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Hi,

the most trusted rumour posters over at Warseer, Harry and Hastings, just confirmed that "Orcs & Goblins" are the next Fantasy army book to be released. It is written by Jeremy Vetock, who also wrote the Skaven book and some stuff for "War of the Ring" and the "General's Compendium". Expect release Q1 2011.

Hastings also confirmed that there will be a huge spider kit with a howda full of Goblins. The spider's name is "Arachnarok" and is mentioned in the O&G section of the new rulebook. Seems to be on 2 chariot bases.

Avian said that there will be new savage orc models released with the army book.

That's all for now.

Calling bull.

Looking forward to this, especially the savage orcs. Maybe in plastic?

A Black Ram wrote:Looking forward to this, especially the savage orcs. Maybe in plastic?

Anything else would be a huge letdown and completely contrary to the trend of GW...so look forward to it!

Greets
Schepp himself

Sounds interesting!
Might have to make roomfor another army.


Kanluwen: Care to go into more detail on your reasoning?

Perhaps Orcs will get the long awaited Black Orc Boar Boyz? Or get rid of the dreaded animosity.

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Sounds interesting!
Might have to make room for another army.


Kanluwen: Care to go into more detail on your reasoning?

Simple. Orcs, while a flagship army of WHFB, don't need nearly as much work as people make them out to need. Wood Elves, Tomb Kings, and Ogres need it far far more.

Kanluwen wrote:

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:Sounds interesting!
Might have to make room for another army.


Kanluwen: Care to go into more detail on your reasoning?

Simple. Orcs, while a flagship army of WHFB, don't need nearly as much work as people make them out to need. Wood Elves, Tomb Kings, and Ogres need it far far more.

The three armies you named are also possibly the lowest sellers in Warhammer, it is no surprise that GW as a business would make Orcs first. Harry and Avian both have said that TK were just started and OK haven't been started. WE are a possibility, but the only one who has said so doesn't have a history of rumors.

I disagree... Ogres are very competitive now, and O&G still lag behind them. As a wood elf player, our traditional style in 7th edition no longer works, but we still have viable options. I have heard Tomb Kings are due up soon, but I guess not yet... perhaps they're next in line?

Also, O&G have needed an update badly for some time. Wood Elves suddenly seem to need one more in 8th, but have only been in this predicament a very short time- leading me to believe they're not up next...

Anyway, I'm excited to hear this!

Kanluwen wrote:Calling bull.

And this forum gets accused of calling 'salt' too often.

I honestly don't know where that stereotypy comes from...


... oh wait!

Nice, had it been just one of those three saying it, I;d have been putting this rumour in the 'quite likely' bracket. With all three saying they've heard its due, I'm willing to bet the farm on that one.

Bonus for me as well, just as my eldest is starting to get an interest in Orcs and Goblins and insisting his new nickname is Squig.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Calling bull.

And this forum gets accused of calling 'salt' too often.

I honestly don't know where that stereotype comes from...


... oh wait!

I'd rather post somewhere that is accused of being skeptical, than somewhere that takes every single random rumor at face value, to be honest.

Plus, the reason I call bull is simple. O&G work well. Wood Elves don't. Most of their magic items have been invalidated, their special rules were made obsolete, and as one of the GW designers noted in a recent "What's New Today"...

You can outfit a Wood Elf army far far better using the magic items in the rulebook, and ignoring any of the Wood Elves' signature units than you can by really going by the fluff based version of them.

GW doesn't let that sit for very long, if ever.

Aye, its not like the Wood Elves have been made to wait before with substandard rules.

Kanluwen wrote:You can outfit a Wood Elf army far far better using the magic items in the rulebook, and ignoring any of the Wood Elves' signature units than you can by really going by the fluff based version of them.

GW doesn't let that sit for very long, if ever.

This is what I would call bull on. I direct your attention to... God, I don't even want to list all the armies they've let lie fallow and waste away for years. Wood Elves are among them, however.

Still goes back to GW is after money not balancing out the armies.

O&G sell more than those three so I wouldnt be surprised if this is true. Even if they are over due

I'd actually love GW a lot more if they just came right out and said that, lol. "Yeah, we don't give a gak about balance, we just want your money. Buy your Space Marines and shut up."

with anything i see with GW...ill believe it when i see it. But always hopeful

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:Bonus for me as well, just as my eldest is starting to get an interest in Orcs and Goblins and insisting his new nickname is Squig.

I really hope he has an orange space hopper!

As one of my armies in waiting a new army book would be good.
Night gobbos are such jolly good fun!

Kanluwen wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Calling bull.

And this forum gets accused of calling 'salt' too often.

I honestly don't know where that stereotype comes from...


... oh wait!

I'd rather post somewhere that is accused of being skeptical, than somewhere that takes every single random rumor at face value, to be honest.

Plus, the reason I call bull is simple. O&G work well. Wood Elves don't. Most of their magic items have been invalidated, their special rules were made obsolete, and as one of the GW designers noted in a recent "What's New Today"...

You can outfit a Wood Elf army far far better using the magic items in the rulebook, and ignoring any of the Wood Elves' signature units than you can by really going by the fluff based version of them.

GW doesn't let that sit for very long, if ever.

So what you're telling me is that you have a bad memory, or you haven't been playing for very long.

How about Dark Eldar who are what, over a decade long without a new Codex? Necrons, Daemonhunters, and Witchhunters are pretty close to that too. Tomb Kings are also fairly long in the tooth, as are Ogres, in fact, both are about as old as the Wood Elves. Brettonians are also about that old... Meanwhile lets look at what has been redone in this period: Space Marines and Tyranids (both right after 4th and 5th edition...), Tau about midway through the 4th edition cycle (and they werereleased towards the tail end of 3rd edition, so they didnt wait very long at all), Chaos Space Marines have had what 3 codecies since Dark Eldar were released?

Yeah, no the reality of the situation calls "bull" on your post.

Sidstyler wrote:I'd actually love GW a lot more if they just came right out and said that, lol. "Yeah, we don't give a gak about balance, we just want your money. Buy your Space Marines and shut up."

Haven't they?

Indeed,actions speak louder than words...

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I'd actually love GW a lot more if they just came right out and said that, lol. "Yeah, we don't give a gak about balance, we just want your money. Buy your Space Marines and shut up."

Haven't they?

Yes, but I mean like saying it publicly. We can tell based on their actions, but I want them to say "Yeah, we're dicks, we don't care."

If harry said its the next book Id put money on that.. not internet hope for ogres/tomb kings

Pic of the (a) ginormus spider with howdah on pg Xiii in the BRB. I had originally thought it was someones conversion for legendary battles, but .... who knows maybe its the kit or inspiration for the kit.

Kanluwen wrote:
Plus, the reason I call bull is simple. O&G work well. Wood Elves don't. Most of their magic items have been invalidated, their special rules were made obsolete, and as one of the GW designers noted in a recent "What's New Today"...

You can outfit a Wood Elf army far far better using the magic items in the rulebook, and ignoring any of the Wood Elves' signature units than you can by really going by the fluff based version of them.

GW doesn't let that sit for very long, if ever.

You really believe that? How long were Brettonians waiting for a new book, only to have a new army in Ogre Kingdoms released before they saw a revamp?

Scottywan82 wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:You can outfit a Wood Elf army far far better using the magic items in the rulebook, and ignoring any of the Wood Elves' signature units than you can by really going by the fluff based version of them.

GW doesn't let that sit for very long, if ever.

This is what I would call bull on. I direct your attention to... God, I don't even want to list all the armies they've let lie fallow and waste away for years. Wood Elves are among them, however.

And I'd point simply towards the fact that there is a marked change in policy that we're seeing so far, simply from the PDFs.

chaos0xomega wrote:So what you're telling me is that you have a bad memory, or you haven't been playing for very long.

How about Dark Eldar who are what, over a decade long without a new Codex? Necrons, Daemonhunters, and Witchhunters are pretty close to that too. Tomb Kings are also fairly long in the tooth, as are Ogres, in fact, both are about as old as the Wood Elves. Bretonnians are also about that old... Meanwhile lets look at what has been redone in this period: Space Marines and Tyranids (both right after 4th and 5th edition...), Tau about midway through the 4th edition cycle (and they were released towards the tail end of 3rd edition, so they didn't wait very long at all), Chaos Space Marines have had what 3 codecies since Dark Eldar were released?

And let's look at the four 40k armies in particular that have been the same for quite awhile. They've been the ones that GW has flatout stated that they had no real idea what to do with the armies, and how to keep them interesting without completely rewriting the background of them(which is what it seems like has been done with Dark Eldar, in addition to having one sculptor doing almost the entire range by himself).

Also, really? The Tau as a "redo"?
You do realize that was basically a copy/paste of two units from Forge World's experimental rules, a few new characters and a few new model kits(the Skyray and Piranhas, both of which were scanned from the FW kits with a few modifications to make them work better in plastic, and new Stealth Suits) , along with the addition of the Vespids, right? That's a new Codex in the very loosest sense of the word. Orks in both Fantasy AND 40k have in recent months had more releases than the entire Tau Codex redo.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

hungryp wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Plus, the reason I call bull is simple. O&G work well. Wood Elves don't. Most of their magic items have been invalidated, their special rules were made obsolete, and as one of the GW designers noted in a recent "What's New Today"...

You can outfit a Wood Elf army far far better using the magic items in the rulebook, and ignoring any of the Wood Elves' signature units than you can by really going by the fluff based version of them.

GW doesn't let that sit for very long, if ever.

You really believe that? How long were Brettonians waiting for a new book, only to have a new army in Ogre Kingdoms released before they saw a revamp?

Bretonnians didn't need a new book when Ogre Kingdoms was released, bud.

That was what, two editions ago?

As long as their is a multipart squig kit im happy
*Wink Wink*

Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:So what you're telling me is that you have a bad memory, or you haven't been playing for very long.

How about Dark Eldar who are what, over a decade long without a new Codex? Necrons, Daemonhunters, and Witchhunters are pretty close to that too. Tomb Kings are also fairly long in the tooth, as are Ogres, in fact, both are about as old as the Wood Elves. Bretonnians are also about that old... Meanwhile lets look at what has been redone in this period: Space Marines and Tyranids (both right after 4th and 5th edition...), Tau about midway through the 4th edition cycle (and they were released towards the tail end of 3rd edition, so they didn't wait very long at all), Chaos Space Marines have had what 3 codecies since Dark Eldar were released?

And let's look at the four 40k armies in particular that have been the same for quite awhile. They've been the ones that GW has flatout stated that they had no real idea what to do with the armies, and how to keep them interesting without completely rewriting the background of them(which is what it seems like has been done with Dark Eldar, in addition to having one sculptor doing almost the entire range by himself).

Show me where GW have EVER said any such thing about those 4. Ever. You won't find it, because nobody from the Design Studio has ever SAID that. That is a fan-created theory to try to rationalize some of GW's decisions (and its not a very good one, seeing as how GW was mentioning some potential futures for all four of them years ago, we've know since before the release of 5th that the allies rule was going to be removed, etc. etc.). Additionally, we know little to nothing about whats going to happen with the Dark Eldar, nor do we know if Jes Goodwin really did sculpt the entire range by himself. I find that highly unlikely, especially when you consider that in the time he supposedly was sculpting the entire DE range, he was still producing sculpts for other factions.

Also, really? The Tau as a "redo"?
You do realize that was basically a copy/paste of two units from Forge World's experimental rules, a few new characters and a few new model kits(the Skyray and Piranhas, both of which were scanned from the FW kits with a few modifications to make them work better in plastic, and new Stealth Suits) , along with the addition of the Vespids, right? That's a new Codex in the very loosest sense of the word. Orks in both Fantasy AND 40k have in recent months had more releases than the entire Tau Codex redo.

Yes, that was still a redo. Lets compare them to the following 2 40k releases: Dark Angels and Eldar. Ruleswise, the Dark Angels got a couple new special characters, and the Eldar got Yriel and the Autarch. Everything else was just some slight balancing, much like the Tau codex. The Tau got 2 new special characters, Vespids, Pirahna's, the Skyray, and Sniper Drone teams. They got more new units than both of the aforementioned releases COMBINED, and all three came out within a year or so of eachother... So yes, they are a redo, and that is in the tight sense of the word.

Besides, now you are arguing semantics, and you didn't even attempt to argue my point in regards to all the Fantasy factions that are still waiting. Brettonians might not have needed a new book when the OK were released, but they sure as hell needed it when the Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Warriors of Chaos, Chaos Daemons and Lizardmen were released (also Skaven and Beastmen, but one could argue that the skaven/Beastmen needed it ALMOST as badly). Those FOUR armies were still decent enough under their old books at the time, but the Brettonians were already showing their age, instead GW decided to give them all a major boost, ostensibly because they were much bigger sellers than the Brettonians. Hell, they even went so far as to split up Hordes of Chaos into Warriors and Daemons. There were TWO new factions released instead of Brettonians for Fantasy.

Your exact words were: GW doesn't let that sit for very long, if ever. They have let that sit for at least a little while, so you can't say "if ever," and that little while happens to be nearly a decade in more than a couple of cases, so you can't say "for very long either."

They've been the ones that GW has flatout stated that they had no real idea what to do with the armies, and how to keep them interesting without completely rewriting the background of them(which is what it seems like has been done with Dark Eldar, in addition to having one sculptor doing almost the entire range by himself).

Now now, lets not exaggerate.. In order to rewrite the DE fluff you need to replace a whole *1* page since the extent of their "fluff" is a picture of the dark elf city from WFB with a new name and a page of writing which can be summarized as "We are eldar who likes slaves, male-thongs and spikes".. So not hard of a job to replace that stellar fluff

Yeah it sucks to play an army that no one buys.. but the sad reality is during a massive global recession its only logical GW would release armies that actually sell.. Im very surprised DE would be released at this time

chaos0xomega wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:So what you're telling me is that you have a bad memory, or you haven't been playing for very long.

How about Dark Eldar who are what, over a decade long without a new Codex? Necrons, Daemonhunters, and Witchhunters are pretty close to that too. Tomb Kings are also fairly long in the tooth, as are Ogres, in fact, both are about as old as the Wood Elves. Bretonnians are also about that old... Meanwhile lets look at what has been redone in this period: Space Marines and Tyranids (both right after 4th and 5th edition...), Tau about midway through the 4th edition cycle (and they were released towards the tail end of 3rd edition, so they didn't wait very long at all), Chaos Space Marines have had what 3 codecies since Dark Eldar were released?

And let's look at the four 40k armies in particular that have been the same for quite awhile. They've been the ones that GW has flatout stated that they had no real idea what to do with the armies, and how to keep them interesting without completely rewriting the background of them(which is what it seems like has been done with Dark Eldar, in addition to having one sculptor doing almost the entire range by himself).

Show me where GW have EVER said any such thing about those 4. Ever. You won't find it, because nobody from the Design Studio has ever SAID that. That is a fan-created theory to try to rationalize some of GW's decisions (and its not a very good one, seeing as how GW was mentioning some potential futures for all four of them years ago, we've know since before the release of 5th that the allies rule was going to be removed, etc. etc.). Additionally, we know little to nothing about whats going to happen with the Dark Eldar, nor do we know if Jes Goodwin really did sculpt the entire range by himself. I find that highly unlikely, especially when you consider that in the time he supposedly was sculpting the entire DE range, he was still producing sculpts for other factions.

Every Games Day, two interviews with fansites over the years, a few "off the record" statements that come from the very same rumormongers who are considered "the most trustworthy ways to find rumors", and even a Standard Bearer article a few years back?

Yeah, that's "nobody from the Design Studio ever saying that".

Dark Eldar have been in the works for what, 10ish years? That's not that absurd to consider for an entire range--considering some of the sculptors here who do work for Chapterhouse and Maxmini pump out 16 different models of varying sizes a year.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kirasu wrote:

They've been the ones that GW has flatout stated that they had no real idea what to do with the armies, and how to keep them interesting without completely rewriting the background of them(which is what it seems like has been done with Dark Eldar, in addition to having one sculptor doing almost the entire range by himself).

Now now, lets not exaggerate.. In order to rewrite the DE fluff you need to replace a whole *1* page since the extent of their "fluff" is a picture of the dark elf city from WFB with a new name and a page of writing which can be summarized as "We are eldar who likes slaves, male-thongs and spikes".. So not hard of a job to replace that stellar fluff

Yeah it sucks to play an army that no one buys.. but the sad reality is during a massive global recession its only logical GW would release armies that actually sell.. Im very surprised DE would be released at this time

You do realize that is the single worst summarization of a background piece since C.S. Goto, right?