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LRB 6.0 has been put on the website and it looks like something a 12 year old knocked up on the back of a cereal packet.

I feel bad for the community in general, but most of all I feel bad for Galak.

He slaved over this ruleset for 5 years to deliver a great pdf with artwork and fluff including as well as page references. Now on top of G(reedy) W(TF) shafting him from the BBRC, they've gone and done this to the official ruleset for all the players!

His reaction taken from TalkFantasyFootball:

"Oh my God ... that is what I gave up 5 years of my life for ... wow.

Werewolves with 2 different stat lines (they could have gone with a Bear ... they still sell bear figures)

Page references where the pages are not present.

The Rat Ogre one was my typo ... and damn I really thought I had triple checked all of that ... have no idea how that got through as a typo ... so don't blame GW for that one.

The credits page is gone ... so GW won't even acknowledge the folks that gave up so much time to bring this.

And the idea that folks should play LRB 1.0 because its less cut-throat ... that's lawyer speak for Jervis being told that we don't want to push these rules over the ones printed and in the boxed set (so all you should feel free to go back to LRB 1.0).

Jervis should be ashamed (I have no other word) for what he's allowed legal to do to him.

Galak"



Automatically Appended Next Post:
To add my further comment, I feel that this is the most unproffessional act, let alone actual release of product from any games company to date I have experience with...it's abominable.

Wow, that is sad.

But, perhaps not 100% unexpected, given all that's been going on with GW and their legal department lately?

Still, an odd choice to make, to be sure...

Are the 'Star Players' in there?

Damn. Is Version 5 still available?

What's so bad about the new book? Can somebody give me few examples. I didn't follow the game for years.

Link here -
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m750496a_BB_Competition_Rules_Pack.pdf

Will have to have a read through before commenting.

BeefyG wrote:The credits page is gone ... so GW won't even acknowledge the folks that gave up so much time to bring this.

That's the worst bit IMO, a disgusting thing to do.

I dare anyone to defend this abysmal document. It is the worst thing GW could have done while still nominally releasing LRB6.

No credits? Harsh.

I don't play Blood Bowl, but some of the locals have been talking about getting it started. That said even I feel insulted by the lack of style in that release. That "guide" looks like it was edited together by a 5 year old in art class. The double page format makes the text WAY too small, so you saved people printing art but are killing their eyesight in the meantime, kudos! I'm hoping that one of the complete copies is floating around on the net somewhere, if only for ease of reading.

No one can possibly grant this disgusting behaviour any sort of vindication nor defence.

That people, Our People, the community, the gamers, should have given of their time and effort and for it to be over-ridden, ignored and unsung.

Once again GW, piss poor. Once again, for shame.

Once again, while there are undoubtedly sound commercial reasons for this move - probably something to do with trying to ensure the published ruleset doesn't devalue the licence they sold to the computer game people - their lack of editorial care in extracting the fluff and erasing of the credits demonstrates the utter contempt in which their bigwigs hold their loyal fanbase.

Shame on you G(ranny) W(easel), shame on you for allowing such a blatant and obvious sell out.

Even more than ever (now it is shorn of fluff and pics) their assertion of the rules being the "property of GW" is shown to be a complete sham and a farce. Seriously I doubt whether that assertion could hold up in court! In fact the true authors should sue GW (and I believe they would have a reasonable case) for plagiarism in publishing work without crediting the original authors.

I have just caught up with episode 68 of 40kradio (I'd stopped listening to it a good few months back) and they were mentioning a possible class action against GW for their shenanikins in persuing incorrect and unsupportable harrasment of fans with malicious claims of non-existent IP infringement. If there is even a sniff of this coming about I'm up for contributing to the fighting fund!

And I don't even play Blood Bowl.

I don't really see how or why anyone would keep trying to support Blood Bowl in any way. It's not like the rule system's that awesome to begin with (it's easily among the least elegant of GW's rulesets, relying on props like the range ruler and blocking dice).

Yeah... that pdf looks like it was edited in a back alley with a crowbar and a hacksaw, the hacksaw obviously being used to remove the credits page...

yeah,
Shame on GW, this is disgusting. I really feel for Tom and the other BBRC members.
I'm Pissed off that GW sell me minitures for teams not in LRB1 and then label me a cut-throat player for using them with LRB6.

Panic...

While I am aware that the two parties aren't directly involved, has anyone ever considered writing an angry letter to Jervis. He's (sort of) the person who talks to the community. Not that it would help much, but shouldn't we start to tell GW that we're not satisfied with their recent decisions?

Anung Un Rama wrote:While I am aware that the two parties aren't directly involved, has anyone ever considered writing an angry letter to Jervis. He's (sort of) the person who talks to the community. Not that it would help much, but shouldn't we start to tell GW that we're not satisfied with their recent decisions?

Be our guest. I have written letters in the past. I have also even received a response. I have also understood that sod-all happened as a result. Still, if you think helping GW save itself from itself is worth the price of a stamp to you go for it. It will definitely get through better than a random rant on a forum will do.

Personally I don't even think they are worth the price of a stamp. As I think GW have gone beyond the point of even listening to real, paper letters. It is so obvious that those in power at GW really just regard "veteran gamers" as some sort of scum to be exploited and abused freely whenever they can't be bothered to remember they are actually their main source of advertising. If there was a chance they'd have to answer to a real, flesh and blood judge though, I'd be in there with a couple of quid to help out!

As Yak posted a few days back, the real issue is that GW epicly fail in any way to adequately communicate with their player base in any acceptable sense of the word. THere has to be some way of getting the gakkers to answer to those unfairly and adversely affected by their actions.

I still think it is worth the effort, on some level, to (for lack of a better term) "Save GW From Itself"!

I have gotten years of enjoyment from their gaming products and would be sad to see them disappear.

I'd love for them to bring back Epic and support it too...

Still, they really need to "figure out" the Internet (it isn't going away!) and how to treat and communicate with their fanbase.

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Thinking about it, if a couple of irate music-lovers can leverage Facebook to give Simon Cowell a slap upside the face, then surely the internet can be utilised to give GW a caning too? Cowell's (is that how you spell his name?) empire is much bigger and the X-Factor is a much more potent entity than GW so you'd think it'd be possible, wouldn't you?!

Osbad wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:While I am aware that the two parties aren't directly involved, has anyone ever considered writing an angry letter to Jervis. He's (sort of) the person who talks to the community. Not that it would help much, but shouldn't we start to tell GW that we're not satisfied with their recent decisions?

Be our guest. I have written letters in the past. I have also even received a response. I have also understood that sod-all happened as a result. Still, if you think helping GW save itself from itself is worth the price of a stamp to you go for it. It will definitely get through better than a random rant on a forum will do.

Personally I don't even think they are worth the price of a stamp. As I think GW have gone beyond the point of even listening to real, paper letters. It is so obvious that those in power at GW really just regard "veteran gamers" as some sort of scum to be exploited and abused freely whenever they can't be bothered to remember they are actually their main source of advertising. If there was a chance they'd have to answer to a real, flesh and blood judge though, I'd be in there with a couple of quid to help out!

As Yak posted a few days back, the real issue is that GW epicly fail in any way to adequately communicate with their player base in any acceptable sense of the word. THere has to be some way of getting the gakkers to answer to those unfairly and adversely affected by their actions.

I agree with most of this post, but I wonder about the part where people are trying to "save" GW, or wanting them to "answer" for their crimes to the community.

In my opinion, you purchase a game, gather your forces, get a few friends hooked.....bam! Its yours, nobody can mess with your ongoing experience. Yes, the company that spawned your game can produce updates, outdate your army, or even produce new products, but all said and done, theres no real pressure to follow their lead. You simply say no thanks, and move on.

I think all the negativity aimed at GW (and I'm one of the worst...probably ) comes from an illogical attachment to said company......I mean, as an example, you buy a Ford Mondeo.....you love the car and enjoy driving it! Ford then replaces the Mondeo range with....something else, you go for a test drive....but decide, its not for you....what do you do? Do you buy it anyway and complain on public Forums that Ford is rubbish? or do you simply go and buy a Toyota?

GW has clearly taken a new direction from what some veterans remember as a "hey day" of gaming. Theres no need to send them letters, or demand a return to their old business strategy, the best message you can send them is to simply walk away!

For those that have fond memories of GW and the game systems that used to give you joy, theres really nothing stopping you from playing those GW games indefinately! If you prefer WH40K version 2 over version 3,4, and 5 then just play version 2! Yes, you will probably find it hard to find an opponent, but then, thats the way the cookie crumbles, and again, I say walk away.

GW is a machine, it can't be reasoned with, and it can't be bargained with....but unlike the Terminator, you can turn your back on it.....enjoy your freedom.

Edit# I love the idea of using Facebook to send a slap to GW, however, the reason why the whole X-Factor thang actually worked is because it is so big. Everyone knows about the X-Factor, and everyone has an opinon bout it one way or another...the same can't be said about GW products....in comparrison its obscure, a spot on the butt of geekdom! And....its a physical product, where as the X-Factor winner is only an "idea".....in so much as, either his music rocks your world, or it makes you spew

Delephont wrote:
GW is a machine, it can't be reasoned with, and it can't be bargained with....but unlike the Terminator, you can turn your back on it.....enjoy your freedom.

I was getting ready to respond to you on what exactly GW "owes" its fanbase and how they could (and should!) communicate with their fanbase, but the I read that and laughed!

Train of thought - derailed!

Delephont wrote:

Osbad wrote:

Anung Un Rama wrote:While I am aware that the two parties aren't directly involved, has anyone ever considered writing an angry letter to Jervis. He's (sort of) the person who talks to the community. Not that it would help much, but shouldn't we start to tell GW that we're not satisfied with their recent decisions?

Be our guest. I have written letters in the past. I have also even received a response. I have also understood that sod-all happened as a result. Still, if you think helping GW save itself from itself is worth the price of a stamp to you go for it. It will definitely get through better than a random rant on a forum will do.

Personally I don't even think they are worth the price of a stamp. As I think GW have gone beyond the point of even listening to real, paper letters. It is so obvious that those in power at GW really just regard "veteran gamers" as some sort of scum to be exploited and abused freely whenever they can't be bothered to remember they are actually their main source of advertising. If there was a chance they'd have to answer to a real, flesh and blood judge though, I'd be in there with a couple of quid to help out!

As Yak posted a few days back, the real issue is that GW epicly fail in any way to adequately communicate with their player base in any acceptable sense of the word. THere has to be some way of getting the gakkers to answer to those unfairly and adversely affected by their actions.

I agree with most of this post, but I wonder about the part where people are trying to "save" GW, or wanting them to "answer" for their crimes to the community.

In my opinion, you purchase a game, gather your forces, get a few friends hooked.....bam! Its yours, nobody can mess with your ongoing experience. Yes, the company that spawned your game can produce updates, outdate your army, or even produce new products, but all said and done, theres no real pressure to follow their lead. You simply say no thanks, and move on.

I think all the negativity aimed at GW (and I'm one of the worst...probably ) comes from an illogical attachment to said company......I mean, as an example, you buy a Ford Mondeo.....you love the car and enjoy driving it! Ford then replaces the Mondeo range with....something else, you go for a test drive....but decide, its not for you....what do you do? Do you buy it anyway and complain on public Forums that Ford is rubbish? or do you simply go and buy a Toyota?

GW has clearly taken a new direction from what some veterans remember as a "hey day" of gaming. Theres no need to send them letters, or demand a return to their old business strategy, the best message you can send them is to simply walk away!

For those that have fond memories of GW and the game systems that used to give you joy, theres really nothing stopping you from playing those GW games indefinately! If you prefer WH40K version 2 over version 3,4, and 5 then just play version 2! Yes, you will probably find it hard to find an opponent, but then, thats the way the cookie crumbles, and again, I say walk away.

GW is a machine, it can't be reasoned with, and it can't be bargained with....but unlike the Terminator, you can turn your back on it.....enjoy your freedom.

Edit# I love the idea of using Facebook to send a slap to GW, however, the reason why the whole X-Factor thang actually worked is because it is so big. Everyone knows about the X-Factor, and everyone has an opinon bout it one way or another...the same can't be said about GW products....in comparrison its obscure, a spot on the butt of geekdom! And....its a physical product, where as the X-Factor winner is only an "idea".....in so much as, either his music rocks your world, or it makes you spew

That illogical attachment to the company is called Brand Loyalty. It is the Holy Grail of marketing, which most consumer facing companies put astonishing effort into building and maintaining. Part of the effort is not pissing on your consumers' chips (french fries.) This is the part GW are not so good at.

You're absolutely right though -- once you've bought a game it doesn't stop being playable because the company that sold it goes bust.

Alpharius wrote:

Delephont wrote:
GW is a machine, it can't be reasoned with, and it can't be bargained with....but unlike the Terminator, you can turn your back on it.....enjoy your freedom.

I was getting ready to respond to you on what exactly GW "owes" its fanbase and how they could (and should!) communicate with their fanbase, but the I read that and laughed!

Train of thought - derailed!

Well, I'm glad you saw the funny side, before you tore me a new hole.

But genuinely, I would like to understand what exactly you feel GW owes its "fans" or should I say consumers......I really can't see how they differ from any other product line availible to the public?

Over to you sir.

Kilkrazy wrote:
That illogical attachment to the company is called Brand Loyalty. It is the Holy Grail of marketing, which most consumer facing companies put astonishing effort into building and maintaining. Part of the effort is not pissing on your consumers' chips (french fries.) This is the part GW are not so good at.

You're absolutely right though -- once you've bought a game it doesn't stop being playable because the company that sold it goes bust.

There, that's what I was going to say!

So, yeah, what he said!

Kilkrazy wrote:
That illogical attachment to the company is called Brand Loyalty. It is the Holy Grail of marketing, which most consumer facing companies put astonishing effort into building and maintaining. Part of the effort is not pissing on your consumers' chips (french fries.) This is the part GW are not so good at.

You're absolutely right though -- once you've bought a game it doesn't stop being playable because the company that sold it goes bust.

I totally agree. Brand Loyaty is a very important tool. I work for a niche luxury automotive manufacturer, and without Brand Loyalty things could get hard, real quick......but heres the thing, where most companies spend a lot of time and effort ( customer survey, anyone?) into maintianing repeat custom, GW seem to feel this is somehow unimportant and intend to buck the trend.

My point was, what happens when a company ignores this facet of marketing? they lose customers.....period.

Well, ultimately, this is what needs to happen at GW, they need to lose the support they have come to rely upon and take for granted.

The only people who should ever be able to treat the veteran GW users as GW currently do, are Heroin pushers on street corners (assuming once you've spent your earnings on GW plastic crack, you have enough left over for Heroine). We act like addicts instead of thinking, responsible, well educated adults with choices.

Delephont wrote:The only people who should ever be able to treat the veteran GW users as GW currently do, are Heroin pushers on street corners (assuming once you've spent your earnings on GW plastic crack, you have enough left over for Heroine). We act like addicts instead of thinking, responsible, well educated adults with choices.

I totally agree as it happens. Personally I was at the state of being an "outraged fanboi" in around 2004/05 when I couldn't believe the things they were doing to my beloved LotR game and model range. I wrote letters, I campaigned online, I organised boycotts, I even got myself sacked as a playtester because of my online outrage at many of their decisions. I'm well over that now and personally just treat GW as a manufacturer of toys, some of which I like, many of which I don't. I don't see them as any higher than (say) Ford or General Motors. And (as I thought) my comments illustrated, I personally don't think they are worth saving, and believe market forces should be allowed to continue to erase their profits.

BUT. Unlike Ford or General Motors I am aware that they take advantage of their fans commitment and exploit it. Many of their fans are young and even many of the older ones don't have a mature outlook and responsibility towards money. The "crack addict" analagy stands. Obviously there's a lot of hyperbole and I don't want to overstate the point, but just as a drug pusher exploits his customers, so, to a much more limited and of course entirely legal way, does GW. They take advantage of the fact that many of their customers are not entirely "rational" when it comes to the price they are prepared to pay for their products. At least from my point of view. Now.

Is it worth trying to save GW from itslef? In my view, probably not.

Is it worth trying to protect gamerss (even against their will) from an abusive company who takes advantage of the law to exploit its fan base? Hell yeah!

Is it fun having a rage against the machine in revenge for perceived slights? Even more so!

i belive i have a copy of LBR 5 (and 4) as it was released as a free download i dont think GW can stop me from sharing it with the comunity. if the mods agree i'll take pm's and send it out to those intrested.
As always GW has lived up to my recent exspectations. they really deserve the 'kick to the nads' award this year for fan relations.
As MGS said
SHAME!

'Games Workshop' needs to change their name to 'Citadel Miniatures', as they have long ago lost the ability to actually produce good games.

Absolutely disappointing, this certainly would put me off from playing BB, and it actually has.

Alpharius wrote:Still, they really need to "figure out" the Internet (it isn't going away!) and how to treat and communicate with their fanbase.

GW management appears to understand this less now than they did 10 years ago. Their response to all the criticism they've received over the years (lots of it unwarranted, mind you) has been only to become more insular and controlling. I doubt that trend is going to change without a major effort spurred on by management. Just look at how the cease and desist orders have spooked even the hobby forums who weren't affected.

It's a shame, because I don't think I've ever met anyone from the design studio who wasn't engaging and enthusiastic about their work. GW looks to me like a company that could really use some fresh, outside thinking at the middle and upper levels of management. The relationship with customers really doesn't have to be like this.

There is one thing that I can put out that is positive about the new book. It is smaller then the original has all the rules needed to play the game and is you guessed it free. With all the companies going out and making people buy the updates to their game systems GW is giving this one away. They made is small and simple for people to get a hold of and print it out for a few bucks instead of the 25 bucks a big book would of cost if you printed it at kinkos. You can print this at home at a reasonable cost.

So... exactly what changed between LRB5 and LRB6, other than the removal of the credits? Not having a copy of LRB5 here at work with me, rather hard to spot the changes.