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WHY DO THEY?
i mean if you hate them dont play the game.
if you hate the rules dont play it
if you hate the price build your own
i mean you wouldnt torch a suv for the enviroment the go to a hummer dealership?
i like gw i think there prices are fair and i like the rules

facepalm.jpg

LEAVE GW ALONE!!!

Well I'm not a big fan of GW. But I do like the game. They don't seem to make great decisions business wise. As their products become less popular they raise the price to create a larger barrier of entry into the game for newer players. When they should be lowering it to see a boom of new players then raising the prices in better economic times. They really ignore a lot of gray areas and weird loopholes in their rules that could easily be solved with a little playtesting, at least in 40k anyway. I have no real complaints about Fantasy.

Those are the two things you really asked to talk about, but I'd like to add a third. The staff at the GW stores are always kind of weird. I know they are nerds, I know they are trying to sell me stuff. But don't push me to buy stuff. It's really inappropriate for this hobby. It's already pretty expensive, you don't need to remind me the guard codex came out five times. I know, I don't like guard, I don't really like 40k at the moment. So stop telling me. It's just a personal thing, and I've never really been a geeks geek. It's why I don't really ever go there for anything I can get at the local store I go to. But sometimes I have to check if I'm in the area.

Edit: I wish my response was as awesome and hilarious as the others... damn my lack of judgment.
Edit: Also Garret, work on your spelling and stuff dude, really. Your from America, I'm certain it's the only language you speak.

garret wrote:WHY DO THEY?
i mean if you hate them dont play the game.
if you hate the rules dont play it
if you hate the price build your own
i mean you wouldnt torch a suv for the enviroment the go to a hummer dealership?
i like gw i think there prices are fair and i like the rules

No, they aren't. I worked a year at Iron Wind Metals (BattleTech, Shadowrun, WarGods of Aegyptus, Ral Partha) - I know how much it costs to produce a metal model, cast it, pack it, and ship it. GW's costs are WAY out of line for character models. Their price increases in general have mainly been naked money grabs, being far, FAR above even the 3%-ish yearly inflation we've been seeing. The price per model for plastic IG, for example, is getting to the $4 US region now. Reaper's doing that with metal. Catalyst Game Labs managed to stuff 24 plastic Mechs into a $40 boxed set along with full-color rulebooks, cardstock charts, maps, and so for. Up until the price of tin tripled a few years ago, IWM was doing metal minis for $5 a model. What's the average PPM in the GW line right now? IIRC, it's somewhere in the $12-13 region.

Moreover, GW corporate polices have been openly admitted to not care about long-term gamers and aimed more toward the short-term tween buyer with a huge disposable income. Yes, it makes money. No, it's neither friendly to the players nor a good way to build a stable customer base.

Yes, I know it's a troll thread. It doesn't make it any less wrong.

Also, ask why people give other people crap for horrible grammar, capitalization, and basic punctuation.


Because they DESERVE it.



Ghidorah

$3.5 for 2 oz of paint seems really fair.........................

I like their models, I don't really like their 40k rules.

In recent years at communication tech has gotten cheaper and other companies have moved towards closer relations with their customer base GW has moved in the opposite direction.

They closed their forums. They stopped publishing FAQs. The stopped running articles with content in their house magazine. Designers no longer post (openly) on web forums. The do not preview army lists for feedback, they release them like writs from the Spase Emporer and expect us to fawn over them, despite obvious rule problems.

For a company whose games require hundreds of dollars AND hundreds of hours of prep to play this is a terrible, terrible, idea.

...and yet we still buy it all up, like well trained animals.

About the FAQs, I have to say that GW has gotten quite a bit better with them recently. Not every single question has been answered, but barring the new IG book, the Lizardmen book, and the WOTR rulebook, every other codex or armybook has had an FAQ. This includes the more recent Dark Elves, Warriors or Chaos, Daemons, Space Marines...etc.

Swordguy wrote:No, they aren't. I worked a year at Iron Wind Metals (BattleTech, Shadowrun, WarGods of Aegyptus, Ral Partha) - I know how much it costs to produce a metal model, cast it, pack it, and ship it. GW's costs are WAY out of line for character models. Their price increases in general have mainly been naked money grabs, being far, FAR above even the 3%-ish yearly inflation we've been seeing. The price per model for plastic IG, for example, is getting to the $4 US region now. Reaper's doing that with metal. Catalyst Game Labs managed to stuff 24 plastic Mechs into a $40 boxed set along with full-color rulebooks, cardstock charts, maps, and so for. Up until the price of tin tripled a few years ago, IWM was doing metal minis for $5 a model. What's the average PPM in the GW line right now? IIRC, it's somewhere in the $12-13 region.

Moreover, GW corporate polices have been openly admitted to not care about long-term gamers and aimed more toward the short-term tween buyer with a huge disposable income. Yes, it makes money. No, it's neither friendly to the players nor a good way to build a stable customer base.

Yes, I know it's a troll thread. It doesn't make it any less wrong.

As somebody will point later on, probably MDG, Iron Wind is not a big company, it doesn´t have brick&mortar stores to "promote" the hobby nor is it a public traded one that apparently HAS A LEGAL OBLIGATION (never heard about this before but UK is a funny place) to maximize profit for shareholders plus a board that want money too, and the personal secretary for the CEO, and the legal dept, and the bean counters, and the communication dept (MIA since 2000)...

So a 4€ plastic guardsman barely covers the costs, GW´s overheads are not enough so you better send a donation now before they go belly up.

M.

PS: Yep, half this post is sarcasm that doesn´t read to well on the net but when I was in college I learnt the going big was supposed to improve your efficiency, scale economies and such, but as usual GW added all the inefficiencies along the way.

Nofasse 'Eadhunta wrote:

LEAVE GW ALONE!!!

I dont like that emo guy in the pic , nor do i like Nofasses Eadhunta .

But , i approve of this post

But seriousely , GW is only half at fault. As they are just like any other buisness and not charity, their ultimate goal = profit.
They'll squeeze as much $ out of their products aslong as the customers allow them too , which we do.
The problem though is this is generally not a nice way to do buisness even if its legit , and instead of lowering the price due to low sales
they just keep raising it. Its sort of like boiling it to the point of no return ( very risky no?)

Personally the 2 thing i hate about GW :

Trying to justify their pricings : " well these minis used to be on pewter and cost a bunch more ,now plastic you are actually saving... "
But er... the problem is, technology gets better, its part of evolving.
I mean before the industrial evolution , normal goods are made by hours of labor. Are we supposed to pay them by the hour x how many people it used to take? OMG NO

Inconsistent /vague rules , and the sloooow response time for adding the fix.

Same old story really. It's a shame when a hobby company gets taken over by big business. On the other hand, it's also a shame when a hobby company makes poor business decisions which put them into the ground.

Personally, my only real beef is with pricing and price related bits. GW is gouging, that's pretty obvious when you look toward the competition who generally aren't doing enough volume to have lower unit production costs than GW or their financial report alluding to the 70+% (if I read the thing right that is) profit margins. GW's prices are the hobby equivalent of a good Scotch, as much as the market will tolerate. I realize it's good business sense and all, but I'm cheap, so I'll bitch about price.

In terms of the GW hate around the weeb, bear two things in mind. First, the internet is a communication medium which people use to complain about things and trade pornography. Second, geeks are GW's core demographic and most of us at least like to think that we know best and often the easiest way to demonstrate that is to tear someone or something down.

In terms of GW though; I like their models, most of them anyway. Their rules are entertaining enough for me and while I'll admit they're not perfect, they work well enough for the games I play. I don't like their pricing because I'm a cheap bastard and some of their packaging pisses me off (Death Cult Assassins in blisters of two when I want to field them in a single unit of three, for example though I'm sure folks can point to other ones). I also get annoyed that I can't find a Fantasy Army for which I like all of the models, but that's me being picky and not wanting another horde.

NO_SUCH_LUCK wrote:...and yet we still buy it all up, like well trained animals.

Of course some of us do everything in our power to get things as cheap as we can.

And some of us spend more money on other companies.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

NO_SUCH_LUCK wrote:...and yet we still buy it all up, like well trained animals.

Of course some of us do everything in our power to get things as cheap as we can.

HBMC , im sure you and cheese elemental 's competition no doubt attracts ALOT of new customer to them.

Will they consider giving you guys additional discounts now?

garret wrote:i think there prices are fair

Can I follow you around and collect some of the money that apparently falls from the sky during your day?

Listen, when your parents stop buying you GW stuff and you start buying it on your own, you'll realize that it's just not worth it.

Which is why I no longer purchase anything from GW. At all. It's all ChaosOrc (who has a lot of goodies) or eBay or the Warstore, or even other companies which I've just been trying out.

Sure GW makes some nice models, but they're so expensive.

:edit:

Neconilis, you're a genius. Send me around 10%, will you? I'll buy a new house and car even with that small amount.

LunaHound wrote:I dont like that emo guy in the pic , nor do i like Nofasses Eadhunta .

Hurr, lemme just sig that

Vladsimpaler wrote:Neconilis, you're a genius. Send me around 10%, will you? I'll buy a new house and car even with that small amount.

Can do man, the day I consider anything from GW cheap is the day I can afford to burn money in a barrel to heat my house, so if you want some it's yours =)

H.B.M.C. wrote:

NO_SUCH_LUCK wrote:...and yet we still buy it all up, like well trained animals.

Of course some of us do everything in our power to get things as cheap as we can.

Whatever

NO_SUCH_LUCK wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

NO_SUCH_LUCK wrote:...and yet we still buy it all up, like well trained animals.

Of course some of us do everything in our power to get things as cheap as we can.

Whatever

I suppose that's more suitable for Forgeworld, not GW.

LunaHound wrote:Will they consider giving you guys additional discounts now?

I doubt it. And I don't mind either. I'm just supporting my FLGS... which happens to be on the other side of the planet to me, but making it not-so-local, but still.

I'm done. Good luck getting them to reduce their prices through internet complaining. I don't think they even know any of the forums even exist.

People dont hate them as such its more the pure disappointment of another price rise. Im through with them as a company, i would have stayed for WOTR but then i saw the new prices for the elves, £20 a box for foot and cavalry. Yes £20 for 6 cavalry models for LOTR. Ill pass, and ill find like most people are doing cheaper better wargames elsewhere

Damn double post. Sorry

It is disappointment rather than hate in a lot of cases. Games Workshop seems to go out of it's way to prove that it cares about it's profit margin a lot more than there customers. And yes, I know it's a company and needs to make the investors and Shareholders happy. And that's fine and dandy. But you also need to keep your consumer base happy and that...just ain't happening.

They outright refuse to support folks with FAQs and Codex updates. When they do they tends to screw them up anyway. I know a lot of folk dread new Codex's because they'll end up loosing models and the like, or taking away options that you have on your models.

And they're raising the prices on models that aren't always the best quality. I know some of the models I've had to build have been a nightmare to actually assemble because of warping or mismatched parts. I find the current prices a problem, and with the new price rises, well, I'm gonna be in the Dakka swap shop to get my armies more often than not. I've already got a solid core to my Empire army for a fraction of what Games Workshop would charge.

Frankly, the only time I've bought something from Games Workshop itself this year has been paints and Codex releases. All the models I build from spares and bits, or grab off Dakka and MegaMinis.

Essentially, I know this likely hurts Games Workshop since I drop around a £600 a year on this hobby, and many spend a lot more. But I'll start giving a crap about them when they give one about me.

There are 4 things that annoy me about Games Workshop:
1.) They name things wrong - new IG codex Hellguns are now Hot Shot Lasguns which are totally different things.
2.) They try to pull the wool over our eyes - buy a 20 man box set for £18, buy a 10 man box set for £10, it may aswell be 1 for the price of 2! Also - things like specialist movement trays that you practically have to buy to play the War Of The Ring Expansion. And in fact thats another point - in the beginning there were three games LOTR, 40K and WHFB. Now they are all practically a squad based game with movement, shooting and assault phases. The ony different things are the Skirmish games and they are expensive and haven't been updated. (Not that we want them updated because GW would mess it up)
3.) Continuity errors. Compare the leg sizes of the new Cadian command squad with the old Cadians and the commanders look sodding anorexic.
4.) As Jon mentions, poor build quality of minatures.
EDIT: Number 5 - they never reply to your e-mails or they reply then you post another question and then they ignore you.

I feel better now,

The OC-D

P.S. I am one of these people that get annoyed very easily. Just annoyed, not angry or extremist.

Yeah i'm not very fond of GW, it's been said before, it's more ofa dissapointment then anything else.

I do get the feeling that their price raises, is really going to hurt the GW as a company and loose most of it's customers because they are just demanding too higher prices, but sadly i have been sucked into forgeworld so i shouldn't really complain...
Hey who knows, this rise in prices may really shell shock GW into knowing why price rises dont help at all, and slight decreases do !

however the drop in customer support is pretty dramatic, no FAQ's, no forums, its just sending out bad messages about GW which is a shame because i enjoy their games but gah they do it so badly.

Anyway i must go back to saving money for my next forgeworld purchase haha !