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Hey folks! I've been playing mechanized orks for quite some time now. I'm actually getting ready to retire the orks and move to Dark Eldar. I've never posted an army list for critique, but 4/5 of all my posting has been in the army list section, and I kind of suffer from "big fish in a little pond" problems...I'd love to go to a GT and see how I compare there, but that requires something in traveling distance.

In the meantime, I'm posting the list I run (1850) and the tactics I use with it in the hopes that you might tell me how you would play against it and defeat it. I stick to tournament play for the most part, so I'm looking for take-all-comers lists, not something built specifically to deal with me. My list changes a bit for point values (1750 vs 1850 vs 1500 etc) but the core of it remains the same.

My list:

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka
HQ: Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field

Troop 1: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw (18 - they're in a battlewagon with Ghazghkull)
Troop 2: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw
Troop 3: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw
Troop 4: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw
Troop 5: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw

Elite 1: Snikrot, Kommandos, 2 burnas
Elite 2: Burna Boyz

Fast Attack 1: Deffkopta with TL Rokkits

Heavy Support 1: Battlewagon (reinforced Ram or Deffrolla depending on where I'm playing and their house rules about deffrollas vs vehicles)
Heavy Support 2: Battlewagon (both battlewagons have a big shoota)

All trukks have reinforced rams to reroll the possibility of a for difficult terrain and boarding planks to provide mobile anti-tank (Nob getting 4x powerklaw attacks without disembarking)

Tactics: I keep my battlewagons out front to screen trukks in the rear. Burna boyz and KFF travel in one battlewagon, Ghazghkull and 18 boyz travel in another. I typically look for flanking opportunities and the ability to deny a portion of my enemy's firepower by deploying and moving up a flank while counting on my KFF to keep my vehicles rolling. In combat I rely on Ghazghkull and/or my burna boys to deal with nasty things that could mince my boys. Against heavily mechanized lists I don't disembark and use the boarding planks to cause damage.

All in all, you could sum up my army as a wrecking ball - with a 27-29" turn2 assault range on the Waaaugh! I'm capable of determining where the fight will happen, with who, and who I want involved in the charge. In most games, the turn I charge (and Waaaugh!) is the turn that decides the game. Snikrot finds a place to be useful, while the rest of my army smacks squarely into a piece of my enemy. I don't really have any shooting, just a massive ball of assault. I rely on targeting a piece of my enemy and throwing my entire army against it and killing it, so that the following turn, I've seriously wrecked a portion of my enemy.

How would you destroy me?

It's a tough list. My all-comers list would have a hard time cracking your list open. I use

2x tyrants with TL devourers with full bodyguard
1 brood of 8 warriors with TL devourers
1 brood of 8 warriors with deathspitters

2x sniperfexes with
2x zoanthropes

As many gaunts as I can get my hands on.

My only hope would be to try and slow you down as much as possible with my anti tank (even devourers work on trukks), then block off assaults with the gaunts to get another round of firing in before assaulting in with my heavies. So in conclusion I have an extremely unreliable way to take you out since it relies on screening the big boys at the back from your cc stuff at the front. I wouldn't be too worried about snikrot in this list...my tyrants and warriors could probably handle him, even if he took out a fex in the process.

At 1850, I run:
DP, WT, Wings
Termicide
Termicide
Termicide
10 CSM, 2 Melta, AC, PF, Rhino
10 CSM, 2 Flamer, AC, PF, Combi, Rhino
8 Zerk, AC, PF
8 Zerk, AC, PF
Land Raider, Extra Armor
Land Raider, Extra Armor

Go 1st if possible, but it's not the end of the world if I don't. I usually keep my stuff close together anyway, so no chance for you to isolate part of my army.

If you go 1st: Deploy so that you have a decent slog to get to me. Hide Rhinos/DP from scouting Koptas. DP attacks Koptas if close enough. Move 12" in a block to keep 2nd turn Waagh PKs off of me. You charge my transports and maybe get Snikky turn 2. Snikky can't do anything to full mech out of assault. Hit a termicide or 2 turn 2, hopefully pop the KFF wagon. Lascannons into trukks. Zerks into flamers, if they're out of transports. Melta CSM to try to pop Ghazzie's BW if he plank attacked. Flamer CSM to Snikrot. 2nd Zerks into Ghazzy's squad if out, DP (if alive) in support. Drop more termicide, kill more trukks. Basically, make you waste the charge on transports and counter.

If I go 1st: Don't move T1, pour Las into BWs or any trukk visible. Drop Termicide on BWs, hoping for an Immob+ (and I have +2 with Melta+Open topped), if they go down, Las into trukks. Then I pick the charges.

EDIT- BTW, loving the location change

And onto tactics...

I would be castled up. In a 2k point game I would have something like 72 gaunts ( brood of 12 with WoN) sitting in a huge, thick semi circle covering my MC's and warriors. The gaunts are also in medium sized squads (about 12-16 each)

Everything would move forward extremely slowly. VC's would be taking pot shots at battlewagons and with some luck I might take out 1. Devourers focus on stopping the trukks until they disgorge their contents into my gaunt wall. You should wipe the gaunts then I get a lot of shots at your stuff before plunging into assault with tyrants, deathspitter warriors, and would use remaining gaunts to tie up any squad that's just too ugy to face just yet.

Sexy stuff here dash. My mechdar would have trouble fondling this list. I think the one big weakness is a lack of true anti tank at range. I would exploit that weakness by running this army list, and out playing you.

HQ: Ghazghkull Thraka
HQ: Big Mek with a Kustom Force Field

Troop 1: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw (18 - they're in a battlewagon with Ghazghkull)
Troop 2: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw
Troop 3: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw
Troop 4: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw
Troop 5: Trukk Boyz, Nob + Powerklaw

Elite 1: Snikrot, Kommandos, 2 burnas
Elite 2: Burna Boyz

Fast Attack 1: Deffkopta with TL Rokkits

Heavy Support 1: Battlewagon (reinforced Ram or Deffrolla depending on where I'm playing and their house rules about deffrollas vs vehicles)
Heavy Support 2: Battlewagon (both battlewagons have a big shoota)

And so it becomes a netlist....

I don't think that anyone here expected anything less then a killer list from you, but this is really tough. Without completely tailoring an army to expoite yours, I'd say that your bigest problem would be an ultra mobile force with lots of anti tank, or an absolutly hoard army. My reasoning is that (for the ultra mobile force with lots of anti tank) they could destroy your transports then stay out of reach. And for the hoard, your trying to get into combat, so are they, since you are faster you will hit first, but then be dragged down through sheer volume. They would both need to be well played, but I think that that could bring your list down. Mabye.

despoiler52 wrote:I don't think that anyone here expected anything less then a killer list from you, but this is really tough. Without completely tailoring an army to expoite yours, I'd say that your bigest problem would be an ultra mobile force with lots of anti tank, or an absolutly hoard army. My reasoning is that (for the ultra mobile force with lots of anti tank) they could destroy your transports then stay out of reach. And for the hoard, your trying to get into combat, so are they, since you are faster you will hit first, but then be dragged down through sheer volume. They would both need to be well played, but I think that that could bring your list down. Mabye.

Im going to write up a serious comparison with the mechdar I ran last week. I think them (fast armies) or huge horde would be the biggest issues. Or, surprised nobody said this, LEAFBLOWER going first.

I'm sorry, but I must show my ignorance in saying that I have no idea what "LEAFBLOWER" is.

The IG list darkwynn won with at 'ardboyz.

Basically gobs and gobs of guns, hope to go first, and nuke the enemy into oblivion while in their deployment zone.

I like the idea, but it would be depressing if they ever got into CC.

It wasn't as one dimensional as Eidolon makes it out to be, but IMO he did get somewhat lucky at the finals (1st all three games, etc.) and that combined with skill practically wafted him through

Guard don't curl up and die these days if you get within 12", BTW.

No they don't curl up, they are cut in half.

The issue is you cant go from unit to unit with sweeping advance anymore. So you charge unit A, slaughter it, and get gunned down by units B and C

Yep, that and you open a Chimera. So? The unit shoots you again. No good guard player's ever going to voluntarily disembark against Orks.

Luckily you can do one of two things, the first is quite simple, have more then one unit, so attack many units at once, lets see B shoot at A's killers when they are also in CC. The second is that you attack with enogh units to kill the enemy in two phases, your turn goes by, then you finish them off in the enemies CC phase, then it's your turn again and you can continue your reign of terror.

How would I beat it?

DEMOLISHER CANNON. HURRR!

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:How would I beat it?

DEMOLISHER CANNON. HURRR!

YOU ARE N00B 250 GUARDSMEN AND 3 DEATHSTRIKES IS THE ONLY THING THAT COULD STOP THIS ARMY

HEADQUARTERS

Eldrad-210

Yriel-155

8 warlocks-237
2 embolden. 1 enhance, 4 singing spears

Wave serpent-110
Twin linked shuriken cannons, spirit stones.

ELITES

6 dire dragons-113
Exarch with crack shot,

Wave serpent-110
Twin linked shuriken cannons, spirit stones.


TROOPS

5 dire avengers-60

Wave serpent-145
Twin linked bright lances, spirit stones.

5 dire avengers-60

Wave serpent-145
Twin linked bright lances, spirit stones

5 dire avengers-60

Wave serpent-145
Twin linked bright lances, spirit stones

HEAVY SUPPORT

2 war walkers-120
All with scatlasers

3 war walkers-180
All with scatlasers

There is my list. I think it could do pretty well. At least put up a fighting chance. Im not gonna write a play by play of how I think it would go, as thats stupid and not feasible. So ill say what I think my list has on yours, and what I would need to struggle against.

Advantages.
Speed. I can move faster then you, along with the ability to reserve everything as a valid tactic.

Toughness. My basic troops are generally weaker, though the council will be very hard to deal with. My tanks though are much tougher and I have little to nothing to fear from range. While you have the KFF I could still rely on popping armor, you couldnt. This means I will generally be dictating where the battle is fought.

Death star unit-I have a big nasty unit that will kill most anything it gets its hands on. And your army is one of the worst for stopping it reaching your lines. No psychic defense and no ranged anti tank would mean this unit goes where it pleases.

More deployment options-Reserving everything being a big asset that I have. Along with multiple units that can outflank.

Better ranged-This is already explained.

Disadvantages
Weaker troops and less troops-5 avengers wont beat 10 boyz.

KFF-this is probably the single best item in the game. I have to forgo shooting to get 4+, you just get it.

Ghazghkull-This guy is a pain in the dick to fight against. Thats pretty simple. 6" waagh out of open topped transports, 2+ invuln and a slowed number of attacks means he will always be a threat.

I have to get out of my tanks and deal with stuff one way or the other. I think the number of things orks can put on the table would make this a very tough game one way or the other. There is no easy way to think my way through this game.

Eidolon wrote:The issue is you cant go from unit to unit with sweeping advance anymore. So you charge unit A, slaughter it, and get gunned down by units B and C

The best thing you can do is slaughter the unit on the charge and then consolidate into cover. Thats the best thing you can do to prevent this. Since you have so many units you might could simple try to tie up every squad that would shoot you in and ideal world.

I would like to play that list a lot as I have killed a lot of ork mech list with my Tau, but none that are all trucks and battlewagons ans most people dont have that many trucks and battle wagons. My strategy to be is to keep the Drones/piranhas and other vehicles in between me and the orks. With some good deployment and first turn I think I might get ya, but a lot of players say if they get turn preference they would win oh well. My list would be

Shas'el with missle pod and AFP
9 suits fire knives
8 pathfinders with devilfish, flechette disharger
6 and 6 fire warriors and a devilfish Flechette discharger
3 piranhas with flechette disharger
3 RailHeads with flechette and SMS.

I played a SM mech list that you might have trouble with. I beat him but if we would have gone a few more turns i dont think I would have won. Very good experience player. Sm is not my army So name and war gear might be different. Ill try to piece together list

2 Vindicators with battle cannons
landraider lass cannons and heavybolters with multi melta on top
4terminators and librarian inside TH,SS
think it was 3 rhinos with 1 vanguard with storm shields and 2 combat squad maybe assault.
3 dreadnoughts with assault cannons and CC
landspeeder with the missle launchers on it.

Those 2 battle cannons did a number on me even though i fineally got them, and all the auto cannons were rough on my units and light vehicles.

I actually believe that there isn't an all comers list out there, but that there are just really good players that make efficient armys that know how to increase a armys str to max and decrease its weekness as much as possible, and that is what makes it All comers and not just the list itself.

Still Dash I think you have a great list and anyone would be hard pressed to take it.

Pretty cool list dash, its true that there are lists that can outrun you and lists that can out shoot you, but a list that can outrun you while out-shooting you is nonexistent. Mech orks are hard to beat. I could try and spam 4 battlewagons, but at that point you have more troops than me (and boarding planks attack rear armor, so when you do hit me with a PK it's pretty much going to at the least glance)

starbomber109 wrote:but a list that can outrun you while out-shooting you is nonexistent.

I think I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Mechdar and Dark Eldar scream to me as armies that can keep their distance and outshoot you at the same time. Whether that's enough for them to win the game is another story.

Gornall wrote:

starbomber109 wrote:but a list that can outrun you while out-shooting you is nonexistent.

I think I have to respectfully disagree with this statement. Mechdar and Dark Eldar scream to me as armies that can keep their distance and outshoot you at the same time. Whether that's enough for them to win the game is another story.

I agree with the OP and you that the more you play the game the more dark eldar look sexy. Just for that whole fast opentopped vehicles that can get some nice wargear, and pack some nice troops to shoot.

What I would love is an opentopped transport for tau. Now that would rock.

Dark Eldar and IG empirically give me the most trouble - there are SO MANY dark lances in the DE army and so many vehicles....I only have so many boarding planks and powerklaws. In fact, the reason I've started Dark Eldar is because Ghazghkull and a squad of 10 diversified nobs assaulted an Archon with a squad of Incubi....and a few rounds later.....Ghazghkull was dead. =p Thus began, "Holy smokes, there's something more beastly than Ghazghkull in close combat?" I play Tau and Orks and play them at opposite ends of the spectrum - static gunline with 100% firepower and mechanized assault with 100% CC. I'm aiming for a mix with Dark Eldar.

For DE: In my games against DE (against some seriously skilled players) I've managed to barely squeak out a win every time thus far. I have no illusions about putting them down hard, its been horrifyingly brutal battles.

I've played Leafblower, and what I think is an even more vicious IG mechanized list involving 13 Chimeras or something, and ridiculous amounts of melta and flamers - these have also been horrifying battles; both times the games were objective based, and I won both games by the narrowest of margins - having one nob out of a troop's choice left alive and holding an objective in one game...and aided by much luck against the Leafblower setup.

My 4+ cover saves did well to protect me, and I rushed up one flank so that the tanks on the other side couldn't range me. He rolled a squadron up to get into range for next turn and 2/3 of the tanks immobilized themselves (IE, wrecked) due to difficult terrain rolls.

Most armies I play to table - horde orks and genestealers....I have burnas, and two squads of trukk boys piling into 30 orks on foot with furious charge is enough to win the fight. Dark Eldar and mechanized IG....I'm not comfortable at all against them, and have simply been fortunate in my games so far...I don't have a ready answer for how to beat them with my army regularly (aside from trying to deny fire due to range, flanking, and getting into CC as fast as possible).

In fact, in addition to "how would you beat me" I'd welcome thoughts on how my list could beat raider spam and mechanized IG spam.

Strong mechanized armies are your achilles heel, unfortunately. Guard you can potentially deal with (moar power klawz!) due to low armor in CC. They're trouble for you for a whole different reason though - you can't get to the squishy back armor if everything you've got dies before you get there. Even when you do... you pop a chimera. So what? The guys inside are still more than able to pound your face next shooting phase. Relying on CC to pop mechanized troops is shaky. It's why orks, demons, and ESPECIALLY the current tyranids don't do so well against armies with lots-o-tanks.

The average mechanized ork list relies on one, crushing CC round to determine the outcome of the game. Mechanized armies take a minimum of 2 rounds to put some serious hurting on. That really is a case of scissors vs rock, unfortunately.

Now, what about high armor targets? It doesn't matter how strong a player you are if even if you can manage to lean your whooooole army on one tank, it's not enough. If a player is smart enough to keep his land raiders moving 6" or more if they're close enough to feasibly be charged, there's nothing you can do about it but get lucky.

For example, your boss gets 7 (I think?) attacks on the charge. If he needs 6s to hit that's 1.17 hits, .39 penetrating hits. Meaningful damage to a land raider is on a 4+, so that's about a 19% chance of doing some lasting damage, with the best tank popping unit in your army.

Not what you'd call ideal.

It would take about 5x as many hits to reach a 100% chance, sooo you've got to figure out how to generate 35 power klaw swings. set up a gazghkull cloning facility? lol

Fortunately, "LR spam" armies are often weak enough in the rest of the list that you can put pressure on the squishy parts and try to win by objective grab or KP denial. Unfortunately, this brings us back to the whole "trukks are bad" thing - it's pretty hard to deny KPs when your KPs are 10 all around and open topped. My advice is to kill as much as you're able with your waaagh (might even charge gazghkull and his buddies into something and leave the rest of your army hiding, he'll struggle to clean up the toughest unit in your army) and then hide. Use battlewagons and terrain to keep your trukks out of sight.

On objective missions, you're at somewhat of a lesser disadvantage. Play to your advantages (speed) and try to bait him far enough away from the objectives with his armor that he's not able to tank shock you off at the bottom of 5 - and if you give him the chance, he will. Land raiders are biiiiiiig. More than big enough to push an infantry unit out of 3" even if they pass their morale check.

Yes, I know the above "strategies" are basically "hang on tight and hope for the best", but there's a reason why I said that mechanized lists were your achilles heel.

Keep in mind that the above advice vs land raiders applies in objective missions (but not necessarily KPs, if he's got just one you can just do your best to ignore it) because just one land raider pushing just one of your units off an objective is pretty big. It also wrecks anything in your army except a mobile BW if he plays it right - LR redeemer tank shocks a mob of manz. They fail their morale, great! If not, still great! They move aside and end up bunched up. This is known as "please flame me" formation. Vulkan and his librarian buddy pop out, a couple flamers and an avenger later and your dudes are toast, and because the marine player has a gigantic wall-o-tank between him and the rest of your army there aren't any seriously exposed targets for you to put pressure on.

It's nasty. It works. It's why I wouldn't ever play orks in the current ruleset.

Well, Dash, this does seem like a very solid list. The only thing I can say is that I'm glad to discover that I was already sortof building this list by accident. Once you get into scratchbuilding Ork vehicles, it's hard to stop, so suddenly I have like Five Trukks and three Battlewagons that will all be finished soon. If only I could focus on just one at a time...

Yea, some of dem ig arent that weak .... bad series of events saw bosses wagon blow up and pin them, and getting charged by straken + squad to my nob squad was pretty funny, he dealt like 8 wounds, 4 from straken, managed to kill 2 nobs, but then the boss and 3 pk nobs swung back and wiped the squad at Init 1 lol ... Tough before they go splat anyways lol.

Manticore+psyker battle squad is the worst combo for nobs. Pray he doesnt open that battle wagon, or that nob mob is gone.

great avatar eidolon .... LOL

It was pretty cool. My new one will unleash mountains of nerd rage upon dakka