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I'm starting an IG army and I am wondering what is the best artilary and why?

It depends what you want to do the artillery

If you want to kill tanks or heavy infantry take the medusa

If you want to kill infantry in cover, take the colossus

If you want to kill light infantry for cheap, or make your other artillery more accurate for cheap, take the griffon.

By Artillery...

do you mean heavy weapons teams? like lascannon, heavy bolter, autocannon, mortar, or missile launcher?

or

do you mean Ordnance battery? like a Basilisk or Medusa?

Ordance batteries and I want the best overall to go with mechvets w/ meltaguna.

I like the vanilla Basilisk myself.

Three griffons.

You dont need the medusa for obvious reaons - Lascannons will suffice for your long-ranged anti-tank & the collouses really only covers a very small niche of MEQ's in cover.. against everything worse, hull heavy flamers on chimera's will sort out & the bassilisk is too expensive for what it does. Cheap str 6 pie. Wounds T4 on 2+'s and is relatively accurate.

The best Ordnance Battery? 3 Medusas. No minimum range, and 36" S10 Ordnance is sickening. Deathstrikes are fun too.

I like Griffons and Medusas.

Medusas, obviously, for their increidble tank-busting, and Griffons for their super-accuracy, even with no LOS, and their inexpensiveness.

OK so would 1 Medusa and 2 Griffons be a good choice?

In one squadron? That's a horrible choice because the Medusa is not a barrage weapon.

If you want cheap anti-infantry fire, 3 Griffons can't be beat. 225 points, reroll scatters, wound almost everything on a 2+.

If you want effective anti-tank, the Medusa with bunker busters is king. S10/AP1 with 2d6 penetration means you're killing Land Raiders from 48", and even on partial hits, S5+2d6 is proficient at killing any light transport. It's no slouch versus infantry, either. I once shot 3 at a Hammerhead, scattered horribly, and ended up destroying 2 Devilfish and killing 8 fire warriors.

The single best all-rounder, however, is the Manticore. Multiple warheads per shot, is not open-topped, and with its ability to ignore cover it's effective against vehicles as S10 ordnance and absolutely lethal to any non-MEQ, cover or no. Even Plague Marines are denied FNP by the Manticore.

They would be split.

im a fan of the duce with breacher shells if i was to run anything.

Remember, Medusas are only good antitank if the center whole is over the vehicle. Otherwise, it's strength 5 + 2D6 if you are using Bastion Breacher Shells (Averaging 5 + 7 = 12). Plus bastion breacher shells use the Small Blast. Without special shells, you get the Large Blast, but only regular Ordinance Penetration rules. A scatter dice is basically a BS 2 roll: only a 2 in 6 chance of landing a direct hit. Your average scatter roll on 2D6 is 7, so minus BS 3 means an average 4" scatter (The Devil Dog has the same problem). That'll probably land you off target. Against regular infantry, you can't fire indirect, so forget about negating cover saves. You'd have to use your AV 12-10-10 open-topped tank like a Leman Russ Demolisher to effectively pulp infantry (Meaning you drive around looking for a good angle). Oh, and since the Medusa is direct fire, you can't use the Griffon's special rule to reposition via re-roll the Medusa's blast (You can do this with barrage tanks such as the Basilisk if the Griffon is the closet to the target {The Griffon's shell is a "ranging shot" sort of}). Definitely don't group Griffons and Medusas together if you plan to hunt tanks with the latter.
In the Medusa's defense, a strength 10 AP 2/1 blast spreads fear. No one wants to be caught under it (Unless in great cover). I'm not gonna knock the range, since you can position the tank to cover objectives, and most armies will try to close on Guard to assault.
As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the Medusa, but it has it's uses, and it has the potential to be dangerously effective when it works.

Griffons are still very cost-effective and very devastating against hordes. Wounding MEQs on a 2+ makes them take a lot of saves, some of which they're bound to fail. The scatter re-roll is great too. Remember to cover their 12" absolute dead zone with infantry, as Griffons cannot fire directly.

The Colossus is exceptional at killing 3+ or worse infantry outside of their 24" absolute dead zone. Screen it well. This tank you can group with Griffons. Remember to position the unit so the Griffon will the closest tank to most targets.

I still love the Basilisk. It's simple a killing machine against 3+ or worse infantry. You just need to watch for area terrain. Unfortunately, it's tank hunting capabilities are about the same as that of the Medusa. However, it not only fires indirect to pulp infantry behind walls, but you are allowed to fire directly within its minimum range, as per normal rules, unlike the previous two mentioned, the Griffon and Colossus. This is an important fallback, especially against fast moving, mechanized armies. As with the Colossus, a Basilisk shooting indirect (A small area in this case: between 36" and 48" inches away) can partially, potentially take advantage of the Griffon's special rule.

That's my take on Ordinance Batteries. It really comes down to personal preference, since each vehicle has its own unique strengths and weaknesses.

Well my "theory" army list contains this:
x2 CCS w/ x4 meltaguns, master of the fleet, chimera w/HF

Troops
x3 Vet Squads w/ x3 meltaguns, chimera w/HF

Elites
PBS x7 w/ Chimera w/HB

Fast Attack
Vendetta
Vendetta

Heavy Support
Medusa w/ B-BS
x2 Griffons

Do the batteries fit well?

Bob the Hobo wrote:Remember, Medusas are only good antitank if the center whole is over the vehicle. Otherwise, it's strength 5 + 2D6 if you are using Bastion Breacher Shells (Averaging 5 + 7 = 12). Plus bastion breacher shells use the Small Blast. Without special shells, you get the Large Blast, but only regular Ordinance Penetration rules. A scatter dice is basically a BS 2 roll: only a 2 in 6 chance of landing a direct hit. Your average scatter roll on 2D6 is 7, so minus BS 3 means an average 4" scatter (The Devil Dog has the same problem). That'll probably land you off target. Against regular infantry, you can't fire indirect, so forget about negating cover saves. You'd have to use your AV 12-10-10 open-topped tank like a Leman Russ Demolisher to effectively pulp infantry (Meaning you drive around looking for a good angle). Oh, and since the Medusa is direct fire, you can't use the Griffon's special rule to reposition via re-roll the Medusa's blast (You can do this with barrage tanks such as the Basilisk if the Griffon is the closet to the target {The Griffon's shell is a "ranging shot" sort of}). Definitely don't group Griffons and Medusas together if you plan to hunt tanks with the latter.
In the Medusa's defense, a strength 10 AP 2/1 blast spreads fear. No one wants to be caught under it (Unless in great cover). I'm not gonna knock the range, since you can position the tank to cover objectives, and most armies will try to close on Guard to assault.
As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of the Medusa, but it has it's uses, and it has the potential to be dangerously effective when it works.

When you run the full spread, a Medusa firing at something the size of a rhino lands the center hole on the hull slightly more than 50% of the time.

And even partials will crush rhinos/speeders. For stopping transports at range, it doesn't get much better than the Deuce.

@Sourclams

I have been seriously considering throwing a Medusa into my ard boyz list in place of Pask. Pask has a very bad habit of not killing his target due to the lack of AP1. He can be devastating but he can also fail utterly. A pair of Medusas is only a few more points than a Pasquisher with Plasma.

What do you think? And would the Camo Nets be worth it. 60 points is a lot but an open topped AV 12/10/10 vehicle is scary vulnerable.

The Medusa is more versatile, and more deadly, but much less survivable. In theory anyway.

I don't have a copy of the IG codex, but is the Hydra Flak a choice. As I recall it was a Heavy 4 Autocannon?

A squad of them seemed awfully tough to me. But I could see why the Medusa would be a top choice.

Manticores

Can you get Manticores and medusas in squadrons?

MANTICOREZZZ. Yeah, my top two are that and the Deuce. Bastion breach for dropping transports/Landraiders (its hard to scatter off that thing) and Manticore for carpetting infantry.

Hollismason wrote:Can you get Manticores and medusas in squadrons?

Medusa, yes.

Manticore, no.

Bob the Hobo wrote:Remember, Medusas are only good antitank if the center whole is over the vehicle.

Which is why you take 3, and don't rely on them to kill tanks. Being able to place the other templates sort of negates the need to be deadly accurate, and as with all things Guard redundancy is the key. Medusa scattered 12" into a big tree? No problem, here's 9 twin-linked lascannons and 12 Meltaguns for you to eat instead.

Otherwise, it's strength 5 + 2D6 if you are using Bastion Breacher Shells (Averaging 5 + 7 = 12). Plus bastion breacher shells use the Small Blast. Without special shells, you get the Large Blast, but only regular Ordinance Penetration rules.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I'd kill for some 36" S10 Ordnance for my Grey Knights or Smurfs; and I'd kill more for the ability to take a million Meltaguns as backup.

A scatter dice is basically a BS 2 roll: only a 2 in 6 chance of landing a direct hit.

It would be, if all vehicle hulls were the same size as the central hole of the template. Against a Land Raider, place the hole over the middle of the vehicle and you've got 2" leeway to either side, 3" up or down, and 3.5" diagonal before the hole falls off the end. I like those odds, to be frank. Especially if there's some redundancy in the AT. Which, with the Guard, there should always be.

(The Devil Dog has the same problem)

The Devil Dog's main problem is that people think a 4+ cover save will save it. If I see one of those things coming at me it's the first thing I'm going to shoot or charge, because I want a Melta pie-plate landing on my vehicles like I want a hole in the head. Treat it like a normal Chimera and it'll give you turn after turn of melty goodness.

On a side note, Devil Dogs are win. Seriously. Forget your Valks and Vendettas, Devil Dogs are the wave of the future.

I believe that the 3 hydra battery is the strongest choice. Poor eldar, valks and transpors! not to mention the cleanup crew factor.

Kungfuhustler wrote:I believe that the 3 hydra battery is the strongest choice. Poor eldar, valks and transpors! not to mention the cleanup crew factor.

Yeah, because Land Raiders and Russes everywhere tremble at the mere mention of a twin-linked Autocannon.

You do realise that, assuming it hits (twin-linked BS3 is still BS3), your Hydra still needs a 5+ to Glance a Wave Serpent, right? :-o

Twin-Linked BS3 is slightly better than BS4, which is not BS3. Anyway, with 9 hits from a battery that ignore cover, you should get a couple pens.

DarkHound wrote:Twin-Linked BS3 is slightly better than BS4, which is not BS3. Anyway, with 9 hits from a battery that ignore cover, you should get a couple pens.

It's that sort of uncertainty that makes the Autocannon Chimeras such a pishy deal; for 255pts and a Heavy Support slot I want more than 12 shots with rerollable 50% chance to hit and a 75% chance not to do any damage at all against AV12. They don't ignore cover either; they only ignore the Turbo Boosters/ Flat-Out cover save. If they ignored cover they might be worth taking, but they don't, so they're not.

bigtmac68 wrote:@Sourclams

I have been seriously considering throwing a Medusa into my ard boyz list in place of Pask. Pask has a very bad habit of not killing his target due to the lack of AP1. He can be devastating but he can also fail utterly. A pair of Medusas is only a few more points than a Pasquisher with Plasma.

What do you think? And would the Camo Nets be worth it. 60 points is a lot but an open topped AV 12/10/10 vehicle is scary vulnerable.

The Medusa is more versatile, and more deadly, but much less survivable. In theory anyway.

I personally like the Medusa. I would choose them over Pask. Rather than camo-nets, I'd probably just find the points for another Medusa, or another Chimera for them to hide behind. Chimeras in front of Medusas = 3+ cover save anyways because there's no turret on a Medusa and the hull is 100% obscured.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frank Fugger wrote:

Kungfuhustler wrote:I believe that the 3 hydra battery is the strongest choice. Poor eldar, valks and transpors! not to mention the cleanup crew factor.

Yeah, because Land Raiders and Russes everywhere tremble at the mere mention of a twin-linked Autocannon.

You do realise that, assuming it hits (twin-linked BS3 is still BS3), your Hydra still needs a 5+ to Glance a Wave Serpent, right? :-o

With its ability to remove SMF, the Hydra is the single best long range AV12 skimmer killer out there.

4 twin linked BS3 autocannons hit 3 times. That should give you at least one glance, with good odds for a pen. At 75 points, you don't get much better return for the point cost.

sourclams wrote:With its ability to remove SMF, the Hydra is the single best long range AV12 skimmer killer out there.

That's a lofty claim to make of a BS3 vehicle with two twin-linked Autocannons on it, and considering the main reason you're putting forward for such thinking is that it negates a rule you'll be dealing with, at most, once or twice a game it doesn't stand up. The Hydra is an Apocalypse thing that just smells of sweaty balls in normal games. Why do I need a 72" weapon that ignores SMF and BMF (and does sod all else) on a 6x4 table?

4 twin linked BS3 autocannons hit 3 times. That should give you at least one glance, with good odds for a pen.

If this is true then why not just take 3 Autocannon HWTs in a Squad (75pts total, 3 Autocannons) and leave the Heavy slots for gak that's actually useful? S9 Ordnance, Demolishers, fookin' Battlecannons even; they'll all handle heavy vehicles, light vehicles and infantry. They give you versatility, so when some Raider-spamming jackarse turns up you can give him a proper game. The Hydra gives you two twin-linked Autocannons and another useless hull to babysit.

At 75 points, you don't get much better return for the point cost.

My bad; 75pts, so 225pts for your battery, not 255. I'm still not seeing how that's worth wasting a HS slot or 225pts on though.

it's 4 TL autocannons per hydra, not 2. 12 TL s7 shots will kill av11 all day long and statistically takes care of av12 quite nicely... and firing on a squad of tough baddies (avging 9 hits & 8 wounds i think) is not in any way shabby. I am not a big fan of IG heavy support choices anymore, the hydra is slowly but surely becoming the only one that I take. 99.9% of IG heavy choices can have their role (killing stuff) stolen by cheaper and longer lived units. Try asking a valk spammer or eldar player what he is afraid of sometime? for 225 points you instill well-earned fear in those players and the hydra battery has earned it's place in my all comers lists as a result. can you say that any other "artillery" choice has earned manditory status for all comers games? I don't thik so.

Frank Fugger wrote:

sourclams wrote:With its ability to remove SMF, the Hydra is the single best long range AV12 skimmer killer out there.

That's a lofty claim to make of a BS3 vehicle with two twin-linked Autocannons on it, and considering the main reason you're putting forward for such thinking is that it negates a rule you'll be dealing with, at most, once or twice a game it doesn't stand up. The Hydra is an Apocalypse thing that just smells of sweaty balls in normal games. Why do I need a 72" weapon that ignores SMF and BMF (and does sod all else) on a 6x4 table?

Find a better choice for killing AV12 with a 4+ cover save at ranges of 20+ inches. There aren't any, because nothing else can ignore that cover save.

A single Hydra is 75 points and will average 1 glance/pen per turn of shooting.

The next best thing is the Vendetta, which will do better against non-SMF targets, but is only about 1/2 as effective against SMF.

You may think the Hydra smells of sweaty balls, but against a fast Eldar army with Fire Dragons in Serpents, you will typically have exactly 1 turn of shooting before your 500 point Russ squadron evaporates. The most cost-effective choice is the Hydra. Everything else gets burned by the 4+ cover save.