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Im looking to add Tigurius to my army, and was curious if anyone could recommend what the minimum points game might be best?

Also, his Hood of Hellfire lets him use 3 powers a turn, can they be the same, have to be different? It doesnt specify, and 3 Storm of the Emperor's Wrath would be pretty awesome against....most things.

Thanks!
T-

Well, I'd use him in 1850 pt games but not in lower pt games.

Tigerius is cool, but without a INV save he isn't worth it.

I think you would be happier with a Termie Epistolary with a Storm Shield.

If it doesn't say they can be the same power then they can't.

it says it in the BRB somewhere that you can use each power only once a turn

Tigurius is a terrible character. yes it can use 3 psyhic powers, but he does not have INV. that means if something go wrong, he probably kills himself in 1 round. i just curious why the major SM librarian characater do not have INV....

I appreciate the feedback, though only 2 of you answered the actual question.

I was curious as to the points level, I didnt ask if he was a terrible character. The Terminator Epistolary does sound cool though. Cant go wrong with Terminator Armor anyways.

Also, He does get an Invulnerable Save in the form of the psychic power Force Dome. It gives him and any unit he is with a 5+ Invulnerable. While not as good as a Storm Shield, it's still an Invulnerlable Save.

Im leaning towards using him in 1500+ games, I think that might be the best.

If I did want to run a Terminator Librarian, what kind of wargear/upgrades would you recommend for 1000pts or smaller games?

Thanks!
T-

1: I'd go for games over 1,500, any less and it would be a pretty nasty point-sink.


2: Unless it states he can in the dex, he cant.
In the BRB it states you cannot use the same power more than once per turn.
so the dex would have to have a rule for him to overide this.

but then you are using 1 psychic power a turn on an invulnerable save. and ur back down to being an epistolary.

Except Epistolary's dont come with a Master Crafter Force Weapon or the ability ro re-roll any reserves roll.

Not saying he's the best psyker around, I just got him because Im starting into Ultramarines and thought a characterful character would help them be more than just blue armored marines. Just like running Vulkan He'stan or Kantor for their respective chapters.

Thanks!
T-

yes but vulkan gives my army re rolls on all flamers and melta weapons.. which i think is better than rolling reserves.. unless you plan an all drop pod army or an all out flank army


Automatically Appended Next Post:
he also master crafts my thunder hammers

Again, Im not comparing him to those specific characters and their abilities. What Im saying is, if you play Salamanders you'll want to put Vulkan in, if you play Crimson Fists you wouldnt want to pass up on Kantor, regardless of what they actually do, they're characters from those specific Chapters and will add a special element to your army. THATS what Im saying.

I dont think running Calgar or Sicarius everytime is feasible, like they wont go to every scrap and skirmish. But Cassius and Tigurius might be more commonly seen leading smaller contingents or even participating in decent sized battles where having the Chapter Master or Captain of the 2nd Company isnt possible for one reason or another.

So yea, Twin Linked this and that and Master Crafter others are awesome, but Vulkan's not in the Ultramarines, and though I COULD use the character, I choose not to because it doesnt fit. Besides, Ultramarines have 6 characters to choose from, no need to steal from other Chapters. haha.

Thanks!
T-


Automatically Appended Next Post:
**Here's something I was kicking around too: A Terminator Epistolary w/ Storm Shield might get the 2+/3+, which is awesome, and still get two powers as was mentioned above. But lets just say, for the heck of it, that you have Tigurius and a Tactical Squad, you could use Gate of Infinity to jump into Rapid Fire range of an appropriate enemy, use Smite along with the Tactical Squads Rapid Fire Bolter fire plus Assault Weapon, and then if the target is almost dead you could toss the Vortex of Doom on them and try to finish them off, or if you're worried about reprisals you could always use Force Bubble to help stem the tide of incoming fire or assault.

I checked it out too, a Terminator Epistolary w/ Storm Shield is 40pts less than Tigurius, but Tigurius gets ALL the powers and isnt restricted to just two(plus the Master Crafted Force Weapon and Re-rolls on reserves), which should give him a lot of flexibility.

Any thoughts there?
T-

In a 1500 point battle, given the choice, i would always choose Sicarius over Tigurius. I wouldn't really use either in a game of a smaller size.
Tigurius is really good at dying, if he had even a 5+ inv it might make him usable, but POTW will always hurt him (especially if you come up against runes of warding) and from my experience (being said eldar player) Tigurius is pretty useless imho

Tigerius is horribly over priced. Don't use him at all unless you absolutely want to. The only way I can honestly see him being good is in an all reserve army where his ability to reroll reserve rolls comes in very handy. Otherwise he is well and truly garbage.

Ok, so he's crap then.

Give me some ideas for Power Armored and Terminator Armored Librarians at what points levels they'd work best at and what powers are best chosen.

Thanks!
T-

My favorite builds:

stock libby with gate and avenger. 100pts

Termie libby with storm shield and same powers. 140 pts.

The way I like to run them is with a 10 man termie squad with 2 assault cannons. You use Gate and homing beacons to zip the squad around shooting the hell out of targets, then if needs be charging and hitting your target with avenger. That is hands down the best use I have found for this squad.

Another good one is gate and null zone as there are so many units with invul saves these days.

Another killer combo I have found is epistolary libby with gate and force dome, 10 sternguard and lysander.

You gate into rapid fire range of your target, hopefully with assistance from a homing beacon, you light a target up with specialty rounds that get a reroll to hit thanks to lysander, and force dome the squad to protect them from counter attack. Next turn Lysander breaks off from the squad and kicks the gak out of something. The sternguard gate away to shoot more stuff up. This also works with combi weapons and no Lysander.

I have tried two of these squads and the amount of mobile firepower they put out is fantastic, plus it is a lot of fun to teleport all over the board. If you have a squad of scout bikers or some drop pods with beacons, there is almost no risk of failure, either.

Smite, vortex, are not great, IMO as they just don't offer as much as gate and avenger do. MoA and Quickening are OK too, but I like to keep Libbys out of combat as they are pretty fragile if they aren't in termie armor with a SS.

One lil thing to note;

A locator beacon has to be on the board at the start of the turn for it to confer it bonus to deep-strikers. That means drop pod locator beacons wont work for the turn they drop down. Scout bikers could of course be used. Its 40pts per bad roll (one double result on a scatter) so it may/may not be worth investing points into scout biker/drop pod locator beacons.

Of course not scattering into terrain for dangerous terrain tests & mishaps is always a good thing too!

Remember that Tigurius can give himself and an accompanying unit a Iv5+ via Force Dome.

Use him in combination with Sicarius, Drop Pods and Vanguard to create a monster drop army.

400 Points in HQ, and only two paper weak characters.

Something to think about.

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:I appreciate the feedback, though only 2 of you answered the actual question.

I was curious as to the points level, I didnt ask if he was a terrible character. The Terminator Epistolary does sound cool though. Cant go wrong with Terminator Armor anyways

I would take him in 10,000 point games.

Any less than that and he is a points sink.

Thanks all who participated.

T-

So, I hate to drudge up a post I was going to let die, but I cant believe that this character is really that bad. I notice a lot of posts talking about how amazing Ahriman is, and while I do agree that Ahriman is pretty awesome, I cant help but think that Tigurius is much more useful, still has 3 powers, most of which are more useful, like Gate of Infinity.

Anyways, I do see the bonuses of using a Terminator Epistolary with a Storm Shield and whatever powers, but what if you arent using any Terminators? Dont you run into the same problem as running a Terminator Chaos Lord, in that you dont really have a great delivery system? Also, there isnt really that big a points difference between Tigurius and the Terminator Epistolary.

I realize the amazing 3++ the Term. Epistolary gets sorta trumps the 5++ Force Dome power, but it isnt just for Tigurius, but whatever squad he's with. The thing is too, you dont HAVE to always use the Force Dome power, I mentioned a scenario above about Tigurius Gate of Infinity'ing around with a squad, adding his Smite power to whatever shooting attacks they use and then if there's the threat of reprisal, use Force Dome, and if the enemy is weakened you could always try Vortex of Doom to finish them off, right?

I might be grasping at straws, but I really think there's more potential to Tigurius than a lot are giving credit for.

Thanks!
T-

You could, for example, use the Gate of Infinity to transport him and a squad of Sternguard to somewhere on the battlefield, using the Drop Pod Locator Beacons to make it pinpoint accurate (and you have plenty of them because of his +1 to reserves), activate a Null Zone to deal with any inconvenient invulnerable saves, and then cut loose with a salvo of Special Ammunition, and finish with a Force Dome for the coming retaliation.

Agreed he has some nice abilities and such, but the bottom line, is he's to expensive for what he does.

I run a Librarian with Force Weapon/Bolt Pistol and usually take either Null Zone/The Avenger, or Null Zone/Gate of Infinity. Depending on what I am going for. At 100 pts you can't go wrong.

I actually do use Tigerius in 5000pt games. No less

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:So, I hate to drudge up a post I was going to let die, but I cant believe that this character is really that bad. I notice a lot of posts talking about how amazing Ahriman is, and while I do agree that Ahriman is pretty awesome, I cant help but think that Tigurius is much more useful, still has 3 powers, most of which are more useful, like Gate of Infinity.

Anyways, I do see the bonuses of using a Terminator Epistolary with a Storm Shield and whatever powers, but what if you arent using any Terminators? Dont you run into the same problem as running a Terminator Chaos Lord, in that you dont really have a great delivery system? Also, there isnt really that big a points difference between Tigurius and the Terminator Epistolary.

I realize the amazing 3++ the Term. Epistolary gets sorta trumps the 5++ Force Dome power, but it isnt just for Tigurius, but whatever squad he's with. The thing is too, you dont HAVE to always use the Force Dome power, I mentioned a scenario above about Tigurius Gate of Infinity'ing around with a squad, adding his Smite power to whatever shooting attacks they use and then if there's the threat of reprisal, use Force Dome, and if the enemy is weakened you could always try Vortex of Doom to finish them off, right?

I might be grasping at straws, but I really think there's more potential to Tigurius than a lot are giving credit for.

Thanks!
T-

The 5++ for the squad he is with is not a good straw to grasp at. If you ave in cover, you get a 4+ anyways. There is no way you run around with tigirius out of cover or out of a rhino.

A hard sneeze kills tigirius.

I appreciate everyone trying to help haha. I wonder if this has something to do with buying a Tigurius figure at half off in a clearance bin.....I suppose the location should've told me something....

I cant help but ask though, how is it that everyone is all about Ahriman being worth the 250pts, but runs into most of the issues posted above? I suppose he has a built in 5+ "daemonic aura" that doesnt hinder his 3rd psychic power....but still.....

Thanks!
T-

I don't know about anyone who has claimed Ahriman is worth it at all. In fact, Tigurius is probably better than Ahriman. That said, Tigurius is not very good. The main use for him is his reserves reroll-- if you're not using that, he's vastly overcosted. I would only use him if I was running a mass reserves army, which probably means Drop Pods or Khan, and only then in 2,000 points and up.

Trogdor the Burninator:

Ahriman has a Iv4+, so there's three powers he can use without having to spend one protecting himself. Unfortunately most of the powers he can use aren't protective; the Gift of Chaos can be used protectively against Powerfists and opposing characters, but generally he's there to do damage, whereas Tigurius is there to provide support.

So almost....just almost, minus the Gate of Infinity......Ahriman's a little better off? I forgot about the Invulnerable Save being bumped to 4++ with Tzeentch and all.

Ah well, I guess Ill either use him or I wont.

Thanks all!
T-