!"

HQ: Flying Demon Prince (x2 Now)
Fast: Raptors
Heavy: Oblits!

Yay, because now every chaos army can take 9 Oblits as walking lascannons.
   
Made in fi
Regular Dakkanaut




So, what do we have here. Daemon Princes are decent (not as good as Hive Tyrants however), Raptors are now like Assault Marines and Obliterators are still OK. The Oblits however aren't nearly as good as before as they've lost that Daemonic Resilience, lost the heavy bolters, and gained 5 points in price. It's now not enough to simply have Obliterators and expect that you can deal with tanks AND with hordes or large squads of SV4+ troopers.

I absolutely despise the new Daemon Weapon rules, Daemon rules, lesser Daemons, greater Daemons, Chaos Space Marine units, nerfed vehicle upgrades and most of the Cult Marines. Before we find out what a unit of Thousand Sons with Sorcerer costs, it's hard to decide whether they are useful at all. AP3 bolter may be nice and all but it's all about the points cost in the end.

All in all a big tone down for Chaos.

Well, as Ed Maule once famously said: "Therion's from Finland, where comp does not exist. Where he's from the trash we're forced to field for a tournament would lose to a 12 year old." - bigchris1313 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

Seriously speaking, I imagine one of those negatives about Demon weapons to be false....they probably floated both around until they decided on one. I wouldn't be shocked if it was lose 1 wound on 1's or not attack on 1's...but not both. Archaon being the template.


I believe this one. Go take a look at the WHFB Chaos book, and specifically the Daemon Sword rules - very similar issues.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
GW Public Relations Manager (Privateer Press Mole)







Posted By Janthkin on 06/22/2007 8:56 PM
Seriously speaking, I imagine one of those negatives about Demon weapons to be false....they probably floated both around until they decided on one. I wouldn't be shocked if it was lose 1 wound on 1's or not attack on 1's...but not both. Archaon being the template.


I believe this one. Go take a look at the WHFB Chaos book, and specifically the Daemon Sword rules - very similar issues.

 

If I recall correctly, the Demon Sword rules stated if you roll a 1 you resolve the attack against yourself...so it's too late to do the math but I would imagine that's not as striking as not allowing a model to attack at all AND doing an auto wound with no ward/inv saves.  I don't feel like doing the math though .

If it is true, it's pretty bad judgement.  It doesn't give a Str bonus, so for 15 (Or whatever) points might as well go for a basic power weapon. 


Adepticon TT 2009---Best Heretical Force
Adepticon 2010---Best Appearance Warhammer Fantasy Warbands
Adepticon 2011---Best Team Display
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Wasn't there a question for a while whether there is a limit to the number of attacks you can get? i.e. if the demon sword adds to the attack stat, can it run into a limit of ten attacks?

Manfred on Dwarfs: "it's like fighting a mountain, except the mountain stabs back."

For Hearth and Home! 
   
Made in ie
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch





You are right there is a limit of 10 on your attack stat (and things like Charging are included in this limit), but I suspect it another case of GW forgetting their own rules.

DR:80+S++G+MB--IPw40k00#-D++++A+++/aWD100R+T(D)DM++++

Church: So it is a sword, It just happens to function like a key in very specific situations.
Caboose: Or it's a key all the time, and when you stick it in people, it unlocks their death.  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Los Angeles

Posted By Therion- on 06/22/2007 8:22 PM

Before we find out what a unit of Thousand Sons with Sorcerer costs, it's hard to decide whether they are useful at all. AP3 bolter may be nice and all but it's all about the points cost in the end.

Early rumors point to a price tag equal to their price last edition, but with a more expensive Sorceror, because of his standard-issue force weapon.

"The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the 'common sense' argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The player's resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere. " - Ozymandias 
   
Made in us
Hellacious Havoc




"You are right there is a limit of 10 on your attack stat (and things like Charging are included in this limit), but I suspect it another case of GW forgetting their own rules"

I must have missed this rule (I am more of a novice), do you know what page it is on?
If that is true, then there is almost no point in doing a Korn lord / daemon prince w/ d.weapon. The reward would be too insignificant.

   
Made in us
Phanobi





Paso Robles, CA, USA

Actually, I think that's wrong. The base stat may not exceed 10 but I think that you are allowed to get more than 10 attacks due to charging, extra weapon, drugs, etc...

I'll have to dig to see where I read that...

Ozymandias, King of Kings

My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings.
Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.

Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.

This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.

A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy 
   
Made in us
Scrap Thrall





I dislike the removal of the Legion specific rules.  I felt that there were some great opportunities available for both the undivided and marked legions.  I felt that it gave some good flavor to armies and nudged you into making some interesting army compositions (deathguard especially).  It seems that the legion specific rules were largely an overreacting to the abuse that was available to certain Iron Warriors builds.

I do like the changes to the cult troops for the most part.  I am most pleased with the changes to Plague Marines.   Emperors Children seem about the same.  The Thousand Sons got a much needed boost but it does not feel like it was based much in fluff. 

I think that Khorne Berzerkers made out the worst.  I find the 5 weapon skill satisfying on a gut level and  Furious charge is nice but I rarely took it when I had the option to buy it.  The problem is they no longer have choppas (which made them a viable threat to many close units which can now shrug them off) and end up costing more for an assault unit with no special movement.  They have ended up only slightly more effective against basic marines on the charge and are much worse in a sustained assault.  I just don't see them being an effective basis for competitive army at this point.

I am pretty disappointed by the loss of veteran skills and mutations which I felt added a great deal of flexibility to list building.  The loss of differentiated deamon weapons is weak.

Finally, I am disappointed by the generic deamon rules and the kind of Chaos Multicultural Alliance feel that the book has.

Overall I like some of the changes to some of the cult troops and the inclusion of a better sorcerer but am disappointed by the homogenization of the book.

   
Made in us
Scrap Thrall





(Dreaded Double Post)

   
Made in us
[DCM]
.







I'm with you FF...

Really, they needed to make changes to IW and maybe EC (the dreaded Siren Price, mostly), tighten up some of the ambiguities and get all of the changes from the "stealth updates" under control.

Instead, well, we basically get the end of the Traitor Legions except for the Black Legion.

Apparently, we're supposed to make a Rainbow Colors of Chaos attack force, picking and choosing the best of the best and smile and be happy...
   
Made in nz
Fresh-Faced New User




Posted By Zoned on 06/22/2007 7:53 PM
So I'm just curious, how does everyone feel about the upcoming Chaos book overall? Not too long ago there were alot of complaints about too many MEQ codexes being released, but that seems to have died down abit.

Are people excited that Chaos is getting balanced? Did Chaos even need balancing?

Are people going to appreciate a codex that doesn't make you flip back and forth constantly as you are writing an army list to check rules/stats/armoury? Or is streamling a Chaos codex taking the fun out of the book?

Are people bemoaning the loss of cultists and Basilisks? Are they excited about units and options that seem pretty competitive with each other?

Is the Chaos codex too bland? If yes, how so?

Obviously, we only have rumours to go off of, but most of them seem pretty feasible.

So what does everybody think? Just curious.
I'm not really interested in stats at all, so my enjoyment is based on just how much i LIKE an army, and the fun of looking through the codex and putting together ideas, lists, stories with lists, lists with stories. You know, the endless permutations and the character. So I don't think I will like it. I don't like the new style of codex. I've looked at 2 and I just don't like the way they're layed out, but obviously you can't please everyone, so someone, like me, just has to be disappointed with some things.
My favourite chaos stuff is lost and the damned, playing with slaneesh colours, working out what to use for demon models that aren't to expensive and my beloved, crazy bezerkers. Awwwh, aren't they sweet? So I think the new chaos army is lacking in character. And variation. I can't create interesting, totally different army lists like slaneesh and khornate armies, and the fun things - like demons - are being limited. I'm not sure how it will work with the interaction with lost and the damned, but I'm still taking my IG traitor units from the old IG codex, so I'll probably continue with the old codex. I suppose we really have to see it to decide what we think. But.... I'm not enthusiastic. I want my chaos army to be.... chaotic. Now, if the rumours about this other cultist codex come true, which I doubt, and it won't be for years anyway, I'd buy it in a second.
Basically, I don't play chaos for the space marines, I play it for the mutants, demons and the things that are different, like obliterators and the defiler. The chaos space marines are just a simple, generic base to provide a strong base around which to put all the awesome stuff. This is really a chaos SPACE MARINES  codex. Which is good if that 's what you want... but there are already a lot of space marines to choose from, and I'd probably choose a loyalist space marines army if that was my focus.
   
Made in ca
Dakka Veteran




I'm a little confused over the moaning over the loss of Legion specific rules. I can still play a Death Guard army, can't I? I can still take Lords with the Mark of Nurgle, Plague Marines, and now I have basic Chaos Marines/Termies/Raptros with Nurgle Icons for more Nurgly goodness? So what did I lose? Free aspiring Champs and +1 to summoning rolls for sacred units? Overall, I think the trade off came off well.

Concerning Berzerkers:

Current Berzerkers: 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/8 = 12.5%
New Berzkerers: 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/3 = 2/18 = 1/9 = 11%
New Berzerkes on the charge: 2/3 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 4/27 = 14.8%

If the rumours are true, it looks like Berzerkers lost a little effectiveness without charging, and gained a little effective on the charge. Time will tell how the points have been adjusted.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Up, I'm sure. Most of the cult troops look like they're going up 3-6 points each.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






San Jose, CA

I'm a little confused over the moaning over the loss of Legion specific rules. I can still play a Death Guard army, can't I? I can still take Lords with the Mark of Nurgle, Plague Marines, and now I have basic Chaos Marines/Termies/Raptros with Nurgle Icons for more Nurgly goodness? So what did I lose? Free aspiring Champs and +1 to summoning rolls for sacred units? Overall, I think the trade off came off well.


You don't have Plague Marine termies or Raptors; the Icon does not add the actual Plague Marine rules to units that take it. You don't have ANY Nurgle-specific Daemons (nor any lesser daemons worth considering). You don't have any Nurgle-specific wargear, beyond a single psychic power.

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? 
   
Made in us
Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration





You can mark termies or raptors with the mark of nurgle.

The icon only works as a summoning beacon. Does it need to add plague marine rules?

All daemons are generic, unaligned daemons. You can use nurgle daemon models to represent them. No nurgle specific rules, but we are going for the nurgle look here.

Daemon weapon becomes nurgley when on a character with the mark.

There is enough in the whole list to play with if you choose to. If you don't want to, then that is your prerogative. My old Deathguard running friend seems to like all he sees so far. He hates playing Deathguard as they are right now vs. most armies.

The glass is either half empty or half full, depending on how you want to look at it.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. 
   
Made in us
Tinkering Tech-Priest







The New Berzerkers will get a big boost when you add an Aspiring Champ. WS 5 Powerfists are awesome. Even if Berzerker Champs can't get access to powerfists, on the charge the new Berzerker Champ with power weapon is still pretty awesome. Now if they don't have access to powered weapons, then they will be weaksausce aginst MEQs.

Check out my painting and Modeling Blog
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/228997.page

 
   
Made in nz
Fresh-Faced New User




Posted By Toreador on 06/27/2007 5:38 PM
   No nurgle specific rules, but we are going for the nurgle look here.

Some people are going for a nurgle (or other chaos god) look, and some want to have nurgle (or other chaos god) rules that change the game play and make it a different army. Otherwise they would just be the green, red, blue and pink armies, and you'd just paint your models a different colour. You can get a little bit of the feel of the chaos god with the icons and with the right lord, and of course by taking the cult troops, but for a lot of it you are just painting the army a gross green colour and calling it nurgle. People want different things, but in the last codex you could go either all out, or just take token troops towards a chaos god. Now, however, you cannot go all out, so this codex has lost something that some people want.
   
Made in us
RogueSangre





The Cockatrice Malediction

Posted By FireFall on 06/27/2007 1:47 PM
I think that Khorne Berzerkers made out the worst.  I find the 5 weapon skill satisfying on a gut level and  Furious charge is nice but I rarely took it when I had the option to buy it?
The WS5 doesn't sit well with me personally.  To me +1 A is reflective of a berzerker rage whereas WS is more of a finesse stat.  I think a better fit would have been Preferred Enemy: Everybody.

Posted By Zoned on 06/27/2007 4:29 PM
I'm a little confused over the moaning over the loss of Legion specific rules. I can still play a Death Guard army, can't I?
Not really.  There is no such thing as a "Death Guard army" anymore.  There is only the "Chaos Space Marines army".  You can take a CSM army and call it Death Guard or Black Legion or whatever you want, but it's still just a vanilla CSM army.

Posted By Zoned on 06/27/2007 4:29 PM
I can still take Lords with the Mark of Nurgle, Plague Marines, and now I have basic Chaos Marines/Termies/Raptros with Nurgle Icons for more Nurgly goodness?
Not only that, your "Death Guard army" can now take Thousand Sons as troops!  Hurrah!!
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: