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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Hey folks!

I used to play a Lelith-led wych cult (see my signature for some of my battle reports with them); they performed incredibly well for me. With the advent of the new codex came great disappointment for several reasons:

-Lelith get nerfed into the ground.
-Wyches lost their wych weapons
-Wyches lost their ability to take blasters (I was a big fan of two blasters per 5 wyches)
-My best anti-infantry (STR7 AP2 disintegrator blasts) got nerfed into the ground.

I reluctantly shelved the wych cult in favor of a new type of Dark Eldar - primarily shooting, with an assault counter-punch. Eventually I discovered how fantastic wyches with a haemonculi along to grant FNP was and fit it into all of my lists. However, the Dice Gods long ago decided that I was to be an assault army, and have cursed me with unnaturally low-rolling abilities for shooting at such a consistent rate that I even turned to specialized dice looking for statistical normalcy. I abandoned my Tau for assault Orks, eventually traded my Tau for Assault Necrons, and did very well with assault Dark Eldar.

Those two factors have made me reconsider how I play Dark Eldar; without the ability to rely on my ability to shoot things down in a shooting army, combined with the dawning realization of the power of Haemonculi-Wych synergy, I've come full circle back to my wych cult - albeit without Lelith at helm.

My 1,971 point Dark Eldar:

HQ1: 1x Haemonculi with 1x Liquifier and Crucible of Malediction
HQ2: 3x Haemonculi with 3x Liquifiers and 1x Shattershard

Troop1: 9x Wyches with a Hekatrix upgrade packing an agonizer; 9x Haywire Grenades // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Troop2: 9x Wyches with a Hekatrix upgrade packing an agonizer; 9x Haywire Grenades // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Troop3: 9x Wyches with a Hekatrix upgrade packing an agonizer; 9x Haywire Grenades // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Troop4: 9x Wyches with a Hekatrix upgrade packing an agonizer; 9x Haywire Grenades // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield


Elite1: 4x Kabalite Trueborn with 4x Blasters // Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield
Elite2: 4x Kabalite Trueborn with 4x Blasters // Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield
Elite3: 4x Kabalite Trueborn with 4x Blasters // Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield

Heavy Support1: Ravager with 3x Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Heavy Support2: Ravager with 3x Dark Lances, Flickerfield
Heavy Support3: Ravager with 3x Dark Lances, Flickerfield


In short, its my old Dark Eldar, with Trueborn blasters instead of warrior dark lances as elites. This list is unfortunately 2 troop choices less than my old one, but massive tweaking hasn't gotten me more than the ability to field a fifth one in exchange for stripping everything off of....almost everything.

I've lost the ability to have a 12" wych charge (so sad that they took it out of the codex), but in exchange have a *hugely* more survivable army with 5+ invulnerable saves on my vehicles, FNP from the start on my assault elements, and approximately equitable anti-tank to what I used to have.

I *really* like having identical units, which has screwed with my ability to do something with that extra five points. I don't even think its worth putting it on a haemonculi, since I don't anticipate them ever voluntarily joining in close-combat. I've never been keen on ablative wounds - I believe Dark Eldar should completely focus on killing power. In the old codex, wyches were ablative wounds to keep the agonizer alive, they could take two blasters in those five wyches...and adding more wyches didn't really get you anything extra. Here, kicking my wyches down to five apiece....still doesn't buy me the points to get another wych unit with an accompanying Haemonculi.

At any rate, comments and critiques are welcome.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2011/03/23 18:56:58


   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Florida

Thanks for posting your list. It closely resembles what I had for old DE with the exception of the venoms. I did miss how cheap lelith was.

I understand the need for keeping same units as DE work well with redundancy in mind. I agree you need FNP for the wyches especially with explosion results that used to take out 50-75% of the squads. I want to ask you a few things and let me know your thoughts.

I have been playing around with lists one that has trueborn and another that has bloodbrides. Both are real nice but the elites slot has plenty of competition.

I have also thought about wracks since they come with mass poisoned attacks and have T4 and FNP automatic and with the extra heamy grants you FC. you can also add the liquifier to the squad upgrade and double up on templates.


Comparing tournament records is another form of e-peen measuring.
 
   
Made in us
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





Incinerating your hopes

I find it interesting that you don't take wych weapons. Personally, 28 wyches seems a bit light for 2k. However, I'm sure you know how to use them. Is this the least amount of assaulting bodies you've taken in a wych list?

W/L/D
2/0/0
W/L/D
2/0/0 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




How does this list deal with infantry heavy lists?
Are 13 DL and 9 Blasters enough ranged anti-tank?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/18 05:08:35


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Florida

28 wyches with FNP should hold up fine.

Hordes are countered by Wyches and templates by the heamonculi. Also dont forget the 36 poison attacks thrown out by the venoms.

Comparing tournament records is another form of e-peen measuring.
 
   
Made in us
Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control





Honestly, I don't like it one bit. The assault element is pretty weak. It's got speed, but is really fragile and I fail to see where the hitting power comes from. It can crack open a Leafblower list for sure if it gets first turn.

That being said, Dash knows what he's doing so I'm sure he can make it work. I think your average player has a tough time winning with this thing.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

@thehod: You're welcome! Its taken me a while to come around full circle, but I realize how much I am *not* meant to play a shooty army, which is why I'll never pick up IG. You're not the only one who has had words with me about wracks. STR5 on the charge, double liquifiers from the transport....*ponders* if you have two sets of poisoned weapons to wound on 4+, and you're STR5, do you wound T3 on a 2+, or still at a 4+? Because my Mad Dok has Dok's Tools and even at STR5 still wounds on a 4+, and the extra strength gives rerolls. The biggest reason I've gone with wyches is because of the close combat 4++/4+ instead of the 6+/4+. With that said, I'm not....opposed...to the idea of wracks, but I'm just not sold on their utility in close combat exceeding that of wyches; the invul save is a big thing for keeping that agonizer swinging. More contemplation is required about wracks. I can *see* their use, just not a distinctive advantage over wracks.

@Grim Smasha: I usually have a Hydra Gauntlet in there, but I just couldn't come up with the extra 40 points to get them in there. I suppose I could pare off one wych from each squad and replace it with a hydra gauntlet. Which is worth more - another wych or a bonus D6 attacks per round on one of my wyches? I might be tempted to say the Hydra Gauntlet. They *were* in my list last night, and I think I took them out when I was trying to fit in another wych squad (with 5 each), and couldn't do it, and didn't bother putting it back in there. I *am* uncomfortable having 4 troop choices when I've always had 5 or 6.

@canthatenuff: With Infantry heavy lists - I have fast assault. Check out some of my DE battle reports. This has never been a "smash my army into your army" kind of army, but more of a "Smash all my wyches into one or two pieces of your army and eat them, then weather the retaliation before smashing another piece of it" kind of army. Whether 13 Dark Lances and 9 blasters are enough ranged anti-tank....they're going to have to be. My previous DE army was ALL ranged anti-tank, and I have the mysterious ability to consistently fail with it. Like 2/26 hits per turn. My last tournament in Orlando against a Mech IG opponent, I went first and despite him having poor target priorities such that my anti-tank pretty much all lived for the whole game, I didn't kill a single vehicle until turn 5 in a pitched battle game. I've got haywire grenades to supplement my anti-tank, and FNP to help survive the results.

@Griever: The "hitting" power is, and always has been in the agonizers. Remember that it isn't going to be 7 wyches vs 10 marines, or 7 wyches vs. 10 khorne berzerkers....its going to be 14-21 wyches vs. each of those, with 2-3 power weapons swinging first, and invul/FNP where applicable to keep me swinging through consecutive rounds.

   
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Latest Wrack in the Pits




Decatur, TN

Wracks are only str 4 on the charge assuming they have 2 pain tokens.

But poison attacks wounding on 4s always wound on 4 regardless of str.

Learning 7th edition to prove that DE still rule the roost!
 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





wileythenord wrote:Wracks are only str 4 on the charge assuming they have 2 pain tokens.

But poison attacks wounding on 4s always wound on 4 regardless of str.


And when the strenght matches the Toughness (Strenght 4 against toughness 4) you get a reroll-to hit with poisonweapons.
   
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shogun wrote:
wileythenord wrote:Wracks are only str 4 on the charge assuming they have 2 pain tokens.

But poison attacks wounding on 4s always wound on 4 regardless of str.


And when the strenght matches the Toughness (Strenght 4 against toughness 4) you get a reroll-to hit with poisonweapons.


Pretty sure it's to wound.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Dashofpepper wrote:
and have cursed me with unnaturally low-rolling abilities for shooting at such a consistent rate that I even turned to specialized dice looking for statistical normalcy.


I feel your pain here. I tend to roll below average regardless of shooting or assault 8 out of 10 games. My response? design my army to roll large amounts of dice so even my below average dice still do enough damage. Thus I run 8 or 9 man wrack squads and 9 wyches along with a big pack of beasts. It is the real reason why I like the beasts so much when you throw over 80 dice you are bound to hurt something.

The key to wracks is all about who you assault. against anything with more than 1 or 2 power weapons you are in trouble. Additionally with the lack of grenades assaulting into cover can suck. However I run my wracks with a haemi. I also include a liquifier on the haemi and the wracks. This allows me to soften up (pardon the pun here) the enemy when assaulting and it is especially important when assaulting into cover. When I manage to roll a couple of low AP on the liquifiers look out!! anything other than Storm shields are in trouble.

Now I am not a shy person and play very aggressively I have caught termies in the open and FC them with wracks and beat their faces in. Of course that was a sacrificial charge that turned into a win and I do not advise doing it on a regular basis but 21 WS4 4+ poison with reroll and 6 WS4 2+ poison with reroll is pretty decent despite not being power weapons. Sometimes I do give an acolyst an agonizer but I am lucky to do one wound in 4 rounds of combat the way I roll them.

Try a wrack squad or two, I think that they would help give you some guaranteed T4 resilience that the wyches do not have.

I would also suggest finding some points for grisly trophies. I cannot tell you how many times my wyches have lost by 1 and ran. The rerolls are gold and well worth the 5 points IMHO despite the whole investing points in paper airplanes argument.

My lists and some BR's are on my blog in my signature for an idea how the wracks have performed for me.

http://boltersnbeer.blogspot.com

"As a rule of thumb, If you find yourself saying "Well it doesn't say I can't do this in the rules!" you are probably bending the rules at best and at worst cheating completely"
Jervis Johnson (forward to Warhammer Ancient Battles) 
   
Made in nl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Griever wrote:
shogun wrote:
wileythenord wrote:Wracks are only str 4 on the charge assuming they have 2 pain tokens.

But poison attacks wounding on 4s always wound on 4 regardless of str.


And when the strenght matches the Toughness (Strenght 4 against toughness 4) you get a reroll-to hit with poisonweapons.


Pretty sure it's to wound.


sorry..I did mean to say: to wound...
   
Made in us
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer



Alabama

@Dash - That could definately work, so long as, like you said, you assault 1 squad with 2 or 3 of your wych squads. Otherwise, you'll just be tarpitting as normal with them. Wyches don't seem to pack as much punch any more.

I run a very similar list to the one that you had posted around here before with a couple of variations that I've had a lot of success with, but my dice tend to follow the percentages of what should actually hit with a few rolls up and down.

The only thing I don't like about the list is so many points in the HQ slot. I try to be a minimalist when it comes to HQ's.

One thing you may could do, and not detract from your current list (by too much?), is drop 1 Haemy w/ liquifier (60) and 1 wych squad(189), and replace it with 2x squads of 5x warriors, 1 blaster in a venom w/ extra spl. cannon. It would give you an extra troop choice and another target. The extra 5 points you had left should cover the 1 point difference if I did my math right. The warrior boat could fulfull roughly the same roll as a 3rd assaulting wych squad, except you would be shooting 12 spl. cannons and a blaster prior to the wyches assault (depending on movement obviously) and potentially another 8 spl. rifle shots if within range. Just a variation idea anyway if you're really itching about having another troop in the army.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

ThePhish wrote:@Dash - That could definately work, so long as, like you said, you assault 1 squad with 2 or 3 of your wych squads. Otherwise, you'll just be tarpitting as normal with them. Wyches don't seem to pack as much punch any more.

I run a very similar list to the one that you had posted around here before with a couple of variations that I've had a lot of success with, but my dice tend to follow the percentages of what should actually hit with a few rolls up and down.

The only thing I don't like about the list is so many points in the HQ slot. I try to be a minimalist when it comes to HQ's.

One thing you may could do, and not detract from your current list (by too much?), is drop 1 Haemy w/ liquifier (60) and 1 wych squad(189), and replace it with 2x squads of 5x warriors, 1 blaster in a venom w/ extra spl. cannon. It would give you an extra troop choice and another target. The extra 5 points you had left should cover the 1 point difference if I did my math right. The warrior boat could fulfull roughly the same roll as a 3rd assaulting wych squad, except you would be shooting 12 spl. cannons and a blaster prior to the wyches assault (depending on movement obviously) and potentially another 8 spl. rifle shots if within range. Just a variation idea anyway if you're really itching about having another troop in the army.


ThePhish - the problem with that is that it involves more shooting. I bet that *statistically* I can build some pretty damn good lists. In reality, my attempts at shooting armies are disappointments. My orks have 5-ork Loota squads as potential gambles; I don't beef them up to 15 because I can't roll well. Venoms should be landing 9 hits and 4-5 wounds. While I occasionally have outliers (5-7 wounds), my typical performance is 0-3.

   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

A wych cult, with only basic wyches?
C'mon dash, you can theme it a little more than that lol.

Granted it will lose alot of its ability to win, but its nice to see a themed army.
Also, your not one to turn down a challenge either.

Either way though, list looks pretty nice.
Trueborn really do stack the killing power with thier venoms.

Just a side note though, but in essence you want those pain tokens and quickly.
As soon as the wyches gain FC they double thier use.
Doesent fit your theme and may drag a bit, but have you thought about a chronos simply to boost the core of the army?


Also, another little niggle, but skinmen dont have fleet, which really does slow you down.
However, i guess its worth trading speed for defence and a quick boost.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

۞ Jack ۞ wrote:A wych cult, with only basic wyches?
C'mon dash, you can theme it a little more than that lol.

Granted it will lose alot of its ability to win, but its nice to see a themed army.
Also, your not one to turn down a challenge either.

Either way though, list looks pretty nice.
Trueborn really do stack the killing power with thier venoms.

Just a side note though, but in essence you want those pain tokens and quickly.
As soon as the wyches gain FC they double thier use.
Doesent fit your theme and may drag a bit, but have you thought about a chronos simply to boost the core of the army?


Also, another little niggle, but skinmen dont have fleet, which really does slow you down.
However, i guess its worth trading speed for defence and a quick boost.


1. Theme - this *is* a themed list. Its a wych cult. I don't like complex or complicated units; my DE style has always been to have identical everything for simplicity sake. I don't have to track which wyches have which upgraded or wargear, there's nothing complicated.....and simplicity itself is a powerful strategic tool.

2. I firmly believe that the core of any mechanized DE army starts with triple ravagers. I would consider a Cronos in a WWP list, but....I already have all these models. =D And it wouldn't fit in a mechanized list.

3. skinmen don't have fleet? I'm not sure what you're referring to? My Haemonculi? Its the only thing in my list that doesn't have fleet, but I was clear in my OP that the haemonculi don't join the wyches in close combat, or even disembark as part of them. Ever.

   
Made in us
Sybarite Swinging an Agonizer



Alabama

Dashofpepper wrote:
ThePhish - the problem with that is that it involves more shooting. I bet that *statistically* I can build some pretty damn good lists. In reality, my attempts at shooting armies are disappointments. My orks have 5-ork Loota squads as potential gambles; I don't beef them up to 15 because I can't roll well. Venoms should be landing 9 hits and 4-5 wounds. While I occasionally have outliers (5-7 wounds), my typical performance is 0-3.


Best to stick with the wyches then even though *cough* the rolls are the same *cough*, but don't tell the dice gods that .

side note: Counter to a lot of arguments I've seen "for" wracks as a cc option, I personally think they suck. No fleet, no nades, no option to make them a threat to vehicles, and they have to carry the Haemy into cc prior to killing something to "earn" their 2nd PT. Maybe I just don't play enough people that leave troops hanging around out of cover to be assaulted, but I've not faired well with them.

   
Made in ca
Angered Reaver Arena Champion






I really don't believe you about the dice rolls, but that's cool. Its probably just a confirmation bias, but we all suffer from that.

In any case, I think your list is great. One place you might find points is in the flickerfields on the raiders. I found that using raiders for wychs they were normally moving flat out until you deployed cargo anyways, at which point the raider not having a 5+ wasn't such a big deal anyways. Taking flickers on those raiders just for hydras (if that was your though) probably is not necessary. So if you were looking for points for anything, that would be a place to start. As it is the list looks solid.

Sangfroid Marines 5000 pts
Wych Cult 2000
Tau 2000 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut






I really think this list would benefit from having Duke. On his own he's fairly beefy in CC, would give you that 2nd roll on the chart for your wyches and adds a blast pistol. Also your lack of backfield troop scoring worries me. I understand you're a very aggressive player but being able to contest midfield with shooting can be valuable as well. Also I really think you're overspending to get those agonizers into what really is a mediocre CC unit in the wyches, even with fnp. I do agree with you that Wracks wouldn't fit into your list, most especially now that there are armies with full power weapons and having a CC unit rely entirely on fnp will be unwise in the coming days as people break out with grey knights in tournaments again.

That said here's what I would do while keeping most of your list at least similar, but in my opinion making it deeper tactically and more effective.

HQ1: Duke Sliscus
HQ2: 3x Haemonculi with 3x Liquifiers, 3x Venom Blades

Troop1: 8x Wyches; 8x Haywire Grenades, 1 Hydra Gauntlet // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Troop2: 8x Wyches; 8x Haywire Grenades, 1 Hydra Gauntlet // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Troop3: 8x Wyches; 8x Haywire Grenades, 1 Hydra Gauntlet // Raider, Dark Lance, Flickerfield
Troop4: 10x Warriors; Dark Lance // Raider, Flickerfield
Troop5: 10x Warriors; Dark Lance // Raider, Flickerfield

Elite1: 3x Kabalite Trueborn with 3x Blasters // Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield
Elite2: 3x Kabalite Trueborn with 3x Blasters // Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield
Elite3: 3x Kabalite Trueborn with 3x Blasters // Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield

Heavy Support1: Ravager with 3x Dark Lances
Heavy Support2: Ravager with 3x Dark Lances
Heavy Support3: Ravager with 3x Dark Lances

There's a couple ways to play the warriors but I think it would be best to start them shooting turn 1 as I understand you've been having a great deal of trouble against mech IG and adding a few more darklight weapons while only losing a handful of haywire grenades. I gave the haemonculi venom blades as they really ought to join your wyches in CC because I really don't know what you're going after that's more than 44" away that you should be assaulting anyway (I'm assuming 24"+12"+2"+6" for 2 turns of movement, and even if you're shooting the lances from the raiders that's still ~32" of turn 2 assault goodness).

The 2 warrior raiders are to give cover as much as possible to the ravagers while keeping their primary target open for fire. Also with all those raiders and venoms in your opponents face I really don't know why you would bother with the flickerfield on the ravagers to begin with but if you really wanted them back you could drop a wych from each squad and have them.

Duke would start with a warrior squad and would hop in with wyches after turn 1 to get a little more oomph in CC as well as a shadowfield and a blast pistol so he could potentially run off and smack down a combat squad or something similar on his own. If you're trying to keep it themed solely around wyches then I'm not sure what you could do but I think this list is overall stronger.

 
   
Made in ca
Wicked Wych With a Whip






You know what I like? Webway Portals.

Get an Archon in a Venom/Raider with some Incubi, deploy, fly up 12", jump the Archon out and drop the portal in the right place, and you can bring all your Wyches on the board that way, often into assault range.

Of course, you gotta get the portal out Turn 1 and then wait for reserve rolls, but it's worked pretty well for me.

Saves money on Raiders, so you can buy other things, like Hellions, which I love and also can come through the portal!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/18 22:44:25


   
Made in ca
Angered Reaver Arena Champion






Dracos wrote:I really don't believe you about the dice rolls, but that's cool. Its probably just a confirmation bias, but we all suffer from that.

In any case, I think your list is great. One place you might find points is in the flickerfields on the raiders. I found that using raiders for wychs they were normally moving flat out until you deployed cargo anyways, at which point the raider not having a 5+ wasn't such a big deal anyways. Taking flickers on those raiders just for hydras (if that was your though) probably is not necessary. So if you were looking for points for anything, that would be a place to start. As it is the list looks solid.


Come to think of it, I would say drop flickers on the raiders for an extra wych in each raider. I think that is really the only way to make the list stronger.

Sangfroid Marines 5000 pts
Wych Cult 2000
Tau 2000 
   
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Drew_Riggio




Russia

Dash - why its 2k list? I just calculated and see only 1794pts.
Where 206 unspent points?
Its 80+195 for HQ, 146x3 for Elite, 184x4 for Troops and 115x3 for Heavy = 1794pts in overall

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/03/19 04:20:54


are writer, not reader
FB DE 1-0-0 | 1-1-0 
   
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Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

@penek: I'm pretty sure I did the math right. Could someone else double check my points?

@thread in general: I'm definitely leaning against wracks the more I think about them. Not having fleet is a killer - so is having to leave the haemonculi with them to get Furious Charge. Not to mention the lack of grenades; something wyches come with standard now.

@Dracos: I'm iffy on the flicker fields. I never had them before (since the codex didn't have them) but did alright. I just see them as giving me +33% vehicles for 10 points per vehicle. I have 10 vehicles in this list, but for 100 points....I've literally got +3 vehicles from the flickerfields.

@MrDrumMachine: Warriors in raiders? Why? Dark Lances mean static platforms, and I had a tough enough issue in the old codex using them as elites to my troop wyches in getting clear fields of fire. Do I take a pot shot at something that gets cover, or not fire for a turn to maneuver to a possibly better location? I'll definitely *not* get sold on warriors with a lance in raiders, nor on Duke Sliscus, whom I think is a poor HQ selection, nor on Venom blades on Haemonculi - who should never be in close combat.....and both the crucible and the shattershard are important to me in a TAC list - not to mention that I'm shifting away from a shooting list on purpose. My shooting *is* unforgivable.

@Foo: An archon in a raider with Incubi deploying a WWP is a shot in the dark against solid enemy lists - who can kill the raider and everything inside of it in one round of shooting if the DE don't go first. I'm not worried about saving money on raiders; I have 12-13 of the old ones and 4-5 of the new ones sitting around in boxes....and a WWP portal list isn't attractive to me personally. I *like* being fast.

@Dracos again: Dropping flickerfields for +1 wych...*ponders* I'm going to have to think about that. Also, in terms of confirmation bias, you're going to have to believe me. Its not that I roll better in assault than in shooting, its that I always roll poorly, and I need to add as many dice as possible. I tried a shooting approach to that, but the problem is that having 16 splinter cannons doesn't help against mechanized lists if you can't open the transports up with your anti-tank, which has always been my biggest issue.

@Phish: No fleet and no grenades. I think you've convinced me not to take wracks. One of my earlier points was addressed your way, I just hadn't gotten down this far yet.

   
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Jacksonville, NC

I'd almost recommend the duke. Givin all those wyches YOUR choice of drug could be nifty! Plus hes pretty killy himself

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Fighter Ace





I know the feeling on bad rolls. I take Multi-Melta heavy Space Marines where I've gone 4 turns without killing a vehicle. Unfortunate. Or I cover my entire Blood Angels army under Shield, and fail every cover save that turn.

But! Your list takes precedence over luck woes. Here's what I think.

4 Wych squads will mess up non CC, exposed armies. They're tough to kill in CC, with a good invul save and FNP. But, that's not where your issues are going to come from. Heavy Mech such as Razorback, Predator, or Chimera spam will give you issues as they pop your raiders then shoot your wyches when their only save left is FNP (and not even that with S6!). Also, heavy assault enemies that can pop your vehicles (ie: BlAngels with with ranged support, Nids with Hive Guard and Devourers) will do the same, killling vehicles then shooting/assaulting with torrents of firepower. When you are not in CC, in the open, wyches die as easy as Guardsmen.

And you can really only kill 6 vehicles a turn.... WITH perfect luck, and from close range (Blasters). That's not going to give you a durable army against mech. Not when Heavy Flamers and Multilasers can kill your vehicles.

Now, Wyches may be more durable in CC than Wracks in most cases, for sure. Wracks don't even benefit from Furious charge that much, so more than 1 pain token is kind of pointless. What Wracks have is T4 (thereby making them not lose FNP to Autocannons or Multilasers) and always wounding on 4s against everything (while Wyches are, sadly, only S3).

What I imagine happening in a tournament with this army is Mech Spam throwing combat squads in front of you that die by their next shooting phase. Then Wyches eat bolters.

The above are major issues in a Wych army. You are a S3, T3 assault army. Whaaaat? You need a way to counteract that weakness. Wracks, wracks can survive better outside of CC due to T4, and often do even in CC because T4 reduces the amount of wounds they take in the first place. Plus, they start with Pain Tokens so you don't need Haemonculi, and can spend points on a more killy CC HQ, such as an Archon, or just a cheap HQ so you can buy other things. Like Fast Attack. Which is awesome.

Honestly.... if you want a Wych Cult, you are going to need a unit that can beat up enemy nasty assault units. That means Beasts, Grotesques, or Incubi. You are also going to need more fast antimech so your Wyches can quickly and consistently get into CC. That means Scourges, Reavers, or min sized Warrior squads with Blasters and Blast Pistols.

I don't really have a list solution yet as I'm just beginning looking at the Codex, but those are my worries and thoughts. Feel free to address them if you agree.

Started wargaming with heroscape. Who says kids can't be generals?

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In Soviet Russia.... you go to Gulag.
 
   
Made in ru
Drew_Riggio




Russia

@Dashofpepper
its for sure not 1995, because Wych list that i run accurate 1997pts, but i use fully loaded 3 VRB, 4x7 Wyches with same load-out as you, 2x4 Trueborn in Venoms+ 4 blasters and Vect. - And only VRB in my list cost 205 each.
Here cost of what you posted straight from codex

Homies 4x50+liquifiers 4*10+15+20(shattershard and crucible) = 275

3*12(Truborn)+3*15(blasters)+55+10(venom with second cannon (maybe you forgot that shields on it built-in?)) = 146
3*12(Truborn)+3*15(blasters)+55+10(venom with second cannon) = 146
3*12(Truborn)+3*15(blasters)+55+10(venom with second cannon) = 146

7*10(wyches)+7*2(haywire)+10+20(hecatrix upgr+agonizer)+60+10(raider+flicker) = 184
7*10(wyches)+7*2(haywire)+10+20(hecatrix upgr+agonizer)+60+10(raider+flicker) = 184
7*10(wyches)+7*2(haywire)+10+20(hecatrix upgr+agonizer)+60+10(raider+flicker) = 184
7*10(wyches)+7*2(haywire)+10+20(hecatrix upgr+agonizer)+60+10(raider+flicker) = 184

Rv 105+10
Rv 105+10
Rv 105+10
= 1794

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/03/20 08:08:13


are writer, not reader
FB DE 1-0-0 | 1-1-0 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User





I'm not as good as you guys at Dark Eldar. But it seems clear to me that another wych is always better then a hydra-gauntlet unless your unit is maxed. Why roll a d6 when you can for sure get 3 attacks. And have another wound for the unit. Or another grenade etc. Doesn't make sense to me.
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





A cornfield somewhere in Iowa

You could add another unit of wychs. You sill would have a few points for tweeking some units.

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Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration





Connecticut, USA

I like it Dash, good to see you playing Wych Cult again, I love it in this edition, In my list I do not run Trueborn, I am waiting till the Venoms get released, then at 1,500 points I should have about 27 Wyches and 12 or so Trueborn.

From my experience Mech has not been in issue, I actually tabled a very good Mech IG player at the last tournament I used my DE in. You may not be able to kill alot of tanks every turn but you can reliably stun them, maybe its just my dice but I was able to keep his LRBT out of action till turn 3, when my wyches w/ haywires blew it up.

Lastly, I think Wracks are more like Bubblewrap for Haemos in WWP lists, even with poisoning on 4+ claws all around, they dont perform what Wyches can't do. Wyches can take all these toys, have invul saves which are much more helpful in this edition and Wyches have drugs! It's a no brainier for me. . .plus their models are sweeeet.

Tell me how you work out with no Wych Weapons, seems like an interesting risk, however dropping flickerfield might be dangerous, I played against speed freaks the other day (Tabled therm), and Flickerfields saved my raiders 2/3 times, probably just my dice, but still if your rollings good, they are awesome.
   
Made in ru
Drew_Riggio




Russia

Tried play today vs necrons with list like yours but expanded to 2k
it was Duke (lots of Wyches need good dope for sure, and i still rolled 2+3), Homies - liquifiers, shattershard, cruicible (not tried to make list anti-necron), 4x7 Wyches in Raiders (FF) with grenades, gauntlets and hecatrix with agonizer, 3 ravagers with ff, 2x4 trueborns with blasters in venom with additional cannon, 4 truborns with 2 blasters and 2 cannons (duke unit) in venom like other two. and 3 ravagers with FF.
I played first, and on my turn i got immobilized and weapon destroyed on monolith and like half of his necrons with their faces on the floor. (and i rolled really bad in hth with wyches - roll 1 for both gauntlets that was in hth)
i still won by phasing him out.

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