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Nope, he isn't an Independant Character.

What???? how is he not an indepent character, I belive you, I'm just shocked. I thought he would have some kinda "I'm a god so %$#^ off" rule.

Orkish wrote:This list has ABSOLutely no solution to NightBringer. I don't think I have to elaborate on this, do I?

Every list has a solution to the Nightbringer... ignore him.

Sup phase out.

DarkHound wrote:

Orkish wrote:This list has ABSOLutely no solution to NightBringer. I don't think I have to elaborate on this, do I?

Yes, because Ghazzy with a 2+ invul and 7 S10 attacks isn't going to hurt the Nightbringer. While that is the only thing in the army that can fight him Dash's build means that it is the only thing that will fight him.

I believe the Nightbringer ignores all saves, even invulnerable ones.

His Nobz cant touch the Night Bringer because the boyz are base str3 - go look up NightBringer's abilities. Apart from his Ghaz who can detach and then charge the NightBringer, no one else in his army can go near the NightBringer. 1 - 1, Ghaz will on AVG dice rolls be beaten flat by the NightBringer.

For the naive ones who gave cute answers like "ignore the NightBringer", I bet you havent played or seen how the necrons will deploy.

On a positive note, I don't see Necron players very often in tournaments.

Orkish wrote:

For the naive ones who gave cute answers like "ignore the NightBringer", I bet you havent played or seen how the necrons will deploy.

Enlighten me.

"ignore him" isn't just me trying to be cute. It really is the best answer to dealing with him - kill everything else, he goes away.

If the Necron player doesnt deploy his warriors within 6 inches of his NightBringer, he is noob.

If you are trying to shoot his warriors to death and force a phase out with your orks, you are cute + noob.

Orkish wrote:If the Necron player doesnt deploy his warriors within 6 inches of his NightBringer, he is noob.

If you are trying to shoot his warriors to death and force a phase out with your orks, you are cute + noob.

Let's look at the rule you're talking about.

In the beginning of the enemy Assault phase, after moves have been made but before any blows are struck, the Nightbringer may harness its power to summon eheric winds which hurl its opponents away from it. Any enemy unit (not vehicles) with a model within 6" blah blah blah strength 4 2d6 pushback etc

Note how it defines who this power effects - ENEMY units within 6" of the nightbringer, and you use it after assault moves have been made. This means that in order to protect your units, you've got to have, oh, your entire army closer than 6" to the nightbringer in order to prevent your dudes from being charged.

So you bunch up your whole force and meanwhile the ork player is chilling in his vehicles, which you can't touch since your necrons. He realizes he can't assault you. However, your entire army is in one place. He has enough movement to tank shock you.

With every vehicle.

Going through every unit.

Of your not fearless army.

What's that, you can't pass 5-6 LD10 checks EVERY turn for EVERY unit in your army?

lol

Fetterkey wrote:I believe the Nightbringer ignores all saves, even invulnerable ones.

Oh blast, I forgot all about that rule. Stupid Warscythes. So, yes, infact this list has absolutely nothing that can beat the Nightbringer. I retract my statement.

While you can't ignore the Nightbringer, you can feed him and keep him content. I don't think Dash would have a problem against Necrons, but the Nightbringer is going to kill more than its share. Its just too little too late to prevent Phase Out.

grankobot wrote:Note how it defines who this power effects - ENEMY units within 6" of the nightbringer, and you use it after assault moves have been made. This means that in order to protect your units, you've got to have, oh, your entire army closer than 6" to the nightbringer in order to prevent your dudes from being charged.

So you bunch up your whole force and meanwhile the ork player is chilling in his vehicles, which you can't touch since your necrons. He realizes he can't assault you. However, your entire army is in one place. He has enough movement to tank shock you.

With every vehicle.

Going through every unit.

Of your not fearless army.

What's that, you can't pass 5-6 LD10 checks EVERY turn for EVERY unit in your army?

lol

I really LOL-ed at this.
Ok, my bad for not listening to previous advice - I should really ignore this troll. I don't think he is playing 40k .

I shant waste time debating about this, because I am now pretty positive you havent played against necrons. If you can drive your vehs through the monolith wall, then go ahead. But I play 40k, I don't know what you play though.

No wonder everyone calls you a troll... ...

I don't see how it's not valid advice?

First of all, by forcing yourself into a 12" diameter bubble you're severely crippled in one of the three missions. You have between 3 and 5 objectives on the table, but you can cover at most 2 of them with your castle. That's a problem for you.

How about the 2 objective mission? He can spend the whole game running from you and then cruise in to contest your objective while holding his. Because your nightbringer has to babysit your 'bots wherever they go he'll be free to munch on anything that strays too far. Either you wind up contesting your home objective at the end of the game or contesting your own. What's that, you say? "that's lame"? Well so is hiding in your deployment zone and doing nothing for a whole game.

Secondly, tank shock is a totally viable option to force your dudes out of formation. A LD10 unit will break something like 49% of the time if it's forced to make 10 LD checks. How many units do you have in that bubble? More than 2? Chances are, something will be chased out and will be free to be assaulted in the following phase. Even if you make all those morale checks, his trukks can take up enough space to completely force your army outside of your bubble of protection just by forcing them to stay more than 1" away from the trukks. Nothing you can do about that.

If you can drive your vehs through the monolith wall, then go ahead.

Multiple monoliths AND the nightbringer in one list? That's not an army you bring to a tournament, dude. Anything that can reliably kill oh, 5 or 6 necron warriors in one shooting phase will take you to town...

DarkHound wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:I believe the Nightbringer ignores all saves, even invulnerable ones.

Oh blast, I forgot all about that rule. Stupid Warscythes. So, yes, infact this list has absolutely nothing that can beat the Nightbringer. I retract my statement.

While you can't ignore the Nightbringer, you can feed him and keep him content. I don't think Dash would have a problem against Necrons, but the Nightbringer is going to kill more than its share. Its just too little too late to prevent Phase Out.

I also retract my statment, I hate playing against gods, my can't gork and mork be playable.

grankobot wrote:Multiple monoliths AND the nightbringer in one list? That's not an army you bring to a tournament, dude. Anything that can reliably kill oh, 5 or 6 necron warriors in one shooting phase will take you to town...

2 monoliths is enough to wall off a corner. The ork list has nothing to reliably take down 20-30 warriors.

Orkish wrote:

grankobot wrote:Multiple monoliths AND the nightbringer in one list? That's not an army you bring to a tournament, dude. Anything that can reliably kill oh, 5 or 6 necron warriors in one shooting phase will take you to town...

2 monoliths is enough to wall off a corner. The ork list has nothing to reliably take down 20-30 warriors.

So you sit in your corner and hope the other guy decides to come over and play.

KPs - draw

2 objectives - draw

multiple objectives - lose

That's not a strategy, that's just being a jerk. Why would you show up to play in a tournament and then spend your games.. not playing? lol

Thats being smart
If the ork decides to be smart alec and hug back, the necron player will happily do some free shooting for the first 3 turns. And any wreck result to the battlewagon will be a bonus

I ll be happy to meet a fool like you in tournament :-)

Orkish wrote:Thats being smart
If the ork decides to be smart alec and hug back, the necron player will happily do some free shooting for the first 3 turns. And any wreck result to the battlewagon will be a bonus

I ll be happy to meet a fool like you in tournament :-)

Longest ranged gun in your entire army is 36 inches. If the Ork player decides to chill in the opposite corner of the 6 x 4 board - well, you're screwed.

Jump out with heavy destroyers? They'll get assaulted. You lose the unit.

Make space to fire in between the monoliths? Orks stay out of range.

Abandon your castle and move into range? Uh yeah, that won't end so great for you

Stay in your castle, do nothing. Draw, draw, lose.

..

Orkish wrote:So you are saying if you hug back in your corner like a fool, the necron player is suppose to be as dumb as you and try shooting you from HIS corner? Cant he move forward and shoot depending on the situation?
Come on, quit trolling. Your answers are really, really dumb.

I have to agree with grankobot here. If you break castle against this KoS, you lose. Even I, with my CSM, wouldn't dare do it.

However, both of you need to stop flaming before the mods show up. The personal attacks are going to get the thread locked, and I rather like this discussion (save the last few posts).

I'm not trying to make it personal at all - just arguing my point. Everything I've said re: nightbringer nonsense has been a completely valid point from the PoV of Dash's army.

Unless saying "you're wrong" is making it personal and if it is then why even have a discussion?

I ll juz have to stay 30-36inches away. If his trukks can move flat out and 18inches, and then waaagh + assault, then yes I lose :-)

See, here's the problem with that. You can only "face" one direction with your monoliths guarding your army - they just don't have the coverage necessary to protect you from tank shocking without the help of board edges. Like I said earlier, if you stick to a board edge it turns into a denial game and you literally can't do better than draw. That's not a game plan, that's just lame.

If you do try to move up to shooting range you've got to expose a flank. With 2 battlewagons and 5 trukks you bet your ass it's going to have pressure put on it. Orks split their forces in each corner during deployment (yes, one of them will lose out on the cover save. big deal, necron shooting. ) and roll up on the flanks. What do you do then? Guard left, they come right. Guard right, they come left. Point your monoliths at the opposite corners with just little enough space that a trukk can't fit and you delay them maybe an extra turn of movement to roll up behind you.

The idea behind this strategy is a tiered defense. I get that - here's a wall, you've got to get by it to get to the rest of my guys. It's a strategy that works for lots of armies, but necrons aren't one of them.

You don't have the firepower to make an extra turn of shooting worth it. That's not to say that Necrons can't have "decent" firepower vs light vehicles, but those come from heavy destroyers. You can fit one unit in an army with 2 monoliths. Refer back to: not enough firepower.

Your "wall" is ridiculously expensive. 830 points of "guarding" units? Where's the rest of your army? You've got no punch, which means that although you can be very survivable you can't actually win the games unless your opponent feeds you just enough of his army for you to handle at once.

And finally... you're going to have a very very slim model count. That means your opponent will control the field and you'll be PERMANENTLY on defense. He can put pressure on you however he wants, which means that if has the power to break even one of your units you lose. If he's got ordnance templates, you lose. If he's got stronger than S3 assault troops... you lose.


I understand this thread is about dismantling Dash's army, but when it comes down to it this is list tailoring on a ridiculous level. With a nightbringer and 2 monoliths for the purposes of protecting your dudes from assault you're over 800 points in the hole already? That's a serious handicap against, well, any shooting army or any assault army with a majority strength of 4 or better which is pretty much everyone except for orks.

Not something you'd bring to a tournament.

DarkHound wrote:

Orkish wrote:So you are saying if you hug back in your corner like a fool, the necron player is suppose to be as dumb as you and try shooting you from HIS corner? Cant he move forward and shoot depending on the situation?
Come on, quit trolling. Your answers are really, really dumb.

I have to agree with grankobot here. If you break castle against this KoS, you lose. Even I, with my CSM, wouldn't dare do it.

However, both of you need to stop flaming before the mods show up. The personal attacks are going to get the thread locked, and I rather like this discussion (save the last few posts).

I ll juz have to stay 30-36inches away. If his trukks can move flat out and 18inches, and then waaagh + assault, then yes I lose :-)

I do have very little patience against trolls, especially when it comes to talking about how to play orks.

What about necron destroyer swarm? That could cause some serious issues for this army

Eidolon wrote:What about necron destroyer swarm? That could cause some serious issues for this army

That might win, actually, for the same reasons Mechdar would: mobile firepower. It'd still depend greatly on how many transports he could disembark on turn 1.

I could see something like this being potentially effective:

Destroyer Lord, Orb, Staff - 170

5 Destroyers - 250

5 Destroyers - 250

10 Scarabs, Disruption Field - 160

10 Warriors - 180

10 Warriors - 180

6 Immortals - 168

6 Immortals - 168

2 Heavy Destroyers - 130

2 Heavy Destroyers - 130

That's 1786 so can easily be trimmed down (drop some scarabs) to 1750 or scaled up (add some tomb spyders to create a fire magnet with the lord maybe?) to 1850.

Scarabs line the frontage of your destroyer wing vs assaulty armies, turbo boost and tie crap up vs shooty armies, and generally be a pain with their ridiculous cover saves. Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers form 2 lines on each side of the lord, just behind the scarabs. Immortals and warriors go behind that, or camp on your objective. Heavy Destroyers deploy on the flanks and take advantage of the battlewagons' long av12 sides.

Everything is redundant to take advantage of nearby units to avoid being stranded for WBB rolls. Think of it as a mobile castle. Only one unit in the army that can't roll for WBB, phase out number is 35ish.

Still not very likely that you can break your opponent's mobility before he hits you and once he does you're boned. Sadly, this is about as good as Necrons get. They were written for 3rd edition and their dated-ness is showing badly.

Deceiver-300

5 Destroyers - 250

5 Destroyers - 250

5 Destroyers - 250

11 Warriors - 198

11 Warriors - 198

2 Heavy Destroyers - 130

2 Heavy Destroyers - 130

2 Heavy Destroyers - 130

Ive considered running a list like that before. Mobile pew pew out the ass

Basically rush one flank, immobilize everything, try and to the same to the other. And then just pick off boyz. I think that list if commanded by a good necron player would give an ork list like Dash's fits. Not like hes going to shoot the deciever to death and that guy can just avoid combat.

doesn't the necron player still have to deal with that 4+ cover save thanks to the KFF. Would the warriors get WBB against the burnas if they were used as power weapons? A tarpit and a mobile shooty army are certainly going to be problematic for an assaulty army though. I don't knowenough about Necrons apart from that WBB roll is pretty irritating and monoliths are phenomenal.

poodle wrote:doesn't the necron player still have to deal with that 4+ cover save thanks to the KFF. Would the warriors get WBB against the burnas if they were used as power weapons? A tarpit and a mobile shooty army are certainly going to be problematic for an assaulty army though. I don't knowenough about Necrons apart from that WBB roll is pretty irritating and monoliths are phenomenal.

tri Monolith would work gloriously against this list, but little else. Yes he still gets the 4+, big deal. 5 destroyers are gonna put a statistical 5 damage results on a tank. Lets say he rolls hot and thats 2 damage results on each of 3 trucks from the 3 destroyer squads. With an open topped vehicle the chances of it at least being immobile are great. In addition theres the wagon which will get hurt by side shots from the 6 destroyers, putting another statistical 1 damage result through the armor of a single wagon.

Its not a promise of victory, but he better hope that the cron player rolls bad for stopping that armor rush. The warriors are just there to be troops and play clean up on boyz squads.

Necrons might be able to crush this list, but necrons are no longer viable in 5th ed.

I would discount any specific build that can beat this army.

Pepper is looking for more of an all-comers army to test against.

We did suggest lists that are all comers, such as mobile shooty, and various kinds of hoard

imweasel wrote:Necrons might be able to crush this list, but necrons are no longer viable in 5th ed.

I would discount any specific build that can beat this army.

Pepper is looking for more of an all-comers army to test against.

A lot of us have already provided him with our all comers builds, and what they could and couldnt do to beat him. And the necron list I posted is a fairly common necron one.

grankobot wrote:If you do try to move up to shooting range you've got to expose a flank. With 2 battlewagons and 5 trukks you bet your ass it's going to have pressure put on it. Orks split their forces in each corner during deployment (yes, one of them will lose out on the cover save. big deal, necron shooting. ) and roll up on the flanks. What do you do then? Guard left, they come right. Guard right, they come left. Point your monoliths at the opposite corners with just little enough space that a trukk can't fit and you delay them maybe an extra turn of movement to roll up behind you.

You seem contradictory to yourself. So are you hugging back at one corner or are your splitting your forces? You seem to have suggested both, changing your stance every now and then. If you are splitting your forces, I am pretty sure the Necron player has 36 inch of range to the shorter side There is no need for the Necron player to try to shoot to the opposite corner. All he have to do is shoot the closest threat. If EVRYONE is more than 30 inches away, then there isnt really any harm moving up and breaking up the wall slightly. You don't seem to be a very flexible person when it comes to playing 40k...

If Necrons hugging back is lame, then I don't know what to say about the ork player who does the same thing.