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Do they still consider the internet to be a fad?

They'll squeeze as much $ out of their products aslong as the customers allow them too

Someone doesn't know that much about business...
O.K. the reason they charge so much is because G.W. sells inelastic products to committed consumers, this means because we like the game and its fluff/models well keep paying higher and higher prices because we can go without other things like new washing machines.

However having the highest profit margin does not nessesarly mean they are getting the highest profits overall. Lowering there mark-up slightly could correspond to a much higher increases in sales volume and therefore profits as people would do more impulse buying as well as adding that unit you like but couldn't afford before. In my oppion this would help them bring new gamers into the fold and help to retain them but hey im no CEO

I think not having feedback on the game design process is VERY dumb i mean games publishers let people play betas as it helps to hype as well as refine the finished product.

glowgos wrote:

They'll squeeze as much $ out of their products aslong as the customers allow them too

Someone doesn't know that much about business...
O.K. the reason they charge so much is because G.W. sells inelastic products to committed consumers, this means because we like the game and its fluff/models well keep paying higher and higher prices because we can go without other things like new washing machines.

However having the highest profit margin does not nessesarly mean they are getting the highest profits the could if they dropped there mark-up slightly this could correspond to a much higher increases in sales volume and therefore profits. In my oppion this would help them bring new gamers into the fold and help to retain them but hey im no CEO

You do know the sentence you quoted pretty much sums up what you said right?

As well as shows why people are mad at GW 's buisness practices.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Do they still consider the internet to be a fad?

It is a fad, nobody goes on the internet anymore.

George Spiggott wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Do they still consider the internet to be a fad?

It is a fad, nobody goes on the internet anymore.

I know I don't, I mean once they closed the GW forums what's the point?

I just wait for WD to arrive to tell me what's coming out this month.

I don't hate GW, I am sad because of the way they behave.

I am disappointed that they use their power and wealth not to make the best possible rules and figures, but instead to try to dominate the entire wargame industry to the point that they pretend no-one else exists.

At the same time they palm off badly thought out and supported rules and justify it by denying any validity of competitive or tournament playing.

Any company's moral compass should be to "Be the best that you can be" not to just knock off some crap and say it's good enough for jazz. Obviously, elements of cost-benefit and value have to come into it when you want to make a profit, but it wouldn't cost GW hardly anything to employ a technical writer and editor to help make their rules make sense.

There is a definite element of hypocrisy.

because they they have brain washed me into thinking $100 is a reasonable price to pay for a plastic tank (baneblade). i have 3 now....

My only beef is with certain armies that have been pummelled into a dull grey mass (e.g. CSM and Spess Mehrens), and the ludicrous prices over here. Trust me, compared to us, you Americans and Brits have it easy.

Thankfully, there are cheap ways around this.

And garret: that thing about GW prices is the best line I have EVER heard on this forum.

According to your flag, you're in America.

Do you want it changed? I'm assuming you are in New Zealand.

For crying out loud, if you can't afford the game (and if you can't afford 1 army and the rulebooks, then you are one indigent SOB) and don't like the rules, don't play it.

But if you just want to cry about it like a little sissy then do it in private.

The hobby is a luxury, you decide if it is worth the money or not. No one forces you to buy the stuff.

So stop crying about it. You want the stuff, then be prepared to pony up the dough to stay involved.

Don't like it? Then sell your gak on Ebay and move on.

End. Of. Story.

I havent been in the hobby long enough to really have qualms with GW outside of the price of their products. But even with cheaper alternatives (mainly WarStore) its still expensive, so it seems to just be a fact of the hobby to be spending some major cash to stay involved.

Doesnt mean I'm happy with it, but it just seems that this is how it will always be

cheese can you please at least get my permission befor you put a quote from me on your sig

Lock the thread now? Anyone?

Reecius wrote:For crying out loud, if you can't afford the game (and if you can't afford 1 army and the rulebooks, then you are one indigent SOB) and don't like the rules, don't play it.

But if you just want to cry about it like a little sissy then do it in private.

The hobby is a luxury, you decide if it is worth the money or not. No one forces you to buy the stuff.

So stop crying about it. You want the stuff, then be prepared to pony up the dough to stay involved.

Don't like it? Then sell your gak on Ebay and move on.

End. Of. Story.

Well, no, it's not entirely the end of the story. I mean, we could certainly all be uncomplaining manly men I suppose, with our mighty and hairy chests, but that doesn't mean that Games Workshop is in the right for cranking up prices for less material. Most of us have already, quite subtly, hinted we aren't going to pay them more for less so I suppose we have decided it's not worth the money they ask.

And yet the money is, while a big part, only part of the equation. I'm curious...how, exactly, do you defend the lack of support? That Games Workshop won't update a Codex for years and years, while updating another two or three times. That Games Workshop have made it very clear they don't especially care about customers such as you and I. Do you truly believe a company can care only about profit and not where the money comes from? Do you really think it would bite into there profit margins hugely to update the FAQ's quickly or to do more thorough play testing?

I don't hate GW, I just like them a lot less than I used to.

Really it's all about disappointment. I grew up playing GW games, and can actually remember being excited over a new White Dwarf or codex coming out, new models etc. That hasn't happened in a long time- for me 3rd edition Eldar was the start. So I think a lot of us have put our lives in to a hobby that isn't really a hobby anymore, and the GW we remember 8-9 years ago isn't the GW of today.

Of course I have met some people who have told me all sorts of GW horror stories that when questioned admitted they had never played a GW game. GW's reputation is so low, that it really is a byword. Frankly the reputation is mostly (but not wholly) deserved.

Neconilis wrote:Can do man, the day I consider anything from GW cheap is the day I can afford to burn money in a barrel to heat my house, so if you want some it's yours =)

Gah, considering how much it costs to heat a house nowadays, I think I am already doing that.

H.B.M.C. wrote:I doubt it. And I don't mind either. I'm just supporting my FLGS... which happens to be on the other side of the planet to me, but making it not-so-local, but still.

The power of the internet at work. I have some stores "local" to me but they are are at the extremes of the city/county, far easier to get stuff on the net, sadly.

Reecius wrote:For crying out loud, if you can't afford the game (and if you can't afford 1 army and the rulebooks, then you are one indigent SOB) and don't like the rules, don't play it.

But if you just want to cry about it like a little sissy then do it in private.

The hobby is a luxury, you decide if it is worth the money or not. No one forces you to buy the stuff.

So stop crying about it. You want the stuff, then be prepared to pony up the dough to stay involved.

Don't like it? Then sell your gak on Ebay and move on.

End. Of. Story.

Thats not how capitalism works there Reecius, as the purchasing customer we have every right in the world to complain. Especially when we buy a product that is clearly sub par in production value like many of the recent codexs. If we did not care about the game we would not bother. I don't whine about Vor the malestrom, because I dont care, nor does anyone else, they are out of business. I complain about 40k because with not much effort it could be dramatically improved as a product.

There is no excuse for poor rules writing in a table top hobby, no excuse for deliberatly ignoring and disrespecting a signifigant portion of your customer base, no excuse for blatant price gouging.

We are still here because we love the fluff and love the models, GW does that better than anyone. If they were half as good at writing rules and keeping fair business practices then they would have a much happier long term customer base.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:Lock the thread now? Anyone?

You have to hit the Alert a Moderator button (Exclamation point) on the specific post
that you find objectionable.

The thread doe not need to be closed. The title though does. it shouldnt be hate as i dont believe anyone does hate GW. I believe the title should be Why do people feel disappointed with GW and any posts that border the "hate" factor can be or shoudl be removed. But im no mod and this is only a thought

garret wrote:WHY DO THEY?
i mean if you hate them dont play the game.
if you hate the rules dont play it
if you hate the price build your own
i mean you wouldnt torch a suv for the enviroment the go to a hummer dealership?
i like gw i think there prices are fair and i like the rules

This is the reason why children should be seen and not heard.

WHERE, did you come up with this epic thought process?

Naw, I think we'll let this thread air out for a while. Keep it polite (click the link in my sig for Rule #1), but I think it's cathartic to yell about this for a little while.

I'm a slow painter, and don't play with unpainted models, so I can be awfully smug about GW's prices.

Short sighted, thoughtless people hate GW. People who think are angry with our end of an abusive relationship.

Once upon a time, there were a bunch of gamers/modelers/painters/hobbyists like us. They really like playing role playing and wargames so they made a magazine about it. In that magazine, they wrote about all of their favorite games, and note that they we not employed by any games company. They we "3rd party" or un-affiliated, and they views were considered objective and un biased.

During this time of independant magazine publication (it was called White Dwarf) they started to write their own rules and make their own figures. At first, the rules were just published in the magazine. But as the popularity of the magazine and their own house written rules grew, they needed to start a company specifically to publish their own brand of games. Thus Games Workshop was created. Some of them sculpted general fantasy and sci-fi figures at the time, and they had their own company; Citadel Miniatures. Now GW had rules and games, but no figures of their own, so their buddies, Citadel made figures for them.

GW was still growing, and their staff we still just regular gamers, in touch with their audience/customer base, so their products sold and gained popularity. Unfortunately, something bad happened at the magazine. (I'm not sure what/who was involved) but White dwarf stopped writing objectively about other games in their magazine, and just started writing about they own games (GW) exclusivly. They also stopped taking advertisers' money, forcing them to pass on the printing costs to the consumer(ie; raising WD price).

This wasn't the worst thing to happen at WD, though it was the beginning of it's downturn in quality. The writing at WD was still good however, and the articles were well received by the consumers, and they still accepted customer feedback, and even showcased customer armies quite frequently. White dwarf was entirerly an advetisement for GW and Citadel Minitures, but it was good and work buying.

Games Workshops' success grew, and they were able to buy up/out citadel miniatures, thus incorporating model making and casting into their own business. This was a good time to be a Game's Workshop fan, and the games were improving as well as the quality of the models.

But then, many of the original group of gamers and magazine writes disapeared. They either quit, were fired, removed them selves from being in active decision makers (just stock holders), or sold out their share of the company. Also the company Was put up for public sale; the sold stock and became public traded. (I'm not sure how close in time these two things occured, but combined was the end of customer service/care/support). This was the beginning of the end. Customer support took a nosedive. The writing in WD became abysmal drivel. The buisness model changed from being "A company of gamers making games for other gamers" to "squeeze all the cash out now, be don't know when the gravy trail is going to end."

Originally GW was like a money trees in a nursery. It was given plenty of fertilizer, water and sunshine(love) to grow, and it did each year. But now it's like slash and burn farming; they cut down all the trees to grow some crops that will only last a few seasons. By ending customer support, care, and feedback, they've lost touch with their core audience; the oldtimers that supported them when they were a young an upcoming company. By only targeting teens, they are limiting their market. See, the thing is, the teenage years only last so long, all people grow up. Teens may have 100% disposable income, but that doesn't last long, once they get to college, it's done. And just how big is a teen's budget? 100% of 3000 a year for 6 years compared to 3-5% of 50,000+ for life? what sense does that make?

Now GW is run like a cigarette company. Totally dependent on new product users, except where a cigarette company's product is what stops (kills) it's older users, its GW's business model which has specifically alienated them.

What I'm trying to say is there are 2 types of GW players; newbies that like GW cause they don't know any better, and us oldtimers that can't quit because we're addicts. Then you have the 2 types on non-GW players. Those that never started, and those that quit. It doesn't really matter why they quit, it's still revenue lost to GW.

Right now GW is so focused on getting people started, they have forgot that they need to get people not to quit. Bad business sense. It costs 9 time more to make a new customer than to keep an existing one.

Please don't close this thread, I enjoy seeing all the Smarty McKnowitalls trotting out their best "Oh you're just stupid children either buy from GW or don't" rants.

if your so pissed off about there price
do what I do buy one box of what you like
and make copes of it you are stile paying for it

And those of us without the time/skill/budget to either make acceptable copies(probably highly illegal) or learn how to? GW, as a business, claims to provide a service and or product for a given rate. We have obviously seen disconcerting issues with both from them, without any admittance that this is the case. Business is not a one way street.

Death Gear wrote:If you're so pissed off about their prices,
do what I do: buy one box of what you like
and make copes of it. You are still paying for it.

Edited for spelling & grammar. Just because.

It's almost as if he wrote that with the direct purpose of trolling warpcrafter.

sorry, my grammar it not that good