Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Okay, i took the plunge. i purchased my second Medusa last night. both are going to need some work to finish. so
i thought that would give me some time to pick my fellow IG generals (or their foes!) brains.
i don't get the no indirect fire of a mortar, but that's the breaks. so what advice can you fine folks offer? obviously
it's similar to the Demolisher, but more fragile due to av12. do you screen it? seems like that could wind up giving your target cover too though.
i appreciate any input!

I don't really see how medusas have "tactics".

You put the tank on the field during deployment, point it at the enemy you want to make dead, and shoot until you get blown up. It's a little bit like tactics for ANY guard artillery, but without the caveat of it being out of LOS being preferable.

Bastion breacher shells is nasty and you'll hit even farther but you'll be praying on the scatter dice. Normal is alright I suppose. As said it is a AV12 demolisher with an extra feet. Makes it less of a target for meltas I suppose

I suggest putting a flamer on the front. That way if you lose your primary weapon you can just send it forward to tank shock or burn infantry. Choosing between bastion breachers and normal shells is not always an easy choice.

Give it the Bastion Breachers, a Hull-mounted Heavy Flamer, and then just cut corners a lot. Hell, I'll even include a diagram. The blob at the top is your opponent's anti-tank, the block with the green template on it is that juicy Landraider you need dead, and the block sitting behind the wall is your Medusa. The red lines are its firing arch, and the grey are its armor archs. See how the enemy's anti-tank can only see your front armor, but isn't in the frontal arch? That means you get a 3+ cover save instead of the normal 4+.

Ailaros wrote:I don't really see how medusas have "tactics".

You put the tank on the field during deployment, point it at the enemy you want to make dead, and shoot until you get blown up. It's a little bit like tactics for ANY guard artillery, but without the caveat of it being out of LOS being preferable.

You know i normally respect your opinion A-man. even when you're full of it. i'm really suprised you'd post something as "helpful" as that. thanks a ton!

To rest of you, thanks for the input.

alarmingrick wrote:You know i normally respect your opinion A-man. even when you're full of it. i'm really suprised you'd post something as "helpful" as that. thanks a ton!

Hey, just calling it like it is, man. Get bastion breacher shells if you want to exchange a large blast for an extra D6, and try to get some cover where you can. The medusa's use is pretty straightforward.

If there were some secret hidden pearl of the orient with regards to wisdom of medusa use in specific, I'd drop it on you like a fistful of cash in a money fight. I don't really know what else that can be said about a medusa compared to common-sense stuff with vehicles in general.

Don't take BB Shells. Small blast? No thanks.

If the enemy is heavily mech,I'd say take the BB shells, it's always worth it when youre bringing some fear into his vehicles. When the enemy has alot of infantry or horde like orks or nids, I'd always take the regular shells for practical purposes.
Now the deployment,I'd post some infantry at it's front, it always pays to have some sort of cover, the medusa is a glass cannon but when it hits, it always brings a smile to my face

It's a Medusa! An assault gun! It shoots through what you point it at (assuming the crew isn't drunk at the time, like many of my IG tankers tend to be.... ). After that it becomes a 'hide and take potshots' game.

mindfield wrote:If the enemy is heavily mech,I'd say take the BB shells, it's always worth it when youre bringing some fear into his vehicles. When the enemy has alot of infantry or horde like orks or nids, I'd always take the regular shells for practical purposes.
Now the deployment,I'd post some infantry at it's front, it always pays to have some sort of cover, the medusa is a glass cannon but when it hits, it always brings a smile to my face

Don't you run the risk of giving your target a cover as well?

Perhaps I am reading it wrong, but when the codex say "may take" the breacher shells, don't you still have the original ones? It doesn't say "replace"... So no particular disadvantage to taking it... Have to admit I was thinking of testing one out for my lads...

Yes, Bastion Breachers replace the standard cannon. A shame, otherwise the Medusa might just be the most versitile weapon in the Guard's arsenal.

Right, the codex says "may take bastion breacher shells", which means it still gets to keep it's old shells. However, simultaneously, the entry for the medusa says " A medusa armed with bastion breacher shells always fires with the following profile..." As such, you still get to keep them, but there is no longer the option to fire them.

Of course, there is almost no reason to ever take a medusa without bastion breacher shells. With one exception (terminators, or, I guess if you're facing off against a lot of ogryn), the basilisk does what a medusa does without bastion breacher shells either better or for cheaper. The only reason to take the medusa over other types of artillery is for anti-tank, which means the +D6 of the breacher shells.

They should have just upped the cost and given it to them by default with the option to throw away their good ammo for +5 points or something. It would end the confusion...

Ah, yes, GW's version of clear and easy to follow rules :-) Shame, I like the options thing, seems silly to remove it, but whatever...

So, we've got a 140 pt anti-vehicle platform. Sounds a little like a Vendetta (I always take HB sponsons). So what're the targets that a Medusa w/ BBs is better against?

AV14, maybe 13? Advantages also include AP1. Disadvantage includes lower side armor and open-topped.

I think a Vendetta is a better choice in general, but there are a few times when a Medusa would qualify:
-no more Fast Attack slots, either to other units or to resist squadroning yet more Vendettas
-you know for certain you're going against the high AV targets, and have no long-range options
-as "A-man" said, you want to hit terminators (or other 2+) or multi-wounds T5s without Eternal Warrior
-plan on getting a Medusa into cover (can't really do that with Vendettas), and take camo

As for tactics, I'd suggest getting cover if at all possible. When I ran one a couple times, it was a huge target, so being able to soak up more fire can also prove it to be a good bullet magnet. Sometimes (probably rarely) you can get the cannon of a Medusa to stick out through cover, so your opponent doesn't get it, but you do. This probably depends highly on your usual terrain.

My $0.02

I've never run more than two but I normally just put them down wherever there is room and then blast away at whatever I'm the most scared of.










Then again I also lose a lot.

I run a medusa, and it's a fairly big gamble. The pay off can be huge: a destroyed landraider on turn one. OTOH against armies like Tau (disruption pods) or anything horde/gunline (no AV to shoot) it struggles to accomplish much.

i'm like 40% convinced I'd do better with a vendetta. Maybe I'll try that out.

Polonius wrote:I run a medusa, and it's a fairly big gamble. The pay off can be huge: a destroyed landraider on turn one. OTOH against armies like Tau (disruption pods) or anything horde/gunline (no AV to shoot) it struggles to accomplish much.

i'm like 40% convinced I'd do better with a vendetta. Maybe I'll try that out.

See, i'm in the opposite position. i've run Vendettas, and never tried the Medusa. i have a feeling my Medusas might be collecting dust with my Salamanders.

As somebody pointed out, the medusa is the big winner against AV14, especially landraiders. The bummer is only one shot, and landraiders come to the IG, where we have plenty of BS4 melta. So... why worry that much about them?

Vendettas are good against a lot of stuff, and with a 50pt SWS also score!

The Medusa is a great addition to Parking Lot and Leafblower IG lists. It packs a mean punch - S10 AP2 Large Blast. That is huge! Taking the BB Shells means you get a measly Small Blast, which I find terrible.

It is used to take out anything, not just tanks. We have Melta Veterans for AV14 and Vendettas for AV12-13, but these give us that extra little close-range power to deter folks closing in, lest they get eaten up by them.

When paired with Chimeras to obscure the front facing of them (thus granting a 3+ cover save, most often), they aren't a liability at all. I have used them and when most opponents want to come to you, they are solid gold.

As Ailaros pointed out, other artillery handles any non-Bastion Breacher application better, except against 2+ or T5 multi-wound infantry. (Both of which are the main reason I prefer Plasma x4 in my CCS, but I digress)

Manticore dishes out much more S10 plates against vehicles and also toasts a good amount of infantry due to multiple templates, basilisk is cheaper and handles 3+. Both have better range.

In all, running it without the breachers doesn't make much sense to me. Maybe you really want the S10 large blast, but only have 135 instead of 160 for the Manticore?

To argue the other side of the coin for MNOP, you can point the Medusa at anything, and it'll die. Maybe it's not optimal, but it'll never be out of targets. The only downside in that case are short range. It's open-topped, but so are the other artillery choices. Maybe it's a "safe bet" against a completely unknown or widely varied metagame. . .

You run them with Manticores, though. Also, I tend to play for open metagames favoring MEQ and I bounce between the Medusa and Basilisk for 2000-2500pt games, where I play Mech Guard (Leafblower variants). The problem with BB shells is the size, not the punch. BS3 means a significant scatter and they miss way, way too often.

All in all, for open metagames, they are solid. For a MEQ and/or GEQ metagame, Bassies are fine usually. If you expect a lot of heavy armor or infantry closing into medium- and close-range, Medusa shine.

You know why you should be fine with the small blast template? If you scatter, and even a fraction of the template is on the vehicle your average penetration is still 12 (5+7). You can miss and still penetrate a Rhino, with AP1 no less. That gives the Medusa an effective accuracy of around 78% against Rhinos, with similar accuracy against larger targets where you have to get the center over the hull.

DarkHound wrote:You know why you should be fine with the small blast template? If you scatter, and even a fraction of the template is on the vehicle your average penetration is still 12 (5+7). You can miss and still penetrate a Rhino, with AP1 no less. That gives the Medusa an effective accuracy of around 78% against Rhinos, with similar accuracy against larger targets where you have to get the center over the hull.

I hadn't thought of that.

I'd like to note that you're still spending 140 points to bag a 50 point transport, though. I mean, a manticore is even better against rhinos (multiple shots, hits side armor, etc.), but then you're spending 160 to take down a 50 point vehicle.

I mean, the best weapon to use in this case is probably a titan, but that might absorb a few too many points to be able to build a balanced list...

Well, you do also have to remember that AV12 could also mean Hellhounds, trukks, Wave Serpents, Flacons, and Hammerheads.....Those are slightly more attractive target wise compared to a Rhino.

Comparing points like that is pointless. First off, there are six turns, so why expect a unit to make all of its points back in one shot? Second, it could be just as easily shooting at other guard artillery. 140 points Medusa takes down 160 in Manticore. So suddenly the gun is better? You shoot at what targets the enemy presents, so shooting at strawmen isn't exactly productive.

I think DarkHound's example makes a ponit; that against lighter targets, the Medusa is basically more accurate. Except for this, all artillery is exactly as accurate as the others. MNOP mentions blast size being a problem, but that doesn't matter *at all* against vehicles, since center hole is all that matters. Medusa actually increases its threat range with the small blast.

I think what I'm learning from this discussion is that if I were to use a Medusa, it would be after I had created the rest of my army and wanted artillery. At that point I'd ask myself what I needed most from my ordinance:

If I need general ant-infantry, and an not worried about AP2: go for a Basilisk, Manticore, or Colossus, depending on if you already have anti-cover covered.

If I need long range anti AV14: Medusa w/ BBs.

If I either know that I absolutely am going to shoot at terminators at 36" for most of my games, or if I have no glaring weaknesses and want a completely flexible option: the regular Medusa might be an option.

Again, Medusas benefit from always having a target. Their failings are: points, range, and not having indirect fire. Basilisk beats it as an all-rounder. It's less points, it takes out MEQs just as easily, has better range, and indirect fire gives it 2d6 pick one against vehicle side armor (I think this balances S10 against front decently). So if you take the Medusa (this is supposed to be a tactics thread after all), I'd say make sure you pay attention to it's threat range and line of sight during deployment. Try to make sure you know where the action will be, and that it gets its shots in. If possible, as I stated above, try and get cover for it. It'll usually be a fire magnet.

Not to mention hurling 5" rounds into an opposing parking lot. Chimeras are kind of narrow, and S5+2D6^1 Penetration ain't bad for the potential two extra.

Against a Land Raider the standard load is better than 4+ on 1D6 to penetrate.

Plus then you have the 5" round to bombard infantry if you run out of vehicles before you run out of Medusa.

It sounds like you have the options backwards, Nurglich. Standard loadout is the large blast, AP2. The upgrade makes it a small blast, but AP1 and 2d6 to pen. If you don't have it backwards, then I can't tell what you're trying to say.